**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 05 02:59:56 2010 Feb 05 03:01:12 zsoc: i don't really care about their holy reasons, i want my code to compile :) Feb 05 03:01:25 although if there's a better way, then we should use that Feb 05 03:01:42 better way to do what than what? Feb 05 03:02:04 oh to get libxml2 to link in libz other than hacking at the makefile Feb 05 03:02:20 jacques: although to be honest since i was trying to get /x/ working, libxml2 wasn't a big concern, didn't try very hard Feb 05 03:02:39 I didn't need libxml2 Feb 05 03:03:06 jacques: sure, like i said i built quite a large number of the dependencies Feb 05 03:03:23 but many packages required LDFLAGS="-Wl,-rpath,/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib" ./configure --prefix=/usr/local Feb 05 03:03:25 jacques: not sure which needed it anymore, tbh. but there's a component that refuses to build without it Feb 05 03:04:45 jacques: sure sure. but libxml2 just flat out doesn't even TRY to link in a required dependency Feb 05 03:05:00 jacques: so the resulting error isn't "couldn't find libz" (which yuor ldflags fix) Feb 05 03:05:16 jacques: but just plain undefenined references b/c no one told the compiler to include libz in the party Feb 05 03:06:52 that sounds like a bug in the autotools configs Feb 05 03:06:53 zsoc: so apparently i made a typo when i tried just setting the ldflags before. use jacque's command above (b/c i'm too lazy to retype :P) but add "-lz" to the end of the LDFLAGS definition, before the second quote Feb 05 03:07:11 dtzWill: so back to my original question.... i can throw your sed magic somewhere in the Makefile to edit the other makefiles after download/extraction and before make? Feb 05 03:07:23 got it Feb 05 03:07:27 zsoc: yes, but don't :). it's a hack and i'm sorry I suggested it. the n.... you got it :) Feb 05 03:08:06 zsoc: the LDFLAGS method is significantly cleaner--i ended up using it b/c i guess when i tried setting the ldflags the other night i made a typo. sorry :) Feb 05 03:08:16 zsoc: but the -lz is still needed which is silly Feb 05 03:08:25 yeah, many agree Feb 05 03:09:22 I'm really enjoying learning about SDL Feb 05 03:09:49 of course, things will change completely when 1.3 is released Feb 05 03:10:30 I understand the whole software/hardware surface thing somewhat better now Feb 05 03:11:01 jacques: sdl is fun Feb 05 03:11:59 "People assume that because hardware buffers are based on hardware that programs that use them will be faster than programs that use software buffers. That assumption is often not true." Feb 05 03:12:04 that used to be me :-) Feb 05 03:12:11 was me until 2 days ago lol Feb 05 03:13:49 * rwhitby does a "make clobber all" in cross-compile.git on two different machines to see what is broken Feb 05 03:14:54 rwhitby: all of what i've seen broken so far from this side is libxml2's fault Feb 05 03:15:12 have you pushed the fix for that? Feb 05 03:16:19 rwhitby: no, im building it now. also glib-2.0 is broken and needs a "z" in the tar patch line Feb 05 03:16:31 i can actually push that Feb 05 03:17:00 n/m, someone just fixed it Feb 05 03:24:09 please strike all of my libxml2 struggles/comment of the last 15 minutes from the record. Feb 05 03:25:24 oil: in Preware, how easy would it be to continue loading the feeds even if there is an error during the update service method? Feb 05 03:25:49 that's a good idea Feb 05 03:26:24 show the error, and on OK continue loading the feeds. Feb 05 03:26:45 * rwhitby bbiab (lunch) Feb 05 03:27:47 rwhitby: why dont you just make a new udpate function Feb 05 03:28:28 start transitioning parts of java over to be more like it is in C Feb 05 03:28:33 s/is/will be/ Feb 05 03:28:34 PuffTheMagic_ meant: start transitioning parts of java over to be more like it will be in C Feb 05 03:29:45 rwhitby: http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/java/curl-java-0.2.1.tar.gz Feb 05 03:37:45 so, X, huh? how does it perform? Feb 05 03:38:24 destinal-wirc: like eyeballs Feb 05 03:38:46 quick, benchmark with glxgears Feb 05 03:39:01 destinal-wirc: hard to say, we're still fighting some key issues with rendering, etc, that make it so it only renders when minimized. Feb 05 03:39:02 no gl support atm Feb 05 03:39:05 zsoc: lol Feb 05 03:39:06 VincentLaw: no glx Feb 05 03:39:25 0fps from no glx sounds pretty god awful Feb 05 03:39:26 :p Feb 05 03:40:01 those googly eyes tho... Feb 05 03:40:03 zsoc: thanks again... i got to use it several timse today Feb 05 03:40:35 xenoph0be: working on building the framework to get it to build automagically, as well as new plugins Feb 05 03:40:49 sweetness Feb 05 03:41:19 zsoc: well rick will be happy since a real editor will be easy with x Feb 05 03:41:22 i did a bit more searching, and found that it will also make google voice work with emailed voicemail attachments Feb 05 03:41:32 xenoph0be: good to know :) Feb 05 03:41:38 hmmm ... /bin/bash: line 1: glib-mkenums: command not found Feb 05 03:41:39 since google voice uses the same GSM 6.10 codec Feb 05 03:42:28 I feel like this is a path issue.. Feb 05 03:42:30 but i dont have a voice account to test with Feb 05 03:42:43 xenoph0be: googlevoice just transcodes it anyway ;) Feb 05 03:42:46 yea Feb 05 03:43:02 well i mean to verify that what I found is true Feb 05 03:43:20 but you mean speach to text Feb 05 03:43:34 xenoph0be: I could test but don't know how to get the code going Feb 05 03:44:00 destinal: it was a very simple 2 library install... with a few symlinks Feb 05 03:44:05 I have gvoice Feb 05 03:44:24 now if we could get .eml attachements to open. Feb 05 03:44:27 :D Feb 05 03:44:45 s/attachements/attachments/ Feb 05 03:44:49 no? Feb 05 03:45:05 so arbitrary codecs are easy to associate with picket? Feb 05 03:45:08 guess i didnt do that right... Feb 05 03:45:08 picket? Feb 05 03:45:21 pick ER Feb 05 03:45:53 it was a gstreamer library, libgstgsm.so, that depended on libgsm.so Feb 05 03:45:55 stupid spelling correct Feb 05 03:46:34 dropped in the two compiled libraries, made symlinks, and did a gst-inspect to get it into gstreamer Feb 05 03:46:37 picker is a word, I think,but my pre disagrees Feb 05 03:47:04 then I had issues getting it to play, so I rebooted, but could probably just restarted a few services, but would have to have known which ones for sure Feb 05 03:47:43 it may have been a plugin tho requiring Luna restart Feb 05 03:48:10 not sure, or a restart of the audio services for the pre Feb 05 03:49:34 but my reason for the codec was to get the compressed wavs from my offices voicemail system to play straight from the email attachment Feb 05 03:49:42 which works smashingly Feb 05 03:51:01 xenoph0be: oh, i found out, it was MediaServer you had to restart Feb 05 03:51:43 xenoph0be: actually, you only have to kill it... restarts itself Feb 05 03:52:06 now if i can figure out why glib-2.0 builds without glib-mkenums.... might be the palm patch Feb 05 03:52:43 zsoc: sweet Feb 05 03:53:28 could someone with the internals PDK help me by seeing if ldsync builds correctly? http://lsyncd.googlecode.com/files/lsyncd-1.26.tar.gz Feb 05 03:53:43 im not on my main computer right now.. thanks :) Feb 05 03:55:20 random: not much to it, it should work Feb 05 03:56:49 Hey, So I saw that on universal search you can't put anything beneath twitter, does the same rule apply to not sticking anything above google? Feb 05 03:58:27 hello? Feb 05 03:59:48 I'm just lurking to soak up randomness, so I'm no help lol Feb 05 04:00:04 igobytony: me too mostly Feb 05 04:00:26 zsoc: ok, thanks :) Feb 05 04:00:30 haha, I figured I wasn't the only one out of 150 ppl Feb 05 04:01:15 igobytony: hey a lurker. talk more. Feb 05 04:01:31 thing is I'm not a huge fan of Google so I was trying to replace Google with Bing so I commented out the google code and put bing there instead Feb 05 04:01:37 zsoc: do you know if anyone has done any work to get .eml attachments to be viewable? Feb 05 04:01:37 LURKERS! COME FORTH! Feb 05 04:02:01 zsoc: they can't all come forth at once, we'd be flooded :) Feb 05 04:02:06 lol Feb 05 04:02:06 xenoph0be: that's not my thing :) Feb 05 04:02:22 zsoc: I am "un-lurking..." Feb 05 04:02:52 anyone know who I would PM that would know about the universal search stuff? Feb 05 04:02:53 excellent Feb 05 04:02:56 hrm... i've played around with the command-resource-handlers.json, but need a way to call the email viewing portion of the email app Feb 05 04:03:21 or an external viewer all together Feb 05 04:03:28 xenoph0be: check #webos? their might be an api for that floating around Feb 05 04:04:19 alrighty... internals... mainly for the hacking behind luna eh:D Feb 05 04:04:19 this might be a silly question, but what's keeping us from compiling on-device? Feb 05 04:04:21 hm... glib _builds_ the executable but doesn't install it anywhere... Feb 05 04:04:41 random: nothing, we do it all the time. it's just slow as hell Feb 05 04:04:54 * zsoc is willing to bet many have a debian chroot... Feb 05 04:05:18 random: the widk is just 1000 times more standardized, and sensical Feb 05 04:05:25 zsoc: first terminal build for ARM was built on a pre in debian chroot :) Feb 05 04:05:34 :> Feb 05 04:05:41 not the distributed one but testing etc Feb 05 04:06:55 the chatter in here seems much more lively than #webos... at least the few times i've lurked there Feb 05 04:07:08 er... well it's different Feb 05 04:07:12 there are app catalog devs in there Feb 05 04:07:14 * zsoc shudders Feb 05 04:07:27 lol Feb 05 04:16:37 so, cross-compile.git built fine on my ub9.10 box Feb 05 04:17:11 rwhitby: yep, everything's ironed out it seems Feb 05 04:17:41 rwhitby: except glib-2.0 doesn't install utilities anywhere Feb 05 04:17:50 dBsooner: wtb patch acceptance? :D Feb 05 04:20:11 curious thought: does anyone think it would be possible to move the top system bar (where the clock lives), to elsewhere, like the bottom, or on the sides (with proper orientation)? Feb 05 04:22:36 ./configure --prefix=${INSTALL_PREFIX} should be accurate, no? Feb 05 04:23:00 VincentLaw: it's possible to hide it Feb 05 04:24:18 I'm not interested in hiding it. I mean as a patch, could it be moved? Feb 05 04:24:29 jacques: ping Feb 05 04:25:02 is the position something controlled in its JS/HTML, or is that something luna manager is controlling and thus we can't play with it? Feb 05 04:25:12 zsoc: pong Feb 05 04:26:17 can someone look inside their /var/usr/palm/applications and tell me if they still see com.palm.app.pdfviewer? Feb 05 04:26:30 jacques: best way to integrate LDFLAGS into widk Makefiles? it doesn't play nice with ${SB2} (ie: trys to set outside of sb2 shell) Feb 05 04:28:22 jhojho: aye its there Feb 05 04:28:31 zsoc: I was doing LDFLAGS="..." sb2m ./configure --prefix=... Feb 05 04:29:09 VincentLaw it is possible. Feb 05 04:29:10 where sb2m is an alias : sb2m='sb2 -M /home/packages/palm/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7' Feb 05 04:29:24 jacques: hmm... seems backwards.. ill try it tho Feb 05 04:29:24 VincentLaw go look at the code for bar-controller in the framework folder Feb 05 04:29:46 so LDFLAGS="..." sb2 -M ... ./configure --prefix=... Feb 05 04:29:59 xenoph0be: okay. so i'm not the only one. Feb 05 04:30:02 yep, i dont know why it works tho, ty Feb 05 04:30:32 okay, then if it is possible, just one more even-more theoretical question: is it possible to add an API call, sort of like the one to go "full screen", to perform such a position change on the fly? The reason I'm thinking of it is for landscape applications. Feb 05 04:30:44 next, to install apps via cmd line. is the following sequence correct? ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install ? Feb 05 04:31:01 VincentLaw I see no reason why not. Feb 05 04:31:25 coolbeans. I might look into doing that then, if it's not too much effort Feb 05 04:31:32 trying to avoid use of webosqi. never used it. =) Feb 05 04:31:33 VincentLaw bar-controller is the mechanism I keep thinking of to create an "active home page." or "active desktop" Feb 05 04:31:35 zsoc: it's modifying the env od sb2, which passes it on to its children Feb 05 04:31:54 jacques: i see. ty master Feb 05 04:31:55 s/ob/of/ Feb 05 04:32:05 lol Feb 05 04:32:07 ah yeah, just making the bar controller larger when there's no active cards? Feb 05 04:32:35 a WHE should call no-one master Feb 05 04:32:35 can I talk this time? Feb 05 04:32:37 yay Feb 05 04:32:50 so i looked at the apex bootloader code, doesn't seem like it will be that hard to adapt... Feb 05 04:32:50 darn Feb 05 04:33:01 who turned the cryptk|work filter off? Feb 05 04:33:05 lol Feb 05 04:33:23 ~~~~ Feb 05 04:33:24 ARGH!!! STOP IT jacques!!! Feb 05 04:33:33 ah, he's awake after all Feb 05 04:34:19 cryptk|work_: that's good news Feb 05 04:35:17 seems like I will just need to manually specify alot of things in the config and makefiles..., but then I could add those specs into the files themselves to make building it for the pre really easy Feb 05 04:35:26 I am going to mess around with it mroe this weekend Feb 05 04:35:46 er... where are the build logs? Feb 05 04:47:13 zsoc: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/buildlogs/ Feb 05 04:47:22 dtzWill: er... i meant in the widk Feb 05 04:47:50 zsoc: ? when you build doesn't it print everything to the screen? Feb 05 04:48:04 well, most of it Feb 05 04:48:09 make |& tee build.log Feb 05 04:48:14 zsoc: oh, i didn't know about that. not sure then, sorry Feb 05 04:48:26 but when you get generic errors i was expecting more :p sorry i guess this is a gentoo thing in my head lol Feb 05 04:51:15 ah, i need gtk-doc Feb 05 04:51:32 i love generic errors in building programs that need utilities that they have no dependency for Feb 05 04:52:21 which is even stranger, because i turned off docs in configure... which i guess means install _less_ documentation, but i can't stop all of it heh Feb 05 04:54:33 it looks like palm's SDL patches refer to include files we don't have Feb 05 04:54:58 #include "hid/IncsPublic/HidLib.h" (for example) Feb 05 05:05:36 jacques: this is correct. palm's sdl patches fail the complete / corresponding test re: LGPL compliance Feb 05 05:06:01 jacques: would you mind requesting the missing files? Feb 05 05:06:52 jhojho: don't forget the postinst with IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT defined Feb 05 05:07:58 destinal-home: how do I request the files? Feb 05 05:08:17 rwhitby: ? Feb 05 05:09:10 15:00 jhojho: next, to install apps via cmd line. is the following sequence correct? ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install ? Feb 05 05:11:23 jacques: if you have time you could write up a list of the headers we don't have and send an email explaining and requesting these headers and any headers they include to opensourcequestions@palm.com . I suspect no matter what, in best case they may miss the ones included by includes and this may take multiple rounds to get right. worst case, they misunderstand LGPL and will refuse them as part of another project (which I' Feb 05 05:11:55 make sure to request them also under LGPL specifically Feb 05 05:12:06 "project (which I'" Feb 05 05:12:09 your message was cut off Feb 05 05:13:27 they ignored my email Feb 05 05:14:25 gak. wireless woes Feb 05 05:17:19 egaudet: in the past palm representatives have stated that they don't have to give out included headers under LGPL/GPL because LGPL is permissive. In fact, it's only permissive about applications or programs that link to the library not having to be GPL-compatibly licensed accompanying binaries. (but the source to the library itself and headers/makefiles/etc needed to build it must be distributed / offered with binaries of th Feb 05 05:18:24 Yea they have to give any part of the headers required to build Feb 05 05:18:33 I think the LGPL is quite clear about that Feb 05 05:19:10 egaudet: unionfs-fuse is yours? Feb 05 05:19:18 woo, gstreamer builds Feb 05 05:19:32 yea I pushed it Feb 05 05:19:42 is it broken? Feb 05 05:19:52 you guys do a great job Feb 05 05:20:00 egaudet: this is why we Palm needs to offer the piranha headers needed to build webkit / webcore also Feb 05 05:20:02 egaudet: please remove the stage-rootfs.mk line - that's only for staging libs from the doctor Feb 05 05:20:10 egaudet: which they're not happy with and have not done Feb 05 05:20:14 LittleCZR: sometimes we have no idea what we're doing Feb 05 05:20:48 * zsoc removes stage-rootfs from all his Makefiles.... Feb 05 05:20:51 no one saw that Feb 05 05:21:17 rwhitby: what were you saying about postinst? Feb 05 05:21:52 anybody here on smartflex 600? Feb 05 05:21:54 egaudet: I think we need to make a GPL/LGPL compliance scorecard page on the wiki Feb 05 05:22:10 egaudet: list everything that doesn't build due to missing headers Feb 05 05:22:31 they gave us lunaservice.h just to keep us busy lol Feb 05 05:23:54 is there a way to undo git add? Feb 05 05:23:56 LittleCZR most of us are very very very afraid of messing with reflex. Feb 05 05:24:08 LittleCZR which is why it's tagged as dangerous Feb 05 05:24:38 egaudet: it's possible that it's just confusion / miscommunication between the people in charge of answering open source related questions and the people that released the code .. it's possible the latter just missed things and the former haven't spoken with the latter.. just guessing Feb 05 05:24:46 wow, been using it for the past 3 months my self Feb 05 05:25:08 LittleCZR well, congrats. Feb 05 05:25:20 LittleCZR I'm not letting it anywhere near my pre. Feb 05 05:25:22 rick-home: er... not afraid so much as uninterested and doubting kernel support Feb 05 05:25:35 600mhz was interesting, because at that speed JS was actually measurably improved in speed. There was one JS benchmark that would actually time out and not finish at 500mhz, but would finish at 600mhz. Feb 05 05:25:39 rick-home: your pre already goes to 600mhz when you run app catalog sdl games Feb 05 05:25:45 this particularly sucks because I might want to build instrumented SDL libs Feb 05 05:25:45 but I cannot Feb 05 05:25:51 Uh, guys. PALM clocks the processor to 600 in games Feb 05 05:25:57 yea I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt destinal-home, I just wish we could speed it all up somehow Feb 05 05:26:03 jhojho: when you use ipkg on the command line to install a package, if it has a postinst and you don't run it correctly then it will not be installed correctly Feb 05 05:26:11 especially since geist, the kernal dev from palm engineering who hangs out in here sometimes has told us over and over that there is not kernal support Feb 05 05:26:28 rick-home: palm clocks the processor to 600 in games. :P Feb 05 05:26:32 destinal-home it's not the clock speed it's the kernel support of the reflex.... Feb 05 05:26:33 rwhitby: ah thanks. just checked. no postinst so i'm good =) Feb 05 05:27:27 maybe after a using smartflex 600 for a while my phone will explode Feb 05 05:27:27 rick-home: smartreflex is in the kernel that palm ships. no it's not supported/used by palm at this time Feb 05 05:27:47 * rick-home shrug Feb 05 05:28:01 there are some additional patches that may help things but not released yet Feb 05 05:28:05 I heard rumblings of it being incomplete / weird functional issues Feb 05 05:28:11 maybe it will make a black hole after the explosion Feb 05 05:28:14 clocking the proc to 600Mhz and smartreflex are not the same thing Feb 05 05:28:17 so the reflex patch though, it still clocked it up to 600mhz, it just didn't do anything else, right? cause that would be confusing after my benchmarking Feb 05 05:28:30 egaudet: most probably true. it's not well tested. Feb 05 05:29:17 jacques: exactly. it's possible to set the cpu speed to 600mhz without cpu-scaling or smartreflex Feb 05 05:29:22 oh, what rick-home said better Feb 05 05:29:52 smartreflex will cause a singularity event =) Feb 05 05:30:25 it has many many times already, but we are in a timeline which split off Feb 05 05:30:35 lol Feb 05 05:30:56 I have yet to see someone say which of the 3000 different cpu patches actually exactly matches what Palm does for SDL games. Feb 05 05:31:16 If someone can, then we may be able to put that patch in Preware. Feb 05 05:31:18 rwhitby: i don't believe any of them exactly, er... or all of them Feb 05 05:31:19 smartflex will cause a rip in the fabrick of this universe Feb 05 05:31:31 rwhitby: need git help Feb 05 05:31:41 ask a git Feb 05 05:31:57 rwhitby: I would hazard a simple if game (600mhz) else (500mhz) Feb 05 05:32:00 rwhitby: $HOME/.ssh/id_rsa.pub is the correct location for my key, no? Feb 05 05:32:09 zsoc: yes Feb 05 05:32:19 zsoc: no, that's your public key Feb 05 05:32:34 so unless *you're* hosting the server, that's the wrong file Feb 05 05:32:35 for said user. well the public key like rwhitby said Feb 05 05:32:45 got it Feb 05 05:33:12 rwhitby: they just write to a file in /sys - use the kernel cpufreq driver Feb 05 05:33:28 id_rsa.pub is the key you put on machines you want access to. Feb 05 05:33:47 id_rsa is your private key. dont share this =) Feb 05 05:33:50 rwhitby: the driver should be in ther kernel patch - heck it's the omap3 cpufreq driver Feb 05 05:33:57 rwhitby: "warning: You did not specify any refspecs to push, and the current remote has not configured any push refspecs. The default action in this case is to push all matching refspecs" Feb 05 05:34:23 zsoc: you need to modify .git/config probably. Feb 05 05:34:32 rwhitby: and it's lunasysmgr which does the writing to change freq Feb 05 05:34:44 jacques: ie: "turbo" mode Feb 05 05:35:06 git remote add origin Feb 05 05:35:13 egaudet: ty Feb 05 05:35:17 zsoc: yep Feb 05 05:35:39 I would still like a way to disable / have greater control over it Feb 05 05:35:47 turbo mode makes me think of knight rider Feb 05 05:36:02 not all SDL apps need to run at 600MHz after all Feb 05 05:36:47 jacques: maybe palm can make it an option that the app can pass on to lunasysmgr later. optin in appinfo.json? Feb 05 05:37:07 jhojho: that would be pretty nice Feb 05 05:37:20 hi again.. i have another question jaja.. Feb 05 05:37:28 speed: (normal|turbo) Feb 05 05:38:01 mm reminds of the 486.... Feb 05 05:38:04 I wonder if that holds for the pixi too. the cpu speed change that is. Feb 05 05:38:20 doubt it, different cpu, and doesn't support type: game Feb 05 05:38:27 hmmm, what's a hidden symbol in a shared lib? I really want to call one Feb 05 05:38:47 I mean what are the implications of it being hidden, other than I can't reference it (apparently) Feb 05 05:38:50 if i want to execute luna send commands through lighttpd with php.. would executing them directly (as in the gps example in the wiki entry) become a security hole? Feb 05 05:39:49 php is a security hole. Feb 05 05:39:53 *ducks* Feb 05 05:40:54 random: are they using exec() or similar? if so I'd say that's a security hole in general, just because it's bad practice >.> Feb 05 05:43:10 VincentLaw: they use this.. &1 | cut -d, -f4,5 | sed -r 's/[^-\.0-9,]//g'`; ?> Feb 05 05:43:19 is there any good docs on pixi's processor? Feb 05 05:43:38 qualcomms site isn't developer friendly Feb 05 05:45:18 random: you can probably inject a in there ... Feb 05 05:45:54 ali1: unless you're wanting to buy 100K units, you won't find doco Feb 05 05:46:08 disappointing. Feb 05 05:47:27 hopefully that android phone with the same proc will have some good stuff Feb 05 05:48:08 hope springs eternal Feb 05 05:48:25 random: that's not a command, thats a variable definition lol Feb 05 05:48:36 VincentLaw: backticks Feb 05 05:48:53 huh? oh Feb 05 05:48:59 * VincentLaw changes font Feb 05 05:50:36 VincentLaw: haha i thought i never called it a command, but re-reading i realized i did.. sorry Feb 05 05:50:53 no it is Feb 05 05:51:36 ` ` backticks is short form for shell_exec() Feb 05 05:51:50 I didn't see it on the crappy font I was using, looked like single quotes :p Feb 05 05:52:09 rwhitby, lol Feb 05 06:02:01 was checking into latest ubuntu Upstart /etc/event.d... is up to 0.6.5, webos only has 0.3.8 Feb 05 06:02:51 there are some new features coming to do time based (replace cron, which is an issue in webos) and a feature i'm really looking for, to start/stop based on file/dir changes Feb 05 06:03:58 rwhitby, you there? Feb 05 06:04:06 xorg: yep Feb 05 06:04:56 am curious about the idea of having a separt upstart instance, that uses our own /etc/webos-internals.event.d kind of thing Feb 05 06:05:36 with latest version of upstart... palm's upstart would still be independent and isolated Feb 05 06:06:42 the newer upstart will be doing cron type stuff (issue on webos) and trigger stuff on file/dir changes, would be great to get that into webos. Feb 05 06:07:21 http://omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project Feb 05 06:07:26 just throwing that out there Feb 05 06:09:53 xorg: put upstart in optware Feb 05 06:10:42 would have to be modified to have its own /etc/event.d... i'd think thats about it. Feb 05 06:12:07 yep, use /opt/etc/event.d/... Feb 05 06:12:25 * rwhitby bbl Feb 05 06:12:40 off to bed, just throwing it out there Feb 05 07:03:31 hmm, that's interesting, documentserver is available in opensource.palm.com containing lunaservice headers dated 9/9/2009 .. just a bit before greg got the headers officially in seperate request? Feb 05 10:09:09 good morning Feb 05 10:16:49 hm. Feb 05 10:16:57 re Feb 05 10:17:00 what's the command line to get all installed packages? I remember it should be something like "ipkg -o /path/to/somwhere list_installed" but i don't remember anymore. searching webos-internals.org doesn't give me a correct solution Feb 05 10:55:38 sui: ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps list_installed Feb 05 10:56:51 rwhitby: thanks. i will note it on a cheat sheet :) Feb 05 10:57:51 can i add my own nameservers to /etc/resolv.conf or is there another file on the pre? Feb 05 11:02:07 there's actually a Palm service you can call to do it Feb 05 11:02:24 why do you want to do it manually? Feb 05 11:02:35 (i.e. why not use the webOS interfaces to do it) Feb 05 11:03:23 be careful not to assign nameservers too far away from you or your web experience will slow down... CDNs use your nameserver to determine what city you're in, and then web pages come from servers nearest to where they think you are (by dns) Feb 05 11:03:34 rwhitby: hm. i'm used to set nameservers manually. In this case i need it to get the last steps of my openvpn config up and running Feb 05 11:04:33 sui: you want to read http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Network_Management Feb 05 11:05:04 rwhitby: right. i want to read this document Feb 05 11:05:32 and then work out how to get openvpn to do all that stuff automatically Feb 05 11:05:47 so it then works for everyone, not just yourself. Feb 05 11:05:57 rwhitby: it's only for me! Feb 05 11:06:46 rwhitby: it's to connect to my company when not at home Feb 05 11:07:19 sui: yes, but your company's openvpn server will send the dns details, and openvpn can set them automatically Feb 05 11:07:35 then it will work automatically for all who connect to their own servers Feb 05 11:09:06 there are just a few people with ovpn. afaicr out ovpn server does not send dns details Feb 05 11:10:08 mine does Feb 05 11:10:41 I spent the effort to get openvpn to build and install on the Pre. I was hoping you would take the effort to get DNS working in the default configuration. Feb 05 11:11:09 hi Feb 05 11:11:27 i have two new idears for apps Feb 05 11:11:53 first: a unpacker for .rar and .7z files Feb 05 11:12:38 second: a app for sharing files over bluetoth between two webos devices Feb 05 11:13:13 i hope this is not impossible, because this apps would be usefull. Feb 05 11:13:41 excellent ideas. when do you think you will have them finished? Feb 05 11:16:38 i suppose this means "never" Feb 05 11:26:03 the first idea should be coming soon, but I am not allowed to disclose any real details... Feb 05 11:27:22 rwhitby: I think sometimes people don't realize that webos-internals is not a dump site for all of your ideas, lol... however it is a gathering site for the knowledge for you to make your ideas work... Feb 05 11:28:38 cryptk|work: ideas are good, but in this channel they should be accompanied by a willingness to progress the ideas forward too. Feb 05 11:29:00 indeed, that is what I meant by the last part of my idea Feb 05 11:29:38 I think it would even be appropriate to say "I have this great idea, here are the details of how it should work, here is what I have done so far... I lack the knowledge to finish it though, anyone care to take over" Feb 05 11:30:23 kind of like my dual booting idea... I am leaning on the people that have the knowledge to fill in the gaps that I have in order to make it work. Feb 05 11:30:36 however the people I am leaning on are not regulars in this channel... Feb 05 12:11:57 rod: I would love to help document at least. If you have a spare moment will you review page DNS and fire corrections/ suggestions to me Feb 05 12:12:09 I have some time this weekend and will fix it up Feb 05 12:13:31 go easy on me, it's only 7am here in Boston :) Feb 05 12:20:05 FreeTim: if you don't mind, I can have a look at it also... Feb 05 12:22:37 i read http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Network_Management but i don't realize what to do with those informations. is there any more to read with dbus and palms own services? how can i use internal services to connect to an openvpn server? do i need an own config-file (vpn-up)? how can i specify my key-file? Feb 05 12:25:39 cryptk: of course Feb 05 12:25:53 I will check it out once I get home from work Feb 05 12:29:18 it looks like, the Palm will use a name resolver differently depending on how it's connecting (Wifi, for example, or else using evd0 network) Feb 05 12:29:20 FreeTim: which page? Feb 05 12:29:40 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/DNS Feb 05 12:30:02 sui: you will need your own config file for openvpn, but what I'm talking about is making the vpn-up file automatically set the DNS by calling luna-send Feb 05 12:31:11 FreeTim: looks good Feb 05 12:31:28 FreeTim: is the "networkScope": "wan" the part that tells webos wether the entry is for wifi or evdo? Feb 05 12:31:40 and yes, it looks great FreeTim Feb 05 12:32:09 FreeTim: I have a feeling that the Legacy Linux Method would get overwritten every time one of your network interfaces went up or down Feb 05 12:32:16 rwhitby: i try to understand how to set up my vpn config using luna-send and dbus Feb 05 12:32:46 Thanks all. Rod: Yeah me too. I have to test if that is true, and add corrections Feb 05 12:33:57 sui: note that I'm not saying you need to do that all by yourself. What I'm saying is that you and FreeTim and I (and probably others) are all interested in working out how best to set DNS on a Pre so that it is persistent across interface changes, so we should all work on that problem rather than just doing the Legacy Linux Method individually. Feb 05 12:34:55 I am interested also, but I have my project already... Feb 05 12:35:13 I would love to be able to VPN into my home network... Feb 05 12:35:30 damn near everything electronic in my apartment is controlled from my desktop... Feb 05 12:35:42 now if I can find a way to start the microwave... Feb 05 12:35:50 * rwhitby is currently playing with optware self-hosting on a Synology DS1010+ that he got as a freebie from Synology. Feb 05 12:36:45 it's a dual-core atom device, which is nice cause it should just run normal x86 stuff. Feb 05 12:36:54 rwhitby: i understand this. it would be nice to get a patch or something else which integrates openvpn-config to the graphical network settings. Feb 05 12:37:13 sui: look for pre-openvpn - the author of that is interested Feb 05 12:37:52 when I get to work, I have a way to test which DNS is in use for lookups, so I'll run some tests when on wifi, and when on evd0 and try to see if the resolver is being changed and I'll do so with and without the custom resolv.configuration entries Feb 05 12:38:08 rwhitby: you mean this page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenVPN_for_Palm_Pre ? Feb 05 12:39:04 http://gitorious.org/pre-openvpn Feb 05 12:40:18 rwhitby: ok, will take a look Feb 05 12:40:29 I note in discussion , WebOS has a dizzying array of resolv.conf files (/etc, /tmp, /var/run, /var/run/ppp) depending on network... interesting Feb 05 12:40:43 sui: it's just a front-end, it has no connection to a back-end Feb 05 12:40:56 FreeTim: yeah, it's quite circuitous Feb 05 12:41:12 I love this community... everyone knows a diamond of detail Feb 05 12:42:06 if you add us all together, we can figure out anything, lol Feb 05 12:42:26 all it takes is someone to take charge of an idea, then lean on everyone else as needed Feb 05 12:45:02 btw, my end goal is getting this working on the pre... Feb 05 12:45:02 http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile Feb 05 12:45:10 for anyone that hasn't checked it out... Feb 05 12:45:37 I just realized I had never mentioned my inspiration for all of my bootloader rambling as of late Feb 05 12:48:46 Was it the X-Windows screen shot? Feb 05 12:52:36 no, someone showed me the (now unsupported) Ubuntu MID Feb 05 12:52:53 ubuntu was working on a Mobile Internet Device OS to run on ARM Feb 05 12:53:06 they stopped for some reason, but I am curious if I can make it run on the pre Feb 05 12:53:29 that and it will be a good way for me to learn more about bootloaders Feb 05 12:53:50 and expand on my small amount of ARM ASM knowledge Feb 05 12:56:13 ahh, inner geekiness. Give me a ldr and ldmia to add, any day :) Feb 05 12:56:34