**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 23 02:59:56 2010 Apr 23 03:01:01 had to have a reason for 300+ battery pulls Apr 23 03:01:12 preoccupied, I think we need something that isn't as subjective as running Asphalt5 Apr 23 03:01:13 300 +? damn Apr 23 03:02:14 preoccupied, http://lbs.sourceforge.net/ Apr 23 03:02:23 something in there might be useful. Apr 23 03:02:36 hmm Apr 23 03:02:42 or a YES loop. Apr 23 03:03:06 what's wrong with nbench? Apr 23 03:03:57 try 7 nbenches simultaneously I guess and see if we get it to over 60? Apr 23 03:04:41 and tail -f the logfile to see if its going to trend that way. Apr 23 03:04:49 jhojho: other ironic note: constant refinining of timing and experimenting got kernel source diff from several hundred lines to I think 4 Apr 23 03:05:07 ka6sox: put it in an oven Apr 23 03:05:12 4 lines?!? Apr 23 03:05:35 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=kernels/patches.git;a=commit;h=16fbb975827aa7187db8466cb9e2d5b324f73e5b Apr 23 03:06:11 3 lines Apr 23 03:06:23 rest is fluff or doc Apr 23 03:07:24 I saw that patch Apr 23 03:07:29 and laughed Apr 23 03:07:40 I like your mods to the printk Apr 23 03:08:25 made it easir to spot errors in dmesg :-) Apr 23 03:14:48 whats the flash block size on pre? Apr 23 03:16:47 4096? Apr 23 03:16:56 ta Apr 23 03:17:12 player with re_ahead_kb Apr 23 03:17:15 ing Apr 23 03:17:22 root@palm-webos-device:/# blockdev --getbsz /dev/mmcblk0 Apr 23 03:17:23 4096 Apr 23 03:18:09 whee Apr 23 03:18:11 jhojho frowned at me for playing with the block drivers :-) Apr 23 03:18:20 heh Apr 23 03:18:30 playing with access priorities Apr 23 03:18:33 on the uber kernel no Apr 23 03:18:35 w Apr 23 03:18:43 now to set up a upstart script Apr 23 03:28:00 running distributed.net client on the pre... Apr 23 03:31:08 looks like 720 speed is 25% faster Apr 23 03:34:07 dnet results https://pastee.org/eka79 Apr 23 03:34:56 StrongARM? isnt that dead? Apr 23 03:35:26 old Apr 23 03:35:49 i havent seem a StrongARM since i worked at DEC years ago. Apr 23 03:36:12 my newton had a strongarm Apr 23 03:36:15 iirc Apr 23 03:36:34 StrongARM was the best back then.... like 10 years ago Apr 23 03:37:11 bummed that the newton never too off Apr 23 03:47:06 just installed govnah. Apr 23 03:47:17 what a pos that is Apr 23 03:47:20 strange it does not show the current governor Apr 23 03:47:25 all i get is ... Apr 23 03:47:28 yeah Apr 23 03:47:29 for userspace Apr 23 03:47:30 that version doesnt Apr 23 03:47:35 the repo version does Apr 23 03:47:40 nice and cool though Apr 23 03:47:44 29C Apr 23 03:47:46 yay Apr 23 03:47:47 it's very alpha :p Apr 23 03:48:03 that version will eat your ram and cpu like its going out of style Apr 23 03:48:07 lol Apr 23 03:48:09 heh Apr 23 03:48:18 it gets weird dips too Apr 23 03:48:23 yeah Apr 23 03:48:36 dipping down to 25, cant possibly change that quickly Apr 23 03:48:44 oh, yeah, it skips some Apr 23 03:48:47 idk why Apr 23 03:48:55 but that one is polling entirely too fast Apr 23 03:49:00 it's eventually consistent? Apr 23 03:49:04 =P Apr 23 03:49:29 * oil wants to do the actual governor changing stuff, but doesn't know what they all need/etc Apr 23 03:49:40 and it should be "Coz Random Taglines Are Awesome" Apr 23 03:49:51 oil, well ask away Apr 23 03:50:02 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Govnah#Governor_Settings Apr 23 03:50:20 I would say for a start being able to switch between userspace, conservative, ondemand Apr 23 03:50:53 oil, did you see my recommendation earlier for the graph? ticks and a gradient in the back that matches the green/yellow/red (both optional in a preference pane) Apr 23 03:51:07 yeah, i added some sort of gridlines Apr 23 03:51:13 neat Apr 23 03:51:13 i feel too many will make it ugly though :/ Apr 23 03:51:33 it will .. make them light too .. and very thin Apr 23 03:51:38 govnah needs something like rrdtool for the graphng Apr 23 03:51:40 * oil takes ss of what he has right now Apr 23 03:51:53 i wrote a crappy graphing class Apr 23 03:51:55 lol Apr 23 03:52:00 it somewhat works Apr 23 03:52:08 yeah i wonder if there is a better one out there in the wild that works very well Apr 23 03:52:14 ive seen some pretty nice javascript graphers Apr 23 03:52:22 let me ask my delicious Apr 23 03:52:33 html5 canvas based Apr 23 03:52:43 and can't use any features webos doesn't support Apr 23 03:52:46 (which is a lot) Apr 23 03:52:57 there's flot Apr 23 03:53:05 doh, it's jquery Apr 23 03:53:14 http://i42.tinypic.com/i3c5dj.png Apr 23 03:53:36 oh hrm .. interesting idea of the ticks .. Apr 23 03:54:37 and tapping the first line takes you to a settings page Apr 23 03:54:43 that right now only has a governor dropdown Apr 23 03:54:47 http://thedesignmag.com/16-javascript-graph-resources-for-creating-stylish-chart.html Apr 23 03:54:48 populated by the service Apr 23 03:55:46 yeah you need some x and y axis ticks Apr 23 03:56:06 do i? Apr 23 03:56:23 it looks a little odd without Apr 23 03:56:24 is it for hard core analysis? or something pretty to look at that gives you a general idea of how things are going? Apr 23 03:56:31 but maybe it'll look horrible with Apr 23 03:56:37 the problem i see right now is that it's an online graph, meaning samples are coming in over time - we don't have the full set .. so something that works dynamically is best .. Apr 23 03:56:38 not hard core Apr 23 03:57:02 the vertical grid changes with the scale of the graph Apr 23 03:57:05 the sections get smaller Apr 23 03:57:10 oil, i still think there should be some idea of time .. Apr 23 03:57:43 i've been thinking about how to do it but not ugly Apr 23 03:57:49 right now, i think its prety dang sexy :) Apr 23 03:57:54 this is more sparkline-ish which is fine Apr 23 03:58:06 it would be nice to graph dT/dt where T is temperature and t is time as well .. to see rate of changes Apr 23 03:58:09 I rather have the ability to set params Apr 23 03:58:19 make that set/change Apr 23 03:58:33 like i said, my graph class is shitty :) Apr 23 03:58:38 lol Apr 23 03:58:53 I shot you a link to potential replacements. Apr 23 03:59:00 yeah, im lookin at em Apr 23 03:59:44 gak they all seem to want jquery Apr 23 04:00:07 bpadalino: one options is always to have simple sexy graph on main scene Apr 23 04:00:16 true Apr 23 04:00:17 and tap to get more in-depth Apr 23 04:00:27 oil there's also chronoscope Apr 23 04:00:28 http://ajaxian.com/archives/chronoscope-gwt-based-charting-library Apr 23 04:00:33 and if we did that, i would dumb down the main scene graph even more Apr 23 04:00:42 the demo was pretty impressive Apr 23 04:02:01 maybe if i payed more attention to math in school i would be a better graph developer :) Apr 23 04:02:10 hehe Apr 23 04:02:11 lol Apr 23 04:02:17 math is fun Apr 23 04:02:28 I was good at math in school. now i suck at math Apr 23 04:02:35 sad really. Apr 23 04:02:36 and coming up with tricks to make it more efficient is fun too Apr 23 04:03:06 feel free to attempt to make my graphs more better :) Apr 23 04:03:13 sadly there is 0 comments Apr 23 04:03:21 0 comments for your graphs ? Apr 23 04:03:28 in the code Apr 23 04:03:31 ah Apr 23 04:03:39 i have never written javascript before .. Apr 23 04:03:42 or done a canvas element Apr 23 04:03:45 maybe i will give it a shot Apr 23 04:03:48 ah Apr 23 04:03:50 i drank coffee during the short movies tonight Apr 23 04:03:59 this is only my second canvas attempt Apr 23 04:03:59 so i may be a awake for a while Apr 23 04:04:05 and the first one was never released Apr 23 04:04:20 lol, the numbers on the graph are not even in the canvas Apr 23 04:04:27 they float over it in divs Apr 23 04:04:28 haha Apr 23 04:05:19 reading a tutorial now Apr 23 04:05:48 so if you do make it so it can be super complicated Apr 23 04:05:54 make sure it can also be dumbed down for the main scene Apr 23 04:08:12 sure Apr 23 04:09:47 the optware version of crontab only works down to the minute. Apr 23 04:09:59 lol Apr 23 04:10:21 and the Palm one doesn't work at all. Apr 23 04:11:18 oh thats great. Apr 23 04:11:22 phone just crashed Apr 23 04:11:38 awesome Apr 23 04:11:49 its probably cron's fault Apr 23 04:12:11 doubt it Apr 23 04:20:42 anyone have trouble loading package information for palm-catalog after installing? Apr 23 04:21:38 ok... anyone know a good site for figuring out this problem? a forum perhaps? Apr 23 04:24:30 justin_: disable the palm-catalog feed, then restart preware Apr 23 04:25:24 thanks. im trying now Apr 23 04:25:40 got it, thanks! Apr 23 04:52:34 somebody (probably ME) needs to add that information to the wiki so we don't get that question 10X / Day. Apr 23 04:52:54 preoccupied, thanks for your help today...good progress made. Apr 23 04:54:00 or dont default the catalog feed Apr 23 04:54:14 people can add them now Apr 23 04:54:15 thats a better solution Apr 23 04:54:27 but keep the web and beta feeds default Apr 23 04:54:36 * oil should redo the main scene to give hella options Apr 23 04:54:40 okay so just those 2 feeds on and the rest add. Apr 23 04:54:45 along with package type breakdown, feed breakdown on the main page Apr 23 04:54:48 if you want to hit it that way Apr 23 04:54:53 well keep the palm-catalog but off Apr 23 04:55:10 right keep the feeds but just not enabled. Apr 23 04:55:18 right, people could add it like they do the webos-beta feed Apr 23 04:55:26 yep Apr 23 04:55:38 Make it so, Mr. Oil :D Apr 23 04:55:45 thats a service thing... Apr 23 04:55:46 xD Apr 23 04:55:56 lol Apr 23 04:56:01 heh Apr 23 04:56:07 or maybe just a packaging thing Apr 23 04:56:16 that they're in the package to be copied by the install script Apr 23 04:56:19 I guess that means we need to Bug it. Apr 23 04:56:39 0.9.4 coming? Apr 23 04:56:51 094? Apr 23 04:57:07 or just stop futzing around with the classic and make alpha beta. Apr 23 04:57:28 apparently i have to change the app to make the transition easier Apr 23 04:58:22 for now I guess we could teach infobot to tell them to turn off that feed. Apr 23 04:58:58 ~botsnak Apr 23 04:59:22 heh...if I can figure it out. Apr 23 04:59:31 ~botsnack Apr 23 04:59:31 :), ka6sox Apr 23 05:00:41 iirc that happens when you go from classic to Alpha right? Apr 23 05:04:32 ka6sox: yeah Apr 23 05:04:53 I'm going to make palm cat and themes installed but disabled by defaul Apr 23 05:04:54 t Apr 23 05:05:15 so the app tells the user "it was probably installed" Apr 23 05:05:49 yeah, I think with the C service we can be more decisive about that message Apr 23 05:06:21 the probably is making people scared Apr 23 05:06:31 so im going to recheck and say "oh, yeah, we just checked again and it is running, now we're going to restart preware, that ok?" with the ok, and later buttons Apr 23 05:06:42 whereas these days with the C service it's pretty much 99% likely it will be installed properly Apr 23 05:07:24 or we should just have the new service, kill preware when it starts Apr 23 05:07:32 and relaunch the new version Apr 23 05:08:30 one sec Apr 23 05:09:39 rwhitby which webos-internals guys are coming? me, Jaques and who? Apr 23 05:10:03 Rick_work: swisstomcat Apr 23 05:10:21 ahhh. Ok. Apr 23 05:11:16 And what's Jaques real name again>? (I've been up for > 30 hours and I'm fading fast.) Apr 23 05:12:43 Rick_work, see /msg Apr 23 05:14:07 oil: ok, what should we do Apr 23 05:14:35 oil: we have two packages being turned into one. the postinst of the package removes the second one. the postinst of the package stops the java service and starts the C service Apr 23 05:14:50 oil: the rescan will probably restart the application, right? Apr 23 05:14:58 rwhitby: it should Apr 23 05:15:07 rescan has been weird recently Apr 23 05:15:25 so we need to check the postinst has been successful by just doing a status method call Apr 23 05:15:37 and if the status method call succeeds, then the package was installed correctly Apr 23 05:15:50 (this is for org.webosinternals.preware only of course) Apr 23 05:16:40 oil: agreed on the rescan weirdness Apr 23 05:16:52 are we sure its still needed? Apr 23 05:17:00 oil: yes, for the icon to show Apr 23 05:17:25 oil: we should also take the opportunity to remove all references to Package Manager Service from the Preware app too. Apr 23 05:17:41 (in messages to users) Apr 23 05:18:00 where do I make PreWare feature requests? Apr 23 05:18:10 And maybe see what's already there so I don't duplicate? Apr 23 05:18:18 MikeHoncho: Talk page on the wiki Apr 23 05:18:24 koo Apr 23 05:18:34 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application_talk:Preware Apr 23 05:19:01 http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/preware/roadmap shows the ones we've accepted Apr 23 05:19:27 the rest sit in purgatory, unless someone submits code :) Apr 23 05:19:46 BTW, there is no capital W in Preware Apr 23 05:20:02 Sorry. I'll flog myself immediately. Apr 23 05:20:04 ;) Apr 23 05:20:12 whatever floats your boat ;) Apr 23 05:20:54 rwhitby: so no chance to edit that wiki page? Apr 23 05:20:54 MikeHoncho: you can also just blurt out the suggestion here while oil or myself are listening. if it's super interesting and easy it could get done on the spot. Apr 23 05:21:08 oil: ah, let me do that now Apr 23 05:21:19 Well, it might be a simple one. Apr 23 05:21:33 I just want to install a new theme without having to uninstall the old one first. Apr 23 05:21:42 i tweaked the main page some more: http://i42.tinypic.com/i3c5dj.png Apr 23 05:21:50 oil: have you got that URL I sent you? Apr 23 05:22:01 what url? Apr 23 05:22:13 the linux web page for cpufreq stuff Apr 23 05:22:38 oh, i dont remember Apr 23 05:23:29 http://www.pantz.org/software/cpufreq/usingcpufreqonlinux.html Apr 23 05:25:05 * halfhalo_hotel likes this hotel Apr 23 05:25:12 so the way it should work is: changing the dropdown calls to change the governor Apr 23 05:25:16 then it loads the form to change things Apr 23 05:25:34 * halfhalo_hotel has hdmi in to his hotels tv Apr 23 05:26:42 interesting paragraph here. Apr 23 05:26:43 Completely Fair Scheduler (task scheduler) introduced in 2.6.23 seems to be causing problems (I think it's the scheduler??) on trying to set the up_threshold with ondemand. Let's say you have 2 or more processors and a task that is running that wants 100% of a processor. The scheduler is now so "fair" it bounces the task from one CPU to the next which causes each CPU to never get above the default ondemand up_threshold of 80%. This c Apr 23 05:26:43 the ondemand governor to never let any processor get to it's full frequency and complete the task faster. Lowering the up_threshold to something like 20% fixes it. The task seems to stay on one processor long enough to get it above 20%. Then when it bounces back it's already scaled up from the last bounce. This keeps it up until the process is complete for all cores. Apr 23 05:30:02 oil: wiki page updated Apr 23 05:30:18 jhojho: can you check http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Govnah#Governor_Settings please ? Apr 23 05:31:13 i dont see anything there. Apr 23 05:31:27 performance + 800mhz = an overheated Pre. Apr 23 05:31:28 for #Governo_Settings Apr 23 05:31:49 awesome Apr 23 05:32:18 oil: I updated the screenshot Apr 23 05:32:39 whoops .. gradients don't seem to work in the canvas in webos just yet Apr 23 05:32:59 lol Apr 23 05:33:04 yeah, the support sucks Apr 23 05:33:17 * halfhalo_hotel is going to get horribly overpriced hotel fod Apr 23 05:33:35 oil, the good part is that translate and scale both work! Apr 23 05:33:55 * jhojho is watching supernatural instead Apr 23 05:34:18 oh Apr 23 05:34:23 that would make pinch-to-zoom easier Apr 23 05:34:30 oh yes indeed Apr 23 05:34:33 and scaling and whatnot Apr 23 05:34:48 pinch-to-zoom returns a percent Apr 23 05:34:55 ah Apr 23 05:35:28 http://lebowski.eatcheese.biz/~bpadalino/canvas/html/graph.html - that is what i have so far .. i haven't drawn any graph points yet .. Apr 23 05:36:07 and in webos, the gradient from red -> yellow looks orange .. and yellow -> green looks light green Apr 23 05:36:15 so i think they just average it and use the single color for the fill Apr 23 05:39:02 yeah, thats no good Apr 23 05:52:02 doing animations in canvas isn't too bad actually Apr 23 05:53:35 yeah Apr 23 05:53:55 * oil wrote a tower-defense game that wasn't any fun Apr 23 05:53:57 but it worked Apr 23 05:53:58 haha Apr 23 05:54:29 congrats Apr 23 06:01:21 oil, are you seeing large Jumps in temps in the Govnah logging? Apr 23 06:14:54 sometimes Apr 23 06:29:42 oil: are all the service methods you've tried so far giving reasonable results in JSON ? Apr 23 06:31:21 * halfhalo has nachos Apr 23 06:45:26 rwhitby: yeah Apr 23 06:45:46 ugggg Apr 23 06:46:02 oil: as long as an integer one and a string one work for get and set, then they all should ork Apr 23 06:46:02 Sharing an evdo connecting is not fun Apr 23 06:46:05 work Apr 23 06:47:04 I must say mobile hotspot works great Apr 23 07:10:20 rwhitby: once we figure out what all we want to log, we should put them all in one method Apr 23 07:10:29 and have the service append it to a file Apr 23 07:10:42 every time the app calls it Apr 23 07:23:04 oil: sounds good Apr 23 07:23:22 oil: got anything I can test yet? Apr 23 07:23:26 no Apr 23 07:23:33 lol Apr 23 07:23:41 well, it reads the values Apr 23 07:23:45 and switches to another scene Apr 23 07:23:49 with a dropdown that does nothing Apr 23 07:23:57 ill get the options in there tomorrow evening :/ Apr 23 07:24:07 and make it so it actually works Apr 23 07:24:38 is there a 0.1.1 tag which displays the current governor and speed? Apr 23 07:24:54 no tag Apr 23 07:25:32 for the names of the options Apr 23 07:25:39 do we want to do it just as it is with the _'s? Apr 23 07:26:49 yeah Apr 23 07:26:56 comfy bed is comfy Apr 23 07:27:19 perfect for instaling preware Apr 23 07:27:20 ok Apr 23 07:27:36 oil: oh, hang on, what do you mena? Apr 23 07:27:38 mean? Apr 23 07:27:45 do what just as it is? Apr 23 07:27:56 like im going to turn sampling_rate to SAMPLING RATE Apr 23 07:27:58 in the label Apr 23 07:28:17 oh, yeah, that's good Apr 23 07:28:21 for that option Apr 23 07:28:55 oil: is there a commit which matches http://www.webos-internals.org/images/b/ba/Govnah_ss1.png ? Apr 23 07:29:12 i believe the one thats there does Apr 23 07:29:13 (I like how you got the arnie quote in there) Apr 23 07:29:26 * oil didn't do that Apr 23 07:29:44 well i mean, not on purpose Apr 23 07:29:46 is it a rare one? Apr 23 07:29:53 it's a half-prob one Apr 23 07:29:56 15% Apr 23 07:30:14 in that version, tapping the current governor line takes you to the governor settings scene Apr 23 07:30:16 with a dropdown Apr 23 07:30:19 that does nothing Apr 23 07:30:32 ok Apr 23 07:31:41 and current frequency updates every 5 seconds like the temp does Apr 23 07:31:47 i didn't know what other stats we wanted on the main scene Apr 23 07:32:09 the ADC only runs @ 32khz so don't poll it too often. Apr 23 07:32:26 they're both at 5 seconds Apr 23 07:32:31 should i slow one of them down? Apr 23 07:32:34 can we graph the freq on the same graph as the temp (scale on right side)? Apr 23 07:32:54 rwhitby, i was actually thinking about making the graph smaller Apr 23 07:33:03 putting two graphs Apr 23 07:33:06 yeah Apr 23 07:33:13 oil, I think we can do 1 second. .5sec may not get a good result. Apr 23 07:33:14 one behind each normal-sized line showing hte current freq/temp Apr 23 07:33:16 maybe battery load and temp too - 4 graphs Apr 23 07:33:37 tap to pop the graph in a bigger scene with more features Apr 23 07:34:08 sounds good to me Apr 23 07:34:49 ok, 0.1.1 is in the feed Apr 23 07:35:22 did you add the write out everything method? Apr 23 07:36:34 nope Apr 23 07:42:07 is there stats other then those two that we would want on the main scene? Apr 23 07:43:03 cpu temp, cpu freq, maybe load average & cpu utilisation, battery drain, battery temp Apr 23 07:43:25 going to add methods for those others? :) Apr 23 07:43:43 if I want them graphed I guess ;) Apr 23 07:43:47 govnah becomes baby-ubermon Apr 23 07:44:01 * oil copied the mhz style from that app, haha Apr 23 07:44:02 you can't control what you can't measure Apr 23 07:44:09 right Apr 23 07:45:34 5 little graphs on the main scene, i wonder how good it would do :) Apr 23 07:45:44 oil: current governor doesn't seem to be updating on main screen Apr 23 07:45:52 it doesn't save Apr 23 07:45:59 its just a dropdown Apr 23 07:46:01 there is no onchange Apr 23 07:46:14 I changed it outside of govnah (using cpuscaler) Apr 23 07:46:22 it got it right on restart Apr 23 07:46:22 its not updating on the fly Apr 23 07:46:39 we'll put subscriptions in for that :) Apr 23 07:47:17 i moved the update to activate() Apr 23 07:47:43 so going to the other scene changing it and returning would cause it to get the new value Apr 23 07:47:54 ok Apr 23 07:50:33 ok, I think it is time to install Uber-Kernel on my production device Apr 23 07:50:45 (now that I can actually see what it is doing) Apr 23 07:51:08 * oil goes to sleep Apr 23 07:51:19 nn oil Apr 23 07:51:23 thx oil Apr 23 07:51:26 * halfhalo is to wired for sleep Apr 23 07:51:41 you've gotten govnah to the point where I start using it in production Apr 23 12:32:44 Hi Apr 23 12:32:58 g'day Apr 23 12:33:13 i hope iam right here ;) Apr 23 12:33:45 i try to cross-compile a sdl game for webos on ubuntu with scratchbox2 Apr 23 12:33:55 ok Apr 23 12:34:14 but i stuck on the error for the missing png.h Apr 23 12:34:21 how can i do? :) Apr 23 12:34:35 and sorry 4 my baaaaad englisch :) Apr 23 12:34:44 what is your native language? Apr 23 12:34:50 german Apr 23 12:35:10 well, your english is 1000 times better than my german ;) Apr 23 12:35:16 ok :) Apr 23 12:35:33 and? can you help me? Apr 23 12:35:38 what version of ubuntu? Apr 23 12:35:40 rwhitby: I need to consider staging common/ with the last top level make stage command. I just need to clean up common first Apr 23 12:35:50 latest stable# Apr 23 12:35:52 zsoc_wirc: ok Apr 23 12:36:01 karmic... whatever :) Apr 23 12:36:08 Evo: "latest" is never a valid answer to "which version" :) Apr 23 12:36:12 desktop or server? Apr 23 12:36:24 desktop Apr 23 12:36:56 ok, be aware that we only support the WIDK on Ubuntu 9.10 32bit Server, but we'll continue anyway Apr 23 12:37:13 what command were you running, and where did it get up to? Apr 23 12:37:14 WIDK? Apr 23 12:37:30 sb2 -M /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7 Apr 23 12:38:03 and in the source folder "make TILES=y" (the tiles command is for the grphical gui) Apr 23 12:38:23 i have the source from a git rep. Apr 23 12:38:57 keep going with the information ... Apr 23 12:39:09 hum? Apr 23 12:39:14 I'm going to take a wild guess, png headers won't be the only thing he's missing. Apr 23 12:39:40 Evo: imagine all the things I'm making wild guesses about right now, and tell me the answers before I have to guess. Apr 23 12:40:27 rwhitby: your sentence structure is very confusing to non english native speakers ;) Apr 23 12:40:47 what? Apr 23 12:41:00 Evo: try navigating to packaging/common/libpng and 'make stage' Apr 23 12:41:16 in sb2 "mode"? Apr 23 12:41:27 s/packaging/packages Apr 23 12:41:29 EvanDotPro: no Apr 23 12:41:41 Evo: what is the thing you are compiling, and where did it come from? What have you staged already in preparation for compiling it? When did you last update your cross-compile.git checkout? ... Apr 23 12:41:50 the makefiles we use invoke sb2 without the shell Apr 23 12:42:28 ? Apr 23 12:42:55 not so fast please... i have a little problem to understand all what write to me >_< Apr 23 12:44:10 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/ <--- this is the app ii would to try x-compiled Apr 23 12:44:16 Evo: have you used sb2 before? Apr 23 12:44:23 no xD Apr 23 12:44:35 Evo: do you understand "staging" ? Apr 23 12:44:37 i found a "tut" Apr 23 12:44:46 not so really Apr 23 12:45:22 Evo: the package you are trying to compile will depend on other libraries Apr 23 12:45:41 yeah Apr 23 12:45:46 Evo: those libraries need to be staged, so you can link against them Apr 23 12:45:51 and how i can this fix? Apr 23 12:46:01 how i link? ^^ Apr 23 12:46:18 or "staging" ? :) Apr 23 12:46:28 either libpng has not been staged, or your makefile is not set up to find it in the staging area Apr 23 12:46:37 ok Apr 23 12:46:57 so i must compiled the "png.h" lib in sb2? Apr 23 12:47:06 or compile direct on the pre itself, of course Apr 23 12:47:08 WFM Apr 23 12:47:21 WFM? Apr 23 12:47:26 Works For Me Apr 23 12:48:05 hmm.. wich way is easy? Apr 23 12:48:21 no ways are easy Apr 23 12:48:46 but.. so i must compiled the lib on all pre's they dosn't haveß Apr 23 12:48:46 compile on pre is easy but slow. cross compile is hard but fast. Apr 23 12:48:47 find the libpng area, and type "make stage" in there Apr 23 12:48:57 Evo: yes, exactly Apr 23 12:49:14 and again sorry 4 my really baaaaad englisch ;) Apr 23 12:49:18 sbromwich: I disagre, I find the widk to be simpler Apr 23 12:49:20 then examine the link command for the program you are compiling, and make sure it will find the staged libpng headers Apr 23 12:49:22 Evo: I had to resize my /media/internal to create a store-build LV because I was compiling so much Apr 23 12:49:28 than is "hard" better? Apr 23 12:49:49 zsoc_wirc: I disagree, I still believe we should have a front panel toggle switch emulator Apr 23 12:50:05 Evo: hard is more difficult, but the effort you put in may be worth it Apr 23 12:50:26 I was doing full kernel compilations on my pre to give you an idea Apr 23 12:51:26 can any1 give my a step-by-step guid for the hard way to a jedi ;) Apr 23 12:51:40 my = me Apr 23 12:51:50 Evo: have you built this program on the desktop first? Apr 23 12:52:39 yes... Apr 23 12:53:16 and no problems or complications Apr 23 12:53:55 and do you understand how it finds the png header on the desktop? Apr 23 12:54:29 no.. it do it automatically Apr 23 12:54:55 to learn cross-compilation, you will need to know that. Apr 23 12:55:28 read up on include paths and compiler and linker flags Apr 23 12:55:59 on windows i have never linked other libs ... linux is new for me Apr 23 12:56:35 then you should learn a bit more before you start compiling things on a Pre Apr 23 12:56:48 Evo: have you cloned the WIDK ? Apr 23 12:57:46 [14:37] WIDK? <-- ? Apr 23 12:58:50 Evo: where did you get /srv/preware/cross-compile from ? Apr 23 12:58:57 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK Apr 23 12:59:06 that's the WIDK Apr 23 12:59:17 ahh ... *lol* Apr 23 12:59:40 Evo: look at some of the other programs in there, and see how they tell the compiler where to find libraries Apr 23 12:59:48 rwhitby: I think I'm going to create top level make rules for staging headers/libs necessary for building most sdl apps Apr 23 13:00:58 what? Apr 23 13:01:24 no time 4 a little step-by-step guide for me? *smile* Apr 23 13:01:58 Evo: the problem is, we can tell you how to stage the headers you need, but there is no guide to how to link them Apr 23 13:02:11 ahh Apr 23 13:02:27 if we made a 'step-by-step' guide it would be in the wiki, we just haven't had the time Apr 23 13:03:06 Evo: if you're using the sb2 shell, like you mentioned before, most of that 'should' happen for you, if you want to try Apr 23 13:03:10 anyone still running Preware Classic here? Apr 23 13:03:57 * rwhitby decides it's not a good idea to do a preware release late on a friday night Apr 23 13:03:57 here... Apr 23 13:04:09 * rwhitby bbt Apr 23 13:04:14 or you mean the "normal" version and not the "alpha" Apr 23 13:05:46 evo Apr 23 13:06:16 yes? Apr 23 13:06:28 Evo: do you see how the widk is laid out? Apr 23 13:07:28 laid out? Apr 23 13:07:53 can't translate... =/ Apr 23 13:08:17 Evo: yes, you understand the top level of the widk is located /srv/preware/cross-compile ? Apr 23 13:09:01 i hope Apr 23 13:09:12 yes ^^ Apr 23 13:09:36 lol. ok. well 'in' the widk, we have set up (or laid out) makefiles, one for each package we know works Apr 23 13:10:12 you ned libpng, so you need to find it. it will be under 'packages', probably in 'common' or 'sdl' Apr 23 13:11:14 so I was pretty excited to really test save restore after doing a full erase and doctor... Apr 23 13:11:40 mjkjr|wirc: full erase? I hope you backed up the saverestore files... Apr 23 13:11:51 well I either backed up everything on usb besides the saverestore file or I lost it Apr 23 13:12:00 :-( Apr 23 13:12:10 lol Apr 23 13:12:17 no libpng in commons.. and no one in dev-sdl Apr 23 13:13:04 lol, just have to start every game over. I looked all over my pc for saverestore file, how did I not back it up? Apr 23 13:13:30 Evo: hmm.. libpng12 is in media/ Apr 23 13:14:00 ahh ok.. now? Apr 23 13:14:47 I almost wanted to punch myself. out of all the crap I backed up I missed the most important thing. ha Apr 23 13:14:51 Evo: I'm not sure if it is the same lib or not. but if you navigate to that folder, do 'make stage' Apr 23 13:15:13 in sb2? Apr 23 13:15:33 Evo: no. the Makefile uses sb2 automagically Apr 23 13:15:45 ok.. it's done Apr 23 13:16:17 Evo: ok, now that packages headers and libs are staged in a place where sb2 can see and use them Apr 23 13:16:53 and now i can try to compiled again? Apr 23 13:17:00 yes Apr 23 13:17:13 infobot: seen atlanta Apr 23 13:17:17 atlanta <~c6167a04@gateway/web/freenode/x-uxrugnxpbhfspyyh> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 19h 40m 12s ago, saying: 'webf: added u on gtalk'. Apr 23 13:18:42 Evo: yes, but no doubt you are missing other libs as well Apr 23 13:18:49 rwhitby: hey sorry i didn't get back to you the other day, i think you actually had my old ssh key on gitorious, but you don't have it on the new git serer. Apr 23 13:20:13 rwhitby: plus i'm not even sure i have that key anymore. i think i lost it when i switched to Fedora since i generated one specificially for that... but i have my "permanent" one now i can give you. Apr 23 13:20:19 zsoc_wirc: ok i try it... brb Apr 23 13:26:29 nt4cats: morn Apr 23 13:26:37 'lo zsoc Apr 23 13:27:07 zsoc: I need to do some learnin' about this sb tool. It does magic Apr 23 13:28:13 ... for example ... with a cwd of packages/python/python/build/src, there is an arm executable called 'python' there. I've taken this file, transferred it to my pre, and it works. Apr 23 13:28:45 part of the build process (with packages/python/python/build/src as the apparent cwd) does this: Apr 23 13:28:57 PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.5 \ Apr 23 13:28:57 ./python -Wi -tt -O /usr/local/lib/python2.5/compileall.py \ Apr 23 13:28:57 -d /usr/local/lib/python2.5 -f \ Apr 23 13:28:57 -x 'bad_coding|badsyntax|site-packages' /usr/local/lib/python2.5 Apr 23 13:29:08 notice the command executed is "./python" Apr 23 13:29:28 and? Apr 23 13:29:43 the following 100 lines start out like this Apr 23 13:29:44 yes? Apr 23 13:29:49 Could not find platform independent libraries Apr 23 13:29:49 Could not find platform dependent libraries Apr 23 13:29:49 Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to [:] Apr 23 13:29:49 Listing /usr/local/lib/python2.5 ... Apr 23 13:29:49 Compiling /usr/local/lib/python2.5/BaseHTTPServer.py ... Apr 23 13:29:50 Compiling /usr/local/lib/python2.5/Bastion.py ... Apr 23 13:29:52 Compiling /usr/local/lib/python2.5/CGIHTTPServer.py ... Apr 23 13:29:54 Compiling /usr/local/lib/python2.5/ConfigParser.py ... Apr 23 13:29:56 Compiling /usr/local/lib/python2.5/Cookie.py ... Apr 23 13:30:03 nt4cats: thas Apr 23 13:30:07 so python is running and compiling those .py files Apr 23 13:30:09 that's a bit spammy lol 1 sec Apr 23 13:30:20 I'll pastebin this if you'd like ... Apr 23 13:30:36 1 sec Apr 23 13:32:04 the thing is that ./python appears to be running (to compile the .py files for standard libraries and tests). Of course it can't be (because ./python is an arm binary, not an x86 binary) ... so I'm currently digging to find the magic that is making it work Apr 23 13:33:57 I am confident I can figure it out, just 'splaining where I am in the process (currently in a "scratching my head" loop) Apr 23 13:34:41 zsoc_wirc: with a little bit of luck it works :) Apr 23 13:36:13 it looks good Apr 23 13:36:33 Evo: good :) Apr 23 13:37:02 nt4cats: so wait. it /is/ working? or it /isnt/ working? Apr 23 13:37:37 there is some arm emulation going on, not sure if that could be it Apr 23 13:40:27 zsoc_wirc: damn... libunix.cc:72:24: error: curses.h: No such file or directory =((( Apr 23 13:40:40 ncurslib? Apr 23 13:41:19 zsoc_wirc: at that point in the process it is working (but I'm not sure why it is working), later in the process it core dumps running python Apr 23 13:41:24 (segfaults) Apr 23 13:42:20 arm emulation would explain why it is working (and possibly why it is core dumping, too -- as emulation is often not perfect). Apr 23 13:42:45 damn =/ Apr 23 13:57:28 brb Apr 23 14:04:43 zsoc hasn't come back yet. Apr 23 14:04:49 or maybe he did Apr 23 14:04:55 ~seen zsoc_wirc Apr 23 14:04:56 zsoc_wirc <~zsoc@unaffiliated/zsoc> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 27m 19s ago, saying: 'there is some arm emulation going on, not sure if that could be it'. Apr 23 14:04:57 ~seen zsoc Apr 23 14:04:58 zsoc <~lll@unaffiliated/zsoc> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 11h 12m 54s ago, saying: 'preoccupied: right now the app is still working, i'm having a difficultly getting things pushed around.. i gotta spend some time with the fam, may or may not be back tonight'. Apr 23 14:15:27 zsoc_wirc: I'm showing this to you so that you can see what I'm talking about -- I'm not begging you to fix this for me (that's what I'm supposed to be doing here) Apr 23 14:15:32 zsoc_wirc: http://webos.pastebin.com/hApddRDv Apr 23 14:16:16 oh, wait, I think I fixed it. Apr 23 14:16:49 I win! Apr 23 14:17:13 nt4cats: you'll have to excuse me, got busy at work Apr 23 14:17:23 nt4cats: but I'm curious to know Apr 23 14:18:13 zsoc_wirc: no worries -- I think I figured out a manual step to 'fix' the build problem .. now I need to integrate that into the top-level makefile. I'll do that on my train trip home tonight Apr 23 14:18:32 (gotta do the paying sort of work for now) Apr 23 15:06:56 can someone help me with a PREWARE THEME issue? Apr 23 15:08:09 very patient Apr 23 15:08:55 zsoc_wirc: I didn't see -- how long between question and quit ? Apr 23 15:10:09 nt4cats: it's not a record or anything Apr 23 15:10:51 lenovo looks promising as a palm buyer Apr 23 15:53:58 Govnah's looking good 0.1.1 Apr 23 15:54:09 govnah is hawt Apr 23 15:54:24 does Govnah only work with the uber kernel? Apr 23 15:55:06 its only been tested I think with that one. Apr 23 15:55:12 AFAIK it can only get cpu temp from uber kernel Apr 23 15:55:30 but once i finish the settings stuff, it should work with others, no? Apr 23 15:55:34 that stuffs standard Apr 23 15:56:08 nobody elses kernels (except for sbromwich's Deathstar and RebelScumm) ones support the temp sensor. Apr 23 15:57:18 oilsworkn, I think rwhitby is right..we need 1second polls of the Temp Sensor. Apr 23 15:57:26 lol Apr 23 15:57:45 yeah, that can be done Apr 23 15:58:21 I've been playing this morning with different polling rates and the temps can jump up 5-10deg in the 5second window Apr 23 15:59:01 so for throttling back on rapidly rising temps we need more granularity. Apr 23 15:59:24 it still "jumped" at .5 Apr 23 16:00:01 k Apr 23 16:00:23 maybe it should sample every second, but average them out and still have the 5 second graph as the smallest? Apr 23 16:01:36 for the graph probably but I would still like to be able to use the fastest polling that doesn't kill performance due to overhead. Apr 23 16:01:54 maybe we push the control loop into the C service (which is where it should go) Apr 23 16:01:56 i plan to change the main scene a little bit Apr 23 16:02:34 each of the stats; temp, freq, load, etc, etc, would have a normal-height row Apr 23 16:02:43 each with a small sparkline graph behind it Apr 23 16:02:52 tapping the stat would bring you to a larger view of the graph Apr 23 16:02:57 with more options for scale/etc/etc Apr 23 16:03:08 if that makes sense Apr 23 16:05:21 and if i can get it to look like it does in my head :) Apr 23 16:05:26 I'm not really an interface guy but I'd like to see temp and cpufreq graphs together. Apr 23 16:05:41 but they have different scales, wont it look funny? Apr 23 16:05:49 and the things like load etc on a separate stats window. Apr 23 16:06:12 the CPU hardly spends any time below 500mhz Apr 23 16:06:17 and can spike up to 800 Apr 23 16:06:38 so really the scale is the discrete steps that cpufreq can be. Apr 23 16:06:51 500, 600, 720(if enabled) and 800 Apr 23 16:08:24 it will only be one of those (so the graph will look like square waves) Apr 23 16:09:02 er rather stairstep ones Apr 23 16:10:42 yeah, i get what you're sayin Apr 23 16:11:39 palm-webos-device stats # cat time_in_state Apr 23 16:11:40 800000 0 Apr 23 16:11:40 720000 0 Apr 23 16:11:40 600000 0 Apr 23 16:11:40 550000 2571 Apr 23 16:11:40 500000 19600473 Apr 23 16:11:42 250000 0 Apr 23 16:11:44 125000 0 Apr 23 16:12:38 thats the userspace governor with min=500 and max=600 Apr 23 16:12:56 then the problem is how to differentiate the lines without having a legend on hte main scene Apr 23 16:13:45 I assume the graph lines can be different colours? Apr 23 16:14:06 yeah Apr 23 16:15:02 can you put additional scale #'s on the side, perhaps in the same colour as the CPU speed graph? Apr 23 16:15:49 that would require making the graphing code better :) Apr 23 16:16:00 okay. understood Apr 23 16:16:02 (which is why i wanted to simplify the main scene instead of complicate it more) Apr 23 16:16:16 and the full-scene graph could have all the bells and whistles Apr 23 16:16:24 since it would have more space to be more precise Apr 23 16:16:38 and on the main scene just give you a general idea of how things are going wtih the little sparkline Apr 23 16:16:58 okay that makes sense Apr 23 16:17:09 so the graph scene could have the option to include all the stats on the same graph Apr 23 16:17:14 since it would have room for a legend Apr 23 16:17:17 and multiple scale markers Apr 23 16:17:20 on way to palm hq Apr 23 16:17:30 have fun Apr 23 16:17:53 say to any of the gang we know. Apr 23 16:17:54 :D Apr 23 16:18:11 btw, is there anyone using a chrooted Debian with X? I love mine. Apr 23 16:18:40 if I'd been smart I would have gotten a hotel in walking distance Apr 23 16:19:05 jacques_pre, at least you aren't in Gilroy coming in! Apr 23 16:19:33 RamsesFSFE: cool, what X apps are you using? Apr 23 16:19:59 ka6sox: who's in gilroy? Apr 23 16:20:04 jacques_pre: especially XChat. That works really fine Apr 23 16:20:28 jacques_pre, I was referring to the Fremont to SF downtown for LWSF trips. Apr 23 16:20:41 RamsesFSFE: nice. I use xchat on my pcs Apr 23 16:21:03 jacques_pre: the only problem is that CPU usage is very and the Pre gets hot Apr 23 16:21:13 ka6sox: ah heh, I remember now :-) Apr 23 16:22:20 RamsesFSFE: we need a way to tell luna not to up-clock when running X server Apr 23 16:26:06 oilsworkn, do you want me to add a method for stroring the stats in a file? Apr 23 16:26:37 i think the idea was to put all the stats we want to track in one method Apr 23 16:26:38 here now Apr 23 16:26:47 and just have the service dump them to a file as it returns it when the app asks for it Apr 23 16:26:51 jacques_pre, enjoy! Apr 23 16:27:19 brb, real work calls Apr 23 16:27:32 ironically, sprint service here is very poor Apr 23 16:27:53 0 bars Apr 23 16:28:49 jacques_pre, look for Rick and swisstomcat while you are there (swiss won't be there till later today) Apr 23 16:30:28 preoccupied, I've upped the sample rate to 1 sample/second Apr 23 16:43:32 ka6sox: for the settings scene Apr 23 16:43:33 ka6sox: ok. does it get update that often? Apr 23 16:43:43 you think changing things should be as they're done, or all at once? Apr 23 16:43:52 s/update/updated/ Apr 23 16:43:52 preoccupied meant: ka6sox: ok. does it get updated that often? Apr 23 16:44:00 with a button or something Apr 23 16:44:15 preoccupied, I'm doing another nbench run with it Apr 23 16:44:46 loootsa people here Apr 23 16:45:11 oilsworkn, I think it should change as you make the selection so that you can see what happens (at least for now) Apr 23 16:45:11 ok. mine has been logging the whole day so far Apr 23 16:45:47 preoccupied, what min and max cpufreqs? Apr 23 16:46:23 600/600 Apr 23 16:47:46 okay good. Apr 23 16:48:07 will probably feel a bis sluggish after being at 800. Apr 23 16:48:15 yeah, from a quick glance, my temp's been having around in teh 30s Apr 23 16:48:15 s/bis/bit Apr 23 16:48:30 ohhhh, this wil be good about preware Apr 23 16:50:20 preoccupied, unless you are doing something intense I suspect it will stay there. Apr 23 16:50:26 * oilsworkn wonders what they be sayin' bout preware Apr 23 16:52:03 hehe Apr 23 16:52:11 their doing interviews with developers Apr 23 16:52:17 whee Apr 23 16:52:22 in the media room Apr 23 16:52:32 or whatever this room is Apr 23 16:53:19 the multiconference room Apr 23 16:53:30 ? Apr 23 16:53:57 yeah thats it Apr 23 16:54:11 heh Apr 23 16:54:13 third row Apr 23 16:54:15 i'm enjoying watching all the macbook shares pop up in my finder Apr 23 16:54:19 ka6sox: http://webos.pastebin.com/Rz6nGg4C is how im going to do the settings scene Apr 23 16:54:20 raise hand Apr 23 16:54:25 oilsworkn: I think they're going to review it for poor coding practices, ineffective logic, poorly chosen algorithms, etc. Apr 23 16:54:28 heh, only one bonjour person poped up Apr 23 16:54:46 nt4cats: probably Apr 23 16:56:28 i think it's sad that apple does not ship with the firewall on Apr 23 16:58:12 so who from webos-internals is here? Apr 23 16:58:37 ACTION  Apr 23 16:59:44 oilsworkn, the frequency set list is a list of freqs that the governor has to select from (like 3-5 different values) Apr 23 16:59:59 I don't think we have 5% increments. Apr 23 17:00:30 jhojho: rick methinks Apr 23 17:00:51 ka6sox: the steps? Apr 23 17:01:19 jas. let me look at the cpufreq dir Apr 23 17:01:43 freq_step - This describes what percentage steps the CPU freq should be increased and decreased smoothly by. By default the CPU frequency will increase in 5% chunks of your maximum CPU frequency. You can change this value to anywhere between 0 and 100 where '0' will effectively lock your CPU at a speed regardless of its load whilst '100' will, in theory, make it behave identically to the "ondemand" governor. Apr 23 17:01:47 (what rwhitby put on wiki) Apr 23 17:02:22 (for conservative governor) Apr 23 17:02:41 okay since I've not used that governor yet its not an option with the ones I've seen Apr 23 17:03:28 I have seen the different clock registers that could be tweaked to make small step changes. Apr 23 17:03:57 oilsworkn: there's also the powersave_bias Apr 23 17:03:57 for ondemand Apr 23 17:05:29 think i could get ya to add it/explain it on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Govnah#Governor_Settings? Apr 23 17:06:05 there is also a get_/set_sampling_down_factor method in the service that isn't in that list Apr 23 17:06:08 so idk where to put it Apr 23 17:07:38 just did Apr 23 17:07:54 never used the get/set thing so have to research Apr 23 17:08:37 gak. updatindg the wiki is slow Apr 23 17:08:48 well Apr 23 17:08:54 i mean get_/set_ is just the method Apr 23 17:08:55 hah Apr 23 17:08:57 rwhitby needs to bump the perf on this =) Apr 23 17:08:58 to get the value and set the value Apr 23 17:09:15 i assume its just sampling_down_factor Apr 23 17:09:26 much like the method is get_powersave_bias and set_powersave_bias Apr 23 17:09:33 so i can read the current and set a new value Apr 23 17:09:46 so if I add to the design, will you code it ? =) Apr 23 17:09:55 jhojho, what do you mean its slow? what network are you on? Apr 23 17:10:14 ka6sox: at palm, Apr 23 17:10:26 hitting save after editing takes a bit of time. Apr 23 17:10:33 maybe i'm just impatient =) Apr 23 17:10:36 * oilsworkn picks and chooses from the wiki page :) Apr 23 17:10:38 heh, it is VERY slow Apr 23 17:11:07 no, its taking forever for me to get webpages Apr 23 17:11:13 are you on a palm network or using something else? Apr 23 17:11:30 palm's network they set up for dev days Apr 23 17:11:46 oilsworkn: it would be nice if Govnah was able to set CPU Govener, IO scheduler and TCP network opts Apr 23 17:11:53 SOMEONES phone isn't on silent.... Apr 23 17:12:21 well governor is obviously on the list Apr 23 17:12:43 halfhalo-devdays: is their ringtone something good like "[Shut up woman], get on my horse!" Apr 23 17:13:05 jhojho, I think its your network. the server is spitting out pages pretty fast. Apr 23 17:13:05 heh, no. standard pre ringtone Apr 23 17:13:44 * oilsworkn added powersave bias http://webos.pastebin.com/XpXfp62S Apr 23 17:13:51 ka6sox: too many people running bittorent I guess Apr 23 17:14:00 or wirc from their phone Apr 23 17:14:01 hah Apr 23 17:14:03 :) Apr 23 17:14:11 thers what, 50 people using the one router Apr 23 17:14:39 @SCALE the wireless was always saturated. Apr 23 17:14:53 oilsworkn: I'll take a look Apr 23 17:15:11 we needz a transparent proxy or a faster connection Apr 23 17:15:25 heh Apr 23 17:15:28 yeah Apr 23 17:16:20 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/SetupSquidTransparentProxy Apr 23 17:19:10 well look who showed up Apr 23 17:19:20 no to squid Apr 23 17:19:23 varnish pls Apr 23 17:19:24 =) Apr 23 17:19:30 I didn't think he'd have the nerve to show his face here again Apr 23 17:19:53 who, rick? Apr 23 17:21:01 * nt4cats shrugs -- I'm not sure who halfhalo was talking about, but "I didn't think he'd have the nerve ..." seemed like an appropriate follow-on to "look who showed up" Apr 23 17:21:02 microphone hardware access would be nice =) Apr 23 17:21:25 true Apr 23 17:21:53 preoccupied, same thing happened today with temp...shot up 9deg in 1 second. Apr 23 17:22:15 Fri Apr 23 09:41:03 PDT 2010 21 9.43 6.02 2.65 12/174 20454 50000 Apr 23 17:22:15 Fri Apr 23 09:41:04 PDT 2010 30 9.32 6.06 2.68 11/174 20460 50000 Apr 23 17:22:32 it would be nice if preware only pulled a differential when downloading feeds. would speed things up as well as save bandwidth Apr 23 17:22:37 you know, now I'm regretting not grabbing a bite to eat Apr 23 17:22:42 boring boring boring. Apr 23 17:23:00 yeah, but useful for new people like mah friend Apr 23 17:23:01 ka6sox: interesting Apr 23 17:23:11 halfhalo-devdays, where are you right now? Apr 23 17:23:12 yeah, i think there's definitely a delay Apr 23 17:23:22 lol. someone has verizon hotspot turned on in this room Apr 23 17:23:32 wonder if they would mind terribly if I hopped on that. Apr 23 17:23:36 jacques: third row right in front of rick Apr 23 17:23:47 hell, if I had a pre plus I would be using it Apr 23 17:23:54 ka6sox: how did you get the jump to happen? Apr 23 17:24:08 i'm on the third row too =) Apr 23 17:24:10 ohh, hybrid app Apr 23 17:24:15 jacques: I thought you were asking "are you at Dev Days?" when you said "where are you" -- but you meant literally "where are you sitting / standing" ? Apr 23 17:24:16 ssshhh Apr 23 17:24:17 :) Apr 23 17:24:21 I am in very back row - it's kinda hard to see you guys that far up Apr 23 17:24:25 (that wasn't supposed to be a question) Apr 23 17:24:36 preoccupied, I need to tie it to what is happening with nbench at the time. Apr 23 17:24:38 nt4cats, yep, I meant which seat :-) Apr 23 17:25:25 jhojho: second to last person in the row with the brown sweatshirt Apr 23 17:25:28 jacques: I thought to myself "doesn't he see '-devdays' in his nickname?!?!?!" -- I'll remember to give you more credit than that next time Apr 23 17:25:36 ka6sox: oh, you were running nbench Apr 23 17:25:38 nt4cats, lol Apr 23 17:25:44 woot Apr 23 17:25:44 break Apr 23 17:25:48 preoccupied, 8 of them at a time. Apr 23 17:25:50 need food Apr 23 17:26:13 halfhalo-devdays: heh Apr 23 17:26:17 the loads were over 9 Apr 23 17:26:18 ka6sox: weird. so it stayed at 21 for a while even with the 8 nbenches, but then suddenly jumped? Apr 23 17:26:27 right - developer days today Apr 23 17:26:50 halfhalo-devdays, I'm sorry - you missed breakfast? Apr 23 17:26:50 preoccupied, yes, so I suspect that nbench starts using something that wasn't being used before. Apr 23 17:26:55 i'll swing buy around lunch Apr 23 17:27:04 s/buy/by Apr 23 17:27:34 wish I was there...only 4.5hrs away Apr 23 17:28:04 ka6sox, did you figure out what you had scheduled for tomorrow? still can't come up? Apr 23 17:28:07 doh. Apr 23 17:28:21 looks like my phone is back to 500 Apr 23 17:28:22 mhz Apr 23 17:28:33 jacques, I'm trying! Apr 23 17:28:35 heh, wasn't hungry before the start. now am Apr 23 17:28:45 ka6sox, cool Apr 23 17:28:46 * nt4cats is only 2882 miles away Apr 23 17:28:55 * oilsworkn_ will have to go to one of these things eventually Apr 23 17:29:03 breakfast was mm mm good. =) Apr 23 17:29:04 not really but not bad. Apr 23 17:29:09 I can drive there faster than I can fly there. Apr 23 17:29:15 get driving Apr 23 17:29:32 oil: we should get together and have a "we're not at devdays" party -- make all of those losers at devdays feel jealous Apr 23 17:29:43 heh Apr 23 17:29:43 sounds like a plan Apr 23 17:29:45 ka6sox: maybe you can try usleep and see if you can get even finer data points? Apr 23 17:30:02 usleep 100000 Apr 23 17:30:07 that will give you 10 points / sec Apr 23 17:30:20 I wonder if rik (from palm) is at this event... Apr 23 17:30:38 preoccupied, since nbench is niced there shouldnt' be too much lag. Apr 23 17:30:48 ohohohoh Apr 23 17:30:53 end user services Apr 23 17:31:16 hmmm....looking for screen Apr 23 17:31:25 ka6sox: oh, not so much the lag, just seeing if you can capture some points between the jump from 21 to 30 Apr 23 17:31:40 multicast dns? Apr 23 17:31:46 do not grok Apr 23 17:32:00 adhoc Apr 23 17:32:07 preoccupied, okay I'll try that next. Apr 23 17:32:30 oilsworkn_, what was the fastest you polled? Apr 23 17:32:36 .5 Apr 23 17:32:41 ka6sox: if we still see the same jump, that tells us that the freq is only updated periodically Apr 23 17:32:41 k Apr 23 17:32:42 lunasysmgr is going away?!? Apr 23 17:32:45 byebye java Apr 23 17:32:58 no, just java Apr 23 17:33:02 * oilsworkn_ weeps for java? Apr 23 17:33:06 lol Apr 23 17:33:06 s/freq/temp/ Apr 23 17:33:07 preoccupied meant: ka6sox: if we still see the same jump, that tells us that the temp is only updated periodically Apr 23 17:33:15 the version of apache harmony is pretty old Apr 23 17:33:25 that could use an update to a more recent version Apr 23 17:33:42 oh, someone has wimax Apr 23 17:33:50 o rly? Apr 23 17:34:04 heh, web connection is slow here Apr 23 17:34:04 yeah Apr 23 17:34:10 halfhalo-devdays: is their SSID name "c40-wimax"? Apr 23 17:34:13 I just see joe vzw pixi3 Apr 23 17:34:17 no, its beyond slow Apr 23 17:34:23 everyone hop on that =) Apr 23 17:34:48 preoccupied, I need to look and see if they put the ADC for the Temp Sensor in continuous mode. Apr 23 17:35:01 hah, its clear Apr 23 17:36:17 hmm Apr 23 17:36:22 theres a bug in preware Apr 23 17:36:28 NO WAY Apr 23 17:36:31 shocker Apr 23 17:36:31 xD Apr 23 17:36:33 if I update an app that is in the beta feed Apr 23 17:36:53 ..... something happens? Apr 23 17:37:05 it does not show up as updated on preware. Apr 23 17:37:23 doesnt it leave preware to update it? Apr 23 17:37:46 * oilsworkn_ actually had nothing to do with beta/web/catalog implementations Apr 23 17:37:55 * oilsworkn_ has never installed one of them from preware either Apr 23 17:37:56 new sdk tomorrow as well Apr 23 17:37:56 that should be fun Apr 23 17:38:07 wondering if anyone has experience making a browser plugin for the Pre? (ala the terminal app, but to be usable by a regular webpage) Apr 23 17:39:18 like... flash? Apr 23 17:39:43 preoccupied, I'm going to leave cpustats.sh in a foreground screen session since it was running niced too. Apr 23 17:40:01 (I dropped it off) Apr 23 17:40:12 oh fabulous, preware updating just caused BSOD Apr 23 17:40:18 jhojho: based upon my observation, it will only be shown as updated in preware after you restart --- because restart is the only time that preware scans to see what packages are installed outside of preware. Things from the beta feeds are installed by the palm install app Apr 23 17:40:40 nt4cats: makes sense Apr 23 17:40:49 well how is preware to know if it updated correctly if it didnt do the updating Apr 23 17:40:54 HA Apr 23 17:41:12 jhojho: for example, you can click on the 'install' button in preware on a beta app, it brings up the palm install app, and Preware doesn't know if you actually click 'install/upgrade' there or not unless it rescans Apr 23 17:41:15 i guess it could set a flag when it sends off to the catalog to be installed, and and re-check the installed status on activate Apr 23 17:41:20 ok, aim won't connect Apr 23 17:41:40 activate, or, return, etc Apr 23 17:42:30 oilsworkn_: that could work Apr 23 17:42:38 so they're gettin rid of java? Apr 23 17:43:01 so the presenter says Apr 23 17:43:04 yeah Apr 23 17:43:26 if lunasysmgr becomes a C prog, things would probably be a lot faster... Apr 23 17:43:30 * oilsworkn_ might quit webos development because of that Apr 23 17:43:36 >xD Apr 23 17:43:52 hah Apr 23 17:44:16 wow, just got a wget failed Apr 23 17:44:23 when trying to start up preware Apr 23 17:44:31 yeah, trying to do an aim file transfer and its not going Apr 23 17:44:36 maybe I should move off of the wifi Apr 23 17:44:43 lunasymgr in C would be faster and take less RAM :-D Apr 23 17:44:49 jhojho: yeah, thats not prewares fault xD Apr 23 17:45:10 ka6sox: alright Apr 23 17:45:39 ka6sox: maybe i can even make it print out the log line as well Apr 23 17:45:48 so you don't have to tail -f the log Apr 23 17:45:55 * oilsworkn_ hopes they show off new hardware Apr 23 17:46:21 preoccupied, just add another echo line Apr 23 17:46:31 yeach Apr 23 17:47:13 where are the docs installed? Apr 23 17:47:13 as part of the sdk install? Apr 23 17:47:33 ka6sox: http://webos.pastebin.com/WnRhhVxd Apr 23 17:47:58 i don't know.... Apr 23 17:48:06 jhojho: i believe so Apr 23 17:48:11 oh, the Palm WebOS SDK folder Apr 23 17:48:12 the wifi here needs a DNS cache or something Apr 23 17:50:12 preoccupied, perfect....although I'm doing sleep 1 Apr 23 17:51:41 oilsworkn_, yes Apr 23 17:51:45 like flash, but not flash Apr 23 17:52:07 wonderi ng if the sdl vnc stuff can be adapted to make a vnc plugin Apr 23 17:52:32 have some research idea I want to play with Apr 23 17:53:12 * oilsworkn_ doesn't know anything about that stuff Apr 23 17:53:12 ka6sox: oh yeah, forgot to change that haha Apr 23 17:53:47 who wrote the terminal plugin? Apr 23 17:55:01 a bunch of people collaborated on it Apr 23 17:55:13 and i dont think any of them are here right now Apr 23 17:55:28 rather Apr 23 17:55:36 i know destinal was one of them Apr 23 17:55:39 but hes not here Apr 23 17:55:43 idk who else worked on it Apr 23 17:56:00 preoccupied, I"m putting these things in git so we can look back on what we did along the way. Apr 23 17:56:54 break Apr 23 17:57:14 preoccupied, what we need is the temp reading alongside top. Apr 23 18:00:15 ka6sox: sorry, don't understand. it currently echos the temp reading... Apr 23 18:00:41 oilsworkn_: the governor setting on govnah does not yeah work right? Apr 23 18:01:00 right Apr 23 18:01:16 yet Apr 23 18:01:21 right Apr 23 18:01:22 god, too much/little coffee Apr 23 18:01:37 preoccupied, I'm trying to tie the jump in frequency to an event that happens. Apr 23 18:01:42 okay Apr 23 18:01:50 bug just showed up on my pre Apr 23 18:01:52 s/frequency/temp Apr 23 18:01:57 time to track down a palm engineer Apr 23 18:02:36 ka6sox: oh, ic. maybe we can also grab info from ps Apr 23 18:03:09 what I wish is that top -u 5 would work right. Apr 23 18:05:18 wtf Apr 23 18:05:31 preoccupied, it looks like 32khz/14 is the polling rate for the temp sensor. Apr 23 18:06:19 bing won't connect Apr 23 18:07:06 ka6sox: 32khz? that's pretty fast... Apr 23 18:08:12 preoccupied, if it were instantaneously available in /sys/blah then it would be 2.28 per second. Apr 23 18:08:12 sooo mcuh better Apr 23 18:08:58 ka6sox: not bad Apr 23 18:09:03 so we can't poll faster than .5 or its meaningless. Apr 23 18:09:06 well it is necessary to sample that often? Apr 23 18:09:24 temp doesnt change that fast/much does it? Apr 23 18:09:36 jhojho: well, ka6sox is seeing some jumps from 21 to mid 30s in less than a second Apr 23 18:09:52 mobile hotspot ftw Apr 23 18:10:42 not really mobile hotspot...he was running nbench Apr 23 18:10:55 mobile hotspot only really affects the battery / radio Apr 23 18:11:09 preoccupied: guess I'm asking if that's real or inaccuracy in sampling. Apr 23 18:11:12 i've seen the bat at 48 with the CPU at 41 while tether Apr 23 18:11:12 ing Apr 23 18:11:19 preoccupied, halfhalo-devdays is on a mobile hotspot. Apr 23 18:11:23 jhojho: no more crap wifi! Apr 23 18:11:31 oh, ic Apr 23 18:11:55 jhojho, the raw is tracking Apr 23 18:12:07 halfhalo-devdays: I was on a mobile hotspot, but apparently this bus decided to turn on the wifi... Apr 23 18:12:26 lol Apr 23 18:12:56 ka6sox: unfortunately, gotta run Apr 23 18:13:01 ka6sox: will be back later Apr 23 18:14:24 jhojho, I'm seeing jumps of 9deg with no frequency scaling. Apr 23 18:14:56 whoa Apr 23 18:15:30 in 1 second polls Apr 23 18:15:34 the only way to clean that up is to average it out Apr 23 18:16:02 ka6sox: running anything in particular? or sampling/sensor inaccuracy? Apr 23 18:16:51 zinge|on_a_bus, running 8 instances of nbench niced. Apr 23 18:18:03 the absolute temp isn't a problem but heating up things quickly causes thermal stresses on the chip. Apr 23 18:18:26 ewww Apr 23 18:18:28 jedit Apr 23 18:18:43 seems he really likes java =) Apr 23 18:19:08 yeah Apr 23 18:19:21 that has NOTHING to do with his background Apr 23 18:19:30 i wish someone came up with a decent textmate package for webos Apr 23 18:19:40 * oilsworkn_ feels like someone only hearing half of the conversation Apr 23 18:19:42 i made one then lost it Apr 23 18:19:47 ka6sox: I know absolute is not as important, but is the 9deg/s jump a real temp jump, or sensor noise on the temp sensor? Apr 23 18:20:17 zinge|on_a_bus, it jumps up and stays there. not an anomoly Apr 23 18:20:34 ah, ok. thanks Apr 23 18:20:39 I do like destroyworld Apr 23 18:21:15 bbiab Apr 23 18:22:48 lol, will there ever be a destroyworld version 1.1 ? Apr 23 18:23:03 yes Apr 23 18:24:05 glargh...I should know better than buying $4 chinese phone accessories on eBay. Apr 23 18:33:57 idontwan2know: what they had it for $2 elsewhere? Apr 23 18:33:59 virtualbox 3.1.x is now supported Apr 23 18:34:04 for webos 1.4.1 sdk Apr 23 18:34:28 yeah, thats been known Apr 23 18:34:30 thought it already was? Apr 23 18:34:44 oilsworkn: no, it was a wall charger for spare batteries. not only does the battery not even fit in the thing, the contacts don't line up with the batter Apr 23 18:34:47 y Apr 23 18:34:54 lol Apr 23 18:35:06 * oilsworkn_ uses dev pre to charge his spare batt :) Apr 23 18:35:18 * halfhalo-devdays doesn't charge his spare Apr 23 18:35:50 though ive only switched batteries once sofar Apr 23 18:36:02 due to a long time in a low signal area killing my batt Apr 23 18:36:47 so what else has been said at devdays Apr 23 18:36:47 hmmm Apr 23 18:36:56 why are you not liveblogging everything they say? Apr 23 18:37:02 basically? all the cool craps tomorrow Apr 23 18:37:06 wth Apr 23 18:37:13 tomorrow? Apr 23 18:37:26 did swisstomcat ever make it? Apr 23 18:37:27 end developer services...new sdk... Apr 23 18:37:41 today is supposed to be an intro to WebOS development for the uninitiated? Apr 23 18:38:00 I'm picking it up form the airport tonight Apr 23 18:38:08 gak Apr 23 18:38:11 it? Apr 23 18:38:27 it/him/monkey Apr 23 18:38:41 ah Apr 23 18:38:51 well at least he made it Apr 23 18:38:58 is going to... Apr 23 18:39:30 i... am.... typing.... slowly.... Apr 23 18:39:39 hah Apr 23 18:40:44 so are you guys learnin lots? Apr 23 18:40:54 not yet Apr 23 18:41:10 console.log vs mojo.log after lunch.... which actually interests me Apr 23 18:41:29 you said they brought up preware earlier? Apr 23 18:41:45 lol, i dont use either of those logging Apr 23 18:41:46 just alert(); Apr 23 18:41:51 xD Apr 23 18:41:56 :D Apr 23 19:02:02 this pre plus is overheating Apr 23 19:06:34 so Rick_work tell everyone how it went.... Apr 23 19:07:20 oh, right - devdays is going on now Apr 23 19:07:24 how is it going for eveyrone ? Apr 23 19:07:34 interestingly Apr 23 19:07:41 their trying to demo ares with a crap network Apr 23 19:07:45 hehe they will write "extend ur penis" app ;D Apr 23 19:07:46 hahaha Apr 23 19:07:58 * en0x cracks up Apr 23 19:08:15 heh Apr 23 19:08:15 halfhalo-devdays, what time you picking up swisstomcat? Apr 23 19:08:27 his flight gets in at 7 Apr 23 19:08:37 they should get sprint overdrive device Apr 23 19:08:37 :) Apr 23 19:08:56 kinda sucks ares is network connected only .. would be nice if you could have a cached/offline mode to it .. Apr 23 19:09:39 ok, can't take it Apr 23 19:09:45 about to tether with my sprint pre Apr 23 19:10:41 halfhalo-devdays, how many sprint bars you getting right now? Apr 23 19:10:44 bpadalino: I think palm was considering an offline mode. talk to them about it Apr 23 19:10:58 im getting two ish Apr 23 19:11:10 palm doesn't really talk to me .. or know who i am Apr 23 19:11:12 oh geez Apr 23 19:11:18 and that's OK with m Apr 23 19:11:18 e Apr 23 19:11:21 that's 2 luna restarts since this morning Apr 23 19:11:29 is it the building that is causing luna restarts? Apr 23 19:11:36 yes Apr 23 19:11:59 i need rndis drivers for x64 Apr 23 19:12:32 can anyone recommend a good portable bt mouse? Apr 23 19:12:40 my logitec mouse is horrible Apr 23 19:13:07 heh, no mouse ftw.... Apr 23 19:13:32 jhojho, horrible how? my main issue with bt mice is the inherent bt lag Apr 23 19:13:43 halfhalo-devdays, same here, 1-2 bars Apr 23 19:13:58 I had to reboot pre since it lost data.... Apr 23 19:13:59 fwwwww Apr 23 19:14:13 jacques: the left button takes insane amount of effort to click Apr 23 19:14:53 so using the uber kernel and userspace, bumping the speed will not stick without hacking lunasysmgr Apr 23 19:14:55 jhojho, which model? I have a 450 (470?) that I like except for the lag Apr 23 19:15:19 so a hack is to use ondemand instead and set the min/max cpu to say 720mhz Apr 23 19:15:38 does govnah control the speed? Apr 23 19:15:41 dunno Apr 23 19:15:45 Rick_work: not yet Apr 23 19:15:56 jacques: not sure of the model I can show you Apr 23 19:15:59 I thought that was it's purpose. Govnah gives you a UI to control the custom kernal. Apr 23 19:16:08 you know what I'm thinking? chipotle for dinner Apr 23 19:16:12 kk Apr 23 19:16:14 Rick_work: eventually Apr 23 19:16:19 Rick_work, rsn Apr 23 19:16:20 the food at the hotel is waayyyy to pricy Apr 23 19:16:28 halfhalo-devdays: aren't you on the west coast? in-n-out ? Apr 23 19:16:37 halfhalo-devdays: dude plenty of other options for food Apr 23 19:16:40 I have in n out two days ago.... Apr 23 19:16:43 ah Apr 23 19:16:46 halfhalo-devdays, which hotel? Apr 23 19:16:48 yeah, but chipotle...... Apr 23 19:16:51 other than just chipotle Apr 23 19:16:53 there's a restaurant row a bit south of here with a huge selection of decent places. Apr 23 19:16:55 im at the santa clara marriott Apr 23 19:17:05 yelp will tell you Apr 23 19:17:22 or if you need recommendations, ask me Apr 23 19:17:26 halfhalo-devdays, ah OK, I am at the svgrand Apr 23 19:17:38 heh, the svgrand was to pricy Apr 23 19:17:45 Rick_work, has a good location Apr 23 19:17:56 in walking distance of lots of stuff, unlike me :-\ Apr 23 19:18:09 well, I have a car so its all good Apr 23 19:18:10 I have 3 bars btw Apr 23 19:18:14 7 minutes to get here Apr 23 19:18:26 update your PRL Apr 23 19:18:26 if you havent done so Apr 23 19:18:38 I used to work on evelyn Apr 23 19:19:02 so I used to know the places on murphy Apr 23 19:19:19 :p Apr 23 19:19:19 dishdash was always good Apr 23 19:19:25 data was disabled.... Apr 23 19:19:41 well, this ends at 5:30, and have to pick up swiss at 7 from SF Apr 23 19:20:27 halfhalo-devdays, after that is better for dinner? Apr 23 19:20:33 * jacques eats late Apr 23 19:20:42 the caf food here is actually pretty good these days Apr 23 19:20:47 dish-dash is also really good Apr 23 19:20:48 well, I'm planning for a movie after Apr 23 19:21:01 ok, phone still has no data.... Apr 23 19:21:03 beelzabub1, yeah breakfast was good Apr 23 19:21:04 there's also a good sushi place in mountain view Apr 23 19:21:31 beelzabub1: which place? Apr 23 19:21:37 ehhhh Apr 23 19:21:39 don't remember the name Apr 23 19:21:42 sorry Apr 23 19:21:42 hate sushi Apr 23 19:21:59 now I'm getting three bars Apr 23 19:22:05 * jacques looooves sushi Apr 23 19:22:10 :-\ Apr 23 19:22:24 airplane mode fixed it Apr 23 19:22:24 Is there any way to do any sort of javascipt injection for webview widgets? Apr 23 19:22:34 the plus has full bars Apr 23 19:22:57 I cant eat sushi anymore. =( Apr 23 19:23:01 Or, to load mojo widgets inside the webview so they can affect the javascript inside the view? Apr 23 19:23:04 makes me sad. Apr 23 19:23:35 ok, sounds like if we all go out, sushi is off the menu - no problem as I had tons of great sushi in SF japantown during CELF ELC Apr 23 19:23:48 im feeling mexican myself Apr 23 19:23:56 Rick_work, you coming? Apr 23 19:23:59 and I had in-n-out last night, so that's out of my system for another year :-) Apr 23 19:24:11 jacques: best sushi I've found in SF is not in japantown but on lombard Apr 23 19:24:35 there's korean places on el camino Apr 23 19:24:44 I went to a roast crab place in the financil district in SF a few years ago - fantastic Apr 23 19:24:52 and a ramen joint on castro Apr 23 19:25:01 my hotel is on el camino Apr 23 19:25:02 crustacean? Apr 23 19:25:11 lets see.... i have three open seatsin my car right now Apr 23 19:25:24 $$$$ Apr 23 19:25:26 four if you count the trunk Apr 23 19:25:50 lol Apr 23 19:26:26 wish I had a car - I could visit my old haunts - Fry's on arques, surpluscomputers (tho they moved), weirdstuff Apr 23 19:26:33 ehhh Apr 23 19:26:37 I have issues with frys Apr 23 19:26:54 the one near me is either really fast to get something or takes hours Apr 23 19:27:03 I'd come, but I'm on the wrong end of the country Apr 23 19:27:11 your fault Apr 23 19:27:14 oh, there's a good yakitori / robata grill place off of lawrence Apr 23 19:27:28 http://www.google.com/search?q=sumiya&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Apr 23 19:27:53 ehh Apr 23 19:27:59 The guy in the seat in front of me is killing the bus wifi by playing neopets... Apr 23 19:28:06 wth. Apr 23 19:28:19 Lol Apr 23 19:28:24 scrolling down. it said that the old place burnt down Apr 23 19:28:27 hmmm, we could attack his IP.... Apr 23 19:28:44 I like the way you think Apr 23 19:29:03 I was just gonna say, DoS Apr 23 19:29:16 El Caminito Mexican? Apr 23 19:29:38 whoa dude in front of me has a fancy recorder Apr 23 19:29:47 lol Apr 23 19:30:04 * jacques doesn't mind Mexican, tho I get a lot of it in TX (well, tex-mex) Apr 23 19:30:17 * halfhalo-devdays hearts mexican Apr 23 19:30:23 ugh mexican Apr 23 19:30:26 How fancy? Apr 23 19:30:56 halfhalo-devdays should be able to see it Apr 23 19:31:19 Last time I was in tx, I was told to stop at a random mexican place I had never heard of in el paso. (Not a specific one, just to find one I hadnt heard of). Great advice, it was delicious. Apr 23 19:31:19 it's a pro recorder, cant remember the name Apr 23 19:31:27 I see... a touchstone pre.... but no recorder Apr 23 19:31:45 Rick_work any dinner suggestions Apr 23 19:31:56 Mexican? Apr 23 19:32:11 Not middle eastern, we did that last night. Apr 23 19:32:25 I'm down for mexican as well Apr 23 19:32:28 Vietnamese or Thai if there's a good one near. Apr 23 19:32:34 You guys are at a devdays session, correct? Apr 23 19:32:37 Italian? Apr 23 19:32:45 traditional american diner???? Apr 23 19:32:45 I can live with italian Apr 23 19:32:50 and american Apr 23 19:33:12 Wouldn't it be funny if during the session, they introduced people to the irc channel and brought it up live... saw people talking about where to go for dinner Apr 23 19:33:15 vietnamses is on elcamino Apr 23 19:33:28 eh, we can decide at lunch Apr 23 19:33:40 intersection of lawerence and elcamino Apr 23 19:34:12 * jhojho notes that he has only suggested asian food. =) Apr 23 19:34:25 heh Apr 23 19:35:38 halfhalo-away: http://maps.google.com/maps?near=Sunnyvale,+CA&geocode=CQHuE_0uDRcWFf4zOgIdgt-5-A&q=exotic+dancing&ie=UTF8&z=9 Apr 23 19:46:57 vietnamese and thai are good for me! Apr 23 19:47:27 jhojho, which vietnamese place on el camino? Apr 23 19:47:58 oops I see you already said which intersection Apr 23 19:51:00 pho hoa http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=1067771743878413251&q=vietnamese&hl=en&cd=1&cad=src:pplink&ei=CPrRS6jRI5TusAPns6DXBA Apr 23 19:51:05 not sure if pho queen is still arond Apr 23 19:51:31 but there are 2 good korean places right in that area that i personally prefere Apr 23 19:51:40 s/prefere/prefer/ Apr 23 19:51:40 jhojho meant: but there are 2 good korean places right in that area that i personally prefer Apr 23 19:53:23 ka6sox-work: i was thinking something like this: http://i41.tinypic.com/2h2mude.png Apr 23 19:53:35 but with bubbles around the text so you can still see it when the graph is behind it Apr 23 19:53:46 but just a quick view of how its going Apr 23 19:53:53 then tap to get a full-scene graph Apr 23 19:54:24 thats the thought anyways Apr 23 19:55:01 oil, ya thats what i thought you had in mind...just need color difference between graph and text and you re golden. Apr 23 19:55:06 yeah Apr 23 19:55:18 and there would be 4 or 5 rows with little graphs like that Apr 23 19:58:26 lunchtime Apr 23 20:21:13 Rick_work: I like your taste in cuisine Apr 23 20:25:27 how can a unsupported app be supported with save/restore?..other way.. if i built an app, how can this app be supported with save/restore? Apr 23 20:34:15 noaXess: saverestore has a 'scripts' folder where it stores templatized methods used to grab saved data from various apps Apr 23 20:34:30 ok.. Apr 23 20:34:42 what are the resources subfolders for spain, italy and french?.. es, it, fr? Apr 23 20:34:50 probably? Apr 23 20:35:13 or other way.. how can i setup my app, that for es, it and fr the app language files for en will be used? Apr 23 20:35:49 or if i create an app for all countries, i need all resource subfolders with the language? Apr 23 20:35:56 I'm not familiar with localization really. Apr 23 20:38:15 noaXess: they're used automatically, you don't have to tell the app to specifically use it Apr 23 20:39:12 oilsworkn: but.. i have changed the emulator to es.. and no, i see just the label variables instead of the label values.. that are defined int strings.json Apr 23 20:39:34 it depends on how its setup Apr 23 20:39:39 if your string is in the html Apr 23 20:39:50 like
blarg you need to replace that view in the languages folder Apr 23 20:40:15 you could always name that label id="blarglabel" Apr 23 20:40:22 and in setup innerHTML it with $L() Apr 23 20:40:33 and then it will be replaced with the string from the json file Apr 23 20:41:02 but if the string is only in the view, you need to duplicate the view in the language folder with the translated string Apr 23 20:41:09 and the app will pull that view for that language Apr 23 20:41:51 in preware, we opted to replace every string via javascript Apr 23 20:42:02 so we didn't need to duplicate the views for every language Apr 23 20:42:12 and all we need is the strings json Apr 23 20:42:42 * oilsworkn hopes that makes sense Apr 23 20:42:46 * oilsworkn isn't sure how else to phrase it Apr 23 20:42:48 oilsworkn: i do it like this.. Apr 23 20:43:18 deathstar kernel + performance governor + http://www.fop.ns.ca/pre/pt.pl = best performance yet Apr 23 20:44:19 ok for views, in the moment i have separate resources files.. but i have a stings.json for de and for en.. but if the emaulator is in es/spain.. then it show's just the label variables not the values.. Apr 23 20:44:57 or how is the subfolder for spain called?.. or is there a way to set the en/strings.json as default also for es, fr and it? Apr 23 20:45:11 that, i have no clue Apr 23 20:45:35 oilsworkn: so for each language one strings.json.. right? Apr 23 20:45:40 i mean, if there is no strings.json for a language, i thought it kept using english Apr 23 20:45:46 didn't try to substitute Apr 23 20:45:56 noaXess: right, one per Apr 23 20:45:59 no.. not really Apr 23 20:46:23 are you no developing in english? whats with the en/strings? Apr 23 20:46:27 and copy the en/strings.json t es, it and fr.. hm.. ok.. not realy simple but.. if it works ;) Apr 23 20:46:39 resources/en/strings.json i mean Apr 23 20:46:44 right Apr 23 20:46:49 i have my app in german and english Apr 23 20:46:55 and for es/it/fr.. also in english Apr 23 20:46:57 afaik preware doesn't have an en/ Apr 23 20:47:00 since its written in english Apr 23 20:47:03 thats the default Apr 23 20:47:05 it doesnt need to substitute Apr 23 20:47:08 ok... Apr 23 20:47:43 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=tree;f=resources;h=48d73044d9583609c834f8b31c1bf74960a6c149;hb=HEAD Apr 23 20:47:45 no en tree Apr 23 20:48:42 maybe it works because there is no en language strings Apr 23 20:48:46 so it doesn't substitute Apr 23 20:48:52 so if you wrote your app in spanish Apr 23 20:48:58 you wouldn't need an es/ language folder Apr 23 20:49:12 oilsworkn: jsonpayload.x , x always has to be a json entry lvalue? Apr 23 20:49:32 left field? Apr 23 20:49:41 ok.. so for the default app language there is no need to setup resources... but for all others.. if i want it in other languages.. Apr 23 20:49:45 oilsworkn: yes Apr 23 20:49:51 noaXess: thats how i understood it Apr 23 20:50:02 zsoc_wirc: so your service returns a payload Apr 23 20:50:09 okaa. oilsworkn thanks.. was helpfully... Apr 23 20:50:39 oil: right, which is in {}'s Apr 23 20:50:39 that you're calling handler = function(jsonpayload) as a callback? Apr 23 20:50:45 yes Apr 23 20:50:51 to get jsonpayload.x, your app returns {x:'foo'} Apr 23 20:50:56 wth? Apr 23 20:51:00 pdk installes dropbear? Apr 23 20:51:02 ok Apr 23 20:51:57 and.... pre has to be doctored Apr 23 20:52:26 oilsworkn: I'm asking because I somehow managed to display an entire payload, {}'s and all Apr 23 20:53:46 thats weird Apr 23 20:53:49 by using jsonpayload.var where var = the pointer in the service I was referencing to jsonRespond, which is bizarre Apr 23 20:54:02 because the mojo app should know nothing about that pointer Apr 23 20:54:39 * oilsworkn has a feeling precorder service is just messed up :) Apr 23 20:57:20 oilsworkn: well, I wasn't able to get it to repeat that issue. I mean, the application works fine Apr 23 21:02:06 uNiXpSyChO: see my earlier comment? Apr 23 21:02:22 no? have scanned logs yet Apr 23 21:02:51 havent Apr 23 21:03:24 sbromwich: when you say best performance yet. is it the fastest yet or how are you quantifying it? Apr 23 21:03:25 deathstar kernel + performance governor + http://www.fop.ns.ca/pre/pt.pl = best performance yet Apr 23 21:03:40 by fondling my pre and twiddling Apr 23 21:03:45 interactive performance Apr 23 21:04:09 i read somewhere that someone didnt like performance gov. Apr 23 21:04:18 I would appreciate comments :-) Apr 23 21:04:45 yeah, performance locks it to highest available freq, pt.pl twiddles with scaling_max_freq depending on how idle the pre is Apr 23 21:05:32 i like perf and conservative governors. the others can die like rebel scum Apr 23 21:07:43 ondemand I think ultimately might be sucking down more battery due to constant wakeups Apr 23 21:08:15 exactly. i argued that way too much on P|C and l-users didnt get it. Apr 23 21:08:38 there is ALOT of code that happens to scale up and down... lots of ticks and clock cycles Apr 23 21:08:51 govnah needs to check the current governor more frequently, if the user changes by hand it doesn't realise Apr 23 21:08:54 *nod* Apr 23 21:09:04 naive code in this case seems best Apr 23 21:09:14 oh I just noticed default pt.pl chooses ondemand Apr 23 21:09:35 I'm running it with performance... vair nice Apr 23 21:09:55 sbromwich: what did you set the sampling rate to for ondemand? Apr 23 21:09:55 Ares standalone debugger! Apr 23 21:10:50 "govnah needs to check the current governor more frequently, if the user changes by hand it doesn't realise" Apr 23 21:10:56 well how do you expect it to know they changed it by hand Apr 23 21:11:06 and who is going to change it by hand once govnah supports changing it? Apr 23 21:11:27 why would someone change it if they have a GUI to do it? Apr 23 21:11:46 tell the l-user to go pound sand Apr 23 21:11:50 that doesnt make sense Apr 23 21:12:05 what doesnt make sense? Apr 23 21:13:28 jhojho: www.fop.ns.ca/pre/uImage.1.4.1-6.10.prcmhack.cpufreq.txt is pretty close on my current settings Apr 23 21:13:31 oilsworkn: that user comment doesnt make sense Apr 23 21:13:31 tell them, pick one or the other. Apr 23 21:13:52 oilsworkn: cos people like me twiddle around Apr 23 21:13:59 poll every 10 seconds? Apr 23 21:14:14 * oilsworkn thinks jhojho is arguing against me for the same thing i was saying Apr 23 21:14:28 have a counter when you're checking temp and if temp/10=int(temp/10) poll? Apr 23 21:15:16 so when govnah does everything you're doing by hand but with a sexy gui, you're still going to do it by hand and expect govnah to know that? Apr 23 21:15:24 yup! Apr 23 21:15:34 how is it being checked right now? sysfs kernel API? Apr 23 21:15:40 oilsworkn: I'm agreeing with you. Apr 23 21:15:47 throwing hate on the user comment Apr 23 21:15:56 I'm only using it for the graphing Apr 23 21:16:08 sbromwich: then what does it matter that it says the wrong thing? Apr 23 21:16:16 xD Apr 23 21:16:23 oilsworkn: because I'm OCD? ;-) Apr 23 21:16:36 then tap the governor row, then back-gesture, whala Apr 23 21:16:48 ocd placated Apr 23 21:16:59 with a nice repetative action Apr 23 21:17:13 L) Apr 23 21:17:16 :)* Apr 23 21:17:17 mais non Apr 23 21:17:28 sbromwich: not sure if you are using powersave_bias as designed. see the text I added here. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Govnah Apr 23 21:17:36 select current governor, it sees I am performance, swip back, still lists ondemand Apr 23 21:17:50 the swipe back should update the main scene Apr 23 21:17:53 if it doesn't, then its broken Apr 23 21:18:08 and by broken, i mean, still incomplete beta software with less then a days work on it Apr 23 21:18:29 :) Apr 23 21:18:51 you mean I'm using beta software that may have bugs in it? Apr 23 21:19:04 ;-) Apr 23 21:19:07 and by bugs, i mean features Apr 23 21:19:33 although I don't know if I've updated lately... that might be it Apr 23 21:20:09 if you're not on 012, then thats why Apr 23 21:20:30 rwhitby likes to jump up the version numbers a lot :) Apr 23 21:20:36 if it was up to me, it would still be like 0.0.1 Apr 23 21:20:37 haha Apr 23 21:20:43 lol Apr 23 21:21:04 011 Apr 23 21:21:09 the difference between 011 and 012 is a single commit Apr 23 21:21:34 the commit which adds the on-activate governor display update Apr 23 21:21:41 use preware to install the sshd :-) Apr 23 21:22:09 jacques: they said that at devdays? Apr 23 21:22:38 oilsworkn, no, I wanted to just say that because a guy was asking if he could ssh into his device Apr 23 21:22:52 oh Apr 23 21:23:46 ok, trying new doctor file Apr 23 21:23:54 new doctor file? Apr 23 21:24:05 I have a question about doctoring ad restoring all apps on your phone including homebrew and patches Apr 23 21:24:16 then ask of it Apr 23 21:24:25 trying to doctor my phone and the one I have saved has been bombing out and not finishing Apr 23 21:24:28 I read that 1.4.1.1 doctor can leave the USB partition in tact? Apr 23 21:24:34 ok that worked :-) Apr 23 21:24:53 and my phone will not wipe the app/profile or do a full erase Apr 23 21:24:54 DOes that mean that all my installed apps remain? Apr 23 21:24:59 navinag: its been that way since 1.3.5 AFAIK--i've never tried it Apr 23 21:25:08 navinag: i assume so Apr 23 21:25:19 it would just need to recreate the launchpoints in the launcher Apr 23 21:25:27 since all the app code remains Apr 23 21:25:34 HOw would you manage to do that? Apr 23 21:25:38 anybody want to take a stab at why the testing feed won't show up in my preware? Apr 23 21:25:53 Wouldn't a luna scan just recreate that automagically? Apr 23 21:26:05 hmm Apr 23 21:26:06 navinag: i would think so Apr 23 21:26:08 what, did it not work? Apr 23 21:26:11 http://ares.palm.com/AresDebug/ Apr 23 21:26:13 powersave_bias =166 Apr 23 21:26:26 It's definitely loading it when I update the feeds...but when I look at available packages, and switch to the feeds view, it's not there Apr 23 21:26:29 SO theoretically......All i would have to reinstall are my patches? Apr 23 21:26:52 whic I can now do via preware restore option? Apr 23 21:27:03 idontwan2know: the "feed" variable for the testing feed is "WebOS Internals" Apr 23 21:27:15 navinag: right Apr 23 21:27:20 hmmmmmmmmm Apr 23 21:27:25 (though i've never done any of it, these are mostly assumptions) Apr 23 21:27:29 Right, but I don't see any of the things that should be there. Apr 23 21:27:35 govnah? Apr 23 21:27:46 did you add both testing feeds? Apr 23 21:28:01 teh all and armv7 Apr 23 21:28:11 Can anyone else confirmt his or has done this? Apr 23 21:28:19 I just added the all one...wasn't aware there were two... Apr 23 21:28:29 this is strange Apr 23 21:28:40 I have scaling_min_freq set to 500000 Apr 23 21:28:55 but time_in_stats shows it running at 125000 Apr 23 21:28:55 idontwan2know: there is multiple Apr 23 21:29:00 armv7 for pre, armv6 for pixi Apr 23 21:29:06 i386 for emu Apr 23 21:29:24 Hmm...where can I find those? I only found the /all/ one on the wiki Apr 23 21:29:33 jhojho: the powersave bias was to make sure my cpu didn't stick at 800 all the time when it was busy, as my cpu can't take it Apr 23 21:29:41 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/ Apr 23 21:29:54 when you add the feed, instead of putting testing/all Apr 23 21:29:58 put testing/armv7 Apr 23 21:30:03 at the end of the url Apr 23 21:30:03 gotcha Apr 23 21:30:06 I will try that Apr 23 21:30:27 sbromwich: by setting powersave bias you are only reducing it by 5/1000 th Apr 23 21:30:42 which I guess it ticks down to 720.. Apr 23 21:30:58 jhojho: yup, exactly Apr 23 21:31:04 took some fiddling to find the best value Apr 23 21:31:11 oh, shapespin pdk plugin example Apr 23 21:31:22 well I wanted to set it to the closest possible for correct mhz Apr 23 21:31:32 i.e. I use 720 as my max freq Apr 23 21:31:56 I want it to bump down to 600 Apr 23 21:32:08 so in theory,powersave_bias should be 166 Apr 23 21:32:11 jhojho: it's the % chance of scaling down Apr 23 21:32:39 sbromwich: not according to the web page I ran across Apr 23 21:33:17 this was from reading the sourcee Apr 23 21:33:49 ohh Apr 23 21:34:30 ok, doctor is failing at 56% Apr 23 21:34:39 any X server users here? what apps work well on the Pre? Apr 23 21:36:10 what the hell is the doctor doing at 56% Apr 23 21:36:37 halfhalo-devdays: waiting for the other 44 percent? Apr 23 21:36:47 jacques, Abiword works quite nicely Apr 23 21:36:47 nice Apr 23 21:36:53 strange. not doing much on the phone Apr 23 21:36:53 b Apr 23 21:36:53 u Apr 23 21:36:59 t Apr 23 21:37:02 but now it;s ticked up to 36C Apr 23 21:37:02 jacques, also Pidgin works well Apr 23 21:37:24 phil_bw, thanks Apr 23 21:37:38 oh wait, battery reports 36c, cpu reports 30 Apr 23 21:37:54 phil_bw, you are using these from a debian chroot on the pre right? (not displayed remotely over network) Apr 23 21:38:11 brb restart Apr 23 21:38:38 jacques, correct with a customized fvwm setup to make using a mobile device... easiser Apr 23 21:38:53 are the dev days being streamed online at all? Apr 23 21:40:23 phil_bw, your fvwm setup is unique to you? Apr 23 21:40:40 oilsworkn: that did it, thanks! Apr 23 21:40:44 sbromwich, they are videoing the presentations, I dunno what they intend to do with it Apr 23 21:40:47 jacques, if you are using fvwm in any configuration if you add "Mouse 1 A C Scroll reverse" to your configuration it'll make it so you can hold the gesture area and pan around the screen Apr 23 21:40:50 np Apr 23 21:40:56 phil_bw, neat Apr 23 21:41:27 jacques, yes I changed the config files around a bunch to remove desktop-centric parts as well as add some virtual screens and whatnot Apr 23 21:41:32 jacques: ok thanks... feel free to ask them if you get the chance ;-) Apr 23 21:42:04 sbromwich, will do Apr 23 21:42:23 thanks :-) Apr 23 21:42:32 jacques, using a 3x3 configuration my screen space is basically 960x1440 (which will do for just about any X app) Apr 23 21:43:07 I guess someone can ask to put the sessions on justin.tv Apr 23 21:43:28 all the videos from the session will be posted "Soon." Apr 23 21:43:39 morning Apr 23 21:43:57 yo rwhitby Apr 23 21:44:43 phil_bw, oh wow - panning is working? Apr 23 21:45:03 phil_bw, I see you said that above - in too manu conversations at once :-\ Apr 23 21:45:07 jacques, it's a built in feature of fvwm if you just add that config line Apr 23 21:45:13 nice Apr 23 21:45:36 I hope to eventually get my custom configuration packaged up so it can be easily installed Apr 23 21:46:50 anyhow, off to pack for a camping trip Apr 23 21:46:52 * phil_bw wanders off Apr 23 21:47:54 EvanDotPro: please email me the new key Apr 23 21:48:12 rwhitby: will do Apr 23 21:48:33 gimme like 10 minutes to finish up this wrapper for "yum remove" i'm working on. Apr 23 21:49:40 who is the guy talking right now? Apr 23 21:49:59 chuq? Apr 23 21:50:11 chuq is the dude with the camera Apr 23 21:50:56 jhojho, I don't see him with a camera - which room are you in? Apr 23 21:51:14 who camera? Apr 23 21:51:21 chuq is the chap that said look a puppy Apr 23 21:51:24 pre finally being restored Apr 23 21:51:29 jhojho, thanks Apr 23 21:52:27 and.... now its stopping at 64% Apr 23 21:53:23 jhojho: yeah, we need to get Preware to subscribe to the app manager service so it can notice package installs and updates from the app catalog without having to update feeds Apr 23 21:54:13 k Apr 23 21:54:59 freq_reduc = freq_req * dbs_tuners_ins.powersave_bias / 1000; Apr 23 21:56:32 sbromwich: strange thing is that I have max set to 720 and min set to 500 Apr 23 21:56:37 powersave_bias set to 160 Apr 23 21:56:45 but see it bounce all over Apr 23 21:56:52 looking at time in state Apr 23 21:59:05 I think the docco might be on lesswatts.org, just searching Apr 23 22:03:07 sbromwich: did you see a diff between anticipatory, cfq and noop Apr 23 22:03:10 ? Apr 23 22:03:26 gah, theirsearch engine sucks Apr 23 22:03:29 yeah, sec Apr 23 22:04:09 www.fop.ns.ca/pre/bonnie_palmos.ods Apr 23 22:05:10 .ods? Apr 23 22:06:31 openoffice Apr 23 22:06:57 can't find it but I'm moderately sure intel doc'd powersave_bias and their experiments on lesswatts.org Apr 23 22:07:02 their search engine is down though Apr 23 22:10:03 oh I cant read that Apr 23 22:13:11 www.openoffice.org Apr 23 22:13:24 should have exported as a PDF Apr 23 22:13:25 not near a terminal I can convert it to html in Apr 23 22:13:34 ascii man Apr 23 22:13:43 uNiXpSyChO: should have told me atthe time ;-) Apr 23 22:13:55 nah, there's colours and stuff Apr 23 22:13:57 hehe. i have OO since i run Linux :) Apr 23 22:14:26 uNiXpSyChO: is that you volunteering? ;-) Apr 23 22:14:45 i can do it, sure. but i can post it back to your site. Apr 23 22:14:53 uNiXpSyChO: hi Apr 23 22:15:07 stick it wherever works for you, it's not super exciting data Apr 23 22:15:10 rwhitby: yodel Apr 23 22:15:32 ok... let me grab it... firefox keeps opening it as native plugin. Apr 23 22:16:00 ta :-) Apr 23 22:17:54 ouch. PDF export sucked... let me try another export Apr 23 22:18:05 sbromwich: BTW, ka6sox-work is gathering data in a kernels/tuning.git repo Apr 23 22:19:43 rwhitby: what sort of data? Apr 23 22:19:48 general tuning info? Apr 23 22:19:56 or specific testing data? Apr 23 22:20:01 sbromwich: any sort of data we want to put in there Apr 23 22:20:16 ka6sox-work: you're welcome to take a copy of my bonnie results there if they'd help :-) Apr 23 22:22:10 sbromwich, sure....more data would be good. Apr 23 22:23:16 www.fop.ns.ca/pre/bonnie_palmos.ods is my OO data Apr 23 22:26:41 just compared scrolling on my pre against a cow-orker's iphone... we couldn't see any appreciable difference in scrolling speed/smoothness Apr 23 22:26:53 any suggestions for other tests? Apr 23 22:27:10 he's a little busy... errr... flinging monkeys in his game but I'm sure I can distract him Apr 23 22:27:40 if you happen to have the same 3d game, that would be an excellent comparison Apr 23 22:27:44 http://unixpsycho.com/bonnie_palmos.xls Apr 23 22:27:50 PDF sucked Apr 23 22:27:57 all I have is the glyder demo :-/ Apr 23 22:28:00 thanks uNiXpSyChO :-) Apr 23 22:30:08 playing a video saved to the phone would be a good comparison as well, if they were similar sizes Apr 23 22:30:35 youtube? Apr 23 22:31:02 network speed would influence that Apr 23 22:33:07 govnah is definitely proving how useless the battery sensor temp sensor is Apr 23 22:33:24 idw2k|wirc: that's no surprise to me Apr 23 22:33:32 I've said that from day one Apr 23 22:33:54 battery temp sensor tells you how much the battery is charging or discharging Apr 23 22:34:05 getting temp warnings from the battery sensor while the internal sensor is humming along at 37c Apr 23 22:34:44 idw2k|wirc: got a twitter account? Apr 23 22:34:45 bloody hell the iphone is a jerky POS playing games Apr 23 22:35:21 much bitching from everyone playing the game that it's jerky Apr 23 22:36:13 awesome Apr 23 22:36:28 rwhitby: nope. why? Apr 23 22:36:28 just got a free phone from palm Apr 23 22:36:37 woohoo! Apr 23 22:36:39 AWW Apr 23 22:36:41 Pre or Pre Plus ? Apr 23 22:36:41 sweet Apr 23 22:36:53 nice Apr 23 22:37:18 * oilsworkn hates jhojho now Apr 23 22:37:21 :) Apr 23 22:38:52 jhojho: random draw or did everyone get one? Apr 23 22:39:23 jhojho: are you going to install Preware for everyone there? Apr 23 22:44:52 suddenly everyone @ the dev conference all disappear. Apr 23 22:45:22 tryin to get free phones Apr 23 22:45:41 general acknowledgement that the pre is better at gaming than the iphone based on glyder2 demo vs some driving game Apr 23 22:47:43 nope but I can tell them about it =) Apr 23 22:47:51 its a pre plus. Apr 23 22:47:58 too bad it's not a gsm pre plus Apr 23 22:48:59 what does it have on the mirror? palm or verizon? Apr 23 22:49:19 its a verizon pre Apr 23 22:49:27 oh Apr 23 22:49:39 with a free subscription? :> Apr 23 22:49:45 doubt it Apr 23 22:49:53 they usually give 1 or 3 months service Apr 23 22:49:56 but now I have to figure out what to call my new phone Apr 23 22:49:57 bummer Apr 23 22:50:05 but maybe they want you all to use Meta-Doctor on it Apr 23 22:50:06 decisions decisions Apr 23 22:50:19 I'll have to learn how to use meta doctor Apr 23 22:50:38 give me pre+ and I give u my sprint pre Apr 23 22:50:39 ;] Apr 23 22:50:43 jhojho: I'd call it gratuita, to go with my experia, virtura and natura Apr 23 22:50:43 we can trade :) Apr 23 22:50:53 freebee Apr 23 22:51:02 um no Apr 23 22:51:06 I have a sprint pre Apr 23 22:51:16 well then u will have twins Apr 23 22:51:16 :D Apr 23 22:51:21 I welcome the extra memory Apr 23 22:51:52 but a gsm one would have been nice for use overseas =) Apr 23 22:52:02 true Apr 23 22:52:03 :) Apr 23 22:52:13 I'm buying an unlocked german GSM Pre Plus as soon as it is released Apr 23 22:52:33 qwertz i don't like qwertz Apr 23 22:52:34 :S Apr 23 22:53:00 en0x: that's fixed by Meta-Doctor Apr 23 22:53:09 i know Apr 23 22:53:23 but u cant switch the keys on keyboard Apr 23 22:53:29 rut roh, donair order being placed for everyone in on the PDU outage... just as well it's the weekend tomorrow. Apr 23 22:53:40 he can swap the keys with one of the bajillion other pres he has Apr 23 22:53:58 hehehe Apr 23 22:54:02 * oilsworkn wonders what a bajillion pres looks like Apr 23 22:54:04 acydlord: haven't done that yet, still waiting for someone to send me a broken Pre that I can practice surgery on Apr 23 22:54:20 well u can take one apart Apr 23 22:54:25 u dont need 20 pres Apr 23 22:54:39 rwhitby, i'll keep that in mind, I know a few people who are probably gonna scrap their pres when the evo comes out Apr 23 22:55:01 but 20 pres is just enough to complete teh pre castle Apr 23 22:55:15 (like a card castle, but out of pres) Apr 23 22:55:17 or to make over-voltron Apr 23 22:55:40 true Apr 23 22:55:50 so noone got thru sprint to activate verizon's pre+ on their network? Apr 23 22:56:14 * oilsworkn thought about it Apr 23 22:56:15 dunno Apr 23 22:57:06 i havent heard about anyone doing it Apr 23 22:57:16 but sprint will let you activate damn near anything on their net Apr 23 22:58:35 i heard that they will activate anything that they have in their system... dunno about verizon's phones Apr 23 22:59:18 you can talk to the right people to get it added to the system' Apr 23 22:59:43 first u have to know the "right ppl" Apr 23 22:59:46 sprint will pretty much do anything to keep a customer Apr 23 23:00:21 you dont need to know the right people, you just need to know the phone number for executive support Apr 23 23:00:30 thats why i never got past the "thinking about it" stage Apr 23 23:00:34 too much work Apr 23 23:01:13 getting a sprint pre on verizon before the pre/pixi plus came out was quite a task Apr 23 23:01:15 There's a group in Oklahoma, level 3 tech i think, they can do pretty much anything afaik Apr 23 23:01:20 sprint is charging too much for the pre Apr 23 23:01:40 jhojho: it's free at a lot of their national retailers (ie: RS) Apr 23 23:01:52 * rwhitby bbl Apr 23 23:02:23 zsoc: true but this does not look good http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre-family.html Apr 23 23:02:32 less phone for more $$? Apr 23 23:02:37 jhojho: the reason they are charging to much for it is because there aren't any. There is very little channel inventory Apr 23 23:02:46 they don't want to have /no/ sprint webos phones to sell Apr 23 23:03:10 so they need to make the decision, push out sprint pluses, or go next gen Apr 23 23:03:44 so it looks like they only got shit load of pre+ for verizon Apr 23 23:03:47 not for sprint Apr 23 23:03:59 hmm :} so sprint is doing well with sale :d Apr 23 23:04:13 verizon and sprint sell through are both increasingly reasonable Apr 23 23:04:23 Q2 and Q3 sales I predict will be above targets Apr 23 23:04:41 I'm curious how it's going to take off on SFR Apr 23 23:05:09 few more days Apr 23 23:05:34 Sprint early adopter premier customers are going to be coming up on their upgrade soon. There needs to be another webOS phone. Apr 23 23:05:50 * oilsworkn wants that other webos phone Apr 23 23:05:56 yeah I'm due June 6th Apr 23 23:05:56 ;] Apr 23 23:06:11 oilsworkn: I don't want it if it's bigger than 4" Apr 23 23:06:15 the screen Apr 23 23:06:21 i don't want to carry a brick Apr 23 23:06:21 :P Apr 23 23:06:41 the pre size is good Apr 23 23:06:51 it's perfect for me Apr 23 23:07:06 zsoc true that Apr 23 23:07:29 my account is up for renewal on the pre in late july and the pixi in late november Apr 23 23:07:31 if it was a little larger with a higher rez screen Apr 23 23:07:35 and better build quality Apr 23 23:07:38 and slide out kb like pre Apr 23 23:08:12 just dont want oreo effect Apr 23 23:08:22 i never hed one Apr 23 23:08:25 s/hed/had/ Apr 23 23:08:25 en0x meant: i never had one Apr 23 23:08:44 I would LOVE a pixi if it had wifi and the same speed/processor/support Apr 23 23:08:45 my phone has been perfecto since day 1 Apr 23 23:08:49 i really did the form factor Apr 23 23:08:53 oh, and faster Apr 23 23:08:55 and more memory Apr 23 23:08:57 I do like the pixi Apr 23 23:08:58 and everything Apr 23 23:09:03 more kitchen sink Apr 23 23:09:07 pixi is nice Apr 23 23:09:11 screen is a tad small for me Apr 23 23:09:12 but without wifi is a bummer Apr 23 23:09:19 pixi keyboard is SO much nicer Apr 23 23:09:19 if it had wifi I would get it for my sis Apr 23 23:09:21 zsoc, yeah, i wish the pixi had the power of the pre, i'm not a fan of the lag i sometimes get just doing day to day tasks, like texting Apr 23 23:10:02 having never held or looked at an actual pixi in real life, i can't speak much to it Apr 23 23:10:03 acydlord: that's the flash flushing out Apr 23 23:10:12 but the emulator at pixi rez seems tooooo smalkl Apr 23 23:10:13 small* Apr 23 23:10:16 acydlord: actually a stock pixi has more bogomips than a stock pre Apr 23 23:10:33 bogomis are nothing Apr 23 23:10:42 anyway the screen on pixi is weird Apr 23 23:10:43 bogomips are... bogus Apr 23 23:10:52 the screen/rez on the pixi isnt anywhere close to a dealbreaker Apr 23 23:10:53 * oilsworkn thought he made the word up and had to google it Apr 23 23:11:14 lol Apr 23 23:11:19 of course. but it's a measure (for some defn of measure) Apr 23 23:23:09 Precorder 0.5.4 bumped in testing feed. Apr 23 23:44:27 Is this a good channel to discuss the wiki? Apr 23 23:44:57 yup Apr 23 23:45:47 Ok. I was just curious about adding some content. There's a page discussing making a script to do interval random wallpaper switching. Apr 23 23:46:20 I was using "switcharoo" an app that does this, but I found it to be unstable, so I wanted to make some scripts for myself. Apr 23 23:47:10 I just finished mine, but they use a different method than the ones on the wiki. My question is, should a make a different page, or maybe add to that one? Apr 23 23:47:42 I feel like mine may have an advantage, since they don't require you to install bash or cron to get the job done. Apr 23 23:48:00 you've written your own app? Apr 23 23:48:11 it's a script.. Apr 23 23:48:55 The original guide is at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Random_Wallpaper_Switching Apr 23 23:49:29 I would recommend creating your own... http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Help:Contents has all the necessary info for style guidelines and the like Apr 23 23:51:50 Ok, thanks. I didn't want to just start adding content to the wiki with some kind of say-so. Especially since there's such a similar page already. Apr 23 23:52:10 it would be polite to point at the other page as an alternative option Apr 23 23:52:17 other than that... I would say go for it Apr 23 23:52:19 shall do. Apr 23 23:52:22 more docco is always good :-)( Apr 23 23:52:24 thanks a lot Apr 23 23:52:26 np Apr 23 23:52:38 I figure there may be a small market for this sort of thing Apr 23 23:52:52 is it gpl? Apr 23 23:53:04 yes full open, no disclaimers Apr 23 23:53:13 sweet, good job Apr 23 23:53:46 I feel like it works a little better than switcharoo because it uses upstart Apr 23 23:54:24 oh, nice Apr 23 23:54:32 definitely a better solution Apr 23 23:58:13 yo anyone there? Apr 24 00:00:33 so, sbromwich, could you tell me what are the requisites / conditions for making a patch? Apr 24 00:00:45 I'm looking for rwhitby's resume...anyone have a link? Apr 24 00:03:27 Larry, Rod seems to have his own web site, rwhitby.net Apr 24 00:04:37 i know...i was looking at it Apr 24 00:04:46 but I couldn't find his resume Apr 24 00:04:58 he shot it to me once, but I'm having trouble now... Apr 24 00:06:52 thanks guys, gotta run. I'll make sure I link thru that page when I make the new one. Apr 24 00:50:18 damnit wth. Why am i getting "too many cards" errors when I'm not even touching my phone? They are popping up on their own! Apr 24 00:53:34 hednod: memory leaks. reboot time Apr 24 01:02:48 some background app was trying to start Apr 24 01:02:50 haha Apr 24 01:02:54 or telephone calls Apr 24 01:11:30 hello Apr 24 01:11:46 For some reason Im not able to send or receive text form a certain contact. I've re-added them and nothing Apr 24 01:12:02 Using the contact fly-up and pressing the sms butotn does nothing at all too. Apr 24 01:12:06 ever heard of this? Apr 24 01:12:19 are you sharing the account in any way? Apr 24 01:12:34 facebook Apr 24 01:12:34 only time I heard of that someone was on... family and friends or something I think it's called? Apr 24 01:12:39 Oh.. no Apr 24 01:12:51 couldn't receive sms from the person they were on the same account IIRC Apr 24 01:12:59 I added her number through an existing facebook account Apr 24 01:13:03 no connection between you and the person you can't receive? Apr 24 01:13:05 weird... Apr 24 01:13:09 very. Apr 24 01:13:19 can you sms the number directly if you delete the contact? Apr 24 01:13:47 i tried manually.. but the contact was in. Apr 24 01:14:00 im going to add the contry code in front (so its a diff. number) try that Apr 24 01:14:31 Hmm no go. Apr 24 01:14:32 I suspect something wonky in the number from facebook... anyone else have similar issues with her at all that you know of? Apr 24 01:14:56 well, there was no number in facebook. but when I "Added it to existing contact" that must have casued a bug Apr 24 01:15:11 yeah, that's a new one on me Apr 24 01:15:23 do you know which version of webos you're on? Apr 24 01:15:40 1.4.1.1 Apr 24 01:15:46 im going to remove the facebook account. Apr 24 01:15:55 and see if i can send then Apr 24 01:16:19 hmmm... definitely a weird one Apr 24 01:16:26 beats me I'm afraid :-( Apr 24 01:21:00 * rwhitby wonders why LarrySteeze is looking for me resume ... Apr 24 01:22:28 he wants to drown you in money obv Apr 24 01:22:36 preoccupied: test 0.5.4 please Apr 24 01:22:51 zsoc: ok Apr 24 01:23:17 preoccupied: description is fully updated with 0.5.3 and 0.5.4 changelog, if you'd like to fix the wiki too :D Apr 24 01:26:16 folks, how's developer days going ? Apr 24 01:26:46 they got free pre plusses Apr 24 01:26:47 thinking about coming up but I have to drive up from San Diego which is pretty far Apr 24 01:26:55 oil: serious ? Apr 24 01:26:58 yeah Apr 24 01:27:08 well, a couple of people did Apr 24 01:27:09 oh shit, then I'd better get up there, for Sprint ? Apr 24 01:27:10 idk if EVERYONE did Apr 24 01:27:16 verizon Apr 24 01:27:25 shit, I need it for Sprint Apr 24 01:27:55 what else is going on ? Apr 24 01:28:00 how's the sessions ? Apr 24 01:28:40 zsoc: lol, i'll fix it Apr 24 01:29:16 ty Apr 24 01:29:26 gnuboy tested on palm pixi?? anyone know? Apr 24 01:29:38 can I still register for tomorrow onsite ? Apr 24 01:30:49 the error seems minimal: directfb_> no supported modes found in /etc/fb.modes and current mode is not supported... Apr 24 01:31:09 k-|: pixi has no sdl support yet afaik Apr 24 01:31:24 ok, so are there any alternatives? Apr 24 01:31:36 diff emu, etc.. Apr 24 01:32:04 it doesn't have to be *niux specific Apr 24 01:32:13 just an emulator that uses roms Apr 24 01:33:13 preoccupied1: if you're looking for something particular to test, i've managed to segfault a few times (you can tell because you'll get an error that the service isn't running) Apr 24 01:34:36 well thanks for that Apr 24 01:34:39 oops Apr 24 01:45:20 zsoc: you segfaulted with precorder? Apr 24 01:45:32 zsoc: sorry it's taking a while...my phone has been really unstable lately Apr 24 01:45:48 preoccupied: must be all the software you're testing ;) Apr 24 01:45:54 I've reproduced it twice, yes. Apr 24 01:46:01 zsoc: yeah...haha Apr 24 01:46:17 but not in a reliable way i can continually reproduce.. Apr 24 01:46:25 and not with any sort of logging on at the time Apr 24 01:46:30 zsoc: ok, the timer's not counting... Apr 24 01:46:46 preoccupied: !!! you also? Apr 24 01:46:51 preoccupied: uninstall/reinstall and it works Apr 24 01:47:01 apparently the binary isn't being replaced on upgrade Apr 24 01:47:06 Dx Apr 24 01:47:10 zsoc: ok, i'll try that Apr 24 01:47:46 I'm still trying to figure out if it's worth the cpu usage for querying so often.. it's set to basic priority tho so it doesn't interfere much Apr 24 01:47:52 i'm still tweaking out settings and things Apr 24 01:48:44 zsoc: ok. maybe you shouldn't update so often... Apr 24 01:48:44 zsoc: maybe use a js timer and sync the js timer every five seconds? Apr 24 01:48:44 that should cut down on the usage... Apr 24 01:49:10 preoccupied: that's what i was thinking Apr 24 01:49:19 preoccupied: but the problem is, a js timer is 100 times less efficient Apr 24 01:49:20 maybe 200 times Apr 24 01:49:26 so it's actually worse Apr 24 01:49:42 maybe a C timer, that syncs every 5 seconds... Apr 24 01:50:06 either way it's a messy proccess. the way it is right now works well /enough/ i think Apr 24 01:51:39 zsoc: well, it depends on whether polling that often in js is less efficient than counting in js Apr 24 01:51:56 zsoc: and yeah, the timer works beautifully now Apr 24 01:52:34 preoccupied: the /nice/ thing is.. if for some reason the timer lags or something is up, the filesink is async, so the next update is going to be accurate, so the timer always ends up being correct eventually Apr 24 01:53:04 only problem i forsee is, when i'm pulling db's for voice activation, i'll need the filesink to sync to the pipeline clock, so i'm unsure how the timer will react to that Apr 24 01:53:43 oh that's perfect, the timer can stop (and maybe a pause symbol can come up) so you know the input volume is below the voice activation threashold Apr 24 01:53:44 zsoc: lol, ok. you know best...haha. Apr 24 01:54:01 i'm not sure if i want to get into this now tho.. it's a pretty big framework to set up Apr 24 01:54:23 yes you do Apr 24 01:54:27 preoccupied: i'm thinking about moving the record/stop/play buttons into a commandMenu with icons instead of words, and then maybe 0.5.5 is a public beta? Apr 24 01:54:30 zsoc: and when are you gonna announce this to the P|C masses? Apr 24 01:54:40 oh...haha same thought Apr 24 01:55:30 zsoc: why do you want to remove the icons... Apr 24 01:55:43 wouldn't that make it harder to start & stop the audio? Apr 24 01:55:51 digging through menus are slow Apr 24 01:58:20 preoccupied: .. remove? Apr 24 01:58:25 preoccupied: no no... replace words with icons Apr 24 01:58:34 preoccupied: like a red circle for record... white square for stop... Apr 24 01:59:04 zsoc: oh, yeah. good idea Apr 24 02:49:54 how were the deb days today ? Apr 24 02:49:59 dev rather Apr 24 02:55:25 whenever I try to update feeds in Preware, it takes a long time and I'm getting a bunch of errors like "wget: bad address 'ipkg.preware.org'" over and over. any idea what's wrong? Apr 24 02:58:16 WillJitsu: you have no data connection Apr 24 02:59:49 hmm strange. it shows that I have one, but you're right, none of my others apps are working. I'll try restarting. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 24 02:59:56 2010