**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 10 02:59:56 2010 Jan 10 03:00:33 great, now the phone rebooted into first run mode Jan 10 03:00:40 wosqui FTL Jan 10 03:02:26 rwhitby: ah alright. is that cross-compile wide or just you? Jan 10 03:02:33 * zsoc was eviscerated by a fiend Jan 10 03:02:55 ali1: looks like having libsdl on the host is being found first. it's really weird Jan 10 03:03:15 hrm Jan 10 03:03:35 i could put in another variable to force a defined directory Jan 10 03:03:38 I removed libsdl1.2-dev from host and now it works fine Jan 10 03:04:02 ali1: no, don't change anything - it's a system-wide problem, just don't know what Jan 10 03:04:14 alright Jan 10 03:04:32 i guess i never got it because i'm running it through a headless ubuntu vm install Jan 10 03:05:09 want's a kongregate 'app' come flash support Jan 10 03:05:34 ali1: yeah, I usually build on a server VM, but was using a desktop ub9.10 for this for convenience Jan 10 03:05:47 ali1: the instructions say ub9.10 server Jan 10 03:06:13 ah alright Jan 10 03:06:34 should sb2 isolate the build from the host via itrs ldpreloads on fs ops? Jan 10 03:06:43 ie the cross-build cant see the host system at all? Jan 10 03:07:10 raster: yes, it should, that's why this is weird. Jan 10 03:07:40 (and it is for other things) Jan 10 03:08:01 hmmm very odd Jan 10 03:08:07 old sb1 chrooted Jan 10 03:08:13 so that should have done the job too Jan 10 03:08:17 but u are right Jan 10 03:08:18 dtzWill: did you try to look up the symbols of GLES in nanoGL as well or did you do something differently? Jan 10 03:08:22 fix the core source of the issue Jan 10 03:08:32 ie - how the fuck does the sb2 env get polluted with host files/data Jan 10 03:08:42 raster: yep Jan 10 03:08:51 don't work around it, cause then you forget about it Jan 10 03:09:17 ali1: move ioquake from nonworking to packages - should build out of the box for everyone now Jan 10 03:09:28 s/move/I moved/ Jan 10 03:09:29 rwhitby meant: ali1: I moved ioquake from nonworking to packages - should build out of the box for everyone now Jan 10 03:09:32 ali1: ? Jan 10 03:10:09 ali1: if you get it working within the next 8 hours, I'll be able to package it tonight. Jan 10 03:10:27 dtzWill: in nanogl.cpp it looks up the function symbols of GLES_CM to get the function pointers for the GLESInterface struct Jan 10 03:10:34 destinal: should we just do type:game for this one? Jan 10 03:10:41 dtzWill: oh you mean dyopen the GLES lib and dlsym them in? Jan 10 03:10:42 i did the same thing but a little more arduosly Jan 10 03:10:47 yeah Jan 10 03:10:50 rwhitby: I think we should yeah Jan 10 03:11:08 ali1: well yeah they had it hardcoded in the order the libraryh came in. well and used the RLibrary or w/e Jan 10 03:11:38 dtzWill: i just used a bunch of regular expressions! Jan 10 03:11:39 raster: sb2 doesn't chroot -- it's a very different setup Jan 10 03:11:42 <3 regexps Jan 10 03:11:59 raster: you also don't have to "log in" to it Jan 10 03:12:30 ali1: you mean to generate the code? haha yeah Jan 10 03:12:34 if you do sb2-show path /usr/lib you'll see what it does Jan 10 03:12:35 ali1: vim macros ftw Jan 10 03:12:45 it remaps only for certain executables using a mapping file Jan 10 03:13:08 seriously i would've shot myself if i had to do it by hand Jan 10 03:13:25 timepants: and our mapping file is meant to map all of /usr/local to cross-compile/staging/armv7 Jan 10 03:14:02 yeah, it works well for me Jan 10 03:14:06 rwhitby: we should really include something to make it default so the -M mapping-file is unneeded Jan 10 03:14:17 i had major issues with zlib on my other machine but this one seems normal i think D: Jan 10 03:14:21 but yeah it works great as is Jan 10 03:14:40 destinal: if we know how to do that, yes. Jan 10 03:15:11 rwhitby: I have an idea but untested for the moment Jan 10 03:15:11 destinal: i know. sd2 ld_preloads Jan 10 03:16:14 raster: much depends on the config file though as far as how well you isolate things Jan 10 03:17:58 raster: we want a config which can be referenced by name (or be the default) but which does not interfere with other projects you might have using sb2 on the same machine (using a different named config) Jan 10 03:18:15 i.e. no hacking /usr/share/scratchbox2/... Jan 10 03:18:33 sb2 -M is the only way we've found so far Jan 10 03:19:58 dtzWill: bear with me because i don't know much about graphics, but if quake3 shows all the textures/sprites it loads before getting into the game, could that mean its displaying stuff from the wrong buffer or something? Jan 10 03:19:58 rwhitby: I think the mapping dir that's already there is like an init.d or profile.d, we should just be able to add another file to each of the modes with that one line Jan 10 03:21:12 destinal: agreed, we just need to find the magic incantation Jan 10 03:21:24 ali1: sounds good to me. i haven't dove into there. but taht sounds reasonble? Jan 10 03:21:34 destinal: that doesn't require changing files as root Jan 10 03:22:02 ali1, have you tried to remedy the fact that its trying to run in 640x480? Jan 10 03:22:17 timepants: oh yeah, i made a quick autoexec.cfg Jan 10 03:22:30 now its fits all distortedly onto the pre's screen Jan 10 03:22:35 oh i see Jan 10 03:22:46 i'll figure how to rotate it later Jan 10 03:22:52 i just want to see it working Jan 10 03:23:01 * rwhitby bbl - does ioquake3 build in cross-compile for anyone else? Jan 10 03:23:20 if you want to do the same thing, though, set r_mode to -1 then width/height to the appropriate values Jan 10 03:23:38 r_customwidth r_customheight to be precise Jan 10 03:23:55 rwhitby, yeah it worked perfectly for me Jan 10 03:24:01 the q3 demo .sh is broken in several places because standard unix utils have changed their syntax Jan 10 03:24:32 jacques, i trimmed the header off of it and extracted it as a tar.gz archive Jan 10 03:24:33 jacques: all you would need is just the pak0.pk3 Jan 10 03:24:56 I fixed it but then it complained about my system not supporting glibc2.1 and tried to remove everything it unpacked and failed because it didn't have write perms Jan 10 03:24:58 and update paks 1-8 which i think are redistributable Jan 10 03:25:03 ali1: yeah I got that Jan 10 03:25:25 I have q3 retail somewhere. just looked but can't find it. I have the metal box tho lol Jan 10 03:25:35 if q3 works you could package up urban terror and it would be a full game with content Jan 10 03:25:46 or free arena Jan 10 03:25:55 or port tremulous :D Jan 10 03:26:09 alien arena :-) Jan 10 03:26:25 * rwhitby wants super mario doom Jan 10 03:26:41 based on freedom/prboom Jan 10 03:26:45 * Robi_ duke nukem 3d Jan 10 03:26:49 sup sup? Jan 10 03:26:50 I want that port of doom where killing monsters killed processes on the unix system Jan 10 03:26:57 eieio: ioquake3 Jan 10 03:28:14 oh cool Jan 10 03:28:32 so are we getting rendered polygons in ioquake3 now? Jan 10 03:28:32 you got video of it running? Jan 10 03:28:46 last I heard it was black screen with sound Jan 10 03:29:15 yeah, it's a work in progress :-) Jan 10 03:29:21 but it does build ;-) Jan 10 03:29:59 rwhitby: ali1: fails to build because it doesn't -I /usr/local/include/SDL Jan 10 03:30:15 * jacques tries building ioquake3 (gotta dl it forst) Jan 10 03:30:17 destinal: you're getting the wrong sdl-config too Jan 10 03:30:45 destinal: doesn't work if you have SDL on host because sb2 is a little daft Jan 10 03:30:56 the palm app feeds update once a day... I sent a beta app to my phone and there was already an update for it Jan 10 03:31:01 ah Jan 10 03:31:09 but it downloaded the older version first.. they should fix that Jan 10 03:31:16 destinal: for some reason, /usr/bin/sdl-config is being found in path ahead of /usr/local/bin/sdl-config in sb2 Jan 10 03:31:21 OK it's compiling Jan 10 03:31:39 jacques: no polygons Jan 10 03:31:52 but it does render textures it loads when you get into a game Jan 10 03:32:08 rwhitby: yeah pretty standard path setup Jan 10 03:32:11 that's a clue even though i dunno what it means Jan 10 03:33:30 rwhitby: maybe there's a way to alter the path in sb2 Jan 10 03:33:44 destinal: PATH=.../ make ... Jan 10 03:33:57 well that of course Jan 10 03:34:11 maybe PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH Jan 10 03:34:14 still building... Jan 10 03:34:14 ok, I'm out Jan 10 03:34:17 * rwhitby bbl Jan 10 03:35:22 ali1: i am told they already did a maemo port for the n900, maybe that would be something to look at https://garage.maemo.org/projects/quake3/ Jan 10 03:36:26 no source listed there... hrm Jan 10 03:36:47 yep Jan 10 03:37:04 I think I found the source at one point, but it had problems and hadn't been updated since release (oct11?) Jan 10 03:37:23 ioquake3 built! Jan 10 03:37:56 but does it do anything ? Jan 10 03:38:08 anyone still reporting battery drain issues? Jan 10 03:38:51 bpadalino: I'm not oing to bother trying since it's known to not work - I just built it, didn't fix anything Jan 10 03:38:56 http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/ioquake3/1558-maemo2/ Jan 10 03:39:12 ah Jan 10 03:39:43 http://maemo.org/packages/view/ioquake3/ Jan 10 03:39:53 ali1, how did you get distorted graphics, i set custom video mode but its still blank Jan 10 03:40:06 timepants: minimize it Jan 10 03:40:21 we want the maemo5 Jan 10 03:40:23 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/ioquake3/1558-maemo5/ Jan 10 03:40:59 oh snap thats perfect Jan 10 03:41:01 i think Jan 10 03:41:13 it uses the same cortex-a8 Jan 10 03:41:18 so yeah I'd hope so Jan 10 03:41:25 and theres the source code Jan 10 03:41:31 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/i/ioquake3/ioquake3_1558-maemo5.tar.gz Jan 10 03:41:34 oh i don't think thats actually graphics, i just think thats junk in the framebuffer Jan 10 03:41:42 but i could be wrong Jan 10 03:42:00 timepants: oh me neither Jan 10 03:42:07 might as well not repeat the work if someone else done it Jan 10 03:42:12 timepants: i think its using the wrong buffer to display for some reason Jan 10 03:42:19 they said the guy who does that port idles in #ioquake3 Jan 10 03:42:22 but i'm gonna check out that source Jan 10 03:42:55 could diff it to see what changes they made Jan 10 03:43:08 ali1: yeah I know they got it working well enough to demo at their devel event in oct Jan 10 03:43:22 may not be playable, but it does show graphics Jan 10 03:44:00 ali1, this looks a lot like the problem i had earlier when i had my sdl flags wrong Jan 10 03:44:07 i got a bunch of garbage Jan 10 03:44:20 yup but i've set the major and minor flags Jan 10 03:44:31 maybe ioquake does something weird Jan 10 03:44:49 its interesting the intro movie works though Jan 10 03:45:33 playing a movie is the easy part heh Jan 10 03:47:14 sdl-cinema? Jan 10 03:47:24 xmbc uses sdl... hrmm Jan 10 03:47:36 anything other than NFSU currently use that? Jan 10 03:48:20 port boxee, better UI. Jan 10 03:49:41 if you could set up a source that transcodes the video for the pre format automatically, it would be cool to watch movies from the pre that are on your pc Jan 10 03:50:35 joshua: pre couldnt do that in real time Jan 10 03:51:00 win7 can technically do that. Jan 10 03:51:41 zsoc: the pc would transcode it Jan 10 03:52:02 joshua: ah, you did say source, i apologize :) Jan 10 03:52:02 it would scale it down Jan 10 03:52:31 like ps3 media center will transcode for the right formats for the ps3. Something like that Jan 10 03:53:00 yeah, there are various services/apps that can do that. Jan 10 03:53:15 hrm. Jan 10 03:53:21 they don't use SDL Jan 10 03:53:29 who? Jan 10 03:53:40 the n900 ioquake3 port Jan 10 03:54:03 ali1: straight gles ? Jan 10 03:54:12 egl, yeah Jan 10 03:54:18 n900 is x11 i thought Jan 10 03:54:22 and set it up on x11 Jan 10 03:54:23 yeah Jan 10 03:54:34 egl->sdl is about 1 step Jan 10 03:54:35 just set it up on SDL instead of X11 ... should be easy peasy Jan 10 03:54:51 I read the forum thread about their q3 port but I don't recall the details - maybe they say Jan 10 03:55:29 an SDL glimp was already set up though, but I could follow through their glimp and see whats up Jan 10 03:55:40 they don't happen to distribute a patch against stock source do they? Jan 10 03:56:13 what's a glimp? Jan 10 03:56:19 gl ... Jan 10 03:56:39 gl implementation? Jan 10 03:56:39 some GL imps that go in and make the code work Jan 10 03:56:47 lol Jan 10 03:56:55 it's quake3's way of supporting portability Jan 10 03:56:57 how coome we don't have any of those? Jan 10 03:57:34 one of my icculus.org dudes said this "on android -ffast-math with software floating point was a big issue" Jan 10 03:58:16 good thing the a8 has an fpu Jan 10 03:58:41 joshua: -ffast-math with soft ABI or with no FPU ? Jan 10 03:59:01 yep, we have a hardware FPU but are using the soft ABI Jan 10 03:59:21 I have an imp that makes my camera work. he just paints whatever he sees. Jan 10 03:59:52 that's who I'll blame when my pictures come out bad Jan 10 04:03:14 i guess I'll take their cue and write my own glimp Jan 10 04:03:31 * ali1 glimps all over this room Jan 10 04:05:02 ali1: can you tell if they are using gles1.1 or 2.0 ? Jan 10 04:07:01 jacques: 1.1 of course Jan 10 04:07:04 Hey all Jan 10 04:07:23 Question what is the default username and password for a palm pre Jan 10 04:07:32 the only q3a port that does straight up shader pipeline stuff is Xreal Jan 10 04:07:43 Major: none, you are root Jan 10 04:07:43 and thats way too difficult to port over to ES Jan 10 04:08:57 hmm i'm trying to ssh into my pre and it asks fr username and pass Jan 10 04:09:02 rwhitby: is there a 1.3.5.1 .sh installer yet? Jan 10 04:09:24 er for preware Jan 10 04:09:42 Major: the idea is you use root as the username and you generate a key authentication Jan 10 04:10:33 does anyone have the link he pasted earlier? Jan 10 04:11:04 Robi_: huh? Jan 10 04:11:15 Robi_: you just want to install preware/ipkgservice from terminal, right? Jan 10 04:11:21 the wget install link ya Jan 10 04:11:42 Robi_: http://bit.ly/dDEMO Jan 10 04:12:32 oh that's the file direct Jan 10 04:12:45 wget -O http://bit.ly/dDEMO ? Jan 10 04:13:09 cd tmp; wget http://bit.ly/dDEMO; sh dDEMO Jan 10 04:13:22 i suppose you could rename it or something fancy like that, doesn't matter tho Jan 10 04:13:35 s/cd tmp/cd \/tmp\/ Jan 10 04:13:40 do'h Jan 10 04:13:41 Wierd I put in root as user name and i get a error of No Support Authenication method avail Jan 10 04:14:05 Major: because it's not set up properly. Jan 10 04:14:14 ah Jan 10 04:15:08 sweer Jan 10 04:15:10 t Jan 10 04:16:13 bah the package mgr service gets an icon Jan 10 04:16:20 why is this so hard Jan 10 04:16:32 Robi_: nah it's cool, just restart luna Jan 10 04:16:34 pkill Luna Jan 10 04:16:37 i did Jan 10 04:16:47 well the script did Jan 10 04:16:51 ... Jan 10 04:16:52 perhaps not Jan 10 04:17:14 not re_scan_ Jan 10 04:18:08 so installing openssh from preware does it all now? Jan 10 04:20:05 zsoc userad doesn't work what is the command Jan 10 04:20:08 crap gotta make a frys run Jan 10 04:20:27 Major: adduser ? Jan 10 04:20:48 to create a new user Jan 10 04:20:57 ... Jan 10 04:21:09 yes Jan 10 04:21:25 it used to be useradd was it not? Jan 10 04:21:43 *nix doesn't usually _change_ in my limited experience Jan 10 04:22:02 Major: but apparently yes Jan 10 04:22:37 apparently adduser is a debian thing it seems Jan 10 04:22:50 Major: and i have learned something :) Jan 10 04:23:51 ahh, apparently adduser is "interactive user creation" Jan 10 04:24:37 hmm Jan 10 04:25:09 just need to find out how to add it so i can set this up properly Jan 10 04:25:17 Anyone have any suggestions for getting parameters from the webos environment into a native SDL application? Is there an easy widget / textbox library I can use? Jan 10 04:25:57 zonyl: apparently there is something called "PDL" but we haven't reverse engeineered the apis yet Jan 10 04:26:27 i would assume you use the json communication framework for that but i dunno if people got into that much around here Jan 10 04:26:27 sleep typing .. freaky Jan 10 04:26:51 at the very least you could use luna-send via exec Jan 10 04:26:52 bpadalino: dont joke, i used to MUD while asleep Jan 10 04:27:06 at least you didn't LARP while sleeping Jan 10 04:27:26 at least i didn't LARP, for any reason. Jan 10 04:27:40 LP ? Jan 10 04:27:41 ali1: That give me an idea. I wonder if I could shove parameters into the sqllite db from a MoJo app and read it from my app upon launch. Jan 10 04:27:42 :) Jan 10 04:27:44 ali1: NFS and X-Plane both link against liblunaservice Jan 10 04:27:58 s/NFS/NFSU/ Jan 10 04:28:21 zonyl: that's basically how we were intending to do prefs for webos wrappers using upstart to start the binary Jan 10 04:28:43 rwhitby: ioquake3 built fine for me Jan 10 04:28:56 Robi_: http://bit.ly/preware-boostrap works for all versions. Jan 10 04:29:27 rwhitby: whoops, i didn't realize that url, thank you :) Jan 10 04:30:27 maybe ill just try to code up a simple sdl textbox. All I really need is hostname and screen number. Jan 10 04:31:10 rwhitby: speaking of which, I have the code for the vncviewer that I would like to handoff to the wosi git. How do I go about getting it in there? Jan 10 04:31:16 Robi_: yep openssh all in preware now Jan 10 04:31:38 zonyl: you send me an ssh key Jan 10 04:32:49 man i love ioquake's makefile Jan 10 04:32:56 so easy to set up for new things Jan 10 04:42:36 "connect with your real username, in lowercase" when I use wirc only on gamesurge. Odd Jan 10 04:43:07 strange Jan 10 04:43:19 is that an ircd modification they are running ? Jan 10 04:43:28 rwhitby: do we have a standard way of adding shared libs to webos? Jan 10 04:43:37 completely possible Jan 10 04:45:05 so you're a big fan of wirc ? Jan 10 04:45:54 well, it doesn't work on one of the main servers I use Jan 10 04:46:10 so I can't really give a fair opinion Jan 10 04:46:41 well that stinks .. :( Jan 10 04:47:15 yay! I can get a black card to appear! Jan 10 04:47:29 yay Jan 10 04:47:53 of course, it's supposed to have stuff on it Jan 10 04:48:35 rwhitby: did you see the thread on precentral about the free NFS? I thought palm closed that loophole? Jan 10 04:48:35 maybe the lights are just off Jan 10 04:50:31 bpadalino: hmm, that would be best case Jan 10 04:50:31 cashen: Im a little shell shocked at that as well. I used to write shrink-wrapped software long ago and hated going on IRC finding my stuff up for DCC. Jan 10 04:50:40 jacques, what shared lib you need? Jan 10 04:51:02 cashen: that thread is hilarious Jan 10 04:51:11 Did anyone else notice the " 1167 ? 00:00:00 mobilehotspotd" Process running in the background of the pre? Jan 10 04:51:20 Did he really find a way to subvert payment... again Jan 10 04:51:21 ? Jan 10 04:51:26 IE Mobile Hotspot for the Verizon Pre? Jan 10 04:51:28 jacques: that's a good question. Jan 10 04:51:42 egaudet: no, it's just passing ipkgs around Jan 10 04:51:51 that's what I figured Jan 10 04:51:52 nothing new Jan 10 04:52:27 jacques: we can either put them all in a standard place, and --rpath to them in the exes Jan 10 04:52:50 Why don't we just static link Jan 10 04:53:11 egaudet: use up mem and flash when lots of packages use the same lib Jan 10 04:53:12 Well I guess when we have a lib that multiple games/apps want Jan 10 04:53:34 egaudet: libGLUES, but it turns out I accidentally linked it static Jan 10 04:53:48 libGLUES... what is this sounds like I WANT it Jan 10 04:54:04 jacques: it's not on the palm already? Jan 10 04:54:35 I am statically linking tcl in my attempting port of tux racer, I will change that to shared down the line as I'm sure others are going to need it Jan 10 04:54:40 rwhitby: I didn't think so ... Jan 10 04:54:52 no they don't have any glu stuff Jan 10 04:55:28 jacques, do you have a working build of GLUES ? Jan 10 04:56:08 egaudet: http://code.google.com/p/glues/ Jan 10 04:56:18 egaudet: I have a build of GLUES. Jan 10 04:56:38 jacques: we should postinst install them in /usr/local/lib on the device Jan 10 04:56:39 working? unknown Jan 10 04:56:48 jacques: then they match the staging in sb2 Jan 10 04:57:12 rwhitby: yeah I like that .. where is that partition-wise ? Jan 10 04:57:38 jacques: we can do the same as optware-bootstrap Jan 10 04:57:46 rwhitby: hmm, that's in rootfs - woule be better to have a symlink to var ? Jan 10 04:57:52 jacques: it'll be in /usr partition Jan 10 04:58:04 jacques: bind mount from /var, just like /opt Jan 10 04:58:41 rwhitby: bind mount /usr/local - not /usr/local/lib right? Jan 10 04:59:18 might be a need for /usr/local/share .. maybe some other dirs Jan 10 04:59:26 libexec Jan 10 05:01:04 jacques: what gave you a black card? was it one of these glues sdltests files ? Jan 10 05:01:37 bpadalino: I'm trying to port the glues tests from here: http://embedded.org.ua/opengles/lessons.html Jan 10 05:02:12 specifically the cylinder test (that probably isn't that relevant) Jan 10 05:02:13 egaudet was saying that you need to set the major and minor number for which GLES you're using .. Jan 10 05:02:18 and make it 1.1 instead of 2.0 Jan 10 05:02:30 and that may be more helpful Jan 10 05:02:37 yeah I am trying to hack together those tests and the spinning cube of dom Jan 10 05:02:52 I have the 1.1 init in Jan 10 05:03:01 ah Jan 10 05:03:21 I can get the same text output as the cube - OpenGL ES-CM 1.1, Extensions, etc Jan 10 05:03:35 but no cylinders Jan 10 05:03:48 rawr Jan 10 05:03:53 pheer the cylinders Jan 10 05:04:19 after cylinders, I'm going to do spheres :-P Jan 10 05:04:45 the pre's gonna get some balls ? Jan 10 05:04:59 my pre has balls of steel Jan 10 05:05:01 like duke Jan 10 05:05:29 mipmapped balls Jan 10 05:05:47 jacques, it mentions SDL 1.3 (Pre using SDL 1.2) Jan 10 05:09:38 jacques: yeah, bind mount /usr/local from /var/local or something unused Jan 10 05:10:43 rwhitby: OK I like that Jan 10 05:11:02 egaudet: right, that's what makes this more than a straight compile / run Jan 10 05:11:24 egaudet: I'm trying to back-port to SDL 1.2 Jan 10 05:12:01 YES!!!!!! Jan 10 05:12:04 jacques: we may need the 2GB /var partition after all, hey? Jan 10 05:12:06 HOLY MOLY Jan 10 05:12:16 it .. um .. works. Jan 10 05:12:22 jacques: repo please Jan 10 05:12:32 congrats Jan 10 05:12:36 apparently SDL_GL_SwapBuffers() is not optional :-) Jan 10 05:12:39 haha Jan 10 05:12:43 indeed Jan 10 05:12:49 awesome job! Jan 10 05:12:53 I reckon it's time to start getting this stuff working on the emulator too Jan 10 05:12:59 I wish I could screenshot this easily Jan 10 05:13:09 lol wirc is laggy when that app is running Jan 10 05:13:14 that's crazy talk rwhitby Jan 10 05:13:25 egaudet: libSDL is there Jan 10 05:13:57 jacques: fbcat Jan 10 05:13:58 OK I can die happy now. or at least go take a shower which I have been neglecting in my obsession Jan 10 05:14:14 SDL only stuff? Jan 10 05:14:20 jacques: repo first Jan 10 05:14:29 repo before shower? Jan 10 05:14:36 but there's libs involved Jan 10 05:14:49 it won't be a trivial commit Jan 10 05:15:12 * jacques hears the whip cracking sound. Jan 10 05:15:44 oh I forgot, there's not a dynamic lib involved nm Jan 10 05:16:30 jacques: too many accidents happen in showers. Jan 10 05:16:45 lol Jan 10 05:17:10 probably worse than buses Jan 10 05:17:17 many people die in showers Jan 10 05:17:24 ok but at midnight I really need to take a shower and go to the grocery store Jan 10 05:17:47 this Cohens guy is the need for speed free thread is having a field day with the troll feeders :-) Jan 10 05:18:01 haha, jacques - that is hilarious Jan 10 05:18:15 BTW it looks exactly like this http://embedded.org.ua/opengles/glu_cylinder.png except squashed and animated Jan 10 05:19:03 jacques: got any ideas on how to get ordering of staging in the cross-compile repo? Jan 10 05:19:42 maybe a DEPENDS=lib1 lib2 and make stage does those first Jan 10 05:19:55 yeah, that will do for a start Jan 10 05:20:34 we don't have any dep functionality in cross-compile now? Jan 10 05:20:44 yeah we're gonna need that Jan 10 05:21:49 I recall it just needed to be maintained by the submitters in nslu2 build Jan 10 05:22:58 rwhitby: glues should have its own repo ? Jan 10 05:23:18 maybe we need a graphics category ... or libs ... Jan 10 05:24:05 ok we have libraries - it goes there ? Jan 10 05:24:37 jacques: does it need a repo, or does it just get built in cross-compile from upstream repo? Jan 10 05:25:52 well, it's very minor patches to the actual glues lib so far Jan 10 05:26:17 jacques: so a patch during build Jan 10 05:26:23 I am using upstream svn because it's much more advanced than the 1.4 release Jan 10 05:27:13 rwhitby: OK let me work on a patched build from upstream svn in cross-compile Jan 10 05:27:46 jacques: staging deps support pushed - see libsdl-image - DEPS = lib1 lib2 lib3 Jan 10 05:28:23 great, because I need that for GLUES Jan 10 05:28:36 jacques: pushed now Jan 10 05:28:54 jacques: DEPENDS = lib1 lib2 lib3 Jan 10 05:29:04 lib1, lib2, lib3 and directory names under packages Jan 10 05:29:14 make stage gets run in depends dirs first Jan 10 05:29:42 now I should be able to get sdl-mixer back in for egaudet Jan 10 05:29:52 rwhitby: does palm include SDL in latest emulator image? Jan 10 05:30:43 destinal: yes Jan 10 05:31:00 actually, let me see if I have the latest Jan 10 05:32:04 yep, I have the latest Jan 10 05:32:20 haven't tried to run anything yet Jan 10 05:32:44 rwhitby, whenever I try to run it configure fails because gcc--specs doesn't have a space Jan 10 05:34:20 I forgot to check, does Preware have more than 2500 packages today? Jan 10 05:39:18 ok ... back, let me see how much I can get done in the next 45 mins or so before I have to hit the sack Jan 10 05:40:36 rwhitby: we don't have a SRC_SVN in support/download.mk ? Jan 10 05:44:03 jacques: guess not - see if there's one in preware/build.git to copy Jan 10 05:44:16 rwhitby: so based on the oe tree, I have to name the packages eina_svn, eet_svn etc? Jan 10 05:46:07 http://www.gamedevradio.net/?p=109 Jan 10 05:46:15 xcomp: just eina and eet will do Jan 10 05:46:24 errr? palm-emulator requires i _downgrade_ vbox? Jan 10 05:46:25 the _svn is just the version Jan 10 05:46:38 destinal: it works for .12 for me Jan 10 05:46:49 oh ok...then everything looks standard then Jan 10 05:47:22 destinal: but don't go 3.1.x Jan 10 05:48:36 rwhitby: no SRC_SVN in preware/build.git - working around it for now ... Jan 10 05:49:01 I ran 3.1.2 on windows in previous sdk's and it was fine, not sure why current production releases would be unhappy... Jan 10 05:49:16 but it has a check so I guess I'll downgrade Jan 10 05:50:38 rwhitby: after extracting the packages, how to specify configure options? Jan 10 05:51:07 maybe the newest sdk is more particular due to opengl stuff (we can hope they managed to get some kind of opengl emulation or passthrough working though I kind of doubt it) Jan 10 05:52:02 I wouldn't be surprised if non-GL SDL apps work fine thouh Jan 10 05:52:05 though Jan 10 05:52:23 also I need to stage includes for libpng12 and libjpeg62 Jan 10 05:52:39 those currently aren't present in the default stage Jan 10 05:52:56 rwhitby: "svn diff" makes a usable patch ? Jan 10 05:53:07 jacques: usually does... Jan 10 05:53:10 it would be good to stage more SDL stuff Jan 10 05:53:17 xcomp: ok, so we need to add them to packages/.... Jan 10 05:53:34 SDL_image for one Jan 10 05:53:45 yeah, SDL includes too Jan 10 05:53:48 but basically any of the SDL_* libs palm has Jan 10 05:53:53 and their includes Jan 10 05:54:01 destinal: sdl-image is there now Jan 10 05:54:18 hmm, maybe it didn't used to be? Jan 10 05:54:26 correct Jan 10 05:54:35 working on sdl-mixer and deps now Jan 10 05:55:26 uh.. root on the emulator doesn't allow login with null password anymore? Jan 10 05:56:51 oh, maybe I'm wrong, nevermind Jan 10 05:56:55 user error Jan 10 05:57:48 napp, pdl, sdl all in place Jan 10 05:58:10 I'm adding new DEPENDS lines all over the place Jan 10 05:58:24 rwhitby is a DEPENDS machine Jan 10 05:59:21 egaudet: mixer is building for me now Jan 10 05:59:38 oh, hang on, that's freetype Jan 10 05:59:40 heh, there's an opengles package but it's empty Jan 10 05:59:44 not up to mixer yet Jan 10 05:59:47 obviously there just to satisfy deps Jan 10 06:00:25 hmm... I think I started building a little too early Jan 10 06:00:31 can we just stage every lib on the pre in a prestage make target Jan 10 06:00:47 and then the stages that need something special (like includes) can do that in the stage target Jan 10 06:00:51 i'll wait until everything is staged and then package Jan 10 06:01:39 prestage: cp -a /doctor/usr/lib/lib* staging/armv7/lib/ Jan 10 06:02:10 egaudet: we need headers too Jan 10 06:02:20 yea that can be done the same as we are doing now Jan 10 06:02:25 grettings from my pr Jan 10 06:02:27 pre Jan 10 06:03:04 but instead of adding each lib individually as we come accross it, just start with all the libs we get form stock doctor. And then all the make targets can overwrite any libs they need to build and add headers Jan 10 06:03:18 rwhitby anything new? Jan 10 06:03:20 oh, we never overwrite any libs Jan 10 06:03:23 I see no reason not to Jan 10 06:03:30 the making is just to extract the proper includes Jan 10 06:03:34 sportman: always. app catalog in preware is new. Jan 10 06:03:34 right Jan 10 06:03:55 There are many libs we will need without headers as well Jan 10 06:04:12 app catelog in preware? what do you mean just new apps on there? Jan 10 06:04:26 instead of one dir/Makefile for everything we come accross individually just start with all the libs from the doctor, I don't understand why not Jan 10 06:05:19 this staging stuff is for things we CAN'T get directly off the pre/doctor Jan 10 06:05:49 rwhitby: when you do the make, are you making all, or make install-hdrs only? Jan 10 06:05:51 egaudet: cause we need headers for stuff in the doctor too Jan 10 06:05:54 and by "staging stuff" I mean the current setup of packages//Makefile those are only needed when we can't get it right off the Pre Jan 10 06:05:56 agreed... to be honest all we just need is install the headers Jan 10 06:06:02 rwhitby, how does my idea stop that? Jan 10 06:06:05 we shouldn't need to build the libs Jan 10 06:06:09 you START with all libs, and then ADD includes Jan 10 06:06:12 egaudet: we need one dir per package for that Jan 10 06:06:25 rwhitby, per package that has a header we need Jan 10 06:06:38 it makes no sense to me to have a dir per package that is just "copy lib from doctor" with nothing else Jan 10 06:06:55 egaudet: it does if someone in the future needs to add headers to it Jan 10 06:07:07 rwhitby: woot, I have DOOM running in the emulator! Jan 10 06:07:08 rwhitby, at THAT point you can create a makefile for it... Jan 10 06:07:22 there is absolutely nothing that having all the libs from the start hurts or slows down Jan 10 06:07:24 it only helps Jan 10 06:08:19 I had to ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb1 Jan 10 06:08:33 but other than that it worked exactly like a pre Jan 10 06:08:54 egaudet: agreed. but if you do it that way you don't learn or document the dependencies Jan 10 06:09:16 why do we need/care about them? Jan 10 06:09:18 (which may or may not be important I guess) Jan 10 06:09:33 more information is never a bad thing Jan 10 06:09:52 but i agree we shouldn't be making things that we don't need .. :( Jan 10 06:10:01 well the tradeoff is that we keep coming accross new libs we need and then have to go add a Makefile Jan 10 06:10:27 kind of some mild redraw issues Jan 10 06:10:31 egaudet: I think that's a good thing. Jan 10 06:10:52 cause then we don't just link against things magically without understanding what they are used for Jan 10 06:11:16 that does not prevent any "magical" linking Jan 10 06:11:40 rwhitby: do we want to bother with x86 ipk's for our SDL apps / games that don't link to the GL libs? Jan 10 06:11:40 if you manually link against a lib and don't know why... well whether it exists or not doesn't matter Jan 10 06:12:42 egaudet: but if it already exists, you don't get a trigger to learn about it Jan 10 06:13:04 destinal: we probably don't for GL, but we do for lots of other stuff Jan 10 06:13:12 (like openvpn testing for instance) Jan 10 06:13:15 I agree that a build system doesn't need to build things that don't get used or already exist Jan 10 06:13:19 egaudet: libsdl-mixer staged Jan 10 06:13:22 rwhitby, fine but if we are expecting others to use this stuff, most won't care about that like we do Jan 10 06:13:38 so we should have at least a rule that you can run manually (make all-libs) or something Jan 10 06:13:46 egaudet: agreed. Jan 10 06:14:10 convenience for porting, but not for autobuilding Jan 10 06:14:32 destinal, it's not "building", it's copying Jan 10 06:15:01 egaudet: BTW, notice that some Makefiles that just stage libraries also have to add missing symlinks Jan 10 06:15:03 egaudet: oh, Jan 10 06:15:13 missing symlinks? Jan 10 06:15:17 egaudet: well I actually like having a lot of libs copied out there Jan 10 06:15:35 you never know when you might want to build something by hand Jan 10 06:15:39 destinal, copied out where? Jan 10 06:15:45 staging dir Jan 10 06:15:48 rwhitby, cp -a takes care of symlinks Jan 10 06:15:50 egaudet: yes, missing symlinks in the palm lib dir Jan 10 06:16:02 destinal, I want EVERYTHING copied out there was my argument/point Jan 10 06:16:12 egaudet: cool, I totally agree Jan 10 06:16:54 we should get all the includes for everything too Jan 10 06:16:58 egaudet: there are symlinks that are required for linking against a lib at build time, but not required for linking at run time (since the version is encoded into the binary), and those are missing from the palm rootfs, but we need them in staging Jan 10 06:18:06 I just think the cross-compile environment / PDK is the wrong -place- for learning what libs need what and being alerted to new libs we didn't look at yet Jan 10 06:18:16 so a simple copy from the doctor will not pick up those Jan 10 06:18:57 rwhitby, those fall under "special" and will need rules I agree Jan 10 06:19:02 (but a convenience target for copying everything that is there is fine with me - just don't make any other targets depend on it Jan 10 06:20:36 egaudet: pushed deps for libsdl-mixer staging - let me know if it compiles for you now Jan 10 06:23:14 do I need sb2-init before making? Jan 10 06:23:47 should only need to do that once per user per machine Jan 10 06:24:15 my make failed Jan 10 06:24:46 mine just succeeded from scratch, so let's see what's different Jan 10 06:24:58 rwhitby: heh, we could go crazy and wrap qemu-arm around some non-GL catalog SDL apps (if such things exist) :) Jan 10 06:25:10 checking for SDL - version >= 1.2.10... no Jan 10 06:25:27 from libsdl-image Jan 10 06:25:40 (I think) Jan 10 06:25:43 it probably needs --with-sdl-prefix=/usr/local Jan 10 06:26:18 or similar Jan 10 06:26:34 configure:20834: gcc -o conftest -g -O2 -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT conftest.c -L/usr/lib -lSDL >&5 Jan 10 06:26:34 conftest.c:23:17: error: SDL.h: No such file or directory Jan 10 06:26:51 egaudet: do you have the latest git pull Jan 10 06:27:01 yes Jan 10 06:27:18 cause libsdl-image/Makefile has a depends on libsdl now Jan 10 06:27:26 did you clobber first? Jan 10 06:27:34 no Jan 10 06:28:44 anything new Jan 10 06:29:39 xcomp: now, that libs do you need staged, and do you need headers? Jan 10 06:31:08 ali1: we can build and run SDL apps in the emulator (no GL though) Jan 10 06:31:16 I got DOOM running :) Jan 10 06:31:42 ok I know that's not very exciting Jan 10 06:31:46 yeah, need headers for SDL, libjpeg62, libpng12 Jan 10 06:31:53 that's cool. do you just need a GL driver for virtualbox or something? Jan 10 06:32:10 xcomp: SDL headers are there Jan 10 06:32:25 libsdl-image ends up failing for me as well .. Jan 10 06:32:28 let me find out why Jan 10 06:32:37 ali1: Palm doesn't include any GL support at all. we may be able to hack it it virtualbox supports passthrough or emulation Jan 10 06:32:45 btw, I need to retract on my previous statement about GL support Jan 10 06:32:51 non-GL games like the first doom and quake ports will run though Jan 10 06:33:07 the GLES support in evas is currently X11 only (ostensibly for maemo) Jan 10 06:33:35 i'm guessing it would not be difficult to create a gles_sdl engine Jan 10 06:33:38 based on that Jan 10 06:33:40 xcomp: well that should be fairly easily modified yeah Jan 10 06:34:30 and yes, it is GLES2 :) Jan 10 06:34:40 configure:20656: checking for SDL - version >= 1.2.10 Jan 10 06:34:41 configure:20753: gcc -o conftest -g -O2 -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT conftest.c -L/usr/lib -lSDL > Jan 10 06:34:44 &5 Jan 10 06:34:46 conftest.c:25:17: error: SDL.h: No such file or directory Jan 10 06:34:53 for some reason it's totally looking in the wrong spot Jan 10 06:35:00 is this all because it's running the wrong sdl-config? Jan 10 06:35:11 most likely Jan 10 06:35:16 or it doesn't have the right configure flag Jan 10 06:35:20 it should be running /usr/local/bin/sdl-config, no? Jan 10 06:36:22 lots of these too Jan 10 06:36:24 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc: couldn't run '/home/bpadalino/work/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnu Jan 10 06:36:25 eabi-gcc--specs=/usr/share/scratchbox2/modeconf/gcc-specs.simple': No such file or directory Jan 10 06:36:49 I saw that once Jan 10 06:36:56 cant' remember what it was, but something wasn't set up right Jan 10 06:37:17 you might want to look at your scratchbox2 setup again Jan 10 06:38:03 bpadalino: are you running on a ubuntu server or ubuntu desktop? Jan 10 06:38:17 i believe server Jan 10 06:39:52 dpkg -l | grep sdl ? Jan 10 06:40:11 in sb2 or in my normal shell ? Jan 10 06:41:23 the --specs thing that I was talking about earlier Jan 10 06:42:01 bpadalino: normal shell Jan 10 06:42:17 rwhitby: it's there in a normal shell Jan 10 06:42:32 1.2-dev Jan 10 06:42:34 rwhitby: oh one more thing ... we need to have sdl.pc in the pkgconfig directory, or otherwise we'll have to set SDL_CFLAGS and SDL_LIBS to get configures to find it Jan 10 06:42:49 efl libraries depend heavily on pkg-config Jan 10 06:43:01 xcomp: sdl-config is not good enough? Jan 10 06:43:29 rwhitby: it may not be all the libs, but I believe I had to do that for evas Jan 10 06:43:59 the script just calls pkg-config to check if it's there Jan 10 06:44:56 rwhitby: seems like configure it using sdl-config from /usr/bin and not /usr/local/bin .. Jan 10 06:45:03 which is getting the includes incorrect Jan 10 06:45:40 bpadalino: it should *definitely* be using /usr/local/bin/sdl-config Jan 10 06:45:52 xcomp: jpeg is staged Jan 10 06:45:59 excellente Jan 10 06:46:06 we need /usr/local/bon before /usr/bin in $PATH ? Jan 10 06:46:36 configure:20616: checking for sdl-config Jan 10 06:46:36 configure:20634: found /usr/bin/sdl-config Jan 10 06:46:40 looks like it Jan 10 06:46:52 oh, it is Jan 10 06:47:29 we could set --exec-prefix=/usr/local when we call configure Jan 10 06:48:45 or maybe SDL_CONFIG ? Jan 10 06:50:44 hello every one Jan 10 06:51:11 bpadalino, exec-prefix is configure specific Jan 10 06:51:13 yeah, libsdl-image needs configure SDL_CONFIG=/usr/local/bin/sdl-config Jan 10 06:51:15 not everyone uses it Jan 10 06:52:17 can someone help me with a pre that won't turn on i need to try tge last resort to try & fix but i don't know anything about linux Jan 10 06:52:29 same with the mixer .. and i believe that will fix at least some of these issues Jan 10 06:55:33 rwhitby, any reason not to "make install" for freetype build? Jan 10 06:56:01 just want the headers, don't we ? Jan 10 06:56:05 egaudet: it will overwrite libraries Jan 10 06:56:10 k Jan 10 06:57:33 xcomp: libpng12 staged Jan 10 06:58:05 xcomp: is the thing you are building in cross-compile/nonworking/.. ? Jan 10 06:58:33 rwhitby: yeah, that's where you said to put it Jan 10 06:58:48 because of the libtool issue Jan 10 06:58:50 bpadalino: we need to know why /usr/local/bin/sdl-config is not being found first Jan 10 06:59:07 because i think autotools looks in exec-prefix first Jan 10 06:59:13 although I think that's a global issue that just shows up on my machine because I happen to have libtool 2.2.x Jan 10 07:00:34 xcomp: what are you compiling again? Jan 10 07:00:48 eina, eet, evas and ecore Jan 10 07:00:51 from svn Jan 10 07:01:21 rwhitby: this is why it's happening . from the libsdl-image configure script Jan 10 07:01:28 if test "x$prefix" != xNONE; then Jan 10 07:01:29 PATH="$prefix/bin:$prefix/usr/bin:$PATH" Jan 10 07:01:31 fi Jan 10 07:01:36 i need help compiling omap3_usbload Jan 10 07:01:53 they override /usr/local/bin being before /usr/bin it seems Jan 10 07:02:16 bpadalino: ah, ok. Jan 10 07:02:29 so you have to explicitly define --prefix Jan 10 07:02:31 so we want prefix=/usr/local then Jan 10 07:02:35 best way to override it is to define SDL_CONFIG on the configure line Jan 10 07:02:39 /usr/local/bin isn't before /usr/bin anyway Jan 10 07:02:41 no - just point to the right SDL_CONFIG Jan 10 07:02:50 I think we want prefix=/usr/local anyway Jan 10 07:02:52 ./configure SDL_CONFIG=/usr/local/bin/sdl-config Jan 10 07:03:55 so which do we use everywhere, SDL_CONFIG or --prefix? Jan 10 07:03:56 i am not sure .. /usr/include points to the right stuff Jan 10 07:04:10 i'd say SDL_CONFIG and you just need it for libsdl-mixer and libsdl-image Jan 10 07:04:11 --prefix is just for install Jan 10 07:04:26 that's my vote at least Jan 10 07:04:33 also we should have /usr/local/bin before /usr/bin Jan 10 07:04:39 egaudet: we do Jan 10 07:04:59 oh maybe not once inside of sb2 Jan 10 07:05:20 well why does which sdl-config point to /usr/bin/ Jan 10 07:05:34 egaudet: because their configure script overrides the path Jan 10 07:05:41 [SB2 mapping-armv7 armv7] egaudet@egaudet-ubuntu ~ $ echo $PATH Jan 10 07:05:53 /sb2/wrappers:/sb2/scripts:/home/egaudet/.scratchbox2/armv7/bin:/usr/bin:/home/egaudet/bin:/ Jan 10 07:06:00 see /usr/bin right there Jan 10 07:06:29 which sdl-config in sb2 env I was talking about from command line Jan 10 07:06:41 oh Jan 10 07:06:42 we need /usr/local/bin before /usr/bin but that's not how sb2 currently set up Jan 10 07:09:53 yeah, i am not sure how to pass that to sb2 Jan 10 07:12:37 ok this sucks Jan 10 07:12:53 installed openssh via preware and can't ssh in, no supported auth methods Jan 10 07:13:59 alright, bed for me .. good luck guys Jan 10 07:14:06 Robi_: did you copy your public key across? Jan 10 07:14:21 no i want to do user auth Jan 10 07:14:23 egaudet: did sdl-mixer finally work for you? Jan 10 07:14:35 Robi_: openssh in preware specifically says it does ssh keys only Jan 10 07:14:44 bah Jan 10 07:15:17 (by default, feel free to edit the upstart script to reduce your own security in any way you please) Jan 10 07:15:31 i gotta log in first Jan 10 07:15:48 Terminal Jan 10 07:15:51 or novaterm Jan 10 07:15:59 or webos quick install command line Jan 10 07:16:20 rwhitby, it's not going to work unless and until we have /usr/local/bin before /usr/bin Jan 10 07:16:39 egaudet: any idea how to do that? Jan 10 07:16:43 not yet Jan 10 07:16:46 is it in var? Jan 10 07:16:54 Robi_: what? Jan 10 07:17:03 ssh.conf Jan 10 07:17:14 not in / Jan 10 07:17:18 Robi_: /etc/event.d/mobi.optware.openssh Jan 10 07:17:31 oh i wouldn't have looked there Jan 10 07:17:57 rwhitby, I guess we can PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH ./configure ? Jan 10 07:18:10 hm there's a mobilehotspotd in there Jan 10 07:19:11 egaudet: yep, we can do that Jan 10 07:19:41 Robi_: yoy might want to add that path to the instructions at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH for the next person Jan 10 07:19:53 egaudet: are you going to add those then? Jan 10 07:22:17 rwhitby, can I assume ${SB2} is only used to run commands Jan 10 07:22:29 i.e. put the PATH= as part of SB2 Jan 10 07:23:08 I guess that probably won't work Jan 10 07:24:55 rwhitby: k Jan 10 07:25:39 rwhitby: should static libs be built? I was thinking maybe no to save space Jan 10 07:26:16 xcomp: no reason to build them Jan 10 07:26:32 I certainly won't package them Jan 10 07:26:58 * rwhitby bbl (dinner) Jan 10 07:27:23 rwhitby: is that the inetd now ? Jan 10 07:29:35 how do I get event.d to reread the script? Jan 10 07:36:20 rwhitby: eet has support for openssl and gnutls. not required but might be useful to have that support in there Jan 10 07:37:29 rwhitby, what does putting commands in ( ) in the Makefile do? Jan 10 07:37:36 heading to bed...will complete build tomorrow Jan 10 07:47:02 rwhitby, i dunno if you got that earlier but the feeds work as sugested after the update via bootstram Jan 10 07:47:05 strap* Jan 10 07:49:31 rwhitby, fixed libsdl-image, libsdl-mixer and added freetype headers Jan 10 07:52:33 done eating. going back to working on ligGLUES auto-build Jan 10 07:53:14 oh heck yes Jan 10 07:53:18 install patches without confirmation Jan 10 07:53:19 <3 Jan 10 07:56:56 hrm, wonder what the Palm Beta and Palm Web feeds are Jan 10 07:57:43 note to self, downloading from Palm Web locks up my phone O_o Jan 10 07:59:51 jacques: oh nice that was on my port list. that'll be rather useful :D Jan 10 08:02:10 uhhh Jan 10 08:02:11 hmm Jan 10 08:02:17 i think i found the problem? Jan 10 08:02:33 theres a glDrawBuffer command Jan 10 08:02:49 quake3 using it to draw to its back and front buffers Jan 10 08:02:58 then you swap and its a new frame! Jan 10 08:03:01 WELL Jan 10 08:03:04 THE PROBLEM Jan 10 08:03:16 nanoWrap defines glDrawBuffer as Jan 10 08:03:17 nothing. Jan 10 08:03:20 ali1: oh? Jan 10 08:03:23 * ali1 shoots self Jan 10 08:03:55 ali1: o_O oh ioq3 doesn't use sdl's swapbuffers? Jan 10 08:04:02 it does Jan 10 08:04:31 wait does ES even need DrawBuffers? Jan 10 08:04:48 let me look into it again Jan 10 08:04:54 i'm jumping to conclusions maybe Jan 10 08:05:13 wait Jan 10 08:05:23 quake3 is getting ported now? Jan 10 08:05:27 nuts. Jan 10 09:10:50 so palm provided SDL based of 1.2 but from this interview with Sam Latinga he says 1.3 has the added OpenGL ES support for platforms like the iPhone Jan 10 09:18:51 1.3 isn't released yet Jan 10 09:19:36 just came out it sounds like Jan 10 09:20:03 probably after they had the last update all lined up Jan 10 09:20:39 http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.tar.gz Jan 10 09:21:35 sounds like games will only run better in the future then once this new code is stable Jan 10 09:24:36 so how easy do you think it was for EA to port the games to webos? Do you think its easy enough that a lot of others will do the same? Jan 10 09:25:30 if they already had it on the iphone, its probably not that much different. Similar processor, similar libraries Jan 10 09:26:30 i don't know of any of the game developers that had 3D titles out that didn't already have iphone titles. Jan 10 09:26:56 I think we will see a lot of iphone ports Jan 10 09:27:16 I'm down with that as long as its not super obvious.. like console ports to PC Jan 10 09:27:31 as long as the developers think there is enough of a market Jan 10 09:49:35 Whats the latest on sdlterm? Jan 10 09:49:57 did puff get anywhere with fbterm or rxvt? Jan 10 10:04:16 dang maemo has xterm? Jan 10 10:05:41 doesnt it have x11? heh Jan 10 10:06:35 dtzWill: i win. Jan 10 10:08:59 ali1, .... report :) please Jan 10 10:10:40 ali1: :D Jan 10 10:10:45 ali1: what was it? Jan 10 10:10:53 ali1: was it the drawbuffers stuff? Jan 10 10:11:39 to be honest i do not know Jan 10 10:12:01 ali1: oh haha. but.. it works? what'd you do?! :D Jan 10 10:12:43 i've applied changes from the mameo port, some conversion of immediate drawing to drawing arrays, and used their quasi nanoGL thing they had going on Jan 10 10:14:01 ali1: very nice. i was doing the same with the symbian port of q2, but i ported almost everything and still didn't get anythning haha. but i haven't looked at that for some time Jan 10 10:14:43 i feel bad because i couldn't find out what was wrong though :( Jan 10 10:15:31 ali1: haha. well i'll take a look since i'm curious. Jan 10 10:15:35 ali1: how's it play? :D Jan 10 10:15:41 terribly Jan 10 10:15:43 ali1: ---i mean performance Jan 10 10:15:44 ali1: :( Jan 10 10:15:51 oh that i'm not sure yet Jan 10 10:16:04 when i loaded the level i fell through the floor Jan 10 10:16:17 theres timedemo 1 or whatever it was to benchmark Jan 10 10:16:19 i think i know why though Jan 10 10:16:26 oh Jan 10 10:16:27 cg_drawfps or something to show fps... its been a while Jan 10 10:16:28 how do i run that? Jan 10 10:16:34 okay i'll push my nanoGL fix Jan 10 10:16:38 in the console if you can get to it. lol Jan 10 10:16:39 it'll fix broken quads Jan 10 10:16:46 or +set cg_drawfps Jan 10 10:16:49 err Jan 10 10:17:04 ali1: +set cg_drawfps 1 Jan 10 10:17:08 ali1: from the command line Jan 10 10:17:44 So does webosinternals ever sleep? Jan 10 10:18:41 the sun never sets on the webosinternals empire Jan 10 10:26:23 ehhh Jan 10 10:26:29 it looks pretty messed up Jan 10 10:26:43 i even copied over the sources from the mameo port to make sure Jan 10 10:27:01 hmm Jan 10 10:28:21 ali1: push them and i'll add my nanoGL fix Jan 10 10:28:31 yawn Jan 10 10:28:34 sup? Jan 10 10:28:35 the only one that i think fixes a rendering glitch as opposed to making it better Jan 10 10:28:38 i'm not using nanoGL :( Jan 10 10:29:19 this is basically the mameo port Jan 10 10:29:20 ali1: ....oh. haha. well hmm. well lemme know when you push something, maybe i can help figure it out. Jan 10 10:29:39 spent a lot of time last few days learning opengl/es/es2/etc and porting between them, so hopefully that paid off hehe Jan 10 10:30:09 alright, one sec Jan 10 10:34:11 ali1: CONGRATS btw if i didn't already say that hewhe Jan 10 10:34:19 s/hewhe/hehe/ Jan 10 10:34:19 dtzWill meant: ali1: CONGRATS btw if i didn't already say that hehe Jan 10 10:35:36 ali1, good work dude! you and dtzWill are becoming porting kings Jan 10 10:43:37 dtzWill: its up Jan 10 10:43:45 i put the rest of the mameo stuff in there Jan 10 10:43:49 ali1: great Jan 10 10:47:15 ali1: it cna't find SDL--i'm using sb2. i can fix it, easy cflags fix, but is there a preferred way to do this, etc? i know you guys were spending some time on that Jan 10 10:47:53 is your host a desktop? Jan 10 10:48:15 sb2 will confuse itself with the host's SDL for some reason Jan 10 10:48:35 ali1: yes, and i don't see uninstalling SDL as an option :$ Jan 10 10:48:48 they're trying to figure it out Jan 10 10:48:55 ali1: okay np if it's just me then i'll just make it work for me, wanted to make sure there's nothing else i was supposed to do Jan 10 10:48:56 its a weird sb2 thing Jan 10 10:49:09 ali1: gotcha. thanks :) Jan 10 10:49:15 no prob Jan 10 10:51:13 ali1: ditto for it needing -lpalmvibe, etc? Jan 10 10:51:28 palmvibe? Jan 10 10:51:38 i don't think it needs it Jan 10 10:51:46 unless palm SDL needs it.. Jan 10 10:51:50 * ali1 shrugs Jan 10 10:52:20 well my SDL/GLES needs them. okay no worries, i'm trying to figure out this PDK so i can eventually stage my stuff for others... Jan 10 10:52:23 ali1: thanks Jan 10 10:52:36 no prob Jan 10 10:54:29 ali1: i think i have a dated stage; i haven't rebuilt in a very long time. so nevermind me, i'll blame it on that for now Jan 10 10:54:47 heh okay Jan 10 10:56:05 * dtzWill copies over his retail pak's Jan 10 10:56:24 (should have started that before i started getting it building hehe) Jan 10 11:01:23 * Jack87__ cant beat hot car Jan 10 11:08:59 ali1: so it's using a bytecode interpreter--is geting a bytecode compiler possible? Jan 10 11:09:22 dtzWill: for the game code? Jan 10 11:09:30 you can force it to use the native code Jan 10 11:10:10 +set sv_pure 0 +set vm_cgame 0 +set vm_game 0 +set vm_ui 0 Jan 10 11:10:15 tag that to the command line Jan 10 11:12:20 ali1: okay, sorry Jan 10 11:12:35 (i saw that in the readme, but didn't know why) Jan 10 11:13:48 i wonder if nanoGL would've been better Jan 10 11:14:07 i'm gonna have to try to get that working Jan 10 11:27:08 sleep Jan 10 11:30:51 kk, cya ali1. gj :) Jan 10 13:16:48 i see quake 3 on the git and im not gonna lie im pretty excited :D Jan 10 13:36:23 hello Jan 10 13:55:03 hi! how can I remove a marker? I can't remove it dragging out, or push orange button & click Jan 10 13:55:39 hello? Jan 10 14:57:28 brr .. cold this morning Jan 10 15:04:40 just installed preware on 1.3.5.1 Jan 10 15:04:41 shit owns Jan 10 15:06:20 consider donating if you have the extra cash Jan 10 15:06:31 probably a good idea :) Jan 10 15:06:36 :) Jan 10 15:07:40 i have a feeling the pixi plus might be the next developer phone rwhitby might have to purchase so there are both armv6 and armv7 targets locally to him Jan 10 15:08:01 i wish the pre plus was on sprint Jan 10 15:08:25 they get me to switch to sprint (from att) to get the pre, and make the next phone exclusively for another carrier? that's a little screwed up, imo Jan 10 15:10:27 exclusivity is never forever - i am sure something better will be available when it's time for you to upgrade :) Jan 10 15:11:02 the pre is still a mighty fine machine, and the plus is only a slight hardware bump - nothing too major Jan 10 15:11:13 yeah Jan 10 15:11:18 i know this isn't the wirc channel, but.... Jan 10 15:11:26 is there a way to make it not have each channel in a seperate card? Jan 10 15:11:50 i don't see an option Jan 10 15:11:58 i am not sure - i don't use wirc .. but i think PuffTheMagic would know Jan 10 15:12:08 or maybe oil? i am not sure :( Jan 10 15:12:16 i connect to a bnc, with twenty different channels open Jan 10 15:12:28 and another bnc, with 5 more. i don't want a thousand cards open at once :) Jan 10 15:13:11 that is a lot of channels! Jan 10 15:13:21 yeah Jan 10 15:13:28 i'm a serious ircer, lol Jan 10 15:13:32 :) Jan 10 15:14:12 :) Jan 10 15:14:34 rwhitby: the preware feed "Webos-patches" 's url is wrong for 1.2.0 rom, it should be 1.2 not 1.2.0 Jan 10 15:18:51 hmm I Woke up twice in front of my computer last night with my code open. I was sleep coding apparently, and I got alot done. Jan 10 15:20:24 watch out for conditionals which test against vikings and unicorns .. Jan 10 15:20:28 it's bitten me in the ass a few times Jan 10 15:20:39 insomnicoding Jan 10 15:20:43 yeah I'm looking over the code Jan 10 15:20:48 and some of it doesnt make any sense at all Jan 10 15:20:49 lol Jan 10 15:22:08 because now you're not a genius any more. Too bad you're about to delete the insights of the ages :) Jan 10 15:37:15 so what's the policy on pushing new packages into cross-compile? Jan 10 15:37:41 something i'm playing with needs SDL_gfx for example, so i set that all up, potentially useful :) Jan 10 15:39:54 hi Jan 10 15:40:22 sup MetaView Jan 10 15:40:57 I hope the pats lose by 20 today Jan 10 15:42:28 current Preware app seems to have issues when altering scripts? The requester (yes, no..) doesn't pop up Jan 10 15:46:52 is there a list of the most popular homebrew apps? Jan 10 15:47:21 precentral.net Jan 10 15:47:50 thanks Jan 10 15:49:13 danger1: thats a good question. I was wondering if Preware was going show download counts, ratings, reviews, etc. I did not notice it on the feature roadmap for new versions but i might have missed it. Jan 10 15:49:24 dtzWill: i think rwhitby was saying there is a dependency list now with the makefiles to get them to build in the correct order .. and if you set it up similarly to how rwhitby has them, but maybe with a different target .. extralibs or something so you know you are building something other than what is stock on the pre ? Jan 10 15:50:50 might be best to wait for rod and figure out how to setup the includes and lib storage for those 'extras' Jan 10 15:51:28 bpadalino: sounds good. yeah noticed the dependency. good call about extralibs. i'll bring it up when he's back and we'll make it happen. Jan 10 15:51:36 people should have to apply for a license to leaves reviews for app catalog apps. Jan 10 15:51:42 bpadalino: yeah, i'll just bug him later... lots of design going into making it right, and there's no hury Jan 10 15:51:46 s/hury/hurry/ Jan 10 15:51:47 dtzWill meant: bpadalino: yeah, i'll just bug him later... lots of design going into making it right, and there's no hurry Jan 10 15:52:05 dtzWill: whatcha workin on? Jan 10 15:52:08 yeah - haste makes waste .. i'd definitely say mull it over, and maybe write up a proposal of what you think should be done .. Jan 10 15:52:10 zsoc: hahhaha. there are lots of things that should be .. 'privileged' actions. Jan 10 15:52:28 zsoc: i'll let you know when it works. Jan 10 15:52:42 dtzWill what's new? Whatcha working on? Jan 10 15:52:51 dtzWill: lulz, as long as you promise to get it working ;) Jan 10 15:52:57 aww there's no quake entry on p|c's homebrew list. am i supposed to create that? figured it would be populated from preware... oh well. Jan 10 15:53:04 zsoc: i'm fairly certain i will Jan 10 15:53:34 zsoc, Rick_work got a few projects. generally working to get q2/q3 working with gl/es support so we can have gpu-powered quake goodness. Jan 10 15:53:41 dtzWill: oh wow, you're going to tred through the flaming troll jungle that is p|c? Jan 10 15:54:02 wtf, they removed the free NFS thread. I loved my last post! ygh' Jan 10 15:54:14 dtzWill: more power to you bro lol Jan 10 15:54:16 zsoc: i just wanted to know how many people downloaded it and found it useful--but if it's not integrated with preware than nevermind Jan 10 15:55:00 zsoc, Rick_work also i'm making good progress on visualboyadvance--almost done adding opengl support so we get 'free' (since emulation doens't use the gpu for jack) post-processsing effects, and maybe faster blitting/overlay rendering Jan 10 15:55:13 zsoc, Rick_work and a mystery project. haha apparently i'm all over the place Jan 10 15:55:56 dtzWill: technically I believe emulators render textures on an opengl primitive, if I understand the concept :) Jan 10 15:56:05 cashen: lol @ your ongoing tale of the NFS free thread. :D. Jan 10 15:56:12 you're doing too many things tho lol Jan 10 15:56:41 I had asked it be removed 3 days ago Jan 10 15:56:46 zsoc: kinda am. the q3 is really ali1's work so far, and q2 i haven't touched in a few days... i'll come back to it later. Jan 10 15:56:49 * zsoc smacks his own hand, 'lol' is not punctuation! Jan 10 15:57:02 zsoc: rofl Jan 10 15:57:25 Well I can't wait to see your 'sekrat project' Jan 10 15:57:25 ENTER on the other hand, is punctuation Jan 10 15:57:36 it is a more full and complete stop than a mere period. Jan 10 15:57:38 dtzWill: you were following that? i was loving it! Jan 10 15:57:52 Rick-home: try putting up with that in a room with 800 people ;) Jan 10 15:58:32 cashen: not at all, only through your comments here :). Jan 10 15:59:15 dtzWill lol Jan 10 15:59:44 cashen: lol Jan 10 16:00:20 xD Jan 10 16:00:26 as oil would say Jan 10 16:00:48 zsoc, in a room with 800 people it's still find if there are only 3 or 4 TALKING. Jan 10 16:01:25 otoh, I don't participate in rooms with more than 8 or 9 talking at once, I get confused... Jan 10 16:01:37 Rick-home: ok rick. your ideals are better than mine :p :D Jan 10 16:02:41 bah, this stage thing is great until it completely doesn't work. like many automated systems :( Jan 10 16:03:05 dtzWill nodnodnod Jan 10 16:03:17 thus the intention _soon_ to move to real plugins. Jan 10 16:03:21 instead of auto-stages. Jan 10 16:03:58 Rick_work: ? you mean apps that integrate with mojo directly? using w/e interface the existing apps are using? Jan 10 16:04:11 Rick_work: don't we still have the problem of building the bugger? :) sorry not sure i understand what you're suggesting Jan 10 16:04:54 dtzWill consider, if you will, flash. Flash is put into a page useing an embed command. __SOON_ the type:game thing will go the hell away. it's a huge security hole Jan 10 16:05:15 instead, the reason they are CALLING it a PLUGIN DEVELOPERS KIT is that we will be EMBEDDING binary apps INSIDE mojo pages. Jan 10 16:05:31 and the embed will sandbox the binary Jan 10 16:06:03 they can still be full screen (see for example, terminal) but that doesn't mean that they'l be given free run of the OS. Jan 10 16:06:05 dtzWill, quake 3? Jan 10 16:06:07 :D Jan 10 16:06:09 the phone NEEDS a sandbox. Jan 10 16:06:35 the type:binary was a way to get an announcement out at CES, not a final solution Jan 10 16:06:40 type:game Jan 10 16:06:50 doohan: a)credit is largely due to ali1, don't mean to steal his glory. b)no idea how long it will be until a release. that established...... q3?!?! :D:D:D:D hehe Jan 10 16:07:42 Either way it's sounding good :) Jan 10 16:07:51 Rick_work: hmm. you're absolutely right, particularly from a security standpoint. but i guess i'm a little sad to admit that, simply because it's type:binary that makes some of what we're doing possible Jan 10 16:07:54 it's at least a great learning experience Jan 10 16:08:05 Can't wait for the networking stuff too Jan 10 16:08:06 hi Jan 10 16:08:14 q3 dm would rock. Jan 10 16:09:02 dtzWill according to unnamed sources at palm, there's absolutely no reason the stuff we're doing now won't work. Jan 10 16:09:27 We just have to use a wrapper to call them inside the sandbox. so that they play nice in the filesystem. Jan 10 16:09:53 howabout threewave ctf? Jan 10 16:09:55 it's not the idea that we can't run openglez sdl apps but that they have to PLAY NICE in the filesystem Jan 10 16:10:23 and the sandbox will ensure that, and avoid binary apps carrying along stuff that overwrites the kernal and so forth. Jan 10 16:10:32 Rick_work: well than i'm am one ridiculously happy camper. i don't have a lot of experience with palm, but... they're doing well so far from my viewpoint :D Jan 10 16:10:45 Rick_work: absolutely understood, and that's reasonable and flexible. Jan 10 16:10:48 Rick-home: why? the games that were relased in the app catalog don't 'play' any nicer that I can tell... well except visually. Jan 10 16:11:01 Rick_work: yeah it boggles the mind taht right now lots of people download things and run it as root........ haha :). Jan 10 16:11:25 sshhhhh, don't let people know Jan 10 16:11:35 dtzWill: open source ftw Jan 10 16:11:48 zsoc -- that's the point Jan 10 16:12:15 zsoc it is a security NIGHTMARE and Brian signed off on it under the strict understanding that it would GO AWAY as soon as possible. Jan 10 16:12:29 I see Jan 10 16:12:44 Rick_work yeah i'm a little surprised (*knocks on wood*) that this hasn't been exploited already Jan 10 16:12:49 but really, running quake INSIDE a plugin should just be a call, it's just that the call will instantiate a sandbox that then runs the app. Jan 10 16:13:07 so 1.4 should see the Go Away-ness ? Jan 10 16:13:16 dtzWill You do know that there are palm binarys out there that have not been posted to any feed we read? Jan 10 16:13:24 someone has lemmings running. Jan 10 16:13:37 Rick-home: wait, but that means I/o functions won't work Jan 10 16:13:51 Rick_work: yep yep, and that also would be *awesome*. i did a lot of stuff with apple/iphone and .... hot damn this is so much better. Jan 10 16:13:58 Rick_work: that was perhaps naive of me to assume haha :) Jan 10 16:14:03 zsoc: no Jan 10 16:14:08 zsoc it does NOT mean that. It means that the i/o functions will be filtered Jan 10 16:14:11 zsoc: it just means they're monitored/controled in any number of ways Jan 10 16:14:12 Rick-home: wait what? why would people do things without finding us? :p Jan 10 16:14:22 zsoc - because they're idiots Jan 10 16:14:22 ick, controled Jan 10 16:14:35 zsoc: i thought it was YOUR job to tell me about all programs every written/executed on the pre?! >:O Jan 10 16:14:35 zsoc -- IT"S A FREAKING TELEPHONE -- get over it. Jan 10 16:15:09 zsoc: haha sorry typos happen :). i hope you'll be okay. :D Jan 10 16:15:10 Rick-home: what do you mean by... telephone. Jan 10 16:15:33 zsoc they have to. Now, note that this does NOT mean that you can not use OUR uppstart service to run anything you want. THe point being that the ROLE of webos-internals and precentral does NOT GO AWAY Jan 10 16:15:51 there's a line -- palm knows full well that wherever they draw the line, that some people will cross it. Jan 10 16:16:04 Rick-home: I get it now. sandbox works well for official apps. Jan 10 16:16:20 who cares if the role goes away Jan 10 16:16:24 it's OUR role to make crossing the line a) as easy as possible and b) that the outside of the line is not the wild west, and is "sort of reasonably safe. Jan 10 16:16:37 who cares if it's safe or not? Jan 10 16:17:02 Rick-home: the only thing outside of 'reasonably safe' these days is mytether Jan 10 16:17:19 danger1 I do. Rod does, most of us do. We want to ensure that if someone is downloading an app that turns your phone into a server for russian child porn, there's a good chance that you know that you're doing it. Jan 10 16:17:23 i'm a little surprised there isn't massive pre piracy, iphone style Jan 10 16:17:26 danger1: anger is your middle name Jan 10 16:17:26 nothing stopping it Jan 10 16:17:28 not taht i am for it Jan 10 16:17:30 *that Jan 10 16:17:41 i love russian child porn Jan 10 16:17:43 hook me up Jan 10 16:17:50 zsoc -- even mytether comes in under the heading of "reasonably" safe in that its not like we haven't TOLD anyone it's undsafe -- use at your own risk. Jan 10 16:18:11 well we _try_ to tell them Jan 10 16:18:22 what's sprint going to do? kill my account? Jan 10 16:18:28 i'll run over to verizon and the the plus, fuck them Jan 10 16:18:41 danger1 -- there isn't massive privacy because from day one, the largest group of developers took the stand that we respect intellectual property. Jan 10 16:18:58 danger1: i think if you are caught with child porn you have more to worry about then what your phone provider thinks of it.... Jan 10 16:19:01 danger1 you know what sprint's position is about open-source and homebrew development? Jan 10 16:19:08 i don't care, rick Jan 10 16:19:14 i really don't give a fuck what they think Jan 10 16:19:18 if it's positive or not Jan 10 16:19:18 haha Jan 10 16:19:26 you are so punk rock Jan 10 16:19:32 lol Jan 10 16:19:36 rick is known for being an uptight jackass, incase anyone is new here Jan 10 16:19:41 smug, superior prick Jan 10 16:19:46 ahhh -- well then you're a very odd duck sir. Jan 10 16:19:54 so sez some mouthy dude Jan 10 16:19:55 sitting in his mothers basement, running slackware Jan 10 16:20:02 hehehehe.... Jan 10 16:20:16 2 crt monitors, cans of mt. dew Jan 10 16:20:17 Rick-home: for one, I think you're pretty smug ;) lol jk we love you Jan 10 16:20:43 danger1: are you always this aggressive? haha Jan 10 16:20:46 danger1: are you sure you're not DarthPooh? Jan 10 16:20:47 only to rick Jan 10 16:20:52 i'm MTW Jan 10 16:21:06 doesn't ring a bell Jan 10 16:21:10 MTW: if thats a joke it's lost on me, sorry Jan 10 16:21:12 i'm not here often Jan 10 16:21:22 whoever resorts to personal attacks is automatically wrong Jan 10 16:21:31 I don't suppose you've accomplished anything besides trolling around these parts? Jan 10 16:21:37 not in this scene Jan 10 16:21:55 There's a simple solution, that's why I use an IRC client that lets me block people Jan 10 16:22:01 don't worry, i'm no one important here. attack at will Jan 10 16:22:03 KEYofR: oh yeah? well I have a hat made from an eagle, your argument is invalid Jan 10 16:22:04 Rick_work: anyway, thanks for the info. i'm rather excited to see where all this goes Jan 10 16:22:07 dtzWill: how does Q3 run? Does it run as well as Q1? Jan 10 16:22:11 MTW: don't attack me :( Jan 10 16:22:13 MTW: :P Jan 10 16:22:15 :) Jan 10 16:22:20 Rick-home: you always have the best solutions :p Jan 10 16:22:30 if only there was a solution to rick Jan 10 16:22:53 and, at absolute worst, I can go work on my writing. :-) I do have clients that PAY to listen to me. :-) Jan 10 16:23:04 you guys scared raster off. what if i need some opengl help! >:O Jan 10 16:23:07 no one pays to listen to you Jan 10 16:23:13 your mother does not pay, at least not directly Jan 10 16:23:24 mtw - click Jan 10 16:23:41 Rick_work: what do you do? Jan 10 16:23:42 oh god, am i meant to be afraid of your empty "i'll ignore youuuuu" threats? Jan 10 16:24:09 I'd pay not to hear danger at least all ive seen since I set aside usefule work for a few minutes. Jan 10 16:24:23 want my paypal? Jan 10 16:24:31 would it work? Jan 10 16:24:42 no, probably not Jan 10 16:25:12 wait, the word of a dude that thinks calling some other dude names isn't exactly worth much Jan 10 16:25:24 I don't think I've seen rod ban anyone yet. Jan 10 16:25:33 er Jan 10 16:25:55 wait, the word of a dude that thinks calling some other dude names is a valid debat technique isn't exactly worth much Jan 10 16:25:56 i would like to think that this channel isn't ran that way Jan 10 16:26:01 banning people for not liking others Jan 10 16:26:05 MTW: you don't like Rick, granted, but with him now ignoring you, no real reason to go on is there? Jan 10 16:26:12 i'm not going on. Jan 10 16:26:15 go on being rude that is Jan 10 16:26:29 so Jan 10 16:26:32 what's everyone up to Jan 10 16:26:35 glad to see 3d is up on the pre Jan 10 16:26:41 well, hardware acceleration Jan 10 16:26:57 and smooth as abwlls Jan 10 16:27:13 s/abwlls/bawlls/ Jan 10 16:27:14 AnOutsider meant: and smooth as bawlls Jan 10 16:27:15 i haven't installed any of the apps yet Jan 10 16:27:21 all i run in terms of homebrew is the irc client Jan 10 16:27:36 and maybe 3 official apps, none games Jan 10 16:27:38 so yeah Jan 10 16:27:42 but its nice that its working Jan 10 16:27:43 well Need 4 Speed, Glyder 2, Asphalt etc Jan 10 16:27:55 pricey, but work well Jan 10 16:27:58 the pre needs some kind of nethack game like http://slashem.sourceforge.net/ Jan 10 16:28:15 Glyder2 is pretty cheap Jan 10 16:28:18 not a big fan of nethack myself Jan 10 16:28:21 dtzWill, have you seen how q3 runs? Is it smooth? low fps? Jan 10 16:28:29 Glyder is hard as heck to control. I gave up Jan 10 16:28:32 i'd like quake 3, if there was some way to control it Jan 10 16:28:37 can't really play that without a mouse Jan 10 16:28:38 lol Jan 10 16:28:47 haha, I got used to it Jan 10 16:28:50 well a finger works just as well Jan 10 16:29:13 no where near as well Jan 10 16:29:17 cant see myself strafe jumping :P Jan 10 16:29:18 doohan: it's a work in progress. judging from how it works on other devices it should be great, but we're not there yet. Jan 10 16:29:40 MTW: try preware quake, works decently well Jan 10 16:29:49 Sounds good dtzWill Jan 10 16:30:02 MTW, GreedyB but not i don't think you'll be playing in any tournaments with that any time soon :). q3 on pre i mean haha Jan 10 16:30:15 quake 1 may work well Jan 10 16:30:18 wow Jan 10 16:30:20 quake 3 is a whole different world Jan 10 16:30:22 in terms of control Jan 10 16:30:29 hehe still cool though Jan 10 16:30:32 yeah Jan 10 16:30:36 people named with the yellow font in wIRC = brutal Jan 10 16:30:37 maybe a q3pre tournament Jan 10 16:30:50 i wonder if they have handheld gaming devices q3 tournament Jan 10 16:30:52 s Jan 10 16:30:59 you need way better precision aiming with q3 Jan 10 16:31:34 you need a mouse, and a good one at that Jan 10 16:31:38 we need some tuxracer Jan 10 16:31:40 anyone here use ares to develop? Jan 10 16:31:45 quake 3 360 is a mess as well Jan 10 16:32:01 if its impossible to play on the 360 in terms of control, i can't imagine no sticks is anywhere close to playable Jan 10 16:32:17 I installed supertux thinking it was tuxracer Jan 10 16:32:21 lol Jan 10 16:32:33 GreedyB: lose Jan 10 16:32:42 yeah :( Jan 10 16:34:01 shooters that were designed for consoles then ported to pc might be a better option to pursue Jan 10 16:34:12 since they were designed for sticks Jan 10 16:34:18 keep in mind we need the source Jan 10 16:34:28 i can't think of any classic console shooters that are open source Jan 10 16:34:42 right Jan 10 16:35:14 quake 3 was so pc centric in terms of control that it was ported to the 360, works perfectly, etc....but was canceled due to it being a mess in terms of control. i got a build right here Jan 10 16:35:23 it's a challenge to hit someone Jan 10 16:37:30 if i was doing the q3 port to pre, i wouldn't even add in control support Jan 10 16:37:35 it's more of a technical showcase than a game Jan 10 16:38:07 have it auto run the demo or osomething Jan 10 16:38:22 true but you know there will be some people griping for support Jan 10 16:38:44 Q3 was on the Dreamcast as well, but you don't hear much about that. Jan 10 16:38:52 UT was ported to the Dreamcast, and it was actually rather good Jan 10 16:38:52 because it was unplayable? Jan 10 16:39:08 i loved the dreamcast Jan 10 16:39:16 oh yeah UT Jan 10 16:39:27 geist, you're up early .. or up really late Jan 10 16:39:30 mmmm, dreamcast Jan 10 16:39:34 UT had the same controls as Q3 essentially, and yet there was no problems playing that on a console Jan 10 16:39:39 yeah, up at lake tahoe Jan 10 16:39:40 this might be cool on the pre, even has network play http://armagetronad.net/ Jan 10 16:39:50 getting up early, going to hit the slopes at Kirkwood in a few minutes Jan 10 16:39:53 just drinkin my coffee Jan 10 16:40:00 ah, nice - enjoy the slopes .. avoid those trees Jan 10 16:40:01 and call of duty has way more controls than Q3 did, so I don't see why it wouldn't be acceptable on the 360 Jan 10 16:40:21 I've installed a webosdoct patch to reduce my minimum brightness and now I can't change my brightness :( any help? Jan 10 16:40:41 its not the amount of controls Jan 10 16:40:44 quake is built around a mouse Jan 10 16:40:48 call of duty is not. Jan 10 16:40:51 it's that simple/ Jan 10 16:41:01 that really doesn't make any sense Jan 10 16:41:11 like the chewbacca defense ? Jan 10 16:41:15 go play it Jan 10 16:41:17 come on over Jan 10 16:41:22 call of duty was originally using the q3 engine and on PC I thought? Jan 10 16:41:26 i have it running on a box right now Jan 10 16:41:38 call of duty was made for PC first, MTW Jan 10 16:41:50 no shit, retard Jan 10 16:41:53 the current ones are not Jan 10 16:41:58 console ports. Jan 10 16:42:00 from console, to pc Jan 10 16:42:11 they develop them in tandem Jan 10 16:42:13 so in other words, it's not an issue with Q3, it's an issue with how terribly they ported it Jan 10 16:42:22 there is no issue with the port. Jan 10 16:42:26 then there's no problem Jan 10 16:42:29 the game is a twitch fps Jan 10 16:42:31 the original call of duty also had crap controls Jan 10 16:42:33 the 360 can not do twitch fps Jan 10 16:42:42 two sticks do not equal one mouse. Jan 10 16:42:42 it took them like several versions before they got it right on the consoles Jan 10 16:42:57 if all the other players are on the same playing field, it doesn't have to be "twitch" controls Jan 10 16:43:01 what the possibilities of a BT controller? Jan 10 16:43:06 and you can do VERY fast movement with a joystick as well, MTW Jan 10 16:43:11 if its not twitch its not quake Jan 10 16:43:14 you can't rocket jump Jan 10 16:43:16 its impossible Jan 10 16:43:17 * CoolMatty facepalms Jan 10 16:43:34 its fucking IMPOSSIBLE. Jan 10 16:43:48 if q3 works then we could build a package with any of the total conversions and bundle it as a whole game with the data Jan 10 16:44:03 unless they ported it to make the joystick unable to look down, I don't see how you can't rocket jump Jan 10 16:44:15 ... Jan 10 16:44:16 just add a rocket jump button. heh Jan 10 16:44:27 coolmatty is so ignorant he has no idea what i'm talking about Jan 10 16:44:27 nevermind Jan 10 16:44:28 macros Jan 10 16:44:45 no, it seems more to me that you completely underestimate the abilities of good console gamers Jan 10 16:44:56 added to ignore, bye cool Jan 10 16:45:07 wow, that's mature. Jan 10 16:45:17 whoa, what just happened? Jan 10 16:45:25 i must have missed tsomething Jan 10 16:45:26 MTW got in a fit because someone told him he was wrong. Jan 10 16:45:27 cool doesn't understand how you play quake Jan 10 16:45:39 point and shoot? Jan 10 16:45:57 James bond with death matches Jan 10 16:45:58 MTW thinks you can't play quake 3 on the console because it's "twitch" and therefor impossible to do without a mouse Jan 10 16:46:07 ...yeah, this is constructiv Jan 10 16:46:17 the thing cool doesn't get is that i have a copy of it and have thoughts based off the software Jan 10 16:46:24 cool has a idea based around software he has not used Jan 10 16:46:42 * CoolMatty wonders if MTW actually ignored him Jan 10 16:46:47 guys - topic. pretty please. if people want to port quake 3, that's their business. Jan 10 16:46:53 primarly because he is unable to use it, as he not only does not have it, but couldn't run it on his retail 360 if he wanted to Jan 10 16:47:17 sure think rick, his arguments aren't going anywhere anyway :p Jan 10 16:47:34 MTW: you could have to get creative and change the software to meet the hardware. which is what i think coolMatty was trying to do Jan 10 16:47:40 can we go back to how to program the phone? Please.... Jan 10 16:47:40 so uh, i already figured this out, forget, and then just spent 20 minutes scratching my head: sb2 needs the *full* path to the mapping file Jan 10 16:47:45 how do you change quake so it's not a twiched based fps Jan 10 16:47:55 what does it become when i can't rocket my way across the map? Jan 10 16:47:58 it's no longer quake Jan 10 16:47:59 but yeah Jan 10 16:48:01 back to topic Jan 10 16:48:01 else it gets grumpy and gives some worthless error Jan 10 16:48:02 Rick_work: which phone? Jan 10 16:48:14 yeah. differences of opinion are ok, personal attacks aren't. Jan 10 16:48:20 yes it does dtzWill. Jan 10 16:48:46 Rick_work: :). i knew i hit that before, but i needed to start over and .. whoops. hehe Jan 10 16:49:02 dtzWill did you fail to install using the script? Jan 10 16:49:57 Rick_work: fail to install? wha? as far as i know nothing failed; ... do you mean did the makefile fail? (sorry, not sure what script :)) Jan 10 16:50:42 dtzWill if you had to re-start, I wondered if you used the PDK post on the wiki to re-install sb2 or if you did it by hand. Jan 10 16:51:03 someone ban coolmatty. he is getting around my ignore list by ctcp messaging me Jan 10 16:51:06 that's not acceptable. Jan 10 16:51:25 Rick_work: oh i just nuked things, 'make stage', and the sb2-init thing from the wiki. pretty much what the wiki says. Jan 10 16:51:26 i try to take the mature route and ignore the problem and he goes after me with ctcp spam? uncalled for. Jan 10 16:51:49 good lord Jan 10 16:51:53 Rick_work: although it didn't fix it, my staged compiler can't find libraries that clearly exist (-L, etc paths are correct AFAICT). frustrating. Jan 10 16:51:57 children on irc these days Jan 10 16:51:57 christ Jan 10 16:52:07 ld, don't make me strace you Jan 10 16:52:08 MTW: complain to a freenode operator Jan 10 16:52:13 know any? Jan 10 16:52:16 got some nicks? Jan 10 16:52:20 bbl Jan 10 16:52:20 try #freenode Jan 10 16:52:22 check the motd Jan 10 16:52:27 thanks zsoc Jan 10 16:52:33 try lilo, i hear he is cool Jan 10 16:52:55 yeah a channel ban won't stop ctcp Jan 10 16:53:07 that's network ause Jan 10 16:53:10 abuse Jan 10 16:53:11 (he actually didn't have me on ignore, and I wasn't spamming him, fyi). Anyway, is there someone actually trying to port Q3 or was that just a random thought? Jan 10 16:53:50 somebody was, i think its worth it just to show how powerful the pre is if it can be done Jan 10 16:54:04 and then build tremulous Jan 10 16:54:19 absolutely, but instead of q3 it should be Jedi Outcast! lawl Jan 10 16:54:38 besides, who is to say we won't get mouse support? Jan 10 16:54:49 heh Jan 10 16:54:51 just need the bluetooth drivers Jan 10 16:54:54 yeah Jan 10 16:54:56 speaking of mouse support Jan 10 16:54:58 and that looks doable Jan 10 16:55:02 we need to get synergy on it :D Jan 10 16:55:04 if you have a mouse connected you might as well be playing on a computer anyway Jan 10 16:55:09 ^^^ Jan 10 16:55:22 joshua don't CARRY a computer everywhere.... Jan 10 16:55:27 ‰ Jan 10 16:55:27 except I can't fit one in my pocket Jan 10 16:55:34 tons of people use bluetooth keyboards at least Jan 10 16:55:43 just carry a mouse around with your phone. heh Jan 10 16:55:55 there are small ones Jan 10 16:56:10 some kind of tilt sensor movement control would be cool Jan 10 16:56:51 CoolMatty: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=games/ioquake3.git;a=summary Jan 10 16:56:58 but you can't package up the data files really so its going to require bring your own pk3 Jan 10 16:57:37 but something like urban terror or tremulous might be different Jan 10 16:57:45 or... Jan 10 16:57:48 ignore the license Jan 10 16:57:50 that's what i do Jan 10 16:58:09 punch in the cdkey as validation or something, if you even want to bother with that Jan 10 16:59:03 _you_ can ignore licensing, we can't, we're distributing this Jan 10 16:59:24 grow some balls Jan 10 16:59:32 id isn't going to sue, and even if they do, who cares? Jan 10 16:59:55 id might not, but activision or whatever would Jan 10 16:59:59 heh Jan 10 17:01:00 MTW: first of all, id is already suing an apple developer Jan 10 17:01:26 secondly, we respect all license rights in this channel Jan 10 17:01:33 oh yeah? Jan 10 17:01:36 you may, but i don't. Jan 10 17:01:40 nothing you say will change that Jan 10 17:01:45 i almost forgot about this game http://www.frozen-bubble.org/ Jan 10 17:01:48 lol Jan 10 17:01:50 Then port it yourself and have a ball. Jan 10 17:01:54 that's ok, like I said, you're welcome to Jan 10 17:02:02 anyone know offhand why my toolchain decided that libraries have to end in '.a' not '.so'? Jan 10 17:02:09 joshua: is that just a linux bubble bobble? Jan 10 17:02:18 frozen bubble uses perl Jan 10 17:02:56 CoolMatty: yeah puzzle bobble/Bust-a-Move clone Jan 10 17:03:03 nice Jan 10 17:03:11 mtw: we aren't going to publicly break the law just because they may not care enough to enforce it Jan 10 17:03:26 joshua: WE NEED THAT Jan 10 17:03:39 we're not a warez group Jan 10 17:03:48 warez :heart: Jan 10 17:04:09 i think frozen bubble could be made in the js/css/html arena as a standard app .. Jan 10 17:04:15 no need for the native stuff Jan 10 17:04:20 dtzWill: er.. is it trying to _build_ those libraries? Jan 10 17:05:41 zsoc: no i'm a dumbass and i should get some sleep haha. Jan 10 17:05:42 :) Jan 10 17:05:47 there was no need for tetris to be native either, but there it is Jan 10 17:05:54 (and oddly for the same price as teh JS version) Jan 10 17:06:11 dtzWill: lol you are definitely not dumb, but sleep is always good Jan 10 17:06:43 bpadalino: yeah, wouldn't need 3D or anything... in fact theres a web version for iphone already http://glenn.sanson.free.fr/iphone/ Jan 10 17:07:13 nice Jan 10 17:07:17 yeah when stuff can be mojo, it's a good thing Jan 10 17:07:42 even though I'm not that great at web dev Jan 10 17:08:18 loading that url on my pre, wanna see how it plays Jan 10 17:08:44 doing it here as well Jan 10 17:08:50 hey it works! Jan 10 17:09:02 and plays smooth Jan 10 17:09:23 screen size is a little off but other than that, good port Jan 10 17:09:27 add it to the bookmarks Jan 10 17:09:37 it's hard to get accurate with this though Jan 10 17:09:40 you know Jan 10 17:09:47 how do you control it? heh Jan 10 17:09:49 there are few things i like more in life than violating the GPL Jan 10 17:10:01 click in the grey bar area above the pointer, joshua Jan 10 17:10:20 oh i see that semicircle... i missed that Jan 10 17:11:53 now I'm getting an issue on level 2 Jan 10 17:11:58 keeps saying "can't connect" Jan 10 17:12:06 the full version is better with controls and sound etc anyway. heh Jan 10 17:12:11 same here Jan 10 17:13:06 keeps resetting. heh Jan 10 17:13:25 the pre's webkit doesn't have safari's compiling js engine does it? Jan 10 17:13:39 chrome's Jan 10 17:13:43 v8 Jan 10 17:13:49 CoolMatty no, it has chrome's compiling js engine, which is faster Jan 10 17:13:56 oh, but it has one Jan 10 17:14:11 I thought originally it didn't, and that was a potential source of speed improvements for the device Jan 10 17:14:21 nope V8 since day one Jan 10 17:14:29 bummer haha Jan 10 17:14:41 probably would be no webos without v8 Jan 10 17:14:50 no kidding Jan 10 17:16:04 part of the reason I hope palm starts doing better with gpl, they benefit from it, but it's meant to go both ways Jan 10 17:16:36 s/it/open source in general/ Jan 10 17:16:36 destinal-wirc meant: part of the reason I hope palm starts doing better wopen source in generalh gpl, they benefit from it, but it's meant to go both ways Jan 10 17:17:01 doh never sed before coffee Jan 10 17:17:06 haha Jan 10 17:17:28 stupid question: does it only replace the first found match? Jan 10 17:17:48 since webos-internals and the SLUG project are so closely related, we got good news on the SLUG front yesterday By the way.... Jan 10 17:17:52 - /g would have done it globally Jan 10 17:17:59 We found a slug replacement. Jan 10 17:18:00 k :p Jan 10 17:18:13 slug? Jan 10 17:18:46 http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/ Jan 10 17:19:02 rwhitby's first big open source success. Jan 10 17:19:18 webos-internals has been running on nslug's server Jan 10 17:19:22 ah Jan 10 17:19:34 so what's the slug replacement? Jan 10 17:21:42 (it's a big secret!) :p Jan 10 17:22:39 iomega iconnect $99 3 usb ports, 1 ghz ethernet 802.11g/n Marvell Kirkwood 1ghz ARM7 Jan 10 17:23:28 running oe linux / samba, etc. media server, NAS, etc. nice little box. Jan 10 17:23:47 ah neat Jan 10 17:24:56 hey all Jan 10 17:27:17 pretty powerful Jan 10 17:27:54 marvell can be jerks with their processor datasheets, tho Jan 10 17:28:02 I was really interested in the boxee box they showed at CES, but I don't want to run boxee, I want vanilla XBMC :/ Jan 10 17:34:07 so, get a shiva plug computer, they were showing a marvell 2ghz Jan 10 17:35:18 i like the development of some of these arm based laptops .. very exciting time Jan 10 17:36:13 arm is everywhere .. might be a good stock to own Jan 10 17:36:34 did anyone see that new mobo in development that is essentially a regular mobo + an atom CPU mobo combined? that looked really cool. sure it's not arm, but the concept is intriguing. Jan 10 17:37:00 atom is an intel architecture .. chips made by tsmc Jan 10 17:37:24 I know it's not arm :p Jan 10 17:37:38 sorry, i read your sentence incorrectly Jan 10 17:37:39 :( Jan 10 17:38:17 but having the idea of a high power side of your PC doing your usual high-power tasks, and saving the low power part for running 24/7, stuff like that Jan 10 17:38:29 geist: did you confirm missing parts of 1.3.5 or do you know what tree that patch should be against? the omap stuff is against vanilla from what I can see Jan 10 17:39:17 CoolMatty: i've never been a big fan of atom, personally .. but that's just me Jan 10 17:39:23 kernel patch for pixi Jan 10 17:40:20 bpadalino: yeah, netbooks can drag. but they could put an arm system there instead of atom for even more power savings. it'd make switching between the two more tricky I guess, but still be useful Jan 10 17:40:49 atom requires too much supporting circuitry and chipsets to be really power efficient .. Jan 10 17:42:30 atom has a hard bar to reach. it not only has to run an OS, but actually run windows. People expect to be able to do most of the things they do on their pc, on their netbooks with that atom cpu Jan 10 17:42:48 most arm devices are far more specific. they'll run stripped down versions of linux and such Jan 10 17:43:08 atom almost has to stay complex to continue to be relevant Jan 10 17:43:29 well - arm's run full versions of linux .. not sure what you mean by stripped down versions Jan 10 17:43:47 later Jan 10 17:44:03 I mean like you won't be seeing x servers + gnome running on most of them :p Jan 10 17:45:43 i think the new class of A8/A9 processors from arm really make running those things easy Jan 10 17:45:49 and no technical limitation not to Jan 10 17:46:47 running android is one thing, running ubuntu is another, is all. there's a big speed jump there from what I can tell Jan 10 17:46:52 CoolMatty: I have xserver and gnome on my pre, runs fine. Little tight on memory though. Jan 10 17:46:58 CoolMatty: like uclinux? that's for mmuless arm Jan 10 17:47:21 Windows Starter Jan 10 17:47:24 zonyl: but how's the speed :p Jan 10 17:47:36 there is hdd netbook at walmart for less than 300 Jan 10 17:47:42 CoolMatty: Not bad really. It is i/o bound on swap though Jan 10 17:47:50 ah Jan 10 17:47:58 well then maybe I'm just underestimating arm then Jan 10 17:48:11 I wish palm gave us 512MB Jan 10 17:48:14 atom replaced by integrated soc would be an improvement though Jan 10 17:48:22 they did! if you're on verizon >.> Jan 10 17:48:29 zonyl: i don't think micron was making those PoP memory packages back then Jan 10 17:48:31 is the Verizon device a world phone? anybody know? Jan 10 17:48:32 so they couldn't Jan 10 17:48:35 I wish palm gave me BJ Jan 10 17:48:44 tmzt: I highly doubt it Jan 10 17:49:00 verizon severely lacks world phones in the first place Jan 10 17:49:11 CoolMatty: if you ran something like xfce which is lighter on memory, it might be better .. Jan 10 17:49:18 bpadalino: Yah, I guess there really wasnt much of an embedded market demanding arm with lots of memory. Jan 10 17:49:20 no, I have tp2, blackberry storm 1 and 2 and bold I think are Jan 10 17:49:24 bpadalino: fluxbox! :p Jan 10 17:49:27 as well as some samsungs Jan 10 17:49:29 or fluxbox Jan 10 17:49:30 Whats good guys? Jan 10 17:49:57 512 is the suite spot Jan 10 17:50:01 these 16GB/512MB PoP are some pretty hardcore chips Jan 10 17:50:09 below that you get limitations in os Jan 10 17:50:25 still embedded sd? Jan 10 17:50:31 yes Jan 10 17:50:33 also, see ps3 Jan 10 17:50:33 no microsd Jan 10 17:50:48 right, but the nand has sd controller? Jan 10 17:50:50 and too bad Jan 10 17:50:58 oh, that I don't know Jan 10 17:50:58 just running Luna, X, icewm, firefox, I am at 2.7MB physical free :( Jan 10 17:51:05 saw first camera with microsd today Jan 10 17:51:14 sd is dieing :) Jan 10 17:51:15 so what is the final work did the pre plus get 512 mb of ram? Jan 10 17:51:26 I'd like to get one of the plusses though, but have to figure out a way to get it without signing up for verizon Jan 10 17:51:33 zonyl: luna, X??? Jan 10 17:51:58 i am actually curious if the pre plus has the half node step from ti to the omap36xx Jan 10 17:52:13 tmzt: X==Xtightvncserver Jan 10 17:52:19 uhh Jan 10 17:52:23 not X on sdl? Jan 10 17:52:24 tmzt: sony's actually starting to put SD cards in their hardware now. hopefully this is the sign of the death of memory stick. Jan 10 17:52:31 what's the vnc client? Jan 10 17:52:43 it's the same interface Jan 10 17:52:49 which hardware? ps3? Jan 10 17:52:58 some cameras to start I believe Jan 10 17:53:05 Apple still has no media reader Jan 10 17:53:07 hmm Jan 10 17:53:15 the macbooks have an sd card slot Jan 10 17:53:27 tmzt: I made one.. Trying to get it into wsoi git Jan 10 17:53:42 tmzt: sdlvnc Jan 10 17:54:03 made what? Jan 10 17:54:06 sdlvnc http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/218600-app-request-vnc-viewer-webos-ill-pay-100-a.html Jan 10 17:54:20 not X? Jan 10 17:54:35 is sdl a requirement for the new native graphics? Jan 10 17:54:52 tmzt: I made a vnc sdl client. I connect it to chroot debian Xtightvncserver, thus I have X on my pre in a card. Jan 10 17:55:16 but probably not as nice as native X would be Jan 10 17:55:19 in a card Jan 10 17:55:33 based on the android experience at least Jan 10 17:55:57 zonyl: so are you going to pay yourself $100? :p Jan 10 17:56:40 Anyone experience a loss of game data from nfsu? I restarted my phone and I had to start from the beginning again... Jan 10 18:01:12 CoolMatty: Heh. Ill just donate it to wsoi if I can get it packaged ;) Jan 10 18:08:39 I wish I had oodles of money to donate. I'd donate for someone to port SNES lol Jan 10 18:09:31 CoolMatty: The types of folks that can write C/C++ typically dont need money. Thats the paradox ;) Jan 10 18:09:45 so it seems :p Jan 10 18:09:46 damnit Jan 10 18:10:08 Restart Required, You are no longer signed in to your Palm Profile on this phone. You need to restart your phone. Jan 10 18:10:23 there is a js port of an nes emulator. but it barely runs well on chrome/firefox, much less on the phone. lawl Jan 10 18:11:39 other fun undocumented things in 1.3.5... Jan 10 18:11:43 luna-send -n 1 "palm://com.palm.mobilehotspot/clientList" "{}" Jan 10 18:11:58 I imagine that's for the hotspot app on verizon Jan 10 18:12:12 obvious comment is obvious, I know :p Jan 10 18:13:01 CoolMatty: sure, no reason to think it's only useful for verizon customers though :) Jan 10 18:13:59 very true. but sprint doesn't offer the mobile tethering option that verizon will be for the mobile hotspot stuff, so enabling similar functionality would be against webos internal's clean image, wouldn't it? Jan 10 18:14:16 (and trust me, if it's possible, I'm not going to complain, I want good tethering too! :p) Jan 10 18:14:24 I wish the engadget app could be ported for precentral :p Jan 10 18:14:54 I didn't like the engadget app. it's only useful for their podcasts IMO. I use google reader for their news posts :p Jan 10 18:15:29 CoolMatty: the moratorium on tethering is over, there are lots of unlocked GSM phones that work on any device, and Bell Mobility has tethering in their contracts apparently, so there are legitimate uses Jan 10 18:15:45 ah ok Jan 10 18:15:47 s/device/network/ Jan 10 18:15:47 destinal meant: CoolMatty: the moratorium on tethering is over, there are lots of unlocked GSM phones that work on any network, and Bell Mobility has tethering in their contracts apparently, so there are legitimate uses Jan 10 18:15:51 then by all means go for it! :D Jan 10 18:16:17 i promise I won't use it when my contract doesn't allow me. >.> <.< Jan 10 18:16:31 *cough* Jan 10 18:17:04 well engadget app is good for photo gallery and post a comment Jan 10 18:17:22 ah. the two things I never do on engadget :p Jan 10 18:18:12 I use drpodder for their podcasts so it's worthless for me in that sense Jan 10 18:18:28 I really only use my zune for podcasting really Jan 10 18:18:47 they need to use an expanded article feed for the app Jan 10 18:19:05 it's really annoying reading incomplete articles in the app Jan 10 18:19:15 mhmm Jan 10 18:19:35 and makes it pointless really Jan 10 18:20:28 it's like here's this app you can't read full articles but you can comment on the imcomplete version if you want the full effect go to our website Jan 10 18:22:02 CoolMatty: I got Snes9x working some days ago, kind of. it was running link to the past but with no sound and had to be launched from command line Jan 10 18:22:17 that is awesome, destinal Jan 10 18:22:28 how was the speed at least? Jan 10 18:22:30 I think I'll try porting a different emulator since Snes9x only supports oss sound Jan 10 18:22:38 CoolMatty: it seemed full speed Jan 10 18:22:51 well, there's zsnes, I think there's an SDL port of that already out there from my googling Jan 10 18:23:09 CoolMatty: I read that zsnes was 1/2 x86 asm Jan 10 18:23:13 I'm surprised snes9x only does OSS. It's one of those programs people have modified to death Jan 10 18:23:15 so I didn't even try Jan 10 18:24:04 CoolMatty: there's an interesting port called DrPocketSnes Jan 10 18:24:13 that's partially based on Snes9x Jan 10 18:24:28 what about padsp, destinal? pre uses pulseaudio, right? Jan 10 18:24:57 CoolMatty: yeah, but I'm trying to avoid external dependencies Jan 10 18:25:19 like other libs or binaries that would need installed to make it work Jan 10 18:25:31 ah I wasn't sure if the pre already had padsp Jan 10 18:25:34 but it doesn't Jan 10 18:25:34 :/ Jan 10 18:26:03 since it's supposed to come with pulseaudio, at least on the pc :p Jan 10 18:26:03 there is zsnes in LJP IIRC Jan 10 18:26:07 right, since there's nothing it would need to run that wouldn't be written for pulse or alsa Jan 10 18:26:13 Anyone know of a good example of a bitmap font in SDL? Jan 10 18:26:16 means, no ASM Jan 10 18:26:23 I thought LJP was nothing but asm Jan 10 18:26:31 LJP is no ASM at all Jan 10 18:26:36 only the blitting function Jan 10 18:26:41 ah Jan 10 18:26:51 and this only on normal Palm devices, the Zod had a blitting function Jan 10 18:27:28 neither Tinnus nor me knew enough ASM to add anything to the ports Jan 10 18:27:29 CoolMatty: I ported padsp to the pre.. The library for that is on precentral somewhere. Jan 10 18:27:47 CoolMatty: Flakey though, was trying to get it working on PJSIP Jan 10 18:28:12 destinal: consider putting snes into git at some point Jan 10 18:28:34 ah Jan 10 18:28:37 dtzWill: once I know which path is going to work, I will, not even past POC yet Jan 10 18:28:42 is anyone going for Duke Nukem 3D already? Jan 10 18:28:48 I tried getting LJP working on Classic. that was a mess :/ Jan 10 18:29:12 CoolMatty: I found LJP has only a very limited ampount of free RAM Jan 10 18:29:13 save your efforts on Duke for Duke Nukem Forever :p Jan 10 18:29:23 fwiw i have vba in the works :) Jan 10 18:29:32 which is quite important for LJP (SNES, Genesis) and the other 3D ports Jan 10 18:29:37 MetaView: yeah, and the memory hacks available to typical palmos devices doesn't work there Jan 10 18:29:40 I suppose putting three different emulators in nonworking is reversible clutter, but clutter nonetheless IMO Jan 10 18:30:02 CoolMatty: Duke3D is such a great game... Jan 10 18:30:15 and runs very nice on 400MHz ARM Jan 10 18:30:21 I know :p Jan 10 18:30:33 Hexen2 is something else to consider, nice gfx Jan 10 18:30:40 Commander Keen needs porting Jan 10 18:30:56 prrr, jump'n'run Jan 10 18:31:02 although if we go for commander keen might as well just get dosbox Jan 10 18:31:06 CoolMatty: keen could be run in dosbox Jan 10 18:31:13 then we can run duke nukem 1/2 Jan 10 18:31:56 I wonder how those folks on the PSP ported snes9x Jan 10 18:32:00 CoolMatty: dosbox is actually a really easy port except for.. hmm.. midi mainly. I was struggling with it but I had just missed changing an HWSURFACE to SWSURFACE Jan 10 18:32:09 since PSP is mips, that'd be a different asm Jan 10 18:32:23 is that why doom/quake's music doesn't work? cause of no midi? Jan 10 18:32:35 no Jan 10 18:32:40 its cause the music is on the CD Jan 10 18:32:48 doom was on CD? Jan 10 18:32:48 haha Jan 10 18:32:49 DOOM's music was always MIDI Jan 10 18:32:57 oh not sure about doom Jan 10 18:33:00 but quakes music was. Jan 10 18:33:04 ah Jan 10 18:33:10 quake was nine inch nails on CD, right? :) Jan 10 18:33:11 *ahem*, sorry. nothing personal at all CoolMatty but i get that question a lot haha :). Jan 10 18:33:36 what question? no music on doom? :p Jan 10 18:33:39 destinal: q3 i thought had some Jan 10 18:34:05 destinal: nope maybe you're right :D Jan 10 18:34:22 I wonder if Cyan Worlds would let me port Myst/Riven Jan 10 18:34:31 I could do that in JS Jan 10 18:34:41 the only hard part would be the video portions Jan 10 18:34:53 quake 1's music and sound is designed by Trent Reznor Jan 10 18:34:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake << source Jan 10 18:35:07 Myst would be an awesome port :D Jan 10 18:35:15 dtzWill: so, pretty sure the DSP has no native midi support and we'd need a softsynth, yeah? Jan 10 18:35:34 myst/riven would be awesome on a touchscreen period. it's like, the perfect game for a phone. slow, easy, touchscreen friendly, and you can pick it up at any time. lol Jan 10 18:35:43 I think they ported myst to the iphone already Jan 10 18:36:10 yeah myst is on the iphone Jan 10 18:36:17 destinal: that sounds right, although i'm not very knowledgeable about the sound stuff, sorry :) Jan 10 18:36:18 destinal: woo softsynth. let's get some polymorphic ringtones going too! :D Jan 10 18:36:29 http://cyanworlds.com/iPhone/Myst_iVersion/Welcome.html Jan 10 18:37:45 I'm kinda saddened how Cyan Worlds has just died off :/ Jan 10 18:37:53 timidity - midi Jan 10 18:37:54 aha, SDL_mixer is a softsynth Jan 10 18:37:56 I used to really be into the lore and such for that game Jan 10 18:38:05 destinal: how convenient :D Jan 10 18:38:25 can use timidity instrument patches Jan 10 18:41:53 and to get even more silly, port mario paint composer >.> Jan 10 18:42:05 lol Jan 10 18:43:16 and obviously we need a MOD player :P Jan 10 18:50:37 destinal: ooh yeah, we can start with playing MOD and chiptunes! :D Jan 10 18:51:24 that was one neat thing about the PSP SNES9x port. they had an option where you could zip up snes chiptunes and it'd play it while in the menu Jan 10 18:56:36 #webos any tutorial for this service? Jan 10 18:57:31 yes, im an idiot and ill be quiet in case anyone would like to point me to where idiots go. Thank you Jan 10 18:57:53 what service? Jan 10 18:59:26 this board, it looks very old, like twenty years old, have not seen a chat service like this since i was a young man. Came here from the preware wiki site hoping to learn. Maybe there is not much to it here, but i did not want to burden the folks with stupid questions or stupid text Jan 10 19:00:53 oh you mean irc ? Jan 10 19:01:46 yes, did some irc stuff in '92 and then before that in '88 but it was bulliten boards back then Jan 10 19:01:47 Ok.. I am going insane here.. Jan 10 19:02:04 hwo the heck can I escape an apostrophe in a shell script? Jan 10 19:02:10 gammafoxtrot, IRC is far from dead Jan 10 19:02:26 dBsooner, wouldn't you escape it like you would anything else? Jan 10 19:02:29 I have a scring with several ' in it.. and I want those to be escaped.. Jan 10 19:02:54 I know how to escape.. \' ... But I want to do a replace on them in a string Jan 10 19:02:59 gammafoxtrot: There is a FidoNet subscription for #webos-internals if you prefer Jan 10 19:03:24 dBsooner, can you pastebin the shell script? Jan 10 19:03:25 no this is cool, ill just hang out and learn some stuff. Jan 10 19:03:29 sed "s/'/\\'/g" doesn't work Jan 10 19:03:36 hrm... Jan 10 19:04:10 [root@deluge autopatch]# echo "this is just a te'st of how' it work's" | sed "s/'/\'/g" Jan 10 19:04:10 this is just a te'st of how' it work's Jan 10 19:04:51 what is your desired result? Jan 10 19:05:06 this is just a te\'st of how\' it work\'s Jan 10 19:05:23 ahh, so you want to replace the apostrophes with escaped apostrophes Jan 10 19:05:26 yes Jan 10 19:05:59 i am creating a script to turn all the autopatch Makefile's into an SQL insertion script Jan 10 19:06:21 ahh Jan 10 19:06:25 and DESCRIPTIONS have apostrophes in them that I need to escape Jan 10 19:06:26 i read that as "sql injection script" and went wtf? :p Jan 10 19:06:29 lemme play with it and see if I can figure it out Jan 10 19:06:44 bpadalino@lebowski:~$ echo "this is a 'test of h'ow this wo'rks" | sed -e "s/'/\\\'/g" Jan 10 19:06:44 this is a \'test of h\'ow this wo\'rks Jan 10 19:06:50 PERFECT Jan 10 19:06:52 :) Jan 10 19:07:02 I could swear I tried escaping the escape Jan 10 19:07:10 but I guess i didn't try it with double quotes of the sed Jan 10 19:07:29 yeehaa! Jan 10 19:07:33 Thanks bpadalino.. Jan 10 19:07:37 np Jan 10 19:07:39 i'll pastebin my script. :) Jan 10 19:07:45 just so you all can see my shell script madness Jan 10 19:07:52 echo "this is just a te'st of how' it work's" | sed "s/'/\\\'/g" Jan 10 19:08:01 you need 2 escapes in the second part Jan 10 19:08:05 Some of it is sloppy, but it's just the fastest way I came ot it Jan 10 19:08:05 one to escape the \ Jan 10 19:08:08 and one to escape the Jan 10 19:08:10 ' Jan 10 19:08:19 so escape \ escape ' Jan 10 19:08:50 echo "this is just a te'st of how' it work's" | sed "s/'/\\\'/g" >>> this is just a te\'st of how\' it work\'s Jan 10 19:09:01 AND ONE RING TO FIND THEM (sorry) Jan 10 19:09:41 hmm, I guess I'll try porting a port of a port Jan 10 19:09:53 lawl Jan 10 19:10:00 lol, would that be a ported ported port? Jan 10 19:10:15 DrNokSNES is based on DrPocketSNES, which is based on PocketSNES and Snex9x and etc etc Jan 10 19:10:28 lol Jan 10 19:10:38 So we can always have DrPreSNES :P Jan 10 19:10:46 dBsooner, ping Jan 10 19:10:52 DrPreSNES is based on DrNokSNES based on DrPocketSNES based on PocketSNES based on SNES9X Jan 10 19:10:54 Woo! Jan 10 19:10:58 that should be the title Jan 10 19:11:22 DrPreNokPocketSNES9X Jan 10 19:11:22 lol Jan 10 19:11:24 there ya go Jan 10 19:11:25 sup cryptk Jan 10 19:11:30 sorry, I was back to my stuff Jan 10 19:11:33 did you see what I wrote for ya? Jan 10 19:11:37 Yep Jan 10 19:11:40 enjoy Jan 10 19:11:50 PreDNPNS9X Jan 10 19:11:53 thanks. ;) Jan 10 19:11:57 that's easy to say Jan 10 19:11:58 that is some escaping madness though, lol Jan 10 19:12:12 Pre\'SNES\'9x Jan 10 19:12:17 back to playing WoW Jan 10 19:12:24 someone should port that to the Pre Jan 10 19:12:29 it runs on the iPhone... Jan 10 19:12:34 what? Jan 10 19:12:39 no way Jan 10 19:12:42 WoW? Jan 10 19:13:22 there isn't a wine port for ARM is there? Jan 10 19:13:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFZA6gRK4qs Jan 10 19:13:56 uh. So Wine is just library replacement Jan 10 19:13:59 Warcraft on iPhone Jan 10 19:14:07 you'd need actual x86 emulation Jan 10 19:14:22 "To clarify, WoW is running on the MacBook Pro that you see in the beginning. The iPhone just serves as a separate screen and controller connected over the internet." Jan 10 19:14:26 wine is not an emulator Jan 10 19:14:28 :P Jan 10 19:14:42 wine emulates apis, not code Jan 10 19:14:46 anyone have a link for ssh to pre handy? Jan 10 19:14:55 destinal: yeah forgot about that :p Jan 10 19:15:06 fine, port qemu :p Jan 10 19:15:11 roxfan: well say it simulate's APIs, provides drop in binary compatible API's Jan 10 19:15:12 you could probably make some unholy hybrid of qemu and wine Jan 10 19:15:39 or just run windows inside qemu... but that's a bit heavy Jan 10 19:16:40 either way, not likely to do with performance Jan 10 19:17:04 s/do with/run with good/ Jan 10 19:17:04 destinal meant: either way, not likely to run with good performance Jan 10 19:17:19 someone got win95 on PSP once. it took like 15 minutes just to get to the desktop, lmao Jan 10 19:17:32 we could run win95 in dosbox too probably Jan 10 19:17:39 painfully slowly Jan 10 19:17:45 it would only be useful for the irony Jan 10 19:18:45 CoolMatty: MS Bob running on Windows 3.11 on Pre would be a double-irony. Jan 10 19:18:50 haha Jan 10 19:19:39 Im excited I have text display on my SDL surface! Creating a widget library sux. Jan 10 19:20:26 did zsoc|sleep ever get anywhere with his idea of blitting to the desktop? Jan 10 19:22:00 Im just trying to get a way to get parameters from within SDL instead of command line. I think I am almost there. Jan 10 19:23:10 hey, I just came up with an idea for preware Jan 10 19:23:11 Why am I getting this error? Cannot read property length of undefined. When I try to unistall preware under device management, it is not there Jan 10 19:24:18 timestamp the feed... preware could have a new setting for when to update the feeds called "for changes" or something like that... preware would know the timestamp of the last time it updated the feeds... it could pull a timestamp from somewhere of the last time something in the feed changed, then it would know if it needs to pull a new copy of the feed or no Jan 10 19:24:23 s/no/not/ Jan 10 19:24:23 cryptk meant: timestamp the feed... preware could have a new setting for when to update the feeds called "for changes" or something like that... preware would knotw the timestamp of the last time it updated the feeds... it could pull a timestamp from somewhere of the l... Jan 10 19:24:41 would possibly save on some bandwidth Jan 10 19:24:56 how to i reset the webos on the emulator? i installed a theme and on boot the emulator hangs with 100% cpu load Jan 10 19:25:00 especially during those times that people are hammering the update feeds button waiting for an update to the new port to come out Jan 10 19:25:09 just reinstall the SDK Jan 10 19:25:56 hawiwo, your best bet is right after an isntall use vBox to take a snapshot of it in a "virgin state", then you can easily revert to that snapshot if needed Jan 10 19:26:35 ok next time :"-| Jan 10 19:31:41 no Jan 10 19:31:44 don't reinstall the emulator Jan 10 19:31:48 reset it Jan 10 19:31:52 had a link for turning on ssh for pre, cant find it. seems like the best way to move files to pre. reason: cut and paste to vi in pre is not so good. prefer to cut and paste into vim. anyway..... just looking for the quick and dirty "how to ssh into pre (ie turn on the sshd for idiots) Jan 10 19:32:05 palm-emulator --reset Jan 10 19:32:11 gammafoxtrot: there's a package for it in preware now Jan 10 19:32:25 thanks oooh did not know Jan 10 19:32:29 i will look Jan 10 19:32:56 gammafoxtrot: novacom (if you have it connected via usb) can also get and put files onto your pre if you are in dev mode Jan 10 19:33:04 last time I tried the reset my emulator broke... had the same happen to a friend Jan 10 19:33:11 I figured it was broken Jan 10 19:33:39 Im getting an error when tryin to install freetether anyone around to help? Jan 10 19:33:51 im novacom in from mac osx , just dont see how to move files? guess i should look at the novacom man page Jan 10 19:34:07 novaterm opens up a term .. if you want to use novacom Jan 10 19:34:44 example usage: novacom put file:///usr/local/bin/myfile < /path/to/myfile Jan 10 19:34:52 thanks, purpose was to do my first "hello world" Jan 10 19:34:56 oh very cool thanks Jan 10 19:35:05 heya Jan 10 19:35:06 novacom get file:///etc/somefile > /path/to/where/you/want/somefile Jan 10 19:35:32 question: are services "allowed" in an official application? Jan 10 19:35:37 intereswting the way the > and < is used Jan 10 19:35:47 Klownicle: it's just stdin/stdout redirection .. Jan 10 19:35:51 hawiwo: palm-emulator --reset "Palm SDK 1.3.5.368 (320x480)" Jan 10 19:35:52 yeah Jan 10 19:36:01 I just think thats a noval way of doing it heh Jan 10 19:36:03 ha Jan 10 19:36:06 erm, ah rather Jan 10 19:36:10 hawiwo: and if you use the pixi shaped version palm-emulator --reset "Palm SDK 1.3.5.368 (320x400)" Jan 10 19:36:21 swiss, i dont' think you can. Jan 10 19:36:27 least not yet Jan 10 19:36:51 the PDK wouldn't help? how far is it bound to SDL? Jan 10 19:37:13 might have to wait till march to find out more about the pdk?? Jan 10 19:38:05 Klownicle: and they may not be supported even then Jan 10 19:38:26 Homebrew FTW Jan 10 19:38:27 heh Jan 10 19:38:38 thanks for helping i got it. I found a backup and a restore on my ubuntu box worked :-) Jan 10 19:39:04 hawiwo: yeah I end up resetting the emulator so frequently that restoring a backup would suck Jan 10 19:39:09 its really great that palm is casually supporting the homebrew especially with the shout out at ces. dont' get that with any other mobile os. Jan 10 19:40:08 hawiwo: on the bright side, I got doom working in the emulator (not that anyone would want to play it there, but it's cool for debugging non-OpenGL ports) Jan 10 19:45:12 So I guess what I really need to figure out is what patches drnoksnes makes to drpocketsnes and work on backing out just the X11 / hildon ones Jan 10 19:45:28 is there a max resolution for icon png file like 480x320? Jan 10 19:46:13 sorry, guess i should look at what is on my pre - stupid question Jan 10 19:46:31 gammafoxtrot: I'm not sure there's a max icon file but 320x480 would be the entire screen Jan 10 19:46:38 PuffTheMagic: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Icons here's an update to the space invaders logo to address the issue. Jan 10 19:46:51 even though it would get scaled down it would be worthless storage waste Jan 10 19:47:39 thanks templarian!! Jan 10 19:48:27 gammafoxtrot: looks like 64x64 :) Jan 10 19:48:49 again, not a max but everything bigger gets scaled down to that anyway Jan 10 19:49:56 So I want to write an app that modifies /tmp/pmnetconfig/dnsmasq.palm.conf... Is there any (acceptable by Palm's standards) way I can get such an app into the app catalog? Jan 10 19:50:20 riskable: no, direct filesystem access isn't provided by the support API's Jan 10 19:50:32 /ort/ortted/ Jan 10 19:50:38 descent http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPxJCDIBOVM Jan 10 19:51:02 I can think of three ways to do it: 1) Just write a java service (already done but untested)). 2) use the webos-internals PDK method and have it execute a binary (or script) that makes the change. 3) Wait for the official PDK and pray? Jan 10 19:51:43 I figure if they're allowing, say, a Need For Speed binary to be executed I could just write a binary that makes my modification. Sounds logical, yes? Jan 10 19:51:43 riskable: right, only the third has any chance of getting in the catalog Jan 10 19:52:07 So Palm definitely has no plans to allow 3rd party services (ever) as far as we know? Jan 10 19:52:22 Mojo java services, that is Jan 10 19:52:25 riskable: well we don't know either way, so I suppose it's possible a service would work Jan 10 19:52:37 riskable: eventually Jan 10 19:53:03 Well I guess I'm stuck then Jan 10 19:53:06 riskable: I hope palm provides NPAPI stuff in their PDK Jan 10 19:53:13 NPAPI? Jan 10 19:53:21 netscape plugin api, it's what terminal uses Jan 10 19:53:30 it's the way you get a mixed mojo + native app like terminal Jan 10 19:53:43 or classic Jan 10 19:54:00 I'm looking to outsource some PDK work (when it's released) for our application in the App Catalog. Jan 10 19:54:13 Right, that's what I think I've created already... I used the code written for the LEDmanager and made my own (smaller) version that simply executes a single shell command. Jan 10 19:54:47 I just figured it was called the "Mojo java services API" or something similar... But that's the NPAPI? I had no idea Jan 10 19:54:48 riskable: well the downside of a service is it runs 100% of the time Jan 10 19:54:57 riskable: you didn't make an NPAPI plugin Jan 10 19:55:11 Yeah, not only that but it is such a HUGE waste to write a big java applet just to execute a command :) Jan 10 19:55:14 terminal is the only one out for webos that I know of. Jan 10 19:55:19 Ahh, OK Jan 10 19:55:29 I'm new to WebOS (obviously =) Jan 10 19:56:15 oil, does wIRC work on 1.3.5 ? Jan 10 19:56:18 Though I am impressed by how quickly I was able to write an app using the official Mojo SDK... It is just a severe hindrance to my imagination Jan 10 19:56:30 Volcom45, I have used wIRC on 1.3.5 Jan 10 19:56:37 I installed it and its service through preware after a webos doctor but it won't connect to a server Jan 10 19:56:42 says the service isn't running Jan 10 19:56:43 hmmm Jan 10 19:56:48 riskable: you can make services in C++ too as opposed to java Jan 10 19:56:53 or C Jan 10 19:57:00 (or in C also) Jan 10 19:57:01 weird... Jan 10 19:57:11 perhaps i'll try reinstalling Jan 10 19:57:28 I'd rather use Java even though I probably know C a bit better (I hate having to code in C since I'm so bad with memory allocation--always worried about leaving a buffer overflow open) Jan 10 19:58:37 any idea why i can't disable a command-menu item? Jan 10 19:58:38 Where are the instructions for building an app that launches a binary like DOOM and Quake? Jan 10 19:58:48 I mean, the packaging part Jan 10 19:59:05 swisstomcat: Splice remove it. Jan 10 19:59:06 riskable: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Building_DOOM_with_scratchbox2 Jan 10 19:59:14 I already have my cross-compile env setup and working properly... I just don't grok how it is packaged for Preware Jan 10 19:59:18 riskable: packing is also included Jan 10 19:59:22 in that article Jan 10 19:59:44 destinal: Oh, I see it now. Thanks. I must've missed the appinfo.json part when I first looked at that Jan 10 20:00:36 having trouble with the path from osx client to pre host using novacom (novacom put file:tom.txt > /tmp/tom.txt) dumb i know Jan 10 20:00:40 Do the pre-release PDK apps (such as Need for Speed) use shell scripts before they launch like the DOOM does in its instructions? Jan 10 20:00:50 ...because if I can get away with using a launch script I'm all set! Jan 10 20:01:17 echo "" >> /tmp/pmnetconfig/dnsmasq.palm.com Jan 10 20:01:30 ...and then the next line can just launch my regular Mojo SDK app Jan 10 20:02:21 riskable: yeah, you could do that. or you could make it sed your appinfo.json, rescan and launch itself too :) Jan 10 20:02:27 anything new Jan 10 20:02:35 so the first launch is a game, it changes itself to web and relaunches Jan 10 20:02:39 destinal: Now that's thinking creatively! Jan 10 20:02:49 ...but it might be a bit slow :) Jan 10 20:02:53 How long does a rescan take? Jan 10 20:03:02 basically instant Jan 10 20:03:08 Oh, then that'd work well then Jan 10 20:03:29 sounds hackish :) Jan 10 20:03:46 swisstomcat: Not really... Not if you only need to make a modification once (ever) and then you're done Jan 10 20:03:54 well it's more elegant than a whole service that runs all the time for a change you only need once Jan 10 20:03:57 true Jan 10 20:04:02 or installing the service, running it, uninstalling it Jan 10 20:04:07 Exactly Jan 10 20:04:14 if palm will accept it Jan 10 20:04:27 probably not Jan 10 20:04:36 but its a good holdover until PDK Jan 10 20:04:42 yeah Jan 10 20:04:44 I suspect Palm might never accept an app that messes with the system configuration, period Jan 10 20:05:34 what do you do in the conf file? Jan 10 20:05:52 Just add a line that tells dnsmasq to pull in an extra config file Jan 10 20:06:41 cool cryptk wirc working fine now.. i uninstalled both, then installed the service first and rebooted, then the app and its working Jan 10 20:06:41 :) Jan 10 20:06:47 conf-file=/media/internal/myconfig.conf Jan 10 20:07:18 That's all it takes... Then you can add extra configuration options via your regular SDK app Jan 10 20:07:46 (for example, telling dnsmasq to use OpenDNS or Google's DNS servers) Jan 10 20:08:01 I wonder if there are any undocumented API's for that Jan 10 20:08:22 Since it is in /tmp I wouldn't be surprised if there were a way to mess with files there Jan 10 20:09:19 The only difficult part is getting it to make that change every time the device reboots (since /tmp/pmnetconfig/* is recreated at each boot) Jan 10 20:09:37 I could make the change to /etc/dnsmasq.palm.conf instead I guess but that seems less likely to be accepted Jan 10 20:10:05 hi everybody Jan 10 20:11:00 help please with novacom get file: command link for man page or any assistance very much appreciated for newbie Jan 10 20:11:39 can anybody helps me installing messaging plug-in on my GSM Pre? Jan 10 20:12:05 ok shell script gurus Jan 10 20:12:11 I have another delimma Jan 10 20:13:41 echo "DESCRIPTION = This is an example of a big=problem." | awk '/^DESCRPTION =/ {print $3}' Jan 10 20:13:48 that prints "This" Jan 10 20:13:56 I want it to print everything AFTER that first = sign Jan 10 20:14:20 Volcom45, good stuff Jan 10 20:14:46 dBsooner: Just change the field separator to = Jan 10 20:14:47 woops.. missed the I in DESCRIPTION of the awk.. Jan 10 20:14:56 akw -F= Jan 10 20:15:10 riskable: wouldn't that break at the next occurance of =? Jan 10 20:15:44 Yes, just do this: awk -F" = " Jan 10 20:16:12 ...unless you know there will be spaces used around = signs elsewhere Jan 10 20:16:21 but there are times where i have "DESCRIPTION = THIS is another = problem" Jan 10 20:18:04 echo "DESCRIPTION = This is an example of a big=problem." | python -c "import sys; s = sys.stdin.read(); print s.lstrip('DESCRIPTION = ')" Jan 10 20:18:24 mmmm Jan 10 20:18:26 that's yummy Jan 10 20:18:56 that cut's off the "T" Jan 10 20:19:33 Oops, I made the same mistake I always do... Jan 10 20:19:35 Use this instead: Jan 10 20:19:38 echo "DESCRIPTION = This is an example of a big=problem." | python -c "import sys; s = sys.stdin.read(); print s.replace('DESCRIPTION = ','')" Jan 10 20:19:49 ahhh Jan 10 20:20:04 i suppose I could have done: Jan 10 20:20:17 lstrip doesn't take strings as what to strip it takes strings as all the characters to strip :) Jan 10 20:21:07 echo "DESCRIPTION = This is an example of a big=problem." | sed 's/DESCRIPTION = //g' Jan 10 20:21:08 :) Jan 10 20:21:58 That works too... You might want to change the sed line to "sed 's/^DESCRIPTION = //g' Jan 10 20:22:08 (my brain works in Python right now =) Jan 10 20:22:37 yeah, that's what I meant Jan 10 21:00:28 Okay. so I got a palm pre on Christmas, I have spent this entire time in between trying to understand this phone. Now. I want to get preware, but everytime I go to a site ti tells me to go to like "getpreware.org" or something like that, but it says on the README that it's been taken down due to 1.3.5. But other people are still able to use the preware that got it before, and see many others that still get it. Jan 10 21:00:54 Mar: http://install.preware.org/ Jan 10 21:00:58 I'm confused, irritated, and have had so many issues with this phone I am about to replace it, Can anyone help me? Jan 10 21:02:46 What's confusing or irritating about it? Jan 10 21:03:37 dBsooner, awk -F= Jan 10 21:04:27 egaudet: you are WAY behind Jan 10 21:04:33 I am WAY ahead of that point. ;) Jan 10 21:04:43 In fact my script is done Jan 10 21:05:01 But...is your project done? Jan 10 21:05:01 I am just manually confirming all the TITLE's are equal to the Directory name Jan 10 21:05:22 then I am going to run this massive sql insert. :) Jan 10 21:05:31 ameng: what phone is running webOS 1.2 ? Jan 10 21:05:58 and from that point forward we will have a web portal to be able to modify the WebOS-Patches feed Jan 10 21:06:17 This is my first smart phone, and everything about it has beeen hell, between the audio, trying to get preware, battery life, appplications, I feel like a total twit, because I know that it's user smart, and well, if allt hese problems show my brain, I feel awfully stupid haha. Jan 10 21:06:22 you go to admin panel, make changes, writes to disk.. then you click "git commit" Jan 10 21:06:35 and it commits the changes to the gitorious REPOS (plural) Jan 10 21:06:46 gitorious.org AND git.webos-inertnals.org Jan 10 21:07:30 But, if there's any tips anyone could offer, it'd be much appreciated, just got the preware after weeks of trying to get it lol. thank you sooo much. Jan 10 21:08:28 egaudet: what the heck happened to the Pats? Jan 10 21:08:35 Mar so you got preware now? Jan 10 21:09:57 Preware is what makes this phone absolutely awesome. Word of advice (write this down and remember it) Jan 10 21:10:16 Adalius Thomas hates BB and told his former team about our gameplan? Jan 10 21:10:32 Mar: Preware is a homebrew application. Homebrew is always going to be more confusing than just App Catalog applications Jan 10 21:10:33 hello Jan 10 21:11:03 egaudet: hmm.. very nice idea Jan 10 21:11:09 1. Use patches because they are the shit and change so much in the phone.....and 2. before doing an overtheair update, go to preware, open list of everything, and search for an install emergency patch removal or else the phone update will screw up your phone Jan 10 21:11:10 Mar: In terms of battery life, coming from a dumbphone, battery life is always going to be shorter on a smartphone because of the processing. Jan 10 21:11:13 No, the fact is the Patriots OL is full of small but fast linemen who are good at pulling for screens but struggle mightily with strong DL pass rushing and are pretty terrible in run blocking. Plus without Welker the Patriots WRs (aside from Moss) are all absolutely horrendous. /rant-off-topic Jan 10 21:11:15 Brady looked like poop Jan 10 21:12:09 Brady looked like poop because his receivers are horrendous. The offense is built on read-react and route adjustments. Aside from Moss the rest of them stink at running routes and getting open. Edelman is a rookie but he's going to be a beast, he won't go down :) Jan 10 21:12:09 Mar: Applications can easily be downloaded from the App Catalog, however, without having to modify the phone with homebrew Jan 10 21:12:56 Losing Welker because of Houston's stupid field (and the idiotic invention of turf that makes no sense and causes too many injuries) pretty much sealed the Offense's faith Jan 10 21:13:17 anyone got a link to the ces show '10? Jan 10 21:13:47 youtube.com/palm I think Jan 10 21:14:26 thanks Jan 10 21:14:27 +rwhitby: ive been testing out the beta preware, and personally I'm not enjoying the way that it shows app catalog applications without the price with it. Will this be something you are looking to address before releasing it as the "most current" version of preware? Jan 10 21:14:39 knickrox13: yep Jan 10 21:14:44 However, it is awesome that you were able to add the feed in the first place Jan 10 21:14:44 If I have 1.2.1 and I update will it auto update to the newest version or to 1.3.5? Jan 10 21:15:23 Nice :) Jan 10 21:15:25 knickrox13: preware didn't have a concept of price before, so that needs to be added. Jan 10 21:15:26 1.3.5.1 Jan 10 21:15:38 Thanks HanableKing! :) Jan 10 21:15:57 np Jan 10 21:16:57 well exactly. Just kinda confusing at first. and kind of off-topic but just out of curiosity, did palm make it inaccessible for preware to install palm applications, or is that simply due to the fact that it needs to be able to accept payments only through the app catalog, something preware cant and shouldnt be able to handle Jan 10 21:17:20 I have a way to get parameters via sdl now! w00t Jan 10 21:17:57 not to butt in, but are you guys talking about makin homebrew apps cost money? Jan 10 21:18:30 tmzt: regarding the kernel patch - it will be against the kernel tree on opensource.palm.com - they have a tarball and a patch, and they go together Jan 10 21:18:45 whats good Jan 10 21:18:51 great CES coverage Jan 10 21:18:53 :) Jan 10 21:19:55 What are some good free apps not on preware?? Jan 10 21:20:56 Toaster23: RadioTime! Jan 10 21:21:45 any others? Jan 10 21:21:57 I'm deffently going to get radiotime. Jan 10 21:22:19 cryptk: re: preware feeds and timestamps - the "Once Daily" option already does that. Jan 10 21:22:54 Toaster23: I'm biased. I made RadioTime. But really, it's a good app. Jan 10 21:23:45 Hanableking: no I think he just wants to make preware understand the app catalog feed Jan 10 21:23:49 which has price Jan 10 21:24:23 zonyl: what are you getting parameters for? Jan 10 21:24:26 I c Jan 10 21:24:27 destinal1: so no-one asked riskable what he was working on, or if it was open source, ... Jan 10 21:25:50 reality9110: Yeah it looks like an amazing app. :) Jan 10 21:26:21 knickrox13: only app catalog app can access the download locations for app catalog apps. Jan 10 21:26:45 Hanableking: no, talking about preware accessing app catalog, not about charging for homebrew Jan 10 21:27:02 rwhitby: ah. well I have no problem discussing technical solutions with anyone, but it would be cool to know what it is and if he might want to make it available on preware through the feed Jan 10 21:27:35 rwhitby: Where does the SMS system link to? Or does it just link to the app catalog location of the app? Jan 10 21:27:48 destinal1: that's always my first question, before answering the technical ones :-) let's you know if your assistance is going to help the community or whether it's just going to be take and no give Jan 10 21:28:09 reality9110: as far as I can see, it just sends the appredirect URL to the phone Jan 10 21:28:12 hmm took me like 10 minutes to upgrade from 1.2.1 to 1.3.5.1 Jan 10 21:28:21 rwhitby: very good point Jan 10 21:28:29 its surprisingly fast. Jan 10 21:28:37 reality9110: but I've never seen the SMS system, since they won't SMS to Australia Jan 10 21:28:42 rwhitby: What about deconstructing findapp to get the location of the app. Should be able to add some logging in there. Jan 10 21:29:07 reality9110: already done that. you can mitm it, but not in a way that is on the right side of the bright line Jan 10 21:29:22 Ah Jan 10 21:29:44 let me check the SMS system out Jan 10 21:30:01 https, would require client / device modifications to be considered authenticated properly Jan 10 21:30:15 right? Jan 10 21:30:37 SMS just opens the app catalog Jan 10 21:30:54 destinal1: yeah, you need to do stuff which is clearly subverting the security. Jan 10 21:31:21 and if it's paid app you can't get around that. Jan 10 21:35:55 rwhitby, I was thinking about more than jsut the once daily... have it so preware can tell if something has changed Jan 10 21:36:11 so it will update more than once a day if something in the feeds changes more than once a day Jan 10 21:36:24 it isn't a necessary idea though, was just a thought Jan 10 21:37:14 Hi. Does anyone of you know why I can't launch sdl apps from the gui but they work when launched from the terminal? Jan 10 21:37:27 sepi: upstart service not installed? Jan 10 21:39:10 rwhitby: hmm, I think I have it, but Ill have a look Jan 10 21:40:07 rwhitby: I have it installed Jan 10 21:42:25 sepi: how did you install it? Jan 10 21:43:01 rwhitby: using preware Jan 10 21:43:42 destinal1: zonyl needs to upload some stuff to our git repos - libraries/SDL_vnc and applications/sdlvnc - can you help him with git usage on ubuntu please? Jan 10 21:43:51 * rwhitby bbl (commute) Jan 10 21:46:46 oc80z: app catalog feeds in alpha preware Jan 10 21:49:39 wsup guys Jan 10 21:50:47 hello Jan 10 21:51:17 btw, i can also start sdldoom using initctl Jan 10 21:53:19 atlanta: how's those keybindings going? Jan 10 21:53:36 sepi: dunno then. Jan 10 21:54:01 * rwhitby gone Jan 10 21:54:08 rwhitby: ehhhh learning c while im at it so trying to figure out where to actually put the information on my own without bothering u Jan 10 21:55:21 argh did I miss rwhitby ? I have questions Jan 10 21:55:39 maybe he's heading in to work Jan 10 22:00:53 is there any easy way to play divx avi Jan 10 22:00:57 on my pre? or i gotta convert it? Jan 10 22:01:51 Just installed wIRC on my pre...question. I was able to autoconnect to freenode, but I was wondering if its possible to autoconnect to #webos-internals as well? Jan 10 22:04:47 brb; reboot Jan 10 22:10:09 hey anyone know if export=http_proxy will work Jan 10 22:10:09 ? Jan 10 22:13:16 only with wget Jan 10 22:14:14 not luna Jan 10 22:15:46 we should probably work on a browser Jan 10 22:15:51 destinal-wirc: DAMN Jan 10 22:15:57 any configs that will Jan 10 22:15:57 ? Jan 10 22:16:35 knickrox13, define a connect command /join #channelname Jan 10 22:17:05 you can do iptables to trans proxy on pre to upstream proxy Jan 10 22:17:38 tap the gear on a server, then advanced, perform on connect Jan 10 22:17:47 put your /join command in there Jan 10 22:19:21 Beautiful! Thank you. I had been fooling around with that, but couldn't figure out that it needed to start with /join Jan 10 22:22:10 you see now than, that you put irc commands in there right, any irc commands, /join is just one possible. Jan 10 22:22:20 destinal-wirc: ok that might be an option im looking to make an app for people behind proxy to easily turn on and off Jan 10 22:22:24 i just got OpenJazz / Jazz Jackrabbit running on the pre, playing level 1 now, works perfectly Jan 10 22:22:51 so, /msg nickserv /msg x@channels.undernet.org etc... Jan 10 22:24:22 except undernets mostly out until they fix wirc to allow you to respond to the damned /quote pass prompt. or auto-respond to it like you can script any other client to do. Jan 10 22:25:04 Right right. Well thanks! Jan 10 22:35:13 atlanta: delegate.org is in optware Jan 10 22:35:17 jacques: here now Jan 10 22:39:30 rwhitby, hi, I have several questions re: libglues. first is name: it looks like lib should be libGLUES_CM but I notice in cross-compile/packages nothing uses mixed case Jan 10 22:39:48 how too get hide icon on the botoom of screen Jan 10 22:40:00 jacques: so far I've just matched the naming from the OE packages that Palm uses Jan 10 22:40:29 rwhitby, I doubt libGLUES_CM is in OE Jan 10 22:40:34 2) how to handle svn pull, what about changing versions? specify rev? Jan 10 22:40:53 jacques: when that fails, I'd match the upstream package name Jan 10 22:41:06 3) Makefile issue; there is none; (none is includes in the libGLUES_CM source) Jan 10 22:41:09 jacques: I reckon specify REV Jan 10 22:41:12 I am making one Jan 10 22:42:13 4) static / dynamic lib issue - currently I am making a static lib, I would like to make a dynamic lib but don't remember how, and everything else is using libtool for that these days which is a deep rabbit-hole Jan 10 22:43:03 rwhitby, it would help if we have a SRV_SVN method in support/download.mk - I suppose I can look at writing one Jan 10 22:43:56 jacques: yep Jan 10 22:44:16 5) the libGLUES source includes the lib source and a bunch of test / demo apps - should these be split out? I am thinking maybe yes Jan 10 22:44:45 jacques: SRC_SVN and SRC_SVN_REV Jan 10 22:44:46 all these things are causing this commit to take a long time :-\ Jan 10 22:45:12 jacques: -shared ? Jan 10 22:45:26 arg to what ? Jan 10 22:45:31 gcc I think Jan 10 22:45:41 I can research it, but more time. Jan 10 22:45:50 someone will know Jan 10 22:46:46 jacques: for demo apps, I think once the lib is built and staged, and we have a way of packaging and install, then another package under preware/build will use the same SVN repo to build test/demo apps Jan 10 22:46:54 rwhitby: ok ill check it out Jan 10 22:47:20 jacques: I'm working on Preware app catalog screenshots and price today Jan 10 22:47:28 did anyone notice the hardware test has a record and playback feature Jan 10 22:47:28 ? Jan 10 22:48:12 I think someone said so a while ago Jan 10 22:48:16 rwhitby, sounds like the GLUES demos should be split out from the libGLUES_CM package then ? Jan 10 22:48:18 re crotest Jan 10 22:49:02 destinal-wirc: i wonder how they did it Jan 10 22:49:11 Fiorst part, to compile the various .o modules that will go into the .so: gcc $CFLAGS -fPIC -DPIC -o foo.o foo.c Jan 10 22:50:13 Next part to assemble the .so: $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -shared -Wl,-soname,foo.so -o foo.so foo.o Jan 10 22:50:54 the second would have really a variable that has a list of many foo.o foo2.o etc usually Jan 10 22:51:04 at the end of the line Jan 10 22:52:23 KEYofR: topic? Jan 10 22:52:28 rwhitby: using delete.org will it make luna use the proxy Jan 10 22:52:28 ? Jan 10 22:53:12 I find the patch that FC has to build jbig-kit as shared instructive. It's a very small and simple package, and the upstream makefile _only_ makes static, and FC adds a patch to there rpm that only changes the makefiles to make shared instead of static. It makes for a perfect example Jan 10 22:53:35 KEYofR, thanks! Jan 10 22:54:11 https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file?file=jbigkit-2.0-shlib.patch&package=jbig-kit&project=home:aljex Jan 10 22:55:05 oh are we making new shared libs for something? Jan 10 22:55:34 KEYofR, it's asking me for a login to view that link Jan 10 22:55:50 destinal-wirc, libGLUES_CM comes with no makefile Jan 10 22:56:00 web view of that patch, probably requires an obs account to see Jan 10 22:56:03 atlanta: Re: delegate.org you need to set up iptables transparent proxy Jan 10 22:56:14 oh ok Jan 10 22:56:23 i was thinking of just using regular commands for it Jan 10 22:56:24 brb Jan 10 22:56:27 destinal-wirc, I linked it static last night but I'm not sure that's what we want Jan 10 22:56:34 jaques nor configure.in? Jan 10 22:56:39 we want shared libs Jan 10 22:57:12 destinal-wirc, you should see it - nothing. it assumes either QNX build env or windows build system Jan 10 22:57:39 it does include some strange XML-looling file for windows, but that's not very useful here Jan 10 22:57:40 lol Jan 10 22:57:48 FINALLY! Jan 10 22:58:32 rwhitby, egaudet: http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/create-sql.sh Jan 10 22:58:49 rwhitby, egaudet: which made: http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/sql.txt Jan 10 22:58:58 timepants: Just out of curiosity.. are you going to release your port of OpenJazz? Jan 10 22:59:01 And now every Makefile is properly in my sql database. Jan 10 22:59:15 so Patch browsing is 90% complere Jan 10 22:59:19 complete.. Jan 10 22:59:20 jaques: why do we need to build it Jan 10 22:59:32 KEYofR, when you said FC before I thought you were referring to Fedora Core - I can just yumdownloader --source if that's the case Jan 10 22:59:33 But you have to have a password to see it.. http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/admin/ Jan 10 22:59:53 dBsooner: hopefully there were not private email addresses in that sql.txt you just pasted ... Jan 10 23:00:02 nope.. sure weren't. Jan 10 23:00:08 cool - looks great. Jan 10 23:00:16 If they are private email addresses, tehy aren't in the Makefile. ;) Jan 10 23:00:16 jacques: FC does mean Fedora, which is where I stole that patch from for my opensuse package Jan 10 23:00:43 destinal-wirc, why do we need to build what? libGLUES_CM ? it will help a lot of GLES1.1 apps Jan 10 23:01:10 KEYofR, great, then I'll download the fedora source package and look at that :-) Jan 10 23:01:18 egaudet: and before you get all upset.. there is a special "STATUS" for Virtual keyboard.. it's Status = 2... Which means, DON'T TOUCH IT.. Meaning don't update the Makefile from the admin panel. Jan 10 23:01:25 crotest has a record function Jan 10 23:01:29 because it's the only Makefile that doesn't follow the standard. ;) Jan 10 23:01:34 jacques but yeah, grab the src.rpm for jibig-kit from fedora and get both the patch and the original source and see if you want Jan 10 23:02:03 oh and the Obsolete packages. Jan 10 23:03:12 rwhitby: I think it took me longer to make the sql.txt file to insert all the data than it would have to just copy/paste everything manually. Jan 10 23:03:26 But then I wouldn't have learned so much. Jan 10 23:03:29 I also found a neat little set of commands to turn an existing .a into a .so Jan 10 23:03:30 dBsooner, I have no idea what that means Jan 10 23:03:43 dBsooner: it always takes longer to automate Jan 10 23:04:07 egaudet: I am making a Web Based Admin system for WebOS-Patches Jan 10 23:04:09 KEYofR, interesting Jan 10 23:04:14 jacques: cool Jan 10 23:06:02 KEYofR, hmm I'm not finding jbig-kit in F12 I might have to look at older versions Jan 10 23:06:18 copy foo.a into a new temp directory like /tmp/foo, then cd into it, then "ar -x foo.a Jan 10 23:06:19 ; gcc -shared *.o -o foo.so" Jan 10 23:06:44 can you extract a suse rpm? you can get my src rpm without any account Jan 10 23:06:48 so just extract the objects from the archive and re-assemble Jan 10 23:07:08 KEYofR, yeah worst case I can use rpm2cpio Jan 10 23:07:21 http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/aljex/openSUSE_11.2/src/jbigkit-2.0-8.1.src.rpm Jan 10 23:07:48 looks like F12 is all about openjpeg Jan 10 23:07:55 ok, screenshots are now in the palm catalog feeds in Preware Jan 10 23:08:10 KEYofR, got it, thanks Jan 10 23:08:25 now, what else is missing that Preware currently supports (e.g. server side change only) ... Jan 10 23:08:39 rwhibty: Hey, cool - so you can check out the App Cat via Preware? Jan 10 23:08:52 s/rwhibty/rwhitby/ Jan 10 23:08:53 freakout meant: rwhitby: Hey, cool - so you can check out the App Cat via Preware? Jan 10 23:08:59 freakout: yep, alpha testing version of Preware and Package Manager Service Jan 10 23:09:24 freakout: you need to keep up on the twitter feed, mate. Jan 10 23:09:46 rwhitby: that's what brought me in here :) Jan 10 23:09:58 freakout: and no-one's reported on it yet .... ;-) Jan 10 23:10:27 even better - let me just fire up the speed dial to the precentral tip line :p Jan 10 23:11:29 freakout: you in boot camp yet? Jan 10 23:11:36 one week to go! Jan 10 23:11:45 tuesday next week, and i will be checking out for 80 days Jan 10 23:12:06 ....long if i get backclassed and have to repeat certain parts. but that ain't gonna happen Jan 10 23:16:13 rwhitby: ipkservice 0.9.30 and preware 0.9.14? Jan 10 23:16:29 freakout: yep Jan 10 23:16:47 preware-bootstrap script and say yes to testing Jan 10 23:16:58 lots of new code, so it's a true alpha Jan 10 23:17:47 * rwhitby considers rouding all prices in Preware (e.g. $4.99 -> $5) Jan 10 23:18:01 i would. Jan 10 23:18:08 * freakout hates that sales tactic Jan 10 23:21:20 with busybox, how can I tell which groups I'm in?> Jan 10 23:21:32 is it possible (legal?) to put android on the pre? Jan 10 23:21:57 sryan: definitely legal Jan 10 23:22:13 possible as well, I'd say Jan 10 23:22:38 I'm starting to feel limited by the old / limited busybox in webos Jan 10 23:23:38 it's a moderately complex, but not impossible, porting effort. Jan 10 23:23:38 freakout: perhaps I'll make it a Preware preference, but keep the raw numbers in the feed data Jan 10 23:23:50 jacques: just install optware things Jan 10 23:23:55 it seems people were working on getting android on the pre back in January but I haven't seen any running demos on development since then Jan 10 23:24:39 january of last year Jan 10 23:24:40 we don't feel lots of need for it Jan 10 23:26:22 if we did port it we could cheat and use palm services to start Jan 10 23:26:46 same opemoko Jan 10 23:27:00 face it, we like the webOS UI better Jan 10 23:27:19 (at least I do) Jan 10 23:27:51 Yeah what I want is the other way around, webos on other hardware Jan 10 23:29:05 I like this app: FreeCaddiePro $14.99 << Pretty free right there. Jan 10 23:29:06 webos UI vs Android UI = no contest Jan 10 23:29:13 KEYofR, me too Jan 10 23:29:21 at least, that's my view from playing with the android emulator Jan 10 23:30:22 so I just got my call from a Palm "specialist" regarding my lost contacts. Partial erase now leaves me with NO EV signal so I can't sign into the phone... is the only option now doctor? Jan 10 23:30:37 its the best and easiest option? Jan 10 23:30:41 it only takes 15 minutes Jan 10 23:33:03 egaudet: using palm profile? Jan 10 23:33:27 freakout, only way unless you meta right? Jan 10 23:33:39 Is the ARM in the pre little or big endian? Jan 10 23:33:41 I want my contacts back Jan 10 23:33:55 zonyl, it runs in little Jan 10 23:34:14 egaudet: I was just wondering - no idea really. I refuse to use them 'cause there's no way to access them except via device. Jan 10 23:34:51 jacques: Thanks. guess that is not my problem then Jan 10 23:34:52 I used the Google EAS support to sync all my PalmOS contacts and calendar events to Google, and then used Synergy to get it all onto webOS Jan 10 23:34:57 yea I won't be relying on the palm profile for contacts after i retrieve them hopefully Jan 10 23:36:02 yep im not relying on palm profile either after losing my tasks, memos, and contacts Jan 10 23:36:58 rwhitby: How do I check the installed version of ipkgservice? Jan 10 23:37:11 is there a syncing solution for tasks/memos... like with gmail or outlook/ Jan 10 23:37:14 changelog in Preware says I'm still on 0.9.29 Jan 10 23:37:17 freakout: in Preware Installed Apps Jan 10 23:37:41 hmm - there's a bug Jan 10 23:38:45 rwhitby: unless the WOSQI install failed somehow, but I don't think so - Preware itself ticked up to 0.9.14 just fine Jan 10 23:38:54 However, I can't see the App Cat feeds Jan 10 23:39:08 freakout: ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed | grep ipkgservice Jan 10 23:39:17 i'm running .30 also but it shows that i have an "update" available for .29 Jan 10 23:40:08 timepants: yeah, looks like there is a bug for same appId in multiple feeds, or later version installed than what's in the feeds. Jan 10 23:40:16 oh i see Jan 10 23:40:39 timepants: can you run the above command Jan 10 23:40:49 sure, sec Jan 10 23:41:17 rwhitby: that above command - works on 1.3.1? Jan 10 23:41:26 has anyone else had a problem with a process called mediaserver taking all cpu even when the device is supposed to be idle? Jan 10 23:41:47 freakout: -o /var for 1.3.1 Jan 10 23:41:49 # ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_in Jan 10 23:41:49 stalled | grep ipkgservice Jan 10 23:41:49 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice - 0.9.24 - Package Manager Service Jan 10 23:41:49 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice - 0.9.30 - Package Manager Service Jan 10 23:42:12 timepants: interesting Jan 10 23:42:37 i guess that explains the update Jan 10 23:42:45 my phone was bog slow at everything, and top showed mediaserever, I killed it, phone got faster, no obvious detriment but I havent done much since then either Jan 10 23:43:14 "Preware alpha test version now has access to App Catalog price information - just need to work out the best way to use it … suggestions?" Jan 10 23:43:20 define "use it"? Jan 10 23:43:48 how to display and sort using it in Preware Jan 10 23:43:55 set it as it's own catogry Jan 10 23:44:01 paid apps Jan 10 23:44:10 dtzWill: anything new with nanoGL? Jan 10 23:44:17 problem is, paid apps have categories too (games etc) Jan 10 23:44:17 free apps, apps under $5, apps over $5 Jan 10 23:44:20 han noooo Jan 10 23:44:27 i've been pooking at it all day today just to make sure it was the problem Jan 10 23:44:33 what outsider said Jan 10 23:44:34 (for the old code) Jan 10 23:44:37 I'd say differentiate it in the listing somehow, then have an option to filter paid apps Jan 10 23:44:53 rwhitby: ipkg -o /var/apps list_installed | grep ipkgservice Jan 10 23:44:56 fails. does nothing Jan 10 23:45:02 freakout: just /var Jan 10 23:45:03 perhaps give it a little banner that said "paid" Jan 10 23:45:04 key: n900 is most likely nonpalm device to try Jan 10 23:45:06 lol Jan 10 23:45:09 or change the color Jan 10 23:45:46 but no multitouch alas Jan 10 23:46:04 or iphone 3gs but no kbd Jan 10 23:46:42 all are cortexa8 Jan 10 23:47:10 change color good. Jan 10 23:47:11 oh, rubbish. -sh: ipkgservice: not found Jan 10 23:47:14 no I definitely want hardware buttons and keyboard. I don't know how iphone users manage, other than by just living in ignorance and denial. Jan 10 23:47:21 Rick_work: is a $4.99 app under $5 ? ;-) Jan 10 23:47:35 rwhitby yes. Jan 10 23:47:41 i agree with AnOutsider Jan 10 23:47:42 freakout: forgot the grep ? Jan 10 23:48:00 but I don't want to scroll through a bunch of apps that cost money to find the free ones.... too many apps Jan 10 23:48:06 perhaps an option to filter out paid apps Jan 10 23:48:14 ya Jan 10 23:48:15 "it looks so pretty, i don't care if it's actually very functional, and since I never use anything else, I don't know what im missing anyways." heh Jan 10 23:48:29 rwhitby: nope. ipkgservice -o /var list_installed | grep ipkgservice Jan 10 23:48:30 [18:48] <+tictac> perhaps an option to filter out paid apps Jan 10 23:48:33 [18:44] I'd say differentiate it in the listing somehow, then have an option to filter paid apps Jan 10 23:48:43 freakout: the command is ipkg Jan 10 23:48:50 i knew that Jan 10 23:48:52 just testing Jan 10 23:48:55 you passed, rwhitby Jan 10 23:49:00 test successful Jan 10 23:49:10 I want to search for apps by _funtion_ , if it's pay it's pay, I need or want it. Jan 10 23:49:16 return 0 Jan 10 23:49:19 * freakout isn't embarrassed. No siree Jan 10 23:49:59 I though the whole reason for homebrew was to avoid palm and having to pay for programs that you don't like. donate when I use a program more then 3 times delete if I don't use Jan 10 23:50:00 ah, lovely Jan 10 23:50:01 KEYofR agreed, but pay is a filter lots of people will want. Jan 10 23:50:02 rwhitby actually pointed to my preware-bootstrap script. :) Jan 10 23:50:07 games are about the only "apps" where there would be a lot of essentially the same "app" where it would make any sense to say just show me the free ones Jan 10 23:50:17 a twitter question: when someone else puts @webosinternals in their tweet, do followers of @webosinternals automatically see that? Jan 10 23:50:18 rwhitby: grep shows both 0.9.29 & 0.9.30 installed Jan 10 23:50:27 rwhitby: no Jan 10 23:50:29 rwhitby: nope Jan 10 23:50:48 Unless they're using tweetdeck or something else that shows a column of @webosinternals tweets Jan 10 23:51:04 * freakout adds it to his uber-palm column Jan 10 23:51:06 dBsooner: that script is the preferred method of alpha testing Jan 10 23:51:16 We need filter to have some checkboxes. Jan 10 23:51:18 It works exactly as I had hoped for. :) Jan 10 23:51:56 it's actually the first thing I do after doctoring. Jan 10 23:52:23 wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap ; sh ./preware-bootstrap Jan 10 23:53:06 If I could work out a good way to pre-install wifi settings, it would be part of meta-doctor ... Jan 10 23:53:37 when you are in a "list of apps" we have a filterfield at the top. There ought to be a command menu button on the right (More) that says: filter this list by name only, Filter this list by name and description Include don't/include paid apps. Jan 10 23:54:06 Rick_work: i figured it would be a preference item Jan 10 23:54:06 Yeah, if you figure that out, be sure to let me know. :) Jan 10 23:54:21 rwhitby: it could be dobe Jan 10 23:54:23 done Jan 10 23:54:47 like in the feeds options.. "Palm feed" Option: "Include non-free apps" Jan 10 23:55:14 no make it generic to all feeds Jan 10 23:56:04 KEYofR: afaik, there arent any other feeds that include non-free apps Jan 10 23:56:24 there's going to be paid apps in preware? Jan 10 23:56:31 tictac: but there could be in the future Jan 10 23:56:39 so? still dumb to make it special instead of generic Jan 10 23:56:56 lol Jan 10 23:57:06 sryan: preware alpha version now includes palm app catalog feeds (catalog, web, beta) Jan 10 23:57:18 you don't shoot yourself in the foot when you have the opportunity not to. Jan 10 23:57:20 1.4 in beta yet? Jan 10 23:57:43 its bad enough being stuck with shortsightedness of others after the fact Jan 10 23:57:49 it's not, but even if it was those who get it would technically not be allowed to tell you Jan 10 23:58:26 i thought it was going to be released to palm beta, which is why i was asking Jan 10 23:58:47 what are you referring to by "palm beta" ? Jan 10 23:59:53 hmm would be neat if you could use the pre while its in usb mode. Jan 11 00:00:04 the feed :P Jan 11 00:00:08 I understand why you cant though Jan 11 00:01:08 rwhitby: the screws have been tightened, eh? Jan 11 00:01:47 freakout: no, that's always been in the NDA Jan 11 00:02:18 tictac: the "palm-beta" feed has nothing to do with getting early access to Palm stuff Jan 11 00:02:26 * freakout *nodnod* Jan 11 00:03:02 http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feed explains the three feeds Jan 11 00:04:20 behold, I am ali2 Jan 11 00:04:25 rwhitby: waitt...question. i just doctored my pre, and it kept all of my homebrew apps! is this a feature in the preware beta that i was unaware of? (although, it doesn't appear as package manager service is running so I can't launch preware successfully, but still awesome) Jan 11 00:04:35 aka wirc is neat Jan 11 00:05:00 knickrox13: if the apps are stored in /media/internal then yes you will keep them as of webdoctor 1.3.1 Jan 11 00:05:07 knickrox13 new feature in the doctor as of 135 Jan 11 00:05:12 .5 Jan 11 00:05:19 right! awesome Jan 11 00:05:26 yep Jan 11 00:05:27 knickrox13: that's just Palm's backup working Jan 11 00:05:38 and it didn't delete your photos or your music. Jan 11 00:05:44 knickrox13: actually, it's just /media/internal being preserved by the doctor Jan 11 00:06:13 which is awesome. but then it is hardcoded into the webos doctor and app catalog to reinstall all official apps? Jan 11 00:06:20 how are patches not wiped out w/ the dr since1.3.5 Jan 11 00:06:29 and yes, we need to work out how to get services running again after a doctoring Jan 11 00:06:34 PATCHES are wiped out Jan 11 00:06:45 do I have to go back to 1.3.1 to do a full erase? Jan 11 00:07:04 GreedyB no. Jan 11 00:07:11 there are a lot of posts on precentral that argue that Jan 11 00:07:25 the posts on precentral are wrong. Jan 11 00:07:27 sslow: they are wrong Jan 11 00:07:41 the doctor restores original files, so patches are obviously wiped out Jan 11 00:07:55 do you think it would be a good idea for preware to force a reinstall of all apps as well? like the app cat does? Jan 11 00:07:58 there are a lot of posts on a lot of sites that argue a lot of things Jan 11 00:08:05 or is that overkill, and rarely ever something that is needed Jan 11 00:08:21 knickrox13: no. i dont think that would be a good idea. Jan 11 00:08:52 sometimes people are forced to doctor, as i was when i had to return my pre for warranty Jan 11 00:09:02 so I should just do the sym+orange+power? Jan 11 00:09:04 they wouldnt take it with preware or any traces, so i just doctored it Jan 11 00:09:12 Rick_work: no wai! Jan 11 00:09:30 * freakout gets all his inside info via PC forum posts ;) Jan 11 00:09:37 knickrox13 if you want to do a COMPLETE wipe, then doctor, then do a full reset, and when the doctor asks you to spec your palm profile, -lie- so that your backups do not restore. Make up a new email/password. Jan 11 00:10:08 tictac: you need to full erase and then doctor for a complete wipe Jan 11 00:10:27 i had already erased /media/internal prior to that. Jan 11 00:10:42 you want the restore to fail if you do a complete wipe. Jan 11 00:11:57 gotcha. thatll make it actually a factory install Jan 11 00:12:38 brb computer restart Jan 11 00:13:00 rwhitby: what about paid apps Jan 11 00:13:16 sslow: what about them? Jan 11 00:13:28 they cost money, that's one thing about them ;-) Jan 11 00:13:46 if you lie about palm profile how do you get paid apps back Jan 11 00:14:12 hi Jan 11 00:14:39 sslow, you would re doctor, and re download from backup Jan 11 00:14:46 the question was how to get to factory fresh. Jan 11 00:14:55 the auto-restore of backup prevents that. Jan 11 00:15:39 After the upgrade to 1.3.5.1 I had this surprise when I tried to run "mpt 0d" /bin/sh: mpt: not found , how can I reinstall mpt back ? Jan 11 00:16:44 I wish palm just made a palm profile web access so I know exactly what's being restored, and I can delete things at my discretion Jan 11 00:17:23 that wouyld be nice Jan 11 00:17:54 watashi: what are you using mpt for? Jan 11 00:18:07 I need to connect with QPST Jan 11 00:18:21 get EVDO configured Jan 11 00:18:44 watashi: -> mobile-files.com Jan 11 00:19:38 do you have the thread for the missing mpt? I have been on mobile files whole days but havent seen noone talk about mpt being missing Jan 11 00:21:02 Hey puff whats that last word on sdlterm? Jan 11 00:21:52 rwhitby: So I used WOSQI to remove the older versions of PW and ipkgservice, re-install the alphas. working fine now Jan 11 00:22:13 rwhitby: The worst thing? I can now see all the USA apps that have thus far been denied to GSM Jan 11 00:22:20 They mock me Jan 11 00:22:39 freakout: but you can now get access to those in the web channel ... Jan 11 00:23:03 rwhitby: yep, that is indeed cool Jan 11 00:25:28 Hmm - so if twitter doesn't automatically show @webosinternals stuff to others, I guess I need to RT more often ... Jan 11 00:26:36 rwhitby: you want to take a look at something with me? Jan 11 00:26:49 rwhitby: Why do you think I ask you to retweet all the time? Jan 11 00:27:04 dBsooner: because you're a publicity whore? :p Jan 11 00:27:06 rwhitby: Even though I tag @webosinternals, you have to retweet for everyone to see. Jan 11 00:27:53 * rwhitby needs to read an article on twitter social conventions ... Jan 11 00:28:33 amusing aside. I have a friend who uses Twitter solely for the purpose of communicating within our own circle of friends. I tagged #palmpre & @palm in a reply to him, and he suddely got a bunch of palm fans following him. quite annoyed him actually Jan 11 00:28:55 Today, Palm themselves RT'd him: http://twitter.com/palm/statuses/7609969192 Jan 11 00:29:00 he's screwed now, lol Jan 11 00:29:02 I have copied mpt from webos image and put it to /usr/bin and chomod +x it and here is the output: root@palm-webos-device:/# mpt 0d Jan 11 00:29:02 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"serviceName":"com.palm.usbpassthrough","returnValue":false,"errorCode":-1,"errorText":"com.palm.usbpassthrough is not running."} Jan 11 00:29:02 Pass-through enabled for Dun and Diag Jan 11 00:29:22 * freakout snatches voice back off zsoc Jan 11 00:29:29 ...so find / -name mediaserver shows /etc/event.d/mediaserver and /usr/bin/mediaserver I think this is supposed to be part of html5 media support for the browser? Jan 11 00:29:33 watashi: have you read the PreCentral threads on the matter? Jan 11 00:29:52 things to accomplish in life: wIRCing from a nice restaurant, check. Jan 11 00:30:13 zsoc: lol. Boring dinner companions? Jan 11 00:30:34 I am reading precentral right now but in which forum can I find this topic? Jan 11 00:30:49 egaudet: ping Jan 11 00:31:26 freakout: more boring than present company it seems Jan 11 00:31:37 no idea why it was eating all cpu with no apps running and continuing to eat all cpu (ie: not niced) when trying to use the device too. bogged the pre down to a crawl Jan 11 00:32:01 awesomeness, finally my contacts are restored!! Jan 11 00:32:03 dBsooner, pong Jan 11 00:32:14 just pulling up the launcher, click on anything etc all very slow Jan 11 00:32:37 freakout: nah, good dinner companions. give me my voice back :p Jan 11 00:32:57 * freakout has already eaten it Jan 11 00:33:39 What file format do pre videos have to be in? I'm using mpeg-4 with ffdshow but its not showing up in the list do they have to be named .mp4? Jan 11 00:35:43 Toaster89: I believe so Jan 11 00:35:56 hmm still not showing up :S Jan 11 00:36:07 Toaster89: how are they encode? Jan 11 00:36:18 I use super video converter. Jan 11 00:37:00 and ffmepg for encoding Jan 11 00:37:38 Toaster89: Dunno about them, but I've been using this little doozy: http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-to-iPhone-Converter.htm Jan 11 00:37:53 encodes in h.264, very simple GUI Jan 11 00:37:58 all work perfectly Jan 11 00:38:13 after I click encode though I get 5 options: DIVX, DX50, FMP4, MP4V, XVID Jan 11 00:38:20 okay I will check that out. Jan 11 00:42:11 rwhitby, update all does not handle app cat apps correctly (treats them as homebrew) Jan 11 00:42:30 egaudet: in latest preware? Jan 11 00:42:40 oh, update all, right. Jan 11 00:42:44 yep Jan 11 00:42:48 freakout: what quailty do you use? Jan 11 00:42:50 what is palm-beta ? Jan 11 00:43:02 http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feed Jan 11 00:46:27 egaudet: can you add that to the Trac please, and the other update/replace dependencies problem too Jan 11 00:46:48 the other update/replace problem is in trac Jan 11 00:46:59 want me to add comment to it for this or start new issue? Jan 11 00:48:11 Toaster89: iPhone standard. I figure it's only 320x480 screen, why bother with anything bigger? Jan 11 00:48:20 egaudet: new issue for app catalog interaction Jan 11 00:52:53 done Jan 11 01:00:49 could anyone advice me on how to write nv 1194? what is the command line? PmModemFactory -n write 1194 (how to format my data here?) Jan 11 01:03:46 watashi: in general we don't discuss such modem internals stuff in this channel Jan 11 01:05:40 rwhitby: I do not see the price for palm apps i nthe alpha build 0.9.14. Jan 11 01:05:47 rwhitby, does reading installed package list take noticeable time in Preware? Jan 11 01:05:59 cashen: correct, it's in the feed but not displayed by Preware yet Jan 11 01:06:19 egaudet: that's the "reading status" part Jan 11 01:06:29 so it's generally very quick Jan 11 01:06:32 because I had an idea Jan 11 01:06:37 rwhitby: ah, I misread the tweet i guess Jan 11 01:06:58 to rescan status when Preware is activated back from being minizimed/card view Jan 11 01:07:15 egaudet: interesting idea Jan 11 01:07:45 egaudet: so that app catalog installs are registered ... Jan 11 01:07:59 right , then again it could happen in the background Jan 11 01:08:25 egaudet: we should be able to subscribe to some appmanager service to see that too Jan 11 01:08:26 after preware is already brought back, is there a way to subscribe to the app cat official install service for messages? Jan 11 01:08:32 yea Jan 11 01:10:32 Are there any plans to differentiate homebrew vs. catalog packages? Jan 11 01:10:33 hola, me amigos Jan 11 01:11:08 sorry to jump into the conversation late, but what do you mean, egaudet? Jan 11 01:11:21 as far as the app catalog recognizing the difference? Jan 11 01:11:23 larry: buenos noches senor Jan 11 01:11:34 LarrySteeze, Preware Jan 11 01:11:50 preware knowing the difference? Jan 11 01:11:57 egaudet: the feed already encodes that Jan 11 01:12:02 between installed applications, I'm assuming Jan 11 01:12:21 that brings up a valid question on my part as well Jan 11 01:12:22 LarrySteeze, no preware will be seeing app catalog feeds Jan 11 01:12:30 it's in alpha testing Jan 11 01:12:34 i gotcha now Jan 11 01:12:47 rwhitby, that's only if you select the feed view Jan 11 01:13:17 the app cat seems to be recognizing my installed homebrew apps as apps now...and tried to update one and broke it :P Jan 11 01:13:41 and updated one without breaking it...but I hadn't paid for it Jan 11 01:13:48 I thought that was fixed by palm months ago! Jan 11 01:14:18 LarrySteeze: me too Jan 11 01:14:32 it happened to you, or you thought the same? Jan 11 01:14:44 thought Jan 11 01:14:51 that's not why I came on though...I came on for two reasons Jan 11 01:15:32 one, I need help from someone who has the PC application for converting the palm contacts database Jan 11 01:15:41 egaudet: apart from price, why would one want to differentiate between homebrew and app catalog ? Jan 11 01:15:44 to gmail/outlook/etc Jan 11 01:16:15 rwhitby, I don't care but others may want to know which were reviewed by palm for instance Jan 11 01:16:20 and two, I figured out a workaround to make the active homescreen work...but I need help from people here Jan 11 01:16:28 or ones that are simply from the web etc.. Jan 11 01:16:41 easily notice that without having to switch feed views Jan 11 01:16:44 egaudet: right - the Feed line in the description says that Jan 11 01:17:21 Or have to scroll down through potentially large descriptions to the feed and then having to swipe back etc... Jan 11 01:17:26 most specifically, I believe I need your help, rod Jan 11 01:17:38 rwhitby: good point. sometimes I think with the term homebrew some people think of inferior quality -- it makes me want to use a different term.. after all, lots of quality linux projects (and at least some time in the past) linux as well Jan 11 01:17:44 It's something I see many people being interested in, an easy visual way to differentiate Jan 11 01:17:54 would be considered "homebrew" Jan 11 01:18:25 LarrySteeze: state the workaround, and we'll see what can be done with it Jan 11 01:18:33 alright... Jan 11 01:19:17 this isn't the cleanest way to do it, and would end up being a data hog Jan 11 01:19:26 destinal: right - the "quality" of an application cannot be discerned from the feed or the price or the license Jan 11 01:19:47 but basically, it would require a background updated at a set interval, pulled from a remote site Jan 11 01:20:11 the images would be generated by said site Jan 11 01:20:28 downloaded to the device, etc Jan 11 01:20:59 the pre itself would have both an app and a service. The app would simply be a frontend for the site to help design the homescreen Jan 11 01:21:19 the service would be to mediate the downloading/updating of the background Jan 11 01:21:35 that's the only way we can do it without changing the OS itself Jan 11 01:21:54 and adding code to the linux that runs it Jan 11 01:22:57 depending on the number of users who utilize it, however, it could be a killer bandwidth hog, and a big resource hog as well, for the server Jan 11 01:23:42 LarrySteeze: I personally don't see the need for a home screen, but if you wanted one couldn't you run the app to generate it on the device? Jan 11 01:24:18 destinal: as weatherman does today Jan 11 01:25:29 it seems like processing power to create an image is small (no more than creating one to put on the screen plus a little disk) Jan 11 01:25:32 you could, but if it was generated on the device realtime, it would be a battery hog...not to mention, the number of "templates" and such that could exist would be ever expansive Jan 11 01:25:45 I think your radio would be much more a battery hog Jan 11 01:25:56 point taken Jan 11 01:26:32 ideally, i would just bake it into the OS itself Jan 11 01:26:34 the question though would be how could you make it interactive? how do you put icons on it cet Jan 11 01:26:34 morning all Jan 11 01:26:35 etc Jan 11 01:26:57 that's the thing Jan 11 01:27:06 you would have to position everything within the app Jan 11 01:27:25 you couldn't actually "click" on anything, except within the app Jan 11 01:27:45 zsoc: Good morning! Do you have any experience with SFont? Jan 11 01:28:10 * zsoc wonders if you could somehow encode a jpeg to 'trigger' an sdl surface (think: jpeg virus) and set that as your wallpaper Jan 11 01:28:42 zonyl: SFont? Isn't that for uh.... looking at fonts? Jan 11 01:29:04 well a service to update the background, and then... maybe.. this would be kind of hackish Jan 11 01:29:17 listen to hidd for clicks on the screen Jan 11 01:29:42 zsoc: Yep. I wrote a simple widget to get hostname which works great on ubuntu, but fails to display the text on the Pre (input work though). Wondering if you had an idea? It uses SDL_Image in the process Jan 11 01:29:43 where do you download preware? Jan 11 01:29:48 try to determine if any apps are up and if not assume it clicked on the wallpaper Jan 11 01:30:03 I have a website bookmarked I use for that. I just type in a phrase and it generates that phrase in a ton of fonts (And lets me filter by various font nuiances) Jan 11 01:30:10 install.preware.org takes me to the forums :S Jan 11 01:30:16 then you could launch mapped apps Jan 11 01:30:25 with arguments passed to it if need be Jan 11 01:30:28 Toaster89: what do you mean download preware? that forum post tells you how to install it. you mean you want the source? Jan 11 01:30:43 zonyl: you might need to use the sdl-ttf library Jan 11 01:31:05 that's a good solution except if it is listening at such a constant rate, it may be a battery hog Jan 11 01:31:07 oh no I just want to install it :P Jan 11 01:31:08 I'll read Jan 11 01:31:13 zonyl: afaik libsdl-ttf is the only way to use truetype fonts in sdl Jan 11 01:31:17 being that it is a service, and not part of the gui os Jan 11 01:31:20 *os gui Jan 11 01:31:20 Toaster89: do you have linux command line access? Jan 11 01:31:28 zsoc: Was thinking of that. Have you used that on the pre yet? Jan 11 01:31:29 LarrySteeze: well hidd doesn't work by constant polling Jan 11 01:31:43 you don't poll it Jan 11 01:31:44 gotcha Jan 11 01:31:46 it sends you events Jan 11 01:31:57 zonyl: yes i have, and i know it works, but i've not directly coded anything using it, just implemented other things that use it Jan 11 01:32:28 you know something I wish my pre had, speaking of services? I wish I had a "task/service manager" Jan 11 01:32:31 the biggest thing I don't know is how you detect whether something is covering desktop Jan 11 01:32:48 ok. Ill give that a shot next. I am in the process of uploading my code to git, so other folks can have a go at it as well if they want. Jan 11 01:33:06 that is certainly some detective work Jan 11 01:33:10 LarrySteeze: for the service part there's an upstart service being worked on that would get calls to it wrapped in a mojo app Jan 11 01:33:13 destinal: we really just need to make a evas-based OS that your webos device boots into, and load Luna as an application in that _other_ OS, that would fix everything :> Jan 11 01:33:47 zsoc: I think Luna would take exception to such manhandling :P Jan 11 01:33:52 lol Jan 11 01:33:57 destinal: nah, she's used to it ;) Jan 11 01:34:28 * zsoc misogyny++ Jan 11 01:34:44 does anyone know specifically *why* webos takes so long to boot, by the way? What, specifically, is the biggest time hog? Jan 11 01:35:18 LarrySteeze: Well, start your phone. Everything before the "pulsing logo" is before the GUI. Once the pulsing logo starts, that's mostly Luna. Jan 11 01:35:22 LarrySteeze: you can "stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr" to kill it in upstart and start sysmgr foreground Jan 11 01:35:31 Had anyone decoded the touchscreen protocol /dev yet? I thought that was still elusive and an obstacle to getting something other than Luna as a host. Jan 11 01:35:35 I know it's luna Jan 11 01:35:37 then you can see all the updates Jan 11 01:35:46 as it boots and what takes what amount of time Jan 11 01:35:50 but what I mean is what within luna takes so long Jan 11 01:35:53 aha Jan 11 01:35:55 there's lots of things Jan 11 01:36:06 LarrySteeze: In my opinion, luna boots pretty quick Jan 11 01:36:09 my contacts should still be there after the doctor right? Jan 11 01:36:13 LarrySteeze: tail -f /var/log/messages while it's booting Jan 11 01:36:24 in my experience, luna is what takes the majority of the time Jan 11 01:36:36 lots of luna debug comes out if you start it from the commandline .. Jan 11 01:36:40 it has times for stuff too Jan 11 01:36:45 so you can watch it all Jan 11 01:36:50 zonyl: the touchscreen protocol /dev stuff isn't what you want generally iMO Jan 11 01:36:53 rwhitby: do you think there's a way to 'profile' for upstart on webos? Jan 11 01:36:58 zonyl: what we need is to learn how to use hidd Jan 11 01:37:05 zsoc: bootchart support is on the device Jan 11 01:37:10 Also webOSquickinstall isnt finding the webOSdoctor which is in the same folder. Jan 11 01:37:13 so is oprofile Jan 11 01:37:15 and I find myself rebooting somewhat often to clear my services and such running...my battery seems to die WAY too quickly after certain apps are used Jan 11 01:37:23 Toaster89: Do you have command line access? Jan 11 01:37:28 today it started losing 1% a minute Jan 11 01:37:39 zsoc for the pre or for windows? Jan 11 01:37:44 quicker, actually Jan 11 01:37:54 bpadalino: has anyone played with anything like that? I'm not specific enough with the functionality to know exactly how it works Jan 11 01:38:10 LarrySteeze: memory leaks, we just need better programmers ;) er.. well not us... Jan 11 01:38:22 hidd talks to the hardware and each device has its own custom plugin / "driver" Jan 11 01:38:29 Toaster89: command line access in/to your phone. Like novaterm Jan 11 01:38:32 and hidd is a service on the bus Jan 11 01:38:41 and LunaSysMgr talks to it there Jan 11 01:38:46 Toaster89: just follow http://install.preware.org/ Jan 11 01:38:57 rwhitby: he claims to be following those instructions :P Jan 11 01:39:00 yeah I am Jan 11 01:39:39 when I run WebOSQuickInstall it asks to download webOSdoctor which I already downloaded dont really want to do it twice. Jan 11 01:40:02 Toaster89: you will need to read the webos quick install documentation then Jan 11 01:40:08 ok will do Jan 11 01:40:08 Toaster89: verify it's in the same folder? the easiest way is to have both wosqi and the doctor image on your desktop Jan 11 01:40:16 yeah it is in the same folder Jan 11 01:40:24 it has a weird name though Jan 11 01:40:28 webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar Jan 11 01:40:30 zsoc: I'm familiar with that. Unfortunately, I think the biggest offender for me has been the flashlight app by PreGame...who is "one of us" Jan 11 01:40:53 * LarrySteeze will biab...chopping garlic for the wifey * Jan 11 01:40:56 should I rename it to just webOSdoctor? Jan 11 01:41:15 oh that works :) Jan 11 01:41:41 :) Jan 11 01:41:49 LarrySteeze: Saddly, I have found a lot of strdup Jan 11 01:41:59 LarrySteeze: in the code I have been porting Jan 11 01:42:39 LarrySteeze: biggest offender how? Jan 11 01:43:00 oh memory leaks? Jan 11 01:43:10 Tons.. Jan 11 01:43:45 zonyl: what are you porting? Jan 11 01:43:53 did anyone else miss this? http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/223594-compiling-sdlgnuboy-native-webos.html Jan 11 01:43:59 vnc client Jan 11 01:44:28 LarrySteeze: what do you believe is implicating the flashlight app ? Jan 11 01:45:19 rwhitby: I missed it Jan 11 01:45:27 destinal: zonyl has the SDL_vnc library, and has a simple SDL gui app to drive it. Jan 11 01:46:19 ah Jan 11 01:46:21 cool Jan 11 01:46:23 Oh god. People are going to start distributing roms on p|c Jan 11 01:48:26 zsoc: yep, you can see that happening without doubt. Jan 11 01:48:53 rwhitby: GPL violation? Jan 11 01:49:32 rwhitby: why are so few people interested in intellectual property? I mean I understand the idea of "pirating" music or videos, but openly _distributing_ is just so obviously unethical to me. Jan 11 01:50:14 zsoc: People like free stuff. Simple as that, really Jan 11 01:50:44 zsoc: and it's a lot easier to distance youself from the moral consequences when you're just clicking buttons on your computer Jan 11 01:50:48 freakout: yes, that's the bit about pirating, but _distributing_ free stuff. packaging it up and putting it on forums/feeds. it should just be glaringly obviously how illegal it is. Jan 11 01:50:51 rwhitby: I haven't looked at the flashlight service itself. In fact, I can't even guarantee that it's that app..it may just happen to be that when I use that app, I use other apps that also suck the battery Jan 11 01:51:04 rwhitby: I mean he posted a binary, but not his modified source code Jan 11 01:51:08 well apparently jefferson and washington supported it.... so its ok. (total sarcasm) Jan 11 01:51:09 zsoc: People like to be popular, too Jan 11 01:51:23 freakout: ha :) Jan 11 01:52:10 aww i'm working on a a gb emulator right now :( Jan 11 01:52:12 heh, but looks like he used the palm-game-fix script I wrote to fix up the ipkg, cool Jan 11 01:52:31 LarrySteeze: are you saying it's the app, or just the fact that an LED is using power, that is sucking the battery? Jan 11 01:52:39 back to my original question though...does anyone happen to have the free version of the app that converts the contacts database to one readable by outlook/gmail? Jan 11 01:53:06 rwhitby: I only tend to use the LED for a short period of time. I feel like the service continues to run after I close the app Jan 11 01:53:14 who are these people writing apps and compiling them Jan 11 01:53:16 who ARENT in here? Jan 11 01:53:17 lol Jan 11 01:53:24 lol here's an ifdef in this code "HAS_SDL_BEEN_FIXED_QUESTIONMARK" lol Jan 11 01:53:40 lol Jan 11 01:53:48 dtzWill: I've just invited them ... Jan 11 01:53:54 dtzWill: just seems silly right? I mean you found this place very quickly :) Jan 11 01:54:07 I'm going to get into trouble...not cooking... Jan 11 01:54:14 zsoc: i came here before i started doing anything. that and the wiki :) Jan 11 01:55:14 zsoc: LOL @ ifdef Jan 11 01:55:31 yeah i was making a more general library that could be used for a few emulators :( Jan 11 01:55:54 zsoc, that's the culture around all other phones Jan 11 01:56:05 look at the rom scene around android, windows mobile and even blackberry Jan 11 01:56:16 people build roms and distribute code that isn't theirs Jan 11 01:56:46 yuk Jan 11 01:58:01 spotter: I still don't understand why rom building hasn't started with webos Jan 11 01:58:02 doom installing :D Jan 11 01:58:25 LarrySteeze, honestly? cause there's no need based on the way the OS is constructed Jan 11 01:58:31 LarrySteeze: I think it is because it is so easy to patch. Jan 11 01:58:33 you don't have to build a rom to replace parts of it Jan 11 01:59:06 The WM scene would love to have this flexibility. They resort to building binary "kitchens" and such Jan 11 01:59:20 I understand that, but I'm surprised there haven't been any enterprising individuals building prepatched roms Jan 11 01:59:39 ack, dinner Jan 11 01:59:44 Preware probably stemed that as well Jan 11 02:00:00 how big are the quake and doom downloads? Jan 11 02:00:09 *shrug* preware was bound to happen. If it wasn't us, someone else would have done it Jan 11 02:00:54 I mean...preware stemmed from Rod being the first person to start a wiki on the subject...at the same time I was trying to get all the other "initial crackers" to connect via twitter Jan 11 02:00:56 better us. We're honorable. Jan 11 02:00:57 Toaster89: quake controls are 1000000% better than doom. Jan 11 02:01:17 rod obviously not only did a better job, but also had a better idea Jan 11 02:01:25 rwhitby: invited them to irc? :) good call Jan 11 02:01:29 Toaster89: large, you're also downloading a sharewad wad in the background Jan 11 02:01:43 but hey, I do have that dinner to get to, so I'll bbiab Jan 11 02:02:12 er, a shareWARE wad Jan 11 02:02:15 zsoc: maybe we can port the quake controls to doom at some point :) Jan 11 02:02:39 dtzWill: i'm looking into a less buggy/more feature version. maybe lxDoom or PrDoom Jan 11 02:02:49 plus PrDoom is very close to PreDoom ;) Jan 11 02:02:56 er, PrBoom I mean Jan 11 02:03:05 oh no, the pre plus does not have an orange key. It has a white key! 2012 is coming.... Jan 11 02:03:17 zsoc: oh okay, sounds good. i didn't realize it was buggy :( Jan 11 02:03:24 it's called 'blob' in the hiddiag Jan 11 02:03:40 dtzWill: memory issues really Jan 11 02:04:09 cashen: really? I didn't notice that. Weird, especially considering how many commands are given as "orange + yada yada" Jan 11 02:04:12 dtzWill: you should make a wiki like "how to overlay onscreen virtual 'joysticks' using alpha blitting" in the SDL catagory. Jan 11 02:04:23 guess they'll go back to saying "option" instead, like with PalmOS :) Jan 11 02:04:28 rwhitby: my phone is running webos 1.2 Jan 11 02:04:30 freakout: it's the "super" key ;) Jan 11 02:05:07 ameng: right, but you're a special case - 1.2 is not the current or previous release for any carrier that I know about Jan 11 02:05:30 quake is pretty awesome :) Jan 11 02:06:06 destinal: Have you had a go at an SDL patch for pre 1.3.5 ppl yet? Jan 11 02:06:10 rwhitby: the webos-patch feed url is wrong, easy to fix Jan 11 02:06:18 I have the week off, so plenty of time to fiddle with the PRe Jan 11 02:06:45 Also where's that bit of SDL garbage that informs SDL to use GLES 1.1? Need it on the wiki somewhere. Jan 11 02:06:50 ameng: seriously, where is 1.2 coming from? Jan 11 02:07:08 ameng: cause we can easily symlink the feed if it's a real release somewhere Jan 11 02:07:45 zsoc: SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION, and MINOR, SDL_GL_SetAttribute Jan 11 02:07:48 zsoc: but yes it sohuld Jan 11 02:07:51 freakout: SDL did not work before 1.3.5, it's a kernel thing Jan 11 02:07:53 Toaster89: glad you like it :) Jan 11 02:08:57 I've really started to hate guis. I've gone through every gui music player and I've decided now I need to find a CLI one Jan 11 02:08:57 zsoc: ya i know, but destinal made the offer a few days ago... perhaps he knows some special voodoo Jan 11 02:09:10 lol Jan 11 02:09:18 winamp = perfect music player gui Jan 11 02:09:22 freakout: there's probably a way, it would just be ridiculous imo, considering i'm sure 135/140 will come around soon enough Jan 11 02:09:29 ameng: ? Jan 11 02:09:29 holy bad photoshop, http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/preplus/index.html still has the center button it you look close Jan 11 02:09:32 rwhitby: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-patches/1.2/, Jan 11 02:09:44 freakout: the easiest way would be to doctor 1351 onto your pre Jan 11 02:09:46 zsoc: I have only a week before I'm gone for months! i want to play quake now! Jan 11 02:09:55 but the url in preware is 1.2.0 Jan 11 02:09:57 destinal: I'm thinking about it, actually Jan 11 02:10:04 and getting someone to make a sprint palm profile for me Jan 11 02:10:17 freakout: that's your own fault :p you'd have better luck getting dest to hack the webos doctor image you allow you to put 135 on it with no sanity check Jan 11 02:10:19 shouldn't need one Jan 11 02:10:20 ameng: which webos release are you running? Jan 11 02:10:24 zsoc: hey, zune has a great UI! :D Jan 11 02:10:28 ameng: which of these: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Jan 11 02:10:32 freakout: I've run world ready on my sprint pre Jan 11 02:10:32 destinal: I will if I want to try the new official games Jan 11 02:10:35 oh, right Jan 11 02:10:36 yes Jan 11 02:10:39 CoolMatty: Yes! I just need to port it to X ;) Jan 11 02:10:57 destinal: have you run wr 1.3.5 on sprint? Jan 11 02:11:03 dude, if it were possible (along with playing zune pass drm content) I would pay you so much money it wouldn't be funny Jan 11 02:11:12 rwhitby: is there a 1.3.5 world ready already? Jan 11 02:11:17 especially if it could be ported from linux to osx :p Jan 11 02:11:21 destinal: there's a pre-release one Jan 11 02:11:22 CoolMatty: lol, no... m$ has that all locked up Jan 11 02:11:26 I know they do Jan 11 02:11:28 rwhitby: no one there, i use a custom one Jan 11 02:11:30 destinal: sorry, I thought you said the other way around. Jan 11 02:11:32 I just wish they didn't Jan 11 02:11:33 that alone makes it not interest me Jan 11 02:11:41 rwhitby: I've used an older world ready on sprint Jan 11 02:11:45 ameng: so why does that custom one have the wrong version? Jan 11 02:11:53 not 135 Jan 11 02:11:56 lol@ameng's custom webos version, he's the real hacker ;) Jan 11 02:11:57 zune pass is amazing, it just needs osx/*nix client. and support for the pre >.> Jan 11 02:12:08 CoolMatty: Wait for evas Jan 11 02:12:18 evas? Jan 11 02:12:23 CoolMatty: new webos religion Jan 11 02:13:09 rwhitby: there is no 1.2.0? i doubt Jan 11 02:13:42 rwhitby: ok , then how can i change the url manual? Jan 11 02:13:51 palm uses the weirdest method of incrementing OS versions Jan 11 02:14:27 Is there a standard way to append build options to a make file with gnu make? Jan 11 02:14:59 CoolMatty: not when you think about it, according to their changlogs, xx are major releases and xxx are bug fixes and minor updates Jan 11 02:15:10 rwhitbY: how come the Palm Catalog feed only has 982 apps in it? Jan 11 02:15:35 freakout: we haven't looked at it yet, but we know about it Jan 11 02:15:50 lol Jan 11 02:15:57 freakout: we're guessing the other 20+ apps have odd characters in their titles Jan 11 02:16:00 or odd lengths Jan 11 02:16:01 good evening everyone Jan 11 02:16:03 * freakout remembers a time when zsoc felt a little bit left out around here Jan 11 02:16:12 zsoc: then what's x.x.x.Y? :p Jan 11 02:16:21 CoolMatty: that's a SUPER bug fix, ie: fix one tiny thing Jan 11 02:16:27 uh huh Jan 11 02:16:28 :p Jan 11 02:16:30 one thing so important it can't wait till the next thing Jan 11 02:16:59 ameng: I've added the symlink for you Jan 11 02:17:01 it's a 1 mb update to make the exchange people happy so they wouldn't lose business customers :P Jan 11 02:17:10 freakout: i'm not sure what that means Jan 11 02:17:34 rwhitby: it works ,thank you Jan 11 02:18:18 zsoc: neither am I :-) Jan 11 02:18:52 zsoc: way back when, i remember you expressing the feeling to me that some people in here were kinda ignoring you Jan 11 02:19:07 now you are practically leading the charge on a number of fronts ;) Jan 11 02:19:10 freakout: I don't remember that. besides everyone _does_ ignore me, except people who came here after me, and you Jan 11 02:19:16 lol Jan 11 02:19:20 * freakout has backlog Jan 11 02:19:25 freakout: number of fronts? you mean deflecting silly questions so rod doesn't have to bother? ;) Jan 11 02:19:28 i am planning to upgrade to 1.3.5 to catch up with you guys Jan 11 02:19:43 zsoc: lol I don't ignore you Jan 11 02:19:49 freakout: i don't _do_ anything, I just use the word _we_ a lot ;) Jan 11 02:19:57 destinal: joking of course :) everyone here is lovely Jan 11 02:19:58 zsoc: perhaps I should? Jan 11 02:20:01 :P Jan 11 02:20:06 /ignore zsoc Jan 11 02:20:22 just shift+ins ;) Jan 11 02:20:30 nah too much work Jan 11 02:20:52 destinal: lol nah, we're a good team. you tell me how to do things, i do them and take all the credit ;) Jan 11 02:20:53 ameng: if you're running a derivative of the sprint image, then yeah, you should. Jan 11 02:21:20 zsoc: well, all of it that I don't take ;-) Jan 11 02:21:25 zsoc: lol Jan 11 02:21:35 Sometimes I wonder what the other 135 people in here are doing. Jan 11 02:21:42 listening Jan 11 02:21:46 haha Jan 11 02:21:48 Waiting for cool stuff Jan 11 02:21:52 knickrox13: YES! I GOT YOU. LURKER! Jan 11 02:21:53 we idle :( Jan 11 02:21:55 it's cool for me because most of the time I just throw out wild crazy ideas and someone else implements them Jan 11 02:22:08 @palmpre200 that too. Jan 11 02:22:16 bpadalino: you're full of enriching information, especially with math questions ;) Jan 11 02:22:24 Give me a full backup solution or give me a iPhone :) Jan 11 02:22:34 PalmPre200: try an apple store Jan 11 02:22:38 i am starting an idling contest starting tomorrow :P Jan 11 02:22:41 can anyone help me with scratchbox? I'm using the Doom tutorial to port sdl apps to the Pre and when I get everything setup and 'make' it compiles into fbgnuboy instead of sdlgnuboy Jan 11 02:23:05 destinal: that's why I started this project in the first place. still waiting for someone to do the global meeting time scheduling app that understands that daylight savings does not happen everywhere at the same time of the year, and that there are 0:15 timezones, and there is a GMT+13:45 timezone. Jan 11 02:23:17 Garrett92C: welcome Jan 11 02:23:38 Any updated word on WebOSRepair.. My app catalog is FRIED! and google thinks I am in France Jan 11 02:23:52 Oh my, a makefile that circumvents x86 asm with a flag. what a genius idea. Jan 11 02:23:59 Garrett92C: do you guys have a source code repository set up anywhere? we can offer you space on git.webos-internals.org if you're interested Jan 11 02:24:15 PalmPre200: -> Jason Jan 11 02:24:19 Garrett92C: there's probably an SDL flag Jan 11 02:24:34 @rwhitby - Thx Jan 11 02:24:41 i was thinking of setting up a repository on my empty domain, but hosting it with you guys would be easier lol :) Jan 11 02:24:47 PalmPre200: the google france thing is normal, it's a sprint problem Jan 11 02:24:55 PalmPre200: what's wrong with your app catalog? Jan 11 02:24:55 SDL flag? Jan 11 02:25:27 Garrett92C: there's probably some code in the makefile that defaults it to fbgnuboy unless you tell it you want to use SDL Jan 11 02:25:28 Garrett92C: see /msg for access details Jan 11 02:25:47 rwhitby: if i were to create a new project--that's something i have to bug you about right? i'm not ready yet just wondering for the future :) Jan 11 02:26:02 dtzWill: yeah, just for the repo creation Jan 11 02:26:07 rwhitby ok Jan 11 02:26:14 rwhitby: kk ty i'll let you know then :) Jan 11 02:26:17 dtzWill: destinal and jacques can do it too Jan 11 02:26:18 rwhitby: why is Twitter: @webosinternals on the topic twice? Jan 11 02:26:27 @zsoc - The App Cat still has the Beta Banner, all Pic / Icons are gone and it says 'Palm has not reviewed this application' ' Beta Application' Jan 11 02:26:29 dtzWill: I believe there's a folder for non-working stuff where you can add a project... but you know about that probably Jan 11 02:26:35 PalmPre200: ouch, weird Jan 11 02:26:36 tictac: Cause it's too awesome for just one? Jan 11 02:26:56 zsoc: well i didn't wanna fill up the cross-compile.git with my stuff hehe. Jan 11 02:27:02 lol Jan 11 02:27:06 zsoc: but if that's where people think these things should go then thta's cool Jan 11 02:27:14 it's ok, donations = server space ;) Jan 11 02:27:22 rwhitby: guesstemate how long till official release of PW 0.9.14? Jan 11 02:27:42 freakout: indeterminate - it's new code, so needs testing. Jan 11 02:27:59 rwhitby: okeydoke then, i'll settle for a generic "available soon-ish" Jan 11 02:28:14 or furthermore, anyone encounter any bugs? ive been using it all day (web os doctored so i had alot of experience) Jan 11 02:28:27 i like the setup, and even more i like the ability to tell preware later on a luna restart Jan 11 02:28:31 freakout: there are a couple of issues with the "Update All" functionality - everything else should be fairly stable Jan 11 02:28:34 app catalog setup* Jan 11 02:28:43 * freakout used Update All on install Jan 11 02:28:51 which rocks, btw - nice work rwhitby & oil! Jan 11 02:28:58 (if oil in fact had anything to do with it) Jan 11 02:28:59 I didnt even know that was included in .14 Jan 11 02:29:29 rwhitby: you want me to include a link to the testing feed? Jan 11 02:29:50 dtzWill: in general we generate a separate repo for the source, and just use non-working for the makefile that builds the source in our environment Jan 11 02:29:53 hmm my gmail contacts wont sync it says wrong username/password each time I try even though its the right password and username. Jan 11 02:30:18 I just want to say Jan 11 02:30:24 rwhitby: I love you. Jan 11 02:30:27 destinal: I love you. Jan 11 02:30:34 me too Jan 11 02:30:54 freakout: link to the wiki page, and the instructions for alpha testing are the last three lines Jan 11 02:30:55 Did I tell you guys I'm engaged? Jan 11 02:30:59 I'm embarrassed there are +v's here I don't even know. Jan 11 02:31:03 rwhitby: understood. thanks. Jan 11 02:31:17 freakout: but be sure to say that it is a real alpha, not a new beta. Jan 11 02:31:18 rwhitby: gotcha. LarrySteeze: congrats... but weren't you just saying "wife" earlier? Jan 11 02:31:19 you need tester? Jan 11 02:31:38 rwhitby: oh that reminds me. i'm building a few libraries that others might have use for. and seems to make sense to share them as part of the cross-compile setup, as an option or something. Jan 11 02:31:51 rwhitby: but so they're integrated and people don't re-do work, etc Jan 11 02:31:58 when I said "wifey" it was more of a reference of someone who i'm "stuck with" and not in a negative way Jan 11 02:32:10 rwhitby: do you have any thoughts on how libraries that ARENT already on the pre should be handled? Jan 11 02:32:15 dtzWill: agreed Jan 11 02:32:31 LarrySteeze: :) yeah I remember, you stopped by the channel the night you got engaged Jan 11 02:32:35 dtzWill: we're going to install them in /usr/local, mounted from /var/local Jan 11 02:32:39 I mean i've been engaged for a bit now (november 1st), I just don't remember if I told everyone Jan 11 02:32:40 LarrySteeze: ain't love grand? Jan 11 02:32:41 aha Jan 11 02:32:49 honestly, yes. Jan 11 02:32:52 rwhitby: i'm ignoring how we package them; for now anyway, since i figure we can just set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH/-Wl,-rpath (whatever the name for where it finds libs dynamically) for that. Jan 11 02:32:59 rwhitby: yes, okay. that's what i was doing for now. Jan 11 02:33:08 especially since I moved to boston, and I met her only a week after moving here Jan 11 02:33:14 true destiny Jan 11 02:33:24 I'm a firm believer in it :) Jan 11 02:33:38 rwhitby: btw the cross-compile setup is becoming pretty excellent Jan 11 02:33:42 oh great Jan 11 02:33:58 dtzWill: we'll use postinst to install the libs, and the --rpath /usr/local/lib to find them at run-time Jan 11 02:34:03 *hates splash screens that have alwaysontop enabled* Jan 11 02:34:16 rwhitby: oh you meant /usr/local/lib on the phone--that's empty? Jan 11 02:34:22 yep Jan 11 02:34:33 and it matches our sb2 env, so is really hand Jan 11 02:34:34 y Jan 11 02:34:43 rwhitby: so it is. great. well good, that works gloriously then Jan 11 02:34:52 but yeah, does anyone have that program I was talking about earlier that converts the data file? Jan 11 02:34:57 *database Jan 11 02:35:32 Garrett92C: so the first thing is to help you get the work-in-progress code into the git repository, then we can look at it and help you get it working Jan 11 02:36:48 dtzWill: are you talking about zenity or timidity by any chance? Jan 11 02:36:59 zsoc: i am not. for now just libSDL_gfx Jan 11 02:37:09 dtzWill: ah, also very useful :) Jan 11 02:37:38 is there any point to webgl now since sdl is available? Jan 11 02:37:58 LarrySteeze: not that I know of Jan 11 02:38:01 rwhitby: could you create a repo for visualboyadvance .. somewhere? Jan 11 02:38:13 Where is the Alpha Preware? Jan 11 02:38:38 dtzWill: games/visualboyadvance ? Jan 11 02:38:58 pre powerful enough for a ps1 emulator? Jan 11 02:38:58 rwhitby: that's fine. nothing will try to build it for a while will it? Jan 11 02:39:04 no Jan 11 02:39:11 rwhitby: b/c i'm not ready for that. lots of rewriting to make it better :D Jan 11 02:39:14 dtzWill: that's why we keep it separate Jan 11 02:39:16 rwhitby: okay that's great Jan 11 02:39:21 sryan: sdl and webgl have very little to go with each other. sdl lets you access opengles, but i doubt palm is going to tell developers to go learn sdl, webgl will probably be used as a js wrapper (considering webos devs already use js for everything) Jan 11 02:39:24 rwhitby: tyvm--that sounds perfect Jan 11 02:39:37 dtzWill: one repo to do all the work, then you tag that and tell the build repo which tag to build from Jan 11 02:39:41 sryan: ps1 was also 33mhz, iirc Jan 11 02:40:35 yeah the pre has a better cpu and graphics card then the PSP Jan 11 02:40:38 rwhitby: oh, right. great ty Jan 11 02:40:42 blogged: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/10028/preware-adds-more-%C3%BCber-with-official-palm-app-feeds/ Jan 11 02:40:48 psp has no shader support Jan 11 02:41:03 * freakout goes to have a swim, followed by lunch Jan 11 02:42:04 sryan: using a psx emulator tho requires a bios image, i'm not sure of the legality of that Jan 11 02:42:31 wait, we talking about psp or ps1/psx? Jan 11 02:42:35 ps1 Jan 11 02:42:43 but psp runs ps1 games Jan 11 02:42:52 ah Jan 11 02:42:54 dtzWill: done Jan 11 02:43:59 rwhitby: great ty Jan 11 02:44:15 freakout: you need a more recent screenshot for the little one to the right of the article text Jan 11 02:44:30 * freakout was just thinking the same thing Jan 11 02:44:45 freakout: the twitpics I did would be suitable Jan 11 02:44:50 rwhitby: you'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel Jan 11 02:45:12 freakout: http://twitpic.com/xcpzh Jan 11 02:45:48 freakout: did you tweet that? Jan 11 02:46:09 Well, I hit the "backend update" button that tells twitterfeed we have a new post Jan 11 02:46:31 Twitterfeed is a heap of shite though. Someitmes it'll update in minutes, sometimes it takes hours Jan 11 02:46:34 Not to be a moron, but where is the Alpha so I can try it? Saw the wiki Jan 11 02:46:43 PalmPre200: last three lines on the wiki Jan 11 02:47:27 @rwhitby - duh... Jan 11 02:48:46 rwhitby: updated Jan 11 02:49:20 (the img is cut off, since PIC's style guide specifies images no taller than 160 pixels for the front-page thumbnail) Jan 11 02:52:36 There is just something so cool about being able to use the pre's file system directly Jan 11 02:53:08 yes, there is. Jan 11 02:53:43 I have donated to WebOS and Jason, and I hope there is a future career in this for them! Jan 11 02:54:12 @rwhitby: Ok, couldnt find where I downloaded gnuboy from, so I hosted it on my domain. http://www.choorp.com/palmpre Jan 11 02:54:17 For anyone playing with GL stuff, what in the world is GLU (i assume glide or glu?) and do we have support for it? Jan 11 02:55:14 Garrett92C: thanks - have you made any changes to the source, and what configure and make command lines are you using with our cross-compile.git environment? Jan 11 02:55:31 Garrett92C: have you figured out how to get joystick support working or did you build with nojoy.c ? actually in the case of our SDL joystick would be the accelerometer which we probably don't want anyway Jan 11 02:56:50 me and tag couldnt get the jopystick working Jan 11 02:57:05 Garrett92C: I had the same error building that you did Jan 11 02:57:16 to do that, we modded the config file on 2 lines. lemme get some specifics Jan 11 02:57:18 but again we probably don't even want do use tilt as a joystick Jan 11 02:57:27 Yeah, get rid of joystick support all together. Jan 11 02:57:48 zsoc: glu is the gl utilities, it's kinda an API (there are lots of similar libraries, LOTS) and no we don't have support for it yet Jan 11 02:57:52 zsoc: somoene was working on glues Jan 11 02:57:56 * zsoc says the same thing as everyone else Jan 11 02:58:23 freakout: I bet that accented u in the URL is gonna cause some people problems ... Jan 11 02:58:26 dtzWill: so, it's like a gl extension? In theory... would "support" just mean compiling it? because i might do that Jan 11 02:58:32 @rwhitby - Alpha rocks... good work around for my screwed up app catalog Jan 11 02:58:36 Garrett92C: now when we get bluetooth support going, we'll want to be able to get other kinds of joysticks but I have a feeling we'll be using an alternative joystick input method since we won't want to replace palm-built libs for most folks Jan 11 02:58:53 rwhitby: like your twitter account, for instance? :p Jan 11 02:59:17 freakout: nope, that worked fine. Jan 11 02:59:49 twitter.com's web parsing of URLs broke though Jan 11 02:59:53 changed the filename "joystick.h" to "joystick2.h" on line 2300. line 2344 changed "joy.o" to "joy2.o" so it wouldnt find the files. after doing this it compiled better Jan 11 02:59:55 zsoc: it's a library that basically wraps gl calls to do common things. things like generate shapes.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL_Utility_Library **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 11 02:59:57 2010