**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 04 02:59:57 2010 Feb 04 03:00:06 xenoph0be: you'll never guess what library the gsm decoder depends on Feb 04 03:00:10 yea, then we dont have to wait for palm... Feb 04 03:00:15 destinal-pre: customisation stage doesn't run postinst scripts Feb 04 03:00:26 zsoc: you are correct... i wont :D Feb 04 03:00:33 xenoph0be: libgsm xD Feb 04 03:00:36 lol Feb 04 03:00:39 destinal-pre: but could be used to dump an upstart file in place Feb 04 03:01:15 rwhitby: ah, cool. Feb 04 03:01:19 they also pollute the palm ipkg database, which is known to be problematic Feb 04 03:01:36 why? Feb 04 03:01:53 why known to .. Feb 04 03:02:07 mytether polluting the palm ipkg database was the confirmed cause of the continual OTA re-update syndrome Feb 04 03:02:10 I need to dig into linux further again... Feb 04 03:03:47 xenoph0be: building now Feb 04 03:04:04 xenoph0be: does the filepicker/mediaserver pick up the .wav's, and they just don't playback? or does it not recognize format? Feb 04 03:05:09 Does LGPL allow for binary redistribution assuming the source is available? Feb 04 03:05:26 rwhitby: mytether is fail, but does anyone know why its ipks caused issue but carrier ipks do not? Feb 04 03:05:47 destinal-pre: I expect because Palm knows the list of carrier ipks Feb 04 03:06:30 zsoc, i believe it does Feb 04 03:06:53 pretty sure several of the packages on debian and ubuntu are covered under lgpl Feb 04 03:07:27 I'm just not familiar with the "L" part, but I'll go rtfm Feb 04 03:07:31 "using the Lesser GPL permits use of the library in proprietary programs; using the ordinary GPL for a library makes it available only for free programs." Feb 04 03:08:09 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html Feb 04 03:09:02 ic Feb 04 03:09:22 ask me while i'm building the entire plugin package for this 1 plugin Feb 04 03:09:41 while, or why? Feb 04 03:09:45 :P Feb 04 03:09:47 er, why Feb 04 03:10:12 i mean, why while Feb 04 03:10:20 ah Feb 04 03:10:31 that should not make it more clear to you lol Feb 04 03:10:38 it doesnt Feb 04 03:10:40 :D Feb 04 03:10:57 lol your nick is familiar... why do i know you? Feb 04 03:11:10 i dunno, havent been around IRC for years Feb 04 03:11:14 oh this is bad Feb 04 03:11:25 i'm listening to a capacitor in my powersupply melt/leak Feb 04 03:11:25 and have only posted on precentral forums a few times Feb 04 03:11:30 neat Feb 04 03:11:38 not really, my box could turn off at any moment Feb 04 03:11:40 love the smell Feb 04 03:11:58 that's a great sound... like... sizzling Feb 04 03:12:24 yep Feb 04 03:12:45 ah, i blew a resistor... so a bit too much voltage frying my caps... yuk Feb 04 03:13:19 fun fun Feb 04 03:13:42 So the file downloads on the phone's email app (it has a .wav extension), after it downloads there Feb 04 03:13:44 i wonder if i could find a way to replace the powersupply without turning off the box... hmm. prolly off topic here lol Feb 04 03:13:52 xenoph0be: and then? Feb 04 03:14:05 there's a play button and hit it and it changes to a pause button, but doesnt complain Feb 04 03:14:12 lemme check the messages log Feb 04 03:14:12 interesting Feb 04 03:14:16 does the file have filesize? Feb 04 03:14:37 Roy-Pre101: g'day Feb 04 03:14:40 howdy. Feb 04 03:14:54 I wanted to come in here and toss out an idea that hit me the other day. Feb 04 03:15:12 Roy-Pre101: you should come more often :) sorry i don't make it your way much... maybe once the pdk hits Feb 04 03:15:27 ObjC compiling + PDK + cocos2d ported to SDL = easy porting of certain iPhone apps to webOS. Feb 04 03:15:49 http://code.google.com/p/cocos2d-iphone/ Feb 04 03:16:00 Roy-Pre101: your idea is reprehensible, you are not welcome here. Feb 04 03:16:01 xD Feb 04 03:16:17 :_( Feb 04 03:16:21 Hmm - I can't see where /usr/bin/contextupload is started Feb 04 03:16:30 Roy-Pre101: it's actually quite reasonable. i despise objc with a passion, which is where my trigger was on freaking out there ;) Feb 04 03:16:43 xenoph0be: so... i got this binary Feb 04 03:16:57 I haven't worked with ObjC enough to really despise it yet. :) Feb 04 03:17:26 alrighty? Feb 04 03:17:39 xenoph0be: let me tar it with a readme about the licensing, and i'll ompload it Feb 04 03:17:46 best place to paste the output of the messages log Feb 04 03:17:49 Roy, that's really really sick Feb 04 03:17:56 xenoph0be: webos.pastebin.com ? Feb 04 03:18:03 hrm, maybe? :D Feb 04 03:18:41 Roy-Pre101: pardon my ignorance... wouldn't that only help port cocos2d compatible games? Feb 04 03:19:00 yes Feb 04 03:19:05 which is many of them? Feb 04 03:19:11 ::Shrug:: Feb 04 03:19:27 and excuse my ignorance... but i thought objc was /optional/ for iphone programming? Feb 04 03:19:37 cocos2d is itself something to look at porting to c++. It provides some pretty nice functions for game development Feb 04 03:19:42 anyway, seems like an interesting idea Feb 04 03:19:49 anyone else just get the email about mobile dropbox? Feb 04 03:19:51 Roy-Pre101: reminds me of LOVE/lua Feb 04 03:19:59 2d-engine wise, that is Feb 04 03:20:36 ::nods:: Feb 04 03:20:44 zsoc: not really Feb 04 03:20:51 zsoc: objc was optional for writing the bulk of your program (since it's just native code... you aren't obliged to use the objc runtime if you don't wanna......) but you had to have SOME obj-c to tie into the gui Feb 04 03:20:58 I guess I should drop onto their IRC server and ask there how ludicrous the idea is. Feb 04 03:21:56 dtzWill: swishy: got it, thanks Feb 04 03:22:29 Roy-Pre101: er, they may/may not know/care, you're better off in here asking about sdl porting Feb 04 03:22:38 i'll take a look at the engine if you give me a few Feb 04 03:22:58 Go for it. Feb 04 03:23:10 zsoc: if your interested here's the output from /var/log/messages from the attempted playing of the file... http://webos.pastebin.com/m441d71c4 Feb 04 03:24:09 it died hard Feb 04 03:24:10 hehe Feb 04 03:24:34 xenoph0be: that's a _great_ sign Feb 04 03:24:47 that means it's likely to work just dropping the binary in the proper location and forcing registration Feb 04 03:25:01 scweet Feb 04 03:25:05 schweet even Feb 04 03:25:23 JayCanuck: gday Feb 04 03:25:27 ho Feb 04 03:25:29 *hi Feb 04 03:26:27 zsoc: i know there've been people looking for this capability for a while. I had it on my centro, but had to have 3rd party software Feb 04 03:26:54 So I got my first touchstone today (ordered from that dell clearance) Feb 04 03:27:05 man the back it comes with is so much nicer than that flimsy noisy stock one Feb 04 03:27:06 xenoph0be: well, this is the magic of linux Feb 04 03:27:13 yep Feb 04 03:27:17 xenoph0be: you have command line access to your pre? Feb 04 03:27:22 oh yea Feb 04 03:27:24 ssh Feb 04 03:27:26 and sftp Feb 04 03:27:44 usb, etc :D Feb 04 03:28:06 xenoph0be: wget http://omploader.org/vM2cwZw/libgstgsm.tar; tar zxvf libgstgsm.tar; mv libgstgsm.so /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/; gst-inspect Feb 04 03:28:20 lemme turn on rw Feb 04 03:28:25 right, sorry Feb 04 03:28:26 :D Feb 04 03:28:32 * zsoc scriptfails Feb 04 03:28:34 lol Feb 04 03:29:08 here goes Feb 04 03:29:48 in theory decodebin should "just work", finding this decoder Feb 04 03:29:58 if not, i need the new pastebin Feb 04 03:32:22 just modified my previous pastebin http://webos.pastebin.com/d3c0c7494 Feb 04 03:32:30 its at the bottom line 39 Feb 04 03:32:57 xenoph0be: oh duh Feb 04 03:32:58 lol my bad Feb 04 03:33:04 SUPER script fail Feb 04 03:33:08 JayCanuck: You were mentioned in the latest Wednesday News Roundup. :) Feb 04 03:33:10 sweet Feb 04 03:33:18 need to change the permissions ? Feb 04 03:33:36 xenoph0be: ln -s /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstgsm.so /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstgsm.so.1 Feb 04 03:33:41 ah Feb 04 03:33:42 Roy-Pre101, I saw :) I follow your twitter ;) Feb 04 03:33:44 symbolic links Feb 04 03:33:56 that's a good sign, again, means it grabbed the right decoder Feb 04 03:34:05 oh, wait Feb 04 03:34:08 that happened on inspect, bah Feb 04 03:34:11 well then we'll see lol Feb 04 03:34:20 that should allow gst-inspect to register the plugin att least Feb 04 03:34:39 after creating the symbolic link it gave the same error Feb 04 03:34:57 JayCanuck: how does ROM cooker handle the integrity check stage of the doctor? Feb 04 03:35:10 xenoph0be: can you verify the link? ls /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ | grep -i gsm Feb 04 03:35:53 yep lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 36 Feb 3 21:33 libgstgsm.so.1 -> /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstgsm.so Feb 04 03:35:58 rwhitby, currently a lot of it is unimplemented, but I believe the dcorrect way is the edit the package's md5sum list as well as the base md5sum file, eh? Feb 04 03:36:05 xenoph0be: oh, i'm sorry, i'm being an idiot again Feb 04 03:36:09 haha Feb 04 03:36:23 zsoc: thanks for you mad skills/patience Feb 04 03:36:25 xenoph0be: i gave you libgstgsm.so but not it's dependency :p i thought it was statically compiled like x264 was Feb 04 03:36:41 xenoph0be: i would need less patience if i got it right the first itme :P Feb 04 03:37:05 oh that was odd Feb 04 03:37:23 i exited my novacom env and i ended up in my gentoo chroot... how the hell Feb 04 03:37:30 lol Feb 04 03:39:22 xenoph0be: cd /tmp; wget http://omploader.org/vM2cwag/libgsm.tar; tar zxvf libgsm.tar; mv libgsm.so /usr/lib/; cd /usr/lib; ln -s libgsm.so libgsm.so.1 Feb 04 03:39:24 or something like that Feb 04 03:39:47 and then try to register again Feb 04 03:40:25 i wish the webOS supported send to omploader Feb 04 03:41:01 PuffTheMagic: is there a utility? ala pastebinit? Feb 04 03:41:06 omploaderit? lol Feb 04 03:41:15 huh Feb 04 03:41:18 there is a cli tool Feb 04 03:41:24 nice Feb 04 03:41:24 but i want something integrated into webos Feb 04 03:41:27 like photobucket Feb 04 03:41:27 oic Feb 04 03:41:36 is omploader api open? Feb 04 03:41:46 yeah Feb 04 03:41:50 i was thiking of making something Feb 04 03:41:51 make a patch that uses the CLI tool Feb 04 03:42:06 cli tool needs ruby Feb 04 03:42:10 eew Feb 04 03:42:16 ruby is in optware Feb 04 03:42:30 how large of a footprint? Feb 04 03:42:34 :/ Feb 04 03:42:50 it could be rewritten with out ruby support Feb 04 03:43:14 your tarball only had a symlink Feb 04 03:43:23 zsoc: your tarball only had a symlink Feb 04 03:43:32 xenoph0be: are you kidding me? Feb 04 03:43:43 unfortunately not Feb 04 03:43:46 tarball fail Feb 04 03:43:51 i am so full of fail :( Feb 04 03:43:55 i get so close to being awesome Feb 04 03:44:00 i should go back to 'make' Feb 04 03:44:00 lol Feb 04 03:44:31 this is what was there "libgsm.so -> libgsm.so.1.0.13" Feb 04 03:44:36 haha Feb 04 03:44:37 ty Feb 04 03:45:15 yeah usually the lib*.so.x.y is the file Feb 04 03:45:28 PuffTheMagic: i actually know that :/ just my low iq oversight Feb 04 03:45:33 PuffTheMagic: gentoo is working magic again btw Feb 04 03:45:36 lib*.so and lib*.so.x.y.z are the symlinks Feb 04 03:45:44 zsoc: it always does Feb 04 03:46:23 JayCanuck: InternalZ still doesn't have a Depends: line for FileMgr - are you planning to fix that any time soon? (it's a one line addition to a control file in the ipkg) Feb 04 03:46:51 xenoph0be: http://omploader.org/vM2cwbA/libgsm.tar Feb 04 03:46:58 yep, already told ya the next version will Feb 04 03:47:00 Hmm, there's no python on the Pre, is there? Could go for raw cocos2d (non-iPhone version) Feb 04 03:47:08 PuffTheMagic: interesting it lets me overwrite files on omploader... is it because it knows i uploaded the first one? Feb 04 03:47:28 u sure u overwrote it Feb 04 03:47:51 Roy-Pre101: " lib support" is basically just us adding the lib 90% of the time. most of this stuff is already arm compat Feb 04 03:47:54 PuffTheMagic: yep, i checked filesize Feb 04 03:47:58 * rwhitby wonders why Terminus shows as Type:Unknown in preware Feb 04 03:48:09 whether x = ruby or python etc Feb 04 03:48:37 Roy-Pre101: python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 are all in optware Feb 04 03:49:01 Roy-Pre101: looking through the iphone version, my head is spinning... i gather the python version might be more straight forward Feb 04 03:49:10 maybe it's just because i don't know iphone stuff Feb 04 03:49:24 xenoph0be: report? Feb 04 03:49:43 zsoc: you could actually hear a capacitor death in your PSU? Feb 04 03:49:53 oh resistor Feb 04 03:49:54 In their IRC they suggested comparing python version to the iphone version. I'm not sure how fruitful that would be. Feb 04 03:49:56 destinal-home: still hearing it. it's sizzling. Feb 04 03:50:07 can barely touch the ps, _super_ hot Feb 04 03:50:44 zsoc: so, uh, replace the resistor and the cap before the rest cascade kills? Feb 04 03:50:45 Roy-Pre101: sounds like a big diff :p but i'm unfamiliar with any of the architecture, would be a project. i would need slightly more understanding of what this would help port Feb 04 03:50:54 destinal-home: i'm compiling stuff ;) Feb 04 03:51:09 zsoc: got it to inspect without crappin out Feb 04 03:51:31 zsoc: PSU's can take out a lot of other stuff with catastrophic failures, that's a big gamble Feb 04 03:51:34 xenoph0be: you now have gsmdec support for wav :) now whether it _works_ or not for what you're trying to do is a different story Feb 04 03:51:37 * rwhitby tests meta-doctor with disable upload daemon feature Feb 04 03:51:51 destinal-home: er, this is a 6 year old psu.. i sort of want it to die Feb 04 03:52:04 zsoc: sure but not to trash your motherboard, right? :) Feb 04 03:52:05 you don't want it to die connected to your motherboard Feb 04 03:52:12 zsoc: no doubt Feb 04 03:52:24 destinal-home: my atx cable is fused Feb 04 03:52:29 maybe he wants a new motherboard too Feb 04 03:52:33 hehe Feb 04 03:52:45 jacques: shall we burn down his house too? Feb 04 03:53:00 well, you know, if you've got good insurance.. Feb 04 03:53:08 * zsoc is a rebel Feb 04 03:53:08 zsoc: just try not to die in fire :) Feb 04 03:53:18 destinal-home: why? most of my stuff is in git ;) Feb 04 03:53:22 lmao Feb 04 03:53:28 er.. hmm.. well not any of the gst stuff really Feb 04 03:53:41 zsoc: okay then you have to life to commit Feb 04 03:53:49 s/life/live/ Feb 04 03:53:50 destinal-home meant: zsoc: okay then you have to live to commit Feb 04 03:54:02 zsoc: LOL Feb 04 03:54:06 destinal-home: lol i'm just waiting for xenoph0be to get back to me on playing one of his magical voicemail wavs ;) Feb 04 03:54:25 zsoc: I wrote a GSM to wave transcoder once Feb 04 03:54:29 waiting ona reboot Feb 04 03:54:53 xenoph0be: reboot... what? Feb 04 03:55:04 zsoc: building an IVR out of a US Robotics voice modem Feb 04 03:55:21 destinal-home: yeah, ffmpeg would do it on the fly, but this solution is _much_ sexier.. and 2318382183 times more important, it's my proof-of-concept for added filesupport :> Feb 04 03:55:49 zsoc: phonage Feb 04 03:56:12 xenoph0be: why? it's.. linux Feb 04 03:56:13 zsoc: rebooted the phone... and it worked... tried before reboot and it did the same thing... died hard. Feb 04 03:56:18 interesting Feb 04 03:56:21 xenoph0be: wait, IT WORKS? Feb 04 03:56:26 hehe Feb 04 03:56:27 aye Feb 04 03:56:32 plays fine now Feb 04 03:56:32 zsoc: this was before there were open source libraries to do damn near anything. there _was_ sox but its GSM support only worked on certain formats of GSM (turns out there are multiple) Feb 04 03:56:33 xenoph0be: WHY ARENT YOU YELLING Feb 04 03:56:40 YEA IT EFFIN WORKS! Feb 04 03:56:40 :D Feb 04 03:56:41 xenoph0be: WE JUST ADDED GSMWAVDEC SUPPORT TO YOUR PRE Feb 04 03:56:45 thank you :) Feb 04 03:56:49 HELLZ YYA Feb 04 03:56:51 xenoph0be: can anyone use this? Should i pack it up? Feb 04 03:56:59 does anyone even know what gsm encoding _is_? Feb 04 03:57:07 wat? Feb 04 03:57:11 there's been people looking for it on the interwebs Feb 04 03:57:18 I DONT KNOW WHAT GSMWAVDEC IS O_O Feb 04 03:57:22 destinal-home: you have proved to me before that you are a genius, you don't have to do it again ;) Feb 04 03:57:23 i did some searching and people were complaining that it didnt work Feb 04 03:57:31 I DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS AND I WANT IT SO BAD Feb 04 03:57:38 xenoph0be: i'll make a package for distribution Feb 04 03:57:44 Nah vince, i'm still pissed at you Feb 04 03:57:44 * VincentLaw pulls an Apple fanboy Feb 04 03:57:48 you don't get to find out O_o Feb 04 03:57:52 zsoc: you da man! Feb 04 03:57:53 at me? for what? Feb 04 03:58:04 Knowing secrets of 1.4todayisbad theory. Feb 04 03:58:18 rwhitby: is there anything conceptually wrong with distributing GPL/LGPL binaries, and putting them in /usr/lib? Feb 04 03:58:19 FuMan_: lmao Feb 04 03:58:29 destinal-home, now i'm pissed at you too. Feb 04 03:58:33 rwhitby: also the ipk would need to have a script to put them there, obviously, and run gst-inspect to register them Feb 04 03:58:47 well be pissed all you want. :p Feb 04 03:59:03 I never said I knew anything either Feb 04 03:59:22 ... solid point Feb 04 03:59:34 zsoc: as long as they are built with the autobuilder, so the sources are published automatically, there is no problem. But we'd be more likely to put them in /usr/local/lib and use -rpath to find them, so we don't collide with palm libs Feb 04 03:59:36 heh, gsmwavdec doesnt even google Feb 04 03:59:40 pretty sure its made up O_o Feb 04 03:59:45 FuMan_: it just sounds so much like conspiracy theory Feb 04 03:59:56 rwhitby: ok, but i don't know how to do that... if i give you the source/info, can that be done? Feb 04 04:00:26 FuMan_: wav's which are encoded with the 'gsm' library.. which does.. something. i think it's voice-specific compression Feb 04 04:00:37 apparently people use it to download voicemails for some corporate systems Feb 04 04:00:57 interesting. Feb 04 04:01:10 Hey guys. Is there a jabber client for WebOS or a patch/hack to make the google talk client connect to my corporate IM jabber server? Feb 04 04:01:12 rwhitby: oh... building it on autobuilder is going to _suck_. right now it's build in a package with 30 other plugins... Feb 04 04:01:13 zsoc: correct. a lot of voicemail systems that attach wav files to emails (IE Cisco, Avaya, and others) attach GSM 6.10 files Feb 04 04:01:15 because they are tiny Feb 04 04:01:29 FuMan_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV#WAV_file_compression_codecs_compared Feb 04 04:01:29 oh GSM the /codec/ Feb 04 04:01:39 well that's just a step away from ventrilo support too :p Feb 04 04:01:49 rwhitby: which relys on ...... pretty large libs... Feb 04 04:01:52 zsoc: so I'm a little surprised your resistor doesn't fail open, especially in overcurrent. Feb 04 04:02:01 I mean it should basically fry also Feb 04 04:02:21 destinal-home: i agree with that.. i dunno what to tell you. Feb 04 04:02:25 wow... so my selfish desire to have the vmail attachments from my office might have helped make steps toward other bigger and better things Feb 04 04:02:25 sweet Feb 04 04:02:31 i'm going to let it cool down, re test all the components Feb 04 04:02:32 who's in charge of checking and accepting submitted patches, and how often do they bother doing it? :p Feb 04 04:02:33 i guess i'll bbl Feb 04 04:02:38 xenoph0be: yes, you made it happen :) Feb 04 04:02:54 zsoc: couldnt have done it without you Feb 04 04:03:09 and you fail script skillz Feb 04 04:03:11 :D Feb 04 04:03:17 xenoph0be: it's funny, i already did all this work. i have file support decoders coming out of my eyes Feb 04 04:03:21 bbl Feb 04 04:03:37 later zsoc thanks again Feb 04 04:03:51 too late Feb 04 04:04:08 so first gsm, then we get divx, mkv containers, and softsub support, naturally! Feb 04 04:04:19 VincentLaw: dBsooner deals with the patch feed Feb 04 04:04:28 ah that makes sense Feb 04 04:04:29 thanks :p Feb 04 04:04:30 good lord, xvid support would save me 5 lifetimes of converting Feb 04 04:04:45 he's snowed under changing a windows server 2008 exchange cluster Feb 04 04:04:47 zunehd is getting xvid support. i was surprised at that Feb 04 04:05:25 360 and ps3 have it Feb 04 04:05:29 i dont see why everyone doesnt just cave Feb 04 04:05:44 because h264 is the future >.> Feb 04 04:05:58 and everyones collections are in the past Feb 04 04:06:00 o_O Feb 04 04:06:10 well, partly, i guess. Feb 04 04:06:11 I have very few xvid files left actually Feb 04 04:06:24 most of my stuff was re-released in HD, which of course also meant h264 Feb 04 04:06:37 i just can't justify archiving 40+ gb tv series Feb 04 04:06:45 FuMan_: no doubt Feb 04 04:06:45 also, the 360 may have divx support, but it has god awful audio codec support Feb 04 04:06:45 movies, currently airing shows, one thing Feb 04 04:06:55 but seasons... thats tough Feb 04 04:07:05 VincentLaw: love me some ps3ms Feb 04 04:07:11 i got a google chuckle out of the 22mbit 14gig Lost episode from yesterday Feb 04 04:07:17 ps3ms? Feb 04 04:07:22 ps3 media server Feb 04 04:07:27 oh screw that Feb 04 04:07:30 :D Feb 04 04:07:31 XBMC on a macbook > that Feb 04 04:07:50 Boxee > XBMC on a macbook Feb 04 04:08:06 XBMC on a macbook > Boxee. boxee has terrible show support Feb 04 04:08:13 ps3ms works well for me though... transcode the mkvs on the fly to the ps3 streaming hd content wirelessly Feb 04 04:08:46 ew transcoding Feb 04 04:09:05 lol Feb 04 04:09:27 well, tsmuxer just remuxes the files from mkv to vob Feb 04 04:09:29 or whatever Feb 04 04:09:29 I can't transcode 1080p in realtime :p Feb 04 04:09:39 ah Feb 04 04:09:47 but does it have subtitle support? Feb 04 04:09:49 I didn't think it did Feb 04 04:09:53 not tsmuxer Feb 04 04:10:01 mplayer does Feb 04 04:10:16 heh Feb 04 04:10:21 why would you need to transcode? Feb 04 04:10:39 rwhitby: congratulations Re: that .AU safe harbor for ISP's ruling Feb 04 04:11:07 FuMan_: the ps3 doesnt natively support mkv containers Feb 04 04:11:23 oh, we are back on the ps3 Feb 04 04:11:24 mplayer, have that on my wii, horridly unstable there :/ Feb 04 04:11:29 thought we were doing the boxee/xbmc thing Feb 04 04:11:38 heh, for sure Vincent Feb 04 04:11:38 of course it's just ffmpeg underlying, and xbmc has that so :p Feb 04 04:11:43 set that up for my mother, mistake. Feb 04 04:11:59 rwhitby: the sensible decision but with courts these days common sense is far from common Feb 04 04:12:22 er not mplayer, MEncoder Feb 04 04:12:25 demmit Feb 04 04:13:00 meh same difference, just different direction :p Feb 04 04:13:09 aye... anyway Feb 04 04:13:12 must get sleep Feb 04 04:14:21 gnite all Feb 04 04:14:25 night Feb 04 04:15:32 later folks. Feb 04 04:15:39 Interesting (re: android code being pulled from linux) - http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/android-kernel-problems.html Feb 04 04:16:42 destinal-home: you're talking about something I haven't heard about :-) Feb 04 04:16:56 destinal-home: indeed Feb 04 04:17:09 rwhitby: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/166348,iinet-wins-film-industrys-case-torn-to-shreds.aspx Feb 04 04:17:38 destinal-home: && rwhitby are in .au? Feb 04 04:18:10 swishy: rwhitby is. I'm in US Feb 04 04:18:23 destinal-home: I ignore .au news :-) .us news too. Feb 04 04:18:59 ahh Feb 04 04:19:05 :) Feb 04 04:19:10 rwhitby: well, it would have sucked to have your ISP's have to become big brother. though I guess the internet routes around that sort of thing overall Feb 04 04:19:41 yep. any sort of legislative impact on the internet just gets routed around, so I don't bother concerning myself with such things Feb 04 04:20:36 ah they were/are playing same games in .nz .fr iirc Feb 04 04:28:09 hola WHE's and WHE-ettes Feb 04 04:29:45 so I talked to my ARM ASM friend Feb 04 04:29:49 he seems interested Feb 04 04:29:55 cryptk|work: excellent :D Feb 04 04:30:02 his new phone is a droid though... Feb 04 04:30:21 but he is thinking that if he helps set it up, it could be adapted to the droid without much extra work Feb 04 04:30:42 so maybe this weekend me and him will meet up and start working something out Feb 04 04:30:53 cryptk|work: hola, muchacho Feb 04 04:30:57 rwhitby: if I an get something to build on the widk, will it work with the autobuilder? or is it a different env? Feb 04 04:31:07 destinal-home: hola vato Feb 04 04:32:00 so if he finds the time to work on it we will be simultaneously trying to get android to run on the pre.. and webos to run on the droid... lol Feb 04 04:32:15 all depending on source code availability of course Feb 04 04:32:23 cryptk|work: at least it's anotherOMAP3430 :) Feb 04 04:32:38 yeah, that is why it kinda works out that his new phone is a droid Feb 04 04:33:08 so if I manage to get this working... would that make me a WHE? Feb 04 04:33:09 lol Feb 04 04:33:42 oh wow Feb 04 04:33:50 mytether just got an article on engadget >.> Feb 04 04:33:56 NOOOOO!!! Feb 04 04:34:06 I hate MyTether... Feb 04 04:34:23 it could have been an awesome piece of software, if it didn't break yourphone... Feb 04 04:34:24 wow, something that didnt come from the bussom of Sir Steve Jobs made it on engadget? Feb 04 04:34:28 are they flaming it? Feb 04 04:34:36 why do u hate it? Feb 04 04:34:58 keenah, because it breaks half the phones functions Feb 04 04:35:05 it replaces your wifi drivers with patched versions of outdated drivers Feb 04 04:35:08 i was thinking of getting it... i need one! Feb 04 04:35:11 which breaks alot of things Feb 04 04:35:19 cryptk|work: a WHE and a fully vested member of the lollipop guild! :) Feb 04 04:35:21 freetether Feb 04 04:35:32 destinal-home: I think I am too tall for that... Feb 04 04:35:35 damn... Feb 04 04:35:39 really? so theres no way to use the phone for internet connection? Feb 04 04:35:57 freetether Feb 04 04:36:14 from what ive been reading on the mytether site the next verison is supposed to use MHS like freetether does Feb 04 04:36:21 I haven't tried it yet (though I do have it installed Feb 04 04:36:24 what do u mean? freetether is good or bad? Feb 04 04:36:25 but i havent tested it cause i dont wanna have to doctor my phone again Feb 04 04:36:31 but I hear freetether works Feb 04 04:36:39 freetether is good Feb 04 04:36:42 mytether is the devil Feb 04 04:36:43 mytether is bad Feb 04 04:36:44 i'm using freetether and MHS to tether lately Feb 04 04:37:05 freetether has the benefit of not half-breaking your phone, nor requiring you to "donate" (pay) for software that is a grey area Feb 04 04:37:07 does freetether circumvent the extra tether charges? Feb 04 04:37:13 it is a sacred mission to outcompete mytether with free open source software Feb 04 04:37:15 where do i get it? is it really free or is that just the name? Feb 04 04:37:29 it is really free, made by webosinternals Feb 04 04:37:44 it is in the preware testing feed Feb 04 04:37:48 !testing-feed Feb 04 04:37:52 ~testing-feed Feb 04 04:37:54 testing-feed is probably a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Feb 04 04:38:08 infobot: confident of you. Feb 04 04:38:13 but remember, anything in that feed is considered an unfinished product Feb 04 04:38:26 ~destinal Feb 04 04:38:27 * infobot denies all knowledge of destinal. Feb 04 04:38:31 destinal-home: infobot did seem a little wishy washy there... Feb 04 04:38:38 lol Feb 04 04:38:43 ~cryptk Feb 04 04:38:53 lol... no love from the infobot Feb 04 04:39:04 ~botsmack Feb 04 04:39:05 OWW! Feb 04 04:39:12 ~~~~ Feb 04 04:39:13 ARGH!!! STOP IT cryptk|work!!! Feb 04 04:40:07 im sooooooooooooooo new in all of this i wouldnt have any idea as of what to do or where to even start... that link u sent me i opened it but it really didnt make much sense to me... i have to read it through. am i supposed to find the app there? should i wait till it is completely developed? Feb 04 04:41:29 keenah: anything in the testing feed is probably not quite ready for prime time, also requires manually editing feeds or browsing for ipks Feb 04 04:42:00 k... i just read it but i must b falling asleep or i really dont understand what it is im supposed to do... Feb 04 04:42:04 on the other hand, mytether is most assuredly worse IMO Feb 04 04:42:52 (judging purely by track record) Feb 04 04:43:12 keenah: basically that link tells you how to add then testing feed to preware, then you install freetether through preware... but again, testing feed is considered unfinished (wether it works or not) Feb 04 04:43:32 which reminds me... what in freetether is considered unfinished... there isn't anything on the wiki page about it Feb 04 04:43:51 destinal: hola! ur explanation makes sense but i dont know what to do with it or which ipks to pick unless they list them Feb 04 04:43:53 cryptk|work: ask PuffTheMagic_, it's his baby Feb 04 04:44:08 ~seen PuffTheMagic_ Feb 04 04:44:10 puffthemagic_ is currently on #webos-internals (26m 50s) #oe (26m 50s) #edev (26m 50s), last said: 'Robi_: that dont even make sense'. Feb 04 04:44:45 now that he's been beeped a few times... Feb 04 04:44:46 lol Feb 04 04:47:17 this suddenly got interesting for me at a level i can somewhat understnad but i have to go to bed. i have to get up in a couple of hours for work and i need some sleep... i'll come back tomorrow and see if theres more info i can use about it. id like to give it a try but certainly dont want to mess up my phone, that will make it worse. i wont know how to fix it! thx u all! Feb 04 04:48:05 keenah: cool. ttyl Feb 04 04:48:08 np, enjoy Feb 04 04:50:01 I have been doing alot of reading on the apex bootloader... Feb 04 04:50:09 seems like it may be the one to sue Feb 04 04:52:25 destinal-home & cryptk|work: thx a lot to both!!! i hope i can make it work. would u help me if i need to, im sure i will, honestly... tooooooooooo new at all this still... im falling asleep!! gotta go! ciao! Feb 04 04:52:44 yeah, we can help Feb 04 04:52:50 i like how i always leave mid conversation, it's like an advanced level of ADD Feb 04 04:53:06 acydlord: lol Feb 04 04:53:12 dammit why would they do that? Feb 04 04:53:23 who what? Feb 04 04:53:23 now sprint will probably try to close things down Feb 04 04:53:38 engadget article on mythether Feb 04 04:53:47 bastards Feb 04 04:53:52 ahh, lol Feb 04 04:54:03 http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/03/webos-homebrew-mytether-app-updated-brings-wifi-hotspots-to-ver/ Feb 04 04:54:08 nah, cause unless sprint is in love with apple engadget thinks they are irrational Feb 04 04:54:09 there is the link to it for those interested Feb 04 04:56:23 jacques: I doubt it, there's been tethering forever Feb 04 04:56:58 it might draw negative attention though, that's true Feb 04 04:57:07 if lots of ppl start doing it they'll have to respond Feb 04 05:02:04 I did free tethering ever since I had my Motorola Q (years ago) Feb 04 05:05:36 lol, gotta say I'm glad commenting is disabled @ engadget Feb 04 05:06:01 a lot of people have been doing it for a long time, i dont know a single palm user or winmo user that didnt have a non-approved tethering app Feb 04 05:08:42 JayCanuck: me too Feb 04 05:09:03 don't wanna give aonic more unneeded press, lol Feb 04 05:09:10 all those paid shills gotta post somewhere else for a while Feb 04 05:09:22 lol, true Feb 04 05:09:32 they can go to gizmodo :p Feb 04 05:14:27 or digg Feb 04 05:16:18 My friend said sprint knew a lot about the hacked cab files that enabled winmo devices to do tethering and that they realised it would cost more to clean up a 1% of the user-base issue so to speak Feb 04 05:16:23 back when we talkeda bout these kinds of things years ago Feb 04 05:16:29 so *shrug* Feb 04 05:16:37 However we don't talk about tethering in here still ? Feb 04 05:17:55 I think we mostly try to avoid talking about (spending time supporting) mytether Feb 04 05:19:27 the general discussion of an idea is fine I would think Feb 04 05:19:37 supporting non-free software is not Feb 04 05:26:19 man I love fixing other peoples mistakes... Feb 04 05:26:23 have I ever told you guys that? Feb 04 05:27:20 cool, I got plenty of work you can do for me ;) Feb 04 05:29:24 dig Feb 04 05:29:28 cryptk|work: Palm made the mistake of not giving us an SNES emulator. mind fixing that? :p Feb 04 05:30:27 On the subject of palm mistakes, they really should have just given everyone a touchstone/nice back Feb 04 05:30:41 I can't believe I waited till touchstones were on clearance to get one Feb 04 05:30:54 the back solved immediately all the flimsy noise making that stock one did that annoyed my OCD ears Feb 04 05:31:31 yeah I really like the touchstone back Feb 04 05:32:30 it snaps onto the phone nicely (no extraneous pressing to get it on snug). It makes the phone feel sturdier even though it's just as flimsy as the other backing ( I don't know how ? ) Feb 04 05:33:02 when I press aroudn the bezel of the keyboard it doesn't click and make unwanted noises Feb 04 05:33:25 psykoz: yeah, second that. the touchstone back is full of win Feb 04 05:33:26 I like the soft touch Feb 04 05:33:42 jacques, the soft touch reminds me of my razer mamba Feb 04 05:33:48 with stock back phone always felt like it was going to slip out of my hand Feb 04 05:34:01 destinal-home, yeah Feb 04 05:34:25 destinal-home, I can't believe I just didn't pay $50 out the door on precentral when it first came out. Though I am clearly not upset dell put it on clearance Feb 04 05:35:05 psykoz: I had a hookup for $30 for a kit several months back Feb 04 05:35:06 :) Feb 04 05:35:25 <-- jealous Feb 04 05:35:29 I've had my pre since day one ;) Feb 04 05:35:44 psykoz: I think I still want to buy three more touchstones though Feb 04 05:35:57 not still on clearance, are they :( Feb 04 05:35:58 can you run the touchstone off a computer usb port? Feb 04 05:36:03 no more clearance Feb 04 05:36:19 psykoz: only if your PC can deliver a full 1000ma Feb 04 05:36:23 few can Feb 04 05:36:25 psykoz: no Feb 04 05:36:30 destinal-home, mine probably doesn't then Feb 04 05:36:36 OK destinal-home's answer is better Feb 04 05:36:38 I tried it out and it didn't like it, but worked immediately off the wall adapter Feb 04 05:37:03 500mA is the spec Feb 04 05:37:12 jacques: well, the old spec anyway Feb 04 05:37:22 which 99% of PC's use Feb 04 05:37:27 I got my touchstone when bestbuy had them on sale for $42 Feb 04 05:37:36 destinal-home: are you talking about usb 3.0 ? Feb 04 05:37:46 jacques, http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Mamba-Wireless-Gaming-Laser/dp/B001WAKR3W this computer mouse has the same soft touch as the touchstone back Feb 04 05:37:49 it really is ftw Feb 04 05:37:54 jacques: nah, there were some high power ports that started showing up on PC's lately that use the new charging spec Feb 04 05:38:25 wow, that's a serious mouse Feb 04 05:38:43 destinal-home: is that related to the "always on" ports? Feb 04 05:39:21 jacques: I know I'm not imagining this, they had like a lightning bolt by the ports that could do it, but I'm trying to find it Feb 04 05:40:07 recently I have seen laptops with yellow ports which supply power even when the machine is "off" (tho it may still need to be plugged in) Feb 04 05:42:16 psykoz: generally jacques is right though, I've never actually seen in person the PC with more than 500ma available on a usb port Feb 04 05:42:32 though the new spec documents how one should work Feb 04 05:43:11 and the touchstone needs like ~800ma, may as well just call it 1000ma Feb 04 05:43:24 I have personally seen many PCs and laptops which cannot even supply 500mA tho :-( Feb 04 05:43:24 zsoc|bed: if something can build with WIDK, we can make it build on the autobuilder Feb 04 05:43:41 I'm looking at you late 2007 24" iMac Feb 04 05:44:32 destinal-home: freetether will never outcompete mytether, cause the author doesn't care if people use it or not Feb 04 05:45:15 a mytether which uses Palm services and doesn't use ipkg without -o is probably not that bad, if they only fessed up to the payment situation Feb 04 05:45:28 but to quote a recent US TV commercial "free is always better" Feb 04 05:46:12 cryptk|work: the apex author did a special version for the nslu2, so he's open to custom ports Feb 04 05:46:50 apex? Feb 04 05:47:51 jacques: yeah, cryptk|work is considering doing a chain bootloader for the Pre Feb 04 05:49:01 so far so good Feb 04 05:49:11 apex sounds familiar Feb 04 05:49:39 destinal-home: I have a USB port on my computer that delivers 1000mA Feb 04 05:49:52 but I made it myself for an integrated touchstone that I am building Feb 04 05:49:56 I remember we chained RAM redboot from ROM/RAM redboot on the nas100d Feb 04 05:50:03 I am moulding a touchstone into the top of my case Feb 04 05:50:21 jacques: slugos and debian use apex on the slug Feb 04 05:50:37 cryptk|work: I remember seeing a computer that had a real 1000ma charging-spec-adaptive port on it, but it may have been some once in a lifetime thing, or a vivid daydream? ;) Feb 04 05:50:40 I started out creating it by modding an old mobo to deliver the 1000mA over one of the USB ports, but then I thought of an even easier way Feb 04 05:50:53 rwhitby: oh? why? ppl afraid of flashing u-boot ? Feb 04 05:51:28 jacques: we needed apex to be able to put a 16 byte hole in the middle of the kernel Feb 04 05:51:32 the way it works in my desktop has a nifty little circuit board that I use to pull the 100mA right off the power supply Feb 04 05:51:44 s/100/1000/ Feb 04 05:51:46 cryptk|work meant: the way it works in my desktop has a nifty little circuit board that I use to pull the 1000mA right off the power supply Feb 04 05:51:46 rwhitby: that sounds very strange Feb 04 05:52:03 rwhitby: you lost me there Feb 04 05:52:16 sigh, slug2 still not released Feb 04 05:52:18 to the touchstone it seems exactly like it is plugged into the wall... (for the most part) Feb 04 05:52:51 now I jsut need to finish moulding the trouchstone into the top of the case and it will be done, but it already works plugging the touchstone into that port Feb 04 05:54:19 rwhitby: I may have to get in contact wtih the apex guy then... Feb 04 05:54:26 I wonder if they have a channel on freenode... Feb 04 05:55:05 apex is open source tho ? Feb 04 05:55:15 rwhitby: why a hole in the middle of the kernel, anyway? Feb 04 05:57:33 jacques: I believe so Feb 04 05:58:35 you compile it yourself, so I would think so... I need to find out what license it uses Feb 04 06:00:28 u-boot may work also... Feb 04 06:01:58 cryptk|work: I like u-boot and have worked with it before, but they didn't used to have much support for chain-loading it Feb 04 06:02:11 u-boot would be my preference tho Feb 04 06:02:14 yeah, it is just an option to look into... Feb 04 06:05:19 rwhitby: are we currently packaging any libs for /usr/local ? Feb 04 06:05:22 doesnt look like there is anyone in #elinux or #u-boot atm... Feb 04 06:05:30 ca't find a channel for apex... Feb 04 06:05:38 s/ca't/can't/ Feb 04 06:05:39 cryptk|work meant: can't find a channel for apex... Feb 04 06:07:49 I see they still have this FAQ up: http://www.denx.de/wiki/view/DULG/CanUBootBeConfiguredSuchThatItCanBeStartedInRAM Feb 04 06:07:58 jacques: no, not yet Feb 04 06:08:23 jacques: last I checked, u-boot would not support a chaining configuration Feb 04 06:09:13 rwhitby: no reason it can't if it's properly modified :-D Feb 04 06:09:31 jacques: yeah, but the author was hostile to that when I asked Feb 04 06:09:35 rwhitby: are there any blockers to packaging up libs for /usr/local ? Feb 04 06:09:44 rwhitby: the author is hostile. Feb 04 06:10:10 not hostile, but not willing to answer any questions about such a configuration, nor allow discussion of such on official lists Feb 04 06:10:26 if the apex author is friendly and the license is acceptable, it may be a better option Feb 04 06:10:45 jacques: I can't see any blockers for libs - just make them depend on widk Feb 04 06:10:54 (which sets up the bind mount) Feb 04 06:11:19 so apex it is then... Feb 04 06:11:27 wolfgand denk is notorious for being ... not nice Feb 04 06:11:56 and rigid Feb 04 06:12:38 he tried to change his act a little a couple of years ago - I haven't needed to do any u-boot development recently so I don't know if it took Feb 04 06:13:53 he's a person who would be against chain-loading simply because "you shouldn't need to do that if the main bootloader is u-boot" Feb 04 06:14:26 and if you are using hardware with a proprietary bootloader and aren't willing/able to port u-boot as the main bootloader, too bad Feb 04 06:15:04 jacques: yeah, that's exactly the response I got when enquiring about it for the slug chain booting Feb 04 06:15:46 the sense was "how dare you keep a proprietary vendor bootloader ahead of u-boot", even if aunt minnie doesn't even know what a bootloader is. Feb 04 06:16:04 yeah, all too familiar :-( Feb 04 06:17:32 * rwhitby bbl Feb 04 06:19:56 just from hearing you guys talk about him... I think I am going to avoid u-boot Feb 04 06:20:36 I wish there was a channel for apex ehre on freenode Feb 04 06:21:14 there is a debian arm port... Feb 04 06:22:17 in theory... if I can get some other flavor of linux running, and interface with the phone radio so we can still make/recieve calls... then we could run/port anything taht we have the source code for onto the pre... Feb 04 06:23:54 cryptk|work: yeah, that would be sweet Feb 04 06:24:38 I eventually want to make either a full replacement bootloader or modify bootie to make it so I can call chainboot by holding a button during power-on Feb 04 06:24:52 just like vol up go's to recovery Feb 04 06:25:03 make vol down do chainboot... Feb 04 06:25:24 but that is all going to rely on my buddies schedule... I know a little ARM ASM... but he is damn near fluent Feb 04 06:25:51 I come up with the good ideas, and I can troubleshoot like a mofo... but I don't trust my own code... Feb 04 06:26:14 PXE boot via wifi >.> Feb 04 06:26:17 to make a working main bootloader you need intimate knowledge of the hardware or to completely reverse engineer the stock bootloader Feb 04 06:27:21 we would just me making a small modification to the stock bootloader Feb 04 06:27:35 if you interface with bootie, you can tell it to chainboot a seperate bootloader Feb 04 06:27:42 it already has that functionality Feb 04 06:28:01 I just want to make it do that automatically if you hold a certain key Feb 04 06:28:29 I wonder how accurate the emulator is... does it have bootie? Feb 04 06:28:37 can you simulate a recovery mode on it? Feb 04 06:28:53 and if so... is that the same bootie that is on the phone... Feb 04 06:29:03 I doubt it, but it would be nice, lol Feb 04 06:29:13 cryptk|work: ah OK a minor mod like that should be doable Feb 04 06:29:26 yeah Feb 04 06:29:27 at this level, emulator is useless Feb 04 06:29:36 I am by no means trying to rewrite the whole bootie... Feb 04 06:29:47 it's not emulating the ARM proc or anything like that Feb 04 06:29:51 just want to make a keypress force the chainboot function that it already has Feb 04 06:30:28 make a touch screen grub menu and chainboot that unconditionally :P Feb 04 06:30:45 I don't know if we will be able to make it touch Feb 04 06:30:54 and I don't know how well grub plays on arm... Feb 04 06:31:13 haven't looked into grub tbh Feb 04 06:31:22 looking for something very lightweight.... Feb 04 06:32:16 god I hate DRA... and Active Directory... and Windows in general... Feb 04 06:32:35 bootloaders tend to support specific archs - AFAIK grub is x68 only Feb 04 06:32:36 windows sysadmin jobs suck... Feb 04 06:32:48 x68? that is a new one... lol Feb 04 06:33:01 s/68/86/ Feb 04 06:33:01 jacques meant: bootloaders tend to support specific archs - AFAIK grub is x86 only Feb 04 06:33:10 jacques: but I get what you mean, it is because the initial parts need to be written in native ASM Feb 04 06:33:51 it's really even more specific - bootloaders support specific chips Feb 04 06:34:13 for example, there is no "arm bootloader" Feb 04 06:34:15 well yes, I was simplifying it a bit Feb 04 06:34:25 me too Feb 04 06:35:06 but it is easier to port a bootloader from one ARM chip to another ARM chip versus say... from an x86 chip to an arm chip which would require pretty much a full re-write Feb 04 06:35:46 true Feb 04 06:36:14 hence me looking for a bootloader already made for ARM Feb 04 06:36:17 while you're at it Feb 04 06:36:20 can your port zfs to my Pre Feb 04 06:36:31 It's only 80,000 lines of code Feb 04 06:36:50 hahaha Feb 04 06:36:52 I bet VBA is more than that ;> Feb 04 06:36:59 I told ya, I only know a little ARM ASM Feb 04 06:37:13 * psykoz shrugs Feb 04 06:37:22 I am going to be heavily relying on a friend or two to make this work Feb 04 06:37:34 think of me as a project manager... or a foreman... Feb 04 06:38:02 you know... the guy who watches everyone else do the work... makes sure they do the work... gets them what they need to do the work... and takes all the credit, lol Feb 04 06:38:08 well Feb 04 06:39:16 I did x86 assembler and z80 asm when I was 12-ish. So granted I didn't do much more than write some basic tetris clones or sound card related stuff like mod players etc. The assembler wasn't so much the problem as was just needing good references on interrupts for different hardware Feb 04 06:40:02 I don't even know if you deal with stuff lik ethat anymore these days, outputting and inputting from ports, invoking interrupts, etc Feb 04 06:40:38 i still use assembly some times Feb 04 06:41:09 argh I need a scratchbox2 expert Feb 04 06:42:21 jacques: no expert, but what's the issue? that way lurkers might chime in :) Feb 04 06:42:58 dtzWill: buddy! Feb 04 06:43:11 jacques: :) Feb 04 06:43:54 dtzWill: I have been using the cs2009q3 toolchain with sb2, but now I need to use the 2007q3 toolchain - any way I can have both setup and easily switch between them? Feb 04 06:44:06 jacques: sure, i can help with that :D Feb 04 06:44:13 or do I have to configer one, then the other, ad infinitum Feb 04 06:44:17 jacques: i switch between 3 of them all the time Feb 04 06:44:29 jacques: presently i just re-do the sb2-init, yeah Feb 04 06:44:41 jacques: haven't been motivated to find a better solution Feb 04 06:44:52 yeah I would prefer to not have to do that, but if you do it all the time you might have some methods to make it less painful Feb 04 06:45:01 why is active directory so slow... Feb 04 06:45:05 like a script or something Feb 04 06:45:18 of wait... that is ebcause this active directory has over 60,000 users... Feb 04 06:45:47 jacques: nah, cd to libc of the toolchain i want, control-r sb2-i *verify visually* enter, heh Feb 04 06:45:48 dtzWill: cs2009q3 is sweet, but one little problem - it has glibc newer than 2.5 Feb 04 06:45:55 jacques: exactly Feb 04 06:46:13 jacques: but i use it to build vba since i can get away with it, and the code runs noticeably faster with 2009q3 Feb 04 06:46:41 yep, my glues-demos got niticeably faster with it too Feb 04 06:46:43 jacques: but i mean sb2 reads its config from somewhere, i'm sure there's a better way Feb 04 06:46:57 well, one went from like 80 to 90 fps Feb 04 06:47:04 the other from 35 to 40 Feb 04 06:47:14 wow Feb 04 06:47:41 jacques: I think they're going to be building everything with 2009q3 going forward so that should eliminate the problem, right? Feb 04 06:47:46 also, the binutils in 2007q3 is buggy when it comes to some NEON registers Feb 04 06:47:59 jacques: they = palm Feb 04 06:48:01 destinal-home: where did you hear that? Feb 04 06:48:19 I think that would be a win Feb 04 06:48:21 jacques: yeah i haven't been able to get nice neon support. didn't look into it, maybe that was it. Feb 04 06:48:22 jacques: I think geist mentioned it at some point Feb 04 06:48:51 destinal-home: and yes, that would eliminate the problem I am having right now Feb 04 06:48:55 dtzWill: anything new with vba? :p Feb 04 06:49:11 which is every once in a while, something uses glibc functions newer than 2.4 Feb 04 06:49:46 for example, one lib is requiring 2.7 because it was built with a toolchain with at least 2.7 Feb 04 06:50:33 VincentLaw: nope :/. i have a few updates i'm sitting on but nothing earthbreaking, and iirc it's all in git Feb 04 06:50:45 lawl k, just curious Feb 04 06:50:47 dtzWill: I was building one lib, which had lots of NEON specific assembly, and cs2007q3 would not build it - kept complaining about undefined registers - cs2009q3 built it fine Feb 04 06:50:53 * VincentLaw heads to bed Feb 04 06:51:51 jacques: interesting, i didn't try cs2009q3 when i built it--iirc i ended up with weird undefined reference errors... ending up disabling neon support :/ Feb 04 06:51:52 dtzWill: so if I just do the sb2-init with the root dir of the toolchain, that's all I need ? Feb 04 06:52:03 jacques: the libc directory, yep Feb 04 06:52:07 dtzWill: I would definitely try again Feb 04 06:52:18 jacques: errr possibly adjust your path to have the proper toolchain on it Feb 04 06:52:33 jacques: so now that you're having me explain it it's not the best heeh Feb 04 06:54:38 dtzWill: you could always write a shell script to swap them... Feb 04 06:54:43 :-) Feb 04 06:55:33 cryptk|work: lol of course. like i said before I haven't felt motivated. takes ~10 seconds to patch zshrc, and launch the new sb2-init hehe. Feb 04 06:55:42 cryptk|work: finger memory is my shell script for now :) Feb 04 06:55:53 lol Feb 04 06:58:05 ~seen dBsooner Feb 04 06:58:07 dbsooner is currently on #webos-internals (20h 40m 28s) #webos-watercooler (20h 40m 28s). Has said a total of 19 messages. Is idling for 7h 34m 16s, last said: 'rwhitby: I want my way to pw protect pictures first.'. Feb 04 06:58:35 ~seen dtzWill Feb 04 06:58:36 dtzwill is currently on #webos-internals (1h 21m 15s). Has said a total of 20 messages. Is idling for 0s, last said: '~seen dtzWill'. Feb 04 06:58:40 haha Feb 04 06:58:48 lo Feb 04 06:58:52 so sb2-init failed on me Feb 04 06:58:52 llol Feb 04 06:59:05 I do it so infrequently that I don't remember if I have seen this before Feb 04 06:59:20 jacques: how so? and you were in toolchain/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc or whatever? Feb 04 07:00:01 dBsooner: Any plans on the timframe to push the patch updates I send you? I only ask to be able to test them nearby. For the case that something is nor working as expected. I'm back on the broken US once right now to be able tzo test the normal upodate . Feb 04 07:01:51 dtzWill: http://webos.pastebin.com/m39246584 Feb 04 07:02:05 I don't understand what dir I am supposed to be in Feb 04 07:02:31 oh OK I see what you were saying about dir Feb 04 07:02:46 trying in that dir and it's working much better duh Feb 04 07:03:00 would that be a fail fix? Feb 04 07:03:01 I need to put that in my notes Feb 04 07:03:43 I want to write a book now called "The Encyclopedia of Fail (And possible solutions)" Feb 04 07:04:26 Just be a druid? Feb 04 07:04:46 http://www.cad-comic.com/sillies/ Feb 04 07:05:06 jacques: glad it's resolved :) Feb 04 07:05:08 And then change your character class ;) Feb 04 07:09:39 psykoz: ?? Feb 04 07:09:58 jacques: so, I think I'm using PluginTable incorrectly. do you know what kind of symbol generates " D " in nm? I was trying to use it like an exported function ( which nm usually seems to show as " T " ) Feb 04 07:10:39 the man page says Data object as opposed to Text symbol, but I'm not familiar with what is one vs the other Feb 04 07:10:57 destinal-home: hmm, neither am I Feb 04 07:11:32 objdump shows it as: 00008794 g O .data 00000018 PluginTable Feb 04 07:11:48 which probably isn't much help right now :-) Feb 04 07:11:52 jacques: and how does one read that, I wonder? :P Feb 04 07:12:26 let me check objdump man for O Feb 04 07:13:31 hmm not there Feb 04 07:14:01 destinal-home: do you think it might be a global symbol - the actual table instead of a function Feb 04 07:14:13 jacques: sounds right to me Feb 04 07:14:42 man do I hate gnu and their info files agenda Feb 04 07:14:51 they are taking everything out of the man pages Feb 04 07:15:38 jacques: aso, there's a lot of F *UND* with the function name I actually care about. I assume not local and not global (neither "l" nor "g") Feb 04 07:16:09 this is all the HidPluginGeneric* Feb 04 07:16:24 so I'm guessing they're in that table, but not sure how to read it Feb 04 07:16:57 destinal-home: do a objdump -D on it - I *think* it's telling me that PluginTable is an array with six entries - addresses (pointers) Feb 04 07:17:44 destinal-home: the first entry in the table matches up with the address of GetEventCallback Feb 04 07:18:18 second is Init Feb 04 07:18:33 third is Exit Feb 04 07:18:44 fourth is Suspend Feb 04 07:19:01 fifth is Resume Feb 04 07:19:12 sixth is Poll Feb 04 07:20:25 jacques: excellent, so all I should need to do is define a struct of six pointers and we should have our functions Feb 04 07:20:28 so I am basically unable to locate any way to contact the creator of apex... Feb 04 07:20:44 I was hoping for an IRC channel, but looks lik he doesn't have one Feb 04 07:21:22 actually, looks like #apex does exist Feb 04 07:21:33 destinal-home: well you probably bave to pass the address of that struct to hidd ... ? Feb 04 07:21:34 and it is for the bootloader... but I am the only one in it... Feb 04 07:21:44 me and ChanServ, lol Feb 04 07:21:56 destinal-home: but you probably already know that :-D Feb 04 07:22:28 destinal-home: do we know the prototypes for those functions ? Feb 04 07:22:32 jacques: well it depends. in this case I'm trying to make a simple wrapper for the plugins Feb 04 07:22:40 as a test harness Feb 04 07:23:01 oh right Feb 04 07:23:56 so I dload, dlsym to get the PluginTable, and then I can call functions for each. the problem is of course we'll have to figure out what each one wants for parameters as well Feb 04 07:24:00 and what values returns Feb 04 07:24:35 destinal-home: what are you working on? Feb 04 07:24:50 WIDK stuff? Feb 04 07:24:55 cryptk|work: reverse engineering palm hidd plugins so we can make our own Feb 04 07:25:05 ahh, very nice Feb 04 07:25:40 unfortunately I have to get to bed. sleep sucks Feb 04 07:25:52 or, the need to sleep does anyway :) Feb 04 07:25:57 so I was thinking that my first target for dual boot should possibly be even simpler than android... Feb 04 07:26:15 maybe something like a kernel with busybox (and the few other required items) Feb 04 07:26:16 cryptk|work: why don't you just try booting two different kernels from two different versions of webos :) Feb 04 07:26:23 destinal-home: heh I hear you on the sleep thing, I have about 1.5 more hours before I need to sleep too Feb 04 07:26:25 destinal-home: good idea, lol Feb 04 07:26:29 that would be the easiest... Feb 04 07:30:16 bbiab, lunch time Feb 04 07:31:36 jacques: I should have installed IDA to begin with :) Feb 04 07:31:40 .data:00001768 PluginTable dd offset GetEventCallback, offset Init, offset Exit, offset Suspend Feb 04 07:31:40 .data:00001768 dd offset Resume, offset Poll Feb 04 07:32:44 mmmm, ida Feb 04 07:34:49 geist: yeah, much more readable and clickably linked :) Feb 04 07:35:14 yeah, we have a copy of IDA at work, it's so much fun Feb 04 07:35:57 destinal-home: what's IDA ??? I want it! Feb 04 07:36:17 or is it commercial ? Feb 04 07:36:34 howdy geist Feb 04 07:36:36 most annoying part is it's one of those amazing tools that forces you to keep windows around Feb 04 07:36:37 om nom ida. used the demo a bunch :P Feb 04 07:36:49 jacques: interactive dissassembler. Feb 04 07:37:10 have you run it on bootie yet? Feb 04 07:37:12 ok it's starting to sound familiar - from when I was trying to find decompilers for MIPS I kept finding ARM ones :-) Feb 04 07:37:13 geist: IIRC there's a linux version but it's either outdated or just really not a good GUI Feb 04 07:37:53 anyone know how to get X server to start without a keyboard ? Feb 04 07:38:20 jacques: it's commerical -- there's a demo but it's limited to x86 binaries I believe. fortunately many of the hidd plugins exist on the x86 build Feb 04 07:39:10 jacques: whatcha up to? :D Feb 04 07:39:33 geist: I'm very novice at reversing, but may as well practice .. Feb 04 07:39:53 dtzWill: trying to get Xsdl to start on the Pre Feb 04 07:40:12 aww, it's just fun when folks hack on your stuff Feb 04 07:40:13 dtzWill: it keeps complaining about keyboard stuff and that's a fatal error Feb 04 07:40:18 geist: and no, haven't run it on bootie yet :) Feb 04 07:40:20 I'll get there Feb 04 07:40:25 jacques: awwww. i'm still building x and related components. take it you have a rather slimmed down version? Feb 04 07:40:36 jacques: or maybe you just beasted my efforts, heh Feb 04 07:40:49 dtzWill: I built only what Xsdl needed Feb 04 07:41:02 which so far is about 20 packages Feb 04 07:41:03 destinal-home: so I'm going to write ESE - the Emergency Service Enabler Feb 04 07:41:13 mostly protos but still Feb 04 07:41:16 haha i'm on ~68 and counting haha Feb 04 07:41:18 x.x Feb 04 07:41:28 maybe they'll be useful eventually anyway :) Feb 04 07:41:29 rwhitby: oh? sounds interesting.. Feb 04 07:41:35 destinal-home: basically, it will just run all the postinst files in /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info Feb 04 07:41:36 dtzWill: that might be ... more than are needed :-D Feb 04 07:41:45 jacques: well i want a functional x ;) Feb 04 07:42:17 rwhitby: ah. I guess we're lucky in that we don't have any postinsts that hurt anything if run twice. but that's not to say that we never will I suppose Feb 04 07:42:20 destinal-home: so after a doctor, you install preware, and then install this single package to enable all the other homebrew that was disabled by running the doctor on your phone Feb 04 07:42:29 dtzWill: I am just trying to find out if Xsdl is worth further effort - so I just wanted to see it display Xclock Feb 04 07:42:49 dtzWill: I am pretty sure input will be a problem as it is on my laptop version Feb 04 07:43:01 destinal-home: since a package upgrade doesn't do a prerm before a postinst, then postinst's have to be idempotent Feb 04 07:43:13 rwhitby: oh right, forgot about that Feb 04 07:43:37 jacques: you mean i don't have to build drm?!! :P Feb 04 07:44:09 dtzWill: I amso disabled just about every option I could in Xsdl Feb 04 07:44:21 jacques: alright well keep me posted. can you not just throw some dummy driver in there? Feb 04 07:44:27 destinal-home: I just need to check with egaudet about what effect it will have on installed patches Feb 04 07:44:33 damn, this glibc 2.7 thing is really coming back to haunt me now Feb 04 07:44:45 jacques: fortunately in disassembling this, only geteventcallback and init have any args Feb 04 07:44:57 jacques: Feb 04 07:45:02 err sorry Feb 04 07:45:07 jacques: try the '-kb' option Feb 04 07:45:17 jacques: that's what xorg.conf's man page suggests Feb 04 07:45:20 dtzWill: in theory, but I haven't been able to find documentation for the -keybd option Feb 04 07:45:28 both arg_0= dword ptr 8 Feb 04 07:45:42 Unrecognized option: -kb Feb 04 07:46:03 jacques: bummer. well my 'X' respects that, so i guess xsdl is doing somethig goofy Feb 04 07:46:13 jacques: oh xsdl is part of kdrive right? and as such everythihg is compile time? Feb 04 07:46:32 dtzWill: just about everything yeah Feb 04 07:46:34 jacques: aka no xorg.conf, etc. so is there some #define or the like for it? include/kdriver-config.h or w/e ? Feb 04 07:46:37 installed patches Feb 04 07:46:41 jacques: (i haven't checked) Feb 04 07:46:50 jacques: and If I'm right, only GetEventCallback returns anything Feb 04 07:47:16 rwhitby, why run ESE? Feb 04 07:47:23 err make Feb 04 07:47:32 egaudet: to re-enable services Feb 04 07:47:41 and optware stuff Feb 04 07:47:44 dtzWill: http://webos.pastebin.com/m65614366 Feb 04 07:47:51 Make it part of ipkgservice (too) Feb 04 07:47:54 basically anything that put stuff in rootfs and it got clobbered by doctoring Feb 04 07:48:12 anyway, must sleep now (alas) Feb 04 07:48:19 good stuff though Feb 04 07:48:23 night all Feb 04 07:48:26 dtzWill: and the run attempt: http://webos.pastebin.com/m1e788de2 Feb 04 07:48:30 good stuff? Feb 04 07:48:34 what progress did I miss Feb 04 07:48:36 egaudet: read the scrollback Feb 04 07:48:37 egaudet: eventually it should be part of ipkgservice Feb 04 07:48:57 egaudet: I understand the basic structure of hidd plugins (I think) Feb 04 07:49:15 destinal-home: good progress! Feb 04 07:49:17 and fortunately they're very simple to reverse Feb 04 07:49:19 egaudet: but it's easier to test and update the theory as a separate package before putting it in ipkgservice Feb 04 07:49:33 awesome destinal-home :) Feb 04 07:49:42 destinal-home: wiki page? ;-) /me channels rwhitby Feb 04 07:49:53 rwhitby, yup and patches will just error Feb 04 07:49:54 egaudet: will re-running the postinst of an AUPT patch do anything, or is AUPT idempotent? Feb 04 07:50:23 jacques: heh, until morning the scrollback must be the record (but anyone here's welcome to try to build on what I did and write it up) Feb 04 07:50:32 I don't think AUPT is idempotent unfortunately Feb 04 07:50:37 jacques: otherwise I'll check it in the morning Feb 04 07:50:44 I don't know if I fixed that in AUPT, let me check Feb 04 07:51:34 destinal-home: I too need to sleep soon so it probably won't be me :-D (and I am trying to get Xsdl to start) Feb 04 07:51:43 jacques: good luck with that Feb 04 07:51:49 would be cool Feb 04 07:51:56 thanks :-) Feb 04 07:52:01 rwhitby, ooh I think I did put that in after the last time we discussed it :P Feb 04 07:52:18 hmm, now I'm hungry again Feb 04 07:52:56 jacques: kinda goofy that xsdl doesn't use sdl for keyboard :( Feb 04 07:53:09 jacques: more clearly, it's kinda unfortunate Feb 04 07:54:06 jacques: bouncing through the code, looks like -keybd takes a list of comma separated options including XkbRules, XkbModel, ... few others, and 'device' Feb 04 07:54:27 jacques: i don't know enough about the way x handles keyboard devices (mine has always just worked! :)) so I'm not too helpful there Feb 04 07:55:05 rwhitby, yep postinst is idempotent Feb 04 07:55:19 nice Feb 04 07:55:21 dtzWill: me either - it's complaining about /usr/local/bin/xkbcomp and compiling keymaps - I don't know about that Feb 04 07:55:58 yea postinst is safe to run at any point in time Feb 04 07:56:23 will even return success when it's already installed Feb 04 07:58:40 jacques: stupid q perhaps, but does xkbcomp exist and/or did you build it? Feb 04 07:59:38 no it's no there yet Feb 04 08:00:02 oh joy Feb 04 08:00:09 libsdl segving Feb 04 08:00:10 but trying to build it I am running into problems which means I will probably have to rebuild a bunch of suff due to glibc2.7 issues Feb 04 08:00:45 #0 0x35a758c4 in memcpyrot () from /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0 Feb 04 08:00:46 #1 0x35a754f8 in FB_DirectUpdate () from /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0 Feb 04 08:00:46 #2 0x35a5877c in SDL_UpdateRects () from /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0 Feb 04 08:00:46 #3 0x3621ac6c in evas_engine_sdl_output_flush (data=) at evas_engine.c:303 Feb 04 08:10:44 back Feb 04 08:12:20 egaudet: BTW, the virtual keyboard has an error building on the autobuilder Feb 04 08:12:27 OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '../../downloads/add-onscreen-keyboard-1.3.5-0.tar.gz' Feb 04 08:13:31 is it preventing anything? Feb 04 08:17:45 no Feb 04 08:22:14 hey, I just thought of something Feb 04 08:22:31 dtzWill: weren't you saying that in theory you could blit something to the framebuffer? Feb 04 08:22:47 hang on... possibly groundbreaking idea after I smoke... Feb 04 08:24:41 hmm - ESE needs to do the postinsts in depends order Feb 04 08:25:46 egaudet: confirmed that AUPT postinst is idempotent without errors Feb 04 08:33:52 back Feb 04 08:33:57 dtzWill: you there? Feb 04 08:34:47 or anyone that knows SDL stuff Feb 04 08:37:44 Just wanted to pop in and say that you guys are amazing. Thank you so much for all of your hard work! Feb 04 08:38:00 AUPT is a pretty phenomenal achievement. Feb 04 08:39:28 indeed it is, these guys do some amazing things Feb 04 08:42:04 cryptk|work: barely here. just finishing a few things then crashing. what's up? Feb 04 08:45:07 I just had an idea for a different kind of virtual keyboard that may run faster Feb 04 08:45:19 you said it is possible to blit stuff to the main screen right? Feb 04 08:45:24 like, not in a card Feb 04 08:46:11 would it be possible to blit something like a keyboard to the screen? and if so, will the taps on the keyboard go through to the things under them? Feb 04 08:46:44 if it works, it could potentially get rid of some of the lag in bringing up the keyboard (could make it worse for all I know though) Feb 04 08:46:52 cryptk|work: i think you have the wrong person, unfortunately. i wanna say zsoc had the idea of writing to the screen like you're suggestins Feb 04 08:46:56 don't know how that panned out Feb 04 08:47:04 ahh Feb 04 08:47:15 ~seen zsoc Feb 04 08:47:17 zsoc <~zsoc@unaffiliated/zsoc> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 4h 16m 20s ago, saying: 'rwhitby: if I an get something to build on the widk, will it work with the autobuilder? or is it a different env?'. Feb 04 08:47:26 cryptk|work, I want so bad to make an SDL keyboard Feb 04 08:47:38 egaudet: so you have thought about it in the past then? Feb 04 08:47:52 but the problem is it doesn't solve the bringing it up in all text boxes accross all cards Feb 04 08:48:09 haha a left wirc open my accident Feb 04 08:48:13 egaudet: why not? Feb 04 08:48:19 I have an idea/plan to help some of the loading lag for VKB Feb 04 08:48:24 zsoc|bed: did we wake you up? Feb 04 08:48:32 dtzWill: you _literally_ just woke me up. now we're bff Feb 04 08:48:38 I would use VKB if it werent for the loading lag Feb 04 08:48:41 I'm working on a VKB official app cat right now, and at least once it's up the thing flies, landscape shift/func swaps no lag Feb 04 08:49:03 how long does it take it to come up though Feb 04 08:49:13 and is it SDK or PDK? Feb 04 08:49:28 that's it, for waht I'm doing now it's part of the app so it's up when the app is up Feb 04 08:49:46 I am going to adjust the patch version so that it loads whiel the app is coming up Feb 04 08:50:02 zsoc|bed: sorry! :( Feb 04 08:50:08 It's going to be pretty instantaneous to hide/show it after that Feb 04 08:50:58 and with the hidd progress, the next version of the VKB patch might just be amazing :P Feb 04 08:50:58 ahh, so basically move the keyboard into an app and then have a patch to integrate it in? Feb 04 08:51:01 or am I missing someting Feb 04 08:51:05 missing something Feb 04 08:51:16 damn... Feb 04 08:51:49 There's two things here. One is I'm converting the keyboard to an app style so that it can go into the catalog. Seeing those 4.99/5.99 VKB's in the catalog pushed me over Feb 04 08:51:52 so... would this new VKB that you are working on only work within that app? or for the whole phone? Feb 04 08:52:14 with the app-keyboard version that will be limited to clipboard and launching messaging app with pre-loaded text but not sending it etc... Feb 04 08:52:23 new slogan "just wait, webos-internals will make a free version" Feb 04 08:52:37 I will also integrate the optimizations into the patch and adjust the patch so that either of the following happen: Feb 04 08:52:48 every time an app comes up, the VKB is preloaded Feb 04 08:53:02 or every time the first text box is highlighted in an app the VKB is preloaded Feb 04 08:53:20 ahh, so it is preloaded, but hidden... Feb 04 08:53:25 yea Feb 04 08:53:30 gotcha Feb 04 08:53:56 would it ever unload for any reason? Feb 04 08:54:00 other than a luna restart? Feb 04 08:54:31 it is a per-app basis Feb 04 08:54:47 so if you had 5 apps open it would have 5 preloaded VKBs Feb 04 08:55:00 ouch Feb 04 08:55:09 how much mem does it take? Feb 04 08:55:22 if memory becomes an issue I'll figure it out but I haven't analyzed it yet Feb 04 08:56:37 ahh Feb 04 08:57:00 so, to go back to retro conversations... did we ever find out for sure if smartreflex "works" Feb 04 08:57:06 i don't think it will be an issue though Feb 04 08:57:58 all the images combined are 884K Feb 04 08:58:09 yeah, can't be that bad Feb 04 08:59:02 alright I'm going to bed Feb 04 08:59:59 later Feb 04 09:07:59 hey rwhitby, did you get my final pm from yesterday? Feb 04 09:13:05 retry: dunno Feb 04 09:13:19 oh well basically a reboot of the pre fixed the issues Feb 04 09:13:24 package manager became hidden Feb 04 09:13:27 and preware started to work Feb 04 09:15:04 now I realize there is nothing I really want to install...what's worth installing from preware? Feb 04 09:15:45 and how can you trust the random homebrews? Is there any quality control coming from the preware crew? Feb 04 09:16:33 quake or GBA emulator or something like that Feb 04 09:17:03 retry: quality control is crowd-sourced Feb 04 09:17:28 yeah but the pre hasn't much of a crowd Feb 04 09:17:41 webos-internals performs quality control on the webos-internals and optware feeds only Feb 04 09:18:00 ok that's good to know...I'm only concerned about maliciousness Feb 04 09:18:03 not buggy apps Feb 04 09:18:04 webos-internals perform security checks on webos-patches Feb 04 09:18:26 there could be anything at all in the precentral and prethemer feeds Feb 04 09:18:33 we don't even look at them Feb 04 09:18:35 yeah that is what I suspected Feb 04 09:18:46 hey what's the app catalog in there for? Feb 04 09:18:59 it seems like some but not all of the sprint authorized apps Feb 04 09:19:19 The app catalog is in Preware so all the people around the world who can't get paid apps have something to complain to Palm about. Feb 04 09:19:25 (cause they can see what they are missing) Feb 04 09:19:30 retry: and pretty much everything (all?) that's in our feeds has the same source available, fwiw. Feb 04 09:19:43 retry: not taht you should build everything yourself, but.... well it's another piece Feb 04 09:19:50 dtzWill: only the webos-internals feed, not the precentral feed Feb 04 09:20:03 rwhitby: yes. that's what I meant, sorry. Feb 04 09:20:17 rwhitby: but thanks for making sure it was clear, don't mean to be spreading misinformation :) Feb 04 09:20:53 hey, I have something resembling an Xclock displayed from my workstation to a Xsdl card on my Pre! Feb 04 09:21:13 so optware and the two webos- feeds are under you guys' jurisdiction? Feb 04 09:22:09 retry: anything that has a package id starting with org.webosinternals or mobi.optware Feb 04 09:22:32 im disabling all the other feeds Feb 04 09:22:50 hmm mostly patches Feb 04 09:23:08 dBsooner casts an eye over all patches Feb 04 09:23:38 and the AUPT technology makes sure they are safely reversible Feb 04 09:23:46 i oughta put my 10 second countdown timer patch to the camera app in there Feb 04 09:23:52 although i dont think anybody cares about it really Feb 04 09:24:11 how do I take a screenshow again? Feb 04 09:24:14 screenshot Feb 04 09:25:10 Blob-sym-P ? Feb 04 09:25:24 or install fbcat Feb 04 09:25:35 jacques: NICE Feb 04 09:26:08 dtzWill: something's funky tho - I can't see anything unless I minimize the card Feb 04 09:26:31 jacques: well my xsdl keeps saying no screens found. so i'm doing something wrong :( Feb 04 09:26:46 jacques: once i get it going i'd be happy to dive and tackle that issue. Feb 04 09:27:16 jacques: got any advice for stuck old me? :) Feb 04 09:27:35 ./Xsdl -ac -screen 480x320x24 Feb 04 09:27:52 it says the no screen thing if you don't have the last x24 Feb 04 09:28:00 jacques: so it does. x.x Feb 04 09:28:01 x32 also "works" but x24 seems to work better Feb 04 09:28:14 where do the screenshots go ? Feb 04 09:28:21 jacques: it claims depth is optional :( Feb 04 09:28:23 when I take them Feb 04 09:28:27 jacques: ty though. Feb 04 09:28:27 jacques: /media/internal/screenshots ? Feb 04 09:28:34 jacques: photo album :P Feb 04 09:28:39 jacques: or what he said Feb 04 09:29:37 got it - so where can I put one ? Feb 04 09:29:54 it's really exciting - xclock in the corner of a black card Feb 04 09:30:17 jacques: wiki? :) Feb 04 09:30:25 jacques: it _is_ exciting Feb 04 09:30:40 gj Feb 04 09:30:45 jacques: what's the name of the package which we're going to put in Preware to do this? Feb 04 09:30:47 (it is to me and maybe you) Feb 04 09:31:02 jacques: upload to the wiki, and we'll put it on Application: Feb 04 09:31:11 rwhitby: Xsdl probably Feb 04 09:31:29 jacques: upload to the wiki then Feb 04 09:31:52 hmm - looks like mobi.optware.* does not survive the doctor Feb 04 09:32:06 I'm going to have to rethink optware Feb 04 09:32:31 see you guys later... Feb 04 09:32:38 rwhitby: I'm logged into the wiki - but how do I create a new image page ? Feb 04 09:32:59 or at least repackage it. put the files under apps, and do symlinks in the postinst Feb 04 09:33:12 jacques: upload file, sidebar under toolbox Feb 04 09:33:16 jacques: lower left there's an upload thing Feb 04 09:33:36 jacques: don't suppose your keyboard magic, when you have a second :), is something similarly easy like the x24? :) Feb 04 09:34:06 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:Xsdl_take0.png Feb 04 09:34:13 yep, I'm going to need to repackage all mobi.optware packages Feb 04 09:34:15 jacques: ! :D Feb 04 09:34:40 jacques: I'm tweeting that Feb 04 09:34:48 but like I said, I have to minimize the card like that to get the clock to display Feb 04 09:34:56 minor glitch I'm sire :-) Feb 04 09:35:13 jacques: attributed to 'jacques' or your real name ? Feb 04 09:35:15 now for glxgears :D Feb 04 09:35:53 zsoc|bed: haha :). Feb 04 09:36:11 zsoc|bed: we built without glx, afaik that doesn't work with xsdl anyway Feb 04 09:36:27 dtzWill: what I did for keyboard (after trying to quickly hack/disable it in the source and failing) was install xkbcomp and tar up the /usr/share/X11/xkb/ dir from my desktop and untar it in /var/local/share/X11 on the Pre Feb 04 09:36:45 jacques: or just webos-internals attribution? Feb 04 09:36:48 zsoc|bed: but i was building mesa earlier with opengl-es support, woot Feb 04 09:37:08 more of a joke... but thanks for the info :) Feb 04 09:37:10 dtzWill: heh that's on my list to look at sometime (but not soon) Feb 04 09:37:40 rwhitby: jacques is fine, as a member of webos-internals ? Feb 04 09:38:13 or just webos-internals - or jacques and dtzWill - whichever :-D Feb 04 09:38:20 dtzWill: I think I'm _finally_ going to frame out a method for added filetype support Feb 04 09:38:31 jacques: nice of you :) Feb 04 09:38:35 "X Windows in webOS: http://www.webos-internals.org/images/2/26/Xsdl_take0.png - thx to webos-internals developers jacques and dtzWill" Feb 04 09:38:42 how's that? Feb 04 09:38:57 zsoc|bed: added filetype support? Feb 04 09:39:02 dtzWill: the fact is, I have most/all audio and video filetypes working. and I'm sick of people complaining about it lol Feb 04 09:39:12 rwhitby: perfecto Feb 04 09:39:14 zsoc|bed: oh _NICE_ Feb 04 09:39:18 rwhitby: agreed, perfect Feb 04 09:40:06 3:40am lol Feb 04 09:40:10 shortened to http://bit.ly/x-windows-in-webos Feb 04 09:40:28 dtzWill: xeno-something-whatshisface earlier pushed me to getting GSM wav decoding working for his voicemail downloads before. I forgot how easy it was lol Feb 04 09:40:48 uhm...I have an onfeeds error? Feb 04 09:41:41 zsoc|bed: i hope that was his nick. ;). Feb 04 09:41:44 http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/8626214289 Feb 04 09:41:58 zsoc|bed: yeah, that's awesome. and a nice claim to fame for you+wo-i Feb 04 09:42:04 *WI Feb 04 09:42:12 * dtzWill immediately regrets abbreviating it as "wo-i" haha Feb 04 09:43:45 OK I guess I need to sleep now (work tomorrow) Feb 04 09:43:59 maybe I can call in sick ... naww :-\ Feb 04 09:44:08 jacques: good work soldier Feb 04 09:45:02 the only thing that seems to be working OK is remote display - I am running Xclock on my desktop displaying over usbnet to the xserver on the Pre Feb 04 09:45:09 dtzWill: the thing is, it's _so easy_ to do, but logistically building it in the autobuilding and linking everything to avoid the webOS fs... plus all the external dependencies... it's a decent project Feb 04 09:45:19 and I'm afraid I'm going to lag the autobuilder lol Feb 04 09:45:34 zsoc|bed: autobuilder only builds if it's changed Feb 04 09:45:39 and it loves building. Feb 04 09:46:13 zsoc|bed: errr it doesn't actually rebuild ALL unless it needs to, right? Feb 04 09:46:24 rwhitby: oh my lag made me miss that. damn isp Feb 04 09:46:25 The autobuilder is our own little contribution to global warming. Feb 04 09:46:57 Good thing it's in the US, so it counted against your carbon deficit, not Australia's. Feb 04 09:47:04 rwhitby: oh, I'll keep that in mind :) we're looking at all of gstreamer, a bunch of plugin packs, a bunch of media based libs, and a bunch of backporting patches lol Feb 04 09:47:40 plus I'm going to have to manually write some autotools magic (unless you want to build every plugin indescriminately) Feb 04 09:47:44 if only freakout was here to get the scoop ... Feb 04 09:47:46 zsoc|bed: that can't possibly be bigger than the evas stuff.... :) Feb 04 09:49:32 good thing my wife sleeps heavy Feb 04 09:49:35 hey is there a way to get the terminal to NOT fire up as root but rather a custom user? Feb 04 09:51:29 fire up as... yomomma Feb 04 09:53:10 awesome. raster pulled a me Feb 04 09:55:06 rwhitby: is there a tutorial or en masse example to making something compatible with the autobuilder env? Feb 04 09:56:07 right now everything builds in gentoo, but I'm not sure of all the crossdev magic Feb 04 09:57:35 native xclock \o/ Feb 04 09:57:46 jacques: but i have the same rendering issue you do Feb 04 09:58:27 dtzWill: I tried xsetroot to change background color and it segfaulted :-\ Feb 04 09:58:28 zsoc|bed: if it builds in cross-compile.git or build.git, then it's ready Feb 04 09:58:39 dtzWill: oh wait I think I know what that is Feb 04 09:59:09 ok... so stage it all in the widk for testing? Feb 04 09:59:13 yes lol Feb 04 09:59:25 jacques: hmm? Feb 04 09:59:32 you know how X servers exit when last client exits? well this one segfaults Feb 04 09:59:58 so I just started up a xclock first (left it running) and then did xsetroot solid blue and it tirned blue even minimized Feb 04 10:00:38 jacques: note that you can upload to overwrite that wiki image if you get a better screenshot Feb 04 10:01:39 rwhitby: you can do the packaging magic right? Feb 04 10:01:49 hahahaha xeyes Feb 04 10:02:00 dtzWill: lulz Feb 04 10:03:22 zsoc|bed: if you can get it to build from scratch in a Makefile in cross-compile.git or build.git, I can package it Feb 04 10:03:23 lol I'd forgotten how ugly twm is Feb 04 10:03:33 jacques: haha xD Feb 04 10:05:02 rwhitby: ok.. and the makefile magic going on in cross-compile.git, I guess just copy other examples? Feb 04 10:05:11 yep Feb 04 10:05:21 jacques: fluxbox is super light Feb 04 10:05:37 rwhitby: almost reminds me of an ebuild ;) Feb 04 10:05:54 * zsoc|bed makes an ebuild wrapper for the widk Feb 04 10:09:02 * rwhitby bbl Feb 04 10:09:05 rwhitby: check out the image now Feb 04 10:09:20 oh, much better :-) Feb 04 10:09:34 jacques: very nice Feb 04 10:09:47 OK now I really gotta get some sleep :-D Feb 04 10:09:54 jacques: you've earned it Feb 04 10:10:09 zsoc|bed: yep there are some good light wms available Feb 04 10:10:15 jacques: all the bloggers who read the tweet when they wake up will see the new image Feb 04 10:10:39 sweet. Feb 04 10:10:52 `night all Feb 04 10:10:58 night jacques Feb 04 10:10:59 jacques: 'night :) Feb 04 10:20:36 damn irc crapped out and I didn't notice... Feb 04 10:21:28 arg... now I gotta ghost myself offline... Feb 04 10:53:02 man x11-forwarding opens a lot of doors immediately xD Feb 04 10:53:33 if it wasn't so late here i might try to get synergy working (since presently input doesn't seem to work) Feb 04 11:02:14 what are you trying to do dtzWill? Feb 04 11:02:20 just get X running in a card? Feb 04 11:02:38 cryptk|work: http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/8626214289 Feb 04 11:02:52 cryptk|work: we have x kinda working in a card. i'm trying to make it work better :) Feb 04 11:03:45 gnome? Feb 04 11:03:47 lol Feb 04 11:04:05 cryptk|work: well for example it doesn't render when not minimized, which is silly Feb 04 11:04:23 so it only renders minimized? Feb 04 11:04:24 lol Feb 04 11:04:27 cryptk|work: yes Feb 04 11:04:28 backwards much? Feb 04 11:04:55 bbiab Feb 04 11:05:47 wow kdrive is broken Feb 04 11:05:48 lol Feb 04 11:05:52 i mean i'm tracing pieces ofi t Feb 04 11:05:56 that just go.....nowhere Feb 04 11:06:11 with comments like "These are just going here until I figure out what to do with them" Feb 04 11:06:25 where these==functors for polling for input..... Feb 04 11:07:32 which is weird; i thought kdrive worked for some situations? xephyr, etc.. hm. maybe it handles things differently Feb 04 11:16:29 that is weird Feb 04 11:16:51 bah i think i know what's happening, but my ability to think critically is approaching zero :) Feb 04 11:18:33 haha Feb 04 11:18:40 get some sleep Feb 04 11:20:47 yeah i should Feb 04 11:21:08 i was just hoping to get it rendering properly, and perhaps a firefox screenie or the like Feb 04 11:21:13 but there's always tomorrow :) Feb 04 13:29:16 xenoph0be|work: you know anyone at work with webOS? lol Feb 04 13:29:50 zsocwerkin: do you just stay on WIRC at all times? Feb 04 13:29:55 or do you sleep at work, lol Feb 04 13:30:25 cryptk|work: I had some insomnia (ie: pings) so I slept during downtime Feb 04 13:30:50 x-servers got working a few hours ago, thanks to jacques and dtzwill Feb 04 13:31:09 ahh, so you do just sleep at work... wish I could do that Feb 04 13:31:10 lol Feb 04 13:31:15 anyways, ime to go home Feb 04 13:33:01 sleep at work? no I just don't sleep :( Feb 04 13:38:51 bbl Feb 04 13:56:55 * rwhitby bbt Feb 04 13:57:30 rwhitby: to be pedantic in the officially supported way,its always X or X window system supposedly Feb 04 13:57:53 destinal-pre: yeah, I know. I wanted to flush out the pedants :-) Feb 04 13:57:57 "never X windows" Feb 04 13:58:38 (and X windows system is not twitter friendly) Feb 04 13:59:12 rwhitby: heh, I was never sure why they made such a big deal Feb 04 13:59:52 destinal-pre: I've updated openssh-sftp-server and it's dependencies to make the ESE compatible (i.e. all files stay in cryptofs, and all symlinks in /opt are created by the postinst which is idempotent) Feb 04 14:00:11 tomorrow I will doctor to test Feb 04 14:00:17 cool Feb 04 14:00:33 the idea is that you can doctor, and then just install ESE, and then all your services and patches and optware stuff starts working again. Feb 04 14:01:07 and then once everything is ESE compatible, and ESE has been thoroughly tested, we put it's functionality into ipkgservice. Feb 04 14:01:19 so then you just reinstall preware and everything starts working again Feb 04 14:02:19 eventually we will be able to flag ipkgs which try and install files outside of the cryptofs app dir, except by using a signed postinst Feb 04 14:02:34 which closes the ipkg overwrite another ipkg security vulnerability Feb 04 14:03:22 rwhitby: when you say "the cryptofs app dir" -- do you mean a specific directory for that app, or just the encrypted directory for all apps Feb 04 14:04:09 I guess the former if it closes the hole Feb 04 14:04:21 the specific directory for the app: /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/ Feb 04 14:04:36 that closes two holes Feb 04 14:06:03 updated widk to remove the convenience mount which is a vulnerability too Feb 04 14:06:29 (so the postinst for widk libs has to symlink the libs into /usr/local) Feb 04 14:08:36 rwhitby: I'm thinkinh where postinst is only Feb 04 14:09:19 thinking postinst was only intended to be idempotent right after installing files from ipk Feb 04 14:09:42 destinal-pre: yeah, we need to fix any that aren't always idempotent. Feb 04 14:10:27 so we add another requirement that may not have been intended in ipkg, though it's certainly not a bad one Feb 04 14:10:46 yeah, I can't see any other way to work with the doctor not clearing cryptofs Feb 04 14:11:17 I wonder if we should add a flag to control to avoid stomping on 3rd party postibsts if they exist anywhere Feb 04 14:11:53 destinal-pre: they will be broken anyway in the scenario in which this operation will happen, so it won't matter if they are broken further. Feb 04 14:12:49 and now I really must sleep Feb 04 14:12:51 * rwhitby bbt Feb 04 14:12:56 sure, I can think of poorly designed ones, say that rm something important at destination before copy Feb 04 14:13:13 admittedly that's very unwise Feb 04 14:17:08 hi. any suggestions to wrap apps nicely from the PDK scratchbox, for easy installation on the device? Feb 04 14:17:46 klaus: did you see the article on building doom? Feb 04 14:18:26 it walks through package, install, launch Feb 04 14:18:35 not yet ... Feb 04 14:18:39 in the wiki? Feb 04 14:18:50 yes Feb 04 14:20:05 got it! thanks Feb 04 14:20:26 klaus: you're welcome Feb 04 15:26:56 cryptk: morning Feb 04 15:28:14 morning destinal- Feb 04 15:28:32 reading through the svn log for another project I beta test for Feb 04 15:30:35 I was a bad tester and hadn't updated to the latest revision lately... had alot of logs to read... Feb 04 15:30:49 heh Feb 04 15:31:24 I wonder if my harmony remote can run linux.... Feb 04 15:31:27 lol j/k Feb 04 15:33:44 you should definitely have it run your pre somehow Feb 04 15:34:02 have what run my pre? the remote? Feb 04 15:34:13 it is a harmony 550, IR only Feb 04 15:34:33 sure, get an ir to audio jack dongle Feb 04 15:34:36 :) Feb 04 15:34:56 lol Feb 04 15:36:51 now to see if I can find this elusive apex bootloader guy... Feb 04 15:38:02 I had to call sprint about my Airave... other people in my apartment complex were getting on it... using up my bandwidth... got it locked down now... Feb 04 15:51:16 is airave the femtocell? Feb 04 15:51:16 morning Feb 04 15:51:39 rboatright: morning Feb 04 15:52:06 so, once again I take a day away from irc and the guys do something amazing... Feb 04 15:52:22 x on the pre Feb 04 15:53:08 uh oh ... bbiab Feb 04 15:56:19 damnit Feb 04 15:56:38 and yes, the airave is the femtocell Feb 04 15:56:54 and now my ubuntu is randomly losing USB Feb 04 15:57:03 devices randomly stop responding... Feb 04 15:57:27 unplugging and replugging them doesn't fix it... when it happens it stops picking up new devices... argh... time to troubleshoot Feb 04 16:14:05 I've seen thru my searching, that there's a way to give my notebook network access thru my Pre. Does this violate any rules/regs/ToC, and risks losing any features? Feb 04 16:14:26 Or does it depend on the carrier? Feb 04 16:14:42 BoomerET: i think sprint rules state you have to pay a monthly fee for tethering Feb 04 16:15:01 but as far as losing features i dont think so Feb 04 16:15:23 ive heard of people doing wifi tethering and also i believe bluetooth Feb 04 16:15:32 Ahh, it's called tethering, ok, thanks. Feb 04 16:15:55 I don't even have a notebook, and the one I use for work has EVDO already, just curious. Feb 04 16:16:17 yea my laptop also has a built in EVDO Feb 04 16:16:22 which is why i've never setup tethering Feb 04 16:18:42 I just don't get it, we're paying for unlimited data... Feb 04 16:19:06 It's like the GPS service, um, last I checked my handheld eTrex doesn't cost me a monthly fee. Feb 04 16:20:07 well Feb 04 16:20:09 But I can't complain, I'm paying $30/month for unlimited everything except phone calls. Feb 04 16:20:22 they charge you because you're using the device for something it was never intended for Feb 04 16:20:23 and I don't talk on the phone, I text. Feb 04 16:20:27 and short cutting some of their services Feb 04 16:20:41 with sprint you get free cell to cell Feb 04 16:20:52 that combined with 7-7 nights and weekends most of your calls shoudl be free anyway Feb 04 16:20:54 That's actually quite nice. Feb 04 16:20:54 OT: Sega finally announced sonic 4, in full-2d. woohoooooooo Feb 04 16:21:23 I'm hoping my Pre comes in the mail today. Feb 04 16:21:39 I've been playing with the emulator for the past two days. Feb 04 16:24:07 VincentLaw: new 2d sonic would be sweet Feb 04 16:24:16 i havent been a fan of most of the 2d games that have gone 3d Feb 04 16:24:25 aka sonic, mario, zelda etc Feb 04 16:24:31 I want Commander Keen :) Feb 04 16:24:37 Not 3D, the orig. Feb 04 16:24:40 something about 2d games that are just more "fun" Feb 04 16:24:51 http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/projectneedlemouse/video/6249444?hd=1 HD trailer for Sonic4 FYI Feb 04 16:25:13 it's coming out thus far on XBLA/PSN/WiiWare, with other platforms apparently going to be announced later (crossing fingers for Pre :p) Feb 04 16:26:13 chromium cant play that link :( Feb 04 16:26:24 that would be sweet to get on the pre Feb 04 16:26:39 hi, I'd need some help with the webos-internals PDK Feb 04 16:27:39 its more of a PDE than a PDK ;) Feb 04 16:27:39 PuffTheMagic_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g14mAw-qhmU youtube crap quality for you :p Feb 04 16:27:51 VincentLaw: i can watch it in FF Feb 04 16:28:04 i think Feb 04 16:28:14 I followed the instructions on the wiki, beside scratchbox2 install, I had to install it manually (compiled from source). now when I try the sb2-init command, configure of libtool says that it can't compile with: checking whether the C compiler works... Error: Bad syscall: f0005 Feb 04 16:28:20 Link works fine here. Feb 04 16:28:28 BoomerET: the link is fine Feb 04 16:28:32 Oh, you meant the Chromium browser, sorry. Feb 04 16:28:37 Chromium on linux didnt render it right Feb 04 16:31:00 I used sb2 version 2.0, is that ok or do I have to use an older version? Feb 04 16:33:29 according to the config.log this was the error: Feb 04 16:33:30 configure:2977: ./a.out Feb 04 16:33:30 qemu: unhandled CPU exception 0x2 - aborting Feb 04 16:33:30 R00=ffffffda R01=421b8000 R02=421b7bf8 R03=421b7b78 Feb 04 16:33:30 R04=400a5050 R05=400a5000 R06=00000000 R07=000f0005 Feb 04 16:33:30 R08=00000050 R09=ffff51d0 R10=00000001 R11=4007f134 Feb 04 16:33:30 R12=421b74a0 R13=4007ee38 R14=40091b98 R15=40082fb8 Feb 04 16:33:31 PSR=20000010 --C- A usr32 Feb 04 16:33:31 s00=00000000( 0) s01=00000000( 0) d00=0000000000000000( 0) Feb 04 16:33:32 s02=00000000( 0) s03=00000000( 0) d01=0000000000000000( 0) Feb 04 16:33:32 s04=00000000( 0) s05=00000000( 0) d02=0000000000000000( 0) Feb 04 16:33:33 s06=00000000( 0) s07=00000000( 0) d03=0000000000000000( 0) Feb 04 16:33:33 s08=00000000( 0) s09=00000000( 0) d04=0000000000000000( 0) Feb 04 16:33:34 s10=00000000( 0) s11=00000000( 0) d05=0000000000000000( 0) Feb 04 16:35:09 ouch Feb 04 16:35:19 cpu exception goodness Feb 04 16:35:23 yay qemu Feb 04 16:35:34 so, qemu too old? Feb 04 16:35:39 possibly Feb 04 16:35:49 i didnt read the context of what you said Feb 04 16:37:05 sb2-init doesn't work, it wants to compile libtool but configure dies because it can't execute the compiled test program (a.out), becaus qemu died with that excpetion Feb 04 16:37:37 when installing a game following the doom example i get palm-install: FAILED_IPKG_INSTALL Feb 04 16:37:44 how to debug this? Feb 04 16:39:04 tail the mojo logs, during the install... should show you some details Feb 04 16:39:43 where are they located? Feb 04 16:43:09 Use putty into your Pre or emulator, then they are in /var/log (especially messages and installer.log) Feb 04 16:43:45 what I do is cd to that folder and then " tail installer.log " Feb 04 16:44:12 and then install the app to the pre and watch the scroll for clues... I found a few errs on mine that way Feb 04 16:47:52 I'd tail -f Feb 04 16:48:44 right - what BoomerET said Feb 04 16:48:45 nothing... Feb 04 16:49:05 not a single line is added Feb 04 16:49:08 tail -f installer.log Feb 04 16:49:11 oh :( Feb 04 16:49:23 the palm wan't a reboot Feb 04 16:49:35 the package is in /usr/var... Feb 04 16:49:38 but no icon Feb 04 16:49:50 luna restart to get the icon / refresshes the apps Feb 04 16:49:51 and not listed with plam-install Feb 04 16:50:42 command : luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Feb 04 16:51:13 resets the app names in the Launcher (re-scans them) Feb 04 16:52:22 thx... but its not helping Feb 04 16:53:17 maybe my palm-package/install bin is not up2date Feb 04 16:59:18 ok same error with updated tools Feb 04 17:00:38 for what is qemu-kvm required to use scratchbox2? Feb 04 17:07:33 errrr my phone isn't turning on :( Feb 04 17:07:43 time to learn how to fix these things, to the wiki! :) Feb 04 17:09:44 dtzWill: pull the battery :p Feb 04 17:11:02 VincentLaw: yep, tried twice. bummer. must've done something goofy when playing with x. actually my phone was running and i restarted it--b/c it was acting weird, my alarm went off late (it seemed "stuck", as soon as i unlocked my phone lol) Feb 04 17:11:25 anyway i'm hoping i can not doctor, since i have a fair idea what i did wrong and would rather not reinstall my shit Feb 04 17:11:47 got the doom package manually installed Feb 04 17:11:58 but it does not launch the script Feb 04 17:12:08 instead it displays it... Feb 04 17:12:20 what is the trick here Feb 04 17:29:35 jacques! good work again :) Feb 04 17:30:01 ? Feb 04 17:31:04 VincentLaw: http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/8626214289 Feb 04 17:35:46 oic nice :D Feb 04 17:36:05 does the mouse work? Feb 04 17:36:39 VincentLaw: not sure. it doesn't fully work yet, renders only when minimized as in that picture. Feb 04 17:37:14 VincentLaw: I didn't actually check, and the cursor location in the screenie suggests jacques didn't get it working either Feb 04 17:37:22 most of the input is a bit screwy Feb 04 17:37:26 well Feb 04 17:37:30 the whole thing is right now :) Feb 04 17:38:11 wow that's cool, so we could have matchbox someday :) Feb 04 17:42:17 well anyway that's jacques' picture, he beat me to it. was congratulating him for his work :) Feb 04 17:42:41 dtzWill I take a night off and you guys pull that !!! Feb 04 17:42:44 cONGRATS Feb 04 17:43:49 yeah that's a pretty amazing accomplishment Feb 04 17:43:58 it just shows the flexibility of the OS Feb 04 17:44:49 and the dedication of webos-internals community Feb 04 17:48:58 howdy dtzWill sorry, they apparently rebooted the web proxy here at work (always do at this time) Feb 04 17:49:55 jacques: you rock. Feb 04 17:50:01 yep, input is not working at all yet - but then it's same on Xsdl on laptop Feb 04 17:50:24 xcomp: thanks, but it was just a bunch of package building :-D Feb 04 17:50:49 things will get intersting when we start fixing the rendering and input isues Feb 04 17:52:00 at least the input issue seems to not be webos-specific Feb 04 17:52:33 it might have just bit-rotted and the devs removed Xsdl rather than fix/maintain it Feb 04 17:53:14 (woulda been nice if they had mentioned why, other than "no more elephants") Feb 04 17:55:25 input seems to work find in Xephyr, so maybe that will help Feb 04 17:55:43 (input works fine in Xephyr on my laptop) Feb 04 17:56:09 jacques: i'm not sure that traditional x input stuff will play nice--might have to route through sdl Feb 04 17:56:17 jacques: the rendering thing is strange, though Feb 04 17:56:36 dtzWill: I agree I don't know why Xsdl didn't just use SDL input Feb 04 17:56:57 dtzWill: have you looked into the rendering issue at all? Feb 04 17:57:52 I was thinking maybe some event loop thing? like sdl doesn't know it's supposed to refhresh the screen, but when card is minimized, lunasysmgr is in control Feb 04 17:58:28 jacques: look at sdlTimer, that's processing events. it looks simple and like it would work--and iirc from my late-night debugging it does get called Feb 04 17:58:48 might be related to fact that Xsdl was probably only ever run under X Feb 04 17:59:12 dtzWill: did you #define DEBUG ? I need to do that Feb 04 17:59:23 jacques: for the rendering, i thought maybe it had a bad update policy--but no, it's calling sdl_updaterect appropriately afaict. and as you found out with your blue screen i'm sure--the black screen is not an artifcat of like the root window showing through, it's actually be blanked Feb 04 18:00:03 jacques: i blamed misc extensions (dpms/damage/composite) since they can cause black screens (well they did back when they were less stable/usable on the desktop :)) but no dice Feb 04 18:00:25 jacques: i /did/ but i guess it's routing the output somewhere? didn't follow that since i was looking into something else Feb 04 18:00:28 mine has no DPMS nor composite Feb 04 18:00:43 jacques: built mine complete :P haha Feb 04 18:00:49 damage, I don't think I could config out Feb 04 18:01:22 ./Xsdl ... -extension DAMAGE Feb 04 18:01:39 does that work with kdrive based??? Feb 04 18:01:45 jacques: yes Feb 04 18:01:51 ./Xsdl -extension XKB ????? Feb 04 18:02:04 jacques: try -extension foo and it'll list the run-time disable-able extensions Feb 04 18:02:12 sweet Feb 04 18:02:16 jacques: i managed to bork my phone, investigating now. Feb 04 18:02:35 uh-oh Feb 04 18:02:37 jacques: errr there's probably a better way, but worked for me, after trying -extension COMPOSITE instead of Composite Feb 04 18:03:01 jacques: yeah i missed class today :( my phone was messsed up and alarm didn't go off until i happened to wake up and unlock it Feb 04 18:03:07 jacques: and now it doesn't boot properly :) Feb 04 18:03:19 I am at work, but things are slow right now ... let me setup my dev env :-) Feb 04 18:03:32 dtzWill: that's very coincidental Feb 04 18:03:50 yesterday my phone crashed during the night and I had to pull battery to reboot it Feb 04 18:03:58 today, my alarm simply did not go off Feb 04 18:04:14 yeah my hint should have been "phone offline" on top left lol Feb 04 18:04:23 the crash was before I started messing with X on the device Feb 04 18:04:27 figured it was i crashed too many times, and a reboot would fix it Feb 04 18:04:32 but.... nope. Feb 04 18:04:42 no the palm logo won't pulsate :( Feb 04 18:04:48 og course my uptime before the crash was like 24 days, with dev going on Feb 04 18:05:21 so, guys, you're talking about re-directing input through sdl input, but obviously, there's serious input issues since you don't actually have a mouse button. Feb 04 18:05:28 dtzWill: I had to pull batt, connect to USB while holding volume UP, novaterm into bootie and booted from there Feb 04 18:05:32 have you had any thoughts on that subject? Feb 04 18:06:00 maybe hold gesture area like completion in wirc ? Feb 04 18:06:05 jacques: that's rather what i had in mind--although i was just gonna novaterm from it's current state Feb 04 18:06:19 yo all Feb 04 18:06:21 dtzWill: sure, only use as much force as required :-) Feb 04 18:06:38 Rick_work: well i was thinking a tap/motion movement detection could isolate a "tap" versus movement Feb 04 18:06:38 jacques so, gesture-touch = mouse down? Feb 04 18:06:39 trying to setup a luna-send to send banner messages, but can't find the system service.. Feb 04 18:07:10 Rick_work: or gesture-touch = drag, not sure which would work better Feb 04 18:07:34 RIck_work is this for getting the EGL to work via SDL? (or something like that) Feb 04 18:07:36 jacques: drag is nice. might want right-click in there somewhere too :) Feb 04 18:07:39 gesture-touch = mousedown lets you control drag and tap though. Feb 04 18:07:45 Rick_work: lol what I just said makes no sense Feb 04 18:07:55 CTLAdvance they got X to work on webos under luna last night Feb 04 18:07:55 what service call do i make to get to mojo.Controller.getAppController Feb 04 18:08:05 SWEET Feb 04 18:08:08 drinking coffee now - I should be awake in a few more minutes Feb 04 18:08:43 Rick_work: you are of course correct "gesture-touch = mousedown lets you control drag and tap though" Feb 04 18:08:50 but no inputs. So- touchscreen - mouse movement -- gesture area = mousebutton. then, it just is keymapping. Feb 04 18:09:09 Rick_work: yeah that's a compelling idea. Feb 04 18:09:25 xorg_: I don't believe there is a service to send banner messages Feb 04 18:09:25 jacques ideally a TAP would do both mousedown and mouseup (click) at a location, but that's secondary to gesture area = mousebutton Feb 04 18:09:37 Rick_work: that's what i had in mind Feb 04 18:09:40 egaudet_work xorg_ not that I know of. Feb 04 18:10:03 Jeeeze -- this is such a freakig cool idea. Feb 04 18:10:04 bah i feel worthless. where exactly does novaterm come from on linux? Feb 04 18:10:09 dtzWill: have you looked at how SDL is being initialized? like what modes it's using? IIRC SDl on the Pre doesn't support all modes Feb 04 18:10:16 dtzWill it's part of the sdk Feb 04 18:10:17 yeah, haven't been able to find Feb 04 18:10:31 dtzWill: it's part of the Palm SDK Feb 04 18:10:39 jacques: that's correct; but that would cause it to bail early on with a "we don't support this" message Feb 04 18:10:56 jacques: although i suppose they could not be initializing things properly (not iniitaliazing input? that easy? xD) Feb 04 18:11:00 dtzWill: well, it's in novacom package, with novacomd Feb 04 18:11:12 Rick_work: it's not in the sdk deb Feb 04 18:11:19 jacques: errr ....oh. i thought i checked. Feb 04 18:11:24 dtzWill: yeah frankly I was expecting more complaints from SDL on the Pre about non-supported modes Feb 04 18:11:27 xorg_: notifications/banner messages are Mojo scene based Feb 04 18:11:46 novaterm is just a script which calls novacom Feb 04 18:11:53 yeah, i see that... was looking for a way to get to it through some service call Feb 04 18:11:56 dtzWill it used to be, which sdk are you looking at. Feb 04 18:12:19 makea background app Feb 04 18:12:21 jacques: oh. guess i don't have the script. got working novacom(d) though. Feb 04 18:12:25 jacques oh, that's right, calls novacom in terminal mode. Feb 04 18:12:38 xorg_: it sounds like you need some mojo in your life Feb 04 18:12:42 :[ Feb 04 18:13:01 exec novacom $* -t open tty://0 Feb 04 18:13:03 meant :P Feb 04 18:13:11 :)... i'm just a script kiddie... perl/shell/c... not a javascript guy :) Feb 04 18:13:12 jacques: there we go Feb 04 18:13:14 jacques: tyvm Feb 04 18:13:21 yet Feb 04 18:13:27 now to see how I messed this up :) Feb 04 18:14:12 C is not for script kiddies! :P Feb 04 18:14:35 aging script kiddie that is and 80s phreaker Feb 04 18:14:46 but yeah you are limited to what you can do from scripts Feb 04 18:15:19 if you want to start interacting with the user, you gotta get some mojo Feb 04 18:15:23 love luna-send for scripts... would love to get better messaging both directions to mojo Feb 04 18:15:43 to WHAT mojo though Feb 04 18:16:10 you can't just throw stuff on screen, it has to be a part of the mojo app infrastucture Feb 04 18:18:00 apparently so... Feb 04 18:18:22 you'd probably want to start with Mojo, and then connect it to a C service for your linux needs that mojo doesn't support Feb 04 18:21:44 wow i guess i should just visit the doctor. boots now, claiming "restore required" Feb 04 18:22:20 pfffft Feb 04 18:22:35 self medicate ! Feb 04 18:23:08 egaudet_work: well i wish i knew why it thought it needed things. to the best of my recollection i removed everythin i did last night, as dodgy a claim as that is Feb 04 18:23:19 egaudet_work: err why it thought a restore was required Feb 04 18:23:29 check some md5sums Feb 04 18:23:54 good morning all Feb 04 18:24:07 what kind of message is this that says restore required? Feb 04 18:24:15 curious because I've never seen it Feb 04 18:24:42 egaudet_work: it was a dialog on the bottom. weird thing was rest of my phone looked fine--sprint/wifi, could even play with the top menu Feb 04 18:24:48 although now it's showing first-run app Feb 04 18:24:49 booo Feb 04 18:25:46 ooh Luna is madd at you Feb 04 18:26:08 yeah :(. i'm sorry luna, please take me back Feb 04 18:26:34 i'm sorry i was flirting with X Feb 04 18:26:40 X was just so new and exciting Feb 04 18:26:58 but you've made me realized that i couldn't live without you luna, please come back Feb 04 18:27:07 haha, "x was just so new and exciting" Feb 04 18:27:12 haha :P Feb 04 18:27:37 lol Feb 04 18:29:41 hmm, I disabled all run-time disableable extensions, still black screen at fullscreen, but now I can see the X pointer (couldn't before unless it was over a window, as in the xeyes screenshot) Feb 04 18:30:19 jacques: woo progress :). Feb 04 18:30:30 ./Xsdl -ac -extension MIT-SHM -extension DAMAGE -extension MIT-SHM -extension RANDR -exte nsion RENDER -extension XFIXES -extension XTEST -screen 320x480x24 Feb 04 18:30:47 unfortunately, XKB is not runtime-disableable Feb 04 18:32:11 actually there is one I didn't disable which is in the -extension list: [mi] Generic Events Feb 04 18:33:24 jacques: now that it runs despite warnings, why disable xkb? Feb 04 18:34:21 dtzWill: to remove the need to have xkbcomp and all those mapping files Feb 04 18:34:48 jacques: hmm. okay. you're imaginging they aren't needed at all if we have sdl input then? Feb 04 18:35:10 dtzWill: that's my current thinking :-) Feb 04 18:35:15 also yay phone is back, it's syncing all my junk now Feb 04 18:35:46 if only i had this fixed 3 hours ago i might've woken up in time for class :) Feb 04 18:35:55 :-\ Feb 04 18:36:15 yeah it's inconvenient when the alarms don't go off Feb 04 18:36:36 I was hoping 1.4 would come out before I had to doctor mine again Feb 04 18:38:59 I would also like to config out ipv6 support, but can't find out how Feb 04 18:39:23 jacques: agreed, although i spent zero time on that. Feb 04 18:39:52 so, priorities... Feb 04 18:40:31 mine are; 1) rendering 2) input 3) getting all the packages into cross-compile.git Feb 04 18:40:45 jacques: without a doubt those as mine as well, in the same order :) Feb 04 18:41:14 although my life beckons me, now that my phone is functional Feb 04 18:41:37 egaudet: Not sure if you are around but you asked me to come in here about the problem with nothing (including Preware) connecting to my Pre: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/227969-nothing-connects-my-pre-wosqi-preware-novacom-etc-2.html Feb 04 18:41:48 np, go have a life. someone should :-D Feb 04 18:41:48 jacques: good luck, keep me/this channel posted, hopefully i'll be back later and can chip in Feb 04 18:42:24 (bear in mind I am at work, so progress for the next few hours will probably be slow) Feb 04 18:42:55 jacques: i full expect you to be halfway through step 3 ;) Feb 04 18:43:32 rwhitby will probably argue 3) should be 1) and he might be right, but it's not nearly as much fun as 1) and 2) Feb 04 18:44:13 3) is a lot of effort, so I'd like to know this will work before spending time on that Feb 04 18:44:26 jacques: perhaps. i think there should be some level of usability/functionality before we send it off to clutter everyone's build env Feb 04 18:44:39 jacques: but i suppose that _would_ mean everyone else could take a crack at it more easily Feb 04 18:45:11 jacques: good point, and agreed. rendering is the hardest of the two--since we have the xtest extension WORST CASE we just hijack that to fake x events haha Feb 04 18:45:13 dtzWill: well, there is nonworking/ and "everyone else could take a crack at it more easily" is a valid reason Feb 04 18:45:59 jacques: you and your good points. Feb 04 18:46:24 I think I only ended up building 20 packages, about half were protos (small and easy). the others required varying degrees of creativity to build Feb 04 18:47:12 jacques: yeah. if this gets serious i can throw in the rest i built as useful/needed, but until we can draw to the screen drawing to the screen with composite i think is somethign we can live without xD Feb 04 18:47:56 once we get rendering and input we (and probably others) can go to town on the extensions Feb 04 18:48:17 xinerama with multiple cards, EGL mesa GLX, etc etc lol Feb 04 18:48:52 dynamic orientation with xrandr / accel Feb 04 18:49:24 jacques: :D Feb 04 18:50:09 jacques: mesa does support opengl-es so hopefully (hopefully!) that's not too terrible Feb 04 18:50:28 jacques: XD xinerama with multiple cards. love it Feb 04 18:52:32 panning with pinch zooming... :-) Feb 04 18:53:15 remote audio integration Feb 04 18:54:19 gimpy530: ok so explain the symptoms Feb 04 18:55:08 egaudet_work: Pretty much what it says in the forum, no software will see that my Pre is connected Feb 04 18:55:46 What happens when you load preware Feb 04 18:55:48 egaudet_work: Preware gives "Error: java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused" Feb 04 18:55:55 where does it say that Feb 04 18:57:43 egaudet_work: STDOUT and in the Preware window, I click "Install Preare" and a window comes up with that error and suggestions of how to fix it Feb 04 18:57:55 egaudet_work: Of course the suggestions don't work Feb 04 18:58:20 So you are talking about the Preware installer? Feb 04 18:58:28 egaudet_work: Yes Feb 04 18:58:36 do you have the SDK installed Feb 04 18:58:40 webos SDK Feb 04 18:58:43 egaudet_work: Yes Feb 04 18:58:48 what OS? Feb 04 18:59:00 egaudet_work: Ubuntu 9.10 x64 Feb 04 18:59:12 initctl list |grep palm Feb 04 18:59:48 egaudet_work: nothing Feb 04 19:00:14 Have you installed the novacom package? Feb 04 19:00:52 I have the novacom bin, don't remember how I put it on there Feb 04 19:01:20 if anyone has elementary staged on their pre: http://xcomputerman.com/files/efl_webos/epic_armv7 Feb 04 19:01:35 download to your /usr/local/bin/ dir and run Feb 04 19:02:03 if you don't have elementary: http://xcomputerman.com/files/efl_webos/elementary_bin.tar.gz -- extract into /usr/local Feb 04 19:02:13 gimpy530: you should install the novacom .deb pacakge with --force-architecture (directions on develop.palm.com I believe) Feb 04 19:02:43 egaudet_work: 98% sure that's is what I did months ago, but I'm already doing that again Feb 04 19:02:57 k Feb 04 19:03:37 after you do that again, do sudo initctl reload-configuration && sudo start palm-novacomd Feb 04 19:03:39 command line: ELM_ENGINE=gl_sdl /usr/local/bin/epic_armv7 Feb 04 19:03:43 debilater: qemu is used in the scratchbox to run compiled arm test program to let ./configure work transparently, etc Feb 04 19:04:23 debilater: have you checked your vm.mmap_min_addr ? Feb 04 19:04:40 egaudet_work: Awesome, errors during the sdk install.... Feb 04 19:04:54 destinal: is qemu sufficient or do I need qemu-kvm-extras? Feb 04 19:05:15 debilater: IIRC in ubuntu kvm-extras contained qemu-arm Feb 04 19:05:30 xcomp: missing libehal for me :( Feb 04 19:05:45 destinal: it's at 4096 as suggested in the wiki Feb 04 19:05:57 xcomp: (grabbed your tgz, haven't had a chance to get the build working for me) Feb 04 19:06:09 dtzWill: oops... will fix Feb 04 19:06:11 destinal: yes but my ubuntu is a little outdated Feb 04 19:06:44 debilater: try the qemu-arm-static package Feb 04 19:06:58 Does anyone have some time to help me? I'm still having difficulty setting up putty with ssh. I think I have followed all the instructions, but I'm getting the follwoing error when I try to log on "Unable to use key file "D:\Users\Ron\Documents\PuTTY SSH keys\id_rsa.ppk" (OpenSSH SSH-2 private key)" Feb 04 19:07:09 gimpy530: you need the novacom package more than the sdk package Feb 04 19:07:11 debilater: if that's available in your version, not sure Feb 04 19:07:39 dtzWill: grab the elementary package again Feb 04 19:08:15 destinal: nope. i'm currently compling the latest qemu from source, hopefully that will help Feb 04 19:08:39 i'm still working around a ton of bugs ... including getting it to behave properly in landscape mode Feb 04 19:09:02 and getting the fileselector to work on the pre Feb 04 19:09:19 xcomp: what is that elementary stuff you made? Feb 04 19:09:46 xcomp: my pictures! Feb 04 19:09:46 debilater: elementary is a evas-based widget toolkit Feb 04 19:09:50 xcomp: .....epic! :) Feb 04 19:10:01 xcomp: zomg toolbar Feb 04 19:10:59 i'll get this into preware once I can sort out the major issues and make it relatively usable Feb 04 19:11:19 xcomp: nice Feb 04 19:11:42 xcomp: very nice! :D Feb 04 19:11:43 dtzWill: and it only uses about 32% CPU during transitions Feb 04 19:14:59 total lines of code: 266 Feb 04 19:14:59 dammit stupid work proxy is still blocking xcomp's site "Games not allowed." Feb 04 19:15:55 jacques what is it you want from xcomp's site? Feb 04 19:16:59 Rick_work: scroll up ^^ Feb 04 19:17:17 egaudet_work: It worked! Feb 04 19:17:18 Rick_work: I was just going to download the elementary and epic files he just linked, but I don't really have time to look at them right now anyway - I can do it from home later Feb 04 19:17:46 the web proxy here at work has lots of false positives Feb 04 19:17:49 Ron001 you still here? Feb 04 19:18:13 gimpy530: nice! Feb 04 19:18:36 egaudet_work: SDK still won't install, but w/e Feb 04 19:20:21 egaudet_work: I'll post the fix in the forum for others later Feb 04 19:21:42 k Feb 04 19:22:47 debilater: don't know.. I do think that if you update to latest ubuntu, things should work. sorry if that's not very helpful Feb 04 19:23:55 destinal: yeah I suspect that too :) Feb 04 19:25:49 btw - did anyone know, that debian armel packages are working on the palm? I installed the stella atari 2600 emulator debian armel package and it works Feb 04 19:30:34 destinal: haha, the latest qemu seems to work, at least sb2 libtool configure runs with no errors so far ;) yeah Feb 04 19:32:24 "sb2-init completed successfully, have fun!" yipie Feb 04 19:33:26 damn: ( cd build/src ; sb2 -M /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7 ./configure --prefix=/usr/local ) Feb 04 19:33:26 PANIC: unprotected error in call to Lua API (...-scip-20100204-203246.y12374/lua_scripts/mapping.lua:22: bad argument #1 to 'match' (string expected, got nil)) Feb 04 19:33:59 New problem, I went through the Preware installer....but Preware does not show up on my Pre Feb 04 19:34:01 make stage fails at ncurses Feb 04 19:37:46 what is that: ...-scip-20100204-203603.V12531/lua_scripts/mapping.lua i can't find that file anywhere Feb 04 19:38:25 Rick_work: I'm back - pulled from my desk Feb 04 19:45:17 lol, hope your desk pulling was more entertaining than the fake fire alarm we just had... got outside they shut it off and said please disregard it... Feb 04 19:46:12 that sucks, was the weather nice at least? Feb 04 19:57:10 Ron001 what was it that was your problem again? Feb 04 20:01:04 Rick_work: I used the phone to generate keys, and copied the private key to my pc via the usb drive (in the wiki). and get this error in putty: Unable to use key file "D:\Users\Ron\Documents\PuTTY SSH keys\id_rsa.ppk" (OpenSSH SSH-2 private key) Feb 04 20:01:47 Ron001 so, on the phone the id_rsa key is in home/root/.ssh Feb 04 20:02:10 wait, I mean id_rse.pub Feb 04 20:02:35 Rick_work: nope, .ssh/authorized_keys Feb 04 20:02:36 and then you took id_rsa and copied it to your windows box, and used puttygen to convert id_rsa into id_rsa.ppk. Feb 04 20:02:52 debilater I keep forgetting that. Feb 04 20:02:55 thanks Feb 04 20:03:04 thats it, I didn't convert it Feb 04 20:03:20 you just renamed it? Feb 04 20:03:27 and: 1 key 1 line, permissions: .ssh 700 authorized_keys 600 Feb 04 20:03:27 Ron001: is it missing the backslashes or is that Mercury ? Feb 04 20:03:39 stuid autocomplete Feb 04 20:03:43 the weather is nice than it has been, but it's still barely above freezing Feb 04 20:03:53 snowing Feb 04 20:04:10 tomorrow! Feb 04 20:04:25 cause we haven't gotten enough yet Feb 04 20:04:48 ok, now I'm getting: Feb 04 20:04:48 checking for msgfmt... no Feb 04 20:04:48 configure: error: Feb 04 20:04:48 *** You must have either have gettext support in your C library, or use the Feb 04 20:04:48 *** GNU gettext library. (http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/gettext.html Feb 04 20:04:49 make[5]: *** [build/armv7.built] Fehler 1 Feb 04 20:04:49 make[5]: Verlasse Verzeichnis '/srv/preware/cross-compile/packages/glib-2.0' Feb 04 20:04:51 Rick_work: yes Feb 04 20:04:56 anyone? Feb 04 20:05:16 debilater: what are you doing Feb 04 20:05:16 Ron001 that doesn't work Feb 04 20:05:27 Rick_work: I've learned Feb 04 20:05:35 egaudet_work: trying to build the crosscompile env Feb 04 20:05:46 egaudet_work: I'm at "make stage" Feb 04 20:05:52 ron - when you get it working, update the wiki Feb 04 20:06:05 sb2 -M make from the main cross-compile/ dir Feb 04 20:06:39 egaudet_work: i did just enter "make stage", no manual sb2 command Feb 04 20:07:14 debilater: I assume you already did toolchain and rootfs? Feb 04 20:07:37 egaudet_work: yes Feb 04 20:07:49 I just do make in the main dir Feb 04 20:07:52 egaudet_work: there is a bug somewhere: curl http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.3.5/glib-2.14.4-patches.tgz | tar xvOf - | patch -d build/src -p1 Feb 04 20:07:53 is that error consistent? Feb 04 20:08:04 z is missing in tar arguments Feb 04 20:08:11 I wouldn't be suprised if not all the packages build correctly Feb 04 20:08:40 some may be missing dependencies etc... Feb 04 20:08:40 Rick_work: converted and loaded into putty. No more error, but I'm getting "Server refused our key" now Feb 04 20:09:14 debilater: what package is that for Feb 04 20:09:42 egaudet_work: so do I actually have to do that "make stage" which seems to build just everything in ./packages/ ? Feb 04 20:10:26 make or make stage yeah that's what you want Feb 04 20:10:39 but I rarely get a successful build Feb 04 20:12:49 egaudet_work: it's a dependency: libsdl => libnapp => glib-2.0 which then fails to build because of missing gettext support Feb 04 20:13:53 I don't think we use nonworking/ enough Feb 04 20:14:06 I've almost never had a successful from scratch build Feb 04 20:14:32 Sorry guys - is it considered safe to remove themes using Preware now? I remember someone saying it's better to do it through WOSQI. Feb 04 20:14:34 debilater: but there should not be aproblem with glib Feb 04 20:14:37 cd packages/glib-2.0 Feb 04 20:14:38 make stage Feb 04 20:16:01 egaudet_work: nope same error Feb 04 20:16:15 checking for msgfmt... no Feb 04 20:16:27 check the build/src/config.log Feb 04 20:16:58 configure error messages aren't always accurate Feb 04 20:17:33 there is just this: configure:8762: checking for msgfmt Feb 04 20:17:33 configure:8792: result: no Feb 04 20:17:33 configure:9257: error: Feb 04 20:17:33 *** You must have either have gettext support in your C library, or use the Feb 04 20:17:33 *** GNU gettext library. (http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/gettext.html Feb 04 20:18:15 in the config.log there should be a lot more Feb 04 20:18:27 you need to find out the actual error message from the gcc attempt Feb 04 20:18:36 ok Feb 04 20:21:49 no there's no gcc output, at least I cannot see it, here's the config.log: http://www.daemon.de/idisk/config.log Feb 04 20:25:12 are you running ubuntu 9.10 x86 32-bit Feb 04 20:26:28 nope, 8.10, latest sb2 and qemu compiled manually Feb 04 20:26:51 the real error is "conftest.c:21: error: size of array 'off_t_is_large' is negative" btw Feb 04 20:26:59 egaudet_work: please don't tell me, I've got to update :) Feb 04 20:27:05 update ;) Feb 04 20:27:10 damn :) Feb 04 20:27:12 is it 32-bit? Feb 04 20:27:14 at least Feb 04 20:27:19 yes Feb 04 20:27:32 I dunno, we only test/use 9.10 for the WIDK stuff so Feb 04 20:29:03 well actually not that isn't the "real" error Feb 04 20:29:39 debilater: ls /usr/bin/msgfmt Feb 04 20:30:17 debilater: you can try installing gettext to your machine Feb 04 20:30:45 sudo apt-get install build-essential Feb 04 20:31:42 build-essential? what's this Feb 04 20:32:00 brb lunch Feb 04 20:32:50 build-essential installs everytihng essential to building apps from source. Feb 04 20:32:58 if you alredy have somehting it skips it. Feb 04 20:32:59 ah i see Feb 04 20:33:05 but if you have something missing it puts it in. Feb 04 20:33:10 debilater: if you use something other than 9.10 server edition you'll have to track down potentially many missing packages that are stock to 9.10 sever 32-bit edition Feb 04 20:33:14 gettext is one of them Feb 04 20:33:44 brb Feb 04 20:35:01 Rick_work: but if I want to cross compile, why does it need a local gettext? I thought it would use gettext from the palm rootfs? Feb 04 20:37:41 cross compiling doesn't mean using cross-architecture tools for everything Feb 04 20:37:48 ok, if I update, could I use ubuntu 9.10 32 bit desktop version too? Feb 04 20:44:05 debilater you can yes. Feb 04 20:44:46 When cross-compileing, everything you do except actually create the arm binary code happens ON YOUR DESKTOP with your desktop's programs... we don't compile ON the pre. so all the utilities have to be on your desktop Feb 04 20:45:05 what "gettext from the palm rootfs" ? Feb 04 20:45:53 sb2 is quirky - a lot of times it needs a native version of an app installed even if it's not going to use it - something about the dynamic mapping it does I think Feb 04 20:46:08 Rick_work: ok i understand, but the error I had was about 'off_t_is_large' which came from configure when it tried to cross-complie a testprogram, so that's why I didn't understand Feb 04 20:46:20 for example, it requires native gcc installed even though it's going to use the gcc in the cross-toolchain Feb 04 20:46:21 debilater: disregard that error Feb 04 20:46:27 it doesn't effect it Feb 04 20:46:38 you are missing msgfmt (gettext library) Feb 04 20:46:45 however, i'll update to 9.10 now Feb 04 20:46:46 yeah just install gettext native Feb 04 20:47:04 sudo apt-get install gettext? Feb 04 20:47:47 ok trying... Feb 04 20:48:28 lol at this Eina warning Feb 04 20:49:59 "You must know what youa re doing, or else you will have a lot of problems." Feb 04 20:50:07 "And dolphins will disappear from the earth." Feb 04 20:50:10 "Think about that." Feb 04 20:51:52 ok, glib compiles now Feb 04 20:52:19 thx4help Feb 04 21:04:49 morning Feb 04 21:05:57 jacques: yeah (3) is for as soon as it works well enough for others to help, but no sooner ;-) Feb 04 21:06:26 So Preware gets #1 app from PreCentral round table :-) Feb 04 21:09:17 morning rwhitby Feb 04 21:13:06 jacques: did you build all the stuff in sb2 ? Feb 04 21:13:13 rwhitby morning Feb 04 21:13:50 Rick_work: have you seen ESE yet? Feb 04 21:15:59 ESE? Feb 04 21:16:00 no Feb 04 21:16:09 Emergency Service Enabler Feb 04 21:16:17 No, whatsat? Feb 04 21:16:25 you run it after a doctor, and it re-runs all the postinst scripts. Feb 04 21:16:37 ooooooooooohhhhhhhh Feb 04 21:17:14 I'm in the process of making all the optware packages compatible. AUPT patches are already idempotent and app-contained. Feb 04 21:17:44 no i was distracted Feb 04 21:17:47 ("app-contained" means that everything needed to re-run the postinst is in /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/) Feb 04 21:18:11 I was distracted by the image of x-clock running on webos. Feb 04 21:18:11 eventually, ipkgservice will do it automatically if it detects you have doctored. Feb 04 21:18:48 yeah, I got jacques and dtzWill to distract everyone while I go and change the underlying infrastructure for all our stuff and uses postinsts. Feb 04 21:19:13 then no-one notices the "Whitby, why'd you break optware!" Feb 04 21:19:26 you gotta admit -- I've never seen a screenshot of xclock running on Iphones or Androids.... Feb 04 21:19:37 rwhitby: why not have ESE do a remove/reinstall Feb 04 21:19:49 egaudet_work: that would kill cookies Feb 04 21:20:10 cookies get erased on package remove? Feb 04 21:20:14 (well, it will once we fix the bug that remove doesn't remove cookies) Feb 04 21:20:35 we? whose bug Feb 04 21:20:50 oil reported a bug on ipkgservice that we don't remove cookies when we remove a package, cause app manager does. Feb 04 21:20:59 it's in the trac Feb 04 21:21:08 and is a 1.0.0 blocker Feb 04 21:21:39 so when we fix the bug can we make it a feature too, to be used by this ESE helper Feb 04 21:22:20 well, I don't know if ESE should remove cookies Feb 04 21:22:26 since you're not removing the package Feb 04 21:22:36 you're just re-enabling it Feb 04 21:22:37 right that's what I'm saying Feb 04 21:22:49 turn the bug into a feature, so that ESE can use it to not remove cookies Feb 04 21:23:04 and in the future there may be some packages that require remove/install updates that do not want to lose cookies Feb 04 21:23:07 well, one reason not to do remove/reinstall is then you can't run ESE when disconnected from the network. Feb 04 21:23:32 which is important after doing a meta-doctor Feb 04 21:24:01 (especially if preware is going to be pre-installed, and it does this automatically even before you have put in your wifi settings) Feb 04 21:24:10 good point Feb 04 21:24:14 has anyone installed nmap on the pre Feb 04 21:24:15 ? Feb 04 21:24:21 farms: sure, it's in optware Feb 04 21:24:31 (along with 1600+ linux apps) Feb 04 21:24:35 YES!! Feb 04 21:24:47 i love this phone!! Feb 04 21:25:07 rwhitby: would there be any use for a postinst tracker on the rootfs Feb 04 21:25:30 i.e. every time ipkgservice runs a postinst and it succeeds it adds the pacakge id to this file on the rootfs Feb 04 21:26:47 egaudet_work: what's the use case? Feb 04 21:27:59 I guess there is none Feb 04 21:28:25 assuming theres a first-use file Feb 04 21:31:37 we need some vector of persistent execution which survives a doctor Feb 04 21:32:14 (but not a full erase) Feb 04 21:34:59 rwhitby and updates Feb 04 21:37:26 any thoughts on "cannot call method 'split' of undefined" when launching preware? Feb 04 21:41:17 bbl -- go ahead and do something ELSE amazing while I'm gone. Feb 04 21:41:40 * loot- solves the universe Feb 04 21:42:03 dtzWill: usually it's a broken feed Feb 04 21:42:24 turn off all feeds, and enable one by one Feb 04 21:42:36 rwhitby: okay. not a sign of somehow borking ipkg-service? Feb 04 21:42:40 rwhitby: will do, ty Feb 04 21:42:52 (it's also a bug in preware that it doesn't handle a borked feed well) Feb 04 21:43:10 * rwhitby bbl Feb 04 21:43:29 well i think i did bork it--manage feeds preferences throws same error and lists none. Feb 04 21:43:33 rwhitby: cya :) Feb 04 21:46:35 hi guys... how can i overlay some information on the wallpaper desktop, like he did http://wizardapps.net/ ?? Feb 04 21:48:12 I imagine all it is doing is taking the wallpapre, and putting text on top of it, and setting that new image as the wallpaper Feb 04 21:48:22 as far as I know there is no way to do that via APIs Feb 04 21:48:48 pYr0x what VincentLaw said. Feb 04 21:49:00 All the "active background" app are currently using cloud services Feb 04 21:49:24 and what they're doing is sending your background to the cloud, using an app there to overlay it with info and then sending itback and setting it as wallpaper. Feb 04 21:49:27 so there is no api to do that Feb 04 21:49:31 nope Feb 04 21:49:55 a couple of ajax requests, some graphics php, and a setwallaper. Feb 04 21:49:59 simple mojo app. Feb 04 21:50:08 but if i rooted my pre and have access to all the files... where must i looking for? Feb 04 21:50:25 pYr0x there's nothing to look for Feb 04 21:50:30 there's no there, there. Feb 04 21:50:44 the wallpaper is always JUST A PICTURE Feb 04 21:50:54 no you dont unterstand Feb 04 21:50:56 if it has text on it,that's because someone made a picture with text on it. Feb 04 21:51:04 ok its a wallpaper Feb 04 21:51:06 --shutting up and listening.... Feb 04 21:51:13 but... Feb 04 21:51:28 if i would to put a test on the desktop Feb 04 21:51:38 there must be a file Feb 04 21:51:49 in the linux dirs Feb 04 21:52:07 that displays that desktop Feb 04 21:52:34 so the question is... which file displays the desktop Feb 04 21:52:37 and the wallpaper Feb 04 21:54:05 pYr0x the desktop, meaning the launcher bar and the black top bar at the top of the phone, are displayed by the launcher and bar controllers in the framework. Feb 04 21:54:14 the wallpaper can be any image file on the phone Feb 04 21:54:43 the wallpaper is SET to a particular image file using the servicerequest method to com.palm.systemservice/wallpaper Feb 04 21:54:47 documented at http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1538&Itemid=285#SystemService-Wallpaper-Methods Feb 04 21:55:14 it's not a scene/HTML file like everything else, pYr0x Feb 04 21:55:27 VincentLaw: ok... that else? Feb 04 21:55:32 if you want to mess with the launcher and top bar, you will need to read the javascript files for launcher and bar controller in the framework folder on the phone... Feb 04 21:55:32 what else Feb 04 21:55:48 that else is what Rick_work just explained, the launcher bar and the black top menubar. Feb 04 21:55:55 but there's no one place that "displayes" the desktop. Feb 04 21:56:31 there's no HTML that says "heres the wallpaper" Feb 04 21:56:35 nope Feb 04 21:56:48 Rick_work: but anywhere there must put alle together Feb 04 21:56:49 does anyone have problems with large mp4 files on the pre? Feb 04 21:56:56 pYr0x: yeah, sure, in a binary Feb 04 21:57:04 it's not a file Feb 04 21:57:07 pYr0x NO, there isn't anywhere where they are all put together. Feb 04 21:57:10 there just isn't Feb 04 21:57:16 luna manager runs bar-controller Feb 04 21:57:21 luna manager runs launcher Feb 04 21:57:34 luna manager looks up the wallpaper location from the database and displays it Feb 04 21:57:37 luna manager puts the wallpaper below them, and luna manager is not a file. it's a program. Feb 04 21:57:51 I think he just wants to know where the wallpaper is Feb 04 21:57:51 so unless you wanna get real comfortable with hex editing >.> Feb 04 21:58:01 and it's the app that runs ALL your apps so you can't change it. Luna MAnager IS webOS Feb 04 21:58:40 there's no ONE PLACE. Feb 04 21:58:44 I know Feb 04 21:58:54 You can get the current location via service call right Feb 04 21:59:03 pYr0x: default wallpapers are located in /media/internal/wallpapers/, but you can also use cam images located in /media/internal/DCIM/... or somewhere else under /media/internal Feb 04 21:59:03 yes, you can. Feb 04 21:59:04 Rick_work: does luna copy the .jpg to another folder or does it always reference the location where the wallpaper image was picked from? Feb 04 21:59:22 it references the location where the wallpaper image was from. Feb 04 21:59:25 k Feb 04 21:59:51 and not only that but a wallpaper can be scaled or cropped. Feb 04 22:00:00 /media/internal/.wallpapers? Feb 04 22:00:13 speaking of I need to empty out my photos Feb 04 22:00:13 right, I didn't know if it copied it in case the original was deleted Feb 04 22:00:34 so if there will be an api for that... the api must to this: luna manager runs bar-controller, luna manager runs launcher, luna manager runs the desktop program ?? Feb 04 22:00:42 I was wrong... Once the image has been converted, the wallpaper is stored in the internal list of wallpapers on the device, and is available until deleted using deleteWallpaper. Note: the internal list of wallpapers is not the same as the Wallpapers folder that is visible to the user. Feb 04 22:00:46 luna manager IS the desktop progrma Feb 04 22:00:56 /media/internal/.wallpapers/ Feb 04 22:01:23 pYr0x Luna manager IS the desktop program. Feb 04 22:01:23 okay that makes more sense, a hidden folder, cause otherwise it'd bug out if it were deleted while being used Feb 04 22:01:26 "desktop program" there is no DESKtop Feb 04 22:01:46 luna manager does the layering, it does the rendering Feb 04 22:02:46 luna manager is the thing that controlls bringing up cards, minimizing cards, closing cards, shifting cards, etc etc etc. it is the window-controller, the equivalent of explorer in windows or whatever x-windows controler you run or cocoa on mac, or springboard on iphone. it IS the desktop. Feb 04 22:02:54 so if i would display something on the pre homescreen i will hook into luna Feb 04 22:03:03 no Feb 04 22:03:06 you can't do that. Feb 04 22:03:10 there is no mechanism for that. Feb 04 22:03:17 no such mechanism exists. Feb 04 22:03:38 if you want to display something on the homescreen you have exactly and precisely two choices. Feb 04 22:03:45 1) you can modify a wallpaper. Feb 04 22:03:46 you can ONLY change the wallpaper image. that is ALL you c an do Feb 04 22:04:02 2) you can modify the launch bar code. Feb 04 22:04:07 i mean.. hook into luna binary Feb 04 22:04:17 pYr0x there is no mechanism to do that. Feb 04 22:04:26 it's closed source and VERY VERY complex. Feb 04 22:04:50 i know... but only for unterstanding Feb 04 22:05:12 the mechanism is the same, as display the wallpaper... Feb 04 22:05:27 but i know.. luna is closed source Feb 04 22:05:39 ? Feb 04 22:05:47 so now way until an api cames out Feb 04 22:05:55 understand that your BEST option for that is to modify the launch bar. Feb 04 22:05:58 and there's no plans of such an API Feb 04 22:06:02 there is an api to change wallpaper Feb 04 22:06:07 you won't get any API beyond that Feb 04 22:06:09 probably ever Feb 04 22:06:20 is the "depends" definitions in the widk just the name of the folder that contains the makefile of the dependency? Feb 04 22:06:21 rwhitby: yes I built all the X stuff with sb2, I just don't have all the Makefiles/patches written for the various configs/hacks I needed Feb 04 22:06:22 The entire idea of webos is cards Feb 04 22:06:42 zsoc: yeas Feb 04 22:06:52 egaudet_work: ty Feb 04 22:07:09 Rawr Feb 04 22:07:32 ugh, this is going to be so frustrating Feb 04 22:07:37 i'm not a build environment master :( Feb 04 22:08:25 dtzWill: about? Feb 04 22:08:45 Rick_work: in homebrew there was an app called "active home screen" was that app a fake? but in the desc. he said that i can put contacts on the homescreen Feb 04 22:09:01 jacques: hey, i'm here and there :) Feb 04 22:09:29 pYr0x: yeah the homescreen of the application Feb 04 22:09:34 or onto the launcher Feb 04 22:10:03 dtzWill: I've been trying to trace execution flow. I think printf is being preprocessed out or something, but changing to fprintf(stderr, ...) works Feb 04 22:10:19 Tibfib: homescreen = screen with the wallpaper in the background Feb 04 22:10:30 jacques: grep for freopen ? Feb 04 22:10:41 anyway, I see sdlShadowUpdate() being called just as it should be Feb 04 22:10:46 jacques: nvm not there. Feb 04 22:10:55 pYr0x: you cant do that.... not without changing the wallpaper as previously mentioned Feb 04 22:10:55 jacques: yes i do as well, which.. is confusing. Feb 04 22:11:10 also, the sdlTimer func is receiving mouse events from the touchscreen Feb 04 22:11:20 jacques: that's where i left it last night--i wanted a rested mind to try to figure out what is going wrong Feb 04 22:11:22 down, up, and motion Feb 04 22:11:36 Tibfib: i said there was an app called "activ home screen" Feb 04 22:11:41 was that app a fake? Feb 04 22:11:44 jacques: yep looks like it should be (i can't imagine why it wouldn't), for a bit i thought timer wasn't getting called but as you've seen it down Feb 04 22:11:47 *does Feb 04 22:11:51 and key events, but the keycode is always 0 Feb 04 22:11:53 pYr0x: it's an APP Feb 04 22:12:10 jacques: hrm. we can probably fix that. having stderr to play with makes debugging this less annoying Feb 04 22:12:16 you can make your app do and look like whatever you want while the card is open Feb 04 22:12:17 pYr0x: noo.. I have had it installed Feb 04 22:12:28 dtzWill: I think rendering might be a mode / sdl flags issue Feb 04 22:12:32 it MIMIC'd the look of the homescreen Feb 04 22:12:38 Tibfib: download link? Feb 04 22:12:47 go to the catalog dude Feb 04 22:12:49 it's a paid app Feb 04 22:12:55 germany.... Feb 04 22:13:07 jacques: well it uses SDL_SWSURFACE (default, '0') and I think a number of other apps do. but we can investigate. Feb 04 22:13:28 hmmm... no pkgconfig in sb2? Feb 04 22:13:37 dtzWill: I currently think 1) SDL mode / init issue 2) somehow input events not being passed to the X server, but they are coming into the app Feb 04 22:14:10 oh you're talking about input now not video. nvm my comments about init then, i dind't look too hard at the input stuff yet Feb 04 22:14:19 jacques: i agree with your assessment Feb 04 22:14:27 dtzWill: I agree - SDL_SWSURFACE is known to work. and it can't be a general broken shadow thing because rendering works when card is minimized Feb 04 22:14:36 pYr0x: http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/activecard-2-beta-3-day-preview 3 day preview Feb 04 22:14:59 jacques: my thoughts exactly. i'm concerned something more lame is going on Feb 04 22:15:00 but SDL on the Pre behaves differently when maximized and minimized - that's where I'm going to look Feb 04 22:15:04 jacques: changing init flags is easy :) Feb 04 22:15:10 jacques: sounds like a plan. Feb 04 22:15:21 dtzWill: it sure is and as such will be tried first Feb 04 22:15:47 Tibfib: so thats an app.. and displays an card.... and the card must always on top... Feb 04 22:16:06 didn't I say that already Feb 04 22:16:20 egaudet_work: yes :) Feb 04 22:16:31 it's almost as if you do not believe us :P Feb 04 22:16:43 ok :) Feb 04 22:17:09 I like the idea of the homescreen app although I personally don't require one Feb 04 22:17:21 offers a lot of customization to people that want it Feb 04 22:18:20 PuffTheMagic_: you see faac is in 1.3.5? i never noticed Feb 04 22:18:21 what is a frigg Feb 04 22:18:22 ? Feb 04 22:18:35 no i didnt Feb 04 22:18:39 why is a frigg requesting CTCP VERSION Feb 04 22:19:46 egaudet_work: I dunno but I got those requests too Feb 04 22:22:53 let's gang up on frigg! Feb 04 22:23:00 ok time to head home Feb 04 22:25:21 rwhitby: ping Feb 04 22:27:32 zsoc: he's probably having breakfast or heading in to work Feb 04 22:27:46 jacques: kk, it's cool, i figured it out,er sort of Feb 04 22:30:25 jacques: are you familiar with the widk at all? Feb 04 22:34:17 rwhitby: ping Feb 04 22:37:30 frigg is friggin annoying Feb 04 22:40:34 what's the proper way of adding a lib to the widk? use git add on just the 1 directory and commit / push? Feb 04 22:41:42 whats good Feb 04 22:42:15 building bison scares me Feb 04 22:42:34 zsoc: it should :) Feb 04 22:42:55 dtzWill: it has a seriously non standard makefile D: i guess that happens when you're making a parser lol Feb 04 22:43:01 dtzWill: it's a necessary evil in my case Feb 04 22:43:35 dtzWill: but, on the plus side... we have working bison :) hehe Feb 04 22:44:17 zsoc: wooo. now we need yacc and we got a start to our own compiler xD Feb 04 22:44:53 dtzWill: nope, flex is next on my table ;) Feb 04 22:45:51 i hate Macs Feb 04 22:45:56 ^^ take note! Feb 04 22:46:11 lexical analysts are fun too :D Feb 04 22:46:14 PuffTheMagic_: i hate eMacs ;) Feb 04 22:46:23 i hate those too Feb 04 22:48:54 and emacs Feb 04 22:48:55 :D Feb 04 22:49:06 emacs is the best os ever made Feb 04 22:50:02 lol Feb 04 22:50:41 yay flex builds Feb 04 22:54:46 how would i sed 2.12 to 2.10 in a configure file? Feb 04 22:54:54 * zsoc <-- sed nub Feb 04 22:55:11 sed -e 's/2.12/210/' Feb 04 22:55:21 + . Feb 04 22:55:23 :) Feb 04 22:55:29 sed -e 's/2.12/2.10/' :) Feb 04 22:55:34 sed -e 's/2.12/2.210' configure Feb 04 22:55:34 ? Feb 04 22:55:42 i have to specify the filename at the end right? Feb 04 22:55:52 zsoc: yes Feb 04 22:56:02 and what is -e? Feb 04 22:56:08 zsoc: but it puts it out to stdout Feb 04 22:56:22 ah Feb 04 22:57:19 so: cp configure configure.orig && sed -e 's/2.12/2.10/' configure.orig > configure Feb 04 22:57:55 zsoc: or create a patch and apply it from the Makefile Feb 04 22:58:17 debilater: i was trying to avoid that :) ty tho Feb 04 23:04:40 debilater: worked like a charm btw Feb 04 23:05:17 i always kind of wanted to know how to do that. i'm the loser that travels into the build/work/make directory, opens a git, makes changes, uses git diff to make a patch, and applys the patch during the build process lol Feb 04 23:10:34 hmm... Why isn't glib in the widk? Feb 04 23:10:43 I mean, why is a nonworking version of the makefile in /packages Feb 04 23:10:48 it is glib-2.0 Feb 04 23:11:13 lol I had glib build problems some hours earlier :) Feb 04 23:11:30 debilater: oh, i'm a huge stupid idiot Feb 04 23:11:34 i simply have a non current version Feb 04 23:11:42 zsoc: me too Feb 04 23:11:47 Ok, git question time, if I pull, will git destroy my changes? Feb 04 23:12:07 if you didn't commit them, y not :) Feb 04 23:12:26 debilater: i mean will it destroy my local changes Feb 04 23:13:08 ok serious, I'm not sure, but I think it wont, it would tell you of the conflict instead afaik or something Feb 04 23:13:18 that would make sense Feb 04 23:13:24 im not the git master Feb 04 23:16:42 debilater: yeah it didn't overwrite anything... but uh... hmm.. 2 glib issues. 1 the tar command for the patch is xv0f instead of zxvf (which is just... what?) and also it expects pkgconfig, which isn't in the widk Feb 04 23:16:46 did you run into similar issues? Feb 04 23:16:47 another question: some inglorious basterd commited a change to a git repository as I can see in their trac site but if I look into the git source only the changed files are there, not the added files, but they are visible on the trac page. shall I now add some web crawler crab into the makefile which fetches the missing files from the trac page and converts them to real files or what can I do??? Feb 04 23:17:31 zsoc: yes you have to add the "z" to the makefile where it extracts the patchfile. and gettext has to be installed on your box Feb 04 23:17:56 debilater: gettext has to be installed locally, or in the sb2 env? Feb 04 23:18:00 zsoc: pkgconfig? hm, I didn't have any problem with that Feb 04 23:18:13 i bet the patch fixes the pkgconfig issue :p Feb 04 23:18:17 locally unless you are running ubuntu 9.10 Feb 04 23:18:33 in this vb i am running ubuntu 9.10 :p Feb 04 23:18:51 so why did no one fix this patch issue? Feb 04 23:18:58 ok so just adding the z might fix it completely Feb 04 23:19:18 everyone might be happy with adding the z lol Feb 04 23:21:50 debilater: nope, tells me the patch file is garbage Feb 04 23:22:06 and i leave 0 and z and it tells me the patch file doesn't use 0-7 options Feb 04 23:22:10 xcomp: why did you break glib :D Feb 04 23:23:57 sigh Feb 04 23:24:05 now i wonder if the patch is legit malformed Feb 04 23:24:09 zsoc: I have this line and it works: curl ${PATCH} | tar xvOzf - | patch -d build/src -p1 Feb 04 23:24:13 debilater: you build glib in the widk? Feb 04 23:24:21 zsoc: yes Feb 04 23:25:02 debilater: oh. worked that time Feb 04 23:25:03 weird Feb 04 23:25:14 must have been a fluke bad checksum last time or something Feb 04 23:25:18 ty again Feb 04 23:25:30 still telling me pkgconfig isn't found tho ;) i'll try installing locally Feb 04 23:26:46 yep that worked Feb 04 23:27:23 * zsoc wonders if he should add pkg-config and gettext package suggestions in the initial install wiki Feb 04 23:28:41 oh, pkg-config is already in there, weird Feb 04 23:30:03 ok, i through gettext up on the wiki in the prerequisites, which is also spelt wrong on there, no sure if that's on purpose Feb 04 23:30:05 go I hate linux Feb 04 23:30:09 do => god Feb 04 23:30:10 god i love linux Feb 04 23:30:41 what a nightmare those makefiles, if you ever worked with freebsd ports collection you'd hate it too :) Feb 04 23:30:48 wah Feb 04 23:31:58 is there a way to trigger the ringoff button by software? Feb 04 23:36:41 debilater: it's really not bad, plus these aren't exactly standard... Feb 04 23:36:48 although i'm more comfortable with ebuilds :D Feb 04 23:37:21 zsoc: well ebuild is nearly the same as ports :) Feb 04 23:37:44 debilater: ah, then i probably wouldn't mind that so much :) Feb 04 23:38:05 debilater: i mean, i don't believe makefiles were intended to be used quite like this... albeit it works in this scenerio Feb 04 23:38:31 zsoc: in fact the widk IS the ebuild/ports collection for the palm pre :) Feb 04 23:38:44 kinda Feb 04 23:38:44 hehe Feb 04 23:38:50 kinda indeed xD Feb 04 23:39:18 "configure: error: Need libxml2 for glib2 builds -- you should be able to do without it -- this needs fixing" <-- lol, nothing like configure errors with comments in the stdout Feb 04 23:39:40 I tried to get the crosscompile stuff running on my freebsd box in the first place but it didn't work, so now I occupied the ubuntu box of my daughter :) Feb 04 23:40:32 debilater: the fact that your daughter has an ubuntu box clearly makes you an excellent father Feb 04 23:40:54 hehe Feb 04 23:41:58 sed -e 'beginingoffirstline, beginingoflastline/d' filename <-- will delete a range of lines correct? Feb 04 23:42:32 or do i need to be like '23,42/d' Feb 04 23:42:54 er, 23,42d Feb 04 23:42:57 bah i'm confused lol Feb 04 23:43:52 zsoc: a nope, sed works line based Feb 04 23:47:25 zsoc: what do you want to do with sed? Feb 04 23:47:37 debilater: n/m Feb 04 23:47:55 sorry, i tend to talk a lot, more like a white board, i end up figuring things out generally Feb 04 23:49:09 oh that's funny, libxml2 is _definitely_ necessary... what a silly configure comment lol Feb 04 23:49:12 great the Makefile creates xpm files, segfaults but continues... Feb 04 23:50:08 debilater: for what? Feb 04 23:50:30 debilater: ive found in my cross compiling experience, a lot of things love to try to execute tests on the host system lol Feb 04 23:50:47 zsoc: ahm I'm trying to build navit, I need a navigation app and I didn't find any european maps for the sprintnav app Feb 04 23:51:02 debilater: ah, you aren't the first Feb 04 23:51:10 i don't recall what the issue the other fellow was having Feb 04 23:51:13 unless you're the other fellow Feb 04 23:51:32 zsoc: yes but the other guy had sdl problems, but didn't continue the work, afaik Feb 04 23:51:36 ah Feb 04 23:51:37 zsoc: if they cross build env is setup correct you shouldnt ber getting tests calling host foo Feb 04 23:51:57 swishy: yeah i'd imagine such :/ er... except for perl. perl is just a mess :> Feb 04 23:52:11 zsoc: even then its possible :) Feb 04 23:52:12 hehe Feb 04 23:52:15 yeah perl is nasty Feb 04 23:52:19 but you can beat it into shape Feb 04 23:52:27 perl is great :) Feb 04 23:52:50 debilater: Im a perl fan but the build system sucks rocks for anything other than native installs Feb 04 23:53:06 swishy: ack :) Feb 04 23:54:03 zsoc: I have had perl in /System/Library/Libraries/Perl-* with no posix links etc for example ;) (on a linux OS ) Feb 04 23:54:13 swishy: however I don't think it's a better idea to use languages like "lua" for a build system :) Feb 04 23:55:02 i love when this place gets full of linux geekery Feb 04 23:55:18 hehe Feb 04 23:55:25 holy crab! build complete Feb 04 23:55:36 I can't believe it Feb 04 23:55:58 debilater: well you knew it worked... now for the fun SDL issues :D Feb 04 23:56:06 oh my goddness, uploading, uploading... Feb 04 23:58:49 damn I disabled ssh on the daughters box argl :) Feb 04 23:59:42 silly question... if --with-threads (on), then it's default... so i should have to --without-threads, no? Feb 04 23:59:54 debilater: i would disable ssh on any box without 100 feet of my daughter, if i had one :> Feb 05 00:05:17 so.. -lz is zlib... what's -lm ? Feb 05 00:05:25 libm Feb 05 00:08:59 and libm is... Feb 05 00:09:12 oh, math Feb 05 00:09:14 duh Feb 05 00:09:31 one day i will have this infrastructure building. Feb 05 00:19:53 bbl Feb 05 00:57:26 jacques: cool, but since you built with sb2, it means that it can be turned into makefiles - it's just a matter of work, not technical difficulty. Feb 05 00:58:18 dBsooner: syn|ack Feb 05 01:01:03 I have a preware question Feb 05 01:01:15 I installed preware, and a few applications. How do I launch those applications? Feb 05 01:01:16 ~smarts-questions Feb 05 01:01:27 Heh. Feb 05 01:01:30 controller: same as any other webos application Feb 05 01:01:39 it doesn't show up Feb 05 01:01:58 is it an application, or a linux utility or a service or a plugin or a patch that you installed? Feb 05 01:02:04 the package I installed was optware advanced linux command line Feb 05 01:02:23 ah, that's not an application. it's a command line utility (as the name states) Feb 05 01:02:33 (and as the description clearly states too) Feb 05 01:02:35 You won't see an icon for those Feb 05 01:02:53 well what I want is to be able to use the command line from the pre and not ssh in Feb 05 01:03:01 what application would work in that scenario? Feb 05 01:03:09 Terminal Feb 05 01:03:59 thank you Feb 05 01:04:32 I haven't had a local linux box in years Feb 05 01:04:48 Be careful using Terminal then ;) Feb 05 01:04:54 rm -rf / Feb 05 01:04:54 haven't been on irc in years either Feb 05 01:04:56 :P Feb 05 01:04:58 use to hang on efnet Feb 05 01:05:18 it was so much fun 10 years ago Feb 05 01:06:53 preware is really impressive Feb 05 01:07:20 I switched the "Now go build this" link at the end of WIDK article to point to DOOM .. it's written up way better than scummvm and this was easier than moving all the writeup on how to package etc Feb 05 01:08:23 not really sure why it was pointed away from doom in the first place Feb 05 01:17:14 guess who is about to pick up a large pepperoni pizza Feb 05 01:17:42 rod? Feb 05 01:17:45 :P Feb 05 01:17:59 local spot or chain? Feb 05 01:18:09 no, I've already said in the pre101 interview what I have on my pizzas Feb 05 01:18:39 local Feb 05 01:19:07 So, usbnet on a mac laptop. PuffTheMagic_, got it set up yet? Feb 05 01:20:42 rwhitby: where can one find this interview -- I'm irrationally curious now.. Feb 05 01:20:47 ;) Feb 05 01:21:06 http://pre101.com/blog/2009/11/23/interview-with-webos-internals-rod-whitby/ Feb 05 01:21:54 that's one loaded pizza Feb 05 01:22:26 webosroundup also did an interview, but no pizza Feb 05 01:22:27 http://www.webosroundup.com/2009/12/preware-now-and-later-an-interview-with-webos-internals-founder-rod-whitby/ Feb 05 01:23:05 heading home Feb 05 01:23:08 biab Feb 05 01:23:08 it's nearly impossible to find a proper pizza where I live. by proper I mean neopolitan style, cooked at incredible heat for very little time, cracker-crisp crust but not burned. Feb 05 01:24:00 on a real pizza, the crust is one of the best things about it Feb 05 01:25:11 also home ovens don't get anywhere near hot enough to do it unless you jerry-rig the cleaning cycle :) Feb 05 01:27:48 does anyone have an idea what to do about this: arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++: /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.3.2/crtbeginS.o: No such file or directory ? Feb 05 01:27:48 ? Feb 05 01:28:06 destinal: so neopolitan style isnt 1/3 chocolate, 1/3 strawberry, and 1/3 vanilla? Feb 05 01:28:12 xenoph0be|work: lol Feb 05 01:28:43 i guess i've never had proper pizza, we just have papa johns, pizza hut/inn, and little caesars Feb 05 01:28:57 xenoph0be: indeed you have not, IMO Feb 05 01:28:59 ouch :( Feb 05 01:29:27 debilater: that's a cross-compiler accessing host compiler objects. bad news. Feb 05 01:30:11 good times Feb 05 01:30:47 rwhitby: so can i somehow circumvent this? Feb 05 01:31:14 debilater: are you running the widk on a ubuntu 9.10 32-bit server virgin install? Feb 05 01:32:24 xenoph0be: look for any places that advertise wood oven pizza (as in usually stone, ceramic, or brick ovens where they burn wood to get the heat up to 800+ degrees F Feb 05 01:32:27 widk on ubuntu 8.10 Feb 05 01:33:14 rwhitby: I'm trying to build navit, navit itself already builds but I forgot to add gpsd support, so I added a gpsd build script and that fails with the above error Feb 05 01:34:16 destinal: in my area of the country (central usa), we have 2 "brick oven" pizzerias, but they use frozen preformed crusts that are just nasty Feb 05 01:34:23 ugh Feb 05 01:35:38 xenoph0be: I have the choice of at least ten pizza services here :) all - of course - hand made on stone :) Feb 05 01:35:43 oh, well, you can build a decent one for miniature pizzas out of a modified charcoal grill. but I'm way off topic. Feb 05 01:35:51 debilater: nice Feb 05 01:36:00 heheh Feb 05 01:36:30 debilater: ah, so good pizza is common in germany, then? Feb 05 01:36:53 I had no idea Feb 05 01:37:47 destinal: well, there are just too much italians here *g* Feb 05 01:38:30 destinal: and its a large city, so... Feb 05 01:39:13 bbl Feb 05 01:39:16 rwhitby: great interview Feb 05 01:44:17 debilater: thanks Feb 05 01:44:52 debilater: best thing to do is check it into the nonworking area, and then ask others to try and reproduce on the supported platform. Feb 05 01:47:43 rwhitby: I forgot to cp the sb2 libtool into the build dir, re-trying... Feb 05 01:50:02 rwhitby: nonworking area? on git? Feb 05 01:53:02 debilater: cross-compile.git/nonworking Feb 05 01:53:21 rwhitby: ah ok Feb 05 01:53:22 where new packages should go until we have confirmed hassle-free building on the supported platform Feb 05 01:54:12 rwhitby: no i havent tried Feb 05 01:54:15 should I be? Feb 05 01:54:32 rwhitby: what are your thoughts on the deps for Xsdl ? like where they should go in cross-compile - there are tons of them - maybe packages/xsdl/deps or something? Feb 05 01:54:50 PuffTheMagic_: I was just about to work out how to set it up, and hoped someone had done it first :-) Feb 05 01:55:16 jacques: currently the makefiles only support a single level of dirs Feb 05 01:55:20 then again, they are deps for many X packages, so maybe packages/xorg ? Feb 05 01:55:30 rwhitby: come on i've only had this mac for a week Feb 05 01:55:52 i cant even handle fn and ctrl being reversed Feb 05 01:56:55 rwhitby: 10.5.x http://bugcommunity.com/downloads/usbcdc-g_ether.zip Feb 05 01:57:30 PuffTheMagic_: KeyRemap4MacBook Feb 05 01:57:46 rwhitby: the patches.webos-internals.org DNS entry is incorrect. Feb 05 01:57:48 PuffTheMagic_: and I have a patch for it which does "the right thing" for terminals Feb 05 01:58:03 lol so i am not the only one with this issue? Feb 05 01:58:37 PuffTheMagic_: well, there's a tool, but I had to patch it to make it work the way my hands work Feb 05 01:58:38 i am trying to get my dept to by my a linux license for LispWorks Feb 05 01:58:39 rwhitby: patches.webos-internals.org. 86383 IN CNAME webos-patches.dbsooner.com.webos-internals.org. Feb 05 01:58:46 i am so unproductive on macs Feb 05 01:58:53 you forgot to put a "." at the end of webos-patches.dbsooner.com I bet Feb 05 01:59:07 so it's appending "webos-internals.org" Feb 05 02:03:15 rwhitby: I seem not to be allowed to add stuff to nonworking/ ... Feb 05 02:08:10 jacques: around? :) Feb 05 02:12:44 rwhitby: ok, done, I added a fix to glib-2.0/Makefile and added nonworking/gpsd and nonworking/navit Feb 05 02:14:30 doh. I landed an xplane,but without gear down. fortunately I lived. :) Feb 05 02:16:01 unfortunately that jets not going anywhere anytime soon Feb 05 02:17:08 dBsooner: fixed, but will take a little while to propagate Feb 05 02:17:09 destinal-wirc: you did what?! Feb 05 02:17:33 rwhitby: Cool. Thanks.. that's why I set my DNS entries to a 5 minute TOS. Feb 05 02:17:38 TTL* Feb 05 02:19:17 dbsooner: playing xplane on pre. I managed a really great landing, so even though my landing gear wasn't down (oops) I didn't end in flaming death. unfortunately you can't deploy gear when sitting on them, so I'll have to restart :) Feb 05 02:25:11 dtzWill: yes, I am here Feb 05 02:27:17 jacques: oh just you were packaging it up; did you make any progress on the other two steps? :) Feb 05 02:29:36 dtzWill: just looking ahead. I have been debugging the rendering issue. still no rendering at full screen, but I am learning lots about SDL in the process Feb 05 02:29:47 can you use -rpath on a bind mount? ie: /var/local is bound to /usr/local, rpath /usr/local/lib to /usr/local (files are located in /var/local/lib, then) Feb 05 02:30:41 zsoc: if I understand your question, -rpath /usr/local/lib works fine Feb 05 02:31:39 jacques: yeah, i mistyped a part at the end there, lol. Ok, so if the widk preware package bind mounts /var/local to /usr/local, I can install libs into /var/local/lib and use rpath to have them recognized as in /usr/lib Feb 05 02:32:06 ugh, i liked it better when rod did the monkey work lol Feb 05 02:32:58 Does anyone know what version of libc is used in the widk? Feb 05 02:33:36 2007q3... i guess i can find it on codesorcery somewhere Feb 05 02:33:47 zsoc: 2.5 Feb 05 02:33:55 ty Feb 05 02:34:06 and yes, cs has a list of toolchain component versions Feb 05 02:34:23 i'm having a weird zlib _or_ libm problem and i can't figure out if it's the palm zlib patch or the version of libc causing it Feb 05 02:34:47 X running on webOS is *sick* Feb 05 02:34:53 nt4cats: yep Feb 05 02:35:07 gaso! Feb 05 02:35:16 dBsooner: down big boy Feb 05 02:35:36 jacques: learning is good :) Feb 05 02:36:06 * dBsooner didn't expect ChanServ to be that nice. Feb 05 02:36:21 * nt4cats offers mad props to jacques and dtzWill Feb 05 02:36:53 Oh.. I did something very strange today at work. Feb 05 02:37:00 dBsooner: do tell Feb 05 02:37:03 heh, thanks nt4cats Feb 05 02:37:04 I helped a lady bury her dog. Feb 05 02:37:13 ... Feb 05 02:37:15 that's not ok Feb 05 02:37:17 Yeah. Feb 05 02:37:29 I was expecting like "i spilled my coffee" Feb 05 02:37:33 zsoc: install the libs in /usr/local/lib, and -rpath them from there. Feb 05 02:37:46 rwhitby: thank you :) Feb 05 02:38:05 I was expecting: I came out of the employee gym and realized I forgot to put on pants Feb 05 02:38:21 rwhitby: once i get everything working, I just git add the folders that are new, commit, and push, right? Feb 05 02:38:24 She was the older lady that is having a separation from her husband who just got back from Iraq.. His 16 yr old daughter that they fought for custody for has basically torn the family apart now. Feb 05 02:38:24 zsoc: widk arranges for /usr/local/lib to be somewhere sensible in sb2 and on the device Feb 05 02:38:31 and she was having all sorts of other problems. Feb 05 02:38:35 zsoc: yep, under non-working to start with Feb 05 02:38:48 rwhitby: er... even if they work? ie: you do the moving? Feb 05 02:38:54 Then on top of that, she said her dog died like 30 minutes before i got there and the jingle on my tool pouch reminded her of her. Feb 05 02:39:14 rwhitby: i ask because right now the dependencies are set at ../nonworking/ because it's expecting /packages/ Feb 05 02:39:34 dBsooner: i am depressed, thank you Feb 05 02:39:42 And I thought.. man.. this lady has been going through all this.. alone.. how the heck is she going to bury that dog on her own? she won't be able to. One because thats gonna need to be a big hole and two she's alone. Feb 05 02:39:50 zsoc: if you can guarantee that they will work in a virgin install of ubuntu 9.10 x86 32-bit server with only the packages listed on the wiki pages and no others and with a clear staging area and no other packages built first other than through the depends mechanism, feel free to put them in packages Feb 05 02:39:53 zsoc: I'll FedEx you a puppy to make you feel better Feb 05 02:39:56 I couldn't imagine having to do that alone. Crying and stuff. Feb 05 02:40:09 So i had to offer.. I ended up making her let me. Feb 05 02:40:16 I went back there an hour after I left her house to do it. Feb 05 02:40:19 I felt so good. Feb 05 02:40:22 rwhitby: ok :) also i added gettext to the prerequisites on the wiki (because glib needs it) Feb 05 02:40:23 It was so sad. Feb 05 02:40:35 Also, did anyone fix the glib patch typo? I feel like that should be fixed. Feb 05 02:40:41 zsoc: yeah I just hit that last night Feb 05 02:40:57 i mean the error is sort of obvious... "Add a 'z' stupidface" Feb 05 02:40:59 dBsooner: you are a saint Feb 05 02:41:08 rwhitby: Thank you. Feb 05 02:41:13 sounds like watercooler convo Feb 05 02:41:14 rwhitby: it really made me feel good. Feb 05 02:41:20 dBsooner: yeah but seriously, that's pretty cool. belongs on that reddit thread Feb 05 02:41:34 She begged me to take something.. She was like, "Please let me give you something for helping me" Feb 05 02:41:39 I said.."no.' Feb 05 02:41:49 she asked again.. so I said, "A hug.. I'll take a hug." Feb 05 02:41:50 that's cool Feb 05 02:42:05 dBsooner: tell her to instead give it to the humane society or her church/synogague/mosque Feb 05 02:42:12 Sorry, just had to break the rules one time. Feb 05 02:42:27 dBsooner: guys with the +o's get to break the rules ;) Feb 05 02:42:44 libxml2 is full of fail Feb 05 02:42:47 I try not to though. But this one I really wnated to share. Feb 05 02:43:03 Even though I feel I just did what any one would have done in the situation. Feb 05 02:43:20 zsoc: i have a build of libxml2 somewhere, fwiw. what issues are you seeing? Feb 05 02:43:49 dtzWill: building against libc 2.5 and the palm patched zlib, i'll give you the errors in a sec... some missing declarations Feb 05 02:44:06 good story dBsooner Feb 05 02:44:07 zsoc: actually, I argue that +o's make the rules :p Feb 05 02:44:17 PuffTheMagic_: from http://www.bugcommunity.com/wiki/index.php/Start_Guide_Mac_OS_X_10.5: "Do not install the USBCDC-G_ether driver on OS X 10.6." Doh! Feb 05 02:44:27 I believe in Karma.. What goes around comes around. Feb 05 02:44:31 * rwhitby should have read that first :-) Feb 05 02:44:51 dBsooner: better buy a lotto ticket :p Feb 05 02:45:03 nah, it has already come back around. Feb 05 02:45:04 or would that be self-serving Feb 05 02:45:05 lawl Feb 05 02:45:25 rwhitby: what happened when you did? Feb 05 02:45:51 nothing, but I'm concerned what it might have silently broken, so I need to work out how to carefully remove it Feb 05 02:47:20 the exciting world of OSX? :) Feb 05 02:47:52 dtzWill: undefined references to: inflateEnd', `gzopen', `gzclose', `deflate', `gzrewind', `inflateInit2_, `inflate', `gzwrite', `crc32', `deflateEnd', `gzdopen', `deflateInit2, gzread Feb 05 02:48:47 dtzWill: so zlib is asploding somewhere Feb 05 02:50:25 Also, greping the /packages/zlib/Makefile returns no results for "make". This seems wrong to me. Feb 05 02:51:35 yep. it doesn't make zlib Feb 05 02:51:37 zsoc: find . -name Makefile|xargs sed -i "s/LDFLAGS =/LDFLAGS =\-L\/usr\/local\/lib -Wl,-rpath=\/usr\/local\/lib -lz/" Feb 05 02:51:44 zsoc: if you put it on one line, it's clean :P Feb 05 02:52:06 oh interesting .. i didn't notice the layout change to opensource.palm.com untl just now Feb 05 02:52:21 zsoc: zsoc less hacky probably just set LDFLAGS to that before configure Feb 05 02:52:37 zsoc: you may need -rpath-link too Feb 05 02:52:44 dtzWill: i'm unsure how that's going to fix anything? Feb 05 02:52:49 zsoc: it does Feb 05 02:52:56 zsoc: the problem is it doesn't find the z properly Feb 05 02:52:57 but i want to know why :( Feb 05 02:53:27 nm /usr/local/lib/libz.so|less Feb 05 02:53:32 you'll find those undefined references Feb 05 02:54:16 you mean /staging/armv7/usr/lib > Feb 05 02:54:18 ? Feb 05 02:54:21 zsoc: as to why they aren't including -lz themselves? no idea Feb 05 02:54:27 zsoc: errr if you're in sb2 then /usr/local/lib Feb 05 02:54:37 ah Feb 05 02:54:46 zsoc: if not then yeah the staged libs Feb 05 02:55:12 the makefiles should never refer to the staging area other than as /usr/local/lib in sb2 Feb 05 02:55:28 rwhitby: doesn't ${SB2} take care of that ? Feb 05 02:56:00 zsoc: it does, what I'm saying is that you should depend on that, and not try and access the staging area through a non-sb2 path Feb 05 02:56:19 rwhitby: right, noted. just making sure we were talking about the same thing :) Feb 05 02:56:41 right. so is it a -rpath-link problem? Feb 05 02:57:08 rwhitby: dtzWill is the one with the answer, i'm not sure where the problem lies Feb 05 02:58:06 what are you guys breaking :P Feb 05 02:58:38 I had to use LDFLAGS to configure lots of X stuff Feb 05 02:58:39 rwhitby: yeah it's two things. one that for whatever reason afaict libxml2 needs -lz but doesn't add it to the makefile ldflags Feb 05 02:58:39 egaudet: i am being expert at finding bugs :( Feb 05 02:59:04 config.log can be useful to see what's failing Feb 05 02:59:17 dtzWill: ! oh! i read that as a bug somewhere Feb 05 02:59:19 rwhitby: then the normal -rpath deal I just threw in by habit ;), since that's correct/fine but didn't feel inclined to find minimal Feb 05 02:59:24 zsoc: oh hey there you go Feb 05 02:59:40 dtzWill: libxml2 guys claimed there was some holy reason for it **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 05 02:59:56 2010