**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 03 02:59:56 2010 Feb 03 03:00:38 infobot, asktoask means "don't ask to ask, just ask" Feb 03 03:00:45 infobot, asktoask is "don't ask to ask, just ask" Feb 03 03:00:46 zsoc, it's on the second page Feb 03 03:00:46 ...but asktoask is already something else... Feb 03 03:00:50 ~ask Feb 03 03:00:52 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Feb 03 03:01:01 zsoc: :) Feb 03 03:01:22 er.. that's interesting. Feb 03 03:01:25 zsoc, http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/exhibitors?page=1 Feb 03 03:01:27 What is asktoask? Feb 03 03:01:33 ~asktoask Feb 03 03:01:34 This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. Feb 03 03:01:36 ha Feb 03 03:01:44 infobot: tell zsoc about asktoask Feb 03 03:01:44 or Feb 03 03:01:47 infobot: asktoask Feb 03 03:01:48 This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. Feb 03 03:01:59 Hm, he privmsgs me! lol Feb 03 03:02:04 yeah Feb 03 03:02:23 tell by default does /msg. you can change it if you roll your own. Feb 03 03:02:37 zsoc: take a look at the guide. Feb 03 03:02:39 ~about Feb 03 03:02:40 http://www.infobot.org/ - /msg infobot help for a list of commands - http://www.infobot.org/guide-0.43.x.html for a guide Feb 03 03:02:44 ty Feb 03 03:02:47 ~random Feb 03 03:02:50 * infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds libsensors1... a piece of crap Feb 03 03:03:05 infobot: coinflip is heads|tails Feb 03 03:03:06 okay, zsoc Feb 03 03:03:11 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:03:12 coinflip is, like, heads|tails Feb 03 03:03:15 hm.. Feb 03 03:03:26 infobot: no, coinflip is heads|tails Feb 03 03:03:27 okay, gkatsev Feb 03 03:03:30 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:03:31 heads|tails Feb 03 03:03:35 lol Feb 03 03:03:52 infobot: no, coinflip is heads | tails Feb 03 03:03:53 okay, gkatsev Feb 03 03:03:55 lulzget Feb 03 03:03:58 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:03:59 heads | tails Feb 03 03:04:10 karma for zsoc Feb 03 03:04:18 infobot: Clearly we need to upgrade you :D Feb 03 03:05:42 zsoc, maybe the coin landed on edge? Feb 03 03:05:47 haha Feb 03 03:05:54 ~forget coinflip Feb 03 03:05:55 gkatsev: i forgot coinflip Feb 03 03:05:59 maybe it needs two pipes? Feb 03 03:06:03 ~coinflip is heads|tails Feb 03 03:06:04 gkatsev: okay Feb 03 03:06:07 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:06:08 i heard coinflip is heads|tails Feb 03 03:06:09 i could use two pipes Feb 03 03:06:16 ~coinflip is heads|tails Feb 03 03:06:17 gkatsev: i already had it that way Feb 03 03:06:18 ~forget coinflip Feb 03 03:06:19 gkatsev: i forgot coinflip Feb 03 03:06:28 ~coinflip is |heads|tails Feb 03 03:06:29 gkatsev: okay Feb 03 03:06:32 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:06:34 |heads|tails Feb 03 03:06:36 ~forget coinflip Feb 03 03:06:37 i forgot coinflip, gkatsev Feb 03 03:06:45 ~coinflip is heads \| tails Feb 03 03:06:46 okay, gkatsev Feb 03 03:06:46 infobot: no, coinflip IT IS ALWAYS HEADS, STOP ASKING! Feb 03 03:06:47 zsoc: what are you talking about? Feb 03 03:06:53 infobot arm the weapons Feb 03 03:06:53 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:06:55 heads | tails Feb 03 03:06:55 infobot: no, coinflip is IT IS ALWAYS HEADS, STOP ASKING! Feb 03 03:06:57 okay, zsoc Feb 03 03:06:59 dammit... Feb 03 03:07:01 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:07:06 xD Feb 03 03:07:12 * zsoc broke everything Feb 03 03:07:13 escaping the | didnt work... Feb 03 03:07:24 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:07:25 IT IS ALWAYS HEADS, STOP ASKING! Feb 03 03:07:44 ~no, coinflip is heads \| tails Feb 03 03:07:54 infobot: no, coinflip is heads \| tails Feb 03 03:07:56 gkatsev: okay Feb 03 03:07:58 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:07:59 heads | tails Feb 03 03:08:05 infobot: no, coinflip is heads || tails Feb 03 03:08:06 gkatsev: okay Feb 03 03:08:08 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:08:09 [coinflip] tails Feb 03 03:08:14 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:08:16 YEY Feb 03 03:08:24 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:08:25 coinflip is probably tails Feb 03 03:08:29 lol Feb 03 03:08:42 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:08:43 somebody said coinflip was tails Feb 03 03:08:49 hahahahahaha Feb 03 03:08:52 lol Feb 03 03:08:54 ~forget coinflip Feb 03 03:08:54 gkatsev: i forgot coinflip Feb 03 03:10:45 how is it with whitespace? Feb 03 03:10:53 like | |? Feb 03 03:11:19 ~coinflip is heads | tails | side Feb 03 03:11:20 gkatsev: okay Feb 03 03:11:23 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:11:26 heads | tails | side Feb 03 03:11:46 infobot: no, coinflip is heads | | tails Feb 03 03:11:48 okay, gkatsev Feb 03 03:11:52 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:11:53 heads | | tails Feb 03 03:12:06 infobot: no, coinflip is heads \| tails Feb 03 03:12:07 gkatsev: okay Feb 03 03:12:09 ~coinflip Feb 03 03:12:10 heads | tails Feb 03 03:12:15 er, i meant definitions that include spaces Feb 03 03:12:16 ~botsmack Feb 03 03:12:17 OWW! Feb 03 03:12:18 like 2 words Feb 03 03:12:47 ~inlcudes two workds is a sentence that has two or more words Feb 03 03:12:48 gkatsev: okay Feb 03 03:12:51 ~includes two workds Feb 03 03:13:08 ~botsmack Feb 03 03:13:09 OWW! Feb 03 03:13:30 ~forget inlcudes two workds Feb 03 03:13:31 gkatsev: i forgot inlcudes two workds Feb 03 03:13:46 infobot: is\ is is a verb Feb 03 03:13:48 zsoc: I think you lost me on that one Feb 03 03:13:48 ~includes two words is a sentence that has two or more words Feb 03 03:13:49 okay, gkatsev Feb 03 03:13:51 LOL Feb 03 03:13:57 ~includes two words Feb 03 03:13:58 somebody said includes two words was a sentence that has two or more words Feb 03 03:14:02 ah Feb 03 03:14:06 ~includes Feb 03 03:14:16 nice Feb 03 03:15:16 ~my wallet would be a funny thing to forget Feb 03 03:15:39 ... Feb 03 03:15:50 ~my wallet is a funny thing to forget Feb 03 03:15:51 zsoc: okay Feb 03 03:15:58 infobot: forget my wallet Feb 03 03:15:58 i forgot my wallet, zsoc Feb 03 03:16:06 infobot: i'm sorry to hear that, can i buy you lunch? Feb 03 03:16:10 zsoc++ Feb 03 03:16:12 allllllright Feb 03 03:17:26 lol Feb 03 03:17:31 ~botsnack Feb 03 03:17:31 aw, gee, gkatsev Feb 03 03:26:23 infobot: gkatsev is *** HACKER ALERT *** Feb 03 03:26:24 ...but gkatsev is already something else... Feb 03 03:26:32 ~gkatsev Feb 03 03:26:33 gkatsev is awesome Feb 03 03:26:34 infobot no, gkatsev is *** HACKER ALERT *** Feb 03 03:26:35 oc80z: okay Feb 03 03:26:44 lol Feb 03 03:26:45 :P Feb 03 03:26:50 now we know! Feb 03 03:26:57 Its official! Feb 03 03:27:04 infobot: gkatsev is also awesome Feb 03 03:27:05 okay, gkatsev Feb 03 03:27:10 ~gkatsev Feb 03 03:27:12 * infobot *** HACKER ALERT ***, or awesome Feb 03 03:27:17 thhhhhth Feb 03 03:27:21 lol Feb 03 03:30:56 oh ghods, guys, do we have to turn the infobot off again? Feb 03 03:31:07 no Feb 03 03:31:09 >.> Feb 03 03:31:10 <.< Feb 03 03:31:16 rick-home: buy hey, I haven't gotten to play with it yet :P Feb 03 03:31:31 rick-home: blame zsoc Feb 03 03:31:33 infobot: forget destinal Feb 03 03:31:33 i forgot destinal, destinal-home Feb 03 03:31:35 enuf for one night ok? Play more tommorow Feb 03 03:31:36 ~destinal is denies all knowledge of destinal. Feb 03 03:31:38 destinal-home: okay Feb 03 03:31:41 ~destinal Feb 03 03:31:42 * infobot denies all knowledge of destinal. Feb 03 03:31:59 rick-home: yes dad Feb 03 03:32:45 rick-home: ok, I'm happy now :) Feb 03 03:32:59 destinal good Feb 03 03:33:05 pat pat pat Feb 03 03:33:23 so, did we decide that building X for the pre is just silly? Feb 03 03:33:37 because it looks like that is the only way I'm getting a gui editor. Feb 03 03:33:39 I had no idea infobot could be taught more than just name / value combinations in the "x is y" format Feb 03 03:33:42 and I'm not happy about it. Feb 03 03:33:54 destinal rtfm Feb 03 03:33:59 rick-home: indeed Feb 03 03:34:29 rick-home: you want a gui editor? why didn't you say so? :) Feb 03 03:34:32 anyone? Someone built x-sdl this afternoon just as I was going home... Feb 03 03:34:45 destinal-home I'VE BEEN SAYING SO SINCE JUNE Feb 03 03:34:50 I want to edit rtf files. Feb 03 03:34:52 or docs Feb 03 03:34:59 or SOMETHING besides plain text Feb 03 03:35:13 and nothing in Mojo can SAVE a file, although there IS a javascript RTF editor Feb 03 03:37:09 there, see, I say things like that, and they all run away like I was carrying a snake. Feb 03 03:37:23 Docs to Go isn't going to get me an editor any time soon. Feb 03 03:37:42 rick-home: yo Feb 03 03:37:45 you back Feb 03 03:37:49 im gonna make a editor Feb 03 03:37:55 yippee... Feb 03 03:37:56 with Elementary Feb 03 03:38:14 rick-home: well, if you can write it in mojo, plugins can't be that hard to stream to and from disk with Feb 03 03:38:38 raster: aus censorship law got repealed i heard? Feb 03 03:39:03 http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary ??? Feb 03 03:40:11 yeah Feb 03 03:43:00 the only problem with mojo editors is that they produce xhtml internally, basically, pretend I install a copy of fckeditor inside a mojo app. Feb 03 03:43:21 zsoc: no. just a south-australians law requiring stating your real name and address on any political commentry on-line during elections Feb 03 03:43:35 rick-home: that is indeed elementary Feb 03 03:43:39 itsa a bit old now Feb 03 03:43:49 elm has moved ona lot sicne i updated. that wiki last Feb 03 03:44:35 rick-home: ... Feb 03 03:44:35 http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=home Feb 03 03:44:44 http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=about&l=en Feb 03 03:44:51 http://docs.enlightenment.org/auto/elementary/ Feb 03 03:44:56 http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary Feb 03 03:45:03 those should be relevant Feb 03 03:45:12 raster: ah, so just the ridiculous impossible to enforce law thought up by ignorant clowns? Feb 03 03:45:52 http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/TMP/st/elementary Feb 03 03:45:56 alwso Feb 03 03:46:20 http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/TMP/st/elementary/src/bin Feb 03 03:46:24 good source of example Feb 03 03:46:27 code Feb 03 03:46:32 http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/TMP/st/elementary/src/lib/Elementary.h.in Feb 03 03:46:44 and header (well before it has some munging by configure to add include lines) Feb 03 03:46:58 zsoc: yes. clown-law repealed Feb 03 03:47:07 the inernet censorship thing is still aalive and well Feb 03 03:47:13 i'ver had my say on that one Feb 03 03:47:24 http://www.rasterman.com/ Feb 03 03:48:25 so raster, how hard would it be to do an RTF editor in that system? Feb 03 03:49:10 rick-home: dunno.. i guess it can be done Feb 03 03:49:13 there is an entry Feb 03 03:49:25 and it handles markup teext formatting Feb 03 03:49:31 its not a speed demon tho Feb 03 03:52:43 well. the problem I have every time I look at a document editor on the pre is that every parser I can find that actually claims to be fully functional and working is in c# or java. -- well, that's not true, there is a quite good RTF parser in perl, and a not horrific on in php Feb 03 03:52:49 but that doesn't help much Feb 03 03:57:06 whats good rw Feb 03 03:59:00 not too much tonight Feb 03 04:00:45 I managed to put a damper on everyone's fun Feb 03 04:00:58 I should tell infobot to start an infinite loop. Feb 03 04:03:52 afternoon all Feb 03 04:04:14 Hi farms. Feb 03 04:04:18 say something fun Feb 03 04:04:36 bang bang skeet skeet Feb 03 04:04:59 extra fun Feb 03 04:05:33 ahhahaha Feb 03 04:05:50 farms: you on wirc on your pre plus? :> Feb 03 04:06:29 yesm Feb 03 04:06:43 loves me pre plus Feb 03 04:06:44 excellent, first of many i hope Feb 03 04:07:22 I think so, I talk about it all the time Feb 03 04:07:39 webos is pretty much amazing Feb 03 04:08:40 agreed zsoc Feb 03 04:10:36 I had the iphone patch on here but I want websites to know I'm a palm pre Feb 03 04:10:48 wish they played nice Feb 03 04:11:58 they are getting better, give it a few months :) Feb 03 04:12:09 Do we have a privacy patch yet? Feb 03 04:12:20 i.e. a patch which turns off all phone-home functionality permanently Feb 03 04:12:44 rwhitby: i don't think there's enough information about what is happening Feb 03 04:13:00 yo all, have a question about editing /etc/fstab... Feb 03 04:13:07 I also need a 'only sync email when on wifi' patch Feb 03 04:13:18 xorg: simple answer: don't do it Feb 03 04:13:32 get mounting /dev/mapper/store-root on / failed: Device or resource busy... after editing... reboot, it goes away. Feb 03 04:13:44 but didn't touch entry related to / Feb 03 04:14:35 seems like any change to /etc/fstab causes this Feb 03 04:14:57 rwhitby there's a service api that tells if you're on wifi. Feb 03 04:15:38 rick-home: yeah, I know where all the info is, I just need to work out the best way to patch it. Feb 03 04:15:48 I was hoping Jason would get to it first ;-) Feb 03 04:16:25 rwhitby, /etc/fstab is what i use to map cifs mountpoint for dropbox/backup Feb 03 04:16:56 it works fine, but get that error message until a reboot... all ok after a reboot Feb 03 04:16:59 xorg: a less intrusive way is a uniquely named upstart script which mounts it Feb 03 04:17:10 http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1265170408255.jpg Feb 03 04:17:12 (since /etc/fstab *will* be overwritten by OTA updates regularly) Feb 03 04:17:30 and changes to /etc/fstab could possibly cause the endless update syndrome Feb 03 04:17:41 i guess i'll swtich to a manual mount cifs command Feb 03 04:19:03 i noticed optware makes a /opt entry in fstab Feb 03 04:19:16 xorg: no it doesn't Feb 03 04:19:38 optware touches no palm files Feb 03 04:19:56 /var/opt /opt bind defaults,bind 0 0 Feb 03 04:20:06 did optware bootstrap do that? Feb 03 04:20:44 optware bootstrap adds the org.webosinternals.optware upstart script which does the bind mount Feb 03 04:20:50 it does not modify /etc/fsta Feb 03 04:20:51 b Feb 03 04:21:08 ok Feb 03 04:21:52 i'll switch to using full mount command in dropbox/backup Feb 03 04:22:15 yeah, don't be a mytether and mess with palm files :-) Feb 03 04:24:29 hahah Feb 03 04:24:32 don't be a mytether Feb 03 04:24:40 good quote Feb 03 04:24:53 messing with Palm files isn't the issue I do not believe Feb 03 04:26:20 it's messing with ipkg database Feb 03 04:26:21 ok, don't be a mytether and SCREW UP palm files. Feb 03 04:26:28 hehe... don't want to do that! :) Feb 03 04:26:39 that's why i have you guys... keep me inline. Feb 03 04:26:41 don't be a mytether lol I like it Feb 03 04:27:02 DBAM! Feb 03 04:27:15 haha Feb 03 04:27:50 manual cifs mount works fine wth no fstab... Feb 03 04:29:03 so i guess i should not do /etc/hosts eithere... Feb 03 04:29:25 wait, dropbox works on ARM? Feb 03 04:29:58 acylord: no, i've done a workaround to dropbox via a windows pc that has it. Feb 03 04:30:13 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Dropbox_Syncing Feb 03 04:30:41 ahh, rsync Feb 03 04:30:45 it's not really a dropbox sync IMO Feb 03 04:30:54 just more of a samba share + rsync Feb 03 04:31:06 since it doesn't actually support anything of dropbox :p Feb 03 04:31:12 right, only one direction to in/outbox... Feb 03 04:31:13 ive been pushing dropbox from arm binaries of their service for years now =/ Feb 03 04:31:28 acydlord really? Feb 03 04:31:29 but in the end, drop a file on any pc with dbx and it appears on pre Feb 03 04:31:49 rick-home, yeah I wanted dropbox on my maemo devices Feb 03 04:32:14 is the source available? Feb 03 04:32:24 unfortunately it's all closed Feb 03 04:32:35 are the classes available? Feb 03 04:32:49 or are you just a big big tease. Feb 03 04:33:03 lemme check, i dont remember them having much available other than binaries Feb 03 04:33:13 acydlord: have you checked into ubuntu one? it's FOSS Feb 03 04:33:32 and yeah, I know, someone needs to port the client to windows Feb 03 04:33:48 i used ubuntuOne when i had a fulltime ubuntu desktop, havent used it much since then since i use dropbox between windows and nix Feb 03 04:34:06 ubuntu one would be great if it had a windows client Feb 03 04:35:03 https://www.dropbox.com/downloading?os=lnx Feb 03 04:35:08 looks like they have source up now Feb 03 04:35:21 they also have an iphone client, i believe it is browser based Feb 03 04:35:55 source! Feb 03 04:36:07 glad to see they opensourcedit Feb 03 04:36:12 spacebar fail Feb 03 04:36:15 http://i.imgur.com/nP0Xu.jpg Feb 03 04:36:47 dropboxd is a per-user closed-source daemon process that makes sure your $HOME/Dropbox directory is properly synchronized with your other computers Feb 03 04:36:56 nope acydlord Feb 03 04:37:01 flail Feb 03 04:37:22 everyone go bug dropbox to release an arm version of dropboxd Feb 03 04:37:38 bonjour Feb 03 04:37:55 haze Feb 03 04:37:56 no? no one? bah Feb 03 04:38:11 I thought it was funny Feb 03 04:38:18 okay Feb 03 04:38:52 hmmmm Feb 03 04:39:12 so I have noticed lately that apps show up in the feeds WAY before they show up in the catalog... Feb 03 04:39:18 sometimes even a day or 2 earlier... Feb 03 04:39:21 xorg is working on dropbox sync Feb 03 04:39:36 Kyusaku: requires a PC intermediary Feb 03 04:39:59 yeah I've tested it Feb 03 04:40:00 cryptk|work: preware has ESP Feb 03 04:40:07 rwhitby: lol Feb 03 04:40:08 yeah, it's hokey, but it meets my needs for now Feb 03 04:40:27 hrmm assassin's creed II on iPhone, wonder if the WebOS port is close by as well Feb 03 04:40:32 it's something Feb 03 04:40:37 xorg: you using ubuntu one or dropbox? Feb 03 04:40:53 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Dropbox_Syncing Feb 03 04:41:24 i'd use ubunto one if they had a windows client as well Feb 03 04:41:49 ahh Feb 03 04:42:36 https://www.dropbox.com/votebox/358/linux-arm-support Feb 03 04:43:32 does dropbox have a public api? Feb 03 04:43:38 nope =/ Feb 03 04:44:54 acydlord: I used all my votes on it, lol Feb 03 04:45:28 cryptk|work, me too lol Feb 03 04:45:41 +6, lol Feb 03 04:46:43 they've been talking about releasing an API for over a year now and I haven't seen anything come of it Feb 03 04:47:07 +6'd Feb 03 04:47:17 ditto Feb 03 04:47:40 lol yeah google code for dropbox API has said coming soon for like a year now Feb 03 04:47:58 dropbox is probably pretty sensitive about it... one wrong move and you wipe out the data Feb 03 04:48:34 which is why i only sync to a subfolder within dbx Feb 03 04:48:42 maybe some security holes they still haven't plugged Feb 03 04:49:41 there are a ton of people screaming for an ARM port of dropbox, but instead they pandered to the iPhone, kinda pisses me off Feb 03 04:50:03 install base ya know Feb 03 04:50:10 * egaudet bed, bbt Feb 03 04:52:50 xorg, there are tons more arm based devices on the market than iPhones, most of the home NAS boxes in the past few years are ARM based, and I'm willing to bet the NAS owners would be willing to pay for the upgraded storage Feb 03 04:57:57 is egaudet around? Feb 03 04:58:44 he went to bed Feb 03 04:59:39 fail. my phone is stuck Feb 03 05:03:18 android is ARM right? Feb 03 05:04:31 if so there is a votebox for an android app with like 10K votes Feb 03 05:04:44 Joely: stuck? Feb 03 05:05:30 yeah, android runs on ARM too Feb 03 05:05:31 android does run on arm arch Feb 03 05:05:50 so do nokia tablets Feb 03 05:05:51 people are just too dumb to realize that they just need the binaries built for the arch and the devs can do the rest Feb 03 05:06:23 of course the majority of "smartphone" owners are too dumb/ignorant to know what arch their device runs on anyway Feb 03 05:07:30 acydlord: that is why they need a smartphone... to make up the for dumbuser, lol Feb 03 05:10:04 i don't get why they are selling a "tablet" that isn't a computer at all. it runs a stripped down os that can only run one crappy app at a time Feb 03 05:11:33 because people will buy anything they make Feb 03 05:13:26 really? all it takes is a software update and it runs multiple applications... i am disappointed with no standard ports on it at all Feb 03 05:13:44 well, the real reason is so apple doesn't need to reduce the price of macbooks to compete with cheaper netbooks Feb 03 05:16:20 jobs isn't dumb. Feb 03 05:16:25 they'll sell a zillion Feb 03 05:16:30 rwhitby, they tried that with the macbook air, i think they sold 6 of them Feb 03 05:17:29 but like i said, people will buy anything apple makes, they could take poop, wrap it in shiny white plastic or brushed alluminum and people would sell their kids to buy it Feb 03 05:23:35 they sold more than 6, I know I've seen more than 6 different youtube videos of people showing people how much the macbook air sux Feb 03 05:23:41 I just can't wait for apple to come out with a shiny letter to begin sentences... Feb 03 05:23:43 :P Feb 03 05:23:44 call it the iI Feb 03 05:25:04 or a prostetic brushed aluminum oculus... Feb 03 05:25:08 call it the iEye Feb 03 05:26:19 or an apple branded dating service made to introduce one prudish hipster to another... Feb 03 05:26:24 the iYou Feb 03 05:27:28 do apple employees have iJobs and get iChecks at the end of the iMonth? Feb 03 05:27:37 alright... I am done, I promise... Feb 03 05:27:59 acydlord: I bet they sold more macbook airs than palm has sold webOS devices ... Feb 03 05:29:09 i've only ever seen 2 macbook airs in the wild, havent seen any since about a month after release Feb 03 05:29:57 haha apple dating service would be lulz Feb 03 05:30:34 iTards looking for other iTards for love Feb 03 05:42:01 so how's it going guys? :) Feb 03 05:52:24 got nes emu running :). not done but wooo Feb 03 05:53:52 dtz: what package? Feb 03 05:54:08 rwhitby: gpfce Feb 03 05:54:22 rwhitby: http://notaz.gp2x.de/gpfce.php Feb 03 05:56:01 anyone else having problems with gps on pre plus Feb 03 05:58:55 dtz: what back-end? Feb 03 05:59:26 farms: it's a known issue Feb 03 06:00:43 rwhitby: not sure how to answer that. using sdl for graphics if that's what you mean Feb 03 06:01:12 dtz: yep Feb 03 06:01:51 rwhitby: yep. like many gp2x shit it uses some 'minimal' library that apparently got passed around/used a lot.... but there's a testing/debugging version that uses sdl. it'll need some work but at least it runs :). Feb 03 06:02:07 s/shit/applications/ Feb 03 06:02:07 dtz meant: rwhitby: yep. like many gp2x applications it uses some 'minimal' library that apparently got passed around/used a lot.... but there's a testing/debugging version that uses sdl. it'll need some work but at least it runs :). Feb 03 06:02:09 :) Feb 03 06:02:21 does it run well? Feb 03 06:02:25 rwhitby: no Feb 03 06:02:44 rwhitby: haha, although i honestly _just_ got it running. but not an insta-speed Feb 03 06:02:51 rwhitby: which was a little disappointing, truth be told Feb 03 06:02:55 So I may not be the first to do this, but I figured out how to read the accelerometer measurements from hidd Feb 03 06:03:26 I did not see it anywhere on the wiki Feb 03 06:03:40 on the accelerometer or hidd pages Feb 03 06:03:49 please add it :-) Feb 03 06:11:09 I am having fun watching shifter kart videos... Feb 03 06:11:15 I miss my old 125cc... Feb 03 06:11:24 I've got a contact at palm so I'm gonna do a writeyp Feb 03 06:11:42 ? Feb 03 06:12:10 schulman: cool. I'm not sure if you are or not, I know egaudet had a test harness talking to hidd based on the code in the SDL patch Feb 03 06:12:23 schulman: what I'm really interested in though is making new hidd plugins. Feb 03 06:12:31 I just haven't put much time into it Feb 03 06:12:58 if you are talking about the sample code that is talking to the hidd Feb 03 06:12:59 that is around Feb 03 06:13:30 schulman: yeah he did that, but again, the plugins are more interesting and afaik nobody outside palm has done that yet :) Feb 03 06:13:36 but specifically how to use that to read the accelerometer, which involves casting a uint as a float, no Feb 03 06:13:47 schulman: ah, cool Feb 03 06:13:55 yeah, that is main contribution Feb 03 06:14:28 you do a pointer cast, dereference on the int returned from HID and you get the accel value Feb 03 06:15:00 schulman: excellent, (and a good thing to put on wiki also) Feb 03 06:15:09 I am putting that up on the wiki Feb 03 06:15:32 it is easy to test if the cast works, considering we have gravity :) Feb 03 06:17:56 Pre Plus users should try that GPS hack Feb 03 06:18:09 Does anyone know if you can disable the GPS hardware Feb 03 06:18:12 turn if off Feb 03 06:18:13 it off Feb 03 06:18:14 if you will Feb 03 06:19:24 completely? Feb 03 06:19:50 or just like off/on in OS? Feb 03 06:20:07 completely Feb 03 06:20:12 so it does not consume any energy Feb 03 06:20:17 * xcomp finally orders a new pc case Feb 03 06:20:36 it was either that or take a hammer to the current one Feb 03 06:21:08 xcomp: you dent the old one? or was it too small? Feb 03 06:21:16 rattling fans Feb 03 06:21:26 i've had enough of them Feb 03 06:21:50 ahh, that is why I watercooled... Feb 03 06:22:01 I have 6 large fans, so they run very slow Feb 03 06:22:26 every now and then the one inside the PSU starts to make a really loud noise Feb 03 06:22:36 plus with the water cooling they don't need to run as fast to pull the heat out of the radiator... not nearly like they would if you were pulling the heat out of the case Feb 03 06:22:53 You can hardly hear my computer run at all... Feb 03 06:23:07 yet it is extremely overclocked... people are always amazed Feb 03 06:23:22 sooner or later I'll splurge on a new rig Feb 03 06:23:27 but ti does have a very good watercooling system... custom setup... no store bought kit in that rig Feb 03 06:23:35 at least five cores Feb 03 06:26:51 ok, code is in http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Accelerometer Feb 03 06:26:55 no one knows how to disable the GPS? Feb 03 06:27:42 used generic IDE 1GB hard drie, OEM Feb 03 06:27:46 Regular Price $59.99 Feb 03 06:27:50 On Sale: $2.99 Feb 03 06:37:46 just googled myself and found the chat log fo this channel, lol Feb 03 06:38:25 egosurfing can be such a frustrating pastime. Feb 03 06:42:16 haha, I was actually trying to find a certain picture Feb 03 06:42:40 but since I put my online alias in the search, and that alias is all over this log... it was one of the top results Feb 03 06:43:11 will be on from home Feb 03 06:49:22 ok yall I am off to sleep Feb 03 06:49:26 rwhitby: fwiw looks like the original fceux has a significantly better sdl implementation so i'll probably look into that at some point. since you asked :) Feb 03 06:49:38 schulman: disable the GPS? Feb 03 06:50:15 yeah, I want to get a good signal measurement Feb 03 06:50:24 which means you need to put the radio into debug mode Feb 03 06:50:25 an Feb 03 06:50:44 but I think if you put the radio in debug mode, it causes the GPS radios to spin up too Feb 03 06:50:54 so I want to just shut down the GPS Feb 03 06:51:20 schulman: ah, I see what you mean. I don't know the answer but if I find it I'll post it and let you know Feb 03 06:51:30 thanks Feb 03 06:51:41 do you know a good way to get a signal measurement? Feb 03 06:51:47 that is not the silly "bar" reading Feb 03 06:51:59 i really like the dBm reading you get from debug mode Feb 03 06:54:16 schulman: hmm, I normally would think of just checking for luna services related to gps / radio but I'm not seeing anything that quite does that Feb 03 06:54:40 are you trying tog et a signal rating for the phone rario? Feb 03 06:54:53 yeah, even if you look at the telephony interface layer it does not clearly export a more precise signal Feb 03 06:54:54 wow... typos from hell... Feb 03 06:54:58 unless you are in debug mode Feb 03 06:55:15 yes Feb 03 06:55:16 yeah... I remember seeing something in one of the ## menus... but that may have been for GPS... Feb 03 06:55:38 cryptk|work: that's probably coming from the TIL anyway, though, right? Feb 03 06:55:43 yeah it is Feb 03 06:55:44 I would think so Feb 03 06:56:08 there is a IPC for enabling radiodebug and sending the message in TIL Feb 03 06:56:13 hrm... you talking about radios makes em wonder if we can get the wifi radio to go into promiscuous mode... Feb 03 06:56:28 cryptk|work: I don't believe the driver palm ships supports monitor mode Feb 03 06:56:42 the driver they ship may not... but drivers can be patched... Feb 03 06:56:48 as long as we can find the source Feb 03 06:57:29 (and the driver is binary only though I recall hearing that there was a libertas open source driver also out there) Feb 03 06:57:56 if anyone has tested it, I've never heard Feb 03 06:58:40 what is the driver? Feb 03 06:58:42 or chipset Feb 03 06:59:18 Marvell sd8xxx Feb 03 06:59:29 i see Feb 03 07:01:23 if we can get it into monitor mode... then we could have aircrack on the pre... Feb 03 07:06:34 cryptk|work: worst case if we can't get it into monitor we could grab a usb dongle that we could get support for (but of course first we need usb host mode -- not sure why that's not working also, starting to suspect it may need kernel recompile) Feb 03 07:07:01 destinal-home: that would be some serious hacking on the phone... Feb 03 07:07:04 right now I'm still at getting a device to power over a A-connector-adapter by echoing otg > the device Feb 03 07:07:14 wouldn't be able to do it through a kernel module? Feb 03 07:07:16 so yes power, no enumeration Feb 03 07:07:43 just watched a vid of a guy driving a shifter kart on the highway, lol Feb 03 07:08:03 cryptk|work: well, that depends, I don't understand why it is that it doesn't "just work" (host mode I mean) Feb 03 07:08:27 since if obviously can switch into otg mode and the device plugged in is getting power Feb 03 07:08:55 wonder if Palm shut it off for some reason... Feb 03 07:08:59 Hrm didn't know you could get power. I tried with a gender changer to plug a usb stick in but didnt know that was possible Feb 03 07:09:32 but if we talk about hacking it enough... 1.4 may have some kind of ninja change to make it possible Feb 03 07:09:33 joshua: you need an micro-A-male to female standard usb connector Feb 03 07:09:49 wouldn't be the first time the thing we need mysteriously makes it into the next patch undocumented Feb 03 07:09:54 as opposed to the microusb-B connector Feb 03 07:10:03 i have the standard usb cable and a female/female adapter Feb 03 07:10:08 look at the stuff that pade precorder possible Feb 03 07:10:15 and I am sure it happened a few other times Feb 03 07:10:19 but i didn't know about enabling otg, it just didn't get power so linux didn't see any device Feb 03 07:10:41 there was something on there with gadgetfs, i dont know much about how that works Feb 03 07:11:24 joshua: B is different from A though, see http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2008/01/21/usb-on-the-go Feb 03 07:11:41 joshua: it's not just male and female Feb 03 07:12:18 well that picture kinda looks like what I did, plug the micro in and then use the adapter to the key Feb 03 07:12:44 ahh now i see scrolling down Feb 03 07:12:50 a soldering iron... hah Feb 03 07:13:32 yeah or just buy a micro A cable or whatever. I got one from digikey Feb 03 07:14:26 USB host mode? Feb 03 07:14:35 if we could force host mode that wouldn't matter but forcing host causes a hard freeze of the device, for me. again, may be kernel issues, I need to rebuild a kernel to try Feb 03 07:15:32 jacques: well the chipset on the pre supports USB OTG. I have a micro-A adapter cable that I plug things into and echo otg > /sys/devices/platform/*musb*/mode will put the usb controller in OTG mode Feb 03 07:15:44 then I can plug in a device and get power but it won't enumerate Feb 03 07:17:02 jacques: I'm not really familiar with the kernel code at work here or I'd try diagnosing what's going on Feb 03 07:17:19 if you echo "host" instead, the whole device freezes hard Feb 03 07:17:20 I think I read it works on the beagle boards Feb 03 07:18:11 so at this point having the right cable and echoing "otg" seems to work better, but again, don't know if there's some hardware or kernel issue preventing it from actually working Feb 03 07:18:20 tho that's no guarantee it can work on the Pre - could be a hardware error (like the first few revs of beagle boards) Feb 03 07:19:46 I should probably build a simple kernel and not run the rest of webos, and try checking it out there Feb 03 07:19:49 destinal-home: have you tried building USB with debugging enabled? might tell something in the otg / no enumeration case Feb 03 07:20:11 *nods* that would be good as well Feb 03 07:20:27 hrm... seperate kernel... could we dual boot the pre? Feb 03 07:20:33 cryptk|work: of course Feb 03 07:20:42 that would be interesting... Feb 03 07:21:21 wonder if we could run something like DSL on it... Feb 03 07:21:31 then see if USB host mode works in that Feb 03 07:21:40 if so then we know it isn't a hardware issue Feb 03 07:21:41 cryptk|work: heh, DSL? Feb 03 07:22:04 Damn Small Linux Feb 03 07:22:08 cryptk|work: I could build a version of palm's kernel and tweak that, and run a minimal userland, anyway Feb 03 07:22:31 cryptk|work: yeah, I know what it is, it's not exactly made for ARM or this board specifically ;) Feb 03 07:22:43 that's true... Feb 03 07:22:55 we could... in theory... try and boot android, lol Feb 03 07:23:12 cryptk|work: sure, supposedly the droid is a cortex-A8 also Feb 03 07:23:48 android wouldn't be hard to get running I presume Feb 03 07:23:51 that would be fun... then we could say that the pre does EVERYTHING the droid does... and more... Feb 03 07:24:05 ~seen dBsooner Feb 03 07:24:07 dbsooner is currently on #webos-internals (15h 20m 46s) #webos-watercooler (15h 20m 46s). Has said a total of 86 messages. Is idling for 7h 32m 35s, last said: 'even better!'. Feb 03 07:24:09 then triple boot with iPhone OS, lol... best of all 3 worlds, LOL Feb 03 07:24:18 cryptk|work: ok, now you're getting crazy :) Feb 03 07:24:34 BWAHAHA!!! Feb 03 07:24:39 I want to triple boot my pre Feb 03 07:24:59 I just wikipedia'd it.. iPhone 3GS uses cortex A8 also... Feb 03 07:25:06 the level of binary reverse engineering and patching of the OSX/darwin/arm system to make it even begin to boot on a pre is just a ton of work Feb 03 07:25:09 thus crazy Feb 03 07:25:24 haha Feb 03 07:25:33 I know, I was only ever so slightly serious Feb 03 07:25:53 droid shouldn't be too hard though... Feb 03 07:26:04 on the other hand, geist did the bootloader for iphone and pre both.. :P Feb 03 07:26:09 Once they start using their own modified version of ARM CPUs with custom instruction sets forget it... heh Feb 03 07:26:11 since it is much more open than the maCrapp phone... Feb 03 07:26:48 bootloader for the pre Feb 03 07:26:49 ?? Feb 03 07:26:57 cryptk|work: yeah it's called bootie Feb 03 07:27:06 oh, the last resort thing? Feb 03 07:27:30 no, no, no, the last resort thing is about starting bootie up from a USB connection as opposed to from flash where it normally starts up from Feb 03 07:27:55 ohh, so just the part of the phone that runs with vol up Feb 03 07:27:58 gotcha Feb 03 07:28:22 well it's also the thing that shows the palm logo and starts up linux when you don't run with vol up Feb 03 07:28:33 bootie is always started when you turn on pre / pixi Feb 03 07:28:33 yeah Feb 03 07:28:38 I am following Feb 03 07:29:02 I just never really thought about the bootloader since there is onyl one OS... never had to think about it Feb 03 07:29:04 but yeah, when you're out of battery and it shows the red battery logo, that's bootie doing that too Feb 03 07:29:11 I only really care about them when multi-booting Feb 03 07:29:57 cryptk|work: yeah most people don't think of the whole bootstrap process that occurs from executing the first block of machine code off flash, etc Feb 03 07:30:16 the chainboot command in bootie seems interesting... Feb 03 07:30:26 yes.. why, yes it does. Feb 03 07:30:49 we'd need a reasonable bootloader of our own to chain to, but it could be very interesting Feb 03 07:30:50 it may "allow" dual booting out of the box... Feb 03 07:30:59 something very lightweight Feb 03 07:31:08 grub would be a recource hog on the pre, lol Feb 03 07:31:36 cryptk|work: not x86 here Feb 03 07:31:41 yeah Feb 03 07:31:52 I know, I was just making the comparison as far as system recources Feb 03 07:31:55 mainly it doesn't know the first thing about booting an arm Feb 03 07:31:56 resources* Feb 03 07:31:56 but yeah Feb 03 07:32:16 we would need something for arm... and about half the size of grub Feb 03 07:33:07 Bootldr maybe? Feb 03 07:33:26 cryptk|work: there's uboot and others, but at any rate we'd have to do a nontrivial amount of work to get it to talk to the hardware and we'd probably want it to draw to the screen and get info from the GPIO pins to select a profile, etc. Feb 03 07:33:31 for now I'd say don't bother Feb 03 07:34:12 what would be nice (but dangerous) is modifying bootie to chainboot to it with something like vol down... Feb 03 07:34:16 we can do dual boot by just having whatever running linux let you select on the shut down step Feb 03 07:34:21 just like how vol up iw recovery Feb 03 07:34:52 hrm... so instead of booting into the second OS, you reboot into it... Feb 03 07:35:09 then you could throw a launcher icon in for it... Feb 03 07:35:12 right. it would require two systems that are both functional Feb 03 07:35:28 that is how the PS3 does it... Feb 03 07:35:29 if either one broke, you'd have to recover in some way Feb 03 07:35:54 you can install a second OS on the PS3, then after it starts up into the normal PS3 OS, you can choose to reboot into the other OS Feb 03 07:36:30 cool. the recovery wouldn't be too arduous at any rate, it would be recovery mode, novaterm, type a couple of commands Feb 03 07:36:32 I wonder what they used on the iPod linux project... Feb 03 07:36:57 (which btw you can always do to dual boot anyway without anything special but most people don't want to carry around a computer to switch) :) Feb 03 07:37:03 yes, as long as we didn't touch bootie at all, the phone should remain relatively "un-brickable" Feb 03 07:37:20 even if you totally wipe out bootie, you can still boot bootie over usb Feb 03 07:37:21 u-boot Feb 03 07:37:27 yes Feb 03 07:37:38 but have we had anyone sucessfully do the last resort yet? Feb 03 07:38:18 cryptk|work: I've done the whole thing from usb booting bootie to loading the installer uimage to bootie via novacom to novaterm'ing into the installer shell Feb 03 07:38:25 it's all on the wiki article Feb 03 07:38:35 ahh Feb 03 07:38:37 cool Feb 03 07:38:54 seems like we should be able to make a script, or executable... that automates that alot Feb 03 07:38:55 cryptk|work: the one thing you want though really is a backup of the first 8 megs or so of your flash disk Feb 03 07:39:29 what is bootie written in? Assembly? Feb 03 07:39:32 since there's a few things doctor won't be able to replace for you, the "nvram area" (partition1) being the main one Feb 03 07:39:56 cryptk|work: thumb (or was that thumb2) ARM machine code, yeah Feb 03 07:40:39 hrm... it could only be a meg or 2... Feb 03 07:40:54 cryptk|work: you can check out boot.bin and see exactly how big Feb 03 07:40:59 wonder how hard it would be to set up the vol down... Feb 03 07:41:04 I am at work so I can't look at it... Feb 03 07:41:10 but I probably will tomorrow Feb 03 07:41:15 cryptk|work: depends on how good you are at ARM assembly Feb 03 07:41:16 after I play a little crysis warhead Feb 03 07:41:28 I am ok at it, but I have a friend that is a genious at it.... Feb 03 07:41:57 he could probably whip something up real fast to let us chainboot to a specified botloader with a different key Feb 03 07:42:02 personally if we have those kinds of skills I'd say let's just chainboot and try to set chainboot as the autoboot setting Feb 03 07:42:10 and put our own bootloader in as a chain loader Feb 03 07:42:36 then have our bootloader default to webos but give you an option menu for a second or 2 Feb 03 07:42:39 we can do all that without modifying bootie at all, just its environment settings Feb 03 07:42:46 true Feb 03 07:42:50 hrm... Feb 03 07:42:58 I may have to see if I can get ahold of him... Feb 03 07:43:07 I heard he got a new phone... I hope it was a pre, lol Feb 03 07:43:15 if you can draw to the screen with ARM assembly, you're way ahead of me (lol) Feb 03 07:43:25 well, bootie does it... Feb 03 07:43:39 I could possibly write some text to the screen, but I know for a fact he could Feb 03 07:43:41 we really need our own bootloader, you're not modifying bootie to display a menu Feb 03 07:43:47 yeah Feb 03 07:43:53 that is why I wasn't gonna go for a menu Feb 03 07:44:12 I was looking more for adding in a boot with vol down to load a diff bootloader Feb 03 07:44:26 then if the phone boots with no vol keys it just boots like nothing ever hapopened Feb 03 07:44:33 anyway, it is my lunch time, I will bbiab Feb 03 07:44:35 sure but we could just automatically load a diff bootloader and have our bootloader load either one just fine Feb 03 07:44:38 only parts of a bootloader are in assembly, the rest can be in C (for example) Feb 03 07:45:41 anyway, time for bed. night all Feb 03 07:46:40 probably hardest part of making the chain-bootloader would be ripping out the unneeded parts - setting up the hardware / memory timings / etc. Feb 03 07:47:33 the part where it relocates itself after RAM initialization. things like that Feb 03 08:06:34 seems like I am all alone... at work... Feb 03 08:11:44 everyone from gameservers.com went home so now im at the office alone as well. heh Feb 03 08:22:23 cryptk|work: I've just left work, so you are no longer alone :-) Feb 03 08:23:00 haha Feb 03 08:23:15 rwhitby: did you read any of the talk about bootloaders? Feb 03 08:23:40 cryptk|work: reading the backlog on the bus now Feb 03 08:23:46 ahh Feb 03 08:26:54 cryptk|work: I like your idea that if we talk about interesting things enough in there, then a ninja change appears in the next webOS version. Feb 03 08:27:15 haha, it has indeed happened more than once Feb 03 08:27:22 proof they do watch this channel Feb 03 08:27:38 bbiab Feb 03 08:28:14 Apex is a good small bootloader Feb 03 08:28:59 im having troubles installing themes preware keeps saying see ipkg log, any ideas Feb 03 08:29:43 yes, first idea is to look at the ipkg log Feb 03 08:30:40 error is errorgenericmethodexception: failed during "install" operation Feb 03 08:31:25 that's not the full text of the ipkg log, is it. Feb 03 08:31:47 no, its telling me to do an ipkg update Feb 03 08:31:51 do i just refresh the feeds? Feb 03 08:32:14 yes Feb 03 08:32:45 sorry for being such a n00b Feb 03 08:33:37 btw thank you for all the contributions to the community Feb 03 08:35:57 back Feb 03 08:37:15 rwhitby: apex could definitely work... Feb 03 08:40:04 rwhitby: you in euroupe? Feb 03 08:40:44 or is freenode just connecting you through luxembourg because it is weird.. Feb 03 08:40:58 now that I look at it... it is connecting me through germany, lol Feb 03 08:45:21 you can set chat.us.freenode.net as your server to just use US servers Feb 03 08:45:44 joshua: I am using the web portal since I am at work Feb 03 08:46:17 ahh, i just have a putty screen session for irc from anywhere Feb 03 08:46:44 ssh screen session I mean Feb 03 08:47:34 am I mising something really obvious or does networking type stuff have to be done via the pdk at the moment? Feb 03 08:48:52 doesnt seem to be any higher level stuff via the sdk to allow service broadcast or connection to such Feb 03 08:53:12 I can't think of any application that does that kind of thing yet. Usually they do some kind of communication to a server using web APIs Feb 03 08:54:06 ahhh crap Feb 03 08:54:40 so basically id need ot implement something via pdk and expose it at the sdk level? Feb 03 08:54:54 would there be any reason why some themes would work on the pre and not the pre plus? Feb 03 08:54:58 i thought they were identical Feb 03 08:55:10 atm on iPhone we are just using bonjour which is easy enough Feb 03 08:55:43 i think it has some kind of XMPP business, but I am not an app developer so I don't know the specifics Feb 03 08:56:02 maybe someone in #webos would know better Feb 03 08:56:19 yeah Ill try again Feb 03 08:57:31 I think the missing sync does some kind of wifi syncing. I wonder how it does it Feb 03 08:58:26 probably client/server since it requires a desktop app Feb 03 08:58:39 joshua, from what I understood pre handles dynamic mesh too doesnt it? Feb 03 08:58:50 adhoc networks like Feb 03 09:00:12 so rwhitby how was work? Feb 03 09:10:08 I have some of the javascript from missing sync open and there is something they are using appAssistant.network.networkStatus() Feb 03 09:11:37 joshua, ahh interesting, ill have a look, theres obviously connection manager in mojo but it appears to be pretty limited. Feb 03 09:12:10 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1649&Itemid=65 Feb 03 09:14:18 swishy, what exactly are you trying to do? Feb 03 09:15:16 acydlord, with our iPhone app we use bonjour to create a service on a phone, and of course from other phones you can see the service and connect to it, we use it to pass events around Feb 03 09:16:09 Just curious, whats the name of the app? Feb 03 09:16:17 swishy, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Avahi Feb 03 09:16:22 joshua, iQk Feb 03 09:16:41 joshua, its opensource if you wanted to see what we were up to Feb 03 09:16:49 that kind of hackery with deamons wont fly on a production app. heh Feb 03 09:17:26 joshua, works fine on production apps, just not official app catalogue ones Feb 03 09:17:46 joshua, http://code.google.com/p/kadd-jade/source/browse/#hg/iQk/Classes Feb 03 09:18:04 joshua, it was more about getting something working in a limited timeframe ;) Feb 03 09:18:14 and since this is #webos-internals and not #webos, most of the stuff on topic here ends up in the preware catalogues Feb 03 09:18:47 acydlord, ahh so avahai isnt available on the pre out of the box? Feb 03 09:19:36 not out of the box, it can be installed via optware Feb 03 09:20:34 damn Feb 03 09:20:35 :) Feb 03 09:21:01 hopefully as time passes palm will put the rest of the mission control compatable libs into the messenger app so that it supports all the messengers and bonjour services and such Feb 03 09:21:04 if the app was using SDL then you could use libsdl-net Feb 03 09:21:56 anywho im off for the evening, night Feb 03 09:22:04 acydlord, see ya Feb 03 09:22:32 joshua, I take it that would resort to using hte pdk? Feb 03 09:24:30 swishy: most likely, yes Feb 03 09:24:39 right Feb 03 09:25:20 you can grab the quake app and see how they did it Feb 03 09:26:36 joshua, ok thanks ill have a look, im picking its just a C port using bare minimum sdk to allow the card creation and call to native binary Feb 03 09:26:42 The full PDK is supposed to be with 1.4 which is right around the corner Feb 03 09:27:03 * swishy nods Feb 03 09:27:04 yeah theres not much javascript, it just starts the SDL app in a card Feb 03 09:27:49 with the PDK is it actually intended to be used to allow mojo frontend > c lib calls etc? Feb 03 09:28:01 yes Feb 03 09:28:36 ok create Feb 03 09:28:40 Heres some info http://developer.palm.com/index.php?Itemid=20&id=1850&option=com_content&view=article Feb 03 09:28:41 s/create/great Feb 03 09:28:48 the PDK is created, as my understanding, to create native apps on the pre, wether they are native apps with their own front end that run in a card, or a back end service to add an API that you need Feb 03 09:29:41 ok thanks Feb 03 09:29:46 Moving to SDL would let you build the app on either device too since there is SDL for iphone. Basically what SDL was intended for. heh Feb 03 09:30:01 joshua, yeah hehe :) Feb 03 09:30:49 right thanks for answering the queries Feb 03 09:30:54 I better get some sleep Feb 03 09:31:19 joshua, dont laugh too hard if you had a look at the link Feb 03 09:31:20 lol Feb 03 09:32:10 I was watchin this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNY4MQsGgVA Feb 03 09:32:11 heh Feb 03 09:32:25 ah yeap Feb 03 09:32:26 :) Feb 03 09:32:31 we did the ui in playdough Feb 03 09:32:52 joshua, audio in the vid was in game sounds like Feb 03 09:33:15 Looks cool. WebOS needs more music apps like the iphone has Feb 03 09:33:30 :) Feb 03 09:34:59 yeah we were hoping to add in actual single note sample and provide 2 octaves + the loops we have now so you couls actually do melody creation etc in iQk and loop new stuff to Feb 03 09:35:06 output to garageband etc Feb 03 09:35:13 but havent had time yet Feb 03 09:35:29 this was mashed together to get somethng working to meet the launch date Feb 03 09:36:07 joshua, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc0hxLAW2oA Feb 03 09:37:10 Ive got a kaossilator I hardly play with at home. Could do a duet with it. heh Feb 03 09:37:32 hehe :) Feb 03 09:37:47 right outta here Feb 03 09:37:49 have a good one Feb 03 10:01:44 dtz: you there? Feb 03 10:02:03 cryptk|work: barely :), probably sleeping soonish Feb 03 10:02:06 cryptk|work: what's up? :) Feb 03 10:02:21 have you thought about e-mailing palm for early access to the pdk? Feb 03 10:02:28 they might let you in... Feb 03 10:02:43 from the palm website: Feb 03 10:02:44 If you're interested in receiving early access to the PDK, send an email to pdk-info@palm.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it and be sure to include details about who you are and what you intend to do with the PDK. Feb 03 10:03:11 cryptk|work: i have not. that would be nice; i really didn't know how/what kinds of people they let in, figured it was people who were bigger names or at least had mojo apps or something :) Feb 03 10:03:11 ignore the part about spam bots... Feb 03 10:03:32 well, I would email them and tell them what you have made Feb 03 10:03:44 I mean you did quake, vba, what else... Feb 03 10:03:55 heard you have an nes emulator in early stages Feb 03 10:04:07 they might let you in, worth a shot Feb 03 10:05:58 and what happened to the dtzWill name? Feb 03 10:06:07 cryptk|work: haha do you miss it? :) Feb 03 10:06:27 nah, just threw me off when I hit dt and tab and only got dtz, lol Feb 03 10:06:55 cryptk|work: I registered 'dtz' a while back but couldn't remember doing it.. but it was registered to this 'will' fellow... long story short it was me and i finally got around to grouping it :) Feb 03 10:07:17 ahh Feb 03 10:07:18 lol Feb 03 10:09:56 I think you should sign up for it... Feb 03 10:10:01 but it is your choice of course Feb 03 10:10:09 i honestly don't think i'll get pdk access Feb 03 10:10:09 lol Feb 03 10:10:14 really don't :) Feb 03 10:10:28 I mean, the SDK isn't targeted at the webos-internals people... but the PDK... that is another story... Feb 03 10:10:44 you never know, may as well email them, what's the worst they can say? no? Feb 03 10:11:08 right Feb 03 10:11:12 might as well try explaining it. A lot of stuff people in here are doing will be redundant once the PDK is public Feb 03 10:11:29 "we hate you and will be activating your device's self-destruct button in 3...2..." Feb 03 10:11:37 s/button/feature/ Feb 03 10:11:37 dtzWill meant: "we hate you and will be activating your device's self-destruct feature in 3...2..." Feb 03 10:11:47 :) Feb 03 10:11:49 ~botsmack Feb 03 10:11:51 OWW! Feb 03 10:11:57 joshua: indeed. i agree that it can't hurt :) Feb 03 10:13:06 I mean, if they let you in, you could start porting your stuff over to it now... I am sure the WIPDK will probably get dropped to the side by most people once the official PDK is out Feb 03 10:13:24 SB2 is great, but there is no beating something taht is custom tailored to the target device Feb 03 10:14:05 I have been reading alot on elinux.org... Feb 03 10:14:25 I may try and work with a friend of mine on making a bootloader to allow us to dual-boot the pre into other OS's Feb 03 10:14:39 like android.... or any linux distribution built for arm for that matter... Feb 03 10:15:03 cryptk|work: I saw that discussion, that's excellent Feb 03 10:15:30 I figure I can test it on my pre... the things are damn near impossible to brick Feb 03 10:15:41 you can load bootie via USB if worst comes to worst Feb 03 10:15:59 cryptk|work: something I might be interested in, although I've only played with the linux kernel stuff (that ends up doing many things that a bootloader does, but not as general I suppose) Feb 03 10:16:11 cryptk|work: yeah I'm currently going through the rite of building my own kernel Feb 03 10:16:20 for a PC or for the pre? Feb 03 10:16:30 although it looks super easy; i think my source is incomplete? regardless a good thing to do Feb 03 10:16:33 cryptk|work: :) for the pre Feb 03 10:16:42 cryptk|work: i am not unfamiliar with the linux kernel Feb 03 10:17:11 are you going to be trying to just replace the current kernel with the one you build? Feb 03 10:17:16 how do you plan on booting it? Feb 03 10:17:19 cryptk|work: well that's the start Feb 03 10:17:27 cryptk|work: it's detailed on the wiki; i'm not pushing new ground... yet Feb 03 10:17:46 s/pushing new ground// Feb 03 10:17:46 dtzWill meant: cryptk|work: it's detailed on the wiki; i'm not ... yet Feb 03 10:19:38 cryptk|work: anyway keep talking about your efforts with the bootloader, :) i'm interested in seeing how that goes Feb 03 10:19:44 cryptk|work: glad your arm asm friend is on board :D Feb 03 10:19:52 I gotta talk to him first Feb 03 10:19:58 see if he is interested Feb 03 10:20:11 I know a little arm asm, but he is a real master of it Feb 03 10:20:40 he does alot of tooling around with beagleboards Feb 03 10:21:45 cryptk|work: excellent Feb 03 10:21:55 well email sent. failure letter will be coming tomorrow 9pdt :) Feb 03 10:22:03 s/failure/rejection/ Feb 03 10:22:03 hahaha Feb 03 10:22:04 dtzWill meant: well email sent. rejection letter will be coming tomorrow 9pdt :) Feb 03 10:22:11 man not my night for word choice accuracy Feb 03 10:22:18 s/rejection/delay in acceptance until public release/ Feb 03 10:22:25 haha Feb 03 10:22:39 too bad I can't correct your statements with infobot Feb 03 10:22:51 cryptk|work: yeah march isn't so far away anyway :) Feb 03 10:24:21 once we get a bootloader, we can run any linux made for ARM really... Feb 03 10:25:05 cryptk|work: well is the modem stuff something we could access from our own kernel? Feb 03 10:25:13 I have no clue Feb 03 10:25:28 yeah me either Feb 03 10:25:30 I don't see why we couldn't... the real question is how much work would it take Feb 03 10:25:38 heh Feb 03 10:25:44 but I think the real purpose would be to make the pre do things that we can't currently do.... Feb 03 10:25:58 why make a whole new OS to be a phone when palm has already made a phone for us Feb 03 10:26:20 cryptk|work: so it's still useful :) Feb 03 10:26:34 hrm... Feb 03 10:27:02 cryptk|work: that was a goofy comment perhaps, and i certainly don't mean to discourage awesome custom work Feb 03 10:27:03 I figure if we can get a bootloader, make the first target android... since it is already made for a phone it should be easier to port... Feb 03 10:27:15 then after that work on other linux things Feb 03 10:27:44 It would still be useful, just not as a phone... lol Feb 03 10:27:52 it would be more of a pocket PC Feb 03 10:27:57 haha Feb 03 10:28:18 and perhaps the work there would give us further insights into the phone and allow us to do more in the stock OS Feb 03 10:28:35 cryptk|work: that's what i'm hoping for :). Feb 03 10:28:44 cryptk|work: i kinda like webos hehe Feb 03 10:29:06 I do like webos too... Feb 03 10:29:18 I would mainly be doing this for the fun of it... and to explore the phone more Feb 03 10:29:25 wonder if you could have an X server in a card and load a little gnome heh Feb 03 10:29:31 haha Feb 03 10:29:40 X is a resource hog IMHO Feb 03 10:29:57 well... the way alot of people use X is a resource hog... Feb 03 10:30:04 joshua: that's a WIP by a few people afaik Feb 03 10:30:07 X itself... stripped down to it's core isn't so bad I guess Feb 03 10:30:25 joshua: i was working on it earlier today in fact :). alas i don't have enough time to throw at it but meh Feb 03 10:31:10 steal the maemo ports Feb 03 10:31:28 joshua: yep, and many many x apps that already exist Feb 03 10:31:37 so I was playing around with the WoL app... can't get it to work Feb 03 10:31:49 but I don't know if it is the app... my PC... my crappy old router Feb 03 10:32:14 I would like an full ssh client that works as well as pssh did on my treo Feb 03 10:32:21 I want to make a background service that will WoL my PC when i get in range of ym WiFi Feb 03 10:32:38 so when I get home my PC turns on for me Feb 03 10:33:07 I already have my computer automatically lock the screen when i walk away from it and unlock it when I sit back down in front of it Feb 03 10:33:20 always freaks people out how it locks and unlocks without me needing to touch it Feb 03 10:33:37 dtzWill: you should definitely request PDK access, stating what apps you have already ported. Feb 03 10:33:48 rwhitby: I think he already sent the email Feb 03 10:34:03 ever use salling clicker? Feb 03 10:34:07 rwhitby, cryptk|work yep, sent. Feb 03 10:34:20 rwhitby: glad you approve me applying hehe. maybe it's not entirely futile :) Feb 03 10:34:26 rwhitby: do you think that WIDK will pretty much go away once PDK is out? Feb 03 10:34:27 dtzWill: I know for a fact that the guy who approves PDK access loves your work. Feb 03 10:34:46 rwhitby: you know the guy? Feb 03 10:35:06 greetings I have tried to install preware via the shell Feb 03 10:35:07 rwhitby: wow. well that's really cool :). ty Feb 03 10:35:14 and it failed at the end to run the postinstall script Feb 03 10:35:34 retry: what instructions did you use? Feb 03 10:35:36 sh: can't open /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Feb 03 10:35:45 the file was never put there Feb 03 10:35:47 cryptk|work: developer relations in Palm love webos-internals stuff. they've said it a number of times in public (and hence I can report from private conversations too) Feb 03 10:35:48 cryptk|work, on the wiki Feb 03 10:35:52 at the bottom of preware Feb 03 10:35:56 just wget the sh script Feb 03 10:35:57 and ran it Feb 03 10:36:10 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Preware_Bootstrap Feb 03 10:36:13 this ^ Feb 03 10:36:26 retry: do you have a log of the run? Feb 03 10:36:40 rwhitby, I do but I honestly pasted you the ONLY error msg Feb 03 10:37:28 retry: please pastebin /tmp/preware-bootstrap.log Feb 03 10:37:50 preware release or alpha? Feb 03 10:38:00 (is there a current alpha) if not then disregard Feb 03 10:38:12 i said N to alpha cryptk|work Feb 03 10:38:14 there is no alpha at the moment Feb 03 10:38:14 ok rwhitby Feb 03 10:38:48 retry: what version of webOS ? Feb 03 10:38:59 latest? Feb 03 10:39:01 pretty sure latest Feb 03 10:39:12 "latest" is *never* a valid answer to "what version: Feb 03 10:39:19 http://webos.pastebin.com/m85df0c9 Feb 03 10:39:28 retry: what version of webOS ? Feb 03 10:39:34 uh Feb 03 10:39:54 hmm where's simplest way to get the ver? Feb 03 10:40:17 cat /etc/palm-build-info Feb 03 10:40:34 Palm webOS 1.3.5.1 Feb 03 10:40:43 ty Feb 03 10:41:34 ok, you have successfully identified a situation that has never been encountered before, and has no rational explanation. Feb 03 10:41:46 :/ Feb 03 10:41:48 but I need to put my kids to bed now, so will be back in a while to debug. Feb 03 10:41:56 could it have to do with having optware previously installed? Feb 03 10:42:05 the really early way Feb 03 10:42:34 maybe in some round about way, but I can't say for sure... rwhitby is definitely the one for this though, lol Feb 03 10:42:37 i have the whole /var/opt bind to /opt Feb 03 10:42:46 I am good for general linux questions.... Feb 03 10:43:17 wait what? you have a symlink or something? Feb 03 10:43:24 I was around a lot when I first got the pre...I did some early wiki pages before they moved it to webos internals site Feb 03 10:43:42 the old optware setup had you bind /var/opt to /opt in fstab Feb 03 10:43:52 /var/opt /opt bind defaults,noatime,bind 0 0 <-- like so Feb 03 10:44:04 and we ran ipkg-opt to get packages and update Feb 03 10:44:13 hrm... that might have something to do with it Feb 03 10:44:19 i was fine with this approach but it occurred to me that the source urls might be all out of date Feb 03 10:44:24 that was back before webOS 1.3 even wasn't it Feb 03 10:44:28 and figured I'd jump on board the gui frontend wagon Feb 03 10:44:34 oh long before cryptk|work Feb 03 10:44:40 like I said, I was an early adopter... Feb 03 10:44:46 yeah, like in the 1.0 days right? Feb 03 10:44:50 yup Feb 03 10:45:04 before the cryptofs even Feb 03 10:45:12 yeah, that may have something to do with it, but I will wait for rwhitby to give his opinion... Feb 03 10:45:24 the dir is there though Feb 03 10:45:39 sh: can't open /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Feb 03 10:45:42 from this error message Feb 03 10:45:54 /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/ exists Feb 03 10:45:56 there are files in it Feb 03 10:45:58 just not that one Feb 03 10:46:05 hrm... Feb 03 10:46:17 yeah, I am gonna bow out of this one... I have no clue, lol Feb 03 10:46:26 i see the nascar manifest in there Feb 03 10:46:44 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.pmmanifest is there Feb 03 10:46:51 so is org.webosinternals.preware.pmmanifest Feb 03 10:46:56 so they seem ot have installed Feb 03 10:47:03 I wonder what the postinst script does Feb 03 10:47:24 alright 'night guys :). gl/hf/take care Feb 03 10:47:39 so rwhitby is my only hope then? Feb 03 10:47:51 I hope he gets back soon...nearly 1am and I still have to shower Feb 03 10:47:54 rwhitby: isn't your only hope, he just knows more about it than me Feb 03 10:48:31 that and I am at work so i can only focus on IRC so much, lol Feb 03 10:49:43 you're at work at 5am? Feb 03 10:49:49 night shift Feb 03 10:49:56 what do you do? Feb 03 10:50:31 IT support, lol Feb 03 10:50:55 brb Feb 03 10:51:53 retry: ok, so let's work out what's happening here. Feb 03 10:52:01 thanks Feb 03 10:52:03 retry: how much linux experience do you have Feb 03 10:52:18 i admin 5 debian boxes? Feb 03 10:52:24 cool. Feb 03 10:52:27 I've admin'd 50 gentoo once Feb 03 10:52:28 that sucked Feb 03 10:52:49 so the postinst for ipkgservice is required to symlink the .jar file and the upstart script into the palm rootfs Feb 03 10:53:02 i see Feb 03 10:53:10 so there should be something in /etc/event.d for it Feb 03 10:53:18 ipkg installs the scripts into /media/cryptofs/apps/.... and then the postinst needs to be run to move the files to /etc/event.d/ and other places Feb 03 10:53:29 aha Feb 03 10:53:54 so, can you pastebin the output of mount please? Feb 03 10:53:59 so while you were gone, rwhitby, i was telling cryptk|work how I was an early adopter of optware Feb 03 10:54:08 and have the old /var/opt /opt bind in fstab Feb 03 10:54:09 sure thing Feb 03 10:54:22 do you want mount or /etc/fstab? Feb 03 10:54:42 retry: yeah, I remember you from the devwiki days Feb 03 10:54:48 :D Feb 03 10:54:58 mount I guess Feb 03 10:54:59 http://webos.pastebin.com/m678bbf9b Feb 03 10:55:02 here's mount Feb 03 10:55:54 rwhitby, the postinst file should be in the ipk archive right? Feb 03 10:55:59 ok, can you do "ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps files org.webosinternals.ipkgservice" and make sure that all the files it lists actually exist? Feb 03 10:56:01 can I use ipkg to list the files in there? Feb 03 10:56:07 sure Feb 03 10:56:14 retry: yes, it should, but ipkg files will not show the postinst Feb 03 10:56:23 oh Feb 03 10:56:48 actually, is the ipkgservice ipk file still in /tmp ? Feb 03 10:57:26 mickey|zzZzzz, ping Feb 03 10:57:33 retry: if so, can you double check the md5sum? Feb 03 10:57:34 50da8fa71ba85d6c3bd3f2528fccfcb9 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.9.34_all.ipk Feb 03 10:58:10 for i in `ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps files org.webosinternals.ipkgservice`; do if [ ! -f $i ]; then echo $i; fi; done Feb 03 10:58:20 ran that and didn't list any files...just non file related stuff Feb 03 10:58:25 md5sum check Feb 03 10:58:46 matches Feb 03 10:59:26 rwhitby, maybe dumb Q but could it have anything to do with perms on my /media/internal mount? Feb 03 10:59:41 i set that to my regular user UID Feb 03 10:59:47 don't see why that would do it since I ran this as root Feb 03 11:00:03 I'm just throwing out anything odd from olden days Feb 03 11:00:49 oh, who know what that would do for the cryptofs area. Feb 03 11:01:07 hey Feb 03 11:01:09 apps/opt/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinstinst Feb 03 11:01:17 found this under /media/cryptofs Feb 03 11:01:41 it's opt not usr Feb 03 11:02:05 ah, you've screwed with $PATH to put /opt first, right? Feb 03 11:02:16 oh yeah most likely Feb 03 11:02:32 /usr/local/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/opt/sbin Feb 03 11:03:02 do you have an ipkg in /usr/bin ? Feb 03 11:03:32 yes Feb 03 11:04:01 retry: wget the updated script and re-run it Feb 03 11:04:11 updated? same path? Feb 03 11:04:14 yep Feb 03 11:05:16 hoo ray Feb 03 11:05:19 that did it Feb 03 11:05:22 make sure you remove the old file, if you wget and a file exists I think it creates a new file with .1 added to the filename Feb 03 11:05:35 err nevermind Feb 03 11:05:35 heh Feb 03 11:05:37 joshua, actually it just said it wouldn't fetch it Feb 03 11:05:47 busybox wget Feb 03 11:05:50 ok tyvm rwhitby, now how do I remove teh old failed install? Feb 03 11:05:53 oh that crazy busybox Feb 03 11:06:10 tell me about it Feb 03 11:06:17 I like lftp, its multipurpose Feb 03 11:06:18 retry: /opt/bin/ipkg list Feb 03 11:06:25 retry: and remove the ones that shouldn't be there Feb 03 11:06:30 using /opt/bin/ipkg Feb 03 11:06:47 (probably just preware and ipkgservice) Feb 03 11:06:47 that's my default by path Feb 03 11:06:51 list or list_installed? Feb 03 11:06:52 joshua: that is why I use a different command than what is listed on the preware page Feb 03 11:07:04 no I got lots of stuff Feb 03 11:07:05 bash Feb 03 11:07:07 openssh Feb 03 11:07:10 retry: yeah, list_installed Feb 03 11:07:17 sudo nano Feb 03 11:07:19 etc Feb 03 11:07:24 retry: no, I mean probably only remove preware and ipkgservice Feb 03 11:07:28 oh Feb 03 11:07:39 they aren't there Feb 03 11:07:46 I have OLD optware ipkg setup Feb 03 11:07:52 doesn't use cryptofs Feb 03 11:08:09 a frankenpre Feb 03 11:08:50 early adopter curse Feb 03 11:09:29 I have files in here: /media/cryptofs/apps/opt/lib/ipkg/info Feb 03 11:09:59 retry: ok, run /opt/bin/ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed Feb 03 11:10:11 and then the same -o for remove Feb 03 11:10:52 you may want to re-run the script afterwards, just in cas Feb 03 11:10:52 e Feb 03 11:10:58 I'm removing both ipk ? Feb 03 11:11:02 yep Feb 03 11:12:31 that removed the opt ones and left the usr ones Feb 03 11:12:35 hmm how did it know? Feb 03 11:12:40 the -o Feb 03 11:13:03 but we didn't specify opt over usr Feb 03 11:13:19 you did by running /opt/bin/ipkg instead of /usr/bin/ipk Feb 03 11:13:21 g Feb 03 11:13:24 can you tell me what the event.d scripts are called? Feb 03 11:13:30 AH Feb 03 11:13:33 same as the package name Feb 03 11:13:46 oh just the ipkgservice one then Feb 03 11:13:56 we always name upstart scripts the same as the package name, for uniqueness Feb 03 11:14:17 sounds like a plan Feb 03 11:14:23 so all my current legacy optware stuff Feb 03 11:14:29 stops collisions with Palm files too Feb 03 11:14:38 that I have installed in the old way...that is not compatible with the preware GUI app's installation? Feb 03 11:14:51 so it won't think I have bash and nano and dropbear installed will it Feb 03 11:15:12 I'd log in via novaterm, remove /opt completely, remove the bind mount from /etc/fstab, and then install openssh-sftp-server from Preware Feb 03 11:15:32 oh Feb 03 11:15:35 (and use ssh keys and root for everything) Feb 03 11:15:45 why ssh keys? Feb 03 11:16:01 cause you can't enter a password via a preware install Feb 03 11:16:10 and we don't want an iphone worm repeat performance on Pres Feb 03 11:16:43 you can't enter a password? Feb 03 11:16:55 i have iptables blocking ssh from the WAN Feb 03 11:17:03 i mean sprint connection Feb 03 11:17:09 you can edit the upstart script if you choose Feb 03 11:17:10 only via wifi Feb 03 11:17:22 it's ssh keys and root by default Feb 03 11:17:27 I find keys more convienient anyway Feb 03 11:17:27 ah Feb 03 11:17:41 yeah I sometimes use keys Feb 03 11:17:43 depends on the machine Feb 03 11:18:06 hmm preware is not booting up Feb 03 11:18:10 nor is package manager Feb 03 11:18:32 on a side note, I find it amazing that you have gone that long without a doctor... Feb 03 11:18:37 retry: did you re-run the script after doing the removes? Feb 03 11:18:51 oh no I thought maybe I could get away with not doing it... Feb 03 11:18:53 I'll do it Feb 03 11:19:19 lol... you're gonna bring out the rwhitby-monstar! Feb 03 11:19:41 the dbs were in different places, but the files would have been in the same place, so would have been removed. Feb 03 11:19:44 well he did say 'may want to ' Feb 03 11:20:08 that is true Feb 03 11:20:10 still not working :/ Feb 03 11:20:21 the icons get shiny for a few seconds then nothing Feb 03 11:20:37 luna rescan? Feb 03 11:20:42 script does that Feb 03 11:20:45 built into the script Feb 03 11:20:51 ahh Feb 03 11:21:00 script is supposed to be foolproof Feb 03 11:21:03 is anything logged? Feb 03 11:21:10 as you said...frankenpre Feb 03 11:21:12 retry: you can try /var/log/messages Feb 03 11:21:18 it was, until retry told you to retry at making it foolproof, lol Feb 03 11:21:21 hmm I did ...didn't see anything Feb 03 11:21:45 retry: does initctl status say that ipkgservice is running? Feb 03 11:21:52 let me put a tail -f on messages one sec Feb 03 11:22:01 even if it wasn't, preware should start and complain Feb 03 11:22:18 nothing in messages Feb 03 11:23:00 (37390/182838958) org.webosinternals.ipkgservice (stop) waiting Feb 03 11:23:17 hmm I started it Feb 03 11:23:23 it's not forked to bg though Feb 03 11:23:34 oh wait it died Feb 03 11:23:43 it ran for a while though Feb 03 11:23:54 all it does is send a luna-send to the java service Feb 03 11:24:11 it's supposed to stop after that? Feb 03 11:24:15 but if there is an error in the upstart script before it gets to that, then you're stuffed. Feb 03 11:24:36 yeah still nothing's working Feb 03 11:24:41 and the only way to debug that is to strace PID 1 Feb 03 11:24:57 PID 1? Feb 03 11:25:04 the upstart script is also supposed to be foolproof ;-) Feb 03 11:25:07 oh upstart Feb 03 11:25:19 there's no logging anywhere else? Feb 03 11:25:24 debugging upstart script failures sucks Feb 03 11:25:48 cost me days of pulling out hair around webOS 1.2.x Feb 03 11:26:29 sounds most unpleasant Feb 03 11:26:31 you can do the luna-send command from the upstart script manually to see whether the service is running Feb 03 11:26:58 now, what was I meant to be doing tonight ... Feb 03 11:27:15 that's right. Preware vs app catalog locking. Feb 03 11:28:14 luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/status '{}' Feb 03 11:28:15 this one? Feb 03 11:28:35 there are lines that say logger? Feb 03 11:28:39 where do those log to Feb 03 11:28:56 return val of the luna cmd is ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"returnValue":true} Feb 03 11:29:18 still nothing :/ Feb 03 11:29:57 that says the service is working Feb 03 11:30:09 yeah it seems happy Feb 03 11:30:18 so preware should be able to talk to it Feb 03 11:31:07 does the process show up in a ps aux? Feb 03 11:31:10 what would I look for? Feb 03 11:31:52 oh there's a whomping great java process running Feb 03 11:32:10 /usr/lib/luna/java/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.jar this is buried in it Feb 03 11:33:44 rwhitby, any idea how else to proceed? Feb 03 11:34:22 maybe if I just removed the opt stuff from my PATH and reinstalled it might work alright Feb 03 11:35:03 what happens when you tap on the preware icon? Feb 03 11:35:20 it gives me the shiny icon for a few seconds then stops Feb 03 11:36:38 and nothing in /var/log/messages? Feb 03 11:37:36 nope nothing at all Feb 03 11:38:06 ok, run "dbus-util --capture org.webosinternals.ipkgservice" while hitting the preware ion Feb 03 11:38:08 icon Feb 03 11:39:06 nothing :| Feb 03 11:41:29 rwhitby, is there at least a way to get pkg updates with ipkg? I worry that my source lists are out of date and so might be my packages Feb 03 11:42:47 hmm pastebin wont let me paste the contents of optware.conf Feb 03 11:42:56 compains about spam Feb 03 11:43:52 the urls in my old optware.conf definitely do not match the newer ones for ipkgservice Feb 03 11:44:16 mine are pointing to http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/ Feb 03 11:48:53 all this work, I would have just doctored and reinstalled preware. heh Feb 03 11:49:12 well that may be my only hope at this point Feb 03 11:49:18 I certainly don't know how to fix it on my own Feb 03 11:49:41 I'm examining feeds right now...looks like the old optware sources are keeping up to date Feb 03 11:50:50 I don't know why Preware won't start - that's pure webOS at that point. Feb 03 11:51:37 maybe I should just try a reboot...why not Feb 03 11:51:43 can't possibly hurt Feb 03 11:51:58 ....watch as I brick it Feb 03 11:52:09 http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/preware/ticket/18 and I'm done for the night. Feb 03 11:52:13 retry: have fun. Feb 03 11:52:42 * rwhitby bbt Feb 03 11:53:02 alright thanks for all your help... Feb 03 11:53:20 I sure hope I can solve this without doctoring Feb 03 11:54:09 kinda interesting comparing this: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ Feb 03 11:54:17 to http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/optware/armv7/ Feb 03 11:54:39 first one is the old optware feed and latter is the one preware/ipkgservice uses Feb 03 11:55:08 same version of openssl Feb 03 11:55:23 openssh versions are SLIGHTLY different ...not sure it's a big deal Feb 03 11:56:28 oh hey reboot fixed everything :D Feb 03 11:56:38 the package manager icon went away but preware stayed and booted up Feb 03 12:03:59 hmm there is a beta chess.com app Feb 03 12:06:56 retry: good stuff man Feb 03 12:07:14 yeah who'd have thought reboot would fix it Feb 03 12:07:22 but that seems to fix everything with the pre Feb 03 13:27:16 time to go home, later WHE's and WHE-ettes Feb 03 13:27:23 (that last part was you dtzWill) Feb 03 14:09:27 Got it anybody managed to call the luna-send tool remotely over the usb cable? Would make the things a lot easier Feb 03 14:56:02 dreadwyre-: uh, can't you just use novacom / novaterm to connect to a shell on the pre and run it there? Feb 03 14:57:10 destinal: would love to automate it. For example bring the palm pre to USB mode using a simple desktop shortcut and start mp3 sync Feb 03 15:01:11 dreadwyre-: for mp3's I'd just use usbnet and dropbear or openssh server on the pre and scp your stuff across. for other things? sure, you can script any commands you want into the device using the novacom protocol, there's not any really easy interface for doing so at this point Feb 03 15:05:29 dreadwyre- what is it you're wanting to sync? You want to auto-sync the mp3 folder on your desktop to the pre? Feb 03 15:08:04 Rick_work: Yes. I wan't to sync iTunes using itunes agent. I wanted to make it work using only one click and avoid touching my pre (like an iPhone) :-) Feb 03 15:10:31 dreadwyre- I sort of understand. I hate what itunes does in terms of folders and files arrangement, but if you're used to it and like it, then that's good. Feb 03 15:11:07 Here's my question to you tho. Are the itunes files physically arranged on the desktop in a single, or a small set of folders? Feb 03 15:11:44 Rick_work: Can export it in both ways. Feb 03 15:12:04 that wasn't my question. On the desktop, are they clustered, or not? Feb 03 15:12:30 Rick_work: The iTunes folder itself is clustered. Feb 03 15:14:12 dreadwyre- then here's what _I_ would do. I would enable USBNET on the pre and on your desktop, and instead of using itunes internal sync, I would set up an rsync that sync'ed your music folder onto the Pre when you plug it in. One click. Are you on a mac or a windows box? Feb 03 15:14:44 Rick_work: Windows. But with one big limitation: No Wifi. :-( Feb 03 15:15:16 dreadwyre- that's why I said USBNET -- so that you can do network transfers over the usb plug WITHOUT putting the pre into usb mode. Feb 03 15:17:17 as a matter of fact, if you wanted to get fancy, xorg has figured out how to run samba on the pre, and you could just MOUNT media/internal/music as a shared drive on your windows box and see it as for example drive P: if you enabled samba and usbnet on the pre. Feb 03 15:17:40 without doing anything special in terms of running software on the pre, just plug it in, and it would "be there" Feb 03 15:17:59 xorg has this all worked out. You may want to drop in tonight when he's around. Feb 03 15:18:16 since he doesn't seem to be responding just now. Feb 03 15:18:26 Rick_work: That sounds interesting. Usbnet was the term missing in my mind. You guys rock. Feb 03 15:18:42 dreadwyre- check the wiki for usbnet and for xorg tools Feb 03 15:20:04 i'm actually quite impressed usbnet works so well on win7 with no drivers Feb 03 15:23:01 actually you don't need samba to just mount Feb 03 15:23:04 as a client Feb 03 15:23:14 cifs support is built into the webos kernel Feb 03 15:23:29 you only need to install samba for server side on webos Feb 03 15:24:20 see... http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Backup_Media_Drive_over_WiFi Feb 03 15:25:57 i missed the original request, just singed in Feb 03 15:43:54 ~seen schulman Feb 03 15:43:58 schulman <~schulman@216-164-55-17.c3-0.ses-ubr3.lnh-ses.md.cable.rcn.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 8h 44m 28s ago, saying: 'i see'. Feb 03 15:44:37 morning Feb 03 16:20:31 hey egaudet acydlord told me theres a way to get verizon rom on to a sprint palm pre? Feb 03 16:22:59 you can metadoctor any of the doctors, bypassing carrier check but trying to use a sprint pre on verizon network I have no clue about Feb 03 16:26:38 I wonder if flashing to Verizon will corrupt the radio Feb 03 16:26:45 well i've already unlocked it to do that.. it's just the data is a little screwy (cut in and out a lot) so i'm thinking if i put a verizon webos on here it would work better but i can't seem to get it to work Feb 03 16:32:36 is there different hardware on the verizon pre? because i go to run webos doctor after i've ran it through meta doctor and everything and if gives me an error Feb 03 16:34:35 it has more RAM and Flash Feb 03 16:35:21 i used the meta doctor with REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK and REMOVE_MODEL_CHECK (and DISABLE_MODEM_UPDATE) Feb 03 16:35:21 is AppConstants something that's globally part of the mojo framework or is this a controller/model file I should be looking for :/ Feb 03 16:35:25 likely a different set of serials too Feb 03 16:35:26 and got no errors Feb 03 16:35:44 VincentLaw: where do you see it used? Feb 03 16:36:04 egaudet_work: Pandora app, I'm trying to track down what's wrong with its ad service Feb 03 16:36:17 thank you Feb 03 16:36:19 is it a part of pandora app? Feb 03 16:36:56 there's lots of calls to things like: AppConstants.EVENT_ON_DISPLAY_NOW_PLAYING_AD in Pandora app, but I don't see where those constants are defined Feb 03 16:37:52 I'm not trying to disable the ads (that's surprisingly easy but immoral) I'm trying to get it to not display the ads ONLY if there are no ads to display/broken ads Feb 03 16:38:26 which has sort of left me on a goose chase through the code to find out where it's fouling up Feb 03 16:44:27 man this is too weird. these constants are the only thing I can't find Feb 03 16:45:46 they are magical Feb 03 16:46:26 they probably are >.> Feb 03 16:46:36 I can find /appGlobals/ but that's not the same thing :/ Feb 03 16:49:00 (there's some interesting palm APIs in here too, lawl) Feb 03 16:52:06 like? Feb 03 16:53:16 heh I thought it was bad taste to paste code in here from palm apps but stuff like hijackVolumeControls Feb 03 16:53:41 although that might be just to change from alarm to music volume, didn't look into it Feb 03 16:54:36 and good god, I hope this isn't it. I think it might be in the pandora api where the AppConstant is defined. the API is the only js file that's obfuscated Feb 03 16:55:18 obfuscation in pandora app? Feb 03 16:55:24 yeah, just in the API Feb 03 16:55:27 nothing else is Feb 03 16:55:44 presumably to protect it from people trying to make their own pandora apps :p Feb 03 16:55:50 well then yeah that's where it is :P Feb 03 16:56:03 Is it possible to navigate a webOS menu with the keyboard? I need to reset my Pre to factory, but I can't use the bloody touchscreen. :/ Feb 03 16:56:18 maybe I'll doctor. Feb 03 16:56:20 you got me curious, so i extracted it Feb 03 16:56:22 no, tlp, but you can doctor Feb 03 16:56:28 didn't think so. thanks Feb 03 16:56:33 and i see var|AppConstants in the obfuscation :P Feb 03 16:56:45 egaudet_work: api.js is the only obfuscation. yeah, thats why I said :p Feb 03 16:56:50 and the constant names are after that Feb 03 16:57:11 which honestly is fine enough, since all I need is those constants to see what they're doing as far as ads go Feb 03 16:58:27 egaudet i'm not sure whats going on i just ran the patched webos doctor with the flags you said and when I get to 6% and my pre resets it gives me the error "your device is not compatible with this version of webos doctor" Feb 03 16:58:58 Joely: then it sounds like the options for skipping the carrier / model checks didn't work rightr Feb 03 16:59:28 is there something i'm possibly overlooking? Feb 03 17:00:19 did you follow the metadoctor wiki? Feb 03 17:00:51 yeah i have to uncomment it in the makefile right? Feb 03 17:00:56 yeah Feb 03 17:01:04 and then put what version of doctor you want to use Feb 03 17:01:21 and then run make CARRIER=sprint unpack patch pack Feb 03 17:01:21 in the download folder rename it.. yeah? Feb 03 17:01:47 the resultant doctor is in build/ Feb 03 17:01:51 what is the closest linux distro to webos? Feb 03 17:02:01 wouldn't carrier=verizonwireless? Feb 03 17:02:58 grr, handler must be in the api as well. now I have to skip a hop and find out what handler does >.> Feb 03 17:03:52 my Pre crashed last night while I was asleep. it became completely non-responsive. I had to pull the battery to get it to boot again. Feb 03 17:04:07 do i have to uncomment it AND put it in my make command or just uncomment in the make file? Feb 03 17:05:25 yea CARRIER=verizonwireless sorry Feb 03 17:06:01 uncomment the options in the makefile, save Feb 03 17:06:14 then make CARRIER=verizonwireless unpack patch pack Feb 03 17:07:16 okay Feb 03 17:10:57 destinal-pre: btw, what type of thing do you envision needing a custom hidd plugin Feb 03 17:18:24 wow, this would be embarrassing for palm if this is true. I think it may be parsing the ad JSON incorrectly Feb 03 17:18:49 I'm trying to echo out the imageUrl for the ad, but it comes up blank (not null! just blank) Feb 03 17:19:04 the native json parser in the v8 in 1.3.5.1 was broken Feb 03 17:19:13 orly? Feb 03 17:19:22 maybe that's why this ad service is broken then! Feb 03 17:19:42 specifically, digit id's like { 1: "xxx" } didn't work Feb 03 17:19:47 at all Feb 03 17:19:56 oh Feb 03 17:19:56 and you had to use prototypes json parse instead. Feb 03 17:20:04 1.4 will fix that Feb 03 17:20:22 Rick_work: "was" broken? so it's still broken? Feb 03 17:20:28 they're using rawJSON Feb 03 17:21:00 was in the sense that when 1.3.5.1 was shiped, the v8 was broken. We are reliably informed that 1.4 will fix that. Feb 03 17:21:14 and this json response doesn't seem to use digit ids, it's instead something like: "imageUrl":"http://BLARG.COM/AD.JPG" Feb 03 17:21:36 yes, but is there any thing ELSE in the json? Feb 03 17:21:48 yes, no digit ids though Feb 03 17:22:09 there's "imageUrl", "clickUrl", "impressionUrl". That's it Feb 03 17:24:04 so if it only affects JSON with digit IDs I don't think that's the issue here Feb 03 17:26:17 woh Feb 03 17:26:22 okay now this is weird Feb 03 17:26:31 I gotta test this Feb 03 17:26:57 I seem to be having trouble installing freetetherd. It comes up and talks about "Clearing state_want..." and a return value of 4, and something about Cannot find package us.ryanhope.freetetherd. What does it all mean? What am I doing wrong? Feb 03 17:27:14 (That is using WebOS Quick Install) Feb 03 17:28:44 lyht: How are you trying to install it? Feb 03 17:29:30 and which version of freetetherd are you trying to install? Feb 03 17:30:23 wow Feb 03 17:30:28 I have tried dragging the ipk into WebOS Quick install, I have tried downloading it through the test feed, I have even tried using the SDK install script. This is version 0.0.3_armv7 for the pre Feb 03 17:31:27 which version of quickinstall are you using? Feb 03 17:32:03 does this make sense, Rick_work / egaudet_work? when the Pre retrieves Pandora's ad JSON, the imageUrl in that JSON resposne (even before being parsed!) is "", empty. However, if I request that exact same JSON on my server via wget, imageUrl is NOT ="", it has a URL. Feb 03 17:32:03 :P 2.96. I should go get 3 shouldn't i. Feb 03 17:32:19 it's 3.01 and yes try getting that Feb 03 17:34:27 sigh... same error. something weird on the phone? Feb 03 17:37:05 I am able to use quickinstall to install other stuff just fine. Feb 03 17:37:15 this is the only ipk I get an error on. Feb 03 17:37:58 VincentLaw: how are you determing what's in the JSON Feb 03 17:38:31 lyht: use the preware test feed Feb 03 17:38:42 egaudet_work: I am Mojo.Log.error and tailing the variables as it goes down through the JSON Feb 03 17:39:18 like, when it requests teh JSON, I log the URL. (that's what I wget'd). I logged the response it got back, and the parsed json as well Feb 03 17:39:33 it gets a proper json response, it just has imageUrl and clickUrl blank. the rest of it is /fine/. Feb 03 17:39:46 egaudet_work, just tried that again, and it still doesn't work. I get the same error. Feb 03 17:39:50 you dump the whole json and see "imageUrl": "" Feb 03 17:40:28 lyht: what error upon doing what? Feb 03 17:41:26 egaudet: yes, I see just that Feb 03 17:41:33 here, I'll paste you the whole response, its a long 1 line Feb 03 17:41:44 {"imageUrl":"","backgroundColor":"000000","clickUrl":"","impressionUrl":"http://ad.doubleclick.net/imp;v7;x;221735682;0-0;0;38357216;320/50;35184601/35202419/1;;~aopt=2/0/ff/1;~okv=;ag=24;gnd=1;zip=45140;genre=rock;dma=515;clean=0;hours=0;artist=;sz=320x50;~cs=f%3f"} Feb 03 17:42:18 egaudet, ERROR: an error occured while attempting to install us.ryanhope.freetetherd_0.0.3_armv7.ipk (using the feed to download the ipk in quickinstall) Feb 03 17:42:21 see what I mean? that's what the pre gets in from the request. however, when I wget the same request, I /do/ have something in imageUrl Feb 03 17:43:02 lyht: using the feed in QI is NOT what I suggested Feb 03 17:43:28 oh. Sorry, I missed that... Feb 03 17:43:43 preware. Gotcha, gonna try. Feb 03 17:43:47 VincentLaw: this is directly from the server response? Feb 03 17:43:53 yes, egaudet Feb 03 17:43:57 OT: anyone have a valid verizon.net email addy? Feb 03 17:44:00 no processing on it at all at that point Feb 03 17:44:04 VincentLaw how are you requesting it? Feb 03 17:45:00 not /me/, pandora/palm Feb 03 17:45:08 nodnodnod Feb 03 17:45:13 var request = new Ajax.Request Feb 03 17:45:50 (url, { method: 'get', onSuccess: this.nowPlayingCallback.bind(this) }); Feb 03 17:46:05 ((((((((removed newlines)))))))) Feb 03 17:46:13 VincentLaw -- let me try again. -- on your desktop, you are running some code which places that request, and which gets a response. Is it charcacter for character the exact same code as the request on the pre? Feb 03 17:46:43 when I make the request on my desktop, I am doing wget url. Feb 03 17:46:52 so no, I am not doing Ajax.Request Feb 03 17:46:58 I am doing wget Feb 03 17:47:11 VincentLaw if you wget the URL in novaterm on the pre, do you get the same thing you get on the desktop? Feb 03 17:47:20 good question, let me try Feb 03 17:48:24 wget errors out on the pre, weird Feb 03 17:48:30 wget: bad header line: Feb 03 17:48:38 right Feb 03 17:48:41 because it is. Feb 03 17:48:49 so what does that mean then Feb 03 17:49:11 well, let's go a layer further. What address are you wgetting? what url are you hitting? Feb 03 17:49:42 http://ad.doubleclick.net/pfadx/pand.palm/prod.nowplaying;ag=24;gnd=1;zip=45140;genre=rock;dma=515;clean=0;hours=0;artist=;sz=320x50;ord=1265218740352 <--- an example URL as provided by Mojo.Log.error(url) on the pre Feb 03 17:51:51 huh Feb 03 17:51:58 that doesn't return a json object for me. Feb 03 17:52:07 what does it return? Feb 03 17:52:13 working on it Feb 03 17:52:15 wait please. Feb 03 17:52:20 okay :D Feb 03 17:53:25 How do I enable wifi from command line? Feb 03 17:53:31 it returns a video-x-ms-asf object Feb 03 17:53:48 Rick_work: yes, I'm aware of that. I was weirded out by that as well, when I did the URL in firefox Feb 03 17:53:53 that's why I went to wget Feb 03 17:54:27 ok, wait one Feb 03 17:56:56 * VincentLaw plays the Jeopardy tune Feb 03 17:57:37 {"impressionUrl":"http://ad.doubleclick.net/imp;v7;x;207316569;0-0;0;38357216;320/50;28227293/28245172/1;;~aopt=2/0/ff/1;~okv=;ag=24;gnd=1;zip=45140;genre=rock;dma=515;clean=0;hours=0;artist=;sz=320x50;~cs=g%3f448431"} Feb 03 17:58:08 VincentLaw here's a suggestion. Feb 03 17:58:51 make a div in your pre scene called "debug" and in the onsuccess of the ajax request, do $('debug').innerHTML = request.text; Feb 03 17:59:09 and look at it there instead of in log. Feb 03 17:59:25 I have to go to meet my sponsor for lunch. I'll be back in an hour. Feb 03 18:01:29 ok :/ Feb 03 18:06:48 yeah, I think something is going on during the AJAXRequest, or the server-side with Pandora Feb 03 18:07:07 egaudet_work, I am not seeing free tether in preware. is the webos internals test feed not in there by default? Can I add a feed? Feb 03 18:07:27 lyht: no, it is not on by default Feb 03 18:08:01 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds to turn it on Feb 03 18:08:25 I recommend not leaving it on after you've gotten what you wanted. Feb 03 18:09:55 when I added a check for imageUrl="", the ad boxes no longer display brokenly. I think for now, this is the best I can do. I think I'll submit a patch for this, and hopefully palm/pandora can fix the ads properly on their side later. right now as it is I don't see any way to get the ads to work right with our resources. Feb 03 18:10:23 this shouldn't break the ads should they ever start working, which is good. Feb 03 18:16:06 any patch creators in here? what's the best method for making a patch, I've never done one before. I've got the unified diff creator already going, just curious if there's a process to doing all of this correctly. Feb 03 18:21:52 what's the "unified diff creator" ? Feb 03 18:22:13 how long do people think it will be before free tether is released? Feb 03 18:22:19 that worked! I got it install and all is working. Thanks everyone for your help Feb 03 18:22:32 jacques: jason's app for making patch files Feb 03 18:22:55 * Lumiere wonders if "unified diff creator" is some windows app that runs diff -u Feb 03 18:23:06 Lumiere: lol I was just windering the same thing Feb 03 18:23:41 essentially, with a bit of metadata handling :p Feb 03 18:23:55 but it's nice for people like me who don't have diff installed :p Feb 03 18:24:23 and it's a jar, not a windows specific app! :p Feb 03 18:37:12 VincentLaw: it's windows specific :P Feb 03 18:37:23 windows is the only one without diff Feb 03 18:37:35 and no one creates patches with a GUI outside of Windows Feb 03 18:38:12 :p Feb 03 18:38:16 okay, well sue me :D Feb 03 18:38:38 * egaudet_work calls my lawyer Feb 03 18:39:11 http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/228692-patch-pandora-ad-fix.html there's my patch Feb 03 18:39:32 I'll submit it for preware once some others say its ok. Kinda nervous, first patch submission >.> Feb 03 18:39:36 even if it is a 1 liner >.> Feb 03 19:03:37 NOW WITH MORE COWBELL@ Feb 03 19:03:51 * Mousey huggles oil Feb 03 19:06:49 wat Feb 03 19:08:47 is there a way with Upstart to monitor if the camera app opens/closes (or any webos app for that matter)? Feb 03 19:10:19 hmm infobot is MIA again Feb 03 19:14:42 hiya Feb 03 19:20:33 infobot: status Feb 03 19:20:35 Since Tue Feb 2 02:10:03 2010, there have been 28 modifications, 123 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 49 commands. I have been awake for 1d 17h 10m 30s this session, and currently reference 116805 factoids. I'm using about 20936 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3652.92/131.62 child 0.37/0.12 Feb 03 19:23:53 xorg: You don't want to be thinking Upstart , you want to be thinking in the scope of Luna/dbus Feb 03 19:24:28 I don't know the exact service off hand but I' fairly certain you can subscribe to some method that notifies of an app launching, closing, active etc... Feb 03 19:24:55 want to trigger script when camera closes... but don't want to have another daemon checking all the time... icould look at luna looks i suppose Feb 03 19:25:11 try a dbus-util --capture and see what services are saying about the app opening/closing Feb 03 19:25:28 yeah, done that.. Feb 03 19:25:45 looks=logs Feb 03 19:25:53 What specifically are you trying to do btw? Feb 03 19:26:49 a variation of the mediabackup using cifs.... setup a share for photos on a pc. when you take a picture (or close the camera app), the script does its cifs mount thing and sends pic to pc Feb 03 19:28:14 so i need to find when cam closes, but was hoping to use an existing daemon like upstart rather have yet another daemon running. Feb 03 19:30:27 looked into the inotify method that you mentioned, to see if the dcim folder changes, but don't want to have to install inotify-tools... or are there inotify commands on webos? Feb 03 19:33:01 we do need to come up with a way to get shell and luna/mojo talking to each other and just have one deamon instead of a bunch of webosinternal daemons for each app. Feb 03 19:33:35 this does not sound like something you want to do with upstart Feb 03 19:34:04 upstart shouldn't be very heavy just kick off some daemon or do something necessary on each start of the service Feb 03 19:34:05 yeah, was trying to think of a way with upstart, haven't come up with a way. Feb 03 19:34:16 I'd say this is a job for C service maybe Feb 03 19:34:36 yeah, am trying to avoid that. Feb 03 19:34:40 Why? Feb 03 19:35:09 service as a daemon? Feb 03 19:35:25 ? Feb 03 19:35:36 technically all C services are a part of some daemon yes Feb 03 19:36:08 i if could plug into an existing daemon to poll the dbus... i'm trying to avoid a new daemon Feb 03 19:36:21 you don't poll the dbus Feb 03 19:36:28 you get events Feb 03 19:37:09 VincentLaw back -- any luck? Feb 03 19:37:41 will think that through.. thanks Feb 03 19:37:51 what specifically do you need a shell script for? Feb 03 19:39:08 You can make a daemon, written in C, that is kicked off by upstart and subscribes to various dbus services for specific events you need to trigger something Feb 03 19:39:16 it's something i'm planning to add in xorg tools... cam pics get rsync to photo share on pc... Feb 03 19:39:24 rather than a shell script running and polling things Feb 03 19:39:31 egaudet_work: new hidd plugins would allow us to add new peripherals to a pre or to an emulator. Whether these peripherals are tied to real hardware or software on another computer, the same principle applies Feb 03 19:39:42 bluetooth and usb keyboards to start with Feb 03 19:40:10 also we could give the emulator a lot of "real" hardware to make it more useful to testing certain things without a pre Feb 03 19:40:23 yup, understand writing a new daemon... all these daemons we're addding... trying add yet another one. am hoping to tag onto an exissting one, but not likely it appears. Feb 03 19:40:25 like accelerometers, switches, sensors, buttons, Feb 03 19:40:28 webcam :P Feb 03 19:40:33 yup Feb 03 19:40:44 that last may not be hidd but you get the picture Feb 03 19:41:15 xorg: I'm just confused because I don't know your specific scope, but a daemon is just something running in the background. LunaSysMgr is a HUGE daemon that does a ton of stuff Feb 03 19:41:32 egaudet_work: I want to create a virtual touchscreen based on a TUIO listener daemon Feb 03 19:41:47 * Lumiere would love a usb keyboard for pre! Feb 03 19:41:49 so you could use real external multitouch hardware to drive the emulator Feb 03 19:42:23 that would be cool Feb 03 19:42:23 sure, i understand... just don't want to clog webos with more daemons always running Feb 03 19:42:36 xorg: a C service is not always running Feb 03 19:42:47 in the sense that it's taking up resources Feb 03 19:43:03 will look into it Feb 03 19:43:04 it is event driven, not constantly running and polling Feb 03 19:44:38 Lumiere: I'm working on the actual usb host mode part of that as well, there's a usb OTG chipset in the pre, so we should be able to interface usb devices, but while I have gotten an external usb keyboard to power up / draw power from the pre with OTG mode and a micro-A cable I haven't gotten any to successfully enumerate (detect) Feb 03 19:45:00 destinal: ah Feb 03 19:45:18 destinal: I'd love to be able to use the pre as a usb host for a dSLR Feb 03 19:45:59 id love to be able to plug in my memorys tick Feb 03 19:46:13 i'm voting for the usb missile launcher~ Feb 03 19:46:16 destinal: so the same type of thing would be used to get a USB keyboard's input into Luna as I want to get the VKB to do Feb 03 19:46:28 egaudet_work: exactly Feb 03 19:47:27 so very much to do, so little time :p Feb 03 19:47:36 destinal: this sounds really cool "I want to create a virtual touchscreen based on a TUIO listener daemon ... so you could use real external multitouch hardware to drive the emulator" Feb 03 19:47:38 for your VKB I think the hidd plugin could be connected to a daemon which also is a luna service Feb 03 19:48:11 so the mojo app sends key events to the service which stuffs them into hidd Feb 03 19:48:23 right Feb 03 19:48:30 on a totally unrelated note Feb 03 19:48:32 * Lumiere had issues with with his pre last night in the snow XD Feb 03 19:48:43 but this would also require attaching to whatever the current keypad hidd is sending out Feb 03 19:48:44 the flakes were actually registering as clicks Feb 03 19:49:23 destinal: if we could get the touchscreen + emulator thing working by SCALE it would make a great booth demo Feb 03 19:49:30 jacques: yeah, I'm excited about the possibilities, we just need to reverse engineer hidd plugins. right now the plugin offers one function when dynamically loaded that returns a callback table of functions Feb 03 19:49:49 well a struct that I think is a callback table maybe with some additional data Feb 03 19:50:03 which I'm not sure quite the best way to decipher Feb 03 19:50:03 use an iphone to drive a Pre emulator :p Feb 03 19:50:43 destinal: I assume we don't have source to any of these hidd plugins ? Feb 03 19:50:51 jacques: you assume correctly Feb 03 19:50:51 destinal: where are they found? Feb 03 19:51:22 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Hidd has some of the info I've captured Feb 03 19:51:42 are hidd plugins a Palm invention ? Feb 03 19:51:45 yes Feb 03 19:51:53 hidd is a palm invention Feb 03 19:51:57 ah Feb 03 19:52:00 `k Feb 03 19:52:06 invention :D Feb 03 19:52:06 it's not what you normally think of as hid Feb 03 19:52:25 high intensity discharge Feb 03 19:52:30 it's just input hardware where each device has its own plugin Feb 03 19:53:08 its like a mini xserver for hw only Feb 03 19:53:19 input-hw Feb 03 19:53:21 jacques: check the .xml file that configures hidd with the list of plugins and their .so Feb 03 19:53:23 libs Feb 03 19:54:14 It's time to start cracking this bad boy down Feb 03 19:54:35 destinal: that's some interesting stuff Feb 03 19:55:02 jacques: probably the first step is to make a wrapper plugin that dynamically loads the .so and itself exposes the same interfaces so we can trace it (unless ltrace works for this) Feb 03 19:55:15 hmmm Feb 03 19:55:37 brb, lunch Feb 03 19:56:08 then dump the passed params and start deciphering them Feb 03 19:57:18 is WIDK the new name for something? Feb 03 19:57:36 webos-internals dev kit Feb 03 19:57:38 jacques: WIDK (what? I don't know) Feb 03 19:57:43 is what I saw on the front page Feb 03 19:58:00 seriously what used to be the webos internals PDK Feb 03 19:58:08 yeah OK that's what I thought Feb 03 19:58:24 I just missed the re-name Feb 03 20:02:42 can anyone tell me what the general process of submiting a patch is? Feb 03 20:06:57 test your patch, create a unified diff, and submit it to the patch submission site. Feb 03 20:10:00 ok thanks Feb 03 20:39:41 where are installed downloaded apps installed? an app is causing overwrite errors... Feb 03 20:40:01 overwrite? Feb 03 20:41:04 /media/cryptofs/apps Feb 03 20:41:08 after about 2 months of developing for webOS, beginning to get com.palm.webos.jpkg.PackageBuilderException: Unable to overwrite existing package destination. path=[C:\Users\DANGO-~1\AppData\Local\Temp\com.buildasearch.search.app_1.0.3_all.ipk]. Feb 03 20:41:08 com.palm.webos.jpkg.PackageBuilderException: Unable to overwrite existing package destination. path=[C:\Users\DANGO-~1\AppData\Local\Temp\com.buildasearch.search.app_1.0.3_all.ipk]. Feb 03 20:41:31 just began happening earlier today Feb 03 20:41:49 doing what? Feb 03 20:42:00 that's not from the Pre Feb 03 20:42:06 emulator Feb 03 20:42:23 installing an IPK for viewing Feb 03 20:42:29 and testing Feb 03 20:42:29 how are you installing it Feb 03 20:43:35 eclipse Feb 03 20:43:38 that error looks like it's your Windows path Feb 03 20:43:43 nothing to do with the device Feb 03 20:44:01 ls -l displays 755 so not sure why it is producing problems Feb 03 20:44:26 LoneStar99 -- where is your palm-install and your eclipse installed to? Feb 03 20:44:40 oh yeah, maybe the %tmp% folder Feb 03 20:44:45 nodnod Feb 03 20:44:47 let me check that out Feb 03 20:45:02 everything seems fine in linux... Feb 03 20:45:18 its refering to your c: drive Feb 03 20:45:39 [C:\Users\DANGO-~1\AppData\Local\Temp\ Feb 03 20:46:03 Rick_work: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/228692-patch-pandora-ad-fix.html came up with a patch to kill the empty ad boxes. I just decided to add a imageUrl="" test to their existing tests of imageUrl=null. won't break pandora and if they ever get the ads working it won't interfere! :D Feb 03 20:46:39 yeah, i probably need to restart this computer, really sucks cuss it was restarted lastnight Feb 03 20:47:02 welcome to windows 7! Feb 03 20:47:19 LoneStar99 windows 7 is way better than vista was Feb 03 20:47:22 there is a registery hack to make it never restart Feb 03 20:47:27 * VincentLaw hasn't rebooted since the last windows update Feb 03 20:47:28 it is so useful Feb 03 20:47:33 BUT the whole concept of unprivlidged users is complex. Feb 03 20:47:34 yeah, same Feb 03 20:47:45 you don't need a registry hack to keep it from rebooting? Feb 03 20:48:20 VincentLaw: are you asking? Feb 03 20:48:47 I'm asking why you needed a registry hack Feb 03 20:49:08 Rick_work: honestly the last builds of vista where pretty stable, windows 7 seems abit better though Feb 03 20:49:14 if you tell windows to autoinstall updates, if you dont restart, it will autorestart for you. Feb 03 20:49:29 you can disable the autorestart with autoinstalls via a registery hack Feb 03 20:49:43 sure, if you turn on autoinstalls, but why would you do that if you don't want it to autorestart Feb 03 20:49:46 LoneStar99: win7 is better in pretty much every way. Feb 03 20:49:52 no point in automatically installing if you're not going to reboot :/ Feb 03 20:50:06 yeah, it is an error overwritting the tmp file Feb 03 20:50:25 VincentLaw: so, i dont have to bother remembering to install. i just dont want it to autoreboot because i could be dling stuff or have some important stuff open Feb 03 20:51:07 * oil never did see a screenshot... Feb 03 20:51:10 that's what the "autodownload and prompt for install" option is for :p Feb 03 20:51:24 it'll remind you there's updates, download them, and ask for you to install when you're ready Feb 03 20:51:43 just sayin' Feb 03 20:52:29 lol Feb 03 20:57:55 thanks for the help need to restart win7 after about 10 hours of use... Feb 03 20:59:14 LoneStar99 obviously doesn't remember the good old days Feb 03 20:59:28 when Win95 would reboot for you just for looking at it the wrong way Feb 03 21:00:19 VincentLaw: and when the mouse moved Feb 03 21:00:32 VincentLaw: "calcd new coords please reboot!" Feb 03 21:00:33 ;) Feb 03 21:15:33 morning Feb 03 21:17:47 rwhitby: morning :) Feb 03 21:17:52 mornin Feb 03 21:18:17 zsoc: 'ello :) Feb 03 21:18:29 dtzWill: yallo Feb 03 21:29:52 morning rwhitby Feb 03 21:29:58 afternoon :p Feb 03 21:30:09 howdy zsoc Feb 03 21:30:27 jacques: wazap Feb 03 21:30:27 Ok, how come my emu doesn't show my mouse anymore :( Feb 03 21:30:40 the cat ate it Feb 03 21:30:42 host key? Feb 03 21:32:11 Keyboard only needs to have focus, but I can't see where my mouse is... Feb 03 21:32:20 I so badly want to touch my monitor :) Feb 03 21:35:51 BoomerET: restart the emu - it happens sometimes for some reason Feb 03 21:36:30 I wonder if thinkgeek's multitouch usb device Feb 03 21:36:37 could be tied to the emu Feb 03 21:36:46 emulator doesn't support multitouch does it ? Feb 03 21:37:10 jacques: if a hardware device connected to it was passing the info? Feb 03 21:37:13 there exist multitouch laptops - would be fun to use emu with one Feb 03 21:37:41 Lumiere: I have no idea if it does - my question was not in response to yours Feb 03 21:37:47 ah Feb 03 21:38:05 jacques: my response was sort-of in response to yours :) Feb 03 21:38:49 if something was passing that multi-touch information through to linux Feb 03 21:39:02 would a driver on the emu be able to handle it Feb 03 21:39:02 I have a convertible tablet laptop (not multitouch) - would be neat to use it to demo webos at SCALE Feb 03 21:39:23 everyone seen http://www.cyrket.com/m/palm/ ? Feb 03 21:39:36 we could almost certainly do it if we reversed the hidd plugins like destinal was talking about Feb 03 21:39:43 when is scale? Feb 03 21:39:53 feb 20-21 Feb 03 21:40:19 sorry: February 19-21, 2010 Feb 03 21:40:35 ~scale8x Feb 03 21:40:50 infobot: scale8x is http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/ Feb 03 21:40:51 okay, jacques Feb 03 21:41:02 shall we begin the hidd race? Feb 03 21:41:20 well, I'm at work so I cna't be racing right now :-) Feb 03 21:41:27 same here :p Feb 03 21:41:28 what is the hidd race ? Feb 03 21:42:02 bpadalino|work: I assume to race to reverse engineer hidd / hidd plugins so that we can write our own plugins Feb 03 21:42:03 figure out hidd enough to get a custom plugin Feb 03 21:42:14 ah i see Feb 03 21:42:15 lol so much more concise Feb 03 21:42:16 interesting Feb 03 21:42:40 :p, and the race part is in time for a working SCALE demo Feb 03 21:42:56 I've been looking for an excuse to get the multitouch option on a new lenovo laptop Feb 03 21:43:17 any ideas people have for demoing at scale are more than welcome Feb 03 21:45:17 jacques: unless you're doing it in person... a document camera and projector? Feb 03 21:51:39 Lumiere: I will be demoing in person at the webos-internals booth Feb 03 21:52:00 I just don't want to use my personal phone to demo - ppl always want to hold / touch Feb 03 21:52:11 and sometimes they drop things ;-D Feb 03 21:52:11 I totally agree Feb 03 21:52:18 or do stupid things :) Feb 03 21:52:25 it was if you were presenting Feb 03 21:52:41 in a room where people wouldn't be able to see it easily Feb 03 21:52:46 oh, I submitted a proposal to present but it wasn't accepted :-( Feb 03 21:52:50 :( Feb 03 21:53:07 there's a chance we might have a BoF tho Feb 03 21:53:22 Hey Feb 03 21:53:27 and I submitted a proposal for a lightning talk and haven't hearb back yet Feb 03 21:54:31 I guess I need to actually get the emulator installed on my laptop and see how it looks Feb 03 21:54:43 * jacques has never installed / used the emulator Feb 03 21:55:15 http://www.elmousa.com/ stuff like this is awesome for showing your hands on the device Feb 03 21:55:18 to a ton of people Feb 03 21:57:58 we should attempt to schedule a BoF; there are slots available: http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/special-events/birds-feather Feb 03 21:58:22 we had one a couple of years ago and rwhitby participated over skype IIRC Feb 03 21:58:35 hmm, that would kinda rock Feb 03 21:59:40 why don't we have a skype-like channel? Feb 03 21:59:41 hmm, no AV equipment available for BoFs this year :-\ Feb 03 22:00:10 we could setup our own tho ... esp since I am on the AV team at scale Feb 03 22:01:21 jacques: all you need is a laptop and network Feb 03 22:01:24 to get someone by skype Feb 03 22:01:36 who was it in here that had the issue with battery drain and volume button? Feb 03 22:01:40 yesterday.. Feb 03 22:02:04 dBsooner: I dunno what has changed on my phone, but I am barely managing 12 hours now on my phone Feb 03 22:02:20 Yeah, today I lost 50% in 3 hours Feb 03 22:02:24 and I didn't even touch it. Feb 03 22:02:46 and before you go there.. its completely stock. Feb 03 22:02:51 no patches, no apps, nada. Feb 03 22:02:55 stupid stocks Feb 03 22:02:59 * dBsooner is rollin old school. Feb 03 22:03:20 well there's your problem, WebOS 1.0.0 sucked! :p Feb 03 22:03:31 dBsooner: gps off, wifi on, radio on? sprint pre? Feb 03 22:03:32 my Pre crashed hard last night while I was asleep - had to pull the battery this morning to get it to boot Feb 03 22:03:56 wifi = off, gps = off Feb 03 22:04:05 Radio = on, cover = 5 bars Feb 03 22:04:09 sprint pre Feb 03 22:04:12 before that it had about a 24-day uptime Feb 03 22:04:26 mine never makes it 24 days without a battery failure Feb 03 22:04:31 Well mine started this morning by thinking the volume down button was stuck Feb 03 22:04:47 i was tlaking on it then all of a sudden the volume turns down Feb 03 22:04:50 and the [.\'] lightning bolt thing Feb 03 22:04:50 and no way to turn it up Feb 03 22:04:54 mine thinks it's 5:08pm now .. Feb 03 22:04:56 stuck button? Feb 03 22:04:58 when it isn't Feb 03 22:05:03 no, it wasn't stuck. Feb 03 22:05:15 I had to pull the battery to get it to stop. Feb 03 22:05:16 dBsooner: shorted? Feb 03 22:05:42 nope Feb 03 22:05:50 after rebooting, button functions normal Feb 03 22:05:51 no issues Feb 03 22:06:01 but then i had the hella battery drain Feb 03 22:08:23 hmm, I might have to buy this: http://www.precentral.net/review-newsroom Feb 03 22:08:53 no google reader integration, no buy Feb 03 22:09:23 * jacques actually prefers apps _not_ integrated with google stuff Feb 03 22:09:38 I wouldn't use an RSS reader if it wasn't for google reader, tbqh Feb 03 22:09:52 I like apps that allow, but do not require integrations Feb 03 22:09:55 it's not so much that it's google, it's that it's online and synced, so it's the same wherever I go Feb 03 22:10:16 I wish that people could use synergy Feb 03 22:10:23 to log into the google account though Feb 03 22:11:15 so instead of typing a password it requests information from synergy (like connect to API z and do x) Feb 03 22:16:04 Lumiere: synergy? Feb 03 22:19:43 stil no word on webos 1.4? Feb 03 22:19:52 im getting addicted to refreshing updates Feb 03 22:20:42 iSmite: "frebruary" aka, the 29th Feb 03 22:20:58 nooo Feb 03 22:21:08 s/29/31/ Feb 03 22:21:08 gkatsev meant: iSmite: "frebruary" aka, the 31th Feb 03 22:21:15 that failed... Feb 03 22:21:17 lolll Feb 03 22:21:21 s/29th/31st/ Feb 03 22:21:33 i think that qualifies for a fail too Feb 03 22:21:41 no, i know that didnt work Feb 03 22:21:57 i preferred 31th it was funnier. Feb 03 22:22:09 lol Feb 03 22:22:44 crappy iphone firmware update today that i'm not bothering with, i thought ooh wonder if palm will have something Feb 03 22:22:58 webos Feb 03 22:23:00 er fail Feb 03 22:23:01 lol Feb 03 22:23:49 ? Feb 03 22:23:57 forgot the /j # Feb 03 22:24:08 Is there an easy way to nuke the USB partition on a freshly doctored phone that cannot be activated? Feb 03 22:24:08 lolll Feb 03 22:24:23 s/an easy/any/ Feb 03 22:24:24 tlp meant: Is there any way to nuke the USB partition on a freshly doctored phone that cannot be activated? Feb 03 22:24:27 tlp: microwave? Feb 03 22:24:29 haha Feb 03 22:24:32 I have to return this device Feb 03 22:24:33 I don't understand the question Feb 03 22:24:36 but I don't want my crap on it Feb 03 22:24:44 I don't want /media/internal to contain anything Feb 03 22:24:48 no no no it's a well known fact that microwaving fixes iphones only Feb 03 22:24:56 its te advice we give on our irc. Feb 03 22:25:12 I've got novaterm connected, but I'm not sure I can do much with this Feb 03 22:25:19 hello egaudet_work Feb 03 22:25:20 USB mode does not give me a drive Feb 03 22:25:35 if you can novaterm in you can erase whatever you want off /media/internal Feb 03 22:25:42 how? Feb 03 22:25:42 hi iSmite Feb 03 22:25:50 I need a real terminal Feb 03 22:25:58 novaterm is a real terminal... Feb 03 22:26:02 * Mousey wonders what a fake terminal is Feb 03 22:26:03 I just have non-UNIX commands Feb 03 22:26:15 i.e. I can reset the phone, etc. Feb 03 22:26:19 huh? Feb 03 22:26:21 uh Feb 03 22:26:22 huh? Feb 03 22:26:25 i just use ssh for deleting whatever im allergic to terminal Feb 03 22:26:38 * Mousey reels from all the crazy talk Feb 03 22:26:41 when I type novaterm, I don't get a Linux shell. Feb 03 22:26:42 my head is really going to explode Feb 03 22:26:42 sftp? Feb 03 22:26:48 does that make sense at all? Feb 03 22:26:58 no Feb 03 22:27:01 I get a ] prompt Feb 03 22:27:04 oh Feb 03 22:27:07 bootie Feb 03 22:27:19 (i think) Feb 03 22:27:26 what's bootie? Feb 03 22:27:28 git r done Feb 03 22:27:34 PuffTheMagic: ] is bootie right? Feb 03 22:27:43 bootie prompt* Feb 03 22:27:44 ] ? Feb 03 22:27:59 I've got a mostly dead Pre powered on in USB mode with novaterm, and it gives me a ] prompt Feb 03 22:28:02 tlp, just meta doctor with dev mode and bypass activation Feb 03 22:28:14 USB mode? Feb 03 22:28:15 tlp: yeah Feb 03 22:28:17 thats bootie Feb 03 22:28:21 tlp: mostly dead? Feb 03 22:28:23 whats the issue? Feb 03 22:28:27 touchscreen is shattered Feb 03 22:28:31 so I can't tap anything Feb 03 22:28:37 * sugardave runs to find Billy Crystal. Feb 03 22:28:37 metadoctor Feb 03 22:28:38 awesome Feb 03 22:28:42 * Mousey wonders what bootie is, thinks he should rtfm Feb 03 22:28:44 egaudet_work: You hold the Volume Up button with the phone off, and then plug in USB Feb 03 22:28:53 that's not USB mode Feb 03 22:28:56 that's bootie recovery mode Feb 03 22:28:58 oh. Feb 03 22:29:00 that's what I meant Feb 03 22:29:07 now I'm unconfused Feb 03 22:29:08 lol Feb 03 22:29:11 so metadoctor will work with a Pre in this state? Feb 03 22:29:24 yea you don't need to touch anything, but I'm sure you can boot from bootie Feb 03 22:29:40 when I boot I get the English/Espanol screen Feb 03 22:29:46 not with bypass activation Feb 03 22:29:51 ah Feb 03 22:30:00 I take it MetaDoctor is a Windows tool Feb 03 22:30:06 no Feb 03 22:30:10 ! Feb 03 22:30:11 awesome Feb 03 22:30:21 it's makefiles to unpack, patch and pack the doctor Feb 03 22:30:24 ubuntu Feb 03 22:30:35 is the "supported" OS to build it Feb 03 22:30:41 egaudet when you get a free minute, my alarm on the pre don't go off lol..not for 4 days now, i see other people have the same issue on precentral, dw its not hugely urgent or anything just wondered if you knew a fix, brb Feb 03 22:30:52 That just so happens to be the OS I use :p Feb 03 22:31:22 cool, thanks for the help egaudet Feb 03 22:31:30 going to doctor my TEP phone first Feb 03 22:31:31 I've never used or looked at anything with the alarms, sorry iSmite no idea Feb 03 22:31:49 i just set my alarm for 8am..and it doesnt go off lol Feb 03 22:31:58 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Feb 03 22:32:20 this thing is a refurb, but it's in better shape than my brand new Pre was out the door. No slider issues. Feb 03 22:32:32 huh my slider has killed the back mirror Feb 03 22:32:35 im narked about that Feb 03 22:32:41 takes money off when i resell it Feb 03 22:32:56 had it a week and the mirrors scratched to f Feb 03 22:32:57 Don't feel too bad. It seems that Pres by and large have terrible build quality Feb 03 22:33:07 ] is bootie I was just using it this morning Feb 03 22:33:13 for £250 i expect longer than a week Feb 03 22:33:15 I hope they fixed it with the Plus models Feb 03 22:33:16 rofl Feb 03 22:34:00 2 massive scratches the length of the mirror every time i slide it so now i dont slide it Feb 03 22:34:13 or it will go right down through the mirror to the black stuff underneath Feb 03 22:34:42 crappy plastic mirror anyway Feb 03 22:34:46 like tin foil Feb 03 22:34:49 cheap and nasty Feb 03 22:35:33 that's what he said Feb 03 22:36:56 my god, what do you people do to your phones? Mine is in almost pristine condition still Feb 03 22:37:00 heading home, bbl Feb 03 22:37:19 sugardave: mine is too, and I got the first week of release and use it constantly... it's perfect Feb 03 22:37:34 FreeTim: it's like we're the same people Feb 03 22:37:36 only not Feb 03 22:37:41 I think mine is starting to scratch one side of the mirror Feb 03 22:37:50 You're more kinda sugary, I'm free-er Feb 03 22:38:06 heh Feb 03 22:38:09 whatever that means :) Feb 03 22:38:16 one's more tim-ery the other's more dave-ey Feb 03 22:38:28 that's much better. Thanks Jacques Feb 03 22:38:41 my iphone which i had for 2 ys is pristine, well was when i sold it, the first day i got this pre the slider mechanism wrecked the mirror. i take care of my phones as i resell them, i put a screencover and seidio case on it. if you google palm pre mirror scratches you will see othe rpeople with same issue Feb 03 22:39:07 oh man, maybe it's the protectors...I don't have one of those, either Feb 03 22:39:15 eh Feb 03 22:39:20 sugardave: You lucked out. Feb 03 22:39:24 iSmite: I think some of the slider mechanisms are really badly made Feb 03 22:39:31 I babied my Pre and it still developed slider issues, button issues, door issues Feb 03 22:39:39 lame :( Feb 03 22:39:44 mine's been kinda iffy since the day I got it Feb 03 22:39:49 yeah, bad build Feb 03 22:39:54 the refurb I have seems to be much better Feb 03 22:39:56 so we'll see Feb 03 22:40:00 for that kind of money that is completely unacceptable tbh Feb 03 22:40:00 I won't know for another 6 months Feb 03 22:40:12 mine has been solid enough for the daily use it has gotten in the last 2 months Feb 03 22:40:22 im a newer pre convert Feb 03 22:40:23 :D Feb 03 22:40:23 and mine isnt on official so i can't return it i got it from the swap store brand new boxed Feb 03 22:40:35 do you have TEP? Feb 03 22:40:41 assuming you are on Sprint Feb 03 22:40:46 im not going on a stupid contract for any phone never have never will Feb 03 22:40:52 no im in uk Feb 03 22:40:52 ] Feb 03 22:40:54 ah Feb 03 22:41:07 prepay you can only get it contract here Feb 03 22:41:38 rip off Feb 03 22:41:38 i've never had tep on a phone... never had need for it. I washed my Samsung a900 in the laundry once and sprint sent me a refurb anyway Feb 03 22:41:46 with my sim i get unlimited data, 3g etc Feb 03 22:41:55 i only top up £10 a month Feb 03 22:41:57 lolll Feb 03 22:42:03 they want £35 a month for contract Feb 03 22:42:06 i think not Feb 03 22:42:55 my first iphone was brand new unactivated i unlocked it the day i got it lol Feb 03 22:43:03 as soon as the unlock came out Feb 03 22:44:06 oh yeah question, do you know if 1.4 will bring yahoo officially to europe Feb 03 22:44:16 cos atm its america Feb 03 22:44:33 the patch has broken lots of stuff that i have to use to enable it Feb 03 22:44:47 tlp: use any webos doctor, meta or not, then novaterm into the device around 50%, and dd from /dev/zero to the /media/internal partition in flash Feb 03 22:44:56 no need for screen access Feb 03 22:46:39 I guess bootie cannot erase flash ? Feb 03 22:46:47 some bootloaders can Feb 03 22:48:22 q about cron... Feb 03 22:48:44 n00b question. with an iphone if you restore its pretty much back to factory, icons/their equivalent of patches go. whats the most complete 'restore to factory' that you can do on a pre? Feb 03 22:48:44 there are still issues that cron doesn't run jobs when phone is asleep... if charging asleep, they run. Feb 03 22:49:06 has been issue since 1.3.5 apparently Feb 03 22:49:34 rwhitby: I'll try that instead, thanks. Will WebOS Doctor restore the /media/internal partition if it's been nuked with dd? Feb 03 22:49:45 jacques: I was hoping it could. Feb 03 22:50:17 any ideas on keeping cron alive during sleep? Feb 03 22:51:35 Does anyone know if the accelerometer turning off when the screen dims is expected behavior? Feb 03 22:51:49 or, how hidd works? Feb 03 22:52:47 I wonder if bootie has an "advanced" mode Feb 03 22:53:07 or any hidden commands Feb 03 22:53:29 tlp: yes, another doctor will rebuild the paritition Feb 03 22:53:50 As in, does anyone know how the screen's behavior is tied to the accelerometer's behavior Feb 03 22:53:53 iSmite: full erase followed by webos doctor Feb 03 22:54:02 schulman: I think everything we know about hidd is http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Hidd Feb 03 22:54:28 jacques: there is an engineering version of bootie, and a released version (which has a number of commands disabled) Feb 03 22:54:35 jacques: yeah I should observe it in debug mode Feb 03 22:54:38 rwhitby: awww Feb 03 22:55:03 schulman: I've noticed lunasysmgr does things when the screen brightness changes Feb 03 22:55:17 seemingly unrelated things ... Feb 03 22:55:55 rwhitby: where can I get the engineering version? Feb 03 22:56:05 yeah the touch panel certainly goes to sleep when the screen dims Feb 03 22:57:45 lunasysmgr can be annoyingly controlling - for example it clocks the CPU to 600MHz when it launches a SDL card. what if I don't want it to do that? Feb 03 22:58:10 hi Feb 03 22:58:12 hu Feb 03 22:58:14 you know what Feb 03 22:58:21 I am just going to get rid of lunasysmgr Feb 03 22:58:21 haha Feb 03 22:58:33 good idea Feb 03 22:58:36 * jacques goes to delete it Feb 03 22:58:43 nah Feb 03 22:58:44 thanks Feb 03 22:58:47 for the experiment I am diong Feb 03 22:58:48 doing Feb 03 22:58:54 I do not need the gui anyway Feb 03 22:58:58 you can stop it Feb 03 22:59:04 yeah I am going to try it Feb 03 22:59:09 ive had this same song on repeat for 3 hour now hmm. Feb 03 22:59:33 oh blah, then I can not send any of the messages to do the wakeup stuff unless I talk directly to powerd Feb 03 23:00:12 I forgot how to stop it - some upstart cmd ... Feb 03 23:00:16 jacques: you cannot get the engineering version Feb 03 23:00:27 rwhitby: I figured as much Feb 03 23:00:28 ok my alarm just went off first time in 4 days. except its 11pm not 8 am. Feb 03 23:00:33 jacques: we only know about it from verbal references to it Feb 03 23:01:17 heh, whats this new hidd thing everyone is talking about Feb 03 23:01:17 * rwhitby bbl Feb 03 23:01:48 FuMan: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Hidd Feb 03 23:01:59 yeah, I read that Feb 03 23:02:00 Human Interface Device daemon? Feb 03 23:02:05 what does it do Feb 03 23:02:47 you read the page and still don't know what it does? Feb 03 23:04:18 I guess you could think of it as a service to provide input events to the system Feb 03 23:04:39 so its a "Human Interface Device Daemon" Feb 03 23:04:41 :D Feb 03 23:04:41 events from touchscreen, keyboard, accel, proximity sensor Feb 03 23:06:15 does touchstone not work if connected to usb? Feb 03 23:06:25 no Feb 03 23:06:34 not enough power Feb 03 23:06:43 or yes Feb 03 23:06:47 CorpX: correct Feb 03 23:06:58 whatever means no Feb 03 23:07:12 ill be damned Feb 03 23:07:13 :( Feb 03 23:07:14 apparently there used to be a bluez thing called hidd but it's not the same thing (?) Feb 03 23:07:31 jacques: right, totally different Feb 03 23:08:38 I always thought the bluetooth hidd was a stupid name Feb 03 23:08:44 god damn it i have a plastic covering case and the touchstone is not working well with it Feb 03 23:09:16 it should be like blue_hidd Feb 03 23:09:38 jacques: scale is 16 days from now? so we have a definitely goal / timeline Feb 03 23:10:35 destinal: yep Feb 03 23:12:10 jacques: so what's your use case? you have a multitouch tablet and you want to do multitouch in the emulator or remotely control a pre sitting on a touchstone or something? Feb 03 23:13:09 jacques: what kinds of things will you be demoing? Feb 03 23:13:36 or just webos generally? Feb 03 23:15:29 what is scale? Feb 03 23:16:57 south california linux expo Feb 03 23:17:02 oh I see Feb 03 23:17:30 I am an east cost guy, probably should have heard of that at least though Feb 03 23:17:58 lol Feb 03 23:17:59 expo's Feb 03 23:18:00 ha Feb 03 23:18:10 linux expo Feb 03 23:18:11 ha Feb 03 23:18:32 what could possibly happen at a linux expo Feb 03 23:19:07 heh, nothing like an open mind ... Feb 03 23:19:28 rwhitby: Does /media/internal get mounted at some point during the doctor process? I don't see an /etc/fstab Feb 03 23:19:45 rwhitby: im trying to think Feb 03 23:19:45 tlp: it does not - you will need to manually mount it from the flash partition Feb 03 23:19:53 but nothing is coming to me Feb 03 23:19:55 ok. Do you happen to know the device name? Feb 03 23:20:10 I forget what they even begin with Feb 03 23:20:17 benchmark filesysterms and opengl performance :D Feb 03 23:20:22 tlp: nope, and lvm will need to be running first too - we have details of that on the last resort recovery page I think - destinal put it there Feb 03 23:20:57 destinal: tlp is logged into a pre during a doctor, and wants to wipe /media/internal with no screen access Feb 03 23:20:59 figured it out Feb 03 23:21:07 /dev/mapper/store-media Feb 03 23:21:24 so just dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mapper/store-media eh? Feb 03 23:21:25 dd /dev/zero over that should do it Feb 03 23:21:28 ok Feb 03 23:21:37 rwhitby: yeah, I .. oh, hey, you got it :) Feb 03 23:21:46 btw, are there any plans to distribute Preware via Palm's alternative distribution method? Feb 03 23:21:59 tlp: alternate distribution has the same content rules as catalog Feb 03 23:22:03 ah Feb 03 23:22:46 so, has anyone worked on a privacy patch? Feb 03 23:23:50 rwhitby: I want my way to pw protect pictures first. Feb 03 23:24:06 dBsooner: just use cryptofs Feb 03 23:24:24 and have a service to mount and unmount, with webOS UI to give the password. Feb 03 23:24:57 is cryptofs fuse? Feb 03 23:25:01 yep Feb 03 23:25:23 I wonder what happens if the doctor finishes before dd Feb 03 23:25:36 8GB is a lot to overwrite Feb 03 23:25:38 destinal: sorry was booking my flight :-) Feb 03 23:25:47 tlp: doctor (trenchcoat actually) will try and unmount and fail, and stop there. Feb 03 23:26:01 you'll still be logged in Feb 03 23:26:05 ah, excellent Feb 03 23:26:22 I have no idea who's going to be poking around this device at the insurance company, so I want to make sure it's all clean first Feb 03 23:26:30 destinal: my immediate use case is to demo webos / apps running in an emulator on a tablet PC at the booth Feb 03 23:26:58 destinal: emphasis on demoing webos-internals apps (like preware) Feb 03 23:28:04 and the ease with which webos can be live patched Feb 03 23:28:16 so /var/context/contextfile is interesting Feb 03 23:29:03 tlp: oh, you didn't novacom boot the recovery image, you novacom'd into a doctor! interesting... Feb 03 23:29:14 which is of course the recovery image but already being driven Feb 03 23:29:20 yep, that was rwhitby's suggestion Feb 03 23:29:25 destinal: yeah, much easier if you don't care what happens to the pre Feb 03 23:29:30 I was cvery confused by bootie initially Feb 03 23:29:47 tlp: well you can just novacom boot as in the recovery article I wrote Feb 03 23:29:51 and confused egaudet in the process Feb 03 23:29:57 rwhitby: argh the context log has everything I've run on my pre and when and for how long Feb 03 23:29:58 ah, cool. I'll dig that article up Feb 03 23:30:08 jacques: yep Feb 03 23:30:12 but yeah doctor makes it really easy if you don't mind a race :) Feb 03 23:30:21 jacques: and I think it is uploaded to Palm daily Feb 03 23:30:34 destinal, can you boot from bootie bypassing activation? Feb 03 23:30:52 egaudet: sure, you could touch first use from there Feb 03 23:30:55 then reboot it Feb 03 23:31:07 you can touch first use from bootie? Feb 03 23:31:17 I have no idea how to use bootie if that's possible. Feb 03 23:31:27 rwhitby: that wouldn't surprise me from some activity I've observed Feb 03 23:31:30 well you'd boot the recovery image and novaterm in Feb 03 23:31:39 the recovery image is stored on device? Feb 03 23:31:42 egaudet: you can touch first use from novacom'd into a doctor session Feb 03 23:31:49 egaudet: that's documented on the recovery page Feb 03 23:31:50 rwhitby: I guess better palm than Sprint :-D Feb 03 23:32:01 is that all metadoctor does? Feb 03 23:32:04 touch a file? Feb 03 23:32:13 egaudet: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery Feb 03 23:32:33 tlp: for 1 of the 8 features of meta-doctor, yes. Feb 03 23:32:47 haha, it just booted me out of novaterm rwhitby Feb 03 23:32:50 that file determines whether first-use is run modal or not Feb 03 23:32:57 nova-installer-image-castle.uImage is useful for all kinds of things, it doesn't actually install anything, it's just an environment designed to allow doctor to novacom in and install things Feb 03 23:32:59 dd still in progress Feb 03 23:33:02 my Pre reset Feb 03 23:33:07 tlp: yeah it'll tellbootie restart Feb 03 23:33:13 and your session will go away Feb 03 23:33:15 tlp: oh, I assumed you were cd'd into a mounted dir Feb 03 23:33:34 if the unmount fails, then it stops there Feb 03 23:33:38 ah Feb 03 23:33:43 if a md5sum verification fails, it also stops Feb 03 23:34:16 ah, I see Feb 03 23:34:16 egaudet: we could easily make a bypass first use tool that required you be in recovery mode Feb 03 23:34:20 I'll go ahead and use destinal's trick Feb 03 23:34:46 tlp: for an experienced user like yourself, yeah. Feb 03 23:34:54 egaudet: it would novacom boot the installer image, then activate lvm volumes and mount the correct one and touch the file Feb 03 23:35:03 tlp: you can skip the first part about omap3 boot Feb 03 23:35:10 destinal: except you can distribute the installer image Feb 03 23:35:18 s/can/can't/ Feb 03 23:35:20 rwhitby meant: destinal: except you can't distribute the installer image Feb 03 23:35:34 so it requires a doctor download anyway Feb 03 23:35:47 rwhitby: unless we included an image of our own Feb 03 23:35:51 hmm, rwhitby says you can and infobot says you can't - who to believe? ;-) Feb 03 23:35:56 rwhitby: go open source Feb 03 23:36:14 destinal: as soon as we have a working kernel, yes. Feb 03 23:36:23 rwhitby: we have working kernels AFAIK Feb 03 23:36:24 we don't have a working kernel? Feb 03 23:36:29 I thought we did Feb 03 23:36:41 for some definition of "working" Feb 03 23:36:52 a few different people have been building and booting linux Feb 03 23:37:10 "if it aint on the wiki, it don't exist." Feb 03 23:37:17 lol Feb 03 23:37:22 I thought it was .... Feb 03 23:37:31 rwhitby: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels Feb 03 23:37:48 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels Feb 03 23:38:06 well, we should put that into the autobuilder then Feb 03 23:38:30 make it an executable makefile rather than a wiki page. Feb 03 23:38:33 rwhitby: it would be good to do a full recovery image in autobuilder too Feb 03 23:38:43 just because Feb 03 23:38:50 destinal: This thing is still showing the USB screen. Feb 03 23:38:54 or whatever it is Feb 03 23:39:23 I guess it might take longer than 15 seconds to send this image or something? Feb 03 23:39:55 or do I need to 'boot' via novaterm? Feb 03 23:40:45 it only took 4 posts before someone didn't read my patch thread and asked for me to make my patch remove /all/ pandora ads. Feb 03 23:40:48 * VincentLaw cries Feb 03 23:41:43 hmm - time to work on preware automatically reinstalling services after a doctor Feb 03 23:42:07 reinstalling openssh sftp server sucks Feb 03 23:42:17 haha Feb 03 23:42:25 yeah, I had to do all of that recently Feb 03 23:42:33 VincentLaw: funny how people dont read... annoying actually Feb 03 23:42:37 rwhitby: we do need to get a system working for building kernel modules Feb 03 23:42:46 i would like to get tun/tap module in preware Feb 03 23:42:48 for vpn Feb 03 23:42:57 yeah that would be nice Feb 03 23:43:07 PuffTheMagic: sure, no reason why it couldn't be done on the current build.git Feb 03 23:43:19 it's just the same as compiling termplugin Feb 03 23:43:24 is tun/tap ported? Feb 03 23:43:33 schulman: ported? Feb 03 23:43:35 if it needed any porting? Feb 03 23:43:42 schulman: its a kernel module Feb 03 23:43:45 no porting Feb 03 23:43:47 just build it Feb 03 23:43:48 right Feb 03 23:43:49 BTW, openvpn works fine as-is on a stock Pre kernel Feb 03 23:43:51 I mean, did someone compile it Feb 03 23:43:52 and it works Feb 03 23:44:03 rwhitby: i want to use vpnc Feb 03 23:44:09 ok Feb 03 23:44:27 oh I see, if we are talking about vpn stuff I would guess someone was able to compile tun/tap Feb 03 23:45:00 rwhitby: yeah i know it could be done, we just need to get a linux-headers package in there for kmods to link against and i possible kernel dir with the right config in place with 'make modules_prepare' run Feb 03 23:45:14 schulman: i have built the kernel before Feb 03 23:45:16 and kernel modules Feb 03 23:45:19 tun/tap should build fine Feb 03 23:45:28 destinal: oops, nevermind. I missed the < Feb 03 23:46:03 yeah I could use vpnc Feb 03 23:46:42 I'd gladly test any vpnc stuff if necessary~ Feb 03 23:46:46 :) Feb 03 23:57:01 hi! does anyone know how do i turn off the automatic turning on & off of the airplane mode? for some reason i installed a patch that did this but i cant remember how to get to the setting other than the one on the main menu (which doesnt have settings for the mode, just turns it on|off). i tried to find the patch but couldnt. i even wiped off all patches (for a different reason) but that is... Feb 03 23:57:03 ...still coming up automatically. any ideas? thx!! ;) Feb 03 23:59:36 tlp: sorry I got pulled away Feb 03 23:59:50 tlp: did you get everything going then? Feb 04 00:00:18 PuffTheMagic: I know someone who's used vpnc with the stock kernel in 1.2.x Feb 04 00:00:27 (of webos) Feb 04 00:00:43 i grepped dmesg for TUN and didnt get anything Feb 04 00:00:48 maybe its past the buffer idk Feb 04 00:03:11 [ 0.760000] tun: Universal TUN/TAP device driver, 1.6 Feb 04 00:03:42 * rwhitby bbl Feb 04 00:08:16 keenah: automatic setting of airplane mode? how did that work? Feb 04 00:08:44 altitude? (lol) Feb 04 00:09:32 sonic signature of pre-flight safety briefing? Feb 04 00:10:16 sound of crying babies? Feb 04 00:11:34 lol Feb 04 00:12:03 bialw Feb 04 00:12:22 destinal: it was a patch but i cant remember how i got it. it may have been through the dt app vu t it may have been with preware. thats part of the problem, i cant remember, it was a while back but i wiped all patches to upgrade to AUPT so it should have been eliminated with everything else only it didnt, thats so weird... Feb 04 00:12:39 Kyusaku: palm has vpnc package and patches in opensource.palm.com, it's clear they've been planning on making it part of corporate VPN support Feb 04 00:12:51 not sure why they haven't done more with it Feb 04 00:13:29 destinal: yeah I remember the job listing for some kind of Cisco VPN tech or something Feb 04 00:13:44 I know it's coming Feb 04 00:13:52 Kyusaku: for now it would work from commandl ine Feb 04 00:13:54 command line Feb 04 00:13:56 excuse my ignorance but what would a VPN be useful for on the pre? Feb 04 00:14:21 VincentLaw: access to a home or corporate network securely from random places in the world? Feb 04 00:14:36 like VPN clients on anything? Feb 04 00:14:49 my uni has open wireless with Cisco VPN access Feb 04 00:15:38 Kyusaku: so if you can figure out command line vpnc, go for it. at some point a GUI app would be nice but I doubt it's high on anyone's list at the moment Feb 04 00:15:52 We need a meebo app Feb 04 00:16:01 destinal: yeah I've been thinking about doing some kind of GUI Feb 04 00:16:21 it would be cool to have one vpn manager app for lots of different clients Feb 04 00:16:28 just wondering the access via WebOS Feb 04 00:16:48 question.... does the PDK allow access to the microphone? Feb 04 00:16:48 Kyusaku: you'd need a management service and then a mojo gui to call the service Feb 04 00:16:53 would I need some kind of service to access and edit vpnc's configs Feb 04 00:16:56 I see Feb 04 00:17:01 right Feb 04 00:18:17 you think building with the PDK could circumvent the use of a service? Feb 04 00:18:55 Kyusaku: depends on what you mean :) Feb 04 00:19:05 does anyone know if there is an app to record audio or calls? Feb 04 00:19:23 Kyusaku: you could write an SDL based vpn management application or a mojo+service or mojo+plugin one Feb 04 00:19:45 keenah: not yet Feb 04 00:19:50 think there would be if the PDK allowed that Feb 04 00:20:00 or APIs existed for it Feb 04 00:20:07 destinal: yeah I'm thinking which direction I'd want to take it Feb 04 00:20:19 ... plus since chuq just left in #webos after i asked it... looks like webos does not thave that ability yet Feb 04 00:20:30 pretty bummer... the last piece of the puzzle, if you ask me Feb 04 00:20:31 maybe just SDL based since all the info isn't out on on mojo+plugin stuff Feb 04 00:22:54 Kyusaku: I would go mojo + service Feb 04 00:24:14 I figure no matter what you do it probably wouldn't get approved for app catalog, so I'd make it the best way you could. also I wonder if PDK is really just Native SDK Feb 04 00:24:29 graphical games and stuff Feb 04 00:24:48 oh I don't care about app cat Feb 04 00:25:00 I just want a working VPN config gui Feb 04 00:25:24 yeah, mojo + service would be easy, there are lots of examples, and it would provide a webos look and feel Feb 04 00:25:40 just trying to think which would be the easiest Feb 04 00:25:48 ok Feb 04 00:25:59 http://gitorious.org/pre-openvpn <--- gui but it doesn't do anything yet Feb 04 00:26:02 I guess I should look into building the service Feb 04 00:27:27 but openvpn isn't vpnc =/ Feb 04 00:28:31 grndslm: thx! its a shame a phone like this that u cant record any audio when any other pretty basic phone does? thats kind of odd, no? i also have the palm centro & that old model does have it. i wish it was compatible & there was a way to copy it over. this one doesnt record phone conversations tho but yes it does record audio which is pretty good! Feb 04 00:28:47 it's technically possible Feb 04 00:28:59 it's just the APIs aren't allowed by Palm Feb 04 00:29:15 actually Feb 04 00:29:17 hmmm Feb 04 00:29:24 keenah: agreed. it's the one reason i'm not giving up the centro as my main phone Feb 04 00:29:40 i need voip, voice recording, and call recording Feb 04 00:29:48 all right going offline, on the move Feb 04 00:29:50 i have 2 outta those 3 with the centro Feb 04 00:30:24 com.palm.webos.util.AppManagerUtil$AppManagerException: FAILED_IPKG_INSTALL anyone know why I am getting that error trying to install an IPK via eclipse Feb 04 00:31:09 does anyone know how do i turn off the automatic on|off of the airplane mode? for some reason i installed a patch that did this only the time zone appears to be a different one cuz it doesnt work at the time i set it for so it is become more of a problem but i cant remember how to get to the setting other than the one on the main menu (which doesnt have settings for the mode, just turns it... Feb 04 00:31:11 ...on|off). i tried to find the patch but couldnt. i even wiped off all patches (when upgraded to AUPT) but that is still coming up automatically. any ideas? thx!! ;) Feb 04 00:35:17 destinal: yep, sure did. thanks! Feb 04 00:35:21 grndslm: i still think the centro is more functional on many aspects. although the limitted memory is a problem, it has other functionality that this one doesnt like the desktop app which i find pretty important. i just cant believe there isnt one (without having to spend more $ buying a separate dt app to have) it should come with the phone. i font like to have google i need to have a dt... Feb 04 00:35:22 ...app not online. unless there is anything im missing and there is one (free) liek the centro has. Feb 04 00:35:36 keenah: agreed... memory has ALWAYS been a problem for palm until the pre plus Feb 04 00:35:42 they're slow for some reason :( Feb 04 00:36:29 what's a dt app? Feb 04 00:37:51 rwhitby: I guess the main thing we'd be lacking for a custom open source recovery image would be a novacomd work-alike.. we should really work on that Feb 04 00:38:58 $150 for a "custom open source recovery image" Feb 04 00:39:03 just throwin' it out there :) Feb 04 00:39:12 grndslm: lol Feb 04 00:39:42 grndslm: are you saying charge for, or offering a bounty? Feb 04 00:39:54 offering as bounty Feb 04 00:40:15 that would be simply amazing to have completely open source OS on the pre Feb 04 00:41:35 grndslm: do you mean for an actual fully open source OS that's also a phone? that's a lot harder than just making it a portable open source linux box Feb 04 00:41:56 grndslm: the desktop application that came in a cd with the palm. i cant remember its name. do u know? Feb 04 00:42:08 palm desktop? Feb 04 00:42:16 you can download it from palm.com i believe Feb 04 00:42:58 i really should look into getting another centro if palm's really gonna be stingy with the APIs and not gonna have a desktop sync app Feb 04 00:43:02 they're only like $50 on ebay Feb 04 00:43:16 grndslm: because palm's open source kernel plus maybe libertas wifi driver and a debian userland would be fully open source and workable, but I'm assuming you probably want it to be a phone too :P Feb 04 00:43:24 right Feb 04 00:43:32 i actually am not using it as a phone now Feb 04 00:43:43 but an open source OS with voip functionality i'd pay $150 for Feb 04 00:43:51 not necessarily have to use cdma radio Feb 04 00:44:27 but if you could get the mic to work with the open source OS, you could prolly get the mic working in the PDK... Feb 04 00:44:44 hmm.. a fairly standard userland like freesmartphone.org or openmoko did, or an android port? Feb 04 00:45:58 i'm not sure how i feel about an android port Feb 04 00:46:04 grndslm: lots of stuff like power management is important for a mobile device too above besides just talking to the CDMA radio, so I'm not suggesting it's easy, but it should be possible Feb 04 00:46:07 it would make the most sense, but at the same time... it doesn't :/ Feb 04 00:47:13 yep, contextupload knows about every time I launch preware or any other app. Feb 04 00:48:07 there's no mic api because the audio encoder is garbage. Feb 04 00:48:11 rwhitby: there should probably be a wiki article on turning off the various upload stuff Feb 04 00:48:28 destinal: I'm creating a privacy patch for it Feb 04 00:48:33 once there is a decent one set up across the bridge properly, it should be fine Feb 04 00:48:45 rwhitby: very cool Feb 04 00:48:48 2010-01-06T03:54:50Z upload /var/context/pending/1262749941-contextfile.gz.contextlog OK uploaded_files/2010-02-03/04/RD Feb 04 00:49:04 rwhitby: honestly I'm willing to bet palm would prefer not to hear so much noise from modified devices Feb 04 00:49:37 destinal: the small percentage of homebrew devices wouldn't feature on any trends anywa Feb 04 00:49:39 y Feb 04 00:49:55 Less than 2% of webOS devices run Preware Feb 04 00:49:58 sure but I know segfaults and crashes get investigated Feb 04 00:50:11 not sure to what degree Feb 04 00:50:12 what the fsck is going on with freenode right now? Feb 04 00:50:22 jacques: hmm, freenode seems fine to me Feb 04 00:50:32 jacques: dunno, I turn off joins and parts so I never get aggravated by netsplits :-) Feb 04 00:50:36 just took me like 10 minutes to login - kept telling me jacques: nick/channel temporarily unavailable Feb 04 00:50:43 I really felt preware had a better penetration rate Feb 04 00:50:55 zsoc: nope, 25K users Feb 04 00:51:00 kept disconnecting me too Feb 04 00:51:14 rwhitby: osl logs are forged ;) Feb 04 00:51:37 "jacques: Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable" Feb 04 00:51:45 I can't imagine using a stock webOS device, no offense to palm Feb 04 00:53:00 we need to start a preware penetration campain Feb 04 00:55:02 heh, since mytether uses ipkg without any -o switch, Palm knows *exactly* which users have mytether installed. Feb 04 00:55:48 palm also knows who is using the meta-doctor from rdxd logs Feb 04 00:55:50 yeah, Preware is one of the first things I install Feb 04 00:56:14 then OpenSSH and SFTP Feb 04 00:56:26 so what is the absolute worst time for webos 1.4 to be released? Feb 04 00:56:29 which is precisely what I'm going to do now Feb 04 00:56:50 e.g. INFO: com.palm.nova.installer.recoverytool.CardController is loaded from: file:/Volumes/Linux/tools/meta-doctor/build/pre-p100ueu-wr-1.X.X/webosdoctorp100ueu-wr-1.X.X.jar Feb 04 00:56:54 jacques: today Feb 04 00:57:00 zsoc: i can. but the patches and some of the homebrew apps just make the experience more enjoyable/easier Feb 04 00:57:04 (versions removed to protect the innocent) Feb 04 00:57:57 jacques: 1 more vote for today Feb 04 00:58:11 as long as palm doesn't tell sprint what I'm up to, I don't really care :-D Feb 04 00:58:29 it's still creepy Feb 04 00:58:32 zsoc: haha Feb 04 00:58:40 like this chat being logged ;) Feb 04 00:58:59 twice Feb 04 01:01:11 ok, meta-doctor is going to have an option to disable uploadd before flashing Feb 04 01:05:42 grndslm: a palm pre desktop sync app? free? like the centro's? r u sure about that? i know theres only the one by chapura thats about $35 & centro's is not compatible with pre unfortunately. they really know how to take ur $ dont they? but if theres one for free other than the online alternative, google, (or outlook, which is way more $ than chapura's) i'd love to know about it! is there?... Feb 04 01:05:44 ...really? Feb 04 01:06:11 i was referring to palm desktop for palmOS Feb 04 01:06:33 there is some way to use palm desktop with webOS, but i thin it requires chapura or somethin' like that, like you suggested Feb 04 01:07:36 uh, why again woudl 1.4 today be a bad thing? Feb 04 01:08:01 FuMan: reasons i cant say Feb 04 01:08:12 FuMan: think on it long and hard Feb 04 01:08:47 ... you're wife is in labor O_o Feb 04 01:09:09 wut? Feb 04 01:09:43 rwhitby: "disable upload [of what?] before flashing" Feb 04 01:10:40 uploadd Feb 04 01:10:53 uploadd does what?' Feb 04 01:10:56 grndslm: contextupload and rdxd, which both use uploadd Feb 04 01:12:02 contextupload and rdxd are the junk that reports your history Feb 04 01:12:09 and system/app crashes, etc.? Feb 04 01:12:54 yeah, why would 1.4 be bad today? Feb 04 01:13:44 i only want 1.4 if i can have some voip apps and call recording Feb 04 01:14:04 I guess, something important on the brew side is going to be released, that 1.4 would break, or something? Feb 04 01:14:13 i dunno, probably some linux smartkid thing i dont get O_o Feb 04 01:16:28 its not homebrew related Feb 04 01:16:45 rwhitby: why not disable contextupload and rdxd alongside uploadd?? Feb 04 01:16:47 well my reason is not related to that Feb 04 01:17:01 grndslm: I'm doing that Feb 04 01:17:04 kk Feb 04 01:17:07 nice Feb 04 01:17:27 but they both use uploadd anyway. I'll be disabling them just to stop them erroring Feb 04 01:17:51 hrm Feb 04 01:18:09 well, then i've got no idea, I guess ill just keep my eyes open for neat stuff O_o Feb 04 01:20:14 what patch allows you the choice to choose which service to restart? Feb 04 01:21:02 rwhitby: interesting question .. does the emulator have uploadd? Feb 04 01:21:14 and does it upload logs also? Feb 04 01:26:33 heh Feb 04 01:26:45 why is it that Preware always craps out if you minimize the card while updating Feb 04 01:26:56 will stall on whatever package its downloading, etc Feb 04 01:33:35 egaudet: jacques: so it looks like the most absolutely brain dead simple hidd lib to try to use is libhidqemukeypad.so from the emulator image. I'm not sure it actually does anything useful but it seems to implement the API properly Feb 04 01:35:35 destinal, that actually might be perfect Feb 04 01:36:00 egaudet: jacques: nm -D libhidqemukeypad.so |grep ' D ' shows that single exported function PluginTable() that I was talking about Feb 04 01:36:07 take keyboard input stuff it through hidd to luna Feb 04 01:36:20 interesting Feb 04 01:36:56 egaudet: sure, that's what the emulator has to do -- a real device does the same but with the GPIO pins etc Feb 04 01:37:12 doesnt the sdl pach contain hidd calls? Feb 04 01:37:29 PuffTheMagic, listening to hidd, not anything with creating a plugin for it Feb 04 01:37:38 PuffTheMagic: yeah but we don't want to call hidd, we want to be called by it Feb 04 01:39:03 destinal: have you tried using a NSAPI plugin for hidd? Feb 04 01:39:40 as a skel Feb 04 01:39:46 PuffTheMagic: hidd has a totally different API (with a couple tiny similarities, the use of a callback table for one) Feb 04 01:40:14 destinal: yep I was looking at that earlier Feb 04 01:40:55 the thing is, first we need to make sure we understand the struct returned by PluginTable ... probably mostly pointers to internal functions: HidPluginGenericExit HidPluginGenericGetEvents HidPluginGenericInit HidPluginGenericResume HidPluginGenericSuspend Feb 04 01:41:03 I was doing objdump -d on it but I don't know arm assembly nearly well enough Feb 04 01:42:32 but yeah, it seems to define those functions and return pointers to them similarly to how NPAPI does it Feb 04 01:43:11 then you can just call the functions themselves Feb 04 01:43:15 egaudet: ping Feb 04 01:44:01 PuffTheMagic, pong Feb 04 01:44:27 egaudet: did you ever figure out how to set orientation in SDL? Feb 04 01:44:36 is there any reason ScummVM doesn't show up on preware? (the ipkg is listed on /home/nkumar/research/MultivenueStatistics15M/data/rttrades_20100115.csv.gz) Feb 04 01:44:38 in SDL? Feb 04 01:44:41 whoops, wrong copy+paste Feb 04 01:44:52 the ipkg is listed on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:ScummVM Feb 04 01:44:58 egaudet: well with what ever you were working on Feb 04 01:45:18 if using SDL it auto sets orientation based on the width/height to setVideo or whatever that call is Feb 04 01:45:26 a repository does not the wiki make Feb 04 01:45:43 mdklein RE'd PDL enough to be able to use PDL_SetOrientation() for the notifications and stuff Feb 04 01:45:48 PuffTheMagic: yes set orientation is in the libpdl wiki entry Feb 04 01:45:50 and in opengles you have to just draw/rotate it Feb 04 01:46:10 zsoc: no that just sets the notification area Feb 04 01:46:14 so SDL using swsurface just set width > height will do it for you Feb 04 01:46:17 set_orientation is important for notification tho Feb 04 01:46:22 oh you said that lol Feb 04 01:46:34 SDL using opengles, you have to use like glRotate etc.. Feb 04 01:46:41 egaudet: ok yeah, i already knew all that Feb 04 01:47:02 I didn't :-) good info Feb 04 01:47:09 synackfin: no-one has done the key bindings and packaging for scummvm yet Feb 04 01:47:36 PuffTheMagic, you need an opengles example of rotating it? Feb 04 01:47:39 synackfin: where is an ipkg listed? Feb 04 01:47:46 egaudet: no Feb 04 01:47:54 rwhitby: hm, you're right, it's just scratchbox instructions Feb 04 01:48:00 egaudet: i was just curious if you had answered all questions Feb 04 01:48:19 did you figure something else out or? Feb 04 01:48:32 but yeah I figured just had to use glRotate() properly Feb 04 01:48:36 bbl Feb 04 01:48:43 synackfin: it's sitting there waiting for someone to make a name for themselves in the webOS history like dtzWill did with VBA. Feb 04 01:48:45 egaudet: no i just forgot about, and re-remebered the w/h trick in sdl Feb 04 01:48:57 and i wasnt sure if you already knew it or not Feb 04 01:49:21 rwhitby: I though he made his name on Quake? Feb 04 01:50:37 rwhitby: maybe there's an issue stopping it from being so simple? ;) Feb 04 01:50:55 egaudet: I am interested in glRotate() Feb 04 01:51:22 zsoc: if it was simple I would have done it myself and made a name for myself ;-) Feb 04 01:51:41 zsoc: I would like to just know what the issue is ... about three ppl have tried and given up Feb 04 01:52:00 glrotatef() is much more fun ;) Feb 04 01:52:16 heh Feb 04 01:52:20 jacques: when I get around to tryin I'll let you know :D Feb 04 01:52:40 jacques: I don't understand why no one has tried building it against an edited keysym lib Feb 04 01:53:00 unless the problem is input doesn't work _at all_ Feb 04 01:53:25 oh is that the fceux issue too Feb 04 01:53:25 hmm - hardest thing about meta-doctor is getting the rootfs md5sum verification to work at the end after the changes. I wonder if Jason has realised that yet ;-) Feb 04 01:53:48 PuffTheMagic: no fceu just needs a gles primitive and it works. Feb 04 01:54:11 in a debian chroot it works Feb 04 01:54:20 when i ran it on the real fs keys were wonky Feb 04 01:54:41 I think I need to work out how to do a script which runs as the last thing for the doctor after the rootfs check is done. Feb 04 01:55:32 rwhitby: do you have an option for enabling devmode and usbnet Feb 04 01:55:47 PuffTheMagic: devmode yes, usbnet no. what is required for usbnet Feb 04 01:56:03 touching a file Feb 04 01:56:08 yeah Feb 04 01:56:17 does it disable anything else Feb 04 01:56:29 /var/gadget/usbnet_enabled Feb 04 01:56:50 not that I can tell - I have both usbnet_enabled and novacom_enabled in there and they work simultaneously Feb 04 01:56:52 no it does not disable anything Feb 04 01:58:37 done and pushed Feb 04 01:58:55 rwhitby: is there a way to add a root ssh key? Feb 04 01:59:03 bbiab Feb 04 01:59:11 PuffTheMagic: yes. you really should just read the Makefile ... Feb 04 01:59:20 rwhitby: but asking is more fun Feb 04 02:09:29 does anyone know anything about how to get to the settings for the auto airplane mode? if i remember correctly i think it is a patch that allowed to program it. Feb 04 02:11:24 Hmm the doctor has a BypassFirstUseStage class .... Feb 04 02:11:37 keenah: I've never seen such a patch in Preware Feb 04 02:14:33 keenah, that's an app, not a patch Feb 04 02:14:45 it is probably on precentral or some other feed Feb 04 02:19:49 what does it do? Feb 04 02:24:45 Does anyone else have problems with gmail notifications? Feb 04 02:24:49 I can't get any Feb 04 02:25:02 It's not syncing Feb 04 02:26:53 looks like tcpostflash.sh is what I'm looking for Feb 04 02:31:32 Great.. My gmail account won't remove itself Feb 04 02:31:43 has anyone compiled gst-bad with GSM support for the pre? Feb 04 02:33:52 rwhitby: ah, you're just going to replace files post verify? Feb 04 02:34:08 destinal-pre: considering it. Feb 04 02:34:31 destinal-pre: also thinking about how to auto-install Preware Feb 04 02:34:46 hrm Feb 04 02:35:20 check out how carrier cust happens Feb 04 02:36:58 you just install ipks Feb 04 02:37:31 heh, make a webosinternals carrier customisation Feb 04 02:38:59 oh one issue re preware is cryptofs may not be setup Feb 04 02:39:29 destinal-pre: yeah, that's why I'm looking for a way to run a script after all that is set up Feb 04 02:39:43 it'll need to be at least two stage Feb 04 02:40:05 just set up upstart script Feb 04 02:40:43 yeah Feb 04 02:41:01 I'm looking for the way to insert a script to set up the upstart script :-) Feb 04 02:41:36 xenoph0be: please define gst-bad "with gsm support"... afaik gst plugins don't access the phone modem :P Feb 04 02:42:27 curious rod, was looking to do a wizard in xt to create upstart scripts Feb 04 02:42:32 zsoc: maybe YOURS don't Feb 04 02:42:54 destinal-pre: lol, silly man Feb 04 02:42:55 er sorry.. :D its Gstreamer... gst-plugins-bad-0.10.9.tgz. GSM 1.0 is a compression format for WAV files. used mostely to compress voicemail etc Feb 04 02:43:02 mssed the convo though Feb 04 02:43:16 post from the other chan: hey everybody, so I'm sure some of you have been following the SDL VNC thread that zonyl started, we've been discussing ways about getting X11 to play nice on the Pre. Have any of you found any good methods? Feb 04 02:43:40 xenoph0be: OH, ha, lol sorry about that. I was unfamiliar with that plugin. I assume it requires external dependencies? Feb 04 02:43:52 i think all that would have to be done is to cross compile the package for ARM and install it on the pre. I can tool around in linux, but im not that good Feb 04 02:44:30 but then again, i dunno Feb 04 02:44:43 xenoph0be: i can do it, but i'd rather not do the research if you already have. does it require external dependencies? and what is the lib/binary name? Feb 04 02:44:54 phil_bw: are you talking about running an X server on the Pre, or porting X clients with some sort of replacement back-end so an X server is not required, or just running X clients on the Pre and displaying on a remote X server on another machine/ Feb 04 02:45:26 zsoc: havent gotten that far yet to know what might be missing on the phone. I just know which package it resides in Feb 04 02:46:01 rwhitby, I guess that's part of my question. Currently we're running an x server and VNCing into it, which works but isn't the best method. I guess I'm more curious what a *better* while still being *doable* method would be. Feb 04 02:46:15 phil_bw: what's the goal? Feb 04 02:46:33 xenoph0be: well if it's in 10.9 it's a straight compile, unless it requires an external dependency :p if you can find me this information i will do it Feb 04 02:47:04 rwhitby, mainly to run rdesktop, a vnc client, and possibly pidgin and other small apps Feb 04 02:47:34 so you don't care if X is running on the Pre or not, you just want some apps that happen to have a X windows backend at the moment Feb 04 02:47:38 I've successfully connected to a remote desktop server but it was barely usable Feb 04 02:48:11 rwhitby, that's correct I think Feb 04 02:48:24 xenoph0be: also, i can verify it has a wav gsm _decoder_ (as og bad 0.10.7), but I can not verify there is an _encoder_, or do you not need one? Feb 04 02:49:02 and I apologize if I don't seem too knowledgable, it's been ages since I really messed with Linux (I've spent the last many years doing PalmOS development...) Feb 04 02:49:16 phil_bw: if you want X to work _on the pre_ in a card, you'll have to dive into the kdrive git and find out why SDL support was removed Feb 04 02:49:21 rwhitby: shim libs would be nice Feb 04 02:49:41 has anyone tested stubbed libpdl.so? Feb 04 02:49:51 zsoc, that was basically the next step, that or improve SDL VNC Feb 04 02:50:03 err reimplemented but compatuble Feb 04 02:50:22 zsoc: I dont need to encode gsm formatted files. looking on the Gstreamer site it has an encoder and decoder... I just want to play the attached files from my Avaya phone systems voicemail Feb 04 02:50:26 at work Feb 04 02:50:39 xenoph0be: ok, and what is the name of the decoder? Feb 04 02:50:54 whats the best way to fix a theme issue? I've got a friend who I think didnt remove a theme before an update and now he cant install or remove a theme Feb 04 02:51:32 Puff: we don't generally need bother stubbing with staging env Feb 04 02:52:12 n/m, libgstgsm, looks like it _does_ require external dependencies Feb 04 02:52:33 xenoph0be: give me 5 minutes to find out if the dependency is arm compatible, if so I don't mind doing this Feb 04 02:52:46 zsoc: the generic information about the http://bit.ly/a4EOyJ Feb 04 02:52:59 psykoz: it is an app? would u happen to know the name? i have been up & down on my list of apps and i dont c any not even related to the airplane mode. Feb 04 02:52:59 GreedyB: wosqi has some fancy 'restore original theme' button, no idea how it works Feb 04 02:53:01 zsoc: sweetness thanks Feb 04 02:55:57 hmm.. --disable-gsm is probably a good reason for me not to have this lib lol Feb 04 02:56:19 hehe... no worries if its a huge pain in the arse Feb 04 02:57:46 i havent lost sleep over it yet, and dont plan on it any time soon Feb 04 02:57:55 xenoph0be: hm... this may have brought up more interesting things Feb 04 02:58:08 there is native support for sdlvideosink in 0.10.9 bad, that i never noticed Feb 04 02:58:21 that means we can playback video in an sdl card Feb 04 02:58:28 which means we can completely ignore MediaServer Feb 04 02:58:39 and make our own mediapicker/player api Feb 04 02:58:48 nift Feb 04 02:58:59 which means we can play any video file, from gui picker Feb 04 02:59:12 s/any video file/any video filetype we care to add support for/ Feb 04 02:59:12 zsoc meant: which means we can play any video filetype we care to add support for, from gui picker Feb 04 02:59:25 is that interesting? i don't know, i think so **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 04 02:59:57 2010