**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 25 02:59:56 2010 Jan 25 03:00:05 111 down Jan 25 03:09:50 he didn't get that Jan 25 03:09:53 he fumbled Jan 25 03:10:28 Preware needs something to prevent incompatible patches from installing Jan 25 03:10:33 easily got it Jan 25 03:10:56 Kyusaku: incompat. patches do NOT install Jan 25 03:11:48 well I've run into a couple that on the surface say they install Jan 25 03:12:07 then they do Jan 25 03:12:24 but get stuck especially when trying to remove them Jan 25 03:12:41 the install scripts don't allow install if it can't apply cleanly Jan 25 03:13:16 stuck only happens with other problems like backswiping during install Jan 25 03:15:40 egaudet-wirc: ok.. Jan 25 03:15:49 egaudet-wirc: Update All success Jan 25 03:15:55 egaudet-wirc: What now? Jan 25 03:16:37 verify patches look like work after luna restart Jan 25 03:17:12 then epr 2.0 and verify md5sums stock Jan 25 03:17:23 yeah, they all work Jan 25 03:17:25 and it's ugly Jan 25 03:17:34 got too many top-bar's installed Jan 25 03:17:39 lol Jan 25 03:18:33 i really hope hartley misses it Jan 25 03:18:35 he sucked at OU Jan 25 03:18:40 so he should suck at the Saints Jan 25 03:19:34 wooo go saints Jan 25 03:19:34 lol Jan 25 03:19:37 damnit Jan 25 03:19:53 favre ruined it Jan 25 03:19:54 thanks favre please retire Jan 25 03:20:05 he won't.. he has to win that super bowl Jan 25 03:20:05 Honestly, I hate him because he pronounces his own name wrong. Jan 25 03:20:10 I know people with that name. Jan 25 03:20:13 FAV-RE Jan 25 03:20:51 he won in 96 Jan 25 03:20:56 get out now Jan 25 03:21:04 he just lost that game Jan 25 03:21:28 Can i get WebOS on the HTC Touch Pro? Jan 25 03:21:28 only one thing to do was NOT throw an int on that last drive Jan 25 03:23:00 yeah, he could have run for 10 yards Jan 25 03:23:07 and picked up enough for field goal range Jan 25 03:23:22 you DON'T throw back across your body on an out scramble Jan 25 03:23:34 N3O9Pr: no Jan 25 03:23:35 anyway.. Jan 25 03:23:36 EPR Jan 25 03:23:40 testing feed? Jan 25 03:24:01 N3O9Pr: Sure.. figure out how to engineer it.. And buy it from Palm. Jan 25 03:24:46 ~testing-feeds Jan 25 03:24:49 ~testing-feed Jan 25 03:24:50 hmm... testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Jan 25 03:31:30 egaudet-wirc: EPR 2.0 requires DIFFSTAT? Jan 25 03:31:50 no Jan 25 03:31:54 sure it does Jan 25 03:32:02 I just tapped on it and it wants to install Diffstat Jan 25 03:32:05 test feed Jan 25 03:32:10 not reg Jan 25 03:32:12 i am in test feed Jan 25 03:32:15 2.0 Jan 25 03:32:15 v 2.0.0 Jan 25 03:32:29 and as soon as I tapped on it, it said, "Need to install diffstat" Jan 25 03:32:33 I don't even have reg feed on. Jan 25 03:33:46 I dunno Jan 25 03:34:19 Me either Jan 25 03:34:31 maybe the reg feed isn't off Jan 25 03:35:21 because the reg feed has: Jan 25 03:35:28 Depends: org.webosinternals.patch, org.webosinternals.diffstat Jan 25 03:35:37 but the testing feed doesn't have any depends Jan 25 03:35:43 This sounds like a bug in Preware or IKG Jan 25 03:35:47 IPKG* Jan 25 03:36:51 yeah.. it's picking up the dpends from the reg feed Jan 25 03:49:54 destinal-wirc: you've been hiding :> Jan 25 03:50:10 working this weekend Jan 25 03:50:14 alas Jan 25 03:50:27 aha Jan 25 03:50:45 like 20+ hrs Jan 25 03:51:12 ouch Jan 25 03:51:24 due compensation i hope Jan 25 03:51:39 yeah Jan 25 03:51:53 very short term consulting Jan 25 03:52:17 anything interesting that I missed? Jan 25 03:54:23 destinal-wirc: i have a bad sense of priority Jan 25 03:54:36 destinal-wirc: will did some more magic with vba, it's hot now. Jan 25 03:54:45 cool Jan 25 03:55:10 advance playable? Jan 25 03:55:44 destinal-wirc: puff is trying to convince people to make a gles_sdl engine for e/ecore(or whatever you call it), for hardware accellerated versions of the stuff xcomp videoed Jan 25 03:56:17 destinal-wirc: er... _some_ advance is playable? :D touch screen, and configurable skins (any size display, buttons and dpad in any location, AM compatible config file) Jan 25 03:56:31 yeah I've played with the evas desktop Jan 25 03:57:16 hopefully if peopleli Jan 25 03:57:49 hopefully if people like it they'll send him beer money :) Jan 25 03:58:32 Yeah, that's why I donated.... a graphic :D Jan 25 03:59:10 I haven't played it yet tbh Jan 25 04:00:00 you've also never played a tower defense :( Jan 25 04:00:08 you are a very strange individual :> Jan 25 04:00:36 I played yours Jan 25 04:01:10 lol that's not really.. finished.. er.. or working lol Jan 25 04:01:11 or mine :P Jan 25 04:01:47 but yeah I'm unusual. tv is only a monitor for the xbmc media center and wii at my house Jan 25 04:02:04 no cable sat or tuner Jan 25 04:02:19 whats up guys?..... Jan 25 04:02:45 JMyaDaGod: not much here Jan 25 04:02:45 destinal-wirc: http://www.kongregate.com/games/preecep/desktop-tower-defense-1-5 <-- fun! :D Jan 25 04:03:04 destinal-wirc: i respect that, tv makes you stupid so they say :> Jan 25 04:03:50 no cable here either i just have Tb of cartoons for kids and download something new everynight for me and the girl Jan 25 04:04:16 * zsoc watches 30 rock Jan 25 04:04:27 zsoc: 30 rock? sa-weet Jan 25 04:04:44 zsoc: but I'm on a pre with no flash plugin yet, you insensitive clod! Jan 25 04:04:47 destinal-wirc: xbmc on original xbox or the pc version, etc? Jan 25 04:05:44 dtzWill: still the xbox, probably switch to linux pc or sonething soon for hd Jan 25 04:05:59 destinal-wirc: yeah i'm in exactly the same situation. freaking love my xbmc though haha Jan 25 04:06:35 although my roku makes me pretty happy as well Jan 25 04:07:06 destinal-wirc: ah crap. i just realized i linked you to a flash game on wirc lol Jan 25 04:07:23 lol Jan 25 04:07:31 xbox netflix works well imo Jan 25 04:07:56 I should probably get an account Jan 25 04:08:14 destinal-wirc: use someone elses, i'm sure you know someone with one Jan 25 04:08:16 until ur 360 gets banned lol Jan 25 04:08:42 original xbox, not this newfangled thing Jan 25 04:08:50 :P Jan 25 04:09:05 oh that got netflix on xbox 1? Jan 25 04:09:21 I haven't played an actual game on it for a long time Jan 25 04:09:47 JMyDaGod: no idea Jan 25 04:09:59 just responding to zsoc Jan 25 04:10:29 zsoc: netflix on xbox 1? Jan 25 04:11:36 oh.. no.. 360 Jan 25 04:12:31 destinal-wirc: where u been Jan 25 04:12:36 ah Jan 25 04:13:08 Puff: working all weekend on a consulting gig Jan 25 04:13:25 how's it going? Jan 25 04:13:38 ok egaudet-wirc: tell me how to check the md5sums Jan 25 04:14:31 cat /usr/lib/ipkg/info/*.md5sums > /tmp/md5sums Jan 25 04:14:38 md5sum -c /tmp/md5sums |grep -v OK Jan 25 04:14:41 zsco u mod u 360? Jan 25 04:15:24 zsoc :u mod ur 360? Jan 25 04:15:28 JMyaDaGod: no, i'm no pirate ;) Jan 25 04:17:20 destinal-wirc: if u get some time i need some help figuring out why ^L dont work right on the pre Jan 25 04:17:30 same with reset/clear Jan 25 04:17:50 egaudet: md5sum: WARNING: 3 of 9713 computed checksums did NOT match Jan 25 04:18:12 md5sum: can't open './var/lib/update/install-first.sh': No such file or directory Jan 25 04:18:21 you must have installed thew rong EPR Jan 25 04:18:22 md5sum: can't open './var/lib/update/install-first-update.sh': No such file or directory Jan 25 04:18:34 No, I installed the right one. Jan 25 04:18:37 what's the 3rd file? Jan 25 04:18:41 zsoc: you've obviously never had to resort to backing up your games to keep them safe from careless friends and family Jan 25 04:18:45 those 2 are expected Jan 25 04:18:45 ./usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.videoplayer.launcher/stylesheets/media-video.css: FAILED Jan 25 04:18:54 send me your webos-patches.log if you can't find out why Jan 25 04:19:05 I installed the RIGHT one. Jan 25 04:19:10 md5sum that file and send that to me too Jan 25 04:19:18 back to my point: Jan 25 04:19:38 With both REG and TESTING feeds enabled, when I tried to install EPR 2.0, it wanted to install DIffstat. Jan 25 04:19:54 When I disabled the REG feed.. it installed EPR without any issues. Jan 25 04:20:04 so I KNOW i ran the right one Jan 25 04:20:09 because Diffstat IS_NOT installed. Jan 25 04:20:23 Puff: I'll see if I have some time after I get back to hotel Jan 25 04:20:36 e3017244a5797e4822f8f4988bc12424 ./usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.videoplayer.launcher/stylesheets/media-video.css Jan 25 04:23:50 epr 2.0 didn't touch that file Jan 25 04:24:08 egaudet: http://www.dbsooner.com/webos-patches.log Jan 25 04:26:52 when I grep "media-video" * in /media/internal/.webosinternals.patches, I only get a hit in misc-scrim-multi.patch Jan 25 04:28:44 find / -name *.orig = 0 Jan 25 04:30:09 :sigh: Jan 25 04:30:14 ? Jan 25 04:30:23 forget patching Jan 25 04:30:25 patching is done Jan 25 04:30:26 lol Jan 25 04:30:28 no more allowed Jan 25 04:30:30 k Jan 25 04:30:38 Any clue what happened? Jan 25 04:30:55 yea lsdiff failure Jan 25 04:31:02 lol Jan 25 04:31:09 1 out of a zillion isn't bad Jan 25 04:31:19 I don't think we can make it 100% perfect now. Jan 25 04:31:21 i don't see how GNU patch can be so smart to parse the f'ing headers and all their oddities but neither diffstat nor lsdiff can be up to par Jan 25 04:31:41 well once you regenerate patches it won't happen ever again Jan 25 04:31:52 ohh.. this was one of the broken headers Jan 25 04:31:53 :) Jan 25 04:31:59 broken in a different way though Jan 25 04:32:09 yeah? Jan 25 04:32:47 AUPT has my seal of approval. Jan 25 04:33:00 EPR 2.0 as well Jan 25 04:33:01 you would give AUPT your approval no matter what Jan 25 04:33:08 At this point, yes. Jan 25 04:33:17 ---.orig/usr/ in the path and lsdiff doesn't see it as a file Jan 25 04:33:21 if you want me to write a shell script to regenerate all the patch files I will Jan 25 04:33:28 yet patch can see the file and patch it correctly Jan 25 04:33:40 so it has to be ---b/usr/ Jan 25 04:33:42 who maintains patch, I'm going to tell them to just give a -l list filename option Jan 25 04:33:49 no it has to have a space after --- Jan 25 04:33:58 that frickin stupid Jan 25 04:34:24 OK, So I'll regenerate all the patches Jan 25 04:34:26 :) Jan 25 04:34:48 I mean, the Portal is doing it from 3 days ago frowards. Jan 25 04:34:52 but I can go back in time Jan 25 04:35:36 destinal-wirc: there is also this wierd issue with "forward gesture" and tab complete Jan 25 04:36:23 egaudet: Jan 25 04:36:23 [dbsooner@deluge v1.3.5]$ grep "\-\-\-\." */*.patch Jan 25 04:36:23 misc/misc-scrim-multi.patch:---.orig/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.videoplayer.launcher/stylesheets/media-video.css Jan 25 04:36:35 so it's just that one Jan 25 04:36:38 :) Jan 25 04:36:42 and I'm fixing it now Jan 25 04:37:00 dBsooner, it doesn't mean there isn't one with ---b Jan 25 04:37:01 or ---a Jan 25 04:37:07 or ---ANYTHING BUT SPACE Jan 25 04:37:20 or there aren't other oddities I don't know about Jan 25 04:37:33 I'm only going to be comfortable when all patches are generated by git diff Jan 25 04:38:49 that's the only one Jan 25 04:39:14 grep "\-\-\-" */*.patch | cut -d\ -f1 | more Jan 25 04:39:44 then scroll through them all.. there is only ONE where it has the entire line Jan 25 04:39:53 and that's the one we pointed to Jan 25 04:39:58 anyway, I regenerated it. Jan 25 04:40:10 If it weren't for that file, it would be 100% success on my side. Jan 25 04:40:10 again I do not know what other oddities that may arise Jan 25 04:40:13 So this was NOT an error. Jan 25 04:40:21 Well I am not going to regenerate all the patches. Jan 25 04:40:28 ok well I will Jan 25 04:40:31 LOL Jan 25 04:40:42 fine Jan 25 04:40:45 doing it now Jan 25 04:42:25 man, I don't envy you guys, patching is a pain Jan 25 04:42:49 dtzWill: ping Jan 25 04:42:50 way to go making it Suck Less Jan 25 04:43:07 cryptk|work: pong Jan 25 04:43:21 did you see my messages the other day about VBA? Jan 25 04:43:34 cryptk|work: uh i don't think i did, i'm sorry. Jan 25 04:43:42 cryptk|work: i'm usually good about going through all the logs. Jan 25 04:43:49 cryptk|work: what did you say? Jan 25 04:43:54 I was just talking about how in the version that is currently on preware, the screen size is really quite small Jan 25 04:43:59 oh Jan 25 04:44:00 yeah Jan 25 04:44:04 cryptk|work: that's just the first support Jan 25 04:44:06 is there a reason why it was made so small? Jan 25 04:44:19 cryptk|work: short answer is to give room for usable touch screen controls Jan 25 04:44:32 cryptk|work: and we could've made it a touch bigger but it was close to native gba res so we left it at that Jan 25 04:44:41 cryptk|work: native==less scaling noise/artifcats/blur/aliasing/bad Jan 25 04:44:41 lol Jan 25 04:44:44 egaudet: i really hope you're not writing this script.. cuz I am. Jan 25 04:44:46 * dtzWill can't pick the right word Jan 25 04:44:55 i'm not Jan 25 04:44:58 dtzWill: is there a performance gain having it at native resolution? Jan 25 04:45:08 cryptk|work: absolutely zero Jan 25 04:45:38 cryptk|work: it's done with opengl so scaling is as so 'free' that i can't measure it in the context of the emulator's performance Jan 25 04:45:50 cryptk|work: since it's an opengl texture i'd be surprised if there actually was much difference Jan 25 04:45:52 dtzWill: then why not make it a tad bigger? it just makes it hard to see what is going on... I find myself playing with it like 6 inches from my face to be able to see what is going on Jan 25 04:46:01 cryptk|work: i already explained why it was the size it was Jan 25 04:46:09 cryptk|work: and you don't need to convince me, i'm on it Jan 25 04:46:15 especially in games where I have to read text like Golden Sun Jan 25 04:46:16 cryptk|work: wait for next version, download new version, switch to my skin :D Jan 25 04:46:18 cryptk|work: we just wanted something that showed touch screens are suable Jan 25 04:46:33 zsoc: I thought the one on preware was your skin? Jan 25 04:46:36 cryptk|work: and like zsoc hinted--in a short bit, pending testing confirmation, i'll be releasing a new version with skinning support Jan 25 04:46:44 dtzWill: ahh, so this one is more of a Jan 25 04:46:51 more of a proof of concept Jan 25 04:47:00 cryptk|work: including support for multiple skins, switching between them, and a decently powerful skin configuration system _INCLUDING_ screen position and size Jan 25 04:47:05 cryptk|work: so hold onto your hat :) Jan 25 04:47:10 cryptk|work: yeah, you'll like it, new version is win :> Jan 25 04:47:13 cryptk|work: or some appropriate phrase not sure about that Jan 25 04:47:31 zsoc: did you make the nintendo themed one that is on preware? Jan 25 04:47:38 cryptk|work: that was vincent law Jan 25 04:47:38 if so, it looks really good Jan 25 04:47:46 ahh, he did a great job on the skin Jan 25 04:48:10 cryptk|work: maybe you need glasses btw :P Jan 25 04:48:20 dtzWill: I do wear glasses Jan 25 04:48:25 I am 20/20 with them on, lol Jan 25 04:48:26 cryptk|work: oh i meant new ones Jan 25 04:48:32 cryptk|work: for some reason assumed you did :D:D Jan 25 04:48:40 cryptk|work: no worries i do too just funny that i assumed haha Jan 25 04:48:41 they are new, I am tested to 20/20 with them on Jan 25 04:48:48 :P Jan 25 04:48:50 lol Jan 25 04:49:07 crypt: yeah I think he was joking Jan 25 04:49:25 destinal-wirc: yeah, I picked up on that, lol Jan 25 04:50:08 why do 99% of apps on cat and precentral suck? Jan 25 04:50:37 destinal-wirc: because they are made by no talent hacks like brighthouse Jan 25 04:50:58 and not WHE's like you guys, lol Jan 25 04:51:24 but brighthouse has SO many apps, how can they all be bad? ;) Jan 25 04:51:54 destinal-wirc: I thought brighthouse had one app? lol Jan 25 04:52:04 just over and over and over and over and over again... LOL Jan 25 04:52:27 destinal-wirc: ah, the laws of averages ;) Jan 25 04:53:44 I really wish I could filter out certain app vendors in preware Jan 25 04:53:51 esp now that it has the app cat feeds Jan 25 04:54:02 it's planned Jan 25 04:54:09 I know we can't completely filter out vendors in the actual cat... Jan 25 04:54:12 destinal-wirc: awesome Jan 25 04:54:18 I turn off those feeds myself, Jan 25 04:54:59 I leave them on... it is nice to be able to see everything that has an update in one app Jan 25 04:55:31 I did notice one app though that was showing in preware under the app cat feed, but when it launched the app cat it said it wasn't a valid application Jan 25 04:55:43 and manually opening the app cat and searching for it returned no results Jan 25 04:56:00 it was presteroids (or destroids, something like that) Jan 25 04:57:02 I am assuming it got pulled off the cat for some reason but the feeds didn't update that it was removed... Jan 25 05:00:08 later Jan 25 05:00:31 later Jan 25 05:08:59 dBsooner, ping Jan 25 05:09:04 yes? Jan 25 05:09:12 I am trying to regenerate these Jan 25 05:09:14 we need something exciting to happen, I'm bored after working all weekend. Jan 25 05:09:46 dBsooner: make something exciting happen Jan 25 05:09:49 dBsooner, you got your list of patches? Jan 25 05:09:54 yes. Jan 25 05:10:03 http://www.dbsooner.com/second_patches Jan 25 05:10:31 we dont have to regenerate everything sorry Jan 25 05:10:58 destinal-wirc, how about I release aupt, go to bed and you take all questions? :P that's exciting Jan 25 05:11:10 lmao Jan 25 05:11:17 egaudet: why not? Jan 25 05:11:22 egaudet: i JUSt started doing it Jan 25 05:11:25 sup? Jan 25 05:11:43 dBsooner, well do it if you are already doing it fine. Jan 25 05:11:49 yeah Jan 25 05:11:52 hey Jan 25 05:11:56 if it takes any longer or more work though you can just forget it Jan 25 05:12:14 don't want to waste your time doing something that is probably meaningless Jan 25 05:12:30 what's been goin on around here lately? Jan 25 05:12:32 since all your other patches passed md5sum that means lsdiff worked for them Jan 25 05:12:38 aupt rules Jan 25 05:12:44 :P Jan 25 05:13:04 lol Jan 25 05:14:11 sigh,I need to load some movies on this pre. irc is highly variable for fun Jan 25 05:14:36 and I have no laptop in current location Jan 25 05:15:56 random youtube destinal-wirc Jan 25 05:16:05 destinal-wirc: if you would like I can find some interesting thing that you could make a patch for Jan 25 05:17:39 got one for ya destinal-wirc, make a patch that changes the "action button" from a "minimize to card view" to a "launch preware" button Jan 25 05:17:50 crpyptk: it's hard for me to make a patch on the pre, yes I know it's a computer, just kind of awkwar Jan 25 05:17:50 d Jan 25 05:18:03 and then from that patch tons of other patches could be made to have it launch all kinds of crap Jan 25 05:18:05 if I had my laptop, sure Jan 25 05:18:06 destinal-wirc: true... Jan 25 05:18:18 somebody should port firebug or something Jan 25 05:18:19 I was just trying to make something for you to do, lol Jan 25 05:18:44 tmzt: isn't firebug a plugin for firefox? Jan 25 05:18:46 what is action button,the silvery thing? Jan 25 05:18:56 the button they removed on the pre plus Jan 25 05:19:09 I think palm calls it the "action button" Jan 25 05:19:11 yes it is, then you could edit the dom in real time Jan 25 05:19:29 ahh, you could firebug almost any webos app... Jan 25 05:19:34 tmzt: alas we have no XUL Jan 25 05:19:36 oh, that might not be controlled from javascript anyway Jan 25 05:19:49 not a straight port, a conceptional one Jan 25 05:19:52 we can do plugins but not extensions Jan 25 05:19:57 conceptual Jan 25 05:20:09 someone should port firefox portable... Jan 25 05:20:24 sure, you'd have to patch mojo itself Jan 25 05:20:27 and then make a patch to have it replace the built in browser... Jan 25 05:20:31 or opera mini... Jan 25 05:20:32 fennec? Jan 25 05:20:37 as a game? Jan 25 05:20:54 it could be done but I imagine harder than porting X Jan 25 05:20:56 sure Jan 25 05:21:03 and nobody seems interested in that Jan 25 05:21:17 or actually firefox mobile... not firexof portable... I wonder if the source is released for FF mobile... Jan 25 05:21:20 yeah we should port x Jan 25 05:21:25 yes it is Jan 25 05:21:25 no, we call it core-navi Jan 25 05:22:06 destinal-wirc: what have you found that would be involved in an Xorg or at least kdrive ddx? Jan 25 05:22:15 there's the old Xsdl sources Jan 25 05:23:46 sure Jan 25 05:24:24 the middle button thing can't be done via patch Jan 25 05:24:36 that's a daemon/service/native thing, we have to steal it from luna Jan 25 05:24:46 egaudet: damn... Jan 25 05:24:56 that would be handy to be able to change Jan 25 05:25:07 imagine being able to assign that button to your number one used app... Jan 25 05:26:12 is there a beta version of preware out with any new goodies? or is what you can install off the main feed the best there is right now? Jan 25 05:26:33 hoping for soem cool features I can grab through the bootstrap Jan 25 05:28:45 so I found some instructions on porting/cross compiling firefox mobile... Jan 25 05:29:04 instructions specific to maemo, but it still may make it possible Jan 25 05:29:14 anyone interested in the link? Jan 25 05:29:43 still trying to find the actual source code though... Jan 25 05:30:58 egaudet: you really want to rewrite all these right now? Jan 25 05:31:06 egaudet: that would make us have to bump ALL the versions again Jan 25 05:31:16 up to the same sub_version Jan 25 05:31:40 that's not hard Jan 25 05:31:49 nothing has been released so the "bump" is nothing Jan 25 05:32:14 well I am having some issues with this regenerating Jan 25 05:32:48 well forget it, we just have to test the remaining patches that you didn't test and verify that EPR 2.0 knows all the files Jan 25 05:33:18 how do you propose we do that? Jan 25 05:33:55 Are you sure that all 140 patches from your list you linked were installed before you EPR'd? Jan 25 05:35:12 dBsooner, ? Jan 25 05:35:15 yes Jan 25 05:35:30 there are actually 139 in that list Jan 25 05:35:31 not 140 Jan 25 05:35:36 140 Jan 25 05:36:05 139 Jan 25 05:36:18 see Jan 25 05:36:19 139 Jan 25 05:36:25 and 1 of them I manually removed Jan 25 05:36:28 because of conflict Jan 25 05:36:38 how many patches do we have? Jan 25 05:36:45 a ton Jan 25 05:36:49 200 and something Jan 25 05:36:55 what Version? Jan 25 05:36:56 1.3.1? Jan 25 05:36:57 1.3.5? Jan 25 05:37:13 brb, break time Jan 25 05:37:23 1.3.5 Jan 25 05:37:27 13.1 = 198 Jan 25 05:37:36 1.3.5 = 208 Jan 25 05:38:56 ok well make a file list of all the patches, remove the ones you installed (verified EPR with) Jan 25 05:38:57 everyone seen that pre+ and pixi+ on vzw's website right now? Jan 25 05:39:02 then run that list through mass_patch i all Jan 25 05:39:09 err mass_patch i Jan 25 05:39:09 and to answer your question, yes, I am 100% sure all 138 were installed before epr Jan 25 05:39:27 take the 138 list and remove from list of all Jan 25 05:39:30 because I did a "ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed | grep patches | wc -l" Jan 25 05:39:37 then mass_patch install all you can Jan 25 05:40:02 then list_installed and EPR 2.0, then continue till every patch was tested Jan 25 05:40:02 I've done that already Jan 25 05:40:11 i didn't explain correctly then Jan 25 05:40:24 compile file that lists every patch Jan 25 05:40:26 you want it to SKIP what's in the list Jan 25 05:40:29 take your 138 list and remvoe from that file Jan 25 05:40:34 the use that file in mass_patch i Jan 25 05:40:49 or do mass_patch i all and skip your 138 Jan 25 05:40:53 like you did with mine Jan 25 05:40:55 why not just have it SKIP if its in the Jan 25 05:41:02 yeah Jan 25 05:41:03 ok Jan 25 05:41:09 but I have done that.. basically with your list Jan 25 05:41:14 your list is basically my list Jan 25 05:41:15 but then you'll have to ADD to the file Jan 25 05:41:19 to a list_installed and add it to the file Jan 25 05:41:27 so what are you going to be doing? Jan 25 05:41:38 I just finished OTA to 1.3.5 Jan 25 05:41:42 lol Jan 25 05:41:42 ok Jan 25 05:41:44 azakus: yep Jan 25 05:45:31 1.1.1 of vba in preware for those that care :P :) Jan 25 05:46:17 nice Jan 25 05:46:24 did you include a rom? Jan 25 05:46:28 or just the skins... Jan 25 05:47:16 dtzWill ??? Jan 25 05:51:53 vba has required firmware? Jan 25 05:52:01 (other than games) Jan 25 05:52:40 tmzt: all you need to add after you install vba is the roms you want to play Jan 25 05:54:51 dtzWill: gotta admit, not a fan of how small the screen is now in vba Jan 25 05:55:15 how's the sound? Jan 25 06:07:27 PuffTheMagic_: the screensize is set by skin creator Jan 25 06:07:38 PuffTheMagic_: it can be anything--game only enforces aspect ratios Jan 25 06:07:56 PuffTheMagic_: and you can disable the touchscreen controls, orientation, etc. certainly didn't regress in functionality afaik Jan 25 06:08:06 Rick-home: skins is the big thing for this update. Jan 25 06:09:01 Rick-home: no rom yet. I like the idea of pushing a rom but then i'm not sure that people will see the "how to install roms" mesage--short of some first-run thing. really the best answer is a much more useful main page with help and everything else Jan 25 06:10:48 PuffTheMagic_: orange+Q (/) swaps skins... there is one that has a larger screen. Jan 25 06:11:10 good night Jan 25 06:11:15 what? Jan 25 06:11:19 no Jan 25 06:11:26 We are going to get this done Jan 25 06:11:44 let me know how many you verify tomorrow Jan 25 06:11:52 thats dumb Jan 25 06:12:03 how is that dumb? Jan 25 06:12:09 i am almost done Jan 25 06:12:23 I have verified 178 right now Jan 25 06:12:31 nice Jan 25 06:12:39 so you can stay just a smidge longer Jan 25 06:12:47 me staying isn't going to do anything Jan 25 06:12:51 lol Jan 25 06:12:59 you can test as many more as you want or not just let me know where you leave off Jan 25 06:13:03 yes it will. cuz we launch AUPT then we both crash out Jan 25 06:13:10 it's not releasing tonight Jan 25 06:13:13 lol Jan 25 06:13:21 I'm dead tired, I'm not releasing something then going to bed Jan 25 06:13:23 sure it is.. destinal wants to have fun. Jan 25 06:13:29 lol Jan 25 06:13:45 ok, i'll verify the rest Jan 25 06:13:49 not much more Jan 25 06:16:14 so, can anyone help me with verizon? Jan 25 06:16:45 hlall: what about verizon? Jan 25 06:16:57 alright, so i'd like to get a contract extension Jan 25 06:16:58 the pre only launched on verizon 16 minutes ago, lol Jan 25 06:17:06 and no, it's been up since before midnight est Jan 25 06:17:09 the news sites just noticed :P Jan 25 06:17:17 what's the diff between stability and reliability Jan 25 06:17:19 well, it is 12:16 my time zone Jan 25 06:17:34 anyway, wirefly has a deal with free droid erises Jan 25 06:17:44 i'd get a pre, pixi and 2 erises for the price of a pre Jan 25 06:17:54 hlall: is this a question about verizon? or the pre on verizon? Jan 25 06:17:54 but i'd like to stuff the erises into a drawer Jan 25 06:17:58 verizon Jan 25 06:18:04 i have no idea where else to ask Jan 25 06:18:20 i'd rather not ask support :p Jan 25 06:18:39 I doubt many people here would know about all the inner workings of verison seeing as the pre ahs only been on sprint until less than an hour ago, lol Jan 25 06:18:46 (or perhaps just over an hour) Jan 25 06:18:57 hmm what's this about? Jan 25 06:19:25 basically, i'm wondering if i get a contract extension with data plans for the erises, will i be able to reactivate my old phones on those lines, eliminate the data plan, and stuff the erises into a drawer? Jan 25 06:19:39 i really just want the pre, but the eris is a nice insurance plan Jan 25 06:19:45 they might require the new plan Jan 25 06:19:47 firestrider, stability is will the program run, without crashing, without memory leaks etc... reliability is will there be data loss Jan 25 06:19:58 so your probably paying for the data either way Jan 25 06:20:37 nope, not with the old phones Jan 25 06:20:48 my parents have the simplest phones they offer Jan 25 06:20:56 no way i'd give them anything with a touch screen Jan 25 06:21:01 they don't know how to use their contacts lists yet Jan 25 06:24:11 I mean vzw might not let you activate the old phones without the 15usd data Jan 25 06:24:20 what phones are they? Jan 25 06:24:23 the samsungs? Jan 25 06:24:36 Rick-home: fwiw i did implement all your other suggestions---link to the wiki, etc Jan 25 06:24:47 how much ram does Pixi Plus have? Jan 25 06:25:06 does it have sd card? Jan 25 06:25:42 tmzt: one is that piece of crap black motorola, i think the wu204 or something along those lines Jan 25 06:26:03 and my dad lost his.. same phone, so now i have him on an even older samsung i think Jan 25 06:26:45 tmzt: no sd expansion on the pixi plus, but i think 1gb Jan 25 06:27:09 that's too bad Jan 25 06:27:22 it has a 16gb hd though? Jan 25 06:27:30 is that what you were asking? Jan 25 06:28:05 hlall: it isn't a hard drive Jan 25 06:28:21 then what? Jan 25 06:28:32 it is closer to a hardwired SD card Jan 25 06:28:32 SSD != HD? Jan 25 06:28:37 oh okay Jan 25 06:28:57 (although it isn't an SD card either... but basically the same tech) Jan 25 06:29:01 and they couldn't make it expandable to 32gb? lame Jan 25 06:29:04 the pre and pixi do not use SSD's Jan 25 06:29:59 technicalities Jan 25 06:31:00 tmzt: any idea with the verizon bit? Jan 25 06:31:15 the phones qualify under phones that wouldn't need data plans if i were to buy them today, anyway Jan 25 06:31:31 would there be anything stopping me, contract wise, from cancelling the data plans once i switched the phones out Jan 25 06:31:37 embedded SD though Pixi might just be msmnand Jan 25 06:31:56 what I'm saying is vzw has a new contract Jan 25 06:32:10 you'll probably have to agree to to get the new phones Jan 25 06:32:20 even from wfly Jan 25 06:32:28 yeah, mandatory data plans Jan 25 06:32:43 but these phones are on the bottom end, in the spectrum that doesn't require data Jan 25 06:32:44 those contracts might define your old phones as multimedia devices and require some data plan Jan 25 06:32:59 so nothing will stop me from cancelling data then? Jan 25 06:33:16 also, to get the extra 50usd from vzw you probably have to agree to a two year data plan Jan 25 06:33:29 some times they let you cancel some times they don't Jan 25 06:33:37 hm, that's the scary thing i'm trying to dodge Jan 25 06:37:58 pixi and pre both use emmc Jan 25 06:42:13 tmzt: pixi plus has 256mb ram, though ~200MB is actually available for webOS Jan 25 06:42:46 not 512? too bad Jan 25 06:42:46 heh Jan 25 06:42:53 same ram as pre Jan 25 06:42:56 I would like to see an msm with 512 Jan 25 06:43:36 does the pre plus have higher clocked processor or improved nand controller or faster ram Jan 25 06:46:14 is ubuntu more stable/secure/performant than windows 7 Jan 25 06:46:45 or any linux distro Jan 25 06:47:18 what sort of answer do you expect to that question? Jan 25 06:47:46 yes or no k) Jan 25 06:48:02 any how Jan 25 06:48:08 that is really not a sensible question Jan 25 06:48:09 and* Jan 25 06:49:14 windows 7 is new on the block so it is difficult to make an objective assessment of it as far as security goes Jan 25 06:49:19 ubuntu is the windows of linux Jan 25 06:49:51 and security is generally a function of what software packages you are actually running Jan 25 06:50:18 i could also ask if webos is more stable than RHEL Jan 25 06:50:24 or more secure Jan 25 06:50:29 I'm not sure really how security is assessed Jan 25 06:50:34 it would make just as much sense Jan 25 06:51:03 apples to oranges Jan 25 06:51:25 what is more secure, broccoli, or a door? Jan 25 06:51:34 this isn't really the right place for these questions... Jan 25 06:51:39 door Jan 25 06:51:51 yeah, not to mention the utter offtopicness of it Jan 25 06:53:02 ~watercooler Jan 25 06:53:43 infobot: watercooler is the place for off topic conversations. It can be found at #webos-watercooler Jan 25 06:53:44 cryptk|work: okay Jan 25 06:53:49 ~watercooler Jan 25 06:53:50 watercooler is probably the place for off topic conversations. It can be found at #webos-watercooler Jan 25 06:53:56 there ya go Jan 25 07:10:37 yawn Jan 25 07:12:06 yeah it's pretty quiet in here tonight Jan 25 07:13:09 just ordered my pre plus :) Jan 25 07:13:10 guess that 1.3.5 enthusiasm has died down a bit Jan 25 07:13:44 evening all Jan 25 07:13:50 farms: congrats Jan 25 07:14:09 eieio thank you!! Jan 25 07:14:21 im excited i should see it tuesday Jan 25 07:15:07 farms: ordered it from where? Jan 25 07:15:14 vzw.com Jan 25 07:16:24 farms: on contract or do they have non-contract pricing up? Jan 25 07:16:32 lemme check Jan 25 07:18:13 omg... 599.99 full retail Jan 25 07:18:34 i paid 149.99 for 2 yr agreement after rebate Jan 25 07:19:31 anyone here using a mac with their pre? Jan 25 07:19:40 hmmm, $600 is not terrible Jan 25 07:20:02 farms: yep, all the time Jan 25 07:20:18 nice, do you know if geotagging works with ilife 09 Jan 25 07:22:41 what kind of batt life should i expect? Jan 25 07:22:48 a full days worth? Jan 25 07:24:03 umm, lemme check ... i just noticed i don't have geotag enabled on this device Jan 25 07:24:25 lol, im interested if compatible and if the gps is quick to lock on Jan 25 07:24:30 it should work just fine... Jan 25 07:25:01 battery life depends on what you do Jan 25 07:25:26 im a heavy txtr Jan 25 07:25:29 if you leave IM up all the time then it will be pretty bad Jan 25 07:25:37 sms should be alright Jan 25 07:26:08 i would like to use gtalk and aim as much as possible Jan 25 07:26:17 i take it they drain like no other Jan 25 07:26:27 gtalk isn't bad Jan 25 07:26:42 but AIM is a pretty big drain Jan 25 07:27:04 aim isnt a real priority to be honest, gotta chat with my droids tho Jan 25 07:27:44 it seems people have bb, android, or now palm :) Jan 25 07:28:07 im coming from my bb tour so im hoping to have smiles on my face Jan 25 07:32:23 hope so ;) Jan 25 07:36:41 indeed, loved this phone ever since sprint got it Jan 25 07:39:22 seems the vzw pre has an led light under the gesture bar. good hope for led notifications :) Jan 25 07:39:42 hmm, well i can see geotag info in iphoto Jan 25 07:39:53 so i assume it will work everywhere Jan 25 07:40:21 everywhere on earth, maybe Jan 25 07:40:28 yes! and did it lock location quickly> Jan 25 07:40:29 ? Jan 25 07:41:27 yeah, but YMMV Jan 25 07:42:04 understandable Jan 25 07:42:40 hey is anyone else having problems with the headphones jack losing audio quality if you move the connector even slightly Jan 25 07:43:19 I like having my pre in my pocket while listening to music and this little problem is annoying Jan 25 07:43:50 have you tried the nintendo blow? Jan 25 07:44:18 yes lol Jan 25 07:44:30 lol :p Jan 25 07:45:28 so I'm assuming I'm the only one with the problem? Jan 25 07:45:39 maybe I can go get it replaced Jan 25 07:47:50 whats the best app to sync media with the mac, doubletwist? Jan 25 07:48:03 did palm ever announce when 1.4 is coming Jan 25 07:48:17 feb. i believe Jan 25 07:48:18 or just sometime in feb Jan 25 07:48:25 k Jan 25 07:49:54 looking forward to flash and video recording Jan 25 07:50:41 word Jan 25 07:51:43 I hope they keep improving battery life and UI performance Jan 25 07:57:39 night all, thx for checking on the geotagging eieio Jan 25 07:57:45 night Jan 25 08:13:02 egaudet: sent you an email about my info Jan 25 10:05:37 Hi, is there a way to hide official apps in the launcher? Jan 25 12:32:16 oopsie Jan 25 13:14:25 morning Jan 25 13:14:56 rwhitby, morning Jan 25 14:21:11 anyone from vzw in the chan? Jan 25 14:27:02 morning rwhitby Jan 25 14:27:08 wait Jan 25 14:27:12 Did you really say MORNING? Jan 25 14:28:24 dBsooner: morning Jan 25 14:29:27 howdy Jan 25 14:29:56 dBsooner: see Universal Greeting Time Jan 25 14:33:33 destinal: Ok, I'll go with UGT here.. But, why does he say "morning" when it's really morning in SA?MMhhmm... So there. I win. Jan 25 14:33:47 Regardless, good to see him here. Jan 25 14:34:23 dBsooner: haha. it's also morning here, and I'm at the center of the universe, obviously Jan 25 14:35:03 the center of the universe is always where ever your Palm Pre is at. :) Just try misplacing it for one day, and see if I'm not right. :) Jan 25 14:35:36 so, good morning, dBsooner, rwhitby, zsoc|away, other webos hacker extraordinaires Jan 25 14:35:41 :) Jan 25 14:35:57 FreeTim: this is very true Jan 25 14:36:26 but my pre is a few inches to my left, so I am at the moment, at the center of the universe, then Jan 25 14:36:41 right-O Jan 25 14:37:00 the pre is the new towel :P Jan 25 14:37:03 Has the center of the universe really been discovered yet? :D Jan 25 14:37:50 used to be you were set if you knew where your towel was. now you just need your pre, and it can find where your towel is for you. I'm sure there's an app for that. Jan 25 14:38:30 destinal: No, that's droid. As it's telling you where your towel is, it's robbing you blind. Jan 25 14:39:11 my brother is trying to decide between a pre, a pixi, or a hero Jan 25 14:39:15 (sprint) Jan 25 14:40:25 Pre! Jan 25 14:40:26 he really wants an iphone, but he has to stay on his family's plan Jan 25 14:40:35 seriously? Jan 25 14:40:37 iPhone? Jan 25 14:40:50 yeah. well you have to admit the UI and responsiveness is very good Jan 25 14:40:54 he is not a hacker Jan 25 14:41:03 I think everyone that wants/gets an iPhone now is simply doing it because everyone else has one. Jan 25 14:41:20 Yeah, it helps when you know how to use your GPU. Jan 25 14:41:25 I got an original iphone just after the price drop Jan 25 14:41:34 As apposed to complete software rendering. Jan 25 14:41:36 dBsooner: it also helps when all your apps are native code Jan 25 14:42:01 i'm considering a pre on vzw Jan 25 14:42:13 had one in july with sprint Jan 25 14:42:21 but couldnt stand sprint Jan 25 14:42:27 dBsooner: I doubt GPU is going to help as much as people think Jan 25 14:42:34 we need a LOT of optimizations too Jan 25 14:42:56 destinal: I figured it would at least help some of the horribly choppy scroll rendering. Jan 25 14:43:21 I dunno. we can render stuff a lot faster than that in straight SDL without opengl. have you seen DOOM? Jan 25 14:43:35 true Jan 25 14:43:42 I think Luna is just a dog Jan 25 14:43:47 so go figure out what's wrong with my contacts list when I flick scroll. Jan 25 14:43:57 gordian: I switched from VZW to Sprint in June to get a Pre. The network is not quite as good (but it is acceptable) coverage-wise where I live (actually my only problem is at my home), but the bill is much smaller, so I am not interested in switching back. Jan 25 14:44:16 you're running seventeen layers of abstraction, and maybe it could be faster abstraction -- I'd love to see it Jan 25 14:44:38 gordian: I agree with nt4cats|work. Sprint is probably better in my area actually. But the bill alone makes me stay. Jan 25 14:44:57 well right now i'm on at&t Jan 25 14:45:14 i'm contract free and dont even have a data plan on my treo 650 :P Jan 25 14:45:43 both my parents are on vzw so it makes slightly more sense to have them pick up the tab on this one Jan 25 14:45:44 att suck balls I used to have them for 2 yrs Jan 25 14:46:04 gordian: Well, I would say go with what you feel is the best deal. There is no perfect solution that fits everyone. Jan 25 14:46:05 well the 650 has been a workhorse but it's time to retire it once and for all Jan 25 14:46:13 even tmobile is better i havent used 3g on tmobile or att but voice is better Jan 25 14:46:36 ... once Sprint releases their 3G Airave, I'll get one and that'll solve the problem in my house Jan 25 14:46:40 But en0x, you can talk on your phone AND surf the web at once. Jan 25 14:46:40 only issue i have is whether or not the calendar app has improved at all Jan 25 14:46:47 that was my biggest gripe with the phone Jan 25 14:46:55 nt4cats|work: I have the standard Airave right now.. GOt it free. Jan 25 14:47:02 nt4cats|work: Does exactly what it should. Jan 25 14:47:02 i dont need a damn bloody multimedia solution Jan 25 14:47:14 i need to organize my life on that as quickly as i can with the 650 Jan 25 14:47:41 nt4cats|work: And I have a faster than lightning HSI connection with Cox, so I don't worry about 3G on my cell phone at home. Jan 25 14:47:49 maybe i'll just get an iphone Jan 25 14:48:24 gordian: there has been drastic improvements since JULY.. You're talking about 6 months ago. Jan 25 14:48:27 since i still feel like grabbing a pre is a beta test to a large extent Jan 25 14:48:28 dBsooner: I was going to get one -- but I'm considering getting my wife a Pixi, so basically I either need Sprint to get a wifi-enabled Pixi or a 3G airave. I can't get her a webOS phone and not have her be able to get onto the 'net from the house ... Jan 25 14:49:09 nt4cats|work: Ahh.. Yeah, boo on Sprint for allegedly telling Palm, "No wifi on Pixi!" Jan 25 14:50:33 my wife is NOT a gadget person at all, but I will wander by her computer and notice she's loaded a Pixi page or review up in her browser -- so whatever advertising they're doing is working in her case (and she sees me using webOS, that may help) Jan 25 14:51:33 s/her computer/her computer on occasion/ Jan 25 14:51:34 nt4cats|work meant: my wife is NOT a gadget person at all, but I will wander by her computer on occasion and notice she's loaded a Pixi page or review up in her browser -- so whatever advertising they're doing is working in her case (and she sees me using webOS, that may ... Jan 25 14:52:02 dBsooner, i never used that feature on gsm Jan 25 14:52:24 if i talk i told and dont surf web... when you surf web while talking u don't pay attention to the conversation Jan 25 14:54:14 any clue when vzw b&m stores may have some units on hand to demo? Jan 25 14:54:30 ...or best buy for that matter? Jan 25 14:54:52 i'd love to see the "drastic improvements" Jan 25 14:55:48 the pre looks awkward without center button Jan 25 14:55:58 do i only find tthis awkward? Jan 25 14:56:32 pre plus has no center button? Jan 25 14:56:34 I think the button makes it more interesting Jan 25 14:57:09 gordian, nope Jan 25 14:58:11 (but it serves absolutely no purpose) Jan 25 14:58:33 true Jan 25 14:58:40 but without it it looks crappy Jan 25 14:59:59 No it looks more like a polished stone. Jan 25 15:00:25 well everyone likes something different i like my pre with the center button Jan 25 15:00:47 more room for fingerprints *g* Jan 25 15:02:41 * Templarian would enjoy the pre to be a perfect stone without any buttons at all. Jan 25 15:07:14 is there an option i can pass to novacomd to make it ignore any existing processes? Jan 25 15:07:28 i have a defunct novacomd process, and it seems to think it's actually running Jan 25 15:07:33 so it just runs and exits Jan 25 15:07:53 it doesn't seem to have any --help or anything Jan 25 15:08:07 Azalyn: 'pkill novacomd' ? Jan 25 15:08:22 hrmmm, defunct, bummer Jan 25 15:08:22 dude, if it was that simple, it wouldn't be an issue. Jan 25 15:08:37 i managed to kill the parent Jan 25 15:08:43 but now init is the parent Jan 25 15:08:50 Azalyn: I should actually read what you typed before responding Jan 25 15:08:51 and it's just sitting there Jan 25 15:09:15 Azalyn: I consulted with several experts and they recommend against killing init Jan 25 15:09:42 Modded my Seidio 2600 back to work with the Touchstone :] Jan 25 15:10:55 http://tlp.lickwid.net/2600SeidioTouchstoneMod.png Jan 25 15:13:57 i can't be killed anyways. Jan 25 15:14:11 but from what i read, it's supposed to remove zombie processes Jan 25 15:14:20 Azalyn: I was kidding about killing init Jan 25 15:14:20 but it's sure taking it's sweet time Jan 25 15:14:28 and in the meantime i cannot run novacomd Jan 25 15:14:37 which is extremely frustrating Jan 25 15:15:53 i need to make an app that shows the temperature outside Jan 25 15:16:02 i could care less about the carrier string Jan 25 15:16:07 that area is sucha a waste Jan 25 15:27:23 morning Jan 25 15:36:34 PuffTheMagic: without hardware, you could screen scrape by zip code at the NOAA.gov site Jan 25 15:37:06 shows current temperature about 1/3 down on the right hand side. Also has text page option Jan 25 15:38:19 * mdklein_ grumbles Jan 25 15:38:27 it's too early for vendor calls Jan 25 15:38:28 FreeTim: there are lots of ways to get the weather. im not worried about that... i want the display to be like a widget/applet/dockelet Jan 25 15:39:11 but maybe just a not shitty free weather app is needed Jan 25 15:47:48 tlp: do you have any more details re: that seido mod? not really sure what you had to do Jan 25 15:49:33 seido mod? Jan 25 15:50:23 the 2800mAh battery is too big for my pre... with it, it looks like a brick Jan 25 15:50:44 seido mod? whats the point, does it allow the touchstone to work? Jan 25 15:50:53 yes Jan 25 15:51:01 that's the point Jan 25 15:51:07 ah Jan 25 15:51:41 destinal: in Terminus, if I type "if" then press sym+i, i get the a display of the tab comple options like tou would expect but if i make a forward gesture nothing happens, but if i type "ifc" then do a forward gesture it tab completes it like I would expect Jan 25 15:52:10 guy modded his seidio 2600mah cover to work with the touchstone Jan 25 15:52:30 destinal: are u sure all I need to send is int 9 or a \t? Jan 25 15:52:41 Kyusaku: ahh Jan 25 15:52:54 http://tlp.lickwid.net/2600SeidioTouchstoneMod.png Jan 25 15:53:01 i like my porta charger Jan 25 15:54:22 destinal: yeah. I didn't invent it; let me get a link to the forum post. Jan 25 15:55:03 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-accessories/218638-sucess-modded-seidio-2600-extended-battery-back-work-touchstone.html Jan 25 15:55:12 PuffTheMagic_: yeah, should be Jan 25 15:55:31 what does control+I do when you type that by hand? Jan 25 15:55:33 destinal: well it makes no sense that i cant get the tab comple options to show up with forward gesture Jan 25 15:55:42 basically, you gut a touchstone back very carefully and seal it into the other back somehow, then solder some longer rods or something so it can reach the contacts Jan 25 15:55:51 PuffTheMagic_: you have a control key, yeah? Jan 25 15:55:52 destinal: sym+i gives proper tab complete action always Jan 25 15:55:58 sym=ctrl Jan 25 15:56:08 and most of the ctrl shit seems to work Jan 25 15:56:12 ctrl+l dont Jan 25 15:56:15 i need to figure that out Jan 25 15:56:15 yeah that's int 9 Jan 25 15:56:22 it also dont work over novaterm Jan 25 15:56:23 or ssh Jan 25 15:56:27 but it works ojn my linux box Jan 25 15:56:29 what? Jan 25 15:56:42 hmmm it does work over novaterm Jan 25 15:56:43 hmm Jan 25 15:56:45 odd Jan 25 15:56:59 works in terminal also Jan 25 15:57:22 shit i need to learn to enable usbnet and devmode while the phone is doctoring so i dont have to waste time rebooting later Jan 25 15:57:47 if I ssh into my pre and try ctrl+l i just get a new line Jan 25 15:57:53 as if i pressed enter Jan 25 15:58:18 did Jan 25 15:58:22 err Jan 25 15:58:26 what's your TERM var? Jan 25 15:58:44 beacuse it works fine for me Jan 25 16:00:05 i have it set to xterm Jan 25 16:00:07 i believe Jan 25 16:00:11 i did before doctoring Jan 25 16:01:07 I ssh in and send two ^I 's and get Jan 25 16:01:07 root@castle:/var/home/root# Jan 25 16:01:07 ApplicationInstallerUtility dump_touchpanel_data_complete.sh lvmsar screen-4.0.2 Jan 25 16:01:17 and another twenty lines of possible completes Jan 25 16:01:39 yeah ctrl+i works fine Jan 25 16:01:49 its my forward gesture that dont work 100% correctly Jan 25 16:01:53 even though i am sending it 9 Jan 25 16:02:18 well control I is obviously 9 as well Jan 25 16:02:23 so something odd is up Jan 25 16:03:14 is this in git HEAD ? Jan 25 16:03:18 yeah Jan 25 16:03:20 its all there Jan 25 16:08:39 but newer than the latest in feed? Jan 25 16:08:51 so I should break out build tools.. Jan 25 16:10:14 destinal: ummm no Jan 25 16:10:19 i think latest is in preware Jan 25 16:10:32 yeah it is Jan 25 16:10:37 ah, okay, cool Jan 25 16:10:39 last commit is v0.0.4 tag Jan 25 16:10:42 which is in preware Jan 25 16:12:11 aha Jan 25 16:12:28 Trying three of them I get 00 09 00 09 00 09 Jan 25 16:12:35 so it's sending esc tab esc tab Jan 25 16:13:19 So I'm confused. Jan 25 16:13:28 looks like it thinks a forward gesture is a back then forward or something Jan 25 16:13:29 Conan is going to take over Jay's NEW show? Jan 25 16:13:40 dBsooner: have a glass of wine. If you are still confused, have another. Repeat until you are no longer confused. Jan 25 16:13:42 and the 10pm (Eastern) time slot? Jan 25 16:13:59 destinal: actually its registering a tap on the gesture area and then a forward gesture Jan 25 16:14:09 so i need to "catch" gesture tab and do nothing with it Jan 25 16:14:12 for now Jan 25 16:14:13 i think Jan 25 16:14:27 wait, tap gesture is trying to be esc? Jan 25 16:14:31 why would you do that? Jan 25 16:14:36 i didnt do that Jan 25 16:14:42 oh Jan 25 16:14:45 that is just what is happening Jan 25 16:14:56 *nods* Jan 25 16:14:59 tapping gesture area is unhandled Jan 25 16:15:09 destinal: on a side note, can an application enable advanced gestures? Jan 25 16:15:11 it should send you a keypress Jan 25 16:15:15 or is that a global only setting Jan 25 16:15:16 I forget which one Jan 25 16:15:27 destinal: well right now it should be nothing Jan 25 16:15:35 well the keypress you will get Jan 25 16:15:42 but you shouldn't be doing anything with it, yeah Jan 25 16:16:33 I used it like another toggle key to make another set of keys, and used the ert,dfg,xcv for arrow keys Jan 25 16:16:38 in terminal Jan 25 16:16:45 yeah i remember Jan 25 16:16:51 i just dont know exactly how i want to use it yet Jan 25 16:17:05 PuffTheMagic_: not sure on advanced gestures Jan 25 16:17:31 I would think it would be different in mojo vs native though anyway Jan 25 16:17:39 unless it's a service you can call Jan 25 16:18:03 well i wonder if advanced gestures would bring games and native apps more "key events" in the gesture area Jan 25 16:21:09 PuffTheMagic_: I imagine at very least you could call the service on the bus that the control panel turns on for advanced gestures Jan 25 16:22:10 but turn it on first and see if you get anything new / special when it's on Jan 25 16:23:01 I doubt the individual apps get anything special though I think it's just luna overall that uses it Jan 25 16:23:24 destinal: does sym+l reset the screen for you in Teminus? Jan 25 16:24:22 forgot to reinstall that after doctoring. *fires up Preware* Jan 25 16:24:37 no, it works like I'd expect, once does nothing, a second does the completion list Jan 25 16:24:52 but it draws strangely Jan 25 16:25:16 so typing netst<^I> gives me netstat but you can't see the word Jan 25 16:25:53 for that matter the last line of a terminal window is still redrawing stuff from other lines Jan 25 16:25:56 strange Jan 25 16:26:03 errrr Jan 25 16:26:06 i mean sym+L Jan 25 16:27:01 well, at a shell, it seems to send a clear, but the first line drawn (the prompt) doesn't get displayed, I have to hit enter to get another line Jan 25 16:27:56 hmmmmm Jan 25 16:28:03 and in nano it redraws but nano drawing is hosed in general Jan 25 16:28:16 i updated to 1.x and terminus dont show up any more Jan 25 16:28:28 i wonder if type:game is gone Jan 25 16:28:38 hmm preware aint there either Jan 25 16:28:56 wow... it wiped my apps Jan 25 16:28:57 wtf Jan 25 16:29:12 "it left the mobile hotspot updater" though Jan 25 16:29:28 it removed all non com.palm apps Jan 25 16:33:48 what wiped your apps hahaha Jan 25 16:34:30 Puffy: what wiped your apps? Jan 25 16:34:45 he updated to 1.(undisclosed) I believe Jan 25 16:35:03 Kyusaku: a webOS update, thanks Jan 25 16:35:50 PuffTheMagic_: did you have any app catalog apps on there? Jan 25 16:36:22 yeah those are there Jan 25 16:37:36 did they not get removed or were they reinstalled on update? Jan 25 16:43:39 * PuffTheMagic_ is off to class Jan 25 16:54:46 http://blog.broberts.com/nokia-n900-with-maemo-and-android-yes-please Jan 25 16:54:55 I guess we should follow suit with pre :) Jan 25 17:03:32 i am curious to see if activity in the channel will increase now that vzw has their palm devices out Jan 25 17:10:12 bpadalino|work: the question is, what kind of activity, tech support or dev activity? Jan 25 18:04:18 http://mobility.dell.com/AccessoriesDetails.aspx?cid=35693_e036222cd1034fe9a17c4f9981db0ecc&referringdomain=dellmobility&agent=&oflag=sfcart&zipcode=02324&refcode1=DMS_4444_000_PHONEDEALS&refcode2=&eid=&manufacturerid=16&productid=57917&accessoryid=58257&categoryid=0 Jan 25 18:04:22 if you're ooking for a touchstone Jan 25 18:04:24 now's the time to get it Jan 25 18:08:47 Anyone around ? I am trying to get the comand you would run in terminal to remove the patches preware "THINKS" are still installed...please? Jan 25 18:41:28 is there a way to run .patch files from webos quick install Jan 25 18:42:19 yes Jan 25 18:42:36 what version of quick install Jan 25 18:42:45 if it's not 2.96, upgrade Jan 25 18:43:44 2.96 Jan 25 18:44:52 oic nm Jan 25 18:51:11 Jmyadagod the emergency recovery program does that, and you would need to get the script out of the package or contact egaudet who wrote it Jan 25 18:58:31 anyone know if the webos quick install will work with the new web os doctor from palm Jan 25 18:59:50 yes. Jan 25 18:59:50 what new doctor? Jan 25 18:59:53 Verizon? Jan 25 19:00:00 yes Jan 25 19:00:06 it shouldn't really matter Jan 25 19:00:30 time will only tell, gotta get mine first in order to download Jan 25 19:00:32 lol Jan 25 19:00:37 Verizon doctor is probably same except for radiofirmware stuff Jan 25 19:00:39 requries a serial number Jan 25 19:01:11 always does unless you have the direct link. Jan 25 19:01:18 oh :( Jan 25 19:01:31 Once you have it, please post the direct link to the webos-internals wiki -- or private message it to me and I will post it. Jan 25 19:01:32 yeah would be great if we can get a direct link to the file to post on the wiki Jan 25 19:02:30 egaudet-wirc: needs to quit his day job and start working on AUPT full time. Jan 25 19:02:31 if its not up by tomorrow then i will submit Jan 25 19:05:01 Rick_work thanks i scrolled through my back logs because i he had told me before if anyone else wants to know it is : ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove *patches* Jan 25 19:05:38 sooo Jan 25 19:05:41 hello everyone Jan 25 19:06:28 alright all of to work Jan 25 19:06:30 ttyl Jan 25 19:08:31 did we flash the palm pre plus to sprint yet Jan 25 19:08:54 has anyone even joined from vzw yet ? Jan 25 19:10:37 yes Jan 25 19:10:41 two people so far. Jan 25 19:10:51 ventz in #webos and I think farms here. Jan 25 19:11:16 ah neat Jan 25 19:12:59 you'd have to change the ESN for a Pre Plus to really work on Sprint anyways Jan 25 19:13:42 Sprint is really particular on what you activate/try to activate on their service Jan 25 19:14:25 Wiki updated with link to Verizon doctor Jan 25 19:14:54 1351 pre. Jan 25 19:15:56 Rick_work, I don't understand the policy of linking to the doctors and not linking to other copyrighted code Jan 25 19:16:19 LINKING and POSTING are different. What would you have us link to? Jan 25 19:16:20 because Palm is hosting the files Jan 25 19:16:31 its linking to THEIR software Jan 25 19:16:36 (I suspect he's going to say "roms" Jan 25 19:17:41 and the difference is (as Kyusaku said) that the links to the doctor are links to the copyright holder's server, THEY posted those for download. So no harm no foul. If they wanted to require a serial number to get at them, they could provide the download without a direct link. They chose instead to provide a static link. No problem. Jan 25 19:17:55 that's a weak argument Jan 25 19:18:02 If electronic arts was to provide static links to gameboy roms on their homepage, we would link to them. Jan 25 19:18:18 not legally defensible Jan 25 19:18:36 spotter, that's an interesting statement. Got case law to point to? Jan 25 19:18:41 dmca Jan 25 19:18:49 just because encryption can be broken, doesn't mean it legal to Jan 25 19:19:04 i.e. just becaue a weak protection scheme can be broken, doesn't mean its legal Jan 25 19:19:10 Sorry spotter, I have a copy of that here, and I follow the cases. Again, got a case? Jan 25 19:19:50 hold on Jan 25 19:20:05 we're circumventing a click-through/serial number entry so you say it's breaking some scheme and therefore can be DMCA enforced ? Jan 25 19:20:09 http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/23/texas-court-says-dee.html Jan 25 19:20:26 put it this way, it doesn't bother me much Jan 25 19:21:11 ahh and it doesnt bother palm so Jan 25 19:21:13 move along Jan 25 19:21:13 lol Jan 25 19:21:43 in that case, its not about what's legal or not, its about what "bothers" palm Jan 25 19:21:51 and therefore shouldn't be cast in a "legal/illegal" light Jan 25 19:22:26 only argument I'm making is to be up front and honest Jan 25 19:22:26 interesting Jan 25 19:22:29 spotter, let me try it this way then, the anti-circumvention portion of the DCMA is quite clear and in regard to linking is best summarized here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Linking_to_infringing_content while I do not begin to claim that wikipedia is an authoritative source, that statement is, as far as I know, and I pay attention, accurate. Jan 25 19:22:52 Rick-home, that's different Jan 25 19:23:02 that's linking to infringing content Jan 25 19:23:08 this isn't "infringing" content Jan 25 19:23:22 this is deep linking Jan 25 19:23:24 same thing Jan 25 19:23:25 isnt it Jan 25 19:23:27 no Jan 25 19:23:29 Spotter, see the last sentence of the section. Jan 25 19:23:47 There have been no cases in the US where a website owner has been found liable for linking to copyrighted material outside of the above narrow circumstances. Jan 25 19:23:50 omg i hate this touchpad on this macbook pro Jan 25 19:23:50 why are there no acceleration controls in macos Jan 25 19:23:52 the last statement isn't true per link above Jan 25 19:24:15 I dont know if that case was overturned or not Jan 25 19:24:30 but at least at one point in time one person was considered liable Jan 25 19:24:55 But spotter, they were linking to INFRINGING CONTENT. the webos doctor is not infringing. Jan 25 19:25:01 no Jan 25 19:25:07 they were not linking to infringing content Jan 25 19:25:15 they were linking to private content Jan 25 19:25:21 that the owner put up Jan 25 19:25:27 he sued them for copyright infringement for linking to it Jan 25 19:25:29 and won Jan 25 19:25:38 now, it might have gotten overturned, I dont know Jan 25 19:25:55 "In an update to Xeni's post last month, Out-Law.com reports that the US District Court for the Northern District of Texas found a website owner guilty of copyright infringement for linking to an another website's audio file without permission" Jan 25 19:26:28 again, linking to the doctors doesn't really bother Jan 25 19:26:33 especially if it doesn't bother palm Jan 25 19:27:13 heck, I don't distribute copyrighted material myself (mobile hotspot is all over the place and I didn't give it to them) Jan 25 19:28:06 Well, in any event, the issue isn't legal, it's ethical. Jan 25 19:28:11 echoecho.me looks decent but no webos support yet Jan 25 19:28:47 hell did the last vba move skins into the photo album app? Jan 25 19:28:55 hey* Jan 25 19:29:03 Rod and I and the rest of the webos-core-team have agreed that deep-linking to a site is legit if the file itself isn't infringing by its very existance. (I.E., roms) Jan 25 19:29:35 you have to draw a line somewhere, that's where we drew it. :-) Jan 25 19:29:49 what about replacement roms for the pre? Jan 25 19:29:53 how do i get a terminal on macos Jan 25 19:29:54 not gameboy type roms Jan 25 19:30:05 i.e. if someone distributes a patched up doctor Jan 25 19:30:26 as is common in android/blackberry/winmo arenas Jan 25 19:30:48 as long as it doesn't infringe on copyright laws Jan 25 19:30:54 can I talk now? Jan 25 19:31:02 yes Jan 25 19:31:15 hey dtzwill Jan 25 19:31:26 but by definition any patched up doctor infringes on copyright laws Jan 25 19:31:27 egaudet we'll take it to pm Jan 25 19:32:02 did the last vba move the pics into the photo album application Jan 25 19:32:05 heck, one could strongly argue that patches as currently constructed violate copyright law (every patch includes lines of code belonging to old program) Jan 25 19:32:25 someone help me before i my brain explodes Jan 25 19:32:33 i need a terminal or i cant live Jan 25 19:32:40 I was just verifying my nick got group'd right so I could talk with the +R Jan 25 19:32:50 PuffTheMagic_ one second Jan 25 19:32:54 lol Jan 25 19:33:28 spotter, fair use Jan 25 19:33:38 Anyone notice any price drops on sprint pres b/c of plus being out? Jan 25 19:33:48 PuffTheMagic_ applications / utitlities /terminal Jan 25 19:33:50 no Jan 25 19:33:51 no Jan 25 19:33:58 Jmyadagod not yet Jan 25 19:34:04 79.99 is cheap alres Jan 25 19:34:07 ady Jan 25 19:34:13 egaudet_work, fair use would be a good argument, I'm not sure it fly though in the end Jan 25 19:34:14 79.99 for new or upgrade? Jan 25 19:34:21 but not an expert enough in fair use Jan 25 19:34:23 new Jan 25 19:34:30 on new contract Jan 25 19:34:38 Rick_work: omg thank you so much :D Jan 25 19:34:44 i would pay 80 for an upgrade not going to pay 150 though Jan 25 19:35:03 I don't see how it would not fly, patch context only has 5-6 lines of copyrighted code Jan 25 19:35:11 PuffTheMagic_ google is my friend. Jan 25 19:35:13 per hunk Jan 25 19:37:52 Rick_work: if you were pm'ing me, I'm not at home to see any pm's to egaudet until this evening Jan 25 19:38:03 I did not Jan 25 19:38:12 egaudet_work: does not work Jan 25 19:38:23 what doesn't work? Jan 25 19:40:17 odddly, verizon has had NO impact on the webos-internals site yet. It's a low-load day. Jan 25 19:40:29 So my preware doesn't think I have any patches installed. I KNOW I do, however, I still see the battery percentage. It says I only have 2 apps installed, radiotime and translator, both of which I just updated via the app catalog earlier. Any idea why this is? Jan 25 19:40:53 I wanted to remove a patch but now I can't. :/ Jan 25 19:41:16 SilverChaos: how did you install the patches Jan 25 19:41:23 preware. Jan 25 19:41:32 what have you done since Jan 25 19:41:38 partial/full erase? Jan 25 19:41:42 This just started today, after I updated those two apps via the catalog. Jan 25 19:41:49 that's all. Jan 25 19:42:10 PuffTheMagic was here earlier and he said all his apps were deleted Jan 25 19:42:27 The news comes at a critical point for the carrier, as it lacks a flagship phone after the failure of the Palm Pre, which was believed to drive the sales for Sprint and prevent customers from leaving the carrier for the iPhone or other competitors. Jan 25 19:42:27 SilverChaos: interesting Jan 25 19:42:30 let's check the status file Jan 25 19:42:34 http://www.htlounge.net/art/10834/sprint-to-get-an-android-%E2%80%9Csupersonic%E2%80%9D-with-wimax.html Jan 25 19:42:39 My apps are still here, patches are still here, but preware doesn't see them. Jan 25 19:42:41 can you pastebin me your /media/cryptofs/apss/usr/lib/ipkg/status file Jan 25 19:42:54 One moment. Jan 25 19:43:08 When I saw that I thought the problem was Puffy-specifc ... now that I see two people saying "my apps all disappeared!" this may not be an isolated incident ... Jan 25 19:43:14 PuffTheMagic_: are you still in that scenario (all apps deleted) ? Jan 25 19:43:27 nt4cats|work: it may be the status corruption issue Jan 25 19:43:31 of which we have ERU Jan 25 19:43:50 egaudet_work: yeah Jan 25 19:43:53 egaudet_work, that request just me me think Jan 25 19:44:00 PuffTheMagic_: are they only gone from preware but still have icons? Jan 25 19:44:05 it be cool if there was an app that let you display files Jan 25 19:44:09 egaudet_work: no ic ons Jan 25 19:44:11 so that one could easily copy/paste them Jan 25 19:44:19 useful for us that haven't bothered putting ssh on our pres Jan 25 19:44:25 to get debugging output out Jan 25 19:44:34 Ah, I can't open the status file here on my pre apparently, and I cantt access a computer at the moment. Jan 25 19:44:41 PuffTheMagic_: do you still have their applications dirs? /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications? Jan 25 19:44:43 though I guess terminal + cp + email attachment works too Jan 25 19:45:11 egaudet_work: everything besides com.palm stuff is gone Jan 25 19:45:16 egaudet_work: go to other chan Jan 25 19:45:47 Clarification: Preware doesn't think I have the patchesinstalled, they show up as not installed. I haven't tried installing any. they're still on my pre, I see them working. Jan 25 19:46:26 SilverChaos: you can run ERU to see if that fixes it. IF the issue is a corrupted status file, ERU will fix it Jan 25 19:46:39 install Emergency Reconstruction Utility via Preware Jan 25 19:46:40 Alright, one moment. Jan 25 19:46:52 is there a novaterm for mac? Jan 25 19:47:11 guess so Jan 25 19:47:11 :D Jan 25 19:47:54 PuffTheMagic_ is turning into a mac Jan 25 19:48:02 NEVER!!!!!!! Jan 25 19:48:05 i will resist Jan 25 19:48:09 gentoo is going on this asap Jan 25 19:50:03 egaudet_work: Yup, ERU fixed it, thanks a ton. Jan 25 19:50:09 np Jan 25 19:50:37 Jmyadagod wow that articles harsh "After the failure of the palm pre" ouch Jan 25 19:52:33 Rick_work : yea that hurt ......but hey i love my palm pre..... but i am waiting for that htc as a second phone Jan 25 19:53:36 is gonna be to big for me as a everday phone Jan 25 20:08:30 what is this? no home or end keys on a mac? Jan 25 20:09:48 page up, page down, or ctrl-up, ctrl-down Jan 25 20:09:59 * mickeyl using a Microsoft Natural Keyboard with a custom layout on his Macs Jan 25 20:10:04 it's bearable then ;) Jan 25 20:10:23 on a standard-apple-keyboard there are those keys Jan 25 20:10:25 my mac keyboard has home and end, weird Jan 25 20:15:57 PuffTheMagic_: ctrl+a ctrl+e for home/end? Jan 25 20:21:56 PuffTheMagic_: if you really don't like OSX, you can always just run Linux on it :) Jan 25 20:22:28 intel macs are really just PC's after all Jan 25 20:23:06 everything is a pc. Jan 25 20:23:17 their terminology is incorrect Jan 25 20:23:39 except servers and super computers Jan 25 20:23:39 gkatsev: I mean intel technology workstation. the world calls them PC's, you can rebel if you want Jan 25 20:24:24 destinal: yeah i know i can run Gentoo on it but i need to keep MacOS on it so that I can run LispWorks and matlab and shit Jan 25 20:24:32 maybe i will dual boot Jan 25 20:24:35 idk Jan 25 20:24:40 ah ok Jan 25 20:25:07 everything i have already runs linux/gentoo so i guess i could learn some macos/bsd Jan 25 20:25:17 if it dont kill me in the process Jan 25 20:25:44 destinal: do u have any idea what takes type:game apps so long to start? Jan 25 20:26:02 PuffTheMagic_: have you run any others? Jan 25 20:26:32 i thought i ran vba Jan 25 20:26:36 i cant remember if that was slow or not Jan 25 20:26:37 I've never had a type: game thing be as slow as terminus Jan 25 20:26:45 they usually take a half second Jan 25 20:26:55 well its instant from cli Jan 25 20:27:06 destinal: if you could spend some free time figuring out what is going on that would be nice Jan 25 20:27:06 sure but you already have an environment Jan 25 20:27:22 I need to try terminus again. The last time I tried it crashed the phone utterly. Jan 25 20:27:25 it could be seriously confused being started like a daemon Jan 25 20:27:51 i experienced the "slow" issue for a few hours once from cli too Jan 25 20:27:54 but it went away Jan 25 20:28:03 PuffTheMagic_: yeah it's definitely weird Jan 25 20:28:08 Rick_work: there still are random crashes Jan 25 20:28:10 destinal I still think we need to use a mojo app to display a fast splash screen and call the upstart service. I really truely think that would be better. But I've been overruled. Jan 25 20:28:11 * destinal will check it out tonight Jan 25 20:28:15 Rick_work: havent really done too much debugging yet Jan 25 20:28:38 Rick_work: we might have to for apps that need root access Jan 25 20:28:49 Rick_work: there are problems with the technique Jan 25 20:28:58 for example? Jan 25 20:29:24 destinal: the initial implementation was quick and half-baked i think we can come up with a better solution Jan 25 20:29:32 run it all in 3d Jan 25 20:29:49 Robi_: that dont even make sense Jan 25 20:30:07 quake fast Jan 25 20:30:08 PuffTheMagic_: There's really nothing wrong with type:game. try running commercial games or DOOM Jan 25 20:30:29 destinal commercial games get a splash screen up fast. Jan 25 20:30:32 destinal: right now now, but idk what Palm is gonna change with them Jan 25 20:30:41 so the time to load behind, is less important Jan 25 20:30:48 xplane for xample Jan 25 20:31:04 Rick_work: they get a splash screen up because they're executing code immediately Jan 25 20:31:14 if we have something that's going to be slow we need to have a loading screen as well Jan 25 20:31:46 inside the app rather than a mojo thing though IMO Jan 25 20:32:10 which is my point kind of. Jan 25 20:32:30 so the type-game app could point to a loading app, which then SPAWNS the real game? Jan 25 20:33:05 sure could, but why not put the loading stuff in the main binary? Jan 25 20:33:41 yea just make the FIRST thing the game does is load a splash screen Jan 25 20:33:56 no need for another app etc... just draw the splash Jan 25 20:34:20 it doesn't take any time to do that, and it will display immediately Jan 25 20:34:30 shoudl just make a webOS arcade app, and launch all webOS internals games from it and it's just basically a GUI for the CLI, game hooks immediately into the same SDL session *grins* that'll fix it! (ignore me I'm mostly being facetious) Jan 25 20:34:38 Touchstone Kit (puck+cover, no cable) for $29.87 (reg. $69). http://2.ly/hcb Jan 25 20:34:41 picked up 2 Jan 25 20:34:53 psykoz: that still doesn't fix the blank screen card of the new game for 10 seconds while loading Jan 25 20:35:45 Could hook a splash screen in via that app ;) Jan 25 20:35:51 *grins* Jan 25 20:35:53 psykoz: not really Jan 25 20:35:55 I'm being silly though, seriously! Jan 25 20:36:12 the issue though is any launcher app we make will be in one card, and what it launches will be in another card Jan 25 20:36:35 it's game-by-game issue Jan 25 20:36:43 no universal solution Jan 25 20:36:47 right. the problem is an individual app is slow without saying what it's doing Jan 25 20:36:51 solution: fix the app Jan 25 20:36:55 if a game has to load a lot of stuff like most do, it should display a loading/splash screen Jan 25 20:36:57 first Jan 25 20:37:44 * destinal wants a Pre Plus Jan 25 20:37:54 I want a Pre Plus but on Sprint =[ Jan 25 20:38:01 well of course Jan 25 20:38:09 I didn't say I wanted VZW :P Jan 25 20:39:16 I have a 25% sprint employee discount, I just have such a hardtime ever stomaching what my real cell phone bill would be like Jan 25 20:39:42 Then they put me on their sprint preferred thing recently, so now I get the $150 subsidy yearly instead of every 2 years Jan 25 20:42:15 psykoz: people have run original pre's on verizon, running a plus on sprint should be the same deal Jan 25 20:42:37 only you have to pay full upfront cost Jan 25 20:42:39 destinal, Sprint is not as open with non-sprint ESN's as Verizon is Jan 25 20:43:00 Verizon is truly open in that regard meaning they'll let you put a sprint phone (with some headache with their support team) into their database Jan 25 20:43:31 But doesn't sprint have an open device initiative thing? Jan 25 20:43:48 I've never heard of them saying such Jan 25 20:44:09 However any thing sprint has done in the past 2 years I'm not really up to date with either Jan 25 20:44:32 http://newsreleases.sprint.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=127149&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=1310749&highlight= Jan 25 20:44:45 appears you are correct in that they've certified 300 third party devices on their network Jan 25 20:45:17 hmmm, most of them seem to be data rather than phones though Jan 25 20:45:22 Nod Jan 25 20:48:36 PreWare has told me to install the obsolote virtual keyboard twice in the last few days. I'm assuming that EG is updating things ... Jan 25 20:50:42 does anyone know if any of the enterprise wifi stuff works on the pre? Jan 25 20:50:54 I fixed the OVK, kind of screwed it up, remove it if you have it installed Jan 25 20:50:58 it should never stay as installed Jan 25 20:55:42 AUPT out yet? Jan 25 20:56:22 egaudet_work: It doesn't show as installed, but I've been asked to update it upon running preware twice in the last two or three days. Maybe the 'update' that I just did removed it (as it should have). Jan 25 20:56:46 freenode is laggy today Jan 25 20:56:57 Robi_: do all of your patches show up as needing an update? Jan 25 20:57:16 they will when it's released, HOPEFULLY tonight or tomorrow Jan 25 20:57:39 nt4cats|work: yea the newest one removes it on install Jan 25 20:57:48 the old one didn't (which is why you had it installed and thus saw update for it) Jan 25 21:09:49 egaudet_work: no just 2 Jan 25 21:12:00 hmm Jan 25 21:18:14 so, do we dare take off the +R, or should we wait a week for ircd-seven and turn it off then (when the interprotocol spam will be totally dead) Jan 25 21:28:48 destinal: i say try. Jan 25 21:29:03 destinal: LOL.. I used to run a 8 server IRC network.. "AcidIllusion.net" Jan 25 21:29:11 I ran UnrealIRCd Jan 25 21:31:06 what's the location of the messaging db palm uses for texts? I haven't played with it in a while and forgot where it is. Jan 25 21:39:54 HattCzech, it is /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 Jan 25 21:40:18 specifically messageText from com_palm_pim_FolderEntry Jan 25 21:40:47 awesome. thanks! Jan 25 21:41:17 np, what are you planning? :) Jan 25 21:42:35 just trying to search my previous texts Jan 25 21:43:21 ah kk, good luck Jan 25 21:44:37 thanks again Jan 25 21:51:40 I solved the terminus slow-loading (kinda) Jan 25 21:52:14 oh? Jan 25 21:52:55 destinal: take it off then if problems persist it's easy to reinstate Jan 25 21:53:45 yeah... basically fontconfig was generating a cache every load because $HOME is / and it's read-only filesytem... I created a shell script wrapper to set home somewhere writeable... it's slow first load, but instant on future loads Jan 25 22:03:57 mdklein_ can we set $HOME to the app's directory? Jan 25 22:04:31 I imagine Jan 25 22:04:41 ~seen AnOutsider Jan 25 22:04:45 anoutsider was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 9d 4h 28m 43s ago, saying: 'which some (raise hand) beleive is better than vi :)'. Jan 25 22:05:13 hrm Jan 25 22:05:15 maybe not Jan 25 22:05:25 let me check soemthing Jan 25 22:06:08 That might be a problem if type: game is used Jan 25 22:06:39 probably best to modify the code to use something other htan $HOME for determining app dir Jan 25 22:07:19 /tmp too volatile? Jan 25 22:07:28 yes Jan 25 22:07:32 /tmp is RAM Jan 25 22:09:51 I did /var/cache Jan 25 22:11:07 ~seen firestrider Jan 25 22:11:09 firestrider was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 2h 36m 39s ago, saying: 'on new contract'. Jan 25 22:22:25 mdklein_: reasonable Jan 25 22:28:01 hmm i want 1.4 now :P Jan 25 22:28:10 does anybody know what jar file provides the com.palm.keys service? Jan 25 22:29:39 with the pre "there's a patch for that" Jan 25 22:40:09 en0x: I'd be happy to have flash now and 1.4 in a few weeks Jan 25 22:40:49 :> Jan 25 22:41:04 big on flash, huh ? Jan 25 22:41:26 i want the speed/battery improvements Jan 25 22:48:46 ~seen templarian Jan 25 22:48:49 templarian was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-watercooler, 1h 4m 11s ago, saying: 'They are all like is this possible. Or this or this or this.'. Jan 25 22:51:32 speed/battery are good reasons to want it Jan 25 23:05:08 morning. Jan 25 23:05:14 evening. Jan 25 23:05:43 afternoon Jan 25 23:12:48 rwhitby: mornin sir.. if you are still here and got a quick sec, I sent you a pm. Jan 25 23:16:07 is there anyplace on the pre that is writable by default when the phone boots Jan 25 23:16:31 /tmp Jan 25 23:16:35 :D Jan 25 23:16:42 /media/internal Jan 25 23:16:48 /media/cryptofs Jan 25 23:17:20 no /tmp is is Jan 25 23:18:32 ... Jan 25 23:24:39 Uni wifi too weak here Jan 25 23:25:08 has anyone booted a pre with a high kernel version then 2.6.24? Jan 25 23:25:16 higher* Jan 25 23:34:56 InSearchOf: yeah 2.6.24.7 ;) Jan 25 23:36:48 PuffTheMagic: any more news on a gles_sdl engine since yesterday? Jan 25 23:36:59 zsoc: no Jan 25 23:37:11 PuffTheMagic: kk Jan 25 23:37:52 Is there confirmed dev mode on a verizon pre/pixi plus? Jan 25 23:38:39 it runs the same system image I think Jan 25 23:39:13 with a carrier customizations package for verizon Jan 25 23:39:44 not sure where I heard that though and it may have changed Jan 25 23:40:06 kk then Jan 25 23:40:16 what is this xorg system tools stuff? Jan 25 23:43:53 PuffTheMagic, lol... that is what I was thinking Jan 25 23:50:21 We need to load infobot up with commonly asked question answers and commonly used file/directory/database locations (and utility syntax) Jan 25 23:51:20 that would be awesome Jan 25 23:54:41 location of text database... location of postinst scripts... how to manually install (and/or uninstall) using ipkg... short instructions to install.preware.org for newbies... etc Jan 26 00:01:50 do you think we will ever hit a point where all a person has is input and output devices (no cpu, memory, or hard disk) connected to a network with the operating system on the server Jan 26 00:03:36 you mean like a thin client ? Jan 26 00:03:44 like they had back in the 70's? Jan 26 00:04:05 ya but did thin clients have cpus? Jan 26 00:04:38 not like a terminal mainframe thing Jan 26 00:05:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client Jan 26 00:06:46 sorry to double "post?"... but I got disconnected... Jan 26 00:06:47 one last question, uboot, has anyone successfully flashed an custom uboot.bin? Jan 26 00:07:57 you want a custom kernel ? Jan 26 00:08:02 or custom bootloader too ? Jan 26 00:08:28 well both... Jan 26 00:09:19 were terminals basically a display attached to a network to the server? Jan 26 00:09:21 i don't think anyone has tried reflashing the bootloader, but i think PuffTheMagic may have tried to put a custom kernel on there .. check the wiki for custom kernel stuff ? Jan 26 00:09:21 I'm trying to reverse engineer the boot sequence, uboot then bootie or bootie then uboot... Jan 26 00:09:34 no uboot .. the name of the file is just uboot .. Jan 26 00:09:41 it's all bootie all the way Jan 26 00:09:42 i didnt reflash the bootloader Jan 26 00:09:45 but i've used uboot Jan 26 00:09:53 i copied that to ram or whatever Jan 26 00:10:03 didnt get very far cause the fb dont get initialized Jan 26 00:10:16 bootie is pretty nice though Jan 26 00:10:20 I'm fine with the kernel, I have the patches and all in my builder... just trying to figure out the bootloader Jan 26 00:10:31 if so ya lets go back to those days ... it would be much more efficient if computing resources were centrallized Jan 26 00:11:20 hmmm, so bootie. Alright cool. I will have to look into that. Jan 26 00:12:15 InSearchOf: there is definitely a place in flash that you don't want to delete .. some table of calibration values that is written twice in the flash .. Jan 26 00:13:30 written twice to nand? Jan 26 00:13:34 yeah Jan 26 00:13:49 ok... these done have rom and nand? Jan 26 00:14:06 dont* Jan 26 00:14:55 destinal: see last terminus commit for my "slow loading" fix :D Jan 26 00:14:58 i am not sure if the bootblock is write protected in the nand, but i don't think there is any separate rom area Jan 26 00:15:15 PuffTheMagic: finally ;) how come you didn't find that bug yourself? xD Jan 26 00:15:34 zsoc: well i had an idea that it was env related Jan 26 00:15:44 but wasnt sure what it is Jan 26 00:16:00 basically luna wipes out the env Jan 26 00:16:05 i dont think it sets anything Jan 26 00:16:20 so i had to do a putenv("HOME=....."); Jan 26 00:16:31 and now it starts instantly Jan 26 00:16:45 that's prolly a dangerous name for an environmental variable... Jan 26 00:16:55 why? Jan 26 00:17:26 next I need to figure out if bootie has builtin support to read from internal storage (mmcblk) Jan 26 00:17:41 zsoc: its hardcoded in /etc/passwd Jan 26 00:17:46 PuffTheMagic: ah Jan 26 00:17:48 zsoc: i get th homedir from that Jan 26 00:17:52 then set the env var accordingly Jan 26 00:18:01 and i chdir into the homedir :D Jan 26 00:18:04 InSearchOf: i believe it does .. if you hold the volume up button while powering on, you can connect using novaterm .. Jan 26 00:18:08 and play around with bootie Jan 26 00:18:50 i believe it understands ext2 Jan 26 00:19:01 but see bootie if bootting from nand... not mmcblk Jan 26 00:19:03 InSearchOf: not to defalte your bubble, but many people have entered this channel (including my self) with high expecations of running custom kernels but its just not that easy Jan 26 00:19:12 InSearchOf: if you think you are gonna run an upstream kernel good luck Jan 26 00:19:14 the ramfs is on nand correct Jan 26 00:19:42 im sorta surprised they use ext* instead of the one of the flash oriented fses Jan 26 00:20:16 like ubifs which I use on all my other dev boards :D Jan 26 00:21:07 of jffs2 which I used before... ubifs Jan 26 00:21:09 or* Jan 26 00:21:18 terminus 0.0.5 is in preware with no slow loading issues :D Jan 26 00:22:09 try just chdir no putenv Jan 26 00:22:44 .. /bin/login should give HOME Jan 26 00:23:10 or login shell it calls Jan 26 00:25:47 ok so there is no nand Jan 26 00:27:10 just the mmc block device. That is why you cant use a flash based file system. (ex, ubifs, yaffs2, jffs2) Jan 26 00:29:07 ok Jan 26 00:36:27 puff :terminus crash when carded. we need autopause maybe Jan 26 00:39:37 destinal-wirc: u on 1.4 or 1.3.5? Jan 26 00:39:52 and are you using 0.0.5? Jan 26 00:42:12 135 w 005 ya Jan 26 00:43:47 destinal-wirc: it didnt do that before Jan 26 00:44:41 card it and switch around apps Jan 26 00:47:04 destinal-wirc: so i commited a fix to ignore the gesture tap that comes before the forward gesture and when i go to test it i get the slow load issue agin Jan 26 00:47:05 :/ Jan 26 00:47:33 huh Jan 26 00:48:13 I guess we could strace Jan 26 00:48:36 http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1264460109094.gif Jan 26 00:50:30 yeah, windows hack frw Jan 26 00:50:41 silly printer drivers Jan 26 00:52:52 some kind of spooler exploit? hard to see on pre Jan 26 00:57:46 ft Jan 26 01:00:39 grrrrrrr Jan 26 01:02:08 would it be possible to make a patch that adds a hotkey to restart luna? Similar to the opt + sym + r Jan 26 01:02:16 dtzWill: http://images.precentral.net/sites/precentral.net/files/articleimages/Dieter%20Bohn/2010/01/palm-assassins-creed.png Jan 26 01:02:32 I wonder how similar (code wise) that virtual joystick is to yours... :> Jan 26 01:02:56 ird: install lunamanager Jan 26 01:02:59 zsoc: hahaha. i can hardly take credit for the virtual joystick idea xD Jan 26 01:03:09 zsoc: but there's assassin's creed for the pre?? haha kinda cool Jan 26 01:03:35 dtzWill: apparently just happened on app-catalog... any way, i guess it was more of a joke... but the git web just chills out there for all to see lol Jan 26 01:04:19 zsoc: yes it does. and if they're stealing code that's definitely illegal... but idk that we can tell, etc--and i don't know it's anything that we can claim is unique/special enough that it being similar is a clue Jan 26 01:04:36 zsoc: but lol--at least it's confirmation that professional game designers are doing the same things :) Jan 26 01:04:50 That was more of what i was getting at :D Jan 26 01:05:24 PuffTheMagic: I mean for situations where luna freezes and it is still possible to restart the phone via the hotkey. It would be more convenient just to restart luna rather than a full reboot. Jan 26 01:05:45 when does luna freeze and not restart it self after a dump? Jan 26 01:06:33 PuffTheMagic: It happened to me just a few minutes ago. It sat for.. 5 minutes at least. Jan 26 01:06:55 I picked it up and rebooted it via opt + sym + r Jan 26 01:07:29 destinal-wirc: also... if i set my TERM to xterm in /etc/profile top looks "mostly correct" on terminus but if i leave TERM at vt100 it looked f'd Jan 26 01:10:09 heh Assassin's Creed hits webOS http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Precentralnet/~3/ADUWHg4HNiY/assassins-creed-hits-webos Jan 26 01:10:36 PuffTheMagic: set it to linux and se what happens Jan 26 01:14:08 Robi_: linux also work mostly Jan 26 01:17:57 why is there no way for users to create accounts on trac Jan 26 01:18:04 what good is this if people cant create tickets Jan 26 01:30:26 anyone else having a problem with disappearing alarms? Jan 26 01:40:29 howdy all Jan 26 01:43:53 ~~~~ Jan 26 01:43:54 ARGH!!! STOP IT jacques!!! Jan 26 01:46:41 morning Jan 26 01:47:42 hi jacques Jan 26 01:52:20 how's it going zsoc and ird ? I've been kinda out of it for a week visiting family Jan 26 01:52:32 I never have any free time when I do that :-\ Jan 26 01:54:33 jacques: it's been.. going Jan 26 01:58:40 my clock alarms are behaving ... strangely Jan 26 02:00:44 palm should setup a bugzilla for webos Jan 26 02:07:43 ~seen xcomp Jan 26 02:07:45 xcomp is currently on #webos-internals (7h 33m 41s), last said: 'yeah, not to mention the utter offtopicness of it'. Jan 26 02:27:03 assasins creed woot Jan 26 02:29:22 any good? Jan 26 02:29:32 I saw it on the app catalog Jan 26 02:30:00 dont know yet lol dont got 6.99 i bought Need for speed already i reached my app limit for the month Jan 26 02:31:20 i prolly will get soon though Jan 26 02:33:52 ooh Assassins Creed ;) Jan 26 02:34:44 hmm looks like I'm going to have to get the vkb in the app cat. Jan 26 02:36:35 free? Jan 26 02:36:40 egaudet-wirc: also, why? Jan 26 02:36:49 one for $4.99 and one for $5.99 Jan 26 02:37:37 what would be the difference? Jan 26 02:38:08 of what? Jan 26 02:38:33 4.99 5.99? Jan 26 02:38:54 oh those aren't mine they are recent in app cat though Jan 26 02:40:28 are any of them over top of card or are they all copy and paste kind? Jan 26 02:41:27 to clipboard. separate apps all that can be done in app cat Jan 26 02:41:44 oic Jan 26 02:49:27 Can anyone help me with devbian chrooting for the nintendo emulator install Jan 26 02:51:57 what do u need to know? Jan 26 02:53:03 Well all was going smoothly, i had the image on the pre, it was mounted, updating a couple things. I lost connection with putty somehow and couldn't get back to where i left off. I assume the pre kept going since it never lost it's wifi connection Jan 26 02:53:11 ghostinator: you could wait for nes emulation in a card? or fuss with vba in the meantime? gbc is a kickin' platform ;) Jan 26 02:53:59 i have vba on my pre.. i wasn't much of a gameboy kid, i was too poor. nes for many years Jan 26 02:55:15 ghostinator: are you having problems getting back into the chroot? Jan 26 02:56:07 i think i just did actually, let me check Jan 26 02:57:08 i believe so, apt-get works now Jan 26 02:57:20 yeah, just continue where you left off Jan 26 02:58:29 i cant remember for sure but when i did it i think i had to do apt update...i think , it was a while ago **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 26 02:59:56 2010