**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 09 02:59:57 2010 Jan 09 02:59:59 no such luck for regular cell customers. although it would be nice. Jan 09 03:00:58 jauderho: yeah that would be nice Jan 09 03:01:14 lol Jan 09 03:01:29 was looking for internet access at the airport and not wanting to pay the ridiculous fees Jan 09 03:01:42 i used to be able to hop on at the united red carpet lounge Jan 09 03:01:50 but it seems to have gone pay only too Jan 09 03:01:55 bummer. Jan 09 03:02:38 another interesting thing I noticed was that when in a different country, the sprint label was replaces with "International" Jan 09 03:03:56 s/replaces/replaced/ Jan 09 03:03:56 jauderho meant: another interesting thing I noticed was that when in a different country, the sprint label was replaced with "International" Jan 09 03:03:58 PuffTheMagic: in ES1.1 this is a straight port Jan 09 03:03:59 oil: List of Everything now works again with Palm feeds Jan 09 03:04:44 Also, does anyone know where the icon for each app is kept? Jan 09 03:04:50 PuffTheMagic: performance won't be /great/, but it should be much better than cpu Jan 09 03:05:00 My Contacts app seems to have lost its icon Jan 09 03:05:12 jauderho: listed in appinfo.json Jan 09 03:05:28 maybe im not understanding C Jan 09 03:05:40 I don't suppose someone could send me a copy of that icon? Jan 09 03:08:00 which part ? Jan 09 03:08:22 sorry - i should have prefaced that with atlanta: which part of c don't you understand ? Jan 09 03:08:32 bpadalino: like i see this Jan 09 03:08:32 int key_up; Jan 09 03:08:39 but i dont see where they set key_up Jan 09 03:08:49 or maybe im looking in the wrong file Jan 09 03:08:54 oh .. yeah possibly .. Jan 09 03:08:57 what's the scope of key_up ? Jan 09 03:09:02 global or local ? Jan 09 03:09:38 atlanta: look for an extern in a .h file included by that file, and accessing key_up in other .c files Jan 09 03:10:02 rwhitby: oh i seen that extern let me open that file again Jan 09 03:10:21 extern would do it Jan 09 03:10:45 rwhitby: that one I don't have a larger, one could be made... I'll think about it still watching scrubs. Jan 09 03:11:39 Templarian: we need one for the banner at SCALE Jan 09 03:11:59 hey rwhitby found the Jan 09 03:12:07 PuffTheMagic: i take back what i said before, i need to construct 1 array for the vertex shader, even if you use 1.1 Jan 09 03:12:07 Templarian: SVG of Tux is at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tux.svg Jan 09 03:12:10 extern int key_up; Jan 09 03:12:28 atlanta: then grep for key_up in the other .c files Jan 09 03:12:36 {"key_up",&key_up, KEY_UPARROW}, Jan 09 03:12:38 oh ok Jan 09 03:12:39 gotcha Jan 09 03:12:39 cause it can be used in any file that includes that header Jan 09 03:13:04 So does anyone know what is causing the game crashes? Jan 09 03:13:06 rwhitby: ok so its not set in just one file Jan 09 03:13:07 BIAW - gotta make a phone call Jan 09 03:13:20 and since I can't have phone and data at once ... Jan 09 03:13:31 ^^Wi-Fi my friend Jan 09 03:13:44 rwhitby: or where would i change the ascii value Jan 09 03:14:19 atlanta: look for #define KEY_UPARROW somewhere Jan 09 03:14:24 probably in a .h file Jan 09 03:14:48 atlanta: you're working on scummvm keybindings? Jan 09 03:15:14 rwhitby: learning from doom Jan 09 03:15:19 then gonna work on scummvm Jan 09 03:15:32 rwhitby: you the man i found it #define KEY_UPARROW Jan 09 03:15:43 #define KEY_UPARROW 0xad Jan 09 03:16:25 rwhitby: I have an idea. Jan 09 03:16:34 look out Jan 09 03:16:44 ;-) Jan 09 03:16:50 rwhitby: Well.. Follow me. Jan 09 03:17:46 rwhitby: Step 1) User submits patch via my form. Which sets it to status 0 in my database. Jan 09 03:18:10 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.jiyer.appscoop Jan 09 03:18:15 isnt there a page on the wiki with all the ascii key codes Jan 09 03:18:24 rwhitby: Step 2) I (or any one else with password access) logs into admin panel and views the "NEW Submissions" (anything set to 0). Jan 09 03:18:47 Step 3) I view the details of a patch and decides its good and ready to go. Jan 09 03:18:58 And now for the IDEA part Jan 09 03:19:40 Step 4) I click "Accept" (after making any changes) and it would spit the makefile, patch file, etc out to a directory on my server. And set the status to "1". Jan 09 03:20:01 Step 5) Build script picks up these makefiles and builds them.. Jan 09 03:20:29 HOW the build script gets them is unknown... Either grab them from my server via an XML? rsync? ? Jan 09 03:20:35 interesting whitby Jan 09 03:20:40 rwhitby: where does that catalog come from Jan 09 03:20:40 ? Jan 09 03:21:11 rwhitby: Now is when you fill in any ideas.. etc. Jan 09 03:24:02 OMFG)RZ Jan 09 03:24:08 I just got invited to google voice. Jan 09 03:24:11 hawtness Jan 09 03:24:22 VisualVoicemail here I come! Jan 09 03:25:00 atlanta: http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feed Jan 09 03:25:41 thanks Jan 09 03:25:44 dBsooner: why doesn't your server just commit them into the git repo and push Jan 09 03:26:05 because I would still have to cerate the build script Jan 09 03:26:12 I suppose I could commit that side too Jan 09 03:26:28 and I still would have to get the proper version tag from gitorious to place in the makefile Jan 09 03:26:33 dBsooner: i.e. your server is just an automated version of you, and nothing else changes Jan 09 03:27:02 Yeah, the only hard part is getting the proper version tag from gitorious Jan 09 03:27:16 But, yeah, that could work. Jan 09 03:30:54 does the open source account automatically get into the web distrubtion Jan 09 03:30:54 ? Jan 09 03:41:49 i am amazed the number of people who complain on palm's facebook posts .. Jan 09 03:42:02 and basically tell palm they are idiots, jerks and the like Jan 09 03:42:18 bpadalino: amazed, but not surprised, yes? :) Jan 09 03:42:36 zsoc, i am not so sure .. why bother being 'fans' of palm when you hate them ? Jan 09 03:43:00 some of these people feel like the pre is an inferior product .. should have never been released .. etc, etc Jan 09 03:43:06 it's somewhat crazy Jan 09 03:43:14 lol Jan 09 03:43:25 It's the internet, people show their true colors, and people are troubled. Jan 09 03:43:37 makes me laugh at how people can be so ignorant. Jan 09 03:45:02 a lot of them are "F YOU PALM!! WHEN CAN I BUY IT IN SINGAPORE?!" Jan 09 03:45:13 does that type of sentence even make sense ? Jan 09 03:45:21 i hate you, when can i give you my money Jan 09 03:46:13 i played with a bunch of android devices tonight and really think i am getting too used to the webos experience .. Jan 09 03:47:52 anyone have any plans for the weekend ? Jan 09 03:48:01 rip apart more 3d games you purchase ? Jan 09 03:48:08 fix terminal and make it SDL instead of NPAPI ? Jan 09 03:50:57 unfortunately for me it looks like i am running simulations and hoping to find a bug which may or may not exist :( Jan 09 03:51:20 bpadalino : what andriod did u play with? Jan 09 03:51:35 motorola droid and htc droid eris - both at a vzw store Jan 09 03:51:39 bpadalino: reunion with an old friend. Jan 09 03:51:45 ird, sounds fun Jan 09 03:51:59 ahh have u played with samsung moment at all? Jan 09 03:52:06 ird, how long has it been since you've seen them ? Jan 09 03:52:12 a few years Jan 09 03:52:28 JMyaDaGod, my friend has one .. i've seen it - but i have not played around with it .. i think it's just standard android ui, right ? Jan 09 03:52:40 OLED screen is nice to look at Jan 09 03:52:52 bpadalino: but I have to suffer through a chick flick. Jan 09 03:52:54 ird, very nice! what brought up the reunion ? Jan 09 03:52:58 which one ? Jan 09 03:52:58 i think.... the guy at sprint store swears his is the best phone on sprint wanted to try one out Jan 09 03:53:29 bpadalino: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1078588/ Jan 09 03:53:49 JMyaDaGod, go for it .. i am too used to multitouch on the pre and universal search to really have android be useful to me without thinking about it :( Jan 09 03:53:51 bpadalino: facebook... sms.. etc Jan 09 03:54:04 ird, does the movie theater sell booze? :) Jan 09 03:54:32 that one looks pretty depressing .. since the girl was born to basically be organs for her sister, right ? Jan 09 03:54:34 yea i love my pre wouldnt give it up for anything besides a pre plus but as a 2nd phone i was looking into andriods Jan 09 03:54:35 they're building one that does.. Jan 09 03:54:53 bpadalino: i'm reconstructing display lists into vertex arrays, over and over and over, in as many GL examples as I can find, until my head explodes (or I'm comfortable porting GL to GLES), and then after that, I'm constructing vertex arrays into vertex buffer objects (for super ultra performance) Jan 09 03:55:07 rwhitby: I know, I was watching scrubs. Jan 09 03:55:17 JMyaDaGod: I'm going to warn you, the samsung moment is _way_ underpowered. sluggish as heck imo Jan 09 03:55:28 a friend of mine saw "Precious" i think it's called .. cried/sobbed .. was depressing .. Jan 09 03:55:42 if anything i would take it back lol gotta love the 30 day return policy Jan 09 03:55:57 I was hoping CES would bring something new doesnt look like it Jan 09 03:56:20 Like a Tegra 2 phone... that would be cool. Jan 09 03:56:26 i am very glad with the 1.3.5 update ... i think a lot of stuff is so much smoother and the general response of the pre is significantly better Jan 09 03:56:26 JMyaDaGod: the problem with android is the vast differences in experience you have with so many different handsets (from absolute muck to not bad at all) Jan 09 03:56:57 zsoc, it's a big unknown for android - they seem to be going the way of windows mobile .. and i don't think it's a good thing Jan 09 03:57:06 so many handsets .. and no clear upgrade paths for all these phones Jan 09 03:57:07 I think that's why they made the nexus one. Jan 09 03:57:11 will they support 2.1? 2.0 ? Jan 09 03:57:13 bpadalino: no comment on my gl ventures? I need a cheerleader :D Jan 09 03:57:19 Templarian: who's /they/ ? Jan 09 03:57:25 zsoc: yea there are so many chocies but being that my main choice comes to stay with sprint i am limited Jan 09 03:57:27 zsoc, you're doing awesome! are you still as giddy as a schoogirl ? Jan 09 03:57:28 HTC / Google. Jan 09 03:57:50 zsoc, have you added anything like rotation/translation ? Jan 09 03:57:52 bpadalino: no, i haven't done anything awesome yet, maybe by 'cheerleader' i meant 'person who encourages me' :P Jan 09 03:57:57 changed your vertex shader ? Jan 09 03:58:03 added patterns or textures ? Jan 09 03:58:06 * Templarian can't wait till WM7 is out. :) Jan 09 03:58:39 Zsoc : are you working on anything mind blowing since CES announcement? Jan 09 03:58:41 bpadalino: actually /coding/ in gl/es isn't my prerogative. I need to be able to debug GL examples to port to es1.1 or 2.0 Jan 09 03:58:52 zsoc, good call Jan 09 03:58:52 JMyaDaGod: no, but I think everyone else is :D Jan 09 03:59:13 bpadalino: I think I'm going to create a wiki entry about it, there's very little out there (just a few blog entries really) Jan 09 03:59:36 bpadalino: the only thing i'm really struggling with is converting 'quads' (since es doesn't support them) Jan 09 03:59:46 mulling over palm's CES announcements .. mainly software with minor hardware bumps .. i like what they're saying/doing .. i hope my pre keeps getting software updates for a long time as i don't think the OMAP is fully utilized at all Jan 09 03:59:47 I feel like I should extend my framework, it could work very nicely binded to c and c++. :) Jan 09 03:59:53 I can't wrap my head around 2 triangles becoming a square ;) Jan 09 04:00:10 zsoc: really... Open Wings 3D. Jan 09 04:00:10 zsoc, draw a diagonal between the corners .. Jan 09 04:00:13 and you have a square Jan 09 04:00:19 made of 2 triangles Jan 09 04:00:32 bpadalino: lol i get that part, I mean the placement of verticies Jan 09 04:00:53 so you share 2 vertices between your triangles .. Jan 09 04:01:17 and then each triangle has a third that is opposite right ? Jan 09 04:01:22 conjugate maybe ? Jan 09 04:01:41 zsoc, draw it out on paper and i am sure it will make plenty of sense to you :) Jan 09 04:01:52 Couldn't you just use a nice already built class for this. Jan 09 04:01:55 bpadalino: conceptually yes, it's the syntax that's getting me Jan 09 04:02:04 ah, syntax Jan 09 04:02:35 Are you trying to extend GL into JS? Jan 09 04:02:37 you can figure that out Jan 09 04:02:49 Templarian: nah - he is working on SDL stuff Jan 09 04:02:59 just learning GLES and the nuances between 1.1 and 2.0 Jan 09 04:03:16 We have 2.0 right? Jan 09 04:03:23 bpadalino: neither 1.1 or 2.0 support quads :P Jan 09 04:03:27 Templarian: we have both, thanks to egaudet Jan 09 04:03:43 Why would one need both when there is 2.0? Jan 09 04:04:03 bpadalino: I really need to see an example of a glBegin(gl_quad) being converted to 2 triangle vertex arrays Jan 09 04:04:15 Templarian: 1.1 is fixed pipeline compatible, easier to port from daddy GL 1.x Jan 09 04:04:31 Oh yea, porting not new apps forgot. Jan 09 04:04:44 zsoc, you can just use triangles to draw quads Jan 09 04:05:09 egaudet: I know this, and bpadalino just told me this... but none of my syntax is working out. I need to see an example. Jan 09 04:06:20 http://jogles.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/using-gl_triangle_strip-to-draw-gl_quad-primitives/ Jan 09 04:07:00 http://webos.pastebin.com/mf90ca53 Jan 09 04:07:29 uhm Jan 09 04:07:30 wow Jan 09 04:07:31 thanks Jan 09 04:08:08 ask and ye shall receive Jan 09 04:08:32 Gl_TRIANGLE_STRIP with 4 verticies. Jan 09 04:09:50 egaudet: albeit you used a different method Jan 09 04:10:08 they'r all valid ways of doing the same thing Jan 09 04:11:43 yea I just copy pasted from the great blog that bpadalino sent me earlier Jan 09 04:11:58 http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2009/05/opengl-es-from-ground-up-table-of.html Jan 09 04:12:01 yeah, i sent out great links! Jan 09 04:12:02 heh Jan 09 04:12:35 :D Jan 09 04:12:46 zsoc: in the SDL_Keymap do u in which files you linked those keys to the game Jan 09 04:12:46 ? Jan 09 04:13:00 atlanta: huh? Jan 09 04:13:05 i liked http://www.mobileorchard.com/getting-started-with-opengl-es-20-on-the-iphone-3gs/ as it explained the pipeline of 2.0 a bit better for me Jan 09 04:13:23 zsoc: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=games/sdldoom.git;a=blob;f=src/SDL_keysym.h;h=e976c0be37b1612d2fc4d8bf638e222284c5103b;hb=HEAD Jan 09 04:13:25 I am tryin to run a chmod command from inside a code snippet. I must be missing something... Jan 09 04:13:30 i've only had passing knowledge in fixed function opengl :( Jan 09 04:13:32 egaudet: er, that pastebin seems to make a 3d triangle :) not quite a quad... Jan 09 04:13:35 zsoc: how do u guys linked those ascii codes to the game Jan 09 04:13:44 atlanta: the game links them, not us Jan 09 04:14:10 ali1: good, fixed function isn't used hardly anymore :) Jan 09 04:15:14 zsoc: wierd im trying to make the connection but grr Jan 09 04:15:25 its not making sense i guess Jan 09 04:16:12 atlanta: er, doom references the sdl_keysym header to know what "key" is what ascii value. if you change the ascii values in the header, it changes in doom Jan 09 04:16:47 oh ok so u just change the ascii linking Jan 09 04:16:50 i think i got u Jan 09 04:16:51 bpadalino: I really need to see a code example of the wordpress page you just linked me to Jan 09 04:16:55 can anyone point me at a sample code from somewhere that uses linux commands from inside a patch or app code snippet? Jan 09 04:17:01 atlanta: that's the super broken hacky way to do it, yes Jan 09 04:17:09 zsoc: oh ok gotchaaa Jan 09 04:17:13 zsoc, can you point to an array of vertices ? Jan 09 04:17:27 where it's just xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz over and over ? Jan 09 04:17:29 yea because i was doing the changes in the main original doom file and no go so imma try to dig around Jan 09 04:17:36 zsoc: im guessing its a sdl issue Jan 09 04:17:36 ? Jan 09 04:17:47 http://webos.pastebin.com/m6eedc877 Jan 09 04:17:52 zsoc, how about that! Jan 09 04:18:41 bpadalino: point, like glVertexAttribPointer ? Jan 09 04:18:50 brb ,mcdonalds Jan 09 04:18:52 no .. just glVetexPointer i think works Jan 09 04:18:55 Vertex Jan 09 04:19:47 make vert1 = ( 0, 0, 0 ), vert2 = (1, 0, 0), vert3 = (0, 1, 0), vert4 = (1, 1, 0) .. Jan 09 04:20:36 bpadalino: i'm only familiar with floating vertex arrays Jan 09 04:21:22 s/\([01]\)/\1\.0/g Jan 09 04:21:29 i guess my sed is terrible Jan 09 04:21:33 bpadalino: ie: GLfloat vertex_arr[9] = {0.0f, 0.5f, 0.0f,-0.5f, -0.5f, 0.0f,0.5f, -0.5f, 0.0f,}; Jan 09 04:21:49 ok, it's the same as .. Jan 09 04:22:14 { 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1.0, 0.0 } ; Jan 09 04:22:36 are display lists even supported in es1.1? they shouldn't be :P Jan 09 04:22:38 and draw gl_triangle_strip instead Jan 09 04:22:40 bpadalino: ok, then i'm with you Jan 09 04:22:55 I get it now Jan 09 04:22:58 thank you Jan 09 04:23:42 WAIT, a quad and a triangle strip have the same number of verticies Jan 09 04:24:04 * zsoc smacks forehead Jan 09 04:24:20 right - you just need to draw them in the right order Jan 09 04:24:27 How does 'coding geometry' come so natural to you guys, if you never have done this before? Jan 09 04:25:08 zsoc, i deal with 2D all day long at work with e^(pi*i*omega*t) Jan 09 04:25:31 You know, if software developers ran the world, i think we'd be a little more organized. Jan 09 04:26:00 i like to think we'd eat spaghetti every night Jan 09 04:26:01 :) Jan 09 04:26:51 for all of you who like beautiful math proofs: (e^(pi * i)) + 1 = 0 Jan 09 04:26:56 it's one of my favorites Jan 09 04:27:17 i should see if there's a shirt with that on it Jan 09 04:27:53 I'm not a math guy, and I still think that's attractive. Jan 09 04:28:04 My High school teacher always wrote "Euler's a badass" on his arm. Jan 09 04:28:58 who would win in a fight: Euler or Gauss ? Jan 09 04:30:53 Euler, he looks a hardened fighter. Jan 09 04:32:31 Gauss was German tho .. even their language sounds scary Jan 09 04:33:06 This is very true. Jan 09 04:33:23 i think Gauss' signature even has integrals in it: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Carl_Friedrich_Gau%C3%9F_signature.svg Jan 09 04:33:47 and pi is in there too Jan 09 04:37:10 So he writes pretty.. LIKE A GIRL. Jan 09 04:37:42 oooh, snap! Jan 09 04:45:27 Templarian: what rounded corners Jan 09 04:45:42 Templarian: there are no rounded corners in fullscreen mode Jan 09 04:45:49 rwhitby: is anyone still using 1.1.3? Jan 09 04:45:58 PuffTheMagic: no I mean for terminal. Jan 09 04:46:03 dBsooner: shouldn't be Jan 09 04:46:12 rwhitby: ok.. I am removing that option from the form Jan 09 04:46:17 1.3.1 and 1.3.5 are the only two? Jan 09 04:46:22 Templarian: its full screen so there are no rounded corders Jan 09 04:46:26 Templarian: the LCD is rectangle Jan 09 04:46:49 oh I probably need to update last time I was using it it has rounded lol Jan 09 04:49:36 Templarian: that screenshot is SDLterminal Jan 09 04:49:40 not the old terminal Jan 09 04:49:59 Oh, hehe, well the old terminal needs to be rectangular. :) Jan 09 04:50:36 SDLterminal ? Jan 09 04:50:40 * Templarian just locked up his phone by closing terminal fun. Jan 09 04:51:16 bpadalino: it's a termial written in SDL, think colourful. Jan 09 04:51:28 like rainbows!! Jan 09 04:52:08 No, but my bro's ssh window is like a rainbow... it makes my eyes bleed. Jan 09 04:55:19 zsoc: u saying GLES 1.1 will be slower than sw rendering? Jan 09 04:56:12 PuffTheMagic: oh god hell no Jan 09 04:56:32 good Jan 09 04:56:44 PuffTheMagic: there should be very little cpu hit, hopefully Jan 09 04:56:48 that's the idea at least Jan 09 04:56:55 right Jan 09 04:57:06 well i could have a sdl python shell up in minutes Jan 09 04:57:07 :D Jan 09 04:57:18 but linux shell Jan 09 04:57:22 idk what the eta is now Jan 09 04:57:33 zsoc: yo so... Jan 09 04:57:42 zsoc: what were u looking at in SDL_terminal Jan 09 04:57:49 cause there was GL stuff in the library Jan 09 04:57:53 almost done :) it's 11 lines of code but i had a little difficultly converting a GL_QUADS list to GL_TRIANGLE_STRIP vertex array Jan 09 04:57:53 and there was GL stuff in the example Jan 09 04:59:01 PuffTheMagic: what was in the actually source Jan 09 04:59:06 s/actually/actual Jan 09 04:59:15 ? Jan 09 04:59:22 what or that? Jan 09 04:59:49 .. huh? Jan 09 04:59:59 that Jan 09 05:00:09 I meant i was looking at what was in the actual source Jan 09 05:00:19 it looks like there are #ifdef's for if GL is there or not .. Jan 09 05:00:29 so maybe it isn't a requirement for SDL_terminal ? Jan 09 05:01:18 bpadalino: it's not Jan 09 05:01:27 neato Jan 09 05:01:27 bpadalino: he wants to use it... to save cpu load Jan 09 05:01:35 bpadalino: don't ruin my game here, i'm trying to fix it for him ;) Jan 09 05:01:42 hehe Jan 09 05:02:02 well, if you could get both versions working .. so the pixi terminal can transition over to SDL_terminal too Jan 09 05:02:05 that would be the best bet Jan 09 05:02:39 heh Jan 09 05:02:50 I don't know that we get that much out of GL here Jan 09 05:02:52 zsoc: the source of the lib or the source of the example? Jan 09 05:03:14 bpadalino: its not a requirement, we want to use it though Jan 09 05:03:22 PuffTheMagic: why, though? Jan 09 05:03:35 destinal: faster rendering Jan 09 05:03:35 PuffTheMagic: understandable .. maybe try using without it for now first ? Jan 09 05:03:47 bpadalino: well with out it works already Jan 09 05:03:52 the rendering part Jan 09 05:03:56 oh ... great! Jan 09 05:04:03 so if zsoc wants to get the GL working Jan 09 05:04:07 bpadalino: right, it just needs a terminal Jan 09 05:04:12 while we figure out how to connect it up to a pty Jan 09 05:04:23 slick Jan 09 05:04:26 PuffTheMagic: the source of SDL-terminal-1-1-3 or what not Jan 09 05:04:30 but we could use python RIGHT NOW Jan 09 05:04:33 and have a "shell" Jan 09 05:04:38 that would be very useful Jan 09 05:04:38 PuffTheMagic: well it needs more than a PTY, yeah? Jan 09 05:04:55 it needs to render vt / ansi escape codes or does it do that? Jan 09 05:05:27 i think it does that Jan 09 05:06:02 looking a terminal3D.c Jan 09 05:06:04 in the examples Jan 09 05:06:09 they print out a whole slew of colors/underlines Jan 09 05:06:57 looks like it handles ansi color codes Jan 09 05:07:02 and maybe some others so far Jan 09 05:07:51 well we only really need one terminal type Jan 09 05:07:55 and ctrl+a and ctrl+e work Jan 09 05:07:59 a replacement for terminal would be nice for this weekend Jan 09 05:08:01 something we can set termcap too Jan 09 05:08:05 s/too/to/ Jan 09 05:08:05 destinal meant: something we can set termcap to Jan 09 05:08:06 to move to beginning and end Jan 09 05:08:22 PuffTheMagic: it's running on the pre itself ? Jan 09 05:08:36 bpadalino: yes sorta Jan 09 05:08:40 neato Jan 09 05:08:48 bpadalino: its not what you think right now Jan 09 05:08:54 right now you can type Jan 09 05:08:58 and the app gets that info Jan 09 05:09:02 and shows it on the screen Jan 09 05:09:06 and it dumps it to std out Jan 09 05:09:16 but its not connected to a pty or a shell or anytrhing Jan 09 05:09:18 ah, no shell to communicate with ? Jan 09 05:09:19 gotcha Jan 09 05:09:22 so the commands arent processed Jan 09 05:09:45 What is libpdl PDL? Jan 09 05:09:52 PDL_SetOrientation Jan 09 05:10:03 Sooo.. Jan 09 05:10:10 When do we get Half Life for the Pre? Jan 09 05:10:11 :-D Jan 09 05:10:18 Klownicle: tomorrow Jan 09 05:10:21 Klownicle: when you get us the source code to half life Jan 09 05:10:21 AWESOME Jan 09 05:10:25 *sniffles* Jan 09 05:10:34 no idea what PDL is Jan 09 05:10:38 egaudet: what else is in there ? Jan 09 05:10:42 Regardless of all the downsides.. Jan 09 05:10:48 That would be awesome if we got half life for the pre lol Jan 09 05:10:58 Quake is sweet thoe. Jan 09 05:11:06 PDL = plugin developer language? :P Jan 09 05:11:10 so..... Jan 09 05:11:12 especially the joystick. brownie points to the maker heh Jan 09 05:11:18 we need to make a symbol picker Jan 09 05:11:20 for sdl Jan 09 05:11:21 :D Jan 09 05:11:23 PDL_LaunchBrowser Jan 09 05:11:26 PDL_LaunchEmail Jan 09 05:11:31 PDL_SetFIrewallPortStatus Jan 09 05:11:33 PDL_Quit Jan 09 05:11:38 egaudet: yeah i saw those Jan 09 05:11:42 interesting Jan 09 05:11:44 Someone should go email valve and see if they want to port it. Jan 09 05:11:55 egaudet: can you figure out which package it belongs in from ipkg ? Jan 09 05:11:56 Half Life works on linux right? Jan 09 05:11:57 egaudet: wait what are you looking through? I saw the exact same 4 things somewhere Jan 09 05:12:08 maybe that would be helpful as well ? Jan 09 05:12:28 http://webos.pastebin.com/m67d7acfc Jan 09 05:12:37 zsoc, libpdl Jan 09 05:12:41 cool, looks like centro battery is a go Jan 09 05:12:50 looks to be basically identical to pre battery Jan 09 05:13:07 egaudet: hmm.. i pulled it out of some sort of binary... should search the channel logs Jan 09 05:13:20 i wish i can remember what i was binutils'ing Jan 09 05:13:30 maybe it was libpdl *shrugs* Jan 09 05:13:33 PDL = Plugin Developer Library? Jan 09 05:13:34 Description: Palm Gaming SDK Jan 09 05:13:55 ah Jan 09 05:13:58 Maintainer: OpenEmbedded Team Jan 09 05:14:10 The maintainer is a lie Jan 09 05:14:13 lol Jan 09 05:14:34 yeah, that's the default maintainer Jan 09 05:15:00 official? Jan 09 05:15:04 destinal: yeah plugin development library sounds like it could be it Jan 09 05:15:08 yet Jan 09 05:15:16 yea I agree Jan 09 05:15:37 hopefully PDL_SetOrientation just takes a 0/1 Jan 09 05:15:53 woot, something to reverse engineer Jan 09 05:16:20 destinal: i wouldnt spend any time on that Jan 09 05:16:28 I know we get official stuff in march on it Jan 09 05:16:30 PDK beta will be open soon enough Jan 09 05:16:59 PDL_GetDeviceName PDL_GetUniqueID PDL_SetFirewallPortStatus PDL_NotifyMusicPlaying PDL_CustomPauseUiEnable PDL_BannerMessagesEnable PDL_SetOrientation PDL_ScreenTimeoutEnable PDLNet_Get_Info PDL_GetLanguage PDL_Quit PDL_GetKeyName PDL_LaunchBrowser PDL_LaunchEmail PDL_BannerMessagesEnable PDL_ScreenTimeoutEnable PDL_GetDeviceName PDL_LaunchBrowser PDL_GetLanguage PDLNet_Get_Info PDL_GetKeyName PDL_Quit PDL_GetUniqueID PDL_SetOrien Jan 09 05:17:21 destinal: Palm Device Library? no idea Jan 09 05:17:33 destinal: hmm yours makes more sense, idk haha Jan 09 05:17:44 Custom Pause UI! Jan 09 05:17:53 hey we need that Jan 09 05:18:11 yeah it has some useful calls. Jan 09 05:18:15 quick someone build a header Jan 09 05:18:42 build it and they will come Jan 09 05:18:52 looks like it's mostly C tho ..so headers may be troublesome Jan 09 05:20:02 SDL_WebOsHookCustomPauseUiEnable SDL_WebOsHookBannerMessagesEnable SDL_WebOsHookSetOrientation SDL_WebOsHookScreenTimeoutEnable SDL_GetKeyName SDL_WebOsHookSetOrientation SDL_WebOsHookCustomPauseUiEnable SDL_WebOsHookScreenTimeoutEnable SDL_WebOsHookBannerMessagesEnable SDL_GetKeyName Jan 09 05:20:20 some of those may be upstream calls Jan 09 05:20:28 or all Jan 09 05:21:47 bpadalino: some seems to be c++ Jan 09 05:22:21 the hooks into luna Jan 09 05:22:25 ah right Jan 09 05:26:53 xplane uses Jan 09 05:26:53 PDL_GetDeviceName SDL_UnlockAudio SDL_LockAudio SDL_PauseAudio SDL_CloseAudio SDL_OpenAudio SDL_GetError SDL_RWFromConstMem SDL_FreeRW SDL_FreeSurface SDL_GL_SwapBuffers SDL_PollEvent SDL_Init PDL_ScreenTimeoutEnable PDL_SetOrientation PDL_NotifyMusicPlaying PDL_SetFirewallPortStatus PDL_GetUniqueID SDL_GL_SetAttribute SDL_SetVideoMode SDL_WM_SetCaption SDL_JoystickOpen SDL_JoystickGetAxis SDL_Quit SDL_FreeSurface SDL_JoystickOpe Jan 09 05:28:15 does xplane have multiplayer, to be setting firewall stuff? Jan 09 05:32:51 wow, quiet Jan 09 05:33:12 night Jan 09 05:33:24 I need PDL_SetOrientation Jan 09 05:33:39 I don't know how to use it yet Jan 09 05:33:53 you don't like landscape? :) Jan 09 05:34:00 I -need- landscape Jan 09 05:34:26 tuxracer is in normal mode until the course is loading it switches to landscape to play, but the menus and stuff aren't landscape Jan 09 05:34:47 and I think you may need to set landscape manually when using GLES ? Jan 09 05:39:07 destinal: xplane claims to have wifi multiplayer Jan 09 05:40:21 yup Jan 09 05:40:33 other players must be on the same wifi network Jan 09 05:40:45 so tcp broadcast I imagine Jan 09 05:41:03 we should make a tunnel and get people going on it across the internet :) Jan 09 05:41:21 (or udp broadcast more likely) Jan 09 05:41:31 egaudet: rotate your projection matrix Jan 09 05:41:55 dtzWill: if the PDL has a function to handle everything for you, why not use it? once we figure it out I mean Jan 09 05:42:08 egaudet: i just tried it since i was curious. glRotatef( -90.0, 0, 0, 1 ) Jan 09 05:42:10 Ok, what GL guru would like to check my work? Read comments -> http://webos.pastebin.com/d32c3ee7b Jan 09 05:42:44 destinal: interesting point. here's hoping it does what you want :):). but yes that would be nicer Jan 09 05:43:02 there's a lot of convenience functions in PDL Jan 09 05:43:13 like things that just wrap luna service calls Jan 09 05:43:36 so things we could do ourselves if we had to Jan 09 05:43:48 destinal: getting PDL working would be great, sorry, i was simply answering that one question, i'm doing other things and just saw it w/o the context :) Jan 09 05:43:58 hmm.. i already see some bad commas in my own code :P Jan 09 05:44:02 dtzWill: nah, it's good advice Jan 09 05:44:45 zsoc: so are there any guides on porting GL to GL ES? Jan 09 05:45:31 destinal: if someone can confirm that port is sane, then that code example is TWO guides (display lists -> vertex arrays, and quads to triangle strips) Jan 09 05:46:30 http://webos.pastebin.com/d6789adc5 <-- without my bad commas Jan 09 05:47:35 in open driver? Jan 09 05:47:56 oh, just api stuff Jan 09 05:48:43 destinal: or guides like you mean 'out there' guides? Because bpad linked two of them earlier Jan 09 05:48:50 ah I'll check Jan 09 05:50:35 destinal: altho that site uses display lists which i am not fond of Jan 09 05:51:18 PuffTheMagic: ping Jan 09 05:56:13 hmm, one wonders if a bug in quake was the cause of that crash or whether quake just draws too much power for the centro battery to be happy providing Jan 09 05:56:51 i've almost built ioquake3 i think Jan 09 05:57:03 ali1: cool Jan 09 05:57:36 oh hey it got past the SDL/rendering stuff Jan 09 05:57:46 good sign.. Jan 09 05:59:11 built! Jan 09 06:00:57 ali1: nice!!! Jan 09 06:01:06 ali1: you port to opengl es? Jan 09 06:01:16 destinal: http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2009/05/opengl-es-from-ground-up-table-of.html <-- that was the one. besides the lack of vertex arrays (which is hop skip and jump away from what he's doing anyway), those are very very very useful blog entries Jan 09 06:01:20 i cheated and hacked nanoGL to work with it Jan 09 06:01:29 lol, i see teamwork here :p Jan 09 06:01:29 ali1: ah Jan 09 06:01:38 ali1: should've asked, i had nanoGL ported for a while Jan 09 06:01:41 built != functioning, tho :) Jan 09 06:02:02 well lame we're working towards same thing separately Jan 09 06:02:15 haha Jan 09 06:02:19 communication ftw Jan 09 06:02:45 you're working with ioquake3 as well? Jan 09 06:02:49 ali1: how well did you test nanoGL? seems to not handle quads super well? i have an example somewhere, and it draws them wrong Jan 09 06:03:10 ali1: i have on my disk like 5-10 copies of q1-3 most of which have been at least partially ported haha Jan 09 06:03:16 I have a pastebin example that i need someone to test for sanity ;) Jan 09 06:03:25 dtzWill: i'm not quite the guy to test things but just get surprised that something isn't working Jan 09 06:03:47 ali1: incl ioq3 yeah. although i was going to finish getting gl-q2 to work first since that seemed 'easier' Jan 09 06:03:57 "easier" b/c while it's simpler, the code is old Jan 09 06:04:57 dtzWill: so what's this nanogl and how does hacking it help? Jan 09 06:05:01 ali1: but you know your nanoGL works? was going to push mine later for everyone but wanted a working game using it first :( Jan 09 06:05:06 yeah i was thinking about doing the gl stuff on quake but i've wasted many nights on q3a Jan 09 06:05:24 destinal: nanoGL is a library that wraps opengl es 1.1 calls and implements a subset of opengl Jan 09 06:05:41 destinal: so you can just #include a header (or replace GL/GL.h) and call it's init function before using gl, and use regular gl Jan 09 06:05:54 destinal: i have a few working examples with it, spinning cube, rainbow pyramids, etc Jan 09 06:06:05 dtzWill: didn't test it extensively, just drew a triangle Jan 09 06:06:12 ali1: kk Jan 09 06:06:13 via glBegin Jan 09 06:06:27 ali1: probably close enough. you using it's multitexture support? Jan 09 06:06:54 ali1: we should probably push nanoGL for people to use, if for no reason than no one else has to port it :) Jan 09 06:06:58 dtzWill: where do you get the code for nanogl? Jan 09 06:07:07 so drawing Quads you just draw triangle span swapping every 3rd/4th vertex right Jan 09 06:07:24 destinal: best source i found was inside the quake ports to symbian Jan 09 06:07:24 and how hard do you have to work to port it, just compilation or other mods? Jan 09 06:07:31 I think tuxracer broke my phone Jan 09 06:07:42 didn't know it supported multitexturing haha Jan 09 06:07:43 destinal: http://koti.mbnet.fi/hinkka/Download.html Jan 09 06:08:00 dtzWill: your version will probably be better since i just hacked mine to get it to work Jan 09 06:08:33 ali1: well gl with q3, sounds like you're making good progress. i got q2 ported almost entirely, but for some reason it isn't working yet. i know that sounds bad, and maybe it is, but i think it's gonna be something silly :). so working on that now Jan 09 06:08:52 i was being quiet about my work but let's not step on each other's toes :). Jan 09 06:08:59 ali1: maybe, maybe not hehe Jan 09 06:09:24 ali1: you're going to put the q3 stuff in git eventually, right? Jan 09 06:09:36 yeah but its going to be awfully ugly Jan 09 06:09:46 ali1: let me know how that goes and if you get stuck.... :) but sounds like you're making sweet progress Jan 09 06:09:59 ali1: little sad that you beat me to it, but also i'm happy someone else fought through that :):) Jan 09 06:10:17 i didn't say its running yet, just i got it built, hah Jan 09 06:10:55 i'm happy enough about that, especially with my passing knowledge in gl Jan 09 06:11:16 ali1: well depending on how hacky you were to make it, that's at least a great step towards it working :) Jan 09 06:11:38 ali1 #if 0'ing out all the code that causes problems, for example, make it a much less significant step :P Jan 09 06:13:06 Woot, this actually works. Jan 09 06:13:58 dtzWill: #if 0? nah, just delete it ;) Jan 09 06:14:09 i mean, look over your shoulder first to make sure no one is looking... Jan 09 06:14:33 zsoc: well it's an easy way to keep it around for reference, particularly if followed by an #else and a ported version Jan 09 06:14:42 zsoc: also it doen'st comment it out so the diff isn't crazy Jan 09 06:14:55 zsoc: shrug, it's just a thing some people like to do Jan 09 06:15:48 i did that on some anisotropic filtering stuff because i didn't care too much about it at the moment Jan 09 06:16:03 dtzWill: er... i put the winky face at the end of that comment... Jan 09 06:16:11 xD Jan 09 06:17:41 zsoc: reading isn't my srtong pursuit Jan 09 06:18:08 hehe Jan 09 06:18:21 ali1: oh sure, i wasn't saying some code doesn't make sense, it was a bad joke--imagine extreme case of "i got it to compile" Jan 09 06:19:08 rwhitby: or zsoc wats the host type for quake in ./configure Jan 09 06:19:13 honestly i feel like that because opengl etc blah blah blah Jan 09 06:19:23 but i'm gonna take a look at the multitexturing stuff Jan 09 06:19:29 for nano Jan 09 06:19:46 i'm just now barely starting to get comfortable with gl Jan 09 06:20:27 actually dtzWill what'd you do for that texture compression format it complains about? Jan 09 06:20:30 PuffTheMagic: if you ever come back from your disappearing act, your brand new rectangle is done, all nice and hardware accelerated :P Jan 09 06:21:18 ali1: i never finished getting q3a to compile, sorry. or what do you mean? i don't know that i've seen that, but i've had some long nights so might've forgotten Jan 09 06:21:43 it whines about GL_COMPRESSED_RGBA_S3TC_DXT1_EXT because it isn't defined anywhere Jan 09 06:22:03 atlanta: quake doesn't work via ./configure afaik. i don't know that anyone has spent any time fixing that; i build it, with a modified makefile in my own build system Jan 09 06:22:15 atlanta: at some point i might get it working in the cross-compile git, but not today :) Jan 09 06:22:16 in tr_image.c i believe Jan 09 06:23:34 ali1: in q3? i didn't get that far. but a quick glance says they have it defined in the SDL it ships with.... and another quick glance says that's in the sdl that palm uses. Jan 09 06:24:02 ali1: it looks like it's in SDL_opengl ? but as for that working with nano i really doubt it Jan 09 06:24:25 yeah thats what i saw, so i just #if'd it out Jan 09 06:24:27 dtzWill: oh ok Jan 09 06:24:39 i wanted to see if i can work on some keybindings Jan 09 06:26:15 atlanta: you don't like the quake bindings? :(. fwiw if you switch keyboard to 'normal', it disables them, and you can use the console/"/bind" to set them that way. or in config.cfg in id1/ Jan 09 06:26:58 atlanta: as for the screen-related "bindings" that's a bunch of c code i wrote so that's probably not the best to be modifying (if for no other reason than i didn't write it to be super flexible/customizable) Jan 09 06:27:13 dtzWill: gotcha i just wanna learn Jan 09 06:27:16 trying to get the just of C Jan 09 06:27:46 atlanta: honestly i might suggest a C book, there are tons of "ok" free ones online.. Jan 09 06:28:00 oh i got a good one Jan 09 06:28:05 http://webos.pastebin.com/m1f979e4d Jan 09 06:28:05 oh ok :) Jan 09 06:28:17 i just started reading it but im also a debug learner Jan 09 06:28:19 can anyone tell me why the above gives me a seg fault? Jan 09 06:28:24 after draw arrays Jan 09 06:28:48 egaudet: er, after or during? Jan 09 06:29:12 after Jan 09 06:29:15 err during Jan 09 06:30:21 I'd like to see more context Jan 09 06:30:36 egaudet: i'm confused why your triangle has 4 indicies Jan 09 06:30:41 how are color[] and cube[] defined? Jan 09 06:31:06 er, triangle strip rather Jan 09 06:31:14 zsoc, it's a cube Jan 09 06:31:59 egaudet: right... ? maybe i'm confused because you're using display lists (and i can't see them) my cubes have 12 indicies Jan 09 06:32:16 so, more context :) Jan 09 06:32:21 http://webos.pastebin.com/m390553cf Jan 09 06:32:33 12 indices? Jan 09 06:32:46 well yea sorry, 12 meaning 4 sets of 3 points Jan 09 06:32:52 x,y,z Jan 09 06:32:53 4 times Jan 09 06:32:56 is a cube Jan 09 06:33:19 jacques, that's my arrays Jan 09 06:33:24 those are* Jan 09 06:33:30 it works without the color Jan 09 06:33:54 take the color pointer away and i get a spinning seemingly 3d but it's all one color so you can't tell cube Jan 09 06:33:59 (this is the testgl.c I am porting) Jan 09 06:34:26 dtzWill, glRoatef didn't work Jan 09 06:34:32 btw Jan 09 06:36:10 egaudet: oh it worked for me. can i see the code? :/ Jan 09 06:36:12 egaudet: I don't see anything obvious Jan 09 06:36:33 YAY i freaking fixed nanoGL's broken QUAD implementation Jan 09 06:36:35 :D:D Jan 09 06:36:45 :O Jan 09 06:36:50 better than mine already Jan 09 06:37:28 ali1: for now. :). no reason they should be different Jan 09 06:37:31 any discovery linking the new EA games crash issues to homebrew? Jan 09 06:37:52 ali1: err i mean different in the long run; no reason for us to maintain "ali1's nanoGL" and "dtzWill's nanoGL" hahaha Jan 09 06:38:25 spinning rainbow cube \o/ Jan 09 06:38:33 i know i won't even touch mine anymore Jan 09 06:38:43 i trust your gl skills more than mine Jan 09 06:39:29 ali1: well at some point i want to see what you did; might as well make sure i caught the things you did Jan 09 06:39:47 alright Jan 09 06:40:39 heh, one more reason not to put hard coded dates in your apps Jan 09 06:40:40 http://i.imgur.com/vP4xE.png Jan 09 06:41:03 ali1: fwiw i put a decently robust logging system into it as well so you can easily see what's getting called when; been useful while porting so far. Jan 09 06:41:30 dtzWill: you might consider sending that upstream to the nanogl guyss... Jan 09 06:41:59 zsoc: idk who actually wrote this. there's no readme, and only place i found it was with the quake ports Jan 09 06:42:13 zsoc: but yeah. honestly i'm not sure how they got theirs working without this, it's kinda essential Jan 09 06:42:15 lolol Jan 09 06:42:30 and i'm not sure that nanogl.sf.net is the same project Jan 09 06:42:40 i thought the quake ports guy did it Jan 09 06:42:51 ali1: oh that's quite possible. that would explain things :) Jan 09 06:43:31 yeah its the quake ports guy Jan 09 06:43:45 he wrote it just enough to cover the quake ports Jan 09 06:44:20 ali1: ah okay. yeah you're right /me remembers forum posts indicating as much Jan 09 06:46:47 so webos sdl can only do 32bpp ? Jan 09 06:47:44 do glOrtho and glOrthof do the same thing Jan 09 06:49:06 jacques: you can pretend for others in SetVideoMode, but internally it actually does 32bpp and translates for you. Jan 09 06:50:49 jacques: but the returned surface will be stored with w/e bpp you requested (err at least for 8bpp it does) if that makes porting easier Jan 09 06:51:14 dtzWill: OK thanks. I guess that's not my problem Jan 09 06:51:55 dtzWill: well hmm. mame is trying to set 16bpp I think Jan 09 06:53:05 Specifies the number of components per color. Must Jan 09 06:53:06 be 4. The initial value is 4. Jan 09 06:53:33 BTW, in case anyone else was wondering, you have to do 4 for glColorPointer in GLES 1.1 Jan 09 06:53:45 nodnod Jan 09 06:53:51 oh thanks i was just thinking about that Jan 09 06:53:58 sorry i didn't catch that Jan 09 06:54:05 yea you be sorry zsoc! Jan 09 06:54:11 egaudet: that was your problem? why it was crashing? Jan 09 06:54:12 egaudet: no really, i am :( Jan 09 06:54:56 dtzWill: how can I get your version of nanogl? Jan 09 06:55:10 I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter Jan 09 06:55:20 destinal: don't do it man, port your own stuff ;) Jan 09 06:55:42 yes, let's all port th same thing Jan 09 06:55:45 zsoc: sure, but he's enhanced it, should we all do the same? Jan 09 06:55:59 useless duplication of effort Jan 09 06:56:18 zsoc: or do you mean don't rely on nanogl Jan 09 06:56:26 zsoc: instead port the code itself Jan 09 06:56:31 destinal: that's what i meant Jan 09 06:56:38 what's expected FPS? Jan 09 06:56:40 nanoGL is great in the context of quake :) Jan 09 06:56:55 OK nm then :-) Jan 09 06:57:02 zsoc: well I think mainly for some pretty spinny things Jan 09 06:57:08 that are written in plain GL Jan 09 06:57:12 egaudet: FPS of what? Jan 09 06:57:19 destinal: you don't need nanoGL for a few lines of code, learn how to do it Jan 09 06:57:31 I agree with that Jan 09 06:58:02 I think I saw triangle of doom was getting 319 fps Jan 09 06:58:09 somewhere ... Jan 09 06:58:27 if someone wants a pretty spinning demo i can post the binaries. unless someone /really/ wants it i was gonna wait until i got a game on top of it to prove it worked and was robust :) Jan 09 06:58:42 but now that CES is over i think spinning demos are less useful, right? Jan 09 06:58:47 (other than for learning) Jan 09 06:59:00 make some decent tutorials ;) Jan 09 06:59:32 OK testgl is ported Jan 09 06:59:38 super fast spinning cube Jan 09 07:00:00 egaudet: nice :D Jan 09 07:00:05 dtzWill: learning is very useful Jan 09 07:00:42 zsoc: pong Jan 09 07:01:33 PuffTheMagic: this is (what i believe to be) sane gl of the part that needs porting (note the comments) http://webos.pastebin.com/d6789adc5 Jan 09 07:01:44 and i wrote it from effing scratch Jan 09 07:02:52 which means it _probably_ won't work in context. but out of context it works fine in my test environment :) Jan 09 07:03:29 zsoc: so the library builds with gl enabled? Jan 09 07:04:01 * rwhitby bbl Jan 09 07:04:17 zsoc: are you linking to libGLES_CM or libGLES2 Jan 09 07:04:19 or what ever it is Jan 09 07:04:53 PuffTheMagic: you didn't ask me about that. you told me to port daddy gl to ES, i did that. and it should work with either (although i'd link libGLES_CM and add egau's-found starter for 1.1) Jan 09 07:05:20 zsoc: part of porting is compiling it Jan 09 07:05:25 which means you need to link it Jan 09 07:05:31 PuffTheMagic: i fixed your code :P it compiles Jan 09 07:05:52 it will link to either, but i'm not sure if the rest of the library is sane for 2.0 Jan 09 07:06:00 PuffTheMagic: i need your patches Jan 09 07:06:05 my patches? Jan 09 07:06:06 or at least the work to did to get it to compile int he first place Jan 09 07:06:20 i was under the impression you had to "get it working" Jan 09 07:07:24 zsoc i removed the python check from configure.ac, i removed all the -lGL stuff (but that will need to be changed to -lGLES or something like that) and i removed the python stuff from examples/Makefile.am Jan 09 07:08:20 right, you removed "stuff". so instead either replace the small snippet of code i gave you and continue your work, or give me what you're already "removed" (preferably in a git repo somewhere...) so i can continue an identical match to your build Jan 09 07:09:54 zsoc: i removed more than what i said was needed Jan 09 07:09:59 meaning i have to work today, which is just silly. working on saturdays should be illegal Jan 09 07:10:04 s/meaning/meanwhile Jan 09 07:10:16 zsoc: just save your code i cant really do anything with GLES yet Jan 09 07:10:23 PuffTheMagic: ok, it's saved Jan 09 07:10:52 PuffTheMagic: I want to continue this tho, so please get a repo started since i know you're going to do more work on it in the next 26 hours Jan 09 07:11:08 k Jan 09 07:11:27 what ya makin Jan 09 07:13:32 dtzWill: what did you use to load the library for your nanoGL port? Jan 09 07:13:41 i did mine all wrong Jan 09 07:18:04 * destinal has large books to read on opengl and opengl-es it seems Jan 09 07:18:21 tuxracer Plays in portrait mode (so things are cut off) Jan 09 07:19:37 destinal: ping Jan 09 07:19:52 PuffTheMagic: pong Jan 09 07:20:03 Awesome my login box is done! Jan 09 07:20:12 destinal: i think using the pty stuff from VTE is gonna the best bet Jan 09 07:20:21 seems easy to understand Jan 09 07:20:25 its C not C++ Jan 09 07:20:30 PuffTheMagic: sounds good to me, I've read over VTE also Jan 09 07:20:39 was very straightforward Jan 09 07:20:39 * ali1 will just go with libdl Jan 09 07:20:52 egaudet: why won't it play in landscape? Jan 09 07:21:47 ali1: yeah i'm using sdl, is that what you meant? i wanted the nice luna hooks and it's not clear that EGL will play as nice Jan 09 07:21:55 zsoc, because I don't know what to pass to PDL_SetOrientation to put it into landscape Jan 09 07:22:18 ah Jan 09 07:22:27 egaudet: i suppose you've tried the obvious stuff? Jan 09 07:22:36 dtzWill: to fill up the struct with the proper function pointers Jan 09 07:22:41 0,1,2 "left", Jan 09 07:22:57 landscape? :) Jan 09 07:22:58 have you ltrace'd? Jan 09 07:23:00 can you ltrace? Jan 09 07:23:31 destinal: im not exactly sure how we tie the gui into it yet Jan 09 07:23:41 does SDL do that...? Jan 09 07:27:13 nope Jan 09 07:27:15 is r0 arg 1 in arm assembly? Jan 09 07:29:44 Ok, one more problem for today. I'm trying to ssh into my pre, I've got openssh installed and an conntected via wireless. I followed these instructions: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH Jan 09 07:29:51 and copied the private key to my mac Jan 09 07:31:09 nevermind about nano i was confusing myself Jan 09 07:32:19 ali1: kk Jan 09 07:32:30 upon trying to ssh it asked me to accept the public key, which I did. For sshing I used: ssh -p 22 root@192.168.1.107. Jan 09 07:32:56 To import the private key on my mac I used ssh-keygen -f id_rsa Jan 09 07:33:15 (id_rsa being the file generated on the pre) Jan 09 07:33:34 but ssh gives me "Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive)." Jan 09 07:35:20 AraqirG-laptop: sounds backwards. you want to generate keys on the mac, and copy the _public_ key to the pre Jan 09 07:35:34 yeah, the ssh-add command i think does that Jan 09 07:36:20 I had to do it for work with our key on my mac but I forget the exact command Jan 09 07:38:26 running quake seems to run my cpu at 600 instead of 500. anyone know about this? Jan 09 07:39:31 joshua: just tried using ssh-add instead but I get the same error Jan 09 07:39:44 preston: it doesn't set it, idk why that would happen. pre scales up for you? Jan 09 07:40:38 dtzWill, yes and I'm not using any of the cpu patches. Jan 09 07:41:00 it goes back when I quit. Jan 09 07:42:50 what's up guys? Jan 09 07:45:31 someone reports the same thing occurring with quake and another with the golf game here: http://m.forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/223609-native-apps-run-600mhz.html Jan 09 07:49:39 PuffTheMagic destinal I have a question... is there any chance that a clever graphics guy could get a gtk+ app running on the pre, I note that Cairo claimes to have experimental support for openGL backend, but I suspect I would be better off just tossing the display stuff and starting over ( a reversi app ) Jan 09 07:50:38 Rick-work: it's possible but there are probably a number of reasons why you'd prefer to go pure SDL Jan 09 07:51:00 yeah, I kinda thought so. Jan 09 07:51:02 not sure how hard a gtk to SDL port would be Jan 09 07:51:06 regular expressions = my favorite thing Jan 09 07:51:37 the main thing is webos has some custom hooks built into SDL you may want to use that may not be compatible with direct EGL or whatever cairo may support Jan 09 07:51:50 now if there's some kind of gtk to SDL binding (odd as it may sound) that might not be bad Jan 09 07:52:34 also you'll probably wind up using SDL for a lot of other stuff, including sound and UI Jan 09 07:52:44 mouse etc Jan 09 07:53:03 probably better to toss his ui and start over Jan 09 07:53:08 it's the engine I care about anyway Jan 09 07:53:32 destinal: er.. i'm pretty sure there's a gtk-sdl Jan 09 07:53:49 i think thats for having SDL inside a GTK gui Jan 09 07:53:59 ooohh, would make more sense Jan 09 07:54:52 the cairo page says there's an experimental gtk backend, but just nevermind. I didn't ask. Jan 09 07:55:27 yeah they show it as a part of this here http://www.gnome.org/mobile/ Jan 09 07:55:33 http://gnomejournal.org/article/34/writing-a-widget-using-cairo-and-gtk28 Jan 09 07:56:20 Rick-work: actually it might integrate nicely, now I'm tempted to try Jan 09 07:56:20 http://www.cairographics.org/OpenGL/ Jan 09 07:56:23 ehh that is cairo canvas on gtk in that second link. nevermind heh Jan 09 07:56:47 the one I just sent uses cairo, OpenGL and SDL Jan 09 07:56:54 I'd give that a shot Jan 09 07:57:37 I wasn't really aware they mixed so well together Jan 09 07:58:22 PuffTheMagic, need some git help Jan 09 07:58:58 I want to put one tree on top of another Jan 09 07:58:58 Rick: did you say the existing code was cairo based? Jan 09 07:59:07 nodnod Jan 09 07:59:12 gtk 1.2 Jan 09 07:59:19 if you try it, I'd love to see the code Jan 09 08:00:34 http://www.cairographics.org/SDL/ Jan 09 08:00:54 in case you don't have any opengl code in there you may prefer this example Jan 09 08:01:11 (just cairo + SDL) Jan 09 08:01:47 suddenly there are a lot of apps that may not be that hard to port Jan 09 08:02:38 sorry for being totally wrong earlier, you learn something new every day I guess Jan 09 08:05:33 bizarre. Palm has a patch to zlib (one of three individual patch files in their zlib-1.2.3-patches.tgz on opensource.palm.com) that ONLY removes the COPYING file Jan 09 08:05:37 that's all the patch does Jan 09 08:12:27 dz Jan 09 08:13:05 dtzWill can you reproduce the scaling thing? Jan 09 08:14:55 preston: i haven't tried, if you tell me how i can try in a bit. Jan 09 08:16:43 it's not a huge deal. I was just wondering if anyone here knows why since quake is the only app that causes it for me. Jan 09 08:16:56 scaling thing? Jan 09 08:17:41 quake makes my cpu go to 600 while it's running. Jan 09 08:17:47 heh Jan 09 08:17:48 Well I'll be damned. 4 quads of different colors. Jan 09 08:17:49 whats that command Jan 09 08:17:51 time in state something Jan 09 08:18:21 * FuMan doesn't know how ot check frequency Jan 09 08:18:49 cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state Jan 09 08:18:51 win. Jan 09 08:19:15 ha Jan 09 08:19:26 preston, reproduced on my end. Jan 09 08:20:03 But only if the card is in focus, if i put it in card view, it drops back down to 500 Jan 09 08:20:24 that's what happened to me. Jan 09 08:20:50 preston: i'd imagine it happens with all native apps then Jan 09 08:20:55 so, pre is supporting a bit of native scaling now? Jan 09 08:20:58 heh, ill try Golf Jan 09 08:21:24 maybe why the new games crash for some users? Jan 09 08:21:28 yep Jan 09 08:21:31 600 in Lets Golf Jan 09 08:21:48 it's unlikely that's why the games crash for some people Jan 09 08:21:59 heh... so if we have built in upscaling, where is the downscaling when not in use to save battery D; Jan 09 08:22:22 1.4 :D Jan 09 08:22:37 they said at CES it would improve battery life Jan 09 08:23:04 heh, lets hope so Jan 09 08:23:21 i couldnt survive a day before, let alone when there were some good time killer games that clock up my phone D; Jan 09 08:23:46 although i've been using SR at 600 since it was discovered Jan 09 08:23:54 and going back to stock in 1.3.5 is sobering :/ Jan 09 08:24:01 zsoc I was jusr wondering because of the instability so many people reported with thw speed patches. Jan 09 08:26:54 Is Puffthemagic here? I have some question about Freetether Jan 09 08:33:24 FuMan: interesting, according to that my Pre has spent time at 600000 Jan 09 08:33:32 gollyzila: sup Jan 09 08:36:42 /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor -> userspace hmmm Jan 09 08:37:17 hi, so I've managed to install both the service and app on my Pre. I still need to download drivers on my 64-bit Win7 laptop? Jan 09 08:37:19 something in userspace is telling the CPU to change freqs Jan 09 08:38:58 strings LunaSysMgr | grep cpufreq Jan 09 08:39:00 /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed Jan 09 08:39:05 hmmmmmm Jan 09 08:40:10 preston: I found references to "turbo nide" in LunaSysMgr Jan 09 08:40:17 s/nide/mode/ Jan 09 08:40:17 destinal meant: preston: I found references to "turbo mode" in LunaSysMgr Jan 09 08:40:19 virtual void HostArmCastle::turboMode(bool) Jan 09 08:41:10 preston: looks like palm has done some clock boosting for the new game support Jan 09 08:41:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-02batSRclA << it'd be sweet if they made this for the pre Jan 09 08:41:50 controls would be rather weird to figure out though Jan 09 08:42:21 Toaster23: bluetooth remote control ftw Jan 09 08:42:36 I thought that the reason for lower clock speeds was believe to be due to stability issues with the omaps in the pre? Jan 09 08:43:08 maybe it only boosts newer pre's Jan 09 08:43:38 jacques: that would seem pretty odd Jan 09 08:44:34 destinal: :O that would be awesome! Jan 09 08:48:05 preston: are you running the standard quake package? Jan 09 08:48:10 yes Jan 09 08:48:23 and starting it from icon in Luna? Jan 09 08:48:28 yes Jan 09 08:48:37 maybe anything of type "game" boosts Jan 09 08:49:00 jacques: that's what I would expect, but quake is still unfortunately type "web" Jan 09 08:49:11 unless something has changed not reflected in my copy Jan 09 08:49:32 so that's the odd thing Jan 09 08:49:36 I just started doom built from cross-compile.git and it went up to 600 Jan 09 08:49:56 actually, i did the wget sometime yesterday to try out the control overlays Jan 09 08:50:04 just exited doom and it went back down to 500 Jan 09 08:50:14 prestonjames: check appinfo.json Jan 09 08:50:35 heh, it goes back to 500 in card view Jan 09 08:50:50 not to sound like a noob, but how? Jan 09 08:50:51 neat Jan 09 08:51:07 prestonjames: well uh, can you ssh or novaterm to your pre? Jan 09 08:51:51 2010-01-09T08:51:20.416229Z [10566] castle user.warning LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: Turbo mode on Jan 09 08:52:07 no. i've only done things i can do with terminal or wosqi Jan 09 08:52:27 prestonjames: do you have the wget line you used? Jan 09 08:52:34 jacques: Turbo mode on! Jan 09 08:52:59 I did PmLogCtl set LunaSysMgr debug Jan 09 08:53:03 and tail messages Jan 09 08:53:53 2010-01-09T08:53:30.463592Z [10696] castle user.warning LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: Turbo mode off Jan 09 08:53:58 destinal: lol cool Jan 09 08:54:04 (when I shrunk it) Jan 09 08:54:06 wget http://wdtz.org/files/quake.sh -O- |/bin/sh Jan 09 08:55:13 doesn't look like anything in that changes it from web Jan 09 08:55:43 confirmed it's still web Jan 09 08:55:57 wait, whats this quake business, whad i miss Jan 09 08:56:20 yup Turbo mode on even from the type:web upstart hack Jan 09 08:56:40 destinal: what do you think triggers it? Jan 09 08:56:50 jacques: the IPC from sdl to LunaSysMgr Jan 09 08:57:06 so any sdl app ? Jan 09 08:57:11 let me try triangle Jan 09 08:57:22 dang I would prefer that not to be the case Jan 09 08:57:26 FuMan: check Preware for Quake Jan 09 08:58:10 doomtriangle does it too Jan 09 08:58:13 jacques: doomtriangle does indeed turn turbo on Jan 09 08:58:16 run from the cmdline Jan 09 08:58:23 :-\ Jan 09 08:58:50 now maybe we can force turbo off with some kind of call or message Jan 09 08:59:11 well we could always write to the file in /sys Jan 09 08:59:13 but it's annoying to make it opt-out instead of opt-in Jan 09 08:59:24 /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed Jan 09 08:59:33 no wonder Rick was complaining about power usage in quake :) Jan 09 08:59:45 my thoughts exactly Jan 09 09:00:01 I read at 600MHz this OMAP3 is not efficient Jan 09 09:00:28 Rick said the system draws more than 500ma charge current (net discharge of battery) running quake Jan 09 09:00:35 not efficient is a massive understatement Jan 09 09:00:42 how to reconcile this with the reports of speed boosting crashing pre's ? Jan 09 09:00:55 Rick-work: :-D Jan 09 09:00:56 on anything less than a full 1 amp feed, the battery percentage goes DOWN while running quake Jan 09 09:01:08 that's scary Jan 09 09:01:16 Also, the battery percentage goes down while running quake if on a touchstone. Jan 09 09:01:24 woah :O Jan 09 09:01:26 no way Jan 09 09:01:27 wow Jan 09 09:01:30 It only holds even on a FULL 1 amp feed. Jan 09 09:01:31 thats some major battery useage Jan 09 09:01:34 and it'll do it on Oregon Trail too unless there's a way to opt out Jan 09 09:01:44 no shit. If you can turn turbo off, then that would be "good" Jan 09 09:01:45 i mean in the PDK Jan 09 09:01:48 it'll do it on a triangle Jan 09 09:01:56 Rick-work: you can. Jan 09 09:01:58 well Jan 09 09:02:03 then please god do so Jan 09 09:02:11 you can write 500000 to /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed Jan 09 09:02:19 well let's look for a real api Jan 09 09:02:20 but that's not the same as disabling the feature Jan 09 09:02:23 even undocumented Jan 09 09:02:25 destinal: sure Jan 09 09:02:29 because once it gets set, by running quake, the battery useage STAYS high until you reset the damned phone Jan 09 09:02:43 thus eating battery at a rediculus rate even when running no apps. Jan 09 09:02:54 prestonjames: preware might be newer than that wget'd version. not sure :). sorry, that's not meant to be any kind of stable way to get things :):) Jan 09 09:02:56 Rick-work: we are seeing the speed go back down to 500 after exiting the sdl apps Jan 09 09:02:57 so please god help me Jan 09 09:02:59 Rick-work: well that could be because we're not running it as a proper type:game app Jan 09 09:03:07 kk Jan 09 09:03:10 Rick-work: that explains a LOT Jan 09 09:03:17 don't know, don't care..... Jan 09 09:03:22 :-) Jan 09 09:03:36 dtzWill, there has been an update in preware since then that i've downloaded. Jan 09 09:03:51 (at least the kernel thinks the speed goes back down) Jan 09 09:04:10 watch cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed Jan 09 09:04:14 is instructive Jan 09 09:04:16 I haven't seen any unusual power usage on mine and I have been running sdl things for short times a lot Jan 09 09:05:21 which is not to say there is no problem Jan 09 09:05:48 scaling switches between 5 and 6 cardng and uncarding quake Jan 09 09:06:00 killing quake drops it back to 5 every time Jan 09 09:06:02 I wonder what the power transfer of a touchstone is Jan 09 09:06:14 jacques: like 700ma Jan 09 09:06:15 jacques: I'm new to the pre so I can't comment on whether it's unusual, but I've noticed at times that the pre struggles to charge...gaining like 1% ever 20-30 minutes Jan 09 09:06:37 I wouldn't be surprised if it's after running quake Jan 09 09:06:51 Other times it charges very quickly Jan 09 09:07:06 idontwan2know: one of my laptops doesn't like my pre in usbnet mode and refuses to connect to it or charge it Jan 09 09:07:18 well, we should probably switch to type: game for things but doing some power benchmarks to confirm rick's issue would be good I suppose Jan 09 09:07:22 idontwan2know: how long have you had your pre? Jan 09 09:07:25 as far as we know (i haven't been following too closely, sorry) this has nothing to do with quake itself, but any SDL app dev'd by us, right? Jan 09 09:07:27 see if switching would even fix it Jan 09 09:07:32 about a week Jan 09 09:07:42 dtzWill: any sdl app period Jan 09 09:08:02 idontwan2know: OK it should be recent manufacture then Jan 09 09:08:18 I've had mine three weeks Jan 09 09:08:45 howdy? Jan 09 09:08:51 Yeah, it came flashed to 1.2.1, so it can't be more than 2 months old Jan 09 09:09:01 wasn't somebody complaining that quake wasn't completely exiting for them? Jan 09 09:09:30 if a process was hanging around I suppose lunasysmgr could be confused into keeping the speed high Jan 09 09:09:31 jacques: thanks, i just wanted to make sure it wasn't on me or something i did/failed to do :) Jan 09 09:09:52 dtzWill: nope, please keep doing what you're doing :-) Jan 09 09:10:05 Rick-work: does a luna restart resolve the battery usage issue, or does it require a hard restart? Jan 09 09:10:15 don't know Jan 09 09:10:26 didn't want to do a luna restart on the show floor. Jan 09 09:10:39 lol Jan 09 09:11:01 Rick-work: where do you work? Jan 09 09:11:24 TBC Software, topeka, ks. Why? Jan 09 09:11:45 jacques: well, someone was complaining that the headless type:web launcher app stayed running headless Jan 09 09:11:56 but that wouldn't have any effect on clock Jan 09 09:12:13 oh, i just joined the channel and the comments since made me wonder, that's all Jan 09 09:12:42 what is this clock issue you speak of? Jan 09 09:13:22 native / sdl apps ramp up clock speed to 600hz, vs 500 is normally runs at Jan 09 09:13:28 save for the weird 550 period during bootup Jan 09 09:13:40 it could be something simple or something really insidious like voltage is increased along with clock, then clock goes down but voltage stays high, turning into heat Jan 09 09:14:08 so there seem to be a problem? Jan 09 09:14:11 eieio: you do ppc asm? Jan 09 09:14:28 yeah, i used to. good catch :) Jan 09 09:14:33 heh Jan 09 09:14:46 I lol'd first time I saw that Jan 09 09:15:12 yeah, me too Jan 09 09:15:29 oh here I was thinking about old macdonald and a farm or something, not realizing it had any special powerpc significance Jan 09 09:15:33 :) Jan 09 09:15:36 eieio: some ppl are reporting a problem which could be related to clock scaling Jan 09 09:15:54 destinal: it's a powerpc asm instruction Jan 09 09:15:58 yeah, i get that more often, destinal Jan 09 09:16:18 the more i lurk here Jan 09 09:16:25 the more i realize, I'm not near nerdy enough to fit in. Jan 09 09:16:26 jacques: if nothing else, it's cool that scaling appears to be stable now and that we should be aware that silly non-intensive apps should probably have a way to drop turbo Jan 09 09:16:55 running SDL term in turbo all the time would kind of suck Jan 09 09:17:02 indeed it would Jan 09 09:17:14 a lot of potential sdl apps are not cpu intensive Jan 09 09:17:21 such as the sdlterminal Jan 09 09:18:00 jacques: this is something I really would have expected would be in libpdl Jan 09 09:18:11 if your app needs it, ask for it Jan 09 09:18:30 yep Jan 09 09:19:08 so what's the nature of this problem? have you figured out how to reproduce it? Jan 09 09:19:46 eieio: we only have anecdotal reports so far Jan 09 09:20:22 some ppl say their pre's continue to use power at a high rate even after they exit a game Jan 09 09:20:31 until they reset the pre Jan 09 09:20:42 libMA_PalmosLinuxDal.so contains the string "turbo" Jan 09 09:20:49 personally I have not seen this behavior Jan 09 09:21:08 * jacques wonders what the Dal is for Jan 09 09:21:29 hmm, i don't think i have either ... but i'm curious Jan 09 09:21:59 jacques: haven't seen it either Jan 09 09:23:23 yup it's sysmgr that does the scaling Jan 09 09:23:25 LunaSysMgr:/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed Jan 09 09:24:36 maybe LunaSysMgr somehoe misses the message indicating it should throttle downw Jan 09 09:25:51 maybe we need an applet to display the current speed Jan 09 09:26:38 jacques: a binary service that subscribes to notifications on the sys file, would that do it without constant polling? Jan 09 09:27:15 using inotify? does that work on virtual fs like /sys ? Jan 09 09:27:20 no idea Jan 09 09:27:25 never tried it Jan 09 09:27:45 I recall some limitations but last time I looked into *notify was three years ago Jan 09 09:28:30 cat /proc/filesystems | grep notify Jan 09 09:28:32 nodev inotifyfs Jan 09 09:29:50 cool, inotify has a man page Jan 09 09:30:13 are you just persuing this on a whim or do you have a device in that state? Jan 09 09:31:00 pursuing* Jan 09 09:32:27 interesting Jan 09 09:32:29 12993.117 PRV call 711 com.palm.display com.palm.hidd /HidAccelerometer/State «string=“{"mode":"set","value":"on"}”» Jan 09 09:32:49 http://old.nabble.com/sysfs-and-inotify-td23021094.html :-| Jan 09 09:33:16 jacques: oh well Jan 09 09:33:27 eieio: AFAIK nobody here currently has a device in the suspect state Jan 09 09:34:34 ah, that's too bad Jan 09 09:34:52 jacques: well for me all I had was a vague suspicion that we should probably be using type: game to give lunasysmgr more awareness of the launch, but really one would think the IPC would handle that Jan 09 09:35:28 and indeed the turbo mode state seems to reflect that Jan 09 09:36:23 maybe even a little app which when ran queried /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_cur_freq would help isolate Jan 09 09:36:26 would be cool if we could get some power graphs off one of the apparently affected systems Jan 09 09:37:05 at any rate, I'm going to bed Jan 09 09:37:12 if someone suspected their device was in the high power usage state they could run it Jan 09 09:37:19 ok later destinal Jan 09 09:37:21 jacques: agreed Jan 09 09:37:23 night Jan 09 09:41:27 I wonder how the clock in the top bar is implemented. maybe we could hook up to a once per minute signal and query / display the cpu speed in the top bar Jan 09 09:41:41 Hey guys, this is probably pretty easy information to find but I'm not turning it up: Where are application preferences (i.e. Mojo cookies/depots) physically stored in the filesystem? Jan 09 09:43:37 tgies: /var/palm/data/ ? Jan 09 09:44:19 Oh shoot, I knew it was something like that... thanks Jan 09 09:44:44 in other news, managed to actually land in xplane as opposed to dying in flames. go, me. Jan 09 09:44:50 really good night now :) Jan 09 09:45:02 cool. I am getting that next time I get into wifi range Jan 09 09:45:23 jacques: we should tunnel some broadcast traffic to try multiplayer sometime then :) Jan 09 09:45:43 yeah that would be worth a try :-) Jan 09 09:45:59 local WLAN only seems a silly restriction Jan 09 09:46:13 I *really* want a bi-plane dogfighting game Jan 09 09:46:24 ah, wait, looks like what i'm looking for is in /media/internal/.app_storage Jan 09 09:46:50 lol destinal i can fly a real plane but getting used to the tilt control in xplane was a little fiddly :p Jan 09 09:47:16 yeah we need to work on the bluetooth stack Jan 09 09:48:02 jacques xplane ostensibly has a multiplayer mode but i haven't been able to try it yet Jan 09 09:48:07 no dogfighting though of course Jan 09 09:48:13 but mid-air collisions are fun Jan 09 09:48:59 rwhitby: you around? Jan 09 09:49:39 tgies: heh Jan 09 09:50:56 arrrrrggh ok Jan 09 09:51:06 anyone know where the new games are storing their save data &c? Jan 09 09:51:16 particularly nfsuc Jan 09 09:51:38 i have to delete it so i can test something but I was sort of playing that and I want to make sure I won't lose my progress :p Jan 09 09:55:02 I have that Jan 09 09:56:05 /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.ea.app.nfsuc/res_nfsuc/gamedata ? Jan 09 09:56:57 Alright the initial port from iphone to webos of tux rider world challenge is pushed. Should have a good configure and make. See/use ./configure-pre script for configure options. You can get through the menus with enter key and then play on a half screen because I can't get it to landscape yet. Lots of bugs and things to work out but it's something Jan 09 09:57:15 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=games/tuxracer.git;a=summary Jan 09 09:58:18 now that that's done somebody can do vdrift, it's sort of the same thing :) Jan 09 10:00:20 how do i create a wiki page Jan 09 10:01:01 !list Jan 09 10:02:05 egaudet: nice!! :D Jan 09 10:04:14 egaudet: iphonegl.c implements quake's qgl interface? o_O Jan 09 10:04:21 /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.ea.app.nfsuc/res_nfsuc/gamedata ? Jan 09 10:04:25 i suspect you may have nailed it Jan 09 10:04:32 dtzWill, yea Jan 09 10:04:36 at least i see a gamesett next to it which is probably settings Jan 09 10:05:10 egaudet: you are on a roll tonight Jan 09 10:05:57 bah, it took me 4 days to port a game that should have takena couple of hours Jan 09 10:06:21 anyone else had an issue with update app saying "updates are available for applications" and then none actually are Jan 09 10:06:24 I'll really be on a roll if I could find out how on earth to add a new article to wiki :( Jan 09 10:06:28 after 1.3.5 Jan 09 10:06:36 i doctored to 1.3.5 so nothing should really be fried Jan 09 10:06:53 egaudet: so you can play? first opengl|es game?! :D Jan 09 10:07:17 first homebrew opengl|es game :P Jan 09 10:07:40 egaudet: well right Jan 09 10:07:53 you can "play" but stinks because it's drawing for landscape mode but its in portrait Jan 09 10:09:44 egaudet: and rotating the project matrix in your gl init dind't do the trick? :( Jan 09 10:10:09 egaudet: i know i mentioned it before, and you said it didn't work, sorry. that's lame though Jan 09 10:10:12 thing is it's meant to be portrait for th menu screens Jan 09 10:10:16 and then change once you load a level Jan 09 10:10:24 s/load/are loading/ Jan 09 10:10:25 egaudet meant: and then change once you are loading a level Jan 09 10:10:40 egaudet: oh fun :). can't you change the perspective matrix on the fly? or no? Jan 09 10:11:02 no idea Jan 09 10:11:08 egaudet: anyway sounds like you have your reasons, don't mean to be on your case. Jan 09 10:11:11 egaudet: kk Jan 09 10:11:16 egaudet: awesome progress though :), congrats Jan 09 10:11:31 egaudet: i've been at the same thing for days and i have nothing to show for it :( Jan 09 10:11:36 I don't even know the code intimately enough yet, but I do have the placeholder function waiting for us to crack PDL_SetOrientation(...) Jan 09 10:12:10 what are you working on? Jan 09 10:17:16 egaudet: do you know why the tuxracer git tree is so big? I am over 25MiB and it's < 25% done Jan 09 10:17:35 it contains the data files Jan 09 10:17:44 TRWC-data Jan 09 10:18:02 probably should compress that Jan 09 10:18:14 egaudet: glquake goodness Jan 09 10:18:56 so is that the same way quake ports GL to GLES ? Jan 09 10:20:03 egaudet: it's not the way i'm doing it :). but all those functions in there are called 'qgl*' and that's quake's way of being arch-independent----to port to a new platform you just implement those Jan 09 10:20:22 egaudet: although typically you do that by using functions pointers and making them point into various libraries Jan 09 10:21:58 isn't gl arch-independent anyway Jan 09 10:22:05 API Jan 09 10:22:38 egaudet: idk what to tell you :). i thought so? lol Jan 09 10:23:36 btw compared to other games, tuxracer seems to load fast. or maybe it's just the splash screen making me think that Jan 09 10:23:46 yep 74M TRWC-data/ Jan 09 10:23:50 the iphone guy did a nice job Jan 09 10:24:10 my hands are god damned cold Jan 09 10:24:19 oh dang its 4 in the morn Jan 09 10:24:31 ali1: :( Jan 09 10:24:33 ali1: any luck? Jan 09 10:24:54 spent a lot of time recoding things and modifying the Makefile to be nicer Jan 09 10:25:16 ali1: nice Jan 09 10:27:28 ali1: so does it run? :) Jan 09 10:27:44 haven't tried yet Jan 09 10:27:50 ali1: !!! haha :) Jan 09 10:28:20 i just got it to the point where it will build, i didn't touch any of the SDL initialization stuff hah Jan 09 10:29:47 now i did, so maybe i'll test it before i get to sleep Jan 09 10:29:49 i dunno Jan 09 10:30:11 egaudet: I guess there is no easy way to get the GL libs into the cross-compile env right now ? Jan 09 10:30:54 oops, I mean GL headers Jan 09 10:31:10 I get configure: error: Cannot find GL library Jan 09 10:33:43 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/GLES_1.1_3D_Cube_Demo Jan 09 10:33:48 jacques: GL headers are avail on the khronos website Jan 09 10:34:27 jacques, you should only need SDL_opengles.h Jan 09 10:34:34 from palm's patched sdl lib Jan 09 10:34:56 which I thought was already being staged? Jan 09 10:35:14 egaudet: awesome Jan 09 10:35:31 egaudet: it is staged. hmm. Jan 09 10:35:41 egaudet: 296fps xD Jan 09 10:36:07 lol Jan 09 10:36:38 thing doesn't even look like a cube it's spinning too fast Jan 09 10:36:47 where are use created databased stored? Jan 09 10:36:50 gotta run with -slow :P Jan 09 10:37:18 edektor: on the phone :) Jan 09 10:37:51 yeah Jan 09 10:37:59 oh.. Jan 09 10:38:02 lol Jan 09 10:38:03 where on the phone Jan 09 10:38:24 before 135 i know it was in /var/home/root/html5-databases Jan 09 10:38:29 but it could be elsewhere now Jan 09 10:38:41 k thanks Jan 09 10:38:54 and cookies were in /var/palm/data/cookies.db Jan 09 10:39:00 egaudet: config.log is complaining about not finding libpdl when trying to build test apps Jan 09 10:39:57 ahh yea you need libpdl and libsql Jan 09 10:40:12 (pdl depends on sql) Jan 09 10:40:34 I'll see if I can get those quickly staged Jan 09 10:40:58 shit, i need to find my quake3 disc Jan 09 10:42:30 I think I kow where mine are Jan 09 10:42:38 actually wait i got that id pack on steam Jan 09 10:43:11 ali1: how much is that? Jan 09 10:43:37 the other day I was looking for a box with q1-3 in it Jan 09 10:44:21 when i got it, it was 35 dollars Jan 09 10:44:35 it included all id games upto the Doom3 expansion Jan 09 10:44:39 not bad ($20 would be better :-) Jan 09 10:45:05 i think it was during the holidays Jan 09 10:45:20 but yeah i mean everything, even commander keen Jan 09 10:45:27 which was awesome Jan 09 10:45:37 awww commander kewen Jan 09 10:45:38 *keen Jan 09 10:45:56 actually i think someone made an engine that can play commander keen games Jan 09 10:46:03 PORT Jan 09 10:46:08 jacques, pdl and sqlite staging pushed Jan 09 10:46:30 7 more min Jan 09 10:47:45 egaudet: you rock Jan 09 10:50:20 so the cpu jumps to 600MHZ while running native apps? Jan 09 10:50:35 egaudet: the "missing" script is not executable. I chmod'ed it and now tuxracer is building Jan 09 10:50:43 i thought that was supposed to make some pres explode Jan 09 10:50:59 k you have push access? Jan 09 10:50:59 egaudet: not sure if it's native or sdl apps Jan 09 10:51:05 something about the omap processor dying faster Jan 09 10:51:20 ali1: I read that too Jan 09 10:51:54 jacques, yea either sdl or anything that goes through napp Jan 09 10:53:04 egaudet: what needs to be moved to the pre to run tuxracer ? Jan 09 10:54:16 TRWC-data needs to be copied somewhere, probably /media/internal and then sym link created pointing to it at /usr/local/share/tuxracer Jan 09 10:54:37 doesn't -need- sym link but too big for / Jan 09 10:54:45 ok thanks Jan 09 10:55:05 maybe I will play with it tomorrow - almost 5am here :-\ Jan 09 10:55:41 yea 6 here :eek: good night Jan 09 10:55:43 egaudet: but it seemed to build fine Jan 09 10:55:53 good job Jan 09 10:55:56 cool Jan 09 10:55:57 thanks Jan 09 10:56:21 so glad to be over that GLES 1.1 hurdle Jan 09 11:03:56 figured it out? Jan 09 11:03:58 testgl 342.70 FPS Jan 09 11:04:00 lol Jan 09 11:04:32 in case anyone was wondering, you can compile testgl with a line similar to this: Jan 09 11:04:37 sb2 -M /home/packages/palm/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7 gcc -Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/local/lib -DHAVE_OPENGL -I/usr/local/include/SDL -L/usr/local/lib -o testgl testgl.c -lSDL -lGLES_CM Jan 09 11:06:40 geist, yea found the SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION (and MINOR) Jan 09 11:06:56 sup geist? Jan 09 11:08:55 alright good night Jan 09 11:09:03 `night egaudet Jan 09 11:09:11 not much Jan 09 11:09:19 got to tahoe a while ago, trying to fall asleep Jan 09 11:09:40 trying to remember this old wolfenstein 3d like game from the commander keen days Jan 09 11:09:45 oh cool/dang Jan 09 11:09:53 wasn't the usual ones Jan 09 11:10:27 hmm, not ringing any bells Jan 09 11:10:51 wasn't rise of the triad Jan 09 11:11:04 it had a lot of different situations, magic in it Jan 09 11:11:13 hexen? Jan 09 11:11:26 that was later, wasn't it? Jan 09 11:11:27 no, that was a doom level game Jan 09 11:11:30 heretic ? Jan 09 11:11:42 ah, could have been heretic Jan 09 11:12:14 no, it was wolfenstein level 3d Jan 09 11:12:27 heretic and hexen were doom licened variants Jan 09 11:12:50 they were circa 1994/95, wolfenstein was more like 92 Jan 09 11:14:09 ah, found it Jan 09 11:14:11 catacomb-3d? Jan 09 11:14:20 I'll be monitoring from my pre until I fall asleep :-) Jan 09 11:14:47 yep, catacomb Jan 09 11:15:00 configuration configuration :| Jan 09 11:15:17 catacomb abyss i think specifically Jan 09 11:16:04 some of the creatures seem similar to doom Jan 09 11:16:58 it apparently kind of predated wolfenstein Jan 09 11:17:07 yep Jan 09 11:17:11 of course ultima underworld was going on around then Jan 09 11:17:16 ah 1991 Jan 09 11:17:24 which was more technically interesting Jan 09 11:19:17 yeah, that one was interesting Jan 09 11:19:46 still, quake holds a special place for me Jan 09 11:20:44 quake was sort of the tipping point Jan 09 11:21:49 yeah Jan 09 11:22:03 though i was playing the crap out of all of the doom series Jan 09 11:22:07 and hexen and heretic Jan 09 11:22:10 and rise of the triad Jan 09 11:22:33 had a fun dialup service in houston call dwango that faked out ipx over dialup and let you play doom Jan 09 11:22:42 and had a good chat room Jan 09 11:23:01 argh ioquake doesn't run Jan 09 11:23:12 was something announced? Jan 09 11:23:19 cool, ndis driver? Jan 09 11:23:43 oh that's cool Jan 09 11:24:07 i played doom quite a bit too Jan 09 11:24:09 oh hah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DWANGO Jan 09 11:24:16 i remember dwangobob Jan 09 11:24:27 since i was dialing into the houston one the main devs were there Jan 09 11:24:36 in the good ol 713 Jan 09 11:25:12 it basically emulated ipx or whatever was necessary to get the game running Jan 09 11:25:23 it was dos based, so prior to ndis and all that Jan 09 11:25:46 jacques_pre: is the demo in the repo ready to build? Jan 09 11:27:37 rwhitby: no, I copied it from the wiki page Jan 09 11:31:06 geist: did you go out to tahoe with vitali? Jan 09 11:32:54 yeah Jan 09 11:34:04 ah cool. how is it out there? Jan 09 11:36:28 dunno, cold Jan 09 11:36:32 not snowing though Jan 09 11:37:54 i have never been to this cabin before, but it seems nice Jan 09 11:38:12 i might have to do some working out here for a week or so in the upcoming weeks Jan 09 11:38:15 months Jan 09 11:39:57 oh now that would be cool Jan 09 11:40:46 anyway, i sleep now Jan 09 11:41:10 aight lata dude. Jan 09 11:45:06 yawn Jan 09 11:46:08 i'm just gonna sleep Jan 09 11:46:12 night Jan 09 12:00:57 why in god's name does palm let you delete pdf viewer Jan 09 12:13:14 tgies: You never know what fools might want to delete it. Jan 09 12:14:20 well, I was deleting everything that wasn't nailed down, as part of an experiment Jan 09 12:14:30 and i figured, if i can delete it, there must be a way to reinstall it Jan 09 12:14:32 Nope Jan 09 12:14:45 I'm not sure how it even deletes it considering it's stored in the read-only filesystem Jan 09 12:14:57 it probably just hides it from the launcher some stupid way Jan 09 12:15:05 yeah Jan 09 12:15:11 trick is figuring out how to get it back Jan 09 12:15:14 yeah. Jan 09 12:16:05 atleast palm gives you the option though even if it isnt use friendly. Jan 09 12:22:20 SDL_gfx woo Jan 09 12:33:31 g'day dtzWill Jan 09 12:34:24 rwhitby: hey :) Jan 09 12:38:19 I can't belive how "open" the whole firmware image at palm is Jan 09 12:38:27 rootfs tar files, baseband images Jan 09 12:38:33 everything is just there! Jan 09 12:39:25 rb2k: yep Jan 09 12:40:08 I'll probably receive my GSM Palm on monday and was looking if I should just use the 1.2.1 image and let it update itself or do the jar switch Jan 09 12:40:17 seems to be the same thing in the end Jan 09 12:40:48 has somebody tried using the "interesting" ipk files from the sprint images and put them on a GSM pre? Jan 09 12:40:57 e.g. amazon Jan 09 12:41:58 rb2k i believe the amazon web services attempt to confirm that you're coming from sprint's network at the head end Jan 09 12:42:07 ah ok Jan 09 12:42:07 makes sense Jan 09 12:42:29 it's also nice that the palm images actually contain both firmwares, regardless of which image one is using Jan 09 12:42:42 I'll probably receive my GSM Palm on monday and was looking if I should just use the 1.2.1 image and let it update itself or do the jar switch Jan 09 12:43:01 oh yeah, for the 1.3.5 update Jan 09 12:43:06 it probably isn't a bad idea to just doctor it outright, the updates always seem to leave behind cruft and stuff Jan 09 12:43:24 so doing the switch? :) Jan 09 12:43:27 yeah Jan 09 12:43:33 ok, will keep that in mind :) Jan 09 12:43:55 to be honest, the whole palm thing seems even a bit more open than android Jan 09 12:43:58 at least from that perspective Jan 09 12:44:36 rb2k: it is Jan 09 12:44:54 settings in json files! Jan 09 12:44:59 oh this is going to be so much fun Jan 09 12:45:00 :D Jan 09 12:45:03 lol Jan 09 12:45:30 you can even see the UMTS firmware parameters Jan 09 12:45:36 how awesome is that? Jan 09 12:45:47 rb2k: http://install.preware.org ; install OpenSSH ; copy authorized_keys into /home/root/.ssh ; done. Jan 09 12:46:07 :D Jan 09 12:46:17 guys is there a way to FORCE the newer webos doctor to pave the usb disk partition as well? Jan 09 12:46:44 then install the advanced linux command line installer (ipkg-opt) to get access to 1600+ linux utilities from ipkg.nslu2-linux.org Jan 09 12:46:54 you know when I think about it, the fact Palm updates so often, it kind of kills the idea of creating custom roms Jan 09 12:46:56 tgies: do a full erase beforehand Jan 09 12:47:02 it's nice that palm gives you the option of not losing all your crap, but what if I want to start completely fresh Jan 09 12:47:14 Kyusaku: another reason why I created meta-doctor Jan 09 12:47:29 I just deleted everything in the usb partition which is i guess as good as anything Jan 09 12:47:34 (let alone the whole illegal to redistribute copyright files thing) Jan 09 12:47:35 rwhitby: good idea Jan 09 12:47:46 is it possible to use ext3 for /media? I don't trust vfat Jan 09 12:48:04 rb2k: it will break things like the USB drive functionality Jan 09 12:48:17 :( Jan 09 12:48:32 right, haven't thought about that Jan 09 12:49:05 4129,NV_GSM_GMSK_MULTISLOT_2_TX_PWR_I,134,11 Jan 09 12:49:12 hmm, I suppose I could do bad things with that Jan 09 12:50:00 rb2k: if you do, please don't discuss them in this publicly logged channel that palm monitors closely ... Jan 09 12:50:05 they even left the comments in there: # Set the SIM to 3G by default, and Testers can overwrite it to 0 Jan 09 12:50:18 nah I won't :) I actually want to be able to use my phone ;) Jan 09 12:50:31 p.s. hallo palm *wave* Jan 09 12:50:46 we tend to draw the line at the modem operation here - there are other forums for that kind of stuff. Jan 09 12:51:29 (including the freesmartphone.org guys who are reverse engineering the binary modem communication protocol) Jan 09 12:51:33 sure, I understand Jan 09 12:51:52 is there any access to the modem for "regular" programmers BTW? Jan 09 12:52:09 we had a project at my university where somebody just wanted to read some paramters Jan 09 12:52:17 almost impossible with most regular phones Jan 09 12:52:34 regular = webOS APIs, or regular = drive the Telephony Interface Layer IPC directly somehow ? Jan 09 12:52:48 e.g. the "how much earlier do I have to send my signales for them to arrive at the right time" paramter Jan 09 12:52:51 (forgot the name) Jan 09 12:53:00 timing advance? Jan 09 12:53:00 either way would be fine :) Jan 09 12:53:03 ha! Jan 09 12:53:05 so on a completely unrelated note Jan 09 12:53:06 exactly, thanks :) Jan 09 12:53:25 has anyone played around with spying on the "now playing" notifications from the music app Jan 09 12:53:26 I think they wanted to use it to optimize GSM location data using clustering algorithms Jan 09 12:53:47 definitely not through webOS APIs, dunno about the TIL layer. The freesmartphone.org guys would know. Jan 09 12:54:06 ok, I will point my professor in that direction Jan 09 12:54:13 i wanted to write an app to upload your listening statistics to last.fm but there's no way to do that through the mojo api Jan 09 12:54:54 is there a way for applications to sort of expose information like that to each other? I know you can do it by spying on the notification service, but that's cheating Jan 09 12:56:19 hi all Jan 09 12:56:40 it is "everybody" Jan 09 12:56:44 So, ipkgservice 0.9.30 and preware 0.9.14 are ready for early alpha testing in the testing feed Jan 09 12:56:49 ;) Jan 09 12:57:24 :-d Jan 09 12:57:48 JenP: you used the testing feed before? Jan 09 12:57:54 sure Jan 09 12:58:19 send it to my email... Jan 09 12:58:43 JenP: actually, easiest way is to use the preware-bootstrap script and say Y to the testing feed Jan 09 12:59:11 cd tmp ; wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap ; sh preware-bootstrap Jan 09 12:59:20 thru novaterm? Jan 09 12:59:24 yep Jan 09 12:59:35 kk one sec Jan 09 12:59:36 "cd /tmp" that should be Jan 09 13:00:15 is there somewhere a find / > bla.txt available? Jan 09 13:00:25 I'd be interested in the proc and sys directories Jan 09 13:00:56 rb2k: doing that in /sys will reset your Pre Jan 09 13:01:03 damn it :D Jan 09 13:01:16 I haven't worked out which node does it yet Jan 09 13:01:35 doesn't it basically only do an ls for each directory? Jan 09 13:01:48 no cat or something that actually accesses the files Jan 09 13:02:02 oh, yeah, maybe that will work. Jan 09 13:02:09 doing an rsync definitely reboots it Jan 09 13:02:35 2496 packages in Preware now :-) Jan 09 13:03:23 rwhitby...do i need root access? because i updated and it's still version 9.12 Jan 09 13:03:31 maybe i need to restart Jan 09 13:03:45 JenP: the script should do all that Jan 09 13:03:49 you need to be root Jan 09 13:03:54 kk Jan 09 13:04:15 JenP: novaterm puts you in as root Jan 09 13:04:17 just the contents of /sys/user_hw/pins/modem/ would be interesting Jan 09 13:04:39 i want that timing advance parameter :) Jan 09 13:04:41 what is user_hw? Jan 09 13:04:45 *shrug* Jan 09 13:04:49 hmm? Jan 09 13:04:53 got it from /usr/bin/pmmodempower Jan 09 13:04:54 what is that? Jan 09 13:05:07 timing advance paramter Jan 09 13:05:16 GSM stuff. If you have it, you can say how far away from the nearest basestation you are Jan 09 13:05:21 well... at least approximately Jan 09 13:05:25 rb2k: find might work Jan 09 13:05:31 I don't have a pre yet :) Jan 09 13:05:33 or grep -r . Jan 09 13:05:37 I'm just looking at the image Jan 09 13:05:39 well, how far away from the basestation you are transmitting to Jan 09 13:05:46 yes, exactly Jan 09 13:05:50 not . \. Jan 09 13:05:57 \\. Jan 09 13:05:59 make a deamon that combines that with the current GPS position Jan 09 13:06:06 don't know regex Jan 09 13:06:08 throw all of that into a k-means-clustering Jan 09 13:06:09 BANG Jan 09 13:06:24 better GSM location :) Jan 09 13:06:30 isn't that power level though? Jan 09 13:06:38 yes Jan 09 13:06:42 well no Jan 09 13:06:43 rwhitby: if i create a user in novaterm and give it root access will i be able to get to cryptofs? Jan 09 13:06:44 tmzt: power level is separate Jan 09 13:06:45 ignore me :) Jan 09 13:07:01 I mean your transmit power level Jan 09 13:07:05 in a cdma system Jan 09 13:07:09 JenP: if you're in novaterm, then you already have root access Jan 09 13:07:09 power level depnds on other stuff too (interference etc), but the timing advance is basically the distance Jan 09 13:07:12 and you have qcdiag Jan 09 13:07:25 no, your own txpower Jan 09 13:07:32 calculated by the baseband Jan 09 13:07:33 tmzt: cdma doesn't do timeslots, so no timing advance Jan 09 13:07:40 ok Jan 09 13:07:49 yeah but i want to use winscp to get files Jan 09 13:07:54 but why is there a gpio or this userhw thing? Jan 09 13:08:07 JenP: we need to set up those keys for root Jan 09 13:08:30 cool will you help me with that after i play with preware? Jan 09 13:08:34 tmzt: both of those have nothing to do with anything we're talking about Jan 09 13:08:40 JenP: yep Jan 09 13:08:41 :D Jan 09 13:09:20 didn't install 9.14 even though novaterm said it did Jan 09 13:09:27 rwhitby: right, what are you talking about? Jan 09 13:10:37 rb2k: http://webos.pastebin.com/d7939276a <- please document anything you find on the wiki Jan 09 13:10:54 JenP: that's weird Jan 09 13:11:05 wait rwhitby did you change the version # in header? Jan 09 13:11:17 if i check novaterm it saids it's installed Jan 09 13:11:27 JenP: how are you checking? Jan 09 13:11:37 rb2k: just curious as to what these pins are and why 'timing advance' wouold be one of them Jan 09 13:11:53 tmzt: it's not Jan 09 13:11:59 ok Jan 09 13:12:03 just redoing sh preware-bootstrap...it then tells me ver 9.30 already exists Jan 09 13:12:07 tmzt: http://webos.pastebin.com/d7939276a Jan 09 13:12:17 thanks rwhitby ! I'll forward that to my professor Jan 09 13:12:17 JenP: yep, overwrite it Jan 09 13:12:35 fun thing to type in Jan 09 13:12:39 rb2k: those are modem gpio's not modem parameters Jan 09 13:12:43 i did the first time. i should do it again? Jan 09 13:13:09 yeah, but it's a promising start :) Jan 09 13:13:25 JenP: are you able to cut and paste from novaterm into webos.pastebin.com ? Jan 09 13:14:25 well Jan 09 13:14:32 that's interesting Jan 09 13:14:36 is there a special keystroke to enable copying from novaterm? Jan 09 13:14:37 so R means route? Jan 09 13:14:52 how sad that msm is binary protocol, the routing seems to be quite simple Jan 09 13:19:24 rwhitby still shows 9.12 Jan 09 13:19:43 JenP: where is it showing that? Jan 09 13:19:56 multiline header Jan 09 13:20:18 JenP: can you webos.pastebin.com the log of you running preware-bootstrap? Jan 09 13:20:35 wait...if i have my emulator running will it go there instead of pre? Jan 09 13:21:44 does it say root@qemu or root@webos-device? Jan 09 13:22:13 (you can test this on the emulator instead of the Pre if you like) Jan 09 13:22:48 oh wait...sorry i'm still asleep...didn't have the phone plugged into pc...outlet instead...gimmie a sec Jan 09 13:23:18 :) Jan 09 13:24:23 JenP: hang on a sec, cause I have a new version Jan 09 13:25:20 kk Jan 09 13:25:38 is there a 1.3.5.1 image yet btw? Jan 09 13:25:45 I can only find a link to the 1.3.5 one Jan 09 13:25:51 (preparing the doctoring) Jan 09 13:25:55 nope Jan 09 13:26:09 doubt there will be Jan 09 13:26:26 ok, so I'd get that using a "regular" update? Jan 09 13:26:31 after install ing 1.3.5 Jan 09 13:26:51 yep Jan 09 13:26:59 cool Jan 09 13:27:22 JenP: get it now - works better Jan 09 13:27:28 kk Jan 09 13:27:30 ah Jan 09 13:27:30 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/223680-bell-1-3-5-1-webos-doctor-available.html Jan 09 13:27:33 there we go :) Jan 09 13:27:40 rwhitby, apparently there is :) Jan 09 13:28:15 rwhitby still 9.14? Jan 09 13:28:28 EU has 1.3.5? Jan 09 13:28:52 looks like someone forgot to update http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Jan 09 13:28:53 Kyusaku, no Jan 09 13:28:59 I'll do it! :) Jan 09 13:29:01 JenP: yep, still .14 Jan 09 13:29:08 rb2k: please do Jan 09 13:29:13 kk downloading feeds now Jan 09 13:30:04 so you're doing one of those CDMA doctor to GSM? Jan 09 13:30:17 JenP: there's one known issue with this alpha release - "Update All" has problems with updating complex patch dependencies Jan 09 13:30:28 kk Jan 09 13:30:52 ok in what do you want me to check out? Jan 09 13:30:57 JenP: that one's going to need a bit of a rewrite of that logic, so may not be fixed soon, Jan 09 13:31:13 Kyusaku, yes Jan 09 13:31:18 JenP: well, go into Applications, and filter by Feed Jan 09 13:31:24 kk Jan 09 13:31:35 you should see 3 new ones there ... Jan 09 13:31:53 rb2k: good luck, sounds like you will have fun doing it especially if you run into issues Jan 09 13:32:47 nice...but it should tell the user the price if it's a paid app Jan 09 13:32:58 Kyusaku, from what I've read: no issues so far Jan 09 13:33:41 JenP: it will in the future, don't worry. did you click install on one? Jan 09 13:33:52 yup launches app catalog Jan 09 13:34:14 so at the moment you see the price there Jan 09 13:34:32 in palm app catalog? yes Jan 09 13:34:38 update takes me to app catalog Jan 09 13:35:00 only for app catalog apps, right? Jan 09 13:35:04 the question is: should I swap the webos.tar from bell or sprint? Jan 09 13:35:40 right Jan 09 13:36:20 hmm... why is the castleumtsfw.tar 0kb in size O_o Jan 09 13:36:45 hmmm palm web...said i had update but just launced app Jan 09 13:36:47 there's a sprint 1.3.5.1 image Jan 09 13:36:49 i just used it Jan 09 13:37:37 JenP: which app? Jan 09 13:37:41 tgies, to do what? Jan 09 13:37:47 AppScoop Jan 09 13:38:08 rb2k: i just reimaged, experimenting with something dumb Jan 09 13:38:35 do you think you should change button on "install" since it means take me to app catalog and install? or will it eventually let you install right there? Jan 09 13:38:48 JenP: did the arrow say "already installed" or "update available" ? Jan 09 13:39:01 JenP: mine says Launch or Remove Jan 09 13:39:22 yup mine too...i thought the little arrow was to tell me there was an update available.. Jan 09 13:39:27 i love how evernote is basically stuck in my palm profile and gets reinstalled every time Jan 09 13:39:30 so it just means you already have this? Jan 09 13:39:56 JenP: there are two different arrows Jan 09 13:40:06 ? Jan 09 13:40:26 one says you already have it, the other says an update is available Jan 09 13:40:39 I think one points down and one points to the right Jan 09 13:40:57 so down = you have it? Jan 09 13:41:22 yep Jan 09 13:41:35 want me to write a help file for you? Jan 09 13:42:21 JenP: maybe flesh out http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware ? Jan 09 13:43:35 JenP: so it all seems to be working ok? Jan 09 13:43:41 yeah Jan 09 13:43:53 still need to add screenshots to the palm feeds Jan 09 13:43:58 yes Jan 09 13:44:02 but that's server side Jan 09 13:44:56 the app catalog feed needs prices listed Jan 09 13:45:26 i got ioquake3 running, showing the id intro movie Jan 09 13:45:32 rwhitby that link has nothing in it Jan 09 13:45:36 Kyusaku: yeah, we'll want that as a "Second Line" option Jan 09 13:45:39 the sprint image seems to have a lot more libraries and other fun stuff compared to the bell one Jan 09 13:45:55 JenP: this one: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware Jan 09 13:46:09 got it Jan 09 13:46:33 JenP: very happy for you to work any magic you can on that page Jan 09 13:46:54 so why not have a help scene that explains to the user what the arrows mean? Jan 09 13:46:56 etc Jan 09 13:47:14 you want them to goto website always? Jan 09 13:47:27 JenP: nope, extra help scenes would be awesome Jan 09 13:47:35 kk Jan 09 13:47:57 do have notes somewhere on what these things are? or do i discover as i go? Jan 09 13:48:13 JenP: the wiki page is all there is Jan 09 13:48:27 oh, and http://install.preware.org too Jan 09 13:49:06 any news on the scummVM keybindings I'm rather intrested in seeing that get done. Jan 09 13:49:46 anyone know why a gba/snes emu haven't been ported yet? or if someone's working on them Jan 09 13:49:49 ? Jan 09 13:50:13 dtzWill: its showing the id movie! Jan 09 13:50:55 ali1: !!!!! Jan 09 13:51:00 ali1: thought you were sleeping haha Jan 09 13:51:03 ali1: go go go Jan 09 13:51:04 BUT its using the vm bytecode game stuff Jan 09 13:51:13 instead of the natively compiled game code Jan 09 13:51:21 and thats effing it up for some reason Jan 09 13:51:23 Toaster23: atlanta was going to do it. Jan 09 13:51:46 ali1: what's this? Jan 09 13:52:03 rwhitby: i've been trying to port ioQuake3 Jan 09 13:52:33 ali1: what is the video played with? haha port it as a video player if nothing else pans out ;) :P Jan 09 13:52:34 actually i think its working but its not using the native game code Jan 09 13:53:01 dtzWill: i think its a bink video i'm not sure Jan 09 13:53:09 hmm, in the 1.3.1 o2 image, the castleumtsfw.tar is 12.7 MB, in the current 1.3.5.1 sprint version, it's 0kb Jan 09 13:53:15 no wait thats propietary Jan 09 13:53:21 I don't know if I actually wanna exchange the files and flash the one with 0 kb O_o Jan 09 13:54:08 ali1: working but not using native game code? you mean it's having problems with the stuff it pulls from the pak's? Jan 09 13:54:32 rwhitby: install.preware.org is the precentral forum topic right? Jan 09 13:54:34 actually its pulling the vm bytecode and using that instead Jan 09 13:54:48 the ioquake compiles the native game code for you Jan 09 13:54:57 but for some reason its using bytecode instead Jan 09 13:55:11 ali1: but you get pieces rendered?? <--- jealous Jan 09 13:55:39 JenP: yep Jan 09 13:55:43 just the id video, it chokes on the bytecode and goes into a loop of unloading and reloading it Jan 09 13:56:04 ali1: i've had q2 compiling for a long time but i can't for the life of me get it to render anything. but you can hear sound, etc, etc, hell you can use the keyboard and even start a game Jan 09 13:56:08 rb2k: yeah, Palm removed the gsm firmware from the sprint doctor Jan 09 13:56:08 ali1: really frustrating :( Jan 09 13:56:11 ok, seems that in the sprint images, the UMTS firmware is 0kb in size Jan 09 13:56:12 i think its because the bytecode intreperter sucks Jan 09 13:56:27 dtzWill: dang :( Jan 09 13:56:30 rwhitby, do you happen to know what that would mean for my flashing attempts? Jan 09 13:56:40 rb2k: nope Jan 09 13:56:42 missing firmware = just no update or no modem Jan 09 13:56:45 hmm Jan 09 13:57:02 I guess I'll just exchenge the root images then Jan 09 13:57:06 probably best Jan 09 13:59:06 okay i can force native libs but it chokes on UI still arghh Jan 09 13:59:23 SO CLOSE Jan 09 13:59:54 rb2k: if it was my CDMA Pre, I'd try it (cause the modem is no use to me here anyway), but I'm not going to try it on one of my GSM Pre's. Jan 09 14:00:08 :) Jan 09 14:00:31 the weird thing is that people already did that on the 1.3.5 firmware Jan 09 14:00:39 and that one also had a 0kb gsm firmare image Jan 09 14:00:47 maybe it works then Jan 09 14:01:00 do you trust the reports of those people Jan 09 14:01:13 rwhitby i'm gonna write up a help scene for you. For the common user. should have something in a week. Jan 09 14:01:15 I don't trust anybody :P Jan 09 14:01:27 ready to show me how to access cryptofs? Jan 09 14:01:30 JenP: awesome Jan 09 14:01:50 JenP: yep Jan 09 14:01:53 kk Jan 09 14:02:04 JenP: you're on windows XP ? Jan 09 14:02:09 no 7 Jan 09 14:02:16 ok, no worries. Jan 09 14:02:22 you've got putty and winscp installed? Jan 09 14:02:29 yuppers Jan 09 14:02:44 JenP: have you ever installed optware bootstrap before? Jan 09 14:03:03 is bell mobile also CDMA? Jan 09 14:03:06 i think so but honestly dont remember Jan 09 14:03:08 rb2k: yep Jan 09 14:03:22 JenP: can you do "ipkg-opt list_installed" ? Jan 09 14:03:43 in..? novaterm? Jan 09 14:04:11 ali1: theres a cvar you can set to skip the intro movie, something like this in autoaexec.cfg: seta g_skipIntro "1" Jan 09 14:04:17 JenP: tep Jan 09 14:04:18 yep Jan 09 14:04:51 thats not the problem Jan 09 14:05:09 intro movie plays fine, something in the main menu ui is bugging out Jan 09 14:05:19 k what am i looking for Jan 09 14:06:30 do you have console logging on so you can see what is happening? Jan 09 14:07:13 rwhitby not found Jan 09 14:07:14 yeh but all it gives me is Bad UI system trap: 53 Jan 09 14:07:24 JenP: ls -l /opt Jan 09 14:07:35 mmmm, /opt Jan 09 14:07:46 interesting, the current sprint images adds a data=writeback to the /var mount options Jan 09 14:08:12 rb2k: delayed cached writes? Jan 09 14:08:13 rb2k: really. email is stored on /var ... Jan 09 14:08:32 rwhitby you want mt to type -l/opt in novaterm? Jan 09 14:08:50 JenP: yep, with a space before the / Jan 09 14:08:54 kk Jan 09 14:08:57 that was only compared to the 1.3.1 o2 image Jan 09 14:09:08 not found Jan 09 14:09:08 Does anyone know of a way to have multiple TTY sessions? Jan 09 14:09:17 JenP: ok, you're an optware virgin then ;-) Jan 09 14:09:24 lol kk Jan 09 14:09:44 JenP: just open preware, go to the Optware section, and install OpenSSH SFTP Server Jan 09 14:09:53 kk Jan 09 14:10:25 JenP: you can access the Pre with WinSCP over wifi, right? Jan 09 14:10:28 ali1: trap 53 has to do with the cd key from what I am reading Jan 09 14:10:32 SN95> Does anyone know of a way to have multiple TTY sessions? (To the Pre.. using novaproxy :) ) Jan 09 14:10:45 SN95: yes, don't use novaproxy. Jan 09 14:10:51 i always plug it into the pc Jan 09 14:10:54 SN95: novaproxy is ancient and deprecated Jan 09 14:11:07 SN95: just use the Palm SDK to connect to the Pre Jan 09 14:11:26 JenP: for WinSCP it will need to be set up for wifi Jan 09 14:11:53 (you can still use novaterm over the usb cable) Jan 09 14:11:55 ali1: theres a cl_cdkey cvar Jan 09 14:12:12 kk Jan 09 14:12:35 rwhitby: but how do I get multiple sessions? Jan 09 14:12:59 SN95: Just run novaterm multiple times Jan 09 14:13:00 ( I don't have wifi, so cant use ssh) Jan 09 14:13:39 SN95: you don't need wifi or ssh to access the Pre using novaterm from the Palm SDK Jan 09 14:14:18 i know.. i was trying to explain why i need it , missed your message Jan 09 14:14:36 thanks ! Jan 09 14:16:09 kk rwhitby done Jan 09 14:16:33 JenP: now we follow http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH Jan 09 14:16:44 kk Jan 09 14:16:54 JenP: specifically, http://unixwiz.net/techtips/putty-openssh.html Jan 09 14:17:04 joshua: what would i set that to? Jan 09 14:17:43 JenP: Hostname: dbserver should be changed to whatever the hostname or IP address is of the Pre on your LAN Jan 09 14:18:04 Auto-login username: steve should be changed to root Jan 09 14:18:30 k...slow down...read webos-internals or puttyssh first? Jan 09 14:18:55 JenP: first one points to the second Jan 09 14:19:21 JenP: start with the wiki, and divert to the second at the right place Jan 09 14:19:37 kk Jan 09 14:19:37 ali1: see my PM, and this should be helpful: http://www.ioquake.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1542 Jan 09 14:19:46 are there any hints on the wiki on how to add a library to the pdk environment? it would of course be a library that exists on the pre already but headers are missing from the pdk structure Jan 09 14:19:47 is anyone using novaterm with W7 ? Jan 09 14:20:24 SN95: JenP is Jan 09 14:20:37 yup Jan 09 14:20:45 did you need to do anything special? Jan 09 14:20:47 timepants: look in the packages subdir, and copy a makefile. Jan 09 14:21:06 god it takes a long time to build Jan 09 14:21:18 I get an overflow exception for every key_down event ! Jan 09 14:21:33 timepants: that gets you the libs (from the doctor), as long as you name the package correctly (it needs to match the package name in /usr/lib/ipkg/info/ Jan 09 14:21:50 oh excellent, i see how it works Jan 09 14:21:52 thank you Jan 09 14:22:11 timepants: for headers, you get the same package from opensource.palm.com and build enough to install the headers you need Jan 09 14:22:40 timepants: there are a couple of examples of that, e.g. libsdl Jan 09 14:23:27 i see it now, thats all i needed :D Jan 09 14:24:21 JenP: Are you using 64bit W7? Jan 09 14:24:26 yes Jan 09 14:24:27 timepants: when you're ready to contribute new subdirs under packages, just let me know. Jan 09 14:24:51 (and we'll get you commit access) Jan 09 14:24:53 kk Jan 09 14:25:27 rb2k: why would Sprint have umts firmware? Jan 09 14:25:36 dtzWill: i'm getting garbled screen ??? Jan 09 14:26:06 ali1: you set the major/minor version, right? and SDL is init'ing with OPENGLES ? Jan 09 14:26:20 yeah, i've had that set up... Jan 09 14:26:25 man you guys never stop Jan 09 14:26:28 let me check Jan 09 14:26:47 dtzWill: but yeah i'm getting sound Jan 09 14:26:52 so its kind of working Jan 09 14:27:09 ali1: that's what i have w/q2 Jan 09 14:27:10 :/ Jan 09 14:27:57 ali1: only my screen isn't garbled anymore, and it renders.. /some/ things. it's hard to describe; descibing it well is related to me having no idea what is wrong Jan 09 14:28:02 *cough nanogl cough* Jan 09 14:29:11 too bad the unreal source code is old and crusty and hasn't been touched in 9 years http://openut.sourceforge.net/ Jan 09 14:29:29 thats not unreal source Jan 09 14:29:35 just tools and stuff Jan 09 14:29:47 rwhitby it keeps failing on me...i never get the enter password Jan 09 14:30:03 rwhitby: ping Jan 09 14:30:14 JenP: oh, yeah, that's intentional - we don't allow passwords Jan 09 14:30:24 JenP: skip to the creating the keypair bit Jan 09 14:30:27 jauderho: gu Jan 09 14:30:30 kk Jan 09 14:30:39 just did a ipkg-opt update and got the following Jan 09 14:30:41 Configuring patch Jan 09 14:30:41 update-alternatives: Linking //opt/bin/patch to /opt/bin/patch-patch Jan 09 14:30:52 that doesnt look right... Jan 09 14:31:13 tmzt, the file is there and it's just 0 kb in size Jan 09 14:31:22 or was that intentional? Jan 09 14:31:23 it is also in the config file of the updater Jan 09 14:31:24 jauderho: does /opt/bin/patch-patch exist? Jan 09 14:31:49 it looks like /opt/bin/patch is a link to /opt/bin/patch-patch Jan 09 14:31:49 tmzt: up to 1.3.1, all doctor images had both modem firmware Jan 09 14:32:02 rwhitby still up? Jan 09 14:32:03 jauderho: yes, that is how update-alternatives work Jan 09 14:32:23 rboatright: yup, see http://twitpic.com/xcpzh Jan 09 14:32:42 rwhitby: okay just checking. Jan 09 14:33:13 hahahahahaha Jan 09 14:33:35 jauderho: if two packages can install the same pathname, then there is a priority, and update-alternatives links according to the priority Jan 09 14:33:41 rwhitby it just keeps failing Jan 09 14:33:42 what happens when you pick an app cat app? Jan 09 14:34:01 network error connectiontimeout Jan 09 14:35:00 jen. did you sleep? Jan 09 14:35:31 kinda Jan 09 14:35:34 not really Jan 09 14:35:43 rwhitby: is there a way to get the old ui back for preware? mine only shows Available Packages, Install Packages, List of Everything and no Available Patches (I have to go under Avail Pkgs to see) Jan 09 14:35:59 was gonna go to bed after i got this working Jan 09 14:36:14 JenP: can you ping the Pre from your win7 host? Jan 09 14:36:21 jauderho: in preferences Jan 09 14:36:42 rboatright: it launches the app page in app cat Jan 09 14:36:50 yup Jan 09 14:36:54 0 lost Jan 09 14:37:00 cool Jan 09 14:37:01 rboatright: oh, it shows the details, and launches that if you hit install Jan 09 14:37:12 rwhitby: what do I have to change to show available patches? partial app limit fix = yes? Jan 09 14:37:28 rwhitby am i suppose to put my wifi ip in host name or wan ip Jan 09 14:37:38 JenP: wifi Jan 09 14:38:00 port 22 still? Jan 09 14:38:01 jauderho: show available types Jan 09 14:38:04 JenP: yep Jan 09 14:38:19 immediete fail Jan 09 14:38:33 JenP: novaterm into the Pre, and type "ps -ef | grep ssh" Jan 09 14:38:52 rwhitby: ah cool! didnt notice that. thx. Jan 09 14:39:10 k Jan 09 14:39:21 what am i looking for Jan 09 14:39:53 JenP: it should show a line for openssh running Jan 09 14:40:31 morning. Jan 09 14:40:32 no lots of root #### ...time....etc Jan 09 14:40:53 feet still hurt. I would go buy pain reliver, but don't want to walk. :) old and fat sucks. Jan 09 14:40:57 JenP: like http://webos.pastebin.com/d3621caf7 Jan 09 14:41:04 rwhitby do i need to restart my phone after installing the optware thing Jan 09 14:41:10 JenP: shouldn't need to Jan 09 14:41:14 rboatright ohhhhh Jan 09 14:41:23 how do i copy out of novaterm Jan 09 14:41:24 rboatright: you home yet? Jan 09 14:41:29 that was odd. I was saying that the icon for Contacts had disappeared for me earlier leaving a blank outline. restarting luna seems to have fixed it. Jan 09 14:41:36 airport. Jan 09 14:41:42 waiting Jan 09 14:41:47 weird thing was that it was the only one missing. Jan 09 14:42:14 rboatright: sucks :( Jan 09 14:42:15 jenp you can not. it was a quick hack by geist Jan 09 14:42:31 btw, couple of observations. Jan 09 14:42:33 bleh Jan 09 14:42:45 yep Jan 09 14:42:47 I can see the app catalog just fine over wifi in taiwan Jan 09 14:42:49 k i'm restarting phone to be safe Jan 09 14:43:04 with all 1000+ apps Jan 09 14:43:06 why exactly did he make a windows novacom terminal anyway? developers? Jan 09 14:43:17 JenP: no don't restart your phone :( Jan 09 14:43:23 jauderho: in preware? Jan 09 14:43:29 too late Jan 09 14:43:29 no. Jan 09 14:43:41 rwhitby: using the standard app catalog app Jan 09 14:43:52 that one line at a time "terminal" bites Jan 09 14:43:58 jauderho: yeah, that's expected - doesn't matter where you are in the world Jan 09 14:44:17 zsocwerkin: he felt sorry for windows people Jan 09 14:44:29 rwhitby: how do you troubleshoot at 2am? lol Jan 09 14:44:30 zsoc because I asked him to. Jan 09 14:44:30 zsocwerkin: since mac and linux get novaterm in the SDK by default Jan 09 14:44:34 nicely Jan 09 14:44:37 yay.. got novaterm working, needed to add the 32BIT flag to the assembly Jan 09 14:44:39 :D Jan 09 14:44:41 zsocwerkin: only 1:15am here Jan 09 14:44:50 rwhitby: I wonder what palm uses to key different phones. I had originally thought it was geo ip based. Jan 09 14:44:50 should have read the wiki... :( Jan 09 14:44:52 ah, only half as bad ;) Jan 09 14:44:55 8:45am here Jan 09 14:45:02 zsocwerkin: JenP is going to write a Preware help screen for me, so she gets special treatment. Jan 09 14:45:23 sn95 novaterm on 64 bit windows? Jan 09 14:45:25 jauderho: it's your profile and phone unique id (i.e. IMEI or MEID) Jan 09 14:45:29 yes Jan 09 14:45:34 leaving google maps open with the latitude hack seems to cause latitude to automatically update every X mins. Jan 09 14:45:38 rwhitby: ah. Jan 09 14:45:43 rwhitby: oh I wasn't asking _why_, I was asking _how_, lol. I couldn't help someone tie their shoes at 1am Jan 09 14:45:45 lol...yeah be nice. i get confused easily and often...;-) Jan 09 14:45:54 recompiled or just use modify. Jan 09 14:45:57 JenP: welcome to my world. Jan 09 14:46:03 smiles Jan 09 14:46:11 oh yeah, latitude works in taiwan. Jan 09 14:46:14 just modified it w/ the corflags tool Jan 09 14:46:28 zsoc, he wrote novacom for him it was trivial Jan 09 14:46:29 jauderho: you're in taiwan? Jan 09 14:46:41 right now, yes Jan 09 14:46:46 cool Jan 09 14:46:52 not usually here. just here for a bit Jan 09 14:47:01 rboatright: it took two goes for the preware mod: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=commitdiff;h=14397491ca399ea5a85e91400dfed6492e537826 and http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=commitdiff;h=45e15718d8672efe21bf6341dd3b19b7cb677a5f Jan 09 14:47:12 just interesting to see what works and not while out of country. Jan 09 14:47:19 rboatright: yeah I get that impression from him Jan 09 14:47:22 rwhitby did etf fix gps bug? 135 Jan 09 14:47:25 is there a script that will add palm catalog feeds and web feed? Jan 09 14:47:28 ok do i need to download puttygen? Jan 09 14:47:46 rboatright: hopefully oil won't throw up in disgust at my javascript coding ability Jan 09 14:47:59 JenP: oh, you haven't created a key yet? Jan 09 14:48:01 hehehe Jan 09 14:48:01 en0x: to preware? rod is doing / just did it Jan 09 14:48:10 no Jan 09 14:48:13 zsocwerkin, correct Jan 09 14:48:31 JenP: http://unixwiz.net/techtips/putty-openssh.html#keypair Jan 09 14:48:32 en0x intesting feed Jan 09 14:49:19 bbl Jan 09 14:49:29 use the last 3 lines of http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware to get it, and accept testing feed. be aware that you are testing very new functionality (not only in this part, but in many other parts), so there will be bugs. Jan 09 14:50:05 rwhitby: got tired of telling people to figure it out themselves? Jan 09 14:50:17 rwhitby where do i find puttygen? Jan 09 14:50:40 JenP: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html Jan 09 14:51:07 that wiki page needs some work Jan 09 14:51:16 It has the same paragraph twice at the bottom. Jan 09 14:51:34 well, sentence Jan 09 14:51:39 fix it Jan 09 14:52:20 moving to chair and laptop bbl Jan 09 14:52:30 rboatright: I'm considering making the bootstrap the preferred method ... Jan 09 14:52:45 ird it's a wiki... fix it. Jan 09 14:53:02 rwhitby I understand Jan 09 14:53:21 rboatright: that's the plan :p Jan 09 14:53:40 have to remember my password.. Jan 09 14:53:52 I love xmarks. Jan 09 14:54:24 rwhitby I wonder if we could ask geist to write a minimal novacom for preware installer... Jan 09 14:54:38 rboatright: the problem is the drivers Jan 09 14:54:51 rboatright: if they were separated, we could write it. Jan 09 14:55:10 Apparently the wiki doesn't want me to fix it. It says the section doesn't exist. Jan 09 14:55:27 ird: hit the edit button at the top Jan 09 14:55:33 rboatright: can we fix that at all? Jan 09 14:55:33 nodnod butbpadalino has linux drivers, if geist wrote windows drivers for us... Jan 09 14:55:51 rwhitby: thanks Jan 09 14:55:53 rwhitby ok created keys...at install public key on linus system...? Jan 09 14:55:59 rboatright: ok, minimal novacom drivers on windows would be good Jan 09 14:56:23 yep Jan 09 14:56:30 rwhitby: I have been instructing people to use the bootstrap to fix most 135 issues, it's just 1000 times easier and works 99% of the time. Jan 09 14:56:54 jenp now copy over the public key Jan 09 14:56:57 rwhitby: what we do need tho are --options for 'yes to all' or 'yes to all but alpha' Jan 09 14:57:01 to where? Jan 09 14:57:05 JenP: you need to cut and paste the text as shown, and put it in an authorized_keys file Jan 09 14:57:24 JenP: then plugin your Pre as USB drive, and move that authorized_keys file over to /media/internal Jan 09 14:57:31 JenP: then get into the Pre in novaterm Jan 09 14:57:39 no paste in windows novaterm Jan 09 14:57:50 use usb mode Jan 09 14:58:46 rboatright: cut and paste from puttygen to notepad on windows, then usb mode it across Jan 09 14:59:22 rwhtby puttygen makes a file Jan 09 15:00:07 rboatright: not for authorized_keys it doesn't Jan 09 15:00:25 the only way to get it is cut and paste Jan 09 15:00:53 rwhitby: why do I only see 979 app catalog apps? Jan 09 15:01:39 zsocwerkin: good question. haven't worked out the answer yet. Jan 09 15:01:53 I see Jan 09 15:01:57 zsocwerkin: I suspect an error in the conversion script on preware.org server Jan 09 15:02:17 ah, from certain characters and what nots Jan 09 15:02:24 zsocwerkin: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=scripts/palm-scraper.py Jan 09 15:02:25 zsocwerkin: we can get app catalog feeds into preware? Jan 09 15:02:32 ird: yep Jan 09 15:02:35 k plugged in, as usb...looking in drive...no media Jan 09 15:02:38 awesome Jan 09 15:02:48 * ird goes to do it Jan 09 15:02:53 oh Jan 09 15:02:55 it's done Jan 09 15:02:56 :D Jan 09 15:03:03 you guys rock Jan 09 15:03:13 yeah, we do, don't we? Jan 09 15:03:40 WebOS-Internals: Our rockstars aren't like your rockstars Jan 09 15:03:56 rwhitby i can't find media\internal Jan 09 15:04:13 JenP: did you copy it to the USB drive in windows? Jan 09 15:04:38 (to wherever the Pre usb drive is mounted in windows) Jan 09 15:04:56 dtzWill: did you get garbled screen too? Jan 09 15:05:01 am i suppose to make that folder? Jan 09 15:05:02 enh? Jan 09 15:05:21 ird what did you have to do to see the app catalog feed? I dont see it here. Jan 09 15:05:26 JenP: /media/internal is where the drive mounts. you're already in it Jan 09 15:05:34 oh thanks Jan 09 15:05:44 :) Jan 09 15:05:46 jauderho: run the preware bootstrap and install the alpha/beta version.. Jan 09 15:05:58 ird: alpha, very alpha. Jan 09 15:05:59 Or add the testing feeds to your feeds and update them.. Jan 09 15:06:01 so i updated my preware to 0.9.14 andi I dont have plam feeds Jan 09 15:06:10 ok copied and pasted Jan 09 15:06:18 en0x: I expect you didn't run the bootstrap script Jan 09 15:06:31 JenP: so you see it in /media/internal on the Pre / Jan 09 15:06:32 ? Jan 09 15:06:36 en0x: that's because you fail Jan 09 15:06:40 yap Jan 09 15:06:41 :( Jan 09 15:06:50 am i the only one having issues linking zlib, i'm losing my mind Jan 09 15:06:55 en0x: you need ipkgservice 0.9.30 for the feeds Jan 09 15:07:09 timepants: what host OS ? Jan 09 15:07:21 i do Jan 09 15:07:39 ubuntu 64-bit, but its just the configure script can't find it Jan 09 15:07:40 what i see is REmovable disk J ....Palm pre....and lost of subfolders in it...downloads, wallpapers...DCIM Jan 09 15:07:54 sb2-show path shows the right place, the files exist etc Jan 09 15:07:57 JenP: put the authorized_keys file in the top level of J: Jan 09 15:08:00 er maybe i dont Jan 09 15:08:01 lol Jan 09 15:08:05 kk Jan 09 15:08:09 going ot fix it Jan 09 15:08:16 arg.. hide app vendors patch is stuck.. Jan 09 15:08:27 en0x: use the bootstrap script. seriously. Jan 09 15:08:29 ali1: my game isn't rendering, if that's what you mean Jan 09 15:09:23 dtzWill: mine keeps the last frame of the video when it was stopped, and when i minimize it, it goes garbled screen until i play another video Jan 09 15:09:28 rwhitby, ok Jan 09 15:09:33 lemme login to my pre Jan 09 15:10:39 rwhitby: are there plans for a way to fix patches that get broke? IE when Preware thinks they're installed but they're not. Jan 09 15:11:05 ird: they shouldn't get broken. EPR is the way to fix them Jan 09 15:11:12 great! Jan 09 15:11:14 dtzWill: i'm just wondering if its the same problem Jan 09 15:11:27 rwhitby: actually, it is installed.. but I can't remove it for some reason. Jan 09 15:11:34 ird: and if you don't want to remove them all, you can remove 1 from command line Jan 09 15:11:42 "Unreversed patch detected" Jan 09 15:11:46 ird: EPR is installed you say? Jan 09 15:11:56 not yet.. Jan 09 15:12:06 * zsocwerkin facepalms Jan 09 15:12:28 ird: then it's not fixed yet Jan 09 15:12:37 ird: epr will fix it, if you don't want to remove ALL your patches you can remove just that one from terminal Jan 09 15:12:51 zsocwerkin: or just make it worse in the process ... Jan 09 15:13:09 rwhitby, it did the trick I had 0.9.30 installed but preware reinstalled it and now all looks good Jan 09 15:13:16 What does my error mean? Jan 09 15:13:21 rwhitby: it's not difficult to mimic the functionality of EPR... ird is not AM imo :) Jan 09 15:13:36 ird: we'll see ... Jan 09 15:13:44 en0x: postinsts ftw :p Jan 09 15:13:57 s/ird/zsocwerkin/ Jan 09 15:13:57 rwhitby meant: zsocwerkin: we'll see ... Jan 09 15:14:26 ok i copied it into root Jan 09 15:14:35 ird: bah just run epr lol Jan 09 15:14:43 en0x: let me guess, you didn't run the postins, or you didn't use IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT when you ran the postinst, or you used /var ? Jan 09 15:14:50 the path i put in putty for authentication key is to the file on my pc right? Jan 09 15:14:55 JenP: ls -l /home/root/.ssh Jan 09 15:15:03 that's cheating 3 options in 1 guess Jan 09 15:15:05 JenP: yes, the .ppk file Jan 09 15:15:52 * rwhitby is glad that JenP is doing this, cause he knows she will teach others well Jan 09 15:16:34 is that a euphamism for "this better be worth my time?" :D :D Jan 09 15:16:55 lol...yeah..i'll review my notes and put something together...when i'm more awake Jan 09 15:17:02 zsocwerkin: JenP has already committed to writing Preware help files. front of queue. Jan 09 15:17:06 ok so in novaterm Jan 09 15:17:08 lol Jan 09 15:17:22 type -l ..... Jan 09 15:17:26 JenP: what's the output of "ls -l /home/root/.ssh" Jan 09 15:17:28 rwhitby: just a jest :) sry Jan 09 15:18:06 zsocwerkin: nod Jan 09 15:18:08 are you doing is or ls? for ls -l Jan 09 15:18:22 JenP: L for larry Jan 09 15:18:43 ls as in list :) Jan 09 15:18:49 JenP: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Basic_Linux_Use#ls Jan 09 15:18:57 no such file or directory Jan 09 15:19:17 JenP: ok, so the authorized_keys file is in /media/internal on the Pre ? Jan 09 15:19:59 * rwhitby notes that the fact that JenP is taking notes is a very good sign for this being worth my while Jan 09 15:20:25 smiles...yes authorized_keys2.ppk is on pre's root Jan 09 15:20:45 JenP: oh, hang on there Jan 09 15:21:17 JenP: please note for clarification, /media/internal is only the 'root' (or top level directory) of where it mounts in USB mode Jan 09 15:21:20 JenP: did you cut and paste the text starting with ssh-rsa AAAA ..... into that file? Jan 09 15:21:48 no i thought it saved it into it automatically...1 sec Jan 09 15:22:46 JenP: ah, the "Save Public Key" on Puttygen is actually *not* what you want to do Jan 09 15:23:13 ok? Jan 09 15:23:16 JenP: you need to cut and paste just like in the "Install public key on Linux system" section Jan 09 15:23:38 "With puttygen still open, highlight the entire "Public Key for pasting into OpenSSH authorized_keys file" area and type control-C to copy to the local system's clipboard. This is essentially the same data as found in the saved public-key file, but it's in a form which can be directly used on the Linux system." Jan 09 15:23:49 If I told you guys I had boobies would you give me some help? Jan 09 15:23:52 jeez Jan 09 15:24:18 ird: she's writing help files for preware. Jan 09 15:24:27 ird: if you had a history of proof-reading the splash-screen text of Preware and giving good input for making it better, yes. Jan 09 15:24:30 ird: I already gave you advice :p Jan 09 15:24:45 I was only joking don't get offended. Jan 09 15:24:48 I'll take care of it. Jan 09 15:25:04 well they're really great boobies....what can i say Jan 09 15:25:18 JenP: nice one Jan 09 15:25:21 ok so i'm confused Jan 09 15:25:23 * zsocwerkin gasps Jan 09 15:25:44 JenP: there are two types of public key formats Jan 09 15:25:53 am i pasting the code i copied into the private.ppk file i saved from puttygen? Jan 09 15:26:11 one type (the one we don't want) is saved when you push the "save public key" button. go figure. Jan 09 15:26:27 the other type (the one we do want) is in that text box, starting with ssh-rsa AAAA...... Jan 09 15:26:52 kk Jan 09 15:26:55 the bit we do want needs to be cut and pasted into a new file. call it "authorized_keys" (no file extension) Jan 09 15:27:13 that authorized_keys file then gets moved to the Pre Jan 09 15:28:26 kk Jan 09 15:28:28 done Jan 09 15:28:58 JenP: ls -l /media/internal/authorized_keys Jan 09 15:29:24 Hi All. I noticed there was a Xserver project called KDrive which was the rename of TinyX that later could use SDL as a display. I see references to people using 'Xsdl' to get GP32 X11. Does anyone know where the latest source is for that? Everything I read on google seems to be stale. Jan 09 15:29:45 zonyl: kdrive is in openembedded Jan 09 15:30:11 should i disconnect as usb first? Jan 09 15:30:43 rwhitby: Im searching the oe tree and am lost ;) Jan 09 15:31:00 http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/xserver-kdrive-common Jan 09 15:31:10 yeah found it Jan 09 15:31:23 JenP: cat /media/inernal/authorized_keys Jan 09 15:31:32 rwhitby: Thank you!! Jan 09 15:31:46 zonyl: talk to the guys in #oe if you want more info Jan 09 15:32:06 rwhitby: I am on there and they arent too chatty Jan 09 15:32:07 k put a long string of text up Jan 09 15:32:46 zonyl: ah, actually http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/xorg-xserver Jan 09 15:32:58 JenP: does it match the window in puttygen? Jan 09 15:33:14 seems to Jan 09 15:33:21 rwhitby: The recipies name was key ;) Jan 09 15:33:26 JenP: mkdir -p /home/root/.ssh Jan 09 15:33:48 JenP: mv /media/internal/authorized_keys /home/root/.ssh/ Jan 09 15:34:37 JenP: then tell me the output of "ls -l /home/root/.ssh" Jan 09 15:35:11 nothing Jan 09 15:35:13 zonyl: I reckon http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive-xomap_1.1.99.3.bb might be interesting Jan 09 15:35:23 JenP: did you do the mv command ? Jan 09 15:35:25 just goes to new line promtp Jan 09 15:35:54 yes it bput up a bunch of stuff...usage: mv....options.... Jan 09 15:35:55 JenP: did the 'mv' command before it give any output? Jan 09 15:36:12 JenP: check for typos on the mv command Jan 09 15:36:14 yeah looks like directions on how to use it Jan 09 15:36:15 kk Jan 09 15:37:13 JenP: it is popular for linux utilities to output a shortened helpfile if you try to use the utility improperly Jan 09 15:37:39 got it Jan 09 15:37:48 didn't realize there was a space after keys Jan 09 15:39:00 so ls -l /home/root/.ssh gives -rwxr-xr-x 1 root....date time...authorized_keys Jan 09 15:39:11 JenP: try to winscp now Jan 09 15:39:14 kk Jan 09 15:41:15 rwhitby: Very nice. I would still like to wedge X11 in as a card though via SDL so I can play nicely with WebOS. Jan 09 15:41:16 it wants a username and password Jan 09 15:41:47 JenP: did you point WinSCP at the .ppk file that is the saved private key ? Jan 09 15:41:54 username is root Jan 09 15:42:11 if it's using the ppk private key file, it will not ask for a password Jan 09 15:42:49 is that the ppk file i saved in putty gen or the authorized_keys with no file ext? Jan 09 15:43:49 JenP: the private key ppk file Jan 09 15:44:07 not the public key ppk file, nor the authorized_keys file Jan 09 15:44:19 yeah it worked! Jan 09 15:45:12 JenP: you can save that profile in winscp, and then it's a single click login Jan 09 15:45:26 awesome! Jan 09 15:45:42 thanks for showing me this. Jan 09 15:45:44 JenP: and you can use the same private key file in putty to log in Jan 09 15:46:06 i do have some questions on the process for when i docu, but i'll ask them after i get a few hours sleep Jan 09 15:46:16 JenP: next week: how to commit to a git repository Jan 09 15:46:22 lol Jan 09 15:46:41 rwhitby...how would you like me to give you the scene ete for help...in git? Jan 09 15:46:52 jenp will be an open source guru soon Jan 09 15:47:04 JenP: I'd like you to update the Preware source repository with the new webOS code ;-) Jan 09 15:47:28 smiles...i'll be happy to update the repository with my help files...the rest is up to you Jan 09 15:47:33 tortise svn cool? Jan 09 15:48:01 i need an account yes? Jan 09 15:48:03 JenP: http://gitcasts.com/posts/git-on-windows Jan 09 15:48:33 lol...more to learn... Jan 09 15:48:37 JenP: you will send me the contents of that authorized_keys file (the public bit) and then you will use the corresponding private key for access Jan 09 15:48:46 kk Jan 09 15:48:57 (see, I had an ulterior motive all along) Jan 09 15:49:08 LOL Jan 09 15:49:32 ok, I'm off to bed. have fun with the new Palm feeds ... Jan 09 15:49:35 k guys i'm gonna try to get some sleep Jan 09 15:49:39 g'nite Jan 09 15:50:02 * rwhitby figures the Preware packages number will be over 2500 by tomorrow Jan 09 15:50:45 Then Katie can create another bar chart, 2.5 times as high ... Jan 09 15:53:56 * rwhitby bbt Jan 09 16:39:00 Happy Saturday all Jan 09 16:39:49 Can someone point me in the right direction. I have some patches left over from pre 1.3.5 that I can't get rid of. Can I just delete them from the file system? Jan 09 16:46:59 ESP: are you familiar with EPR? Jan 09 16:48:02 "configure: error: Cannot find GL library" Jan 09 16:48:36 can anyone help me with that, Im trying to compile tuxracer from the webos-internals git Jan 09 16:48:38 :( Jan 09 16:48:39 EPR? no Jan 09 16:48:45 noooo not tuxracer Jan 09 16:48:52 sign of the apocalypse Jan 09 16:48:59 lol Jan 09 16:49:23 ESP, go into preware, list of everything, type in emergency... find the emergency patch recovery and install it... after it installs (could take a bit depending on how many patches there are) your phone will reboot, then you are good Jan 09 16:49:52 if you still have problems you could try the WebOS Repair Utility Jan 09 16:50:02 I'll give it a go, brb Jan 09 16:50:23 ESP: wait Jan 09 16:50:25 linksocc, I don't think they have tuxracer quite working yet Jan 09 16:50:25 k Jan 09 16:50:42 linksocc: egau is pretty much done porting it Jan 09 16:50:47 they might though, I know yesterday they were still workin on it Jan 09 16:51:09 ESP: it will remove _all_ your patches, just letting you knw first Jan 09 16:51:10 ahh, so it is almost done then? Jan 09 16:51:21 yeah, i'd rather not do that Jan 09 16:51:40 what is the location where it stored patches pre 1.3.5 Jan 09 16:51:43 can't wait for tuxracer Jan 09 16:51:47 cool but can anybody help me with that so i can use it as a learning experiment Jan 09 16:51:50 ESP: there are other ways but it involves command line access and waiting for someone knowledgeable on the subject Jan 09 16:52:14 yeah i'm ssh'd in just not a Linux expert Jan 09 16:52:18 ESP: in 135 the ipkg offline root changed from /var to /media/cryptofs/apps Jan 09 16:52:24 geist: those 1.3.5 kernel patches seem to be missing quite a bit, the board-chuck is there but the core msm stuff seems not to be Jan 09 16:52:48 right... what is the old location preware stored the patches Jan 09 16:52:51 linksocc: your problem seems to be you don't have the gles libraries Jan 09 16:53:17 so i install those using the normal apt-get or how Jan 09 16:53:39 tmzt: dunno, we drop what we build Jan 09 16:53:41 what is missing? Jan 09 16:53:44 oh just /var Jan 09 16:53:54 boy ... libtool is a PITA Jan 09 16:53:56 i assume you're talking about the pixi stuff Jan 09 16:54:02 yes, pixi Jan 09 16:54:16 with this -rpath stuff Jan 09 16:54:27 if you select the chuck defconfig it wont build is what you're saying? Jan 09 16:54:30 haven't tired building but there's basically no qualcomm code in there Jan 09 16:54:38 yes, why would there be? Jan 09 16:54:53 the msm port of linux is written almost entirely by Android Jan 09 16:55:14 arch/arm/mach-msm is where the upper level port is Jan 09 16:55:21 gpio mux rpc proc_comm rpcrouter Jan 09 16:55:28 again, does it build? Jan 09 16:55:36 if it doesn't then someone screwed up and we need to fix Jan 09 16:55:40 sorry, booting the computer Jan 09 16:55:42 if it does, then you're looking at the wrong bits Jan 09 16:55:58 zsocwerkin: ported tuxracer to gles? Jan 09 16:57:01 xcomp: yes, to ES1.1 Jan 09 16:57:10 wow, that is awesome. Jan 09 16:57:22 grar, I forgot to bring the little plug on the end of my macbook charger Jan 09 16:57:24 that is going to be a very popular game Jan 09 16:57:32 might have to go find a radio shack Jan 09 16:57:36 yes I am excited for it Jan 09 16:57:51 tuxracer was made for the accelerometer Jan 09 16:58:01 zsocwerkin, you have a chance to try out the new HUD in Quake yet? Jan 09 16:58:02 linksocc: honestly you're trying to do something a bit advanced. I can't tell you what lib it's looking for because I don't have the configure file. but it's probably libGL.so.1 Jan 09 16:58:03 yes it was! :D Jan 09 16:58:20 cryptk: yes it's excellent Jan 09 16:58:27 xcomp: good call about tuxracer :) Jan 09 16:58:37 I agree, dtzWill you did a phenominal job on the quake hud Jan 09 16:58:54 geist: I don't think shack's carry apple stuff Jan 09 16:59:02 haha thanks cryptk Jan 09 16:59:09 cryptk: glad you like it :D Jan 09 16:59:25 just wait until you see what's in store next.... :) Jan 09 16:59:27 :P Jan 09 16:59:35 * dtzWill wishes he had something in store Jan 09 16:59:40 * dtzWill regrets pretending he did Jan 09 17:00:20 geist: hmm, it goes back to VERSATILE after running ARCH=arm make chuck_defconfig Jan 09 17:00:46 there's nothing in my arch/arm/mach-msm except board-chuck.c Jan 09 17:00:53 checking the patch again Jan 09 17:01:19 ah, are you applying against the right base? Jan 09 17:01:37 sounds like the patch requires a different base Jan 09 17:01:47 like one of the android-msm branches Jan 09 17:02:05 back in a few minutes, gotta get something from the store Jan 09 17:02:21 a ca 2.6.24? Jan 09 17:02:22 ok Jan 09 17:02:50 dtzWill: all I got is this evas demo I've been trying to build for a couple of days now Jan 09 17:03:10 so many dependencies and libtool issues to deal with Jan 09 17:04:52 poop crosscompile noobs Jan 09 17:05:09 but if evas works, it should be great for anyone developing games/graphics intensive stuff Jan 09 17:05:36 like an "easy button" for sdl Jan 09 17:06:03 my easy button is called "wait for it to show up on preware" Jan 09 17:06:05 xcomp: evas? Jan 09 17:06:10 E17 would be slick on the Pre Jan 09 17:06:15 evas is part of EFL Jan 09 17:06:16 and I let the people I trust to code more than myself take care of it, lol Jan 09 17:06:39 dtzWill: highly optimized canvas library Jan 09 17:06:51 dtzWill: EFL == enlightenment foundation libraries Jan 09 17:07:02 simple api Jan 09 17:07:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_Foundation_Libraries Jan 09 17:07:11 PuffTheMagic, xcomp: gotcha now, ty. i thought enlightenment was mainlyh a wm Jan 09 17:07:20 dtzWill: it is Jan 09 17:07:23 PuffTheMagic: e17 requires X...so no go on that one Jan 09 17:07:23 :) Jan 09 17:07:25 PuffTheMagic: ty, at least it wasn't a lmgtfy link :) Jan 09 17:07:27 but its written with it own language Jan 09 17:07:46 xcomp: i beleive it can be done with directfb Jan 09 17:08:02 PuffTheMagic: not e17 itsel Jan 09 17:08:04 *itself Jan 09 17:08:34 evas can output to FB and SDL Jan 09 17:08:39 which is what I'm trying to build and demo Jan 09 17:08:50 that would be hot Jan 09 17:08:58 but e17 the desktop is written specifically for X Jan 09 17:09:02 xcomp: i think i will have to join you on that venture Jan 09 17:09:08 cause making widgets in pure sdl sucks Jan 09 17:09:37 oh, and it outputs to gles too Jan 09 17:10:36 ./configure --enable-gl-flavor-gles --enable-gles-variety-sgx --enable-buffer --disable-software-xlib --disable-xrender-x11 --disable-gl-x11 --disable-software-xcb --disable-xrender-xcb --disable-software-gdi --disable-software-ddraw --disable-direct3d --disable-quartz --disable-gl-glew --enable-software-sdl --enable-fb --disable-directfb --disable-software-16-x11 --disable-software-16-ddraw --enable-sdl-primitive Jan 09 17:11:06 xcomp: sounds great, GL Jan 09 17:12:23 I finally got the SDL VNC code working on my desktop! Just got to move the changes to the pre! Jan 09 17:12:40 zonyl: awesome. Jan 09 17:13:04 does anyone know if the palm pre plus has the same leds in the gesture area as the sprint pre Jan 09 17:13:09 At first I was confused cause the window was tall and skinny.. Then remembered I had the res set to 320x480 hehe Jan 09 17:14:38 OMG I am so excited! Jan 09 17:15:14 PuffTheMagic: tryin to run a shell command from a code snippet...not having much luck. Found refs to this.controller.serviceRequest('palm://org.webosinternals.shell... but I must be missing something Jan 09 17:16:29 bbl Jan 09 17:23:40 I wonder if we could get luna to load in a virtual box Jan 09 17:25:15 zsocwerkin, I thought that is what was going on now in the SDK... virtualbox with webOS in it Jan 09 17:25:18 strike that from the record, that sentence was nonsensical Jan 09 17:25:24 haha Jan 09 17:26:01 so Pixi has 320x400 screen? Jan 09 17:26:15 what is a Palm Pre Plus? Jan 09 17:26:42 PuffTheMagic: fltk Jan 09 17:29:33 PuffTheMagic: did we look into wormux? Jan 09 17:29:48 tmzt, it is a palm pre with twice the memory and no action button in the gesture area Jan 09 17:29:59 it is what is coming out on verizon Jan 09 17:30:03 hmm Jan 09 17:30:12 world phone? Jan 09 17:30:38 twice the memory is probably cost savings on ebi2 single bank Jan 09 17:34:01 alright ... time to stage this baby Jan 09 17:40:54 opencoded sysfs store? doesn't kernel have functions for that? Jan 09 17:40:57 so what fixes do we have so far for "failed to set video mode" issues Jan 09 17:41:32 fix the init settings mainly Jan 09 17:42:42 is there an existing package in the pdk that i could use for reference? Jan 09 17:42:51 timepants: sdl is the king of vague errors Jan 09 17:43:03 so i see D: Jan 09 17:43:08 timepants: oh, and make sure you have a /dev/fb1 :p Jan 09 17:43:23 this is a new program i ported, everything else works fine for me Jan 09 17:43:29 i'm trying to get it up and running Jan 09 17:44:05 timepants: : what program? Jan 09 17:44:12 maybe I can look Jan 09 17:44:23 msm doesn't have a mcspi Jan 09 17:46:39 also no sdl for gsm devices is getting tragic, I think I'll look again at a fix. easiest one is probably to doctor a 135 patched to avoid the compatibility error but they'll have to doctor again for a proper update and all this is not without risk Jan 09 17:46:59 other way may be update certain packages only Jan 09 17:47:14 linksocc, get tuxracer to build yet? Jan 09 17:47:22 timepants: what are your video mode flags? Jan 09 17:47:24 nop Jan 09 17:47:34 linksocc, what steps did you take? Jan 09 17:47:40 using scratchbox ? Jan 09 17:48:10 egaudet: you got tuxracer, right? was it the iphone one? Jan 09 17:48:17 destinal-wirc, yea Jan 09 17:48:32 i just followed the instructions copy/pasted everything and build doom so i can test Jan 09 17:48:57 and tuxracer fail in the ./configure-pre step, something about not having gl libraries Jan 09 17:49:15 linksocc, in the scratchbox window can you type ls /usr/local/lib and ls /usr/local/include and then pastebin Jan 09 17:49:22 I should probably add a tutorial on patching keymap Jan 09 17:49:27 ok Jan 09 17:49:39 so more people can get full new apps going Jan 09 17:50:20 destinal-wirc: we're not actually suggesting editing the keysym header are we ? Jan 09 17:50:31 eh,dunno Jan 09 17:50:54 is there a bettet way? Jan 09 17:51:07 s/et/er/ Jan 09 17:51:08 destinal-wirc meant: is there a bertet way? Jan 09 17:51:14 sigh Jan 09 17:51:25 not awake yet Jan 09 17:51:40 egaudet: Is it acceptable to run a shell command from a code snippet? if not ... I want to kill a service is there a webosinternals.service for that? Jan 09 17:52:08 AMR-1, what kind of code snippet? Jan 09 17:52:34 a button control ???assistant.js Jan 09 17:53:19 egaudet: http://webos.pastebin.com/m33a7290 Jan 09 17:54:00 rwhitby wrote that they removed webosinternals.services.shell for security reasons Jan 09 17:54:01 what kind of service do you want to kill? You want the upstart manager service to start and stop upstart services from javascript Jan 09 17:54:53 linksocc, can you pastebin your config.log Jan 09 17:55:15 also you'll want to stage libSDL_mixer Jan 09 17:55:38 I was troubleshooting a battery draining prob and wanted to programically kill a selected service Jan 09 17:56:53 also have to run a chmod on a file and/or find another way to take the exec off of a file Jan 09 17:58:00 is it SDL_DOUBLEBUF thats broken? Jan 09 17:58:22 AMR-1, if you want to do that from mojo you'll need to write a sevice for it Jan 09 17:58:35 yuo can't use SDL_DOUBLEBUF or SDL_HWSURFACE Jan 09 17:58:52 ok thanks Jan 09 17:59:18 is that more secure than runnin a shell command? Jan 09 17:59:52 linksocc, also you want libpdl and libsqlite, in another terminal you can go to your /srv/preware/cross-compile tree, git pull and then make to stage those two Jan 09 18:00:09 ok Jan 09 18:00:10 AMR-1, there is no way to run a general shell command from mojo Jan 09 18:00:11 http://webos.pastebin.com/m1a4e7054 Jan 09 18:00:58 linksocc, yea it's complaining about libpdl, I added that late so it didn't get it's own configure messages Jan 09 18:01:21 * tlp wonders what SDL ports are brewing Jan 09 18:01:30 anyone ever succeed with DOSBox? Jan 09 18:01:32 so i do make libpdl libsqlite and libSDL_mixer Jan 09 18:01:39 AMR-1, if you are just troubleshooting and want a quick solution, just make an upstart script and use the upstart manager service to start/stop it Jan 09 18:02:05 linksocc, well libSDL_mixer isn't in the repo due to errors it was giving Jan 09 18:02:31 you can add it manually from the Pre/doctor image Jan 09 18:03:21 ok. Is there a snippet in git you can point me at that does that? Jan 09 18:04:23 AMR-1, a snippet that calls the upstart manager service? Jan 09 18:05:28 egaudet: so how do i do that? lol Jan 09 18:05:37 AMR-1, look at one of the games like doom or quake Jan 09 18:05:47 they contain upstart/ which is the upstart script Jan 09 18:06:05 and then very minimal app_assistant.js that calls upstartmgr service to start the upstart service Jan 09 18:06:20 linksocc, copy it from the Pre or doctor image to your local machine Jan 09 18:06:38 but where do i put it i already have the file Jan 09 18:06:46 one that sets it up... I assume I have to include a lib Jan 09 18:07:15 linksocc, and then move it to /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/armv7/usr/local/lib/ Jan 09 18:07:20 Thanks...Didn't think to look in the games. Looked all round the dev docs and all the webosinternals gits Jan 09 18:11:03 is there a specific type of yuv overlay that works Jan 09 18:11:39 egaudet: do i have to do anything for the configure script to recognise the new library path? Jan 09 18:11:48 timepants: swsurface in general is troublesome and lackin robustness, we're findin increasing advantages to using GLES Jan 09 18:12:31 linksocc, no Jan 09 18:12:36 ugh so you're rewriting the whole display handling in things? Jan 09 18:12:50 timepants: you might need to use rgb/a, not sure if yuv is software supported Jan 09 18:13:09 timepants: we're porting things that has gles options ;) Jan 09 18:13:27 surprised anyone really thinks in YUV instead of RGB Jan 09 18:13:34 timepants: but don't take my word as scripture, others have been successful with swsurfaces Jan 09 18:13:34 Jack87__: I love that analog joystick. I seem to get my ass handed to me when I use it exclusively though. Would there be an easy way to swap the fire button and the joystick locations? I tend to use wsn and my thumb to fire Jan 09 18:13:49 bpadalino: popular for video conversion/streaming Jan 09 18:14:04 err, wsz Jan 09 18:14:22 egaudet: but im still geting this *** SDL_mixer not found. Configuring without audio support. Jan 09 18:14:22 i haven't had luck with yuv or rgb so i'm trying to figure out whats wrong Jan 09 18:14:41 i'm just getting a black screen and mouse cursor draws trails on the screen Jan 09 18:14:47 zsocwerkin: i know, but it's never been intuitive for me Jan 09 18:15:15 timepants: oh... that's bad. you probably _need_ double buffering to render stuff properly. if I had to guess Jan 09 18:15:26 timepants: try hwpalette? Jan 09 18:15:36 linksocc, in your scratchbox window do you see it in /usr/local/lib Jan 09 18:15:48 can we know the application context here? Jan 09 18:16:01 tlp: i'm the programmer for quake :). although jack's fanastically useful for ideas/etc, so maybe you /should/ talk to him first hehe Jan 09 18:16:05 ahh Jan 09 18:16:12 sorry about that, just saw him on the wiki :p Jan 09 18:16:17 tlp: you just want them switched? Jan 09 18:16:17 I don't spend as much time in here as I'd like to Jan 09 18:16:33 egaudet: no its not there Jan 09 18:16:33 [SB2 mapping-armv7 armv7] egaudet@egaudet-ubuntu ~ $ ls -l /usr/local/lib/libSDL_mixer* Jan 09 18:16:34 lrwxrwxrwx 1 egaudet egaudet 25 2010-01-06 21:46 /usr/local/lib/libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0 -> libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0.2.5 Jan 09 18:16:34 -rwxrwxrwx 1 egaudet egaudet 330595 2009-12-12 17:27 /usr/local/lib/libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0.2.5 Jan 09 18:16:34 lrwxrwxrwx 1 egaudet egaudet 25 2010-01-06 21:46 /usr/local/lib/libSDL_mixer.so -> libSDL_mixer-1.2.so.0.2.5 Jan 09 18:16:44 basically yeah. I can respond/move more quickly with the keyboard, but I have to reach across with my thumb to fire Jan 09 18:17:10 remember you need to -M when invoking sb2 Jan 09 18:17:13 linksocc, did you put it in /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/armv7/usr/lib/ Jan 09 18:17:21 tlp: oh you want to fire with your left hand Jan 09 18:17:24 right Jan 09 18:18:03 tlp: okay i'm doign something else right now, but i can for sure add that as a togggle--to reverse the joy/fire buttons. mostly i'll have to refactor the code b/c it wasn't written to be configurable xD. Jan 09 18:18:30 ahh, cool. I'd appreciate that. I just can't get the player to move fast enough with the joystick sometimes :p Jan 09 18:18:37 tlp: are you here often-ish? if you bug me about it later i'd be happy to make that happen Jan 09 18:18:42 yeah, I idle here all the time Jan 09 18:18:57 i take it SDL_OPENGL doesn't work Jan 09 18:19:02 tlp: kk just remind me and i'll get on it; got other things filling me head presently Jan 09 18:19:09 no problem Jan 09 18:19:10 SDL_OPENGL actually switches you to SDL_OPENGLES i believe Jan 09 18:19:13 timepants: opengl fake-works, see the sdl-patch on that Jan 09 18:19:16 if you take a gander at the patch Jan 09 18:19:32 bpadalino, timepants: yep switches you over, but i don't think it's exactly the same, is it? Jan 09 18:19:38 could be wrong :):) Jan 09 18:19:43 i have no idea Jan 09 18:19:53 i always stick with SDL_OPENGLES Jan 09 18:20:30 timepants: yeah it actually works great :) but you generally need GL code to support it.. Jan 09 18:20:43 at least a viewport, at a minimun Jan 09 18:21:40 ls: cannot access /usr/local/lib/libSDL_mixer*: No such file or directory Jan 09 18:21:46 gotcha Jan 09 18:22:24 ls: cannot access /usr/local/lib/libSDL_mixer*: No such file or directory Jan 09 18:22:29 timepants: you might be able to look at some example programs that do both, and check out what's in the #ifdef's for GL stuff Jan 09 18:22:46 linksocc, how are you invoking sb2 ? Jan 09 18:23:14 sb2 -M /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7 Jan 09 18:23:18 I'm pretty sure it is the same (SDL_OPENGL, SDL_OPENGLES) Jan 09 18:23:35 it just changes the flag to SDL_OPENGLES when it sees SDL_OPENGL Jan 09 18:23:42 linksocc, did you make stage when you did the cross-compiling stuff ? Jan 09 18:23:58 yeah Jan 09 18:24:23 interesting Jan 09 18:24:49 linksocc, ls -l /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/armv7/usr/lib Jan 09 18:27:44 http://webos.pastebin.com/m1a4e7054 Jan 09 18:29:23 hahaha it woudl be good if i didn't spend 1.5 hours debugging code that doesn't even call the function in question......... Jan 09 18:29:27 hey gang, has preware been released as a direct download yet? Jan 09 18:29:48 via a palm based link? Jan 09 18:30:02 or still webos QI the only method? Jan 09 18:30:26 DarthPooh: preware bootstrap is the preferred method Jan 09 18:30:35 linksocc: it can't find libpdl for all of the configs .. Jan 09 18:30:57 ???? Jan 09 18:31:35 zsocwerkin: yep yep, just over a friends house without my setup and he wanted all the patches in a jiff Jan 09 18:31:49 I'll go grab my laptop then Jan 09 18:31:52 linksocc: grep for "cannot find" and you'll see a few different libs it can't find Jan 09 18:32:27 anyone know how much ram webos uses when idle Jan 09 18:32:51 the pre's display is 320x480 right? Jan 09 18:33:05 xcomp: yep :) Jan 09 18:33:13 xcomp: or 480x320 depending how you look at it haha Jan 09 18:33:33 dtzWill: yeah ... almost there Jan 09 18:33:34 :) Jan 09 18:34:02 zsocwerkin: just wasnt sure, since some feeds are in their infancy, wasnt sure if another method was perfected other than the original Jan 09 18:34:29 i'm still getting sdl_Setvideomode 320x480 fails Jan 09 18:34:43 what video mode do you pass to sdl? Jan 09 18:34:44 DarthPooh: I'm unsure what feeds have to do with installing preware. Jan 09 18:35:36 i'll just look at what doom is doing Jan 09 18:36:36 zsocwerkin: new install methods (i.e. Palm's direct link install via SMS) Jan 09 18:36:47 hmm...doom guesses Jan 09 18:37:21 Hey guys, one quick question about your "PDK". When it says to make the palm-game-fix file, do I put that in /usr/local/bin on the Pre or the machine I am using to compile? Jan 09 18:38:56 anyone report to palm how someone got NFS for free over the app catalog? i emailed them the thread, but the OP removed the details. Jan 09 18:40:56 xcomp: it doesn't guess, it gets the info from SDL_GetVideoInfo() Jan 09 18:42:43 I'm kinda interested in the details on how he did it Jan 09 18:42:52 I was just looking at that thread Jan 09 18:43:03 gonna hop in el shower Jan 09 18:43:10 wrong window :( Jan 09 18:43:44 not really for free games, but better understanding of how the exploit was discovered Jan 09 18:43:51 zsocwerkin: thanks ... got around that Jan 09 18:44:12 zsocwerkin: how do you kill luna so you can test an fb app (non sdl)? Jan 09 18:44:30 stop LunaSysMgr i think Jan 09 18:45:40 Kyusaku: i PM'd him to ask. I hope he is too dumb to read his own thread and see my comment Jan 09 18:45:45 Hmmm... I've had a weird issue with Luna kinda locking up recently. I wonder if it was some kind of patch I added this morning Jan 09 18:45:50 xcomp: don't? try 'stop' tho Jan 09 18:45:59 oooh Jan 09 18:46:01 omg, he didnt, just got the PM Jan 09 18:46:06 there is a gentoo ebuild for dosbox already Jan 09 18:46:07 cashen: lol Jan 09 18:46:07 :D Jan 09 18:46:27 what a effing moron Jan 09 18:46:32 zsocwerkin: yeah that was it, thanks :) Jan 09 18:46:44 please let us know, if it was anything interesting Jan 09 18:49:08 I will post after Palm fixes it Jan 09 18:49:12 zsocwerkin: wormux is on my list Jan 09 18:49:35 PuffTheMagic: where are we on term? Jan 09 18:49:36 was it something simple Jan 09 18:49:46 zsocwerkin: i didnt do anything since last night Jan 09 18:50:20 i am gonna be mad busy the next week so idk what im gonna get working Jan 09 18:50:24 i will try and make a repo though Jan 09 18:54:49 zsocwerkin: i think im gonna have to make my gentoo dev env more formalized Jan 09 18:54:57 give some instructins on how to use it in a chroot Jan 09 18:54:58 :D Jan 09 19:00:35 is there an additional library that needs to be linked against for using SDL_opengles.h? Jan 09 19:01:32 anyone else readi thing? http://forums.precentral.net/webos-apps-software/223661-need-speed-free-3.html Jan 09 19:02:28 anyone know how much ram webos uses when idle Jan 09 19:03:15 lots Jan 09 19:03:19 thanks to java Jan 09 19:03:32 ~135MB Jan 09 19:04:45 woohoo I got evas running on SDL Jan 09 19:05:11 nice Jan 09 19:05:55 r u using GLES or no? Jan 09 19:07:09 using software sdl right now Jan 09 19:07:23 i'd have to hack the benchmark suite to use the gles engine Jan 09 19:12:03 timepants: to answer your question, it depends on whether you are using GLES1.1 or 2.0 Jan 09 19:16:13 sorry to paste so much, but i think its funny. Jan 09 19:16:19 yo Jan 09 19:16:19 do you have the instruction for ripping the game Jan 09 19:16:19 yes Jan 09 19:16:19 hook a brotha up Jan 09 19:16:19 um, I reported it to Palm. Jan 09 19:16:20 oh so your a faggot Jan 09 19:16:46 haha Jan 09 19:17:41 [11:15:41] i smoke penis and fondle ball sacks Jan 09 19:18:07 Where's that banhammer when you need it Jan 09 19:18:32 Now thats funny Jan 09 19:18:40 [11:17:43] lol, why? give me $50 dollars and ill help you Jan 09 19:19:42 wow, it gets any better Jan 09 19:20:50 s/any/even/ Jan 09 19:20:51 cashen meant: wow, it gets even better Jan 09 19:20:57 i got dosbox working Jan 09 19:20:57 :D Jan 09 19:21:08 in 5 min Jan 09 19:21:10 135mb used by the OS? no wonder this racing game keep crashing Jan 09 19:21:18 * PuffTheMagic looks for that was easy button Jan 09 19:21:37 Deihmos: use gdb to see why it's crashing .. or check a core file .. Jan 09 19:21:43 can't say it's that memory usage Jan 09 19:22:03 it seems to be crashing for lots of people Jan 09 19:22:17 could be bad pointer access Jan 09 19:22:30 is 256mb enough for the pre? Jan 09 19:22:44 that is a somewhat nebulous question Jan 09 19:23:17 rwhitby says playing NfS takes up 80% cpu and 23% memory while playing i think he tweeted Jan 09 19:23:20 anyone who has it crash should launch it directly from terminal Jan 09 19:23:39 maybe it has to do with the cpu Jan 09 19:23:48 jumping to 600 Jan 09 19:23:50 23% of 256MB? need for speed has never crashed for me Jan 09 19:23:53 wow nfs only 23% of the ram? Jan 09 19:24:01 not bad at all Jan 09 19:24:02 if the os is using 135Mb and Jan 09 19:26:31 who wants DOSbox? Jan 09 19:26:37 http://omploader.org/vMzdobg Jan 09 19:26:40 ^^ screenshot Jan 09 19:26:41 :D Jan 09 19:26:59 awesome Puff! :D Jan 09 19:27:18 test out t-fighter ;) Jan 09 19:27:40 grats :D Jan 09 19:28:29 PuffTheMagic: nice! Jan 09 19:29:01 PuffTheMagic: who doesn't! Jan 09 19:29:27 not really into DOSbox :( Jan 09 19:31:11 verily thou dost win, PuffTheMagic Jan 09 19:32:16 bpadalino: nor am i but people seem to want it Jan 09 19:33:28 PuffTheMagic: how did you do that? screen capture doesn't work full screen for me Jan 09 19:33:37 in card view it did Jan 09 19:33:43 Flash is only going to be for the Pre? Jan 09 19:34:28 dosbox would open the door to a ton of classic games Jan 09 19:34:35 ahahah yessss, some successsssss with GBA emulator Jan 09 19:34:47 count me as one very interested Jan 09 19:35:57 why does it say the pre plus has 512mb of ram on webos twitter Jan 09 19:36:12 because it does? Jan 09 19:36:27 Pre Plus does have 512mb's of ram its a well known fact. Jan 09 19:37:31 forget it, ebi is an msm thing and Pre is omap3, but that much ram is awesome Jan 09 19:37:34 ha Jan 09 19:38:02 from who? Jan 09 19:38:05 now cut down on java stuff and get rid of that daemon walling /proc/cpuinfo one byte at a time Jan 09 19:38:22 From Jon Deihmos. Jan 09 19:38:28 i didn't remember rubinstein sayign anything about ram Jan 09 19:38:33 He said it at CES 2010 Jan 09 19:38:36 it's confirmed it has more ram Jan 09 19:38:39 he did say storage was doubled. nothing about ram Jan 09 19:38:54 what I find ironic are the people who had no problems with 256 before now suddenly feel it's insufficient Jan 09 19:39:27 i would like to see palm migrate away from java services and more to C services .. as it does seem the java footprint is relatively large Jan 09 19:39:33 i think some people are getting confused when he said internal memory was doubled. i am sure it was referring to storage not ram Jan 09 19:39:34 he said both memory and storage Jan 09 19:39:42 the java makes no sense Jan 09 19:39:44 there were two separate bullets on the slide Jan 09 19:39:45 no he did not Jan 09 19:39:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsIQw0wF14 << go to 3:10 Jan 09 19:39:53 at least with android the apps are java Jan 09 19:40:06 embedded sd was a given Jan 09 19:40:16 going to 8 is nothing, 16 would be better Jan 09 19:40:17 tmzt, its a little bit softer of a crash maybe when it dies? Jan 09 19:40:20 oh come a service rep Jan 09 19:40:26 expansion even better Jan 09 19:40:30 bpadalino: what? Jan 09 19:40:59 when java crashes versus if a c service crashes? Jan 09 19:41:12 upstart doesn't care Jan 09 19:41:18 also Deihmos he says: Palm's CEO, Jon Rubinstein during the CES presentation, quite clearly states "We doubled the internal memory, so you get increased performance and you can do more complicated tasks, like those 3D games we showed you". Jan 09 19:41:30 I heard that Jan 09 19:41:38 Good afternoon all. Jan 09 19:41:51 hrm, maybe java was just a silly decision to use a JVM they bought ? Jan 09 19:42:39 I'm looking for some help with a scratch box compiling of freeCiv, getting an error on the configure step Jan 09 19:43:07 Deihmos: there's also the fact that it has been confirmed in here by palm engineers Jan 09 19:43:30 well if that is the case the sprint customers gort gimped Jan 09 19:43:57 they didn't get anything .. Jan 09 19:43:58 Deihmos, internal memory is not storage Jan 09 19:44:12 sprint users have been able to experience the webos experience Jan 09 19:44:23 verizon users will now be able to experience it as well Jan 09 19:44:42 everyone getting their panties in a bunch over some extra storage and memory really is just silly Jan 09 19:44:46 seriously Jan 09 19:44:55 and then feeling like you got f'd by sprint ... oy Jan 09 19:45:03 bpadalino, which "Java services"? Jan 09 19:45:04 it's as if people expect free upgrades forever, someone else gets a better version you get a free upgrade? Jan 09 19:45:07 that's not how the world works Jan 09 19:45:13 storage is no big deal but if there is really a ram upgrade that's big Jan 09 19:45:17 rb2k, all of telephony seem to be run through java Jan 09 19:45:23 wtf?! Jan 09 19:45:38 you are sure that it's java and not javascript? Jan 09 19:45:47 or do you mean the baseband? Jan 09 19:45:49 Only time I ever got anything from Sprint/Palm/Handspring was when I got a $100 credit towards my Treo 300 for turning in my 8mb Handspring Visor as a trade in Jan 09 19:46:12 rb2k: i think this conversation is probably going in 10 different directions simultaneously Jan 09 19:46:22 Deihmos, you had to expect that at some point the Pre would have some hardware upgrades, verizon customers haven't been able to use webos AT ALL, so I don't see how it's "unfair" that we won't get the hardware upgrade right away Jan 09 19:46:46 :) Jan 09 19:46:52 double ram in 6 months is big. the storage is nothing though Jan 09 19:47:03 it isn't big Jan 09 19:47:04 i only know one phone with that much ram Jan 09 19:47:06 it's not big Jan 09 19:47:12 bpadalino, java isn't bad per se... it's got the same potential as ever other language. Jan 09 19:47:32 there aren't any phones with that much ram. the only one i saw is the new google nexus Jan 09 19:47:37 many Jan 09 19:47:38 rb2k: i am not saying it's bad in most ways ... i am just saying the footprint of the java services is pretty large Jan 09 19:47:41 just becuase the sun java VM takes a lot of space because of a great garbage collection and jit compilation doesn't mean that the palm one will Jan 09 19:47:53 java doesn't really have the "same potential" as every other language Jan 09 19:47:56 or did you look up the footprint on the phone? Jan 09 19:48:03 egaudet, it is touring complete... Jan 09 19:48:06 rb2k, i've looked at the footprint using top on the phone Jan 09 19:48:10 ah, ok Jan 09 19:48:11 :) Jan 09 19:48:27 so i can imagine flash and those other stuff will lag for the sprint palm pre Jan 09 19:48:37 java is meant to be portable, with portability you naturally get performance drawbacks Jan 09 19:48:53 egaudet, java is the fastest managed language I know Jan 09 19:48:59 huh Jan 09 19:49:14 which managed language is faster? Jan 09 19:49:31 Well I guess if you throw away the real languages like C... Jan 09 19:49:35 that is not managed Jan 09 19:49:42 no garbage collection etc Jan 09 19:49:49 right, well you didn't qualify that earlier you just said "every other language" Jan 09 19:49:54 Deihmos considering need for speed only uses 23% of the memory I dont think flash will run any slower then on the pre plus. Jan 09 19:50:02 I said it has the same potential as every other language Jan 09 19:50:03 the extra memory wont speed it up that much Jan 09 19:50:09 just let you have more cards open. Jan 09 19:50:26 but it doesn't have the same potential to optimize/performance as C Jan 09 19:50:39 obviously the people writing apps for webOS will look at the pre/pixi memory as the baseline usage maximums Jan 09 19:50:39 depends on what you mean by that Jan 09 19:50:45 it takes less time to get code to perform Jan 09 19:50:49 and not that good of a programmer Jan 09 19:51:00 I'm not talking about development Jan 09 19:51:02 on the other side, the same would go for C <-> ASM Jan 09 19:51:06 I'm talking about the code actually running Jan 09 19:51:12 Bad C code cant run slower then VB6 Jan 09 19:51:18 exactly Jan 09 19:51:25 xcomp: i have a secret tool Jan 09 19:51:26 The "jump" from C to ASM is not even comparable to java to C Jan 09 19:51:32 :) Jan 09 19:51:40 i should make a gui for my screencap tool :D Jan 09 19:51:41 Java is pretty speedy and its OOP Jan 09 19:51:43 C is not Jan 09 19:51:49 c++ is Jan 09 19:51:49 unless we are talking about C++ Jan 09 19:51:49 LOL Jan 09 19:51:55 Java is slow Jan 09 19:51:56 you can do OO in C Jan 09 19:51:57 So, anyone able to help trouble shoot a compiling error in scratchbox? Jan 09 19:52:02 and OO is a principle Jan 09 19:52:04 if you use OOP in C++, it gets slow too Jan 09 19:52:23 Java can be realtivly fast if you program it right. Jan 09 19:52:37 its not as fast as good C++ or good C but it still is fast. Jan 09 19:52:38 i didn't mean for this to become a language war :( Jan 09 19:52:49 in general I don't like java though... it's an "ok" language, but missing a LOT of features Jan 09 19:52:54 I personally love C# but lets not start there lol. Jan 09 19:53:06 proper closures, mixins, traits, lambdas Jan 09 19:53:06 relatively to what, maybe you won't notice the performance for certain things, but it's a natural tradeoff, portability for performance Jan 09 19:53:24 I like power and control Jan 09 19:53:45 I like things that don't crash and burn Jan 09 19:53:58 how does C "crash and burn" Jan 09 19:54:03 well we need controls for dosbox Jan 09 19:54:06 before we get excited Jan 09 19:54:11 right now the keyboard works Jan 09 19:54:15 how come most security vulnerabilities are because of C? Jan 09 19:54:16 but idk what do to for arrow keys Jan 09 19:54:21 if a programmer doesn't know how to write proper C code, that is not the languages fault Jan 09 19:54:21 starting at buffer overflow Jan 09 19:54:42 "because of C" ... Jan 09 19:54:43 rb2k: cause what you can do in C is abstracted away and hidden is other languages Jan 09 19:54:55 with great power, comes great responsibility Jan 09 19:54:58 sure Jan 09 19:55:01 exactly Jan 09 19:55:10 that doesn't make the language bad Jan 09 19:55:24 you could use the same discussion for handguns Jan 09 19:55:29 I just don't want them arround me :) Jan 09 19:55:29 i was just going to say that Jan 09 19:55:35 i program my pre with a 1911 Jan 09 19:56:51 omg Jan 09 19:56:56 duke nukem for dos Jan 09 19:56:57 :D Jan 09 19:57:31 PuffTheMagic: it works?! Jan 09 19:57:58 egaudet: have you had any issues with opengl es 1.1 not.. flushing properly? Jan 09 19:58:21 egaudet: it's very strange--my textures aren't rendering until i leave the card then i see them for a second Jan 09 19:59:30 nope, but then I haven't really written any of my own GLES (yet) Jan 09 19:59:52 is it your code or are you porting Jan 09 20:01:42 * sportman waves Jan 09 20:01:47 what SDL events are generated when you tap the touchscreen? Jan 09 20:01:52 egaudet: both :). i might have to get the powervr emulator or something to see if/when my code is 'supposed' to work Jan 09 20:01:57 mouse up and down Jan 09 20:01:59 and movement Jan 09 20:02:57 check testmouse.c (i think?) in the sdl libs for how to get the multi mouse events Jan 09 20:03:25 bpadalino: so it's not SDL_MOUSEMOTION/SDL_MOUSEBUTTONDOWN Jan 09 20:03:44 no, it is Jan 09 20:03:52 hmm ok Jan 09 20:03:56 check out that testmouse Jan 09 20:03:59 hmm orange dont work in dosbox Jan 09 20:12:03 well I've got visualboyadvance more or less running... gba games run around 70% speed and gb/gbc games run fine Jan 09 20:12:25 but controls are messy and anytime you run at an odd resolution thats not a power of 2 native, it runs obscenely slow Jan 09 20:12:32 timepants: haha oh you're working on that? Jan 09 20:12:34 timepants: haha Jan 09 20:12:42 timepants: i'm in the middle of porting that to have gles accel :( Jan 09 20:12:47 oh cool Jan 09 20:12:51 good Jan 09 20:12:51 dammit all we gotta communicate better haha Jan 09 20:12:56 i'm about to give up dude, its cool Jan 09 20:13:01 i just wanted to see if i could get ANYTHING to run Jan 09 20:13:22 well you got farther then I did. I can't get FreeCiv to compile Jan 09 20:13:35 if you want to know what i had to do to get regular 2D sdl to work, let me know Jan 09 20:13:41 or if you want a hand testing :) Jan 09 20:13:52 errors while looking for "zlib" Jan 09 20:14:41 timepants: testing would be great at some point, but yeah i had 2d sdl working before, but i was hoping opengl accel will at least give us slightly nicer graphics Jan 09 20:14:48 Kaerey, i had major problems with zlib too and it drove me crazy, i ended up copying the libs to the toolchain libs folder and it worked ok Jan 09 20:14:51 timepants: won't really help haha, since it's all emulated anyway Jan 09 20:15:22 worms is playing ins dosbox Jan 09 20:15:25 timepants: Ohh.. really.... Jan 09 20:15:27 at like .00001x speed Jan 09 20:16:56 well fuck now I need to go back and redo it all I just nuked my virtual box installation of ubuntu cause I was giving up Jan 09 20:17:15 quitting is for quitters Jan 09 20:17:16 :) Jan 09 20:17:38 Kaerey, srv/preware/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc/usr/lib Jan 09 20:18:01 alright its 3pm and i'm still in my bathrobe, brb time to get ready for the day >.> Jan 09 20:18:07 you just pasted the code there? Jan 09 20:18:21 Kaerey, i just made a copy of the libz.so.* there Jan 09 20:18:38 i bet qemu would be faster than this Jan 09 20:18:38 its not the right solution but it got me through that headache Jan 09 20:18:42 or virtualox Jan 09 20:19:46 dtzWill, i'd like to see what you're doing for the GLES part at some point, i started down that path and i had some issues with the GL calls bombing out at the linker Jan 09 20:20:18 probably just some intricacy of the pdk that i haven't figured out yet Jan 09 20:20:39 timepants: sure. it's being a little lame but i'm rather close. probably some part gles i don't understand :) Jan 09 20:20:55 timepants: i'm not using the realy 'pdk', so my build env won't help, but the source should :):) Jan 09 20:21:09 kk :D Jan 09 20:22:04 ok another question. Anyone know how to change the screen size of ubuntu in virtual box? I'm stuck at 800x600 and going nuts Jan 09 20:23:17 Blackthorne works a little Jan 09 20:23:25 http://omploader.org/vMzdpNg Jan 09 20:24:21 Kaerey: In Virtualbox, choose Install Guest Additions from the device menu...it'll mount a CD in Ubuntu which will allow you to insall the modules to allow resolution changes Jan 09 20:24:51 hm. did that too. and nothing. maybe I should just stick to watching football today, shit aint going my way Jan 09 20:25:43 is there a webos-internals google wave? Jan 09 20:26:12 hmm..worked great for me, had to reboot the VM as it installed some new kernel drivers...when it works it's great..allows you to resize your window to any resolution you want. It also gave me seamless mouse movement from the VM to the host too. Jan 09 20:26:34 Ahh see I get an error on the kernal install Jan 09 20:27:17 make sure you're running the right script for your architecture...other than that I've got no other ideas Jan 09 20:27:47 Anyone need a google wave invite? If so, i got a bunch. Jan 09 20:27:49 yeah.. I vote more football. Army All American Bowl is on. I can watch that and at least feel like I accomplished something today Jan 09 20:28:35 kerwood: the tools definately but you can try xrandr from a terminal Jan 09 20:29:04 anyone tried a vdrift port yet? Jan 09 20:30:22 dtzWill, suggestion for quake: lock my thumb on joystick even if I slide out of the joystick area? Jan 09 20:31:41 egaudet: it.. doesn't do that? Jan 09 20:31:47 egaudet: err what do you mean? Jan 09 20:32:44 so I go mousedown on the joystick, then without mouseup i motion all the way up. it will jump Jan 09 20:33:02 egaudet: that's intentional, sorry. :/. the idea is to make run+jump a lot easier Jan 09 20:33:50 egaudet: but if you think that's terrible, i'm open to discussion--but it wasn't an accident that it does that Jan 09 20:34:32 that makes sense, what about moving the threshold up a bit Jan 09 20:34:44 there's area in the middle of screen where you don't jump and you lose joystick Jan 09 20:34:52 hi! can I install webos 1.3.5 in my movistar (a company as Sprint) phone? I don't have the update via company Jan 09 20:35:12 and... can I user webosdoctor with this phone? I like to add tabs to my menu (for example) Jan 09 20:37:00 egaudet: oh that's an interesting point. i think the reasons for the gap btwn top of joy+jump are gone Jan 09 20:37:15 egaudet: errr maybe not. the idea /was/ that if you accel all the way up yuo have a buffer before jumping Jan 09 20:37:41 egaudet: so going as fast as possible doesn't mean you accidentally jump if you go a /smidge/ too far. that was the idea anyway Jan 09 20:37:46 timepants: is you're around, I would like to know the process path you took to fix your yuv (or just general display) issues? Jan 09 20:37:52 egaudet: what are you suggesting? Jan 09 20:38:07 timepants: was yuv for vba? Jan 09 20:38:47 dtzWill: yeah I think that was one of his hurdles to getting software surface compatibility Jan 09 20:39:26 dtzWill, well make the "accel" stop at a certain point but make the joy-hold continue in dead area. so you have your circle of acceleration and then a bigger circle of holding joy so you can still move it around Jan 09 20:42:01 dtzWill: can you use SDL_Flip() with a SWSURFACE? Jan 09 20:42:06 zsocwerkin: no Jan 09 20:42:23 zsocwerkin: err idk, but you need double_buf for sdl_flip Jan 09 20:43:05 dtzWill: wild. the sdl 'hello world' shows them used together without doulbe_buf, maybe an old version or something Jan 09 20:43:36 so the pre's 0,0 is bottom-left. I think the iphone's is top-left. Jan 09 20:43:42 dtzWill: well i couldn't go it, maybe you can? oh i think that sdl_flip in that case does the same as updaterect on the screen Jan 09 20:43:43 alex__: movistar is gsm? Jan 09 20:43:48 rofl i just talked to myself Jan 09 20:43:52 zsocwerkin: what i just said Jan 09 20:44:11 ah got it Jan 09 20:44:37 egaudet: in GLES? 0,0 is bottom left. depends on your viewport how it looks tho Jan 09 20:45:42 zsocwerkin, well I"m porting iphone tuxracer, and he's drawing the menu box vectors like: x,y -> x+w,y -> x+w, y+h -> x, y+h Jan 09 20:46:10 which draws it wrong Jan 09 20:46:10 egaudet: what's the viewport? Jan 09 20:46:20 so either he has his starting point wrong or the iphone freakily is inversed Jan 09 20:46:30 tmzt: I think no Jan 09 20:46:37 zsocwerkin, glViewport call? Jan 09 20:47:35 0,0,320,480 Jan 09 20:47:40 tmzt: do you know If I can use webosdoctor with my pre no mather that it is movistar? Jan 09 20:50:20 egaudet: no idea. but I've ran iphone 3gs demos on webos, it's works fine. Jan 09 20:50:49 alex__: how do you have a webos phone on movistar? is it unlocked? Jan 09 20:52:01 zsocwerkin, yea I have to find out why but definitely seems the y is being set up too high, so it's probably just not subtracting the height at some point earlier Jan 09 20:52:17 egaudet: that's what I would think Jan 09 20:53:18 alex__: if someone has modified your pre for you, you probably want to ask them before upgrading Jan 09 20:53:26 zsocwerkin: movistar sell the Palm Pre Jan 09 20:53:50 but movistar for now have the 1.3.1 webos Jan 09 20:53:52 alex__: aha, just googled it Jan 09 20:54:04 alex__: oh, well I'm sure they have a compatible doctor Jan 09 20:54:11 sorry for my ignorance Jan 09 20:55:01 alex__: so if you want 1.3.5.1 you'd probably want to use a sprint doctor. People have used sprint doctors on palm pre's in germany on GSM successfully but the new doctor has some checks and aborts Jan 09 20:56:07 so the options are, either we modify it to work anyway and try it, or you wait for an official 1.3.5.1 movistar release Jan 09 20:56:37 if it doesn't work you can just doctor back, but you could lose any palm backup data Jan 09 20:56:37 curse you windows 7 Jan 09 20:56:39 destinal: i got dos box working in 5 min Jan 09 20:56:45 PuffTheMagic: what was wrong? Jan 09 20:56:51 idk what was wrong for you Jan 09 20:56:53 webos quick install keeps opening a dos window and then closes out Jan 09 20:57:12 destinal: i removed CDROM support and changed SWSURFACE to HWSURFACE and it ran Jan 09 20:57:34 hmmm, HWSURFACE is what we need? Jan 09 20:57:35 he Jan 09 20:57:36 err Jan 09 20:57:37 DarthPooh: sounds like Java isn't sourced Jan 09 20:57:38 i mean Jan 09 20:57:41 HW to SW Jan 09 20:57:47 PuffTheMagic: o_O. that definitely isn't consistent. i know zsocwerkin was looking into it Jan 09 20:57:48 hmmm, I was sure i tried that Jan 09 20:57:49 sorry Jan 09 20:57:55 destinal: huh? Jan 09 20:57:55 PuffTheMagic: haha nvm :) Jan 09 20:58:08 will try again Jan 09 20:58:09 but it runs games like poop Jan 09 20:58:18 destinal: i will repoize this sometime Jan 09 20:58:23 destinal: the difference between the doctors is GSM or HDSPA? Jan 09 20:58:35 alex__: all doctors seem to work on all devices Jan 09 20:58:37 sugardave: i am reinstalling java now Jan 09 20:58:54 zsocwerkin: im gonna get my gentoo overlay in git too Jan 09 20:59:05 alex__: they all have GSM and CDMA support built in and detect which one is present Jan 09 20:59:19 well after whichever one GSM was introduced in first i mean Jan 09 20:59:25 PuffTheMagic: nice Jan 09 20:59:25 destinal: so.. I can install the sprint image without problem and if I have problems reinstall my movistar webosdoctor? Jan 09 20:59:42 alex__: yes, except we need to bypass a new check the doctor does Jan 09 21:00:01 sugardave: no dice on the reinstall Jan 09 21:00:19 PuffTheMagic: uploading evas demo to youtube now Jan 09 21:00:23 alex__: in 1.3.5 it started checking what device you have currently Jan 09 21:00:30 all doctors before that you could just flash Jan 09 21:00:34 xcomp: ompload the binary Jan 09 21:01:09 xcomp: which demo did you use Jan 09 21:01:15 xcomp: the whole engine works? Jan 09 21:01:23 zsocwerkin: yes its a happy day Jan 09 21:01:31 sdl apps are gonna look sick Jan 09 21:01:32 destinal: I'm very afraid... could I broke my phone software? Jan 09 21:01:38 Preware-evas Jan 09 21:01:38 I question it's stability :p Jan 09 21:01:39 I'm beginner on Pre Jan 09 21:01:45 me is excited Jan 09 21:01:49 PuffTheMagic: I'm not sold yet Jan 09 21:01:54 zsocwerkin: i dont care if u are Jan 09 21:01:57 evas is amazing Jan 09 21:02:03 lol Jan 09 21:02:08 PuffTheMagic: lol can you point me to docs? Jan 09 21:02:15 alex__: well, there is a potential risk, yes. other people have done it but I can't promise it would not cause any problems. generally speaking you can just doctor back to the older version if there are problems Jan 09 21:02:25 PuffTheMagic: I need to sort out static compilation, so I'll upload my staging library as well in a tarball Jan 09 21:02:34 you can extract it anywhere and use LD_LIBRARY_PATH Jan 09 21:02:39 but you may lose data Jan 09 21:03:01 DarthPooh: sorry man...can you do 'java -version' or whatever from a DOS prompt? Jan 09 21:03:05 xcomp: i know how to run shit Jan 09 21:03:07 :D Jan 09 21:03:20 well... I have my phoen since 2 weeks, so I think that I will go to wait the movistar official release ;p Jan 09 21:03:27 PuffTheMagic: sounds messy.. do you just.. run _on_ it? Jan 09 21:03:31 heh Jan 09 21:03:34 * jacques yawns. Jan 09 21:03:40 http://web.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=docs&l=en Jan 09 21:04:35 sugardave version 6 Jan 09 21:05:21 so we can only play dos games from 1993 and earlier Jan 09 21:05:25 sugardave it is up to date, I just dont know what the hell is wrong with windows 7, Ive installed on other machines with w7 Jan 09 21:05:30 if that Jan 09 21:05:38 edited the novacom file to play nice Jan 09 21:05:48 DarthPooh: I'm out of ideas....no win7 here Jan 09 21:05:57 sorry was afk, i ended up fixing the problem by removing "SDL_ANYFORMAT" from the default videomode flags Jan 09 21:05:58 zsocwerkin: [16:02:26] zsoc pisses in everyones cornflakes Jan 09 21:05:59 LOL Jan 09 21:06:02 it works with YUV and RGB now Jan 09 21:06:03 DarthPooh: sorry i had to Jan 09 21:06:05 that was funny Jan 09 21:06:10 with SDL_SWSURFACE and SDL_HWPALETTE Jan 09 21:06:13 he knows he does Jan 09 21:06:14 PuffTheMagic: ty Jan 09 21:06:19 hahaha Jan 09 21:06:23 i do too Jan 09 21:06:39 puff is the master cornflake pisser extraordinaire Jan 09 21:06:43 but you do it with a smile so people tend to not hate you as much Jan 09 21:06:43 MCPE Jan 09 21:06:50 its extremely slow if you don't set the res to native though, the luna scaler is very poor Jan 09 21:07:11 DarthPooh: You're the only person here who dislikes me. Jan 09 21:07:27 bah Jan 09 21:07:31 i dont hate anyone man Jan 09 21:07:37 youre too touchy Jan 09 21:07:45 and a literal lucy Jan 09 21:07:51 you need to relax sometimes Jan 09 21:07:56 timepants: it's not poor so much as inefficient, Jan 09 21:08:26 DarthPooh: and you're crass and arrogant. this channel has a purpose, and you do not demonstrate willingness to contribute. Jan 09 21:08:26 ARGH, now I need to really go home and grab my laptop to install preware on this assholes device Jan 09 21:08:28 hmm... I just noticed that I have static library archives in here and I don't need to Jan 09 21:08:33 timepants: oh SDL_ANYFORMAT broke all kinds of things :/ Jan 09 21:08:41 thats what i meant D: Jan 09 21:08:46 dtzWill, haha thats for sure Jan 09 21:08:56 PuffTheMagic: can you pastebin a diff for dosbox just so I know I'm not losing my mind? Jan 09 21:09:01 dtzWill: ANYFORMAT is the devil Jan 09 21:09:29 zsocwerkin: I come to this channel for a purpose, and rod knows what it is, even though you might not... dont overlook the obvious due to your overwhelming need to feel important Jan 09 21:09:54 ouch Jan 09 21:09:59 destinal: http://omploader.org/vMzdpcQ Jan 09 21:10:04 tbz2 Jan 09 21:10:09 thanks Jan 09 21:10:58 destinal: no ouchies, just truth. Jan 09 21:11:15 DarthPooh: I meant ouch for both Jan 09 21:11:31 (the exchange) Jan 09 21:11:44 hmm Jan 09 21:11:59 i totally forgot its probably the resolution/scaller that is ruining performance here Jan 09 21:12:28 PuffTheMagic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Isjgc0oX0s Jan 09 21:12:30 PuffTheMagic: :P Jan 09 21:13:07 PuffTheMagic: aha I missed the sdl blit Jan 09 21:13:20 destinal: indeed. Jan 09 21:13:30 destinal: what was that? Jan 09 21:13:49 PuffTheMagic: I got SWSURFACE on the init once but missed the blit which probably totally confused it Jan 09 21:14:17 DarthPooh: if you want to dish it out you better be able to handle getting it back Jan 09 21:14:19 are we sure that HWSURFACE doesn't work on our hardware? Jan 09 21:14:21 and why not? Jan 09 21:14:30 destinal: palm disabled it Jan 09 21:14:34 that "error" Jan 09 21:14:37 is not really an error Jan 09 21:14:40 and much of a statement Jan 09 21:14:49 HWSURFACE and DOUBLEBUF dont work Jan 09 21:14:55 or are disabled Jan 09 21:14:58 how ever you want to look at it Jan 09 21:15:07 PuffTheMagic: teaser: http://xcomputerman.com/~ibukun/evas_on_palm_pre.png Jan 09 21:15:29 xcomp: i cant wait Jan 09 21:17:33 PuffTheMagic: I am a high school teacher... I eat this type of crap for breakfast and crap it out durning lunch and save it for dinner Jan 09 21:17:36 http://xcomputerman.com/files/evas_webos.tar.gz Jan 09 21:17:53 DarthPooh: :D Jan 09 21:18:18 but honestly, no hard feelings ever... that would be silly on the interwebz Jan 09 21:19:21 xcomp: there is nothing in share and bin Jan 09 21:19:22 just lib Jan 09 21:19:52 yeah i didn't put anything in there Jan 09 21:20:06 the expedite binary is in the expedite dir Jan 09 21:21:20 xcomp: how are u starting this? Jan 09 21:21:45 PuffTheMagic: readme :) Jan 09 21:21:49 come on Jan 09 21:22:24 actually that readme should say LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/staging/usr/lib Jan 09 21:23:08 why does LD_LIB_PATH needed Jan 09 21:23:15 dropping them in /usr/lib shoudl work Jan 09 21:23:27 yeah that should work too, I think Jan 09 21:23:34 haven't tried yet :) Jan 09 21:23:39 but it dont Jan 09 21:23:44 i get segfault Jan 09 21:23:51 means it's probably looking for them in /usr/local/lib Jan 09 21:23:56 you get segv? Jan 09 21:25:16 xcomp: but with LD_PATH it works Jan 09 21:25:20 and holy shit Jan 09 21:25:26 it runs smooth like butter Jan 09 21:26:14 you guys are gonna go crazy when you see the EVAS apps that will come out now Jan 09 21:26:25 xcomp: did you record the "ALL tests" demo? Jan 09 21:26:44 PuffTheMagic: what supports it? Jan 09 21:26:47 yeah ... http://webos.pastebin.com/m2e302289 Jan 09 21:26:53 zsocwerkin: huh? Jan 09 21:27:09 PuffTheMagic: what advantage does the evas engine give us Jan 09 21:27:15 xcomp: well im doing it now so dont need to see your video Jan 09 21:27:20 zsocwerkin: basically makes writing sdl apps very easy Jan 09 21:27:23 zsocwerkin: its a frame work for making guis Jan 09 21:27:29 zsocwerkin: its like qt or gtk Jan 09 21:27:35 except its part of EFL Jan 09 21:27:45 and it has widgets and really slick shit Jan 09 21:27:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsAuGSKbVhk Jan 09 21:27:51 something that sdl by its self does not Jan 09 21:28:05 so with out this we would have to reinvent the wheel and it would probably look like shit Jan 09 21:28:13 PuffTheMagic: I see Jan 09 21:28:24 xcomp: now to get this working with openGLES Jan 09 21:28:25 widgets would be _very_ nice Jan 09 21:28:41 zsocwerkin: just watch the video Jan 09 21:28:42 :D Jan 09 21:28:45 PuffTheMagic: so we could use evas sort of like mojo Jan 09 21:29:04 zsocwerkin: exactly Jan 09 21:29:07 PuffTheMagic: i would have to write a gles wrapper for expedite...but that evas library is already compiled with gles support Jan 09 21:29:08 zsocwerkin: but its in C Jan 09 21:29:10 :D Jan 09 21:29:17 PuffTheMagic: I assume you go into turbo mode when you run evas? Jan 09 21:29:26 destinal: whats this turbo mode shit Jan 09 21:29:46 xcomp: using that switcher in the expedite demo would make a good Preware UI Jan 09 21:29:53 have the tux logo in the center Jan 09 21:29:59 with all the options around in a circle Jan 09 21:29:59 :D Jan 09 21:30:24 dtzWill: any progress? Jan 09 21:30:34 xcomp: seriously this is impressive Jan 09 21:30:38 the 3d demos Jan 09 21:30:55 and all that 3d is software Jan 09 21:30:58 ali1: on quake? not really, switched gears a little Jan 09 21:31:01 not gl Jan 09 21:31:04 glossy glass reflections Jan 09 21:31:10 xcomp: yeah i know Jan 09 21:31:23 evas is very, very efficient Jan 09 21:31:30 alright Jan 09 21:31:57 i've read up that pandora people ported ioquake using nano so i might go hit them up Jan 09 21:31:59 does novaterm need the sdk to work? Jan 09 21:32:24 Robi_: not necessarily, but you need novacom Jan 09 21:32:27 there already is an evas linux term i beleive Jan 09 21:32:34 ali1: good call. didn't occur to me to go ASK them :):) Jan 09 21:32:43 xcomp: does it come in the novaterm package? Jan 09 21:32:48 PuffTheMagic: i don't know the state of that terminal/if it was ever completed Jan 09 21:32:58 i was just looking for their source but it doesn't seem they've released it yet Jan 09 21:33:35 Robi_: novaterm is part of novacom Jan 09 21:34:14 xcomp: ok i dont want the sdk but want to get on the pre shortly after it's doctored, how? Jan 09 21:34:54 Robi_: use webos quick install and install preware, optware, ssh Jan 09 21:35:06 that's too late Jan 09 21:35:25 you need to install novacom on your machine if you want to get a quick terminal Jan 09 21:35:40 how, w/o the sdk Jan 09 21:35:51 meta doctor? Jan 09 21:36:06 or linux Jan 09 21:36:23 xcomp: i might have to switch to evas for the terminal Jan 09 21:36:49 Robi_: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Accessing_Linux_From_Windows Jan 09 21:36:50 oh it's burried in the doctor .jar Jan 09 21:37:23 PuffTheMagic: i dunno ... sdlterminal might be just fine Jan 09 21:37:57 evas isn't going to make it that much easier to handle terminal text, although you could do amazing stuff with the background :) Jan 09 21:38:11 ah this windows 7 problem seems fairly common Jan 09 21:39:15 DSL stopped functioning for a moment. Jan 09 21:40:01 xcomp: no its not gonna make the terminal part easier just the UI slicker Jan 09 21:40:28 destinal1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsAuGSKbVhk Jan 09 21:41:27 PuffTheMagic: Turbo mode is what LunaSysMgr calls it when it sets CPU scaling to 600mhz when SDL apps start (part of that IPC stuff presumably) Jan 09 21:41:47 it may be an issue for apps that don't need the performance where we don't want to drain the battery Jan 09 21:41:48 and that happens automatically? Jan 09 21:41:53 PuffTheMagic: yes Jan 09 21:42:07 and why cant we set it back after the app starts? Jan 09 21:42:18 PuffTheMagic: we can, I was just trying to see if there was an official API Jan 09 21:42:39 destinal: its probably an arg to SDL_init Jan 09 21:42:44 SDL_NOTURBO Jan 09 21:42:47 idk Jan 09 21:42:52 if I install a new system with webos doctor can I format all my memory? I want to remove the hacks and similar things, can I do a clean install? Jan 09 21:42:53 it should be in the docs Jan 09 21:42:55 i would imagine Jan 09 21:42:57 err Jan 09 21:42:59 the patch for sdl Jan 09 21:43:26 yeah, wish we had palm's docs already :) Jan 09 21:43:33 ls Jan 09 21:43:44 .: not found Jan 09 21:43:51 also I am not a shell Jan 09 21:44:03 ;) Jan 09 21:44:47 :D Jan 09 21:45:37 xcomp: you recorded this vid? Jan 09 21:46:51 destinal1: yep Jan 09 21:47:07 cool, this library / framework looks promising Jan 09 21:47:32 I was going to give you a hard time and say the video was terrible, but actually it's interesting :) Jan 09 21:47:47 :) Jan 09 21:48:06 evas is very slick Jan 09 21:51:09 must. try. evas. Jan 09 21:51:17 want. evas. Jan 09 21:52:04 good work xcomp Jan 09 21:54:41 plus, evas and other efl libs are BSD licensed so devs don't need to worry about GPL restrictions Jan 09 21:58:31 i cant wait to see what palms next sdl patch contains Jan 09 21:58:58 xcomp: for reference, novacom seems to get installed as you doctor so there's no need to pull it out Jan 09 21:58:59 opengl 3.2 support Jan 09 21:59:29 Robi_: that's true. Jan 09 22:00:11 morning Jan 09 22:00:19 morning rwhitby Jan 09 22:00:47 morning rwhitby Jan 09 22:01:21 morning Jan 09 22:01:58 morning rwhitby Jan 09 22:03:40 xcomp has an update waiting.... Jan 09 22:04:58 i do? :) Jan 09 22:05:43 rwhitby: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsAuGSKbVhk Jan 09 22:08:40 it takes a long time to download webosdoctor with my pre Jan 09 22:12:29 If I buy something with the Sprint catalog with my Movistar phone but updated with Sprint image... how the charged me the price? Jan 09 22:13:12 alex__: does movistar charge apps to your phone bill? Jan 09 22:13:31 alex__: for me it prompts for a credit card number Jan 09 22:13:55 destinal1: at the moment Pre catalog haven't paid apps in Europe Jan 09 22:14:31 I don't know why makes differences betweens USA users and Europe users Jan 09 22:15:33 http://tinypic.com/r/2a7cv1v/6 Jan 09 22:18:54 luna just crashed Jan 09 22:18:56 and when it started Jan 09 22:19:02 everything was back to defaults Jan 09 22:19:04 default wallpaer Jan 09 22:19:08 default launch icons Jan 09 22:19:10 wtf Jan 09 22:19:25 Im impressed how well memory management is working on the Pre. I loaded up tightvncserver, icewm, and firefox, it still seems to chug along Jan 09 22:19:26 hopefully in the em an not your pre Jan 09 22:20:02 zonyl: firefox? Jan 09 22:20:06 dtzWill: should I put up my ioquake3 somewhere? Jan 09 22:20:25 you got ioquake3 to compile ? Jan 09 22:20:33 its running Jan 09 22:20:34 ali1: thtat'd be good, we can hack on it together then :). i'll throw q2 up at some point Jan 09 22:20:46 AMR-1 on my pre. http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2142534&posted=1#post2142534 Jan 09 22:20:52 just shows the intro video and no polygons though :( Jan 09 22:21:03 you'll get it working ali1! :D Jan 09 22:21:38 dtzWill: am I able to push onto the git repo? Jan 09 22:21:57 So I have sdl vnc working and have cleaned up my modifications, how do I start getting all of this into the git repo? Jan 09 22:22:29 * PuffTheMagic plays tankwars in DOS Jan 09 22:22:29 :D Jan 09 22:22:30 on pre Jan 09 22:22:50 ali1: no idea, you'll have to talk to rwhitby Jan 09 22:23:55 PuffTheMagic: did you tell rick yet? Jan 09 22:23:56 ok F' dosbox Jan 09 22:24:00 this shit is too slow Jan 09 22:24:46 zonyl: i believe rwhitby is the correct method Jan 09 22:25:03 too slow = getting killed in tank wars? Jan 09 22:25:22 zsoc: He is in Australia right? Ill be back later tonight then. Jan 09 22:25:29 zonyl: he's here now :) Jan 09 22:25:37 zonyl: well, was, not too long ago Jan 09 22:25:46 hes probably catchin up in the forums presently... Jan 09 22:26:03 zonyl: he generally reads all the backlogs from what he missed since he last was in the channel Jan 09 22:27:01 Im heading off to watch Avatar 3D imax in a few so Ill be back later. Have to make up with my wife about obsessing over a phone all day ;) Jan 09 22:27:23 zonyl: tell me about it D: Jan 09 22:27:41 zony1: im in that boat too... Jan 09 22:28:24 rwhitby rwhitby rwhitby Jan 09 22:28:32 zonyl: you mentioned firefox a sec a go? got a ipk? Jan 09 22:28:35 dang he isn't like beetlejuice Jan 09 22:28:48 AMR-1: VNC :) Jan 09 22:28:49 PuffTheMagic: you're right about the SWSURFACE I missed, dosbox works now Jan 09 22:28:54 Z:\> Jan 09 22:29:07 ooooohhhh....thats cheating.... Jan 09 22:29:15 destinal: yeah we should put it in the topic or something. HWSURFACE doesn't work, SWSURFACE does Jan 09 22:29:27 hmm. All of our wives hate us, lol Jan 09 22:29:32 anyone got a link to q3a demo? Jan 09 22:30:49 xcomp: well I knew about that and fixed it in the init Jan 09 22:30:59 i'm gonna install dosbox just so I can dir again.... Jan 09 22:31:02 but there was an extra blit function call that used it as a param Jan 09 22:31:18 all that time wasted for not doing a grep :( Jan 09 22:31:46 ali1: http://www.idsoftware.com/games/quake/quake3-arena/index.php?game_section=demo Jan 09 22:32:22 thanks Jan 09 22:32:27 for those curious about just how easy it is to code using evas: http://bit.ly/5KjwVu Jan 09 22:32:30 np Jan 09 22:32:39 my pre crashes now when i go to the screenand lock page Jan 09 22:32:43 to change my wallpaper Jan 09 22:32:44 wtf Jan 09 22:35:21 nooooooooooooooooooo Jan 09 22:35:22 wtf Jan 09 22:35:34 synackfin: so now that dosbox works, what to run in it? Jan 09 22:35:37 hmm Jan 09 22:35:48 destinal: nothing runs well Jan 09 22:35:54 * xcomp thinks twice about trying dosbox Jan 09 22:36:33 PuffTheMagic: what's the easiest way to load stuff, imgmount? Jan 09 22:37:02 dosbox Jan 09 22:37:08 oh ok Jan 09 22:37:18 dude my phone can render any of the images on my phone now Jan 09 22:37:20 wtf Jan 09 22:37:58 PuffTheMagic: the doctor calleth? Jan 09 22:38:04 xcomp: i hope not Jan 09 22:38:09 ouch Jan 09 22:38:11 i didnt wanted to doctor till 1.4 beta was out Jan 09 22:38:13 PuffTheMagic: have you rebooted? Jan 09 22:38:19 yeah i've rebooted Jan 09 22:38:26 oh that's bothersome Jan 09 22:38:42 might want to remove some of the things you put in /usr/lib maybe? Jan 09 22:39:02 the images arent corrupt Jan 09 22:39:39 ohhhhhhhhhhh Jan 09 22:39:39 shit Jan 09 22:40:14 ? Jan 09 22:40:19 PuffTheMagic: you broke your phone D: Jan 09 22:40:25 NO CARRIER Jan 09 22:40:34 xcomp: packaged up libjpeg for some reason Jan 09 22:40:47 oh is there a libjpeg in there already? Jan 09 22:41:30 my bad man Jan 09 22:41:31 :) Jan 09 22:41:44 just delete the libjpeg.so link and link to libjpeg.so.62 and you should be fine Jan 09 22:41:53 xcomp: yes Jan 09 22:42:13 heh Jan 09 22:42:26 i'm gonna have to rebuild evas against libjpeg62 ... I guess I had too much on my mind to notice that it was already there Jan 09 22:42:31 I built against libjpeg7 Jan 09 22:42:35 xcomp: nice work on evas - do we have it buildable in a repo yet? Jan 09 22:43:03 rwhitby: tell me the requirements Jan 09 22:43:25 there were a couple of hiccups building Jan 09 22:43:26 ali1: send me an ssh key Jan 09 22:43:51 for one, I have to manually replace libtool after running configure in each dir Jan 09 22:44:08 although that might be a function of my system having libtool 2.x Jan 09 22:44:12 xcomp: that dont sound right Jan 09 22:44:21 u need more autotools practive Jan 09 22:44:40 PuffTheMagic: it puts libtool 2.x inside the dir instead of 1.5.26 Jan 09 22:44:46 causing compile to fail Jan 09 22:44:53 so my shit is still f'd Jan 09 22:45:22 in theory we could have both versions of libjpeg installed - but the .so link has to go to 62 Jan 09 22:45:27 the other part I'm not sure of is what install prefix I should be using Jan 09 22:45:43 and evas would have to explicitly link 7 Jan 09 22:45:56 why did he build evas agains 7 anyway Jan 09 22:45:57 xcomp: we have a nonworking directory where we put stuff in progress Jan 09 22:45:58 jacques: evas doesn't require 7, I just downloaded 7 and built it Jan 09 22:46:09 rwhitby: ah, cool Jan 09 22:46:23 xcomp: OK np Jan 09 22:46:25 rwhitby: evas working is HUGE news Jan 09 22:46:48 PuffTheMagic: yep, I'm trying to contact raster right now Jan 09 22:46:59 xcomp: maybe some of us can help you with the build hiccups Jan 09 22:47:04 sonuva Jan 09 22:47:09 but it needs to be buildable in a repo before shouting about it Jan 09 22:47:15 have to give lots of credit to raster for making this stuff so cross platform compatible Jan 09 22:47:31 how do you avoid having wosqui download webosdoctor again when it's already downloaded? Jan 09 22:47:34 xcomp: tho I suspect some may go away in the ubuntu 9.10 env ... Jan 09 22:47:38 xcomp: what's the youtube link again? Jan 09 22:47:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsAuGSKbVhk Jan 09 22:49:22 rwhitby: have to leave now, but I'll try to work on getting it into a buildable/distributable state tonight Jan 09 22:50:02 PuffTheMagic: commander keen seems to run ok :) Jan 09 22:50:16 a little bit of graphics artifacting Jan 09 22:50:21 and needs keymaps Jan 09 22:50:24 xcomp: do I have your ssh key? Jan 09 22:51:24 rwhitby: no Jan 09 22:51:33 email? Jan 09 22:52:15 oh and no midi of course Jan 09 22:52:35 PuffTheMagic: watch Palm have evas in the PDK lol Jan 09 22:52:46 highly doubt it Jan 09 22:54:03 xcomp: summary of what you needed to do to build it? Jan 09 22:54:26 rwhitby: there are a ton of libs for efl Jan 09 22:54:32 oh man this evas vid is nice xcomp Jan 09 22:54:35 very exciting :D Jan 09 22:55:29 PuffTheMagic: yeah, I mean apart from the libs Jan 09 22:56:07 i.e. any major code changes required Jan 09 22:56:44 ehh the video came out like shit though Jan 09 22:56:47 dont do it justive Jan 09 22:56:49 justice Jan 09 22:58:37 xcomp: too bad the video dont show you interacgting with the main scene better Jan 09 22:58:41 rwhitby: is webosinternals.service.shell still available somewhere? Jan 09 22:58:48 AMR-1: absolutely not Jan 09 22:59:13 we rewrote git history to get rid of all trace of it Jan 09 22:59:34 there are plenty of examples now of how to do it right, in Java and C Jan 09 22:59:56 rwhitby: strictly speaking, you don't need anything else Jan 09 23:00:15 i built libungif so that the gif loader would be enabled but that's probably not necessary Jan 09 23:00:17 xcomp: excellent, so we will work on getting all the dep libs staged Jan 09 23:00:29 sp that it builds in the repo Jan 09 23:00:38 :) Thought I would try...I'm tryin to figure out how to chmod -x a file and stop a service from a code snippet. egaudet pointed me at upstart but I must be missing a peice cause I can't get it. Jan 09 23:00:43 it's eina and eet Jan 09 23:00:58 those are the two dependencies Jan 09 23:01:09 ecore requires evas Jan 09 23:01:31 xcomp: I'm going to see if I can get raster interested in helping Jan 09 23:01:52 (in case there are any optimisations he can do) Jan 09 23:02:00 rwhitby: yeah good idea Jan 09 23:02:30 he's got processor specific optimizations for x86 cpus Jan 09 23:02:48 but I know he's very familiar with ARM so he'd know what to do if he was willing to get into it Jan 09 23:03:35 we were discussing this a long time ago but back then we didn't have libSDL to make this possible Jan 09 23:03:47 xcomp: yeah, he optimizes for n800 at one stage Jan 09 23:03:54 rwhitby: can you point me at a snippet that uses UpstartService to kill a service from a js file? Jan 09 23:04:22 AMR-1: the wrappers for sdldoom and quake start a service, stopping is exactly the same Jan 09 23:08:34 evas needs a sdl + gles backend :-) Jan 09 23:09:42 jacques: evas has a gles backend Jan 09 23:09:56 I have all the code in there, but I can't get the actual call to the service to work. Unless I am missing something (most probably am), the doom et all wrappers are starting the services from command script files not js. Jan 09 23:10:17 xcomp: it does? I didn't see it in the source ... Jan 09 23:10:33 ./configure --enable-gles-flavor-sgx Jan 09 23:10:35 I see sdl software, opengl X11. and opengl glew Jan 09 23:10:35 So, is anyone alpha testing the new Preware which accesses the Palm app catalog feeds? Jan 09 23:10:48 xcomp: thanks! Jan 09 23:11:02 xcomp: currently your build is not using gles ? Jan 09 23:11:16 it has gles enabled Jan 09 23:11:29 ok great Jan 09 23:11:32 How important is fceux? I'm trying to figure out if i really want to port the opengl or not... Jan 09 23:11:32 the demo app/expedite doesn't support gles though Jan 09 23:11:44 aah, OK that was confusing me Jan 09 23:13:08 zsoc: help me finish vba gl port :) Jan 09 23:13:15 xcomp: git clone git@git.webos-internals.org:preware/cross-compile.git Jan 09 23:13:37 xcomp: then create a new dir under nonworking (we move it to packages when it builds automatically from scratch) Jan 09 23:14:01 xcomp: please make the OE package naming where possible (cause that's what Palm uses for packages in the rootfs) Jan 09 23:14:35 dtzWill: honestly it's pretty much porting the exact same quads i'm sure Jan 09 23:14:52 dtzWill: one for the viewport and one for interlaced/scanlines, right? Jan 09 23:14:58 oe package naming? Jan 09 23:15:40 xcomp: look in /usr/lib/ipkg/info/ Jan 09 23:16:09 xcomp: I made your video a favourite on http://www.youtube.com/webosinternals Jan 09 23:16:26 xcomp: nice monitor, btw Jan 09 23:16:45 xcomp: OE naming: http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes Jan 09 23:17:18 xcomp: http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/efl1 Jan 09 23:17:26 zsoc: lol thanks Jan 09 23:17:34 my movistar phone is working with the sprint webos... I've installed the 1.2.1 version and then update Jan 09 23:17:50 alex__: is movistar GSM? Jan 09 23:18:06 rwhitby: excellent, thanks Jan 09 23:18:07 rwhitby: no, it is HDSPA Jan 09 23:18:12 is movistart the same as mobistar? or am i thinking different countries? Jan 09 23:18:32 alex__: nod, gsm/umts Jan 09 23:18:58 zsoc: movistar is in spains, I don't now the name in other countries Jan 09 23:19:00 alex__: only thing you'll be missing is any modem firmware updates in 1.3.5 Jan 09 23:19:01 rwhitby: umts Jan 09 23:19:22 rwhitby: sprint has the 1.3.5 webos, and movistar the 1.3.1 Jan 09 23:19:22 alex__: I expect it does gsm too ;-) Jan 09 23:19:47 alex__: yes, I wrote the meta-doctor, so I'm aware of who has what version :-) Jan 09 23:20:06 what is metadoctor? Jan 09 23:20:18 perhaps I used it, but I'm newbie with pre ;p Jan 09 23:20:35 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Jan 09 23:20:44 21:59 <+destinal> alex__: yes, except we need to bypass a new check the doctor does Jan 09 23:20:51 sorry Jan 09 23:27:58 wow terrible bug in woskqui Jan 09 23:28:09 Robi_: only 1? Jan 09 23:29:27 heh Jan 09 23:29:28 :( I can't install need for speed via app catalog... can I probe it using another way? Jan 09 23:30:40 good morning Jan 09 23:30:53 anyone been watching this: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/SIP_Client Jan 09 23:31:02 Robi_: what's the bug? Jan 09 23:31:20 alex__: nope Jan 09 23:31:41 rwhitby: I saw that sip thing Jan 09 23:32:15 I didn't see any source links tho Jan 09 23:32:18 jacques: the new wave of apps for cross-compile? Jan 09 23:32:23 rwhitby: anything you'd like me to hit in particular this tuesday? Jan 09 23:32:44 jacques: http://www.pjsip.org/download.htm Jan 09 23:33:19 DarthPooh-Pre: the fact that Rubinstein came up to Rick after the keynote, shook his hand, and told him that he loves what webos-internals is doing. Jan 09 23:34:02 man, that is awesome Jan 09 23:34:12 DarthPooh-Pre: and alpha version of Preware which accesses the Palm app catalog feeds Jan 09 23:35:54 rwhitby: : good stuff, thanks Jan 09 23:36:08 DarthPooh-Pre: 2500 packages in Preware today Jan 09 23:36:16 I can't get my pre into diag mode. I do the ##usbpass# but I get this popup "Can't set passthrough state: com.palm.usbpassthrough is not running." Any ideas? Jan 09 23:36:27 Running 1.3.5.1 Jan 09 23:36:33 HiQ: what are you using passthrough for? Jan 09 23:36:54 So I can connect to my Pre and update my PRL Jan 09 23:37:03 loves when rwhitby asks questions like that... :) Jan 09 23:38:50 HiQ: access now requires a code in 1.3.5 - see your regular modem hacking forums for details Jan 09 23:39:27 rwhitby: Yeah I have my code. But when the next screen comes up I get that error. Jan 09 23:39:32 rwhitby: : how does it handle pay/free apps from the palm feed? Jan 09 23:39:47 DarthPooh-Pre: it just handballs to the app catalog app for purchase/download/install Jan 09 23:39:50 rwhitby: :( and can I install some good game? no quake, and no doom... I like to test the pre with a good and usable game Jan 09 23:40:10 alex__: you'll have to talk to your software vendor about that Jan 09 23:40:45 rwhitby: I'm using the Sprint webos that is 1.3.5 (sdl allowed), in my country, I only have 1.3.1 (no sdl, so no games) Jan 09 23:42:49 alex__: there is no discussion of accessing commercial software via alternate methods in this channel. Jan 09 23:43:08 if you want those games, purchase them from the Palm app catalog. Jan 09 23:43:32 rwhitby: I'm not talking about alternate way... I'm talking about credit card pay or somethign similar, but app catalog dont' let me do it Jan 09 23:43:58 alex__: yes, you need a US credit card Jan 09 23:43:58 I can't find the app in the app catalog Jan 09 23:44:08 only us card? :( Jan 09 23:44:12 yes Jan 09 23:44:21 I thinkg that I must wait... :( thanks for all Jan 09 23:45:05 alex__: the legal way that I did it was to activate a phone in the US, create a US Palm Profile, and add a US Visa debit card bought for me by a colleague in the US Jan 09 23:45:19 and then use all that from Australia Jan 09 23:45:33 hey i woke up with my pre updated without removing patches or themes... and now i can't download install or remove patches from preware, i removed the themes arleady. is there anything i can do Jan 09 23:45:43 melo: EPR Jan 09 23:46:08 i can't install epr from preware and tried epr from quickinstall and it didnt work Jan 09 23:46:41 melo: partial erase is your next option Jan 09 23:46:51 make sure you back up all your data first Jan 09 23:47:06 rwhitby: it's crazy for me do all this, only for a game... I must wait :) but thanks for ur help Jan 09 23:47:31 alex__: yep, that's the hoops that non-US people need to jump through at the moment Jan 09 23:47:49 what if i didnt want to erase anything like pictures and messages? Jan 09 23:48:15 melo: dunno, back them up first Jan 09 23:48:42 how do you make a clean copy from svn directories? Jan 09 23:48:56 what's the easiest way to backup the pictures and messages Jan 09 23:49:07 cuz i dont think it does that with the web backup Jan 09 23:49:16 usb drive mode Jan 09 23:49:39 ali1: just remove all the .svn dirs at all levels, then git add . at the top level Jan 09 23:49:51 rwhitby: appreciate all of the work you've been putting in on webos applications. I have a question if you don't mind. I've used preware to install a lot of patches and applications, then lost my data and Jan 09 23:50:54 had to restore. Data is back, but apps and patches don't show as installed anymore. if I try to reinstall through preware, get hunk messages and ipkg errors. anything i can do short of a wipe? Jan 09 23:51:42 wjclerk: probably not, unless you want to do lots of ipkg -o ..... remove commands Jan 09 23:52:26 is there a wholesale way to apply those ipkg commands (like with an application or a batch file), or do they have to be applied individually? Jan 09 23:53:18 to continue newb poundin on ppl who know...I have app-assistant.js in my tree, a command folder with the kill/start commands in them. Do I need the upstart folder since I'm not actually gonna start anything upon upping? Jan 09 23:53:22 wjclerk: if you can backup your data, do a full erase and then doctor, that would be best. Jan 09 23:53:50 how do i backup my messages using the usb drive mode? Jan 09 23:54:07 AMR-1: where's the code living - which public repository? Jan 09 23:54:18 Alright, will do. Thanks for letting me bounce the question off of you. I wish you lots of success in your palm endeavors, especially with us newbies around to ask simple questions. Jan 09 23:54:31 not ready for git yet Jan 09 23:54:39 melo: just ssh in and copy the /var/luna/data/dbdata/*.db3 to /media/internal Jan 09 23:54:42 melo: not that I know of. there are threads on PreCentral about how to do that Jan 09 23:54:52 rwhitby, any reason to recommend full erase over partial erase? Jan 09 23:54:54 then doctor, then copy those back Jan 09 23:55:07 egaudet: the unknown state of the device Jan 09 23:55:11 okies thanks Jan 09 23:55:12 with latest doctor the media partition remains Jan 09 23:55:22 I *just* did this Jan 09 23:55:25 what do you mean? Jan 09 23:56:18 do i have to have my pre rooted for that robi? Jan 09 23:56:20 rwhitby: git add . then git commit? or do i just push to the server? Jan 09 23:56:22 data in /media/internal outside of cryptofs is supposed to be unknown, but it doesn't effect the state Jan 09 23:57:06 haha available applications in preware says 1234 Jan 09 23:57:47 ali1: git add . (make sure you're in a dir under nonworking), then git commit (make sure your email and name is set up in git config --global) and then git push Jan 09 23:58:49 supertux installs but doesn't load for me... interesting Jan 09 23:58:50 bah what a mistake to insall patches from wosqui Jan 09 23:59:00 now preware has no clue Jan 10 00:00:35 DarthPooh-Pre, try to run it from terminal and see the error output Jan 10 00:01:08 egaudet: will do Jan 10 00:02:17 git push ascisson@git.webos-internals.org:/games/ioquake3.git Jan 10 00:02:20 does that look right? Jan 10 00:03:24 i swear i need to read a book on git Jan 10 00:04:12 ali1: fwiw i was unable to push if i co'd from the 'normal' url--i had to checkout from that url to be able to push (then you can just use 'git push') Jan 10 00:04:28 ali1: i'd be surprised if there wasn't a way to fix it, but just saying that was my experience Jan 10 00:04:44 ali1: until i commited quake1 I had never used git either :) Jan 10 00:05:43 you can setup different references using git .. so you can add a reference to the private url .. so it would look something like git push private .. at least i am pretty sure Jan 10 00:05:52 so i just git checkout ascisson@git.webos-internals.org:/games/ioquake3.git ? Jan 10 00:06:33 god i'm awful Jan 10 00:06:42 there's git clone to get the repo .. pull to update .. and push to .. push Jan 10 00:06:45 because i'm not doing a wrapper like doom does, i'm stuck at how to make the startservice call from an event. in doom it looks like app-assistant.js kicks off, then parameters: { 'id': id}, does something that I can't follow to where it makes it to the scripts in the command folder Jan 10 00:08:07 how do i create that /games/ioquake3.git on the repo? Jan 10 00:09:47 ali1: git@ Jan 10 00:09:53 ali1: I believe rwhitby's intent was for you to commit to a dir under nonworking in the cross-compile.git repo Jan 10 00:10:07 oh Jan 10 00:10:08 not to create a new repo Jan 10 00:10:13 whoops Jan 10 00:10:18 we can do a new repo if you like Jan 10 00:10:32 on minute Jan 10 00:10:33 no thats fine i was just confused Jan 10 00:10:34 rwhitby: how? I don't know that one :-) Jan 10 00:10:47 jacques: let me set you up for it Jan 10 00:13:46 Since Palm removed the mpt command in 1.3.5.. Is there anything similar or do you have to use ##usbpass# ? Is there a way to start com.palm.usbpassthrough from terminal if it isn't running? Jan 10 00:14:32 HiQ: have you tried copying that mpt program from a previous doctor image? Jan 10 00:14:57 fucking a Jan 10 00:15:01 destinal: I have not. Is it just that easy? Does it rely on other things? Jan 10 00:15:01 gotta dr this shit Jan 10 00:15:04 im going nuts Jan 10 00:15:11 HiQ: no idea, just wondering Jan 10 00:15:24 I don't use usbpassthrough myself Jan 10 00:15:43 destinal: Hmm.. worth a shot I guess. I wish I could just get com.palm.usbpassthrough running. Dunno why it's not. Jan 10 00:15:52 okay pushing it onto cross-compile Jan 10 00:16:09 we really really really need a way to store/restore IM's Jan 10 00:16:13 rwhitby, by the way i did get the feeds to work Jan 10 00:16:22 PuffTheMagic: there's a .db somewhee Jan 10 00:16:26 it's pretty easy? Jan 10 00:16:28 no shit Jan 10 00:16:31 * zsoc shrugs Jan 10 00:16:38 Jack87: working ok? Jan 10 00:16:38 sure there is a db Jan 10 00:16:48 but its not an app yet Jan 10 00:16:57 move it to /media/internal, move it back after the doctor? does that not work anymore? i haven't doctored since.. 1.2.1 Jan 10 00:17:13 probably have to read the db and export individual entries as files or something Jan 10 00:17:17 rwhitby, i think so for viewing Jan 10 00:17:21 on media internal Jan 10 00:17:30 then restore part imports each one into the db Jan 10 00:17:44 rwhitby, havent been able to install anything just ipkg errors Jan 10 00:18:16 Jack87: ? - it should jump to the app catalog for those - do you have the latest version? Jan 10 00:18:36 rwhitby: evas based preware is gonna be amazing Jan 10 00:18:40 so is evas based wIRC Jan 10 00:18:41 :D Jan 10 00:19:03 latest preware/webos? Jan 10 00:19:05 * rwhitby wonders how evas enhances installing packages ... Jan 10 00:19:16 i believe i have latest for both Jan 10 00:19:19 Jack87: use the preware-bootstrap to make sure you have the latest from testing Jan 10 00:19:30 rwhitby: functionally it dont, visually it would Jan 10 00:19:30 roger that Jan 10 00:19:43 rwhitby: but if you are anti evas then w/e Jan 10 00:19:49 wont waste my time Jan 10 00:19:56 rwhitby: we figure out what's causing the missing app catalog entries yet? Jan 10 00:22:37 Dumb question.. but what's the easiest way to copy a file from my computer to /usr/bin on the Pre? Jan 10 00:22:46 rwhitby, what feed is preware-bootstrap in i cant find it Jan 10 00:23:00 evas based terminal with mind reading controls Jan 10 00:23:13 Jack87: http://bit.ly/dDEMO i believe Jan 10 00:23:27 Jack87: last three lines on the wiki page Jan 10 00:23:36 zsoc: haven't bothered looking yet Jan 10 00:24:46 rwhitby, ill just run the commands manually Jan 10 00:25:38 Jack87: just run the preware-bootstrap script, seriously. Jan 10 00:25:53 rwhitby, all done Jan 10 00:26:42 rwhitby: zip file from ares is here: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2142773#post2142773 - very raw Jan 10 00:27:11 #wirc Jan 10 00:28:21 quit Jan 10 00:28:57 rwhitby, i just tested it on twee-free it installed it acroding to preware without ipkg errordid not go to catalog Jan 10 00:30:34 rwhitby, tetris app gives me ipkg error still after the bootstrap was ran. sould i reboot pre for changes to take effect? Jan 10 00:30:36 Jack87: that's probably a homebrew app, not an app catalog app Jan 10 00:30:54 Jack87: bootstrap script does all that. did you update both preware and ipkgservice? Jan 10 00:31:29 preware is 9.12 Jan 10 00:32:08 9.29 is ipkg service Jan 10 00:32:19 update feeds? what is the ipkg error say Jan 10 00:32:26 s/is/does/ Jan 10 00:32:27 egaudet meant: update feeds? what does the ipkg error say Jan 10 00:32:43 egaudet, ill check in a bit Jan 10 00:33:30 hey room, was hoping to get some help with ssh... Jan 10 00:34:06 can't seem to get the key to authorize correctly :\ Jan 10 00:36:07 Jack87: so you didn't run the bootstrap script and accept the alpha testing feeds then Jan 10 00:36:26 sure did... pushedy and all Jan 10 00:36:48 trying to run it again.. but this time.. its stuck at starting installation and doesnt continue Jan 10 00:37:01 this font metrics stuff in tuxracer doesn't make sense to me :( Jan 10 00:37:17 Where are the files located in the filesystem that are copied into usb mode folder? Jan 10 00:37:18 Jack87: do you have the latest bootstrap script? Jan 10 00:37:55 hum... the regular bootstrap.... hum maybe not i havent installed it for about a month now Jan 10 00:38:15 HiQ: /media/internal/ Jan 10 00:38:20 Jack87: you need the latest preware-bootstrap for 1.3.5 Jan 10 00:38:26 zsoc: TY very much Jan 10 00:39:13 rwhitby, the optware one?? Jan 10 00:41:14 link? Jan 10 00:41:33 Jack87: last three lines of http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware Jan 10 00:41:57 roger that Jan 10 00:42:52 who has a link for WOQI Jan 10 00:42:55 where does supertux install to? trying to run it in term and find out why it's not running Jan 10 00:43:07 rwhitby, so that must be different then the first link you gave me Jan 10 00:43:31 Jack87: I didn't give you a link before. I said the preware wiki page Jan 10 00:44:05 rwhitby, oh sorry that was zsoc|nfl Jan 10 00:44:06 not unless I need a service I didn't install... Jan 10 00:44:22 Is there a way to run system services through terminal? Jan 10 00:44:24 DarthPooh-Pre: if you used Preware, the service would automatically install Jan 10 00:44:30 I've pushed ioquake3 onto cross-compile Jan 10 00:44:35 zsoc link was 9.29 Jan 10 00:44:35 finally Jan 10 00:45:30 everybody and dtzWill take a look if you want its not really great Jan 10 00:45:34 rwhitby: ok, I have and it did (script ran). I get a quick notification on the dash that it's starting and then nothing Jan 10 00:45:53 preware doesn't work very well over 3G since the last couple of versions, just sits at the feed download screen Jan 10 00:46:22 it seems like it gives up Jan 10 00:46:49 PuffTheMagic: you mean this one: http://www.precentral.net/sites/precentral.net/files/webos-homebrew-apps/wosqi/WebOSQuickInstall.jar Jan 10 00:46:57 yeah i got it Jan 10 00:46:59 thanks Jan 10 00:48:24 DarthPooh-Pre, cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.supertux && ./supertux Jan 10 00:48:58 err sorry Jan 10 00:49:02 DarthPooh-Pre, cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.supertux && ./bin/supertux Jan 10 00:49:19 no copy and paste in wIRC? Jan 10 00:49:36 or cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.supertux/bin && ./bin/supertux Jan 10 00:49:40 or cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.supertux/bin && ./supertux Jan 10 00:49:42 wow I'm done Jan 10 00:49:46 ali1: did you push nanoGL too then? Jan 10 00:49:59 nope Jan 10 00:50:00 its in ioquake3 Jan 10 00:50:13 ioquake3/code/nanoGL Jan 10 00:50:19 egaudet lol, you tired? Jan 10 00:50:28 ali1: kk. we might wanna pull it out at some point just so it can be re-used. when i get a change i'll push my fixes, etc, to it Jan 10 00:50:34 s/change/chance/ Jan 10 00:50:35 dtzWill meant: ali1: kk. we might wanna pull it out at some point just so it can be re-used. when i get a chance i'll push my fixes, etc, to it Jan 10 00:50:39 :P Jan 10 00:53:57 alright! Jan 10 00:54:15 rwhitby, i updated via bootstrap on those 3 lines.. i get an error http/1.1 404 not found Jan 10 00:54:23 hum.... i have a connection. Jan 10 00:54:43 the wget server return is that Jan 10 00:56:24 egaudet: it opened from terminal Jan 10 00:57:06 rwhitby, i am turning each feed on one by one Jan 10 00:57:23 DarthPooh-Pre, try typing start org.webosinternals.supertux Jan 10 00:57:45 * rwhitby bbl Jan 10 00:57:45 from term? Jan 10 00:57:54 any particular prompt? Jan 10 00:59:12 anywhere is fine Jan 10 00:59:42 ali1: it'll be good to get that ioquake3 into a separate repo under games, it's too big for cross-compile (which is designed to get actual package contents from elsewhere) Jan 10 01:00:11 rwhitby, ok it directlys me to the catalog now.. the error i was going i think had to do with the way i setup the webosinternals testing feed Jan 10 01:00:18 rwhitby: alright then Jan 10 01:00:41 egaudet: starts just fine that way as well Jan 10 01:00:46 initctl list |grep upstart Jan 10 01:00:47 ali1: setting up the repo now Jan 10 01:01:37 ali1: repo ready: git@git.webos-internals.org;games/ioquake3.git Jan 10 01:02:02 alright, thanks Jan 10 01:02:11 oops, s/;/:/ Jan 10 01:02:44 rwhitby: boo Jan 10 01:03:02 raster: hey Jan 10 01:03:31 raster: xcomp has left - he's the guy who did the compile - no changes required apparently Jan 10 01:03:39 (just lib compile and staging) Jan 10 01:03:39 i know :) Jan 10 01:03:51 he did entrance Jan 10 01:03:54 (in e svn) Jan 10 01:04:10 Subject: E SVN: xcomputerman trunk/expedite/src/bin Jan 10 01:04:10 ... Jan 10 01:04:14 raster: ah, cool. Jan 10 01:04:19 Log: Jan 10 01:04:19 Add HVGA to available profiles (Palm Pre, iPhone) Jan 10 01:04:42 :) Jan 10 01:04:46 dtzWill: funny thing, i've started quake3 with a +map param to jump ingame right away, and before it started the game it displayed all the textures/sprites/etc onto the screen Jan 10 01:05:05 raster: I need to head out for a bit. jacques or egaudet or dtzWill can show you our scratchbox2-based build environment if you're interested. Jan 10 01:05:05 rwhitby: there is an sdl port to webos cards:? Jan 10 01:05:08 egaudet: was that last for Mercury ? Jan 10 01:05:10 errr me Jan 10 01:05:13 still didn't display the game but uh its something? Jan 10 01:05:15 last i looked it was a custom shm system for the cards? Jan 10 01:05:25 ali1: it is something, nicely done Jan 10 01:05:27 raster: yes, palm libs create a card for you Jan 10 01:05:32 ie each cards is a blob of shared memory exposed to the surface handler Jan 10 01:05:37 raster: 1.3.5 firmware added SDL Jan 10 01:05:37 ali1: the fixes i have should fix rendering correctly, and should not be the cause of any errors Jan 10 01:05:51 ali1: which is why pushing them is important but not super essential Jan 10 01:05:52 aaaah ok Jan 10 01:05:53 new Jan 10 01:05:56 raster: we beat palm with doom and quake ports five days before their CES announcement Jan 10 01:06:03 heheheh Jan 10 01:06:09 DarthPooh-Pre, did you just tab "me" lol. Yea that last initctl line was for you Jan 10 01:06:14 dtzWill: let me get games/ioquake3 set up then Jan 10 01:06:15 cool Jan 10 01:06:18 all good Jan 10 01:06:25 ali1: sounds great :D Jan 10 01:06:26 raster: but of course I expect they intentionally put the libs out early to allow us to do that Jan 10 01:06:28 it means u shoudl also have elementary working in no time flat Jan 10 01:06:36 would love to see the faces at palm when internals kicks them in the ass every week.... Jan 10 01:06:42 wel l"make" is all u need Jan 10 01:07:03 AMR-1: we're just using the libs that they provided - they have done all the heavy lifting. there is no kicking anyone. Jan 10 01:07:13 rwhitby: what about gl? Jan 10 01:07:16 wonders if they take bets on how long it will take... Jan 10 01:07:19 do they have "gl in a card" ? Jan 10 01:07:20 AMR-1, word on the street is that they love watching the channel and see us find their gems Jan 10 01:07:22 raster: yep ES 1.1 Jan 10 01:07:26 (they'd need to fiddle with egl for that) Jan 10 01:07:26 and 2.0!! Jan 10 01:07:30 yea both Jan 10 01:07:31 only 1.1? Jan 10 01:07:37 oh, I'm behind. Jan 10 01:07:38 default is 2.0 even Jan 10 01:07:42 egaudet: I have no clue why mercury came up Jan 10 01:07:44 well then u could use evas gl enigne Jan 10 01:07:54 evas's gl engine is both desktop and gl-es2.0 Jan 10 01:08:04 tho u'd have to fiddle with its windowing system hooks Jan 10 01:08:08 kicking in a good way...like corpse humpin in COD.... ;) Jan 10 01:08:09 aside from bpadalino's triangle demo though I haven't seen any 2.0 ports yet, but 2.0 works (and is default set up by SDL libs) Jan 10 01:08:12 possibly write a gl-webos one Jan 10 01:08:14 or gl-sdl Jan 10 01:08:19 egaudet: nothing happened with initctl Jan 10 01:08:21 egaudet: i have a number of 2.0 examples Jan 10 01:08:27 as the gl-x11 front end is all about x11 (glx and x11 flavor of egl) Jan 10 01:08:35 egaudet: fwiw :) Jan 10 01:08:40 DarthPooh-Pre, then you don't have upstart manager installed, uninstall and reinstall supertux with preware Jan 10 01:08:49 dtzWill, wiki? source? Jan 10 01:09:02 egaudet, dtzWill, zsoc|nfl: you were looking for someone who knows GL - raster is your man. Jan 10 01:09:25 eeek Jan 10 01:09:26 :) Jan 10 01:09:37 (*and* he's another aussie) Jan 10 01:09:40 egaudet: grab the upstart or should it download automagically when installing? Jan 10 01:09:42 sweet, raster you are stuck here now forever! Jan 10 01:09:48 hahahah Jan 10 01:09:52 dont worry Jan 10 01:09:53 i' Jan 10 01:09:56 i'll escape :) Jan 10 01:09:57 DarthPooh-Pre, preware will pick it up automatically as depednency Jan 10 01:10:00 i dont have a pre Jan 10 01:10:05 already have too many toys Jan 10 01:10:14 should prompt you "hey need to install/update this dependency" Jan 10 01:10:25 egaudet: raster has one purpose in life - to get e17 on as many devices as possible. once that's done, he will leave for another project. Jan 10 01:10:25 rwhitby: if you get a chance to look at the UpdateControl code i posted in the forums ...whenever...just tryin to make it easy for ppl without command line exp. Jan 10 01:10:42 egaudet: wonder why it didn't before Jan 10 01:10:45 and i'm busy consulting for the competition - which i have to say... has some fine-arse hardware.. and software :) Jan 10 01:10:48 so we'll just have to delay it :P Jan 10 01:10:52 drag it out Jan 10 01:11:15 raster, rwhitby started without a pre and he was hooked Jan 10 01:11:25 rwhitby: actually e17 might be a stretch as u'd need x... for webos Jan 10 01:11:26 :) Jan 10 01:11:26 ok, I gotta go buy some shade-cloth, it's 43degC here today Jan 10 01:11:29 DarthPooh-Pre, you sure you used preware Jan 10 01:11:44 raster, which competition? nokia ? Jan 10 01:11:46 Jack87: unlike rwhitby i have much better hw on my desk :) Jan 10 01:11:46 * rwhitby bbl Jan 10 01:11:58 Jack87: believe him - he has the best Jan 10 01:11:58 bpadalino: not nokia. samsung. Jan 10 01:12:01 ah neat Jan 10 01:12:31 raster, welcome :) Jan 10 01:12:32 he *is* the rasterman, you see, Jan 10 01:12:47 i just cant say anything about it until it's announced Jan 10 01:12:57 so.... u'll have to wait for the public info to be out :) Jan 10 01:13:00 * rwhitby really bbl Jan 10 01:13:05 sounds like a fun project :) Jan 10 01:13:16 the more you want to burst about it, the better it has to be, right ? Jan 10 01:13:38 samsung is pretty sucky at softwware - int he past for sure. but hw-wise they make some nice stuff Jan 10 01:13:43 especially in modern times Jan 10 01:13:51 zsoc|nfl, is your precorder project dead now that 1.4 will have video? Jan 10 01:13:57 agreed .. they make some nice hardware Jan 10 01:14:07 bpadalino: wel considring the thing runs e17... of course i do! :) Jan 10 01:14:11 ;) Jan 10 01:14:13 raster, my fav phone of all time was my samsun i500 Jan 10 01:14:13 and it runs it quite well Jan 10 01:14:39 dtzWill: games/ioquake3 is up if you want to start stuff Jan 10 01:15:08 anyway... it's cool to see evas working on webos Jan 10 01:15:13 didnt know sdl was now ported Jan 10 01:15:25 bbl Jan 10 01:15:26 tho technically u could just talk to the shm bits directly Jan 10 01:15:41 just as of the last update which was just after christmas Jan 10 01:16:33 <---- needs help with 5x4 icon patch Jan 10 01:16:47 i'mma get some donuts Jan 10 01:17:10 raster: good to have you stop by, even if only for a little while :) Jan 10 01:17:24 heehhehe Jan 10 01:17:27 actually am curious Jan 10 01:17:38 what is your ultimate goal - to allow proper development for webos? Jan 10 01:17:58 (proper meaning not having to cow to js+html goop that palm wants) ? Jan 10 01:18:16 eh, it's really not that bad Jan 10 01:18:28 with native development, that "goop" is really more of a backdrop now Jan 10 01:18:31 zsoc: we dont care about palm around here Jan 10 01:18:32 ;) Jan 10 01:18:37 * PuffTheMagic hides from the Palm people Jan 10 01:19:04 s/zsoc/raster Jan 10 01:19:14 s/Palm/plam/ Jan 10 01:19:15 a different front end besides luna might be interesting .. Jan 10 01:19:16 zsoc: well screw that if i am ever writign apps in js+html - slow. can't re-use existing apps/libs/code... unhappy developer. :) Jan 10 01:19:42 as palms only way to do apps is via that - then that makes webos "officially" uninteresting to me Jan 10 01:19:47 raster: we don't really have to anymore... that's the idea. Jan 10 01:19:48 tho yes- u are hacking round it Jan 10 01:19:51 then /part Jan 10 01:19:52 :P Jan 10 01:19:55 and finding ways to do it Jan 10 01:20:03 i wonder if palm will ever allow it officially Jan 10 01:20:03 do u even have a pre/pixi? Jan 10 01:20:04 :) Jan 10 01:20:04 raster: er, _they_ are hacking around it, as of March when their PDK comes, it'll be official api Jan 10 01:20:04 raster, well - they announced this SDL way of producing apps officially in March Jan 10 01:20:06 raster: being able to make evas apps that integrate with Luna would be really nice Jan 10 01:20:17 and that was shown to work well already today Jan 10 01:20:26 this would be a cool game engine I think, cant get it to compile but i suck http://love2d.org Jan 10 01:20:34 raster: heck, don't like SDL? direct egl access for surfaces works too Jan 10 01:21:06 PuffTheMagic: that shouldnt be hard Jan 10 01:21:24 raster: nope its not just using the sdl backend seems to do the trick Jan 10 01:21:46 raster: it was hard before palm released their sdl libs with Luna integration though Jan 10 01:22:08 yeah Jan 10 01:22:16 tyhats what u'd have to do yourselves Jan 10 01:22:21 do theluna glue Jan 10 01:22:23 now palm did that for u Jan 10 01:22:30 right, makes everyone happy :> Jan 10 01:23:31 maybe native dev will be supported in future Jan 10 01:23:36 after all the bitching by people about lack of it Jan 10 01:23:37 :) Jan 10 01:23:49 raster: no they already announced it :> Jan 10 01:23:59 raster: that's what Palm's PDK is, public in march Jan 10 01:24:15 zsoc: oooh it *IS* now supported... hmm. interesting Jan 10 01:24:16 raster: we just don't want to wait so we did our own crosscompile env Jan 10 01:24:27 well as of march Jan 10 01:24:33 as of tday - still not officially supported Jan 10 01:24:34 :) Jan 10 01:25:14 raster: heh, sure.. .I guess for some people that matters more than others. makes it commercially viable for instance Jan 10 01:25:22 raster: palm controls us really well around here... they /apparently/ had an internal bet going about how long it would take for us to get an icon-launched doom going after 1.3.5 update came out (also, they pretended like it was just a bug fix) Jan 10 01:25:24 for us, if it technically works, great Jan 10 01:25:45 zsoc: nah 1.3.5 was a big release Jan 10 01:25:48 "officially" supported as of 1.3.5, not "publicly". I mean the game developers like EA have "official" native apps in the catalog Jan 10 01:25:53 destinal: well makes it possible to redistribute the thing u make to 99% of palm users Jan 10 01:26:03 ie those users ONLY can install via the palm app store Jan 10 01:26:15 (they'd need significant knowledge and work to get around that) Jan 10 01:26:21 raster, they released web install also Jan 10 01:26:22 raster: yes, they are the gatekeepers. I envy android's OTA install switch right about now Jan 10 01:26:30 you can install non-reviewed apps Jan 10 01:26:49 egaudet: oooh really? as of when? Jan 10 01:26:52 egaudet: uh, wait, is that OUT? Jan 10 01:26:58 or just announced Jan 10 01:27:00 raster: what's your opinion about GL (and ES) forcing future thinking by removing less efficient (albeit commonly used) apis and methods? Jan 10 01:27:07 there's already apps doing it Jan 10 01:27:18 egaudet: please point me at one? Jan 10 01:27:19 zsoc: paint in the arse Jan 10 01:27:21 err pain Jan 10 01:27:26 lol Jan 10 01:27:27 egaudet: they still go through security review Jan 10 01:27:37 but i dealt with it Jan 10 01:27:43 i ended up re-writing the gl engine for evas Jan 10 01:27:49 to be both gl + gl-es2 based Jan 10 01:27:53 a few minore #ifdefs Jan 10 01:28:01 but i need to stick to a gl-es2 subset of gl Jan 10 01:28:08 also it means i need to entirely be shader-dependant Jan 10 01:28:26 http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.gdialpro.visualvoicemail.rapid Jan 10 01:28:58 raster: it would probably take you 22 seconds, but for a guy who wouldn't recognize GLSL if it was tatoo'd on him before 5 days ago, it takes me like an hour to convert Quads into Triangle_Strips and not have something end up upsideown :P Jan 10 01:29:22 egaudet: yep, automatic security review (they have tools to do it) Jan 10 01:29:43 although i definitely see the advantage of vertex arrays and/or vbos, just seems like a pain for people who have done this for 10 years Jan 10 01:29:44 rwhitby-pre, when are we getting preware installer up there :P Jan 10 01:29:45 egaudet: ummm doesnt look like web install to me... :) Jan 10 01:29:59 egaudet: uh, so that doesn't show in the main catalog but if you follow a link you can page it to your phone? Jan 10 01:30:08 egaudet: it wouldn't get through Jan 10 01:30:13 zsoc: hahahahhaha. that is a pain indeed. but even just that inst enough for goot performance Jan 10 01:30:31 egaudet: type: game is not accepted in web channel Jan 10 01:30:36 zsoc: i rebuilt the engine to use vertex arrays heavily and avoid flushing them to draw cmds whyenever i can Jan 10 01:30:46 but right now gl AND gl-es have a major issue imho Jan 10 01:30:51 destinal, yea follow the link: http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.gdialpro.visualvoicemail.rapid on your pre Jan 10 01:31:00 raster: that explains why it's so awesome ;) Jan 10 01:31:02 that i cant universally access the texture inits via indexes from a shader Jan 10 01:31:16 destinal: on the pre Jan 10 01:31:25 ie i cant pre-load tex units 0-7 (or how ever many u have. most gl-es units hav 8, desktop can have 16, 32 or 64 or more) Jan 10 01:31:34 raster: lol, there's a guy in ##opengl that would _love_ to argue that with you Jan 10 01:31:35 and then just access "texture on unit 4" Jan 10 01:31:48 were 4 is passed in like the verticies for triangles, colors, etc etc. Jan 10 01:31:52 thats currently not possible Jan 10 01:31:59 i didn't know type: game was prohibited I guess that's good Jan 10 01:32:05 can you do it with D3D? Jan 10 01:32:08 tex unit #'s need to be pre-defined as constants before shader is used Jan 10 01:32:14 egaudet: yep Jan 10 01:32:34 egaudet: I had a chat with Palm security about it Jan 10 01:32:45 zsoc: is he rtfm_ftw ? Jan 10 01:32:51 rwhitby-pre: you had to tip them off, didn't you? :P Jan 10 01:33:02 who knows if type: _used_ to be checked automatically Jan 10 01:33:12 destinal: they were already on top of it Jan 10 01:33:15 raster: yes actually... that's almost scary, i guess his reputation preceeds him. he has an entourage of people that call him the GL god lol Jan 10 01:33:16 ah ok Jan 10 01:33:37 zsoc: i call him a complete arsehole Jan 10 01:33:53 he's one of 2 peolpe on my /ignore list Jan 10 01:33:59 that's what i always thought myself lol, but his is a bit of a guru so .. y'know :) Jan 10 01:34:11 i wouldnt call him that Jan 10 01:34:18 rwhitby: oh i meant to ask you, what are shade clothes? Jan 10 01:34:37 cloths Jan 10 01:34:51 but as such - i've done my research - and there is an nvidia extension to hav texture arrays and index them from shaders - but only an extension Jan 10 01:34:52 raster: well, ##opengl is rather small here, so speaking comparatively :) Jan 10 01:34:54 oh there is another way Jan 10 01:35:08 official vertex arrays - but these requrie every texture to be the same size Jan 10 01:35:11 raster: why aren't you working with opengl dev directly? Jan 10 01:35:26 i want to just address a tex unit with its texture bound - regardless of its dimensions Jan 10 01:35:29 rwhitby: ... then why not say clothes? Jan 10 01:35:29 and so it portablky Jan 10 01:35:34 cant be done currently :) Jan 10 01:36:11 zsoc: the opengl libs i care about (gl-es) come in closed form from imgtec except for 1 Jan 10 01:36:14 I can't say i grasp the concept entirely, but it sounds... like something only a guy like you would come up with ;) Jan 10 01:36:23 the 1 that doesnt.. that i axctually have soruce for, i work with the developers of it Jan 10 01:36:34 ah, yeah I never understood the relationship between imgtec and khronos... it seems.. shady. Jan 10 01:36:39 but my issue is - i dont want to go and write multiple paths Jan 10 01:36:46 one for a system with the extension and one without Jan 10 01:36:49 its a pita Jan 10 01:37:17 as such my drawing paths would be fairly different so its large amoutns of code being split into the 2 paths Jan 10 01:37:22 zsoc: shade sails? Jan 10 01:37:29 Hi all :) Jan 10 01:38:03 rwhitby-pre: nah man, i'm lost. it's ok. you aussies will just always have certain code words ;) Jan 10 01:38:29 stuff to shade big areas from the sun Jan 10 01:38:53 OH! Like a really large brimmed hat? Jan 10 01:38:59 zsoc: lol Jan 10 01:39:25 anyone else get this: Jan 10 01:39:28 code/nanoGL/src/nanogl.cpp: In function 'void nanoGL_Destroy()': Jan 10 01:39:28 code/nanoGL/src/nanogl.cpp:427: error: expected `;' before 'glEsImpl' Jan 10 01:39:31 * zsoc gimps a picture of rwhitby with a huge brimmed hat Jan 10 01:39:39 hey zsoc... clothes != cloths Jan 10 01:39:46 timepants: oh no.. here it comes.. raster is going to rant about nanoGL now ;) Jan 10 01:39:50 egaudet: 1 second. Jan 10 01:39:54 oh Jan 10 01:40:03 /zips mouth Jan 10 01:40:06 zsoc: no :) Jan 10 01:40:09 <.< Jan 10 01:40:20 raster: no? you dont hate it? Jan 10 01:40:31 i havent run across it Jan 10 01:40:36 so i have no reason to hate or like it yet Jan 10 01:40:45 but trust me - i'm unlikely to touch it Jan 10 01:40:51 gl-es is what is out there Jan 10 01:40:55 its widely supported Jan 10 01:40:58 hm, surprising i think :) as to my understanding it's just a wrapper for GL -> GLES Jan 10 01:41:09 its about the onyl way to access 3d accel transistors on most hw Jan 10 01:41:14 omg fresh donuts are awesome Jan 10 01:41:28 zsoc: i already attacked that directly without its help :) Jan 10 01:41:34 * dtzWill grabs one of ali1's donuts >_> <_< Jan 10 01:41:37 (ty) Jan 10 01:41:41 egaudet: i see now, ty Jan 10 01:41:41 rwhitby-pre: hot down there in SA today? Jan 10 01:41:56 raster: i'm sure your way is much more efficient :> Jan 10 01:42:03 raster: yeah, 43 today Jan 10 01:42:10 i see max forcast for adelaide of 43 Jan 10 01:42:20 rwhitby-pre: nice.... NOT Jan 10 01:42:26 at least max here is 29 Jan 10 01:42:29 heh Jan 10 01:42:32 but trhe ac is on and blowin' Jan 10 01:42:32 41 for us in Melbourne tomorrow :( Jan 10 01:42:42 * zsoc is now listening to Ben Folds - Adelaide Jan 10 01:43:04 zsoc: not necessarily Jan 10 01:43:06 raster: have you heard of glesport? Jan 10 01:43:23 zsoc: i just use gl calls - they are the same on gl and gl-es *IF* u stick to the gl-es subset of gl Jan 10 01:43:26 shaders are also the same Jan 10 01:43:32 heh nevermind, there really was a missing semicolon... just an fyi for anyone who's building ioquake3 from git Jan 10 01:43:35 but thats why i went to gl-es2 as opposed to 1 Jan 10 01:43:37 the rest of it built fine Jan 10 01:43:38 raster: yes i've noticed that actually :) Jan 10 01:43:41 2 is shader only, 1.1 is no shaders at all Jan 10 01:43:55 thus why i now built entirely around shaders Jan 10 01:44:03 the pita is the stupidity of shader compiling Jan 10 01:44:08 programmable shaders are awesome, i just can't.. do it. heh Jan 10 01:44:18 in gl-es2 - a shader compiler (runti) is optional Jan 10 01:44:25 it may not be implemented on the gl libs u have Jan 10 01:44:26 raster: makes me think of the gl-es project as a bit inconsistent in direction and not much for compatibility.... Jan 10 01:44:34 it struck me as odd that i was compiling glsl at runtime Jan 10 01:44:46 so u need to handle offline compiling as binary blobs FOR the specific gl implementation/gpu u have Jan 10 01:44:54 and include binary blobs in your build tree Jan 10 01:44:57 that is just a pita Jan 10 01:45:00 its wrong Jan 10 01:45:03 gles has some restrictions too that gl doesn't have right? Like color array HAS to be 4 Jan 10 01:45:21 it means u caont write gl-es2 code that "just compiles and works" on all gl-es2 implementations Jan 10 01:45:27 (if u do it portably and carefully) Jan 10 01:45:43 u literally have to explicitly write suport foe any implementation that doesn tincldue a runtime compiler Jan 10 01:45:51 hey all, wI just complied doom via the instructions on the wiki and I'm getting this error. Any idea what i did wrong? "Error: Could not initialize SDL: No available video device" Jan 10 01:46:07 timepants: whoops i'll fix that in a jiff Jan 10 01:46:11 etx_: you have a pixi or you have the myvirus patch installed Jan 10 01:46:19 anyway - that bit jst pisses me off as it makes it an unsolvable task from my point of view Jan 10 01:46:26 raster: how can one tell if their gles implementation has a runtime sl compiler? Jan 10 01:46:26 etx_: or you don't have 1.3.5 installed Jan 10 01:46:28 as i just cant universally suport it Jan 10 01:46:33 raster: what's your solution to it? Jan 10 01:46:38 egaudet: dunno. i never used colors with more than 4 elements :) Jan 10 01:46:39 It's a pre with 1.3.5.1 Jan 10 01:46:52 etx_: mytether with the wifi kernel patch? Jan 10 01:46:57 jacques: u call the compile call and it fails. :) Jan 10 01:47:05 raster: :-) Jan 10 01:47:06 mean pointer size (gl supports 3 or 4, gles only 4) Jan 10 01:47:08 or you just know this - fafter having tried it Jan 10 01:47:18 but i'm an extreme noob to any gl stuff Jan 10 01:47:21 and then have to explicitly put in suport for an offline compile stage @ lib compile time Jan 10 01:47:30 and include the binary blob resutls to upload as shader binaries Jan 10 01:47:31 etx_: output of ' lsmod | grep pvr ' wouldn't hurt Jan 10 01:47:42 no patches, just doctored it yesterday to 1.3.5 and then updated to 1.3.5.1, quake and NFSU work on it Jan 10 01:47:57 zsoc: the above. need to have a compile stage at lib compile time Jan 10 01:47:59 etx_: now, _that's_ interesting Jan 10 01:48:01 i did this for the s3c65410 Jan 10 01:48:05 as that has no runtime compiler Jan 10 01:48:06 zsoc: "pvrsrvkm 143192 2 bc_example,omaplfb" Jan 10 01:48:08 raster: runtime compiling works on webos btw, when i said i couldn't do it i just meant i was _bad_ at it Jan 10 01:48:22 i had to create a little abstraction system - but it kind-of-works Jan 10 01:48:28 i alreayd -repcompile the shades for u myself Jan 10 01:48:31 and put the binaries in the src tree Jan 10 01:48:33 etx_: ls /dev/fb1 ? Jan 10 01:48:37 as the compiler is a windows app - closed binary Jan 10 01:48:43 and i need to run it under wine to generate the stuff Jan 10 01:48:47 the scritps to do so are int he tree Jan 10 01:48:51 but the only one who can do it is me Jan 10 01:48:55 whihc is pretty absymal Jan 10 01:49:00 zsoc: "/dev/fb /dev/fb0 /dev/fb1" Jan 10 01:49:04 (in terms of having a proepr source tree) Jan 10 01:49:11 timepants: it built fine after that? Jan 10 01:49:11 framebuffer is there Jan 10 01:49:31 and at compile time u need to tell the build what flavor of gl-es u use Jan 10 01:49:32 ali1, yessir Jan 10 01:49:37 etx_: you could try launching doom with something like SDL_FBCON=/dev/fb1 to force it over Jan 10 01:49:40 sgx, s3c6410, or somethnig else Jan 10 01:49:47 so far i have only done support for sgx and s3c6410 Jan 10 01:49:57 zsoc: I'm just running it from roots home dir but I don't think that matters Jan 10 01:50:02 sgx has runtime compilers - so it also acts as a "universal" flavor Jan 10 01:50:02 timepants: cool then Jan 10 01:50:07 etx_: are you running as root? Jan 10 01:50:14 and the palm pre has a omap3430 - and thats an sgx Jan 10 01:50:21 thys your runtime compiler will work on webos Jan 10 01:50:37 destinal: nope! argh i think that might be it Jan 10 01:50:38 raster: ah, it's hardware dependent, i get it now Jan 10 01:50:46 yeah Jan 10 01:50:49 etx_: yes you must be root or in group video Jan 10 01:50:57 but the software neds to be compiled for specific hw then Jan 10 01:51:02 which makes portability horrible Jan 10 01:51:02 check perms on /dev/fb* Jan 10 01:51:07 eg u have 2 systems Jan 10 01:51:12 both have cortex-a8 Jan 10 01:51:15 hell doesnt matter Jan 10 01:51:22 i compile for armv4 lets say fgor max compat Jan 10 01:51:31 and i make a package Jan 10 01:51:33 raster: webos is a lot of fun btw :) true multitasking is very cool. I can be in here at work (30% of the room is generally in wIRC) and text, email, webbrowser, etc... Jan 10 01:52:03 that 1 package scant work on multiplt systems that are armv4 or better - because... if it uses gl-es - it is now dependant on the gl-es flavor entirely Jan 10 01:52:12 so u need a new one per system Jan 10 01:52:17 stooopid Jan 10 01:52:27 destinal: zsoc: that was it, i wasnt root thanks so much for your help Jan 10 01:52:27 I can't believe how long it takes me to parse your sentences, and I don't think it's the beer. Jan 10 01:52:35 etx_: i didn't do much, but ok :P Jan 10 01:52:47 heheh Jan 10 01:52:53 etx_: you're welcome, how did the walkthrough work for you? Jan 10 01:53:08 there's a packaging ipk part also btw Jan 10 01:53:31 raster: i also find the decision to support es1.1 /and/ 2.0 very interesting on webos Jan 10 01:53:41 destinal: it's great! I had some issues with getting the toolchain up but it worked perfectly after rwhitby made those tweaks the other day Jan 10 01:53:52 zsoc: they wanted to get a lot of developers up quickly to port existing 1.1 games Jan 10 01:54:10 destinal: i realize that, but that's only 1 facet Jan 10 01:54:13 thus the CM lib Jan 10 01:54:23 why do you think the current games have stability issues? :P Jan 10 01:54:27 the only programming i've ever done is just using frameworks on macos with objective-c so this stuff is quite a bit different for me Jan 10 01:54:52 anyone porting mame yet? Jan 10 01:55:12 rwhitby: should i add demo data files for quake 3? so people wouldn't have to fetch full version q3a? Jan 10 01:55:34 ali1: you have quake3 working? :O Jan 10 01:55:45 etx_: half working Jan 10 01:55:47 ali1: if they are redistributable, yes. Jan 10 01:55:58 ali1: very cool! can't wait to see it Jan 10 01:56:07 doesn't display anything but the game is running and stuff Jan 10 01:56:57 zsoc: both 1.1 and 2.0 is not hard for palm. they use an omap3430 - that comes with suport for got 1.1 and 2.0 FROM imgtec. so its already there provided from the gpu maker - via the soc maker. Jan 10 01:57:05 so it only makes sense to support both Jan 10 01:57:14 as such 2.0 is incompatible with 1.1 Jan 10 01:57:29 so if u wrote a 2.0 app - it cant downgrade to 1.1 by just disablign shaders for example Jan 10 01:57:33 and 1.1 is incompatible with 2.0 Jan 10 01:57:34 looks like we'll be getting an influx of .fr developers in a few months Jan 10 01:57:45 oui Jan 10 01:57:47 so if u have a 1.1 app it wont wor on 2.0 as u MUST have shaders to do anything Jan 10 01:58:05 Robi_: fils d'une salope! Jan 10 01:58:07 c'est bon Jan 10 01:58:21 nope nevermind, q3 demo paks isn't redestributable Jan 10 01:58:42 s/redestributable/redistributable Jan 10 01:59:02 zsoc: as for multi-tasking.,.. i assume u speak of iphone's wonderful policy of "1 app at a time" :) Jan 10 01:59:08 vs "run however many things u like" :) Jan 10 01:59:48 you could add a little script for wget'ing ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/quake3/linux/linuxq3ademo-1.11-6.x86.gz.sh Jan 10 02:01:58 :P Jan 10 02:02:02 postinst ftw Jan 10 02:02:33 or launch script with a test Jan 10 02:03:20 raster: yes, wonderful policy :> Jan 10 02:03:54 dtzWill: quake is really playable with blitted joystick btw, i can't say it enough Jan 10 02:04:07 timepants: i've tried downloading that and running it, doesn't seem to work Jan 10 02:04:28 at least not in ubuntu Jan 10 02:04:33 zsoc: i agree. single-tasking is a dumbing down by apple because syeve thinks peolpe are too stupid to handle any more Jan 10 02:05:03 i mouse button, 1 task.. Jan 10 02:05:04 zsoc: in that i think he is wrong - some people are too dumb. a lot really do want multiple things at once Jan 10 02:05:12 like u say - irc while doing other things :) Jan 10 02:05:50 zsoc: :D glad you like it. hopefully my opengl endeavors can make that even better :D Jan 10 02:06:13 one day i'm just gonna try to port quake straight up to es 2.0 Jan 10 02:06:25 ali1: iirc those patches actually contain the data, there's some magic you can do to extract the pak's Jan 10 02:07:01 dtzWill: something to look into once this is actually working Jan 10 02:07:05 ali1: haha. that would be awesome. Jan 10 02:07:08 ali1: :/ good call Jan 10 02:07:51 raster: so it sounds like for learning gl-es, 2.0 is the way to go at least on the pre, as it's more portable from straight opengl Jan 10 02:08:27 destinal: only if by "Straight gl" you mean gl 3.x Jan 10 02:08:38 to my understanding Jan 10 02:08:59 destinal: which most games that are pre candidates are targeted at a much earlier opengl that more matches gl|es 1.1 Jan 10 02:09:17 dtzWill: ah Jan 10 02:09:33 destinal: dont think its more portably than 1.1 - just a different subset. its more portable if u wwant more advanced/modern features tho Jan 10 02:09:36 destinal: hence a solid port of nanoGL would help us port more quickly; it does automatically what an ok porter would do :) Jan 10 02:10:06 PDK icon is hillarious Jan 10 02:10:17 dtzWill: especially since i don't think we have any 'ok porter's here. we have 4 or 5 guys that read an open gles 2.0 book last week lol Jan 10 02:10:24 like a super surprised face, that's out US power plug Jan 10 02:10:56 dtzWill: have you seen glesport (http://unrealvoodoo.org/cgi-bin/cgit/glesport.git/) Jan 10 02:11:46 no idea if it's any good Jan 10 02:12:36 technically u can do most of "full gl" on top of gl-es Jan 10 02:12:40 (2.0) Jan 10 02:12:47 u can implement gl-es1.1 on top of 2.0 Jan 10 02:13:07 (u just ned to provide a bunch of shaders that implement functions of the fixed pipeline) Jan 10 02:13:23 oh is that all? heh Jan 10 02:13:25 destinal: probably; but i don't remember that in particular.... although i'd be willing to do w/e porting is needed to see if that succeeds where nanoGL is failing for us Jan 10 02:13:42 zsoc: the opengl-es book has a demo of that. Jan 10 02:13:53 zsoc: but i'm not keen on doing it either :):) Jan 10 02:14:15 dtzWill: i know, but /1 really complicated example/ doesn't give me confidence i understand the concept in every situation :> Jan 10 02:14:33 zsoc: haha that it does not Jan 10 02:14:37 dtzWill: which book is this? Jan 10 02:14:39 destinal: ty for the link i'll look at it at some point Jan 10 02:14:51 destinal: http://opengles-book.com Jan 10 02:16:30 i like the idea of nanoGL but i think eventually we should move onto something 2.0 based Jan 10 02:16:50 even though i have no clue about the shader pipeline Jan 10 02:17:22 (i mean something like nanoGL built ontop of opengl|es 2.0 btw) Jan 10 02:17:30 ali1: agreed that somethign 2.0 based would be great. a good candidate i think is the http://code.google.com/p/gl-wes-v2/ which is exaclty that Jan 10 02:17:38 ali1 shaders are pretty easy stuff Jan 10 02:18:03 ali1: i started porting that, but it had some X11 stuff and it just got kinda dropped b/c it seemed overkill; and i 'knew' nanoGL would get us the quakes Jan 10 02:18:11 oh whats this video editing Jan 10 02:21:27 shame the quake classic for the iphone isn't out yet, id could have done the ES port for us :P Jan 10 02:21:39 er Jan 10 02:22:27 so, what's new and building in the repo to package up? Jan 10 02:23:37 i wish id would release doom 3 source already Jan 10 02:23:44 ali1: mind if I move ioquake3 stuff into a ./src subdir to leave room for the webos packaging around it? Jan 10 02:24:02 (like the other stuff in games/) Jan 10 02:24:04 rwhitby: not at all Jan 10 02:25:00 ali1: or do you want to do that at your end? Jan 10 02:25:05 i would have glesterm working if i wasn't so inclined to relax, drink a beer, and watch the playoffs. i actually feel relaxed for the first time since... can't remember. Jan 10 02:25:39 rwhitby: i don't trust myself Jan 10 02:26:04 zsoc: I am also relaxed Jan 10 02:26:48 ali1: done Jan 10 02:26:59 thank you! Jan 10 02:27:05 zsoc: native app / game support in webos is enhancing your calm, then? :) Jan 10 02:27:17 if anyone's having trouble installing the q3 demo, open the file in emacs and remove everything up to the end of the line "END_OF_STUB" and then run tar -xvzf against the new file Jan 10 02:27:30 destinal: totally :D Jan 10 02:27:55 timepants: is it wired only to work in emacs? ;) Jan 10 02:28:30 of course Jan 10 02:28:38 zsoc, haha no of course not Jan 10 02:29:02 * zsoc <3's vim like a troll Jan 10 02:29:09 zsoc, but emacs is pretty good at handling 50 meg files with binary embedded in them Jan 10 02:29:17 i'm sure vim does too Jan 10 02:29:26 eff that VIM FO' LYFE Jan 10 02:29:34 lulzget Jan 10 02:29:37 * ali1 v-signs Jan 10 02:29:44 i didn't want someone opening it up in notepad D: Jan 10 02:30:11 ali1: we need to go to an opensource conference with big V shirts and hand out fliers Jan 10 02:30:26 we have to be dressed as gangstas Jan 10 02:30:39 do a backwards spock thing Jan 10 02:30:46 http://www.freewear.org/?page=show_item&id=FW0041 <-- lol there's actually a shirt Jan 10 02:30:56 I think that air hockey will do for a multiplayer sdl game Jan 10 02:31:02 destinal: i would want it Jan 10 02:31:12 we need a multiplayer preware game Jan 10 02:31:13 i'll go and fight back with my permanently messed up pinky finger from emacs Jan 10 02:31:27 i will only do that when i become a CS professor Jan 10 02:31:33 s/do/wear Jan 10 02:31:58 zsoc: how would we find each other for multiplayer? local wifi adhoc, bluetooth PAN, or internet lobby? Jan 10 02:32:09 ali1: what version of ioquake3 is it? Jan 10 02:32:34 let me check but pretty much the latest from SVN Jan 10 02:32:49 ok moment of truth for ioquake3 Jan 10 02:32:50 here goes Jan 10 02:33:02 destinal: mdns is used in one of the palm games Jan 10 02:33:03 sweet, just got descent 2 running Jan 10 02:33:22 WARNING: pak0.pk3 is present but its checksum (2985612116) Jan 10 02:33:22 is not correct. Please re-install the point release Jan 10 02:33:23 ffs Jan 10 02:33:29 should be cool w/ accelerometer Jan 10 02:33:33 ali1: need a README in games/ioquake3.git which says where it came from please Jan 10 02:33:45 etx__: yeah it should :D Jan 10 02:33:52 heheheh Jan 10 02:34:07 etx__: awwww DESCENT, make it happen please :) Jan 10 02:34:19 yeah it's running real well actually Jan 10 02:34:30 rwhitby: is README.WEBOS fine? Jan 10 02:34:32 etx__: openGL? Jan 10 02:34:33 destinal: for it to be truly impressive, we'd need some server side goodness Jan 10 02:34:36 just gotta sort the controls Jan 10 02:34:47 destinal: we should port something that already have supporting lobbies :> Jan 10 02:34:59 destinal: no, it's the sdl port Jan 10 02:35:09 i suck at opengl heh Jan 10 02:35:26 well quake is software rendered too, should be a good start Jan 10 02:35:27 ali1: yeah, move that one level up is fine Jan 10 02:35:42 yeah Jan 10 02:35:43 ali1: is it 1.36 ? Jan 10 02:35:54 yeah 1.36 rev 1700 Jan 10 02:36:07 who's doing nanoGL? Jan 10 02:36:26 * rwhitby creates cross-compile/nonworking/ioquake3 Jan 10 02:36:43 me and dtzWill but we haven't combined stuff yet Jan 10 02:37:04 well me not as much as "work on" than "get it working" Jan 10 02:37:21 I vote for Descent too, i'm in the credits of Descent3 ]; Jan 10 02:37:25 ;] Jan 10 02:37:32 if anyone working on something can put it immediately in cross-compile/nonworking/... that will help reduce duplication of effort Jan 10 02:37:56 rwhitby: good call. a number of times we've stepped on each other's feet/projects haha Jan 10 02:38:28 im only in the credits of 1 video game, and i don't think we can get the rights to port it lol Jan 10 02:38:33 although it would be _awesome_ Jan 10 02:39:22 I've added cross-compile/nonworking/ioquake3/Makefile Jan 10 02:40:12 ah, I see libpdl and libsqlite3 added - very nice Jan 10 02:41:28 cross-compile/nonworking/ioquake3/Makefile updated - now starts the make command Jan 10 02:42:10 ali1: did you keep your changes separate from the upstream source with a git tag or something? Jan 10 02:43:29 ali1: what make command line to build please? Jan 10 02:45:07 rwhitby: just make Jan 10 02:45:20 ali1: no USE_WEBOS=1 ? Jan 10 02:45:28 all the relevate configuration is in Makefile.local buts its already set up Jan 10 02:45:33 ali1: no telling it how to find /usr/local/include/SDL ? Jan 10 02:45:34 ali1: well then, i should give you my title ;) Jan 10 02:45:58 ali1: ah, Makefile.local - ok. Jan 10 02:46:04 rwhitby: how can EPR need an update in preware? Jan 10 02:46:07 rwhitby: it'll find the SDL stuff fine Jan 10 02:46:14 Robi_: it cant Jan 10 02:46:21 i'm looking at it Jan 10 02:46:29 ali1: sdl_gamma.c didn't find SDL.h for me. Jan 10 02:46:30 zsoc: i had to edit the makefile a bunch in order for it to be just make :( Jan 10 02:46:54 egaudet: robi has an 'update available' epr Jan 10 02:47:26 what? Jan 10 02:47:31 let me see Jan 10 02:47:47 unless you install EPR without running the script it can't be there, just remove it Jan 10 02:47:51 zsoc: i removed it. I think the EPR versino wosqui uses is older and doesn't clean up properly, hence the preware 'package update' Jan 10 02:48:03 egaudet: :P Jan 10 02:48:17 oh god more wosqi fake otter trees Jan 10 02:48:27 ok so i run ioquake3 and i get the intro movie and then its black, but i can hear sound when i hit the keys... is that expected Jan 10 02:48:27 ? Jan 10 02:48:36 zsoc: fake otter trees? Jan 10 02:48:55 I don't understand why people need it, I rather install from my phone Jan 10 02:49:06 ali1: are you building with sb2? Jan 10 02:49:07 rwhitby: you're doing it under the scratchbox stuff right? Jan 10 02:49:10 yeah Jan 10 02:49:11 timepants: yes Jan 10 02:49:47 i think preware needs a 2d and 3d games section Jan 10 02:50:03 ali1: what I am doing is in cross-compile/nonworking/ioquake3/Makefile Jan 10 02:50:07 make build Jan 10 02:50:41 and it is only looking in /usr/include/SDL, which is not where we put SDL in sb2 - we stage into /usr/local/include/.... Jan 10 02:51:04 dtzWill, kk, well i got that far anyways Jan 10 02:51:06 :) Jan 10 02:51:58 Robi_: preware shows whatever the author puts as the category - there are no predefined categories in Preware itself Jan 10 02:52:38 I'm going to make a haberdasher app, and file it under 'haberdashery' Jan 10 02:52:58 hahaah Jan 10 02:53:13 zsoc: tis could get ugly Jan 10 02:53:31 no, that's the whole point, so you can look good ;) Jan 10 02:53:37 rwhitby: you don't need to define that stuff as the Makefile will include the Makefile.local file Jan 10 02:53:59 i'm gonna set up my scratchbox environment over again and try to build it Jan 10 02:54:04 wtf i click on a game to isntall it launches the app catalog which restarts my phone because it thinks i'm no longer signed into my palm profile Jan 10 02:54:07 ali1: oh, ok. Jan 10 02:54:31 now it's prompting me to erase all data Jan 10 02:54:37 WTF Jan 10 02:54:48 how about just sign IN again Jan 10 02:54:50 timepants: were you messing with quake3? Jan 10 02:55:09 yeah Jan 10 02:56:44 ali1: ah, my sdl-config seems to be busted **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 10 02:59:56 2010