**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 14 02:59:57 2010
Jan 14 03:00:01 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: yeah i wasnt trying to say that by switching to a plugin it would be accepted
Jan 14 03:00:02 <Kyusaku> cause using undocumented APIs?
Jan 14 03:00:04 <grndslm> damn, i can't figure this out then
Jan 14 03:00:13 <jettero> rwhitby: I'm fairly convinced the latest incarnation of my patch is robust and bug free...
Jan 14 03:00:14 <grndslm> it has proper java version, so it should at least show up... but it doesn't
Jan 14 03:00:22 <PuffTheMagic> Kyusaku: more like cause it requires access to the fs
Jan 14 03:00:22 <rwhitby> Kyusaku: cause Preware breaks the bright line of the security model
Jan 14 03:00:40 <Kyusaku> grndslm: well what's happening, is it just saying that no device detected?
Jan 14 03:00:58 <grndslm> it doesn't open at a
Jan 14 03:01:00 <grndslm> all
Jan 14 03:01:09 <grndslm> yet webos doctor opens just fine
Jan 14 03:01:19 <Kyusaku> do you have a webos doctor image? named correctly?
Jan 14 03:01:20 <grndslm> so something with java??? yet java 1.6 is installed
Jan 14 03:01:29 <grndslm> no... but it should download that
Jan 14 03:01:33 <grndslm> guess i'll just move one there
Jan 14 03:02:20 <grndslm> nice, kyusaku...
Jan 14 03:02:24 <grndslm> works now... thanks
Jan 14 03:02:26 <Kyusaku> download a WebOS doctor image and rename it to WebOSDoctor.jar and have it in same directory as WOSQI
Jan 14 03:02:34 <Kyusaku> lol ok
Jan 14 03:02:36 <grndslm> dunno why it didn't automatically prompt to download it  :-/
Jan 14 03:02:59 <glorifiedg> my question is, is to easy to hack apps, even the paid ones. how big software devs will be intrested in dev webos apps and games?
Jan 14 03:03:05 <PreGame> i suggested way back when webosqi was still in the 1.0 stage to allow the user to select the directory and name of the webosdoctor
Jan 14 03:03:31 <PreGame> glorifiedg: you have to pay for the app to download it
Jan 14 03:03:37 <PreGame> so if you pay for it why would you hack it?
Jan 14 03:04:15 <PreGame> not to mention the pdk is coming out in a few months which allows c/c++ apps
Jan 14 03:04:27 <glorifiedg> pregame: you can acess pre by ssh copy the dir and share it like warez
Jan 14 03:04:49 <PreGame> you could, but then again palm can also see you have an application installed you didn't pay for
Jan 14 03:05:06 <glorifiedg> NFS is being played in europe as we talk
Jan 14 03:05:42 <PreGame> anyone that charges 6.99+ for a game deserves to get it ripped off
Jan 14 03:05:52 <jettero> pfft
Jan 14 03:05:53 <Kyusaku> lol
Jan 14 03:05:56 <jettero> spurious
Jan 14 03:05:59 <glorifiedg> lol
Jan 14 03:06:06 <glorifiedg> I tink that to
Jan 14 03:06:07 <glorifiedg> lol
Jan 14 03:06:11 <glorifiedg> *think
Jan 14 03:06:35 <PreGame> just so you know the iphone and pc apps are the same way
Jan 14 03:06:51 <jettero> well, they're quite a lot more than $6
Jan 14 03:07:04 <glorifiedg> yes but the public is bigger
Jan 14 03:07:19 <glorifiedg> palm is a very small percent of market
Jan 14 03:07:23 <Toaster23> PC games are getting wayyy to expensive
Jan 14 03:07:38 <grndslm> ok... one more question...
Jan 14 03:07:49 <grndslm> i'm trying to delete the last versin of precaching thru preware
Jan 14 03:07:49 <jacques> yeah, I want a ferrari and I can't afford it, so I should be able to steal one
Jan 14 03:07:49 <Toaster23> I remember buying AOEII when it first came out for 40 bucks and I thought that was pricey and now they are 70 :P
Jan 14 03:07:56 <Kyusaku> DRM on mobile is aggrivating
Jan 14 03:08:12 <Kyusaku> no one wants that
Jan 14 03:08:14 <grndslm> ... but the old version isn't available in preware anymore... so it only gives me to install precaching... but i must remove the old version first!!
Jan 14 03:08:26 <glorifiedg> jacques: that is not a truth metaphore...
Jan 14 03:08:27 <PreGame> if you don't want people to steal or rip off your app then make it fair priced
Jan 14 03:08:43 <PreGame> if an app is fair priced for the quality people will buy it rather than just try and hack it
Jan 14 03:08:53 <glorifiedg> PreGame: I think that too...
Jan 14 03:08:56 <PreGame> i have only purchased one game from the catalog
Jan 14 03:08:58 <jacques> that's stupid
Jan 14 03:08:59 <PreGame> and it was paratrooper
Jan 14 03:09:03 <Kyusaku> Glyder2 is well worth the price
Jan 14 03:09:08 <jettero> "fair price" is pretty subjective.  If you set it too high, more people steal, too low, you lose profits.  I'm sure there's a top of the curve somewhere, and that's where they set the price.
Jan 14 03:09:09 <jacques> you are just trying to justify theft
Jan 14 03:09:14 <PreGame> graphics + game play = well worth the money
Jan 14 03:09:25 <grndslm> i'd pay $10 for that nascar app right now, honestly
Jan 14 03:09:29 <jettero> it's stealing whether they set it "fair" or not
Jan 14 03:09:30 <grndslm> i want a badass app for my pre
Jan 14 03:09:33 <jacques> come up with some stupif reason why it is OK for you to steal
Jan 14 03:09:38 <PreGame> you can't lose profits by setting it to low
Jan 14 03:09:45 <PreGame> if you set it to low MORE people purchase the game
Jan 14 03:09:54 <grndslm> anything above $4 = lost profit
Jan 14 03:09:57 <jettero> but that relationship is non-linear
Jan 14 03:10:07 <Toaster23> 10 dollars isnt that much money PreGame. its a 4th of what PC/Console games cost..
Jan 14 03:10:07 <PreGame> you get people that will purchase the application for .99 but not for 1.99
Jan 14 03:10:14 <zonyl> Ok. The VNC app is all checked in.  Should be working for the most part if you can tolerate 320x480 for now.
Jan 14 03:10:15 <jettero> there's going to be people that think anything more than $0 is too much
Jan 14 03:10:22 <Toaster23> DS games cost 25-30 bucks
Jan 14 03:10:30 <Toaster23> some are even higher
Jan 14 03:10:35 <PreGame> Toaster23: pc/console games have much better controls and much better graphics + it has multiplayer
Jan 14 03:10:43 <PreGame> mobile apps don't
Jan 14 03:10:57 <Toaster23> I think need for speed is worth the 10 bucks i paid for it
Jan 14 03:10:58 <glorifiedg> toaster23: are you kiding me? 10 dolars is about 7.5euros...
Jan 14 03:11:04 <glorifiedg> it's expensive
Jan 14 03:11:07 <Toaster23> yeah thats cheap
Jan 14 03:11:13 <zonyl> zsoc|sleep: Thanks for the idea on using SDL_ttf.  Works much better, however, I noticed that Render_Blended doesnt appear to work.
Jan 14 03:11:21 <Toaster23> PSP/DS games cost WAY more
Jan 14 03:11:25 <PreGame> i will NEVER spend $10 for a mobile application
Jan 14 03:11:43 <jettero> you may not, but thousands of others will
Jan 14 03:11:44 <glorifiedg> pregame: I'm with you...
Jan 14 03:11:44 <Toaster23> and the PSP and DS dont have as nice of hardware as the pre.
Jan 14 03:11:47 <knowyou> just wanted to stop by and say, great job guys
Jan 14 03:11:57 <knowyou> thanks for everything you do
Jan 14 03:12:00 <PreGame> jettero: last i checked i believe only 100 people have downloaded NFS
Jan 14 03:12:10 <glorifiedg> lol
Jan 14 03:12:20 <CoolMatty> PSP/DS games on average also have far more gameplay in them
Jan 14 03:12:25 <glorifiedg> 1000dollars :p
Jan 14 03:12:26 <jettero> 100 paid... a lot more than that downloaded it
Jan 14 03:12:47 * rwhitby suggests this conversation -> #webos-watercooler ....
Jan 14 03:12:50 <jettero> anyway, I'm sure they've worked out the maximum of the price curve...
Jan 14 03:12:58 <zonyl> PreGame: I bought NFS. Not because I like gaming, just because I wanted to see what a 'commecial' game is like and throw some money at EA to validate the platform for future efforts.
Jan 14 03:13:01 <Toaster23> CoolMatty give the game dev's some time and they'll have more content in their games.
Jan 14 03:13:09 <PreGame> a developer for that game costs way more than $1,000
Jan 14 03:13:11 <jettero> zonyl: was it worth it?
Jan 14 03:13:18 <CoolMatty> app catalog says 1165
Jan 14 03:13:22 <CoolMatty> for nfs
Jan 14 03:13:45 <zonyl> jettero: I only played the game for about 10 mins.  $10 to thank EA for not ignoring the phone was worth it alone.
Jan 14 03:13:53 <jettero> rwhitby: I ran that updated script on my phone and it seems to be error free (in the -e sense); the url again: http://is.gd/6cIom
Jan 14 03:13:56 <PreGame> EA should stay out of the mobile industry, they let battlefield drag into the dirt and should only stay with console and pc games
Jan 14 03:14:20 <grndslm> soo... how do i uninstall th old version of precaching if only the new version is visible in preware??
Jan 14 03:14:21 <jettero> rwhitby: I'm off to bed though, will check for comments in the morning.
Jan 14 03:14:22 <rwhitby> jettero: thx for that piece of on-topic in the sea of mobile application economics ... ;-)
Jan 14 03:14:43 <knowyou> I bought nfs.
Jan 14 03:14:49 <rwhitby> jettero: that looks good
Jan 14 03:14:59 <CoolMatty> grndslm: if you go to the app it should have 3 options: launch / update / remove. remove is what you want :p
Jan 14 03:15:13 <rwhitby> jettero: you're submitting that patch as gplv2 ?
Jan 14 03:15:17 <grndslm> coolmatty:  that's the point... i don't have that option
Jan 14 03:15:21 <grndslm> but the app is clearly still on my pre
Jan 14 03:15:33 <CoolMatty> does it appear in the installed section of preware?
Jan 14 03:16:22 <grndslm> hmm...
Jan 14 03:16:25 <zonyl> rwhitby: I got my final fix into git for sdlvnc.  The basics should work for everyone now.
Jan 14 03:16:50 <rwhitby> zonyl: so I was wondering
Jan 14 03:17:09 <grndslm> CoolMatty:  nope
Jan 14 03:17:27 <rwhitby> zonyl: what about a webOS app front-end, which was able to launch the sdl-vnc library once per connection, and therefore have multiple connections open - a bit like wIRC and channels
Jan 14 03:17:29 <CoolMatty> can you just delete it the old fashioned non-preware way?
Jan 14 03:17:35 <CoolMatty> (orange+tap)
Jan 14 03:17:37 <grndslm> which would be??
Jan 14 03:17:37 <jettero> rwhitby: I'm submitting that patch under whatever license is necessary.  I reliquish all rights to it.
Jan 14 03:17:40 <grndslm> hmm... hold
Jan 14 03:17:44 <rwhitby> jettero: thx
Jan 14 03:18:11 <rwhitby> jettero: I'll add it in now
Jan 14 03:18:12 <grndslm> CoolMatty:  worked
Jan 14 03:18:13 <grndslm> thanks
Jan 14 03:18:17 <dtzWill> rwhitby: i thought that passing arguments to things via upstart was difficult? (i don't actually know; but that's what i was told?)
Jan 14 03:18:18 <CoolMatty> no problem
Jan 14 03:18:19 <jettero> rwhitby: :)
Jan 14 03:18:21 <zonyl> rwhitby: guess I never tried that.. let me see quickly if it can be opened multiple times
Jan 14 03:18:37 <jettero> k, I'm really really going to bed now.
Jan 14 03:18:42 <rwhitby> jettero: thx
Jan 14 03:18:53 <rwhitby> zonyl: imagine a sysadmin with 10 VNC sessions on his Pre ;-)
Jan 14 03:19:08 <zonyl> dtzWill: I wrote my own on-screen way of getting the hostname
Jan 14 03:19:20 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: sprint's network is wincing at the thought
Jan 14 03:19:24 <dtzWill> zonyl: ah, gotcha. what'd you end up using? SDL?.
Jan 14 03:19:49 <dtzWill> zonyl: i'm asking b/c i'm working on VBA and trying to thing of the best way for a rom selector.
Jan 14 03:19:59 <ali1> dtzWill: i got rid of the struct arrays in the shader and it got rid of it on those but there was another 2 with 502
Jan 14 03:20:00 <rwhitby> dtzWill: I'm thinking of an vnc service which takes an argument and launches the sdl exe
Jan 14 03:20:02 <dtzWill> zonyl: rolling my own in SDL/SDL_ttf was about where i left it
Jan 14 03:20:13 <zonyl> dtzWill: Yep.  I wrote it in SDL/SDL_ttf
Jan 14 03:20:28 <ali1> errr
Jan 14 03:20:29 <dtzWill> zonyl: kk, ty
Jan 14 03:20:34 <zonyl> dtz: Just steal the code in the sdlvnc.c
Jan 14 03:20:41 <dtzWill> rwhitby: oh interesting.
Jan 14 03:20:49 <dtzWill> zonyl: i might take a look, good call :)
Jan 14 03:20:54 <dtzWill> ali1: oh bummer.
Jan 14 03:21:01 <ali1> dtzWill: i meant i converted the struct arrays to just regular arrays with this elements and it got rid of 502 on those two we found last night
Jan 14 03:21:05 <ali1> yeh
Jan 14 03:21:15 <dtzWill> ali1: yeah well at least that worked. which two now? :/
Jan 14 03:21:25 <dtzWill> ali1: this library had better be AMAZING :P :D
Jan 14 03:21:35 <zonyl> the input is a bit glitchy though. Not sure why. Seems I get double events from time to time.
Jan 14 03:21:38 <ali1> 283	        UpdateUniform1i(uEnableLight[i]);
Jan 14 03:21:46 <ali1> and 294	        UpdateUniform1i(uTexUnit[i]);	
Jan 14 03:21:57 <dtzWill> ali1: those are arrays of bools. ARGH wtf opengles :/
Jan 14 03:22:08 <dtzWill> ali1: or ints, or some primitive type
Jan 14 03:22:24 <ali1> dtzWill: something like that
Jan 14 03:22:26 <dtzWill> zonyl: okay, i'll keep that in mind. thanks for sharing your code :)
Jan 14 03:23:04 <zonyl> rwhitby: Yep, I can open more than one session at a time.
Jan 14 03:23:10 <dtzWill> zonyl: did you ever try aedGUI? i ported that over but didn't check it in b/c it seemed a little buggy. but it might be useful, idk. i suppose not if you already wrote your UI :)
Jan 14 03:23:24 <zonyl> rwhitby: I have two vnc sessions in two different cards
Jan 14 03:23:56 <ali1> dtzWill: weird thing is they only happen the first time around
Jan 14 03:24:00 <rwhitby> zonyl: then the webOS app can also do things like notifications from the different sessions
Jan 14 03:24:04 <zonyl> dtzWill: Didnt look at that yet.  My UI is nothing all that elegant. Just print to screen and get text input.
Jan 14 03:24:42 <zonyl> rwhitby: I noticed that notifications appear at the bottom just like in any other app, while I was connected.  Palm did some things right ;)
Jan 14 03:24:42 <dtzWill> zonyl: yeah i guess your apps' ui recs are slightly less complicated than mine. kk, thanks though :D
Jan 14 03:25:08 <rwhitby> zonyl: "never miss a thing" - an important part of webOS differentiation, so it had to work.
Jan 14 03:26:28 <zonyl> Im getting the hang of GIT now. Feel so 2010's now ;)
Jan 14 03:27:05 <hlall> zonyl: only git was the thing of a few years ago
Jan 14 03:27:20 <hlall> sorry
Jan 14 03:27:32 <CoolMatty> zonyl: Linus would be proud :p
Jan 14 03:27:32 <rwhitby> hlall: hcg now?
Jan 14 03:27:42 <hlall> i'm stuck in the past ;)
Jan 14 03:28:14 <zonyl> hehe. Yah. It wasnt long ago that I was talking with Michael of SVN at a conference.  Next thing I know everyone is on GIT
Jan 14 03:28:58 <PreGame> when will ares get GIT support?
Jan 14 03:30:05 <rwhitby> PreGame: when I asked they said it was a known limitation that was in high demand, but they couldn't say anything about plans for it.
Jan 14 03:30:44 <zonyl> Im very excited about PDK.  I am thinking of writing a few games now.  I love that I can write once and sell to Palm / Windows / Mac
Jan 14 03:30:45 <PreGame> and what is keeping them from posting that in the forums to my request?
Jan 14 03:31:00 <PreGame> one thing that pisses me off about palm is their lack to inform the community
Jan 14 03:31:40 <PreGame> they just leave users in the wind guessing... if they know that it is a requested feature and they are trying to find a way to support it... then post it to my reply instead of just skipping it
Jan 14 03:32:11 <destinal-wirc> pregame: who and what, sorry
Jan 14 03:32:22 <PreGame> palm sucks
Jan 14 03:32:24 <PreGame> nothing new
Jan 14 03:32:43 <glorifiedg> lol
Jan 14 03:33:11 <PreGame> i have to say thought, you could have a crappy product but have good customer service.  if you have good customer service i will stick with you
Jan 14 03:34:11 <zonyl> Does anyone know of any legal implications of writing commercial apps for Pre and using undocumented API's (PDK) and selling them with your own distribution?
Jan 14 03:35:19 <glorifiedg> good work guys, going to bed now. rwhitby still unsuportably hot in australia yet?
Jan 14 03:35:26 <PreGame> zonyl: their latest EUL changed that so you can create apps and sell them outside of the app catalog
Jan 14 03:35:34 <rwhitby> glorifiedg: nope, it's a nice day today
Jan 14 03:35:56 <dboymgk42> can ne one help I am getting a gen config error when I try to start up preware
Jan 14 03:36:07 <zonyl> PreGame: very nice.  Ill have to dig into that a bit more on their site.
Jan 14 03:37:48 <glorifiedg> nice. europe with the coldest temps of the last 20 years and australia with the highest on the last 30 or something. if there's any sucker who think global warming is false just shut up. eheh. good night everybody
Jan 14 03:38:04 <dtzWill> ali1: so they get bound correctly on subsequent passes?
Jan 14 03:38:17 <ali1> dtzWill: maybe?
Jan 14 03:38:36 <dboymgk42> did anyone get my message
Jan 14 03:38:40 <ali1> i mean if it were supposed to mess up on every frame, it would barf out 1282
Jan 14 03:38:45 <ali1> but it does it once
Jan 14 03:40:23 <destinal-wirc> glorifiedg: it's global warming AND cooling, we're all gonna die
Jan 14 03:40:34 <destinal-wirc> ok back on topic
Jan 14 03:41:30 <zonyl> I was playing a bit with Mono on the pre. Wrote a couple of C#/GTK apps and was surprised how well that worked.
Jan 14 03:42:53 <PuffTheMagic> zonyl: how did u run GTK with out Xorg
Jan 14 03:43:04 <PuffTheMagic> is filecoaster still kickin? i havent heard it mentioned in a long time
Jan 14 03:43:05 <zonyl> PuffTheMagic: I have Xorg.
Jan 14 03:43:26 <zonyl> PuffTheMagic: I use my vnc client to connect to Xtightvncserver
Jan 14 03:43:43 <zonyl> PuffTheMagic: Thus I have X in a card ;)
Jan 14 03:44:33 <zonyl> I stunned some folks in our office today showing them our Windows software running on my phone via Mono.
Jan 14 03:48:22 <knowyou> yeah preware pretty much killed filecoaster... I held out for awhile, but to no avail ;)
Jan 14 03:48:32 <zonyl> I had a good laugh earlier in the week when someone was showing off the latest Fennec (firefox mobile) in WinMo.  I loaded iceweasel, showed that, and stole the crowd.
Jan 14 03:49:38 <ali1> dtzWill: hmm... that uniform_loc function is called on every shader program, right?
Jan 14 03:51:06 <dtzWill> ali1: you should only have to get the locs once, but once per shader program yeah
Jan 14 03:53:24 <destinal> zonyl: yeah mono has been done a bit on the pre before, but no gui.  it would be interesting to use it to write services too but I guess with java and c it's not exactly *needed*
Jan 14 03:55:09 <zonyl> destinal: Most of my recent dev experience is with C#, so naturally tried out some things with it.   I am also re-writing some home automation software in mono for the last year or so that I am now trying to extend to the pre as well.
Jan 14 03:55:41 <destinal> zonyl: does mono work with sdl?
Jan 14 03:55:58 <destinal> that would  be cool too
Jan 14 03:56:07 <zonyl> zonyl: Never checked, that would be nice!
Jan 14 03:56:33 <zonyl> destinal: I was initially trying to get FBdev working.
Jan 14 03:56:33 <destinal> I'd like to port OCTGN which is a C# app for playing magic the gathering and other collectible card games
Jan 14 03:57:42 <zonyl> destinal: unless you have the source, it would be difficult to do anything with it.
Jan 14 03:58:07 <zonyl> destinal: I had to convert my System.Windows to use GTK#.
Jan 14 03:58:28 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: im gonna make python bindings for the service stuff
Jan 14 03:58:32 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: lisp bindings too prob
Jan 14 03:59:25 <RxS2k> Can anyone help me out? I screwed something up when I was in terminal and I tried rebooting before remounting. now I'm stuck at the palm logo.
Jan 14 04:00:10 <PuffTheMagic> reboot again
Jan 14 04:00:30 <RxS2k> I have tried rebooting like 3 times.
Jan 14 04:00:47 <Kyusaku> did you pull the battery?
Jan 14 04:01:04 <RxS2k> I did.
Jan 14 04:01:22 <rwhitby> RxS2k: what did you screw up in terminal?
Jan 14 04:02:22 <RxS2k> Well, I'm a bit embarassed but I was folliwing the commands I found here http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/221374-smartreflex-not-playing-nice-1-3-5-a.html
Jan 14 04:02:49 <keith> you should see your Pre cycle and the UI comes up, if not then something is wrong.
Jan 14 04:02:56 <keith> something must be wrong
Jan 14 04:02:56 <keith> :P
Jan 14 04:03:24 <destinal> Looks like Luna is broken
Jan 14 04:03:30 <RxS2k> damn it.
Jan 14 04:03:43 <psykoz> is the webos repair utility up to date?
Jan 14 04:03:48 <destinal> based on the no flashing logo and those commands, it's my guess anyway
Jan 14 04:04:09 <destinal> interesting, it just forces constant turbo mode
Jan 14 04:04:15 <rwhitby> RxS2k: it's likely that you have a low margin processor and it's crashing
Jan 14 04:04:19 <destinal> by making it set 600mhz when going into and coming out of
Jan 14 04:04:24 <destinal> rwhitby: no I don't think so
Jan 14 04:04:34 <rwhitby> RxS2k: can you connect with novaterm?
Jan 14 04:04:35 <destinal> rwhitby: Palm uses 600 mhz for all games now
Jan 14 04:04:45 <RxS2k> I am connected with novaterm
Jan 14 04:04:58 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, and lots of people are having problems with crashing games ..
Jan 14 04:05:01 <destinal> all this patch does is force it being used in and out of games, shouldn't be any more of a problem than playing a game for a while
Jan 14 04:05:05 <destinal> rwhitby: oh really?
Jan 14 04:05:29 <destinal> rwhitby: I think it's more likely he damaged the LunaSysMgr executable while sed'ing it or didn't move it in correctly or didn't get the perms right
Jan 14 04:05:36 <destinal> RxS2k: can you novaterm in?
Jan 14 04:05:41 <RxS2k> rwhitby I've been running at 600 since b4 1.3.5 without issue
Jan 14 04:05:49 <rwhitby> RxS2k: oh, you were sedding the binary?
Jan 14 04:06:09 <destinal> RxS2k: novaterm should still get you a shell
Jan 14 04:06:11 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, much more likely to be the cause
Jan 14 04:06:12 <destinal> even without Luna
Jan 14 04:06:34 <rwhitby> RxS2k: doctor it.
Jan 14 04:06:38 <RxS2k> What do I do from here?
Jan 14 04:06:50 <rwhitby> RxS2k: go through the pain so you're more careful next time ;-)
Jan 14 04:06:59 <RxS2k> lol.
Jan 14 04:07:15 <RxS2k> c'mon
Jan 14 04:07:23 <RxS2k> is there a fix?
Jan 14 04:07:34 <rwhitby> sure, but the old file back
Jan 14 04:07:40 <rwhitby> s/but/put/
Jan 14 04:07:40 <infobot> rwhitby meant: sure, put the old file back
Jan 14 04:07:52 <rwhitby> you saved a copy, right?
Jan 14 04:08:03 <rwhitby> novaterm in and move it back
Jan 14 04:08:08 <RxS2k> uh... saved?
Jan 14 04:08:10 <jmya> anyone get the 20 off for 24 months yet?
Jan 14 04:08:33 <RxS2k> yes , is saved a copy
Jan 14 04:08:41 <destinal>  mv LunaSysMgr LunaSysMgr.orig
Jan 14 04:08:42 <destinal> mv newlunasysmgr LunaSysMgr
Jan 14 04:08:50 <destinal> so yes
Jan 14 04:09:10 <destinal> RxS2k: you really don't want to run through these kinds of things if you don't really understand what they do
Jan 14 04:09:20 <rwhitby> destinal: betcha it's a case thing - how stupid to make the cases different in that command
Jan 14 04:09:32 <RxS2k> Believe me if I wasn;t adicted to the 600 I wouldnt
Jan 14 04:10:05 <destinal> RxS2k: PuffTheMagic is talking about a service to let you have it controlled in an app
Jan 14 04:10:12 <destinal> so you don't have to hack core  binaries
Jan 14 04:10:41 <RxS2k> i tried running mv LunaSysMgr LunaSysMgr.orig and got no such file or direcotry
Jan 14 04:10:43 <ali1> dtzWill: hmm, when it tries to get the uniform location of light stuff on and after index 2, it gets -1
Jan 14 04:11:01 <roto222> Hey all...I noticed that I have a few packages which still seem to be installed in /var and didn't migrate over to cryptofs...should I be concerned about that all?
Jan 14 04:11:05 <destinal> RxS2k: did you STOP right then?
Jan 14 04:11:21 <RxS2k> I don't think so. :(
Jan 14 04:11:34 <ali1> dtzWill: no actually just uEnableLight
Jan 14 04:11:43 <destinal> in that case it's unlikely you have a backup and you probably DO need to doctor
Jan 14 04:11:46 <dtzWill> ali1: i noticed that as well :/.
Jan 14 04:12:21 <RxS2k> any way to look and see if something like that is still there?
Jan 14 04:12:32 <rwhitby> RxS2k: so you got an error, modifying the most central binary in webOS, and you just kept going?
Jan 14 04:12:46 <Kyusaku> roto222: did you run the emergency migration helper?
Jan 14 04:12:50 <dtzWill> ali1: could we expand the array ourselves? it has a fix length, etc. maybe small performance hit but...
Jan 14 04:12:52 <ali1> dtzWill: did you notice that uEnableLighting and uEnableLight[0] are the same values too?
Jan 14 04:12:55 <RxS2k> lol, yes. I probably did and my dumbass just kept going
Jan 14 04:13:03 <dtzWill> ali1: that is SO strange though.
Jan 14 04:13:06 <dtzWill> ali1: i did not.
Jan 14 04:13:11 <twik> jmyadagod:  yup, got $20/mo off on two lines for 24 months
Jan 14 04:13:13 <rwhitby> RxS2k: seriously mate, you need to run the doctor twice, to knock some sense into your head.
Jan 14 04:13:30 <roto222> kyusaku: yeah, I re-ran it...no change
Jan 14 04:13:32 <psykoz> webos repair utility should catch this for him though (and is it up to date ?)
Jan 14 04:13:37 <RxS2k> Lol, I've got the doctor on speed dial.
Jan 14 04:13:48 <Kyusaku> roto: can you install apps from app catalog?
Jan 14 04:13:51 <roto222> yeah
Jan 14 04:13:52 <rwhitby> psykoz: Jason just pushed a new one today
Jan 14 04:14:02 <Kyusaku> roto222: then no need to worry
Jan 14 04:14:07 <destinal> RxS2k: doctoring doesn't take THAT long, and otherwise you're asking people to take out time that you probably want us hacking on enhancements to the pre instead to try to rescue a borked pre that doctor will fix just fine
Jan 14 04:14:15 <rwhitby> I think 'AM' has just been renamed to 'RxS2k'
Jan 14 04:14:28 <RxS2k> what???
Jan 14 04:14:28 <ali1> dtzWill: you mean instead of an array, just multiple bools of uEnableLight?
Jan 14 04:14:37 <roto222> kyusaku: I'm not having any issues right now, I just didn't want to leave crap around that could cause issues down the road
Jan 14 04:14:40 <psykoz> rxs2k, webos repair utility, but only do that with in mind that if it doesn't work your last option is an actual webos doctor
Jan 14 04:14:59 <rwhitby> RxS2k: webos repair utility (make sure it's the right version), or webos doctor.
Jan 14 04:15:09 <dtzWill> ali1: yes, not that i like it.
Jan 14 04:15:25 <RxS2k> thanks rwhitby. I will try not to fuck up next time.
Jan 14 04:15:34 <RxS2k> there is so much to learn
Jan 14 04:15:36 <Kyusaku> I've started to enjoy doctoring, I wish Palm would save stuff like call logs on the palm profile but meh.
Jan 14 04:15:46 <psykoz> learn linux ;)  then tinker with your palm *grin*
Jan 14 04:15:59 <rwhitby> RxS2k: don't worry, you nick is too hard to type for us to make fun of you for long ;-)
Jan 14 04:16:02 <psykoz> well ignore that being specifically linux, learn solaris, it's better than linux.  Then tinker with your palm ;)
Jan 14 04:16:12 <ali1> dtzWill: yeah that will probably work...
Jan 14 04:16:21 <destinal> RxS2k: it's cool to want to tinker but LunaSysMgr IS the gui
Jan 14 04:16:31 <destinal> that's kind of like open-brain-surgery with sed
Jan 14 04:16:38 <RxS2k> alright, I'll do that.
Jan 14 04:16:52 <RxS2k> well as long as I didn't brick anything...
Jan 14 04:17:05 <psykoz> you have t o really work hard to brick your phone
Jan 14 04:17:09 <RxS2k> I was going to doctor first but where's the fun in that? might as well learn how I fucked up.
Jan 14 04:17:11 <psykoz> don't try to see how much effor tit takes ;)
Jan 14 04:17:13 <rwhitby> destinal: well, half the blame should rest on the people posting those instructions on the forum without even a script wrapping it up into something safe
Jan 14 04:18:00 <RxS2k> I'm just curious as to why someone smart, can't just make the damn patch like b4.
Jan 14 04:18:33 <RxS2k> I mean I understand why the SR doesn't work.
Jan 14 04:18:37 <rwhitby> RxS2k: cause the operation is unstable
Jan 14 04:19:08 <jacques> the ppl who write those damn forum posts should be forced to do the support
Jan 14 04:19:15 <RxS2k> true, but if NFS is running at 600 it must not be too bad.
Jan 14 04:19:27 <RxS2k> yes, I agree to that, They should support.
Jan 14 04:19:40 <rwhitby> RxS2k: yeah, but I bet they're doing extra stuff above what's in the forum
Jan 14 04:19:40 <RxS2k> or write better instructions.
Jan 14 04:19:52 <jacques> oh, rwhitby already said something like that.
Jan 14 04:20:07 <rwhitby> RxS2k: you wouldn't follow the instructions anyway, right?
Jan 14 04:20:09 <RxS2k> life was so different with winmo
Jan 14 04:20:37 * jacques goes back to what he was doing.
Jan 14 04:20:38 <rwhitby> "if you get an error, don't continue" - "oh, I'll skip that line, it probably doesn't matter"
Jan 14 04:20:38 <RxS2k> aww... now that's not cool. I read.
Jan 14 04:20:54 <rwhitby> RxS2k: just ribbing you, man.  it's all cool.
Jan 14 04:21:05 <dtzWill> darn zonyl left, anyone had success running sdlvnc?
Jan 14 04:21:45 <RxS2k> lol
Jan 14 04:21:52 <RxS2k> I know, im not worried,
Jan 14 04:22:21 <RxS2k> getting picked on isnt the worst thing in the world
Jan 14 04:22:49 <destinal> RxS2k: The far better thing is for someone to make a service
Jan 14 04:22:59 <destinal> RxS2k: that detects speed changes and can undo them
Jan 14 04:23:07 <destinal> to lock it at whatever speed you want
Jan 14 04:23:33 <destinal> then you don't have to hack or patch anything
Jan 14 04:23:34 <RxS2k> what would it take to create such a service?
Jan 14 04:23:38 <rwhitby> destinal: I'm yet to be convinced it's stable with the technique that is known.
Jan 14 04:23:46 <Kyusaku> WebOS is still kinda sloppy
Jan 14 04:23:53 <destinal> rwhitby: it'll only be as stable as turbo mode is
Jan 14 04:23:59 <destinal> which is an official palm thing
Jan 14 04:24:21 <rwhitby> destinal: that's what I mean - I don't think we fully understand what turbo mode does yet.
Jan 14 04:24:26 <destinal> yes we do
Jan 14 04:24:32 <rwhitby> how?
Jan 14 04:24:35 <destinal> I worked on that already
Jan 14 04:24:52 <destinal> and puff put an inotify on the sysfs
Jan 14 04:24:55 <destinal> and we watched it
Jan 14 04:25:16 <rwhitby> wow, I missed that completely.  when did that happen?
Jan 14 04:25:56 <rwhitby> (I agree that would be enough to characterise it)
Jan 14 04:26:00 <destinal> rwhitby:  http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals/webos-internals.20100112.txt
Jan 14 04:26:02 <jacques> it looks like luna just write to a file in /sys
Jan 14 04:26:15 <destinal> Jan 11 17:52:01 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: I'm almost certain that LunaSysMgr writes to /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed
Jan 14 04:26:22 <destinal> then we proved it does in fact do just that
Jan 14 04:26:43 <RxS2k> one last question, after doctoring if i dont log into my real profile and try following the instructions and I am successful, if I do a partial erase will it stick?
Jan 14 04:27:11 <destinal> rwhitby: which is why this SED that RxS2k tried to do to his binary just forces turbo mode off to be 600 mhz also
Jan 14 04:27:17 <destinal> thus it flips from 600 to 600
Jan 14 04:28:06 <rwhitby> destinal: did we prove that no other /sys files were modified? like voltage regs or anything?
Jan 14 04:28:12 <ali1> dtzWill: actually now that i think about it, i think the vertex shader might be using over 128 uniforms?
Jan 14 04:28:27 <dtzWill> ali1: i thought about that, but is 128 the limit?
Jan 14 04:28:29 <destinal> rwhitby: there are no other strings  suggesting it
Jan 14 04:28:41 <ali1> dtzWill: yeah, for vertex shaders
Jan 14 04:28:41 <dtzWill> ali1: we don't need 8 light sources.... >_> <_<
Jan 14 04:28:58 <rwhitby> and have we compared the kernel patches from 1.3.1 to 1.3.5 to see what's changed there/
Jan 14 04:29:16 <dtzWill> ali1: i thought pandora had the same graphical hardware? :/ bummer if we have to cripple this to get it to work
Jan 14 04:29:18 <jacques> rwhitby: in theory, the kernel cpufreq/scaling support for the chip should do the voltage/memory timing changes
Jan 14 04:29:27 <dtzWill> ali1: although now that i think about it I might just have made up the same hardware bit :)
Jan 14 04:29:32 <rwhitby> jacques: yeah, that's why I'm asking
Jan 14 04:29:40 <jacques> the userspace interface to cpufreq is that /sys dir
Jan 14 04:29:48 <rwhitby> jacques: I can believe that it will work now if the kernel has changed
Jan 14 04:29:57 <ali1> dtzWill: no its the same hardware, pandora just has a slightly faster DSP
Jan 14 04:29:59 <destinal> rwhitby: well, it DOES work for games
Jan 14 04:30:04 <destinal> rwhitby: that's what palm does
Jan 14 04:30:15 <jacques> any SDL app AFAICT
Jan 14 04:30:17 <rwhitby> destinal: as I said, there's still reports of crashing games
Jan 14 04:30:25 <ali1> dtzWill: i think when he started this, he didn't have a pandora and rather used some emulator
Jan 14 04:30:29 <destinal> well there could be marginal CPU's out there
Jan 14 04:30:34 <destinal> but it works solid for most people
Jan 14 04:30:40 <rwhitby> agreed
Jan 14 04:30:50 <jacques> rwhitby: were you around when we were saying we would like to be able to run SDL apps at normal CPU freq?
Jan 14 04:31:00 <rwhitby> no
Jan 14 04:31:11 <destinal> that's what we want the service for if there isn't a libpdl method to opt-out of turbo
Jan 14 04:31:17 <jacques> I don't like giving up the battery life when running something like SDL terminal
Jan 14 04:31:21 <rwhitby> I must have skipped a day of backlog or something
Jan 14 04:31:37 <jacques> I wish I could remember the exact day - they are all running together
Jan 14 04:31:39 <destinal> rwhitby: 2010 01 12
Jan 14 04:31:56 <jacques> it seems farther back to me...
Jan 14 04:32:12 <destinal> Jan 11 18:14:40 <jacques> well thisis good news Jan 11 18:15:21 <destinal> so we can do a binary service that watches it and we can use the service to either lock a speed by overwriting it when changed as well as report to subscribers when it changes
Jan 14 04:33:58 <destinal> (it's in the 20010112.txt
Jan 14 04:33:59 <destinal> )
Jan 14 04:35:16 <destinal> I do hope there's some official way to request "no turbo"
Jan 14 04:35:29 <destinal> EA's sudoku doesn't need 600mhz
Jan 14 04:35:47 <destinal> nor VNC
Jan 14 04:36:06 <destinal> but if there isn't, the service will be important
Jan 14 04:36:07 <rwhitby> running half life 2 over vnc does though ;-)
Jan 14 04:36:11 <destinal> hehe
Jan 14 04:38:27 <destinal> rwhitby: it does kind of suck that official partners get info on all this stuff and can write code I can buy but it's all a secret and the rest of the world can't read about it until we reverse engineer it or wait for months
Jan 14 04:39:43 <jacques> I see this start of conversation: Jan 09 08:36:42 <jacques> /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor -> userspace   hmmm
Jan 14 04:40:28 <jacques> that's also when we talked about inotify first and I found something which said it didn't work in /sys which turned out to be old info
Jan 14 04:40:34 <destinal> jacques: yeah we figured out that it happens back then
Jan 14 04:41:10 <destinal> and you found setspeed then too, we just didn't know inotify
Jan 14 04:41:41 <jacques> that fact that inotify works in /sys now is great
Jan 14 04:41:43 <cryptk|werk> hows it goin everyone
Jan 14 04:42:26 <destinal> jacques: actually you thought of inotify as well but found that nabble.com thread about it not working and naturally didn't assume it would be wrong :)
Jan 14 04:42:41 <destinal> PuffTheMagic tends to disbelieve things until proven which was good here
Jan 14 04:42:55 <jacques> destinal: wekk it was a post by greg-kh - I figured he would know :-)
Jan 14 04:43:08 <jacques> s/kk/ll/
Jan 14 04:43:09 <infobot> jacques meant: destinal: well it was a post by greg-kh - I figured he would know :-)
Jan 14 04:43:26 <destinal> hehe, you'd THINK that, wouldn't you
Jan 14 04:43:58 <destinal> it was April 2009 too
Jan 14 04:43:59 <destinal> not that old
Jan 14 04:44:19 <jacques> yeah I took that into account as well
Jan 14 04:44:33 <destinal> dev> Can I user inotify with sysfs?
Jan 14 04:44:33 <destinal> greg-kh> No.
Jan 14 04:44:34 <jacques> oh well, I'm just glad it works now - musta been lots of demand
Jan 14 04:45:33 <destinal> yeah, I'm glad we don't have to poll it
Jan 14 04:45:37 <destinal> that would suck
Jan 14 04:45:57 <jacques> but not as much as 600MHz while running a terminal :-\
Jan 14 04:46:26 <destinal> that extra speed is apparently VERY power intensive
Jan 14 04:46:45 <jacques> yeah I read non-linear power usage
Jan 14 04:47:12 <jacques> I'd run mine slower if it were stable - there are other speeds listed
Jan 14 04:47:21 <destinal> jacques: it may BE stable
Jan 14 04:47:38 <jacques> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies
Jan 14 04:47:42 <jacques> 600000 550000 500000 250000 125000
Jan 14 04:48:17 <destinal> I wonder though considering the device is meant to sleep most of the time, when do you want to be using it and have it be 250mhz
Jan 14 04:48:52 <jacques> maybe while on a touchstone showing a clock
Jan 14 04:49:00 <jacques> waiting for a phone call
Jan 14 04:49:13 <jacques> acting like a very small LCD picture frame
Jan 14 04:49:22 <destinal> true, we could charge faster in nightstand mode or showing pictures
Jan 14 04:50:10 <destinal> and of course cpu would probably last longer as a picture frame if run much slower
Jan 14 04:51:38 <jacques> according to this it never goes below 500MHz: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state
Jan 14 04:51:38 <cryptk|werk> 250mhz is probably also more then enough if the phone is not sleeping but just sitting at the desktop...
Jan 14 04:52:08 <cryptk|werk> weird... it never go's below 500? even if you let it sit for about 5 minutes?
Jan 14 04:52:13 <destinal> well the service should definitely read the files and pass that along via dbus to the app that will select it
Jan 14 04:52:21 <cryptk|werk> it should kick down about a minute or 2 after the display go's off
Jan 14 04:52:23 <destinal> and we can lock in a speed
Jan 14 04:52:41 <destinal> cryptk|werk: I think it just goes straight to hibernation
Jan 14 04:52:42 <jacques> according to /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors ondemand governor is available, but userspace is being used
Jan 14 04:52:46 <cryptk|werk> destinal: what are you guys working on anyway? just troubleshooting some battery life?
Jan 14 04:52:54 <jacques> so it only does what LunaSysMgr tells it
Jan 14 04:53:00 <destinal> cryptk|werk: just a speed control switch
Jan 14 04:53:16 <cryptk|werk> so like an overclock app?
Jan 14 04:53:19 <destinal> cryptk|werk: and the ability to disable turbo in an app
Jan 14 04:53:22 <cryptk|werk> or underclock...
Jan 14 04:53:27 <destinal> cryptk|werk: right
Jan 14 04:53:48 <cryptk|werk> ahh, so basically making an app to where you can manually control CPU speed...
Jan 14 04:53:57 <cryptk|werk> running into any instability issues when it makes the switch?
Jan 14 04:54:20 <destinal> so cryptk|werk: well so far we haven't tried it by hand and we don't have the service we'd need ready either
Jan 14 04:54:40 <destinal> cryptk|werk: luna does it when SDL is initialized, sets it to 600mhz and calls it turbo mode
Jan 14 04:54:41 <jacques> scaling_driver == omap
Jan 14 04:54:55 <destinal> so games get faster CPU
Jan 14 04:55:16 <cryptk|werk> aah
Jan 14 04:55:22 <jacques> unfortunately, all SDL apps aren't games
Jan 14 04:55:27 <cryptk|werk> and you are looking for a way to prevent that?
Jan 14 04:55:36 <ali1> dtzWill: i'm gonna push my changes. the stupid thing is annoying me
Jan 14 04:55:38 <cryptk|werk> I wonder if we could somehow make a new app type
Jan 14 04:55:45 <destinal> well we can have a service inotify and watch for luna to set it
Jan 14 04:55:47 <cryptk|werk> like they added the new app type into the json for games
Jan 14 04:55:55 <cryptk|werk> could we make a game-noturbo somehow?
Jan 14 04:56:00 <cryptk|werk> or is that in a binary
Jan 14 04:56:08 <Kyusaku> maybe they will add more profiles other than "game" so it doesn't have to get boosted to 600mhz
Jan 14 04:56:14 <destinal> cryptk|werk: we don't know if SDL has an option yet
Jan 14 04:56:15 <cryptk|werk> if we could, that would be great
Jan 14 04:56:26 <dtzWill> ali1: sounds good. :/ sorry
Jan 14 04:56:47 <destinal> but worst case we can have a service counteract it automatically and we can have our SDL stuff talk to that service
Jan 14 04:56:48 <cryptk|werk> is it whenever SDL gets used that it go's turbo? or is it when something that uses app type game gets launched?
Jan 14 04:56:52 <jacques> well, considering it goes into turbo mode when I run any SDL app from the command line, I'm not sure it has anything to do with type game
Jan 14 04:56:58 <cryptk|werk> ahh
Jan 14 04:57:12 <cryptk|werk> perhaps we could code around it with the upstart manager though...
Jan 14 04:57:25 <destinal> jacques: yeah it's the SDL to LunaSysMgr IPC
Jan 14 04:57:47 <cryptk|werk> add something to the json that the upstart manager can see... then if tit gets launched throught he upstart, pre kicks it into turbo because of SDL then upstarts cuts it back down
Jan 14 04:57:59 <destinal> cryptk|werk: nah
Jan 14 04:58:07 <cryptk|werk> there is probably an easier way
Jan 14 04:58:21 <cryptk|werk> I was just looking to see if we could do it without requiring another service
Jan 14 04:58:33 <destinal> cryptk|werk: it would be a race condition without a notifier
Jan 14 04:58:54 <destinal> or a wait loop polling in the SDL app
Jan 14 04:59:02 <destinal> a service with inotify would be cleanest
Jan 14 04:59:14 <cryptk|werk> that's true
Jan 14 04:59:44 <destinal> actually cleaner still would be if palm made an opt out
Jan 14 04:59:51 <cryptk|werk> does it go into turbo when launched through terminal on the pre? or only terminal though SSH
Jan 14 05:00:00 <destinal> cryptk|werk: neither
Jan 14 05:00:01 <jacques> I can manually change it while a SDL app is running
Jan 14 05:00:02 <braxton> hello everyone
Jan 14 05:00:04 <destinal> err
Jan 14 05:00:08 <braxton> oh someone is talking about terminal
Jan 14 05:00:10 <destinal> wait I misunderstood
Jan 14 05:00:14 <braxton> does that work yet on 1.3.5.1
Jan 14 05:00:35 <destinal> cryptk|werk: it goes turbo whenever an SDL game is launched in any way
Jan 14 05:00:40 <cryptk|werk> ahh
Jan 14 05:00:44 <cryptk|werk> so SDL itself is doing it
Jan 14 05:00:52 <destinal> SDL is telling LunaSysMgr
Jan 14 05:00:57 <destinal> LunaSysMgr is doing it
Jan 14 05:01:03 <cryptk|werk> so you would basically have to lock the frequency, then run the app... then when the app closes unlock the frequency
Jan 14 05:01:39 <destinal> cryptk|werk: nah we could make the app subscribe the service and tell it to notify it when cpu changed and then set it back down
Jan 14 05:01:41 <jacques> I think LunaSysMgr does it when it starts a SDL card
Jan 14 05:01:49 <cryptk|werk> ahh, I gotcha
Jan 14 05:01:54 <cryptk|werk> I think I am all caught up now
Jan 14 05:02:03 <cryptk|werk> hence inotify being best, that makes sense now
Jan 14 05:02:22 <destinal> we could make the app use inotify too if it's simpler, there can be multiple things inotifying
Jan 14 05:02:46 <cryptk|werk> and that should prevent problems with it not hibernating properly if the phone go's to sleep while the app is running
Jan 14 05:03:13 <cryptk|werk> the service could be set up to only clock it down from 600 but not always change it to 500 when the frequency changes
Jan 14 05:03:20 <destinal> right
Jan 14 05:03:26 <ali1> dtzWill: its up if you want to mess with it
Jan 14 05:03:34 <cryptk|werk> I think it would be best if it were a service instead of having each app do it
Jan 14 05:03:54 <cryptk|werk> that would just be more work for each app that is made when they can just notify and be done with it
Jan 14 05:03:59 <destinal> worst case if the service wasn't installed the app wouldn't underclock
Jan 14 05:04:03 <destinal> no big deal
Jan 14 05:04:08 <cryptk|werk> yeah
Jan 14 05:04:12 <braxton> destinal, does terminal work in 1.3.5
Jan 14 05:04:13 <cryptk|werk> it would be an optional dependency
Jan 14 05:04:23 <cryptk|werk> braxton: yes
Jan 14 05:04:31 <cryptk|werk> braxton: I used it in 1.3.5
Jan 14 05:04:44 <destinal> braxton: yes there are reports of some instability that i haven't tracked down yet but I have never personally had it crash
Jan 14 05:04:45 <cryptk|werk> have you just recently upgraded to 1.3.5?
Jan 14 05:04:46 <braxton> when i close it, the system crashes
Jan 14 05:04:59 <braxton> i am on 1.3.5.1
Jan 14 05:05:02 <jacques> we could binary edit LunaSysMgr to change 600000 to 500000 and then control the speed ourselves :-)
Jan 14 05:05:07 <cryptk|werk> destinal: I do have issues with it causing luna to restart when closing terminal
Jan 14 05:05:17 <cryptk|werk> but as far as opening it and using it, that works fine
Jan 14 05:05:20 <braxton> ok, so it doesn't work
Jan 14 05:05:26 <cryptk|werk> I have not yet tried uninstalling and reinstalling it yet though
Jan 14 05:05:40 <braxton> how come noone updated webos quick install
Jan 14 05:05:42 <cryptk|werk> it *works* it just doesn't *stop working* cleanly
Jan 14 05:05:46 <destinal> hehe
Jan 14 05:05:51 <destinal> this plane FLIES great
Jan 14 05:05:55 <destinal> I just can't land
Jan 14 05:05:57 <cryptk|werk> braxton: what are you talking about nobody updated WosQI
Jan 14 05:06:04 <braxton> isn't it 2.96?
Jan 14 05:06:24 <cryptk|werk> 2.96 was already made to work with 1.3.5
Jan 14 05:07:08 <jacques> strings /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr | grep -e 600000 -e 500000
Jan 14 05:07:14 <braxton> one last question, did they update preware for 1.3.5?
Jan 14 05:07:17 <jacques> each appears once
Jan 14 05:07:32 <cryptk|werk> braxton: yes
Jan 14 05:07:42 <braxton> and I should just use webos quick install to get it?
Jan 14 05:07:43 <Kyusaku> yes preware has been through several versions since 1.3.5
Jan 14 05:07:43 <cryptk|werk> there was a new version pushed out to the public repository yesterdat
Jan 14 05:07:48 <braxton> it will always be the latest version?
Jan 14 05:07:53 <cryptk|werk> if you already have preware installed you can update it within preware
Jan 14 05:07:54 <destinal> jacques: yeah, that's what the guy who came in earlier was doing, applying a binary patch with sed
Jan 14 05:08:03 <destinal> but that's not very supportable IMO
Jan 14 05:08:08 <braxton> I was using webos internals
Jan 14 05:08:13 <cryptk|werk> braxton: if you do not have it installed yet, you can install it through WosQI
Jan 14 05:08:14 <braxton> i mean webos quick install
Jan 14 05:08:27 <braxton> so wosqi always gets the latest versions of patches online
Jan 14 05:08:28 <cryptk|werk> braxton: it can be updated through quick install
Jan 14 05:08:31 <jacques> destinal: yep, I was (mostly) joking about modifying LunaSysMgr
Jan 14 05:08:31 <braxton> they are not stored with the download?
Jan 14 05:08:35 <cryptk|werk> yes, it pulls from the feeds
Jan 14 05:08:38 <cryptk|werk> nope
Jan 14 05:08:39 <braxton> thanks
Jan 14 05:08:50 <cryptk|werk> it grabs the feeds and downloads the apps to install from the online repository
Jan 14 05:08:56 <jacques> it's just annoying that it's hard-wired in like that
Jan 14 05:09:08 <cryptk|werk> any other questions braxton?
Jan 14 05:09:08 <braxton> is there a webos doctor for 1.3.5.1?
Jan 14 05:09:13 <cryptk|werk> yep
Jan 14 05:09:14 <cryptk|werk> there is
Jan 14 05:09:22 <braxton> i'm sorry, I tried the websites
Jan 14 05:09:25 <braxton> but instead of information or downloads
Jan 14 05:09:27 <braxton> there are just forums
Jan 14 05:09:44 <braxton> so like if you click the link in the topic here about preware
Jan 14 05:09:58 <braxton> it doesn't have a change log, or version information
Jan 14 05:10:10 <cryptk|werk> the changelog for preware is viewable within preware itself
Jan 14 05:10:32 <braxton> what is the download link for wosqi?
Jan 14 05:10:44 <cryptk|werk> it is in the WosQI thread on PreCentral
Jan 14 05:10:47 <cryptk|werk> in the first post
Jan 14 05:10:55 <braxton> ok thank you
Jan 14 05:10:59 <cryptk|werk> http://forums.precentral.net/canuck-software/206905-webos-quick-install-v2-96-a.html
Jan 14 05:11:55 <braxton> the best thing ever would be putty ported to pre
Jan 14 05:12:08 <cryptk|werk> you can SSH from within the pre already
Jan 14 05:12:26 <braxton> yeah the terminal app crashes the os after you close it
Jan 14 05:12:28 <braxton> so it's annoying
Jan 14 05:12:38 <destinal> braxton: yes, but I maintain terminal and I'm debugging it now :P
Jan 14 05:12:43 <braxton> oh
Jan 14 05:12:46 <braxton> just right now because of us?
Jan 14 05:12:49 <destinal> yes
Jan 14 05:12:56 <braxton> noone said anything about the crashing
Jan 14 05:13:00 <braxton> since 1.3.5?
Jan 14 05:13:02 <braxton> until now?
Jan 14 05:13:11 <destinal> well actually I was looking at it earlier today too
Jan 14 05:13:16 <braxton> that's strange
Jan 14 05:13:16 <cryptk|werk> braxton: btw here is the link to the 1.3.5.1 Spring Web Doctor
Jan 14 05:13:17 <cryptk|werk> http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre/p1351r0d01082010/sr1ntp1351rod/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar
Jan 14 05:13:31 <destinal> braxton: but you reminded me
Jan 14 05:13:42 <cryptk|werk> it is only when I close terminal
Jan 14 05:13:47 <braxton> same here
Jan 14 05:14:00 <cryptk|werk> open it is great, using it is great, close it and luna hangs for a bit then restarts
Jan 14 05:14:07 <destinal> I just built a debug version which logs all the drawing
Jan 14 05:14:15 <destinal> so hopefully I can find it if mine crashes
Jan 14 05:14:22 <destinal> if it doesn't I'll have one of you try it
Jan 14 05:14:33 <cryptk|werk> if yours does not crash when it closes I can test it once I get home from work
Jan 14 05:14:40 <cryptk|werk> can't have my phone in the building anymore
Jan 14 05:14:43 <braxton> destinal can you add ls colors when it installs/
Jan 14 05:14:47 <cryptk|werk> (the iPhone guys got jealous)
Jan 14 05:15:00 <destinal> braxton: ?
Jan 14 05:15:19 <braxton> directory listings in colors?
Jan 14 05:15:20 <destinal> braxton: you need a color version of ls installed
Jan 14 05:15:34 <braxton> is that something that is out?
Jan 14 05:15:39 <cryptk|werk> braxton: the ls colors is a function of ls, not of terminal
Jan 14 05:15:45 <destinal> braxton: you can use optware to install it
Jan 14 05:15:46 <braxton> oh
Jan 14 05:15:50 <braxton> what's it called?
Jan 14 05:16:39 <destinal> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Use_%22ls%22_In_Color
Jan 14 05:17:01 <destinal> you need optware first
Jan 14 05:17:04 <destinal> which is in preware
Jan 14 05:17:33 <destinal> then you need to ssh in or novaterm in or in terminal   run    ipkg-opt  stuff in that article
Jan 14 05:17:49 <braxton> do you guys normally use preware or webosqi
Jan 14 05:17:53 <braxton> to maintain your pre
Jan 14 05:17:55 <destinal> preware
Jan 14 05:18:34 <braxton> yeah , i like how preware tells you what is installed already
Jan 14 05:18:41 <braxton> wosqi just keeps listing everything
Jan 14 05:18:45 <braxton> hard for me to know what patches I did
Jan 14 05:18:46 <cryptk|werk> preware
Jan 14 05:19:02 <cryptk|werk> I use WosQI to install preware, that's about it
Jan 14 05:19:11 <cryptk|werk> oh... and install patch files that aren't in the repos
Jan 14 05:19:20 <cryptk|werk> and ipk's that aren't in the repos
Jan 14 05:19:21 <rwhitby> braxton: I use wosqi once per doctoring, to install preware ;-)
Jan 14 05:19:26 <cryptk|werk> but if it is in the repos, I use preware
Jan 14 05:19:32 <egaudet> I use bootstrap
Jan 14 05:19:38 <egaudet> quick and easy
Jan 14 05:21:35 <rwhitby> egaudet: yeah, actually I do too later
Jan 14 05:21:38 <rwhitby> lately
Jan 14 05:21:38 <destinal> rwhitby: for some that's a 200+ meg download for little reason
Jan 14 05:22:20 <rwhitby> destinal: sure, but it's the tool of choice for RxS2k and AM
Jan 14 05:22:33 <jacques> lol
Jan 14 05:22:41 <jacques> ouch
Jan 14 05:22:42 <destinal> rwhitby: must breathe
Jan 14 05:23:10 <destinal> ok stopped laughing
Jan 14 05:23:45 <jacques> I just proved the goocanvas can initialize a canvas with over 1,000,000 objects on it in under 15 seconds
Jan 14 05:23:49 <destinal> why is it, it seems that pain and humor are linked so much
Jan 14 05:24:02 <jacques> guy at work wrote a report saying it tool like 5 hours of something
Jan 14 05:24:24 <cryptk|werk> I like using QI since I typically have the doctor downloaded already for the repair utility
Jan 14 05:24:31 <braxton> destinal , do you have a website where you update information about terminal
Jan 14 05:24:33 <cryptk|werk> I help alot of friends out with their pre's
Jan 14 05:24:38 <braxton> for versions
Jan 14 05:24:47 <cryptk|werk> showing them how to mod them and fixing them when they fuck it up, lol
Jan 14 05:25:09 <JMyaDaGod> lol i am fixing to guys tomorrows because they got a stuck theme lol
Jan 14 05:25:12 <JMyaDaGod> two*
Jan 14 05:25:14 <jacques> we need USB host mode, then we can wosqi from one pre to another :-)
Jan 14 05:25:25 <destinal> braxton: webosinternals wiki
Jan 14 05:25:33 <destinal> braxton: ok this is bizarre
Jan 14 05:25:33 <Kyusaku> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Jan 14 05:25:37 <rwhitby> dBsooner: http://pdnblog.palm.com/2010/01/whats-happening-in-webosland-10 (got your name wrong)
Jan 14 05:25:46 <destinal> it was NOT in the middle of a draw when it crashed
Jan 14 05:25:50 <destinal> I did manage to get it to crash finally
Jan 14 05:25:55 <sslow> braxton: you say terminal crashes your Pre? is this happening to many?  mine works fine
Jan 14 05:26:03 <destinal> this is most unexpected
Jan 14 05:26:06 <braxton> when i close it it crashes luna
Jan 14 05:26:10 <braxton> another guy said that happens also
Jan 14 05:26:13 <braxton> 1.3.5.1 btw
Jan 14 05:26:19 <destinal> braxton: yes
Jan 14 05:26:20 <dBsooner> rwhitby: Wow.. at least I was named.
Jan 14 05:26:21 <dBsooner> :)
Jan 14 05:26:27 <Kyusaku> it happens to me if Java is restarting
Jan 14 05:26:28 <destinal> braxton: I agree, it does happen reproducibly
Jan 14 05:26:29 <sslow> 1.3.5.1 too no problems here
Jan 14 05:26:32 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, lots of reports of terminal crashing for 1.3.5
Jan 14 05:26:33 <dBsooner> I'll get onto chuq tomorrow. ;)
Jan 14 05:26:44 <destinal> I had been under the assumption it was a bad draw
Jan 14 05:26:53 <destinal> I am starting to think I was wrong
Jan 14 05:27:22 <Roy-Pre101> Quick query: How do you add a feed to Preware?
Jan 14 05:27:27 <cryptk|werk> yep, I am 1.3.5.1 with it crashing
Jan 14 05:27:30 <sslow> I admit I dont use terminal often but no issues so far
Jan 14 05:27:31 <Roy-Pre101> I thought there was a way but I can't find it.
Jan 14 05:28:02 <Kyusaku> the only time I've had it crash my Pre is I try closing it in the middle of a Java restart
Jan 14 05:28:12 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: which feed do you want to add?
Jan 14 05:28:16 <braxton> destinal if you don't fix it will webos internals hold back your paycheck?
Jan 14 05:28:25 <cryptk|werk> dBsooner: if that link to your forum post isn't palm condoning patching... then I don't know what is
Jan 14 05:28:26 <Roy-Pre101> Trying to add the webos internals testing feed for freetether.
Jan 14 05:28:33 <destinal> braxton: lmao, paycheck, how funny
Jan 14 05:28:36 <rwhitby> ~testing-feed
Jan 14 05:28:38 <infobot> testing-feed is probably http://bit.ly/testing-feed
Jan 14 05:28:47 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: ^^
Jan 14 05:28:58 <dBsooner> cryptk|werk: It was Chuq posting it.. I finally broke him down and got him to post about it! :)
Jan 14 05:29:14 <dBsooner> cryptk|werk: But, that is EXCELLENT news for WebOS-Internals. :)
Jan 14 05:29:17 <Roy-Pre101> OK... but...  Where do you plug that in to Preware? :P  I can't find the 'add feed' button anymore.
Jan 14 05:29:18 <cryptk|werk> yeah
Jan 14 05:29:20 <destinal> what link?
Jan 14 05:29:22 <cryptk|werk> good advertisement
Jan 14 05:29:32 <cryptk|werk> http://pdnblog.palm.com/2010/01/whats-happening-in-webosland-10
Jan 14 05:29:33 <dBsooner> destinal: rwhitby posted it about 20 lines up.
Jan 14 05:29:35 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: click the link - it's a pastebin
Jan 14 05:29:44 <Roy-Pre101> oic
Jan 14 05:29:47 <cryptk|werk> there is a link to the precentral thread about dBsooner's patches portal
Jan 14 05:29:51 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: shows where to put the file and what to put in it
Jan 14 05:30:32 <Roy-Pre101> Gotcha.  Thanks, I thought that was the link to the feed which I figured wouldn't help if I didn't know where to put it. ;)
Jan 14 05:31:05 <rwhitby> infobot: no, testing-feed is To setup the WebOS Internals testing feed, please read http://bit.ly/testing-feed
Jan 14 05:31:06 <infobot> rwhitby: okay
Jan 14 05:31:09 <cryptk|werk> so... does preware qualify for that $1 hot app program, lol
Jan 14 05:31:13 <cryptk|werk> if so... I think you guys win
Jan 14 05:31:50 <destinal> aha, there's a lead
Jan 14 05:31:59 <cryptk|werk> rwhitby: is updating the infobot really that easy?
Jan 14 05:32:05 <cryptk|werk> ~testing-feed
Jan 14 05:32:06 <infobot> from memory, testing-feed is To setup the WebOS Internals testing feed, please read http://bit.ly/testing-feed
Jan 14 05:32:13 <cryptk|werk> holy crap... that is cool
Jan 14 05:32:16 <destinal> clearing keyStatesParentObj (old:0x38a9fa10)     term: In Object_Deallocate        Select thread terminated
Jan 14 05:32:16 <destinal>  killing pid 5072 with 1
Jan 14 05:32:16 <destinal>  Segmentation fault
Jan 14 05:33:03 <cryptk|werk> eeew, seg fault
Jan 14 05:33:16 <cryptk|werk> had a feeling it was a seg falt, but I have no clue what is causiong it
Jan 14 05:33:17 <Roy-Pre101> Would be nice if the pastebin was more along the lines of 'echo "src/gz web...." > /media/....
Jan 14 05:33:28 <cryptk|werk> brb, smokie treat time
Jan 14 05:36:09 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: it would be best if it was a wiki page that you wrote for us ;-)
Jan 14 05:36:17 <destinal> instrumenting more before I pull out gdb
Jan 14 05:36:41 <Roy-Pre101> http://webos.pastebin.com/d5cd6d850
Jan 14 05:36:56 <jacques> oh, it _is_ raining
Jan 14 05:37:02 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: ooh.  the burn...  I'm forever saying that. :)
Jan 14 05:37:22 <Roy-Pre101> I'll put it in my todo list.
Jan 14 05:38:03 <rwhitby> infobot: no, testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, which can be enabled by the script at http://webos.pastebin.com/f2df4390d
Jan 14 05:38:04 <infobot> rwhitby: okay
Jan 14 05:38:11 <destinal> yep, it dies in object_deallocate.   never comes out alive.
Jan 14 05:38:28 <destinal> at least, the second time I throw it away it does
Jan 14 05:38:36 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: Is Testing Feed a good place on webos internals for that?
Jan 14 05:38:37 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: (I set the expiry on the post to never)
Jan 14 05:38:53 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: Good idea.
Jan 14 05:39:15 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: plural, cause we have multiple testing feeds (patches, optware, webos-internals, etc)
Jan 14 05:39:25 <destinal> LunaSysMgr likes to yell at me when it starts.
Jan 14 05:39:26 <destinal> NO PALM CARRIER in PREFS DB
Jan 14 05:39:51 <destinal> okay luna, it's fine, calm down :)
Jan 14 05:42:06 <destinal> can someone else with the terminal crash
Jan 14 05:42:22 <destinal> reboot their phone and confirm that it's only the SECOND time you throw it away that it crashes luna?
Jan 14 05:43:40 <destinal> anyone?
Jan 14 05:43:47 <Kyusaku> rebooring now
Jan 14 05:43:51 <Kyusaku> rebooting*
Jan 14 05:44:18 <destinal> cool, I think I understand why terminal crashes now, just want to confirm with someone else it's not just me
Jan 14 05:44:35 <Kyusaku> was laughing at a recent AT&T commercial talking about rollover mins and yet the commercial's tag line was about 3G
Jan 14 05:44:48 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds   It ain't fancy but it's written
Jan 14 05:45:10 <raghuk> hi guys
Jan 14 05:45:16 <Kyusaku> should I start 2 instances or just 1 at a time
Jan 14 05:45:17 <destinal> raghuk: hola
Jan 14 05:45:20 <rwhitby> infobot: no, testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds
Jan 14 05:45:21 <infobot> okay, rwhitby
Jan 14 05:45:51 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: thx
Jan 14 05:46:06 <raghuk> how can one handle "ESC" command ? any one ...
Jan 14 05:46:25 <Roy-Pre101> hah, wondered why the new feed wasn't showing up.  The curse of having two Pre's now.
Jan 14 05:46:32 <Roy-Pre101> Checking other device now...
Jan 14 05:46:34 <destinal> raghuk: I'm not sure exactly what's up there
Jan 14 05:46:49 <destinal> raghuk: need more elaboration please
Jan 14 05:46:54 <Kyusaku> destinal: yep lock up
Jan 14 05:47:03 <destinal> Kyusaku: on second throwaway?
Jan 14 05:47:07 <Kyusaku> yep
Jan 14 05:47:13 <destinal> cool thanks
Jan 14 05:47:23 <Kyusaku> phone is rebooting as we speak from lock up
Jan 14 05:47:29 <raghuk> destinal: like in contacts ... when u add name and "ESC" the scene .. it stores the contact
Jan 14 05:48:00 <destinal> raghuk: it's the same thing as back gesture
Jan 14 05:48:13 <destinal> raghuk: I don't know though I'm not a mojo developer.  have you asked in #webos
Jan 14 05:48:14 <destinal> ?
Jan 14 05:48:44 <raghuk> hmmm .. need to check ...
Jan 14 05:48:52 <destinal> there are a lot more mojo devs generally there
Jan 14 05:49:01 <raghuk> let me try ... thanks
Jan 14 05:49:06 <destinal> no problem
Jan 14 05:49:32 <destinal> so it's definitely the second deallocation
Jan 14 05:49:47 <destinal> s/on/on (in terminal)/
Jan 14 05:49:47 <infobot> destinal meant: so it's definitely the secon (in terminal)d deallocation
Jan 14 05:50:04 <destinal> sigh, that's it, take away my sed license
Jan 14 05:50:38 <jacques> s/sed license//
Jan 14 05:50:54 <destinal> lol
Jan 14 05:51:06 <Roy-Pre101> Well, that was premature...
Jan 14 05:51:29 <cryptk|werk> s/license/license is revoked/
Jan 14 05:51:32 <Roy-Pre101> The new feed shows up...  but I don't see Free Tether anywhere.  mumble.
Jan 14 05:51:40 <Roy-Pre101> Is it not updated to 1.3.5?
Jan 14 05:51:57 <cryptk|werk> weird... why did infobot not sed my statement...
Jan 14 05:52:24 <destinal> cryptk|werk: it only applies it to YOUR last sent line
Jan 14 05:52:37 <Kyusaku> Roy-Pre101: You sure it's accessing the feed?
Jan 14 05:52:41 <rwhitby> yeah, don't go sedding my words
Jan 14 05:52:55 <cryptk|werk_> damn IRC web client...
Jan 14 05:52:56 <destinal> ~terminal
Jan 14 05:52:57 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: update feeds?
Jan 14 05:52:57 <infobot> [terminal] very, very alpha, but can be found at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Jan 14 05:54:12 <Roy-Pre101> Testing...  Need to disable the palm catalog feed on wife's phone.
Jan 14 05:54:14 <cryptk|werk_> rwhitby: how are dependencies handles in preware?  there are a few apps that don't recommend their dependencies... mainly ones from canuck software
Jan 14 05:54:56 <cryptk|werk_> like his new flashlight app didn't recommend it's service for me... I don't think internalz did either
Jan 14 05:54:59 <rwhitby> cryptk|werk_: Jason is aware that he has missed these dependencies.  You need to realise that wosqi doesn't handle dependencies, so he has no incentive to add them
Jan 14 05:55:06 <cryptk|werk_> ahh
Jan 14 05:55:08 <cryptk|werk_> I see
Jan 14 05:55:20 <rwhitby> it's a Depends: line in the control file.  very easy.
Jan 14 05:55:21 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: That did it.  I assumed closing and reopening would fix it.
Jan 14 05:55:49 <destinal> rwhitby: in that case, WOSQI fail
Jan 14 05:56:32 <rwhitby> destinal: preaching to the converted on that one.  different priorities for different developers.
Jan 14 05:56:43 <rwhitby> (and no-one has enough time to do everything)
Jan 14 05:57:05 <Towzzer> destinal
Jan 14 05:57:06 <cryptk|werk> it makes sense that jason would have no reason to add it in for preware when he writes WosQI
Jan 14 05:57:09 <Towzzer> any word on that terminal crash
Jan 14 05:57:14 <cryptk|werk> he would obviously prefer that people use his software
Jan 14 05:57:18 <destinal> rwhitby: ok, I'm conflicted on this.  I just fixed terminal for me, by violating the NPAPI and refusing to deallocate an object the browser requested I deallocate
Jan 14 05:57:23 <cryptk|werk> Towzzer: he is working on it now
Jan 14 05:57:41 <Towzzer> destinal i love hacky fixes, upload it now
Jan 14 05:58:00 <cryptk|werk> Towzzer: calm down... he will upload it when he is satisfied with it
Jan 14 05:59:06 <cryptk|werk> code that works is not always the best way to do it
Jan 14 05:59:09 <destinal> Towzzer: I have to figure out why it's telling me to do something catastrophic (maybe we're misinterpreting the call)
Jan 14 05:59:45 <destinal> I thought it would be a graphics thing, but no, graphics drawing is solid / stable
Jan 14 06:00:15 <rwhitby> cryptk|werk: apart from Internalz and LED Torch, what other apps are missing dependencies?
Jan 14 06:01:01 <cryptk|werk> I can't think of any off hand, but I would say any of them ceom canuck taht require services
Jan 14 06:01:10 <cryptk|werk> he has a top bar patch out that puts a flashlight control int he top bar
Jan 14 06:01:20 <cryptk|werk> that depends on the same service as LED Torch
Jan 14 06:01:23 <rwhitby> the patch in Preware has the dependency
Jan 14 06:01:35 <cryptk|werk> (well, I don't know if it is a dependency, but the flashlight toggle definitely won't work without it)
Jan 14 06:01:36 <rwhitby> (since dBsooner adds it)
Jan 14 06:01:42 <cryptk|werk> ahh
Jan 14 06:01:48 <egaudet> and dBsooner follows open standards
Jan 14 06:01:57 * dBsooner follows NO standards
Jan 14 06:01:58 <dBsooner> :)
Jan 14 06:02:50 <cryptk|werk> dBsooner: did you figure out a way to send the patches to the phone from your web portal? I know you were brainstorming it the other day
Jan 14 06:03:06 <Towzzer> detinal does it use bash
Jan 14 06:03:10 <dBsooner> Not something I have been thinking about
Jan 14 06:03:15 <cryptk|werk> ahh
Jan 14 06:03:15 <dBsooner> I have been WAY busy with the admin portal
Jan 14 06:03:16 <cryptk|werk> no biggie
Jan 14 06:03:25 <cryptk|werk> yeah, get all that finished first
Jan 14 06:03:36 <cryptk|werk> do you have a whole website, or just the patch portal?
Jan 14 06:05:00 <destinal> Towzzer: terminal doesn't "use" any shell, it creates a terminal and calls login
Jan 14 06:05:15 <destinal> s/a terminal/a tty/
Jan 14 06:05:15 <infobot> destinal meant: Towzzer: terminal doesn't "use" any shell, it creates a tty and calls login
Jan 14 06:05:19 <dBsooner> egaudet: we need to make the extract-pdf-app a dummy package in 1.3.5
Jan 14 06:05:23 <destinal> yay maybe I can get a sed permit again
Jan 14 06:05:33 <egaudet> why?
Jan 14 06:05:35 <destinal> don't tell anyone I was operating without a license
Jan 14 06:05:37 <dBsooner> egaudet: because it's still a dependant for the pdf patches in < 1.3.5
Jan 14 06:05:42 <dBsooner> and it fails to install on 1.3.5
Jan 14 06:05:47 <egaudet> nice
Jan 14 06:05:48 <cryptk|werk> Towzzer: if you install bash, you can then set up root to use bash... then terminal will will be bash
Jan 14 06:05:55 <dBsooner> since on 1.3.5 it's already extraqcted
Jan 14 06:05:58 <egaudet> well it's not a dummy
Jan 14 06:06:04 <egaudet> unless you verified it's not needed?
Jan 14 06:06:10 <dBsooner> it's not needed
Jan 14 06:06:10 <egaudet> from a stock webos
Jan 14 06:06:15 <dBsooner> yes, verified.
Jan 14 06:06:18 <rwhitby> dBsooner: the dependency shouldn't be there for 1.3.5 patches then
Jan 14 06:06:25 <egaudet> yep
Jan 14 06:06:33 <dBsooner> rwhitby: so I would have to create a separate makefile for it
Jan 14 06:06:43 <egaudet> the < 1.3.5 patches aren't remade
Jan 14 06:06:55 <egaudet> they are in their respective feeds staying happy as long as their versions never bump
Jan 14 06:07:01 <egaudet> and thus will always keep the dependency
Jan 14 06:07:10 <cryptk|werk> egaudet: how far back do you guys maintain the repos? 2 versions back?
Jan 14 06:07:10 <dBsooner> it would be easier to just dummy the 1.3.5 extract app
Jan 14 06:07:11 <Towzzer> anyone with a pre in front of them
Jan 14 06:07:17 <dBsooner> and let it cycle out next webos release
Jan 14 06:07:18 <Towzzer> does your slide portion extend a little beyond the bottom
Jan 14 06:07:22 <Towzzer> or did i break my phone
Jan 14 06:07:36 <dBsooner> cryptk|werk: we only maintain for currently used versions
Jan 14 06:07:38 <egaudet> cryptk|werk, try to do only whatever the latest is out for all the carriers
Jan 14 06:07:50 <egaudet> but all the old ones don't get erased
Jan 14 06:08:28 <egaudet> dBsooner, how is dummying extract app (which is not in a version specific feed) right or even easier than removing the DEPENDS = ?
Jan 14 06:08:31 <cryptk|werk> that is what I meant, not maintain, but how many versions back stay on the repos... all of them from what you are saying
Jan 14 06:08:49 <dBsooner> egaudet: because it's annoying?
Jan 14 06:08:51 <dBsooner> ;)
Jan 14 06:09:02 <dBsooner> i'll remove the depends
Jan 14 06:09:13 <egaudet> well it's needed for old versions so it can't be dummied
Jan 14 06:10:17 <dBsooner> it's done.. sorry I asked. :)
Jan 14 06:11:01 <egaudet> thanks Daniel Sooner
Jan 14 06:12:50 <dBsooner> egaudet: hush yo mouth
Jan 14 06:12:56 <egaudet> lol
Jan 14 06:15:01 <destinal> huh, well, no wonder
Jan 14 06:15:45 <destinal> it keeps asking me to deallocate the object at 0x3ecfdfcc .. unless it's actually getting recreated the second time should segfault
Jan 14 06:16:55 <cryptk|werk> I swear... I am going to destroy the freenode web client...
Jan 14 06:19:28 <rwhitby> dBsooner: you can make the depends conditional
Jan 14 06:19:41 <dBsooner> rwhitby: nope.. MUCH easier to remove it
Jan 14 06:19:49 <rwhitby> dBsooner: that works too
Jan 14 06:20:02 <dBsooner> as none of the older patches will need to be rebuilt, just removing the depends from teh Makefile is easier.
Jan 14 06:20:12 <rwhitby> nod
Jan 14 06:26:11 <Towzzer> i wonder if the nexus is hard to hack
Jan 14 06:26:36 <destinal> Towzzer: well they have an easy root
Jan 14 06:26:40 <destinal> Towzzer: now
Jan 14 06:27:07 <destinal> Towzzer: but Android is a lot less friendly to casual modification IMO
Jan 14 06:27:34 <Towzzer> maybe it will have putty
Jan 14 06:27:35 <Towzzer> :D
Jan 14 06:27:39 <rwhitby> You can
Jan 14 06:27:57 <rwhitby> not do our 172 patches on-the-fly OTA with any other mobile OS
Jan 14 06:28:58 <rwhitby> show me another phone where you can patch the user interface while sitting in a cafe without a laptop.
Jan 14 06:29:22 <destinal> so, something definitely wrong with this picture
Jan 14 06:29:24 <destinal> term: created object at at 0x3ecfe30c
Jan 14 06:29:24 <destinal> term: was asked to delete object at 0x3ecfdfcc
Jan 14 06:29:24 <destinal> term: created object at at 0x3ecfe30c
Jan 14 06:29:24 <destinal> term: was asked to delete object at 0x3ecfdfcc
Jan 14 06:30:20 <destinal> that second dealloc is the one that would crash it, understandably
Jan 14 06:31:36 <destinal> I want to look at it in an older webos now
Jan 14 06:32:05 <destinal> anyone still have a pre 1.3.5 webos?
Jan 14 06:32:14 <destinal> s/pre/prior to/
Jan 14 06:32:15 <infobot> destinal meant: anyone still have a prior to 1.3.5 webos?
Jan 14 06:32:23 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: "there's a patch for that". :D
Jan 14 06:37:06 <cryptk|werk> destinal: I am going to report you to the sed police... operating on a suspended license...
Jan 14 06:37:07 <rwhitby> 3 packages which turn up in Type:Unknown, Feed:Unknown in Preware.  What is the common link?
Jan 14 06:37:15 <destinal> cryptk|werk: lol
Jan 14 06:37:19 <cryptk|werk> rwhitby: what are the packages?
Jan 14 06:37:42 <rwhitby> DnD 4e Compendium, Family Fone Finder, Random Numbers.
Jan 14 06:37:51 <destinal> I guess I could try overwriting LunaSysMgr with an older version, hmmm
Jan 14 06:37:54 <cryptk|werk> rwhitby: you should teach infobot that destinal is not allowed to use sed... then we can say ~destinal and see his current sed license status, lol
Jan 14 06:38:02 <destinal> ~destinal
Jan 14 06:38:16 <rwhitby> cryptk|werk: I am not infobot's master.  I just know how to drive it.
Jan 14 06:38:22 <rwhitby> ~botsnack
Jan 14 06:38:24 <infobot> rwhitby: :)
Jan 14 06:38:28 <destinal> ~~~~
Jan 14 06:38:29 <infobot> ARGH!!! STOP IT destinal!!!
Jan 14 06:38:50 <cryptk|werk> haha, well steer it in the direction of having something snappy to say if we do ~destinal... preferably about his sed license
Jan 14 06:38:55 <Kyusaku> lol botfun
Jan 14 06:39:20 <rwhitby> There must be something common to those three packages which is causing either the feed converter or the JSON parser in Preware to barf.
Jan 14 06:39:22 <cryptk|werk> I am guessing you need voice to control it, lol
Jan 14 06:39:31 <cryptk|werk> what are the packages?
Jan 14 06:39:37 <rwhitby> DnD 4e Compendium, Family Fone Finder, Random Numbers.
Jan 14 06:40:12 <rwhitby> Hmm - they are all missing a description too
Jan 14 06:40:25 <destinal> ~destinal is a hoopy frood who always knows where his towel is.  also maintainer of terminal and suspected of sed abuse in several jurisdictions.
Jan 14 06:40:26 <infobot> destinal: okay
Jan 14 06:41:14 <cryptk|werk> what are they showing in the feed from palm?
Jan 14 06:41:55 <destinal> ~destinal
Jan 14 06:41:56 <infobot> [destinal] a hoopy frood who always knows where his towel is.  also maintainer of terminal and suspected of sed abuse in several jurisdictions.
Jan 14 06:42:02 <rwhitby> com.ghotiinteractive.dnd4ecompendium is in palm-beta
Jan 14 06:42:37 <cryptk|werk> very nice
Jan 14 06:43:22 <dtzWill> has anyone seen tag234 here lately?
Jan 14 06:43:24 <destinal> ~hello
Jan 14 06:43:25 <infobot> Howdy Bub
Jan 14 06:43:46 <destinal> ~seen tag234
Jan 14 06:43:46 <hello> I have one quick question about rooting into my palm... Can someone please help me? :)
Jan 14 06:43:48 <infobot> tag234 <i=Tag234@s100-33.resnet.ucla.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 2d 2h 23m 18s ago, saying: 'hah ide be willing to help if i can contribute'.
Jan 14 06:44:11 <dtzWill> destinal: ty. <3 infobot.
Jan 14 06:44:11 <rwhitby> com.familyfonefinder.app.fff and com.lukewalkerapps.randomnumbers are in palm-catalog
Jan 14 06:44:30 <cryptk|werk> hello: what is your question?
Jan 14 06:44:30 <destinal> ~botsnack
Jan 14 06:44:31 <infobot> thanks, destinal
Jan 14 06:44:43 <hello> I keep getting root@palm-webos-device instead of root@castle in my cmd
Jan 14 06:44:53 <rwhitby> that means you're running 1.3.1 or later
Jan 14 06:44:57 <cryptk|werk> yep, the device name changed
Jan 14 06:45:13 <cryptk|werk> no problems there, everythign works just as before, just a new name
Jan 14 06:45:28 <cryptk|werk> palm-webos-device is more descriptive than castle so they changed it
Jan 14 06:45:30 <rwhitby> since castle was Pre, when they merged in the Pixi they had to make a generic name
Jan 14 06:45:34 <destinal> and you're not sentimental enough to change it back, like I am
Jan 14 06:45:48 <hello> all i want to do is make my dialer pink haha, now im determined to figure it out
Jan 14 06:45:55 * rwhitby changes to pre, cdma-pre and gsm-pre
Jan 14 06:46:25 <cryptk|werk> well, if you have instructions on how to do it at the command line, don't let the new device name stop you
Jan 14 06:46:59 <hello> okay cool, i just wanted to make sure i wasnt going to totally mess up my phone.
Jan 14 06:47:03 <hello> thanks guys. :)
Jan 14 06:47:04 <destinal> rwhitby: nice, definitely good when you have three to keep track of which one you just shelled into :)
Jan 14 06:47:28 <hello> i might be back, if I have any more problems. lol
Jan 14 06:47:31 <destinal> I make get a second one for dev
Jan 14 06:47:56 <rwhitby> hello: you're one step ahead of RxS2k
Jan 14 06:48:18 <destinal> s/make/may/
Jan 14 06:48:18 <infobot> destinal meant: I may get a second one for dev
Jan 14 06:48:47 <rwhitby> So each of those three packages has an odd number of single quotes in their description ...
Jan 14 06:49:07 <destinal> I'd really like to try dd'ing /dev/zero over my entire flash (after I have a partition1 backup)  and totally unbrick it
Jan 14 06:49:24 <destinal> but I won't do that to my main phone even if I'm pretty confident about it now
Jan 14 06:53:13 <rwhitby> Aha, three error messages in /var/log/messages when updating feeds: org.webosinternals.preware: Error: EXCEPTION [infoLoad#parse], (SyntaxError): "String '%0' is not valid JSON",
Jan 14 06:53:50 <Towzzer> this jason fellow keeps causing problems
Jan 14 06:53:51 <Towzzer> we should find him
Jan 14 06:53:55 <Towzzer> and beat him up
Jan 14 06:56:15 <destinal> rwhitby: I got a "split" error  before as well
Jan 14 06:56:50 <rwhitby> http://json.parser.online.fr/ says the three JSON strings are valid.
Jan 14 06:58:55 <rwhitby> Hmm - the Packages file strings are valid, let's check the JSON that the service passes back ...
Jan 14 07:10:15 <rwhitby> aha - those three packages are the only ones with the two characters \ and ' next to each other, without another \ before them.
Jan 14 07:11:15 <Towzzer> are palm pre apps coded in javascript?
Jan 14 07:12:16 <rwhitby> Towzzer: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1761&Itemid=42
Jan 14 07:13:23 <Senk> Guys i need help rooting my pre.I typed in novaterm on Terminal and i get: root@palm-webos-device. Does that mean im in?
Jan 14 07:15:21 <cryptk|werk> Senk: yes
Jan 14 07:15:38 <cryptk|werk> root is the account name... palm-webos-device would be your phone
Jan 14 07:15:45 <cryptk|werk> you have root access to your phone
Jan 14 07:16:03 <cryptk|werk> be careful in there... you can break things...
Jan 14 07:16:32 <Senk> cryptk|werk: awesome. how can i setup a usernamelpassword?
Jan 14 07:17:16 <cryptk|werk> what exactly are you trying to do?
Jan 14 07:18:28 <cryptk|werk> Senk: ^^^?
Jan 14 07:19:38 <Senk> cryptk|werk: create a username and pass so i can logg in from my mac via a ftp client
Jan 14 07:19:49 <cryptk|werk> ahh
Jan 14 07:21:07 <cryptk|werk> Senk: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps
Jan 14 07:21:12 <cryptk|werk> make sure to read the box at the top
Jan 14 07:21:35 <rwhitby> Senk: what instructions are you following?
Jan 14 07:21:54 <cryptk|werk> I jsut pointed him to the SFTP instructions on the wiki
Jan 14 07:22:04 <cryptk|werk> on how to do the SSH keys and such
Jan 14 07:22:07 <rwhitby> cryptk|werk: I meant before that :-)
Jan 14 07:22:11 <cryptk|werk> ahh
Jan 14 07:22:13 <cryptk|werk> lol
Jan 14 07:22:41 * rwhitby crosses fingers for no unknown packages now ...
Jan 14 07:22:41 <Senk> cryptk|werk: I have to do Optware setup next correct?
Jan 14 07:23:01 <rwhitby> Senk: you didn't read the top of that page, did you?
Jan 14 07:23:06 <cryptk|werk> no, just follow the directions in the box at the top of that wiki page
Jan 14 07:23:37 <Senk> cryptk|werk: I did, lol.
Jan 14 07:23:49 <cryptk|werk> did you do what it says?
Jan 14 07:23:58 <cryptk|werk> you have preware installed right?
Jan 14 07:24:05 <Senk> cryptk|werk: I cant find optware in preware
Jan 14 07:24:13 <Senk> cryptk|werk: Off course, ;)
Jan 14 07:24:15 <cryptk|werk> go to list of everything and type in sftp
Jan 14 07:24:23 <cryptk|werk> it is under linux applications
Jan 14 07:24:30 <cryptk|werk> then Optware is in there
Jan 14 07:24:39 <rwhitby> Senk: please repeat here what it says in the pink box at the top of http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps
Jan 14 07:24:40 <cryptk|werk> but you can find it in list of everything as well
Jan 14 07:25:07 <Senk> cryptk|werk: when i type sftp nothing comes up
Jan 14 07:25:23 <cryptk|werk> rwhitby: he said he can't find the optware section in preware... I am going form memory here but I think it is Linux Applications > Optware
Jan 14 07:25:29 <cryptk|werk> don't have my pre on me
Jan 14 07:25:29 <rwhitby> Senk: what do you have for the URL associated with the webos-internals feed in the Manage Feeds page?
Jan 14 07:25:56 <Senk> rwhitby: I see Optware there but when i search for sftp nothing comes up.
Jan 14 07:25:57 * rwhitby guesses it says "feed"
Jan 14 07:26:13 <rwhitby> Senk: what is the URL listed there
Jan 14 07:26:34 <Senk> rwhitby: under optware? it says feed only
Jan 14 07:26:40 <rwhitby> bingo
Jan 14 07:26:53 <rwhitby> Senk: how did you install the Package Manager Service?
Jan 14 07:27:34 <Senk> rwhitby: i updated it along with preware with the "preUpdate" app
Jan 14 07:28:01 <rwhitby> Um, what is the "preUpdate" app, and which Preware instructions say that you can use that to update Preware?
Jan 14 07:28:44 * rwhitby celebrates no Unknown packages in Preware :-)
Jan 14 07:29:22 * cryptk|werk synflood rwhitby -> syn syn syn syn syn syn
Jan 14 07:29:40 <cryptk|werk> can't let you have all sucess, gotta knock ya down a little, lol
Jan 14 07:29:44 <rwhitby> Senk: What does the Updating section at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Updating say?
Jan 14 07:30:29 <dBsooner> just commited the first set of patches via the portal
Jan 14 07:30:34 <dBsooner> 6 new, 3 updates
Jan 14 07:30:42 <rwhitby> dBsooner: much easier?
Jan 14 07:30:43 <Senk> rwhitby: to update via preware and do package manager first :/
Jan 14 07:30:47 <dBsooner> much!
Jan 14 07:31:12 <dBsooner> only thing that would make it easier is somehow getting the screenshots to OSUOSL server without me having to "Upload File" manually
Jan 14 07:31:13 <dBsooner> ...
Jan 14 07:31:29 <rwhitby> Senk: http://install.preware.org - you need to reinstall the Package Manager Service, cause whatever "preUpdate" is, it cannot update packages properly,
Jan 14 07:31:56 <cryptk|werk> rwhitby: WosQI is a "supported" update method also right
Jan 14 07:32:05 <rwhitby> dBsooner: can you send me an email please, with the requirements (not a proposed solution) ?
Jan 14 07:32:14 <Senk> rwhitby: so that means gotta remove it whit webOS QI and then reinstall?
Jan 14 07:32:22 <rwhitby> cryptk|werk: nope, once you have Preware running, there is no need to use anything else.
Jan 14 07:32:27 <rwhitby> Senk: yep
Jan 14 07:32:38 <dBsooner> rwhitby: In other words a detailed solution? Or what I "want to be able to do"?
Jan 14 07:32:41 <cryptk|werk> well, I didn't mean update method, I meant "initial isntall method"
Jan 14 07:32:54 <rwhitby> dBsooner: requirements, not solution.
Jan 14 07:32:55 <Senk> rwhitby: how about my patches/apps ive installed? those are fine or i need to delete everything?
Jan 14 07:33:00 <dBsooner> gotcha
Jan 14 07:33:13 <cryptk|werk> Senk: the patches and apps can stay
Jan 14 07:33:16 <rwhitby> Senk: depends whether you used the "preUpdate" thing for them too ...
Jan 14 07:33:23 <cryptk|werk> good point rwhitby
Jan 14 07:33:35 <Zuchmir2> is there any way to add custom feed to preware?
Jan 14 07:33:40 <cryptk|werk> but if they were installed through preware or WosQI they *should* be fine
Jan 14 07:33:43 <Senk> rwhitby: only thing ive update with that app is preware/package manager service
Jan 14 07:33:56 <cryptk|werk> bbiab, mandatory smoke break
Jan 14 07:34:02 <cryptk|werk> gotta love Gov't jobs...
Jan 14 07:34:02 <rwhitby> Senk: yeah, bad mistake :-)
Jan 14 07:34:35 <Senk> rwhitby: i learned my lesson. I delete that preware app already lol.
Jan 14 07:34:40 <cryptk|werk> rwhitby: if you want I can do a little formatting work on the preware.org install page... that thing is horrid to read ATM
Jan 14 07:34:49 <rwhitby> cryptk|werk: please do
Jan 14 07:35:08 <cryptk|werk> can I get access to update it myself, or do you want me to make an update and send it to you
Jan 14 07:35:21 <cryptk|werk> bbiab
Jan 14 07:36:38 <Senk> whats the modem firmware?
Jan 14 07:36:42 <dBsooner> rwhitby: can you fire the build script. I had a borked Makefile in the last run
Jan 14 07:37:31 <Senk> rwhitby: luna restart required after deleting preware/package manager?
Jan 14 07:37:37 <Robi_> Zuchmir2: yep, make a new conf file and get the repo urls correct
Jan 14 07:37:39 <destinal> Zuchmir2: hey!
Jan 14 07:38:34 <Robi_> use other conf files as examples
Jan 14 07:39:03 <Zuchmir2> destinal: hi
Jan 14 07:39:22 <rwhitby> dBsooner: done
Jan 14 07:39:29 <Zuchmir2> robi: i want users to be able to add a feed easily
Jan 14 07:39:30 <dBsooner> rwhitby: thanks
Jan 14 07:39:44 <rwhitby> ~testing-feed
Jan 14 07:39:46 <infobot> i guess testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds
Jan 14 07:39:46 <Robi_> Zuchmir2: that's coming in a newer ver of preware
Jan 14 07:39:50 <destinal> Zuchmir2:   msg'd
Jan 14 07:40:00 <rwhitby> Zuchmir2: for the moment see that page
Jan 14 07:40:19 <rwhitby> Zuchmir2: or just use the Palm Web Channel, and then give them the URL
Jan 14 07:41:50 * rwhitby bbl
Jan 14 07:56:00 <cryptk|werk> Senk: I do not believe that a luna restart is required after removing preware and the ipkgservice, only a java restart
Jan 14 07:56:16 <cryptk|werk> Senk: what is your question about the modem firmware?
Jan 14 07:56:41 <Senk> cryptk|werk: i did a full restart just to be safe.
Jan 14 07:56:54 <Senk> cryptk|werk: am i suppose to install OpenSSH or OpenSSh Server?
Jan 14 07:57:49 <Zuchmir2> rwhitby: thanks
Jan 14 07:57:54 <cryptk|werk> Senk: do you have preware reinstalled? with a supported method?
Jan 14 07:58:16 <Senk> cryptk|werk: yep
Jan 14 07:58:31 <cryptk|werk> Senk: do you have SFTP installed?
Jan 14 07:59:36 <Senk> cryptk|werk: yep
Jan 14 08:00:18 <destinal> good night all
Jan 14 08:00:19 <cryptk|werk> Senk: did you go to the OpenSSH package homepage?
Jan 14 08:00:24 <cryptk|werk> goodnight destinal
Jan 14 08:00:37 <Senk> cryptk|werk: nope. i cant find it
Jan 14 08:01:23 <Senk> cryptk|werk: i want to create a username an password so only I can acces the linux system in my Pre. Just to be safe you know.
Jan 14 08:01:33 <cryptk|werk> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH
Jan 14 08:01:38 <cryptk|werk> that is what we are doing with the keys
Jan 14 08:01:49 <cryptk|werk> the keys is a better way than username and password
Jan 14 08:03:02 <cryptk|werk> we are making it to where you can  connect fia SSH/SFTP with just a username
Jan 14 08:03:05 <cryptk|werk> basically
Jan 14 08:03:13 <cryptk|werk> and the key makes sure it is you
Jan 14 08:03:30 <cryptk|werk> think of it this way, you will have a username and the password part is handled automagically
Jan 14 08:03:37 <cryptk|werk> as long as you are on your home computer
Jan 14 08:04:37 <cryptk|werk> that wiki page shows how to generate the keys and place them in the proper locations
Jan 14 08:04:42 <Senk> cryptk|werk: how about if i want to log in from work or my parents house?
Jan 14 08:05:25 <Senk> cryptk|werk: i think having my own password is better since im not always at home
Jan 14 08:05:37 <Senk> :/
Jan 14 08:06:38 <cryptk|werk> you can still username and password it
Jan 14 08:06:51 <cryptk|werk> the keys just amke it to where if you are at home it is not needed
Jan 14 08:07:03 <cryptk|werk> because there wll already be a trust relationship with your home computer
Jan 14 08:07:06 <cryptk|werk> via the keys
Jan 14 08:07:14 <cryptk|werk> just follow the directions
Jan 14 08:07:49 <Senk> cryptk|werk: so i just type those commands on the terminal app i have on my Pre, right?
Jan 14 08:08:04 <cryptk|werk> is taht what it says on the wiki page?
Jan 14 08:08:09 <cryptk|werk> s/taht/that/
Jan 14 08:08:10 <infobot> cryptk|werk meant: is that what it says on the wiki page?
Jan 14 08:08:49 <cryptk|werk> hang on a tick
Jan 14 08:08:56 <cryptk|werk> you are wanting more than jsut SFTP?
Jan 14 08:09:27 <cryptk|werk> then jsut follow the next steps page
Jan 14 08:09:29 <Senk> cryptk|werk: i just want to be able to acces my pictures/music/movies and transfer them back and forth.
Jan 14 08:10:06 <cryptk|werk> then just put the phone in USB mode and plug it into a computer
Jan 14 08:10:11 <cryptk|werk> you don't need FTP for that
Jan 14 08:10:47 <cryptk|werk> just use the USB cable and put it on the USB partition
Jan 14 08:11:02 <cryptk|werk> the pictures music and movies will show up in the app as long as they are on the USB drive
Jan 14 08:12:52 <cryptk|werk> why did you want to set up FTP?
Jan 14 08:13:44 <cryptk|werk> Senk: ^^^?
Jan 14 08:14:18 <Senk> cryptk|werk: i just set it up using the Next Steps instructions. I created a password and username :)
Jan 14 08:14:54 <Senk> cryptk|werk: says "Setup Complete"
Jan 14 08:15:02 <cryptk|werk> ok, but why do you want to use FTP for that?
Jan 14 08:15:09 <cryptk|werk> you can just put them on the USB partition
Jan 14 08:15:24 <cryptk|werk> plug the phone into the computer with the cord and copy them over
Jan 14 08:15:59 <cryptk|werk> much easier and faster IMHO
Jan 14 08:17:51 <cryptk|werk> unless you wanted to send pics vids etc to the phone when you don't have it on you... but then again, why do that when you can't see them since you don't ahve the phone on you...
Jan 14 08:18:05 <Senk> cryptk|werk: its actually faster former via shh lol
Jan 14 08:18:33 <cryptk|werk> actually, it would be slower...
Jan 14 08:19:13 <cryptk|werk> plug it in... drag drop... and faster transfer speeds
Jan 14 08:22:47 <KEYofR> it's no ones place to tell someone else he doesn't want to do something. he wants to move files via sftp without dealing with keys simple as that. It's completely handy and I agree.
Jan 14 08:24:13 <Robi_> oh great
Jan 14 08:24:32 <Robi_> removing the airplane mode from the device menu disables the power button one
Jan 14 08:24:42 <Robi_> you can click it but it doesn't actually do anything
Jan 14 08:26:49 <Senk> Hmm im getting a connection timeout when trying to connect via ssh
Jan 14 08:26:49 <cryptk|werk> KEYofR: I wasn't telling him not to do it, I was jsut curious as to why
Jan 14 08:27:18 <cryptk|werk> what command are you using to connect? (no password or username needed)
Jan 14 08:28:15 <cryptk|werk> KEYofR: actually I believe I was the one that pointed him to the enxt steps page
Jan 14 08:28:42 <cryptk|werk> s/enxt/next/
Jan 14 08:28:43 <infobot> cryptk|werk meant: KEYofR: actually I believe I was the one that pointed him to the next steps page
Jan 14 08:29:14 <Senk> cryptk|werk: Im using FileZilla on osx to connect
Jan 14 08:29:47 <cryptk|werk> are you trying to SSH over EVDO or WiFi?
Jan 14 08:30:26 <Senk> cryptk|werk: WiFi
Jan 14 08:30:47 <cryptk|werk> are you giving it the correct IP?  probably starts with 192.168.
Jan 14 08:30:51 <Senk> cryptk|werk: I have full service but im connected to WiFi as well
Jan 14 08:31:20 <KEYofR> edited the firewall rules to allow the traffic?
Jan 14 08:31:25 <Senk> cryptk|werk: I went to WhatismyIP.com and it gives me a diff one. Doesnt start with 192.168
Jan 14 08:31:42 <cryptk|werk> yeah, that is going to be your external IP, you need the phones internal ip
Jan 14 08:31:48 <KEYofR> type "ip addr"  that will show both
Jan 14 08:31:48 <cryptk|werk> o ifocnfig at the comand line
Jan 14 08:31:56 <cryptk|werk> ip addr will also
Jan 14 08:31:56 <KEYofR> or install the whatismyip app
Jan 14 08:32:02 <cryptk|werk> and is probably easier
Jan 14 08:32:29 <cryptk|werk> ifconfig can be a little confusing if you don't know what you are looking at... stick with KEYofR's advice
Jan 14 08:32:47 <cryptk|werk> but that is your problem... wrong IP address
Jan 14 08:33:00 <Senk> cryptk|werk: thanks appreciate ur help
Jan 14 08:33:14 <cryptk|werk> no problem... were you able to get in over SSH?
Jan 14 08:33:29 <Senk> cryptk|werk: havent tried it that way
Jan 14 08:33:31 <KEYofR> I use the whatismuyip app myself even though I know all the backend commands. It's the handiest
Jan 14 08:33:48 <Robi_> ok.. i turn off the phone turn on wifi try to install an app from the app catalog and the phone locks and reboots wtf
Jan 14 08:33:56 <Senk> KEYpfR: where can i get the app? App Catalog?
Jan 14 08:34:02 <KEYofR> preware
Jan 14 08:34:14 <cryptk|werk> prewae only as far as I know
Jan 14 08:34:15 <KEYofR> hmm, might be one in app cat too
Jan 14 08:34:22 <cryptk|werk> it could be
Jan 14 08:34:27 <cryptk|werk> I haven't looked for it there
Jan 14 08:34:43 <cryptk|werk> I install pretty much everything through preware... I have very few app catalog apps...
Jan 14 08:34:47 <Senk> cryptk|werk: no app cat just searched, 0 results.
Jan 14 08:34:50 <Robi_> bah i want to disable all paid apps in preware
Jan 14 08:34:51 <cryptk|werk> although NFS is a really nice app catalog app, lol
Jan 14 08:35:03 <cryptk|werk> alright, preware definitely has it though
Jan 14 08:35:43 <Senk> 0 results for whatismyip in preware, hmm
Jan 14 08:36:40 <cryptk|werk> lemme find it...
Jan 14 08:36:49 <Senk> is it the MyIP app?
Jan 14 08:36:54 <cryptk|werk> that is probably it
Jan 14 08:36:58 <cryptk|werk> he may have renamed it
Jan 14 08:37:01 <KEYofR> There are at least TWO in app cat. nerd tools and MyIP
Jan 14 08:37:21 <Senk> MyIP cost $0.99
Jan 14 08:37:27 <KEYofR> but if you have preware I'd use the one called whatismyip from there
Jan 14 08:37:30 <cryptk|werk> lemme look in preware
Jan 14 08:37:45 <cryptk|werk> [02:35] <Senk> 0 results for whatismyip in preware, hmm
Jan 14 08:37:53 <Robi_> what is my ip shows up in preware
Jan 14 08:38:08 <Robi_> type slower
Jan 14 08:38:14 <Robi_> stop at what in the search
Jan 14 08:38:31 <cryptk|werk> senk it has spaces in the name
Jan 14 08:38:36 <cryptk|werk> What is my IP?
Jan 14 08:38:40 <cryptk|werk> free in preware
Jan 14 08:38:48 <Robi_> my ip is payware damnit
Jan 14 08:38:57 <Senk> Robi_: cryptk|werk: got it i was typing to fast lol
Jan 14 08:39:05 <cryptk|werk> haha
Jan 14 08:39:15 <cryptk|werk> yeah, I found it by seaching for 'what'
Jan 14 08:39:15 <Robi_> Senk: you'll never hear that on an iPhone
Jan 14 08:39:30 <Robi_> altho i've gotten some good speeds there
Jan 14 08:40:08 <Senk> Interesting it gives me IP for EDVO and WiFI, nicceee!
Jan 14 08:40:31 <cryptk|werk> yep
Jan 14 08:40:35 <cryptk|werk> use the WiFi IP
Jan 14 08:40:43 <cryptk|werk> does it start with 192.168?
Jan 14 08:41:40 <Senk> cryptk|werk: yeah it does
Jan 14 08:41:43 <KEYofR> grrr damned terminal vs webos 1.3.5.x  lock&reboot again...
Jan 14 08:41:54 <cryptk|werk> destinal-sleep: was working on that
Jan 14 08:41:57 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: hey do you have a second? wanna help test my latest build of vba?
Jan 14 08:42:03 <KEYofR> Did destinal ever make a debug version so we can find out whats going on?
Jan 14 08:42:22 <cryptk|werk> dtzWill: is there a wget for it?
Jan 14 08:42:24 <KEYofR> dtz I do!
Jan 14 08:42:38 <Senk> Connection closed by server with exitcode
Jan 14 08:42:39 <Senk> ugh!
Jan 14 08:42:59 <cryptk|werk> KEYofR: I don't know of any debug version... he did do quite a big of debugging here in teh chat though
Jan 14 08:43:08 <cryptk|werk> what was the exitcode?
Jan 14 08:43:30 <Senk> 2147483647
Jan 14 08:43:57 <KEYofR> senk I'd try to just ssh with ssh in terminal.app (you're on osx right?) THEN after that works try sftp
Jan 14 08:44:59 <Senk> keyofr yeah osx. how do i do it with ssh?
Jan 14 08:45:21 <KEYofR> just open a terminal (command prompt) and type ssh root@ipaddress
Jan 14 08:45:40 <KEYofR> use the wifi address for starters
Jan 14 08:46:00 <cryptk|werk> KEYofR: you can replace root with whatever username you created
Jan 14 08:46:11 <cryptk|werk> oops, meant to tag Senk in that one...
Jan 14 08:46:14 <KEYofR> if he did
Jan 14 08:46:18 <cryptk|werk> he did
Jan 14 08:46:31 <cryptk|werk> he followed next steps on the wiki
Jan 14 08:46:44 * Robi_ ZzZZ
Jan 14 08:47:39 <Senk> Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive)
Jan 14 08:47:49 <Senk> I get that using terminal.app
Jan 14 08:50:54 <dtzWill> anyone have a better name suggestion than "VisualBoyAdvance for webOS" ? :)
Jan 14 08:52:44 <cryptk|werk> Senk: can you copy/paste the command you used to try and connect?
Jan 14 08:52:54 <cryptk|werk> the one you put in terminal.app
Jan 14 08:53:52 <cryptk|werk> PreBA?
Jan 14 08:53:55 <cryptk|werk> instead of VBA
Jan 14 08:54:06 <Towzzer> man
Jan 14 08:54:12 <Towzzer> how do you prevent your profile from reinstalling packages
Jan 14 08:54:19 <Towzzer> and how come webos doctor doesn't wipe them
Jan 14 08:54:38 <cryptk|werk> because the new doctors don't touch the USB partition
Jan 14 08:54:50 <cryptk|werk> go into the device settings on the phone and choose full erase, then doctor
Jan 14 08:54:57 <cryptk|werk> that will give you a bone stock, empty pre
Jan 14 08:54:59 <Towzzer> nice
Jan 14 08:55:01 <Towzzer> that's what i need
Jan 14 08:55:06 <Towzzer> i keep running out of memory
Jan 14 08:55:14 <Towzzer> after a clean install because of an app i can't mention here
Jan 14 08:55:16 <cryptk|werk> you ahev the whole 8GB full?
Jan 14 08:55:21 <Towzzer> memory
Jan 14 08:55:27 <Towzzer> not disk space
Jan 14 08:55:34 <Senk> cryptk|werk: ssh meckai@192.168.x.x
Jan 14 08:56:18 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: that's significantly better :)
Jan 14 08:56:38 <RxS2k> Hate to but in, but I was wondering if there was a way to fully erase everything when doctoring the pre.
Jan 14 08:57:13 <Towzzer> that's just what I asked
Jan 14 08:57:23 <RxS2k> lol.
Jan 14 08:57:26 <Towzzer> are you mocknig me?
Jan 14 08:57:47 <RxS2k> I wasn't reading. :p
Jan 14 08:58:36 <dBsooner> rwhitby: ping
Jan 14 08:59:00 <rwhitby> yes
Jan 14 08:59:25 <cryptk|werk> RxS2k: Device Info > Reset Options > Full Erase
Jan 14 08:59:27 <cryptk|werk> then doctor
Jan 14 08:59:31 <rwhitby> dtzWill: VisualBoyAdvance by itself is good enough?
Jan 14 08:59:40 <Towzzer> i heard there was a nes and snes emulator
Jan 14 08:59:41 <cryptk|werk> result is bone stock empty pre
Jan 14 08:59:41 <Towzzer> for palm pre
Jan 14 08:59:52 <RxS2k> lol, thanks cryptk
Jan 14 09:00:07 <cryptk|werk> rwhitby: do you know the current status on freetether?
Jan 14 09:00:15 <dtzWill> rwhitby: VisualBoyAdvance by itself is good enough i suppose :).
Jan 14 09:00:26 <dtzWill> rwhitby: it does help make it more recognizable as to what it does, which is a plus
Jan 14 09:00:49 <dtzWill> (most people interesting in gb emus know vba)
Jan 14 09:02:19 <KEYofR> Senk have you edited /etc/ssh/sshd_config to allow password auth? Have you stopped and started opensshd after making that change?
Jan 14 09:02:31 <rwhitby> KEYofR: it's in the upstart scrtip
Jan 14 09:02:56 <Senk> KEYofR: nope i havent
Jan 14 09:03:06 <Senk> KEYofR: how can it be edited?
Jan 14 09:03:16 <KEYofR> rwhitby, what, the control that says allow or deny password auth?
Jan 14 09:03:23 <KEYofR> cmdline opts?
Jan 14 09:04:29 <KEYofR> (I don't use openssh on the pre so I don't know the details of the preware installation)
Jan 14 09:06:33 <KEYofR> dtz: managed to reboot my pre with vba. was pretty neat though till it crashed ;)
Jan 14 09:07:16 <KEYofR> moonpatrol/pyhunter.gbc  no config file and no cmdline opts
Jan 14 09:07:29 <dtzWill> KEYofR: while it was running?? o_O okay
Jan 14 09:08:08 <KEYofR> yeah it got slow and stopped responding to button presses. I pressed a lot of random buttons and then it rebooted.
Jan 14 09:08:35 <dtzWill> KEYofR: holy damn. uh okay. that certainly never happened to me :(. but i guess this is why we test...
Jan 14 09:08:51 <KEYofR> you want the gbc ?
Jan 14 09:09:20 <Towzzer> can someone make a ps3 emulator
Jan 14 09:09:33 <dtzWill> KEYofR: please, or a md5sum of it or something so i can see if that happens here.
Jan 14 09:09:35 <KEYofR> http://brian.aljex.com/shared/MoonPatrol_SpyHunter.gbc
Jan 14 09:09:43 <dBsooner> rwhitby: sorry.. you didn't ping me back
Jan 14 09:09:48 <dBsooner> rwhitby: so I didn't know you replied.. lol..
Jan 14 09:10:24 <dBsooner> rwhitby: anyway.. I can't figure out why git.webos-internals.org is showing me as my server's username.. and not my git config user.name
Jan 14 09:12:18 <KEYofR> dtz: puffs new evas terminal crashed me too, and regular terminal does usually right at exit. Other than those 3 things I actually have no problems. I don't use Classic though, I think that would crash it too. It did a couple times and I stopped using it.
Jan 14 09:12:24 <Senk> KEYofR: any idea?
Jan 14 09:13:21 <dtzWill> KEYofR: the weird thing is that usually it crashes on exit---AND in the course of development vba /never/ crashed luna (quake, for example, did all the time)
Jan 14 09:13:22 <KEYofR> it was just for audible.com but I deal with that by converting .aa to .mp3 on my pc with dbpoweramp and the helix mp3 encoder.
Jan 14 09:13:34 <dtzWill> KEYofR: trying it, just played a bunch of moonpatrol :D
Jan 14 09:13:59 <Senk> KEYofR: Whats that MoonPatrol?
Jan 14 09:14:08 <KEYofR> dtz: actually, I never even went into moonpatrol, only spy hunter
Jan 14 09:14:21 <KEYofR> I just wanted spy hunter
Jan 14 09:15:34 <cryptk|werk> Senk: that is a gameboy ROM for the emulator that dtzWill is working on
Jan 14 09:16:20 <dtzWill> KEYofR: doesn't seem to be specific to the rom :(
Jan 14 09:16:23 <Senk> cryptk|werk: oh alright. any ideas to why im getting that error?
Jan 14 09:16:35 <KEYofR> Senk: we're talking about a rom file copy of a GameBoy cartridge that has two games , Moon Patrol and Spy Hunter, and we are playing this and other rom files ina gameboy emulator called vba, which dtzWill has ported from linux to the Pre
Jan 14 09:16:44 <cryptk|werk> oh sorry... give me a few minutes... I am at work...
Jan 14 09:17:08 <Senk> cryptk|werk: np
Jan 14 09:17:09 <dBsooner> nite ya'll
Jan 14 09:17:11 <Towzzer> i have a problem, i tried to turn on developer mode
Jan 14 09:17:14 <Towzzer> but all i got was 30 lives
Jan 14 09:17:29 <dBsooner> got my work done for the nite and stuff tweeted.. time for snooze
Jan 14 09:17:29 <cryptk|werk> Towzzer: ???
Jan 14 09:17:31 <Senk> keyofr: interesting when will it be released? :D
Jan 14 09:17:46 <cryptk|werk> Senk: whenever we get all the bugs worked out
Jan 14 09:18:02 <cryptk|werk> Senk: we try and keep away from setting release dates and instead release them when they are ready
Jan 14 09:18:24 <cryptk|werk> what I do mostly is beta test stuff (esp the stuff that dtzWill writes/ports) to help get things out there
Jan 14 09:18:24 <KEYofR> define released? You can grab a copy right now if you want. it's not going to be in preware or app catalog for a little bit yet probably since he's still working on it.
Jan 14 09:18:29 <Senk> cryptk|werk: alrighty, sounds fair to me.
Jan 14 09:18:48 <cryptk|werk> KEYofR: I am pretty sure he meant "when will it show up in preware"
Jan 14 09:18:53 <dtzWill> dBsooner: night :)
Jan 14 09:18:53 <KEYofR> heh
Jan 14 09:19:53 <dtzWill> so the rom selector isn't too terrible? i wrote that absolutely from scratch using just sdl calls haha
Jan 14 09:20:05 <dtzWill> did you try having more roms than fits on the screen? it'll scroll! :D
Jan 14 09:20:08 <KEYofR> I know but I only cater to people who pay me to, everyone else either learns to communicate clearly or lives without communication ;)
Jan 14 09:20:15 * dtzWill is proud of implementing basic gui functionality
Jan 14 09:20:40 <cryptk|werk> dtzWill: that kinda threw me off, I tried to launch it the old way (specifying rom on terminal) and vba launched and informed me that I had to put them in a roms folder... threw me off, but nice touch
Jan 14 09:20:45 <cryptk|werk> def adds to useability
Jan 14 09:21:06 <cryptk|werk> dtzWill: the rate that you figure this stuff out amazes me
Jan 14 09:21:10 <KEYofR> dtz I love it. if it has shortcomings, they aren't apparent when you have only 3 roms with reasonably short names that fit on screen
Jan 14 09:21:37 <hans> hello
Jan 14 09:21:42 <Towzzer> hey hans
Jan 14 09:21:53 <Guest93961> i meh
Jan 14 09:22:01 <Towzzer> hans do you need help?
Jan 14 09:22:02 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: great. well the idea is that no one will ever run from command line except if they're debugging. sorry it threw you off though. :)
Jan 14 09:22:03 <Guest93961> ok, so i'm a guest apparently :)
Jan 14 09:22:28 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: b/c it'll eventually be launched via upstart/etc so no rom command line
Jan 14 09:22:43 <dtzWill> KEYofR: great :D. glad you do. i tried to keep it simple and functional so hopefully it succeeded on those fronts
Jan 14 09:22:43 <Guest93961> my question: is there a terminal application for webos i can use for screen/irssi/mutt?
Jan 14 09:22:48 <cryptk|werk> Guest93961: set your nick with '/nick desired name'
Jan 14 09:22:59 <cryptk|werk> Guest93961: does it have to be terminal?
Jan 14 09:23:07 <cryptk|werk> wIRC does IRC
Jan 14 09:23:12 <Guest93961> NickServ just renamed me to GuestXXX
Jan 14 09:23:21 <dtzWill> (does screen/irrsi/mutt not work on the existing terminal?)
Jan 14 09:23:22 <KEYofR> I kinda don't like the generic dir name "roms" but, if the selector maybe filtered only gb gbc gba filenames so that other roms would not show up then I guess its ok.
Jan 14 09:23:27 <Guest93961> yeah, but it needs to be a terminal application
Jan 14 09:23:31 <Guest93961> ssh and stuff
Jan 14 09:23:42 <Guest93961> which existing terminal?
Jan 14 09:23:44 <Senk> i just tried SSH into my pre using TErminal.app with ssh -p 222 PRE-USERNAME@YOUR-PRE-IP-ADDR and it worked. I wonder why it doesnt with FileZilla
Jan 14 09:23:46 <cryptk|werk> well, you could always install irssi....
Jan 14 09:23:53 <KEYofR> and of coutrse as a first step it's a zillion times better than no selector
Jan 14 09:24:07 <cryptk|werk> Senk: is the port set correctly in FileZilla
Jan 14 09:24:16 <Guest93961> i have irssi/mutt/slrn running on a server and use it from any computer i use
Jan 14 09:24:21 <dtzWill> KEYofR: it should filter exactly like that already
Jan 14 09:24:35 <Towzzer> i can't get 1080p with trueHD to play
Jan 14 09:24:39 <dtzWill> KEYofR: but i can make it any directory, obviously. you think "vbaroms" or somehting would be better?
Jan 14 09:24:45 <KEYofR> dtz terrific then
Jan 14 09:24:46 <Senk> cryptk|werk: im trying port 22 and says connection timed out.
Jan 14 09:25:07 <Guest93961> e.g. from my nokia via the symbian putty port
Jan 14 09:25:08 <cryptk|werk> Senk change it to port 222
Jan 14 09:25:38 <Guest93961> this would be a 'must have' feature if i'd get a pre
Jan 14 09:25:49 <KEYofR> why is his openssh listening on 222? I thought those were the obsolete directions?
Jan 14 09:25:53 <cryptk|werk> since port 222 is what worked at the command line, it would make sense to use that port in FileZilla
Jan 14 09:25:59 <Senk> cryptk|werk: Status:	Connection established, waiting for welcome message... Response:	SSH-2.0-dropbear_0.52 Error:	Cannot establish FTP connection to an SFTP server. Please select proper protocol. Error:	Critical error Error:	Could not connect to server
Jan 14 09:26:05 <Towzzer> hey
Jan 14 09:26:07 <Towzzer> you need to use scp
Jan 14 09:26:15 <Towzzer> no?
Jan 14 09:26:31 <KEYofR> sftp
Jan 14 09:26:43 <cryptk|werk> Senk: is FileZilla set to use SFTP or FTP?
Jan 14 09:26:51 <cryptk|werk> you need to set it to SFTP since that is what is on the pre
Jan 14 09:27:00 <KEYofR> also... dropbear? I didn't see him say he had installed dropbear?
Jan 14 09:27:20 <dtzWill> KEYofR: that's a vote 'yes' for vbaroms, or filtering is enough? :)
Jan 14 09:27:22 <KEYofR> and, even dropbear uses 22 not 222 currently I thought? mine does
Jan 14 09:27:24 <Towzzer> latest preware is .9.16?
Jan 14 09:27:52 <cryptk|werk> he installed using the Next Steps wiki...
Jan 14 09:27:54 <Senk> cryptk|werk: awesome, i got it !! Im in :D
Jan 14 09:28:21 <KEYofR> dtz: I don't know, it's a fine point if it filyters already. short pathnames are nice too and fewer dirs are nice since often you are typing them in on the pre keyboard.
Jan 14 09:28:25 <Senk> I was trying port 22 all this time
Jan 14 09:28:53 <Senk> I wonder why one page of the wiki says port 22 then the one to test ssh says 222 lol
Jan 14 09:29:51 <KEYofR> I guess filtering in roms is good enough. it imposes a slight artificial limit, like, what if I wanted to name my files with no extension so they look nice in the browser? but, thats anal. it's fine like it is. the files always have extensions from the download sites.
Jan 14 09:31:09 <KEYofR> Senk: when these apps were first ported to the pre, for whatever reason the first developers decided it would be good to run the ssh server on a non-standar port (222), but now, that opinion hasreversed.
Jan 14 09:31:27 <dtzWill> KEYofR: sounds good. i actually intentionally left the extensions ON so that it would be clear which is which (is this the advance version of mario?) shrug.
Jan 14 09:31:42 <dtzWill> KEYofR: but i'm not much of a usability expert hehe, and i'm open to convincing.
Jan 14 09:32:17 <Senk> u guys are awesome. thanks so much for the patience lol :D
Jan 14 09:32:19 <KEYofR> dtz: yeah that is a goosd point
Jan 14 09:32:44 <KEYofR> I say leave it as it is
Jan 14 09:34:13 <dtzWill> KEYofR: okay. sounds good
Jan 14 09:35:07 <KEYofR> if it were a desktop app with even more front-end labor-saving for the user (rom downloader from cut&paste url or filesystem browser like internalz) then a real proper path might be like /media/internal/usr/share/vba/roms  but NO WAY if people still have to go there manually in terminal
Jan 14 09:35:39 <KEYofR> only if the user never has to type all that in and the app just handles it all by itself
Jan 14 09:36:51 <cryptk|werk> <dtzWill> KEYofR: but i'm not much of a usability expert hehe, and i'm open to convincing.
Jan 14 09:36:59 <KEYofR> the way you have it now, its' easy to get to from usb drive mode, and, it's a pre not a server or a desktop, it's ok to make more use of the root dir of a drive to keepo things simple
Jan 14 09:36:59 <cryptk|werk> that was obvious with the quake thumbstick, lol
Jan 14 09:37:23 <cryptk|werk> dtzWill: remember how you were against the thumbstick at first
Jan 14 09:37:29 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: exactly lol. you guys have the good usability ideas :D and i try to make them happen
Jan 14 09:37:33 <cryptk|werk> and it turned into the best thing since sliced bread, lol
Jan 14 09:37:40 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: yep i remmeber, and i love it now. yep :D
Jan 14 09:37:46 <cryptk|werk> dtzWill: that is why you have me and Jack87
Jan 14 09:38:02 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: and that's why you guys are essential :D
Jan 14 09:38:38 <dtzWill> KEYofR: a rom downloader is an idea, but i couldn't see a good way for it to make sense--most sites have some referral thing, and they zip them up..... it just semeed easier to find your nearest computer, plug in, and make it happen.
Jan 14 09:38:57 <dtzWill> KEYofR: although a thought is that when you mount with usb it's no longer /media/internal haha.
Jan 14 09:39:01 <rwhitby> dtzWill: just run the rom in /media/internal/visualboyadvance/game.gba ?
Jan 14 09:39:24 <rwhitby> and the user arranges for something to be at that location
Jan 14 09:39:24 <Senk> ok guys i got another problem. my pre is on read only i cant upload anything to it via sftp. how can i make it read/write?
Jan 14 09:39:25 <dtzWill> rwhitby: no there's a rom selector--it looks for all files matching *.gb, .gbc .gba in /media/internal/roms
Jan 14 09:39:34 <dtzWill> rwhitby: so you can have multiple and pick, etc
Jan 14 09:40:24 <rwhitby> ok, is roms too general?
Jan 14 09:40:37 * rwhitby is big on apps using their own namespaces
Jan 14 09:40:39 <KEYofR> yeah that part is great already. we're not talking wishlist anymore on that :)
Jan 14 09:40:56 <rwhitby> your call
Jan 14 09:41:14 <KEYofR> rwhitby, me too but I just went through all the whys and why nots
Jan 14 09:41:29 <dtzWill> rwhitby: i don't really care haha. i can see good reasons, if there was another gb/a emulator /roms might be selfish to take---it doesn't really matter to me
Jan 14 09:41:36 * rwhitby is busy flashing sprint 1.3.5 (minus sprint stuff and modem) onto GSM, just to see what happens
Jan 14 09:41:36 <dtzWill> rwhitby: i'll just throw it in vbaroms
Jan 14 09:41:52 <rwhitby> vbaroms is good
Jan 14 09:41:55 <dtzWill> rwhitby: i think that'll work essentially the same (oh noes 3 more characters)
Jan 14 09:41:58 <KEYofR> it's a tradeoff in this case. I do NOT want to have a long path since I will have to type it in at the pre keyboard sometimes
Jan 14 09:42:38 <dtzWill> KEYofR: right, but 'vbaroms' is hardly longer
Jan 14 09:42:44 <Senk> rwhitby: i have a gsm pre running sprint rom and works fine
Jan 14 09:43:10 <rwhitby> Senk: sprint rom 1.3.5 ?
Jan 14 09:43:14 <KEYofR> dtz.yeah, in fact, I was using /media/internal/vba myself before the selector existed
Jan 14 09:43:21 <Senk> rwhitby: 1.3.5.1
Jan 14 09:43:38 <rwhitby> Senk: but did you use a 1.3.5 doctor (the one which checks now)
Jan 14 09:43:59 <Senk> keyofr: u know how i can make my pre read/write? i cant upload anything to it via sftp
Jan 14 09:44:01 <KEYofR> which leads to point 2, config file location. ~/.vba ? or /media/internal/vba/cinfig.ini
Jan 14 09:44:24 <Senk> rwhitby: i doctor'd 1.2.1 then updated to 1.3.5.1
Jan 14 09:44:28 <dtzWill> KEYofR: right now i think it's the working directory :/. absolutely should fix that.
Jan 14 09:44:32 * dtzWill makes a TODO list
Jan 14 09:44:34 <Towzzer> what does drop bear do?
Jan 14 09:44:42 <rwhitby> KEYofR: there should be one dir under /media/internal/<foo> and it should have everything in it that the user has to modify
Jan 14 09:45:02 <KEYofR> rwhi agreed
Jan 14 09:45:18 <rwhitby> Senk: right, I am working on meta-doctor support
Jan 14 09:45:26 <KEYofR> unless we want to allow for multi user
Jan 14 09:45:36 <rwhitby> anyone can upgrade from an old doctor version that didn't have the compatibility check :-)
Jan 14 09:45:43 <dtzWill> alright /media/internal/vba/roms it is, with /vba being all the vba-specific stuff :)
Jan 14 09:45:55 <rwhitby> dtzWill: works for me
Jan 14 09:46:23 <Towzzer> ohhhhh you know what would be really cool, an imager for palm pre
Jan 14 09:46:27 <Towzzer> to save all your configs and patches
Jan 14 09:46:34 <rwhitby> heh - i get a choice: "Pseudoland"
Jan 14 09:46:37 <Towzzer> so if it messes up later you can restore it , like webdoctor
Jan 14 09:46:56 * rwhitby chooses English/Pseudoland
Jan 14 09:47:29 <Senk> rwhitby: whats difference between GSM and sprint modem?
Jan 14 09:48:37 <rwhitby> 100%
Jan 14 09:49:25 <Senk> anyone know how i can set full read/write permission on my pre?
Jan 14 09:50:52 <rwhitby> heh, Pseudoland no good for logging into palm profile it seems
Jan 14 09:51:33 <rwhitby> hmm - worked second time
Jan 14 09:52:37 <Guest93961> ok, how would i go about trying to compile sdlterm?
Jan 14 09:53:24 <joshua> very carefully
Jan 14 09:53:39 <Guest93961> i can do that
Jan 14 09:53:44 <cryptk|werk> Senk: where are you trying to transfer the file to?
Jan 14 09:54:10 <Senk> cryptk|werk: my pictures folder
Jan 14 09:54:23 <cryptk|werk> under /media/internal/?
Jan 14 09:55:22 <dray_Jr> anyone know if the pre is able to run the messenger program(if develpoed that is) Xfire. because someone stated to me i that the palm SDK kit dose not support TCP/ip sockets so it is not possible at this time
Jan 14 09:56:12 <Senk> cryptk|werk: yeah
Jan 14 09:56:47 <cryptk|werk> what error is filezilla giving you?
Jan 14 09:57:07 <dtzWill> god i love golden sun, even at 80% haha
Jan 14 09:58:01 <Senk> cryptk|werk: open for write: permission denied
Jan 14 09:59:28 <swisstomcat> morning
Jan 14 10:01:44 <cryptk|werk> seems like an account permissions problem...
Jan 14 10:01:58 <cryptk|werk> I can't work on it now though, I am at work and just got a bunch of stuff dropped on my desk...
Jan 14 10:02:07 * rwhitby adds REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK, REMOVE_MODEL_CHECK, and DISABLE_MODEM_UPDATE to meta-doctor
Jan 14 10:02:11 <KEYofR> sigh... I just love having to deal with other companies that assume everyone in the world has windows server you can install their stuff on, and they offer no other way to interoperate than via their piece of crap windows client...
Jan 14 10:02:58 <swisstomcat> keyofr: get on with the rest of the world and install windows server already :)
Jan 14 10:03:30 <Senk> rwhitby: whats the Modem_update for?
Jan 14 10:03:49 <Senk> cryptk|werk: No problem,just help when u can. No rush here
Jan 14 10:04:51 <KEYofR> screw that, you know how many linux server I myself admin, with only part of my time while the rest of the time I develop software and new overall system architecture and integration and backup systems etc...? why in the WORLD would I want to give up that sanity and reliability and manpower efficiency?
Jan 14 10:05:18 <swisstomcat> i was kidding of course
Jan 14 10:05:25 <KEYofR> swiss I know ;)
Jan 14 10:06:07 <KEYofR> because if you were serious you'd have said "how do you have a company without any servers???"
Jan 14 10:07:56 <rwhitby> ok, time to add keyboard changing to the meta-doctor proper
Jan 14 10:09:32 <swisstomcat> or "what is a server"? i only know office
Jan 14 10:10:53 <swisstomcat> anyway
Jan 14 10:10:58 <swisstomcat> what's new?
Jan 14 10:19:46 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: preware working ok for you?
Jan 14 10:20:38 <KEYofR> swiss: whats new, one thing: dtz just added a gui rom selector to vba and fixed the aspect ratio
Jan 14 10:21:29 <swisstomcat> gba?
Jan 14 10:21:30 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: yeah, no problems so far
Jan 14 10:21:55 <rwhitby> visualboyadvance
Jan 14 10:25:29 <swisstomcat> i figured out a google maps api to use in my app but looks like its not allowed what i do
Jan 14 10:27:07 <swisstomcat> bbiab, lunch
Jan 14 11:13:41 <dtzWill> does fbcat not work on opengl apps? :(
Jan 14 11:14:24 <swisstomcat> rehi
Jan 14 11:14:31 <dtzWill> also idk if this is common knowledge, but someone asked a while back how app store apps knew they were supposed to pause
Jan 14 11:14:46 <dtzWill> but SDL sends an event 'SDL_ACTIVEEVENT' that tells you when your card is active/not.
Jan 14 11:23:59 <rwhitby> dtzWill: so, are we ready for packaging VBA ?
Jan 14 11:25:11 <dtzWill> rwhitby: well i was gonna give it a shot at least locally. i don't have things on my todo other than "make it run faster" so yeah i guess i am ready
Jan 14 11:26:49 <dtzWill> rwhitby: unless you want to? :). just figured i'd save you the bother, well that and it was quiet here hehe
Jan 14 11:27:24 <psykoz> vba ?
Jan 14 11:27:44 <dtzWill> psykoz: visualboyadvance, i'm just lazy and it's lots of chars :P
Jan 14 11:27:46 <psykoz> I didn't really get to watch chat here that much yesterday, busy day and went to bed early
Jan 14 11:27:52 <psykoz> oh, hot
Jan 14 11:28:02 <psykoz> packaging for preware feed as in soon?
Jan 14 11:28:15 <rwhitby> dtzWill: how about you take a shot at it, and I'll review?
Jan 14 11:28:48 <rwhitby> dtzWill: put it in preware/build/unreleased/visualboyadvance
Jan 14 11:28:51 <dtzWill> rwhitby: that sounds great :). i'll ping you when i have it in. i just wont tag the source then?
Jan 14 11:28:57 <dtzWill> rwhitby: oh, that works too. great
Jan 14 11:29:02 <rwhitby> you can tag the source any time
Jan 14 11:29:13 * psykoz yawns
Jan 14 11:29:15 <rwhitby> and then build the ipkg in the unreleased dir
Jan 14 11:29:25 <rwhitby> you can even then commit and push that so I can see it.
Jan 14 11:29:26 <psykoz> I hate it when I go to bed early (10pm) and wake up at 4am
Jan 14 11:29:36 <rwhitby> dtzWill: and I can then put that in the testing feed
Jan 14 11:29:54 <psykoz> I typically go to sleep at 1am and wake at 7am, so it's like my body only wants to do 6 hours of sleep no matter what time I go to bed or how tired I am
Jan 14 11:30:15 <dtzWill> rwhitby: oh there's a testing feed! sweet :) haha
Jan 14 11:36:04 <Towzzer> i sleep 12 hours
Jan 14 11:36:35 <psykoz> i've never been able to do that
Jan 14 11:37:17 <psykoz> I wish I could, I've been lucky to get 6 hours since having my kid.  Prior to him being born I had even more energy and would only sleep 4 hours
Jan 14 11:37:18 <KEYofR> keeping it topical, I sleep on my pre
Jan 14 11:37:28 <psykoz> keyofr, same here
Jan 14 11:37:29 <Towzzer> what's the best pre app
Jan 14 11:37:30 <Towzzer> ever
Jan 14 11:37:38 <swisstomcat> preware
Jan 14 11:37:39 <psykoz> usually load up DrPodder and fall asleep
Jan 14 11:37:42 <Towzzer> touche
Jan 14 11:37:47 <Towzzer> best pre app besides preware
Jan 14 11:37:51 <psykoz> DrPodder
Jan 14 11:37:59 <KEYofR> terminal
Jan 14 11:37:59 <swisstomcat> paratroopers?
Jan 14 11:38:05 <Towzzer> terminal is broken right now
Jan 14 11:38:08 <Towzzer> it can't be the best
Jan 14 11:38:10 <psykoz> huh
Jan 14 11:38:21 <KEYofR> sure it can
Jan 14 11:38:35 <psykoz> I use terminal daily, how is it broken?
Jan 14 11:38:44 <Towzzer> what os are you using
Jan 14 11:38:53 <psykoz> 1.3.5.1
Jan 14 11:39:00 <Towzzer> for me it crashes on close
Jan 14 11:39:05 <KEYofR> a broken terminal is still better than all the fart apps and carpeneters levels (on a device without a single flat surface???)
Jan 14 11:39:05 <Towzzer> the developer said that also
Jan 14 11:39:20 <dtzWill> KEYofR: rofl levels haha
Jan 14 11:39:37 <KEYofR> it does crash on close almost 50% of the time on 1.3.5.x
Jan 14 11:39:38 <psykoz> hrrmm, how do you close out, exit or card flick?
Jan 14 11:39:48 <KEYofR> psy: both
Jan 14 11:39:50 <Towzzer> card flick
Jan 14 11:40:13 <psykoz> what's the indicator that it "crashed"
Jan 14 11:40:17 <psykoz> does it leave a deadlocked process around or something?
Jan 14 11:40:21 <Towzzer> luna restarts
Jan 14 11:40:24 <KEYofR> it locks up right at exit equally often whether I type exit or just toss
Jan 14 11:40:40 <psykoz> oh wow
Jan 14 11:40:45 <psykoz> I guess I haven't used terminal in awhile
Jan 14 11:40:51 <psykoz> (made it do Luna restart)
Jan 14 11:40:54 <Towzzer> you said you use it daily
Jan 14 11:41:03 <KEYofR> psy: pre locks up utterly unresponsive, minute or so later pre reboots itself
Jan 14 11:41:20 <Towzzer> according to preware there are 1272 applications
Jan 14 11:41:26 <Towzzer> how am I suppose to know what's good
Jan 14 11:41:42 <KEYofR> well true, it might just be luna restarting not the entire os
Jan 14 11:41:46 <psykoz> Yeah my use case on terminal is that it is open all the time
Jan 14 11:41:51 <psykoz> so I don't exit it
Jan 14 11:42:14 <rwhitby> Towzzer: think of what you need the application do first, and then look for that application in the right section
Jan 14 11:42:19 <KEYofR> ive had it lock up while in normal use also, just a lot more rarely
Jan 14 11:42:24 <cryptk|werk> Towzzer: there are 1272 apps in preware because the new version includes everything it used to have as well as everything in the palm app catalog... app catalog beta apps... weblinked apps...
Jan 14 11:42:26 <psykoz> I terminal in, and then load up ssh to a screen'd irssi session
Jan 14 11:42:57 <Towzzer> wait , there are apps on preware that cost money?
Jan 14 11:43:06 <Towzzer> there is some advanced calculator that asked for 1.99$
Jan 14 11:43:13 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jan 14 11:43:16 <swisstomcat> the palm app catalog feed
Jan 14 11:43:18 <psykoz> It's because Preware now reads the app catalog feed
Jan 14 11:43:33 <psykoz> when you click on that app in Preware it redirects you to the actual app catalog
Jan 14 11:43:38 <psykoz> doesn't install it or anything
Jan 14 11:43:41 <Towzzer> well spank me with a piece of wood and call me mister tullyberry
Jan 14 11:43:43 <Towzzer> that's crazy
Jan 14 11:43:51 <KEYofR> its great
Jan 14 11:43:53 <psykoz> Nah not really crazy
Jan 14 11:43:57 <KEYofR> one-stop-shopping
Jan 14 11:43:58 <psykoz> Palm made the app catalog feed open to everyone
Jan 14 11:44:05 <psykoz> Which is outright awesome
Jan 14 11:44:08 * swisstomcat spanks towzzer with a piece of wood
Jan 14 11:44:19 <joshua> i have the regular app catalog and all the theme stuff disabled so theres less stuff
Jan 14 11:44:53 <FreeTim> almost... i notice that Need for Speed, and Glyde2, and some other games in the App catalog, aren't in the feed
Jan 14 11:45:11 <psykoz> they are for me
Jan 14 11:45:14 <rwhitby> FreeTim: yeah, they are missing from Palm's XML feeds.
Jan 14 11:45:16 <psykoz> or were
Jan 14 11:45:25 <rwhitby> you see them if you have installed them
Jan 14 11:45:27 <KEYofR> ok for real probably the greatest app other than a web browser is google maps
Jan 14 11:45:32 <FreeTim> Palm hasn't ... right. what rod said
Jan 14 11:45:34 <rwhitby> Palm are working on fixing it.
Jan 14 11:46:06 <swisstomcat> yeah, second most used app is probably the browser
Jan 14 11:46:23 <swisstomcat> and my fahrplan app to find the train i have to take :)
Jan 14 11:46:48 <FreeTim> KEYofR my vote is Evernote - i use that all the darn time - my bus schedule is on it, and I use it to send pictures
Jan 14 11:48:14 <KEYofR> well. obviously it goes without saying that all of these are 2nd to rotary dialer. I mean, duh. Rotary Dialer!
Jan 14 11:48:17 <KEYofR> hehe
Jan 14 11:48:37 <swisstomcat> rotary dialer?
Jan 14 11:49:57 <FreeTim> I didn't download that one... here in Massachusetts, we have too many real rotaries, for my taste
Jan 14 11:50:31 <FreeTim> it's like a driving free-for-all bumper cars, except with real cars
Jan 14 11:50:52 <FreeTim> swiss: It's an old-fashioined phone dialer emulator - the rotary phone type
Jan 14 11:51:09 <swisstomcat> oh, cool
Jan 14 11:51:23 <swisstomcat> i have one of those at home .. it's over 30 years old
Jan 14 11:51:37 <swisstomcat> including sound when dialing?
Jan 14 11:52:38 <KEYofR> It's palm coming full circle... uh as it were, ancieant telephones used this round finger ring, then everything "advanced" away from that with buttons and screens, then ipod brought the idea back, but not for phones, and now palm has "discovered" this awesome intuitive new interface for dialing phone numbers
Jan 14 11:52:41 <KEYofR> hehehe
Jan 14 11:53:32 <psykoz> $1 for rotary dialer?  no thanks ;)
Jan 14 11:53:35 <swisstomcat> almost steampunk
Jan 14 11:54:10 <swisstomcat> guess i have to make my own ... take pics and sounds of my old one
Jan 14 11:54:14 <swisstomcat> open source it
Jan 14 11:54:34 <psykoz> I have a nice oldschool rotary phone stored away, one day I'll show it to my kid ;)
Jan 14 11:55:19 <de> hi, i have a problem setting up WebOS Internals PDK.
Jan 14 11:55:25 <swisstomcat> i remember that hacking project where someone added a gsm-module into one of those (and a battery)
Jan 14 11:56:10 <de> "make stage"  fails.
Jan 14 11:57:20 <de> it complains about /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig not being a driectory
Jan 14 11:57:29 <de> ideas anybody?
Jan 14 11:57:55 <KEYofR> psy: remember to point out things like, origianally, people could not own their phones. the phone company owned them. And such marvels as picking up your phone and dialing only 4 digits and getting your buddy across town. And having to actually go over to the special wall where the phone was bolted to the wal.
Jan 14 11:59:06 <psykoz> Yeah, good old days of having to rent your phone ;)
Jan 14 11:59:13 <psykoz> although that was even before my time
Jan 14 11:59:20 <de> i am using latest git and followed the howto precisely. Host is ubunut 9.10 server.
Jan 14 11:59:27 <KEYofR> which was a good thing because if it was not bolted to something and it fell off the wall it was heavy enough to dent your head and kill you :)
Jan 14 12:00:04 <psykoz> well, products were made for longevity back then ;)
Jan 14 12:00:35 <FreeTim> my Dad ripped it off the wall in anger once... the phone survived, the wall took a week to repair & paint
Jan 14 12:01:01 <psykoz> I had a basketball coach who was a competitor in mr universe (or one of those strong men competitions)
Jan 14 12:01:11 <KEYofR> I'm 39 but I lived in Ticonderoga, NY in '79 - '84, small town, and we had 4 digit numbers for the first few years and switched to the incredibly annoying 7 digits while I was there.
Jan 14 12:01:15 <psykoz> And normal gym kids would use the gym phone to prank 911 and cause disruption at school
Jan 14 12:01:50 <KEYofR> free hahaha exactly
Jan 14 12:02:00 <swisstomcat> 4 digit numbers ... wow
Jan 14 12:02:00 <psykoz> Well the gym phone was in a box, and the box was anchored to 12" of brick with some bolts.  He got angry and ripped the box/phone off the wall which actually bent the washers on the backside and threaded the bolts out the wall
Jan 14 12:02:14 <psykoz> was kinda funny
Jan 14 12:02:17 <swisstomcat> how far we have come with telephone technology
Jan 14 12:02:26 <psykoz> definitely something I wouldn't be strong enough to do ;)
Jan 14 12:02:44 <cryptk|werk> de: rwhitby would probably be the one to ask about that
Jan 14 12:02:46 <KEYofR> there are tons of drama suspense movies where people beat up and/or kill other people by beating them with a phone. It was handier than a lamp.
Jan 14 12:02:53 <cryptk|werk> ~seen rwhitby
Jan 14 12:02:55 * psykoz grins
Jan 14 12:02:55 <infobot> rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals (2d 3h 41m 57s) #nslu2-linux (2d 3h 41m 57s). Has said a total of 574 messages. Is idling for 17m 21s, last said: 'Palm are working on fixing it.'.
Jan 14 12:03:41 <rwhitby> de: I'll take a look at it
Jan 14 12:03:46 <dtzWill> de: until it gets resolved (Which it might, soon) you can typically just move the offending packages out of 'packages' to 'nonworking'
Jan 14 12:03:53 <dtzWill> de: whoops rwhitby is here, nvm :)
Jan 14 12:04:04 <de> rwhitby: great.
Jan 14 12:04:24 <de> dtzWill: I'm trying to build stage.
Jan 14 12:05:13 <de> rwhitby: fails while installing openssl.
Jan 14 12:05:31 <dtzWill> de: understood, it seems to be broken from time to time, presumably as people straighten things out. i was just suggesting that when a package fails (the one that's being built before the pkgconfig, or whatever, error) you can move it (and those that depend on it, which right now seems to be the evas stuff) from /packages to /nonworking
Jan 14 12:05:47 <dtzWill> de: but having it fixed works too haha :)
Jan 14 12:06:08 <de> dtzWill: :)
Jan 14 12:07:14 <KEYofR> I found an old piece of promotional swag while cleaning out my uncles shop one time, a little steel ruler with a car dealers name on it. "blah blah blah Albany, NY... Phone Number 16"
Jan 14 12:07:26 <KEYofR> 16!
Jan 14 12:07:38 <rwhitby> de: what software are you going to be porting?
Jan 14 12:07:43 <KEYofR> wish I still had that
Jan 14 12:08:15 <de> I wanted to start building scummvm. Frodo is what I have in mind next.
Jan 14 12:09:09 <KEYofR> instead I have an AOL v 1.1 install floppy still sealed in it's plastic. don't ask me why.
Jan 14 12:11:09 <de> BTW, is there a chance to extend Mojo Javascript API with my own (C-based) functions?
Jan 14 12:13:01 <KEYofR> And Quicken 1.0 for Apple ][e... Lets see, the appleII cpu ran at 1mhz, so, I guess a Pre could emulate 500 appleII's at once.
Jan 14 12:13:17 <psykoz> if it only worked that way ;)
Jan 14 12:13:21 <KEYofR> heh
Jan 14 12:13:48 <KEYofR> what the cpu can really go to 600 so theres your overhead right there
Jan 14 12:13:55 <swisstomcat> what other old tech could we emulate on the pre? besides a rotary phone
Jan 14 12:14:11 <KEYofR> skipping-rock
Jan 14 12:15:40 <KEYofR> you know, flat rounded rock you throw in such a way that it skips across the top of a lake for a while before "plupe! gurgleblubblub..."
Jan 14 12:15:55 <rwhitby> de: I can reproduce the problem
Jan 14 12:16:16 <swisstomcat> keyofr: don't throw the pre
Jan 14 12:16:23 <ShadeS> what's with all the updates latelyu
Jan 14 12:17:12 <rwhitby> de: fix has been pushed
Jan 14 12:18:00 <KEYofR> ooh Simon? Simple Simon, Simon Sez.. something like that. An old computerized hand held game that was basically just a grid of 6x6 red leds behid film buttons.
Jan 14 12:18:14 <de> rwhitby: great. I will give it a try. Do you have any ideas about my API question posted above?
Jan 14 12:18:38 <KEYofR> case was red plastic in a vaguely phone or walkie-talkie shape
Jan 14 12:18:42 <swisstomcat> never heard of simon sez ...
Jan 14 12:18:48 <rwhitby> de: nope
Jan 14 12:20:56 <FreeTim> de: although, you can have entirely c-based apps.  I think that Classic is written that way
Jan 14 12:21:08 <de>  rwhitby: Fixed for me too.
Jan 14 12:21:16 <KEYofR> MERLIN!
Jan 14 12:21:17 <de> FreeTim:
Jan 14 12:21:18 <KEYofR> http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/Video_Games/Parker-Brothers_Merlin.jpg
Jan 14 12:21:29 <KEYofR> oh hell yeah
Jan 14 12:21:48 <de> FreeTim: Sure. But I would like a c-based application with WebOS-Frontend.
Jan 14 12:21:49 <KEYofR> thats what I was trying to remember. I had one of these.
Jan 14 12:23:11 <de> rwhitby: Do you know if anyone is already working on a frodo port? I would not like to duplicate efforts.
Jan 14 12:23:26 <rwhitby> de: not that I know of
Jan 14 12:23:27 <Towzzer> frodo baggins
Jan 14 12:23:53 <FreeTim> de: right. Classic has the webos launcher icon, and barebones - the app itself is in C.  If you're looking to extend Mojo's API with c-based functions, I don't think that's been done.
Jan 14 12:24:17 <de> Towzzer: http://frodo.cebix.net/
Jan 14 12:25:14 <Towzzer> how can you play games
Jan 14 12:25:19 <Towzzer> with that horrible keyboard
Jan 14 12:26:02 <de> FreeTim: What a pity. Maybe when the PDK gets beta we will know more...
Jan 14 12:26:11 <KEYofR> towzer, the games were on the order of tic-tac-toe
Jan 14 12:26:19 <Towzzer> oh
Jan 14 12:26:21 <KEYofR> in fact, that was one of the 6 games
Jan 14 12:26:31 <Towzzer> someone shoud port space quest 4
Jan 14 12:26:33 <de> Towzzer: Who talked about games? I want to write serious basic applications.
Jan 14 12:26:43 <Towzzer> since it was all mouse you can use the touch to drag the character around
Jan 14 12:27:11 <Towzzer> hm, a mouse emulator
Jan 14 12:27:14 <Towzzer> that uses the touch screen
Jan 14 12:27:22 <KEYofR> de: it morphed from me saying that since an appleII ran at 1mhz, the pre can emulate 500 appleII's at once ;)
Jan 14 12:27:44 <swisstomcat> use your pre as a bluetooth mouse
Jan 14 12:28:46 <de> KEYofR: Sothat would be  probably a 1000 apple I's. Amazing.
Jan 14 12:28:56 <psykoz> the space quests games rock
Jan 14 12:29:17 <de> Sierra sucks.
Jan 14 12:29:23 <Towzzer> ha
Jan 14 12:29:25 <Towzzer> what
Jan 14 12:29:27 <Towzzer> how dare you
Jan 14 12:29:32 <Towzzer> sir, you forget yourself
Jan 14 12:29:52 <de> Lucasfil rulez
Jan 14 12:31:14 <hape> dBsooner: Are you There? I have still problems to submit the patch updates
Jan 14 12:31:59 <swisstomcat> ~seen dBsooner
Jan 14 12:32:01 <infobot> dbsooner is currently on #webos-internals (3d 9h 20m 33s) #webos-watercooler (3d 9h 20m 33s). Has said a total of 521 messages. Is idling for 3h 14m 32s, last said: 'got my work done for the nite and stuff tweeted.. time for snooze'.
Jan 14 12:32:20 <dtzWill> nub question: does ipkg-opt not allow installation of local packages?
Jan 14 12:33:38 <Towzzer> i have an apple IIe in my garage
Jan 14 12:33:39 <Towzzer> that works
Jan 14 12:35:12 <hape> swisstomcat: Thanks for the info. You have nice bits around here ;)
Jan 14 12:35:25 <hape> s/bits/bots
Jan 14 12:35:55 <swisstomcat> bots are bits and bytes
Jan 14 12:36:13 <Towzzer> sometimes I make wild claims, like each byte is 7 bits
Jan 14 12:36:53 <cryptk|werk> hape, you forgot the trailing shash
Jan 14 12:37:06 <cryptk|werk> s/slash/shash, it is required/
Jan 14 12:37:20 <cryptk|werk> or infobot can hate me too...
Jan 14 12:37:27 <cryptk|werk> s/hate/love/
Jan 14 12:37:28 <infobot> cryptk|werk meant: or infobot can love me too...
Jan 14 12:37:40 <cryptk|werk> there we go..., forgot to escape my comma, lol
Jan 14 12:37:54 <cryptk|werk> ~botsnack
Jan 14 12:37:54 <infobot> cryptk|werk: thanks
Jan 14 12:38:10 <cryptk|werk> infobot: what is sed
Jan 14 12:38:11 <infobot> GNU Stream Editor. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/
Jan 14 12:38:32 <cryptk|werk> there is how to use the s/replace/text/ thing
Jan 14 12:38:38 * Toaster23 thinks someone should finish the scummvm port.
Jan 14 12:38:46 <cryptk|werk> uses the same syntax for the most part
Jan 14 12:38:48 <Towzzer> someone was doing that?
Jan 14 12:39:01 <cryptk|werk> Toaster23: they are working on it as far as I know.... did they stop?
Jan 14 12:39:06 <swisstomcat> toaster23: did you ask about german sources yesterday?
Jan 14 12:39:24 <Toaster23> german no
Jan 14 12:39:35 <Toaster23> cryptk: They stopped I atempted it
Jan 14 12:39:41 <swisstomcat> another toaster then
Jan 14 12:39:44 <Toaster23> but I am not skilled enough yet.
Jan 14 12:40:27 <cryptk|werk> infobot: no, sed is the GNU Stream Editor. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/ MANPAGE:http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?sed
Jan 14 12:40:29 <infobot> okay, cryptk|werk
Jan 14 12:40:35 <cryptk|werk> infobot: what is sed
Jan 14 12:40:36 <infobot> from memory, sed is the GNU Stream Editor. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/ MANPAGE:http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?sed
Jan 14 12:40:42 <cryptk|werk> there we go
Jan 14 12:41:23 <swisstomcat> cool
Jan 14 12:41:34 <swisstomcat> i remember programming an irc bot back in time at IBM
Jan 14 12:42:00 <swisstomcat> in REXX ... those were the days
Jan 14 12:42:05 <cryptk|werk> infobot: no, sed is the GNU Stream Editor. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/ MANPAGE:http://www.gnu.org/software/sed/manual/
Jan 14 12:42:06 <infobot> okay, cryptk|werk
Jan 14 12:42:11 <cryptk|werk> better to use the official manpage
Jan 14 12:42:21 <cryptk|werk> ~sed
Jan 14 12:42:23 <infobot> [sed] the GNU Stream Editor. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/ MANPAGE:http://www.gnu.org/software/sed/manual/
Jan 14 12:42:50 <de> rwhitby: building embryo fails. "configure: error: cannot find install-sh, install.sh, or shtool in "." "./.." "."
Jan 14 12:43:30 <Alyazir> hi there
Jan 14 12:43:38 <Toaster23> hi
Jan 14 12:43:51 <Towzzer> hi
Jan 14 12:44:01 <Alyazir> may I ask for support considering webos quick install here?
Jan 14 12:44:08 <Towzzer> what's up
Jan 14 12:44:11 <swisstomcat> hey
Jan 14 12:44:20 <Towzzer> it has to be in developer mode for it to connect at all
Jan 14 12:44:22 <Alyazir> I updated to 1.3.5.2 and can't connect to my pre
Jan 14 12:44:25 <Towzzer> problem solved
Jan 14 12:44:26 <Alyazir> yes
Jan 14 12:44:34 <Towzzer> damn i thought i had him
Jan 14 12:44:39 <Alyazir> hehe
Jan 14 12:44:47 <Towzzer> you sure it's in developermode
Jan 14 12:44:49 <Alyazir> no, i read some faq and instructions
Jan 14 12:44:51 <Alyazir> yes
Jan 14 12:45:14 <Towzzer> how come i only have 1.3.5.1
Jan 14 12:45:14 <Alyazir> i deinstalled all patches before updating - except one
Jan 14 12:45:18 <swisstomcat> can you connect with novacom?
Jan 14 12:45:19 <swisstomcat> directly
Jan 14 12:45:33 <Alyazir> novacom seems to be the problem
Jan 14 12:45:47 <Alyazir> i looked it up with servces.msc and it was not running
Jan 14 12:45:49 <swisstomcat> novacom -t open tty://
Jan 14 12:46:01 <Alyazir> i couldn't start it through there either
Jan 14 12:46:21 <swisstomcat> doesn't webosquickinstall use novacom?
Jan 14 12:46:25 <Alyazir> so i uninstalled it and can't reinstall it
Jan 14 12:46:28 <Alyazir> it does
Jan 14 12:46:30 <de> ls
Jan 14 12:47:16 <Alyazir> the Attempt Novacom (re)installation button in webos quick install doesn't work either
Jan 14 12:47:55 <swisstomcat> novacom seems to be the main problem then
Jan 14 12:48:04 <Alyazir> i think so
Jan 14 12:48:27 <de> rwhitby:  any ideas?
Jan 14 12:48:38 <Alyazir> I guess I should try a manual install
Jan 14 12:49:24 <de> rwhitby: sorry my connection is not that stable
Jan 14 12:51:50 <Alyazir> Towzzer: maybe I have 1.3.5.2 because I'm in Germany
Jan 14 12:52:12 <Alyazir> There was no 1.3.5.x until yesterday here
Jan 14 12:52:55 <de> Alyazir: I have 1.3.5.2 too. Works fine.
Jan 14 12:53:40 <swisstomcat> do you have the SDK installed, alyazir?
Jan 14 12:53:59 <Alyazir> yes
Jan 14 12:54:00 <cryptk|werk> Alyazir: is the webosdoctor.jar file in the same folder as WosQI?
Jan 14 12:54:11 <dtzWill> rwhitby: is there a way for me to install the ipkg i made without pushing it? i just wanna give it a bit of quality control :)
Jan 14 12:54:11 <Alyazir> what's WosQI?
Jan 14 12:54:16 <cryptk|werk> and did you restart after uninstalling novacom?
Jan 14 12:54:21 <Alyazir> yes
Jan 14 12:54:21 <cryptk|werk> WebOS QuickInstall
Jan 14 12:54:26 <Alyazir> yes, it is
Jan 14 12:54:33 <rwhitby> dtzWill: yes, with wosqi
Jan 14 12:54:54 <cryptk|werk> ok, and you rebooted?
Jan 14 12:55:00 <swisstomcat> what version of the sdk do you have?
Jan 14 12:55:01 <dtzWill> rwhitby: kk, thank you
Jan 14 12:55:21 <cryptk|werk> Alyazir: you said you did reboot right?
Jan 14 12:55:37 <Alyazir> swisstomcat: no idea, didn't really use it - I'm rebooting right now, I'll look afterwards
Jan 14 12:55:39 <Alyazir> cryptk|werk: yes
Jan 14 12:55:46 <cryptk|werk> hrm...
Jan 14 12:56:02 <cryptk|werk> is the webosdoctor.jar you have the 1.3.5.2 one?
Jan 14 12:56:28 <Sonic-NKT> hi, i allready posted my problem in the webosinternals thread on pre centtral but no one replied... so here i ask again. after doctoring from sprint 1.3.5 to o2 1.3.1  -->  1.3.5.2 OTA, all my patches from the sprint install still show up in preware but it is not possible to remove them. They are not working but its really annoying that i cant install them again.
Jan 14 12:56:51 <Alyazir> I don't think so
Jan 14 12:57:05 <rwhitby> Sonic-NKT: did you full erase before doctoring?
Jan 14 12:57:10 <swisstomcat> is the 1.3.5.2 doctor already available anyway?
Jan 14 12:57:14 <Alyazir> Yes
Jan 14 12:57:16 <cryptk|werk> Sonic-NKT: that is because apps and patches (or at least their IPK's) are stored on the USB partition now
Jan 14 12:57:24 <Alyazir> Just saw a link somewhere
Jan 14 12:57:33 <Sonic-NKT> i thought that but how can i fix this ?
Jan 14 12:57:43 <cryptk|werk> did you do a full erase?
Jan 14 12:57:56 <cryptk|werk> doctor doesn't wipe the USB anymore
Jan 14 12:57:57 <Sonic-NKT> no just doctor... keep the media partition intact
Jan 14 12:58:19 <cryptk|werk> first mistake, always remove patches before OTA updates
Jan 14 12:58:30 <cryptk|werk> that applies to doctoring now too since it is on the USB partition
Jan 14 12:58:43 <cryptk|werk> a full erase will fix your problem... or a partial erase even
Jan 14 12:58:48 <Sonic-NKT> yes now im smarter but it didnt thought about that back then ;)
Jan 14 12:58:49 <cryptk|werk> either one shuld fix ya up
Jan 14 12:59:05 <Sonic-NKT> as before 1.3.5 doctoring was enough
Jan 14 12:59:11 <cryptk|werk> Sonic-NKT: a partial erase will remove them from the USB partition but leave your music/pics/whatever
Jan 14 12:59:20 <cryptk|werk> Sonic-NKT: you mean 1.3.1
Jan 14 12:59:24 <Sonic-NKT> how can i do that?
Jan 14 12:59:35 <Sonic-NKT> partial erase
Jan 14 12:59:45 <cryptk|werk> in the launcher go to Device Info > Reset Options > Partial/Full Erase
Jan 14 12:59:48 <cryptk|werk> pick either one
Jan 14 12:59:58 <Alyazir> da**...
Jan 14 13:00:00 <Sonic-NKT> ah thanks will try that :)
Jan 14 13:00:02 <cryptk|werk> full erase plus doctor will give you a clean empty fresh pre
Jan 14 13:00:06 <Alyazir> just realized I forgot one patch
Jan 14 13:00:18 <Sonic-NKT> will try partial first... see if thats enough :)
Jan 14 13:00:23 <cryptk|werk> Sonic-NKT: have you tried EPR yet though?
Jan 14 13:00:38 <Sonic-NKT> yes.. gives me the same error as removing the patch manual
Jan 14 13:00:40 <Alyazir> i still had the messaging plugin thingy for icq and so on - can this cause a problem?
Jan 14 13:00:43 <cryptk|werk> ahh, ok
Jan 14 13:01:12 <cryptk|werk> no, your problem is taht you can't get novacom to install right?
Jan 14 13:01:18 <cryptk|werk> Alyazir: that last one was to you
Jan 14 13:02:15 <Alyazir> cryptk|werk: It wasn't running and won't reinstall - so I just installed it manually and still rebooting
Jan 14 13:02:21 <Alyazir> cryptk|werk: so, yes
Jan 14 13:03:22 <cryptk|werk> Alyazir: if you just installed novacom then hopefully your problem will be fixed
Jan 14 13:04:38 <Alyazir> if not - what would be a next step?
Jan 14 13:04:43 <Alyazir> full erase?
Jan 14 13:05:25 <cryptk|werk> no
Jan 14 13:05:44 <cryptk|werk> well, assuming that novacom installs properly, maybe
Jan 14 13:06:28 <cryptk|werk> all depends on if novacom works after your reboot
Jan 14 13:06:30 <Alyazir> I guess I'll first try the reinstallation from webosdoctor for 1.3.5.2
Jan 14 13:06:49 <cryptk|werk> almost time for me to go home
Jan 14 13:06:58 <cryptk|werk> at which point I won't be able to help you anymore...
Jan 14 13:07:04 <cryptk|werk> I'm at work atm
Jan 14 13:07:10 <Alyazir> ok
Jan 14 13:07:27 <Alyazir> don't have an irc client for your pre? ;)
Jan 14 13:09:11 <cryptk|werk> I do
Jan 14 13:09:18 <cryptk|werk> but when I go home I do my other job
Jan 14 13:09:25 <cryptk|werk> and that one is on my computer at home...
Jan 14 13:09:31 <cryptk|werk> if I jump on IRC I get nothing done
Jan 14 13:09:34 <Alyazir> hehe, i was just kidding anyway
Jan 14 13:09:49 <cryptk|werk> since I get paid per job I try to focus on getting it done as fast as possible
Jan 14 13:09:57 <cryptk|werk> more jobs = more money
Jan 14 13:10:01 <dtzWill> rwhitby: vba is in unreleased. sorry i had some issues with automake o_O. if you'd take a look when you get a chance that would be great
Jan 14 13:10:02 <cryptk|werk> more money = more beer
Jan 14 13:10:05 <cryptk|werk> I like beer
Jan 14 13:10:10 <Alyazir> it's working
Jan 14 13:10:13 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: good call, brb
Jan 14 13:10:21 <cryptk|werk> dtzWill: bring me one
Jan 14 13:10:34 <cryptk|werk> I really want to teach infobot about beer
Jan 14 13:10:38 <cryptk|werk> ~beer
Jan 14 13:10:39 * infobot has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
Jan 14 13:10:46 <cryptk|werk> lol
Jan 14 13:10:52 <dtzWill> rwhitby: wosqi is being lame, so i didn't have a chance to test the ipk. but i trust you (quake? :D)
Jan 14 13:11:01 <dtzWill> (well and you made this system, right? haha)
Jan 14 13:11:02 <cryptk|werk> looks like infobot had to go get a beer also
Jan 14 13:11:08 * dtzWill gives cryptk|werk a beer
Jan 14 13:11:37 <cryptk|werk> dtzWill: rwhitby didn't make QuickInstall...
Jan 14 13:11:44 <cryptk|werk> infobot: are you there?
Jan 14 13:11:46 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: no no i mean the preware build system
Jan 14 13:11:50 <cryptk|werk> ahh
Jan 14 13:11:53 <cryptk|werk> that he did
Jan 14 13:11:56 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: i'm not sure i set it up right, and .. yeah :)
Jan 14 13:12:02 <cryptk|werk> haha
Jan 14 13:12:04 <cryptk|werk> ~beer
Jan 14 13:12:05 * infobot has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
Jan 14 13:12:09 <Alyazir> ok, everything seems to work fine again
Jan 14 13:12:12 <cryptk|werk> that is excellent
Jan 14 13:12:14 * dtzWill is releasing just so he can have an icon for testing :P
Jan 14 13:12:16 <cryptk|werk> good stuff Alyazir
Jan 14 13:12:18 <Alyazir> thanks for your help
Jan 14 13:12:22 <cryptk|werk> np ;)
Jan 14 13:12:39 <rwhitby> dtzWill: I won't have any time left tonight to look at it
Jan 14 13:12:53 <rwhitby> dtzWill: commit it in unreleased
Jan 14 13:13:44 <Cerealklr> Hullo, quick, probably stupid question.
Jan 14 13:14:03 <dtzWill> rwhitby: pushed, sorry.
Jan 14 13:14:34 <dtzWill> rwhitby: kk, thanks anyway. have a good one :)
Jan 14 13:14:45 <rwhitby> ok
Jan 14 13:14:49 <Cerealklr> I was browsing webos-internals and noticed a vba page that claimed it had already been ported. I found the git repo and wanted to install it directly through my phone, but I can't for the life of me find a way to install git on it. >.<
Jan 14 13:15:42 <Cerealklr> I can't believe there isn't optware for that yet though, it seems like an obvious thing to port. Something i'm missing?
Jan 14 13:15:48 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: wow that was fast, put that page up a few hours ago
Jan 14 13:15:55 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: pretty sure it is.
Jan 14 13:16:26 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: ..just checked and it is. ipkg-opt install git
Jan 14 13:17:02 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: also i'm the dev for vba :). if you want the binary, i can hook you up--but there's no ipkg/launcher built yet
Jan 14 13:17:04 <Cerealklr> okay, i can do that. ^.^ Do you have any idea why preware shows so few of the available optware packages? xD
Jan 14 13:17:13 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: the beta binary anyway.
Jan 14 13:17:29 <Cerealklr> hmm, that would be nice. Trying to compile source on my phone sounded fun but a bit difficult.
Jan 14 13:17:29 <Cerealklr> xD
Jan 14 13:17:47 <Sonic-NKT> wouldnt mind to play arround with the latest beta too :D
Jan 14 13:18:05 <Sonic-NKT> GB/GBC was very nice on the last build i tried
Jan 14 13:18:30 <dtzWill> Cerealklr, Sonic-NKT: sounds good. I just asked that you give me all the feedback you can--...so I can make it better for you/everyone else :D.
Jan 14 13:18:35 <dtzWill> one sec, i'll push latest binary..
Jan 14 13:18:51 <Cerealklr> I can't wait to try then. I've loaded a few roms in already to use with SDLboy, but for some reason killing sound destroyed the roms, and i can never find a time to play it with the Pre's speaker phone blasting out 8 bit tunes. xD
Jan 14 13:19:03 <Cerealklr> Can do, of course.
Jan 14 13:19:16 <Sonic-NKT> no problem...
Jan 14 13:19:48 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: this one respects your volume control (at least while playing)
Jan 14 13:20:24 <Cerealklr> Yay! =] Nano works well on the Pre, but its still a little time consuming to make a script for every sound level. xD
Jan 14 13:20:35 <dtzWill> check the controls here http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:VBA#Controls
Jan 14 13:20:58 <dtzWill> in particular mute, etc--turning off sound with the button (not the volume on the pre) can make games (gba really) run faster, just FYI
Jan 14 13:21:15 <cryptk|werk> Cerealklr: we use scratchbox2 to cross compile binaries for the Pre
Jan 14 13:21:29 <cryptk|werk> it is much faster/easier to cross compile them on your desktop, lol
Jan 14 13:21:43 <Cerealklr> Mhmm, i've been following the progress of the webos PDK and scratchbox
Jan 14 13:22:13 <Cerealklr> the issue is i dont have a sync cable with me, and my ubuntu install is slightly buggy atm because i'm also working on developing the new Compiz C++ version
Jan 14 13:22:33 <Cerealklr> so altogether i'd rather fiddle with my pre. xD
Jan 14 13:22:46 <dtzWill> Cerealklr, Sonic-NKT http://wdtz.org/files/vba give it a whirl. an pm me/email me at webos@wdtz.org with any thoughts/problems/suggestions please
Jan 14 13:23:02 <Sonic-NKT> thank you very much!
Jan 14 13:23:06 <Cerealklr> Okay, can do. ^.^ hank you!
Jan 14 13:23:08 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: welcome :). enjoy
Jan 14 13:23:10 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: enjoy
Jan 14 13:23:11 <Cerealklr> Thank* =P
Jan 14 13:24:41 <Sonic-NKT> btw, why not a WebOS (webbased) Gui... or is this more complicated?
Jan 14 13:25:16 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: yeah, passing parameters mojo-->native app is a pain via upstart
Jan 14 13:25:35 <Sonic-NKT> ah ok :)
Jan 14 13:25:42 <Cerealklr> *cackles evilly* mmkay, now to figure out how to copy the roms out of my debian image
Jan 14 13:25:42 <Cerealklr> xD
Jan 14 13:26:13 <rwhitby> dtzWill: vba in testing feed
Jan 14 13:26:23 <cryptk|werk> time to go home, later everyone
Jan 14 13:26:26 <dtzWill> rwhitby: oh wow ty
Jan 14 13:26:28 <cryptk|werk> infobot: goodbye
Jan 14 13:26:29 <infobot> L8rz!
Jan 14 13:26:31 <cryptk|werk> ~beer
Jan 14 13:26:34 * infobot has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
Jan 14 13:26:34 <dtzWill> Cerealklr, Sonic-NKT testing feed :)
Jan 14 13:26:34 <Cerealklr> bai! =]
Jan 14 13:26:42 <dtzWill> cryptk|werk: hahaha
Jan 14 13:26:45 <Cerealklr> wooo. xD I already set that up in search of it
Jan 14 13:26:49 <Cerealklr> before I dropped by the IRC
Jan 14 13:26:50 <Cerealklr> xD
Jan 14 13:26:50 <rwhitby> dtzWill: dunno if it works - need to reboot my dev pre
Jan 14 13:27:01 <Sonic-NKT> :D
Jan 14 13:27:04 <Cerealklr> Dont have the terminal app installed? xD
Jan 14 13:27:11 <Cerealklr> and i cna test that for you if you like
Jan 14 13:27:14 <Cerealklr> can*
Jan 14 13:27:30 <dtzWill> rwhitby: haha okay :D. i'll give it a look.... btw who subscribes to the testing feed? i noticed i have it but don't know that i did that on purpose. i assume default is not on?
Jan 14 13:27:33 <Sonic-NKT> is onscreen control planned like in quake? for landscape gaming?
Jan 14 13:27:46 <rwhitby> dtzWill: it is manually installed
Jan 14 13:27:53 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: absolutely, but for rendering reasons it got cut for now. :/
Jan 14 13:27:53 <Cerealklr> it isn't. in fact, you have to fiddle in terminal and cat it into the ipkg urls
Jan 14 13:28:01 <dtzWill> rwhitby: ah okay haha. must've done thta then :D
Jan 14 13:28:07 <Cerealklr> at least, had to when i added it this morning. xD
Jan 14 13:28:24 <dtzWill> well the preware page looks good :D
Jan 14 13:28:28 <Cerealklr> *<3s speed of opensrc dev*
Jan 14 13:28:31 <Sonic-NKT> how can i add the testing feed?
Jan 14 13:28:32 <Cerealklr> i is gorgeous
Jan 14 13:28:37 <Cerealklr> its in the wiki
Jan 14 13:28:38 <Alyazir> this preware update takes its time....
Jan 14 13:28:39 <Cerealklr> one sec
Jan 14 13:28:39 <rwhitby> ~testing-feed
Jan 14 13:28:40 <infobot> somebody said testing-feed was a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds
Jan 14 13:28:47 <Cerealklr> beat me to it. xD
Jan 14 13:28:51 <dtzWill> hahaha i love infobot
Jan 14 13:28:54 <dtzWill> infobot: i love you
Jan 14 13:28:55 <infobot> You love you?
Jan 14 13:29:01 <Sonic-NKT> thanks
Jan 14 13:29:03 <dtzWill> infobot: i love *you*
Jan 14 13:29:04 <infobot> You love *you*?
Jan 14 13:29:08 <dtzWill> ~botsnack
Jan 14 13:29:08 <Cerealklr> hahahaa infobot wins
Jan 14 13:29:08 <infobot> aw, gee, dtzWill
Jan 14 13:29:12 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 14 13:29:17 <dtzWill> <--pwned
Jan 14 13:29:17 <dtzWill> :D
Jan 14 13:29:19 <dtzWill> anyway
Jan 14 13:29:19 <Sonic-NKT> btw, pause-mode is working really good in vba  :)
Jan 14 13:29:22 <dtzWill> looks like it works great
Jan 14 13:29:23 <dtzWill> :D:D
Jan 14 13:29:27 <dtzWill> (via preware i mean)
Jan 14 13:29:34 <dtzWill> rwhitby: looks like it installs just fine via preware, tyvm
Jan 14 13:29:54 <Alyazir> *waiting*
Jan 14 13:30:06 <dtzWill> Alyazir: kill it and try again? sometimes it gets stuck
Jan 14 13:30:15 <Sonic-NKT> oh sorry was wrong it just crashed while minimized :D
Jan 14 13:30:29 <Alyazir> killing it won't KILL it?
Jan 14 13:30:40 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: say what? :(.
Jan 14 13:30:58 <Alyazir> i'm not that much of a fan of killing updates in progress ;)
Jan 14 13:30:58 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: if you'd pm me things like that it'll make sure when i don't miss them when going through logs
Jan 14 13:31:12 <dtzWill> Alyazir: i do it all the time. then again maybe that's why it takes so long, spite
Jan 14 13:31:15 <dtzWill> :)
Jan 14 13:31:21 <Alyazir> hehe
Jan 14 13:31:39 <Sonic-NKT> ok will do that from now on! cant say why, i started it from novaterm but that wont show any more information, last info was SPEED: xxx
Jan 14 13:31:40 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: although to be honest i haven't tested pausing much, just playing. i'll see if i can reproduce that :(, i thought that would work.... hehe
Jan 14 13:32:51 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: reproduced, i'll investigate. ty
Jan 14 13:33:19 <Alyazir> i hate rebooting the pre
Jan 14 13:33:48 <Alyazir> hm, this doesn't seem to be normal
Jan 14 13:34:23 <Alyazir> When I installed 1.3.5.2 it told me "system is being updated" while rebooting (don't know the exact English phrase)
Jan 14 13:34:36 <Alyazir> now it tells me that every time
Jan 14 13:35:37 <Alyazir> Or is it just because I can't update some of my applications, because they are not "avaiable in my country"?
Jan 14 13:35:37 <Cerealklr> okay, finally got them copied over. time to go old school with some Legond of Zelda. xD
Jan 14 13:37:54 * Alyazir bites into the table
Jan 14 13:38:56 <Alyazir> why can't everything just work once in a while
Jan 14 13:39:33 <Sonic-NKT> is it possible to easily access the gps function from a native app yet? just stumbled over a navit thread on precentral. sounds like a great idea
Jan 14 13:41:07 <SunFire1985> the 1.3.5.2 update needs to be fixed or preware like WQI needs to be fix as soon as posible cuz it is anoying
Jan 14 13:41:38 <Sonic-NKT> what is annoying?
Jan 14 13:42:05 <Cerealklr> @dtz: Epic props. smoother than butter and twice as pretty.
Jan 14 13:42:20 <Cerealklr> wish i had a gba rom to test it out with.
Jan 14 13:42:22 <SunFire1985> u cant install anything with preware or WQI since1.3.5.2
Jan 14 13:42:54 <Sonic-NKT> gba is still very slow with sound... but looks very nice :) GB/GBC is indeed very smooth...
Jan 14 13:42:58 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: doesn't work as well on gba roms :(. *yet* ;). but glad you like it :D. remember to be critical if you can and lemme know about the little things that bug you... no promise but yet
Jan 14 13:43:08 <Sonic-NKT> im on 1.3.5.2 and can install everything
Jan 14 13:43:25 <destinal-wirc> rwhitby: morning
Jan 14 13:43:33 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: hi
Jan 14 13:43:50 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: I got distracted by adding new stuff to meta-doctor :-)
Jan 14 13:43:56 <Cerealklr> well, i'm contemplating the button setup right now
Jan 14 13:44:02 <Cerealklr> but i cand for the life of me think of a better one.
Jan 14 13:44:05 <Cerealklr> cant*
Jan 14 13:44:18 <destinal-wirc> rwhitby:heh, no worries
Jan 14 13:44:21 <Sonic-NKT> dtzWill: for gba the emulator gpsp (ported to iphone, gp2x and so on) maybe intresting for you. it is heavily optimized
Jan 14 13:44:24 <Cerealklr> short of tetting it up so in landscape you've got a transparent D-pad and AB buttons as they've done in quake.
Jan 14 13:44:32 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: but your request for the meta-doctor is now done :-)
Jan 14 13:44:44 <destinal-wirc> nice
Jan 14 13:45:17 <destinal-wirc> what was the simplest fix for that?
Jan 14 13:45:25 <Cerealklr> hrmm. I tihink that would definitely be an improvement over the hard keys. but otherwise nothing else bears complaint about the layout itself.
Jan 14 13:45:38 <Cerealklr> i'm actively searching for performance flaws
Jan 14 13:45:46 <Cerealklr> and cant find any, but i'm playing a relatively old gbc game.
Jan 14 13:46:04 <Cerealklr> and the only other thing i've noticed, which i find a bit odd
Jan 14 13:46:35 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: check the git commits is easiest
Jan 14 13:46:43 <Cerealklr> is that its printing occasional status messages over the game. I presume thats just debug, but whether it is or not, i can't help but think of all the extra black screenspace not being used where it could be displayed instead. xD
Jan 14 13:46:54 <destinal-wirc> k
Jan 14 13:47:04 <Cerealklr> restarts after sleep just fine in all cases.
Jan 14 13:47:05 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: i did quake haha, and i actually implemented an overlay but for technical reasons it killed performance so i ditched it for now.
Jan 14 13:47:18 <Cerealklr> oh it did? I hadn't even noticed. 0.o
Jan 14 13:47:42 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: yes. thanks for the tip; i absolutely intend on taking a look, here's hoping it integrates with existing work nicely xD
Jan 14 13:47:45 <Cerealklr> I don't want to give it up. =P
Jan 14 13:47:49 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: oh it's not in your build.
Jan 14 13:48:07 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: it's in some git branch haha. it made even gbc games not run fullspeed which is super lame
Jan 14 13:48:14 <Cerealklr> Oh, i thought you meant it had in quake, which is why you didn't do it.
Jan 14 13:48:19 <Alyazir> hm
Jan 14 13:48:22 <Cerealklr> my bad. xD
Jan 14 13:48:50 <Cerealklr> i presume it was a polling rate issue? or is there more processing involved than i realized in tap-checking?
Jan 14 13:48:52 <Alyazir> I don't get the "USB-Device, Just load, etc." popup anymore, when I plug in my phone
Jan 14 13:49:38 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: oh no actually writing the code to HANDLE touchscreen stuff is easy and no performance hit
Jan 14 13:50:04 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: it's rendering the thing on the screen that killed it :/. although i think i'll try to do it in portrait mode non-overlayed, i think the alpha blending+two textures killed me
Jan 14 13:50:09 <Alyazir> someone knows a solution for that?
Jan 14 13:50:51 <Cerealklr> hmm, i see.
Jan 14 13:51:25 <Cerealklr> and that _is_ with all the hardware acceleration we can pull from the pre's video card?
Jan 14 13:52:47 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: yep. although i don't believe it; it's possible i'm doing something not right
Jan 14 13:52:56 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: i refuse to believe it can't draw two textures quickly :(
Jan 14 13:53:56 <Cerealklr> I've got to go pull up the specs on the card, but that seems ridiculous. How high res are they? bwhahaa
Jan 14 13:54:49 <Cerealklr> 0.o
Jan 14 13:54:56 <Cerealklr> why the hell aren't its specs on webos-internals under hardware?
Jan 14 13:55:05 <Cerealklr> *facepalm* googles
Jan 14 13:55:35 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: well one texture is re-loaded *every* frame.
Jan 14 13:55:53 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: although even doing ... whatever it's called--putting them both on the same texture and using regions was slow :(
Jan 14 13:56:13 <Cerealklr> writing them to a surface?
Jan 14 13:56:14 <dtzWill> also zomg zelda xD
Jan 14 13:56:21 <Cerealklr> or am i getting my terminology mixed up? xD
Jan 14 13:56:35 <Cerealklr> also, i know right? Oracle of Seasons ftw. atm. xD
Jan 14 13:56:36 <Towzzer> why are those patches related to the processor
Jan 14 13:56:38 <Towzzer> so dangerous
Jan 14 13:56:41 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: terms mixed up, surfaces are SDL--it was replacing SDL for video that made things playable
Jan 14 13:56:44 <Towzzer> the 250-500 mhz patch
Jan 14 13:56:53 <dtzWill> Cerealklr: oracle of ages :D:D
Jan 14 13:57:05 <Cerealklr> the reason is palm isn't using them
Jan 14 13:57:10 <Cerealklr> and may have a reason for it
Jan 14 13:57:14 <Cerealklr> and they additionally cause crashes
Jan 14 13:57:20 <Cerealklr> occasionally bricking your phone
Jan 14 13:57:25 <Towzzer> but i wonder why
Jan 14 13:57:26 <Cerealklr> but for the most part, they won't do much harm
Jan 14 13:57:46 <Cerealklr> provided you don't mind occasionally waiting for a full reboot, anyways.
Jan 14 13:58:01 <Cerealklr> now, the 600mhz ones, those where DANGEROUS. xD
Jan 14 13:58:22 <Cerealklr> I fully hardware bricked my phone and had to do a silly dance and sacrifice some virgins to revive it. =P
Jan 14 13:58:42 <Towzzer> how many virgins
Jan 14 13:58:51 <Cerealklr> (i probably should've listened to preware when it told me to remove it a month or two earlier)
Jan 14 13:58:54 <Cerealklr> 2... xD
Jan 14 13:59:00 <Sonic-NKT> cant find any problems in vba for GB Roms, except the freezing bug when minimized for over a sec. Even my SAV files from the Dingoo Gnuboy port are working fine. i can continue now playing zelda dx on the go with my pre ;)
Jan 14 13:59:14 <Cerealklr> Damnit, well that bell is for me. Time for finals. xD
Jan 14 13:59:19 <Towzzer> fnals?
Jan 14 13:59:21 <Cerealklr> happpy. xD
Jan 14 13:59:22 <Towzzer> school ends late
Jan 14 13:59:23 <Towzzer> there
Jan 14 13:59:27 <Cerealklr> mhmm, quite.
Jan 14 13:59:30 <Cerealklr> and no break
Jan 14 13:59:31 <Cerealklr> xD
Jan 14 13:59:32 <Towzzer> wow
Jan 14 13:59:34 <Towzzer> are you chinese?
Jan 14 13:59:54 <Towzzer> i've been off since the 22nd of dec
Jan 14 14:00:14 <Cerealklr> iilied. 10 minutes left.
Jan 14 14:00:14 <Cerealklr> xD
Jan 14 14:00:17 <Cerealklr> no, i'm PSEO-B
Jan 14 14:00:21 <Cerealklr> highschool && college.
Jan 14 14:00:21 <Cerealklr> xD
Jan 14 14:00:27 <Towzzer> isi don't know what that is
Jan 14 14:00:27 <Cerealklr> these are highschool finals
Jan 14 14:00:32 <Towzzer> oh
Jan 14 14:00:38 <Towzzer> pseo-b
Jan 14 14:00:48 <Towzzer> so you are a nerd?
Jan 14 14:00:52 <Towzzer> technically speaking
Jan 14 14:00:54 <Cerealklr> heh, in a sense.
Jan 14 14:01:01 <Towzzer> taking comp sci in college?
Jan 14 14:01:12 <Cerealklr> at least, im the only kid in my school with a server rack in his old game closet. xD
Jan 14 14:01:19 <destinal-wirc> cereal:  palm uses 600 mhz on your phone all the time now
Jan 14 14:01:21 <Cerealklr> hell no
Jan 14 14:01:23 <Cerealklr> well, i will be
Jan 14 14:01:30 <Cerealklr> but not through the shitty commmunity one
Jan 14 14:01:36 <Towzzer> where are you going
Jan 14 14:01:36 <Cerealklr> i've been coding since i was 8 or 9
Jan 14 14:01:37 <Towzzer> MIT?
Jan 14 14:01:42 <Towzzer> berkely?
Jan 14 14:01:45 <Towzzer> caltech?
Jan 14 14:01:49 <Cerealklr> the local college would rot my brain with the slowness they'd teach
Jan 14 14:01:55 <Cerealklr> i'm hoping fort the 1st and/or 3rd
Jan 14 14:01:59 <Cerealklr> for the*
Jan 14 14:02:01 <Cerealklr> xD
Jan 14 14:02:06 <Cerealklr> but i dont think i'll make it to either.
Jan 14 14:02:08 <destinal-wirc> 600mhz is what all games run in
Jan 14 14:02:21 <Cerealklr> desitnal: really? i didn't know that.
Jan 14 14:02:30 <Cerealklr> interesting that it hasn't had much in the wally of an ill effect
Jan 14 14:02:33 <Cerealklr> way*
Jan 14 14:02:42 <Towzzer> if you get in M.I.T that will be respectable
Jan 14 14:02:44 <Towzzer> but it's really hard
Jan 14 14:02:48 <Towzzer> best tech school in the world
Jan 14 14:03:11 <destinal-wirc> done right it's fine and we should be able to set and forget overclock
Jan 14 14:03:18 <destinal-wirc> or deunderclock
Jan 14 14:03:23 <Cerealklr> Mhmm.
Jan 14 14:03:30 <Cerealklr> damnit. ,now i really have to go.
Jan 14 14:03:35 <Cerealklr> catch you all later! ^.^
Jan 14 14:03:48 <destinal-wirc> cya
Jan 14 14:06:01 <Towzzer> what a nerd
Jan 14 14:06:08 <Towzzer> now make more patches!
Jan 14 14:13:18 <destinal-wirc> ugh patches
Jan 14 14:14:10 <Rick-home> patchs better than themes....
Jan 14 14:14:17 <Rick-home> you COULD be the theme master.  :-)
Jan 14 14:14:37 <Towzzer> I acutally like the palm pre standard theme
Jan 14 14:14:54 <destinal-wirc> heh I am not patch or theme person lol
Jan 14 14:15:02 <Towzzer> just wirc?
Jan 14 14:15:13 <Towzzer> i need wirc to support ssl connections, and blowfish encryption
Jan 14 14:15:17 <Towzzer> then i can use it
Jan 14 14:15:33 <destinal-wirc> that's puff and oil and egaudet
Jan 14 14:15:46 <Towzzer> what?
Jan 14 14:15:52 <Towzzer> snake oil you say?
Jan 14 14:16:14 <destinal-wirc> I hack on lots of random things but of things you probably use,terminal is most well known
Jan 14 14:16:35 <Towzzer> i know
Jan 14 14:16:37 <Towzzer> we talked before
Jan 14 14:16:39 <Towzzer> about the crashing
Jan 14 14:16:53 <Towzzer> you said something about "rtfm" and my and mom and left
Jan 14 14:16:55 <Towzzer> so i assume it's not fixed
Jan 14 14:17:03 <Towzzer> :D
Jan 14 14:17:11 <destinal-wirc> rtfm? lol
Jan 14 14:17:18 <Towzzer> linux people say that instead of helping
Jan 14 14:17:23 <Towzzer> then they get mad when nobody uses linux
Jan 14 14:17:26 <Towzzer> it's their life cycle
Jan 14 14:17:32 <destinal-wirc> haha
Jan 14 14:17:45 <destinal-wirc> I figured out source of crash
Jan 14 14:18:02 <destinal-wirc> but want to fix without creating memory leak
Jan 14 14:18:08 <Rick-home> and there's an entirely new terminal in the works anyway.
Jan 14 14:18:22 <Towzzer> destinal you do good work
Jan 14 14:18:33 <Towzzer> I need to find that patch that makes the window square again
Jan 14 14:18:36 <Towzzer> it's not on preware
Jan 14 14:18:46 <destinal-wirc> sure, but the new terminal won't mean don't work on old
Jan 14 14:18:54 <Rick-home> No, it doesn't mean that.
Jan 14 14:19:20 <Rick-home> AAMOF, what would be really NICE would be to figure out how to do sdl &c  IN A PLUGIN
Jan 14 14:19:20 <destinal-wirc> especially given new pdk may give us lots of fun with plugins
Jan 14 14:19:36 <Rick-home> nodnod
Jan 14 14:19:36 <Towzzer> forget a terminal program
Jan 14 14:19:42 <Towzzer> if you port putty, then we just ssh localhost
Jan 14 14:19:48 <Towzzer> no need to make a terminal
Jan 14 14:19:57 <Rick-home> hahahaha
Jan 14 14:20:01 <destinal-wirc> I was trying to explain yesterday
Jan 14 14:20:16 <destinal-wirc> terminals are better than ssh clients
Jan 14 14:20:25 <Rick-home> nodnodnod  I agree
Jan 14 14:20:42 <Rick-home> once you have a terminal, you just use SSH to get where you're going by cleverly typing SSH SOMETHING
Jan 14 14:20:42 <destinal-wirc> you can run openssh or whatever in the linux shell
Jan 14 14:20:53 <Towzzer> ah but with putty you can save stuff, so less typing
Jan 14 14:21:00 <Towzzer> like a contact list for servers
Jan 14 14:21:11 <Towzzer> especially helpful ona device with a limited keyboard
Jan 14 14:21:43 <Rick-home> so, create a set of scripts  s1, s2, s3  which have soemthing like ssh this.that.otherthing  in them,  two keystrokes, no mouse clicks, and you're on.
Jan 14 14:21:46 <Rick-home> still better
Jan 14 14:22:00 <rwhitby> preware/cross-compile.git should build again now
Jan 14 14:22:13 <rwhitby> (I moved some packages to nonworking)
Jan 14 14:22:17 <Towzzer> so still have type
Jan 14 14:22:28 <Rick-home> what the hell are you doing up at 1 AM on a friday morning???
Jan 14 14:22:31 <Rick-home> Go to bed rod.
Jan 14 14:23:02 <rwhitby> Rick-home: I was working on meta-doctor
Jan 14 14:23:07 <cryptk> Towzzer, the squarify screen thing is in WOSQI tweaks
Jan 14 14:23:13 <rwhitby> it has a couple new features now
Jan 14 14:23:30 <Rick-home> oh.   You can tell me all about it in 12 hours or so.  :-)
Jan 14 14:23:50 * rwhitby bbt - Rick-home has spoken ;-)
Jan 14 14:23:57 <destinal-wirc> lol
Jan 14 14:24:04 <Rick-home> hehehehehe
Jan 14 14:24:05 <destinal-wirc> night rod
Jan 14 14:24:08 <cryptk> it would be convenient if we had a squarify screen patch in preware though
Jan 14 14:24:14 <cryptk> here is an idea
Jan 14 14:24:19 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: you have to listen to your elders
Jan 14 14:24:30 <destinal-wirc> rick is wise
Jan 14 14:24:33 <cryptk> destinal-wirc, is there a way to make it so when terminal is launched the black rounded corners go away?
Jan 14 14:24:42 <Rick-home> :L:googles for kneecap breakers in south central australia....::
Jan 14 14:25:07 <swisstomcat> night rwhitby
Jan 14 14:25:08 <destinal-wirc> cryptk: yeah I think so
Jan 14 14:25:21 <cryptk> Rick-home, http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=kneecap+breakers+in+south+central+australia
Jan 14 14:25:32 <destinal-wirc> not sure what attribute where does it
Jan 14 14:25:55 <cryptk> they get in the way when using terminal... it would be really nice if we could do that
Jan 14 14:25:58 <Pound-user> Say hi for precentral screenshot...
Jan 14 14:26:07 <cryptk> HI SCREENSHOT!!!
Jan 14 14:26:14 <cryptk> infobot, say hi
Jan 14 14:26:15 <infobot> hi
Jan 14 14:26:21 <Rubin> thanks
Jan 14 14:26:28 <Towzzer> One of my favorite things is shoutcast
Jan 14 14:26:32 <Towzzer> it's like free satellite radio
Jan 14 14:26:33 <Towzzer> in my car
Jan 14 14:26:53 <swisstomcat> hi
Jan 14 14:27:01 <cryptk> Towzzer, I just checked and the squarify screen does still work in 1.3.5.1
Jan 14 14:27:02 * Rick-home off to work.
Jan 14 14:27:09 <cryptk> I would assume 1.3.5.2 as well
Jan 14 14:27:13 <destinal-wirc> hello
Jan 14 14:28:04 <cryptk> so... why does infobot disconnect when you do ~beer... or is it lying and just saying it is disconnecting
Jan 14 14:28:53 <destinal-wirc> infobot: beer
Jan 14 14:28:54 * infobot has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
Jan 14 14:29:28 <Towzzer> i think it's a social statement about alcohol and how it can affect your ability to irc
Jan 14 14:29:32 <cryptk> happens with ~beer also, lol
Jan 14 14:29:33 <destinal-wirc> looks real
Jan 14 14:29:35 <cryptk> ~beer
Jan 14 14:29:36 * infobot has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
Jan 14 14:29:43 <cryptk> you never see it reconnect though
Jan 14 14:29:48 <destinal-wirc> is fake
Jan 14 14:29:48 <Towzzer> it never disconnects
Jan 14 14:29:51 <cryptk> makes me think it is fake...
Jan 14 14:29:54 <destinal-wirc> but looks real
Jan 14 14:29:54 <cryptk> ~whatever
Jan 14 14:29:56 <infobot> whatever is, like, an expression of confusionambivalence, or something else
Jan 14 14:30:00 <cryptk> ~skjldgha
Jan 14 14:30:01 * Towzzer has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
Jan 14 14:30:02 <Towzzer> there
Jan 14 14:30:06 <cryptk> see
Jan 14 14:30:11 <destinal-wirc> yeah it's /me
Jan 14 14:30:20 <destinal-wirc> but convincing
Jan 14 14:30:20 <cryptk> it can be faked... and it isn't cause infobot doesn't know what beer is
Jan 14 14:30:42 * cryptk has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by infobot))
Jan 14 14:30:48 <cryptk> very convincing
Jan 14 14:30:55 <destinal-wirc> cryptk: it's becase he disconnects to go get some
Jan 14 14:31:00 <cryptk> that must be it
Jan 14 14:31:05 <cryptk> he go's to grab a beer
Jan 14 14:31:10 <cryptk> infobot, get me a beer
Jan 14 14:31:11 * infobot fetches me a beer
Jan 14 14:31:25 <cryptk> haha, it doesn't know to replace me with you...
Jan 14 14:32:00 <destinal-wirc> infobot: get a life
Jan 14 14:32:02 * infobot fetches a life
Jan 14 14:33:32 <Towzzer> i heard the pixi is crap
Jan 14 14:33:52 <bpadalino|work> crap ?!?1
Jan 14 14:34:01 <bpadalino|work> i heard the build quality is excellent on the pixi
Jan 14 14:34:10 <Towzzer> ok
Jan 14 14:34:40 <bpadalino|work> inside, it doesn't have as much muscle as the pre .. but feeling wise it's a solid phone that is a good performer
Jan 14 14:34:56 <Towzzer> in the new palm pre for verizon
Jan 14 14:34:59 <Towzzer> the center button is gone
Jan 14 14:35:01 <Towzzer> i wonder why
Jan 14 14:35:02 <bpadalino|work> it is
Jan 14 14:35:14 <bpadalino|work> because it was annoying to both end users and to the manufacturer
Jan 14 14:35:17 <Towzzer> oh
Jan 14 14:35:28 <Towzzer> and it says better keyboard and slider
Jan 14 14:35:36 <bpadalino|work> that's what the reviews say
Jan 14 14:35:36 <swisstomcat> i didn't mind it
Jan 14 14:35:44 <cryptk> also Towzzer, Rubenstein has stated on multiple occasions that he uses his pixi more than his pre
Jan 14 14:36:10 <cryptk> infobot, what is the palm pre
Jan 14 14:36:11 <infobot> cryptk: I think you lost me on that one
Jan 14 14:36:18 <cryptk> wow... just... wow...
Jan 14 14:36:39 <Towzzer> who's rubenstein
Jan 14 14:36:44 <Towzzer> and impressionist painter?
Jan 14 14:36:51 <bpadalino|work> ceo of palm ?
Jan 14 14:36:55 <Towzzer> oh
Jan 14 14:37:06 <bpadalino|work> ex-appler who has never used an iphone ?
Jan 14 14:37:09 <Towzzer> i miss flip phones, no chance of damaging screen
Jan 14 14:37:18 <Towzzer> no accidental calls
Jan 14 14:37:19 <swisstomcat> a troll?
Jan 14 14:37:23 <Towzzer> no i'm not
Jan 14 14:37:33 <Towzzer> i'm just on a 5-hour energy binge and can't stop talking
Jan 14 14:37:37 <cryptk> infobot, the palm pre is a multimedia smartphone designed and marketed by Palm with a multi-touch screen and a sliding keyboard.
Jan 14 14:37:39 <infobot> ...but palm pre is already something else...
Jan 14 14:37:46 <cryptk> infobot, what is palm pre
Jan 14 14:37:48 <infobot> well, palm pre is a laggy useless device, or on your mom
Jan 14 14:38:05 <cryptk> infobot, no, palm pre is a multimedia smartphone designed and marketed by Palm with a multi-touch screen and a sliding keyboard.
Jan 14 14:38:07 <infobot> cryptk: okay
Jan 14 14:38:12 <swisstomcat> heh
Jan 14 14:38:15 <cryptk> wonder who set that one...
Jan 14 14:38:20 <Towzzer> infobot, pre
Jan 14 14:38:25 <Towzzer> infobot, palm pre
Jan 14 14:38:27 <infobot> hmm... palm pre is a multimedia smartphone designed and marketed by Palm with a multi-touch screen and a sliding keyboard.
Jan 14 14:38:28 <cryptk> ~palm pre
Jan 14 14:38:41 <Towzzer> hey unsigned int
Jan 14 14:38:59 <bpadalino|work> can't be unsigned long long ?
Jan 14 14:39:01 <bpadalino|work> :(
Jan 14 14:39:05 <unsigned> ..
Jan 14 14:39:10 <Towzzer> long double was my porn name
Jan 14 14:39:16 <bpadalino|work> nerdy
Jan 14 14:40:07 <cryptk> anyway, now that I am home from werk... time for work...
Jan 14 14:40:21 <cryptk> gotta love the life of a freelance web developer...
Jan 14 14:40:43 <unsigned> IE6 support? :P
Jan 14 14:40:50 <unsigned> No thankx
Jan 14 14:41:54 <cryptk> unsigned, I code to accepted standards... not to IE6 crap
Jan 14 14:42:16 <unsigned> Thats great.. not everybody has that luxury
Jan 14 14:42:31 <unsigned> the man with the money makes the rules :(
Jan 14 14:42:51 <cryptk> if it is coded to accepted standards it will run in IE
Jan 14 14:43:04 <cryptk> as well as any other browser
Jan 14 14:43:30 <swisstomcat> not if it's html5
Jan 14 14:43:32 <CoolMatty> not always >.>
Jan 14 14:43:54 <CoolMatty> gotta love how IE6 handles height and min-height (or lack thereof)
Jan 14 14:44:24 <swisstomcat> rgba colors, borders, local storage, ...
Jan 14 14:44:27 <cryptk> swisstomcat, HTML5 is not yet an accepted standard
Jan 14 14:44:37 <cryptk> it is a standard in the works
Jan 14 14:44:42 <cryptk> we call that a proposed standard
Jan 14 14:44:55 <cryptk> although at this stage, it isn't even proposed... it is a planned standard
Jan 14 14:45:05 <cryptk> I code to ACCEPTED standards
Jan 14 14:45:19 <CoolMatty> CSS2 is an accepted standard and IE6 is not exactly good with that
Jan 14 14:46:20 <cryptk> IE6 is 8 years old... about time to move on isn't it
Jan 14 14:46:28 <swisstomcat> yeah
Jan 14 14:46:32 <cryptk> hell, even IE7 is a couple years old, lol
Jan 14 14:46:39 <bpadalino|work> i use fortran 77 for all the code i write
Jan 14 14:46:52 <swisstomcat> time to overtake ie6 and leave it in the dust
Jan 14 14:46:56 <CoolMatty> Hey I'd love to just pretend there aren't millions upon millions of IE6 users
Jan 14 14:47:07 <swisstomcat> not that i ever use ie
Jan 14 14:47:23 <unsigned> just write some malware that updates everyones browser to IE8
Jan 14 14:47:31 <swisstomcat> ares doesn't support ie at all
Jan 14 14:47:40 <cryptk> that isn't malware... that is "protect you from yourself-ware"
Jan 14 14:47:40 <CoolMatty> neither does google wave
Jan 14 14:47:55 <cryptk> anyways, work time for real...
Jan 14 14:48:57 <CoolMatty> but mostly that's cause Google Wave is slow enough in Webkit/Firefox... trying to run it on IE without a compiling JS engine is suicide
Jan 14 14:50:28 <swisstomcat> some people say "to hell with html5, let's use silverlight or adobe air"
Jan 14 14:50:57 <swisstomcat> now that's a solution :)
Jan 14 14:55:02 <swisstomcat> just use the browser as a plugin-launcher ... nah, i'll pass
Jan 14 15:00:13 <zsoc> dtzWill: yo! I saw versioning! is it go time?
Jan 14 15:00:49 <dtzWill> zsoc: it's test time! check it out in the preware testing feed :D
Jan 14 15:01:19 <zsoc> dtzWill: loading now :) saw the 'rom loader' code. it's hella sexy
Jan 14 15:01:25 <dtzWill> :D:D
Jan 14 15:02:57 <zsoc> dtzWill: so in theory one could download a rom (of a game he owns of course) from device with an orange click? and shuffle it to the right directory with internalz (or similar)?
Jan 14 15:03:23 <zsoc> dtzWill: lol gba icon? I thought gba didn't work ;)
Jan 14 15:03:45 <dtzWill> zsoc: yes you can download the roms that way
Jan 14 15:03:56 <dBsooner> hape: email me the information to 'webos at dbsooner dot com'
Jan 14 15:04:06 <dtzWill> zsoc: most games play 50-80% w/no sound, gba i mean. so ... testing worthy
Jan 14 15:04:20 <dtzWill> zsoc: and for turn-based games (pokemon, golden sun, etc) it's sufficient and i'm having a blast
Jan 14 15:04:20 <zsoc> dtzWill: ah gotcha.
Jan 14 15:04:22 <dBsooner> hape: I will need the patch file, any screenshots, etc and all the information the form needs in the email.
Jan 14 15:04:45 <dBsooner> hape: I can't duplicate your problem and no one else is reporting issues. I have submitted numerous via the form with no problems.
Jan 14 15:06:21 <zsoc> dtzWill: folder /vba and /vba/roms should be created in the postinst, no?
Jan 14 15:06:22 <CoolMatty> test time for what? hmm? :D
Jan 14 15:06:45 <CoolMatty> oh yeah, how do I get the preware test feed
Jan 14 15:07:01 <dtzWill> ~test-feed
Jan 14 15:07:06 <dtzWill> aw man deNIED
Jan 14 15:07:16 <CoolMatty> ?
Jan 14 15:07:20 <cryptk|work> !testing-feed
Jan 14 15:07:20 <Alyazir> When doctoring, does it matter which version of webOS doctor I use (sprint, O2, etc.)?
Jan 14 15:07:24 <cryptk|work> !testing_feed
Jan 14 15:07:29 <cryptk|work> ~testing-feed
Jan 14 15:07:31 <infobot> i guess testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds
Jan 14 15:07:33 <cryptk|work> stupid ~
Jan 14 15:07:39 <dBsooner> Btw: Good morning ya'll
Jan 14 15:07:45 <swisstomcat> morning
Jan 14 15:07:47 <cryptk|work> mornin dB
Jan 14 15:07:54 <destinal-wirc> ~lamer
Jan 14 15:07:54 <dtzWill> cryptk|work: ty :)
Jan 14 15:07:55 <infobot> i guess lamer is a guy who loves geek girls, or the only 28 year old child genius in the world. someone who cant spell lamer, or a person who is generally lame, often also a troll.
Jan 14 15:08:00 <CoolMatty> ah ok, thanks
Jan 14 15:08:07 <swisstomcat> alyazir: for doctoring or webosquickinstall
Jan 14 15:08:14 <Alyazir> doctoring
Jan 14 15:08:27 <swisstomcat> then it's important
Jan 14 15:08:35 <swisstomcat> i would say
Jan 14 15:08:39 <Alyazir> Well, I am with none of those providers
Jan 14 15:08:47 <cryptk|work> hey dBsooner, I have been meaning to ask you... how hard would it be to make a second portal like the one you have... but show all of the preware feeds... just to be able to browse them from a computer
Jan 14 15:09:01 <dtzWill> zsoc: pm me any feedback you have.. oh great tester :D
Jan 14 15:09:14 <dBsooner> cryptk|work: If all we did was parse the Packages file, not very hard at all
Jan 14 15:09:19 <zsoc> dtzWill: I should rephrase my question. is there a reason mkdir -P isn't done on postinst for ..vba/roms?
Jan 14 15:09:19 <CoolMatty> I'll test it out too dtzWill, just like last time :D
Jan 14 15:09:20 <destinal-wirc> tis a shame we don't have infobot listening to chatter
Jan 14 15:09:42 <cryptk|work> dBsooner, yeah, no submitting like you can do on the patches one... just something to browse the feeds
Jan 14 15:09:54 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: yes, please do! pm me anything you think of regarding problems/suggestions/ideas/etc
Jan 14 15:10:09 <CoolMatty> downloading now :D
Jan 14 15:10:23 <dtzWill> zsoc: uh that's an intersting question. the binary does equiv of that when you run it :P haha
Jan 14 15:10:24 <dBsooner> cryptk|work: I think that would be quite simple. It would just be a matter of grabbing the Packages files and parsing them.
Jan 14 15:10:28 <CoolMatty> so is the roms folder in media/internal?
Jan 14 15:10:36 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: just run it, no help :)
Jan 14 15:10:38 <cryptk|work> CoolMatty, yes
Jan 14 15:10:40 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: (it tells you)
Jan 14 15:10:40 <zsoc> dtzWill: oh. wha if I want to mv a rom before I run it the first time? ;)
Jan 14 15:10:45 <CoolMatty> oh ok
Jan 14 15:10:53 <dtzWill> zsoc: then guess where it goes :P
Jan 14 15:11:05 <dtzWill> zsoc: i guess the script could do that, that would make it clearer and doeshn't hurt anything
Jan 14 15:11:06 <zsoc> dtzWill: lol ok I get your point
Jan 14 15:11:07 <CoolMatty> thats why I was asking too haha
Jan 14 15:11:12 <dtzWill> but but but
Jan 14 15:11:15 <dtzWill> the no-rom screen
Jan 14 15:11:16 <dtzWill> is COOL
Jan 14 15:11:18 <dtzWill> :P
Jan 14 15:11:35 <CoolMatty> I saw the no-rom screen :p
Jan 14 15:11:39 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: woo
Jan 14 15:11:39 <CoolMatty> nice blue :p
Jan 14 15:12:10 <zsoc> dtzWill: found a small issue :)
Jan 14 15:12:21 <dtzWill> zsoc: oh noes. what? :(
Jan 14 15:12:30 <zsoc> dtzWill: doesn't see zipped roms, but vba plays them zipped from command line
Jan 14 15:12:47 <tlp> Is it just me, or is Preware broken?
Jan 14 15:12:51 <CoolMatty> YAY BETTER SCALING <3
Jan 14 15:12:57 <zsoc> tlp: just you?
Jan 14 15:12:58 <dtzWill> zsoc: oh yeah i don't support those, meant to put that on my todo and it's not. alright i'll do that.
Jan 14 15:13:02 <tlp> I keep getting "Failure during 'update' operation" errors
Jan 14 15:13:11 <tlp> wget 404
Jan 14 15:13:14 <dtzWill> zsoc: i really should make this todo a wiki somewhere... i am TERRIBLE at remembering these things :)
Jan 14 15:13:15 <tlp> which causes the entire thing to break
Jan 14 15:13:20 <swisstomcat> which version tlp?
Jan 14 15:13:25 <dtzWill> and my whiteboard is only so big :P
Jan 14 15:13:27 <zsoc> dtzWill: just because they generally come zipped, and the average person doesn't know how to unzip them on device
Jan 14 15:13:27 <tlp> 0.9.16
Jan 14 15:13:36 <zsoc> dtzWill: lol!
Jan 14 15:13:40 <CoolMatty> also congrats on fixing the "crash on minimize" bug
Jan 14 15:13:47 <cryptk|work> dtzWill, I agree, I deleted over 150 roms just to look at it
Jan 14 15:13:50 * cryptk|work wonders if dtzWill actually believed that...
Jan 14 15:13:50 <swisstomcat> i had this error once after installing 0.9.16
Jan 14 15:13:50 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: it's not fixed, just.... less bad
Jan 14 15:13:55 <zsoc> tlp: one of your feeds is not working
Jan 14 15:13:56 <swisstomcat> didn't reappear after restarting preware
Jan 14 15:14:01 <CoolMatty> ah :D
Jan 14 15:14:08 <zsoc> tlp: I can almost guarantee it's prethemer
Jan 14 15:14:10 <dtzWill> cryptk|work: hahaha excellent xD. i hope you just moved them or something xD
Jan 14 15:14:11 <tlp> zsoc: just go through and turn them all off until I figure it out?
Jan 14 15:14:13 <swisstomcat> tlp: does it happen every time?
Jan 14 15:14:14 <tlp> zsoc: I turned that one off
Jan 14 15:14:16 <tlp> yes swisstomcat
Jan 14 15:14:21 <cryptk|work> dtzWill, I was just kidding
Jan 14 15:14:31 <cryptk|work> back to working...
Jan 14 15:14:32 <CoolMatty> no way to go back to the rom menu from ingame yet I assume
Jan 14 15:14:41 <swisstomcat> tlp: i turned off the theme feeds and it worked
Jan 14 15:14:44 <dtzWill> cryptk|work: work work
Jan 14 15:15:01 <tlp> swisstomcat: yeah, I turned those off anyway. That's not it for me.
Jan 14 15:15:11 <swisstomcat> still happening?
Jan 14 15:15:22 <zsoc> tlp: swisstomcat, prethemer feed is the only one that isn't hosted on weos-internsls servers, from what I know
Jan 14 15:15:24 <tlp> there, turned them all off
Jan 14 15:15:28 <tlp> we'll see what it does
Jan 14 15:15:32 <swisstomcat> let me start preware
Jan 14 15:15:34 <tlp> haha, that worked
Jan 14 15:15:38 <zsoc> tlp: your data service on your phone may be borked. can you open browser?
Jan 14 15:15:41 <tlp> yep
Jan 14 15:15:44 <tlp> it works fine
Jan 14 15:15:50 <tlp> this just happened when I last upgraded
Jan 14 15:16:07 <tlp> anyway, gotta get going to work
Jan 14 15:16:08 <tlp> bbl
Jan 14 15:16:24 <swisstomcat> cya
Jan 14 15:16:28 <CoolMatty> haha gba roms still slow :D
Jan 14 15:16:38 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: YOU optimize it for arm ;) :P
Jan 14 15:16:51 <CoolMatty> oh hell no :D
Jan 14 15:16:54 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: it's a wip, sorry. but turn off sound and many games are playable
Jan 14 15:17:04 <dtzWill> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:VBA#Feature_Requests hahaha i wasn't kidding :)
Jan 14 15:17:07 <CoolMatty> same old method for sound off though
Jan 14 15:17:17 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: asterisk/star/orange+z
Jan 14 15:17:49 <CoolMatty> oh cool that's an improvement then ;)
Jan 14 15:18:03 <CoolMatty> and now I see the controls on the wiki
Jan 14 15:18:07 <CoolMatty> I'll stop asking stupid questions now :p
Jan 14 15:18:13 <zsoc> dtzWill: I managed to crash pokemon blue by unfocusing the card
Jan 14 15:19:16 <CoolMatty> one thing I never got working in the config file was "color" support for the GB games. I thought VBA had a way to colorize old GB games like the GBC/Super Gameboy did
Jan 14 15:19:21 <zsoc> dtzWill: rom selector menu is genius tho. we need to use it for all 'file loading' sdl apps. maybe something similar for the vnc connect screen?
Jan 14 15:19:23 <CoolMatty> not that it particularly matters lol
Jan 14 15:20:06 <dtzWill> zsoc: zonyl has something, although when i built it it didn't work for me.
Jan 14 15:20:15 <dtzWill> zsoc: but yeah i was pretty happy with it. you can scroll!! :D
Jan 14 15:20:19 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 14 15:20:21 <dtzWill> as i said before....
Jan 14 15:20:28 * dtzWill is proud of implementing basic gui functionality
Jan 14 15:20:50 <zsoc> dtzWill: LOL. the card is still in landscape mode, like when you get notifications ;)
Jan 14 15:20:52 <dtzWill> zsoc: it occasionally crashes when minimized, see http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:VBA#Known_issues (I'm making these up as i go... :D)
Jan 14 15:21:30 <CoolMatty> dtzWill: feature request, 0 scaling option for filters
Jan 14 15:21:36 <CoolMatty> (aka 1:1 display)
Jan 14 15:22:04 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: hit apostrophe to kill the linear pixel scaling and go to nearest neighbor (it'll do more of what you want probably)
Jan 14 15:22:16 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: if that isn't it, then add that to the wiki please :D.
Jan 14 15:22:18 <CoolMatty> yea I did that and it looks better, just saying :p
Jan 14 15:22:25 <CoolMatty> 1:1 would be no scaling at all
Jan 14 15:22:48 * CoolMatty registers to the wiki >.>
Jan 14 15:23:00 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: "looks better" is hard to describe--right now gb/gbc scale "nicely" to the screen, the gba doesn't--and then the blur/linear is super useful and required for it to not look terrible
Jan 14 15:23:06 <dtzWill> (Which is why it's the default)
Jan 14 15:23:19 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: i understand what 1:1 means i was just guessing the underlying reason, sorry.
Jan 14 15:23:30 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: just b/c you think the graphics might look less pixelated?
Jan 14 15:24:19 <CoolMatty> yeah I'm one of those graphical types. I'd rather have smaller screen and be perfect looking than larger but scaled :p
Jan 14 15:24:48 <CoolMatty> and I understand you'd have to scale GBA, at least until we get some overlay controls for gba going :D
Jan 14 15:24:51 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: do you know much of the pixel art scaling algorithms? (popularly used in emus?) i hope to support scale2x, hq2x, 2xSAI at some point
Jan 14 15:25:11 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_art_scaling_algorithms
Jan 14 15:25:11 <CoolMatty> yeah I'm familiar with them
Jan 14 15:25:17 <dtzWill> kk
Jan 14 15:25:58 <CoolMatty> VB has some pretty nice custom scaler/filters too, that others don't.
Jan 14 15:26:08 <CoolMatty> but they'd lag the hell out of this port :d
Jan 14 15:26:57 <swisstomcat> laterz
Jan 14 15:27:11 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: they wouldn't i don't thin, there are GLSL implementations gpl'd that should do the trick.. at leats entirely push it to the gpu :)
Jan 14 15:27:16 <PuffTheMagic> morning
Jan 14 15:27:17 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: yo!
Jan 14 15:27:27 <zsoc> WHAT IS POUND? an irc client that sint wIRC? wtf?!?!
Jan 14 15:27:45 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: huh?
Jan 14 15:27:46 <CoolMatty> is that PuffyIRC? :p
Jan 14 15:27:58 <PuffTheMagic> what u talking about
Jan 14 15:28:12 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: hey! :D
Jan 14 15:28:29 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: when you gonna start porting evas to GLES ?
Jan 14 15:28:34 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: wtf u talking baout
Jan 14 15:28:40 <CoolMatty> amazing job btw dtzWill, don't let my feature requests seem like I'm not grateful. this is awesome :D
Jan 14 15:29:00 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: precentral feed
Jan 14 15:29:06 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: glad you like it--but feature request away. whether i, or someone else implements them... it doesn't hurt and can only help :D
Jan 14 15:29:18 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: link
Jan 14 15:29:26 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: never started. wasnt' sure that was still req'd. i thuoght it already supported gles?
Jan 14 15:29:37 <PuffTheMagic> it supports GL
Jan 14 15:29:49 <PuffTheMagic> so what ever you did for VBA will probably needed for evas
Jan 14 15:29:54 <zsoc> dtzWill: is there a 'pause state' functionality in vba? may help the crashing on unfocus
Jan 14 15:30:25 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: well vba wasn't even gl, it was just sdl calls i replaced all the rendering with it, and some pixel format magic
Jan 14 15:30:28 <CoolMatty> vba is capable of it, but it's not keybound anywhere zsoc
Jan 14 15:30:34 <PuffTheMagic> ohhh
Jan 14 15:30:40 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: but btwn that and work with ali1 on wesGL i think perhaps we can make something happen
Jan 14 15:30:48 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: it's in preware, in the precentral feed
Jan 14 15:31:07 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: errr it used to do some terrible blitting, replaced the blits+scaling (+pixel art scaling effects) with gpu goodness
Jan 14 15:31:18 <CoolMatty> ah Pound uses qWebIRC
Jan 14 15:31:21 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: well evas/ecore  has openGL supports, so id have to image it not to hard to port
Jan 14 15:31:30 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: i just opened prware and dont see it
Jan 14 15:31:35 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: whats the precentra linky
Jan 14 15:31:45 <PuffTheMagic> oh was in updates not new
Jan 14 15:31:47 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: list of everything 'pound'. I'm on wirc right now
Jan 14 15:31:47 <dtzWill> CoolMatty, zsoc hmm i'll look into that. not sure. i mean it does have pause, but i'm not sure i can hook into the minimize events-----i thought i already was o_O.
Jan 14 15:31:56 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: I never saw it before
Jan 14 15:32:08 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: oh thats rubin
Jan 14 15:32:20 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: he was the one comming around here back when we were gettinhg wIRC released
Jan 14 15:32:23 <CoolMatty> dtzWill: it does seem to pause on minimize so maybe you are :p
Jan 14 15:32:25 <PuffTheMagic> he had an irc client working
Jan 14 15:32:37 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: yeah i'd hope it's not too bad. no idea though.
Jan 14 15:32:48 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: some of the 3d stuff it does/supports might get messy to refactor
Jan 14 15:33:02 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: he doesnt need a service for his irc stuff
Jan 14 15:33:05 <PuffTheMagic> i forgot how it works
Jan 14 15:33:32 <CoolMatty> dtzWill: (I'll put this on the wiki) place .sav files in a different folder from ROMs maybe, to keep it uncluttered.
Jan 14 15:33:34 <PuffTheMagic> maybe it works in bnc's or something idk
Jan 14 15:33:44 <CoolMatty> by default vba creates .sav files in teh same folder as the .gb
Jan 14 15:33:59 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: the next version of wIRC is gonna blow people out of the water
Jan 14 15:34:35 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: evas is all 2d stuff though, its not really a 3d engine
Jan 14 15:34:43 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: its like all 2d raster graphics stuff
Jan 14 15:34:49 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: great, throw that on the wiki, that's an easy (and important/useful) fix
Jan 14 15:35:24 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: oh okay. never used it, and the stage build was broken .. and i had other things to do. jsut that 3d on the youtube vid led me to believe it had some 3d abstractions that may or may not be hardware accelerated
Jan 14 15:35:30 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: I actually believe you. and I love getting blown
Jan 14 15:35:41 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: if I were you I would talk to rwhitby about getting a Trac setup for VBA
Jan 14 15:35:56 <CoolMatty> I guess I should test the save function actually
Jan 14 15:36:03 <CoolMatty> I see it makes the .savs but I don't know if it's reading them lol
Jan 14 15:36:05 <PuffTheMagic> but i need xcomp to finnish getting the rest of efl in the WIDK
Jan 14 15:36:25 <Sonic-NKT> reading sav works
Jan 14 15:36:50 <Sonic-NKT> copied over a Gnuboy sav for zelda from another handheld and it loaded up just fine
Jan 14 15:37:09 <zsoc> dtzWill: so this game saves every minute. is that a function of the rom or vba?
Jan 14 15:37:29 <PuffTheMagic> that sounds like vba feature
Jan 14 15:37:38 <PuffTheMagic> but mauybe not
Jan 14 15:37:41 <PuffTheMagic> idk what tuype of save
Jan 14 15:37:51 <Sonic-NKT> battery save is rom feature :)
Jan 14 15:37:54 <PuffTheMagic> its its one of those mem captures  for the whole machine or a real save game
Jan 14 15:37:59 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: 'save state'. I only ask because no one else mentioned it
Jan 14 15:38:48 <zsoc> dtzWill: so golden sun works, but gotta turn sound off right?
Jan 14 15:39:04 <dtzWill> zsoc: yep. also the intro is worse than the rest of the game b/c of the crazy weather effects.
Jan 14 15:39:11 <CoolMatty> zsoc: it lags though
Jan 14 15:39:15 <CoolMatty> even with sound off
Jan 14 15:39:24 <CoolMatty> even beyond the intro sadly
Jan 14 15:39:31 <CoolMatty> its just worse on the intro :p
Jan 14 15:39:34 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: that's a good idea, trac. i just through the wiki thing up b/c i lose "trac" (har?) of these things so easily
Jan 14 15:39:36 <CoolMatty> (and during battle lol)
Jan 14 15:39:40 <zsoc> must... figure.. out.. how.. to optimize... gba.. for arm...
Jan 14 15:39:53 <dtzWill> zsoc: iphone/gp2x ports did a damn good job, feel free to port patches over
Jan 14 15:40:07 <zsoc> dtzWill: is it GLES stuff?
Jan 14 15:40:07 <CoolMatty> yeah battery saves do work. Also, dtzWill, when it loads a rom with an existign save, it says "loaded battery". Not sure if you want it to show that on rom load or not?
Jan 14 15:40:19 <dtzWill> zsoc: i just wish others published (or used??) their version control--more useful than looking at code is seeing how it evolved.. and we don't get any of that
Jan 14 15:40:19 <Sonic-NKT> tho its not a real vba port for ths
Jan 14 15:40:43 <Sonic-NKT> those system.. its a highly optimized emu... gpsp
Jan 14 15:40:45 <zsoc> dtzWill: true. webos internals gitweb is super detailed
Jan 14 15:41:14 <Sonic-NKT> it was original developed for the psp i think
Jan 14 15:41:25 <CoolMatty> wow, no one feature request'd custom control config yet haha
Jan 14 15:42:13 <dtzWill> Sonic-NKT: yeah that sounds right. but i would be surprised if we couldn't find useful pieces from it--most of the work i've done is aboce the core anyway so even if we end up ripping large chunks of it out.. i don't really care about VBA for the sake of being vba (although claiming same compatability is nice for now)
Jan 14 15:42:44 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: I believe sav files store the entire state of the thing, i was under the impression they were emulator specific?
Jan 14 15:42:44 <CoolMatty> pokemon emerald and firered don't work
Jan 14 15:42:52 <CoolMatty> I assume it's a save battery issue
Jan 14 15:42:54 <CoolMatty> but they won't load
Jan 14 15:42:59 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: sure they do. your saves probably weren't made with 128k
Jan 14 15:43:00 <CoolMatty> *flash sav issue
Jan 14 15:43:06 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: delete the sav and try again, sorry :/
Jan 14 15:43:25 <CoolMatty> there's no sav there. so its not creating it properly automatically
Jan 14 15:43:32 <CoolMatty> I could probably use my existing save though
Jan 14 15:43:44 <CoolMatty> guess I'll try that
Jan 14 15:43:55 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: thats what i thought too about the saves
Jan 14 15:43:56 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: maybe? it definitely works for me (emerald anyway) and it was my existing sav that was the issue. if it doesn't work still let me know, that's no good
Jan 14 15:44:19 <zsoc> dtzWill: the gp2x vba is only about 6fps
Jan 14 15:44:22 <CoolMatty> retesting right now.
Jan 14 15:44:35 <dtzWill> zsoc: re: asving every minute.. i don't really know. i didn't do that; i left the logic there well enough alone, didn't wanna fight having it NOT save when it should.
Jan 14 15:44:42 <dtzWill> zsoc: but if there's a concern/problem lemme know
Jan 14 15:44:45 <Sonic-NKT> zsoc: but not the gpsp for gp2x :)
Jan 14 15:44:50 <zsoc> got it
Jan 14 15:44:53 <dtzWill> ahhh we have a wiki and i already feel overwhelmed haha :D
Jan 14 15:44:56 <dtzWill> (no worries, it's good)
Jan 14 15:44:58 <CoolMatty> dtzWill: did you see my question above about "loaded battery" message
Jan 14 15:45:07 <egaudet_work> Why does repair utility need to be updated for each webos version ? :confused:
Jan 14 15:46:08 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: no, was it directed at me? :/
Jan 14 15:46:23 <CoolMatty> yeah. I was asking if you wanted that message to appear every time :p
Jan 14 15:46:46 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: oh i suppose not haha. o_O. frankly i kinda hate the red text :P but i re-implemented it since i didn't have an immediately better idea
Jan 14 15:47:16 <CoolMatty> ah ok
Jan 14 15:47:24 <CoolMatty> can you display maybe a disk icon?
Jan 14 15:47:32 <CoolMatty> instead of text?
Jan 14 15:47:47 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: maybe, sounds like work o_O. ;).
Jan 14 15:47:54 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: seriously that's a decent idea though, i'll consider it :)
Jan 14 15:47:55 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: test those new patches in the feed.
Jan 14 15:48:08 <zsoc> dtzWill: oh cmon, you love blitting images everywhere ;)
Jan 14 15:48:21 <egaudet_work> Test them?
Jan 14 15:48:30 <dtzWill> zsoc: well if i could then i would have an overlay and onscreen controls already :(:(
Jan 14 15:48:33 <CoolMatty> find some unicode text that looks like a floppy disk. I'm sure there's one, there's a unicode symbol for everything! >.>
Jan 14 15:48:40 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: Yeah.. . install them.
Jan 14 15:48:47 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: does the portal admin have a "verify on stock webos" ability?
Jan 14 15:48:49 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: I have no idea if they install or not. :)
Jan 14 15:49:05 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/webos-patches/
Jan 14 15:49:11 <dBsooner> it's on my to-do list
Jan 14 15:49:36 <dBsooner> probably going to happen tonight.. Next ticket is proper sorting of the browse function
Jan 14 15:49:37 <egaudet_work> ok well when you implement it, make sure you grep for the "stripping tailing CR" or whatever line that you get from linux
Jan 14 15:49:52 <egaudet_work> a patch like that will apply cleanly on your PC but fail on the Pre
Jan 14 15:49:59 <egaudet_work> s/Pre/webos device/
Jan 14 15:49:59 <infobot> egaudet_work meant: a patch like that will apply cleanly on your PC but fail on the webos device
Jan 14 15:50:19 <dBsooner> huh?
Jan 14 15:50:28 <dBsooner> my machine is linux..
Jan 14 15:50:45 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2 yo!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 14 15:50:59 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: put dos mode CR in a patch, then dry-run it on linux
Jan 14 15:50:59 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: where you been i thought something happened to you
Jan 14 15:51:11 <egaudet_work> you see the "stripping traililng CR" or whatever message
Jan 14 15:51:34 <egaudet_work> but that is a failure point for the GNU patch from optware that we use
Jan 14 15:51:44 <dBsooner> all I will do is dump the stdout and stderr to the webpage via: `patch -p1 --dry-run -d /path/to/stock/os/ < /path/to/test.patch 2>&1`
Jan 14 15:52:01 <egaudet_work> PuffTheMagic: when you start to work on native wirc let me know
Jan 14 15:52:28 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: why?
Jan 14 15:52:38 <CoolMatty> I wonder why pulseaudio is grinding away at 2% when VBA is sound off
Jan 14 15:52:43 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: because that's all I need to do to "test" apply the patch
Jan 14 15:52:56 <egaudet_work> ok so you hit "test" and theN "OK stdout looks good"
Jan 14 15:53:04 <Zuchmir2> puff: pong
Jan 14 15:53:09 <dBsooner> right
Jan 14 15:53:13 <dBsooner> go look at admin area
Jan 14 15:53:22 <dBsooner> click "Git Status"
Jan 14 15:53:33 <dBsooner> it dumps the commands stdout and stderr to the window
Jan 14 15:53:43 <dBsooner> you look to make sure the info looks good.. then click "Git Add"
Jan 14 15:53:49 <dBsooner> again, all is dumped to window
Jan 14 15:53:54 <dBsooner> then "Git Status" again to make sure
Jan 14 15:54:03 <dBsooner> git "Git Commit"
Jan 14 15:54:09 <dBsooner> then Git Tag
Jan 14 15:54:12 <dBsooner> then Git Push
Jan 14 15:56:09 <zsoc> dtzWill: hey uh.. so.. you know those 'good ports' of gba/SP that work on gp2x and iphone?
Jan 14 15:56:23 <zsoc> dtzWill: they use dynarec D:
Jan 14 15:56:23 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet_work: we need the rest of efl in WIDK first, i want to get a decent version of terminus out first
Jan 14 15:56:53 <zsoc> dtzWill: that's how it runs on arm so well
Jan 14 15:57:15 <CoolMatty> yeah thats what they do for PSP as well
Jan 14 15:57:17 <CoolMatty> dynarec
Jan 14 15:58:01 <CoolMatty> still, since it's the same CPU as the iPhone, it shouldn't matter about the dynarec though, right?
Jan 14 15:58:20 <zsoc> well crap. that sounds complex. the only thing I know about compiling in real time is GLSL which is a pita
Jan 14 15:58:58 <dtzWill> zsoc: yes they do.
Jan 14 15:59:05 <CoolMatty> the dynarec coder guys are pretty much insane asm guys
Jan 14 15:59:10 <dtzWill> zsoc: and yes they're scary, that's why they're not ported yet.
Jan 14 15:59:18 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: doesn't surprise me, that's an intense undertaking :/
Jan 14 15:59:33 <SunFire1985> now i can install everything but preware... even PMS 0.9.31 but its just hanging with 0.9.16
Jan 14 15:59:43 <dtzWill> unless I can find a nice way to bring some of their stuff over I don't immediately see that happening in the near future guys :(
Jan 14 15:59:45 <CoolMatty> I mean, you only need to know the complete underlying hardware between both the GBA and the OMAP, so hey, not that hard! *cough*
Jan 14 15:59:47 <zsoc> dtzWill: I can look for the asm in the source of gbSP? :)
Jan 14 16:00:09 <dtzWill> zsoc: you can do what you like and I encourage you to. that would be a good start
Jan 14 16:00:15 <dtzWill> oo that didnt' sound good, damn enter key
Jan 14 16:00:28 <dtzWill> zsoc: i just mean I'm not gonna tell you what you should do :)
Jan 14 16:00:38 <dtzWill> zsoc: I'm not really sure where to start regarding porting stuff over.
Jan 14 16:00:59 <dtzWill> zsoc: it might not be a terrible idea ot port the whole thing over and then patch up the frontend to what i have... idk. if i had more time i might
Jan 14 16:01:17 <CoolMatty> hey dtzWill: I don't recall VBA doing this when I disabled sound, but right now with sound off, pulseaudio is still using 3% of the CPU
Jan 14 16:01:35 <zsoc> dtzWill: I'm going to look, the 'optimizations' might ONLY be multiple byte copying.
Jan 14 16:01:41 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: idk about that. you disable with star right, not volume down? but 3% is kinda noise.
Jan 14 16:01:52 <dtzWill> zsoc: that's certianly a win. i can point you to the code in vba that does that
Jan 14 16:01:57 <CoolMatty> yes I did, with *.
Jan 14 16:02:08 <CoolMatty> pulseaudio drops to 0 when VBA closes
Jan 14 16:02:13 <CoolMatty> so I don't know what it's doing when VBA is running
Jan 14 16:02:17 <egaudet_work> dtzWill: zsoc, you guys port any glTexGen stuff from GL to GLES?
Jan 14 16:02:24 <dtzWill> zsoc: really a good guide is looking where x86 asm was in the vba port and replace it (as appropriate) with arm
Jan 14 16:02:25 <CoolMatty> are you sure you turned it off in the source, and not just enabled mute? :p
Jan 14 16:02:39 <dtzWill> zsoc: the idea being if it was a good place to optimize, it would already be asm-ified
Jan 14 16:02:50 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: its drops from 15-3%, i'm doing something right
Jan 14 16:02:58 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: although it's different than starting with no sound on, you're correct
Jan 14 16:03:06 <CoolMatty> yes, thats what I'm thinking
Jan 14 16:03:11 <CoolMatty> let me run the old version again and see
Jan 14 16:03:37 <zsoc> dtzWill: what did you did with the x86 asm stuff? avoid it?
Jan 14 16:03:47 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: but I couldnt' find a good way to properly turn it off--despite grabbing the sound lock it always ended up barfing on me, some race, idk.  since it went down from 15->3% i called it good and moved on
Jan 14 16:04:22 <dtzWill> zsoc: they had it already conditionally compiling around it. #ifdef C_CORE etc. i don't think i removed any of that from the core, pretty dang sure i wouldn't do that :)
Jan 14 16:04:52 <CoolMatty> yeah I can confirm. your old version, pulseaudio doesn't even do anything with soundOff=1.
Jan 14 16:05:21 <CoolMatty> new version still runs the audio somehow, maybe just muted. not sure :/
Jan 14 16:05:23 <CoolMatty> just saying
Jan 14 16:05:52 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: new version should do the same thing
Jan 14 16:05:55 <zsoc> egaudet_work: doesn't gltexgen just get tossed in an array?
Jan 14 16:06:04 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: i mean if you set it via cfg
Jan 14 16:06:10 <CoolMatty> I'll try
Jan 14 16:06:31 <egaudet_work> zsoc: I thought so, but then there are things like TexGeni with SPHERE_MAP that look like they need some complicated formula
Jan 14 16:06:38 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: it's that while it's RUNNING the code really doesn't wanna stop the sound without stopping emulation altogether.  I'm sure it's possible but that path wasn't well defined and what I did got the most of it.
Jan 14 16:06:58 <zsoc> egaudet: ouch... check nanogl algos?
Jan 14 16:07:00 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: but that's important to iron out.  it would be better if pusleaudio wasn't a bitch and took up 15% cpu to do nothing important >:O
Jan 14 16:07:04 <CoolMatty> yeah I'm not sure if VBA can do that while it's running
Jan 14 16:07:15 <CoolMatty> could always be a pre-launch option :p
Jan 14 16:07:35 <CoolMatty> confirmed, no pulseaudio being a bitch when the .cfg is in the directory
Jan 14 16:07:44 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: take a look at gl-wes-v2 in the tree. it supports glTexGen.
Jan 14 16:07:58 <CoolMatty> also, pressing * when sound is off in cfg = bad idea (crashed VBA lol)
Jan 14 16:08:36 <egaudet_work> do we have that in a webosinternals repo?
Jan 14 16:09:04 <bsm> hm, has anyone recognized better EVDO ( 3G ) connectivity with the Pre when the slider is open?
Jan 14 16:09:51 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: but ali1 and I are still sorting out some issues with that :/. nanoGL is in there too, with a fix i made but i think it still ahs issues
Jan 14 16:09:54 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: sorry :(
Jan 14 16:10:02 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: yeah both are in the repo
Jan 14 16:10:03 <dBsooner> I need a favicon.ico for the WebOS-Patches Web Portal
Jan 14 16:10:18 <dtzWill> egaudet_work: i would try wesGL first, it's our more promising project
Jan 14 16:10:30 <CoolMatty> dBsooner: use the patch icon from preware? :p
Jan 14 16:10:38 <egaudet_work> ok will look at it now
Jan 14 16:10:39 <dtzWill> nanoGL just implements what quake needs to work, that's what it was designed for. wesGL is more complete--and uses shaders too so hopefully less CPU
Jan 14 16:11:11 <dBsooner> who can turn "http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/224038-webos-patches-web-portal-now-online-browse-patches-submit-new-submit-update.html" into a favicon.ico?
Jan 14 16:11:22 <GNUtoo|oeee> hi mickeyl
Jan 14 16:11:36 <GNUtoo|oeee> I saw that a qualcomm binary protocol recipe was commited in oe
Jan 14 16:11:45 <GNUtoo|oeee> that's for the palm pre I bet
Jan 14 16:12:04 <mickeyl> yes, the very basic steps to communicate with the modem. for later usage by fsogsmd
Jan 14 16:12:32 <GNUtoo|oeee> ok so that
Jan 14 16:12:38 <GNUtoo|oeee> s far from complete
Jan 14 16:13:14 <no1lefty> Is there anyone currently working on an application/patch to save bookmarks in the launcher? This would be a great enhancement
Jan 14 16:13:37 <Sonic-NKT> that is allready possible
Jan 14 16:13:47 <zsoc> dtzWill: ok this is super complicated (even tho the guys that did gpsp blogged a lot about it). not sure how feasable it is
Jan 14 16:13:53 <mickeyl> yes, very far
Jan 14 16:14:14 <mickeyl> the modem protocol is an evil lump of autogenerated stuff
Jan 14 16:14:20 <mickeyl> which we have to reverse engineer :/
Jan 14 16:14:35 <mickeyl> every anti vendor port has its own showstoppers for FOSS
Jan 14 16:14:36 <mickeyl> *sigh*
Jan 14 16:14:42 <no1lefty> oh sorry, is there a forum post that talks about it?
Jan 14 16:15:07 <zsoc> mickeyl: hey, we both have +'s and I don't think we've met? I'm embaressed :>
Jan 14 16:15:23 <dBsooner> nm. I did it.
Jan 14 16:15:30 <mickeyl> zsoc: hehe, hi
Jan 14 16:15:56 <mickeyl> zsoc: i'm not really following this channel closely enough yet, as my work on webos is kind of the anti-christ's work
Jan 14 16:16:34 <zsoc> mickeyl: hi :) I'm not sure what that means... you doin hardware stuff for palm?
Jan 14 16:17:11 <dtzWill> zsoc: yeah it won't be easy. but if it was easy it wouldn't be fun :D ;)
Jan 14 16:17:22 <mickeyl> zsoc: no, i want to get rid of 50% of the system, substituting with our own middleware
Jan 14 16:18:01 <zsoc> mickeyl: interesting... er.. you mean software right? you're not ripping the hardware out?
Jan 14 16:18:03 <destinal> mickeyl: you know a lot of us would be interested.   many of us are as interested in the hardware and doing other things with it as well as (or more than) webos
Jan 14 16:18:10 <UZHans> lmorchard: are you here?
Jan 14 16:18:11 <destinal> despite the name
Jan 14 16:18:28 <doohan> zsoc, he said middleware
Jan 14 16:18:30 <CoolMatty> dBsooner: I got one for you
Jan 14 16:18:31 <doohan> not hardware
Jan 14 16:19:00 <dBsooner> CoolMatty: I can't get the one I made to work.. http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/favicon.ico
Jan 14 16:19:02 <zsoc> doohan: I don't like to assume, there are many 'technical' words and not everyone uses them in the same manner.
Jan 14 16:19:08 <doohan> True :)
Jan 14 16:19:16 <destinal> zsoc: they want to keep a linux kernel and build a whole other (and probably more standard linux) distribution on top of it
Jan 14 16:19:23 <mickeyl> destinal: right. and i'm really looking forward to get you guys on board, but i'm afraid there's nothing i can do to movitate anyone to help unless i can show a phonecall with FOSS
Jan 14 16:19:26 <destinal> and have it work as a phone as well
Jan 14 16:19:28 <zsoc> destinal: interesting
Jan 14 16:19:41 <mickeyl> and this unfortunately proves being much more of a hurdle than we all thought when we started working on the pre
Jan 14 16:19:56 <zsoc> mickeyl: who is 'we'? :)
Jan 14 16:20:12 <mickeyl> freesmartphone.org team, some openmoko guys / some SHR guys
Jan 14 16:20:22 <destinal> mickeyl: the fact that it's not crypto bootlocked or using much in the way of proprietary binary modules means it's a great target platform
Jan 14 16:20:26 <zsoc> ah, awesome. well it's a frickin' sweet ideal.
Jan 14 16:20:37 <CoolMatty> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41063/favicon.ico <-- mine dBsooner
Jan 14 16:20:39 <destinal> that sucks about the modem
Jan 14 16:20:47 <CoolMatty> if you want to use it it's yours :p
Jan 14 16:20:55 <mickeyl> destinal: yes, that's why in our hybris we thought we could do a one-month-to-phonecall challenge... but then we discovered the modem protocol
Jan 14 16:21:15 <mickeyl> once we figured the modem and the audio routing out, i'm sure we can get further very quickly
Jan 14 16:21:21 <mickeyl> but only after then :)
Jan 14 16:21:42 <mickeyl> in the meantime i'm continuing optimizing the middleware for the FreeRunner and several other anti-vendor-ports
Jan 14 16:21:47 <destinal> mickeyl: have you been analyzing the palm binaries as well to determine how webos talks to it?
Jan 14 16:21:54 <zsoc> dtzWill: what's the main gba hurdle? is it alpha blending?
Jan 14 16:22:08 <destinal> I would assume it would make figuring things out quicker
Jan 14 16:22:13 <CoolMatty> destinal: dynarec :p
Jan 14 16:22:20 <CoolMatty> err zsoc
Jan 14 16:22:28 <dtzWill> zsoc: dynarec, yeah i think is the big thing.
Jan 14 16:22:29 <mickeyl> destinal: of course, one of us figured the basic protocol format out. the payload is still completely unknown though
Jan 14 16:22:35 <dtzWill> zsoc: the overlay alpha blending sucks for sure.
Jan 14 16:22:55 <dtzWill> zsoc: i haven't dove into the gba stuff to deep to see if some of that could be improveed
Jan 14 16:22:55 <CoolMatty> I'd rather have more speed before worrying about filtering though
Jan 14 16:23:05 <dtzWill> zsoc: it was only recently that this even ran respectably :)
Jan 14 16:23:31 <destinal> mickeyl: does the pixi have the same baseband?
Jan 14 16:23:46 <mickeyl> destinal: no, completely different as far as i know
Jan 14 16:23:54 <CoolMatty> makes me wonder how those guys on the palmos pulled it off
Jan 14 16:24:00 <CoolMatty> especially LJP
Jan 14 16:24:14 <mickeyl> it looks like the pre plus is using the same though
Jan 14 16:24:24 <destinal> mickeyl: now that you've all bought pre's, pixi may be easier :P
Jan 14 16:24:26 <mickeyl> afaik they only bumped the flash package
Jan 14 16:24:32 <mickeyl> heh, i bet not
Jan 14 16:25:51 <destinal> mickeyl: I hope this starts a trend among smartphone manufacturers, that is using a linux kernel and no cryptographic bootloader
Jan 14 16:26:02 <dtzWill> zsoc: although like you said about multibyte copies i think i'll try for lower hanging fruit than dealing with dynarec xD
Jan 14 16:26:29 <destinal> omap3 is so easy to usb boot things on too
Jan 14 16:26:41 <mickeyl> true
Jan 14 16:26:52 <mickeyl> they have enough places to obfuscate us though
Jan 14 16:27:01 <mickeyl> everything RF and custom ASICs is nightmare
Jan 14 16:27:25 <cryptk> destinal, any luck with terminal?
Jan 14 16:27:33 <cryptk> oh, and do you do wirc?
Jan 14 16:27:53 <cryptk> and if so i have an idea for it
Jan 14 16:27:54 <destinal> cryptk: well, I found that the pointers on allocate and deallocate don't match, which would seem to be very bad
Jan 14 16:27:59 <dBsooner> well the icon is there and I have the link rel in the header..
Jan 14 16:28:09 <destinal> cryptk: I commented out the delete() in deallocate function and fixed the crash
Jan 14 16:28:16 <dBsooner> I guess it's just a matter of FireFox and IE caching the no icon?
Jan 14 16:28:23 <destinal> but unfortunately not deallocating things we're asked to deallocate = memory leak
Jan 14 16:28:23 <cryptk> but it leaves the memory in use...
Jan 14 16:28:32 <dtzWill> zsoc: i wanted to profile it but valgrind isnt' ported and gprof segfaults the code :/. otherwise we're kinda patching blinding and testing empirically :(
Jan 14 16:28:37 <cryptk> so every time you open and close it it stays open
Jan 14 16:28:45 <cryptk> gotcha
Jan 14 16:28:55 <destinal> cryptk: well not really
Jan 14 16:28:55 <cryptk> anyway, destinal, don't you do wIRC?
Jan 14 16:29:15 <destinal> cryptk: nah, I use wirc but PuffTheMagic, egaudet, and oil   are the wirc devs
Jan 14 16:29:16 <cryptk> destinal, I know it doesn't stay open, it just doesn't release all of it's allocated memory
Jan 14 16:29:20 <cryptk> ahh
Jan 14 16:29:26 <cryptk> ok, I will talk to them once I see them onlin
Jan 14 16:29:38 <cryptk> s/onlin/online/
Jan 14 16:29:38 <infobot> cryptk meant: ok, I will talk to them once I see them online
Jan 14 16:29:41 <destinal> all are in the channel now just idline
Jan 14 16:29:46 <destinal> s/ine/ing/
Jan 14 16:29:46 <infobot> destinal meant: all are in the channel now just idling
Jan 14 16:30:11 <CoolMatty> dBsooner: yeah, because I see yours on your site now. I like mine better though :( :p
Jan 14 16:30:19 <cryptk> my idea is to have an option to allow it to continue in the background... so closing the app doesn't disconnect you from the server, you can re-open it later and see what happened while you were away
Jan 14 16:30:31 <cryptk> basically simulate screen + irssi with wirc
Jan 14 16:30:54 <GNUtoo|oeee> btw thanks a lot mickeyl
Jan 14 16:31:04 <zsoc> dtzWill: I'm reading through all the gba arm blog stuff.. alpha blending arm asm seems like the easiest to implement
Jan 14 16:31:16 <cryptk> yeha, but i gotta catch up on my work, I will tell them later... my internet went out for a bit... hard to work on a website when you don't have internet
Jan 14 16:31:20 <mickeyl> GNUtoo|oeee: for what? :)
Jan 14 16:31:24 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: yeah i figure its got some mem leaks
Jan 14 16:31:28 <cryptk> speaking of which... how is freetether coming along, lol
Jan 14 16:31:32 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: its getting an overhaul soon
Jan 14 16:31:44 <cryptk> PuffTheMagic, I wasn't talking about wirc leaks
Jan 14 16:31:46 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: i havent touched that since october when i made it
Jan 14 16:31:50 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: oh?
Jan 14 16:31:55 <cryptk> my idea is to have an option to allow it to continue in the background... so closing the app doesn't disconnect you from the server, you can re-open it later and see what happened while you were away
Jan 14 16:32:09 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: yeah that is/was on the todo list too
Jan 14 16:32:09 <cryptk> so if the front end app closes, the service can stay connected
Jan 14 16:32:13 <cryptk> ahh, cool
Jan 14 16:32:15 <cryptk> thanks
Jan 14 16:32:21 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: prob is that it already is pretty bad on the modem
Jan 14 16:32:29 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: if you really wanted somethign like that maybe a bcn would be better
Jan 14 16:32:30 <PuffTheMagic> but idk
Jan 14 16:32:35 <PuffTheMagic> its def an option
Jan 14 16:33:03 <cryptk> PuffTheMagic, bcn?
Jan 14 16:33:49 <SunFire1985> WARNING: If u are a pre user with unlocked phone, and already install 1.3.5.2 DONT install preware ... if u do it u cant install anything then cuz of Forbidden policies, it just hang the phone and then u cant install anything
Jan 14 16:34:08 <GNUtoo|oeee> btw I'd like to look at pixi's alsa source...but I was told alsa was not in any released sources...
Jan 14 16:34:24 <cryptk> argh...
Jan 14 16:34:35 <cryptk> anyway, PuffTheMagic if you said what bcn was, I missed it
Jan 14 16:34:54 <GNUtoo|oeee> mickeyl, for the infos/responses
Jan 14 16:34:56 <destinal> GNUtoo|oeee: all the pre's alsa stuff is in opensource.palm.com
Jan 14 16:35:06 <destinal> but not necessarily the pixi stuff :(
Jan 14 16:35:26 <GNUtoo|oeee> pixi has msm soc as far as I knwo
Jan 14 16:35:32 <GNUtoo|oeee> that's why I'm interresed
Jan 14 16:35:39 <GNUtoo|oeee> and it runs GNU/Linux
Jan 14 16:35:41 <GNUtoo|oeee> so...
Jan 14 16:36:12 <zsoc> dtzWill: hmm.. there's a direct arm asm port.. but it's only for gpsp, I wonder if there's a reason for that?
Jan 14 16:36:13 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: they are like little servers that connect to IRC and stay connected and then on your client you connect to the bnc and never miss anything
Jan 14 16:36:19 <PuffTheMagic> sorta like irssi proxy
Jan 14 16:37:14 <cryptk> ahh, nice
Jan 14 16:41:06 <PuffTheMagic> cryptk: i 100% am with you that keeping it open would be awesome but i dont think its too pratical for a mobile platform
Jan 14 16:41:40 <PuffTheMagic> and i am still debating about making it use quassle core instead of libircclient
Jan 14 16:41:56 <PuffTheMagic> although i am intimate with libircclient now
Jan 14 16:42:13 <dtzWill> zsoc: you mean the alpha blending the device does right? cuz yeah that could be a HUGE win. iirc that's a big performance hit
Jan 14 16:42:48 <dtzWill> zsoc: it's not clear to me how an emulator recognizes high level things like a blit with alpha? but maybe that's an api that the bios/etc implements in which case that would be awesome
Jan 14 16:43:04 <dtzWill> zsoc: direct arm asm??? link me if you would that sounds very interesting.
Jan 14 16:43:14 <zsoc> dtzWill: I mean I wonder why there's a reason that zodd and team only bothered with gpsp and never implemented the same functionality for vba
Jan 14 16:43:26 <dBsooner> CoolMatty: no, that's yours.
Jan 14 16:43:29 <dBsooner> I renamed mine.
Jan 14 16:43:37 <dBsooner> yours is the 5KB one..
Jan 14 16:43:42 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: time?
Jan 14 16:43:46 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: money?
Jan 14 16:43:50 <zsoc> dtzWill: er.. it's in the gpsp arm src.. arm_emit.h
Jan 14 16:43:52 <dBsooner> http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/favicon.ico
Jan 14 16:44:02 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: I'm hoping it's just that :)
Jan 14 16:44:55 <PuffTheMagic> has anyone tested sdl stuff in the emu yet?
Jan 14 16:45:05 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: yes I have
Jan 14 16:45:12 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: DOOM plays in the emulator
Jan 14 16:45:18 <CoolMatty> dBsooner: lol now I cant get it to show mine, since i had your site up before you switched them
Jan 14 16:46:20 <CoolMatty> there we go, cache refreshed
Jan 14 16:46:26 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: I had to ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb1  and of course there's no OpenGL libs out there
Jan 14 16:46:33 <destinal> but non-gl stuff should work ok
Jan 14 16:46:55 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: why was the symlink needed
Jan 14 16:47:04 <PuffTheMagic> i thought that fb* were dynamicly created
Jan 14 16:47:33 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: well it seems there's only one framebuffer on emulator, not sure if that causes other issues
Jan 14 16:48:21 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: i "thought" there was only 1 fb on my Pre too, until i start and sdl game then there is a second
Jan 14 16:48:34 <PuffTheMagic> and i would think if u had 2 sdl games open there would be 3 fb's
Jan 14 16:48:37 <destinal> ah.  must be a kernel difference perhaps?
Jan 14 16:48:48 <PuffTheMagic> idk
Jan 14 16:48:55 <PuffTheMagic> when i do my screencaps
Jan 14 16:48:59 <PuffTheMagic> Luna is always on fb0
Jan 14 16:49:10 <PuffTheMagic> and if im in a game then i use fb1 to get the screen
Jan 14 16:49:17 <destinal> well that explains why I get some flicker in doom
Jan 14 16:49:25 <destinal> looks like they *can* share fb0 but it may not be ideal
Jan 14 16:49:34 <PuffTheMagic> yeah dev not ideal
Jan 14 16:49:52 <PuffTheMagic> hmm i seem to have 2 fb's right now
Jan 14 16:49:55 <PuffTheMagic> and no games running
Jan 14 16:50:20 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: dont do a symlink
Jan 14 16:50:27 <PuffTheMagic> use mknod
Jan 14 16:50:41 <PuffTheMagic> they have different minor numbers
Jan 14 16:50:41 <PuffTheMagic> crw-rw----    1 root     video     29,   0 Jan  5 06:33 /dev/fb0
Jan 14 16:50:41 <PuffTheMagic> crw-rw----    1 root     video     29,   1 Jan  5 06:33 /dev/fb1
Jan 14 16:50:46 <destinal> ah
Jan 14 16:50:50 <destinal> lemme try
Jan 14 16:53:57 <dtzWill> hey now that experts are all talkative, does anyone have a thought on how to take an opengl screenshot? :)
Jan 14 16:54:09 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: yeah
Jan 14 16:54:11 <dtzWill> (6 hours ago wasn't so good a time to ask :))
Jan 14 16:54:18 <CoolMatty> dtzWill: FRAPS! lawl
Jan 14 16:54:26 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: link me your port ;)
Jan 14 16:54:47 <CoolMatty> you can read compiled exe's, right? :p
Jan 14 16:55:00 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: PuffTheMagic ported wine yesterday, that should do it
Jan 14 16:55:07 <CoolMatty> haha
Jan 14 16:55:08 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: ...right? (don't let me down here and embarress me)
Jan 14 16:55:11 <CoolMatty> what a glorious mess that'd be
Jan 14 16:55:11 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 14 16:55:16 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: actually
Jan 14 16:55:32 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: the word "actually" was not what i expected :)
Jan 14 16:55:38 <PuffTheMagic> qemu with dos would probably be baster than dosbox
Jan 14 16:55:45 <PuffTheMagic> s/baster/faster/
Jan 14 16:55:45 <infobot> PuffTheMagic meant: qemu with dos would probably be faster than dosbox
Jan 14 16:55:47 <dtzWill> rofl
Jan 14 16:55:55 <CoolMatty> porting wine to a non-x86 platform, running a program most definitely not intended to be running under wine (direct GPU access to framebuffer and such)
Jan 14 16:55:59 <dtzWill> why do you think that? i don't really know how dosbox works
Jan 14 16:56:00 <CoolMatty> I'm sure it'd do great!
Jan 14 16:56:14 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: yep, get cracking. the community is counting on you.
Jan 14 16:56:19 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: all so we can take screenshots.
Jan 14 16:56:30 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: nope
Jan 14 16:56:39 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: or we could just get a freaking camera, fake it, and rip our hair out.  same end effect.
Jan 14 16:56:44 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: 29, 0 works (to share fb0)
Jan 14 16:56:50 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: 29,1 = no dice
Jan 14 16:56:55 <CoolMatty> I should shoop some artwork of "fraps" running on the Pre using "wine" for an april fools prank
Jan 14 16:56:57 <destinal> I'm thinking no kernel support
Jan 14 16:57:03 <dtzWill> you guys mknod'ing to fake the fb in the emu?
Jan 14 16:57:05 <PuffTheMagic> possibly
Jan 14 16:57:20 <dtzWill> interesting
Jan 14 16:57:37 <tlp> zsoc: It was the Preware feed. Broken, and I see it's been removed in the last update
Jan 14 16:57:46 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: got something for u
Jan 14 16:57:48 <destinal> dtzWill: if you point /dev/fb1 at fb0 it works with a little flicker (sharing the framebuffer with luna I think)
Jan 14 16:57:49 <tlp> I guess it was caused by leftover cruft from ancient install methods
Jan 14 16:57:58 <zsoc> tlp: ah must be
Jan 14 16:58:07 <tlp> any plans to make Preware installable via Palm's open distribution thingie?
Jan 14 16:58:10 <destinal> dtzWill: but there's no hardware behind fb1 apparently (it can't open even if node exists)
Jan 14 16:58:12 <tlp> or is it possible?
Jan 14 16:58:14 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: wget http://omploader.org/vMzk1Nw -O fbcat
Jan 14 16:58:27 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: is that an improved fbcat?
Jan 14 16:58:28 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: fbcat /dev/fb1 > screenshot.ppm
Jan 14 16:58:40 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: it supports color
Jan 14 16:58:47 <PuffTheMagic> which fbgrab does not
Jan 14 16:58:52 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: b/c that works for SDL but not opengl, but mad props for porting that in the first place (i recall it was you, right?)
Jan 14 16:58:56 <dtzWill> ooo nice.
Jan 14 16:59:01 <PuffTheMagic> ummm
Jan 14 16:59:07 <PuffTheMagic> why wouldnt it work for GL
Jan 14 16:59:10 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: or at least it didn't during VBA. i honestly don't know why :/.
Jan 14 16:59:16 <PuffTheMagic> its all on the fb
Jan 14 16:59:21 <PuffTheMagic> it "should work"
Jan 14 16:59:24 <PuffTheMagic> let me see with doom
Jan 14 16:59:46 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: doom doesn't use gl
Jan 14 16:59:54 <destinal> dtzWill: is openGL-es a proper subset of opengl?  so if we put the right opengl libs on the emu and if virtualbox supports openGL tricks (which I hear it does)  we may actually be able to run GL apps on the emulator
Jan 14 17:00:00 <PuffTheMagic> oh yeah
Jan 14 17:00:05 <PuffTheMagic> well what does that i can test?
Jan 14 17:00:11 <PuffTheMagic> that is in preware
Jan 14 17:00:17 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: vba :). testing feed.
Jan 14 17:00:30 <PuffTheMagic> but i need a rom damn
Jan 14 17:00:49 <destinal> dtzWill: do you think so?
Jan 14 17:01:00 * Alyazir bangs his head against a wall
Jan 14 17:01:00 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: http://brian.aljex.com/shared/MoonPatrol_SpyHunter.gbc  someone posted it here earlier :P
Jan 14 17:01:08 <CoolMatty> omg warez
Jan 14 17:01:09 <PuffTheMagic> i know where to get roms
Jan 14 17:01:09 <CoolMatty> :p
Jan 14 17:01:11 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: you know you wanna play gb anyway
Jan 14 17:01:17 <CoolMatty> (tetris is the superior rom)
Jan 14 17:01:26 <PuffTheMagic> hell no
Jan 14 17:01:28 <PuffTheMagic> 1943
Jan 14 17:01:29 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: hahah i'm sure you do sorry.
Jan 14 17:01:47 <destinal> let's not post rom links.  Nintendo already sued nokia
Jan 14 17:01:49 <PuffTheMagic> does this play Color gmes?
Jan 14 17:01:50 <dtzWill> destinal: interesting idea. i don't remember off the top of my head to be honest, i've spent so much time going the /other/ way/
Jan 14 17:02:02 <CoolMatty> PuffTheMagic: it plays GBA and you're asking if it can do GBC?
Jan 14 17:02:02 <CoolMatty> really?
Jan 14 17:02:13 <CoolMatty> (yes of course it can)
Jan 14 17:02:14 <PuffTheMagic> i didnt know it plays GBA
Jan 14 17:02:20 <CoolMatty> *facepalm*
Jan 14 17:02:22 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: gb/gbc/gba, although gba is slow (with sound) and 50-90% without sound
Jan 14 17:02:44 <CoolMatty> visualboyadvance, with the GBA as the icon never tipped you off? :D
Jan 14 17:02:56 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: gba emulation is ENTIRELY different code than gb/gbc lol. it actually has a if (gb/gc) then emulategbgbc() else emulategba() kinda branch
Jan 14 17:03:09 <CoolMatty> yes I know
Jan 14 17:03:25 <dtzWill> destinal: i think that gles 1 is a complete subset of gl 1, or w/e the equiv it's base off of
Jan 14 17:03:38 <CoolMatty> GBA actually had a GBC chip in it to play GBC/GB games in it originally, so that's actually a rather faithful way to emulate the GBA
Jan 14 17:03:41 <dtzWill> destinal: actually gles 2 might be a proper subset too. i have the relative specs somewhere around here :)
Jan 14 17:03:49 <PuffTheMagic> where does it look for roms?
Jan 14 17:03:56 <CoolMatty> *facepalm* lol
Jan 14 17:03:56 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: run it it'll tell you :P
Jan 14 17:04:07 <PuffTheMagic> hmm it dont run
Jan 14 17:04:11 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: /media/internal/vba/roms I just spent time on that screen and wanna show people
Jan 14 17:04:16 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: it doesn't?? o_O.
Jan 14 17:04:20 <PuffTheMagic> nope
Jan 14 17:04:50 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: others installed it and did, that's very strange. a)sorry and b)if you get a second can you run it from terminal and tell me wtf is going on?
Jan 14 17:04:58 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: does upstart say it's starting it but nothing happens?
Jan 14 17:05:21 <PuffTheMagic> i see the upstart message
Jan 14 17:05:23 <PuffTheMagic> but then it dont run
Jan 14 17:05:57 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: i can't imagine why it would work for others and not you :/. well if you get a chance i'd love whatever output it gives, that's unfortunate.
Jan 14 17:06:20 <CoolMatty> you didnt have the old vba installed did you?
Jan 14 17:06:21 <PuffTheMagic> it starts if i run it from CLI
Jan 14 17:06:49 <PuffTheMagic> no sound?
Jan 14 17:06:50 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: okay then i might've messed up the upstart, idk. rwhitby was gonna look but I don't think he had time. although REALLY it works for me, etc, and i can't imagine why that would be
Jan 14 17:06:57 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: yes there's sound. man you got a bugged build or something.
Jan 14 17:07:01 <PuffTheMagic> ahh ther it is
Jan 14 17:07:32 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: gba is slow though, and sound you might wanna turn off b/c a)slow sound is super annoying b)sound emulation takes cpu c)sound makes pulseuadio take 15% cpu b/c pulse is just that awesome
Jan 14 17:07:36 <destinal> dtzWill: why do you want upstart?
Jan 14 17:07:43 <destinal> dtzWill: just type:game
Jan 14 17:07:46 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: but afaict gb/gbc works wonderfully
Jan 14 17:08:02 <dtzWill> destinal: b/c i don't/dind't know how to do that, frankly :/.
Jan 14 17:08:28 <dtzWill> destinal: is there a wiki on this somewhere? i haven't been part of looking into that stuff, sorry
Jan 14 17:08:36 <destinal> dtzWill: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Building_DOOM_with_scratchbox2
Jan 14 17:08:40 <PuffTheMagic> wtf is A and B?
Jan 14 17:08:42 <dtzWill> destinal: wonderful ty
Jan 14 17:08:44 <destinal> dtzWill: the packaging is on the bottom
Jan 14 17:08:49 <CoolMatty> k and l, PuffTheMagic
Jan 14 17:09:01 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: haha. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:VBA#Controls
Jan 14 17:09:03 <CoolMatty> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:VBA#Controls  <-- PuffTheMagic
Jan 14 17:09:07 <CoolMatty> JYNX!
Jan 14 17:09:09 <CoolMatty> >.>
Jan 14 17:09:10 <destinal> it's basically just   type:  game    and  main:  whateverbinary
Jan 14 17:09:11 <dtzWill> destinal: great, thanks
Jan 14 17:09:16 <destinal> very simple
Jan 14 17:09:29 <destinal> but I came up with a packaging script to avoid having to package by hand
Jan 14 17:09:36 <dtzWill> destinal: haha yeah you made it sound easy but you know *where* and other small details. i'm sure the wiki got it, tyvm
Jan 14 17:09:39 <dtzWill> destinal: oh nice
Jan 14 17:10:14 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: yeah just get a black screen
Jan 14 17:10:22 <PuffTheMagic> sorta like the issue with the old fbcat/fbgrab
Jan 14 17:10:33 <dtzWill> haha i have to go reinstall the sdk now, whoopsy
Jan 14 17:10:44 <UZHans> anyone know of an FTP client for webos?
Jan 14 17:10:49 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: it does run really nice great work
Jan 14 17:10:56 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: now on to evas/ecore :D
Jan 14 17:11:11 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: yeah that's what i got. thanks for checking. although your issues concern me since no one selse reports them :(. could you try reinstalling or something? i.. :(.
Jan 14 17:11:26 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: haha :D. that would be excellent. i sure would've liked evas or something for the rom selector
Jan 14 17:11:31 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: not today... i am moving tomorrow... got more packing to do
Jan 14 17:11:56 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: gotcha. i actually have a lot of stuff to do as well, i'm just pushing it off.... >_>
Jan 14 17:12:03 <dtzWill> i should probably do that :)
Jan 14 17:12:06 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: maybe we could do a rom selector in mojo so that it launches vba with the game loaded
Jan 14 17:12:07 <PuffTheMagic> idk
Jan 14 17:12:09 <PuffTheMagic> just an idea
Jan 14 17:12:12 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: glad you like it, hf packing
Jan 14 17:12:19 <dtzWill> yep i'll at least take a look, who knows
Jan 14 17:12:23 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: i have a feeling  we are gonna be working on a lot together
Jan 14 17:12:24 <PuffTheMagic> ;)
Jan 14 17:12:31 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: same :):).
Jan 14 17:12:35 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: I think a standard sdl launcher would be easier
Jan 14 17:12:51 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: possibly
Jan 14 17:12:56 <dtzWill> destinal: standard sdl launcher?
Jan 14 17:12:59 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: otherwise we have to go back to upstart and pass arguments maybe through a database
Jan 14 17:13:29 <destinal> dtzWill: I mean for the various games we make a universal launcher that lets you say, select a file and it becomes a parameter to the launch
Jan 14 17:13:33 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: echo "<rom name>" > /tmp/.vba
Jan 14 17:13:42 <PuffTheMagic> vba `cat /tmp/.vba`
Jan 14 17:13:48 <PuffTheMagic> idk
Jan 14 17:13:50 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: right but how from mojo
Jan 14 17:13:55 <dtzWill> destinal: ah gotcha.
Jan 14 17:13:59 <CoolMatty> yeah, none of the official games on palmappstore use mojo
Jan 14 17:14:01 <dtzWill> destinal: use my rom selector :P
Jan 14 17:14:02 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: we cant write files?
Jan 14 17:14:27 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: can we write files in mojo?  not sure
Jan 14 17:14:38 <CoolMatty> PuffTheMagic: not in mojo officially, only to media/internal
Jan 14 17:14:50 <destinal> oh, well that would work
Jan 14 17:14:51 <dtzWill> CoolMatty: that should be good enough
Jan 14 17:14:58 <dtzWill> /media/internal/vba/rom_param
Jan 14 17:14:58 <dtzWill> etc
Jan 14 17:15:10 <dtzWill> not the *best* but hella better than hitting a db, lite or otherwise
Jan 14 17:15:22 <destinal> but it means relying on upstart launch rather than the simple way
Jan 14 17:15:26 <destinal> is ok though
Jan 14 17:15:30 <CoolMatty> hey I actually knew something useful, yay >.>
Jan 14 17:16:52 <Alyazir> does someone now the download directory of webos doctor when downloading via palm.com / java in windows vista?
Jan 14 17:17:31 <destinal> Alyazir: that's a JNLP (java web start) thing, not sure where sun does that
Jan 14 17:17:40 <destinal> Alyazir: I recommend you download a jar normally
Jan 14 17:17:41 <Alyazir> exactly
Jan 14 17:18:15 <destinal> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Vers\ions
Jan 14 17:18:23 <destinal> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions
Jan 14 17:19:05 <dtzWill> alright it's official i'm not writing another line of code until i beat my zelda gbc roms :P
Jan 14 17:19:25 <AnOutsider> haha
Jan 14 17:19:26 <destinal> dtzWill: agh, because of emu, dtzWill was stolen
Jan 14 17:19:28 <destinal> :P
Jan 14 17:27:15 <cryptk> so if someone wants to pay me to make a site for their World of Warcraft guild... could I write off my WoW account as a business expense?
Jan 14 17:28:09 <AnOutsider> bit off topic, but I don't believe so
Jan 14 17:28:34 <destinal> if you can support it, I would imagine so, but yeah probably ##wowaddicts
Jan 14 17:28:36 <CoolMatty> cryptk: you'd have to document all the time you used WoW for business
Jan 14 17:28:37 <destinal> :P
Jan 14 17:28:50 <destinal> not webos related
Jan 14 17:29:00 <CoolMatty> maybe he's planning on porting wow >.>
Jan 14 17:29:46 <cryptk> CoolMatty, it would be research to gather in the look and feel of WoW... I can rack up some serious hours...
Jan 14 17:29:47 <CoolMatty> I can't imagine what would happen if blizzard ported wow to the iphone and such
Jan 14 17:30:10 <cryptk> I disagree, this is totally WebOS related
Jan 14 17:30:19 <CoolMatty> cryptk: it'd have to be 100% of your usage of the account, otherwise you have to deduct all time you were using it for personal reasons
Jan 14 17:30:26 <CoolMatty> like you would for gas in your car
Jan 14 17:30:39 <cryptk> playing wow is research for building a website... websites are built with HTML, JavaScript and CSS... does that sound familiar?
Jan 14 17:31:02 <CoolMatty> of course one would argue that imitating the wow website would be much easier and less expensive :p
Jan 14 17:31:07 <cryptk> soooo... totally WebOS related, lol.... my logic is undeniable
Jan 14 17:31:20 <cryptk> haha
Jan 14 17:31:49 <CoolMatty> #discussingwhethertopicisontopic this convo is offtopic
Jan 14 17:35:30 <psykoz> you can't add custom feeds in preware anymore through the UI ?
Jan 14 17:39:28 * dtzWill|away beat the first dungeon in oracle of ages :D haha
Jan 14 17:39:31 <hawiwo> Hi, i have a Install error on every installation attempt with preware since i updated to webos 1.3.5.2 (european version) here the exact error descr. ->http://webos.pastebin.com/m26844e8c is there a solution for it?
Jan 14 17:39:51 <AnOutsider> psykoz: last time I checked, you couldn't ever. The menu was there but grayed out
Jan 14 17:40:03 <hawiwo> on all software packages
Jan 14 17:44:55 <Alyazir> i need help - again :/
Jan 14 17:45:26 <Alyazir> my webos doctor constantly fails
Jan 14 17:46:48 <Alyazir> someone able and willing to help me?
Jan 14 17:47:45 <Alyazir> It tells me "Phone disconnected" and aborts
Jan 14 17:47:58 <Alyazir> at 0%
Jan 14 17:48:10 <psykoz> alyazir, have you tried bootie mode yet?
Jan 14 17:48:21 <AnOutsider> well, I've no idea what the problem is, but thought I'd say something anyway so you don't feel ignored haha
Jan 14 17:48:29 <psykoz> turn pre off, hold volume up key + turn pre on, will popup with a USB logo
Jan 14 17:48:32 <Alyazir> psykoz: no
Jan 14 17:48:34 <psykoz> then plugin and webos doctor
Jan 14 17:49:30 <Alyazir> ok
Jan 14 17:50:07 <Alyazir> i get the usb logo after starting webos doctor though
Jan 14 17:50:15 <psykoz> so
Jan 14 17:50:21 <psykoz> just do bootie mode, trust me ;)
Jan 14 17:50:50 <Alyazir> no idea - just describing what happens ;)
Jan 14 17:51:24 <destinal> psykoz: doctor reboots a pre into bootie recovery mode also and then continues the process, theoretically it's the same either way
Jan 14 17:51:41 <psykoz> oh
Jan 14 17:51:45 <destinal> psykoz: though it wouldn't hurt to try forcing recovery mode and doctoring from there
Jan 14 17:51:49 <psykoz> I've had the 0% disconnect numerous times
Jan 14 17:51:53 <destinal> one more thing to try that isn't that hard
Jan 14 17:51:55 <psykoz> and had to do forced bootie mode
Jan 14 17:52:01 <Alyazir> i'll give it a try
Jan 14 17:52:29 <Alyazir> there shouldn't be a palm logo, i guess?
Jan 14 17:53:06 <psykoz> no, hold volume up key+press power, should go straight to USB logo and such
Jan 14 17:54:04 <Alyazir> ah, it has to be plugged in for that?
Jan 14 17:55:59 <psykoz> maybe, I can't remember exact details
Jan 14 17:56:45 <destinal> Alyazir: I usually power it off then hold volume up and plug in the cable
Jan 14 17:59:35 <Alyazir> now next is still grayed out
Jan 14 17:59:56 <Alyazir> there is a little "annoy-me-dwarf" sitting somewhere here...
Jan 14 18:00:04 <destinal> Alyazir: what operating system?
Jan 14 18:00:06 <dBsooner> chuqui: ping!
Jan 14 18:00:15 <Alyazir> vista ultimate 32bit
Jan 14 18:00:50 <destinal> Alyazir: can you confirm there is no SDK emulator running?
Jan 14 18:01:22 <Alyazir> installed but not running
Jan 14 18:01:29 <chuqui> (yawn... stretch....) someone need me? I was.. um.. working.
Jan 14 18:02:14 <dBsooner> chuqui: Thank's for the mention in your blog post!
Jan 14 18:02:24 <dBsooner> chuqui: Would you mind making a slight correction?
Jan 14 18:02:27 <chuqui> my pleasure!
Jan 14 18:02:59 <Alyazir> any other suggestions?
Jan 14 18:03:02 <dBsooner> Daniel Beames is my name.. Sooner is what I am. :) (Oklahoma Sooners). danielBeamessooner
Jan 14 18:03:03 <dBsooner> ;)
Jan 14 18:03:12 <jacques> :-)
Jan 14 18:03:24 <chuqui> oh... oops.
Jan 14 18:03:33 <dBsooner> But I know my name is misleading. I am just ecstatic we (WebOS-Internals) got the shout out!
Jan 14 18:05:11 <chuqui> fixed
Jan 14 18:05:47 <dBsooner> Thank you chuqui! I really do appreciate it.
Jan 14 18:05:56 <dBsooner> And I know the rest of WebOS-Internals does as well.
Jan 14 18:06:04 <chuqui> my pleasure.
Jan 14 18:06:26 <Pre200> I am offering my wife as payment for the 1st person to write a full backup utility.... (jason has first dibs)
Jan 14 18:07:00 <psykoz> your wife probably isn't hot enough for a full backup utility ;)
Jan 14 18:07:04 <dBsooner> Pre200: 1st) what does your wife look like? 2nd) is she down with that?
Jan 14 18:07:26 <Alyazir> and 3) do you have a backup wife? ;)
Jan 14 18:07:28 <WillJitsu> does anyone use the "Add Roam Control to Prefs" patch? I just installed it and it did not work. it is listed as updated for 1.3.5 though.
Jan 14 18:08:17 <dBsooner> WillJitsu: I don't know. I just process the patches. :)
Jan 14 18:08:32 <dBsooner> I don't test the functionality of them. Do they Apply? 'Yes'. Approved!
Jan 14 18:08:35 <destinal> Alyazir: try going into the services control panel and stop the Palm Novacom service
Jan 14 18:08:41 <destinal> and restart it
Jan 14 18:08:48 <Pre200> She doesnt know yet,  and she is worth of a backup utility.... I can always find a backup wife,  but not a full backup utility
Jan 14 18:09:04 <destinal> then plug in the pre (still in usb recovery mode)  and see if next shows up
Jan 14 18:09:19 <dBsooner> Pre200: You are wise in your ways. And I have one.. so I win.
Jan 14 18:09:52 <Pre200> 5"3 and 104lbs... She is Fed-X'able
Jan 14 18:09:59 <WillJitsu> dBsooner: is there a place to report a problem with a particular patch?
Jan 14 18:10:07 <dBsooner> Pre200: My Exchange server = for all my contacts, calendar, email, notes, etc. Palm backup for all my pics, apps, etc.
Jan 14 18:10:13 <destinal> Pre200: what should this mystical backup utility back up?
Jan 14 18:10:20 <dBsooner> WillJitsu: Sure, the PC.net thread for the patch.
Jan 14 18:10:28 <dBsooner> WillJitsu: or directly to the maintainer
Jan 14 18:10:57 <dBsooner> chuqui: *cough* early access 1.4 *cough*
Jan 14 18:11:18 <WillJitsu> dBsooner: great. thanks!
Jan 14 18:11:22 <chuqui> are you in the program now? If not, send me email, I'll get the NDA out to you.
Jan 14 18:11:41 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill|away: VBA can do screenshots if you press (.) <= period.... is that broken now with GL?
Jan 14 18:12:02 <Pre200> Just like the utilities that the treo had...  Full restore of a dead device,  or if I swap devices... I loved being able to do a full image to a sd card,  wipe thje phone get a new one and do a full restore
Jan 14 18:12:03 * egaudet_work got first email, responded with forum username but never got anything else after :(
Jan 14 18:12:18 <dBsooner> chuqui: I'm in it.
Jan 14 18:12:26 <dBsooner> chuqui: I just haven't looked around in a while.
Jan 14 18:13:06 <Alyazir> destinal: worked - thank you
Jan 14 18:13:07 <chuqui> okay. so you need do nothing.
Jan 14 18:13:10 <dBsooner> yeah, chuqui, egaudet_work needs access.. He responded with his forum username to the first email, but never got the "accepted and where to go" email.
Jan 14 18:13:28 <Pre200> I will even pay for next day air shipping on her..  Low maintence and not much baggage
Jan 14 18:13:33 <PuffTheMagic> i cant find out how to get back into the forum
Jan 14 18:13:36 <destinal> Alyazir: cool, you're welcome
Jan 14 18:13:42 <chuqui> have him email me with a ping and I'll get it going this time.
Jan 14 18:14:05 <dBsooner> chuqui: Speaking of forum username's... Did you ever figure out how to change email address/username on the developer forums?
Jan 14 18:14:10 <PuffTheMagic> is the forum still up?
Jan 14 18:14:16 * dBsooner wants "decibel" changed to "dBsooner"
Jan 14 18:15:30 <chuqui> I've asked the product manager of the portal how they want to handle that stuff since it needs manual intervention. haven't heard back. will go noodge.
Jan 14 18:15:42 <Pre200> Ok,  if noone wants a free wife (wow what a oxymoron)  how bout $100 cash??
Jan 14 18:16:29 <PuffTheMagic> chuqui: who's idea was it to move the forums link off the main developer page
Jan 14 18:17:08 <Mousey> why is the load on my phone hovering between 4-5 with no apps open after two fresh reboots?
Jan 14 18:18:17 <chuqui> not me
Jan 14 18:18:18 <Mousey> hmm, also phone offline
Jan 14 18:18:52 <dBsooner> chuqui: yeah.. noodge'ing would be cool. Otherwise I will just create a new login and you can delink my old one from the NDA stuff and link my new one to it.
Jan 14 18:19:01 <Mousey> hmm, toggling phone radio , it does nothing!
Jan 14 18:19:10 <Alyazir> Now don't get stuck at 52%, evil little annoy-o-doctor
Jan 14 18:19:46 <chuqui> but you can't use your current email for that... but otherwise, we can do that.
Jan 14 18:20:14 <Mousey> WEIRDNESS
Jan 14 18:21:35 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: probably not but it won't show the scaled/screen version. probably just writes the texture out.
Jan 14 18:21:44 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: i've never looked at the output just bound it :):)
Jan 14 18:21:47 <dBsooner> chuqui: hmm.. pm.
Jan 14 18:22:02 <dtzWill|away> btw someone port a good mpd client please :D
Jan 14 18:22:02 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill|away: might have to modify the screenshot method
Jan 14 18:22:10 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 14 18:22:14 <Mousey> root@palm-webos-device:/# ls /var/log/rdxd/pending/ | wc -l
Jan 14 18:22:14 <Mousey> 101
Jan 14 18:22:14 <PuffTheMagic> id rather just make one
Jan 14 18:22:16 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: yeah, idk. screenshot support wasn't high on my list
Jan 14 18:22:16 <Mousey> that can't be good
Jan 14 18:22:20 <PuffTheMagic> i have experience making mpd and xmm2 clients
Jan 14 18:22:23 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: haha. well okay that's good too.
Jan 14 18:22:27 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: oh well there you have it
Jan 14 18:22:30 <PuffTheMagic> i made a touchscreen interface using xmms2 and mpd for my car computer
Jan 14 18:22:38 <PuffTheMagic> well a few versions
Jan 14 18:22:57 <PuffTheMagic> we could definately make one
Jan 14 18:23:08 <PuffTheMagic> but what would that gain over using the builtin media player
Jan 14 18:23:17 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: hahaha car computer that's /awesome/
Jan 14 18:23:27 <PuffTheMagic> yeah my car runs gentoo :D
Jan 14 18:23:27 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: it gains me controlling it remotely
Jan 14 18:23:28 <PuffTheMagic> did
Jan 14 18:23:31 <PuffTheMagic> my last car
Jan 14 18:23:37 <PuffTheMagic> im not hacking the dash of my new car
Jan 14 18:23:39 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: to my computer speakers, or stereo, or w/e
Jan 14 18:23:55 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: playing music my pre doesn't have
Jan 14 18:24:05 <PuffTheMagic> ohhhhhhhhh
Jan 14 18:24:06 <PuffTheMagic> wait
Jan 14 18:24:15 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: etc. like right now i'm walking around my house with sound.. i'd love to have to be able to control it, etc.
Jan 14 18:24:21 <PuffTheMagic> you just want the client
Jan 14 18:24:29 <PuffTheMagic> that access a remote server
Jan 14 18:24:33 <dtzWill|away> yeah, the daemon's probably completely portable
Jan 14 18:24:33 <PuffTheMagic> not a local server on your pre
Jan 14 18:24:50 <dtzWill|away> pulseaudio, etc. i'd be surprised...although that could be fun too haha
Jan 14 18:24:55 <PuffTheMagic> yeah of course it was i just didnt think about using your pre as a "remote"
Jan 14 18:25:03 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill|away: we dont have to use pulse
Jan 14 18:25:07 <PuffTheMagic> we can use alsa too
Jan 14 18:25:12 <PuffTheMagic> directly
Jan 14 18:25:30 <Mousey> PuffTheMagic: you can do that with pulseaudio
Jan 14 18:25:35 <Mousey> no hacking required
Jan 14 18:25:38 <PuffTheMagic> do what?
Jan 14 18:25:45 <PuffTheMagic> who said hacking?
Jan 14 18:25:52 <Mousey> export the sound over the network
Jan 14 18:25:57 <Mousey> to or from the phone
Jan 14 18:26:06 <PuffTheMagic> i hate pulse
Jan 14 18:26:08 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: except the mute switch uses pulse and doesn't update the alsa mixer, right?
Jan 14 18:26:20 <Mousey> just because pulse is horrid, doesn't mean it's not flexible
Jan 14 18:26:21 <PuffTheMagic> mute switch?
Jan 14 18:26:27 <PuffTheMagic> the toggle at the top?
Jan 14 18:26:31 <destinal> PuffTheMagic:yeah
Jan 14 18:26:38 <PuffTheMagic> that generate a event on /dev/input? if i remember correctly
Jan 14 18:26:42 <dtzWill|away> PuffTheMagic: we can do alsa? oh thank god haha
Jan 14 18:27:22 <destinal> sure you can read it via hidd too I think but doesn't it seem kind of a hack when there's a built-in framework that already supports it
Jan 14 18:27:53 <Mousey> 2010-01-14T18:27:30.251983Z [1073] palm-webos-device user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: Error in callmap.c:1904
Jan 14 18:27:54 <Mousey> 2010-01-14T18:27:30.252868Z [1073] palm-webos-device user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: Could not find call 20297 to cancel.
Jan 14 18:27:56 <Mousey> weird
Jan 14 18:28:43 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: I guess it's not *that* bad to do alsa + detecting mute.   does the volume control use the alsa mixer at least?
Jan 14 18:28:47 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: not really a hack when we dont have headers
Jan 14 18:29:13 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: idk, alsamixer (the app) isnt on the pre
Jan 14 18:29:32 <PuffTheMagic> everything i've done with alsa is direct library stuff
Jan 14 18:29:55 <mdklein> my pre has amixer on it?
Jan 14 18:30:05 <destinal> should be interesting to confirm whether your direct alsa calls get controlled by the volume control on the side
Jan 14 18:30:23 <PuffTheMagic> amixer is not alsamixer
Jan 14 18:30:45 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: pulse is making alsa calls so i would think so
Jan 14 18:31:23 <PuffTheMagic> let me build alsamixer real quick and see what happens
Jan 14 18:31:33 <PuffTheMagic> is alsa-lib on the pre already?
Jan 14 18:31:43 <PuffTheMagic> yeah looks like it
Jan 14 18:31:54 <Mousey> 2010-01-14T18:31:32.552398Z [1316] palm-webos-device kern.info kernel: [ 1316.120000] minicore_launch: CRASH! java(14239) received 11. Waiting up to 60s for minicore to attach.
Jan 14 18:31:55 <Mousey> great
Jan 14 18:32:01 <mdklein> amixer is a command-line program for controlling the mixer in the ALSA soundcard driver
Jan 14 18:33:01 <PuffTheMagic> i know what it is... im just saying amixer != alsamixer
Jan 14 18:34:20 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: does the pre have a light sensor?
Jan 14 18:34:27 <mdklein> I missed the first half of the conversation I guess, not sure why you'd need alsamixer app specifically
Jan 14 18:34:34 <Mousey> PuffTheMagic: i think it does
Jan 14 18:34:46 <PuffTheMagic> cause ther eis a /dev/input/light0
Jan 14 18:36:21 <jacques> pre changes brightness based on ambient light
Jan 14 18:36:29 <jacques> I wish I could disable that
Jan 14 18:36:35 <Mousey> jacques: that's what i noticed
Jan 14 18:36:39 <CoolMatty> I don't think mine works :/
Jan 14 18:37:47 <Mousey> why does my pre's java stack keep sig 11'ing
Jan 14 18:37:47 <Mousey> ?
Jan 14 18:37:52 <Mousey> makes the phone unusable =(
Jan 14 18:38:53 <CoolMatty> are you using pop3 email
Jan 14 18:39:01 <Alyazir> palm backup sucks
Jan 14 18:39:11 <Alyazir> restored exactly one contact...
Jan 14 18:39:15 <Mousey> agreed, somebody please syncml client!
Jan 14 18:39:28 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: the mute switch has to be a GPIO trigger or something
Jan 14 18:39:33 <CoolMatty> Mousey: are you using pop3 email on your pre
Jan 14 18:39:39 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: cause there is no event interface for it
Jan 14 18:39:39 <Mousey> ew, no
Jan 14 18:39:46 <Mousey> imap though
Jan 14 18:40:03 <CoolMatty> ok, cause mine used to be caused by my email, which I fixed when I went IMAP
Jan 14 18:40:10 <CoolMatty> you can try removing your email account though anyway
Jan 14 18:40:14 <CoolMatty> and see if it stops (on reboot)
Jan 14 18:40:21 <Mousey> uh
Jan 14 18:40:52 <Mousey> well i'd like some more clue as to why first. it doesn't really help to arbitrarily do stuff without...
Jan 14 18:40:56 <Mousey> ah ha. cold boot fixed it
Jan 14 18:41:12 <CoolMatty> I never knew why either, I couldn't nail it down, and neither could palm
Jan 14 18:41:13 <Mousey> ooor not
Jan 14 18:41:20 <Mousey> hmmm
Jan 14 18:41:31 <CoolMatty> it's just an email account, you can always add it back without problems since it's imap :p
Jan 14 18:42:55 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: no controls in alsamixer
Jan 14 18:42:56 <PuffTheMagic> :(
Jan 14 18:43:25 <Mousey> weird, has to do with the phone radio
Jan 14 18:43:51 <PuffTheMagic> why?
Jan 14 18:43:54 <Mousey> whats also weird, and in favor of your (baseless!) hypothesis, is i DID start having problems with mail before it stopped working altogether
Jan 14 18:45:20 <CoolMatty> Mousey: I know it doesn't make much sense for it to be email lol
Jan 14 18:45:25 <CoolMatty> it's just what fixed it for me :p
Jan 14 18:45:36 <hawiwo> any suggestions,hints, tips, scriptname to http://webos.pastebin.com/m26844e8c ?
Jan 14 18:45:54 <CoolMatty> hmm, so my light sensor does work (Yay) but it sure as heck doesn't actually dim the screen :/
Jan 14 18:46:46 <jacques> CoolMatty: weird. mine changes brightness a lot
Jan 14 18:46:56 <jacques> an annoyingly lot
Jan 14 18:47:13 <CoolMatty> yeah it doesn't do it at all for me. only time it dims is due to idle
Jan 14 18:47:25 <Mousey> weird
Jan 14 18:47:27 <Mousey> it's working again, but
Jan 14 18:47:39 <Mousey> still getting
Jan 14 18:47:40 <Mousey> 2010-01-14T18:47:12.685180Z [593] palm-webos-device kern.info kernel: [  593.530000] minicore_launch: CRASH! java(6136) received 11. Waiting up to 60s for minicore to attach.
Jan 14 18:47:57 <CoolMatty> did you reboot after removing the email
Jan 14 18:48:00 <Mousey> now i can't get outta airplane mode
Jan 14 18:48:07 <Mousey> havne't removed email yet, not convinced that's it
Jan 14 18:48:10 <CoolMatty> oh
Jan 14 18:48:17 <CoolMatty> lol you're picky :p
Jan 14 18:48:24 <Mousey> but what the hell, nothing else is working
Jan 14 18:48:38 <CoolMatty> it's just imap, only takes a couple mintues to readd it if it's not the problem
Jan 14 18:48:49 <Mousey> ah, now it's flapping between online and airplane
Jan 14 18:48:49 <CoolMatty> it's not like it'll screw up your contacts or something
Jan 14 18:49:27 <CoolMatty> what's wrong is java has to be running for phone to be active. and it'll run for a tiny bit, before crashing, so it'll look like it's constantly going offline
Jan 14 18:49:31 <Mousey> its hard, with java taking 33+% of the proc and the load floating between 5-9 to do anyhting
Jan 14 18:49:37 <CoolMatty> yeah I know
Jan 14 18:51:46 <Mousey> hmm
Jan 14 18:51:51 <Mousey> maybe there's something to this email thing
Jan 14 18:52:14 * Mousey reboots again, since getting into email is taking forever anyway
Jan 14 18:53:26 <Toaster23> I had alot of problems wiht my gmail email and I was able to fix it all by just signing into gmail from the webbrowser and then signing out.
Jan 14 18:53:59 * Mousey runs his own mailserver
Jan 14 18:54:02 <CoolMatty> Mousey: I actually hope that's not the issue, cause I'd really hate for IMAP to also break it :/
Jan 14 18:54:12 <CoolMatty> so do I, sorta. my own server :p
Jan 14 18:54:18 <Mousey> CoolMatty: i can't imagine it has anything to do with mail
Jan 14 18:55:08 <mdklein> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.keys/switches/status '{"get":"ringer"}' <-- to get the status of the ringer switch
Jan 14 18:55:59 <destinal> mdklein: we'd also need a change event
Jan 14 18:56:16 <destinal> I think just using pulse solves the whole issue
Jan 14 18:56:20 <mdklein> see I missed first half, what are we trying to acomplish?
Jan 14 18:57:16 <Mousey> weird, my email settings are EMPTY
Jan 14 18:57:21 <destinal> mdklein: PuffTheMagic / dtzWill wanted to use alsa directly for sound in native software
Jan 14 18:57:50 <destinal> mdklein: downside is alsa doesn't seem to pay attention to volume settings or so PuffTheMagic's message suggests
Jan 14 18:57:57 <CoolMatty> Mousey: that's never a good thing :/
Jan 14 18:57:57 <Mousey> coincidence?
Jan 14 18:58:04 <destinal> mdklein: or mute switch
Jan 14 19:00:21 <mdklein> hrm
Jan 14 19:00:56 <Mousey> how do i turn airplane mode off from the commandline?
Jan 14 19:04:29 <Mousey> wild. preware thinks the package manager service isn't running!
Jan 14 19:04:43 * Mousey smells a doctoring in his future
Jan 14 19:04:43 <Mousey> dammit
Jan 14 19:07:05 <Mousey> hmm, /opt is full
Jan 14 19:08:28 <FuMan> Can anyone, in 2 sentences or less, explain to me why everyone is so bitter about type: game?
Jan 14 19:09:02 <CoolMatty> possibly because palm isn't letting everyone use it in the official catalog, you have to be specifically authorized by them
Jan 14 19:09:19 <FuMan> who cares
Jan 14 19:09:26 <FuMan> I guess, on a more basic level, why would you want to use it?
Jan 14 19:09:37 <CoolMatty> so you don't have to use upstart service
Jan 14 19:10:31 <Mousey> yah, that was it, out of space on /opt busted the phone
Jan 14 19:10:41 <CoolMatty> how the heck did you fill opt?
Jan 14 19:10:43 <Mousey> woooooonky
Jan 14 19:10:46 <CoolMatty> mine's got 194MB left
Jan 14 19:10:49 <Mousey> its only 258MB?
Jan 14 19:10:56 <Mousey> oh, python and ghostscript
Jan 14 19:11:07 <CoolMatty> :p
Jan 14 19:11:19 <CoolMatty> well glad it wasn't IMAP email :D
Jan 14 19:11:26 <Mousey> tolja that was a non-sequiter
Jan 14 19:11:28 <Mousey> =P
Jan 14 19:11:28 <CoolMatty> I'd shiver in fear for when it'd start hitting me again
Jan 14 19:11:42 <Mousey> maybe you had the same deal, and removing your account freed up space
Jan 14 19:11:59 <Mousey> so the fix seems like the problem, but the problem was actually unrelated to the fix
Jan 14 19:12:01 <CoolMatty> dunno, I mean, it works on imap, doesn't it store the email from there as well?
Jan 14 19:12:21 <Mousey> not if you don't ask it to
Jan 14 19:12:42 <CoolMatty> I have it set to go back quite a ways right now
Jan 14 19:12:43 <Mousey> also IMAP would keep LESS email local than POP3, which would keep ALL email local
Jan 14 19:12:46 <raeb> off topic: gawker offers up to 100,000 for proof of apple tablet (pics, video, etc). apple responds by sending cease and decist letter. apple wins cash prize
Jan 14 19:13:05 <Mousey> lol!!!
Jan 14 19:13:06 <CoolMatty> but I would have only 3 days of email (we're talking maybe 20 emails total) on POP3, and it'd happen anyway.
Jan 14 19:13:15 <Mousey> weird
Jan 14 19:13:31 <CoolMatty> and this was even after doctoring the phone
Jan 14 19:13:39 <CoolMatty> so I'm pretty much convinced it was something there :/
Jan 14 19:13:55 <CoolMatty> glad you figured out your problem though :p
Jan 14 19:14:32 <Mousey> ah HA
Jan 14 19:15:38 <Mousey> boo, removing python means removing dstat!
Jan 14 19:15:49 <Mousey> screw that, keeping dstat!
Jan 14 19:15:54 * Mousey removes ghostscript
Jan 14 19:15:57 <Mousey> i hope i can still print
Jan 14 19:23:32 <destinal> FuMan: type: game is the official way
Jan 14 19:23:42 <destinal> FuMan: it's really easy
Jan 14 19:24:28 <destinal> FuMan: the question is, if you want to do it any other way, what is the benefit you're going for since any other way is more complex
Jan 14 19:25:03 <Toaster23> :)
Jan 14 19:28:08 <mdklein> /dev/input/keypad1 seems to be where the ringer switch is located
Jan 14 19:28:27 <mdklein> at least hexdumping it while flicking it produces outputs
Jan 14 19:28:43 * Mousey demands you put all this neat new speculation on the wiki!
Jan 14 19:28:44 <Mousey> &_&
Jan 14 19:28:51 <Mousey> s/&/^/g
Jan 14 19:28:52 <infobot> Mousey meant: ^_^
Jan 14 19:29:37 <egaudet_work> the unofficially offical way
Jan 14 19:30:05 <acydlord> lol
Jan 14 19:30:25 <mdklein> and enough exploring for now, have some real work to do
Jan 14 19:30:44 <destinal> egaudet_work: well, we can reason out that palm officially told the game developers to do it that way since after we found it games were also released using it
Jan 14 19:30:46 <acydlord> i wish i could remember the shell app i used to use to get keymaps when i was working on getting the keymaps for the aspire one correct
Jan 14 19:31:23 <egaudet_work> destinal: yea but we can also reason that they gave certain developers unofficial access to things.  Doesn't classic have more native abilities etc...
Jan 14 19:31:39 <egaudet_work> It's not "official" until it's documented and publicly accepted
Jan 14 19:31:50 <egaudet_work> FOr all we know all those games will be updated/changed for 1.4.0
Jan 14 19:31:58 <destinal> egaudet_work: classic does what terminal does so we know they officially gave motionapps NPAPI dev kit of some kind
Jan 14 19:32:28 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: i still dont know what you keep talking about
Jan 14 19:32:29 <egaudet_work> but we can't submit anything except for mojo at the moment because we have no 'official' API
Jan 14 19:32:38 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: classic is NPAPI like terminal
Jan 14 19:32:55 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: why do you think the PDK wont be NPAPI?
Jan 14 19:32:56 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: the mojo app embeds a plugin
Jan 14 19:33:05 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: I think now that it will
Jan 14 19:33:17 <PuffTheMagic> i mean they specifcally call it Plugin Dev Kit
Jan 14 19:33:22 <PuffTheMagic> what else could that be?
Jan 14 19:33:46 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: yes but some at palm have called 3rd party SDL + gl games "plugins"
Jan 14 19:33:52 <destinal> so there was some uncertainty
Jan 14 19:34:19 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: yes cause I would image with the "new" PDK that SDL "games" are wrapped in a NPAPI
Jan 14 19:35:21 <Mmd> hello
Jan 14 19:35:26 <Mmd> i need help urgent
Jan 14 19:35:29 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: on a side note, i updated http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Linux_Devfs_Files, i think event4 and event5 are light0 and proximity0 (not necessarily in that order)
Jan 14 19:35:34 <CoolMatty> does Pandora use NPAPI?
Jan 14 19:36:13 <PuffTheMagic> CoolMatty: yeah it probably used LunaMediaAdapter.so
Jan 14 19:36:21 <PuffTheMagic> which is a browser plugin
Jan 14 19:36:31 <Mmd> i got a palm pre asking for activation
Jan 14 19:36:37 <Mmd> what can i do?
Jan 14 19:36:39 <PuffTheMagic> so activate it?
Jan 14 19:36:54 <Mmd> im not in a sprint network
Jan 14 19:37:01 <PuffTheMagic> Mmd: then metadoctor it
Jan 14 19:37:04 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: I think full screen ones that are like xplane  and need for speed will stay the way they are
Jan 14 19:37:05 <Mmd> im in dominican republic
Jan 14 19:37:08 <PuffTheMagic> instructions are on the wiki
Jan 14 19:37:10 <destinal> totally seperate SDL binaries
Jan 14 19:37:13 <acydlord> yeah, use metadoctor, or a hammer
Jan 14 19:37:30 <destinal> but most apps will be mojo + native with npapi
Jan 14 19:37:35 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: well what is the talk about type"game" going away
Jan 14 19:37:44 <destinal> nah it's not going awawy
Jan 14 19:37:48 <Mmd> i follow the instruction but the screen is looking for activation
Jan 14 19:37:49 <destinal> but it may be non-root
Jan 14 19:37:59 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: rwhitby keeps saying its going away
Jan 14 19:38:14 <rb2k> it is actually pretty incredible... there doesn't seem to be any piracy on webos?!
Jan 14 19:38:14 <destinal> he means I think as a means of getting root it is
Jan 14 19:38:29 <Mmd> i guess i need a software
Jan 14 19:38:31 <PuffTheMagic> i dont see type:game is a method of getting root
Jan 14 19:38:35 <Kyusaku> rb2k: there's some but it's minor
Jan 14 19:38:35 <PuffTheMagic> its a way to launch binaries
Jan 14 19:38:52 <rb2k> Kyusaku, but nothing "scene" like as far as I see
Jan 14 19:38:54 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: agreed, he meant I think the security issue with it meaning rogue apps get root, is going away
Jan 14 19:39:13 <rb2k> I think on the iPhone, it's basically the "usual" situation (-> everything)
Jan 14 19:39:14 <egaudet_work> I agree that type: game is unlikely to go away and will probably be run on behalf of an unpriveledged user
Jan 14 19:39:20 <rb2k> haven't seen that much on android
Jan 14 19:39:25 <Kyusaku> rb2k: not as of yet, the platform is still maturing
Jan 14 19:39:27 <rb2k> and nothing on palm
Jan 14 19:39:29 <rb2k> lol :)
Jan 14 19:39:32 <rb2k> nicely put
Jan 14 19:39:40 <destinal> egaudet_work: yeah they're not going to break the current purchased games
Jan 14 19:39:43 <Mmd> will sonmeone help mee with my pre?
Jan 14 19:39:48 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet_work: i bet its mre like a chroot jail
Jan 14 19:40:00 <PuffTheMagic> s/mre/more/
Jan 14 19:40:01 <infobot> PuffTheMagic meant: egaudet_work: i bet its more like a chroot jail
Jan 14 19:40:26 <egaudet_work> I hope not
Jan 14 19:40:40 <Mmd> i need help
Jan 14 19:41:09 <destinal> egaudet_work: doesn't really matter since nothing says they're locking down dev mode and we could use upstart worst case
Jan 14 19:41:18 <egaudet_work> There's no need to get locked up when you can just use the existing security of linux.
Jan 14 19:41:34 <egaudet_work> destinal: yea upstart is staying around :P
Jan 14 19:41:48 <Mmd> i got a palm pre asking for activation
Jan 14 19:41:54 <Mmd> im not in a sprint network
Jan 14 19:42:07 <mdklein> let's golf definitely links with libNPAPIInterface.so
Jan 14 19:42:10 <acydlord> mmd, anyone in here is going to tell you the same thing the walkthroughs tell you, sorry
Jan 14 19:42:42 <CoolMatty> do the metadoctor, mmd, the same thing everyone else said
Jan 14 19:42:45 <destinal> Mmd: if you're not on a palm supported network you'll need to modify the device , for instance use MetaDoctor
Jan 14 19:42:48 <Kyusaku> Mmd: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/207472-webos-internals-meta-doctor.html
Jan 14 19:43:05 <Mmd> ok thank
Jan 14 19:43:37 <destinal> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor
Jan 14 19:43:39 <egaudet_work> libNPAPI is linked in Glyder as well
Jan 14 19:43:45 <egaudet_work> IIR
Jan 14 19:43:46 <egaudet_work> IIRC
Jan 14 19:44:02 <destinal> oh?
Jan 14 19:44:05 <mdklein> Puff: event5 is accelerometer0, event4 is light0, and event3 is proximity0
Jan 14 19:44:30 <destinal> and we want to use hidd regardless, but we'll have to RE it
Jan 14 19:44:57 <destinal> since otherwise we'll have cross-platform issues
Jan 14 19:45:11 <Mmd> metadoctor works in windows?
Jan 14 19:45:42 <egaudet_work> what are we trying to do with hidd?
Jan 14 19:45:56 <Mmd> fix my palm pre
Jan 14 19:47:21 <Kyusaku> Mmd: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor  Go down to the part about WUBI
Jan 14 19:48:04 <Kyusaku> Actually any of the Virtual Machine options are possible on Windows
Jan 14 19:48:24 <Kyusaku> just follow the instructions
Jan 14 19:49:30 <Mmd> ok thankz
Jan 14 19:51:12 <destinal> egaudet_work: I'm just saying not to use the /dev/input directly
Jan 14 19:51:26 <destinal> egaudet_work: since we know kernels look different on different devices
Jan 14 19:51:35 <egaudet_work> oh yea definitely
Jan 14 19:51:48 <egaudet_work> and we should be able to hook into hidd right now from the SDL patch code
Jan 14 19:51:52 <mdklein> PuffTheMagic: I updated the devfs list a bit... also, I slightly disagree with event0 and event1... for me, event 1 is volume, mute, and gesture button...
Jan 14 19:52:42 <mdklein> and I agree to not access them directly, but I still find value in documenting them :-p
Jan 14 19:53:29 <egaudet_work> someone just tell me how I can inject a keyboard event into them :P
Jan 14 19:57:10 <destinal> egaudet_work: yeah actually there's a LOT of useful stuff in the SDL patch for hidd  (which I should have thought about)
Jan 14 19:57:11 <egaudet_work> how long have you had to wait for response from emailing palm's opensource team?
Jan 14 19:57:30 <destinal> egaudet_work: days to weeks, depending
Jan 14 19:57:51 <egaudet_work> maybe they are preparing the Piranha headers for me :P
Jan 14 19:58:09 <egaudet_work> s/me/us/
Jan 14 19:58:11 <infobot> egaudet_work meant: maybe they are preparing the Piranha headers for us :P
Jan 14 19:58:29 <twik> Mmd: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/221385-cross-platform-meta-doctor-guide-bypass-carrier-activation-etc.html
Jan 14 19:59:14 <destinal> egaudet_work: it would be nice if we had  hid/IncsPublic/HidLib.h
Jan 14 19:59:36 <destinal> egaudet_work: which since this is a modification of an LGPL  project, we should be able to get
Jan 14 19:59:50 <egaudet_work> what open source prject?
Jan 14 19:59:54 <destinal> libsdl
Jan 14 20:00:06 <egaudet_work> but we don't need it to build so it's not under lgpl
Jan 14 20:00:18 <destinal> egaudet_work: what?
Jan 14 20:00:27 <destinal> all headers need to be included
Jan 14 20:00:30 <egaudet_work> it falls under separate works
Jan 14 20:00:33 <destinal> to build their modified project
Jan 14 20:00:37 <egaudet_work> destinal: we do not need HidLib.h to build
Jan 14 20:00:44 <destinal> how not?
Jan 14 20:01:16 <egaudet_work> I have not seen libsdl build fail because of it?  hold on let me see
Jan 14 20:01:33 <destinal> egaudet_work: did you --enable-webos  ?
Jan 14 20:01:37 <egaudet_work> yea
Jan 14 20:01:54 <egaudet_work> I get to the same point we all get... P2Context stuff
Jan 14 20:02:26 <destinal> well sure but I don't think they would include a header they don't need
Jan 14 20:02:36 <destinal> so maybe it just doesn't get far enough to break there
Jan 14 20:02:54 <egaudet_work> oh standalone
Jan 14 20:03:18 <egaudet_work> it's only in standalone which I don't know how that works, it's not built for standalone in their distributed modified libsdl
Jan 14 20:03:21 <egaudet_work> it's integrated
Jan 14 20:03:38 <egaudet_work> so the stuff in src/webos/standalone/ that inclues HIdLib.h isn't built in (I THINK)
Jan 14 20:05:40 <destinal> egaudet_work: they link libhid so I can't imagine it's not using the hidd stuff, but again we don't have even a corresponding makefile to know HOW they built it
Jan 14 20:05:54 <destinal> just really fail
Jan 14 20:06:05 <egaudet_work> yea true
Jan 14 20:06:18 <destinal> GPL does require they distribute that
Jan 14 20:06:35 <destinal> LGPL is the same in the complete / corresponding aspects as well AFAIK
Jan 14 20:06:55 <egaudet_work> yea I think LGPL requires the bare minimum to reproduce the exact build
Jan 14 20:07:06 <Rick-work> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/External_Battery_Pack
Jan 14 20:07:43 <destinal> Rick-work: nice
Jan 14 20:09:14 <destinal> Rick-work: and you can draw 1A continuously right, shorting data pins?
Jan 14 20:09:24 <Rick-work> yep
Jan 14 20:09:49 * psykoz grins
Jan 14 20:09:58 <psykoz> leave it to a palm user to come up with something like that ;)
Jan 14 20:11:10 <Rick-work> pretty simple huh?
Jan 14 20:11:21 <CoolMatty> that is so awesome rick I'll probably do that
Jan 14 20:11:39 <destinal> Rick-work: from your experience, how long does it take to charge back up to full with that?
Jan 14 20:11:40 <Rick-work> gives you the effect of a 5x battery.  :-)
Jan 14 20:11:52 <Rick-work> same as plugging into the wall.
Jan 14 20:12:03 <Rick-work> with palm's charger
Jan 14 20:12:04 <destinal> Rick-work: lol have you tried running a touchstone?
Jan 14 20:12:13 <Rick-work> no, and I'm not going to
Jan 14 20:12:24 <destinal> I think it would probably be just fine
Jan 14 20:12:26 <Rick-work> since I don't have one.
Jan 14 20:12:30 <Rick-work> you make one.  :-)
Jan 14 20:13:10 <destinal> I have some altoids cases laying around here actually waiting for projects
Jan 14 20:13:38 <CoolMatty> I wish I had a spare usb port just laying around
Jan 14 20:13:56 <destinal> add non-conductive padding and those things are great cheap project boxes
Jan 14 20:14:20 <Rick-work> If you ignore the plug, sacrifice the big end off a micro usb cable, and solder the other end on direct, you can coil it up in the lid, and cut a notch for the cable to come out of and have nothing coming out of the tin until you want to use it.
Jan 14 20:14:28 <xcomp> Rick-work: genius.
Jan 14 20:14:53 <Rick-work> So I took one of my several microusb's I bought from the bargin cable place and used a six-inch piece of that.
Jan 14 20:15:07 <Rick-work> and ignore the socket.  I'll post a photo of it later.
Jan 14 20:15:49 <doohan> Rick-work, that's awesome
Jan 14 20:16:26 <Rick-work> you could buy a stack of centro batteries off ebay, but this way, you don't have to shut down to swap batteries.....
Jan 14 20:16:55 <doohan> I take it you can run it off the batteries like that?
Jan 14 20:17:10 <destinal> doohan: why not?
Jan 14 20:18:29 <destinal> Rick-work: I wonder also if you could make one with a centro battery and usb cable, I'll have to check voltage
Jan 14 20:18:42 <Rick-work> nope
Jan 14 20:18:47 <Rick-work> centro batteries are 3.2 volts
Jan 14 20:19:11 <destinal> ah, alas, then you need two and a regulator  :(
Jan 14 20:19:30 <destinal> plus you'd have to charge them
Jan 14 20:19:38 <destinal> I think I'll go for your way :)
Jan 14 20:19:58 <Rick-work> my way -- no electronics.
Jan 14 20:20:13 <destinal> yeah, totally passive circuit, just cells.  very KISS
Jan 14 20:20:45 <xcomp> Rick-work: and you can recharge your battery pack by just plugging it into a wall usb adapter?
Jan 14 20:20:53 <Rick-work> oh  no.
Jan 14 20:21:06 <destinal> you'd need an NiMH charger
Jan 14 20:21:12 <Rick-work> you recharg it by popping the aa batteries out and putting them into a normal nimh wall charger.
Jan 14 20:21:24 * destinal has one already
Jan 14 20:21:25 <xcomp> yeah, gotcha
Jan 14 20:21:32 <xcomp> i have one of those
Jan 14 20:21:33 <CoolMatty> I'm going to do this with my NiZn batteries I just got
Jan 14 20:21:38 <CoolMatty> they're 1.6 volt, so I'd use 3
Jan 14 20:21:40 <xcomp> looks like a neat little project
Jan 14 20:22:07 <Rick-work> what's the capacity of NiZn ?
Jan 14 20:22:31 <Rick-work> 'cause good NiMH are 2900 mAH....
Jan 14 20:22:53 <CoolMatty> 2500mah it says
Jan 14 20:23:40 <CoolMatty> these don't wear down like nimh though
Jan 14 20:24:59 <destinal> I have some rayovac 2300 mAH  1.2v's that I got cheap off some slickdeals link
Jan 14 20:25:11 <destinal> is good enough
Jan 14 20:26:13 <Rick-work> Coolmatty  does it say 2500 mah or 2500 mwh
Jan 14 20:26:22 <Rick-work> because there's a rather huge difference.
Jan 14 20:26:26 <FuMan> the Verison battery features th
Jan 14 20:26:26 <CoolMatty> hah good eye :p
Jan 14 20:26:29 <FuMan> Verizon version
Jan 14 20:26:30 <CoolMatty> it's mwh
Jan 14 20:26:39 <CoolMatty> so mah I have no idea
Jan 14 20:27:15 <Rick-work> ok, and NiMH is 2900 mah at 1.2 v  so 3480 mwh
Jan 14 20:27:26 <Rick-work> volts times amps = watts
Jan 14 20:27:54 <Rick-work> so, it's about 2/3 the capacity per cell of the high cap NiMH
Jan 14 20:28:22 <Rick-work> 3 of them would be 7.5 watt-hours,  or essentially two pre-charge-cycles.
Jan 14 20:31:10 <destinal> Rick-work: I assume Li-on batteries should _not_ be charged in chargers designed for NiMH?
Jan 14 20:31:24 <Rick-work> no
Jan 14 20:31:38 <Rick-work> but Li-ion batteries in AA form factor are over 3 volts EACH.
Jan 14 20:31:57 <Rick-work> and the E2 battereis from Energizer are not rechargable.
Jan 14 20:34:10 <destinal> Rick-work: actually wow, a Lion charge circuit is a lot simpler than one for nimh
Jan 14 20:34:53 <destinal> still thinking those centro batteries, then again, chinese chargers for $10 shipped on ebay
Jan 14 20:34:55 <Rick-work> yes,  but the e2 batteries from energizer are NOT RECHARGABLE and rechargable li-ion batteries are over 3 volts EACH.
Jan 14 20:34:58 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: making a new porta-charger?
Jan 14 20:35:08 <Rick-work> documenting it PuffTheMagic
Jan 14 20:35:13 <Rick-work> I put a page on our wiki
Jan 14 20:35:30 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: i should find the part number for that case I got at radio shack
Jan 14 20:35:35 <PuffTheMagic> the one with a built in switch
Jan 14 20:35:42 <Rick-work> that would be good.
Jan 14 20:36:26 <CoolMatty> Yeah, these NiZn are better for high-voltage usage (flash in cameras, laser pointers, etc). basically anything that drains batteries fast, it'll last longer.
Jan 14 20:36:43 <PuffTheMagic> found it
Jan 14 20:36:48 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062254&filterName=Category
Jan 14 20:36:50 <PuffTheMagic> that is what i got
Jan 14 20:37:26 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: i essentially connected the + - of the usb to the red/back cabled comming out of that box
Jan 14 20:37:48 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: except i actually removed them and brought the usb cable right into that hole where those wires came out to make it look better
Jan 14 20:37:49 <CoolMatty> PuffTheMagic: that's AAA, not AA, you know
Jan 14 20:37:54 <PuffTheMagic> oops
Jan 14 20:38:01 <PuffTheMagic> let me find the AA version
Jan 14 20:38:03 <PuffTheMagic> cause that is what i got
Jan 14 20:38:07 <PuffTheMagic> same thing basically
Jan 14 20:38:10 <Rick-work> the aa one is 3 on the end instead of 4
Jan 14 20:38:21 <Rick-work> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062253
Jan 14 20:38:24 <PuffTheMagic> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062253&filterName=Category
Jan 14 20:38:25 <PuffTheMagic> there
Jan 14 20:38:27 <PuffTheMagic> that is the AA one
Jan 14 20:38:31 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 14 20:38:40 <CoolMatty> hmph
Jan 14 20:38:42 <CoolMatty> I wish they had one that took 3 AA's
Jan 14 20:38:50 <CoolMatty> kinda silly to get 4 when I'll only use 3 batteries
Jan 14 20:38:53 <PuffTheMagic> its a tight squeeze to make it all professional looking
Jan 14 20:38:58 <Mousey> hmm, opennms uses jetty
Jan 14 20:39:15 <PuffTheMagic> my next version might try to jam a usb connector in there instead of hardwiring it
Jan 14 20:39:28 <Towzzer> dragon
Jan 14 20:42:26 <CoolMatty> oh thats a good idea puff, I just might put the usb port in that plastic thing where the fourth battery would go
Jan 14 20:42:36 <Rick-work> updated http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/External_Battery_Pack
Jan 14 20:43:40 <PuffTheMagic> CoolMatty: you could, but 4 batterys is nice :D
Jan 14 20:43:41 <Rick-work> Yours works well, right PuffTheMagic
Jan 14 20:43:47 <PuffTheMagic> hell yeah it does
Jan 14 20:44:05 <Rick-work> it's SUCH a good idea.
Jan 14 20:44:11 <Rick-work> Someone ought to sell them.
Jan 14 20:44:42 <CoolMatty> is there some sort of graphic that shows which pin is 1 2 3 4 on the usb port? :p
Jan 14 20:45:05 <PuffTheMagic> its great for when im at conferences
Jan 14 20:45:19 <PuffTheMagic> CoolMatty: its the red and black ones ;)
Jan 14 20:45:24 <PuffTheMagic> the outer ones
Jan 14 20:45:34 <CoolMatty> yeah but which is 1 and which is 4 :p
Jan 14 20:45:41 <CoolMatty> I don't think getting them backwards is a good idea :p
Jan 14 20:46:34 <PuffTheMagic> CoolMatty: google will show u the pinout
Jan 14 20:46:54 <oil> google knows all
Jan 14 20:46:57 * oil bows
Jan 14 20:47:28 <jayvan> is it normal for the wosi pdk installations 'make stage' step to take an extremely long time?
Jan 14 20:49:13 <Rick-work> yes
Jan 14 20:49:18 <Rick-work> a VERY long time.
Jan 14 20:49:37 <jayvan> ok good I was starting to wonder
Jan 14 20:49:45 <Rick-work> Espeically if you are on a VM, and if your host machine has less than 4 gig of ram.
Jan 14 20:50:01 <Rick-work> found a commercial version  $40  !!!!
Jan 14 20:50:09 <Rick-work> Ouch.
Jan 14 20:50:32 <jayvan> not on a vm but has been a very long time and still going
Jan 14 20:51:14 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: i put a pic of my finnished verion on that page
Jan 14 20:51:22 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: if u want to reformat the layout go ahead
Jan 14 20:58:52 <Rick-work> did that and linked to the $22 commercial version on Amazon if people don't want to do-it-yourself.
Jan 14 21:02:39 <mdklein> I'll definitely have to get an external pack before I do ragbrai again this year... biking through middle-of-nowhere low coverage and roaming areas definitely kill it fast :-p
Jan 14 21:03:45 <acydlord> i have 4 batteries now, had 2 for the centro, ended up with 2 for the pre
Jan 14 21:03:51 <acydlord> well 5 if you count the one in the pixi
Jan 14 21:03:53 <Rick-work> and carrying 4 extra nimh means that you can change batteries without turning phone off...   so you get effectively  1 + 3.75 + 3.75 = 8.5x regular life...
Jan 14 21:04:11 <Rick-work> acydlord  yeah, but you ahve to turn the phone off to change batteries.
Jan 14 21:04:25 <acydlord> Rick-work, true that.
Jan 14 21:04:42 <Rick-work> this is better.
Jan 14 21:05:18 <acydlord> now all someone needs to do is get a 3d printer and print out an enclosure that will snap to the phone
Jan 14 21:05:29 <mdklein> my connection is absolute crap today, argh
Jan 14 21:07:00 <PuffTheMagic> mdklein: i a generator on my bike for lights which i connected to a usb port and 5v regulator to charge my ipod :D
Jan 14 21:07:10 <mdklein> nice
Jan 14 21:07:19 <PuffTheMagic> works real nice
Jan 14 21:08:02 <Rick-work> sdlvnc now in wiki!
Jan 14 21:08:09 <mdklein> hrm... it seems we have a 3d printer... $5.75/cubic inch material
Jan 14 21:08:15 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: is that working well?
Jan 14 21:08:23 <Rick-work> so the wiki says.
Jan 14 21:08:47 <PuffTheMagic> is it in Preware now?
Jan 14 21:08:54 <Rick-work> wiki says no
Jan 14 21:09:17 <PuffTheMagic> :(
Jan 14 21:10:13 <PuffTheMagic> sdlvnc + an xorgserver on the pre could be fun :D
Jan 14 21:10:25 <PuffTheMagic> Xorg in a card in Luna
Jan 14 21:10:37 <PuffTheMagic> sounds like a demon spawn
Jan 14 21:11:58 <zonyl> PuffTheMagic: What gets really wack is when I use sdlVNC to connect to X then run vncviewer ;)
Jan 14 21:12:06 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 14 21:12:31 <PuffTheMagic> its like being in a bathroom looking at mirrors on opposite sides and seeing your self infinite times :D
Jan 14 21:12:44 <destinal> mdklein: that seems really expensive for material
Jan 14 21:12:59 <destinal> I see prices for 5 lbs of HDPE at $30
Jan 14 21:13:14 <destinal> or 5lbs  ABS for $50
Jan 14 21:13:31 <mdklein> destinal: well, that includes the cost to run it too... it'll probably get cheaper over the years heh
Jan 14 21:13:45 <mdklein> I'm just looking at my pricing list for print services
Jan 14 21:13:54 <destinal> it's cool that they even offer it though
Jan 14 21:14:04 <mdklein> the laser cutter is only $.10 a minute
Jan 14 21:14:07 <mdklein> nice
Jan 14 21:14:12 <mdklein> I didn't know that was available :-/
Jan 14 21:14:48 <destinal> mdklein: this may come in handy for you then -- http://www.thingiverse.com/
Jan 14 21:15:13 <destinal> lots of 3d models to print
Jan 14 21:15:48 <Robi_> destinal: any new commands from mhspot
Jan 14 21:15:50 <acydlord> the local hackerspace here is building a reprap
Jan 14 21:15:50 <destinal> In the future you'll need some random plastic part and instead of ordering it, just download the model and print it at home  :)
Jan 14 21:17:21 <destinal> acydlord: a cupcake kit is apparently $750
Jan 14 21:17:40 <acydlord> i wish i had that kind of money
Jan 14 21:17:41 <destinal> some assembly required :P
Jan 14 21:17:50 <acydlord> i'd just print random kitch all the time
Jan 14 21:18:26 <raeb> thats what i said when coding for the TI-85 calculator: some assembly required
Jan 14 21:18:38 <destinal> :)
Jan 14 21:18:45 <acydlord> instantrimshot.com
Jan 14 21:18:56 <acydlord> or rather instantrimshot.wav
Jan 14 21:19:04 <acydlord> since im too lazy to link
Jan 14 21:22:26 <Robi_> destinal: got a wiki page set up for mhspot?
Jan 14 21:22:44 <Robi_> there's lots of interesting strings to probe
Jan 14 21:23:08 <mdklein> ooo, speaking of batteries... we had a 50kVA UPS explode (+flames) last month from a catastrophic failure in a single defective cell... so be careful and monitor your devices semi-frequently... especially if you device involves daisy chaining 30 or so car batteries...
Jan 14 21:24:50 <destinal> Robi_: not yet re: the wiki page
Jan 14 21:25:15 <destinal> everything I've done so far is in the logs but so far I just have it giving info -- I think I know the methods but not how to use them exactly
Jan 14 21:25:50 <acydlord> mdklein, we had that happen on a smaller unit at my last employer. couldnt figure out why it kept overvolting and shutting itself down
Jan 14 21:26:05 <karotte_exe> hi
Jan 14 21:26:06 <Robi_> destinal: all i get is bad commands so far
Jan 14 21:26:19 <Robi_> sysInfo {} doens't seem to do much
Jan 14 21:26:46 <acydlord> hmm, does this look like a ripoff of something weve seen recently? http://app.itize.us/wp/
Jan 14 21:31:36 <hape> Hi as we have no Navi appliaction in Germany someone had the ides if Navit could be compiled for the Pre
Jan 14 21:31:56 <hape> He documented it here => http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2153147
Jan 14 21:32:28 <hape> Could please one of you take a short look if it would be Possible. It can use SDL for graphic output
Jan 14 21:32:33 <hape> Thanks in advance
Jan 14 21:35:13 <zsoc> dtzWill|away: so why doesn't arm_new.h do what we want it to?
Jan 14 21:36:09 <zsoc> hape: I have no reason to think it won't work, without seeing the source.
Jan 14 21:36:28 <destinal> Robi_: ask and ye shall receive
Jan 14 21:36:29 <destinal> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Mobilehotspot
Jan 14 21:36:35 <zsoc> hape: keep in mind webos doesn't support SDL_HWSURFACE or SDL_DOUBLEBUF
Jan 14 21:36:37 <karotte_exe> ahm, I have a strange situation with my palm. I have a german pré and us-webos. can download us-patches, but haven't the full appcatalog. why? why only the beta?
Jan 14 21:37:10 <zsoc> karotte_exe: I believe that is based on your palm profile
Jan 14 21:37:19 <Rick-work> bingo zsoc
Jan 14 21:37:26 <destinal> Robi_:  this is totally guessed based on strings output and trial and error
Jan 14 21:37:46 <karotte_exe> hm, do you mean my palm account?
Jan 14 21:38:01 <Rick-work> you would need to have a us user create a palm profile for you and send it to you and overwrite the palm profile currently on your phone.  The palm profile has to have been established from a us carrier.
Jan 14 21:38:41 <zonyl> hape: took a quick look at the code.  You would also need a GPS solution
Jan 14 21:39:21 <hape> Thanks zonyl , so we do not have the interface that they use?
Jan 14 21:39:36 <destinal> Robi_: updated the hotspot article slightly
Jan 14 21:39:44 <karotte_exe> what will be deleted when I will create a us-profile?
Jan 14 21:39:49 <seventyeight> i can not find the quake ipkg package in the repos. has this been removed?
Jan 14 21:40:06 <zonyl> hape: Im not sure how to get at the gps from native code on webos.  openmoko uses libGPS which I am sure is specific to their driver.
Jan 14 21:40:45 <zsoc> wait, does the ARM Cortex A8 in the sprint Pre support the THUMB extension?
Jan 14 21:40:52 <zsoc> maybe that's a geist question.
Jan 14 21:40:53 <destinal> zsoc: yes
Jan 14 21:41:03 <zsoc> destinal: or a destinal question lol
Jan 14 21:41:24 <destinal> zsoc: I only know because geist talked about writing code for it (bootie I think) in thumb
Jan 14 21:41:28 <destinal> it's in the logs
Jan 14 21:42:10 <zsoc> destinal: then I don't understand why vba can't play gba games. most of these instructions are in thumb. is it like something you have to 'turn on'?
Jan 14 21:42:19 <destinal> yes I think so
Jan 14 21:42:36 <destinal> there's a mode switch
Jan 14 21:42:42 <zsoc> hmm...
Jan 14 21:43:02 <zsoc> like.. in the asm itself, or is this something you have to switch on 'on boot'?
Jan 14 21:43:24 <zsoc> I wish I had access to the log server so I can grep lol
Jan 14 21:43:26 <destinal> I think in the ASM
Jan 14 21:44:19 <zsoc> you'd think there'd be docs somewhere...
Jan 14 21:45:39 <destinal> webos-internals.20090614.txt:Jun 13 05:42:21 <cdm> Why are you trying to write code in thumb?  Nothing on pre is compiled that way...
Jan 14 21:45:39 <destinal> webos-internals.20090614.txt:Jun 13 05:42:56 <geist> cdm: not true, bootie is in thumb2
Jan 14 21:46:19 <karotte_exe> where can I change my palm profile on the pré?
Jan 14 21:46:47 <zsoc> destinal: in other words.. I need to find geist lol
Jan 14 21:46:56 * zsoc says geist a few more times
Jan 14 21:47:17 <destinal> webos-internals.20090915.txt:Sep 14 05:24:33 <geist> still haven't decided what to do about thumb yet though
Jan 14 21:47:18 <destinal> webos-internals.20090915.txt:Sep 14 05:24:51 <geist> in the past i've found thumb to be a big win, but with an L2 in front of the cpu it appears to not make much difference anymore
Jan 14 21:47:36 <zsoc> that's an interesting statement.
Jan 14 21:48:14 <destinal> webos-internals.20090915.txt:Sep 14 05:25:52 <geist> i pushed for thumb real hard when i was at apple, and that's why iphone uses it
Jan 14 21:48:15 <destinal> webos-internals.20090915.txt:Sep 14 05:26:36 <geist> especially thumb2, which is poorly supported on all but the most current toolchains
Jan 14 21:48:34 <zsoc> destinal: posting logs in a logged channel creates some sort of recursive entropy I think.
Jan 14 21:48:42 <destinal> hehe
Jan 14 21:48:43 <destinal> true
Jan 14 21:49:18 <destinal> that's basically it though
Jan 14 21:49:26 <zsoc> as I understand it, the whole idea behind thumb is using 16 bit instructions instead of 8. but I always thought arm was 32 risc anyway
Jan 14 21:49:48 <bpadalino|work> 16-bit instead of 32 i thought
Jan 14 21:57:11 <karotte_exe> can I change my palm profile  like a user by windows?
Jan 14 21:57:25 <nebula> um
Jan 14 21:57:45 <nebula> probably, but i wouldn't expect similar results
Jan 14 21:57:58 <nebula> it's meant for backup, more than anything imho
Jan 14 21:59:18 <karotte_exe> or can I transform my german account to a us-acount?
Jan 14 21:59:32 <nebula> better asked in #palm
Jan 14 21:59:35 <nebula> err...
Jan 14 21:59:37 <nebula> #webos
Jan 14 21:59:44 <zsoc> bpadalino|work: hmm. ok that would make more sense
Jan 14 22:00:11 <karotte_exe> k
Jan 14 22:00:28 <karotte_exe> by
Jan 14 22:01:51 <nebula> kthxbye
Jan 14 22:02:33 <bpadalino|work> heh
Jan 14 22:04:17 <Jonny> hi
Jan 14 22:04:40 <Jonny> How can I submit a new app?
Jan 14 22:05:02 <rwhitby> morning
Jan 14 22:05:29 <Guest69598> oh, I'm in Germany. There's 23 o'clock
Jan 14 22:05:32 <Guest69598> :)
Jan 14 22:05:34 <destinal-wirc> rwhitby: hey
Jan 14 22:05:58 <hape> zonyl: It ssems to work on a lot of mobile platfoms (including the iPhone) http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Main_Page#Getting_started . But all seems to use the gpsd service to read the GPS data
Jan 14 22:07:16 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: can you send me an updated ipkg for debug termplugin?  I have 1.3.1 installed now, but no time this morning to spend compiling and stuff
Jan 14 22:08:15 <rwhitby> does anyone else find it strange that PreCentral hasn't covered Preware accessing the app catalog?  Nor were they willing to mention it at all in the PalmCast?  I smell an app in the works ...
Jan 14 22:11:36 <Rick-work> so do I
Jan 14 22:11:44 <Rick-work> but I have no idea which dev they webnt to
Jan 14 22:12:00 <destinal-wirc> rwhitby: when I get to a pc yes
Jan 14 22:13:30 * rwhitby bbl
Jan 14 22:13:45 <zsoc> morning
Jan 14 22:14:16 <destinal-wirc> hey
Jan 14 22:15:55 <zsoc> rwhitby: i saw i minor blip about it on an article somewhere "Preware soon to have app catalog feed"
Jan 14 22:16:14 <zsoc> rwhitby: do we need a PR site? webosinternalscentral? :p
Jan 14 22:20:00 <destinal-wirc> maybe a blog that is real and not twitter but not like a precentral
Jan 14 22:20:08 <destinal-wirc> more like hackaday
Jan 14 22:24:24 <zsoc> destinal-wirc: good idea
Jan 14 22:29:16 <CoolMatty> I was actually interested in doing that
Jan 14 22:29:26 <CoolMatty> making like a blog with recent webos internals discoveries and updates
Jan 14 22:29:29 <Robi_> bah new pre shipped with 1.2.1
Jan 14 22:29:43 <CoolMatty> maybe review non-official apps, and even podcasts?
Jan 14 22:30:49 <CoolMatty> If you guys are interested in that sort of thing, I'd be happy to whip up a site for it
Jan 14 22:39:49 <zsoc> why do so many people release things "open source" with no documentation on versioning or the original version their revision was made from?
Jan 14 22:39:56 <zsoc> s/revision/derivitive
Jan 14 22:40:40 <zonyl> zsoc: cause Im lazy ;)
Jan 14 22:40:55 <zsoc> zonyl: lol :p wasn't referring to you.. but ok ;) how is that vnc front end coming along?
Jan 14 22:41:22 <zonyl> zsoc: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:SdlVNC
Jan 14 22:41:36 <zsoc> ouch, pointed to a wiki... gg :D
Jan 14 22:41:52 <zsoc> zonyl: oh god take me off those credits, I didn't do a thing :P
Jan 14 22:42:27 <zonyl> zsoc: That double buffer thing would have killed the project for me.
Jan 14 22:43:06 <zsoc> zonyl: oh.. right place at the right time i suppose? :>
Jan 14 22:43:53 <zonyl> zsoc: I only had so much time allotted to get it to that point, so I didnt bother trying to bring in the original rev of the library etc.  I did at least submit my changes back to the author who thanked me and said it would be included if he ever released it again.
Jan 14 22:45:29 <zonyl> zsoc: Definitely good timing. I would have bailed on the project alltogether that night if you hadnt been on this channel within that window.
Jan 14 22:45:31 <zonyl> ;)
Jan 14 22:45:53 <dBsooner> CoolMatty: isn't there already one? WebOSroundup.com
Jan 14 22:46:29 <Tag234> testing
Jan 14 22:48:25 <CoolMatty> dBsooner: that seems to be more for the official app catalog. we were talking about a site more centered around just webos internals community
Jan 14 22:48:34 <CoolMatty> talking about patches, SDL/OpenGL development, etc
Jan 14 22:48:38 <zonyl> My next project I think will be Kdrive (SDL Xorg)
Jan 14 22:51:22 <CoolMatty> dBsooner: I'm just thinking, along with zsoc/destinal, that webos internals needs more PR itself. I think it should kinda pull away from precentral some. not alienate the relationship, but really become a community in its own right.
Jan 14 22:51:27 <CoolMatty> for the developers
Jan 14 22:52:25 <dBsooner> CoolMatty: I agree, but then again we have to somehow stick where AM is.
Jan 14 22:52:43 <dBsooner> CoolMatty: And most AM's don't think the wiki is easy to understand so they stay far away from it.. at PC.net
Jan 14 22:53:09 <destinal-wirc> we need something geeky yet easy to read
Jan 14 22:53:14 <destinal-wirc> think hackaday
Jan 14 22:53:26 <CoolMatty> AM?
Jan 14 22:53:32 <zonyl> What would be nice is a forum that is techinically oriented.  ala. xda-developers
Jan 14 22:54:34 <CoolMatty> I think a lot of what is on precentral is fine. releases and such. but it's quite a mess for actual developers. It's pretty common in here for one person to have no idea what another person is doing on such and such project
Jan 14 22:54:51 <CoolMatty> and the wiki is currently the only way we have to really maintain a communication beyond IRC
Jan 14 22:55:20 * xcomp pops in, completely agrees
Jan 14 22:55:20 <CoolMatty> I think if we keep it simple, effective, it should be a good supplement to the wiki
Jan 14 22:55:23 <destinal-wirc> well there are precentral development forums but I see what you mean
Jan 14 22:55:25 <xcomp> we need a webos-internals forum
Jan 14 22:55:43 <xcomp> where developers can talk about developer stuff
Jan 14 22:56:19 <xcomp> without having to wade through countless "app request" and "patch request" and "i'll pay $10 to anyone who can make this" thrads
Jan 14 22:56:20 <zsoc> But we're all here
Jan 14 22:56:22 <zonyl> CoolMatty: Yes, this would be nice.
Jan 14 22:56:27 <zsoc> and here on our pre also lol
Jan 14 22:56:30 <CoolMatty> destinal: precentral has a heavy focus on official app development
Jan 14 22:56:35 <CoolMatty> which is fine
Jan 14 22:56:46 <dBsooner> AM = Aunt Minnie
Jan 14 22:56:51 <dBsooner> ~dict AM
Jan 14 22:56:52 <destinal-wirc> ok so more a hacking forum
Jan 14 22:56:54 <infobot> Dictionary 'AM' (5 of 13): modulation of the amplitude of the (radio) carrier wave  ;; a radioactive transuranic metallic element; discovered by bombarding uranium with helium atoms  ;; before noon; "let's meet at 11 A.M."  ;; before noon  ;; <networking> The {country code} for Armenia. Used for the {vanity domain} "i.am". (1999-01-27).
Jan 14 22:56:57 <CoolMatty> lawl :p ok I get it, dBsooner
Jan 14 22:57:01 <CoolMatty> haha dict fail
Jan 14 22:57:01 <dBsooner> ~dict Aunt Minnie
Jan 14 22:57:03 <infobot> could not find definition for Aunt Minnie
Jan 14 22:57:06 <xcomp> irc is great but you can't sustain discussions here
Jan 14 22:57:12 <CoolMatty> I get what you mean dBsooner, no need :p
Jan 14 22:57:21 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: define aunt minnie so I can learned infobot
Jan 14 22:57:21 <xcomp> once a discussion is done, it's over and obliterated into history
Jan 14 22:57:50 <CoolMatty> Well I guess I'll whip something up for you all
Jan 14 22:57:50 <zsoc> xcomp: minus the whole everything is logged thing, you mean?
Jan 14 22:57:57 <zsoc> xcomp: that's the idea of the wiki
Jan 14 22:58:00 <CoolMatty> any particular favorites for forum software you guys have? :p
Jan 14 22:58:32 <destinal-wirc> zsoc: : the thing with the wiki is it loses threadedness
Jan 14 22:58:48 <xcomp> zsoc: well yeah, but searching through irc logs to try and participate in a discussion that happened two days ago isn't quite ... optimal
Jan 14 22:58:59 <zsoc> Ok then, forum.
Jan 14 22:59:08 <zsoc> There's just going to be a lot of redundency
Jan 14 22:59:15 <zsoc> s/redundency/redundancy
Jan 14 22:59:20 <xorg> anyone tinker with samba?
Jan 14 22:59:25 <xcomp> zsoc: not knocking the wiki or irc ... they are both awesome, but I really would love either a forum or at least a mailing list in addition
Jan 14 22:59:32 <KEYofR> mailman
Jan 14 22:59:34 <CoolMatty> options for forum software: vb (at a cost), phpbb, smf, and uhm...
Jan 14 22:59:41 <destinal-wirc> xorg: : isn't it on optware?
Jan 14 22:59:49 <zsoc> CoolMatty: pretty sure i'd have to be foss ;)
Jan 14 22:59:57 <xorg> trying mount -t smbs but it says device not found... does it need drivers in kernel/
Jan 14 23:00:03 <CoolMatty> okay, so vb is obviously out
Jan 14 23:00:13 <xcomp> smf is pretty good
Jan 14 23:00:17 <xorg> smbs=smbfs
Jan 14 23:00:19 <CoolMatty> I don't know what you all's feelings on phpbb is, but I have liked smf
Jan 14 23:00:19 <destinal-wirc> xorg: : try cifs
Jan 14 23:00:58 <destinal-wirc> downside is a forum is administrative work
Jan 14 23:01:04 <xorg> trying...
Jan 14 23:01:20 <CoolMatty> I'll handle administration :p
Jan 14 23:01:24 <CoolMatty> that's why I offered
Jan 14 23:01:28 <CoolMatty> cause you don't see me coding
Jan 14 23:01:31 <CoolMatty> >.>
Jan 14 23:02:28 <acydlord> CoolMatty, if i recall there is a google group that never gets used
Jan 14 23:02:43 <CoolMatty> google groups never get used >.>
Jan 14 23:03:36 <xcomp> usenet
Jan 14 23:03:48 <xcomp> ok, just kidding. sort of :)
Jan 14 23:03:49 <CoolMatty> bbs
Jan 14 23:04:33 <CoolMatty> I'll get this forum setup and running, and you guys can toss me ideas for what you'd like to see on it/frontpage stuff.
Jan 14 23:04:38 <CoolMatty> if it falls out and no one uses it, no big loss
Jan 14 23:04:52 <Tibfib> SMF is pretty good
Jan 14 23:04:54 <oilsworkn> oh, pound made it into preware
Jan 14 23:05:08 <zsoc> oilsworkn: yeah, isn't it lovely? :p
Jan 14 23:05:17 <oilsworkn> i haven't tried it out
Jan 14 23:05:27 <egaudet_work> pound?
Jan 14 23:05:32 <Tibfib> irc client
Jan 14 23:05:35 <Tibfib> with no service
Jan 14 23:05:38 <egaudet_work> WHHHAT
Jan 14 23:05:39 <oilsworkn> the one that guy was making
Jan 14 23:05:43 <egaudet_work> oh
Jan 14 23:05:47 <egaudet_work> cool
Jan 14 23:05:48 <oilsworkn> he was in #wirc talking about it when we were developing
Jan 14 23:06:08 <egaudet_work> yea i remember
Jan 14 23:06:14 <egaudet_work> web one right?
Jan 14 23:06:19 <oilsworkn> yeah
Jan 14 23:06:19 <xorg> destinal, thanks, cifs worked
Jan 14 23:06:30 <oilsworkn> idk if he ever fixed hte connection problems he was talking about
Jan 14 23:07:24 <Tibfib> oil: I'd hope so if he put it online...
Jan 14 23:07:37 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: one requirement for any new forum (I'll hold opinion on whether a new one is worth it or not) is that you must be able to get an RSS feed of (1) new topics, and (2) new posts in topics to which you are subscribed.
Jan 14 23:08:10 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: and it must absolutely remember exactly where you were up to in each thread, and have a way to mark everything read in both a thread and a forum.
Jan 14 23:08:11 <dBsooner> rwhitby: Come on.. say what you really mean. :)
Jan 14 23:08:41 <KEYofR> web irc client? then, it has a service just on someone elses box?
Jan 14 23:08:43 <oilsworkn> and it must make waffles
Jan 14 23:08:46 <dBsooner> rwhitby: Easy peasy.. vBulletin and have all threads view history stored in sql.
Jan 14 23:08:50 <zsoc> dBsooner: I think he means "the reason we don't have a forum is because the features I want in one are complicated and would take a lot of work" :P
Jan 14 23:08:50 <KEYofR> ala cgi::irc?
Jan 14 23:09:03 <oilsworkn> keyofr, i don't remember exactly
Jan 14 23:09:11 <oilsworkn> it talks to like, freenodes web based irc client
Jan 14 23:09:20 <oilsworkn> it only works for networks that have a specific one setup
Jan 14 23:09:28 <KEYofR> ah
Jan 14 23:09:47 * dBsooner imagines registering for yet another webos site
Jan 14 23:10:01 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: oh, and the forum has to be completely useable from the Pre
Jan 14 23:10:13 <dBsooner> LOL
Jan 14 23:10:16 <oilsworkn> CoolMatty: don't forget the waffles!
Jan 14 23:10:46 <dBsooner> rwhitby: What about "it also has to be able to turn itself off at night to save electricity."
Jan 14 23:11:00 <Rick-work> and it ought to be able to subscribe to threads to send emails and it ought to be able to REPLY to threads via email.  I hate getting emails that say "So, so-and-so has replied to your message, go here to read it."  that sucks.
Jan 14 23:11:02 <rwhitby> and it should have type of clean style and ease of use that oilsworkn puts in any app he writes.  no garish default themes.
Jan 14 23:11:11 <rwhitby> Rick-work: yep, that too.
Jan 14 23:11:40 <Rick-work> all in all,  I hate forum software generally.
Jan 14 23:11:43 <zsoc> oilsworkn: hey, finally found a job for you ;)
Jan 14 23:11:49 <Robi_> that's a lot of infra for just a measly forum
Jan 14 23:11:54 * oilsworkn has written forum software before believe it or not :)
Jan 14 23:12:01 <Robi_> sending emails is easy, accepting is not
Jan 14 23:12:01 <dBsooner> rwhitby: So are you basically saying that the forum is a bad idea?
Jan 14 23:12:12 <zsoc> I don't understand. dtzWill lives in the same timezone as me and yet we are _always_ on opposite hours.
Jan 14 23:12:13 <oilsworkn> it was fancy schmancy
Jan 14 23:12:20 <rwhitby> and no banner ads - the most advertisiing you can put on it is like we have on webos-internals.org - text ads that are way down off the first screen.
Jan 14 23:12:22 <oilsworkn> with ajax to tell you when someone was editing a post or replying
Jan 14 23:12:33 <Rick-work> In an IDEAL world, forum software would be readable via newsreaders.
Jan 14 23:12:42 <Sonic-NKT> would love to see a forum with good mobile browser support to use it from the pre
Jan 14 23:12:46 <KEYofR> haha webforum REMIX
Jan 14 23:12:55 <Robi_> forum readers
Jan 14 23:13:00 * zsoc changes the channel name from #webos-internals to #forum-internals
Jan 14 23:13:05 <Rick-work> oh and THREADING.   not phpbb crappy flat messaging.  Threads.
Jan 14 23:13:05 <dBsooner> wouldn't a good mobile browser support just require a nice Theme?
Jan 14 23:13:07 <zsoc> Ok, I'm going to start the forum-internals wiki site
Jan 14 23:13:13 <dBsooner> vBulletin has great mobile themes.
Jan 14 23:13:15 <KEYofR> now with awesom splash screen!
Jan 14 23:13:38 <oilsworkn> and by splash screen, he means 30 minute intro flash video
Jan 14 23:13:41 <Rick-work> vBulletin comes close, actually.
Jan 14 23:13:53 <KEYofR> hehehe
Jan 14 23:14:05 <dBsooner> i run vBulletin @ http://smms.vision5.com/
Jan 14 23:14:24 <zsoc> oilsworkn: definitely silverlight
Jan 14 23:14:27 <dBsooner> ^^ My old (and somewhat current) WinMo development program. sMMS
Jan 14 23:15:20 * oilsworkn has yet to install silverlight on any of his machines
Jan 14 23:15:25 * oilsworkn resists the borg
Jan 14 23:16:38 * oilsworkn apologizes for killing the channel
Jan 14 23:16:38 <destinal-wirc> Rick-work: are you advocating mailing list then?
Jan 14 23:17:52 <sportman> is there anyway to save ringtones from mms on the pre?
Jan 14 23:17:58 <sportman> cause i can't figure it out for the life of me
Jan 14 23:18:16 <destinal-wirc> threaded, works in mail reader and pre, replies
Jan 14 23:18:17 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: first type:game root shell script execution: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/224103-ntp-sync.html
Jan 14 23:18:55 <Rick-work> destinal-wirc  what I would actually advocate is a private news server with a decent web-front-end.  The old dnews / surgenews servers with their integrated web front ends were great, but netwin discontinued them.
Jan 14 23:19:22 <destinal-wirc> that sounds great
Jan 14 23:19:38 <Robi_> sportman: mms are received and stored on the /media/internal partition so just browse it when picking a ringtone and find it
Jan 14 23:19:49 <Robi_> it'll copy to the ringtones to be used afaik
Jan 14 23:20:11 <Rick-work> and it has a distinct advantage of being a noob filter.  If you can't figure out how to read and post to a private news server, what the hell are you doing here?
Jan 14 23:20:19 <Rick-work> sort of like IRC honestly.
Jan 14 23:20:30 <oilsworkn> lol
Jan 14 23:21:13 <xorg> ok , so now I've got samba mounting to work to a PC, but if the network connection is gone, is there a way to auto unmount or time it out?
Jan 14 23:21:30 <PuffTheMagic> Rick-work: there is a webfront end to the google group we have
Jan 14 23:21:30 <destinal-wirc> imo the web frontend isn't even a big deal though a pre newsreader would be nice :)
Jan 14 23:21:38 <PuffTheMagic> but its underutilized
Jan 14 23:21:51 <Rick-work> and since news2mail is bidirectional,  that solves mail issues.
Jan 14 23:22:17 <oilsworkn> they put new lights in the main office here
Jan 14 23:22:23 <oilsworkn> they're so incredibly bright
Jan 14 23:22:23 <destinal-wirc> google groups?  hmm
Jan 14 23:22:34 <Rick-work> google groups suck.
Jan 14 23:22:41 <Rick-work> a PRIVATE news server otoh,
Jan 14 23:22:47 <destinal-wirc> yeah
Jan 14 23:22:56 <oilsworkn> they're so bright, shadows are being casted into my well lit office through the door
Jan 14 23:23:08 <Toaster23> lol
Jan 14 23:24:01 <Robi_> shadowcaster lights
Jan 14 23:24:24 <Robi_> 2 < destinal-wirc> yeah
Jan 14 23:24:35 <Robi_> http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/224103-ntp-sync.html#post2154724
Jan 14 23:24:39 <oilsworkn> apparently they're more energy efficient, yet run hotter and brighter
Jan 14 23:24:47 <Robi_> free heating
Jan 14 23:24:48 <oilsworkn> which makes no sense to me
Jan 14 23:25:02 <Robi_> should install em in the floor
Jan 14 23:25:17 <oilsworkn> thats a bad idea
Jan 14 23:27:09 <destinal-wirc> rwhitby: interesting re the shellscript.  is precentral accepting type:game apps?
Jan 14 23:27:51 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: PreCentral does no checks other than the moderators there looking at it.
Jan 14 23:28:09 <Abyssul> Does anyone get a whining noise from their Pre when its on the touchstone (on silent) and you get a call?
Jan 14 23:28:57 <Rick-work> hmmmm
Jan 14 23:29:44 <destinal-wirc> do people still use filecoaster?
Jan 14 23:29:46 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: and neither do we for the PreCentral feed at the moment.
Jan 14 23:29:49 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: yep
Jan 14 23:29:57 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: and PreLoad
Jan 14 23:30:03 <Robi_> why
Jan 14 23:30:14 <Rick-work> The best forum software I know of actually still on the market is Akiva webboard.  But it's super expensive the last time I checked.  But by golly I like it, and it does everything anyone above requested.  :-(
Jan 14 23:31:01 <KEYofR> I don't but the biigest negative to filecoaster is probably moot now right since 1.3.5?
Jan 14 23:31:58 <Robi_> hmm how do you cancel a device reset
Jan 14 23:31:58 <oilsworkn> no offense to pregame, but i think filecoaster is kind of ugly
Jan 14 23:32:13 <Robi_> i tried to replace my palmdatabase and it wants to reset
Jan 14 23:33:12 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: I bet there are still 10x fileCoaster users compared to Preware users.
Jan 14 23:33:18 <KEYofR> I guess it's still good for arbitrary ipk's that you want installed correctly (pre/post scripts) without requiring webosquickinstall
Jan 14 23:33:36 * oilsworkn feels sorry for them
Jan 14 23:33:47 <rwhitby> KEYofR: fileCoaster does not do scripts
Jan 14 23:33:58 <oilsworkn> 10x? really?
Jan 14 23:33:59 <KEYofR> oh well there goes that!
Jan 14 23:34:01 <rwhitby> KEYofR: and that is the root of 50% of Preware installation problems
Jan 14 23:34:13 <oilsworkn> that seems... high
Jan 14 23:34:14 <Rick-work> nodnod
Jan 14 23:34:44 <Rick-work> oilsworkn  ok,  5x
Jan 14 23:34:49 <Rick-work> still true.
Jan 14 23:34:52 <Tibfib> Hmm...maybe downloads... but probably not users.
Jan 14 23:34:55 <oilsworkn> still seems high
Jan 14 23:35:07 <Abyssul> How is filecoaster better than preware?
Jan 14 23:35:14 <Rick-work> it isn't
Jan 14 23:35:20 <KEYofR> abys it's not
Jan 14 23:35:22 <Abyssul> I dont understand then..
Jan 14 23:35:24 <Abyssul> lol
Jan 14 23:35:26 <Rick-work> except that it can install from an arbitrary URL
Jan 14 23:35:33 <Rick-work> it's SIMPLE.
Jan 14 23:35:37 <oilsworkn> which isn't really all that useful anymore
Jan 14 23:35:42 <oilsworkn> now that everything is in feeds
Jan 14 23:35:45 <KEYofR> but what good is that if it doesn't install correctly?
Jan 14 23:35:55 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: fileCoaster has 214,645 total downloads, and is rated 4.8 at PreCentral - it is top of the homebrew gallery list.
Jan 14 23:35:58 <Tibfib> precentral.net says filecoaster has 200,000 downloads
Jan 14 23:36:12 <Tibfib> dang rod, beat me to it.
Jan 14 23:36:15 <oilsworkn> rwhitby: don't get me started on the rating discussion
Jan 14 23:36:18 <KEYofR> to me that means it doesn't count. it's WORSE than not being able to do something, not being able but claiming to.
Jan 14 23:36:30 <oilsworkn> and lets not point out that every single filecoaster install is from the pc gallery counting it
Jan 14 23:36:30 <Abyssul> I dont think thats an accurate indicator
Jan 14 23:36:43 <rwhitby> KEYofR: it installs 90% of homebrew apps perfectly.
Jan 14 23:36:55 <Rick-work> nodnod
Jan 14 23:36:55 <Tibfib> Why don't you incorporate a simple url downloader? Then it has nothing on preware...
Jan 14 23:36:58 <Tibfib> or is not worth it?
Jan 14 23:37:02 <rwhitby> Tibfib: security
Jan 14 23:37:26 <Rick-work> Tibfib  because someone would use it to download and install an advanced app that malware'ed your phone
Jan 14 23:37:31 <KEYofR> rwhitby, thats exactly what I mean about worse than not working. things that work well enough that you think they work, are worse than things that don't claim to work.
Jan 14 23:37:36 <oilsworkn> and what is 200k downloads anyways
Jan 14 23:37:42 <oilsworkn> 50k users with 4 recent updates?>
Jan 14 23:37:52 <oilsworkn> 20k with 10 updates?
Jan 14 23:37:55 <Tibfib> I guess that could be a problem... you could put a warning at the top saying beware of downloading malware
Jan 14 23:37:59 <Tibfib> or something like that
Jan 14 23:38:27 <rwhitby> Tibfib: Preware doesn't allow URL download for the same reason Palm doesn't.
Jan 14 23:38:29 * Rick-work going home
Jan 14 23:38:34 <Rick-work> bye all
Jan 14 23:38:37 <Tibfib> rick: Oh just got what you meant
Jan 14 23:38:38 <Abyssul> Why does the update all button still activate the script warning?
Jan 14 23:38:39 <oilsworkn> later rick
Jan 14 23:38:40 <Tibfib> makes sense guys.
Jan 14 23:38:50 <oilsworkn> Abyssul: because?
Jan 14 23:38:56 <rwhitby> Abyssul: depends whether what you are updating is signed or not.
Jan 14 23:38:56 <Abyssul> Just wondering :p
Jan 14 23:39:12 <rwhitby> Abyssul: what package triggered it?
Jan 14 23:39:28 <Abyssul> I don't remember, but i was updating 3 patches and they all triggered it
Jan 14 23:39:42 <Abyssul> Nascar hide app, umm... default to first page, and I forgot the last
Jan 14 23:40:09 <rwhitby> dBsooner: are we signing patches yet?
Jan 14 23:41:15 <rwhitby> hmm - looks like we are not.
Jan 14 23:42:45 * rwhitby fixes that
Jan 14 23:42:46 <destinal-wirc> rwhitby: I disagree regarding download from url
Jan 14 23:43:05 <destinal-wirc> I think, it's their phone
Jan 14 23:43:32 <destinal-wirc> we just need to validate it is user requesting iy
Jan 14 23:43:33 <destinal-wirc> it
Jan 14 23:43:51 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: there is no anti-virus safety net on the Pre
Jan 14 23:44:31 <destinal-wirc> sure but that's not really safe either
Jan 14 23:44:31 * Abyssul sends message to Kaspersky Mobile
Jan 14 23:44:39 <rwhitby> there is no way I am going to allow Preware to have the same reputation as Windows where malware is concerned.
Jan 14 23:44:41 <acydlord> hmm, i've noticed a slight flaw in the design of the battery cover on the pixi, the part where the power button is is soft rubber where it is supposed to clip onto the phone
Jan 14 23:44:56 <acydlord> so it doesnt get a snug fit on that corner
Jan 14 23:45:03 <Abyssul> Reputation that it's usually the user's fault?
Jan 14 23:45:12 <rwhitby> destinal-wirc: people can use WebOS Quick Install to install their malware, not Preware.
Jan 14 23:45:15 <destinal-wirc> we are too controlling
Jan 14 23:45:16 <Abyssul> I wish the Pre had the soft rubber
Jan 14 23:45:33 <acydlord> Abyssul, seconded
Jan 14 23:45:43 <destinal-wirc> rwhitby: lol
Jan 14 23:45:50 <Abyssul> Even if I could get someone to put it on there manually
Jan 14 23:45:53 <Abyssul> or a attachment
Jan 14 23:45:58 <Abyssul> like aftermarket
Jan 14 23:45:59 <acydlord> just that one corner on the pixi should have been more rigid, as it is now the corner with the power button is peeling back
Jan 14 23:46:39 <acydlord> Abyssul, touchstone back does a decent job, I'm still looking into getting some egrips for key friction areas
Jan 14 23:47:23 <acydlord> also one of the cheapo hong kong silicone cases for the pre is pretty thin and makes it pretty grippy
Jan 14 23:48:02 <Abyssul> Ive played so much Pokemon and Quake on my phone that the K button on my phone is eroding
Jan 14 23:48:26 <Abyssul> Why did I say "on my phone" twice? lol
Jan 14 23:48:32 <acydlord> lol, thats no good
Jan 14 23:48:37 <acydlord> recursion
Jan 14 23:51:30 <Abyssul> I gotta go to sprint for a new sleeping bag for my pre :(
Jan 14 23:52:50 <acydlord> i quit using that when i got the hip case, go to a repair center and you should be able to score the bag with no issue
Jan 14 23:53:10 <Abyssul> Yea I figured as much. Wouldn't a regular sprint store work?
Jan 14 23:54:54 <Abyssul> Wish the stupid warrenty sticker wasnt over the screw in the back so I could tighten it...
Jan 14 23:55:00 <KEYofR> I could never tolerate any cases for phones. I just use them directly and let them get beat up. I never have them longer than a year anyways since, the last 3 phones were treos/centros that the audio jack alwasy wears out anyway
Jan 14 23:55:13 <Abyssul> KEYofR: Agreed
Jan 14 23:55:38 <Abyssul> I like the natural look, until the touchstone backs become custom designed and rubber gripped :)
Jan 14 23:55:42 <egaudet-wirc> I don't like cluttering my pockets
Jan 14 23:55:49 <acydlord> Abyssul, the repair stores are easier to score free stuff off of, they have bins of it from returned units
Jan 14 23:55:57 <egaudet-wirc> belt case is requirement for me
Jan 14 23:55:59 <KEYofR> pres already pretty scratched up but not in any way that matters to function. the convenience is worth more to me than the glass-perfect new look
Jan 14 23:56:20 <acydlord> my pre sits in a leather holster on my right hip, the pixi in a leather holster on the left
Jan 14 23:56:28 <bpadalino> i use mine naked, and no scratches ..
Jan 14 23:56:45 <acydlord> it's easier to get at them there and then stick them back in the holster when im done using them
Jan 14 23:56:47 <KEYofR> egaudet: a holster would be ok. to me that's not a "case"
Jan 14 23:56:48 <Abyssul> I scratched my Pre so badly when it was dragged by a bench at the gym
Jan 14 23:56:56 <bpadalino> ouch
Jan 14 23:57:07 <acydlord> my pre has a pit in the screen and a crack on the right bezel
Jan 14 23:57:10 <Abyssul> pretty ugly :(
Jan 14 23:57:19 <Abyssul> but at least its not white anymore with the nail polish
Jan 14 23:57:21 <hemna> that's why I bought the "insurance" plan
Jan 14 23:57:27 <Abyssul> I have the insurance plan
Jan 14 23:57:27 <oilsworkn> i dropped my pre down a flight of cement steps
Jan 14 23:57:33 <Abyssul> but Im not paying 100 bucks to get it replaced
Jan 14 23:57:35 <hemna> my screen has a smudge on it that won't go away
Jan 14 23:57:41 <KEYofR> But, I already have a lether letherman holster and half the time a mag-lite. I do not really want to be BatMan
Jan 14 23:57:46 <oilsworkn> didn't scratch the screen
Jan 14 23:57:51 <hemna> I'll eventually just spike it on the ground and replace it
Jan 14 23:58:03 <KEYofR> where did my A's go in leather, twice ? heh
Jan 14 23:58:28 <CoolMatty> I am shocked and appauled at all the vbulletin talk earlier
Jan 14 23:58:29 <oilsworkn> KEYofBATman
Jan 14 23:58:36 <CoolMatty> is someone gonna cough up the money for a license on that? :p
Jan 14 23:58:38 <acydlord> oilsworkn, mine has taken several falls, the one that put a pit in the screen was onto rough asphalt. honestly i was especting much worse damage
Jan 14 23:58:52 <oilsworkn> its got a pit in the touchstone back piece
Jan 14 23:58:52 <oilsworkn> thats it
Jan 14 23:59:19 <acydlord> KEYofR, i've gotten to the point of contemplating buying the urbantool gadget holster
Jan 14 23:59:28 <oilsworkn> oh, and some scuffs on the bottom edge of the screen
Jan 14 23:59:30 <oilsworkn> for whatever reason
Jan 14 23:59:51 <acydlord> i feel like the batman of geekdom sometimes since i also have a hip bag for my netbook
Jan 15 00:00:03 <oilsworkn> screen slider piece that is
Jan 15 00:00:12 <acydlord> oilsworkn, from operating the slider with grit on your fingers probably
Jan 15 00:00:14 <KEYofR> acyd min's chipped around the edge and a crack in the face in a corner from falls. when something damages actual function I'll go get another.
Jan 15 00:00:20 <oilsworkn> no, its from the fall
Jan 15 00:00:25 <acydlord> ahh
Jan 15 00:00:26 <oilsworkn> i just don't understand how they got there
Jan 15 00:00:30 <acydlord> magic
Jan 15 00:00:30 <KEYofR> acyd: googling that up....
Jan 15 00:00:32 <oilsworkn> being hte part that goes up
Jan 15 00:00:37 <oilsworkn> not the part that hangs out
Jan 15 00:01:02 <oilsworkn> oh and the battery door + battery + mcgyver piece of paper for battery went flying
Jan 15 00:01:10 <acydlord> weird, when mine hits face down usually the little tab in the ear piece takes the hit
Jan 15 00:01:32 <oilsworkn> idk
Jan 15 00:01:39 <oilsworkn> it was a freak accident
Jan 15 00:01:45 <oilsworkn> went to pull it out of my pocket
Jan 15 00:01:49 <oilsworkn> and the pocket got like bunched up
Jan 15 00:01:55 <oilsworkn> and the pre flew out not in my hand
Jan 15 00:02:06 <oilsworkn> i have no explaination
Jan 15 00:02:31 <oilsworkn> my hand was somewhat damp
Jan 15 00:02:40 <oilsworkn> maybe that had something to do with it
Jan 15 00:02:46 <acydlord> lol, i had that happen a few times, its the only time the pre falls at normal speed, usually it does a slo-mo number
Jan 15 00:02:46 <CoolMatty> I've started a channel at: #webos-forums for those who want to talk about development and setup of the forums, so we don't off-topic this chat to death
Jan 15 00:02:47 <oilsworkn> anyways
Jan 15 00:03:10 <acydlord> CoolMatty, we do have #webos-watercooler for offtopic as well :p
Jan 15 00:03:21 <oilsworkn> my old phone wouldn't die even when i wanted it to
Jan 15 00:03:28 <oilsworkn> it had been driven over before
Jan 15 00:03:37 <oilsworkn> one time it broke in half
Jan 15 00:03:40 <acydlord> oilsworkn, i still have a nokia 6220 that wont die
Jan 15 00:03:41 <oilsworkn> and i super glued it back together
Jan 15 00:03:49 <oilsworkn> it was an lg vx6000
Jan 15 00:03:52 <CoolMatty> ah okay, I'll use the watercooler then :p
Jan 15 00:04:02 <oilsworkn> it had this big hole in the top
Jan 15 00:04:06 <oilsworkn> where plastic was plain missing
Jan 15 00:04:16 <oilsworkn> filled with pocket lint
Jan 15 00:04:16 <acydlord> ahh the vx6000, that thing is pretty solid
Jan 15 00:04:22 <oilsworkn> yeah
Jan 15 00:04:29 <oilsworkn> the front screen had multiple deep gouges in it
Jan 15 00:04:53 <oilsworkn> the battery was also super-glued in place
Jan 15 00:04:53 <acydlord> the bezel on that screen is like 1/8" thick
Jan 15 00:05:05 <oilsworkn> due to all the little tabs that hold it in place being busted
Jan 15 00:05:16 <oilsworkn> lol
Jan 15 00:05:20 <Adora> acydlord: I've had my eye on http://www.podbelt.com (sorry, took me a few mins to find it)
Jan 15 00:06:00 * oilsworkn sees no belt on that page
Jan 15 00:06:09 <oilsworkn> oh, there it is
Jan 15 00:06:12 <oilsworkn> >:)
Jan 15 00:06:15 <Adora> heheheh
Jan 15 00:06:41 <acydlord> Adora, that one is pretty indiana jones, i have this presently for when i need to carry all my mobiles in one place http://www.urbantool.com/hq/#collection/6-bags/load-8-sb
Jan 15 00:06:49 <KEYofR> those are some big shiny round red belts
Jan 15 00:07:17 <oilsworkn> lol, those aren't the belts key
Jan 15 00:07:40 <acydlord> lol, thats probably what all the geeks at AVN rock instead of the fanny packs of CES
Jan 15 00:07:48 <Adora> acydlord: I like the colors the urbantool bag comes in
Jan 15 00:08:02 <Adora> I definitely need to get something
Jan 15 00:08:09 <acydlord> Adora, yeah, i got mine when they only had black
Jan 15 00:08:21 <Adora> I'm up to...4 phones, with one more coming in the next day or two
Jan 15 00:08:34 <KEYofR> ok that urbantool thing is not for me
Jan 15 00:08:42 <oilsworkn> 4 phones?
Jan 15 00:08:52 <Adora> oh, 5 with one more on the way
Jan 15 00:09:08 <Adora> I forgot about that pixi stashed in the drawer waiting for testing
Jan 15 00:09:09 <oilsworkn> i dont even know what to say to that
Jan 15 00:09:11 <Adora> I thought I gave it away
Jan 15 00:09:17 <acydlord> ive been looking at this http://www.urbantool.com/hq/#collection/5-holsters/load-3-hh or this http://www.urbantool.com/hq/#collection/5-holsters/load-2-buh
Jan 15 00:10:08 <acydlord> Adora, if it's a pixi plus you can still give it away ;)
Jan 15 00:10:19 <KEYofR> ok now that secret agent holster one has possibilities
Jan 15 00:10:59 <Adora> acydlord: I'll have one eventually, but I requested a pre+ for my new personal device
Jan 15 00:11:14 <oilsworkn> it ties to the leg like a gun holster
Jan 15 00:11:15 <oilsworkn> lol
Jan 15 00:11:18 <KEYofR> can't wait for security guys trained to spot exactly those sorts of bulges to tackle me down and uncover my Sony Vaio P
Jan 15 00:11:20 <Adora> if the pixi+ just had the same camera, I'd have gotten it
Jan 15 00:11:24 <oilsworkn> those things are ridiculous
Jan 15 00:11:28 <oilsworkn> i would rather wear a fanny pack
Jan 15 00:11:36 <acydlord> Adora, strangely i prefer the pixi over the pre. the formfactor really cinches it
Jan 15 00:12:09 <acydlord> KEYofR, one of my chick friends has the shoulder holster, it fits a sony viiv or samsung u810 quite well
Jan 15 00:12:56 * oilsworkn would rather just duct tape a phone to his pants leg then wear one of those things
Jan 15 00:14:04 <KEYofR> I'd rather wear one of those than carry everything in my hands through an airport or train
Jan 15 00:14:31 <KEYofR> thats probablyt about the only time though
Jan 15 00:14:50 <acydlord> I use mine quite often at conferences and events when I need fast easy access to devices
Jan 15 00:14:52 <rwhitby> Adora: i only have 3 phones.  I'm jealous of your 5.
Jan 15 00:15:03 <cryptk-ppre> so my neighbor just went to sprint to get a pre
Jan 15 00:15:07 <KEYofR> yeah cons, good idea
Jan 15 00:15:12 <acydlord> i only have 3 as well, centro, pixi, pre
Jan 15 00:15:15 <Adora> rwhitby: I have google voice forward to all of them
Jan 15 00:15:18 <Adora> which is AWESOME
Jan 15 00:15:34 <oilsworkn> so someone calls, and they all ring?
Jan 15 00:15:35 <bpadalino> 5 phones is quite a number
Jan 15 00:15:42 * rwhitby imagines Adora's cube when all 5 ring at once
Jan 15 00:15:42 <Adora> oilsworkn:  yeah
Jan 15 00:15:48 <CoolMatty> hnnng
Jan 15 00:15:51 <oilsworkn> isn't that like having too many clocks that chime on the hour in the same room?
Jan 15 00:15:53 <Adora> it's like a symphony
Jan 15 00:15:53 <CoolMatty> $200 for vbulletin
Jan 15 00:15:55 <acydlord> lol, i have some strange google voice round robin since i have 2 google voice numbers and a standard sip number
Jan 15 00:15:55 <bpadalino> how do you choose which one to pick up ?
Jan 15 00:16:06 <rwhitby> Adora: all different ringtones?
Jan 15 00:16:17 <Adora> rwhitby: all the default ringtone
Jan 15 00:16:22 <acydlord> CoolMatty, phpbb got voted down?
Jan 15 00:16:23 <cryptk-ppre> CoolMatty: phpbb is free
Jan 15 00:16:32 <Adora> bpadalino:  it's...more complicated than I thought it would be
Jan 15 00:16:34 <CoolMatty> no one seemed to talk about PHPBB :p
Jan 15 00:16:37 <rwhitby> doh!  you could do a barbershop quartet with them, plus a spare.
Jan 15 00:16:38 <oilsworkn> the lights in the town dim when she plugs them all in to charge
Jan 15 00:16:41 <Adora> I'm usually so startled by all the noise that I get confused and miss the call
Jan 15 00:16:49 <cryptk-ppre> I personally prefer phpbb
Jan 15 00:16:59 <DrFunk> rwhitby: you around ?
Jan 15 00:17:05 <AnOutsider> vb is more powerful, but fi you're going to use the extra features no need to buy it
Jan 15 00:17:07 <rwhitby> yep
Jan 15 00:17:18 <acydlord> i usually dont answer my cell when it rings, i wish they had reverse phone plans where you just pay for data and then any minutes you use
Jan 15 00:17:22 <DrFunk> you get my email
Jan 15 00:17:30 <CoolMatty> I'm not a fan of phpbb myself but smf isn't working out
Jan 15 00:17:37 <Adora> isn't phpbb hella insecure?
Jan 15 00:17:39 <CoolMatty> its installer doesn't even work right :/
Jan 15 00:17:45 <oilsworkn> CoolMatty: code your own forums
Jan 15 00:17:47 <CoolMatty> (smf)
Jan 15 00:17:55 <acydlord> a vanilla install of phpbb is hella insecure
Jan 15 00:17:55 <cryptk-ppre> indeed,and most of the stuff that vb does that phpbb doesn't do... there are mods out for phpbb to add it in
Jan 15 00:18:13 <DrFunk> a lot of mods
Jan 15 00:18:14 <cryptk-ppre> acydlord: it is easily closed up
Jan 15 00:18:29 <acydlord> cryptk-ppre, i know, thats why i said a vanilla install :)
Jan 15 00:18:55 <DrFunk> rwhitby: so you did get my email or no ?
Jan 15 00:18:55 <cryptk-ppre> yeah, but it is trivial to lock down phpbb
Jan 15 00:19:18 <cryptk-ppre> anyway, back to NFS... lol
Jan 15 00:19:35 <CoolMatty> bleh
Jan 15 00:19:38 <CoolMatty> so phpbb or vb >.>
Jan 15 00:19:45 <CoolMatty> that is a hard decision
Jan 15 00:19:51 <acydlord> CoolMatty, phpbb for price
Jan 15 00:20:05 <acydlord> you can always migrate the database later if vb is needed
Jan 15 00:20:07 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: do either meet all the requirements I listed?
Jan 15 00:20:21 <CoolMatty> can you give me a shortlist of what those are, rwhitby :p
Jan 15 00:20:32 <acydlord> phpbb has addons that will share the user database for the wiki also
Jan 15 00:20:41 <CoolMatty> so does vb
Jan 15 00:20:50 <CoolMatty> vb is not exactly impossible to mod :p
Jan 15 00:20:56 <CoolMatty> (actually it's stupid easy)
Jan 15 00:21:04 <acydlord> yeah, but it's not free :p
Jan 15 00:21:24 <CoolMatty> right. like I said, I don't mind the money if the site is actually used. but yeah :p
Jan 15 00:21:41 <CoolMatty> but I'm trying to cater to the regulars here, so I'm interested in what rwhitby needs for example :p
Jan 15 00:22:06 <oilsworkn> for example: make oil waffles
Jan 15 00:22:50 <acydlord> cookies.sql > oven
Jan 15 00:22:52 <KEYofR> the bigger problem with pay software isn't the price. its the reproduceability
Jan 15 00:23:21 <CoolMatty> reproduceability? what?
Jan 15 00:23:26 <KEYofR> who keeps the serial number, what happens in a year when it needs to be set up on a new box and you're not around etc..
Jan 15 00:24:00 <CoolMatty> obviously you'd trust me. :p but I can give out the info for just about everything.
Jan 15 00:24:04 <CoolMatty> to some select members
Jan 15 00:24:29 <oilsworkn> so, rwhitby?
Jan 15 00:24:46 <rwhitby> KEYofR: exactly.  Every part of webos-internals.org and preware.org can be replicated by anyone using free software on their own box, and we want to keep it that way.
Jan 15 00:25:04 <CoolMatty> if that's an issue we won't use vb then
Jan 15 00:25:05 <CoolMatty> simple as that
Jan 15 00:25:10 <oilsworkn> lol
Jan 15 00:25:24 <rwhitby> it's a single point of failure issue.
Jan 15 00:25:29 <oilsworkn> wait, what are these forums for?
Jan 15 00:25:31 <KEYofR> exactly
Jan 15 00:25:53 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: I know, I understand your position on the matter. If I die you have no way to recover the license for vb
Jan 15 00:26:05 <rwhitby> the only single point of failure we have at the moment is the domain registrations.  everything else has at least two people in different geographic locations able to continue the project.
Jan 15 00:26:59 <KEYofR> I love that letter the peruvial senator wrote a few years ago about whey they made it law that all important government stuff would only use open source software. the main reasons were safety, garanteed access, future-proof, etc, not price
Jan 15 00:27:06 <KEYofR> peruvian
Jan 15 00:27:12 <rwhitby> in the next few months we'll also have geographic separation of live and backup servers too (one in Oregon, one in Hawaii)
Jan 15 00:27:40 <CoolMatty> but if we don't go vb, do you forsee any other issues, rwhitby. do you have any other requests that would be made
Jan 15 00:27:54 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: did you see my list in the backlog from earlier?
Jan 15 00:28:07 <CoolMatty> no and it's lost out of my backlog already
Jan 15 00:28:49 <destinal-wirc> CoolMatty: that's what the log url in the topic is for :)
Jan 15 00:29:13 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: Jan 14 23:07:37  in http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals.txt
Jan 15 00:29:16 <CoolMatty> I'm looking :p
Jan 15 00:29:40 <psykoz> I've always liked smf over vbulletin
Jan 15 00:29:44 <psykoz> http://www.simplemachines.org/
Jan 15 00:29:47 <rwhitby> until Jan 14 23:12:20
Jan 15 00:30:17 <CoolMatty> ok
Jan 15 00:30:36 <CoolMatty> psykoz: at least smf2 has failed to install thus far (no errors, simply loops without doing anything). that doesn't garner my confidence.
Jan 15 00:30:46 * rwhitby bbl
Jan 15 00:31:05 * oilsworkn goes home
Jan 15 00:31:18 <CoolMatty> okay I'm going to mark these off
Jan 15 00:31:56 <KEYofR> I understand the desire to use anything but the universal default that everyone uses
Jan 15 00:43:09 <dBsooner> rwhitby: did you fix patch signing?
Jan 15 00:43:21 <dBsooner> rwhitby, egaudet: Where do we stand on AUPT?
Jan 15 00:44:19 <Abyssul> I dont understand why the artist series back covers are limited quantity?
Jan 15 00:44:38 <acydlord> becuase its hard to print things?
Jan 15 00:44:40 <egaudet> stand on the T, the A is kind of awkward.  Although I rather you not stand on it at all
Jan 15 00:45:17 <dBsooner> because they are "artists" and 'artists' don't like non-limited edition things?
Jan 15 00:45:24 <dBsooner> or because palm wants to sell them for more money/
Jan 15 00:45:40 <acydlord> probably both
Jan 15 00:45:44 <dBsooner> or because people think since they are 'limited edition' they might be worth more money? or be worth money some day?
Jan 15 00:46:02 <acydlord> they are supposed to make your pixi "stand out from the crowd"
Jan 15 00:46:03 <dBsooner> I got some limited edition wheaties baseball cards
Jan 15 00:46:13 <dBsooner> All because of the "limited edition"
Jan 15 00:47:42 <acydlord> i'm trying to get natasha wescoat to paint me a custom battery cover for my pixi
Jan 15 00:47:58 <acydlord> i could sell that for like a brajillion dollars
Jan 15 00:50:22 <dBsooner> get porn stars to "do their thing" .. "leave somethign behind" on one.. then seal it in acrylic
Jan 15 00:50:30 <dBsooner> that would be worth an octillion
Jan 15 00:50:42 <Adora> dBsooner: eww.
Jan 15 00:50:48 <dBsooner> ROFL
Jan 15 00:50:53 * rwhitby -> #webos-watercooler ...
Jan 15 00:50:59 <dBsooner> I knew Adora would wake to the word "porn"
Jan 15 00:51:07 <dBsooner> oh shoot.. I thought this was the watercooler
Jan 15 00:51:07 <Adora> >_>
Jan 15 00:51:12 <dBsooner> Muh bad.
Jan 15 00:51:13 <KEYofR> adora must be a girl
Jan 15 00:51:16 <KEYofR> heh
Jan 15 00:51:30 <dBsooner> Adora is no girl.. she is a beautiful woman.
Jan 15 00:51:52 <dBsooner> And shouldn't be exposed to such dirty men as us.
Jan 15 00:51:55 <Mousey> girl
Jan 15 00:52:04 <Mousey> dBsooner: this is the internet
Jan 15 00:52:18 <KEYofR> there ya go. can't hide the "eww"
Jan 15 00:52:19 <dBsooner> not according to rwhitby.. this is #webos-internals
Jan 15 00:52:32 <dBsooner> out "there" is the interwebs
Jan 15 00:52:57 <acydlord> i still need to submit the app WEBOSPALMPREPIXI++ to the palm app catalogue just for Adora
Jan 15 00:53:11 <Adora> acydlord: BANT
Jan 15 00:53:21 <acydlord> lol
Jan 15 00:53:27 <Mousey> dBsooner: i refer you to Rule #30 of the Internet
Jan 15 00:54:00 <acydlord> Mousey, Rule 34 on palm devices!
Jan 15 00:54:27 <Mousey> acydlord: look for an app called Pocket Party.
Jan 15 00:54:38 <Mousey> acydlord: and you'll have it
Jan 15 00:54:41 <acydlord> lol
Jan 15 00:54:52 <dBsooner> I need to submit my "One App to Rule Them All" app.
Jan 15 00:55:04 <Mousey> dBsooner: you're porting LDAP??
Jan 15 00:55:10 <Mousey> ^_^
Jan 15 00:55:11 <dBsooner> nope.. better
Jan 15 00:55:21 <acydlord> I always refer to my Harmony remote as the "One remote that rules them all"
Jan 15 00:55:39 <dBsooner> Harmony remotes are da shiz.
Jan 15 00:55:49 <dBsooner> And in my job.. 'Not supported'
Jan 15 00:55:49 * Mousey googles
Jan 15 00:55:53 <Kyusaku> love my harmony
Jan 15 00:55:57 <Adora> I want one of the new samsung remotes
Jan 15 00:56:04 <acydlord> yeah, i used to work for logitech in the harmony dept
Jan 15 00:56:09 <dBsooner> My Pre is my remote
Jan 15 00:56:14 <dBsooner> I just need to submit it to the app cata
Jan 15 00:56:15 <Adora> and a 8000 series tv was gonna be my next big purchase
Jan 15 00:56:17 <acydlord> i have this lovely harmony 900 that i beta tested :)
Jan 15 00:56:22 <Adora> but now I have to wait for the 9000 series
Jan 15 00:56:23 <Adora> FML
Jan 15 00:56:35 <acydlord> i'm getting a 1080p projector with my tax return :)
Jan 15 00:57:04 * dBsooner is happy enough with his Sony Bravia XBR series 1080p 240Hz
Jan 15 00:57:15 <rwhitby> dBsooner: I'm getting a patch reject on the really silent ringer switch patch.  just an fyi - I'm going to do an EPR and see what conflicts with it.
Jan 15 00:57:17 <dBsooner> although.. I want a new LCD
Jan 15 00:57:22 <acydlord> right now i'm using an acer monitor as a tv
Jan 15 00:57:35 <dBsooner> rwhitby: He submitted a new one
Jan 15 00:57:44 <dBsooner> its available to admins via the admin portal
Jan 15 00:57:47 <dBsooner> I haven't approved it yet
Jan 15 00:57:48 <rwhitby> oh, there's an update?
Jan 15 00:57:51 <dBsooner> si
Jan 15 00:58:01 <yoshiness> I'm having Preware installation issues
Jan 15 00:58:05 <rwhitby> ok, I'll wait then
Jan 15 00:58:26 <dBsooner> when are we going to turn on AUPT feeds?
Jan 15 00:59:05 <rwhitby> dBsooner: when three people have proven a successful update, and we fix update all logic in preware
Jan 15 00:59:16 <dBsooner> hmm
Jan 15 00:59:19 <dBsooner> hurry up 1.4
Jan 15 00:59:29 <dBsooner> or i guess we could roll back to 1.3.1
Jan 15 00:59:31 * Mousey taps foot, checks watch
Jan 15 00:59:37 <acydlord> Adora, whose bum do i need to light a fire under at palm to have my timestamp patch implemented officially? I throw up a little in my mouth every time i update my pre and look at the messener app :p
Jan 15 01:00:01 <yoshiness> I have a Pixi that fails to install the Package Manager service
Jan 15 01:00:06 <yoshiness> Help?
Jan 15 01:00:09 <dBsooner> acydlord: which one is yours?
Jan 15 01:00:18 <Adora> acydlord: chuq
Jan 15 01:00:20 <dBsooner> yoshiness: how are you trying to install it?
Jan 15 01:00:23 <acydlord> dBsooner, clean patch is mine
Jan 15 01:00:23 <rwhitby> yoshiness: http://install.preware.org/ <- at which step does it fail?
Jan 15 01:00:23 <egaudet> and when we have lsdiff
Jan 15 01:00:31 <dBsooner> acydlord: mmmm.. my favorite
Jan 15 01:00:33 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: okay I've gone through all the things you wanted in the forum
Jan 15 01:00:37 <acydlord> dBsooner, mine also =x
Jan 15 01:00:43 <Adora> but only because I lol'd thinking of him hopping around the office with a flaming butt
Jan 15 01:01:32 <dBsooner> brb.. switching to home laptop.
Jan 15 01:01:36 <acydlord> lol, if you guys ever need to hire a webos evangelist, lemme know
Jan 15 01:01:39 <yoshiness> Using WebOS Quick Install, I install Package Manager Service, and Preware from the dropdown list. It goes without noticeable failure. I try launching Preware, but it won't go cause it says Package Manager Service isn't install.
Jan 15 01:02:01 <acydlord> yoshiness, have you rebooted the phone since?
Jan 15 01:02:11 <yoshiness> Several times
Jan 15 01:02:16 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: here's the results: 1. Does support RSS feeds in some manner (in relation to new posts). rss feeds of subscribed threads may require a mod.  2. SMF and VB keeps very good record of your read posts. You can mark forums as read. Same with threads.  3. Styles won't be a problem.  4. (rick's original idea) You can subscribe to threads and get emails no problem. Replying via email is much more difficult (doesn't seem to b
Jan 15 01:02:55 <rwhitby> yoshiness: what version of wosqi?
Jan 15 01:03:08 <yoshiness> 2.6
Jan 15 01:03:20 <rwhitby> bzzt - you need 2.96 for 1.3.5
Jan 15 01:03:36 <rwhitby> yoshiness: does http://install.preware.org/ not say that?
Jan 15 01:04:38 <rwhitby> yoshiness: hmm - looks like I need to get Craig to make that more prominent.
Jan 15 01:05:01 <Kyusaku> I never get how people stick with severely outdated versions of WOSQI, it's like a 1meg download and doesn't install anything
Jan 15 01:05:19 <Mousey>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               what?!
Jan 15 01:05:29 <Mousey> and have to download something?
Jan 15 01:05:30 <acydlord> i check for a new version each time before running it
Jan 15 01:05:34 <Kyusaku> I guess what makes it some simple is what makes ppl so lazy
Jan 15 01:05:35 <Mousey> ...where'd all that space come from?
Jan 15 01:05:41 <Kyusaku> some=so
Jan 15 01:05:45 <acydlord> %20 the final frontier
Jan 15 01:06:33 <acydlord> agh, sugarCRM is so huge to ftp
Jan 15 01:07:56 <Abyssul> When they demoed The Sim 3, they Pre they used was a Pre Plus
Jan 15 01:08:12 <acydlord> Abyssul, same with need for speed
Jan 15 01:08:49 <Abyssul> Yea
Jan 15 01:09:00 <Abyssul> I prefer the center button
Jan 15 01:10:05 <acydlord> i dont, i like the awesome knight rider look of the led bar on the pixi
Jan 15 01:10:49 <Abyssul> The center button will be able to be hacked to allow multiple uses than the stupid function it has now
Jan 15 01:11:03 <Abyssul> Plus the LED is more noticeable with the center button
Jan 15 01:11:10 <jacques> yeah it seems totally wasted now
Jan 15 01:12:20 <CoolMatty> :/
Jan 15 01:12:38 <CoolMatty> what's wrong with removing the button?
Jan 15 01:12:44 <CoolMatty> the lack of button doesn't remove functionality
Jan 15 01:13:01 <rwhitby> it will leave a big hole in my Pre if I remove it ..
Jan 15 01:13:05 <psykoz> I prefer the center button
Jan 15 01:13:09 <jacques> it just proves the current button has no function
Jan 15 01:13:09 <Abyssul> rwhitby: rofl
Jan 15 01:13:11 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: har.
Jan 15 01:13:22 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: and comments on what I said above on the forums?
Jan 15 01:13:24 <Abyssul> jacques: but wait until we can change the function
Jan 15 01:13:28 <Kyusaku> the button actually messes with my swiping I had to turn off advanced gestures because of it
Jan 15 01:13:34 <yoshiness> I don't prefer the center button. I used to use it, but now that I've learned the finger gestures, I don't need it anymore.
Jan 15 01:13:36 <yoshiness> :)
Jan 15 01:13:40 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: you got cut off by line length limit
Jan 15 01:13:48 <psykoz> advanced gestures is just one new gesture, how is that advanced? :)
Jan 15 01:13:50 <acydlord> i just swipe above the button
Jan 15 01:13:52 <jacques> Abyssul: then it will be cool
Jan 15 01:13:53 <psykoz> gesture_count+1 = advanced?
Jan 15 01:13:56 <psykoz> that's just stupid ;)
Jan 15 01:14:13 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: whereat, I'll paste the rest
Jan 15 01:14:26 <rwhitby> the only thing I use the center button for is to wake the device when it's asleep with the keyboard deployed. it's too hard to get to the power button in that configuration
Jan 15 01:14:43 <jacques> i just hit space
Jan 15 01:14:51 <Kyusaku> lol agreed, but my finger hits the button half the time when I tried doing that full swipe
Jan 15 01:14:57 <rwhitby> CoolMatty:  ... (doesn't seem to b
Jan 15 01:15:15 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: to be done in SMF), but VB can do it via a mod.  5. No ads at all.   6. (rick's request) SMF and VB do threaded views.
Jan 15 01:15:17 <rwhitby> jacques: doh! didn't think of that.
Jan 15 01:15:17 <CoolMatty> there :p
Jan 15 01:15:26 <acydlord> rwhitby, tapping that location does the same effect on the models without the physical button
Jan 15 01:15:39 <Kyusaku> plus that coating on the button doesn't last very long
Jan 15 01:15:58 <acydlord> they just made the tactile button a capacitive one
Jan 15 01:16:10 <Abyssul> really?
Jan 15 01:16:14 <Abyssul> Makes sense
Jan 15 01:16:35 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: a key thing for me is rss feed of new threads (not new posts)
Jan 15 01:16:55 <rwhitby> since I go to an RSS reader, not 50 forums sites, each day
Jan 15 01:17:01 <CoolMatty> honestly something that minor I could probably mod myself if a mod doesn't already exist, rwhitby
Jan 15 01:17:01 <Abyssul> I see the LED slot in the Pre PLus
Jan 15 01:17:09 <psykoz> I hate forums =[  they're clunky, they do have to have RSS feeds or I can't use them
Jan 15 01:17:14 <psykoz> or email digest
Jan 15 01:18:00 <rwhitby> BTW, I'm still not saying whether I support or don't support the idea of another forum in general, just giving requirements for a hypothetical one.
Jan 15 01:18:32 <CoolMatty> I think the forum is just one aspect of getting more PR for webosinternals altogether
Jan 15 01:18:43 <CoolMatty> it combined with a blog about new developments and new projects
Jan 15 01:18:47 <psykoz> I personally think precentral has this monopolised, why reinvent the wheel (?)
Jan 15 01:18:54 <CoolMatty> so the left hand knows what the right is doing
Jan 15 01:19:20 <CoolMatty> psykoz: because precentral seems to be focused on official development and user support
Jan 15 01:19:25 <rwhitby> psykoz: we have a WebOS Internals sub-forum there, and I'm sure we could get other forums added if we wanted to.
Jan 15 01:19:31 <acydlord> I justed used to use tikiwiki when i needed wiki+forums+news pages
Jan 15 01:19:38 <psykoz> rwhitby, I was just about to ask if we could just get them to create a forum for us
Jan 15 01:19:45 <psykoz> but thank you for reading my mind ;)
Jan 15 01:19:59 <rwhitby> psykoz: but I'm staying switzerland in this discussion :-)
Jan 15 01:20:14 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: others expressed possible conflicts of interest with precentral
Jan 15 01:20:44 <CoolMatty> that's what started this discussion of a blog and/or forum in the first place
Jan 15 01:20:51 <psykoz> as I said, my really own opinion on this is resource use, and when you expend resources if you're reinventing the wheel rather than using the ones available it's typically an inefficiency
Jan 15 01:21:19 <CoolMatty> psykoz: I would agree if it were a regular internals developer who'd be doing work on the site instead of on a project :p
Jan 15 01:21:21 <psykoz> Now if you have a legitimate use case for a wheel that needs 8 lugs and no one will make a wheel with 8 lugs, then you have to create
Jan 15 01:21:57 <rwhitby> CoolMatty: that's why I'm staying switzerland - I won't be the one doing any of the work.
Jan 15 01:22:21 <CoolMatty> and that's why I'm offering, since it's something I could do to help :p
Jan 15 01:24:32 <KEYofR> you really have to stay open source. consider your audience has a high fraction of people who are loath to invest in anything that isn't garanteed to always be available.
Jan 15 01:25:06 <KEYofR> so what good is it if vb is so cool, if the best developers dont' want to post on it
Jan 15 01:25:28 <CoolMatty> well, there is one point to be made: precentral uses vb already :p
Jan 15 01:25:50 <KEYofR> who cares about precentral?
Jan 15 01:25:53 <CoolMatty> and speaking of, there's no guarantee precentral won't close that down either, I believe
Jan 15 01:25:59 <CoolMatty> KEYofR: read up :p
Jan 15 01:26:50 <Abyssul> Why does Palm put emphasis on OTA updates? Don't most smartphoens have that?
Jan 15 01:26:55 <KEYofR> now what would help that is, is the data in vb migratable to something else? if the data is garanteed to always be available, thats almost as good.
Jan 15 01:27:37 <CoolMatty> there are ways to export the db to smf I believe
Jan 15 01:27:42 <twik> when has palm "put emphasis on ota updates"?  .. besides just doing them???
Jan 15 01:28:02 <CoolMatty> twik: every keynote they have
Jan 15 01:28:16 <twik> ahh, i guess i don't see that
Jan 15 01:28:23 <twik> but i like the style at least
Jan 15 01:28:42 <KEYofR> precentral is a privately owned site that can do whatever they like and we are free to use or not use it. I would not use a proprietary product for a community project
Jan 15 01:28:44 <twik> ota updates across the board is nice... but they're not quite "all the way" there yet
Jan 15 01:29:28 <twik> treocentral was the foundation of smartphones if you ask me
Jan 15 01:29:44 <twik> why wouldn't precentral take the lead with webos?
Jan 15 01:29:59 <acydlord> Abyssul, apple doesnt have that
Jan 15 01:30:03 <KEYofR> even though something like this necessarily has to have a single maintainer. now if you're proposing simply to offer a service, not start and maintain a community project, that's different. use whatever you like same as precentral or any other web site  does.
Jan 15 01:30:52 <CoolMatty> it doesnt have to have a single maintainer
Jan 15 01:32:14 <KEYofR> it sort of does. ultimately someone has to maintain servers and accounts with providers. you don't want very many people to have the ability to make changes. a very small pool yes, not one person, but, a very small pool.
Jan 15 01:33:25 <KEYofR> plus a larger number content maintainers/admins but they can't all be able to make core decisions
Jan 15 01:33:49 <CoolMatty> a very small pool > 1 maintainer
Jan 15 01:34:44 <KEYofR> the point is that 2 or 3 people is still not "the" community
Jan 15 01:35:53 <KEYofR> the entire community helps , say, edit content on a wiki, but there is only a single maintainer of the wiki itself. the fact that it's maybe 2 or 3 people is not different enough for the point.
Jan 15 01:36:10 <CoolMatty> they didn't say it had to be the community
Jan 15 01:36:17 <CoolMatty> it's to avoid a single point of failure
Jan 15 01:36:34 <CoolMatty> that is, person disappears, gets tired of it, dies, goes on a rampage, etc
Jan 15 01:37:01 <KEYofR> and vb changes thair rules or abandons the product or ...
Jan 15 01:37:06 <CoolMatty> even if there's only ~3 people with full access, that's all that's needed to ensure that the place won't completely die
Jan 15 01:37:07 <twik> it's free to do with it as anyone wishes
Jan 15 01:37:20 <twik> for the most part
Jan 15 01:37:32 <CoolMatty> KEYofR: that's not the issue. it's not that vb itself is going to disappear. it's the license you have to buy
Jan 15 01:38:07 <KEYofR> thats why I asked, are you proposing a community project or just a community resource you will provide? because I would rather invest my time adding content to a real community project than some dudes web site.
Jan 15 01:38:37 <CoolMatty> I don't plan on publishing and adding content all by myself, no. In fact I would encourage other maintainers
Jan 15 01:38:44 <CoolMatty> (it would probably die without)
Jan 15 01:38:46 <Abyssul> I cant wait til they release the tethering program on app catalog. That way we can configure it for Sprint use :p
Jan 15 01:39:23 <KEYofR> no it's maybe the license in therms of functionality, not its cost. software that requires licensing at all, no matter how easy they try to make it, is ultimately a problem some day.
Jan 15 01:39:41 <twik> what's better than vb??
Jan 15 01:39:42 <CoolMatty> ...which is why they wanted to avoid vb
Jan 15 01:40:00 <riskable> Microsoft is what's wrong with VB :)
Jan 15 01:40:06 <KEYofR> twik define better
Jan 15 01:40:10 <twik> ubuntuforums.org uses vb
Jan 15 01:40:12 <twik> :P
Jan 15 01:40:16 <KEYofR> so?
Jan 15 01:40:22 <twik> so vb is the shiz
Jan 15 01:40:29 <KEYofR> a bezoillion people eat at McDonalds too
Jan 15 01:40:38 <riskable> I wrote an app installer for WebOS last night...  Works pretty good
Jan 15 01:40:46 <twik> every good forum uses vb
Jan 15 01:41:00 <twik> mcdonalds isn't half bad either
Jan 15 01:41:14 <twik> a large triple thick shake gets me about 1100 calories or so
Jan 15 01:41:16 <riskable> It is a pseudo-installer, really...  It just unpacks a tarball of my app(s) to the appropriate place, tells Luna to rescan, then deletes itself
Jan 15 01:41:17 <twik> maybe even more
Jan 15 01:41:23 <Abyssul> What are calories?
Jan 15 01:42:01 <twik> the building blocks of forums and other internet communities
Jan 15 01:42:17 <riskable> So by "vb" you mean vBulletin, not Visual Basic
Jan 15 01:42:21 <CoolMatty> yes >.>
Jan 15 01:42:25 <twik> correct
Jan 15 01:42:36 <riskable> That's what I get by coming into the conversation mid-stream :P
Jan 15 01:42:45 <twik> it happens
Jan 15 01:43:11 <rwhitby> riskable: using type:game ?
Jan 15 01:43:16 <riskable> So what do you folks think of the feasibility of having a web-only distributed app (for sale, say $1.99) that uses an installer?
Jan 15 01:43:36 <rwhitby> riskable: using type:game ?
Jan 15 01:43:38 <riskable> rwhitby: No, it is a sort of system utility (don't make me give away too much please =)
Jan 15 01:43:50 <riskable> The installer uses type: game, yeah
Jan 15 01:44:05 <KEYofR> well since we don't know what you're talking about...
Jan 15 01:44:08 <rwhitby> riskable: it will not be accepted by the web submission process
Jan 15 01:44:26 <riskable> It installs two apps before it removes itself:  One is just a straight-up Mojo app and the other is an app that restarts a daemon
Jan 15 01:44:30 <rwhitby> riskable: and will stop working in a future webOS version
Jan 15 01:44:56 <riskable> Well, the app won't stop working...  Only the installer and the daemon restart utility :)
Jan 15 01:45:23 <rwhitby> riskable: nod
Jan 15 01:45:32 <riskable> As long as there's a mechanism to run a script or binary available in the future I can just use something else in my installer (or, ideally, not have to use an installer at all)
Jan 15 01:45:41 <PreGame> rwhitby: do you mean the type: that is in appinfo.json?
Jan 15 01:45:47 <rwhitby> PreGame: yep
Jan 15 01:45:59 <PreGame> then how do you get the type without installing the application?
Jan 15 01:46:26 <KEYofR> whats the point? what does it do that ipk doesn't do? why is it worth being out in left field and outside of standark app administration tools?
Jan 15 01:46:35 <rwhitby> PreGame: palms automatic submission checks will reject type:game until they get sandboxing working
Jan 15 01:46:42 <riskable> PreGame: The appinfo.json "type" tells Luna how to launch the app...  If it is "game" it assumes it needs to just execute the given binary for "main".  If it is "web" it tries to load it up as a Mojo app
Jan 15 01:46:59 <PreGame> i understand that
Jan 15 01:47:12 <PreGame> i am asking how to determine what type it is without installing it
Jan 15 01:47:29 <rwhitby> PreGame: oh, unfortunately you have to unpack the ipkg.
Jan 15 01:47:32 <riskable> KEYofR: My app makes a change to a file in /etc.  Once that change is done I don't need to keep an extra app around just to make the change...  Hence, it is just an "installer"
Jan 15 01:47:58 <riskable> I wish we could just include preinst scripts in our ipks
Jan 15 01:48:03 <PreGame> it doesnt seem like anymore of a risk than creating a .sh file and having postinst run it
Jan 15 01:48:05 <rwhitby> riskable: BTW, there's no secret about how you're doing it in this channel ;-)
Jan 15 01:48:06 <KEYofR> we have patches for that, reversble patches
Jan 15 01:48:14 <riskable> ...but that won't work because palm-install and the app store aren't really using ipkgs as ipkgs
Jan 15 01:48:31 <riskable> Well, the only thing I want to keep a secret is what my app actually DOES :)
Jan 15 01:48:41 <riskable> I can talk about how the installer works in detail
Jan 15 01:48:53 <KEYofR> risk bwaahahaha no such animal!
Jan 15 01:49:05 <PreGame> i dont think anyone cares what it does, and if they did care i don't think they would try and steal the idea
Jan 15 01:49:10 <riskable> Well, I want to be able to SELL my app at some point
Jan 15 01:49:21 <KEYofR> heh sekrit
Jan 15 01:49:22 <riskable> ...because I suspect at some point in the future Palm will provide a mechanism
Jan 15 01:49:35 <cryptk> my buddy just got back from best buy getting a pre
Jan 15 01:49:46 <cryptk> he has had it less that 30 minutes and it is already rebooting into dev mode
Jan 15 01:49:47 <cryptk> lol
Jan 15 01:49:49 <cryptk> for preware
Jan 15 01:50:04 <riskable> I wish Preware supported paid apps
Jan 15 01:50:12 <PreGame> it does
Jan 15 01:50:15 <PreGame> paypal me all your money
Jan 15 01:50:18 <riskable> LOL
Jan 15 01:50:46 <rwhitby> riskable: Preware accesses many feeds, some of which have paid apps in them (e.g. the Palm app catalog feed)
Jan 15 01:51:21 <rwhitby> and the precentral feed has a number of apps that have demo versions with activation mechanisms requiring payment.
Jan 15 01:51:26 <PreGame> anyone have experience with running a website with mirrors?
Jan 15 01:51:50 <PreGame> they do?
Jan 15 01:51:53 <riskable> rwhitby: Give me an example app that has a payment mechanism to enable the full version please (I just want to look to see how its done)
Jan 15 01:52:01 <dBsooner> ok, I'm back.
Jan 15 01:52:05 <rwhitby> riskable: NesEM
Jan 15 01:52:12 <dBsooner> Time to work more on the Web Portal.
Jan 15 01:52:15 * riskable loads up Preware
Jan 15 01:52:15 <PreGame> if precentral has those apps they will be easy to bypass
Jan 15 01:52:17 <KEYofR> risk it's a sekrit!
Jan 15 01:52:19 <rwhitby> it's done in a binary NPAPI plugin
Jan 15 01:52:20 <dBsooner> I really wish egaudet would do something for me.
Jan 15 01:52:31 <rwhitby> it's not done in javascript
Jan 15 01:52:33 <dBsooner> ~kick egaudet
Jan 15 01:52:34 * infobot kicks egaudet
Jan 15 01:52:52 <egaudet> ~superpunch dBsooner
Jan 15 01:52:58 <egaudet> ~uppercut dBsooner
Jan 15 01:53:03 <egaudet> ~whack infobot
Jan 15 01:53:03 <dBsooner> ~donkeypunch egaudet
Jan 15 01:53:04 * infobot whacks infobot upside the head.
Jan 15 01:53:14 <riskable> I wrote a Java service to do what my installer does...  But it seems like such a waste to have this service running in the background all the time that only needs to perform one function once
Jan 15 01:53:24 <dBsooner> egaudet: can you submit the patches from old to the new?
Jan 15 01:53:32 <egaudet> bleh
Jan 15 01:53:37 <dBsooner> I'll give you a list of which ones if you will do it.
Jan 15 01:53:38 <egaudet> have the authors resubmit
Jan 15 01:53:44 <dBsooner> Why?
Jan 15 01:53:46 <rwhitby> riskable: is your goal to release a paid app outside of the palm app catalog, or is your goal to create an altenative to Preware?
Jan 15 01:53:53 <dBsooner> It would take me longer to email them than to just submit them myself.
Jan 15 01:54:02 <KEYofR> risk on that I would absolutely agree holy cow
Jan 15 01:54:11 <dBsooner> rwhitby: riskable is Installer.
Jan 15 01:54:12 <dBsooner> LOL
Jan 15 01:54:14 <dBsooner> j/k
Jan 15 01:54:20 <egaudet> not really, i have to go through the stupid email download the zip, resubmit it, find all the obscure info and add it all into the form
Jan 15 01:54:37 <dBsooner> egaudet: all the info is right ther ein the email
Jan 15 01:54:37 <rwhitby> dBsooner: the author of Installer is not as smart as riskable obviously is.
Jan 15 01:54:39 <dBsooner> in order
Jan 15 01:54:52 <dBsooner> rwhitby: hints why I said, j/k
Jan 15 01:56:04 <riskable> rwhitby: My goal is to release a paid app that performs a function everyone will want but I can't do that right now because it needs to make a modification to a system file.
Jan 15 01:56:48 <rwhitby> riskable: understood
Jan 15 01:56:49 <riskable> I wrote an installer app that works just fine but it uses hacks (type:game) to work
Jan 15 01:57:11 <Abyssul> What app riskable?
Jan 15 01:57:31 <riskable> The stupid thing is that it only needs to make this change ONCE and then never again.  I have an app that restarts a system daemon when my app performs an update but I could live with just telling the user to restart their Pre
Jan 15 01:57:40 <riskable> Abyssul: Ahh, it's a secret (for now =)
Jan 15 01:57:51 <riskable> I don't want anyone stealing my idea, essentially
Jan 15 01:57:51 <egaudet> lol
Jan 15 01:57:55 <Abyssul> Damnit Im interested :p
Jan 15 01:58:03 <KEYofR> hahaha I'm not :)
Jan 15 01:58:06 <Abyssul> Alpha tester? :p
Jan 15 01:58:11 <riskable> You wish, hah
Jan 15 01:58:23 <Abyssul> whatever happened to that backup utility?
Jan 15 01:58:27 <riskable> If I knew someone one here a bit better I wouldn't mind sending them my app to play with
Jan 15 01:58:49 <riskable> rwhitby: Where is NesEM in Preware?
Jan 15 01:59:14 <rwhitby> riskable: it's not - they're still waiting for PreCentral developer approval.  You can get the ipk from the forum thread.
Jan 15 01:59:24 <riskable> Ahh, OK
Jan 15 01:59:31 <riskable> I saw that thread yesterday I think
Jan 15 01:59:35 <rwhitby> riskable: if you success depends on keeping the idea secret until after you release, it's probably best not to share it with anyone here :-)
Jan 15 01:59:48 <jacques> agreed.
Jan 15 01:59:52 <Abyssul> link please?
Jan 15 02:00:14 <Abyssul> (for nesEM)
Jan 15 02:00:24 <rwhitby> Abyssul: precentral.net->search
Jan 15 02:00:39 <Abyssul> ugh... :p
Jan 15 02:00:51 <egaudet> Abyssul, do you think we have everything for everywhere already open on our machines
Jan 15 02:00:58 <riskable> Ahh, I see how NesEM is handling payment...  i.e. setup a website to accept payment :P
Jan 15 02:01:00 <egaudet> we'd have to go search for it just the same to get the link :P
Jan 15 02:01:10 <rwhitby> riskable: yep
Jan 15 02:01:18 <riskable> I thought about that but I'd have to charge more
Jan 15 02:01:20 <rwhitby> riskable: just like Motion Apps Classic
Jan 15 02:01:33 <riskable> I just want an app in the store for $1.99 damnit.  Is that too much to ask?  LOL
Jan 15 02:01:34 <Abyssul> egaudet: of course?
Jan 15 02:01:56 <CoolMatty> something tells me whatever riskable's app is it's probably been thought of before and rejected
Jan 15 02:02:05 <riskable> CoolMatty: I wouldn't be surprised
Jan 15 02:02:27 <rwhitby> riskable: since the store is the only thing with payment set up, and you can't do what you want within the content guidelines, it's a bit of a catch-22 at the moment for you.
Jan 15 02:02:40 <riskable> rwhitby: Tell me about it
Jan 15 02:02:40 <rwhitby> unless you do something like NesEM does
Jan 15 02:02:55 <acydlord> riskable, try bribing Adora with an urbantool slotbar bag :p
Jan 15 02:03:03 <riskable> I already emailed back and forth with Palm trying to figure out a legitimate mechanism to get my app working in a manner they would find acceptable
Jan 15 02:03:31 <riskable> I might just have to table my app for now and come up with something else in the mean time
Jan 15 02:03:54 <rwhitby> riskable: or just do a binary plugin and payment website
Jan 15 02:04:24 <riskable> My "kill app" (LOL) idea list has 6 apps in it right now...  All of which would require low-level access and/or funky hacks due to the complete lack of functionality in Mojo.  I'm hoping the plugin dev kit opens up some opportunities to make things better
Jan 15 02:04:36 <riskable> s/kill/killer
Jan 15 02:04:42 <Abyssul> Rofl
Jan 15 02:05:00 <riskable> Maybe I'll just resort to a java service for now
Jan 15 02:05:14 <riskable> What sucks about that though is it still needs its own installer
Jan 15 02:05:19 <riskable> Well, it's own ipk
Jan 15 02:05:33 <riskable> That's why I went with the stand-alone installer method
Jan 15 02:05:57 <riskable> It is kind of neat to tap on an icon, watch it disappear, then have two new icons appear in its place
Jan 15 02:06:49 <rwhitby> riskable: we were considering exactly that for a Preware installer, until we learnt it would go away soon.
Jan 15 02:07:00 <rwhitby> (so would be a waste of time to develop)
Jan 15 02:07:04 <riskable> Mojo seems to be designed specifically for writing social networking or feed-reading apps
Jan 15 02:07:36 <riskable> rwhitby: Well, I'd be happy to give you what I've got but I'm afraid it is pretty specific to my app
Jan 15 02:08:00 <riskable> rwhitby: It would be pretty trivial, though, to modify it to be more generic so that it could install any given app(s)
Jan 15 02:08:31 <KEYofR> risk: another answer for missing mojo functionality is a generic system level service like sysmgr. make yourself a general purpose service that gives you backdoor access to the system a single service that all your apps can use. IDEALLY I'd like to see only one such service that all apps by anyone could use.
Jan 15 02:08:50 <KEYofR> no more terminal service, tether, led
Jan 15 02:08:50 <rwhitby> riskable: oh, it would take all of 10 minutes to create a type:game shell script which installs Preware.  It's the 50 hours of support when it breaks that is the waste of time.
Jan 15 02:08:53 <riskable> KEYofR: Sounds like a good idea
Jan 15 02:09:07 <riskable> rwhitby: I understand and agree!
Jan 15 02:09:15 <rwhitby> KEYofR: just don't make it a security hole
Jan 15 02:09:24 <riskable> The only reason why I thought an installer would be acceptable for my app is that once it runs once it is done forever
Jan 15 02:09:33 <rwhitby> if a rogue webos app can execute something as root, that's unacceptable.
Jan 15 02:09:54 <KEYofR> jason robitaille has something like that with SysToolsMgr Service but I don't know what exactly it provides
Jan 15 02:10:10 <riskable> My wish-list of API calls (presently): 1) The ability to stop/start upstart scripts.  2) The ability to call scripts/binaries in your own app's dir.
Jan 15 02:10:12 <rwhitby> KEYofR: SysToolsMgr is open source - go have a look.
Jan 15 02:10:41 <riskable> Oh, and I want access to files in /tmp
Jan 15 02:10:51 <riskable> ...not just /media/internal
Jan 15 02:10:54 <rwhitby> riskable: anyone with Quake or DOOM! installed already has #1 installed.
Jan 15 02:11:36 <rwhitby> but you still need the method to install the upstart script
Jan 15 02:11:39 <riskable> rwhitby: Yeah, I thought about using that same mechanism but I didn't want to force people to install a huge app before they could use mine :P
Jan 15 02:11:58 <rwhitby> riskable: just put a Depends: on the service
Jan 15 02:12:02 <rwhitby> it's a separate ipkg
Jan 15 02:12:11 <riskable> That won't work for paid apps :(
Jan 15 02:12:21 <rwhitby> (it's GPL, so you won't want to incorporate it into your ipkg ;-)
Jan 15 02:12:36 <riskable> Also, as much as I think sandboxing is a good idea I still need the ability to modify a file in /etc once before my app can work properly
Jan 15 02:12:52 <riskable> rwhitby: Who said anything about my app not being open source?
Jan 15 02:13:06 <rwhitby> riskable: sorry, bad assumption on my part.
Jan 15 02:13:10 <rwhitby> ~slap rwhitby
Jan 15 02:13:11 * infobot slaps rwhitby, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!
Jan 15 02:13:12 <riskable> hehe
Jan 15 02:13:21 <egaudet> SysToolMgr is MIT
Jan 15 02:13:29 <rwhitby> egaudet: yep
Jan 15 02:13:34 <riskable> Once my app is out in the wild I would have absolutely NO PROBLEM with people copying it to their heart's content...  Or modifying it or whatnot
Jan 15 02:13:49 <egaudet> cool
Jan 15 02:13:54 <rwhitby> riskable: trouble is that if your app can modify /etc, then any app can screw anything
Jan 15 02:14:05 <riskable> rwhitby: That there lies the rub
Jan 15 02:14:19 <riskable> Technically, i can get away with not modifying the file in /etc
Jan 15 02:14:35 <riskable> Though, if I say WHY that is some clever folks in the channel could figure out what my app does :)
Jan 15 02:14:59 <riskable> ...but that's a bad option because it would mean folks would have to re-install my app after every reboot
Jan 15 02:15:17 <riskable> ...assuming the forthcoming PDK lets me do what I need to
Jan 15 02:15:58 <riskable> Now folks are scratching their heads, LOL
Jan 15 02:16:45 <riskable> I am pondering writing my own app store if things don't work out with the PDK
Jan 15 02:16:47 <KEYofR> not really
Jan 15 02:17:11 <riskable> One that can accept payment yet also handle dependencies
Jan 15 02:17:39 <riskable> For example, I'd love to be able to write native apps in Python...  But that would require Python be installed via optware
Jan 15 02:18:30 <riskable> optware itself handles dependencies but if you wanted to, say, sell a game written in Python you'd either need to "freeze" it (which would make it MUCH larger than it needs to be) or you need a mechanism to ensure Python is installed along with the game
Jan 15 02:18:42 <destinal> riskable: does it have to do with what you first asked about on January 10th regarding dnsmasq?
Jan 15 02:19:02 <riskable> destinal: I knew some folks would start researching me.  Always the puzzlers programmers!
Jan 15 02:19:27 <destinal> riskable: well I was there then talking to you about it but even if not the channel is logged :)
Jan 15 02:19:28 <rwhitby> destinal: you won't believe what I have just found
Jan 15 02:19:48 <riskable> destinal: Actually, no.  That query has to do with one of my other app ideas:  location-based DNS.  Would come in super-handy for me when I'm at the office and I need some mappings setup to acccess my intranet stuff
Jan 15 02:19:50 <destinal> rwhitby: maybe I will and maybe I won't
Jan 15 02:20:07 <destinal> rwhitby: sounds interesting, though
Jan 15 02:20:13 <KEYofR> I really have no patence for "help me but im keeping my goods a secret unless you buy it from me but it's not working can you help me make it work for free?"
Jan 15 02:20:37 <riskable> KEYofR: Well, good thing I'm not like that!
Jan 15 02:20:49 <rwhitby> KEYofR: that's not what I'm seeing from riskable
Jan 15 02:21:01 <riskable> I'm mostly just venting my frustrations :)
Jan 15 02:21:03 <destinal> rwhitby: ?
Jan 15 02:21:22 <KEYofR> oh well venting I get
Jan 15 02:21:24 <riskable> If I need help on code or something that's what the forums are for :P
Jan 15 02:21:26 <rwhitby> destinal: a couple of new ipkg feeds for webOS.
Jan 15 02:22:31 <KEYofR> risk, doesn't your offices dhcp server handle that?
Jan 15 02:22:31 <riskable> Does anyone know what other 'type' options are coming?  What do we know about the sandboxing?
Jan 15 02:22:32 <psykoz> is there any negative effects of adding the testing feed into preware (manually by cat url > testingfeed in the etc folder or whatever) ?
Jan 15 02:22:45 <KEYofR> (in-house dns)
Jan 15 02:22:50 <psykoz> or rather echo url > ..
Jan 15 02:23:17 <riskable> KEYofR: No, the office DHCP hands out access to the regular intranet...  I need mappings setup to access some stuff in the lab and I also need to override stuff for testing
Jan 15 02:23:24 <egaudet> riskable, we don't know anything but fairly confident you won't be able to ever edit anything in /etc in an app catalog app, unless you got special business relationship with Palm I'd suspect
Jan 15 02:23:35 <KEYofR> got it
Jan 15 02:23:38 <riskable> Right now I just have an /etc/hosts.office that I swap out with /etc/hosts when I need to do the testing
Jan 15 02:24:12 <KEYofR> you want something like extra fields in the wifi profiles, except maybe not limited to wifi
Jan 15 02:24:14 <egaudet> rwhitby.......  "a couple of new ipkg feeds...."
Jan 15 02:24:25 <dBsooner> egaudet: your current IP i just got from whois, is that your main ip?
Jan 15 02:24:34 <twik> i like new feeds :)
Jan 15 02:24:35 <egaudet> dBsooner, stop stalking me!
Jan 15 02:24:36 <dBsooner> I am making a "safe_ip_list" to be able to bypass the 5 min wait
Jan 15 02:24:44 <riskable> Oh, my app is so awesome...  It would be so disappointing if I couldn't make money from it (everything I've ever released publicly has been open source so far)
Jan 15 02:24:50 <egaudet> dBsooner, yea
Jan 15 02:24:56 <dBsooner> rwhitby: same for you?
Jan 15 02:25:12 <egaudet> riskable, no one ever said you can't make money from open source app
Jan 15 02:25:13 <dBsooner> doh! Nm.. whois fail for rwhitb
Jan 15 02:25:17 <riskable> KEYofR: What I want is the ability to make a call to the API to add some configuration options to dnsmasq
Jan 15 02:25:25 <dBsooner> @nslu2-linux/rwhitby
Jan 15 02:25:47 <destinal> rwhitby: I suppose ipkg feeds could exist
Jan 15 02:25:50 <riskable> Well, it'll be open source regardless...  It is one of those things where you can perform the same function by hand with a lot of manual steps
Jan 15 02:26:16 <CoolMatty> rwhitby: what's the significance of these new feeds
Jan 15 02:26:18 <riskable> So anyone who looks at the code for my app and wants to just manually do the same on their WebOS device could easily do it if dev mode is enabled
Jan 15 02:27:10 <riskable> So it is just a convenience app...  Makes your WebOS experience a lot better but people will only pay so much for such things.  I peg it at being worth about $1.99 :)
Jan 15 02:27:37 <riskable> ...and if I simply add a donation link I'll make like maybe $10
Jan 15 02:27:56 <riskable> ...but I *know* the value my app adds is worth a _lot_ to a _lot_ of people
Jan 15 02:28:09 <PreGame> riskable:
Jan 15 02:28:15 <dBsooner> rwhitby: pm me your ip if you want to be on the safe ip list
Jan 15 02:28:16 <PreGame> you will make WAY more than $10
Jan 15 02:28:18 <riskable> ...and there's no way to make a "trial" version.  It is all-or-nothing
Jan 15 02:29:05 <riskable> What I *am* thinking about doing is making my app free in Preware for the time being until Palm gives me some legitimate way to perform the functions I need
Jan 15 02:29:40 <riskable> ...but there might be copycats up the wazoo when that day finally arrives and it will severely limit how much I could make :)
Jan 15 02:30:02 <riskable> At least I got a really cool domain name to go with my app (ooh, start your searches!)
Jan 15 02:30:29 <egaudet> I am going to smash this tux racer into the ground
Jan 15 02:30:39 <riskable> Regardless, I need a good app idea for the contest :)
Jan 15 02:30:59 <riskable> If I could get my app into the store I'd win $100,000...  Easy
Jan 15 02:31:03 <riskable> Especially if it was free
Jan 15 02:31:11 <riskable> Everyone would download it
Jan 15 02:31:13 <CoolMatty> someone's cocky
Jan 15 02:31:16 <riskable> *everyone*
Jan 15 02:31:53 <CoolMatty> *cough* egotrip *cough*
Jan 15 02:31:56 <riskable> hehehe
Jan 15 02:31:58 <KEYofR> It must be a magic battery life extender.
Jan 15 02:32:10 <psykoz> hrmm, speaking of changing things in /etc, has anyone used non-sprint DNS servers in /etc/resolv.conf ?  ie: like GTE and Google's
Jan 15 02:32:14 <riskable> KEYofR: Well, it might save SOME battery...
Jan 15 02:32:19 <egaudet> is this still "venting"?
Jan 15 02:32:22 <egaudet> or "teasing"
Jan 15 02:32:24 <riskable> ...but not any amount to make it significant :)
Jan 15 02:32:31 <riskable> Oh, definitely teasing
Jan 15 02:33:04 <riskable> Well, when I wrote my app I just thought, "Oh, this'll be cool!"  Then I started to USE its functionality and now I'm like, "Everyone will want this!"
Jan 15 02:33:25 <riskable> It is *not* an original idea
Jan 15 02:33:32 <CoolMatty> (somehow I doubt that)
Jan 15 02:33:38 <riskable> It would just have "first mover status"
Jan 15 02:33:38 <CoolMatty> @wanting
Jan 15 02:33:47 <riskable> ...for the WebOS platform
Jan 15 02:34:13 <destinal> egaudet: don't you just need pdl
Jan 15 02:34:19 <destinal> rotation changes?
Jan 15 02:34:36 <KEYofR> oh, so it's a word processor. Rick says thats what they need most.
Jan 15 02:34:40 <riskable> LOL
Jan 15 02:34:56 <riskable> No, my app just automates something others have already been doing on their phones
Jan 15 02:35:00 <riskable> ...by hand
Jan 15 02:35:08 <KEYofR> skype then
Jan 15 02:35:13 <destinal> ad blocker
Jan 15 02:35:14 <CoolMatty> calling people? :p
Jan 15 02:35:21 <riskable> CoolMatty: LOL!
Jan 15 02:35:23 <KEYofR> cool: ^5
Jan 15 02:35:45 <KEYofR> I know!!! it farts!!
Jan 15 02:35:55 <CoolMatty> it doesn't just fart, it farts /automatically/
Jan 15 02:36:10 <KEYofR> oh man..
Jan 15 02:36:12 <CoolMatty> and when the ringer switch is on... it does /silent farts/
Jan 15 02:36:31 <egaudet> destinal, well I actually just rotated the gl for the iphone ported one, but the text still writes weird.  I'm trying to port the extreme tux racer version, but I'm failing at drawing the course right now so my gles port must be crap job
Jan 15 02:37:30 <CoolMatty> honestly riskable I don't think I do anything by hand that can be done automatically on my phone right now
Jan 15 02:37:53 <KEYofR> I know, it's an x-ray viewer
Jan 15 02:37:59 <CoolMatty> no, a mind reader
Jan 15 02:38:01 <destinal> oh I know, it's a spam sender
Jan 15 02:38:19 <KEYofR> lotter number generator
Jan 15 02:38:20 <CoolMatty> it uses the touchstone interface to interact with your brain waves. just place the phone against your skull and it launches the app you're thinking of
Jan 15 02:38:59 <CoolMatty> actually none of you read that. that is /so/ going to be my entry for an april fools prank app this year
Jan 15 02:38:59 <Robi_> acydlord: sing to it, ohh suggah suggah
Jan 15 02:39:30 <riskable> CoolMatty: Which is precisely why my app has value :)
Jan 15 02:39:42 <KEYofR> it's a "boss key" for your pre. your boss walks in and you can instantly hide and silence VBA and replace it with what looks like contacts
Jan 15 02:39:49 <CoolMatty> riskable: because it's an april fools joke?
Jan 15 02:40:04 * psykoz grins
Jan 15 02:40:06 * riskable adds "boss key" to his app TODO list...
Jan 15 02:40:11 <psykoz> you work at the wrong place if you have to have a boss key ;)
Jan 15 02:40:46 <KEYofR> psy what, my couch?
Jan 15 02:41:39 <acydlord> O.o
Jan 15 02:41:50 <CoolMatty> if a boss key fits with what your app does, I can only imagine it's just a bunch of keyboard shortcuts
Jan 15 02:41:52 <riskable> psykoz: Who said anything about it being for WORK?!?
Jan 15 02:42:02 <KEYofR> I toke with my boss at his ski house. no, no reall boss key needed. although porn would disturb the sales lady who never comes into my office anyways
Jan 15 02:42:13 <riskable> It's the boss AT HOME you have to worry about ;D
Jan 15 02:42:13 <psykoz> you said "your boss walks in" ;)
Jan 15 02:42:25 <psykoz> Oh one of those
Jan 15 02:42:29 <riskable> hehehe
Jan 15 02:42:41 <psykoz> See, I helped make the kid and then kicked her out for trying to be the boss and took the kid
Jan 15 02:42:50 <KEYofR> psy: exactly, I said your not mine
Jan 15 02:43:11 <psykoz> I'm as of this year 8% my boss ;>  which is much better than 0%
Jan 15 02:43:59 <psykoz> But the company I work for is very lax, it's not uncommon to hear someone petition another for help "hey can you help me?" "sure, lemme finish my webcomic"
Jan 15 02:43:59 <KEYofR> hm, I suppose that fits me too since about '04
Jan 15 02:44:23 <KEYofR> small companies rule
Jan 15 02:44:38 <KEYofR> as long as the product is successful
Jan 15 02:46:01 <riskable> In Preware can you have a patch as an app dependency?
Jan 15 02:46:17 <riskable> I've seen an app somewhere that says it won't work without a certain patch
Jan 15 02:46:27 <riskable> ...but I don't think Preware can install those automatically (yet).  Can it?
Jan 15 02:47:44 <egaudet> it's had dependency support for a long time now
Jan 15 02:47:55 <egaudet> and all packages can have dependencies and everything is a package
Jan 15 02:48:16 <egaudet> although an app depending on a patch makes no sense to me
Jan 15 02:48:29 <egaudet> vice versa makes sense
Jan 15 02:48:57 <KEYofR> I think it makes sense. his app needs a certain patrch. whats so hard to understand?
Jan 15 02:49:30 <egaudet> An app depending on a patch is what's hard to understand
Jan 15 02:49:31 <riskable> My app just plain won't work unless a simple modification is made to a file in /etc
Jan 15 02:49:49 <riskable> Think of it like My Tether...  That app won't work unless a sysctl for ip forwarding is enabled
Jan 15 02:50:16 <riskable> WebOS doesn't use a sysctl.conf but if it did it would make sense that My Tether would need to modify that file before it could work
Jan 15 02:50:34 <egaudet> An app that needs to do something native should have a service, not a patch
Jan 15 02:51:04 <KEYofR> egaudet, weve already discussed that. a service is apparentluy pointless gross overkill
Jan 15 02:51:32 <KEYofR> I am all for avopiding waste
Jan 15 02:51:33 <egaudet> pointless gross overkill ouch
Jan 15 02:51:50 <acydlord> as soon as i get a touchstone i desperately need to write an app to push all notifications to my desktop instead of the phone when on the touchstone
Jan 15 02:52:17 <egaudet> but yeah I guess I can see a patch being handy
Jan 15 02:52:31 <psykoz> mmm chocolate stout
Jan 15 02:52:34 <KEYofR> huh? touchstone doesn't provide any communication does it?
Jan 15 02:53:00 <CoolMatty> KEYofR: no, it would be a network setup :p
Jan 15 02:53:03 <CoolMatty> probably a service :p
Jan 15 02:53:32 <acydlord> KEYofR, no it doesnt, it would have to be an ssh tunnel or something
Jan 15 02:53:43 <KEYofR> got it
Jan 15 02:53:57 <dBsooner> egaudet: Safe IP List done. :)
Jan 15 02:54:16 <CoolMatty> dBsooner: what are you doing anyway :p
Jan 15 02:54:29 <dBsooner> CoolMatty: http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/
Jan 15 02:54:40 <dBsooner> I am working on random stuff
Jan 15 02:54:50 <CoolMatty> oh right
Jan 15 02:54:53 <dBsooner> like I just made a way for me to specify IP's to bypass the 5min wait
Jan 15 02:55:10 <dBsooner> Jason, Eric and I are on the list
Jan 15 02:55:21 <dBsooner> rwhitby would be if he would send him his darn IP.
Jan 15 02:55:40 <KEYofR> maybe instead of sensing touchstone (none of my touchstones are near a pc, ten again, they're all near the pc I use most, my notebook)  have it detect the pc via wifi or bt?
Jan 15 02:55:42 <rwhitby> destinal, egaudet: it seems that ipkg feeds are being used in china to serve up warez
Jan 15 02:56:04 <rwhitby> dBsooner: I don't have an IP
Jan 15 02:56:19 <dBsooner> rwhitby: then you have to wait 5 mins between patch submissions. :)
Jan 15 02:56:22 <acydlord> dBsooner, his IP address would be upside down mirrored anyway
Jan 15 02:56:28 <dBsooner> oh yeah
Jan 15 02:56:36 <dBsooner> them AU's are always backwards.
Jan 15 02:56:38 <riskable> Regarding the query about pushing notifications to a desktop PC:  It would be great if we could call URLs via Ajax over bluetooth
Jan 15 02:56:46 <egaudet> Jason is the only one who needs that bypass :P
Jan 15 02:56:49 <dBsooner> rwhitby: And you have to have an IP. derr.
Jan 15 02:57:09 <acydlord> dBsooner, probably a dynamic one with a short TTL
Jan 15 02:57:20 <dBsooner> silly aussies
Jan 15 02:57:25 <riskable> If you have a web service listening on your bluetooth interface for pushed events on your desktop it would be trivial to write an app that makes an ajax call to that IP.  There's some complications though
Jan 15 02:57:29 <dBsooner> my ip hasn't changed in like years
Jan 15 02:57:36 * CoolMatty uses 3g card and resets it a bunch of times, spamming submissions :p
Jan 15 02:57:41 <riskable> ...such as discovery of the service
Jan 15 02:57:58 <KEYofR> then, if the call fails, just fall back to displaying the notice locally as normal
Jan 15 02:58:04 <destinal> rwhitby: lol
Jan 15 02:58:07 <acydlord> riskable, i'm thinking something more using the wifi
Jan 15 02:58:26 <riskable> Well, in that case just use regular ol' networking
Jan 15 02:58:29 <rwhitby> destinal, egaudet: intestingly, the URLs for these feeds no longer work, whereas they did when I first mentioned it here.
Jan 15 02:58:43 <CoolMatty> that's uhm... fast reaction times :p
Jan 15 02:58:45 <CoolMatty> cache? :p
Jan 15 02:58:56 <acydlord> i was talking to someone in here before about writing a conky script using the libnotify on the desktop
Jan 15 02:59:29 <rwhitby> This is the Depends: line from one of the entries in the Packages file:
Jan 15 02:59:33 <riskable> acydlord: If you're just going to use wifi write yourself a little web listener that accepts messages from your WebOS app.  Done
Jan 15 02:59:45 <rwhitby> Depends: org.webosinternals.diffstat,com.excessdata.batterysaver,ca.canucksoftware.internalz,org.webosinternals.lunamanager,de.ailis.minimap,com.palm.app.com.pfountz.nodoze,com.palm.zinge.resetbutton,com.caldantech.riot,com.palm.app.switcharoo,com.mrjspeed.topplemaze,org.webosinternals.terminal,org.webosinternals.termplugin,ca.canucksoftware.filemgr
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 15 02:59:57 2010