**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 07 02:59:57 2010
Apr 07 03:00:11 <egaudet> the Makefile for uber-kernel-pre looks fine for additional_files
Apr 07 03:02:23 <egaudet> rwhitby, so palm-install sets IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT ?
Apr 07 03:02:37 <rwhitby> egaudet: so now we somehow need to mknod a file in /dev in that kernel aupt package
Apr 07 03:02:40 <rwhitby> egaudet: it does not
Apr 07 03:03:00 <rwhitby> egaudet: so all scripts with pmPostInstall.script in them need to assume /media/cryptofs/apps
Apr 07 03:03:11 <rwhitby> s/all scripts/all packages/
Apr 07 03:03:12 <infobot> rwhitby meant: egaudet: so all packages with pmPostInstall.script in them need to assume /media/cryptofs/apps
Apr 07 03:03:35 <rwhitby> egaudet: see the top of the preware-alpha or saverestore postinst for example
Apr 07 03:03:51 <rwhitby> egaudet: the postinst also has to do the remount if it needs to.
Apr 07 03:04:03 <rwhitby> egaudet: preware-alpha no longer needs a writeable /
Apr 07 03:04:20 <rwhitby> (as of 1.4.1)
Apr 07 03:04:49 <egaudet> why did it before?
Apr 07 03:05:06 <rwhitby> egaudet: preware-alpha includes the service
Apr 07 03:05:10 <rwhitby> single package install
Apr 07 03:05:29 <egaudet> I mean did preware-alpha ever need writeable / ?
Apr 07 03:05:48 <psykoz> ooh "save" packages in preware, does this do what I think it does?
Apr 07 03:06:07 <psykoz> I won't have to screenshot my list of things installed :D
Apr 07 03:06:12 <rwhitby> egaudet: before /var/palm/event.d/ worked, yes
Apr 07 03:06:28 <rwhitby> psykoz: http://bit.ly/holy-grail-of-homebrew
Apr 07 03:07:05 <psykoz> rwhitby, wow, totally sexy ;)
Apr 07 03:07:14 <psykoz> if preware had boobs, i'd rape it
Apr 07 03:08:05 * rwhitby refrains from retweeting that
Apr 07 03:08:35 * swishy would too 
Apr 07 03:08:36 <swishy> lol
Apr 07 03:09:38 <egaudet> rwhitby, what part of ipkgservice does the mount
Apr 07 03:09:49 <psykoz> retweeting what? :O
Apr 07 03:11:37 <rwhitby> egaudet: luna_methods.c in do_install and do_remove
Apr 07 03:12:41 <egaudet> Here's what I'm thinking regarding all the palm-install stuff
Apr 07 03:13:32 <egaudet> if all of this stuff is done by the service anyway, instead of duplicating it in the scripts to support palm-install, the scripts would call the C service.  Keeping scripts to do script things and not duplicating installer functionality
Apr 07 03:14:15 <egaudet> I think that explains my stance better.
Apr 07 03:14:42 <rwhitby> egaudet: so far, that mount single line is the only overlap
Apr 07 03:15:09 <egaudet> mount, dependencies, singleton groups
Apr 07 03:15:34 <rwhitby> right, so we'd split those things into different methods
Apr 07 03:17:01 <egaudet> hmm well is the goal still to make Preware do what palm-install does?
Apr 07 03:18:38 <rwhitby> egaudet: not exactly
Apr 07 03:19:11 <rwhitby> the goal is that you can install preware or other things with palm-install if they are packaged correctly, and you can orange+tap to remove things safely
Apr 07 03:24:27 <egaudet> OK so I think I'm leaning towards a generic outside script for fail-safe
Apr 07 03:25:05 <egaudet> prepostinst postpostinst preprerm and postprerm ?
Apr 07 03:28:31 <rwhitby> egaudet: postinst-prologue
Apr 07 03:28:38 <rwhitby> postinst-epilogue
Apr 07 03:29:09 <rwhitby> (although I wanted to use something like that for creating the /dev node for the kernel package ...)
Apr 07 03:29:58 <egaudet> nice I like it.  what dev node?
Apr 07 03:30:20 <rwhitby> egaudet: the replacement kernel needs a mknod command run on install
Apr 07 03:30:42 <rwhitby> we won't know why until we get the 1.4.1 sources
Apr 07 03:30:56 <egaudet> dependent package?
Apr 07 03:31:16 <rwhitby> risky - without the mknod you risk hardware damage
Apr 07 03:31:33 <rwhitby> (and since wosqi *still* doesn't support dependencies)
Apr 07 03:31:54 <egaudet> it would force people to... Ok ok fine
Apr 07 03:32:22 <egaudet> see but if the scripts were dependency fail-safe...
Apr 07 03:32:28 <egaudet> postinst-prologue
Apr 07 03:39:30 <rwhitby> egaudet: are you updating patches in the portal, or is dBsooner doing it?
Apr 07 03:40:32 <egaudet> dBsooner is.  I have admin access but I have yet to use it
Apr 07 03:41:59 <EdLin> rwhitby: I'm interested in trying out the preware alpha and some of the stuff in the testing feed, what are the feeds I should put into preware for this?
Apr 07 03:42:48 <rwhitby> ~testing-feed
Apr 07 03:42:49 <infobot> from memory, testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds
Apr 07 03:43:14 <EdLin> ok, thanks.
Apr 07 03:44:20 <Aaron_> good evening
Apr 07 03:44:57 <Aaron_> anyone have a solution if webos doctor will not run? Can't get past 4%
Apr 07 03:49:09 <timothy1jones> Aaron_, maybe launch it from console and see what the error is
Apr 07 03:49:38 <egaudet> alright I'll bbt, night
Apr 07 03:50:09 <Aaron_> may work but I'm too noob to know how to do that
Apr 07 03:50:24 <Aaron_> running windows (shoot me)
Apr 07 03:51:08 <timothy1jones> Aaron_, I was guilty of the same crime up until 2 years ago :)
Apr 07 03:51:42 <Aaron_> lol
Apr 07 03:51:52 <timothy1jones> Aaron_, fire up command prompt and type in java -jar web... <-- name of the webos doctor
Apr 07 03:52:15 <Aaron_> when you say command prompt, you mean novaterm?
Apr 07 03:53:17 <timothy1jones> Aaron_, no from start menu select Run and type in "cmd" and enter
Apr 07 03:56:14 <Aaron_> gotcha. Sorry, this is probably more handholding than you'd like. let's see what we get
Apr 07 03:56:33 <timothy1jones> Aaron_, my friend, I am sorry but I have to run. I hope someone can help you in the meantime
Apr 07 03:56:51 <Aaron_> shoot. thanks for the start.
Apr 07 04:06:28 <Aaron_> I get "update Loading Ramdisk50"  "INFO: Loading Ramdisk: Waiting for device to come back" this is at 4% of the webosdoctor. Then it fails
Apr 07 04:06:41 <Aaron_> any thoughts?
Apr 07 04:21:38 <rwhitby> Aaron_: that means that windows is not seeing the usb connection come back again when the device reboot
Apr 07 04:34:12 <lingfish> wtf... I still cannot download the Facebook beta...
Apr 07 04:35:26 <lingfish> rwhitby: do you have a phone that you don't have it installed on to try?  I'm going via preware, it launches the App Cat app, and just hangs at Downloading
Apr 07 04:39:34 <rwhitby> lingfish: app catalog access depends on the age of your sister's first boyfriend's cat.  it's no use trying to debug it.
Apr 07 04:40:06 <lingfish> rwhitby: lawl... I just wanna see if you can download/install it, and hence see if its their side or mine.
Apr 07 04:40:30 <rwhitby> lingfish: I remember updating it yesterday
Apr 07 04:40:55 <lingfish> So you have successfully installed 1.1.6?
Apr 07 04:41:01 <rwhitby> (this is on my GSM Pre which was first activated in the US so it sees the least apps)
Apr 07 04:41:19 <rwhitby> yep, 1.1.6
Apr 07 04:41:35 <lingfish> hrm.  I had it.. it wasacting dumb with notif's, so uninstalled... and now can't reinstall.
Apr 07 04:41:39 <lingfish> sorry, even download.
Apr 07 04:41:50 <ka6sox> I gotta remember that one...
Apr 07 04:44:40 <rwhitby> lingfish: just downloaded 1.1.6 on the other GSM device too
Apr 07 04:45:39 <lingfish> rwhitby: weird, ta.
Apr 07 04:45:46 <lingfish> Trying over 3G
Apr 07 04:46:16 <lingfish> Weird, same thing.
Apr 07 04:46:17 <lingfish> How annoying.
Apr 07 04:46:37 <rwhitby> lingfish: I did both over wifi
Apr 07 04:47:02 <lingfish> That's what I was doing.
Apr 07 04:47:48 <lingfish> non beta just downloaded/installed just fine
Apr 07 04:47:57 <lingfish> do you have that on as well?  Perhaps its a prereq, which wouldn't make any sense
Apr 07 04:50:41 <lingfish> hrm, nope.
Apr 07 04:51:57 <lingfish> rwhitby: any cruft areas I could look at on the phone to possiblly move/torch, as a suggestion?
Apr 07 04:52:39 <EdLin> rwhitby: I tried logging into my phone with ssh -X, it complained about no xauth. That's in x windows server client or something?
Apr 07 04:53:03 <EdLin> er, x window system client.
Apr 07 04:53:37 <lingfish> rwhitby: ahh, there's something in /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications
Apr 07 04:54:35 <lingfish> rwhitby: do you think there's harm in me mv'ing or rm'ing com.palm.app.facebook.beta out of that dir?
Apr 07 04:56:31 <lingfish> rwhitby: or a cleaner way to remove an app that thinks its removed, but isn't?
Apr 07 04:56:34 <EdLin> don't worry, if this makes my Pre crawl, I'll just overclock it to 3GHz. ;-)
Apr 07 04:57:04 <rwhitby> lingfish: can't hurt to remove it
Apr 07 04:57:17 <EdLin> Palm not responsible for loss of Pre or fire insurance.
Apr 07 04:57:25 <lingfish> rwhitby: k
Apr 07 04:58:13 <lingfish> rwhitby: bingo, that worked.  How lame
Apr 07 04:58:42 <EdLin> lingfish: sounds like an improvement on what happens if you mess up a Debian repository.
Apr 07 04:59:11 <lingfish> oh, no it didn't.
Apr 07 04:59:12 <lingfish> :(
Apr 07 04:59:30 <EdLin> oh well, or more of the same....
Apr 07 04:59:33 <lingfish> EdLin: yeah, was thinkin the same thing
Apr 07 04:59:44 <lingfish> though I only renamed that dir... didn't rm or move it totally
Apr 07 05:00:29 <lingfish> Removed, no change.
Apr 07 05:00:30 <lingfish> argh.
Apr 07 05:01:25 <EdLin> oh, apparently there *are* no x window system clients yet for the pre. Then again, trying to operate X remotely on a Pre is a bit crazy to begin with. ;-)
Apr 07 05:01:27 <lingfish> How utterly annoying.
Apr 07 05:02:45 <EdLin> lingfish: there's probably some XML data that could be modified to fix this somewhere, ask rwhitby or some other guru... I'm a bit of a newbie myself.
Apr 07 05:03:05 <dtzWill> EdLin: try ssh -Y
Apr 07 05:03:26 <lingfish> I think there's other cruft left behind, that I can't find.
Apr 07 05:04:09 <dtzWill> EdLin: there is a x window client, xterm, and it's in the repository
Apr 07 05:04:20 <EdLin> dtzWill: "/usr/X11R6/bin/xauth not found
Apr 07 05:04:29 <dtzWill> EdLin: but I don't ship the various tools like xauth, xhost, xrdb, etc
Apr 07 05:04:32 <EdLin> dtzWill: I've got that
Apr 07 05:04:56 <EdLin> forgot about the -Y, it's been a while, kept using -X
Apr 07 05:05:09 <dtzWill> EdLin: wait hold on, perhaps I misunderstood. what are you trying to do?
Apr 07 05:05:12 <EdLin> why OpenSSH changed the flag, I don't know.
Apr 07 05:05:27 <EdLin> log in remotely using X. :-)
Apr 07 05:05:36 <dtzWill> EdLin: they didn't. -X is 'normal' and should be the one you default to. -Y says ignore security and trust the remote host
Apr 07 05:05:51 <dtzWill> EdLin: so you want your local system to run x applications and draw them on the pre's server?
Apr 07 05:06:01 <dtzWill> (be it gdm, your window manager, whatever?)
Apr 07 05:06:15 <EdLin> dtzWill: vice versa really, though the other way too would be cool.
Apr 07 05:06:20 <lingfish> ./lib/luna/java/facebook.jar
Apr 07 05:06:22 <lingfish> hmmm
Apr 07 05:06:41 <dtzWill> EdLin: errr you want to... do what now? log into your pre from your computer?
Apr 07 05:06:52 <dtzWill> log into what--an X environment, or make use of luna?
Apr 07 05:06:59 <EdLin> dtzWill: I was going to test doing it X style.
Apr 07 05:07:16 <EdLin> dtzWill: I know the X server can't do Luna, can it?!
Apr 07 05:08:14 <dtzWill> EdLin: no, I'm just trying ot understand what you want  so I can help :)
Apr 07 05:08:21 <EdLin> I'm doing this from OS X, by the way, although that shouldn't make a difference. It's rootless X server is a little flaky though.
Apr 07 05:10:56 <EdLin> keeps saying /usr/X11R6/bin/xauth: not found
Apr 07 05:11:26 <dtzWill> EdLin: to be completely clear you want your palm pre to run X apps and you want to see them on your computer?
Apr 07 05:11:32 <EdLin> yeah
Apr 07 05:11:55 <EdLin> the other way around sounds like fun, but wasn't what I was trying to do really.
Apr 07 05:12:02 <dtzWill> Edlin: on the pre try 'ipkg-opt install xterm'
Apr 07 05:12:13 <dtzWill> i still can't think why you want to do this but okay :D
Apr 07 05:12:21 <dtzWill> EdLin: that'll install xterm, as well as some x libraries
Apr 07 05:12:36 <dtzWill> probably easier/better to ssh into a debian chroot and do that if you want a better x environment
Apr 07 05:12:41 <EdLin> I've got xterm, but I'll try to do it again.
Apr 07 05:12:52 <dtzWill> EdLin: ipkg-opt's xterm is different than the xterm in preware
Apr 07 05:12:52 <EdLin> oh, I've got a Debian chroot...
Apr 07 05:13:46 <dtzWill> EdLin: well i actually have to go but what you're doing isn't something I see any existing preware package helping
Apr 07 05:14:04 <dtzWill> and a number of people here, subject to availability, can help ya ssh into your chroot, etc
Apr 07 05:14:20 <EdLin> I've got a problem, su says it's not suid. wtf?
Apr 07 05:14:38 <dtzWill> the other way works too, you just need to ssh to your pre, set the DISPLAY env var, and ssh -X (or ssh -Y) to your host you want to run your x apps.
Apr 07 05:14:54 <dtzWill> ^^^^^^^^^^^ I did that a lot when testing the x server before I had a staged xterm, etc
Apr 07 05:19:54 <EdLin> maybe pressing control-C during the linux install script wasn't so wise, it botched my su and sudo permissions.
Apr 07 05:20:03 <EdLin> on to novaterm....
Apr 07 05:22:32 <EdLin> hmm, permissions are root:root with normal everything else.
Apr 07 05:22:48 <EdLin> curiouser and curiouser
Apr 07 05:23:04 <EdLin> maybe it's sudoers
Apr 07 05:23:31 <EdLin> no, that's normal too.
Apr 07 05:24:01 <EdLin> and sudo works from novaterm.
Apr 07 05:24:42 <EdLin> and since, if I was typing it in like a dummy on my local OS X system, about the same things would happen, that isn't it either.
Apr 07 05:30:17 <rwhitby> interesting, my secondary GSM Pre is telling me it has yet another update to 1.4.1
Apr 07 05:30:23 <rwhitby> (it's at 1.4.1 already)
Apr 07 05:49:11 <EdLin> rwhitby: maybe you'll get paid apps without a carrier now. One can only hope. ;-)
Apr 07 05:49:57 <rwhitby> EdLin: I already have paid .us and .eu apps.
Apr 07 05:50:19 <EdLin> rwhitby: interesting.
Apr 07 05:50:26 <rwhitby> and a US debit www.simon.com giftaccount with which to purchase .us apps
Apr 07 05:50:42 <rwhitby> just looking for the .eu equivalent now
Apr 07 05:51:20 <EdLin> rwhitby: I figured out what was wrong, no sticky bit on the sudo binary. Apparently killing the optware shell script bootstrap didn't work so well, it wasn't very robust.
Apr 07 05:51:26 <rwhitby> I suspect it's because I doctored the phone and put a different profile on it, and that profile had only ever been used on an earlier version of webOS
Apr 07 05:52:33 <EdLin> it had hung trying to reinstall sudo.
Apr 07 05:52:53 <EdLin> that's what I get for runing deprecated instructions, eh? ;-)
Apr 07 05:55:24 <EdLin> I looked at the script, it needs some sort of clean-up on signals for things to look sane, I have no idea why it hung in the first place though, that could be a optware bug.
Apr 07 06:21:47 <jhojho> oops
Apr 07 06:22:16 <jhojho> just caused my vmware to bsod while trying to update gps on the pre
Apr 07 06:22:20 <jhojho> ouch
Apr 07 06:28:26 <rwhitby> Preware 0.9.35 and Package Manager Service 0.9.45 are now released, including the Saved Package List
Apr 07 06:28:53 <rwhitby> (ipkgservice 0.9.45 has the code to allow a smooth future transition to Preware Alpha)
Apr 07 06:29:12 <rwhitby> anyone here who can do a testing install?
Apr 07 06:31:44 <hucksy> alpha or 0.9.35?
Apr 07 06:32:52 <rwhitby> 0.9.35
Apr 07 06:33:04 <hucksy> yep, sec
Apr 07 06:33:07 <rwhitby> sorry, a public install, not a test install
Apr 07 06:33:45 <rwhitby> I want someone to install the current public preware, then reboot, then add testing feed, then install Preware Alpha
Apr 07 06:35:12 <hucksy> i have already installed the testing feed & preware alphas - do i have to uninstall it both first?
Apr 07 06:39:04 <DaDirtyPanda> sweet just updated
Apr 07 06:41:16 <rwhitby> DaDirtyPanda: all went well? 0.9.35 and 0.9.45 ?
Apr 07 06:42:16 <DaDirtyPanda> still rebooting but all went well installing
Apr 07 06:46:31 <DaDirtyPanda> ok 0.9.35 is working well
Apr 07 06:46:51 <rwhitby> DaDirtyPanda: including saved package list?
Apr 07 06:51:37 <DaDirtyPanda> ummm when i first started it did say something on the bottom.  is that what your talking about.
Apr 07 06:54:33 <rwhitby> yep
Apr 07 06:54:54 <rwhitby> DaDirtyPanda: see http://bit.ly/holy-grail-of-homebrew
Apr 07 06:56:03 <DaDirtyPanda> ok i installed 0.9.35 on my second pre and it says ":wrote saved package list"
Apr 07 07:00:24 <rwhitby> For a complete set of feeds, Preware Alpha updates twice as fast as Preware Classic
Apr 07 07:06:10 <ka6sox> difference between interpreted and compiled.
Apr 07 07:06:53 <tmzt_> are you asking?
Apr 07 07:10:12 <ka6sox> tmzt_, nope...one is java and the other is C
Apr 07 07:14:09 <rwhitby> ka6sox: the C version uses statically allocated buffers for all the string handling too
Apr 07 07:14:22 <ka6sox> that helps too.
Apr 07 07:18:47 <Mercury> rwhitby: When do you expect the C version to hit the main feeds?
Apr 07 07:19:19 <rwhitby> Mercury: when enough people have tested a seamless transition from Preware Classic to Preware Alpha
Apr 07 07:19:54 <rwhitby> there's absolutely no rush in my mind, since you can install Preware Alpha from Preware and even run both in parallel.
Apr 07 07:20:20 <DaDirtyPanda> hmm i can't seem to find Preware Alpha
Apr 07 07:21:21 <Mercury> rwhitby: Point.  So Preware Alpha is feature complete at this point?
Apr 07 07:22:12 <rwhitby> Mercury: well, Preware Classic and Preware Alpha actually share exactly the same front-end code - the only difference is in the service
Apr 07 07:24:28 <Mercury> Ahhh, I see.
Apr 07 07:25:17 <rwhitby> and I believe the two services are API compatible
Apr 07 07:26:00 <rwhitby> but I take a week's holiday on Monday, so it's not going 1.0 until after that
Apr 07 07:27:42 <gollyzila> I have already installed/uninstalled Simple Shutter Sound Off but my camera still makes the sound. Any help?
Apr 07 07:31:25 <DaDirtyPanda> nm i fould it, just a problem with my testing feed.  I installed preware alpha with no errors
Apr 07 07:32:12 <gollyzila> Woah. Does anyone's Pre make a ringing sound when it's on the Touchstone and you put it to Vibrate Mode?
Apr 07 07:32:16 <gollyzila> It's freaky
Apr 07 07:34:09 <gollyzila> I guess everyone's asleep
Apr 07 07:34:14 <gollyzila> Me too then
Apr 07 07:36:37 <DaDirtyPanda> oh wow thats cool
Apr 07 08:08:13 <rwhitby> DaDirtyPanda: what have you found?
Apr 07 08:14:20 <DaDirtyPanda> just the whole being able to install all the homebrew  apps, makes doctoring way faster now
Apr 07 08:15:29 <DaDirtyPanda> 4am here sleep time
Apr 07 08:15:41 <rwhitby> I need to work out how to preload wifi settings via the meta-doctor
Apr 07 08:32:54 * rwhitby bbl
Apr 07 12:47:36 <nt4cats> I just noticed a statement "idontwan2know" made here yesterday afternoon: "Okay...done worrying about battery life. Just bought a couple of Centro batteries and a wall charger on ebay for a grand total of $14"
Apr 07 12:47:48 <nt4cats> Does that mean that Centro batteries work/fit in a Pre?
Apr 07 12:58:10 <en0x> nt4cats: afaik yes
Apr 07 12:58:50 <nt4cats> en0x: interesting, thanks
Apr 07 13:06:09 <tomq> not sure how i got here.. but can i get help deleting theme from preware?  all it does is "spin" on removing.. but I never get the script request to allow removal.
Apr 07 13:27:12 <VincentLaw> I am still LOLing at the performance benchmarks of the iPad vs the 800mhz Pre
Apr 07 13:27:22 <en0x> where r they?
Apr 07 13:27:41 <VincentLaw> Google V8v3:    ipad: 86.3      Pre 800mhz: 95.78
Apr 07 13:27:59 <en0x> the less than better?
Apr 07 13:28:08 <VincentLaw> higher is better
Apr 07 13:28:18 <en0x> oh
Apr 07 13:28:20 <en0x> got link?
Apr 07 13:28:20 <en0x> :)
Apr 07 13:28:40 <VincentLaw> http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2010/04/ipad-review.ars/17  I'm not sure what version of WebOS they used FYI
Apr 07 13:28:46 <VincentLaw> but it definitely wasn't an 800mhz pre :p
Apr 07 13:28:54 <en0x> :D
Apr 07 13:29:11 <VincentLaw> my results for the pre were 5 runs averaged together
Apr 07 13:29:21 <VincentLaw> lowest score was 86.8, highest was 104
Apr 07 13:29:21 <en0x> nice
Apr 07 13:29:30 <en0x> i'm running 720Mhz
Apr 07 13:29:44 <VincentLaw> might as well run 800 :p
Apr 07 13:29:49 <VincentLaw> if you're gonna fry it fry it fast :p
Apr 07 13:30:51 <en0x> i'm happy with 720Mhz
Apr 07 13:31:04 <en0x> I had 800 and i don't see a huge difference between 720 and 800
Apr 07 13:31:20 <VincentLaw> 800 > 720. that's the difference!
Apr 07 13:31:21 <VincentLaw> :p
Apr 07 13:32:11 <en0x> hehe
Apr 07 13:32:16 <en0x> nah i'm cool
Apr 07 13:32:16 <en0x> ;]
Apr 07 13:32:46 <en0x> oh
Apr 07 13:32:57 <en0x> i will be gettin beta of NaN Player
Apr 07 13:33:00 <en0x> yeyeyeyeye
Apr 07 13:38:08 <sampson> fucking 800mhz ipk!!
Apr 07 13:38:11 <sampson> it won't install
Apr 07 13:38:42 <en0x> mine 720Mhz installed with an error that it cannot remout /
Apr 07 13:38:50 <en0x> s/remout/remount/
Apr 07 13:38:51 <infobot> en0x meant: mine 720Mhz installed with an error that it cannot remount /
Apr 07 13:39:20 <sampson> mine doesn't even get that far
Apr 07 13:39:26 <en0x> ;D
Apr 07 13:39:29 <en0x> use the .sh
Apr 07 13:40:34 <en0x> i can't wait for the character counter patch :(
Apr 07 13:45:25 <sampson> i keep getting ERROR Clearing state_want and state_flag for pkg=com.blah An error occurred, return value: 4. Collected errors: Cannot find package blah blah
Apr 07 13:45:30 <sampson> maybe if i name it something shorter
Apr 07 13:46:16 <sampson> negative
Apr 07 13:48:28 <sampson> oh i bet i know what it is
Apr 07 13:49:54 <en0x> heh
Apr 07 13:50:02 <sampson> PEBKAC
Apr 07 13:50:06 <en0x> the app people of walmart saves thumbnails on /media/internal
Apr 07 13:50:18 <en0x> no wonder how I got some shitty photos in my photo app
Apr 07 13:50:40 <sampson> that app is a slow pile of poo
Apr 07 13:50:42 <en0x> it should remove it right after u swipe it up
Apr 07 13:50:48 <en0x> same thing with comics
Apr 07 13:50:59 <en0x> it saves thumbnails on media/internal and never removes it
Apr 07 13:51:11 <en0x> it should at least save it in hidden folder
Apr 07 13:51:19 <en0x>  /media/internal/.comics for example
Apr 07 13:51:24 <en0x> to photo app won't index it
Apr 07 13:51:28 <en0x> s/to/so/
Apr 07 13:51:28 <infobot> en0x meant: so photo app won't index it
Apr 07 13:51:32 <VincentLaw> there's a reason they started doing that
Apr 07 13:51:35 <VincentLaw> fyi
Apr 07 13:51:50 <VincentLaw> in 1.4.x, caching web objects changed
Apr 07 13:52:00 <sampson> woo 800mhz
Apr 07 13:52:02 <VincentLaw> it used to be, once an image loaded, it stayed cached in the app for a long time
Apr 07 13:52:10 <VincentLaw> now it refreshes on every scene change
Apr 07 13:52:36 <en0x> VincentLaw: yes but it should save it to a hidden folder
Apr 07 13:52:50 <VincentLaw> I agree there
Apr 07 13:53:02 <en0x> or remove it after u close the app
Apr 07 13:53:34 <VincentLaw> is rwhitby still awake?
Apr 07 13:53:56 <VincentLaw> !seen rwhitby
Apr 07 14:00:41 <nt4cats> ~seen rwhitby
Apr 07 14:00:43 <infobot> rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals (5h 9m 38s) #oe (5h 9m 38s) #meego (5h 9m 38s) #nslu2-linux (5h 9m 38s), last said: 'I need to work out how to preload wifi settings via the meta-doctor'.
Apr 07 14:01:18 <en0x> hmm this MHS is nice
Apr 07 14:02:31 <VincentLaw> figures, it was ~ not !
Apr 07 14:05:36 <nt4cats> ~smack VincentLaw
Apr 07 14:05:38 * infobot smacks VincentLaw upside the head.
Apr 07 14:11:18 <cooknn> Anybody here familiar with freetetherd?
Apr 07 14:11:37 <en0x> freetetherd is a service
Apr 07 14:12:41 <cooknn> Yes. Thanks. I'm trying to install from the commandline and getting "cannot find package us.ryanhope.freetetherd".
Apr 07 14:12:57 <DarkSpecter> hi
Apr 07 14:13:01 <cooknn> Thinking that maybe there is a path hard coded into the ipk?
Apr 07 14:13:03 <VincentLaw> isn't freetetherd essentially broken now anyway?
Apr 07 14:13:30 <cooknn> Wasn't aware of that Vincent
Apr 07 14:15:54 <DarkSpecter> anyone familiar with the log output of the updater app ?
Apr 07 14:17:53 <en0x> VincentLaw: i use freetetherd for mhs :P
Apr 07 14:18:13 <VincentLaw> I thought that broke too lol
Apr 07 14:18:21 <VincentLaw> either way, tethering for me has been a terrible crapshoot
Apr 07 14:18:30 <VincentLaw> even the new mytether which is supposed to work rather well, rarely does
Apr 07 14:18:33 <en0x> freetetherd for turning ip forwarding
Apr 07 14:18:34 <greenskeleton> Does anybody have advice for a Pre running 1.4 that I can't get to upgrade to 1.4.1.1? The update screen never gets past "Checking for updates...". Otherwise the phone seems to run fine.
Apr 07 14:18:35 <en0x> adn thats all
Apr 07 14:18:50 <dthought> greenskeleton: doctor?
Apr 07 14:19:22 <DarkSpecter> greenskeleton: check what pal-log says
Apr 07 14:20:29 <DarkSpecter> greenskeleton: i have a similar problem, just that my updater insists that with 1.4 my pre is up to date
Apr 07 14:20:33 <greenskeleton> Another bit of info, upon doing the OTA update to 1.4, my phone stopped booting and I had to doctor it
Apr 07 14:20:54 <greenskeleton> DarkSpecter: mine doesn't even say that
Apr 07 14:21:09 <DarkSpecter> greenskeleton: got the sdk installed ?
Apr 07 14:21:47 <greenskeleton> Not on this computer, but I can. What's this pal-log? I assume I would need to SSH into the phone for that
Apr 07 14:22:07 <DarkSpecter> greenskeleton: no
Apr 07 14:22:07 <VincentLaw> palm-log I imagine he meant
Apr 07 14:22:41 <DarkSpecter> you just need to connect your pre with usb and run palm-log in a terminal
Apr 07 14:22:52 <greenskeleton> I'll give that a shot
Apr 07 14:23:10 <DarkSpecter> palm-log -f com.palm.app.updater
Apr 07 14:23:21 <DarkSpecter> and then run the updater on your pre
Apr 07 14:23:49 <DarkSpecter> might give you a pointer what is going wrong
Apr 07 14:24:40 <DarkSpecter> and you probably need to change the loglevel first, thats also done with palm-log
Apr 07 14:26:00 <DarkSpecter> need to go afk, bbl
Apr 07 14:29:09 <sbromwich> palm-webos-device log # uname -a
Apr 07 14:29:09 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Mar 17 23:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 14:29:09 <sbromwich> palm-webos-device log #
Apr 07 14:29:20 <sbromwich> amazing how much one can achieve with a mild concussion and a day off work.
Apr 07 14:29:36 <sbromwich> still not RT but it *is* pre-empt
Apr 07 14:30:19 <sbromwich> thanks to all the generous people for walking me through the process to get it going :-)
Apr 07 14:30:19 <zsoc_wirc> sbromwich: your determination is inspiring btw
Apr 07 14:30:45 <sbromwich> I think "obsessiveness" might be the word you're looking for ;-)
Apr 07 14:31:41 <sbromwich> also I disabled a load of the debug code in the kernel as well
Apr 07 14:31:52 <sbromwich> is anyone aware of any benchmarking app for the pre?
Apr 07 14:32:22 <sbromwich> it is after all very well saying it feels faster but numbers tell the real story
Apr 07 14:36:14 <jhojho> unixbench?
Apr 07 14:36:22 <jhojho> iometer
Apr 07 14:36:41 <jhojho> AND you could run the distributed.net client as a test
Apr 07 14:36:47 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 07 14:36:59 <jhojho> you have to download a static linked version but it does work.
Apr 07 14:37:06 <sbromwich> I was wondering if there was anything pre specific... a la glxgears sort of thing
Apr 07 14:37:18 <sbromwich> except plain 2d instead of GL
Apr 07 14:38:01 <jhojho> well what do you want to benchmark? graphics, io, cpu?
Apr 07 14:38:37 <sbromwich> as much as possible... I'd like to see if there's any areas in particular that are running notably faster without debug code
Apr 07 14:43:57 <sbromwich> running nbench now...
Apr 07 14:44:06 <sbromwich> TEST                : Iterations/sec.  : Old Index   : New Index
Apr 07 14:44:06 <sbromwich>                     :                  : Pentium 90* : AMD K6/233*
Apr 07 14:44:06 <sbromwich> --------------------:------------------:-------------:------------
Apr 07 14:44:06 <sbromwich> NUMERIC SORT        :           319.8  :       8.20  :       2.69
Apr 07 14:44:11 <sbromwich> *chortle*
Apr 07 14:44:38 <sbromwich> BITFIELD            :      1.1172e+08  :      19.16  :       4.00
Apr 07 14:44:39 <sbromwich> !
Apr 07 14:45:10 <VincentLaw> it broke the speed of light
Apr 07 14:45:12 <VincentLaw> :p
Apr 07 14:45:30 <sbromwich> so it would appear
Apr 07 14:45:39 <sbromwich> some of these numbers are looking outrageously high
Apr 07 14:45:45 <sbromwich> FOURIER             :          327.19  :       0.37  :       0.21
Apr 07 14:46:06 <sbromwich> *how* many orders of magnitude faster than a P90?!
Apr 07 14:46:23 <sbromwich> although:
Apr 07 14:46:24 <sbromwich> ASSIGNMENT          :          5.1121  :      19.45  :       5.05
Apr 07 14:46:36 <nt4cats> sbromwich: bogomips is the only benchmark I believe
Apr 07 14:46:48 <sbromwich> bogomips is bogus, it's just a timing loop
Apr 07 14:47:13 <nt4cats> sbromwich: bogomips is gospel
Apr 07 14:47:21 <sbromwich> not according to linus
Apr 07 14:47:44 <nt4cats> sbromwich: apparently you haven't seen me troll people on this channel frequently enough
Apr 07 14:47:51 <en0x> linus should meet with theo ;d
Apr 07 14:47:52 * nt4cats adds sbromwich to his catalog of victims
Apr 07 14:47:57 <sbromwich> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/BogoMips/bogo-faq.html
Apr 07 14:48:08 <sbromwich> apparently not
Apr 07 14:48:33 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: <3
Apr 07 14:49:10 <nt4cats> sbromwich: I love the fact that it starts with "bogo" and people still argue about its worth
Apr 07 14:49:13 <VincentLaw> btw sbromwich: my server running an intel C2D E8400 got:
Apr 07 14:49:16 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 07 14:49:22 <VincentLaw> NUMERIC SORT        :            1450  :      37.19  :      12.21
Apr 07 14:49:50 <sbromwich> nt4cats: I once hand patched my kernel to give me (I think) 32768 bogomips.
Apr 07 14:49:59 <sbromwich> my penis was certainly extended that day.
Apr 07 14:50:00 <nt4cats> sbromwich: .. although (from the link you sent me) I do pretty much agree with "Of course [bogomips are] completely wrong, unreliable, ill-founded, and utterly useless, but all benchmarks suffer from this same problem. So why not use it?"
Apr 07 14:50:25 <VincentLaw> also, my bitfield:
Apr 07 14:50:30 <VincentLaw> BITFIELD            :      6.0151e+08  :     103.18  :      21.55
Apr 07 14:50:38 <VincentLaw> so maybe the pre's isn't that bad off :p
Apr 07 14:51:27 <zsoc_wirc> sbromwich: <3
Apr 07 14:51:39 <zsoc_wirc> I can't upvote comments on irc, so I just give hearts.
Apr 07 14:52:04 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 07 14:52:23 * nt4cats always thought that was an overhead view of a chesty woman with a pointy butt
Apr 07 14:52:25 <sbromwich> just waiting for the system to settle now and I'll try with stock kernel
Apr 07 14:52:35 <greenskeleton> http://webos.pastebin.com/XznrnLES -- Does this look like Palm's server is feeding me junk data?
Apr 07 14:52:54 <greenskeleton> that's a log of the updating app
Apr 07 14:56:04 <sbromwich> I wonder if my "Test kernel with most debugging disabled" thread will get voted "1 - terrible".
Apr 07 14:56:18 <sbromwich> I was most amused to see a post full of useful hacking info get marked "terrible"
Apr 07 14:56:39 <sbromwich> do the users really not understand that webos development is not for users to comprehend but just do as they're told?
Apr 07 14:56:40 <zsoc_wirc> P|C is 95% useless to developers.
Apr 07 14:56:52 <sbromwich> I'm starting to find that myself
Apr 07 14:57:14 <sbromwich> also the people who request an app then post a bump message 2 hours later
Apr 07 14:57:25 <zsoc_wirc> there are some genuinely nice and useful users.. but not many.
Apr 07 14:57:45 <sbromwich> if you can't put in sweat equity yourself donate money, don't just keep bumping threads
Apr 07 14:57:46 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 07 14:58:27 <zsoc_wirc> people do donate tho
Apr 07 14:58:57 <sbromwich> and I'm sure they're the ones who get the apps they request written before any of the others
Apr 07 14:59:16 <sbromwich> nbench shows a marginal performance increase but I suspect it is within the margin of error
Apr 07 14:59:23 <zsoc_wirc> well, they encourage app development for projects they like.
Apr 07 14:59:52 <sbromwich> exactly
Apr 07 15:00:06 <sbromwich> golden rule in full effect, I guess
Apr 07 15:04:38 <sbromwich> good grief, I actually got a sane reply
Apr 07 15:04:46 <sbromwich> miracles never cease
Apr 07 15:06:06 <zsoc_wirc> haha
Apr 07 15:06:13 <zsoc_wirc> where is the thread?
Apr 07 15:06:55 <sbromwich> http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/240589-test-kernel-most-debugging-disabled.html
Apr 07 15:07:23 <sbromwich> fule bench results are in there, best cut and pasted to something with a fixed width font though
Apr 07 15:07:32 <sbromwich> ^fule^full
Apr 07 15:08:21 <VincentLaw> sbromwich: use the [code] tag around that
Apr 07 15:08:49 <sbromwich> ah, thanks
Apr 07 15:09:06 <sbromwich> not really needed on usenet so I habitually just paste it straight in ;-)
Apr 07 15:10:21 <sbromwich> also, people quoting entire multi-para quotes just to say "thanks for the info!"
Apr 07 15:10:27 <sbromwich> isn't there a button for that already?
Apr 07 15:10:29 <sbromwich> </bitter>
Apr 07 15:10:36 <VincentLaw> also, those numbers don't really seem too impressive, sadly
Apr 07 15:10:58 <sbromwich> they're not too brilliant
Apr 07 15:11:07 <VincentLaw> you should post a 800mhz kernel run as well
Apr 07 15:11:15 <sbromwich> this is just with debugging stuff like oprofile disabled so I wasn't expecting a huge benefit
Apr 07 15:11:24 <sbromwich> that was with an 800MHz kernel
Apr 07 15:11:34 <VincentLaw> ah. then without! :p
Apr 07 15:11:45 <sbromwich> that sounds... painful ;-)
Apr 07 15:16:38 <sbromwich> lol
Apr 07 15:34:47 <MerlinMM> Sad onwer of a Dr'ed Pre from before the "Saved Package List".  I have my list of patches. "/media/internal/.webos-internals.packages.patches"  Anyone know a way to recover them?
Apr 07 15:36:25 <zsoc_wirc> egaudet would know
Apr 07 15:38:20 <MerlinMM> Eric is 12 hrs idle.  I'm guessing not at his computer.
Apr 07 15:50:37 <sbromwich> is there a reason so much QoS stuff is enabled in the kernel and yet unused, does anyone know?
Apr 07 15:51:15 <sbromwich> since the radios are effectively used as bandwidth limiters anyway, it seems a little redundant
Apr 07 15:53:43 <dthought> perhaps with VoIP in mind?
Apr 07 15:54:57 <MerlinMM> How does Voice get carried from Pre in 3G?  I'd assumed over VoIP on the data connection so QoS wouldbe key.  No?
Apr 07 15:56:24 <sbromwich> tc -s qdisc shows it's completely unused
Apr 07 15:56:36 <zsoc_wirc> there is no voip afaik
Apr 07 15:56:52 <sbromwich> I would expect voice to be handled through some sort of dma buffer
Apr 07 15:57:13 <sbromwich> or perhaps some even stranger method, having worked with some oddball TI chips in the past
Apr 07 15:59:05 <dthought> MerlinMM: voice is carried over the voice channel of 3G ...
Apr 07 15:59:09 <dthought> at least for UMTS
Apr 07 16:07:28 <sbromwich> loot-: there is an option in the kernel config CONFIG_USB_MUSB_OTG to switch between host and gadget modem which might help your issues, the commentary in there suggests it's not fully functional though
Apr 07 16:09:11 <MerlinMM> Dthought: thanks.
Apr 07 16:09:21 <MerlinMM> Maybe QoS for SprintTV?
Apr 07 16:09:39 <sbromwich> that'd make sense
Apr 07 16:09:48 <sbromwich> not a huge amount of use to me up in canada ;-)
Apr 07 16:10:00 <sbromwich> I'm disabling it anyway to save memory
Apr 07 16:15:07 <sbromwich> arch/arm/mach-omap3pe/board-sirloin-3430-pm.c:352: error: implicit declaration of function 'omap3_wakeup_sources_clear'
Apr 07 16:15:09 <sbromwich> sod.
Apr 07 16:17:48 <sbromwich> ah-hah
Apr 07 16:17:54 <sbromwich> #ifdef CONFIG_FASTPATH
Apr 07 16:17:54 <sbromwich> int omap3_wakeup_sources_get(void);
Apr 07 16:17:54 <sbromwich> void omap3_wakeup_sources_clear(void);
Apr 07 16:17:54 <sbromwich> #endif
Apr 07 16:18:09 <sbromwich> that omap3_wakeup_sources_clear isn't protected by a #ifdef
Apr 07 16:19:19 <sbromwich> there we go
Apr 07 16:19:41 <sbromwich> of course whether it will now wake up properly is a matter for future interest
Apr 07 16:22:30 <zsoc_wirc> sbromwich: I believe 'geist' will take bugreports if you find something
Apr 07 16:23:14 <sbromwich> I think this might possibly be more of a "doctor doctor it hurts when I poke myself in the eye what should I do" situation
Apr 07 16:23:37 <zsoc_wirc> lots of those in kernel work ;)
Apr 07 16:23:43 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 07 16:26:23 <sbromwich> good grief... people really are quite eager to pay for an app that does nothing but set cpufreq settings
Apr 07 16:26:29 * sbromwich shakes his head
Apr 07 16:26:38 <sbromwich> sturgeon's law applies once more, I suppose.
Apr 07 16:27:21 <zsoc_wirc> sbromwich: I understand that
Apr 07 16:27:32 <zsoc_wirc> people want 800mhz, but they don't want it to be difficukt
Apr 07 16:27:36 <zsoc_wirc> it makes sense to me
Apr 07 16:28:01 <sbromwich> "spoonfeeding", we used to call it back in the day
Apr 07 16:28:40 <zsoc_wirc> this is different, they aren't stupid developers or homebrew hackers. they are just cell phone users who found a forum
Apr 07 16:29:07 <sbromwich> and, to continue my bitter amusement, the numpties that complain the conservative settings I post are causing flicker and give up instead of tuning as I said
Apr 07 16:29:25 <sbromwich> I wouldn't mind so much if they weren't posting in a forum explicitly listed for developers and hackers
Apr 07 16:29:45 <sbromwich> oh for the days before the never ending september, how I miss them.
Apr 07 16:35:21 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO: thanks for your help, I now have booting kernels :-)
Apr 07 16:35:28 <sbromwich> still working on getting -rt going
Apr 07 16:35:42 <uNiXpSyChO> sbromwich: people are willing to pay for invisible developers too
Apr 07 16:35:53 <uNiXpSyChO> 800Mhz kernels ?
Apr 07 16:36:16 <sbromwich> but of course
Apr 07 16:36:39 <sbromwich> working on stripping out as much as I can to see how small I can get it
Apr 07 16:36:45 <sbromwich> no debug, ipsec, qos, etc
Apr 07 16:37:02 <uNiXpSyChO> qos is needed by the wifi driver
Apr 07 16:37:21 <zsoc_wirc> ah, and there we have the obvious answer lol
Apr 07 16:37:23 <uNiXpSyChO> my beta kernels are stripped to death of debugging and such
Apr 07 16:37:30 <sbromwich> really?
Apr 07 16:37:33 <sbromwich> tc -s qdisc showed nada
Apr 07 16:37:41 <sbromwich> what's flonking with qos?
Apr 07 16:38:03 <uNiXpSyChO> yep...  the wifi module wants to see those symbols in the kernel structure... whether it uses it or not is beyond me.
Apr 07 16:38:17 <sbromwich> um
Apr 07 16:38:18 <sbromwich> oops ;-)
Apr 07 16:38:41 <sbromwich> *just* the qos framework or is it looking for specific drivers?
Apr 07 16:39:02 <uNiXpSyChO> the wifi driver is looking for the framework.  i dont think its using it.
Apr 07 16:39:24 <sbromwich> weird
Apr 07 16:39:31 <sbromwich> ah well, I'll boot it up just to bench it
Apr 07 16:39:56 <uNiXpSyChO> hmm.  now you got me thinking.  i only tried using the stock kernel build when removing qos.  i think i'll try with my barebones beta kernel and see.
Apr 07 16:40:10 <MerlinMM> Whover sells that app better have a good lawyer to handle the heat when/if people's phones star turning into paperweights.
Apr 07 16:40:47 <MerlinMM> Sorry. "that app" - app to set freq to 800 MHz
Apr 07 16:40:51 <uNiXpSyChO> if the app has the GPL disclaimer on the front then the user is SOL
Apr 07 16:41:47 <uNiXpSyChO> since i only have 1 Pre i think i'll switch to another phone to try a QoS-less kernel.  now i'm curios.
Apr 07 16:41:55 <sbromwich> my disclaimer is "if the phone breaks you get to keep both pieces"
Apr 07 16:41:56 <MerlinMM> Unixpsycho: app better make sure the user is forced to read full disclaimer and acknowledge it before making a change.
Apr 07 16:42:18 <sbromwich> I'm in the fortunate position that if mine goes pop I just tell voice services guy to go get me another
Apr 07 16:42:40 <MerlinMM> sbromwich: Nice!
Apr 07 16:42:54 <uNiXpSyChO>  MerlinMM: maybe... i know on my kernel packages the disclaimer is in the description, also on my website.  maybe the app owner should put it in as well.
Apr 07 16:43:08 <sbromwich> haven't managed to brick it yet but many, many battery pulls have been done
Apr 07 16:43:56 <sbromwich> in fact checking it my "app" forces the user to accept responsibility
Apr 07 16:43:58 <uNiXpSyChO> when creating the 800mhz patch i had it clocked really high (droid level high) and it didnt brick... it hnug after a while but still kept working after a battery pull.
Apr 07 16:44:01 <sbromwich> http://www.fop.ns.ca/pre/tnb.pl
Apr 07 16:44:35 <zsoc_wirc> uNiXpSyChO: what is 'droid level'?
Apr 07 16:44:39 <TheInvsbleMan> So I just got my replacement Pre. It is currently syncing all my stuff. I'd like to drop the unthrottle download manager patch on there really quick so as to speed up the syncing process. Would this be ok to do, or would the required reboots to do that mess up the syncing?
Apr 07 16:44:42 <MerlinMM> unixpsycho: I don't think the speed can kill it directly just the heat so...
Apr 07 16:44:53 <uNiXpSyChO> like 800Mhz+.
Apr 07 16:45:03 <sbromwich> TheInvsbleMan: why not use it as an excuse to go down the pub for a pint?
Apr 07 16:45:22 <TheInvsbleMan> Haha, that would be nice if I were 21
Apr 07 16:45:27 <zsoc_wirc> I've been using 800mhz for weeks
Apr 07 16:45:29 <uNiXpSyChO> MerlinMM: true... but the voltages will kill it if out of spec for the cpu.
Apr 07 16:46:11 <sbromwich> fortunately I grew up in the UK and have been drinking down the pub since I was 14 :-)
Apr 07 16:46:20 <dthought> is there an 800MHz patch for 1.4.1 ?
Apr 07 16:46:26 <uNiXpSyChO> yes
Apr 07 16:46:37 <TheInvsbleMan> I'll be dropping 800Mhz on my newly replaced Pre once it is up and running. I was running it before the whole screen crack happened and it was amazing!
Apr 07 16:46:39 <MerlinMM> unixpsycho: naturally.  I assume we're not putting any kernels on there that run the cpu at a non-spec freq.
Apr 07 16:47:08 <zsoc_wirc> sure we are
Apr 07 16:47:15 <dthought> i'd be interessted in an patch that does 500MHz in "normal use", but patches the governor inside lunasysmgr to boost up to 800MHz when needed
Apr 07 16:47:28 <uNiXpSyChO> MerlinMM: yep.  allis in spec.  but of course TI doesnt reommend for this model CPU.  that's what the OMAP3440 is for :)
Apr 07 16:47:29 <sbromwich> tnb.pl will do that dthought
Apr 07 16:47:40 <sbromwich> so long as you have a kernel loaded with userspace governor
Apr 07 16:47:48 <TheInvsbleMan> dthought: Isn't that scaling? We have that...
Apr 07 16:48:06 <sbromwich> default is userspace which is a little... random in its implementation
Apr 07 16:48:16 <sbromwich> I think it's twinned with the radio power levels to some extent
Apr 07 16:48:25 <sbromwich> I've got better battery life with ondemand
Apr 07 16:48:44 <TheInvsbleMan> I see. I have a 2600MaH so I'm not too concerned about battery :)
Apr 07 16:49:01 <sbromwich> how long do you get between charges?
Apr 07 16:49:02 <TheInvsbleMan> Though the 800Mhz works just fine for me anyways. So I'm not concerned in the first place
Apr 07 16:49:10 <TheInvsbleMan> with 800Mhz?
Apr 07 16:49:17 <sbromwich> yeah, or in general
Apr 07 16:49:21 <dthought> yeah, ondemand scaling would be essentially the same...
Apr 07 16:49:31 <sbromwich> I've got mine up to 18 hours or so with my usage patterns
Apr 07 16:49:49 <sbromwich> and fixing a bunch of what I consider bugs/unnecessary overhead
Apr 07 16:49:52 <TheInvsbleMan> I have never timed it but I charge my phone every night. I wake up at 8am and use it without needing a charge througout the day until midnight or later
Apr 07 16:50:02 <dthought> (one could even put down the "normal" frequency a little bit and test...)
Apr 07 16:50:31 <sbromwich> well, I forgot to put mine on charge one night and, if I remember the numbers right, in 8 hours the battery went from 96% to 89%
Apr 07 16:50:44 <dthought> in the palm-developer forum i learnt that the governor is set to userspace in stock-pre as LunaSysMgr handles scaling... 500MHz normal use, 600MHz when the system needs it
Apr 07 16:50:49 <sbromwich> how "real" that is is a matter for a multimeter to measure, though ;-)
Apr 07 16:51:23 <TheInvsbleMan> smbromwich: Yea the Pre will last forever with this 2600 while it is idling
Apr 07 16:51:47 <sbromwich> yeah, mine idles at 125MHz quite happily
Apr 07 16:52:13 <sbromwich> I have a suspicion that I might have spotted a fix for the "my pre crashes at 125MHz but is fine at 250" issue too
Apr 07 16:52:28 <TheInvsbleMan> Erm does anyone remember AI NOS? I remember having it on an old Asus A8N-SLI Delux motherboard. I know it kind of intellginetly overclocked the CPU when necessary. Is something like this possible on the Pre? (Just trying to throw some ideas out there)
Apr 07 16:52:51 <sbromwich> that's what ondemand does
Apr 07 16:53:06 <TheInvsbleMan> Ahh ok
Apr 07 16:53:16 <sbromwich> up_threshold and optionally powersave_bias should be tweaked for your workload though
Apr 07 16:53:23 <TheInvsbleMan> Wait people are clocking their Pre's to 125 and 250? why?
Apr 07 16:53:34 <TheInvsbleMan> battery saving?
Apr 07 16:53:37 <sbromwich> ondemand clocks down when idle to save battery
Apr 07 16:53:44 <TheInvsbleMan> gotcha
Apr 07 16:54:38 <uNiXpSyChO> it doesnt save too much battery tho
Apr 07 16:54:51 <TheInvsbleMan> heh... I still have that machine with that motherboard. It used to be top of the line :) It's now a half-baked hackintosh sitting in my closet. :-/
Apr 07 16:54:57 <zsoc_wirc> I remember when my friend got a 400mhz PII. fastest thing I've ever seen.
Apr 07 16:55:00 <sbromwich> so looking at my system with ondemand currently it's got 800MHz at 18180 and 125000 at 441838
Apr 07 16:55:15 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO: that's because the system has too many wakeups per second by default IME
Apr 07 16:55:55 <uNiXpSyChO> yeah...  defeats the purpose.  also the power domains can be tweaked a little.
Apr 07 16:56:04 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 07 16:56:14 <sbromwich> killing the syslogs was the biggest one I found
Apr 07 16:56:39 <sbromwich> mounting /var mode=ordered and /var/log mode=writeback helped a bit too, but that was more for data corruption prevention reasons
Apr 07 16:56:42 <TheInvsbleMan> So anyways... back to my original question. Did anyone have an answer? On a fresh Pre will patching and rebooting while it is doing the intial sync on my accounts corrupt anything/mess anything up?
Apr 07 16:56:57 <zsoc_wirc> no go ahead
Apr 07 16:57:03 <zsoc_wirc> jacques: hiyooo
Apr 07 16:57:08 <sbromwich> if it were me I'd let it do its thing and then mod it after
Apr 07 16:57:18 <TheInvsbleMan> all right cool. these 3D games are sooo slow to download without the unthrottle patch
Apr 07 16:57:24 <jacques> hmm, webchat no longer takes auth credentials
Apr 07 16:57:30 <jacques> howdy zsoc_wirc
Apr 07 16:58:10 <zsoc_wirc> TheInvsbleMan: on wifi and 1.4.1.1 I get good speeds without it
Apr 07 16:58:40 <TheInvsbleMan> This fresh Pre came with 1.4 Should I update it to 1.4.1.1 or wait for the syncing to finish?
Apr 07 16:59:15 * sbromwich hands TheInvsbleMan a deck of cards to play patience with
Apr 07 16:59:23 <zsoc_wirc> if it's verizon there is no 1.4.1
Apr 07 16:59:30 <TheInvsbleMan> It's Sprint
Apr 07 16:59:55 <jacques> anyone here going to pal dev days ?
Apr 07 17:00:02 <zsoc_wirc> the order you do official palm stuff isn't terribly important. but it doesn't hurt to ask
Apr 07 17:00:03 <TheInvsbleMan> Refurb via Asurion. Just came an hour or so agi
Apr 07 17:00:04 <jacques> s/pal/palm/
Apr 07 17:00:04 <infobot> jacques meant: anyone here going to palm dev days ?
Apr 07 17:00:10 <zsoc_wirc> jacques: not until they have an eastcoast one
Apr 07 17:00:30 <jacques> zsoc_wirc: understandable
Apr 07 17:00:33 <zsoc_wirc> I meant it doesn't hurt to wait, heh
Apr 07 17:00:42 <TheInvsbleMan> Yea, I figure I'll wait
Apr 07 17:01:03 <TheInvsbleMan> I have class at 3:30 so I was trying to rush a bit
Apr 07 17:02:02 <TheInvsbleMan> I have gotten too fast at typing the Konami Code on the Pre's keyboard for my own good
Apr 07 17:02:04 <en0x> i would wait for it to finish syncing
Apr 07 17:02:16 <en0x> i dont use konami code TheInvsbleMan
Apr 07 17:02:16 <sbromwich> oooh, today's kernel compile #2 is down to lib/
Apr 07 17:02:34 <sbromwich> it's like compiling the kernel on a DX/2 66 back in the day :-|
Apr 07 17:03:11 <TheInvsbleMan> en0x: You use a meta-doc?
Apr 07 17:03:40 <Rick_work> TheInvsbleMan you do know you can use webos20090606 instead, which is much easier to type
Apr 07 17:03:42 <en0x> TheInvsbleMan: i use webos20090606
Apr 07 17:03:42 <en0x> :D
Apr 07 17:04:02 <zsoc_wirc> Rick_work: g'day rick :)
Apr 07 17:04:03 <TheInvsbleMan> ahhh gotcha, yea I knew about that as well.
Apr 07 17:04:05 <jacques> Rick_work: are you going to the palm dev days?
Apr 07 17:04:10 <Rick_work> yes.
Apr 07 17:04:22 <jacques> cool. with luck I will see you there/
Apr 07 17:04:26 <Rick_work> arrive Thursday before noon.  Leaving Monday afternoon.
Apr 07 17:04:37 <Rick_work> Sunday Roy and I are planning on touristing in SF.
Apr 07 17:05:16 <jacques> unfortunately (if I can swing this at all) I would need to fly out on Sun
Apr 07 17:05:30 <Rick_work> oh well.
Apr 07 17:05:40 * TheInvsbleMan still laughs every time I see http://www.palm.com/robots.txt
Apr 07 17:05:41 <jacques> I am going to the CELF embedded linux conference in SF, and trying to stay for the palm event
Apr 07 17:06:02 <Rick_work> TheInvsbleMan you should have seen it before we talked them into fixing it.
Apr 07 17:06:24 <TheInvsbleMan> lol what was it?
Apr 07 17:06:53 <Rick_work> it had a huge stack of allows instead of the disallow.
Apr 07 17:07:04 <Rick_work> I knowyou're talking about the vampire/neck thing, but still
Apr 07 17:07:09 <jacques> white instead of black
Apr 07 17:07:19 <jacques> whitelist I mean
Apr 07 17:07:28 <Rick_work> and it didn't work.
Apr 07 17:07:29 <ed_> hello
Apr 07 17:07:36 <TheInvsbleMan> ahh haha I see. I was simply talking about the vampire joke
Apr 07 17:07:44 <Rick_work> developer.palm.com/robots.txt is a mess, but it finally works
Apr 07 17:07:50 <sbromwich>   Image arch/arm/boot/uImage is ready
Apr 07 17:07:52 <sbromwich> ftw.
Apr 07 17:08:05 <zsoc_wirc> heh
Apr 07 17:09:38 <ed_> I'm trying to installing preware on my palm pre.  it seems like preware just sets in loading package information palm-catalog.  Is there something wrong
Apr 07 17:10:00 <jacques> ed_: how long have you waited? palm-catalog takes a long time
Apr 07 17:10:06 <jacques> which is why I disable that feed
Apr 07 17:10:16 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Mar 17 23:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 17:10:19 <sbromwich> yay!
Apr 07 17:10:20 <ed_> several min
Apr 07 17:10:42 <jacques> sbromwich: what customizations did you make?
Apr 07 17:10:42 <ed_> more than several like 5 to 10 min
Apr 07 17:10:53 <sbromwich> hang on... 17 mar?
Apr 07 17:10:54 <jacques> ed_: that does seem longer than I remember
Apr 07 17:11:02 <sbromwich> removed a lot of debugging code
Apr 07 17:11:19 <jacques> sbromwich: to increase speed?
Apr 07 17:11:26 <sbromwich> yeah
Apr 07 17:11:32 <jacques> sbromwich: nice :-)
Apr 07 17:11:33 <sbromwich> ultimately I'm aiming to get the -rt patches on
Apr 07 17:11:49 <ed_> I want to install a virtual keyboard on my pre.  Palm should have made it with one in the first place.
Apr 07 17:12:04 <Rick_work> install it from preware.
Apr 07 17:12:20 <jacques> ed_: you could try disabling the palm-catalog feed for now
Apr 07 17:12:30 <uNiXpSyChO> sbromwich: removing qos resulted in a rebooting kernel :)
Apr 07 17:12:32 <ed_> can I stop it and delete to app off the phone and restart?
Apr 07 17:12:55 <Rick_work> yep
Apr 07 17:13:02 <sbromwich> ah.
Apr 07 17:13:12 <jacques> ed_: in the preware app menu under manage feeds
Apr 07 17:13:12 <sbromwich> that would explain it, thanks uNiXpSyChO
Apr 07 17:13:22 <ed_> ok did that
Apr 07 17:14:19 <ed_> looks like it's going through. do I need palm-catalog?
Apr 07 17:15:08 <jacques> ed_: only if you want to use preware to install palm catalog apps - which you can also use the App Catalog app for
Apr 07 17:15:18 <Rick_work> no, it just duplicates the app catalog stuff and has to call the app cat to install it
Apr 07 17:16:16 <ed_> hey thanks I think I got it. if not I know where to get help. Thank you
Apr 07 17:20:39 <oilsworkn> egaudet: you remember that color selector?
Apr 07 17:21:08 <gollyzila> To all the Preware devs:  the Simple Shutter Sound Off patch does not turn the sound off. I'm guessing the patch wasn't rebuilt correctly
Apr 07 17:21:48 <oilsworkn> s/to all the preware devs/to patch people/
Apr 07 17:21:48 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO: I cut and pasted the qos stuff by hand into .config andit *seems* to be happily compiling only the stuff affected by qos
Apr 07 17:22:17 <oilsworkn> :)
Apr 07 17:22:31 <gollyzila> I guess. But weren't all the patches rebuilt or something like that?
Apr 07 17:22:40 <sbromwich> gollyzila: I can compile a kernel for you that disables all sound, if you want?
Apr 07 17:22:45 <halfhalo_T400> yeah... like the preware devs do anything....
Apr 07 17:23:15 <gollyzila> Uhhhh, I just need to turn off the camera shutter sound
Apr 07 17:23:21 <oilsworkn> except... you know... develop preware :)
Apr 07 17:23:31 <sbromwich> sounds like you want to talk to an app developer then
Apr 07 17:23:44 <oilsworkn> gollyzila: i bet you've been told this alot: mute toggle turns off the shutter sound
Apr 07 17:24:06 <sbromwich> then you can upskirt to your heart's content
Apr 07 17:24:22 <oilsworkn> lols
Apr 07 17:24:34 <gollyzila> I know that. I just forget when I want to take a quick pic
Apr 07 17:24:35 <uNiXpSyChO> sbromwich: yeah.  it will compile but kernel will bomb at boot. :(
Apr 07 17:24:58 <sbromwich> bugger, am I looking at make mrproper and recompile from scratch, uNiXpSyChO?
Apr 07 17:26:33 <uNiXpSyChO> sbromwich: you can try.  i didnt do mrproper, i just removed the whole qos bracket.
Apr 07 17:26:52 <uNiXpSyChO> maybe if i leave the parent and disable everything else it might boot
Apr 07 17:27:24 <sbromwich> I cut and pasted qos back in then just did make, it did a make config to pick up one option I missed and now it's running
Apr 07 17:27:42 <sbromwich> bearing in mind I'm looking at 2-3 hours at a time to compile a kernel... I'll risk it with what I've got ;-)
Apr 07 17:27:45 <uNiXpSyChO> you got it booted without qos???
Apr 07 17:27:49 <sbromwich> no
Apr 07 17:27:52 <uNiXpSyChO> oh
Apr 07 17:27:59 <sbromwich> I'm recompiling it with qos added back in to .config
Apr 07 17:28:38 <jacques> sbromwich: why so long to compile? you are native building the kernel? cross-compile should only take a few minutes
Apr 07 17:29:04 <sbromwich> jacques: you are making some assumptions about what sort of cpu I'm building on
Apr 07 17:29:17 <oilsworkn> that it was made this decade :)
Apr 07 17:29:28 <sbromwich> I was on a PIII 600, got fed up with it, and went out and expensed myself an atom... 1.66 netbook
Apr 07 17:29:30 <jacques> sbromwich: indeed I am
Apr 07 17:29:40 <sbromwich> which is unfortunately not as much faster as I was hoping
Apr 07 17:29:55 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 17:30:01 <oilsworkn> well, it is a netbook
Apr 07 17:30:13 <halfhalo_T400> I hope netbooks die
Apr 07 17:30:16 <sbromwich> yeah, my laptop's at the office
Apr 07 17:30:21 <sbromwich> I *heart* my netbook
Apr 07 17:30:22 <entity-> why
Apr 07 17:30:25 <sbromwich> great for OTG stuff
Apr 07 17:30:25 <entity-> i love my netbook
Apr 07 17:30:26 <jacques> sbromwich: yeah I had same issue with my netbook - I thought it would be almost as fast as a 1.7GHz Pemtium-M - boy was I wrong
Apr 07 17:30:34 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 07 17:30:34 <halfhalo_T400> with CULV's as cheap as they are, netbooks are useless
Apr 07 17:30:43 <zsoc_wirc>  I build on a 1.7, it's pretty bad
Apr 07 17:31:06 <sbromwich> halfhalo_T400: if only they were available in staples here in canada.
Apr 07 17:31:22 <halfhalo_T400> Their at staples here in the US, which is what matters
Apr 07 17:31:28 <sbromwich> I'm waiting on my quad core with 6 meg of L3 cache to arrive... that should make things run a little faster
Apr 07 17:31:28 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 17:31:33 <halfhalo_T400> and I _THINK_ they should be up there as well
Apr 07 17:31:35 <jacques> these days I build on a 1.7GHz Core2 Duo
Apr 07 17:31:38 <sbromwich> unfortunately I am physically disabled and unable to make it to the states
Apr 07 17:31:46 <halfhalo_T400> I'm waiting for my 6 core from AMD
Apr 07 17:31:52 <halfhalo_T400> priced at under 200
Apr 07 17:31:57 <sbromwich> nice
Apr 07 17:32:05 <sbromwich> how much L3?
Apr 07 17:32:10 <jacques> s/1.7/1.6/
Apr 07 17:32:10 <infobot> jacques meant: these days I build on a 1.6GHz Core2 Duo
Apr 07 17:32:14 <oilsworkn> im not waiting on anything
Apr 07 17:32:35 <halfhalo_T400> no idea how much L3
Apr 07 17:32:44 <oilsworkn> wait, i filed my tax return yesterday
Apr 07 17:32:48 <oilsworkn> so, im waiting on that :)
Apr 07 17:32:53 <jacques> main issue with my first gen atom netbook is memory bandwidth - it's somewhat improved with the new pinetrail atoms
Apr 07 17:32:53 <halfhalo_T400> but my Q6600 is bottlenecking my system at stock speeds
Apr 07 17:33:05 <sbromwich> I think next time I'm in the office I'll set up a cross-compile on one of the servers... make -j80 should run quite nicely
Apr 07 17:33:34 * jacques is waiting for either lenovo or apple to get their act together and build a good notebook
Apr 07 17:33:47 <halfhalo_T400> lol
Apr 07 17:33:54 <halfhalo_T400> my T400 does just fine
Apr 07 17:34:11 <oilsworkn> my laptop was free, so i never complain about it
Apr 07 17:34:14 <sbromwich> be interesting to see how well the cross compile runs on ppc
Apr 07 17:34:26 <sbromwich> ditto, oilsworkn
Apr 07 17:34:34 <sbromwich> well... taxpayers paid for it for me
Apr 07 17:34:38 <jacques> sbromwich: ppc host arm target - I've never tried that one :-)
Apr 07 17:34:42 <oilsworkn> the company i work for payed for mine
Apr 07 17:34:43 <halfhalo_T400> If I ever need to compile big stuff I use my Schools grid cluster
Apr 07 17:34:46 <oilsworkn> it was given to a fieldnam
Apr 07 17:34:48 <oilsworkn> fieldman*
Apr 07 17:34:52 <oilsworkn> who broke the screen completely off
Apr 07 17:34:57 <oilsworkn> somehow
Apr 07 17:35:00 <sbromwich> oh niiiiice
Apr 07 17:35:02 <oilsworkn> they were going to pitch it
Apr 07 17:35:12 <oilsworkn> so i ordered $30 worth of parts off ebay and its brand new :)
Apr 07 17:35:18 <sbromwich> sweet!
Apr 07 17:35:37 <uNiXpSyChO> sbromwich: qos removed and booted
Apr 07 17:35:59 <sbromwich> you got it working sans qos?
Apr 07 17:36:25 <halfhalo_T400> I have extra laptops that just sorta sit around and do nothing... its sad
Apr 07 17:36:44 <sbromwich> hmm, that's a point halfhalo_T400...
Apr 07 17:36:50 <oilsworkn> its like a little grave yard?
Apr 07 17:36:54 <uNiXpSyChO> yep
Apr 07 17:36:55 <sbromwich> has anyone tried distcc with the cross compile?
Apr 07 17:37:06 <halfhalo_T400> No, not really.  Their all relatively new
Apr 07 17:37:21 <sbromwich> and if so... does it work?
Apr 07 17:37:49 <sbromwich> I wonder if I removed/added something else that made the kernel unhappy
Apr 07 17:37:59 <oilsworkn> halfhalo_T400: sell them
Apr 07 17:38:24 <halfhalo_T400> But... I _like_ them!
Apr 07 17:38:48 <oilsworkn> do you boot them all up in a circle around you?
Apr 07 17:38:58 <halfhalo_T400> I have once.....
Apr 07 17:39:22 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 17:40:04 <sbromwich> booting, ominously lacking in glowiness...
Apr 07 17:40:20 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Mar 17 23:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 17:40:21 <sbromwich> sod.
Apr 07 17:40:44 <gollyzila> So should I contact the dev of that patch? It WAS working before the Preware server problems.
Apr 07 17:41:43 <phil_bw> sbromwich, that kernel is going to be the death of you I swear.  everytime I come in this chan you're fighting with it in some shape or form :P
Apr 07 17:41:50 <sbromwich> *grin*
Apr 07 17:41:56 <sbromwich> -rt *will* be mine!
Apr 07 17:42:26 <sbromwich> worst case I'll lean on the VP of SW dev at novell to get some of his kernel guys to get it working
Apr 07 17:42:42 <phil_bw> that works too
Apr 07 17:42:53 <sbromwich> laziness being a virtue and all
Apr 07 17:43:31 <phil_bw> indeed
Apr 07 17:43:58 <gollyzila> Jhoff80: you here?
Apr 07 17:44:35 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO: did you disable QoS from the root or disable each module one by one but keep the root qos framework?
Apr 07 17:45:54 <uNiXpSyChO> i left qos enabled and removed everything under it
Apr 07 17:46:48 <sbromwich> ok
Apr 07 17:48:36 <sbromwich> compiling again
Apr 07 17:48:49 <sbromwich> which suggests a good time for lunch
Apr 07 17:48:57 <sbromwich> or possibly a 4 course meal with all the trimmings
Apr 07 17:49:02 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 17:55:58 <oilsworkn> i have to say, with verizon and att getting the pre+, i hope sprint gets it
Apr 07 17:56:19 <zsoc_wirc> oilsworkn: they are
Apr 07 17:56:27 <oilsworkn> announced?
Apr 07 17:56:32 <gollyzila> I hope sprint gets new Palm hardware running webos
Apr 07 17:56:45 <phil_bw> oilsworkn, I bet the excess inventory has been quite a factor in pushing out a new better device such as the plus
Apr 07 17:56:46 <oilsworkn> zsoc_wirc: when is this to go down?
Apr 07 17:56:57 * oilsworkn will buy one for sprint
Apr 07 17:57:02 <zsoc_wirc> oilsworkn: no, it's a secret
Apr 07 17:57:13 <oilsworkn> ive been seriously considering buying a verizon one and trying to get it to work on sprint
Apr 07 17:57:54 <zsoc_wirc> oilsworkn: national retail channels are dry for sprint. all the inventory is mucked up in corporate and dealer stores (where they don't do instant rebates)
Apr 07 17:58:04 <zsoc_wirc> so they need something, and soon
Apr 07 18:01:06 <oilsworkn> how do you know so much about sprint?
Apr 07 18:04:19 <zsoc_wirc> I am omnipotent.
Apr 07 18:04:26 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 18:05:25 * jacques believes zsoc_wirc 
Apr 07 18:05:41 <jacques> I will get a sprint plus ASAP
Apr 07 18:05:45 <phil_bw> so has there been any progress made in the way of using bluetooth on the Pre for more than just voice?  I've got this expensive-ass printer with a bluetooth icon on it sitting here waiting for some action...
Apr 07 18:06:32 <jacques> zsoc_wirc: I think you meant omniscient
Apr 07 18:07:10 <zsoc_wirc> jacques: no, I'm everywhere :/
Apr 07 18:07:44 <keith> phil_bw: cant you replace the stack w/ bluez?
Apr 07 18:07:56 <sbromwich> phil_bw: bluetooth printing doesn't appear to be compiled in
Apr 07 18:08:35 <jacques> zsoc_wirc: that's onmipresent
Apr 07 18:08:36 <phil_bw> keith, sbromwich, didn't I hear that the particular bluetooth chip doesn't have available drivers or something of that sort?
Apr 07 18:08:50 <sbromwich> there's a whole bunch of stuff not compiled in
Apr 07 18:08:51 <jacques> s/nm/mn/
Apr 07 18:08:52 <infobot> jacques meant: zsoc_wirc: that's omnipresent
Apr 07 18:08:57 <zsoc_wirc> jacques: oh, well then I'm uh..
Apr 07 18:08:58 <sbromwich> printers and mice were the ones that stuck out for me but there's more
Apr 07 18:10:31 <phil_bw> sbromwich, just a little obex love would be nice
Apr 07 18:10:37 <sbromwich> although there is curiously enough support for a pile of ps/2 mice
Apr 07 18:11:05 <sbromwich> eg TI lifebook touchpad
Apr 07 18:11:07 <jacques> weird
Apr 07 18:11:15 * sbromwich scratches his head over that one
Apr 07 18:11:32 <phil_bw> hm
Apr 07 18:11:47 <sbromwich>   CC      drivers/input/mouse/synaptics.o
Apr 07 18:11:47 <sbromwich>   CC      drivers/input/mouse/alps.o
Apr 07 18:11:47 <sbromwich>   CC      drivers/input/mouse/logips2pp.o
Apr 07 18:11:47 <sbromwich>   CC      drivers/input/mouse/lifebook.o
Apr 07 18:11:47 <sbromwich>   CC      drivers/input/mouse/trackpoint.o
Apr 07 18:11:51 <sbromwich> like... wtf?
Apr 07 18:12:40 <phil_bw> haha
Apr 07 18:12:59 * sbromwich is celebrating Festival of Cheap Chocolate with some chocolate covered almonds and noticed the warning that "may contain nuts"
Apr 07 18:13:01 <sbromwich> *may*?
Apr 07 18:13:21 <phil_bw> haha
Apr 07 18:14:10 <phil_bw> I read the side of a jar of peanuts "Produced in a factory that produces nuts"
Apr 07 18:14:12 <phil_bw> or something like that
Apr 07 18:14:29 <phil_bw> I was like "I sure hope so, I'd be worried if it came from the good year factory or something"
Apr 07 18:15:35 <sbromwich> mmm... lawyers are doing their best to reduce the average IQ of the human race, I'm sure
Apr 07 18:16:22 <jacques> yeah I got a bag of peanuts on a flight yesterday and it said "processed in a factory which may process peanuts"
Apr 07 18:16:50 <oilsworkn> awesome
Apr 07 18:17:15 <phil_bw> I say we just get rid of all of the useless disclaimers and let natural selection take over
Apr 07 18:17:55 <sbromwich> kill them all and let god sort them out
Apr 07 18:18:38 <oilsworkn> my personal favorite is the "dont put baby in oven" warning image
Apr 07 18:19:45 <sbromwich> that is awesome.
Apr 07 18:22:11 <nt4cats> oilsworkn: nobody puts Baby in a corner!
Apr 07 18:22:30 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 18:22:49 <nt4cats> oilsworkn: you're actually old enough to get that one?
Apr 07 18:23:11 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: _IM_ old enough. everyone's seen that movie
Apr 07 18:23:33 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: I was disappointed, it's not all that dirty.
Apr 07 18:23:53 <zsoc_wirc> hahaha
Apr 07 18:23:59 <zsoc_wirc> well it was for that time
Apr 07 18:23:59 <sbromwich> my sister watched it at least once a day for 2 years
Apr 07 18:24:19 <sbromwich> unfortunately somehow the video tape ended up getting bleach in it and it never worked again
Apr 07 18:24:30 <zsoc_wirc> sad
Apr 07 18:24:33 <nt4cats> sbromwich: yes, my wife still thinks it is sorta hot -- so I welcome her to watch it whenever she likes
Apr 07 18:24:49 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 18:24:51 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: never, ever, ever post a picture with your wife in it
Apr 07 18:25:03 <oilsworkn> as it will ruin his mental image
Apr 07 18:25:04 <sbromwich> I was happy, even though it meant getting mild burns from the bleach
Apr 07 18:26:50 <entity-> what is some really romantic music
Apr 07 18:27:17 <oilsworkn> entity-: you realize this is a channel full of nerds, right?
Apr 07 18:27:44 <nt4cats> the theme to star trek the next generation works on my wife ...
Apr 07 18:27:59 <oilsworkn> i have to say, nt4cats wife is awesome
Apr 07 18:28:15 <phil_bw> entity-, don't be surpised if you get answers like "NIN- Closer, or The Blood Hound Gang - The Bad Touch" from this group anyway...
Apr 07 18:28:38 <oilsworkn> lol @ blood hound gang
Apr 07 18:29:06 <zsoc_wirc> entity-: matt kearny
Apr 07 18:29:29 <oilsworkn> what about: tenacious d - fuck her gently ?
Apr 07 18:29:32 <oilsworkn> haha
Apr 07 18:29:37 <en0x> <3 NaN Player
Apr 07 18:29:43 <entity-> thanks bro
Apr 07 18:30:00 <oilsworkn> nan player got released?
Apr 07 18:30:16 <en0x> nope
Apr 07 18:30:18 <oilsworkn> the developer stopped whining?
Apr 07 18:30:24 <en0x> got beta
Apr 07 18:30:29 <entity-> damnit
Apr 07 18:30:37 <entity-> he isnt on grooveshark
Apr 07 18:30:38 <oilsworkn> so, no to the second question?
Apr 07 18:30:48 <oilsworkn> xD
Apr 07 18:30:53 <en0x> oilsworkn: he got more beta testers and i'm one of them...
Apr 07 18:31:07 <en0x> u should sent him a PM yesterday on forum so u would get in too
Apr 07 18:31:19 <oilsworkn> i never listen to much music on my pre
Apr 07 18:31:22 <oilsworkn> beyond drpodder
Apr 07 18:31:34 <oilsworkn> or some pandora
Apr 07 18:31:36 <en0x> me too but this app is WAY better then music remixed ;)
Apr 07 18:32:06 <oilsworkn> it seems like it has a lot of crap i will never use
Apr 07 18:32:19 <oilsworkn> i need a media player that just has 2 buttons, play and skip
Apr 07 18:32:20 <en0x> dyna playlists
Apr 07 18:32:27 <oilsworkn> and it just randomly goes through my mp3s
Apr 07 18:32:40 <oilsworkn> everything else is unnecessary for me
Apr 07 18:33:10 <Mousey> hmm, how come sometimes my unlock icon goes missing?
Apr 07 18:33:15 <en0x> lol @ "Dog ate my wife's Pre, what are our options? "
Apr 07 18:33:19 <entity-> never mind
Apr 07 18:33:22 <entity-> i foudn it on grovoeshark
Apr 07 18:33:38 <oilsworkn> in fact, i might just make my own music player
Apr 07 18:33:42 <oilsworkn> with 2 buttons
Apr 07 18:34:35 <oilsworkn> and call it "lets face it, this is really all you need"
Apr 07 18:35:20 <nt4cats> recent photograph of my wife http://imgur.com/bcoP5
Apr 07 18:35:30 * oilsworkn isnt sure if he should click it or not
Apr 07 18:35:40 <entity-> i dont understand why some people dont like grooveshark
Apr 07 18:36:08 <entity-> for 30$/yr
Apr 07 18:36:18 <nt4cats> nothing in this photo will violate workplace, religious, or moral standards
Apr 07 18:36:24 <entity-> you have every song in the world at your finger tips
Apr 07 18:36:28 <airmack> entity-: the webversion is free right?
Apr 07 18:36:38 <entity-> ya
Apr 07 18:36:45 <entity-> even that is terrifc
Apr 07 18:36:51 <oilsworkn> nt4cats: shes pretty hot
Apr 07 18:36:58 <entity-> the desktop app is alot better
Apr 07 18:37:04 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 18:37:05 <nt4cats> oilsworkn: I'm a lucky guy
Apr 07 18:37:06 <entity-> you get that
Apr 07 18:37:10 <entity-> and the mobile app
Apr 07 18:37:15 <entity-> for 30$/yr
Apr 07 18:37:23 <entity-> that like that cost of a blow job
Apr 07 18:37:36 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 18:39:30 <airmack> entity-: i hope you liked the taste
Apr 07 18:39:53 <entity-> taste of what
Apr 07 18:39:58 <oilsworkn> dick?
Apr 07 18:40:47 <Mousey> ew
Apr 07 18:41:19 <oilsworkn> lol, what else could airmack have been insinuating?
Apr 07 18:42:01 <nt4cats> This is the 21st century ... just because you don't choose to kiss boys doesn't mean we should make others feel bad if they choose to.
Apr 07 18:43:46 <entity-> lol you guys are messed
Apr 07 18:43:53 <entity-> you completely missed my point
Apr 07 18:45:54 <phil_bw> so not to get off topic here or anything, but do you guys know if it would work to plug in an external hard drive into one computer via usb and another via firewire?
Apr 07 18:46:49 <oilsworkn> phil_bw: ive never tried it
Apr 07 18:46:56 <oilsworkn> but it does sound like its going to end in failure
Apr 07 18:47:04 <phil_bw> that's what I'm thinkin...
Apr 07 18:47:32 <oilsworkn> though we have a printer hooked parallel to one machine and usb to another
Apr 07 18:47:33 <oilsworkn> and that works
Apr 07 18:47:40 <ddenardo> the network at my office has gone down 3-4 times today.
Apr 07 18:47:42 <phil_bw> It's currently plugged into a desktop system via usb and shared over the network... rather slow to transfer... the laptop has firewire though
Apr 07 18:47:46 <oilsworkn> but thats much different from a harddrive
Apr 07 18:47:52 <phil_bw> hm
Apr 07 18:48:02 <phil_bw> maybe I'll just try it... I mean what's the worse that can happen right?
Apr 07 18:48:12 <oilsworkn> fire?
Apr 07 18:48:24 <phil_bw> it's a small device, could be put out quickly
Apr 07 18:48:40 <oilsworkn> explosion?
Apr 07 18:48:50 <oilsworkn> creating a black hole and killing everything?
Apr 07 18:49:27 <phil_bw> well if that's the case I'll just sue verbatim for not putting the correct warning label on the drive saying "may cause an explosion killing everyone if you plug both of these ports in at once"
Apr 07 18:50:27 <oilsworkn> cause they were too afraid to attempt it!
Apr 07 18:51:14 <phil_bw> figured I'd try googling it first... so far nothin
Apr 07 18:52:49 <nt4cats> here is what it'll look like near phil_bw's house in a few minutes ... http://tinyurl.com/ye7ta5l  (again, pic 100% safe for work / kids / clergy)
Apr 07 18:53:08 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 18:53:32 <phil_bw> you guys aren't instilling any faith here
Apr 07 18:53:44 <oilsworkn> look on the bright side, if you do end the world, at least nobody will know it was you
Apr 07 18:53:50 <oilsworkn> cause they'll all be dead
Apr 07 18:54:00 <sbromwich> 45 minutes to compile the kernel
Apr 07 18:54:03 <sbromwich> *sigh*
Apr 07 18:54:09 <oilsworkn> lol
Apr 07 18:54:18 <phil_bw> 'cept you guys will probably kick my ass in heaven
Apr 07 18:54:22 <nt4cats> sbromwich: you're not supposed to compile *on* the PRe
Apr 07 18:54:34 <sbromwich> I'm not now
Apr 07 18:54:52 <sbromwich> I tried it before when I was on the PIII 600 but ran out of disk space
Apr 07 18:55:08 <oilsworkn> im not big on religion, but wouldn't blowing up the world get him a ticket to hell and not heaven?
Apr 07 18:55:28 <phil_bw> haha
Apr 07 18:58:34 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Mar 17 23:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 18:58:37 <sbromwich> bum.
Apr 07 19:00:35 <phil_bw> alright I'm goin in
Apr 07 19:00:39 <phil_bw> firewire cable in hand
Apr 07 19:01:03 <nt4cats> phil_bw: you're nowhere near the Northern suburbs of Philadelphia, PA, are you?
Apr 07 19:01:05 * phil_bw moves the irc window to the main monitor and switches kvm so other monitor is on desktop
Apr 07 19:01:12 <nt4cats> that's where my kids are right now ...
Apr 07 19:01:17 <nt4cats> (and wife)
Apr 07 19:01:19 <phil_bw> nt4cats, about as far from it, south of Portland, OR
Apr 07 19:01:54 <nt4cats> phil_bw: then please proceed!  The seismic shock should take a while to get here
Apr 07 19:02:33 <phil_bw> blah, first I gotta get my monitors sorted out... seems the desktop wants to use the TV as it's primary
Apr 07 19:05:55 <phil_bw> just a little longer... I've got the screwiest monitor config around for two computers...
Apr 07 19:09:10 <ttyme> Hey, Ne1 no anything about preware not installing after update 1.4.1.1
Apr 07 19:09:27 <Robi_> oh nice, my 800mhz patch + ondemand governor work great. best of both worlds.. when needed 800mhz is there and when not, 500mhz is dominant
Apr 07 19:10:04 <phil_bw> 3
Apr 07 19:10:05 <phil_bw> 2
Apr 07 19:10:07 <phil_bw> 1
Apr 07 19:10:21 <sbromwich> what was that rumbling noise I just heard?
Apr 07 19:11:46 * phil_bw doesn't know
Apr 07 19:11:59 <phil_bw> well so far nothing
Apr 07 19:12:15 <phil_bw> drive is still accessible on the USB side, nothing on the firewire side
Apr 07 19:17:00 <nt4cats> lousy netweather today for me
Apr 07 19:17:02 <phil_bw> sbromwich, so the final results: doesn't work
Apr 07 19:17:36 <ttyme> Hey, Ne1 no anything about preware not installing after update 1.4.1.1
Apr 07 19:17:48 <sbromwich> phil_bw: welcome to my world ;-)
Apr 07 19:18:11 <phil_bw> sbromwich, no if I were in your world I would try over and over and over again :P
Apr 07 19:18:26 <nt4cats> ttyme: how did you try to install it?
Apr 07 19:20:07 <ttyme> nt4: i had it installed and when i updated with 1.4.1.1 it erased all of my apps and preware was nowhere
Apr 07 19:20:11 <nt4cats> ttyme: you should try the instructions at the end/bottom of this page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware (under the heading "Preware Bootstrap")
Apr 07 19:21:55 <ttyme> now every time i try to reinstall it says Package Manager Service is not installed even though i installed it at the same time as preware
Apr 07 19:22:11 <nt4cats>  ttyme: you should try the instructions at the end/bottom of this page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware (under the heading "Preware Bootstrap")
Apr 07 19:22:41 <nt4cats> ttyme: those instructions assume you have command-line access to your Pre
Apr 07 19:22:47 <nt4cats> (e.g. novaterm or Terminal application)
Apr 07 19:22:52 <nt4cats> (or ssh)
Apr 07 19:23:36 <ttyme> how do i know if i have or get cmd line access
Apr 07 19:24:14 <nt4cats> ttyme: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux
Apr 07 19:24:23 <nt4cats> ttyme: the "procedure" is on the right-hand side of that page
Apr 07 19:25:02 <ttyme> thank you, ill try it out
Apr 07 19:25:55 <sbromwich> whee, a friend of mine is going to see if he can port my tnb.pl script to JS "for fun"
Apr 07 19:26:11 <nt4cats> ttyme: what OS do you run on your computer?
Apr 07 19:26:16 <phil_bw> tnb.pl?
Apr 07 19:27:05 <ttyme> xp
Apr 07 19:27:29 <ttyme> 32bit
Apr 07 19:29:12 <nt4cats> ttyme: I don't run windows, so I can't guarantee this is true, but I think you can skip steps 1&2 and things will work.
Apr 07 19:29:50 <nt4cats> ttyme: wait, nope, I lied.  I think you do need to do 1 & 2
Apr 07 19:30:12 <nt4cats> I'm guessing that the 'plumbing' that makes novaterm work is probably bundled with the SDK
Apr 07 19:30:40 <ttyme> ok thx
Apr 07 19:31:06 <nt4cats> with Linux all you'd need is novacom/novaterm (packaged separately from the SDK) and your Pre in Developer mode
Apr 07 19:39:31 <phil_bw> speaking of novaterm.. anyone know how to kill the green?
Apr 07 19:39:40 <zsoc_wirc> what green?
Apr 07 19:39:51 <phil_bw> green text on black background
Apr 07 19:40:01 <zsoc_wirc> also, if I had a dollar for everytime I tried to shift+ins on a windows machine.
Apr 07 19:40:15 <zsoc_wirc> who wouldn't want that? it means you're a hacker
Apr 07 19:40:32 <phil_bw> haha
Apr 07 19:40:46 <phil_bw> no it means my terminal is stuck in 1878
Apr 07 19:40:49 <phil_bw> er
Apr 07 19:40:52 <phil_bw> 1978
Apr 07 19:42:07 <sbromwich> phil_bw: echo ctrl-v escape c
Apr 07 19:42:10 <sbromwich> and stty sane
Apr 07 19:43:10 <loot-> has anyone here purchased a TI EVM kit before?
Apr 07 19:43:13 <loot-> more specifically
Apr 07 19:43:15 <phil_bw> sbromwich, excuse my windows lameness here, but how do I echo ctrl-v?
Apr 07 19:43:18 <loot-> http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tmdsevm3530.html
Apr 07 19:43:29 <sbromwich> in novaterm
Apr 07 19:43:45 <sbromwich> type in echo, press ctrl-v, press escape, press c, press enter
Apr 07 19:43:53 <sbromwich> sorry... type in echo space
Apr 07 19:44:05 <sbromwich> that's spacebar not s-p-a-c-e
Apr 07 19:44:11 <phil_bw> doing control v doesn't do anything
Apr 07 19:44:15 <bpadalino|work> loot-: what do you need to know ?
Apr 07 19:44:16 <phil_bw> lol, I'm not that big of an idiot
Apr 07 19:44:23 <sbromwich> *grin*
Apr 07 19:44:30 <sbromwich> I was trying to disambiguate myself
Apr 07 19:44:39 <phil_bw> most terminals come in standard white on black (or black on white, which isn't awful either)
Apr 07 19:44:49 <sbromwich> echo ^V^[c is the escape code to reset the terminal
Apr 07 19:45:41 <phil_bw> it's not liking me
Apr 07 19:45:44 <loot-> bpadalino|work: just looking to see if anyone had used it yet and had anything to say about it before i buy one
Apr 07 19:45:52 <sbromwich> is it green as soon as you log in?
Apr 07 19:45:53 <loot-> and also if they've done any daughter board hacking yet
Apr 07 19:45:59 <phil_bw> sbromwich, yes
Apr 07 19:46:08 <sbromwich> the whole screen?
Apr 07 19:46:15 <sbromwich> or just the bottom 2 lines?
Apr 07 19:46:34 <bpadalino|work> loot-: we've used them here and they're decent .. we have an omap4 one here now, though .. not sure what happened to the omap3 ones
Apr 07 19:47:39 <loot-> i want an omap4 :(
Apr 07 19:47:58 <loot-> i see ti has some ethernet modules for EVM's
Apr 07 19:48:05 <loot-> but not the omap3... or at least that i can find
Apr 07 19:48:26 <loot-> i think that evm i pasted comes with a single 10/100 phy or something doesnt it?
Apr 07 19:48:48 <loot-> would be nice to have at least 2 ethernet ports in one of those boards
Apr 07 19:49:00 <ttyme> wow now i think something else might be wrong i tried installing a random app from the app catalog and it says install failed do to lack of 9.3mb of space even though my pre says ive got 6.4gb free..!?!?!
Apr 07 19:49:09 <bpadalino|work> there is an omap3 zoom platform which actually was a real phone-like interface i thought
Apr 07 19:49:16 <sbromwich> 6.4 gig free on /media/internal ttyme
Apr 07 19:49:23 <loot-> hmm
Apr 07 19:49:43 <bpadalino|work> http://logicpd.com/products/development-kits/texas-instruments-zoom-omap36x-mdp
Apr 07 19:49:51 <bpadalino|work> you'd have the nerdiest phone around
Apr 07 19:49:58 <sbromwich> ttyme: you will need to delete it to give the space back to the VG then recreate the LV smaller, then you can lvextend whichever partition
Apr 07 19:50:12 <loot-> hah
Apr 07 19:50:18 <loot-> i still want an omap4 :(
Apr 07 19:50:31 <loot-> i know they just announced it but i want some releases!
Apr 07 19:50:49 <bpadalino|work> spring of next year i think they said they were going full production
Apr 07 19:50:52 <sbromwich> loot-: and you want them now? ;-)
Apr 07 19:51:46 <loot-> of course
Apr 07 19:51:47 <loot-> hehe
Apr 07 19:52:06 <loot-> who wants to wait for 4.5watt tdp 1ghz+ multi core
Apr 07 19:52:07 <loot-> :P
Apr 07 19:52:52 <bpadalino|work> software is definitely not mature on them yet
Apr 07 19:52:57 <loot-> i could see myself building an omap4 car computer finally
Apr 07 19:53:38 <loot-> runs off next to nothing and with proper software and storage it would boot nearly instant
Apr 07 19:53:51 <phil_bw> sbromwich, http://www.boraware.com/misc/CIMG0358.jpg
Apr 07 19:53:57 <phil_bw> sorry that was the slowest image upload in history
Apr 07 19:54:39 <phil_bw> and I just thought of something.... I could have taken a screen shot... maybe I am an idiot after all
Apr 07 19:55:35 <sbromwich> yeah, that looks odd, phil_bw
Apr 07 19:55:35 <zsoc_wirc> clearly the problem wit that screenshot is the os
Apr 07 19:55:47 <sbromwich> the prompt doesn't look coloured right
Apr 07 19:56:16 <phil_bw> zsoc_wirc, yeah yeah, I used Linux for a very long time, eventually gave in and went to windows since my PalmOS dev software was windows only
Apr 07 19:56:31 <zsoc_wirc> virtualbox
Apr 07 19:56:48 <phil_bw> zsoc_wirc, I don't believe virtual box even existed yet
Apr 07 19:56:52 <phil_bw> this was years ago
Apr 07 19:57:14 <zsoc_wirc> hmm.. :p
Apr 07 19:57:18 <phil_bw> laptop just came with vista so I used that until 7 came out and now it has Win 7 pro on it
Apr 07 19:57:54 <phil_bw> I've even got an old copy of Mandrake Linux autographed by Leo Laporte
Apr 07 19:58:14 <phil_bw> "Leo Laporte ZDTV" (makes me feel old...)
Apr 07 19:58:39 <zsoc_wirc> leo laporte makes me want to stab myself in the eyes
Apr 07 19:59:05 <phil_bw> haha
Apr 07 19:59:13 <phil_bw> again, this was *years* ago
Apr 07 19:59:41 <sbromwich> yeah, just verified on mine... black background with red/blue prompt
Apr 07 19:59:46 <phil_bw> I hopped distros a few times since then.  Used Gentoo for a really long time and really liked it, eventually installed Debian on a seperate system for a server
Apr 07 19:59:49 <sbromwich> http://www.fop.ns.ca/pre/novatermcap.png
Apr 07 20:00:13 <sbromwich> registry entry gone for a burton, perhaps?
Apr 07 20:00:16 <phil_bw> that's not bad at all
Apr 07 20:01:07 <DigitalMan> Newbie question: Why is my Launcher still at 5x5 icons, even though I've run the Emergency Patch Recovery? (It says no patches installed.) I've rebooted the Pre.
Apr 07 20:03:23 <sbromwich> 51 minutes later I have another kernel to try, huzzah, etc
Apr 07 20:04:12 <phil_bw> sbromwich, Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Apr 7 13:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 20:04:37 <sbromwich> is that one of mine or your's?
Apr 07 20:04:49 <phil_bw> that's me poking fun at you
Apr 07 20:04:59 <sbromwich> gah
Apr 07 20:05:03 <phil_bw> I can't change my bloody terminal colors, do you think I know how to recompile a kernel?
Apr 07 20:05:09 <sbromwich> getting my excitement level up for no good reason ;-)
Apr 07 20:05:10 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 07 20:05:32 <sbromwich> if you'd asked me 20 years ago I could have quoted you the ansi escape sequences
Apr 07 20:05:44 <sbromwich> these days you're lucky to get echo ^V^[c ;-)
Apr 07 20:06:13 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Mar 17 23:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 20:06:15 <sbromwich> bast.
Apr 07 20:06:38 <sbromwich> time, I think, to start afresh from /proc/config.gz
Apr 07 20:06:45 <phil_bw> sbromwich, you are about as dedicated as they come
Apr 07 20:07:55 <sbromwich> just trying to get the phone of my dreams implemented
Apr 07 20:08:30 <phil_bw> you still compiling on that old PIII?
Apr 07 20:08:36 <sbromwich> the pre is so very, very close to what came to mind when I saw the first pilot 5000's
Apr 07 20:08:54 <sbromwich> I am now on a relatively fast atom netbook 1.66GHz
Apr 07 20:08:56 <DigitalMan> sigh
Apr 07 20:08:59 <sbromwich> keyword being "relatively"
Apr 07 20:09:09 <phil_bw> ah
Apr 07 20:09:28 <sbromwich> just under an hour to compile instead of... I think an hour and a half
Apr 07 20:09:52 <phil_bw> can you use distcc to speed things up a hair?
Apr 07 20:09:58 <Mousey> why on gods greeen earth can i not get woqi to recognize that my phone IS attached and that novacomd IS running?!
Apr 07 20:10:10 <sbromwich> that's what I was thinking about
Apr 07 20:10:34 <sbromwich> if I can be arsed to go to the office I'll be able to get a blade running with cross-compilation and then it'll be make -j80 all the way
Apr 07 20:11:12 <phil_bw> that'd hurry the process a bit
Apr 07 20:11:25 <kris__> hey all...quick quesiton
Apr 07 20:11:47 <kris__> my preware now shows multiple languegaes
Apr 07 20:12:16 <kris__> any ideas?
Apr 07 20:13:23 <Orizzle> i thought the new one added languages
Apr 07 20:15:05 <kris__> so it shows all languages under Available Packages?
Apr 07 20:15:13 <kris__> that doesnt seem right
Apr 07 20:17:50 <zsoc_wirc> Mousey: novacom isn't running
Apr 07 20:18:07 <zsoc_wirc> Mousey: also, just use the bootstrap
Apr 07 20:18:46 <Mousey> it IS running
Apr 07 20:19:05 <Mousey> [2010/4/7 13:16:46] novacom_register_device:187: dev 'ac891b1f26837b3353b46ce73e3dbbd64acfdae6' via usb type castle-linux
Apr 07 20:19:07 <Mousey> see??
Apr 07 20:19:21 <Mousey> and novaterm works
Apr 07 20:19:28 <Mousey> and WOQI doesn't
Apr 07 20:19:51 <zsoc_wirc> mousy: so then why do you need wosqi?
Apr 07 20:20:42 <zsoc_wirc> ?
Apr 07 20:20:56 <sbromwich> Mousey: have you seen novacomd: "novacom_go_online" as well in your syslogs?
Apr 07 20:21:38 <Mousey> [2010/4/7 13:16:46] going online
Apr 07 20:22:06 <zsoc_wirc> WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO USE WOQI FOR
Apr 07 20:22:23 <Mousey> INSTALLING greg_roll'S IM PATCHES
Apr 07 20:22:24 <sbromwich> TO WORSHIP AT THE CHURCH OF LOUDBOT
Apr 07 20:22:43 <zsoc_wirc> </cruisecontrol>
Apr 07 20:22:53 <zsoc_wirc> Mousey: well then.
Apr 07 20:22:57 <Mousey> ^_^
Apr 07 20:23:21 <zsoc_wirc> you can manually ipkg install and run the postinst
Apr 07 20:23:42 <Mousey> but woqi does so many fun things!
Apr 07 20:24:07 <zsoc_wirc> like no connect to your pre
Apr 07 20:24:13 <sbromwich> so does my pre with the vibrator set to permanently on
Apr 07 20:27:50 <Mousey> but WHY?!
Apr 07 20:28:08 <sbromwich> because I tell it to turn it on from LunaSysMgr?
Apr 07 20:28:21 <Mousey> oh. total non-sequitur
Apr 07 20:29:06 <sbromwich> no, if I turn on the vibrator permanently from shell with LunaSysMgr the pre will vibrate permanently and many fun things can be done with it.
Apr 07 20:29:56 <sbromwich> quite, quite sequential, I would say.
Apr 07 20:33:16 <ttyme> @nt4cats if your still there thanks 4 ur help it works now @sbromwich thanks got it working
Apr 07 20:34:47 <Mousey> ah ha!! it's SUN'S BORKEN JAVA1
Apr 07 20:34:59 <Mousey> so if i avoid sun's java, i can use it
Apr 07 20:35:00 <Mousey> funny
Apr 07 20:35:42 <sbromwich> or, possibly, your borken install of java?
Apr 07 20:35:59 <Mousey> no way man, debian installed it for me, therefore i did nothing wrong! O=)
Apr 07 20:36:04 * sbromwich applies occam's razor with some finesse
Apr 07 20:36:20 <zsoc_wirc> ugh, prepackaged linux binaries
Apr 07 20:37:06 <Mousey> thats not really it
Apr 07 20:37:15 <Mousey> but ok
Apr 07 20:40:14 <Mousey> woohoo! Gadu-Gadu Support
Apr 07 20:40:17 <Mousey> not that i use it
Apr 07 20:40:20 <Mousey> but more fuel for teh fire!
Apr 07 20:40:21 <Mousey> ^_^
Apr 07 20:40:33 <phil_bw> Mousey, how are those IM patches workin for ya?
Apr 07 20:42:02 <Mousey> phil_bw: they work great!
Apr 07 20:42:24 <Mousey> i really only use the jabber one, but it's been flawless, even after forgetting to remove it before upgrading (which i'm rectifying now)
Apr 07 20:42:40 <phil_bw> Mousey, I gave up on the built in messaging program a long time ago after the patches quit working.  I've since switched to Pidgin and haven't went back
Apr 07 20:42:49 <Mousey> there are known issues, i recommend the original thread: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/233983-messaging-plugins-add-more-im-options-your-pre.html
Apr 07 20:43:02 <Mousey> but it's fine
Apr 07 20:43:06 <sbromwich> pidgin under x?
Apr 07 20:43:06 <Mousey> you have pidgin for pre?
Apr 07 20:43:14 <Mousey> and what sbromwich asked
Apr 07 20:43:16 <phil_bw> yeah under X
Apr 07 20:43:28 <sbromwich> ooooh.
Apr 07 20:43:30 <phil_bw> works quite quite well
Apr 07 20:43:49 <phil_bw> remember, I'm the guy making a video to demonstrate openoffice running on the Pre, Pidgin was nothin
Apr 07 20:44:19 <sbromwich> I've been looking for a jabber client that would connect to my household jabber server for house notifications
Apr 07 20:44:44 <Mousey> sbromwich: that, and my work jabber.. that's why i use greg_roll's patches
Apr 07 20:44:46 <sbromwich> compile from source?
Apr 07 20:45:22 <phil_bw> I'm using precompiled debian packages, no way I am compiling anything on my Pre
Apr 07 20:45:37 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 07 20:45:53 <sbromwich> chroot or are there debian ipkgs (apt-ipkg?)
Apr 07 20:46:00 <phil_bw> chroot
Apr 07 20:46:34 <sbromwich> is there a downloadable chroot image available perchance?
Apr 07 20:47:02 <phil_bw> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Debian
Apr 07 20:47:06 <phil_bw> I started with the one on there
Apr 07 20:47:08 <sbromwich> danke
Apr 07 20:47:20 <phil_bw> if you want to do a lot of X windowing I recommend at least a gig
Apr 07 20:47:27 <phil_bw> I'm up to 1.5 gigs for my img file
Apr 07 20:47:56 <sbromwich> *grin*
Apr 07 20:48:09 <sbromwich> I think I've still got a fair bit of space free in my VG
Apr 07 20:48:28 <sbromwich> might end up with /media/internal at 128 meg or something at this rate ;-)
Apr 07 20:49:07 <phil_bw> I've been testing all sorts of stuff
Apr 07 20:49:11 <phil_bw> tried Audacity
Apr 07 20:49:17 <phil_bw> it grabbed the mic, recorded, then crashed
Apr 07 20:49:21 <sbromwich> hahahaha
Apr 07 20:49:33 <sbromwich> did it manage to save real data?
Apr 07 20:49:36 <phil_bw> figured I'd leave audo stuff well enough alone
Apr 07 20:49:39 <phil_bw> no
Apr 07 20:49:42 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 07 20:49:50 <phil_bw> I knew it had the mic though since the monitor responded when I talked into it
Apr 07 20:50:07 <sbromwich> tbh my pre is noisy enough as it is... I usually get 20-30 notifications an hour
Apr 07 20:50:16 <sbromwich> nice
Apr 07 20:51:18 <Mousey> lol, it sounds like a bad anime
Apr 07 20:51:22 <Mousey> DESTROY SOCKET-CHAN!
Apr 07 20:53:04 <sbromwich> svn commit -m "orwell is decommissioned" hosts
Apr 07 20:53:15 <sbromwich> *sigh*
Apr 07 20:53:20 <sbromwich> TMW.
Apr 07 20:54:44 <zsoc_wirc> phil_bw: I have an audio recorder...
Apr 07 20:55:35 <phil_bw> zsoc_wirc, I just use a command line script for it, don't need to do much audio recording really
Apr 07 21:01:27 <sbromwich> ( tar -cf - ./ ) | ( ssh -C palm-weos-device 'cd /opt/debian/ && tar -xvf - ' ) now running along happily, TYVM phil_bw :-)
Apr 07 21:02:17 <phil_bw> sbromwich, what's with debain in /opt?
Apr 07 21:02:35 <sbromwich> I'm not using loopback
Apr 07 21:02:51 <sbromwich> I created a separate lv for /opt for all the preware stuff
Apr 07 21:03:29 <phil_bw> I see
Apr 07 21:04:08 <sbromwich> I figured I would squeeze a little bit of extra performance off a regular ext3 volume instead of ext3 over loopback :-)
Apr 07 21:04:34 <phil_bw> that works
Apr 07 21:05:26 <phil_bw> I've found the loopback performance isn't all that bad
Apr 07 21:05:43 <sbromwich> then I can edit /etc/fstab and have everything mount for me automatically and all I have to do is cd /opt/debian ; chroot
Apr 07 21:05:48 <sbromwich> (in theory)
Apr 07 21:06:05 <phil_bw> trye
Apr 07 21:06:05 <phil_bw> er
Apr 07 21:06:06 <phil_bw> true
Apr 07 21:10:27 <sbromwich> palm-webos-device / # cat /etc/debian_version
Apr 07 21:10:27 <sbromwich> 5.0.1
Apr 07 21:10:27 <sbromwich> palm-webos-device / #
Apr 07 21:10:30 <sbromwich> ftw!
Apr 07 21:11:19 <phil_bw> quite interesting
Apr 07 21:11:27 <phil_bw> so you have apt-get and all that now eh?
Apr 07 21:11:39 <sbromwich> yup
Apr 07 21:11:49 <phil_bw> without any sort of chroot?
Apr 07 21:11:53 <sbromwich> just running apt-get update now
Apr 07 21:12:03 <sbromwich> cd /opt/debian ; chroot
Apr 07 21:12:24 <phil_bw> ah
Apr 07 21:12:41 <sbromwich> and, what else did I do...
Apr 07 21:12:42 <sbromwich> hmmm.
Apr 07 21:13:01 <sbromwich> ( cd / && tar -cf - ./dev ) | ( cd /opt/debian && tar -xvf - )
Apr 07 21:13:09 <phil_bw> btw, when you do get to Xing around, I've found there isn't a.. perfect.. window manager
Apr 07 21:13:21 <phil_bw> I'm in the process of modifying fvwm to make it mobile friendly
Apr 07 21:13:33 <sbromwich> and the core of the /etc/fstab diff is:
Apr 07 21:13:35 <sbromwich> +proc   /opt/debian/proc        proc    defaults        0       0
Apr 07 21:13:35 <sbromwich>  devpts /dev/pts        devpts  mode=0620,gid=5 0       0
Apr 07 21:13:35 <sbromwich> +devpts /opt/debian/dev/pts     devpts  mode=0620,gid=5 0       0
Apr 07 21:14:04 <sbromwich> oh, X apps won't launch without a WM?
Apr 07 21:14:18 <phil_bw> they will, they're just more managable with one
Apr 07 21:14:24 <phil_bw> the setup I am using is *very* bare
Apr 07 21:14:36 <sbromwich> I was just going ot start stuff from the terminal
Apr 07 21:14:46 <phil_bw> just has a menu when you click the "desktop" and a virtual desktop pager to get to windows that are hanging off the screen
Apr 07 21:14:56 <sbromwich> GUIs are after all just a way of getting lots of big xterms ;-)
Apr 07 21:15:10 <sbromwich> k
Apr 07 21:15:13 <phil_bw> you can start stuff either way
Apr 07 21:15:41 <phil_bw> will need to either use DISPLAY=localhost:0.0 or appname -d (or whatever option they use for assigning the display)
Apr 07 21:16:47 <sbromwich> :0.0 on its down doesn't work?
Apr 07 21:17:03 <sbromwich> ^down^own
Apr 07 21:17:47 <phil_bw> well I always use :0.0 myself, dtzWill always said to put the localhost in there
Apr 07 21:17:59 <sbromwich> hmmm, ok
Apr 07 21:19:28 <phil_bw> blah, any idea why the Pre throws itself out of USB mode sometimes?
Apr 07 21:19:45 <sbromwich> in novaterm?
Apr 07 21:20:07 <phil_bw> nothing is open
Apr 07 21:20:12 <phil_bw> or connected from the PC
Apr 07 21:20:32 <sbromwich> I usually get that when I've wedged the pre and I need to pull the battery
Apr 07 21:20:38 <sbromwich> if it's the error I think it is
Apr 07 21:21:01 <phil_bw> maybe I'll just reset it
Apr 07 21:21:05 <sbromwich> generally /var/log/messages will note screwy stuff going on which is the hint for me
Apr 07 21:22:07 <phil_bw> oh well, just restarted
Apr 07 21:22:31 <sbromwich> apt-get install runs
Apr 07 21:22:47 <sbromwich> argh
Apr 07 21:22:49 <sbromwich> kernel compiled
Apr 07 21:22:56 <sbromwich> tweak with debian, or try new kernel?
Apr 07 21:23:05 <sbromwich> scylla and charybdis catch me again
Apr 07 21:23:21 <phil_bw> well you could always just make your modifications and get it compiling again and distract yourself with debian in the mean time
Apr 07 21:23:28 <sbromwich> I suppose I should check if stuff mounts right after a reboot anyway
Apr 07 21:23:31 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 07 21:25:24 <phil_bw> and now it doesn't even want to prompt me for usb mode
Apr 07 21:25:40 <sbromwich> yeah, mine just hung oddly when I told it to go into bootie
Apr 07 21:26:28 <phil_bw> time to do this the hard way
Apr 07 21:29:22 <sbromwich> yeah.
Apr 07 21:29:38 <sbromwich> scuse me while I get brutal on the DC manager's tape backups
Apr 07 21:32:03 <sbromwich> if he's going to insist on running 26 backup jobs off the SAN at once on a uniprocessor box renice 19 is what he gets.
Apr 07 21:32:08 <dtzWill> phil_bw: i /need/ localhost:0.0 in my display env when in the chroot, else :0.0 works fine.
Apr 07 21:32:44 <phil_bw> dtzWill, I always use :0.0 in the chroot and it works fine
Apr 07 21:32:49 <dtzWill> phil_bw: prehaps something is going from with my chroot such that domain sockets don't work
Apr 07 21:32:53 <dtzWill> phil_bw: that's odd :)
Apr 07 21:33:10 <dtzWill> phil_bw: err maybe i'm odd--it's odd that we haev different experiences
Apr 07 21:33:18 <phil_bw> dtzWill, what won't work for me, though, is launching the window manager with the start.sh script (with localhost or not)
Apr 07 21:33:30 <dtzWill> phil_bw: haha that works fine for me x.x
Apr 07 21:33:57 <sbromwich> on a happier note: Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #1 Wed Apr 7 18:09:01 ADT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 21:34:24 <phil_bw> sbromwich, :(
Apr 07 21:34:47 <sbromwich> note the timestamp :-)
Apr 07 21:34:58 <sbromwich> kernel compile came up clean :-)
Apr 07 21:35:05 <phil_bw> oh nice
Apr 07 21:35:27 <dtzWill> sbromwich: congrats :)
Apr 07 21:35:42 <phil_bw> dtzWill, I've added /usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf fvwm -d localhost:0.0 to the very end of start.sh (it just looks at me like i'm dumb when i start it)
Apr 07 21:36:15 <phil_bw> dtzWill, I've also DISPLAY=localhost:0.0 /usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf fvwm
Apr 07 21:37:06 <dtzWill> phil_bw: i'm at a seminar :) when I get home i'll pull up my script and poke at it with you (30-40min)
Apr 07 21:37:38 <phil_bw> dtzWill, no problem
Apr 07 21:37:40 <dtzWill> phil_bw: looks like what i'm running....
Apr 07 21:38:02 <dtzWill> phil_bw: i assume you have everything mounted at this point? what happens when you run the start.sh script by hand? any useful output?
Apr 07 21:38:44 <phil_bw> are you adding that to start.sh in the xorg-server directory or x11 directory?
Apr 07 21:40:54 <dtzWill> phil_bw: I don't remember unfortunately. xorg-server iirc
Apr 07 21:41:13 <dtzWill> phil_bw: i lied, x11, b/c my xterm launcher doesn't launch the wm
Apr 07 21:41:32 <phil_bw> ah, I have it in xorg-server
Apr 07 21:41:35 <phil_bw> maybe I'll move it
Apr 07 21:41:44 <phil_bw> currently testing somethin else so I can't try it yet
Apr 07 21:43:50 <dtzWill> phil_bw: kk. curious why it would matter, but a difference is a difference. still not sure why your DISPLAY=:0.0 works, unless you bind mount /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 or whatever, which you probably would've mentioned if you were :)
Apr 07 21:43:58 <oil> did plugging the hd into 2 machines work?
Apr 07 21:44:59 <phil_bw> dtzWill, aha, that's it.  I do bind /tmp
Apr 07 21:45:28 <phil_bw> I just straight up bind /tmp to /media/cf/tmp
Apr 07 21:47:01 <dtzWill> phil_bw: ah yeah. i guess i'm not? lol
Apr 07 21:47:43 <uNiXpSyChO> sbromwich: does it boot?
Apr 07 21:48:11 <dtzWill> phil_bw: nopers i just grabbed the code off of the wiki, heh
Apr 07 21:48:17 <sbromwich> it booted
Apr 07 21:48:22 <dtzWill> phil_bw: that'll learn me to not think about it myself :)
Apr 07 21:48:25 <sbromwich> now I'm compiling again with preempt enabled
Apr 07 21:48:43 <phil_bw> dtzWill, there is new code on the wiki (added by one phil_bw a few days ago)
Apr 07 21:48:45 <sbromwich> another hour or so and I'll know if it worked ;-)
Apr 07 21:48:48 <uNiXpSyChO> sbromwich: preempt def wont work.  it will boot but the modules will never load :(
Apr 07 21:48:55 <sbromwich> ahhh
Apr 07 21:49:04 <sbromwich> in that case -rt won't work either.
Apr 07 21:49:05 <sbromwich> bugger.
Apr 07 21:49:10 <uNiXpSyChO> -rt might
Apr 07 21:49:21 <uNiXpSyChO> preempt changes things heavily
Apr 07 21:49:23 <sbromwich> -rt need preempt
Apr 07 21:49:29 <sbromwich> +s
Apr 07 21:49:34 <uNiXpSyChO> ohhhhhh
Apr 07 21:49:36 <dtzWill> phil_bw: haha nice :)
Apr 07 21:49:47 <Mousey> yep, greg_roll is still my hero
Apr 07 21:51:12 <phil_bw> dtzWill, oh would you look at that, I added the chroot command to the start.sh script in the x11 directory and it starts right up
Apr 07 21:51:27 <dtzWill> phil_bw: that's odd, now i'm curious. but glad it works for you
Apr 07 21:51:38 * dtzWill wishes this was over already so he could get some work done :)
Apr 07 21:51:50 <phil_bw> I'm at home sick
Apr 07 21:52:12 <phil_bw> luckily the sickness has pretty much worn off so now I can do fun stuff (yesterday I couldn't get off the couch)
Apr 07 21:52:44 <dtzWill> phil_bw: :(. well glad you're on the mend
Apr 07 21:53:32 <phil_bw> dtzWill, thanks, think it may have been food poisoning or something.  Hey did you see how sbromwich is hookin up to Debian on his Pre?  What do you think of doing it that way?
Apr 07 21:54:10 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO: have you tried removing ipsec?
Apr 07 21:54:45 <uNiXpSyChO> not yet.  i remember seeing cisco vpn client or something cisco and vpn on the Pre somewhere
Apr 07 21:55:17 <uNiXpSyChO> i am going to try a hack to get preempt working...
Apr 07 21:55:34 <sbromwich> I use vpnc, all that needs is tun
Apr 07 21:55:53 <sbromwich> disabling some of the congestion control crap too
Apr 07 21:55:55 * dtzWill is packing up, bbl
Apr 07 21:56:13 <uNiXpSyChO> yeah, but i saw cisco somewhere.  and that uses ipsec libraries
Apr 07 21:56:45 <sbromwich> the native cisco client may but it's flakey and doesn't work well and screws up routing on your system
Apr 07 21:56:49 <sbromwich> vpnc is... cleaner ;-)
Apr 07 21:57:04 <uNiXpSyChO> vpnc always disconnects on me. :(
Apr 07 21:58:00 <sbromwich> use --dpd-disable 0
Apr 07 21:58:35 <uNiXpSyChO> tried that.  made no difference.
Apr 07 21:58:53 <sbromwich> ahh, that's what made it work for me
Apr 07 21:59:43 <sbromwich> netfilter amanada backup support?!
Apr 07 21:59:52 <uNiXpSyChO> maybe it was the code on the Altiga.... i meant Cisco Concentrator.
Apr 07 22:00:17 <sbromwich> I'm just connecting to some low end cheapy cisco box
Apr 07 22:00:21 <sbromwich> 600?
Apr 07 22:00:28 <sbromwich> not my gig, not 100% sure on the model
Apr 07 22:01:11 <sbromwich> netfilter tftp support?!
Apr 07 22:01:13 <sbromwich> good grief
Apr 07 22:01:29 <uNiXpSyChO> i didn tempt fate with netfilter
Apr 07 22:02:15 <Mercury> Sadly, vpnc only works with auth variants which are, not horribly secure.
Apr 07 22:02:26 <sbromwich> I can see why some of it would be enabled for tethering but... christ did someone make allyes or something?
Apr 07 22:05:00 <sbromwich> is bridging actually used for anything?
Apr 07 22:05:14 <sbromwich> I would have thought tethering would just be doing a NAT
Apr 07 22:05:21 <Mercury> Yes, but I don't see it being even vaguely useful on a phone.
Apr 07 22:05:28 <sbromwich> and possible ebtables support as well
Apr 07 22:05:45 <sbromwich> ok that's gone
Apr 07 22:06:01 <sbromwich> at this rate I'll have the kernel compile down to 20 minutes and a 512k binary ;-)
Apr 07 22:06:29 <uNiXpSyChO> i can share my .config up load it to git.  its pretty trimmed.
Apr 07 22:07:25 <sbromwich> I just pulled it from /proc/config.gz
Apr 07 22:07:50 <uNiXpSyChO> from mine?
Apr 07 22:08:20 <sbromwich> yeah
Apr 07 22:08:39 <sbromwich> I assume you're the only one who released an 800MHz kernel?
Apr 07 22:09:21 <uNiXpSyChO> hmm.  must have old, cuz i dont compile in the config anymore.  the 800mhz kernel out there is a somewhat bloated kernel to be max compatible
Apr 07 22:10:24 <sbromwich> mar 17, I think
Apr 07 22:10:52 <uNiXpSyChO> old
Apr 07 22:11:04 <sbromwich> like the sandals of jaysus himself!
Apr 07 22:11:08 <uNiXpSyChO> amen
Apr 07 22:11:23 <sbromwich> anything fun added since then?
Apr 07 22:11:45 <sbromwich> rwhitby mentioned noop scheduler which I find helps
Apr 07 22:12:38 <uNiXpSyChO> i recommended noop due to it being a flash device.  cfq will just add latency.
Apr 07 22:12:48 <uNiXpSyChO> deadline might also do pretty good
Apr 07 22:13:38 <uNiXpSyChO> grab a somewhat config from unixpsycho.com/beta-config
Apr 07 22:14:10 <uNiXpSyChO> somewhat new
Apr 07 22:14:14 <Orizzle> lol jaysus
Apr 07 22:14:19 <uNiXpSyChO> ugh...  my brain needs a reboot today
Apr 07 22:14:38 <sbromwich> I'm drilling down through .config iterating over to see how much I can disable
Apr 07 22:14:47 <sbromwich> then I'm going to go in and start adding and diffing ;-)
Apr 07 22:15:18 <uNiXpSyChO> be careful on much you strip.  some things will lead to a bouncing kernel :)  i found out the hard way
Apr 07 22:15:27 <sbromwich> 404 beta-config?
Apr 07 22:15:38 <uNiXpSyChO> hmm.  how did i screw this up
Apr 07 22:15:39 <sbromwich> yeah, I've found that out the hard way... 4 times? so far today :-)
Apr 07 22:15:55 <sbromwich> perms?
Apr 07 22:16:04 <sbromwich> that's what usually gets me
Apr 07 22:16:05 <uNiXpSyChO> try again, i put it in wrong directory on server
Apr 07 22:16:19 <sbromwich> that too will do it ;-)
Apr 07 22:16:24 <sbromwich> bingo
Apr 07 22:17:02 <uNiXpSyChO> it should build for you... but i have some other tweaks in source code... and my build environment is totally different
Apr 07 22:17:31 <sbromwich> compiling already, I have a suspicion CONFIG_FASTPATH is the source of some of the lockups on power button press
Apr 07 22:17:40 <sbromwich> seeing what happens with it disabled
Apr 07 22:17:48 <uNiXpSyChO> brave man :)
Apr 07 22:18:18 <sbromwich> now I know how to do a one shot trial boot it's not that bad :-)
Apr 07 22:18:37 <sbromwich> I was going into this expecting to have to bugger about with dd in single user mode or something
Apr 07 22:18:55 <sbromwich> too much time fighting AIX I guess :-)
Apr 07 22:19:53 <uNiXpSyChO> bosboot
Apr 07 22:20:00 <uNiXpSyChO> shhhhh everyone!
Apr 07 22:21:58 <bpadalino> bosboot ?
Apr 07 22:22:27 <sbromwich> yeah
Apr 07 22:22:48 <sbromwich> I have a 4.3 box that won't take a bosboot because the SSA raid array has lost so many disks
Apr 07 22:22:55 <sbromwich> ergo it won't boot any more
Apr 07 22:23:03 <uNiXpSyChO> i despise AIX
Apr 07 22:23:08 <sbromwich> DC manager wants to power down the whole DC at the end of the month
Apr 07 22:23:15 <sbromwich> I suspect that's one box that won't be coming back up
Apr 07 22:23:17 <sbromwich> *shrug*
Apr 07 22:23:19 <sbromwich> unix is unix
Apr 07 22:23:24 <bpadalino> oh, an aix thing
Apr 07 22:23:28 <uNiXpSyChO> mksysb and pray
Apr 07 22:23:33 <sbromwich> AIX has its quirks, but it's no worse than any other
Apr 07 22:23:41 <uNiXpSyChO> like SLOWaris?
Apr 07 22:23:42 <sbromwich> fine once all the gnu tools are installed
Apr 07 22:24:21 <sbromwich> oh, mksysb is all well and good in its place, but you need a NIM environment to really take control... Bringing a busted server back up into production from bare metal in 20 minutes or so is nice :-)
Apr 07 22:24:40 <sbromwich> slowaris, linsucks, BuSteD, etc
Apr 07 22:24:58 <sbromwich> they all have the advantage of not being windows, of course
Apr 07 22:25:09 <uNiXpSyChO> LOL
Apr 07 22:25:44 <sbromwich> the nice thing about the AIX boxes is they're so over-engineered by IBM that they tend to have uptimes measured in years
Apr 07 22:26:09 <sbromwich> I think the last time most of my prod boxes went down was 3 years ago which HVAC failed in the DC
Apr 07 22:26:43 <nt4cats> sbromwich: the HVAC controller runs windows
Apr 07 22:27:08 <sbromwich> the HVAC controller shorted out and was not redundant
Apr 07 22:27:10 <ka6sox> NT4Embedded
Apr 07 22:27:17 <sbromwich> DC manager got a kick in the knackers for that one
Apr 07 22:27:45 <uNiXpSyChO> NT 3.1 Enterprise Server
Apr 07 22:27:54 <sbromwich> so he's doing a full DC outage this month to get the redundant UPS up and running
Apr 07 22:28:02 <uNiXpSyChO> for those that are old enough to remember
Apr 07 22:28:13 <sbromwich> NT3.1 was blisteringly fast
Apr 07 22:28:17 <sbromwich> so long as the gui was disabled
Apr 07 22:28:37 <uNiXpSyChO> that would make it OS2 ;)
Apr 07 22:28:58 <nt4cats> I am wearing my OS/2 shirt right now
Apr 07 22:29:07 <uNiXpSyChO> oh my
Apr 07 22:29:13 <sbromwich> no, MS had a test version at the time that a friend of mine saw, he watched a webserver benchmark and it piddled all over apache
Apr 07 22:29:28 <uNiXpSyChO> blasphemy!!!!
Apr 07 22:29:32 <sbromwich> this was basically cutler's kernel and not a whole lot else
Apr 07 22:29:47 <uNiXpSyChO> VMS kernel you mean
Apr 07 22:29:51 <sbromwich> not really... it might be better described as "VMS mark 2"
Apr 07 22:29:55 <sbromwich> mmm
Apr 07 22:32:28 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO have you seen http://www.l337tech.com/tips-and-tricks/webos-cpuscaler-application-for-palm-pre-toggles-cpu-scaling/ ?
Apr 07 22:32:40 <sbromwich> $5 to echo > cpufreq settings and run uptime
Apr 07 22:32:50 * sbromwich shakes his head
Apr 07 22:32:59 <uNiXpSyChO> LOL
Apr 07 22:33:09 <uNiXpSyChO> i have seen it, never used it tho
Apr 07 22:33:15 <sbromwich> oh, and make a script in event.d
Apr 07 22:33:21 <sbromwich> and not shot ads (*sigh*)
Apr 07 22:33:27 <sbromwich> ^shot^show
Apr 07 22:33:32 <sbromwich> freudian slip there.
Apr 07 22:33:40 <uNiXpSyChO> people will pay for a pretty gui....
Apr 07 22:33:49 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 07 22:34:09 <sbromwich> friend of mine wants to learn how to program for the pre and was looking for something to do for a for example
Apr 07 22:34:22 <sbromwich> gave him my perl script which does all that and more and told him to have at it :-)
Apr 07 22:35:03 <uNiXpSyChO> i loathe perl
Apr 07 22:35:18 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 07 22:35:23 <sbromwich> I like it, quick and dirty
Apr 07 22:35:36 <ka6sox> emphasis on dirty.
Apr 07 22:35:39 <sbromwich> wouldn't want to write anything major in it but for basic buggering about scripts it's just right
Apr 07 22:35:55 <uNiXpSyChO> only if complex regex is needed
Apr 07 22:36:01 <nt4cats> Python is good for buggering ...
Apr 07 22:36:20 <sbromwich> is python still whiney about whitespace?
Apr 07 22:36:50 <nt4cats> python defines code blocks with indentation
Apr 07 22:36:59 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 07 22:37:09 <ka6sox> you could have to program in ADA.
Apr 07 22:37:12 <sbromwich> that's my reasoning for disliking python, trivial as it may be
Apr 07 22:37:21 <sbromwich> yeah.
Apr 07 22:37:23 <nt4cats> it is pretty handy, no arguments about where to put the curly braces
Apr 07 22:37:30 <sbromwich> at least I'm not likely to have to touch any more cobol
Apr 07 22:37:54 <ka6sox> I learned cobol when I was in college.
Apr 07 22:37:57 <sbromwich> and the as/400 is counting down the days to being punted out the door
Apr 07 22:37:59 <ka6sox> shudder.
Apr 07 22:38:14 <sbromwich> I learned cobol in 1999, which I think says it all right there.
Apr 07 22:38:20 <uNiXpSyChO> i learned cobol in high school
Apr 07 22:38:48 <ka6sox> sbromwich, unfortunatly I learned mine 25yrs earlier!
Apr 07 22:38:57 <sbromwich> I was supposed to learn pascal in high school but I figured out how to get turbo pascal to call my assembler routines instead
Apr 07 22:39:40 <sbromwich> once I had that figured out I decided to see how many different languages I could squeeze into one project
Apr 07 22:39:58 <sbromwich> it worked according to the project spec but for some reason the teacher failed me on it.
Apr 07 22:40:25 <sbromwich> didn't like me using turbo pascal, x86 assembler, quick basic, umm.... I think prolog... and something else
Apr 07 22:40:30 <ka6sox> probably worked faster with the assembly stuff.s
Apr 07 22:40:35 <sbromwich> Oh, C, of course
Apr 07 22:40:55 <uNiXpSyChO> you had an x86?  i had to learn on a DECSystem-20
Apr 07 22:40:55 <sbromwich> not really, it spent most of its time in a busywait loop waiting on the user ;-)
Apr 07 22:41:27 <sbromwich> I had access to x86en at grammar school once I had graduated from using the Z80 CP/M machines
Apr 07 22:41:43 <ka6sox> "what do you mean there is no paper tape reader?"
Apr 07 22:41:48 <sbromwich> *grin*
Apr 07 22:42:04 <sbromwich> "why won't this disk drive move and play daisy?"
Apr 07 22:42:39 <sbromwich> and for another bit of history... I believe Halifax was host to the last remaining multics system
Apr 07 22:42:42 <ka6sox> oh I remember the symphony somebody wrote for 8" disk drives.
Apr 07 22:42:57 <sbromwich> down at the dockyards in the bubble there
Apr 07 22:43:06 <nt4cats> ka6sox: paper tape is before my time (born in '71), but most of the kids here probably have no idea what that has to do with computers
Apr 07 22:43:26 <sbromwich> 2 words: lace card
Apr 07 22:43:33 <ka6sox> ewwww
Apr 07 22:43:39 <sbromwich> and they will make *Someone* go "euw"
Apr 07 22:43:42 <sbromwich> like that ;-)
Apr 07 22:44:15 <ka6sox> I hated it when the PDP8 crashed...we had to toggle in the bootloader on the front panel.
Apr 07 22:44:20 <uNiXpSyChO> ooooh
Apr 07 22:44:27 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 07 22:44:40 <uNiXpSyChO> i remember bootstrapping a DECSystem with another PDP11
Apr 07 22:44:45 <sbromwich> I was mentioning yesterday about how someone should write an app to toggle in opcodes on a pretend front panel
Apr 07 22:44:57 <ka6sox> uNiXpSyChO, ya, that was popular too.
Apr 07 22:45:40 <sbromwich> and I remember justin mitchell at swansea had a PDP8(?) under his bed that alan cox sometimes used for dev work
Apr 07 22:45:40 <ka6sox> I want an app to show the blinky lights we had on the 360/40
Apr 07 22:46:17 <uNiXpSyChO> I want to bring back JCL in 80 columns
Apr 07 22:46:27 <ka6sox> HASP II
Apr 07 22:46:41 <nt4cats> rexx
Apr 07 22:46:42 <sbromwich> I want september to end
Apr 07 22:47:23 <nt4cats> this channel has a remarkable lack of webOS content tonight :)
Apr 07 22:47:47 <nt4cats> my Pre can beat up your Pre!
Apr 07 22:47:50 <sbromwich> follow the history and it ultimately leads to the pre!
Apr 07 22:48:12 <ka6sox> its a diversion into old memories....speaking of which I should find the Core Module I have from the PDP8
Apr 07 22:48:50 <uNiXpSyChO> i think i still have an LA120 in my shed
Apr 07 22:49:28 <sbromwich> ohhhh core memory... I'd forgotten about that
Apr 07 22:49:32 <sbromwich> rattlerattlerattle
Apr 07 22:49:53 <sbromwich> and mercury delay tubes, that's bound to make someone wince
Apr 07 22:50:05 <sbromwich> wire wrapping by hand!
Apr 07 22:50:06 <nt4cats> I'm not complaining about being 'off topic', I like the comradarie
Apr 07 22:50:35 <sbromwich> well, I've got some time to burn while I'm waiting for the kernel to compile for my pre, how's that for on topic? ;-)
Apr 07 22:50:40 <uNiXpSyChO> i hope none of us used punch cards?
Apr 07 22:51:10 <sbromwich> or will admit to it.
Apr 07 22:51:12 <ka6sox> I threw out my last box of punch cards about 3yrs ago.
Apr 07 22:51:23 <sbromwich> Or admit to "accidentally" dropping someone's stack.
Apr 07 22:51:42 <ka6sox> "who would do that"...whistles
Apr 07 22:52:10 <sbromwich> and the old line printer paper with the green lines, never see that any more
Apr 07 22:52:24 <ka6sox> mmmm green bar
Apr 07 22:52:26 <sbromwich> tractor feed printers are pretty rare beasts too
Apr 07 22:52:53 <sbromwich> and for home use... there were thermal printers.
Apr 07 22:53:16 <ka6sox> 40-column Thermal.
Apr 07 22:53:23 <sbromwich> "let's make a printer that uses heat to print! And paper that will fade in heat! No-one will ever put their paper in the sun!"
Apr 07 22:53:23 <uNiXpSyChO> dot matrix
Apr 07 22:53:39 <sbromwich> I can do you one better than that: sinclair thermal printer with interface 1 and microdrive
Apr 07 22:53:50 <sbromwich> there was a combination made in hell by satan's minions
Apr 07 22:53:56 <ka6sox> no kidding
Apr 07 22:54:13 <ka6sox> 143k floppy drives.
Apr 07 22:54:52 <sbromwich> "special" software to format a 360k 5.25" to 450k and then when one came back to read it one couldn't find said "special" software and lost all the data on the disk
Apr 07 22:55:13 <sbromwich> in fact... I think it might have been something ridiculous like 800k
Apr 07 22:55:13 <uNiXpSyChO> 8" floppy drives
Apr 07 22:55:27 <sbromwich> mmmmm... had those on the CP/M system
Apr 07 22:55:33 <uNiXpSyChO> double sided too
Apr 07 22:55:56 <sbromwich> oh christ yes... I'd forgotten about flipping them over in the RM disk box
Apr 07 22:56:19 <nt4cats> tball practice is over, gotta run
Apr 07 22:56:21 <ka6sox> I remember punching out the other notch to make them double sided.
Apr 07 22:56:35 <uNiXpSyChO> oh yes... forgot about that trick!
Apr 07 22:56:59 <ka6sox> dang...now I feel OLD.
Apr 07 22:57:25 <sbromwich> and formatting 720 to 1.44 and crossing fingers it wouldn't go bad
Apr 07 22:57:42 <ka6sox> thankfully I forgot PL/1, Cobol and Snobol.
Apr 07 22:57:53 <sbromwich> being down the 24 hour terminal room at swansea for the whole weekend on an amstrad ppc512 with twin 720k drives
Apr 07 22:58:12 <sbromwich> I was the envy of the room.
Apr 07 22:58:29 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #1 Wed Apr 7 19:53:35 ADT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 22:58:31 <sbromwich> ftw!
Apr 07 22:58:38 <ka6sox> my first "laptop" was a Kaypro CPM machine.
Apr 07 22:58:46 <ka6sox>  with 2 720k drives too.
Apr 07 22:58:46 <uNiXpSyChO> how about washing machine disk drives.... where you had to wait 30 mins for it to run down before you can pull it out.
Apr 07 22:59:03 <sbromwich> oh, with the platters that were 4 feet wide?
Apr 07 22:59:07 <ka6sox> oh yeah...3330's
Apr 07 22:59:08 <uNiXpSyChO> yep
Apr 07 22:59:25 <sbromwich> one of the guys at work has what might be best described as "platters through the years" on his walls
Apr 07 23:00:26 <ka6sox> somebody, somewhere is going to have to resurrect some 9-Track tape drives that speak EBIDIC
Apr 07 23:00:52 <uNiXpSyChO> it was fun mounting those things upright
Apr 07 23:01:33 <sbromwich> palm-webos-device / # free
Apr 07 23:01:33 <sbromwich>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Apr 07 23:01:33 <sbromwich> Mem:        245036     223484      21552          0      13344      57660
Apr 07 23:01:33 <sbromwich> -/+ buffers/cache:     152480      92556
Apr 07 23:01:33 <sbromwich> Swap:       262128         72     262056
Apr 07 23:01:33 * ka6sox is glad it won't be him.
Apr 07 23:01:36 <sbromwich> from cold boot
Apr 07 23:01:44 <sbromwich> with a stripped down config
Apr 07 23:01:50 <uNiXpSyChO> root@palm-webos-device:/# free
Apr 07 23:01:50 <uNiXpSyChO>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Apr 07 23:01:50 <uNiXpSyChO> Mem:        245564     237204       8360          0      17360      51380
Apr 07 23:01:50 <uNiXpSyChO> -/+ buffers/cache:     168464      77100
Apr 07 23:01:50 <uNiXpSyChO> Swap:       131064        176     130888
Apr 07 23:01:56 <uNiXpSyChO> on mine :)
Apr 07 23:02:02 <sbromwich> what's your uptime?
Apr 07 23:02:02 <ka6sox> sbromwich, how big is your kernel image?
Apr 07 23:02:23 <sbromwich> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2252624 2010-04-07 19:56 uImage
Apr 07 23:02:27 <uNiXpSyChO> 5 hours
Apr 07 23:02:36 <sbromwich> 2200kB
Apr 07 23:03:05 <sbromwich> hmm... not too shabby then
Apr 07 23:03:09 <uNiXpSyChO> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root      2008776 Apr  6 20:30 /boot/uImage-2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430
Apr 07 23:03:29 <sbromwich> I have a bunch of stuff that's normally modules that I compiled in statically though
Apr 07 23:03:35 <uNiXpSyChO> oh
Apr 07 23:03:46 <bougyman> y'all are compiling your own kernels?
Apr 07 23:03:48 <bougyman> i want in.
Apr 07 23:03:55 <uNiXpSyChO> i have no modules, except for the binary blobs
Apr 07 23:03:56 <sbromwich> running nbench now
Apr 07 23:04:09 <sbromwich> there were a few scattered here and there
Apr 07 23:04:28 <sbromwich> let me see if they're listed in the old configs I kept... sec
Apr 07 23:05:19 <uNiXpSyChO> before i switched compilers i had a 1.8Mb kernel
Apr 07 23:05:20 <sbromwich> bougyman: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels
Apr 07 23:05:28 <bougyman> danke
Apr 07 23:05:57 <sbromwich> config_sbromwich_nodebug_works:CONFIG_BLK_DEV_NBD=m
Apr 07 23:05:57 <sbromwich> config_sbromwich_nodebug_works:CONFIG_SCSI_WAIT_SCAN=m
Apr 07 23:05:57 <sbromwich> config_sbromwich_nodebug_works:CONFIG_IFB=m
Apr 07 23:05:57 <sbromwich> config_sbromwich_nodebug_works:CONFIG_OPROFILE=m
Apr 07 23:05:57 <sbromwich> config_sbromwich_nodebug_works:CONFIG_CRYPTO_ECB=m
Apr 07 23:05:57 <sbromwich> config_sbromwich_nodebug_works:CONFIG_CRYPTO_PCBC=m
Apr 07 23:06:07 <sbromwich> I thought there were more than that
Apr 07 23:06:12 <sbromwich> oh well
Apr 07 23:06:30 <ka6sox> each kernel module takes 1/2second to load
Apr 07 23:06:33 <uNiXpSyChO> i pulled oprofile
Apr 07 23:06:58 <sbromwich> me too
Apr 07 23:07:15 <sbromwich> interesting... with FASTPATH disabled the launcher is very jerky
Apr 07 23:07:25 <sbromwich> I think FASTPATH does more than check the battery with the RTC
Apr 07 23:07:49 <uNiXpSyChO> ouch
Apr 07 23:08:52 <sbromwich> www.fop.ns.ca/pre/uImage.nofastpath if anyone else wants to try it
Apr 07 23:08:59 <sbromwich> going to try with your config now uNiXpSyChO
Apr 07 23:09:15 <uNiXpSyChO> holy crap
Apr 07 23:09:22 <uNiXpSyChO> my preempt hack worked
Apr 07 23:09:32 <sbromwich> oh ah?!
Apr 07 23:09:41 <sbromwich> what did it involve?
Apr 07 23:09:54 <uNiXpSyChO> root@palm-webos-device:/# lsmod
Apr 07 23:09:55 <uNiXpSyChO> Module                  Size  Used by
Apr 07 23:09:55 <uNiXpSyChO> sd8xxx                244616  1
Apr 07 23:09:55 <uNiXpSyChO> bridgedriver          142164  1
Apr 07 23:09:55 <uNiXpSyChO> bc_example              4344  0
Apr 07 23:09:55 <uNiXpSyChO> omaplfb                 9324  0
Apr 07 23:09:55 <uNiXpSyChO> pvrsrvkm              110264  4 bc_example,omaplfb
Apr 07 23:09:56 <uNiXpSyChO> root@palm-webos-device:/# uname -a
Apr 07 23:09:56 <uNiXpSyChO> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #unixpsycho-1.3.3 PREEMPT Wed Apr 7 18:59:17 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 07 23:10:09 <sbromwich> niiiice
Apr 07 23:10:16 <sbromwich> just a matter of hacking the name?
Apr 07 23:10:23 <uNiXpSyChO> i hacked up some source to pull out preempt module version
Apr 07 23:12:33 <sbromwich> in the kernel source or a binary patch?
Apr 07 23:13:25 <uNiXpSyChO> kernel source
Apr 07 23:13:44 <sbromwich> which file? I looked at preempt.h and couldn't see anything obvious
Apr 07 23:14:16 <sbromwich> vermagic.h?
Apr 07 23:15:02 <Colombia> hello everyone
Apr 07 23:15:12 <sbromwich> evening
Apr 07 23:15:16 <Colombia> i have a question. . . how can i install an ipk from a terminal on my pre?
Apr 07 23:15:51 <sbromwich> ipkg-opt install filename
Apr 07 23:16:01 <sbromwich> or ipkg install filename to get it from the palm tree
Apr 07 23:16:20 <Colombia> don't i have to specify the path?
Apr 07 23:16:32 <sbromwich> no, it downloads and installs for you
Apr 07 23:16:41 <sbromwich> what are you trying to install?
Apr 07 23:16:49 <Colombia> a beta app i was emailed
Apr 07 23:17:04 <Colombia> but i can't install webos quickinstall here at scool :D
Apr 07 23:17:51 <sbromwich> ipkg install file.ipkg
Apr 07 23:18:28 <Colombia> ipkg even tho the file extension is ipk?
Apr 07 23:18:36 <sbromwich> or whatever the filename is
Apr 07 23:18:49 <sbromwich> I would guess it's not called file.ipk either ;-)
Apr 07 23:19:04 <Colombia> haha yeah no
Apr 07 23:20:08 <Colombia> and how do i do a luna rescan again?
Apr 07 23:20:43 <sbromwich> killall LunaSysMgr
Apr 07 23:21:02 <Colombia> thats not a rescan!
Apr 07 23:21:14 <sbromwich> it rescans on restart
Apr 07 23:21:24 <sbromwich> I'm not a gui person I'm afraid
Apr 07 23:22:27 <sbromwich> bougyman: on a side note you might want to read through the last couple of days of irc logs to follow along with my adventures getting the cross-compile toolchain working
Apr 07 23:22:39 <uNiXpSyChO>  sbromwich: back now... sorry.  phone interview
Apr 07 23:22:40 <bougyman> okee
Apr 07 23:22:46 <uNiXpSyChO>  sbromwich: yes, vermagic
Apr 07 23:23:03 <sbromwich> np, ta
Apr 07 23:23:34 <sbromwich> I don't suppose you have a diff to hand so I can be lazy?
Apr 07 23:24:01 <sbromwich> or is it really just sed s/preempt // ?
Apr 07 23:24:04 <uNiXpSyChO> i guess a can make a diff.  i'm lazy right now too
Apr 07 23:24:09 <sbromwich> *grin*
Apr 07 23:24:18 <uNiXpSyChO> just one line, your'll see it
Apr 07 23:24:21 <Colombia> another question. on terminus how do i do the brackets [...]?
Apr 07 23:24:22 <uNiXpSyChO> you'll
Apr 07 23:24:27 <sbromwich> k
Apr 07 23:24:32 <sbromwich> press the SYM key, Colombia
Apr 07 23:24:37 <uNiXpSyChO> line 11
Apr 07 23:25:00 <sbromwich> just make it ""?
Apr 07 23:25:24 <sbromwich> ah yes I see
Apr 07 23:25:34 <uNiXpSyChO> yep
Apr 07 23:25:43 <sbromwich> -rt you *will* be mine! ;-)
Apr 07 23:25:55 <uNiXpSyChO> and you have to disable module version checking
Apr 07 23:26:07 <Colombia> unix do u know hwo to make the brackets on terminus?
Apr 07 23:26:29 <uNiXpSyChO> i am embarassed to say i've never used terminus :(
Apr 07 23:26:54 <Colombia> oh ok. . . no  problem :-D. .  do u know how to do a luna rescan?
Apr 07 23:26:57 <sbromwich> just module unloading and automatic kernel loading?
Apr 07 23:27:14 <uNiXpSyChO> how to do luna?  p0rn?
Apr 07 23:27:23 <Colombia> hahhahahah
Apr 07 23:27:48 <sbromwich> install terminal instead colombia
Apr 07 23:27:57 <sbromwich> SYM brings up all the special characters
Apr 07 23:27:57 <uNiXpSyChO> CONFIG_MODULES=y
Apr 07 23:27:57 <uNiXpSyChO> CONFIG_MODULE_UNLOAD=y
Apr 07 23:27:57 <uNiXpSyChO> # CONFIG_MODULE_FORCE_UNLOAD is not set
Apr 07 23:27:57 <uNiXpSyChO> # CONFIG_MODVERSIONS is not set
Apr 07 23:27:57 <uNiXpSyChO> # CONFIG_MODULE_SRCVERSION_ALL is not set
Apr 07 23:28:22 <sbromwich> ta
Apr 07 23:28:41 <sbromwich> CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IO_TRACE can be disabled
Apr 07 23:29:07 <uNiXpSyChO> i was wondering about that one.
Apr 07 23:29:16 <sbromwich> no cpu frequency scaling?
Apr 07 23:29:40 <uNiXpSyChO> oh, hat config i sent you had no scaling at all.  pure 800Mhz
Apr 07 23:29:45 <uNiXpSyChO> hat=that
Apr 07 23:29:53 <sbromwich> ah ok
Apr 07 23:30:09 <uNiXpSyChO> we are gonna end up with a 512kb kernel!
Apr 07 23:30:11 <Colombia> what are you working on sbromwich?
Apr 07 23:30:40 <sbromwich> I suspect palm's patch could be looked at to tweak out #ifdef CONFIG_FASTPATH for some of the battery checks
Apr 07 23:30:44 <sbromwich> recompiling the kernel Colombia
Apr 07 23:30:57 <Colombia> for what purpose?
Apr 07 23:31:03 <chrisa> You don't want to remove fastpath
Apr 07 23:31:12 <sbromwich> yeah I found that the hard way ;-)
Apr 07 23:31:27 <sbromwich> Colombia: it makes my penis larger
Apr 07 23:31:34 <Colombia> hahahha
Apr 07 23:31:46 <Colombia> no. seriously. . .
Apr 07 23:31:51 <Colombia> please tell me if you can :D
Apr 07 23:32:13 <sbromwich> setting congestion control to westwood+ and disabling the rest
Apr 07 23:32:16 <sbromwich> Colombia: I can
Apr 07 23:32:22 <sbromwich> I've done it... I think 5 times so far today
Apr 07 23:33:02 <sbromwich> netfilter I think all the protocol helpers can go
Apr 07 23:33:13 <sbromwich> screw anyone trying to tether, they can use socks ;-)
Apr 07 23:33:19 <chrisa> Why is every other precentral comment asking about a webos tablet
Apr 07 23:33:32 <zsoc> it's a pretty dumb idea imo
Apr 07 23:33:35 <Colombia> because of the ipad hype
Apr 07 23:33:35 <sbromwich> "comment" match can go
Apr 07 23:33:48 <sbromwich> chrisa: precentral forums are a prime example of sturgeon's law in action
Apr 07 23:33:54 <uNiXpSyChO> socks?  thats old school
Apr 07 23:34:12 <sbromwich> DCCP, DSCP, ESP match can go
Apr 07 23:34:14 <Colombia> what is socks?
Apr 07 23:34:16 <Mercury> It would be a slightly better fit then the iPhone OS, but not much of a better fit.
Apr 07 23:34:46 <sbromwich> statistic can go
Apr 07 23:35:11 <sbromwich> Colombia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOCKS
Apr 07 23:35:24 <sbromwich> ditto time
Apr 07 23:35:39 <sbromwich> oh, and ipsec match
Apr 07 23:36:03 <sbromwich> rest look like they might actually be useful at some point
Apr 07 23:36:07 <sbromwich> or possibly needewd
Apr 07 23:36:27 <sbromwich> ok, next to ipv4 netfilter config
Apr 07 23:36:50 <sbromwich> pretty much all.
Apr 07 23:36:56 <Colombia> nice
Apr 07 23:37:00 <sbromwich> except filtering
Apr 07 23:37:09 <sbromwich> and I suppose nat
Apr 07 23:37:35 <sbromwich> bye bye arp tables mangling
Apr 07 23:37:41 <uNiXpSyChO> you're ruthless
Apr 07 23:37:54 <Colombia> may i ask what is the purpose of recompiling he kernel?
Apr 07 23:37:58 <sbromwich> I've set up too many linux firewalls and done too many iptables scripts
Apr 07 23:38:04 <sbromwich> make it fasta benj
Apr 07 23:38:24 <sbromwich> is ethernet bridging of any use without ebtables?
Apr 07 23:38:36 <sbromwich> I'd be iffy about bridging my home wifi network with ppp0
Apr 07 23:38:41 <ka6sox> is IPV6 used on the unit?
Apr 07 23:38:46 <sbromwich> no
Apr 07 23:38:59 <ka6sox> so that can go too.
Apr 07 23:39:08 <sbromwich> already gone ;-)
Apr 07 23:39:26 <sbromwich> still got the qos stuff enabled uNiXpSyChO ?
Apr 07 23:39:48 <uNiXpSyChO> nope.  gone
Apr 07 23:39:54 <sbromwich> I'll keep the useful stuff and junk the crap (diffserv, I'm looking at you)
Apr 07 23:40:01 <Colombia> how much of an improvement do u expect from removing all these things from the kernel?
Apr 07 23:40:03 <uNiXpSyChO> but you have to enable the parent, then whack everything under it
Apr 07 23:40:46 <sbromwich> yah
Apr 07 23:40:47 <chrisa> Extremely minimal
Apr 07 23:40:57 <sbromwich> have you tried enabling the omap watchdog?
Apr 07 23:41:23 <uNiXpSyChO> hmm.  dont know why you would?  incase of a hang?
Apr 07 23:41:29 <sbromwich> yeah
Apr 07 23:41:47 <uNiXpSyChO> you can try it?  kinda hard to test?
Apr 07 23:41:49 <sbromwich> I'll leave it off for now and test it on the next run
Apr 07 23:42:09 <sbromwich> I learnt my lesson, disabling as much as poss before I start enabling stuff l0(
Apr 07 23:42:22 <sbromwich> 50 minute kernel compiles make one a little... conservative ;-)
Apr 07 23:42:35 <sbromwich> NBD no
Apr 07 23:42:43 <Colombia> wow it takes that much to compile a kernel?
Apr 07 23:42:51 <uNiXpSyChO> he has a 286
Apr 07 23:42:55 <sbromwich> snapshot no
Apr 07 23:43:01 <sbromwich> mirror no
Apr 07 23:43:06 <Colombia> hahaha
Apr 07 23:43:15 <sbromwich> I was running a PIII 600, now I'm on an atom 1.66
Apr 07 23:43:50 <sbromwich> enabling PPP MPPE for anyone doing pptp
Apr 07 23:44:02 <Colombia> oh well. . . i got to go. . have fun everyone
Apr 07 23:44:09 <Colombia> thank you for your help
Apr 07 23:44:35 <sbromwich> np, YAMW
Apr 07 23:45:46 <sbromwich> no posix acl, selinux labels
Apr 07 23:46:07 <uNiXpSyChO> didnt see those?
Apr 07 23:46:20 <sbromwich> ext3 options
Apr 07 23:46:23 <uNiXpSyChO> oh
Apr 07 23:46:25 <sbromwich> instrumentation support no
Apr 07 23:46:34 <sbromwich> kernel debugging no
Apr 07 23:46:47 <uNiXpSyChO> keep intrumentaion parent enabled...  oprofile can go
Apr 07 23:46:48 <sbromwich> magic sysrq no
Apr 07 23:46:56 <sbromwich> what's it needed for?
Apr 07 23:47:25 <uNiXpSyChO> disabling it IIRC will cause a bouncing kernel
Apr 07 23:47:32 <sbromwich> ah fair enough
Apr 07 23:48:01 <uNiXpSyChO> quota support???
Apr 07 23:48:13 <sbromwich> www.fop.ns.ca/pre/config_sbromwich_unixpsycho_preempt_stripped
Apr 07 23:48:18 <sbromwich> oh did I leave that in?
Apr 07 23:48:39 <sbromwich> good spot
Apr 07 23:48:40 <uNiXpSyChO> ya
Apr 07 23:48:55 <sbromwich> www.fop.ns.ca/pre/config_sbromwich_unixpsycho_preempt_stripped2
Apr 07 23:49:06 <uNiXpSyChO> maybe your build will be much quicker now
Apr 07 23:49:26 <sbromwich> only 40 minutes instead of 50 ;-)
Apr 07 23:49:31 <sbromwich> hahahaha
Apr 07 23:49:38 <uNiXpSyChO> lol
Apr 07 23:49:38 <sbromwich> Command exited with non-zero status 2
Apr 07 23:49:39 <sbromwich> 1.63user 0.72system 0:02.44elapsed 96%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
Apr 07 23:49:39 <sbromwich> 256inputs+1632outputs (0major+86555minor)pagefaults 0swaps
Apr 07 23:49:47 <sbromwich> zoomzoom!
Apr 07 23:49:55 <sbromwich> helps if I run it in the right window with sb2 ;-)
Apr 07 23:50:27 <sbromwich> ok, it's off to the races
Apr 07 23:50:27 <uNiXpSyChO> its better than running rm -rf / in the wrong window
Apr 07 23:50:39 <sbromwich> good excuse for me to go get some food, bbiab
Apr 07 23:50:39 <idontwan2know> ~seen nt4cats
Apr 07 23:50:41 <infobot> nt4cats <~wIRCer@173-115-145-248.pools.spcsdns.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 54m 22s ago, saying: 'tball practice is over, gotta run'.
Apr 07 23:50:54 <sbromwich> that's why I touch /-i on all my systems ;-)
Apr 07 23:59:20 <Mousey> ~asl
Apr 07 23:59:21 <infobot> Old enough, yes please, my place.
Apr 08 00:14:43 <sbromwich> 1288.18user 130.19system 23:42.29elapsed 99%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
Apr 08 00:14:43 <sbromwich> 744inputs+212360outputs (0major+9299991minor)pagefaults 0swaps
Apr 08 00:14:46 <sbromwich> waaaay faster compile
Apr 08 00:15:38 <zsoc> interesting
Apr 08 00:16:29 <sbromwich> of course that doesn't mean it's going to boot ;-)
Apr 08 00:17:03 <sbromwich> no, I think it bounced
Apr 08 00:17:38 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Mar 17 23:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 08 00:17:42 <sbromwich> :-(
Apr 08 00:17:47 <zsoc> ba
Apr 08 00:18:23 <sbromwich> gonna try again with preempt disabled to see if I cocked that one up
Apr 08 00:19:36 <zsoc> maybe you dicked it up this time
Apr 08 00:20:10 <sbromwich> choices, choices
Apr 08 00:21:53 <sbromwich> hmmm... since this atom processor is allegedly dual core maybe I can make -j2 for even fasta benj compile
Apr 08 00:22:33 <sbromwich> makes the fan spin up like it's getting ready for takeoff so hopefully it's doing the trick
Apr 08 00:23:36 <phil_bw> sbromwich, yeah I would think you could use -j2 on a dual core
Apr 08 00:23:56 <phil_bw> kinda sucks to figure that out now though after an hour a piece of compiles
Apr 08 00:24:31 <zsoc> sbromwich: you have a dual core atom?
Apr 08 00:24:38 <zsoc> those sound fast
Apr 08 00:24:54 <sbromwich> it says it is
Apr 08 00:25:05 <sbromwich> I suspect it's dual core in the sense of HT
Apr 08 00:25:05 <zsoc> yeah there's only 1, it's like the 510 or something
Apr 08 00:25:09 <zsoc> they didn't put it in much
Apr 08 00:26:14 <sbromwich> itssab@itssab-aspire:~$ egrep 'processor|Atom' /proc/cpuinfo
Apr 08 00:26:14 <sbromwich> processor: 0
Apr 08 00:26:14 <sbromwich> model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N450   @ 1.66GHz
Apr 08 00:26:14 <sbromwich> processor: 1
Apr 08 00:26:14 <sbromwich> model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N450   @ 1.66GHz
Apr 08 00:26:38 <ka6sox> ya, -j2 is your friend.
Apr 08 00:27:02 <sbromwich> -j80 is even friendlier on my work boxen
Apr 08 00:27:18 <phil_bw> I wonder which Atom my wife's netbook has in it..
Apr 08 00:27:37 <ka6sox> sbromwich, unless you become I/O bound.
Apr 08 00:27:39 <zsoc> the N510 is the nice one i think
Apr 08 00:27:45 <sbromwich> this is an acer aspire, fwiw
Apr 08 00:27:51 <sbromwich> disk is fairly inactive
Apr 08 00:28:39 <sbromwich> I picked it upt because (a) it was reasonably cheap and (b) not garishly coloured
Apr 08 00:28:56 <sbromwich> is there *really* a market for excrement coloured netbooks, I wonder?
Apr 08 00:29:06 <sbromwich> better than hot pink, at least
Apr 08 00:29:32 <phil_bw> my wife's is bright red
Apr 08 00:29:48 <sbromwich> I prefer black
Apr 08 00:29:59 <phil_bw> hers only came in bright red...
Apr 08 00:30:07 <sbromwich> actually what I'd *really* like is a laptop with a solar panel on its clamshell to trickle charge
Apr 08 00:30:15 <halfhalo_T400> I wouldn't
Apr 08 00:30:19 <sbromwich> and something like that on the pre wouldn't go amiss either
Apr 08 00:30:26 <halfhalo_T400> it would get to hot
Apr 08 00:30:55 <sbromwich> just on the back of the display panel, not on the bottom of the laptop
Apr 08 00:30:57 <phil_bw> I want to know how many of you really use your laptops/netbooks outside anyhow
Apr 08 00:31:03 <sbromwich> I do
Apr 08 00:31:08 <ka6sox> sbromwich, you would want a ARM Cortex A8 processor then.
Apr 08 00:31:28 <halfhalo_T400> Yeah, even on the back of the display panel it would raise the temps by a crapload
Apr 08 00:31:38 <sbromwich> I keep mine in the frame bag of my bike and hook it up to the pre to do remote admin work on the servers when I'm out mountain biking or whatever
Apr 08 00:31:52 <sbromwich> even though the back is usually black anyway?
Apr 08 00:31:58 <halfhalo_T400> yeah
Apr 08 00:32:08 <sbromwich> interesting, I didn't know that
Apr 08 00:32:21 <phil_bw> sbromwich, hook up a solar panel to your backpack?
Apr 08 00:32:26 <sbromwich> I thought they were relatively temperature neutral, mod the fact they're black
Apr 08 00:32:40 <sbromwich> I have a solar/hand crank radio that gives USB power output
Apr 08 00:32:56 <nt4cats> sbromwich: you were here when I logged in this morning, after dinner, and still here now.  That's a lot of irc for a day
Apr 08 00:32:59 <sbromwich> I tried a solar panel last year but the tech just wasn't there and it failed
Apr 08 00:33:00 <halfhalo_T400> to a point, yes.  Between the colors theres at most a 5C difference in the same location
Apr 08 00:33:21 <sbromwich> nt4cats: I'm signed off work with mild concussion and not allowed to be # at work
Apr 08 00:33:35 <halfhalo_T400> and the amount of time needed to charge it would be insane.  As in, yoy would have to leave it in the sun all day
Apr 08 00:34:10 <sbromwich> yeah, but it'd be awesome for OTG use
Apr 08 00:34:11 <ka6sox> I run serveral NAS boxes on a 42W panel.
Apr 08 00:34:13 <nt4cats> sbromwich: sorry about your noggin, glad to see you're making good use of your time ;)
Apr 08 00:34:29 <sbromwich> heh, thanks ;-)
Apr 08 00:35:01 <ka6sox> sbromwich, ouch.
Apr 08 00:35:01 <sbromwich> I was using... hmmm, it wasn't a solio panel... something along those lines and it just went nuts, it would only charge in the shade
Apr 08 00:35:23 <halfhalo_T400> what would work much better would be a slab battery with a solar panel on it that you can just stick on the laptop to use, and to recharge the main battery, then set in the sun to recharge that
Apr 08 00:35:50 <sbromwich> yeah, I've got a slab battery but it's wall powered, handy for carrying some ergs around with me though
Apr 08 00:36:12 <halfhalo_T400> Meh, I'm quite happy with my 9 Cell as it is
Apr 08 00:36:17 <halfhalo_T400> 10 hours with wifi on
Apr 08 00:36:25 <sbromwich> I know the solar powered radio with a dinky little solar panel can provide enough juice sat on the windowsill to power up my gps from near empty in 2 days
Apr 08 00:36:54 <sbromwich> I'm looking at doing a 1000km ride in summer to places where the nearest people are in the jets flying overhead
Apr 08 00:37:07 <sbromwich> 9 cells ain't gonna last *that* long ;-)
Apr 08 00:37:25 <phil_bw> sbromwich, and I thought you were ambitious with all these kernel recompiles... you have yourself beat
Apr 08 00:37:26 <halfhalo_T400> Heh, then an external panel is your best bet
Apr 08 00:37:48 <halfhalo_T400> and just use that to charge the laptop, then use the laptop to charge everything else
Apr 08 00:37:55 <ka6sox> sbromwich, you need an ARM laptop.
Apr 08 00:37:58 <phil_bw> or slap a generator on your bike and run a quick disconnect cord to your backpack
Apr 08 00:37:59 <halfhalo_T400> like that portable directv reciever
Apr 08 00:38:07 <sbromwich> phil_bw: I don't drive so 1000km isn't quite as much as it might sound to you
Apr 08 00:38:33 <sbromwich> hub generators are iffy, they need a battery in series to smooth out the current
Apr 08 00:38:59 <sbromwich> I don't think they give that much power either... maybe 500mA?
Apr 08 00:39:07 <halfhalo_T400> oh, but if you add in the batteries from one of those electric bike systems your golden
Apr 08 00:39:08 <sbromwich> 1800.21user 183.16system 17:41.70elapsed 186%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
Apr 08 00:39:08 <sbromwich> 264inputs+209336outputs (0major+9463602minor)pagefaults 0swaps
Apr 08 00:39:15 <halfhalo_T400> lazyness AND power!
Apr 08 00:39:16 <sbromwich> har.... saving of about 5 minutes
Apr 08 00:39:39 <sbromwich> electric bike systems won't take the load on my bike
Apr 08 00:39:51 <halfhalo_T400> they will on a flat surfac
Apr 08 00:39:52 <sbromwich> I can have close on half a ton on the wheels
Apr 08 00:39:52 <halfhalo_T400> e
Apr 08 00:40:00 <sbromwich> nova scotia is not flat.
Apr 08 00:40:06 <halfhalo_T400> excuses
Apr 08 00:40:08 <phil_bw> or just skip all this nonsense and hook a bike trailer to your bike and throw a gas generator in it, problem solved :P
Apr 08 00:40:26 <sbromwich> bike trailers won't go where I'm going
Apr 08 00:40:48 <sbromwich> I'm taking some off-road routes through the back country
Apr 08 00:40:49 <nt4cats> sbromwich: every lightining strike has 1.21 gigawatts of electricty ...
Apr 08 00:40:55 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 08 00:41:14 <ka6sox> I put batteries in my son's bike trailer so my wife has more power.
Apr 08 00:42:33 <sbromwich> http://www.fop.ns.ca/bike/2009.09.04_ashlake/imagelist.html
Apr 08 00:42:43 <sbromwich> that should give you a better idea of where I go
Apr 08 00:43:52 <ka6sox> you need a floppy panel + external battery to charge your pre and call it good.
Apr 08 00:44:49 <sbromwich> I have a mini fusion battery that has 500mAh, my plan is to run that in series with the solar radio and charge the pre from that
Apr 08 00:45:18 <sbromwich> then on the 3 occasions I hit civilisation, charge everything up as high as I can
Apr 08 00:46:27 <phil_bw> so I guess my only other question is... what are you going to do with these various electronics when you are 100s of KMs from a cell signal?
Apr 08 00:46:48 <sbromwich> log everything for openstreetmap
Apr 08 00:46:49 <halfhalo_T400> Must.... Resist.... Snarky.... Comment...
Apr 08 00:46:58 <phil_bw> haha
Apr 08 00:47:13 <sbromwich> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.6578&lon=-63.6118&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF was my last obsession byt halifax is pretty much completed
Apr 08 00:47:16 <phil_bw> (haha @ halfhalo_T400 )
Apr 08 00:47:28 <sbromwich> I'm riding roads that aren't listed on maps
Apr 08 00:47:49 <phil_bw> sounds like fun'
Apr 08 00:47:55 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Mar 17 23:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 08 00:47:57 <sbromwich> dammit
Apr 08 00:49:19 <sbromwich> ok, just preempt
Apr 08 00:49:27 <sbromwich> and cpufreq
Apr 08 00:51:36 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO: fail on that stripped kernel, trying again with you config + preempt +cpufreq
Apr 08 00:51:54 <sbromwich> and nice -n -19 make -j3 to flog the bejaysus out of my processor
Apr 08 00:52:07 <uNiXpSyChO> odd that it doesnt recognive preempt
Apr 08 00:52:27 <uNiXpSyChO> my phone hung when running preempt after a while.  i might need to figure out why.
Apr 08 00:52:57 <sbromwich> it was probably something I stripped out
Apr 08 00:53:18 <sbromwich> good grief, this is like being back on 300 baud, ssh is getting so little cpu time
Apr 08 00:53:29 <sbromwich> maybe even 75 bause
Apr 08 00:53:36 <sbromwich> ^bause^baud
Apr 08 00:53:45 <uNiXpSyChO> wake up the screen
Apr 08 00:53:56 * ka6sox remembers 75baud.
Apr 08 00:54:05 <sbromwich> v.23
Apr 08 00:54:09 <sbromwich> acoustic couplers.
Apr 08 00:54:10 <uNiXpSyChO> i remember 300 baud over phone coupler
Apr 08 00:54:13 <sbromwich> pain.
Apr 08 00:54:37 <ka6sox> we had 110baud Teletype ASR33's...they were real slow.
Apr 08 00:54:59 <sbromwich> I could only do v.23 on mine... 1200/75
Apr 08 00:55:39 <phil_bw> man... I grew up in Southeast Alaska, we had 33.6 internet until the day I left in 2001...
Apr 08 00:56:08 <Firefishe> is there a way to install the mojo sdk via downloading it to the pre?
Apr 08 00:56:21 <sbromwich> I was in the etime, charged by the minute for every call including local
Apr 08 00:56:48 <sbromwich> in the UK that was suppose to read but something seems to be... dodgy with my system
Apr 08 00:56:54 <sbromwich> for some reason it's running ever so slow *cough*
Apr 08 00:57:01 <idw2k|wirc> nt4cats: to answer your earlier question, yes, centro batteries work in the pre. they're identical other than the color
Apr 08 00:57:37 <idw2k|wirc> and they can be had on ebay for <$4
Apr 08 00:57:53 <nt4cats> idw2k|wirc: thanks
Apr 08 00:58:29 <phil_bw> nt4cats, I heard that the centro battery differed in a very slight way that affects standby mode, so be careful
Apr 08 00:58:35 <idw2k|wirc> no problem
Apr 08 00:58:51 <chrisa> centro battery sleeps differently, I don't recommend using it
Apr 08 00:59:18 <chrisa> well more specifically, the battery can have problems waking up
Apr 08 00:59:30 <sbromwich>  I've measured the pre drawiIW when plugged into the wall, if that helps
Apr 08 00:59:41 <sbromwich> drawing 3 watts.
Apr 08 01:00:37 <idw2k|wirc> I've spoken with several people who use them with no noticeable effect.
Apr 08 01:00:49 <chrisa> Not noticeable to them perhaps
Apr 08 01:00:58 * chrisa wrote a lot of pixi's charging code
Apr 08 01:01:30 <idw2k|wirc> ahh
Apr 08 01:02:47 <chrisa> Specifically, don't place a battery from a pre/pixi in a centro and then back in a pre
Apr 08 01:03:00 <chrisa> It's correct that it's basically the same battery, but the device interaction is different
Apr 08 01:03:42 <Mercury> chrisa: There's enough smarts in the battery for the device to alter that?
Apr 08 01:04:24 <chrisa> Batteries in these sorts of devices have read/write mechanisms and volatile/non-volatile registers
Apr 08 01:04:37 <idontwan2know> What about a brand new centro battery that was only used in a Pre?
Apr 08 01:04:48 <sbromwich> lithium batteries need smart charging onboard to make sure they're not overcurrented
Apr 08 01:04:55 <chrisa> I believe centro did something to one of the registers regarding sleep and made it unchangeable, but it has been a while so I can't remember exactly
Apr 08 01:04:58 <chrisa> idontwan2know: that is fine
Apr 08 01:05:26 <idontwan2know> Okay, that's what I'm doing...bought a couple new OEM Centro batts for use with the Pre
Apr 08 01:05:49 <chrisa> They're still not exactly identical, I'm not sure if that voids any sort of user agreement
Apr 08 01:05:57 <chrisa> Proceed at your own risk, batteries are fickle
Apr 08 01:06:05 <idontwan2know> Rgr that
Apr 08 01:06:15 <sbromwich> has anyone done any testing on how long any of the extended oem batteries last?
Apr 08 01:06:31 <sbromwich> in terms of runtime, that is
Apr 08 01:07:48 <idontwan2know> I did see something like that on Prethinking
Apr 08 01:08:00 <sbromwich> thanks
Apr 08 01:08:18 <sbromwich> I'll check that out once I get my cpu back ;-)
Apr 08 01:08:59 <idontwan2know> http://www.prethinking.com/home/2009/8/31/test-result-for-amzers-3800mah-extended-battery-for-palm-pre.html
Apr 08 01:09:23 <sbromwich> ta
Apr 08 01:09:47 <idontwan2know> no problem...it's only the Amzer brand, but it's the only rigorous testing I've seen.
Apr 08 01:10:02 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 08 01:10:13 <sbromwich> I'm curious to see how the oem ones stack up against palm
Apr 08 01:10:48 <sbromwich> I have, for example, some duracell rechargeables that say they're 2650mAh but I'm lucky to get 800 out of them
Apr 08 01:10:58 <sbromwich> 2027.40user 198.54system 18:57.16elapsed 195%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
Apr 08 01:10:58 <sbromwich> 176inputs+229328outputs (1major+10246631minor)pagefaults 0swaps
Apr 08 01:11:04 <sbromwich> so much for nice -n -19
Apr 08 01:12:14 <idontwan2know> The battery covers for the extended batteries make them a no go for me...can't deal with turning my river stone into a cinder block.
Apr 08 01:12:28 <idontwan2know> If I wanted that, I'd buy a blackberry.
Apr 08 01:12:53 <sbromwich> ahhh... no-one's come out with one that doesn't replace the back cover yet then?
Apr 08 01:13:13 <sbromwich> I like mine as is, it fits perfectly in my backpack shoulder holster
Apr 08 01:13:27 <sbromwich> Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #2 PREEMPT Wed Apr 7 22:12:00 ADT 2010 armv7l unknown
Apr 08 01:13:31 <sbromwich> win!
Apr 08 01:13:32 <idontwan2know> The 1400mAh ones can use the same back cover
Apr 08 01:13:53 <idontwan2know> But anything bigger than that requires a different cover
Apr 08 01:14:01 <sbromwich> hmmm
Apr 08 01:14:09 <sbromwich> I think I might stick with external battery packs then
Apr 08 01:15:00 <sbromwich> bugger, hang
Apr 08 01:16:53 <sbromwich> althought I *do* like how tellbootie recover can be done as soon as novacomd picks up the device
Apr 08 01:18:34 <sbromwich> ta-dum!
Apr 08 01:18:52 <sbromwich> come on, you're so close now...
Apr 08 01:18:59 <sbromwich> booted!
Apr 08 01:19:51 <sbromwich> bloody hell this is fast
Apr 08 01:20:45 <sbromwich> I thought I had it running quick before, this beats the pants off it
Apr 08 01:21:21 * phil_bw applauds
Apr 08 01:21:29 <phil_bw> nice work buddy
Apr 08 01:21:43 <sbromwich> thanks :-)
Apr 08 01:21:55 <sbromwich> unixpsycho did most of the hard thinking for me though ;-)
Apr 08 01:22:34 <dtzWill> sbromwich: what patches/changes/config are you using?
Apr 08 01:22:39 <sbromwich> www.fop.ns.ca/uImage.preempt.cpufreq if anyone wants to try
Apr 08 01:22:45 <sbromwich> sec, dtzWill
Apr 08 01:23:08 <dtzWill> sbromwich: no worries, just curious :). i want to be able to congratulate you properly hehe
Apr 08 01:23:19 <dtzWill> well and sounds like something we'll all wanna run, but I suppose that depends
Apr 08 01:23:24 <sbromwich> www.fop.ns.ca/pre/config_sbromwich_unixpsycho_beta_preempt_win
Apr 08 01:23:35 <sbromwich> let me see if I can remember...
Apr 08 01:23:46 <dtzWill> sbromwich: i'll just diff'em if you can't :)
Apr 08 01:23:55 <sbromwich> 800mhz + cpufreq ondemand + noop io scheduler
Apr 08 01:23:57 <dtzWill> sbromwich: errr is this the source you backported some of 2.6.25 from/for?
Apr 08 01:24:01 <dtzWill> sbromwich: ooo
Apr 08 01:24:08 <sbromwich> no, this is the stock palm kernel
Apr 08 01:24:23 <sbromwich> there's also a lot of gunk stripped out as well
Apr 08 01:24:40 <sbromwich> I'm convinced there's more that can be removed but there's something making the pre reboot
Apr 08 01:24:43 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO!
Apr 08 01:24:45 <sbromwich> it works!
Apr 08 01:24:49 <uNiXpSyChO> woohoo
Apr 08 01:25:00 <sbromwich> www.fop.ns.ca/uImage.preempt.cpufreq / www.fop.ns.ca/pre/config_sbromwich_unixpsycho_beta_preempt_win
Apr 08 01:25:02 <uNiXpSyChO> i had it working earlier but hng on me
Apr 08 01:25:09 <uNiXpSyChO> hung
Apr 08 01:25:11 <sbromwich> I had it hang on first boot
Apr 08 01:25:30 <sbromwich> I had to go in really early in boot and enabled ondemand with lower min freqs, powersave_bias, etc
Apr 08 01:25:43 <uNiXpSyChO> check the kernel logs to see if you have any oops
Apr 08 01:26:02 <phil_bw> dtzWill, I took that X11/OpenOffice video.  Just need to edit it up and post it now.  I'm sure if it was running on sbromwich / uNiXpSyChO 's kernel it would be even better ;)
Apr 08 01:26:25 <sbromwich> good call, didn't think of that
Apr 08 01:26:48 <dtzWill> phil_bw: do we want to try to fight people asking how to do it? I'm thinking no, we should have a good answer ready.
Apr 08 01:27:11 <sbromwich> nope, nothing obvious :-/
Apr 08 01:27:18 <uNiXpSyChO> wow!
Apr 08 01:27:30 <uNiXpSyChO> i wonder how i crewed mine up
Apr 08 01:27:34 <uNiXpSyChO> screwed
Apr 08 01:27:39 <phil_bw> dtzWill, Install your package from preware, install the debian chroot, done; anymore they can figure it out
Apr 08 01:27:46 <sbromwich> mine hung really early in the boot process first time around
Apr 08 01:27:52 <dtzWill> phil_bw: heh
Apr 08 01:27:58 <sbromwich> system spent some time fscking which might have done it
Apr 08 01:28:12 <sbromwich> I think boot at 500 might be the fix then frig with freq post-boot
Apr 08 01:28:16 <phil_bw> dtzWill, btw this is more of a demonstration of OpenOffice running on the Pre than a general X11 tutorial
Apr 08 01:28:21 <sbromwich> shame as it means slower boot :-/
Apr 08 01:28:25 <sbromwich> maybe boot at 600?
Apr 08 01:28:34 <uNiXpSyChO> thats safe
Apr 08 01:28:49 <sbromwich> but I have to say this is ripping along now
Apr 08 01:28:58 <sbromwich> I can scroll up and down in the launcher *even faster*
Apr 08 01:29:11 <dtzWill> phil_bw: yeah. just i've been sitting on xterm for example, until I could find a way to wrap this all up in some less technically oriented package
Apr 08 01:29:13 <uNiXpSyChO> is this with -rt?
Apr 08 01:29:25 <sbromwich> not even got that far yet, this is just preempt
Apr 08 01:29:37 <uNiXpSyChO> i noticed preempt was smoother but not really faster
Apr 08 01:29:38 <dtzWill> phil_bw: but our discussion the other night kinda went in circles, and I don't have a super clear idea of best way to move forward
Apr 08 01:29:43 <dtzWill> phil_bw: but video is wonderful :).
Apr 08 01:29:59 <sbromwich> I can go get my camera to take a short movie if you want to see how fast ;-)
Apr 08 01:30:10 <phil_bw> dtzWill, I look at this more like a proof of concept than anything more, I'm going to make that very clear
Apr 08 01:30:28 <phil_bw> besides I'm running on stock 500mhz so it runs kinda... slow, it was also the first boot so things ran slower because of that anyway
Apr 08 01:34:08 <dtzWill> phil_bw: well perhaps we should take the video on a faster proc/warm boot, although I'm not super concerned about that
Apr 08 01:34:33 <dtzWill> phil_bw: maybe i/we can spent a short time wrapping up fvwm and such--it'd be sweet if we could break the X news with something people can use
Apr 08 01:34:48 <phil_bw> dtzWill, I was actually looking to demonstrate how actually usable it is at stock 500mhz
Apr 08 01:34:55 <dtzWill> phil_bw: oh nice
Apr 08 01:35:31 <phil_bw> dtzWill, yeah I understand what you mean.  I'll give you the video first and let you decide.  Again, this was really thought of as more of a preview of what is yet to come.
Apr 08 01:35:41 <phil_bw> I really cleaned up fvwm for the video too
Apr 08 01:35:59 <dtzWill> phil_bw: excellent. I definitely will want your help/configs/etc when packaging up fvwm
Apr 08 01:38:59 <phil_bw> no prob
Apr 08 01:41:07 <phil_bw> I'll be back in a sec, the kid is cranky and I'm not sure why
Apr 08 01:41:12 <dtzWill> phil_bw: kk
Apr 08 01:45:55 <ka6sox> sbromwich, I'd like to see that.
Apr 08 01:47:27 <sbromwich> mmmkay, let me see what I can come up with
Apr 08 01:54:39 <sbromwich> might have to trim it down a tad from 140 meg :-/
Apr 08 01:54:51 <phil_bw> sbromwich, what are you using for editing?
Apr 08 01:55:30 <sbromwich> joe
Apr 08 01:55:36 <phil_bw> the video
Apr 08 01:55:40 <sbromwich> oh!
Apr 08 01:55:43 <sbromwich> sorry :-)
Apr 08 01:55:44 <uNiXpSyChO> damn
Apr 08 01:55:46 <uNiXpSyChO> BUG: scheduling while atomic: pulseaudio/1439/0x00000005
Apr 08 01:55:46 <uNiXpSyChO> Function entered at [<a03c6450>] from [<a005c884>]
Apr 08 01:55:46 <uNiXpSyChO> Function entered at [<a005c830>] from [<a035f92c>]
Apr 08 01:55:48 <phil_bw> that'd take some serious skill
Apr 08 01:55:52 <sbromwich> I was just going to use mencoder to squeeze it
Apr 08 01:55:59 <phil_bw> ah
Apr 08 01:56:07 <sbromwich> have I mentioned before how much pulseaudio sucks?
Apr 08 01:56:14 <uNiXpSyChO> it sux bad
Apr 08 01:56:19 <sbromwich> *nod*
Apr 08 01:56:43 <uNiXpSyChO> sounds works but not in all places.
Apr 08 01:56:46 <philydilly> hey guys and gals. iv been looking like forever. well seems forever. is there anywere to download free games. bigger better games .?
Apr 08 01:56:47 <uNiXpSyChO> must not like preempt
Apr 08 01:57:04 <philydilly> for my palm pre
Apr 08 01:58:05 <philydilly> or is it just a lost cause .?
Apr 08 01:58:38 <zsoc> philydilly: buy them from the app catalog?
Apr 08 01:58:51 <phil_bw> philydilly, I think if you want good games you'll have to pretty much pay for them with the exception of quake, duke, etc
Apr 08 01:58:52 <uNiXpSyChO> aint no warez here
Apr 08 01:59:06 <philydilly> i would love to. but back to school and no extra money,
Apr 08 01:59:35 <philydilly> precentral is not to bad
Apr 08 01:59:42 <sbromwich> philydilly: have you considered a games console?
Apr 08 02:00:12 <philydilly> oh i have one of those, but ust something on the phone for on the go
Apr 08 02:00:35 <philydilly> is it true there is a emulator for the pre
Apr 08 02:00:42 <zsoc> philydilly: ask your parents to buy you a $25 visa gift card, register that with your palm account
Apr 08 02:00:45 <philydilly> lke a nes one or snes
Apr 08 02:02:07 <phil_bw> well then
Apr 08 02:02:17 <phil_bw> dtzWill, I
Apr 08 02:02:25 <phil_bw> 'm stitching that video now
Apr 08 02:11:06 <sbromwich> www.fop.ns.ca/800mhzfreqscalenoop.avi
Apr 08 02:11:15 <sbromwich> there you go ka6sox
Apr 08 02:11:30 <sbromwich> note: may contain traces of sarcasm.
Apr 08 02:12:22 <uNiXpSyChO> avi???
Apr 08 02:12:48 <sbromwich> may not be an actual avi
Apr 08 02:13:06 <sbromwich> mencoder DSCF0018.AVI -oac copy  -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:mbd=1:vbitrate=150:acodec=libmp3lame:abitrate=96 -o 800mhzfreqscalenoop.avi
Apr 08 02:13:16 <sbromwich> whatever mpeg4 is these days.
Apr 08 02:13:32 <sbromwich> and, er, for some reason I set -oac copy
Apr 08 02:13:37 <sbromwich> I'm sure it made sense at the time.
Apr 08 02:15:53 <uNiXpSyChO> your preware loads fast
Apr 08 02:16:36 <sbromwich> yeah, the catalogue takes an age though
Apr 08 02:16:41 <sbromwich> too much crap in the palm catalogue ;-)
Apr 08 02:17:29 <ka6sox> looking
Apr 08 02:18:15 <uNiXpSyChO> damn
Apr 08 02:18:21 <uNiXpSyChO> i think i stripped too much.
Apr 08 02:18:22 <sbromwich> um?
Apr 08 02:18:32 <sbromwich> crashing hard?
Apr 08 02:18:54 <sbromwich> oh... did you disable syslogging?
Apr 08 02:19:03 <uNiXpSyChO> i think its pulseaudio causing my hangs
Apr 08 02:19:22 <sbromwich> pulseaudio gets stropped out because syslog writes so much and it can't keep up
Apr 08 02:19:31 <sbromwich> ("it" being pulseaudio)
Apr 08 02:19:49 <uNiXpSyChO> why didnt palm just use ALSA
Apr 08 02:19:57 <sbromwich> edit /etc/PmLog.conf and change all the File= entries to File=/dev/null and killall pnsyslogd
Apr 08 02:20:00 <sbromwich> pmsyslogd sorry
Apr 08 02:20:23 <sbromwich> also edit /etc/fstab and mount /var mode=ordered and /var/log mode=writeback (I'm still convinced that's a thinko on Palm's part)
Apr 08 02:20:54 <uNiXpSyChO> writeback my be dangerous during a random reboot
Apr 08 02:21:15 <sbromwich> yeah, /var is mounted writeback
Apr 08 02:21:18 <sbromwich> that's why I changed it
Apr 08 02:21:34 <sbromwich> my /var/fsck/ had entries complaining /var was corrupted
Apr 08 02:21:41 <uNiXpSyChO> ouch
Apr 08 02:21:45 <sbromwich> I don't particularly give a toss about /var/log though
Apr 08 02:21:59 <sbromwich> on that side I'd rather have the performance gain
Apr 08 02:22:04 <uNiXpSyChO> link it to /dev/null
Apr 08 02:22:11 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 08 02:22:17 <sbromwich> there's a couple of logs I want to keep
Apr 08 02:22:23 <sbromwich> updated.log, for example
Apr 08 02:22:45 <sbromwich> I have a power management script that fiddles the freq according to the activity onthe system
Apr 08 02:22:52 <uNiXpSyChO> ah
Apr 08 02:23:23 <sbromwich> it works but it's more for performance than power gains
Apr 08 02:23:28 <ka6sox> that is fast!
Apr 08 02:23:33 <sbromwich> http://www.fop.ns.ca/pre/pt.pl if you want to play
Apr 08 02:23:41 <sbromwich> I'm sure it can be made faster ka6sox
Apr 08 02:24:22 <sbromwich> oh, and if anyone wants to throw it up on youtibe so the kiddies can have an oggle feel free, just don't include my website address anywhere as it's my machine at home ;-)
Apr 08 02:25:30 <uNiXpSyChO> preempt hates me
Apr 08 02:25:32 <uNiXpSyChO> [   36.900000] [<a02bdce0>] (omap_mcbsp_alsa_pcm_trigger+0x0/0x1c0) from [<a02b31a0>] (snd_pcm_do_start+0x30/0x34)
Apr 08 02:25:32 <uNiXpSyChO> [   36.900000]  r7:00000000 r6:00000003 r5:ae816c00 r4:a04b1234
Apr 08 02:25:32 <uNiXpSyChO> [   36.900000] [<a02b3170>] (snd_pcm_do_start+0x0/0x34) from [<a02b30b0>] (snd_pcm_action_single+0x40/0x7c)
Apr 08 02:25:32 <uNiXpSyChO> [   36.900000] [<a02b3070>] (snd_pcm_action_single+0x0/0x7c) from [<a02b3a48>] (snd_pcm_action_lock_irq+0xa4/0xf0)
Apr 08 02:25:58 <ka6sox> sbromwich, as long as nothing is missing that is necessary faster and smaller is better.
Apr 08 02:26:18 <sbromwich> yeah, I suspect the disk is getting hammered too hard and it's dropping, uNiXpSyChO
Apr 08 02:26:40 <sbromwich> ka6sox: I have my own requirements for "necessary" that may not match the general population ;-)
Apr 08 02:26:48 <sbromwich> wouldn't it be nice to have a TUI instead of a GUI?
Apr 08 02:26:55 <sbromwich> think of the power savings!
Apr 08 02:28:38 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO: www.fop.ns.ca/pre/tnb.pl might give you some inspiration for tuning
Apr 08 02:28:52 <sbromwich> back up /etc/fstab first though
Apr 08 02:30:13 <uNiXpSyChO> looking
Apr 08 02:30:18 <phil_bw> anyone else want to see the openoffice vid? (it's slow and raw, and no naration in a canadian accent)
Apr 08 02:30:28 <uNiXpSyChO> i'll try your syslog hack
Apr 08 02:30:47 <sbromwich> sure, phil_bw
Apr 08 02:32:01 <idw2k|wirc> phil_bw:  yes!
Apr 08 02:35:04 <phil_bw> idw2k|wirc, I don't think wmv will work on the pre
Apr 08 02:35:47 <sbromwich> nice work phil_bw!
Apr 08 02:37:14 <phil_bw> sbromwich, thanks, btw in real world use it's not really that slow, I really should have preloaded everything once
Apr 08 02:37:44 <sbromwich> *grin*
Apr 08 02:37:56 <sbromwich> I'm sure it could be made faster with a little tweaking ;-)
Apr 08 02:38:03 <repnop> hey all
Apr 08 02:38:20 <idw2k|wirc> phil_bw: don't worry about it, I'll check it out tomorrow
Apr 08 02:39:36 <phil_bw> sbromwich, oh I'm sure it could ;)
Apr 08 02:39:37 <repnop> man 1.4.1 caused some weird things
Apr 08 02:40:00 <zsoc> not for anyone in here
Apr 08 02:40:27 <repnop> all pictures taken before the update show up on the usb drive, but any taken after the update don't show up
Apr 08 02:40:33 <repnop> Anyone else seen that?
Apr 08 02:45:31 <zsoc> no
Apr 08 02:46:23 <sbromwich> uNiXpSyChO: are you planning on announcing anything on the forums about 800MHz + pre-empt?
Apr 08 02:47:02 <uNiXpSyChO> no.  you had better luck then me.  with some of your hacks pulseaudio still hates me.
Apr 08 02:50:15 <idw2k|wirc> I wouldn't say anything unless you have a fairly idiot proof install method/instructions.
Apr 08 02:50:51 <uNiXpSyChO> thats not the problem... they are ipk's
Apr 08 02:51:54 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 08 02:52:04 <sbromwich> no, I'll announce it out there as just a raw binary
Apr 08 02:52:14 <sbromwich> it's what I like to think of as a minimalist IQ test
Apr 08 02:52:23 <uNiXpSyChO> lol
Apr 08 02:52:23 <idw2k|wirc> oh...didn't realize it had already been packaged up
Apr 08 02:52:38 <sbromwich> does anyone have a reasonably fast webserver they'd be willing to host the binary and demo video on?
Apr 08 02:52:55 <sbromwich> "packaged" in terms of "make" from ./kernel/
Apr 08 02:53:01 <sbromwich> no ipk or anything.
Apr 08 02:53:58 <nt4cats> sbromwich: youtube will host your video for you ...
Apr 08 02:54:20 <sbromwich> can't be arsed to go through the signup process though
Apr 08 02:54:27 <phil_bw> how big of a file are you hosting here?
Apr 08 02:54:37 <sbromwich> let me check...
Apr 08 02:55:00 <ka6sox> 6.4MB
Apr 08 02:55:37 <sbromwich> around 2 meg for the kernel, 7 for the video
Apr 08 02:56:00 <phil_bw> I'll let you host it on one of my unused domains, it's rather non-descript
Apr 08 02:56:24 <uNiXpSyChO> can i try your uImage?
Apr 08 02:56:27 <sbromwich> thanks :-)
Apr 08 02:56:28 <sbromwich> sure
Apr 08 02:56:42 <sbromwich> http://www.fop.ns.ca/pre/uImage.preempt.cpufreq
Apr 08 02:56:46 <phil_bw> lemme change the ftp info and I'll give you the info
Apr 08 02:56:55 <sbromwich> thanks phil_bw :-)
Apr 08 02:56:59 <phil_bw> np
Apr 08 02:59:25 <uNiXpSyChO> hmm.  i get the same bug with yours too
Apr 08 02:59:52 <sbromwich> try playing with powersave_bias and up_threshold
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 08 02:59:56 2010