**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 24 02:59:56 2010
Apr 24 03:00:07 <zsoc> no
Apr 24 03:00:09 <zsoc> don't do that
Apr 24 03:00:10 <zsoc> ever
Apr 24 03:00:20 <zsoc> WillJitsu: go into airplane mode, and back out
Apr 24 03:02:53 <Spyral> exit
Apr 24 03:03:04 <Spyral> whoops
Apr 24 03:04:47 <bpadalino> how embarrassing!
Apr 24 03:04:55 <Spyral> yeah. lol
Apr 24 03:05:30 <WillJitsu> zsoc: I had already rebooted when you said that. It fixed it though. thanks
Apr 24 03:05:38 <zsoc> kk
Apr 24 03:20:08 <sethron> i have a Sprint Pre that was submerged in water with the battery was left in. the display never  turned back on, but there are dong-ding if it's turned on.
Apr 24 03:21:01 <sethron> i'd be happy to donate it to science, but without the battery.
Apr 24 03:25:37 <rwhitby> sethron: I'll take that
Apr 24 03:25:55 <rwhitby> sethron: how much do you want for it?
Apr 24 03:26:11 <sethron> consider it a donation
Apr 24 03:26:29 <rwhitby> sethron: let me pay for shipping
Apr 24 03:26:40 <sethron> very well
Apr 24 03:26:50 <rwhitby> sethron: can you accept PayPal?
Apr 24 03:27:22 <rwhitby> sethron: how long ago was it submerged?
Apr 24 03:27:31 <sethron> not sure i do have a paypal account, but just to pay for items
Apr 24 03:27:55 <rwhitby> I'll be able to transfer a credit to your paypal account
Apr 24 03:27:57 <sethron> rwhitby: several months, was wife's phone.
Apr 24 03:28:11 <rwhitby> sethron: any attempts at drying it out afterwards?
Apr 24 03:28:24 * rwhitby is thinking of salvaging the keyboard perhaps
Apr 24 03:29:34 <sethron> rwhitby: yes, but it has been a while, and am thinking I'll try to start it and USB to remove photos or what not
Apr 24 03:30:07 <rwhitby> sethron: ok, let me know when it's ready to ship
Apr 24 03:30:18 <rwhitby> sethron: see /msg for email address
Apr 24 03:30:46 <sethron> rwhitby: roger
Apr 24 04:35:23 <jacques> howdy jhojho
Apr 24 04:36:00 <rwhitby> jacques: how was dinner?
Apr 24 04:36:42 <jacques> rwhitby, very good. conversation was great
Apr 24 04:37:00 <jhojho> howdy
Apr 24 04:37:19 <jhojho> just got in after dropping rick and another chap off
Apr 24 04:37:35 <jhojho> and thx to #palm team for picking up dinner
Apr 24 04:37:44 * jacques lost his ride and walked - it was pleasant
Apr 24 04:37:49 <jhojho> oops
Apr 24 04:38:10 <jacques> no, it was much shorter than the walk to in-n-out yesterday
Apr 24 04:38:18 <jacques> s/no/np/
Apr 24 04:38:19 <infobot> jacques meant: np, it was much shorter than the walk to in-n-out yesterday
Apr 24 04:38:21 <jhojho> I'm trying to decide if i'm too tired to meta doctor my new pre plus =)
Apr 24 04:38:40 <jacques> jhojho, I'm not too tired, I'm just charging mine up first
Apr 24 04:38:56 <jhojho> yeah I'm doing that too
Apr 24 04:38:58 <jacques> BTW, what's the deal with the tiny chargers?
Apr 24 04:39:10 <jhojho> they arent any smaller are they?
Apr 24 04:39:27 <jhojho> oh wait I did notice that the pixi charger was smaller
Apr 24 04:39:28 <jacques> yeah, the plus one is like a pixi charger
Apr 24 04:39:35 <jhojho> that's fine with me.
Apr 24 04:39:49 <jhojho> what I like is that I now have one more charger
Apr 24 04:39:50 <jacques> yeah I'll probably start carrying that one
Apr 24 04:40:08 <jhojho> I wonder how much the palm store is going to be selling the touchstone for tomorrow
Apr 24 04:40:37 <jacques> jhojho, what did you hear?
Apr 24 04:41:04 <jacques> they have a store at palm ?
Apr 24 04:42:05 <jhojho> i think so. they were saying something about 30% off
Apr 24 04:42:16 <jhojho> if the touchstone is cheap enuff. I'll pick one up
Apr 24 04:42:19 <jacques> if I don't have any problems with the plus keyboard, I will try to find a friendly sprint rep to get the plus on my spring account
Apr 24 04:42:35 <jhojho> jacques: let me know how that goes.
Apr 24 04:42:41 <jacques> jhojho, I really like my touchstone
Apr 24 04:42:48 <jhojho> would love to use the pre plus on sprint
Apr 24 04:42:57 <jhojho> oh I have one already
Apr 24 04:43:04 <jhojho> just want another for the gfs
Apr 24 04:43:06 <jhojho> place
Apr 24 04:43:31 <jacques> I got mine one time when bestbuy had them on sale for $42
Apr 24 04:45:35 <rwhitby> jacques: if they have a touchstone back going cheap at the palm store, can you pick one up for me?
Apr 24 04:45:45 <rwhitby> (just the back, not the touchstone itself)
Apr 24 04:46:20 <jacques> rwhitby, I didn't know you were looking for one - I have an extra - I bought two touchstones but can only use one back
Apr 24 04:46:54 <webf> i still haven't replaced my back after i accidentally left the phone on top of my car while taking out the trash ... then i drove off and another car drove over it, oops!
Apr 24 04:47:04 <jacques> rwhitby, (you can have it)
Apr 24 04:47:15 <rwhitby> jacques: awesome
Apr 24 04:47:28 <jhojho> hmm the meta-doctor page looks involved
Apr 24 04:47:40 <rwhitby> jhojho: do you have a linux or mac ?
Apr 24 04:47:44 <webf> i haven't replaced it because i'm teaching myself a lesson on how to own nice things, haha
Apr 24 04:47:46 <jhojho> both
Apr 24 04:47:55 <rwhitby> jhojho: then it's a single command on both
Apr 24 04:48:02 <jacques> webf, :-(
Apr 24 04:48:03 <jhojho> I even have linux on a mac (vmware) =)
Apr 24 04:48:15 <rwhitby> jhojho: do you have macports on the mac?
Apr 24 04:48:26 <jhojho> rwhitby: the wiki page looks a lot more involved ...
Apr 24 04:48:28 <jhojho> no
Apr 24 04:48:36 <jhojho> no macports for me.
Apr 24 04:48:42 <rwhitby> jhojho: ubuntu running in vmware?
Apr 24 04:48:57 <jhojho> I have that.
Apr 24 04:49:06 <jhojho> also have 2 other "real" linux boxen
Apr 24 04:49:14 <rwhitby> jhojho: git clone the meta-doctor dir, uncomment some lines, put the doctor in the right place, and "make all-verizonwireless"
Apr 24 04:49:33 <jacques> jhojho, what do you want to change with meta-doctor? the dev plus is already activation bypassed and in dev mode
Apr 24 04:49:43 <rwhitby> jacques: activation bypassed?
Apr 24 04:49:44 <Rick_work> they already meta-doctored it.
Apr 24 04:49:51 <jhojho> o rly?
Apr 24 04:49:52 <jacques> I will do the 2GiB /var thing on mine
Apr 24 04:49:52 <Rick_work> it came meta-doctored.
Apr 24 04:49:54 <jhojho> cool
Apr 24 04:49:55 <rwhitby> Rick_work: seriously, they used meta-doctor ?
Apr 24 04:49:58 <Rick_work> yes, really.
Apr 24 04:50:00 <jhojho> I havent even looked at it yet
Apr 24 04:50:04 <rwhitby> *awesome*
Apr 24 04:50:06 <jacques> howdy Rick_work
Apr 24 04:50:15 <jhojho> that is all kinds of awesome
Apr 24 04:50:15 <Rick_work> they used "an un-named tool to bypass activation on the phones."
Apr 24 04:50:20 <jhojho> lol
Apr 24 04:50:28 <rwhitby> Rick_work: is that a quotable fact?
Apr 24 04:50:34 <jhojho> I bet it's called bypass_activation_tool
Apr 24 04:50:36 <jacques> with 16GiB flash, 2GiB /var makes even more sense :-)
Apr 24 04:50:36 <Rick_work> wink wink nudge nudge point at the webos-internals devs.
Apr 24 04:50:56 <jhojho> meh,
Apr 24 04:51:05 <jhojho> dont feel the need for a 2gb /var
Apr 24 04:51:06 <Rick_work> rwhitby  let me get an exact quite from adora or lemke tommorow.
Apr 24 04:51:10 <rwhitby> jacques: we can verify whether it was meta-doctored or not
Apr 24 04:51:21 <jacques> rwhitby, how?
Apr 24 04:51:22 <rwhitby> jacques: can you get a command line on it?
Apr 24 04:51:27 <Rick_work> but I know they have used meta-doctor before.
Apr 24 04:51:31 <jacques> I had it a few hours ago
Apr 24 04:51:42 <jacques> give me a sec
Apr 24 04:52:19 <rwhitby> I can tell whether they used a recent version or not, too.
Apr 24 04:52:39 <Rick_work> hey, this thing CAME with a touchstone back.
Apr 24 04:52:40 <Rick_work> cool.
Apr 24 04:52:50 <jacques> rwhitby, ok i have cmdline on plus
Apr 24 04:52:52 <rwhitby> "grep -C 5 /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/controllers/app-assistant.js"
Apr 24 04:53:07 <rwhitby> Rick_work: all plusses have a touchstone back
Apr 24 04:53:19 <Rick_work> kk  I didn't know that.
Apr 24 04:53:28 <Rick_work> mine is booting
Apr 24 04:54:21 <jacques> rwhitby, that grep command hangs
Apr 24 04:54:28 <rwhitby> "grep -C 5 setupFirstUse /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/controllers/app-assistant.js"
Apr 24 04:54:30 <rwhitby> sorry
Apr 24 04:54:48 <rwhitby> and "grep -C 5 simnotfound /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/controllers/app-assistant.js"
Apr 24 04:55:42 <destinal> Rick_work: yay dev pre's
Apr 24 04:55:46 <jacques> rwhitby, what am I looking for?
Apr 24 04:55:57 <rwhitby> jacques: pastebin the output of both?
Apr 24 04:56:11 <jacques> 'k
Apr 24 04:57:07 <jacques> wtf pastebin is down?
Apr 24 04:57:38 <webf> wow, i've not seen that before
Apr 24 04:57:54 <jacques> and pastebin.ca returns a blank page
Apr 24 04:58:17 <rwhitby> pastie.org
Apr 24 04:58:18 <jacques> those are the only two I know - any more to try?
Apr 24 04:58:21 <jacques> 'k
Apr 24 04:58:42 <webf> oh that's a new one for me.
Apr 24 04:58:53 <jhojho> pastee.org too?
Apr 24 04:59:10 <jhojho> I like pastee
Apr 24 04:59:10 <jacques> http://pastie.org/932644
Apr 24 04:59:20 <webf> very ajaxy
Apr 24 04:59:44 <webf> not pastee, pastie, oh confusion.
Apr 24 04:59:46 <jacques> http://pastie.org/932645
Apr 24 04:59:58 <rwhitby> ok, they did not use Meta-Doctor to bypass activation
Apr 24 05:00:12 <Rick_work> use dpaste  or pastie
Apr 24 05:00:31 <jacques> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasties
Apr 24 05:00:52 <Rick_work> ok, how did you decide that rwhitby  ?
Apr 24 05:01:06 <rwhitby> Rick_work: no signature of the bypass-activation patch
Apr 24 05:02:24 <rwhitby> it would have http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/meta-doctor.git;a=blob;f=patches/pre-p100ueu-wr-1.4.0/bypass-activation.patch stuff in it if they had
Apr 24 05:03:41 * sethron fascinating
Apr 24 05:03:43 <Rick_work> kk
Apr 24 05:04:04 <jhojho> fwiw: not really loving the ondemand gov on the uberkernel.
Apr 24 05:04:11 <jhojho> switching to performance instead
Apr 24 05:04:38 <Rick_work> want to take the dev phone to uberkernal.  So, which feed is that on?
Apr 24 05:04:43 <jacques> I was just reading about ondemand gov yesterday
Apr 24 05:04:45 <jhojho> testing feed
Apr 24 05:04:55 <jhojho> it bounces around too much
Apr 24 05:04:58 <jacques> ondemand has issues and is being re-written
Apr 24 05:05:06 <jhojho> yes
Apr 24 05:05:18 <jhojho> another reason to move to a newer kernel
Apr 24 05:05:24 <rwhitby> ~testing-feed
Apr 24 05:05:25 <infobot> hmm... testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds
Apr 24 05:05:47 <jhojho> ondemand needs up_threshold set to 20
Apr 24 05:05:50 <jacques> http://lwn.net/Articles/384132/
Apr 24 05:05:59 <jhojho> I was reading that somewhere last night
Apr 24 05:06:13 <rwhitby> Rick_work, jacques: we want to forensic these devices to work out how Palm skipped activation
Apr 24 05:06:34 <rwhitby> Rick_work, jacques: first step is to check /md5sums to see if any files are changed after install
Apr 24 05:06:58 <rwhitby> Rick_work, jacques: then check "ipkg list_installed" (yes, no -o option) to see if there are any additional packages installed
Apr 24 05:07:17 <rwhitby> then diff anything that pops up against a normal doctor
Apr 24 05:07:46 <jhojho> jacques: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jauderho/240292099/
Apr 24 05:07:57 <rwhitby> and if someone is going to doctor one at any time, make sure we try running first-use first to see what it does
Apr 24 05:08:13 <jacques> rwhitby, http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2051&Itemid=21
Apr 24 05:08:26 <jhojho> jacques: wrong cut and paste =)
Apr 24 05:08:34 <jhojho> http://www.pantz.org/software/cpufreq/usingcpufreqonlinux.html
Apr 24 05:08:41 <jacques> http://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/ActivationBypass/2010-04-16/devicetool.jar
Apr 24 05:08:48 <jacques> rwhitby, ^^^
Apr 24 05:09:27 <rwhitby> jacques: where did that URL come from?
Apr 24 05:09:38 * jacques wonders why the activation bypass tool is a 25MB .jar
Apr 24 05:09:48 <jacques> rwhitby, from the slip of paper in the goodie bag :-D
Apr 24 05:10:22 <jacques> actually it says "visit developer.palm.com and search for "unactivated device""
Apr 24 05:11:39 <jacques> what's sweatshop-verizon-castle - 1.0-47 - Version 1.0-47 of package sweatshop-verizon-castle ?
Apr 24 05:11:44 <jhojho> jacques: I do not have a lwn subscription
Apr 24 05:11:45 <jhojho> =)
Apr 24 05:11:51 <rwhitby> jacques: ok, I've reverse engineered that one, thanks.
Apr 24 05:12:08 <Rick_work> so what did they do?
Apr 24 05:12:51 <rwhitby> They did the same as meta-doctor BYPASS_FIRST_USE and ENABLE_DEV_MODE, but did it in Java by booting a ramdisk, starting lvm, mounting /var, and touching the required files.
Apr 24 05:12:52 <jacques> jhojho, sorry, I didn't know if the article was available yet (they become available after some time)
Apr 24 05:13:41 <jacques> what all does devicetool.jar do that requires it to be 25MB?
Apr 24 05:13:45 <rwhitby> Rick_work, jacques: what are the prereqs for running devicetool.jar ?
Apr 24 05:13:46 <Rick_work> Well, that's clever, and doesn't require downloading the entire doctor....
Apr 24 05:13:54 <rwhitby> jacques: They did the same as meta-doctor BYPASS_FIRST_USE and ENABLE_DEV_MODE, but did it in Java by booting a ramdisk, starting lvm, mounting /var, and touching the required files.
Apr 24 05:14:06 <rwhitby> jacques: so it includes the kernel and initramfs too
Apr 24 05:14:12 <jacques> "To use the tool, you need to have installed Java and the latest webOS SDK (which includes Palm's Novacom driver)."
Apr 24 05:14:22 <rwhitby> ok, that gels
Apr 24 05:14:50 <rwhitby> so we still don't have a preware installer that is smaller than the SDK or Doctor :(
Apr 24 05:15:02 <jacques> ah, the ramdisk makes it big?
Apr 24 05:15:25 <jhojho> ugh. I hate having to use woqi to install preware.
Apr 24 05:15:37 <rwhitby> jacques: it has both castle and pixie uImage files
Apr 24 05:15:53 <jacques> jhojho, I installed preware using the bootstrap script before I left palm :-)
Apr 24 05:16:12 <Rick_work> There's the preware-install.jar
Apr 24 05:16:13 <jhojho> enh?
Apr 24 05:16:22 <Rick_work> jhojho  go to preware.org
Apr 24 05:16:26 <jacques> jhojho, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Preware_Bootstrap
Apr 24 05:16:37 <Rick_work> or that
Apr 24 05:16:48 <jhojho> whoa
Apr 24 05:16:50 <jacques> phone is already in dev mode, assuming you have novaterm access and wifi, it works great
Apr 24 05:17:12 <Rick_work> dev mode with activation bypassed.
Apr 24 05:17:18 <jhojho> cmdline. YAY!
Apr 24 05:17:28 <rwhitby> Rick_work: no, I don't think it has activation bypassed
Apr 24 05:17:36 <jhojho> okay. will do that..
Apr 24 05:17:36 <rwhitby> Rick_work: I believe it only has first use app bypassed
Apr 24 05:18:01 <rwhitby> Rick_work: I suspect if you run the first use app, it will attempt to activate
Apr 24 05:18:15 <rwhitby> palm-launch com.palm.app.firstuse
Apr 24 05:19:08 <rwhitby> the only difference between it and a freshly doctored device is two zero-length files
Apr 24 05:19:43 <rwhitby> so if you can get a carrier to accept it, you can just run firstuse app to activate it
Apr 24 05:20:39 <webf> shoot.  just checked the laundry, i don't think the dryer is getting hot.  looks like i have a new repair project for tomorrow morning.
Apr 24 05:21:44 <webf> they're CDMA devices, right?
Apr 24 05:22:01 <jacques> webf, yep
Apr 24 05:22:07 <rwhitby> jacques: that URL is now http://bit.ly/official-palm-firstuse-bypass
Apr 24 05:22:24 <rwhitby> and tweeted
Apr 24 05:22:37 <jacques> cool
Apr 24 05:23:31 * rwhitby wishes they had Index support enabled on http://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/
Apr 24 05:23:57 <jacques> heh, that would be to easy
Apr 24 05:24:05 <jacques> s/to/too/
Apr 24 05:24:05 <infobot> jacques meant: heh, that would be too easy
Apr 24 05:25:27 <Rick_work> ok, preware on the phone now....
Apr 24 05:27:50 <Rick_work> Goodie bag contents.  1 verizon pre-plus.  One palm engraved beer glass.  One copy of Mitch Allen's webos book. one black and silver palm logo carboard card with developer.palm.com ad on the reverse.  One palm logo sticker.  One 1/2 page handout about your new spiffy developer phone.
Apr 24 05:28:15 <rwhitby> Rick_work: what else is on the hand-out ?
Apr 24 05:28:15 <webf> ohhh, beer mug or glass?
Apr 24 05:28:22 <rwhitby> glass
Apr 24 05:28:24 <Rick_work> glass.
Apr 24 05:28:41 <rwhitby> there's a picture on #palmdev twitter
Apr 24 05:28:58 <jhojho> I havent looked closely inside the bag. thought it was just the phone, book and glass
Apr 24 05:29:08 <Rick_work> "Congratultions on your new Palm Pre Plus! Carrier activation has been bypassedo n this phone to give you the best possible development environment without incurring any monthly charges."
Apr 24 05:29:25 <webf> hah
Apr 24 05:29:48 <Rick_work> Limitations:
Apr 24 05:29:54 <Rick_work> * no ota updates.
Apr 24 05:30:05 <Rick_work> * no phone, no sms.
Apr 24 05:30:27 <Rick_work> * no carrier data services.  Wifi only.  Mobile hotspot will not function.
Apr 24 05:30:44 <Rick_work> * no palm profile, you have to re-create accounts after doctoring
Apr 24 05:30:55 <Rick_work> * no app catalog content, although the app will run.
Apr 24 05:31:11 <Rick_work> * GPS will be slow without carrier assist.
Apr 24 05:31:32 <Rick_work> To activate, doctor and call Verizon.
Apr 24 05:31:51 <Rick_work> (unless you know someone with pull at Sprint.)
Apr 24 05:32:17 <webf> i would sweet talk a Sprint rep.
Apr 24 05:32:25 <rwhitby> Note that you can use Meta-Doctor and remove most of those limitations
Apr 24 05:32:33 <Rick_work> nodnod
Apr 24 05:32:39 <Rick_work> except for the whole "phone" part.
Apr 24 06:14:52 * destinal wishes he could have made it
Apr 24 06:14:59 <destinal>  gotta start going to events, you guys have all the fun (and toys) :)
Apr 24 06:15:31 <jacques> destinal, please do start coming to events
Apr 24 06:17:00 <destinal> plus most of them are in CA (my home state that I currently live a ways away from but get homesick for on occasion)
Apr 24 06:18:07 <destinal> that and there's no in-n-out  burger in Colorado :P
Apr 24 06:20:50 <royce> whwh
Apr 24 06:21:29 <Rick_work> jacques  tommorow, please let's hook up better.
Apr 24 06:22:22 <jacques> Rick_work, sounds good
Apr 24 06:25:55 <royce> I'm getting an error when trying to install an app and it says to do ipkg update?
Apr 24 06:26:50 <royce> I'm not sure what that is
Apr 24 06:29:06 <rwhitby> royce: "Update Feeds"
Apr 24 06:30:29 <royce> oh in the main pulldown. Ok thanks
Apr 24 06:38:46 <rwhitby> OK, I think the govnah service should now have enough methods working for oil to complete the first phase of the Govnah app.
Apr 24 06:39:11 <rwhitby> maybe he'll do that while I celebrate ANZAC day tomorrow
Apr 24 06:39:32 <oil> anzac?
Apr 24 06:39:55 <rwhitby> http://www.awm.gov.au/commemoration/anzac/anzac_tradition.asp
Apr 24 06:43:24 <oil> oh
Apr 24 06:44:41 <rwhitby> we have a sleep-over vigil for the cubs and scouts tonight, and then take them to the dawn service in the morning, and then to the local Returned Services League club to mingle with the Diggers.
Apr 24 06:45:32 <rwhitby> oh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digger_(soldier)
Apr 24 06:47:07 <rwhitby> so I'll be offline from about now+2h to now+16h, right when the keynote is happening tomorrow at #palmdev
Apr 24 06:47:47 <rwhitby> actually now+2h to now+18h
Apr 24 06:50:04 <rwhitby> oil: so I added a 'governor' argument to get and set params, to enable going into the stuff that is in the governor-specific subdir
Apr 24 06:50:28 <oil> so on the governor selectlist change
Apr 24 06:50:40 <oil> im going to set, then send it with the request for params
Apr 24 06:50:46 <rwhitby> yes
Apr 24 06:51:21 <MiX-MaN> Ok.. im in a debate with my bro.. which would you rather have when naming mp3s: "Artist\(Year) Album\Artist - Album - Track - Songname.ext" or "Artist\(Year) Album\Track Songname.ext"
Apr 24 06:51:49 <rwhitby> oil: so you'll need to record whether a specific param is top-level or in a governor subdir (maybe in the same table as the type)
Apr 24 06:52:38 <rwhitby> and pass the governor name with the request to set the governor-specific params in addition to setting the governor-independent ones
Apr 24 06:53:22 <rwhitby> oil: it sure reduced the number of service methods :)
Apr 24 06:53:29 <oil> lol
Apr 24 06:53:41 <oil> and not one that has the different stats lumped together?
Apr 24 06:53:55 <rwhitby> and now I know how to traverse JSON arrays in C
Apr 24 06:54:16 <oil> so temp, time in state, freq, etc all come back with one request
Apr 24 06:54:25 <rwhitby> nope
Apr 24 06:55:11 <rwhitby> temp and stats are different calls from params
Apr 24 06:55:37 <tmzt_> MiX-MaN: just use a format string and support presets
Apr 24 06:56:27 <MiX-MaN> tmzt_: heh thats pretty much then end soultion to either route we go
Apr 24 06:56:35 <MiX-MaN> trying to do a massive cleanup.. it sucks
Apr 24 06:57:25 <tmzt_> I use EasyTag on linux
Apr 24 06:57:34 <tmzt_> it's complicated but extremely powerful
Apr 24 06:57:43 <MiX-MaN> i'll note that.. i've been trying to find something
Apr 24 06:57:54 <MiX-MaN> need to get my nix back up and running..
Apr 24 07:45:12 <halfhalo_T400> psssttt
Apr 24 07:45:16 <halfhalo_T400> anyone here
Apr 24 07:45:43 <halfhalo_T400> anyone know where the ipk files are stored on the pre so I can put pandora on the dev phone?
Apr 24 07:46:10 <tmzt_> dev phone?
Apr 24 07:46:19 <halfhalo_T400> yeah
Apr 24 07:46:50 <halfhalo_T400> palm gave up pre pluses that are wifi only dev phones that do not activate nor do first use or have a profile
Apr 24 07:46:56 <halfhalo_T400> basically metadoctored
Apr 24 07:49:50 <halfhalo_T400> awwww
Apr 24 07:50:02 <halfhalo_T400> its not right on the webos internals wiki
Apr 24 07:50:17 <rwhitby> what's not right?
Apr 24 07:50:28 <halfhalo_T400> location of downloaded apps
Apr 24 07:50:48 <rwhitby> they don't persist as ipks
Apr 24 07:50:54 <rwhitby> just install preware
Apr 24 07:51:00 <halfhalo_T400> it is
Apr 24 07:51:07 <halfhalo_T400> but app cat doesn't work right
Apr 24 07:51:16 <rwhitby> so meta-doctor and add a profile
Apr 24 07:51:34 <tmzt_> vzw ESN/MEID?
Apr 24 07:52:15 <halfhalo_T400> yeah, vzw ESN but palm modded to bypass activation and first use
Apr 24 07:52:23 <halfhalo_T400> doctor proof apparently as well
Apr 24 07:53:37 <rwhitby> not doctor proof
Apr 24 07:53:49 <tmzt_> rwhitby: is the kernel situation cleaned up then are are we getting flavor of the week kernels like on android community?
Apr 24 07:54:19 <rwhitby> tmzt_: kernel situation was never in doubt from my perspective ;)
Apr 24 07:54:44 <rwhitby> tmzt_: we get to OTA install ours too - does android community support that?
Apr 24 07:55:04 <tmzt_> nah, just boot.img flashing
Apr 24 07:55:16 <rwhitby> bah, amateurs.
Apr 24 07:55:20 <halfhalo_T400> rwhitby: I could have sworn the palm people say a doctor would not mess up the bypass
Apr 24 07:55:22 <tmzt_> although update.zip works if your recovery.img is compatible
Apr 24 07:55:26 <tmzt_> hey, Palm did that right
Apr 24 07:55:34 <tmzt_> used the fat filesystem for kernel
Apr 24 07:55:51 <rwhitby> halfhalo_T400: a doctor will mess up the bypass, you need to run their tool again after, or just meta-doctor and be done with it
Apr 24 07:56:32 <rwhitby> halfhalo_T400: you're not following @webosinternals on twitter, where all this was explained?
Apr 24 07:56:42 <halfhalo_T400> heh
Apr 24 07:57:02 <halfhalo_T400> been at a movie since I dropped of swisstomcat and havent gotten far enough along to open twitter
Apr 24 07:57:27 * rwhitby bbt - out for 16h for ANZAC day
Apr 24 11:47:02 <Sumla> hi all
Apr 24 13:50:58 <jerms> superprekernel++ we in godmode now, som
Apr 24 13:51:00 <jerms> son
Apr 24 14:12:59 <swisstomcat> morning
Apr 24 15:12:21 <yokken> okay why the fuck won't govnah let me change the clock speed
Apr 24 15:12:38 <bpadalino> such language
Apr 24 15:14:40 <yokken> is it not supported yet or what
Apr 24 15:16:05 <yokken> :(
Apr 24 15:19:52 <yokken> bpadalino I would think you would know
Apr 24 15:20:00 <yokken> you always know this kinda stuff
Apr 24 15:20:04 <bpadalino> why would you think that ?
Apr 24 15:20:16 <yokken> cause you own n stuff
Apr 24 15:20:28 <bpadalino> oh no .. i am not very smart .. and i don't know much at all when it comes to these things
Apr 24 15:20:38 <yokken> lol
Apr 24 15:20:45 <yokken> okay then
Apr 24 15:20:49 <bpadalino> sorry
Apr 24 15:20:50 <bpadalino> :(
Apr 24 15:21:00 <yokken> it's cool
Apr 24 15:21:44 <bpadalino> hope you get it resolved
Apr 24 15:27:08 <PuffTheMagic> is there a way to get Pandora on a carrier-free meta-doctored pre?
Apr 24 15:36:48 <Kyusaku> no clue ipk isn't public
Apr 24 15:58:28 <jhojho> morning everyone
Apr 24 16:17:59 <jacques_pre2> howdy
Apr 24 16:18:34 <jhojho> oh wait, are you on your pre plus?
Apr 24 16:18:45 <jacques_pre2> yep :-)
Apr 24 16:18:48 <jhojho> lol
Apr 24 16:19:01 <jhojho> confession: I have never used wirc
Apr 24 16:20:23 <jacques_pre2> I like it
Apr 24 16:21:11 <jacques_pre2> so far no keyboard issues
Apr 24 16:24:15 <jhojho> say accelerated email pls!
Apr 24 16:24:38 <jhojho> is someone near rick? prod him to get on irc pls.
Apr 24 16:31:31 <jacques_pre2> palm just announced audio and video recording apis
Apr 24 16:32:37 <jhojho> bluetooth SPP!!
Apr 24 16:32:41 <jhojho> YAY!
Apr 24 16:32:42 <jacques_pre2> bluetooth
Apr 24 16:32:51 <jacques_pre2> yes!
Apr 24 16:33:00 <jhojho> I wonder if this means bluez
Apr 24 16:35:57 <nn7> I'm trying to send stuff to my phone with scp
Apr 24 16:36:03 <nn7> it works until the phone goes to sleep
Apr 24 16:36:23 <nn7> I get the "powerd: system going to sleep now" when the screen turns off and the transfer just grinds to a halt
Apr 24 16:36:26 <nn7> is there any way around that?
Apr 24 16:38:21 <jacques_pre2> nodoze
Apr 24 16:38:37 <nn7> I just found a google link talking about that
Apr 24 16:38:40 <jhojho> keep your phone plugged in
Apr 24 16:40:30 <nn7> ohh.. plugging it in keeps it awake?
Apr 24 16:40:31 <nn7> neat
Apr 24 16:40:40 <jhojho> yes
Apr 24 16:40:45 <nn7> ok thanks
Apr 24 16:40:58 <nn7> is there any programs yet that allow a remote user to play music?
Apr 24 16:41:15 <nn7> the phone plays music but is initiated remotely over ssh
Apr 24 16:41:19 <nn7> maybe like mpg123?
Apr 24 16:46:06 <jhojho> I wonder what that is next to ben under the cover
Apr 24 16:46:17 <jhojho> on the podium
Apr 24 16:49:31 <jacques_pre2> new pdk beta in a couple of weeks
Apr 24 16:53:23 <nn7> any further work on the freeTether application?
Apr 24 16:53:31 <nn7> I got it out of beta a while ago and haven't seen any updates
Apr 24 16:57:30 <jacques_pre2> I haven't heard of any recent work on it
Apr 24 16:57:57 <nn7> would be nice if they finished the wifi tethering
Apr 24 17:04:35 <beelzabub1> morning guys - when's a good time to drop by today @ the developer's conference?
Apr 24 17:05:44 <jhojho> it's all day
Apr 24 17:05:51 <jhojho> look at the agenda
Apr 24 17:05:55 <jhojho> palm store is open till noon
Apr 24 17:05:59 <jhojho> 30% off
Apr 24 17:06:33 <jacques_pre2> there is a free app in the catalog which has the schedule
Apr 24 17:08:07 <beelzabub1> i'll drop by for lunch i think
Apr 24 17:08:16 <beelzabub1> just sat down to work
Apr 24 17:08:51 <jacques_pre2> cool
Apr 24 17:19:22 <Tman_> so for PDK do you have to actually downgrade to 1.4.0? it's not letting me run the install script because my version isn't 1.4.0
Apr 24 17:22:22 <jacques_pre2> I haven't heard anything like that
Apr 24 17:23:53 <Tman_> well that's the error message I'm getting
Apr 24 17:25:28 <Tman_> could it be because I already have OpenSSH installed and running? :/
Apr 24 17:27:51 <en0x> the dev conf looks nice
Apr 24 17:30:40 <Tman_> yeah the script checks against only 1.4.0. I just modidifed it for 1.4.1.1
Apr 24 17:30:47 <Tman_> modified*
Apr 24 17:57:19 <jacques_pre2> weird - quake does not repect the mute switch
Apr 24 17:57:41 <jacques_pre2> is that a property of all sdl apps?
Apr 24 17:58:35 <beelzabub1> that is a ringer switch, not a mute switch
Apr 24 17:58:43 <jacques_pre2> aha
Apr 24 17:58:46 <beelzabub1> they should honour the volume rocker
Apr 24 17:59:05 <jacques_pre2> I get it now
Apr 24 17:59:10 <jacques_pre2> thanks
Apr 24 17:59:13 <beelzabub1> np
Apr 24 17:59:29 <beelzabub1> i had the same question way back when
Apr 24 17:59:51 <beelzabub1> still not convinced that it's not better off as a mute switch
Apr 24 18:00:40 <jacques_pre2> also, anyone know where I get the fixed terminal app? that works with 1.4.1
Apr 24 18:01:02 <jacques_pre2> the one in preware looks too old
Apr 24 18:02:47 <jacques_pre2> so quake still plays sound when volume is all the way down
Apr 24 18:03:13 <jacques_pre2> makes it hard to play stealthily
Apr 24 18:29:46 <destinal> jacques_pre2: the one in preware is not too old.  the mojo app didn't need fixed, only the plugin
Apr 24 18:30:28 <jacques_pre2> destinal: ah, thanks
Apr 24 18:31:16 <destinal> Too bad I didn't have a PDK version of terminal ready for when palm asked the other day who had them
Apr 24 18:31:54 <jacques_pre2> finally someone made a I am rich app for webos - $99
Apr 24 18:32:12 <destinal> lol,  does anyone ever buy those?
Apr 24 18:32:13 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: unless someone fixed it since, the menu's cause luna to crash when exiting them, consider yourself warned :)
Apr 24 18:32:58 <Decimate> quick question. the saved package list is saved somewhere so that when i doctor, it will remember what i had installed after the doctor. right?
Apr 24 18:33:00 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: I was fairly certain it used to respect the volume, if not the mute. Haven't poked at it lately
Apr 24 18:33:08 <jacques_pre2> dtzWill: oh, nm then :-(
Apr 24 18:33:18 <destinal> dtzWill: apparently it's not possible to set it to zero volume with the rocker
Apr 24 18:33:20 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: PS congrats on your new pre+ :D
Apr 24 18:33:31 <dtzWill> destinal: no?? x.x
Apr 24 18:33:38 <dtzWill> destinal: just goes near to zero then does some mute thing?
Apr 24 18:34:12 <Decimate> no one has an answer to my question? :/
Apr 24 18:34:14 <destinal> dtzWill:  not sure, just what jacques_pre2 said
Apr 24 18:34:45 <destinal> Decimate: I think your package list is stored in your palm profile
Apr 24 18:34:56 <Decimate> i mean the preware saved package list
Apr 24 18:34:58 <jacques_pre2> dtzWill: thanks, I have a dev device now :-D
Apr 24 18:35:20 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: :D:D excellent.
Apr 24 18:35:25 <dtzWill> phil_bw: welcome, long time no talk :)
Apr 24 18:37:19 <jacques_pre2> dtzWill: I was just trying xterm - any ideas on how to handle caps and syms?
Apr 24 18:37:36 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: they're handled already? the modifiers just aren't sticy
Apr 24 18:38:04 <dtzWill> someone was complaning before that they didn't work but I didn't get a chance to follow it up. so if they don't work for you either lemme know and we'll get to the bottom of this :)
Apr 24 18:38:24 <jacques_pre2> dtzWill: ooh, I hold down the modifier? (i thought I tried that)
Apr 24 18:38:41 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: and gesture is 'control' so 'getsure-l' is clear, etc. caveat is that gesture+{x,c,v} is reserved by the device so I need to find a better system :( since control+c is kinda important heh.
Apr 24 18:38:44 <jacques_pre2> will try again now
Apr 24 18:38:55 <dtzWill> luckily gesture+C (gesture+shift+c) works, heh
Apr 24 18:39:09 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: kk, lemme know if that's not the case.
Apr 24 18:40:23 <jacques_pre2> dtzWill: nm, holding modifier works fine
Apr 24 18:40:52 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: good to hear. I actually think xkb has support for sticky modifiers I just need to track that down.
Apr 24 18:41:26 <jacques_pre2> dtzWill: what's pipe again?
Apr 24 18:42:25 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: shift+.
Apr 24 18:42:40 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: fwiw http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:X#Keyboard_Support but I know you're on your device so no worries asking :)
Apr 24 18:43:22 <jacques_pre2> dtzWill: yeah I knew there is a wiki page :-)
Apr 24 18:44:39 <jacques_pre2> dtzWill: what about tab?
Apr 24 18:45:01 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: there is no tab :(. although control+i works :)
Apr 24 18:45:50 <jacques_pre2> ctrl-i is like tab? not familiar with it
Apr 24 18:46:54 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: yeppers, try it. :)
Apr 24 18:47:19 <jacques_pre2> 'k
Apr 24 18:47:47 <jacques_pre2> sweet
Apr 24 18:48:30 <jacques_pre2> now I need to scroll :-D
Apr 24 18:50:12 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: heh well it's X--so you can probably change the way xterm is launched to include a scrollbar or something.
Apr 24 18:51:08 <jacques_pre2> I want a pg-up and pg-dwn keys :-P
Apr 24 18:51:37 <Tman_> PDK + alsa working...
Apr 24 18:52:02 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: not unreasonable. my semester has gotten crazy busy--over the summer I should have some time. anyway fixing/adding/improving keyboard support is not a problem, you don't even need to rebuild it's just playing with the xkb files...
Apr 24 18:52:26 <Tman_> interestingly the same SDL update bug in the WIDK is also in the PDK. Looks like I need to use OpenGL.
Apr 24 18:52:29 <jacques_pre2> mmm, xkb
Apr 24 18:52:49 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: so the only real roadblock is someone throwing an hour at it, and the creation of a resaonable layout (what keys/combos should be page up to make it make sense/usable/etc)
Apr 24 18:53:16 <dtzWill> Tman_: oh sweet, you can deal with alsa directly and cut pulse outta the deal?
Apr 24 18:53:21 <jacques_pre2> Tman_: did you ask dtzWill about your sdl update issue? he fixed something similar in xsdl
Apr 24 18:53:39 <dtzWill> Tman_: was there a particular trick to make alsa work?
Apr 24 18:55:15 <Tman_> dtzWill: well I never even tried pulse.. but anyway, it was relatively simple, I copied over alsa include files from my linux computer
Apr 24 18:55:59 <Tman_> dtzWill: and copied over a libasound.so that I had produced with WIDK before.. that's just to get it to build though, the WIDK-produced .so won't be included with the app
Apr 24 18:56:10 <dtzWill> Tman_: well if you use the SDL audio it'll use pulse as the backend by default--and pulse goodness ends up eating 15-30% of the cpu. while I'm no expert on the related sound stacks, I don't think alsa will behave the same (if for no other reason that less layers of indirection, etc)
Apr 24 18:56:25 <Tman_> jacques_pre2: will ask :)
Apr 24 18:56:26 <dtzWill> Tman_: yep, sounds good. so it mostly worked the way you'd expect. good to know
Apr 24 18:57:14 <Tman_> dtzWill: yeah. I'm using it for mic input here.. dunno if palm will like that but I know they are working on a way, it's "just not ready yet"
Apr 24 18:57:23 <Tman_> so I made my own :p
Apr 24 18:58:14 <Tman_> actually I'll just use OpenGL for its antialiasing
Apr 24 18:58:40 <jacques_pre2> had to change rooms - back now
Apr 24 18:59:11 <dtzWill> Tman_: gl blits faster too, as much sense as that doesn't make to me
Apr 24 18:59:48 <Tman_> lol
Apr 24 18:59:48 <dtzWill> Tman_: taking normal sdl apps and changing it to blit with gles has a marked improvement in the apps I've played with.
Apr 24 18:59:56 <Tman_> cool.
Apr 24 18:59:57 <bpadalino> set the pointer to null!
Apr 24 19:00:42 <jacques_pre2> yeah, I'm still surprised at the faster gl blits
Apr 24 19:01:15 <beelzabub1> can you clarify?
Apr 24 19:01:41 <beelzabub1> changing to gles from what?
Apr 24 19:02:14 <jacques_pre2> hmm, I wish webos didn't broadcast system messages for sleep/wake - it spammed my xterm
Apr 24 19:02:15 <dtzWill> beelzabub1: drawing to an SDL surface and SDL_UpdateRect or w/e the SDL update command is
Apr 24 19:02:39 <jacques_pre2> swsurface vs opengles surface
Apr 24 19:02:53 <beelzabub1> ok - wouldn't you expect it to be a lot faster?
Apr 24 19:02:57 <dtzWill> jacques_pre2: yeppers, swsurface vs a texture
Apr 24 19:03:00 <beelzabub1> i doubt the SW path is neon optimized
Apr 24 19:03:15 <beelzabub1> & on pixi there's no neon anyways
Apr 24 19:03:15 <Tman_> jacques_pre2: there's a patch for that
Apr 24 19:03:20 <jacques_pre2> iiiinteresting
Apr 24 19:03:21 <dtzWill> beelzabub1: ah, I assumed they'd try to make that fast too
Apr 24 19:03:29 <dtzWill> beelzabub1: pixi support does make that make a lot of sense.
Apr 24 19:04:00 <jacques_pre2> Tman_: thanks - I wondered what that patch did
Apr 24 19:04:27 <jacques_pre2> we still can't build sdl can we?
Apr 24 19:07:45 <beelzabub1> are you guys eating at the palm calf?
Apr 24 19:08:16 <jhojho> yes
Apr 24 19:08:25 <jhojho> jacques_pre2:  are you here?
Apr 24 19:08:37 <beelzabub1> you guys are breaking at 12:30 right?
Apr 24 19:08:48 <jacques_pre2> jhojho: yep!
Apr 24 19:09:16 <jhojho> just talked to kevin hague and he wants our help in tracking down a problem
Apr 24 19:09:17 <jacques_pre2> beelzabub1: yes
Apr 24 19:09:19 <beelzabub1> ok - i'll come over at 12:30.  i'm wearing a pale-blue shirt with a cookie & milk carton on it
Apr 24 19:09:26 <bpadalino> who is kevin hague ?
Apr 24 19:09:29 <beelzabub1> come over & say hi cause I don't know what anyone looks like
Apr 24 19:09:42 <jhojho> dev relations engineer
Apr 24 19:09:44 <bpadalino> oh, i wonder if geist is there or if he is drinking coffee elsewhere
Apr 24 19:09:45 <jacques_pre2> beelzabub1: cool
Apr 24 19:09:56 <bpadalino> or chrisa for that matter
Apr 24 19:10:24 <jacques_pre2> would be nice to meet geist too
Apr 24 19:10:49 <beelzabub1> i'm not sure if he's on campus - i know he's working
Apr 24 19:11:08 <jacques_pre2> jhojho: where are you now?
Apr 24 19:11:11 <jhojho> would be really nice to meet geist
Apr 24 19:11:24 <jhojho> jacques_pre2: look behind you. in one of the booths
Apr 24 19:16:23 <beelzabub1> man - this is super annoying.  meld's been broken for the longest time on my 9.10 box & I can't figure out why.  keeps complaining that it can't find the right glib version
Apr 24 19:21:21 <beelzabub1> apparently i have libgtk 2.18.3
Apr 24 19:24:59 <halfhalo> hola
Apr 24 19:25:23 <halfhalo> rwhitby: I hate you
Apr 24 19:25:33 <halfhalo> you made meta doctor to easy to use
Apr 24 19:27:05 <Decimate> :O its easy to use now?
Apr 24 19:30:54 <beelzabub1> alrighty - heading over for lunch
Apr 24 19:30:56 <beelzabub1> see you guys there
Apr 24 19:35:30 <Decimate> rwhitby: ping
Apr 24 19:41:20 <halfhalo-pre> god I hate 1.4.0
Apr 24 19:44:57 <destinal> halfhalo-pre: why?
Apr 24 19:52:16 <jacques_pre2> bpadalino: are you stopping by?
Apr 24 19:56:58 <halfhalo-pre> destinal: because I keep getting luna restarts on it compared to non on my sprint pre
Apr 24 20:03:13 <jacques_pre2> my sprint pre luna restarted today, but plus hasn't yet
Apr 24 20:26:01 <zsoc_wirc> yo
Apr 24 20:27:30 <halfhalo-pre> pie
Apr 24 20:28:42 <zsoc_wirc> yopie
Apr 24 20:34:58 <halfhalo-pre> heh
Apr 24 20:35:20 <halfhalo-pre> marketing presentation now
Apr 24 20:35:55 <jacques_pre2> I'm at the sdl / pdk talk
Apr 24 20:36:42 <zsoc_wirc> jacques_pre2: new pdk environment info?
Apr 24 20:36:59 <zsoc_wirc> Rick_work: heyoo
Apr 24 20:37:15 <Rick_work> hi all
Apr 24 20:37:47 <halfhalo-pre> heh
Apr 24 20:37:54 <halfhalo-pre> I do like metadoctor
Apr 24 20:37:56 <jacques_pre2> zsoc_wirc: so far it's about current pdk, but keynote talked about new pdk beta coming out in two weeks
Apr 24 20:38:09 <jacques_pre2> howdy Rick_work
Apr 24 20:38:16 <zsoc_wirc> gotcha
Apr 24 20:39:12 <Rick_work> i've been pushing since the keynote trying to get a handle on what "Bluetooth spp" means for us.  No one is talking.
Apr 24 20:39:17 <jacques_pre2> the new pdk will include support for hybrid apps in the app catalog
Apr 24 20:39:34 <Rick_work>  I was told that they pretty much had to fight for every line on every slide in the keynote.
Apr 24 20:39:51 <jacques_pre2> zsoc_wirc: they also announced mic and camera apis are coming
Apr 24 20:40:00 <Rick_work> nodnod
Apr 24 20:40:04 <jacques_pre2> Rick_work: heh
Apr 24 20:41:48 <jacques_pre2> Rick_work: they mentioned bt peripherals - maybe "something peripheral profile"
Apr 24 20:42:23 <Rick_work> spp is serial port profile.
Apr 24 20:42:41 <jacques_pre2> ah
Apr 24 20:42:46 <Rick_work> The question for me is, are they going to include a keyboard link.
Apr 24 20:42:56 <beelzabub1> yup - not sure how discovery works, SPP is essentially a direct transport like TCP
Apr 24 20:43:03 <jacques_pre2> yeah, I wonder
Apr 24 20:43:04 <beelzabub1> write to one end, read from the other
Apr 24 20:44:17 <jacques_pre2> guy giving sdl talk just hinted HWSURFACE may work someday
Apr 24 20:50:53 <jacques_pre2> down to 29% batt
Apr 24 20:51:43 <halfhalo-pre> you have two pres man!  use em
Apr 24 20:51:57 <Rick_work> jacques_pre2  I have a spare battery.
Apr 24 20:52:12 <beelzabub1> i would imagine there's touchstones around
Apr 24 20:52:26 <halfhalo-pre> heh, yeah
Apr 24 20:52:31 <beelzabub1> it would be a shame if we didn't set up a table with a bunch of them
Apr 24 20:53:03 <jacques_pre2> halfhalo-pre: has a point, my sprint pre is at 68%
Apr 24 20:53:14 * halfhalo-pre doesn't see such a table
Apr 24 20:53:43 <halfhalo-pre> heh, sprint is dead but the plus is doing fine
Apr 24 20:53:49 <jacques_pre2> Rick_work: thenks for the offer. it's not critical though :-)
Apr 24 20:54:08 <beelzabub1> ask one of the organizers - maybe they can set one up
Apr 24 20:55:05 <zsoc_wirc> jacques_pre2: yes apis are exciting
Apr 24 20:57:11 <jacques_pre2> guy giving sdl talk just hinted a webos devices with faster cpus
Apr 24 20:57:47 <halfhalo-pre> orly
Apr 24 21:00:02 <jacques_pre2> he was talking about event loops, timers, and frame rate insdl
Apr 24 21:01:11 <jacques> charging plus from laptop now
Apr 24 21:40:20 <Guest69634> hey guys. i would like to ask you a question. :p ....is it possible to put a linux distri like ubuntu on the palm pre?
Apr 24 21:48:40 <beelzabub1> well that was a weird way to ask a question
Apr 24 21:48:49 <Rick_work> he left.
Apr 24 21:48:54 <Rick_work> that happens a lot.
Apr 24 21:49:03 <beelzabub1> right - after 3 minutes
Apr 24 21:49:07 <Rick_work> that happens a lot
Apr 24 21:49:17 <oil> yeah
Apr 24 21:49:51 <Rick_work> oil, pm me your email please....
Apr 24 21:50:35 * oil goes to get breakfast
Apr 24 21:51:47 <Rick_work> was Rod expecting to be out today due to Anzac day festivitites???
Apr 24 21:52:16 <jacques> Rick_work, yes
Apr 24 21:52:51 <jacques> * rwhitby bbt - out for 16h for ANZAC day
Apr 24 21:53:19 <jacques> 00:57:12 local time
Apr 24 21:58:16 * jacques needs a nap.
Apr 24 21:58:30 * beelzabub1 as well
Apr 24 22:01:15 * sbromwich got up from a 10 hour nap. Does that qualify as a nap?
Apr 24 22:10:47 <RamsesFSFE> LOL
Apr 24 22:13:46 <oil> is it bad that i didn't know what Anzac was before rwhitby linked me?
Apr 24 22:14:33 <zsoc|away> i didn't know what it was before i searched for it
Apr 24 22:16:48 <oil> ok
Apr 24 22:17:51 <firestrider> Hey background services are done in java on webos right now?
Apr 24 22:18:14 <zsoc|away> firestrider: only a couple of them, most are C now, and more java ones are moving over to C
Apr 24 22:18:55 <firestrider> is this an official palm API or do only homebrew developers use it?
Apr 24 22:19:03 <zsoc|away> Define "this"?
Apr 24 22:19:38 <firestrider> I was just looking at the post on precentral and it says they are moving from java to javascript for background services
Apr 24 22:19:58 <zsoc|away> Can you link to that post?... because that statement makes no sense
Apr 24 22:20:15 <firestrider> "this" meaning the Java APIs wherever those are
Apr 24 22:20:29 <zsoc|away> You can't write a 'service' in javascript
Apr 24 22:20:29 <firestrider> http://www.precentral.net/webos-get-mic-camera-api-faster-services-plenty-more-fall
Apr 24 22:20:39 <beelzabub1> yup
Apr 24 22:20:44 <beelzabub1> it's going to be awesome
Apr 24 22:21:02 <zsoc|away> that doesn't even make sense
Apr 24 22:21:06 <beelzabub1> it will
Apr 24 22:21:09 <zsoc|away> javascript is way too abstracted
Apr 24 22:21:15 <zsoc|away> beelzabub1: so it's a javascript wrapper for various libs?
Apr 24 22:21:16 <beelzabub1> they actually will start up faster than native services :)
Apr 24 22:21:39 <halfhalo> yes
Apr 24 22:21:58 <zsoc|away> so then it's not a javascript service :P
Apr 24 22:22:07 <beelzabub1> it is a javascript service
Apr 24 22:22:11 <beelzabub1> in every sense of the word
Apr 24 22:22:27 <zsoc|away> It's a javascript service with webGL is a javascript language?
Apr 24 22:22:47 <zsoc|away> s/with/like/
Apr 24 22:22:47 <infobot> zsoc|away meant: It's a javascript service like webGL is a javascript language?
Apr 24 22:22:47 <beelzabub1> javascript service won't have webgl obviously because that's HTML stuff
Apr 24 22:22:53 <beelzabub1> no
Apr 24 22:23:00 <beelzabub1> think of it like mojo for services
Apr 24 22:23:22 <zsoc> serviceRequests /are/ mojo for services
Apr 24 22:23:30 <beelzabub1> no - this is the other side
Apr 24 22:23:48 <beelzabub1> it'll have a different sandbox
Apr 24 22:23:51 <beelzabub1> file i/o, etc
Apr 24 22:23:55 <halfhalo> hehe
Apr 24 22:24:00 * zsoc blinks
Apr 24 22:24:05 <halfhalo> waiting for that session
Apr 24 22:24:27 <zsoc> beelzabub1: Then I apologize, if what you say is accurate, then I just don't understand how it works :)
Apr 24 22:24:38 <beelzabub1> ok - imagine you have your native service now
Apr 24 22:24:43 <beelzabub1> it does something
Apr 24 22:24:43 <zsoc> native meaning C?
Apr 24 22:24:45 <beelzabub1> yup
Apr 24 22:24:47 <zsoc> ok
Apr 24 22:24:57 <beelzabub1> now with this it's the same thing just you'll write it in javascript
Apr 24 22:25:09 <zsoc> How will I interact with libraries in javascript?
Apr 24 22:25:20 <zsoc> Individual API wrappers?
Apr 24 22:25:25 <beelzabub1> something like that
Apr 24 22:25:29 <zsoc> for each library?
Apr 24 22:25:38 <beelzabub1> i can't comment on any specifics since I'm not disclosed to talk to you guys about that
Apr 24 22:25:41 <zsoc> If you create a gstreamer javascript wrapper, you /have to opensource it/, that is so crazy it's almost awesome.
Apr 24 22:25:47 <zsoc> beelzabub1: I understand :) thank you
Apr 24 22:25:48 <beelzabub1> this is unreleased stuff, so I don't know what the message is
Apr 24 22:26:02 <beelzabub1> once this starts shipping i'll be able to comment more on it
Apr 24 22:26:06 <azakus> node.js is a very light wrapper on v8 stuff
Apr 24 22:26:31 <zsoc> beelzabub1: It makes sense. It suddenly clicked in my head. Javascript /is/ 'native' to webOS.
Apr 24 22:26:34 <beelzabub1> just the really cool thing is that services are each their own process & start up faster than a C service
Apr 24 22:27:41 <beelzabub1> and I'm excited because I implemented the initial version that had the fast startup
Apr 24 22:27:42 <halfhalo> hmmm.... I wonder if apps can use plugins that ship with other apps....
Apr 24 22:27:59 <beelzabub1> what do you mean by plugins
Apr 24 22:28:06 <zsoc> beelzabub1: it really does sound ridiculously cool
Apr 24 22:28:13 <halfhalo> for hybrid apps
Apr 24 22:28:25 <beelzabub1> yup - our architect guys are really really clever
Apr 24 22:28:29 <beelzabub1> they design elegant stuff
Apr 24 22:28:37 <halfhalo> I wasn't at that event
Apr 24 22:29:11 <beelzabub1> hmmm - i don't know about that
Apr 24 22:30:38 <halfhalo> you know, at first I thougt it was a good idea but now not so sure
Apr 24 22:30:55 <beelzabub1> yeah, there's all sorts of security implications
Apr 24 22:31:04 <beelzabub1> the only benefit would be some disk savings
Apr 24 22:31:20 <beelzabub1> or i guess if you can't get permission to distribute that plugin yourself
Apr 24 22:31:38 <halfhalo> well besides security, versioning
Apr 24 22:31:44 <beelzabub1> yup
Apr 24 22:32:10 <beelzabub1> for those kinds of things I'd prefer to see some kind of service architecture as the comm layer
Apr 24 22:32:25 <sbromwich> just like relying on, say, zlib for your app under linux?
Apr 24 22:32:47 <beelzabub1> he was referring to plugins
Apr 24 22:33:08 <beelzabub1> i'm assuming he meant PDK plugins for your front-end applications
Apr 24 22:33:15 <sbromwich> yeah, but the interdependencies... is it a lib like idea for plugins to reuse each other?
Apr 24 22:33:35 <beelzabub1> i don't think so
Apr 24 22:33:36 <halfhalo> yeah
Apr 24 22:33:40 <beelzabub1> really?
Apr 24 22:33:42 <beelzabub1> hmm
Apr 24 22:33:47 <halfhalo> wait
Apr 24 22:33:48 <beelzabub1> i should brush up more on that then
Apr 24 22:33:55 <sbromwich> just trying to understand it :-)
Apr 24 22:33:55 <halfhalo> I mean yeah earlies
Apr 24 22:34:14 <beelzabub1> i only hear about PDK on the periphery
Apr 24 22:34:17 <halfhalo> time for new presentation
Apr 24 22:34:36 <sbromwich> liveblog ftw
Apr 24 22:34:43 <beelzabub1> i'll have to study it a bit more once it starts to gain some more ground
Apr 24 22:34:44 <halfhalo> heh
Apr 24 22:34:47 <beelzabub1> where's the liveblog?
Apr 24 22:35:00 <sbromwich> I think that woud be halfhalo ;-)
Apr 24 22:35:04 <beelzabub1> lol
Apr 24 22:35:14 <halfhalo> orly?
Apr 24 22:35:28 <halfhalo> that's assume one of the presis not dying
Apr 24 22:35:36 <sbromwich> you know you want to
Apr 24 22:35:38 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 24 22:38:38 <halfhalo-pre> fffffff
Apr 24 22:38:45 <halfhalo-pre> luna restart
Apr 24 22:39:06 <halfhalo-pre> stupid 1.4.0.... wheres my sprint
Apr 24 22:39:47 <beelzabub1> hey sbromwich:  can you try adding the patch on http://lwn.net/Articles/383931/ to your kernel?
Apr 24 22:39:51 <beelzabub1> it would be interesting to see the impact
Apr 24 22:40:00 <halfhalo-pre> dammit... it's dead
Apr 24 22:40:26 <beelzabub1> c'mon - we're all nerds here halfhalo-pre.  you've got to add the Jim at the end of that
Apr 24 22:40:27 <halfhalo-pre> why did I get rid of the 1.4.1 vzw doctor I had....
Apr 24 22:40:37 <halfhalo-pre> lol
Apr 24 22:40:41 <sbromwich> sure, gonna be a while till I can try it though
Apr 24 22:40:51 <sbromwich> thanks for the pointer :-)
Apr 24 22:41:12 <halfhalo-pre> I blame beelzabub1 for everything
Apr 24 22:41:18 <beelzabub1> fair enough
Apr 24 22:41:48 <halfhalo-pre> heh
Apr 24 22:41:54 * beelzabub1 commits code to wipe phone if login to webos-internals w/ halfhalo as nick is attempted
Apr 24 22:42:17 <halfhalo-pre> it's ok, it's only the dev plus one
Apr 24 22:42:35 * beelzabub1 foiled again
Apr 24 22:42:38 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 24 22:43:04 <halfhalo-pre> so, apparently there were hints of a faster device on one of the presentations
Apr 24 22:43:15 <halfhalo-pre> better be out by june dammit
Apr 24 22:43:23 <halfhalo-pre> I want my upgrade
Apr 24 22:44:51 <halfhalo-pre> or mhs on sprint.  I would be happy then.  hit 300KB/s last night on it
Apr 24 22:45:11 <beelzabub1> did they give a name to the javascript background services?
Apr 24 22:45:42 * sbromwich still has 10.5 months until new phone eligibility
Apr 24 22:45:55 <halfhalo-pre> not yet, lmaybe in the js pres
Apr 24 22:46:08 <beelzabub1> ok - let me know
Apr 24 22:46:15 <halfhalo-pre> kk
Apr 24 22:46:26 <zsoc> beelzabub1: in theory could homebrew take advantage and make their own javascript background services? Or is it pretty closed up?
Apr 24 22:46:31 <halfhalo-pre> I won't not let me know
Apr 24 22:47:59 * halfhalo-pre wants to put the pre plus on sprint since his pres earpiece is breaking
Apr 24 22:48:38 <halfhalo-pre> beelzabub1:  get on that
Apr 24 22:49:39 <beelzabub1> zsoc: what do you mean closed up?
Apr 24 22:51:16 <halfhalo-pre> why is this plus not on sprint yet... it's almost likeits an unreasonable demand
Apr 24 22:51:54 <zsoc> beelzabub1: er, i'm not really sure, on second thought. I guess I'll be interested to see them :)
Apr 24 22:52:13 <beelzabub1> this'll be open to third parties
Apr 24 22:52:15 <sbromwich> bureaucrats would be my guess, halfhalo-pre
Apr 24 22:52:31 <halfhalo-pre> psh
Apr 24 22:52:50 * sbromwich still has the baaaaad memories from the days at USR
Apr 24 22:52:57 <sbromwich> *shudder*aol*shudder*
Apr 24 22:53:00 <halfhalo-pre> not wanting to deal with a speakerphone only pre...
Apr 24 22:53:04 <beelzabub1> can you imagine though the horrible world we'd live in without bureaucracy?  no dilbert for instance.  just a bleak & terrible word I fear
Apr 24 22:53:27 <beelzabub1> sbromwich: don't know how it was at USR, but I don't think it's that bad
Apr 24 22:53:31 <sbromwich> scott adams would be out of a job for sure
Apr 24 22:53:34 <beelzabub1> i really like the environment
Apr 24 22:53:49 <sbromwich> I had to test *everything* that went out the door. including aol.
Apr 24 22:54:05 <sbromwich> and it went back and for fixing their brokennes for... a long time.
Apr 24 22:54:18 <sbromwich> s/for/forth/
Apr 24 22:54:19 <infobot> sbromwich meant: and it went back and forth fixing their brokennes for... a long time.
Apr 24 22:54:34 <beelzabub1> wow - the jets are going crazy at moffett
Apr 24 22:54:41 <zsoc> I don't even know what "binary javascript types" means.
Apr 24 22:54:50 <beelzabub1> where do you see that?
Apr 24 22:54:53 <sbromwich> serialised?
Apr 24 22:55:08 * halfhalo-pre is pissed off at how he can't replace his dying pre with this shiny pre plus
Apr 24 22:55:19 <zsoc> beelzabub1: on a picture of Ben pointing at a projector screen
Apr 24 22:55:37 <beelzabub1> hmm - interesting
Apr 24 22:55:47 <beelzabub1> dunno
Apr 24 22:55:50 <halfhalo-pre> yeah
Apr 24 22:55:59 <zsoc> new app cat is exciting
Apr 24 22:56:06 <beelzabub1> i have the source for that framework checked out here but I'm too lazy to go look through it
Apr 24 22:56:30 * halfhalo-pre wants it
Apr 24 22:56:45 * zsoc hax0rs beelz's box
Apr 24 22:57:04 * halfhalo-pre wants an intership at palm badly
Apr 24 22:57:05 * beelzabub1 pulls cable.  that'll show you
Apr 24 22:57:12 <beelzabub1> :)
Apr 24 22:57:15 <zsoc> hehe
Apr 24 22:57:55 <beelzabub1> if the code on my computer got out, i'd be in serious shit
Apr 24 22:58:27 * halfhalo-pre grabs his lockpicks and crowbar from his backpack
Apr 24 22:58:28 <zsoc> of course :/ sry if my jest was inappropriate.
Apr 24 22:58:36 <beelzabub1> naw :)
Apr 24 22:58:48 <beelzabub1> i just wanted to say that I'm working on a lot of cool unreleased shit :)
Apr 24 22:59:03 <zsoc> hahaha
Apr 24 22:59:07 <zsoc> i am the jealous :(
Apr 24 22:59:36 <beelzabub1> see, the thing is i have no patience to see projects through to the end
Apr 24 22:59:59 <beelzabub1> i like coming in in the middle making it fast & awesome & then leaving everyone else with the grunt work & polish
Apr 24 23:00:09 <beelzabub1> :)
Apr 24 23:00:10 <zsoc> beelzabub1: you sound like rod
Apr 24 23:00:15 <beelzabub1> :)
Apr 24 23:00:53 <beelzabub1> it's actually not a good trait since the grunt work & polish is where it makes an OK product awesome
Apr 24 23:00:59 <zsoc> i agree
Apr 24 23:01:13 * sbromwich discovered on arriving in .ca that the courier source code was on one of the disks that came with him. oops.
Apr 24 23:01:27 <beelzabub1> lol
Apr 24 23:01:49 <beelzabub1> it seems like the TSA has become a little bit more lax these days w.r.t to laptop searches, no?
Apr 24 23:02:19 <beelzabub1> i bet that every single IT & business company in the world sent them a "WTF are you guys morons?" letter
Apr 24 23:03:04 <sbromwich> haven't been to the US in years
Apr 24 23:03:11 <halfhalo-pre> annnddddd luna crash
Apr 24 23:03:14 <halfhalo-pre> AGAIN
Apr 24 23:03:22 <zsoc> halfhalo-pre: clearly it's you.
Apr 24 23:03:40 <halfhalo-pre> oh, it's happening to my friend as well
Apr 24 23:03:41 <beelzabub1> halfhalo-pre - stop touching your phone inappropriately.  it's suffering from PTSD
Apr 24 23:03:43 <sbromwich> halfhalo-pre: overclocking?
Apr 24 23:04:02 <halfhalo-pre> no to both of those
Apr 24 23:04:05 <zsoc> caj's app? lol
Apr 24 23:04:25 <halfhalo-pre> it literally has wirc and nothing else
Apr 24 23:04:41 <zsoc> halfhalo-pre: wirc mem leaks pretty bad
Apr 24 23:05:13 <halfhalo-pre> it's a plus... and it wasn't open last time
Apr 24 23:05:30 <zsoc> OH
Apr 24 23:05:30 <halfhalo-pre> beelzabub1: you going to the mixer this?
Apr 24 23:05:37 <beelzabub1> when is it?
Apr 24 23:05:41 <zsoc> halfhalo-pre: your problem is the way 1.4 handles json :P
Apr 24 23:05:43 <beelzabub1> i have a party in SF i'm going to tonight
Apr 24 23:05:54 <beelzabub1> & i still have more more thing i want to get done @ work before i hit the gym
Apr 24 23:06:16 <halfhalo-pre> 5:30 to 8:30 at tied something reasturaunt
Apr 24 23:06:38 <beelzabub1> hmm - probably not
Apr 24 23:06:44 <beelzabub1> send me the name just in case anyways
Apr 24 23:07:29 <halfhalo-pre> Tied House
Apr 24 23:08:02 <halfhalo-pre> free food ftw
Apr 24 23:08:37 * beelzabub1 wonders if they'll give me free food too
Apr 24 23:09:13 <halfhalo-pre> ok that pisses me off.  if I open a pdf attatchment and leave it open it freezes
Apr 24 23:11:21 <zsoc> verizon needs 1.4.1.1, 1.4.0 is making webos look bad
Apr 24 23:11:45 * halfhalo-pre also wants a pixi plus to play with
Apr 24 23:11:53 <halfhalo-pre> zsoc: oh I know it
Apr 24 23:13:01 <halfhalo-pre> hehe
Apr 24 23:13:34 <halfhalo-pre> SOMEONE is on p|c right now
Apr 24 23:14:01 <halfhalo-pre> and is reading cmments
Apr 24 23:14:39 <beelzabub1> i've just figured out how you can know when something is well engineered
Apr 24 23:15:00 <halfhalo-pre> when it just works?
Apr 24 23:15:37 <beelzabub1> when you can integrate a new component that was developed separately & it just works
Apr 24 23:15:51 <halfhalo-pre> heh
Apr 24 23:15:53 <beelzabub1> without having to add or refactor the original code
Apr 24 23:16:04 <beelzabub1> so it looks like i'm done today far earlier than expected
Apr 24 23:16:06 <beelzabub1> this is exciting
Apr 24 23:16:13 <zsoc> beelzabub1: you mean how a lot of linux apps just work on webos? :D
Apr 24 23:16:40 <beelzabub1> i wish i could say what in particular, but no, that is not what i mean
Apr 24 23:16:52 <halfhalo-pre> lol
Apr 24 23:17:24 <sbromwich> LunaSysMgrX11
Apr 24 23:17:35 <halfhalo-pre> hah
Apr 24 23:18:11 <halfhalo-pre> grrr
Apr 24 23:18:23 <halfhalo-pre> mms looks so cool
Apr 24 23:18:33 <halfhalo-pre> why is that not out
Apr 24 23:19:16 <sbromwich> mms in what context?
Apr 24 23:19:32 <halfhalo-pre> mojo messaging service
Apr 24 23:20:31 <sbromwich> ahhh
Apr 24 23:22:04 * halfhalo-pre wants to use it for his chat app
Apr 24 23:22:50 <halfhalo-pre> oh, and this is strange
Apr 24 23:23:02 <halfhalo-pre> gps on the plus is working perfectly
Apr 24 23:26:46 * halfhalo-pre shall write a wardriving script for kicks
Apr 24 23:27:26 <sbromwich> halfhalo-pre: want mine based on iwconfig?
Apr 24 23:27:31 <sbromwich> iwlist, rather
Apr 24 23:27:50 <halfhalo-pre> naw, that takes the fun out of it
Apr 24 23:27:53 <halfhalo-pre> brb
Apr 24 23:28:02 <sbromwich> heh
Apr 24 23:28:16 <sbromwich> ok, I can tell you iwlist eth0 scan works fine for warbiking
Apr 24 23:28:57 <halfhalo-pre> beelzabub1: the js one is starting soon
Apr 24 23:29:17 <beelzabub1> ok - i'm actually done for the day
Apr 24 23:29:20 <sbromwich> http://www.fop.ns.ca/warwalk.png
Apr 24 23:29:26 <sbromwich> enjoy beelzabub1 :-)
Apr 24 23:30:07 <beelzabub1> i can't wait for IRC to get into the regular app store
Apr 24 23:30:10 <beelzabub1> that'll be sweeeet
Apr 24 23:30:34 <halfhalo-pre> lol
Apr 24 23:30:41 <halfhalo-pre> we have a booth
Apr 24 23:30:52 <beelzabub1> i'm out
Apr 24 23:30:57 <sbromwich> ok, battery on laptop is dying... laters :-)
Apr 24 23:30:57 <beelzabub1> see ya tomorrow
Apr 24 23:31:10 <beelzabub1> post to pre central anything that's interesting
Apr 24 23:31:15 <halfhalo-pre> kk
Apr 24 23:45:14 <halfhalo-pre> well there ya go
Apr 24 23:45:23 <halfhalo-pre> trident
Apr 24 23:45:35 <halfhalo-pre> but beelzabub1 already knows that
Apr 24 23:49:29 <halfhalo-pre> ohohoh
Apr 24 23:49:44 <halfhalo-pre> bluetooth spp is going to be service
Apr 25 00:01:22 <Cerealklr> heya
Apr 25 00:03:23 <rwhitby> morning
Apr 25 00:04:18 <rwhitby> so, what's news from Palm Dev Day ?
Apr 25 00:04:36 <zsoc> rwhitby: apparently it's april fools
Apr 25 00:04:59 <zsoc> rwhitby: something about java services being replace with java/script/ services
Apr 25 00:06:33 <rwhitby> javascript? services
Apr 25 00:06:40 <zsoc> rwhitby: you heard me
Apr 25 00:06:53 <zsoc> rwhitby: beelzabub claims they are /lightning/ fast to start, faster than native.
Apr 25 00:07:37 <halfhalo-pre> yeah
Apr 25 00:08:19 <halfhalo-pre> an early copy is on the phones now
Apr 25 00:08:38 <rwhitby> um, how do *javascript* services access things that javascript can't access ?
Apr 25 00:08:59 <halfhalo-pre> oh crap
Apr 25 00:09:00 <oil> magics?
Apr 25 00:09:20 <halfhalo-pre> I only have wifi
Apr 25 00:09:28 <rwhitby> I mean either you have a security layer of binary services that expose safe things to javascript, or you allow  javascript to do anything and break your security
Apr 25 00:10:08 <rwhitby> where did this report come from, and who were they speaking to ?  (i.e. where they speaking to mojo developers, or linux folks)
Apr 25 00:10:14 <halfhalo-pre> mojo
Apr 25 00:10:20 <sbromwich> rwhitby: network pixies
Apr 25 00:10:52 <halfhalo-pre> hell, the fb app is using a js service for pic uploads
Apr 25 00:11:00 <halfhalo-pre> and they run headless
Apr 25 00:11:11 <rwhitby> well, excuse me if I remain skeptical about *javascript* services (as opposed to javascript bindings for native C services)
Apr 25 00:11:25 * sbromwich pines for rwhitby's lost innocence
Apr 25 00:12:03 <rwhitby> unless they mean javascript background tasks, which present a service interface to other mojo apps, but themselves have a C binary underlying implementation
Apr 25 00:12:13 <zsoc> rwhitby: read up in the log, i showed similar animosity and beelzabub ripped me a new one ;)
Apr 25 00:12:38 <zsoc> maybe i should have used the word binding instead of wrapper
Apr 25 00:12:43 <sbromwich> rwhitby: that's what I thought
Apr 25 00:12:57 <sbromwich> rwhitby: but I've drunk too much for my opinion to count for beans anyway
Apr 25 00:13:54 <halfhalo-pre> I think that it will not be fully usable until low level network stuff is setup as well
Apr 25 00:14:06 <halfhalo-pre> along with file io
Apr 25 00:15:10 <zsoc> rwhitby: and they aren't opensourcing the fileindexer but claim a 'media indexer' access for 3rd party media apps
Apr 25 00:16:20 <sbromwich> halfhalo-pre: have they said anything about opening up any of their own stuff such as, to pick a completely random example, powerd?
Apr 25 00:19:38 <halfhalo-pre> no
Apr 25 00:19:43 <sbromwich> darn
Apr 25 00:19:45 <halfhalo-pre> in other news
Apr 25 00:20:06 <sbromwich> could I prevail on you to drop heavy hints on that one? My naive perl script widdles all over powerd for performance and, I think, power saving
Apr 25 00:20:09 <halfhalo-pre> only have wirc on plus
Apr 25 00:20:13 <sbromwich> urrrrr?
Apr 25 00:20:21 <sbromwich> how come?
Apr 25 00:20:24 <halfhalo-pre> losinf wifi soon
Apr 25 00:20:28 <sbromwich> ahhhhh
Apr 25 00:20:50 <sbromwich> that makes sense... sorry I thought you mean wirc was only going to be available on plus, which would make me sad ;-)
Apr 25 00:21:57 <sbromwich> halfhalo-pre: thanks for making the effort relaying the info btw, it's really good for those of us who couldn't make it to find out what's going on :-)
Apr 25 00:22:17 <halfhalo-pre> heh
Apr 25 00:24:27 <oil> wasnt wirc written before the plus was announced?
Apr 25 00:24:28 <oil> xD
Apr 25 00:29:58 <acydlord> and released
Apr 25 00:36:46 <rwhitby> ok, I see what Palm means by javascript services now.  They're just changing the layer between Mojo and C libraries from Java to Javascript and making it available for third parties to install as part of an app.
Apr 25 00:37:13 <zsoc> ok then
Apr 25 00:37:16 <zsoc> sounds like fun
Apr 25 00:37:33 <rwhitby> The Javascript services will still be sandboxed and restricted to whatever API Palm decides to expose to the javascript services.  So it won't be a way to write Preware, but would work for wIRCd.
Apr 25 01:13:21 <preoccupied> zsoc: how's precorder coming along?
Apr 25 01:14:14 <zsoc> preoccupied: great, fixing up the command menu now (part of the gui overhaul necessary to release beta)
Apr 25 01:15:18 <preoccupied> zsoc: cool. sounds great.
Apr 25 01:15:24 <en0x> so javascript services are good?
Apr 25 01:15:28 <rwhitby> Govnah 0.1.3 released
Apr 25 01:15:43 <zsoc> en0x: there's no such thing... it's really just a javascript interface between the service and mojo :) so yes, it's good
Apr 25 01:15:59 <zsoc> more is exposed, it's more open, and apparently it's faster, if i understand how it's going to work (with little details)
Apr 25 01:16:01 <rwhitby> zsoc: well, they are javascript services.
Apr 25 01:16:02 <en0x> idk i'm not a java/javascript coder
Apr 25 01:16:03 <preoccupied> zsoc: why is that even necessary? Mojo is JS as well
Apr 25 01:16:12 <en0x> i hate java but it may be just me
Apr 25 01:16:17 <preoccupied> couldn't they put everything in mojo?
Apr 25 01:16:29 <zsoc> rwhitby: i'm having trouble finding 'service' defined
Apr 25 01:16:54 <rwhitby> mojo is front-end, this is just the middle-ware done in the same language as mojo.
Apr 25 01:16:59 <zsoc> rwhitby: isn't the idea that more of the native services will be exposed by the 'javascript services'?
Apr 25 01:17:16 <zsoc> which seem to just be middleware bindings or apis, like you're saying
Apr 25 01:17:25 <zsoc> but is a total guess since i am not an expert and have little information :(
Apr 25 01:17:50 <rwhitby> zsoc: I think if you're in the web world that Palm wants to remain on-story with, then services is the right word, and they sit on top of plugins or some sort of Javascript Native Interface.
Apr 25 01:18:06 <zsoc> hmm.. interesting
Apr 25 01:18:13 <zsoc> I guess it reinforces the idea of a web interface, using js
Apr 25 01:18:34 <rwhitby> they are true services in that they will be long-running and persist past the execution lifetime of the front-end mojo app
Apr 25 01:19:03 <preoccupied> and eating up memory as well...
Apr 25 01:19:04 <rwhitby> I'm interested to know how to they will control javascript services - e.g. how will you kill one that has got a huge memory leak for instance
Apr 25 01:19:57 <rwhitby> So just allowing *anyone* to include a javascript service in an app catalog app will be an interesting exercise on pointing fingers when things go wrong.
Apr 25 01:20:37 <preoccupied> well, i'm sure they're going to sandbox the js services
Apr 25 01:20:51 <oil> i think they realized how awesome all our services are, and wanted to give others the ability to do stuff like it :)
Apr 25 01:20:51 <zsoc> iphone os 4 does something similar
Apr 25 01:21:32 <rwhitby> zsoc: no, iphone os 4 is way more restricted than what Palm is proposing, as far as I can see.
Apr 25 01:21:47 <rwhitby> e.g. I don't think you can do a wIRCd with iphone os 4
Apr 25 01:23:17 <zsoc> i was referring to the idea of shared services :>
Apr 25 01:23:32 <rwhitby> so I see a lot of messages about super pre kernel breaking universal search.  I wonder if that's due to the incorrect kernel version they are using?
Apr 25 01:29:56 <zsoc> rwhitby: or the generally crappy packing ethic
Apr 25 01:31:36 <lingfish> Howdy lads :)
Apr 25 01:33:11 <rwhitby> so, there is a $40 bounty for adding support for launcher icons to save/restore, including placement information
Apr 25 01:33:14 <rwhitby> hey lingfish
Apr 25 01:34:19 <lingfish> Rod :)
Apr 25 01:34:24 <lingfish> You boys have been busy again I see ;)
Apr 25 01:37:50 <rwhitby> oil: there's a request to add xbox friends support to save/restore
Apr 25 01:39:15 <preoccupied> hey Rod, have you seen this post: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/243225-webos-internals-uber-kernel-problem.html
Apr 25 01:39:35 <preoccupied> does it mean that the orange+tap does not work 100%?
Apr 25 01:45:07 <zsoc> i'm not sure if we claimed orange tap worked
Apr 25 01:46:22 <oil> rwhitby: haha, yeah, i saw that
Apr 25 01:47:27 <preoccupied> haha, rwhitby did...
Apr 25 01:55:15 <rwhitby> orange+tap works if you installed the kernel with Preware Alpha only
Apr 25 02:04:17 <preoccupied> rwhitby: the guy in the forum claims that didn't work for him...
Apr 25 02:04:38 <preoccupied> i guess i can test and see if I can reproduce it
Apr 25 02:11:48 <preoccupied> hmm....novacom no longer works
Apr 25 02:16:55 <preoccupied> ok, no problems with kernel files from orange+tap
Apr 25 02:17:26 <preoccupied> just /etc/udev/mount.blacklist & /var/lib/software/tmp/flashing-progress.tga
Apr 25 02:17:46 <rwhitby> yeah, we should just exclude those two from the EFV report
Apr 25 02:18:04 <preoccupied> but, my usb does not seem to work....it charges but my comp no longer recognizes it
Apr 25 02:18:30 <preoccupied> do i need to hard reboot to fix that?
Apr 25 02:22:20 <preoccupied> hmm.....no good
Apr 25 02:26:52 <Keam> I've got a random issue with my pre if anyone could help
Apr 25 02:28:18 <KEYofR> random works fine on mine
Apr 25 02:28:27 <zsoc> i've used /dev/random a few times
Apr 25 02:28:35 <zsoc> worked for my use
Apr 25 02:29:00 <KEYofR> normal people must hate us
Apr 25 02:30:50 <zsoc> AnOutsider: YOU?!
Apr 25 02:31:00 <AnOutsider> ME?!
Apr 25 02:31:12 * oil gets popcorn?
Apr 25 02:31:28 * AnOutsider grabs the rest of his taco?
Apr 25 02:32:59 <zsoc> AnOutsider: you
Apr 25 02:33:04 <zsoc> AnOutsider: i'm making graphics myself here!
Apr 25 02:33:06 <zsoc> :>
Apr 25 02:33:12 <AnOutsider> haha
Apr 25 02:33:16 <AnOutsider> whatcha need man
Apr 25 02:34:06 <zsoc> AnOutsider: you going to be around for awhile?
Apr 25 02:34:25 <zsoc> AnOutsider: i'm converting a lot of my buttons to command menu
Apr 25 02:34:57 <AnOutsider> I'll be around untilt he missus decides on a movie and commands me to bed
Apr 25 02:34:59 * mjkjr is super impressed with uber kernal and govnah, wow
Apr 25 02:35:06 <AnOutsider> then I'll be gone for the 10 minutes it takes her to fall asleep
Apr 25 02:35:48 <KEYofR> outside that is some funny shit right there ;)
Apr 25 02:35:52 <rwhitby> mjkjr: it's all oil's fault
Apr 25 02:36:07 <mjkjr> =)
Apr 25 02:36:17 <oil> wait, whats my fault?
Apr 25 02:36:32 <mjkjr> it's like every day govnah is doing more
Apr 25 02:36:33 <rwhitby> my service just gives some numbers and stuff.  he makes it all look good.
Apr 25 02:37:51 <rwhitby> mjkjr: see, this just shows the real rate at which good apps can be developed.  all those authors that make you wait weeks or months for updates are just slackers.
Apr 25 02:39:11 <mjkjr> rwhitby, i believe it.  I love this "rapid" development
Apr 25 02:39:45 <preoccupied> rwhitby: have you had an issue with the pre being recognized after uninstalling the uber kernel?
Apr 25 02:40:00 <preoccupied> i'm installing the stock kernel to see if it'll fix the usb problem
Apr 25 02:40:11 <mjkjr> i've been using 125-800 on demand, with the latest govnah update i thought i'd try 125-800 conservative gov, working great
Apr 25 02:40:33 <KEYofR> I just hope whoever buys palm does it for some other reason than removing competition from their own platform and gaining patents
Apr 25 02:40:58 <rwhitby> preoccupied: nope
Apr 25 02:41:28 <KEYofR> if they actually keep using it then this won't all be a waste
Apr 25 02:42:51 <preoccupied> hmm....no luck
Apr 25 02:43:04 <webf> if someone buys palm for nefarious reasons, i have a feeling that palm's last action will be to release webos as completely opensource.
Apr 25 02:47:55 <mjkjr> i'm glad webos-internals jumped in on this kernel development, being able to install a kernel using preware is pretty great
Apr 25 02:48:15 <mjkjr> seems a lot safer overall
Apr 25 02:48:39 <zsoc> it is
Apr 25 02:48:52 <mjkjr> no commands for an end user to goof up
Apr 25 02:50:39 <mjkjr> from my understanding orange+tap works fine if kernel is installed with Preware Alpha but needs to be removed regularly if installed using Preware  ?
Apr 25 02:51:56 <rwhitby> yes
Apr 25 02:52:44 <AnOutsider> 800mhz blaaaazes!
Apr 25 02:52:45 <rwhitby> mjkjr: it's all about choosing your design principles before you start development.  we outlined 7 principles and then designed an installation method which met them.
Apr 25 02:52:52 <AnOutsider> *sigh* Real Housewives of NYC it is.
Apr 25 02:52:59 <AnOutsider> zsoc, be back soon as she's sleep
Apr 25 02:53:17 <rwhitby> AnOutsider: you're using Uber-Kernel and Govnah ?
Apr 25 02:53:49 <jacques_pre> wirc color fail
Apr 25 02:53:56 <zsoc> haha
Apr 25 02:53:59 <zsoc> k
Apr 25 02:54:02 <jacques_pre> who just spoke?
Apr 25 02:54:29 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: is that you?
Apr 25 02:54:42 <mjkjr> lol
Apr 25 02:55:03 <jacques_pre> :-|
Apr 25 02:55:47 <mjkjr> rwhitby: maybe more development/developers should follow that path because the end product is clearly much better
Apr 25 02:55:48 <mjkjr> imo
Apr 25 02:56:10 <jacques_pre> hanging out at the palm dev days after event
Apr 25 02:56:57 <mjkjr> i heard every one at dev days got a pre+?  that's pretty cool
Apr 25 02:58:04 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: yes, I spoke
Apr 25 02:58:16 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: say hi to everyone there from me
Apr 25 02:59:18 <jacques_pre> mjkjr: yep :-)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 25 02:59:56 2010