**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 29 02:59:56 2010 Jan 29 03:13:56 whats good Jan 29 03:18:05 dBsooner: what did we think we knew? Jan 29 03:19:03 dBsooner: I do think it's kind of harsh to lmgtfy someone something with something they couldn't have known to search for Jan 29 03:19:19 I just love lmgtfy Jan 29 03:19:22 :P Jan 29 03:20:00 there is a backend to it, where you can see what people are posting Jan 29 03:20:21 http://live.lmgtfy.com/ Jan 29 03:22:11 oc80z: ok, i have seen both chinese and korean lol Jan 29 03:22:30 and japanese katakana for what i think is 'toronto' Jan 29 03:22:41 lol Jan 29 03:22:47 someong googled MP3 to flac Jan 29 03:22:52 "?:.l;p'[ Jan 29 03:23:09 yep Jan 29 03:23:29 like, wait, I want those bits back Jan 29 03:23:36 haha Jan 29 03:23:38 yep Jan 29 03:24:03 ..back to when the king took flight Jan 29 03:24:13 .fr rev Jan 29 03:43:55 So it's always cool when co-workers get a new pixi or pre and start telling me about preware :) Jan 29 03:44:14 really? they're telling you about it ? Jan 29 03:44:22 i have yet to meet anyone at work who has a pre or pixi Jan 29 03:44:50 I have like 5 people on my floor in my building who do Jan 29 03:45:04 but as I said the other day, I think it's contagious Jan 29 03:45:21 interesting Jan 29 03:46:38 destinal-home: I had 5 people say "hey did you see doom" to me at work Jan 29 03:46:45 zsoc: hahaha Jan 29 03:46:47 awesome Jan 29 03:46:50 i just kind of laughed, not even sure what to say to that Jan 29 03:47:05 I usually just reply like, yeah, that's cool! Jan 29 03:47:09 :P Jan 29 03:47:09 people are always telling me about this webos-internals update or that preware update Jan 29 03:47:09 zsoc, nice Jan 29 03:47:24 i'm like "yeah that's interesting". Jan 29 03:47:31 haha Jan 29 03:47:48 I mean what's the other answer? "I was around while the idea was being formulated and I do general user support on the subject in my spare time" Jan 29 03:48:26 zsoc: you should really take more credit for the doom one though :) Jan 29 03:49:00 destinal-home: you actually did all the brainstorming, although i'll admit i did actually go "do something" ha, but you told me it would work Jan 29 03:49:43 zsoc: I'll admit, a lot of cool things have been kicked off by my brainstorming but actually putting ideas into action is a big thing Jan 29 03:49:50 and usually others do that :P Jan 29 03:51:33 ideas are low-effort. Jan 29 03:51:36 usually Jan 29 03:51:43 no Jan 29 03:51:50 mimicry is low effort Jan 29 03:52:05 memorization is low effort Jan 29 03:53:58 whats up guys Jan 29 03:54:00 speaking of ideas, I think I have all the pieces needed to do real dual boot (other linuxes included), but, unfortunately it requires modifying partition1, "nvram area", which should cause you to go running and screaming. Jan 29 03:54:05 or at least making a backup Jan 29 03:55:56 AAAAHAhhhhhhhrrrrrgggggg [[[runs from room ]]] Jan 29 03:56:19 rick-home: lol Jan 29 03:56:20 destinal-home: that's bricking territory no? or is that partition2? Jan 29 03:56:26 well, yes and no Jan 29 03:56:45 you can't brick a pre Jan 29 03:56:49 short of hardware damage Jan 29 03:56:58 dbsooner: ping Jan 29 03:57:11 destinal-home: er... i thought there were very low level software areas that corruption would destroy? Jan 29 03:57:12 sslow: bigger screenshots Jan 29 03:57:19 zsoc: nope, not really Jan 29 03:57:43 zsoc: bootie is on flash disk but you can also boot it via USB (OMAP has a specific function for that) Jan 29 03:57:44 sslow: and your transluscent top bar scrim, does it REQUIRE a different patch? Jan 29 03:57:55 destinal-home: ah ok, i'm on board then Jan 29 03:57:59 zsoc: wait first Jan 29 03:58:03 zsoc: there's bad news Jan 29 03:58:43 zsoc: partition1, referred to as "nvram area" because it serves a similar function to nvram on most mobile devices is really important to your handheld mobile computer actually being a phone Jan 29 03:58:47 dbsooner:no it work but is not compatible w/ any battery patch Jan 29 03:59:07 sslow: ok, so it is a standalone. Jan 29 03:59:16 yes Jan 29 03:59:18 zsoc: it includes MEID / IMEI and calibration data for accelerometers and batteries and just lots of stuff Jan 29 03:59:23 sslow: ok Jan 29 03:59:24 got it Jan 29 03:59:29 sslow: now gimme bigger screenshots Jan 29 03:59:58 gimme a couple of min Jan 29 04:00:05 zsoc: we can make a utility to totally build a device from blank flash disk, but without the tokens stored there it won't be the same Jan 29 04:00:07 destinal-home: can we backit up and restore it? Jan 29 04:00:09 minutes Jan 29 04:00:16 jacques: yes, we can indeed Jan 29 04:00:27 ok Jan 29 04:00:46 quick yes/no? google maps pulling speed information from my Pre GPS.. does it still do it while the phone is locked (but app open)? Jan 29 04:01:16 maybe Jan 29 04:01:40 when i unlock, the app takes a while to update/reposition itself.. and i want to send to google but screen keep slocking Jan 29 04:02:15 I was wondering.. Jan 29 04:02:29 Would SNES emulation be feasable? Jan 29 04:02:35 Or would it be too slow? Jan 29 04:03:13 ird: snes is easier than gba, in theory Jan 29 04:03:32 ird: they are working on it for openpandora using the GPU Jan 29 04:04:06 awesome :D Jan 29 04:04:31 ird: the nokia N900 has same CPU, runs well apparently. I'd like to port their emulator actually Jan 29 04:04:39 but it would need dehildonizing Jan 29 04:05:02 it's like DrNokSnes or something Jan 29 04:05:13 Your search - dehildonizing - did not match any documents. Jan 29 04:05:19 :p Jan 29 04:05:30 Since the Pre Plus has the double the ram, does it really make that much of a difference guys? Jan 29 04:05:41 sup_: you can run more apps Jan 29 04:05:52 it makes all the difference in the amount of ram in the device Jan 29 04:06:14 I'd rather see double the cpu :p Jan 29 04:06:15 100% difference in amount of RAM Jan 29 04:06:26 dbsooner: launcher black font http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll263/2sslow/photos-temp-0jpg-33.jpg translucent top bar http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll263/2sslow/photos-temp-0jpg-30.jpg Jan 29 04:06:28 Does more ram speed up the device? Jan 29 04:06:31 egaudet: where the hell did you go? Jan 29 04:06:34 thanks sslow! Jan 29 04:06:41 sup_: not really. Jan 29 04:06:50 sup_: only if the device is RAM constrained Jan 29 04:06:55 dbsooner: thank you Jan 29 04:07:08 I see, So it basically helps running more things at one. Jan 29 04:07:12 sslow: I am just waiting on egaudet before I push off this group of patches Jan 29 04:07:21 What are the maximum apps a Pre could run if its fully optimized? Jan 29 04:07:30 dBsooner: Why did I get a patches email? Jan 29 04:07:37 Abyssul: ignore it Jan 29 04:07:39 dbsoonre: no problem here I know your busy Jan 29 04:07:41 sup_: Give or take 15 Jan 29 04:07:52 dbsooner: no problem here I know your busy Jan 29 04:08:03 dBsooner: We need a download count for patches :p Jan 29 04:08:03 sup_: http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-plus-vs-palm-pre-multitasking-mayhem Jan 29 04:08:07 So if 15 is the Max it could run? Jan 29 04:08:33 Ird, I find it hard to believe that double the ram has such a HUGE improvement, I mean, 10-15 compared to 50+? Jan 29 04:08:40 Software has to have something to do with this, do you agree? Jan 29 04:08:51 If the Pre plus could run 50 so smoothly (with some lag) Jan 29 04:09:05 shouldnt the pre comfortably run at least HALF. which would be 25 Jan 29 04:09:06 I don't think you could run 50 apps that were actually doing something. Jan 29 04:09:09 Most of his were just webpages. Jan 29 04:09:11 RAM issue, theres probably little that software could do Jan 29 04:09:27 Why would you run more than 10 apps at once anyways Jan 29 04:09:33 Exactly. Jan 29 04:09:43 I only run 3 or 4 at most. Jan 29 04:09:44 Abyssul, So the pre could comfortably run 10 apps right? Jan 29 04:09:44 i want to run 10 instances of need for speed Jan 29 04:09:48 sup_: remember the OS also uses RAM Jan 29 04:09:54 sup_: Depends what programs Jan 29 04:10:01 bpadalino: what about NFS and Xplane at the same time! Jan 29 04:10:04 How many do you comfortably run? Jan 29 04:10:17 ird: I think that could be done Jan 29 04:10:27 But pointless :p Jan 29 04:10:27 sup_: I run no more than 5 at a time Jan 29 04:10:28 it would be amusing if they both didn't pause .. and you tried controlling both at the same time Jan 29 04:10:42 let's say the OS uses 128MiB RAM, leaving 128 MiB for apps, (in a 256MiB device) on a 512MiB device, there would be 384 MiB for apps - 3x as much Jan 29 04:10:42 Split screen. Jan 29 04:10:47 Abyssul, does it lag when you run 5? Jan 29 04:10:51 or it runs smooth? Jan 29 04:10:58 sup_: Pretty smooth Jan 29 04:11:11 nice. Jan 29 04:11:16 Does good until the memory leaks kick in Jan 29 04:11:24 but that will happen to any Pre Jan 29 04:11:44 nice. Jan 29 04:11:50 I just ordered a German pre Jan 29 04:11:55 so I am quite excited. Jan 29 04:11:56 ird: search hildonize and think the reverse Jan 29 04:12:44 sup_: I felt pretty thrilled when I was playing Quake, listening to Pandora, and texting at the same time Jan 29 04:13:02 Especially with the advanced gestures, it was so elegant Jan 29 04:14:37 destinal-home: way ahead of you :D Jan 29 04:16:30 shouldn't it be "de-hildon" ? Jan 29 04:16:46 the app is already hildonized Jan 29 04:16:51 Is the Pre as powerful as the N900? Jan 29 04:17:04 ize == apply, de == remove Jan 29 04:17:16 I found out how to change the default search engine for the browser Jan 29 04:17:20 jacques: is that like irregardless? :p Jan 29 04:18:23 zsoc: quite, indeed Jan 29 04:19:06 How many of you guys here are developers? Jan 29 04:19:48 sup_: I suppose all of the ones with the +'s at least? Jan 29 04:20:03 developers developers developers developers Jan 29 04:20:09 * destinal-home ducks Jan 29 04:20:18 RUN Jan 29 04:20:33 I know there is a patch to change QWERTZ to QWERTY however, can I physically change it? any advice? Jan 29 04:20:34 * destinal-home narrowly dodges a flying chair Jan 29 04:20:34 although calling _some_ of us developers is really ... a stretch Jan 29 04:20:47 02901001558000106547 Jan 29 04:20:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE Jan 29 04:20:55 sup_: Indeed. Jan 29 04:21:12 sup_: I believe that has to do with Meta-doctor Jan 29 04:21:40 sup_: I think you can physically _swap_ it with a keyboard from a pre, but I don't know if anyone has proved it yet. Jan 29 04:21:49 I know rod was going to try Jan 29 04:22:23 and for good measure, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc&NR=1 Jan 29 04:24:12 xcomp: WTF is this!? Jan 29 04:24:21 A little girl screaming? Jan 29 04:25:40 aww, I thought it was expedite running on gles Jan 29 04:25:54 heheheh Jan 29 04:27:31 doobie doobie doo **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 29 04:33:46 2010 Jan 29 04:35:56 haaay Jan 29 04:36:33 hows it goin Jan 29 04:37:18 dtzWill: uh, so, I compiled snes9x for ARM, it didn't run full speed or have sound and I think a different emulator (drnoksnes) will run significanly faster. Jan 29 04:38:23 dtzWill: I can put up what I have in nonworking but I think we'd be going down the wrong path throwing too much time into it Jan 29 04:39:07 I could be wrong, of course Jan 29 04:39:45 destinal-home: drnoksnes looked like the most likely candidate when i was giving it a look a while back Jan 29 04:39:57 it just needs dehildonizing I imagine Jan 29 04:40:07 ok ... it builds now Jan 29 04:40:17 dammit I need a faster cpu Jan 29 04:40:59 xcomp: ftw Jan 29 04:41:25 yeah, I think I can safely say we won't be distributing GLES headers Jan 29 04:41:41 just tell people how to get them Jan 29 04:42:06 xcomp: errr why's that? Jan 29 04:42:13 dtzWill: because they're not open source Jan 29 04:42:32 xcomp: oh. well that's a good reason :). Jan 29 04:42:34 err... wait a minute Jan 29 04:42:35 xcomp: can the stager download them? Jan 29 04:42:35 what are they licensed under? Jan 29 04:43:02 xcomp: where _are_ these headers from? haha. you mean the egl stuff? (B/c the gles headers themselves are definitely open from khronos, right?) Jan 29 04:43:09 it IS open source -SGI license Jan 29 04:43:11 sweet Jan 29 04:43:15 er, but can distribute binaries compiled against non opensource headers? no? Jan 29 04:43:16 destinal-home: what's (de-)hildonizing? Jan 29 04:43:28 xcomp: yeah I said sgi :p Jan 29 04:43:35 we'll distribute them, I take it back Jan 29 04:43:53 the EULA when I downloaded the SDK indicated otherwise Jan 29 04:44:02 but the headers themselves contain an SGI license so we're good Jan 29 04:44:14 xcomp: sgi is gpl compartible? Jan 29 04:44:22 i believe so Jan 29 04:44:22 * zsoc makes up words Jan 29 04:44:28 wooo, scotch Jan 29 04:46:38 so I had come up with an awesome idea this morning while I was tired... but then I slept... and forgot it... Jan 29 04:46:51 hopefully I will remember it again at some point before all of you go to sleep Jan 29 04:47:36 cryptk|work: we can grade the perspective of your potential idea based on your passed performance of successful ideas Jan 29 04:47:41 btw, dtzWill after playing Assassins Creed some more... I really think they would have been better off by just ripping off your joystick... Jan 29 04:47:58 zsoc: I did come up with an idea everyone liked the other day Jan 29 04:48:07 how does an app get from cross-compile.git to an ipkg ? is there any automated way of doing that ? is that what the autobuilder does ? Jan 29 04:48:11 argh... SDL_opengles.h does not play nice with gl2.h Jan 29 04:48:20 cryptk|work: Well then, we're off to a good start :> try hypnosis? Jan 29 04:48:32 having the e-mail that preware opens when you click on a developers name have some pre-filled info... like WebOS version, installed version of the app and whatnot Jan 29 04:48:36 xcomp: in what way? they should be _mostly_ interchangeable Jan 29 04:48:53 as in you can't include them both simultaneously Jan 29 04:49:50 btw, is there a reason that you can't upgrade to beta versions of preware from within preware? Jan 29 04:50:08 is it to keep the average user from running the betas? Jan 29 04:50:25 cryptk|work: no, it's to stop the world from ending Jan 29 04:50:30 haha Jan 29 04:50:45 a better answer would have been "because you touch yourself at night" Jan 29 04:50:54 that is a good response to all questions actually Jan 29 04:51:30 cryptk|work: who does that at night? i never understood that Jan 29 04:51:37 also, scotch Jan 29 04:51:38 hahaha Jan 29 04:51:57 scotch is a good answer to not just all questions... but it is also a good answer to things that don't even need answers Jan 29 04:52:13 cryptk|work: and technically preware _is_ beta, so i assume you're referring to alpha versions Jan 29 04:52:18 yeah Jan 29 04:52:36 preware-bootstrap is the turing test Jan 29 04:52:42 hahaha Jan 29 04:52:51 testing for intelligence, very nice Jan 29 04:52:52 it takes nearly _no_ effort to install terminal app and type 3 lines of code Jan 29 04:55:16 zsoc: with a &&, the right options in wget and a | you could do it in one line Jan 29 04:56:10 cryptk|work: hey hey, don't make it too easy ;) and ; > && Jan 29 04:56:14 actually, you could cut out the && cause with teh right options on wget you wouldn't even save the bootstrap to your phone, lol Jan 29 04:56:34 cryptk|work: oh you're a bash guy? ;) Jan 29 04:56:51 wget -O - http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap | /bin/sh Jan 29 04:57:20 that would download it into cache and run it without ever actually saving ti to your phone Jan 29 04:57:23 PuffTheMagic, ok verified success that I can change anyone's launcher icon from C service Jan 29 04:57:38 :D Jan 29 04:57:53 LSCallFromApplication :P Jan 29 04:58:01 lol Jan 29 04:58:15 zsoc: feel free to add that line into the preware wiki if you want, lol Jan 29 04:58:17 they won't let me change other apps icons so I just tell them I am that app lol Jan 29 04:58:19 isnt that lib awesome :D Jan 29 04:58:46 haha yep Jan 29 04:58:54 ; < && Jan 29 04:58:59 services are like "god mode" in doom Jan 29 04:59:04 lol Jan 29 04:59:14 cryptk|work: lol thank you for the bash lesson :D Jan 29 04:59:27 * zsoc feels underestimated Jan 29 04:59:32 haha, I know you don't need it, lol Jan 29 04:59:49 egaudet: wait, when you said "Change", you mean WITH luna restart right? Jan 29 04:59:51 I just didn't know if you wanted to have the one liner on the wiki so I wasn't gonna add it Jan 29 04:59:54 changing all the apps inside the app launcher could be done from the app launcher's javascript Jan 29 05:00:02 but those pesky quicklaunch ones weren't Jan 29 05:00:07 zsoc, no Jan 29 05:00:15 I mean in front of your face magic Jan 29 05:00:15 && will only do next command if previous exited without error Jan 29 05:00:22 ; doesn't care Jan 29 05:00:23 egaudet: ON THE BUFFER?! Jan 29 05:00:37 jacques: yes i understand that, I suppose the context matters :) Jan 29 05:01:05 what buffer Jan 29 05:01:32 egaudet: uh, the fb Jan 29 05:01:35 right now my preware icon is calendar icon hehe Jan 29 05:01:41 heh Jan 29 05:01:50 zsoc, yeah you call it and then your icon changes :P Jan 29 05:02:06 egaudet: hm.. that's interesting. tells you something about how luna updates the buffer Jan 29 05:02:16 well the whole && <> ; arguement is void since the line I wrote doesn't use either, lol Jan 29 05:02:22 just uses a pipe Jan 29 05:02:51 can you guys do me a favor Jan 29 05:02:59 my firend is in a radio show contest Jan 29 05:03:03 *friend Jan 29 05:03:03 http://www.92profm.com/Article.asp?id=1626423 - make sure to vote for Stephen from North Kingstown! Jan 29 05:03:18 so this means we can have REAL actual themes Jan 29 05:03:29 and we can all thank PuffTheMagic for it :D Jan 29 05:03:40 sportman: do i know you? Jan 29 05:03:51 egaudet: he doesn't need the ego push ;) Jan 29 05:04:06 cryptk|work: pipes ftw :> Jan 29 05:04:24 dBsooner, were you looking for me earlier? Jan 29 05:05:05 egaudet: so that is just the icons... did you test out any of the css stuff? Jan 29 05:05:56 zsoc yes i hang in this room a decent amount Jan 29 05:06:05 zsoc the contest isnt for me though Jan 29 05:06:07 firend Jan 29 05:06:09 *friend Jan 29 05:06:29 egaudet: yeah.. you said, "hang on" Jan 29 05:06:30 PuffTheMagic, no not yet but that will be the easy part, that's all from javascript Jan 29 05:06:34 and that was it Jan 29 05:07:22 PuffTheMagic, the only issue is like for the calendar app it updates it's launch icon every day with that same service call so probably need to patch it. Jan 29 05:07:31 dBsooner, hmm I dunno Jan 29 05:07:33 stop hanging on Jan 29 05:07:45 its in pm Jan 29 05:08:25 egaudet: more reason why its a bad idea Jan 29 05:08:44 zsoc: | > ( && + ; ) Jan 29 05:08:49 lol Jan 29 05:09:12 sportman: you might want to consider finding a reason /b/ would like your friend Jan 29 05:09:12 although that is apples and oranges Jan 29 05:09:48 what?? Jan 29 05:09:49 sportman: i mean, they put the TIME magazine polls in a special order to spell out a meme with the first letter of each persons name ;) Jan 29 05:11:23 lol Jan 29 05:11:25 didnt know this Jan 29 05:11:45 scotch does odd things... Jan 29 05:13:15 like make zsoc write weird code... Jan 29 05:13:17 lol Jan 29 05:13:53 * xcomp takes AM_CONDITIONAL out back and shoots it Jan 29 05:14:02 xcomp: no one will miss it Jan 29 05:14:05 xcomp: ;) Jan 29 05:14:12 xcomp: you can borrow my M1 Garand Jan 29 05:14:40 PuffTheMagic, bad idea in general? or bad idea to use the service? Jan 29 05:15:30 i just think messing with other apps is a bad idea, i think themes should be limited to general system aspects Jan 29 05:16:21 idk.. i mean i understand they are wanted Jan 29 05:17:02 i can't believe am_conditional has just wasted an hour of my time Jan 29 05:17:48 actually come to think of it, it wouldn't have to patch the calendar app Jan 29 05:19:13 xcomp: i'm just glad it's not me :> Jan 29 05:31:42 anyone know how to get a channel list of webchat? Jan 29 05:34:55 zsoc im drinking brandy mm Jan 29 05:48:05 dtzWill: hildonizing is converting an app for maemo, dehildonizing (which I may have been the first one to coin, lol) is the inverse of that Jan 29 05:49:00 destinal-home: gotcha. since then i was able to stumble upon "hildon" and read up on that--"hildonization" didn't seem google friendly. or i can't type. or read :). Jan 29 05:49:11 destinal-home: thanks though, that makes sense. bummer we have to migrate off it Jan 29 05:49:23 well, we could implement all of it :) Jan 29 05:49:34 destinal-home: we should just get qt running on the pre Jan 29 05:49:37 so we can modify icons with the C service, patch the framework to allow a custom "theme" along the lines of the -dark theme, and patch the framework to load stylesheets from /media for each stylesheet it loads as well to overwrite simple things Jan 29 05:49:54 you guys are really pursuing the PWI project? Jan 29 05:50:09 sure why not Jan 29 05:50:33 hey, cool. hope you've got good beverages Jan 29 05:50:37 lol Jan 29 05:50:52 * destinal-home is drinking New Belgium 1554 Jan 29 05:51:55 I've proven all parts of it, so that's the beginnings of actual themeing for webos, I'll have my bud with me :P Jan 29 05:56:32 has anyone tried freeciv.net with the Pre's canvas stuff? Jan 29 06:00:24 hmm, it does have an sdl gui Jan 29 06:03:47 xcomp: no, canvas, like html5 Jan 29 06:04:04 they've got a web version now Jan 29 06:04:07 you guys working on anything new? Jan 29 06:04:18 nice Jan 29 06:04:27 destinal-home: wow Jan 29 06:05:47 ahhh crap Jan 29 06:05:57 it Jan 29 06:06:01 it's display gibberish Jan 29 06:06:14 i knew it was too good to be true :) Jan 29 06:06:39 i'm done for todya Jan 29 06:06:44 committing changes Jan 29 06:12:58 egaudet: what the heck is taking the autobuilder so long? Jan 29 06:34:06 hows about adding a cool effect to preware when changing between scenes... Jan 29 06:34:07 INFO: Modem Updater: Warning! You can potentially trashed your modem firmware if system lost the power in the middle of updating firmware Jan 29 06:34:26 destinal-home: where did you find that little gem of engrish? Jan 29 06:34:57 cryptk|work: the modem flasher run by doctor. I always run doctor from command line with java -jar to watch Jan 29 06:35:03 hahaha Jan 29 06:35:14 that is excellent! Jan 29 06:35:21 palm outsource FAIL! Jan 29 06:35:37 woohoo... I get to make a logon account for someone! Jan 29 06:36:22 gotta love being a system administrator! Jan 29 06:36:32 cryptk|work: I don't mind a normally unviewed warning not speaking good english :) Jan 29 06:37:11 haha Jan 29 06:37:13 I just have to make sure the system does not lost the power Jan 29 06:37:18 neither do I, but it is always funny Jan 29 06:37:23 :P Jan 29 06:37:32 at least everything is spelled right Jan 29 06:37:36 just bad grammar Jan 29 06:37:55 but they ARE all valid english words Jan 29 06:39:01 "Watch out! The road is very sweaty!" -- English subtitle in a Hong Kong film Jan 29 06:41:16 haha Jan 29 06:41:22 don't forget the one that started them all Jan 29 06:41:28 ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!! Jan 29 06:41:34 someone set us up the bomb!!! Jan 29 06:41:38 Zero wing rules Jan 29 06:41:55 what you say! Jan 29 06:43:04 hahaha Jan 29 06:43:38 Take off every "zig"! You know what you doing. Move "zig". For great justice. Jan 29 06:47:59 I can potentially haz trashed modem? Jan 29 06:54:52 jacques: yes u can haz Jan 29 06:56:20 I think it would require severe unluck Jan 29 07:02:30 egaudet: ping Jan 29 07:10:28 destinal-home: I can has brick phone fix by doctor which has possibly break modem? Jan 29 07:12:26 why has doctor possibly break phone... my thought doctor make fix phone? Jan 29 07:13:35 its a witch doctor Jan 29 07:14:41 what you say! Jan 29 07:15:37 gotta sleep - later Jan 29 07:16:06 we are warriors of the night Jan 29 07:30:09 Night ya'll Jan 29 07:34:19 What? I thought I had registered my nick as gollyzila, not gollyzila2 Jan 29 07:41:02 more patches added to feed. Tweeted. rwhitby? And G'night y'all. Jan 29 07:41:58 so, that's weird, original xplane doesn't appear in catalog but xplane carrier does? Jan 29 07:45:01 How do I unregister my nick so I can change it to gollyzila? Jan 29 07:46:30 gollyzila2: is your nick set as gollyzilla in wirc? Jan 29 07:46:39 and do you have the authentication in wirc set up? Jan 29 07:47:46 I have my nick set as gollyzila, yes. I'm not sure by what you mean by authentication. Can you elaborate please? Jan 29 07:48:31 in the configuration for freenode in wirc, click on advanced Jan 29 07:49:36 make sure you have the username and password set in there Jan 29 07:49:50 Everything is blank except the Perform on Connect.... I set it up to connect me to #webos-internals automatically Jan 29 07:49:57 my wirc authenticated... Jan 29 07:50:24 type in /msg nickserv info Jan 29 07:51:10 Okay. I authenticated. Should I disconnect/reconnect? Jan 29 07:51:13 or better yet, in the freenode configuration in wirc, set user to whatever username you registered and password to whatever password you used Jan 29 07:51:15 yeah Jan 29 07:51:20 disco and reco Jan 29 07:52:02 and in the freenode configuration (not under advanced) what is it showing in the nickname field Jan 29 07:52:22 is it gollyzila or gollyzila2 Jan 29 07:52:28 gollyzila Jan 29 07:53:00 gollyzila2 was just a temporary nick Jan 29 07:53:16 lemme check something Jan 29 07:53:27 hack the planet Jan 29 07:53:49 ok, click on freenode in wirc (not on the buttons, just on freenode) Jan 29 07:53:55 that will open the server status window Jan 29 07:54:13 are you seeing something towards the bottom about being identified as gollyzila Jan 29 07:54:22 and having a +e mode set by services? Jan 29 07:54:51 it says gollyzila2 is not a registered nickname Jan 29 07:55:08 go to the app menu (top left) and click on identity Jan 29 07:55:46 what does it have listed under nicknames Jan 29 07:56:04 gollyzila or gollyzila2 Jan 29 07:56:36 may need to be on the main wirc window to get the identity entry in the app menu Jan 29 07:57:01 It shows gollyzila Jan 29 07:57:33 * gollyzila2 will be back in 10min Jan 29 07:58:57 so it has gollyzila and ONLY gollyzila? Jan 29 08:03:58 Correct. And the option to add another nick Jan 29 08:04:59 gollyzila2 has to be in there somewhere... Jan 29 08:05:11 try just doing /nick gollyzila Jan 29 08:05:36 now log out and back in Jan 29 08:05:44 completely close and reopen wirc Jan 29 08:06:07 WTF Jan 29 08:06:24 hang on, I am gonna PM ya since this is technically OT for this channel Jan 29 08:37:16 lol Jan 29 08:41:56 oil: lol? Jan 29 08:42:03 yes Jan 29 08:42:16 what is so lol? Jan 29 08:42:42 exactly Jan 29 08:42:50 gotcha Jan 29 08:42:55 soemone set us up the bomb? Jan 29 08:43:10 definitely Jan 29 08:56:19 GRAWG!!! Jan 29 08:56:39 did you change your settings in the WIRC settings to your new password? Jan 29 08:56:57 cryptk|work: yes I did Jan 29 09:01:25 Wow Jan 29 09:01:38 I changed my nick to PantsOnTheGround Jan 29 09:01:57 is that your password? Jan 29 09:02:06 all i see is **************** Jan 29 09:02:12 xD Jan 29 09:02:18 no, his WIRC is stuck on gollyzilla2... Jan 29 09:02:27 so change it Jan 29 09:02:28 he can't get it to change Jan 29 09:02:52 click the little gear next to your configureation Jan 29 09:03:01 in the nickname dropdown, select the right one Jan 29 09:03:07 Already did that Jan 29 09:03:13 thats all it takes Jan 29 09:03:38 I put a new nick and deleted the rest Jan 29 09:03:46 and selected it there Jan 29 09:03:50 Yet it still shows me as gollyzila2 Jan 29 09:04:08 and what does typing /nick gollyzilla say in the server status? Jan 29 09:04:23 whala Jan 29 09:05:00 * oil hits the sack Jan 29 09:05:13 It says it's registered and that I need to identify. BUT no matter what nick I set up in WIRC, it still shows me as gollyzila2 Jan 29 09:06:46 oil the problem is that he has to do that every time Jan 29 09:07:09 wirc does not save it across restarts... and he has his nick in wirc set to gollyzila, not gollyzila2 Jan 29 09:07:22 it _should_ save it across restarts Jan 29 09:07:26 when you select it in the dropdown Jan 29 09:07:28 if its not... Jan 29 09:07:29 but it isn't Jan 29 09:07:34 orange+tap wirc Jan 29 09:07:35 and delete it Jan 29 09:07:36 bbiab, gotta work Jan 29 09:07:39 read-only file? Jan 29 09:07:40 then reinstall it Jan 29 09:07:58 remove it with orange+tap though, removing it through preware doesn't delete the cookies Jan 29 09:08:20 thats my last suggestion Jan 29 09:08:22 I'll reinstall then. Is orange+tap the best way to delete every app? Jan 29 09:08:24 now im really going to sleep Jan 29 09:09:11 Thank you oil and cryptk|work Jan 29 09:15:01 yessssss hallelujah! Jan 29 09:18:06 Thanks a bunch for your help cryptk|work Jan 29 09:18:15 And you too oil Jan 29 10:23:12 gollyzila2: are you on WIRC or on your home computer? Jan 29 10:23:19 cause it has the 2 again Jan 29 10:23:49 if you are on your home computer then you just need to change settings... if you are on WIRC... then we need to look into it more Jan 29 10:24:03 Server window is saying that gollyzila is still connected. Soooooo I have to remotely disconnect it Jan 29 10:24:15 you can do that with nickserv Jan 29 10:24:22 /msg nickserv help ghost Jan 29 10:24:24 What's the command? Jan 29 10:24:29 oops, wrong one Jan 29 10:24:40 are you identified? Jan 29 10:24:49 with /msg nickserv identify? Jan 29 10:25:06 if not that is fine Jan 29 10:25:08 gollyzila should be identified. Gollyzila2 is not registered Jan 29 10:25:09 just do... Jan 29 10:25:24 /msg nickserv ghost gollyzila PASSWORD Jan 29 10:25:29 that will boot gollyzila off Jan 29 10:25:37 then you can take the nick back Jan 29 10:26:28 Awesomeness Jan 29 10:26:29 there ya go Jan 29 10:26:43 so if someone takes your name, you can use that command to kick them off Jan 29 10:26:59 then you can swap to it with /nick, or just disconnect and reconnect Jan 29 10:27:07 Thanks Jan 29 10:27:11 do you have WIRC set to automatically identify you? Jan 29 10:27:17 Yes I do Jan 29 10:27:21 in the freenode advanced settings Jan 29 10:27:22 cool Jan 29 10:27:26 you are all set up then Jan 29 10:28:39 Thanks a bunch. Oh I have an unrelated question. Is there a way to install an ipk through a terminal command right on the Pre? I know it has to do with ipkg but I don't know the exact command Jan 29 10:29:41 uhm... yes there is... I don't know it off hand though Jan 29 10:29:52 gimmie a minute and I will find it for ya Jan 29 10:30:10 Thanks. I searched the wiki but it's old info Jan 29 10:32:58 yeah, it has it installing to /var Jan 29 10:33:10 I don't know the full innards of how cryptofs works Jan 29 10:33:24 so i don't know if we can jsut change it to /media/cryptofs or what Jan 29 10:33:31 I would jsut install them with Quick Install Jan 29 10:33:49 that is the best way anyway, you will know that it is done right and that you will be able to uninstall it properly Jan 29 10:36:08 I guess. It's been only a few times when I need to install an ipk while away from my comp. I wonder if Preware can check the /media/internal partition for any ipk's and ask if I would like Preware to install them Jan 29 10:36:38 that would be a cool idea Jan 29 10:37:15 have an option in the main scene called "local packages" Jan 29 10:37:26 Yeah exactly Jan 29 10:37:35 it will list any ipk files located in /media/internal/ipk/ Jan 29 10:37:47 and you can click to install/remove/update/whatever Jan 29 10:37:48 It seems plausible since preware has to download ipk from the feeds Jan 29 10:37:55 yep Jan 29 10:38:04 it would just be skipping the download step Jan 29 10:38:14 Yeah Jan 29 10:38:58 It'd be easier to download/install beta apps from the testing feeds Jan 29 10:41:57 actually, there is an easier way Jan 29 10:42:02 you add the testing feed to preware Jan 29 10:42:08 then install them through preware Jan 29 10:42:12 ~testing-feed Jan 29 10:42:13 somebody said testing-feed was a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Jan 29 10:53:47 Jan 29 10:54:18 cryptk|work: Cool thanks. Do you know the webos-internals developers? Do mind telling them about my on-device ipk installation idea? Jan 29 10:55:13 I will mention it next time some of them are on Jan 29 10:55:28 I don't know them personally or anything, but I frequent the channel and have a working relationship with a couple Jan 29 10:55:39 I have/am beta testing stuff for some of them Jan 29 10:56:08 What are you beta testing? Jan 29 10:59:28 lost my interwebs for a second Jan 29 10:59:41 I beta test pretty much everything that dtzWill comes out with Jan 29 10:59:49 as well as a couple other things that I am not allowed to talk about Jan 29 11:01:40 Oh cool. I see that there are patches already set up on the feeds for 1.4. Do developers get beta version of 1.4? Jan 29 11:02:03 Seems that way Jan 29 11:02:07 there is the early release program that some developers are let in to, but you will never find a developer saying that they are in it Jan 29 11:02:14 Lots of updated apps appear right before the OS update Jan 29 11:02:15 they are under a very strict NDA Jan 29 11:02:46 they are not allowed to release any details about upcoming updates, if they do and they are caught then they get removed from the program forever Jan 29 11:03:05 so they are allowed to update their apps early, but they are not allowed to release any details Jan 29 11:03:26 I am sure a couple of the internals guys are in it, but your guess is as good as mine as to who exactly Jan 29 11:03:38 I have seen some developers say that they "don't have 1.3.5.1". So it's inferred that they are testing 1.4. Jan 29 11:04:04 who have you seen say that? Jan 29 11:04:13 they are walking a very fine line with Palm Jan 29 11:04:38 a line that I wouldn't even dare get close to touching if i were in the early release Jan 29 11:04:56 which, as a beta tester for a couple of guys here... I am not qualified enough to get in it, lol Jan 29 11:05:25 I can't remember who. But they were having problems regarding an app, and they were asked what firmware version they had. Jan 29 11:05:54 it could have just been a user then Jan 29 11:06:02 they may have had 1.3.5.2 (if they are GSM) Jan 29 11:06:12 or could have still not upgraded to 1.3.5.1 Jan 29 11:06:17 Probably Jan 29 11:06:19 lots of possibilities Jan 29 11:06:47 I'm curious if some Palm executives have Preware and patches on there phones Jan 29 11:07:08 I wouldn't be surprised Jan 29 11:08:42 Hopefully they're watching precentral forums like a hawk, cause the homebrew community have some much needed requests Palm needs to deliver Jan 29 11:09:09 it is also a pretty much known fact that they monitor this very IRC channel Jan 29 11:09:34 someone at palm will likely read what we are saying now, that is if they are not reading it at this very moment Jan 29 11:09:48 bbiab, break time Jan 29 11:09:50 O.o coooool Jan 29 11:09:57 btw, glad you got your wirc figured out Jan 29 11:10:05 Thanks for the help Jan 29 11:11:21 i did it first!! http://www.funnyordie.co.uk/videos/d2b714361c/hello Jan 29 11:11:36 2 days ago i photoshopped dom joly and today hes uploaded that Jan 29 11:12:29 haha Jan 29 11:13:05 In that case, thank you Palm for being so supportive of homebrew and it's community. Jan 29 11:13:05 i have a boring question but one thats been bugging me since i got my pre Jan 29 11:13:37 * gollyzila jumps in bed Jan 29 11:13:54 is there a way that i can have one sound for texts but one for all other notifications because a ringtone every time my yahoo goes off is really aggravating but i dont want a short beep for texts Jan 29 11:14:05 omfg saurik was in here? Jan 29 11:14:10 wow Jan 29 11:14:29 why do they seperate the american and uk funnyordie... do they think us americans won't get the jokes Jan 29 11:14:50 well..i best not comment on that lol Jan 29 11:15:43 so can i change my text sound from the notification sound cos i cant see a patch that doe Jan 29 11:16:02 everything makes the same damn sound Jan 29 11:16:15 i bet theres a patch for that Jan 29 11:16:30 * iSmite bows down to saurik Jan 29 11:16:55 i couldnt see one, the only patch i saw like that was a different tone for each text but i dont want that Jan 29 11:17:13 i just want texts separate to notifications Jan 29 11:18:00 can never have enough matt berry Jan 29 11:30:25 anyone still awake? Jan 29 11:30:53 there is one, I forget what it is named though Jan 29 11:31:42 lemme see if I can find the patch Jan 29 11:33:26 yay Palm Accept my app!!! Jan 29 11:33:33 the patch is called Select Alert and Notification Tones Jan 29 11:33:44 iSmite: ^^^ Jan 29 11:33:46 I am an oficial developer now lol Jan 29 11:33:51 Suruat: what app is it? Jan 29 11:33:58 yeah wheres it at Jan 29 11:34:22 is it eye test Jan 29 11:34:43 will that just let me get one tone for sms then Jan 29 11:34:50 i dont have to set every contact do i Jan 29 11:35:07 I think so Jan 29 11:35:14 I am installing it now to check it out Jan 29 11:35:33 something horrible happening in our irc Jan 29 11:35:39 ughhh Jan 29 11:35:43 brb thanks by the way Jan 29 11:36:14 in whos irc? Jan 29 11:36:36 never heard of irc before Jan 29 11:38:50 well bang goes the vhosts. Jan 29 11:39:50 joshua: you have never heard of IRC? Jan 29 11:40:24 I mean.... you are talking on IRC right now... lol Jan 29 11:42:16 this is horrible someone impersonating someone has exception for ban and kicking everyone out and we dont know which is the real one as hes hacked his pw Jan 29 11:45:06 hey guys with the new pdk coming in march, will developers be able to code in Java or is it just restricted to c++ Jan 29 11:48:19 not sure what it is restricted to Jan 29 11:49:02 iSmite: the person who really owns the account should be able to log in and boot the guy off the account, then change the password Jan 29 11:49:24 weve got moof admin onto it Jan 29 11:49:30 we know who it is now Jan 29 11:49:34 is it on freenode? Jan 29 11:49:37 gonna gline him..no Jan 29 11:49:42 if so jsut have him ghost the guy off Jan 29 11:49:44 moofspeak Jan 29 11:49:46 ahh Jan 29 11:49:53 we know now Jan 29 11:49:55 gline will do the trick Jan 29 11:49:56 thx anyway Jan 29 11:49:59 np Jan 29 11:52:02 did that patch work? Jan 29 11:52:50 I can't really test it here cause I am at work and can't have my phone making a bunch of noise Jan 29 11:52:54 but it seems so Jan 29 11:53:10 it adds options into the sounds and ringtones for alert and notification Jan 29 11:53:19 one of those should change the SMS tone Jan 29 11:53:36 I don't know if it will change only the SMS tone though Jan 29 11:53:48 the sms is the same as notification tone normally..oh Jan 29 11:53:52 :( Jan 29 11:54:13 no it wont then Jan 29 11:55:19 I think there may be an app that does it, hold on a sec Jan 29 11:56:36 SMS tone per contact also lets you change the default SMS tone Jan 29 11:56:41 I jsut found that out Jan 29 11:56:47 in addition to setting it per contact Jan 29 11:57:14 I am installing it to check Jan 29 11:58:49 iSmite: looks like it gives you the ability to set an SMS tone for each contact, as well as a global tone for all SMS's... if neither is set then it falls back to the Alert tone Jan 29 11:58:59 so the SMS tone per contact will do what you are after Jan 29 11:59:04 ooh thanks Jan 29 11:59:10 but I am installing now to test it Jan 29 11:59:18 luna restarting as we speak Jan 29 11:59:31 its really aggravating when a network message or missed call or anythign like that makes the same noise as a text Jan 29 11:59:35 btw, pretty sure the SMS tone patch will not isntall with the fuirst one I mentioned Jan 29 11:59:40 yeah Jan 29 11:59:42 I agree Jan 29 11:59:44 i think i have that first one Jan 29 12:00:11 yep, I now have an entry in sounds&ringtones for messages Jan 29 12:00:30 so remove the alerts and notifications sound patch and install the SMS tone per contact patch Jan 29 12:00:32 nice, thanks loads Jan 29 12:00:38 <3 Jan 29 12:01:05 im female!! in case u wondering why a bloke would do <3 i forget sometimes when im in a new room Jan 29 12:01:12 but yeah thanks Jan 29 12:01:16 and as a side benefiet you can also set a seperate SMS tone and ringtone on a per contact basis Jan 29 12:01:29 haha, no biggie Jan 29 12:01:37 yes im thinking of getting something from hammer horror for the mother in law Jan 29 12:01:45 do it Jan 29 12:01:55 always nice to see women getting into all the techno geeky stuff, lol Jan 29 12:02:06 typically a "boys playground" Jan 29 12:02:27 i admin an iphone site and irc...350, 000 people Jan 29 12:02:43 yes girls arent on the internet so im told :P Jan 29 12:04:26 is it a part of a network Jan 29 12:04:35 or just a server with that many peeps Jan 29 12:04:39 they all hate me for going to the pre but im bored of the iphone theres only so much hacking you can do with it and i wanted something new to play with Jan 29 12:04:47 ours? Jan 29 12:04:49 yeah Jan 29 12:05:06 we have a freenode server on our network I think, and they have an efnet hub Jan 29 12:05:12 xsellize.com forum 350, 000 members (largest iphone site) irc is on moofspeak.net Jan 29 12:05:14 but the weirdo that loves freebsd runs it Jan 29 12:05:28 you should come in sometime we flame people for free Jan 29 12:07:34 ahh awkwardtv is on there, that was originally something a dude on somethingawful started i think Jan 29 12:08:28 damn i wish id registered on here with my normal irc name but i never expected to stay, ircs arent usually the most friendly of places, especially ours but this is a nice room Jan 29 12:08:37 can i change it? Jan 29 12:08:59 anyone know how to check out a new remote git branch? Jan 29 12:09:13 hmm maybe i can group it Jan 29 12:09:27 i cant remember the command Jan 29 12:10:55 my growls failed so i dunno if that worked Jan 29 12:11:04 can u see me Jan 29 12:11:20 ill come back in to make sure Jan 29 12:11:54 i can see it all Jan 29 12:12:24 can you see me Jan 29 12:12:30 yep its worked Jan 29 12:13:55 pumpa: did you group it to your other name? Jan 29 12:14:00 yeah Jan 29 12:14:12 can you see my tho Jan 29 12:14:13 all good then, I have several names, all grouped to cryptk Jan 29 12:14:17 cool Jan 29 12:14:21 i remembered the commans Jan 29 12:14:24 yes i have loads Jan 29 12:14:34 spock is one of them rofl but i think it would be taken here Jan 29 12:14:44 pumpa is my normal one Jan 29 12:16:07 I use my current nick the most Jan 29 12:16:19 I also have cryptk, cryptk|home and cryptk|wirc Jan 29 12:18:08 lol your vhost is mad. where are you from Jan 29 12:18:43 whos where Jan 29 12:19:35 i meant cryptk but anyone Jan 29 12:19:43 ahh Jan 29 12:19:48 mines not hosted so u can see im from uk Jan 29 12:19:49 what are you seeing as my vhost? Jan 29 12:20:04 cacheflow.lackland.af.mil? Jan 29 12:20:13 I am at work, I am on a DOD owned computer Jan 29 12:20:26 gateway/web/freenode/x-plzjzppiaiddnsud and cacheflow.lackland.af.mil/137.242.1.37 - http://we Jan 29 12:20:30 ah ok Jan 29 12:20:34 just looked nusual Jan 29 12:20:41 yeah, I am using the freenode web IRC client Jan 29 12:20:52 runs in the browser Jan 29 12:21:00 since I can't install an IRC client on a DOD comp Jan 29 12:21:27 ew like a mibbit equivalent Jan 29 12:21:48 i see youve banned mibbit well done lol they were gonna ban them off ours but didnt, such a shame there would have been much rejoicing Jan 29 12:21:55 fromme Jan 29 12:23:51 who banned what? Jan 29 12:24:04 mibbit, you cant join freenode on mibbit Jan 29 12:24:17 what is mibbit? Jan 29 12:24:35 what every annoying person uses to join irc chat when they dont have a client Jan 29 12:24:40 ahh Jan 29 12:24:48 no, the one I am using is an official one from freenode Jan 29 12:25:02 hmm can i have the address Jan 29 12:25:06 may come in useful Jan 29 12:25:11 http://webchat.freenode.net Jan 29 12:25:14 thanks Jan 29 12:25:24 there is a link on the webos-internals site too Jan 29 12:25:27 we need one of those Jan 29 12:25:30 http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=webos-internals Jan 29 12:25:39 ah ok Jan 29 12:25:39 automatically fills in the channel name is you use that one Jan 29 12:25:45 anyways, time to log off for the day Jan 29 12:25:46 ttyl Jan 29 12:25:54 damn im supposed to be at drs..me too c ya thx for help Jan 29 12:26:02 np, later Jan 29 12:48:09 good morning...anyone up this early? I could use some help figuring out what is burning CPU cycles and draining my battery. Jan 29 12:57:44 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:44 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:44 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:45 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:47 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:49 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:51 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:53 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:55 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:56 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:57:59 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 12:58:08 zlficca: f off Jan 29 13:09:55 if any of the operators for the channel are here Jan 29 13:10:05 +R makes it so those bots can't talk Jan 29 13:10:10 just add a " If you can't speak, please register your Nick ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#contents-userregistration ) Jan 29 13:10:25 That's in the topic already iirc Jan 29 13:10:37 then +R needs to be set Jan 29 13:10:40 and it is Jan 29 13:11:01 I think they're just doing spammy CCTP things Jan 29 13:11:24 with urls that make people into spammy things Jan 29 13:20:01 PuffTheMagic, IIRC, you fllashed uboot to the pre?(but didnt get anywhere with it) correct? Jan 29 13:30:17 back Jan 29 13:32:39 anyone here have this installed YouView - Visual Voicemail App Jan 29 13:35:08 sup destinal Jan 29 13:35:18 morning Jan 29 13:35:25 morning lol Jan 29 13:35:52 quick one for ya i have a app installed i did uninstall but seems like its still there any ideas? Jan 29 13:36:25 what did you uninstall with? Jan 29 13:36:32 preware Jan 29 13:36:59 hmm,and how does it seem installed? Jan 29 13:37:05 i think my brother installed with WQI Jan 29 13:37:36 bc i lost my VM Jan 29 13:37:54 (usually it seems like QI comes into situations like these) :) Jan 29 13:38:04 lost your VM? Jan 29 13:38:17 which app, if I may ask? Jan 29 13:38:38 YouView - Visual Voicemail App Jan 29 13:39:11 should i install again with WQI and than uninstall with the same Jan 29 13:39:19 hmmm,and did you install any patches for it to integrate better? Jan 29 13:39:25 no Jan 29 13:39:26 or did he? Jan 29 13:39:30 hmmm Jan 29 13:40:03 not sure, what does lost your vm mean? Jan 29 13:40:15 voicemail Jan 29 13:40:36 but "lost?" Jan 29 13:40:41 still telling me the youmail person ur tring to reach is not around ect... Jan 29 13:41:28 hmm,I've never used this app so this is sounding pretty strange Jan 29 13:41:31 where can i look to see if the app is gone Jan 29 13:41:43 maybe there is a file stuck somewere Jan 29 13:42:14 stuck=hidden Jan 29 13:42:32 I think I need a longer explanation of what changes when you use the app and what didn't change when you remove it Jan 29 13:42:53 sorry brrb Jan 29 13:43:51 well the app said there was a update i did try to update but the install process just hung up so i said the hell with the app and went to delete it Jan 29 13:53:13 mobgod -- this is one of the google voice apps? Jan 29 13:55:10 ~seen rwhitby Jan 29 13:55:13 youview is a youmail visual voicemail app Jan 29 13:55:13 rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals (22h 58m 35s) #oe (22h 58m 35s) #nslu2-linux (22h 58m 35s). Has said a total of 27 messages. Is idling for 21h 45m 48s, last said: '(or AUPT releases, which doubled the peak for the last 24 hours)'. Jan 29 13:55:50 Thanks Ron, never heard of youmail. Jan 29 13:56:33 its driving me crazy Jan 29 13:56:48 mobgod how did you try to remove it? Jan 29 13:56:55 preware Jan 29 13:57:05 I hadn't either, but have been in the alpha group for yourview since it was offered on precentral Jan 29 13:57:06 mobgod do you have the sdk installed? Jan 29 13:57:19 after my retart brother told me he installed it with WQI Jan 29 13:57:21 I also had upgrade issues, but I believe it uninstalled ok Jan 29 13:57:40 Ron001 did u try your voicemail yet Jan 29 13:57:51 mobgod -- do you have the sdk installed? Jan 29 13:57:54 Orange key + tap app and delete should remove it Jan 29 13:58:11 rick-home i think so Jan 29 13:58:22 not sure like i said my brother did it Jan 29 13:58:40 mobgod, does the youmail app show in the launcher? Jan 29 13:58:53 mobgod: I currently have not reinstalled. I'm having an issue with the Hide App Vendors not cleanly removed. was going to come here later when I had some time for help Jan 29 13:58:56 Ron001 i did delete it but people still here youmail VM Jan 29 13:59:10 rick-home no Jan 29 13:59:16 mobgod Jan 29 13:59:32 mobgod, you mean that people CALLING YOU still are re-directed to youmail voice mail? Jan 29 13:59:32 mobgod: its gone, you need to set your phone to not forward to youmail Jan 29 13:59:39 yes rick-home Jan 29 13:59:47 that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE APP. Jan 29 14:00:03 You have set your phone's ACCOUNT with sprint to conditional call forward to that number Jan 29 14:00:18 you need to UNDO that. Jan 29 14:00:36 so thats on sprints website? Jan 29 14:01:06 no Jan 29 14:01:10 you do that from the phone Jan 29 14:01:45 go to youmail.com and follow the instructions on how to change it back Jan 29 14:02:01 or just do this. Jan 29 14:02:06 of course, you can check your VM's there too ;) Jan 29 14:02:21 i got it thanks Jan 29 14:02:23 on your phone, enter *38 and tell it to dial. Jan 29 14:02:27 :-) Jan 29 14:02:33 *38 Jan 29 14:02:37 thats what i did Jan 29 14:02:38 nodnod Jan 29 14:02:46 that cancels the conditional call forward Jan 29 14:02:55 thanks guys btw rick-home any news Jan 29 14:03:12 if you ever want it to go BACK you have to do a *28 Jan 29 14:03:29 nope. Why don't you ping him and see if he replies to you??? Jan 29 14:03:34 the app has a lot of problems now Jan 29 14:03:51 mobgod that's why I use gdial and google voice Jan 29 14:04:25 i have google voice Jan 29 14:04:48 going to email him now Jan 29 14:06:21 rick-home: morning Jan 29 14:07:03 email sent Jan 29 14:07:25 morning destinal-wirc Jan 29 14:07:37 last nights peak was as high but shorter.... Jan 29 14:07:54 I'll be glad when Tom gets the new server installed. Jan 29 14:08:06 is appscoop not working? Jan 29 14:08:54 mobgod most of us don't spend a lot of time checking out other people's installers..... Jan 29 14:09:21 rick-home: other peoples installers? does not compute Jan 29 14:10:23 ok well i guess its down than Jan 29 14:16:52 'j Jan 29 14:27:06 hmm,random wirc disconnect Jan 29 14:29:11 does if/fi ever stop being amusing? Jan 29 14:29:33 I mean I've only been linux'ing for about 2 years Jan 29 14:30:10 Can someone help me remove a patch that didn't cleanly remove after the AUPT update? Jan 29 14:30:30 Ron001: what patch and what ipkg error? Jan 29 14:30:50 hide app vendors Jan 29 14:31:19 Ron001: is it functioning? (ie: are your app vendors hidden?) Jan 29 14:31:47 when I try to list apps in the catalog, it leaves the page blank Jan 29 14:32:14 ie. opening the recent page Jan 29 14:32:19 Ron001: ... so it's malfunctioning? Jan 29 14:32:49 yes, but I can open an individual page from the featured apps Jan 29 14:34:04 zsoc: what's amusing? Jan 29 14:34:08 top Jan 29 14:34:11 Ron001: you may want to consider EPR. a manual removal doesn't actually _remove_ anything, and there's no guarantee you can reinstall the patch again to remove it cleanly Jan 29 14:34:29 destinal-pre: ending an if statement with fi Jan 29 14:34:43 heh Jan 29 14:34:47 zsocwerkin, I thought of that, just dreading the reinstall Jan 29 14:35:07 zsocwerkin, ill give it a try Jan 29 14:36:10 Ron001: at your own risk, there are 2 easy commands to manually removal from command line Jan 29 14:37:23 +zsocwerkin: ok Jan 29 14:37:41 +zsocwerkin: hint? Jan 29 14:38:18 Mornin ya'll Jan 29 14:38:32 mornin Jan 29 14:41:01 dBsooner: morning Jan 29 14:41:26 Oklahoma is shut down. Jan 29 14:41:29 the whole state. Jan 29 14:41:38 And it's not that bad. Jan 29 14:41:39 :D Jan 29 14:41:52 dBsooner: the rest of us won't miss it. What good ever came from OK? Jan 29 14:42:04 (where the wind comes whistlin' down the plain ...) Jan 29 14:42:16 (and the corn is as high as an elephant's eye ...) Jan 29 14:42:19 Hmm Jan 29 14:42:53 * nt4cats 's Pre just turned into a block of molten slag. I recommend the rest of you do NOT irritate dBsooner Jan 29 14:43:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Chenoweth Jan 29 14:43:16 she's from Broken Arrow. :) Jan 29 14:44:07 Carrie Underwood? Jan 29 14:44:10 she's from Checotah Jan 29 14:44:25 See, good stuff DOES come from Oklahoma. Jan 29 14:52:01 anyone else see ipad and want linux on it? Jan 29 14:52:02 +zsocwerkin: would you mind walking me through remove the patch from the command line? Jan 29 14:53:43 could anyone help me with that? Jan 29 14:54:15 Ron001: I arrived late and saw you chatting with zsoc ... which patches are you trying to remove? Jan 29 14:55:14 after the aupt update, the hide app vendors patch didn't update cleanly, i tried to remove with wosqi, but it left something behind, and the app catalog isn't working properly Jan 29 14:55:18 Ron001: ... and I'll repeat zsoc's warning that by manually removing patch ipk's you can leave the patched files in an inconsistent state and cause yourself problems down the road Jan 29 14:55:44 I'll epr if thats better Jan 29 14:56:34 Ron001: I am not an expert on this topic -- but EPR sounds safer because I believe that EPR does a good job at restoring files from backups if they're present Jan 29 14:56:57 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 14:56:57 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 14:56:57 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 14:56:58 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 14:57:00 VERSION GNAA > j00 Jan 29 14:57:12 fair enough. I can multitask whilst reinstalling the 53 patches I have. Jan 29 14:57:13 u should add +R Jan 29 14:57:16 to this channel Jan 29 15:00:19 nt4cats: if I did manually remove the patch, would the Emerg Recon Util fix any inconsistencies? Jan 29 15:01:32 Ron001: I don't know if EPR looks for all backup files -- or only looks for backup files for installed .ipks (I'll check the wiki) ... Jan 29 15:04:00 brb Jan 29 15:06:13 Ron001: sorry, working Jan 29 15:06:35 Ron001: no, the recon utility fixes your status file (ie: tells preware what you have installed) Jan 29 15:08:17 Ron001: epr does a better job at fixing orig files with magic. you can try removing just the 1 patch. the worst case scenerio is you'l need to manually repair files touched Jan 29 15:20:15 quiet... Jan 29 15:21:17 zsoc: is that a comment or a command? Jan 29 15:22:15 comment to the room or command to the voices in my head, so... both? either? Jan 29 15:23:43 zsocwerkin: do you have op here? Jan 29 15:24:01 or maybe destinal-pre? Jan 29 15:24:23 what's upan Jan 29 15:24:24 I've been checking PreCentral, twitter, and the app store every 11 minutes for about 2 weeks hoping that Flash would appear Jan 29 15:24:27 up Jan 29 15:24:48 can you op, /mode +R #webos-internals and deop? :) Jan 29 15:25:37 oh ctcp spam again? Jan 29 15:25:40 yea Jan 29 15:25:43 thanks nt4cats and zsocwerkin Jan 29 15:26:05 sec Jan 29 15:31:15 Lumiere: someone decided to revoke +R.. I'd like to figure out who made that decision before I undo it. Jan 29 15:31:34 ok Jan 29 15:32:06 didn't destinal remoev the +r? Jan 29 15:32:38 nt4cats: you'd find out here first ;) Jan 29 15:33:15 we probably won't see flash until at least march, calling it now Jan 29 15:33:34 VincentLaw: beta in feb, might be limited to devs tho Jan 29 15:33:34 VincentLaw: I bet 2-14 Jan 29 15:34:31 I'm still sticking with my march estimate, even for beta Jan 29 15:35:07 actionscript is very similar to javascript right? Jan 29 15:35:13 I think everyone will /want/ it to come out as soon as 1.4 lands, but it's not tied to 1.4 and the way they talked at ces sound like they're not done with it yet even for a simultaneous 1.4 release Jan 29 15:39:09 looks like a bug in wirc, it said I had set +R undefined Jan 29 15:39:25 so it's obviously expecting modes to only affect nicks Jan 29 15:39:31 or some other argument Jan 29 15:40:10 VincentLaw: the way I interpreted the CES chatter about Flash was that it would be included in 1.4 in beta form, but would be be available in the app catalog before 1.4 is released. Jan 29 15:40:44 .. and I thought 1.4 was due in February, according to the CES slides (although I could be wrong) Jan 29 15:41:00 1.4 is, but I doubt flash will be with it Jan 29 15:41:07 especially since it's an app catalog distribution Jan 29 15:41:22 of course I'd like to be pleasantly surprised Jan 29 15:41:26 but I'm not holding my breath Jan 29 15:41:44 VincentLaw: is your doubt because you don't believe what they said at CES, or because you have additional information (even if it is something you can't talk about directly)? Jan 29 15:41:46 VincentLaw: Palm said that it was going to be made available as a downloadable beta FOR 1.4, which would imply after 1.4 comes out and before 1.5 it will be a downloadable beta Jan 29 15:41:56 what destinal just said Jan 29 15:42:12 Ahh, I heard that wrong, then. Jan 29 15:42:15 nt4cats: I doubted it since the moment they said it, for what destinal said :p Jan 29 15:42:32 I think everyone else just heard what they wanted to hear lol Jan 29 15:43:16 http://www.precentral.net/webos-14-coming-february-built-flash-video-etc Jan 29 15:43:38 PreCentral heard what I did -- they reported 1.4 comes out in Feburary WITH flash Jan 29 15:43:52 precentral has been wrong before :p Jan 29 15:43:55 I'm not saying they're correct -- I'm just saying that's what they said Jan 29 15:44:21 (trying to provide evidence that I am not 100% crazy) Jan 29 15:44:25 nt4cats: PreCentral misunderstood what they said at CES which was pretty clear Jan 29 15:44:31 I'll find the video part where they said it Jan 29 15:44:43 nt4cats: I don't think you're crazty :) Jan 29 15:44:47 /zty/zy/ Jan 29 15:49:14 nt4cats: read dieter's livelog from CES Jan 29 15:49:21 11:48: Real flash, flash 10, available in app catalog soon Jan 29 15:49:21 11:48: with work with any pre with webOS 1.4 Jan 29 15:49:28 so it'll be in the app catalog for 1.4 Jan 29 15:49:32 not bundled Jan 29 15:50:07 and no guarantees it'll be available by when 1.4 ships, just 1.4 or greater will be the OS you need to install and run it Jan 29 15:50:44 destinal/VLaw: okay, thanks. I'm going to cry for a little bit and then do some more work. Jan 29 15:51:14 nt4cats: on the bright side, they said "soon" :) Jan 29 15:52:54 yeah Jan 29 15:53:00 I mean, it'd be great if we were wrong Jan 29 15:53:06 and it hit the catalog on 1.4 release day Jan 29 15:53:10 FYI -- anyone who can't talk will need to register. I think some web clients may not alert you to that fact. We're not ignoring you. Jan 29 15:53:33 Register your nick to speak: http://bit.ly/1MtZU Jan 29 15:53:45 nt4cats: oh right, my topic is still there Jan 29 15:53:47 :P Jan 29 15:54:12 destinal-work: it's a good idea to mention that in-channel every once and a while, too. Jan 29 15:54:12 I never removed that when I -R'd during the lull Jan 29 15:54:25 which is a good thing as it turns out Jan 29 15:55:30 * Lumiere ruthlessly steals destinal-work's message Jan 29 15:55:50 hehe Jan 29 16:10:16 'lo egaudet_work and FreeTim Jan 29 16:12:51 test Jan 29 16:13:06 ok, I think I am registered. If you cannot read this, let me know Jan 29 16:18:15 oh is +R back? Jan 29 16:18:18 morning Jan 29 16:25:45 egaudet_work: destinal-work added Jan 29 16:27:00 we should start a C40 rumor Jan 29 16:27:23 for april fools Jan 29 16:28:35 c40? Jan 29 16:29:11 VincentLaw: yeah the new webos device with a snapdragon a 1gb of ram Jan 29 16:30:06 >.> Jan 29 16:30:27 I thought the snapdragon didn't have a decent GPU though Jan 29 16:30:50 why not a full atom processor and nvidia mobile gpu Jan 29 16:30:55 (eww) Jan 29 16:31:01 I'll take Tegra2 actually Jan 29 16:31:07 and OLED Jan 29 16:31:14 make it like the zunehd Jan 29 16:31:14 or you could say it has the new apple A4? processor? Jan 29 16:31:31 it'll have 64 G of ram and it'll be called the Palm Tamp Jan 29 16:31:49 to rival the iPad , you know Jan 29 16:31:58 yea saw that coming Jan 29 16:32:03 from only about 10000 miles away Jan 29 16:34:03 good eye sight Jan 29 16:34:09 nah Jan 29 16:34:21 remote operated helicopter with a camera Jan 29 16:34:23 :) Jan 29 16:34:31 nice Jan 29 16:36:26 building embedded systems is such a huge tradeoff .. it's amazing how many parts are out there Jan 29 16:39:42 bpadalino: super true. I'd be happier with a TI davinci series for a predecessor Jan 29 16:41:45 test Jan 29 16:41:46 ok Jan 29 16:42:04 i need help..trying to install sms per contact patch and it keeps saying error failed post install script Jan 29 16:43:42 1 out of 1 hunk failed saving rejectw Jan 29 16:43:43 s Jan 29 16:44:03 what should i do? Jan 29 16:49:48 It probably conflicts with another patch you have installed Jan 29 16:50:16 i uninstalled all of them Jan 29 16:50:19 and rebooted Jan 29 16:50:23 befoe i installed it Jan 29 16:50:43 can i ssh in and find whats left, i dont know what the path to patches is Jan 29 16:50:45 try to run EPR Jan 29 16:50:51 maybe something didnt uninstall right? Jan 29 16:50:56 possible Jan 29 16:51:03 epr wont thta get rid of everything though? Jan 29 16:51:17 EPR will get rid of all your patches Jan 29 16:51:20 eek Jan 29 16:51:22 but you said you uninstalled them all anyway Jan 29 16:51:26 yes i did Jan 29 16:51:36 i mean Jan 29 16:51:37 so there's nothing to remove except leftover stuff Jan 29 16:51:50 no i mean i had a patch for sounds..and this new one i want is for sounds Jan 29 16:51:58 i have others but they are nothing to do with sounds Jan 29 16:52:15 i removed it and rebooted first, is there somewhere i can look for it in ssh Jan 29 16:53:27 the sms contacts per tone touches 3 packages Jan 29 16:53:31 IIRC Jan 29 16:53:36 messaging, contacts and sounds&alerts Jan 29 16:53:55 yes i dont have a patch that has anything to do with those Jan 29 16:54:13 which file is it complaining about the hunk failing? Jan 29 16:54:48 messaging/models/lunaservices.js.rej Jan 29 16:55:53 which patch is this? Jan 29 16:56:36 sms per contact Jan 29 16:56:45 did you mean luna-service.js Jan 29 16:56:57 it says that after hunk failed Jan 29 16:56:59 all in red Jan 29 16:58:00 usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/models/messaging-luna-service.js.rej Jan 29 16:58:02 my vote is on conflict. Jan 29 16:58:07 and you have 0 other messaging patches? Jan 29 16:58:24 egaudet: there needs to be a way to flag patches which conflict, and offer them in packs instead Jan 29 16:58:38 ok the patches i have are Jan 29 16:58:56 well it's the only patch we have that touches that Jan 29 16:58:58 add date, enable led notifications, notification repeat and swipe to delete Jan 29 16:59:14 have you installed any patches or modified files outside of preware? Jan 29 16:59:29 egaudet_work: what is saved in the .rej files? line info? Jan 29 16:59:30 could you send me your webos-patches.log file Jan 29 16:59:45 zsocwerkin: the failed hunks usually but that is --dry-run output so it's fake Jan 29 16:59:46 yep if you tell me where i get it Jan 29 17:00:02 USB mode or ssh /media/internal/webos-patches.log Jan 29 17:00:08 k 1min Jan 29 17:00:10 bpadalino|work: you see the new AM3xxx series ti boards? Jan 29 17:01:13 although I suppose they aren't terribly useful for mobile applications... Jan 29 17:03:00 here egaudet colloquy wont let me send over irc http://public.me.com/pumpa Jan 29 17:04:00 brb a sec Jan 29 17:06:50 hi Jan 29 17:06:51 how can I reach Dieter Bohn from precentral? Jan 29 17:07:52 egaudet what u reckon? Jan 29 17:08:57 MetaView: there is a phone number on this page http://www.smartphoneexperts.com/staff Jan 29 17:09:37 webcam video surface as a texture on a spinning opengles2.0 cube, hdmi out 720p, <10% cpu usage. I love these guys Jan 29 17:10:01 MetaView: the better question is... why would you want to? :D Jan 29 17:11:06 MetaView: http://www.google.com/profiles/dieterbohn/contactme?continue=http://www.google.com/profiles/dieterbohn Jan 29 17:11:07 harsh Jan 29 17:11:15 iSmite: what webos version? Jan 29 17:11:20 latest one Jan 29 17:11:26 1.3.5.2 Jan 29 17:11:39 destinal-pre: :( Jan 29 17:11:50 zsoc: what's new? Jan 29 17:11:52 iSmite: ssh in Jan 29 17:11:56 k Jan 29 17:12:08 * nt4cats wishes he had a quarter for every time someone answered what version with latest one -- and soon thereafter found out they don't, in fact, have the actual latest version ... Jan 29 17:12:24 it is the latest one isnt it? Jan 29 17:12:42 zsoc: you should have asked why anyone would want to talk to dieter when they could be here talking to us Jan 29 17:12:50 iSmite: yes, that is the latest one I know of -- but "latest one" is a dangerous answer (and often not helpful) Jan 29 17:12:58 :P Jan 29 17:13:05 i wrote it straight underneath i just pressed enter by accident.. Jan 29 17:13:38 iSmite: type the following command and tell me the output: Jan 29 17:13:39 destinal-pre: I suppose. it's not like I'm attacking his character? lol Jan 29 17:13:44 iSmite: I wasn't complainig about you specifically ... especially because you did provide the version number right away ... Jan 29 17:13:54 grep luna-service /usr/lib/ipkg/info/com.palm.app.messaging.md5sums Jan 29 17:14:04 yeah whee am i typing that you know im thick Jan 29 17:14:04 * nt4cats thinks dieter looks like a 12 year-old Jan 29 17:14:23 not like, what,that joker? :P Jan 29 17:14:33 in the terminal shell ssh'd into your pre Jan 29 17:14:50 does it mater what dir im in Jan 29 17:15:01 (btw I agree with nt4cats and was going to say "latest is not a valid answer" before you put the version :P ) Jan 29 17:15:04 iSmite: no Jan 29 17:15:19 529ec7cfcf459492535a83eeec936a18 *./usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/models/messaging-luna-service.js Jan 29 17:15:19 iSmite: it doesn't matter what dir you're in Jan 29 17:15:42 iSmite: ok now type this command: Jan 29 17:15:51 what I don't get is why someone who JUST purchased a droid would want to jump ship for a pre plus, I mean I understand wanting the pre+, but a droid is totally reasonable Jan 29 17:16:00 zsocwerkin: destinal removed it Jan 29 17:16:07 well..i moved from iphone to pre Jan 29 17:16:07 md5sum /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/models/messaging-luna-service.js Jan 29 17:16:11 dBsooner: ty Jan 29 17:16:25 0f27f84ec5248f10fa61560d4c050ec4 /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/models/messaging-luna-service.js Jan 29 17:16:26 destinal-work: have you _used_ a droid? heh Jan 29 17:16:30 zsocwerkin: And I just realized that was from forever ago and my screen didn't autoscroll. Jan 29 17:16:48 Pidgin fail. Jan 29 17:16:57 dBsooner: it's cool I understood the context Jan 29 17:17:13 destinal-work: (this is completely anecdotal) a colleage bought a droid on its launch day. He brought it in the office to show it off and couldn't figure out how to get ANYTHING to work (he spent 5 minutes fumbling around trying to find a list of running programs and then gave up in shame) Jan 29 17:17:14 I totally recommended a friend who was looking into a new phone but on verizon, late last year, wait for January and see if there was a verizon pre out there Jan 29 17:17:25 instead the moment the droid appeared he jumped Jan 29 17:17:36 iSmite: so here is where we are, that file is modified Jan 29 17:17:43 s/colleage/guy I work with/ Jan 29 17:17:43 nt4cats meant: destinal-work: (this is completely anecdotal) a guy I work with bought a droid on its launch day. He brought it in the office to show it off and couldn't figure out how to get ANYTHING to work (he spent 5 minutes fumbling around trying to find a list of ... Jan 29 17:17:55 and I am really curious as to why/how it was modified Jan 29 17:17:56 * nt4cats can't spell Jan 29 17:18:18 egaudet: epr + pulling that file from doctor lol Jan 29 17:18:29 zsocwerkin: there is an app from me which has state published but which isn't visible yet Jan 29 17:18:37 nt4cats: thx Jan 29 17:18:51 zsocwerkin: forget the solution Jan 29 17:18:53 what is the cause Jan 29 17:18:57 egaudet- is it because of the yahoo plugin i have installed Jan 29 17:19:05 ooh it could be Jan 29 17:19:05 yes Jan 29 17:19:08 it is Jan 29 17:19:08 dBsooner: also what did I remove? I'm totally lost :) Jan 29 17:19:12 aw what i need both though Jan 29 17:19:19 destinal-work: +R Jan 29 17:19:21 Now who is patching outside of AUPT! Jan 29 17:19:32 got some basic git questions, as I'm just getting started with it...when I 'clone' a project, that's my own personal copy that I can do whatever with, and nothing will happen until I commit, right? Jan 29 17:19:32 where is this yahoo plugin? Jan 29 17:19:45 nt4cats: My freind too, had a very hard time learning the Droid... he didn't get SMS messages for a long time but mostly, he coulnd't navigate the settings/ menus Jan 29 17:19:46 iSmite: try patching them backwards, otherwise combine the patches Jan 29 17:19:55 dunno how Jan 29 17:19:58 sugardave: commiting just commits to your local copy Jan 29 17:20:00 maybe i can work round it wait Jan 29 17:20:06 dBsooner: ah, okay Jan 29 17:20:07 oh, right. probably should never have turned it back off. can't wait for ircd-seven Jan 29 17:20:07 sugardave: nothing happens to remote until you push Jan 29 17:20:18 where is this yahoo plugin??? Jan 29 17:20:27 Patching outside of AUPT is semi-illegal in 49 states Jan 29 17:20:38 alright, and for something on github that says 'read-only repo'...how do you push to there? Jan 29 17:20:39 * dBsooner still wonders why everyone and their dog has ops except him. Jan 29 17:20:50 all i want is a different text tone to the normal notifications because they all make the same noise and i dont know what is a text and what is a notification Jan 29 17:20:51 sugardave: you don't. Jan 29 17:21:04 iSmite: answer his question.. where is this yahoo plugin? Jan 29 17:21:05 can i do it differently Jan 29 17:21:08 hang on Jan 29 17:21:11 :) Jan 29 17:21:12 dBsooner: op is rarely needed here Jan 29 17:21:12 dBsooner: on the internet, no one knows you're a dog Jan 29 17:21:20 then how does it get updated? Jan 29 17:21:25 destinal-work: I know right. Jan 29 17:21:45 sugardave: By the actual maintainers of it. Jan 29 17:21:55 sugardave: I am sure they have a special group of commiters Jan 29 17:22:02 and btw this is a perfect example of why EPR should probably never be used Jan 29 17:22:05 I see, so I will need to have some way to send my copy of the repo to them Jan 29 17:22:10 but "read only" means you can only read it.. clone it.. you can't push it. Jan 29 17:22:27 see if you can setup your own cloned "branch" Jan 29 17:22:29 ./media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications Jan 29 17:22:34 and then you can request a merge Jan 29 17:22:44 dBsooner: thanks, I will mess with it Jan 29 17:23:22 egaudet_work: patch on runtime? Jan 29 17:23:25 * zsocwerkin ducks Jan 29 17:23:43 Patching is about to become illegal, period. Jan 29 17:23:51 egaudet: symlink patches like the themes idea? Jan 29 17:24:13 destinal, OK if I quote that Dog saying and print out a banner at work? I'm putting in the break room Jan 29 17:24:14 let's see if rick-home is online, I'll just say this and he'll react if so. Jan 29 17:24:15 we really need duck punching instead of file patching Jan 29 17:24:28 the themes idea is probably going to give birth to duck punching Jan 29 17:24:53 FreeTim: it's not mine, it's from the 1993 new yorker. http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.html Jan 29 17:24:56 at least open it up, but the tiny patches like "hide app" or "landscape" etc.. probably won't ever go away Jan 29 17:25:33 iSmite: this yahoo plugin...? Jan 29 17:25:34 so now you have a cartoon to print too :) Jan 29 17:25:42 yeah i gave u the path Jan 29 17:26:01 ./media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications Jan 29 17:26:09 I mean where/how did you get/install it Jan 29 17:26:32 from precentral its the only way i can get yahoo on my pre i installed it with quickinstall Jan 29 17:26:38 some bloke called greg Jan 29 17:27:17 link perchance? Jan 29 17:27:34 oh this is greg's stuff Jan 29 17:28:55 is greg maintaining that repository by chance? Jan 29 17:29:40 sorry do you still need the link Jan 29 17:30:03 nope Jan 29 17:30:23 apparently the firmware for america has yahoo but the european one does not Jan 29 17:30:26 hey guys, sorry to derail, but anyone know what this error could be? http://i47.tinypic.com/2rqhyya.png Jan 29 17:30:28 and i need it Jan 29 17:30:28 I'd rather not go back to mytether Jan 29 17:30:34 dBsooner: hunt down greg and see if we can get him to put his patch part of it to the webos-patches feed Jan 29 17:30:54 its binary Jan 29 17:30:57 i thought Jan 29 17:31:05 egaudet_work: well it's two pieces Jan 29 17:31:07 AnOutsider: yea it's an error telling you to use preware Jan 29 17:31:08 :p Jan 29 17:31:29 egaudet...i have a horrible feeling you are gonna tell me i cant have both... Jan 29 17:31:30 destinal-work: 2 pieces + individual plugins Jan 29 17:31:36 but he's split the patch into it's own ipk already Jan 29 17:31:41 right Jan 29 17:31:45 AnOutsider: why are you using wosqi... ? Jan 29 17:31:48 and it can "depend" on the other ipk's that are non-preware installable Jan 29 17:31:52 and there's luna patching too Jan 29 17:31:53 right Jan 29 17:32:00 s/luna/stock messaging app/ Jan 29 17:32:04 sorry Jan 29 17:32:11 well I'm about to go enable the beta feeds in preware. prob was terminal was bugging out Jan 29 17:32:13 so we can do this "right" within AUPT and not mess anything up for him Jan 29 17:32:15 so I just redoctored Jan 29 17:32:21 ~~~~ Jan 29 17:32:22 ARGH!!! STOP IT destinal-work!!! Jan 29 17:32:34 does the bot hate destinal-work Jan 29 17:32:41 oh, I said something between the two Jan 29 17:32:51 s/hate/really hate/ Jan 29 17:32:52 nt4cats meant: does the bot really hate destinal-work Jan 29 17:32:52 ~infobot sorry that wasn't your fault Jan 29 17:32:54 * infobot apologizes to that wasn't your fault Jan 29 17:33:02 lol Jan 29 17:33:11 bots got a guilt complex Jan 29 17:33:12 ~smack destinal-work Jan 29 17:33:13 * infobot smacks destinal-work upside the head. Jan 29 17:33:18 ~cake Jan 29 17:33:19 the cake is a lie!, or so delicious and moist Jan 29 17:33:23 :D Jan 29 17:33:28 awesome Jan 29 17:34:16 zsocwerkin: new you make me want to go break out Portal, it's on my steam account Jan 29 17:34:18 ~rwhitby Jan 29 17:34:19 rumour has it, rwhitby is the owner of the nslu2-linux mailing list and IRC channel. He tries to provide some order to the burgeoning development around the NSLU2. You can find his website at http://www.rwhitby.net (where in particular, you will find information on Serial Port modifications for the Linksys WRT54G and NSLU2 devices). Jan 29 17:34:22 s/new/now/ Jan 29 17:34:22 destinal-work meant: zsocwerkin: now you make me want to go break out Portal, it's on my steam account Jan 29 17:34:25 so for serious. when are we starting this theme revolution? Jan 29 17:34:42 ~zsoc Jan 29 17:34:46 i guess zsoc is the OWHE, original webos hacker extraordinaire, and don't forget it. Jan 29 17:34:52 lol Jan 29 17:35:29 ~whe Jan 29 17:35:30 rumour has it, whe is a WebOS Hacker Extraordinaire, which is what Joshua Topolsky called zsoc after he typed "make" one time... Jan 29 17:35:35 am i buggered then, metaphirocally Jan 29 17:35:39 ugh typo Jan 29 17:35:43 metaphorically Jan 29 17:36:03 iSmite: that is the preferred type of buggery Jan 29 17:36:10 iSmite: I'm totally not going there Jan 29 17:36:10 yes Jan 29 17:36:14 :P Jan 29 17:36:15 yes im not into that Jan 29 17:36:15 iSmite: no, there are ways to fix your issues Jan 29 17:36:24 infobot: think about it and see if you can find anything to add about zsoc. oh wait, you're not that smart. Jan 29 17:36:34 ~spin Jan 29 17:36:39 ~AnOutsider Jan 29 17:36:48 :'( Jan 29 17:37:12 i wish i could legit get yahoo without a dumb plugin palm are xenophobic i swear lol Jan 29 17:37:20 no app store for us and no yahoo Jan 29 17:37:51 anyone else always have problems loading the palm catalog feeds over EVDO? Jan 29 17:38:33 iSmite: well, the plugins are just libpurple plugins (like pidgin uses), so that's not dumb in that you can add all kinds of cool stuff that way Jan 29 17:38:37 infobot AnOutsider is the guy you blame when the prethemer feed won't load Jan 29 17:38:38 zsocwerkin: okay Jan 29 17:38:41 iSmite: but I agree Palm should include it stock Jan 29 17:38:54 so..can i get my sound thing and have yaho or not Jan 29 17:39:21 haha zsoc Jan 29 17:39:24 sound thing, I must have missed it Jan 29 17:39:39 iSmite: probably not, unless and until someone makes that patch compatible with the plugin patch Jan 29 17:39:39 iSmite: if both patches are MIT, combine them, reinstall Jan 29 17:39:44 i want a different sound to my text than to all my other notifications Jan 29 17:39:46 oh poo Jan 29 17:39:48 infobot: no, AnOutsider IS the reason the PreThemer feed won't load. Jan 29 17:39:49 okay, dBsooner Jan 29 17:40:06 combine? eh? how and whats mit Jan 29 17:40:09 this is why patching is evil Jan 29 17:40:10 dBsooner: oh god, you just defined 'no,' lol Jan 29 17:40:16 ~no Jan 29 17:40:24 ironically I enver have a problem with it. it's the palm feeds I have issues with. only deactivating themg ets preware to load Jan 29 17:40:27 ~no, Jan 29 17:40:35 ~dtzwill Jan 29 17:40:36 from memory, dtzwill is the master coder behind quake, VBA and the creator of the first homebrew screen overlay controls for SDL. Jan 29 17:40:42 ~AnOutsider Jan 29 17:40:43 rumour has it, anoutsider is the reason the PreThemer feed won't load. Jan 29 17:40:50 :) Jan 29 17:40:53 and the reason i spend hours playing pokemon Jan 29 17:41:00 dBsooner: oh, that's a workaround to forget? amazing. Jan 29 17:41:33 iSmite: MIT is a type of licensing which lets you reuse and rerelease the patch with no restrictions Jan 29 17:42:07 ok well theres no way i can combine them ive only had a pre 3 days Jan 29 17:42:09 ~no is not the answer. Apple is the question. No is the answer. Jan 29 17:42:11 i havent got a clue Jan 29 17:42:40 :( Jan 29 17:42:41 ~wake up bot. get confused and so on Jan 29 17:42:42 * infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on up bot. get confused and so on and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" Jan 29 17:43:04 hahahaha Jan 29 17:43:14 ~no Jan 29 17:43:19 ~yes Jan 29 17:43:20 i guess yes is the opposite of no Jan 29 17:43:30 ~no is the opposite of yes Jan 29 17:43:43 iSmite: a patch is just a patch, not webos specific Jan 29 17:43:49 ~no is also apparently a word you do not wish to learn. Jan 29 17:44:08 yes but ive never done anything like that i do graphic design not stuff like that, i can ssh in and put stuff in places and thats about it Jan 29 17:44:15 a few commands Jan 29 17:44:34 would someone be able to do it for me is it a big job Jan 29 17:46:54 hang on..cant i ssh into the messages app and just replace the music file in there? Jan 29 17:49:09 or wherever its stored Jan 29 17:49:39 only 1 hunk is conflicting Jan 29 17:49:40 actually can someone tell me the path of alert and notification sound files cos i need them anyway Jan 29 17:49:53 whatever you think that i can understand loll Jan 29 17:49:55 so it shouldn't be hard to make the sms patch compatible with greg's messaging patch Jan 29 17:50:05 just need to get someone to do it :P Jan 29 17:50:05 yeah but i aint got a clue for things like that Jan 29 17:50:07 yep Jan 29 17:51:11 um ill beg, maybe even do a little dance if anyone's feeling nice... Jan 29 17:51:13 :P Jan 29 17:51:14 rofl Jan 29 17:52:50 iSmite: the problem is, patching sucks, and you'd basically need someone to maintain this personal hybrid patch for you. this gets ugly really quickly Jan 29 17:53:09 actually this case would be very easy Jan 29 17:53:22 yes but it would need to be done for every new version potentially Jan 29 17:53:24 the patch in question just creates functions at the end of the file, and so does greg's Jan 29 17:53:45 so this patch can move it's functions to another spot in the file Jan 29 17:53:54 and then we really need to explore duck punching Jan 29 17:54:38 egaudet_work: it's a _really_ bad idea for js Jan 29 17:54:49 zsocwerkin: why IS that Jan 29 17:54:50 zsocwerkin: duck punching? Jan 29 17:54:52 *watches preware spinning loader with growing hate* Jan 29 17:54:57 I thiought duck punching was basically made FOR javascript Jan 29 17:55:03 I just found an old evas demo I created a long time ago Jan 29 17:55:21 well not for javascript specifically, but javascript type languages Jan 29 17:55:25 well ok if its too hard can i manually go in and change the text sound? Jan 29 17:55:33 actually 2 Jan 29 17:56:29 why is itunes so shit, cant find album covers to albums Jan 29 17:56:36 now ive got to piss about doing it manually Jan 29 17:56:50 its not like its an unknown band Jan 29 17:58:03 can someone just tell me where the alert and notification sound are Jan 29 17:58:23 http://xcomputerman.com/files/emotion_trans.c Jan 29 17:59:15 iSmite: are you just wanting to differentiate alert vs. notification? Jan 29 17:59:17 egaudet_work: the point is they are only as stable as they are written Jan 29 17:59:23 no Jan 29 17:59:38 but i want to know where the ssh path is anyway Jan 29 18:00:10 i dont get why every bloody nise on the thing is all one sound so i think ive got a text when its an im or missed call or anything its stupid Jan 29 18:00:21 the sms tone per contact patch allows a different tone for each contact for sms, i don't think any of that is supported in webos by default Jan 29 18:00:44 yeah all i want is my texts to have a different noise to notifications Jan 29 18:01:16 well in that case there is a patch for that Jan 29 18:01:27 zsocwerkin: patching is hideous, being able to wrap functions with replacements, especially at a modular level, would be great. in some cases though we may be forced to replace a whole function which for copyright reasons we'd need to totally rewrite from scratch Jan 29 18:01:54 oilsworkn: where have you beeeeen Jan 29 18:02:07 egaudet: plus we STILL have touching issues for multiple runtime patches. instead of failing on install, it would simple not work :p Jan 29 18:02:09 busy Jan 29 18:02:28 zsocwerkin: right Jan 29 18:02:41 where have you been? Jan 29 18:02:41 * nt4cats remembers when oilsworkn used to love us Jan 29 18:02:44 destinal-work: what about symlinking? Jan 29 18:02:45 there are situations where patching is better and situations where duckpunching is better Jan 29 18:03:04 * AnOutsider wonders if this preware issue isn't a focus/activation issue in 1.4 :( Jan 29 18:03:07 nt4cats: that was when we used mojo ;) Jan 29 18:03:22 lol Jan 29 18:03:26 AnOutsider: what? Jan 29 18:03:36 iSmite: Jan 29 18:04:10 preware -> available pacakge -> patch -> sounds and alerts -> Select Alert and Notification Tones is what you want Jan 29 18:05:08 no its not i had that, it just lets you change the tone Jan 29 18:05:20 that's what you just said you wanted Jan 29 18:05:26 but i want a DIFFERENT tone for texts it just does whatever i set for notifications Jan 29 18:05:38 i dont want everything to have the notification tone whatever i set it to Jan 29 18:06:02 u get me? Jan 29 18:06:27 she wants what the sms per contact patch provides Jan 29 18:06:47 ohh I see Jan 29 18:07:07 yeah every time it makes a noise its the same damn noise i dunno whether its a text, missed call, whatever Jan 29 18:07:10 yeah so someone needs to modify the patch to move the functions in that file and then it will work Jan 29 18:07:11 no other phone is like that Jan 29 18:07:20 :( Jan 29 18:07:44 i still need the ssh path please to sounds Jan 29 18:07:46 acydlord: you've obviously made a mistake. You said "she". There aren't any girls on the irc. Silly man! Jan 29 18:07:57 there isnt a correct version of sms tones per contact for the O2 pres? Jan 29 18:08:51 acydlord: one of the files conflicts with the patch in the messaging plugins pack Jan 29 18:08:58 s/the patch/a patch/ Jan 29 18:08:58 egaudet_work meant: acydlord: one of the files conflicts with a patch in the messaging plugins pack Jan 29 18:09:06 ahh Jan 29 18:09:13 they both add methods to the end of the file Jan 29 18:09:28 so it wouldn't be hard to make this one add the methods to a different spot in the file Jan 29 18:09:35 egaudet: what's the thinking for themes and patches goign forward? Jan 29 18:09:38 so installing the sms tones and then plugins woulnt work either i take it Jan 29 18:10:08 themes need to become real and not the crappy image replacement and patch stuff they are now Jan 29 18:10:26 so I've begun research upon PuffTheMagic's ideas, and have a good idea for a legit themeing app Jan 29 18:10:27 solution? Jan 29 18:10:31 well saurik was/is in here he knows lol Jan 29 18:10:34 he is in here Jan 29 18:11:24 he created the iphone theming app Jan 29 18:11:34 which is why i <3 him Jan 29 18:11:39 which is that? Jan 29 18:11:43 winterboard Jan 29 18:11:46 summerboard/winterboard? Jan 29 18:11:48 ah ok Jan 29 18:11:50 only winter Jan 29 18:11:54 summer was someone else Jan 29 18:12:07 Right now I have proof of concept that I can dynamically change launch icons, make a single patch to allow CSS changes/overwrites without patching Jan 29 18:12:14 was there ever an autumnboard or did they skip that? Jan 29 18:12:15 :) Jan 29 18:12:18 lol Jan 29 18:12:28 verycool Jan 29 18:12:30 AnOutsider: what things are being theme'd outside of launch icons and css? Jan 29 18:12:34 summerboard was ok but with winterboard hes enabled us to theme the entire ui Jan 29 18:12:46 all my initial attempts at an app just used file copying with a service. i assume you DONT want to go that route Jan 29 18:12:53 right Jan 29 18:13:04 well, there's patches too, but that's secondary Jan 29 18:13:06 I don't want to touch Palm files at all, at least as very minimal as possible Jan 29 18:13:10 egaudet, the ui like the phone background and all the little pngs on the meus etc loads of shit Jan 29 18:13:10 some users like to change fonts Jan 29 18:13:32 iSmite: that will all be possible with CSS overwrites I think Jan 29 18:13:41 same thing Jan 29 18:13:51 css? but a lot of those are pngs Jan 29 18:14:02 the CSS tells it where the png is ;) Jan 29 18:14:15 ah ok..i wonder if thats how winterboard works Jan 29 18:14:32 and in an iphone theme we have plists that change font size, colour, shadow, position Jan 29 18:14:40 so egaudet: your app idea is to intercept calls to the css or? Jan 29 18:14:47 AnOutsider: and with the service the icons can be changed right away, with no reboot Jan 29 18:14:59 iSmite: right. I've got a few iphone themes under my belt as well :) Jan 29 18:15:08 who are you then what forum Jan 29 18:15:12 ill know who u are Jan 29 18:15:16 ok that sounds good Jan 29 18:15:26 AnOutsider: the CSS portion would be a small patch to the framework to add a CSS from some THEMES_DIR/ for each css being loaded Jan 29 18:15:52 anoutsider what forum Jan 29 18:15:57 I've verified it works for a simple case of making THEME_DIR/ which changed something small like the color of the symbol popup selected char Jan 29 18:16:12 smart, so we'd just then have to know what filenames to replace and go Jan 29 18:16:15 iSmite: what forum? Jan 29 18:16:22 where do you post your themes Jan 29 18:16:50 AnOutsider: right, so instead of "patching file A" you'd make a new file A with only overwritten elements you want to modify, and then it'd go into your theme directory Jan 29 18:17:17 I envision the app being like the image viewer, choosing themes based on thumbnail/screenshot image Jan 29 18:17:35 iSmite: I don't... I'm not one for forums Jan 29 18:17:41 tho I did hang out on HoFo for a bit Jan 29 18:17:42 oh Jan 29 18:17:46 mine are all released Jan 29 18:17:49 on cydia and forums Jan 29 18:18:12 http://www.ithemer.com/Corkboard-theme23.html <-- the only one I ever made public Jan 29 18:18:23 and it's not really public since I enver publicly "released" the site Jan 29 18:18:51 egaudet: I think it's a great idea. very simple, and would also get things standardized Jan 29 18:19:03 ive had about 5 out Jan 29 18:19:07 working on one now Jan 29 18:19:10 we can then have users downloading themes and storing them so they can hotswap without redownloading Jan 29 18:19:17 for iPhone? Jan 29 18:19:18 yup Jan 29 18:19:22 yep Jan 29 18:19:25 and also the ability to add themes via drag/drop USB mode Jan 29 18:19:27 gave it up ages ago, the device just annoys me TBH Jan 29 18:19:31 lol Jan 29 18:19:32 as well as preware package installation Jan 29 18:19:41 ive got my iMac on right now fighting in xcode to re-submit this app to Crapple for the 500th time. Jan 29 18:19:54 sounds like a great solution Jan 29 18:20:04 egaudet: what sever would the themes be located on? Jan 29 18:20:15 well, I'll help in whatever way I can, but you guys seem to have it all good Jan 29 18:20:15 ok can i just ask something quick- itunes- ive got all my album covers showing how do i put them in the actual folders so the mp3s show up as the album cover i forgot how Jan 29 18:20:23 same as they are now I assume Jan 29 18:20:40 you mean the view mode? Jan 29 18:21:04 view -> ( as List | as Grid | coverflow ) Jan 29 18:21:04 in finder, when you open a folder full of music if correct, each file will show as the album cover Jan 29 18:21:07 you want grid I think Jan 29 18:21:09 no Jan 29 18:21:11 read above Jan 29 18:21:14 oh, finder, I dont use mac Jan 29 18:21:17 fuck Jan 29 18:21:28 well windows does the same doesnt it Jan 29 18:21:33 i cant remember how i did it Jan 29 18:21:45 how do i assign an album cover to a folder of music Jan 29 18:21:46 well in windows, you just chang folder view mode to be thumbnails Jan 29 18:21:49 no!! Jan 29 18:21:52 im not asking that Jan 29 18:21:55 then as long as the MP3 has artwork embedded, itll show the thumb Jan 29 18:21:58 yes Jan 29 18:22:01 how do i embed it Jan 29 18:22:12 they all have the cover in itunes Jan 29 18:22:23 in itunes, drag the art onto the mp3, or the tiny window on the left, or select all the mp3s u want, right click -> info Jan 29 18:22:27 drag it to the artwork tab Jan 29 18:22:39 if thwey ahve it in itunes, they should be in the mp3 Jan 29 18:22:44 they already have the covers on correctly in itunes Jan 29 18:22:48 not in the music folder though Jan 29 18:22:57 it worked before Jan 29 18:23:01 perhaps you have manage library disabled? in which case, I dont think itunes touches your mp3 files Jan 29 18:23:11 other than that, not sure, sorry man Jan 29 18:23:54 zsoc: I don't see why anything would change as far as theme storage Jan 29 18:24:00 yeah i just loked in get info and the artwork isnt in there yet it is showing in itunes wtf Jan 29 18:24:20 they'd be safer now with no patching, and since all you'd store is the zip or ipk or whatever on a server, I'd say things could continue as they are Jan 29 18:24:29 with appropriate changes to feed files Jan 29 18:25:13 aaargh why is this not working it usually works Jan 29 18:36:08 anyone ever get novaterm working in windows 7? Jan 29 18:36:16 without that annoying error message on every key stroke? Jan 29 18:40:56 AnOutsider: virtualbox. ubuntu. Jan 29 18:41:31 well as a workaround, I just used novacom Jan 29 18:41:40 novacom -t open tty:// Jan 29 18:42:14 skip virtual box and make ubuntu the host, a real OS :) Jan 29 18:42:21 AnOutsider: that works in windows? leet Jan 29 18:42:53 egaudet_work: I'm not going to suggest that to the average user Jan 29 18:43:32 ubuntu it, wrap windows in VB, life is good Jan 29 18:43:59 dual boot is good too for those rare times you need windows host :P Jan 29 18:44:26 egaudet_work: _need_ a windows host? for what? :p Jan 29 18:44:44 touche ;) Jan 29 18:45:35 dtzWill: buddy of mine wants TOGGLE turbo instead of momentary. possible? Jan 29 18:48:13 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/227715-some-minor-details-webos-1-4-a.html Jan 29 18:48:27 infobot: crickets are what you hear right now throughout the channel Jan 29 18:48:28 ...but crickets is already something else... Jan 29 18:48:36 egaudet_work: good work Jan 29 18:48:37 ~crickets Jan 29 18:48:39 * infobot chirps uninterestedly Jan 29 18:48:41 ha Jan 29 18:48:45 good work what? Jan 29 18:49:43 * egaudet_work is confused Jan 29 18:50:24 PuffTheMagic: egaudet: how is this theme architecture going to be implemented? service? Jan 29 18:50:33 magic Jan 29 18:50:47 C Service + Patch + App Jan 29 18:51:27 egaudet: er... what does the patch do? Jan 29 18:51:29 zsocwerkin: modify the framework a little so that themes can be selected similar to how "light/dark" is changed in preware Jan 29 18:51:35 but on a global scale Jan 29 18:51:56 PuffTheMagic: well that's how CSS is made to work anyway Jan 29 18:52:08 why didn't we do this before? Jan 29 18:52:24 do what? Jan 29 18:52:25 instead of app specific Jan 29 18:53:18 oilsworkn: teh power of CSS for instatheming Jan 29 18:54:44 why didnt we jump right to HTML5 instead of all that font stuff ;) Jan 29 18:55:13 AnOutsider: because it's not fully implemented? Jan 29 18:55:22 although fonts should work Jan 29 18:55:33 I think the answer is we aren't web developers lol Jan 29 18:56:13 my point was... everything is a progression Jan 29 18:56:36 that's like asking why we bothered with black&white Tv, why didnt we jump to LCD flatscreens Jan 29 18:57:19 im still curious how it's going to be done though. I mean, I know how CSS works (cascading and all), but I'd imagine, each app would need to be patched to reference the CSS? Jan 29 18:57:28 unless there's some higher up base class that defines path to css Jan 29 18:59:52 PuffTheMagic: well the patch will probably end u doing both Jan 29 19:01:20 install additional "themes" like -dark, which would require the theme to supply ALL Palm widget CSS. as well as allow each individual css stylesheet that is loaded to have parts overwritten by a theme, to allow themeing all apps using the default theme: as well Jan 29 19:01:54 The latter part is easier, the former is a little bit trickier although I have only briefly looked at that portion Jan 29 19:02:30 gotcha, and it makes sense given the nature of things Jan 29 19:02:41 excited for it. like I said, if you need help on anythng, just lemme know Jan 29 19:03:03 I imagine your efforts will mostly be spent on other things, but I've got a lot of CSS experience under my belt Jan 29 19:03:16 The css is loaded by a single framework function Jan 29 19:03:43 so simply loading an additional css file on top of the one its loading is my initial idea Jan 29 19:03:59 when that file is supplied by the theme of course. Jan 29 19:04:26 egaudet_work: er.. so wait, there's going to be 1 patch which modifies all files that can be edited by a theme? Jan 29 19:04:37 egaudet_work: or is the framework already there for that? Jan 29 19:04:53 AnOutsider: all this talk just started yesterday so it has a ways to go, but when it eventually gets to "testing" phase we'll need a few different themes that do many things to test with :) Jan 29 19:05:08 zsocwerkin: not following? "all files" Jan 29 19:05:18 egaudet_work: left4dead theme is super deep Jan 29 19:05:26 every single CSS that is "loaded" goes down to a single "loadStylesheet" call in the framework Jan 29 19:05:31 which supplies the path to teh css file Jan 29 19:05:45 egaudet_work: so every themeable file already uses that framework? Jan 29 19:05:48 the patch is going to load that css file and then check if THEME_DIR/ css file exists load that one too Jan 29 19:06:11 so every single CSS in the system can be overwritten by the theme Jan 29 19:06:29 and not entire css files either, you can make that csss file change one single class element Jan 29 19:07:11 There are bound to be cases where some apps change styles in JS but those are wrong imo Jan 29 19:11:18 egaudet_work: yeah of course global changes will propigate down to individual apps Jan 29 19:11:34 but i just mean its on a higher level than what is demonstrated in Prware Jan 29 19:12:50 what are we going to call this theming technology? Jan 29 19:15:58 lol Jan 29 19:16:01 technology? Jan 29 19:16:09 Prethemer :D Jan 29 19:17:11 zsocwerkin: Webos-Internals Theme API Jan 29 19:17:13 CTRA Technology Jan 29 19:17:26 its not technology Jan 29 19:17:34 CSS Transmogrification Redundant Arconym Technology Jan 29 19:18:02 they are just themes Jan 29 19:18:08 and a spec/api for the theme Jan 29 19:18:21 not much of a new technology Jan 29 19:19:33 It's not a technology it's an APP (at least to users perspective) Jan 29 19:19:45 but it doesn't sound cool unless you call it a technology Jan 29 19:20:17 egaudet_work : did u see this thread :http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/227298-virtual-keyboard-bad-battery-life.html Jan 29 19:20:59 JMyaDaGod: yea and at first glance I think it's probably bogus Jan 29 19:21:51 the only thing the VKB patch does while not being used is track gesture area "key events", but that isn't something that will drain a battery Jan 29 19:21:52 egaudet_work: [98.7% probability of being unrelated] I've noticed intermittent high CPU load on my Pre starting a week or ten days ago ... when it happens my battery drains VERY fast. Jan 29 19:22:28 egaudet_work: let me make sure it is still happening and then I'll uninstall VK for a few days just to prove it isn't you Jan 29 19:22:31 egaudet_work :yea i can never get a decent read on how long my battery last i just use multiple batteries ... I just know it doesnt last long b/c i am always doing something on it and im fine with that lol Jan 29 19:23:04 my battery usually does good, but once in a while some days it just flies out in a few hours Jan 29 19:23:47 egaudet_work: "flies out in a few hours" is exactly what I see here (I'd say a bout 10% downtick in battery level every 20-30 minutes) Jan 29 19:24:01 i prolly get 5 hours out of it ...but thats with email forwarded right away and me on internet in class lmao Jan 29 19:24:07 nt4cats: sign out of aim Jan 29 19:24:19 egaudet_work: I am not configured for AIM Jan 29 19:24:34 egaudet_work: and I *rarely* log my messaging app in to Google Jan 29 19:24:41 it was worth a shot :P Jan 29 19:24:50 I know AIM sucks battery Jan 29 19:27:20 egaudet_work: something on my Pre changed in the last two weeks -- I had very consistently good battery performance post-1.3.5 ... and then I got these intermittent power drains. Jan 29 19:27:52 with original pre battery and 3 centro batteries and car charger i never find myself with out a good battery.... Jan 29 19:28:20 egaudet_work: that's fine. Should be easy to export any theme in a new format Jan 29 19:28:23 egaudet_work: I don't think it is your app at all -- but (assuming my problem is the same as the forum poster's) that'd be a fairly easy thing to disprove (uninstall VK and see that battery drain is still happening) Jan 29 19:30:47 How do I remove patches from the command line? Jan 29 19:32:19 you don't! Jan 29 19:32:24 or Jan 29 19:32:35 you don't Jan 29 19:32:46 sdodson: what's the issue Jan 29 19:35:09 So let's get a name for this amazing theme app Jan 29 19:35:12 ThemeIT Jan 29 19:35:20 Cyclone Jan 29 19:36:12 egaudet_work: I rebooted my phone and now the lock screen isn't displaying properly. I'd like to remove patches and/or the theme to see if I can get things sane again. Jan 29 19:36:40 Preware not working for that? Jan 29 19:36:51 egaudet_work: Last thing I was doing was trying to updated my patches to the aupt versions. Jan 29 19:37:03 egaudet_work: how do i run preware on a phone that's locked? Jan 29 19:37:27 ooh you can't get in Jan 29 19:37:28 Prethemer! Jan 29 19:38:11 hehe Jan 29 19:38:40 egaudet_work: Ya, it's not a good situation. I'm close to doctoring it but i'd like to try to remove all patches first to see if that works. Jan 29 19:38:44 sdodson: what lock screen btw? Jan 29 19:39:40 egaudet_work: pin entry Jan 29 19:40:04 sdodson: well let's install/run EPR from command line then if you want? Jan 29 19:40:13 egaudet_work: sure Jan 29 19:40:24 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps update Jan 29 19:40:34 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install org.webosinternals.emergency-patch-recovery Jan 29 19:41:04 IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT=/media/cryptofs/apps sh /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.emegency-patch-recovery.postinst Jan 29 19:41:52 (after it's all done, restart luna) pkill LunaSysMgr Jan 29 19:42:06 egaudet_work: libraries/pdl.git is created now :D Jan 29 19:42:46 egaudet_work: do i have to have remounted the fs rw first? Jan 29 19:42:53 mv: cannot rename '/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.screenlock/app/controllers/securityconfig-assistant.js.webosinternals.orig': Read-only file system Jan 29 19:43:19 InstaThemer© Jan 29 19:43:55 I like that too Jan 29 19:43:59 or quite simply Jan 29 19:44:01 Theme Manager Jan 29 19:44:03 egaudet_work: NotByJasonThemes Jan 29 19:45:55 sdodson: yeah, mount -o remount,rw / Jan 29 19:46:29 egaudet_work: sweet, EPR worked, thanks Jan 29 19:46:34 zsocwerkin: thanks Jan 29 19:49:14 egaudet are instructions for running epr by hand from the command line on the wiki? I can see how this would be a useful thing to be able to send people to. Jan 29 19:49:42 rick-home: only if their lock screen is borked :p Jan 29 19:49:54 zsocwerkin -- so??? Jan 29 19:50:08 I'll betcha I can think of another reason. Jan 29 19:50:22 no one locks their screen? Jan 29 19:50:28 god no Jan 29 19:50:30 why would I ??? Jan 29 19:50:52 all it does is make it 1000 x harder to answeer a call or look something up Jan 29 19:50:55 < i dont lock my screen .....i would if i could get the driod dot screen lock just because it looks cool not for safety Jan 29 19:51:05 Should EPR be changed into a dependent package? THat on install installs a script on removal runs the script? Jan 29 19:51:15 and then the command line would be "run this script" Jan 29 19:51:23 THAT would be wonderful Jan 29 19:51:27 epr-bootstrap lol Jan 29 19:51:43 because sometimes, people for example, lose preware. Jan 29 19:51:54 Instead of going through all that, we just run epr-bootstrap. Jan 29 19:53:02 Well I guess it can't be a dependent pacakge of patches Jan 29 19:53:13 that kind of defeats its purpose Jan 29 19:54:20 but the "install epr-bootstrap" package could be the dependent Jan 29 19:54:29 i have 20gb in my trash can. Jan 29 19:54:32 itunes fail. Jan 29 19:54:39 who highlighted me Jan 29 19:54:52 mmm.. chainsaw infanticide logger maneuver... Jan 29 19:54:57 ugh i have theme as a highlight word worry. Jan 29 19:55:01 sorry Jan 29 19:55:09 PuffTheMagic: lol @ NBJT Jan 29 19:55:15 I like themes. Jan 29 19:55:19 so can someone just pls tell me the ssh path to notification and alert sounds pleease Jan 29 19:55:19 theme theme theme. Jan 29 19:55:25 InstaThemer hmm Jan 29 19:55:30 it dont work wen i have colloquy in front lol Jan 29 19:55:42 I want something catchy and cool and cool Jan 29 19:55:47 brb someone tell me that path whilst i thrash my housemate at pro evo YET AGAIN Jan 29 19:55:52 i rule at that Jan 29 19:55:53 if you like themes, how about you take over managing them???? Jan 29 19:55:53 like "ooooh" themessss Jan 29 19:55:54 :P Jan 29 19:56:12 Rick_work: you haven't heard the plan yet? Jan 29 19:56:28 iSmite: find /media | grep notification.wav Jan 29 19:56:34 plan? We have a plan now? I went to bed whilst you were debating the plan. Jan 29 19:56:51 Rick_work: plan is awesome. full of runtime patches Jan 29 19:56:54 * zsocwerkin ducks Jan 29 19:56:54 Is this the "patch the system so that it looks at a theme folder and checks to see if there are files there first" plan? Jan 29 19:57:05 Well no one has turned the plan down yet so I'm declaring it THE plan Jan 29 19:57:30 Rick_work: yeah, and last night I proved that I can change applications launch icons from a C service on the fly Jan 29 19:57:37 (and without reboot required they change!) Jan 29 19:58:00 but not check if there are files there first Jan 29 19:58:08 zsocwerkin: you know nothing. :P Jan 29 19:58:12 Rick_work: a global version of the palm vs. palm dark change Jan 29 19:58:14 ok maybe something Jan 29 19:58:22 destinal-work: I WAS MAKING A JEST Jan 29 19:58:29 I know how to type make :( Jan 29 19:58:31 for every single CSS loaded it will load the and THEME_DIR/ (if it exists) so you can overwrite any and all CSS classes you want Jan 29 19:58:37 So, how do you catch every reference to every image file that might be themed? Jan 29 19:58:38 zsocwerkin: lol, more than that Jan 29 19:59:01 Rick_work: if the exists in THEME_DIR/ then it's "themed" Jan 29 19:59:05 and use that icon instead Jan 29 19:59:10 ahhhh..... Jan 29 19:59:19 C service + inotify Jan 29 19:59:19 uh Jan 29 19:59:22 Rick_work: it's actually quite safe Jan 29 19:59:38 So we freaking QUIT REPLACING THE PALM FILES. Jan 29 19:59:49 Rick_work: right :) Jan 29 19:59:49 mmmhmmm Jan 29 19:59:51 Have we talked to the guy who wrote theme builder? Jan 29 19:59:58 Jason? Jan 29 19:59:59 destinal-pre: see it knew that :p Jan 29 20:00:10 oh it's Jason? Jan 29 20:00:14 yeah Jan 29 20:00:18 s/it/I, who am not a bot,/ Jan 29 20:00:20 zsocwerkin meant: destinal-pre: see I, who am not a bot, knew that :p Jan 29 20:00:44 oh goody. he just won't hang out here. Jan 29 20:00:49 have we contacted him yet? Jan 29 20:00:50 right lol Jan 29 20:00:52 no Jan 29 20:01:00 I only POC'd the 2 parts last night Jan 29 20:01:03 how hard is the code? Jan 29 20:01:13 he's ignored me for 3 days straight now Jan 29 20:01:27 but nothing hard will be needed from Jason or AnOutsider (and AnOutsider already likes the idea) Jan 29 20:01:33 Well, at least he ignored you Urgently Jan 29 20:01:57 because you know damned good and well that we can't implement this without a BIG WARNING that this is INCOMPATIBLE with WOSQI theme installs, and if you've done that, for GOD SAKE don't do this. Red, with a button to click through in preware. Jan 29 20:02:06 FreeTim: I generally ignore people fervently Jan 29 20:02:12 Rick_work: nope it won't be incompatible Jan 29 20:02:18 uh Jan 29 20:02:20 in the sense that it will cause issues Jan 29 20:02:38 rick-home: they can revert their theme the way they would do normally Jan 29 20:02:40 well, removing the preware installed theme leaves you with a wosqi theme still installed..... Jan 29 20:02:44 I mean bad issues that current themes cause :p Jan 29 20:02:51 right Jan 29 20:03:01 but we still need a warning. Jan 29 20:03:06 but that doesn't break anything Jan 29 20:03:06 I agree Jan 29 20:03:15 ours just 'wins' Jan 29 20:03:18 "WARNING: don't use anything else to theme" Jan 29 20:03:20 hehe Jan 29 20:03:31 If you've already installed a theme with wosqi or preware prior to DATE.... then remove it before you do this.... Jan 29 20:03:42 before or after won't matter Jan 29 20:03:49 kk Jan 29 20:03:53 it's really not bad. it's 100 times better than leaving a theme through OTA Jan 29 20:03:53 either way, remove it. Jan 29 20:04:00 nodnod Jan 29 20:04:12 no no, I -like- it. Jan 29 20:04:14 "if you don't want the palm default theme to be your preware/QI theme then REMOVE IT" Jan 29 20:04:19 bbiab Jan 29 20:04:20 'i left a theme installed and used InstaThemer, what I do do?'... 'remove your theme'... 'oh' Jan 29 20:04:32 i'm just thrying to get a handle on it. Jan 29 20:04:48 So, do the theme builders have to build a css file? or do we do that? Jan 29 20:05:13 ya know 2 days ago I was completely ignoring themes and wanted them to die out, then PuffTheMagic brings up the idea and now look where it's going :p Jan 29 20:05:32 Rick_work: the themers make the css files Jan 29 20:05:44 and we'll have to publish a spec..... Jan 29 20:05:48 the themer has to pick/choose/decide what css classes they want/need to change Jan 29 20:06:05 they did that originally by supplying entire modified CSS files Jan 29 20:06:09 then they changed to patching Jan 29 20:06:14 making a css file and overriding css classes is WAY more complex than replacing a file with a different file of the same name. Jan 29 20:06:39 now they'll change to overwriting JUST the css classes they need in a file with the exact same path as the palm one except within their theme dir Jan 29 20:06:58 Rick_work: how is it way more complex? Jan 29 20:07:05 nevermind Jan 29 20:07:07 I see pain Jan 29 20:07:13 it's ok, I'm used to idiots. Jan 29 20:07:19 Do we have a write-up yet? Jan 29 20:07:23 not yet Jan 29 20:07:42 "I see dumb people" Jan 29 20:07:45 Any one who is themeing without knowing what they are doing probably should stop Jan 29 20:07:45 :P Jan 29 20:07:46 lol Jan 29 20:07:46 can you toss a few words into the wiki under theme installer or something and point me to it. Jan 29 20:07:55 the users can be dumb, the devs/designers not so much Jan 29 20:08:08 just a quicky, and I'll try to edit into a spec???? Jan 29 20:08:25 Include your sample css..... Jan 29 20:08:32 OK what to name the page THEME API ? Jan 29 20:08:43 Theme Installer API Jan 29 20:08:45 egaudet_work: lol Jan 29 20:08:46 sorry Jan 29 20:08:55 Theme Management API Jan 29 20:08:58 either of those. Jan 29 20:09:00 coming up with a sample theme or 50 to steal would help them Jan 29 20:09:10 nodnod Jan 29 20:09:18 tmapi? Jan 29 20:09:27 InstaThemer Theme API Jan 29 20:09:27 yep Jan 29 20:09:28 xD Jan 29 20:09:35 nope zsoc Jan 29 20:09:36 tmapi Jan 29 20:09:54 I like that. Jan 29 20:10:45 er... tmapi's are 'top map's... Jan 29 20:11:03 oh,name collision? Jan 29 20:11:05 alas Jan 29 20:11:50 so, a theme BUILDER program would scan all the CSS files on the phone, looking for image files in the CSS and provide a list of them to pick from... and then let you choose a file on your drive somewhere and it would copy the file into the appropriate place under "mytheme" and put a line in mytheme.css that said themes/mytheme/yadayadayada/image.png Jan 29 20:11:58 thmapi Jan 29 20:12:16 ThMApi Jan 29 20:15:16 builder is good idea. Jan 29 20:15:49 have it make ipks while were at it Jan 29 20:15:54 wow this theme idea is really coming along nicely :) Jan 29 20:16:25 or a desktop ver that can Jan 29 20:25:40 http://www.webos-internals.org/index.php?title=Theme_Management_API&action=submit Jan 29 20:25:53 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Theme_Management_API Jan 29 20:25:54 woops Jan 29 20:25:57 Rick_work: ^^ Jan 29 20:26:10 got it Jan 29 20:26:52 the builder searching css for images is really good idea Jan 29 20:27:04 make it easier for designers to build themes without knowing any code Jan 29 20:27:29 but please we need to OSS it and get it doctor agnostic Jan 29 20:28:35 kk Jan 29 20:28:52 but I'm about to ask you a hundred bazillion questions now. Jan 29 20:29:11 good Jan 29 20:29:17 let's start with your section entitled theme designer api. Jan 29 20:30:47 So, I will have a folder /media/internal/tmapi_example/usr/palm/applictions..... Jan 29 20:31:05 ooops /media/internal/.themes/...... Jan 29 20:31:22 and within .themes might be theme1 theme2 theme3 etc right? Jan 29 20:31:39 right Jan 29 20:32:02 how does the C service know which theme is active? Jan 29 20:32:33 I'd imagine the app adjusts the pointer Jan 29 20:32:36 I'm thinking "active theme" will be /var/active_theme -> sym link Jan 29 20:32:45 ok Jan 29 20:32:49 which will sym link to one of those dirs Jan 29 20:32:51 and the pointer is a symlink, good idea Jan 29 20:32:57 theme1, theme2, etc... Jan 29 20:32:58 so you can only have one theme at a time active. Jan 29 20:33:02 right Jan 29 20:33:19 so I can't load a "theme the phone" theme and a "theme the launcher" theme from two different sources. Jan 29 20:33:41 that's fine, as long as I know. Jan 29 20:33:56 So, there has to be a "theme manager" app which selects which of the installed themes is active. Jan 29 20:34:11 yep, and THUMBNAILS! Hehe Jan 29 20:34:15 right Jan 29 20:34:28 * zsocwerkin pretends to be a part of this Jan 29 20:34:29 I'm thinking right now the theme app will be thumbnails of screenshots of the launcher with the theme installed Jan 29 20:34:36 and you select them kind of like how you apply wallpaper Jan 29 20:34:42 and in /media/internal/.themes/theme1 there MUST be a file called "description.html" which contains the description of the theme... Jan 29 20:35:09 i wouldn't say MUST, but it would be a good idea Jan 29 20:35:12 egaudet some themes don't mess with launcher, some mess primarily with the dialpad. Jan 29 20:35:38 ok, so if there is no description.html then the theme manager says "Theme1: No description available." Jan 29 20:35:41 We can also think about splitting up theming into categories Jan 29 20:35:46 like "launcher, dialpad" etc... Jan 29 20:35:54 currently I'm thinking of themes as a system-wide theme Jan 29 20:36:03 that's fine. System wide works fro me. Jan 29 20:36:04 finer grained can come afterwards Jan 29 20:36:06 just checking Jan 29 20:36:09 yup Jan 29 20:36:21 I wasn't even thinking about dialpad only type of things so it's good you brought it up Jan 29 20:36:57 ok, so then, /framework/global.css has a css entry that points to /user/palm/applications/phone/dialpad/1.png Jan 29 20:37:07 and I put a new 1.png in my matching folder. Jan 29 20:37:23 How does the C service know to overwrite that 1.png? Jan 29 20:38:22 Rick_work: overwrite? Jan 29 20:38:27 whatever. Jan 29 20:38:47 how does it know to re-direct from the default 1.png to MY 1.png and yet the 2.png through because I didn't replace it. Jan 29 20:39:07 do I have to have an edit for the 1.png css in my global.css? because eric's example didn't say so.... Jan 29 20:39:09 Rick_work: I believe that's what the patch does. 'if exists' else regular Jan 29 20:39:40 so you apply the patch, if you don't use instathemer, no harm done Jan 29 20:40:00 morning Jan 29 20:40:15 but if I want to I can override the css for 1.png and set height and width and etc. Jan 29 20:40:19 Morning rwhitby Jan 29 20:40:30 are you home yet? Jan 29 20:41:16 I'm in the right country, but 1292 miles from home. Jan 29 20:42:00 still a flight away huh? Jan 29 20:42:04 in an airport? Jan 29 20:42:09 its a big country Jan 29 20:43:02 it is a big country. Jan 29 20:43:19 oh, by the way, happy Kansas Day everyone. Jan 29 20:43:55 Rod missed au day while he was in Japan. :( Jan 29 20:44:19 Ks day is being celebrated with a snow storm. :) Jan 29 20:44:24 egaudet back to work sorry. Jan 29 20:44:50 I remember Narita airport had some kind of Sprint hotspot Jan 29 20:44:53 So, egaudet your C service will dynamically redirect css calls to 1.png if it exists in the theme directory.... Jan 29 20:44:57 back in 2008 Jan 29 20:45:10 (matching path and everything...) Jan 29 20:45:46 and we don't have to do any "patching" of css files at all, so if a theme is JUST swapping images, there's nothing more to it than dropping the images into the right place..... no css writing at all. Jan 29 20:46:05 rwhitby must be here Jan 29 20:46:14 cuz I just got 3 twitter followers Jan 29 20:46:20 well, for some value of "here." Jan 29 20:46:23 lol Jan 29 20:47:10 Rick_work: at least yours didnt' start as an ice storm Jan 29 20:47:18 we had an inch of ice first Jan 29 20:47:22 now 8 inches of snow Jan 29 20:47:30 and no signs of stopping Jan 29 20:47:39 Rick_work: two flights and 11 hours away from home. Jan 29 20:47:56 (awful connections on this trip's return leg) Jan 29 20:48:05 rwhitby that seems unfair. 1200 miles, 2 hours by commercial jet. -- :( Jan 29 20:48:36 Cairns to Adelaide is a bit more than 2 hours even as the crow flies. Jan 29 20:49:33 dBsooner at least Ok was smart enough to enter the union on April 22. Jan 29 is NEVER a good day for a celebration unless it's VERY indoors. :) Jan 29 20:49:39 rwhitby ok, ok, 3 hours. Jan 29 20:49:52 but 11 seems unfair -- really BAD connections. Jan 29 20:50:18 egaudet did you see my question? Jan 29 20:50:37 its a nice day in co Jan 29 20:50:43 commercial jets go around 400-500 mph Jan 29 20:50:58 im still working though Jan 29 20:51:02 driving down the road at 20 mph Jan 29 20:51:04 if I put 1.png in the right path, that's absolutely all I have to do, the c service magically replaces it with the one in the path, and no css editing. Jan 29 20:51:08 in a 50mph zone Jan 29 20:51:16 did someone tell me where the ssh path was Jan 29 20:51:46 did we lose eric? Jan 29 20:55:37 egaudet egaudet_work ping ???? Jan 29 20:55:56 ok, destinal-work can YOU answer that question???/ Jan 29 20:56:13 Rick_work: let me read it Jan 29 20:57:17 I think the idea was patching css files ONCE for all themes and then moving a symlink to point the dir the css points at to the right place Jan 29 20:58:00 destinal-work so every time the global.css changes, we have to re-do the master Jan 29 20:58:36 destinal-work and this allows only themeing things that are in global.css -- no mechanism for theming applications Jan 29 20:59:15 as far as I know, yes, but I haven't been involved in the entire process, just talked about parts Jan 29 20:59:24 ((I'm not complaining, I'm asking)) Jan 29 20:59:28 moving around actual images is messy Jan 29 20:59:33 we were trying to avoid that Jan 29 20:59:37 understood. Jan 29 20:59:46 I'm not complaining, I'm getting my head around this. Jan 29 21:00:11 So, this is a mechanism for theming anything that is pointed to in Global.css. or whatever list of CSS files we choose to support. Jan 29 21:00:44 and we will ONCE edit those, and change paths to /media/internal/.themes/activetheme which will be a symlink to SOME theme. Jan 29 21:00:51 right Jan 29 21:01:06 and if the files aren't there, if the theme fails to incclude some file, it will auto-fall-back to the original file..... Jan 29 21:01:24 I think that's what they were talking about making the service handle Jan 29 21:02:02 so, the service goes through and scans for images with the "right" names, in the "right" places and modifies the global.css to point to them. Jan 29 21:02:56 Rick_work: I was under the impression the service just switches the symlink Jan 29 21:02:58 I'm not sure on that at the moment. I think the idea was to handle it by symlink instead, again, we only want to patch once Jan 29 21:03:14 Rick_work: and there is a 1 time global css patch Jan 29 21:03:36 zsocwerkin ok, I'm confused again. Jan 29 21:03:49 it could be possible a service could fix a theme with missing images by symlinking its files as well as the symlink to the active dir Jan 29 21:04:03 zsocwerkin I have included in my theme new images for 0.png through 9.png -- but not dialbutton.png Jan 29 21:04:19 how do you write a css file that "falls through" to the other file? Jan 29 21:04:45 you don't Jan 29 21:04:55 ok let me try again. Jan 29 21:04:55 you just symlink any missing files to defaults Jan 29 21:05:00 ouch Jan 29 21:05:08 ok.... Jan 29 21:05:12 let me try again.... Jan 29 21:05:14 is that bad? Jan 29 21:05:18 no no it's fine. Jan 29 21:05:32 it's just that i'm trying to write a description of what you want to do.... Jan 29 21:05:51 ok.... Jan 29 21:06:24 so I'm not sure if it's 100% nailed down whether there will be one directory full of symlinks or a directory that symlinks to the theme, the latter has issues with fall back if missing Jan 29 21:06:45 which could be handled once on theme installation Jan 29 21:06:49 1) We take global.css -- and anything else we want to be able to theme, and edit them one time so that every file name points to /media/internal/.themes/activetheme Jan 29 21:07:09 ye Jan 29 21:07:26 2) we take our IPK and extract it into /media/internal/.themes/mytheme Jan 29 21:07:40 3) we run the "Theme Management Tool" Jan 29 21:07:50 I think /media/internal doesn't work for fall back if missing Jan 29 21:07:55 4) the theme management tool presents us with a list of themes installed int he .theme folder. Jan 29 21:08:17 since it's vfat and we can't symlink FROM it Jan 29 21:08:22 destinal-work: no no, not if missing, if EXISTS Jan 29 21:08:23 fine destinal-work -- change that line to whatever folderyou like /activetheme whatever. Jan 29 21:08:41 .. /var/activetheme Jan 29 21:09:11 fine Jan 29 21:09:28 5) theme management tool lets you select which theme you want as active. Jan 29 21:10:13 6) that calls the c-service which then goes to mytheme and iterates through allthe image files in all the folders there. Jan 29 21:10:42 7) the c-service figures out which files are "missing" from the master list of files which are in the mytheme directory, and symlinks THOSE files back to the originals. Jan 29 21:10:50 nono, I'm pretty sure all the service does is symlinks the folder to /var/active_theme Jan 29 21:10:56 8) the c-service then symlinks mytheme to /var/activetheme.... Jan 29 21:11:24 zsocwerkin how does the css fall back to the missing files originals then???? Jan 29 21:11:37 I think the service is being given too much credit. the if_missings should happen in the css patch Jan 29 21:12:08 or rather, if exists Jan 29 21:12:42 ie, leave the css class ultimately the same, but use an if_exists for the active_theme folder, else continue Jan 29 21:12:50 how do you write an if in css????? Jan 29 21:12:58 er, in javascript Jan 29 21:13:22 (eric is supposed to chime in before I eat my feet) Jan 29 21:13:29 zsocwerkin I thought we were avoiding re-writing the css file every time... ?? Jan 29 21:13:53 zsocwerkin you're saying that we go through and re-write the munged css file so that it points to this one OR that one.. depending on if missing.... Jan 29 21:14:45 as part of the install process of the theme management app Jan 29 21:15:08 (which requires writing a file, which means we have to run a binary to do that, since mojo javascript can't write files.) Jan 29 21:15:47 you're right Jan 29 21:16:46 Rick_work: ok, each theme MUST have a global.css Jan 29 21:16:51 so, honestly, it makes sense to just re-write the munged global.css in the binary app in the first place.... Jan 29 21:17:07 Rick_work: which only has methods that are applicable to that theme Jan 29 21:17:13 zsocwerkin ok.... Jan 29 21:17:45 So, Jan 29 21:18:31 Rick_work: nope nevermind, I'm wrong again Jan 29 21:18:46 zsocwerkin we have to pick something. Jan 29 21:18:49 Rick_work: the service has to do some magic. like you were saying Jan 29 21:19:02 egaudet_work: stop being at work Jan 29 21:19:43 zsocwerkin: whats new re: sdl_gl Jan 29 21:19:58 zsocwerkin -- go look at the wiki -- theme management api Jan 29 21:20:01 please???? Jan 29 21:20:07 PuffTheMagic: xcomp has it working Jan 29 21:20:15 nice Jan 29 21:20:19 Rick_work: I did, that's written as a spec for themers Jan 29 21:20:20 i am so pumped Jan 29 21:20:37 zsocwerkin ok, then look at the section that says OVERWRITE CSS CLASSES Jan 29 21:20:47 The next part of themeing will be overwriting CSS classes (of any app's stylesheet as well as Palm stock global stylesheets). This will require a small patch to the framework to load a theme's CSS on top of any css being loaded. Jan 29 21:21:06 Rick_work: right. a 1 time patch Jan 29 21:21:14 urgh pre dont read rtf files Jan 29 21:21:25 iSmite correct -- which sucks Jan 29 21:21:47 thats ok i changed my porny story into pdf.... Jan 29 21:21:48 ;D Jan 29 21:21:50 zsocwerkin I'm going to try editing this on the wiki now..... Jan 29 21:22:16 egaudet_work: i cant beleive you have already stuff working re: themes cause typically when i spurt out an idea around here its met with mass objection and in the time we would normally be arguing u already have stuff working Jan 29 21:23:05 can i ask my question for the 10th time lol ill go away then i just want the ssh path to notification and alert sounds :P Jan 29 21:23:12 just ask Jan 29 21:23:21 ahhh Jan 29 21:23:28 you want the path to the sounds.... Jan 29 21:24:25 i did ask lol 10 times Jan 29 21:24:47 mine got overwritten Jan 29 21:24:49 iSmite: I gave you the command to find it Jan 29 21:24:51 when i installed a patch Jan 29 21:24:55 sorry i didnt see Jan 29 21:25:13 usr/palm/sounds/ Jan 29 21:25:16 thanks Jan 29 21:25:17 it's usr/palm/sounds/ Jan 29 21:25:32 oh, /usr, hmm ok hehe Jan 29 21:25:52 PuffTheMagic: what was your conceptual idea as far as core patching? Jan 29 21:26:12 zsocwerkin: regarding themes? Jan 29 21:26:21 PuffTheMagic: not the app or the theme directy symlinks, just the 'if exists else use original' part Jan 29 21:26:55 zsocwerkin: i was actually thinking of just modifying the palm css Jan 29 21:27:06 and adding a root stylesheet to everything Jan 29 21:27:15 with a path to some directory Jan 29 21:27:21 PuffTheMagic: rick challenged that with 'how do you do ifs in css' Jan 29 21:27:23 which is really a symlinnk to a theme directory Jan 29 21:27:33 zsocwerkin: u dont need to do ifs in css Jan 29 21:27:44 the css always points to the same foldter Jan 29 21:27:46 folder Jan 29 21:27:49 PuffTheMagic: what if that directory doesn't contain every image Jan 29 21:28:02 zsocwerkin: then the default its used Jan 29 21:28:07 how? Jan 29 21:28:09 PuffTheMagic how????? Jan 29 21:28:15 what decides that Jan 29 21:28:45 idk Jan 29 21:28:46 i have a problem, my sounds are still in there and they are correct but when i installed that patch to change them, they have stayed changed even though i uninstalled the patch Jan 29 21:28:46 global symlinks to active theme directory? Jan 29 21:28:54 LOL at 'idk' hehe Jan 29 21:28:59 so i still have custom notification sound Jan 29 21:29:14 zsocwerkin: i havent thought about every aspect yet Jan 29 21:29:28 iSmite: it's because your 'new' sounds are changed to the regular name, ie Notification.wav Jan 29 21:29:33 i just threw out some ideas of how it might work Jan 29 21:29:45 no they arent i sshed them out they are the originals Jan 29 21:29:46 PuffTheMagic that's what we're beating out now. Jan 29 21:29:49 never expected it was going to be implemented is less than 24hrs Jan 29 21:29:53 How to install "partical" themes. Jan 29 21:29:56 partial Jan 29 21:30:14 iSmite -- then you have a patched file pointing to some OTHER sounds.... Jan 29 21:30:19 oh crap Jan 29 21:30:24 even though i removed the paych Jan 29 21:30:25 t Jan 29 21:30:27 Rick_work: so maybe its gonna need a little js ;) Jan 29 21:30:37 i also removed the 'other' sounds Jan 29 21:30:42 the patch didn't unremove iSmite Jan 29 21:30:56 everything is back to original not even any custom sounds anywhere in the pre Jan 29 21:30:56 Rick_work: something needs to decide what to do if the file isn't available in the directory Jan 29 21:31:04 we could use aufs :D Jan 29 21:31:20 zsocwerkin I'm working on it. Give me 10 minutes and I'll have a write up. Jan 29 21:31:26 and we can bash on it again. Jan 29 21:31:30 mount the theme over the default path as a transparent overlay Jan 29 21:31:33 :D Jan 29 21:31:37 ... no Jan 29 21:31:40 :D Jan 29 21:31:42 hell yea Jan 29 21:31:51 PuffTheMagic it would have to overlay ROOT.... Jan 29 21:31:52 we can install a kernel module Jan 29 21:31:52 nope its still there, damn Jan 29 21:31:59 ... no Jan 29 21:32:11 zsocwerkin: come on it would be so sweet Jan 29 21:32:27 this is supposed to be less intrusive Jan 29 21:32:30 iSmite -- which sounds were you patching? and to what files? Jan 29 21:32:44 zsocwerkin: there is completly uninstrusive Jan 29 21:32:51 i used the notification patch so i could choose what to have as the notification sound Jan 29 21:32:54 s/there/it/ Jan 29 21:32:54 PuffTheMagic meant: zsocwerkin: it is completly uninstrusive Jan 29 21:33:03 now i have removed custom sounds and the patch Jan 29 21:33:05 crashing kernel modules = doctor your phone Jan 29 21:33:10 its still playing the custom sound lol Jan 29 21:33:13 zsocwerkin: no! Jan 29 21:33:33 zsocwerkin: kernel modules hardly crash the whole kernel Jan 29 21:33:38 very very rarely Jan 29 21:34:37 iSmite reboot Jan 29 21:34:43 i did Jan 29 21:34:52 iSmite: reinstall the patch that did it, and uninstall it again Jan 29 21:34:59 i did Jan 29 21:35:01 lol Jan 29 21:35:04 this is weird Jan 29 21:35:04 what type of file is it mp3 or wave? Jan 29 21:35:19 ohh hang on somethings happened now i have no sounds Jan 29 21:35:23 ill reboot again Jan 29 21:35:26 GOOD... Jan 29 21:35:32 then you get to put the default ones back Jan 29 21:35:38 zsocwerkin: im dead serious though, aufs would make this super clean and easy Jan 29 21:35:55 PuffTheMagic that may actually work. Jan 29 21:36:21 is 'luna restart' the equivalent of a respring on the iphone? Jan 29 21:36:44 we would need to overlay /usr/palm/applications and /media/internal/cryptofs/usr/palm/applications Jan 29 21:36:46 Rick_work: and palm could implement that too, considering they used cryptofs they might like this idea Jan 29 21:36:51 iSmite: restarts gui, yeah Jan 29 21:36:56 ah ok thanks Jan 29 21:37:17 Rick_work: yes YES! ok I'm on board again lol Jan 29 21:37:26 zsocwerkin that's actually clever. Jan 29 21:37:27 zsocwerkin: haha Jan 29 21:37:48 how hard is it to mount an overlay that way? Do we have to install anything special to the phone, is aufs already there? Jan 29 21:38:07 Rick_work: i dont believe aufs is on the phone Jan 29 21:38:13 Rick_work: buts its easy to build modules for it Jan 29 21:38:33 how hard is it to install and set up? Jan 29 21:38:37 and it would be easy to make WIDK build modules Jan 29 21:38:58 Rick_work: it's a project to develop, user implementation is easy but requires a full restart Jan 29 21:39:06 so we could make the installation and set up of it part of the Theme manager app. Jan 29 21:39:09 Rick_work: not terribly hard, definately something that could be thrown in to event.d file or managed byt the service Jan 29 21:39:26 so it could happen as part of the postinst when you install theme manager.... Jan 29 21:39:27 Rick_work: prolly the service Jan 29 21:39:40 should be a dep anyway Jan 29 21:39:44 kk Jan 29 21:40:04 yeah aufs kernel module would be its own package Jan 29 21:40:08 so it could happen as part of the postinst when you install theme manager.... Jan 29 21:40:31 ok. Jan 29 21:40:39 Rick_work: yeah but if are gonna have a service it make more sense to let the service maintain it Jan 29 21:41:00 PuffTheMagic but when we install theme manager, it could put all the bits in place. Jan 29 21:41:07 the service would RUN it . Jan 29 21:41:13 but all the bits would be there.... Jan 29 21:41:21 as a dependency of theme manager. Jan 29 21:41:56 Rick_work: well the ipkg for the service woudl also dependon the ipk for aufs, and yeah the service would then be able to use aufs Jan 29 21:42:04 in this context, then, if you want to just change an image, all you have to do is toss it in the right place with the right file name. Jan 29 21:42:16 right Jan 29 21:42:31 ok Jan 29 21:42:37 that's fine for images. Jan 29 21:42:42 Now let's talk about css files. Jan 29 21:42:48 it works for the css too Jan 29 21:42:56 ohhh shit Jan 29 21:42:58 ahhhh wait for a minute puff.. Jan 29 21:43:00 right Jan 29 21:43:02 lol Jan 29 21:43:03 light dawns. Jan 29 21:43:22 they have to include a PATCHED GLOBAL.CSS if we did this. Jan 29 21:43:23 Rick_work: sed magic? Jan 29 21:43:23 right? Jan 29 21:43:27 nope Jan 29 21:43:29 ok i rebooted and i still have no sound! Jan 29 21:43:34 the sounds are there in sounds Jan 29 21:43:45 iSmite so it's not looking there.... Jan 29 21:43:50 you still have patched code. Jan 29 21:44:07 puff -- we ONE TIME modify framework Jan 29 21:44:16 so that in addition to calling global.css it calls theme.css Jan 29 21:44:22 and theme.css is SPARSE Jan 29 21:44:31 and contains ONLY the css you want to override. Jan 29 21:44:32 why dont patches uninstall properly? whats the point in having an uninstall option if it doesnt completely uninstall Jan 29 21:44:41 now I see why we haven't done this before Jan 29 21:44:42 Rick_work: right Jan 29 21:44:43 iSmite we're working on that. Jan 29 21:44:43 ok Jan 29 21:44:54 iSmite: I believe you uninstalled it improperly? :) Jan 29 21:44:55 Rick_work: that is sorta what i thought was possible Jan 29 21:45:06 how? i clicked uninstall in preware Jan 29 21:45:07 zsocwerkin that's why I've been saying for a gazillion days that themes suck. Jan 29 21:45:09 lol Jan 29 21:45:12 Rick_work: well if we go back to that then we dont need aufs Jan 29 21:45:13 what else am i meant to do Jan 29 21:45:16 they're horrifically complex. Jan 29 21:45:18 iSmite: did you both install and uninstall through preware? Jan 29 21:45:19 and symlinks manager would work again Jan 29 21:45:21 yes Jan 29 21:45:48 iSmite: that is uncommon Jan 29 21:45:54 puff yeah, but the problem with THAT is, that building a theme that JUST does images now requires editing the image paths in the sparse css. Jan 29 21:46:16 iSmite: oh, you may have to reinstall the patch, and reselect the original sound bytes, then uninstall Jan 29 21:46:20 we've increased the requirements to do a theme to about 6x the complexity Jan 29 21:46:24 Rick_work: yeah but that is way easier than aufs Jan 29 21:46:31 kk Jan 29 21:46:33 you cant select the original ones though Jan 29 21:46:33 its not that complex Jan 29 21:46:37 then that's how I'll write it up. Jan 29 21:46:46 gimme a minute or two. Jan 29 21:48:07 PuffTheMagic: wait, how is the distinction made to pick out image files? Jan 29 21:48:18 zsocwerkin I got that part Jan 29 21:48:20 I'm typing Jan 29 21:48:34 iSmite http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Changes_Alert/Notification_Sounds Jan 29 21:48:42 kk Jan 29 21:48:59 zsocwerkin: i am not the css expert Jan 29 21:49:01 just change the paths BACK to /usr/palm/sounds instead of /media/internal Jan 29 21:49:19 zsocwerkin it's going to be a SPARSE css file Jan 29 21:49:24 u should replace me with oil in this convo Jan 29 21:49:30 which ONLY includes the classes you want to overwrite. Jan 29 21:49:44 sparse... err... sql database? Jan 29 21:49:45 then, there's just ONE symlink. Jan 29 21:50:17 *CSS_Guy = oil Jan 29 21:50:39 rick_work can i jchange the extension to wav though Jan 29 21:50:41 zsoc -- if all I'm overwriting is the 1.png image my theme.css will contain just one class -- dialer1 which will point to /var/activetheme/yadayada/1.png instead of /usr/palm/yadayada/1.png Jan 29 21:50:48 im trying to use the originals not put more mp3s in Jan 29 21:50:51 iSmite change whatever you like Jan 29 21:50:52 Rick_work: so like a css overlay? didn't know those existed... so basically an if_exists Jan 29 21:51:03 that page tells you how to do it Jan 29 21:51:08 got it Jan 29 21:51:17 zsocwerkin CASCADING STYLE SHEETS Jan 29 21:51:25 this is the "overriding" style sheet. Jan 29 21:51:29 last css to be opened Jan 29 21:51:33 it overrides the default one. Jan 29 21:51:34 overrides the first Jan 29 21:51:40 if you have to you use an !IMPORTANT Jan 29 21:51:47 Lumiere nodnodnod Jan 29 21:52:28 I'd need to see an example. Jan 29 21:52:35 if it works in that manner itsperfect Jan 29 21:53:27 it does. Jan 29 21:53:46 that's why you can change truncating-text in your app and have it override the default truncating-text from global Jan 29 21:54:01 zsocwerkin: the whole point of CSS Jan 29 21:54:09 is you define "table" with a border of 0 Jan 29 21:54:09 so im gonna have to keep that stupid patch grr i just wanted to default Jan 29 21:54:24 then you define table tr td with a border of 1 Jan 29 21:54:53 if something doesn't override Jan 29 21:54:59 you throw "!important" Jan 29 21:55:06 and it raises the value of it Jan 29 21:56:51 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Theme_Management_API Jan 29 21:57:00 still working, but I'm getting there. Jan 29 21:57:16 Lumiere: never knew, that's cools Jan 29 21:57:38 zsocwerkin: css is one of the prettiest designs I have seen Jan 29 21:57:45 it is absurdly simple Jan 29 21:57:49 and incredibly powerful Jan 29 21:58:25 Lumiere: I know. just never used that functionality Jan 29 22:00:48 ok, zsocwerkin PuffTheMagic Lumiere refresh http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Theme_Management_API and read what I got so far. Jan 29 22:02:13 Rick_work: may I suggest that you find a way to automate this? Jan 29 22:02:26 hi, I need some help Jan 29 22:02:37 my phone decided to be a fish Jan 29 22:02:54 white w/ red battery icon and won't go past that Jan 29 22:02:55 A2NY: remove the battery and let it dry for a week Jan 29 22:03:00 Lumiere yes, but we have to have a SPEC before we write code. Jan 29 22:03:16 A2NY it got wet? Jan 29 22:03:19 Rick_work: that does look good Jan 29 22:03:29 can I start up the phone with the battery removed ? Jan 29 22:03:46 I know there is code some where to specify dummy battery Jan 29 22:03:47 A2NY Pull the battery -- and put it in a bag of rice for 48 to 72 hours. Jan 29 22:03:54 you have to dry out the guts. Jan 29 22:04:01 maybe instead of the themeXXXXX do globals/XXXXX.css Jan 29 22:04:35 if it was me, I would pull the battery and flush the phone with distilled water, then fling it as dry as you can and put it in a bag of rice for 48 to 72 hours. Jan 29 22:05:01 A2NY if you can't wait that long, and you have insurance on the phone, and are willing to pay the 100 dollar deductable, go to sprint store. Jan 29 22:05:34 will sprint swap it, this phone is already from asurion Jan 29 22:06:12 Rick_work: then there is less parsing to do Jan 29 22:06:19 just check the globals folder Jan 29 22:06:43 Lumiere ok, that makes sense. Jan 29 22:07:01 Lumiere gimme about 5 minutes more and I'll let you edit htis thing ok? Jan 29 22:07:10 * Lumiere notes this screams for something like dBsooner's patch system Jan 29 22:07:17 Lumiere: I like you Jan 29 22:07:32 zsocwerkin: lazy is good? Jan 29 22:07:43 Lumiere agreed, we need to write an "auto-theme-builder" but we have to have a SPEC first. Jan 29 22:08:03 I love that SPEC has to be in caps ;) Jan 29 22:08:32 * Lumiere notes that doing requirements documents is his day job Jan 29 22:11:02 Lumiere I have random capticalization disease Jan 29 22:11:08 I've fought it my whole life. Jan 29 22:11:14 totally understand ;) Jan 29 22:11:49 Lumiere refresh please, and edit to your heart's content. Jan 29 22:12:17 if we all get agreed on this part, then we can spec the theme-manager app, and the theme-builder app. Jan 29 22:13:15 but we have to have an API first..... Jan 29 22:13:30 I'll do it from home Jan 29 22:13:38 Lumiere ok Jan 29 22:13:46 I'll tweak for a bit, but I think we're close. Jan 29 22:13:59 k Jan 29 22:21:08 zsocwerkin would you go look at it now please? Jan 29 22:22:04 So when I do phone updates it says Apps need to be updated, then it takes me to the Palm Catalog, lists all my apps (with nothing special about updating any of them) Jan 29 22:22:05 Rick_work: you have a 'now' disease too :p Jan 29 22:22:17 FreeTim: that's expected behavior Jan 29 22:22:58 FreeTim now press the UPDATED APPS choice in the app catalog Jan 29 22:23:49 looking... I don't see that Jan 29 22:25:11 FreeTim press the shopping bag in the lower right. any with updates will show you that on the screen Jan 29 22:25:30 and there will be an "INSTALL UPDATES" button in the lower right corner Jan 29 22:27:04 I see the bag, I press that it lists my apps, but no options to update all, nor any individually. It's like, the Catalog doesn't think any need to be updated, but the Updates icon in the Launcher does think there are some needing updating. Jan 29 22:27:12 I might send the two of them outside, if they are gonna fight. Jan 29 22:28:01 FreeTim are these possibly apps which at one time where homebrew and have graduated to the app cat? Jan 29 22:28:17 if so, then yu can get this kind of conflict. Jan 29 22:28:44 I can only guess Yes, I am an early adopter and I an admitted apps hound Jan 29 22:28:50 there you go. Jan 29 22:28:57 Rick_work: seems a little redundant to have theme before everything. Imagine if we had appname apptype etc in appinfo.json Jan 29 22:29:29 destinal-work ok. I like self-documenting files. Jan 29 22:29:29 the file's already about themes Jan 29 22:29:40 will the conflict prevent all future updates? I can try rebooting Jan 29 22:29:43 destinal-work and doubtless I would have done precisely that. Jan 29 22:29:56 FreeTim it's not preventing ANY updates. Jan 29 22:30:06 there aren't any except the conflicted ones. Jan 29 22:30:08 Oh OK then! :) Jan 29 22:30:10 or it would have done them. Jan 29 22:30:26 destinal-work feel free to edit it. :-) Jan 29 22:30:37 any other comments? destinal-work Jan 29 22:30:41 Thanks zsoc and Rick for your answers, very reassuring Jan 29 22:31:24 or zsocwerkin who hasn't commented on it at all yet, muchless NOW -- :) there, both diseases at once, and just for the heck of it, I'll insert some,random comma,splicing as well... and gratuitous elipsise. Jan 29 22:31:32 If that's on the wiki and I just missed it, shame on me. If not, I'll create a wiki page for those with similar question Jan 29 22:31:51 FreeTim put it in the preware page, don't make a whole new one Jan 29 22:32:33 Rick_work: it's readable and I get the intent which is a good start -- I'll jump in and see if I can help improve when I get home Jan 29 22:32:43 kk Jan 29 22:32:58 I think we need a tight spec here before we start flinging code at it. Jan 29 22:33:07 really REALLY think that. Jan 29 22:33:19 and would be SUPER DUPER happy to get theme feeds the heck out of preware..... Jan 29 22:34:08 Rick_work: I always figured they still made sense as feed based ipk's that only touched their unique id's dir Jan 29 22:34:16 but NOT patches like now Jan 29 22:34:27 Rick_work: looks good Jan 29 22:34:36 I'm adding that part into the theme management app right now. Jan 29 22:34:56 Rick_work: we already have preware, I don't think we want yet another distribution mechanism Jan 29 22:35:35 now with InstaTheme© technology Jan 29 22:35:45 ok, but it just makes so much SENSE since we have to have a theme-management app anyway, to have it have a "get more themes" button and read the themes feeds. Jan 29 22:35:47 Rick_work: heh I already disable them, big nod Jan 29 22:35:50 the best theme is no theme >.> Jan 29 22:36:44 Rick_work: ok, I guess it could consume ipkgservice (and/or a native service when it comes along) Jan 29 22:36:58 but there's a lot of duplication Jan 29 22:37:18 I think I prefer to download them with preware and then LAUNCH is assocuated Jan 29 22:37:23 associated with the theme app Jan 29 22:37:56 Is it possible to implement a download count for patches? Jan 29 22:38:02 Get more themes could actually be a link back into preware Jan 29 22:38:22 into the themes category Jan 29 22:38:32 Rick_work: theme feeds would still be in preware Jan 29 22:39:08 Abyssul: i have something in mind to track ipkg usage Jan 29 22:39:58 The Theme Management App also displays a command button which says something like: Get more themes. which accesses the compatible themes feeds. Any theme-manager compatible feeds are displayed using code which we steal from Preware. Jan 29 22:39:58 The theme manager app can call the preware file service to get the theme feeds information. Jan 29 22:39:58 It does NOT download the feeds by default, only on request by pressing "get more themes." Jan 29 22:39:58 When a theme downloads, it extracts into /media/internal/.themes if the theme manager app attempts to open themedata.json and there isn't one, or it is corrupt, it informs the user that "this is not a theme manager compatible theme, sorry." and calls the service to delete the folder created by the IPK. Jan 29 22:40:22 PuffTheMagic I am suggesting something else..... Jan 29 22:41:20 since compatible themes REQUIRE a themeinfo.json unless we want to bundle that into preware _too_ but we HAVE to have a theme-manager app, so finding themes using the theme-manager app just makes so much sense. Jan 29 22:41:29 anyway play BIA or AC? Jan 29 22:41:49 s/anyway/anyone/ Jan 29 22:41:49 zsocwerkin meant: anyone play BIA or AC? Jan 29 22:41:52 Rick_work: why not just use the ipkg info? Jan 29 22:42:06 Rick_work: i think the theme app just changes them, installation of new themes should stay in preware with the added capability of using usb mode to copy them to a special dir Jan 29 22:42:31 Rick_work: thumbnails and descriptions are already specified there Jan 29 22:42:35 we could autocreate themedata.json s... Jan 29 22:42:40 as is version Jan 29 22:42:46 destinal-work because the theme manager allows you to have a bunch of themes ALREADY INSTALLED on the phone Jan 29 22:42:46 author, url ,etc Jan 29 22:42:56 and swap them quick -- work, home, clubbing etc. Jan 29 22:42:59 sure, you install them ALL Jan 29 22:43:10 you install the ones you WANT. Jan 29 22:43:16 when you install one app on the pre, it doesn't uninstall another app Jan 29 22:43:20 it's not a one app device Jan 29 22:43:23 I can see someone having 3 to 5 themes.... Jan 29 22:43:46 why have to go back to ipkg to get the silly thing when we already have an extracted folder? Jan 29 22:43:53 thus themeinfo.json Jan 29 22:43:59 ugly duplication Jan 29 22:44:06 we already have ipkg and feeds Jan 29 22:44:14 we need to distribute these things Jan 29 22:44:19 arrrgghhhhh..... Jan 29 22:44:49 you can use preware and install all 5 Jan 29 22:44:58 then you can launch one and it goes to theme ap Jan 29 22:44:59 app Jan 29 22:45:01 to install Jan 29 22:45:09 or you can browse around theme app and select noe Jan 29 22:45:11 one Jan 29 22:45:14 so, to get the themes listed for the theme manager, I go to ipkg, and ask it for a list of installed packages, and get the installed themes, and parse those themes descriptions out of the feed. Jan 29 22:45:25 not at all Jan 29 22:45:29 ok, Jan 29 22:45:34 you look at directory names Jan 29 22:45:36 destinal-work: did u ever use compiz Jan 29 22:45:48 the theme manager for that used svn Jan 29 22:45:51 then you pull the ipkg INFO for each directory name Jan 29 22:45:56 to keep its self up to date with all the new themes Jan 29 22:46:03 I'm in the church basement. No signal. I want to change themes, and I want to see the description and the thumbnails please tell me how it does it? Jan 29 22:46:07 we could put themes in a git repo Jan 29 22:46:11 and at the press of a button Jan 29 22:46:12 sync it Jan 29 22:46:14 Rick_work: oh Jan 29 22:46:15 to get new themes Jan 29 22:46:24 and then forget feeds Jan 29 22:46:24 Rick_work: you want to cache thumbnails? Jan 29 22:46:27 hmm Jan 29 22:47:04 destinal-work I want the thumbnails and the description to be in files in the IPK so I can see theme descriptions that I have loaded EVEN WHEN NO NETWORK. Jan 29 22:47:15 destinal-work: so we could use git and usb to get installed themes :D Jan 29 22:47:24 PuffTheMagic: I did compiz user support for like... a year. Jan 29 22:47:31 PuffTheMagic: uh, please no git Jan 29 22:47:38 destinal-work: why not? Jan 29 22:47:41 each theme is in a dir. each theme has themeinfo.json the themeinfo.json has a description field and pointers to 0 or more thumbs. Jan 29 22:47:42 destinal-work: or rsync Jan 29 22:47:44 or something Jan 29 22:47:53 let's just try to use the existing infra Jan 29 22:47:59 we have ipkg and feeds Jan 29 22:48:03 they work Jan 29 22:48:16 does this make sense now destinal-work Jan 29 22:48:17 ? Jan 29 22:48:25 destinal-work: i can see it both ways Jan 29 22:48:32 i always have themes blocked in preware Jan 29 22:48:43 so i woudld just as much rather they eb gone Jan 29 22:48:49 but keeping them is fine Jan 29 22:49:02 KK going home now... Jan 29 22:49:16 you guys beat on each other for a while and someone update the wiki. Jan 29 22:49:23 Rick_work: I think we can use themes in feeds of ipks, Jan 29 22:49:24 but a lot of theme managers on desktops and update them selves with "apporoved" themes Jan 29 22:49:38 and then also support 3rd party ones Jan 29 22:49:42 back sorry. Rick_work re: css pointing to dialpad/1.png, you would make theme1/framework/global.css that changed that to point to /var/.themes/theme1/ Jan 29 22:49:50 PuffTheMagic: you can install via WOSQI or Preware or ipkg-install Jan 29 22:49:54 it already all exists Jan 29 22:49:59 egaudet_work I'm going away for a bit. Jan 29 22:50:02 destinal-work: true Jan 29 22:50:08 Have fun. I think I have a decent start there. Jan 29 22:50:27 egaudet_work I'm really sorry I completely undid what you had. But I needed a starting point. Jan 29 22:50:38 and btw, I didn't deal with icons in this at all. :( Jan 29 22:50:45 but that's pretty easy. Jan 29 22:50:46 egaudet_work: you should edit the wiki Jan 29 22:51:00 you and puff have the best idea already of what you're thinking of Jan 29 22:51:06 however I will look into being able to redirect ALL image loading from to THEME_DIR/ because that would make it easier for designers Jan 29 22:51:06 tmzt, ping Jan 29 22:51:22 just let's not use a new shiny technology for distribution if we can do the same without it Jan 29 22:51:26 destinal-work also, themeinfo.json test allows us to throw away non-compliant themes. :) Jan 29 22:51:41 destinal-work: what if we used ipkgs but used a different offline root Jan 29 22:51:50 YES!!! Jan 29 22:52:09 PuffTheMagic /media/internal/.themes Jan 29 22:52:17 isn't that what we're talking about? Jan 29 22:52:19 also for applications, theya ll load things from /stylesheets/ and ALL stylesheets including these ones will also load from THEME_DIR//stylesheets etc... Jan 29 22:52:26 so you can overwrite app specific css classes too Jan 29 22:52:27 Okay, I'm just wary of duplication of effort between preware and this app. Jan 29 22:52:31 Rick_work: actually that could work Jan 29 22:52:40 egaudet_work I thought that's what I wrote. Jan 29 22:52:42 Rick_work: then there is only 1 dir Jan 29 22:52:47 not just global.css but this patch will load a theme css on top of ANY css loaded at any point Jan 29 22:52:52 regardless whether its usb or preware Jan 29 22:53:03 all the css is loaded by the same framework loadStylesheet function Jan 29 22:53:13 egaudet_work: but then ipkg db might get out of sync Jan 29 22:53:14 dcordes: hey, yep, been here since June Jan 29 22:53:39 egaudet_work ok.... fix what I wrote... thanks. I'll be back later. -- probably in about 3 or 4 hours. Jan 29 22:54:08 egaudet_work: this is pretty sweet how this is all coming to gether Jan 29 22:54:35 tmzt, ever ran it on your raphael? Jan 29 22:54:49 nope, until Pixxi it couldn't anyway Jan 29 22:55:29 how's that? Jan 29 22:55:46 PuffTheMagic: maybe my mind is just starting to think a lot like yours now so no arguing, just doing :P Jan 29 22:55:55 Pre has a cortex cpu Jan 29 22:56:05 plus it was a really good idea by you Jan 29 22:56:29 OK there's just too much back log to continue reading anymore Jan 29 22:56:32 tmzt, it's OE based. doesn't that mean it's supposed to work on multiple archs? Jan 29 22:56:39 egaudet_work: you know, yesterday..... Jan 29 22:57:02 when i was saying "they were doing it wrong" regarding the current themes Jan 29 22:57:10 and someone called me on how to do it right Jan 29 22:57:17 i hadndt thought about it previously Jan 29 22:57:24 i just spit that out on the spot Jan 29 22:57:26 dcordes: it's optimized for cortex, it won't run onj armv7novfp Jan 29 22:57:39 even Pixi version since it's for arm1176 Jan 29 22:58:15 * Mousey sings Jan 29 22:58:18 this really is coming out to be a reallly good thing Jan 29 22:58:25 o/~ teenage mutant zombie turtles o/~ Jan 29 22:58:37 PuffTheMagic: btw it won't be ipkg installable directly, it will require ipkg postinst Jan 29 22:58:50 egaudet_work: why Jan 29 22:58:59 /media/internal/.themes/ will contain all theme dirs (theme1, theme2, theme3) etc... Jan 29 22:59:15 PuffTheMagic: because crpytofs is not accessible via USB mode Jan 29 22:59:31 * Mousey takes notes Jan 29 22:59:35 and a lot of people might want to install a theme by drag and drop USB mode, even though I think ipk install is easier, I know Windows users Jan 29 22:59:45 tmzt, so it's time to spam oe.org bugtracker "palm package xyz do_configure/build fails" Jan 29 22:59:47 egaudet_work: ok so Jan 29 22:59:50 how about this Jan 29 23:00:10 and then the service and patch stuff is always looking in /var/active_theme for stuff which is linked to whatever theme you set active at the time Jan 29 23:00:13 /media/internal/themes and /media/cryptofs/themes Jan 29 23:00:24 PuffTheMagic: I wanted to do that but no sym link on vfat Jan 29 23:00:34 and I dont want double data for themes Jan 29 23:00:45 egaudet_work: the symlink is on ext though Jan 29 23:00:55 egaudet_work: or are u saying a symlink cant even point to something on vfat Jan 29 23:00:58 it can Jan 29 23:01:04 so then what is the issue? Jan 29 23:01:08 but I mean neither /media/internal or /media/cryptofs is ext Jan 29 23:01:18 right Jan 29 23:01:20 unless we could bind mount? Jan 29 23:01:30 yeah that would work too Jan 29 23:01:40 /media/cryptofs/apps/themes onto /media/internal/.themes Jan 29 23:01:47 eehh Jan 29 23:01:50 no Jan 29 23:01:53 then it would be ipk installable no postinst and USB mode dragable Jan 29 23:02:00 no no Jan 29 23:03:30 /var/.theme is the path the framework looks in, the service would bind mount something from /media/cryptofs/themes/ or /media/internal/themes/ Jan 29 23:03:50 and the gui would show the available themes from both dirs Jan 29 23:04:31 that leaves open too much for collisions Jan 29 23:04:38 how so? Jan 29 23:04:40 where is the webos metadata? can't find it in the wiki Jan 29 23:04:45 plus why mount /var/.theme instead of sym link? Jan 29 23:04:57 egaudet_work: u were the one that mentioned bind mounting Jan 29 23:05:16 PuffTheMagic: I was only talking about that for getting the same data visible via ipk extraction as well as USB mode Jan 29 23:05:22 since you can't see offline root from USB mode Jan 29 23:05:29 egaudet_work: ohhhh Jan 29 23:05:30 hmm Jan 29 23:05:45 that would probably break usb mode Jan 29 23:05:59 but it dont need to be on all the time Jan 29 23:06:14 I -think- though sym linking the active theme to /var/.theme is better though than mounting Jan 29 23:06:33 egaudet_work: yeah i didnt realize what u were using mount bind for Jan 29 23:07:21 so umm Jan 29 23:07:25 wait a sec Jan 29 23:07:55 why do we have to bother with cryptofs at all? Jan 29 23:08:14 i cant all be in /media/internal/themes Jan 29 23:08:17 cant it? Jan 29 23:11:42 yes Jan 29 23:11:47 that was my plan Jan 29 23:11:53 k Jan 29 23:11:59 the ONLY downside is ipks have to have a postinst to install them Jan 29 23:12:07 I thought you were arguing that you didn't want that Jan 29 23:12:19 idk what im saying right now Jan 29 23:12:24 im out of it Jan 29 23:12:42 hehe, well I'm going to commute home now, i'll be back in an hour or so Jan 29 23:12:50 my brain is on overload with PhD and webOS work Jan 29 23:13:34 well take it easy :) bbl Jan 29 23:13:49 later Jan 29 23:15:22 * zsocwerkin points to PuffTheMagic, "PREMED!" Jan 29 23:15:50 zsocwerkin: haha not premed Jan 29 23:15:55 i couldnt be a doctor Jan 29 23:16:00 i dont like memorizing Jan 29 23:16:04 OH i read that as themed with a pr Jan 29 23:16:06 PREEEEEMED Jan 29 23:16:11 preeemd Jan 29 23:16:11 i like knowing where to find info Jan 29 23:16:14 lulz Jan 29 23:16:17 haha ok out Jan 29 23:17:10 lol Jan 29 23:17:30 Premed is great Jan 29 23:21:28 Prēme API Jan 29 23:22:05 PrēSkin Jan 29 23:22:15 which is unrelated to ForeSkin Jan 29 23:25:56 ha Jan 29 23:27:05 definitely high Jan 29 23:29:14 zsocwerkin: shhhhhhhhhhhh Jan 29 23:33:07 PuffTheMagic: just as long as you aren't in those captain tight pants Jan 29 23:33:26 zsocwerkin: wow Jan 29 23:33:58 zsocwerkin: i was tyring to squeeze my fat ass back into some pants i havent worn in a while :D Jan 29 23:34:08 PuffTheMagic: then I approve Jan 29 23:34:31 didnt gain any weight durring undergrad and then gained a double freshman 15 in grad school Jan 29 23:34:36 PuffTheMagic: how are we handling relative icon paths? is it not _replacing_ the icon? Jan 29 23:34:55 because I thought icons locations were binary driven Jan 29 23:34:55 it could Jan 29 23:35:03 idk Jan 29 23:35:12 like i said i didnt think of every aspect Jan 29 23:35:14 k, so I'm late to the conversation Jan 29 23:35:18 and im not the framework person Jan 29 23:35:25 JayCanuck: hey Jan 29 23:35:38 JayCanuck: not that late Jan 29 23:35:44 still in the design phase right now Jan 29 23:35:57 JayCanuck: wait for egaudet to get home.. he thinls he has it figured out :p Jan 29 23:36:32 JayCanuck: any thoughts, comments, questions? Jan 29 23:37:06 lots, lol Jan 29 23:37:24 last I heard Egaudet was developing some auto update theme format Jan 29 23:37:42 JayCanuck: we are coming up with a new theme api Jan 29 23:37:47 and I was planning on switching both WOSQI and WebOS Theme Builder to it Jan 29 23:38:16 well currently is seems like we are going to keep using ipks Jan 29 23:38:23 but just use a new offline root path Jan 29 23:38:26 k, well, that works Jan 29 23:38:37 and the path its gonna be on /media/internal/themes Jan 29 23:38:38 basically Jan 29 23:38:54 so ipkg'd themes will need a postinst or something Jan 29 23:38:57 not a big deal Jan 29 23:38:59 I'm adding an Export As Ipk option to WebOS Theme Builder, to transition all zip themes @ precentral Jan 29 23:39:10 but themes wont be touching any palm files from now on Jan 29 23:40:09 thats the goal at least Jan 29 23:40:14 that is...interesting Jan 29 23:40:22 how will SysMgr files get altered Jan 29 23:40:31 all those are binary controlled Jan 29 23:40:42 and are very visible and themed by most themes Jan 29 23:40:50 can i just get like.. *part* of a Precentral theme package? just the wallpaper and screen lock icon really.. Jan 29 23:41:26 rwong, download the zip file from precentral Jan 29 23:41:32 you can grab the images Jan 29 23:41:47 rwong: theme maintainers would have to release pieced options for 'supported' instalation Jan 29 23:41:55 JayCanuck: all that is gonna get overriden with css Jan 29 23:42:03 but how Jan 29 23:42:07 they aren't in any css Jan 29 23:42:10 i see, thanks Jan 29 23:42:24 LunaSysMgr uses them directly, last I checked Jan 29 23:42:53 so I assume the new theme format disallows patches? Jan 29 23:42:54 JayCanuck: i dont know if "all" details have been worked out Jan 29 23:43:15 JayCanuck: but the "goal" is to not have to have themes use patches Jan 29 23:43:30 k, I can accept that Jan 29 23:43:32 but what about audio file replacements? Jan 29 23:43:43 custom theme notification settings, etc. Jan 29 23:43:46 idk if that has been discused yet Jan 29 23:44:04 that could maybe be sent via luna-send service call commands Jan 29 23:44:10 JayCanuck: i do encourage you to maintain more of a presense around here as we are always talking about these things Jan 29 23:44:29 and would like your input/participation Jan 29 23:44:34 yea, I really need to change IRC clients, lol Jan 29 23:44:58 "thank you for your participation in our programs" Jan 29 23:45:09 lol Jan 29 23:46:54 JayCanuck: so there is a wiki page started where we are sorta document thoughts we have so far and things we think are good ideas Jan 29 23:47:06 so that would give you an idea of what we think we have an idea how to implement Jan 29 23:47:09 yea, saw http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Theme_Management_API :) Jan 29 23:47:20 JayCanuck: rick knows more about the css than i do Jan 29 23:47:23 so, the css overrides Jan 29 23:48:03 as far as I know, i'd be impossible to override a "!important" css setting Jan 29 23:49:06 if rick knows of a solution, sounds like a nice idea though Jan 29 23:49:28 JayCanuck: the path in the main framework files look in a new directory for css after parsing the real files then if anything is redefined in the new css files should take over i would think Jan 29 23:49:43 i think thats the idea Jan 29 23:49:45 we will see Jan 29 23:50:11 i just threw out an idea last night about patchless theme api and some ideas and egaudet has been running with it Jan 29 23:50:24 and so is destinal-work and rick-home Jan 29 23:50:32 yea, there's definitely more than a few tricky parts Jan 29 23:50:34 neither of which are around atm Jan 29 23:50:49 JayCanuck: yeah i didnt think this was gonna be implemened in 24hrs Jan 29 23:50:50 like apps that just use Jan 29 23:50:57 JayCanuck: so u can relax Jan 29 23:50:59 lol Jan 29 23:51:14 well, as of wosqi, zip theming is disabled Jan 29 23:51:47 while theoretically, zip theming I liked a lot, I had to many novacom connection issues and it took too long, lol Jan 29 23:51:55 bbiab Jan 29 23:51:55 JayCanuck: even if the new api isnt as robust in therms of what can be done now, it will be done cleaner and the api and grow as we learn how to do more things cleanly Jan 29 23:52:11 whens the new firmware coming out have they said? Jan 29 23:52:18 firmware? Jan 29 23:52:36 I'm mainly concerned at the transition between the x-hundred themes currently available Jan 29 23:52:50 cause there are many gems out there I'd hate to loose Jan 29 23:53:00 Left 4 Dead theme kicks ass! Jan 29 23:53:21 whatever its called sorry used to iphone terms the one that comes after 1.3.5.2 Jan 29 23:53:24 JayCanuck: it might not be a perfect transition... and i dont think we are forcing anyone to use this new api Jan 29 23:53:40 and both could probably exist with out breaking each other too much Jan 29 23:53:58 puffthemagic, this I should do a temporary in-between format? Jan 29 23:54:03 *think Jan 29 23:54:24 like, a prethemer-style ipk format transition from zip Jan 29 23:54:37 JayCanuck: naaa, i wouldnt really do anything till its matured a little bit Jan 29 23:54:54 to fill the time gap before the new api is ready Jan 29 23:54:54 i think only themes created from scratch for the api should be used with the new api for now Jan 29 23:55:14 k, so just go with a prethemer-style ipk solution right now? Jan 29 23:55:21 JayCanuck: thing is i anticipate a lot of experimentation for a little bit Jan 29 23:55:30 and the spec is gonna be in flux for a little while Jan 29 23:55:39 so not much point in doing anything just yet Jan 29 23:55:58 JayCanuck: yeah stick with what you currently have i guess Jan 29 23:56:27 what I currently have is the zip/xml format, which installs included patches as separate optional entities Jan 29 23:56:52 JayCanuck: i dont know much of the current theme details, i dont use themes Jan 29 23:56:56 yet Jan 29 23:58:15 zsoc|away: u happy u aint working on precorder any more? Jan 29 23:58:28 I think what I'll do in the meantime until theme spec is finished would be to just make an ipk similar to prethemer's, except have patch install as a separate entity Jan 29 23:58:54 so at the very least I can transition the precentral format to ipk Jan 29 23:59:07 Zsoc: it was great though. I liked it Jan 30 00:01:14 JayCanuck: well im serious that we want to see you around here more to talk about projects that affect the webos world Jan 30 00:02:04 well, I'm all up for that Jan 30 00:03:59 JayCanuck: a really nice irc client is called Quassel, its actually split up as a client and server, so you can install the server part on a machine you always have up and then use a client to connect to the server, doing this keeps you logged into the channels all the time and you can come and go with the client and you never miss anything the backbuffers are all there Jan 30 00:04:04 the gui is for mac windows and linux Jan 30 00:04:19 u can have multiples clients running on multipel computers and you see the same thing Jan 30 00:04:21 they dont conflicts Jan 30 00:04:38 and the server supports mutiple "users" Jan 30 00:04:38 nice Jan 30 00:04:44 yeah its pretty sweet Jan 30 00:05:01 thats how this nick always logged on Jan 30 00:05:09 even though i turn off my laptop all the time Jan 30 00:05:50 im gonna be setting up a new server on campus soon so I can make you an account on it once its up if you dont want to set up your own server Jan 30 00:05:54 then you just need the client part Jan 30 00:06:24 im partial to Quassel but im sure others have their favs too Jan 30 00:06:36 does sound pretty sweet Jan 30 00:06:37 stick with current themeing (minus patching) for now, this stuff is still in the prove-it phase Jan 30 00:06:54 and JayCanuck do not buckle to puff's will re: quassel Jan 30 00:06:54 :P Jan 30 00:06:59 where's oil Jan 30 00:07:18 lol, my current is Chatzilla, pretty much anything's better ;) Jan 30 00:07:27 but yea quassel 100X > chatzilla Jan 30 00:07:29 egaudet: u can have an account when the server is up too ;D Jan 30 00:07:56 I like XChat but haven't tried anything else really since is just here with ubuntu Jan 30 00:08:13 hey, anybody know of video editing software and any desktop screen capture software? Jan 30 00:08:24 on linux i do Jan 30 00:08:24 alright so JayCanuck can you give me some examples of binary driven things? Jan 30 00:08:33 I wanna make a tour video for when Internalz 1.0 is ready Jan 30 00:08:35 k Jan 30 00:08:41 desktop screen capture software?? Jan 30 00:08:47 ctrl+print screen :P Jan 30 00:08:50 like fraps Jan 30 00:08:52 video Jan 30 00:08:58 err ctrl+alt+... oh video Jan 30 00:09:07 JayCanuck: you and me should talk about getting the service for internalz converted to C Jan 30 00:09:13 lol Jan 30 00:09:29 I'm comfortable with java for now ;) Jan 30 00:09:32 OK so !important is a CSS lock type thing? Jan 30 00:09:37 yea Jan 30 00:09:38 PuffTheMagic: yes very happy :> although i still like your handy gstreamer work. i think it'll be useful in the future also Jan 30 00:09:40 eww java ick :P Jan 30 00:09:47 lol Jan 30 00:09:50 zsoc: yeah Jan 30 00:10:07 JayCanuck: we need less java on the pre Jan 30 00:10:17 i like java Jan 30 00:10:20 lol Jan 30 00:10:24 but its not good for embedded Jan 30 00:10:25 java is ok, if it's done properly Jan 30 00:10:32 Jazelle? Jan 30 00:10:52 there is no properly doing java, it's improper by default :P Jan 30 00:11:02 egaudet: shutit Jan 30 00:11:05 let's get some language wars ! Jan 30 00:11:06 :P Jan 30 00:11:06 lol Jan 30 00:11:17 I'll start. perl is my friend Jan 30 00:11:22 Fun fact: the included java on the Pre is Apache Harmony with Oasis JVM Jan 30 00:11:22 egaudet: my next service will be in lisp ;D Jan 30 00:11:56 Jay: knew that. it's a pretty old build of harmony the last time I checked. Jan 30 00:11:57 interestingly enough, one of the engineers that made Oasis JVM is now @ palm, lol Jan 30 00:12:09 i need to write a lisp dbus package Jan 30 00:12:10 you have a lisp! Jan 30 00:12:12 first Jan 30 00:12:15 lol Jan 30 00:12:23 perl smells funny Jan 30 00:12:29 erlang for webos Jan 30 00:12:34 golang Jan 30 00:12:43 anything outside of C and bash is the devil Jan 30 00:12:50 lol Jan 30 00:12:51 egaudet: golang is sweet Jan 30 00:13:02 lisp is getting to be cool Jan 30 00:13:21 We need the ability to upmod comments on the fly, for reading backlogs Jan 30 00:13:23 if I don't believe in the devil, yet java exists, does that mean it's not evil? lol Jan 30 00:13:30 sometimes it takes me longer to read backlogs in realtime, and i can't catch up Jan 30 00:13:49 zsoc: i dont read backlogs Jan 30 00:13:51 its too hard Jan 30 00:13:52 take up speed reading? Jan 30 00:14:00 jauderho: i read very fast :( Jan 30 00:14:01 zsoc: i'd rather just ask whats new Jan 30 00:14:02 :D Jan 30 00:14:11 PuffTheMagic: you're an arrogant asshat Jan 30 00:14:14 xD Jan 30 00:14:15 anyway, egaudet, the sysmgr folder images are used directly by LunaSysMgr directly, I believe Jan 30 00:14:15 zsoc: i look for all the lines that are highlighted Jan 30 00:14:21 We need services in FORTRAN Jan 30 00:14:27 There is nothing in the world like scotch. Jan 30 00:14:33 * zsoc writes a service in machine code Jan 30 00:14:33 Ada is a better language Jan 30 00:14:39 haha Jan 30 00:14:41 cobol Jan 30 00:14:53 JayCanuck, what's in the sysmgr folders? Jan 30 00:14:53 JayCanuck: extracted the zip and put the images on my Pre.. that was too easy lol Jan 30 00:14:53 So what exploits are there out there for the current kernel version? I'm going to get one working on the Pre... Jan 30 00:14:57 i am actually a fan of ada :( Jan 30 00:15:01 zsoc: no, must resist urge to write service in pure ASM :P Jan 30 00:15:05 this channel is off topic 80% of the time Jan 30 00:15:07 its great Jan 30 00:15:13 destinal-work: do it :> Jan 30 00:15:21 egaudet all the good images! lol quicklaunch wave, quicklaunch bar, etc. Jan 30 00:15:23 PuffTheMagic: it's amazing we get things done Jan 30 00:15:42 so just the quicklaunch bar and wave Jan 30 00:15:45 JayCanuck: i have a way for that Jan 30 00:15:46 JayCanuck: so we'll use a bspatch ... Jan 30 00:15:46 :p Jan 30 00:15:58 zsoc, bah that's worse than overwriting the image Jan 30 00:16:01 all the binary files can be "overwrittent" with aufs!!!!! Jan 30 00:16:02 * zsoc gets out his hex brain Jan 30 00:16:03 lol Jan 30 00:16:22 aufs aufs aufs aufs aufs aufs aufs Jan 30 00:16:23 /usr/palm/sysmgr/images Jan 30 00:16:24 egaudet: I agree with PuffTheMagic, if we are going to get into binary territory in the future, we need to plan on using aufs... Jan 30 00:16:38 oh yeah I was going to start looking for something like aufs PuffTheMagic Jan 30 00:16:51 that is like a union thing right? Jan 30 00:16:56 egaudet: i will work out getting the module built Jan 30 00:16:57 what is aufs? Jan 30 00:16:57 so we can overwrite files without overwriting them Jan 30 00:16:57 egaudet: yes Jan 30 00:17:05 egaudet: yeah Jan 30 00:17:06 JayCanuck: a fancy linux thing Jan 30 00:17:09 JayCanuck: layerd fs Jan 30 00:17:10 JayCanuck: don't worry about it ;) Jan 30 00:17:12 * zsoc ducks Jan 30 00:17:15 yeah so that's the perfect way to overwrite things we are forced to Jan 30 00:17:26 zsoc! don't stifle my learning! Jan 30 00:17:28 lol Jan 30 00:17:42 JayCanuck: its like this... Jan 30 00:17:45 JayCanuck: you've actually come a long way in a short time... i think soon we'll have you dual booting... Jan 30 00:18:09 I do have a dual boot of ubuntu Jan 30 00:18:20 JayCanuck: with aufs... you mount this "virtual fs" over a certain path and it acts as an overlay Jan 30 00:18:23 but all that is virtually automated, lol Jan 30 00:18:25 in memory though Jan 30 00:18:29 ah, nice Jan 30 00:18:30 not on a real disk Jan 30 00:18:37 and then u can copy files on to it Jan 30 00:18:53 well, thank you Puff for explaining that *glaresat zsoc* Jan 30 00:19:18 xD Jan 30 00:19:22 JayCanuck: so so the userland it looks like the files are in a ceratin path Jan 30 00:19:34 but they are really in memory in this fake fs overlay like thing Jan 30 00:20:04 PuffTheMagic: well the files are overlaid but they really exist *somewhere* Jan 30 00:20:04 I wish there was a separate brightness setting for keyboard and display. the brightness unlinked solution is not ideal. Jan 30 00:20:10 PuffTheMagic, the original files in the path still are there unless the "other" path has them right? Jan 30 00:20:13 destinal-work: yeah in memory Jan 30 00:20:21 PuffTheMagic: not necessarily Jan 30 00:20:24 well yeah on a disk too Jan 30 00:20:28 jauderho: brightness unlinked works really well imo Jan 30 00:20:33 one of the best things to come out of.. not here :) Jan 30 00:20:38 lol Jan 30 00:20:41 lol Jan 30 00:20:45 that doesn't say Jason on it :p Jan 30 00:20:49 zsoc, I started a dual brightness slider Jan 30 00:20:51 patch Jan 30 00:20:55 JayCanuck: ftw Jan 30 00:20:57 feel free to finish it :p Jan 30 00:21:02 destinal-work: teaching while intoxicated Jan 30 00:21:04 a lot of systems use ram fs's to union because they don't have writeable disk at all but want to be a real linux environment Jan 30 00:21:07 TWI! Jan 30 00:21:21 zsoc: having to run an app to set brightnes is just wrong =) Jan 30 00:21:23 initramfs ftw Jan 30 00:21:30 jauderho: yes but at least we have an option :) Jan 30 00:22:01 true. but it really should be a patch... Jan 30 00:22:12 zsoc: if you have a really big ROM disk but you want to dynamically overwrite things by putting a new copy in your RAM fs, then union / (aufs) is the way to go Jan 30 00:22:18 destinal-work: ask me to solve a problem and it involves inotify and/or aufs :D Jan 30 00:22:23 and a service Jan 30 00:22:35 PuffTheMagic: and maybe git or rsync :) Jan 30 00:22:39 so...git...I cloned a repo that WAS read-only... Jan 30 00:22:43 yeah gotta add them in there Jan 30 00:23:01 now I have push access, but it's complaining about my host line (I guess) Jan 30 00:23:03 destinal-work i still think that rsynced themes would be really cool too Jan 30 00:23:11 and suggests another...just not sure how to change git Jan 30 00:23:15 to use that instead? Jan 30 00:23:34 sugardave: generally there are readonly vs commit friendly urls Jan 30 00:23:39 PuffTheMagic: the thing is, most of your ideas are actually cool, just way overcomplicated :) Jan 30 00:24:11 like, I use KISS because I know how much random users will have all kinds of layers of things break and then we have total collapse Jan 30 00:24:16 zsoc: right, I was not part of the 'push' access on this particular repo when I cloned it Jan 30 00:24:21 so I used the read-only url Jan 30 00:24:29 then I worked on it, and got added to push access Jan 30 00:24:38 destinal-work: i dont see over complicated Jan 30 00:24:43 so I think somewhere it's pulling this info of the original url Jan 30 00:24:45 oh Jan 30 00:24:46 sugardave: just edit your .git/config Jan 30 00:24:47 PuffTheMagic: ok, say, NOVEL :) Jan 30 00:24:54 zsoc: okay, thanks Jan 30 00:24:59 I'm new to git Jan 30 00:25:05 sok, me tooo :D Jan 30 00:25:08 like, awesome but who has ever used the tech in that way before Jan 30 00:25:14 sugardave: editing anything exciting? Jan 30 00:25:34 destinal-work: not even... first thing i said about the git/svn thing was said how compiz/beryl used it for their themes Jan 30 00:25:43 zsoc: oh yeah...the best Web 3.0 mashup of the century Jan 30 00:25:45 its show to work Jan 30 00:25:46 see #twipper Jan 30 00:25:47 sure, but it fails the KISS test Jan 30 00:26:03 destinal-work: but what about the have fun test Jan 30 00:26:36 PuffTheMagic: I hear you, and I think for you the experimental / push the envelope thing is why you do it Jan 30 00:26:46 yeah Jan 30 00:26:49 for me the same thing but I want stuff like usb host mode, bluetooth, emulated emulator hardware Jan 30 00:27:03 which I'm playing with but I keep getting distracted :P Jan 30 00:27:21 destinal-work: naa i hear ya, i want that stuff too, its just more over my head Jan 30 00:27:31 cause i dont do hw really Jan 30 00:27:32 it's over my head too which is why it's too slow Jan 30 00:27:44 of an effort I mean Jan 30 00:27:55 right Jan 30 00:28:38 I'm going to go get expedite to work with gl_sdl ... Jan 30 00:28:53 zsoc: do u have xcomp's code? Jan 30 00:29:21 PuffTheMagic: he pushed to svn Jan 30 00:29:25 ohh Jan 30 00:29:26 :D Jan 30 00:29:36 me goes to update terminus Jan 30 00:29:41 there's some funky copyrighted headers, but they don't do much, we'll figure it out Jan 30 00:29:46 er _he'll_ figure it out Jan 30 00:30:13 awesome part is, his work is actually quite useful for e dev in general Jan 30 00:30:15 so we need an ebuild for the khronos headers right? Jan 30 00:30:26 so its gles? Jan 30 00:30:28 afaik it's only two headers.. with a lot of voids :P Jan 30 00:30:38 PuffTheMagic: gl_common is already gles2.0 compatible, because raster is a forward thinker Jan 30 00:30:39 lol Jan 30 00:31:06 PuffTheMagic, why do you need khronos headers? Jan 30 00:31:28 egaudet: they are includes somewhere... in uh... sdl_gles.h or similar Jan 30 00:31:28 cause if rebuild evas with gl enabled its gonna need those headers Jan 30 00:31:35 use SDL_opengles.h Jan 30 00:31:40 that has what you need for webos Jan 30 00:31:57 there was a reason why we needed another one Jan 30 00:32:04 with xcomp not present, i will discover it myself Jan 30 00:32:27 cause of the libegl or something Jan 30 00:32:41 the only reason to -need- another one is if you don't want to modify the existing code's #include stuff Jan 30 00:32:48 zspgl_common isnt just compatible - its designned to be gl_es2 based - as gl_es-2 is a subset of opengl - and it actually supports modern features like shaders, so i wrote it for that subset. as such it actually does work on gl and gl-es2 - not just in gl-es under emulation. on real devices. Jan 30 00:32:52 egl is different Jan 30 00:33:08 SDL stuff uses egl, we want to use SDL I thought Jan 30 00:33:33 egaudet: idk how xcomp did it Jan 30 00:34:29 khrplatform, and something else Jan 30 00:39:11 pastebin those headers if/when u get them Jan 30 00:39:21 PuffTheMagic: i'm not redistributing them :P Jan 30 00:39:30 arent they gpl? Jan 30 00:39:34 no Jan 30 00:39:52 they are available on the khronos site, and one specifically says it is platform specific and was no doubt edited for webos Jan 30 00:41:41 zsoc: is there a new ./configure option for this new support? Jan 30 00:41:56 PuffTheMagic: uh... he edited the makefile in the widk Jan 30 00:42:05 but yeah, there are 3 configure options i believe Jan 30 00:42:15 oh i can look in gitweb then Jan 30 00:42:35 PuffTheMagic: his changes are on e svn, config options are on the webosinternals git Jan 30 00:42:45 right Jan 30 00:45:04 haha, i think my computer just rolled save vs disconnect Jan 30 00:48:00 zsoc: well its building... Jan 30 00:48:05 i wonder if/when it will fail Jan 30 00:48:12 with those new flags Jan 30 00:48:22 PuffTheMagic: he may have changed something since he had those header issues Jan 30 00:48:37 well will see Jan 30 00:48:54 i will see what .so's i have when its done Jan 30 00:49:05 ohh its installing Jan 30 00:49:07 so it built Jan 30 00:49:09 nice Jan 30 00:49:09 lets ee Jan 30 00:49:10 see Jan 30 00:49:14 run expedite :> Jan 30 00:49:33 hmm Jan 30 00:49:40 i dont think it built with them Jan 30 00:49:47 prolly not Jan 30 00:49:52 mad separate Jan 30 00:49:59 ? Jan 30 00:50:10 expedite is a separate package... Jan 30 00:50:16 im talking about evas Jan 30 00:50:22 o Jan 30 00:50:25 hmm... Jan 30 00:50:30 maybe its turned off Jan 30 00:50:31 i can already bui;ld expedite Jan 30 00:50:47 i assume you're not using the widk? Jan 30 00:50:53 zsoc: correct Jan 30 00:51:14 raster: do you know if expedite has been updated with a "webOS" layout? Jan 30 00:51:23 raster: both xcomp and i have patches for it Jan 30 00:51:37 i just havent check if anything got included Jan 30 00:51:59 can somebody help me with the question I posed earlier? I'm used to 'standard' openembedded metadata and I'm wondering where I can find the webos equivalent to org.openembedded.dev tree Jan 30 00:52:21 dcordes: afaik, palm has not released oe recipes? Jan 30 00:52:44 yea like oe recipes! Jan 30 00:52:59 that's what I'm looking for. called metadata in OE lingo Jan 30 00:53:48 they are supa sekret Jan 30 00:53:48 dcordes: i talked to them about that once Jan 30 00:53:53 is there something wrong with the widk? Jan 30 00:54:00 dcordes: they have a really old version of OE Jan 30 00:54:07 and its higly modified Jan 30 00:54:16 and probably not in version control Jan 30 00:54:22 I bet they are still using monotone for the whole versioning stuff :D Jan 30 00:54:26 so even if they wanted they probably cant share it Jan 30 00:54:29 dcordes: bingo Jan 30 00:54:42 awww that sucks Jan 30 00:55:09 when I first saw webos+openembedded I had wet dreams about bitbaking nice images for my HTC devies Jan 30 00:59:14 palmslots has nice graphics Jan 30 00:59:25 Pixi is very similar to us Jan 30 00:59:29 also slacker just came out? Jan 30 00:59:29 but has vfp Jan 30 01:00:46 zsoc: yeah its just failing at the header checks Jan 30 01:01:41 lol hey guys did you know preware does not completely uninstall things? that info courtesy of the Quick Contacts maintainer.... Jan 30 01:01:47 PuffTheMagic: yeah, if you look up the headers they are full of silly Jan 30 01:02:05 PuffTheMagic: for personal use you could probably use them for testing Jan 30 01:03:09 all we need to do is wget them Jan 30 01:03:12 bingo Jan 30 01:03:17 live build script Jan 30 01:03:20 oh, yeah Jan 30 01:05:30 my wife's pixi won't install apps from the app store. It's a vanilla sprint phone, never put anything homebrew on it. I click download and it just ... doesn't... do I doctor it? Jan 30 01:05:54 jettero: put homebrew on it, that'll fix your problem Jan 30 01:05:59 haha Jan 30 01:06:09 are you serious? Jan 30 01:06:35 that actualy kindof makes sense a little Jan 30 01:06:35 uh, partially Jan 30 01:06:38 what is the error you're getting Jan 30 01:06:42 I'm not Jan 30 01:06:57 you click the download bar ... it blinks (instead of starting) and just goes back to the unpressed graphics Jan 30 01:07:07 excellent. Jan 30 01:07:10 er... I click. Yu can't see it at all Jan 30 01:07:13 no idea then Jan 30 01:07:19 #webos maybe? Jan 30 01:07:31 oh, right, I alwasy forget there's another channel Jan 30 01:07:38 haha, I didn't know either. Jan 30 01:07:39 * rwong joins Jan 30 01:09:34 this is very strange.. if i delete a Gmail email from my phone.. i see it labeled as "Inbox" and "Trash" when i look into the Trash folder on the Gmail site Jan 30 01:10:08 i have same thing Jan 30 01:10:39 that's a quirk of gmail's labels that act half-way like folders Jan 30 01:10:46 it's not imap, but it's imap-like Jan 30 01:12:03 huh, app catalog says slacker is not a "valid webos application"? Jan 30 01:12:33 yeah, some of my official apps show that as well. i mentioned it a few nights ago Jan 30 01:12:44 some sort of side effect of .. something i forgot :) Jan 30 01:13:00 hmm. I found an actual bug in the original pokemon blue cart. i even loaded up my legit copy to confirm it. that's funny. Jan 30 01:13:13 there's /lots/ of bugs in the original pokemon Jan 30 01:13:16 or all of them, for that matter Jan 30 01:13:20 an undocumented one at that (i believe) Jan 30 01:13:25 what is it? Jan 30 01:14:26 weepingbell attacking gastly with 'wrap', the attack will fail (because ghastly is.. well.. ghastly) but the status effect still rolls. if the status effect is successful, ghastly can't move, and the next time 'wrap' "hits", it will "hurt" ghastly, but do 0 damage (instead of simply not being effective) Jan 30 01:14:28 i'm a dork Jan 30 01:14:30 * zsoc crys Jan 30 01:19:13 "Although Wrap cannot affect Ghost-types, it can still make them unable to move. This effect only occurs in Generation I, though. " Jan 30 01:19:17 nope, documented, sorry :p Jan 30 01:19:52 zsoc: it's okay, you're still a dork Jan 30 01:20:02 http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Wrap behold bulbapedia, which has more info on pokemon than you ever possibly want to know. (you might be interested in the glitch article, fyi) Jan 30 01:20:13 http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Glitches <-- glitch article Jan 30 01:20:49 VincentLaw: crap, lol Jan 30 01:21:09 i like how you went to find it :> Jan 30 01:22:16 :p Jan 30 01:22:44 I only looked cause I'd be shocked if it weren't in bulbapedia. those guys that maintain that wiki are insane and have no free time Jan 30 01:24:15 Does anyone have any insight into why my Pre occasionally runs 30 to 50% CPU with no cards? I can't figure out what is running. Top command shows either LunaSysMgr or java on top. Jan 30 01:24:15 PuffTheMagic: webos layout? Jan 30 01:26:26 raster, hey man long time no see. do you still have the htc device? Jan 30 01:26:57 Can I use novaterm on my host machine to get a shell on my emulated pre? Jan 30 01:27:55 yes Jan 30 01:28:35 * zsoc has never installed the sdk Jan 30 01:28:49 nice Jan 30 01:28:50 I just typed Jan 30 01:28:57 'novaterm' and I'm connected. Jan 30 01:29:05 that was a little bit easy Jan 30 01:29:13 dcordes: g1? Jan 30 01:29:23 yea Jan 30 01:29:27 yes Jan 30 01:30:04 running anything fancy on it? been wondering about Xmsm :) Jan 30 01:31:03 nt4cats: you can also ssh -p 5522 root@localhost if you prefer ssh Jan 30 01:31:19 magic virtualbox NAT stuff Jan 30 01:31:39 destinal-work: thanks Jan 30 01:31:54 destinal-work: i use ut for my widk vb, its genius Jan 30 01:32:25 raster: i think most of the profiles (or what ever the cmdline option was on expedite) used arrows to move between the demos and there are no arrow keys on webos devices Jan 30 01:32:30 yeah, if you just need to reach into the box, virtualbox's stuff is handy Jan 30 01:43:13 I'm sorry I promise this will be [very nearly] the last question on "emulator 101". I think I recall seeing you can use novacom to transfer files ... what does the syntax for that look like? Jan 30 01:43:32 nt4cats: something like "novacom put .. something something." Jan 30 01:44:22 put file:///media/internal/somefile < somefile Jan 30 01:44:25 I think Jan 30 01:44:25 novacom put file:///home/root/tofile < fromfile Jan 30 01:44:27 yeah Jan 30 01:44:28 that's it Jan 30 01:45:38 bpadalino: ever touch precomd any more? Jan 30 01:45:43 nope Jan 30 01:45:44 :( Jan 30 01:45:46 thanks again -- I won't spam this channel with novacom 101 -- I am assuming that I annoyed my Pre when I installed the Verizon mobile hotspot stuff on it, I am trying to compare the files on my pre to the emulator to back it out by hand. If this gets too annoying I guess I'll break my Doctor virginity ... Jan 30 01:46:31 .. but I'm trying to fix it myself instead of whining at one of you to help me Jan 30 01:46:35 bear in mind the emulator is way different from pre Jan 30 01:46:52 destinal-pre: I'm assuming that the daemon config files will be the same Jan 30 01:47:04 x86 instead of arm just to begin Jan 30 01:47:06 (for the mobilehotspotd stuff) Jan 30 01:47:28 no ide, but I wouldn't be so sure Jan 30 01:47:42 extract doctor rootfs Jan 30 01:47:52 I also have a doctor rootfs handy Jan 30 01:47:58 I'll check that for the files,then Jan 30 01:48:00 it'll look more like what you want Jan 30 01:48:19 ... but I'm still glad to know how to connect up to my emulator Jan 30 01:49:03 you can do all kinds of fun testing and experimentation in the emu, yeah Jan 30 01:49:28 its very handy (and always i n "dev mode" so to speak) Jan 30 01:50:41 destinal-pre: and I actually am a developer by trade, and I wish I had the time to hack on it -- but I work for a startup (pretty demanding time-wise) and I have 2 young kids, so I don't really have "side project" time at this stage in my file Jan 30 01:50:42 dcordes - nah. just android 1.5 + fiddliing with the os. i dont like android. partly due to it being not linux, and partly that it just feels like i'm looking at soem ugly hybrid of solairs + windows pretending to be linux. Jan 30 01:50:45 s/file/life/ Jan 30 01:50:46 nt4cats meant: destinal-pre: and I actually am a developer by trade, and I wish I had the time to hack on it -- but I work for a startup (pretty demanding time-wise) and I have 2 young kids, so I don't really have "side project" time at this stage in my life Jan 30 01:51:09 yeah I understand, Jan 30 01:51:19 PuffTheMagic: oooh the engines u mean. yes. they do use arrrow keys. u do know u can use the mouse too? just drag left and right. clikc on button at bottom to begin test Jan 30 01:51:23 (click again to end test) Jan 30 01:51:43 hmmm noo i didnt Jan 30 01:52:21 i think I'll turn off cryptofs on general principle Jan 30 01:58:41 grrr Jan 30 01:59:07 I wish there was an easy way to find big directories in linux.. and have them listed in human readable Jan 30 02:00:02 du -mlh --max-depth={some small number like 1 or 2} Jan 30 02:00:05 dBsooner: there isnt? Jan 30 02:00:12 :> Jan 30 02:00:17 ther eis.. I just don't know. :) Jan 30 02:00:45 find Jan 30 02:00:54 i don't want to find files Jan 30 02:00:57 I want to find dirs Jan 30 02:01:30 dBsooner: that'll give you a directory-level summary of disk space Jan 30 02:01:33 look at the source of the Disk Usage Analyzer in debian? Jan 30 02:01:34 err disk usage Jan 30 02:02:30 if you have lots of small dirs listed grep the output for "G" -- you'll get some things with G in their names, but you'll mostly see things that are gigs in size Jan 30 02:03:11 I use "du -mlh --max-depth=1" enough that I have it aliased to "dux" in my shell (and I only have 2 other aliases) Jan 30 02:04:53 very nice Jan 30 02:05:08 much better than what I was trying Jan 30 02:05:17 which lsited it by blocks used Jan 30 02:05:22 using sort Jan 30 02:06:00 du -mlh --max-depth=2 | grep G is pretty much genius Jan 30 02:06:18 * nt4cats blushes Jan 30 02:06:25 ~dux Jan 30 02:06:48 infobot: dux is "du -mlh --max-depth=2 | grep G" Jan 30 02:06:50 okay, dBsooner Jan 30 02:07:00 lulz Jan 30 02:07:03 now I'll never forget it Jan 30 02:07:04 :) Jan 30 02:07:10 er, well infobot won Jan 30 02:07:12 't ;) Jan 30 02:07:42 true Jan 30 02:08:14 WOW Jan 30 02:08:15 there she is Jan 30 02:08:22 a 289GB log file Jan 30 02:08:29 LOL Jan 30 02:08:30 no shiz Jan 30 02:08:33 epin Jan 30 02:08:39 . /var/log/bandwidth Jan 30 02:08:49 was set to kernel=.debug Jan 30 02:09:08 dBsooner: wow, there's a lot of data in there. Looking ... Jan 30 02:09:08 sorry kern.=debug Jan 30 02:09:28 dBsooner: you've been spending a log of time on "www.eskimoporn.com" Jan 30 02:09:39 nt4cats: it's my server.. Jan 30 02:09:55 nt4cats: my server does A LOT of communication apparently. Jan 30 02:10:19 hmm Jan 30 02:10:25 "vi /var/log/bandwidth" Jan 30 02:10:32 I wonder why that's freezing.. :( Jan 30 02:10:45 dBsooner: you really wonder? Jan 30 02:10:51 vi -R {huge file} would be better, but still not very good. Jan 30 02:10:55 Jan 30 02:11:12 nt4cats: eskimo porn is actually horrifying, if you think about it. Jan 30 02:11:15 cat it for great justice Jan 30 02:11:16 all I did was tail the last 100 lines Jan 30 02:11:25 I would have used less Jan 30 02:11:27 its literally EVERY PACKET.. packet by packet Jan 30 02:11:40 zsoc: just people dressed in fur rubbing their noses together. Nothing wrong with that Jan 30 02:11:53 how is babby formed? Jan 30 02:11:56 zsoc: ... for consenting adults, for sure. Jan 30 02:12:33 zsoc: just like everywhere else. The mommy and the daddy hold hands, and if they step on a sidewalk crack at the same time, a baby happens. Jan 30 02:12:41 duh! Jan 30 02:12:51 excerent Jan 30 02:13:41 nt4cats: memefail? Jan 30 02:13:55 :) Jan 30 02:14:13 i dont think he's from that side of the internet Jan 30 02:15:58 the video of that yahoo answer is hilarious Jan 30 02:16:08 I'm from many sides of the interwebs, but the term "memefail" has no special meaning to me Jan 30 02:16:42 (e.g. I'm a redditor, I used to spend a lot of time on fark, ... not a /b/) Jan 30 02:17:13 *sigh* Jan 30 02:17:23 waitin for facebook zynga poker Jan 30 02:17:23 :D Jan 30 02:17:29 quite a few redditors in here Jan 30 02:17:32 ew, failbook Jan 30 02:17:40 u failed at life? Jan 30 02:17:56 i, for one, accept our new reddit overlords Jan 30 02:17:58 fazed > fark Jan 30 02:18:10 heh Jan 30 02:18:12 i agree. Jan 30 02:18:16 no, i win at life, which is why i dont need failbook to reassure myself that people like me Jan 30 02:18:35 however the redittors are fear/conspi/racist Jan 30 02:18:47 acydlord you failed. i dont believe you. Jan 30 02:19:06 you dont need to oc80z Jan 30 02:19:12 nt4cats: http://lmgtfy?q=babby+formed Jan 30 02:19:13 unless you are from some homogeneous society Jan 30 02:19:22 where it -really- doesnt matter.. Jan 30 02:19:43 cause individuality is unlike here. Jan 30 02:20:01 oh ur from philly Jan 30 02:20:13 GO BRADY Jan 30 02:20:18 philly? Jan 30 02:20:24 w/e kid Jan 30 02:20:44 lol @ kid, don't go getting all internet hardass in here kthx Jan 30 02:20:47 ACYD 4 LYFE YOH Jan 30 02:21:10 * zsoc is 5 popped collars cool Jan 30 02:21:14 oh fuck yes Jan 30 02:21:23 someone hack webOS now Jan 30 02:21:25 :-X Jan 30 02:21:34 * zsoc hacks webos Jan 30 02:21:34 zomg Jan 30 02:21:39 yeah i agree. Jan 30 02:22:03 I'm not going to let me google that for you, but I Jan 30 02:22:14 I'll gladly google that term all for myself ;) Jan 30 02:22:42 i wish i hadnt let poppedcollar.info expire Jan 30 02:23:21 there's a video, watch it then hack something :P Jan 30 02:23:40 the internet is a beautiful place Jan 30 02:23:54 ... kinda makes me want to party hard Jan 30 02:24:32 omg it spins Jan 30 02:26:47 yooo Jan 30 02:26:49 this celtics game Jan 30 02:28:47 HEY KID. WANT TO SEE MY POKEMANS Jan 30 02:30:39 destinal-pre: I just transferred the contents of /etc/pmnetconfig/ from the doctor rootfs to my pre and rebooted. Not quite hacking, but not quite inane, either. Jan 30 02:31:27 nt4cats: thank you, sir. I feel better :) Jan 30 02:32:29 Okay, I can still surf the interwebs from my Pre Jan 30 02:44:36 zsoc: yo Jan 30 02:57:16 Puff: anything interesting going on? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 30 02:59:57 2010