**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 30 02:59:57 2010
Apr 30 03:01:31 <PreGame> woot!
Apr 30 03:01:57 <PreGame> just powered on for the first time my new MacBook Pro 2.66ghz Intel Core i7
Apr 30 03:02:55 <rwhitby> PreGame: nice!
Apr 30 03:03:16 <rwhitby> PreGame: I have the previous generation to that one, with 8GB of RAM (really helps when running multiple virtual machines)
Apr 30 03:03:22 <jhojho> so envious
Apr 30 03:03:23 <PreGame> yea my wife just got me the laptop then the 27 inch desktop
Apr 30 03:03:33 <geist> same
Apr 30 03:03:39 <geist> 8GB for the win
Apr 30 03:03:45 <jhojho> if only my old laptop had died this month instead of 4 months ago
Apr 30 03:03:53 <geist> pretty standard laptop around the office
Apr 30 03:03:55 <jhojho> cant justify getting the new macbook now
Apr 30 03:04:04 <PreGame> yea my stupid toshiba is about to die so i had to do something
Apr 30 03:04:05 <jacques> I'm trying to decide between i7 15" and i7 17"
Apr 30 03:04:10 <jacques> only $200 difference in price
Apr 30 03:04:14 <PreGame> i got the mac since it is supposed to be the best for programming
Apr 30 03:04:15 <jhojho> geist: next laptop = HP =)
Apr 30 03:04:20 <PreGame> haha
Apr 30 03:04:21 <geist> yeah yeah
Apr 30 03:04:31 <halfhalo_T400> get a dell for the lulz
Apr 30 03:04:35 <jhojho> sorry, couldnt resist
Apr 30 03:04:41 <jacques> HP consumer laptops are the ugliest I have ever seen
Apr 30 03:04:49 <jhojho> jacques: I was trying to decide
Apr 30 03:04:54 <jhojho> ended up with the 15
Apr 30 03:05:05 <jhojho> unless you need the esata for the 17...
Apr 30 03:05:09 <jacques> I would get 15" with 1680x1050 matte screen
Apr 30 03:05:20 <jhojho> and the extra real estate.
Apr 30 03:05:25 <halfhalo_T400> I have never, ever, ever used esata
Apr 30 03:05:25 <jacques> but I really could use the expresscard port
Apr 30 03:05:27 <PreGame> rwhitby: now i can compile the C version of flashlight
Apr 30 03:05:29 <jhojho> that would be nice
Apr 30 03:05:42 <jacques> I use it to connect to my blu-ray drive
Apr 30 03:05:54 <PreGame> does the mac have blu ray?
Apr 30 03:05:54 <jhojho> that's what I meant.. expresscard to esata ...
Apr 30 03:05:59 <jhojho> no
Apr 30 03:06:02 <PreGame> oh
Apr 30 03:06:04 <PreGame> i got excited
Apr 30 03:06:23 <PreGame> now i have to learn mac, i am so used to windows
Apr 30 03:06:26 <jacques> I have a flashed PC blu-ray drive
Apr 30 03:06:27 <jhojho> no SSD TRIM either before you ask
Apr 30 03:06:37 <geist> aww, fail
Apr 30 03:06:49 <jhojho> ?
Apr 30 03:06:55 <jacques> also, true full HD resolution would be a plus for watching blu-rays
Apr 30 03:07:10 <rwhitby> PreGame: now you can run Linux easily in VirtualBox and compile kernels too :)
Apr 30 03:07:23 <jhojho> got an el cheapo samsung display for that.
Apr 30 03:07:29 <jacques> I'm just waiting to see what the linux situation is on the new macbook pros
Apr 30 03:07:42 <jhojho> jacques: just run vmware
Apr 30 03:07:45 <halfhalo_T400> I have a higher than 1080p screen on deskytop
Apr 30 03:07:46 <jhojho> done.
Apr 30 03:07:48 <jacques> ideally I could chose which GPU to use under linux
Apr 30 03:07:49 <halfhalo_T400> I heart it
Apr 30 03:07:57 <rwhitby> jacques: I just run virtualbox and be done with it
Apr 30 03:08:03 * halfhalo_T400 has basic switchable gfx on his T400
Apr 30 03:08:07 <jacques> virtualbox is not open
Apr 30 03:08:23 <rwhitby> jacques: there's an open version
Apr 30 03:08:33 <jacques> which is not used by anything
Apr 30 03:08:40 <jacques> because it's crippled
Apr 30 03:09:02 <jacques> which is what you get when your busines model is open version and closed version
Apr 30 03:10:01 <jacques> I'll just wait til someone reverses the GPU selection bits
Apr 30 03:10:25 <jacques> I haven't booted my imac to osx in like 8 months
Apr 30 03:10:49 <jhojho> jacques: why buy an imac if you arent going to use mac os?
Apr 30 03:10:59 <jhojho> cheaper to buy pc hardware and run linux
Apr 30 03:11:07 <jacques> because it's great hardware.
Apr 30 03:11:12 <jacques> I've done the PC thing
Apr 30 03:11:18 <jacques> they are noisy and crappy
Apr 30 03:11:27 <jacques> I never hear my imac
Apr 30 03:11:36 <jhojho> meh. mac hardware isnt all that.
Apr 30 03:11:40 <jacques> it has a beautiful IPS display
Apr 30 03:11:41 * halfhalo_T400 has a laptop which makes no noise
Apr 30 03:11:43 <jhojho> my first macbook was DOA
Apr 30 03:11:59 <jhojho> transmeta efficeon was no noise =)
Apr 30 03:14:35 <jacques> it's funny; at the embedded linux conference, almost everyone had thinkpads. at palm dev days, almost everyone had macbook pros
Apr 30 03:14:53 <halfhalo_T400> thinkpads ftw
Apr 30 03:15:24 <halfhalo_T400> awwww
Apr 30 03:15:28 <halfhalo_T400> notepad++ frozw
Apr 30 03:17:41 <jhojho> gvim
Apr 30 03:17:50 <halfhalo_T400> heh
Apr 30 03:18:04 <halfhalo_T400> trying to work out what data will be sent to whan for new app
Apr 30 03:18:38 <halfhalo_T400> it lets you monitor certain aspects of a webos device from your desktop, and lets you send files/urls to the pre
Apr 30 03:19:31 <halfhalo_T400> trying to gather all the data I want sent to the desktop per device
Apr 30 03:23:53 <preoccupied> zsoc: looks like someone's hard at work tonight...
Apr 30 03:24:29 <zsoc> preoccupied: you following my git? lol
Apr 30 03:24:37 <preoccupied> zsoc: yep :)
Apr 30 03:26:06 <zsoc> preoccupied: the amazing part is, it worked on my first commit lol. well, everything except now i've created another bug :D
Apr 30 03:27:15 <preoccupied> zsoc: haha, great
Apr 30 03:27:31 <preoccupied> zsoc: gonna try to update the wiki now....anything I should add?
Apr 30 03:27:59 <zsoc> preoccupied: screenshots :>
Apr 30 03:28:30 <preoccupied> zsoc: lol, just fixed one of them
Apr 30 03:32:19 <rwhitby> preoccupied, zsoc: nice work on the wiki page
Apr 30 03:32:40 <rwhitby> zsoc: have you decided on the final name?  are you going with Precorder?
Apr 30 03:33:23 <zsoc> rwhitby: still undecided
Apr 30 03:33:31 <preoccupied> rwhitby: thanks :)
Apr 30 03:33:49 <zsoc> rwhitby: i figure I has as long as it takes to fix this last bug, the icon, and make the support scene ;)
Apr 30 03:36:54 <preoccupied> zsoc: one bug i just noticed. The list group in preferences is called "score". Not sure if that was intended...
Apr 30 03:37:46 <zsoc> preoccupied: probably not :>
Apr 30 03:38:08 <zsoc> lol it is, it says score.
Apr 30 03:38:09 <zsoc> amazing.
Apr 30 03:38:38 <preoccupied> zsoc: i'm sure it's a small fix
Apr 30 03:38:48 <zsoc> preoccupied: of course :P
Apr 30 03:40:23 <preoccupied> anyone tried the latest ubuntu?
Apr 30 03:40:49 <preoccupied> just finished downloading it
Apr 30 03:41:01 <jacques> I tried the 10.04 LTS server version beta a while back
Apr 30 03:41:04 <zsoc> i have too many production devices and too few development devices lol
Apr 30 03:41:10 <jacques> it seemed fine. worked with WIDK fine
Apr 30 03:41:42 <preoccupied> jacques: ok, cool. Now the question is whether to kill my 9.10 or do an upgrade...
Apr 30 03:42:14 <jacques> dunno about that/ personally I avoid upgrades.
Apr 30 03:42:48 <preoccupied> yeah. i hate upgrades as well.
Apr 30 03:42:48 * sethron thinks Precorder v. 0.5.8 will jack up the Pre
Apr 30 03:43:02 <preoccupied> but i also hate refixing everything after a fresh install
Apr 30 03:44:01 <sethron> ubuntu is good at upgrading its version to higher version
Apr 30 03:44:38 <preoccupied> yeah. i think i might go with an upgrade
Apr 30 03:47:35 * sethron ponders making a virutal machine with ubuntu server 10.04 64bit
Apr 30 03:48:00 <jacques> that's what I did - KVM
Apr 30 03:51:14 * halfhalo_T400 has written up the first draft of his preMonitor API http://pastebin.com/WUXjH8jh
Apr 30 03:56:05 <sethron> zsoc: SCORE - nice touch
Apr 30 03:57:19 <zsoc> sethron: hm?
Apr 30 03:57:21 <zsoc> oh
Apr 30 03:57:22 <zsoc> lol
Apr 30 03:57:36 <zsoc> yeah, i figure people want to be able to keep score of their.. uh..
Apr 30 03:57:38 <zsoc> preferences
Apr 30 03:57:55 <sethron> yup
Apr 30 04:00:40 <sethron> the play button only plays the most recent recording, i have not tested the media capture, for me, just the mic, like me ol trusty treo
Apr 30 04:03:47 <rwhitby> http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels/
Apr 30 04:04:12 <rwhitby> a new feed that will be included in Preware once we have package-specific install disclaimers in place
Apr 30 04:08:53 <jhojho> rwhitby:  is this replacing the testing feed?
Apr 30 04:09:06 <jhojho> confused due to the pkgs moving around....
Apr 30 04:09:27 <rwhitby> jhojho: no, this is where the stuff goes after it's been promoted from the testing feed
Apr 30 04:09:37 <jhojho> ah
Apr 30 04:09:57 <rwhitby> jhojho: webos-kernels is analogous to the webos-patches feed - it is webos version specigic
Apr 30 04:10:00 <rwhitby> specific
Apr 30 04:10:13 <zsoc> im confused, was sethron just informing me how my app worked? :?
Apr 30 04:10:26 <jhojho> k
Apr 30 04:10:50 <rwhitby> jhojho: the stock kernel is going in there to start with, and later that's where uber-kernel will end up
Apr 30 04:11:20 <zsoc> sethron|away: for future reference, you can access the other recordings from your music player :p
Apr 30 04:15:37 <sethron> zsoc: glad to run a stable version :)
Apr 30 04:16:08 <zsoc> sethron: ah, ok then mate :)
Apr 30 04:17:37 <halfhalo> hmmm
Apr 30 04:18:19 <halfhalo> deciding whether to make both an app catalog version of premonitor and a homebrew with more features
Apr 30 04:18:33 <zsoc> halfhalo: do both
Apr 30 04:20:04 <halfhalo> only issue is I'm planning to make it paid, although I guess I could make it so that you can't make an account via the hb version, and only through the paid version
Apr 30 04:20:18 <jhojho> premonitor?
Apr 30 04:20:33 <halfhalo> it's an app I'm making
Apr 30 04:21:04 <halfhalo> it basically gives you certain stats on your pre on a desktop
Apr 30 04:21:34 <jhojho> I'm waiting for someone to make an app called premonition but I only have a vague sense about it
Apr 30 04:22:05 <halfhalo> lol
Apr 30 04:22:16 <halfhalo> oh, premon can also send files to pre
Apr 30 04:22:52 <halfhalo> ffff.  don't want to get out of car
Apr 30 04:22:58 <halfhalo> it's cold and windy
Apr 30 04:25:18 <halfhalo> and.... broke usb cover
Apr 30 04:25:24 <jhojho> oops
Apr 30 04:30:39 <halfhalo> ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Apr 30 04:30:40 <halfhalo> cold
Apr 30 04:36:08 <PreGame> how do i do an auto perform like auto login when i join with limechat?
Apr 30 04:37:54 <halfhalo> majic
Apr 30 04:38:10 <halfhalo> oh my god
Apr 30 04:38:10 <halfhalo> so cold
Apr 30 04:38:20 <PreGame> how the heck do you make something full screen on the mac?
Apr 30 04:38:50 <halfhalo> green plus
Apr 30 04:38:54 <ka6sox> green dot
Apr 30 04:39:25 <ka6sox> upper left hand corner
Apr 30 04:39:28 <PreGame> i do and it doesn't do anything
Apr 30 04:39:45 <PreGame> well it makes it full screen height but not width
Apr 30 04:39:45 <ka6sox> then its max size....try lower right corner and pull.
Apr 30 04:44:34 <PreGame_> hello
Apr 30 05:09:51 <jhojho> dBsooner: ping?
Apr 30 07:00:30 <Sn4k3> hi guys i'm having some problems with netstat app on preware can anyone help me?
Apr 30 07:09:35 <rwhitby> Sn4k3: what problem are you having?  Have you installed both the app and the daemon?
Apr 30 07:10:45 <Sn4k3> yes i do
Apr 30 07:11:20 <Sn4k3> the app since i installed it doesn't show any stats of the connection
Apr 30 07:11:36 <Sn4k3> and the day to reset counter tab
Apr 30 07:11:42 <Sn4k3> shows NaN
Apr 30 07:15:31 <Sn4k3> rwhitby: what i should do to get it function?
Apr 30 07:15:33 <rwhitby> how did you install the daemon?
Apr 30 07:15:37 <Sn4k3> preware
Apr 30 07:15:55 <rwhitby> and you've tried a reboot already?
Apr 30 07:16:05 <Sn4k3> yes a remove of battery too
Apr 30 07:16:31 <rwhitby> you would need to go into the command line and determine whether the daemon is running
Apr 30 07:19:25 <Sn4k3> i know the daemon is running because at the first install I SHOULD reboot to start it, because if i don't the app didn't show anything
Apr 30 07:19:54 <Sn4k3> however what command i should type to know that the daemon is running?
Apr 30 07:27:01 <rwhitby> Sn4k3: ps -ef
Apr 30 08:59:46 <gizmo21> anyone with webos bluetooth knowledge online right now?
Apr 30 09:07:06 <gizmo21> have a question regarding music player loosing it's BT-signal to the BT-headset after song change. e.g. dr podder palying podcasts without prob more than 1h, but after a song change in music palyer it sometimes looses the signal to the headset (SonyErricsson hbh-ds205): http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/199607-music-player-remix-100.html#post2198543
Apr 30 09:28:15 <gizmo21> hhm ok seems to be no bluetooth crack around, he?
Apr 30 12:53:33 <unsigned> I'm on OSX (1.5.8). What could be the reason for a corrupt webosdoctor jar simply after running 'make unpack pack' ?
Apr 30 12:57:19 <unsigned> I'm on OSX (1.5.8). What could be the reason for a corrupt webosdoctor jar simply after running 'make unpack pack' ?
Apr 30 12:58:08 <unsigned> FYI: Also tried this -> http://discussion.treocentral.com/2356057-post293.html
Apr 30 12:59:06 <Ephreet> Not that anyone cares, but I had an issue yesterday with preware, and pulling down Uber-Kernel... Once I left my WLAN and went on 3G, it worked fine... So I'm happy now.
Apr 30 13:19:17 <rwhitby> unsigned: I develop the meta-doctor on OSX snow leopard
Apr 30 13:19:42 <rwhitby> Ephreet: did you work out what was wrong with your WLAN ?
Apr 30 13:20:02 <Ephreet> Honestly, I'm really not sure why it was happening.
Apr 30 13:20:33 <Ephreet> I didn't think it was an issue with the WLAN here at work.
Apr 30 13:20:59 <Ephreet> I'm just stubborn and tried it again when I got home and was on my VZW 3G connection and it worked.
Apr 30 13:21:18 <Ephreet> So I can't actually say it was my WLAN... I'm just assuming it is without any hard data to prove it.
Apr 30 13:21:25 <unsigned> rwhitby: Do you use any special toolchain?
Apr 30 13:21:41 <rwhitby> unsigned: no, just the macports that are listed on the wiki page
Apr 30 13:21:50 <unsigned> I d/l'ed the jar , confirmed the md5 , installed the macports etc
Apr 30 13:21:57 <unsigned> it runs on itself
Apr 30 13:22:05 <unsigned> but simply unpacking and repacking it corrupts it
Apr 30 13:22:06 <unsigned> :(
Apr 30 13:22:24 <unsigned> anything I could try?
Apr 30 13:23:06 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: I'm here to relieve you of your shift
Apr 30 13:23:27 <unsigned> FWIW I have Xcode 3.1.4 , not sure what the latest one is
Apr 30 13:23:42 <rwhitby> zsoc_wirc: it's still early here, not even 11pm.  and I've got a Preware Alpha release to do
Apr 30 13:24:04 <rwhitby> unsigned: I got an XCode update recently
Apr 30 13:24:35 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: did you move or did your time zone change? lol. I thought you were +15.5 gmt
Apr 30 13:24:59 <rwhitby> unsigned: running Xcode 3.2.2 here
Apr 30 13:25:09 <rwhitby> zsoc_wirc: daylight savings ended
Apr 30 13:25:19 <zsoc_wirc> ah
Apr 30 13:25:20 <rwhitby> I'm GMT+9:30 as usual
Apr 30 13:25:34 <zsoc_wirc>  silly man made timezone adjustments lol
Apr 30 13:25:38 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: all of the aussies flocked to their local beach and rowed for a few hours, moving the whole place
Apr 30 13:25:39 <unsigned> I'll updating try tommorow when my net is unchoked (D/L Limit :( )
Apr 30 13:25:41 <Lumiere> and most of the northern hemisphere went into DST
Apr 30 13:25:51 <Lumiere> unsigned: silly ISPs with bw limits
Apr 30 13:26:16 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: either that or too many women dressed immodestly at the same time causing seismic shifts, etc. etc. etc.
Apr 30 13:26:24 <unsigned> Lumiere: +1, agree
Apr 30 13:26:32 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: I said +15.5 gmt, I meant 15.5 est, which is 10.5 gmt, which makes sense you're 9.5 now lol numbers.
Apr 30 13:26:35 <Ephreet> Is there a way to change the device name so it's not palm-webos-device in the terminal software?  I'm assuming that's my phone's local host name
Apr 30 13:26:55 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: ha
Apr 30 13:27:31 <rwhitby> Ephreet: /etc/hosts
Apr 30 13:28:08 <rwhitby> ok, every feed that has more than 500 packages is going to be disabled when Preware is first installed
Apr 30 13:28:12 <nt4cats> Ephreet: [I have not changed my Pre's hostname] given that your Pre is just a linux box I'd assume that visiting the combination of /etc/hosts and whomever is calling 'hostname' on startup you could do it
Apr 30 13:28:46 <nt4cats> Ephreet: ... but I would make sure that "palm-webos-device" is an alternate/alias because that name may be used somewhere in scripts/code running on the phone
Apr 30 13:29:08 <Ephreet> Yeah I was about to say that I wonder if it's not hard coded in other places
Apr 30 13:29:23 <Ephreet> Linux is scripty like that.
Apr 30 13:29:32 <nt4cats> Ephreet: my comments are conjecture -- I haven't tried this (yet)
Apr 30 13:29:58 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  It's very logical conjecture.
Apr 30 13:30:11 <nt4cats> Ephreet: I try ...
Apr 30 13:31:30 <nt4cats> Ephreet: /etc/init.d/hostname.sh reads /etc/hostname and passes that as an argument to the 'hostname' command ... let me see if /etc/init.d/hostname.sh is actually called/used ...
Apr 30 13:31:59 <unsigned> rwhitby: Do you do anything from this list http://discussion.treocentral.com/2356057-post293.html to build?
Apr 30 13:32:30 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  what do I use to edit it.... vi?
Apr 30 13:32:44 <Ephreet> is there any way to ssh to this thing over the wlan?
Apr 30 13:33:01 <nt4cats> Ephreet: I'm not sure this script is used/called -- hold on
Apr 30 13:33:26 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Oh I'm waiting, I was just asking in general
Apr 30 13:33:26 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: your omments are very conjecture. I've has a device changed host name for months with much hackery and no noticeable negative results
Apr 30 13:33:54 <nt4cats> Ephreet: you should listen to zsoc_wirc, as he's actually done this before.
Apr 30 13:34:16 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  I will, even though yesterday he left me hanging ;)
Apr 30 13:34:22 <rwhitby> unsigned: no, I only do what is on the wiki page.
Apr 30 13:35:19 <rwhitby> Ephreet: install Preware and the OpenSSH SFTP Server (it will automatically install any other dependencies). Set up keys, and you're good to go.
Apr 30 13:35:19 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: I wasn't saying it wouldn't work, only that if I changed the hostname I'd leave "palm-webos-devics" as an alias in /etc/hosts because I'm paranoid like that :)
Apr 30 13:35:36 <zsoc_wirc> Ephreet: I do have a job
Apr 30 13:35:43 <nt4cats> /etc/init.d/hostname.sh is called by /etc/event.d/hostname
Apr 30 13:35:48 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: that's a good habit :)
Apr 30 13:35:57 <Ephreet> zsoc_wirc:  I do, too.
Apr 30 13:36:16 <nt4cats> ... and I might even spell the alias correctly ... maybe ...
Apr 30 13:36:42 <Ephreet> zsoc_wirc:  It was a friendly jest, I understand completely.
Apr 30 13:38:28 <RagingMind> great... I install the uber kernel and now I might have to doctor my phone and return it...  while rebooting I noticed a dead pixel
Apr 30 13:38:42 <zsoc_wirc> did you fix it?\n
Apr 30 13:39:01 <rwhitby> Preware Alpha 0.9.64 released to the testing feed
Apr 30 13:39:13 <RagingMind> zsoc_wirc, are you using the on screen keyboard?
Apr 30 13:39:37 <zsoc_wirc> lol why?
Apr 30 13:39:38 <Ephreet> rwhitby: just any ol' terminal emulator will work, right?
Apr 30 13:40:04 <rwhitby> Ephreet: it's stock standard openssh at the server end
Apr 30 13:40:11 <nt4cats> Ephreet: [nt4cat's lawyer has required him to advise you that he has not tried this and cannot guarantee that if you listen to him that anything will work and that you take full responsibility for broken phones, ruined lives, loss of limb, or random 'oh-crap-I-forgot-to-set-the-DVR' episodes that occur as a direct or indirect result of listening to him]
Apr 30 13:40:15 <RagingMind> some friend on a different network noticed that sometimes my end of line had an extra \n
Apr 30 13:40:38 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Screen printed and saved for later litigation
Apr 30 13:40:41 <RagingMind> "\ n"
Apr 30 13:40:42 <nt4cats> Ephreet: ... but given that upstart causes /etc/hostname to be read, I think if you edit /etc/hostname and then add your new hostname to /etc/hosts you'll be good
Apr 30 13:41:03 <RagingMind> and I figured out it was from hitting return with the onscreen keyboard
Apr 30 13:42:20 <nt4cats> s/to be read/to be used as input to set the hostname/
Apr 30 13:42:20 <infobot> nt4cats meant: Ephreet: ... but given that upstart causes /etc/hostname to be used as input to set the hostname, I think if you edit /etc/hostname and then add your new hostname to /etc/hosts you'll be good
Apr 30 13:42:47 <RagingMind> zsoc_wirc, how does one fix a dead pixel?
Apr 30 13:43:10 * nt4cats wonders if he can talk RagingMind into trying a magic marker ...
Apr 30 13:43:36 <Ephreet> RaginMind:  The tears of Chuck Norris
Apr 30 13:43:42 * RagingMind glares at nt4cats and gets his medium red trout ready
Apr 30 13:46:21 <rwhitby> So, has anyone updated to Preware Alpha 0.9.64 yet ?
Apr 30 13:47:46 <nt4cats> rwhitby: will do so now ...
Apr 30 13:47:58 <Ephreet> rwhitby:  Okay, I've installed the OpenSSH Server, so there is no configuration GUI for it, right?
Apr 30 13:48:14 <rwhitby> Ephreet: correct.  click on the homepage link in Preware for OpenSSH
Apr 30 13:48:45 <nt4cats> ... updating to 0.9.64 ...
Apr 30 13:48:56 <rwhitby> Ephreet: how would you use a configuration GUI to create your keys, without also allowing some other rogue mojo application to overwrite your keys with bogus ones?
Apr 30 13:49:19 <Ephreet> rwhitby:  I wasn't complaining I was confirming
Apr 30 13:49:32 <rwhitby> Ephreet: no worries, mate.
Apr 30 13:49:49 <en0x> rwhitby: i did
Apr 30 13:50:06 <nt4cats> rwhitby: *.64 running here, my phone did not melt.  Fewer packages available (no surprise)
Apr 30 13:50:09 <rwhitby> en0x: did it keep all your enabled and disabled feeds as-is or did it change some?
Apr 30 13:50:27 <rwhitby> nt4cats: did you upgrade, or reinstall ?
Apr 30 13:50:41 <en0x> rwhitby: i had palm feeds disabled before the upgrade'
Apr 30 13:50:44 <nt4cats> rwhitby: upgrade from .63
Apr 30 13:50:48 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: upgrade here. works
Apr 30 13:51:01 <zsoc_wirc> but yes, already had feeds disabled
Apr 30 13:51:03 <nt4cats> rwhitby: the ones I had disabled (themes) stayed disabled.
Apr 30 13:51:20 <rwhitby> anyone who had large feeds enabled before the upgrade?
Apr 30 13:51:29 <rwhitby> did they stay enabled, or where they disabled?
Apr 30 13:51:31 <nt4cats> rwhitby: the palm-beta, and palm-web feeds were enabled but are now disabled
Apr 30 13:51:45 <Ephreet> Yeah, themes is crapping out for me every once in a while using regular preware, what's up with that?  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Apr 30 13:51:47 <nt4cats> rwhitby: I already had the palm-catalog feed disabled beforehand
Apr 30 13:52:07 <en0x> it did not disable my palm-web and palm-beta feeds
Apr 30 13:52:13 <Ephreet> nt4cats: yeah it really speeds up preware's load time if you do that.
Apr 30 13:52:36 <rwhitby> en0x: the base feeds or the update feeds?
Apr 30 13:52:37 <nt4cats> en0x: Interesting, it did disable my palm-web and palm-beta
Apr 30 13:52:56 <nt4cats> rwhitby: the base feeds for both in my case.  The update feeds for both are still enabled for me
Apr 30 13:53:13 <en0x> rwhitby: the update feeds
Apr 30 13:53:18 <rwhitby> Ephreet: themes are poorly supported
Apr 30 13:53:35 <RagingMind> wow... the temp of the processor rises and falls rather quickly with the speed
Apr 30 13:54:11 <rwhitby> RagingMind: yep, that's what happens when you have a thermal sensor which is actually touching the thing you want to measure, instead of off in a battery somewhere.
Apr 30 13:54:17 <Ephreet> rwhitby:  As blasphemous as it may be, i am using the iPhone iCons theme.
Apr 30 13:54:59 <rwhitby> Ephreet: well, all I can say is that if you say there is a problem with themes, I'll just say "meh" ;)
Apr 30 13:55:19 <Ephreet> rwhitby:  Well, once I put that on there, I could care less about it.
Apr 30 13:55:28 <Ephreet> rwhitby:  But, understood
Apr 30 13:55:37 <rwhitby> They are in dire need of an overhaul to use AUPT.  You will care about it when the next webOS update comes.
Apr 30 13:55:56 <RagingMind> the pre seems to do just fine at 250MHz...
Apr 30 13:56:44 <rwhitby> So, do I have confirmation from someone that Preware 0.9.64 has actually disabled some feeds that they previously had enabled, and they did an upgrade rather than a reinstall ?
Apr 30 13:58:07 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: my avail packages went from 1000+ to 700+ so... I think
Apr 30 13:58:09 <nt4cats> rwhitby: http://webos.pastebin.com/U0p8k2br
Apr 30 13:58:50 <nt4cats> rwhitby: I can confirm your statement
Apr 30 14:00:36 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  That's what zsoc_wire was talking about yesterday!  I couldn't figure out how to use it...
Apr 30 14:01:42 <nt4cats> Ephreet: couldn't figure out how to use what?
Apr 30 14:01:55 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  that paste thingy
Apr 30 14:01:55 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: he's referring to pastebin xD
Apr 30 14:02:01 <rwhitby> nt4cats: thx - that confirms my suspicion that my postinst disabling logic needs some improvement
Apr 30 14:03:49 <nt4cats> rwhitby: It should be okay for me to re-enable selected feeds now, right?
Apr 30 14:03:54 <rwhitby> nt4cats: yes
Apr 30 14:04:08 <rwhitby> looks like I need to fix the postinst and push a 0.9.65
Apr 30 14:07:02 <Ephreet> rwhitby:  back to OpenSSH, you're talking about going to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page right?
Apr 30 14:08:14 <nt4cats> Ephreet: did you look at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH ?
Apr 30 14:09:03 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Thanks
Apr 30 14:10:10 <rwhitby> nt4cats: I'll get you to retest a new version soon thanks
Apr 30 14:10:27 <nt4cats> rwhitby: I'll be here
Apr 30 14:11:42 <rwhitby> nt4cats: please enable some feeds that were disabled before, and then upgrade to Preware Alpha 0.9.65
Apr 30 14:11:53 <rwhitby> Preware Alpha 0.9.65 is in the testing feed now
Apr 30 14:12:16 <nt4cats> I re-enabled palm-web, palm-beta already.  I'll upgrade now ...
Apr 30 14:13:11 * zsoc_wirc enables all feeds
Apr 30 14:17:51 <rwhitby> This version also has some logic included in advance so that when we release Preware 1.0, then uninstalling Preware Alpha will not screw up the service by removing it from underneath Preware 1.0 ...
Apr 30 14:18:29 <gizmo21> have a question regarding music player loosing it's BT-pairing to the BT-headset after song change. e.g. dr podder playing podcasts without prob more than 1h, but after a song change in music player it sometimes looses the pairing to the headset (SonyErricsson hbh-ds205): http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/199607-music-player-remix-100.html#post2198543  - anyone ideas?
Apr 30 14:18:51 <nt4cats> rwhitby: my feeds were unchanged
Apr 30 14:18:54 <Lumiere> rwhitby: can Preware 1.0 do a smart uninstall of Preware Alpha as part of the postinst?
Apr 30 14:19:19 <nt4cats> rwhitby: themes and palm catalog (still disabled), all the rest are (still) enabled.
Apr 30 14:19:36 <Lumiere> (as in... a "Replaces" type of deal
Apr 30 14:19:41 <rwhitby> Lumiere: it could, but I would not do so.  Preware Alpha will continue to be used for bleeding edge next generation work
Apr 30 14:20:05 <Lumiere> rwhitby: I meant a remove pre1.0 versions of Preware Alpha
Apr 30 14:20:16 <rwhitby> the plan is to make it safe to uninstall Preware Alpha after you have installed Preware
Apr 30 14:20:20 <Lumiere> k
Apr 30 14:20:38 <rwhitby> cause if the install of Preware goes wrong, you want to have Preware alpha still there so you can try a reinstall.
Apr 30 14:20:51 <Lumiere> rwhitby: it may also be worthwhile to use a 1.even stable 1.odd development method for preware that prevents needing Preware+Preware Alpha :)
Apr 30 14:21:39 <rwhitby> Lumiere: that would be way too constraining
Apr 30 14:21:57 <rwhitby> and would not be understood by 99% of Preware users
Apr 30 14:22:24 <Lumiere> well if the dev releases were on testing only (or maybe a unstable feed)
Apr 30 14:22:43 <Lumiere> non-develop/tester users shouldn't ever know about the 1.1 series
Apr 30 14:23:03 <rwhitby> but that would mean that you would not be able to have a stable Preware and an alpha Preware installed at the same time
Apr 30 14:23:11 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Thanks again, I'm in SSH on my phone
Apr 30 14:23:28 <nt4cats> Ephreet: well done
Apr 30 14:23:28 <Ephreet> rwhitby:  thanks to you, as well.
Apr 30 14:23:36 <rwhitby> so when alpha Preware stuffs up (cause it's alpha), you don't have a way to install the fixed version
Apr 30 14:23:54 <rwhitby> (without resorting to less convenient means)
Apr 30 14:24:25 <Lumiere> what happens if alpha breaks the service?
Apr 30 14:24:30 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Thise were good wiki instructions
Apr 30 14:24:52 <nt4cats> Ephreet: I didn't write them, I just looked up the URL for you
Apr 30 14:24:56 <Lumiere> (not disagreeing with your arguement, just understanding)
Apr 30 14:25:01 <rwhitby> Lumiere: then you're stuffed anyway :)
Apr 30 14:25:07 <Lumiere> lol
Apr 30 14:25:14 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  I understand that, I was just saying, they were good.
Apr 30 14:25:14 <dual> sorry if poking my nose in the wrong room... #webos instead? - where would one start for looking into development for changing "default applications" per "file types"?... i.e. install linux app, but configure through webos?
Apr 30 14:25:39 <rwhitby> dual: correct channel
Apr 30 14:25:47 <dual> sweet :)
Apr 30 14:26:06 <rwhitby> but I don't know the answer at fingertips :)
Apr 30 14:26:21 <zsoc_wirc> rwhitby: enabled all feeds. updated to 65
Apr 30 14:26:28 <dual> looking for getting my feet wet with doc writters having read about open office... would be great to get around all of the shortcomings with limited file type players
Apr 30 14:27:05 <dual> thinking could easily get web based conversions for things like pps -> ppt and such
Apr 30 14:49:03 * rwhitby bbt - night all
Apr 30 14:49:55 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  You still around?
Apr 30 14:50:15 <Ephreet> rwhitby:  'night
Apr 30 15:02:39 <nt4cats> Ephreet: yes
Apr 30 15:03:06 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  I tried editing hostname with vi, and it didn't work out too well for me
Apr 30 15:03:31 <nt4cats> Ephreet: with some more information about what "didn't work out ..." means, I may be able to help you ...
Apr 30 15:03:43 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  :)
Apr 30 15:04:18 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  I kept getting '***' is not implemented
Apr 30 15:04:18 <nt4cats> Ephreet:  I assume you remembered to set your disk as writable before you attempted to edit the file (#1 most common missed step)
Apr 30 15:04:46 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  where *** were the commands I was using to try to quit
Apr 30 15:05:00 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  negative, that's probably what's wrong
Apr 30 15:05:08 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  How do I do that?
Apr 30 15:05:23 <nt4cats> Ephreet: (no quotes) "mount -o remount,rw /" sets it to be writable
Apr 30 15:05:30 <nt4cats> ...edit the file...
Apr 30 15:05:48 <nt4cats> when you're done (no quotes) "mount -o remount,ro /" sets it back to read-only
Apr 30 15:06:02 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  It did say Readonly at the bottom but I thought a swift :w!CR would do the trick
Apr 30 15:06:22 <nt4cats> Ephreet: not if the filesystem is read-only it won't :)
Apr 30 15:08:48 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Still says 'w!CR' is not implemented
Apr 30 15:09:07 <nt4cats> Ephreet: try a gentle ":wq"
Apr 30 15:09:08 <Ephreet> I put a : in front of it
Apr 30 15:09:18 <nt4cats> Ephreet: or a subtle "ZZ"
Apr 30 15:09:33 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  /sigh
Apr 30 15:10:09 <nt4cats> Ephreet: edit your files with gentle reverence, don't pound them into submission
Apr 30 15:10:28 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Indeed... I'm a windows user, what do you expect?
Apr 30 15:12:05 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  which key lets me go down?  I know it's like ujmk are the arrow keys or something
Apr 30 15:12:13 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  silly vi
Apr 30 15:12:24 <nt4cats> Ephreet: hjkl are the movement keys
Apr 30 15:12:45 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  l down?
Apr 30 15:12:53 <nt4cats> j down, k up
Apr 30 15:13:43 <nt4cats> I'll leave it up to you to figure out, between 'h' and 'l' which one moves right vs left
Apr 30 15:14:00 <nt4cats> (note: don't look at the letter on the key, look at where it is on the keyboard)
Apr 30 15:14:00 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  doh!  What's insert a line?
Apr 30 15:14:13 <nt4cats> o (insert below) O (insert above)
Apr 30 15:14:39 <nt4cats> think of it as "{O}pen a new line"
Apr 30 15:15:21 <nt4cats> Ephreet: if you're connected in via ssh your arrow keys probably work, too, by the way.
Apr 30 15:15:56 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  I promise I'm not a n00b
Apr 30 15:16:02 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  <.<
Apr 30 15:16:27 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Do I have to restart the phone for the changes to take effect?
Apr 30 15:17:29 <nt4cats> Ephreet: to change the hostname a restart is the safest thing to do.  Strictly speaking, however, you should be able to get away with /etc/init.d/hostanme.sh start
Apr 30 15:17:40 <nt4cats> cat /etc/init.d/host
Apr 30 15:17:46 <nt4cats> oops that went in the wrong window :)
Apr 30 15:18:40 <nt4cats> Ephreet: ... I just looked, and all that does is run "hostname -F /etc/hostname", so you could just do that.
Apr 30 15:18:42 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  /etc/init.d/hostname.sh start worked
Apr 30 15:19:22 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  well that only took 2 and a half hours :)
Apr 30 15:19:52 <nt4cats> Ephreet: it "worked" -- the processes that are already running don't know about the new hostname.  It probably doesn't matter to them, but my paranoia about this sort of thing compels me to include the air quotes around "worked"
Apr 30 15:20:45 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Would you like for me to reboot just to make sure it doesn't explodE?
Apr 30 15:21:23 <nt4cats> Ephreet: don't reboot on my behalf, it is all up to you
Apr 30 15:21:56 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  I shut it down and will cold start it.
Apr 30 15:22:52 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  ew did you know that keeping the puTTY connection open prevented it from shutting down until I closed it?
Apr 30 15:24:38 <nt4cats> Ephreet: I didn't know that, no.  Interesting.
Apr 30 15:25:35 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  Well, it's still comin' up
Apr 30 15:28:27 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  well, it's alive
Apr 30 15:29:11 <nt4cats> Ephreet: http://www.kgcreative.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Its-Alive.jpg
Apr 30 15:29:33 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  =X
Apr 30 15:32:30 <nt4cats> Ephreet: ... or if you prefer, http://imgur.com/qTdSx.jpg  (pic is safe for work, school, kids, nuns, parents, etc.)
Apr 30 15:33:09 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  That is one thick coat on that cat.
Apr 30 15:39:50 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  to add this to wIRC on my pre, what's the address of this room?
Apr 30 15:40:23 <nt4cats> Ephreet: #webos-internals
Apr 30 15:41:19 <Ephreet> brb
Apr 30 15:42:02 * ka6sox shoots wIRC and buries it in a shallow grave...in the desert
Apr 30 15:43:00 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  That's what I thought but when I try to connect it just says connecting.... Disconnected over and over and over
Apr 30 15:44:38 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  I know that I don't have any types of issues with a proxy or anything.
Apr 30 15:47:01 <nt4cats|me> Ephreet: you're connecting to irc.freenode.net as your server?
Apr 30 15:47:31 <nt4cats|me> Ephreet: and then accessing the "Server messages" card and typing (no quotes) "/join #webos-internals"
Apr 30 15:47:32 <nt4cats|me> ?
Apr 30 15:47:58 <Ephreet> nt4cats|me:  /sigh
Apr 30 15:48:08 <nt4cats|me> Ephreet: and using a DIFFERENT irc nickname on your pre than you're using on your PC?
Apr 30 15:49:25 <nt4cats_wirc> nt4cats: you are a handsome man!
Apr 30 15:49:46 <nt4cats> nt4cats_wirc: thanks!  You're pretty much a hottie yourself.
Apr 30 15:49:54 <ka6sox> heh
Apr 30 15:50:55 <nt4cats> food!
Apr 30 15:51:01 <nt4cats_wirc> food!
Apr 30 15:51:09 <nt4cats> we're going to go eat lunch (together)
Apr 30 15:51:39 <Ephreet01> ...
Apr 30 15:51:53 <Ephreet01> so yeah... that worked
Apr 30 15:53:49 <Ephreet|Pre> I like this better
Apr 30 15:55:12 <preoccupied> ka6sox: how's the temp testing coming along? sorry i disappeared for a few days
Apr 30 15:55:18 <preoccupied> ka6sox: busy with exams and stuff
Apr 30 15:58:24 <ka6sox> preoccupied, understood...I've been working on it...can't get palm's feeds to work so I'm playing Quack
Apr 30 15:58:30 <ka6sox> er quake!
Apr 30 15:59:40 <Ephreet|Pre> ka6sox: like... Quake 4?
Apr 30 16:01:47 <Ephreet|Pre> can one ftp from the terminal on the preoccupied ?
Apr 30 16:02:14 <Ephreet|Pre> I meant Pre
Apr 30 16:02:32 <ka6sox-wIRC> wOOt¡
Apr 30 16:02:40 <Ephreet|Pre> ye
Apr 30 16:04:07 <hozer> anyone read the motley fool article saying HP got taken for buying palm?
Apr 30 16:04:15 <ka6sox-wIRC> okay now that it works I'll put it away before it hurts somebody
Apr 30 16:04:22 <Ephreet|Pre> btw what's too hot for the cpu?
Apr 30 16:04:43 <ka6sox> I don't like to go over 65deg
Apr 30 16:05:13 <Ephreet|Pre> okay I'm at 45 but it was yellow..
Apr 30 16:05:18 <hozer> i.e. .. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/04/29/worst-deal-ever-maybe.aspx?source=ihpsitth0000001
Apr 30 16:05:32 <ka6sox> Ephreet|Pre, ya I'm afraid thats my fault.
Apr 30 16:06:12 <Ephreet|Pre> so, can ftp be done via the cli on the pre?
Apr 30 16:06:19 <hozer> the analysis says "developers just don't love webOS the way they love iPhone OS and Android"
Apr 30 16:07:03 <ka6sox> Ephreet|Pre, hmm..lemme see if its there.
Apr 30 16:08:15 <hozer> and I'm kinda, well, this guy's obviously never talked to someone trying to do background tasks on the iphone, or tried to deploy on the 45 different variations of android out there
Apr 30 16:08:50 <ka6sox> Ephreet|Pre, not found
Apr 30 16:09:33 <ka6sox> Ephreet|Pre, its probably in Optware someplace.
Apr 30 16:09:57 <Ephreet|Pre> pity thanks for looking though
Apr 30 16:10:02 <ka6sox> hozer, we know the truth...and it has set us free.
Apr 30 16:11:10 <ka6sox> Ephreet|Pre, nope...not in optware..(thankfully)
Apr 30 16:11:35 <ka6sox> just use scp from the openSSH package.
Apr 30 16:13:46 <ka6sox> preoccupied, ah, you are on tehweb gateway...thasts why the timeouts.
Apr 30 16:14:01 <hozer> I don't know why, but I think Levano or HTC would have been disastrous for palm
Apr 30 16:14:16 <psykoz> HP is where products go to die
Apr 30 16:14:21 <preoccupied> ka6sox: haha, yeah. well, i was also in class and it just finished
Apr 30 16:14:24 <hozer> HAHAHA
Apr 30 16:14:32 <psykoz> The huge problem with HP is their CEO is a bean counter
Apr 30 16:14:37 <psykoz> you never want an accountant as your CEO
Apr 30 16:14:37 <hozer> unless you're a printer
Apr 30 16:14:43 <halfhalo_class> hah
Apr 30 16:14:43 <ka6sox> compaq didn't die.
Apr 30 16:14:44 <preoccupied> ka6sox: so i had to move to a different place
Apr 30 16:14:50 <psykoz> ka6sox, sure it did
Apr 30 16:15:03 <halfhalo_class> I'm using an hp.... footrest...
Apr 30 16:16:01 <hozer> I suppose the worst case is the hardware business dies and HP open-sources Luna
Apr 30 16:16:29 <ka6sox> back in a bit...(changing locations)
Apr 30 16:16:31 <psykoz> well a webOS tablet doesn't sound too bad
Apr 30 16:16:46 <hozer> think webOS light switches
Apr 30 16:16:58 <hozer> there is SO much potential
Apr 30 16:17:04 <halfhalo_class> webOS multitouch toaster.
Apr 30 16:17:06 <halfhalo_class>  /win
Apr 30 16:18:16 <hozer> okay, maybe not so much light switch, but replace your security system controller, thermostat, smart home controller with a multitouch webOS device that fits in a standard light switch outlet
Apr 30 16:19:10 <nt4cats> webOS multitouch  clothing
Apr 30 16:19:51 <preoccupied> i don't think HP will be too keen on the openness of webOS
Apr 30 16:19:56 <preoccupied> htat's my biggest fear
Apr 30 16:20:04 <preoccupied> they'll probably try to lock down future devices
Apr 30 16:20:23 <preoccupied> and somehow prevent patching
Apr 30 16:20:27 <hozer> they seem to have been pretty good about supporting Ubuntu on laptops
Apr 30 16:21:01 <preoccupied> but that's different
Apr 30 16:21:08 <preoccupied> people who get ubuntu typically are not newbs
Apr 30 16:21:11 <preoccupied> they know what they're doing
Apr 30 16:21:34 <preoccupied> if webos is going to become mainstream, they're gonna want to lock it down
Apr 30 16:21:59 <hozer> how does locking it down support HP selling hardware?
Apr 30 16:22:14 <hozer> I sorta get why HP wants to lock down print cartridges.
Apr 30 16:22:44 <mikewx> my company is almost entirely hp, they're hardware is no more propriatary (or less) than any other mfg
Apr 30 16:22:58 <preoccupied> well, in terms of support. companies are always afraid of people hacking their phones, breaking them and tying down their support lines
Apr 30 16:22:59 <mikewx> and it works much better than some and is better supported
Apr 30 16:23:35 <hozer> preoccupied: I think that's a myth.. and my observation of HP is they know better than to believe that
Apr 30 16:24:03 <preoccupied> hozer: i hope so. but i'm just saying, it's a strong possibility
Apr 30 16:24:28 <hozer> True.
Apr 30 16:25:30 <preoccupied> at the very least, i expect them to make it harder to overclock
Apr 30 16:26:36 <hozer> hehehehh
Apr 30 16:27:33 <jhojho> ssssh..
Apr 30 16:29:25 <mikewx> i'd rather have a phone that worked and strong 3rd party app support than the ability to overclock and muck in the kernel :) We've been a bit spoiled
Apr 30 16:29:55 <preoccupied> mikewx: i'd rather have both :)
Apr 30 16:32:19 <hozer> if HP any clue of the potential of what they bought, they understand that 3rd party app support extends to kernel modules
Apr 30 16:32:31 <hozer> which means mucking in the kernel
Apr 30 16:32:33 <mikewx> i disagree
Apr 30 16:32:43 <mikewx> but they have little choice but to leave it open anyway so you'll be happy
Apr 30 16:33:59 <hozer> I have a theory which I can't really substantiate that if you are going to do any sort of data synchronization, (say contacts, files, etc) across multiple devices, that the most power-efficient way will be with a kernel-mode filesystem module
Apr 30 16:34:23 <hozer> and any of this userspace/java/web-based stuff is going to be a battery sucker
Apr 30 16:35:53 <hozer> aka, cloud storage.. HP could pull off a seamless linux-based cloud environment without all the HTML/XML/Ajax encoding that has to be done for google or amazon type cloud services
Apr 30 16:37:13 <hozer> which leads to longer battery life on mobile devices, lower latency to the cloud, and lower power bills for the cloud data store backend
Apr 30 16:37:18 <halfhalo_class> my though out cloud storage would be that it could support any number of user run fs (including ftp/sshs/etc), while also having a palm/hp run service that could be on a subscription model
Apr 30 16:38:02 <hozer> yes
Apr 30 16:39:11 <hozer> and if someone can figure out how to actually do a disconnected, caching filessytem (OpenAFS, or NFS+CacheFS, or Tahoe-LAFS with caching), then this has the makings of a killer app/service
Apr 30 16:40:02 <hozer> and you can play games with doing this in userspace, but there has to be a solid kernel module there somewhere (FUSE might be able to do this)
Apr 30 16:41:28 <hozer> I should try getting OpenAFS to run with disconnected operation again ;)
Apr 30 16:41:37 <hozer> but right now I have other projects
Apr 30 16:46:59 <moncler> hi guys
Apr 30 16:47:20 <moncler> i have a problem with my palmPre
Apr 30 16:47:32 <halfhalo_class> mmmyyyyeessss?
Apr 30 16:48:24 <moncler> well my problem is the netstat application it doesn't run properly
Apr 30 16:48:31 <moncler> could anyone helpme
Apr 30 16:48:33 <moncler> ?
Apr 30 16:48:35 <halfhalo_class> thats... descriptive
Apr 30 16:48:42 <halfhalo_class> what exactly is the error
Apr 30 16:48:43 <nt4cats> ~ask
Apr 30 16:48:49 <nt4cats> ~asktoask
Apr 30 16:48:54 <halfhalo_class> infobot FAIL
Apr 30 16:49:01 <nt4cats> ~smack nt4cats
Apr 30 16:49:16 <halfhalo_class> he's not here....
Apr 30 16:49:32 <nt4cats> halfhalo_class: I am going to keep trying, because eventually he'll answer
Apr 30 16:49:47 <moncler> the app doesn't show the stats as it's supposed to be
Apr 30 16:50:07 <halfhalo_class> thats even more descriptive....
Apr 30 16:50:13 <halfhalo_class> is the service running?
Apr 30 16:50:28 <halfhalo_class> nt4cats: try the infobot signal
Apr 30 16:50:38 <moncler> halfhalo i dunno the code error because i'm not a pro of webos
Apr 30 16:50:39 <halfhalo_class> like the bat signal, but with more questions
Apr 30 16:50:57 <moncler> yes the daemon is running
Apr 30 16:51:43 * nt4cats shines a spotlight from the top of city hall into the night sky, and in the center of that spotlight is a tilde ... hoping that infobot will come to our aid
Apr 30 16:52:00 <moncler> and the app starts normally but it's slow and if i touch the tags of connection(wifi and so on) it doesn't show anithing just withe screen
Apr 30 16:52:13 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  What directory should my PDFs be in to be picked up by the PDF reader?
Apr 30 16:52:43 <halfhalo_class> moncler:  try reinstalling
Apr 30 16:52:56 <nt4cats> Ephreet: I haven't used the PDF reader on the Pre for anything other than e-mail attachments ... so I'm not sure.
Apr 30 16:52:57 <moncler> already done three times
Apr 30 16:53:30 <nt4cats> Ephreet: try /media/internal
Apr 30 16:53:45 <nt4cats> (or the "root" Pre when you mount it as a USB disk on your PC)
Apr 30 16:54:27 <Ephreet> nt4cats: Yep that's it
Apr 30 16:54:29 <nt4cats> Ephreet: I say this because when I opened up the pdf viewer it offered to show me "Open Source Information.pdf" -- which is in /media/internal (on the Pre's disk),
Apr 30 16:54:58 <halfhalo_class> moncler: yeah, I have no idea why.  Never have used netstat before
Apr 30 16:55:46 <moncler> is there another application that havethe same function
Apr 30 16:55:47 <moncler> ?
Apr 30 16:55:57 <halfhalo_class> ummmm..... no
Apr 30 16:56:02 <halfhalo_class> not that I know of
Apr 30 16:57:36 <moncler> oh listen it shows on day tag astrange "NaN" messageand doesen'tshows any day to reset  counters
Apr 30 16:59:23 <Ephreet> I'm lovin' my pre.
Apr 30 16:59:34 <VincentLaw> moncler: NaN = not a number, kind of an error from javascript saying that they were trying to perform math or otherwise do something with a variable that is not actually a number.
Apr 30 17:00:18 <nt4cats> Ephreet: your Pre loves you, too.
Apr 30 17:00:24 <moncler> do u know how can i solveit?
Apr 30 17:02:07 <Ephreet> nt4cats: I'm not so sure about that, I'm a Windows Admin in a Linux environment, with just enough experience in Solaris 8 to make me dangerous.  If I were it I'd be scared to death.
Apr 30 17:03:07 <moncler_> sry crashed
Apr 30 17:03:30 <nt4cats> Ephreet: sorry, I vomited a bit when you said "I'm a Windows Admin".  What was the rest of that?
Apr 30 17:03:57 <Ephreet> Hey now... Microsoft is getting better with Powershell
Apr 30 17:04:03 <Ephreet> and WMIC isn't bad
Apr 30 17:04:33 <nt4cats> ... compared to how Apple has been behaving lately, M$ seems like a cuddly teddy bear
Apr 30 17:05:29 <Ephreet> I'm a little upset by the half ass multi processing they're handing OS4 for the iPhone/iPad/ipod Touch...
Apr 30 17:06:12 <nt4cats> The outright banning of cross-platform tools is pretty criminal
Apr 30 17:06:20 <Ephreet> I just installed mIRC and when you type Ephreet: it doesn't beep anymore
Apr 30 17:06:34 <Ephreet> I wasn't going to say it... but I agree whole heartedly
Apr 30 17:07:34 <nt4cats> They try to justify it saying that apps build with cross platform tools don't look as seamless or work as well -- but if the apps suck people won't use them.  It is all lies
Apr 30 17:08:15 <nt4cats> They're trying to starve their competitors by making it too expensive for anyone to develop on any other platform
Apr 30 17:08:33 <nt4cats> ... because you HAVE to make an apple version of your app because they're the big boy
Apr 30 17:09:09 <nt4cats> ... but if you want to target any other platforms you have to build from scratch for them because Apple forces you to use their native tools only
Apr 30 17:10:39 <Ephreet> Could be their downfall if other platforms really start taking off.
Apr 30 17:10:47 * nt4cats rattles the bars of his cage
Apr 30 17:11:13 <nt4cats> The same strategy worked very well for M$ 20 years ago
Apr 30 17:11:30 <nt4cats> (or a variation on that strategy -- there it was APIs, not tools)
Apr 30 17:13:54 <Ephreet> nt4cats:  It's okay.  I did just buy an iPad, though...
Apr 30 17:14:37 <nt4cats> Ephreet: KILL IT WITH FIRE!
Apr 30 17:16:45 <jacques> Ephreet: how do you like the iPad?
Apr 30 17:17:13 <Ephreet> jacques:  Don't have it yet
Apr 30 17:17:22 <Ephreet> jacques I got the 3G one
Apr 30 17:17:50 <Ephreet> If webos would get a good realvnc app then I'd be happy
Apr 30 17:17:51 <jacques> Ephreet: cool
Apr 30 17:21:15 <zsoc_wirc> Is there a way to get an earings breakdown on a publicly traded company?
Apr 30 17:21:35 <zsoc_wirc> like see what parts of their business are making how much of their total earnings?
Apr 30 17:21:43 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: read their annual report
Apr 30 17:22:02 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: if they're public they need to have one
Apr 30 17:22:42 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: ah, annual report, ty
Apr 30 17:23:16 <nt4cats> the company's website will probably have an "investor information" link
Apr 30 17:24:29 <nt4cats> HP calls theirs "investor relations" -- their 2009 annual report is available in HTML and PDF
Apr 30 17:25:08 <zsoc_wirc> holy crap it's huge lol
Apr 30 17:25:28 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: what company are you looking at?
Apr 30 17:26:26 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: hp. I'm trying to figure out if MS. can retaliate if hp dros win7 from their portables/tablet
Apr 30 17:26:42 <zsoc_wirc> ie: how much of hps revenue is from personal computing
Apr 30 17:26:55 <zsoc_wirc> I'm guessing it's a smaller percentage, profit wise
Apr 30 17:27:06 <nt4cats> zsoc_wirc: check out the Q1 2010 results, you get a 3-month view broken down by segment and business unit
Apr 30 17:27:11 <nt4cats> http://h30261.www3.hp.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=71087&p=Revised1Q10_FinancialOverview
Apr 30 17:27:15 <zsoc_wirc> ah ty
Apr 30 17:27:17 <nt4cats> They're each one page
Apr 30 17:27:30 <nt4cats> Segment: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MzUyNTd8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1
Apr 30 17:27:43 <nt4cats> Segment / Business unit: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MzUyNTh8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1
Apr 30 17:30:18 <zsoc_wirc> hmm... very interesting
Apr 30 17:33:32 <Ephreet> I doubt very seriously HP would drop Win7.
Apr 30 17:33:54 <ka6sox> or could
Apr 30 17:34:01 <Ephreet> from their portables
Apr 30 17:34:52 <Ephreet> I don't doubt that they'll push WebOS, but the MS option will always be there (For the next several years at least)
Apr 30 17:40:59 <idontwan2know> it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that they'd abandon the slate, with nothing to replace it in the pipeline
Apr 30 17:41:45 <idontwan2know> You don't just cede the market to Apple for an entire year or more while you develop a WebOS tablet.
Apr 30 17:43:38 <chrisa> It makes sense to abandon the slate if they felt it was not up to their standards
Apr 30 17:43:41 <nt4cats> idontwan2know: I don't know anything about the product -- but if the slate stunk as-is you don't put out a crappy product as your first attempt at competition, otherwise you almost never outlive/outgrow the "slate is crap" reputation
Apr 30 17:43:57 <idontwan2know> well, that's true
Apr 30 17:43:58 <chrisa> Putting out a product you think isn't very good is a good way to get engineers to look elsewhere
Apr 30 17:44:26 * nt4cats and chrisa are going to be best friends it seems
Apr 30 17:44:54 <chrisa> I did not go to developer days. I forget why, but I think I had a good reason
Apr 30 17:44:59 <idontwan2know> I more or less assumed the slate was a competent product. But it's true that that's not  necessarily a safe assumption.
Apr 30 17:45:00 <chrisa> I should have gone to tied house
Apr 30 17:45:22 <chrisa> idontwan2know: ballmer will shout like a crazy man about anything, it's not necessarily a glowing endorsement
Apr 30 17:45:49 <nt4cats> I did not go to developer days because I live 1,233,536,345,002,333.16 miles from there
Apr 30 17:45:56 <idontwan2know> Yes.
Apr 30 17:46:18 * idontwan2know coughs Segway cough
Apr 30 17:46:25 * nt4cats has trouble with his "orders of magnitude" some days
Apr 30 17:46:33 <chrisa> heh
Apr 30 17:46:44 <chrisa> I went to hong kong for a weekend for fun a couple weeks back
Apr 30 17:47:14 <chrisa> So, traveling to the other side of the world for a short period isn't a bad thing
Apr 30 17:49:39 <nt4cats> Okay, I'm about 158,600,000 inches from there according to Wolfram Alpha
Apr 30 17:50:17 <nt4cats> 4,031,000,000 millimeters
Apr 30 17:51:45 <ka6sox> your poor body doesn't have time to deal with jetlag.
Apr 30 17:55:37 <nt4cats> It would take a cat 336 days to walk from my house to the Developer Days event according to Wolfram Alpha.  I am going to use the "cat day" (how far can a cat walk in a day) as my standard unit of measure for distance moving forward.
Apr 30 17:56:43 <phil_bw2> nt4cats, does that take into account the amount of sleep said cat will obviously be having during a day of walking?
Apr 30 17:56:54 <ka6sox> "cat naps"
Apr 30 17:58:51 <nt4cats> phil_bw2: someone on one of the interwebs said that a cat can walk 12km/day when motivated to do so.  I assume that A) everything I read on random websites is true  B) that person obviously accounted for the fact that cats only do what they want to do, so we can assume that allows for the cat to sleep, eat, break stuff, eat directly off of unguarded plates, etc.
Apr 30 17:59:30 <phil_bw2> nt4cats, sounds good enough to me
Apr 30 18:00:16 <bougyman> seems very low
Apr 30 18:00:21 <bougyman> 12km, that is.
Apr 30 18:00:30 <bougyman> i assume cats are more capable than people.
Apr 30 18:00:35 <bougyman> adn we do marathons and such.
Apr 30 18:00:49 <nt4cats> bougyman: but would a cat WANT to walk that far?
Apr 30 18:01:06 <nt4cats> bougyman: did you ever try to get a cat to do something that wasn't its idea?
Apr 30 18:01:42 <bougyman> i prefer the metric based on a practical way to get the cat to walk a consistent amount.
Apr 30 18:01:46 <bougyman> say: cat followed by pit bull.
Apr 30 18:01:53 <bougyman> i bet it could do 100 miles a day.
Apr 30 18:01:56 <bougyman> consistently.
Apr 30 18:02:07 <bougyman> allowing time for sleep and eating, of course.
Apr 30 18:04:27 <nt4cats> bougyman: and I read about the 12 km/day metric on some random website that I've never heard of (it looked a lot like an AngelFire site) -- and I always believe everything I read on the Internet.
Apr 30 18:04:50 <bougyman> i'm just bringing it down to earth
Apr 30 18:05:06 <nt4cats> bougyman: you can't argue with facts, that's all I'm saying
Apr 30 18:06:03 <nebula> going to sunnyvale the week after next, w00t
Apr 30 18:06:14 <nebula> my Boston accent is gonna be thick for them
Apr 30 18:08:29 <ka6sox> just don't "Park the car in Harvard Yard"
Apr 30 18:08:49 <nt4cats> have a wicked good trip
Apr 30 18:08:51 <nebula> oh, i'll pahk it
Apr 30 18:09:06 <nebula> i'll be sure to say wicked all the time, too
Apr 30 18:09:15 <ka6sox> ya, that too.
Apr 30 18:09:25 <nebula> just e-mailed chuq.. hopefully he can get me a tour :P
Apr 30 18:09:27 <ka6sox> my mother is from Watertown.
Apr 30 18:09:32 <nebula> nice
Apr 30 18:09:58 <chrisa> I don't think we do tours
Apr 30 18:10:01 <halfhalo_class> lies
Apr 30 18:10:03 <chrisa> We could show you the cafeteria
Apr 30 18:10:30 <nebula> oh i just wanna shake some hands
Apr 30 18:10:40 <nebula> show my respect to you guys
Apr 30 18:12:08 <nt4cats>  /msg nebula e-mail mark.hurd@hp.com, mention that you know me, and he'll hook you up.
Apr 30 18:12:10 <zsoc_wirc> I'm curious about the cafe actually
Apr 30 18:12:21 <zsoc_wirc> nt4cats: fail
Apr 30 18:12:25 <halfhalo_class> hah
Apr 30 18:12:30 <chrisa> (we don't work for hp yet)
Apr 30 18:12:36 <halfhalo_class> lies!
Apr 30 18:12:41 <halfhalo_class> your all HP sheeple!
Apr 30 18:12:48 <halfhalo_class> DONT DRINK THE COOLAID
Apr 30 18:12:54 <ka6sox> ADE
Apr 30 18:12:58 <halfhalo_class> DOWN WITH THE GOVERNMENT!
Apr 30 18:13:18 <zsoc_wirc> halfhalo_class: stop spaming
Apr 30 18:13:37 <halfhalo_class> I can't
Apr 30 18:13:41 <halfhalo_class> character flaw
Apr 30 18:13:49 <nt4cats> chrisa: I bet that if Mr. Hurd called over to Palm and asked politely if a tour could be arranged it just might happen
Apr 30 18:14:36 <halfhalo_class> ok
Apr 30 18:14:44 <halfhalo_class> forgot how to do create for rails object
Apr 30 18:14:49 * halfhalo_class feels stupid
Apr 30 18:15:14 <nebula> well, i still want to try the food in the cafeteria
Apr 30 18:15:14 * halfhalo_class feels even more stupid because he forgot an s
Apr 30 18:15:19 <halfhalo_class> the food was.... decent
Apr 30 18:15:42 <nebula> i should just walk up to the receptionist and say that i invented the internet
Apr 30 18:15:54 <halfhalo_class> Heh
Apr 30 18:16:02 <phil_bw2> she'd say "Al, go home"
Apr 30 18:16:22 <halfhalo_class> I was talking with adora and someone else and mentioned I had lockpicks with my in my backpack
Apr 30 18:16:31 <halfhalo_class> security was like WTF
Apr 30 18:17:08 <Rick_work> I never MENTION that I have lockpicks in my backpack.  Mentioning it is just dumb.
Apr 30 18:17:20 <halfhalo_class> yes, well, I do
Apr 30 18:17:26 <halfhalo_class> not the crowbar though
Apr 30 18:17:42 <Rick_work> You're still a child.  :)  In 20 or 30 years much will become clear grasshopper.
Apr 30 18:18:13 <halfhalo_class> What, I always take out the important pick and tension wrench and carry that seperatly
Apr 30 18:18:23 <halfhalo_class> AND the crowbar
Apr 30 18:19:47 * nt4cats finds that a bottle of wine will frequently unlock forbidden places
Apr 30 18:20:11 <halfhalo_class> lol
Apr 30 18:21:18 <Rick_work> There's lots of things that unlock normally forbidden places.  Did you know that you can just BUY lab coats?  it's amazing where you can walk around in a hospital if you have on scrubs and a lab coat with a pocket-protector.
Apr 30 18:23:35 <Rick_work> I'm upset.  I loaned my good set of hollow-ground screwdrivers to someone, and they LOST them.  :(
Apr 30 18:23:47 <halfhalo_class> And.... Left headphones in car
Apr 30 18:23:48 <ka6sox> wiha's?
Apr 30 18:23:57 <Rick_work> Magna-tips.
Apr 30 18:24:02 <ka6sox> oooh
Apr 30 18:24:02 <halfhalo_class> heh, my only screwdriver set was from osh for like 10 bucks
Apr 30 18:24:21 <halfhalo_class> I should get new ones, but meh
Apr 30 18:24:32 <Rick_work> A starter set of magna tips is like $70.
Apr 30 18:24:42 <halfhalo_class> yeah, my dad has a set
Apr 30 18:25:09 * nt4cats is going to catch an early train home to mow today because it is going to be wicked hot tomorrow (that was for you nebula)
Apr 30 18:25:21 <halfhalo_class> meh, trains
Apr 30 18:25:26 <nt4cats> I'll be back online in a bit
Apr 30 18:25:28 * halfhalo_class hearts his car
Apr 30 18:26:22 <Rick_work> I -hate- trying to remove slotted screws with a screwdriver that doesn't actually fit.  People don't seem to understand that there are different SIZES of slotted screw heads, just like any other kind...  and mucking up a screw is a major turn off when you go to sell an antique.
Apr 30 18:26:55 <halfhalo_class> heh
Apr 30 18:27:20 <halfhalo_class> hmmmm
Apr 30 18:27:25 <halfhalo_class> to hulu or not to hulu
Apr 30 18:27:55 <Rick_work> I wanted to start tearing down my Mosin 91/30 last night and went over to my friends, and he said "oh, I left those sommewhere.  Sorry."  -- he's going to cough up $70 or the whole friend thing becomes marginal.
Apr 30 18:28:24 <halfhalo_class> lol
Apr 30 18:31:06 <halfhalo_class> ohhhh
Apr 30 18:31:07 <halfhalo_class> house
Apr 30 18:32:50 <halfhalo_class> vmmmm
Apr 30 18:32:54 <halfhalo_class> fffff
Apr 30 18:33:10 <halfhalo_class> vm slowing hulu
Apr 30 18:39:56 <jacques> Rick_work: that sucks - extremely annoying :-\
Apr 30 18:47:37 <Rick_work> it is.  Many people think that all tools are the same.
Apr 30 18:47:51 * nt4cats just learned that the NY Mets stay in the hotel 100 yards from his office when they're in Philly.  I just saw Jose Reyes and some other guy get in a cab.
Apr 30 18:48:53 <nt4cats> the other guy was wearing a gold necklace that was as thick as my forearm and probably cost as much as my house, so I'm guessing he's a player, too
Apr 30 18:55:46 <DrFunk> can anyone tell me if this is possible on the pre
Apr 30 18:55:49 <DrFunk> http://bit.ly/9ORZKB
Apr 30 18:57:19 <nt4cats> DrFunk: I haven't come across this on the Pre -- but I seem to recall seeing that people had added pidgin plugins to the pre successfully.
Apr 30 18:57:48 <nt4cats> DrFunk: but I'm calling upon pretty fuzzy memories here
Apr 30 18:59:21 <nt4cats> DrFunk: judging by title only, this thread may be interesting to you  http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/233983-messaging-plugins-add-more-im-options-your-pre.html
Apr 30 18:59:36 <DrFunk> nt4cats: I've looked everywere have a idea what I can do for this ?
Apr 30 19:02:20 <nt4cats> DrFunk: well, there's build it yourself, contact the team that ported the other plugins and beg/bribe them to do it ...
Apr 30 19:03:14 <DrFunk> haha ur funny today nt4cats
Apr 30 19:03:40 <nt4cats> DrFunk: well, I wasn't being funny (for once), those are the options I can come up with at this point
Apr 30 19:03:52 <DrFunk> ok I understand
Apr 30 19:16:11 <jhowirc2> halo did you get any progress with getting the plus on sprint?
Apr 30 19:16:28 <en0x> what for? there will be new device
Apr 30 19:23:39 <halfhalo_class> still waiting on response
Apr 30 19:38:31 <jacques> :-\
Apr 30 19:44:42 <jhowirc2> getting the dev device on the
Apr 30 19:44:46 <jhowirc2> network
Apr 30 19:54:46 <Rick_work> jhowirc2  I have been told by the powerful powers that be at sprint that they have tightened up the loophole on that and that it is -not- happening.
Apr 30 19:55:19 <Rick_work> No technical reason, just company policy.  But it's strictly enforced company policy.
Apr 30 19:55:29 <Rick_work> as in "If we catch you you're fired."
Apr 30 19:56:05 <Rick_work> and I went as close to the top as I could get.  which was pretty close.
Apr 30 20:14:31 <jhowirc2> bummer
Apr 30 20:18:23 <Johann____> hello?
Apr 30 20:18:24 <jacques> damn carrier locked phones
Apr 30 20:19:21 <Johann____> can anyone explain why i would be getting this message with the preload installer?
Apr 30 20:19:23 <Johann____> Unable to connect to Novacom. Check driver is running. Error: java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect
Apr 30 20:20:03 <jhowirc2> too bad since they still make $$$
Apr 30 20:27:14 <beelzabub> hey guys
Apr 30 20:28:57 <halfhalo_class> hola
Apr 30 20:30:30 <halfhalo_class> This is weird not having a background
Apr 30 20:57:17 <jhojho> anyone have a mac here? is there a way to debug an installer if it fails to complete?
Apr 30 20:57:26 <jhojho> trying to install fonts on my mac and the installer says no
Apr 30 21:34:46 <yokken> tethering is such a bitch
Apr 30 21:35:03 <yokken> my phone has 3 bars yet my pc can't find google.
Apr 30 21:36:30 <idontwan2know> I have problems with the data connection going to sleep, then taking forever to wake back up
Apr 30 21:41:01 <jhojho> idontwan2know: plug it in
Apr 30 21:41:21 <jhojho> phone will not sleep the data connection if plugged into the charger
Apr 30 21:41:50 <jhojho> time to make my head hurt with applescript
Apr 30 21:47:02 <jacques> applescript still exists?
Apr 30 21:47:21 <jhojho> unfortunately yes
Apr 30 21:47:31 <jhojho> and what's worse is I have to translate a vb script into applescript
Apr 30 21:47:48 <jacques> ouch.
Apr 30 21:49:45 <idontwan2know> anybody else noticed lots of video artifacting with the ondemand governor?
Apr 30 21:52:33 <lemketron> hey jhojho
Apr 30 21:52:41 <jhojho> hey lemketron
Apr 30 21:52:42 <osi80z> what's good
Apr 30 21:53:01 <lemketron> Happy Friday!
Apr 30 21:53:16 <jhojho> not when you are editing applescript =P
Apr 30 21:53:16 <lemketron> What a crazy week.
Apr 30 21:53:53 <halfhalo_class> I bet
Apr 30 21:57:06 <jacques> idontwan2know: I have seen others mention the artifacting - I think that's why the screenstate governor was invented
Apr 30 22:01:46 <jhojho> wow. applescript is seriously painful to read
Apr 30 22:07:05 <jwm> heh lots of people love applescript
Apr 30 22:07:11 <jwm> kind of plain english :)
Apr 30 22:11:03 <jhojho> jwm: not if you are trying to extract information from an end of life product and there is like zero documentation
Apr 30 22:11:51 <jhojho> all i wanted to do was to copy the contents of one field to another but it's proving to be nightmarish since it's EXIF and IPTC
Apr 30 22:17:43 <VincentLaw> I assume a lot of people have already used govnah + uberkernel to test all sorts of things regarding ondemand governer?
Apr 30 22:17:48 <VincentLaw> particularly the flicker issue with video?
Apr 30 22:18:17 <hmagoo> did you try conservative?
Apr 30 22:18:31 <VincentLaw> no, I'm trying to get ondemand to work :P
Apr 30 22:18:58 <hmagoo> I haven't read up on the differences
Apr 30 22:19:18 <VincentLaw> although it seems conservative doesnt do it, hmm
Apr 30 22:19:26 <VincentLaw> no wait
Apr 30 22:19:28 <VincentLaw> there it goes >.>
Apr 30 22:20:22 <hmagoo> loaded videos or just youtube?
Apr 30 22:20:42 <hmagoo> hmm, just saw one with a loaded video
Apr 30 22:20:45 <VincentLaw> well youtube does it, cant remember if loaded did
Apr 30 22:21:01 <hmagoo> just one flicker
Apr 30 22:21:12 <VincentLaw> it seems to be very slow on scaling
Apr 30 22:21:17 <hmagoo> oh two.. :(
Apr 30 22:21:22 <VincentLaw> takes it a good few seconds to get up to speed for video
Apr 30 22:21:42 <hmagoo> I will probably end up doing 250-720 or 500-720 or something like that according to screen state
Apr 30 22:21:47 <hmagoo> never liked real scaling
Apr 30 22:22:37 <hmagoo> of course full speed when the screen on will be a hit with usage, but when the screen is off you usually get <2% battery drain with lower speeds
Apr 30 22:22:50 <hmagoo> and decent reception I guess
Apr 30 22:25:18 <jhojho> I have conservative, 500-720
Apr 30 22:25:36 <jhojho> sampling 1000000, up_threshold 75, down_threshold 30.
Apr 30 22:25:41 <jhojho> works well for me so far
Apr 30 22:26:12 <jhojho> 250 is marginal so it's probably better to stick with 500 for now
Apr 30 22:27:24 <jwm> so news on the next hardware to run webos
Apr 30 22:27:25 <jwm> hehe
Apr 30 22:27:29 <jwm> any^
Apr 30 23:00:58 <jhojho> reposted from #webos: I was asking this last night but didnt get a good answer, does anyone know where the browserPrefs are set post 1.3.1 (i.e. which db file)? trying to fix the google search url so that it will not redirect to localized search engine.
Apr 30 23:06:28 <jhojho> gak. so close with applescript
Apr 30 23:06:45 <jhojho> just got to figure out how not to get it to override the field and i'm done
Apr 30 23:55:40 <jhojho> it's a little hacked up but it works. yay.
Apr 30 23:59:24 <sbromwich> anyone want to test a new kernel for me?
Apr 30 23:59:26 <sbromwich> www.fop.ns.ca/pre/uImage.141-10.6_hansolo
May 01 00:07:14 <jhojho> no coz its not r2d2
May 01 00:07:54 <sbromwich> bah
May 01 00:07:57 <sbromwich> blame uNiXpSyChO
May 01 00:08:09 <phil_bw> sbromwich, you haven't run out of kernel config possibilties yet?
May 01 00:08:12 <uNiXpSyChO> r2d2 was useless
May 01 00:09:42 <jhojho> erk. missed phone call again..
May 01 00:09:47 <sbromwich> phil_bw: I'm only just scratching the surface
May 01 00:09:57 <jhojho> missed calls by the pre make me sad.
May 01 00:11:07 <phil_bw> jhojho, I had some probs with missed calls myself so I setup my google voice voicemail to not only email me but also text me so there's no way in missing that someone called me
May 01 00:14:35 <jhojho> phil_bw: that's how I know too. gvoice tells me that i have vmail.
May 01 00:16:00 <zsoc> jhojho: when jvm goes bye bye, that will become a non-issue
May 01 00:17:28 <jhojho> zsoc: one hopes
May 01 00:17:44 <zsoc> jhojho: no, it will. the things that causes those services to die will no longer exist
May 01 00:18:13 <zsoc> plus the heaps of extra memory for the new js middleware to live in
May 01 00:18:15 <jhojho> things may die in new and different ways =)
May 01 00:18:46 <zsoc> jhojho: native services don't die (unless they segfault :P), and the js middleware only pops up when it's needed
May 01 00:19:02 <zsoc> like wircd, I can never get rid of that thing ;)
May 01 00:19:35 <sbromwich> jhojho: just turn the phone off. I found that was a great way to get people to stop calling me.
May 01 00:19:45 <jhojho> lol
May 01 00:22:10 <zsoc> where's nt4cats? i have to heckle him
May 01 00:35:41 <zsoc> What does everyone suggest for shell control? To probably update/fix/git fiddle/test/debug/run/thread/give commands/and paddlewaddle/ with my app, I need 7 shells.
May 01 00:36:07 <zsoc> right now i keep the 2 local and 2 emu in 1, and the 3-4 novacom's in another (gnome-terminals, tabbed)
May 01 00:36:13 <zsoc> just curious if there could be a better solution
May 01 00:36:23 <zsoc> s/probably/properly/
May 01 00:36:35 <rwhitby> zsoc: I use iTerminal on the Mac, with tabs :)
May 01 00:36:50 <rwhitby> s/iTeminal/iTerm/
May 01 00:37:13 <zsoc> rwhitby: I guess I would just like a way to 'label' tabs, or maybe group them, in a little more GUI manner... colors or something
May 01 00:37:15 <bpadalino> interesting .. normal terminal has tabs
May 01 00:37:32 <sbromwich> zsoc: screen
May 01 00:37:55 <bpadalino> screen works too .. tons of features i never knew about until a few years ago
May 01 00:38:01 <sbromwich> also, run screen under screen by changing the control character from ctrl-a to (say) ctrl-f with screen -e^Ff
May 01 00:38:02 <bpadalino> and still only use a small handful
May 01 00:38:04 <rwhitby> yeah, screen is awecome
May 01 00:38:20 <rwhitby> awesome even
May 01 00:38:32 <bpadalino> doesn't the pre come with screen preinstalled too ?
May 01 00:38:42 <sbromwich> don't think so
May 01 00:38:50 <sbromwich> I'm pretty sure I had to install it off the preware tree
May 01 00:38:58 <zsoc> I shall look into screen
May 01 00:40:07 <bpadalino> sbromwich: check in /usr/bin/screen
May 01 00:41:22 <sbromwich> so it is... my memory must be going in my old age ;-)
May 01 00:43:45 <bpadalino> :)
May 01 00:44:42 <ChaosMarine03> Hey guys is anyone here willing to help me get rid of a service that is stuck on my pre? Its the CPUScalerUber Service and no matter what I do it will not uninstall. I've pm'ed the dev and asked for help in the thread multiple times with no reply. So do any of you linux nuts wanna help me out please? :)
May 01 00:46:02 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: uninstall with Preware or WOSQI?
May 01 00:46:40 <ChaosMarine03> @rwhitby I've tried both and get an error. Give me a sec and i'll fetch  a screen shot for you
May 01 00:48:11 <ChaosMarine03> @rwhitby here's a screenshot using WOSQI http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd178/ChaosMarine03/untitled-2.jpg
May 01 00:48:40 <bpadalino> hehe, syntax error
May 01 00:48:50 <bpadalino> looks like egg on someone's face
May 01 00:48:51 <sbromwich> oops.
May 01 00:49:06 <zsoc> AHHAHAAHAHA
May 01 00:49:09 <zsoc> I'M LAUGHING SHAMELESSLY
May 01 00:49:10 <zsoc> ahem
May 01 00:49:19 <zsoc> ChaosMarine03: yes we would be more than happy to assist you
May 01 00:49:40 <ChaosMarine03> THANK YOU. I dont know why but he has yet to fix it/respond to me
May 01 00:50:29 <zsoc> rwhitby: since we will probably be expecting this question a lot in the future, do you think it's a good idea to patch his prerm (or write a sed script) for users with this issue?
May 01 00:50:34 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: one option is to install the latest version over the top, and then try and uninstall it
May 01 00:51:46 <ChaosMarine03> @rhitby i installed the version posted on L33T's website on top of it using WOSQI and still get the same error. I think he fixed the CPUScalerRegular Service just not the Uber Service
May 01 00:51:58 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: I see
May 01 00:52:12 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: you'll need to get a command line editor on the Pre and fix the syntax error in the script
May 01 00:52:30 <ChaosMarine03> will the one in WOSQI or Terminal work?
May 01 00:52:56 <zsoc> In my experience, WOSQI command line doesn't handle anything that involves interactivity.
May 01 00:53:33 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: what is the URL to the ipkg you installed for the service?
May 01 00:53:47 <rwhitby> we can run you through the commands manually to remove it
May 01 00:54:17 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: but you must do a post on the thread providing the solution for others.  deal?
May 01 00:54:42 <ChaosMarine03> one sec im looking for the link. No problem @rwhitby
May 01 00:57:31 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: what version do you have installed?
May 01 00:58:35 <rwhitby> the prerm script for 1.1.1 looks correct.  Can you install that one and uninstall it?
May 01 00:58:49 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: http://l337tech.com/webos/apps/com.l337tech.cpuscaleruber_1.1.1_armv7.ipk
May 01 00:58:52 <ChaosMarine03> I think this is the one i used unless he has updated it since two weeks ago. Hopefully its the service and not the app. I have 1.1.1 http://l337tech.com/webos/apps/com.l337tech.cpuscaleruber_1.1.1_armv7.ipk
May 01 00:59:15 <ChaosMarine03> I mean i'll try again but it didn't work last time
May 01 01:03:05 <rwhitby> give it a try again, just to humour me :)
May 01 01:03:38 <rwhitby> if that doesn't work, make sure you have the latest version of WOSQI
May 01 01:05:18 <ChaosMarine03> well a different error window this time. http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd178/ChaosMarine03/untitled-3.jpg
May 01 01:05:54 <ChaosMarine03> latest version is 3.12 right?
May 01 01:05:57 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: I reckon that might be a WOSQI bug then
May 01 01:06:18 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: are you able to get the pmPreRemove.script contents for us?
May 01 01:06:52 <ChaosMarine03> if you can give me the commands i can :D
May 01 01:07:03 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: can you try removing it using Preware ?
May 01 01:07:23 <ChaosMarine03> yeah i'll give it a shot
May 01 01:09:12 <ChaosMarine03> well it seems that the original Preware is better at removing services than Preware Alpha or something changed because it just worked! Thanks for your help guys you're awesome!
May 01 01:09:23 <sbromwich> you're welcome! ;-)
May 01 01:10:08 <sbromwich> anyone got the hansolo kernel booted and running?
May 01 01:10:26 <bpadalino> interesting that alpha didn't work, normal does and wosqi has issues as well
May 01 01:14:04 <ChaosMarine03> yeah its strange. I didn't even think to use Preware because I was so used to using Preware Alpha because it loads the feeds faster and is overall more responsive. Well thanks again rwhitby, sbromwich, and everyone else at webos internals for the troubleshooting. Too bad im 16 and don't have a credit card to donate with. You guys are awesome keep it up!
May 01 01:15:10 <sbromwich> ChaosMarine03: don't forget to post your fix on the forum in case anyone else hits that issue :-)
May 01 01:15:38 <ChaosMarine03> will do. Cya guys.
May 01 01:15:57 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: can you reinstall the service using WOSQI and then uninstall it with WOSQI ?
May 01 01:16:13 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: that would prove whether it was just a bug in an old version of WOSQI (or even the current version) or not
May 01 01:16:21 <ChaosMarine03> hold on i'll test it out
May 01 01:16:26 <rwhitby> good man
May 01 01:16:58 <jhojho> ack. ff can't get partitioned plugins fast enuff
May 01 01:17:35 <sbromwich> jhojho: multithreaded would be nice, too
May 01 01:18:05 <jhojho> was in the middle of editing a yahoo pipe and started a different tab. got taken out by flash
May 01 01:18:13 <sbromwich> also dancing girls and beer, while we're at the pipe dream
May 01 01:18:20 <sbromwich> heh
May 01 01:18:38 <Guinness> did someone say titties and beer?
May 01 01:19:04 <ChaosMarine03> rwhitby: interesting. WOSQI uninstalled it with no problem. I guess number1pete fixed it without me knowing or something.
May 01 01:19:39 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: I suspect a bug in an old version of WOSQI, which installed a pmPreRemove.script file with a syntax error in it
May 01 01:20:05 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: check the WOSQI change log for any mention of it
May 01 01:25:03 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: thx for the post
May 01 01:26:41 <ChaosMarine03> rwhitby: anything you wanna change or add to it?
May 01 01:29:13 <rwhitby> ChaosMarine03: nope, that's perfect
May 01 01:29:33 <bpadalino> rwhitby approved post!
May 01 01:30:18 <ChaosMarine03> whoo hoo! alright thanks again. Now I'm going to go try to go figure out the UberKernal and Govnah :D wish me luck!
May 01 01:30:54 <darkf> how do you install python on the pre?
May 01 01:30:57 <zsoc> ChaosMarine03: protip: 1.) install them ;)
May 01 01:31:13 <zsoc> darkf: I suppose that depends on what you want to do with it? As a shared lib, probably through optware?
May 01 01:31:13 <rwhitby> darkf: install optware command line installer from preware, then ipkg-opt install python
May 01 01:31:35 <darkf> :) ok, you can't do it through preware?
May 01 01:31:40 <darkf> ah
May 01 01:31:40 <darkf> nvm
May 01 01:31:47 <darkf> alright thanks
May 01 01:31:52 <ChaosMarine03> thanks zsoc you're so helpful :P I meant with the different govenors and what not. Well cya everyone
May 01 01:31:57 <rwhitby> darkf: you need the command line to run python anyway right ? ;)
May 01 01:32:16 <darkf> :p
May 01 01:32:39 <darkf> now what's the best code editor? nano? ;)
May 01 01:33:03 <zsoc> darkf: the idea is, when an app is out there that depends on python, i assure you it will be available in preware :> feel free to add it in expectation
May 01 01:33:43 <darkf> problem is I want to write python scripts ;)
May 01 01:33:57 <zsoc> rwhitby: is there a reason the 'clobber' rule in widk/autobuilder doesn't also rm the associated downloads/ file? Or is there another rule I overlooked?
May 01 01:34:16 <zsoc> have to rm ../../downloads/...etc... is annoying ;)
May 01 01:35:14 <preoccupied> zsoc: hmm....tonight seems like a busy night as well :)
May 01 01:35:24 <zsoc> preoccupied: this might actually fix the problem lol
May 01 01:35:51 <preoccupied> lol, ok great
May 01 01:35:56 <zsoc> preoccupied: i'm being stubborn, and trying to annoy as many people as possible about this 'feature'.. but i've come to the conclusion that no one actually uses GLib enough for it to be maintained by anyone accessible ;)
May 01 01:36:09 <zsoc> so 'dirty hack' it is (my last commit)
May 01 01:36:17 <zsoc> if this doesn't work.. well.. it's going to get bad
May 01 01:36:31 <preoccupied> zsoc: haha, i'm glad you're really persistent
May 01 01:36:37 <preoccupied> zsoc: i'm one to use dirty hacks
May 01 01:37:06 <zsoc> preoccupied: I've put so much time into getting everything to work (which is does), /not/ being persistent with this one bug would be stupid of me ^_^
May 01 01:37:16 <zsoc> s/is/it/
May 01 01:37:17 <infobot> zsoc meant: preoccupied: I've put so much time into getting everything to work (which it does), /not/ being persistent with this one bug would be stupid of me ^_^
May 01 01:39:14 <preoccupied> zsoc: sounds good. is this the last item before a public release?
May 01 01:39:51 <zsoc> preoccupied: yes
May 01 01:40:03 <rwhitby> zsoc: the reason why clobber doesn't delete downloads is cause then you no longer have the correct source for GPL compliance
May 01 01:40:09 <zsoc> preoccupied: well, besides icon work (adding a mic of some sort to the image) and adding a 'support' stage which is just a link to the wiki
May 01 01:40:18 <rwhitby> zsoc: since it could disappear from upstream
May 01 01:40:27 <zsoc> rwhitby: interesting. good thinking :>
May 01 01:40:44 * zsoc adds a make clobber all
May 01 01:41:15 <preoccupied> zsoc: alright, sounds good. almost there :)
May 01 01:41:50 <zsoc> preoccupied: er... and changing the app name
May 01 01:42:32 <preoccupied> zsoc: lol, hmm...that should be easy. find/replace ftw
May 01 01:42:48 <zsoc> preoccupied: well the only complicated part is the decision ;)
May 01 01:43:21 <preoccupied> zsoc: yes. you wanted to go with Prelolo?
May 01 01:44:17 <zsoc> preoccupied: Yeah... 'Pre' in the name tho causes various issues. Including a tab complete problem ;) Trololo is also an option. If the icon makes it clearly obvious it's a recorder, the name shouldn't matter as much.
May 01 01:44:26 <zsoc> I mean, anything is better than "Ultimate Media Recorder" lol
May 01 01:45:04 <zsoc> Besides there's a bunch of apps with 'record' and 'recorder' in the name that don't actually record audio/video hehehe
May 01 01:45:04 <preoccupied> zsoc: that would be pulling a MS
May 01 01:45:52 <zsoc> In case anyone is wondering, Memristors are the future of technology.
May 01 01:46:31 <zsoc> 1PB of data + build in logic efficiency, and general data/gpu/cpu/ram replacement on a 1cm2 chip
May 01 01:46:49 * zsoc is glad he researched HP Labs
May 01 01:46:49 <nebula> hmm
May 01 01:47:03 <preoccupied> hmm....a quick wikipedia search brings up HP
May 01 01:47:29 <preoccupied> zsoc: haha, IC. so this might be the future of webos
May 01 01:47:45 <nebula> why did I picture a color coded diode
May 01 01:47:54 <nebula> ugh
May 01 01:49:21 <zsoc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKGhvKyjgLY&feature=related <-- if anyone has 47 minutes to spare, this is one of the best lectures/presentations about anything science/technology/physics related i've ever seen
May 01 01:50:27 <bpadalino> photonic interconnect is an interesting thing too
May 01 01:51:11 <zsoc> bpadalino: are you learned about memristors? You would find that presentation interesting. It actually has a lot of math. Even parts about logic and things.
May 01 01:51:44 <zsoc> bpadalino: honestly i was never able to wrap my head around photonic interconnect lol
May 01 01:52:00 <zsoc> all i know is, whatever replaces our current generation of technology will be out of my conceptual understanding :<
May 01 01:52:25 <bpadalino> i know about them, yes
May 01 01:52:36 <bpadalino> they still have a big hurdle left
May 01 01:56:51 <zsoc> bpadalino: which one? :)
May 01 01:59:04 <bpadalino> making them reliable and mass producible
May 01 01:59:15 <bpadalino> similar with carbon nanotubes
May 01 01:59:21 <zsoc> titanium dioxide ftw
May 01 01:59:27 <bpadalino> we can grow the crap out of them - we just can't place them exactly where we want to just yet
May 01 02:19:34 <PreGame> how do i change font settings and what not in limechat?
May 01 02:34:01 <sbromwich> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.kernel/77932
May 01 02:34:03 <sbromwich> arse.
May 01 02:34:36 <sbromwich> summary: if you want to overclock you need to boot at the highest speed you're going to overclock at or udelay is going to be off
May 01 02:35:59 <sbromwich> http://groups.google.com/group/linux.kernel/browse_thread/thread/55f7c2fc4703ec17?pli=1 also
May 01 02:41:54 <jacques> argh
May 01 02:42:25 <jacques> sounds unreasonably restrictive
May 01 02:43:57 <sbromwich> explains some of the wonkiness with the ondemand scheduler
May 01 02:55:22 <navinag> oil: Can you tell me what the save button in Govnah actually does?
May 01 02:55:34 <oil> saves :)
May 01 02:55:52 <navinag> oil: saves what to where?
May 01 02:55:55 <oil> it tells the service to set all the settings below the governor
May 01 02:56:11 <navinag> oil: does it make it sticky?
May 01 02:56:15 <oil> no
May 01 02:56:18 <navinag> ok
May 01 02:56:36 <navinag> will that bea a feature of Govnah?
May 01 02:57:13 <oil> idk
May 01 02:57:14 <navinag> I have had great success with the upthreshold set to about 50%
May 01 02:57:59 <navinag> however, after savin these I tye to use cpuscalar to stick the settings...I do not think cpuscalar uses the existing governor settings it overwrites them
May 01 02:58:28 <navinag> I suppose i can manually edit the startup event but I would rather not do that
May 01 02:58:35 * oil has no clue how cpuscaler works
May 01 02:59:16 <navinag> who is developing govnah? rwhitby?
May 01 02:59:21 <Ephreet|Pre> I wish ol' Barnes & Noble would put out their ereader software on WebOS...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 01 02:59:56 2010