**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 17 06:31:40 2010 Jan 17 07:12:07 rwhitby: ping Jan 17 07:14:10 PuffTheMagic: gu Jan 17 07:17:28 rwhitby: so back a while ago we talked about a gui for the ssh server and/or ssh server setup Jan 17 07:17:44 rwhitby: i was thinking.... Jan 17 07:17:57 it might be cool if a ssh server was embedded into an sdl Jan 17 07:18:02 so instead of always running Jan 17 07:18:14 a user could launch the server with an icon Jan 17 07:18:29 and the "gui" could show connections/status Jan 17 07:18:43 as well and start/stop controls Jan 17 07:18:48 and some setup options in there Jan 17 07:19:21 (i guess this could be done with a ssh service and gui too) Jan 17 07:20:13 nod Jan 17 07:20:33 Hows it going guys? Jan 17 07:20:46 or maybe patch dropbear/openssl to provide lunaservice integration ;) Jan 17 07:21:08 heh, last guy in Debian who patched openssl didn't do to well at it ... Jan 17 07:21:37 yeah i remember that Jan 17 07:22:04 rwhitby : did u notice that preware can be downloaded before package manager again? Jan 17 07:22:26 jmyadagod: I don't understand what you're saying Jan 17 07:23:14 rwhitby :didnt u take the update option of preware before pagakge manager away? Jan 17 07:23:32 spelling sucks right now half sleep lol...sorry Jan 17 07:24:28 i had 2 of my boys acidently update preware before package manager yesterday Jan 17 07:25:11 i thought that option was taken away in previous updates? Jan 17 07:25:17 xcomp: ping Jan 17 07:26:21 Also i just updated package manager right now and lost all my palm catalog apps? Jan 17 07:27:03 ****lost the option to download palm catalog apps in preware************ Jan 17 07:27:48 jmyadagod: did you update feeds? Jan 17 07:28:08 I see 1188 apps in the three palm feeds right now Jan 17 07:28:22 yes and i lost them and then i did it again and there back hmmmm disregard it must of been a fluke...... Jan 17 07:29:02 jmyadagod: Palm have been fixing the feeds recently, maybe it was a glitch Jan 17 07:29:19 rwhitby : but what about the option of updateing preware before pakage manager ...does it matter the order anymore? Jan 17 07:29:58 jmyadagod: Preware will update package manager first, assuming you're running a recent version of preware Jan 17 07:30:40 o ok i see Jan 17 07:30:55 that's intesting, my app catalog shows 1123 apps, but preware shows 1124 apps in that feed Jan 17 07:31:59 preware gets apps first lol JK Jan 17 07:32:59 app scoop is pretty neat Jan 17 07:33:55 Doesn't Preware do the same thing as App Scoop, since they both look at the same feed? Jan 17 07:34:08 preware takes forever to load up though Jan 17 07:37:44 it'd be kind of interesting to add a feature to update feeds individually Jan 17 07:38:01 gollyzila: preware shows a superset of all applications, themes, patches, services plugins available for webOS. If it runs on webOS, it's available in Preware. 1426 apps, 1062 themes, 193 patches and 36 other utilities. That's 2717 packages for webOS. Jan 17 07:38:45 rwhitby : how does android count "patches" as apps right? Jan 17 07:38:57 Like it says itself, Preware IS the univeresal installer Jan 17 07:39:23 jmyadagod: webos is the only mobile OS for which you can patch the operating system over the air while sitting at a cafe with no other compuer. Jan 17 07:39:26 computer. Jan 17 07:39:39 hmmm that nice...... Jan 17 07:39:41 Kyusaku_: yeah, I've been thinking about how to do that. The trouble is that the underlying ipkg command that we call doesn't support it, so we'll need to trick it somehow. Jan 17 07:40:11 Toaster23: it would be interesting to compare AppScoop loading time vs Preware with the same set of feeds enabled. Jan 17 07:40:17 cd /#webos Jan 17 07:40:19 oops Jan 17 07:41:23 would anyone like to be able to get 16% off fandango tickets? Jan 17 07:41:36 rwhitby: I see, good to know. Jan 17 07:41:48 i have a link if anyone intrested......sorry for spam just trying to share Jan 17 07:42:22 the problem though is AppScoop doesn't do everything Preware does Jan 17 07:42:40 what does App Scoop pull exactly? Jan 17 07:46:41 rwhitby: the main problem with Preware is that I get 404's and just general slowness from one feed I'm not sure which. Jan 17 07:47:08 Guess its not a problem with preware rather the server the feed is on Jan 17 07:47:10 maybe one of the theme feeds Jan 17 07:47:16 Toaster23: I'm just testing a Package Manager Service addition which reports which feed is having problems. Jan 17 07:47:25 hmm i had a couple 404's yesterday morning but i think i didnt have good reception Jan 17 07:48:19 rwhitby that would be nice. Jan 17 07:48:40 Also if a certain feed doesnt load it should just skip that one and let you know but still show you the rest of the feeds Jan 17 07:49:37 Toaster23: it should still load any feeds it has been able to get Jan 17 07:50:24 whoa someone released a QR code reader!? Jan 17 07:50:32 hmm it doesnt for me atleast last time it had a 404 I had to click on update feeds and wait again so I could get in. Jan 17 07:51:25 rwhitby: just saw your tweet RE: Palm fixing the XML feeds Jan 17 07:51:35 I still only see 978 Palm Catalog apps Jan 17 07:51:45 freakout: see where? Jan 17 07:51:46 OMG I gotta test this QR code reader Jan 17 07:52:02 rwhitby: Preware Jan 17 07:52:17 Applications ---> Feeds Jan 17 07:52:25 oh wait Jan 17 07:52:29 * freakout facepalms Jan 17 07:52:33 * freakout updates feeds Jan 17 07:53:23 oh wtf my Pre luna reset trying to download/install the app Jan 17 07:54:16 Kyusaku: looks like app scoop pulls the web.updates feed only Jan 17 07:54:24 yeah Jan 17 07:54:33 there we go. 1105 Palm Catalog apps now Jan 17 07:54:42 still not the same number as you though rwhitby Jan 17 07:55:08 new ipkservice required maybe - will update that now... Jan 17 07:55:18 I see 1095 for Palm catalog Jan 17 07:56:21 freakout Kyusaku : how many do u have installed..... Jan 17 07:56:48 jmyadagod: lol. now that's worth thinking about... Jan 17 07:56:52 I have 1403 apps Jan 17 07:57:02 i'll turn on "installed is available"... Jan 17 07:57:29 woah, so is the QR code reader somewhat like google goggles? Jan 17 07:57:38 how do you see how many palm apps? Jan 17 07:57:48 Feeds Jan 17 07:57:57 Then Palm App Catalog Jan 17 07:57:59 oh right Jan 17 07:58:41 freakout: yeah, installed is available has to be on Jan 17 07:58:51 1125 for me ..... Jan 17 07:58:57 rwhitby : how many u got? Jan 17 07:59:02 1124 Jan 17 07:59:30 how do i have more than u.....? Jan 17 07:59:38 I'm not sure how apps which have the same package id in the app catalog and homebrew would be handled. Jan 17 08:00:15 let me see what the file on the server says Jan 17 08:00:24 I have 1124 Jan 17 08:00:26 there we go - 1125 Palm Catalog apps, 26 Web and 10 Beta. 1426 apps total Jan 17 08:01:17 ah, mine says 1125 too - they must have added one while we were talking. Jan 17 08:01:40 freakout: and 1063 themes Jan 17 08:02:06 193 patches, 36 other packages (optware, plugins, services, etc) Jan 17 08:02:25 2718 packages total Jan 17 08:02:38 yep. 1063 theme here too Jan 17 08:02:41 the file on the server says 1125 too, so it matches Jan 17 08:02:42 * freakout has yet to stick with a theme Jan 17 08:02:43 rwithby you know whats funny i cant download tweefree in appcatalog but i can download it it preware...... Jan 17 08:02:50 I actually like the original quite a bit. Jan 17 08:02:56 yeah I have 1124 apps, prethemer has 938 Jan 17 08:03:18 I switch themes to match which sneakers and hat i wear that Day Jan 17 08:03:34 Toaster23: do you have 'Installed is Available' set to Yes? Jan 17 08:03:41 yeah Jan 17 08:04:34 Have you guys seen Sexy Heels app ? I think this is closet to a fethish/porn app we got LMAO thats a little weird Jan 17 08:04:52 hmmmm QR code reader is not bad, it kinda works. Jan 17 08:07:35 funny too, I was just talking to some guy at Engadget show taping who was thinking about the Pre but wanted some QR code reader functionality Jan 17 08:07:54 I have a feeling this might sound dumb but here i go....... Can i backup the patches i have installed by copying them from /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications and then copy them back in after I doctor my phone? Jan 17 08:08:10 no Jan 17 08:08:43 because the changes they make affect files outside of that dir Jan 17 08:08:43 kyusaku: was that an answer for me? Jan 17 08:08:51 yes Jan 17 08:09:11 oooohhhh that's what I thought. So no backup solution as of now? Jan 17 08:09:15 patches affect core OS files, which aren't in the apps directory Jan 17 08:09:51 it'd be nice to do some kind patch checklist install Jan 17 08:10:05 as of right now not much you can do Jan 17 08:11:54 I wish Preware could save a list of your patches and when you need to redownload them it will check if they are compatible with your firmware. Then it'll install all the compatible ones and tell you the ones it didn't install. Jan 17 08:13:58 hmmmm is there a way to send someone who is not a webOS user a link to an app? Was hoping ProjectAppetite had something but not seeing it. Jan 17 08:14:04 gollyzila: have you read the Preware Features Roadmap thread? Jan 17 08:14:52 Yes I do remember reading it a while back. Was I just restating what is intended for future versions of Preware? Jan 17 08:15:09 yep, AUPT Jan 17 08:15:21 in alpha testing now Jan 17 08:16:04 Kyusaku: there are no links to ipkgs from palm. Just links that cause the app catalog app to download an app. Jan 17 08:16:16 oh I don't want ipkg links Jan 17 08:16:37 I want like a link to the listing for people on non-webos platforms Jan 17 08:16:39 hi Jan 17 08:16:49 Kyusaku: we're thinking of doing something like that on preware.org Jan 17 08:17:02 basically to make preware.org look exactly like Preware on the device Jan 17 08:17:12 instead of telling them like "go to projectapetite and search for 'this'" Jan 17 08:17:12 reading the live feeds Jan 17 08:17:48 rwhitby: are those alpha testing versions of Preware on the webos-internals feeds? Jan 17 08:17:57 i need to find an awesome web programmer who will work long hours for free though ... Jan 17 08:18:40 gollyzila: it's not an alpha testing version of preware (the latest pubic versions have all the required features), it's an alpha testing version of the webos-patches feed Jan 17 08:19:06 (and it's not in sync with the real version, so you don't want to use it unless you're serious about the alpha testing bit) Jan 17 08:19:43 rwhitby: ooooh. Is that feed open to the public for volunteer testing? Jan 17 08:20:09 all webos-internals stuff is open to the public - you just need to know where to find it Jan 17 08:20:49 but if you want to alpha-test aupt, you must be prepared to webos-doctor your phone at a moment's notice Jan 17 08:21:17 rwhitby:how can I make Preware look at that alpha webos-patches feed? Jan 17 08:21:20 since you can only alpha test it by doctoring back to a previous version of webOS, installing patches, and then doing an OTA update Jan 17 08:21:41 gollyzila: doctor your phone back to a webOS 1.3.1, and then I'll tell you. Jan 17 08:23:11 speaking of the Doctor, I gotta visit it soon. Some reason in between Preware updates, Preware no longer finds the info for the older Jason R's Top Bar Megamix patch. Jan 17 08:23:29 and WOSQI doesn't see it either Jan 17 08:24:32 So I would doctor to 1.3.1 and OTA to 1.3.5? Jan 17 08:24:37 that reminds me, I need to try the new really silent ringer switch patch Jan 17 08:24:40 gollyzila: yep Jan 17 08:24:48 gollyzila: only way to alpha test it Jan 17 08:25:10 rwhitby :what is he testing? Jan 17 08:25:20 jmyadagod: AUPT Jan 17 08:25:37 oh ok.... Jan 17 08:26:42 cool then I'll do that. My Pre is in dire need of doctoring as a matter of fact. but I think it's late for me and I'll wait till tomorrow morning. Will you be here tomorrow morning to guide me through the steps? Jan 17 08:27:09 I gotta find some flyers to test this QR code reader Jan 17 08:27:11 i wish pixi could do everything pre could do i would usr my upgrade to get a pixi ... Jan 17 08:29:29 gollyzila: look for egaudet to guide you Jan 17 08:30:36 I hope he's here in the morning since tomorrow is Sunday. Jan 17 08:30:59 tomorrow is monday for me, work day. Jan 17 08:32:10 yea sunday 332 am here Jan 17 08:32:45 http://www.nextel.com/en/support/faq/spending_limits.shtml << Does this apply to apps we buy? What about Mp3 music? Jan 17 08:32:48 rwhitby : hows that bt tethering working for u? Jan 17 08:33:07 ugh dumb Pre camera Jan 17 08:33:09 jmyadagod: never use it Jan 17 08:33:33 I hope next gen has an auto-focus or something Jan 17 08:33:36 Toaster23 : are u refering to charging apps to account? Jan 17 08:33:50 hmm no credit card Jan 17 08:34:20 i dont understand question then? Jan 17 08:34:27 oh duh, i forgot not everyone lives on the Pacific Coast. Okay, so hopefully egaudet is here Sunday morning, if not, by what others mean can i contact him? does he have an email? Jan 17 08:36:20 So the spending limit only applys to things you charge to your sprint account? Jan 17 08:36:37 If so that makes a whole lot more sense. Jan 17 08:36:51 yes Jan 17 08:36:55 Okay Jan 17 08:37:32 pretty sure apps go thru palm not sprint Jan 17 08:38:00 Yeah I have no clue what stuff would go through sprint Jan 17 08:38:47 ugh as crappy as this sounds camera app needs some kind of digital zoom feature to really get the most out of this QR code app Jan 17 08:39:31 you can zoom in and then screen cap, then load it in QR I bet Jan 17 08:39:41 whats a qr reader? Jan 17 08:39:59 barcodes? Jan 17 08:40:15 not exactly "bar" codes Jan 17 08:40:24 wheres the app beta? Jan 17 08:40:45 it's a matrix code Jan 17 08:40:59 wheres the app? Jan 17 08:41:03 very widely used in markets like Japan Jan 17 08:41:38 hmm.. and u download app from ? Jan 17 08:42:44 psykoz: the problem is the shot is so zoomed out you don't know how clear the code came out and may have to do multiple shots Jan 17 08:43:27 this is why I'd like some kind of digital zoom where I know a certain part of what I want to shoot comes out clear enough Jan 17 08:44:04 Kyusaku : where did u recieve app from or is it yours? Jan 17 08:44:07 the app photos shows it can find QR code from a far away shot, but I dunno Jan 17 08:44:14 it's on the web feed Jan 17 08:44:23 for Palm Jan 17 08:44:49 oh im stupid i deisable all feeds except the damn app catalog to see how many apps i had lol Jan 17 08:45:25 I would love it if it can just constantly stream camera pipe data and scan until it finds something Jan 17 08:45:39 did u see the thing on precentral about using old dvd eve to better picture? Jan 17 08:45:44 eye* Jan 17 08:45:58 the diy macro lens, yes Jan 17 08:46:31 if this QR code app is really not happening I might have to look into it. Jan 17 08:46:42 it does work technically Jan 17 08:47:12 but so far it's only worked for me on REALLY big shots of a QR code Jan 17 08:47:22 damn it pre just died wheres charger ahhh bedtime Jan 17 08:47:27 I might just need to figure out the sweet spot Jan 17 08:47:48 im out pzzz Jan 17 08:55:37 does someone have an idea, when an update for greg roll's messaging app for 1.3.5 will be released? Jan 17 08:57:23 oh you know I just read the description on the app, it doesn't locally decode the image. LAME. Jan 17 08:57:28 rwhitby: hey when you have a second; i packaged up the next release of vba with type:game :D i guess we all knew it would work but woo :). Jan 17 08:59:23 dtzWill|away: bbiab, will take a look Jan 17 09:06:01 Kyusaku, as far as i am aware it requires imgmagic to decode the image Jan 17 09:07:11 could be done on device but you'd probably have to install nginx or something Jan 17 09:07:26 anywho off to bed for me, gotta go pick up my touchstone stuff in the morn Jan 17 09:07:36 I'm looking at some QR decoding libraries in C/C++ Jan 17 09:10:14 acydlord: imagemagik is in optware ... Jan 17 09:11:21 ahh, i havent looked at the full optware feed in awhile Jan 17 09:11:26 i'll check it out tomorrow Jan 17 09:11:32 night Jan 17 09:14:50 hey is someone there? can someone test vba off of preware for me? Jan 17 09:14:51 :/ Jan 17 09:15:02 i just updated it, installs and works great locally :( Jan 17 09:15:07 but someone just reported it broke things for them Jan 17 09:15:23 wondering if someone had a second they could try it ('visualboyadvance') Jan 17 09:19:18 testing feed? Jan 17 09:19:42 Kyusaku: main preware Jan 17 09:19:55 lemme load up Jan 17 09:20:23 Kyusaku: ty. just confirms if it *runs* at all--first app in preare using type:game afaik and maybe there's something special about it that I did wrong :) Jan 17 09:21:17 do I need to load a rom or just run period Jan 17 09:21:24 just run period Jan 17 09:21:41 once that happens the binary is there--that all should work, it's just launching Jan 17 09:21:44 no longer using upstart, etc Jan 17 09:21:46 loaded fine and quick Jan 17 09:22:07 I see message about adding roms to media/internal Jan 17 09:22:32 Kyusaku: great. tyvm Jan 17 09:23:09 hmmm Jan 17 09:23:21 I tossed it Jan 17 09:23:27 and locked up my device Jan 17 09:23:41 gonna restart and try again Jan 17 09:23:53 well already restarting by itself Jan 17 09:24:04 o_O Jan 17 09:24:22 bummer. these things don't happen to me, frustrating :) Jan 17 09:24:38 hmmm works fine now Jan 17 09:24:44 odd Jan 17 09:25:05 that is odd. someone reported they had to reboot for things to work.. i can't imagine why that would be the case though Jan 17 09:25:34 no clue either but seems like it's the case in my experience Jan 17 09:25:44 gonna try removing Jan 17 09:25:48 and then install again Jan 17 09:26:17 can I just delete from launcher or need to remove via preware Jan 17 09:26:49 well launcher should work afaik Jan 17 09:27:22 ok lemme try this again Jan 17 09:28:07 kk i'll try too--although i did this a number of times in testing. grr haha Jan 17 09:28:14 never can test enough :) Jan 17 09:28:21 very true Jan 17 09:29:21 has anyone seen destinal Jan 17 09:29:40 ~seen destinal Jan 17 09:29:42 destinal was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 4h 18m 33s ago, saying: 'atlanta had said he was going to work on it a while back'. Jan 17 09:29:49 (fwiw) Jan 17 09:30:06 didn't lock up on me Jan 17 09:31:06 Kyusaku: good. thanks, appreciate at least that for a sanity check Jan 17 09:31:27 gonna try a could more scenarios Jan 17 09:35:08 someone else reported they had to restart luna. interesting. Jan 17 09:39:01 what are the control Jan 17 09:39:01 s Jan 17 09:39:04 for vba Jan 17 09:39:15 but, why after initial install is luna restart not needed Jan 17 09:39:38 very kooky Jan 17 09:41:20 really weird, I can't recreate that intial lockup at all Jan 17 09:42:11 I've tried deleting both ways amd reinstalling either after a reboot or without reboot Jan 17 09:42:37 and can't recreate the lockup Jan 17 09:43:25 that is mega strange Jan 17 09:57:01 ~seen edektor Jan 17 09:57:02 edektor is currently on #webos-internals (1h 2s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen edektor'. Jan 17 09:57:18 neat! Jan 17 10:01:14 Kyusaku: idk :/. controls/info: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:VBA#Controls Jan 17 10:31:50 you know that download limit Jan 17 10:31:52 for the pre Jan 17 10:31:59 does that apply for everything or just the download manager Jan 17 10:59:01 dtzWill: I updaet to the new vba without uninstalling the old one. Now when I get the statup visual effect when I select the Icon but nothing happens. Jan 17 10:59:21 Should I test somthing for you before I reinstall? Jan 17 10:59:33 German GSM V1.3.5.2 Jan 17 11:50:31 dtzWill: It works after a Luna restart. Looks like Luna dident get it that the app type was changed to 'game' Jan 17 12:14:43 good morning Jan 17 12:38:03 testing feed versions of ipkgservice and preware not give better error and status reporting for Update Feeds Jan 17 12:38:09 s/not/now/ Jan 17 12:38:09 rwhitby meant: testing feed versions of ipkgservice and preware now give better error and status reporting for Update Feeds Jan 17 13:34:03 thankee Jan 17 13:34:17 hey hey hey Jan 17 13:34:19 destinal! Jan 17 13:35:32 finally had it. Jan 17 13:35:37 trading my pixi in for a pre Jan 17 13:35:46 damn vzw and their pre plus :\ Jan 17 13:35:56 why did you get a pixi first Jan 17 13:38:01 wanted a phone without a clit or comes in gimmicky space-wasting two slidy pieces? just a guess off the top Jan 17 13:38:26 I can never find the clit Jan 17 13:38:30 on my phone or women Jan 17 15:15:18 idk if you guys noticed Jan 17 15:15:30 but in the demo videos of the pre plus and stuff with 1.4 on it Jan 17 15:15:35 the apps opened differently Jan 17 15:16:08 in what way? Jan 17 15:16:38 first they went into card view Jan 17 15:16:47 then they went full Jan 17 15:17:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wqPHEA2KGE Jan 17 15:17:23 see the first few seconds Jan 17 15:18:09 redirected gl and compositing? interesting Jan 17 15:18:52 then in the second half they show the other phone for 3d gaming Jan 17 15:19:01 which although its still a pre plus Jan 17 15:19:13 it seems to be running 1.3.5 due to how the apps open Jan 17 15:20:13 other phone? Jan 17 15:20:34 in the second half of the video they switch phones Jan 17 15:20:44 they have one to demo gaming and one to demo video Jan 17 15:20:53 I see Jan 17 15:21:15 different kernel maybe? Jan 17 15:21:24 or different dspbridge setup Jan 17 15:21:32 did pre have SprintTV? Jan 17 15:21:41 yeah Jan 17 15:21:57 did it work? Jan 17 15:22:24 yeahh Jan 17 15:22:24 http://www.youtube.com/user/Palm#p/u/2/0qiLF6_odrc Jan 17 15:22:31 im watching all the new palm videos Jan 17 15:22:37 probably gonna be verizon commercials :P Jan 17 15:22:46 the first Pre release I mean Jan 17 15:23:15 yeah, sprinttv works on my pre.. Jan 17 15:23:25 cool Jan 17 15:23:34 know if it's ip based or qtv? Jan 17 15:23:47 no idea :( Jan 17 15:23:47 or mediaflo Jan 17 15:24:04 tcpdump? Jan 17 15:41:05 ~seen dtzWill Jan 17 15:41:08 dtzwill is currently on #webos-internals. Has said a total of 118 messages. Is idling for 5h 39m 54s, last said: 'Kyusaku: idk :/. controls/info: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:VBA#Controls'. Jan 17 15:42:15 xcomp: ping Jan 17 15:42:28 so you know what is bad about removing the button on the Pre (and I also said this about the pixi the first time I saw it) Jan 17 15:42:39 the button is like so easy your grandma can use it simple Jan 17 15:43:30 and it was the one thing I said was a nice thing Palm did to sorta mock the ease of use-a-bility of the iPhone, because it truly is so easy my grandma can use Jan 17 15:44:10 Now you have a little bit of learning curve for newcomers to smart phones that they're going to have to either learn gestures or be told repeatedly that "touching this area is a button" Jan 17 16:05:32 what button? Jan 17 16:06:13 The front button Jan 17 16:07:12 the button shows you something exists there and it makes it even intuitive enough that my 2 year old has learned how to use the action button to get back to launcher and load his favorite app Jan 17 16:17:18 using webosqi 2.9.6 on my pre (1.3.5.1) -- trying to install certain tweaks/patches errors out saying the patch is already installed...but its not, i restored the .orig files on the pre filesystem, and diff'd them against the webOS.tar from webosdoctor -- so is it that the patches themselves have not been updated for webos1.3.5.1 ? Jan 17 16:25:02 ok i have a working patch...wonder where i can send it Jan 17 16:34:29 rwhitby: nslu2-log still broken Jan 17 16:34:49 or not, that was a browser cache this time Jan 17 16:37:37 not sure why webos doesn't seem to notice when its cache isn't current and fetch a new page Jan 17 16:38:32 Decimate: it's been said that the pre plus will ship with 1.3.5 Jan 17 16:44:29 im trying to compile some things for the pre but i always end up with an error that zlib is missing, i am running ubuntu 9.10 and zlib is definatly installed Jan 17 16:45:06 heyo! Jan 17 16:45:29 anyone know the status of rdesktop? Jan 17 16:46:42 Sonic-NKT: your host machine's zlib, or the pre's version of zlib is installed ? Jan 17 16:47:12 bpadalino: installed the devel packages Jan 17 16:48:06 that sounds like the host which probably isn't the right thing for cross compiling? Jan 17 16:48:35 Sonic-NKT: you need a libz in your scratchbox2 staging area Jan 17 16:48:57 includes and ARM lib Jan 17 16:49:04 seems to be but how to fix this, if i run configure outside of scratchbox everything is working fine. if i run it in scratchbox it gives me an error Jan 17 16:49:23 how to get it there, sorry crosscompiling is completly new to me :) Jan 17 16:49:37 Sonic-NKT: when you run in scratchbox it ignores /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib and /usr/include and /usr/local/include from the host Jan 17 16:50:25 easiest thing is to build and install the palm pre's library after getting it and its patch and applying its patch, all from opensource.palm.com Jan 17 16:50:42 if you make and make install from inside sb2 it'll go in the right place Jan 17 16:51:53 so i get the zlib package from palm, compile and install it from sb2 Jan 17 16:51:57 yup Jan 17 16:52:15 ah ok thanks, will try that :) Jan 17 16:53:48 do i also need the patches? Jan 17 16:56:29 anyone have experience using the webos-internals git repo Jan 17 17:01:30 destinal: just downloaded zlib, ran configure make and make install (with no errors) but it still reports zlib is missing Jan 17 17:02:26 destinal: it seems like scratchbox has installed those in /usr/local/lib anyway, atleast that it was make install prints out Jan 17 17:02:42 a fake /usr/local/lib Jan 17 17:02:54 sb2 has some directory mapping tricks Jan 17 17:03:12 assuming you ran it with the proper -M mappingfile Jan 17 17:03:33 followed the tutorial on webos-internals Jan 17 17:04:08 using pkg-config? Jan 17 17:04:10 running it with sb2 - M /srv/..../mapping-armv7 Jan 17 17:04:11 or configure Jan 17 17:04:19 whois dBsooner Jan 17 17:04:22 it maps /usr/local to /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/armv7/usr Jan 17 17:04:32 so your libs get to go into /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/armv7/usr/lib Jan 17 17:05:26 libz is in that folder ... Jan 17 17:05:34 what about the includes Jan 17 17:05:56 includes? sorry noob ;) Jan 17 17:05:59 /usr/local/include in the sb2 or /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/armv7/usr/include Jan 17 17:06:15 will check that Jan 17 17:06:20 you should have a zlib.h Jan 17 17:06:54 where? Jan 17 17:07:00 I just said Jan 17 17:07:29 sry, yes it is at that location Jan 17 17:07:37 what are you trying to build? Jan 17 17:07:46 gngeo-0.7 Jan 17 17:13:23 Sonic-NKT: try this Jan 17 17:13:35 export LIBS="-Wl,-rpath-link=/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib" Jan 17 17:14:05 export CFLAGS="-I/usr/local/include" Jan 17 17:14:06 what's the best way to get my ssh key on the pre? Jan 17 17:14:10 in sb 2? Jan 17 17:14:21 Sonic-NKT: then run ./configure Jan 17 17:14:30 Sonic-NKT: yes Jan 17 17:15:31 export CFLAGS="-I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include/SDL" Jan 17 17:15:33 rather Jan 17 17:16:24 their configure doesn't seem to want to look in /usr/local, no idea why Jan 17 17:16:37 thanks will try it Jan 17 17:18:06 Sonic-NKT: err the makefiles they generate are still screwed up Jan 17 17:20:20 right now it tells me gcc is missing... after those export commands :) Jan 17 17:21:20 Sonic-NKT: that doesn't make a lot of sense. Jan 17 17:22:26 yes was my mistake, made in error in the one command Jan 17 17:23:07 ok configure was fine now Jan 17 17:23:17 but make wont work? Jan 17 17:23:32 make will fail, it's using -I/usr/include/SDL not -I/usr/local/include/SDL -- not a very smart configure script Jan 17 17:23:46 and there's no --with-sdl-prefix option in configure Jan 17 17:23:49 is work on Terminal stopped now with type:game now possible? Jan 17 17:24:08 CoolMatty: no, I'm banging my head against a segfault bug right now Jan 17 17:24:16 but I haven't given up terminal Jan 17 17:24:26 yeah, mine crashes on startup Jan 17 17:24:36 and crashes luna it looks like, or at least luna restarts Jan 17 17:26:02 destinal: is there a way to "easily" fix this? Jan 17 17:28:40 CoolMatty: so, yeah, this is a segmentation fault happening in a deallocation function, I'm trying to debug it but everything seems to be functioning the same way it did before 1.3.5 Jan 17 17:28:45 I think the internalz app should be able to open up compiled programs. It would be alot easier to do then terminal :P Jan 17 17:28:48 which was stable with the same versions of terminal Jan 17 17:28:54 right Jan 17 17:29:10 can't wait to see a fix, glad to see it hasn't been dropped ;) Jan 17 17:30:03 Also it would be neat if terminal saved the last directory you were in or atleast have an option to do so. Jan 17 17:30:34 hi Jan 17 17:31:18 speaking about terminal: is it still the issue it looses its current dir when openeing the key help menu? Jan 17 17:32:06 I need sime help to create a patch file Jan 17 17:32:24 MetaView: yeah I believe that issue is still there Jan 17 17:32:49 I made the changes to have a radiomode (2G/3G/Auto) in the device menu Jan 17 17:33:11 how can I create a patch? I've tried WinMerge, but WebOsQuickInstal still complains Jan 17 17:33:21 destinal: it's a pity Jan 17 17:33:30 isn't there a patch for that already? Jan 17 17:33:46 no, nothing working in 1.3.5 Jan 17 17:33:52 Sonic-NKT: you can fix all the makefiles Jan 17 17:33:59 there is something just for German Pres Jan 17 17:34:06 Sonic-NKT: or inside sb2 you can: ln -s /usr/local/include/SDL /usr/include/SDL Jan 17 17:34:11 oh thats right, my phone menu just has roaming or data off, no 3g/1xRTT option Jan 17 17:34:15 but real files, I made it even nicer: with a submenu Jan 17 17:34:36 Sonic-NKT: but then it's missing opengl headers and opengl will need ported to opengl-es which is very non-trivial Jan 17 17:34:57 Sonic-NKT: I think this one may be beyond both of us Jan 17 17:35:06 CoolMatty: are you experinced in creating Patches? Jan 17 17:35:36 destinal: oh ok... but is opengl needed? Jan 17 17:36:02 Sonic-NKT: not sure if it can build without, if so it may work Jan 17 17:36:26 i will give it a try :) Jan 17 17:36:49 haha crashed after 5 secs with GL errors :D Jan 17 17:37:03 well you'll need to reconfigure or change defines Jan 17 17:37:12 as I said, it's missing things Jan 17 17:39:00 MetaView: no I'm not. If I was there would probably be double the patches that exist today >.> Jan 17 17:39:26 ok, who can create the patch file for me? Jan 17 17:39:49 hape_: sup? :) Jan 17 17:40:30 is egaudet or rwhitby here? I'd like to participate in alpha testing AUPT Jan 17 17:40:55 hey dtzWill: little "bug" with rom selection: it shows "hidden" files. that is, ones with . in front of the name. Jan 17 17:41:02 becomes an issue if you upload roms from a Mac :p Jan 17 17:41:13 sad that gngeo is so hard to compile, it is great for arm as it has allready several optimizations build in :( Jan 17 17:45:28 CoolMatty: oh yeah it'll do that :). i suppose i should fix that Jan 17 17:45:33 * dtzWill|away adds to wiki. Jan 17 17:52:43 Sonic-NKT: I'm looking at the gp2x switches Jan 17 17:52:54 Sonic-NKT: as you say, looks arm optimized Jan 17 17:54:48 gp2x could be sweet Jan 17 17:55:32 MAME GP2X and GnGeo2x Jan 17 17:55:33 :D Jan 17 17:55:36 yeah and it seems like it has several cpu cores included that are heavily ARM asm optimized. would be very cool if we could get this to compile :) Jan 17 17:55:36 im excited Jan 17 17:56:23 too bad the phone dont have better game controls Jan 17 17:56:34 when are they gonna make a ps3 controller phone combo Jan 17 17:56:46 PuffTheMagic: yup, need to look at bluetooth some more so we can use a zeemote Jan 17 17:56:55 the joys could be the mouthpiece and earpiece Jan 17 17:57:08 :) Jan 17 17:57:32 how to hide a directory in the internal drive in a way it is skipped by the FileBrowser Widget? Jan 17 17:57:50 that is if we can buy a zeemote, are they going out of business? Jan 17 17:58:07 I have code from Palm OS for Wiimote support in LJP, just in case you are interested Jan 17 17:58:48 and there is a BT gamepad which works just over a VfComm connection Jan 17 17:59:07 file browser widget? Jan 17 17:59:25 yes, the one you have to select a file, image etc Jan 17 17:59:28 MetaView: well, before we can do anything, we need a working stack. I got btstack working but it didn't seem to be doing much, I wonder if it speaks the right language to talk to /dev/btuart Jan 17 17:59:38 * destinal knows very little about bt chipsets Jan 17 17:59:39 it shows all map tiles from MapTool, it's annoying Jan 17 18:00:10 Sonic-NKT: NICE, gl with gngeo :) Jan 17 18:00:17 MetaView: try a directory starting in . (period) Jan 17 18:00:41 I just renamed it and restarted LunaSysMgr, didn't help Jan 17 18:00:43 dtzWill|away: well it's not working yet, but it would be nice Jan 17 18:01:51 dtzWill|away: GLES with evas/ecore first!!!! Jan 17 18:04:32 destinal: essentially the speak hci commands Jan 17 18:04:55 PuffTheMagic: hte folder is called .MapTool and I even renamed one of the .png into .pn_ the FileBrowser still shows it. Jan 17 18:05:32 have a pre here that I replaced with another one and now I can't get any information from it (from homebrew apps) because I'm stuck at activation screen... Jan 17 18:05:55 am I screwed? or can I bypass activation to get to what I need? Jan 17 18:06:57 idk then Jan 17 18:07:08 a pity, thx Jan 17 18:07:08 is there an equivalent of a webos doctor for iphone or android? or can you actually brick those devices with software? Jan 17 18:07:10 why not put the dir you dont want shown in a different dir Jan 17 18:07:38 To allow the user to download the files on the desktop and transfer them to the Pre Jan 17 18:08:13 will the meta-doctor activation process remove all of my data? Jan 17 18:08:25 I could download the files on the Pre, but it' Jan 17 18:08:34 s quite a lot and takes quite a time Jan 17 18:10:40 tmzt: are different chipsets interchangable in terms of just opening a uart and talking HCI or are there quirks? Jan 17 18:11:00 I mean is it unreasonable to expect an iphone chipset and the pre chipset's uarts to behave the same? Jan 17 18:11:16 is there an equivalent of a webos doctor for iphone or android? or can you actually brick those devices with software? Jan 17 18:11:40 they both look to be serial at 115200 Jan 17 18:11:57 destinal: mostly, why iPhone? Jan 17 18:12:06 3gs is bcm I think Jan 17 18:12:07 tmzt: btstack is mostly used on iphone Jan 17 18:12:30 sryan-2: try #android-root Jan 17 18:12:37 tmzt: it's lightweight and simple so I thought it should be easy Jan 17 18:13:07 hmm Jan 17 18:13:13 anyone know how I can alpha test AUPT? Jan 17 18:13:19 what chip is pre? Jan 17 18:13:35 this has nothing to do with that ioctl though Jan 17 18:13:40 anyone here know if bypassing activation on a pre will remove all data on it? Jan 17 18:16:03 tmzt: phonewreck mentions csr 63823 Jan 17 18:17:48 tmzt: possible pre could use BCSP instead? Jan 17 18:18:18 instead of H4 I mean Jan 17 18:24:33 timepants! Jan 17 18:24:37 :O Jan 17 18:24:48 timepants: you have FIOS! I'm jealous Jan 17 18:24:53 haha Jan 17 18:25:05 yeah i've had it for almost 2 years now Jan 17 18:25:28 yet I just got around to cancelling cable 3 weeks ago >.> Jan 17 18:26:22 tmzt: I'm guessing the bluetooth chipset on the pre would still probably support h4, any with bcsp seem to support h4 as well so ar Jan 17 18:27:05 unless I'm totally misreading this Jan 17 18:31:04 PmBtStack -h returns some help, looks like PmBtStack -C /dev/btuart will start it Jan 17 18:34:58 PuffTheMagic: the '.' as fiurst char works, is just you need to reboot the device, luna restart isn't enough Jan 17 18:36:05 PuffTheMagic: does the e* stuff build now in build.git? last few times i pulled i ended up pushing them to nonworking (locally) so I could get on with things (didn't have time to fix; maybe it's easy/simple, and possibly even just my end) Jan 17 18:36:36 geist: ping Jan 17 18:36:56 PuffTheMagic: e* i mean evas/ecore etc to be clearer Jan 17 18:37:56 bah people still have issues launching, even with type:game. Jan 17 18:38:11 dtzWill|away: are the permissions right? Jan 17 18:38:18 maybe it's the mytether, etc, idk. Jan 17 18:38:24 dtzWill|away: yeah could be Jan 17 18:38:37 dtzWill|away: you'd have to have them run it by hand to see what error Jan 17 18:38:41 destinal: interesting question, i didn't explicitly set them, and it *does* work for some people, which is why it's most frustrating :) Jan 17 18:39:04 dtzWill|away: if you used the game-fix script I setup, the permissions will be right Jan 17 18:39:19 destinal: can you run from launcher 'by hand'? --although I haven't isolated that it's the launcher and not the binary. i'll see if i can't ask them to run it Jan 17 18:39:49 well you can palm-launch from the SDK connected to it or you can use luna send to call the service to launch them Jan 17 18:39:56 destinal: destinal that seemed to be integrated with palm-package, etc, and i didn't see a clean way (immediately, anyway) to merge that into the build.git building system Jan 17 18:39:59 destinal: kk Jan 17 18:40:04 dtzWill|away: idk, xcomp said he got it working but idk if he pushed it yet Jan 17 18:40:14 PuffTheMagic: kk Jan 17 18:40:18 PuffTheMagic: ty for the info Jan 17 18:40:29 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/launch etc Jan 17 18:40:36 destinal: thanks for all the effort/work documenting this stuff heh, sorry if I apparently am messing it up :) Jan 17 18:40:47 destinal: im using my pre as a dhcp gateway for my laptop and ps3 though linksysrouter :D Jan 17 18:41:01 PuffTheMagic: lol. cool. Jan 17 18:41:13 Can anyone give me instructions on how to alpha test AUPT? I know i have to doctor to 1.3.1, but what do i do after that Jan 17 18:41:26 I keep getting this error: "an error occured: invalid session, this most likely means the server has restarted; close this dialog and then try refreshing the page." anyone know why Jan 17 18:41:26 destinal: next freetether might be a "type:game" Jan 17 18:41:27 ;) Jan 17 18:41:57 PuffTheMagic: how did you wire up the linksys router to the pre? or do you have something like openwrt / dd-wrt and just set up the connection and route? Jan 17 18:42:01 destinal: also, it seems when upgrading from the upstart-based to type:game, at least what i did, requires a luna restart for many. is this expected, etc? Jan 17 18:42:51 destinal: its not, its connected to my laptop, static route between laptop and accesspoint, and then i briged my usb and wifi ports on my lappy Jan 17 18:42:53 PuffTheMagic: or just use the router as an AP and turn off its own dhcp? Jan 17 18:43:07 PuffTheMagic: aha Jan 17 18:44:44 PuffTheMagic: that's awesome :) <3 tethering goodness. Jan 17 18:44:56 PuffTheMagic: you working on freetether then? or via existing usb/bt/etc? Jan 17 18:47:01 hahaa, PmBtStart has an amusing way of getting a random number Jan 17 18:47:03 btid="$ID:`dd if=/dev/urandom bs=2 count=1 | hexdump -e '1/1 \"%02x:\"'`" Jan 17 18:47:45 kind of clever really Jan 17 18:47:55 haha Jan 17 18:50:40 aha, maybe I should be trying /dev/ttyS2 Jan 17 18:51:03 non-high-speed UART, apparently still talked to at 115200 Jan 17 18:51:07 dtzWill|away: :D Jan 17 18:51:46 destinal: thats sorta how i get my random numbers too Jan 17 18:52:07 . . /dev/urandom is awesome Jan 17 18:52:21 just never saw a shell script use it directly before Jan 17 18:53:12 it would be cool if I was just trying the wrong device Jan 17 18:53:20 just wanted to let everyone know I was able to connect to a cisco asa5520 w vpnc Jan 17 18:53:43 OldCrowEW: cool Jan 17 18:54:05 a friend of mine used it to talk to a cisco concentrator of some kind as well Jan 17 18:54:15 on pre Jan 17 18:54:51 the instructions are on precentral but several people reported issues. I didn't experience any at all Jan 17 18:58:09 OldCrowEW: I wouldn't be surprised if these were people who had hosed up their kernel with mytether Jan 17 18:59:48 ha, I net. Jan 17 19:00:12 oh pre fail. bet not net Jan 17 19:02:45 I wish I knew of some simple way to ping the bluetooth chipset with an HCI command and have it respond Jan 17 19:02:55 I guess I should start reading the protocol documents Jan 17 19:04:19 there should be a linux command for that Jan 17 19:04:27 what does the google say? Jan 17 19:04:44 OldCrowEW: it's stack dependent. most linux uses bluez Jan 17 19:04:48 no bluez here Jan 17 19:05:06 I'm trying a completely new bluetooth stack, here be dragons Jan 17 19:06:06 what I need is to just make the simplest possible "stack" just to test bluetooth and make sure I understand whether this stack is even portable to the pre and what changes need to be made Jan 17 19:06:19 I would think the bluez stack should give you enough hints to get you going Jan 17 19:06:40 * timepants puts on his dragon slaying outfit Jan 17 19:07:11 people tell me to just port bluez, but then we actually have to manage bluez Jan 17 19:07:30 for now something simple would be nice Jan 17 19:10:49 yup Jan 17 19:15:19 * dtzWill|away gets his dragon book Jan 17 19:15:29 wait that doesn't help at all :P Jan 17 19:17:07 destinal: agreed that bluez is probably more trouble than it's worth :/ Jan 17 19:18:00 dtzWill: yeah, I've seen that iphone has success with keyboards, controllers, etc with btstack and it should be easily packaged and put in preware once it works Jan 17 19:18:06 KISS principle Jan 17 19:18:33 once I understand more about bluetooth, maybe I can tackle a much larger project Jan 17 19:18:57 destinal: sounds absolutely fantastic. KISS ftw Jan 17 19:23:02 destinal: you want to implement another bluetooth stack for the pre? Jan 17 19:23:29 morphis: yeah, well, I'm trying to port btstack (http://code.google.com/p/btstack/) Jan 17 19:23:46 morphis: the stack on the pre as shipped is proprietary / closed source and has no HID profiles Jan 17 19:24:08 destinal: jep I know Jan 17 19:24:21 destinal: but do have tried to bluez on the pre? Jan 17 19:24:52 morphis: I don't really understand bluez so i was going for simplicity Jan 17 19:25:23 morphis: oh, hi .. i didn't notice you come in Jan 17 19:25:23 ah ok Jan 17 19:25:40 bpadalino: ah you here, great :) Jan 17 19:25:49 great indeed! Jan 17 19:25:53 how are things ? Jan 17 19:25:59 bpadalino: it's ok cause I even do not notice that you are here :) Jan 17 19:26:08 i'm very incognito Jan 17 19:26:15 bpadalino: great, msmcommd is going to work in the next few days Jan 17 19:26:31 morphis: iphone with btstack http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FPHpMonoC8 Jan 17 19:26:38 today I implemented some simple forwarding tool to run the program on my local pc an not on the pre Jan 17 19:26:42 morphis: wow - that was some quick work! Jan 17 19:27:20 bpadalino: jepp, yesterday I noticed that I need some different ioctl's to configure the hsuart on the pre Jan 17 19:27:31 bpadalino: before I did normal setup for a serial line Jan 17 19:27:41 and I wonder why I receive nothing :D Jan 17 19:27:48 hehe Jan 17 19:28:31 destinal: I think the important point for the pre is that we have some open bluetooth implementation running Jan 17 19:28:48 if it is bluez or btsack should be much less important Jan 17 19:29:16 bluez could be a complete replacement for stock stack (with a lot of work) Jan 17 19:29:28 btstack is hid-focused Jan 17 19:29:43 so you'd have to switch stacks Jan 17 19:29:48 before use Jan 17 19:30:09 ah ok Jan 17 19:31:02 destinal: so there currently no other profiles available than hidd ones? Jan 17 19:31:07 whichever one we do, we're going to probably want to create a hidd plugin (also proprietary so we have to reverse engineer) so that we can use stock keyboards Jan 17 19:31:19 morphis: hidd is not what you think Jan 17 19:31:45 morphis: hidd takes all the built in hardware and presents it to luna with dbus Jan 17 19:31:54 it uses a plugin architecture Jan 17 19:32:36 so the proximity switch, power button, touchscreen, keyboard, etc etc Jan 17 19:32:42 each have their own plugins Jan 17 19:33:05 sorry I meant hid not hidd Jan 17 19:33:09 oh Jan 17 19:33:12 I know hidd Jan 17 19:33:12 nevermind then Jan 17 19:33:38 I even take a short look at when I am tried to discover how the touchcsreen works Jan 17 19:33:58 morphis: the plugins provide one function which returns a callback table Jan 17 19:34:04 jepp Jan 17 19:34:14 there are several plugins in /usr/lib Jan 17 19:34:16 structs are kind of hard to reverse engineer Jan 17 19:34:30 like what is in that table, exactly? not just pointers but certainly some Jan 17 19:34:40 destinal: I know I am the one who does all the work on the TIL :) Jan 17 19:35:30 morphis: til? Jan 17 19:35:38 TelephonyInterfaceLayer Jan 17 19:35:47 the part for the modem in the pre Jan 17 19:35:55 ah Jan 17 19:37:09 cool Jan 17 19:37:32 morphis: so any tips on figuring out an arbitrary struct for this callback table? :) Jan 17 19:37:40 morphis is quite a smart guy Jan 17 19:37:49 destinal, thats all handled by hid processes instead of hal? Jan 17 19:37:57 acydlord: yes Jan 17 19:38:19 weird, i need to take more looks through the source lol Jan 17 19:38:24 SDL stuff works because it also talks to hidd. I should probably look at the sdl patch Jan 17 19:38:29 anywho shower time for me Jan 17 19:38:47 even though we're missing the hidd headers Jan 17 19:39:12 (palm's source code releases are often incomplete that way -- did anyone point it out to palm?) Jan 17 19:40:51 morphis: there are basically the a2dp, sco, and remote control (avrpc or something) profiles in the stock proprietary stack Jan 17 19:41:11 morphis: there are basically the a2dp, sco, and remote control (avrpc or something) profiles in the stock proprietary stack Jan 17 19:41:24 not much more Jan 17 19:41:30 ah ok Jan 17 19:41:40 so it would be the best to get bluez running Jan 17 19:42:12 morphis: well, if we want a comprehensive stack, yes, but we'd have to provide a lot of luna service support Jan 17 19:42:32 basically handle everything it can already do now and then the rest Jan 17 19:43:41 and i know almost nothing about bluez Jan 17 19:44:09 I was aiming at the relatively easier target of mice, keyboards, controllers Jan 17 19:44:17 ok, than I am very fine with getting btstack running Jan 17 19:44:40 the downside is only one can talk to the UART at once, so we do indeed need a stack switcher control panel Jan 17 19:45:10 switch between palm stack and btstack (maybe eventually bluez same way) Jan 17 19:45:52 could be done with upstart service Jan 17 19:46:35 but before any of that, I just want to know why I can't talk to the bluetooth uart in a meaningful way. I have much to learn, I think Jan 17 19:56:59 bpadalino: you are still want to help me with the modem stuff? Jan 17 19:57:22 morphis: yeah i'd love to .. in any way i can help Jan 17 19:57:34 i don't own a GSM pre .. just a CDMA one Jan 17 19:58:04 not sure how different the modem interfaces are for them .. or if they are different at all Jan 17 20:00:19 has anyone else noticed that the latest update to VBA actually decreased performance? Jan 17 20:04:22 dangerskew: i hope not :(. particular game? across the board? how much? Jan 17 20:05:09 o_O okay then Jan 17 20:05:51 bpadalino: I think they are different in some little stuff Jan 17 20:06:00 but all in all they should be the same Jan 17 20:06:24 what you can do: you can provide me some debug logs from you cdma pre Jan 17 20:06:31 morphis: sounds good .. just let me know what you'd like me to do, and i'll give it a shot Jan 17 20:06:40 great Jan 17 20:06:59 I will write you a mail tomorrow, or send you a link to an entry in the webos-internals wiki Jan 17 20:07:10 sounds good Jan 17 20:14:18 the best Pandora music channel Jan 17 20:14:24 "Ghostface Radio" Jan 17 20:14:25 :D Jan 17 20:39:38 rwhitby: you here? Jan 17 20:39:47 egaudet: you here? Jan 17 20:41:55 wow, you can actually set the APN in 1.3.5.1 Jan 17 20:42:00 was that always like that? Jan 17 20:45:11 Channel seems very quiet Jan 17 20:45:34 channel is usually quiet around this time Jan 17 20:46:56 Well I've been asking since this morning but no one ever responds. Can someone show me how to participate in alpha testing AUPT? Jan 17 20:47:13 Whats AUPT? Jan 17 20:47:54 Auto-Update Patch Technology Jan 17 20:47:56 auto update patch technology Jan 17 20:48:26 I got freeciv building and running on my pre. Crashes if you click around too much though and no right click Jan 17 20:49:21 I know I have to doctor to 1.3.1, but is it safe to go from1.3.5.1 to 1.3.1? Jan 17 20:50:29 it's not unsafe, doctoring completely removes the current image and loads the one in use onto the device Jan 17 20:51:15 "not unsafe" Jan 17 20:51:24 double negative Jan 17 20:51:27 exactly Jan 17 20:51:44 So there should be no problems with my Palm Profile erasing anything? Jan 17 20:52:05 from what I know, it's almost impossible to brick a pre Jan 17 20:52:12 don't know about paid for apps Jan 17 20:52:17 or contacts etc Jan 17 20:52:23 that stuff will probably be gone Jan 17 20:53:09 I think I read somewhere that contacts imported through web services don't sync. Jan 17 20:53:18 Oh. I have my contacts and calendars synced with Google. Jan 17 20:53:47 Not really a problem then Jan 17 20:55:19 i moved all my contacts to google after the fiasco with the contacts in the palm profile getting erased Jan 17 20:55:41 paid apps download when you sign into your profile Jan 17 20:56:12 Full Erase and then WebOS Doctor is the best way to make sure everything is "out-of-the-box" stock? Jan 17 20:56:33 full erase followed by webos doctor is redundant Jan 17 20:56:46 lol Jan 17 20:56:48 webos doctor basically does a full erase Jan 17 20:56:56 acydlord: no, it's not, /media/internals isn't wiped Jan 17 20:56:57 acydlord, no it's not redundant Jan 17 20:56:58 by doctor Jan 17 20:57:07 /media/internal Jan 17 20:57:20 every time ive doctored /media/internal was wiped Jan 17 20:57:29 I've read and experienced that Doctor does not erase the /media/internal partition Jan 17 20:57:30 acydlord: have you doctored after 1.3.2? Jan 17 20:57:38 it used to do it Jan 17 20:57:38 gollyzila, you test aupt you will have to manually adjust your patches feeds to point to correct testing patch feed for webos version Jan 17 20:57:44 Full Erase doesn't touch system files Jan 17 20:57:45 yeah, 1.3.2 to 1.3.5 on the pixi wiped everything Jan 17 20:57:47 s/you test/to test/ Jan 17 20:57:47 egaudet meant: gollyzila, to test aupt you will have to manually adjust your patches feeds to point to correct testing patch feed for webos version Jan 17 20:57:59 acydlord: maybe a pixi thing, no idea Jan 17 20:58:11 pre's don't any more Jan 17 20:58:12 full erase wipes /media/internal. doctor wipes everything else Jan 17 20:58:19 ahh Jan 17 20:58:24 noted for future reference Jan 17 20:58:40 i still havent had the heart to doctor my pre again Jan 17 20:58:40 egaudet: What file do i have to edit? Jan 17 20:58:52 /etc/ipkg/webos-patches.conf Jan 17 20:58:54 last time it took nearly 2 hours to link all the profiles in my contacts Jan 17 20:58:58 err Jan 17 20:59:05 do u have to do full erase before doctor? Jan 17 20:59:06 /media/internal/apps/etc/ipkg/webos-patches.conf Jan 17 20:59:11 Full Erase clears media partition and profile data, WebOS Doctor wipes the OS but not the media partition Jan 17 20:59:33 doctor doesn't erase cryptofs? So apps remain after doctor? Jan 17 20:59:42 Jolting: yes Jan 17 20:59:53 good thing too, I don't want to download xplane again :P Jan 17 20:59:54 i didnt do full erase on my boys i just doctored it and know his patches are stuck like there installed? Jan 17 21:00:14 JMyaDaGod: patches are evil Jan 17 21:00:24 a full erase will have patches still in the OS Jan 17 21:00:47 JMyaDaGod: if you doctor without erase, the ipkg lib will still THINK patches are installed Jan 17 21:00:48 is there a way to get rid of patches thinking they are installed without a a full erase ? Jan 17 21:00:49 in fact they are not Jan 17 21:00:50 webOS doctor should reset any patched files to default Jan 17 21:00:51 JMyaDaGod, you can do partial erase to get rid of the ipkg data Jan 17 21:00:52 or just keeps media? Jan 17 21:01:01 JMyaDaGod: you can manually remove them from the ipkg lib Jan 17 21:01:13 JMyaDaGod: we should really fix up ipkgservice so it can force remove Jan 17 21:01:25 destinal, I don't think so Jan 17 21:01:41 egaudet: why? removing them by hand is a pita Jan 17 21:01:43 ok so what are my options as of right now to make preware stop thinking they are installed? Jan 17 21:01:44 the old rule of anything a user can do they will do. It's worse to have patches installed WITHOUT the ipkg data than vice versa Jan 17 21:01:59 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove *patches* Jan 17 21:02:12 nevermind Jan 17 21:02:23 egaudet : type that in terminal? Jan 17 21:02:29 JMyaDaGod, yea Jan 17 21:02:35 egaudet :thanks Jan 17 21:02:50 egaudet: /media/internal/apps is not present on my phone? It is running 1.3.5.1. Will it show once I'm on 1.3.1? Jan 17 21:03:11 egaudet: what happens if he really has patches installed should i remove them first? Jan 17 21:03:19 destinal, although we could do something smart with AUPT to "reinstall" all. I think the long term solution is multi-package install/remove in preware Jan 17 21:03:27 yes remove them Jan 17 21:03:34 JMyaDaGod, yes Jan 17 21:03:38 run EPR Jan 17 21:03:46 or manually remove the ones he's installed since the doctor Jan 17 21:03:57 egaudet: sometimes it would be nice to have a nice gui around power-user functionality. this is where you and rod differ from me Jan 17 21:04:00 egaudet :ok remove theme ....EPR than run command in terminal? Jan 17 21:04:01 xcomp: ping Jan 17 21:04:20 gollyzila, it's /media/cryptofs/apps Jan 17 21:04:21 sorry Jan 17 21:04:39 just because I CAN do something at command line doesn't mean I want to Jan 17 21:04:47 preware is for more than just AM Jan 17 21:04:59 I agree Jan 17 21:05:08 at the least it has to be undocumented/difficult to do though Jan 17 21:05:25 something like special code to enter in preware prefs to unlock power-user "unsafe" functionality Jan 17 21:05:27 egaudet: no, I don't WANT it to be difficult, otherwise I wouldn't have it there Jan 17 21:05:36 right, a simple shoot myself in foot switch Jan 17 21:05:43 destinal, "difficult" meaning AM difficult not i know what im doing difficult Jan 17 21:06:03 egaudet: sure, not likely to be stumbled on Jan 17 21:06:05 But I think this is all solved with multi-package remove/install anyway Jan 17 21:06:09 go into prefs and set it to adavnced Jan 17 21:06:16 Has anyone tried to run the Garnet VM on the Pre? Just downloading and trying it now Jan 17 21:06:34 egaudet: Alright. I'm editing the file now just as a test before I do the real thing. What is the url of the alpha patch repository? Jan 17 21:07:29 src/gz webos-patches http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-patches/testing/1.3.5.1 Jan 17 21:07:40 note it's just adding testing/ after webos-patches Jan 17 21:08:34 So when I'm actually on 1.3.1, should I put 1.3.1 in that url? Jan 17 21:09:21 gollyzila, yes. When you go to 1.3.1 the ipkgservice will automatically adjust that file for you I believe Jan 17 21:09:28 to 1.3.1, but not have the testing in it Jan 17 21:09:53 so youll have to adjust it to 1.3.1 testing, then after OTA with a bunch of patches installed you have to go back in and adjust it to 1.3.5 testing Jan 17 21:10:08 here are the screenshots for the apn feature btw: http://blog.marc-seeger.de/2010/01/17/How_to_change_the_APN_on_the_Palm_Pre Jan 17 21:10:39 egaudet: Gottcha. And i should Full Erase and Doctor, correct? Jan 17 21:11:12 probably be best yeah Jan 17 21:13:01 Alright, Full Erase initiated. Hopefully I didn't forget anything Jan 17 21:13:23 egaudet: my point re: difficult is difficult to get advanced / dangerous options accidentally. if you say, I know what I'm doing, you should get more options that may or may not be safe Jan 17 21:13:32 but it should be only a couple of clicks to switch to said mode Jan 17 21:15:23 egaudet, rwhitby: http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/?do=browse&webosver=all&category=all Jan 17 21:15:30 Sorting = DONE! Jan 17 21:15:30 right. difficult I just meant unsupported not documented. Jan 17 21:16:32 egaudet-wirc: it can be documented Jan 17 21:17:09 i disagree Jan 17 21:17:14 just like we have documents on how to do dangerous things at command line which if you do, we tell you so sorry, doctor your phone Jan 17 21:17:15 crapshakes. i forgot to delete my patches before i full erase. Now my phone is frozen. But no worries, WebOS Dr. should fix that Jan 17 21:17:31 command line is something AM stays away from anyway Jan 17 21:17:44 egaudet: I'm totally fed up with these AM considerations Jan 17 21:17:45 gui ability AM ventures into anything without caring about warnings Jan 17 21:17:47 want to disown AM Jan 17 21:17:49 they try everything Jan 17 21:18:01 destinal, it's the support Jan 17 21:18:04 If we don't look out for AM, our usage will drop by 80% Jan 17 21:18:07 either we support nothing or consider AM Jan 17 21:18:18 egaudet: big scary buttons scare them away too Jan 17 21:18:24 and we treat it no differently Jan 17 21:18:44 than if they sed'd their LunaSysMgr binary and broke everything Jan 17 21:18:45 destinal, people use QI to install/remove things, get an error and just click ok through and keep going with more Jan 17 21:18:56 all I hear is "I used QI, i got some errors but who cares it worked" Jan 17 21:19:03 they do not care about anything, they just try everything Jan 17 21:19:10 you have this mentality that we have to CARE when people do something stupid Jan 17 21:19:16 we don't currently do so Jan 17 21:19:18 destinal, we do because we SUPPORT it Jan 17 21:19:21 we won't have to do so Jan 17 21:19:31 no change Jan 17 21:19:44 no support? Jan 17 21:19:48 that would be wrong of us Jan 17 21:19:58 if you shot yourself in the foot, go to a hospital Jan 17 21:20:01 AM? Jan 17 21:20:01 it's not a gun support issue Jan 17 21:20:14 destinal, the thing is AM doesn't say "I shot myself in the foot". They say "My leg doesn't work right now" Jan 17 21:20:26 egaudet, what does "AM" stand for? Jan 17 21:20:30 Aunt Minnie Jan 17 21:20:33 we still say, oh, you shot yourself in the foot, go to the hospital Jan 17 21:20:37 not our fault Jan 17 21:20:38 I thought average moron, ok :) Jan 17 21:20:57 and if so many AM's get into bad situations, and we just ignore them all, then the word is that Preware is buggy etc... Jan 17 21:20:59 crippling tools is not the way Jan 17 21:21:10 destinal, the point is it takes time to get to the point of "you shot yourself in the foot" Jan 17 21:21:10 I hate lobotomizing stuff for lowest common denominator Jan 17 21:21:12 Actually, the best thing to do is to go to the Doctor ;) Jan 17 21:21:23 you have to spend time supporting to reach the conclusion of what they really did and why Jan 17 21:21:42 Plus the bottom line is that anything needed like this indicates that something else is not robust/right Jan 17 21:21:52 patches are NOT robust / right Jan 17 21:21:54 never have been Jan 17 21:22:03 in AUPT they will be robust Jan 17 21:22:22 the issue you want to solve is the case that ipkg data stays but patch effects are gone Jan 17 21:22:44 egaudet: but I also want it to be flexible enough to fix other things in the future Jan 17 21:22:49 without having to bring up terminal Jan 17 21:22:55 don't limit me Jan 17 21:22:56 the first issue for that is that current APT isn't good with that case and just errors on remove. The second issue is that Preware has no way to make multi-pacakge remove/installs easy Jan 17 21:23:05 WebOS Dr. does not recognize my phone. What is that key combo to put phone into "recovery mode"? Jan 17 21:23:21 power in a tool is not a bad thing Jan 17 21:23:35 destinal, we can add an undocumented "power-user-advanced" option to prefs, but documenting it just invites AM Jan 17 21:23:49 not documenting is keeping secrets and silly Jan 17 21:24:10 These "power" functionality is really a workaround to bugs/missing features Jan 17 21:24:10 just put warnings all over it Jan 17 21:24:13 so I disagree that it's silly Jan 17 21:24:42 egaudet: I want more capability in my tools, you want them to only handle the common case Jan 17 21:24:46 you don't bring up synaptic package manager and say "remove this package without runing prerm" or something Jan 17 21:24:48 that's our argument essentially Jan 17 21:24:58 destinal, no I don't want them to only handle the common case Jan 17 21:25:09 The capability you are asking for is due to bugs/missing features Jan 17 21:25:18 not "uncommon" case that I want to ignore Jan 17 21:25:32 egaudet: I'd like to be able to force a remove despite a dependency for instance Jan 17 21:25:38 doesn't synaptic support that? Jan 17 21:25:57 I don't know does it? Jan 17 21:26:11 I use command line on my ubuntu anyway :P Jan 17 21:26:25 what reason would you remove despite a dependency? Jan 17 21:26:27 same here, not very convenient on a phone on the road Jan 17 21:26:45 to reinstall services for instance Jan 17 21:26:56 without reinstalling all their apps Jan 17 21:27:23 why would you reinstall a service Jan 17 21:28:04 I doctored without full erase Jan 17 21:29:25 the point is, a feature is a feature, having to justify why I'd want it is silly Jan 17 21:29:53 I just want it, I'd find it useful :) Jan 17 21:30:25 destinal, just because you want it and find it useful doesn't mean it should go into an application that is used by the masses Jan 17 21:30:43 egaudet: there should be features that not everyone will use Jan 17 21:30:50 I don't force you to use it Jan 17 21:31:06 I mean I get what you are saying, there is definitely something to be said for having easy ability to do everything that ipkg offers from the GUI level. We can't predict future failures/issues Jan 17 21:31:22 But that could probably go into an "Ipkg app" Jan 17 21:31:33 we're about openness and capability, yet we want to rigidly define our gui to some tiny subset of capability, why? Jan 17 21:31:52 *grabs popcorn* Jan 17 21:32:03 if they're not good enough for command line or if they don't feel like typing in a terminal, forget them? Jan 17 21:32:11 destinal, Preware is not a mapping of ipkg to gui. Preware is a homebrew installer, and homebrew packages have certain rules for instance A depends on B means A cannot be installed without B Jan 17 21:32:12 they can use just these few things? Jan 17 21:32:28 a documented application that maps ipkg functionality directly to a gui I think is perfectly reasonable Jan 17 21:32:36 * gollyzila too intrigue to get up and get popcorn Jan 17 21:32:47 * AnOutsider|AFK had a bowl on hand Jan 17 21:32:48 ok, then we need that, but we should still add the functionality to ipkgmgr Jan 17 21:32:56 err ipkgservice Jan 17 21:32:59 you are talking about advanced usage of ipkg to workaround bugs, not really a "feature" Jan 17 21:33:00 like I said :) Jan 17 21:33:11 egaudet: I'm talking about giving me power to deal with the unforseen Jan 17 21:33:12 destinal, oh yea to the service Jan 17 21:33:26 I can't anticipate that everything will always be perfect Jan 17 21:33:49 right but you know how to fix things and get yourself out of a hole. AM only knows how to break things :P Jan 17 21:34:23 egaudet: well, I'll give myself make a separate app to do it, it still seems silly Jan 17 21:35:17 The first thing AM would have done if it was in preware would be to force remove when they get an error on some patch they think is gone, but it isn't because some other unsupported app they installed messed up some of the files, and then they get into some funky situation that we have almost no idea how to backtrack because AM will never tell us everything Jan 17 21:36:29 If we don't support that and help AM, they get furstrated and stop using preware. And then they recommend against using it for others, and then we eventually wind up in preware being an advanced-user only app Jan 17 21:36:39 The Garnet OS emulator starts to run on the Pre. It cannot display though cause SDL is not available in debian chroot (AFAIK). Jan 17 21:36:49 zonyl: why are you using chroot? Jan 17 21:37:05 destinal: It needs both X11 and chroot. X11 for the prefs and stuff. Jan 17 21:37:15 oh, then we need a port away from x11 Jan 17 21:37:16 er s/chroot/sdl/ Jan 17 21:37:34 destinal: the dont give out code :( Jan 17 21:37:44 oh Jan 17 21:37:56 destinal, I also think that ipkgservice should detect a doctor and reinstall advanced homebrew Jan 17 21:37:57 Is it possible to get SDL working from within chroot? Jan 17 21:38:01 My windows 7 comp doesn't recognize my Pre in recovery mode. How do I Doctor then? Jan 17 21:38:02 automatically Jan 17 21:38:02 zonyl: they give out an arm binary though? Jan 17 21:38:12 destinal: Yep. Took it from Mameo Jan 17 21:38:39 zonyl: I think making a chroot environment to provide binary compatibility with maemo apps would be a cool thing to have Jan 17 21:38:40 destinal: It wants to run and looks like it is working otherwise. Just no display Jan 17 21:38:47 zonyl: why you using a chroot Jan 17 21:38:56 PuffTheMagic: It needs both X11 and SDL Jan 17 21:39:08 but X11 means unless we have X it won't work Jan 17 21:39:09 zonyl: why do u need X11? Jan 17 21:39:14 anyone know what web language is being used for the 3D models on wowarmory Jan 17 21:39:15 PuffTheMagic: The xserver I am using doesnt support SDL Jan 17 21:39:24 why do u need an xserver? Jan 17 21:39:30 PuffTheMagic: binary only app built for maemo Jan 17 21:39:37 PuffTheMagic: I dont have the source code and that is the way they built the app Jan 17 21:39:45 what app? Jan 17 21:39:52 GarnetOS emulator Jan 17 21:40:04 yeah running X for that is a waste Jan 17 21:40:43 PuffTheMagic: It would appear it is mostly SDL from the strace I am running. Just wont show the splash and prefs at the beginning and sits (x11 part) Jan 17 21:41:15 PuffTheMagic: Agree. The X bit does seem lazy Jan 17 21:41:53 zonyl: if we can figure out what symbols it needs from libx11 we could make something to satisfy them Jan 17 21:42:08 LD_PRELOAD trick :D Jan 17 21:42:20 PuffTheMagic: exactly Jan 17 21:43:10 that should be easy Jan 17 21:43:10 any help please? Jan 17 21:43:34 gollyzila: missed your question Jan 17 21:43:37 zonyl: make a .so that implements the sdl X11 call to create the initial surface and have it actually call the fb init Jan 17 21:43:38 gollyzila: can you repeat? Jan 17 21:43:53 My windows 7 comp doesn't recognize my Pre in recovery mode. How do I Doctor then? Jan 17 21:44:26 gollyzila: try start, run, services.msc Jan 17 21:44:34 look for Palm Novacom service Jan 17 21:44:45 PuffTheMagic: Which way? Should I get it running in CHroot or in WebOS? Jan 17 21:44:47 stop and restart it Jan 17 21:44:58 gollyzila: then unplug pre and plug it back in Jan 17 21:46:08 PuffTheMagic: Its looking for libx11-gdk right off the get go. Jan 17 21:46:33 i stoped it. My comp then installed a driver which it's named contained "bootie". Then i restarted Palm Novacom and WebOS doctor now recognizes my Pre. Should i disconnect and reconnect phone? Jan 17 21:46:46 gollyzila: no that last step was optional Jan 17 21:46:54 if it sees it, continue with doctor Jan 17 21:47:03 Alright. Thank you very much! Jan 17 21:47:11 you're welcome Jan 17 21:47:26 gollyzila: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Novacom_with_Windows_7 Jan 17 21:47:38 Jolting: he doesn't need that Jan 17 21:48:10 usually with doctors not recognizing pre's you just have to restart novacom service. now, if he didn't have the service installed, he might need that. but obviously, he did have it Jan 17 21:48:41 Imagine if Palm's customer service was as good as Preware's "customer service"? Man, issues would be fixed in no time. Jan 17 21:48:51 Yes, I already had it installed...... Jan 17 21:49:18 BUT when i started WebOS doctor a window popped up stating that it was installing Novacom. Could it have replaced it? Jan 17 21:49:25 ldd shows 49 libs (eek) Jan 17 21:50:13 PuffTheMagic: achieving general binary compatibility with maemo would be cool, although only really needed for binary only software distribution like this one Jan 17 21:50:35 zonyl: ouch, that might be rather challenging Jan 17 21:50:58 zonyl: how many are missing? Jan 17 21:51:10 destinal: looks like debian satisfys most of it. Just dies on getting sdl initialized Jan 17 21:51:50 zonyl: did you use the debsmall on the wiki as a base? Jan 17 21:51:59 destinal: yep. Jan 17 21:52:23 whats the fastest/easiest way to get preware? WOSQI? Jan 17 21:52:47 sryan: easiest, yup Jan 17 21:53:08 sryan: only downside is the long doctor download depending on your broadband speed Jan 17 21:53:25 then again on 12megabit it's only 3-4 mins Jan 17 21:54:10 destinal: I get an empty window when running yielding the following stderr: Couldn't initialize SDL: Found no sufficiently capable X11 visuals Jan 17 21:54:30 zonyl: where did your libsdl come from? Jan 17 21:54:39 apt ;) Jan 17 21:54:43 oh, well yeah Jan 17 21:54:48 lol Jan 17 21:54:49 that will never work Jan 17 21:54:56 needs to be patched Jan 17 21:55:17 Should I take WebOS's and bring it into chroot? Jan 17 21:55:28 hi iam a writer some czech online magazine about smatphones. do you somebody info about new functions of palm pre plus? i see only + 8GB internal memory and next features are only software. My question is wil have new software features for palm pre plus old palm pre too? Jan 17 21:55:28 you can copy the deb libs out of the chroot or copy a bunch of palm libs in AND mount proc I think Jan 17 21:55:38 there's some IPC stuff to luna, not sure if it needs proc Jan 17 21:56:00 that is copy only the deb libs that are missing and put them in /usr/local/lib Jan 17 21:56:33 I would personally try escaping the chroot Jan 17 21:57:10 destinal: Thats what I am beginning to do. I want to get tightvncserver running without chroot as well. Two birds one stone thing now. Jan 17 21:57:46 zonyl: uh, doesn't tightvncserver need a functioning X server though> Jan 17 21:58:08 destinal: Im not an expert on X by any stretch, but doesnt the error I copied mean the x server is telling the app it doesnt have SDL? Jan 17 21:58:20 no, it's SDL saying it can't find X Jan 17 21:58:29 because it's not a palm pre aware SDL Jan 17 21:58:34 destinal: just curious, AUPT is for patches, is there a technology for homebrew apps? Jan 17 21:58:47 destinal: Ah. Good to know. Jan 17 21:58:53 destinal:with the same functionality as AUPT Jan 17 21:59:30 leoryk: it also has double the internal memory (RAM) +256MB, removed navigational button, improved keyboard slider mechanism, removed orange styling on keyboard Jan 17 21:59:51 sryan: what color is the orange button then? Jan 17 21:59:51 destinal: tightvncserver is a xserver on its own. Jan 17 22:00:01 zonyl: oh Jan 17 22:00:02 white Jan 17 22:00:16 Kyusaku: this is going to play havoc with writing instructions Jan 17 22:00:26 sryan: thanx, but every software thing wil be in old pre too? Jan 17 22:00:31 destinal: We used to use the same vnc trick to get X11 on the Zaurus back in the day. Jan 17 22:01:08 There is no driver for the Pre's OMAP3430 processor right? cause my computer just gave me an error that it couldn't install that driver Jan 17 22:01:10 Verizon will get mobile hotspot app officially from palm Jan 17 22:01:11 destinal: yeah I don't get why they got rid of the color, I rather liked it Jan 17 22:01:34 Kyusaku: they now need to give it a generic name like modifier key or meta key Jan 17 22:01:44 because you can't tell people to hit orange Jan 17 22:01:55 or Function key Jan 17 22:02:26 you think Verizon thought of the orange as too closely identified with Sprint even though all the other telcos have orange buttons too? Jan 17 22:02:31 Anyway. I started on this because I was browsing some N900 forums where folks were talking about trying to get it to run WebOS SDL games ;) Jan 17 22:02:48 zonyl: what? Jan 17 22:03:12 zonyl: but most of the stuff we're trying to get going is ported to maemo already Jan 17 22:03:21 oh you mean the commercial ones Jan 17 22:03:23 destinal: THe n900 folks are envious of commercial games on the Pre and want to run the bins on their phone. Jan 17 22:03:31 yeah, I see Jan 17 22:03:34 not a bad idea Jan 17 22:04:06 it really shouldn't be THAT hard Jan 17 22:04:13 I figured the same could be true for us to run mameo stuff on Pre. The one thing I wanted was a real PalmOS emulator (not classic limited version) Jan 17 22:04:31 zonyl: well it's easier for them Jan 17 22:04:43 they only need SDL. we need X / gdk Jan 17 22:04:56 destinal: As I am starting to see ;) Jan 17 22:06:23 destinal: From what I was reading they are all good to go except for the multi-touch (multiple SDL mouse events) Jan 17 22:06:29 zonyl: have a link to their thread? Jan 17 22:06:45 zonyl: yeah, none of the games we have so far need multiple mice Jan 17 22:06:52 unless I'm wrong Jan 17 22:07:11 destinal: NFSU uses two finger pause. ) Jan 17 22:07:21 destinal: Not earth shattering Jan 17 22:07:46 damn my phone is working hard Jan 17 22:08:01 playing pandora + providing wifi to my lappy and ps3 Jan 17 22:08:26 * zonyl trying to find that thread Jan 17 22:09:21 Has sprint ever done anything about wifi sharing? Jan 17 22:09:38 it didn't occur to me that the fact that those commercial games were based on an amazingly portable framework would work both ways. Jan 17 22:09:55 PuffTheMagic: Holy crap!! Hopefull your phone doesnt melt Jan 17 22:10:35 zonyl: now they just need a palm catalog emulator to buy type: game apps :) Jan 17 22:10:36 gollyzila: That would make a good youtube video. Jan 17 22:11:14 zonyl: wonder what they did about libpdl Jan 17 22:11:26 Jolting: Yeah. You playing MW2. You just get the nuke and your phone melts causing your PS3 to lose connection Jan 17 22:11:30 Here is one of them talking about games: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=460756 Jan 17 22:14:04 PuffTheMagic: How hot does your phone get? Jan 17 22:18:35 zonyl: the folks in #maemo at the moment hadn't heard of it Jan 17 22:18:44 zonyl: but a few found the idea intriguing Jan 17 22:19:16 (after one tried to explain to me that maemo and webos weren't the same like I was a noob) :P Jan 17 22:21:23 Jolting: its surprisingly cool right now.... Jan 17 22:22:26 PuffTheMagic: does the EVDO work well enough for your apartment at the moment? Jan 17 22:22:38 I imagine latency might make ps3 games a little frustrating Jan 17 22:22:52 destinal: im not using it for games Jan 17 22:23:11 i just did it for shits and giggles Jan 17 22:23:15 hehe Jan 17 22:23:15 and to download the update Jan 17 22:24:05 so when i connect to my quassel server (which is in germany) over cable my lag is about 60ms Jan 17 22:24:16 over my phone is about 100-300ms average Jan 17 22:24:43 not bad Jan 17 22:25:33 sryan: fastest/easiest way to get Preware correctly is via the preware-bootstrap script Jan 17 22:25:43 * destinal has an absurd desire to run out and buy an N900, and buy games from palm's app catalog to play on it :P Jan 17 22:26:21 rwhitby: but the preware-bootstrap script asks _questions_ :P Jan 17 22:26:22 is it possible to do the bootstrap script when I don't have the terminal on the phone Jan 17 22:26:23 * PuffTheMagic has an urge to banish destinal Jan 17 22:26:48 sryan: you need a command line to run the bootstrap script Jan 17 22:26:55 if you don't know how to get a command line, use WOSQI Jan 17 22:27:16 PuffTheMagic: you of the routing your network through a pre for giggles can scoff at running pre games on an n900 for the hell of it? :P Jan 17 22:27:49 you get the the command line from the terminal application right Jan 17 22:28:10 sryan: best thing is to grab the Palm SDK and run novaterm Jan 17 22:28:18 from your PC Jan 17 22:28:45 but with WOSQI you don't have to bother with that Jan 17 22:28:59 destinal: what you just suggested is traitorish Jan 17 22:29:04 So I think I found a fatal bug in Preware/ipkgservice last night. Jan 17 22:29:18 PuffTheMagic: haha Jan 17 22:29:46 installing apps via preware while the app catalog is installing stuff in the background seems like it can collide on the ipkg status file. Jan 17 22:30:04 rwhitby: race condition eh Jan 17 22:30:26 rwhitby: no locking built into ipkg? Jan 17 22:30:32 ipkg does locking Jan 17 22:30:37 but I expect Palm are not using the normal ipkg command, so no locking Jan 17 22:30:42 but they are Jan 17 22:30:52 I've traced it Jan 17 22:31:06 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install xplane blah blah Jan 17 22:31:06 for com.palm.appInstallService ? Jan 17 22:31:11 yup Jan 17 22:31:42 could it be that offline mode doesn't lock? Jan 17 22:32:28 dunno, I'll be checking into it today. Jan 17 22:33:56 PuffTheMagic: I won't be a traitor until maemo gets a multitouch device, how's that? :) Jan 17 22:34:48 which actually could be the pre, but who has that kind of spare time Jan 17 22:35:31 can anyone tell me why my optware feed keeps failing to update local optware package database? :( Jan 17 22:36:26 * freakout87 pokes his head in Jan 17 22:36:35 * freakout87 wonders why he can't change his nick! Jan 17 22:36:36 freakout87: you're a blast from the past Jan 17 22:36:50 lol Jan 17 22:37:17 no one know? Jan 17 22:37:19 freakout: ah, there you are Jan 17 22:37:22 ah, that's better Jan 17 22:37:34 So: my last day in town... Jan 17 22:37:54 for three months, at least. Jan 17 22:38:09 PdxJohn: only if you tell us what you did, what you expected to happen, and what did happen ... Jan 17 22:39:48 I ran sh optware-bootstrap-manual.sh, all goes well until it tries to update local optware package database, then it returns a 401 error in the log Jan 17 22:43:08 freakout: it won't be the same without you to antagonize dieter! :) Jan 17 22:43:29 and/or fight with for scoops Jan 17 22:44:10 professional football referees are so bad, I may stop watching the sport. Jan 17 22:44:21 s/football/american footbal Jan 17 22:45:12 zsoc, the Jets suck Jan 17 22:45:35 404 error my bad, "downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/pixi/cross/unstable/packages.gz Jan 17 22:45:37 egaudet: yes, but that was the worst reviewed call i've seen this seasons. they have _instant replay_, it clearly was a catch Jan 17 22:45:58 egaudet: and in all fairness, they _offense_ sucks. they have the best defense in the league Jan 17 22:46:03 this might as well be called #NFL Jan 17 22:46:18 haha Jan 17 22:46:29 chezbi: i apologize for interrupting your in depth webos discussion Jan 17 22:46:36 lol just joking Jan 17 22:47:45 zsoc, yeah Jan 17 22:47:52 well I won't admit to anything positive for the Jets Jan 17 22:47:58 I don't care how true it is :P Jan 17 22:48:33 egaudet: lol, you used to be my favorite non-biased webosinternals-head ;) Jan 17 22:49:03 :P not when it comes to the hated Jets, nope never! Jan 17 22:49:15 egaudet: I'm on 1.3.1. but there is no /media/cryptofs directory. I'm intending to alpha test AUPT. Jan 17 22:49:26 did somebody say jets Jan 17 22:49:28 boo jets Jan 17 22:50:03 gollyzila, /var/etc/ipkg/webos-patches.conf in 1.3.1 /media/cryptofs doesnt' exist until 1.3.5 Jan 17 22:51:09 does anyone know if robitaille will include /media/cryptofs into the next internalz update? Jan 17 22:51:25 egaudet: thanks that's all i needed to know Jan 17 22:51:27 for the destination for copying Jan 17 22:51:28 meh nvm, I can tell this is something I'm gonna have to crunch out myself I guess, thanks anyways Jan 17 22:53:13 egaudet: so once I edit that conf file, AUPT should be active? Jan 17 22:53:48 AUPT is simply the logic in the scripts. Once you edit that file, update feeds in preware, then preware will be seeing patches from the test feed which include AUPT logic scripts yes Jan 17 22:54:33 * rwhitby bbl Jan 17 22:54:40 anyone seen this loading Preware? "TypeError: Cannot call method 'split' of undefined" Jan 17 22:55:08 rwhitby: ping Jan 17 22:55:47 ron001-wIRC: I have Jan 17 22:55:49 egaudet: Sorting of patches in the admin panel = DONE! Jan 17 22:55:52 not sure what caused it Jan 17 22:56:08 dBsooner, nic Jan 17 22:56:09 nice* Jan 17 22:56:11 egaudet: Sweet. So the steps i should take from here are: install patches, OTA update to 1.3.5.1, edit conf for 1.3.5.1, Emergency Migration Helper, and my patches should have transitioned? Jan 17 22:56:25 ali1: hey, how's it going? Jan 17 22:56:40 gollyzila, you'll have to hit "update all" in preware to update all your patches as the last step Jan 17 22:57:06 gollyzila: make sure you edit the conf for the TESTING feed of 1.3.5.1 Jan 17 22:57:09 destinal, do I need to just reinstall it with QI? Jan 17 22:57:19 egaudet: That's going to be difficult :P Jan 17 22:57:33 ron001-wIRC: I'm not sure. you might try it but i think it was more a bad package in one of the feeds that caused it Jan 17 22:57:46 anyone have issues with mytether? Jan 17 22:58:26 Great, the first patch I install gives me an error. How can i copy the IPKG Log from my phone to my comp? Jan 17 22:58:43 is there a quick and handy link to the doctor URLs ? Jan 17 22:58:46 for 1.3.5.1? Jan 17 22:59:08 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Jan 17 22:59:33 figures :p Jan 17 22:59:43 thanks Jan 17 22:59:46 gollyzila, just read the ipkg log Jan 17 22:59:52 did you update feeds first Jan 17 23:00:12 egaudet, rwhitby: Do you want the WPWP to email you on new/update patch submissions and patch acceptance/denials? Jan 17 23:00:39 egaudet, rwhitby: It is at least going to email me. It's just a short, "New/Update Patch Submitted!".. Nothing fancy. Jan 17 23:01:07 dBsooner, no Jan 17 23:01:14 destinal, I can't get the feeds to list in preware at all, and updating gives the error Jan 17 23:01:18 egaudet, rwhitby: Basically it's the same email users will get when they submit a patch or when it changes status. Jan 17 23:01:27 dtzWill: hey, where we at? Jan 17 23:01:28 egaudet: you suck. Jan 17 23:01:30 lol Jan 17 23:01:37 egaudet: you sure? Jan 17 23:01:38 i don't need to know as submissions arrive Jan 17 23:01:50 Sure you do. Jan 17 23:01:57 It won't effect at which point I log in to look at them anyway Jan 17 23:02:06 yes I did. ipkg log states: ERROR: cannot satidfy the following dependencies for org.webosinternals.patch.app-catalog-show-download-count: org.webosinternals.lsdiff Jan 17 23:02:26 gollyzila, oh yes that is right forget I pushed that Jan 17 23:02:34 well no AUPT testing until we package lsdiff sorry Jan 17 23:02:37 well if rwhitby thinks the same as you, then I won't program that at all. Jan 17 23:02:39 ... install diff?:> Jan 17 23:02:49 oh, LSdiff Jan 17 23:02:55 egaudet: ^^ - as it wouldn't be of real necessity to me. Jan 17 23:03:01 dBsooner, I figure that I'll probably log in at set times each day, and getting emailed won't effect that in any way Jan 17 23:03:21 zsoc: hey Jan 17 23:03:30 Yeah, that's true.. but it might get to the point where patches are rarely submitted. Jan 17 23:03:31 zsoc: what do you mean? :) Jan 17 23:03:53 egaudet: when will you guys package lsdiff? Jan 17 23:05:16 I'll have to talk with rwhitby Jan 17 23:05:28 not sure what the process is of getting it into optware Jan 17 23:05:34 dtzWill: i mean what's the recent news :) i feel out of the loo Jan 17 23:05:39 p Jan 17 23:06:30 So I should just OTA update to 1.3.5 and wait until AUPT is ready for 1.4 February? Jan 17 23:06:32 zsoc: meh, newish release of vba, poking at some speed ideas, nothing compelling yet :) Jan 17 23:06:59 dtzWill: new release broke me btw :P Jan 17 23:07:42 dtzWill is on a mission... a mission of utmost importance Jan 17 23:08:23 second only to SNES emulation :D Jan 17 23:08:39 psx emulation video was pretty sexy too ;) Jan 17 23:08:53 psx would be too hard to play most games IMO :/ Jan 17 23:09:13 rpgs Jan 17 23:09:19 touchstone battery cover for the pixi weirds me out Jan 17 23:09:21 "most" Jan 17 23:09:35 PSX would be easy to play if we could use PS3 controller through Bluetooth Jan 17 23:09:39 sport Jan 17 23:09:55 bbl Jan 17 23:10:13 gollyzila: well there was talk of replacing the bluetooth stack on the phone to allow such things Jan 17 23:10:39 iphone is on it's way to get ps3 controller support. Jan 17 23:11:09 I feel silly owning a ps3 controller without owning a ps3 Jan 17 23:11:21 bbl Jan 17 23:12:50 where the hell is xcomp Jan 17 23:14:10 PuffTheMagic: making you wait Jan 17 23:14:20 zsoc: it broke what? Jan 17 23:15:09 zsoc: does it not run? someone reports it not saving which is weird. i'm a little glad that somone technically inclined had theirs break so i can work with them to fix it :P Jan 17 23:15:10 dtzWill: i had a random freeze during gameplay, an alsa erra Jan 17 23:15:20 nah my saving is fine Jan 17 23:15:40 and the alsa error i wasn't in a place to get the error msg, it seems to be something random tho (as it's working now) Jan 17 23:15:54 so not broken :) Jan 17 23:16:19 zsoc: okay. it actually should do much better regarding sound, in particular it shouldn't freeze anymore when you pause/minimize/etc Jan 17 23:16:21 * zsoc <3's his charmeleon Jan 17 23:17:01 zsoc: okay. well darn I don't know what's wrong; everyone who I've talked to seems to have everything working just fine haha Jan 17 23:18:15 emulation != exact science Jan 17 23:18:23 well i guess i am going to have to package my gentoo build efl libs untill xcomp pushes his work Jan 17 23:18:35 i want to get a version of Terminus in Preware :D Jan 17 23:18:47 :> Jan 17 23:20:10 zsoc: heh yeah. although mostly it just seems people with crazy setups that don't know what they're doing, or think mytether is a good idea :P Jan 17 23:20:33 dtzWill: i would ignore the majority of them :3, or suggest things like doctor :P Jan 17 23:21:51 zsoc: yeah. i just feel bad--if there's something legit wrong i want to fix it. things like it not saving for people seem.. odd. Jan 17 23:22:55 dtzWill, i noticed your code creates the directories if they happen to be missing somehow, do you know if they get set to the right permissions when that happens? Jan 17 23:23:06 protip: never doctor the pre over usb1 Jan 17 23:23:54 dtzWill: not saving is odd. Jan 17 23:25:11 destinal: : I reinstalled Preware from terminal. All fine now. tnx Jan 17 23:25:56 VBA is awesome :) Jan 17 23:26:02 i agree Jan 17 23:26:19 timepants: interesting question. should be made 777, but I didn't test it's doing what i thought :) Jan 17 23:26:23 tlp: glad you like it Jan 17 23:26:26 * zsoc wonders if we can get kirby's tilt and tumble to work with the accellerator Jan 17 23:26:40 haha i was wondering about that earlier hahaha. xD Jan 17 23:26:55 probably WAY more effort than it's worth Jan 17 23:26:59 dtzWill: I was hoping it'd happen since the day I bought my Pre, but figured it was out of reach until that directfb/luna wrapper thing was finished Jan 17 23:27:02 glad Palm surprised us Jan 17 23:30:22 hmm looks like preware doesn't handle the package manager service upgrade properly when using the update all button along with other apps Jan 17 23:30:31 oh god that scared the crap out of me. all of the sudden my PC made the "usb unplugged" sound while it was doctoring my phone. luckily it was because it had just finished, I thought it had a ways to go yet haha Jan 17 23:31:12 zsoc: and also vibration for pokemon pinball! Jan 17 23:31:54 Robi_: worked fine for me, in fact that was pretty intensely tested Jan 17 23:32:06 ugh not looking forward to remerging all these contacts. Jan 17 23:32:18 CoolMatty: yeah sometimes I unplug teh pre from charging and minutes later the PC realizes it's gone Jan 17 23:33:20 zsoc: usually does yeah not sure why it didn't this time Jan 17 23:33:42 CoolMatty: you backup your database file ? Jan 17 23:33:57 Robi_: egaudet might be interested in seeing your log Jan 17 23:34:21 it might be overwritten already Jan 17 23:35:12 * destinal-wirc keeps data in cloud Jan 17 23:35:12 restarted preware and pkg service seems to have upgraded and upgrade went ok this time Jan 17 23:35:32 Robi_: no, and even if I wanted to I couldn't anyway Jan 17 23:35:42 why? Jan 17 23:36:06 egaudet: do you want anything other than lsdiff from patchutils? Jan 17 23:36:10 now that the batt life is so much better i'm considering upping my idle screen timer to 2-3 min vs minimum Jan 17 23:37:10 I had no way of accessing the pre's system. usb mode wouldn't work, and couldn't novaterm/ssh in Jan 17 23:37:31 ok just doctored my old phone and it's ready to be sent back to palm Jan 17 23:37:39 CoolMatty: terminal? Jan 17 23:37:59 rwhitby, just lsdiff for now, haven't run accross a need for anything else (yet) Jan 17 23:38:46 Robi_: nope, and doesn't matter now I'm post-doctored :p Jan 17 23:38:50 VBA get updated? Jan 17 23:39:04 egaudet: which version of patchutils were you using? Jan 17 23:39:05 mtw: depends on what version you currently have :) Jan 17 23:39:08 why is it that the firstlaunch app doesn't let you turn on wifi >.> Jan 17 23:39:18 CoolMatty: if you doctored to 1.3.5 the usb partitino is no wiped Jan 17 23:39:23 CoolMatty: cause you didn't use meta-doctor Jan 17 23:39:26 dtz, do you play on porting gpsp? Jan 17 23:39:28 dtzwill: the appinfo.json with type game works fine for me Jan 17 23:39:36 rwhitby: of course I didn't ;) Jan 17 23:39:49 mtw: i think he plans on making vba run gba well :) Jan 17 23:39:54 but I don't think nowindow should be true Jan 17 23:39:55 egaudet: can't find lsdiff in patchtutils 0.3.1 Jan 17 23:40:02 zsoc: accellerator would be very cool :D you know boktai? that uses a light sensor ;) Jan 17 23:40:07 destinal-wirc: wonderful. some people reported havign to restart luna to get it to work; idk. but worked perfectly for me heh. always seems to be the case xD Jan 17 23:40:08 i doubt that'll ever happen, zsoc Jan 17 23:40:11 Sonic-NKT: yeah someone mentioned that to me, lol Jan 17 23:40:14 mtw: ... and why is that? Jan 17 23:40:25 and nodeprecatedstyles doesn't make sense I think Jan 17 23:40:32 egaudet: scratch taht Jan 17 23:40:42 is a mojo thing Jan 17 23:40:43 it never happened for any other platform, the insane amount of coding to make vba run well... Jan 17 23:40:51 zsoc: both should be possible :D wonder if someone ever will put that work into it ;) Jan 17 23:41:33 Sonic-NKT: it's a serious hack just to get _one_ rom to run Jan 17 23:42:07 egaudet: seems lsdiff is a symlink to filterdiff Jan 17 23:42:25 zsoc: i know and its pretty useless but it still would be awesome, about the accelerometer, there are several gba games for that Jan 17 23:42:42 there's a lot that use the rumble pack as well Jan 17 23:42:56 actually wait Jan 17 23:42:59 that might be for the ds lawl Jan 17 23:43:04 using gba port Jan 17 23:43:14 there are gba and gb games with rumble i think Jan 17 23:43:36 i can definatly remember pinball game Jan 17 23:44:53 so what are you working on now, dtzWill, just performance improvements? Jan 17 23:45:15 emulation is just a totally different game, we need some serious arm hackers Jan 17 23:45:45 CoolMatty: more or less; mostly watching tv Jan 17 23:45:50 zsoc: yeah.... yes we do. Jan 17 23:46:24 i wonder if the dsp core would also be helpful as a coprocessor for that Jan 17 23:46:34 also i think vba optimization might be viable simply b/c our processor is so much better than say, gp2x's Jan 17 23:46:49 very good point Jan 17 23:47:00 that's the idea anyway Jan 17 23:47:20 what we really need is a way to plug into the matrix to teach ourselves arm-fu Jan 17 23:47:22 >.> Jan 17 23:48:05 ahah arm-fu D: Jan 17 23:48:36 dtzWill: anyway, thanks for your work on this. Super awesome. :) Jan 17 23:48:59 dtzWill is pretty hardcore Jan 17 23:48:59 I'm loving this phone more every day. Jan 17 23:49:03 tlp: welcome. glad it's workig out. Jan 17 23:49:05 tlp: me too :D Jan 17 23:49:18 anyone else noticed phone calls making wirc die? Jan 17 23:49:30 the process, or the connection? Jan 17 23:49:33 it won't reconnect auto Jan 17 23:49:35 AFAIK, CDMA cannot do data + phone Jan 17 23:49:50 destinal-wirc1: people make phone calls on the pre? :p Jan 17 23:49:56 but no, I haven't noticed Jan 17 23:49:59 lol Jan 17 23:50:02 but I don't exactly get many calls to know :p Jan 17 23:50:11 haha. My calls on Sprint are really crisp. Jan 17 23:50:17 people say it almost sounds like a landline Jan 17 23:50:27 people hate it when I'm on speaker Jan 17 23:50:32 apparently their voices echo back Jan 17 23:50:43 echo cancellation might not be so great Jan 17 23:50:44 especially bad when I do headphone mode through my car Jan 17 23:51:36 destinal-wirc1: once my phone finishes restoring and I get preware up and going again, I'll test it for you Jan 17 23:52:08 also, there needs to be a "emergency service remover" like patch remover :/ Jan 17 23:52:34 yeah I did the redoctor, reinstall ipkgservice, run preware and reinstall a bunch of services thing Jan 17 23:52:53 and all the stupid upstart games postinsts Jan 17 23:53:37 * destinal-wirc1 loathes upstarting games Jan 17 23:53:48 whats the novacom syntax to put a file Jan 17 23:53:49 I should go fix the git repo for those Jan 17 23:53:51 i forgets Jan 17 23:54:15 PuffTheMagic: novacom put file:///location/on/pre/filenameyouwant < localfilename Jan 17 23:54:16 novacom put file:///media/internal/bees < /home/PuffTheMagic/bees Jan 17 23:54:22 thanks Jan 17 23:54:33 ohgod bees Jan 17 23:54:35 timepants: yep, your manual was definitely more readable lol Jan 17 23:54:35 >.> Jan 17 23:54:54 :o Jan 17 23:55:39 the pre plus needs dual core >.> Jan 17 23:55:58 tegra2 ftw? Jan 17 23:56:07 pinetrail lol Jan 17 23:56:09 of course, can't fix repo without fixing build and thus forcing everyone to get a new version for little cause Jan 17 23:56:11 sigh Jan 17 23:56:13 I'll tell you one thing, tegra on zunehd is omg sex Jan 17 23:56:23 fastest, smoothest UI I've seen on a portable ever. Jan 17 23:57:05 quake and doom are too big. maybe the others Jan 17 23:57:16 there's others? Jan 17 23:57:21 I mean, vba's no longer upstart... Jan 17 23:57:55 invaders and uh,supertux which is actually big, and that tetris one Jan 17 23:58:19 destinal-wirc1: too big? Jan 17 23:58:52 egaudet: lsdiff is in the feed Jan 17 23:59:04 dtzwill: too big for me to feel good about a preware update just to move from upstart to type game Jan 17 23:59:14 Where can I get the sourcce to invaders? Jan 17 23:59:24 git.webos-internals.org Jan 17 23:59:28 everyone would be downloading wads again for a tiny json thing Jan 17 23:59:45 git://git.webos-internals.org/games/Classic_Invaders.git Jan 17 23:59:49 destinal-wirc1: c'est la vie Jan 18 00:00:03 awesome thanks rwhitby Jan 18 00:00:23 destinal-wirc1: smart people will read the changelog and decide it's not worth it. sheep will download it. Jan 18 00:00:47 rwhitby: sheep will download it, and then say it's 13412 times faster Jan 18 00:00:47 no one needs that tetris app, we have vba for proper tetris action now :p Jan 18 00:00:48 yeah, good point,that Jan 18 00:01:00 why would a game update remove wads? Jan 18 00:01:00 zsoc: lol Jan 18 00:01:14 it just installs over doesn't it? Jan 18 00:01:22 egaudet: I think he meant 'wads==lots of bytes, not game wads' Jan 18 00:01:31 egaudet: it doesnt , but you have to redownload Jan 18 00:02:09 destinal-wirc1: you need to work out how we do binary ipkg deltas then ;-) Jan 18 00:02:10 it's not granular update, it's 20megs of pak or wad Jan 18 00:02:16 for tiny upstart Jan 18 00:02:24 rwhitby: touche Jan 18 00:02:51 CoolMatty: which? tetris 2, tetris blast, or tetrix dx? Jan 18 00:03:09 say what? I don't see "Tetris" on that list Jan 18 00:03:10 destinal-wirc1: shall we do a power user option in preware which lets them edit the tiny upstart file directly? Jan 18 00:03:14 can we talk about bspatch yet? :p Jan 18 00:03:25 rwhitby: lmao Jan 18 00:03:42 I mean the original, no fuss, plain old GB Tetris, zsoc :p Jan 18 00:03:49 bah Jan 18 00:04:08 zsoc: we always have been able to .... Jan 18 00:04:13 zsoc: mozilla version? Jan 18 00:04:22 coolmatty: wasn't that black and white? Jan 18 00:04:40 4 shades of grey actually destinal :p Jan 18 00:04:50 does palm do it with bspatch? Jan 18 00:04:52 or green if you had the old gameboy brick Jan 18 00:04:54 anyone have luck building a cross-compiling llvm? Jan 18 00:05:08 destinal-wirc1: I haven't looked into how palm does it yet. Jan 18 00:05:28 dtzWill: why? Jan 18 00:05:33 egaudet: let me know if it works, I didn't test it at all Jan 18 00:05:34 tried a few things; can't *quite* get it to build. would love me some llvm goodness, particularly LTO Jan 18 00:05:45 llvm? Jan 18 00:05:59 tmzt: just b/c i'm a compiler fan :P and want to give it a whirl Jan 18 00:06:09 destinal-wirc1: http://llvm.org Jan 18 00:06:26 dtzWill is pushing the envelope. Jan 18 00:06:32 interesting Jan 18 00:06:48 yeah, llvm is pretty cool. Jan 18 00:06:58 I hate this USB hub. I need a new one. get what I paid for I guess >.> Jan 18 00:07:45 So, is anyone alpha testing preware and ipkgservice which now gives individual feed status during the update phase? Jan 18 00:07:59 rwhitby: nah, just trying what things i can, doing the things i know how (compiler stuff). rewriting vba to use arm.... well sounds like fun but might not be the best path :) Jan 18 00:08:11 coolmatty: if you want something done right, do it yourself. then again building a hub you probably want to buy a chipset someone else made. I guess there are limits. Jan 18 00:09:02 oh no I have chip fab in my backyard, it's the mounting that's hard! Jan 18 00:09:02 wait Jan 18 00:09:04 >.> Jan 18 00:09:04 :p Jan 18 00:09:19 rwhitby: I am running it Jan 18 00:09:33 destinal-wirc1: status updates working? Jan 18 00:09:52 yes, and it's cool to see what's going on more Jan 18 00:10:01 hmm, since data kills EVDO... does it kill EVDO when the phone rings, or after you answer? Jan 18 00:10:10 destinal-wirc1: does it make you perceive it as slower or faster? Jan 18 00:10:16 err Jan 18 00:10:19 since *phone calls Jan 18 00:10:19 answer I think Jan 18 00:10:36 ah k Jan 18 00:10:55 rwhitby: seems the same but I get less frustrated at it :) Jan 18 00:11:20 rwhitby: yes, i like the update feed status Jan 18 00:11:30 it makes it feel like it's going somewhere rather than indeterminate Jan 18 00:11:31 rwhitby: i mean i like the _idea_, the _style_ could use some oil magic Jan 18 00:11:45 or magic oil Jan 18 00:11:54 rwhitby: I also agree with what they say. having it say /something/ about what it's doing is far preferable to nothing Jan 18 00:12:11 although it'd be best if it said something like downloading xKB / 512KB or whatever :p Jan 18 00:12:23 zsoc: yes, it could use some oil magic, indeed. Jan 18 00:12:36 yeah we need to downloadservice Jan 18 00:12:48 and get ipkg ourself Jan 18 00:12:58 rwhitby: we also need download subscription so we can have a progress bar for installs... Jan 18 00:13:37 i'd rather have amount downloaded / total download numbers than a bar Jan 18 00:13:41 "patches welcome" ;-) Jan 18 00:13:53 well which is better Jan 18 00:14:05 not sure if that is in the interest or not... Jan 18 00:14:15 rwhitby: are we ok with that? like total download/install numbers? Jan 18 00:14:19 downloadservice or integrate status into some libipkg c service? Jan 18 00:14:27 it just seems like we've been trying to avoid log numbers like that in the past for some reason Jan 18 00:14:49 destinal-wirc1: obviously a multi-threaded background download facility is best. but that's a complete rearchitecture. Jan 18 00:14:58 lol, patching preware seems sort of... a strage proposition Jan 18 00:15:16 rwhitby: why not do what palm does then? Jan 18 00:15:27 download ourselves, then install? Jan 18 00:15:47 rwhitby: that is easy with libcurl Jan 18 00:15:52 rwhitby, lsdiff works fine thanks Jan 18 00:16:02 i was thinking about out to improve on ipkgservice Jan 18 00:16:12 why not use palms service? Jan 18 00:16:13 wouldn't patching preware lead to upgrading issuess? Jan 18 00:16:18 and multithreaded downloads was an idea Jan 18 00:16:22 they provide download capabilities Jan 18 00:16:44 i bet a C service would make it easier... Jan 18 00:16:56 zsoc: it sure will Jan 18 00:17:17 the C ipkgservice wouldn't be hard to add multithreading Jan 18 00:17:23 puff: are you against calling the existing download service? Jan 18 00:17:30 webos gives us this Jan 18 00:17:44 am I the only one who wouldn't see much value in multithreaded downloading? Jan 18 00:17:56 The only time it'd get much use is when I first install preware Jan 18 00:18:11 CoolMatty, or want to install any large package Jan 18 00:18:13 almost everythin else requires luna restarts or java restarts, and I'd hate to see the performance from that Jan 18 00:18:21 CoolMatty: i dont see downloading more than one think, but a 'background' download. Like still be able to peruse preware while downloading/installing a package Jan 18 00:18:29 destinal-wirc1: ? Jan 18 00:18:40 meh Jan 18 00:18:41 destinal-wirc1: I'm onboard with using download service Jan 18 00:18:55 I guess I'd just go with the "it wouldn't be worth a complete recoding" IMO Jan 18 00:19:01 CoolMatty, it won't slow anything down for you currently, I don't see how it's "meh" Jan 18 00:19:19 rwhitby: why not packagkit then? Jan 18 00:19:27 coolmatty: if we farm it out to a service it's not a complete recode Jan 18 00:19:30 We already have the C service code mostly done, it's not a huge recoding to add this stuff Jan 18 00:19:30 oh yeah that new api Jan 18 00:19:33 it pretty much has that it's just not finished Jan 18 00:19:37 i guess i dont care Jan 18 00:19:48 as long as its robust enough Jan 18 00:19:57 egaudet: cause even now a luna/java restart brings the phone to its knees during that process, so you can't do much of anything else during that. but for a huge download I guess it's okay :p Jan 18 00:20:29 CoolMatty, luna/java restart is completely out of this scope Jan 18 00:20:32 CoolMatty: once everything is transitioned to C services, java restarts will no longer be required Jan 18 00:20:37 coolmatty: the restarts are optional in the ui Jan 18 00:20:49 rwhitby: now that's something I can get behind :p Jan 18 00:20:49 luna as well Jan 18 00:21:18 destinal: I was under the impression you could simply not do it immediately, but it still had to be done Jan 18 00:21:20 maybe luna will be able to reenumerate in future Jan 18 00:21:28 destinal-wirc1: still need luna for patches and browser plugin updates Jan 18 00:21:37 before using it yeah Jan 18 00:22:04 I still don't understand the correlation... downloading a big game int he background is not going to effect you restarting luna and using a patch... Jan 18 00:22:17 tmzt: I read that as luna would renumerate :) Jan 18 00:22:37 well I mean at least not once the dl is kicked off, it will obviously disconnect the preware->service Jan 18 00:23:23 egaudet: downloads should persist across restarts with this dl service palm has, I think Jan 18 00:23:49 destinal-wirc1: it should, somebody has to pay for the headache medication Jan 18 00:24:16 if the service is pushed to upstart it should servive luna I think Jan 18 00:24:39 tmzt: palm has this download service Jan 18 00:24:50 I've never played with it tho Jan 18 00:25:24 hopefully it's not private bus only Jan 18 00:26:26 what's the advantage of the dl service? vs. say libcurl that I think is in the C service right now Jan 18 00:26:41 it survives reboots Jan 18 00:26:42 egaudet: so, will the major_upgrade EPR work with APT patches? Jan 18 00:27:01 that's a pretty big advantage destinal-wirc1 :) Jan 18 00:27:26 rwhitby, EPR -should- work with them all yes Jan 18 00:27:28 yeah with patches and stuff Jan 18 00:27:40 AUPT patches will not install on a file that was touched by an APT patch though Jan 18 00:28:13 egaudet: shall we push major_upgrade EPR to master then? Jan 18 00:28:50 LunaDownloadMgr uses libcurl Jan 18 00:29:01 rwhitby, I'm not sure how many people have tested it Jan 18 00:29:11 I think I may be the only one who has run it, and that's only once Jan 18 00:29:59 but if we can get a couple people to verify it works, then i see no reason not to put it in master branch Jan 18 00:31:28 destinal-wirc1: looks like download service might even dynamically swap to wifi when available, looking at strings Jan 18 00:31:42 nice Jan 18 00:33:44 destinal-wirc1: but it also talks about tickets and auth tokens a lot Jan 18 00:34:33 hmm,I think because it can download updates and commercial apps from palm Jan 18 00:34:54 and would make preware brittle to changes in undocumented APIs Jan 18 00:35:37 I doubt they change that much. there are many advantages Jan 18 00:36:39 palm doesn't have an official api for it yet? Jan 18 00:36:47 lame if not Jan 18 00:49:56 Is "UTC" or "GMT" the proper annotation? Jan 18 00:50:03 I always thought GMT was proper. Jan 18 00:50:24 dBsooner: UTC is "proper" i believe, but GMT is more widely known Jan 18 00:50:26 afaik Jan 18 00:50:26 UTC is suppose to be used now Jan 18 00:50:41 Let me rephrase that Jan 18 00:50:46 Would AM know what UTC is? Jan 18 00:51:00 AM in america? less likely Jan 18 00:51:05 yes Jan 18 00:51:49 Hi I just noticed lsdiff in Preware. Unfortunately I'm on 1.3.5.1 so I can't use AUPT. Can I still use the testing patch feed for 1.3.5.1 to prepare for 1.4? Jan 18 00:51:54 Decisions decisions Jan 18 00:52:00 ok.. Jan 18 00:52:01 http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/?do=browse&webosver=all&category=all&order=lastupdated&desc=1 Jan 18 00:52:06 should I change that GMT to UTC? Jan 18 00:52:28 or should I make it localized time for my server (EST (-0500)) Jan 18 00:52:28 yes Jan 18 00:53:13 call it zulu...that way only aviators will know what you're talking about Jan 18 00:53:23 gollyzila: Umm.. the testing feed IS AUPT Jan 18 00:53:37 I know what zulu is. :) Jan 18 00:53:59 I'm probably going to beat senseless the next person to mention that Aunt Jan 18 00:54:05 Too bad borwsers don't tell the server their timezone in their header requests. Jan 18 00:54:11 :P Jan 18 00:54:36 destinal: UTC, GMT or localize it to server? Jan 18 00:54:47 server = Eastern US Jan 18 00:55:09 dBsooner: So I add to the conf file /testing/1.3.5.1. Then when 1.4 comes i'll be prepared since my patches will be signed with AUPT Jan 18 00:55:18 server = box in db's closet? ;) Jan 18 00:55:24 gollyzila: Presumably. Jan 18 00:55:31 server = db's pre Jan 18 00:55:37 GMT should only refer to timezone UTC refers to universal time. GMT is +0 UTC Jan 18 00:55:38 zsoc: box is my pre Jan 18 00:55:46 dBsooner: UTC Jan 18 00:55:49 dBsooner: lulz Jan 18 00:55:59 zsoc: LOL.. No.. the box is in a very large data center in Tampa Bay, FL Jan 18 00:55:59 called it :p Jan 18 00:56:18 it's a mega dedi box with 2 nics homed to two separate Tier 1 backbones. Jan 18 00:56:27 gigabit connections Jan 18 00:56:36 dBoosner: aright, thank you. Jan 18 00:56:37 nice Jan 18 00:56:38 dBsooner: you can localize it to client if you like if they provide it Jan 18 00:56:50 Also, Jet's win :3 Jan 18 00:56:51 destinal: Yeah.. I thought of that. Jan 18 00:56:52 but not to server Jan 18 00:57:03 dBsooner: just put in in CAST/CADT Jan 18 00:57:05 I'll just set it to UTC Jan 18 00:57:48 lol Jan 18 00:57:54 rwhitby: that would be TOO easy for you Jan 18 00:57:58 actually, list it in this timezone: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=63 (CHADT) Jan 18 00:58:11 Even easier. Jan 18 00:58:34 I figured if its in UTC/GMT it would be easier for people to just add/subtract their time diffs Jan 18 00:58:41 but putting it in a localization makes it harder Jan 18 00:59:09 especially for DST observing vs NON DST obvserving Jan 18 00:59:30 thats what I hate when I see a timestamp localized to the server Jan 18 01:00:23 rwhitby: What was up with the feeds last night? Jan 18 01:00:32 rwhitby: What do you think of the sorting functions on the admin and user side? Jan 18 01:03:07 rwhitby: ANd what about having the WPWP email you when a new/updated patch is submitted or status is changed (accepted/denied)? Jan 18 01:03:29 rwhitby: I will be sending the email to the "email" field of the patch.. i.e. the one would submits it. I just htought I might BCC the admins. Jan 18 01:04:16 dBsooner: no idea about feeds last night, I was sleeping. sorting functions are up to you. email is up to you, I will ignore them. Jan 18 01:04:39 rwhitby: I sent it while you awake.. 9pm my time Jan 18 01:04:44 which was like 1pm your time Jan 18 01:05:08 oh, you mean *your* last night ;-) Jan 18 01:05:13 lol.. yeah Jan 18 01:05:27 I dunno, what was up with the feeds? Jan 18 01:05:40 okay problem. I just doctored my phone, but preware thinks these patches are still installed Jan 18 01:05:57 how do I fix this? (I can't remove, errors out obviously. emergency patch remover fails saying there's no patches installed) Jan 18 01:05:59 it took like 4 build cycles to rsync the 1.3.5-12's and 1.3.1-29's to the ipkg system Jan 18 01:07:16 dBsooner: palm changed the XML format for their feeds, which broke the build. Jan 18 01:07:18 rwhitby: I could see them getting built in the build log.. but would go browse the feeds and they wouldn't be there. Jan 18 01:07:24 ohhh Jan 18 01:07:56 Looking for release candidate testers (testing feed) for ipkgservice 0.9.34 and preware 0.9.18 ... Jan 18 01:08:06 need three success reports before I release it to the public Jan 18 01:08:09 rwhitby: lsdiff in it? Jan 18 01:08:09 I'll test it if you can fix my patching issue, rwhitby :p Jan 18 01:08:33 CoolMatty: did you do a full erase before doctoring the phone? Jan 18 01:08:39 no, I couldn't Jan 18 01:08:45 partial erase Jan 18 01:08:52 or command line Jan 18 01:09:01 egaudet: does EPR work in that scenario? Jan 18 01:09:08 no Jan 18 01:09:09 is there a command line method? I'd prefer that over doing a full erase Jan 18 01:09:14 doctor removed the patch control directory Jan 18 01:09:19 (rightfully so IMO) Jan 18 01:09:43 yeah I don't blame the doctor for it. just really had no other option but doctoring Jan 18 01:09:49 egaudet: can EPR do a final ipkg list_installed | grep org.webosinternals.patches and ipkg remove them? Jan 18 01:10:17 rwhitby, no that's assuming too much IMO Jan 18 01:10:25 egaudet: ok Jan 18 01:10:27 although I could separate the patch control dir Jan 18 01:10:43 put packages list file in /media/internal land and backups file list stay in /var Jan 18 01:10:48 could you put the patch control dir in media/internal? :p Jan 18 01:10:49 yeah Jan 18 01:10:54 since then it will more accurately depict the status Jan 18 01:11:12 rwhitby: About sorting, I was more looking for you to say "good job".. :) Jan 18 01:11:27 putting patch control in /media/internal and then a bunch of curious people will be doctoring Jan 18 01:11:28 okay so do I have to do a full erase to fix this, or only a partial erase Jan 18 01:11:59 CoolMatty, partial erase or command line (ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove *patches*) Jan 18 01:12:25 that usually works for me Jan 18 01:12:35 when preware fails Jan 18 01:13:00 I'll take the command line option :p Jan 18 01:13:48 that universal command line patch I've had trouble with a couple of times and a theme Jan 18 01:15:55 rwhitby: I'm upgrading my preware/package service now for .18 and .34 respectively right now Jan 18 01:15:59 let you know how it goes :p Jan 18 01:16:04 Hmm - I really need to put ntpd in optware - all three of my Pre's are showing the wrong time. Jan 18 01:16:20 I wonder why people have so much trouble with that Jan 18 01:16:24 mine's never gone off Jan 18 01:19:49 CoolMatty: it depends on your carrier. Jan 18 01:21:31 yeah I have sprint naturally :p Jan 18 01:22:22 rwhitby: .18 and .34 here! Whats the changelog? Jan 18 01:23:15 sslow: update feeds and you'll see the difference Jan 18 01:23:34 its been working great for me thus far rwhitby Jan 18 01:23:45 removed like 10 applications and such, no problem. updating feeds display was nice. Jan 18 01:23:59 rwhitby, ooh I like the verbose feed detail Jan 18 01:24:01 my clock has been as far as 15 minutes off on sprint, it drives me bananas Jan 18 01:24:12 i never had that problem on verizon in the past Jan 18 01:24:17 I really need someone with a mixture of homebrew and app catalog updates to push the update all button Jan 18 01:24:36 rwhitby, pushed changes to major_upgrade branch, rebuild testing patches when you get a chance please Jan 18 01:24:38 hmm Jan 18 01:25:14 why does VBA still require the upstart service :/ Jan 18 01:25:24 CoolMatty: it doesnt... ? Jan 18 01:25:33 I mean it still requests it on preware Jan 18 01:25:36 OH Jan 18 01:25:39 the dependency Jan 18 01:25:42 aka, dependency Jan 18 01:25:44 yea Jan 18 01:25:45 * zsoc pokes dtzWill Jan 18 01:26:21 dtzWill: we need some screenshots for vba Jan 18 01:26:35 1.0.4 has no dependency Jan 18 01:26:48 well it does according to preware Jan 18 01:27:01 I know it doesn't use upstart but it made me install it Jan 18 01:27:01 :p Jan 18 01:27:07 do you have an earlier version installed? Jan 18 01:27:17 nope, I removed it and then installed it and it said that Jan 18 01:27:27 did you update feeds in between? Jan 18 01:27:30 yes Jan 18 01:27:39 rwhitby: what about dependency Jan 18 01:27:59 oh did i not remove that? i really thought i had Jan 18 01:28:05 it absolutely should not need upstart Jan 18 01:28:06 dtzWill: CoolMatty reckons it's still there, but I can't see it in the Makefile Jan 18 01:28:19 I can remove and reinstall it again if you like Jan 18 01:28:21 dtzWill: can't see any screenshots either ;-) Jan 18 01:28:24 rwhitby: yes we do need screenshots, i'm slightly at a loss as how to take them :( Jan 18 01:28:40 dtzWill: fbcat is in optware Jan 18 01:28:43 rwhitby: since fbcat doesn't work with opengl afaict. puff tried the other day too i think Jan 18 01:28:48 oh Jan 18 01:29:02 photoshop then ;-) Jan 18 01:29:04 haha Jan 18 01:29:08 yeah screenies would be nice Jan 18 01:29:19 * dtzWill gets a two mirrors and uses the palm's camera Jan 18 01:29:20 :P Jan 18 01:29:49 two? that's some impressive mirroring job if you do it with 2 :p Jan 18 01:30:31 CoolMatty: sshhhh. xD. they're.. curved >_> Jan 18 01:30:35 dtzWill: PuffTheMagic has a magical sdl screen shot taking device Jan 18 01:30:40 okay testing the preware install of vba. I just removed vba, and upstart manager Jan 18 01:30:41 but he wont shares it with us :( Jan 18 01:30:53 for non-opengl Jan 18 01:30:54 I now closed preware, and am restarting preware Jan 18 01:30:58 i have shared many times Jan 18 01:31:00 zsoc: it's fbcat, he put it on omploader, and it's in optware now as far as i know Jan 18 01:31:03 and poiinted to the src code Jan 18 01:31:11 google fbcat Jan 18 01:31:13 hi netsplit Jan 18 01:31:16 its the one that is hosted at google code Jan 18 01:31:19 dtzWill: oh. well :p Jan 18 01:31:21 build it for arm Jan 18 01:31:25 it's updating the feeds now on launch, and I will run update feed again once it's done Jan 18 01:31:47 gg Jan 18 01:32:55 rwhitby / dtzWill: confirmed, it is still requesting that I install upstart service Jan 18 01:32:58 PuffTheMagic: fbcat is now in optware, but dtzWill needs one for opengl Jan 18 01:33:10 I am installing VBA 1.0.4, so it's not the upstart requiring VBA Jan 18 01:33:19 yeah that dont exist that i know of Jan 18 01:33:20 I have updated feeds, even restarted preware before attempting to install Jan 18 01:33:29 CoolMatty: haha it'd be awesome if upstart req'd VBA :P Jan 18 01:33:36 CoolMatty: do you have any testing feeds enabled? Jan 18 01:33:47 yes, I'm running your latest preware version rwhitby Jan 18 01:34:00 CoolMatty: do you have any testing *feeds* enabled Jan 18 01:34:04 oh Jan 18 01:34:21 webos-internals-testing Jan 18 01:34:25 or something like that, it cuts off Jan 18 01:34:26 :p Jan 18 01:34:37 want me to disable that feed and try again? Jan 18 01:35:05 CoolMatty: yes, that will be the cause. it has an old version in the testing feed Jan 18 01:35:23 k, disabled and rerunning feed update Jan 18 01:35:27 (which I've now removed) Jan 18 01:36:01 yep that did it. sorry dtzWill :p Jan 18 01:37:10 CoolMatty: no worries, that would be an importat thing to fix if that was real Jan 18 01:37:17 it's actually a bug in Preware, but only occurs if you have an earlier version in the testing feed Jan 18 01:38:23 egaudet-wirc: patches testing feed updated Jan 18 01:39:38 destinal: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/7c63876fa70f228d Jan 18 01:43:04 Still looking for someone to help flesh out the regression test suite for Preware .... Jan 18 01:44:05 rwhitby: would you be opposed to me adding "Browse Preware Feeds" to the WPWP? Jan 18 01:44:24 It would parse the Packages files from ipkg.preware.org Jan 18 01:45:22 dBsooner: I'd prefer if you worked with Templarian to get the picture of Preware on www.preware.org to be a functional representation which can be used to browse the feeds in real time ... Jan 18 01:45:54 rwhitby: wouldn't parsing the Packages file be browsing the feeds in real time? Jan 18 01:46:06 yes it would. Jan 18 01:46:40 rwhitby: I can write the code necessary to parse the file and create output.. but I don't think i can make it as fancy schmancy as Templarian. Jan 18 01:46:51 * dBsooner doesn't know that much about new web code. Jan 18 01:46:58 dBsooner: the entire site runs off JS Jan 18 01:47:26 Templarian: but not IE compatible. Jan 18 01:47:26 the idea is that the current "screenshots" area on the right hand side of the web site becomes a functioning Preware Jan 18 01:47:29 It would be trivial since i already wrote it to work that way but never implemented it since I was hoping rwhitby would write the feed into a db. Jan 18 01:47:46 dBsooner: it works in IE8. Jan 18 01:47:58 I didn't test legacy versions. Jan 18 01:48:03 * rwhitby palms the problem off to dBsooner and Templarian ... ;-) Jan 18 01:48:14 rwhitby: The only downside I feel to that is what users are asking for is a "desktop environment". If they wanted to browse it like a device, why wouldn't they just use their device? Jan 18 01:48:35 rwhitby: that is the #1 thing I have gotten feedback about.. They want a way to have a 'bigger screen' browser for the feeds. Jan 18 01:48:57 Yea, that's what preware.org was suppose to do. Jan 18 01:49:13 But we don't have the feeds in a database so it can't be done yet. Jan 18 01:49:21 Huh? Jan 18 01:49:26 * dBsooner points to my wpwp Jan 18 01:49:28 it can to be done. Jan 18 01:49:29 Templarian: that's the bit that dBsooner can do Jan 18 01:49:48 Oh, good. (what is a wpwp?) Jan 18 01:49:51 rwhitby: I just feel it should be more of a fullscreen browser.. not just the size of the pre. Jan 18 01:49:58 Templarian: http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/ Jan 18 01:50:25 dBsooner: how is the preware.org site the size of a pre? Jan 18 01:50:46 best thing to do would be to have a cron job that goes out and grabs the Packages every 15 minutes (5 minutes after the build script) and parses it into a database. Jan 18 01:51:16 dBsooner: I'm happy for there to be multiple feed browsing interfaces on preware.org Jan 18 01:51:21 dBsooner: if you know python i can be written write into the process that actually makes the feeds. Jan 18 01:51:42 dBsooner: but one of them should be the Preware image, so that people who do not have Preware yet can try it out on the website first. Jan 18 01:52:16 rwhitby: Understood. I was just looking at the "i have preware and want to be able to browse this stuff from my desktop to get more info per click/screen shot" Jan 18 01:52:19 preware 0.9.18, ipkgservice 0.9.34 are released. Jan 18 01:52:33 dBsooner: cool, so two interfaces to the same data. Jan 18 01:52:43 rwhitby: yeah. Jan 18 01:52:55 rwhitby: are the feeds inpalce going to be converted to xml also? Jan 18 01:52:56 Templarian: i don't know python. But I can easily make a cron task Jan 18 01:53:33 Templarian: as either shell script that makes mysql insertions and then inserts them via command line.. OR as a php script that creates the mysql insertions. Jan 18 01:53:53 Templarian: sometime in the future, when we have an app that reads XML Jan 18 01:53:53 I wish there was a way to "backup" patches, so that after a wipe, one can easily install all patches at once. Jan 18 01:53:55 what XML are you trying to read? Jan 18 01:53:55 CoolMatty: search AUPT in precentral. Jan 18 01:54:12 cause I've almost done that already for PHP -> MySQL on the official app catalog feed Jan 18 01:54:13 Auto-Update Patch Technology Jan 18 01:54:14 rwhitby: FYI the new release was not showing up on my 0.9.16 and 0.9.33 version. Had to update with the bootstrap Jan 18 01:54:19 Templarian: but you are right.. for SPEED and flexibility among two interfaces (screenshot browse AND full screen), the info needs to be in a database, NOT rendered real time (on page request). Jan 18 01:54:48 cashen: did you update feeds after I announced it here 2 minutes ago? Jan 18 01:55:24 is preware.org @ OSUOSL? Jan 18 01:55:52 will AUPT work for after you Dr.? or is it for OTA? Jan 18 01:55:57 dBsooner: yes Jan 18 01:56:10 sslow: OTA Jan 18 01:56:12 rwhitby: what version of PHP and MySQL? Jan 18 01:56:20 rwhitby: flavor of *nix? Jan 18 01:56:31 Thats what I was thinking Jan 18 01:56:40 rwhitby: no, it was about 5 minutes ago, saw the git was updated and thought it should have been showing up. my mistake Jan 18 01:56:53 gollyzilla: AUPT is for OTA Jan 18 01:57:12 gollyzila: AUPT is for OTA Jan 18 01:57:13 rwhitby: it was before you posted that it was up in here. Jan 18 01:57:17 cashen: the autobuilder takes some time to get to the upload stage Jan 18 01:58:44 I get an error when I updated Preware's feeds. it saws that http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-patches/testing/1.3.5.1/Packages.gz is not found Jan 18 01:58:56 it says* Jan 18 01:59:43 gollyzila: that is correct Jan 18 02:00:17 I'm checking the feeds myself on my computer and i see no 1.3.5.1 Jan 18 02:00:19 Templarian: Jan 18 02:00:30 well not in /testing Jan 18 02:00:35 Templarian: if i get the data into a MySQL database, can you do the rest? Jan 18 02:00:55 gollyzila: we don't keep the testing feeds up to date with minor webos versions, since we expect alpha testers can just edit the .conf file to match Jan 18 02:01:20 dBsooner: should be able to. Jan 18 02:01:29 Templarian: I'll have it done tomorrow. Jan 18 02:01:54 dBsooner, Templarian: please use a schema which matches the Palm XML feeds as much as possible, with homebrew additions where necessary. Jan 18 02:02:12 rwhitby: so I should edit my .conf file to look at the /testing/1.3.5 feeds? Jan 18 02:02:21 dBsooner: let me write up the db scheme. Jan 18 02:02:28 Templarian: sure please do. Jan 18 02:02:29 gollyzila: yes Jan 18 02:02:47 would it matter if I told you I am almost done importing the palm catalog feed to MySQL already? :p Jan 18 02:02:51 Templarian: index (key) off packageid Jan 18 02:03:07 CoolMatty: no it wouldn't. Jan 18 02:03:11 CoolMatty: only if your code is in a public open source repository ;-) Jan 18 02:03:19 it could be :p Jan 18 02:03:22 dBsooner: I was going to. Jan 18 02:03:30 CoolMatty: That just renders the Palm XML right? Jan 18 02:03:38 CoolMatty: We aren't rendering an XML. Jan 18 02:03:47 CoolMatty: We are rendering a Packages file. Jan 18 02:03:48 takes it right out of the xml and puts it into a mysql db. doesn't play with the data at all Jan 18 02:04:06 CoolMatty: that will be useful for the future Jan 18 02:04:06 CoolMatty: It would only help if the Preware feeds were already in XML. Jan 18 02:04:10 * dallashigh pokes his head in Jan 18 02:04:17 okay no problem Jan 18 02:04:30 I was doing it for another project I'm working on, with trends on the app catalog Jan 18 02:04:45 but if you need the code in the future I'd be more than happy. Jan 18 02:05:09 if you want to save yourself the effort of reading the XML btw, I found a library on PHP called magpie that is useful Jan 18 02:05:33 like beatifulsoup or soap? Jan 18 02:05:44 (PHP's XML support is a mess, especially with namespaces which the palm feeds use) Jan 18 02:06:06 After updating Preware and ipkg service through bootstrap, Preware is now showing that I have nothing installed Jan 18 02:06:23 soap I mean sax Jan 18 02:06:42 CoolMatty: Isn't that what WebOS-School is doing? Jan 18 02:06:48 trending the app cat? Jan 18 02:06:49 dBsooner: I wouldn't know Jan 18 02:07:06 I didn't see any trends from googling before Jan 18 02:07:35 if they're doing it, they better do it better than I will I guess ;) Jan 18 02:07:53 does the app catalog load the same information as preware on palm's feeds? Jan 18 02:08:33 sryan: it all comes from the same source, yes. Jan 18 02:08:41 sryan: I don't think it gets ALL the information.. Jan 18 02:08:49 sryan: Like download counts, ratings, etc. Jan 18 02:08:54 Should I reinstall Preware and ipkg service through Preware? Will that make Preware show all my installed packages? Jan 18 02:09:13 sryan: But don't hold me to that quote. Jan 18 02:09:41 there's a lot of info in the XML feed that I don't think the app catalog uses Jan 18 02:09:49 when it says loading package information "palm-catalog" takes a long time in preware, but when going to the app catalog its always instant Jan 18 02:09:59 but most of it is actually internationalization stuff. Jan 18 02:10:07 sryan: Because there are over 1000 packages in that feed. Jan 18 02:10:17 It's a 2MB Packages file. Jan 18 02:10:56 Nevermind what I was saying. Restart Preware and all is well. Jan 18 02:11:12 is there anyway to cache that information on the phone :P Jan 18 02:11:13 sryan: yep, but disconnect your device from the network, and try browsing the app catalog ... Jan 18 02:12:11 sryan: Preware does cache it on the phone. Jan 18 02:12:54 Is there a way to package scripts without having to manually add them to control.tar.gz? Jan 18 02:13:03 Anyone know why I cant log into irc with wIRC? I reinstall the service and GUI and it still refuses to connect. says "Preferred interface is not avaliable and use fall backs is false... not connecting Jan 18 02:13:21 check your preferences Jan 18 02:13:31 Will Preware get the funtionality to "checkmark" more than one package and then download all the "checkmarked" packages in one fell swoop? Jan 18 02:13:39 does the app catalog only load the package information when you click on an application? Jan 18 02:13:50 tap* Jan 18 02:14:05 I know it does with the screenshots at least Jan 18 02:14:07 dallashigh: ipkg-build in preware/build.git/toolchain/ipkg-utils/ Jan 18 02:14:10 dunno about the actual text Jan 18 02:14:17 Thanks, Rod! Jan 18 02:14:17 sryan: that's correct Jan 18 02:15:36 gollyzila: Persistant Package Configurations is a long-term roadmap item Jan 18 02:16:10 Okay Jan 18 02:16:34 So, anyone able to test both app catalog and homebrew updates together with the Update All button in the new Preware? Jan 18 02:18:37 I don't have anything to update :/ Jan 18 02:18:48 rwhitby: didn't you say that that caused problems? Jan 18 02:19:23 Is it possible to have preware download the headers (name of application, version, author) when launching, and all the other information (price, download size, description, etc) after you tap an application in the list of everything Jan 18 02:19:28 gollyzila: a potential fix is in 0.9.18 Jan 18 02:19:47 sryan: not with the current architecture, no. Jan 18 02:20:13 sryan: and you want a subset of that information for the second line in the listing screen Jan 18 02:20:25 a highly configurable subset at that. Jan 18 02:21:01 heh, Classic just launched itself to display a calendar appointment reminder. how cool is that. Jan 18 02:21:19 rwhitby: Cool. I would re-enable palm-catalog feed, but it just takes too long and I don't want spam apps to clutter the List of Everything (I tap that everytime I use Preware) Jan 18 02:21:59 gollyzila: yep, each person should configure preware feeds to their own desires. Jan 18 02:22:12 that's why it retains your feed configuration across updates. Jan 18 02:24:16 Is there a way to put palm-catalog feed into it's own category, but not let it show in List of Everything?? (Ex. Available Applications, App Catalog, Available Other,etc.). So technically it would be called "List of Everything Except App Catalog" Jan 18 02:37:26 rwhitby: ipkgfind is brokey.... is there a better way to poke through optware besides an aptitude search on a chroot? Jan 18 02:38:19 zsoc: just look in http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/ Jan 18 02:38:32 or grep the Packages file there Jan 18 02:38:41 rwhitby: oh... i was _almost_ there, got lost in your ipkg tree :D ty Jan 18 02:39:09 is downloading patches from http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-patches/testing/1.3.5/ on my comp and then installing WOSQI an approved and faster method? Jan 18 02:39:14 zsoc: yeah, optware supports a couple of different devices ;-) (http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/) Jan 18 02:39:29 rwhitby: it was seem, just a few :> Jan 18 02:39:33 s/was/would/ Jan 18 02:39:34 zsoc meant: rwhitby: it would seem, just a few :> Jan 18 02:40:12 gollyzila: no. fix the preware feed conf file and use preware Jan 18 02:41:16 gollyzila: I've added symlinks in the feed for you Jan 18 02:42:03 * rwhitby bbl Jan 18 02:43:08 rwhitby: I already did what I had asked. It looks like the patches installed fine except for two. Symlinks from the /testing/1.3.5.1 to 1.3.5? Jan 18 02:46:41 I wish there was an app like OSX activity monitor or Windows resource monitor for pre Jan 18 02:47:21 How could libsdl-ttf2.0-dev possibly rely on 43.8MB worth of garbage? I need 1 include :p Jan 18 02:52:36 zsoc: I noticed RenderText_Blended doesnt work on the Pre's sdllib. Had to change everything to Solid Jan 18 02:53:29 zsoc: Just an FYI that set me back an hour or so. Jan 18 02:53:49 zonyl: good find, and logged.. will help others i'm sure :) Jan 18 02:53:56 zonyl: worked great for me? Jan 18 02:54:14 zonyl: it's used in the rom selector Jan 18 02:54:41 dtzWill: Really? The code I tried was very simple and it worked fine on my desktop. When I compiled for Arm it showed with no text. Jan 18 02:55:28 dtzWill: Well that would be very odd, but I guess I can try it again to be sure. Jan 18 02:55:42 zonyl: yeah. not saying it's not broken but it does work under some conditions is all i can say Jan 18 02:56:02 zonyl: since it definitely works for me (feel free to look at the code if you'd like, maybe i did something different idk) Jan 18 02:56:25 hehe. good to know. Just when I think I have a handle on something ... ;) Jan 18 02:59:01 dtzWill stupid question: Why aren't you including at least one freeware game in the vba dist??? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 18 02:59:56 2010