**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 01 02:59:56 2010 Feb 01 03:00:13 is there a way in Upstart to trigger a script on a directory change? Feb 01 03:00:40 right now i use cron at 10-60 minute increments Feb 01 03:01:15 intervals i should say Feb 01 03:09:50 on a directory change of what xorg??? Feb 01 03:10:44 if /media/internal/dropbox/outbox changes, i want it to trigger the dropbox sync Feb 01 03:12:03 via Upstart Feb 01 03:12:36 you can inotify but it breaks when going to USB mode Feb 01 03:14:00 ^Thanks, checking into inotify... i'm not real fluent in upstart Feb 01 03:15:19 inotify is it's own thing you can use in a say a C program to listen to fs changes Feb 01 03:16:16 but once /media/internal gets unmounted it breaks a little, so you need to be aware of when it gets remounted (which you could do via udev) Feb 01 03:18:36 hi again.. just wondering if there is interest for a tool that allows to manage a webos device remotely.. ie, send sms, check location, access files, etc.. Feb 01 03:20:33 btw, everything via a web interface.. i plan to start it tomorrow, but i would like to know first if there is something similar available or in works right now (in order to avoid redundant work) Feb 01 03:21:06 egaudet: thanks, i'll look into it Feb 01 03:23:47 doctoring done!\ Feb 01 03:23:53 just gotta reinstall patches :D Feb 01 03:24:12 as soon as 1.3.5.1 gets done downloading.. Feb 01 03:24:32 Need to update my meta doctor to a newer version so it won't take so long next time (pray there isn't a next time but..) Feb 01 03:25:24 random_: i know of nothing like that Feb 01 03:29:18 zsoc: thanks, so i'll start working on that. Feb 01 03:30:20 feb 2010 comes soon for us east coasters... who else is hoping on a midnight est release for 1.4 ? :P Feb 01 03:30:38 Decimate: unlikely Feb 01 03:31:16 ha Feb 01 03:31:39 who is hoping? all! who is expecting? 1%? Feb 01 03:34:45 i want it Feb 01 03:34:46 SO BAD Feb 01 03:34:49 and after it comes out Feb 01 03:34:52 ill want the next update Feb 01 03:34:53 SO BAD Feb 01 03:35:29 and after the update to fix the bugs 1.4 comes out a week later Feb 01 03:35:34 ILL WANT THE NEXT SOOO SOOO BAD Feb 01 03:35:39 Decimate: well.. it could be worse, you could own on iphone D: Feb 01 03:36:56 Decimate: settle petal! Feb 01 03:38:29 lol zsoc Feb 01 03:39:03 if someone bought me an ipad i'd return it...just sayin. Feb 01 03:39:12 what you think of ms courier? Feb 01 03:39:23 there is this new tablet now too that runs win 7 Feb 01 03:39:26 that should be interesting Feb 01 03:39:31 touts only 4 hr battery life though Feb 01 03:39:43 i don't understand the appeal Feb 01 03:39:57 appeal of the courier or the ipad? Feb 01 03:39:59 i dont even like laptops sooooo.... Feb 01 03:39:59 decimate: if someone bought me an iPad right now id sell it on ebay for a lot of $$ Feb 01 03:40:03 or in general? Feb 01 03:40:14 that size/spec device Feb 01 03:40:20 Tibfib: no kidding... 10,000 dollars i bet :P Feb 01 03:40:33 and if steve jobs licked it Feb 01 03:40:38 100,000 dollars Feb 01 03:40:39 FORSURE Feb 01 03:40:42 its quick and small i see the appeal if its a device running a full os (win7 or macos) Feb 01 03:40:49 but running the iphone os is whack Feb 01 03:40:57 even if webos is on it itd suck Feb 01 03:41:09 now i dont agree with that Feb 01 03:41:18 webos can multitask Feb 01 03:41:28 thats a KEY difference defining a good tablet OS. Feb 01 03:41:30 Id still rather windows 7 than webos on a tablet Feb 01 03:41:33 multitask in a bs fashion though Feb 01 03:41:43 like u cant watch a movie and write an essay at same time Feb 01 03:41:46 i wouldn't use one without linux on it Feb 01 03:41:50 or u cant watch a movie and talk on irc Feb 01 03:41:51 etc Feb 01 03:41:57 who does that... Feb 01 03:42:03 the latter? me? Feb 01 03:42:24 the first one was just random one so i decided to use one more realistic Feb 01 03:43:07 even with multitasking webos is designed around 1 item shows at a time Feb 01 03:43:31 computer os multitasking is multiple items show up at same time Feb 01 03:43:46 that kinda multitasking isnt really practical on a phone as it would get messy Feb 01 03:43:51 which is why webos works Feb 01 03:43:53 very nicely Feb 01 03:44:19 but for a bigger screen id expect something that really works like a laptop(and is similar in strength) but is super portable Feb 01 03:44:38 ie if this thing had an i7 in it and touted 10 hr battery life while running win 7 id be sold Feb 01 03:44:40 =) Feb 01 03:44:59 possible atm probably not Feb 01 03:45:00 lol @ i7 Feb 01 03:45:16 haha burn ur lap typing like steve jobs was during wddc Feb 01 03:45:19 id sell my desktop Feb 01 03:45:48 Smubeht -- webos could multi-window easily enough. that it doesn't NOW has to do with 3 inch screen. Feb 01 03:46:03 but it's a trivial patch to luna to support multi-scaleable windows Feb 01 03:46:29 im unsure of all that stuff i guess..im going based on the way it is on pre pushed onto a bigger screen Feb 01 03:46:53 but if there was a bigger screen, there would be ROOM for the rest of it. Feb 01 03:46:54 if someone makes it so i can dual boot webos with my windows 7, i'd be happy. Feb 01 03:46:55 id doubt palm would release such a device though Feb 01 03:47:01 i have a touchscreen monitor... it'd be fun :) Feb 01 03:47:22 Smubeht you really don't think palm will do a tablet at some point? Seems like a no-brainer to me Feb 01 03:47:30 P-Pad. :-) Feb 01 03:47:42 or a non-gay name... :P Feb 01 03:47:59 "The tablet" Feb 01 03:47:59 not in the near future Rick_work Feb 01 03:48:03 trademark name.. Feb 01 03:48:14 Smubeht we'll see. unless you know something I don't Feb 01 03:48:25 i dont know anything like that Feb 01 03:48:26 =) Feb 01 03:48:37 but id guess not at least for now Feb 01 03:48:48 we'll see Feb 01 03:48:50 seems they are still trying to develop a base for their phones and regain that Feb 01 03:50:58 xorg: are you there? Feb 01 03:51:13 random_ yes Feb 01 03:55:07 xorg: i have an idea to share (dropbox sync related) Feb 01 03:55:16 yes? Feb 01 03:55:32 PuffTheMagic: Ping Feb 01 03:55:36 ? Feb 01 03:55:53 PuffTheMagic: Did you ever dedicate to that idea of a voice record app? Feb 01 03:56:00 Jw Feb 01 03:56:03 Abyssul: well its been on my todo list Feb 01 03:56:04 I really hope palm does a tablet and/or foleo type deveice Feb 01 03:56:14 PuffTheMagic: Spiffy alright Feb 01 03:58:17 Rick_work: tablets are a me-too craze. as such tablets have never done well. as such they are too big to go in a pocket. and too small to do "real work on" when u need to Feb 01 03:58:29 they are a niche device and are simpy hyped atm Feb 01 03:59:09 if it fits in a pcket nicely - u go from niche to mass-marklet Feb 01 03:59:25 and palm would be4 unwise to focus on anything non-mass-market atm Feb 01 03:59:43 if it fits in a pocket its likely a phone lol else u have big pockets Feb 01 03:59:44 =P Feb 01 04:00:19 the ipad will not have success equalling its hype - by quite a margin Feb 01 04:00:29 summatusmentis: correctwell pda;s Feb 01 04:00:48 but pdas died because they just are extra pocket lint ina ddition to your phone that u want to be able to communicate Feb 01 04:00:51 raster: I assume that's not directed at me? Feb 01 04:00:54 frankly iphone hit a perfect spot Feb 01 04:00:56 fits in pocket Feb 01 04:01:00 doesnt add pocket lint Feb 01 04:01:26 summatusmentis: ooh sorry. tab-complete... :) meant Smubeht Feb 01 04:01:27 :) Feb 01 04:01:36 no worries :) Feb 01 04:02:33 lol @pocket lint Feb 01 04:03:53 xcomp: its true tho :) Feb 01 04:04:02 1 device in peoples pockets is enough Feb 01 04:04:06 yeah i agree . tablets seem to be pretty useless..but what im thinking is if its as strong as a laptop and touts good battery life and runs a real os then its useable. Feb 01 04:04:11 in addition to keys Feb 01 04:04:11 yeah ... I don't get the tablet Feb 01 04:04:14 ipad is not pocketable Feb 01 04:04:21 so u need a bafg to carry it Feb 01 04:04:31 it's as expensive as a laptop that can actually do real stuf Feb 01 04:04:43 at that point... why not just a laptop/netbook that has a kbd and a real os that can do things... all the things that ipad can... and much more. Feb 01 04:04:43 why buy one and add to the laptop? Feb 01 04:04:50 and costs ablout the same or even less Feb 01 04:04:54 well i guess portability Feb 01 04:04:56 where am I going to use it? Feb 01 04:04:58 if ur on a plane Feb 01 04:05:05 Smubeht: netbooks are as portable as ipad Feb 01 04:05:06 ok ... so maybe it'll be nice for stay at home moms in the kitchen Feb 01 04:05:07 the small ones Feb 01 04:05:07 or in a cramped area Feb 01 04:05:11 who else? Feb 01 04:05:12 well not really Feb 01 04:05:17 they are portable Feb 01 04:05:32 but like ive used small laptops on planes and its not comfy due to the flap Feb 01 04:05:47 my phone does everything I need when I'm not on a laptop or computer Feb 01 04:06:42 this whole you should buy a giant ipod because it's an apple product thing ... I think they're getting overconfident Feb 01 04:06:51 the ipad is useless Feb 01 04:06:55 its a big ipod touch Feb 01 04:07:02 apple thinks it can't fail Feb 01 04:07:04 without a real os on it Feb 01 04:07:09 well it probably wont xcomp Feb 01 04:07:24 apple is probably the best marketing company out there it seems Feb 01 04:07:33 they can market the shit out of shit and makeit look like roses Feb 01 04:07:46 yeah, that's the one thing they have Feb 01 04:08:15 but apple used to make products that you wanted to have because they did stuff nothing else could Feb 01 04:08:37 now they're marketing a $500+ slab Feb 01 04:09:00 from what i heard they are opening up the iphone a bit Feb 01 04:09:06 so really the ipad is great for iphones Feb 01 04:09:15 i think voip is now allowed on iphones Feb 01 04:09:19 along with some other stuff Feb 01 04:09:26 due to it being set for the ipad Feb 01 04:09:27 Smubeht: i have a 10" laptop - its hyper-thin, weighs less than 1kg. and runs a full linux systems Feb 01 04:09:34 its also about 4 years old Feb 01 04:09:35 that's just succumbing to pressure from google Feb 01 04:09:48 I'm pretty confident in saying apple didn't do that because they wanted to Feb 01 04:10:01 im not talking about google voice Feb 01 04:10:05 (its maybe 25mm thick on one end and 10mm on the other as its tapered) Feb 01 04:10:28 yeah, it's still in the same dept -- google is the one putting pressure on apple to open up stuff Feb 01 04:10:33 and they don't like it Feb 01 04:10:34 Smubeht: and tyes. apple rocs at marketing Feb 01 04:10:37 rocks Feb 01 04:10:45 they will sell the ipad due almost entirely to that Feb 01 04:10:54 the droid does thing is a problem Feb 01 04:10:58 but the fact that its mostly an expensive & useless bit of tech will limit its appeal Feb 01 04:11:56 casual coffee table computing may make it a hit with normal everyday people Feb 01 04:12:40 you guys ever see this thing being developed by this indian guy pranav mistry? Feb 01 04:13:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzKmGTVmqJs Feb 01 04:13:23 id much prefer this Feb 01 04:13:25 to everything Feb 01 04:16:44 bpadalino: there have been 100's of tablets made long before ipad. ones that do anything from web browsing to media playing and more. and prices from cheap to pricey - nothing has taken off Feb 01 04:17:01 bpadalino: mobile phones too off. tablets did not Feb 01 04:17:39 the market has not shown that it is willing, in large numbers, to put down their cold hard cash for a big tablet device in ADDITION to their phones and pc's Feb 01 04:20:14 true, but it isn't like smartphones all of a sudden took off because the market changed .. it was that the software on the smartphones got to a point where it wasn't amazingly frustrating to work with - and it became helpful to have one instead of a hindrance Feb 01 04:21:02 bpadalino: it took off be4cause apple managed to do what every phone maker has been shit-scared to do Feb 01 04:21:05 that is screw the telco Feb 01 04:21:12 the iphone wasn't the first phone with a mobile web browser .. but it was the first one with a mobile web browser that wasn't a huge pain to use .. which made browsing on the phone easier Feb 01 04:21:21 if u know how the phone market works - u;ll know thats the thing that happpened Feb 01 04:21:34 ever since the4 TELOC has demanded that they are 100% inconmtrol of the devidce Feb 01 04:21:42 and the telco wants to be the seller of apps Feb 01 04:21:44 and just them Feb 01 04:21:51 of coruse thsi has failed miserably everywhere Feb 01 04:22:02 telcose just wanted to brand their phoens and push their services Feb 01 04:22:14 not focus on the actual users and a great experience for them Feb 01 04:22:22 that is very true Feb 01 04:22:29 if u work wiht phone makers this menality of "do everything to please the telco" still prevails Feb 01 04:22:34 its hard to fight against Feb 01 04:22:51 apple did their apple thing and built on top of their ipod Feb 01 04:23:14 ie peolpe love it and thus having an ipod+phone was enough to get a telco to - for once, say "ok apple - u can hav it your way" Feb 01 04:23:25 that opened the floodgates of change Feb 01 04:23:50 the next wave is the phone being just a generic computing platform Feb 01 04:23:52 ala android Feb 01 04:23:57 thats the next phae Feb 01 04:24:12 where telcos ANd makers of devices relinquish control to the developers entirely Feb 01 04:24:23 there are ways of doing this and still making your money Feb 01 04:26:31 Smubeht: that is amazing. pranav is a genius. Feb 01 04:27:05 xcomp: yo Feb 01 04:27:18 PuffTheMagic: oy Feb 01 04:27:31 xcomp: did something change in evas Feb 01 04:27:36 i tried building today and it failed Feb 01 04:27:47 evas_gl_texture.c:322: error: ‘GL_TEXTURE_RECTANGLE_ARB’ undeclared (first use in this function) Feb 01 04:28:07 PuffTheMagic: ask raster -- he's been working on texture as pixmap stuff for x11 compositing Feb 01 04:28:51 PuffTheMagic: pastebin? Feb 01 04:29:13 well that is the error Feb 01 04:29:42 yeah I want to know what module it was compiling when the error happened ... perhaps I can fix Feb 01 04:30:04 ge.c -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/evas_gl_image.o Feb 01 04:30:05 evas_gl_texture.c: In function ‘_pool_tex_native_new’: Feb 01 04:36:02 raster: i want lisp bindings for efl Feb 01 04:38:21 PuffTheMagic: thats in the glx bit Feb 01 04:38:22 not gles Feb 01 04:39:24 i just mean, the state of the gui toolkits for lisp is pathetic, i would be cool if i could make elementary apps in lisp Feb 01 04:39:39 ooh wait Feb 01 04:39:40 no that isnt Feb 01 04:40:48 PuffTheMagic: ifxed. Feb 01 04:40:49 fixed Feb 01 04:41:08 was desktop gl stuff that crept into the general stuff that should have been ifdeffed Feb 01 04:41:25 * raster has no interest in lithp Feb 01 04:41:36 hows it goin in WebOS land? Feb 01 04:41:49 anyone else notice that brighthouse has stepped their game up? Feb 01 04:41:59 cryptk|work: slow, i have all this non webos work to do these days Feb 01 04:42:29 PuffTheMagic: does that mean that Real Life > WebOS!!! Feb 01 04:51:01 cryptk|work: how so? Feb 01 04:51:17 that is basically what PuffTheMagic said, lol Feb 01 04:51:23 by releasing more apps that I'm never going to buy? Feb 01 04:51:25 or are you talking about brighthouse Feb 01 04:51:30 bh Feb 01 04:51:38 they have quotes apps... recipie apps... Feb 01 04:51:51 All of which is free with a simple google search :D Feb 01 04:51:54 so f them Feb 01 04:51:58 they are venturing out of their normal crAPPs and moving into new forms of crAPPs Feb 01 04:52:19 when will they make a "Brighthouse Labs App lister" app? Feb 01 04:52:25 one for each category of apps they have. Feb 01 04:52:34 ird: lol Feb 01 04:52:55 when will preware let me filter that crap out Feb 01 04:53:09 cryptk|work :^that is what i want Feb 01 04:53:14 It does, disable the palm feed :p Feb 01 04:53:21 a Brighthouse Labs Sports App Lister and a Brighthouse Labs Reference App Lister etc Feb 01 04:53:23 I just have the web and beta feeds on in preware. Feb 01 04:53:37 well aside from the other homebrew/patch feeds. Feb 01 04:53:51 if Brighthouse made preware it would be 27 apps Feb 01 04:53:55 there should be a way to blacklist package id's Feb 01 04:53:57 me too but i would turn app catalog on if i could filter by maker Feb 01 04:54:00 I want the catalog feed (so I can see all my apps that need updates in one place), but I want to be able to filter out certain app vendors Feb 01 04:54:09 like brighthouse... dijit... probably a couple others Feb 01 04:54:31 syncing my fb and google accounts is taking forever... Feb 01 04:54:43 cryptk|work: I want a whitelist app where homebrew people can tell me which apps don't suck Feb 01 04:54:49 then I'll have a nice one page list Feb 01 04:54:57 destinal-home: i can do that with the C service Feb 01 04:55:05 PuffTheMagic: :) Feb 01 04:55:09 Updating app catalog apps directly from preware, now that would be awesome. Feb 01 04:55:14 PuffTheMagic: and inotify? :p Feb 01 04:55:19 naa Feb 01 04:55:30 just pass the whitelist/blackist as an arg Feb 01 04:55:35 and i can filter the output Feb 01 04:55:37 I was joking... Feb 01 04:55:55 PuffTheMagic: even better still we should have some kind of rating forum with metamoderation Feb 01 04:56:10 and people can rate catalog and homebrew package id's Feb 01 04:56:20 destinal-home: what about a "List of complaints about brighthouse labs" app? Feb 01 04:56:32 They could drag that out into about 37 apps. Feb 01 04:56:36 yeah totally Feb 01 04:56:41 destinal-home: well jason can export the 5-star rating from the the drupal site Feb 01 04:56:46 and put that in the feed Feb 01 04:56:58 a rating system in preware Feb 01 04:57:00 which would give preware the ability to sort on rating Feb 01 04:57:01 PuffTheMagic: mainly I want third party ratings on store apps Feb 01 04:57:04 and you can set a threshold Feb 01 04:57:05 s/store/catalog Feb 01 04:57:17 only show me apps higher than this rating Feb 01 04:57:20 since the catalog is a wasteland Feb 01 04:57:28 destinal-home: well besides precentral where else would you want to pull ratings from? Feb 01 04:57:29 ...why is the app catalog downloading all my apps again? Feb 01 04:57:34 maybe like slashdot where people can vote -1 spam Feb 01 04:57:36 They're already installed and the newest version -.- Feb 01 04:58:02 PuffTheMagic: I don't really trust precentral either :P Feb 01 04:58:07 destinal-home: well that would get a little complex Feb 01 04:58:26 basically I want the oil rating Feb 01 04:58:27 Why not just have an option in preware to blacklist a vendor? Feb 01 04:58:54 ird: that can be done when we go C Feb 01 04:59:04 but since oil won't go through all of them I want to rate the raters and trust good raters Feb 01 04:59:17 someone could hire oil to rate them though Feb 01 04:59:18 PuffTheMagic: why can't it be done now? Feb 01 04:59:23 that would be fine with me Feb 01 04:59:39 basically I don't want mob judgement Feb 01 04:59:50 destinal-home: well i mean we could make a webos ratings website/sytem/thing Feb 01 05:00:25 destinal-home: that is why you should be able to set your own threshold Feb 01 05:00:53 maybe I could ignore the rating of anyone who rated this stupid app above 3 Feb 01 05:01:00 or we could do real metamoderation somehow Feb 01 05:01:25 destinal-home: you are making it too complicated... Feb 01 05:01:30 lets just go with a blacklist Feb 01 05:01:31 lol Feb 01 05:01:32 because a true democracy bites Feb 01 05:02:02 cryptk|work: a blacklist would be fine but then how do I find good apps from average ones? Feb 01 05:02:16 again, assuming I distrust the average rater Feb 01 05:02:32 nonono... blacklist vendors Feb 01 05:02:39 just let you be able to blacklist vendors Feb 01 05:02:41 not raters Feb 01 05:02:46 cryptk|work: right, but then how do I find good from average Feb 01 05:02:51 these are 2 different ideas Feb 01 05:02:51 I submit you the question Feb 01 05:02:57 the rating system would be too complicated if you wanted to tie it into filtering also Feb 01 05:02:59 which have nothing to do with each other Feb 01 05:03:08 PuffTheMagic: true. Feb 01 05:03:26 PuffTheMagic: and at least blacklisting vendors would eliminate the spam Feb 01 05:03:31 both can coexist Feb 01 05:03:32 which would be a great start Feb 01 05:04:23 we can't maintain the blacklist though, that has to be done by the user, so it has to be made easy Feb 01 05:04:51 all kinds of political problems in maintaining a blacklist, people come at you for censorship and libel etc Feb 01 05:05:07 right Feb 01 05:06:26 I think the slide and a big red "filter out" button Feb 01 05:07:00 or "remove from list" Feb 01 05:07:11 then it would prompt you for individual app or vendor Feb 01 05:07:16 i think it should be like irc bans Feb 01 05:07:41 or regex :D Feb 01 05:07:51 sure, give regex as an advanced option, do both Feb 01 05:08:03 where the remove option just makes a regex Feb 01 05:08:06 for you Feb 01 05:09:00 could just be a simple list of id prefixes Feb 01 05:09:14 where a prefix could be as small or large as someone wants Feb 01 05:09:32 including being a complete package Feb 01 05:09:55 then we can do a simple ifBeginsWith() Feb 01 05:12:12 I can see it now... I want to filter an app vendor so I put in something like "/^(([a-f0-9]{32})+([a-zA-Z0-9=]{{$i}})?)+$/" Feb 01 05:12:15 lol Feb 01 05:12:49 yeah regex is a terrible idea Feb 01 05:13:35 just use regular text, but allow wildcards Feb 01 05:13:38 there ya go Feb 01 05:13:47 so i can filter brighthouse* Feb 01 05:14:07 well do understand what i was getting with the prefix Feb 01 05:14:08 and it would filter brighthouse labs, brighthouse crappvendor, or anything else that has brighthouse in it Feb 01 05:14:23 what is the packageid of the brighthouse apps? Feb 01 05:14:45 don't know Feb 01 05:14:46 cryptk|work: that regex is insane, regex works just like wildcard if you do .*something.* Feb 01 05:15:13 destinal-home: yeah, I intentionally came up with a complicated one for sarcasm, lol Feb 01 05:15:28 lol Feb 01 05:15:44 my ass hurts soo bad Feb 01 05:15:50 idk if its a pulled glute Feb 01 05:15:56 or a lower back thing Feb 01 05:16:07 ever since i went sleddding a month ago Feb 01 05:18:01 that sucks. I'd definitely get a medical opinion, if it's a torn ligament it could cause serious long term issues Feb 01 05:19:00 [23:15] <+PuffTheMagic> my ass hurts soo bad Feb 01 05:19:02 TMFI!!! Feb 01 05:19:09 cryptk|work: yeah, if only infobot was here for the quote :) Feb 01 05:19:14 * dtzWill comes outta the woodwork Feb 01 05:19:26 dtzWill is a termite Feb 01 05:19:38 where is infobot? Feb 01 05:19:42 ~~~~ Feb 01 05:19:48 is it having issues with ircdseven? Feb 01 05:20:12 no idea, i was pm'ing it earlier to figure out how to get puff quoted :) Feb 01 05:20:20 (it's not online at all) Feb 01 05:21:43 arg Feb 01 05:21:43 So I got battle of forli.. Feb 01 05:21:43 now how the hell do i play it... Feb 01 05:21:45 PuffTheMagic: oh, and your glute problem is probably from those pants you tried to fit into :D Feb 01 05:21:52 PuffTheMagic: the package ID for brighthouse all starts with com.brightbouselabs.* Feb 01 05:22:06 PuffTheMagic: the package ID for brighthouse all starts with com.brighthouselabs.* rather Feb 01 05:22:58 zsoc|away: I think there is a much more obvious explination for PuffTheMagic's ass problem Feb 01 05:24:11 cryptk|work: of course, his turds are too big. Feb 01 05:24:17 cryptk|work: i try to avoid obvious, especially while i'm |away Feb 01 05:24:22 ird... still more obvious... but closer Feb 01 05:24:33 maybe he sits on it too much? Feb 01 05:24:44 zsoc|away: quite the connundrum... it says away, and yet you are typing, lol Feb 01 05:25:23 anyone here work on freetether? Feb 01 05:25:55 his ass hurts, I believe. Feb 01 05:26:00 I am just curious why it is still in the testing feed... what is wrong with it? Feb 01 05:31:59 xorg: uh, why would you want to access a dropbox on a pre via a windows PC with a windows file share on it? Feb 01 05:32:49 Any kind of research is cool, but I'm sure there's some kind of goal or reason I'm missing Feb 01 05:43:39 destinal-home he's made a bi-directional auto-backup utility. Feb 01 05:44:20 ah. still, dropbox via a cifs to a windows PC? *cringes* Feb 01 05:45:15 I think rod's suggestion of ubuntu one is the way to go Feb 01 05:45:28 but more research is needed for someone to understand exactly how that works Feb 01 05:45:59 destinal-home: the majority of people use windows so it would make sense that the majority of pre owners use windows Feb 01 05:46:24 cryptk|work: still, direct access would be very preferable Feb 01 05:46:31 JayCanuck: has anyone ever told you about the problems with the Repair Utility on Linux? Feb 01 05:46:32 too many moving parts = more breakage Feb 01 05:46:49 destinal-home: that is true, but it would cater to the majority versus the minority Feb 01 05:47:04 ubuntu one would be 100% of everyone Feb 01 05:47:12 you don't have to run linux Feb 01 05:47:36 what is ubuntu one?????? Feb 01 05:47:38 they would have to install a virtual machine to do it instead of jsut having it native in windows though Feb 01 05:47:45 cryptk I'm sure there are more than a few bugs, 2.0 is the next release and will be rennovated a lot Feb 01 05:47:55 Rick_work: its like dropbox but ubuntu-centric Feb 01 05:48:00 JayCanuck: ahh, good deal Feb 01 05:48:38 JayCanuck: it starts out working great, then after some time it starts erroring out on every file check... I can't remember the error though since I am not at home... Feb 01 05:48:39 JayCanuck any prediction about when 2.0 might debute? Feb 01 05:49:17 well, I'm finishing up wosqi 3.0 at the moment, then will be splitting time between repair utility 2.0 and internalz 1.0 Feb 01 05:49:21 cryptk|work: well there's a web interface too Feb 01 05:49:46 destinal-home: oooh, forgot about the web interface.... Feb 01 05:50:04 JayCanuck: so wosqi 3.0 in a few days? Feb 01 05:50:06 the main thing is, the pre could directly mount it, which would be nice Feb 01 05:50:08 sweet stuff Feb 01 05:50:21 cryptk, trying for a release tonight :) Feb 01 05:50:27 Rick_work: it's like dropbox but run by canonical. open source licensed client. Feb 01 05:50:43 (for linux at the moment) Feb 01 05:50:43 just testing outscenarios like post-webosdoctor patch restoration Feb 01 05:51:22 https://one.ubuntu.com/ Feb 01 05:51:23 so destinal-home theoretically we could write a direct pre-to-canonical-dropboxclone client, and manage the files via a web interface without screwing with a VM on windows? Feb 01 05:51:30 yup Feb 01 05:53:11 it's got built in support for contacts and notes also (and apparently music, soon) which would be handy Feb 01 05:53:16 what I would really like is for a service on the phone that can watch for when I connect the phone to my desktop... if it is, then mount the music folder on my computer, empty out a folder on the USB partition and copy over some random songs Feb 01 05:53:31 so besides just a raw backup, which we'd also want to do, it could add other stuff Feb 01 06:00:38 irc on the pre Feb 01 06:00:55 showing off for an iphone friend Feb 01 06:10:07 sorry Feb 01 06:10:09 you guys are being booring tonight... Feb 01 06:10:11 no one replied.... Feb 01 06:10:20 We should say something scathing about iphones. Feb 01 06:10:29 oh, I was just showing him wirc Feb 01 06:10:33 right Feb 01 06:10:41 since I had it up on the desktop... I brought it up on the pre also Feb 01 06:10:41 Iphones don't have cool apps like wirc Feb 01 06:10:45 yeah Feb 01 06:10:45 or gdial pro Feb 01 06:10:51 that's true also Feb 01 06:11:10 Nothing like preware on the iphone Feb 01 06:11:19 so the iPhone has something that is similar to the pre's cards... Feb 01 06:11:20 unless you've been to cydia ..... Feb 01 06:11:39 seems like it is pseudo-multitasking Feb 01 06:11:46 I think it uses save states Feb 01 06:11:55 not actually running multiple apps Feb 01 06:11:56 right Feb 01 06:12:01 the app behind is NOT RUNNING Feb 01 06:12:05 it's paused. Feb 01 06:12:12 yeah, it is in standby kinda Feb 01 06:14:24 where did destinal-home go? Feb 01 06:15:33 no clue Feb 01 06:15:59 heh, multitasking Feb 01 06:16:25 hey, I said pseudo-multitasking Feb 01 06:17:08 cryptk|work: that's what I get for not reading the scrollback. I meant that _I_ was multitasking :) Feb 01 06:17:27 ahhh, hahahaha Feb 01 06:17:29 like, semi-here Feb 01 06:18:41 I had a hard drive failure on my main home workstation weeks ago and I've been running on my laptop since. toinight I just finally rebuilt said desktop with windows 7 on a new drive Feb 01 06:19:04 zsoc|away: im glad you enjoy discssing my ass Feb 01 06:19:22 I tend to forget how much customization goes into a usable windows environment for me Feb 01 06:19:33 (the laptop is ubuntu) Feb 01 06:22:00 destinal-home: windows??? eeew... Feb 01 06:22:07 I bet you are a closet iPhone user too..... Feb 01 06:23:01 cryptk|work: EX iphone user Feb 01 06:23:17 (and dev, but never with apple's sdk) Feb 01 06:23:18 destinal-home: reformed iphone user Feb 01 06:23:28 you paid your debt for it... you are a free man now, lol Feb 01 06:24:03 back when men were real men and real iphone app developers made real apps with customized gcc based toolchains on linux workstations :) Feb 01 06:24:36 when apple was like, oh yeah, you can make apps for the iphone. we call them web apps Feb 01 06:25:42 * destinal-home is still bitter about that Feb 01 06:26:23 lol Feb 01 06:28:09 destinal-home: haha i also have fond memories using cross-compiling llvm goodness Feb 01 06:28:22 errr i mean i don't know anything about iphones Feb 01 06:28:28 o.o;; Feb 01 06:28:28 lol Feb 01 06:30:05 if I'd have been smart I would have made junk apps for the early app store and gotten rich :P Feb 01 06:30:29 hahaha Feb 01 06:30:35 brighthouse envy? Feb 01 06:30:57 thing is, land grab is over, I don't think it would work on the pre Feb 01 06:30:58 just release the same thing, but cheaper, lol Feb 01 06:31:16 I could be wrong though Feb 01 06:31:21 I have thought about making the same apps as brighthouse... selling them for twice as much, but making them all in one... Feb 01 06:31:33 lol call it ULTIMATE edition Feb 01 06:31:33 you get my baseball app... you get ALL the teams Feb 01 06:31:36 haha Feb 01 06:31:52 you pay me twice the amount as brighthouse, but you get every team in one app... Feb 01 06:32:11 and open source it so that smart people can get it for free Feb 01 06:32:30 they just gotta install it manually Feb 01 06:32:57 make my vendor ID dimhouse Feb 01 06:33:01 or brighterhouse Feb 01 06:34:00 glowshack Feb 01 06:34:14 come out with a wallpaper app, have it have multiple categories of wallpapers Feb 01 06:34:25 make that vendor id digit instead of dijit Feb 01 06:34:32 again sell for twice as much Feb 01 06:34:49 then get busted with trademark law :( Feb 01 06:34:49 but have it have lots and lots of categories instead of one category per app Feb 01 06:34:56 flee with cash before trial Feb 01 06:35:05 then I will just do wallpapers of my wifes photos Feb 01 06:35:12 she is a photographer Feb 01 06:35:19 we have model releases for all of them Feb 01 06:35:27 we can use them for whatever the hell we want Feb 01 06:37:26 brb Feb 01 06:44:59 back Feb 01 06:45:57 Hey guys, I made a forum post about ogg vorbis on the Pre, and 2sslow sent me here..so I guess that's my cue to throw this one out there: Feb 01 06:46:37 Any work being done on getting ogg vorbis (or other open source audio codecs) running on WebOS? Feb 01 06:47:59 seems like one ought to be able to replace the WebOS native gstreamer libraries with others that have better codec support Feb 01 06:48:33 (I'm NOT a developer...so I imagine that's way easier said than done, just wondering) Feb 01 06:49:20 Bazirker: be patient its a little slow in here tonight Feb 01 06:50:17 Bazirker: it's possible to play vorbis via the command line. Feb 01 06:50:34 but getting palms file indexer to see the files and play them in the music app is another problem. Feb 01 06:50:47 interesting Feb 01 06:50:55 and there isn't much that can be done to fix this besides writing a new service and music app Feb 01 06:51:50 if a service was written, couldn't an app like music player remix take advantage of it? or NAN player? Feb 01 06:52:22 If they were written to use the new file indexer service instead of Palm's built in API, I believe so. Feb 01 06:52:44 You could always use Ampache. Feb 01 06:52:55 But my experience with it is rather bad. Feb 01 06:53:09 mine too Feb 01 06:53:33 I could only get transcoding to work at low quality, much lower than I would want to listen to. Feb 01 06:53:37 But for mp3s it works great. Feb 01 06:53:59 it's been awhile since I tried it, maybe I'll have another look' Feb 01 06:54:20 I could get it to transcode at decent quality, but it would only play the first 30 seconds or so of a song. Feb 01 06:54:36 If you have any luck let me know :) Feb 01 06:54:59 any idea who I might be able to talk to who would be willing and able to write such a service? I don't know what the time requirement would be, but if it was reasonable, I might be able to make a nice donation Feb 01 06:55:51 Not sure. Feb 01 06:56:08 zsoc did the gstreamer service for precorder, but I'm not sure how interested he would be in this. Feb 01 06:56:50 I think he has better things he's working on...isn't he involved with the GBA emulator? Feb 01 06:56:59 no, that is dtzWill Feb 01 06:57:08 I'll shoot him a PM on precentral just to check Feb 01 06:57:11 zsoc did a skin for it Feb 01 06:57:16 ah gotcha Feb 01 06:57:16 but I think that is all he did Feb 01 06:57:26 dtzWill: is pretty much the lead (and only) guy Feb 01 06:57:41 glad I'm not totally making up something with zsoc and GBA :) Feb 01 06:57:53 haha Feb 01 06:58:04 bbiab Feb 01 06:58:16 If I had any idea how to do it, I would give it a shot. Feb 01 06:58:22 But I don't have the time to learn. Feb 01 06:58:42 I've been wanting to get back into programming stuff. But I haven't done anything in so long... Feb 01 06:59:23 I program, but almost entirely in matlab...dunno anything about code if it isn't computational Feb 01 07:00:21 I was really into web development a few years ago. Feb 01 07:00:27 xhtml, css, php.. Feb 01 07:00:29 the like Feb 01 07:00:56 But then real life took over and I didn't have time for any of it. Feb 01 07:01:10 it looks like ampachpre has been updated since I last tried it, now it's ampache mobile Feb 01 07:01:15 I'll have to give it a shot Feb 01 07:02:54 Any programmers in house tonight? Feb 01 07:03:04 make that pdk programmers Feb 01 07:04:39 anybody here at all even? Feb 01 07:08:14 in and out Feb 01 07:08:21 not much patience there. Feb 01 07:08:30 I was thinking exact same thing Feb 01 07:08:52 Bazirker: there are two ampache apps. Feb 01 07:09:10 Ampache Pre and Ampache Mobile Feb 01 07:09:22 afaik Feb 01 07:09:45 Yeah I just booted up preware and noticed that Feb 01 07:10:19 they say they stream audio...can it not play off of local files? Feb 01 07:11:59 Why would you want it to play local files? Feb 01 07:12:06 The whole point is to stream music from your PC Feb 01 07:12:23 I'm flying cross-country in a week Feb 01 07:12:24 Hence AmPACHE Feb 01 07:12:52 yeah...I hadn't picked up on that till now reading up on it Feb 01 07:13:02 I don't use my Pre for music anymore.. except Pandora, and apps like that. Feb 01 07:13:14 Until Nanplayer is released at least. Feb 01 07:13:29 I'm hoping to only bring one music device with me, I'm trying to travel super light Feb 01 07:13:30 The music player app (and remix) are so slow when you have more than a gig of music. Feb 01 07:13:38 I want VLC on the pre, lol Feb 01 07:14:02 I'll prolly just carry my Cowon D2 with me, it's not really that big anyway lol Feb 01 07:14:17 remix isn't too bad on my Pre Feb 01 07:14:27 I tend to listen to an album at a time Feb 01 07:14:36 so not a whole of jumping around Feb 01 07:14:40 Bazirker: throw a gig or 2 of music on the phone, then try it Feb 01 07:14:50 I always have several gigs Feb 01 07:15:11 I guess it is slow for browsing, I just deal since I usually hit play once and then leave it alone Feb 01 07:17:45 alright hittin the sack, later guys Feb 01 07:19:46 I also can't stand it getting stuck on the wrong song name, and playing the wrong song for a second or two at first. Feb 01 07:20:01 And the album art support is horrible. Feb 01 07:20:15 I prefer folder/cover.jpg to embedded in every file Feb 01 07:20:23 Embedding the cover in every file is a waste of space. Feb 01 07:45:03 evening al Feb 01 07:55:30 l Feb 01 07:55:47 hi Feb 01 07:57:00 hey Feb 01 07:57:22 wirc doesn't seem to remember my nick Feb 01 07:57:43 in preferences it's correct Feb 01 07:57:59 but when I connect it uses an old one Feb 01 07:58:23 firestrider is that webos irc client? Feb 01 07:58:26 and I have to go to the menu in the status channel to change nick Feb 01 07:58:39 dcordes yeah Feb 01 07:59:43 Hey Guys, anyone here compile and launch the GLES 1.1 3D cube demo? Feb 01 08:00:02 Terminal keeps telling me that my phone has no opengl support Feb 01 08:01:01 also has anyone experienced packages unable to load (continuous loop) in preware Feb 01 08:01:31 when you first start preware Feb 01 08:03:08 this might be a stupid question but it is possible to put webos 1.0 back on the phone Feb 01 08:03:21 just to see the speed differences Feb 01 08:04:00 sure, just use the 1.0 Doctor Feb 01 08:04:17 Indecom: what model do you have? Feb 01 08:04:48 rwhitby: what model of what? i have a pre, 1.3.5.1 Feb 01 08:05:02 for those who are interested in dropbox to pre, the install has been simplified... Feb 01 08:05:03 Indecom: did you load the gles libraries? Feb 01 08:05:07 pre plus? Feb 01 08:05:21 regular pre, how do i load gles libraries? Feb 01 08:05:25 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Dropbox_Syncing Feb 01 08:05:42 Indecom: they're in the staging area. you need to install the WIDK package, and then copy the libraries across Feb 01 08:05:55 i got the app to compile properly and all that, then placed it under media/internal Feb 01 08:06:06 haha i'm new to programming in linux, where is the staging area? Feb 01 08:06:31 from preware? Feb 01 08:06:39 what instructions are you following? Feb 01 08:06:49 I wonder if it's good to point to oe manual Feb 01 08:07:24 dcordes: do you know enough to get OE to use the Palm CS toolchain as an external toolchain? Feb 01 08:07:24 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/GLES_1.1_3D_Cube_Demo <-- the ones here but i compiled the app using these: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenGL_Triangle_of_Doom Feb 01 08:08:10 Indecom: the first code box on that second link shows the staging dir Feb 01 08:09:02 dcordes: I tried, and couldn't get OE to build glibc 2.5 compatible binaries, cause 2.5 seems to be broken in OE.dev branch (too old, no-one uses it any more) Feb 01 08:09:03 oh okay, so now what do i do? i've got the widk package installed on the pre, is that the package youre referring to? Feb 01 08:09:11 rwhitby I do not know much about palm. what's cs toolchain? Feb 01 08:09:40 codesourcery, the toolchain required to build binaries that are compatible with the palm libraries. Feb 01 08:10:30 dcordes: http://www.codesourcery.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/package1787/public/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/arm-2007q3-51-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2 Feb 01 08:12:03 okay i'm at the staging directory, and i gotta tell you i'm pretty lost, once i get this working though i'm sure it will be far easier for me in the future Feb 01 08:14:41 rwhitby is that a distro, pc linux? Feb 01 08:15:38 rwhitby: okay so i've installed the widk package onto the pre, and it says i need to mount and bind some things, how do i do this? like i mentioned i'm way linux noob, been windows user for the past 10+ years Feb 01 08:16:58 omg that opengl code gives me a headache... I'm never programming in c again lol Feb 01 08:17:08 2 classes are enough Feb 01 08:18:02 firestrider: you could always use the powervr sgx sdk instead lol Feb 01 08:19:11 dcordes: sorry, since you were suggesting the OE manual, I was hoping you knew how to use external cross-compilation toolchains with it. Feb 01 08:21:19 rwhitby are yu testing me? I don't know sorry. I use the OE built toolchains for verything cross :D Feb 01 08:21:33 rwhitby never used codesourcery Feb 01 08:23:27 I just noticed opensource.palm.com doesn't have glibc Feb 01 08:24:31 jacques: it's part of the cs toolchain, isn't it? Feb 01 08:25:17 they have binutils Feb 01 08:25:51 I guess if they didn't change anything at all it's OK Feb 01 08:28:27 Okay so i think i did something wrong because the triangle of doom compiled just fine, and runs perfectly on the device, however i cannot for the life of me figure out how to get the GLES 1.1 cube to run, its just telling me i have no opengl support on my phone when i launch it from terminal Feb 01 08:31:48 rwhitby what about configuring a different toolchain and overwrite it with thedesired (cs) one manually? Feb 01 08:31:56 I hope palm uses their pdk for their own apps Feb 01 08:32:17 I don't Feb 01 08:32:40 why? Feb 01 08:32:42 rather them spend their time invested in cleaning up webOS related quirks Feb 01 08:33:30 I think the phone is still relatively slow Feb 01 08:33:53 and the ui stutters a bit Feb 01 08:33:54 It's not a bad idea to have a html5 based basic UI Feb 01 08:34:03 that'll get better over time Feb 01 08:34:17 No need to "scrap" everything and start over while you're still on version 1 of your OS Feb 01 08:34:59 also, are you using a pre or pre plus? Feb 01 08:35:13 me, pre Feb 01 08:35:31 I don't think the pre plus is any faster tho Feb 01 08:35:49 it's not, but has more ram Feb 01 08:36:20 how will html5 get better over time Feb 01 08:37:57 android uses java in vm for their gui right Feb 01 08:38:39 not html5, how will webOS get better over time? cleaning up bugs, taking advantage of more hardware (ie: opengl could be used for some of the animations/drawing of stuff), just in general more optimisations. I'm not sure if the Pre uses v8 for javascript execution, but if it doesn't another idea etc. There's all sorts of stuff you can probably do Feb 01 08:39:52 On the Pre Plus (and future models) cache more data in memory when dealing with apps like calendar etc. You get the picture. Feb 01 08:40:06 well opengl requires their pdk :) Feb 01 08:40:19 no no no Feb 01 08:40:40 From everything I've read at least, even the current webOS build still isn't taking advantage natively of any opengl Feb 01 08:41:13 and some background stuff could use compiled c which is much faster than interpretted js/html/css Feb 01 08:42:34 you couldn't patch compiled c but you can patch js/html/css and that's the reason I love webOS Feb 01 08:46:13 well you can patch compiled C; it's just not particularly easy Feb 01 08:48:37 I wonder the difference between JIT'ed js and c, still big Feb 01 08:49:05 in terms of runtime performance? Feb 01 09:40:58 hello, my pre keeps dying overnight i can only think its something to do with the repeat notifications patch..but i had no notifications after i turned it on, any ideas why overnight pre would go from half battery to dead? i left nothing running on it 2 nights this has happened now Feb 01 09:42:04 What about mail and IM checking etc Feb 01 09:42:28 And if wifi is on turn that off Feb 01 09:46:40 it doesnt die in the day and i have wifi on all day Feb 01 09:46:46 it was ok the first 2 days i got it Feb 01 09:47:20 mail and im were on before before it started dying overnight Feb 01 09:49:19 if i uninstall repeat notifications i have a horrible feeling it wont uninstall right cos none of th other patches have Feb 01 09:53:00 is there a date for the new webos i know feb but has a date been announced Feb 01 10:01:57 I just got friggin k-lined... Feb 01 10:02:38 they accidentally k-lined all webchat users, lol Feb 01 10:05:06 lol, someone musta tried to k-line a single webchat user and noobed it up Feb 01 10:06:48 lolll ive seen that happen before Feb 01 11:19:25 they k-lined icculus.org last week cause they were blocking someone on an IP that was in the same range Feb 01 13:17:19 wtf there was a brighthouse flood of apps yesterday Feb 01 13:17:20 :S Feb 01 13:31:33 ,·shit my usb port is cracking Feb 01 13:31:45 is this a defect and my pre will be replaced for free? Feb 01 13:37:20 heyho Feb 01 13:37:25 bpadalino|work: ping Feb 01 13:37:34 hey Feb 01 13:37:37 hows it going ? Feb 01 13:37:45 that was lucky as i just woke up! Feb 01 13:37:56 bpadalino|work: hehe Feb 01 13:37:59 it's going great Feb 01 13:38:09 you're chipper for a monday :) Feb 01 13:38:10 even on msmcomm stuff :) Feb 01 13:38:40 I am on holiday :) Feb 01 13:38:48 oh very nice - i haven't been checkin the git repo, what has the news been ? Feb 01 13:38:51 only for three days but that's enough :) Feb 01 13:39:14 bpadalino|work: I got verified my pin :) Feb 01 13:39:36 i don't know what that means, but it sounds good :) Feb 01 13:39:40 so only some steps are missing to call out or handle incomming calls Feb 01 13:39:57 to bring up the GSM/CDMA modem Feb 01 13:40:08 you have to transmit your PIN to the modem Feb 01 13:40:08 oh very nice Feb 01 13:40:18 ah - cool! Feb 01 13:53:05 i may go to sprint store with my pre to get it replaced the crack iss orginating from usb port... it's like 2mm now or so but I don't want the crack to spread to the screen Feb 01 13:53:27 and ive had this pre since day 1 Feb 01 14:02:11 I had to swap my day 1 pre last week when the headset plug faileds catastrophically Feb 01 14:02:32 (bbits of brass tumbled out of it.. :( ) Feb 01 14:03:25 morphis -- congrats on the pin !!!! Feb 01 14:03:35 you're now very close aren't you? Feb 01 14:03:35 Rick_work, did u got refurb or new? Feb 01 14:03:40 refurb Feb 01 14:03:45 refurbs suck Feb 01 14:03:47 hmm Feb 01 14:03:50 but a 2nd gen Feb 01 14:03:57 and it's uber-nice. Feb 01 14:04:01 really, I'm happy Feb 01 14:04:01 oh got ya so no oreo :) Feb 01 14:04:06 nope Feb 01 14:04:19 i just got a small crack but I think they should replaced it Feb 01 14:04:24 didn't have any on my day1 either Feb 01 14:04:39 s/replaced/replace/ Feb 01 14:05:04 heading out of the house for office. Feb 01 14:05:06 bbiab Feb 01 14:07:55 Rick_work: very close to fully control the modem? Feb 01 15:44:43 ~seen egaudet Feb 01 15:45:02 ~ seen egaudet Feb 01 15:45:10 egaudet ping Feb 01 15:45:57 rick infobot is gone Feb 01 15:46:10 well how annoyinig is that.... Feb 01 15:46:21 not so much, since I don't use it :p Feb 01 15:46:26 but I guess to some it is. Feb 01 15:47:05 who is infobot's human caretaker? Feb 01 15:47:20 rwhitby Feb 01 15:47:40 I'm sure I have permission, but I don't know how to kick it. Feb 01 15:48:36 nt4cats: I think infobot is a freenode thing. Feb 01 15:48:51 they just did some work on the server saturday, so that's probably the culprit. Feb 01 16:26:38 posted info on how to do scheduled backups of /media/internal over wifi... Feb 01 16:26:46 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Backup_Media_Drive_over_WiFi Feb 01 16:27:03 cool. That app is getting pretty sophisticated. Feb 01 16:27:15 Now, I need to figure out how to write a gui front end for it. Feb 01 16:27:40 yeah, a front end would be great... i'm a sys programmer, not an app developer Feb 01 16:27:43 what service controls the hotplug usb stuff in linux (ubuntu 9.10) Feb 01 16:27:54 and Im an app guy Feb 01 16:28:09 * Rick_work shrugs. Feb 01 16:28:13 should be easier with PDK? Feb 01 16:28:56 no such thing as stdout and stdin to mojo apps. makes gui front ends hard. Feb 01 16:29:46 need to figure out some kind of messaging system between mojo and scripts Feb 01 16:29:56 yep Feb 01 16:30:06 an std in/out service. Feb 01 16:30:22 but that takes us back to the giant security hole that was com.app.commander Feb 01 16:31:05 i think once someone puts there phone in dev mode, they've submitted to opening it up. Feb 01 16:31:27 ok, xorg, my pre is refusing to allow me to ssh in and I can't figure out why. I have my key in my .ssh file on my desktop, I have my public key in the .ssh dir under home/root. Feb 01 16:31:31 what did I do wrong? Feb 01 16:31:51 what's the error? Feb 01 16:32:23 u using port 222? Feb 01 16:32:45 pass your stdin/stdout from service <-> mojo Feb 01 16:33:44 Rick_work: do you have your key on Pre /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Feb 01 16:34:08 ahhhh no Feb 01 16:34:18 I had it in home/root/.ssh Feb 01 16:34:21 my bad Feb 01 16:35:58 could stdin/out be done form the script side via lun-send to some data source within mojo? Feb 01 16:36:29 sure Feb 01 16:36:57 and it's actually done that way for storage drive mount/unmount debug messages Feb 01 16:37:08 Palm has a udev script that runs and at the end does a luna-send Feb 01 16:37:53 preware needs a "Queue for Install" option. Feb 01 16:38:10 So installing multiple patches wouldn't take forever.. Feb 01 16:38:45 if i could get the luna-send commands to access the data source, i could work up a messaging system... not familiar enough with the apis Feb 01 16:39:46 xorg_work: give me a little detail about what you want to do Feb 01 16:40:10 "Server refused our key. Feb 01 16:40:13 :-( Feb 01 16:40:36 Rick_work: from PC: novacom put file:///home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys < ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub Feb 01 16:40:42 form a sys programmer perspective, wand to send all output/grab input to/from some mojo data source so that linux scripts can talk to webos apps. Feb 01 16:40:58 egaudet its there. Feb 01 16:41:02 that's what I did. Feb 01 16:41:13 Rick_work: did you install open ssh via preware? Feb 01 16:41:24 egaudet yes. Feb 01 16:41:27 rick, can you access the pre via putty on windows? it auto creates the key... would confirm pre side is working. Feb 01 16:41:34 and yes I've rebooted six or seven times? Feb 01 16:41:58 xorg_work it's PUTTY that is saying the server is refusing my key Feb 01 16:42:05 well, putty AND winscp Feb 01 16:42:15 xorg_work: we can get the script <-> service <-> mojo for the specific purpose/scripts, but not for generic stuff that opens up security hole Feb 01 16:42:39 novacom put file:///home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys < ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub <--uhh, how would this work on windows? Feb 01 16:42:39 port 22 Feb 01 16:42:39 egaudet but why not open up an stdin stdout hole Feb 01 16:43:03 egaudet_work, ah, is there a wiki posting on what's working so far? Feb 01 16:43:05 VincentLaw it would work on windows just fine. Windows comes with novacom Feb 01 16:43:08 Rick_work: to be useful it has to pass to/from a script Feb 01 16:43:19 nodnod Feb 01 16:43:21 Rick_work: my problem isnt novacom, my problem is the paths he gave. Feb 01 16:43:26 nevermind. I'm distracted. Feb 01 16:43:41 we don't want to steal all stdin/stdout from the system Feb 01 16:43:54 VincentLaw ok, but I know that it's c:\users\rick\.ssh Feb 01 16:44:39 can you open a terminal and confirm that /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys exists AND has your key line all on one line, intact? Feb 01 16:46:37 cause to get mine on there, all I did was open a terminal, and: echo "the text of your entire ssh key" > /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Feb 01 16:48:59 ssh-rsa Feb 01 16:48:59 AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAQEApOrGwjW6GH4Ed5trcGht4CuXRIB190au+gSJFsMx/zvbRkNhBTOjGLSr44w5juixR0xTV250T3h3eJbtQk9huDfnxUDS9EI8ScmxQ3lE7/J+wJk/YCCZITkJl9hMuJDEDyIFL0JRcdM0eo3Q/lKFqDB0ajkjs5rbuq6MxRfwu+O6dmmgYuKh9Gefd2sQkJLC89j4ykV0IZLvH9f3s8UOjinDsLHlseKkhao8g9Fpx7vHpSNG5hwkPEj5FiIt4D3o1rTwAHRNH+wHE8JEbR9t0i3ycLQJceWriJwtlTYw5p90XPC3I97kuc+iGAUv88tgQtbQCuL4JN9pT4td5n3mcw== Feb 01 16:48:59 Rick@WILLIAMINA Feb 01 16:49:09 looks ok to me Feb 01 16:49:20 that's id_rsa.pub Feb 01 16:50:04 so do what I did, and echo it Feb 01 16:50:06 could I use rsync to backup my device, and then restore to a new one? Feb 01 16:50:10 make sure it's all on one line Feb 01 16:50:34 ird yes Feb 01 16:50:41 VincentLaw yes. all on one line Feb 01 16:50:48 well, no Feb 01 16:50:49 3 lines Feb 01 16:50:54 3 lines won't work Feb 01 16:50:55 ssh-rsa Feb 01 16:50:57 it has to be on 1 line Feb 01 16:50:57 key stuff Feb 01 16:51:00 Rick_work: with no problems? Feb 01 16:51:01 remove the newlines Feb 01 16:51:02 rick @ will. Feb 01 16:51:16 VincentLaw ok Feb 01 16:51:21 I'm planning on getting my pre replaced soon. Feb 01 16:52:55 no supported authentification methods available Feb 01 16:54:03 Having a generic message passing interface is OK for stdout. i.e. subscribe to this custom service's listen method, and then anyone can use the service's send method with your appid to get you a message Feb 01 16:55:05 Rick_work: you installed openssh, not dropbear, right? :/ Feb 01 16:55:21 Godsamaggafriggamuckingsumbitch Feb 01 16:55:29 hey, my pre just got stuck in an endless boot loop, any ideas before I attempt doctoring it (if that will even work as it is not fully on) Feb 01 16:55:37 Rick_work: lol what Feb 01 16:55:40 I've done this a zillion times. Feb 01 16:55:43 and I know it works. Feb 01 16:55:46 haha ok Feb 01 16:55:47 and I'm peeved. Feb 01 16:55:49 I'm just checking, sorry :p Feb 01 16:55:50 come to think of it, xorg_work yeah a message passing service would be pretty handy Feb 01 16:56:12 latta -- endless boot loop nodnod. I remember that. Feb 01 16:56:17 Hmmm what caused it????? Feb 01 16:56:39 haha, dunn, it just rebooted all the sudden, Feb 01 16:56:54 lucky you Feb 01 16:56:57 pull the battery, latta Feb 01 16:57:02 count to 10 Feb 01 16:57:04 and put it back in Feb 01 16:57:11 and now its at the palm boot up screen gets to where it should start glowing, then reboots to the same spot.........tried it Feb 01 16:57:14 if it still reboot loops, sounds like doctor time Feb 01 16:57:23 JSON errors :P Feb 01 16:57:29 novaterm in Feb 01 16:57:32 stop the LunaSysMGr Feb 01 16:57:35 start it in foreground Feb 01 16:57:39 see stdout/stderr of where it's failing Feb 01 16:58:21 how can i novaterm in w/o it on though Feb 01 16:58:38 novacomd comes up pretty quick .. Feb 01 16:59:20 alright cool ill try it, whats the command to stop luna? init... Feb 01 16:59:44 yeah you can novaterm without luna. Feb 01 16:59:47 stop LunaSysMgr Feb 01 16:59:53 then just run it Feb 01 16:59:55 LunaSysMgr Feb 01 17:00:40 if that doesn't work try opt-sym-r when you'r at the palm logo Feb 01 17:01:45 latta where you installing a theme????? Feb 01 17:02:03 nope, just listening to music Feb 01 17:02:35 because this sounds suspiciously like the quick_launch_bg.png file being corrupt thing Feb 01 17:02:40 which causes precisely that error. Feb 01 17:03:26 i believe i also had preware open, but wasn't doing anything @ the moment Feb 01 17:04:52 latta, you may have to doctor it. Feb 01 17:05:14 Now that the doctor doesn't blow away your apps, it's the simplest solution.... Feb 01 17:06:42 but if we can track down what caused it, that would be good Feb 01 17:09:25 yeah, but if latta wants to get his/her phone back doctor may be the way to go Feb 01 17:34:26 hmm novaterm just says "failed to connect to novacomd" am I supposed to be connecting to localhost? (i'm at work and first time novaterming on windows) Feb 01 17:34:47 yes to local host. Feb 01 17:35:00 did you use the correct novaterm? 32 or 64 bit? Feb 01 17:35:05 32 Feb 01 17:35:12 and your os is 32? Feb 01 17:35:52 yea lol, and i cd'd into the sdk/bin dir and launched novaterm, it was a new window, but i can't connect to it Feb 01 17:36:22 latta - at this point, it would be FAR easier to doctor the phone Feb 01 17:36:28 try unplugging and reconnecting USB plug Feb 01 17:37:14 gotta get novacomd working anyway after he doctors he needs to reinstall ipkgservice Feb 01 17:37:27 yep Feb 01 17:37:50 yeah ill try it, egaudet: i think its rebooting too quick, the windows pnp is going off like crazy every couple of seconds and wont let me "install new hardware" Feb 01 17:39:43 so you think the phone is actually rebooting not luna crashing Feb 01 17:39:47 (the latter is more likely) Feb 01 17:40:10 yeah Feb 01 17:40:18 doctor Feb 01 17:40:25 I wish someone would make a patch to add "Hide" in the opt-tap menu for apps. Feb 01 17:40:44 I would like the hide the help app, bluetooth app, regional settings, etc. Feb 01 17:40:47 I never use that stuff. Feb 01 17:40:53 I guess I could do it manually.. Feb 01 17:41:17 it'd be nice if it showed up in searches just not in the launcher Feb 01 17:41:44 ird, edit the appinfo.json for each one Feb 01 17:49:37 Rick_work: I know how, I was just hoping for an easier solution ;) Feb 01 17:49:47 I have to do it to the lame sprint bookmark app every time I doctor my phone. Feb 01 17:50:02 And I remember doing it back before we had patches in preware for the nascar app and stuff. Feb 01 17:50:45 make a script copy them out into relative paths in /media/internal and then when youdoctor copy the thing back Feb 01 17:55:39 hmm doctor isn't even working, it can't find the pre, says its not connected Feb 01 17:55:59 latta -- do you know the magic dance? Feb 01 17:56:27 more like the dance to sprint store Feb 01 17:56:56 latta - 1) Pull the battery 2) hold volume up 3) Plug in the USB whithout letting go of volume 4) Put the battery in 5) Let go volume 6) Run doctor Feb 01 17:57:07 after step 3, you will get a giant usb symbol. Feb 01 17:57:54 whoa Feb 01 18:00:44 working...thanks all Feb 01 18:01:35 that's the magic way. Works every time. Feb 01 18:05:38 speaking of magic, any ideas on getting a "new songs"playlist on pre music remix or original music app? so that it will have like the most recently added songs on the playlist? Feb 01 18:11:48 * jdferm makes a note of the magic trick Feb 01 18:30:28 egaudet_work: are you aware vk postinst script fails when /media/internal/virtual_keyboard already exists? Feb 01 18:32:37 yes Feb 01 18:32:56 not when it exists but when files it wants to install already exist Feb 01 18:33:24 I have to fix that in AUPT Feb 01 18:33:46 I haven't decided the best way yet Feb 01 18:34:17 the current way is probably best Feb 01 18:46:49 ipkg remove com*sprint ftw Feb 01 18:46:54 well Feb 01 18:47:01 er Feb 01 18:47:04 ipkg remove com*sprintportal ftw Feb 01 18:49:00 be careful with that Feb 01 18:49:49 any ipkg commands in root may cause repetitive updates issue Feb 01 18:52:11 anyone know why sshing into the pre would move so slow? Feb 01 18:52:45 pixelwix: over wireless? 3g? just plug in usb and use usbnet/novaterm Feb 01 18:52:52 wireless Feb 01 18:53:13 what else is your pre doing? what does top tell you ? Feb 01 18:53:35 ssh over wifi is weird sometimes. I've had it just stall out for no reason before, nothing running, nothing eating CPU Feb 01 18:53:51 its doing nothing this is of a fresh restart with nothing open Feb 01 18:54:00 pixelwix: I find that to get good performance out of it I have to generate some traffic (I think the pre is pretty agressive about power saving the wifi) Feb 01 18:54:11 pixelwix: so run pandora or something Feb 01 18:54:15 then ssh in over wifi Feb 01 18:55:12 pixelwix: for general development use you should really novaterm over usb or enable usbnet and ssh in over usb Feb 01 18:56:02 but the sprint portal is just a launch point Feb 01 18:56:16 you can remove /usr/luna/launchpoints/12022008 Feb 01 18:58:06 can i ssh with winscp over usb? Feb 01 19:00:31 if using usb why not just novaterm Feb 01 19:10:52 egaudet_work: I'll keep that in mind. Feb 01 19:10:53 Thanks Feb 01 19:11:16 The recurring update isn't really a problem for me though, since I can just block them. Feb 01 19:11:28 It is annoying having to do it though. Feb 01 19:12:41 pixelwix: you can also enable airplane mode and wifi stays on. Feb 01 19:14:19 it connect and when i change dirs it disconnects Feb 01 19:14:26 it unsuable Feb 01 19:14:49 i have slacker running on wifi Feb 01 19:14:55 still doing the same Feb 01 19:15:28 what disconnects? novaterm? Feb 01 19:15:30 what OS? Feb 01 19:16:01 pixelwix: over usbnet all that should be perfect Feb 01 19:16:40 can you point me to a step by step? Feb 01 19:17:20 why don't you just use novaterm? Feb 01 19:17:23 It's so easyl Feb 01 19:17:55 pixelwix: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Usbnet-setup Feb 01 19:18:14 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/USBnet_networking_setup Feb 01 19:23:07 hmm, so AUPT is awesome, it reinstalled all my preware apps after formatting, but previous to doctoring there were some patches that hadn't been aupt-enabled, and now I can't remove/update/install them (cuz they're not actually installed) Feb 01 19:23:45 why/how did you have non-aupt patches Feb 01 19:23:51 is there anyway to clear the cache or something so i can reinstall these patches Feb 01 19:24:40 well they were normal preware patches that I hadn't updated since the whole aupt thing happened Feb 01 19:25:01 ohh you never updated them Feb 01 19:25:15 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove Feb 01 19:25:32 well i was running into some trouble doing so and never got around to finishing it Feb 01 19:25:45 cool Feb 01 19:25:49 did you just finish doctoring and want to wipe all your patches? Feb 01 19:26:26 it's doctored now, some packages are there(aupt-enabled) and some not, i wouldn't mind starting fresh is that what that command does? Feb 01 19:26:59 well even though the packages are there, they aren't applied so you have to reinstall them anyway Feb 01 19:27:29 so I'd write down what patches you have/want installed, then wipe all the ipkg data Feb 01 19:27:42 ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove org.webosinternals.patches* Feb 01 19:27:42 ok nice Feb 01 19:38:27 egaudet_work: silly question, is there any reason the vk postinst sh can't just rm -rf /media/internal/virtual_keyboard? Feb 01 19:39:54 it's a generic postinst Feb 01 19:40:00 all patches use the same one Feb 01 19:40:42 it can depend on a "cleanup vkb usb" package though to do that Feb 01 19:41:18 which I'll probably whip up soon because I'm getting too many emails about this issue Feb 01 19:41:50 yeah. it actually had _me_ stumped for about 10 minutes, because the ipkg error is vague Feb 01 19:42:15 yea the extra file stuff was added in the waning hours before AUPT release Feb 01 19:42:42 isn't very log friendly :P Feb 01 19:43:01 egaudet_work: hehe Feb 01 19:43:22 But the -good- news is that it should only happen from APT to AUPT and never again Feb 01 19:48:36 woot, wosqi v3.0 is done :) Feb 01 19:49:03 hi all Feb 01 19:49:30 bbiab Feb 01 19:55:17 dependencies? :P Feb 01 19:56:52 guys i'm running windows 7 64bit where can i get usbnet drivers? Feb 01 19:57:24 guys i'm running windows 7 64bit where can i get usbnet drivers? Feb 01 19:58:32 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/USBnet_networking_setup#Windows_7_RC_Build_7100_.2864-bit.29 Feb 01 19:58:54 it's actually the first hit i think if you google for usbnet windows 7 Feb 01 19:59:19 i saw that already but that was not the case for me Feb 01 19:59:25 its still not working Feb 01 19:59:44 sounds like you know just about as much as we do by now .. Feb 01 19:59:47 feel free to update the wiki Feb 01 20:02:49 pixelwix: you don't need 'usbnet drivers'. they are built in Feb 01 20:03:11 you just need to go to your device manager and manually select the driver (the 'microsoft corporation' one) Feb 01 20:07:29 bpadalino|work: that wiki is quite inaccurate, now that I look at it lol Feb 01 20:07:49 please fix it :) Feb 01 20:08:30 bpadalino|work: I will when I get to a box other than my pre :) Feb 01 20:09:08 er, well the instructions I'm thinking of are in conjunction with using freetether, which everyone should be using anyway Feb 01 20:10:03 test Feb 01 20:10:07 hey ;-) Feb 01 20:11:29 Azthel: hi? Feb 01 20:11:49 there are 4 nicks in here that start with 'az' D: Feb 01 20:14:18 anyone know if the app catalog can be accessed in wifi mode? Feb 01 20:15:19 LoneStar99: of course Feb 01 20:16:11 much recommended way of doing it too Feb 01 20:16:30 faster, easier on battery, etc Feb 01 20:17:06 i can log into my palm profile in the web, but can not log into it on my pre. anyone know why that is? Feb 01 20:19:01 on pre it states wrong password... but on web "palm.com/palmprofile" it works... Feb 01 20:20:52 didn't know you could login there and change the e-mail Feb 01 20:21:00 good to know, since my current profile is somewhat corrupt. Feb 01 20:24:07 how does it sync, with the device password? Feb 01 20:43:03 i accidentally deleted pre-ware from my device, anyone know how to install via novaterm, i know it is eadsy, b/c I did it once but can not remember the way Feb 01 20:43:24 rtfm Feb 01 20:44:01 LoneStar99 go to the wiki, find preware, go all the way to the bottom Feb 01 20:44:07 follow those instructions there. Feb 01 20:45:35 RicK_work: thanks it was you that showed me how to install the first time =) Feb 01 20:47:14 Preware Bootstrap ?? Feb 01 20:47:55 yep Feb 01 20:49:48 en0x: rtfm is not helpful. Feb 01 20:50:05 Not everyone is a super genius like you ;) Feb 01 20:50:55 rtfm is just rude, unless it's a friend you're joking with. Or a person whom you've pointed to the documentation a dozen times already, and you're TRYING to be rude. :) Feb 01 20:51:17 ird, it's everything on wiki man how times u gonna go through sam stuff everyday Feb 01 20:51:25 several Feb 01 20:51:38 so u better write a book how to install preware Feb 01 20:51:42 and sell it on amazon Feb 01 20:51:47 working on it en0x Feb 01 20:51:50 why not just not say anything? Feb 01 20:51:55 rather than be a douche. Feb 01 20:52:12 and ppl will still come to you and ask you for help because they don;t know on what page the instructions are Feb 01 20:52:16 does greg roll's standalone preware installer still work? Feb 01 20:52:23 xorg, yes Feb 01 20:52:32 eventually we will get TFM to be so good you can just say that. but even then, "check the wiki, preware page" instead of RTFM. We make a real real real effort to be nice here. Feb 01 20:52:43 xorg yes and it's been updated to current recently Feb 01 20:52:50 Rick_work, i am nice Feb 01 20:52:58 Rick_work, i didn't send him to google ;D Feb 01 20:53:02 en0x good to know. Feb 01 20:53:11 Is it a known bug that in Preware if apps that need updates are from the Palm app catalog if you hit update it will say it is installed but do nothing? Feb 01 20:53:15 if you have mvapp or xorgtools installed, you can also install preware through terminal app Feb 01 20:53:16 besides, you should have said. rtfw Feb 01 20:53:32 TheInvsbleMan it's not exactly a known bug. Feb 01 20:53:38 it's a behavior that's hard to fix. Feb 01 20:53:49 some apps are in BOTH the app catalog and in the precentral feed. Feb 01 20:53:51 Ahh o0k then Feb 01 20:53:53 rtfw? is this something u came up with ird? Feb 01 20:54:01 is it not obvious what it means? Feb 01 20:54:06 I was just making sure it was a known thing Feb 01 20:54:20 oh Feb 01 20:54:22 FMLPro for example. Feb 01 20:54:25 read the f... wiki?:> Feb 01 20:54:27 :P Feb 01 20:54:38 TheInvsbleMan yes, and because some apps are in both places, the logic having to figure out where to send you is "complex" Feb 01 20:54:39 ird, kk i will use it next time ;) Feb 01 20:54:52 I see Feb 01 20:55:07 Rick_work: another reason I disable the catalog feed :) Feb 01 20:55:12 we are encouraging programmers when their app graduates to the catalog to either remove it from precentral, or to change the app name on precentral to .beta or soemthing Feb 01 20:55:15 ird me too. Feb 01 20:55:43 I don't know much about programming but couldn't you just tell Preware that if the app was downloaded from the Palm catalog then to open it in the normal catalog? Feb 01 20:55:50 erm Palm catalog Feb 01 20:56:05 TheInvsbleMan: but they still have the same com.blah.blah Feb 01 20:56:11 If I'm not mistaken. Feb 01 20:56:20 TheInvsbleMan what if the programmer has a much later version out in beta at precentral? That's what is causing the problem..... Feb 01 20:56:44 Couldn't you set an option to install beta version or not in Preware? Feb 01 20:56:57 just have it be in the preferences Feb 01 20:56:59 TheInvsbleMan: yes, just disable the app catalog feed. Feb 01 20:57:01 :p Feb 01 20:57:03 problem solved. Feb 01 20:57:04 I see Feb 01 20:57:38 I was just wondering if that feature could be implemented for someone who would want the app catalog feed on but updates to work properly Feb 01 20:57:47 but you see why we would like programmers to change the app id at PC when they move to the catalog..... Feb 01 20:57:50 I'm sure it will be solved later down the road. Feb 01 20:57:59 or not.. Feb 01 20:58:05 depending on if there is a way to solve it. Feb 01 20:58:51 I wish I had waited for xplane carrier :( Feb 01 20:59:01 I can't afford anymore $10 apps at the moment. Feb 01 20:59:23 and I want giant fighting robots! Feb 01 20:59:57 dunno who works on this stuff but i got 2 ideas for preware....a web-based preware search like project appetite, and a download queue for when you are going through doing a ton of patches at once Feb 01 21:00:26 As I said I don't know much about programming but couldn't the logic go something like... When an app is updated Preware checks the version of the app. It then checks the catalogs for new versions. If the "install beta apps" in turned on in the prefs it will install the latest version, if not it will install the release version. Feb 01 21:00:42 latta: I just suggested the very same thing this morning. Feb 01 21:00:45 the download queue, I mean. Feb 01 21:01:05 nice its a sweet idea, especially for those that just doctered Feb 01 21:01:13 yes. Feb 01 21:01:19 Yea, patching is a hassle after doctoring Feb 01 21:01:20 You could use WebOS quick install though. Feb 01 21:01:31 But I wouldn't suggest it. Feb 01 21:01:38 ahhh nice Feb 01 21:01:41 It always seems to break something for me. Feb 01 21:01:50 I use both Preware and WOSQI Feb 01 21:01:57 depending on what I am doing Feb 01 21:02:02 They both work great Feb 01 21:02:29 I stick with preware for everything, the only time I use WebOS quick install is when a patch gets broken and won't uninstall. Feb 01 21:02:39 And to install Preware. Feb 01 21:02:49 after that I don't touch it. Feb 01 21:02:55 AUPT patches should not be able to get "brokeN" Feb 01 21:03:04 Yea Preware is my main utility, I usually use WOSQI if something breaks or if I am doing stuff on my computer as well. It makes it easier to multi-task Feb 01 21:03:14 if an AUPT patch can't uninstall there is a valid reason or I need to fix the prerm Feb 01 21:03:26 Since AUPT I have not had any issues Feb 01 21:03:28 :) Feb 01 21:04:09 egaudet_work: I haven't broken them yet. Feb 01 21:04:13 But previously, I mean. Feb 01 21:05:36 k just making sure Feb 01 21:06:30 Rick_work: thanks Feb 01 21:08:38 aupt fixes patches even THROUGH DOCTORs Feb 01 21:11:16 So do we have an official date for 1.4 yet or is it still just rumors and such? Feb 01 21:13:12 "soon" Feb 01 21:13:39 If I had to guess, I would guess this week based on discussions I am not at liberty to comment on. Feb 01 21:13:47 I see Feb 01 21:13:54 Good stuff Feb 01 21:14:02 TheInvsbleMan: I don't think we ever have official dates. but in the past I've been plesantly surprised given my general pessimism Feb 01 21:14:08 can you update app-catalog apps from preware? or is there a way to turn off just the update notifications while still getting the download feeds Feb 01 21:17:30 cuz i like perusing the app-catalog downloads but not seeing them in the update feeds since you can't update them (at least i couldn't) Feb 01 21:18:36 egaudet_work: where are we on theming api? Feb 01 21:21:50 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Talk:Theme_Management_API Feb 01 21:22:28 still a lont ways away, and I'm thinking unionfs overlays are going to be the best (read: only) way to go Feb 01 21:22:39 s/lont/long/ Feb 01 21:22:39 egaudet_work meant: still a long ways away, and I'm thinking unionfs overlays are going to be the best (read: only) way to go Feb 01 21:22:58 I think zsoc's proposal should win Feb 01 21:24:49 installed preware using "Preware Bootstrap" instructions at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware Feb 01 21:25:48 hi! im so new at all this including this chat! i was wondering if someone could clarify a few things for me. i went crazy tweaking and installing patches when i found out how to do it. the problem is that i think it went too far & im now having all sorts of problems. this could take a while to explain, which is why im not including it just now until it is necessary. bottom line is that... Feb 01 21:25:50 ...ive been doing some research and theres so much out there & i dont know what could be my best or less complicated option to “fix” it. i came a cross a link to this chat on once of the sites i read on my research. could someone plz help? thx! Feb 01 21:25:54 after sh preware-bootstrap - is that it? can not seem to find it anywhere Feb 01 21:26:48 did it say it completed? Feb 01 21:27:16 egaudet_work: I suppose my quesion is, does it all still seem feasible? even the icons that are binary driven? Feb 01 21:27:32 er, images, like the quick launch wave etc Feb 01 21:27:49 keenah what's the problem you're having? Feb 01 21:28:19 zsoc: the "don't touch that file in that path" doesn't seem feesible Feb 01 21:28:34 the "don't touch palm stock files because we can overlay with unionfs-fuse" is though Feb 01 21:29:00 egaudet_work: got it Feb 01 21:29:05 Installing org.webosinternals.ipkgservice v.0.9.34: OK org.webosinternals.preware.0.9.34: OK rescanning Luna: Ok Feb 01 21:29:10 zsoc: but there are still a lot of things that CAN be done without touching files and using unionfs Feb 01 21:29:15 just can't get every last thing into it Feb 01 21:29:33 running org.webosinternals.ipkservice.postinst: OK Feb 01 21:29:37 and a lot of it is just so much easier with the overlay Feb 01 21:29:52 keenah -- You're more than welcome to ask questions, but I don't see a question in there. What can we do for you? Feb 01 21:30:15 thx so much rick! well there are a few things... i'll c if i can explain as easy and clear as possible... first off i installed the webos quick install and tweaked the phone on with it, i also installed the preware (with the luna manager) and installed patches on it. i didnt know i had to have the phone on developer off when using the preware|luna and now the patches are creating conflicts... Feb 01 21:30:17 ...on the phone maybe because of that. i cant update any patches or apps and i cant perform backups or copy the patches files from the quick install so i can reinstall them later without having to look for them again. i keep getting an error when i try doing this as instructed here at the very bottom: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Updating_webOS_Versions Feb 01 21:30:57 ... wow that doesn't make sense. Feb 01 21:31:09 keenah what version of webos quick install were you installing tweeks with? Feb 01 21:31:38 i also didnt know that i either use one or the other which is what i believe is creating so much conflict and i cant update apps or remove the ones that are not working. Feb 01 21:31:49 keenah also, having developer on or off has nothing to do with preware. Feb 01 21:31:57 i believe is the latest one 296 Feb 01 21:32:19 keenah -- right. well, first, you need to pick, tweaks or patches, never both. Feb 01 21:32:32 tweaks are the devil Feb 01 21:32:42 true enough zsoc Feb 01 21:33:02 keenah -- so at this point, I think your very very very best choice is to doctor the phone. Feb 01 21:33:50 since the current versions of doctor don't delete your catalog apps, and don't delete /media/internal your music and photos, it's not a big deal. Feb 01 21:34:12 thats about the best answer when you're in the state you're in. Feb 01 21:34:39 When J.R. gets webos-repair-utility brought up to currnet (soon) you could use that INSTEAD of doctoring, but it's not current and you can't. Feb 01 21:34:59 also J.R. pushed a new version of WOSQI today, 3.0 Feb 01 21:35:06 where is gett he error is when i try to follow as instructed on the link above: ipkg repository viewer | webos internals feed (pre), while pulling up the list i get a popup error that says: "error reading the package list" or something like that (cant remember the exact words) Feb 01 21:35:22 which I -think- did away with tweaks and went to patches. Feb 01 21:35:29 keenah -- doctor the phone. Feb 01 21:35:35 I would probably try EPR first Feb 01 21:35:47 egaudet_work that's your baby, I'll step aside. Feb 01 21:36:15 suggesting it just to make sure the ipkg data is clean too because after a doctor preware can't remove APT patches Feb 01 21:36:17 only AUPT Feb 01 21:36:33 sorry i was so busy writing the info for you i just read everything u wrote. Feb 01 21:37:07 keenah: what is your current status/immediate presenting problem Feb 01 21:37:17 whom ever want to test the first "app catalog search engine app: http://admin.work.lonestarbeer.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/ Feb 01 21:37:31 i read somewhere that if i was using preware the phone's dev mode needed to be off otherwise it could create conflicts or not work or installed incomplete... Feb 01 21:39:28 can there be a reason preware does not show up in listed apps, when novaterm states it is installed? Feb 01 21:39:45 well i found a solution from everything i read that was on the page i provided the link for above. so i was about to do that. run the EPR and go from there crossing my fingers that it helped. it seemed to be the easiest and least problematic as for loosing things etc Feb 01 21:40:19 Can someone help understand why optware wont install? http://webos.pastebin.com/m7b114db1 Feb 01 21:40:50 Updated http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Updating_webOS_Versions Feb 01 21:41:25 where can i find installed programs via shell? Feb 01 21:41:31 keenah: dev mode on/off does not matter for Preware Feb 01 21:42:41 LoneStar99: what does this offer? above and beyond the current apps Feb 01 21:42:52 LoneStar99: ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed Feb 01 21:43:13 egaudet_work: the search engine? Feb 01 21:43:22 Abyssul: why are you installing command line? Feb 01 21:43:30 instead of Preware Feb 01 21:43:45 LoneStar99: yes Feb 01 21:44:13 the search engine allows you to find apps via keyword, keywords, title etc... Feb 01 21:44:33 if some one is looking for a golf game they do not need the title etc... Feb 01 21:45:11 raster: hey, I heard about the new amoled touch screens samsung is making at 480x800 :D Feb 01 21:45:24 egaudet_work: I've always done command line Feb 01 21:45:29 it is a real search engine, not a title search Feb 01 21:45:47 excellent!! that had me all confused! u can find all sorts of things online (on the subject) and its hard to understand or pick! thx so much! so basically the problems i was having as for not being able to update the patches installed and when i tried to i would get an error on the ipkg log it all is because i was using tweaks AND patches at the same time? Feb 01 21:48:55 rick_work: what will i lose with the new dr (yet to be released by jason)? what do i need to back up or be careful of when im ready to do it? Feb 01 21:49:13 " ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed" brings up... org.webosinternals.iokservice - 0.9.34 Package Manager Service -- org,webosinternals.preware - 0.9.19 - Preware Feb 01 21:49:20 with the doctor you only lose your patches and tweaks. Feb 01 21:49:36 Jasons repair utility let's you pick and choose what you're reparing. Feb 01 21:50:22 but really keenah doctoring is quite safe these days Feb 01 21:51:07 Abyssul: I don't know the status of the bootstrap, I thought it was outdated Feb 01 21:51:49 which bootstrap? Feb 01 21:52:09 keenah: I agree with Rick, I suggest a doctor after EPR. (make sure NO patches show as installed via preware) Feb 01 21:52:27 make sure you are in a good state and then use the new AUPT patches should keep you safe into the future Feb 01 21:53:11 rick_work: that's perfect! i was always so scared of even thinking of running it by error and then lose everything as it used to do. but wint the EPR do the exact same now? also, does this mean that i have to go back to search and install every single one i had to put it back the way i wanted it & that i have to do this every time there is a webos update|upgrade. isnt there a way to save... Feb 01 21:53:15 ...the current ones i have so i can sort of reinstall them without having to go through the same from scratch each time? Feb 01 21:56:18 egaudet_work: thx for contributing as well! i appreciate it! im so new at all this and im still learning the lingo and terms. what did u mean by "make sure you are in a good state and then use the new AUPT patches should keep you safe into the future" Feb 01 21:56:54 oh sh-t just noticed everthing istalled in my emulator not device... Feb 01 21:57:21 how do i have it connect to device... Feb 01 21:57:43 LoneStar99: ? novacom? Feb 01 21:57:46 yeah Feb 01 21:57:56 egaudet: turn off emulator is easiest :) Feb 01 21:58:11 err wrong autocomplete Feb 01 21:58:13 ok - easy enough Feb 01 21:58:26 or disconnect and re-connect the device Feb 01 21:58:30 "last one" usually wins Feb 01 21:58:51 though you can also specify (see "palm-install --help" for details) Feb 01 21:59:11 isntead of "localhost" do i type something else? Feb 01 21:59:43 hmm. I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed you were talking about "palm-install". Feb 01 21:59:55 or novacom Feb 01 22:00:30 keenah: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/227163-aupt-auto-update-patch-technology.html Feb 01 22:00:47 novaterm... Feb 01 22:00:51 rick_work: is there a way to save the patches i already have installed to save time for when im done with EPR & dr or do i need to do the same every time? Feb 01 22:00:53 if i cant use tweaks if im using patches what do i do with the tweaks that dont have any patch for like the iphone fake one? Feb 01 22:00:57 you don't need to uninstall patches for OTA updates anymore with AUPT patches (all patches in webos-patches feed use AUPT) Feb 01 22:01:03 keenah no Feb 01 22:01:27 keenah there are reason's that we don't do the iphone fake patch. Feb 01 22:03:17 openssh shouldnt be this hard, with the commandline it was pretty simple... Feb 01 22:03:22 ok got it, the emulator was the culprit Feb 01 22:03:57 * lemketron is not sure the emulator would agree Feb 01 22:05:55 Abyssul: how is it hard? Feb 01 22:06:02 you install openssh from preware.... done Feb 01 22:06:06 I did Feb 01 22:06:20 Putty cant find it Feb 01 22:06:21 for key you throw your id_rsa.pub into root's authorized keys Feb 01 22:06:48 I used to not have to worry about keys... Feb 01 22:06:58 Putty would find it automatically and ask to auth it Feb 01 22:07:18 egaudet_work & rick_work: sorry, =( im just confused by all the instructions. Feb 01 22:07:19 so, unless im still missing something, basically we have to do the same from scratch every time, right? Feb 01 22:07:22 egaudet_work: whats wrong with the iphone fake? how would u b able to use google latitude without it? Feb 01 22:07:45 keenah you do NOT need to use iphone fake to get google lattitude. Feb 01 22:07:52 not not not. Feb 01 22:07:58 Use the link Feb 01 22:08:01 nodnodnod Feb 01 22:08:04 Works quite well Feb 01 22:08:08 keenah: you do not have to remove patches anymore, just use preware to update all after an update Feb 01 22:08:08 yep Feb 01 22:08:15 Until you wanna search the map for places Feb 01 22:08:20 Then it conflicts Feb 01 22:08:37 Abyssul: we stopped using root passwords and dropbear for security Feb 01 22:08:56 we recommend ssh keys and no root pw Feb 01 22:09:12 well I cant get it to work lol Feb 01 22:09:20 I have the id_rsa on my desktop Feb 01 22:09:24 but it has no extension Feb 01 22:11:49 rick_work: really? how does it work? what do i do to make it work without it? Feb 01 22:11:51 egaudet_work: ive been trying to run the updates with the preware but theres where i get the ipkg log error and i cant complete them. i cant remove them either. thats what i explained above and someone suggested to run the dr or the EPR i had mentioned i was going to run and after the dr. is this correct or did i get is all wrong? Feb 01 22:13:27 got a valid palm profile, but need to update the password on my pre, any suggestions? Feb 01 22:14:19 LoneStar99: Palm website? Feb 01 22:14:27 Abyssul: id_rsa is the private key, id_rsa.pub is the public Feb 01 22:14:33 you want the public key on your pre Feb 01 22:14:44 Do I generate my own public with puttygen? Feb 01 22:14:53 novacom put file:///home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys < C:/path/to/id_rsa.pub Feb 01 22:15:00 and then ssh in as user root Feb 01 22:15:17 if you haven't already generated your key then yes Feb 01 22:15:38 this makes no sense lol Feb 01 22:16:23 keenah: yes and this is the last time you have to do this, which is my point about AUPT. The patches were all updated with the AUPT release last week so that you won't have to remove them anymore. But you had the old style patches installed Feb 01 22:16:30 also basically, if im using preware i dont need to use webos quick install anymore, right? it would be either or. for the inexperienced like me preware would be the best opt, am i getting this? Feb 01 22:17:41 OHHHH i get it now, at least i think so! sorry! i told u i was new at this, pretty new! that's why i messed up! Feb 01 22:18:09 Abyssul: it makes perfect sense. keys are secure. Feb 01 22:18:32 zsoc: Na, I just dont understand how to set it up lol Feb 01 22:18:47 hello Feb 01 22:18:59 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH Feb 01 22:19:04 i did that Feb 01 22:19:46 ok so you have the auth keys on the pre and the id_rsa private key on your PC Feb 01 22:19:56 I guess Feb 01 22:20:01 Abyssul: yeah have a valid palm profile but need to update it on the phone palm.com/palmprofile Feb 01 22:20:02 now the last step is Feb 01 22:20:03 Move the secret key to your workstation and follow the terminal software's instructions on how to make this new secret key known to the terminal. Feb 01 22:20:09 sorry http://palm.com/palmprofile Feb 01 22:20:14 so whatever that means for Putty Feb 01 22:20:30 I assume just putting it in the standard .ssh folder would suffice Feb 01 22:20:38 But its a private key right? Feb 01 22:20:52 we need like a nova aware key generation gui Feb 01 22:21:11 Abyssul: put it in C:\user\you\.ssh\ Feb 01 22:21:13 but we don't need it that badly Feb 01 22:21:33 yes it's the private key that you need on your PC Feb 01 22:21:38 and the public key on the server Feb 01 22:21:49 for secure key authorization Feb 01 22:21:57 server being the pre Feb 01 22:22:22 so if you followed everything on that wiki, you should be able to just put the id_rsa into C:\user\windows-user\.ssh\ Feb 01 22:22:28 and then ssh in as root Feb 01 22:22:28 k Feb 01 22:22:56 can someone please direct me to guide on how to most safely and permanently overlock my pre to 600mhz? Feb 01 22:23:10 brenner: Dont do it is the safest Feb 01 22:23:18 well yes, i understand that Feb 01 22:24:02 by "most safely" i mean the way that gets the result with the least risk necessary, because as i understand it things like SmartReflex are more dangerous Feb 01 22:25:07 cant establish a connection, hostname 192.168.0.3, port 22 Feb 01 22:25:19 SSH type connection Feb 01 22:25:35 username root? Feb 01 22:26:41 eh? Feb 01 22:26:56 is there a username field in putty? Feb 01 22:27:09 downloaded the first use app, and everything may work now, need to restart Feb 01 22:27:16 The whole time I did this process it never asked me to setup a username Feb 01 22:27:51 put hostname as root@192.168.0.3 then Feb 01 22:28:19 "Disconnected: no supported auth methods available" when I type root as "login as:" Feb 01 22:28:50 anyone have a link to an overclocking guide? Feb 01 22:29:19 take windows and throw it out the window :P Feb 01 22:29:28 Haha Feb 01 22:29:56 i don't know putty so I can't really help with that, can you ssh via command line Feb 01 22:30:11 I used to be able to Feb 01 22:30:18 til something messed up along the lines Feb 01 22:30:28 and I tried to reinstall via command line Feb 01 22:30:34 and that error earlier appeared Feb 01 22:31:06 and you've since followed these steps precisely: Feb 01 22:31:08 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH Feb 01 22:31:19 aye Feb 01 22:31:36 novaterm in Feb 01 22:31:41 k Feb 01 22:31:44 and ls /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Feb 01 22:31:50 egaudet_work: i am still unclear as of what it is that i still need to do or what it is that i do not have to do anymore because of the apps upgrades. i really apologize for the confusion but i dont want to make it worse ! Feb 01 22:31:52 my note above: (ive been trying to run the updates with the preware but theres where i get the ipkg log error and i cant complete them. i cant remove them either. thats what i explained above and someone suggested to run the dr or the EPR i had mentioned i was going to run and after the dr. is this correct or did i get is all wrong?) Feb 01 22:31:54 just so im clear plz tell me if i got it right? i will read the page u sent me before doing anything first and i expect it will be alright. so, because i still have old style patches installed i still have to do the manual once last time, correct?: Feb 01 22:31:55 1. run the EPR Feb 01 22:31:57 2. run dr (once jason releases the latest update) Feb 01 22:31:59 3. reinstall the patches - NO tweaks - all via preware ONLY - no webos quick install Feb 01 22:32:00 4. everything should work fine after all of the above is completed Feb 01 22:32:02 did i miss anything? plz pardon my ignorance! Feb 01 22:32:03 should i remove the quick install or do i need it or will need it? Feb 01 22:32:09 You type fast Feb 01 22:32:43 egaudet_work: root@palm-webos-device:/# ls /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys ls /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Feb 01 22:32:55 2. dr is from palm, not from Jason and you do not need to wait Feb 01 22:33:17 rick suggested the Repair Utility once Jason updates that, as a solution that is one step down from the webos doctor. Feb 01 22:33:29 as it repairs stock files without doing the entire doctor Feb 01 22:33:41 nodnod -- but there's no point Feb 01 22:33:42 and all the rest is fine Feb 01 22:33:59 back when a doctor deleted EVERYTHING there was a need for it, but now, a doctor is quite safe. Feb 01 22:34:10 Those were the days Feb 01 22:34:39 back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, 3 months ago. Feb 01 22:34:51 internet time is regular time on speed. Feb 01 22:34:51 I gotta head home, Abyssul someone with more putty knowledge might be able to help further Feb 01 22:34:58 k Feb 01 22:35:00 or try starting over, reinstall openssh etc.. Feb 01 22:35:01 webOS time is internet time on meth Feb 01 22:35:24 bbl Feb 01 22:37:16 c what i mean? im so terrible at this! i thought i had read above that i should wait for the latest version to be released soon. sorry... Feb 01 22:37:18 where do i find the repair utility? whats its real name? will i find it on the same page u sent me earlier? Feb 01 22:40:37 which is the safe version of dr i should look for? how wil i know it is the safe one where i'll b okay using? Feb 01 22:40:58 rick_work: agree re the time distortion. the not deleting apps on doctor came with the media/internal switch (cryptofs) or earlier? Feb 01 22:42:12 same time Feb 01 22:42:42 god ssh sucks Feb 01 22:43:05 egaudet_work: thx to all for all the input and help! i just hope i got it right & i dont mess up! ive done that enough already! Feb 01 22:43:11 and /media/internal stopped getting wiped in like 131 I think Feb 01 22:44:34 used to be dr killed pics etc Feb 01 22:47:38 hey guys, i need some help Feb 01 22:47:41 hello Feb 01 22:47:44 HELLO Feb 01 22:47:46 i installed the patch Roam Only in Top Bar Feb 01 22:47:54 then uninstalled it, and now it's still there Feb 01 22:48:09 i can't reinstall it because i get some kind of error in IPKG log Feb 01 22:48:25 i need help too guys Feb 01 22:48:56 since i have updated to 1.3.5.1 on bell my preware doesn't show all my installed apps and i can't install apps from the apps store Feb 01 22:48:56 anyone know where i can get inotify-tools for arm... not in optware Feb 01 22:49:19 someone suggest i delte preware and reinstall it Feb 01 22:49:27 its stilld oing the same wthing Feb 01 22:49:30 any ideas? Feb 01 22:52:05 brenner - emergency patch repair Feb 01 22:52:24 entity - did you do an over-the-air update? Feb 01 22:53:32 Brenner -- run emergency patch repair out of preware. Feb 01 22:53:53 entity- was your update over-the-air or did you doctor? Feb 01 22:54:26 or, perhaps I'm talking to myself...... Feb 01 22:54:54 over the air Feb 01 22:58:25 entity- did you remove patches and themes before ota update? Feb 01 23:01:25 i dont use patches Feb 01 23:01:32 sorry, you're not Feb 01 23:01:47 emergency patch repair will undo all patches, though, yes? i suppose that's my only option? Feb 01 23:02:24 or themes Feb 01 23:02:27 just apps Feb 01 23:02:30 from preware Feb 01 23:02:36 the patches scare me Feb 01 23:03:09 rick_work: will EPR undo the manual overclock i did through terminal? Feb 01 23:03:17 no Feb 01 23:03:27 WRU might Feb 01 23:03:49 rw: you got any advice for me? Feb 01 23:03:52 entity-: patches done through Preware are awesome & tasty things. Themes are scary (until the webos-internals team unveils a hypothetical theming technology) Feb 01 23:04:23 en0x: EMH then ERU Feb 01 23:04:32 i remember when 1.3.5.1 did you make some kind of emergency migration Feb 01 23:04:36 oops, s/en0x/entity-/ Feb 01 23:04:57 i dont know those acronyms Feb 01 23:05:08 entity-: make sure you reinstall ipkgservice too Feb 01 23:05:09 nt4cats the hypothetical theming API is getting better. Feb 01 23:05:32 entity- emergency migration helper then emergency repair utility Feb 01 23:05:35 both in preware Feb 01 23:05:46 choose "list of everything" and type eme and they'll come right up Feb 01 23:05:48 run in that order? Feb 01 23:07:20 zsoc: samsung do indeed make amoleed screens... chances are the nexus one's amoled is from samsung Feb 01 23:08:23 hey rick and rw i dont see the emergency repair ulitiy just emergency reconstructions util Feb 01 23:08:32 raster: I was poking more at your magical device :) Feb 01 23:08:34 sorry Feb 01 23:08:39 that's what I ment entity- Feb 01 23:08:46 okay thanks Feb 01 23:09:09 is it important to run them right after each other? Feb 01 23:09:46 * nt4cats just pictured Toni Basil in the shower ... Feb 01 23:10:01 entity- just do it. :-) Feb 01 23:10:09 figure "moderately important." Feb 01 23:11:03 ran the first pone Feb 01 23:11:13 just starting up preware to grab the second Feb 01 23:12:06 you think 1.4 will hit soon? Feb 01 23:12:30 zsoc: yes. it's magical. most prototypes are :) Feb 01 23:13:31 Rick_work: BTW, I don't look after infobot - that is TimRiker. Feb 01 23:14:40 okay seocnd one is installed too Feb 01 23:14:42 what now? Feb 01 23:15:05 it sees everything now Feb 01 23:20:31 new in the app store: "Clear Card, $0.99, by Clear Water: An invisible card so you can always see your wallpaper." Feb 01 23:22:01 Abyssul: just use Preware to install optware now - the script you are using is deprecated (it says so at the top of the wiki page) Feb 01 23:22:07 jacques: I thought that sounded 100% crazy when I first saw it, but now I think it is only 94.5% crazy Feb 01 23:22:39 jacques: maybe 97.5% crazy Feb 01 23:23:44 its fixed Feb 01 23:23:46 thanks guys Feb 01 23:23:47 nt4cats: the crazy part is charging for it Feb 01 23:24:19 jacques: I have a nice picture of my kids at the Phillies game as my wallpaper. Say I'm listening to Pandora radio (on my Pre, of course). Pandora's UI blocks my kids. If I had a clear card I could listen to Pandora and still see my kids. Feb 01 23:24:38 jacques: I wouldn't pay for it ... but it isn't completely without use/merit. Feb 01 23:24:54 * zsoc makes a free one Feb 01 23:25:11 zsoc: publish it and call it "free and clear" Feb 01 23:25:51 interesting to see how he did it, actually Feb 01 23:26:03 it may need 2 cards, one opaque and 1 clear Feb 01 23:27:02 jacques: I didn't read the app's description, but I thought it sounded rediculous when I saw the listing in the app catalog but thought about the "listen to Pandora, see the kids" example while driving this afternoon. Feb 01 23:27:49 jacques: that "use case" may or may not be the app's intended purpose Feb 01 23:28:17 nt4cats: I agree it could be useful, I just can't wrap my mind around the mentality that wants to charge for something so simple Feb 01 23:28:58 jacques: if people will pay for it, then good for {whomever wrote the app} Feb 01 23:29:33 lovely netweather we're having today .... Feb 01 23:32:00 brenner when and how did you install/remove this top bar patch? Feb 01 23:36:49 sup Feb 01 23:48:17 anyone here use org-mode? i've found no mention of it in any forums, web or org-mode mailing lists in regard to webos Feb 01 23:51:25 dBsooner, ping Feb 01 23:54:19 makkk: what is org-mode? Feb 01 23:54:19 makkk: what's that? Feb 01 23:54:42 good question, I want to know too. Feb 01 23:55:32 i've just recently learned about it. its like a task manager, scheduling, note-taking, etc package for emacs. Feb 01 23:57:04 rwhitby: Of course, one has to use emacs to even be interested, but its pretty cool. What i'd be interested in is a way to have it integrage with the tasks/calendar in webos Feb 01 23:57:20 So there are about 25K users of Preware as far as I can reckon. Feb 01 23:58:01 destinal-pre: http://orgmode.org/ Feb 01 23:58:04 makkk link it to google calendar Feb 01 23:58:13 rwhitby: nice round number that Feb 01 23:58:34 jacques: that's unique IP addresses that downloaded Preware 0.9.18 Feb 01 23:58:37 Rick_work: have you done this? Is it supported? Feb 01 23:58:50 that was a suggestion Feb 01 23:59:00 jacques: there were 236K unique IP downloads of all Preware versions since September. Feb 01 23:59:15 and 1.9million unique IP accesses to the ipkg.preware.org feeds in that same period. Feb 01 23:59:33 Rick_work: I see. thanks. any way to integrate tasks? Feb 01 23:59:58 rwhitby: congrats on the wide adoption. Its awesome that you guys were there from the beginning Feb 02 00:01:01 anyone know any estimates from analysts on how many webOS devices have been sold? Feb 02 00:02:20 so, rwhitby I'm a little confused... 236K unique IP downloads of preware, and 25K copies of 0.9.18 suggests either an average downloads of 10 times each, or that our retention rate, assuming 5 downloads each, is about 50%. Feb 02 00:03:39 Rick_work: many different Preware versions over that time period Feb 02 00:03:43 rwhitby only number I've seen is 1.5M in the US by the end of '09. Feb 02 00:04:03 so if i update to the latest preware, it automatically includes aupt? Feb 02 00:04:14 jhojho: aupt is in the patches. preware doesn't change. Feb 02 00:04:58 Rick_work: so 1 in 60 webOS users have installed Preware Feb 02 00:05:00 i previously had patches installl. I suppose I just hit the "update all" button in preare now to update? Feb 02 00:05:21 jhojho: which instructions are you following? Feb 02 00:05:54 just reading the thread on precentral Feb 02 00:08:52 it should say what to do in the first post from egaudet Feb 02 00:10:51 so, 2% if that number's right rwhitby vs the 6 to 8 % of iphones which are jailbroken if saurik's numbers are right ..... Feb 02 00:11:01 but then, jailbreaking's been around a lot longer. Feb 02 00:12:37 Rick_work: I don't believe that's accurate Feb 02 00:12:52 so I just did a "make install" under scratchbox, and I cannot find where the files were actually installed Feb 02 00:12:54 have that conversation with Jay.... Feb 02 00:13:20 * Rick_work off to home Feb 02 00:14:26 make install what JackieRipper Feb 02 00:14:29 err jacques Feb 02 00:14:32 if I do the "ls" under scratchbox, it shows me the files, but I cannot find them otherwise Feb 02 00:14:52 egaudet: alsa-lib Feb 02 00:15:41 I don't understand the issue Feb 02 00:15:46 I probably did something wrong or missed a step but not sure what Feb 02 00:16:08 what does "ls under scratchbox" exactly mean Feb 02 00:16:08 egaudet: the files are supposed to be installed in staging, but they are not there Feb 02 00:16:37 sb2 -M /home/packages/palm/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7 ls -l /usr/include/alsa/sound Feb 02 00:17:07 that would show you your real /usr/include dir on your PC Feb 02 00:17:18 it's /usr/local that the staging maps to in sb2 env Feb 02 00:18:14 egaudet: OK thanks. that sounds like it Feb 02 00:18:38 however, it did not install the files into the real /usr/include - they are not there Feb 02 00:19:45 I just need to put --prefix=/usr/local in my configure step I guess I forgot that Feb 02 00:20:01 probably because a lot of configures default to /usr/local prefix Feb 02 00:22:49 yeah, most of them do and they all probably should Feb 02 00:23:07 but apparently that one is not Feb 02 00:25:39 I need a mobile i7 laptop Feb 02 00:40:47 ping egaudet Feb 02 00:40:55 pong Feb 02 00:41:12 I think I realized why you wanted aupt not backwards compatible Feb 02 00:42:00 the packages file would have duplicates Feb 02 00:42:09 think we could use something like synergy to get a wifi Mousey /touchpas going? Feb 02 00:42:13 ? Feb 02 00:42:21 it shouldn't Feb 02 00:42:38 since the same package id can't be installed without removing the first one Feb 02 00:42:38 pleast don't touchpas my wifi Feb 02 00:46:49 Mousey: why _wouldnt_ you want that? Feb 02 00:46:55 is the emergency repair the same as the EPR? Feb 02 00:47:16 it sounds dirty Feb 02 00:49:11 No seriously. why has no one got synergy working? I can probably do it tonight Feb 02 00:49:20 keenah: yes it was renamed Feb 02 00:50:15 hmmm.. so the question is synergy or synergy+... Feb 02 00:50:46 rick_work: if ur back online - u said that i dont need tohave the iphone fake installed so the google latitude app works. how does it work without it? is there anything i need to do for it to work? Feb 02 00:50:47 anybody, in case rick is offline already - can anyone answer my question above for rick? please? Feb 02 00:52:30 keenah, Emergency Patch Recovery was never renamed Feb 02 00:52:54 people just call it different things from time to time as it's referred to as EPR. Feb 02 00:53:04 the other thing is Jason's desktop utility which is named Repair Utility Feb 02 00:57:50 zsoc: thx so much! all of this is very confusing for me. i dont do much or have done much, (besides getting out of control installing here & there & messing it up), only the pretty basic stuff; however, evidently even the basic, due to lack of knowledge & ignorance, & assuming it was pretty simple if i just followed the instructions i also messed it up already. apparently i do need to... Feb 02 00:57:52 ...have some knowledge on the subject cuz following instructions blindly is not near 2 b enough... but u guys here r just great! im glad i found u. i hope its okay that i ask my 4 u somewhat dumb questions here, that they're not too dumb to get a reply =( Feb 02 00:58:46 not dumb... just... long. Feb 02 01:04:09 egaudet: re: EPR - oh... hmm.. this either totally contradicts zsoc's response when i asked above or i misunderstood his response. Feb 02 01:05:36 keenah: I thought it was renamed, but apparently I was mistaken :) Feb 02 01:05:49 zsoc: i know! long... i guess i just dont know how else to explain it without describing it as best i cant to avoid misunderstandings. how else would u ask it in a short more acceptable way? Feb 02 01:06:49 zsoc: that's ok. it happens... thx for trying to help tho Feb 02 01:08:21 yep, I'm pretty useless, thanks for rubbing it in Feb 02 01:08:33 * zsoc pets his + Feb 02 01:08:41 at least you still like me, +... Feb 02 01:09:47 oh, no, i didnt mean that at all!! i hope u r kiddin! thats not what i meant! please! i do appreciate ur wanting to help! Feb 02 01:10:05 keenah: :D Feb 02 01:12:30 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Feb 02 01:12:59 my life... is over Feb 02 01:13:41 I am but a amhaaret Feb 02 01:14:21 i installed the EPR about an hr ago and the screen still says 'palm' with the black background (like when rebooting). its been like that without changing. is it normal that it takes this long? Feb 02 01:23:17 keenah: is it pulsing at all? Feb 02 01:24:22 chrisa: it hasnt for a while (though not sure how long ago it stopped... is that a bad thing? did i screw up again? Feb 02 01:24:59 the phone is warm tho Feb 02 01:25:22 If it hasn't booted by now it likely isn't going to Feb 02 01:28:24 keenah: pull the battery Feb 02 01:28:41 chrisa: I think it's fair to say more than likely :> Feb 02 01:29:47 rwhitby, is EPR the only thing that uses RestartDevice flag right now? Feb 02 01:31:00 thats what i was afraid of... so should i force it? will it do something bad to the phone if i force it? how about trying the orange key|sym|r and see if it works? pulling out the battery in the middle of an action, always creeps me out... i think im gonna break it if i do that... Feb 02 01:31:20 pull it Feb 02 01:31:29 zsoc: I have no idea what EPR is doing! Feb 02 01:31:42 oh no!! Feb 02 01:31:49 Actually, I don't even know what EPR is Feb 02 01:31:50 it's not doing anything anymore, it's done and told preware to reboot the device Feb 02 01:33:31 the phone not starting has happened to me with the power down+toggle ringer x3. the orange sym r worked to re start Feb 02 01:34:26 so pulling out the battery is not necessary the reboot is enough, correct? Feb 02 01:35:20 Keenah: I walked in on the middle of this conversation. I don't know the answer to your question, sorry, probably should have kept my yapper shut Feb 02 01:35:43 if the phone reboots then that's what you want Feb 02 01:36:08 I generally always pull the battery, but in theory that's bad Feb 02 01:37:05 bah, pull it. can't brick a pre ;) Feb 02 01:42:01 chrisa: btw - emergency patch recovery (epr) Feb 02 01:49:23 zsoc: i wouldnt be so sure about that... unfortunately if it doesnt work and it's my fault sprint will not take responsibility and will not replace or fix it if they figure it out. although, they are so ignorant about the phone and its functionality they might not even notice. in my experience their answer to every little thing they cant figure out, which is a LOT or everything, they are... Feb 02 01:49:25 ...totally clueless about this phone, is to replace it cuz, it "broken"...this is my 4th one only cuz they were totally clueless about the partitions issue and they decided it was "broken", & le[t replacing it to now accept they had no idea what it was, imagine that! Feb 02 01:50:08 keenah: it would be very odd for your phone not to boot.. and doctoring would fix that Feb 02 01:51:58 that is the same as the EPR. i forced it and it worked. i was only wondering if anyone knew. thx! Feb 02 01:52:21 PuffTheMagic: you have plans for the kernel git or just a nice place to have pre-patched kernel stored, etc? Feb 02 01:52:49 dtzWill: right now it was just a collection of all the palm patches for easy access Feb 02 01:53:06 PuffTheMagic: kk. yeah looked like it but just curious if you had plans :) Feb 02 02:12:44 egaudet: I'm not aware of anything else using RestartDevice. I wasn't even aware that EPR was using it ;-) Feb 02 02:14:59 I put it in because there was at least one patch that required it, but I can't seem to remember which one Feb 02 02:34:42 PuffTheMagic: pm **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 02 02:59:58 2010