**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 08 02:59:57 2010 Feb 08 03:08:45 dtzWill here's the matching shortt link http://bit.ly/dl29Uw Feb 08 03:09:08 oh someone did that already Feb 08 03:09:10 opoops Feb 08 03:09:14 rick-home: ahh! i'm sorry for the long link everyone :( Feb 08 03:09:18 rick-home: haha yeah they did :) Feb 08 03:09:24 hehe Feb 08 03:32:43 what's new on the wipk apps stuff dtzWill ???? Feb 08 03:33:17 rick-home: nothing very exciting, been busy with other things lately, unfortunately :) Feb 08 03:33:24 sad Feb 08 03:33:32 rick-home: last thing I played with is the X stuff, and trying to get that working better, but.. that was a bit back Feb 08 03:33:41 rick-home: sorry you didn't come back from being away with more goodies :) Feb 08 03:33:51 I spent some time trying to figure out how to get dosbox to actually pay attention to the shift key.... Feb 08 03:34:10 and failed utterly. the keybindings stuff in there just confused the crap out of me. Feb 08 03:34:18 and I decided that I should stick with what I'm good at. Feb 08 03:34:50 the fact that X ran at all is so uttery amazing. Feb 08 03:35:05 Has anyone shown an instance of X running on an android or Iphone that you know of? Feb 08 03:35:32 rick-home: nope. although not super sure why? heh. Feb 08 03:36:11 rick-home: I'm not completely sure why we couldn't long term eventually put things in the catalog with X support.... ship all the libs, etc. not the prettiest, and we'll see what their limitations are, but... that could be pretty sweet. Feb 08 03:36:15 (same as the evas stuff, etc) Feb 08 03:36:37 gotta love their choice of supporting sdl/gl instead of some crazy special thing they made up Feb 08 03:36:49 X? Feb 08 03:37:16 ~X Feb 08 03:37:24 ~X11 Feb 08 03:37:25 extra, extra, read all about it, x11 is a protocol used by X servers and clients X11 stands for the eleventh version of the X window system. Feb 08 03:37:44 ~xorg Feb 08 03:37:45 xorg is, like, The X.Org Foundation, the worldwide consortium empowered with the stewardship and collaborative development of the X Window System technology and standards. http://X.org/ Feb 08 03:38:09 Woah, that infobot is cool. I've never seen anything like that before Feb 08 03:38:20 ~infobot Feb 08 03:38:21 rumour has it, infobot is The coolest Feb 08 03:39:01 gollyzila: http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/8626214289 Feb 08 03:39:02 oh Feb 08 03:39:15 gollyzila: http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/8626214289 was what we were talking about. Feb 08 03:39:45 gollyzila: that screenie is just the beginning; less technically that what infobot is giving you, X is how pretty much all/most linux graphical stuff is done (for the desktop) Feb 08 03:39:57 gollyzila: so proper support really would make for some cool times Feb 08 03:40:27 Cool Feb 08 03:42:06 dtzWill: in some ways thats debatable too Feb 08 03:42:20 swishy: ? Feb 08 03:42:24 swishy: which is debatable? Feb 08 03:52:31 dtzWill: having X on pre also brings along the desktop baggage and issues legacy linux has always had too :) Feb 08 03:53:21 swishy: that's true. but for example the n900/maemo doesn't seem particularly limited, does it? that said x on top of sdl through luna/in a card isn't the prettiest solution Feb 08 03:53:33 swishy: anyway i still argue it would be _cool_ ;) Feb 08 03:55:01 dtzWill: yeah true... I still see the way webOS has been done out of the box makes alot of sense going forward and kinda gives an opertunity to remove alot of history Feb 08 03:58:24 oil: ping Feb 08 03:58:30 dtzWill: you do of course relise that someone is going to end up rolling up qemu/winlib and creating an office installer for pre and we'll get to enjoy the rantings on the internets about the pre being slow ;) Feb 08 03:58:32 Templarian: ping Feb 08 03:58:52 (no) Feb 08 03:59:07 [connection rejected by host] Feb 08 03:59:15 lol Feb 08 03:59:40 Templarian: can you make a Preware icon for me? Feb 08 03:59:57 you know.. where you all take the standard icon and make it a "patch" icon Feb 08 04:00:48 dBsooner: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Icons image overlays are hosted here. I don't do that. Feb 08 04:01:35 Templarian: huh?/ Feb 08 04:01:37 oil: help dBsooner. Feb 08 04:01:52 (I didn't make those ones oil did he must have forgot a google maps one) Feb 08 04:02:16 nah, he makes them as I bring them up to him Feb 08 04:02:41 The superbowl was a great success Feb 08 04:07:26 egaudet: except The Who sucked Feb 08 04:08:24 yea halftime show was lame Feb 08 04:09:10 but I got to see the Manning face, the choker choked and the only team I could root for after the Patriots lost won it all. Good for brees, good for payton. And manning.. ahhahaha CHOKE Feb 08 04:09:24 damn, they're like 1,000 years old Feb 08 04:23:37 hola WHE's Feb 08 04:56:52 I don't really watch football but that was a good game Feb 08 04:57:09 as in you really couldn't tell who was going to win until the last 5 minutes with that interception Feb 08 05:01:48 yeah, I thought the colts were going to win with that drive. Feb 08 05:02:06 But the commercials weren't that great this year. Feb 08 05:02:57 Yeah some of the commercials were lacking polish for the superbowl, basically they spent all their money n the spot and very little on the actual content ;) Feb 08 05:09:24 brett farve 2020 commercial was probably the best Feb 08 05:11:50 well... there was the megan fox commercial... Feb 08 05:11:52 lol Feb 08 05:11:56 that one was good Feb 08 05:12:04 if for no other reason than megan fox... Feb 08 05:18:09 hey guys Feb 08 05:18:20 his there an automated installer for novacom for windows 7 x64 tyet? Feb 08 05:19:15 I tried this tutorial" http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Novacom_with_Windows_7 and it didn't seem to work.. novacom is not showin up in add/remove and webosdoctor still tries to install it Feb 08 05:19:55 I haven't heard anything about it, but I don't use win7 Feb 08 05:24:37 destinal-wirc: sup bud ? Feb 08 05:28:17 destinal: this weekend has been pretty nuts, but I'm free for a bit if you need me Feb 08 05:28:55 hey, would it be possible to put an option in preware's application menu to restart java/luna? in case you don't restart them during a service/patch install? just think it'd be handy Feb 08 05:30:19 VincentLaw: it's called luna Feb 08 05:30:39 ...that's what I said? Feb 08 05:30:46 java and/or luna Feb 08 05:31:03 you can do both Feb 08 05:31:39 I know, I just think it'd be handy to have in preware's app menu since it lets you select "later" in the first place Feb 08 05:32:50 it's there bus called luna manager Feb 08 05:33:03 bus = bud Feb 08 05:33:56 ...? Feb 08 05:34:40 you can restart luna or java Feb 08 05:34:42 luna manager is a separate application Feb 08 05:35:24 maybe I'm not understanding Feb 08 05:35:47 I want a button in the app menu of preware to do what luna manager does as a separate app. so that: Feb 08 05:35:55 A. don't need luna manager. B. Can do it all from preware Feb 08 05:36:08 it's just an idea anyway >.> Feb 08 05:36:20 it just makes sense since preware handles everything else involving that area Feb 08 05:36:23 but I believe you said you want a app to restart Feb 08 05:36:40 no... I never said that Feb 08 05:37:42 Ack Feb 08 05:38:28 VincentLaw: Feb 08 05:43:22 PuffTheMagic_? Feb 08 05:45:33 hey, would it be possible to put an option in preware's application menu to restart java/luna? in case you don't restart them during a service/patch install? just think it'd be handy Feb 08 05:48:24 hey guys is full erase sufficient in a fresh OS or is a doctor needed? Feb 08 05:48:46 hape: your stuff is done. Feb 08 05:49:17 VincentLaw: Your Pandora is on hold till I figure out the best way to handle the recreation of carrier specific packages. Feb 08 05:49:23 firestrider you have to do a full erase PLUS a doctor Feb 08 05:49:44 the full erase clears out all YOUR stuff, the doctor drops in a fresh os. Feb 08 05:49:56 Don't log in to palm profile after the full erase? Feb 08 05:50:04 I can't seem to get doctor to run on windows 7 x64 Feb 08 05:50:08 firestrider -- right Feb 08 05:50:19 firestrider: runs just fine on my win 7 x64 Feb 08 05:50:23 firestrider that's a problem -- the doctor ALWAYS tries to install novacom Feb 08 05:50:30 and there's no way to avoid it's trying Feb 08 05:50:37 in fact every doctor I have run (which is literally hundreds) have all run just fine Feb 08 05:50:50 wow Feb 08 05:50:54 on 64 bit windows dBsooner ???? Feb 08 05:50:58 nod Feb 08 05:51:03 really? wow. Feb 08 05:51:08 sup rick-home Feb 08 05:51:11 well, learn something new... Feb 08 05:51:14 Keeps disconnecting at 6% Feb 08 05:51:37 ahhhh that's something else. Feb 08 05:51:42 uhhhhh...... Feb 08 05:51:45 firestrider lucky 3 % Feb 08 05:51:54 tries to remember..... Feb 08 05:51:56 (Operating system) Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, version 6.1.7600 (65 processes running, 1.3GB free RAM, installed 11w 5d 3h 43m 38s ago, 1d 8h 11m 3s uptime, 6d 7h 28m 53s uptime record) Feb 08 05:52:11 firestrider is that AFTER a full erase? Feb 08 05:52:19 ^^ see Feb 08 05:52:20 yes Feb 08 05:52:23 dBsooner, were on earth did you get that from?? Feb 08 05:52:25 hey rick Feb 08 05:52:32 swishy: what? Feb 08 05:52:41 dBsooner, the above output Feb 08 05:52:48 * dBsooner ( NoNameScript 4.22 :: by greeny & mute :: www.nnscript.com :: www.esnation.com ) Feb 08 05:52:50 u hear from kayck Feb 08 05:53:06 i gots lots more of outputs.. but I won't share. Feb 08 05:53:33 (CPU 1) AMD Turion™ 64 X2 Mobile Technology TL-60 (512KB L2 Cache, Socket M2/S1G1) @ 2000MHz (200MHz FSB), 0% load Feb 08 05:53:44 (RAM module 1) 1GB, form factor: DIMM, type: DDR (RAM module 2) 2GB, form factor: DIMM, type: DDR Feb 08 05:53:52 lol dBsooner Feb 08 05:53:56 firestrider ok, did you do the battery out usb mode doctor? Feb 08 05:54:05 did u get my tweet Feb 08 05:54:18 dBsooner, lol Feb 08 05:54:33 mobgod which tweet? Feb 08 05:54:41 look Feb 08 05:54:44 rick-home, my battery is installed in the phone right now... i can try it without battery Feb 08 05:54:45 blah Feb 08 05:54:47 im lazy Feb 08 05:54:48 sorry read Feb 08 05:55:01 firestrider here's the process Feb 08 05:55:12 dBsooner, only issue I have on win7 is for some reason it see's 16GB ram of which 2gb is usable... Feb 08 05:55:40 pull the battery -- hold the VOLUME UP BUTTON UP -- plug in the USB cable -- DO NOT LET GO OF THE UP BUTTON -- put the battery back in -- Let go Feb 08 05:55:41 swishy dowz sucks Feb 08 05:55:46 NOW you should be able to doctor Feb 08 05:56:06 mobgod, one day youll relise everything sucks somewhere and one uses what is required when nessesary Feb 08 05:56:26 * swishy was windows free since ~ 2000, only installed win7 @ home for work foo Feb 08 05:56:26 rick-home: don't forget to do a "net stop novacomd" Feb 08 05:56:29 swishy i underand Feb 08 05:56:30 and "net start novacomd" Feb 08 05:56:32 just for fun Feb 08 05:57:04 btw dan u can call me sav Feb 08 05:57:06 mobgod, funny thing is @ work in a windows env I thought switching back to win7 would make life easier, but it hasnt really... Feb 08 05:57:06 lol Feb 08 05:57:20 lol Feb 08 05:57:38 win 7 = mem hog Feb 08 05:57:53 big time Feb 08 05:57:54 mobgod, not too bad actually Feb 08 05:57:59 mobgod, far better than vista Feb 08 05:58:18 you really notice the diff running under a vm Feb 08 05:58:39 but natively doesnt feel much diff to fedora Feb 08 05:58:55 swishy i have running a vista and * nix right now Feb 08 05:59:34 sory i'm running *** Feb 08 05:59:42 :) Feb 08 05:59:43 dam keyboard Feb 08 05:59:43 woot thanks rick-home Feb 08 05:59:47 got past 6% Feb 08 06:00:24 arrow with chip on pre screen now Feb 08 06:00:25 mobgod: no.. vista = mem hog Feb 08 06:00:31 mobgod: 7 = not so bad. Feb 08 06:00:38 noway dBsooner Feb 08 06:00:50 Seriously. I have used both. 7 is far better than vista. Feb 08 06:00:52 wellllll Feb 08 06:01:29 let me say depends on tweaks sorry dBsooner patches lol Feb 08 06:01:48 rick-home: the trick to win 7 x64 flashing is to ALWAYS put the phone into bootloader mode prior to starting the process. Feb 08 06:02:04 In fact, I would say that should be the case for all doctoring. Feb 08 06:02:14 shit Feb 08 06:02:15 My windows 7 is utilizing 1237 mb used, 157 mb modified, 1037 mb standby RAM Feb 08 06:02:21 Palm doctor doesn't always get that tellbootie string right. Feb 08 06:02:53 firestrider u think thats good Feb 08 06:03:05 38mb hardware reserved 1648 free Feb 08 06:03:07 I got 1.3 gb cached, 1.3 gb avail Feb 08 06:03:11 no just saying to compare Feb 08 06:03:28 ok firestrider its crazy Feb 08 06:03:57 almost 1.5 gigs of mem used Feb 08 06:03:58 dBsooner, indeed Feb 08 06:04:00 for what Feb 08 06:04:21 most of my ram is cached Feb 08 06:04:25 and used by firefox Feb 08 06:04:31 dBsooner please look @ ur tweets when u get time Feb 08 06:04:37 firestrider, the way windows presents ram utilisation is rather misleading too Feb 08 06:04:56 a smidge for Outlook (since it's a exchange connection to a mailbox that is over 1G) Feb 08 06:05:11 Im looking at the physical memory graph in resource monitor Feb 08 06:05:32 LOL Feb 08 06:05:33 mobgod: where can I get said flash? ;) Feb 08 06:05:36 firestrider, yeah using the default MS tools you get presented with a load of crap essentially :) Feb 08 06:06:03 dBsooner i have flash now Feb 08 06:06:11 avail from AC? Feb 08 06:06:15 SUCKS Feb 08 06:06:21 figures Feb 08 06:06:41 needs work Feb 08 06:08:01 wow the old lady tole me if i dont get off the puter no butt for me Feb 08 06:08:03 Is there some tool like resource monitor or event viewer or device manager in linux Feb 08 06:08:33 firestrider i would love to help but im sure someone will Feb 08 06:09:12 guys have a good one will be back Feb 08 06:09:18 love ya all Feb 08 06:10:16 firestrider, was trying to find the link regrading such on the internets but cant find it.. Feb 08 06:10:42 firestrider, the mozilla crew had a well written document about windows mem management and how it reports mem usage etc Feb 08 06:11:19 well as long as programs are performant I don't really care about mem usage Feb 08 06:11:31 as long as it doesn't start disk swapping Feb 08 06:11:37 :) Feb 08 06:13:00 firestrider before i leave u i go this for ya Feb 08 06:13:12 http://tinyurl.com/y9pyp57 Feb 08 06:13:22 i love it Feb 08 06:13:47 Lol, Feb 08 06:13:54 That was a bad search Feb 08 06:14:47 lol Feb 08 06:15:00 ok my old lady is bugging Feb 08 06:15:46 but i can tell u one thing before i go that there was more than one person that clicked on that link lmfao Feb 08 06:33:05 dBsooner: my patch may not be carrier specific, I just haven't had the opportunity to test it elsewhere Feb 08 06:33:18 assuming the rest of the world is running 1.0.0 of pandora it should be universal Feb 08 06:34:28 VincentLaw: it is Feb 08 06:34:37 VincentLaw: pandora is not included in other carriers Feb 08 06:34:55 VincentLaw: and pandora is not part of the stock webos Feb 08 06:35:00 oh you're right, forgot, pandora is us-only Feb 08 06:35:01 dur Feb 08 06:35:10 :) Feb 08 06:35:26 so until egaudet and I figure out a way to regenerate carrier specific patches, it's on hold. Feb 08 06:35:28 we'll get there. Feb 08 06:35:46 well Feb 08 06:35:54 FYI, there's already a pandora patch in preware :p Feb 08 06:36:15 lol Feb 08 06:36:17 I know Feb 08 06:36:30 that was before egaudet made me auto-regenerate all patches Feb 08 06:36:44 i now have to apply all submitted patch files to a stock os Feb 08 06:36:52 lawl. so it basically snuck in there :p Feb 08 06:37:02 and do a 'git add . ; git diff --cached -b >> file.patch' Feb 08 06:37:12 no, it's been there for a LONG time Feb 08 06:37:26 it was one of the first patches Feb 08 06:37:32 oh, huh Feb 08 06:37:41 but anyway, we'll get to it. Feb 08 06:37:44 I need sleep first. Feb 08 06:37:45 well that's fine, thanks for updating me Feb 08 06:37:51 keep up the good work :D Feb 08 06:37:52 i'll get it soon. Feb 08 06:47:50 rwhitby: feel free to retweet Feb 08 06:47:54 i'm off to bed Feb 08 06:47:57 night ya'll Feb 08 06:49:52 night :p Feb 08 06:52:22 lol Feb 08 07:01:44 sleepytime, night Feb 08 07:03:59 * sslow is now away - Reason : bed time Feb 08 07:23:13 mdklein_: doh, looks like I missed you again Feb 08 07:23:56 mdklein_: maybe tomorrow :) Feb 08 08:38:00 boo Feb 08 09:46:06 sup ppl? Feb 08 11:28:05 any german language users in the channel ready to test a German Preware ? Feb 08 11:36:41 * rwhitby bbt Feb 08 11:42:33 jet Feb 08 11:42:51 rwhitby: Ja Hier ;-) Feb 08 11:43:10 how doI get it? Feb 08 15:11:27 hi Feb 08 15:53:52 hello Feb 08 15:54:10 any idea why my preware wont load? its at the feed stage fr 7 minutes now i havent opened it for a week Feb 08 16:02:44 it ws optware i updated now nvm Feb 08 16:19:33 i had that happen over teh weekend, it just hung forever during loading. turns out it got interrupted nad left in a bad state, a restart took care of it Feb 08 16:24:55 wow. quiet this morning. Hangovers? Feb 08 16:25:17 not I Feb 08 16:25:48 just busy wrapping my head around stupid math problems Feb 08 16:25:52 Rick_work: that's what I was thinking Feb 08 16:26:01 sort of ... and I don't even drink Feb 08 16:26:16 trying to come up with the best way to add 2 numbers together by each digit individually Feb 08 16:26:32 ares is neat. It's a very different way to write a webos app, but it's neat. Feb 08 16:26:33 (for an incrementing counter) Feb 08 16:26:55 VincentLaw -- I don't understand what you're trying to do..... Feb 08 16:27:05 Rick_work: I can't make my brain work with it, looking forward to your book :D Feb 08 16:27:11 i'm just sitting here at work, utterly unmotivated to start doing _anything_ Feb 08 16:27:42 sugardave I may test a chapter on you then. Feb 08 16:27:47 cool Feb 08 16:27:50 I'm down for that Feb 08 16:27:53 Rick_work: take two numbers, say 12345 and 5000. I want to add them together, but I want to do it per digit, so that I can visually "count up" to the final total Feb 08 16:28:13 * xcomp decides to start out by trying to figure out unrealicd Feb 08 16:28:19 *unrealircd Feb 08 16:28:38 VincentLaw: 5000 + (loop 1 to 12345); refresh; delay; repeat Feb 08 16:29:01 sugardave: yes, but also, i want to start at the hundreds digit Feb 08 16:29:04 so it counts faster :p Feb 08 16:29:16 once there are no more hundreds, go to tens, then ones. Feb 08 16:29:16 loop 100 + 12345/100 Feb 08 16:29:22 oh wait Feb 08 16:29:22 no Feb 08 16:29:25 that won't work Feb 08 16:29:26 :D Feb 08 16:29:40 mostly its what I just said that makes this a lot harder :p Feb 08 16:29:48 yeah Feb 08 16:29:49 if it was just the ones it would be easy, but it'd also take a /long time/ Feb 08 16:29:54 VincentLaw so assume that your "adding on" number is in variable num2 and your "add it to" number is in num1 Feb 08 16:30:17 you will have to preprocess and know how many 100s you're going to have, how many 10s, etc. Feb 08 16:30:35 so, hundreds = num2 % 100 Feb 08 16:30:47 remander2 = num2 - hundreds Feb 08 16:31:02 tens = remander2 % 10 Feb 08 16:31:08 ah I see where you're going with that Feb 08 16:31:14 ones = remainder2 - 10 Feb 08 16:31:16 now Feb 08 16:31:53 loop1 num1 + hundreds Feb 08 16:32:02 loop2 num1 + tens Feb 08 16:32:10 loop3 num1 + ones Feb 08 16:32:24 assuming you're updating num1 or, you can use a result variable. Feb 08 16:32:31 yeah thanks Feb 08 16:32:35 Modular arithmatic is one of my favorite things. Feb 08 16:32:47 the % is powerful. Feb 08 16:35:30 ~seen debilater Feb 08 16:35:31 debilater <~scip@k2.daemon.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 19h 18m 47s ago, saying: 'err javascript'. Feb 08 16:38:56 one thing about it sugardave you sure end up with a LOT less code for widgets and stuff, 'cause it's all in the chrome file. Feb 08 16:40:25 Rick_work: yeah, that might help me out quite a bit Feb 08 16:41:42 I definitely enjoyed using it to quickly design a prototype UI, but the I always go back to construct them by hand Feb 08 16:41:56 why? Feb 08 16:45:45 I think it was because the first time I tried to write code in Ares I was totally lost...then when I tried to dissect my ipk and use that source in my IDE, I was still lost Feb 08 16:45:58 but that was WAY early in the game Feb 08 16:46:03 I haven't looked at Ares in a while Feb 08 16:46:55 wow, raining hard here all of a sudden Feb 08 16:48:29 ahhh yeah, I don't reccomend that. if you're going to do something in ares, just do it in ares, if for no other reason than that the veritcal and horizontal layout widgets screw up your stuff otherwise. Feb 08 16:50:00 I need to go look at it again...see if I can't get an 'ah-HA' moment Feb 08 16:52:29 lemme get a few pages of this written and I'll pass them to you and see if we cah aha you Feb 08 16:52:36 that'll be a good test. Feb 08 16:52:53 weird I get a too many cards open when trying to update or install using preware and it is the only one open Feb 08 16:53:08 you get one guess what I'm going to contend replaces "hello world" as a first app for webos. Feb 08 16:53:27 Rick_work: hmmm, let me think a minute Feb 08 16:54:44 Rick_work: I'm stumped, "Hello Chuqui" ? Feb 08 16:54:55 morning Feb 08 16:54:56 tip calc Feb 08 16:55:00 haha Feb 08 16:55:02 cool Feb 08 17:05:16 morning Chuqui -- talking about the ares book and a first-app for that. -- since hello world is so boring. Feb 08 17:05:27 huh, dumb. javascript doesn't have a pause/wait()? Feb 08 17:05:30 annoying Feb 08 17:06:34 no, javascript does not have a pause/wait AND YOU DO NOT WANT ONE. Feb 08 17:06:49 because it would lock up the phone's UI while you were pause/waiting. Feb 08 17:07:01 VincentLaw: use setTimeout Feb 08 17:07:03 hey is there a reason that the cross-compile git constantly pulls HEAD off svn? I know we're buddy-buddy with the e guys but do we want our build to be subject to their changes? Feb 08 17:07:03 not dumb -- design decision. Feb 08 17:07:13 setTimeout doesn't pause script execution though Feb 08 17:07:20 nope Feb 08 17:07:22 maybe just peg a particular revision so at least we're all building same thing/know it works/etc. Feb 08 17:07:39 VincentLaw no, settimeout does not pause script execution. Feb 08 17:07:58 I suppose I should find who's working on this and discuss with them instead of talking at the channel randomly :) Feb 08 17:08:05 do you want to know how to deal with it? Feb 08 17:08:15 I guess? :p Feb 08 17:08:29 sure. Feb 08 17:08:39 I'm just thinking if I use setTimeout, I'm going to end up doing some sort of dumb while() to stop it later anyway until the score counter finishes :/ Feb 08 17:08:49 not a while. Feb 08 17:08:50 VincentLaw: code with an event-driven philosophy Feb 08 17:08:54 nodnod Feb 08 17:09:14 VincentLaw you have a variable target Feb 08 17:09:21 you have a function counter. Feb 08 17:09:27 i should have clarified for the enlightenment stuff :) Feb 08 17:09:53 counter increments by whatever, then checks to see if the result equals target Feb 08 17:10:11 right, that's what I have now Feb 08 17:10:18 if the result does NOT equal target it sets a timeout to call counter. (itself) if it does, then it does not set a timeout and calls out. Feb 08 17:10:34 ah Feb 08 17:10:47 recursion loop Feb 08 17:10:55 more recursion hah Feb 08 17:11:10 while timeout is happening, there is NO code executing. It's just setting there. Feb 08 17:11:13 the jquery guys were beating that into my head yesterday, maybe now I'll learn :p Feb 08 17:11:34 VincentLaw programming in javascript requires embracing recursion. Feb 08 17:12:21 yeah, it makes sense from the way javascript is used Feb 08 17:12:56 VincentLaw it's the exact same thing if you want to get a big pile of stuff or send a big pile of stuff via ajax. Feb 08 17:13:24 there's not for-next loop. The send or recieve function calls ITSELF in the onsuccess function, with a test to see if it's done. Feb 08 17:14:38 yeah I get it, just have to keep that in mind when I'm writing, instead of trying to do things the way I'm used to :p Feb 08 17:15:58 xcomp: pingaling Feb 08 17:16:04 * dtzWill immediately regrets adding 'aling' Feb 08 17:16:40 Ping? Pong! Feb 08 17:16:55 I suddently really want to play ping pong Feb 08 17:17:04 but i'm terrible and don't have a table. Feb 08 17:17:10 but nevertheless Feb 08 17:17:17 I have a table in my basement, needs a new net Feb 08 17:17:39 I'm awesome in ping pong but I NEVER get to play Feb 08 17:17:41 can anyone recommend a cheap color laser printer? Feb 08 17:18:15 cheap, color, and laser: pick 2 Feb 08 17:18:18 egaudet_work: let's play Feb 08 17:18:35 | . Feb 08 17:18:55 '| Feb 08 17:19:01 hehe Feb 08 17:19:11 |. Feb 08 17:19:14 i found refurbished (factory) samsung clp-315W for 100 bucks Feb 08 17:19:24 : | OH CRAP MULTIBALL Feb 08 17:19:52 .|' Feb 08 17:19:54 missed one Feb 08 17:19:59 ;) Feb 08 17:20:05 hahaha Feb 08 17:21:08 my friend and I did that a long time ago in high school, with texting. if the other person didn't pong back in 10 minutes, they lost. Feb 08 17:21:16 we went through a lot of texts >.> Feb 08 17:22:14 xD Feb 08 17:23:55 ah, I see what I don't like about Ares...it writes the assistants with that weird 'class' structure that I've learned to avoid Feb 08 17:24:01 mini ah-HA Feb 08 17:24:16 weird class structure? Feb 08 17:24:19 hmmm when I was in high school if you wanted to send a text message you folded it up into a triangle and tossed it when the teacher wasn't looking Feb 08 17:24:29 egaudet_work: class="weird" Feb 08 17:24:38 egaudet- got a question they denied it happened in our chat rm lol, when u have some time that is Feb 08 17:24:39 :p Feb 08 17:24:53 egaudet it does mainasistant.prototoype = { } Feb 08 17:25:05 I like that Feb 08 17:25:10 like the framework Feb 08 17:25:18 and then inserts all the prototoype functions inside that opbject as xxxxx: function() {} Feb 08 17:25:18 egaudet_work: that's what I call it...it's really not the same thing as a Class.create() but it looks similar and scares me :P Feb 08 17:25:21 iSmite: go on... Feb 08 17:25:45 sugardave it's pure prototypal stuff, none of that wierd class stuff. Feb 08 17:25:53 yeah, I see it now...not so bad Feb 08 17:25:53 Rick_work: when I was in high school, it probably would have been faster to toss paper around. all they had were analog phones and nokia bricks back then for me :p Feb 08 17:25:59 * VincentLaw digresses and shuts up Feb 08 17:26:15 ok palm pre in uk is contract only on 02 network. i put in the apn settings for o2 payand go as i have unlimited 3g with them, it was a sim from an iphone but somehow they know i am not using an iphone and they want to cut my data off- i want to know how they know what phone i am using? Feb 08 17:26:16 The only thing I don't like about that style of stuff, is it completely confuses the heck out of my vim's auto format Feb 08 17:26:28 so I hit enter and get a 10-15 space indent ! Feb 08 17:26:34 heh Feb 08 17:27:01 teach the autoformatter better manners Feb 08 17:27:29 it indents even tho it's a comma seperated list in an object? Ouch. Feb 08 17:27:34 aptana can't figure out indenting to save its life. I've seen it completely nullify indents at random, etc Feb 08 17:28:05 I wish netbeans had better js support mixed with mojo, I love it for PHP Feb 08 17:29:03 iSmite: I don't know Feb 08 17:29:23 wow i thought you knew everything lol..damn i dont know what to do i need my free data plan Feb 08 17:29:37 if i knew how they knew i could i dunno block it or something Feb 08 17:29:43 lol, I wonder why they want to cut data off for NOT using an iphone though, that seems odd Feb 08 17:29:50 its an iphone specific sim Feb 08 17:30:02 but it took them almost a month to catch me out Feb 08 17:30:08 it was right after i topped up Feb 08 17:30:16 so something got sent to them some identifying thing Feb 08 17:30:16 even if I knew how to, i wouldn't be telling people how to circumvent agreements with their carriers Feb 08 17:30:27 i dont have an agreement with them Feb 08 17:30:32 its a pay as you go sim card Feb 08 17:30:42 you agreed to something when you bought that card and used it Feb 08 17:30:57 yes, and i bought the sim and iphone from them i still have the iphone Feb 08 17:31:14 i dont see why i cant use it in another phone sometimes Feb 08 17:31:17 I would not be surprised if there was fine print saying it would only work with that iphone Feb 08 17:31:43 it works fine in my pre they are just being nazi about it Feb 08 17:32:04 I don't think it's a matter of "functionality", but rather "fees". Feb 08 17:32:07 02 are notorious for being a crap company i had dealings with their ceo twice about it Feb 08 17:32:24 thats why i moved to orange Feb 08 17:32:31 but i moved back for the free data Feb 08 17:32:51 i feel i am being forced back to using the iphone Feb 08 17:33:00 I think that's what they want Feb 08 17:33:21 they may get paid for you using your iphone instead of another phone Feb 08 17:33:33 hmmmm Feb 08 17:33:48 no wonder so many iphone users in uk wont touch a palm pre Feb 08 17:33:58 you cant get palm on payg, iphone you can Feb 08 17:33:59 also, they may have statistics showing that iphones on their network on average use less data than other smartphones, and that's why they only give free data to it Feb 08 17:34:02 there's a lot of reasons Feb 08 17:34:53 i really dont want to change but im not going to be forced to use i phone i dont want to use i shall have to see if any of the other networks are offering a free data deal- doubt it though they know they have the upper hand with the iphone deal Feb 08 17:35:05 i hate o2 Feb 08 17:36:08 urgh £30 a month to get the free data i pay £10 now!!!! Feb 08 17:54:29 anyone know where getWidgetSetup() is documented? Feb 08 17:59:05 it's documented? Feb 08 17:59:15 apparently not. Feb 08 18:00:00 getWidgetSetup:function(name){ Feb 08 18:00:00 return this._widgetSetups[name]; Feb 08 18:00:00 }, Feb 08 18:00:27 that's the define in: /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/builtins/palmInitFramework200_18.js Feb 08 18:00:37 nodnod Feb 08 18:00:38 (nabbed that out of webos internals git for virtual keyboard lawl Feb 08 18:00:56 setWidgetModel is documented. No big deal. Feb 08 18:01:15 funny you should say that: "WARNING: getWidgetModel() has been deprecated. Use getWidgetSetup()." Feb 08 18:01:19 getWidgetModel is deprecated, log tells you that you should use getWidgetSetup instead. Feb 08 18:01:19 in the same file lol Feb 08 18:01:23 yeah Feb 08 18:01:24 haha Feb 08 18:01:40 So.... it would be nice to have getWidgetSetup documented.... Feb 08 18:01:52 obviously you're just supposed to /know/ Feb 08 18:01:53 :D Feb 08 18:02:36 any pointers to 1.4 yet? Feb 08 18:02:52 pointers? Feb 08 18:03:00 would it be better to listen to mouse event on 30 images all calling the same handler function bound with different variables, or to listen to one entire region and use the event target to determine what image was tapped Feb 08 18:03:14 the latter Feb 08 18:03:24 listen to the container, and then use the event target Feb 08 18:03:49 Pointer p = webos14; <-- theres a pointer for you, iSmite Feb 08 18:03:55 there's all sorts of info on 1.4, like: [REDACTED], [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]. Feb 08 18:04:08 gah Feb 08 18:04:13 K, that's how I'm doing it now. Trying to explore all the possible optimizations for the vkb Feb 08 18:04:26 can we get multi mouse touch in mojo js? Feb 08 18:04:28 at least i havent posted on precentral 34783476 times about it like everyone else has Feb 08 18:04:44 found it Feb 08 18:05:00 this.$.widgetName.fetchModelProperty("value"); Feb 08 18:05:18 iSmite: you won't find info cause anyone who would be privy to any such knowledge of possible future versions would be under an NDA anyway Feb 08 18:05:39 yeah i know someone who works for apple and its the same for them Feb 08 18:05:43 ah well Feb 08 18:05:56 and if we WERE under nda we would want to STAY under nda so that the NEXT TIME Chuqui had fun early access things to pass out, we got them too. Feb 08 18:06:18 but if you're an app developer, you could write to Chuqui and ask him (nicely) if you could get access... Feb 08 18:06:44 nah i do the graphics for apps not the coding Feb 08 18:07:07 and not for palm pre cos i dont know any devs well enough Feb 08 18:07:07 if you work for someone you can get that developer to ask for access for you as well Feb 08 18:07:20 then are you on a TEAM with a developer? because the whole team is covered? Feb 08 18:07:22 lol Feb 08 18:07:37 ismite: really? what's the difference from one smart phone to the next? I used a tmobile g1 android phone using my ATT SIM card and they didn't care Feb 08 18:07:37 no i only do graphics for iphones Feb 08 18:08:01 no i mean i dont know any palm devs...lol ive only done gfx for iphone apps and sites Feb 08 18:08:08 not pre yet Feb 08 18:08:16 destinal-wirc: that's because they're happy to get people off of iphones on AT&T Feb 08 18:08:19 :p Feb 08 18:08:38 heh Feb 08 18:08:48 oh i see what you mean no i have just emailed their ceo again cheeky i know but the worst they can say is piss off Feb 08 18:09:04 lol. I think they don't even know or care much what GSM device you use Feb 08 18:09:20 yes, they do they have threatened to cut off my sim Feb 08 18:09:21 which would be smart Feb 08 18:09:37 ismite: I mean ATT Feb 08 18:09:40 oh Feb 08 18:09:49 quick (possibly dumb) js question. with these 2 lines, splitdisplay errors out saying it is undefined in the for loop. Feb 08 18:09:50 splitdisplay = number.split; Feb 08 18:09:50 for (var i = splitdisplay.length; i <= digitnum; i++) { Feb 08 18:09:55 well they are probably a better company i dunno Feb 08 18:09:58 am I missing something? Feb 08 18:10:46 what is number Feb 08 18:11:02 something like "12345" Feb 08 18:11:33 number.split() Feb 08 18:12:01 what are you trying to do with it Feb 08 18:12:05 oh wait Feb 08 18:12:13 why not just do number.length Feb 08 18:13:10 I found my issue (I'm splitting it into an array of digits) Feb 08 18:29:02 Is it true that developers have firmware 1.4 to test their apps on? Feb 08 18:38:32 gollyzila: quite possible Feb 08 18:38:49 how long they've had it is anyone's guess Feb 08 18:51:36 Palm just said "Febuary" for the release of 1.4? They didn't said "early", "middle", or "late Febuary"? Feb 08 18:52:17 yes Feb 08 18:55:21 or even which year Feb 08 18:55:31 1.4 in feb 2011 Feb 08 18:56:05 :-) Feb 08 18:56:06 maybe feb 14th :p Feb 08 18:56:16 2014? Feb 08 18:56:24 feb 14th 2014 Feb 08 18:56:26 02/14/14 Feb 08 18:56:29 i hope not Feb 08 18:56:34 it's definitely Feb 29th 2010 Feb 08 18:56:42 feb 31st? Feb 08 18:56:54 I almost believed that for about a second :p Feb 08 18:57:01 then I realized feb only has 28 days. Feb 08 18:57:21 it sometimes has 29 days Feb 08 18:57:29 and there was a case where it had 30 days Feb 08 18:57:29 well, yeah Feb 08 18:57:35 it has never had 31 days Feb 08 19:00:42 so what feature/s are people most anticipating in 1.4 ? Feb 08 19:01:27 I am most anticipating the anticipation of the next webos version after 1.4! :P Feb 08 19:02:38 If Palm makes the Pre access the GPU, will that make the entire phone ui smoother and quicker? Will it increase battery life since the CPU has less to do ? Feb 08 19:02:59 yep, it appears anticipation of version n+1 is a feature of version n Feb 08 19:04:43 gollyzila: if palm were to modify the UI to use the GPU, it would probably be smoother. battery life is another matter entirely - you have to look at what's using the battery, and I don't think the UI is a major user Feb 08 19:05:20 biggest battery users are probably radios and backlight Feb 08 19:06:51 We need solar/rechargable battery powered phones. Calculators have had it for years now. Feb 08 19:07:01 and CPU when running a CPU-intensive app and in turbo mode Feb 08 19:09:24 I know this is off topic, but check out what I found these two doing in the animal cracker box http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/gollyzila/?action=view¤t=PRE_2009-12-11-164851.jpg Feb 08 19:10:09 gollyzila: thats more of a #webos-watercooler item Feb 08 19:12:40 Thanks gkatsev, never knew about that channel Feb 08 19:14:24 They can't gpu enable luna until they can gpu enable the pixi. Feb 08 19:14:59 Is that possible with the pixi's processor? Feb 08 19:15:39 what the hell, why does the pre keep getting rid of my classes calendar on the phone... Feb 08 19:18:02 Rick_work: it depends at what level they expose the GPU functionality. they could accellerate luna on the Pre and not the Pixi on a low level Feb 08 19:18:25 I truely hate splitting projects like that. Feb 08 19:19:21 we already have GPU access on the Pre with SDL and not on the Pixi Feb 08 19:20:12 cross-platform compatibility cuts both ways Feb 08 19:21:11 sigh. I misspelled accelerate Feb 08 19:29:12 * acydlord hides from the palm flood Feb 08 19:58:24 egaudet_work: ping Feb 08 19:58:33 hello Daniel Feb 08 19:58:35 good afternoon Feb 08 19:59:40 blargh Feb 08 20:00:20 Rick_work: I think there was some incorrect logic in your modulus math :p Feb 08 20:00:37 egaudet_work: afternoon it is. Feb 08 20:00:42 VincentLaw I didn't write the whole thing out for you. Feb 08 20:00:43 egaudet_work: as for hape's patches.. I agree, maybe the German one can be an add on.. Feb 08 20:00:50 VincentLaw do you want me to? Feb 08 20:01:27 dBsooner: yea i'd much rather any common code portions of things to be contained in a single patch. Maintaining common code through multiple separate iterations of things is painful and error prone Feb 08 20:01:55 egaudet_work: but hape's argument was it should be the same patch Feb 08 20:01:57 Rick_work: no, it's not that Feb 08 20:02:11 I think you had the remainder and the digit value flipped :p Feb 08 20:02:13 dBsooner: not following Feb 08 20:02:14 egaudet_work: and my argument was USA rom's don't have de_du (whatever) languages Feb 08 20:02:19 right Feb 08 20:02:29 well yep. I did. Feb 08 20:02:33 sorry about that. Feb 08 20:02:41 lol it's okay, as long as I know what it is now :D Feb 08 20:02:43 so that patch would fail to apply to a Sprint/VZW rom Feb 08 20:02:50 still, the IDEA was valueable Feb 08 20:02:55 yea that's not what we are going to do Feb 08 20:03:02 i know Feb 08 20:03:06 I was just saying what his argument was. Feb 08 20:03:07 oh I know, I just thought I'd check with you :p Feb 08 20:03:24 dBsooner: well maybe he was just confused about the impact on others Feb 08 20:03:57 egaudet_work: no, he had no idea the Sprint/VZW roms don't contain other languages. Feb 08 20:04:26 well now he does Feb 08 20:04:50 now, what about his other argument? Feb 08 20:05:02 and all we can really do is abstract out the carrier/localization specific parts Feb 08 20:05:02 About the MM/DD supporting "." as delimiter? Feb 08 20:05:04 what does that mean? Feb 08 20:05:10 no idea Feb 08 20:05:23 This is why we should have screenshots Feb 08 20:06:59 oh Feb 08 20:07:11 egaudet_work: I can't regenerate VincentLaw's Pandora patch. Feb 08 20:07:20 you -can- Feb 08 20:07:25 because Pandora isn't in the stock rom's. Feb 08 20:07:26 you can't auto it Feb 08 20:07:29 In fact, I think it's a download only. Feb 08 20:07:35 no, I can't. Feb 08 20:07:42 It's an App Catalog download Feb 08 20:07:46 it's a free download Feb 08 20:07:53 I am not about to go ripping the AC download off the phone. Feb 08 20:07:56 it can be regenerated or just verify lsdiff works on it Feb 08 20:08:12 you act as if "ripping" download is more than scp -r Feb 08 20:08:34 it's still taking copyrighted content off the device. ;) Feb 08 20:08:39 ? Feb 08 20:08:43 you extract the doctor Feb 08 20:08:50 thats different. Feb 08 20:08:55 not really Feb 08 20:08:56 the doctor is made for the computer. Feb 08 20:09:01 not made to extract Feb 08 20:09:05 it's the same difference Feb 08 20:09:17 but anyway, Feb 08 20:09:31 I just wonder what we would do with our first paid-app patch submission Feb 08 20:09:51 not accept Feb 08 20:09:52 ;) Feb 08 20:09:57 hi dBsooner , see you are discussing it at the moment Feb 08 20:10:01 But regardless, what do I do with it? Feb 08 20:10:09 do with what? Feb 08 20:10:10 do I add a depends for the app catalog pandora? Feb 08 20:10:12 the pandora one? Feb 08 20:10:13 i can't deo that. Feb 08 20:10:14 Was my mail clear? Feb 08 20:10:22 hape: Was my reply clear? Feb 08 20:10:32 dBsooner: why can't you add a depends for the app cat pandora? Feb 08 20:10:43 the depends will FAIL to install (thus fail the patch) when pandora is not installed Feb 08 20:11:03 I send you an reply some seconds ago:-) Feb 08 20:11:14 good point Feb 08 20:11:14 ok Feb 08 20:11:33 so basically I need to have a way to "not regenerate" and just "test lsdiff" Feb 08 20:11:40 on certain approve processes. Feb 08 20:11:53 dBsooner: regenerate is currently built in automatically to "submit" ? Feb 08 20:11:54 If you like you can keep it with two patches for the topbar date. My only ideas was that more patches confuese more people and make the lisl longer Feb 08 20:12:08 what does the pandora patch do? Feb 08 20:12:09 egaudet_work: negative.. its automatic on approve Feb 08 20:12:19 well yea "submit" i meant admin approve/submit Feb 08 20:12:28 so yea just add some type of manual override for that portion I guess Feb 08 20:12:57 hape, there's probably nothing we can do in that regard though Feb 08 20:13:03 at least not in the current version of aupt logic Feb 08 20:13:27 i think the mm/dd having . as a delimiter meant to have the date in the dd.mm.yy format instead of dd/mm/yy Feb 08 20:14:20 thats what I thought too Feb 08 20:14:31 hints the term "delimiter" Feb 08 20:14:49 if i recall correctly many places in europe display dates with decimals instead of slashes Feb 08 20:14:51 but without screenshots, it makes it hard for me to guess. Feb 08 20:14:53 acydlord: your are right Feb 08 20:15:43 in germany we have dd.mm.yy you have mm/dd/yy, so the script nee to check for . adn / and take the one that is found Feb 08 20:16:17 that was my small change to make it usable for geman users and hoever uses a"." Feb 08 20:17:23 hape: it makes sense. I didn't see it that way. Feb 08 20:17:32 I'm confused Feb 08 20:17:49 egaudet_work: their date format.. the way the phone spits it out is MM.DD.YYYY Feb 08 20:17:54 instead of / / Feb 08 20:18:07 right Feb 08 20:18:10 but what's the "issue" Feb 08 20:18:13 so in order to chop the date and render MM/DD to the screen.. it checks for the first / and second / Feb 08 20:18:25 he made it to where it will check for the / and second / OR the first . an second . Feb 08 20:18:43 I didn't realize that when I made the patch Feb 08 20:18:46 err,k approved it. Feb 08 20:19:28 so the "period as delimiter" patch is actually an extension of the regular patch that will work for everywhere Feb 08 20:19:36 yes Feb 08 20:19:49 so it should have been an update to the current MM/DD Feb 08 20:19:54 do we need to obsolete again or has it not been pushed through yet Feb 08 20:19:56 instead of a New one "mm.dd" Feb 08 20:20:04 it's been pushed through Feb 08 20:20:08 but just came out LATE last night Feb 08 20:20:12 I say we can just delete Feb 08 20:21:20 versino bump depend on real one remove itself Feb 08 20:21:35 ? Feb 08 20:21:47 standard supercedes Feb 08 20:21:54 no Feb 08 20:22:00 I think so Feb 08 20:22:02 it's been released Feb 08 20:22:07 I was going to resubmit the one hape made as an update to the old Feb 08 20:22:13 yes Feb 08 20:22:17 because the new one is all wrong Feb 08 20:22:19 open tty:// ... you guys know of a way to get novacom to run something on login? Feb 08 20:22:26 its descirption and everything is wrong. Feb 08 20:22:33 because I thought it made it "mm.dd" Feb 08 20:22:35 the new package id should be made to obsolete/superceded by old one that you are going to update Feb 08 20:22:40 ok, I switch to the old one as well to test the update Feb 08 20:22:50 so its "Add MM/DD with Period as Delimiter" Feb 08 20:23:05 i would say just delete the new one Feb 08 20:23:12 because no one should have downloaded it yet Feb 08 20:23:21 why keep the pacakge id around Feb 08 20:23:25 bad idea to assume what you think people should have done ;) Feb 08 20:23:32 the instant it's released, it's released Feb 08 20:23:40 so we have to obsolete/supercede it IMO Feb 08 20:24:15 ok Feb 08 20:24:18 then it can wait till tonight Feb 08 20:24:23 i agree Feb 08 20:24:28 the old one can be updated whenever Feb 08 20:25:19 so in case anyone cared.. I figured out my volume down problem on my pre. Feb 08 20:25:42 It appears to be a fault in design. There is really no protection from debris for the volume buttons. Feb 08 20:26:15 i ended up taking the volume rocker out and peeling up the volume buttons contacts from the chassis.. cleaned it with contact cleaner. Feb 08 20:26:17 put it back. Feb 08 20:26:19 all is well. Feb 08 20:26:38 but there is no protection from dust, dirt, grime, etc. Feb 08 20:27:52 wow, would ya look at that.. volume rocker pops right out Feb 08 20:27:57 * Mousey tries to figure out how to put it back Feb 08 20:28:10 lol Feb 08 20:28:17 put the 'stick side' in first Feb 08 20:28:34 then the "latch side" kinda bend it back with a small flat head as you push it in Feb 08 20:28:35 (that's what she said) Feb 08 20:28:58 see what I am saying? Poor design IMO. Feb 08 20:30:09 man, that thing is... delicate Feb 08 20:30:20 yeah. Feb 08 20:30:21 it is Feb 08 20:30:56 so when I doctor 1.3.5 over again, it doesn't erase /media/internal, but none of my programs are installed anymore? (or don't show to be installed..) Feb 08 20:31:17 well, independent confirmation... construction is cheap Feb 08 20:31:32 of the volume rocker Mousey? I agree. Feb 08 20:31:38 * Mousey nods Feb 08 20:33:20 ahm, I'm trying to clone an empty repo from webos git and get "fatal: no matching remote head" anyone? Feb 08 20:34:19 debilater: git clone git://git.webos-internals.org/repo/blah.git? Feb 08 20:34:36 dBsooner: yes and I can see it from web view Feb 08 20:34:49 what repo? Feb 08 20:35:16 dBsooner: none of your programs installed anymore after doctor? Feb 08 20:35:16 git.webos-internals.org:games/stella.git Feb 08 20:35:38 egaudet_work: nope.. just my palm ones Feb 08 20:35:46 egaudet_work: the palm ones get "reinstalled" after the doctor Feb 08 20:35:55 but things like Preware, wIRC, etc.. gone. Feb 08 20:36:59 debilater: you have commit access? Feb 08 20:37:08 bc if you don't, you are using the wrong URL Feb 08 20:37:14 git clone git://git.webos-internals.org/games/stella.git Feb 08 20:37:25 notice the / after org Feb 08 20:37:44 dBsooner: they don't get reinstalled... Feb 08 20:37:47 they don't get removed Feb 08 20:37:55 you must do some digging Feb 08 20:38:07 debilater: but that repo is umm.. gone? Feb 08 20:38:17 dBsooner: but "git clone git@git.webos-internals.org:games/sdlquake.git" works like this Feb 08 20:38:23 your programs are gone as in the icons missing? preware doesn't show them installed? the dirs in /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications gone? Feb 08 20:39:00 egaudet_work: icons missing, i have to reinstall preware to see if preware shows them there or not Feb 08 20:39:13 egaudet_work: dunno about the dirs being gone.. haven't checked. Feb 08 20:39:20 dBsooner: if I do "git clone git:git.webos-internals.org/games/stella.git" I get ssh: connect to host git port 22: Connection refused Feb 08 20:39:32 git://git.webos-internals.org/games/stella.git Feb 08 20:39:35 not git:git Feb 08 20:39:37 git:// Feb 08 20:39:55 regardless, that repo is empty. Feb 08 20:39:59 nothing in the tree Feb 08 20:40:00 look at the gitweb Feb 08 20:40:04 it shows you the exact urls Feb 08 20:40:04 nothing in the commits, nothing in the logs Feb 08 20:40:08 one or the other Feb 08 20:40:10 EXACT Feb 08 20:40:21 dBsooner: yes :) I want to fill it Feb 08 20:40:22 you can still clone empty repo Feb 08 20:40:36 if you want to commit Feb 08 20:40:41 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=games/stella.git;a=summary Feb 08 20:40:45 2nd URL is the push url Feb 08 20:40:50 then you have to use the "git clone git@git.webos-internals.org:games/stella.git Feb 08 20:41:09 dBsooner: it's :/games Feb 08 20:41:19 just copy paste from the link Feb 08 20:41:19 yeah, that too Feb 08 20:41:30 anyway, I'm going back to work. Feb 08 20:41:33 you all are boring. Feb 08 20:41:36 dBsooner: yes that's exactly what I did in the first place and I get "fatal: no matching remote head" Feb 08 20:41:40 dBsooner: sorry Feb 08 20:41:44 lol Feb 08 20:41:53 :) Feb 08 20:45:08 debilater: copy and paste the url from the gitweb Feb 08 20:45:24 if you did exactly what dBsooner pasted that is wrong because it is missing the / after : Feb 08 20:46:58 egaudet_work: I did, same error Feb 08 20:47:06 I'm not kidding :) Feb 08 20:47:24 screenshot or it didn't happen Feb 08 20:47:33 :p Feb 08 20:48:12 lol Feb 08 20:50:58 rwhitby: ping Feb 08 20:51:50 dBsooner: screenshot: http://www.23hq.com/PaliDhar/photo/5357565/original Feb 08 20:51:52 :) Feb 08 20:53:57 I got that problem no matter what I did a while back. Feb 08 20:54:04 I forgot what I did to fix it though. Feb 08 21:00:57 anyone else familiar with QNAP NAS's? Or any other brand for that matter? Feb 08 21:01:53 debilater: make a head, merge, push Feb 08 21:02:29 zsoc: ? Feb 08 21:03:08 you still having the issue with the empty repo Feb 08 21:03:22 zsoc: yes Feb 08 21:03:56 yea you can init the repo yourself, add the remote and branch and push/pull Feb 08 21:03:57 debilater: you can't fetch an empty repo, you have to push something to it first Feb 08 21:04:00 I don't know why the clone doesn't work Feb 08 21:04:01 it works for me Feb 08 21:04:08 zsoc: lies Feb 08 21:04:11 I clone it fine Feb 08 21:04:13 it doesn't work here either, it's normal afaict Feb 08 21:04:21 warning: You appear to have cloned an empty repository Feb 08 21:04:26 well I can't :p Feb 08 21:04:33 version of git mebee Feb 08 21:04:34 maybe it's a git version thing? Feb 08 21:04:37 jinkx Feb 08 21:04:40 grr Feb 08 21:04:41 ~~~~ Feb 08 21:04:42 ARGH!!! STOP IT egaudet_work!!! Feb 08 21:05:00 I'm using 1.6.4.4 Feb 08 21:05:15 debilater: anyway.. the command is git remote add origin Feb 08 21:05:23 and then git push origin master Feb 08 21:06:17 zsoc: git remote add origin git@git.webos-internals.org:/games/stella.git ? doesn't work Feb 08 21:06:22 zsoc: now what's the command to make master hooked up to master Feb 08 21:06:30 debilater: git init first Feb 08 21:06:33 mkdir stella Feb 08 21:06:35 cd stella Feb 08 21:06:36 git init Feb 08 21:07:40 ugh, no I'm right in this instance :p Feb 08 21:07:54 git init works, but git push origin master throws more errors Feb 08 21:08:21 debilater: after git init did you do git remote add... line? Feb 08 21:08:38 zsoc: after the git remote add, you don't have the master branch connected to the remote repo Feb 08 21:08:51 I cna't remember how to get that setup without manually modifying .git/config Feb 08 21:09:23 egaudet_work: hmm.. maybe I did edit the config... Feb 08 21:09:43 ok, now works Feb 08 21:09:50 I had to add a file Feb 08 21:09:54 see, we worked it out lol Feb 08 21:10:05 debilater: how is Stella coming along? Feb 08 21:10:08 rwhitby: Where would I find a list of Optware compatible NAS devices? I am about to buy a NAS but want it to be able to run SSHd for SFTP backups. Feb 08 21:10:45 rwhitby: or even better, rsync backups. Feb 08 21:11:05 zsoc: works beside moving (w,s,a,d keys do not respond), everything else is ok, settings screens are unusable (the flicker between tabs very fast) and it rarely crashes Feb 08 21:11:27 dBsooner: use nslug Feb 08 21:11:36 dBsooner: I use it and am very happy Feb 08 21:11:40 very very Feb 08 21:11:55 and it's smaller than the iphone lol Feb 08 21:12:35 nice Feb 08 21:13:00 debilater: hints nslu2-log in here.. Feb 08 21:13:03 dBsooner: this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSLU2 Feb 08 21:13:05 debilater: that's rwhitby's fortay. Feb 08 21:13:12 I know all about NSLU2 Feb 08 21:13:27 so why are you asking? buy it then :) Feb 08 21:13:36 what's a fortay Feb 08 21:13:48 isn't that like 3 beers or something :P Feb 08 21:14:11 debilater: Because I want it to be a RAID backup Feb 08 21:14:16 this is for mission critical stuff Feb 08 21:14:22 not just some USB backup access Feb 08 21:14:42 I am looking at a QNAP 219P right now Feb 08 21:14:50 I see Feb 08 21:14:52 but its 399.99 without drives. Feb 08 21:15:15 so 2 1TB drives = another 200 Feb 08 21:15:28 * Mousey runs debain on his NSLU2, most reliable box in his house Feb 08 21:21:21 wow, i was just at the preirc channel, i guess i need to visit this channel 2,,, i see many users here. Hi all Feb 08 21:23:10 welcome to the party Feb 08 21:23:30 there's a pre irc channel? Feb 08 21:24:42 ya "PreIRC" was announced on precentral forms. Feb 08 21:25:21 ##preirc Feb 08 21:26:13 I think it's like the unofficial precentral user channel Feb 08 21:27:02 not sure, but its alive and the members started to drop by. Feb 08 21:27:39 can i ask for support/help ? Feb 08 21:28:05 as long as it is on topic yeah Feb 08 21:28:34 ~ask Feb 08 21:28:36 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Feb 08 21:30:12 thanks, its about arabic support on webos, the guys at precentral forms supported me, but we could not get arabic support to work using the font replacement way. Feb 08 21:31:58 i posted the updates on the form, http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2208550#post2208550 ... the arabic font only works on the notification area, and only during the initial notification alert period, Feb 08 21:35:17 I'm midly interested in this, given linux general compatibility and superior language support Feb 08 21:38:10 i've seen Japanese and hebrow fonts work on the pre/webos on all parts of the OS, but when i tried arabic it didn't :-( Feb 08 21:38:26 zsoc: well, the palm isn't even able to properly display german umlauts, so ... Feb 08 21:47:24 anyone messed around with trying to open the tar file created by ##logs#? Feb 08 21:50:28 lyht, i know i havent Feb 08 21:54:25 I got mine...what do you suppose secretkey.ssl is? Feb 08 21:59:05 sugardave: Hi, over on the dark side! Feb 08 21:59:10 ah Feb 08 21:59:12 k Feb 08 21:59:22 rwhitby: so I copied everything from my $HOME/.ssh to the same folder in the widk, and when I push it's telling me my passphrase is wrong.. am I missing a step? Feb 08 22:00:44 zsoc: huh? Feb 08 22:00:52 rwhitby: 0.9.21 works like a charm for me Feb 08 22:01:04 sugardave, I think the secretkey.ssl file is the public key that is combined with the private key the app (and the palm techs) have... but I didn't know blowfish used both private and public keys... Feb 08 22:01:47 zsoc: what are you trying to do? Feb 08 22:02:01 lyht: unfortunately, I still don't understand the basics of key encryption Feb 08 22:02:08 lyht: blowfish is a symetric algo, it's using just 1 key Feb 08 22:02:21 hahaha. Me too. Feb 08 22:03:27 debilater: so would you think that a file called secretkey.ssl that came with the encrypted file would be the key to unencrypt it? It looks like a 128bit key. I also though Blowfish only supported up to 64bit Feb 08 22:03:49 though=thought Feb 08 22:04:07 lyht: I bet the secretkey.ssl is encrypted via another mechanism...that Palm can decrypt to then decrypt the log.... Feb 08 22:04:12 pure conjecture Feb 08 22:04:16 egaudet_work: push to cross-compile.git? Feb 08 22:04:16 lyht: maybe but who delivers an encrypted file along with the key, doesn't make sence imho Feb 08 22:04:32 sugardave: that makes sence indeed Feb 08 22:04:42 woo! Feb 08 22:04:48 score one for me Feb 08 22:05:14 lyht: what are you looking at? Feb 08 22:05:39 the file that is generated with ##logs# Feb 08 22:05:47 in the dial pad Feb 08 22:07:54 lyht: sorry I was wrong: you use the public key to ENcrypt a file for a recipient and the recipient use his private key do DEcrypt it - so I still don't know what's that secretkey.ssl file for Feb 08 22:08:37 lyht: perhaps it will be used to sign the target file with that so they know where it's coming from or the like Feb 08 22:09:28 hmmmm... Feb 08 22:09:53 backwards debilater Feb 08 22:10:01 lyht: take a look into /var/log/rdxd/ I think that's the stuff which its packaging Feb 08 22:10:10 you encrypt it with the private key, it gets decrypted with the pub Feb 08 22:11:01 acydlord: nope. e.g. in pgp I publish my public key on keyservers, someone takes it, encrypts an email with it for me and I can decrypt it with my private key Feb 08 22:11:16 that's why it's called private Feb 08 22:11:29 you do not transmit private keys, never ever Feb 08 22:13:24 brainfart, i was thinking of signing, severe lack of sleep will do that to one Feb 08 22:13:39 acydlord: yeah signing works this way :) Feb 08 22:13:55 brb Feb 08 22:19:28 zsoc: push to cross-compile.git... why are you moving .ssh keys? Feb 08 22:19:55 no different than other repo Feb 08 22:21:33 egaudet_work: nono it's a different box. I'm trying to move my keys so I don't have a make a new one and have rod add it Feb 08 22:21:55 just copy your .ssh/id_rsa to new computer's .ssh/ Feb 08 22:22:16 egaudet_work: yeah that's what I did. it's telling me my phrase is wrong Feb 08 22:22:31 filthy liars! Feb 08 22:22:48 needs all-caps, and more !'s Feb 08 22:23:35 egaudet_work: although my phrase is 43 characters, so even trying it 15 times I'm not 100% sure I didn't mistype Feb 08 22:23:45 lol Feb 08 22:23:50 that's a nice big phrase Feb 08 22:25:02 egaudet_work: we'll it's also my key I use for everything... Feb 08 22:26:26 zsoc, so all we need to do is comprimise this one 43 char phrase and we'll have everything? Feb 08 22:26:42 :P Feb 08 22:26:44 acydlord: yes pretty much lol Feb 08 22:27:00 what's the passprhase, i'll see if I can debug it on my end Feb 08 22:27:01 * acydlord fires up the datacenter Feb 08 22:27:03 :P Feb 08 22:27:08 lol Feb 08 22:27:19 is this .ssl file x509? Feb 08 22:27:21 zsoc: it's probably just you mistyping Feb 08 22:27:24 try it again Feb 08 22:27:25 and again Feb 08 22:27:58 i mean its not like i have 3 128 node clusters to just throw at that sort of thing or anything Feb 08 22:30:02 what format is this key? rsa? Feb 08 22:30:07 egaudet_work: It works tho on my home box tho.. it's weird... maybe the key file got corrupt? Feb 08 22:30:10 yeah rsa Feb 08 22:31:43 zsoc: maybe Feb 08 22:31:55 the keyfile should work on any computer Feb 08 22:32:08 hence the passphrase security Feb 08 22:33:02 hmm.. I'll try scping it... not sure how I moved it last time Feb 08 22:33:27 missed the history, what's this for? Feb 08 22:33:55 pushing to repos on both computers Feb 08 22:40:33 whats good Feb 08 22:44:13 dtzWill: yes, the cross-compile.git makefiles should only ever use stable known versions from svn repos (e.g. tags usually). That should be fixed by whoever added the Makefile :-) Feb 08 22:47:32 dBsooner: I think all patches with date formats in them should be rejected until they use the webOS functions for displaying dates in the format of the locale in use. Feb 08 22:50:45 rwhitby: Ok.. now answer my NAS question. ;) Feb 08 22:50:49 zsoc: use agent forwarding, don't copy private keys around Feb 08 22:51:02 dBsooner: Synology DS1010+ Feb 08 22:51:13 for around $500, rwhitby. Feb 08 22:51:13 lucky for me my patch uses the WebOS time function so I don't have to worry about localization Feb 08 22:51:29 dBsooner: meh - I have no idea what they cost, I get them for free. Feb 08 22:51:49 You suck! Feb 08 22:51:52 oc80z: Preware in French and German Feb 08 22:51:59 ok, I'll give you money, you mail one to me. Feb 08 22:52:00 :) Feb 08 22:52:29 Yeah, I'll give you $500 for one rwhitby. Feb 08 22:52:30 :) Feb 08 22:53:57 rwhitby: Deal? (Don't go look at prices before agreeing) Feb 08 22:55:09 Nice Feb 08 22:55:35 Those are very very dreamy. Feb 08 22:55:39 But a little out of my price range. Feb 08 22:56:37 Now, rwhitby, do you have a recommendation for a cheaper line that would allow rsync/sftp/ftp/samba/nfs/...? (Obvious statement here would be one that would run a *nix) Feb 08 22:57:43 commute, bbl Feb 08 22:59:50 NSLU2 Feb 08 22:59:50 cheap as it gets Feb 08 22:59:50 * rwhitby is on commute *to* work Feb 08 23:00:18 rwhitby: so.. agent forwarding.. I guess I'll google? Feb 08 23:04:01 zsoc: eval `ssh-agent` Feb 08 23:04:14 zsoc: ssh-add (enter your passphrase, if any) Feb 08 23:06:59 rwhitby: when you read this.. I was thinking NSLU2 as well.. but I really wanted a more of a all inclusive device with SATA drives. I like the QNAP's, but they are a bit pricey as well (driveless). There are some Netgear, Western Digital's, etc that are good priced with drives included. I just don't know if they will do all the protocol's i want. Feb 08 23:07:25 db: you can get sata to usb adapters Feb 08 23:07:57 destinal-wirc: but whats' the speed limit of USB2.0? Feb 08 23:08:12 any downside to using a USB adapter vs a true SATA interface? Feb 08 23:08:40 USB is unidirectional and maxes out around 32MBytes/sec Feb 08 23:08:43 maybe speed, I should do some tests Feb 08 23:09:04 maybe somebody can help me... Sometimes when ppl call me my phone doesn't ring... and i don't get any info that somebody is calling. Feb 08 23:09:13 bpadalino|work: so USB is def. slower than a SATA interface. Feb 08 23:09:16 but how fast do you need over 100mb/a Feb 08 23:09:20 mb/s Feb 08 23:09:24 can it be a sprint issue? Feb 08 23:09:45 destinal-wirc: if I have 4 x 1TB in RAID 1 or something, it needs to be kinda quick. Feb 08 23:10:04 can the NSLU2 even handle 4 x 1? Feb 08 23:10:23 yeah, SATA is like 1.5Gbps signaling speed on the line? 3Gbps ? depending on the standard .. and i also believe it's full duplex Feb 08 23:10:43 gotta drive home now .. bbl Feb 08 23:10:56 yeah, I think I am going to go the SATA route.. just need to decide on a system that will allow the Protocols I need. Feb 08 23:12:35 The USB controller in the nslu2 is slow. That's why it's called the slug. Feb 08 23:13:16 well. Feb 08 23:14:27 slug2 still not released :-( Feb 08 23:15:39 I have a TS119 (movies), a DS209 (backup), a TS209 (offsite disaster), a TS229 (new, dev), a DS408 (unused), a TS409 (prod), and a DS1010+ (new dev). Feb 08 23:20:54 debilater: new testing version of 0.9.21 in testing feed with your name corrected. Feb 08 23:23:11 Three testers for Preware 0.9.21 alpha requested ... Feb 08 23:24:55 dBsooner: are you looking for storage? Feb 08 23:24:56 jesus christ, i switched to stella 3.0 - and it works, I can move mario lol Feb 08 23:25:06 hey... ircd7 brought ssl, nice Feb 08 23:25:11 debilater: awesome Feb 08 23:25:23 I'll try it if I can get a signal in this classroom, I can barely hold a wifi connection Feb 08 23:25:54 Does anyone know if any of the alternate wrt firmwares (ddwrt, openwrt, tomato, etc) support load balancing? Feb 08 23:26:19 i think dd-wrt claims to but have never configured it Feb 08 23:26:33 hm, maybe i should do it myself Feb 08 23:26:46 i was looking at upgrading to the latest ver of dd-wrt for ipv6 support Feb 08 23:26:54 but havent gotten around to it yet Feb 08 23:28:09 ddwrt works _surprisingly_ well for wireless bridging/repeating/virtualaps Feb 08 23:31:00 jhojho: yep, looking for storage. I am getting a $500 bonus in a week or so Feb 08 23:31:20 my readynas has served me well. Feb 08 23:31:27 want to replace my aging desktop with a NAS that will allow rsync/sftp/ssh/ftp/etc Feb 08 23:31:33 happy customer but it's not the cheapest Feb 08 23:31:44 rwhitby: games/stella.git committed. (app doesn't work yet, as it starts in launcher mode, which crashes yet, but providing a rom file on commandline works perfectly), I'll ask the stella maintainer for help about the crash ... Feb 08 23:31:51 rwhitby: updated to 0.9.21 via Preware and seems to be working Feb 08 23:31:56 but my data is important to me so i'm happy with it. Feb 08 23:32:12 rwhitby: do your QNAP's run proprietary OS's or are they linux? Feb 08 23:32:27 dBsooner: you could always get an older readynas , should be cheaper. Feb 08 23:32:45 the only thing I dont like about my older readynas is lack of wakeonlan support Feb 08 23:32:52 so I can't remote start after a power outage Feb 08 23:33:02 jhojho: I have $500.. ;) I am sure I can afford a ReadyNAS Feb 08 23:33:07 dBsooner: I run vendor firmware on most, and Debian Lenny on the TS409 Feb 08 23:33:13 that DS1010+ rwhitby pointed me to was $1800 USD Feb 08 23:33:29 dBsooner: save up for it? =) Feb 08 23:33:33 I run optware on all. Feb 08 23:33:33 I thought newegg had it cheaper than that Feb 08 23:33:40 ouch Feb 08 23:33:47 have had bad experiences with the buffalo terastation so ymmv with that Feb 08 23:33:54 jacques: probably the driveless version Feb 08 23:34:14 yeah Feb 08 23:34:31 rwhitby: Do your 2XX's run in RAID? Feb 08 23:34:38 1,018.99 driveless Feb 08 23:35:09 jacques: so thenh slap in 10 x 1TB drives Feb 08 23:35:11 and you have 2K Feb 08 23:35:32 rwhitby: Are those the PRO versions you run? Feb 08 23:35:36 10? it holds 10 drives? I thought only 5 Feb 08 23:36:01 HDD Interface 5 x SATA Feb 08 23:36:14 if you want to, you have to attach another NAS they sell Feb 08 23:36:19 s/to/10/ Feb 08 23:36:20 jacques meant: if you want 10, you have to attach another NAS they sell Feb 08 23:36:50 Hmm.. I like that TS209 Feb 08 23:37:03 which is one reason I am looking at TS859 Pro Feb 08 23:37:21 dBsooner: all my production servers except the TS119 run mirrored. The TS409 runs a three drive RAID1, where one drive is always offsite. Feb 08 23:37:35 nice Feb 08 23:37:59 I like that TS209, but I don't think its in production still. Feb 08 23:38:14 nm Feb 08 23:38:40 newegg doesn't have it available Feb 08 23:39:11 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822108029&cm_re=ts-209-_-22-108-029-_-Product Feb 08 23:39:38 so is Synology the same as QNAP? Feb 08 23:39:42 I dunno what the +II means Feb 08 23:40:17 lol.. they give you the "bundle" with only 1 drive. Feb 08 23:40:20 so nice of them Feb 08 23:40:27 oh sorry Feb 08 23:40:38 I didn't notice I searched on newegg and it gave me "similar" named items Feb 08 23:40:51 yeah DS209 and TS209 Feb 08 23:40:59 DS = Synology, TS = QNAP Feb 08 23:41:03 the patches for webos work on the pre plus right Feb 08 23:41:10 sampson: sure Feb 08 23:41:12 sweet Feb 08 23:41:19 there might be some tech sharing between the two companies, because on some products QNAP (at least) claims an "exclusive" Feb 08 23:41:26 i set my friend up with preware and was like the patches are totally cool look at my blinking light!! Feb 08 23:41:31 jhojho: Does your netgear ReadyNAS support SFTP/rsync? Feb 08 23:41:32 totally forgot to check and see if it would destroy his phone Feb 08 23:41:56 sampson: it shouldn't patches shouldn't affect the phone in that way. Feb 08 23:42:01 dBsooner: not sure re sftp but pretty sure rsync Feb 08 23:42:49 jacques: as far as I know, synology and qnap are competitors with no sharing of technology (other than they both come to me for optware) Feb 08 23:42:53 best buy still has the ReadyNAS line.. I MIGHT get one with my 1500 best buy shopping spree. Feb 08 23:43:14 rwhitby: sell me one of your "freebies" Feb 08 23:43:23 i'll pay AU to US shipping rates Feb 08 23:43:31 is there any method to view a webpage locally on the pre yet? Feb 08 23:43:44 dBsooner: how can I support optware on a device if I don't have the device ... Feb 08 23:43:53 hmm Feb 08 23:43:58 I give you SSH access? Feb 08 23:43:59 :) Feb 08 23:44:45 rwhitby: OK. Feb 08 23:44:47 but then you would see all my pron Feb 08 23:45:06 I definitely don't want to see what your taste is ... ;-) Feb 08 23:45:33 rwhitby: ok.. since you won't sell me one of yours, make them sell me one wholesale. Feb 08 23:45:49 i'll let them optware all they want on it. Feb 08 23:46:01 Cuz i'll be using optware for the deamons. Feb 08 23:46:09 s/deamons/daemons/ Feb 08 23:46:11 dBsooner meant: Cuz i'll be using optware for the daemons. Feb 08 23:46:34 dBsooner: how this for an idea: You choose the device you think will suit your individual needs, then you buy it. A crazy idea, I know, but it just might work ... Feb 08 23:46:57 rwhitby: too much leg work Feb 08 23:47:28 heh, the leg work on my side has already exceeded my threshold just discussing it ... Feb 08 23:47:30 Like I said, I am looking at the QNAP 2XX line.. just can't decide the difference betwen teh "PRO" and "standard" lines Feb 08 23:47:41 Pro is more memory. Feb 08 23:47:53 and yes, I will be buying it from a US retailer. Sheesh. Feb 08 23:48:15 rwhitby: but both should be able to use optware, no? Feb 08 23:48:37 yep, pretty much any qnap or synology device will run optware. Feb 08 23:48:54 About time! Feb 08 23:49:01 ? Feb 08 23:49:03 They changed the google search for WebOS Feb 08 23:49:06 lol Feb 08 23:49:10 Looks and works soo much better Feb 08 23:49:47 rwhitby: are the qnap's an http console? or can you actually ssh into them? Feb 08 23:50:39 both qnaps and synology have ssh access out of the box. Feb 08 23:51:43 how would you modify a locked gps on the pre plus Feb 08 23:52:13 rwhitby: got a min? Feb 08 23:52:22 PuffTheMagic_: yep Feb 08 23:52:50 rwhitby: so trac is pretty useless right now cause users cant create accounts Feb 08 23:52:56 there is a plugin though Feb 08 23:53:03 which makes this happen Feb 08 23:53:22 but my python2.5 is broke so i cant build it Feb 08 23:53:52 heh, are you *really* sure you want to let people create their own accounts so they can write "I can't install wircd because I don't have developer mode turned on" in 50 different ways clogging up your development planning tool? Feb 08 23:53:52 but i sorta think it should be part of all the tracs we host Feb 08 23:54:45 rwhitby: yes, i beleive that a good bug tracker allows users to create new bugs Feb 08 23:54:51 or tickets Feb 08 23:55:09 else its justs a todo list for developers Feb 08 23:55:43 ok, what's the plugin, and how secure is it? how will you stop spam? Feb 08 23:56:15 well i couldnt test it cause i couldnt build it for the servers python Feb 08 23:56:26 but i would assume it has e-mail verification at least Feb 08 23:56:32 which should stop spam Feb 08 23:56:41 rwhitby: im not saying we use the module "as is" Feb 08 23:56:45 cause i was thinking Feb 08 23:57:00 it would be pretty stupid if users had to make a new account for each project Feb 08 23:57:48 maybe it would be better if it were 1 large trac with multiple projects Feb 08 23:57:54 can that even be done? Feb 08 23:58:16 rwhitby: im sorta thinking out loud here, not saying "i want this now" Feb 09 00:00:12 so I take it that was a "no" to running a website locally on the pre :/ Feb 09 00:02:46 well lighttpd is in the optware repo Feb 09 00:03:48 I don't really want to serve up sites, just view one locally in the browser Feb 09 00:03:54 VincentLaw: Look in Preware - Lighty Web Server Feb 09 00:03:54 to see if there's a performance difference Feb 09 00:05:38 why not run an ftp server instead Feb 09 00:05:54 * VincentLaw cries Feb 09 00:06:51 have you tried pointing the browser to an html file on the filesystem? Feb 09 00:09:46 acydlord: I heard a while back that the pre's browser doesn't let you do that by default Feb 09 00:09:51 unless there's some trick to it Feb 09 00:10:52 yeah, it gives a can not display local files Feb 09 00:11:05 i'm sure that could be patched if someone were to look into it Feb 09 00:13:47 Someday I'll sit down and figure out why preware breaks on every new internal build Feb 09 00:14:21 chrisa that's a really good question. Feb 09 00:26:06 Breaks in what way? Feb 09 00:34:59 zsoc: "internal build" indicates that he probably cannot disclose that information ;-) Feb 09 00:37:31 OH Feb 09 00:37:33 yes i suppose Feb 09 00:37:39 rwhitby: this user agent thing is confusing :D Feb 09 00:37:45 hmm.. i wonder how it works once it hits the production floor? Feb 09 00:38:26 * dBsooner just sees chrisa running into the rest of the engineers ans screaming, "GUYS (and GALS!) PREWARE DOESN"T WORK ON THIS BUILD! YOU MUST FIX THIS BEFORE RELEASE!" Feb 09 00:38:43 I'm just confused by the words "preware" and "internal build" used in the same sentence Feb 09 00:38:55 why? Feb 09 00:39:02 because we have palm engineers that like us? Feb 09 00:39:05 dBsooner: i can't imagine him 'screaming' about anything :) Feb 09 00:39:11 dBsooner: yes, that is odd to me :/ Feb 09 00:39:13 chrisa: screams rather loudly. Feb 09 00:39:20 hehe Feb 09 00:39:21 why wouldn't palm engineers like us? we're likeable Feb 09 00:39:35 Maybe you guys are. I'm not terribly likable. Feb 09 00:39:45 * swishy hugs zsoc Feb 09 00:39:47 People (rwhitby) think I am annoying. Feb 09 00:39:48 sure you are! Feb 09 00:39:50 But hey, that's ok. Feb 09 00:39:50 ;) Feb 09 00:40:03 swishy: :D Feb 09 00:40:09 swishy: who are you again? Feb 09 00:40:43 seriously. agent key forwarding just blew my mind Feb 09 00:42:07 zsoc: :( Feb 09 00:42:08 lol Feb 09 00:42:27 swishy: i wasn't trying to be mean :( Feb 09 00:42:44 bbl Feb 09 00:45:06 ~heh Feb 09 00:45:07 heh Feb 09 00:45:25 John shouldn;t tell about 1.4 coming in february I check the updates app everyday now Feb 09 00:45:29 S: Feb 09 00:47:07 * jacques won't start checking til the 28th. Feb 09 00:47:24 zsoc: I know :) Feb 09 00:47:42 * rwhitby will wait for the twitter complaints that patches aren't working, then will check. Feb 09 00:48:06 rwhitby, hehe :) Feb 09 00:48:08 Preware is simply an early warning system for new webOS versions .. Feb 09 00:48:14 jacques, probably I should do the same thing... Feb 09 00:48:15 :) Feb 09 00:48:29 Ok, I somehow ended up with two trees in my git... Feb 09 00:48:37 rwhitby: not to bug you, but you seem to be the git master around here Feb 09 00:48:45 * rwhitby bbl Feb 09 00:48:52 ok so I have to go to sprint store tomorrow before the snow storm hits on wednesday Feb 09 00:49:01 I guess I edited some files locally, added, and commited, but it was before I did a git pull (and there were remote file updates since my last pull) Feb 09 00:49:07 egaudet: maybe you can help? :D Feb 09 00:49:18 and tell them to replace my cracked pre... Feb 09 00:49:44 help what Feb 09 00:49:58 uh.. undo my mess Feb 09 00:50:03 what did ya do Feb 09 00:50:49 egaudet: read 2 lines up? lol. I added files, and commited, before pulling newest remote files, so i have two trees. Also I have one 'edited' file, so that's giving me a problem when i try to push Feb 09 00:50:51 give me some pastebin output of your git pull Feb 09 00:51:22 http://webos.pastebin.com/d16df5df4 Feb 09 00:52:03 try to force pull Feb 09 00:52:07 ;D Feb 09 00:52:15 --force? Feb 09 00:52:44 ya Feb 09 00:52:53 same result Feb 09 00:53:23 i dont care about my change to that 1 file Feb 09 00:53:28 should i just delete my local version? Feb 09 00:54:27 zsoc, that is such limited information! Feb 09 00:54:34 rm -rf repo && git clone git..... Feb 09 00:54:45 zsoc, what did you do exactly in order Feb 09 00:54:58 ooo, 'merge made by recursive' Feb 09 00:55:06 glib-2.0/Makefile Feb 09 00:55:10 git status glib-2.0/Makefile Feb 09 00:55:14 did you modify that and not commit it? Feb 09 00:55:29 zsoc: if you don't care about the local change, delete the local file and git pull Feb 09 00:55:30 egaudet: i had a (relatively) older version of the git. i then added directories/files. i then made a commit. i failed to push, so now i just pulled, but still have two trees no? Feb 09 00:55:51 egaudet: jacques: yes, i just deleted that one file and pulled successfully. do i need to re-add/re-commit my changes or no? Feb 09 00:57:21 you don't have two trees Feb 09 00:57:31 you need to push now Feb 09 00:57:33 oh well then nevermind :p Feb 09 00:57:38 thank you, sorry i made this over-complicated Feb 09 00:57:41 the problem was a locally editted and NOT committed file Feb 09 00:57:46 i see Feb 09 01:00:31 egaudet: please let me know if i get as annoying as dBsooner ;) Feb 09 01:02:05 egaudet: hmm... now my commit message was overwritten by a branch merch message Feb 09 01:02:26 that included no files, haha.. ok i'll just add and re commit.. Feb 09 01:05:00 JayCanuck: hello joe :) Feb 09 01:05:11 hi zsoc Feb 09 01:08:25 JayCanuck: anything exciting? Feb 09 01:08:48 meh, not really Feb 09 01:09:05 escaping from homework, lol Feb 09 01:11:25 JayCanuck: I've got a proposal for you that allows FileMgr and SysToolsMgr to continue working after a webOS Doctor if the postinst scripts are written in a certain way ... Feb 09 01:12:03 zsoc, all figured out? Feb 09 01:12:08 pastebin if not Feb 09 01:14:00 egaudet: er... sort of. now i did an add/commit but left the build folders in by accident. so i did a 'reset', then removed the build folders, then readded the proper folder/files, then add -a Feb 09 01:17:52 er, commit -a Feb 09 01:26:11 egaudet: lol sooooo... apparently i made two commits, one WITH all 4000+ files, and then one REMOVING all of them BUT the 4 Makefiles... lol... is it ok? can i leave it like that? Feb 09 01:26:34 you should make another commit with a comment saying "SORRY" Feb 09 01:26:35 :p Feb 09 01:28:01 oh god it's such a messy commit :( Feb 09 01:28:10 zsoc: have you pushed yet? Feb 09 01:28:33 rwhitby: yeah... http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/cross-compile.git;a=summary <--- i didn't realize till after i did it Feb 09 01:28:56 well, i sort of realized _while_ i was doing it Feb 09 01:29:12 when it took 4000x longer than it was supposed to? :p Feb 09 01:29:20 VincentLaw: precisely Feb 09 01:29:30 hmm Feb 09 01:29:43 Hmm Feb 09 01:29:49 I was blaming our builds, not preware Feb 09 01:29:54 everyone laugh at me, just get it over with Feb 09 01:29:56 How would you know what voodoo we do day to day Feb 09 01:30:34 chrisa: yeah, the other guys didn't have the context of what "internal builds" meant :-) Feb 09 01:30:57 opinions: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=cat13504&type=page&pageIdentity=searchDriven&useProductString=true&productString=1218123847836*1218154378383*1218123849552&unProductString=1218159865608*1218156775517*1218161854811&catId= Feb 09 01:31:14 It could also be an issue with quickinstall Feb 09 01:31:16 To be fair Feb 09 01:31:19 * swishy points to tinyurl.com Feb 09 01:31:20 hehe Feb 09 01:31:44 Though I don't really like quickinstall since I have no idea what it's trying to do Feb 09 01:31:45 dBsooner: none of those are macs :crossarms: Feb 09 01:31:57 VincentLaw: I only have a $1500 shopping spree Feb 09 01:32:07 I can't get a quad core MBP for 1500 Feb 09 01:32:13 all of those are Quad Core's Feb 09 01:32:19 for best buy specifically? Feb 09 01:32:25 VincentLaw: yes Feb 09 01:32:37 ah oh well, was going to refer you to apple's refurb page :p Feb 09 01:32:47 lol.. has to be best buy Feb 09 01:32:47 rwhitby: can you undo this? Feb 09 01:32:50 chrisa: you should use http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap from the command line :-) Feb 09 01:33:01 zsoc: once it's pushed, it's pushed. Feb 09 01:33:08 rwhitby: I know exactly what internal builds meant Feb 09 01:33:20 rwhitby: which means stuff we will never have access to. Feb 09 01:33:43 rwhitby: hmph, i seem to remember you playing around with my commits in the past... Feb 09 01:33:58 zsoc: git reset HASH Feb 09 01:34:16 zsoc: that was when no-one else had pulled the repo Feb 09 01:34:20 Something about including a bit.ly url in a shell script makes me chuckle Feb 09 01:34:43 chrisa: it's typed frequently on-device :> Feb 09 01:34:51 chrisa: it was either that or make you type in a million characters to get the raw output from a Git repo Feb 09 01:35:12 Anyone every had a Sony Vaio laptop? Feb 09 01:35:13 chrisa: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/preware-bootstrap.sh is the real link Feb 09 01:35:24 I am kind of leaning towards it over the HP ENVY. Feb 09 01:35:55 chrisa: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/master/preware-bootstrap.sh will let you review the script before running it. Feb 09 01:35:58 I've never heard good things about Vaio Feb 09 01:36:11 hmm Feb 09 01:36:38 zsoc: to correct this, you would need to track down all committers, and make them reclone from a version which has a rewritten history. Feb 09 01:37:19 rwhitby: this is precisely the type of thing i've always feared causing D: Feb 09 01:37:39 rwhitby: i can't git reset the commits? Feb 09 01:37:40 dBsooner, why not a lenovo? /me hugs his S10 Feb 09 01:37:43 Interesting: http://discussion.treocentral.com/web-os-development/229532-question-webos-internals-regarding-tv-output.html Feb 09 01:38:22 best buy doesn't sell lenovos does it? Feb 09 01:38:26 cause if they do, I'd recommend them Feb 09 01:38:38 they don't Feb 09 01:38:56 ah... boo Feb 09 01:39:09 tv output would be interesting Feb 09 01:39:25 ahh they do Feb 09 01:39:32 but nothing more than a dual core Feb 09 01:39:50 tv's are all just LCD monitors these days anyway Feb 09 01:40:42 cards are slippery sometimes :P Feb 09 01:40:45 heh Feb 09 01:41:43 what if i revert HEAD? Feb 09 01:41:49 why do you want quad core on a laptop anyway Feb 09 01:42:51 to use up battery faster, of course Feb 09 01:43:05 there has to be a way to do this, i refuse to give up Feb 09 01:43:14 maybe jacques is a super git guru D: Feb 09 01:43:53 I can barely use git Feb 09 01:44:22 sorry, I use it but for one-man projects so I don't know a lot of the commands / recovery procedures Feb 09 01:45:26 history is sacred from what i remember with git Feb 09 01:46:15 yep, even if you reverted now, and pushed the changed history, anyone who pulled in the meantime would just push the old history back again. Feb 09 01:46:40 git rever will make a commit reverting the commit Feb 09 01:47:35 rwhitby: what if i do it _really fast_ .. i doubt anyone's pulled in the last 15 minutes? Feb 09 01:49:49 what are we trying to do? Feb 09 01:52:14 zsoc: you can try it. Feb 09 01:52:31 rwhitby: might you enumerate how? Feb 09 01:52:44 i reverted by hash to before those commits Feb 09 01:52:45 now what? Feb 09 01:56:00 rwhitby: since i reverted, i can't push without fast forward.. something like "git push origin +master:master", but I wouldn't want to do this without your go ahead Feb 09 01:56:38 I have no idea whether that will work or not. Feb 09 01:56:53 you've exceeded my git knowledge Feb 09 01:57:51 I'm using the dyndns page to set up a reverse ssh tunnel back to my machine. However, the ip route commands listed in Type A yields: Error: an inet address is expected rather than "dev". Feb 09 01:57:59 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_Linux_DDNS_Update_Client_wget Feb 09 01:58:29 dick-richardson: what did you find out about vzw blocking ports? Feb 09 01:59:34 jacques: that's it's better to just ssh into my house with a reverse tunnel back into the phone. They were most unhelpful. :/ Feb 09 01:59:52 ah :-\ Feb 09 02:01:10 is there a way to tell a pre to not use the cell network for data? Feb 09 02:01:25 RMind: there's a switch in the phone prefs Feb 09 02:02:17 the verizon website let me put together a pre and plan that didn't include data, though the person at the store said it was required Feb 09 02:02:19 RMind: turn off data in the phone app preferences Feb 09 02:02:48 dick-richardson: maybe $IPREMOTE is evaluating to empty string? Feb 09 02:02:50 I didn't actually hit the check out button though Feb 09 02:02:55 RMind: you will need data to activate the phone and create a palm profile, unless you use something like the meta-doctor. Feb 09 02:03:14 jacques: good point... Feb 09 02:03:47 yep, that's it Feb 09 02:04:20 where are those variables set? Feb 09 02:04:57 the site states pppd will set them...could that service not be running? Feb 09 02:05:39 rwhitby: i just did something really _really_ bad. it's fixed now, and i successfully reverted the history.. but i suggest in the future, anyone even considering doing this, should immediately be scolded and have their commit privileges removed for 1 week Feb 09 02:06:17 dick-richardson: if the script is /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/09update-ddns Feb 09 02:06:33 I assume pppd executes the script with its env Feb 09 02:06:41 zsoc: I usually take the position that people make mistakes, and if they fix them then they've done the penance already. Feb 09 02:07:10 i.e. you cannot just run the script manually Feb 09 02:07:31 yeah, you'd need to set env vars before running it Feb 09 02:08:35 rwhitby: I see... well in the spirit of full disclosure, I 'git push origin :master && git push origin master' , which if i'm not mistaken, actually deletes the remote git in it's entirety, and for a moment (while pushing) the repo ceases to exist on the remote end. Feb 09 02:09:31 seems like that would be a rather large security hole in git Feb 09 02:09:48 it seems that we do need to educate committers about how to set up their git config though ... Feb 09 02:09:49 z Feb 09 02:09:50 and also screws with the head history beyong recognition Feb 09 02:10:05 scip Feb 09 02:10:07 rwhitby: again, a new box :p last time you're the one that fixed that heh Feb 09 02:10:26 jacques: not a security hole, he _gave_ me access... so that's how that works, heh Feb 09 02:11:07 rwhitby: what would be your definition of a properly "set up" git config? Feb 09 02:11:12 jacques: yeah, PuffTheMagic_ requested delete permissions Feb 09 02:11:30 zsoc: a name and email address that can be used to contact the committer. Feb 09 02:11:38 oh wait, you mean i don't have permission to do what i just did? hmmm Feb 09 02:11:39 rwhitby: kk Feb 09 02:12:20 jacques: its not a security hole, if a user does something stupid, its just a person being stupid Feb 09 02:12:29 they are being stupid with ssh key access Feb 09 02:12:36 which is secure stupidity Feb 09 02:12:37 ;) Feb 09 02:12:47 but hey, i fixed my 8000 file dirty commit :p Feb 09 02:14:19 jacques: I have the script named /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/09rev-ssh Feb 09 02:15:07 dick-richardson: and the script is being executed by pppd ? Feb 09 02:15:10 pppd is running, but the script doesn't appear to be getting called - it's perms are 755 Feb 09 02:17:09 dick-richardson: I don't know when the script's supposed to be run by pppd, but I'd assume maybe on startup Feb 09 02:17:18 dick-richardson: have you restarted pppd? Feb 09 02:17:23 jacques: same here, restarted the phone Feb 09 02:17:26 fontenot@ubuntu00.(none) ooops Feb 09 02:17:47 rwhitby: heh I guess I never config'd git in the vm Feb 09 02:17:48 going to change the script to touch a file in /media/internal, then reboot Feb 09 02:18:08 dick-richardson: does the tutorial say where pppd logs ? Feb 09 02:18:26 I would try restarting pppd before rebooting Feb 09 02:18:44 and watching any relevant logs Feb 09 02:20:35 not sure where the logs are Feb 09 02:32:30 the script is getting called; finding out what exactly is getting called - still not sure where the pppd logs are Feb 09 02:32:56 or why the ssh tunnel isn't coming up Feb 09 02:35:55 the answer: because I'm dumb - for convenience I keep my most commonly used ssh commands in a script. That script isn't in the path when pppd is coming up. Feb 09 02:37:06 I should be sent home to think about what I've done. Feb 09 02:38:19 dick-richardson: grep pppd /var/log/messages Feb 09 02:39:14 jacques: I have it working on pppd restart, now trying a full reboot for grins Feb 09 02:39:25 ok Feb 09 02:39:35 jacques: thank you! Feb 09 02:40:27 dick-richardson: you're welcome Feb 09 02:41:38 dick-richardson: do you have a wiki page where you are documenting this setup for others to use? Feb 09 02:41:51 (that is always the best way to show thanks) Feb 09 02:43:15 rwhitby: that dyndns is spot on...I'm just a n00b Feb 09 02:44:33 rwhitby: he was following http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_Linux_DDNS_Update_Client_wget Feb 09 02:44:37 Hi All. What is the best way now to call a PDK app? appinfo.json? Feb 09 02:47:44 zonyl: type:game is fine for anything that doesn't need root access, as we suspect that root access will go away for type:game in a future webOS version. Feb 09 02:51:30 only suspect,though Feb 09 02:52:32 So why does 'make stage' seem to rebuild packages if the build/ folders are removed? Feb 09 02:52:37 rwhitby: Ah. I thought root access was required for SDL stuff? Feb 09 02:53:04 it appears to be right now, but maybe not intentionally Feb 09 02:53:26 I tried running some SDL apps as non-root, but I got errors Feb 09 02:53:36 they run fine as root tho Feb 09 02:53:37 jacques: My experience as well Feb 09 02:54:44 this was even after adding y user to the video group (for /dev/fb1 access) Feb 09 02:55:14 *** glibc detected *** ./sdl_mipmap: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x000190f0 *** Feb 09 02:55:21 zsoc: Im so happy. I implemented panning in my SDL vnc program. It was a blast trying to figure out how to do a drag / pan / mouse up / algorithm. ;) Feb 09 02:55:27 runs fine as root Feb 09 02:55:43 zsoc: Going to try and add some velocity next Feb 09 02:56:01 hey, are there any pages describing how to get SDL apps compiling for the pre? Feb 09 02:56:03 zonyl: did you update the git repo yet? Feb 09 02:56:13 I was going to try and get glgears running on the pre as an exercise Feb 09 02:56:17 jacques: As soon as I remember how ;) Feb 09 02:56:17 gaffo_home: yep, the WIDK pages Feb 09 02:56:30 zonyl: lol yeah I know the feeling Feb 09 02:56:45 zonyl: holy crap does it work? Feb 09 02:57:01 rwhitby, on webos-internals.org? Feb 09 02:57:06 gaffo_home: yep Feb 09 02:57:19 zsoc: Yep. My code is very scary but it works. Im at the point of re-write already, but ill save that for another rainy day. Feb 09 02:58:06 zonyl: really fun :) you need to get some dev- testers in here... or someone who'll write you a wiki like VincentLaw Feb 09 02:58:35 rwhitby, a search only shows me a Hid page Feb 09 02:58:55 zsoc: Another wiki? I created this page a while ago. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:SdlVNC Feb 09 02:58:56 gaffo_home: big banner, top of front page Feb 09 02:59:15 rwhitby, if it was a snake I'd be dead :) Feb 09 02:59:47 zonyl: yes, something more from the "average advanced user" standpoint, a bit more step by step with troubleshooting etc **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 09 02:59:56 2010