**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 25 02:59:56 2010 Apr 25 03:02:24 wow it's my computer. win7 blows Apr 25 03:03:10 although now i can't be too sure....i did the vol up + power thing, and now it's working Apr 25 03:03:11 hmm Apr 25 03:03:45 preoccupied: everything cool? Apr 25 03:05:12 rwhitby: rick, roy, jhojho, et al say hi back Apr 25 03:07:36 zsoc: yeah, it is now. for some reason, my pre wasn't being recognized by my computer after uninstalling the uber kernel Apr 25 03:08:29 preoccupied: odd Apr 25 03:08:35 jacques_pre: any palm folks there? Apr 25 03:11:32 anyone know why the ondemand governor ignores the min freq? Apr 25 03:12:48 rwhitby: not in my immediate vicinity Apr 25 03:13:33 preoccupied: we're fixing setting stuff right now Apr 25 03:14:21 rwhitby: actually, govnah seems to set it correctly....it just seems like the ondemand governor ignores it Apr 25 03:14:52 I've had win7 stop reacting to usb devices a few times. including but not limited to the pre. M$ has still not escaped the #1 rule to fix anny MS problem, reboot. Apr 25 03:16:22 KEYofR: haha, yes. My biggest annoying with windows is that after it installs windows updates it force reboots your computer. doesn't even ask you to save stuff... Apr 25 03:16:39 /s/annoying/annoyance/ Apr 25 03:16:45 s/annoying/annoyance/ Apr 25 03:16:45 preoccupied meant: /s/annoyance/annoyance/ Apr 25 03:16:53 screw it lol Apr 25 03:19:50 I can't get cpu temp to show Apr 25 03:21:01 ? Apr 25 03:21:19 why not? Apr 25 03:22:29 qtip: are you running a kernel that supports the internal CPU temp sensor ? Apr 25 03:22:45 ka6sox-work: ping? Apr 25 03:22:46 govnah +uber kernel is very nice... good job guys Apr 25 03:22:56 whoever added the dynamically updating icon to gov, nice job! it's really useful... Apr 25 03:22:58 ka6sox-work: have you seen /proc/omap_clocks? Apr 25 03:23:10 I don't have the icon? Apr 25 03:23:29 I just updated toi Apr 25 03:23:45 qtip: you have to launch it first Apr 25 03:30:58 Govnah 0.1.4 in the feeds, with fixed governor-dependent control Apr 25 03:31:49 rwhitby: cool, checking it out now Apr 25 03:36:30 is a cpu speed graph in the works for govnah? Apr 25 03:37:46 pullingj: eventually Apr 25 03:41:28 pullingj: freq, temp, loadavg Apr 25 03:41:41 rwhitby: govnah is now coming up as an "unknown" instead of as an app Apr 25 03:41:43 pullingj: anything else you need to determine good governor parameters? Apr 25 03:43:03 rwhitby: no, not really. I'm probably too lazy to actually make my own paramaters. I've found conservative a little too sluggish with the default settings so far. Apr 25 03:43:55 and I have started to wonder whether underclocking is worth the trouble. It seems to me the radios probably use an order of magnitude more power than you would save by underclocking Apr 25 03:43:59 Tibfib: update feeds, should be fixed now Apr 25 03:44:16 pullingj: http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/applications-power-management/race-to-idle.php Apr 25 03:44:48 Precorder 0.5.5 released, with UI update Apr 25 03:44:57 s/released/released in testing feed/ Apr 25 03:44:57 zsoc meant: Precorder 0.5.5 released in testing feed, with UI update Apr 25 03:45:19 rwhitby: yep that did it Apr 25 03:45:32 rwhitby: that url seems to be what my gut was saying Apr 25 03:45:39 Tibfib: I missed some commas when I added the two new screenshots Apr 25 03:46:01 happens to the best of us :) Apr 25 03:46:08 rwhitby: it's interesting how that comma-missing breaks the update scene in preware Apr 25 03:46:17 almost like an injection :> Apr 25 03:46:48 it breaks it because the commas make the entire json object preware gets the package info from break Apr 25 03:46:57 so it gets no info Apr 25 03:48:06 ah Apr 25 03:48:27 oil: nice work on the friendly lables Apr 25 03:48:35 s/lables/labels/ Apr 25 03:48:36 rwhitby meant: oil: nice work on the friendly labels Apr 25 03:51:08 * rwhitby has a broken Pre on the way to him for surgery practice :) Apr 25 03:52:18 should have it in a week or so Apr 25 04:03:44 rwhitby: no, I used that super prekernel thingamajig Apr 25 04:03:55 AnOutsider: check email Apr 25 04:16:52 AnOutsider: let's just say you should use Uber-Kernel and leave it at that. Apr 25 04:24:28 jacques_pre: is Rick there? Apr 25 04:25:30 rwhitby: I'm pretty sure rick went back to his hotel a while back Apr 25 04:25:59 zsoc, got it. Still want to try with some other files before I hit them up about the accuracy Apr 25 04:26:07 rwhitby: that in the testing feeds? Apr 25 04:26:19 AnOutsider: yep Apr 25 04:26:49 AnOutsider: read http://bit.ly/next-gen-kernels Apr 25 04:26:52 AnOutsider: i'll definately get more clips together... uh.. alternatively... precorder 0.5.5 is in the testing feed as well if you want to give it a shot ^_^ Apr 25 04:27:21 zsoc: I thought you had a stripped down version of the service doing the recording. I can definitely try with a few tracks I KNOW should work Apr 25 04:27:22 zsoc: just tested the new precorder...looks much nicer Apr 25 04:27:38 rwhitby: reading now. Wasn't impressed with the 720 version, but the 800mhz version is so sweet Apr 25 04:27:44 zsoc: although having an issue with the media capture...complaining about not being able to record fast enough Apr 25 04:28:13 preoccupied: that's actually a result of the warn handling /working/ properly Apr 25 04:28:44 preoccupied: it accurately prognosticates pops in the recorning Apr 25 04:28:48 s/recording Apr 25 04:31:59 zsoc: cool. so i'm guessing next would be playback of all recordings? Apr 25 04:33:19 ~testing-feed Apr 25 04:33:20 it has been said that testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Apr 25 04:33:41 preoccupied: i think playback of last recording is enough to release beta at this point Apr 25 04:33:50 and i still need to track down the random segfaults Apr 25 04:36:36 zsoc: haven't had any segfaults... Apr 25 04:37:06 yeah i push funny things lol Apr 25 04:38:37 ok, i'm turning myself into an uber-kernal guinnea pig now. Apr 25 04:38:57 zsoc: hmm, i think i managed to break it. i hit stop recording and start again really fast Apr 25 04:39:12 now it says that the service isn't running Apr 25 04:39:30 hey swisstomcat, how was #palmdev ? Apr 25 04:39:30 evenin g Apr 25 04:39:40 wow, what a day Apr 25 04:39:58 lots of stuff, my head is about the explode :) Apr 25 04:40:02 zsoc: ooh...found a (possibly) major bug...if you kill precorder while it's recording...it keeps recording Apr 25 04:40:07 and i don't think you can stop it Apr 25 04:40:28 it was great rwhitby .. too bad i missed friday Apr 25 04:41:01 preoccupied: yeah, i kinda know about that Apr 25 04:41:09 they doing anything sunday? Apr 25 04:41:12 they "formally" announced the js-services Apr 25 04:41:32 preoccupied: i actually wrote up a fix for it, but i think it didn't get implemented while i was testing a dashboard service, thanks for reminding me Apr 25 04:42:11 preoccupied: you can open terminal and "stop org.webosinternals.precord; start org.webosinternals.precorder" in the meantime Apr 25 04:42:22 k, thanks Apr 25 04:42:24 s/precord/precorder/ Apr 25 04:42:24 zsoc meant: preoccupied: you can open terminal and "stop org.webosinternals.precorder; start org.webosinternals.precorder" in the meantime Apr 25 04:43:20 preoccupied: works much better at 800mhz btw Apr 25 04:43:29 like way much better Apr 25 04:43:34 anyway, i gotta jet Apr 25 04:45:18 zsoc|away: yeah, i'm running at 800...much smoother. later! Apr 25 04:46:13 cute icon for the uberkernal penguin with the little "wi" in the corner Apr 25 04:51:42 Looked at the wiki from "help" in govnah, I found a lot of useful info on there. Apr 25 04:52:29 I never need "help" in an app but was curious because it was the only thing up there, thanks Apr 25 04:57:15 hey, i'm seeing a small bug in preware alpha where it duplicates many of the screenshots for apps in the palm catalog Apr 25 05:00:48 preoccupied: known bug Apr 25 05:02:53 I didn't see on wiki, on Conservative in Govnah what is "sampling down factor" ? Apr 25 05:05:28 dunno, but google should. Apr 25 05:07:22 :-) Apr 25 05:14:32 swisstomcat: js-services? Apr 25 05:14:38 yeah Apr 25 05:14:47 think node.js and common.js Apr 25 05:15:00 Hmm. Apr 25 05:16:39 you register your service on the palm service bus Apr 25 05:16:52 and then call it from your app or from the pdk Apr 25 05:17:44 "palm service bus" == d-bus ? Apr 25 05:18:35 i assume so Apr 25 05:18:44 don't know enough about it Apr 25 05:33:12 beelzabub1: were you at the js service thingie? Apr 25 07:02:36 hmm. Apr 25 07:04:27 no Apr 25 07:04:57 No what? Apr 25 07:05:06 excactly Apr 25 07:05:11 And stuff? Apr 25 07:06:02 yes Apr 25 07:06:40 Right then. Proceed. Apr 25 07:07:10 Is launching the uberkernel GUI app meant to actually do anything? Apr 25 07:07:44 damn uberkernel is not on 1.4.0 Apr 25 07:07:53 I'm just trying it now Apr 25 07:08:05 lingfish: no Apr 25 07:08:21 oil: ah ok, so it's just meant to do the "loading" blink? Apr 25 07:08:33 oil: also, hi :) Apr 25 07:08:39 yes Apr 25 07:08:49 Blinking's good ;) Apr 25 07:08:57 pulse better Apr 25 07:10:37 hrm, and I can't edit a Preware feed either... Apr 25 07:13:09 and ok.. so userspace basically doesn't scale the CPU at all? Apr 25 07:13:33 i believe that means luna is controlling it Apr 25 07:14:03 i think someone said it sets it to 600 when playing the native games Apr 25 07:16:16 yes, thats the only time I"ve seen it go to 600 Apr 25 07:16:43 doncha wanta, wanta fanta Apr 25 07:20:51 it does Apr 25 07:21:01 i think there's a hard coded call in there to jam it to 600 Apr 25 07:21:18 pretty stupid, i brought it up the other day. should at least be out of a conf file Apr 25 07:21:26 i think there's a luna.conf setting to turn it off though Apr 25 07:21:30 something about turbo mode, i think Apr 25 07:25:34 even with it running @ 600mhz for 1/2hr I've never seen it over 48deg Apr 25 07:36:19 did you guys finally figure out that there's no thermistor on the cpu core? Apr 25 07:37:45 lolwhat? thermistor sounds cool Apr 25 07:49:55 geist, its on the SoC someplace...don't know where though. Apr 25 07:50:15 i asked about it. we have to supply it Apr 25 07:50:29 the hw is there in the soc to sample it, but the actual thermistor is an external hookup Apr 25 07:50:58 what, to a toaster? Apr 25 07:51:05 okay, well, thats interesting...because the ADC values are tracking something. Apr 25 07:51:10 * halfhalo_T400 is delerious from lack os sleep Apr 25 07:51:15 and it is load sensitive. Apr 25 07:51:17 i thought it was totally random? Apr 25 07:51:27 nope Apr 25 07:51:34 well, guess we put it on Apr 25 07:51:37 I've been tracking it under load for a while. Apr 25 07:51:50 * geist digs up the schematic Apr 25 07:54:30 it also tracks with speed too...the 800mhz values are 6-10deg hotter than the 600mhz ones. Apr 25 07:54:33 what register were you reading? Apr 25 07:54:53 0x4800 2524 Apr 25 07:54:55 http://i44.tinypic.com/wlwuaa.png :) Apr 25 07:55:14 but its translated to 0xd800 2524 Apr 25 07:57:31 ah yeah, you're right Apr 25 07:57:37 it's in the band gap sensor block Apr 25 07:57:48 right..of the SCM. Apr 25 07:57:48 i think i'm getting my socs confused Apr 25 07:58:08 one of the other ones i worked with you were required to supply it, it would just provide the ADC Apr 25 07:58:31 they talked about it being internal. Apr 25 07:58:41 I just don't know where it is on the substrate. Apr 25 07:58:47 yeah Apr 25 07:58:57 i assume you have the 3530 manual, right? Apr 25 07:59:21 I have both the 3430 programming manual and the 3530 manual. Apr 25 07:59:35 ah, okay. basically the same. as far as i can tell they're the exact same die Apr 25 07:59:40 and i think someone at ti confirmed it Apr 25 08:00:05 I find it funny however that they rate the 3430 @ 600mhz and the 3530 @ 720mhz Apr 25 08:00:25 probably a binning thing more than anything else Apr 25 08:00:31 so it would appear as binning Apr 25 08:00:32 ya Apr 25 08:01:26 been a while since i messed with omap3, but it's a good chip Apr 25 08:01:37 I'm characterizing the temps with different governors @ different freqs Apr 25 08:01:40 and for the most part ti is good people Apr 25 08:01:48 I think so too. Apr 25 08:02:20 I don't have published specs on the temp range of a 3430 but if its the same die as the 3530 then the operating temp range Apr 25 08:02:28 should be around 0-90C Apr 25 08:02:30 good seller A++++ would buy again Apr 25 08:03:19 lol Apr 25 08:03:42 * ka6sox hopes that Palm didn't get them off of eBaY! Apr 25 08:03:43 :D Apr 25 08:04:38 I've never let mine get over 65degC. Apr 25 08:05:35 http://webos.pastebin.com/WtrMWNK5 Apr 25 08:05:56 this was playing asphalt5 + running a benchmark in the background. Apr 25 08:06:41 preoccupied ran this a couple of days ago. Apr 25 08:16:51 interestingly I've notices 9deg jumps up in 1second... Apr 25 08:17:09 not glitches as it stays there. Apr 25 10:10:59 hi guys i need help rooting the palm pre Apr 25 10:12:59 can anyone help me? Apr 25 10:59:40 hola Apr 25 10:59:45 long time no chat Apr 25 11:00:56 reason why I stopped by... after I installed the latest update to Govnah everything seemed fine.... then my phone ended up freezing up while I was playing with the new settings (my phone has never liked scaling for some reason). Apr 25 11:01:28 when it came back up Govnah was missing from the launcher and Preware had no knowledge of any installed apps Apr 25 11:01:44 had to run emergency reconstruction and reinstall Govnah... Apr 25 11:02:23 I am sure it is probably just a little corruption of an open file when the phone froze (and subsequent battery pull) I think preware may have been open when it happened Apr 25 11:31:55 hello, is anyone here Apr 25 11:33:09 could I ask one question about the depot Apr 25 11:36:35 ekson: feel free, but you're likely to get a better answer on #webos where the mojo guys hang out Apr 25 11:37:20 thank you very much. Apr 25 11:38:51 I am developing a note app, and I use a depot object to store the content. Apr 25 11:40:06 I need to know where the depot is? Apr 25 11:40:13 sorry for my poor english Apr 25 11:41:36 which folder the depot object stores in Apr 25 11:41:50 no, mojo handles that for you Apr 25 11:43:16 well, how can I detect whether the depot exist Apr 25 11:45:17 ekson: have you read the Mojo documentation related to Depot ? Apr 25 11:46:15 haven't. Apr 25 11:46:34 I can't read it from the palm pre. Apr 25 11:46:58 that will be the best place to start then Apr 25 11:47:06 my wife doesn't allow me to surf on the internet Apr 25 11:50:10 it will be difficult to do webOS development then Apr 25 12:00:20 Govnah 0.2.2 is in the testing feed Apr 25 13:48:17 rwhitby, screen shots you posted of govnah 0.2.1 look awesome. i'll be able to change to the "dark" theme as well? Apr 25 13:49:13 * mjkjr|wirc likes the dark theme in Preware and wIRC Apr 25 13:50:47 I know that's not an important feature, but I couldn't help noticing because it looks 10 times better IMO Apr 25 13:51:16 http://www.webos-internals.org/images/0/0b/Govnah_themes.png Apr 25 13:54:07 NVM, update is already out for govnah, quick work Apr 25 14:25:54 It is awful quiet here this morning. Apr 25 14:26:12 preoccupied: what part of IL are you connecting from today? Apr 25 14:26:55 wow, I scared him off. Apr 25 14:27:12 anyone else here for me to scare? Apr 25 14:29:37 nt4cats: i think you're pretty scary Apr 25 14:29:55 Good morning, Mr. 'soc. Apr 25 14:30:04 morn Apr 25 14:39:31 zsoc: can I use you as a really fancy variation of Google and/or "the manual"? Apr 25 14:40:21 hi guys can anyone help me rooting palm pre?Please i'm going crazy Apr 25 14:41:13 oooh, "@echo" looks useful Apr 25 14:41:53 Sn4k3: I'd be glad to help you. The Pre doesn't really need to be "rooted" -- all you really need to do is enable things that Palm has put in place and documented ... Apr 25 14:42:20 Sn4k3: what exactly are you trying to accomplish, and what difficulty are you having? Apr 25 14:43:29 well i'm following the guide on web os internals to root my EUROPEAN palm pre Apr 25 14:43:56 Sn4k3: can you give me the URL that you're following, please? Apr 25 14:44:39 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux Apr 25 14:45:15 i'm running win 7 64 bit Apr 25 14:45:37 i've installed all drivers and the phone is recognized by the pc Apr 25 14:46:05 Sn4k3: okay, where is the problem occurring? Apr 25 14:47:16 when i open cmd and type "novacom -t open tty://" it shows to me not root@castle (as supposed to be) but shows a strange "root"account Apr 25 14:47:23 i'm pasting just a sec Apr 25 14:48:02 If the instructions say "root@castle", then they're out of date. Apr 25 14:48:18 why? Apr 25 14:48:20 It should, instead, say "root@palm-webos-device:/var/home/root#" Apr 25 14:48:51 "root@castle" is how older versions of webOS identified itself. This changed a while back. Apr 25 14:49:02 it doesn't give me root account i think just a sec i'm pasting the strange message Apr 25 14:49:43 where do you see "root@castle"? The link you sent me above says "root@webos-device or something similar" (which is close enough ;) ) Apr 25 14:50:41 (and in my 'where do you see', I'm referring to the documentation/instructions on the Wiki -- I'll fix them if you help me find where they're wrong) Apr 25 14:51:13 the message is this: "<-[01;31mpalm-webos-device<-[01;34m / #<-[00m" Apr 25 14:51:30 Okay, that looks like a (hopefully simple) terminal issue Apr 25 14:51:56 can u help me to solve it Apr 25 14:51:57 ? Apr 25 14:52:09 Sn4k3: I'll do my best Apr 25 14:52:16 oh thanks :D Apr 25 14:52:19 Sn4k3: let me do a quick search here ... Apr 25 14:52:23 kk Apr 25 14:53:47 thanks a lot for ur time i'm searching for a solution from a few days Apr 25 14:54:04 if you type (no quotes) "echo $TERM" and press enter (echo is lower-case, TERM is upper-case, with a '$' in front) Apr 25 14:54:10 what does it say? Apr 25 14:55:37 well it says to me vt100 Apr 25 14:55:44 that matches what mine says Apr 25 14:56:03 I don't have Windows 7 here, that is the difference between our two setups Apr 25 14:56:27 i tried it on win xp too Apr 25 14:56:32 what is the heck is the appid of the stock music player Apr 25 14:56:32 and it's the same Apr 25 14:57:22 Sn4k3: as a workaround, try this ... (no quotes) "export TERM=dumb" Apr 25 14:57:39 ah, com.palm.app.musicplayer Apr 25 14:57:54 doing this will probably disable your arrow keys, etc. ... but let's see if that gets rid of the noise you're seeing Apr 25 14:58:49 nothing happens Apr 25 14:59:07 command done but nothing happens Apr 25 14:59:13 Sn4k3: "nothing happens" means it is behaving the same? Apr 25 14:59:33 what i should see? Apr 25 14:59:48 Sn4k3: I'm hoping it says "root@palm-webos-device: " without the funny characters Apr 25 15:00:34 novacom is not a great long-term way to get access to your Pre Apr 25 15:00:48 sure it is, just not on windows Apr 25 15:01:09 s/your Pre/your Pre if you are using Windows/ Apr 25 15:01:09 nt4cats meant: novacom is not a great long-term way to get access to your Pre if you are using Windows Apr 25 15:01:31 :> Apr 25 15:01:34 can u tell me how to do otherwise? Apr 25 15:01:56 Sn4k3: so it appears that while your novacom display is a bit ugly, it seems to be working Apr 25 15:02:29 Sn4k3: how about we get openssh installed and and then you can use a proper terminal program (like Putty) to connect to your Pre? Apr 25 15:02:53 fine how should i do it? Apr 25 15:02:57 Sn4k3: ... and if you don't really need shell access, let's just use this access you have to install Preware and then you're in homebrew heaven. Apr 25 15:03:12 Sn4k3: first, how important is command-line access to you? Apr 25 15:03:36 i want to do everithing on my palm so i would want to root:) Apr 25 15:03:50 Sn4k3: get openssh installed Apr 25 15:04:19 Sn4k3: okay, here is a simple sequence for you to type: Apr 25 15:04:38 cd /media/internal Apr 25 15:04:40 ok Apr 25 15:05:04 wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap Apr 25 15:05:10 sh preware-bootstrap Apr 25 15:05:50 actually Sn4k3 brings up a good point... live cd of some flavour with novacom/term, doctor, etc so people can boot that and not go through the desperation of windows? Apr 25 15:06:13 when i do the wget it gives to me an error that says "bad address" Apr 25 15:06:13 sbromwich: you're a genius. That'd be VERY easy to put together Apr 25 15:06:28 nt4cats: well volunteered ;-) Apr 25 15:06:30 Sn4k3: please make sure you typed it carefully, that URL is correct Apr 25 15:06:35 sbromwich: I'm in Apr 25 15:06:41 *grin* Apr 25 15:06:41 copy paste:/ Apr 25 15:06:53 "bit.ly" Apr 25 15:07:35 Sn4k3: here's what it maps to http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/preware-bootstrap.sh Apr 25 15:08:25 sbromwich: I'm also currently getting Python to build for the Pre ... but that is requiring that I remember Makefile syntax (which I haven't used much in about 15 years) ... but making a livecd spin is right in my wheelhouse Apr 25 15:08:27 i'll try this addres just a sec! Apr 25 15:08:58 nt4cats: what's the Makefile problem? Apr 25 15:09:16 sbromwich: stupid syntax tricks ... nothing google/man can't fix Apr 25 15:09:42 nt4cats: fair enough :-) Apr 25 15:09:57 nt it says to me another time bad address 'glitorious.org' Apr 25 15:10:39 sbromwich: e.g. http://webos.pastebin.com/aSynZ0nV ... line 27, I scratched my head for a few minutes trying to figure out what that was deleting. Apr 25 15:11:12 Resolving gitorious.org... 87.238.52.168 Apr 25 15:11:13 Connecting to gitorious.org|87.238.52.168|:80... connected. Apr 25 15:11:39 sn4k3, gitorious with no L Apr 25 15:12:05 yea yea it doesn't work Apr 25 15:12:11 for me Apr 25 15:12:12 nt4cats: put in something like "echo about to run rm -f $@" before it runs rm -f to see what it thinks $@ is Apr 25 15:12:21 this is the link i used http://palmpre-hacks.com/palm-pre-hacks/how-to-ssh-into-your-palm-pre/ Apr 25 15:12:23 sbromwich: yep, that's what I figured out Apr 25 15:12:48 nt4cats: you have now exhausted the limit of my Makefile debugging capabilities ;-) Apr 25 15:13:02 sbromwich: ... but not having the simple syntax stuff in my head is making the process a bit slow. Interesting, but slow. Apr 25 15:13:22 sbromwich: the only problem is that novacom is not redistributable, so we cannot publish a liveCD with it. Apr 25 15:13:26 yeah, Makefiles do my head in when they start getting spaghetti Apr 25 15:13:37 nt4cats: line 27 is deleting the target Apr 25 15:13:55 rwhitby: is there any way to have a "push this button to automatically set up novacomd" instead then? Apr 25 15:14:18 sbromwich: well, if Palm distributed it for Linux, there might be. Apr 25 15:14:22 nt4cats: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~mai/files/makeReference.html Apr 25 15:14:42 zsoc|around: I did figure that out, I was just using that as an example of something stupid/silly that gave me a moments' pause this morning Apr 25 15:14:55 nt4cats: ah, gotcha, sry Apr 25 15:15:42 rwhitby: I was thinking more like something that would do a wget/curl with whatever agreement needs agreeing to onto palm's site and then dpkg -i blahblah.deb Apr 25 15:16:12 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/launch {\"com.palm.app.musicplayer\":\"file:///media/internal/recordings/precorder_2010-04-23_172745.mp3\"} Apr 25 15:16:15 "** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, { "returnValue": false, "errorText": "Unable to process command. Provide a valid \"id\" field" }" Apr 25 15:16:16 sbromwich: I *think* you actually have to sign up as a developer to legitimately get the SDK from Palm Apr 25 15:16:19 What am i doing wrong here? Apr 25 15:17:03 rwhitby: perhaps that might be something for nt4cats to generously volunteer to follow up with palm on to see if we can get an exemption for the bare minimum to get novaterm working? Apr 25 15:17:24 sbromwich: I've asked many people at Palm for that so far. No luck yet. Apr 25 15:17:26 it's been a while since i downloaded the SDK, I don't recall signing up. I'm not saying you're incorrect rwhitby Apr 25 15:17:46 * mjkjr knows that rwhitby knows most everything Apr 25 15:17:47 mjkjr: I could easily be incorrect Apr 25 15:18:28 ah, i need to use an id Apr 25 15:18:41 I think that a LiveCD that pointed at the instructions could be helpful -- especially if it had everything else useful/helpful already present (and set up to be easy to find/use for Windoze users) Apr 25 15:18:57 rwhitby: maybe if a demo liverecoverycd was makde and shown to palm and then it were asked if it were ok to dist? Apr 25 15:19:09 easier to ask forgiveness, etc Apr 25 15:19:56 I'm happy to support with distribution infrastructure anyone who wants to maintain a LiveCD for such purposes. Apr 25 15:20:03 just checked, didn't make me sign up http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&layout=page&id=1788# Apr 25 15:20:13 Sn4k3: try http://87.238.52.168/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/preware-bootstrap.sh Apr 25 15:21:40 sbromwich: I'll put together a LiveCD tonight while I'm watching baseball as an "alpha release". I'll put it up on a server for people to download/try and comment on. Apr 25 15:22:05 nt4cats: good job :-) Apr 25 15:22:27 nt4cats: it says that the network is unreachable Apr 25 15:22:45 Sn4k3: it sounds like your Pre does not have a connection to the Internet Apr 25 15:22:55 Sn4k3: can you surf using your Pre's browser right now? Apr 25 15:23:11 uh sry didn't open the wifi Apr 25 15:23:12 xD Apr 25 15:23:38 http://www.palm.com/us/company/devtandc.html Apr 25 15:23:44 USING OR ACCESSING ANY PART OF THE SDK, DEVELOPER WEBSITE OR PALM MATERIALS INDICATES THAT YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. Apr 25 15:23:47 readering now Apr 25 15:24:11 nt4cats: IT DOES Apr 25 15:24:38 * nt4cats has to go get some work done around the house, I'll be back online later this afternoon Apr 25 15:24:38 well now? Apr 25 15:24:57 Sn4k3: did you download that .sh file? Apr 25 15:25:04 yea yea Apr 25 15:25:08 okay now do: Apr 25 15:25:14 sh preware-bootstrap.sh Apr 25 15:25:32 3.1 The Palm Materials are Licensed Solely for Your Individual Use. You shall use the Palm Materials solely in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and may not provide the Palm Materials or access to the Developer Website to any other individual or third party. Apr 25 15:25:33 sod. Apr 25 15:25:35 say "no" when it asks you if you want alpha, and answer 'yes' Apr 25 15:25:41 sbromwich: section 3.2 of that is pretty clear. That's why any operations we do on SDK artifacts are done by the end user on their machine with their downloads. Apr 25 15:25:54 (e.g. WIDK and Meta-Doctor) Apr 25 15:26:13 ... to everything else Apr 25 15:26:55 i said y on alpha damn Apr 25 15:27:03 u told me later :/ Apr 25 15:27:09 I have an idea of how to respect the letter AND the spirit of Palm's terms while still helping users. Apr 25 15:27:13 Sn4k3: don't worry Apr 25 15:27:20 few Apr 25 15:27:26 Sn4k3: The alpha software actually works quite well Apr 25 15:28:04 now what i should do? Apr 25 15:28:17 should i xD Apr 25 15:28:17 Sn4k3: use preware Apr 25 15:28:22 xD Apr 25 15:28:36 thanks boss Apr 25 15:28:38 xD Apr 25 15:28:48 i've it on my menu Apr 25 15:29:01 ok binary firmware stylee it is then, as I read it... legal to generate a livecd with a big "click this button to set up your machine to download packages and set up your computer to do terminal access" button that does a wget on the debs from palm and installs them Apr 25 15:29:43 yep Apr 25 15:29:45 I don't see any requirement for a clickthrough license agreement Apr 25 15:29:45 i have an icon package manager? Apr 25 15:29:54 sbromwich: agreed Apr 25 15:30:21 kludgy and dependent on palm not changing urls too often but it'd work Apr 25 15:30:24 sbromwich: but we may want to have a URL for people to click on to read those T&C anyway Apr 25 15:30:35 rwhitby: probably not a bad idea ;-) Apr 25 15:30:43 I'm sure someone else would go to the same trouble ;-) Apr 25 15:30:57 sbromwich: I'll check the channel logs when I make a spin tonight, and if you want to send me anything directly my e-mail is {firstname}@{lastname}.com .. and my name is Drew DeNardo Apr 25 15:30:59 Sn4k3: it will disappear on luna restart Apr 25 15:31:21 nt4cats: gotcha Apr 25 15:31:21 sry what's luna? Apr 25 15:31:38 * nt4cats has to go get the house ready for a family party or my wife will break this laptop over my head Apr 25 15:31:44 Sn4k3: the gui, you can open preware and go to the app menu -> luna manager -> luna restart, if you like Apr 25 15:31:46 *grin* Apr 25 15:31:48 good luck ;-) Apr 25 15:31:53 nt4cats: funny, me too Apr 25 15:42:08 guys anyone knows if is there any application to shut the connection to the internet on the palm pre? Apr 25 15:42:39 airplane mode will do it Apr 25 15:43:21