**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 31 02:59:57 2010
Jan 31 03:00:17 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: i'm honestly not as useful as people make me out to be :/
Jan 31 03:00:23 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: lol
Jan 31 03:00:40 <PuffTheMagic> raster: did you guys have a bug tracker with enterminus bugs listed in it?
Jan 31 03:03:22 <R_E> zsoc: just doctored my pre and the keyboard is working fine, so it  must have been a software issue
Jan 31 03:04:01 <zsoc> R_E: good to know. would be even cooler if you could recreate it.
Jan 31 03:04:12 <raster> PuffTheMagic: no one files bugs for it.. becauuse its still protoype
Jan 31 03:04:19 <raster> and no one is going to look at the bugs and fix them
Jan 31 03:04:20 <raster> :)
Jan 31 03:04:26 <raster> (because its still a prototype)
Jan 31 03:04:27 <raster> :)
Jan 31 03:04:36 <raster> we do have a bug tracker tho
Jan 31 03:05:20 <zsoc> raster: how about "the guy that worked on it"? ;)
Jan 31 03:06:07 <raster> he's off doing other work
Jan 31 03:06:10 <raster> he floats around on irc
Jan 31 03:06:14 <egaudet> I think I'm wasting my time
Jan 31 03:06:18 <raster> but doesnt do any work on e anymore
Jan 31 03:06:45 <R_E> zsoc: when i went to auto-update patches, the virtualkeyboard wouldn't work, so per the precentral forums, i deleted the virtual keyboard in media\internal then it reinstalled correctly, but seems i lost keyboard
Jan 31 03:07:30 <zsoc> i see, on both accounts.
Jan 31 03:07:38 <zsoc> egaudet: that's unfortunate :(
Jan 31 03:07:58 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: with the themes?
Jan 31 03:08:02 <egaudet> yea
Jan 31 03:08:08 <PuffTheMagic> why is that?
Jan 31 03:08:16 <riskable> I think I'm going to get pygame working on WebOS and write a tutorial on how to use the Freeze utility to turn any old pygame app into a binary executable
Jan 31 03:08:20 <egaudet> ALL i have is launcher icons
Jan 31 03:08:32 <zsoc> riskable: pygame is nifty :) seemed kinda.. large.
Jan 31 03:08:41 <egaudet> I just opened this l4d theme and there's a bajillion other images
Jan 31 03:08:49 <riskable> Large?  How big is Quake again? :)
Jan 31 03:09:10 <VincentLaw> 9mb
Jan 31 03:09:14 <zsoc> egaudet: i told you it's ridiculous
Jan 31 03:09:20 <zsoc> riskable: i get it :p
Jan 31 03:09:59 <PuffTheMagic> riskable: :D, i've been thinking about trying pygame
Jan 31 03:10:45 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic: oy
Jan 31 03:11:52 <riskable> NFSU takes up 124MB on my Pre.  I think a few extra megs for Python (~3.5MB) and pygame (~1.4MB) aren't going to make enough of a difference for users to care :P
Jan 31 03:12:42 <PuffTheMagic> xcomp: eta on elementary?
Jan 31 03:12:48 <PuffTheMagic> oh well nm
Jan 31 03:12:54 <PuffTheMagic> it works for sdl sw already dont it
Jan 31 03:13:09 <xcomp> hey ... how come the engadget podcast on "apple free engadget" is full of apple stuff
Jan 31 03:13:58 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic: soon
Jan 31 03:14:11 <riskable> I wrote a web-based administration interface for OpenWRT in Python to fit in an 8MB firmware image...  If Python + my 1.4MB app (PyCI) fits in something that small I don't think it is too much to ask that a WebOS game take up 5-10MB (depending on graphics =)
Jan 31 03:14:29 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: of course new themes arent going to be as easy to convert from old ones
Jan 31 03:14:50 <riskable> Anyway, I'm off to bed.  I'll see if I can get pygame working on Monday
Jan 31 03:14:52 <xcomp> PuffTheMagic: and yes, software sdl is already in
Jan 31 03:15:00 <zsoc> riskable: you're 100 percent right :) later
Jan 31 03:15:09 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: let the theme devs switch to the new spec if the care
Jan 31 03:15:14 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: just come up with your own theme
Jan 31 03:15:16 <PuffTheMagic> using the new spec
Jan 31 03:15:23 <riskable> If I can get pygame ported (I don't forsee any major hurdles other than figuring out the cross compile dependencies) that will mean a whole slew of new games that can be ported to WebOS
Jan 31 03:15:25 <PuffTheMagic> as an example
Jan 31 03:15:35 <egaudet> yeah
Jan 31 03:15:43 <PuffTheMagic> and the spec will evolve
Jan 31 03:15:54 <PuffTheMagic> and it will be promoted as a better way of themeing
Jan 31 03:16:05 <PuffTheMagic> and hopefully people will demand morethemes ported to it
Jan 31 03:16:05 <PuffTheMagic> idk
Jan 31 03:16:20 <zsoc> Wow. Puff thinking about users/user reaction?
Jan 31 03:16:26 <xcomp> this is the craziest day ever
Jan 31 03:16:34 <destinal-home> xcomp: /
Jan 31 03:16:36 <destinal-home> xcomp: ?
Jan 31 03:16:48 <destinal-home> oh, heh, now I get it
Jan 31 03:16:50 <dtzWill> anyone know why evas is looking for fribidi or where it would be? (or even what that is? (although i haven't googled yet))
Jan 31 03:16:50 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: i think about users all the time
Jan 31 03:16:59 <dtzWill> i mean evas in the cross-compile.git
Jan 31 03:16:59 <egaudet> I just need someone who is good at themeing and interested
Jan 31 03:17:08 <xcomp> dtzWill: fribidi is for bidirectional text support (hebrew, arabic etc)
Jan 31 03:17:28 <egaudet> So any theme designers around ? :P
Jan 31 03:17:30 <dtzWill> xcomp: is it supposed to be requiring it? (and is it supposed to be a dependency)
Jan 31 03:17:34 <zsoc> dtzWill: say it outloud, it's funny as hell
Jan 31 03:17:39 <dtzWill> xcomp: thanks for the info and fast reply :)
Jan 31 03:17:48 <dtzWill> zsoc: hahaha good call :)
Jan 31 03:17:55 <xcomp> dtzWill: it's not required and I haven't staged it ... but if it becomes in demand I'll add to stage
Jan 31 03:18:05 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: so how are u doing the launcher icon stuff
Jan 31 03:18:12 <zsoc> that's one thing i love about my pre... utf8 ftw
Jan 31 03:18:26 <PuffTheMagic> is there like, a json file with app id paired with filename?
Jan 31 03:18:31 <PuffTheMagic> something really simple
Jan 31 03:18:34 <egaudet> I'm doing it all in C
Jan 31 03:18:57 <PuffTheMagic> so what is the spec for the the launch icons?
Jan 31 03:19:15 <egaudet> com.palm.applicationManager/listLaunchPoints {}
Jan 31 03:19:31 <PuffTheMagic> ?
Jan 31 03:19:49 <egaudet> com.palm.applicationManager/updateLaunchPointIcon {launchPointId: , icon: }
Jan 31 03:20:04 <PuffTheMagic> i didnt ask how its changed
Jan 31 03:20:21 <zsoc> why is vector so sexy?
Jan 31 03:20:49 * xcomp is still amazed at how it is possible to create a functional device with transistors that are only 20 atoms wide
Jan 31 03:20:55 <egaudet> well the API is just put icon.png in /media/internal/.themes/<theme_name>/<default_path_to_icon>
Jan 31 03:21:01 <geist> vector victor
Jan 31 03:21:05 <geist> roger
Jan 31 03:21:09 <PuffTheMagic> xcomp: imersion lithography
Jan 31 03:21:35 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: ok this is what i was thinking
Jan 31 03:21:37 <zsoc> geist: classy :p
Jan 31 03:21:45 <geist> roger
Jan 31 03:21:49 <dtzWill> xcomp: kk no big deal mine's needing it right now is all, i can just not build evas for now.
Jan 31 03:21:54 <xcomp> destinal-home: stayed up till 5am getting evas/gl to work, then moved in a new roommate today, just came back from one event and about to head out to another one
Jan 31 03:22:08 <xcomp> dtzWill: ot
Jan 31 03:22:14 <xcomp> dtzWill: it's *requiring* it?
Jan 31 03:22:23 <destinal-home> xcomp: ah
Jan 31 03:22:23 <dtzWill> xcomp: well the build is failing without it :)
Jan 31 03:22:38 <xcomp> dtzWill: you're not building in cross-compile are you?
Jan 31 03:22:44 <dtzWill> xcomp: i didn't look into it at all since i wasn't sure if this was a WIP or not
Jan 31 03:22:50 <xcomp> destinal-home: and I have to be in church in the morning :)
Jan 31 03:23:22 <dtzWill> xcomp: hmm? i was just building fresh b/c i have a habit of install things into my sb2 env and i want to make sure w/e i do works cleanly for everyone else
Jan 31 03:23:48 <xcomp> dtzWill: yeah that's not supposed to happen -- evas in cross-compile should build cleanly
Jan 31 03:24:17 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: http://dpaste.com/152792/
Jan 31 03:24:46 <xcomp> dtzWill: I definitely don't have libfribidi anywhere in my staging area/cross compile environment
Jan 31 03:24:47 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: i was thinking the service would load a file like that and then make the service call to update the appropriate icon
Jan 31 03:25:13 <dtzWill> xcomp: kk i'll look into it then if i get a chance. tyvm for the info
Jan 31 03:25:36 <egaudet> it makes it more complicated
Jan 31 03:25:49 <PuffTheMagic> parse a json list
Jan 31 03:25:54 <PuffTheMagic> that from a file
Jan 31 03:25:56 <PuffTheMagic> pretty easy
Jan 31 03:26:01 <PuffTheMagic> loop though the keypair
Jan 31 03:26:04 <PuffTheMagic> pretty eay
Jan 31 03:26:05 <PuffTheMagic> easy
Jan 31 03:26:22 <VincentLaw> so dtz, when is vba going to read my mind so i don't have to deal with the pre's keyboard sucking >(
Jan 31 03:26:41 <egaudet> and then I have to keep track of every single icon touched OR set them all back to default before modifying them for the next theme
Jan 31 03:26:42 <PuffTheMagic> VincentLaw: one i release my bluetooth eeg headsets
Jan 31 03:26:57 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: yeah sure... not to hard
Jan 31 03:27:13 <egaudet> but there's nothing to gain
Jan 31 03:27:31 <egaudet> just drop in <path to app icon> in the theme dir
Jan 31 03:28:03 <PuffTheMagic> u are gonna unionfs it?
Jan 31 03:28:04 <egaudet> I mean I suppose
Jan 31 03:28:21 <egaudet> it would be better since you don't need to know the path
Jan 31 03:28:33 <egaudet> how about just an <theme_dir>/icons/<packageid>.png
Jan 31 03:28:52 <egaudet> launchIcons/<packageid>.png
Jan 31 03:28:58 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: you could do that too... but i figure other theme spec stuff might go in this file too
Jan 31 03:29:10 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, unionfs is on the back burner, want to do as much as possible without it
Jan 31 03:29:11 <PuffTheMagic> even though i called it icon.theme in the example
Jan 31 03:29:45 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: i think the file would be better than renaming files
Jan 31 03:30:01 <PuffTheMagic> that way multiple icons could use same icon if someone wanted
Jan 31 03:30:01 <egaudet> what file is being renamed?
Jan 31 03:30:04 <PuffTheMagic> if there wa a reason
Jan 31 03:30:24 <PuffTheMagic> well if u are making a theme i would assume u are getting the icon from some icon pack maybe
Jan 31 03:30:27 <PuffTheMagic> it already has a name
Jan 31 03:30:36 <PuffTheMagic> so u just drop it in to a folder
Jan 31 03:30:46 <PuffTheMagic> and leave the name as is and set it in the config file
Jan 31 03:30:53 <PuffTheMagic> or u rename it ot match some apps id
Jan 31 03:31:05 <egaudet> I just think a json file has too much room for error
Jan 31 03:31:17 <egaudet> and user confusion
Jan 31 03:31:29 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet:  baa,, soo many themes have a spec file of some sort
Jan 31 03:31:32 <egaudet> I dealt with the stupid json file for the keyboard themeing
Jan 31 03:31:34 <PuffTheMagic> people manage it
Jan 31 03:31:45 <egaudet> it's a terrible way to manage it
Jan 31 03:31:59 <PuffTheMagic> config files work for nearly every linux app
Jan 31 03:32:19 <egaudet> yea well if we are going to make more work for parsing a file, i rather have that file be something of better syntax than stupid json
Jan 31 03:32:34 <dtzWill> VincentLaw: next version
Jan 31 03:32:38 <PuffTheMagic> idk json is pretty damn easy
Jan 31 03:32:43 <PuffTheMagic> xml is nasty
Jan 31 03:32:44 <egaudet> I'm telling you a json gets bloated and impossible to read, and it's so picky
Jan 31 03:32:56 <egaudet> look at the theme_config.json for virtual keyboard
Jan 31 03:32:58 <PuffTheMagic> yaml then?
Jan 31 03:33:01 <egaudet> it's STUPID hard to keep up with
Jan 31 03:33:10 <egaudet> and it's really not that complex
Jan 31 03:33:28 <PuffTheMagic> s-expr
Jan 31 03:33:31 <PuffTheMagic> that would be nice
Jan 31 03:33:51 <egaudet> I don't care what we end up using as long as it's simple to read and create
Jan 31 03:34:12 <egaudet> It's better to have a complicated parser than a complicated config file
Jan 31 03:34:15 <PuffTheMagic> aww u know what is really easy
Jan 31 03:34:20 <PuffTheMagic> really really
Jan 31 03:34:30 <PuffTheMagic> libconfig
Jan 31 03:34:38 <PuffTheMagic> http://www.hyperrealm.com/libconfig/
Jan 31 03:34:48 <PuffTheMagic> i've use it a few times
Jan 31 03:35:44 <PuffTheMagic> http://www.hyperrealm.com/libconfig/test.cfg.txt
Jan 31 03:35:50 <PuffTheMagic> ^^ example config
Jan 31 03:35:59 <PuffTheMagic> the api is really easy to use in C
Jan 31 03:36:39 <egaudet> that's more along the lines of what I was thinking
Jan 31 03:36:59 <egaudet> launcherIcons:
Jan 31 03:37:00 <egaudet> {
Jan 31 03:37:18 <egaudet>   packageid = <packageid>
Jan 31 03:37:24 <egaudet>   icon = <icon>
Jan 31 03:37:24 <egaudet> }
Jan 31 03:37:40 <egaudet> err
Jan 31 03:37:41 <PuffTheMagic> you mean
Jan 31 03:37:47 <PuffTheMagic> launcherIcons:
Jan 31 03:38:10 <PuffTheMagic> err
Jan 31 03:38:13 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 31 03:38:19 <PuffTheMagic> 1 sec
Jan 31 03:38:22 <PuffTheMagic> i know what ua re saying
Jan 31 03:38:44 <PuffTheMagic> u dont need a big group like that
Jan 31 03:38:46 <PuffTheMagic> just
Jan 31 03:39:39 <PuffTheMagic> launcherIcons =(
Jan 31 03:39:57 <PuffTheMagic> packageid1 = "pathtoicon"';
Jan 31 03:40:11 <PuffTheMagic> packageid2 = "pathtoanothericon";
Jan 31 03:40:13 <PuffTheMagic> );
Jan 31 03:40:45 <PuffTheMagic> or
Jan 31 03:40:56 <PuffTheMagic> launcherIcons:
Jan 31 03:40:57 <PuffTheMagic> {
Jan 31 03:41:27 <PuffTheMagic> packageid : {icon = "awsdasda"}
Jan 31 03:41:30 <PuffTheMagic> }
Jan 31 03:41:37 <PuffTheMagic> there are lots of way you could do things
Jan 31 03:43:25 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: although
Jan 31 03:43:33 <egaudet> so how is this different from json
Jan 31 03:43:56 <PuffTheMagic> it has equal signs
Jan 31 03:44:02 <PuffTheMagic> and colons
Jan 31 03:44:09 <PuffTheMagic> and white space
Jan 31 03:44:12 <PuffTheMagic> and comments
Jan 31 03:46:12 <PuffTheMagic> looks pretty easy to read
Jan 31 03:46:16 <PuffTheMagic> esp with comments
Jan 31 03:46:43 <egaudet> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Talk:Theme_Management_API
Jan 31 03:47:13 <parker1> why do some apps in preware not instal? Like palm slots
Jan 31 03:47:15 <zsoc> zomg you broke the wiki page
Jan 31 03:47:34 <zsoc> parker1: that would seem to be an issue with palm beta/web feeds playing nicely with the app catalog
Jan 31 03:47:34 <egaudet> >
Jan 31 03:47:36 <egaudet> ?
Jan 31 03:48:14 <zsoc> egaudet: PuffTheMagic: we're assuming current _theme makers_ are _developers_ comfortable with writing anything that isn't in plain english, and even then shying away.
Jan 31 03:48:24 <parker1> can it be worked around?
Jan 31 03:48:28 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Talk:Theme_Management_API
Jan 31 03:48:32 <PuffTheMagic> i added my version
Jan 31 03:48:38 <zsoc> although maybe your "theme api" will be a good intelligence test..
Jan 31 03:48:38 <egaudet> zsoc, it's the opposite, we are trying to come up with an easy to read/create config file
Jan 31 03:48:40 <egaudet> first and foremost
Jan 31 03:49:02 <zsoc> egaudet: 'easy' to you is different from non-developers
Jan 31 03:49:08 <zsoc> to them, that's "scripting"
Jan 31 03:49:13 <zsoc> it's probably a good thing anyway
Jan 31 03:49:15 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, with yours you leave no room for "css = " etc..
Jan 31 03:49:27 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: oh u want to do it like that ok
Jan 31 03:49:30 <PuffTheMagic> 1 sec
Jan 31 03:49:38 <egaudet> zsoc, find me where in the world of themeing anything, that you don't need to know something about the structure of the setup?
Jan 31 03:50:55 <egaudet> And of course we also have the desktop theme builder solution for designers
Jan 31 03:51:14 <zsoc> egaudet: prethemer.com generates everything for you
Jan 31 03:51:26 <egaudet> and prethemer theme builder
Jan 31 03:51:28 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: i threw my idea into the hat
Jan 31 03:51:33 <zsoc> egaudet: well then sir, i like it
Jan 31 03:52:49 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, we might want to switch back to json
Jan 31 03:52:56 <PuffTheMagic> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Talk:Theme_Management_API
Jan 31 03:53:00 <egaudet> I'm thinking about CSS now
Jan 31 03:53:22 <PuffTheMagic> i added a new version
Jan 31 03:53:27 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, not all launcher icons are applications
Jan 31 03:53:43 <PuffTheMagic> they dont have to contain all fields
Jan 31 03:53:47 <PuffTheMagic> let me update it
Jan 31 03:53:51 <egaudet> sprint portal icon's appid is browser
Jan 31 03:54:45 <egaudet> although it's "launchPointId" is com.palm.app.sprint or whatever it is
Jan 31 03:54:48 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: there
Jan 31 03:55:43 <egaudet> The thing is I don't think I can do anything with the CSS from C
Jan 31 03:55:56 <PuffTheMagic> if it were json though hen Jasons theme builder could construct these files easier
Jan 31 03:56:00 <egaudet> That probably has to be handled via patched framework javascript
Jan 31 03:56:16 <egaudet> so JSON is probably going to be needed/better
Jan 31 03:56:31 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: well to backtrack a little
Jan 31 03:56:50 <PuffTheMagic> you could do the launch icon stuf as its own independent file in the theme directory
Jan 31 03:56:58 <PuffTheMagic> and get the implemented and solid
Jan 31 03:57:02 <PuffTheMagic> as a base to work from
Jan 31 03:58:34 <egaudet> the implementation part and C part I'm not worried about
Jan 31 03:58:40 <egaudet> i can handle that however it ends up
Jan 31 04:00:26 <bsneed> what would be a good name for a palm gui toolkit?
Jan 31 04:06:21 <zsoc> bsneed: Elementary? :D xD
Jan 31 04:06:22 <zsoc> xD
Jan 31 04:07:04 * bsneed wonders what's so funny about that
Jan 31 04:07:06 <bsneed> hehe
Jan 31 04:07:32 <zsoc> someone will read the backlogs and chuckle, that's all that counts :p
Jan 31 04:08:08 <zsoc> bsneed: by toolkit, do you mean widget set? or a wysiwyg like the one they have with the funny name?
Jan 31 04:08:15 <zsoc> (also this is probably #webos territory)
Jan 31 04:09:00 <bsneed> a widget set an accompanying app framework
Jan 31 04:09:10 <bsneed> akin to UIKit on the iphone, all native..
Jan 31 04:09:34 <bsneed> an = and
Jan 31 04:11:28 <zsoc> Right... so... Elementary :D
Jan 31 04:11:58 <bsneed> it'd be helpful for me if you explained that. :)
Jan 31 04:12:34 <zsoc> http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary
Jan 31 04:12:46 <tmzt> bsneed: enlightment's is called elementary
Jan 31 04:12:53 <tmzt> one of them
Jan 31 04:13:22 <tmzt> so I got to look at Pre Plus today and can't figure out how to do anything
Jan 31 04:13:23 <bsneed> ah, i see.
Jan 31 04:13:33 <bsneed> is someone in the process of porting that or something?
Jan 31 04:14:27 <tmzt> if X was ported
Jan 31 04:14:33 <zsoc> bsneed: indeed, most of the framework (efls) have been played with, and evas seems to be working pretty fully
Jan 31 04:14:34 <tmzt> but evas runs on sdl
Jan 31 04:14:37 <tmzt> as well
Jan 31 04:14:55 <tmzt> hmm, maybe fso would run
Jan 31 04:15:41 <bsneed> ah, interesting.
Jan 31 04:48:23 <Abyssul> hello
Jan 31 04:59:09 <PuffTheMagic> raster: hows the Carousel switched coming along?
Jan 31 04:59:16 <PuffTheMagic> for elementary
Jan 31 04:59:46 <Abyssul> eh?
Jan 31 05:03:38 <egaudet> I think themes are possessed
Jan 31 05:04:03 <christpunk01-pre> I know I'm dumb but I can't seem to get the new "no auto-off screen while charging" patch to work. I have the toggle switch, so it's installed but it doesn't work.
Jan 31 05:04:21 <PuffTheMagic> that patch is crap
Jan 31 05:04:25 <PuffTheMagic> we need an ipkg
Jan 31 05:04:27 <PuffTheMagic> with just a postinst
Jan 31 05:04:33 <PuffTheMagic> that runs the luna-send command
Jan 31 05:04:42 <PuffTheMagic> to turn it on
Jan 31 05:04:52 <PuffTheMagic> and thne prerm luna-send turn it off
Jan 31 05:04:59 <egaudet> my pre is scaring me
Jan 31 05:05:02 <egaudet> I don't know what happened
Jan 31 05:05:07 <egaudet> but my screen is black
Jan 31 05:05:10 <egaudet> except the top bar
Jan 31 05:05:13 <christpunk01-pre> Aye. So it's not me then? Well, that sucks, cause the old one worked.
Jan 31 05:05:25 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: broken css or js?
Jan 31 05:05:44 <egaudet> and my notification popup when I plug in usb is blank just a black box
Jan 31 05:05:59 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, all my md5sums are stock according to /usr/lib/ipkg/info/*.md5sums
Jan 31 05:06:18 <christpunk01-pre> Crazy. What theme is it?
Jan 31 05:06:19 <PuffTheMagic> have u rebooted?
Jan 31 05:06:23 <egaudet> yes I rebooted
Jan 31 05:06:26 <egaudet> no theme
Jan 31 05:06:43 <egaudet> as in no currently existing theme
Jan 31 05:06:52 <egaudet> as are installed nowadays
Jan 31 05:06:56 <egaudet> but I don't know wtf is going on
Jan 31 05:07:49 <christpunk01-pre> Oh. What the heck did you do ?
Jan 31 05:08:09 <egaudet> apparently something outside of what Palm tracks for md5sums
Jan 31 05:08:26 <egaudet> Oh I found it
Jan 31 05:09:03 <egaudet> when you break the framework file, and it has a failure coming up it touches /var/v8-builtins-failed   which you have to remove otherwise it stays screwed apparently
Jan 31 05:09:31 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 31 05:09:40 <PuffTheMagic> disables js
Jan 31 05:21:53 <Kyusaku> zsoc's contribution to the theme management is really helpful
Jan 31 05:24:22 <geist> md5sums dont check anything in /var
Jan 31 05:24:42 <geist>  /var is assumed to be empty on start and gets autogenerated
Jan 31 05:30:24 <dBsooner> rwhitby: you back around yet?
Jan 31 05:33:35 <dBsooner> where do attachments get saved wheny ou download them?
Jan 31 05:36:50 <geist> /media/internal i believe
Jan 31 05:37:41 <Kyusaku> mail attachments don't
Jan 31 05:38:01 <Kyusaku> they get saved in the mailbox buckets I believe
Jan 31 05:38:44 <Kyusaku> it's so aggrivating how it doesn't save attachements to /media/internal
Jan 31 05:39:33 <PuffTheMagic> raster: i've never really looked, does efl work on macs/windows?
Jan 31 05:41:08 <Kyusaku> dBsooner: check /var/luna/data/emails/
Jan 31 05:46:12 <dBsooner> MMm
Jan 31 05:46:17 <dBsooner> I found it earlier
Jan 31 05:46:33 <dBsooner> . /var/luna/data/attachments
Jan 31 05:46:46 <dBsooner> BadKitty is going to be my new Twitter app very soon.
Jan 31 05:47:45 <dBsooner> Adora!
Jan 31 05:47:52 * dBsooner loves @BadKitty!
Jan 31 05:47:55 <Adora> dBsooner!
Jan 31 05:48:06 <Adora> I haven't checked the latest update yet
Jan 31 05:48:16 <Adora> the last two, actually
Jan 31 05:48:25 <dBsooner> It's going to be awesome once some more stuff is added.
Jan 31 05:48:34 * Adora installs now
Jan 31 05:48:47 <dBsooner> he just invited me. :)
Jan 31 05:49:05 <Adora> I find it funny that I have to move my own "bad kitty" to plug in my usb cable
Jan 31 05:49:20 <Adora> she's taking up the entire left side of my laptop
Jan 31 05:49:58 <dBsooner> Adora: I installed mine without de-virginizing my Pre.
Jan 31 05:50:29 <dBsooner> had to do a "find / -name *.zip" from a shell, but it came through.
Jan 31 05:50:55 <dBsooner> @Palm shoudl really add the feature of allowing you to save attachments to /media/internal
Jan 31 05:50:57 <dBsooner> Just saying.
Jan 31 05:51:08 <Kyusaku> yep
Jan 31 05:52:41 <dBsooner> Maybe @Adora could make a patch.
Jan 31 05:53:14 <Adora> any patch I make would involve making the phone meow at random
Jan 31 05:53:18 <Adora> just sayin
Jan 31 05:53:38 <gkatsev> Adora: you totally should do that
Jan 31 05:53:58 <dBsooner> I wonder if BadKitty was named for Adora.
Jan 31 05:54:06 <Adora> that's actually kinda my "first app" idea
Jan 31 05:54:22 <dBsooner> Forget the whole play on "twitter" and 'tweet' and 'birds' vs a "cat"..
Jan 31 05:54:26 <Adora> open a picture (presumably of your cat)
Jan 31 05:54:35 <Adora> and when you pet it, it purrs and vibrates
Jan 31 05:54:41 <Adora> and if you poke it, it meows
Jan 31 05:54:51 <Adora> and I'd call it meowadora
Jan 31 05:54:56 <dBsooner> "No kitty! My pot pie!"
Jan 31 05:55:44 <gkatsev> is bad kitty finally being close to being released? i remember seeing a video of it like 4 months ago or something
Jan 31 05:55:54 * dBsooner is going to call @microsoft up to complain about #Technet taking FOR FRICKIN EVER on downloads lately.
Jan 31 05:56:11 <Adora> gkatsev: they certainly have been taking a while
Jan 31 05:56:25 <gkatsev> i like the logo, lol
Jan 31 05:56:32 <Adora> seems closer, but I don't know how much they have left before they think it's ready
Jan 31 05:56:39 <dBsooner> Are they still considering making a free app?
Jan 31 05:56:59 <dBsooner> Adora: as I see it, there is still quite a lot of "touch ups" to do.
Jan 31 05:57:09 <dBsooner> Missing menu functions, mislabeled functions, etc.
Jan 31 05:57:55 <dBsooner> And I hope they add different picture/short_url sites.
Jan 31 05:57:59 <gkatsev> they have a blog. http://superinhuman.posterous.com/
Jan 31 05:58:12 <Adora> dBsooner: why does nobody use flickr!
Jan 31 05:58:16 <Adora> fucks me off, I tell ya
Jan 31 05:58:29 <Adora> (wait, I forget...is this a PG chan?)
Jan 31 05:58:36 <gkatsev> lol
Jan 31 05:59:00 <dBsooner> Adora: I use flickr!
Jan 31 05:59:02 <gkatsev> what i dont like is when people use tweetgoo or w/e. that website is soooo fing slow.
Jan 31 05:59:08 <dBsooner> Adora: but you haven't friended me. :(
Jan 31 05:59:11 <Adora> dBsooner: I mean for twitter uploads
Jan 31 05:59:16 <dBsooner> ohhh
Jan 31 05:59:24 <gkatsev> its slow on my core i7 machine, you bet it will be slow on a pre.
Jan 31 05:59:31 <dBsooner> bc the url would be extremely long? ;)
Jan 31 05:59:47 <Adora> there's a built in shortener, but I think only flickr can use it
Jan 31 06:00:02 <Adora> or pipe the flickr url to bit.ly
Jan 31 06:00:03 <gkatsev> yeah, a lot of sites are doing that now
Jan 31 06:00:08 <dBsooner> That's dumb. You would think they would add it to the API.
Jan 31 06:00:22 <Adora> dBsooner: they probably just haven't gotten around to it yet
Jan 31 06:00:27 <Adora> it'll come
Jan 31 06:00:33 <Adora> but it has been out for several months now
Jan 31 06:00:48 <dBsooner> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dbeames/
Jan 31 06:00:49 <Adora> now that I work for palm, I have much more sympathy for such things
Jan 31 06:00:53 <dBsooner> ^^ Just sayin.
Jan 31 06:00:53 <gkatsev> they have flic.kr/p/{id}
Jan 31 06:01:53 <dBsooner> from @digihal: The latest is that we may be days from submitting it, so it will not be too long. :)
Jan 31 06:02:00 <Adora> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sophistechate/
Jan 31 06:02:11 <Adora> ^^ Just sayin.  (you haven't added me, either!)
Jan 31 06:02:50 <Adora> I need to upload a new pic, too
Jan 31 06:02:54 <Adora> I just sent this one to fb
Jan 31 06:03:14 <dBsooner> That's just sad Adora
Jan 31 06:03:39 <dBsooner> the rows of Pre's and Pixi's that attendee's just got to "pick one"
Jan 31 06:03:55 <dBsooner> And there are thsoe of us bustin our chops to get stuff developed that can't. :(
Jan 31 06:04:20 <Adora> dBsooner: workin' on it!
Jan 31 06:04:27 <Adora> when the day comes, you will not be forgotten
Jan 31 06:04:40 <dBsooner> I wasn't saying me in general.
Jan 31 06:04:53 <dBsooner> destinal-home was in the argument too. ;)
Jan 31 06:05:07 <gkatsev> i better go sleep. its 1am for me
Jan 31 06:05:08 <gkatsev> night
Jan 31 06:05:36 <dBsooner> night gkatsev
Jan 31 06:05:53 * destinal-home wakes up
Jan 31 06:06:06 <destinal-home> dBsooner: which, what?
Jan 31 06:06:08 <dBsooner> you were asleep?
Jan 31 06:06:25 <destinal-home> no, I was distracted
Jan 31 06:06:31 <dBsooner> tmi
Jan 31 06:07:11 <destinal-home> in this case trying to get dual boot working.. it's become an obsession :)
Jan 31 06:07:28 <Adora> destinal-home: dual boot?
Jan 31 06:07:34 <dBsooner> destinal-home: there is a pick on Adora's flickr of 4 pre's and 4 pixi's
Jan 31 06:07:43 <dBsooner> that people at a conference just got to "pick one"
Jan 31 06:07:44 <destinal-home> Adora: yeah, I have a need to have multiple versions of webos on the same device
Jan 31 06:07:57 <dBsooner> Adora: It's the "poor man's" dev machine
Jan 31 06:07:59 <dBsooner> is what we are working on
Jan 31 06:08:03 <dBsooner> or he is I should say.
Jan 31 06:08:05 <Adora> dbsooner: that's just the leftovers, I showed up with 30  =P
Jan 31 06:08:13 * Adora ducks
Jan 31 06:08:15 <Kyusaku> ....
Jan 31 06:08:20 <dBsooner> No comment.
Jan 31 06:08:29 <Adora> <3 uuuuuuuuuuu
Jan 31 06:08:37 <destinal-home> Adora: so the idea is, have a service and patch to the reboot button that lets you choose which version to reboot into
Jan 31 06:08:55 <Adora> destinal-home:  that's rather genius
Jan 31 06:09:04 <destinal-home> it modifies /boot to point at the right installed copies in the right LVM partitions
Jan 31 06:09:08 <destinal-home> and reboots
Jan 31 06:09:26 <dBsooner> Adora: but it's caused him to have to recover his pre
Jan 31 06:09:34 <destinal-home> actually, not yet :)
Jan 31 06:09:38 <dBsooner> Adora: would be easier if he had a "development" device.
Jan 31 06:09:49 <destinal-home> but I expect it will before I'm done
Jan 31 06:10:11 <destinal-home> yeah I really need a dedicated development device.
Jan 31 06:10:44 <destinal-home> but for now this should help
Jan 31 06:12:32 <Adora> dBsooner: it's kinda hard for me to tell if a tweet came from the person above or the person below
Jan 31 06:12:34 <Adora> in badkitty
Jan 31 06:12:58 <dBsooner> Yeah, i agree .. I had a little bit of trouble there too
Jan 31 06:13:01 <dBsooner> no natural seperation
Jan 31 06:13:14 <dBsooner> and the scrolls aren't very smooth.
Jan 31 06:13:20 <Kyusaku> any list integration?
Jan 31 06:13:25 <Adora> scrolls great for me
Jan 31 06:13:34 <Adora> but I'm also on a pre plus, so that might make a difference
Jan 31 06:13:46 <dBsooner> you can leavce now
Jan 31 06:13:54 <destinal-home> Adora: I'm totally jealous :)
Jan 31 06:13:56 <Kyusaku> hahaha
Jan 31 06:14:09 <dBsooner> now it's scrolling better
Jan 31 06:14:11 <egaudet> is there anywhere off of /media/internal that is allowed file access to apps
Jan 31 06:14:12 <Adora> Kyusaku: no lists yet
Jan 31 06:14:13 <dBsooner> may have just been a hiccup
Jan 31 06:14:18 <Kyusaku> worthless
Jan 31 06:14:21 <dBsooner> or ... nm..
Jan 31 06:15:00 <Rick_work> egaudet  no
Jan 31 06:15:21 <dBsooner> Adora: That little down arrow helps.. the one that points down into the avatar of the tweeter.
Jan 31 06:15:34 <Adora> dBsooner: yeah, a little...I still get mixed up, though
Jan 31 06:15:46 <destinal-home> dBsooner: so, probably the right place for this is in a modified webos doctor or a custom install tool, because having to backup and restore images of root and var can't be the best way to go
Jan 31 06:15:50 <egaudet> Is there any js call to get actual path name (i.e. resolve symlink) Rick_work ?
Jan 31 06:16:41 <dBsooner> Good job Adora.. post that pic of those Dev's ideas on the whiteboard.
Jan 31 06:16:49 <dBsooner> I kinda like the one about "How far did I drive/run?"
Jan 31 06:17:01 <Adora> they were public!
Jan 31 06:17:14 <Adora> posting what they were interested in to see if anyone else there wanted to pair up
Jan 31 06:17:23 <dBsooner> ohh
Jan 31 06:17:26 <Adora> to learn together
Jan 31 06:17:33 <Adora> none of those were million dollar ideas  =]
Jan 31 06:17:49 <dBsooner> but we real devs have million dollar ideas
Jan 31 06:17:50 <Adora> these were ruby devs writing their first webOS apps
Jan 31 06:17:55 <dBsooner> they have to pay to attend these seminars?
Jan 31 06:18:03 <dBsooner> and I bet they have to activate those devices, huh?
Jan 31 06:18:06 <Adora> nope, this one was free
Jan 31 06:18:14 <Adora> 30 days free service, then they're on their own
Jan 31 06:18:29 <dBsooner> Ruby devs.. rofl.
Jan 31 06:19:11 <dBsooner> What font does palm use?
Jan 31 06:19:25 <Adora> for what?
Jan 31 06:19:32 <Adora> not that I would even know...
Jan 31 06:19:40 <dBsooner> the logo.. and all the SLideshows I have seen have the same font.
Jan 31 06:20:23 <Adora> dunno, whatthefont it
Jan 31 06:20:36 <destinal-home> Adora: clever
Jan 31 06:21:08 <destinal-home> I think I used that once, it's a cool web app
Jan 31 06:21:17 <Adora> http://new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/
Jan 31 06:21:19 <dBsooner> I guess it's time to learn Foursquare.
Jan 31 06:21:21 <sugardave> dBsooner: the font is named prelude
Jan 31 06:21:21 <Adora> it's super
Jan 31 06:21:59 <destinal-home> sugardave: oh, the one on the slide shows is the one on the phone?   yeah, prelude officially but it was called Coconut in nova long before that
Jan 31 06:22:13 <sugardave> destinal-home: oh, sorry...should have read back further
Jan 31 06:22:23 <sugardave> I don't know
Jan 31 06:22:24 <destinal-home> not sure if that's the one in the slide show
Jan 31 06:22:25 <sugardave> :D
Jan 31 06:23:26 <destinal-home> palm pre, PRElude,  what an original idea for a name?  :)
Jan 31 06:23:38 <Adora> http://new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/results?ch[0]=p&ch[1]=a&ch[2]=l&ch[3]=m&ch[4]=&ch[5]=&ch[6]=&ch[7]=&wtfserver=node7.ric.mf&id=0000e0e64b5b7e4e00018f2a00000b86&glyphcount=8&imageid=17324285
Jan 31 06:23:41 <dBsooner> ~dict foursqaure
Jan 31 06:23:45 <infobot> could not find definition for foursqaure
Jan 31 06:23:55 <Adora> if that link even works, but still...no matches
Jan 31 06:24:11 <dtzWill> Adora: link works, haha. nice try :)
Jan 31 06:25:01 <dtzWill> queue brick closed was closest i think
Jan 31 06:25:36 <egaudet> OK so what is the best solution to this problem?  I have /var/.theme -> /media/internal/.themes/<sometheme>   and the framework wants to read /var/.theme/theme_config.json.  But it's disallowed for my app to read from /var
Jan 31 06:26:26 <destinal-home> egaudet: uh, read from /media/internal/.theme then?  or do I misunderstand entirely?
Jan 31 06:26:32 <egaudet> so we can change from symlink /var/.theme   into bind mounting and unmounting somewhere on /media/internal.  Or add a service call that resolves the symlink path
Jan 31 06:26:48 <dBsooner> Yeah, sugardave got it.. its prelude.
Jan 31 06:26:56 <egaudet> destinal-home, I need a pathname that doesn't change
Jan 31 06:27:04 <egaudet> but what it points to does change
Jan 31 06:27:14 <egaudet> so either a changing bind mount, a symlink (which can't be on /media)
Jan 31 06:27:34 <destinal-home> or a bind mount to a place with a symlink
Jan 31 06:27:35 <destinal-home> :)
Jan 31 06:28:28 <destinal-home> then you don't have to change the bind mount and CAN use a symlink
Jan 31 06:28:49 <egaudet> not following
Jan 31 06:29:16 <egaudet> bind mount /media/internal onto /var/internal
Jan 31 06:29:31 <egaudet> but doesn't that mean I cannot sym link?
Jan 31 06:29:44 <egaudet> because it's still vfat
Jan 31 06:29:45 <Rick_work> Adora  destinal  identifont comes up with http://www.identifont.com/list?3+P22%20Bayer%20Universal+0+1ZJ+7+K8P+4+P7+2+AT2+2+ASY+2+KMB+2+E0B+2+MHJ+2+K8O+2+XE+2+DES+2+1SU+2+4EY+2+5VC+2+5VT+2+PBV+2+NR2+2+KM4+2+OSD+2+OSC+2+OSB+2+OSA+2+OUY+2+MP9+2+2ND+2+724+2+I4Z+2+I4V+2+MAP+1
Jan 31 06:29:52 <Rick_work> which is VERY close....
Jan 31 06:29:58 <Rick_work> but still wrong.
Jan 31 06:30:11 <Rick_work> I'm convinced it's not a commercial font, but a hand-drawn logo.
Jan 31 06:30:21 <Adora> Rick_work:  that might be the case
Jan 31 06:30:33 <egaudet> or mount /var/something onto /media/internal/something    and have /var/something/.theme -> symlink and then reference /media/internal/something/.theme
Jan 31 06:30:53 <destinal-home> the latter was what I was thinking of
Jan 31 06:30:57 <destinal-home> yeah
Jan 31 06:31:53 <destinal-home> egaudet: and we have this new standard of using /var/svc/org.webosinternals.servicename   for service related stuff
Jan 31 06:32:04 <destinal-home> not sure if that helps
Jan 31 06:32:35 <egaudet> that's the service binary?
Jan 31 06:32:44 <destinal-home> no, a directory
Jan 31 06:32:52 <Rick_work> http://new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/forum/case/178956/
Jan 31 06:32:53 <destinal-home> if you need one in var that's a standard place to put one
Jan 31 06:33:06 <Rick_work> unidentified by the largest font community on the web.  It's custom
Jan 31 06:33:14 <egaudet> ok
Jan 31 06:34:36 <destinal-home> egaudet: rwhitby needed a place to put data for his save/restore stuff that couldn't be in media so we talked over a few ideas and hit on /var/svc/<unique id>
Jan 31 06:34:45 <destinal-home> where unique id is standard service id / app id format
Jan 31 06:35:11 <destinal-home> if that doesn't make sense for what you're doing by all means ignore
Jan 31 06:35:21 <egaudet> no it does
Jan 31 06:35:37 <egaudet> /var/svc/org.webosinternals.thmapi bind mounted to /media/internal/org.webosinternals.thmapi
Jan 31 06:35:54 <egaudet> put the symlink inside there and access it via /media/internal in JS
Jan 31 06:36:12 <Rick_work> so, egaudet is the theme-config.json pointing to sparse css files like we were talking about, or is it complete replacement?
Jan 31 06:36:33 <destinal-home> I'd probably make the internal directory less obtrusive
Jan 31 06:36:36 <egaudet> sparse files
Jan 31 06:36:44 <egaudet> I updated the talk page with what i'm thinking
Jan 31 06:36:53 <destinal-home> like /media/internal/.svc/org...   or  still  /media/internal/.theme
Jan 31 06:37:00 <egaudet> it will first load a global css, and then an app specific css
Jan 31 06:37:36 <destinal-home> this way people won't be like, wtf is that, delete
Jan 31 06:37:59 <egaudet> friggin people
Jan 31 06:38:41 <egaudet> destinal-home, but . folders aren't hidden from windows by default I thought
Jan 31 06:38:42 <destinal-home> (since it would show up on flash disk)
Jan 31 06:39:06 <destinal-home> egaudet: hmm, I've never noticed the .palm dir
Jan 31 06:39:11 <destinal-home> which is where cryptofs is
Jan 31 06:39:31 <egaudet> you running windows atm?
Jan 31 06:39:47 <destinal-home> unfortunately no, my windows box died and I'm on my ubuntu laptop
Jan 31 06:39:58 <egaudet> ya know maybe I should abolish the idea of drag&drop theme installation
Jan 31 06:40:05 <egaudet> and just put this stuff on /media/cryptofs
Jan 31 06:40:32 <destinal-home> egaudet: I was totally down with installing them like hidden apps
Jan 31 06:40:50 <destinal-home> in fact I liked preware for that
Jan 31 06:41:33 <egaudet> meaning who cares about /media/internal ?  and just use offline root which means even filecoaster can install them and no postinst required
Jan 31 06:41:57 <destinal-home> yeah, I'd just use the standard offline root which is the same one everything uses
Jan 31 06:42:08 <destinal-home> and no postinst needed
Jan 31 06:42:38 <destinal-home> the only difference from now is that you'd install five or six and then select them in the app
Jan 31 06:42:42 <Rick_work> egaudet  -- rwhitby had good arguments against USB install of themes last night
Jan 31 06:43:41 <destinal-home> but I think it's a really clean separation to have your installer install them and your selector / manager select them
Jan 31 06:43:58 <egaudet> so does the same standard apply for svc?  /media/cryptofs/svc or /media/cryptofs/apps/svc
Jan 31 06:44:16 <egaudet> apps is included in offline root right?
Jan 31 06:44:17 <destinal-home> egaudet: no standard on media, no
Jan 31 06:44:41 <destinal-home> egaudet: do we need one?
Jan 31 06:45:05 <egaudet> no I don't think so
Jan 31 06:45:06 <destinal-home> egaudet: ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps     yes
Jan 31 06:45:20 <destinal-home> I was just thinking have your usual org.awesomethemer.whatevertheme
Jan 31 06:45:22 <destinal-home> in apps
Jan 31 06:46:47 <destinal-home> not sure if you want to have an additional file it installs into a theme catalog directory also under apps, or if you just have the theme selector use ipkgservice
Jan 31 06:47:08 <destinal-home> the former is probably better
Jan 31 06:47:31 <egaudet> the thing is for the framework to work easily, I wanted a common never change path
Jan 31 06:47:48 <egaudet> the alternative is the framework has to read some file to find out the "active" theme
Jan 31 06:48:03 <destinal-home> oh, I see.. hmm
Jan 31 06:48:06 <egaudet> rather than just going to this known path that is really a sym link changing by a service on selection
Jan 31 06:48:57 <destinal-home> we could come up with a really simple fuse
Jan 31 06:49:14 <egaudet> WTH does the framework limit JS only to its own app dir?  :(
Jan 31 06:49:33 <destinal-home> egaudet: security?  dunno
Jan 31 06:50:09 <egaudet> I guess but what am I going to "read" that will break security
Jan 31 06:50:23 <destinal-home> secretpasswords.js
Jan 31 06:50:24 <destinal-home> :P
Jan 31 06:50:26 <egaudet> ** (LunaSysMgr:7187): WARNING **: isAllowedFileAccess: *** NOT ALLOWING FILE ACCESS ***   caller: /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.preware/index.html   target: /media/cryptofs/apps/org.webosinternals.thmapi/.theme/theme_config.json
Jan 31 06:50:56 <destinal-home> yeah, you used to be able to include files from other apps IIRC which could contain secrets
Jan 31 06:50:57 <Rick_work> yep.
Jan 31 06:51:05 <Rick_work> you have to do that from a binary.
Jan 31 06:51:22 <Rick_work> or use Jason's internalz  service.
Jan 31 06:51:25 <destinal-home> or maybe I misremember and it's always worked like that
Jan 31 06:51:35 <LoneStar99> hey boys a way to find an app is better than the app catalog and preware is here, soon to be released
Jan 31 06:51:39 <Rick_work> it's always worked like that
Jan 31 06:51:47 <egaudet> so I'll just go back to sym link on /var and put a json read in my service I guess
Jan 31 06:51:54 <Rick_work> yep
Jan 31 06:51:56 <egaudet> Rick_work, not always
Jan 31 06:52:03 <egaudet> you used to be able to read anything on the entire fs
Jan 31 06:52:08 <destinal-home> LoneStar99: advertising vaporware?
Jan 31 06:52:13 <egaudet> until I think 1.3.1
Jan 31 06:52:19 <Rick_work> the biggest lockdown was in 131  yeah
Jan 31 06:52:41 <LoneStar99> nope it is the thruth
Jan 31 06:53:03 <destinal-home> soon to be released is not released :P
Jan 31 06:53:12 <LoneStar99> desinal-home: no plastic, just a better system
Jan 31 06:53:45 <destinal-home> I've got this great app that will teleport you to the moon, soon to be released
Jan 31 06:55:27 <LoneStar99> you all think it is a joke?
Jan 31 06:55:40 <Kyusaku> hey I heard you like apps so I put an app in your app, it'd be released soon
Jan 31 06:56:04 <LoneStar99> nice
Jan 31 06:56:05 <egaudet> hype isn't worth anything
Jan 31 06:56:06 <destinal-home> LoneStar99: no, I'm just trying to figure out why you're hyping an unreleased something
Jan 31 06:56:14 <destinal-home> aka Duke Nukem Forever
Jan 31 06:56:25 <Kyusaku> no need to hype, proof is in pudding
Jan 31 06:56:27 <oil> cause then you're cool?
Jan 31 06:57:43 <destinal-home> LoneStar99: when it's out, announce it, people will check it out.
Jan 31 06:57:58 <oil> people enjoy screenshots too
Jan 31 06:58:03 <oil> you could put out some of those :)
Jan 31 06:58:15 <LoneStar99> ok screenshots
Jan 31 06:58:20 <Kyusaku> there have been several app catalog type apps in the past that have come and gone. Even if this supposed app is better, Preware still offers many other features that people will still use
Jan 31 06:58:57 <destinal-home> Or maybe if this one is open source we'll all join its development :)
Jan 31 06:59:40 * oil has a feeling its not opensource
Jan 31 07:00:03 <destinal-home> on the other hand, different tools can be better at different things, this is not a deathmatch
Jan 31 07:00:37 <destinal-home> I hear people use filecoaster still
Jan 31 07:00:46 <oil> lol
Jan 31 07:00:59 <LoneStar99> i have had some pints, but will never sell something that I do not have.
Jan 31 07:01:03 <destinal-home> and of course in all seriousness it can download things from a URL
Jan 31 07:01:08 <destinal-home> so it does have other stuff going
Jan 31 07:01:24 <oil> yeah
Jan 31 07:01:29 <Kyusaku> yeah that url downloading feature is still useful
Jan 31 07:02:59 * oil wonders if preware will ever make it to 1.0
Jan 31 07:03:14 <LoneStar99> a screenshot will be presented on an app
Jan 31 07:03:29 <oil> oh?
Jan 31 07:04:11 <xcomp> oil: as soon as Enlightenment actually makes it to 0.17 :)
Jan 31 07:04:13 <destinal-home> oil: I should be working on preware but this dual-boot idea has me by the scruff of my neck and won't let go
Jan 31 07:04:36 <oil> lol
Jan 31 07:04:48 <destinal-home> unfortunately I'm not that happy with the way you'd have to back up and restore partition images if it's not integrated with a doctor or similar tool
Jan 31 07:05:04 <xcomp> silly 0.16.999.0.63 version numbers
Jan 31 07:05:24 <destinal-home> since doctor likes to totally wipe out partition 3
Jan 31 07:05:42 <oil> i thought the meta-doc could do different things with the partitions
Jan 31 07:06:39 <destinal-home> yeah, so the question is, is this a super-meta-doctoring extension, or a standalone tool that redoes part of what the doctor does, or...
Jan 31 07:07:40 <LoneStar99> ok good night,  gonna just chill,
Jan 31 07:07:52 <oil> no screenshot?
Jan 31 07:08:01 <destinal-home> I don't really think what I'm looking for can be done with metadoc really, and having to use a metadoc'd doctor AND a bunch of custom commands is just awkard
Jan 31 07:08:16 <Kyusaku> haha you got oil intrigued
Jan 31 07:08:21 <LoneStar99> oil: u want one?
Jan 31 07:08:28 <oil> i thought you were going to post one
Jan 31 07:10:28 <egaudet> there's not even one single common area that Palm could let apps read from? there's got to be
Jan 31 07:11:03 <destinal-home> to really /media/internal?
Jan 31 07:11:41 <egaudet> nowhwere I can find outside of /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/<appid>/
Jan 31 07:11:58 <destinal-home> oh, used to be /media/internal worked.   guess it got locked down
Jan 31 07:12:57 <destinal-home> FUSE ftw
Jan 31 07:13:16 <egaudet> how can that help?
Jan 31 07:13:41 <destinal-home> you could make a custom fuse module that exposed a common directory but made it appear under /usr/palm/applications/*.
Jan 31 07:14:12 <destinal-home> err /m/c/a/u/p/a/*
Jan 31 07:14:32 <sryan> is it not possible for 3rd parties to make say hulu, digg, beatport, or reddit apps?
Jan 31 07:14:40 <sryan> for the pre
Jan 31 07:14:57 <Kyusaku> it's possible
Jan 31 07:14:58 <egaudet> hmm well actually /media/internal does work
Jan 31 07:15:01 <destinal-home> sryan: there may be trademark issues if it's not your name
Jan 31 07:15:04 <xcomp> sryan: hulu uses flash
Jan 31 07:15:27 <xcomp> so that will come with webos .14
Jan 31 07:15:28 <xcomp> *1.4
Jan 31 07:15:48 <destinal-home> xcomp: s/with/after/
Jan 31 07:16:01 <LoneStar99> what about the firefly song
Jan 31 07:16:12 <Kyusaku> there are plenty of third party apps for example that use things like Google Voice or Google Reader
Jan 31 07:16:15 <destinal-home> Palm has said 1.4 will be a requirement for flash, but that flash will be a download for 1.4, and integrated into webos in a version after that
Jan 31 07:16:28 <xcomp> destinal-home: precentral seemed to suggest that flash beta would show up in the app catalog as soon as 1.4 is released
Jan 31 07:16:31 <Kyusaku> it's only a matter if the APIs are public
Jan 31 07:16:43 <destinal-home> xcomp: precentral seems to suggest lots of wild ass guesses
Jan 31 07:16:58 <xcomp> true
Jan 31 07:17:01 <destinal-home> it could happen
Jan 31 07:17:43 <psykoz> Adobe keeps saying first half of 2010, so I would think beta at some point, but they still have till June to wrap things up
Jan 31 07:18:00 <firestrider> is it possible for 3rd parties to create apps for say hulu, reddit or beatport or do the companies have to create them
Jan 31 07:18:13 <destinal-home> they're basing it on their impression of CES though I think which was rather vague about it, only saying 1.4 would be a requirement to get it and it would be in the catalog
Jan 31 07:18:28 <Kyusaku> Adobe's desktop beta so far isn't all that it's cracked up to be
Jan 31 07:18:30 <psykoz> Well they said a beta would be available soon
Jan 31 07:18:45 <destinal-home> palm did use the word "soon"
Jan 31 07:18:55 <xcomp> Kyusaku: I can't even use the desktop beta. it has a bug that prevents it from working on amd athlons
Jan 31 07:19:00 <xcomp> believe it or not
Jan 31 07:19:26 <xcomp> all videos are pink like flamingoes
Jan 31 07:19:37 <destinal-home> lol
Jan 31 07:19:55 <Kyusaku> haha crazy
Jan 31 07:20:14 <firestrider> flash is only gpu accelerated for h.264 video right
Jan 31 07:20:36 <VincentLaw> I thought it accelerated vc1 too
Jan 31 07:20:38 <firestrider> I don't think flash games will be all that smooth on the pre
Jan 31 07:21:14 <Kyusaku> I don't think flash uses VC-1, does it?
Jan 31 07:21:36 <VincentLaw> whats the other codec it uses besides h264
Jan 31 07:21:40 <VincentLaw> the one that came before
Jan 31 07:21:51 <LoneStar99> yee ha
Jan 31 07:22:04 <Kyusaku> h.263? :P
Jan 31 07:23:08 <LoneStar99> 1988
Jan 31 07:23:09 <VincentLaw> VP6, that's it
Jan 31 07:23:10 <firestrider> the flash beta is worse then the stable release for me
Jan 31 07:23:14 <VincentLaw> I knew it was something with a V
Jan 31 07:23:15 <VincentLaw> lawl
Jan 31 07:23:25 <firestrider> in terms of cpu usage and crashes
Jan 31 07:23:30 <Kyusaku> and I thought 10.1 was suppose to be GPU accelerated across the board, not just HD content
Jan 31 07:23:39 <firestrider> I'm using an intel igp though
Jan 31 07:24:40 <Kyusaku> beta generally is worse than stable
Jan 31 07:24:56 <Kyusaku> that's why it's beta and not stable
Jan 31 07:24:59 <Kyusaku> :P
Jan 31 07:28:37 <LoneStar99> Kyusaku:  it is good
Jan 31 07:29:19 <destinal-home> Rick_work: so I think I can do the dual boot without the running and screaming
Jan 31 07:31:03 <tmzt> dual booting what?
Jan 31 07:31:14 <destinal-home> tmzt: different webos versions
Jan 31 07:31:24 <destinal-home> nothing as exciting as what you probably thought
Jan 31 07:31:35 <tmzt> hmm
Jan 31 07:31:37 <tmzt> chroot?
Jan 31 07:31:44 <egaudet> that is extremely exciting to me :)
Jan 31 07:31:59 <destinal-home> tmzt: nope, more LVM-based partitions
Jan 31 07:32:07 <destinal-home> chroot is too ugly for me
Jan 31 07:33:45 <destinal-home> downside is for now it requires pulling down several hundred megs of partition and pushing it back up post-doctor.  future iterations of the concept will be more elegant
Jan 31 07:34:03 <destinal-home> and I don't have the service or patch yet
Jan 31 07:34:10 <destinal-home> but the theory is good I think
Jan 31 07:39:50 <destinal-home> egaudet: the idea is a binary service that points the kernel symlink properly, changes an variable on disk (which is used by a modified /boot/etc/init to mount the lvm volumes root2 and var2 and log2 where they'd usually go) and then reboots.    the service would enumerate the available versions on start and return a json array when asked (which would be used by a mojo patch to the reboot button)   and the service would reboot
Jan 31 07:42:43 <egaudet> what about just changing bootie env?
Jan 31 07:43:22 <destinal-home> egaudet: well, I can't find it.  geist said it's in partition 1 but I haven't seen where the name of the uImage might be
Jan 31 07:43:31 <destinal-home> or any other kernel boot arg
Jan 31 07:43:57 <egaudet> have you been able to find anything that looks like a kernel cmd line?
Jan 31 07:45:25 <destinal-home> egaudet: negative
Jan 31 07:45:38 <egaudet> how are you reading the partitions?
Jan 31 07:46:15 <destinal-home> I dd'd them on the pre, scp'd them down and am hexdumping them
Jan 31 07:46:26 <destinal-home> well p1 mainly
Jan 31 07:48:50 <destinal-home> though there's probably hexdump on the pre
Jan 31 07:51:53 <destinal-home> egaudet: at any rate, even with environment, that only fixes the need to kernel symlink, the rest still would need done
Jan 31 07:55:14 <egaudet> yeah
Jan 31 07:56:31 <egaudet> In other news unionfs-fuse is my best friend :)
Jan 31 07:57:22 <destinal-home> egaudet: biggest thing I'm trying to figure out is the best ways to lay down the root and var partitions.   It would seem some kind of doctor based (or custom program that reads the doctor jar rootfs images) would make most sense.    currently I'm backing up root and var fs images to the pc, running doctor with the new primary version, then restoring those images to the new volume names
Jan 31 07:57:39 <destinal-home> since the doctor is very destructive and I can't keep anything on the device
Jan 31 07:58:20 <egaudet> yea a meta doctor laying down both sets of partitions would be the way to go IMO
Jan 31 07:58:47 <egaudet> what are the partitons on /dev
Jan 31 07:58:51 <destinal-home> some kind of new meta-hybrid-doc such as the world has never seen  muahaha
Jan 31 07:59:24 <destinal-home> mmcblk0  (  mmcblk0p1  mmcblk0p2  mmcblk0p3   )
Jan 31 07:59:39 <destinal-home> p3 is the LVM set
Jan 31 07:59:46 <destinal-home> p2 is /boot
Jan 31 07:59:58 <destinal-home> p1 is "NVRAM area"
Jan 31 08:00:14 * oil still hasn't seen any screenshot xD
Jan 31 08:00:20 <destinal-home> oil: lol
Jan 31 08:00:45 <egaudet> ya know one of these days I'm going to have to mess with some booting stuff
Jan 31 08:00:54 <destinal-home> oil: but that duke nukem forever port for the pre will be awesome
Jan 31 08:00:55 <egaudet> where is bootie is that on p1?
Jan 31 08:01:09 <oil> hey, at least there was screenshots of DNF :)
Jan 31 08:01:30 <destinal-home> egaudet: no
Jan 31 08:02:28 <destinal-home> egaudet:  p1 starts at 00080000 on the disk
Jan 31 08:02:53 <destinal-home> from 0 - 0x80000  on the disk, I'm assuming is bootie
Jan 31 08:03:36 <egaudet> have you dumped it?
Jan 31 08:03:37 <destinal-home> p1 is basically a very simple filesystem with bootie's images and tokens and such
Jan 31 08:04:13 <destinal-home> yeah I've dumped the beginning of the disk also
Jan 31 08:04:28 <egaudet> did you locate the bootie env?
Jan 31 08:04:33 <destinal-home> negative
Jan 31 08:05:14 <egaudet> does bootie ship with write abilities?
Jan 31 08:05:23 <egaudet> e.g. saveenv
Jan 31 08:05:31 <destinal-home> I don't believe it does
Jan 31 08:05:35 <egaudet> grr
Jan 31 08:05:54 <destinal-home> I surmise that in non-retail versions,  "tellbootie" would let us change env as well
Jan 31 08:06:05 <destinal-home> since the answer I got about doing it was "not in retail version"
Jan 31 08:06:18 <destinal-home> sigh
Jan 31 08:06:28 <egaudet> I don't want retail version :P
Jan 31 08:06:45 <egaudet> give us the engineering stuff :)
Jan 31 08:06:48 <destinal-home> yeah no kidding
Jan 31 08:08:32 <egaudet> back to themes for a moment, /var/svc/org.webosinternals.thmapi/.theme -> /media/cryptofs/apps/.themes/<sometheme>
Jan 31 08:08:54 <destinal-home> cool
Jan 31 08:08:59 <egaudet> with unionfs mount /var/svc/org.webosinternals.thmapi/ onto /media/internal/org.webosinternals.thmapi
Jan 31 08:09:23 <egaudet> so I can access /media/internal/org.webosinternals.thmapi/.theme from JS, they can't mess anything up from USB mode, and the entire universe is happy
Jan 31 08:09:24 <destinal-home> and you can now read stuff?
Jan 31 08:09:32 <destinal-home> excellent
Jan 31 08:10:29 <destinal-home> so we just have to make unionfs a dependency and ship it seperately?
Jan 31 08:10:52 <egaudet> yeah, and it's already in widk building happily
Jan 31 08:14:41 <destinal-home> egaudet: oh, wait
Jan 31 08:14:51 <destinal-home> egaudet: I think I just found env settings
Jan 31 08:15:08 <egaudet> yes yes yes
Jan 31 08:16:04 <destinal-home> 0x8100 on disk,  uh, making it  0x1000  in p1
Jan 31 08:16:20 <destinal-home> 00001000  63 68 65 63 6b 62 61 74  74 00 31 00 69 6e 73 74  |checkbatt.1.inst|
Jan 31 08:16:21 <destinal-home> 00001010  61 6c 6c 65 72 00 74 72  65 6e 63 68 63 6f 61 74  |aller.trenchcoat|
Jan 31 08:16:39 <destinal-home> which translates to   checkbatt=1   installer=trenchcoat
Jan 31 08:17:00 <destinal-home> looking here:  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bootie
Jan 31 08:17:05 <destinal-home> it's clear how those get used
Jan 31 08:17:59 <egaudet> 0x8100 on disk is not p1 if you said p0 was 0->0x80000
Jan 31 08:18:25 <destinal-home> missed a zero
Jan 31 08:18:27 <egaudet> k
Jan 31 08:18:28 <destinal-home> 0x81000
Jan 31 08:18:34 * destinal-home is tired
Jan 31 08:18:55 <geist> dont rely on it being at that offset though
Jan 31 08:19:00 <egaudet> once you hit 3 0's they all get fuzzy anyway :p
Jan 31 08:19:00 <geist> the TOC in the nvram says where it is
Jan 31 08:19:20 <destinal-home> geist:  ah
Jan 31 08:19:26 <destinal-home> geist:  "env"
Jan 31 08:19:28 <destinal-home> should have guessed
Jan 31 08:19:30 <geist> yep
Jan 31 08:20:16 <geist> also, in bootie in the printenv stuff, the 'T' means it's a temporary environment setting
Jan 31 08:20:24 <geist> ie, it is only for that instance and wont get saved
Jan 31 08:20:31 <geist> usually means it's the default hard coded value
Jan 31 08:20:33 <destinal-home> right, I figured since the only ones without T's were in the stock "env"
Jan 31 08:20:48 <geist> but if you put something in the flash env it'll override those
Jan 31 08:20:48 <destinal-home> so obviously from nvram area
Jan 31 08:21:15 <egaudet> destinal-home, write a touchscreen bootloader and chainload it
Jan 31 08:21:45 <destinal-home> egaudet: actually it looks like bootie makes that pretty easy
Jan 31 08:21:51 <egaudet> do the default T's overwrite the saved env?
Jan 31 08:22:10 <destinal-home> autoboot  seems to designate what command to run automatically.   default is "fsboot"
Jan 31 08:22:29 <destinal-home> but could easily be "chainboot"  it seems
Jan 31 08:23:05 <geist> no
Jan 31 08:23:20 <destinal-home> heh, ok, maybe too optimistic :)
Jan 31 08:23:25 <egaudet> now I'm just imagining a touch menu selector everytime my pre boots :P
Jan 31 08:23:32 <egaudet> was the no to my question?
Jan 31 08:23:34 <geist> it loads the env from flash then sets some temporary env hard coded
Jan 31 08:23:43 <geist> no to the T does not override the on flash env
Jan 31 08:23:56 <geist> basically there's a function call like env_set(blahblah, TEMP);
Jan 31 08:23:57 <destinal-home> ah I see that autoboot is not T
Jan 31 08:24:07 <destinal-home> nor in env
Jan 31 08:24:20 <egaudet> well even if it were, we can just put it in the flash env and it will stay
Jan 31 08:24:22 <geist> yeah, i think that's for historical reasons
Jan 31 08:24:37 <geist> right, flash env overrides everything
Jan 31 08:24:59 <LoneStar99> destinal-home: what is a good song
Jan 31 08:24:59 <egaudet> but no saveenv huh
Jan 31 08:25:07 <geist> yeah, that's not in release builds
Jan 31 08:25:31 <geist> actually i had intended to remove the env altogether but forgot to do it before ship
Jan 31 08:25:50 <egaudet> geist, just use all defaults then
Jan 31 08:25:57 <geist> yep
Jan 31 08:25:58 <destinal-home> geist: I'm impressed btw with how novacom / bootie / novacomd  on a running image all interoperate with the tools
Jan 31 08:26:17 <geist> that's what happens when a single person writes all of them :)
Jan 31 08:26:21 <egaudet> that's how I would have thought it would be done since changing it by the end user is not supported
Jan 31 08:26:57 <geist> the only reason autoboot tends to get set by trenchcoat is to override some development stuff that was coming out of the factory during earlier builds
Jan 31 08:27:04 <egaudet> geist, you can always just never take it out at this point :p
Jan 31 08:27:10 <geist> the factory folks were setting something else, and it had a tendency to stick
Jan 31 08:27:13 <geist> actually need to remove it
Jan 31 08:27:21 <geist> the autoboot being set stuff
Jan 31 08:27:37 <geist> installer = trenchcoat is just there to use up a spot in the .xml file that drives trenchcoat
Jan 31 08:27:45 <geist> kind of an example line. absolutely nothing reads it
Jan 31 08:29:15 <destinal-home> yeah, I was guessing it might be used since it would be useful to know whether something else installed it if you were debugging ..  (since most of us won't have anything else doing it but in engineering maybe?)
Jan 31 08:29:31 <geist> nah, it just takes up space
Jan 31 08:29:37 <destinal-home> but placeholder makes even more sense :)
Jan 31 08:29:52 <geist> i'm not sure any of the trenchcoat xml files stick around but it has a descriptor for how to set up nvram
Jan 31 08:30:08 <geist> and the env section is part of it, youc an set, clear, or override env settings in it
Jan 31 08:30:51 <geist> trenchcoat is the only tool in the system that is able to build an nvram section
Jan 31 08:31:02 <geist> tried to keep it all in one spot to avoid having a bunch of seperate code around
Jan 31 08:31:53 <geist> but dont get any ideas, you really dont want to screw around with trenchcoat
Jan 31 08:32:03 <destinal-home> I still love:
Jan 31 08:32:04 <destinal-home> trenchcoat - used for flashing (storage, not body parts)
Jan 31 08:32:37 <tmzt> geist: seems we are still missing a working kernel source for Pixi
Jan 31 08:32:38 <geist> for a while we had a cartoon placeholder logo of some guy looking away from the screen with his trenchcoat opened
Jan 31 08:32:42 <destinal-home> lmao
Jan 31 08:32:56 <geist> tmzt: yeah, i know. i think someoen is working on it
Jan 31 08:33:10 <geist> but our open source guys are not the same engineers that do it. and they're all confused about git right now or something
Jan 31 08:33:16 <geist> i'll ping em again on monday
Jan 31 08:33:29 <tmzt> autoboot?
Jan 31 08:33:33 <jacques> lol
Jan 31 08:33:53 <destinal-home> tmzt: it's the command bootie runs if you're not talking to it
Jan 31 08:34:17 <jacques> this is truly fascinating discussion, but I need to be up relatively early tomorrow :-(
Jan 31 08:34:19 <destinal-home> err a variable that defines which command
Jan 31 08:34:22 <geist> yeah, you can disable autobooting by setting it to ""
Jan 31 08:34:34 <geist> basically it just runs it as a script. pretty much just like uboot
Jan 31 08:34:54 <geist> autoboot "do this; and that; blahblah; fsboot" would work too
Jan 31 08:35:30 <tmzt> geist: sorry to bug you then
Jan 31 08:36:05 <tmzt> we are working on a universal early boot console and want to know if it will work the same on 7x27/30
Jan 31 08:36:05 <destinal-home> geist: it looks like bootie is a lot more flexible than what you'd strictly need, but then again, needs change ..
Jan 31 08:36:52 <tmzt> but there seems to be nothing from qct for real hardware
Jan 31 08:36:53 <egaudet> so does bootie have hush parser like uboot
Jan 31 08:36:59 <geist> well, it has some additional flexibility because it's used in the factory for diagnostics
Jan 31 08:37:06 <tmzt> since only Pixi/Plus have seemed to ship
Jan 31 08:37:21 <geist> basically we have a windows box that over novacom is running a bunch of hardware commands on a full diagnostics version of bootie
Jan 31 08:37:44 <geist> there is quite a bit of code in there that you aren't seeing quite yet
Jan 31 08:37:58 <destinal-home> geist: can you point the console at the OMAP's usb serial port stuff as opposed to the hardware pins?
Jan 31 08:38:00 <geist> there's a little bit of a programming language kind of like bash, and variable substitution
Jan 31 08:38:25 <geist> and if you run a script other than opening a terminal (i think it's run mem:// or something) it'll run it in a seperate thread
Jan 31 08:38:32 <geist> so multiple scripts can be running simultaneously
Jan 31 08:38:49 <geist> destinal-home: yes
Jan 31 08:39:03 <egaudet> threads in bootie really
Jan 31 08:39:05 <geist> though i suspect we turned it off on release. usually you hold 's' when booting
Jan 31 08:39:21 <geist> egaudet: oh yes, bootie is a fully preemptive kernel
Jan 31 08:39:22 <egaudet> cool
Jan 31 08:39:31 <destinal-home> geist: actually that sounds familiar, I think that works
Jan 31 08:39:38 <geist> it's already running 4 or 5 threads sitting there
Jan 31 08:40:06 <geist> it's almost verbatim based on my lk embedded kernel
Jan 31 08:40:07 <destinal-home> geist: or maybe it was just console to the screen I'm thinking of
Jan 31 08:40:15 <geist> http://git.newos.org/?p=lk.git;a=summary
Jan 31 08:40:39 <geist> the kernel stuff is virtually identical
Jan 31 08:40:57 <tmzt> destinal-home: those pins are hardware arent they? maybe you can write the mux regs
Jan 31 08:41:08 <tmzt> gesit: you just like writing os's?
Jan 31 08:41:11 <geist> tmzt: you have to set up the twl4030 to mux it
Jan 31 08:41:13 <geist> tmzt: yep!
Jan 31 08:41:19 <tmzt> hmm
Jan 31 08:41:22 <geist> i'm an os guy, been writing oses all my life
Jan 31 08:41:28 <geist> i had a little multithreaded kernel for iboot as well
Jan 31 08:41:29 <tmzt> which is i2c?
Jan 31 08:41:36 <geist> though nothing as sophisticated as bootie
Jan 31 08:41:42 <tmzt> lk is yours?
Jan 31 08:41:45 <geist> yep
Jan 31 08:41:53 <tmzt> Google is using it
Jan 31 08:41:56 <tmzt> I think
Jan 31 08:41:57 <geist> yep
Jan 31 08:42:03 <tmzt> on droid maybe
Jan 31 08:42:07 <geist> android is going to build their reference bootloader from it
Jan 31 08:42:12 <destinal-home> cool
Jan 31 08:42:16 <tmzt> nice
Jan 31 08:42:23 <tmzt> we need it on msm7x0x
Jan 31 08:42:28 <tmzt> so we can boot nand
Jan 31 08:42:37 <geist> if you look in the lk code it already has a port to msm7k
Jan 31 08:42:39 <tmzt> already works on nonA
Jan 31 08:42:45 <geist> that was pushed back by android
Jan 31 08:42:48 <tmzt> ah cool
Jan 31 08:42:52 <tmzt> mtd driver?
Jan 31 08:42:57 <geist> i think so
Jan 31 08:43:13 <tmzt> thanks man I don't think their tree has it though
Jan 31 08:43:17 <tmzt> or we missed it
Jan 31 08:43:21 <geist> probably
Jan 31 08:43:29 <geist> i think they put that on hold for now
Jan 31 08:43:40 <tmzt> I like the usersimplicity of Qi though
Jan 31 08:43:43 <geist> for the most part since they dont actually make devices themselves the OEMs usually want their own bootloader
Jan 31 08:43:46 <tmzt> but it might be too basic
Jan 31 08:43:50 <tmzt> yep
Jan 31 08:43:54 <tmzt> HTC has their own
Jan 31 08:43:57 <geist> right
Jan 31 08:44:00 <tmzt> hboot for android
Jan 31 08:44:09 <geist> swetland says it's terrible, but it works
Jan 31 08:44:10 <tmzt> Palm is OEM for Pixi?
Jan 31 08:44:16 <destinal-home> you'd think there would be something more standard
Jan 31 08:44:18 <geist> Pixi is our device
Jan 31 08:44:24 <geist> we design and make all our own devices
Jan 31 08:44:32 <tmzt> yep, I know somebody who reverses every htc bootloader
Jan 31 08:44:37 <tmzt> she's pretty good
Jan 31 08:44:47 <tmzt> (understatement)
Jan 31 08:44:48 <geist> bootie runs exactly the same on pixi as pre
Jan 31 08:44:54 <geist> it's just a different port
Jan 31 08:45:05 <tmzt> you have a binary/gdb debugger in it?
Jan 31 08:45:07 <bsneed> man, its kind of hard to get going on native development if you're not on linux. :/
Jan 31 08:45:24 <tmzt> remote debugger
Jan 31 08:45:25 <geist> tmzt: not too much. i'm mostly a printf guy, and if we need more we have lauterbachs
Jan 31 08:45:34 <tmzt> which is?
Jan 31 08:45:40 <tmzt> internal?
Jan 31 08:45:40 <geist> jtag box
Jan 31 08:45:42 <destinal-home> bsneed: that's why virtualbox and ubuntu server are so handy
Jan 31 08:45:44 <tmzt> ah
Jan 31 08:45:59 <geist> but i do almost all of my work exclusively via uart and printfs
Jan 31 08:46:00 <tmzt> we don't tear apart our devices
Jan 31 08:46:04 <bsneed> yeah, i think i'm gonna have to go that route
Jan 31 08:46:04 <tmzt> except with haret
Jan 31 08:46:24 <bsneed> was trying to cross-compile stuff but there's always 'one more thing'.
Jan 31 08:46:43 <geist> i'd like to get bootie open sourced, but there's been some push back for that
Jan 31 08:46:44 <tmzt> you can do init of hardware remotely
Jan 31 08:46:49 <geist> so *shrug*
Jan 31 08:46:50 <tmzt> even testing things like qdsp
Jan 31 08:46:59 <tmzt> (still in msm mode sorry)
Jan 31 08:46:59 <destinal-home> geist: OMAP3 has  to be the first system I've seen with USB JTAG (not that I get out much)
Jan 31 08:47:50 <destinal-home> of course that means you'd have to not be using USB for something else at the same time I suppose
Jan 31 08:48:17 <geist> yeah, that's the annoying part of pre and pixi. once it hits form factor you basically need a tech to bring out the uart to do any real debugging on it
Jan 31 08:48:27 <geist> pre you can always mux the usb lines as serial, but then you cant do usb
Jan 31 08:48:34 <tmzt> hmm, why?
Jan 31 08:48:43 <geist> because it's only one set of lines
Jan 31 08:48:47 <geist> either serial or usb
Jan 31 08:48:56 <tmzt> Nexus One switches to uart when no vbus is present
Jan 31 08:49:00 <tmzt> according to swetland
Jan 31 08:49:02 <geist> pixi has no such feature
Jan 31 08:49:10 <tmzt> yep, no microp
Jan 31 08:49:14 <tmzt> and no xceiver
Jan 31 08:49:20 <geist> exactly
Jan 31 08:49:22 <tmzt> except twl which kuxes
Jan 31 08:49:24 <tmzt> muxes
Jan 31 08:49:29 <geist> the 7227 the phy is built into the chip, so you can't mux it
Jan 31 08:49:35 <geist> twl4030 has a mux but it's either or
Jan 31 08:49:42 <tmzt> yeah
Jan 31 08:49:47 <geist> and since we're using standard usb connectors, we can't cram more pins i there
Jan 31 08:50:02 <tmzt> maybe fiq debugger could be reworked to do usb debugging protocol?
Jan 31 08:50:11 <geist> it hasn't been much of a problem
Jan 31 08:50:15 <tmzt> which is basically a single interrupt endpoint
Jan 31 08:50:22 <geist> sure, but that's pretty much the same thing as serial
Jan 31 08:50:32 <tmzt> ah right
Jan 31 08:50:38 <geist> point is half the time we want to debug a form factor unit we're doing something where we need usb alive and working properly
Jan 31 08:50:44 <tmzt> so you can't do the interesting stuff you need over usb
Jan 31 08:50:48 <geist> right
Jan 31 08:50:49 <tmzt> at the same time
Jan 31 08:51:00 <tmzt> I see
Jan 31 08:51:05 <tmzt> usb ip over wifi?
Jan 31 08:51:05 <geist> any higher level debugging we just use novaterm
Jan 31 08:51:12 <tmzt> not for pixi though
Jan 31 08:51:16 <tmzt> and not practical
Jan 31 08:51:17 <destinal-home> geist: it's a shame that palm hasn't done more open sourcing of internally developed stuff (or basically not open when not required by license I think)
Jan 31 08:51:31 <geist> well, for the most part we're just too busy for most of it
Jan 31 08:51:32 <tmzt> destinal-home: in what case?
Jan 31 08:51:45 <tmzt> webos itself is a differentiator
Jan 31 08:51:48 <geist> but unless there's a big reason to the general pushback is 'why?'
Jan 31 08:51:49 <tmzt> that can't change
Jan 31 08:52:04 <geist> but i would have liked to have gotten bootie and novacom/novacomd open sourced
Jan 31 08:52:10 <destinal-home> tmzt: well there's stuff they can release that wouldn't put differentiation at risk
Jan 31 08:52:12 <tmzt> things like plugins
Jan 31 08:52:16 <geist> and maybe in the future we will, bt really there's a lot of other work to do
Jan 31 08:52:17 <tmzt> or growing a compositor
Jan 31 08:52:28 <tmzt> destinal-home: like?
Jan 31 08:52:48 <tmzt> geist: why not support usb debugging?
Jan 31 08:52:51 <tmzt> ip
Jan 31 08:52:52 <tmzt> not usb
Jan 31 08:52:57 <geist> *shrug*
Jan 31 08:52:57 <tmzt> with usbdevfs
Jan 31 08:52:59 <geist> hasn't come up
Jan 31 08:53:12 <destinal-home> tmzt: stuff we could use to make browser plugins and hid plugins, and .. well, bootie (unless you think that's a risk)  :)
Jan 31 08:53:16 <tmzt> ah, by the way, like the usbdevfs approach
Jan 31 08:53:24 <geist> debugging at that level isn't something we find ourselves doing much
Jan 31 08:53:24 <destinal-home> but I totally understand the time constraints
Jan 31 08:53:28 <tmzt> Google wrote a whole bunch of kernel passthrough stuff
Jan 31 08:53:33 <geist> generally speaking the system is up and stable or we're on a dev board
Jan 31 08:53:46 <geist> if we have prodction form factor devices dieing a lot then we have problems
Jan 31 08:53:59 <LoneStar99> google sucks
Jan 31 08:54:00 <geist> also we have klog which catches most of em
Jan 31 08:54:03 <tmzt> but Windows is so broken they need fifty products
Jan 31 08:54:08 <tmzt> product ids
Jan 31 08:54:25 <tmzt> yeah, you use upstream stuff for logging?
Jan 31 08:54:37 <geist> what do you mean upstream stuff?
Jan 31 08:54:49 <LoneStar99> google is ms today, but worse
Jan 31 08:54:49 <tmzt> well, not sutom
Jan 31 08:54:51 <tmzt> custom
Jan 31 08:54:57 <tmzt> typing badly tonight
Jan 31 08:55:09 <tmzt> LoneStar99: I mean Android team
Jan 31 08:55:10 <geist> klog is something i hacked that serves our purpose pretty well
Jan 31 08:55:28 <tmzt> hmm
Jan 31 08:55:36 <geist> basically it keeps an out of band circular buffer, actually a series of them, that sticks across reboots
Jan 31 08:55:40 <tmzt> can you get logs from radio pushed to it
Jan 31 08:55:48 <tmzt> I think android just does their ril
Jan 31 08:55:50 <geist> so that if the kernel oopses the next boot it picks it up and sends it
Jan 31 08:55:58 <tmzt> yep
Jan 31 08:55:59 <geist> no, it's strictly a kernel log
Jan 31 08:56:02 <geist> essentially printk
Jan 31 08:56:02 <tmzt> same concept
Jan 31 08:56:13 <geist> yeah, android has somethign similar
Jan 31 08:56:16 <LoneStar99> google wants to own the world, android is java right?
Jan 31 08:56:17 <tmzt> except they push userspace errors to kernel space and then to nand
Jan 31 08:56:20 <geist> i looked at it but it didn't do precisely what we wanted
Jan 31 08:56:27 <tmzt> takes about 1mb total
Jan 31 08:56:32 <tmzt> it's crazy verbose
Jan 31 08:56:44 <geist> the modem stuff tends to be completely seperate
Jan 31 08:56:51 <geist> since it's running on another cpu and everything, at least for pre
Jan 31 08:56:51 <destinal-home> geist: one wonders what kinds of bizarre logs you've gotten from people hacking their own kernel modules on these devices but still happen to be running rxdx  :P
Jan 31 08:56:59 <tmzt> well Pre it is
Jan 31 08:57:12 <geist> destinal-home: actually that came up, i think we have a filter to try to filter those out
Jan 31 08:57:15 <tmzt> like I said, more familiar with msm stuff from spending a year on them
Jan 31 08:57:21 <tmzt> so I think in that way
Jan 31 08:57:24 <geist> part of the md5sum stuff that checks what the user is running
Jan 31 08:57:34 <tmzt> they have a lot of shared ram bandwidth
Jan 31 08:57:39 <geist> rdxd i think tries to figure out what is custom and doesn't send logs for that
Jan 31 08:57:43 <geist> to keep the noise down
Jan 31 08:58:01 <tmzt> destinal-home: any binary modules as shipped?
Jan 31 08:58:19 <tmzt> even dspg and sgx kernel part are open?
Jan 31 08:58:51 <LoneStar99> google pushing a phone and a browser at the same time means, lets own everything
Jan 31 08:58:58 <destinal-home> tmzt: a few that are binary only.  the wifi chipset for one
Jan 31 08:59:11 <tmzt> the driver is?
Jan 31 08:59:16 <tmzt> not just firmware
Jan 31 08:59:21 <tmzt> oh right
Jan 31 08:59:27 <geist> yeah, i asked the wifi guys about it and they claim they customized it pretty hard
Jan 31 08:59:29 <tmzt> to kill tehthering on the business side
Jan 31 08:59:45 <geist> and they have a bunch of stuff they dont want to share with competitors
Jan 31 08:59:49 <tmzt> after the ibss tricks early on
Jan 31 08:59:59 <tmzt> and now they need to differentiate the traffic from it
Jan 31 09:00:03 <geist> and they're not open source people, so they care a lot less about that stuff
Jan 31 09:00:04 <destinal-home> tmzt: but, there's all this built in tethering support that can be called on the bus
Jan 31 09:00:31 <tmzt> yes but it pushes it through a seperate channel #777 02?? on cdma I think
Jan 31 09:00:52 <tmzt> or maybe they just misuse pap like vzw did early on
Jan 31 09:01:10 <tmzt> if somebody dumped prl
Jan 31 09:01:20 <destinal-home> hmm, I didn't think the mobilehotspot used that,  but I could be wrong
Jan 31 09:01:30 <destinal-home> I've just skimmed it
Jan 31 09:01:44 <tmzt> we know it only works for customers who pay for thethering right?
Jan 31 09:01:57 <tmzt> well, SN has MIP too
Jan 31 09:02:02 <destinal-home> tmzt: it checks for "verizon wireless" carrier string
Jan 31 09:02:05 <tmzt> so they could be using that
Jan 31 09:02:10 <tmzt> oh this is vzw?
Jan 31 09:02:21 <destinal-home> right, is for pre+
Jan 31 09:02:31 <tmzt> love the 512 ram
Jan 31 09:02:35 <LoneStar99> fuck google, droid, i build with Palm
Jan 31 09:02:40 <destinal-home> also there seem to be binary modules for "tisgxgfx" which I don't know if there's source for
Jan 31 09:02:47 <geist> LoneStar99: are you still goong on about it?
Jan 31 09:02:50 <tmzt> droid is similar
Jan 31 09:02:51 <tmzt> same soc
Jan 31 09:03:06 <tmzt> kernel modules?
Jan 31 09:03:18 <destinal-home> yup
Jan 31 09:03:37 <tmzt> do you know what device it exposes?
Jan 31 09:03:44 <tmzt> 3d is pretty recent
Jan 31 09:03:50 <destinal-home> tisgxgfx/bc_example.ko tisgxgfx/omaplfb.ko tisgxgfx/pvrsrvkm.ko
Jan 31 09:03:55 <tmzt> I was scared they were going omap2fb only
Jan 31 09:03:58 <destinal-home> bc_example ?
Jan 31 09:04:12 <tmzt> srv kern mod?
Jan 31 09:04:27 <tmzt> I think n900 has the same thing
Jan 31 09:05:31 <destinal-home> also  dspbridge/bridgedriver.ko  and drivers/misc/exmap.ko
Jan 31 09:05:41 <destinal-home> again don't know whether src exists
Jan 31 09:06:00 <tmzt> dspbridge is mostly documented
Jan 31 09:06:09 <tmzt> exact modules usually aren't
Jan 31 09:07:11 <destinal-home> tmzt: wow, droid IS omap3430, isn't it?
Jan 31 09:07:12 <geist> dspbridge is to talk to the dsp
Jan 31 09:07:20 <geist> yes, droid is basically the same guts
Jan 31 09:07:44 <geist> they're still SLC nand based, sintead of mmc flash
Jan 31 09:07:54 <tmzt> yep, why?
Jan 31 09:07:56 <geist> and they have a higher res oled screen
Jan 31 09:08:01 <destinal-home> and iphone3gs is pretty similar too IIRC, alsos a cortex-a8
Jan 31 09:08:05 <tmzt> droid is oled?
Jan 31 09:08:06 <geist> i dunno. that seems to be their decision for a lot of this
Jan 31 09:08:17 <geist> wait no. N1 is i think
Jan 31 09:08:23 <geist> droid is just higher res
Jan 31 09:08:30 <tmzt> hmm, droid is qscx080 or something baseband
Jan 31 09:08:40 <tmzt> yep nexus is amoled
Jan 31 09:08:45 <tmzt> droid I think is tft
Jan 31 09:09:11 <tmzt> HTC pushes everything out to microp now
Jan 31 09:09:18 <geist> android fones seems to take the strategy of putting a smaller SLC flash, using something like yaffs and having all the aux storage on a SD card
Jan 31 09:09:23 <destinal-home> tmzt: do you know if moto has released all their kernel sources?
Jan 31 09:09:26 <tmzt> basically all the hardware management
Jan 31 09:09:27 <geist> we're taking the apple strategy and having one big flash, mmc based
Jan 31 09:09:35 <tmzt> yeah, and Google released the rest
Jan 31 09:09:39 <tmzt> before the Droid shipped
Jan 31 09:10:03 <tmzt> even on Pixi? doesn't msm need it's own flash?
Jan 31 09:10:06 <tmzt> nand
Jan 31 09:10:10 <geist> it does
Jan 31 09:10:27 <geist> but i'm talking about from an apps processor point of view
Jan 31 09:10:32 <geist> modem architectures come and go
Jan 31 09:10:38 <tmzt> any reason why tony's kernel shouldn't work on Pre Plus?
Jan 31 09:10:42 <destinal-home> tmzt: so there's really no good reason we couldn't port android easily (minus baseband etc) except maybe if the kernel versions are far apart
Jan 31 09:10:42 <tmzt> yep
Jan 31 09:10:53 <tmzt> but snapdragon is pretty cool
Jan 31 09:10:56 <tmzt> you lose sgx
Jan 31 09:11:09 <LoneStar99> everyone should have a fair chance
Jan 31 09:11:09 <geist> yep. guess it's a good sign for us that essentially no one has bothered to port android to a pre
Jan 31 09:11:13 <tmzt> Android on Pre?
Jan 31 09:11:18 <tmzt> kernel isn't the issue
Jan 31 09:11:25 <tmzt> it's all the libhardware
Jan 31 09:11:30 <tmzt> and ril
Jan 31 09:11:43 <geist> sure, but you could get the framework running pretty easily
Jan 31 09:11:50 <geist> sure, getting the modem working is a disaster
Jan 31 09:11:53 <geist> but that's always the case
Jan 31 09:11:55 <LoneStar99> Waylon Jennings
Jan 31 09:12:01 <tmzt> geist: he, well mickey lauer has tried ffreesmartphone.org
Jan 31 09:12:09 <tmzt> they started on your binary protocol
Jan 31 09:12:13 <tmzt> (gsm)
Jan 31 09:12:15 <geist> oh woot
Jan 31 09:12:16 <destinal-home> geist: unless you make a hybrid system which you can't distribute
Jan 31 09:12:33 <tmzt> I'm more into ofono, simple c drivers
Jan 31 09:12:36 <geist> of course we couldn't
Jan 31 09:12:39 <tmzt> dbus activation
Jan 31 09:12:41 <geist> just you know, what the community does
Jan 31 09:12:54 <tmzt> ppp in userspace
Jan 31 09:13:02 <tmzt> from Holtmann who did bluez
Jan 31 09:13:11 <destinal-home> tmzt: so is the baseband on pre really that hard to talk to?
Jan 31 09:13:12 <tmzt> destinal-home: what system?
Jan 31 09:13:19 <tmzt> it's binary packets
Jan 31 09:13:22 <tmzt> not AT
Jan 31 09:13:55 <geist> since both ends of the pipe to the modem are proprietary, there's little need to make the protocol easy to use
Jan 31 09:14:00 <tmzt> played with Pre Plus a little today, the cards are awesome
Jan 31 09:14:10 <geist> it's not ciphered or anything to specifically make it hard, it's just a moving binary protocol
Jan 31 09:14:11 <destinal-home> tmzt: well if you wanted an android system on the pre you could reuse a lot of the palm stuff (again if you own a pre I assume you can run some of the libs and binaries without others)
Jan 31 09:14:13 <tmzt> but it's very hard to test without logging into a bunch of accounts
Jan 31 09:14:16 <destinal-home> but you couldn't copy it
Jan 31 09:14:19 <LoneStar99> What if google beat palm at phone what would we all do?
Jan 31 09:14:20 <bsneed> i bought one yesterday. (pre+ that is)
Jan 31 09:14:22 <tmzt> temp Palm profiles would be so win
Jan 31 09:14:34 <geist> LoneStar99: I dunno, i'd go find another job
Jan 31 09:14:40 <tmzt> you wouldn't
Jan 31 09:14:41 <geist> and the world would still go on
Jan 31 09:14:44 <tmzt> it would be crazy
Jan 31 09:15:00 <tmzt> Android rild is a pain, everything is binary over pipes
Jan 31 09:15:02 <tmzt> fifos
Jan 31 09:15:10 <bsneed> gave my iphone 3gs to my wife.
Jan 31 09:15:14 <destinal-home> tmzt: considering how much is dbus the fso guys could move on and do the rest of the stack and talk to palm binaries over dbus, but it wouldn't be free / open
Jan 31 09:15:20 <geist> the way i figure it android is just raising the bar and letting OEMs that wouldn't have otherwise made a phone make one
Jan 31 09:15:30 <tmzt> right
Jan 31 09:15:36 <tmzt> Apple will never license
Jan 31 09:15:41 <tmzt> we all know that
Jan 31 09:15:43 <geist> it kills winmo and older oses and helps the whole industry move forward
Jan 31 09:15:51 <geist> i dont see them as a strict competitor
Jan 31 09:15:55 <tmzt> Android becomes defacto #2 unless Nokia quickly gets a clue
Jan 31 09:15:56 <LoneStar99> I will dance backwarks, webos is gonna work
Jan 31 09:16:04 <geist> and that's all they need
Jan 31 09:16:13 <bsneed> crazy question..
Jan 31 09:16:13 <tmzt> winmo is ugly, some people like it for the customization
Jan 31 09:16:20 <geist> the more people use any smartphones the more google wins
Jan 31 09:16:22 <destinal-home> geist: well, palm is very much like apple in building their own OS and all the devices that rn it
Jan 31 09:16:23 <bsneed> why doesn't vz actually advertise the pre?
Jan 31 09:16:25 <destinal-home> run it
Jan 31 09:16:27 <geist> so if it's not them it's someone else
Jan 31 09:16:30 <destinal-home> but yeah, google's not competing there
Jan 31 09:16:34 <tmzt> I think Microsoft needs NT on arm today
Jan 31 09:16:39 <bsneed> i figure if we're talking about random stuff in here, its fair game.
Jan 31 09:16:47 <tmzt> not another ce iteration without a catalog
Jan 31 09:16:48 <geist> fine with them, they're just raising the bar and trying to get more smartphones browsing the web
Jan 31 09:17:10 <destinal-home> geist: and get all the data on where you are to sell you ads :)
Jan 31 09:17:12 <tmzt> bsneed: why doesn't tmobile have any n1s or vzw any tp2's
Jan 31 09:17:19 <tmzt> which is awesome as aphone
Jan 31 09:17:26 <geist> if everyone buys an iphone, they win. if everyone buys a pre, they win, if everyone buys an android phone, they win
Jan 31 09:17:30 <tmzt> Palm won't do a landscape device
Jan 31 09:17:33 <geist> they're just trying to get people off dumbphones
Jan 31 09:17:41 <LoneStar99> hey boy just relax, it will work
Jan 31 09:17:42 <tmzt> there are no dumphones
Jan 31 09:17:54 <tmzt> except moder blackberry's :)
Jan 31 09:18:24 <tmzt> and then LG touch and chocolate touch
Jan 31 09:18:26 <geist> if anything the real thing that unlocked the industry is apple's work on webkit
Jan 31 09:18:34 <geist> which they had to release due to licensing
Jan 31 09:18:36 <tmzt> keeping the single core amss alive for maybe another year
Jan 31 09:18:40 <LoneStar99> most of yous have something to pay the bills
Jan 31 09:18:49 <tmzt> yep, webkit is the real deal
Jan 31 09:18:55 <tmzt> and Chrome is going to be killer
Jan 31 09:19:02 <bsneed> tmzt; the obvious answer is tmobile doesn't sell n1's, yeah?
Jan 31 09:19:08 <tmzt> sad thing is you guys had the first netbook
Jan 31 09:19:12 <tmzt> and killed it
Jan 31 09:19:19 <tmzt> smartbook or whatever
Jan 31 09:19:23 <geist> it needed to be killed
Jan 31 09:19:38 <tmzt> why, I wanted to run debian on one
Jan 31 09:19:40 <tmzt> :)
Jan 31 09:19:46 <tmzt> oh well
Jan 31 09:19:46 <destinal-home> geist: well, the thing is, you guys with integrating webkit and v8 have turned another corner and had to release it too due to licensing
Jan 31 09:19:48 <geist> fine, but that doesn't mean it didn't need to be killed
Jan 31 09:19:57 <tmzt> okay
Jan 31 09:20:07 <geist> right
Jan 31 09:20:08 <tmzt> the apps where going to eat into api mindshare
Jan 31 09:20:17 <tmzt> but PDC was broken for years before that
Jan 31 09:20:20 <tmzt> split with WM
Jan 31 09:20:31 <geist> beats me, i didn't do palmos
Jan 31 09:20:39 <tmzt> it wasn't palmos
Jan 31 09:20:42 <tmzt> though
Jan 31 09:20:47 <geist> i didn't do anything earlier than webos
Jan 31 09:20:54 <tmzt> okay
Jan 31 09:20:58 <geist> i was at apple then, and then danger before that
Jan 31 09:21:06 <tmzt> right
Jan 31 09:21:25 <destinal-home> was webos the netbook thing, was the netbook thing webos?  or that other Wx or whatever it's called.. and how much got reused, I wonder
Jan 31 09:21:29 <tmzt> danger/rim model no longer makes sense due to outages, though always synced is cool
Jan 31 09:21:36 <geist> destinal-home: almost zero
Jan 31 09:21:36 <tmzt> just my opinion
Jan 31 09:21:50 <geist> the foleo stuff got almost completely thrown out the window
Jan 31 09:22:06 <destinal-home> there's an image
Jan 31 09:22:16 <tmzt> destinal-home: Wx? Foleo was a custom linux distrobution with something built on directfb or similar
Jan 31 09:22:23 <geist> right
Jan 31 09:22:25 <tmzt> in some ways similar to small parts of luna
Jan 31 09:22:25 <destinal-home> foleos crashing to street and smashing to bits
Jan 31 09:22:36 <tmzt> love how Apple copied your menus from it :)
Jan 31 09:22:50 <geist> it was a custom software stack, basically nothing survived from that
Jan 31 09:23:04 <destinal-home> Well, the directfb linux thing had a two letter name that I think was Wx or .. something
Jan 31 09:23:17 <bsneed> i bet that was a painful expenditure. :S
Jan 31 09:23:18 <tmzt> not the software partners either
Jan 31 09:23:20 <destinal-home> I read it somewhere and forget now
Jan 31 09:23:24 <tmzt> forget their name
Jan 31 09:23:32 <tmzt> the docs to go
Jan 31 09:23:45 <tmzt> anyway, back on webos :)
Jan 31 09:23:53 <destinal-home> well docs to go is on webos too now, right?
Jan 31 09:23:58 <destinal-home> or same company
Jan 31 09:24:07 <tmzt> it's on everything
Jan 31 09:24:17 <bsneed> really pinning my hopes on the pdk being awesome honestly.
Jan 31 09:24:31 <bsneed> on the verge of giving up iphone work.
Jan 31 09:24:33 <tmzt> I don't know if it's improved much from Palm OS 4.0
Jan 31 09:24:43 <tmzt> everything must be waiting on a compositor
Jan 31 09:25:02 <destinal-home> bsneed: I have a sinking feeling that PDK is just SDL like for games, but I want it to be more
Jan 31 09:25:03 <tmzt> (the last comment referring to docstogo)
Jan 31 09:25:30 <bsneed> destinal; i'm sure the initial release will just be SDL
Jan 31 09:25:39 <destinal-home> It would be nice if my NPAPI plugins could fit an officially supported mechanism
Jan 31 09:25:39 <bsneed> i meant more in that they take it beyond that.
Jan 31 09:25:57 <bsneed> ie: native widgets, a real dev environment, etc.
Jan 31 09:26:19 <destinal-home> bsneed: my money is on 2.0 opening all the other doors
Jan 31 09:26:30 <destinal-home> and it being like 6-8 months out
Jan 31 09:26:46 <tmzt> destinal-home: have you tried the WHATWG stuff?
Jan 31 09:26:57 <tmzt> is it possible to build luna plugins yet?
Jan 31 09:27:10 <destinal-home> tmzt: we did that in July!
Jan 31 09:27:17 <tmzt> nah
Jan 31 09:27:18 <bsneed> destinal; maybe.  i emailed about a sneak peak, so hopefully i can build some of it out before then.
Jan 31 09:27:21 <tmzt> not npapi
Jan 31 09:27:35 <tmzt> luna, like webkit itself is
Jan 31 09:27:43 <bsneed> not having to go through this mess with getting the tools going would be a huge time saver.
Jan 31 09:28:14 <tmzt> geist: what is it like starting over without the Palm catalog?
Jan 31 09:28:19 <destinal-home> tmzt: oh, hmm.. well, I haven't checked to see if webkit style plugins are supported but I don't think they give you much, do they?
Jan 31 09:28:23 <tmzt> except through emulation
Jan 31 09:28:40 * geist shrugs
Jan 31 09:28:44 <tmzt> destinal-home: I mean the type of plugin .so and abi webkit itself is
Jan 31 09:28:46 <geist> again, i was not involved in palm
Jan 31 09:28:50 <tmzt> a true
Jan 31 09:28:54 <geist> all the products i've ever worked on have started off from scratch
Jan 31 09:28:58 <geist> danger, iphone
Jan 31 09:29:07 <destinal-home> tmzt: webkit is hard linked into LunaSysMgr
Jan 31 09:29:09 <tmzt> danger was very j2me though?
Jan 31 09:29:14 <geist> no
Jan 31 09:29:17 <destinal-home> err dynamically linked
Jan 31 09:29:20 <tmzt> right
Jan 31 09:29:21 <geist> android == danger2
Jan 31 09:29:25 <tmzt> what's the abi?
Jan 31 09:29:36 <tmzt> geist: yeah, I mean the games
Jan 31 09:29:43 <tmzt> guess not
Jan 31 09:29:53 <geist> what?
Jan 31 09:29:54 <bsneed> i think tmzt has 3-4 questions out at any one point in this conversation.  hehe
Jan 31 09:29:59 <destinal-home> tmzt: I think that it uses it like any standard library, I don't think there's any extensibility there
Jan 31 09:30:05 <tmzt> never had a danger device
Jan 31 09:30:05 <geist> yeah, exactly
Jan 31 09:30:14 <geist> danger was basically just like android
Jan 31 09:30:17 <geist> java based api, custom
Jan 31 09:30:37 <geist> android is done by essentially all ex danger folks, including the founder
Jan 31 09:30:38 <tmzt> I see
Jan 31 09:30:43 <tmzt> yeah
Jan 31 09:30:51 <geist> it's basically what danger would have eventually done if it had tried to license a product
Jan 31 09:30:56 <geist> platform i mean
Jan 31 09:31:07 <tmzt> they can't get native apps working because of all the lifecycle stuff
Jan 31 09:31:29 <destinal-home> tmzt: if only webkit were some kind of standard plugin format into luna, and we could arbitrarily make more plugins of the same type, that would be awesome, but I think this is more like libz etc
Jan 31 09:31:53 <destinal-home> fixed symbols statically defined
Jan 31 09:32:47 <destinal-home> I imagine flash is NPAPI
Jan 31 09:34:13 <destinal-home> wow, my power / sleep button just failed
Jan 31 09:34:23 <destinal-home> on pre
Jan 31 09:35:15 <destinal-home> I pushed it twice and the second push felt strange, went to click it again and it seems to be flat (lacking whatever spring / resistance was there just before)
Jan 31 09:37:29 <bsneed> is that common?
Jan 31 09:37:45 <destinal-home> never heard of it before so I'm guessing not
Jan 31 09:39:35 <destinal-home> a couple of tries of pushing it very hard seems to still wake it up, but it sounds like time to take it in
Jan 31 09:40:24 <bsneed> semi-unrelated, but EFL/evas seems a little heavy
Jan 31 09:40:48 <destinal-home> bsneed: I'm really not convinced at all it's the way to go on the pre
Jan 31 09:40:58 <bsneed> dependencies out the wazoo
Jan 31 09:41:29 <bsneed> destinal; about evas in particular, or native development in general?
Jan 31 09:42:25 <destinal-home> bsneed: evas, but then I could be totally wrong.
Jan 31 09:42:38 <bsneed> the api is kind of nasty imo.
Jan 31 09:42:56 <bsneed> having used coregraphics on iphone and gdi+ in win32...
Jan 31 09:43:17 <destinal-home> bsneed: at least raster has been hanging out in the channel so it should be easy to submit comments :)
Jan 31 09:43:48 <bsneed> the only thing it has going for it that i can see is that it runs on top of SDL and does just about every kind of graphics op one could ever want.
Jan 31 09:44:01 <bsneed> granted the latter is kind of a big deal, but far from required.
Jan 31 09:44:45 <bsneed> destinal; the api is so old, there's no real hope of having it be any nicer than it is.
Jan 31 09:44:50 <bsneed> aside from wrapping it or something.
Jan 31 09:45:17 <destinal-home> what I know is apparently it's very fully featured graphics-wise and very optimized for performance on mobile devices
Jan 31 09:45:29 <destinal-home> but for the most part I think straight SDL will do what most people want
Jan 31 09:45:35 <destinal-home> for the pre specifically I mean
Jan 31 09:45:43 <bsneed> for games yeah
Jan 31 09:46:03 <bsneed> but sdl lacks any sort of widget stuff which is the gap that efl/evas fills isn't it?
Jan 31 09:46:14 <destinal-home> for apps, yeah, the widgets matter a lot
Jan 31 09:46:32 <destinal-home> I'm hoping palm does better integration with SDL and plugins and mojo
Jan 31 09:46:34 <destinal-home> hough
Jan 31 09:46:36 <destinal-home> though
Jan 31 09:46:38 <bsneed> i can't imagine having to rewrite the starbucks or zipcar apps in javascript.. :S
Jan 31 09:48:48 <destinal-home> bsneed: there's also always cairo + sdl and other ways of attacking the problem
Jan 31 09:48:53 <destinal-home> I haven't really compared the options
Jan 31 09:49:43 <bsneed> its kind of funny, but most of the widget libs that are linked from the SDL website are dead.
Jan 31 09:50:11 <destinal-home> probably since SDL hasn't found much of a niche outside games
Jan 31 09:51:05 <bsneed> probably.
Jan 31 09:51:09 <destinal-home> anyway it's absurdly late here, should sleep
Jan 31 09:51:12 <destinal-home> night all
Jan 31 09:51:15 <bsneed> see ya mang.
Jan 31 10:24:38 <hawiwo> hi, is it possible to change the pre-button (below the display) function? To switch on/of wifi with this button would be a great benefit.
Jan 31 10:54:34 <eieio> sup sup?
Jan 31 11:01:54 <eieio> that much, eh?
Jan 31 11:32:57 <raster> bsneed: the api is pretty decent - it's a standard c api. like gtk, glib, gstreamer and so on. its the same style and easy to read, understand and learn
Jan 31 13:51:44 <Abyssul> Can the pre play HD?
Jan 31 14:33:08 <LoneStar99> will give you boys access to the api if you all want it
Jan 31 14:36:44 <Nick212004> Anyone here able to assist me with mytether real quick?
Jan 31 14:39:10 <Nick212004> anyone?
Jan 31 14:40:34 <LoneStar99> it seems everyone is sleep
Jan 31 14:40:53 <Abyssul> Why use mytether?
Jan 31 14:41:03 <Nick212004> I need tethering for my palm pre
Jan 31 14:41:07 <Nick212004> can you guys assist?
Jan 31 14:41:17 <Abyssul> I use freetether/mobile hotspot
Jan 31 14:41:26 <Nick212004> I have sprint palm pre
Jan 31 14:41:46 <Abyssul> So?
Jan 31 14:41:54 <Abyssul> Works on sprint as well
Jan 31 14:42:02 <Nick212004> freetether does?
Jan 31 14:42:37 <Abyssul> Mix  of both but you can use mytether but waste of money
Jan 31 14:43:00 <Nick212004> I already got the paid version so i just need help installing it
Jan 31 14:43:16 <Nick212004> can u or lonestar help?
Jan 31 14:43:28 <Abyssul> What's the trouble?
Jan 31 14:43:55 <Nick212004> i ran the installer and it says "Installation done"but i do not see the app in the launcher
Jan 31 14:44:04 <Nick212004> I have tried it several of times
Jan 31 14:44:18 <Abyssul> Restart the  phone
Jan 31 14:44:31 <Nick212004> I did still no luck
Jan 31 14:44:55 <Abyssul> Check the mytether forums for any info
Jan 31 14:45:03 <Abyssul> Might have a clue there
Jan 31 14:45:14 <Nick212004> I dont have access to the donor forums i got the paid version somewhere else
Jan 31 14:45:21 <Nick212004> is freetether any good?
Jan 31 14:46:12 <Abyssul> Freetether/mobile hotspot work together to provide tethering
Jan 31 14:46:31 <Nick212004> can u help me get freetehter on my sprint palm pre?
Jan 31 14:46:34 <Abyssul> Freetether enables ip forwarding then hotspot does the rest
Jan 31 14:46:52 <Abyssul> Search the precentral forums  plenty of guides
Jan 31 14:47:02 <Nick212004> i cant find link to download
Jan 31 14:47:04 <Abyssul> It was even a article on the front page
Jan 31 14:47:42 <Nick212004> im searching but no luck
Jan 31 14:48:01 <Nick212004> this? http://www.precentral.net/verizon-mobile-hotspot-app-working-sprint-devices
Jan 31 14:49:13 <Abyssul> Yep
Jan 31 14:49:18 <Abyssul> Read that post
Jan 31 14:49:51 <Nick212004> download ipk and load into webos quick install?
Jan 31 14:51:31 <Nick212004> sweet now on pree
Jan 31 14:51:55 <Nick212004> now how do i operate it and turn the hotspot on?
Jan 31 14:53:39 <Nick212004> i turned ip forwarding on now what?
Jan 31 15:02:03 <Abyssul> O.o
Jan 31 15:02:12 <Abyssul> Guess he found out
Jan 31 15:02:45 <PuffTheMagic> i just took a huge dump
Jan 31 15:02:57 <Abyssul> ...
Jan 31 15:03:05 * PuffTheMagic wants to do a happy shit dance like a dog does
Jan 31 15:03:29 <Abyssul> We need a   wiki page for quotes in this channel
Jan 31 15:04:34 <PuffTheMagic> im glad you find my comment memorable
Jan 31 15:05:40 <bpadalino> was it a type 3?
Jan 31 15:07:53 <PuffTheMagic> it was one of those, you had too much fiber the day before shits that you think is gonna be a pretty quick BM but then brings lots of pain and endless poops
Jan 31 15:08:35 <bpadalino> for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Stool_Scale
Jan 31 15:09:12 <PuffTheMagic> i dont think it fits on that scale
Jan 31 15:09:42 <PuffTheMagic> it was more like #2 but soft enough to melt on impact with water
Jan 31 15:10:19 <bpadalino> good to know
Jan 31 15:10:30 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Jan 31 15:10:45 <PuffTheMagic> bpadalino: hows ra-cha-cha
Jan 31 15:10:57 <bpadalino> cold .. got down to -2 last night
Jan 31 15:11:08 <PuffTheMagic> yeah its cold as hell here too
Jan 31 15:14:29 <PuffTheMagic> i wonder when rwhitby is gonna grace us his return
Jan 31 15:15:52 <chezbi> ur conversations are hilarious and disturbing at the same time....
Jan 31 15:17:19 <PuffTheMagic> chezbi: cognitive dissonance is my goal
Jan 31 15:19:07 <chezbi> Puff: haha ok
Jan 31 15:19:59 <en0x> any idea http://img111.yfrog.com/img111/3825/o6f.png wtf?!
Jan 31 15:20:52 <bpadalino> math is hard :(
Jan 31 15:21:17 <en0x> but still i got 4gb free
Jan 31 15:37:24 <bsdbandit> is it possible to run andriod on the palm pre ?
Jan 31 15:39:55 <jettero> I'm not personally aware of anyone trying...
Jan 31 15:40:01 <bsdbandit> oh ok
Jan 31 15:40:03 <jettero> but it seems possible to me
Jan 31 15:40:28 <jettero> minus hardware compatibility problems...
Jan 31 15:44:27 <sui> .oO(why should anyone run android on the pre?)
Jan 31 15:46:32 <jettero> why not?
Jan 31 15:46:37 <jettero> it's like running linux on your xbox
Jan 31 15:46:42 <jettero> you don't do it because it's useful
Jan 31 16:03:30 <LoneStar99> some of yous wanted a screenshot of "blackbird" search
Jan 31 16:03:35 <LoneStar99> anyone here?
Jan 31 16:07:26 <ShadeS> it's just past the crackadawn everyones still sleeping~
Jan 31 16:07:38 <ShadeS> some people are just going to sleep
Jan 31 16:07:46 <ShadeS> i'm trying to gtfu though
Jan 31 16:07:52 * ShadeS drinks m0ar coffee
Jan 31 16:09:15 <LoneStar99> lol
Jan 31 16:10:44 <ShadeS> nothing starts the morning lke a line of pink and a line of green
Jan 31 16:11:32 <Guest64492> Is there anyone here that can answer some general doom/pre/pixi questions
Jan 31 16:12:51 <Guest64492> Am I using this correctly?  Do I need to click a name on the right?
Jan 31 16:13:41 <ShadeS> what
Jan 31 16:13:46 <ShadeS> you're typing into the channel just fine
Jan 31 16:13:48 <ShadeS> askyour question
Jan 31 16:13:56 <ShadeS> you asked 3 already
Jan 31 16:14:01 <ShadeS> oh no that's the limit
Jan 31 16:14:03 <LoneStar99> lol
Jan 31 16:14:04 <ShadeS> ;p
Jan 31 16:14:18 <ShadeS> "are you really the dali lama?" "REALLY?"
Jan 31 16:14:23 <ShadeS> "ORLY!?!?":
Jan 31 16:14:27 <ShadeS> lol.
Jan 31 16:18:12 <Guest64492> Sorry, I haven't used this before.  I was trying to run doom on a pixi (bought just for form factor) from terminal, all looked good then, "Error: Could not initialize SDL: Unable to open /dev/fb1" Will this be supported on the pixi or should I just get a pre, or save my upgrade for the next webos device
Jan 31 16:19:10 <bpadalino> the pixi doesn't support the 3d games right now .. probably won't in the future (but i am not palm)
Jan 31 16:19:21 <bpadalino> if you want gaming, the pre is the way to go
Jan 31 16:19:22 <Abyssul> Agreed
Jan 31 16:23:28 <Guest64492> I would just prefer to not have a slider, has anyone switched from pixi to pre (wondering about the keyboard differences)? Does anyone think there will be a new webos device soon
Jan 31 16:23:35 <Nick212004> Who here uses Freetether? I just have one question about it
Jan 31 16:24:14 <Nick212004> I have it on my Pre and my laptop picks it up and connects, but then it says "Local Access Only" how do I fix this?
Jan 31 16:24:19 <bpadalino> Guest64492: i have never used a pixi but own a pre .. i've heard the pixi feels better in the hand and more solid .. no idea about a new device ..
Jan 31 16:26:59 <Nick212004> Anyone?
Jan 31 16:30:02 <bpadalino> no idea, sorry
Jan 31 16:30:18 <Guest64492> bpadalino: Thanks, that was my overall impression of the feel when I compared them (Plus I switched from the Centro). I bought my pixi outright, I may use my upgrade and get the pre then possibly just switch back and forth.  You're overall pretty happy with the Pre though?  Pretty solid (cracking issues)?
Jan 31 16:32:06 <bpadalino> my pre has been very good .. no oreoing .. i have been careful with the usb door ..
Jan 31 16:32:16 <bpadalino> i put it in my pocket naked, and no cracks so far ..
Jan 31 16:32:27 <bpadalino> though i see some slight cracking around the button area .. small fractures
Jan 31 16:35:00 <corq-FL> bpadalino: I'm not careful with the usb door and actually remove the rubber thing; I live for danger!
Jan 31 16:35:17 <bpadalino> danger will robinson!!
Jan 31 16:35:32 <Guest64492> Hmmm.. I don't exactly understand the oreoing, I tried reading up on it.  Slight fractures kind of scares me though.  I only run my pixi with a screen protector since release, no cracking, maybe because it's a little more compact and solid
Jan 31 16:35:56 <corq-FL> so far I've been very lucky, I'm actually more likely to drop the phone wrestling with the usb plug if I *don't* remove the rubber door ;-)
Jan 31 16:36:17 <bpadalino> Guest64492: the oreo is due to the mechanical mechanism holding the screen to the keyboard .. it can torque around and become loose in some cases
Jan 31 16:36:19 <Nick212004> With Freetether I have it on my Pre and my laptop picks it up and connects, but then it says "Local Access Only" how do I fix this?
Jan 31 16:40:15 <Guest64492> bpadalino: somehow that simple explanation explained it very well.  When you mentioned those little cracks, do you mean near the center button?
Jan 31 16:40:41 <bpadalino> Guest64492: yes - about 1mm on length, coming out from the center button ..
Jan 31 16:40:47 <bpadalino> i am keeping a close eye on them
Jan 31 16:40:57 <bpadalino> so if you got a pre plus - that would be alleviated
Jan 31 16:41:50 <PuffTheMagic> i should try making a new dialer app with Elementary
Jan 31 16:42:28 <PuffTheMagic> then i can start replacing webOS with E
Jan 31 16:43:24 <Guest64492> bpadalino:  I would be too, not worth taking the chance of trading it for a crappy refurb yet. I do like the pre plus for losing that button, but I'm on sprint and that would mean i'd need to switch carriers...
Jan 31 16:43:58 <PuffTheMagic> sprint will get new palms
Jan 31 16:44:06 <PuffTheMagic> there are new phones all the time
Jan 31 16:44:27 <bpadalino> yeah, sprint will get the plus' soon enough
Jan 31 16:44:42 <PuffTheMagic> or something else even better
Jan 31 16:45:24 <PuffTheMagic> i wonder when the gsm plus models will be out
Jan 31 16:46:48 <Guest64492> that's what I'm hoping for, I kind of want to save my upgrade in hope of that, but soon enough? my contract is up in march so i'm hoping by then
Jan 31 16:49:09 <bpadalino> PuffTheMagic: i'd guess in the spring time ..
Jan 31 16:49:22 <bpadalino> for gsm plus'
Jan 31 16:50:28 <Guest64492> PuffTheMagic: I don't know, I read this recently which made me wonder too. http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/23/palm-crafting-gsm-versions-of-the-pre-plus-and-pixi-plus/
Jan 31 16:51:15 <PuffTheMagic> you have to expect they have a handful of devices on the shelf waiting to be released
Jan 31 16:51:47 <PuffTheMagic> 4g Pre?
Jan 31 16:52:03 <zsoc> c40?
Jan 31 16:52:07 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: yo
Jan 31 16:52:13 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: i have this idea
Jan 31 16:52:14 <zsoc> yoyo
Jan 31 16:52:32 <zsoc> ...
Jan 31 16:52:38 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: lets make a new phone interface in elementary that runs in E
Jan 31 16:53:06 <Guest64492> PuffTheMagic: I'm sure palm has a lot up their sleeve, just have to wait for the carriers.
Jan 31 16:53:56 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: why?
Jan 31 16:54:13 <zsoc> and furthermore, how?
Jan 31 16:55:22 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: cause an oss interface would be sweet
Jan 31 16:55:58 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: E is a window manager / DE sorta like gnome so that replaces Luna
Jan 31 16:56:04 <PuffTheMagic> so we run that
Jan 31 16:56:06 <zsoc> except the ridiculous amount of closed source elements we can't mimic?
Jan 31 16:56:17 <zsoc> I know what e is :p
Jan 31 16:56:24 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: i think we know enogh bout the modem to make a dialer
Jan 31 16:56:46 <PuffTheMagic> and i bet there are many appps from E that can be used
Jan 31 16:57:40 <zsoc> not getting dragged into that. sounds like suicide
Jan 31 16:57:48 <zsoc> maybe if I quit my job
Jan 31 17:05:53 <LoneStar99> http://work.lonestarbeer.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/
Jan 31 17:06:40 <LoneStar99> that is a screen shot that peeps where asking about lastnight
Jan 31 17:07:04 <LoneStar99> search engine for the app catalog
Jan 31 17:09:54 <LoneStar99> goldslager was my buddy lastnight
Jan 31 17:20:30 <Nick212004> Does anyone here use FreeTether?
Jan 31 17:25:34 <Nick212004> With Freetether I have it on my Pre and my laptop picks it up and connects, but then it says "Local Access Only" how do I fix this? [11:37] == roxfan [dunno@56.130-246-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #webos-internals
Jan 31 17:35:15 <Abyssul> Hey
Jan 31 17:42:08 <sugardave> I need some schooling re: the various open source licenses
Jan 31 17:42:39 <sugardave> like, including someone's MIT-licensed package in my app...I just need to make THEIR source coe available/attributed, but not nece3ssarily mine?
Jan 31 17:46:58 * Abyssul bows  to !8
Jan 31 17:47:06 <Abyssul> Crap..
Jan 31 17:56:11 <sugardave> maybe I just don't understand...everything I read basically says "if you want to sell any of your code" don't use an open source license, then that (for some licenses) simply inlcuding libraries in your code force your code to be open source, thereby eliminating the "sell" chance...am I just THAT dense?
Jan 31 17:57:14 <bpadalino> that is not necessarily a correct statement .. just look at how much open source is on the pre, and how much we still don't have access to
Jan 31 17:57:27 <sugardave> bpadalino: right, which is why I am damn confused....
Jan 31 17:57:39 <bpadalino> all the different licenses have different terms ..
Jan 31 17:57:50 <bpadalino> generally MIT and BSD are the most permissible
Jan 31 17:58:19 <bpadalino> but if you really are serious about this, you should get a lawyer who understands this stuff and is very familiar with it ..
Jan 31 17:58:53 <ShadeS>  /j #hardware
Jan 31 17:59:37 <bpadalino> no thanks
Jan 31 17:59:45 <sugardave> bpadalino: yeah, lawyer...I just want to form a rule of thumb in my brain: "if I use a xxx licensed library I have to ...."
Jan 31 17:59:51 <sugardave> just so I can start looking at some things
Jan 31 18:00:24 <bpadalino> MIT and BSD are very permissive, LGPL is OK if you just link against it .. not sure about Apache or others .. there may be a wikipedia article on this stuff
Jan 31 18:00:48 <sugardave> there are a few...I can't seem to find the dummies version
Jan 31 18:01:27 <bpadalino> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_software_licenses
Jan 31 18:02:04 <sugardave> oh, missed that one...still not dumb enough :D
Jan 31 18:02:30 <bpadalino> but it's even color coded :(
Jan 31 18:02:39 <PuffTheMagic> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/category
Jan 31 18:03:29 <sugardave> bpadalino: yeah, I like the colors
Jan 31 18:03:58 <sugardave> PuffTheMagic: thanks, I'll add it to the stack
Jan 31 18:08:09 <rick-home> sugardave you want the absolute dummies version?
Jan 31 18:08:18 <sugardave> yes
Jan 31 18:08:19 <sugardave> yes I do
Jan 31 18:08:31 <rick-home> mit - give credit
Jan 31 18:08:42 <rick-home> lgpl - not even credit required.
Jan 31 18:09:01 <rick-home> gpl and bsd - post the source of your mods to the libraries...
Jan 31 18:09:21 <rick-home> gpl3 - depending on it may require that you post the source of the final product.
Jan 31 18:09:30 <rick-home> but in all cases you can sell what you make.
Jan 31 18:09:34 <sugardave> okay
Jan 31 18:09:45 <sugardave> perfect, mit or lgpl is probably what I will be looking at
Jan 31 18:09:47 <sugardave> thanks rick
Jan 31 18:10:10 <rick-home> use mit.  That's why all the webos-internals stuff is mit, so that palm can just USE it without issues.
Jan 31 18:10:25 <sugardave> nice, okay
Jan 31 18:10:35 <sugardave> this library I'm looking at is MIT
Jan 31 18:11:50 <sdodson> Why would there be issues? Palm clearly has GPL compliance down.
Jan 31 18:11:54 <FuMan_> TypeError: Cannot call method "split" of undefined
Jan 31 18:11:58 <FuMan_> is that bad O_o
Jan 31 18:12:06 <sugardave> FuMan_: maybe
Jan 31 18:12:39 <FuMan_> well, it makes Preware work a whole lot less
Jan 31 18:12:42 <FuMan_> ill tell you that much
Jan 31 18:12:59 <sugardave> that's probably bad, then
Jan 31 18:22:08 <lclarkjr> dBsooner: : Are you around
Jan 31 18:22:47 <FuMan_> yeah
Jan 31 18:22:50 <FuMan_> even after a restart
Jan 31 18:23:00 <FuMan_> i can't get preware to work now, thats pretty lame
Jan 31 18:23:19 <Abyssul> Reinstall it
Jan 31 18:25:52 <lclarkjr> Abyssul: :@maybe you can answer my question. after aup I am no longer seeing any of the pachs that I wrote and previously  avail in Preware in Preware now.
Jan 31 18:27:41 <Abyssul> I wouldn't know
Jan 31 18:27:56 <Abyssul> Are they installed though?
Jan 31 18:28:08 <lclarkjr> Abyssul: notification repeats, wrap pages, snooze duration,...
Jan 31 18:28:35 <lclarkjr> ok thxs I'll touch base with dbsooner later
Jan 31 18:28:43 <lclarkjr> yes
Jan 31 18:29:25 <lclarkjr> and already reinstalled package manager and preware
Jan 31 18:37:40 <lclarkjr> ah, I think I now see, aparently installed patchs now only show under installed and not in available list
Jan 31 18:38:13 <Abyssul> That's a preference
Jan 31 18:40:07 <lclarkjr> yep aparently at some point I changed the pref without realizing
Jan 31 18:40:24 <lclarkjr> hence my confusion
Jan 31 18:40:54 <egaudet> that is the default btw
Jan 31 18:41:38 <egaudet> on the migration to /media/cryptofs the preferences most likely all went back to default
Jan 31 18:45:18 <Hunter123> what's the easiest way to root the pre?
Jan 31 18:48:44 <tmzt> game app
Jan 31 18:48:53 <Hunter123> ?
Jan 31 18:48:58 <Rick_work> Hunter123  download the sdk.  done
Jan 31 18:49:03 <psykoz> plant it in the ground
Jan 31 18:49:06 <psykoz> and it will sprout
Jan 31 18:49:19 <Rick_work> Hunter123 you don't NEED to root the pre-it ships pre-rooted.
Jan 31 18:49:33 <Rick_work> what is it you want to do Hunter123 ???
Jan 31 18:49:58 <Hunter123> everything learn how to make apps themes
Jan 31 18:50:37 <egaudet> luna-platform.conf will take precedence over luna.conf it seems
Jan 31 18:50:47 <Rick_work> Hunter123  well,  those two things do not require rooting.  :)  to make apps, download the sdk.  To make themes, use themebuilder.  To make binary apps, download the wipk.
Jan 31 18:51:09 <Rick_work> Hunter123  but if you want to mess with your pre as a linux root login,  simply visit http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux  and follow the instructions.
Jan 31 18:51:25 <Hunter123> thanks
Jan 31 18:51:32 <Rick_work> but honestly Hunter123  all you do is download and install the sdk, and then use novaterm to log into the pre- it ships pre-rooted.
Jan 31 18:51:51 <Hunter123> ok
Jan 31 18:52:12 <Rick_work> Hunter123  almost everything we know is on that wiki.  And Hunter, if you find something on the wiki that's wrong, please fix it, that's how you pay it forward.
Jan 31 18:53:09 <Hunter123> I was also wondering about any chat-like apps available for the pre
Jan 31 18:54:09 <Rick_work> Hunter123  have you installed preware?
Jan 31 18:54:37 <Hunter123> yes but there's not many chat apps
Jan 31 18:54:39 <Rick_work> wirc in preware is a fullblown IRC client for the Pre.
Jan 31 18:54:48 <Rick_work> what chat platform do you want?
Jan 31 18:55:13 <Rick_work> we wrote wirc because we use IRC :)
Jan 31 18:55:42 <Rick_work> the messaging app in the pre does google talk.
Jan 31 18:56:58 <Hunter123> that's what I'm using
Jan 31 18:57:20 <Hunter123> I was hoping for something like mig33
Jan 31 19:00:54 <Rick_work> well,  have fun -- feel free to use wirc code to base your new app on.
Jan 31 19:01:01 <Rick_work> ((( I have no idea what mig33 is )))
Jan 31 19:02:33 <Hunter123> it's a chat room app that I've used for windowsmobile
Jan 31 19:03:33 <Rick_work> oh
Jan 31 19:03:38 <Rick_work> well, have fun.
Jan 31 19:03:56 <Hunter123> one more question
Jan 31 19:04:00 <Rick_work> what chat rooms do you use?
Jan 31 19:04:07 <Rick_work> sure, that's why we're here.
Jan 31 19:04:16 <Hunter123> what's the possibility of porting android to the pre
Jan 31 19:09:53 <Rick_work> zero
Jan 31 19:10:12 <Rick_work> well, ok, not zero,  10^-20 or so
Jan 31 19:10:28 <Rick_work> it would be a major effort, and you don't have a lot of the code and drivers you would need.
Jan 31 19:10:45 <Rick_work> ---  then the question arizes,  why in God's name would you want to?
Jan 31 19:11:14 <Rick_work> but basically, it would be comparable to the effor to port android to the iphone.  Seen any progress on that front lately?  there are a LOT more iphone hackers out there.
Jan 31 19:11:40 <Hunter123> the possibility of dual booting both android and webos
Jan 31 19:11:58 <Hunter123> and the palm pre is more open source
Jan 31 19:12:08 <Hunter123> it's less locked down
Jan 31 19:13:27 <Rick_work> Hunter123  it would be 'hard'
Jan 31 19:13:47 <Hunter123> but it's not impossible
Jan 31 19:13:49 <Rick_work> it has been asked of members of the core-palm-kernal-team.  they said "hard."
Jan 31 19:13:51 <Rick_work> nope.
Jan 31 19:14:21 <Hunter123> okay and alot of people have got a start on it already
Jan 31 19:14:32 <Rick_work> but assembling a team will be difficult.  Most of us rather LIKE webOS and have tried android and rejected it.  If you want an android fone, I suggest the HTC
Jan 31 19:14:44 <Rick_work> a lot of people?
Jan 31 19:15:01 <Hunter123> quite a bit even before it was released
Jan 31 19:16:07 <egaudet-wirc> and still nothing
Jan 31 19:16:25 <Hunter123> ...
Jan 31 19:17:24 <Rick_work> Hunter123  lots pre-release -- all speculation.  Once the sdk leaked, and we had an emulator, and we had phones, there have been NO posts on that front except "what ever happened to..."
Jan 31 19:17:42 <Rick_work> find me a post from anyone who said that progress has been made post 6/6/09
Jan 31 19:19:43 <tmzt> not comaprable to iPhone port
Jan 31 19:19:52 <tmzt> we already have a linux kernel
Jan 31 19:20:12 <tmzt> there can't be android on Pre untiil the baseband interface is reversed
Jan 31 19:20:18 <tmzt> the rest is pretty easy
Jan 31 19:20:54 <Rick_work> tmzt  yep, but the baseband guys are still stumped.
Jan 31 19:20:55 <tmzt> if you just want apps run the android stuff in game mode
Jan 31 19:21:18 <tmzt> and fixup android init so it can run in a chroot and still service zygote instances
Jan 31 19:21:21 <dcordes> is the webos phone api closed?
Jan 31 19:21:23 <Rick_work> THey're reversing the binary protocal, but it's sure not easy.  Last progress note I saw was two weeks ago.
Jan 31 19:21:38 <Rick_work> dcordes what is it you're asking?
Jan 31 19:22:05 <Rick_work> the binary comm protocal between the modem and the cpu is closed.  But the code to make calls and such is open.
Jan 31 19:22:16 <Rick_work> you just have to use calls to Palm's binary.
Jan 31 19:22:20 <dcordes> is the source code to the userspace program which handles the communication with the baseband available?
Jan 31 19:22:44 <Rick_work> the source code to the javascript of the phone is, the source code for the binary is not.
Jan 31 19:22:50 <Abyssul> I hope we get mic api in 1.4 sdk
Jan 31 19:22:55 <Rick_work> or they would have been done in about 2 minutes.
Jan 31 19:23:17 <Rick_work> Abyssul  we can neither confirm or deny....
Jan 31 19:23:25 <dcordes> so you can't see like AT commands?
Jan 31 19:23:42 <Abyssul> All I said we hope
Jan 31 19:23:44 <Abyssul> Was*
Jan 31 19:23:48 <Rick_work> dcordes  they have tapped the communications between the modem and the cpu. The pre does not use AT commands.
Jan 31 19:23:49 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: what type of mic api do you want
Jan 31 19:23:52 <Abyssul> I could use a shazam app
Jan 31 19:24:00 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: causae i can make a mic service in 2 seconds
Jan 31 19:24:04 * dcordes pukes
Jan 31 19:24:09 <Rick_work> dcordes  sorry.
Jan 31 19:24:11 <dcordes> that's ridiculous
Jan 31 19:24:13 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: shazam could be done right now
Jan 31 19:24:17 <PuffTheMagic> if the api was avail
Jan 31 19:24:21 <PuffTheMagic> for free
Jan 31 19:24:27 <Rick_work> dcordes  life is hard.  That's the way it is.
Jan 31 19:24:42 <dcordes> Rick_work, what's the purpose? force people to use webos
Jan 31 19:24:57 <Abyssul> PuffTheMagic: : could you make a audio record app?
Jan 31 19:24:58 <dcordes> instead of androed
Jan 31 19:25:12 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: yeah that is dead easy too
Jan 31 19:25:21 <Abyssul> PuffTheMagic: precorder only records for 2 mins
Jan 31 19:25:22 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: i was supposed to make a verbal memo app
Jan 31 19:25:40 <dcordes> personally I would not like to see android but something like mickeyl plans
Jan 31 19:25:45 <Abyssul> I shot a email to shazam for webos
Jan 31 19:25:53 <Rick_work> dcordes  everything we know about the modem comm is published at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Research_Pre_GSM_Modem_Protocol
Jan 31 19:26:02 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: if they pay me to make the app I will do it for them
Jan 31 19:26:21 <dcordes> Rick_work, thanks
Jan 31 19:26:38 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: so verbal memos.... good idea?
Jan 31 19:26:41 <Rick_work> dcordes  they don't tell us what the purpose is.  But I suspect, if I had to guess, that TI required that they do that since the base OS was open source....   I suspect it wasn't palm's call.
Jan 31 19:26:50 <PuffTheMagic> record notes as mp3's
Jan 31 19:27:13 <PuffTheMagic> or some other extension?
Jan 31 19:27:14 <Abyssul> I wouldn't use it for memos. I'd record long notes from professors and record my drums
Jan 31 19:27:20 <PuffTheMagic> i could probably write that tonight
Jan 31 19:27:24 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: yeah same thing
Jan 31 19:27:35 <Abyssul> I would love that
Jan 31 19:28:12 <bsdbandit> hey guys whats going on
Jan 31 19:28:23 <Abyssul> bsdbandit: planning
Jan 31 19:28:36 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: i can support recording from mic or bt audio device
Jan 31 19:28:37 <bsdbandit> planning for what  im just curious
Jan 31 19:28:40 <PuffTheMagic> incase u have a bt mic
Jan 31 19:28:40 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Jan 31 19:28:46 <Abyssul> Na
Jan 31 19:28:47 <PuffTheMagic> or are dictating something with a headset
Jan 31 19:28:52 <Abyssul> Mic
Jan 31 19:28:58 <PuffTheMagic> well this isnt just for you
Jan 31 19:29:04 <Abyssul> But you can throw that i n there
Jan 31 19:29:09 <Abyssul> Yea
Jan 31 19:29:27 <Abyssul> bsdbandit: voice record memo app
Jan 31 19:29:28 <Rick_work> dcordes  if you want to chat with the folks doing the research, contact morphis@gravedo.de	
Jan 31 19:29:28 <Rick_work>  or check into the webos-internals@googlegroups.com group
Jan 31 19:29:55 <bsdbandit> cool
Jan 31 19:29:56 <PuffTheMagic> Abyssul: i guess more of a general audio recorder
Jan 31 19:30:10 <Abyssul> Yea
Jan 31 19:30:26 <PuffTheMagic> choose source (BT, MIC), choose codec (faac, mp3, wav, flac)
Jan 31 19:30:30 <Abyssul> Is it possible to have them listed and add names?
Jan 31 19:30:44 <PuffTheMagic> fixed durations or infinite
Jan 31 19:30:46 <Abyssul> Or would it be like precorder simple
Jan 31 19:30:57 <PuffTheMagic> you can choose the name of the file first
Jan 31 19:31:02 <PuffTheMagic> or do an on the fly recording
Jan 31 19:32:40 <Abyssul> Sounds beastly
Jan 31 19:32:49 <bsdbandit> its seems like everyone is moving to android
Jan 31 19:32:54 <bsdbandit> but i think webos is bette
Jan 31 19:32:56 <bsdbandit> better
Jan 31 19:33:01 <Abyssul> Who is everyone?
Jan 31 19:33:07 <Rick_work> god I hope not.  Horrible multitasking interface
Jan 31 19:33:20 <Abyssul> Android just has a crapload of phones
Jan 31 19:33:30 <dcordes> Rick_work, don't have a palm. I'm just lurking
Jan 31 19:33:38 <Rick_work> dcordes  oh
Jan 31 19:33:52 <Abyssul> Yea, compared to android, webos is so fluid and elegant
Jan 31 19:33:54 <Rick_work> well why the hell not?  It's the best phone I've ever owned.  :)
Jan 31 19:34:38 <Abyssul> dcordes: what do you have now?
Jan 31 19:35:16 <dcordes> Abyssul, htc blueangel, htc kaiser, htc kovsky, htc leo soon
Jan 31 19:35:42 <Abyssul> Htc fan much lol
Jan 31 19:37:15 <Abyssul> Am I the only one who thinks we won't see Pre 2 until June of 2010 or possibly 2011
Jan 31 19:37:45 <Abyssul> Pre GT should be the name :p
Jan 31 19:39:24 <dcordes> Abyssul, embedded linux fan actually
Jan 31 19:39:31 <Abyssul> PuffTheMagic: did you dedicate to that idea? I don't wanna have false hopes :p
Jan 31 19:39:58 <bsdbandit> cool
Jan 31 19:41:13 <Kyusaku> Pre Plus Plus. Pre EXTREME
Jan 31 19:48:35 <dcordes> bye
Jan 31 19:50:11 <psykoz> I really don't care if they showcase pre2 yet, I want them to optimise the hell out of webOS personally
Jan 31 19:51:22 <psykoz> egaudet, did you ever see if you were able to draw custom stuff in the notification section?
Jan 31 19:53:38 <JayCanuck> Pre -> Pre+ -> Pre²
Jan 31 19:53:40 <JayCanuck> ;)
Jan 31 19:54:07 <destinal-home> I'm waiting for Post
Jan 31 19:54:10 <JayCanuck> lol
Jan 31 19:55:27 <destinal-home> JayCanuck: how's life and/or webos hacking
Jan 31 19:55:48 <morgan> I have downloaded preware and restarted my phone and i went to bring preware back up and it won't get off the download page
Jan 31 19:56:24 <JayCanuck> lol, well, I'm finishin up testin on wosqi v3.0 then I gotta get to the PreCentral article I've been meanin to write
Jan 31 19:57:35 <Kyusaku> morgan: did you install the package manager service?
Jan 31 19:58:22 <destinal-home> JayCanuck: oh, was meaning to ask.   dependencies in 3.0?  (pretty please?)  :)
Jan 31 19:58:37 <Kyusaku> haha I was about to ask that
Jan 31 19:58:44 <JayCanuck> not in 3.0, but I'm leaving a few things out with 3.0
Jan 31 19:58:46 <egaudet-wirc> psykoz: no I'm working on a theme api / manager
Jan 31 19:59:04 <JayCanuck> wanted to get ipk theming in 3.0, but I'm postponing that too
Jan 31 19:59:28 <Kyusaku> JayCanuck: Internalz ever gonna see an update this decade, your teasers are killer
Jan 31 19:59:37 <JayCanuck> lol, tryin
Jan 31 20:00:42 <egaudet-wirc> depenencies are high priority imo.  also are the reports that qi removes package even when prerm fails?
Jan 31 20:01:17 <JayCanuck> I altered packing install/uninstalls so they are now linked to postinst/prem
Jan 31 20:01:21 <JayCanuck> *prerm
Jan 31 20:01:36 <egaudet-wirc> brb gotta switfh to wifi
Jan 31 20:01:48 <JayCanuck> Kyusaku, I just wanna implement file/directory info screens, a bit more refinement to the text editor, and maybe a system information screen and then I'll be doing a proper 1.0 release
Jan 31 20:03:39 <egaudet-wirc> am I back?
Jan 31 20:03:48 <JayCanuck> are you?
Jan 31 20:03:49 <JayCanuck> lol
Jan 31 20:03:54 <egaudet-wirc> lol
Jan 31 20:05:05 <JayCanuck> anybody know of any screen capture windows apps other than Fraps?
Jan 31 20:05:43 <destinal-home> egaudet-wirc: wirc does make one wonder at times
Jan 31 20:06:07 <egaudet-wirc> yea it's hard to know
Jan 31 20:06:29 <Tibfib> JayCanuck: camtasia recorder
Jan 31 20:08:11 <JayCanuck> I currently have Adobe Premiere for video editing, anyone have any recommendations over it?
Jan 31 20:08:59 <Tibfib> sony vegas
Jan 31 20:09:08 <JayCanuck> (I wanna make a short Internalz tour vid, as it seems the average user may need to guidance to get the most out of it)
Jan 31 20:09:17 <JayCanuck> k, ty Tibfib
Jan 31 20:13:09 <Tibfib> yep
Jan 31 20:14:33 <Kyusaku> the app feeds certainly are opening up a can of worms
Jan 31 20:14:37 <Smubeht> did anyone purchase that slidetounlock app?  does it replace lock screen somehow or is it as weird as i am imagining where it just lets you unlock inside the app which really in turn does nothing?
Jan 31 20:16:54 <destinal-home> Smubeht: interesting.  first I've heard of it.  I don't see how anything supported in the palm catalog could properly take the place of the lock interface
Jan 31 20:17:06 <Smubeht> thats what i was thinking
Jan 31 20:17:17 <bsneed> howdy
Jan 31 20:17:17 <Smubeht> its in the beta catalog i think
Jan 31 20:17:40 <Kyusaku> I can't find it
Jan 31 20:18:38 <Smubeht> but it seems like its the latter where it just has an app that looks like that.  i was wondering mostly for the fact that they added date to it and adjusted look and feel.  because i am more concerned with trying to see if something like intelliscreen on the lock screen is possible and would prefer if there was something to go off or something
Jan 31 20:20:39 <egaudet-wirc> if you look at screenshot it looks like an app
Jan 31 20:20:44 <Smubeht> yeah
Jan 31 20:20:47 <Smubeht> because of the menu
Jan 31 20:20:49 <Smubeht> on top right?
Jan 31 20:20:57 <egaudet-wirc> top left yeah
Jan 31 20:21:07 <Smubeht> well top as a whole
Jan 31 20:21:16 <Smubeht> since lock screen doenst have the menu bar
Jan 31 20:21:24 <Smubeht> let alone a menu called slidetounlock
Jan 31 20:21:25 <Smubeht> =)
Jan 31 20:21:34 <Kyusaku> ugh these QR code scanner apps are worthless without pulling data from camera in real time. It takes forever to find the right angle/distance to successfully read the code.
Jan 31 20:22:09 <Smubeht> sucks palm didnt put in auto focus into the cams.  how much more expensive is it to add that to the camera part?
Jan 31 20:22:46 <destinal-home> Smubeht: my concern would be that if it's an app with a menubar, then the phone isn't actually locked and it's totally useless pretense
Jan 31 20:23:28 <Smubeht> yeah
Jan 31 20:24:24 <Smubeht> thats what i was saying meaning not just the menu for the app but the fact that the menu bar is showing kinda shows that its fully contained in an app right so therefore doesnt act as a real lock screen..so pretty much serves no purpose as far as i can see
Jan 31 20:25:20 <Kyusaku> it'd be great if you could blacklist apps via swipe to delete
Jan 31 20:25:27 <Kyusaku> in the app catalog
Jan 31 20:25:36 <Smubeht> haha yeah
Jan 31 20:26:32 <Smubeht> but i pretty much just go into recent
Jan 31 20:26:34 <Smubeht> and see whats new
Jan 31 20:26:46 <Kyusaku> yeah that's what I do
Jan 31 20:26:46 <Smubeht> so i rarely see all those brighthouse labs apps
Jan 31 20:26:51 <Smubeht> dijits keep coming ofc
Jan 31 20:26:58 <destinal-home> Kyusaku: should be a delete button that lets you select App or Vendor
Jan 31 20:27:31 <destinal-home> aka "welcome to my kill file" :)
Jan 31 20:27:41 <egaudet-wirc> patch
Jan 31 20:29:36 <Kyusaku> yeah that vendor hide thing is great, but there are one shots you really don't want to keep going back to add them
Jan 31 20:31:23 <Kyusaku> plus doesn't it just turns the entries transparent
Jan 31 20:32:45 <JayCanuck> certainly interesting patch potential ;)
Jan 31 20:33:18 <JayCanuck> maybe a slide to delete with a confirmation to add it to a filter or something
Jan 31 20:35:22 <Kyusaku> yeah, maybe add an option to view filtered list as well as to not be so nasty to those developers
Jan 31 20:35:57 <Kyusaku> if it can completely remove them from the list
Jan 31 20:36:20 <Kyusaku> can be*
Jan 31 20:36:29 <Kyusaku> errr whatever
Jan 31 20:36:37 <Kyusaku> confused my thoughts
Jan 31 20:40:48 <alex____> hi! the battery of my device only works for a day (<= 24h), can I use only 2G/edge mode instead 3G to improve the duration?
Jan 31 20:41:43 <Kyusaku> there's no edge on CDMA
Jan 31 20:41:54 <JayCanuck> Kyusaku, I'll take a stab at a patch later tonight
Jan 31 20:42:31 <Kyusaku> JayCanuck: Cool deal. no rush, just shooting out thoughts
Jan 31 20:42:43 <Kyusaku> I think ppl would dig it though
Jan 31 20:42:48 <JayCanuck> I too would like the filtered app catalog ;)
Jan 31 20:43:07 <Tibfib> me three
Jan 31 20:43:41 <Kyusaku> alex____: it's debated whether 1x data will really save your battery life.
Jan 31 20:44:45 <Kyusaku> for the same amount of data I think EV uses less battery but I could be mistaken.
Jan 31 20:45:25 <Kyusaku> if I need to be skimpy on battery life and data I just turn it off via JayCanuck's Menu Megamix patch
Jan 31 20:45:50 <PuffTheMagic> destinal-home: wanna make a 100% phone ui in EFL and run it on E?
Jan 31 20:45:52 <PuffTheMagic> with me?
Jan 31 20:45:55 <bsdbandit> is anyone recomiling the kernel on webos
Jan 31 20:45:55 <bsdbandit> ?
Jan 31 20:46:11 <JayCanuck> heh, I have my phone radio off 24/7, doesn't save as much battery as I'd personally like, but I've got stock 1150mAh battery
Jan 31 20:47:47 <destinal-home> PuffTheMagic: I'm intrigued (and would like to do that), but I don't know how much time I could put in
Jan 31 20:48:18 <PuffTheMagic> destinal-home: im interested in just making a custom dialpad right now :D
Jan 31 20:48:26 <PuffTheMagic> that would at least make the new ui useful
Jan 31 20:48:39 <destinal-home> PuffTheMagic: and just make a lunaservice client?
Jan 31 20:49:06 <PuffTheMagic> ehhh idk
Jan 31 20:49:21 <PuffTheMagic> i thought we knew enought about the phone to talk to it our self
Jan 31 20:49:26 <Kyusaku> JayCanuck: I manage to get by during those 12hr days in NYC. with moderate to heavy web usage with phone radio on and data off unless I need it for browsing or GMaps.
Jan 31 20:49:31 <PuffTheMagic> im sure we could make our own service
Jan 31 20:49:35 <bsneed> anyone successfully installed the arm gcc macport on 10.6?
Jan 31 20:49:45 <PuffTheMagic> we could using existing service too
Jan 31 20:50:20 <destinal-home> PuffTheMagic: uh, the fso guys have been hacking at the binary protocol to the baseband for a couple of months and haven't managed to make a call yet AFAIK
Jan 31 20:50:32 <PuffTheMagic> oh
Jan 31 20:50:39 <PuffTheMagic> what i read on the ml soudned like they had it working
Jan 31 20:51:14 <destinal-home> not sure if they have very recently but last I read they were getting closer but it's still a hard hack
Jan 31 20:52:07 <destinal-home> besides I think it would be most useful to work on the higher tiers of stack first and work downward (so that the new UI stuff can share the device for a while)
Jan 31 20:52:24 <egaudet-wirc> if the phone app can do it why can't we just use existing services
Jan 31 20:54:31 <alex____> Kyusaku: where can I find the jayCanuck? from preware?
Jan 31 20:55:00 <alex____> I have the minimal brigthness, and read one of my mail boxes every 30min
Jan 31 20:55:32 <alex____> for exampel, contacts and calendar could be sync once a day... can I do that?
Jan 31 20:55:36 <JayCanuck> alex____ I believe he's referring to Device Menu Megamic, which, yea, is available in Preware
Jan 31 20:55:57 <JayCanuck> *Megamix
Jan 31 20:56:49 <alex____> ok JayCanuck & Kyusaku thanks :) go see
Jan 31 21:00:33 <Kyusaku> Contacts syncs like once a day unless you make changes, Calendar syncs the same way I think unless you open it.
Jan 31 21:21:23 <tlp> TEP was totally worth it. Just shattered my Pre's screen. Took a spill and landed on my hip pocket.
Jan 31 21:22:20 <destinal-home> tlp: far less spectacularly, my power/sleep button failed.  probably that's under warranty though
Jan 31 21:22:21 <tlp> I guess shattered is a bit dramatic, but the touchscreen doesn't work anymore, haha.
Jan 31 21:22:35 <tlp> yeah, mine kinda failed too. Still works, but it doesn't click. I hope the Pre Plus fixed all this crap.
Jan 31 21:23:00 <sslow> JayCanuck: you need anybody to test Internalz
Jan 31 21:23:11 <destinal-home> tlp: well not only doesn't it click, but it has to be pressed HARD to register now
Jan 31 21:23:18 <tlp> yep, that's how mine is too
Jan 31 21:23:29 <tlp> 6 month old Pre from August or something
Jan 31 21:23:49 <destinal-home> yeah, mine is from June
Jan 31 21:25:16 <egaudet-wirc> destinal-home: mine is same too
Jan 31 21:25:22 <egaudet-wirc> annoying
Jan 31 21:25:40 <egaudet-wirc> I use slider to wake cuz it's so hard
Jan 31 21:26:35 <destinal-home> egaudet-wirc: can it be replaced for that reason?  I have that and maybe 6 or 7 dead pixels
Jan 31 21:26:55 <egaudet-wirc> no idea
Jan 31 21:27:04 <egaudet-wirc> I haven't tried
Jan 31 21:27:30 <Nick212004> Does anyone here use Freetether?
Jan 31 21:27:51 <Nick212004> With Freetether I have it on my Pre and my laptop picks it up and connects, but then it says "Local Access Only" and does not allow me to connect to the internet. How do I fix this?
Jan 31 21:27:51 <destinal-home> egaudet-wirc: if not, just need a hidd hack to swap center button and power :)
Jan 31 21:28:42 <egaudet-wirc> yea that would really be good
Jan 31 21:31:33 <tlp> yeah, I always use the slider to wake anyway
Jan 31 21:31:51 <destinal-home> tlp: but then that wears out another moving part :(
Jan 31 21:32:06 <tlp> hehe, true. I usually use the keyboard though.
Jan 31 21:32:26 <tlp> and the slider can be fixed a bit just by pressing on the metal hands under the battery cover
Jan 31 21:46:44 * dBsooner 'sPre is from June 06.
Jan 31 22:00:51 <dBsooner> Is there a way to make "tar" go faster?
Jan 31 22:01:07 <dBsooner> or is there a faster way to backup 30GB's?
Jan 31 22:01:35 <gkatsev> get a faster processor?
Jan 31 22:01:38 <bsneed> does time travel count?
Jan 31 22:01:44 <dBsooner> lol
Jan 31 22:01:50 <dBsooner> gkatsev: I have a quad core.
Jan 31 22:01:54 <dBsooner> I don't think it's the processor.
Jan 31 22:01:55 <dBsooner> ;)
Jan 31 22:02:07 <dBsooner> this is just mind boggling boring.
Jan 31 22:02:18 <bsneed> time travel would fix my problem too.
Jan 31 22:02:21 <dBsooner> maybe it's disk cache speeds
Jan 31 22:02:23 <bsneed> we should put our energies into that.
Jan 31 22:02:32 <gkatsev> tar apparently isnt multithreaded, but 7z is, so, use that
Jan 31 22:02:40 <dBsooner> it is? awesome
Jan 31 22:03:17 <gkatsev> specifically, the 7z format
Jan 31 22:03:24 <bsneed> gkatsev +1
Jan 31 22:03:28 <bsneed> tar -1
Jan 31 22:04:36 <gkatsev> http://www.7-zip.org/7z.html
Jan 31 22:06:11 <dBsooner> gkatsev: yes, getting CentOS rpm now
Jan 31 22:06:48 <dBsooner> can you 7zip without compression?
Jan 31 22:07:43 <Smubeht> is there a way to keep the background showing while on touchstone?
Jan 31 22:07:48 <Smubeht> instead of it changing to black?
Jan 31 22:08:27 <bsneed> is it more polite to not respond, or say "i don't know"?
Jan 31 22:08:49 <bsneed> its a delicate balance between useless information and making sure the other person doesn't feel ignored.
Jan 31 22:09:12 <Smubeht> lol
Jan 31 22:09:31 <gkatsev> dBsooner: yes?
Jan 31 22:09:46 <dBsooner> Becaue with compression it's only 1MB/sec
Jan 31 22:09:49 <dBsooner> That's slow
Jan 31 22:09:57 <dBsooner> I want to see 10MB/s
Jan 31 22:10:11 <dBsooner> 100Seconds per gig
Jan 31 22:10:21 <dBsooner> that's still a long time though
Jan 31 22:10:22 <dBsooner> sigh
Jan 31 22:10:28 <dBsooner> i'll just wait on tar to complete.
Jan 31 22:11:14 <gkatsev> the other day, i wanted to convert a 4.5 gig file into 2.5 2GB files, but, i forgot specify MB when i gave it 2000, so, it created 2KB files. a whole 72000 of them
Jan 31 22:11:31 <bsneed> lol
Jan 31 22:12:01 <bsneed> and in addition took up probably 2x as much space as they should have on your drive. :)
Jan 31 22:12:14 <gkatsev> took me forever to figure out how to delete all the files, lol
Jan 31 22:12:31 <gkatsev> had to use find -name -exec
Jan 31 22:12:47 <PuffTheMagic> excuse me everyone
Jan 31 22:13:05 <PuffTheMagic> Little Debbie Cosmic Brownies are the shit!
Jan 31 22:13:18 <bsneed> brownies + shit in the same sentence = bad
Jan 31 22:13:33 <Smubeht> cosmic brownies ftw
Jan 31 22:13:42 <gkatsev> lol
Jan 31 22:13:46 <gkatsev> g2g, bbl
Jan 31 22:14:09 <dBsooner> tar's going at 20MB/s
Jan 31 22:14:11 <dBsooner> I'm ok with that.
Jan 31 22:14:21 <dBsooner> but jeepers. This sucks.
Jan 31 22:25:54 <xorg> i'm working on dropbox sync... if anyone that has a dropbox account wants to test and has terminal access, pm me here or on precentral.  it also does backup of media drive to a PC over wifi.
Jan 31 22:41:01 <latta> hello
Jan 31 22:41:35 <VincentLaw> xorg:I doooo!
Jan 31 22:46:54 <latta> is there a way to sort by date on music player remis or palm pre music app? so that you could play the most recent songs?
Jan 31 22:53:54 <bsneed> is it normal for the touchstone charger to make a buzzing sound?
Jan 31 22:53:56 <bsneed> :S
Jan 31 22:56:32 <PuffTheMagic> bsneed: electrical buzzing?
Jan 31 22:56:33 <PuffTheMagic> nice
Jan 31 22:59:30 <VincentLaw> bsneed: that's normal if you've been talking about the iphone too much in its presence
Jan 31 22:59:55 <JMyaDaGod> kaboooooom
Jan 31 23:00:39 <bsneed> puff; yeah;
Jan 31 23:00:49 <JMyaDaGod> Yo has anyone else expeiranced preware not recgonizing all ur patches and apps that are installed....one day all gone,but still installed?
Jan 31 23:01:16 <rwhitby> JMyaDaGod: run ERU
Jan 31 23:01:28 <bsneed> VincentLaw: well he's just going to have to get over that. :)
Jan 31 23:01:42 <JMyaDaGod> rwhitby : thanks , do u know what causes this?
Jan 31 23:06:34 <rwhitby> JMyaDaGod: lack of locking in ipkg
Jan 31 23:12:10 <latta> help
Jan 31 23:21:56 <JMyaDaGod> rwhitby : it installed but did nothing?
Jan 31 23:35:39 <rwhitby> heh: "I dont have access to the donor forums i got the paid version somewhere else" - people actually say those things in publicly logged channels ...
Jan 31 23:39:56 <bsneed> my webos xcode plugin is now working.  w00t!  http://drp.ly/jzp6X
Jan 31 23:40:40 <destinal-home> m,k,]\0]\
Jan 31 23:52:49 <rwhitby> JMyaDaGod: update feeds should show the results of it running
Feb 01 00:18:10 <Rick_work> latta, what kind of help?
Feb 01 00:19:29 <Rick_work> rwhitby  was that about mytether?
Feb 01 00:21:44 <rwhitby> Rick_work: yep
Feb 01 00:24:30 <Rick_work> rwhitby  people are amazing.
Feb 01 00:32:29 <rwhitby> So, I have an idea of how to halve the time it takes Preware to load.
Feb 01 00:32:39 <Rick_work> that would be good.
Feb 01 00:32:44 <Rick_work> Espeially on first-use.
Feb 01 00:33:34 <rwhitby> Since I added the status messages coming back from ipkgservice to preware about which feeds are being downloaded, we should be able to load the first feed while the second feed is being downloaded, and so on.
Feb 01 00:33:51 <rwhitby> oil: pin
Feb 01 00:33:52 <rwhitby> g
Feb 01 00:39:15 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: does the C based ipkgservice allow for individual feed updates?
Feb 01 00:39:34 <PuffTheMagic> it could
Feb 01 00:39:42 <PuffTheMagic> i does not currently
Feb 01 00:41:18 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: we should figure out how to use the palm cert manager for signed packages
Feb 01 00:42:08 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: yeah, that's a good idea, using the palm service to install our preware root CA cert.
Feb 01 00:47:56 <PuffTheMagic> oil: how u been
Feb 01 00:48:05 <PuffTheMagic> oil: u are so quiet lately
Feb 01 00:52:21 <oil_> im good
Feb 01 00:53:20 <oil> and i just, don't have anything to say
Feb 01 00:53:31 <dBsooner> oil is here?
Feb 01 00:53:35 <oil> no
Feb 01 00:53:37 <dBsooner> k
Feb 01 00:54:03 <oil> lol
Feb 01 00:59:00 <rwhitby> oil: can you see any problems with pipelining the update and loading phases in Preware?
Feb 01 01:00:43 <oil> pipelining?
Feb 01 01:02:38 <dBsooner> yeah.. | pipe
Feb 01 01:02:40 <dBsooner> :D
Feb 01 01:02:51 * dBsooner really doubts that what was being referred to.
Feb 01 01:03:15 <oil> just change the download request to a service
Feb 01 01:03:22 <oil> and respond with "downloading" every couple of seconds
Feb 01 01:03:28 <oil> and add an if statement to the responder in js
Feb 01 01:03:47 <oil> and by service, i mean subscription
Feb 01 01:11:12 <bluecreek> hello -- anyone home?
Feb 01 01:11:30 <Rick_work> is it that hard to write the service so that it would be a normal asyc call with a callback instead of polling?
Feb 01 01:11:50 <Rick_work> Because that would make so much sense.
Feb 01 01:12:40 <destinal-home> Rick_work: it's not that bad'
Feb 01 01:13:11 <Rick_work> rwhitby when you said "load" the first feed while the second is downloading, did you mean that you would like to parse the return from the first service, while the second is downloading?
Feb 01 01:13:11 <destinal-home> Rick_work: we already do it for most of the calls in Preware IIRC, just not the feed download
Feb 01 01:14:02 <Rick_work> destinal-home   So, we do "getFeed(feed1)  and it has a callback to parsefeed()
Feb 01 01:14:32 <Rick_work> and at the head of parseFeed we call getFeed(feed2) and then go on to parse the previous one.
Feb 01 01:14:33 <destinal-home> rwhitby: I don't necessarily agree with installing a root CA, it would be trusted for too much.
Feb 01 01:19:16 <rwhitby> oil: my thoughts are that there is a single update call, and it sends back status messages as ipkg starts to wget each packages file.
Feb 01 01:19:54 <rwhitby> oil: preware then parses that URL, matches it against a feed config, and loads the list for for the feed config in parallel with ipkg downloading the other packages files
Feb 01 01:20:50 <rwhitby> oil: so we keep track of which URL is being downloaded now, and when a new URL begins downloading, then the list file corresponding to the previous URL is loaded.
Feb 01 01:36:40 <destinal-home> bbiab
Feb 01 01:44:21 <xorg> if anyone is interested in dropbox syncing for pre, pm me here or on precentral...
Feb 01 01:45:23 <xorg> it seperately also can do an entire  backup of /media/internal to windows PC over wifi... with scheduled backups
Feb 01 01:46:11 <xorg> i have dropbox sycing working in both directions now
Feb 01 01:49:56 <Rick_work> yeah!!!
Feb 01 01:51:04 <rwhitby> xorg: it needs a PC running dropbox, right?
Feb 01 01:51:48 <rwhitby> xorg: are you just using rsync?
Feb 01 01:54:29 <random_> morning
Feb 01 01:54:37 <xorg> yes, it uses a pc with dropbox, smb mount and rsync
Feb 01 01:55:35 <xorg> i've started a page..
Feb 01 01:55:36 <xorg> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Dropbox_Syncing
Feb 01 01:57:10 <random_> i'm about to attempt enabling WebDAV n lighttpd on my pre.. does anyone know of any dissadvantges to this setup? as in a huge loss in battery performance or device speed (i dont know hot light is lighttpd as i've only used it on a pc)
Feb 01 01:57:33 <rwhitby> random_: dunno, let us know what you experience.
Feb 01 01:58:05 <rwhitby> random_: I would expect that when there are no connections to the web server, then it should just be sitting at a select() call and not take any CPU or battery.
Feb 01 01:58:35 <random_> ok, so i'll test and provide feedback :)
Feb 01 01:58:40 <rwhitby> if you nice the lighttpd process, then it won't impact the UI speed
Feb 01 01:59:05 <rwhitby> random_: if you come up with a good configuration, we could put it into Preware
Feb 01 02:02:35 <Rick_work> xorg  just read your page.  Nice work
Feb 01 02:04:48 <xorg> Rick_work: thanks... should have ready for semi-plubic install later tonite.
Feb 01 02:08:25 <rwhitby> xorg: looks like your the conduit for all the good optware stuff that is just sitting there becoming useful for the masses.
Feb 01 02:09:45 <rwhitby> xorg: it would be good if the optware support in xt used the new preware packages, rather than the deprecated bootstrap script.
Feb 01 02:10:40 <Rick_work> rwhitby  There's a problem with that.
Feb 01 02:11:03 <rwhitby> Rick_work: what's the problem?
Feb 01 02:11:44 <Rick_work> we need to have a good solid way to walk people through getting keys in -- because the preware openssh stuff just doesn't work without keys.
Feb 01 02:11:49 <xorg> rwhitby... i thought that was the same bootstrap
Feb 01 02:11:59 <Rick_work> and most people have no-freaking-idea how to do that.
Feb 01 02:12:14 <Rick_work> xorg, the preware ones don't produce a non-privlidged user. the script does.
Feb 01 02:12:26 <xorg> what should i execute for optware bootstrap?
Feb 01 02:13:38 <Rick_work> the point being, that unless you're running novaterm, then the script makes it possible to scp and ssh in immediately using the unprivlidged user, whereas the preware ones don't.
Feb 01 02:13:57 <rwhitby> xorg: just use ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install mobi.optware.openssh-sftp-server
Feb 01 02:14:10 <xorg> rwhitby: thanks, i'm on it.
Feb 01 02:14:30 <xorg> will it install optware with ipkg-opt?
Feb 01 02:14:34 <rwhitby> Rick_work: if you're already at the shell prompt running xt, then you can add a key
Feb 01 02:14:43 <xorg> i really just need ipkg-opt so that i can install samba
Feb 01 02:14:54 <rwhitby> xorg: mobi.optware.ipkg-opt
Feb 01 02:15:03 <tlynch> has anyone tried patching the slacker app to play the 128kbps mp3 stream yet?\
Feb 01 02:15:12 <Rick_work> nope
Feb 01 02:15:27 <xorg> rwhitby: thanks, i'm just going to install ipkg-opt
Feb 01 02:15:31 <rwhitby> Rick_work: and perhaps xt can assist people in transferring keys
Feb 01 02:15:42 <Rick_work> rwhitby  that's a really good idea.
Feb 01 02:15:57 <xorg> i've rewritten xt so that it uses plugins, which self generating menus based on the menus
Feb 01 02:16:08 <xorg> so any of you can add your own plugins and it just appears in the menus
Feb 01 02:16:38 <xorg> i'll post instruction on plugins later
Feb 01 02:16:42 <Rick_work> kk
Feb 01 02:17:11 <Rick_work> xorg can we talk about keys at some point please, I want to work out a "for dummies" technique
Feb 01 02:17:19 <zsoc> whatd i miss
Feb 01 02:17:31 <Rick_work> and if you're putting samba in, we could get this done easily.
Feb 01 02:17:36 <xorg> yes, we can create a plugin to deal with keys
Feb 01 02:18:24 <xorg> i haven't posted much about this yet but xt also does full media backup over wifi to windows and it is slick..
Feb 01 02:18:41 <xorg> imagine taking a picture and it shows up on your pc
Feb 01 02:18:45 <Rick_work> nodnod
Feb 01 02:18:48 <ird> arg
Feb 01 02:18:52 <ird> time to doctor my phone..
Feb 01 02:18:59 <Rick_work> whassa matter ird?
Feb 01 02:19:26 <ird> broken patches.
Feb 01 02:19:39 <ird> well, stuff I manually patched.
Feb 01 02:19:41 <Rick_work> epr
Feb 01 02:19:47 <Rick_work> oh
Feb 01 02:19:49 <Rick_work> ouch
Feb 01 02:19:59 <Rick_work> did you make backups?
Feb 01 02:19:59 <ird> Not so bad.
Feb 01 02:20:24 <ird> I did, but I have misplaced them.
Feb 01 02:20:25 <ird> No matter.
Feb 01 02:20:53 <Rick_work> well, you can always pull individual files out of the doctor.
Feb 01 02:21:23 <nt4cats> Rick_work: isn't doctoring your Pre a rite of passage?
Feb 01 02:21:36 <ird> nt4cats: not when you've done it a few times :p
Feb 01 02:21:44 <ird> after the first time it's just a pain ;)
Feb 01 02:21:53 * nt4cats hasn
Feb 01 02:22:01 <ird> but with the meta-doctor it's not so bad, since I don't have to go stand in the snow for 20 minutes trying to get service to activate my phone.
Feb 01 02:22:02 * nt4cats hasn't broken his pre enough to doctor it yet
Feb 01 02:22:52 * nt4cats had to pull files off of the doctor's rootfs recently (verizon's hotspot IPKs made my phone unhappy)
Feb 01 02:26:09 <tlynch> fyi if anyone is interested - slacker can be changed to use the higher quality mp3 stream
Feb 01 02:30:25 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: yo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Feb 01 02:30:29 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: what?
Feb 01 02:30:35 <PuffTheMagic> pm
Feb 01 02:30:41 <zsoc> i didn't get it
Feb 01 02:38:35 <zsoc> elementary work yet?
Feb 01 02:45:29 <sslow> JayCanuck: ping
Feb 01 02:49:15 <sslow> tlynch: spill it. lol
Feb 01 02:50:16 <tlynch> change line 7 in player-assistant.js to this.format = SLACKER.Settings.AUDIO_FORMAT_MP3;
Feb 01 02:50:59 <tlynch> on my 3rd song since changing and it sounds much better
Feb 01 02:51:27 <Abyssul> eh?
Feb 01 02:51:36 <Abyssul> im missing some crucial info here
Feb 01 02:52:09 <zsoc> Abyssul: arent we all
Feb 01 02:54:12 <xorg> ok, i've update dropbox sync homepage and the instruction are the to install
Feb 01 02:54:23 <xorg> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Dropbox_Syncing
Feb 01 02:54:54 <xorg> i've also update to use optware preware package rather than older bootstrap
Feb 01 02:55:12 <Rick_work> good work xorg
Feb 01 02:55:31 <xorg> dropbox sync now works in both directions but
Feb 01 02:55:47 <xorg> i had to have a separate inbox and outbox as rsync can only do one way that i know of
Feb 01 02:56:56 <zsoc> ... so.. what's going on
Feb 01 02:58:43 <Rick_work> xorg, but that's no big deal
Feb 01 02:59:36 <xorg> the inbox/outbox?  yeah, it works out ok
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 01 02:59:56 2010