**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 18 02:59:56 2010 Jan 18 03:00:16 Rick_work: that isn't a stupid question, and I suppose there isn't a good reason. mostly just didn't think that was necc something everyone would want. Jan 18 03:00:24 uh Jan 18 03:00:41 hey dtzwill are you using the pdk for VBA? opengl es and native ARM code Jan 18 03:00:44 ONE (something very simple as a demo) would be good. Two would be better as it would demo the app Jan 18 03:01:01 but making people go download a rom just to demo the app is not good. Jan 18 03:01:07 Rick_work: sure. i mean there are some decent homebrew ones. Jan 18 03:01:12 exactly Jan 18 03:01:33 Rick_work: frankly, and I'm sure this is apparent, I hadn't given any thought to how it demos Jan 18 03:01:42 Rick_work: but you make a good point, that's easy, and it's useful Jan 18 03:02:54 sryan: no i'm not using the pdk. it's not out yet and i'm not on the list :) Jan 18 03:03:11 sryan: oh do you mean the webos-internals pdk? build.git stuff? absolutely Jan 18 03:04:22 dtzWill I would strongly suggest a DEMO file (with color, possibly some 3d imagery) and a simple game -- is there a pd tetris clone? Jan 18 03:06:55 Rick-home: there is an entire website dedicated to homebrew roms Jan 18 03:07:10 but you probably knew that Jan 18 03:07:35 There are at least two. Jan 18 03:07:53 but the point is, if I am casually interested in VBA why make me go download a rom? Jan 18 03:08:03 its a good point Jan 18 03:08:31 rwhitby: ping Jan 18 03:09:12 Some people will see the VBA icon and say "OH cool, gameboy advance game!!" They'll download it and find out they need roms. They google GBA roms and are led into the world of pirates Jan 18 03:09:37 thats good for them Jan 18 03:09:37 adjustris? :) Jan 18 03:09:57 PuffTheMagic: haha Jan 18 03:10:12 hey do all downloads from the browser go to /media/internal/downloads? Jan 18 03:10:19 oh, the splash screen still needs to say "visit the wiki site for info on roms" Jan 18 03:11:00 friggen preware wont work for me Jan 18 03:12:12 PuffTheMagic: Did you offer the right incentive plan / benefits? Jan 18 03:13:02 Rick_work: ALSO a good point. Jan 18 03:13:16 * dtzWill makes sure to run future releases past Rick for usability fixes ;) Jan 18 03:13:43 Just noticed that /testing/1.3.5.1 patch feed is not up to date with the regular 1.3.5 patch feed Jan 18 03:14:06 There are a bunch of patches in the "unavailable" category in Preware Jan 18 03:15:30 Rick_work: although the 'splash' screen only shows up when there are no roms so the two ideas conflict in current model :P (/me pretends theres no possible way to resolve them) Jan 18 03:15:47 Ha -- ha ha .... Jan 18 03:15:59 I have the new preware Jan 18 03:16:07 and I only have 8 patches listed Jan 18 03:16:09 :S Jan 18 03:16:33 er nvm it was my fault Jan 18 03:17:26 is the testing patch feed supposed to be not up-to-date with current patches on the regular feed? Jan 18 03:20:34 hmm these demos shipped with it might have to be gbc haha :) Jan 18 03:21:41 doit Jan 18 03:22:02 Hey dtzWill, do you know why exactly there is performance issues with some GBA roms? Jan 18 03:22:41 So did anyone notice the feed discrepancies? Jan 18 03:23:06 everytime i start WOQI it tells me to restart it Jan 18 03:23:09 wtf Jan 18 03:23:34 why you starting WOQI Jan 18 03:23:53 sryan: all kinds of reasons. mostly that we're *emulating* arm _on_ arm --is probably the biggest inefficiency Jan 18 03:24:03 PuffTheMagic: ssh/novacom + preware-bootstrap? Jan 18 03:24:44 rwhitby: cool re c.o.l.a. Jan 18 03:25:26 is the emulator tapping into the sgx 530 at all? Jan 18 03:25:43 sryan: yes, and at the same time, a resounding no Jan 18 03:26:54 dtzWill: did we decide why the emu doesn't load zipped roms? Jan 18 03:27:04 dtzWill: er, i mean it does, did we decide why your filepicker doesn't? Jan 18 03:27:25 e6HQtmVwr: now /there's/ a completely legitimate nickname Jan 18 03:27:41 ? Jan 18 03:27:56 Rick_work: dtzWill: pdroms.de ? Jan 18 03:28:04 e6HQtmVwr: the upper and lowercase + number.. i like it. it's fancy. Jan 18 03:28:10 zsoc: i didnt know there was a preware bootstarap Jan 18 03:28:13 :) Jan 18 03:28:14 ?DCC SEND "iÇi??????????????????Ú.?u~*r?}???­0??3?????°E??6?DGŠ????=?EŒ??OMù???t???" 0 0 0 Jan 18 03:28:32 PuffTheMagic: http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap <-- prefered way to install. doesn't break things Jan 18 03:28:37 What the crap? Jan 18 03:28:51 zsoc: i got it working with out that a few min ago Jan 18 03:29:00 java-serviceboot i was forgetting Jan 18 03:29:10 zsoc: i don't even try--i filter gb/gbc/gba Jan 18 03:29:16 PuffTheMagic: but trust me, it's better :) look at the script yourself. anything to avoid wosqi imo Jan 18 03:29:26 i didnt use wosqi eiterh Jan 18 03:29:28 dtzWill: cool, lets filter gb/gbc/gba/zip ;) Jan 18 03:29:40 PuffTheMagic: oh ok then :p Jan 18 03:29:46 zsoc: there are lots small things that need to happen that i haven't done yet Jan 18 03:30:06 the emulator doesnt use the gpu? Jan 18 03:30:13 big things, then small things Jan 18 03:30:20 :) Jan 18 03:30:24 other then integrity what is stopping people from pirating paid apps? Jan 18 03:30:27 sryan: that's a very complicated question, the answer is it _does_ use the gpu, but for very minor things, sort of. Jan 18 03:30:36 OldCrowEW: people are, i'm sure, just not in here Jan 18 03:30:37 Has anyone on vba gotten "game pak error" when trying to load the NES -> GBA compatible games Jan 18 03:30:47 So yeah......patch feed discrepancies Jan 18 03:31:05 understood, not looking for helping doing it Jan 18 03:32:15 zsoc: aw, ok. Well it still has great performance and slow battery drain :) Jan 18 03:32:16 I was curious so I tailed the logs... fsaw where app store d/l the file to & was able to copy before deletion.. haven't tried to install yet but... Jan 18 03:32:35 OldCrowEW: Apps that use backends with logins are stopping them. Jan 18 03:32:46 OldCrowEW: 'WheresMyPre', etc. Jan 18 03:33:29 Hey guys in the app xml feed http://pastie.org/782631 the "Games::Classics" part, what is "Classics" a sub category? Jan 18 03:33:52 so if the app requires the service the app just doesn't work? Jan 18 03:33:57 well good. Jan 18 03:34:34 oi, zsoc! Jan 18 03:34:35 OldCrowEW: Yea. Forces someone to have an net connection all the time. Was considering that for an app I was writing. Plus I didnt want all of the biz logic out in the open. Jan 18 03:34:39 freakout: yes? Jan 18 03:34:51 OldCrowEW: the paid games though, that kind of thing? there's nothing preventing copying, but then again if you think something is going to effectively stop people from copying you live on a different planet than I do Jan 18 03:34:59 Bye. I'm signing off IRC (and the Internet in general) for a few months Jan 18 03:35:31 freakout: oh :/ gl on your endeavors... hope to see you on the other side Jan 18 03:35:35 OldCrowEW: if it can be run, it can be copied Jan 18 03:35:54 Hey guys, i got a quick question to anyone who wouldnt mind helping shed some light for me Jan 18 03:36:09 Humans can run.......Humans can be copied Jan 18 03:36:20 gollyzila: why, yes, we can Jan 18 03:36:22 :P Jan 18 03:36:27 destinal: Unless it doesnt completely run on their machine. Google Apps for example would be hard to copy. Jan 18 03:36:36 Indecom: Just ask, don't ask to ask :) Jan 18 03:36:40 zonyl: right, it can still be copied but only where it's run Jan 18 03:36:42 @daaknas & I were talking about it earlier Jan 18 03:37:06 with the pdk can "services" be integrated into the applications themselves? Jan 18 03:37:08 zsoc: me too! Jan 18 03:37:16 I only ask questions here :) Jan 18 03:37:16 well i've set up ubuntu under virtualbox on windows vista, and i've got the internals pdk set up and i compiled doom and it all worked fine Jan 18 03:37:21 it lives on an encrypted drive which we can access via ssh.. Jan 18 03:37:21 sryan: sure they could Jan 18 03:37:31 but i cant ssh the binaries on to root@pre Jan 18 03:38:02 Indecom: I suggest skipping that and going down to packaging Jan 18 03:38:06 sftp ? Jan 18 03:38:10 Indecom: if you're using the DOOM walkthrough Jan 18 03:38:29 would it be a good idea to do that, or is it better to compartmentalize Jan 18 03:38:38 okay, so i can just package it up like any old webos app, and then it should run? Jan 18 03:39:04 sryan: not sure if the official PDK will include support for native C services but we can do it with our WIDK Jan 18 03:39:07 also i tried installing the mojosdk under ubuntu as well but many of the steps didnt work, Jan 18 03:39:46 Indecom: what problems did you have installing the SDK? Jan 18 03:40:01 deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian hardy non-free <--- This returns an error, deb is an invalid function Jan 18 03:40:25 Indecom: you didn't read the context. That's telling you to add that line to your apt sources Jan 18 03:40:31 http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00817/SNN0414VC-682_817956a.jpg off topic but neat/cool/something ;) Jan 18 03:40:47 Indecom: go back and read it carefully Jan 18 03:41:05 okay, i'm still new to linux programming and proper terminal usage Jan 18 03:41:14 i've been a windows guy for the past 10+ years Jan 18 03:41:33 Can someone answer my question regarding discrepancies between the testing and regular patch feeds? Jan 18 03:41:41 Indecom: it's cool, a lot of people are getting into linux by trying to develop for the palm pre Jan 18 03:41:58 it's a good start Jan 18 03:42:07 Yea, i've got a lot of cool ideas, lots of inspiration, just need to get the linux programming flow moving Jan 18 03:42:45 Indecom: the problem with trying to install the SDK in your virtualbox is then you have to connect the virtualbox to the palm pre, which is possible but not explained in the wiki article Jan 18 03:43:35 Yea, thats one thing i want to know, is there any place that will help me get that working, or would it just be better to do my compiling under ubuntu, then with a shared folder package it under windows? Jan 18 03:43:48 I would do the shared folder Jan 18 03:44:18 unfortunately you would have to package on windows in the shared folder, run the game fix in the virtualbox, than install and launch in window Jan 18 03:44:19 s Jan 18 03:44:38 since the game fix script is for linux Jan 18 03:44:49 what does the game fix script do? Jan 18 03:45:00 i havent gotten that far in the walkthrough Jan 18 03:45:29 it sets the proper permissions (allows execution of the binary program) and unpacks the ipk, changes type to "game" in the appinfo.json file, and repackages Jan 18 03:45:46 err unpacks ipk, sets permissions, changes type, repacks Jan 18 03:46:05 oh okay, have you much experience doing this? Jan 18 03:46:05 since the current version of palm-package doesn't support packaging up games Jan 18 03:46:09 can someone help me get wIRC to work? Jan 18 03:46:14 Indecom: yup, I wrote the article Jan 18 03:46:18 I can give you the details through msg Jan 18 03:46:49 oh awesome ok. found someone who knows whats up lol. thats always a good thing when looking for assistance Jan 18 03:47:40 Indecom: the game fix script won't be needed for long, palm will eventually get palm-package to package up games fine Jan 18 03:48:14 since it looks like type: game is going to be around a while I can't imagine them not supporting it better Jan 18 03:48:23 Yea, that will be nice. Jan 18 03:48:52 and I'm sure the official PDK will be a lot easier to use than what we have now Jan 18 03:49:05 (we're in early stages of the WIDK yet) Jan 18 03:49:22 So, using opengl in these apps, will that be much different than getting opengl into say a pc or linux program? Jan 18 03:50:02 no, it's basically just the same as using SDL with opengl, only we use opengl-es instead (a subset designed for mobile devices) Jan 18 03:51:00 okay, so if i were to follow some opengl programming tutorials, they would essential perform the same on the pre? Jan 18 03:51:23 well, there are important differences, mainly things that work in opengl that aren't supported in opengl-es Jan 18 03:51:41 I think but I'm not sure that everything that works in opengl-es also works in opengl proper though Jan 18 03:51:52 thus, a subset Jan 18 03:51:56 okay, so i would be better off finding opengl-es tutorials if there are any? lol Jan 18 03:52:05 Indecom: follow opengl ES tutorials :) er.. books, actually Jan 18 03:52:09 there is a huge book all about gles 2.0 specifically Jan 18 03:52:12 Indecom: yes. There's a good book on gles 2 Jan 18 03:52:13 Indecom: it's also used on the iphone, if that helps ;) Jan 18 03:52:17 http://opengles-book.com/ Jan 18 03:52:34 ohhh yes that will help tremendously, been quite some time since i did any opengl Jan 18 03:52:45 Can someone PLEASE explain to me why the testing 1.3.5.1 patch feed is not up-to-date with the regular 1.3.5.1 patch feed? I'm begging Jan 18 03:52:51 Thanks for the links Jan 18 03:53:04 Indecom: also SDL programs that don't use opengl-es will work too of course Jan 18 03:53:23 the sdlDOOM doesn't include any opengl-es at this time Jan 18 03:53:57 gollyzila, it's a branch of the patch build directory that hasn't been kept up to sync with the master branch Jan 18 03:54:10 ah, oh that reminds me, my first project is to tweak the sdlDOOM port, is there anyway to increase the resolution so its not upscaled? or would that be a big performance hit? Jan 18 03:55:21 Indecom: I actually don't know much about the sdldoom engine, it was so easy to build and run that I didn't have to learn much. I'm sure zsoc and others here know more Jan 18 03:55:34 egaudet: THANK YOU!!! So is there a way I can make Preware pull patches from the testing feed so i can use AUPT and pull patches from the regular feed so I can have up-to-date patches? Jan 18 03:56:36 Haha okay, one more thing, lets say i'm making a game and i want it to play witht eh phone turned horizontal, would i have to rotate and position everything at a 90 degree angle or does the pre auto-rotate with a certain command? Jan 18 03:56:45 uhh AUPT or APT is built INTO the patch, so what feed you download a specific patch from determines whether you have AUPT in that patch or not Jan 18 03:57:20 Indecom: what you're asking involves learning how SDL works, i would start at www.libsdl.org Jan 18 03:57:25 Indecom: this is one thing that is supported by palm's official PDK that we haven't figured out yet. They have some API's in libpdl that allow setting orientation (native rotation basically) Jan 18 03:57:53 Indecom: but the same thing can be done with OpenGL-ES and some translations or in SDL I'm sure Jan 18 03:58:03 egaudet: So all the patches in the testing feed have AUPT in it? And all of the patches in the regular feed don't? Jan 18 03:58:04 destinal, there is code in the SDL that seems to call the hook to set the orientation whenver width > height Jan 18 03:58:29 hmmm, that would be useful to learn in time Jan 18 03:58:34 how that works with gles at all is still unknown Jan 18 03:58:42 gollyzila, correct Jan 18 03:59:29 egaudet: Is it safe for me to edit my conf file to look at both the testing feed and regular one? Jan 18 03:59:53 egaudet: that's my experience as well (I assume you're looking at the code; i didn't look at that part) /however/ it only seems to respect the first time you setVideoMode Jan 18 03:59:53 egaudet: I haven't spent enough time looking at the sdl patch yet. I know that a lot of the functions we'll need to call are in libpdl Jan 18 04:00:25 regarding orientation setting etc Jan 18 04:00:40 gollyzila, You probably would only get non-AUPT in that scenario because the non-AUPT patches have been kept up to date and should most of the time have more recent version numbers. I don't know the effect of having 2 of the same version from 2 different feeds Jan 18 04:00:42 What is the syntax in bash to refer to a directory that starts with a '(' ? Jan 18 04:00:47 but we haven't really done much in the way of reversing that library and of course it's closed source Jan 18 04:00:52 uwi 11 Jan 18 04:00:58 zsoc: \( Jan 18 04:00:58 dtzWill, have you tried setting SDL_RESIZEABLE or whatever? Jan 18 04:01:05 zsoc: or use single quotes Jan 18 04:01:07 destinal: ty, again too obvious lol Jan 18 04:01:09 destinal: what library? gles one? Jan 18 04:01:27 destinal, well probably we will be calling the PDL_ ones but the SDL patch contains hooks into the NApp_ ones Jan 18 04:02:00 egaudet: or it could be the cases of my code, i didn't try it by itself Jan 18 04:02:20 egaudet: oh you know i actually didn't do that /o\. i'll give that a shot >_> <_< Jan 18 04:02:35 egaudet: that's what i was thinking too. I'll just switch back to the regular feed and keep the AUPT patches that I already have. And if it asks me, I'll update them. Jan 18 04:04:53 and the auto rotation in SDL patch for when width > height specifically makes sure not using opengles. Jan 18 04:07:15 Hey guys, thanks for all your information. I'm updating my mojo sdk here under windows, then i'm gonna set up a shared folder and see if i can't get anything going here. Jan 18 04:08:41 aaannndd, my pre won't go into usb mode Jan 18 04:09:01 For some strange reason Preware is only Capitalizing the second letter of what i am typing Jan 18 04:09:40 i <3 tar Jan 18 04:10:44 tar is fun ... though i am surprised no one ever wrote a feather compression utility for unix .. Jan 18 04:10:53 so you could tar and then feather Jan 18 04:11:27 LOL Jan 18 04:11:51 * zsoc registers #feather and recruits devs Jan 18 04:12:32 :) Jan 18 04:13:22 I just switched back to regular patch feed. 14 updates!! but thank webos-internals for Update All button. But i still have to press okay for every patch install Jan 18 04:13:45 gollyzila: you need the alpha version of ipkgservice and preware Jan 18 04:14:58 zsoc: isn't the alpha version the same as the recently released one? Jan 18 04:15:39 Hey guys, I need to edit a file in the /media/cryptofs partition. I can do this through the terminal, but access is denied through WinSCP. Seems like I need to login as root, but the password is always wrong. Can I change the root password? Jan 18 04:16:17 TIWizard, do you have to remount to rw? Jan 18 04:16:28 Does it have to be rw? Jan 18 04:16:34 yes it does Jan 18 04:16:39 I just want to look at it for starters Jan 18 04:16:45 I have the code you need to input in the settings Jan 18 04:16:47 sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server Jan 18 04:16:59 Ok, thanks. I will try that Jan 18 04:17:05 WAIT Jan 18 04:17:19 whoa Jan 18 04:17:23 I have to go into terminal and mount as rw everytime I want to use WinSCP Jan 18 04:17:46 You have to edit your session, press SFTP, and paste that into SFTP server Jan 18 04:18:30 Holy crap, my /media/cryptofs got unmounted somehow Jan 18 04:18:34 anyone ever have that happen? Jan 18 04:19:11 Hmm... I can't seem to find where to paste that line. Jan 18 04:19:25 Oh, had to check advanced options Jan 18 04:19:36 yeah, sorry i forgot that Jan 18 04:19:57 destinal: ping Jan 18 04:20:04 dBsooner, ping Jan 18 04:20:06 Royal_Dansk: pong Jan 18 04:20:10 egaudet: yes? Jan 18 04:20:28 you want to do any Terminus hacking? Jan 18 04:20:35 egaudet: same ? for u too Jan 18 04:20:59 has anyone here messed with an iphone or android phone Jan 18 04:21:06 Worked perfectly. Thanks :) Jan 18 04:21:09 sryan: I've had all three Jan 18 04:21:09 what patches need resubmission Jan 18 04:21:10 had one in the past Jan 18 04:21:12 zsoc: is that using fuse? Jan 18 04:21:17 egaudet: none, I am done. Jan 18 04:21:24 f... use? Jan 18 04:21:27 does android/iphone have webos doctor equivalents? Jan 18 04:21:38 i have an ipod touch Jan 18 04:21:40 Royal_Dansk, I'll be available in a bit, gotta push some patch stuff through Jan 18 04:21:45 yes, but not as good sryan Jan 18 04:21:47 sryan, I dont know its as powerful Jan 18 04:21:57 Pretty basic Jan 18 04:21:57 dBsooner, ok anything else to push to build.git? Jan 18 04:21:57 sryan: and yes it does Jan 18 04:22:03 I'm merging master branch into major_upgrade Jan 18 04:22:17 egaudet: WHOA turbo Jan 18 04:22:18 easy Jan 18 04:22:26 Royal_Dansk: yeah, I'm game, not sure how much time I have tonight, I'm straightening out that terminal issue Jan 18 04:22:28 You're welcome TIWizard Jan 18 04:22:33 so why are people afraid of jailbreaking Jan 18 04:22:36 egaudet: PLEASE DO NOT OVERWRITE ANY MAKEFILES Jan 18 04:22:56 egaudet: Can you not just copy over your common.mk, mods.mk, etc/ Jan 18 04:23:02 and leave the Makefile's untouched? Jan 18 04:23:18 I'll bump the version #'s through the WebOS-Patches Web Portal. Jan 18 04:23:44 Otherwise the version #'s in the Makefile's will not match what is in my MySQL databse. Jan 18 04:23:44 SWEET, there's an Easy Button on palm-web feed Jan 18 04:24:45 dBsooner, I think you think I'm doing the reverse of what I'm doing Jan 18 04:25:06 oh, yeah.. I suppose so Jan 18 04:25:12 dBsooner, for smiley box patch icon, which one are we usting of these two: Jan 18 04:25:19 http://www.webos-internals.org/images/f/f9/Icon_WebOSInternals_Patch.png Jan 18 04:25:23 http://www.webos-internals.org/images/b/b2/Icon_WebOSInternals_Patches_Smile.png Jan 18 04:25:35 umm.. Jan 18 04:25:41 Go look . ;) Jan 18 04:25:47 aannnndd all of my icons are gone. this is impressive borkage Jan 18 04:26:04 first for both Jan 18 04:26:05 on that note Jan 18 04:26:24 for both? Jan 18 04:27:08 egaudet: Sigh.. you don't keep up with patches anymore. Jan 18 04:27:23 egaudet: Yes, there was an update for smilies that I accepted last night. Jan 18 04:27:37 the "original" that was updated for 1.3.5 and then a "reverse" of that Jan 18 04:27:45 reverse? Jan 18 04:28:09 egaudet: go read Jan 18 04:28:20 that's what you have admin access for Jan 18 04:28:26 and there is a web portal that you can sort Jan 18 04:28:49 Smiley Faces in Symbol Box: Jan 18 04:28:51 Use the sym key and letter K (symbols) or Z (words) to bring up the built-in emoticons list. (updated for US English layout only) Jan 18 04:29:00 Smiley Faces in Symbol Box reverse: Jan 18 04:29:08 Use the sym key and letter K (words) or Z (symbols) to bring up the built-in emoticons list. (updated for US English layout only) Jan 18 04:29:19 yea we really need that Jan 18 04:29:20 wow Jan 18 04:29:31 Hey, I just approve what comes through. Jan 18 04:29:35 lol I know Jan 18 04:29:44 I can't believe someone decided that K and Z just had to be reversed Jan 18 04:29:50 Yeah.. me either. Jan 18 04:29:56 clutter! Jan 18 04:30:10 But I don't want to piss off a developer by saying, "don't do that.. I don't want to clutter up crap" Jan 18 04:30:16 It was their first "submittal" Jan 18 04:31:24 People do like to customize to their own personal preference Jan 18 04:34:17 rwhitby, can you rebuild testing feed when you get a chance. All latest patches from master branch merged into major_upgrade branch Jan 18 04:35:05 dBsooner, re: email Jan 18 04:35:30 rather than an email per submission, maybe an "end of day" (if there was activity) summary email? Jan 18 04:36:28 egaudet: That would take a lot of programming. I decided to just add myself to them. Jan 18 04:36:39 egaudet: No real reason, I might even turn it off. Jan 18 04:36:52 cron... lot of programming? Jan 18 04:37:31 to "keep track of the daily summary" Jan 18 04:37:49 echo "what i would email" >> end_of_day_summary Jan 18 04:38:08 but I guess I can just check git history for what I want to know Jan 18 04:38:19 Why is Preware capatilizing the second letter of what i type to search? Jan 18 04:38:27 I just want to keep the AUPT branch up to date now that the merge/release is getting closer Jan 18 04:38:59 egaudet: I recommend just copying over the changed files to master. Jan 18 04:39:14 dBsooner, well I can't do that unless I keep major_upgrade up to date Jan 18 04:39:17 you're not changing but half a dozen files. Jan 18 04:39:21 no Jan 18 04:39:32 A LOT of -0 changed to -1 in many patches' makefiles Jan 18 04:39:49 and I forgot about that but I don't want to just assume that there's nothing else Jan 18 04:39:56 so merging is the right way Jan 18 04:40:32 gollyzila, example? Jan 18 04:40:55 egaudet: bOokmark........pReware Jan 18 04:41:12 hmm it seems that this is the only channel that can hear me on freenode... why is that? Jan 18 04:41:19 gollyzila, what screen Jan 18 04:41:27 List of everything Jan 18 04:41:33 doesn't do that for me Jan 18 04:41:59 haven't updated preware/ipkgservice yet Jan 18 04:42:51 It wasn't doing that for me earlier. It just happened. And I noticed it on my mom's Pre as well. Jan 18 04:45:23 egaudet: As long as you don't change any of the patch directories or their Makefile's (including version #'s), I don't care how you do it. :) Jan 18 04:45:39 I will be changing version #'s Jan 18 04:45:41 -0 -> -1 Jan 18 04:45:56 llvm 2.6 doesn't compile with the scratchbox toolchain, but llvm 2.5 does Jan 18 04:47:59 egaudet: We should just do that now. :) Jan 18 04:48:34 dBsooner, if you want to it'll probably make the merge easier when it comes time Jan 18 04:48:58 that's where most of the conflicts were merging master into major_upgrade Jan 18 04:49:06 hmm Jan 18 04:49:19 Vote? Jan 18 04:49:29 egaudet: nvm on the capatalized second letter. It dissappeared Jan 18 04:49:34 I vote to change ALL -0 (1.1.3, 1.2.1, 1.3.1, 1.3.5) to -1's Jan 18 04:49:53 s/-1's/-1's now in the master branch/ Jan 18 04:49:54 dBsooner meant: I vote to change ALL -0 (1.1.3, 1.2.1, 1.3.1, 1.3.5) to -1's now in the master branch Jan 18 04:50:04 dBooner: i vote yay Jan 18 04:50:20 I vote nay Jan 18 04:50:21 The only downside is all users will see them as "updates" Jan 18 04:50:29 that's why I say just wait for AUPT Jan 18 04:50:34 because AUPT will require EVERY patch update Jan 18 04:50:44 we need a mass bump anyway Jan 18 04:50:55 I know.. And I want that mass bump to be done by my portal Jan 18 04:51:02 so it can bump the versions in the database too Jan 18 04:51:12 how it's done doesn't matter to me Jan 18 04:51:14 otherwise the makefile's and databse will be different. Jan 18 04:51:35 anyone know why I can't be heard in other freenode channels? lol Jan 18 04:51:46 we'll do an autobuilder freeze, merge to master, portal mass bump, and then let autobuilder go Jan 18 04:52:13 sryan-5, because other people's computers don't talk :P Jan 18 04:52:17 no i don't know sorry Jan 18 04:53:21 ok thanks :P Jan 18 04:54:44 oil, what's the status of preware update/replace dependencies? Jan 18 05:03:39 Did you guys see the Pound IRC app? Jan 18 05:04:35 Anyone wanna help me get wIRC working? :) Jan 18 05:04:37 destinal: egaudet: ping Jan 18 05:05:09 Royal_Dansk: hey Jan 18 05:05:25 so something weird is happening with evas Jan 18 05:05:34 if press F/5 Jan 18 05:05:40 i get a key event for f Jan 18 05:06:02 if i press orange + f Jan 18 05:06:10 i get a key event for Alt_R Jan 18 05:06:16 then one for 5 Jan 18 05:06:30 if I do shift + f Jan 18 05:06:35 i get Shift_L Jan 18 05:06:36 and f Jan 18 05:06:39 who are you Jan 18 05:06:39 not F Jan 18 05:06:43 idk why Jan 18 05:06:50 egaudet: whois? Jan 18 05:06:54 lol Jan 18 05:07:04 I know it's Puff :P Jan 18 05:07:30 so, this normal Jan 18 05:07:44 s/no/is no/ Jan 18 05:07:45 adrik-zarg meant: so, this is normal Jan 18 05:08:10 lol Jan 18 05:08:25 adrik-zarg: that is a statement? Jan 18 05:08:56 Royal_Dansk: yes, it is. This is the normal behavior, we dealt with it in terminal Jan 18 05:09:19 what is up with that Jan 18 05:09:23 how do i change it Jan 18 05:09:47 Royal_Dansk: as far as I know, you don't. we wrote a mapping routine for keyboard input Jan 18 05:10:19 that cant be the way it is Jan 18 05:10:22 Royal_Dansk: you also want to keep track of orange and shift presses in case someone doesn't want to chord them Jan 18 05:10:32 so that shift, then t, is considered T Jan 18 05:10:50 and also implement a shift and orange lock Jan 18 05:10:53 we did all that Jan 18 05:11:37 why would it work for orange and not shift Jan 18 05:11:53 it doesn't work for everything on orange Jan 18 05:11:57 unfortunately Jan 18 05:12:01 it's really quirky Jan 18 05:12:29 check out terminal's keyboard code sometime Jan 18 05:14:13 and since this is how hidd wants to deliver it, I don't know that we can just tell it to shut up and be sane Jan 18 05:14:21 we have to work with what we're given Jan 18 05:15:03 it just seems odd that orange would work for everything but % Jan 18 05:15:07 and shift wouldnt work at all Jan 18 05:15:12 destinal, what's quirky about it Jan 18 05:15:13 it has to be some sort of "mode" Jan 18 05:15:20 egaudet: dont work for % Jan 18 05:15:37 egaudet: iirc it was more than that. the @ sign was reversed Jan 18 05:15:48 and a couple other little things Jan 18 05:15:53 hold orange + i sends in i? Jan 18 05:16:10 destinal: @ works fine Jan 18 05:16:34 egaudet: orange+i sends nothing Jan 18 05:16:42 Royal_Dansk: hmm, maybe what we got through npapi isn't exactly the same thing Jan 18 05:16:43 then Jan 18 05:17:12 Royal_Dansk, sends nothing through what? Jan 18 05:17:57 are you getting it from SDL events? Jan 18 05:18:10 egaudet: evas events Jan 18 05:18:30 which should be the same as the SDl events Jan 18 05:18:37 do you know where evas is getting it from Jan 18 05:19:00 see line above Jan 18 05:19:02 Royal_Dansk: evas should be patched to track shift and orange and sym at any rate Jan 18 05:19:13 chording on a phone is annoying Jan 18 05:19:26 destinal: patched why? Jan 18 05:19:45 Royal_Dansk: to have webos-like behavior with shift, THEN letter = shift-letter Jan 18 05:20:00 oh Jan 18 05:20:13 well it dont even work like a normal keyboard just yet Jan 18 05:20:20 *nods* Jan 18 05:20:46 I suspect you have to track the shift press and unpress like we did in terminal though Jan 18 05:20:55 to get capital letters even chorded Jan 18 05:21:59 the keyboard events are, uh, less than ideal Jan 18 05:25:37 * destinal sucks at git. Jan 18 05:25:51 how do you pull really old versions that weren't tagged, from a repo? Jan 18 05:26:07 destinal: umm Jan 18 05:26:08 like by specific date Jan 18 05:26:16 what u say pull old version what do u mean Jan 18 05:26:22 do u know the commit id you want? Jan 18 05:26:42 Royal_Dansk: hmm.. so look at the log and find a commit id and pull that? Jan 18 05:26:48 not put Jan 18 05:27:00 git reset --hard ; git checkout -f Jan 18 05:27:06 ah, ok thanks Jan 18 05:28:09 oh gods, and *this* is the reason that applications.git was a singularly bad idea Jan 18 05:28:42 I only care about a subdirectory of it, but the log is obviously all applications stuff Jan 18 05:29:28 hmm--anyone know how to, in sdl, after already creating a videomode with opengl(es) to switch back? Jan 18 05:33:02 destinal: what are u doing Jan 18 05:33:09 applications.git isnt cloneable Jan 18 05:33:12 or shouldnt be Jan 18 05:33:16 so, in USB mode, it only shows you a bunch of stuff that isn't the primary OS and installed app files. is there a way to get at those easily? Jan 18 05:33:43 Royal_Dansk: I did clone it. I'm trying to look at stuff from several months back, early terminal plugin code to diagnose a regression Jan 18 05:34:09 I know about when this major change occurred and I'd like to try building the version from before that Jan 18 05:34:42 i wouldnt clone applications.git Jan 18 05:34:49 clone each app individually Jan 18 05:34:55 ah, ok Jan 18 05:35:11 I didn't realize that a subdirectory could be cloned instead Jan 18 05:36:44 Royal_Dansk: err. how? Jan 18 05:37:14 adding paths to the end doesn't seem to work Jan 18 05:37:30 yeah u cant do that Jan 18 05:37:35 not the way that u cloned them Jan 18 05:37:41 i didnt realize u could do what u did either Jan 18 05:38:14 Royal_Dansk: we're both talking about the old gitorious stuff right? Jan 18 05:38:22 ohhhhhhhh Jan 18 05:38:36 not me Jan 18 05:40:34 Royal_Dansk: yeah I think the earliest in the new repository is august and I don't think we preserved commits from before that (I'm not even sure it would be realistically salvageable to break one repo into multiple repos that way) Jan 18 05:41:07 so I have to deal with the pain that is gitorious's applications.git Jan 18 05:42:29 so i need to build Terminus for x86 and debug this on my PC Jan 18 05:43:03 yeah, of course the emulator's key mapping may be slightly different, yay Jan 18 05:44:08 I think all the major bugs are gone but for a while there was something like U and V both generated V in the emulator only Jan 18 05:48:54 which one? need for speed or asphalt 5?? Jan 18 05:51:11 twik: ? Jan 18 05:51:56 I'm only buying one... anybody tried both?? Jan 18 05:52:19 twik: ah, no. only one I've bought so far is xplane Jan 18 05:53:39 need for speed worth 10..havent played other one though Jan 18 05:53:59 i think other one has mutlip[layer online Jan 18 05:53:59 i'm prolly gonna end up buying all the new 3d games except for one of the racing games Jan 18 05:54:06 I have need for speed Jan 18 05:54:09 its pretty good imo Jan 18 05:54:15 only need one of those ;-) Jan 18 05:54:17 but Jan 18 05:54:24 asphalt has the multiplayer Jan 18 05:54:27 and a bit better graphis Jan 18 05:54:30 graphics* Jan 18 05:54:30 but i'm EXTRA excited about the golf game Jan 18 05:54:56 how does multiplayer work? Jan 18 05:55:21 destinal: i get the same behavior on my desktop as i get on the pre Jan 18 05:55:27 shift dont make caps Jan 18 05:55:51 Royal_Dansk: right, consistent with what we saw Jan 18 05:56:05 what "we" saw? Jan 18 05:56:11 in npapi, terminal Jan 18 05:56:12 im not talking about in the emu Jan 18 05:56:20 u guys see the first person shooter that gameloft has on the pre...its not available but they show it on there site on a pre Jan 18 05:56:26 soo... asphalt 5 it is then? Jan 18 05:56:34 Royal_Dansk: oh, you're talking regular evas? Jan 18 05:56:38 yeah Jan 18 05:56:44 i built it for my desktop to debug Jan 18 05:56:46 using sdl Jan 18 05:56:48 in a window Jan 18 05:56:53 and i get the same issue Jan 18 05:56:57 hmm, guess maybe it's an sdl thing Jan 18 05:56:57 I think dieter recommended that one in the last palmcast, but can't remember for sure Jan 18 05:56:59 i think i need to update more code Jan 18 05:57:03 destinal: its not an sdl thing Jan 18 05:57:35 destinal: its a "enterminus has been dead for 5 years" thing and evas code needs updating probably Jan 18 05:57:43 Royal_Dansk: hehe Jan 18 05:58:08 5 years IS a bit of a while for software Jan 18 05:58:08 cause i beleive shift works right in classic invaders Jan 18 05:58:40 i like that patch were u can name the launcher pages Jan 18 05:58:52 so interestingly, if you go back far enough, the terminal crash goes away. now I should be able to figure out which commit introduced it Jan 18 05:59:20 destinal: that is what git bisect is for Jan 18 05:59:51 Toaster23 twik :where did u guys see about the multiplayer at? Jan 18 06:00:10 Royal_Dansk: hey, this looks handy. I keep finding more about git to like Jan 18 06:00:30 :D Jan 18 06:01:43 Royal_Dansk: I guess there's something to be said about a revision system designed by the leader of a massive open source project with a lot of practical needs Jan 18 06:01:57 yup Jan 18 06:02:10 indeed Jan 18 06:02:21 git is a little rough to understand, but it's incredibly powerful once you grok it Jan 18 06:02:36 it's primarily designed to deal with the maintenance of code moreso than the actual hacking of it Jan 18 06:03:00 geist do u know if asphalt 5 has multiplayer? or was that a mixup with iphone description???? Jan 18 06:03:07 i have no idea whatsoever Jan 18 06:03:37 geist: I came from cvs and then svn.. IMO svn didn't go far enough away from cvs to get it right Jan 18 06:03:51 I'm listening to hidd events Jan 18 06:04:01 egaudet: cool Jan 18 06:04:07 keypad Jan 18 06:04:13 hmmm its funny because at first it had that it hade multiplayer in description...but that descripion also had listen to ur favorite iphone music while playing Jan 18 06:04:33 nice job Jan 18 06:04:36 you get them in struct input_event so looks like it's directly from the linux event Jan 18 06:05:31 egaudet: new code you've written along the lines of what SDL does? Jan 18 06:05:55 yea basically just copied from the SDL standalone code using hid, made a fake header Jan 18 06:06:10 just to test/verify it works Jan 18 06:06:24 get the power button push event, volume, center nav key Jan 18 06:07:49 egaudet: if you want to post the code somewhere as you go to save me from doing the same thing, I'd be appreciative Jan 18 06:08:54 yea, I'll throw up a wiki, let me just clean it up Jan 18 06:09:06 egaudet: a test harness is definitely needed when one is interested in making new hidd plugins Jan 18 06:10:00 and on that note, I need to sleep -- work tomorrow. night all Jan 18 06:12:11 egaudet: error in major_upgrade Makefile Jan 18 06:13:12 rwhitby, error message? Jan 18 06:14:34 egaudet: Makefile:74: *** missing separator. Stop. Jan 18 06:15:28 oh woops, missed merge conflict I guess Jan 18 06:15:40 rwhitby: retweet? :) Jan 18 06:17:36 rwhitby, the master branch's Makefile works for testing feed building right? Jan 18 06:17:55 yes, it should Jan 18 06:18:08 should be able to just copy it across Jan 18 06:18:33 pushed Jan 18 06:47:38 toaster23: how do you know that asphalt 5 has a bit better gfx? ... and multiplayer? Jan 18 06:48:03 there no multiplayer...... confirmed it Jan 18 06:48:50 its on forums Jan 18 06:48:57 egaudet: did you get a chance to chat with AnOutsider about patches and themes and aupt ? Jan 18 06:49:05 not yet Jan 18 06:49:23 hopefully we'll catch each other tomorrow Jan 18 06:49:58 destinal-sleep, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Hidd#Listening_to_Hidd_event Jan 18 06:51:01 egaudet: patches testing is rsyncing now Jan 18 06:51:23 egaudet: were you able to merge EPR ? Jan 18 06:51:44 cool thanks. I haven't put EPR into master yet, want at least a couple people to test first Jan 18 06:56:16 JMyaDaGod: so did you find out any real differences between the two then? Jan 18 06:56:53 i never used asphalt ........ Jan 18 06:59:41 egaudet: want to see something funny? Jan 18 07:00:14 maybe Jan 18 07:01:15 I was cleaning up my server and found this: http://webos.pastebin.com/d67eb0102 Jan 18 07:01:34 That was like my first project I did for the Pre.. that was from late June. Jan 18 07:08:46 heh nice Jan 18 07:08:58 egaudet: wget that and run it Jan 18 07:08:58 :) Jan 18 07:09:08 see if any of the "patches" still work Jan 18 07:09:28 I'll pass :P Jan 18 07:10:48 egaudet: patches testing feed is up Jan 18 07:11:13 alright now just need preware deps Jan 18 07:11:38 did they beat our q3 port: http://ioquake3.org/2010/01/17/ioquake3-on-the-nokia-n900/ i haven't been paying attention Jan 18 07:11:45 egaudet: so what's the test case we have for failure? Jan 18 07:12:13 uscl command line and notes patch Jan 18 07:12:19 patches* Jan 18 07:14:57 anyone having problems with Preware getting stuck on the palm-web feed? Jan 18 07:19:01 ill check now for u Jan 18 07:20:32 WillJitsu : mine worked fine Jan 18 07:20:37 WillJitsu: no problems here Jan 18 07:20:41 ok thanks Jan 18 07:21:00 WillJitsu: are you using the latest versions? what error do you see? Jan 18 07:21:05 yeah I just updated Jan 18 07:21:10 no error, just freezes on loading that one Jan 18 07:21:12 lemme try restarting Jan 18 07:21:28 rwhitby : it seems like preware updated a lot in past 2 days Jan 18 07:21:43 WillJitsu: it's hosted on the same server as all the other preware.org feeds ... Jan 18 07:22:40 rwhitby: ok it worked this time Jan 18 07:22:44 just a fluke I guess Jan 18 07:22:44 JMyaDaGod: not really, just had an idea about how to show feedback for the update process and put it in there. Jan 18 07:23:10 WillJitsu: at least now you can tell which URL is giving problems :-) Jan 18 07:23:17 rwhitby: true :) Jan 18 07:29:06 egaudet: I think we can turn off 1.2.1 building now, since there are now doctors for 1.3.x for all platforms Jan 18 07:29:18 (Telcel finally arrived) Jan 18 07:29:42 It's about time! Telcel get 1.3.5.1 .2? Jan 18 07:29:47 . Jan 18 07:29:48 1 Jan 18 07:30:03 (which is strange) Jan 18 07:31:23 so no BT for them... Jan 18 07:32:28 egaudet: I'm going to unlink the post-1.3.5 symlinks Jan 18 07:39:57 rwhitby: why? Jan 18 07:40:34 sucks i cant use page wrap and launcher page title patches together Jan 18 07:49:08 JMyaDaGod: ask the maintainer of those patches to make them compatible with each other Jan 18 07:49:08 :) Jan 18 07:59:41 dBsooner : you guys working on any fix ? Jan 18 08:00:04 JMyaDaGod: That's the maintainer of the patches job. Jan 18 08:00:10 I maintain the feed. Jan 18 08:00:48 oh ok lol i thought when u said it u were refering to asking you LMAO b/c i saw ur name lol Jan 18 08:00:57 Ahhh Jan 18 08:01:04 I probably just ported it. :) Jan 18 08:02:44 ok email sent i would really love them patches to coincide Jan 18 08:06:18 sure put your name on the maintainer's list and then don't maintain it dBsooner :P Jan 18 08:06:35 Yup, i'll look at it. Just not a priority. :) Jan 18 08:07:36 I'm just messing... go test AUPT Jan 18 08:08:00 i sent messages to both of them and lmorchard already knows because he says it in description so hopefully sooner or later.............but would love AUPT FIRST Jan 18 08:08:47 do u guys need testers for that?....not really trying to doctor all the time but if u guys really need testers i could help out anyway Jan 18 08:08:48 dBsooner, you got a install all script? Jan 18 08:09:13 I have an install-remove all script Jan 18 08:09:19 it installs, removes, installs, removes Jan 18 08:09:30 boo Jan 18 08:09:32 So i am going to get a new laptop Jan 18 08:09:37 I just doctored to 1.3.1 Jan 18 08:09:38 What should it be? Jan 18 08:09:46 quad core Jan 18 08:09:48 i wanted to install as many patches as possible Jan 18 08:10:03 get a mac Jan 18 08:10:14 envy 15 Jan 18 08:10:22 i like the envys also Jan 18 08:10:28 it has to be from best buy Jan 18 08:10:39 lol why is that? Jan 18 08:10:39 * dBsooner is probably going to be getting a shopping spree there. Jan 18 08:10:53 wow i need some verbatims DL Jan 18 08:10:54 Year end prize for safety award from my company. Jan 18 08:11:06 ran out yesterday lol Jan 18 08:11:34 online eligble too right? Jan 18 08:12:30 doubt it Jan 18 08:12:33 but maybe Jan 18 08:12:42 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/HP+-+ENVY+Laptop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i7+Processor+-+Brushed+Aluminum/9556394.p?id=1218123849552&skuId=9556394 Jan 18 08:12:59 lol dont think they giving u that much for safety though!!!! Jan 18 08:14:19 JMyaDaGod: want to bet? Jan 18 08:14:25 2 grand? Jan 18 08:14:26 JMyaDaGod: Last year I got a 2000 tv Jan 18 08:14:30 wow Jan 18 08:14:37 Safety is IMPORTANT Jan 18 08:15:01 that is what I am going to get if they let me get stuff online Jan 18 08:15:08 i cant wait to finish school maybe i can get a job that gives my a bonus for being safe lol Jan 18 08:15:17 that lappy? Jan 18 08:15:22 yeah Jan 18 08:15:30 dell's have quad cores? Jan 18 08:15:40 nice right ..and come with external dvd too Jan 18 08:16:49 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/HP+-+Pavilion+Laptop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i7+Processor/9556312.p?id=1218123847836&skuId=9556312 Jan 18 08:16:53 that might not be bad Jan 18 08:17:06 leaves me a little extra to buy my new SlingBox Jan 18 08:17:07 :) Jan 18 08:17:24 yea pavalions are nice 2 pounds heavier Jan 18 08:17:38 buy one of these for $749: Jan 18 08:17:39 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_dynSessConf=-4845873037158973334&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=palm+pre&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960 Jan 18 08:17:56 lol Jan 18 08:18:32 the ENVY comes with TWO batteries? Jan 18 08:18:59 does it? Jan 18 08:19:21 6-cell and 9-cell lithium-ion polymer batteries Jan 18 08:19:24 yeah Jan 18 08:19:26 woww nice Jan 18 08:19:29 yeah Jan 18 08:20:06 envy 1080 also Jan 18 08:20:31 yeah Jan 18 08:20:47 I think that would be the best :) Jan 18 08:21:09 i like envy but i cant afford envy so i will probably get pavalion Jan 18 08:21:41 I am just tired of my toshiba Jan 18 08:21:46 and it's only a year old Jan 18 08:22:08 i havent looked at lappys since after ces so i dont know yet i am getting in march with my student loan Jan 18 08:24:30 im gonna probably look for my best option around end of Feb Jan 18 08:26:23 yo, rwhitby! oil! Jan 18 08:26:54 I'm bugging out Jan 18 08:27:10 If you guys don't have Preware 1.0 by April, I'll be very disappointed ;) Jan 18 08:31:46 * dBsooner hugs his test-patches.sh script! Jan 18 08:32:40 * egaudet hugs his mass-patch install script Jan 18 08:32:52 lol Jan 18 08:32:59 mine's more important Jan 18 08:33:12 for undisclosed reasons. Jan 18 08:35:06 egaudet: lsdiff in optware now? Jan 18 08:35:13 dBsooner, yea Jan 18 08:35:23 Rod added it earlier Jan 18 08:35:34 egaudet: it going to take the place of diff in the AUPT postinst/prerm? Jan 18 08:36:57 of diffstat yes Jan 18 08:37:26 diffstat -l doesn't work right, found bugs in it not getting filenames when tabs preceded patch lines Jan 18 08:43:25 Adora|Home! Yippee! Jan 18 08:43:43 dBsooner: what are we celebrating? Jan 18 08:43:45 She should retweet! Jan 18 08:43:58 Adora|Home: your arrival, of course! Jan 18 08:44:12 I was just about to pass out.. now I got good things to think of while laying down. Jan 18 08:44:22 LMAO Jan 18 08:44:41 >_< Jan 18 08:45:21 dBsooner last time i was in bestbuy around here they didnt have any quad cores out Jan 18 08:46:00 (00) Jan 18 08:46:47 ok sleep before wife wakes up and says damn 4am again!!!! Jan 18 08:46:50 pz Jan 18 08:47:30 Adora|Home: retweet me! :) Jan 18 08:47:50 dBsooner: remind me tomorrow Jan 18 08:47:55 Adora|Home: no Jan 18 08:47:59 nobody's up now, it would be a wasted tweet Jan 18 08:48:14 Adora|Home: wait ok.. I will do that. Make sure you get on IRC tomorrow then. Jan 18 08:48:27 I hate emailing @palm.com .. makes me feel dirty. Jan 18 08:48:32 hahaha Jan 18 08:48:40 you can dmsg me Jan 18 08:49:34 Explain. Jan 18 08:49:51 direct message on twitter Jan 18 08:50:01 OHHH.. damn twitter talk Jan 18 08:50:52 I see it as DM Jan 18 08:51:39 dm sounds too much like bm Jan 18 08:51:43 and THAT"S dirty Jan 18 08:51:57 Very good point. Jan 18 08:52:25 Well, I must sleep. Jan 18 08:52:39 wait.. I must fix bright red on the WebOS-Patches Web Portal first Jan 18 08:52:43 Adora|Home: favorite color? Jan 18 08:53:01 black =] Jan 18 08:53:36 besides black Jan 18 08:54:16 who needs colors other than black? Jan 18 08:54:32 Yeah, i agree. Jan 18 08:54:39 But since the site is already black font.. Jan 18 08:54:41 my second favorite would be red Jan 18 08:54:42 and grey background.. Jan 18 08:54:53 but that's what you're trying to fix, innit? Jan 18 08:54:55 how about crimson? Jan 18 08:55:16 how about PALM ORANGE? Jan 18 08:55:35 hmm Jan 18 08:59:55 http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/?do=browse&webosver=all&category=App%20Launcher Jan 18 08:59:58 Adora|Home, do you use any notification apps on your computer, and what OS do you use? Jan 18 08:59:59 still too bright I think Adora|Home Jan 18 09:00:17 acydlord: osx snow leopard, and I use growl Jan 18 09:00:28 k, thx Adora|Home Jan 18 09:00:47 dBsooner: indeed Jan 18 09:00:48 i need to get the effing survey up so i can get data for my notification app for the pre Jan 18 09:00:58 dBsooner, try a blue on that background Jan 18 09:01:00 dBsooner: I'm thinking cornflower blue Jan 18 09:01:02 like a slate color Jan 18 09:01:26 http://geekism.us <- the black/grey on blue looks good on my site Jan 18 09:02:26 http://webos-patches.dbsooner.com/?do=browse&webosver=all&category=App%20Launcher Jan 18 09:03:04 maybe just a tad brighter? Jan 18 09:03:14 acydlord: I agree Jan 18 09:03:43 there's nothing wrong with the way it is now if you need to get to bed, but I was picturing something lighter, too Jan 18 09:04:53 refrewsh Jan 18 09:04:56 refresh even Jan 18 09:05:19 looks better Jan 18 09:05:57 refresh again Jan 18 09:05:58 just noticed this, but you could probably also sample the color in the bandaid part of the icons Jan 18 09:10:18 refresh acydlord Jan 18 09:10:30 too light? Jan 18 09:10:58 yeah, its a bit too light, the last one was probably better for the eyes Jan 18 09:12:54 gotta reinstall tikiwiki so i can have bugtracking for any apps/patches i make Jan 18 09:13:12 that better? Jan 18 09:13:25 yeah, that looks good Jan 18 09:13:57 k Jan 18 09:13:58 bed now Jan 18 09:14:17 night Jan 18 09:14:24 im going to bed as soon as i start this upload Jan 18 09:17:52 night kids Jan 18 09:49:56 gotta say, freetether sure was a refreshing change just now. I had tried mytether paid version several times before and it never worked once, including, it never worked the few times I really needed it. Jan 18 09:50:15 freetether just now, first time, bang. Jan 18 11:40:34 anyone online to help?? Jan 18 11:41:13 hi Jan 18 11:41:24 yes Jan 18 11:41:37 ahh thankyou Jan 18 11:41:42 ok bye Jan 18 11:42:10 ive tried everything trying to install preware and PMS onto my wifes pixi. had it working beofre but had to get a new one cause hers died Jan 18 11:42:25 Keeps telling me pms service is not started Jan 18 11:42:39 how did u install preware/pms? Jan 18 11:42:43 did you perform a reset? Jan 18 11:42:55 ive reinstalled, rebooted, full wiped whole phone, and even doctored it twice and still no luck on this pixi Jan 18 11:42:57 hi swisstomcat :) Jan 18 11:43:13 through quick install Jan 18 11:43:14 hallo metaview Jan 18 11:43:36 which version of web os quick install? Jan 18 11:43:59 2.6 Jan 18 11:44:12 I have 2.9 Jan 18 11:44:28 aha will try and find that Jan 18 11:45:33 is the pixi on webos 1.3.5 too? Jan 18 11:46:21 when i had it working beofre it was on 3.1 then updated to 3.5.1 Jan 18 11:46:34 this one was updated to 3.5.1 BEFORE installing preware and wont work Jan 18 11:46:46 ive doctored back to 3.1 to try that and still doesnt work Jan 18 11:46:56 webos quick install 2.96 is required for 1.3.5 Jan 18 11:47:03 as far as i remember Jan 18 11:47:34 newone, update to the latest os Jan 18 11:47:41 the use the latest webos quick install Jan 18 11:48:00 i know it's hard to find they keep the old posts around Jan 18 11:48:07 the first results on google are the outdated versions Jan 18 11:48:24 will do and report back. THANK YOU Jan 18 11:48:30 have a nice day Jan 18 11:48:34 thank you for purchasing a palm pre Jan 18 11:48:40 /pixi Jan 18 11:50:14 metaview: i've added gps support to my fahrplan app (find the closest stations) Jan 18 11:51:22 yep it was the version of QI. I had the latest one before but like an idiot didnt save it just ran it. Then when i grabbed it again i thought it was from the same place but obviously it was outdated. THANKS again...from my wife an I Jan 18 11:53:27 that's what palm pays us for Jan 18 11:54:50 swisstomcat: cool Jan 18 11:55:54 i wonder if 95 has traffic during the mornings Jan 18 11:57:37 open google maps and turn on traffic view Jan 18 11:58:39 I did but i'm suspcious Jan 18 11:58:49 the best thing ever on the pre is shoutcast Jan 18 11:58:55 but my charger makes a buzzing noise Jan 18 11:58:58 in the headphone output Jan 18 11:59:03 noone believes me Jan 18 11:59:10 i'm thinking it's a cheap charger Jan 18 12:00:04 too bad the pre maps doesn't give you any options for traffic Jan 18 12:00:18 sprint navigator does Jan 18 12:00:21 but if you avoid it Jan 18 12:00:27 it just takes you on annoying side roads Jan 18 12:00:40 the web version lets you put a day and time and shows traffic based on the past conditions Jan 18 12:00:58 so you can see what it normally is like Jan 18 12:02:11 i haven't started up sprint navigation in a while... why the heck is it asking for my name Jan 18 12:05:45 when you press one the traffic-symbol it shows the names of people inside the traffic jam :D Jan 18 12:07:10 so you can find them later Jan 18 12:07:12 and kill them Jan 18 12:10:29 take the train Jan 18 12:10:33 no traffic jams :) Jan 18 12:12:19 but the train is so slow Jan 18 12:12:37 not of you're stuck in traffic for hours Jan 18 12:12:46 depends where you are of course Jan 18 12:13:42 yes , i take the train to get to nyc Jan 18 12:13:45 because of traffic Jan 18 12:13:57 what are some cool apps on the pre Jan 18 12:14:04 there are too many to look at Jan 18 12:14:43 Match This! Jan 18 12:14:45 :) Jan 18 12:15:16 fahrplan Jan 18 12:15:18 :) Jan 18 12:15:24 best palm pre app is freetether Jan 18 12:15:36 paratroopers Jan 18 12:15:59 Wikay but it's unreleased yet Jan 18 12:16:21 what is it? Jan 18 12:18:19 Wikay is a some wikipedia-info-of-today-app Jan 18 12:18:43 oh Jan 18 12:18:43 hey Jan 18 12:18:46 your latest app? Jan 18 12:18:51 yes Jan 18 12:18:55 cool Jan 18 12:18:56 when you have headphones plugged in, can people hear you Jan 18 12:18:59 ever seen something like this: Jan 18 12:19:00 require Failed: unbalanced call to PerfTimer pause/resume 'scene#aboutToActivateLatency' Jan 18 12:19:01 let me know if i can beta-test it Jan 18 12:19:02 speakerphone style Jan 18 12:19:28 think so towzzer Jan 18 12:19:41 metaview: never seen Jan 18 12:20:40 will ask the forum about Jan 18 12:21:16 metaview: are you using a profiler? Jan 18 12:25:28 no Jan 18 12:45:57 because of "unbalanced call to PerfTimer" Jan 18 12:47:12 the pre doesn't have a compass thing right? Jan 18 12:47:15 nothing accurate Jan 18 12:47:17 it just uses gps Jan 18 12:57:15 as far as i know yes, no compass Jan 18 12:58:17 you know, i love my palm pre Jan 18 12:58:23 I had a flip before it and the one thing i can't stand Jan 18 12:58:27 is how careful you have to be Jan 18 12:58:30 because of the touch screen Jan 18 12:58:38 it's so easy to cancel whatever application you were using Jan 18 12:59:54 they should make a flip touch screen Jan 18 12:59:59 hm Jan 18 14:15:53 Jason needs an update checker in his app Jan 18 14:17:12 Kyusaku: amen to that Jan 18 14:19:11 every other day I see someone come in here and say they have QuickInstall version 2.6 or something Jan 18 14:21:02 rwhitby: have you thought about adding a warning when installing a theme, to prevent theme stacking? Jan 18 14:21:29 Kyusaku: patch guys and theme guys are getting together to sort it out Jan 18 14:21:52 that's another issue I keep seeing. People don't seem to realize that theming right now is pretty much a hack. Jan 18 14:22:03 I see Jan 18 14:22:17 we're going to make it use the same aupt technology as patches Jan 18 14:24:05 oh I don't know if you can suggest something but I installed Jason's Menu Megamix patch around Preware 9.12 or 9.15 or so and ever since 9.16 or so Preware doesn't detect it being installed anymore Jan 18 14:25:00 I can't remember the exact package manager service that upgraded to that made it lose it Jan 18 14:28:01 rwhitby: ping Jan 18 14:28:36 PuffTheMagic: pong Jan 18 14:28:48 rwhitby: could you please make a Trac for Terminus Jan 18 14:29:15 im about to my git repo for my work so far Jan 18 14:29:45 where is the repo? Jan 18 14:29:58 i havent pushed it yet Jan 18 14:30:04 i am about to make it Jan 18 14:30:21 do you want the trac to connect to it? Jan 18 14:30:24 it will be applications/terminus.git Jan 18 14:30:28 no Jan 18 14:30:31 i usually disable that Jan 18 14:31:23 rwhitby: unless you think i could create a new category Jan 18 14:31:30 for sdl type applications Jan 18 14:34:03 PuffTheMagic: Trac done Jan 18 14:34:41 could you also make the applications/terminus.git repo visible Jan 18 14:34:47 thanks in advance Jan 18 14:39:14 rwhitby: xcomp said he got some of the efl libs building but they are still in nonworking in cross-compile repo so until he gets that working i am going to package my libs and install them to /usr/local/terminus_deps Jan 18 14:54:22 hmm preware seems to get hosed up many times on startup when its loading the feeds for me. couldn't it tell you which feed it's currently stuck on, so that you know which one to disable? Jan 18 14:54:58 is that a question? Jan 18 14:55:08 yeah Jan 18 14:55:10 there is a question mark Jan 18 14:55:33 But, sounds more like a statement Jan 18 14:55:48 or even have a 'skip' button next to the display of the current feed ;) Jan 18 14:58:01 yeah, i had the same problem over the weekend Jan 18 14:58:10 stuck on "loading feeds" Jan 18 14:58:31 mine is stuck right now.. Jan 18 15:02:11 a skip feed button would be great Jan 18 15:06:28 actually I guess it does list the feeds as it goes through them. but when mine hangs, it does it before even getting to that list. but then the notice says 'disable feeds until you find the one that is hanging' .. even though it hasn't started the feed list yet.. heh Jan 18 15:13:00 you could tell, actually if you were doing it on the emulator and grabbing a packet capture :) or even from terminal, if netstats was looked at Jan 18 15:13:43 but I guess a simpler way would just be to disable them one at a time... as there aren't that many feeds right now Jan 18 15:13:58 lol, i just updated preware and now it *does* list the feed url's as it downloads them. so feature already added.. cool ;) Jan 18 15:14:49 what version of preware? Jan 18 15:15:08 if you wanted to add a 'skip' button you could probably do that yourself and share, it's an open source Jan 18 15:16:30 when that happens just go to the menu Jan 18 15:16:36 and select update feeds Jan 18 15:16:43 and it starts over and usually works Jan 18 15:18:07 ahh, ok Jan 18 15:18:15 time for frosted mini wheats Jan 18 15:18:34 I could write a timer for it that retries once, after one minute. Jan 18 15:19:38 but then gives up if no Joy on the retry (to avoid endless looping) Jan 18 15:27:12 PuffTheMagic: ping Jan 18 15:27:19 sup Jan 18 15:27:31 what's the git command to create a new branch locally and remotely? Jan 18 15:28:16 there is no 1 command that does both locally and remotely Jan 18 15:28:25 ok.. to just create it Jan 18 15:28:31 then I'll push it to create it remotely Jan 18 15:28:36 correct Jan 18 15:28:47 do u know what commit you want your branch to be based on? Jan 18 15:29:05 I can get that info, yes. Jan 18 15:29:19 it would be based off a commit to a different branch Jan 18 15:29:42 083dbfb41e5dfaa69911e0921027cacaaab5360d Jan 18 15:29:47 do you want to immediately checkout this new branch or just create it locally? Jan 18 15:29:58 immediately checkout so I can remove files from it Jan 18 15:30:04 is that commit HEAD? Jan 18 15:30:17 How do I know? Jan 18 15:30:26 is it the last commit? Jan 18 15:30:30 yes Jan 18 15:30:31 or is it a tag? Jan 18 15:30:33 that is last commit Jan 18 15:30:38 that is the last commit Jan 18 15:30:44 from the battery point of view, is getting mail IMAP IDLE or polling every hour better? If I understand correctly, IMAP IDLE needs to reconnect every half hour. I don't need mail instantly, just regularly. Jan 18 15:30:45 i beleive you can always use ^HEAD Jan 18 15:30:51 as the last commit Jan 18 15:30:52 but anyway Jan 18 15:30:57 there was a "via" missing Jan 18 15:31:30 I basically want to create the new branch based off another branch, then remove a bunch of files and commit it. Jan 18 15:31:42 I don't want to commit the initial branch with all the extra files in it Jan 18 15:33:00 git checkout -b HEAD Jan 18 15:33:20 HI @ everyone Jan 18 15:34:01 hi Jan 18 15:34:09 bsm: i switched to 1 hour poll Jan 18 15:35:15 swisstomcat: any special reason? Jan 18 15:35:15 I developing my first webOS app and i'm not a pro in javascript. I'm wondering how to use a constant stage wide. Jan 18 15:35:30 bsm: it seemed that push was using more battery .. but only if you get a lot of email Jan 18 15:35:48 pamelpibuh: #webos would be a good place for that Jan 18 15:36:12 i can help you there Jan 18 15:38:16 thanks, i switched Jan 18 15:46:31 http://www.webos-internals.org/images/c/cb/Terminus.png Jan 18 15:49:15 cool Jan 18 15:49:19 * swisstomcat likes sirloin Jan 18 15:55:02 heya PuffTheMargic: do youthink Ares is good enough to replace WebOS Add-On? I hate to abandon my WebOS Add-on and wanted to know what u thought Jan 18 15:56:03 actuallY i think I know I'll just stay with the tried and true, as it works for me. Jan 18 15:58:24 what add-on? Jan 18 15:58:27 the eclipse plugin? Jan 18 15:59:01 the Komodo one Jan 18 15:59:06 Komodo IDE Jan 18 15:59:14 i dont use that Jan 18 16:00:16 ah, it was Templarian's, sorry for my confusion Jan 18 16:03:24 I don't think ares is a replacement for any standard IDE Jan 18 16:03:52 its nice for rapid layout Jan 18 16:03:55 imo Jan 18 16:04:27 that would be its strong point. but it's not good on source editing, which is unfortunately still very much necessary in Ares Jan 18 16:04:42 I've had various issues with layout in Ares too Jan 18 16:05:37 egaudet: oh, hey, cool, I didn't realize I already had created an article for you to add your info into (many months ago) Jan 18 16:05:45 egaudet: good writeup and code Jan 18 16:10:12 CoolMatty: I think ares and SDK can be used together well, though, right? Jan 18 16:11:49 PuffTheMagic: cool screenshot. did you figure out what evas and/or terminus do wrong regarding capital letters? Jan 18 16:11:59 nope Jan 18 16:12:07 talked to raster about it a little Jan 18 16:12:29 since it happens on my desktop too it has to be an evas/ecore sdl issue Jan 18 16:13:03 PuffTheMagic: I think it's an SDL thing Jan 18 16:13:54 PuffTheMagic: it may just be designed to give you the modifier and the unmodified key code together Jan 18 16:14:03 cant we test this in another sdl app? Jan 18 16:14:08 sure Jan 18 16:14:57 i have no cable yet Jan 18 16:15:02 * PuffTheMagic is watching springer Jan 18 16:15:24 3way cat fight Jan 18 16:17:39 hmm Jan 18 16:17:48 PuffTheMagic: when I try to git push, it says, "Everything is up to date" Jan 18 16:18:04 dBsooner: did u do 'git push origin ' Jan 18 16:18:45 same result Jan 18 16:18:50 let me try again Jan 18 16:19:06 disregard Jan 18 16:19:08 I typoed Jan 18 16:19:30 grr.. what file sets your SSH identity? Jan 18 16:20:34 PuffTheMagic: looks like the program we want is checkkeys in the SDL tree Jan 18 16:21:06 libsdl-1.2/test Jan 18 16:22:38 PuffTheMagic: http://webos.pastebin.com/m469a6ebc Jan 18 16:22:58 rwhitby: ping Jan 18 16:23:06 so on my ubuntu PC I get a 97 whether or not shift is hit Jan 18 16:23:11 destinal: you already built it? Jan 18 16:23:29 PuffTheMagic: yup .. was just cd test; ./configure && make Jan 18 16:23:40 ompload it real quick Jan 18 16:23:41 PuffTheMagic: I have user.name=Daniel Beames and user.email={my.email}, but my git commits show up in the logs as "dBsooners Stuff" Jan 18 16:24:23 in what file? Jan 18 16:24:35 that's in `git config --list` Jan 18 16:24:45 i did it as --global Jan 18 16:24:48 http://omploader.org/vM2FieA/checkkeys Jan 18 16:24:55 what is in ~/.gitconfig Jan 18 16:25:19 [user] then the same Jan 18 16:25:31 wait no Jan 18 16:25:33 name = Jan 18 16:25:34 and email = Jan 18 16:25:38 not user.name = Jan 18 16:25:48 same difference Jan 18 16:25:53 oh Jan 18 16:25:55 make sure that file is correcnt Jan 18 16:25:59 dont use git config Jan 18 16:26:08 then see if its correct Jan 18 16:26:17 [user] Jan 18 16:26:17 name = Daniel Beames Jan 18 16:26:17 email = Jan 18 16:26:25 I ommitted email because of logs. :) Jan 18 16:26:57 does git strip whitespace? Jan 18 16:27:46 ohh.. I see the problem Jan 18 16:27:54 my user.email does not match my key's email Jan 18 16:28:05 * dBsooner goes to create new keys Jan 18 16:28:10 dBsooner: I don't think that matters, actually Jan 18 16:28:15 oh Jan 18 16:28:40 destinal: checkkeys works properly in SDL Jan 18 16:28:44 keys are perfect Jan 18 16:29:01 PuffTheMagic: sure, but notice it shows 97 for A and a , so it's not raw key code Jan 18 16:29:07 not sure what it's doing Jan 18 16:30:13 its getting the modifier properly Jan 18 16:30:31 i think i need to update the keybindings in ecore for sdl Jan 18 16:31:23 PuffTheMagic: so SDL keeps track of the modifiers for you, you don't have to? Jan 18 16:31:33 correct Jan 18 16:31:39 *nods* Jan 18 16:31:47 makes sense Jan 18 16:31:56 but somtehing it getting messed up in the conversion to ecore Jan 18 16:34:39 destinal: (like 15 minutes later) yeah you can use Ares and SDK together, but ares is kinda annoying to keep reopening existing projects with Jan 18 16:42:29 what is the screenshot keystroke again? Jan 18 16:45:15 hia all. I just ran EPR, but still show a patch installed. when I try to manually remove, the first error in IPKG log says "unreversed patch detected" what should I check or run to clear this out? Jan 18 16:46:22 found it Jan 18 16:46:35 orange+sym+P is pretty difficult to hit Jan 18 16:46:42 even with my little hands Jan 18 16:46:49 I think that's intentional :p Jan 18 16:47:02 jettero: I agree lol Jan 18 16:47:17 its much easier if you just put it on a desk and use your fingers :p Jan 18 16:57:28 So I tought myself C++ over the weekend and wrote an NPAPI plugin for my "mystery app" (hehe) Jan 18 16:57:33 WebOS Doctor needs an option to delete the media partition, like an optional checkbox Jan 18 16:57:40 So now I don't have to use an always-running java service to do what I need Jan 18 16:57:57 riskable: nice Jan 18 16:58:00 riskable: you gonna share what it is? Jan 18 16:58:18 open the door to your mystery app Jan 18 16:58:19 riskable: yup. NPAPI is fun, and palm's implementation is pretty standard except for keyboard / mouse / screen. Jan 18 16:59:00 ...but I'm curious of two things: 1) Would Palm flat out reject an app that uses/installs its own custom plugin? 2) In the future (with sandboxing) would such a plugin even work? Jan 18 16:59:01 riskable: so if you're doing something with a pure mojo UI it's really easy to use all the standard API docs Jan 18 16:59:25 riskable: I have a feeling that after the PDK comes out there will be official app catalog possibilities for plugins Jan 18 16:59:37 wouldn't make much sense otherwise Jan 18 16:59:43 Yeah, I'm hoping so Jan 18 17:00:17 The only thing I'd be worried about would be a requirement to have plugins be installed separately as their own app... and I want to know how Palm would handle dependencies on plugins Jan 18 17:00:49 riskable: I doubt plugins will have to be their own app. there will be some kind of integration Jan 18 17:00:54 For example, I might have to post two apps: My actual app and then a plugin app that is only useful for my actual app (hehe) Jan 18 17:00:54 into same ipk Jan 18 17:01:03 OK, that'd be good Jan 18 17:01:16 Also, do we know if these plugins will run as root? Jan 18 17:01:23 ...because if not my plugin will be useless Jan 18 17:01:24 mystery app *grins* Jan 18 17:01:42 riskable is going to come back and go "hey guys, like my porn app!" :) Jan 18 17:01:43 riskable: that's unknown but I have a feeling that we won't get root Jan 18 17:01:58 psykoz: LOL Jan 18 17:02:32 you can probably do most things through DBus though Jan 18 17:02:35 destinal: Well, I don't need root per se if they figure out a way where my app can edit a file owned by root :) Jan 18 17:02:37 isnt' that what it's for? Jan 18 17:02:55 riskable: I kind of doubt you'll be able to do what you want :( Jan 18 17:03:03 jettero: I'd LOVE to use dbus but unfortunately the part of the system I'm messing with isn't compiled with dbus support (presently) Jan 18 17:04:23 For example: I want to write an app that can change dnsmasq settings depending on your location... dnsmasq can support dbus but Palm hasn't enabled that aspect of dnsmasq on WebOS Jan 18 17:04:53 indeed Jan 18 17:06:52 Now I'm curious if dnsmasq is compiled with dbus support on the Pre... I assumed not but I'm going to manually try enabling it Jan 18 17:06:56 riskable: The Preware has many apps that seem to write files owned by root, they run a script asking for user permission - the Quake installer for example... not sure if that style will fit your needs Jan 18 17:07:31 FreeTim: I'm already aware of that but my goal is to get my app into the app store (or at least working via web-only distribution) Jan 18 17:09:30 I hear you there. Just my opinion, but I kind of doubt Palm is ever going to let developers freely modify root-owned files in the system area Jan 18 17:09:51 at least to Apps permitted in their store, ya know? Jan 18 17:10:03 I would actually hope they wouldn't Jan 18 17:10:50 If I were Palm, it would seem very risky Jan 18 17:11:42 no pun intended, riskable Jan 18 17:12:50 Yeah, it is Jan 18 17:13:00 I completely understand why they want to keep all apps sandboxed Jan 18 17:13:25 The difference is huge when it comes to the average Joe owning the phone and downloading Apps, compared to (likely) somewhat system-savvy Preware users aware of the risks they are taking (and likely can figure out how to restore.) Jan 18 17:14:03 BTW: I just tested dnsmasq... If you try to start it up with the "--enable-dbus" option it throws an error saying it wasn't compiled with dbus support Jan 18 17:32:17 where can i store iptables rules which are executed at boot? Jan 18 17:34:36 have you searched for iptables? Jan 18 17:36:20 hucksy -- are you wanting to run a script at boot every time? or are you just wanting to modify the iptables and have it stored ???? Jan 18 17:41:19 Rick_work: yep, i wanting to add a iptables rule at boot (INPUT) Jan 18 17:51:03 weirdest thing just happened to me today. I opened up my terminal app on the Pre (which I haven't looked at in maybe a week?) and my hostname is RED ; cwd is BLUE. Jan 18 17:51:31 Did you install bash? Jan 18 17:51:34 can anyone shed some light on this? anyone else seen it? I'm wondering if my device has been compromised by some package I installed Jan 18 17:51:56 AH! riskable: you're right! I updated bash this weekend I think Jan 18 17:51:57 What's root's shell set to in /etc/passwd? Jan 18 17:51:59 ryran: same here Jan 18 17:52:06 Well there you go Jan 18 17:52:07 its bash Jan 18 17:53:06 where is PS1 set for busybox? Jan 18 17:53:44 cuz root user is still using /bin/sh (busybox) for it's login shell Jan 18 17:55:49 does anyone know in what config file the PS1 variable is set? Jan 18 17:56:21 oh. profile. who's cooking up this non-standard stuff? geeze... Jan 18 17:56:57 PS1 isn't an environment variable.. it doesn't need to be exported...weird Jan 18 18:05:02 howdy Jan 18 18:08:06 hi jacques Jan 18 18:11:01 hmm, log for the 16th is missing Jan 18 18:11:33 bad patch install... visited EPR and repair utility... yay Jan 18 18:11:46 any word on getting bulk patch installs in preware? lol Jan 18 18:16:04 anything fun going on today Jan 18 18:17:20 * jacques just got here Jan 18 18:19:00 egaudet_work: I am doing a full erase and doctor on a pre... is that fun? Jan 18 18:19:24 and I ran EPR and the recovery on mine Jan 18 18:19:40 (the full erase and doctor is a friend at work) Jan 18 18:19:56 he wants his pre "completely cleaned and then set up like mine" Jan 18 18:20:18 so step one is full erase + doctor... step 2, preware, step 3 install 57 different patches, lol Jan 18 18:20:31 step 4 is drink the case of beer he is giving me as payment Jan 18 18:20:42 nice! Jan 18 18:20:53 so, any word on mass patch installs? Jan 18 18:20:59 shell scripts Jan 18 18:21:01 :P Jan 18 18:21:06 I know someone said that preware was going to get it "eventually" Jan 18 18:21:18 I mean something more like have preware generate that shell script Jan 18 18:21:20 I think preware's roadmap contains multi-package installs, not just for patches Jan 18 18:21:27 egaudet_work: I think I am going to delete the .LICENSE files Jan 18 18:21:39 there is no real reason to have those sense we aren't distributing them in the IPK's Jan 18 18:22:12 full erase done, doctor time... Jan 18 18:22:29 I am leaving the theme up to him... he can put whateer he wants on there Jan 18 18:22:43 I will let him keep the green background orange plant thing it has stock, lol Jan 18 18:24:51 Back again! I was having problems uninstalling a patch, so I ran EPR. After the restart the patch is still there, and when I try to remove it with PreWare, I get "Unreversed patch detected!" in the IPKG Log. What should I look at or run to start fixing this? Jan 18 18:25:10 remove it with QI Jan 18 18:25:17 it will yell at you but it iwll go away Jan 18 18:25:21 *will Jan 18 18:25:41 that is what I do in the past, I don't know if preware can fix that or not, but someone smarter than me will no doubt chime in and answer that Jan 18 18:25:57 why does the doctor take so long... Jan 18 18:26:02 cryptk|home: cool, I'll try that! Jan 18 18:26:12 and why did this guy have to ask me to "clean and make it like mine" instead of just "make it like mine" Jan 18 18:28:17 because all the world is a stage, and everyone thinks they're the star. Jan 18 18:32:05 Anyone here? Jan 18 18:32:13 nope Jan 18 18:33:08 anyone not here? Jan 18 18:33:37 around 6 billion people Jan 18 18:33:56 heh Jan 18 18:34:00 Haha okay. Well I was wondering if I close wIRC by swiping the card away, is it still connected in the background? Jan 18 18:34:49 nope Jan 18 18:34:51 gollyzila: no it should not be Jan 18 18:34:55 still connected Jan 18 18:34:58 if you close all of the wirc windows, it disconencts Jan 18 18:35:03 really? Jan 18 18:35:12 I think so... Jan 18 18:35:17 I thought I had done that and looked at netstat and it was still connected Jan 18 18:35:27 it may stay connected for a little bit Jan 18 18:35:30 but that might not be the norman behavior Jan 18 18:35:34 but I think it will close after a few seconds Jan 18 18:35:41 s/norman/normal/ Jan 18 18:35:41 jacques meant: but that might not be the normal behavior Jan 18 18:36:05 buddies phone finished the doctor... Jan 18 18:36:10 finally... Jan 18 18:37:32 Oh okay. Thanks. I have wIRC to automatically connect to #webos-internals. When it opens, the server channel is still open. Is there way to have it automatically close that server card? Jan 18 18:37:58 I cant get wIRC to work at all... Jan 18 18:38:15 Abyssul: did you install the wIRC service? Jan 18 18:38:18 Yes Jan 18 18:38:20 there are 2 parts to it... Jan 18 18:38:22 hrm... Jan 18 18:38:24 Ive reinstalled both Jan 18 18:38:30 Restarted Jan 18 18:38:37 I can give the error it gives when trying to connect Jan 18 18:38:46 sure Jan 18 18:38:49 what does it give? Jan 18 18:39:08 I am not a wIRC dev or anything, but I use it alot so I *may* be able to help Jan 18 18:39:12 Haha let me reinstall it :p Jan 18 18:39:39 "Preferred interface is not avaliable and use fall backs is false... not connecting" Jan 18 18:40:02 Check your settings Jan 18 18:40:31 "Preferred Interface" in Preferences in the App Menu Jan 18 18:40:37 Hmmm Jan 18 18:41:09 yeah, it's configured to use 3r or wifi exclusively and that interface is not available Jan 18 18:41:19 s/3r/3g/ Jan 18 18:41:19 jacques meant: yeah, it's configured to use 3g or wifi exclusively and that interface is not available Jan 18 18:41:26 can't type at all today Jan 18 18:42:33 the error tells you exactly what the issue is :P Jan 18 18:43:07 it is indeed an informative message Jan 18 18:43:09 wIRC is not supposed to remain connected when swiped away, although there is a bug that has been observed once in a while the app doesn't completely close and there is a headless part left around Jan 18 18:43:17 either enable the use of fallbackdevices, or connect to a WiFi network (if you have wifi set as default interface Jan 18 18:43:31 egaudet_work, I have seen that. Jan 18 18:44:04 set preferred to wan0 if you have good service because evdo changes less than wifi Jan 18 18:44:48 if you use wifi as preferred, once your routing/ip changes you will stop getting messages and eventually time out when freenode decides you aren't pinging back anyore after about 6 minutes Jan 18 18:44:53 wifi wasn;t very useful back when it disconnected every time the screen dimmed Jan 18 18:50:41 BAH, I was smart enough to get the guys passwords (to his palm profile and whatnot) so i can set his phone all up, he never told me he has every damn new app thta is out... Jan 18 18:50:52 I am gonna be waiting forever for all this crap to sync and install... Jan 18 18:50:58 rofl Jan 18 18:52:12 this guy has NFS, xplane, lets golf, monopoly and asphalt5 Jan 18 18:52:18 this is gonna take forever... Jan 18 18:52:22 ouch Jan 18 18:52:55 time to go take a break I guess... bbiab Jan 18 18:53:06 only about 1GiB of downloading :-\ Jan 18 18:53:16 I wonder if Palm will ever let people set up wifi in first use Jan 18 18:53:23 probably more like 600MiB really Jan 18 18:53:46 that is definitely needed for those on non-US carriers Jan 18 18:54:20 Kyusaku nope. Jan 18 18:54:40 Palm head of security is --very-- strongly opinionated on the subject Jan 18 18:55:02 haha really? Jan 18 18:55:09 really Jan 18 18:55:25 I have no idea what the security implications are of that Jan 18 18:55:29 seriously Jan 18 18:55:31 At dinner with him he didn't exactly bang the table, but trust me on this, "no." Jan 18 18:55:44 so people just have to deal with data racking up a huge bill when the pre is downloading stuff out of their control Jan 18 18:55:50 well, I figure I turned on wifi as soon as I could and hopefully all of the rest of the stuff will use the WiFi to download it Jan 18 18:56:10 but unfortunately the first thing it started downloading was NFS (one of, if not the... biggest) Jan 18 18:57:04 and it go's even slower at the start because it also syncs all of your accounts, including his several hundred member facebook account with pictures Jan 18 18:57:21 lol wow Jan 18 18:57:35 well, as soon as you type in the palm profile password, you can immediately turn on wifi.... Jan 18 18:57:42 while it's doing all that. Jan 18 18:57:59 Rick_work: that I did not know... I turned it on after the reboot... Jan 18 18:58:07 after you put in all the passwords to the accounts Jan 18 18:58:37 as soon as you HAVE a profile, you can turn on wifi Jan 18 18:58:55 Rick_work: If I knew that before NFS would probably be done downloading by now Jan 18 18:59:56 the rest of the downloads should go over WiFi I would think though Jan 18 19:00:08 really? I think I've tried after a WebOS doctor and was unsucessful Jan 18 19:00:18 since I turned on WiFi during the NFS download Jan 18 19:00:32 Oh well I'm probably gonna doctor my device soon anyways and will give it a try again Jan 18 19:00:50 meta doctor :) Jan 18 19:01:03 egaudet_work: I haven't played with meta doctor yet Jan 18 19:01:09 so easy Jan 18 19:01:11 so lovely Jan 18 19:01:17 yeah, I need to try it out Jan 18 19:01:47 lemme reboot into linux and hop back in the chat, then you can point me int eh direction of meta-doctor Jan 18 19:01:49 bbiab Jan 18 19:04:37 egaudet_work, I am guessing there is a wiki page on meta doc right? Jan 18 19:04:57 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Jan 18 19:05:43 Does anyone know anything about the odd dbus stuff in Palm's own commands? I assume Palm is doing a search/replace thing (obfuscation)? Stuff like this: --dest='uk.org.thekelleys.dnsmasq' Jan 18 19:06:33 Forget it: That's the official dbus path of dnsmasq, LOL Jan 18 19:10:58 egaudet_work, can the meta doctor be used to apply patches to a WebOSDoctor file so that when a phone is doctored all the patches are already applied? Jan 18 19:11:57 cryptk: you can do whatever you want with modifying the doctor, but pre-installed packages/patches haven't been implemented in the existing code for it Jan 18 19:12:23 egaudet_work: You good with the .LICENSE files going away? Jan 18 19:12:24 open the Makefile and you'll see the existing available stuff like bypass activation, 2gb var etc.. Jan 18 19:12:35 dBsooner: I never wanted the .LICENSE in the first place :P Jan 18 19:12:45 10-4. Jan 18 19:12:47 but the license has to be stated somewhere Jan 18 19:12:56 I'll make it generic in the main folder Jan 18 19:13:04 the LICENSE file Jan 18 19:13:27 but since the .LICENSE files aren't being packaged up, they are of no use in the repo. Jan 18 19:14:25 egaudet_work, I saw all of that, I was just curious if I could apply other patches as long as I had the patch file Jan 18 19:17:12 morning all Jan 18 19:17:45 is there a way to modify the usb identifier for the media sync mode? Jan 18 19:22:40 ping dbsooner Jan 18 19:22:50 Any ideas how to get the method names out of com.palm.* dbus objects? Jan 18 19:30:20 jerms: pong Jan 18 19:38:38 dBsooner: can i get access to the gitorious repo Jan 18 19:39:22 jerms: To commit changes? Jan 18 19:39:26 ya Jan 18 19:39:51 It's really better if you submit through the Web portal. Jan 18 19:40:01 okay Jan 18 19:40:11 I don't mind giving you commit access, but I tend to miss those that are just committed tehre. Jan 18 19:40:22 Since just committing them to the repo does not build them. Jan 18 19:40:24 roger Jan 18 19:40:37 richard actually, but pretty close! Jan 18 19:40:42 lol Jan 18 19:41:07 (it's actually Tom, but it was worth it for the lulz) Jan 18 19:42:17 so, how's it going dBsooner ? Jan 18 19:42:32 jerms: You were referring to the modifications repo on gitorious,k right? Jan 18 19:42:47 Marajin: Pretty good. Trying to stay ahead of these darn developers. Jan 18 19:44:36 dBsooner: si` Jan 18 19:46:47 jerms: Then yeah, best way is to submit via the form so all my side is automated. :) Jan 18 19:46:55 will do. Jan 18 19:47:38 Hmm.. Adora is MIA and chuqui is chuqui_napping... Think about that. Jan 18 19:48:01 snork Jan 18 19:48:39 dBsooner: nail their feet to the floor, they move slower then Jan 18 19:51:12 wooot Jan 18 19:51:14 destinal: ping Jan 18 19:51:35 bpadalino: ping Jan 18 19:53:31 PuffTheMagic: hey Jan 18 19:53:49 i made a patch that fixes the keymodifiers for SDL/evas Jan 18 19:53:49 :D Jan 18 19:53:53 so now i get a proper shift Jan 18 19:53:54 :D Jan 18 19:53:55 PuffTheMagic: awesome Jan 18 19:54:06 PuffTheMagic: nice :D Jan 18 19:54:10 sdl dont have a keycode for % though Jan 18 19:54:21 we need to check scancode for it Jan 18 19:54:22 so i have to add a little hack for that too Jan 18 19:54:39 maybe we shoulduse that as the symbol picker Jan 18 19:55:25 PuffTheMagic: cool beans Jan 18 19:59:20 I was able to enumerate most of the undocumented dbus com.palm.* objects to get their method names but how do I figure out what a given method wants as input? Jan 18 19:59:51 For example, "palm://com.palm.firewall/ctrl" and "palm://com.palm.firewall/portCtrl" can both be called Jan 18 20:00:04 ...and I assume they want JSON input but I'm not sure what they take as variables Jan 18 20:00:20 bpadalino: take a short look at http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ there are now some pre related work items Jan 18 20:00:43 Templarian: ping Jan 18 20:00:44 bpadalino: or if you want to help me with modem related stuff, tell me Jan 18 20:01:27 dBsooner: pong Jan 18 20:01:35 destinal: how do I convert a string to uppercase Jan 18 20:02:33 PuffTheMagic: I think you iterate across all chars with toupper() Jan 18 20:03:03 I'm kinda surprised no one is running android on the pre yet Jan 18 20:03:33 Templarian: you get the database schema done? Jan 18 20:03:35 Marajin: but who wants to badly enough? Jan 18 20:03:54 dBsooner: everything except for that categroy thing I couldn't figure out Jan 18 20:04:05 ask chuq Jan 18 20:04:11 chuqui_napping: ping Jan 18 20:04:21 lol Jan 18 20:05:21 Well if Adora would actually come hang out with us, I would ask her. Jan 18 20:05:34 ping a napping person Jan 18 20:05:40 Marajin: how dare you Jan 18 20:05:41 you are eeeevil Jan 18 20:05:47 he's not napping Jan 18 20:05:57 dBsooner: if you guys had more chocolage, I'd hang out more Jan 18 20:06:10 I got plenty of chocolage. Jan 18 20:06:14 You just never ask. Jan 18 20:06:35 Adora: What is the difference between Games::Classic and Games!Classic Jan 18 20:06:36 ? Jan 18 20:06:38 Adora: by chance do you know what the difference is between Game!Arcade and Game::Classics is in the feed Jan 18 20:06:46 the :: and ! delimeters. Jan 18 20:07:00 no clue Jan 18 20:07:09 got an example? Jan 18 20:07:12 Adora: think you could find out? :) Jan 18 20:07:30 http://pastie.org/782631 Jan 18 20:08:11 in the documentation it shows: Games!Arcade Jan 18 20:08:18 (http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1844&Itemid=24) Jan 18 20:08:44 Templarian: did you actually search their XML for ! as the delimeter? Jan 18 20:08:58 Templarian: what are some example apps in the feed for each? Jan 18 20:08:59 Maybe the documentation is old and :: is the new way to split it Jan 18 20:09:22 * Templarian goes and checks Jan 18 20:09:42 Wouldn't be the firs time the docs were out of date Jan 18 20:10:24 * dBsooner snickers. Jan 18 20:10:36 *cough* developer relations *cough* Jan 18 20:10:40 You are right the docs are out of date. Jan 18 20:11:07 so they decided to use :: as the split to be more "transperant" Jan 18 20:11:14 similar to how CPAN/perl does it Jan 18 20:11:16 chuqui_napping: guit giving the docs people donuts they don's deserve them Jan 18 20:11:49 quit* Jan 18 20:12:30 btw: Templarian: Most of our stuff is done Jan 18 20:12:36 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=scripts/palm-scraper.py;h=fa58c2c59a56f6f5057fcbbf93ad23e6094149f1;hb=HEAD Jan 18 20:12:46 there is the python script to scrape the palm xml Jan 18 20:12:59 Templarian: did you do something for komodo recently? Jan 18 20:13:08 we just change the "print"s to make a formatted SQL uery and viola. Jan 18 20:13:16 MetaView: not in a very long time. Jan 18 20:13:34 My update servers down, not sure if that will cause anything. Jan 18 20:15:22 destinal-wirc1: did you see my wiki additions for the hidd stuff? I don't know if it was the hidd stuff or not but I can't get my screen back on from sleep after running that Jan 18 20:21:43 Adora: did you get my DM? Jan 18 20:21:53 oh.. sorry. dmsg. Jan 18 20:22:03 dBsooner: I did, it's in my mental queue for today Jan 18 20:22:08 lol Jan 18 20:22:21 oh lord.. dBsooner is in Adora's mental queue. Jan 18 20:32:32 woot, shift is WORKING in enterminus :D Jan 18 20:38:35 congrats PuffTheMagic !!! Jan 18 20:39:19 Would someone please go review the accessing Linux page on the wiki, that I just SUBSTANTIALLY re-wrote? Jan 18 20:39:56 linky? Jan 18 20:41:38 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux Jan 18 20:43:49 Rick-home: what about, instead of telling users to install novaterm for windows, just giving them the command for novacom to open a tty? Jan 18 20:44:11 egaudet: I thought hidd shared better Jan 18 20:44:38 CoolMatty because almost no one understands what to do with that once you have it, and you can't run an editor in it. Jan 18 20:44:48 Rick-home: also, you skipped a step. you didn't mention that you have to connect the pre to USB for novacom / novaterm Jan 18 20:45:13 I admit that the novaterm for windows we have right now sucks.... you can't cut and past to or from it, but it's still bettery than novacom tty Jan 18 20:45:24 ahhhh good poing Jan 18 20:46:44 Rick-home: : it doesn't cut and paste? Jan 18 20:47:16 yeah I guess that's true. my thinking was that I only use novacom/term in extreme circumstances where SSH doesn't work. Jan 18 20:48:25 CoolMatty: novacom is very cool Jan 18 20:48:31 but this is WITHOUT setting up cut and past. Jan 18 20:48:41 Just run novaterm. Done. you're in. Jan 18 20:48:59 novaterm for windows does not support cut and paste, no. Jan 18 20:49:33 we need cut and paste, how has nobody attacked that Jan 18 20:50:01 cause everyone uses ssh :p Jan 18 20:50:59 heh we need novaputty :) Jan 18 20:52:17 destinal! Jan 18 20:52:38 hey towz Jan 18 20:54:11 lawl Jan 18 20:54:29 Rick-home: we have source of windows novaterm, yes? Jan 18 20:54:42 destinal-wirc1 http://tkgeisel.com/stuff/novaterm-1.src.zip Jan 18 20:54:51 yes, we do. Jan 18 20:54:54 kthx Jan 18 20:54:58 welcome Jan 18 20:55:19 remember, it was a quick 40 minute hack he did one night. Jan 18 20:55:33 not criticizing Jan 18 20:55:45 geist rocks Jan 18 20:56:26 How does novaterm differ from novacom tty? Jan 18 20:56:46 terminalness Jan 18 20:56:48 egaudet it's a TERMINAL program. You can run vi and nano in it. Jan 18 20:57:01 I thought novaterm was just a mapping for the -t terminal option to novacom Jan 18 20:57:05 novacom -t open tty:// Jan 18 20:57:09 nope Jan 18 20:57:17 novaterm is an actual terminal program Jan 18 20:57:24 how does doing that in a command prompt differ from novaterm then Jan 18 20:57:31 advantages for instance Jan 18 20:57:37 term emulation I mean Jan 18 20:58:01 destinal-wirc1: what should be sent to the terminal when i press ctrl+ Jan 18 20:58:45 same with alt Jan 18 20:58:52 novaterm is an actual terminal program -- addressing, up down etc, you can run vi and nano in ot. Jan 18 20:59:57 puff: ascii 001 for control a Jan 18 21:00:05 002 for b Jan 18 21:00:07 etc Jan 18 21:00:43 ignore alt Jan 18 21:00:48 destinal-wirc1: what did you ever figure on that termplugin? Jan 18 21:00:50 it's a waste Jan 18 21:00:57 I should pull the git Jan 18 21:01:08 destinal Jan 18 21:01:10 termianl Jan 18 21:01:14 destimal Jan 18 21:01:22 jettero I think we figured that terminus makes more sense. Jan 18 21:01:32 :) wassat? Jan 18 21:01:40 jettero: bizarre regression from august or so Jan 18 21:01:56 sdl terminal app Puff's working on. Jan 18 21:02:01 ahh Jan 18 21:02:19 can you run sdl in a card? I'm behind the times I know, but I thought you had to shut down lunasysmgr for sdl Jan 18 21:02:19 sdl terminal sounds exciting :p Jan 18 21:02:24 hopefully I will fix terminal tonight Jan 18 21:02:33 * Towzzer rubs again destinal Jan 18 21:02:33 destinal-wirc1: so control+a could be (int char = 1) in C? Jan 18 21:02:35 jettero: as of 1.3.5 yes Jan 18 21:03:20 not going to kill it in favor of terminus Jan 18 21:03:32 it makes sense to have alternative Jan 18 21:03:33 s Jan 18 21:03:45 puff: yup Jan 18 21:03:54 destinal you are the best Jan 18 21:04:01 of people in this channel working on terminal Jan 18 21:04:16 lol Jan 18 21:04:25 destinal-wirc1: is there a table for that? Jan 18 21:04:30 or should i just subtract 80 Jan 18 21:05:59 puff: subtract is fine but only a to z and only case insensitive of course Jan 18 21:06:45 i mean subtract 96 Jan 18 21:07:00 ah from sdl code Jan 18 21:07:14 ? Jan 18 21:07:34 or ascii maybe are same Jan 18 21:07:53 I'm on a pre, can't easily test again Jan 18 21:07:58 ascii is the only thing anyone should use Jan 18 21:09:50 Puff: if control pressed, subtract into unsigned int and discard above 26? Jan 18 21:10:39 thus 1 for a 26 for z Jan 18 21:12:51 egaudet_work: Would just putting the LICENSE file in the root of each branch suffice? Jan 18 21:13:07 i dunno? Jan 18 21:14:18 morning Jan 18 21:14:27 dBsooner: yes Jan 18 21:14:27 rwhitby: You thoughts? Jan 18 21:14:32 awesome Jan 18 21:14:40 I am pm'ing you a reply to your email. Jan 18 21:14:52 destinal-wirc1: ok ctrl sequences are handled :D Jan 18 21:15:09 if (st[0] > 0x60 && st[0] < 0x7B) Jan 18 21:15:09 st[0] = st[0]-0x60; Jan 18 21:15:15 st[0] = st[0]-0x60; Jan 18 21:15:16 destinal what do we do about tab in terminal Jan 18 21:16:58 destinal-wirc1: i sent my evas/sdl patch to the enlightenment ml Jan 18 21:31:53 PuffTheMagic: sorry, I've been a little occupied over hte past few days Jan 18 21:32:30 PuffTheMagic: efl libs aren't in nonworking...they're in packages Jan 18 21:32:52 xcomp: you pushed them to cross-compile? Jan 18 21:33:12 yes - evas, ecore, edje, elementary Jan 18 21:33:16 xcomp: i've got a patch for ecore that you need to have applied Jan 18 21:33:21 so that key modifiers work Jan 18 21:33:33 PuffTheMagic: excellent, send it Jan 18 21:33:56 xcomp: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/166914/ Jan 18 21:34:01 i'll see if I can make it cross-platform compatible so I can merge into svn Jan 18 21:34:21 xcomp it might not be "complete" Jan 18 21:34:23 but it does work Jan 18 21:34:43 xcomp: i posted it to the dev ML also Jan 18 21:35:29 PuffTheMagic: good stuff...I'll see about checking it out and committing it tonight Jan 18 21:35:39 cool Jan 18 21:36:10 i should be pretty crossplatform Jan 18 21:36:14 the way it is Jan 18 21:36:19 nothing pre specific in that patch Jan 18 21:36:25 yeah don't see anything wrong there Jan 18 21:37:10 xcomp: efl libs failed to compile on base ubuntu 9.10 server configuration, and were stopping the build for people, so they moved back to nonworking Jan 18 21:37:16 xcomp: looks like a libtool issue Jan 18 21:37:31 rwhitby: the tags thing? Jan 18 21:37:39 so it wasn't specific to my distro after all Jan 18 21:37:53 xcomp: yeah, seems to happen to everyone Jan 18 21:38:13 rwhitby: i could 'fix' it by adding a cp `which libtool` . to the makefile Jan 18 21:38:30 xcomp: in a scratchbox shell? Jan 18 21:38:43 but I didn't want to do that because it belies a problem within the sb2 setup Jan 18 21:38:52 yes, inside sb2 Jan 18 21:40:21 PuffTheMagic: cool Jan 18 21:42:02 hi, does anybody in here own a netbook with a windows xp home ulcpc license? Jan 18 21:43:00 rwhitby: was curl breaking for the same rason? Jan 18 21:44:06 * chrisa yawns Jan 18 21:44:19 xcomp: curl has some weird error about run-time libraries not being the same as link-time libraries Jan 18 21:44:38 hmmm, that is a problem Jan 18 21:44:58 xcomp: I'd be ok with a sb2 copy libtool in the Makefile so we can get these libs staged and shipped for PuffTheMagic Jan 18 21:45:16 your commit msg said there was nothing to stage in rootfs for curl Jan 18 21:45:23 but rootfs has a libcurl.so.4 Jan 18 21:45:32 xcomp: oh, that was just removing the stage-rootfs.mk include Jan 18 21:45:58 hmm. maybe I merged two commits with the same message or something Jan 18 21:46:22 oh...yeah, stage copies the lib manually anyway Jan 18 21:46:43 RWhitby, when you've got a few, I'd like to talk about the Pixi PuTTy access issue Jan 18 21:46:58 which makes me wonder about that error ... if we are linking against libcurl from rootfs then we should never have a runtime error Jan 18 21:47:19 HParsons: what was the word before 'puppy' that the forum censored? Jan 18 21:48:17 Wow... Took a me a minute to figure that out... It didn't really censor it, I did (I knew it would). Slut-puppy Jan 18 21:48:20 xcomp: for curl, the problem was in the configure script. if we can extract the headers we need without building anything we could just do that Jan 18 21:48:29 HParsons: that was funny stuff Jan 18 21:48:40 You DO know that was said as a joke, right/ Jan 18 21:48:44 yep Jan 18 21:49:02 OK.... Had me concerned a bit... Language barriers and all :) Jan 18 21:49:25 HParsons: on pixi, wan interface is named differently, rmnet0 or something. Jan 18 21:49:39 HParsons: use ifconfig to find the right name, and then put that in the upstart script Jan 18 21:49:50 rwhitby: configure is needed to generate curl-config and libcurl.pc Jan 18 21:49:58 xcomp: bummer Jan 18 21:50:10 xcomp: maybe we can patch that test out of configure Jan 18 21:50:45 OK, no way my wife is going to let me play with it during the day (she uses it too much) But I'll go in this evening and track that down in the script. Would you want that current script modified, so the Pixi WAN is an option? Jan 18 21:51:02 yeah...can you show me a log or something so I can try to modify the configure script? Jan 18 21:51:58 HParsons: we'd just update the instructions in the shipped upstart script to say what you need to change for Pixi Jan 18 21:52:14 xcomp: got a min Jan 18 21:52:16 ?' Jan 18 21:52:24 PuffTheMagic: yeah Jan 18 21:52:44 xcomp: normal term width is 80 col Jan 18 21:53:01 but that is way too much to fit in 320 pixels Jan 18 21:53:05 at 9pt font Jan 18 21:53:26 so when i reduce the cols Jan 18 21:53:33 to say 63 Jan 18 21:53:38 which fits the screen Jan 18 21:54:00 * rwhitby bbl Jan 18 21:54:01 it wraps as you would expect Jan 18 21:54:17 but then i get this extra "return" Jan 18 21:54:26 at the end of 80 lines Jan 18 21:54:28 ? Jan 18 21:54:32 er 80 cols Jan 18 21:55:08 Puff: term width is arbitrary and negotiated but you need to tell system Jan 18 21:55:23 destinal-wirc1: ? Jan 18 21:55:34 check out termnal for instance Jan 18 21:56:25 hey does anyone offhand know the working directory for apps when they're run from the launcher? Jan 18 21:56:30 particularly for type:game apps? :) Jan 18 21:56:50 it changes tty settins dynamicallt Jan 18 21:57:20 destinal-wirc1: linky? Jan 18 21:57:27 yay new vba version Jan 18 21:57:42 termplugin.git Jan 18 21:57:52 yeah there are 100 files Jan 18 21:57:54 sorry in pre Jan 18 21:58:26 dtzWill: btw, great work on vba. Looks like you've finally succeeded in making something i'm addicted to on the pre Jan 18 21:58:40 "Note Due to the pre's keyboard limitations, some keys cannot be detected when pressed down at same time" is there some sort of list of these conflicting keys? Jan 18 22:00:00 xcomp: woooo :D. hey xcomp if you check the latest version (1.0.5) when you get a chance--does settings configs work for you? it worked just fine in testing, for myself and another--but for whatever reason the preware version crashes on me when setting them. maybe a permissions issue? Jan 18 22:00:34 CoolMatty: can _you_ set configs using preware? it should work but i've had it crash once, not sure why (doesn't happen when run by hand from terminal) Jan 18 22:00:44 dtzWill: it just crashed on me Jan 18 22:00:45 CoolMatty: no list, just experience, trial+error. someone else might be able to help Jan 18 22:00:48 CoolMatty: okay sorry Jan 18 22:00:58 it crashed as I was finishing actually Jan 18 22:01:14 also can I make a request for additional keys to keybind? Jan 18 22:01:19 hi Jan 18 22:01:20 can we have diagonal keybindings? Jan 18 22:01:30 like up+right, right+down, etc Jan 18 22:01:34 add it tot the wiki if you would Jan 18 22:01:48 I'm curious in testing if that results in much easier diagonal input when "thumbing it" Jan 18 22:01:51 CoolMatty: that's a good idea, just not something i can do immediately. fixing crashes is higher :) Jan 18 22:01:52 hi Jan 18 22:01:56 CoolMatty: yep that sounds good Jan 18 22:01:58 obviously :p Jan 18 22:02:00 i,m on webirc Jan 18 22:02:01 destinal-wirc1: idk what im looking for Jan 18 22:02:10 I'll see if I can figure out what causes that crash Jan 18 22:02:13 . Jan 18 22:02:13 . Jan 18 22:02:13 . Jan 18 22:02:13 . Jan 18 22:02:13 . Jan 18 22:02:14 . Jan 18 22:02:45 any way to add feeds to preware? Jan 18 22:03:02 custom feeds Jan 18 22:03:17 no? Jan 18 22:03:20 did u look in the menu? Jan 18 22:03:22 okay yeah, dtzWill, it crashes after "Press key for R" Jan 18 22:03:26 hi2u: please do not spam Jan 18 22:03:27 argh...I think I may have to doctor my pre to get rid of too many card errors Jan 18 22:03:56 CoolMatty: okay thanks for confirming. looking into now. Jan 18 22:03:59 i was hoping it would never come to this Jan 18 22:04:03 sry trying to get past blue text Jan 18 22:04:21 CoolMatty: i even tested the ipkg that preware builds ... no idea what went wrong :( Jan 18 22:04:34 well i do have an idea, but just making excuses :P Jan 18 22:04:42 in pref I only see way to enable/disable them Jan 18 22:04:46 not add new ones Jan 18 22:04:50 dtzWill: permissions issue maybe? Jan 18 22:05:04 where are you saving the key configurations? Jan 18 22:05:51 CoolMatty: definitely permissions issue Jan 18 22:06:22 CoolMatty: writing it to working directory of app, which i figured was set? and we could write to? shrug i'm fixing now to write to /media/internal/vba/ and that fixes it Jan 18 22:07:34 ok Jan 18 22:07:36 puff: I seem to recall it's an ioctl or stty call? Jan 18 22:07:50 to set rows and cols Jan 18 22:07:58 dtzWill: yeah, I think there's a launch option in vba to tell it where to look for .cfg as well, if that'd make your life easier :p Jan 18 22:08:13 destinal-wirc1: shouldn't it be something available through libtermcap or so? Jan 18 22:08:18 I have no full size computer here, only pre Jan 18 22:08:30 any chance preware goes into app catalog? Jan 18 22:08:44 xxxxx preware LIGHT not full blown preware. Jan 18 22:09:47 preware light being what, just a feed browser? :p Jan 18 22:10:00 Rick_work: what would be the point? Jan 18 22:10:26 able to install palm feeds and browse all feeds with links to the install instructions for full preware, thus acting as advertising for full preware for the masses. Jan 18 22:10:32 besides a tech demo of something that doesn't work? Jan 18 22:11:23 rick_work: with a plugin and pdk we might be able to call private bus services to install Jan 18 22:11:56 that may be more palatable than new services Jan 18 22:12:08 not sure if it would be allowed tho Jan 18 22:12:11 palm should simply allow you guys special access to private apis for installing via preware :p Jan 18 22:12:22 destinal-wirc1 Brian was quite clear that he wants a "hoop" that people will have to jump through. Jan 18 22:14:56 destinal-wirc1: are you going to be around for the next couple of hours? I'm after a security review of a new idea I have for on-device save and restore functionality. Jan 18 22:16:15 CoolMatty: pushing 1.0.6 with fix presently. Jan 18 22:16:30 CoolMatty: i should be less impatient and post to testing feed first or something :) Jan 18 22:16:36 oh my....pre froze while updating vba Jan 18 22:16:38 * rwhitby is glad that dtzWill is now our build and release expert ;-) Jan 18 22:16:52 that's worrisome... Jan 18 22:17:06 lawl Jan 18 22:17:11 okay I'll test it out :p Jan 18 22:17:12 rwhitby: off and on Jan 18 22:17:13 xcomp: not to dodge out but really don't see how installing an ipkg without and postinst scripts etc wuold do that :( Jan 18 22:17:35 rwhitby: hahaha sorry to abuse the git/build server with all the updates Jan 18 22:17:45 infobot should say a message when an app appears on preware Jan 18 22:17:50 dtzWill: yeah I don't either, unless my cpu froze for some reason ... I don't think i have it overclocked Jan 18 22:17:56 dtzWill: the autobuilder loves to do stuff. Jan 18 22:18:00 rick: what if the hoop is one we create? Jan 18 22:18:03 it's its job Jan 18 22:18:09 rwhitby: it's like a stress test, right? :D Jan 18 22:18:29 rwhitby: haha. well in that case i'm glad to give it things to do. just being thoughtful here :). poor autobuilder Jan 18 22:18:41 in preparation for the day when apple finally alienates all of its developers and they jump ship to pre! >.> Jan 18 22:18:47 dtzWill: it gets lonely when it does't have anything to build Jan 18 22:19:01 * dBsooner thinks Adora stopped thinking about him. Jan 18 22:19:27 rwhitby: what was the test in libcurl that needed to be disabled? ecore uses it so i need to fix before moving ecore back into packages Jan 18 22:19:31 * CoolMatty "f5"'s the feed for vba 1.0.6 :p Jan 18 22:19:37 xcomp: dunno Jan 18 22:19:51 rwhitby: so i thought about having it actually BUILD vba, but things like it having the wrong toolchain, etc, make that difficult. is that something you think is worth fixing/looking into, or just keep shipping binaries? Jan 18 22:19:56 xcomp: you can't reproduce the error? Jan 18 22:20:18 dtzWill: the plan is to use the cross-compile.git to build on the autobuilder. Jan 18 22:20:31 dtzWill: so please make sure it can build in there. Jan 18 22:20:33 rwhitby: i don't know where the error came up ... if I did I would try to reproduce it Jan 18 22:20:44 dtzWill: but deploying that is a little way off Jan 18 22:20:52 dtz: wrong toolchain? Jan 18 22:21:20 rwhitby: okay i'll look. but i'm taking advantage of things like using the 2009q3 toolchain. not sure it's worth it to build an extra sb2 env (like i have locally heh) just for vba Jan 18 22:21:24 if the new one is better why not move everything autobuilder to it? Jan 18 22:21:52 destinal-wirc1: yep. 2009q3 (well i think as of 2009q1 but whatever) has better support for neon and floating point instructions--and in general makes emulation ~5-10% faster. Jan 18 22:21:56 I've never had anything break on pre with newer one Jan 18 22:22:06 updating to 1.0.6 Jan 18 22:22:23 destinal-wirc1: and one branch of my code (not released but still) causes the 2007q3 and 2008q1 to eat up > 4GB of memory and give up when running optimizations, which is a deal breaker Jan 18 22:22:39 destinal-wirc1: which is why i tried 2009q3 at all, in an attempt to get a better compiler hehe Jan 18 22:22:47 dtzWill: what about glibc compatibility? Jan 18 22:22:57 I presume 2009q3 doesn't use glibc 2.5 Jan 18 22:23:30 rwhitby: that was an issue before, but doesn't seem to be with vba. (quake for example didn't run with the new toolchain) Jan 18 22:24:01 dtzWill: confirmed key configuration is now working from preware Jan 18 22:24:07 dtzWill: that's my current reason why we can't wholesale shift to a newer toolchain Jan 18 22:24:14 Anyone wanna see why my patch wont work? it gives a hunk error. http://pastebin.com/m570594d2 Jan 18 22:24:15 * rwhitby bbl Jan 18 22:24:29 rwhitby: right. honestly i don't know enough about glibc to tell you why it works. Jan 18 22:24:45 CoolMatty: wonderful! you tested it before i even knew it was out yet :D Jan 18 22:24:48 CoolMatty: ty Jan 18 22:25:33 I do try :p Jan 18 22:25:47 you can always PM me or something, if you need something tested pronto :p Jan 18 22:27:07 Abyssul: need more info Jan 18 22:27:45 Its a patch I made that edits the messaging controller that gives SMS notifications a 2 second vibrate Jan 18 22:28:16 not that kind of info Jan 18 22:28:38 how did you create the patch, what did you diff it against, where have you tried to apply it, etc... Jan 18 22:28:55 sorry lol Jan 18 22:28:58 In all likelihood it's a dos byte Jan 18 22:29:18 Unified Patch Creator by jason Jan 18 22:29:34 I had two original files from the doctor and edited one Jan 18 22:29:39 then created the diff file Jan 18 22:30:04 Ive converted it to Unix EOL too Jan 18 22:32:19 destinal-wirc1: so, here's my idea for on-device save and restore Jan 18 22:32:20 hey dtzWill: is it possible to move the red text messages off the game screen to the black area? Jan 18 22:33:02 1) there's a service, which can run pre-installed scripts (the scripts come with the service) Jan 18 22:33:37 CoolMatty: well it's possible, but not easily so from current structure. if that's not on the wiki add it :). Jan 18 22:33:46 This is annoying... Jan 18 22:33:49 CoolMatty: btw i really really do use that wiki todo for figuring out what to do next Jan 18 22:34:04 CoolMatty: thanks for testing, and i'll involve you in testing in the future Jan 18 22:34:09 2) the scripts know how to save and restore data on a per-application basis, to and from /media/internal/saverestore///... Jan 18 22:34:23 hmm i wonder why ssh isn't working over bluetooth Jan 18 22:34:32 Quick Install is suppose make up the differences in lines right? Im trying to apply this patch to a modified file and it wont apply. Jan 18 22:34:41 dtzWill: okay I've been putting what I say to you on the wiki too :p Jan 18 22:34:44 the modified file is only changed by preware Jan 18 22:34:50 I just run it past you first to see if it's worth it lol Jan 18 22:34:56 Abyssul: quick install isn't doing anything, it's GNU patch binary Jan 18 22:34:58 3) there is a front-end app which calls the service to save and restore data for a single application, or for all known applications (the scripts are named by the appId) Jan 18 22:35:02 and if there is conflict it can't make up for it Jan 18 22:35:20 egaudet_work: I dont understand where the conflict is... Jan 18 22:35:22 CoolMatty: appreciated. I'm glad the todo hasn't filled up with horrible ideas and poorly though out requests. Jan 18 22:35:23 it can offset the lines if that's the only "confclit" but if the context isn't what the patch says then it can't know what to do Jan 18 22:35:44 CoolMatty: not that you would, isn't what i meant, just that in general i was worried making my official todo publicly editable wouldn't be the best :) Jan 18 22:35:48 the 3 lines before and after the + added lines are where the conflict could reside Jan 18 22:35:57 verify it applies on a stock files Jan 18 22:36:03 hmm Jan 18 22:36:09 4) the service can only run existing scripts (which are already securely installed from a trusted source) to initiate a save or restore operation Jan 18 22:36:36 5) the scripts are stored in an area only writeable by postinst scripts Jan 18 22:36:50 destinal-wirc1: see any holes in that? Jan 18 22:36:59 I've had an intruiging idea with the control scheme as well. I've rebound the movement keys to KLO, (K = left, L = right, O = up, , = down). Seems odd, but I think it actually feels better, with the placement of the thumb and how the thumb is shaped. Jan 18 22:37:17 (and put a/b on a, s respectively, but that's irrelevant) Jan 18 22:37:25 (anyone else is welcome to comment on the security implications of this idea as well) Jan 18 22:37:39 rwhitby: when does this service run backup/save scripts Jan 18 22:37:45 front-end gui manual intiation only? Jan 18 22:38:17 egaudet_work: either front end manual, or front-end timer with headless operation, or by command line in linux (e.g. cron, etc) Jan 18 22:38:37 are these save/restore scripts installed by the app package's postinst? Jan 18 22:38:38 egaudet_work: I got it to work on stock. Jan 18 22:38:38 CoolMatty: please include my name on those things else i miss them :P :). frequently not looking at irc Jan 18 22:38:48 sorry :p Jan 18 22:38:51 EdLin: the service keeps N generations of backup, truncating over N Jan 18 22:38:53 CoolMatty: interesting. i'll give tht a go... with awesome new custom config generator :P Jan 18 22:39:04 egaudet_work: scripts are installed by the service postinst Jan 18 22:39:17 egaudet_work: to allow for multiple different front-ends using the same service Jan 18 22:39:23 rwhitby: hi Jan 18 22:39:38 rwhitby: so any new package that wants a backup/restore script needs a reinstall of this service? Jan 18 22:40:01 egaudet_work: either that, or the new package itself is signed with a posting Jan 18 22:40:04 postinst Jan 18 22:40:18 egaudet_work: Is it safe to upload the patch to Preware if it works on stock files? Jan 18 22:40:22 allowing any package to install a script would break the security model Jan 18 22:40:42 rwhitby: is this to cover cases where packages have unknown data in various unforeseen locations? Jan 18 22:40:49 Abyssul: yes Jan 18 22:40:52 Awesome Jan 18 22:41:12 egaudet_work: yes, e.g. my first script is going to save Need For Speed game save data, cause I had to doctor my main Pre last night Jan 18 22:41:18 inter-patch compatibility is a nice feature, not a requirement, and not always feasible Jan 18 22:41:54 egaudet_work: the scripts can use the full capabilities of Linux (e.g. sqlite3 etc) to save and restore Jan 18 22:42:29 egaudet_work: there will of course be common functions which scripts can call for common cases Jan 18 22:42:30 rwhitby: I'm trying to think of the harm of backing up the $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT/usr/palm/applications/ directories rather than using app specific scripts. Jan 18 22:43:44 egaudet_work: that could be considered by some to be circumventing the line where normal USB drive access cannot see commercial package files Jan 18 22:44:07 (since the save must be to a place where you can access via USB drive to be useful) Jan 18 22:46:10 can anyone shoot down the security model? Jan 18 22:47:24 Depends how the service knows which scripts it can/should run Jan 18 22:47:55 if it's strictly embedded into the service, vs. if even a secured indepednent postinst from another package can "install" a known script Jan 18 22:52:24 egaudet_work: the service will run any script in the specific saverestoremgr scripts directory, which can be accessed by any postinst Jan 18 22:52:49 of course type:game breaks this at the moment, but it breaks everything and will be fixed by Palm. Jan 18 22:53:18 egaudet: we could also sign a list of scripts, but then power users wouldn't be able to test their own new scripts and submit them Jan 18 22:57:02 dtzWill: you are able to bind keys to @, which obviously conflicts with Turbo Jan 18 22:58:23 has Palm given anyone in the internals group early access to the official PDK? Just curious. Jan 18 22:58:53 btw - scummvm running on device now - beginning Ogre3D tinkering Jan 18 22:58:56 yay Jan 18 22:59:12 (yeah, slow going) Jan 18 22:59:53 CoolMatty: interesting. i thought it would use their binding instead of turbo; it definitely does not, you're right Jan 18 23:00:18 CoolMatty: !! I need your parser of that XML. :) Jan 18 23:00:36 CoolMatty: Oh, please? :) Jan 18 23:06:16 oh? Jan 18 23:06:23 I'm not done with it yet Jan 18 23:06:29 if you really need it I can probably finish it out tomorrow Jan 18 23:06:42 unless you just wanted that magpie php library, which you can google :p Jan 18 23:07:16 well XML parsing is built into PHP.. there are a lot of php standard functions to handle the parsing without a library. Jan 18 23:07:25 I just figued you had something concrete to help get me started. Jan 18 23:07:30 yes, but as I said yesterday, most are pretty terrible Jan 18 23:07:37 (they don't support namespaces properly) Jan 18 23:07:41 geist: ping Jan 18 23:08:22 I just hate devoting two people to the same task. Jan 18 23:08:34 When, in escence, it's already been done by PC.net. Jan 18 23:08:43 yea Jan 18 23:08:48 * dBsooner thinks he might beg Dieter for their parser. :) Jan 18 23:08:51 dBsooner: where's the webos patches website located? or is it not live yet? Jan 18 23:09:04 it's in the subject of the channel, zsoc. Jan 18 23:09:11 dBsooner: I just noticed that, and now feel silly Jan 18 23:09:16 :) Jan 18 23:09:28 pancakes all around Jan 18 23:09:33 lol Jan 18 23:09:43 xcomp: how is e* stuff going? Jan 18 23:10:04 xcomp got the go ahead to commit :D Jan 18 23:10:10 zsocisasillyface: elementary widget toolkit is in there now Jan 18 23:10:29 right now trying to resolve reports of some runtime issue with libcurl.so Jan 18 23:10:38 exsssscelent :> Jan 18 23:11:22 Im curious Jan 18 23:11:47 what is the process Jan 18 23:12:00 behind a port of an app to webos? Jan 18 23:12:11 like a linux app for ex Jan 18 23:12:24 dtzWill: i see you've been busy. i also find the new icon amusing, considering the current library support ;) Jan 18 23:12:38 glorifiedg: That depends. I should make a flow chart. Jan 18 23:12:58 Templarian: ping Jan 18 23:12:59 Does your program already use SDL for display purposes? --> yes --> no Jan 18 23:13:06 lol im just curious. Jan 18 23:13:10 well the icon was always a gba. but this one looks less crappy, and black amkes it a big pre-like. shrug, someone on forum posted it, figured i'd ship it :) Jan 18 23:13:11 glorifiedg: what zsoc said Jan 18 23:13:24 hmm imagine it have sdl Jan 18 23:13:31 dtzWill: Oh I'm not disagreeing, it's definitely more slick :> Jan 18 23:13:40 take dtzWill vba port exemple Jan 18 23:13:53 glorifiedg: imagine isn't a great assurance ;) trying grepping for SDL_INIT or similar Jan 18 23:14:28 zdoc: I dont have the skills to try any port. I'm just curious how its made Jan 18 23:14:41 glorifiedg: assuming it uses SDL, it's just a matter of cleaning up compatibility.... if it uses something other than SWSURFACE or OPENGL (like HWSURFACE and/or DOUBLEBUF), you may have to alter it to use OPENGLES Jan 18 23:15:01 hmm Jan 18 23:15:05 and if it already uses a non-es compliant opengl, you'll have to use a wrapper or hand convert the display lists to arrays Jan 18 23:15:39 eheh, forget that. I tought I would understand but its like chinese Jan 18 23:15:39 lol Jan 18 23:15:40 well and hopefully some modifications to make it work better on a mobile device, particularly the pre :D Jan 18 23:15:41 and many minimal resolution issues Jan 18 23:15:45 rwhitby: it looks ok but I wonder about the approach Jan 18 23:15:46 thanks anyway Jan 18 23:15:47 lol Jan 18 23:16:26 8-) Jan 18 23:16:55 dtzWill: well, that's after making sure it's even feasable to work at all to begin with... without a major restructure :) Jan 18 23:17:23 hah yeah :) Jan 18 23:17:44 dtzWill: so... 1.) have you looked any further into optimizing alpha blending, and 2.) do we have any other leads/suggestions on a working/reliable ARM profiler? Jan 18 23:17:51 dtzWill: btw ... I was trying to run wario ware the other time and the accelerometer didn't seem to wokr Jan 18 23:17:54 *work Jan 18 23:18:03 I'm guessing vba doesn't support that yet? Jan 18 23:18:11 xcomp: i have done nothing to support the accel, sorry. Jan 18 23:18:23 xcomp: i think it might? but if it does it's not tied to the pre's one. Jan 18 23:18:31 xcomp: those types of functionality would rely on rom-specific hacks Jan 18 23:18:41 xcomp: i'll throw that on the backlog; but probably not super high priority Jan 18 23:18:42 Well hurry up with accel....lol just playing....i am play mortal kombat right now on VBA Jan 18 23:18:51 xcomp: like wario ware twisted, kirby's tilt and tumble, rumble on the pinball games, etc Jan 18 23:19:00 dtzWill: yeah, was just curious Jan 18 23:19:02 JMyaDaGod: mortal kombat uses the accelerometer?? Jan 18 23:19:04 destinal-wirc1: ideas on alternate approaches? Jan 18 23:19:21 na i was just stating that i was using ur app now Jan 18 23:19:43 JMyaDaGod: sorry, misread. haha glad you're enjoying it Jan 18 23:20:00 rwhitby: so what's the problem we're trying to solve with it Jan 18 23:20:05 dtzWill, I posted this on precentral but nobody replyed. I tought when I donated to webos-internals the money would reach every major contributer. I was wrong? Jan 18 23:20:32 I didn't understand save, restore Jan 18 23:20:38 destinal-wirc1: i beleve terminus is already making the proper call to set the size Jan 18 23:20:47 destinal-wirc1: the itch I'm scratching is that I had to doctor my main pre last night, and I lost my progress on need for speed. Jan 18 23:21:06 puff run stty from cmdline Jan 18 23:21:10 stty Jan 18 23:21:16 rwhitby: please scratch ... I'm waiting for whatever you come up with before I doctor mine Jan 18 23:21:31 glorifiedg: http://twitter.com/webosinternals/statuses/7158963069 <-- I believe that answers the quesion? Jan 18 23:21:33 see what it reports Jan 18 23:22:04 rwhitby: ah I understand now Jan 18 23:22:11 hmm. ok then. thanks zsoc Jan 18 23:22:13 glorifiedg: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals:Site_support <-- that's probably the more official stance Jan 18 23:22:17 glorifiedg: the donations to webos-internals are used according to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals:Site_support Jan 18 23:22:29 rwhitby: lol, sorry, i got it right the second time ;) Jan 18 23:22:50 destinal-wirc1: ok i did that Jan 18 23:23:00 glorifiedg: individual developers may or may not request different donation addresses - that's up to them Jan 18 23:23:08 what rows, cols Jan 18 23:23:13 I suppose the idea is it's not a tip cup, but a method of furthering open source interest and supplying the tools needed for developers (like the current toolchain most in here are using) Jan 18 23:23:30 destinal-wirc1: i dont get that info Jan 18 23:23:40 i dont get that on my gentoo box either Jan 18 23:23:44 rwhitby: you play need for speed? :3 Jan 18 23:23:48 stty -a then sry Jan 18 23:23:57 zsoc: the idea is that the developers already contribute their time, so any out of pocket expenses (e.g. server hardware or hosting fees) should be paid for by the users of those services Jan 18 23:24:01 my question was, I've been donating only to webos internals but then I saw the posts on precentral from dtzWill and dbsooner (i think) with personal donation links. That question poped :) Jan 18 23:24:12 dtzWill : you changed the color of the icon thank you i hated that purple LOL Jan 18 23:24:28 rwhitby: Ah, much more articulate ;) Jan 18 23:24:40 one is donate to team infra Jan 18 23:24:49 the other is to devs Jan 18 23:24:52 JMyaDaGod: haha. i just found a CC gba icon and shipped originally. this new one is from a forum dev Jan 18 23:24:55 I request ALL the moneies! Jan 18 23:24:56 destinal-wirc1: s/team/community/ Jan 18 23:25:01 rwhitby = RICH. Jan 18 23:25:05 dBsooner = POOR Jan 18 23:25:06 lol Jan 18 23:25:08 ah ok true Jan 18 23:25:40 glorifiedg: also, if the hardware/backbone behind webos-internals didn't exist, we probably wouldn't be here today :) (or at least not nearly as efficient and organized) Jan 18 23:25:42 since it's all avail to community that is more correct Jan 18 23:25:44 JMyaDaGod: the new icon looks sharper too, i kinda scaled mine terribly :) Jan 18 23:25:58 in a way you donate to yourself Jan 18 23:26:03 hmm I have to distribute the money equaly now. eheh Jan 18 23:26:04 destinal-wirc1: it's based on a model that I found worked well in nslu2-linux.org - donations to the project are never divvied up between developers, but spent on hardware and expenses for the whole community. it saves a lot of arguing about who gets what percentage. Jan 18 23:26:55 dtzWill: so I have an idea about your gprof issue Jan 18 23:27:01 thats what I tough rwhitby. It makes sense. Jan 18 23:27:21 zsoc: shoot Jan 18 23:27:45 so you can put your resources towards making community more enabled Jan 18 23:27:48 btw i got a working llvm cross compiler \o/. but it can't build vba, some obscure error in the assembler for one of the files :( Jan 18 23:27:59 :/ Jan 18 23:28:13 you can also donate to individual devs whose work you want to encourage Jan 18 23:28:15 not that it necc would be better, but it's another tool to be used Jan 18 23:28:19 buy pizza beer etc Jan 18 23:29:01 destinal-wirc1: indeed - each individual dev can encourage personal donations for whatever use they desire. I would hope that they disclose the intended use up-front, but that's up to them. Jan 18 23:29:49 for example, I ran a personal donation drive on a separate paypal address to raise funds to import a Pre from each of the US and Germany for development work. Jan 18 23:30:05 destinal-wirc1: red bull ;) Jan 18 23:30:10 when I'm done getting my dev site back up i'll have my own donation link up there Jan 18 23:30:21 dtzWill: Ok, my idea made sense in my head but now not so much. I can't help but think it has something to do with the version of libc our toolchain is using. But I think it's been confirmed it's identical to the stack on webos Jan 18 23:30:28 but they should (and do, as far as I know) not associate that donation link with the project, since it's a personal donation. Jan 18 23:31:55 destinal-wirc1: so no security holes in my save and restore service that you can see? Jan 18 23:31:57 dtzWill: Did you try to strace the segfaulting binary? Because (in theory) we could compile each module _except_ the one causing the segv with -pg, and see if that'll do the trick for now. Jan 18 23:32:25 zsoc: no i didn't work super hard at it. but that could work Jan 18 23:32:37 no but I am at dentist so I'll look again later when not in pain :) Jan 18 23:32:41 zsoc: the toolchain we're using should be just fine; the one i *was* using less so, but i think profiling one would work well enough for the other Jan 18 23:32:43 zsoc: yeah, I bought NFS and X-Plane and sometimes get 10 minutes here and there to play them. Jan 18 23:33:11 dtzWill: you kept downplaying profiling after you decided to go for it, but I believe it was a good and necessary idea from the start :) Jan 18 23:33:32 rwhitby: x-plane i get. but you playing NFS makes me giggle for some reason Jan 18 23:34:01 * rwhitby thinks zsoc might have some skewed perception of me .... Jan 18 23:34:34 so, having to doctor your main phone sucks a little, but no too bad that it can't be fixed Jan 18 23:34:37 so smart people can't race cars? Jan 18 23:34:56 what you say here Jan 18 23:34:57 destinal-wirc1: you have to admit, NFS is geared towards a younger generation, in general (cars, music, girls, etc) Jan 18 23:35:11 zsoc: oh, I turn off the music and skip the vids Jan 18 23:35:27 rwhitby: lol, well now i'm half ok with it ;) Jan 18 23:35:33 (back gesture skips the vids) Jan 18 23:35:36 want mario cart pre :) Jan 18 23:35:51 destinal-wirc1: yeah, I play mario kart wii with my kids Jan 18 23:36:12 Mario Kart WII is very, _very_, fun. I play it with my friends mom all the time. Jan 18 23:36:20 Ron, I'm back with a Pixi to toy with. Jan 18 23:36:42 s/Ron/Rod/ ? Jan 18 23:36:53 Rod, sorry. Typing too fast Jan 18 23:37:18 HParsons: got a command line on it? Jan 18 23:37:26 What am I looking for in the ifconfig Jan 18 23:37:36 Yes, have a term open through novaterm Jan 18 23:38:11 Puff: did stty -a shed some light on the column issue? Jan 18 23:39:03 Rod, duh, it's right in front of them. The iterface name is rmnet0 on the Pixi Jan 18 23:40:53 HParsons: try that in the upstart script in /etc/event.d/ Jan 18 23:42:56 Hmmm, not seeing an upstart - different name, or possibly different folder? Jan 18 23:44:30 HParsons: name should match the package id Jan 18 23:44:48 "upstart" is a type of script, not a name Jan 18 23:44:59 grrr need for speed keeps crashing :P I'll probably have to uninstall and reinstall Jan 18 23:45:01 the HParsons project Jan 18 23:45:49 Toaster23: WNW Jan 18 23:47:05 OK, this was installed using the optware-bootstrap-manua.sh script Jan 18 23:47:23 it's a car game, crashing is inevitable Jan 18 23:48:01 HParsons: BTW, I recommend using the packages in Preware now, rather than that script. The file you're looking for will be optware-dropbear or optware-openssh Jan 18 23:48:12 PuffTheMagic: pong (was eating dinner) Jan 18 23:48:32 Templarian: i need an Icon for Terminus Jan 18 23:48:33 :D Jan 18 23:48:41 so, what's the best way to check --option style arguments in a shell script? Jan 18 23:48:45 * Templarian goes and looks up what that is Jan 18 23:48:48 (using only things that exist on a Pre) Jan 18 23:48:50 PuffTheMagic: when's the testing release coming? Jan 18 23:49:12 PuffTheMagic: can't find anything in google since it's a word. Jan 18 23:49:16 when i figure out how to create a pan the screen Jan 18 23:49:17 The thing I liked about that script was that it installed everything we needed. Frankly, I'm not even sure what's needed... maybe an update to the web page desribing the files that one would want to download. I suspected dropbear was where I needed, but I'll check both Jan 18 23:49:51 rwhitby, you mean like --help? Jan 18 23:49:55 HParsons: the OpenSSH package in Preware also installes everything needed, from scratch Jan 18 23:50:31 Last time I doctored my phone, I tried installing, but didn't get any type of prompt or anything, so threw my hands up and went back to "what I knew". Jan 18 23:51:13 acydlord: yeah, in a nice general way. I know how to do it manually using a switch statement Jan 18 23:51:45 HParsons: did you read the package description and then the homepage link it points to? Jan 18 23:52:00 it requires ssh keys Jan 18 23:52:49 Hmmm, thought I looked for instructions, but didn't see that. Probably my miss, too much of a hurry (seems there's never a "convenient" time when you're rebuilding the phone) Jan 18 23:53:01 I'll go back and look though Jan 18 23:53:23 the man, the myth, the legend... dtzWill Jan 18 23:53:23 yeah, rebuild time is the worst time to try new things Jan 18 23:53:59 Templarian: will you make one? Jan 18 23:54:16 Virtual Box is amazingly easy to use / generally intuitive and impressive. Jan 18 23:54:46 timepants: he's away :p what are you up to? Jan 18 23:55:03 PuffTheMagic: res is 64x64 right? Jan 18 23:55:10 yo. Jan 18 23:55:12 anyone great with ffmpeg Jan 18 23:55:16 yeah Jan 18 23:55:27 oc80z@priv ~ $ cat ~/bin/mp4 Jan 18 23:55:27 AVI=$1 Jan 18 23:55:28 MP4=$2 Jan 18 23:55:31 PuffTheMagic: your commit summery's are second to none Jan 18 23:55:55 s/summery/summary Jan 18 23:55:55 ffmpeg -threads 4 -i $AVI -vcodec libx264 -s 480x272 -flags +loop -cmp +chroma -deblockalpha 0 -deblockbeta 0 -crf 24 -bt 256k -refs 1 -coder 0 -me_range 16 -subq 5 -partitions +parti4x4+parti8x8+partp8x8 -g 250 -keyint_min 25 -level 30 -qmin 10 -qmax 51 -trellis 2 -sc_threshold 40 -i_qfactor 0.71 -acodec libfaac -ab 128k -ar 48000 -ac 2 $MP4 Jan 18 23:56:00 been using that for avi to mp4 for the palm... any suggestions..? Jan 18 23:56:18 oc80z: What's wrong with that? Jan 18 23:56:24 it works fine. Jan 18 23:56:28 * CoolMatty shrugs Jan 18 23:56:34 I always use handbrake, oc80z :p Jan 18 23:56:37 zsoc: :D Jan 18 23:56:42 is that gui? Jan 18 23:56:45 ffmpeg CLI > handbrake Jan 18 23:57:04 yeah i ffmpeg cli and transfer over the vpn Jan 18 23:57:15 zsoc, what am I up to? pizza, thats what Jan 18 23:57:16 preset profiles > CLI :p Jan 18 23:57:19 timepants: what's inspiring your comments like that? haha Jan 18 23:57:27 timepants: om nom pizza, i could go for some. Jan 18 23:57:34 * dtzWill debates making some Jan 18 23:57:51 Rod - closes I see (and it looks like the right spot) is in optware-dropbear . However, the pertinet commands look like they handle it via using ppp0 instead of the name. Jan 18 23:58:01 oc80z: there are about 25,000,000 x264 optimizations, but they are beyond my knowledge. there are some crazy fiends that love that stuff tho around #ffmpeg Jan 18 23:58:18 CoolMatty: What does using a preset profile have anything to do with CLI vs GUI? Jan 18 23:58:40 Or should I be changing ppp0 to rmnet0 ? Jan 18 23:58:49 not having to work out the best CLI command to come up with a good looking video file :p Jan 18 23:59:53 HParsons: yes, replace ppp0 with rmnet0 Jan 19 00:00:10 20/20 vision is required for Terminus Jan 19 00:00:14 CoolMatty: Your GUIs are doing the same thing, and giving you many fewer options and choices, and much less transparency of operation. Jan 19 00:01:10 sorry keep d/c'ing Jan 19 00:01:47 ok Jan 19 00:01:51 i wonder what the trellis flag for ffmpeg does Jan 19 00:01:52 thanks zsoc Jan 19 00:02:45 zsoc: when did I ever say anything about GUI vs CLI? My point is that Handbrake comes with very good preset profiles so I don't need those options and choices :p Jan 19 00:02:59 CoolMatty: Then it is perfect for you :> Jan 19 00:03:35 I also don't like many of the choices because lots of them will break playback on various devices :/ Jan 19 00:03:50 zsoc: http://www.webos-internals.org/images/3/33/Terminus2.png Jan 19 00:04:15 PuffTheMagic: it is very... long Jan 19 00:04:53 * zsoc thinks the philosophical discussion between GUI and CLI is similar to the distinction between "prebuild" distros and gentoo Jan 19 00:05:34 zsoc: long? Jan 19 00:06:04 PuffTheMagic: There is a lot of information in that screenshot, so either your webos device is very high resolution or the typeset is very small :> Jan 19 00:06:22 7font Jan 19 00:12:11 gah...novaterm.exe is the spawn of the devil Jan 19 00:12:20 begone, foul executable Jan 19 00:12:35 *.exe is the spawn on the devil Jan 19 00:15:13 PuffTheMagic: geez, I have 20/20 vision and I need a magnifying glass to read that Jan 19 00:15:52 very helpful channel Jan 19 00:16:17 they passed me over to their guide page Jan 19 00:16:18 http://rob.opendot.cl/index.php/useful-stuff/ipod-video-guide/ Jan 19 00:16:24 Rob, after changing the optware-dropbear as you mentioned (the two instances of ppp0 to rmnet0, then turning dev mode off and rebooting, it works like my Pre Jan 19 00:16:24 (not THAT direct, but i founded that) Jan 19 00:16:41 ugh, novacom -t open tty:// doesn't work anymore Jan 19 00:17:45 whoops Jan 19 00:17:50 xcomp: i find novacom to be very reliable personally, even when i break other methods Jan 19 00:18:08 it just hangs Jan 19 00:19:31 Rob - sidenote - I'm having knee surgery in 3 weeks. I'll be laid up for 10 days. I'll take a look at the newer version of configuring OpenSSH via PreWare Jan 19 00:20:02 weird, it works in cmd but not in cygwin Jan 19 00:20:28 d|o.o|b Jan 19 00:20:28 PuffTheMagic: still need an icon? Jan 19 00:20:30 Dang, I typed Rob twic, meant Rod, even started to mistype dang - dnag. Jan 19 00:20:32 Not my day Jan 19 00:20:38 HParsons: btw, the instructions in the upstart script for the dropbear and openssh packages in Preware would have worked already ... ;-) Jan 19 00:21:27 I will look closer at them, promise. When things are working OK, I'm lazy. When they're not, I'm rushed. What can I say? Jan 19 00:22:35 PuffTheMagic: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41063/terminusico.png I can put a bigger hashmark/~ like Terminal if you like, but I think that works? Jan 19 00:22:37 Thanks for the help. Going to go let the guy on the forum know what to fix, and let my wife know I didn't destroy her Pixi. Jan 19 00:23:04 HParsons: that's always a good thing Jan 19 00:23:27 oh. I needed to type enter again. silly novacom Jan 19 00:24:34 xcomp: might be your shell Jan 19 00:26:00 zsoc: output is really weird, don't know why Jan 19 00:26:21 tried forcing $TERM to vt100 but no chane Jan 19 00:26:23 *ge Jan 19 00:27:14 it's like ... I type a command and have to press enter three times for it to register output Jan 19 00:27:25 well, twice Jan 19 00:27:38 don't really know Jan 19 00:28:49 Can you do OTA on wifi with no carrier service? Jan 19 00:29:15 egaudet: if you are signed into a valid palm profile, yes. Jan 19 00:29:29 (I do it all the time) Jan 19 00:30:19 ahh OK so I have to run firstuse then Jan 19 00:38:08 Rod, guess the real kicker on the whole name thing - I just noticed it was rboatright (Randy?) that said I should get on here to ask. Should have been bugging him instead of you :) Jan 19 00:38:16 Thanks again Jan 19 00:40:00 Yeah, Randy is a real kicker sometimes. Jan 19 00:40:28 heh, Randy Jan 19 00:40:55 Where is good old Randy? Jan 19 00:47:39 #ffmpeg are some friggin geeks. Jan 19 00:49:03 no joke Jan 19 00:49:38 i pastebin'd the line Jan 19 00:49:53 and the finger went right up to the bridge of their glasses Jan 19 00:50:18 ..went downhill from there after i corrected one of the regulars Jan 19 00:52:45 if cvs took longer to checkout the damn binutils that would be great. Jan 19 00:54:21 dtzWill: came up with a "better" control method. didn't like my other one too much, then I remembered quake's method Jan 19 00:54:29 it's a diagonal method Jan 19 00:54:46 for example: D = up, Z = down, S = left, X = right Jan 19 00:55:04 anyone ever have an issue where an app from the catalog gets stuck installing? Jan 19 00:56:21 yeah. Jan 19 00:56:23 it sucks Jan 19 00:56:35 run luna-rescan and it should fix it self Jan 19 00:56:55 awesome, thanks Jan 19 00:57:05 GSM WR 1.3.5.2 doctor is out Jan 19 00:57:59 and meta-doctor updated, including the ability to remove carrier check and customisations Jan 19 00:58:42 rwhitby kickin ass and takin names. Jan 19 01:00:22 CoolMatty: yeah someone suggested that on the forums. i like the idea, and loved it in quake, but i'm having a hard time getting used to it--keep going the wrong way. maybe i should give it more time Jan 19 01:00:46 yeah after using wsad for a few days it's hard to go to something else haha Jan 19 01:01:14 rwhitby, is there something special I have to do to get OTA to work aside from running firstuse after a meta doctor? Jan 19 01:01:15 anyone else recognize that while playing vba the screens brightness goes down a tiny bit and after some time up again or is it just me pre? im playing, so constantly keyboard input, it shouldnt be the build in feature which dims after some time without inpu Jan 19 01:01:42 nope, only dims for me when it's idle Jan 19 01:02:09 Sonic-NKT: i don't think i've noticed that either, sorry. Jan 19 01:02:33 im using W=left E=up S=down D=right... after some getting used to this it is really better for games like zelda and so on Jan 19 01:03:23 strange, maybe just my pre... it is really minimal, ah it works, not that important :) Jan 19 01:03:35 xcomp: didn't seem to work :/ i tried a luna rescan both when the app was in it's "installing" state and when it was just totally removed, but i can't install it still Jan 19 01:03:55 my screen doesn't even dim when it's supposed to though. the whole "ambient light" adjustment thing has never worked on my pre Jan 19 01:04:04 the sensor works, but the screen never dims :/ Jan 19 01:04:14 Flashpass: try running emh first Jan 19 01:04:38 xcomp: emh = ? Jan 19 01:05:04 emergency migration helper Jan 19 01:06:21 seems to happen in WebOS to without running any extra application.. well who cares its almost not recognizeable :) Jan 19 01:10:01 may have to replace my pre anyway, seems like the audiojack is not really working :( somtimes in only hear the sound on one earphone Jan 19 01:12:17 egaudet: firstuse should be all that is required Jan 19 01:14:27 rwhitby: i just ran ecore_config as compiled on my system, no errors Jan 19 01:14:49 still trying to figure out what the issue is with libcurl Jan 19 01:15:16 hmm...wait Jan 19 01:15:23 let me purge duplicate libs first Jan 19 01:16:16 checking for updates spinning forever :( Jan 19 01:19:04 rwhitby: yeah, definitely running against /usr/lib/libcurl.so.4 per ldd Jan 19 01:25:37 Flashpass: can you install other app catalog apps? Jan 19 01:26:00 * zsoc wishes the ubuntu install was slightly more configurable Jan 19 01:26:10 i guess that's kind of oxymoronic Jan 19 01:27:01 I like how this new version of virtual box can do passive mouse and keyboard focusing. Jan 19 01:27:07 zsoc: install ubuntu server and put in the junk you need Jan 19 01:27:12 Although it's probably done that for 5 years, since that's probably the last time I used it Jan 19 01:27:31 jettero: I am installing server edition, but reading the lists of packages... it still seems overkill Jan 19 01:27:46 Is python really _necessary_ in the average server stack? I don't know, maybe. Jan 19 01:28:13 * zsoc complains too much Jan 19 01:28:45 yeah, I think it is Jan 19 01:28:50 python is used by the OS for various things Jan 19 01:29:07 I don't think it's very big though Jan 19 01:29:10 jettero: it's probably my general ubuntu ignorance, i'll shush Jan 19 01:29:46 It amazes me how far opensource in general has come in the last few years, from a medium/advanced user perspective. Jan 19 01:30:29 jettero: you're right tho, the more i poke through this the more i realize server edition 9.10 is pretty light Jan 19 01:30:46 how do you pronounce 'herb' in au? Jan 19 01:31:09 gress Jan 19 01:33:31 haha people want visualboyadvance to make them their coffee Jan 19 01:33:46 well there's something in the patches that is making my Pre unstable lol Jan 19 01:33:59 134 patches installed, keeps freezing Jan 19 01:40:17 is there a document out there that details the way the webos boot order? Jan 19 01:40:20 dtzWill: you ever use a public forum before? Jan 19 01:41:44 zsoc: haha Jan 19 01:42:52 dtzWill: i would look at the thread, but i would then feel compelled to shut down everyone who has said something ridiculous since page 1 Jan 19 01:43:20 what thread, I'll do it! :D Jan 19 01:43:49 haha nah i'm just being complain-y about some less-than thoughtful requests Jan 19 01:44:26 "Will, why is vba so slow? aren't you supposed to be a _good_ programmer?" Jan 19 01:44:43 "Why can't i load a DS rom" Jan 19 01:44:43 zsoc: it's because he didn't use evas :p Jan 19 01:45:05 xcomp: lulzget :) i can't say anything bad to you, supa evas porting man Jan 19 01:45:31 xcomp: i thought about using evas, if it's me you're talking about. Jan 19 01:45:43 dtzWill: just being facetious :) Jan 19 01:46:18 xcomp: but it didn't build at the time and i wanted something that worked--also wasn't clear about a good way to ship the libraries--sure i could package them and -rpath it up but that's a)messy and b)makes duplicates of libs... anyway just seemed like i should wait Jan 19 01:46:26 i'm all for a sweet rom selector in the future based on evas :) Jan 19 01:46:51 i think it's probably best to try to build static binaries Jan 19 01:47:07 for distribution purposes Jan 19 01:48:36 there is a plan to distribute libraries to be installed in /usr/local/lib on the Pre (same as in sb2) and make aps depend on those packages Jan 19 01:48:52 org.webosinternals.widk sets up a bind mount for that area Jan 19 01:49:08 yeah that's true Jan 19 01:49:16 which is what I have set up on my pre right now Jan 19 01:49:50 dtzWill: i've committed a fix that should allow building of the libs, but I haven't moved them out of nonworking yet Jan 19 01:50:21 I need someone to try to reproduce this libcurl issue for me before I can do that Jan 19 01:50:31 hia all! I'm finally getting around to putting my patches back on after running EPR, and I'm noticing I can't re-install the virtual keyboard. I'm getting http://webos.pastebin.com/m45857fe1 Jan 19 01:51:04 xcomp: no worries, just didnt' seem ready as a dependency and for just a rom selector didn't seem worth it to try to get it working.. and you guys are all on top of taht anyway :) Jan 19 01:51:18 probably do it all wrong "bad dtzWill!" Jan 19 01:51:23 dtzWill: you could make a very snazzy rom selector using elementary :) Jan 19 01:51:55 xcomp: bet i could. also i wanted to make a menu of sorts, but i didn't feel like it... i'm just using raw font rendering+blitting with for loops to make what i have so far haha Jan 19 01:52:46 is it possible the EPR missed those files during it's removal process, or is it more likely I screwed something up with another patch later on? Jan 19 01:55:19 dtzWill: damnit, release visualcoffeboyadvance and stop holding out on us Jan 19 01:55:40 s/ffe/ffee/ Jan 19 01:55:40 destinal meant: dtzWill: damnit, release visualcoffeeboyadvance and stop holding out on us Jan 19 01:55:44 flare576: could be an epr bug. Jan 19 01:56:13 zsoc: that's why I figured I'd stop by to report it.... it didn't strike me as likely that anything else would touch those files. Jan 19 01:56:13 destinal: haha. but it's too good to share! /me holds it tightly and looks around defensively >_> <_< Jan 19 01:56:45 flare576: egaudet mentioned awhile ago little things here and there that epr seemed to be missing, but i thought he worked it out Jan 19 01:56:57 destinal: it's not good anyway without the coffee-pre addon Jan 19 01:57:07 Randy_work: ping Jan 19 01:57:31 well, I'll stick around to see if his ears start to burn now that you've mentioned his name :) Jan 19 01:57:33 dtzWill: ah, the pre+cafe edition Jan 19 01:57:41 destinal: LOL Jan 19 01:57:44 dtzWill: we're not supposed to release its existance Jan 19 01:57:48 destinal: yeah, part of the early release Jan 19 01:57:54 are you forgetting your NDA? Jan 19 01:58:01 destinal: oh damn, NDA. sorry. probably will lose my access rights :( Jan 19 01:59:40 WHAT HAVE YOU WROUGHT Jan 19 02:01:08 Early release of pre-coffee he meant, obviously destinal. Jan 19 02:01:22 :p Jan 19 02:03:01 vkb is a patch that happens to expose a known bug in autopatch technology that makes EPR fail to clean up created files flare576 Jan 19 02:03:20 installing OBSOLETE virtual keyboard will remove these files and allow reinstall of vkb Jan 19 02:03:35 egaudet: Right, I knew that. Crap. Sorry. I'm a terrible advice giver :P Jan 19 02:03:41 egaudet: hah, ok, I'll install obsolete and then roll it back and reinstall :) Jan 19 02:03:48 Is there any logistical difference between sudo -s and sudo -i? Jan 19 02:03:52 * zsoc <-- ubuntu nub Jan 19 02:03:58 egaudet: just wanted to make sure you guys were aware :D I <3 you and all you do. Jan 19 02:04:31 flare576: oh cool, can i borrow your car then? Jan 19 02:04:54 Next time you're in Washington state, she's all yours. Hope you can drive a stick. Jan 19 02:04:58 zsoc: do you know if it is possible for a single sdl app to have multiple cards/surfaces? Jan 19 02:05:11 is there a way to switch to landscape mode with vba Jan 19 02:05:32 sryan-wirc: hit 0 (orange+@) Jan 19 02:05:39 egaudet: does "Hide App Vendors" have any known issues? Jan 19 02:05:54 sryan-wirc: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:VBA#Controls Jan 19 02:06:02 xcomp: the short answer to that is yes and no :P Jan 19 02:06:13 esplain :) Jan 19 02:06:20 sryan-wirc: won't do you too much good though since there are no touchscreen controls Jan 19 02:07:40 xcomp: er... to my understanding, you can't _really_, at all. BUT, you could have a mojo app which uses upstart to launch multiple iterations of an sdl app (like multiple vnc connections), although I believe we're trying to move away from upstart for sdl Jan 19 02:07:57 ah Jan 19 02:08:04 xcomp: just fork off new processes and have each use sdl :) Jan 19 02:08:19 xcomp: sdl itself _can_ handle multiple 'windows', but the luna hook seems to superceed that from my brief testing Jan 19 02:08:21 i was trying to determine if it was possible to have an ecore_evas == a card Jan 19 02:08:31 zsoc: we're moving away from upstart for things that type:game is designed for, but not in general Jan 19 02:08:47 so that an app could just have multiple ecore evases Jan 19 02:08:51 rwhitby: gotcha Jan 19 02:09:12 zsoc: if something needs root (other than through a Palm library or service), then type:game is going to break for it in the future, so using type:game for it is poor forward planning Jan 19 02:09:26 rwhitby: also a good point Jan 19 02:09:51 but for things like vba and quake and doom, type:game is perfect Jan 19 02:10:11 rwhitby: so.. for things like.. games? Jan 19 02:10:12 xD Jan 19 02:10:30 rwhitby: Are there any plans to add filtering to feeds... say, if I didn't want to see apps from a certain company anymore, ever? Jan 19 02:10:32 not that I know of Jan 19 02:10:38 re: "hide app vendors" Jan 19 02:10:50 egaudet: I get this: usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.findapps/stylesheets/appcatalog.css Hunk #1 FAILED at 1579 Jan 19 02:10:59 flare576: there are no concrete plans, but no reason why it couldn't be done in preware Jan 19 02:11:34 rwhitby: Shall I consider this a feature request, or should I pop over to the wiki and add it to discussion? I like being able to ignore stuff on the app store. Jan 19 02:12:03 flare576: add it to the wiki talk page Jan 19 02:12:27 if it's not there, it will be forgotten. even if it is there, doesn't mean it will be done :-) Jan 19 02:16:22 added, and yeah, not exactly the highest priority of the stuff you guys are up to. Jan 19 02:16:37 * geist yawns Jan 19 02:17:40 is the pre's gdb completely unusable? Jan 19 02:17:48 geist: I've been meaning to ask you what your "go to" method/utility was for profiling arm apps Jan 19 02:17:58 oprofile i believe Jan 19 02:18:27 geist: Ah, ok. I just recall seeing in multiple places an irregularity with using oprofile and core 8's Jan 19 02:21:49 er, rather it was the PMU unit of the cortex A8, and the bug being interrupts getting disabled arbitrarily Jan 19 02:24:48 too much code today at work .. just too much Jan 19 02:31:08 update-rc.d: warning: qemu-kvm stop runlevel arguments (0 1 6) do not match LSB Default-Stop values (1) Jan 19 02:32:15 * rwhitby starts on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Save_and_Restore Jan 19 02:34:00 now, where to locate the scripts ... Jan 19 02:34:14 rwhitby: does this mean we need to write a svript for each savable thing? Jan 19 02:34:41 destinal-wirc1: yep, using common functions for common activities Jan 19 02:35:52 $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT/usr/lib/ipkg/info/.saverestore Jan 19 02:36:11 what do you mean common functions for common activities? It's a shell script right, what common functions will it be accessing? Jan 19 02:37:19 egaudet: e.g. save_all_app_cookies, or save_all_app_mojo_databases Jan 19 02:37:51 or merge_sqlite_dump_back_into_database Jan 19 02:37:59 rwhitby it also should be somehow integrated into a predoctor function if we need one, maybe aupt will mean we dont Jan 19 02:38:24 or maybe we can postdoctor Jan 19 02:38:28 rwhitby, where is it getting these functions? Are you supplying a binary for them to call? Jan 19 02:38:35 destinal-wirc1: I intend to make the operation generic enough that it could possibly be used for lots of things like that Jan 19 02:38:41 egaudet: shell source Jan 19 02:39:38 PuffTheMagic: were you coerced into keeping your nick? Jan 19 02:39:39 egaudet: so you've thrown an idea of putting the saverestore script in the ipkg control file. interesting. Jan 19 02:39:52 did egaudet browbeat you into it? Jan 19 02:39:59 rwhitby, yea i figure you won't be saving nor restoring without the app installed anyway Jan 19 02:40:16 signed apps would have secure/trusted saverestore scripts Jan 19 02:40:17 PuffTheMagic: also any luck with stty Jan 19 02:40:29 egaudet: but we can't package into commercial apps Jan 19 02:40:42 egaudet: and I definitely want to save and restore commercial app data Jan 19 02:40:42 wait was PuffTheMagic actually thinking of changing? Jan 19 02:41:20 good point Jan 19 02:42:25 that asks the question how will one get a commerciall app saverestore script installed? Jan 19 02:42:27 egaudet: whilst the idea of distribution along with the app is enticing, I think at the start at least we need to centralise the scripts as the syntax quickly evolves. once it's stable I expect it could also look at the location for the script Jan 19 02:42:37 egaudet: it will come with saverestoremgr Jan 19 02:42:54 egaudet: just like feeds come with ipkgservice Jan 19 02:43:23 $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT/usr/palm/applications/saverestoremgr/.saverestore ? Jan 19 02:44:04 egaudet: they will need to live somewhere outside of the area that another app can overwrite without a postinst Jan 19 02:44:38 so it has to be outside of $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT altogether Jan 19 02:44:43 (just like upstart scripts, otherwise the security model is broken) Jan 19 02:44:47 yeah Jan 19 02:45:41 sometime in the future we need to tighten ipkgservice and wosqi to not allow installation files outside the specific app dir without a postinst doing it, but that's a big job. Jan 19 02:45:41 /var/usr/bin, or for most secure (i.e. ro fs) /usr/local/bin/ Jan 19 02:46:31 yeah, /var unfortunately is vulnerable due to the Internalz vulverabilities Jan 19 02:47:28 as long as the scripts don't get bloated /usr/local/bin Jan 19 02:48:20 or /etc Jan 19 02:48:33 hmm, widk has made /usr/local vulnerable to the Internalz vulnerabilities Jan 19 02:48:43 (through the bind mount into /var) Jan 19 02:49:28 :doh: Jan 19 02:50:30 I think we have to assume /var is not vulnerable, and shame Jason into whitelisting /var subdirs in Internalz Jan 19 02:51:03 since if /var is vulnerable, then the whole game is lost anyway by other Palm means Jan 19 02:51:19 * zsoc just lost the game Jan 19 02:51:42 what important is on /var Jan 19 02:51:43 from palm Jan 19 02:52:37 really I think each package should have a conf file that tells the saverestore binary how/what to save/restore Jan 19 02:52:48 rather than having a script Jan 19 02:53:05 egaudet: /var/.flags for a start, /var/home/root, /var/preferences, /var/ssl, .... Jan 19 02:54:33 none of those are game breakers, just inconveniences Jan 19 02:54:49 but yeah I think /var is fine Jan 19 02:55:37 egaudet: so you prefer conf file to script. that makes saverestoremgr exponentially harder to write Jan 19 02:55:57 destinal-wirc1 will hate that idea :-) Jan 19 02:56:01 i assume most of you here are US users... would anyone be so kind to show me the output of their "lunaprop -a" ? Jan 19 02:56:32 I have no reason to prefer it aside from it "seeming" right. But if there's nothing to gain except complexity, then stick with scripts Jan 19 02:56:46 DO NOT show lunaprop -a output Jan 19 02:57:11 ivanst: which specific property are you interested in? Jan 19 02:57:26 rwhitby: i'm sorry... have i asked anything inappropriate. here's a little bit of back-story Jan 19 02:57:35 (since some of them would allow you to impersonate a device) Jan 19 02:57:52 i'm interested in com.palm.properties.DMCARRIER Jan 19 02:58:14 ivanst: ROW, Sprint, are two values I've seen Jan 19 02:58:48 here's the deal... i have an unlocked pre, and i'm using it in croatia. since 1.3.5 my app catalog is broken - and by examining some files i concluded that amongst others, that one is being sent to the catalog server when fetching app lists, etc... Jan 19 02:59:19 i'm aware that i most likely not get any help with this, but really, all i want to do is install some free apps and palm currently won't let me do that Jan 19 02:59:27 ivanst: app catalog access is mainly determined by the settings in your palm profile **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 19 02:59:57 2010