**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 04 02:59:58 2010 Apr 04 03:00:05 id like 780,000 firefox users dev my browser. Apr 04 03:00:50 nod, though would make more sense since pre is webkit/v8 to find somethign closer to that like chrome Apr 04 03:01:12 they would have to reduce the footprint of FF to make it work on a pre(almost at all) Apr 04 03:02:35 yeah right? Apr 04 03:02:54 ka6sox i was thinking operamobile or somthing Apr 04 03:03:06 i mean,.. safari / explorer Apr 04 03:03:11 where is the linux browser Apr 04 03:03:25 for mobiles Apr 04 03:03:35 there are quite a few linux browsers that use webkit Apr 04 03:04:01 still weak. Apr 04 03:04:08 there is a mobile version of firefox Apr 04 03:04:24 mobile good... Apr 04 03:04:43 java made a web browser. Apr 04 03:04:52 they doing anything for mobiles? Apr 04 03:05:03 (HEH, a Java web browser) Apr 04 03:05:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_for_mobile Apr 04 03:06:24 but Pre is not firefox or gecko based Apr 04 03:06:26 which is why I ask Apr 04 03:06:49 the point? Apr 04 03:07:12 linux mobile needs an open browser. Apr 04 03:07:26 Google chromium is open source, and webkit based Apr 04 03:07:35 22:44 < oc80z> scary to see where palm's web browser is headed. Apr 04 03:07:35 22:45 < oc80z> (firefox) Apr 04 03:07:40 yeah that made no sense Apr 04 03:07:52 windows mobile has explorer Apr 04 03:07:59 iphone has its safari Apr 04 03:08:02 can't you replace the webkit so and luna will still work? Apr 04 03:08:04 or not Apr 04 03:08:19 somehow I though that was a requirement of LGPL Apr 04 03:08:44 and webOS has webkit, the same engine in Safari and Chrome Apr 04 03:08:54 ... which I need to hack. Apr 04 03:09:02 but Firefox uses Gecko (NGLayout) which is an engine that replaced the Netscape 4 renderer Apr 04 03:09:10 lingfish: ? Apr 04 03:09:38 my point was, palm developers might not have the grunts to program a webos browser as sufficient as the others. Apr 04 03:09:50 Fennec is pretty bad Apr 04 03:09:51 sadly Apr 04 03:10:07 and there's not really a path to render it on webOS anyway Apr 04 03:10:17 plus you would lose the point of webOS or have massive duplication Apr 04 03:10:32 since webOS apps are also rendered (sort of) by it's browser Apr 04 03:10:39 yea Apr 04 03:10:53 being widgetized Apr 04 03:11:29 ..with no undo Apr 04 03:11:41 regardless, im drunk Apr 04 03:12:29 gl cruel world, Apr 04 03:12:31 ;[ Apr 04 03:14:01 * jacques blames wirc for all the recent drunk irc'ing Apr 04 03:14:11 has there been any research on doing serial comm (tty or rs232) over the pre's usb port? Apr 04 03:14:37 JustinHoMi: not that I'm aware of Apr 04 03:15:02 early on Apr 04 03:15:05 oh Apr 04 03:15:09 Pre, not sure Apr 04 03:16:19 is it a host port too? Apr 04 03:18:52 not sure if it's supports usb host Apr 04 03:30:41 er, wtf... Backup is configured to "automatically every day""... and yet it says last backup was on Jan?!?? Apr 04 03:30:50 Is that too a known issue? Apr 04 03:35:28 JustinHoMi, probably better to work on BT Serial Apr 04 03:35:36 that should work. Apr 04 03:36:09 ka6sox: I'm doing research on that now... there's no BT SPP profile yet Apr 04 03:36:54 ka6sox: just searching the filesystem for relevant strings to see where to get started. trying to see if they use an open source bluetooth stack or something custom Apr 04 03:37:30 thats a good place to start. Apr 04 03:39:55 JustinHoMi, look for BlueZ (or the lower case equivelent) Apr 04 03:40:04 yeah, hehe I did Apr 04 03:40:12 couldn't find it... looks like a custom bluetooth stack Apr 04 03:40:42 http://randomfoo.net/sandbox/palmpre/bluetooth.txt looks like someone else is donig a bit of research on this too Apr 04 03:40:58 interestingly enough, the logs show "SPP_init_converter" Apr 04 03:41:17 along w/ the rest of the supported profiles... so maybe it's partially implemented Apr 04 03:44:03 I'm so very tempted to try the 800mhz patch... but I'm scared :( Apr 04 03:44:12 hmm, /usr/bin/PmBtStack -h references "Casira" -> http://www.csr.com/development/casira.htm Apr 04 03:44:32 lingfish: do it, it's great Apr 04 03:45:08 Well let me ask this.. how, in theory, could it fry the phone, or shorten it's life, when the CPU is actually rated to go that high?!? Apr 04 03:45:27 i thought it was only rated up to 600mhz Apr 04 03:45:29 I haven't looked deep into the hack, but I just assume nothing special was done with timer clocks or kernel ticks to speed it up Apr 04 03:45:37 It's just that Palm limited it, right? Apr 04 03:45:54 palm limited it to 500mhz, except recently for games Apr 04 03:46:06 so what, they take it up to 600? Apr 04 03:46:18 yeah, i believe so Apr 04 03:46:52 Hrm, perhaps I'll just try 600 then... and not sure if it'll work on 1.4.1 (seems to, from what I read) Apr 04 03:47:26 JustinHoMi, what does dmesg say about BT? Apr 04 03:47:49 nuthin at all Apr 04 03:47:58 lsmod Apr 04 03:48:09 nada Apr 04 03:49:43 And can the patch just be done via an ssh to the Pre, instead of using WOQI? Apr 04 03:51:49 lingfish: i used WOQI, but i'm pretty sure you could just ssh in. but i wouldn't install it w/ 1.4.1 until it's confirmed working. I'm using 1.4.0 (i disabled the Update Daemon) Apr 04 03:51:51 JustinHoMi, anything BlueCore? Apr 04 03:52:02 yeah, i'm looking for the BlueCore stuff now Apr 04 03:52:51 JustinHoMi: thanks... I thought it was confirmed for 1.4.1, but not 1.4.1.1 (which being on a .de GSM, I won't see anyway) Apr 04 03:53:18 pretty sure that's what it is... when running PmBtStack the logs spit out [Core] several times Apr 04 03:53:33 lingfish: I'm not sure, i haven't looked @ the big thread yet Apr 04 03:55:09 i wonder if there are an open source drivers for the bluecore chipsets Apr 04 03:55:20 if so, could probably replace the builtin stack w/ an alternate one Apr 04 03:55:59 hmm Apr 04 03:57:47 as an april fools joke i should have tried to convince developers to run a script that executed git config --add push.default nothing Apr 04 03:57:52 that would have been amusing for a few days Apr 04 03:59:15 blah Apr 04 03:59:18 april fools Apr 04 03:59:28 ugh... the latest facebook beta keeps notifying me over and over :( Apr 04 03:59:37 my employees *filled* my office with balloons... all by removing a couple ceiling tiles Apr 04 04:00:21 took hours to pop them all Apr 04 04:02:58 JustinHoMi, doesn't look like BlueZ supports BCHS (BlueCore Host Support) Apr 04 04:03:48 ah bluetooth, I wish the Pre could utilize OBEX... Apr 04 04:06:28 ka6sox: that's a shame... Apr 04 04:08:12 its proprietary Apr 04 04:08:34 :( Apr 04 04:10:42 JustinHoMi: I've just done a bunch of reading, and others are doing it fine on 1.4.1 it seems. Is the ipk version ready though do you know? I don't see it anywhere Apr 04 04:11:06 ka6sox: PmBtStack | grep -i spp gives me 230 hits... so maybe an email to palm will convince them to finish what they started Apr 04 04:11:25 lingfish, ipk version of what? Apr 04 04:11:37 lingfish: it's been a few days since i've checked, but i didn't see an ipk version of the 800mhz kernel Apr 04 04:11:39 600mhz patch Apr 04 04:11:47 I'm not keen yet to goto 800 Apr 04 04:11:47 OK, So exactly which of the "ambulance" "tools" do I want to run after a webos doctor to a new version of the OS to reinstall my patches? Apr 04 04:11:59 If Palm clock up to 600 for games, I'm happy with just that for now Apr 04 04:12:11 lingfish: the best way to upgrade to 600mhz is to do it manually from the commandline Apr 04 04:12:14 So I'm just trying to work out if its still just a bash install script, or something more formal Apr 04 04:12:31 lingfish: you can temporarily overclock it, and a simple reboot will put the clock back to normal Apr 04 04:12:35 Em. Patch Installer? Apr 04 04:12:59 JustinHoMi: oh? Do tell... I mean, technically it isn't OCing to 600 ;) Apr 04 04:13:09 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_CPU_Frequency_or_Voltage_Scaling Apr 04 04:13:20 thanks heaps Apr 04 04:13:50 i ran that for a little while and couldn't really tell a difference, but the benchmarks did show an improvement... but 800mhz is a whole different story Apr 04 04:13:59 800mhz is so sexy Apr 04 04:14:11 oddly enough, my Pre is more stable at 800mhz than manually overclocking to 600mhz Apr 04 04:14:32 it's because marco is a genius Apr 04 04:14:35 i need to buy him a beer Apr 04 04:14:38 The manual overclock doesn't update the kernel so... Apr 04 04:14:38 and a sandwich Apr 04 04:15:21 Because higher frequencies may cause overheating, and TI has noted a significant decrease in the life of the processor when running above 500mHz, you should also restrict the frequency scaling to 500mHz Apr 04 04:15:23 The OS probably has some assumption of the clock speed built into some timing somewhere and then ay 600 oops. Apr 04 04:15:25 gah :( Apr 04 04:16:05 there isn't much you can do with that problem Apr 04 04:16:25 MerlinMM: the issue you're referring to is being worked on by an update which has already begun development. If you can't fix with a simple "update all", then running those utilities is really only a last ditch effort Apr 04 04:16:59 Zsoc: thanks. Apr 04 04:17:03 Man... if TI say don't do it, that doesn't bode well. Apr 04 04:17:37 Zsoc: update all is no good because I have nothing to update... Apr 04 04:17:48 errrr... check this out! Apr 04 04:18:02 root@palm-webos-device:/var/home/root# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq Apr 04 04:18:05 600000 Apr 04 04:18:11 And I've never touched any kern patches, or OCing stuff. Apr 04 04:18:13 MerlinMM: i believe the reconstruction utility is based on the list_installed method of ipkg... which i don't believe is carried over a doctor Apr 04 04:18:21 lingfish, the SoC probably doesn't have the substrate bonding so you can overclock it without burning things up early Apr 04 04:18:21 lingfish: that's common Apr 04 04:18:23 1.4.1 brings 600mhz out by default it seems? Apr 04 04:18:29 lingfish: especially if you run sdl stuff (app cat games even) Apr 04 04:18:43 I run zero games. Apr 04 04:18:44 nada. Apr 04 04:18:44 Lingfish: really? Apr 04 04:19:01 lingfish: palm may have pushed it to 600 in 1.4.1.1? a lot of people are saying it's snappier lol Apr 04 04:19:02 In fact I just sym-R'd Apr 04 04:19:17 No, I'm on 1.4.1, but hey... proof is right there... Apr 04 04:19:21 it would seem they have? Apr 04 04:19:25 i never understood why it wasn't running at 600 Apr 04 04:19:29 it really is safe Apr 04 04:19:57 hey a webchatter Apr 04 04:20:05 :) Apr 04 04:20:18 root@palm-webos-device:/var/home/root# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state Apr 04 04:20:21 600000 0 Apr 04 04:20:23 550000 1140 Apr 04 04:20:26 500000 39620 Apr 04 04:20:27 how bizarre.... so it has never actually used 600... Apr 04 04:20:29 250000 0 Apr 04 04:20:32 125000 0 Apr 04 04:20:35 probably only kicks in for games... Apr 04 04:20:46 but the max is now 600. I guess that kinda makes sense. Apr 04 04:20:54 So, somewhat of a false alarm. Apr 04 04:20:58 it was like that before Apr 04 04:21:07 max was always 600 Apr 04 04:21:21 JustinHoMi: not according to that internals wiki you just posted. Apr 04 04:21:29 at least, in 1.4 and 1.3.5(?) Apr 04 04:21:45 So, scaling must now be on too, checking Apr 04 04:22:21 Lingfish: 600 was always there (I poked around on OS 1.0), it just doesn't get used because during boot Palm sets to 500 only. Apr 04 04:22:58 it's 'underclocked' you could say Apr 04 04:22:58 ok, so the wiki misleads a bit. Apr 04 04:23:10 root@palm-webos-device:/var/home/root# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor Apr 04 04:23:13 userspace Apr 04 04:23:16 So scaling isn't on Apr 04 04:23:21 correct Apr 04 04:23:22 Lingfish: let me know if Palm's changed the settings, I'd love to see a little 600 time. Apr 04 04:23:26 i don't think anything changed in that department Apr 04 04:23:48 :-( Apr 04 04:23:57 right Apr 04 04:24:02 hmm. Apr 04 04:24:09 so back to the 600mhz kernel I guess. Apr 04 04:24:09 Merlin... is... jeff? Apr 04 04:24:41 Zsoc: I've got the list of patches on /media/internal/.webosinternals.pat... Apr 04 04:25:00 Zsoc: MerlinMM is Merlin Meyer-Mitchell. Apr 04 04:25:09 i see Apr 04 04:25:20 egaudet could give you the answer you're looking for Apr 04 04:25:32 Zsoc: surely there's a method to run over the patches and install them all... Apr 04 04:25:41 So would you suggest that I try turning on the ondemand govenor? Or won't do anything with the stock kernel? Apr 04 04:26:07 Zsoc: I can write my own script but I thought sure one of those Emergency... Would be set for this. Apr 04 04:26:42 1 sec Apr 04 04:26:47 Lingfish: after reading some horror stories in the forums way back when, I decided not to mess with it with stock kernel. Apr 04 04:26:57 zodttd: yo Apr 04 04:27:04 MerlinMM: righto Apr 04 04:27:34 MerlinMM: Emergency Patch Installer Apr 04 04:27:42 Egaudet: if you see this - AWESOME job on the wIRC keeping configuration through a doctoring. Apr 04 04:27:45 meh.. I think the sh install patches are disabled :( Apr 04 04:28:00 Zsoc: OK. Here goes... Apr 04 04:28:14 wait Apr 04 04:28:17 lol Apr 04 04:28:18 or did you do it already? Apr 04 04:28:19 lol Apr 04 04:28:21 Zsoc: OK Apr 04 04:28:24 No Apr 04 04:28:26 whew Apr 04 04:28:36 MerlinMM: there's a small issue Apr 04 04:28:36 I'm lost. Apr 04 04:28:51 What's the worst it can do. I just doctored my phone... Apr 04 04:28:54 MerlinMM: you will likely try to reinstall patches which are not compatible with the other version you updated from Apr 04 04:29:26 OH Apr 04 04:29:27 nevermind Apr 04 04:29:30 that's the service enabler Apr 04 04:29:36 the Patch Installer actually grabs the new ones Apr 04 04:29:36 ha Apr 04 04:29:39 what a good idea lol Apr 04 04:29:45 Zsoc: so that'll install the raw identical patches instead of looking for the 1.4.1.1 versions? Apr 04 04:29:46 * zsoc should keep up with these things Apr 04 04:29:55 Oh. Apr 04 04:30:01 MerlinMM: Apparently the Patch Installer does what you want to do, so ignore me :p Apr 04 04:30:31 I knew they had to have set this up cause I remember they made a bih deal about the AUPT patches around 1.3.5 time. Apr 04 04:30:44 Zsoc: THANKS! Apr 04 04:31:14 i imagine when you're running the emulator, 320x400 is the pixi and 320x480 is the pre? Apr 04 04:31:35 tshile: correct Apr 04 04:31:46 albeit that's more #webos territory Apr 04 04:31:50 :) Apr 04 04:33:17 Zsoc: Nope. "no patches found"... Apr 04 04:33:38 hmm Apr 04 04:33:39 buggered Apr 04 04:33:48 i assume your patch feed is on? Apr 04 04:33:53 you can try updating feeds first Apr 04 04:34:25 Zsoc: guess I'll do by hand when I have time. Don't know why it doesn't work, data is there in black and white... Apr 04 04:34:40 Zsoc: feed on and updated. Apr 04 04:35:23 Zsoc: a simple loop over the list of installed patches should do the trick (so long as version naming sceme is simple enough). Apr 04 04:36:02 correct Apr 04 04:37:11 Later Apr 04 04:41:03 well...wikipedia reports that the browser in WebOS uses webkit as its engine so chrome might be able to be used. Apr 04 04:42:28 Is there a quick way to tell if dev mode is already on/ Apr 04 04:43:17 And is 2.6 the latest of WOSQI? Apr 04 04:45:20 And WOSQI is asking for the Dr... I'm on German GSM, and that ain't an option... advice? Apr 04 04:50:35 GSM is an option Apr 04 04:50:44 3.02 is the current wosqi Apr 04 04:51:09 ugh, again, this is why I hate using forums for s/w releasing... Apr 04 04:51:29 Thanks Jason Apr 04 05:26:19 I was wondering if someone might be able to help with something. Apr 04 05:26:31 Was making sure my "pre" is in order before 1.4.1 hits Verizon. This will be my first OTA update with patches installed. Ran the emergency file verification and it showed an error. Apr 04 05:27:25 Yet all my installed patches do have AUPT as indicated in .webos-internals.patch.packages file Apr 04 05:27:31 Saved Package List functionality is in Preware git. I'll probably merge it into the Installed Packages scene next. Apr 04 05:27:37 * rwhitby bbl - beach weather Apr 04 05:47:10 * lingfish runs at 600mhz :D :D :D Apr 04 05:50:31 600mhz? nice. i only know the 720/800mhu patch Apr 04 05:50:33 link? Apr 04 05:51:43 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/239378-550-600-mhz-lunasys-mgr-ipk-install.html Apr 04 05:51:59 Seems a bit zippier... but nothing amazing.. Ialso expected this. Apr 04 05:52:00 :) Apr 04 05:52:18 root@palm-webos-device:/var/home/root# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state Apr 04 05:52:22 600000 42020 Apr 04 05:52:24 rock n roll Apr 04 05:53:35 hmm i will try Apr 04 05:55:25 got a weird issue with my preware install Apr 04 05:55:36 it won't let me install apps Apr 04 05:55:40 also only 2 feeds show up Apr 04 05:55:46 so i only see ~70 pkg's Apr 04 05:56:00 is anyone awake haha :/ Apr 04 05:56:42 any errors? Apr 04 05:58:05 not on this install Apr 04 05:58:10 i've been havin probs all night Apr 04 05:58:16 so i used bootstrap Apr 04 05:58:33 so what happens when you try to install an app? Apr 04 05:58:39 i click install Apr 04 05:58:41 it flashes Apr 04 05:58:44 then nothing Apr 04 05:58:47 iPKG log is empty Apr 04 05:59:14 i had to install twice with bootstrap tho Apr 04 05:59:24 first time i chose Y to the alpha ipkg/preware question Apr 04 05:59:31 and i got an update error when i tried running preware Apr 04 05:59:35 so i wiped it Apr 04 05:59:39 and tried again choosing N Apr 04 05:59:46 huh? Apr 04 05:59:51 alpha? Apr 04 05:59:52 lol Apr 04 06:00:05 yeah idk when you do sh preware-bootstrap Apr 04 06:00:13 oh, right... bootstrap Apr 04 06:00:17 never used it Apr 04 06:00:17 it says like "Would you like to install the alpha blah blah blah..." Apr 04 06:00:34 i couldn't get it working with just webOS Apr 04 06:00:45 i kept getting the ipkg error Apr 04 06:01:29 look in the messages log Apr 04 06:01:48 any errors while you using preware? Apr 04 06:02:08 brb Apr 04 06:02:57 which msg log Apr 04 06:04:29 do you have access via console? Apr 04 06:04:43 (i think when you using the bootstrap ;) ) Apr 04 06:05:09 oh right ok 1 sec im not connected Apr 04 06:06:32 nothin Apr 04 06:07:47 hmm Apr 04 06:08:17 i think the preware-service is not running, but not sure Apr 04 06:08:37 wait Apr 04 06:08:47 its hard to decipher Apr 04 06:08:55 but here maybe: Apr 04 06:09:22 CustimizationService upstart: customization launch prereq not me Apr 04 06:09:47 is that the pre-ware service name? Apr 04 06:09:51 sec Apr 04 06:09:55 cause then it kills it Apr 04 06:10:01 "handling stopping event" Apr 04 06:12:48 what says Apr 04 06:12:57 ps aux |grep ipkgservice Apr 04 06:12:58 ? Apr 04 06:13:32 pts/1 grep ipkgservice Apr 04 06:13:42 nothing more? Apr 04 06:13:45 also shows some java shit Apr 04 06:13:49 yeah Apr 04 06:13:50 ok Apr 04 06:13:56 thats the importend part ;) Apr 04 06:14:02 :D Apr 04 06:14:13 so now i wipe just preware Apr 04 06:14:13 hm Apr 04 06:14:18 and not package manager? Apr 04 06:15:20 i'm not a preware-pro but i think so, strange that there is no errors in the messaging log Apr 04 06:15:27 even when you try to install something? Apr 04 06:15:44 i will check Apr 04 06:16:05 more messages Apr 04 06:16:10 oops wrong window :/ Apr 04 06:16:16 :D Apr 04 06:16:30 ah yes ok hmmm Apr 04 06:16:40 first some user.notice for audiod Apr 04 06:16:44 sometimes its "oops, wrong pre" here Apr 04 06:16:53 then lots of warnings for lunasysservice Apr 04 06:17:04 e.g.? Apr 04 06:17:27 bleh Apr 04 06:17:30 can't copy/paste Apr 04 06:17:41 oh ok Apr 04 06:17:43 warning LunaSysSerive getPreferences(): Apr 04 06:17:47 ok Apr 04 06:17:47 lots of those Apr 04 06:17:49 hmmm Apr 04 06:18:06 also same beginning but instead of getpref its SystemRestore Apr 04 06:18:06 mmm, zippier Pre! Apr 04 06:18:27 should i install luna? Apr 04 06:18:32 via webos Apr 04 06:18:36 huh? Apr 04 06:18:41 luna is the gui Apr 04 06:18:46 errrr Apr 04 06:18:49 luna manager Apr 04 06:19:52 sure you can, but it will not help you with your problem i think ;) Apr 04 06:20:07 is there any error when you try to install over WebOSQ? Apr 04 06:20:11 preware Apr 04 06:20:33 webos quick install? Apr 04 06:20:42 yeah Apr 04 06:20:47 i get the Apr 04 06:20:52 ipkg shit undefined blah blah Apr 04 06:20:57 over and over and over :( Apr 04 06:21:03 i re-installed like 10x Apr 04 06:21:11 ipkg also? Apr 04 06:21:42 yeah Apr 04 06:21:56 ipkg first, reboot, install preware, reboot Apr 04 06:22:48 hmkay Apr 04 06:23:03 is there any surefire procedure :/ Apr 04 06:23:52 also i have error when i open tweaks in webOSQI Apr 04 06:24:02 it says like error updating feeds Apr 04 06:24:29 "Error downloading package feed" Apr 04 06:24:39 huh Apr 04 06:25:04 Hrm. Three random reboots since the 600 patch. Dunno if its App store doing it (installing FB beta client) or not... Apr 04 06:25:31 lingfish: no reboots yet Apr 04 06:25:49 weird... got a second and wanna try installing the FB beta? Apr 04 06:25:59 It seems to hang at "downloading" and then eventually reboot Apr 04 06:26:23 bleh i re-installed pkg manager with no luck Apr 04 06:26:47 hOoLiGaN`: there are people here who can help you, but sleeping or at the beach ;) Apr 04 06:26:56 ok thx i will idle Apr 04 06:27:02 :) np Apr 04 06:27:02 i should sleep soon as well hehe Apr 04 06:27:07 :D Apr 04 06:27:12 no preware sucks Apr 04 06:28:40 hucksy: got time for it? Apr 04 06:28:49 sure Apr 04 06:28:54 do i want the latest update? Apr 04 06:28:58 1.4.1.1 Apr 04 06:29:04 hucksy: ta Apr 04 06:29:40 hOoLiGaN`: i think so, many bugfixes Apr 04 06:30:32 ok ty Apr 04 06:30:35 lingfish: sec Apr 04 06:30:36 zZzz for me Apr 04 06:30:48 nn Apr 04 06:33:50 so, lingfish i already installed the fb beta before the patch, any other app which ends in a reboot? Apr 04 06:34:15 hucksy: nah, haven't tried any others Apr 04 06:34:38 FB beta was acting weird (I didn't get any prefs in that window, and it kept sending me notif's, very annoying) Apr 04 06:35:06 yeah thats "normal" ;) the beta is far from usable Apr 04 06:35:26 hrm. so anyway, removed it, tried to readd and was getting that. Apr 04 06:35:39 Will go for a few hours now of normal use and see if the reboots persist Apr 04 06:37:27 then you have more experience with the patch then me ;) i just installed it when you post the link. Tried the 750 patch yesterday without problems Apr 04 06:37:39 k Apr 04 06:37:58 Perhaps I'll try another app from the store Apr 04 06:38:18 yeah, beta is always bad for testing other testing mods ;) Apr 04 06:38:31 I dunno, it just installed fine prior. Apr 04 06:38:33 Trying now Apr 04 06:39:04 Good start, it downloaded at least Apr 04 06:39:06 installing... Apr 04 06:39:11 done Apr 04 06:39:16 Right, must just be that feed. Apr 04 06:39:35 I wish you could just get the beta "channel" within the app store app... annoying that you have to find URLs and go from there Apr 04 06:40:22 hahaha I just installed Party Sign... gold Apr 04 06:40:39 whats that? Apr 04 06:41:14 It just does scrolling banners Apr 04 06:41:22 supposedly for when you're in a noisy place etc Apr 04 06:41:38 I will find it quite useful in meetings and generally at work, heh. Apr 04 06:42:37 hehe Apr 04 06:43:53 hrm, wonder if Preware can tap into a beta feed. Apr 04 06:44:30 you can use the beta feeds in preware, yes Apr 04 06:44:31 Fucken awesome.... it can :D Apr 04 06:44:36 I'll try that way Apr 04 06:45:17 you cant install it directly but it opens the right app catalog scene for you Apr 04 06:45:42 yeah knew that... hoping it goes to the right one, or something.. perhaps the link I was using (google search) was stuffed... Apr 04 06:46:14 nup, same dl hang... will prolly luna restart shortly. Apr 04 06:46:39 many strange problems today ;) Apr 04 06:46:57 Could be the main matrix decoupler subsystem. Apr 04 06:47:13 damn matrix Apr 04 06:47:15 and its 8:46 in the morning here Apr 04 06:47:17 yeah Apr 04 06:47:19 screwing with my reality Apr 04 06:47:23 :D Apr 04 06:47:44 heh Apr 04 06:48:53 cmon, hurry up and reboot already. Apr 04 06:50:02 heh, won't do it now.. just hangs at Downloading Apr 04 06:50:27 but, this time I'm keeping the screen awake.. other times it had gone to sleep, and rebooted when awoken Apr 04 06:52:24 Won't do it at all now. Apr 04 06:52:26 anyhoo. Apr 04 06:52:34 hucksy: are you getting repeating notif's from the latest beta? Apr 04 06:52:57 nope Apr 04 06:53:12 odd. Apr 04 06:53:20 Maybe my Pre has caught rabies. Apr 04 06:53:21 the notifications is the only thing which works for me at the moment :) Apr 04 06:53:38 cant tap on any menue Apr 04 06:53:48 lol Apr 04 06:54:31 so its installed so i get the notifies, but using the stable app ;) Apr 04 06:54:51 hahahaha, awesome idea Apr 04 06:57:59 yeah i think its because my pre is non-en Apr 04 06:58:05 the menue looks weird Apr 04 07:05:07 tmzt_: yeah it's based on the old Xsdl, patched it up and whatnot. git is on webosinternals :) Apr 04 07:05:43 does it work with luna and what kind of switching between it an luna is there? Apr 04 07:05:45 hucksy: see http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:X for keybindings, etc Apr 04 07:05:48 is there a working cardview? Apr 04 07:06:00 fwiw phil_bw I found abiword a bit more usable Apr 04 07:06:07 dtzWill: thanks! Apr 04 07:06:16 abiword is awesome and could really be optimized for arm Apr 04 07:06:19 and gtk fixes Apr 04 07:07:35 tmzt_: it display within a card. Apr 04 07:07:44 tmzt_: so the root window+etc are all in a single card Apr 04 07:07:53 yeah, it's not rootless Apr 04 07:07:55 being sdl Apr 04 07:08:02 but does it minimize to a card Apr 04 07:08:21 tmzt_: yeah looking at integrating via rootless would be excellent Apr 04 07:09:09 what about removing the sdl abstraction? Apr 04 07:09:15 is it just because of the pdk? Apr 04 07:09:58 I think X is gaining some interesting features, including dynamic numScreens and ability to allocate shadow framebuffers or whatever at runtime Apr 04 07:10:42 one of the reasons for this is to allow vnc and other exporting methods for existing screens Apr 04 07:10:47 dmx, etc. Apr 04 07:10:48 tmzt_: nothing to do with the pdk--it just was easiest way to get a)input to the x-server and b)render. it's actually using sdl-gles since that's faster. kdrive+existing yet broken xsdl codebase made this the easiest way, etc Apr 04 07:10:58 tmzt_: oh interesting Apr 04 07:11:04 it's using gles but from Xsdl? Apr 04 07:11:18 is X getting the context or are you just blitting to it? Apr 04 07:11:23 tmzt_: just to blit--no GLX or anything like that. Apr 04 07:12:56 tmzt_: i'm not sure how we could better integrate into luna other than via sdl-gles, since we don't have luna source. Apr 04 07:13:24 of course we could much better integrate gles into the server i'd imagine Apr 04 07:13:29 use the same rpc method as sdl? Apr 04 07:16:57 tmzt_: i'm not sure what you mean, sorry. Apr 04 07:17:13 the method the sdl implementation uses to talk with luna Apr 04 07:18:20 tmzt_: ah, in that case yes it does. i hadn't poked at that too much Apr 04 07:19:09 right but you could possibly eliminate the sdl dependency in that case Apr 04 07:19:12 and use Xorg Apr 04 07:22:59 tmzt_: i'm very interested in your idea, but not sure i fully understand the technologies involved to follow. cutting out sdl would be great--you're thinking we could use the same hooks sdl uses to talk to luna and tie those into the Xorg structure? Apr 04 07:23:49 it's not clear to me how that would be better to be honest--i'm not sure what how sdl/luna play together and what aabout that would be better. (i'm not saying it wouldn't work, or even be great, i just don't know) Apr 04 07:24:13 although i'm still rather fond of looking at how we can get rootless X working, card-per top level window, etc Apr 04 07:25:18 yeah Apr 04 07:25:29 the real reason is rootless and maybe GLX Apr 04 07:25:42 multiscreen and dynamicly allocated Apr 04 07:25:45 which is coming to X Apr 04 07:26:07 my preferred way, a canvas extension that gives a handle to the GL context Apr 04 07:26:16 but that requires new stuff in luna Apr 04 07:26:25 so unless they want to support it it's not going to happen Apr 04 07:26:38 also, a scriptable way of creating cards with whatever in them Apr 04 07:26:44 not always stages Apr 04 07:26:57 or a luna plugin, which people seem to believe is impossible Apr 04 07:32:16 is there a way to start an terminal/xterm app with an argument (command)? Apr 04 07:32:24 like a service Apr 04 07:33:12 hucksy: depending on how techincal you solution is--i mean it's fairly trivial to make an app of type:game that just runs a script.. and that script acn do whatever you want Apr 04 07:33:22 hucksy: including running the xterm binary with whatever flags you want Apr 04 07:33:41 hmm Apr 04 07:34:25 thanks, sounds good... never used type:game Apr 04 07:34:44 hucksy: there shuold be documentation on the wiki--and actually the xerm launcher itself is just a script Apr 04 07:35:50 tmzt_: interesting stuff for sure. i think with sdl we can create multiple windows, i believe someone was working on it. Apr 04 07:36:06 heh eventually we could connect the desktop notifications with webos notifications for apps :) Apr 04 07:36:09 :P Apr 04 07:36:23 sweet, will try... i just need a function which opens the xterm app and runs a command Apr 04 07:42:59 so that would be multiple independant X servers, one per app Apr 04 07:43:01 like the xterm Apr 04 07:44:03 tmzt_: well that's the short-term solution :/ Apr 04 07:44:47 tmzt_: but if i (or someone else :D) has time doing this right would definitely involve much better luna integration Apr 04 07:45:08 and if done right that could especially take off--app per card, etc Apr 04 11:49:39 jettero: ping Apr 04 11:53:33 pong! Apr 04 11:53:50 I prefer the AYT/ACK paradigm Apr 04 11:54:01 jettero: are you ready to alpha test the latest Preware Alpha and Save/Restore ? Apr 04 11:57:22 Is there an os update coming? Apr 04 11:57:28 I don't plan on doctoring again soon if I can help it. ;) Apr 04 11:57:57 I have 0 time until this class is over. If it were may, I'd probably be willingto spend some time doctoring on the weekend Apr 04 11:58:13 you don't need to doctor to test it Apr 04 11:58:15 okie Apr 04 11:58:18 then sure Apr 04 12:00:56 just install preware alpha and save/restore, then install some extra homebrew apps, then save the package list in Preware Alpha , then save the preware application data in Save/Restore, then remove the extra apps, then save the package list in Preware Alpha (so that it no longer includes those apps), then restore the Preware application data with Save/Restore, then go back into the Saved Package List and hit Install All and it should re Apr 04 12:00:59 install the apps you removed. Apr 04 12:01:31 sya is preware alpha listed in preware or do I need a url? Apr 04 12:01:47 its in the testing feed Apr 04 12:01:55 I've heard of that. :) Apr 04 12:02:02 ~testing-feed Apr 04 12:02:03 [testing-feed] a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Apr 04 12:02:58 ok, now I need to implement swipe to delete from the Saved Package List so you can omit things from the restore ... Apr 04 12:03:38 my preware has been getting stuck on palm-catalog last night and this morning Apr 04 12:03:42 what accounts for that? Apr 04 12:10:28 oh nice Apr 04 12:10:36 save/restore with apps Apr 04 12:11:45 http://tinypic.zapto.org/2kn4m8.png?t=1270382633 do my breasts look to big? Apr 04 12:27:50 you will be permanently banned if you click that link and cause IRC an IRC spambot to be triggered Apr 04 12:28:13 jettero: update to Preware 0.9.33 or later Apr 04 12:31:26 I totally clicked that link, but I sincerely doubt it could affect my irc connection Apr 04 12:31:36 I was like breasts? I gotta see that Apr 04 12:32:12 rwhitby: updating to preware without preware is poopy. gotta focus on my homework, but I will get to that at some point Apr 04 12:33:11 jettero: the reason why #webos is still registered-only is because of IRC spam links that caused IRC bots Apr 04 12:33:46 jettero: use the bootstrap script to install Preware, then add the testing feed using Terminal, then install Preware Alpha Apr 04 12:33:56 you never need a desktop. Apr 04 12:33:56 does terminal work again? Apr 04 12:34:00 yep Apr 04 12:34:09 (well, except for the menus) Apr 04 12:34:23 I meant to help test that and fire up gdb to help find the problem(s) but ... work+kids+wife+school is too much Apr 04 12:34:29 adding hobby usually doesn't work Apr 04 12:36:19 yeah I can ssh in... I only need the PC if I screw up Apr 04 12:55:32 * mjkjr is getting ready to do some testing, very happy reading about Preware Alpha and Save/Restore working together. Apr 04 12:57:12 yeah looks great Apr 04 13:07:13 * cal__ frowns at 'unreversed patch detected' after updating to 1.4.1.1 Apr 04 13:25:01 mjkjr: let me know how the testing goes Apr 04 13:26:49 rwhitby, of course. i'm pretty excited about this update =) Apr 04 13:28:16 mjkjr: yeah, I'm pretty pleased with how it fits together Apr 04 13:28:34 how do i fix the patches that give 'unreversed patch detected' after upgrading to 1.4.1.1? Apr 04 13:28:58 mjkjr: I'm dubbing it "The Holy Grail of Homebrew" Apr 04 13:29:52 =) just opened up Save/Restore, I see Preware and Preware Alpha in there? Apr 04 13:31:09 mjkjr: http://forums.precentral.net/2357726-post1.html Apr 04 13:31:47 rwhitby: thank you Apr 04 13:33:52 * mjkjr was too dumb to scroll down and find the "Saved Package List" in Alpha Apr 04 13:41:01 mjkjr: I'm considering whether it can be made part of the Installed packages screen Apr 04 13:44:06 rwhitby, lol because that's where i was looking. it's still early for me. Apr 04 13:46:03 what's the process for getting a jaycanuck patch into a preware feed these days? Apr 04 13:46:29 i've been checking to see if the temp in device menu patch has shown up but have not seen it. Apr 04 13:47:04 jhojho: first step is to find dBsooner - he's MIA Apr 04 13:47:26 if that fails for too long, we move to plan B and do it manually. Apr 04 13:47:27 egaudet seems to be kind of MIA as well ? Apr 04 13:47:45 mjkjr: egaudet did a virtual keyboard update the other day Apr 04 13:47:48 rwhitby: havent been able to find dbsooner which is why I am asking Apr 04 13:47:59 the email I have for him bounced Apr 04 13:48:03 for webos-patches Apr 04 13:48:35 rwhitby, yeah i talked to him that day and tested vkb but i mean besides that haven't seen him around Apr 04 13:48:37 Hmm - looks like I'll need to learn how to drive the admin part of the webos-patches portal then Apr 04 13:48:48 save/restore is AMAZING Apr 04 13:49:07 worked very well rwhitby, give yourself a pat on the back =) Apr 04 13:49:45 mjkjr: it's a nice general architecture too - there will be lots of neat things that we will be able to dream up in the future for it to do Apr 04 13:50:45 uploadfunction! Apr 04 13:51:18 hucksy: there's a sketch of a concept in place for emailing savesets Apr 04 13:51:36 * hucksy smiles Apr 04 13:51:55 mjkjr: e.g. I'm sure people will start using Save/Restore to swap savegames for the 3D games Apr 04 13:55:46 rwhitby: that's like a little bonus feature. I'm just happy to see it working with homebrew, to me the worst part of doctoring was finding and installing all of my homebrew again. Apr 04 13:57:49 the only way to write as service which is able to send notifications to luna is a java service and c#/c++, right? Apr 04 13:58:22 i need a script/service which checks dns Apr 04 13:59:51 hucksy: save/restore uses a service written in C Apr 04 14:00:04 java services are deprecated Apr 04 14:01:03 mhh k Apr 04 14:01:17 * rwhitby grabs http://bit.ly/holy-grail-of-homebrew Apr 04 14:10:50 * rwhitby bbt - night al Apr 04 14:10:52 l Apr 04 14:23:27 every piece of electronics in my house crashed between when i went to sleep and when i woke up Apr 04 14:26:04 zsoc, did your power go out? Apr 04 14:26:33 no, actually Apr 04 14:27:55 sounds kinds of weird Apr 04 14:30:10 brownout Apr 04 14:31:09 maybe. Apr 04 14:31:26 AnOutsider: You!! Apr 04 14:32:32 Me. Apr 04 14:32:54 shall I start speaking in japanese and gesture angrily while subtitles display below? Apr 04 14:33:01 next time Apr 04 14:33:06 AnOutsider: want to work on some graphics for me? Apr 04 14:33:08 you can say no Apr 04 14:33:26 well I'm sitting in misery waiting for easter sunday food... so whatcha got Apr 04 14:33:40 *still reserving right to say no:)* Apr 04 14:33:43 hehe Apr 04 14:33:57 Er, well how much artistic license would you like? Apr 04 14:34:05 Because honestly I only came up with 1 idea and it's only "sort of ok" Apr 04 14:34:06 haha Apr 04 14:34:14 prolly best to tell me what it is first, then I can go from there Apr 04 14:34:15 and you'd have a while... i'm just getting the framework together now Apr 04 14:34:22 AnOutsider: precorder Apr 04 14:35:21 AnOutsider: http://www.photoshopcafe.com/tutorials/interface/interface3.htm <-- i was thinking something like that Apr 04 14:35:25 LCD looking display Apr 04 14:35:42 and then I just need record/stop buttons, and back,play,forward buttons Apr 04 14:35:55 i was looking at olympus handheld recorders for reference Apr 04 14:36:22 I mean ultimately I'm just going to have some buttons for release... I wouldn't expect a real interface till v.10 Apr 04 14:36:24 er, 1.0 Apr 04 14:36:27 you can still say no lol Apr 04 14:36:41 It's just.. that button you made for me that time was so sexy Apr 04 14:37:56 haah Apr 04 14:37:58 yeah I can do it Apr 04 14:38:13 what's going to be the feature-set of new precoder? Apr 04 14:38:16 awesome :) Apr 04 14:38:19 I'll write up a spec Apr 04 14:38:41 AnOutsider: biggest things to start with is voice recording (from input), and stream recording (from output, ie, what other apps are playing) Apr 04 14:39:09 you'll have a record and stop, obviously. to begin it'll just be a 'play last', but eventually you'll be able to change the name of file and flip through them Apr 04 14:39:28 also, voice recorder will have a 'voice activation' feature (and i suppose a sensitivity adjuster) Apr 04 14:39:36 ie, leave your phone in a room and only record when it picks up noise Apr 04 14:40:00 But, as far as future features go, it's a true C gstreamer application, so basically anything is possible Apr 04 14:40:29 much better feedback too once i get the bus messages sorted out.. should have threaded/subscribed/realtime info about what's happening in the pipeline Apr 04 14:41:39 hey can someone tell me what exactly "reset network settings" does? Apr 04 14:42:49 voice recording? I thought there was no mic API and that's why apps like shazaam hadn't appeared? Apr 04 14:43:16 AnOutsider: there isn't. I'm a webos internals developer? There's no _official_ mic api. If there was no way to access the mic tho, your phone wouldn't work ;) Apr 04 14:43:37 touche :) Apr 04 14:43:37 nfoxTc: it's reprovisions your data (ie: update's your profile) Apr 04 14:44:01 zsoc: well why would I have to keep using it to get a data connection again after I shut off my tether? Apr 04 14:44:25 it seems to be random...sometimes it works without a problem other times I have to reset network settings Apr 04 14:44:30 AnOutsider: i prefer xcf files, assuming you use gimp. otherwise uh.. i guess it's ok :) Apr 04 14:44:37 nfoxTc: what method are you tethering with? Apr 04 14:44:47 oh, mytether Apr 04 14:44:55 uh, ask on their support forum? ;) Apr 04 14:45:16 when I tether with freetether, I maintain a data connection on my device as well Apr 04 14:45:29 freetether? Apr 04 14:45:42 never heard of it maybe I should give it a shot...got a link? Apr 04 14:45:43 yeah, I use photoshop haha. no xcf fils here sir Apr 04 14:45:55 Personally, I only care about the mic api issue so that someone will be able to write an audio tuner app. Apr 04 14:46:01 AnOutsider: ok.. well i'd appreciate the psd's if you wouldn't mind, in case i had to play with something and you weren't around Apr 04 14:46:16 idontwan2know: audio tuner? autotuner you mean Apr 04 14:46:16 had voice commands on many many phones and never found it useful Apr 04 14:46:26 nfoxTc: er... it's in the testing feeds Apr 04 14:46:28 ~testingfeed Apr 04 14:46:35 ~testingfeeds Apr 04 14:46:39 * zsoc sighs Apr 04 14:46:44 yeah i can never get that to work haha Apr 04 14:46:48 and yeah PSDs are cool Apr 04 14:46:51 No, as in an app you can use to tune real musical instruments, not a TPain app. Apr 04 14:46:53 can I ask a favor from thee in return? Apr 04 14:46:54 lol Apr 04 14:47:01 AnOutsider: sure bro Apr 04 14:47:09 nt4cats: yoooooooooo Apr 04 14:47:10 \newsroom saverestore script :) Apr 04 14:47:22 haven't gotten around to getting winscp hooked up to grab shit from my phone Apr 04 14:47:26 testing feeds of preware? Apr 04 14:47:39 nfoxTc: right Apr 04 14:47:42 'lo zsoc Apr 04 14:47:46 nfoxTc: it's usb only tho... so no wifi Apr 04 14:47:53 AnOutsider: yeah that's no problem Apr 04 14:48:04 i have to download news room tho lol Apr 04 14:48:15 yeah usb only is fine Apr 04 14:48:18 ill check it out Apr 04 14:49:55 looking at the scripts, it looks like you'd only need to specify the dbs to save? Apr 04 14:50:11 or cookies? I guess you'd have to poke around the code to know exactly where that is though Apr 04 14:50:25 AnOutsider: yeah, save/restore 'scripts' were made in such a way that they are like templates, so anyone can make them Apr 04 14:50:25 Since we're discussing tethering issues...is there a way to prevent your computer from detecting the Pre as a LAN Connection when you plug in the USB cable and don't have tethering on. Apr 04 14:50:40 idontwan2know: use linux and disable the usb0 interface? Apr 04 14:51:11 you may not have 'tethering' on, but you have usbnet on Apr 04 14:51:56 zsoc: yes, that would work, but that's a significantly more radical fix than I was hoping for. Especially since it's not really a problem...just a minor annoyance. Apr 04 14:52:18 like i said, your usbnet is always on.. you'd have to disable it on your phone Apr 04 14:52:46 And then enable it each time I wanted to tether via USB? Apr 04 14:52:53 I may do that. Apr 04 14:53:01 it generally involves restarting your device Apr 04 14:53:24 Or I may just live with it. Apr 04 14:53:26 is there a problem with leaving usbnet on? Apr 04 14:54:22 nfoxTc: Not that I'm aware of...I just find it annoying. Apr 04 14:54:33 oh ok Apr 04 14:54:53 anyone have a link to webos dr imgs...need the newest one for webos quick install Apr 04 14:55:06 there might be a way to fool windows by manipulating nat Apr 04 14:56:09 Yeah, that's more along the lines of what I was thinking. Apr 04 14:56:23 try the 'on/off' nat setting in freetether Apr 04 14:56:31 it's probably more complicated than that, but it's worth a shot Apr 04 14:56:42 you could make an iptables setting, and patch it into the freetether interface Apr 04 14:57:27 nfoxTc: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Apr 04 14:57:28 zsoc do you feel that freetether is better then mytether? Apr 04 14:57:33 thanks mjkjr Apr 04 14:58:10 nfoxTc: better is a funny word. i suppose yes? it just sets some iptables things and lets you switch on/off ipforwarding Apr 04 14:58:14 you don't even need it open to tether Apr 04 14:58:30 lol Apr 04 14:59:04 well im a linux newb lol Apr 04 14:59:20 most of us are Apr 04 14:59:24 only started using ubuntu less then a year ago when I got my pre Apr 04 14:59:28 * zsoc looks around for alan cox Apr 04 14:59:29 * nt4cats needs to toggle airplane mode now, church starts in 15 minutes. BBL Apr 04 14:59:38 nt4cats: later Apr 04 14:59:40 mytether is definitely a more fully fleshed out app, with more features and wifi and bluetooth tethering Apr 04 14:59:56 yeah but thats the paid version Apr 04 15:00:13 * mjkjr wonders why nt4cats just doesn't put his phone on silent Apr 04 15:00:15 crazy the one app I can't find on tpb is mytether Apr 04 15:00:19 So it's a question of how you feel about the "donation" and Aonic's attitude towards the HomeBrew ecosystem. Apr 04 15:00:26 because silent still vibrates Apr 04 15:00:40 doesn't have to Apr 04 15:00:42 what's his attitude? Apr 04 15:00:45 =) Apr 04 15:00:53 yeah i saw that patch Apr 04 15:01:01 trust me, i thought long and hard, and am still considering it Apr 04 15:01:02 I always thought he had no prob with homebrew, but just wanted to charge for his app... in which case, I see nothing wrong there Apr 04 15:01:28 There isn't anything wrong with charging for an app. Apr 04 15:01:31 then it should be called a paid app, but that's a discussion for somewhere esle, lol Apr 04 15:01:35 idontwan2know, agreed Apr 04 15:01:43 It's calling it a "donation" that gets him in hot water with open source people. Apr 04 15:02:11 wonder how much he made Apr 04 15:02:19 prolly close to 15k Apr 04 15:02:28 I don't care about the money. I was bothered by his early programming ethics Apr 04 15:02:32 it's better now Apr 04 15:02:39 that, too Apr 04 15:03:08 I don't know all the details, but my understanding is that he borrowed freely from open source code, then sold it. Apr 04 15:03:16 damn Apr 04 15:03:21 thats wrong Apr 04 15:03:45 tethering is great once i use up my 5g limit on my overdrive Apr 04 15:03:51 but once 4g comes over here ill never use it Apr 04 15:04:01 overdrive 4g = win Apr 04 15:04:17 getting kicked off the internet everytime someone calls me reminds me of the 90's too much Apr 04 15:04:28 haha Apr 04 15:04:33 lol Apr 04 15:04:49 Didn't have call waiting? Apr 04 15:05:26 back in AOL days? Apr 04 15:05:28 nah lol Apr 04 15:05:45 i wish there was a way to turn the phone radio off and leave the 3g one on Apr 04 15:06:08 ah, he's using "donation" to get around using open source? Apr 04 15:06:13 zsoc you live in 4g coverage? Apr 04 15:06:16 Those were the days...boot up the Pentium 90 and start attempting to sign on to AOL a good hour or two before you actually wanted to use it. Apr 04 15:06:17 nfoxTc: nah Apr 04 15:06:18 I remember it was a "forced" donation too Apr 04 15:06:39 lol yep it took hrs to connect Apr 04 15:07:17 Damn I wanted to see if the speeds were true...ive heard of people getting over 1mb down Apr 04 15:10:03 nfoxTc: oh, yeah i've seen it Apr 04 15:10:07 1mb is about right Apr 04 15:10:11 er MB Apr 04 15:10:20 1000kb? Apr 04 15:10:36 like a 60mb file takes 60 sec Apr 04 15:10:42 right Apr 04 15:10:49 thats incredible Apr 04 15:10:56 not really, it's wifi Apr 04 15:11:00 heh Apr 04 15:11:06 yeah but still Apr 04 15:11:16 the new htc evo is going to be 4g Apr 04 15:11:20 i guess :) it'll be nice when it's everywhere ;) Apr 04 15:11:36 1ghz processor and 1mb down on a cell phone!?!? Apr 04 15:11:36 yeah, but in general the 4g converage is never going to be as good as 3g, it's just different technology Apr 04 15:11:48 Yeah, but it's Android. Apr 04 15:11:55 yeah thats the only bad part Apr 04 15:11:57 I like webos Apr 04 15:11:58 it's also _huge_ Apr 04 15:12:03 you ever try using one of those phone? Apr 04 15:12:04 s Apr 04 15:12:07 nope Apr 04 15:12:14 but it also has hdmi output Apr 04 15:12:21 pretty impressive for a phone I think Apr 04 15:12:49 * zsoc shrugs Apr 04 15:12:50 it's a MID lol Apr 04 15:12:58 HTC builds a good handset Apr 04 15:13:16 But it's all about the OS for me, as long as the hardware isn't horribly buggy Apr 04 15:13:33 MID? Apr 04 15:13:40 mobile internet device Apr 04 15:13:40 After WebOS, Android feels like Windows 3.11 Apr 04 15:14:04 haha Apr 04 15:14:13 windows 3.1... Apr 04 15:14:27 I mean, sure it can do the same stuff...but using it is just not a fun experience. Apr 04 15:14:42 my first pc ever was a 286 I miss that thing sometime Apr 04 15:15:10 6yrs old trying to use a dos prompt Apr 04 15:15:50 dos was the shit Apr 04 15:15:57 I agree Apr 04 15:16:10 im scared of a cli now Apr 04 15:16:16 specially on linux.. Apr 04 15:16:16 You learned like five commands and you could do ANYTHING. Apr 04 15:16:48 I liked Unix better, lots of commands and flags to learn and pipe together. ;-) Apr 04 15:17:21 DOS wasn't an OS, it was an object loader. ;-) Apr 04 15:17:31 True. Apr 04 15:18:04 you lost me... Apr 04 15:18:09 I've got to go shopping for food else I'll starve. See ya. Apr 04 15:18:14 Disk Operating System? Apr 04 15:18:21 MS-DOS I mean Apr 04 15:18:39 there of course were other DOSs, like Apple's, or IBM's mainframe DOS. Apr 04 15:18:39 lol Apr 04 15:18:56 (my first OS was AppleDOS 3.2.1) Apr 04 15:19:10 PC DOS, Q-DOS, etc. Apr 04 15:19:12 oh hmm I always thought ms-dos was an OS Apr 04 15:19:31 nfoxTc: it is, but it's not much of one, it basically loads a program into memory and that's it. Apr 04 15:19:38 I see Apr 04 15:20:16 oh, they added directories and stuff, but that was just so you could have somewhere to put what it loaded into memory and let take control of the machine. Apr 04 15:20:54 webOS is a zillion times more sophisticated than MS-DOS. Apr 04 15:20:59 oh ofcourse Apr 04 15:21:07 dos didn't have multitasking :p Apr 04 15:21:16 or Linux under the hood. :) Apr 04 15:22:55 lol Apr 04 15:23:43 I wonder what an Android kernel with Luna on top of it would be like? Apr 04 15:27:16 so whats the verdict you guys....you think sprint really cares about tethering Apr 04 15:27:31 I burnt up 10+ gigs on month and nothing ever happeneed Apr 04 15:27:35 No Apr 04 15:27:37 one* Apr 04 15:28:31 I don't think so either Apr 04 15:28:43 They have plenty of network capacity, due to the fact that they're losing customers by the thousands. Apr 04 15:28:49 yep Apr 04 15:28:59 I wonder why they're doing so bad Apr 04 15:29:17 stupid iphone crazy probably has something to do with it Apr 04 15:29:38 to some degree Apr 04 15:29:58 Until about a year ago Sprint's phone lineup was *terrible* Apr 04 15:30:26 yeah...the instinct Apr 04 15:30:28 All those god awful Samsung iPhone clones Apr 04 15:30:32 exactly Apr 04 15:30:32 man was that a TERRIBLE phone Apr 04 15:30:46 I was so disapointed Apr 04 15:32:03 They just don't really have anything to hang their hat on, really. Apr 04 15:32:27 true Apr 04 15:32:30 AT&T has the iPhone. Verizon has their network, and now the Droid. Apr 04 15:32:51 the pre is a better phone then the iPhone but the average person doesn't care about techie stuff Apr 04 15:33:04 thats why stuff like the ipad sells Apr 04 15:33:29 bleh...don't even get me started on the ipad Apr 04 15:33:43 I see one in person for the first time yesterday.... Apr 04 15:33:46 so pointless Apr 04 15:34:06 its like if you split a netbook in half and just took the monitor Apr 04 15:34:12 If you're going to carry around a device that big, you might as well have a notebook. Apr 04 15:34:25 wtf are you going to do with that? you can't even close it and put it in a backpack or something Apr 04 15:34:28 And get five times the functionality Apr 04 15:34:34 exactly Apr 04 15:34:48 people confuse software with magic though Apr 04 15:34:55 But, it's shiny and it's made by Apple, so people will buy it. Apr 04 15:34:59 yup Apr 04 15:35:32 I could not agree more Apr 04 15:35:42 It's the MacBook Wheel come to life. Apr 04 15:35:52 member the macbook air? Apr 04 15:35:57 My news feeds have been clogged with shit Apr 04 15:36:06 "omgggggg it fits in a envelope" Apr 04 15:36:35 I asked the people at the apple store one day why their hardware was so expensive compared to another machine Apr 04 15:36:54 and they kept telling me about all the software that comes bundled Apr 04 15:37:05 silly huh Apr 04 15:37:29 Cause Apple is running a secret biotech lab trying to clone Steve Jobs liver. Apr 04 15:37:36 Wait, too soon? Apr 04 15:37:41 and ofcourse..."macs dont get viruses" Apr 04 15:37:43 bazinga Apr 04 15:40:05 http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/ Apr 04 15:44:10 hahaha Apr 04 15:44:21 hahah Apr 04 15:44:26 i gotta send this to my brother Apr 04 15:44:55 the sodoku killer Apr 04 15:45:43 the sad part is...I wasnt sure if the video was real or not till midway through Apr 04 15:45:48 sad on apples part Apr 04 15:46:17 hahah i know right Apr 04 15:56:08 I forgot how well made that was Apr 04 15:56:09 oh wow, wasnt paying attention and I almost ran webos dr instead of webos quick install Apr 04 15:56:12 the video Apr 04 15:57:08 Should I assume the omap34 is a little endian processor? Apr 04 16:05:33 can you see this? Apr 04 16:05:34 wikipedia says the ARM architecture is Bi-Endian Apr 04 16:06:01 mjkjr: yes Apr 04 16:11:57 idontwan2know: ty Apr 04 16:12:40 hey zsoc is there a wget for freetether? Apr 04 16:12:57 probably? no idea Apr 04 16:15:53 Woo, GAB. Apr 04 16:16:29 so when do you think palm will come out with a pre2 Apr 04 16:16:35 or their next webos phone Apr 04 16:16:53 * mjkjr thought something was blocking irc Apr 04 16:18:57 Signs seem to point to July. Apr 04 16:19:48 hopefully its with sprint Apr 04 16:20:08 I would rather they let it slip to Q4 and include the dual core processor that will be ready then...but Palm's financial situation will likely have as much to do with it as technical considerations, unfortunately. Apr 04 16:21:43 a dual core processor in a phone? Apr 04 16:21:52 imagine how big the battery would be Apr 04 16:22:22 nfoxTc: ... uh Apr 04 16:22:33 I imagine if anything we'll see 32gb versions of current hardware. Apr 04 16:22:33 nfoxTc: dual core is _more_ efficient than these 1ghz suckers they have now Apr 04 16:22:49 Unless the phones take off considerably with AT&T and other launches. Apr 04 16:23:02 Yes...a dual core proc can scale MUCH more effectively than a single core proc. Apr 04 16:24:21 ah ok Apr 04 16:25:03 id just like to see 4g and hdmi outpu Apr 04 16:25:06 output* Apr 04 16:25:12 There are pretty consistent rumors of a 4G Palm phone coming to Sprint this summer. I don't think it has anything to do with sales on AT&T. Apr 04 16:25:41 i think sprint is going with this new htc evo as their flagship for this year though Apr 04 16:26:04 And the infamous "C40" that keeps popping up in inventory screens. Apr 04 16:27:34 The dual core arm chips are more suited for netbooks Apr 04 16:27:39 They raise power consumption too much Apr 04 16:28:08 c40? Apr 04 16:28:46 chrisa: Yes, the existing ones...but a new one aimed at phone use is scheduled to be ready in the fall of this year Apr 04 16:28:47 a 1GHz chip with reduced power usage compared to current 1GHz parts should be enough Apr 04 16:29:11 The one I'm thinking of is a dual core scorpion that isn't out yet iirc Apr 04 16:29:43 It's not a big deal to me, but the phone nuts geek out over stuff like that. Apr 04 16:30:38 Given how well WebOS performs with the current proc at 800MHz, I think 1GHz will be more than sufficient for the next device. Apr 04 16:33:07 the proc is at 500 I think Apr 04 16:33:35 Stock, yes Apr 04 16:34:15 there are patches that take it to 600, and modified kernels that go to 720 and 800 Apr 04 16:34:48 The performance difference is remarkable. Apr 04 16:35:14 idontwan2know: I haven't tried it myself, but I'd bet you get about a 20% increase in performance going from 500 to 600 Apr 04 16:35:34 haha Apr 04 16:35:44 (just like 40% of all sick days happen on Mondays and Fridays) Apr 04 16:35:44 If only it worked that way. Apr 04 16:36:05 idontwan2know: for cpu-intensive tasks it works exactly that way ;) Apr 04 16:36:46 idontwan2know: ... but I'd figure that Luna is more often memory-bound than it is CPU-bound Apr 04 16:36:50 only to the point that software and other hardware issues become bottlenecks Apr 04 16:36:55 exactly Apr 04 16:38:00 As it stands, with a software renderer it is both Apr 04 16:38:30 luna itself allocates most of the memory it needs at start if I recall, everything beyond that is scaling up for apps (and memory greedy webpages) Apr 04 16:38:32 I'm going to risk being called excessively silly here ... but my Pre seems more stable (e.g. not crashing Luna on wake-up) since I upgraded to the newer Facebook beta. Apr 04 16:38:33 I think id be scared to overclock my proc to 800mhz Apr 04 16:40:16 nfoxTc: Understandable...I definitely wouldn't do it if I didn't have TEP. Apr 04 16:40:39 I'm worried about reducing the life of the hardware, am staying at stock speeds Apr 04 16:40:51 TEP? Totally Electric Pre? Apr 04 16:41:01 Teriffic Exciting Parents? Apr 04 16:41:02 Total Equipment Protection Apr 04 16:42:06 idontwan2know: so you're saying your parents aren't terrific Apr 04 16:42:16 lol Apr 04 16:43:14 Anyway...there are applications that monitor for excessive heat, which is the primary cause of overclocking induced hardware failures Apr 04 16:43:59 idontwan2know: it'd be nice if the overclocking app(s) could tie in to the heat monitor and dial the Hz back if it gets too hot Apr 04 16:44:12 The only time my Pre at 800 set off an alarm was when I wasn't paying attention and left it right under the hottest part of my laptop while watching a movie Apr 04 16:45:25 is it really that much faster? Apr 04 16:45:42 nt4cats: I use an app that scales the CPU frequency from 250-800MHz depending on load...my guess is that the overall strain on the CPU is actually less, since it's running at half the stock speed during all the time it's on standby Apr 04 16:46:13 idontwan2know: that sounds pretty reasonable Apr 04 16:47:51 nfoxTc: There are youtube videos showing what the performance is like at 800MHz. I do think they're a tad misleading, though. Apr 04 16:48:31 They clearly deleted the call log, internet history, most of their conversations before filming the videos. Apr 04 16:49:04 Those make a HUGE difference in how fast the phone app, browser, and messaging app load. At least the first time Apr 04 16:49:42 yeah Apr 04 16:49:45 got a link? Apr 04 16:52:27 If you want good test do this: flick up the launcher, start an app, flick up the launcher, start another app, etc Apr 04 16:52:31 Do this in rapid succession Apr 04 16:52:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li_KGpLzk5k Apr 04 16:56:03 wow...not bad but not worth the risk in my eyes Apr 04 16:57:16 Understandable Apr 04 16:57:22 http://www.bughost.org/pipermail/power/2007-May/000166.html explains why clocking the speed up saves battery with the ondemand scheduler Apr 04 16:58:24 I started getting really bad battery life around the time I installed the 800MHz kernel, but it continued after I uninstalled the kernel to prepare for 1.4.1.1 Apr 04 16:58:38 I now think it was related to the facebook beta. Apr 04 17:00:06 if the cpu is constantly running at 800MHz and is being worked it will drain the battery faster than if it is constantly running at 500MHz and being worked. Apr 04 17:01:13 I'm still skeptical of the "overclocking made my battery life so much better" claims. Apr 04 17:01:34 But I'm skeptical of most people's claims about battery life. Apr 04 17:01:46 They don't account for their usage patterns. Apr 04 17:02:03 no, exactly Apr 04 17:02:31 however I will note that I forgot to put my phone on charge when I went to bed last night; it was at around 96% charge, and when I got up this morning it was at 89% Apr 04 17:02:49 that's after about 8 hours of sitting next to my bed doing absolutely nothing Apr 04 17:03:05 it syncs Apr 04 17:03:13 so its not doing nothing :) Apr 04 17:03:17 sbromwich: 8 hours of sleep? Can I have your life? Apr 04 17:03:34 you don't want my life. Apr 04 17:03:56 can I borrow the "8 hours of sleep" part? Apr 04 17:04:07 I run the big iron for the local health authority and typically work 12-18 hour days Apr 04 17:04:21 I have 4 days of vacation with the long weekend then my next day off will be in august Apr 04 17:04:26 still sure you want my life? ;-) Apr 04 17:04:34 sbromwich: that seems incompatible with getting 8 hours of sleep. Apr 04 17:04:51 well spotted Apr 04 17:04:59 typically I get 4-6 hours at most Apr 04 17:05:51 oh, and you'll also have to cycle around 25km a day 6 days a week Apr 04 17:06:16 sbromwich: but the 375K they pay you (plus free and easy access to co-eds with loose morals) makes it worthwhile, right? Apr 04 17:06:53 I think they call those benefits "with benefits" Apr 04 17:07:01 2 words: student nurses. Apr 04 17:07:18 see you guys later Apr 04 17:11:13 time to go down the pub for lunch... laters Apr 04 18:15:15 . Apr 04 19:28:17 wow i've never seen the oreo effect on the pre Apr 04 19:28:20 this one has it terrible Apr 04 20:04:20 I had the no auto-off while charging patch installed and with the 1.4.1.1 it wont remove and errors on update Apr 04 20:16:18 anyone have a thought on how to uninstall the patch? Apr 04 21:07:28 Hey, I have a question and was wondering if I could get some help... Apr 04 21:08:42 anyone? Apr 04 21:08:49 if you ask there is a chance that you get an answer ;) Apr 04 21:09:10 ask away Apr 04 21:10:25 haha, thanks. So a while ago I dropped my Pre in a cup of water (dumb I know). Anyways, I bought one off of ebay and it has a bad esn. I want to put the esn from my water pooched one onto the good one. Is that possible? Apr 04 21:12:14 i dont think so Apr 04 21:12:20 but whats an "bad ESN"? Apr 04 21:12:26 I'm using the tutorial here: http://clipze.com/hackerz/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=2 to change the EDN info, but when I try to flash the 1.03 firmware with the Qinray rom, it gets to 84% and fails. I tried unplugging the phone and restarting it, but it just freezes at the Palm screen. Any ideas? Apr 04 21:12:38 bad ESN as in I can't activate it on Sprint Apr 04 21:13:00 did the seller say it had a bad esn? Apr 04 21:13:14 hmkay, cant help you... there is no thing like activation here in germany for pre's Apr 04 21:13:25 he didn't say one way or another. Apr 04 21:13:37 And I was dumb enough not to check Apr 04 21:13:42 well then you should have the ability to return it Apr 04 21:13:49 nah, it's not dumb to not check Apr 04 21:14:13 i've made some dumb buying decisions alright... Apr 04 21:14:38 I'm hoping that i can just return it if I can't change the ESN. It looks like it's possible, but like I said I can't get the 1.03 firmware on there to change it Apr 04 21:15:10 webos 1.03? Apr 04 21:15:48 i mean 1.0.3 Apr 04 21:16:42 yeah Apr 04 21:17:41 will the thread looks like it's... kinda beyond my comprehension Apr 04 21:18:04 lol Apr 04 21:18:44 this is some low level code... my head hurts :P Apr 04 21:19:55 yeah, it's pretty crazy. i'm trying to flash it on a different computer. hopefully it works this time lol Apr 04 21:22:55 i can go into the command line and the linux filesystem of the pre, but no way i'm messing with an ESN... if i were you i'd demand a refund, and buy a new pre (used or new, but check if it can be activated) Apr 04 21:23:43 well, i sent him a message, but he hasn't responded yet. i'll play with it till i hear back from him ;) Apr 04 21:23:54 good idea Apr 04 21:24:03 but you're without a phone until then i guess? Apr 04 21:24:20 nah, I've got a crappy old treo 700p LOL Apr 04 21:24:31 oh wow Apr 04 21:24:39 i don't go back that faer Apr 04 21:24:41 *far Apr 04 21:24:51 my pre plus is actually my first palm device Apr 04 21:24:58 yeah... it was like 20 birds on ebay haha Apr 04 21:25:23 i have a friend who still has an original palm pilot Apr 04 21:25:41 wow. that's old school Apr 04 21:25:47 yep Apr 04 21:25:54 why not just use meta doctor and skip the activation altogether Apr 04 21:26:17 i would, but i still can't activate it on sprint Apr 04 21:26:20 :-\ Apr 04 21:27:25 that's the point Apr 04 21:27:30 to skip activation Apr 04 21:27:38 so you can play with the phone Apr 04 21:27:41 in the meantime Apr 04 21:28:50 yeah thats true Apr 04 21:29:12 it's something to do ;) Apr 04 21:29:32 i've never used meta doctor Apr 04 21:29:44 but i've heard good things Apr 04 21:29:50 yeah me too Apr 04 21:29:52 you do need linux though Apr 04 21:30:25 yeah, i've got ubuntu Apr 04 21:30:26 :) Apr 04 21:30:38 nice Apr 04 21:30:56 ubuntu is king. waiting for 10.04 Apr 04 21:31:09 i don't have it running now though. my laptop isn't doing so well Apr 04 21:31:16 have you tried linux mint? Apr 04 21:31:19 no Apr 04 21:31:22 it's my favorite Apr 04 21:31:27 right now i'm on an old ibook g4 Apr 04 21:31:29 it's based on ubuntu Apr 04 21:31:33 haha Apr 04 21:31:35 nice Apr 04 21:31:35 interesting Apr 04 21:31:37 yep Apr 04 21:31:50 i usually dual boot OS X and ubuntu Apr 04 21:31:57 i just got a macbook pro a few months ago Apr 04 21:32:07 i'm going to buy one soon Apr 04 21:32:14 but first an hp mini 311 Apr 04 21:32:17 to hackintosh Apr 04 21:32:17 yeah the unibody is way nice Apr 04 21:32:28 but it doesn't come cheap of course Apr 04 21:32:29 haha, is that the one with the dx10 card? Apr 04 21:32:42 the mini 311? no it's got nvidia ion Apr 04 21:33:00 yeah, i think its a dx10 card. i saw some guy play cod4 on it Apr 04 21:33:30 maybe Apr 04 21:33:35 i'm not a huge gamer Apr 04 21:33:55 kk Apr 04 21:33:59 i'm perfectly fine with my page of games on my pre+ Apr 04 21:34:19 but i do watch high def video and film some sometimes so nvida ion should be handy Apr 04 21:34:50 what are the best games for the pre? Apr 04 21:35:08 well, we're still in baby stages with the pdk but... Apr 04 21:35:36 monopoly, scrabble, tetris, need for speed, uno, let's golf Apr 04 21:35:45 quake is in homebrew Apr 04 21:36:05 i'm a fan of labyrinth (it's non-pdk fyi) Apr 04 21:36:13 air hockey is addicting Apr 04 21:36:27 visual boy advance, the game boy emulator Apr 04 21:36:33 but it's homebrew Apr 04 21:36:47 those are all fun Apr 04 21:37:36 Hi Apr 04 21:38:22 Anything serious going on that I shouldn't interupt? I have an sdk question, but no one seems to be around in the #webos channel at the moment... Apr 04 21:38:32 kk, i'll have to check it out Apr 04 21:38:50 sure, go ahead and ask, I don't know much though Apr 04 21:39:39 me too Apr 04 21:39:45 WTB moar egaudet Apr 04 21:39:47 Maybe its more of a css question... I'm trying to use custom icons for the commandMenu (bottom of the screen). I'm just trying to figure out what exactly to put under "icon" and "iconPath" attributes Apr 04 21:40:30 The docs say iconPath is relative to the app directory, but its unclear whether it means "app" directory or "your application's root directory" Apr 04 21:40:44 And I'm not completely sure whether or not the path should include the icon filename. Apr 04 21:42:09 i would guess that you need the icon filename and it would be in the app directoryt Apr 04 21:43:04 Got it working... It looks like you do need the filename, you don't need the "icon" attribute at all, and its relative to application root, not app directory. Thanks! Apr 04 21:46:46 good job! Apr 04 21:46:52 sick Apr 04 21:46:58 was curious about custom command buttons myself Apr 04 21:54:05 sbromwich: that article on ondemand and power is a good one Apr 04 21:54:53 on the forums? Apr 04 21:55:45 I was just trying to make it, how can I put this simply, easy for an end user to implement but also useful to anyone who, um, is more advanced than an end user ;-) Apr 04 21:56:14 sbromwich: the one you linked. http://www.bughost.org/pipermail/power/2007-May/000166.html Apr 04 21:56:18 ah right Apr 04 21:56:30 sbromwich: did you post it on the forums too? Apr 04 21:56:38 yeah, well, seeing as arjan was one of the guys who wrote the ondemand scheduler he's about as authentic as possible :-) Apr 04 21:56:45 yeah, somewhere... let me see if I can find it again Apr 04 21:57:07 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/239159-huge-battery-improvement-after-800-mhz-patch-2.html Apr 04 21:57:58 and no offense to the palm guy but their userspace module really sucks Apr 04 21:58:33 I forgot to put my phone on charge last night and if I remember the numbers it was 96% at 12:30, and 89% at 9am Apr 04 21:58:58 that's with phone and wifi one, bluetooth and gps off Apr 04 21:59:02 ^one^on Apr 04 21:59:07 sbromwich: http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/11607789999 Apr 04 21:59:39 heavens... thanks :-) Apr 04 22:00:05 sbromwich: there's so much conjecture in this area that factual posts like that need to stand out Apr 04 22:00:19 And I should update with my discovery on powersave_bias Apr 04 22:00:21 *grin* Apr 04 22:00:26 I've noticed that ;-) Apr 04 22:00:35 any good free ringtone sits? Apr 04 22:00:37 sites* Apr 04 22:00:55 I seem to have become something of a threadkiller... Every thread I post to that gives the actual facts seems to come to a screaming halt ;-) Apr 04 22:01:15 sbromwich: the good thing is that the guys who actually do the kernel patches (as opposed to the people who post about them in the forums) are working in this channel to create a single best-practice kernel for this stuff Apr 04 22:01:34 hOoLiGaN`: if you're from the uk, http://www.fop.ns.ca/ringtone/ Apr 04 22:02:01 rwhitby: I'd *really* like to see a kernel with the rt patches applied Apr 04 22:02:47 hOoLiGaN`: http://www.fop.ns.ca/ringtone/silo.mp3 is the only one that will be particularly useful if you are non-UK (or don't recognise any of the names) Apr 04 22:03:32 sbromwich: BTW, we believe that setting min freq to 125 causes stability issues Apr 04 22:03:44 (or at least there are reports of that) Apr 04 22:04:19 sbromwich: you might want to note that in the post in case people just cut and paste blindly Apr 04 22:05:05 hmmm Apr 04 22:05:10 mine runs at 125 most of the time Apr 04 22:05:51 my suspicion is that it's down to having a "bad" CPU which can't run at the high speeds so long Apr 04 22:06:02 that's why I started twiddling with powersave_bias and chums Apr 04 22:07:09 interesting, I just checked and today it's spent most of the time at 500 Apr 04 22:07:40 125 is second though Apr 04 22:08:58 rwhitby: is 250 considered safe for a min? Apr 04 22:11:01 alright thx sbromwich Apr 04 22:11:04 i am not from the UK :/ Apr 04 22:12:18 rwhitby: posted another update showing how to spec min to 250 and also what to do in a "doctor doctor it hurts when I poke my finger in my eye what should I do" situation. Apr 04 22:17:28 thx Apr 04 22:18:14 np Apr 04 22:18:18 I even managed not to be sarcastic Apr 04 22:18:23 moderately, anyway Apr 04 22:25:09 rwhitby: was that configs-assistant.js diff of any use, out of interest? Apr 04 22:25:13 did it even work? ;-) Apr 04 22:25:39 sbromwich: it's still in my inbox queue. I was focused on HGoH yesterday Apr 04 22:25:57 ok np, just curious Apr 04 22:26:08 ( HGoH: http://bit.ly/holy-grail-of-homebrew ) Apr 04 22:28:55 wow, 200 extra followers due to the PreCentral article overnight Apr 04 22:28:58 oh. my first thought was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to pay for all the hardware and dev beer ;-) Apr 04 22:29:19 which precentral article? Apr 04 22:29:40 http://www.precentral.net/patching-away-webos-internals-webos-1411 Apr 04 22:30:07 ahhhh... yeah, understandably so ;-) Apr 04 22:30:11 v. nice feature Apr 04 22:32:33 oh, do you need any odds and ends of hardware? Apr 04 22:32:44 we have scads of old sticks of ram kicking around at work from upgrades, for example Apr 04 22:36:43 Yoppo: Is this Sconix? Apr 04 22:39:03 I bought my phone off of ebay and I have hadfor about 3 months and I noticed a crack forming in the lower right hand side of the screen and it just showed up unexpectedly Apr 04 22:39:48 Well if you're there.....Lately Mode Switcher has been loading Default Mode randomly when I'm using my Pre. I've noticed that it usually happens right after my phone lags a bit. And also when Default Mode does load, it doesn't load Quick System Tasks (which I have set to open when Default Mode loads) Apr 04 22:45:46 Yoppo: yeps it's me :) and I am here Apr 04 22:46:38 althou I am ready to go to sleep as you can see it was supposed to be gollyzilla: not Yoppo obviously :) Apr 04 22:48:36 Ummmm I don't really understand, but I did understand that you're going to bed. So I'll leave you alone and I'll just post this on the forum for you to see later. Apr 04 22:49:08 Anyway both of those are known problems Apr 04 22:49:42 The first haven't happened for me now after I doctored to 1.4.1 and for that I don't know the reason Apr 04 22:50:53 but the second I think I finally know the reason why those system requests are sometimes dropped (thanks to the news about the garbage collector behaviour in Precentral). Apr 04 22:52:17 So at least the QST not launching I am able to fix, but this has to wait after my thesis is done Apr 04 22:52:54 sbromwich: ka6sox is the guy to talk to about what odds and ends of hardware we could use Apr 04 22:53:09 but for the first the only reason I can think of would be that MS is completely restarted by Luna and that's a bit odd Apr 04 23:07:06 are you running blades or are they full machines? Apr 04 23:07:09 oops Apr 04 23:08:26 are blades not full machines? Apr 04 23:08:35 it was a mispost Apr 04 23:08:48 by full machines I meant "machines with full server cases" Apr 04 23:08:59 aka rackmount Apr 04 23:09:03 not chassis mount Apr 04 23:14:42 power5 doubled performance on p6, p6+ was a bump, p7 is supposed to double again Apr 04 23:15:07 hmmm... my tab key would appear to be having problems tonight. Apr 04 23:15:53 sbromwich: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/infrastructure Apr 04 23:16:38 sbromwich: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/NAS-Server/nas_server_full_rack is the newest server - the 2U supermicro chassis in the middle of the rach Apr 04 23:16:42 rack Apr 04 23:17:09 nice Apr 04 23:17:19 the autobuilder is in a different rack: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/Cheli/Cheli_full_rack Apr 04 23:17:35 we used to be in the same rack as master.kernel.org, but we got moved when we went from 1U to 2U Apr 04 23:17:47 nice rack indeed Apr 04 23:18:10 OSUOSL is a fantastic resource for open source projects. I cannot speak highly enough of them. Apr 04 23:19:02 yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about them Apr 04 23:19:38 ooo, enlightenment servers :) Apr 04 23:20:10 ibm gave them a p720 server? nice! Apr 04 23:21:37 if osuosl have a QS20 blade they must have a matching blade chassis... they could Apr 04 23:21:42 push ibm for some js23's Apr 04 23:31:07 what exactly is this nascar app I keep seeing complaints about? I'm guessing it's something that's not available in canada, what's so bad about it that everyone wants to get rid of it? Apr 04 23:33:11 It's nascar,thats why Apr 04 23:33:31 exactly Apr 04 23:33:45 Not many people like to watch cars drive around in circles Apr 04 23:34:12 does it do anything beyond just being an icon in the launcher? Apr 04 23:34:25 I'm not comprehending why there's such a level of animosity against it Apr 04 23:34:53 there's a ton of apps I don't use on my pre; my "workaround" is simple - don't click on the damn things. Apr 04 23:35:03 It's just not used frequently by many WebOS users Apr 04 23:35:48 sbromwich: personally i don't get it either Apr 04 23:35:54 hmmm, ok Apr 04 23:36:09 zsoc: at least I feel better that it's not just me then ;-) Apr 04 23:40:14 Am i the only person still getting the whole, "phone not turning on when you hit the button / lock screen not displaying / tons of luna restarts in 1.4.1.1? Apr 04 23:40:30 sbromwich: it's hated by people who don't install the patch to add new launcher pages, cause they run out of icon slots in the default launcher Apr 04 23:40:31 yes Apr 04 23:40:31 I even full erased/doctored, and I'm still getting must of the 1.4 crazy Apr 04 23:41:00 Also, new preware alpha is tasty. Apr 04 23:42:17 smelly cat farts Apr 04 23:42:42 I didn't even realised there was a limitation on the number of slots Apr 04 23:42:50 it must be pretty high, mine goes on for pages Apr 04 23:42:54 sbromwich: well scrolling down is annoying Apr 04 23:43:23 from all the 800mhz youtube demo videos scrolling up and down appears to be all the average user does *Anyway* ;-) Apr 04 23:43:33 haha Apr 04 23:43:54 sorry, couldn't resist Apr 04 23:43:57 sbromwich: oh, maybe the limit was only in early webos versions Apr 04 23:44:10 ah, ok Apr 04 23:46:07 So I'm still surprised no-one has reported a real logic error in the C ipkgservice yet Apr 04 23:46:20 (the one in Preware Alpha) Apr 04 23:46:45 did you find one? Apr 04 23:46:56 I couldn't find anything obvious apart from the data input issues I mentioned Apr 04 23:47:05 I'm on 1.4.1.1 and I'm still experiencing the 1.4 lockscreen bug Apr 04 23:47:06 sorry... *user* input Apr 04 23:47:27 lockscreen = locks up when you turn it on? Apr 04 23:47:46 sbromwich: no, where the lockscreen doesn't show (except the lock icon) Apr 04 23:47:48 i'm getting it too Apr 04 23:48:13 that sounds... interesting Apr 04 23:48:35 I had the reverse when I played with an all-black theme: everything on the lockscreen showed *except* the lock. Apr 04 23:48:44 zsoc: exactly Apr 04 23:50:01 gollyzila, man, glad im not the only one Apr 04 23:50:01 and the not-turning-on-when-you-hit buttons Apr 04 23:50:02 im getting them just as bad, if not worse, as 1.4 Apr 04 23:50:29 FuMan: that is completely fixed for me Apr 04 23:50:39 I fixed that by removing all my installed patches Apr 04 23:51:17 I have had that luna-restart bug YET Apr 04 23:51:46 heh... I have to kill LunaSysMgr on a regular basis myself ;-) Apr 04 23:51:55 it doesn't take too well to being poked and prodded at Apr 04 23:52:25 hrm Apr 04 23:52:47 is there a reason why preware alpha doesn't have the web-updates, beta-updates, and webos-internals feeds? Apr 04 23:53:34 also, I found a fix for the volume buttons being accidentally pressed and muted/maxed: rip the damn thing off and press the recessed microswitches with a fingernail Apr 04 23:53:43 I doubt if that would be a palm recommended fix though Apr 04 23:54:27 FuMan: I am looking at all those feeds and more right now in preware alpha Apr 04 23:55:01 refresh the feeds a couple of times and see if you see it actually trying to download or not - a couple of times I've had a 404 when (I'm guessing) the package lists are being regenerated Apr 05 00:13:57 well Apr 05 00:14:04 would it be related to how i got everything Apr 05 00:14:14 bootstrapped old preware, installed alpha Apr 05 00:14:24 uninstall old, uninstalled package manager Apr 05 00:15:06 hi Apr 05 00:15:29 hello webchatter Apr 05 00:16:18 it says package manager service isn't running but I installed it Apr 05 00:16:42 and sbromwich, its not even tryin Apr 05 00:16:47 gabe__: i'm guessing it's not running Apr 05 00:16:54 I can't get preware to run Apr 05 00:17:07 FuMan: check the feed isn't disabled, try readding it? Apr 05 00:17:15 gabe__: what method did you use to install package manager service? Apr 05 00:17:16 well, the feed isn't even in the list Apr 05 00:17:21 so its not disabled Apr 05 00:17:29 and yeah, i can readd it, but i dont know the addresses for them Apr 05 00:19:22 I'm just rebooting mine at the moment, I'll see if I can't grab them off it for you once it's done Apr 05 00:21:55 palm-webos-device ipkg # cat palm-web-updates.conf palm-beta-updates.conf webos-internals.conf | awk {'print $3'} Apr 05 00:21:55 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/palm-web-updates Apr 05 00:21:55 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/palm-beta-updates Apr 05 00:21:55 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/all Apr 05 00:21:55 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/armv7 Apr 05 00:21:59 there you go Apr 05 00:22:01 yeah, thank you Apr 05 00:22:09 i actually just went to http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/ Apr 05 00:22:11 and grabbed em Apr 05 00:22:15 oooooh shit that didnt work Apr 05 00:22:16 that works too ;-) Apr 05 00:22:19 or not? Apr 05 00:22:20 tons of errors Apr 05 00:22:28 what sort? Apr 05 00:22:31 hrm, they all have 2 http Apr 05 00:22:33 musta doubled it Apr 05 00:22:41 FuMan: uninstalling Package Manager Service deleted the feeds Apr 05 00:22:50 FuMan: reinstall Preware Alpha Apr 05 00:23:20 I need to push an updated to Package Manager Service so it doesn't delete the feed files on removal Apr 05 00:24:38 damn, and you can't edit custom feeds once you add them... Apr 05 00:24:43 and hrm, thats kinda strange Apr 05 00:24:56 feed urls have http built in Apr 05 00:25:08 but if you don't delete it, then you get doublehttp when you are trying to use them Apr 05 00:25:21 um. yes? Apr 05 00:25:41 the http:// is there as a convenience for people who are typing feeds in on the keyboard, I would hazard Apr 05 00:25:47 yeah Apr 05 00:25:48 but if you use them Apr 05 00:25:55 as in, i just add ipkg blah Apr 05 00:26:08 then, when it goes to pull the feed, it pulls http://http://ipkg Apr 05 00:26:11 uh-huh... Apr 05 00:26:32 wow, that *does* sound odd Apr 05 00:26:48 I thought you were just cut and pasting the http://ipkg url straight in Apr 05 00:27:08 well, that would cause the same issue i imagine Apr 05 00:27:23 let me try it here for SNG Apr 05 00:27:26 im gonna try deleting the http, adding just ipkg, and see if it adds a single one Apr 05 00:29:20 can't replicate Apr 05 00:29:32 on the alpha? Apr 05 00:29:58 ill try again Apr 05 00:30:09 I put www.fop.ns.ca/test/ in as the address and the URL requested according to my logs was: Apr 05 00:30:12 and resintalling the package manager service overwrote the feeds, so i got em all back Apr 05 00:30:12 10.2.1.20 - - [04/Apr/2010:21:29:14 -0300] "GET /test/Packages.gz HTTP/1.1" 404 332 "-" "Wget" Apr 05 00:30:37 this is alpha 0.9.56 Apr 05 00:31:51 well hell Apr 05 00:32:12 i just readded one, using the prepopulated http://, and it worked as aspected Apr 05 00:32:30 but also, this time, unlike last time, i got a popup prompt, asking me to confirm the feed add with the red/green buttons Apr 05 00:32:39 maybe i was running a different alpha or something Apr 05 00:32:56 did you follow the exact same procedure to add a feed? Apr 05 00:33:09 yep Apr 05 00:33:15 well, no i guess not Apr 05 00:33:17 i did optware that time Apr 05 00:33:33 did beta-updates and web-updates last time Apr 05 00:34:01 give them a go again with the same procedure and see if you can replicate it? Apr 05 00:34:14 test cases that prove a bug are always useful to the developer ;-) Apr 05 00:35:37 does anyone know if there's an easy userspace way to see what's using the gp timer interrupt? It's the #1 cause of wakeups for me Apr 05 00:35:48 nope, damn Apr 05 00:35:53 same feed, no error Apr 05 00:35:58 at least its working correctly I suppose :) Apr 05 00:36:11 there is that :-) Apr 05 00:36:20 I had to update a couple of times before everything got in sync Apr 05 00:36:26 it's called alpha for a reason, after all ;-) Apr 05 00:36:54 yeah, i like the progress bars :> Apr 05 00:36:59 and not having the java restarts is nice Apr 05 00:37:04 i wonder if this is the way everything is going to go Apr 05 00:37:05 wait till you see the speed of the package updates once you have all the feeds loaded and I think you'll be happier Apr 05 00:37:07 *nod* Apr 05 00:37:16 I'm holding out for someone to port perl bindings Apr 05 00:37:22 homebrew/palm slowly but surely replacing all these fancy java services with C Apr 05 00:37:27 *nod* Apr 05 00:37:40 that or someone gets GPE or opie up and running Apr 05 00:41:16 FuMan: C is more native, it just makes sense Apr 05 00:41:50 yeah Apr 05 00:42:10 its just sorta funny how they preached Web standard development... and any program that wants to actually run will, will eventually be C Apr 05 00:42:54 to be anal, any program decomposes down a very long binary number. Apr 05 00:43:16 when you buy a piece of software, all you are buying is a very long number Apr 05 00:43:19 FuMan: i don't see your point? Apr 05 00:43:43 C Services may make the APIs possible, but it is still a Web development platform Apr 05 00:44:12 which just gave me a great idea for an app to join the host of useless apps on the palm catalog: a front panel led so one can toggle in one's own opcodes. Apr 05 00:44:43 heh Apr 05 00:44:45 meh, no point really Apr 05 00:44:48 too uneducated to have one. Apr 05 00:45:31 nothing wrong with learning outside your boundaries though Apr 05 00:46:23 all the low level stuff is C or assembler anyway Apr 05 00:47:50 FuMan: the web api is still excellent / preferred for the vast majority of "apps" you see on other phone platforms today Apr 05 00:48:28 Especially with tools like ares around Apr 05 00:55:26 FuMan: yes, I'm moving all our homebrew services from Java to C eventually Apr 05 00:58:41 do you expect that is something that palm will follow suit with? Apr 05 01:00:03 I very much doubt it myself Apr 05 01:00:23 it would mean rewriting pretty much the entire user interface layer, and I suspect that have far more interesting things to be doing Apr 05 01:06:51 * rwhitby bbl Apr 05 01:13:07 zsoc: well, it's a web development platform with plugins, is the new model, and plugins means mixed js/C apps without services Apr 05 01:13:18 but yeah they're not abandoning web Apr 05 01:13:50 destinal: oh how i missed you lol Apr 05 01:14:25 * oil thinks plugin model is good Apr 05 01:14:46 oil Apr 05 01:14:52 zsoc: likewise, it's really good to be back. :) Apr 05 01:14:54 How'd the family reunion go? Apr 05 01:15:03 aka xblfriends :D Apr 05 01:15:27 lol Apr 05 01:15:31 i didnt do shit Apr 05 01:15:52 I like to pretend everyone from webos-internals looks like nt4cats Apr 05 01:16:14 noooooo, well, hope you enjoyed the family none the less :> Apr 05 01:16:21 * oil doesnt know what nt4cats looks like Apr 05 01:16:32 he is an odd guy Apr 05 01:16:36 he joined just to ask about that? lol Apr 05 01:18:01 is nt4cats=not for cats, or nt4cats= winNT for cats? Apr 05 01:18:25 * ka6sox has been wondering that too. Apr 05 01:18:36 neither iirc Apr 05 01:18:42 someone grep the logs lol Apr 05 01:19:40 harder to do from my pre :-) Apr 05 01:20:11 open terminal, wget recursively, grep ;) Apr 05 01:20:40 the things one can do from his pre are actually ridiculous Apr 05 01:22:39 lol, oh I know. I also know that I'll accidentally decide that I don't like my terminal font size, and change it before remembering it'll blow up my phone :-) Apr 05 01:23:48 hahaha Apr 05 01:23:55 excerrent Apr 05 01:24:15 "the things one an do from his pre are actually ridiculous"- completely due to the people here ::applauds:: Apr 05 01:24:34 *people who frequent this channel Apr 05 01:24:49 does anyone know/have speculation on why some ext3 LVs are mounted ordered and others writeback? Apr 05 01:26:16 and I can (to save other people the bother of testing) confirm that mounting with data=journal is utterly dog slow. Apr 05 01:28:09 zinge: i will still not get over the time, when we were first figuring out how SDL worked, and I actually ported an SDL app to webos with my Pre, the editing done in vim in Terminal and the building done in a debian chroot. Apr 05 01:29:26 nice. nowhere near as impreesive, but I regularly confound relatives by opening terminal, ssh'ing to their pre's, and editing apps I wrote for them. Apr 05 01:30:11 I sit in meetings and watch my servers report issues to my irc server Apr 05 01:30:33 intermittently I turn to people and say things like "patient registration server is down in cobequid" Apr 05 01:30:50 people can't understand how I can get so much information from "just a phone". Apr 05 01:34:25 yup Apr 05 01:35:26 haha Apr 05 01:35:30 that's so much better :) Apr 05 01:36:14 I wish I had time to keep up with all the new sdl/pdk stuff that everyone is working on. lately I've only been able to come in here when I need help with something I'm working on. Apr 05 01:39:15 anyone with command line/vi/remount experience feel like running a test for me to see if their speed gets improved? Apr 05 01:40:30 edit /etc/fstab and remove ,data=writeback from /dev/mapper/store-var and move it to /dev/mapper/store-log instead Apr 05 01:42:30 how likely is that to break things and cause me to not be able to use my phone before I can plug it in to a compter again? Apr 05 01:43:01 well, if you want to wait about 30 seconds I'm just finishing booting mine Apr 05 01:43:13 if you cock up /etc/fstab it'll stop it booting Apr 05 01:44:11 Hai. Apr 05 01:44:21 Who here has tried Jason's FB chat shim thingy? Apr 05 01:44:29 although I just thought... a quick way to do it as a test fixable by power cycle is mount -o remount,data=writeback /dev/mapper/store/-log /var/log ; mount -o remount,data=ordered /dev/mapper/store-var /var Apr 05 01:45:04 WFM Apr 05 01:45:29 I don't mind testing, but I need to be able to get calls, and won't be gome for another hour or two :-) Apr 05 01:45:54 yeah I wouldn't do it if you don't have a backup method to hand Apr 05 01:46:04 lingfish: I have Apr 05 01:46:10 trying it from the CLI is fine, you might need to pull the battery but that would be it Apr 05 01:46:21 zinge: does it work? heh. I just see my Pre sitting there attempting to sign in ;) Apr 05 01:46:21 run sync first just to make sure all data is flushes Apr 05 01:46:27 ^flushes^flushed Apr 05 01:46:37 lingfish: nope, that's what I had too Apr 05 01:46:44 zinge: ok, ta. Apr 05 01:47:04 palm-webos-device / # mount | grep ext3 | grep var Apr 05 01:47:04 /dev/mapper/store-var on /var type ext3 (rw,noatime,data=ordered) Apr 05 01:47:04 /dev/mapper/store-log on /var/log type ext3 (rw,noatime,data=writeback) Apr 05 01:47:04 /dev/mapper/store-var on /usr/local type ext3 (rw,noatime,data=ordered) Apr 05 01:47:04 palm-webos-device / # Apr 05 01:47:14 made me a little nervous to see /usr/local mounted data=writeback. Apr 05 01:47:14 lingfish: the messegings plugins/patches thread has one that works though Apr 05 01:47:36 speed seems fine Apr 05 01:47:52 I can, as in the numerous youtube video, scroll up and down the launcher very quickly Apr 05 01:47:54 zinge: yeah I had noticed that, but haven't tried it yet Apr 05 01:48:22 heh, I still can't download the FB beta again either. Apr 05 01:48:43 it might be psychosomatic but preware alpha seems to process the feed listings more quickly, too Apr 05 01:48:47 it works, but it just gives you random numbers instead of names. you have to guess who is who by their pictures Apr 05 01:48:54 sbromwich: are you saying the lag issue could involve how data is being written to a mounted partition? Apr 05 01:49:20 yeah Apr 05 01:49:22 wouldn't c services be running a bit faster than java would? Apr 05 01:49:39 (for alpha) Apr 05 01:49:47 I think /var should be mounted ordered and /var/log mounted writeback Apr 05 01:49:54 http://batleth.sapienti-sat.org/projects/FAQs/ext3-faq.html Apr 05 01:50:10 search for Q: I updated ext3 today. Got all of my mounts converted. Now on boot, I see: "EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode". Is this normal? Apr 05 01:50:23 explains the different types, and why I was slightly nervous Apr 05 01:50:31 zinge: in theory yes, C is a bit less abstracted Apr 05 01:50:40 zinge: oh wow... I just waited a while and it's actually working... Apr 05 01:50:57 is there anything in particular that is known to thrash the bollocks off the filesystem? Apr 05 01:51:09 sbromwich: no, please do all of things you can think of and report back Apr 05 01:51:25 s/report back/write a patch for them/ Apr 05 01:51:25 zsoc meant: sbromwich: no, please do all of things you can think of and write a patch for them Apr 05 01:51:26 that's the problem... I'm not a typical pre user by any imagination Apr 05 01:51:38 that's easy, I have svn Apr 05 01:51:44 for /etc, that is Apr 05 01:52:41 palm-webos-device /etc # svn diff -r 1 fstab Apr 05 01:52:41 Index: fstab Apr 05 01:52:41 =================================================================== Apr 05 01:52:41 --- fstab(revision 1) Apr 05 01:52:41 +++ fstab(working copy) Apr 05 01:52:42 @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ Apr 05 01:52:42 # Apr 05 01:52:43 rootfs/ext3ro,suid,dev,exec,auto,nouser,async,noatime11 Apr 05 01:52:43 -/dev/mapper/store-var/varext3noatime,data=writeback00 Apr 05 01:52:44 -/dev/mapper/store-log/var/logext3noatime00 Apr 05 01:52:44 +/dev/mapper/store-var/varext3noatime00 Apr 05 01:52:45 +/dev/mapper/store-log/var/logext3noatime,data=writeback00 Apr 05 01:52:45 /dev/mapper/store-update/var/lib/updateext3noauto,noatime00 Apr 05 01:52:46 proc/procprocdefaults00 Apr 05 01:52:52 ack please pastebin instead Apr 05 01:52:56 flooding bad Apr 05 01:53:01 sbromwich: preware alpha should process feeds quicker, cause we improved the algorithm to work in 4Kb chunks Apr 05 01:53:06 zinge: and now, even though I've gone offline, it is still showing FB contacts and stuff... I think that hack is a little broken and I'll remove that account ;) Apr 05 01:53:38 lingfish: that's what I decided too Apr 05 01:53:49 http://www.fop.ns.ca/fstab.diff Apr 05 01:54:08 rwhitby: it seems faster than when I did the same before rebooting Apr 05 01:54:19 but again... it may be psychosomatic Apr 05 01:54:59 sbromwich: after installing preware alpha, you're still running the old service until a reboot Apr 05 01:55:13 rwhitby: I've rebooted around 15 times today Apr 05 01:55:18 ah, ok Apr 05 01:55:21 (as in "shutdown -r now") Apr 05 01:56:33 either this is severely psychosomatic, something was bollicksed on my system, or it's up to twice as fast depending on which part of preware alpha I'm hitting. Apr 05 01:56:57 both the service and the client should be faster than plain old preware Apr 05 01:57:16 I've been using preware alpha since some time yesterday Apr 05 01:58:14 sbromwich: as far as things that hit the filesystem a bunch... maybe internalz? open a directory with a whole bunch of files or something maybe? I'm just making things up here... Apr 05 01:58:25 glider is actually very fun Apr 05 01:58:48 I'm on 0.9.56 at the moment, am I still up date? Apr 05 01:59:02 good idea zinge, thanks Apr 05 02:03:09 sbromwich: yep Apr 05 02:03:13 can someone try running this non-destructive test for me? cd /var/luna && /usr/bin/time find . -type f -exec cat '{}' > /dev/null \; Apr 05 02:03:33 zsoc: glyder2 and hawx are my favourites Apr 05 02:04:07 * rwhitby bbl - more gardening Apr 05 02:04:32 sbromwich: real 0m 1.36s user 0m 0.24s sys 0m 0.39s Apr 05 02:04:44 thanks Apr 05 02:04:51 if you run it again does sys go down? Apr 05 02:04:57 sorry, user Apr 05 02:05:07 halved Apr 05 02:05:14 er Apr 05 02:05:21 yes, user is halved Apr 05 02:05:29 interest method of benchmarking btw lol Apr 05 02:06:07 could you repeat the test with this for me? cd /var/log && /usr/bin/time find . -type f -exec cat '{}' > /dev/null \; Apr 05 02:06:18 best I can do with what's to hand and everyone should have Apr 05 02:06:26 how do I do curly brackets in terminal? Apr 05 02:07:01 sbromwich: real 0m 0.95s user 0m 0.11s sys 0m 0.23s Apr 05 02:07:01 and > for that matter... Apr 05 02:07:17 and once more? Apr 05 02:07:42 zinge: shift+, and shift+. are the < and > Apr 05 02:07:47 not sure you can do curlies Apr 05 02:07:49 zinge: interesting... now I can't remove that account either :/ Apr 05 02:08:07 sbromwich: real 0m 0.33s user 0m 0.08s sys 0m 0.25s Apr 05 02:08:16 lingfish: had to restart, log out, restart again to get it removed Apr 05 02:08:16 thanks Apr 05 02:08:28 zinge: yuh. Apr 05 02:08:50 sbromwich: guess I can't help with that, sorry. Apr 05 02:09:29 thanks for giving it a try zinge :-) Apr 05 02:11:39 the performance seems very similar between the two Apr 05 02:12:08 I think it's either psychosomatic or it's a matter of usage patterns... I would love to hear from anyone else who gives this a go Apr 05 02:12:20 regardless I don't think /var should be mounted writeback or there could be data loss Apr 05 02:12:57 heh Apr 05 02:13:28 certainly considering the number of times I pull the battery on the system, anyway Apr 05 02:17:40 zinge: do you have the FB beta installed? Apr 05 02:18:10 lingfish: yes Apr 05 02:18:37 zinge: damn... need someone that doesn't have it installed. Apr 05 02:19:08 why, what's up? Apr 05 02:19:39 zinge: I had it installed y'day... it was doing weird stuff, so I nuked it. Now tryin to re-add and it just sticks at "Downloading" Apr 05 02:20:15 that's what happens when I try to reinstall the original Apr 05 02:20:24 after I deleted it and decided I want it back Apr 05 02:20:25 weird. Apr 05 02:22:53 have you rebooted your phone since uninstalling? Apr 05 02:23:06 yes Apr 05 02:23:27 it just refuses to re-download/install the origina facebook app now Apr 05 02:23:40 ah, not the problem I thought then. Apr 05 02:23:41 yeah.. just hands on downloading. Apr 05 02:24:18 I will note that the files are stored on a volume mounted writeback which is at risk of data corruption. Apr 05 02:25:17 makes sense. my pre tends to reset a couple times daily in he middle of things for now good reason, so it could have corrupted something Apr 05 02:25:49 *nod* Apr 05 02:25:58 hrm, are the fs's fsck'able? Recommended? Apr 05 02:26:05 fsck during boot Apr 05 02:26:11 otherwise you're fscking a live fs Apr 05 02:26:23 Oh? It forces one on each boot? Apr 05 02:27:41 yup Apr 05 02:27:48 look in /var/fsck Apr 05 02:27:53 it seems to record errors in there Apr 05 02:28:07 I am mildly surprised that I only have 2 Apr 05 02:28:32 also they're dated Sun Jul 19 17:47:04 SRT 2009 or so but the timestamps on the files are within the last 48 hours Apr 05 02:29:10 that directory is empty for me Apr 05 02:29:16 heh, I only have one and its from 2009 Apr 05 02:29:34 bus has arrived at home. goodnight all Apr 05 02:29:40 cya Apr 05 02:29:43 night zinge Apr 05 02:30:08 if you ls -l it what date does it give you? Apr 05 02:30:45 in the file it says jul 2009 but mine are timestamped on the actual files as from today and yesterday Apr 05 02:32:47 Jan 12 Apr 05 02:32:55 I'm gonna run a non-destructive pass. Apr 05 02:33:03 perhaps its the same error and it cannot recover it Apr 05 02:33:10 huh... you too then, that is *weird* Apr 05 02:33:13 could be Apr 05 02:33:33 I'm rather all happy to have edited my fstab now ;-) Apr 05 02:33:46 both mine are complaining about /var, is your's? Apr 05 02:34:13 yup Apr 05 02:34:31 makes sense, it's the only one mounted writeback Apr 05 02:34:42 I can't help wondering what palm were thinking Apr 05 02:34:45 or if it's a bug Apr 05 02:35:17 the thing is, those fs's are marked as not to fsck anyway Apr 05 02:35:19 only / is Apr 05 02:35:41 so they must launch it in an rc Apr 05 02:35:41 where are you seeing that? Apr 05 02:36:23 # Let's always run fsck on /dev/mmcblk0p3 in case user pulled battery Apr 05 02:36:24 # mid-write, whatever. If the fs is marked clean this will be a very Apr 05 02:36:37 in /etc/fstab... the last column designates what order to fsck Apr 05 02:36:40 0 means don't at all Apr 05 02:36:47 yeah, I'm looking at that too now Apr 05 02:36:49 root should always be 1, the rest 2+ Apr 05 02:36:55 ah right Apr 05 02:37:10 brb Apr 05 02:37:50 yeah, they're doing it manually from mountall.sh Apr 05 02:38:10 # nuke any turds left by fsck Apr 05 02:38:10 # nuke any turds left by fsck rm -rf /media/internal/FSCK*.REC Apr 05 02:38:13 lol Apr 05 02:39:08 also check /var/log/var_fsck.log Apr 05 02:39:40 so my conclusion basically is that you'll only see stuff there when there was actually an issue. Apr 05 02:43:11 yeah, someone at palm has a sense of humour ;-) Apr 05 02:45:12 if [ -f /var/.rootfs_fsck -o -n "$WILL_BE_RW" ]; then Apr 05 02:45:12 if grep -q '/dev/root .*ext3 ro' /proc/mounts; then Apr 05 02:45:12 date > /var/log/root_fsck.log Apr 05 02:45:24 so I *think* you will only see the last fsck logged :-/ Apr 05 02:45:33 yeah. Apr 05 02:45:45 Considering they aren't using any form of log rotation/compression, I'm not surprised. Apr 05 02:45:53 oh no, I misread, that's root_fsck Apr 05 02:45:57 heh Apr 05 02:46:02 but same still applies... Apr 05 02:46:13 ah. Apr 05 02:46:14 # We'll also leave the most recent result for inspection, good or bad Apr 05 02:46:14 date > /var/log/var_fsck.log Apr 05 02:46:14 echo "$VARFSCK" >> /var/log/var_fsck.log Apr 05 02:46:16 yeah. Apr 05 02:46:18 :-/ Apr 05 02:46:42 some of my stuff gets rotated but I think I might have installed logrotate Apr 05 02:47:18 given what palm get up to I'm tempted to cat /dev/null > all the files in /var/log Apr 05 02:47:42 heh Apr 05 02:48:33 ugh I HATE this "use forums for software releases" junk! Apr 05 02:48:48 I'm trying to find info on this messaging plugin/patch thing... and its impossible Apr 05 02:49:04 yeah, I'm not big on forums myself Apr 05 02:49:26 usenet is my world, where it takes a keystroke to skip from one message to the next Apr 05 02:49:29 I like forums... just not for THIS kind of thing... we need a wiki that each dev can just update etc Apr 05 02:49:44 Sure, use them for feedback, but not for the app's "homepage" Apr 05 02:49:54 heh Apr 05 02:50:07 more of a prison than a home, I would say Apr 05 02:50:30 it was hard enough to find the latest info on the 600mhz patch Apr 05 02:50:51 heh Apr 05 02:50:55 I just did it from the command line Apr 05 02:51:18 Well see that's the issue -- they've moved to ipk, so the download links were vapourised Apr 05 02:51:25 I didn't realise there *was* a patch until I stumbled across the precentral forums and everyone was all excited about it ;-) Apr 05 02:51:32 So then I had to trawl several massive stupid threads, compare dates etc Apr 05 02:52:50 do you want my /etc/event.d/cpu-scaling? You'll have to step it down to 600Mhz and remove the extra swap partition but you're welcome to it if you want Apr 05 02:53:19 Nah thanks, as of y'day I'm all good... been running it now for about 24 hours. Apr 05 02:53:33 But see, again... wasn't easy to even find the latest WOSQI either.. had to ask Jason. Apr 05 02:53:36 Seems silly to me. Apr 05 02:54:05 what's WOSQI? I keep seeing it mentioned but haven't been overly bothered to look into it Apr 05 02:54:10 Apr 05 02:54:14 *grin* Apr 05 02:54:16 WebOS Quick Install Apr 05 02:54:22 Jason's kinda variant of Preware. Apr 05 02:54:26 but not, but kinda. Apr 05 02:54:29 hmmm, ok Apr 05 02:54:34 for windows or something? Apr 05 02:54:53 Java, so should be xplat Apr 05 02:54:58 ok Apr 05 02:55:17 does it do anything fun other than just (presumedly) install preware? Apr 05 02:55:48 No, it doesn't install Preware... its an ipk installer Apr 05 02:55:52 so kinda does the same thing Apr 05 02:55:55 oh. Apr 05 02:55:58 has utilities for cmdline access and whatnot too Apr 05 02:56:15 In a way, imagine Preware, but old-schoolish in that you need a PC and a cable Apr 05 02:56:17 I think I'll stick with novaterm and/or ssh ;-) Apr 05 02:56:42 Well ditto, but sometimes WOSQI is needed to install stuff (eg the 600mhz patch) Apr 05 02:56:45 heh. Apr 05 02:57:01 all that 600mhz patch is doing is twiddling a syfs setting Apr 05 02:57:16 the 720/800 one is the magic one with the hacked kernel Apr 05 02:57:32 I think its more than one setting, as I tried it by hand to no avail. Apr 05 02:57:52 there's a few settings to change Apr 05 02:58:27 yuh. Apr 05 02:58:31 you have to make the governor ondemand, scaling_max_freq 600mhz, and optionally scaling_min_freq to 125 Apr 05 02:58:41 once that's done it's... well, done Apr 05 02:59:06 I'm slightly surprised palm don't let the phone boot up at 600MHz Apr 05 02:59:30 I reckon its just another card up the sleeve... it'll come. Apr 05 02:59:44 heh Apr 05 02:59:45 The fact that the max values are already 600... adn they bump it up for games... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 05 02:59:56 2010