**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 10 02:59:57 2010 Apr 10 03:00:00 hopefully I caught it soon enough Apr 10 03:00:12 uNiXpSyChO: Packaged contents of armv7 into /srv/preware/build/hardware/uber-kernel-pre/build/org.webosinternals.patches.uber-kernel-pre_1.4.1-1_armv7.ipk Apr 10 03:00:15 i tired it again as well... maybe a placebo but it seems faster. Apr 10 03:00:28 uNiXpSyChO: no idea if it will install or not Apr 10 03:00:28 no, bugger, try again with a default of noop Apr 10 03:00:30 rwhitby: OMG! Apr 10 03:01:08 uNiXpSyChO: that's using the latest aupt-4 additional_files support that egaudet is alpha testing Apr 10 03:01:09 ooooh Apr 10 03:01:32 but I think we need to add md5sum checking to that if it's not already there Apr 10 03:02:12 now that I have an ipkg built by the autobuilder, I may just replace the kernel on one of my Pre's for the very first time Apr 10 03:02:25 brave man Apr 10 03:02:31 the boot mem method works perfectly Apr 10 03:02:51 not when using ipk :) Apr 10 03:03:46 yeah, this is just for one shot dealies ;-) Apr 10 03:04:44 make mnuconfig Apr 10 03:04:54 that was wrong on so many levels. Apr 10 03:08:14 rwhitby: where is that build? i cant get to it Apr 10 03:09:45 uNiXpSyChO: preware/build.git/hardware Apr 10 03:20:01 precentral is a lot more fun when alcohol is involved. Apr 10 03:20:08 it might explain some of the posts too. Apr 10 03:22:32 you being a troll? Apr 10 03:22:45 that would be just plain wrong. Apr 10 03:22:51 hehe Apr 10 03:27:02 my fav aspect of the phone honestly is precentral's forums Apr 10 03:27:12 wait let me rephrase Apr 10 03:27:20 my fav website to view on my phone* Apr 10 03:27:28 uh just read the irc log Apr 10 03:27:37 sbromwich: what are dentries Apr 10 03:28:19 direcotryr entries Apr 10 03:28:22 uh Apr 10 03:28:28 dirtevoty entries Apr 10 03:28:32 fuck. Apr 10 03:28:39 FAIL Apr 10 03:28:50 http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-linux-filesystem/ Apr 10 03:29:34 oh yeah I am *so* ready to be building lkernels for public aplha rel;ease now Apr 10 03:31:01 you need weeks of testing... *cough* Apr 10 03:31:50 oh yeah Apr 10 03:32:15 weeks of *something*, certainly Apr 10 03:32:22 drinking Apr 10 03:32:36 WFM Apr 10 03:33:03 drinking fine scotch of course Apr 10 03:33:04 I have august off... just looking forward to that :-) Apr 10 03:33:09 but of course Apr 10 03:33:16 no point driknung the cheap crap Apr 10 03:33:19 thanks but if inodes/dentries were messed up wouldn't other stuff be failing gloriously? Apr 10 03:33:43 Robi_: fsck runs durniug boot and will try to clean see I think /var/fsck Apr 10 03:33:55 duting Apr 10 03:33:58 dirng Apr 10 03:34:01 arse. Apr 10 03:34:15 I'm not even gnoing to bother any more Apr 10 03:34:31 Image arch/arm/boot/uImage is ready Apr 10 03:34:35 this should be... fun Apr 10 03:35:07 i do have a RDXD75_fsck_dirty.log.gz Apr 10 03:35:23 gunzic -p | less Apr 10 03:36:05 ls -l n it too to check teh date Apr 10 03:36:06 fail Apr 10 03:36:15 uh gunzip -c Apr 10 03:36:19 on that file Apr 10 03:36:22 apr 8 Apr 10 03:36:27 which is right Apr 10 03:36:33 bongo Apr 10 03:37:40 uh the contents are for jan 11 Apr 10 03:38:08 date is screwty on boot Apr 10 03:38:12 /var recovered journal Apr 10 03:38:33 Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #2 PREEMPT Sat Apr 10 00:32:51 ADT 2010 armv7l unknown Apr 10 03:38:36 rah Apr 10 03:39:00 no errors during forced fsck Apr 10 03:39:33 hmmm Apr 10 03:39:48 then I would wonder why ig wnat ed to fsck in the first place then Apr 10 03:40:57 ah fuck /etc/inti.d/swaphack is fucking with me Apr 10 03:42:03 ohhhhhhh I know what it might be Apr 10 03:42:12 grep var /etc/fstab fro mwe? Apr 10 03:43:10 /dev/mapper/store-var /var ext3 noatime,data=writeback 0 0 Apr 10 03:43:20 bingo Apr 10 03:43:29 s/,data=writeback// Apr 10 03:43:44 .../store-log /var/log ext3 noatime 0 0 Apr 10 03:43:52 I say that is a source of major corruption and causes problemsd on /var but palm disagree with me Apr 10 03:44:00 i'm not following Apr 10 03:44:09 o nm Apr 10 03:44:20 I think /var/log shoukd be mode=writegack and /var should be mode=ordered Apr 10 03:44:22 uNiXpSyChO: cool, drinking Boulder Beer Flashback right now, Think a brown ale with a lot more hops than typical for the style. Apr 10 03:44:22 sec Apr 10 03:44:46 http://batleth.sapienti-sat.org/projects/FAQs/ext3-faq.html Apr 10 03:44:59 "mount -o data=writeback" Apr 10 03:45:01 Only journals metadata changes, and data updates are entirely Apr 10 03:45:03 left to the normal "sync" process. After a crash, files will Apr 10 03:45:05 may contain stale data blocks from old files: this mode is Apr 10 03:45:07 destinal:i cant take too much beer. i have to have scotch or whiskey. Apr 10 03:45:07 exactly equivalent to running ext2 with a very fast fsck on reboot. Apr 10 03:45:14 uNiXpSyChO: they call it "indian brown ale" :) Apr 10 03:45:35 uNiXpSyChO: that's weird because they're both basically made from beer Apr 10 03:45:42 nice idea Apr 10 03:45:47 so you're saying that when preware updated last and asked for a reboot, data wasn't written back before system dropped? Apr 10 03:46:06 Robi_: I think it's like that from facrotry Apr 10 03:46:06 destinal: in barrels ;) Apr 10 03:46:22 I disabled it on mine cos I wnat to keep /var wokring :-) Apr 10 03:46:56 heh ok, so all my chit is lost? Apr 10 03:46:57 a whiskey wash (before fermentation) is basically a beer wort without hops. ferment, distill, and age in barrels. oh yeah, there's some good beer aged in whiskey or rum barrels these days. mmm... I can't drink Budweiser / miller / coors though Apr 10 03:47:05 let me fnish booting here & I'll put pu my /etc/fstab for you to comprae and contraste Apr 10 03:47:18 * sbromwich is with destinal Apr 10 03:47:37 destinal: beer from a barrel must rock! Apr 10 03:48:29 its a science today on how to brew/ferment Apr 10 03:48:45 I used to go to a free house pub in the uk... the had different barrels of beer ni from different breweris every week Apr 10 03:48:49 was *awesome* Apr 10 03:49:07 microbreweries here have an awesome selection Apr 10 03:49:35 like frombroais from a barrely Apr 10 03:49:39 -y Apr 10 03:49:47 nice Apr 10 03:49:55 frembroais? shrug Apr 10 03:50:18 lot of microbrwereies openeing here in halifax.... hope they last the coures Apr 10 03:52:22 yeah, dont run with writeback unless you dont care about data Apr 10 03:52:40 (or have Battery backup) Apr 10 03:52:54 geist: you knwo /var is mounted writeback facrtorty default? Apr 10 03:53:04 <-- drunk pls excuse Apr 10 03:53:24 uh huh Apr 10 03:53:33 k Apr 10 03:53:40 that was against my wishes Apr 10 03:53:49 i thought we resolved that Apr 10 03:53:50 I seem to have preempt + anticipatory working with cmrea Apr 10 03:54:06 yeah /var/log should be writebkac not /var Apr 10 03:54:08 i'm very surprised preempt worked. the omap branch we're using had serious preempt bugs Apr 10 03:54:17 which is why it wasn't on Apr 10 03:54:20 told chris mckillop but he dsiagreed with me Apr 10 03:54:34 told him what, the writeback stuff? Apr 10 03:54:40 amognst other stuff Apr 10 03:54:42 probably because i think we already fixed it. just hasn't been pushed yet Apr 10 03:54:56 i lose track of what we have changed and what has made it into a release Apr 10 03:54:59 since it lags a bit Apr 10 03:55:03 no he thinks kernle deflaut is writeback so its all good Apr 10 03:55:22 dunno what the default is Apr 10 03:55:23 all one long facbook thread so I can't rly cuyt and paste Apr 10 03:55:27 shouldn't matter Apr 10 03:55:29 orderedI think Apr 10 03:55:43 wwtieback wasn't default till 2.6.3something Apr 10 03:55:52 been having issues with my Pre, and just did some poking around and found some files/directories that concern me, antyone know what these are for: /media/internal/.palm/=2UGTK5YY=/=2WWS2Y===/=2WC33F7I=/=2UGTK57EB4YMAW3PIMCMA==== Apr 10 03:55:53 writeback stull bad Apr 10 03:55:56 it is 1.3GB Apr 10 03:56:15 mikepre: dont worry that's your raw crypotfs Apr 10 03:56:26 rum++ Apr 10 03:57:15 getting ready to ptu up my new kernel the scroll works and camrea works so it mstu be production grdea code *Cough* Apr 10 03:58:00 sbromwich: lol Apr 10 03:59:08 its amazing how much the brain can tolerate in reversed letters and myspellings and still understand. Apr 10 03:59:21 you're drunk too? Apr 10 03:59:33 that's what I'm hoping Apr 10 03:59:44 in the UK I would be another name.... Apr 10 03:59:47 very interesting how many people in this channel drink and still irc Apr 10 03:59:54 linxu doesn't seem to like it but thank thesandals of jaysus hisself for tag completion Apr 10 03:59:55 ka6sox: as long as the first and last letter are in place.. it works :P 53 Apr 10 04:00:46 sbromwich: so anything else to try to recover besides doctoring? Apr 10 04:01:21 bpadalino, I'm used to being on irc while drinking Apr 10 04:01:31 Robi_: I think you're frail;y comprehensively screwed and you;'ve exchausted all options Apr 10 04:01:31 very common among my friends and I :) Apr 10 04:01:35 bpadalino: yeah, it's a bad example to the children. if you're going to drink, don't IRC ;) Apr 10 04:01:35 heh Apr 10 04:01:40 I'm of the opinon tis writeback Apr 10 04:02:06 sbromwich, in general writeback is a BAD Idea. Apr 10 04:02:08 sbromwich: then i should take a dd image and bitch to palm Apr 10 04:02:21 *grin* Apr 10 04:02:42 ka6sox: that's why II'm complaining so much about /var mode=writeback being factory default Apr 10 04:02:44 Robi_: did you turn on developer mode? Apr 10 04:02:54 Robi_: if so, you lost your right to bitch :) Apr 10 04:03:06 he he Apr 10 04:03:24 I think I might give plma a call on monday ahnd complain my krenel isn't workjing ;-) Apr 10 04:03:39 doesnt it reset after an update? Apr 10 04:04:19 no Apr 10 04:08:14 there a file that says if its on and when? Apr 10 04:13:32 yep, see the meta-doctor source Apr 10 04:13:35 (I forget which file) Apr 10 04:13:47 spinner doesn't stpo spinning with anticipatrort enabled in preware alpha when updating feeds! Apr 10 04:15:08 sbromwich, thats a good thing(tm)? Apr 10 04:17:38 yah Apr 10 04:17:41 no psauing Apr 10 04:17:46 nice 1411 webos doctor downloading at 1.6M/s Apr 10 04:17:53 1.8M Apr 10 04:18:15 over wifi no less Apr 10 04:18:56 anything else to do before i doctor this thing Apr 10 04:20:02 can someone proofread http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/241081-last-kernel-1-4-0-series-melt-your-phone.html for me just took be waaaay too long to write and rewtie and wreite Apr 10 04:25:41 Firefox can't find the server at www.www,plam.com. Apr 10 04:25:42 *sigh* Apr 10 04:26:06 hahahaahaha Apr 10 04:26:13 www.plam.com = v. apt Apr 10 04:29:35 ok doctoring now.. Apr 10 04:36:17 has anyone worked out how to see the text boot console yet? Apr 10 04:36:53 kgdboe is on my kiust Apr 10 04:37:11 serial mode requires phone takeapart and solder pads to rx/tx Apr 10 04:37:31 how early is kgdboe available? Apr 10 04:37:44 I'm thinking really early boot Apr 10 04:37:51 (is what we need to be able to see) Apr 10 04:38:14 according to the patch as soon as teh kernel is lodaed kgdb should kick in Apr 10 04:38:16 I think Apr 10 04:40:15 * rwhitby notices phil_bw getting drawn into helping folks in the X server thread - he's gonna regret that Apr 10 04:46:11 sbromwich: LOL crazy frog :) Apr 10 04:49:08 no good deed goes unpunished. Apr 10 04:50:27 I figured I'd put the strongest warning I cloud on there :-) Apr 10 04:51:45 sbromwich, I would repeat the warning @ the bottom... Apr 10 04:52:08 "there...you have been warned....2 times even!" Apr 10 04:52:12 good idew Apr 10 04:52:39 fuck got a call Apr 10 04:53:13 now you have to sober up and listen.. Apr 10 04:53:46 vendor fuckup locked out their account Apr 10 04:53:54 muppets Apr 10 04:53:58 easy one this at least Apr 10 04:54:17 * ka6sox likes the term "Muppets" Apr 10 04:54:21 interrupting valiable kernel testing time though Apr 10 04:54:38 tis what we called the numpties at swnasea Apr 10 04:56:08 helps if I remmmbember the hostnames of course Apr 10 04:56:39 and kan typ tehm. :D Apr 10 04:57:17 Can you page the Millennium Unix admin and have him reset the following accounts which are locked out – high priority Apr 10 04:57:19 System Apr 10 04:57:21 Cerner Apr 10 04:57:30 shame there's no accnout name matching that on the system Apr 10 05:06:34 hi phil_bw Apr 10 05:06:44 phil_bw: 'ello Apr 10 05:07:18 ello ello Apr 10 05:07:27 I can't be long, it's bed time Apr 10 05:07:47 you damn europeans keep me up late$ Apr 10 05:07:55 * ka6sox reminds phil_bw of the old adage where no good deed goes unpunished. Apr 10 05:08:09 phil_bw: you're going to get sucked into a vortex of helping people in that X thread :-) Apr 10 05:08:42 * rwhitby never gives someone full instructions - they always have to google something to make it work Apr 10 05:09:53 * rwhitby is going to bookmark http://forums.precentral.net/2365232-post774.html Apr 10 05:10:04 rwhitby: that's alright, I generally only hit that thread when I'm bored, on tthe toilet, etc Apr 10 05:10:16 *sigh* Apr 10 05:10:20 vendors. Apr 10 05:10:35 cant live with them, can't leave thme a smking hole in the ground. Apr 10 05:10:37 anyway, later guys Apr 10 05:10:43 phil_bw: heh - the true use of wirc Apr 10 05:10:45 * phil_bw wanders off Apr 10 05:11:03 yup... Apr 10 05:11:36 locked themselves out of theri own app with its own pw db and want me to reset their account Apr 10 05:11:42 um how its your app? Apr 10 05:12:59 several times over the years I've gotten requests from people to tell them their passwords. Apr 10 05:13:22 had that too Apr 10 05:13:26 and of course I start by trying to explain hashes....then it devolves to 1 word....NO Apr 10 05:13:26 muppets Apr 10 05:13:32 *nod* Apr 10 05:14:07 "we dont keep pw for securiyt reasons it is reset to your acct name now log in so it will force you to chnage it" Apr 10 05:14:48 many years after I left a place I still had an account I could get to on a Cray Y-MP. Apr 10 05:15:00 they *never* cleaned house. Apr 10 05:16:25 ah, I know, I can get the kernel package to patch /etc/issue Apr 10 05:18:14 I still get emails from the place I worked at 5 years ago telling me an uptime record has been rached Apr 10 05:19:12 hmm - actually I need a file that is not in md5sums Apr 10 05:19:32 don't think I've ever seen uptime record above 30 days either Apr 10 05:20:05 uhh my outdated wosqui wont work with the new novacom installed by wosdoc Apr 10 05:20:45 Robi_: if it's not 3.02 or later it will do all sorts of damage on 1.3.5+ too Apr 10 05:28:16 doulby warned Apr 10 05:28:18 nod, 3.02 having issues downlaoding Apr 10 05:28:21 with a reply from caj Apr 10 05:35:02 canuckian internet FAIL Apr 10 05:36:45 can't trust em Apr 10 05:36:54 never know what they'll do next. Apr 10 05:36:56 eh. Apr 10 05:37:06 filebin.ca fail Apr 10 05:38:06 lot of 'net between you and it. Apr 10 05:38:27 you more local? Apr 10 05:38:38 perhaps comcast route is fail Apr 10 05:39:20 somehow i doubt this one is current http://jbstl.com/downloads/Palm%20Pre/ Apr 10 05:39:22 I'm not seeing them either Apr 10 05:39:43 DNS resolves but the site is down...probably a maintainence window. Apr 10 05:39:49 i love it how webosdoc and wosqi never have version info embeded in the frakin filename Apr 10 05:39:56 * Jack87-wIRC forgets the auto complete name for wirc Apr 10 05:40:07 1:39am in TO, sounds about irhgt Apr 10 05:40:21 anyone have a copy to share? Apr 10 05:41:36 caj are you here Apr 10 05:42:17 Jack87-wIRC, not in my list Apr 10 05:42:43 Ka6sox thanks! Apr 10 05:43:53 3.02omg 3x4 icons are horrid Apr 10 05:45:02 how do you auto complete on wirc.. ahh having brain fart Apr 10 05:45:14 orange Apr 10 05:45:28 it was sym-I in terminal Apr 10 05:46:09 was it orange space? Apr 10 05:46:10 gesture orange, right? Apr 10 05:46:16 oh right Apr 10 05:46:20 oil: haha Apr 10 05:46:31 rwhitby: oil: thanks Apr 10 05:46:51 i think it should be changed to like gesture space myself Apr 10 05:47:03 oooh found a link on precentral with a local dl Apr 10 05:47:44 oil: agreeded make it an option ;-) Apr 10 05:47:54 * oil forces his will upon wirc users Apr 10 05:48:11 :) Apr 10 05:48:24 oil: just a joke reffering to the 101 options Apr 10 05:48:39 there will be more for sure Apr 10 05:49:26 * Jack87-wIRC can't think of anymore options Apr 10 05:50:49 Jack87-wIRC, look at the trac, there is a bunch Apr 10 05:50:49 lol Apr 10 05:51:27 oil: slick Apr 10 05:51:32 * rwhitby bl Apr 10 05:51:44 blowing .. ? Apr 10 05:52:39 oil: I ment options ideas (reffering to you have everything but kitchen sink) Apr 10 05:52:52 * oil adds kitchen sink toggle Apr 10 05:53:11 you got the released version though Apr 10 05:53:15 its been changed in the repo Apr 10 05:53:20 the settings are split across pages Apr 10 05:53:53 so there is room for more Apr 10 05:54:27 * Jack87-wIRC jumps into testing feed while drinking his beer @ the bar Apr 10 05:54:33 eh Apr 10 05:54:39 its not there Apr 10 05:54:45 ok i give up wosqi wont connect Apr 10 05:54:54 afaik there is only sparse binaries of the service the new version needs Apr 10 05:54:58 * ka6sox wants a setting for BT Mind Melds so I don't have to even gesture. Apr 10 05:55:07 i had to beg and stab to get a copy for my emu for development Apr 10 05:56:30 oil: that explains why I can't find it haha Apr 10 05:57:49 Robi_, is it after midnight where you are? Apr 10 05:58:04 nope PST Apr 10 05:58:36 oh, a Left Coaster...ya still early here. Apr 10 05:59:06 I was going to say let it rest if its after midnight...I find myself getting too frustrated after midnight to make things work. Apr 10 05:59:38 1min to midnight for me Apr 10 05:59:41 mmm call on call 4 hours at double time for me at this time of the night Apr 10 06:00:04 that'll pay for a new bottle of whisky Apr 10 06:00:17 hic Apr 10 06:00:41 midnight! Apr 10 06:01:14 duh i didn't enable dev mode Apr 10 06:01:28 a simple fix Apr 10 06:01:38 :-) Apr 10 06:01:54 webos060609 ? Apr 10 06:02:16 upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart Apr 10 06:02:32 i'd like the shorter alternative please Apr 10 06:02:43 Robi_: that's so much harder to remember Apr 10 06:02:56 I think it's 09 first Apr 10 06:03:43 Robi_: I really dunno haha longer one is so much easier no thinking required Apr 10 06:03:59 webos20090606 I think? Apr 10 06:04:14 ya Apr 10 06:04:48 haha ya it is sbromwich Apr 10 06:04:49 man this took 30 min to figure out, i haven't done it in so long.. ;[ Apr 10 06:05:23 Robi_: that's why I said upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart Apr 10 06:05:50 time me typing it on pre starting now Apr 10 06:05:55 no Apr 10 06:06:03 upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart Apr 10 06:06:06 :) Apr 10 06:06:08 35 mins Apr 10 06:06:19 oil: damn :( Apr 10 06:06:45 i dont have a good way to access my pre since its on a short leash to the box with wosqi Apr 10 06:07:00 Jack87-wIRC: i think he was correcting me :> Apr 10 06:07:13 30 mins to figure out i needed dev mode Apr 10 06:07:27 Robi_: monoprice for 6ft cable wow best thing ever Apr 10 06:08:06 Jack87-wIRC: no need, i just haven't uncoiled the usb cable i got for free from palm Apr 10 06:08:59 bell wanted me to pay $40 for a spare USB cable. Apr 10 06:09:07 Robi_: humor me and check it out Apr 10 06:09:08 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030307&p_id=4868&seq=1&format=2 Apr 10 06:09:43 you had that ready to paste in on your pre? Apr 10 06:09:44 lol Apr 10 06:09:45 ya, monoprice FTW. Apr 10 06:09:49 it's on back order :( Apr 10 06:09:56 haha no Apr 10 06:10:00 6 feet is way too long Apr 10 06:10:02 I navigated and found it Apr 10 06:10:14 haha this 720 kernel works wonders Apr 10 06:10:31 800 is even better Apr 10 06:10:32 oil you would be surprised! Apr 10 06:10:43 oil, why? not close enough when the smoke starts coming out? Apr 10 06:10:43 800 tweaked is even betterer Apr 10 06:10:45 I use it when I'm in bed! haha then have a few others. Apr 10 06:11:04 Jack87-wIRC, doesnt' need an electric blanket. Apr 10 06:11:09 sbromwich: I'm sure. at the moment I don't think 800 is up to par Apr 10 06:11:10 im just not that far from my pc Apr 10 06:11:29 Jack87-wIRC: it just needs the kernel settings adjusted on a per-cpu basis Apr 10 06:11:48 oil: it's handy for charging or pcs that are on the ground running wire to desk ready Apr 10 06:12:04 I have a nominally bad CPU that won't run solid at 800, tweaking a few settings has it bombing along nicely Apr 10 06:12:10 your desk is 6 feet above your pc? Apr 10 06:12:37 * ka6sox has a picture of that Apr 10 06:12:42 oil no.. I use netbooks... I have a really short 1.5ft cable I use Apr 10 06:12:58 now you use netbooks? Apr 10 06:13:00 but I use 6feet when traveling in hotels and shit Apr 10 06:13:05 lol Apr 10 06:13:27 hehe netbooks! I have 2 :) Apr 10 06:13:45 at times use kvm and two monitors weirdo I know Apr 10 06:14:52 800 with ondemand scheduler is safe Apr 10 06:15:02 1.5 ft goes with me everywhere.. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030307&p_id=5456&seq=1&format=2 Apr 10 06:15:04 most use is at 125 Apr 10 06:15:16 Robi_: not on all CPUs Apr 10 06:15:36 Robi_: mine won't run at 800 for extended periods, I have to tweak powersave_bias Apr 10 06:15:43 sbromwich: did you eliminate flickering and shit while scalling on your kernel Apr 10 06:16:04 define "flickering and shit"? Apr 10 06:16:08 http://forums.precentral.net/2356081-post23.html Apr 10 06:16:16 heh thats yer post ;] Apr 10 06:16:26 mmm Apr 10 06:16:35 sbromwich: mostly for videos and media apps Apr 10 06:16:48 youtube? Apr 10 06:16:53 and mp3 playing? Apr 10 06:18:48 youtube looks fine Apr 10 06:19:57 gangstagrass is playing happily Apr 10 06:20:05 also, the camera works, which was my main aim Apr 10 06:20:16 *with* preempt Apr 10 06:20:26 Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #2 PREEMPT Sat Apr 10 00:32:51 ADT 2010 armv7l unknown Apr 10 06:22:20 anything other test cases, Jack87-wIRC? Apr 10 06:22:27 sbromwich: your latest thread is lulz for sure. http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/241081-last-kernel-1-4-0-series-melt-your-phone.html#post2372874 haha Apr 10 06:22:37 I try my best :-) Apr 10 06:24:20 * sbromwich feeds the trolls Apr 10 06:25:15 sorry sbromwich Apr 10 06:25:18 sbromwich, is typing much beter now. Apr 10 06:25:43 not you Jack87|wIRC ;-) Apr 10 06:25:47 random luna restart. just checked log... video player app also used to have issues and pandora. Apr 10 06:26:12 but if youtube is working you should be good Apr 10 06:26:34 pandora I can't test from canada Apr 10 06:27:06 lol I don't use any of the mentioned apps :-/ was just wondering Apr 10 06:27:39 me either... it took me quite a while just to find where I'd dumped the youtube icon ;-) Apr 10 06:28:10 universal search is my best friend now for that very reason Apr 10 06:28:45 well, scolling through the launcher *does* appear to be the common benchmark test so I wasn't too bothered ;-) Apr 10 06:29:10 sbromwich: haha true Apr 10 06:30:30 I can honestly say I dunno how to install the kernel Apr 10 06:30:51 yours that is Apr 10 06:30:56 do you know how to use novaterm? Apr 10 06:31:03 there isn't an install Apr 10 06:31:04 yup Apr 10 06:31:28 that's the point for dev mode... it squirts over usb into a ramdisk, next reboot the regular on-disk kernel is loaded Apr 10 06:32:05 so you can't fuck up bootie Apr 10 06:32:18 pardon my french :) Apr 10 06:32:20 nup Apr 10 06:32:26 ahh! Apr 10 06:32:32 it's two commands and that's it Apr 10 06:32:56 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Research_Pre_Boot_Process Apr 10 06:33:02 where do you need to place the file Apr 10 06:33:03 * oil didn't hear enough disclaimers about how it will blow up his pre Apr 10 06:33:06 First, log in with novaterm and run tellbootie recover. Wait for the USB logo to appear, then boot the kernel as follows: Apr 10 06:33:08 novacom boot mem:// < uImage-kexecboot-2.6.24-r50-palmpre.bin Apr 10 06:33:22 then you can watch your pre melt into a puddle on the floor while playing crazy frog. Apr 10 06:33:54 * ka6sox will have to try this on a pixi. Apr 10 06:34:26 it would certainly be amusing :-) Apr 10 06:35:11 sbromwich: will it reset to default kernel every reset? Apr 10 06:35:14 * ka6sox wonders how hot the Pixi will get @ 800mhz Apr 10 06:35:30 * oil guesses flaming ball of fire Apr 10 06:35:32 hmmm... starting camera kills mp3 playing, is that supposed to happen? Apr 10 06:35:36 Jack87|wIRC: yup Apr 10 06:35:53 ahhh... just pauses it Apr 10 06:37:14 sbromwich: dunno Apr 10 06:37:36 I think that might be a "feature" Apr 10 06:37:56 sbromwich: so boot phone in recovery mode and run the novacom boo command via novaterm? Apr 10 06:38:11 caj2008: there you is Apr 10 06:38:26 I is great English by the way Apr 10 06:38:33 run novaterm, run tellbootie recover, novaterm will dump you back to the command prompt Apr 10 06:38:35 caj2008: should wget be rewriten to go into tem directory to Apr 10 06:38:56 then do novacom boot mem:// < uImage.whatever Apr 10 06:39:04 still working in detaiils will get back you you oin that Apr 10 06:39:27 SBromowich: you have to respond toi my iphone joke Apr 10 06:39:57 on your thread Apr 10 06:40:03 caj2008: I would of done it that way first but wasn't sure if script required to be in /var/home/root or not Apr 10 06:40:25 sbromwich: I will have to try this when I get hom and sober up Apr 10 06:40:45 figured as much. How much Whiskey? Apr 10 06:40:52 * Jack87|wIRC is at the bar on friday night wircing with booz... Apr 10 06:40:59 if it wedges just pull the battery Apr 10 06:41:02 half a bottle Apr 10 06:41:04 how antisocial Apr 10 06:41:21 haha don't make fun oil Apr 10 06:41:27 it's too busy! ahh! Apr 10 06:41:40 how many apps can people usually load up in parallel before getting too many cards error? Apr 10 06:41:43 I used to work at the bar next door :) Apr 10 06:41:45 ahhhhh! want to see a well thought out humorous response to the dangers of the i....e (can name it or will brick my PC Apr 10 06:41:51 "that guy must be popular, look at all those texts hes writing" Apr 10 06:41:56 "oh, its irc....." Apr 10 06:42:03 sbromwich: 20 w/out 3d games Apr 10 06:42:21 sbromwich: some 3d games hard to open one app after Apr 10 06:42:21 should test on Pre plus Apr 10 06:42:54 10% of alpha testers in last round were Pre plusers..loved it Apr 10 06:43:09 my battery is dying! ahh! Apr 10 06:43:27 Jack87-wIRC, be glad you're not on the unreleased wircd then Apr 10 06:43:40 lol Apr 10 06:43:43 Seideio 2600 1.5 days with moderate use, 1 day with heavy use Apr 10 06:43:46 I managed to get 16 Apr 10 06:43:49 oil: tell me about it Apr 10 06:44:00 itl make your pre catch on fire Apr 10 06:44:01 oil: like really tell me about that one Apr 10 06:44:11 oil: I like fire Apr 10 06:44:26 caj2008: I am not an iphone fan, that is why I made that comment ;-) Apr 10 06:44:26 with the server pinging for a lag meeter Apr 10 06:44:28 its far too fast Apr 10 06:44:35 I like race to pause. Apr 10 06:44:44 caj2008: past hour maybe more I been on wirc with my phone not overheating :) Apr 10 06:45:04 SBromwich: that is why you need to respond ....lol' Apr 10 06:45:07 sbromwich: you are crazy iphone is best I wish I had one Apr 10 06:45:20 iphone is too slow Apr 10 06:45:20 uh oh sacrilege Apr 10 06:45:20 all hale jobs Apr 10 06:45:31 throw up sound Apr 10 06:45:43 sbromwich: I'm only kidding Apr 10 06:45:53 Im not Apr 10 06:46:13 lol Apr 10 06:46:14 Pause Multitasking. Apr 10 06:46:16 * oil wants an iphone so he can be cool Apr 10 06:46:34 * ka6sox wants one for a wheel chock. Apr 10 06:46:34 wow it multitasks now Apr 10 06:46:48 36 c past hour constant use while web browsing and wirc. Apr 10 06:46:51 I threw one out the window once Apr 10 06:46:54 caj2008, no, it will in September or October. Apr 10 06:47:08 these kernels really aren't too bad are they? Apr 10 06:47:11 Im joking Apr 10 06:47:15 its no multitasking - so it will never ever :) Apr 10 06:47:28 jailbreak time Apr 10 06:47:40 caj2008: no it hasn't been released and it's not really multi tasking Apr 10 06:47:48 then I can throw it out multiple windows Apr 10 06:47:56 iphone isn't multitasking for non-apple apps, it's task switching Apr 10 06:47:57 and because jobs says fake is better people believe him Apr 10 06:48:01 Im joking...lol Apr 10 06:48:17 "you're really going to love this" Apr 10 06:48:42 I have been attacked from iphoners from day one, turn around is fair play Apr 10 06:48:53 attacked? Apr 10 06:49:00 yep Apr 10 06:49:07 sounds scary Apr 10 06:49:19 I recommend macbooks to windows users but that's about it Apr 10 06:49:21 They are antiPre cause its competitiion Apr 10 06:49:23 so can iphone apps be ported to pre as iphone games have been via the original devs? Apr 10 06:49:42 I would welcome porting the apps Apr 10 06:50:04 isn't the pdk supposed to allow for porting native apps Apr 10 06:50:20 only apps originally written in objective-c Apr 10 06:50:20 I will then port the iphone iself out the window and with multitasking comes, multiple windows...lol Apr 10 06:50:38 so all the developers for iphone if wanted can add apps to another platform (more money for them) Apr 10 06:50:40 no flash apps allowed on the iphone either Apr 10 06:50:47 Apple people are real zealots Apr 10 06:51:03 sbromwich: jobs says you don't need flash Apr 10 06:51:04 when are we getting flash?? Apr 10 06:51:27 anyone know when we will get flash? Apr 10 06:51:39 before 2012 Apr 10 06:51:47 haha first half of the year? Apr 10 06:51:57 yeah right! Apr 10 06:52:04 that's what they said... so... maybe in 2months? Apr 10 06:52:10 am I sarcastic??? Apr 10 06:52:24 12% batt Apr 10 06:52:35 ]It is amazing what sllep does to make you think clearly Apr 10 06:52:46 got to bust out the spare soon Apr 10 06:52:54 lol Apr 10 06:53:00 I had 8 h today, more than the last two days combined Apr 10 06:53:03 caj2008: I won't lie you were out of it for a bit there Apr 10 06:53:08 you brought a spare battery with you to the bar so you can be antisocial for longer? Apr 10 06:53:16 I was Apr 10 06:53:30 oil: sad I know! Apr 10 06:53:34 get a seideio 2600 Apr 10 06:53:57 caj2008: too big. Apr 10 06:54:09 not to mention touchstone Apr 10 06:54:14 No way..thts the way my wife likes it...lol Apr 10 06:54:23 Jack87|wIRC: once X is up and running rootless it should be possible to run flash through there, possibly in an emulator Apr 10 06:54:25 caj2008: spare batter + old centro as charging unit goes a long way Apr 10 06:54:47 sbromwich: true! Apr 10 06:54:53 true..something to say for the past, why didnt Palm learn? Apr 10 06:55:10 sbromwich: I need to figure out how to apply x programs have x now Apr 10 06:55:22 I'm also going to try to write up a better keyboard scheme Apr 10 06:55:23 I still cant believe I dont hjave a single complete backup solution Apr 10 06:55:25 or though... I think gnash is the open source clone Apr 10 06:55:52 I need office editing something bad Apr 10 06:56:30 * ka6sox points caj2008 to the X thread and video of OOo running on a Pre. Apr 10 06:56:40 anyway folk time to swap batts and maybe go home. Apr 10 06:56:51 lol Apr 10 06:57:06 I was saw veideo yestrerday onm IRC and was blown away Apr 10 06:57:22 Seidio 2600 dude Apr 10 06:58:28 Sbromwich you are always here, how many hours of sleep do yoou get? Apr 10 06:58:30 caj2008: I think your assistance is required on the forums Apr 10 06:58:39 where Apr 10 06:58:45 he's asleep right now Apr 10 06:58:47 I'm on call, lab server bit the dust, I'm waiting for the queue to clear Apr 10 06:59:07 where on forum' Apr 10 06:59:34 THE forum Apr 10 06:59:46 where big place Apr 10 07:00:10 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/241081-last-kernel-1-4-0-series-melt-your-phone.html Apr 10 07:01:30 you are bad..thats what I like about you, perfect for a kernel developer Apr 10 07:01:51 this post brought to you by the letters B, O, F and H Apr 10 07:02:00 lol Apr 10 07:02:07 * ka6sox used to be one. Apr 10 07:02:18 * sbromwich still is Apr 10 07:02:24 I really mdid throw an iphone out of a 10 story building once Apr 10 07:02:48 It didnt survive....sigh Apr 10 07:02:52 although I suppose I really should go down to the office one day to make sure they haven't emptied it out or something Apr 10 07:03:28 I need to focus also more on the real job, just caught up last night Apr 10 07:03:48 I went down last month some time Apr 10 07:04:11 End of May it will get crazy so I am done Apr 10 07:04:17 then Apr 10 07:04:42 yeah!! Apr 10 07:05:00 Robi_, you getting along there? Apr 10 07:05:03 will deploy new toy just before Apr 10 07:05:32 ttyl Apr 10 07:05:55 laters Apr 10 07:05:59 culs Apr 10 07:06:15 I am all doned Apr 10 07:06:19 bed calls Apr 10 07:06:23 niters Apr 10 07:07:24 touch stone in car to the rescue. Apr 10 07:07:36 someone just pm'd me to help them cheat there service provider. I said no way! Apr 10 07:07:37 night Apr 10 07:07:58 jack what% battery now Apr 10 07:08:45 6.. Apr 10 07:08:50 lol Apr 10 07:08:54 lol Apr 10 07:08:56 well fake is 6 Apr 10 07:09:06 4% then Apr 10 07:09:07 right Apr 10 07:09:18 Goodnight everyone! Apr 10 07:09:31 night Apr 10 07:10:05 don't wirc and drive kids Apr 10 07:10:26 in Cali thats illegal. Apr 10 07:10:39 * oil wircs and drives sometimes Apr 10 07:10:56 ut yo Apr 10 07:10:58 * oil only looks at it or responds at lights/stop signs though Apr 10 07:10:59 ka6sox: i have preware working, now just mytether for tomorrow meeting Apr 10 07:11:01 utah to now Apr 10 07:11:44 Robi_, good to see ya got it going. Apr 10 07:12:15 my tether ftw Apr 10 07:13:00 gotta find the linux install instructions Apr 10 07:13:13 * ka6sox wonders where Jack87|wIRC found a bar open this late in Utah. Apr 10 07:14:34 lol Apr 10 07:15:27 hence why I'm driving home Apr 10 07:16:10 no more booz after 1 Apr 10 07:17:22 we used to go over the border to Evanston Apr 10 07:17:58 you from utah? Apr 10 07:18:34 no, I just worked there for a year one month. Apr 10 07:19:01 that's where you get shit that blows up Apr 10 07:19:13 uh huh Apr 10 07:19:26 in logan? Apr 10 07:19:42 we were setting up a dual redundant never stop *nix system to control pipelines. Apr 10 07:20:12 Sandy Apr 10 07:21:20 man wy is long drive from sandy Apr 10 07:21:55 I'm in salt lake :) Apr 10 07:22:22 grew up in cali (your hood) Apr 10 07:22:32 I'm headed to Moab in Sept. probably no service there. Apr 10 07:23:06 I dunno you might be ok Apr 10 07:23:22 I was in la 2 weeks ago :) Apr 10 07:23:28 rats...I need to head to Dinosaur and see if there is NO service. Apr 10 07:23:54 I avoid LA as much as possible...sneak in and out in the dead of night. Apr 10 07:24:08 * Jack87|wIRC made it home Apr 10 07:24:17 whew... Apr 10 07:26:47 okay time for bed here too... Apr 10 07:26:53 wtf Apr 10 07:28:54 goodnight ka6sox Apr 10 07:29:03 I'm still here oil Apr 10 07:29:05 :) Apr 10 07:30:20 did you switch batteries yet? Apr 10 07:30:35 * oil didn't see you log off Apr 10 07:30:48 oil no... my car touch stone came to rescue Apr 10 07:30:53 lol Apr 10 07:30:58 now on home touch stone Apr 10 07:31:18 * Jack87|wIRC searches for x char irc on demonoid for windows Apr 10 07:31:18 huddled over it typing? Apr 10 07:32:10 haha nah.. I'm able to manage lifting and placing back Apr 10 07:32:28 car put Me up to 16% Apr 10 07:32:49 I did put out the warning to kids not to wirc and drive Apr 10 07:37:57 rwhitby, did you ever find how deinstall entries should be handled? re: ticket #17 Apr 10 07:42:49 wait Apr 10 07:42:53 was http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1671&Itemid=279 there before? Apr 10 07:57:13 * Jack87|wIRC fails at windows xchat. Apr 10 07:57:26 * Jack87|wIRC is off ro bed Apr 10 07:57:27 * oil uses it Apr 10 08:11:19 http://i41.tinypic.com/2s0oio5.png :) Apr 10 11:37:59 oil: I've closed #17 Apr 10 11:39:19 oil: also #23 Apr 10 11:49:03 oil: love the multi screenie Apr 10 12:00:52 boy is on call sucking this weekend. Apr 10 12:01:13 sbromwich: so.... Apr 10 12:01:26 all the hard time i've given u.... Apr 10 12:01:46 sbromwich: its not that i am against u doing kernel work and providing a kernel to people Apr 10 12:02:33 i mean that is what i did for years Apr 10 12:02:46 sbromwich: so if u really want to get into some kernel hacking Apr 10 12:03:00 i can start merging some new code into the kernel Apr 10 12:03:24 if u want to be front person for it Apr 10 12:03:26 and make packages Apr 10 12:05:12 PuffTheMagic: I have already contributed code to the mainline kernel, I am not interested in packaging for users, if you want to take my GPL code and repackage it feel free Apr 10 12:05:33 please do not expect any sort of non-irritable response from me as I am short on sleep at the moment. Apr 10 12:06:11 naa i dont feel like doing the packaging, yo u seemed to be doing everything just short of making it easy for people to use your work Apr 10 12:06:27 that is deliberate. Apr 10 12:06:36 now I need to go fix my hospital's lab system. Apr 10 12:06:38 so u just want to be better and show off? Apr 10 12:06:39 again. Apr 10 12:06:49 RTFP Apr 10 12:07:09 just trying to figure out why u are here Apr 10 12:08:36 I am moaning about the sad state of affairs that is my sleep schedule. Apr 10 12:09:10 sbromwich: I'm going to create a stock kernel package too, so people can use it to get rid of any previous kernel installs Apr 10 12:09:22 good idea Apr 10 12:12:02 and we should plan on a "kernel manager service" Apr 10 12:12:04 with a gui Apr 10 12:12:43 with an option to write the kernel to the mem and reboot Apr 10 12:12:48 with out changing the symlink Apr 10 12:12:49 to test Apr 10 12:12:53 then if people like it Apr 10 12:12:57 the can set the symlink Apr 10 12:13:11 or never set a symlink Apr 10 12:13:12 well volunteered Apr 10 12:13:22 that would be pretty simple service Apr 10 12:13:26 if someone wants to do the gui Apr 10 12:13:32 while i bang out the service part Apr 10 12:13:56 rwhitby: has anyone played with schedtool on the pre? Apr 10 12:14:02 sbromwich: nope Apr 10 12:14:18 that was on my todo list once Apr 10 12:14:32 sbromwich: when i first got here i was all kernel ambitious Apr 10 12:14:39 but no one else was Apr 10 12:14:44 and i got sucked into other shit Apr 10 12:14:50 I have lunasysmgr, pulseaudio and the CDMA telephony interface set to "realtime" priority, fwiw Apr 10 12:15:14 PuffTheMagic: how would the kernel manager service handle OTA updates? Apr 10 12:15:40 rwhitby: well an OTA would overwrite the symlink Apr 10 12:15:53 so as long as we stored in prefs what the "preferred kernel" is Apr 10 12:15:59 we could set it if the link is not right Apr 10 12:16:17 makes sense Apr 10 12:16:17 and OTA should erase custom kernels if they have a different file name Apr 10 12:16:29 1 thing we have to work out is Apr 10 12:16:34 PuffTheMagic: OTA wouldn't touch any new files Apr 10 12:16:46 idk if we can change the kernel name though Apr 10 12:16:53 i thought things didnt behave well when i did that Apr 10 12:17:03 module path is an issue, you'd need to do a symlink tree there too Apr 10 12:17:11 right Apr 10 12:17:30 or figure out why changing the kernel version/name makes things go wonky Apr 10 12:17:48 PuffTheMagic: the oneshot write to mem and reboot is a good idea Apr 10 12:18:14 basically, install all the kernel packages you want from Preware, then run the kernel manager to test or enable one at a time Apr 10 12:18:14 yeah i found much nicer when i was testing kernels Apr 10 12:18:51 PuffTheMagic: kernelmgr shouldn't be too diferent from upstartmgr or saverestore Apr 10 12:19:13 (i.e. very simple service architecture) Apr 10 12:19:30 rwhitby: u know i have to add inotify though Apr 10 12:19:46 PuffTheMagic: I know you're just itching for a place to use it, yes. Apr 10 12:20:55 I'm not sure what you'd use it for in a kernel manager though ... Apr 10 12:21:03 monitoring the symlink Apr 10 12:21:10 or new kernels Apr 10 12:21:25 idk Apr 10 12:21:46 it would just read the list on app startup I would expect Apr 10 12:21:52 it's not as if you're going to have a long list Apr 10 12:22:29 well as long as the gui is open Apr 10 12:22:36 it should have an acurate view Apr 10 12:22:49 of the avail kernels Apr 10 12:22:52 and though unlikely Apr 10 12:23:00 they could change after opening Apr 10 12:23:30 rwhitby: but yeah it probably wont need it Apr 10 12:23:42 really simple service Apr 10 12:25:08 webOS Internals: Get Serviced Apr 10 12:25:13 i am surprised we never came up with that one Apr 10 12:26:14 once I've got this stock kernel package built, I might even install a modified one ... Apr 10 12:26:39 rwhitby: you know you want to. Apr 10 12:27:08 I would be curious to know if the camera works for other people on my latest kernel too. Apr 10 12:27:49 I have changed my theory on the cause, I don't think it's IO, I think it's an alignment issue Apr 10 12:29:27 finding the bug is going to mean learning more about the differences between armv6 and armv7 than I really planned, which explains why palm have so many people working on this Apr 10 12:47:57 oh rman how I hate thee, let me count the ways. Apr 10 12:48:12 #1 being me being woken up. Apr 10 12:51:01 shouldn't that be zero-indexed ? Apr 10 12:52:40 quite possibly Apr 10 12:53:18 I have no experience with arm so I don't know how bugs it gets particularly tickled by Apr 10 12:54:43 I thought it was preempt being fixed by using the noop scheduler to not need pre-empt calls in the middle of something difficult but since I compile a test last night with anticipatory and it's running with that I'm not so sure any more Apr 10 12:55:07 geist and chrisa would have some good insights into that sort of thing it would seem Apr 10 12:55:58 tracing down a fencepost type error would be a bit of a sod and I suspect easier for someone with a phone they can solder pads on to get a trace when the phone horks Apr 10 12:56:20 in my CFT kgdboe might be a workable alternative Apr 10 12:56:49 very true Apr 10 12:57:01 kgdboe ? Apr 10 12:57:37 kernel gdb over ethernet Apr 10 12:58:00 blimey Apr 10 12:58:13 I think my boss might take offense to me disassembling my work phone while I'm on call and the labs are going up and down like... something that goes up and down a lot. Apr 10 12:58:39 she gives me a lot of leeway but that might be pushing it. Apr 10 12:59:10 sbromwich: i wonder if you can utilize usbnet with kgdboe to get all the debug output you need ? Apr 10 13:01:59 do you know if the drivers used for usbnet support NETPOLL ? Apr 10 13:02:28 I dunno, I compiled in suppose for the pegasus usb nic I have but havne't dug it out of the basement yet Apr 10 13:03:02 I'm not sure but I wouldn't be too surprised if they didn't since there's the usb layer in the way Apr 10 13:05:54 yeah looking at their kernel patch, it looks like they have CONFIG_KGDBOE_OVER_USB option in there .. Apr 10 13:06:03 oh sweet Apr 10 13:06:06 and define things like void netpoll_eth_over_usb(void) Apr 10 13:06:18 +#if defined(CONFIG_NET_POLL_CONTROLLER) && defined(CONFIG_KGDBOE_OVER_USB) Apr 10 13:06:24 sounds like a goer then Apr 10 13:06:25 need both of those defined for it to be compiled in Apr 10 13:07:46 # CONFIG_NET_POLL_CONTROLLER is not set Apr 10 13:08:09 can't see a mention of CONFIG_KGDB Apr 10 13:08:33 yeah it seems like it's only in the source code :( Apr 10 13:09:11 only get a result when I grep down to KGDB Apr 10 13:09:30 # CONFIG_KGDB is not set Apr 10 13:09:31 # CONFIG_KGDB_ATTACH_WAIT is not set Apr 10 13:09:37 attach_wait looks handy Apr 10 13:10:45 * rwhitby attempts to write a very safe kernel package install script Apr 10 13:10:50 i wonder if it's code cruft that really doesn't work and that's why it isn't anywhere else to be found :( Apr 10 13:11:11 or it's something a developer defines by hand when they compile Apr 10 13:11:17 true Apr 10 13:11:22 sneaky sneaky Apr 10 13:11:27 not really Apr 10 13:11:35 oh .. ok :( Apr 10 13:11:48 kgdboe would hang waiting for a connection so the phone (I think) wouldn't boot up Apr 10 13:12:01 users might find this a sub-optimal situation. Apr 10 13:12:17 indeed they probably would Apr 10 13:14:22 sbromwich: it would teach them to install an alpha kernel though Apr 10 13:14:31 (or not to install one) Apr 10 13:20:07 rwhitby: no this is why it's not enabled by default Apr 10 13:20:15 "it" being KGDBOE Apr 10 13:21:27 sbromwich: right, but we could enable it in very alpha kernels Apr 10 13:27:32 it needs the kernel command line explicitly set with the KGDB host IP address Apr 10 13:27:34 I think Apr 10 13:28:18 so it would hang trying to connect to the KGDB host unless the user happened to have the same IP address at the developer who set up KGBDOE Apr 10 13:29:15 I think it's something I would enable myself with my own local network information and recompile stripped out before I sent it anyway Apr 10 13:29:33 ^way$^where Apr 10 13:30:08 you should be able to run it without issue by not supplying the kgdboe command to the kernel, and only loading it up via bootie, right ? Apr 10 13:33:19 morning! Apr 10 13:34:13 unfortunately, yes Apr 10 13:34:49 bpadalino: I think kgbdoe gets called early in the boot process so I would expect it to go wonky Apr 10 13:35:05 I know if I completely disable debugging the kernel hangs on boot so *something* is in there. Apr 10 13:35:53 sbromwich: i am saying if you don't supply the kgdboe= at the kernel boot commandline, it won't bother waiting or looking for devices .. is that a wrong assumption? Apr 10 13:39:01 bpadalino: possibly yes, possibly no... my suspicion from my overview is it will hang with kgdboe sans IP but ICBW Apr 10 13:39:12 from reading the palm patch that is Apr 10 13:39:24 zsoc|away: kernel overloads. chuckle. Apr 10 13:40:00 oil has really done some nice stuff in this latest set of preware changes Apr 10 13:41:57 anyone know of a patch in email that will auto BCC sent messages? Apr 10 13:42:34 setting lunasysmgr to RT prio seems to have made the spinner smoother in preware alpha Apr 10 13:43:02 or possibly even smootherer, with anticipatory Apr 10 13:43:41 icon updates are particularly fast in the package list - are they cached locally rwhitby? Apr 10 13:44:09 sbromwich: I believe they are only read once per session Apr 10 13:44:49 it normally takes around 4-5 seconds for them to populate for me, from cold they just populated in (at my guess) under a second Apr 10 13:46:30 loved the intro to this thread, "Last kernel in the 1.4.0 series to melt your phone with", hit the nail on the head Apr 10 13:46:38 :-) Apr 10 13:47:10 sbromwich: probably a web cache somewhere in your upstream Apr 10 13:47:19 nup Apr 10 13:47:30 I have a transparent proxy but that's it Apr 10 13:47:42 ohhhh Apr 10 13:47:51 that would be the seeks thing I saw in my benching, I think Apr 10 13:49:41 any other known disk intensive apps? Apr 10 13:50:25 not that I know of Apr 10 13:50:54 Preware Alpha 0.9.60 is now in the testing feed Apr 10 13:51:13 lots of nice new stuff from oil Apr 10 13:51:53 heh Apr 10 13:52:07 preware alpha is my main bench test app ;-) Apr 10 13:53:45 updating now rwhitby :p Apr 10 13:53:53 what sort of new features does it sport? Apr 10 13:54:08 hmm Apr 10 13:54:12 rwhitby Apr 10 13:54:13 the "type to search" in the main screen is pretty neta Apr 10 13:54:14 application probably updated, I am probably restarting it to have a shufti Apr 10 13:54:16 neat Apr 10 13:54:31 I just updated it, and it said "application probably updated" with an option to read the ipkg log Apr 10 13:54:40 yep, you should do so Apr 10 13:54:48 ... was a bug? I thought it was intentional to show it wasn't a dead screen ;-) Apr 10 13:54:53 I did, don't see anything that looks like an error Apr 10 13:55:00 correct Apr 10 13:55:42 when you update Preware Alpha, it needs to install the new version of the service, which means killing the old version of the service, which means Preware never gets the final status back from the call to the service to update itself. Apr 10 13:55:52 Think of it like changing tyres on a moving car Apr 10 13:55:52 ah k Apr 10 13:56:00 so it's by design Apr 10 13:56:04 yep Apr 10 13:56:05 just making sure :p Apr 10 13:56:08 heh the changelog on first launch seems to be the old preware changelog :p Apr 10 13:56:24 yep, but preware 0.9.36 is not released yet Apr 10 13:56:37 gotcha :p Apr 10 13:56:42 preware classic and preware alpha share identical front-end code Apr 10 13:57:15 0.9.60, I can haz. Apr 10 13:57:29 try toggling a feed and going back to the main screen Apr 10 13:57:33 ok Apr 10 13:58:45 so I wanted to contribute a script for save/restore, i thought of sandstorm or lets golf but i see they were added on the last update, all i have left is guitar hero 5 and I don't even care to have it backed up Apr 10 14:00:43 * mjkjr is glad that save/restore came along so fast but bummed that almost every app he has is already supported Apr 10 14:01:04 mjkjr: yeah, that must really suck ;) Apr 10 14:01:32 mjkjr: have you fully tested all the ones that you do have? Apr 10 14:03:00 rwhitby: no i haven't fully tested them, as in I haven't deleted my apps to test restore but may do that today Apr 10 14:03:15 mjkjr: please do, but make sure you have good backups first :) Apr 10 14:03:44 * rwhitby wonders how many people assume save/restore has actually been tested ... Apr 10 14:05:17 rwhitby: will do, going to delete some apps now, install will be tough/long with about 12 3D games Apr 10 14:05:19 what is this testing of which you speak? Apr 10 14:05:41 sbromwich: the one that linus says is for users to perform Apr 10 14:06:07 ahhhh right *that* testing, yeah I see a lot of that at work too ;-) Apr 10 14:06:16 * mjkjr thinks that people assume anything coming from webos-internals has already been thoroughly tested even if the description says otherwise Apr 10 14:06:19 developmestruction ftw. Apr 10 14:07:12 my team is the only one using code repos to track code, everyone else is using a shared network drive. Apr 10 14:07:19 oh the horrors of medical health care :-/ Apr 10 14:08:02 as opposed to non-medical healthcare? :p Apr 10 14:08:03 at least I can roll back my /etc's easily... saved my proverbial last night with proof I hadn't changed anything with an svn diff Apr 10 14:08:11 mjkjr: I can think of one item I'm working on now which is probably better quality untested than something else which has had many alpha testers Apr 10 14:08:12 yeah, VincentLaw Apr 10 14:08:23 that would be preventative healthcare Apr 10 14:08:28 oic Apr 10 14:08:50 which most people don't do, which is why for eg there's an obesity epidemic Apr 10 14:09:16 sbromwich: at my place of work we save all local machine modifications (including those performed by cfengine) in a remove svn repo which is part of the offsite backup Apr 10 14:09:26 *nod* Apr 10 14:09:33 that's pretty close one what I implemented too Apr 10 14:09:45 sbromwich: / is an svn working dir Apr 10 14:09:50 apart from the cfengine bit because IBM has some... delicacies in /etc Apr 10 14:09:58 oooh nice Apr 10 14:10:37 I have /etc in local svn then there's a bunch of apps in /usr/local that get a regular svn update from my dev server Apr 10 14:10:38 want to see what changed? svn status Apr 10 14:10:43 I handle such problems by only writing apps that don't need an SVN to keep track of >.> Apr 10 14:10:45 *nod* Apr 10 14:10:48 rwhitby, curious about this "one item you're working on now" lol. Is the something that has had many testers save/restore, preware alpha, preware, or none of the above? Apr 10 14:11:01 mjkjr: none of the above Apr 10 14:11:12 VincentLaw: there's a new law coming into effect in NS that mandates this sort of stuff for healthcare Apr 10 14:11:12 hmmm Apr 10 14:11:23 I'm the only one not really caring since I've already done the work. Apr 10 14:11:45 that was intended as more of a self-deprecating joke :p Apr 10 14:11:55 *grin* Apr 10 14:12:31 I won't even mention the kiddies throwing their toys out of the pram when I force them to use ssh then disable telnet/ftp Apr 10 14:12:54 sbromwich: I'm putting config and System.map in the kernel packages too Apr 10 14:13:14 having a phone that I can vpn in and ssh into the servers with blows their minds too Apr 10 14:13:20 * sbromwich feels the pre love Apr 10 14:13:49 apparently the iphone's SSH client doesn't support certain keys like... escape, and thus is useless for vim? Apr 10 14:13:54 had a manager call me yesterday to find out "what's this new phone that works better than the blackberry that you've got?" for his sybase dba Apr 10 14:14:02 uh oops Apr 10 14:14:03 * mjkjr is deleting his apps now to further test save/restore. Scary, lol... Apr 10 14:14:42 mjkjr: someone's gotta do it - better you than me Apr 10 14:14:53 =) Apr 10 14:15:25 I already tested my app, figured it was the responsible thing to do >.> Apr 10 14:15:40 VincentLaw: what is your app? Apr 10 14:16:32 rwhitby: did you ever get a chance to rty that configassisstnat js diff with the regex to filter out bad chars? Apr 10 14:16:40 sbromwich: nope Apr 10 14:16:53 mjkjr: Sorrowind Slots Apr 10 14:17:18 k Apr 10 14:17:28 " I, for one, accept our new kernel building overlords. " Apr 10 14:17:29 bahahahaah Apr 10 14:18:13 what's the latest developments with the kernel stuff anyway Apr 10 14:18:23 been avoidin that one thread with all the drama Apr 10 14:19:03 palm disabled preempt because it killed the camera, I have a kernel with 800mhz + preempt +anticipatory scheduler and stuff that works with the camera Apr 10 14:19:19 also passes Jack87|wIRC's test cases of youtube playing and music playing Apr 10 14:19:38 oh nice Apr 10 14:20:01 is it still in horridly-unfriendly-to-install testing? :p Apr 10 14:22:06 VincentLaw: I'm working on proper kernel packaging right now as it happens Apr 10 14:22:26 rwhitby is up late Apr 10 14:22:56 bpadalino: not midnight yet, we went off daylight saving Apr 10 14:23:04 ah Apr 10 14:24:51 i still think of the band Midnight Oil whenever you are on when it's morning for me Apr 10 14:25:08 bpadalino: my laptop is named after midnight oil Apr 10 14:25:31 what did you name it ? Apr 10 14:28:41 midnight oil? :p Apr 10 14:28:55 australian band Apr 10 14:29:04 Eskimo Joe? Apr 10 14:29:08 only aussie band I know :p Apr 10 14:29:15 big hit in he US was Beds Are Burning Apr 10 14:29:43 bpadalino: oils Apr 10 14:29:54 excellent Apr 10 14:30:14 bpadalino: that's been the name of my main computer since 1989 Apr 10 14:31:24 (probably about 10 different pieces of hardware) Apr 10 14:31:26 longtime fan Apr 10 14:31:35 did you see them in concert ? Apr 10 14:31:44 Packaged contents of armv7 into /srv/preware/build/hardware/palm-kernel-pre/build/org.webosinternals.kernels.palm-kerne Apr 10 14:31:45 l-pre_1.4.1-1_armv7.ipk Apr 10 14:32:00 bpadalino: yep, a number of times Apr 10 14:32:19 nice about the ipk Apr 10 14:35:26 * mjkjr has removed Dr. Podder hb, Hawx, News Room, Sandstorm, and Asphalt 5. Save/Restore don't fail me now =) Apr 10 14:36:00 looking for a critical review of http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=hardware/postinst.kernel Apr 10 14:36:29 (PID gets set as the appid - in this case org.webosinternals.kernels.palm-kernel-pre Apr 10 14:37:03 hmm - just spotted that the /boot remount has to happen always Apr 10 14:38:30 unset PID Apr 10 14:38:33 not PID= Apr 10 14:38:43 * mjkjr has to reboot machice from ubuntu to vista, brb Apr 10 14:38:44 sbromwich: no, a sed script changes that Apr 10 14:39:06 ah ok fair enough Apr 10 14:39:10 sed -e 's|PID=|PID="${APP_ID}"|' ../postinst.kernel > $@ Apr 10 14:39:47 this same postinst is currently used for the uber kernel and the palm kernel Apr 10 14:40:34 IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT doesn't seem to be used anywhere else and I don't see any scripts being called that might inherit it Apr 10 14:40:45 sbromwich: yeah, that's boilerplate at the top Apr 10 14:41:24 SRCDIR=$APPS/ shouldn't that be SRCDIR=${APPS}/ just in case? Apr 10 14:41:33 * sbromwich has been bitten too hard by ksh in the past Apr 10 14:41:51 sbromwich: like http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/saverestore.git;a=blob;f=control/postinst Apr 10 14:43:09 looks good though... I like the error checking Apr 10 14:43:29 only comment would be maybe different error numbers to report back so you know where it failed when a user complains? Apr 10 14:44:23 yeah, good idea Apr 10 14:44:47 rwhitby: alpha seems to be working well Apr 10 14:45:01 * mjkjr forgot how long it takes to download and install a 200mb game Apr 10 14:45:06 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/saverestore.git;a=blob;f=control/postinst doesn't seem to remount / rw before doing rm -f /etc/event/.... is that a safety catch to make sure the developer tests their script first? Apr 10 14:45:24 * mjkjr thanks rwhitby =) Apr 10 14:45:30 I ran into this odd bug where the data I searched for in list of everything was persistent across feed updates, but it won't do it again Apr 10 14:47:00 sbromwich: if IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT is defined, then the installer has already done that Apr 10 14:47:12 ah ok Apr 10 14:47:32 sbromwich: eventually, all instances of /etc/event.d will be replaced by /var/palm/event.d/ and no more rw needed for service installs Apr 10 14:47:39 jeez I think there's a tropical storm passing over, back in a bit, gotta go tie everyuthing outdoors down Apr 10 14:50:49 sbromwich: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=hardware/postinst.kernel;hb=HEAD Apr 10 14:51:13 second time this week I stepped outdoors. regretted it again. Apr 10 14:51:57 ok, now to test this script Apr 10 14:52:45 * rwhitby grabs "Expendable Pre" Apr 10 14:53:00 looks clean Apr 10 14:53:54 maybe use logger to log to syslog as well? Apr 10 14:54:14 then you could tell a user just to pull /var/log/messages off Apr 10 14:54:34 oops Apr 10 14:54:47 or run the script 2>&1 > /media/internal/preware.log? Apr 10 14:55:10 !good? Apr 10 14:55:37 good thing I did that backup.tar.gz :-) Apr 10 14:55:41 *grin* Apr 10 14:55:42 !good?redo:release; Apr 10 14:55:52 belt and braces ftw Apr 10 14:56:13 forgot to comment out the rm of the target file Apr 10 14:56:55 line 58 Apr 10 14:57:08 good thing I didn't reboot ;) Apr 10 14:57:22 how do I move crytofs folders to usb? Apr 10 14:57:29 rsync Apr 10 14:57:33 where does STDERR go? Apr 10 14:58:05 ( cd /media/cryptofs && tar -cf - ./ ) | ( cd /media/internal && tar -xvf - ) Apr 10 14:58:41 or ( cd /media/cryptofs && tar -cf - ./ ) | ( cat > /media/internal/cryptofs.tar) Apr 10 14:58:49 depending on exactly what you're trying to do Apr 10 14:59:00 ok, now to start from the end of this script and check every error condition first Apr 10 14:59:27 I mean not move but copy a crytofs folder Apr 10 14:59:38 so did I Apr 10 15:00:19 the first tar outputs to stdout, then the cat / tar it is piped to reads from stdin Apr 10 15:01:03 first will copy the whole directory structure and dump it on /media/internal, second will just save it in a tarball for ease of transferring to another system Apr 10 15:01:37 if you move the cryptofs folders your phone will break in amusing ways Apr 10 15:02:06 sbromwich: you got no sleep! Apr 10 15:02:13 Jack87|wIRC: I know. Apr 10 15:02:22 so if I want to copy media/crytofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/ Apr 10 15:02:23 Jack87|wIRC: that's the price of being on call. Apr 10 15:02:32 morning all! Apr 10 15:02:37 on the upside I'm now into triple time Apr 10 15:02:48 more whisky. Apr 10 15:03:17 LongWolf: ( cd media/crytofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/ && tar -cf - ./ ) | ( cd /media/internal && tar -xvf - ) Apr 10 15:03:52 reading the back log.... instead of having different packages for different kernels would it be nice to simply use a kernel mannager to download desired kernels?s Apr 10 15:04:34 simply have a kernel repo that the kernel manager access not preware (and kernel manager is found on preware) Apr 10 15:04:46 alrigt Apr 10 15:04:56 bpadalino: make sure you put spacing before and after your ternary operators so rod doesn't freak out on you ;) Apr 10 15:05:06 zsoc :) Apr 10 15:05:21 zsoc_wirc: it's not just me. linus would too Apr 10 15:05:31 I guess it doesn't matter with preware categories but I think it be nice if the kernel manager was the one to download and update selected kernels Apr 10 15:06:10 Jack87|wIRC: then the kernel manager has to duplicate downloading and installing functionality. that's not the unix way Apr 10 15:06:47 does that copy work in linux commandline or do I need root access? Apr 10 15:07:31 rwhitby: understood. Apr 10 15:08:23 rwhitby: it would make sense to have kernel manager manage all that.. perhaps name should be changed to kernel selector :) Apr 10 15:09:12 Jack87|wIRC: the app would be called that, yes. Apr 10 15:11:00 well, tested out Save/Restore some more and wouldn't you know... Apr 10 15:11:22 ... it worked perfectly Apr 10 15:12:04 mjkjr: just like it did in testing ;) Apr 10 15:12:13 lol =) Apr 10 15:12:46 sbromwich: can you review that script for idempotence too? Apr 10 15:14:20 hmm - the -w test doesn't take ro filesystems into account Apr 10 15:14:29 (first test failed) Apr 10 15:14:42 (with a false positive no less) Apr 10 15:14:59 well, false succeed Apr 10 15:15:31 what's a good way to test if a filesystem is mounted rw or not? Apr 10 15:15:40 I guess touch a file in it. Apr 10 15:16:02 sorry, phone, sec Apr 10 15:16:08 rwhitby: try to make a file? Apr 10 15:16:17 yeah touch, /etc/mtab can't be trusted Apr 10 15:16:25 rwhitby: try to wget file into it? Apr 10 15:19:20 * rwhitby adds checks to make sure that all target directories are writeable Apr 10 15:22:02 sbromwich: terminal is giving me ( -sh: cd: can't cd to /media/crytofs/apps/usr/applications/ Apr 10 15:22:50 * Jack87|wIRC just read about touch and believes it's a great test for determining randallagordon randallagordon rw. Apr 10 15:23:14 wtf... sorry randallagordon Apr 10 15:23:16 LongWolf: usr/palm/applications Apr 10 15:24:04 tabcomplete fail ftw Apr 10 15:24:48 oh I did put that I typed it on here wrong but it still gave me the error Apr 10 15:24:52 palm-webos-device / # ls -ld /media/crytofs/apps/usr/applications/ Apr 10 15:24:53 ls: /media/crytofs/apps/usr/applications/: No such file or directory Apr 10 15:24:55 palm-webos-device / # Apr 10 15:24:57 YDIW Apr 10 15:25:19 need a p Apr 10 15:25:55 heh, I love how two people can review a script, and still not see half the errors :) Apr 10 15:26:17 ls -l /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/ Apr 10 15:26:27 work down from there Apr 10 15:26:48 rwhitby: sleep deprivation not being an issue at *all* ;-) Apr 10 15:26:57 ohhh I didn't even see the p Apr 10 15:27:03 ok which script did you want me to look at? Apr 10 15:27:20 (rwhitby) Apr 10 15:27:54 touch: /boot/.webosinternals.org: Read-only file system Apr 10 15:29:05 sbromwich: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=hardware/postinst.kernel;hb=HEAD Apr 10 15:29:27 lines 43 to 48 added to make sure the filesystem is writeable Apr 10 15:30:09 chattr could still fool it on the files Apr 10 15:30:37 if someone does chattr +i they deserve what they get Apr 10 15:31:06 isn't there a sh test to check if a file is writable? Apr 10 15:31:39 sbromwich: -w didn't fail for ugo+w on a ro filesystem Apr 10 15:32:10 oh that might be a bashism then Apr 10 15:33:20 does novacom boot mem:// < uImage work under windows? Apr 10 15:35:38 good question Apr 10 15:35:46 I thought so too ;-) Apr 10 15:36:03 tested failure if one of the files to be replaced does not exist Apr 10 15:37:18 yeah it looks like on failure the script does its level best to return back to how things were before Apr 10 15:38:44 ok, let's make it live Apr 10 15:39:40 good, tar -d checks mod time and size Apr 10 15:40:36 * Jack87|wIRC finally gets that when people on P/C talk about synergy they are reffering to universal searxh Apr 10 15:41:46 * mjkjr was under the impression that Synergy and Universal Search were 2 different things Apr 10 15:41:53 me too Apr 10 15:41:55 when im using the palm pre emulator...with virtualbox....and im in the device info screen....how do i get back to the home screen....like doing a finger swipe on the phone? Apr 10 15:42:00 lol Apr 10 15:42:03 ok, let's inject some errors ... Apr 10 15:42:23 CosmoSR0: Esc Apr 10 15:42:28 thx Apr 10 15:42:44 i'm only 95% sure Apr 10 15:42:45 cool..have a good day Apr 10 15:42:51 it worked Apr 10 15:43:06 rwhitby: try doung a touch -- -i in the dir you're operating on and see if that makes anything stop and query Apr 10 15:43:50 I thought synergy was the processes of synchronising the data, and universal search was... uh... search universally said data? Apr 10 15:44:08 * sbromwich wonders if he's been missing the point somewhere Apr 10 15:45:34 mjkjr: sbromwich: they are... but looks like people on precentral don't get that Apr 10 15:46:08 * mjkjr thinks some people on precentral don't get a lot Apr 10 15:46:12 =) Apr 10 15:46:15 heh... ok I'm not quite as clueless as I thought then :-) Apr 10 15:46:19 nooooooooo rly? Apr 10 15:46:23 sbromwich: maybe we were all mistaken Apr 10 15:46:34 :) Apr 10 15:46:34 the S/N ratio there is dropping Apr 10 15:46:39 OK PEOPLE. While rod is asleep I'm in charge. NO PRE CENTRAL TALK. Apr 10 15:46:45 xD Apr 10 15:47:03 +1 zsoc_wirc Apr 10 15:47:18 all you _wirc folks stick together. Apr 10 15:47:19 has anyone posted the link for the alpha kernel to slashdot yet? Apr 10 15:47:22 * sbromwich ducs and covers Apr 10 15:47:33 noooooo Apr 10 15:47:46 * Jack87|wIRC throws shit at sbromwich Apr 10 15:47:49 at least it won't be my servers dying. Apr 10 15:47:49 zsoc_wirc: while who's asleep? Apr 10 15:47:54 heh Apr 10 15:48:07 rwhitby: you. stop sleep-ircing Apr 10 15:48:07 rwhitby: didn't sleep! it's the weekend Apr 10 15:48:13 maybe I should try 4chan instead. Apr 10 15:48:24 sbromwich: yes Apr 10 15:48:41 I'm sure *they* could come up with a better SNR Apr 10 15:48:59 likely similar Apr 10 15:49:16 nah, they would just throw memes at you. Apr 10 15:49:30 with the kernel embedded Apr 10 15:49:41 * zsoc_wirc throws an "F--- YEA" at sbromwich Apr 10 15:49:52 he accidentally the whole kernel! Apr 10 15:50:03 * ka6sox waits impatiently for the postman to arrive with the test pre Apr 10 15:54:01 * mjkjr lol's at himself while downloading "Skater Nation" Apr 10 15:54:37 * sbromwich is off for a nap... hopefully without being called again. Apr 10 15:54:38 laters Apr 10 15:55:03 good luck sbromwich Apr 10 15:55:16 ok, let's see if this thing boots Apr 10 15:55:58 rwhitby: it's going to explode duck for cover Apr 10 15:56:25 root@palm-webos-device:/# cat /proc/version Apr 10 15:56:25 Linux version 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 (rwhitby@karmic) (gcc version 4.2.3 (Sourcery G++ Lite 2008q1-126)) #2 Sat Apr 10 08:57:47 CST 2010 Apr 10 15:57:09 this is about testing packaging not a fast kernel. Apr 10 15:57:34 ka6sox: that particular one should be a rebuilt stock kernel Apr 10 15:57:37 ka6sox: I think he just packaged default kernel Apr 10 15:57:39 "First, do no harm" Apr 10 15:57:55 yup :) Apr 10 15:59:12 now, let's see if palm-install can install a kernel Apr 10 16:00:06 * Jack87|wIRC watches rwhitby Apr 10 16:00:17 Looks like WOSQI is now obsolete for kernel installs too ... Apr 10 16:00:29 * mjkjr feels somewhat bored with his device and needs something new/exciting to do with it Apr 10 16:00:48 rwhitby, remember what happened last time you said it was "obsolete" ;-) Apr 10 16:00:49 mjkjr: got a linux build box? Apr 10 16:01:22 mjkjr: would they prefer "deprecated" ? ;-) Apr 10 16:01:57 Linux version 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 (rwhitby@karmic) (gcc version 4.2.3 (Sourcery G++ Lite 2008q1-126)) #2 Sat Apr 10 08:57:47 CST 2010 Apr 10 16:02:03 rwhitby, I have windows and linux Apr 10 16:02:33 mjkjr: if you have linux, and a Pre that is bored, you could replace the stock kernel on it with a version of the stock kernel that you've built yourself Apr 10 16:02:57 you don't really own a device until it's running a kernel that you built. Apr 10 16:03:05 rwhitby: deprecated might be a better term =) Apr 10 16:03:33 * mjkjr thinks that building a kernal is beyond his know how Apr 10 16:03:41 mjkjr: ah, but deprecated implies authority, of which I have none over wosqi Apr 10 16:03:58 mjkjr: if you have linux, it's as simple as "make" now Apr 10 16:05:04 ok, now that the packaging is tested, time to try marco's latest kernel Apr 10 16:05:13 great, now we'll have more WHEs Apr 10 16:05:33 zsoc_wirc: kernel whes no less Apr 10 16:05:39 zsoc, are you the only WHE? Apr 10 16:05:50 mjkjr: zsoc_wirc is *the* WHE Apr 10 16:05:51 ~rwhitby Apr 10 16:05:52 well, rwhitby is the owner of the nslu2-linux mailing list and IRC channel. He tries to provide some order to the burgeoning development around the NSLU2. You can find his website at http://www.rwhitby.net (where in particular, you will find information on Serial Port modifications for the Linksys WRT54G and NSLU2 devices). an honorary WHE Apr 10 16:06:06 lol Apr 10 16:06:11 rwhitby: so, what's different about the kernel you build compared to palm's? Apr 10 16:06:17 destinal: nothing Apr 10 16:06:36 destinal: that's the point of the 'palm-kernel-pre' package ;) Apr 10 16:06:52 destinal: building the 'uber-kernel-pre' package now .... Apr 10 16:06:56 ah Apr 10 16:08:48 * rwhitby installs uber-kernel, trusting marco implicitly, but only on ExpendablePre Apr 10 16:09:30 destinal: do we know how to mem boot from on the device itself? Apr 10 16:10:02 * rwhitby reboots Apr 10 16:10:44 [ 0.580000] OMAP: Change MPU speed: 250 => 800 MHz Apr 10 16:11:44 rwhitby: that was a fast reboot Apr 10 16:11:48 Linux version 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 (rwhitby@karmic) (gcc version 4.2.3 (Sourcery G++ Lite 2008q1-126)) #2 Sat Apr 10 10:41:42 CST 2010 Apr 10 16:14:05 root@palm-webos-device:/# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_max_freq Apr 10 16:14:05 800000 Apr 10 16:14:21 ok, now to palm-install back to stock Apr 10 16:16:37 [ 0.570000] OMAP: ARM/DSP clock at 550/396 MHz. Apr 10 16:17:15 my work here is done. it's all in the repo for those who know. night all. Apr 10 16:17:18 * rwhitby bbt Apr 10 16:18:28 night rwhitby Apr 10 16:19:38 sleep good rwhitby Apr 10 16:20:51 http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/11944355669 Apr 10 18:16:23 hi i have a queation Apr 10 18:16:58 dose this work for the palm pre plus? Apr 10 18:17:28 define "this"? Apr 10 18:17:44 installing preware? Apr 10 18:17:50 yes, that works. Apr 10 18:18:27 how come it keeps telling me it is not plugged in? Apr 10 18:18:46 have you enabled dev mode and installed the appropriate drivers for your system ? Apr 10 18:19:17 what he said. Apr 10 18:19:27 yes Apr 10 18:19:33 i have done that Apr 10 18:19:56 are you _sure_ you've done that *successfully* ? Apr 10 18:20:59 sup bpadalino Apr 10 18:21:04 hey geist Apr 10 18:21:13 well i got the version 1.4.0 for verizion and i got the preware alpha installer Apr 10 18:21:20 just looking at BGA reflow equipment Apr 10 18:21:24 but it dose not work Apr 10 18:21:28 i am doing a board and i am getting antsy Apr 10 18:21:36 geist, hows your weekend going ? Apr 10 18:21:46 too early to tell. just woke up Apr 10 18:21:48 drinkin my coffee Apr 10 18:22:00 *** Please install the Novacom drivers and try again ***??????????? this is the error Apr 10 18:22:04 gonna wander over to the local farmer's market in a bit Apr 10 18:22:12 what dore that mean? Apr 10 18:22:41 geist, nice - we're finally getting some good weather for the farmers markets to re-open out here Apr 10 18:22:59 help please Apr 10 18:23:13 geist, any summer plans yet for vacations ? Apr 10 18:23:21 not yet Apr 10 18:23:27 geist, or will you be buckling down for work again :( Apr 10 18:23:35 adam__, re-install the novacom drivers. Apr 10 18:23:51 where do i get those Apr 10 18:23:53 ? Apr 10 18:24:22 adam__, google is your friend. Apr 10 18:24:30 * ka6sox can't remmeber. Apr 10 18:25:04 adam__: download the palm sdk or use wosqi which grabs them from a 200 mb download image Apr 10 18:25:42 huh do you have a link? Apr 10 18:25:59 http://install.preware.org ? Apr 10 18:26:33 my pre decided to get a crack at the bottom left of the screen Apr 10 18:26:35 install.preware.org Apr 10 18:26:37 right Apr 10 18:26:44 rather, bottom rounded corner .. Apr 10 18:26:56 bpadalino: waranty replacement xD Apr 10 18:27:00 hoping it doesn't spider out for at least a couple more months Apr 10 18:27:26 eh, i don't need a pristine looking phone.. as long as it's functional Apr 10 18:27:34 * ka6sox has dev pixi coming now. Apr 10 18:27:42 ah, then you're good Apr 10 18:29:05 ka6sox: nice .. pixi or pixi plus ? Apr 10 18:29:19 pixi for now...I'll find a Plus later. Apr 10 18:29:20 there is someone selling a sprint pixi for $100 around me .. not sure if anyone is interested in it Apr 10 18:29:48 I'll capture a complete bootlog yet. :D Apr 10 18:29:50 ka6sox: there is a pixi plus one ebay with a possible bad esn for $199 OBO .. might be worth while to scout that out ? Apr 10 18:30:03 ya, that might be good too. Apr 10 18:30:11 keep in mind the pixi plus doesn't have any more ram, it's just got wifi Apr 10 18:30:35 geist, ah - didn't realize .. so it's still at .. 256 ? or were those 128 ? Apr 10 18:30:35 if its got a bad ESN then the Wifi would be necessary. Apr 10 18:30:39 256 Apr 10 18:30:44 more like 256 - 40 Apr 10 18:30:49 since the modem chews up 40MB of ram Apr 10 18:31:03 wow.. Apr 10 18:31:26 definitely good to know Apr 10 18:31:32 welcome to qualcomm's cpu design Apr 10 18:32:21 with the high integration of the baseband and RF components, i always wondered why no one came out with a phone that could do 3G on both ATT and TMob frequencies Apr 10 18:32:37 it would seem paying for 1 FCC verification would be cheaper than 2 Apr 10 18:32:37 bpadalino: they can... Apr 10 18:32:38 would be hard antenna wise Apr 10 18:32:46 OH 3g Apr 10 18:32:53 I missed that. carry on. Apr 10 18:33:03 but i think more to the point the carriers probably dont like that Apr 10 18:33:13 why do they want a phone that can work on the other guy's netweork? Apr 10 18:33:22 if they had their way they'd totally lock you in as hard as possible Apr 10 18:33:24 geist, i was more afraid of the carriers being the reason versus technical limitations Apr 10 18:33:56 but it wouldn't be trivial Apr 10 18:34:01 hate/hate relationship with those carriers Apr 10 18:34:03 you'd need at least an additional antenna Apr 10 18:34:28 dtzWill: if you're around, what did you map orange and sym to in X11? Apr 10 18:34:53 geist, yeah i suppose 1.7 and 2.1 GHz would be difficult to get good matching networks for in a single design Apr 10 18:35:24 that is enough to change the FCC approval process. Apr 10 18:35:38 it's all doable, but generally speaking it's just a BOM stuff at the factory Apr 10 18:35:45 to make different versions, so it's no biggie Apr 10 18:36:09 i suppose whatever it costs for fcc approval ($20k/device?) is peanuts anyway Apr 10 18:36:11 new antenna, and probably some id pin on the modem Apr 10 18:36:54 kind of s shame, i used to like tmo a lot Apr 10 18:37:04 till palm i had been using them since 2001 or so Apr 10 18:37:06 we tried making an L, S and C band antenna .. omnidirectional .. didn't work so well .. think we ended up being at least -3dBi for each band Apr 10 18:37:54 i've only ever used CDMA carriers .. i tried GSM for a bit but for whatever reason the codec just sounded terrible where i was Apr 10 18:38:07 it does. cdma seems to handle noise a lot better Apr 10 18:38:10 bpadalino, you can make one that is better than that but it would get bigger. Apr 10 18:38:13 bpadalino: no that's normal Apr 10 18:38:13 it degrades more nicely Apr 10 18:38:47 but an antenna that covers 2:1 is not easy. Apr 10 18:39:00 i was always amazed at how high the bitrate was for normal voice comms Apr 10 18:39:26 we have some 2400bps MELP that is standard at work .. and even 300bps when stuff gets tough Apr 10 18:39:53 * ka6sox never liked the *ELP stuff. never sounded right. Apr 10 18:40:00 also keep in mind there's already antennas for gps, bluetoof, wifi, 1800/1900/900, etc Apr 10 18:40:14 it's just the 3G bands that seems to have bifurcated in the US Apr 10 18:40:18 geist, true - so many radios in the device as it is Apr 10 18:40:25 though one could argue that tmo is in the right, since they're following the euro bands Apr 10 18:40:47 the 700MHz stuff should be interesting coming up Apr 10 18:41:27 bpadalino, what bandwidth chunks are they going to allocate there? Apr 10 18:41:32 ka6sox: the MELP at work seems to sound a lot better than CVSD Apr 10 18:41:38 ka6sox: no idea really Apr 10 18:42:24 bpadalino, we used CVSD for paging and other stuff. Apr 10 18:42:24 is there any way to get free payed apps? Apr 10 18:42:33 you know, we just got some temporary/experimental license in the 10MHz band for a whole 24kHz chunk to do wideband HF .. and we were really excited about that Apr 10 18:42:41 is there any way to get free payed apps? Apr 10 18:42:47 adam__: please read the topic Apr 10 18:42:55 adam, this isn't the warez channel. Apr 10 18:43:05 bpadalino: pr0n Apr 10 18:43:23 how do i get there Apr 10 18:43:26 ? Apr 10 18:43:28 mmm 10MHz pron.. Apr 10 18:43:32 exactly Apr 10 18:43:48 adam__: you will no information in this channel about warez, do not ask again. Apr 10 18:43:54 ascii boobies are about as good as you can get when you're doing HF halfway around the world :) Apr 10 18:44:18 psk31 Apr 10 18:44:27 though 24khz is pretty wide for that, i think. Apr 10 18:44:46 geist, with psk31 you should come back next week and see 1 line. Apr 10 18:44:48 it is - we're pushing a new standard that can do 3, 6, 9, 12, 18 and 24 kHz i think Apr 10 18:44:54 i know. :) Apr 10 18:45:11 we can do 9600bps in 3kHz right now, which is pretty spectacular Apr 10 18:45:15 it's all turbo coded up Apr 10 18:45:23 trellis Apr 10 18:46:04 * geist tries to remember that little packet/rtty box he used to have Apr 10 18:46:15 pakrat i think. it was a nice little thing Apr 10 18:46:57 pk232 Apr 10 18:47:02 ah yeah, that's it Apr 10 18:47:35 that was a good little box Apr 10 18:47:37 I think mine is in a box somewhere. Apr 10 18:47:52 pk232 + heathkit dumb terminal == win Apr 10 18:48:02 H19 Apr 10 18:49:19 yep Apr 10 18:49:27 then i think we ran it against a Kaypro II for a while Apr 10 18:49:52 http://www.flickr.com/photos/baron_indy/3492117138/ Apr 10 18:50:08 yeah, was just looking at that page Apr 10 18:50:24 that was my first "laptop" a kayproII Apr 10 18:50:34 yeah, good little guy Apr 10 18:50:46 my dad still has the old one. one of the drives crapped out, otherwise it's still good Apr 10 18:51:40 my original A2+ still works. (I had to repair the PS though) Apr 10 18:52:28 I just dragged out the TRS100 and fired that up..still works good. Apr 10 18:52:31 yeah, got a bunch of those out in the garage Apr 10 18:52:40 even hoooked up the old IIgs a little while back Apr 10 18:52:41 http://tkgeisel.com/pics/oldcomputers/medium/appleiigs.jpg Apr 10 18:53:05 they play some fun games. Apr 10 18:53:09 ooh, is that a sparc classic or lx you have there ? Apr 10 18:53:21 i used to have a sparc lx Apr 10 18:53:30 that's a sparc lx Apr 10 18:53:38 actually sitting here on the floor holding the door open right now Apr 10 18:54:04 i could never get used to the solaris way of naming everything .. but it was a nice little machine Apr 10 18:54:10 i had a 20" sun monitor with it too Apr 10 18:54:12 runs openbsd just fine Apr 10 18:54:25 i tossed the monitor though. it was too big to keep hauling around Apr 10 18:54:54 yeah, i ended up selling my stuff to a friend who had a sparcstation 20 Apr 10 18:55:06 still have a ss20 somewhere Apr 10 18:55:16 i kept those mostly cause they're small enough that it's not too much of a hardship Apr 10 18:55:26 yeah, the pizzabox style was pretty nice Apr 10 18:56:27 the sparc lx is so slow, it's basically a x term Apr 10 18:56:38 which without a monitor is quite a bit less useful Apr 10 18:56:43 heh Apr 10 18:57:06 the ss20 isn't so bad though. i think it has a couple of 80mhz supersparcs, with L2 cache Apr 10 18:57:16 so it's not super slow Apr 10 18:57:34 wow it's geeky in here. Apr 10 18:57:38 biggest reason i dont run it much anymore is it's probably a power hog and it's noisy Apr 10 18:57:54 * zsoc_wirc basks in the golden geekyness Apr 10 18:57:54 * ka6sox wishes he kept his unixpc. Apr 10 18:58:13 my friend would keep his ss20 in his closet with the 20" color monitor .. thing would heat his whole room in the winter Apr 10 18:58:22 yeah, pretty much Apr 10 18:58:40 geist, on a side note - are you participating in the webos weekend developer thing in a couple weekends ? Apr 10 18:58:43 though i keep thinking of getting an 802.11 bridge and putting some stuff out in the garage Apr 10 18:58:51 bpadalino: dunno, hadn't heard of it Apr 10 18:59:32 oh, it's over on the palm campus: https://secure1.regsvc.com/registration/index.aspx?TYPE=E&ID=2&LC=&PIN=&REF=&dbGUID=9A3C79FD-7BAA-4866-BFBD-E1385AA7935C& Apr 10 18:59:56 ah Apr 10 19:00:01 mainly for outside devs in mojo i guess, but i was curious if they were going to have any more technical people there Apr 10 19:00:08 to stop by and eat the food Apr 10 19:00:09 :) Apr 10 19:00:35 never pass up free food. Apr 10 19:00:53 yeah, totally Apr 10 19:01:05 well, back in a few. hitting the sunnyvale farmer's market Apr 10 19:01:10 later Apr 10 19:01:17 Had an idea while I tried espeak for Navid. Apr 10 19:01:35 later geist Apr 10 19:01:35 The version in the WIPDK is working without problems. Apr 10 19:02:06 coulden't we use it for a patch to get the Pre to speak the name of the person for an incomming call? Apr 10 19:02:47 "call from...bob jones" Apr 10 19:03:07 would make getting vnc server running kinda moot I guess. Apr 10 19:03:22 yes probably Apr 10 19:03:35 hape_, nice idea....run with it. Apr 10 19:04:21 so javascript can call execute a native linux program with a command line argument? Apr 10 19:05:53 bbiaw...work..blah Apr 10 19:06:00 i also want the incoming call to cause the contact name to get spoken, but not out of the pre-- out of the other speakers in my house Apr 10 19:06:15 lol Apr 10 19:06:39 i'd also like incoming SMS to be forwarded to a jabber bot Apr 10 19:08:43 drewp, you can have something that announces those things to your other machines .. Apr 10 19:08:48 maybe it sends out a multicast packet ? Apr 10 19:09:03 drewp: if we had /dev/dsp that wouldn't be a problem Apr 10 19:09:30 dd if=/dev/dsp | ssh username@host dd of=/dev/dsp Apr 10 19:09:32 bpadalino: i'd be happy for it to send an http POST to an endpoint of my choice; i can do the rest of the dispatch from there Apr 10 19:09:48 drewp, sounds even easier since you can do those from mojo Apr 10 19:10:06 well that is actually getting the microphone being played on another computer Apr 10 19:10:39 i'd like to have a big record button available on my calls personally .. Apr 10 19:11:34 would be nice to integrate that into the call-log too Apr 10 19:11:38 bpadalino: true! once you post, then all the webhooks stuff out there can do the rest. On-screen OS notifications, send email, whatever Apr 10 19:12:39 i guess the goal should be a prefs page where you can enter the URLs you want for each type of thing (sms-in, sms-out, phone call, phone wake, gps fix, etc) Apr 10 19:13:20 go for it Apr 10 19:13:39 yeah this sounds almost more exciting than the project i'm working on right now Apr 10 19:14:48 drop everything and run to it Apr 10 19:31:42 whois maxisma Apr 10 19:32:07 * maxisma is an idiot Apr 10 19:32:40 he he Apr 10 20:25:05 http://webos.pastebin.com/z6QtUaST Apr 10 20:25:13 got a question, please Apr 10 20:25:46 seem to be having a problem installing the preware Apr 10 20:27:07 Am attempting to install WIDK in ubuntu 9.10 on a Dell XPS rig. I seems to have no toolchain folder after git clone git://git.webos-internals.org/preware/cross-compile.git Apr 10 20:27:29 I've pasted my log above. How come there is no toolcahin folder? Apr 10 20:27:52 I install the preware 0.9.56.jar, dbl clk to install and it bounces for a few in my doc (mac osx 10.5) and boom, gone! nothing Apr 10 20:30:08 sethron: you need to make something after you get cross-compile.git Apr 10 20:30:12 make stage or something Apr 10 20:30:28 gotta go Apr 10 20:30:40 @bpadalino That's after. Apr 10 20:31:02 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK Apr 10 20:31:29 wait. yes I think it's make toolchain. Apr 10 20:32:17 yup, thanks. Apr 10 21:10:43 hola Apr 10 21:11:39 should I change car oil since it's good weather for a change! or go for a ride? Apr 10 21:17:40 as long as you don't wIRC on your ride. Apr 10 21:17:54 * ka6sox would hate to be responsible for that. Apr 10 21:20:20 RWhitby? Apr 10 21:23:33 Rwhitby: just letting you know the fixed ipk's are being rebuilt and repackaged (autobuilder) accordingly to spec's Apr 10 21:23:33 caj2008: it's almost 8am there on a weekend, he's probably not up yet. Apr 10 21:23:49 forgot, I should know I worked in Singapore Apr 10 21:24:17 ka6sox: haha ya that one is tricker. although I do have a throttle lock.. I'd just be afraid of dropping the phone Apr 10 21:24:29 bpadalino: what makes you think the phone calls are handled through /dev/dsp? Apr 10 21:24:46 zsoc: I have learned alot here at precental and I want to perosnally thank you for all your help in the past Apr 10 21:25:03 you're takiing zsoc? Apr 10 21:25:09 lol Apr 10 21:25:11 caj2008: er... you sure you got the right guy? Apr 10 21:25:37 oil: i'm sorry? Apr 10 21:25:38 yes...you helped me a couple of time...justntrying to thank everyone before I leave at end of May one by one Apr 10 21:25:42 thanking* Apr 10 21:25:44 caj2008: oh, ok :) Apr 10 21:25:47 yw Apr 10 21:25:47 thanks oil' Apr 10 21:25:53 * oil did nothing Apr 10 21:25:57 lol Apr 10 21:26:05 I DO NOT ACCEPT THANKS FROM MERE HUMANS Apr 10 21:26:09 lol Apr 10 21:26:10 you make me laugh thats enough Apr 10 21:26:27 'lol' just looks like a guy on a roller coaster in this font Apr 10 21:26:50 my wife thinks I am alien at times...does that qualify...all that time on a phone she thought it was an affair..sick Apr 10 21:27:15 i still don't understand why you're leaving Apr 10 21:27:19 you just need to manage your time better Apr 10 21:27:29 and dont give out your phone numbers to users asking for help Apr 10 21:27:30 lol Apr 10 21:28:00 I have 1000 people who depend upon me in a given year and I felt this consumed me unnaturally so I am moving on Apr 10 21:28:14 focus on my real job Apr 10 21:28:34 this was a nice hobby and I may defect to EOS Apr 10 21:28:44 lol Apr 10 21:29:55 really cool though all the new stuff being developed by WebOSInternals now Apr 10 21:30:21 new stuff? Apr 10 21:30:36 linux office stuff, trying it Apr 10 21:30:50 awesome Apr 10 21:30:53 oh Apr 10 21:31:28 Why couldnt Palm think more of us business people and why no complete backup solution, some of my many beefs with the Pre Apr 10 21:32:04 caj2008, there are solutions...its just not how palm chose to implement it. Apr 10 21:32:16 nay clue why? Apr 10 21:32:43 why did they negelect such a large population? Apr 10 21:32:48 storing stuff in the cloud is the new way. Apr 10 21:33:14 but still no complete backup solution like in the old days Apr 10 21:33:45 write one. you would be a hero. Apr 10 21:34:10 My good friend Jason is on that Apr 10 21:34:26 lol Apr 10 21:34:27 okay, then it *is* being solved. Apr 10 21:34:32 Hes already a god Apr 10 21:35:04 back to setting up for kernel development. Apr 10 21:35:23 cant believe I couldnt edit word or powerpoint Apr 10 21:35:38 still bugs me Apr 10 21:35:42 * oil has yet to need to edit a word or ppt from his phone Apr 10 21:35:59 My job requires it. The Pre was a huge sacrifice Apr 10 21:36:10 caj2008, write it...you will be a god. Apr 10 21:36:48 I am going into Pretirement at end of May but will release one more goody from a collaboaration before I go Apr 10 21:37:02 spelling sucks Apr 10 21:37:44 Going to spend some quality time with my kid...ttyl Apr 10 21:37:58 lol Apr 10 21:38:52 preware trac worked down to 4 tickets :) Apr 10 21:58:54 64 degrees! ah. got to go for a ride it be a crime not to! Apr 10 22:00:08 okay but NO wIRC. Apr 10 22:00:48 he wirc'd home drunk last night Apr 10 22:01:15 I know...I was chatting with him...stupid me. Apr 10 22:01:47 lol 2 beers. wasn't really drunk just goofy Apr 10 22:02:51 you guys have 3.2? Apr 10 22:03:33 3.2... what? Apr 10 22:04:30 beer Apr 10 22:05:02 but I was drinking imports thath were a bit more Apr 10 22:06:26 Jack87|wIRC: are you in the world of flanders or something? Apr 10 22:06:51 sbromwich: salt lake city UT. what do you think? Apr 10 22:07:02 I think yes Apr 10 22:07:10 morning Apr 10 22:07:18 * dtzWill is out of beer and it makes him sad Apr 10 22:07:20 rwhitby: 'morning :) Apr 10 22:07:42 dtzWill: did you try the kernele packaging? it worked here. Apr 10 22:07:57 rwhitby: oh did you update it? Apr 10 22:07:58 I remember the whole lite/strong beer think from when I was working at novell and when we were at brainshare we had to sign up for a membership at... murphy's? before we could get beer Apr 10 22:08:05 rwhitby: morning :-) Apr 10 22:08:24 and a club called... dead goat? Apr 10 22:08:25 rwhitby: i had the aupt issues, remember? and then when I installed it manually it ate my testing device for breakfast, and doctor wouldn't run. was a fun few hours :) Apr 10 22:09:07 but good learning experience and next time i'll be able to recover faster :). ended up booting the recovery image manually and restoring the kernel/modules from a tarball I had made, not sure why the doctor was being silly Apr 10 22:09:13 anyway if you updated it I can give it a go Apr 10 22:10:08 dtzWill: I changed the postinst now for testing Apr 10 22:11:26 rwhitby: it's possible I had a write error--I saw your script on twitter, looks good, very careful :) Apr 10 22:14:22 you need to be careful when you're dealing with replacing your kernel on an embedded device Apr 10 22:14:56 I wonder what caj2008 meant by "Rwhitby: just letting you know the fixed ipk's are being rebuilt and repackaged (autobuilder) accordingly to spec's" ? Apr 10 22:15:06 rwhitby: being careful is good--I very much meant that as approval/compliment Apr 10 22:15:20 dtzWill: I took it as such :) Apr 10 22:15:33 rwhitby: I probably missed something, shrug. thankfully the pre is rather recoverable :) Apr 10 22:15:37 rwhitby: hehe good :) Apr 10 22:15:55 dtzWill: oh, it's likely the old script sucked - it hadn't been tested of course Apr 10 22:17:45 rwhitby: ah okay. maybe that was it. anyway all better :), and glad the newer one works, I can verify it here if you'd like Apr 10 22:17:52 (fairly easy to do while working :)) Apr 10 22:19:05 dtzWill: sure, it will be great to have an independent verification of the build procedure Apr 10 22:19:18 rwhitby: kk will do Apr 10 22:23:03 sbromwich: is the new packaging working for you? you should be able to make a sibling dir in the hardware area and build experimental kernels the same way using a different (or additional) patch or defconfig from git Apr 10 22:23:58 rwhitby: I'm too spaced out from lack of sleep ATM to even look at it, I'm just waiting for my son to settle down and I'm off for an early night Apr 10 22:24:15 lol is it expectd for WOQI to not reboot the phone after installing something like this? :) Apr 10 22:24:18 sbromwich: no worries. FYI, I'm on holidays for a week from tomorrow Apr 10 22:24:29 rwhitby: *envy* Apr 10 22:25:11 dtzWill: use palm-install, not wosqi, and yes I don't think it honours DeviceRestart (neither does palm-install of course, but Preware will when it's in a custom feed) Apr 10 22:25:33 rwhitby: oh kk. palm-install from the SDK then? I have that somewhere.... Apr 10 22:25:42 (testament to how much I just normally use WIDK+ssh/scp heh) Apr 10 22:25:56 dtzWill: yeah, all the stuff I'm doing these days is palm-install compatible Apr 10 22:26:11 rwhitby: wonderful. means i can.. errr.. orange+tap remove my kernel? :D Apr 10 22:26:18 ;) Apr 10 22:26:25 rwhitby: is it in the palm app catalog yet? Apr 10 22:26:31 sbromwich: I worked the door at murphys for a little while tthe membership thing stopped last year finally. how long ago were you here Apr 10 22:26:31 * sbromwich stirs the pot Apr 10 22:26:45 2000 Apr 10 22:26:54 dtzWill: haven't done the prerm yet, but yes, orange+tap of kernel will be supportd Apr 10 22:27:21 did you get the brainshare swarm crowding the place out every spring? Apr 10 22:27:30 rwhitby: for some reason I find that hilarious :). Apr 10 22:27:41 sbromwich: was the door guy then a big muscled up tattooded white guy? Apr 10 22:27:49 I know it's one of the places the VP of SW dev likes to hang out Apr 10 22:27:52 errrrrrr Apr 10 22:27:55 sbromwich: yes... haha it's expected actually Apr 10 22:28:27 I honestly can't remember, all I can tell you is we had a redhat guy from .au we got completely hammered on guinness and he had to get a taxi driver drive him in his rental car to the airport Apr 10 22:29:16 sbromwich: haha good times Apr 10 22:29:58 * rwhitby bbl Apr 10 22:30:01 sbromwich: novel didn't buy suse at the time. I that was 2003 or 2004 Apr 10 22:30:18 and the server was a redhead who kept bringing the guinness Apr 10 22:30:30 yeah I know, golem was the guy who got novell to buy them Apr 10 22:31:21 sbromwich: haha sorry random just reminded me of that. novel gave me copy of suse and a book when they bought it during testout challenge I was in highschool at the time :) Apr 10 22:31:38 he's also the guy I'm poking to get his rt devs to help me out with the -rt patch Apr 10 22:31:48 heh Apr 10 22:31:53 but the entire school district used novel they might still actually Apr 10 22:32:12 nice that be awesome Apr 10 22:32:18 I would expect so in utah considering the tax $$$ novell contributes Apr 10 22:33:17 their main offices are down south.. in mormon vill town. provo/orem Apr 10 22:33:52 yeah, my office was over near boston Apr 10 22:33:55 errr... framingham? Apr 10 22:34:34 I worked from home most of the time and just went down for project updates, which were basically an excuse for golem and I to go drinking on a monthly basis Apr 10 22:34:55 haha boston farmington funny! I used to work in bountiful just south of farmington Apr 10 22:35:12 that's a sweet gig Apr 10 22:36:46 * rwhitby bbl Apr 10 22:38:33 yeah, I was working on an embedded box for them at the time for their oliko division Apr 10 22:39:08 24 hours from signing a million dollar contract with ingram the ceo changed and our division got canned for being unprofitable Apr 10 22:39:14 c'est la vie Apr 10 22:40:09 good grief. Apr 10 22:40:23 the web developer we hired to do our website still has it up in his portfolio. Apr 10 22:40:25 rwhitby: the kernel package I just installed boots, but 3d applications don't work anymore. SDL apps do, but not GLES ones Apr 10 22:40:36 http://home.earthlink.net/~dshirst/oko/index2.html Apr 10 22:40:37 rwhitby: glyder 2 doesn't work, and X, etc, don't launch Apr 10 22:41:29 sbromwich: that website resized my window. I disagree. Apr 10 22:42:03 zsoc: I have JS window resizing turned off Apr 10 22:42:33 zsoc: I bitched at him for poor accessibility, specifically the lack of ALT tags for his images. RTS for his... "solution" Apr 10 22:43:10 sbromwich: generally i have noscript on, but it launched in a diff browser Apr 10 22:44:15 ok now it works Apr 10 22:44:17 yay, i love gsb Apr 10 22:44:19 er, gdb Apr 10 22:49:28 has anyone tried loading a kernel with novacom boot mem from windows? Apr 10 22:49:36 is it the same method as listed on the wiki? Apr 10 22:56:39 should work Apr 10 22:57:04 thanks :-) Apr 10 22:57:25 just had a query from someone willing to try installing from windows to see how preempt works with his app. Apr 10 23:15:13 oh, did I mentioned I have soft RT prio running on my pre with schedtool? Apr 10 23:16:20 geist, how was the market ? Apr 10 23:22:26 sbromwich:did i hear RT somewhere? Apr 10 23:30:50 uNiXpSyChO: schedtool Apr 10 23:31:22 compiles happily on the pre, I have lunasysmgr, pulseaudio and... whatever the cdma interface daemon is at RT_PRIO Apr 10 23:31:28 soft RT, mind Apr 10 23:31:35 smooth? Apr 10 23:31:44 haven't made my mind up yet. Apr 10 23:31:50 pulse already runs in rt Apr 10 23:32:29 ahhhh, then that would explain why it didn't seem to do much for audio then ;-) Apr 10 23:32:54 I did the stupid step of enabling anticipatory and schedtool at the same time so improvements could be due to either Apr 10 23:33:15 pre alpha absolutely rips along displaying the full package list retrieving the icons Apr 10 23:33:28 i do the same thing. then try to find out which one crashed. Apr 10 23:33:31 I think that's the seeks from anticipatory more than anything Apr 10 23:33:36 heh Apr 10 23:34:25 did you try anticipatory? Apr 10 23:34:44 yeah. seems quicker. i hope its not a placebo Apr 10 23:34:53 ok, not just me Apr 10 23:35:20 I've got a guy who loaded the old kernel on the forums not trying with anticipatory so hopefully there will be some useful info Apr 10 23:35:35 he knows his onions enough to give me the uname output without being asked, at least Apr 10 23:36:05 you mean you're not gonna do 4 weeks of testing? *cough* *gagg* Apr 10 23:36:29 you seem to be implying I'm responsible for post-alpha? ;-) Apr 10 23:36:34 hehe Apr 10 23:37:31 I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea to cherrypick the clued out and inform them directly of new kernels so they can give feedback here or something Apr 10 23:37:37 compiling the bridge driver didnt seem to make a bit of difference... waste of time. Apr 10 23:37:53 bum :-( Apr 10 23:38:33 oh, I forgot, I was supposed to give mason a go tonight... I'll do that before an early night. Apr 10 23:38:34 here would be better? lots of lusers in the forums. Apr 10 23:38:52 ...before getting sh!tfaced? ;) Apr 10 23:39:18 yeah, that's why I'm talking cherrypicking... so far I've seen 2 out of the whole lot that have clue and aren't already here Apr 10 23:39:20 heh Apr 10 23:39:38 no, I'm short enough on sleep that I'm at risk, I need to get sleep tonight Apr 10 23:40:12 when we go to sleep is when all the action starts on the other end of the world. Apr 10 23:41:32 mmmm Apr 10 23:42:01 ideally I'd let my sleep patterns phase as they want but my son's school would probably complain if he started turning up at midnight. Apr 10 23:42:24 lol Apr 11 00:12:40 to be completely clear it's not like testing is BAD Apr 11 00:12:52 even if it's a running joke for whatever reason :) Apr 11 00:13:29 and I'm not saying anyone has to test anything, just...defending that people who test, whatever you think of it being your personal responsibility, aren't doing a disservice :) Apr 11 00:13:33 but we all knew that I suppose Apr 11 00:13:34 * dtzWill shuts up Apr 11 00:17:51 that's the point dtzWill... *appropriate* testing, and not keeping bugs hidden in secret Apr 11 00:18:11 sbromwich: o_O. whoa I didn't know anything about bugs hidden in secret lol :( Apr 11 00:18:39 believe me I know all about appropriate testing... I once screwed up and managed to release a code drop for Courier modems that couldn't dial "7" on internal PBXen. Apr 11 00:19:12 sbromwich: yeah after I spoke up I realized that for sure you guys know of good testing practicess Apr 11 00:19:26 which rather caused a problem for all the cc merchants using couriers for cc auth ;-) Apr 11 00:19:37 sbromwich: I think just a reaction to the anti-testing comments, but apparently I missed the complete context Apr 11 00:19:45 sbromwich: haha. live and learn Apr 11 00:20:02 sbromwich: how do you write such good code? I don't make mistakes. How'd you learn not to make mistakes? By making lots of mistakes.... Apr 11 00:20:03 well, in my world it goes alpha -> beta -> test -> dev -> prod Apr 11 00:20:22 certain people seem to go alpha -> dev -> prod Apr 11 00:20:38 sbromwich: yeppers, similar in the envs i've seen, which are admiteddly fewer :) Apr 11 00:20:46 and are then surprised by having issues Apr 11 00:20:52 kinda depends on the audience and the application, no? Apr 11 00:21:03 not that I'm naming anyone in particular because there's a few people pulling that stunt I've seen. Apr 11 00:21:07 exactly Apr 11 00:21:11 my stuff is alpha Apr 11 00:21:21 which essentially means "WFM" Apr 11 00:21:40 http://codinghorror.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a85dcdae970b0128776ff992970c-pi etc :) Apr 11 00:21:58 I wouldn't expect to see any of my changes make it into production on preware for at least 6 months, for example Apr 11 00:22:04 developmestruction perchane? Apr 11 00:22:10 ^ne^nce Apr 11 00:22:24 ah, yes Apr 11 00:22:53 http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The_Developmestuction_Environment.aspx Apr 11 00:24:18 oooh, I got another thread voted "terrible" on PC. Apr 11 00:24:19 ftw. Apr 11 00:26:29 Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #1 PREEMPT Sun Apr 11 00:14:53 UTC 2010 armv7l unknown Apr 11 00:26:31 also ftw. Apr 11 00:26:40 that's 1.4.1 Apr 11 00:41:29 fail, flickers in youtube Apr 11 00:43:15 followed by a kernel lockup Apr 11 00:43:35 epic FAIL ;) Apr 11 00:43:46 pretty much Apr 11 00:43:53 sbromwich: so if if i patch up the palm kernel with BFQ and compcache wanna do more testing? Apr 11 00:43:56 back in time I go to a march kernel Apr 11 00:44:08 sure, compile away Apr 11 00:44:26 compucache? hmm. Apr 11 00:44:35 compcache is nice Apr 11 00:44:40 on my desktop Apr 11 00:44:42 and on my CO Apr 11 00:44:49 s/CO/XO/ Apr 11 00:44:49 PuffTheMagic meant: and on my XO Apr 11 00:44:50 it is but has sideeffects on phone Apr 11 00:45:09 if it works good on my XO it should be goon on the Pre Apr 11 00:45:18 only one way to find out :-) Apr 11 00:45:21 custom Android kernels has it and causes some probs Apr 11 00:45:38 uNiXpSyChO: well there are also some buggy versions of it Apr 11 00:45:56 give it a try, cant hurt :) Apr 11 00:45:59 ++ Apr 11 00:47:18 uNiXpSyChO: i hope its latest version ramzswap works on .24 Apr 11 00:47:59 it should with some hacking... early android roms used a 2.6.18 kernel IIRC... the new ones use .29 Apr 11 00:48:37 i hate backporting Apr 11 00:48:45 i have some other io scheds u can test too Apr 11 00:48:52 FIFO iosched Apr 11 00:48:55 and VR iosched Apr 11 00:49:50 and if u guys really wan to have fun Apr 11 00:49:58 i have the patches for the BFS cpu sched Apr 11 00:49:59 ;0 Apr 11 00:51:01 BFS of forward port the one COn had before CFS Apr 11 00:51:17 Can anyone tell me what this codde does? this.storageNotificationSession = new Mojo.Service.Request( 'palm://com.palm.bus/signal', { method: 'addmatch', parameters: { "category" : "/storaged", "method" : "MSMProgress", "subscribe" : true }, onSuccess: AppAssistant.prototype.storagedProgress, onComplete: AppAssistant.prototype.storagedProgress } ); Apr 11 00:51:28 What is MSMProgress? Apr 11 00:52:08 it's a method Apr 11 00:52:31 yes, lol, I got that...what's it tell me? What is it returning? Apr 11 00:52:43 uNiXpSyChO: yeah on of my friends now maintains it for ck Apr 11 00:52:49 Is it telling me that something's been stored on the harddrive? Apr 11 00:52:50 send something to it, see what you get back Apr 11 00:53:15 zsoc: u test it yet? Apr 11 00:53:31 zsoc: do you not know (which is totally fine) or are you just annoyed I'm asking? Apr 11 00:53:34 PuffTheMagic: i told you it works, i have to fix the mojo Apr 11 00:53:53 donrhummy: i'm trying to help you find out, because i don't think anyone here will know off the top of their head Apr 11 00:54:22 OK, I'll try to see what response I get. Apr 11 00:54:57 I was just seeing if someone here knew. Apr 11 00:55:25 donrhummy: we know how to get the answer Apr 11 00:55:30 we dont remember the answer Apr 11 00:55:44 well at least me Apr 11 00:56:01 ok, thanks. Apr 11 00:58:31 bah iPhone multitasking is crap Apr 11 00:58:55 OK, it didn't help at all. This is the answer I get: {"returnValue": true} Apr 11 00:59:06 I keep reading out it and it seems like all the want to do is lock-in and control developers more Apr 11 00:59:17 out=about Apr 11 00:59:44 Anyone have any idea? It's talking to "palm.com.bus/signal Apr 11 01:00:10 Sorry, that's com.palm.bus Apr 11 01:00:13 where did you find it? Apr 11 01:00:19 In google maps Apr 11 01:00:52 I believe it's hooking in to inotify BICBW Apr 11 01:01:22 If it returns success, the app sets MSMmodeActive to true. I don't know what MSM is here Apr 11 01:01:24 looking for local map cache or something Apr 11 01:02:04 MSM is the Mobile Station Modem Apr 11 01:02:10 it's a qualcomm thing Apr 11 01:02:40 ah that makes sense Apr 11 01:02:48 sorry if I'm pretty unknowledgeable here, but how does the modem fit into this? Apr 11 01:03:05 also makes sense why disabling ext3 labels made stuff go so shonky ;-) Apr 11 01:03:55 donrhummy: palm piggyback extra stuff on the antennae, my speculation would be it's using the modem to see for cell info then possibly reusing it for GPS acquisition Apr 11 01:04:16 see also: /var/palm/data/http_maps.google.com_0/ Apr 11 01:04:34 sbromwich: ok, so this is a diff. way of getting position, then? Apr 11 01:04:56 there are multiple ways of resolving GPS Apr 11 01:05:02 most obvious is GPS itself Apr 11 01:05:07 prolly similar to what ##GPS does Apr 11 01:05:14 then there's almanacs and what not, which I don't think the palm uses Apr 11 01:05:20 try hitting that 'get position' button in that scene while capturing dbus Apr 11 01:05:31 then you can also get the lat/lon of the nearest cell tower and use that to prime the satellite search Apr 11 01:05:40 OK, any idea why the google app would care which way it's getting the gps data? shouldn't that be black-boxed to the app? Apr 11 01:05:50 finally if you're in the arse end of nowhere with no cell signal you sit for minutes while it scans the sky Apr 11 01:06:00 donrhummy: probably for the accuracy level display Apr 11 01:06:33 cell tower for me at home only gives an accuracy of around 500m with triangulation off the celltowers Apr 11 01:06:33 cold start with a decent signal should resolve somewhat quickly .. 60 to 90 seconds or so ? Apr 11 01:06:39 OK, so it makes no diff. to the app for where it gets the data, but by knowing that's the method, they can assume less accuracy? Apr 11 01:06:48 BTW, thank you VERY much for the help here. Apr 11 01:06:54 bpadalino: as long as one is not deep in the canadia shield ;-) Apr 11 01:07:12 that sounds like a reasonable assumption donrhummy Apr 11 01:07:16 and as long as those russian jammers aren't turned on! Apr 11 01:07:27 I thought they were turned off a few years back? Apr 11 01:07:44 sbromwich: THANK you! :) This is helping clear up a lot! Apr 11 01:07:45 although I suppose now they can afford the power to run the damn things again ;-) Apr 11 01:07:49 :) Apr 11 01:07:55 donrhummy: YAMW Apr 11 01:08:31 donrhummy: you might want to go googling for more detail on gps acquisition methods in general - there's I think 6 different ways of doing it Apr 11 01:08:58 if you're trying to make your own google maps app you might be able to come up with a better method (ie, almanacs or similar) Apr 11 01:09:07 also: openstreetmap.org for free map data. Apr 11 01:09:23 * sbromwich has mapped out his city, have you mapped out your's? Apr 11 01:09:33 Thanks, I will. Really, though, I'd think all this should be black boxed to apps and the gps service should simply tell you the expected accuracy Apr 11 01:09:46 mmmm... not necessarily Apr 11 01:09:55 some of us want to dig fairly deep into this stuff Apr 11 01:10:17 that's true... Apr 11 01:10:22 there's also a lot more info from a gps receiver than just lat/lon Apr 11 01:10:36 is openstreetmap.org info enough to replace google maps api? Apr 11 01:10:42 I've got a GPS that tracks huge amounts of info in the NMEA log Apr 11 01:10:52 yeah, openlayers.org Apr 11 01:11:22 http://www.fop.ns.ca/stevemap.html Apr 11 01:11:27 see how little I get out. Apr 11 01:12:01 the marker down by the shopping mall is I think where the cell tower triangulation guesses I am Apr 11 01:12:09 THANKS! That's great stuff. Can those (openstreetmap, openlayers) handle translating from names of businesses, or addresses to map locations? Apr 11 01:12:18 there's a chaffing great big granite hill in the way that, um, doesn't help so much Apr 11 01:12:37 not sure, ask on the osm mailing list or look at the osm wiki Apr 11 01:13:12 I know they're mapping down to the level of street addresses now, I completed enough of Halifax before they started doing that Apr 11 01:13:56 they're also the best source of maps for cyclists, in case that's at all relevant to you Apr 11 01:14:01 particularly in .eu Apr 11 01:14:01 cool! I'll look into their licensing. Thanks again for your help! Apr 11 01:14:08 YAMW Apr 11 01:14:18 licensing is CC Apr 11 01:14:32 funny you should mention that, I am BIG into cycling and actually am putting together a nav app for cycling! Apr 11 01:14:34 LOL Apr 11 01:14:48 ok, hang on a sec and I'll show you something you'll be impressed by Apr 11 01:15:21 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.6578&lon=-63.6118&zoom=12&layers=00B0FTF Apr 11 01:15:48 contour mapping with routes of interest to cyclists highlighted Apr 11 01:16:13 click + and select "cycle map" if it didn't send you to the right map style. Apr 11 01:16:45 sbromwich: that is awesome Apr 11 01:16:46 donrhummy: I would be interested in helping you out with that app. Apr 11 01:17:15 ~20000km of cycling to map all that. Apr 11 01:17:40 though the 100 series highways I had to cadge rides from friends Apr 11 01:17:53 now I've seeded the area with enough data other people are taking over Apr 11 01:18:28 my bike trip this summer is specifically to map out some of the areas I missed last year in BFNS Apr 11 01:19:14 sbromwich: thanks, I'm sure I will need help. Apr 11 01:19:53 I'm no userspace programmer but I'll be happy to beta for you ;-) Apr 11 01:20:46 sbromwich: one thing I was interested in doing was giving riders the ability to mark a specific point on their route as having a pothole (or whatever) and the app would send a message with the location to that area's transportation dept. Apr 11 01:21:08 that would be awesome Apr 11 01:21:11 can the pre connect to things like a bluetooth gps? Apr 11 01:21:32 http://www.cyclehalifax.ca have got a similar project on the go but I think it's all manual Apr 11 01:21:53 you might want to talk to chris poulain there, I think he wrote the code for it Apr 11 01:23:09 thanks, I'll do that. Apr 11 01:23:14 tell him I sent you Apr 11 01:23:30 I'm a past director, he might pay more attention ;-) Apr 11 01:23:59 I'd like to do a cycling-capable nav app that gets smarter over time because users contribute info (like: selecting a section and saying there's no bike path) Apr 11 01:24:09 what's your email? Apr 11 01:24:50 msged Apr 11 01:25:45 Wait, is that your email address? @ what? Apr 11 01:26:33 fop.ns.ca Apr 11 01:26:36 is my domain Apr 11 01:27:12 I am one of the few people left in canada that is still using a provincial domain Apr 11 01:27:14 <-- lazy Apr 11 01:27:17 ah, cool. So you're in Canada - I have a friend from Canada that bike across the entire country about 5 years ago. Apr 11 01:27:26 yeah, I want to do that at some point Apr 11 01:27:34 oh, are you on facebook? Apr 11 01:27:35 random Apr 11 01:27:51 sam vekemans can probably give you more mapping info on there Apr 11 01:28:31 No. Sorry but I am 100% against Zzuckergberg and how he came to "create" facebook. LOL, but everyone I know uses it Apr 11 01:28:34 http://www.acrosscanadatrails.com/ Apr 11 01:28:42 that's one of his sites Apr 11 01:28:51 I'm sure he'd love to see his data reused on the pre Apr 11 01:29:22 cool, I'll see if I can contact him. Maybe he's on twitter? Apr 11 01:29:58 yup, he is Apr 11 01:30:19 because he made the mistake once of linking his twitter feed to facebook, then his facebook feed to twitter Apr 11 01:30:19 I wish cycling was as respected in the US as in Canada. Sigh. Apr 11 01:30:24 that was a day of mirth and woe. Apr 11 01:30:32 it's not respected in canada Apr 11 01:30:44 I've been hit... I think 8 times now since I came here Apr 11 01:30:52 never even came close in .eu. Apr 11 01:30:54 really?! Everyone I know from Canada loves cycling. That's such a shame Apr 11 01:31:00 not in NS Apr 11 01:31:07 well... Halifax, to be specific Apr 11 01:31:13 Europe's fantastic (except the UK) towards cyclists Apr 11 01:31:24 once I get out in the rural areas it's great Apr 11 01:31:26 heh Apr 11 01:31:34 I used to ride everywhere in the UK Apr 11 01:31:43 it's an absolute pleasure compared to halifax Apr 11 01:31:52 Here it really depends on the area. The south tends to be the worst despite the good weather Apr 11 01:31:59 yeah, I've heard that Apr 11 01:32:04 florida in particular? Apr 11 01:32:15 Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #5 PREEMPT Sun Apr 11 01:25:27 UTC 2010 armv7l unknown Apr 11 01:32:30 Alistair Humphreys bikes across the entire world (well, around the earth through a number of coutnries) and he was asked where was the most dangerous place he biked... Apr 11 01:32:30 Jack87|wIRC: thanks for the test cases, we're finding them a big help Apr 11 01:32:48 and they expected him to mention pakistan and some other middle eastern countries he went through... Apr 11 01:32:55 but he named two places in the southern US Apr 11 01:33:06 yeah, doesn't surprise me Apr 11 01:33:07 sbromwich: I'm glad it's coming useful. I've only seen it act funny during scalling Apr 11 01:33:24 on the phred list there's fairly constant rumblings about the rednecks down there chucking stuff Apr 11 01:34:04 most of the US coast is pretty good towards cyclists but a lot of florida's not. Apr 11 01:34:47 donrhummy: yeah I hear there's some really nice trails down there that take you from... maine to nc? something like that? Apr 11 01:34:52 what kind of biking do you prefer? road biking? Apr 11 01:35:08 all sorts, but most of my riding is utility Apr 11 01:35:27 when I get the chance I like to take my touring bike places it's not meant to go Apr 11 01:35:53 there are but the problem in the US is that over the last 5 years, bike trails have become, "walk-five-abreast and push a stroller and have two dogs and rollerblade all over the road" trails Apr 11 01:36:01 so they're not really for biiking anymore Apr 11 01:36:11 http://www.fop.ns.ca/bike/2009.09.04_ashlake/ for eg Apr 11 01:36:16 yeah, we have the same issue here Apr 11 01:36:37 new trail got built, asphalted just for cyclists... then at every intersection there's a sign requiring cyclists to dismount Apr 11 01:36:44 ergo, very few cyclists bother Apr 11 01:37:00 LOL, I swear no bike trail was ever designed by a cyclist. Apr 11 01:37:17 I've seen pictures of one in australia. Apr 11 01:37:39 2 line wide enough for cyclists, going through pretty much the middle of nowhere, cyclists only Apr 11 01:37:40 I will say that Palm Beach florida is fantastic. It's an island of insanely rich people who...gasp...like cycling! Apr 11 01:37:48 *grin* Apr 11 01:38:02 yeah, right until you get out into the rest of fla, from what I hear Apr 11 01:38:07 You can actually bike on the A1A road 9all along the ocean) for 1.5 hours with no stopping! Apr 11 01:38:14 niiice Apr 11 01:38:33 The funny thing is every cyclist who passes you will have a $15,000 bike - no joke Apr 11 01:38:52 cervelos and the like? Apr 11 01:38:54 yeah Apr 11 01:39:09 I tend to get looked down on because I ride frankenbikes Apr 11 01:39:32 yeah. when I was there last I passed a cycling club of 40 riders and half of themm had Cervelos, Looks, Time bikes Apr 11 01:39:41 usually right up to the point where I ride past em at twice the speed on a 1970's bike book 10 speed with friction shifters and platform pedals ;-) Apr 11 01:39:44 There were at least 5 Look 595 Ultras! Apr 11 01:39:49 jaysus Apr 11 01:39:58 guess some people ahven't been hit by the recession Apr 11 01:40:42 LOL, not at all. A lot of $30 million houses along the A1A Apr 11 01:40:55 I never saw so many ferraris in my life Apr 11 01:41:29 yeah, tough life for some, eh? Apr 11 01:42:05 Yeah, it's tough for them because they probably had to fire 1000 people and move their factory to China. ;) Apr 11 01:42:20 sbromwich: come join me on a ride! :).... I took mine to LA and back (here assuming you were talking about bike w/ engine) Apr 11 01:42:56 Jack87|wIRC: *I'm* the engine ;-) Apr 11 01:42:59 canadian! Apr 11 01:43:31 Yeah, the problem with my engine is that it is a first gen Palm Pre...it's been oreoing on me lately Apr 11 01:43:36 LOL Apr 11 01:44:17 sbromwich, uNiXpSyChO: we could use the idle webos-internals mailing list at google groups for kernel testing mailing list Apr 11 01:44:59 that wouldn't be a bad idea Apr 11 01:45:05 donrhummy: aren't you faced with a crack to? Apr 11 01:45:20 once we can get a kernel that boots and works from the 1.4.1 patch ;-) Apr 11 01:45:51 donrhummy: you really should go get a warenty exchange (be warned if cracked they may call it physical damage and blame you) Apr 11 01:46:04 sbromwich: it was great talking with you, and thank you so much for the help. I need to get going now but I'll let you know of my progress on the app Apr 11 01:46:16 donrhummy: YAMW Apr 11 01:46:26 dtzWill: so 3D games don't work with the rebuilt stock kernel with no patches applied? Apr 11 01:46:37 Jack87|wIRC: I was just joking about my "engine" riding my road bike Apr 11 01:46:59 donrhummy: roger that :) Apr 11 01:47:03 'night! Apr 11 01:47:07 donrhummy: have a good evening Apr 11 01:47:13 night :-) Apr 11 01:48:10 sbromwich: have you looked at any of the old original cpu scalling threads? Apr 11 01:48:22 which ones? Apr 11 01:48:59 sbromwich: I can't remember been almost a year.... but the issues I mentioned were addressed there Apr 11 01:49:34 sbromwich: few work arounds but no actual fixes perhaps worth checking out. I would find and link you but I'm on wirc Apr 11 01:49:35 ah ok Apr 11 01:50:10 I know it's fixable because I got the 1.4.0 kernel doing it... I think it might be random luck with the right alignment of a buffer somewhere though :-/ Apr 11 01:51:55 sbromwich: intresting. Apr 11 01:51:58 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/192181-stable-cpu-frequency-scaling-app-here.html Apr 11 01:52:51 thanks :-) Apr 11 01:53:25 hunting on overclocked pre is not so bad haha Apr 11 01:53:32 yeah, I already followed that approach with my perl power daemon Apr 11 01:53:41 heh Apr 11 01:55:08 there was another thread still looking for it. Apr 11 01:56:20 yeah, I think he's hooked into /var/log/updated.log (or whatever makes that) and keying off that Apr 11 01:56:52 these 5 min kernel builds are taking too long Apr 11 01:56:56 any use to you? or is this something you are already experimenting with Apr 11 01:57:09 you can have a remote login to my netbook uNiXpSyChO Apr 11 01:57:17 Jack87|wIRC: yeah, I'm just reading through Apr 11 01:57:59 sbromwich: is it a Cray? ;) Apr 11 01:58:31 model name : Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N450 @ 1.66GHz Apr 11 01:58:36 "dual" processor! Apr 11 01:59:07 is that faster than a "dual" core Celeron? ;) Apr 11 01:59:25 perhaps future kernel selecter app will have option to turn scalling off while using media apps Apr 11 01:59:37 in theory Apr 11 01:59:51 Jack87|wIRC: that's what the up_threshold is supposed to detect Apr 11 02:00:08 in fact... I might try setting that ludicrously low after this kernel boots as part of the test Apr 11 02:01:03 uNiXpSyChO: did you see the autobuild kernels were now building ipkgs? Apr 11 02:01:23 media apps are picky as they scale to the speed of the cpu. so running at 125 might not bump up the cpu speed. Apr 11 02:01:46 ohhhhh? Apr 11 02:01:48 uNiXpSyChO: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=hardware/postinst.kernel Apr 11 02:01:53 rwhitby: yep. i saw. and i heard someone is going to release it Apr 11 02:02:13 uNiXpSyChO: no, caj2008 has asked Jason to repackage the script Apr 11 02:02:35 Linux palm-webos-device 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #9 Wed Mar 17 23:05:35 EDT 2010 armv7l unknown Apr 11 02:02:38 cam++ Apr 11 02:02:43 uNiXpSyChO: apparent the request was for a com.mediafire.xxyyzz appid Apr 11 02:02:58 rwhitby: Apr 11 02:03:15 uNiXpSyChO: so the postinst.kernel packaging looks like it will be for alpha testing here Apr 11 02:03:25 youtube++ Apr 11 02:03:38 uNiXpSyChO: I suggested to Jason to keep the old appid Apr 11 02:03:45 rwhitby: the postinst script looks solid. Apr 11 02:04:27 uNiXpSyChO: I'll do a prerm too, and appid, so you can orange+tap a kernel to remove it Apr 11 02:04:29 rwhitby: was it mentioned why release an ipk based on something autobuilt now? Apr 11 02:05:00 uNiXpSyChO: I have no desire for the autobuilt kernel to go anywhere near PreCentral in the next few weks Apr 11 02:05:01 rwhitby: an icon to remove would be cool. i havent figured out how to do that. Apr 11 02:05:07 mp3++ Apr 11 02:05:20 I might have a solid kernel here Apr 11 02:05:28 any other suggestions for tests? Apr 11 02:05:35 uNiXpSyChO: are you set up for building from preware/build.git/hardware/uber-kernel-pre ? Apr 11 02:05:37 sbromwich: working? i am still unstripping my kernel to see which option breaks it. Apr 11 02:05:44 so far Apr 11 02:05:56 palm-webos-device / # uptime Apr 11 02:05:57 im having difficulties exploring all the options to my phone. a friend of mine told me about preware and i need help installing it Apr 11 02:05:58 23:05:48 up 6 min, 0 users, load average: 0.53, 1.39, 0.78 Apr 11 02:06:00 palm-webos-device / # Apr 11 02:06:06 obviously it's therefore perfect. Apr 11 02:06:14 charhollow: http://install.preware.org/ Apr 11 02:06:14 I think it might be the io schedulers Apr 11 02:06:41 uNiXpSyChO: try killing all but anticipatory and noop, disable block io tracking Apr 11 02:07:03 let me GMST and I'll post up a kernel + config for you Apr 11 02:07:10 rwhitby: not yet. i was to busy tweaking kernels. and sbromwich has me busy. Apr 11 02:07:39 sbromwich: i'll try that next... booting a kernel now Apr 11 02:07:51 sbromwich: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/195875-cpu-scaling-fixes-improve-battery-life-significantly.html Apr 11 02:08:58 Jack87|wIRC: according to that post Palm isnt using power savings in the kernel. hmm Apr 11 02:09:17 did you test 3d games? (not that I've herd of any issues with them) Apr 11 02:10:06 uNiXpSyChO: old posts so keep that in mind when going through it. Apr 11 02:11:43 Jack87|wIRC: Palm was always doing power savings. just not the way people know of. Apr 11 02:11:56 no 3d games but I have some that some demos someone kindly sent me Apr 11 02:12:30 I'm not sayin they weren't. :) I'm saying the post is from agust. much more digging has been done since. Apr 11 02:12:40 only threw it out there as refrence Apr 11 02:12:46 echo 10000000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/sampling_rate Apr 11 02:12:51 errrrr little bit excessive. Apr 11 02:13:12 that's... 3 orders of magnitude greater than default? Apr 11 02:13:22 yeah, palm is using cpuidle for power savings Apr 11 02:13:37 "race to idle" Apr 11 02:16:19 * phil_bw wanders by Apr 11 02:16:25 Jack87|wIRC: got your msg, thanks a lot :-) Apr 11 02:17:10 sbromwich: roger that. I'm going to pry myself away from this for a bit Apr 11 02:17:17 bye all. Apr 11 02:17:21 good luck ;-) Apr 11 02:24:00 rwhitby: yes I had patches, sorry. do 3d games work for you with same kernel Apr 11 02:25:15 2010-04-11T02:24:53.357482Z [21942] palm-webos-device kern.info kernel: [21942.170000] minicore_launch: CRASH! glyder2.exe(13398) received 11. Waiting up to 60s for minicore to attach. Apr 11 02:27:11 dtzWill: Process /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/com.glu.app.glyder2-free/glyder2/glyder2.exe (14164) received SIGSEGV(11). Apr 11 02:27:40 so my rebuild of the Palm 1.4.1 kernel from source is not completely functional Apr 11 02:27:44 hey which Atom is the dual core again? Apr 11 02:28:00 rwhitby: perhaps it doesn't handle SDL_SetVideoMode returning NULL or the like if they're requesting a GLES context and can't get it? Apr 11 02:28:10 rwhitby: my apps that are GLES fail, but don't segfault Apr 11 02:28:26 dtzWill: look in /var/log/reports/minicores/ Apr 11 02:29:21 BTW, have uploadd disabled if you're testing kernels - Palm doesn't need additional rxdx reports Apr 11 02:30:18 i wonder if all the homebrew really lowers the SNR of their rxdx reports Apr 11 02:30:29 rwhitby: yeah the ones I tried have reports there. I do have an Xsdl one--but it did /not/ segfault when I ran it by hand. Apr 11 02:31:10 may need to grab the stock kernel from the doctor and release that. it's GPL, so that's kosher. Apr 11 02:31:27 rwhitby: good call re: uploadd Apr 11 02:32:33 classic: "i typed cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdldoom/bin in my phone but it just google searches it. plz get me started on changing my keys for doom on my pre. thx" Apr 11 02:33:20 lol Apr 11 02:33:57 what good is a shell without a cannon to shoot it Apr 11 02:35:52 yeah, i think we ended up adding some sort of filtering on our end Apr 11 02:36:00 because the SNR was actually skewed a bit Apr 11 02:36:28 rwhitby: glyder2 works with my kernel build Apr 11 02:36:41 uNiXpSyChO: excellent Apr 11 02:36:43 rwhitby: but not when i used a newer compiler Apr 11 02:37:17 rwhitby: what compiler is the autobuilder using? Apr 11 02:37:21 version that is Apr 11 02:37:40 uNiXpSyChO: cs2008q1 I think Apr 11 02:38:01 geist, interesting .. hopefully it didn't cause anyone too much time to setup the extra filtering Apr 11 02:38:16 rwhitby: my "stable" builds are using 2007q1.something Apr 11 02:38:43 rwhitby: glyder failed when i booted a kernel that was built with 2009q1 Apr 11 02:39:17 uNiXpSyChO: the git repo shows what I'm using Apr 11 02:45:07 2008q1 Apr 11 02:46:34 that could be a problem Apr 11 02:49:02 so i just had a thought while i was in the other room .. it seems like compilers place code together sequentially in binary blobs .. i wonder if it might be significantly more optimal to be able to tell the compiler which code gets called more than most - and which branches are error conditions, and not normally taken .. Apr 11 02:49:21 and if it could try to put the code together in such a way that cachelines could be filled more optimally Apr 11 02:50:38 or if you did do that, if it would just be a wash in the end .. or no noticeable increase in performance Apr 11 02:50:51 the compiler has to match the libgcc to an extent Apr 11 02:53:06 bpadalino: well, cache lines aren't that big Apr 11 02:53:32 only 32 bytes, so generally speaking packing functions in would only help for the first couple instructions of the next function Apr 11 02:53:35 what are they in ARM generally? 128 bytes ? Apr 11 02:53:37 oh, 32 bytes Apr 11 02:53:45 64 bytes on the cortex-a8 Apr 11 02:54:13 uNiXpSyChO: 2008q1 is what the rootfs says Palm is using Apr 11 02:54:22 what it can help is to keep the amount of demand paging down Apr 11 02:54:27 within a 4KB page Apr 11 02:54:35 that does make a difference Apr 11 02:55:00 so you get more efficient memory usage and TLB pressure is reduced Apr 11 02:55:12 that sounds like a net win Apr 11 02:55:24 absolutely Apr 11 02:55:51 geist, any idea what the cacheline sizes are for current x86 processors ? Apr 11 02:55:58 generally 32 bytes Apr 11 02:56:06 cortex-a8 is kind of an anomaly Apr 11 02:56:13 so a9 goes back to 32-bytes ? Apr 11 02:56:17 rwhitby: hmm. strange how it works on my kernel with 2007q1 build and not witha newer compiler build. Apr 11 02:56:23 uNiXpSyChO: actually, I'm wrong. rootfs says 2007q3-51 Apr 11 02:56:37 uNiXpSyChO: I'll change the autobuilder to use 2007q3-51 Apr 11 02:56:37 yeah Apr 11 02:56:43 rwhitby: cool Apr 11 02:56:47 very interesting Apr 11 02:57:27 uNiXpSyChO: ah, our cross-compile repo is using 2007q3-51, but for some reason the build.git was using 2008q1 - must be historical Apr 11 02:57:39 I'm fading, time to go take my pills and hit the sack, night :-) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 11 02:59:56 2010