**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 17 02:59:57 2010
May 17 03:00:58 <halfhalo> hachacha
May 17 03:08:29 <PrimerFender> maybe strace will help
May 17 03:10:33 <entity-> why is there still no flash
May 17 03:13:30 <PrimerFender> battery dead
May 17 03:14:41 <PrimerFender> Is it normal for lunasysmgr to clock gettime() like 50 times a second?
May 17 03:24:32 <tmzt> apparently
May 17 03:24:51 <tmzt> it also likes to read a file one character at a time according to an earlier trace
May 17 03:25:03 <tmzt> actually, gtod is very fast on linux
May 17 03:28:00 <PrimerFender> damnit, I look under a rock and there's a another world under there!
May 17 03:29:20 <bpadalino> speaking of att and 1.4.2, anyone figure out if there is a doctor for them yet and post the link up at the wiki ?
May 17 03:30:18 <RagingMind> someone on the forums posted a link
May 17 03:30:43 <RagingMind> just to www.palm.com/rom where you can enter a serial number
May 17 03:36:04 <rwhitby> http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/preplus/p142r0d05162010/attp142rod/webosdoctorp101ewwatt.jar
May 17 03:36:32 <rwhitby> that's the special '2rod' link they always give me :)
May 17 03:37:10 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: when i first started downloading roms i saw that
May 17 03:37:18 <PuffTheMagic> and wondered if they were made just for you
May 17 03:40:53 <PrimerFender> nice
May 17 03:41:45 <bpadalino> heh
May 17 04:11:42 <TheSavaLord> hi to anyone who is up
May 17 04:11:55 <rwhitby> g'day
May 17 04:12:18 <PrimerFender> howdy
May 17 04:12:23 <oil> webos-internals doesn't sleep xD
May 17 04:12:45 <TheSavaLord> yeah I hardly sleep either
May 17 04:15:03 <TheSavaLord> so who is going to switch to att. just wondering I'm going to stick with what I have
May 17 04:15:53 <PrimerFender> at&t sucks here
May 17 04:16:37 <PrimerFender> question, does webOS come with java? or is that a preware only thing?
May 17 04:16:45 <TheSavaLord> I don't feel like paying a 400 deposit
May 17 04:17:36 <TheSavaLord> I never seen java for download on preware
May 17 04:20:12 <TheSavaLord> and I have tried running some java apps on webos and they didn't run.
May 17 04:20:38 <PrimerFender> root@palm-webos-device:/var/home/root# ps -e | grep java
May 17 04:20:38 <PrimerFender>  1161 ?        00:33:22 java
May 17 04:20:56 <Spyral> I wonder if anyone at W-I has considered a dosbox app?
May 17 04:21:13 <PrimerFender> i'm assuming something uses java, just trying to figure out what
May 17 04:21:20 <TheSavaLord> well I am sure it has java but is it full featured
May 17 04:21:46 <PrimerFender> and what is using it
May 17 04:22:43 <TheSavaLord> I actually think a lot of internal features are using it
May 17 04:22:48 <jhojho_> LunaSysMgr uses java
May 17 04:24:02 <rwhitby> PrimerFender: webOS services uses Java at the moment
May 17 04:24:15 <rwhitby> some homebrew services do too (we're converting all ours to C)
May 17 04:24:42 <rwhitby> Palm includes java to support their java services.
May 17 04:25:49 <PrimerFender> and java gives a managed memory environment...as opposed to C, correct?
May 17 04:26:38 <TheSavaLord> why won't java work on some websites
May 17 04:27:06 <tmzt> java applets?
May 17 04:27:13 <TheSavaLord> yeah
May 17 04:27:18 <tmzt> I don't think they are supported at all, what websites do they work on?
May 17 04:28:11 <TheSavaLord> well I think some irc chat sites work. but like stickams java app won't run
May 17 04:30:59 <TheSavaLord> yeah I just tried the freenode i rc java client and it didn't work
May 17 04:31:40 <TheSavaLord> says it needs java 1.4.X
May 17 04:37:48 <TheSavaLord> and you can't run .jad files
May 17 04:41:57 <savalord> hello
May 17 04:42:24 <TheSavaLord> lol well found a javascript irc client
May 17 04:42:36 <PrimerFender> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Java_Services
May 17 04:54:08 <PrimerFender> Does that mean Palm makes their own Java virtual machine? Or can they compile something from Sun?
May 17 04:57:33 <bpadalino> their jvm reads bytecode compatible with a sun jvm
May 17 04:57:43 <bpadalino> you just don't get swing or awt
May 17 05:00:34 <PrimerFender> The sun one is called HotSpot, and here are some others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines <- That's a lot!
May 17 05:01:21 <bpadalino> indeed
May 17 05:01:28 <tmzt> so the browser does have java applet support?
May 17 05:01:40 <bpadalino> i doubt it
May 17 05:01:51 <bpadalino> i've never seen anything work in it
May 17 05:02:14 <bpadalino> and the jvm doesn't seem to like to want to run multiple instances of itself .. and i am not sure there is a dynamic class loader
May 17 05:02:58 <PrimerFender> yeah, I can't find any reference to it in regard to webOS/palm.
May 17 05:03:21 <bpadalino> it's one they made themselves
May 17 05:04:40 <PrimerFender> It must be (at least for now) a one-off dealio so their services have a common, segmented, environment from other parts of the os. For fast code, use native PDK C/C++ and for simple apps use Mojo (HTML, CSS, JavaScript)...
May 17 05:07:04 <PrimerFender> I'm curious if it is purely an interpreter or if it has a JIT compilier too
May 17 05:07:23 <bpadalino> rip it apart and see
May 17 05:07:33 <rwhitby> They use Oasis
May 17 05:08:58 <rwhitby> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200908.mbox/%3C200908232223.n7NMNnDb025526@d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com%3E
May 17 05:12:10 <PrimerFender> damnit.
May 17 05:14:22 <rwhitby> PrimerFender: and I wouldn't count on it always being there in the future
May 17 05:14:48 <PrimerFender> fo shizle. that's totally cool thanks
May 17 05:22:17 <TheSavaLord> actually mibbit irc works I don't know if it's java or not
May 17 05:23:57 <PrimerFender> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mibbit
May 17 05:24:04 <PrimerFender> It uses AJAX
May 17 05:24:40 <PrimerFender> but the backend is in Java :-)
May 17 05:25:03 <TheSavaLord> then the pre supports that also
May 17 05:30:12 <PrimerFender> Dalvik, the Java Virtual Machine used in Google's Android platform, use a subset of Harmony for the core of its Class Library[8]. However, Dalvik does not align to Java SE nor Java ME Class Library profiles (for example J2ME classes, AWT and Swing are not supported). Instead it uses its own library[9], built on top of a subset of Harmony.
May 17 05:33:25 <TheSavaLord> so there really is no standards
May 17 05:36:00 <PrimerFender> Well, you write the programs in Java, but instead of being compiled to regular Java byte code they go into something specific to the Dalvik VM
May 17 05:37:33 <PrimerFender> The Dalvik VM is unique because...Unlike most virtual machines and true Java VMs which are stack machines, the Dalvik VM is a register-based architecture.
May 17 05:45:11 <PrimerFender> ok, now this is just fun: root@palm-webos-device:/# javahy
May 17 05:45:11 <PrimerFender> OasisVM: Build 107
May 17 05:45:11 <PrimerFender> Copyright 2005, Iventor, Inc. All Rights Reserved
May 17 05:45:23 <PrimerFender> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/27/technology/27mercer.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
May 17 05:45:35 <PrimerFender> Now that the Z5 is about to reach the market, he is thinking about his next technology target. Mr. Mercer said he was still dreaming about a personal device that offered complete access to information and media
May 17 05:46:14 <PrimerFender> Mr. Mercer being the founder of Iventor Inc
May 17 05:47:16 <TheSavaLord> lol what does that have to do with the pre
May 17 05:48:18 <PrimerFender> http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/09/palm-hires-ex-apple-designer-puts-iphone-in-its-sights/ <-Palm hired the guy whos company made the javavm in WebOS
May 17 05:48:31 <PrimerFender> it comes full circle lol
May 17 05:49:08 <cdm> heheh -- mercer is part of the reason I ended up going to Palm.
May 17 05:49:15 <cdm> Paul is great.
May 17 05:50:00 <TheSavaLord> ohhh that was very old news
May 17 05:50:18 <PrimerFender> well it's new to me damnit ;-)
May 17 05:51:31 <cdm> Paul has since left Palm...
May 17 05:54:32 <PrimerFender> doh!
May 17 05:54:43 <PrimerFender> cdm, what do you mean going to palm?
May 17 05:55:09 <tmzt> cdm: why are services java anyway?
May 17 05:55:39 <cdm> http://scobleizer.com/2009/01/08/palm-did-what-nokia-rim-and-microsoft-couldnt-build-a-better-experience-than-apple/
May 17 05:55:45 <cdm> PrimerFender: my name is Chris
May 17 05:56:04 <cdm> tmzt: Legacy. WebOS was originally written 100% in Java.
May 17 05:56:10 <cdm> going to be a great book someday.
May 17 05:56:15 <tmzt> hah, cool
May 17 05:56:28 <tmzt> java+webkit jni?
May 17 05:56:30 <tmzt> sounds like android
May 17 05:56:41 <cdm> well, just java actually.
May 17 05:56:50 <cdm> there was webkit, but just for the browser.
May 17 05:56:54 <cdm> very much like Android.
May 17 05:57:11 <cdm> not surprising -- Mercer and Andy both where part of Danger.
May 17 05:57:28 <cdm> which is where the Java phone with custom VM was invented.
May 17 05:59:24 <cdm> Glad we are finally getting rid of it.
May 17 05:59:45 <tmzt> and the custom ipc stuff which is just a thin wrapper for dbus now?
May 17 06:00:18 <cdm> the reason we did that was so we could transition to a different system if needed.
May 17 06:00:24 <cdm> turned out to be important.
May 17 06:00:47 <tmzt> I think you and android have both had issues with input event dispatch
May 17 06:00:54 <tmzt> and you have very different solutions
May 17 06:01:37 <PrimerFender> wow.
May 17 06:02:05 <tmzt> 01:56 < cdm> there was webkit, but just for the browser.
May 17 06:02:06 <cdm> tmzt: Input events like touch panel?
May 17 06:02:09 <tmzt> just realized what that meant
May 17 06:02:23 <tmzt> yeah, I mean how input events (ts/keyboard) get to the apps
May 17 06:02:45 <tmzt> the html/webos stuff came later, apps were actually going to be java + a custom ui?
May 17 06:02:46 <cdm> ahhhh - yeah, HIDd is our baby.  It doesn't use LunaService though.
May 17 06:03:04 <cdm> tmzt: no comment
May 17 06:03:13 <cdm> you gotta wait for the book
May 17 06:03:29 <tmzt> love the name, you wouldn't believe how confused I was when I saw that and saw you had a different bt stack
May 17 06:03:58 <tmzt> sounds good, I read Piloting Palm at one point but don't remember half of it
May 17 06:05:52 <PrimerFender> I will totally buy that book, but only if it comes in an eReader for my Pre ;-)
May 17 06:06:03 <TheSavaLord> director of software at Palm?
May 17 06:07:01 <cdm> Senior Director now technically...
May 17 06:07:23 <TheSavaLord> cool
May 17 06:09:37 <TheSavaLord> I wonder if apple employees visit iphones channels/forums
May 17 06:10:08 <tmzt> no, but this Steve guy writes a lot of letters
May 17 06:10:25 <TheSavaLord> bs letters
May 17 06:10:26 <PrimerFender> HAHA especially ones where members discuss their endavours at tearing their stuff apart
May 17 06:10:28 <cdm> TheSavaLord: yes.  When we shipped iPhone a lot of us watched on the hacking channels.
May 17 06:10:30 <cdm> it was super fun.
May 17 06:10:35 <tmzt> well, I can't say no actually
May 17 06:11:10 <tmzt> I just loved how they had cocoa code SDK before Apple did
May 17 06:11:13 <cdm> the guy that wrote the pre/pixi bootloader (bootie) also wrote iBoot.  So he really got a kick watching them hack it.
May 17 06:11:17 <TheSavaLord> yeah but I doubt jobs liked the hacking sites
May 17 06:11:18 <PrimerFender> I suppose it's a form of flattery, to be that enamoured with a device, people like us have to know - HOW DOES IT WORK?!
May 17 06:11:30 <PrimerFender> And I can gurantee you it's not "magic"
May 17 06:11:32 <cdm> Johan!
May 17 06:13:05 <TheSavaLord> chris were you surprised by the march madness cellphone battle
May 17 06:13:17 <cdm> Wasn't really following it.
May 17 06:13:27 <tmzt> Droid/Pre Plus?
May 17 06:14:07 <TheSavaLord> well pre+ beat nexus 1 then a blackberry then the droid
May 17 06:14:23 <TheSavaLord> ohh and the hd2
May 17 06:14:24 <tmzt> touchscreen thing
May 17 06:16:56 <PrimerFender> Who works on Ares? That is the coolest thing ever. But I'll be damned if I can get the text from a textfield to show up in another textfield after pressing a button.
May 17 06:21:07 <TheSavaLord> has anyone here checked out tweetme
May 17 06:33:59 <geist> ah teh cdm is here
May 17 06:34:52 <TheSavaLord> yeah I been wondering if he uses twitter also lol
May 17 06:35:19 <rwhitby> you know what I hate?  ipkg files that have g+s in the tar permissions, that cause them to fail to install simply because tar can't do that on a vfat partition.  grr.
May 17 06:36:00 <jhojho_> grr indeed
May 17 06:36:13 <TheSavaLord> why do people add it
May 17 06:36:15 <rwhitby> so now we need to repackage everything on ipkg.preware.org to not do that, so we can use ApplicationInstallerUtility and not call the rescan service which blows away your phone, email and messaging windows and notifications
May 17 06:36:53 <TheSavaLord> ouch
May 17 06:37:20 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: seems that GNU tar does it by default
May 17 06:37:45 <TheSavaLord> ohh is that why when I use preware sometimes it closes out the phone app
May 17 06:37:49 <jhojho_> grr. vmware is making my laptop grind to a halt
May 17 06:37:49 <rwhitby> yup
May 17 06:38:00 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: but only the first time after a Luna Restart
May 17 06:38:20 <jhojho_> i wonder how much of a speedup switching to a ssd will be.
May 17 06:39:10 <TheSavaLord> but sometimes it closes it out even when I don't do a luna restart
May 17 06:39:12 <rwhitby> jhojho_: probably not much on a webOS device
May 17 06:39:28 <jhojho_> oh I mean my macbook
May 17 06:39:32 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: no, it does it the first time you install something *after* a luna restart
May 17 06:39:46 <rwhitby> but not the second or subsequent times
May 17 06:39:58 <rwhitby> (until you do another luna restart)
May 17 06:40:35 <rwhitby> it's the (unsupported and undocumented and we're using it at our own risk) com.palm.applicationManager/rescan service that is doing it,
May 17 06:40:59 <TheSavaLord> well I have had the phone app completely close by just running preware without installing anything
May 17 06:41:08 <rwhitby> seems that Palm no longer use it internally, and it got some bitrot going from 1.3.5 to 1.4.x
May 17 06:41:37 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: that may be the case, but if it is, then it's not this problem
May 17 06:41:55 <cdm> TheSavaLord: http://twitter.com/chrismckillop
May 17 06:42:41 <TheSavaLord> thanks cdm mine is TheSavaLord lol. had to copy keith
May 17 06:44:10 <TheSavaLord> my name is cliff
May 17 06:45:47 <TheSavaLord> nickname is 2 of my fav things together. savatage metal group and RPG/fantasy
May 17 06:46:23 <TheSavaLord> so that phone closing on preware can be a bug
May 17 06:47:22 <rwhitby> let me know if you get something repeatable
May 17 06:48:25 <PrimerFender> i was just about to say, i have never noticed that, but then again I wasn't paying attention - (I don't leave cards running if I am not using them, and I especially don't install apps while talking on the phone ;-)
May 17 06:49:01 <oil> i usually keep email open, and it would close every time
May 17 06:49:24 <rwhitby> oil: close every time you install something, or every time you run Preware?
May 17 06:49:26 <TheSavaLord> well I only found out because it took a long time to open the phone after I ran preware
May 17 06:49:38 <oil> every time rescan was ran
May 17 06:49:59 <oil> well, i would usually restart after it happened
May 17 06:50:22 <jhojho_> oh.
May 17 06:50:23 <rwhitby> right, the luna restart then triggers it again for the next rescan
May 17 06:50:34 <rwhitby> well, arms it rather than triggers it
May 17 06:50:43 <rwhitby> the rescan triggers it
May 17 06:50:49 <jhojho_> I just put two and two together and realized what you guys were talking about.
May 17 06:51:03 <jhojho_> doh.
May 17 06:51:09 <rwhitby> armed on luna restart, triggered on rescan.  not triggered on subsequent rescans unless re-armed by a luna restart
May 17 06:51:29 <TheSavaLord> so if you do a luna restart then run preware it happens
May 17 06:51:53 <oil> or restart your phone
May 17 06:52:48 <TheSavaLord> so you don't even have to install an app for it to happen
May 17 06:53:08 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: no
May 17 06:53:19 <rwhitby> running preware does not do a rescan
May 17 06:53:28 <rwhitby> hitting "Rescan" in the luna manager window in Preware does
May 17 06:53:37 <rwhitby> installing or removing a package in Preware does
May 17 06:53:43 <rwhitby> just running it does not
May 17 06:53:46 <oil> or after any install
May 17 06:53:51 <oil> it always does it
May 17 06:53:59 <rwhitby> 16:23 rwhitby: installing or removing a package in Preware does
May 17 06:54:02 <oil> even if you cancel to a luna or java restart
May 17 06:54:21 <rwhitby> yep
May 17 06:54:42 <yokken> oh hey guys
May 17 06:54:52 <yokken> so i'm trying something
May 17 06:54:59 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: I cannot reproduce any other failures outside of those specific conditions.
May 17 06:55:00 <yokken> i want to try and use doctor on the pre emulator
May 17 06:55:09 <yokken> rod! you could answer this better than anyone
May 17 06:55:16 <rwhitby> yokken: you cannot.  doctors are arm, emulator is i686
May 17 06:55:22 <yokken> ............................:(
May 17 06:55:33 <yokken> i just want to copy the files from the doctor filesystem to the emulator
May 17 06:55:46 <rwhitby> fine for javascript.  fatal for binaries
May 17 06:55:50 <yokken> well
May 17 06:55:54 <tmzt> did anybody ever get non-bootloader qemu working?
May 17 06:55:58 <yokken> hm
May 17 06:56:12 <tmzt> I know there's recent patches for Sholes/Droid
May 17 06:56:22 <yokken> so how would people run a functional webos on an x86 machine?
May 17 06:56:22 <TheSavaLord> so if I install something and do a restart luna then go back into preware then close out preware phoneapp is closed out
May 17 06:56:50 <rwhitby> the install should have closed it
May 17 06:56:58 <rwhitby> (due to this rescan bug)
May 17 06:57:06 <yokken> question, rod...
May 17 06:57:16 <yokken> say i have the i686 binaries, emulator etc etc
May 17 06:57:25 <yokken> if i copy over all the js from the doctor stuff somehow
May 17 06:57:31 <yokken> will it look and act like the legit pre?
May 17 06:57:46 <rwhitby> you won't have a matching LunaSysMgr
May 17 06:58:15 <rwhitby> so it may or may not depending on what has changed there, and it usually changes each minor webOS version
May 17 06:58:24 <yokken> is it possible to toolchain compile lunasysmgr for i686?
May 17 06:58:32 <yokken> from the doctor version
May 17 06:58:36 <yokken> lol
May 17 06:58:37 <yokken> never mind
May 17 06:58:39 <rwhitby> if you are Palm and have the source code, yes.
May 17 06:58:42 <yokken> yeah
May 17 06:58:45 <yokken> i realized that lol
May 17 06:58:46 <oil> lol
May 17 06:58:49 <jhojho_> lol
May 17 06:58:51 <TheSavaLord> I wonder when 1.4.5 is going to be out and most likely verizon will be out a month later from that
May 17 06:59:19 <jhojho_> first rule of 1.4.5 is we do not talk about 1.4.5
May 17 06:59:23 <yokken> rod, say i want to ATTEMPT to copy the js
May 17 06:59:29 <yokken> how would i go about it
May 17 06:59:33 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: I have a table related to that.  I tracked the build date vs the release date for all previous webos versions and carriers
May 17 06:59:44 <jhojho_> cp
May 17 06:59:58 <rwhitby> scp probably
May 17 07:00:06 <PrimerFender> yokken: did you see this? http://www.precentral.net/webos-and-running-pc-hardware
May 17 07:01:05 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: Verizon have previously done a 0-day build to release
May 17 07:01:30 <yokken> i did primer, that's what made me want to try this
May 17 07:01:47 <yokken> but can i just overwrite all the JS while the emu is running?
May 17 07:02:02 <TheSavaLord> from the 1.3.x to the 1.4.0
May 17 07:02:22 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: longest was 27 days for verizon
May 17 07:02:34 <rwhitby> actually telcel had a 48 day lag on 1.2.5
May 17 07:03:21 <rwhitby> yokken: it's normal linux filesystem semantics
May 17 07:03:23 <TheSavaLord> actually I just read telcel still doesn't have 1.4.1 yet
May 17 07:03:23 <yokken> is the js in /usr/palm/frameworks ?
May 17 07:03:50 <yokken> care to paraphrase these semantics? will it let me overwrite them if a binary is using them?
May 17 07:04:07 <PrimerFender> It's Monday now which means I should be asleep ;-) Good night all
May 17 07:04:13 <yokken> night night
May 17 07:04:17 <TheSavaLord> nite
May 17 07:06:21 <TheSavaLord> I'm new to the pre but a fast learner.
May 17 07:12:27 <TheSavaLord> what's special about the 1.4.2 is it because of the att apps or something more internal
May 17 07:13:04 <yokken> unzip: inflate error
May 17 07:13:08 <yokken> why is this
May 17 07:14:48 <rwhitby> TheSavaLord: no idea, no-one has done a file-level comparison yet
May 17 07:15:07 * rwhitby bbl
May 17 07:15:12 <yokken> :(
May 17 07:18:10 <tmzt> http://github.com/XVilka/qemu-droid/tree/
May 17 07:18:19 <tmzt> guess it didn't make it to the qemu list
May 17 07:20:35 <yokken> does anyone here know why cp -r would output "target is not a directory" instead of overwriting a specific file
May 17 07:21:01 <tmzt> you copied multiple files to one with -r ?
May 17 07:21:21 <yokken> no
May 17 07:21:30 <yokken> i did "cp -r frameworks/ /usr/palm"
May 17 07:21:31 <tmzt> can you paste the command line
May 17 07:21:44 <tmzt> hmm
May 17 07:21:47 <yokken> the files are all where they're supposed to be
May 17 07:21:52 <yokken> but the specific line is this:
May 17 07:21:57 <tmzt> and ls -lhd /usr/palm
May 17 07:22:12 <yokken> permissions?
May 17 07:22:26 <yokken> rwxr-xr-x
May 17 07:22:31 <yokken> root:root
May 17 07:22:35 <tmzt> no d
May 17 07:22:39 <tmzt> so it's not a directory
May 17 07:22:41 <yokken> there is a d
May 17 07:22:43 <yokken> i left it out
May 17 07:22:44 <yokken> lol
May 17 07:22:49 <yokken> i know it's a directory
May 17 07:22:59 <tmzt> strace?
May 17 07:23:10 <yokken> http://pastebin.com/0DbtNQdJ
May 17 07:23:39 <tmzt> oh, disk space probably
May 17 07:23:53 <yokken> .... i doubt it
May 17 07:24:01 <yokken> it was like 45mb uncompressed
May 17 07:24:03 <tmzt> did you paste the whole thing?
May 17 07:24:05 <yokken> all of the shit in /usr/palm
May 17 07:24:08 <yokken> that's all the errors
May 17 07:24:27 <tmzt> strace 2>out
May 17 07:25:02 <yokken> ?
May 17 07:25:03 <yokken> blank
May 17 07:25:06 <yokken> nothing comes out
May 17 07:25:20 <tmzt> strace cp -r frameworks /usr/palm/ 2>out
May 17 07:25:54 <yokken> ah lol
May 17 07:26:06 <yokken> let me just get this booted and see if anything i did worked
May 17 07:26:15 <yokken> nope :(
May 17 07:26:16 <yokken> FFFFFFF
May 17 07:26:18 <yokken> k
May 17 07:26:44 <yokken> HURR GOES
May 17 07:26:53 <yokken> ..........nothing
May 17 07:30:20 <yokken> well i give up
May 17 07:30:23 <yokken> i need to go to bed
May 17 07:30:35 <yokken> sprint store BETTER fucking have my pre when i wake up tomorrow morning
May 17 07:30:43 <yokken> effing blows not having a phone
May 17 07:33:02 <yokken> night #webos-internals
May 17 07:33:05 <yokken> thanks anyway tmzt
May 17 08:30:12 <bigjoemama1> :')
May 17 09:36:35 <VelvetEdge> I'
May 17 09:36:48 <VelvetEdge> m
May 17 09:37:14 <VelvetEdge> I'm havingtrouble finding the preware app
May 17 09:38:00 <VelvetEdge> I also can not get my palm pre to go into developer mode
May 17 09:38:33 <VelvetEdge> C
May 17 09:38:52 <VelvetEdge> can any one help?
May 17 09:53:52 <rwhitby> http://install.preware.org/
May 17 09:56:13 <jhojho_> learnt something new tonight. if you copy a folder to a directory where a folder already exists with the same name and the finder asks if you want to replace, answering yes will mean that the old folder really is replaced instead of a union of folders and files (under windows).
May 17 09:56:56 <rwhitby> yeah, that's bitten me before too
May 17 10:15:02 <jhojho_> yeah and the files lost arent in the trash folder. i.e. they are permanently gone. oh well, it was only a couple. not a big deal
May 17 10:15:07 <jhojho_> bbl
May 17 12:00:06 <damada> Hi, I'd like to update Luna Manager to version 0.0.5 which says it has the package manager dependency removed, yet it tries to install exactly this package which fails...
May 17 12:01:18 <damada> I know that Preware also includes LM but it is much quicker to have it as a stand-alone application
May 17 12:25:08 <kds_> hi
May 17 12:26:43 <rwhitby> damada: uninstall, update feeds, reinstall
May 17 12:27:02 <damada> rwhitby: tried that already
May 17 12:27:20 <damada> still the same
May 17 12:27:31 <rwhitby> dunno then - that worked for everyone else
May 17 12:27:41 <damada> :(
May 17 12:28:26 <rwhitby> are you sure you've got all testing feeds disabled and you actually updated the feeds between the uninstall and reinstall?
May 17 12:33:38 <hape> rwhitby: Welcome back, how was the wild without nwt ;-)
May 17 12:34:01 <rwhitby> awesome
May 17 12:34:21 <rwhitby> I'm glad I didn't have network access with the problems people were reporting for the app catalog ...
May 17 12:34:23 <hape> rwhitby: Any information when Metaviews caledar pacth will be in preware. I know it should be in the review pipe
May 17 12:34:38 <rwhitby> hape: dunno - you'll need to ask dBsooner
May 17 12:34:54 <hape> yeah sometimes ist fun to be without all the tecki stuff
May 17 12:35:22 <hape> right, dBsooner was my man for that. Sorry will ping him later
May 17 12:36:02 <hape> noradtux tried to complie the qt version of navit with the alpha libs
May 17 12:36:33 <hape> But we was not able to find out how to include them in the sb2 toolchain. It looks like git only has binaries.
May 17 12:36:42 <hape> #Du you ahve any infos on that?
May 17 12:38:50 <rwhitby> yes, they are built separately - see the author's blog entry on i
May 17 12:38:52 <rwhitby> t
May 17 12:44:47 <rwhitby> ok, any webOS 1.4.2 users here?
May 17 12:50:34 <tfoutz> Hello
May 17 12:52:09 <rwhitby> tfoutz: g'day
May 17 12:52:16 <rwhitby> tfoutz: now, what's happened to your device
May 17 12:52:53 <tfoutz> Not sure. After first doctoring. I went to Quick Tests. Couldn't complete and gave me a Code 3 Memory Error. Since then - stuck at boot screen
May 17 12:53:22 <en0x> [;
May 17 12:53:23 <rwhitby> what sort of device is it, and how long have you had it?
May 17 12:53:43 <tfoutz> Verizon Pre Plus. I purchased in late March, I believe.
May 17 12:54:28 <rwhitby> so the code 3 memory error came from the quick tests running in webOS ?
May 17 12:55:14 <tfoutz> Correct. After first doctoring I noticed it was sluggish and so I ran a quick test.
May 17 12:55:52 <rwhitby> so this is the first time it's been doctored since purchase?
May 17 12:56:24 <tfoutz> Also - all my apps stated "Application Download Failed". When I tried to download an app it told me I did not have enough memory when there was 12mb left
May 17 12:56:36 <rwhitby> what webOS version was it running?
May 17 12:56:44 <tfoutz> 1.4.1
May 17 12:57:07 <rwhitby> and what was the webOS version is was running before that?
May 17 12:57:17 <tfoutz> Same - 1.4.1
May 17 12:57:39 <rwhitby> was it 1.4.1 at purchase?
May 17 12:58:18 <tfoutz> No - it was 1.4.0. UPDATE- I've doctored this morning and it just came back up. However-it has failed the memory test again even though I'm back up. Something is still wrong
May 17 12:58:45 <rwhitby> tfoutz: can you get a command line on the device?
May 17 12:59:00 <tfoutz> Hmmm-not sure how to do that, Rod. Willing to try.
May 17 12:59:13 <rwhitby> what host OS do you have on your computer?
May 17 12:59:26 <tfoutz> Windows XP
May 17 12:59:46 <rwhitby> bummer.  that's the hardest one.
May 17 12:59:56 <tfoutz> :) Sorry
May 17 12:59:57 <rwhitby> ok, can you connect to the device with WOSQI 3.12 or later?
May 17 13:00:29 <rwhitby> btw, are you the nodoze author?
May 17 13:01:04 <tfoutz> Here's the problem there. When I plug in USB, I don't get the option of Media Sync, USB, Just Charge. Therefore WOSQI doesn't recognize that my device is plugged in.
May 17 13:01:12 <tfoutz> No - not the nodoze author.
May 17 13:01:53 <rwhitby> has WOSQI ever worked with that device?
May 17 13:02:09 <tfoutz> Oh yes. I've used many times for patches, apps, tweaks, etc.
May 17 13:02:22 <rwhitby> but it's stopped working since the memory error?
May 17 13:02:43 <tfoutz> Correct. Does not recognize that USB is connected
May 17 13:03:08 <rwhitby> had you installed any patches related to charging or dashboard notifications?
May 17 13:03:31 <Co2_> hey all
May 17 13:03:36 <tfoutz> Yes. I was having trouble with the Multi-Mod patch prior to doctoring. I was unable to remove it
May 17 13:04:12 <rwhitby> tfoutz: have you got all the data you need off the device yet?
May 17 13:04:24 <Co2_> I I was wondering
May 17 13:04:33 <tfoutz> @Rod - I have to join a office meeting for 30 minutes. Terribly sorry. I will be back to resume this conversation. Yes- I have retrieved all data from device
May 17 13:04:52 <Co2_> I just got preware installed last night after 2 days of troubleshooting to get it to work on windows I finally switched to kubuntu and got it in one try...
May 17 13:04:56 <rwhitby> tfoutz: it's 10:30pm here, so I may not be here.  catch me tomorrow
May 17 13:05:09 <Co2_> I was wondering if the apps for the palm pre work on the pixi?
May 17 13:05:28 <rwhitby> Co2_: most do.  Preware has separate feeds for Pre and Pixi
May 17 13:05:38 <Co2_> ok
May 17 13:05:48 <Co2_> also my themer doesnt work
May 17 13:05:51 <Co2_> so i have to use the um
May 17 13:05:54 <Co2_> alternative way
May 17 13:05:55 <rwhitby> So, no-one here with an AT&T Pre who wants to test patches?
May 17 13:05:57 <Co2_> using the package.
May 17 13:06:03 <Co2_> nah i got sprint.
May 17 13:07:00 <Co2_> well ty for the info i think ill idle here.
May 17 13:07:04 <Co2_> feels comfy
May 17 13:07:04 <Co2_> :)
May 17 13:07:48 <Co2_> oh another question
May 17 13:08:00 <Co2_> how do i get to my ssh program aka a terminal etc?
May 17 13:08:06 <Co2_> ive installed them but i dont see them
May 17 13:08:10 <Co2_> same for the developer mode button..
May 17 13:30:20 <HattCzech> ~seen Templarian
May 17 13:30:22 <infobot> templarian is currently on #webos-internals (1h 19m 30s) #webos-watercooler (1h 19m 30s), last said: 'Wrapped tons of metal into my chair and other than super glueing my hand to the chair everything went good.'.
May 17 13:32:52 <tfoutz> @Rod - I am back if you're still on.
May 17 13:33:34 <rwhitby> tfoutz: hi
May 17 13:33:47 <tfoutz> Sorry about that. Would you prefer to regroup tomorrow?
May 17 13:34:09 <rwhitby> tfoutz: if you've got all the data off, I would recommend doing a secure erase, then doctor, then try the tests again.
May 17 13:34:36 <rwhitby> (secure erase should be an option on the device, part of full erase I think)
May 17 13:34:39 <tfoutz> I did try that. I cannot erase. It goes to a grey scrim screen and locks there
May 17 13:34:52 <rwhitby> the secure erase takes forever
May 17 13:35:08 <rwhitby> (well, less than an hour I think)
May 17 13:35:11 <tfoutz> I know. I let it sit for more than an hour. no movement. does it take longer than that
May 17 13:35:32 <rwhitby> ok, all this sounds like a real flash memory error
May 17 13:35:37 <tfoutz> it looks like it cannot complete the action.
May 17 13:35:46 <rwhitby> do you have an ability to install homebrew on it>
May 17 13:35:59 <tfoutz> via preware?
May 17 13:36:04 <rwhitby> yes
May 17 13:36:16 <rwhitby> or wosqi
May 17 13:36:30 <tfoutz> I cannot connect to WOSQI to be able to install preware
May 17 13:36:50 <Templarian> HattCzech: no looking for me.
May 17 13:39:19 <rwhitby> tfoutz: if you could get a command line, we could check /var/log/messages for messages related to the memory failure. but if not, then I think it's a dead device.
May 17 13:39:46 <tfoutz> OK. Not sure how to get a command line. I'll research that.
May 17 13:40:08 <rwhitby> novaterm or wosqi or terminal
May 17 13:41:09 <HattCzech> hehehe, why not? :)
May 17 13:41:57 <HattCzech> Templarian: were you able to work on those icons?
May 17 13:43:33 <Templarian> Fine HattCzech, I'll do it at lunch.
May 17 13:43:46 <HattCzech> hehehe, thanks
May 17 13:43:50 <HattCzech> much appreciated
May 17 13:43:59 <HattCzech> i'm cleaning my code for submission
May 17 13:46:10 <Templarian> Yea, I'm having fun turning a mockup at work that was flattened into a jpeg into a site. :(
May 17 13:53:50 <Co2_> BOOYAH
May 17 13:53:56 <Co2_> linux = pwn.
May 17 15:42:47 <HattCzech> anyone around right now?
May 17 15:43:21 <HattCzech> well, specifically anyone who could answer a question about preware... like oil, perhaps?
May 17 15:44:52 <damada> HattCzech: how about just asking your question and see if someone answers?
May 17 15:45:01 <HattCzech> fair enough :)
May 17 15:45:28 <HattCzech> how would you allow a program to be globally searched like when you type "app" it shows preware and app catalog?
May 17 15:45:56 <PuffTheMagic> does anyone have a pre without mobilehotspot enabled
May 17 15:45:59 <HattCzech> since "app" isn't in the name of preware, i'm wondering how that works
May 17 15:46:22 <PuffTheMagic> HattCzech: that is easy
May 17 15:46:25 <HattCzech> PuffTheMagic: mine's not enabled right now, but it's available when i need it :)
May 17 15:46:35 <PuffTheMagic> HattCzech: not what i asked
May 17 15:46:36 <HattCzech> ahhh...?
May 17 15:46:50 <PuffTheMagic> HattCzech: its a field in appinfo.json
May 17 15:46:53 <PuffTheMagic> all the alternates
May 17 15:46:58 <PuffTheMagic> look at the appinfo for the browser
May 17 15:47:01 <PuffTheMagic> if uw ant an example
May 17 15:47:08 <HattCzech> okay cool
May 17 15:47:20 <HattCzech> i don't remember seeing that in the documentation
May 17 15:48:07 <PuffTheMagic> anyone with out mobilehotspot?
May 17 15:49:52 <HattCzech> thanks for the help, PuffTheMagic
May 17 15:56:09 <HattCzech> do localized appinfo.json files inherit the base appinfo.json?
May 17 16:36:58 <MetaView> saverestore scripts created: check
May 17 16:46:25 * phil_bw wanders by
May 17 17:41:19 <BeerSerc> Hi there. Is there a way to force the update 1.4.0 to 1.4.1? My problem is the following, I have an O2 Germany Pre, but I live in Switzerland. Does'nt matter if I put an O2 sim or my swisscom sim into the pre, Updates reports, my webos is latest version, 1.4.0.
May 17 17:47:35 <BeerSerc> Can I just run webos Doctor 1.4.1 for O2, and it upgrades?
May 17 17:48:29 <MetaView> yes
May 17 17:48:43 <MetaView> make a backup as good as possible and run the doctor
May 17 17:50:21 <BeerSerc> MetaView: thx, I'll try
May 17 17:53:31 <swisstomcat> evening
May 17 17:53:53 <phil_bw> how's it going swisstomcat?
May 17 17:54:02 <swisstomcat> good
May 17 17:54:18 <MetaView> hi
May 17 17:54:22 <phil_bw> good good
May 17 17:54:29 <swisstomcat> waiting for my app being reviewd
May 17 17:54:35 <phil_bw> which app is that?
May 17 17:54:36 <swisstomcat> hallo metaview .. long time not seen
May 17 17:54:40 <MetaView> yes
May 17 17:54:40 <swisstomcat> animal memory
May 17 17:54:44 <phil_bw> ah
May 17 17:54:57 <MetaView> my last app took almost a week for the update
May 17 17:55:17 <phil_bw> swisstomcat, did you ever imagine that your entrance into Palm WebOS development would involve so many farm animals?
May 17 17:55:22 <MetaView> I was hoping it arrives on friday but missed it, it arrived today
May 17 17:55:24 <swisstomcat> i just saw that it's published!
May 17 17:55:56 <swisstomcat> wohoo
May 17 17:56:00 <swisstomcat> that didn't take long
May 17 17:57:13 <swisstomcat> phil_bw: true .. and that it would be an app so well received (moo)
May 17 17:57:14 <HattCzech> swisstomcat: how long did your original review take?
May 17 17:57:44 <phil_bw> swisstomcat, anything that'll make an unhappy child happy is always a winner
May 17 17:57:50 <swisstomcat> yup
May 17 17:58:19 <swisstomcat> it took two days, hattczech (without the weekend days)
May 17 17:58:32 <phil_bw> I'm not really going to share much about the app i have in development but I can tell you that never in my life would I imagine making this app
May 17 17:58:33 <swisstomcat> http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.inorbit.animalmemory
May 17 17:58:34 <HattCzech> is there a way to use a function in a page when using elements from an object (#{object})? someone mentioned formatters, but can anyone give me more details?
May 17 18:40:53 <wp105> Hello all.  Anyone have time for a (hopefully quick) help request?
May 17 18:41:18 <swisstomcat> sure
May 17 18:44:18 <RMind> that was quick...
May 17 18:46:27 <uNiXpSyChO> l-user
May 17 18:50:32 <chrisa> Maybe the help request was his request
May 17 18:50:47 <swisstomcat> i see that preware 1.0.1 is out
May 17 18:52:51 <RMind> so... I think I figured out the wirc issue I had yesterday
May 17 18:53:30 <RMind> if it can't find the server it just spins forever
May 17 18:55:39 <RMind> and I found this out because when I started wirc today all my servers were missing (but the other prefs were still there) and when entering the one for my old Lug the was a typo
May 17 18:57:34 <joe_> just got preware but i have read so much stuff i am in overload..lol
May 17 18:58:19 <RMind> so now I'm stuck unable to connect to that server till I reboot
May 17 19:04:21 <bpadalino|work> heh, request for help - get an ack .. and then "Thanks, you're a lifesaver! <quit>"
May 17 19:34:25 <wp105> Hello.  I am having difficulty with the Luna Manager update.  Is anyone aware of issues occurring 5/16 and 5/17?
May 17 19:41:10 <wp105> Is anyone available to field a question on an update issue?
May 17 19:41:17 <bpadalino|work> field away ..
May 17 19:41:21 <bpadalino|work> lets see if anyone can catch
May 17 19:41:50 <wp105> Thank you - I tried to update Luna Manager through Preware, says it needs to install Package Manager Service, and hangs up there....
May 17 19:42:05 <bpadalino|work> whoops
May 17 19:42:10 <wp105> I thought Package Manager Service was rolled into the most recent Preware update.  Why would it need to reinstall?
May 17 19:42:24 <swisstomcat> i think you can ignore that dependency
May 17 19:42:33 <nightburn> wp105: Yea, im having the same problem, i don't have an answer
May 17 19:42:33 <swisstomcat> or use the luna manager built in in preware
May 17 19:42:49 <nightburn> or use jason's advanced reset options patch
May 17 19:43:13 <nightburn> a standalone copy of luna manager really isn't needed anymore.
May 17 19:44:14 <wp105> Thank you all for your input - I take it I can delete Luna Manager standalone and it will not affect the one built in preware?
May 17 19:44:54 <swisstomcat> i think so, wp105
May 17 19:45:24 <swisstomcat> because i don't have luna manager installed, just preware
May 17 19:45:32 <wp105> Thank you again swisstomcat and nightburn.  Appreciate your insight.
May 17 19:45:45 <nightburn> np
May 17 19:45:52 <swisstomcat> np
May 17 19:59:56 <PrimerFender> anyone familiar with Mojo? I have been trying (and failing) to read the value of an IntegerPicker widget :-/
May 17 20:00:08 <bpadalino|work> try #webos
May 17 20:00:09 <zigulle> hiho
May 17 20:00:14 <PrimerFender> kk
May 17 20:00:39 <swisstomcat> haha
May 17 20:00:55 <zigulle> hi, short question. How can I list all installed apps using ipkg
May 17 20:01:27 <swisstomcat> zigulle: i'd ask on #webos ;) just kidding
May 17 20:02:26 <zigulle> swisstomcat ;-)
May 17 20:02:39 <swisstomcat> do you have command-line access?
May 17 20:02:48 <zigulle> yapp
May 17 20:03:41 <swisstomcat> do you have the sdk installed?
May 17 20:04:05 <zigulle> yapp, using novaterm to connect
May 17 20:04:38 <swisstomcat> because palm-install -l lists them
May 17 20:06:36 <zigulle> thanx, that help
May 17 20:16:37 <zigulle> my problem is, that the hole time an app-update is shown, but all apps are up to date
May 17 20:18:29 <oc80z> eh
May 17 20:19:41 <tfoutz> Does anyone have any idea what a Code 3 Memory Error is and if it is recoverable?
May 17 20:20:19 <swisstomcat> where do you get that error?
May 17 20:20:35 <tfoutz> In Quick Tests. Having problems that I cannot Doctor.
May 17 20:20:39 <swisstomcat> zigulle: where are those updates shown?
May 17 20:20:48 <PrimerFender> http://insidesprintnow.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/palm-pre-quick-tests-error-code-matrix/
May 17 20:21:06 <PrimerFender> file read/write failed
May 17 20:21:32 <tfoutz> Yes, thank you. I've seen the matrix, just looking for further info to understand if it is recoverable
May 17 20:21:43 <zigulle> in the update manager -> there is an app-update but when I get the list of all apps, all uptodate.
May 17 20:22:15 <swisstomcat> that seems strange
May 17 20:22:26 <zigulle> I checked all apps listed with palm-install -l but all versions uptodate
May 17 20:25:17 <tfoutz> @PrimerFender: if a read/write has failed, can that be recovered/fixed in some way or does the phone just need to be replaced?
May 17 20:29:06 <PrimerFender> I would imagine it would depend on why it was failing. It seems to me it is specific to the onboard memory, not the RAM (as test 1 & 2 seem to be RAM specific). Are you able to read/write files from the / root file system or /media/internal ?
May 17 20:32:14 <tfoutz> I'm not sure. I apologize, but can you explain further? I know that I cannot add any apps. Tells me I don't have enough memory, when Device Info shows I have 12mb.
May 17 20:32:34 <bpadalino|work> 12MB isn't much
May 17 20:33:10 <tfoutz> Right. I have a lot of songs in there I think
May 17 20:33:37 <tfoutz> Sorry. 12 GB - not MB. My fault!!!
May 17 20:33:40 <bpadalino|work> ah!
May 17 20:33:45 <bpadalino|work> that's much more than 12MB :)
May 17 20:33:50 <tfoutz> Sorry! :(
May 17 20:34:07 <PrimerFender> Is this a Pre +?
May 17 20:34:16 <tfoutz> Yes, Verizon Pre Plus 1.4.1.1
May 17 20:35:15 <ShadeS> damnit
May 17 20:35:21 <ShadeS> i bought a palm pre hoping to unlock it the day i got it
May 17 20:35:22 <PrimerFender> Can you literrally backup everything, and delete EVERYTHING = SECURE FULL ERASE and wipe it all out?
May 17 20:35:25 <ShadeS> got it the day of the release
May 17 20:35:30 <ShadeS> still haven't done so lololol ;(
May 17 20:36:01 <tfoutz> No, I cannot. I have tried and it locks up and sits on a gray, scrim screen for more than an hour.
May 17 20:36:19 <PrimerFender> Does it mount in USB drive mode?
May 17 20:36:41 <HattCzech> sweet, looks like the appinfo inherits the original... so you don't need title, vendor, etc (unless it varies)
May 17 20:36:51 <tfoutz> When I plug in my USB to my computer, it does NOT give me the options of media sync, USB, Just Charge. It doesn't give me anything. So WOSQI doesn't recognize it's plugged in
May 17 20:37:00 <HattCzech> icon, main, and other things might need to change, though
May 17 20:39:55 <PrimerFender> You said it locks up and sits on a gray, scrim screen for more than an hour - that's when trying to do a secure erase?
May 17 20:40:10 <PrimerFender> or when trying to doctor?
May 17 20:40:32 <tfoutz> Yes, that's correct. I know a Full Erase takes a long time, but I didn't think it took that long. I have doctored it many times and bring it back up to same memory error
May 17 20:42:13 <PrimerFender> Is dev mode enabled?
May 17 20:42:31 <tfoutz> Yes - Dev Mode enabled. I read about an Alternate Recovery method at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery Will that be a way to address my problem
May 17 20:49:51 <PrimerFender> tfoutz: i was thinking this, accessing novaterm after 12 % and delete everything in the /media/internal folder
May 17 20:49:54 <PrimerFender> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover
May 17 20:50:03 <PrimerFender> but if that doesn't work, try the link you posted
May 17 20:51:43 <tfoutz> To be clear: I run Doctor and i'm able to see and edit on Novaterm after 12% and can delete files? Will it rebuild itself?
May 17 20:55:27 <PrimerFender> I have not done it myself, but that's what I would try.
May 17 20:58:10 <tfoutz> OK thanks for your help, @PrimeFender
May 17 20:59:12 <PrimerFender> let me know how it goes
May 17 21:01:50 <tfoutz> I will. Wish me luck!
May 17 21:51:13 <rwhitby> morning
May 17 21:51:22 <beelzabub> morning
May 17 21:51:41 <oilsworkn> hey
May 17 22:22:55 <HattCzech> hey rwhitby, do you have a count of all of the apps and patches?
May 17 22:23:14 <oilsworkn> 9001
May 17 22:23:46 <rwhitby> HattCzech: enable all the feeds in Preware, set the preferences right, and it will give you that number.
May 17 22:24:23 <HattCzech> okay
May 17 22:24:41 <oilsworkn> really though, both theme feeds is pointless
May 17 22:24:45 <oilsworkn> they both have the exact same feeds
May 17 22:24:51 <oilsworkn> exact same themes*
May 17 22:25:00 <rwhitby> not exact, but close enough
May 17 22:25:08 <oilsworkn> what 1% different?
May 17 22:25:08 <oilsworkn> lol
May 17 22:25:30 <rwhitby> actually, they are packaged differently, so some themes only work in the prethemer feed :)
May 17 22:25:43 <oilsworkn> regardless
May 17 22:25:49 <oilsworkn> the theme feeds weren't thought out as much as the others
May 17 22:31:03 <HattCzech> rwhitby: i was referring to download count (like you had listed in the precentral forum about the donation telethon)
May 17 22:31:45 <oilsworkn> lol
May 17 22:32:43 <HattCzech> i'm wondering how many downloads the other patches and apps have gotten
May 17 22:34:27 <rwhitby> HattCzech: oh, you want http://www.webos-internals.org/awstats/ipkg.preware.org/awstats.ipkg.preware.org.2009all.urldetail.html and http://www.webos-internals.org/awstats/ipkg.preware.org/awstats.ipkg.preware.org.2010all.urldetail.html then
May 17 22:34:52 <rwhitby> (note that the latter is not fully up to date)
May 17 22:34:58 <oilsworkn> lol
May 17 22:35:09 * oilsworkn is sad he was disqualified frmo contest
May 17 22:35:20 <dtzWill> oilsworkn: enjoy your phone :D
May 17 22:35:24 <oilsworkn> lets be honest though, all the stuff on the list was clearly developed BEFORE i got a dev pre :)
May 17 22:35:40 <oilsworkn> haha
May 17 22:36:14 * rwhitby sends oil $100 from his personal donations account, cause oil is such a good guy
May 17 22:36:37 <oilsworkn> haha
May 17 22:36:40 * oilsworkn is ok
May 17 22:36:58 * phil_bw wanders by
May 17 22:37:04 <oilsworkn> that one guy is gettin $400
May 17 22:37:08 <oilsworkn> with 4 patches in the top 10
May 17 22:37:32 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: oh, I didn't notice that.
May 17 22:37:45 * oilsworkn saw his post somewhere
May 17 22:37:52 <oilsworkn> it was either the telethon thread or the contest thread
May 17 22:38:00 <rwhitby> patches are where the money is, baby.  forget the app catalog.
May 17 22:38:21 * oilsworkn is going to get $1k from hotapps
May 17 22:38:23 <Tibfib> oilsworkn: are you sure he meant they were his patches... or that he had downloaded those 4?
May 17 22:38:23 <oilsworkn> for dotgame awesomeness
May 17 22:38:35 * Tibfib saw that post as well
May 17 22:38:40 * oilsworkn will find post
May 17 22:39:48 <HattCzech> man, i want some money to help with mine :(
May 17 22:39:50 <HattCzech> haha
May 17 22:39:55 <oilsworkn> on second read
May 17 22:39:56 <oilsworkn> http://forums.precentral.net/2457142-post15.html
May 17 22:40:04 <oilsworkn> he was talking about using the patches
May 17 22:40:27 * oilsworkn needs to learn to actually read things
May 17 22:41:16 <HattCzech> thanks, rwhitby, that was exactly what i wanted
May 17 22:41:27 <oilsworkn> ?
May 17 22:42:48 <oilsworkn> oh, the stats
May 17 22:43:41 <rwhitby> HattCzech: there is no guarantee yet that those numbers will be correct or up to date.
May 17 22:44:10 <HattCzech> fair enough, i just wanted to see if my patch was very popular
May 17 22:44:47 <oilsworkn> is it?
May 17 22:45:20 <oilsworkn> "drnull - drPodder - $100 (donated back to WebOS Internals)" lol
May 17 22:46:08 <oilsworkn> i can't believe blocked was still that high on the list
May 17 22:46:09 <oilsworkn> lol
May 17 22:47:37 <HattCzech> over 25000 downloads
May 17 22:47:39 <HattCzech> so not bad
May 17 22:47:45 <oilsworkn> its crazy
May 17 22:50:32 <HattCzech> oil, i had to add them up...
May 17 22:50:40 <HattCzech> 72529 if my math was correct
May 17 22:50:58 <ProParkour> Hello?
May 17 22:51:49 <HattCzech> close, but no $100 cigar... but it is higher than the apps (most of the top patches are)
May 17 22:52:19 <oilsworkn> apps you install once and forget about unless there is an update
May 17 22:52:30 <oilsworkn> patches you reinstall every webos release
May 17 22:52:43 <oilsworkn> they're bound to have higher numbers
May 17 22:53:38 <HattCzech> very true
May 17 22:53:52 <HattCzech> too bad it's not top 10 for each
May 17 22:53:56 <oilsworkn> unless you release an update to your app every other day or so
May 17 22:53:57 <oilsworkn> lol
May 17 22:54:05 <oilsworkn> it is top 10 for each, isn't it?
May 17 22:54:12 <oilsworkn> 10 apps, and 10 patches
May 17 22:54:17 <HattCzech> then i might be able to squeeze in because of the DNQ patches :)
May 17 22:54:30 <HattCzech> i don't know, i can't read either ;)
May 17 22:54:40 <oilsworkn> http://forums.precentral.net/2455329-post11.html
May 17 22:54:50 <HattCzech> you are correct
May 17 22:55:53 <HattCzech> well, i'm still SOL
May 17 22:56:26 <oilsworkn> maybe someone won't accept their prize and you'll get it
May 17 22:57:07 <HattCzech> or if there's some stipulation about multiple awards?
May 17 22:57:19 <HattCzech> (if those top patches have the same author)
May 17 22:57:24 <oilsworkn> whgich patch is yours?
May 17 22:57:30 <HattCzech> character counter
May 17 22:57:37 <oilsworkn> oh jeez
May 17 22:58:06 <HattCzech> i spent a week working on that when i first got my phone
May 17 22:58:14 <HattCzech> will before any real documentation was around :)
May 17 22:58:21 <HattCzech> will=well*
May 17 22:58:35 * oilsworkn has been thinking about creating his first patch
May 17 22:58:45 <oilsworkn> but im unsure if i want to get into that dirty patch business
May 17 22:58:58 <HattCzech> i would freeze my messaging app when testing, it was hilarious
May 17 22:59:07 <HattCzech> cuz i didn't have some style or declaration right
May 17 22:59:11 <oilsworkn> every patch ive wanted sofar, someone else has made it
May 17 22:59:29 <HattCzech> that just makes it easier for you :)
May 17 22:59:49 <oilsworkn> it does
May 17 22:59:50 <HattCzech> i was just irritated after switching from my treo and not having the counter
May 17 22:59:55 <oilsworkn> lol
May 17 23:00:12 <oilsworkn> doesn't it auto-cut messages if they're too long and send in 2 messages?
May 17 23:00:17 <HattCzech> yeah
May 17 23:00:21 <oilsworkn> lol
May 17 23:00:22 <HattCzech> so i knew it was already counting
May 17 23:00:39 <HattCzech> but it just wasn't showing the count for some stupid reason
May 17 23:02:37 <phil_bw> so uh, does anyone feel like helpin with me git?
May 17 23:02:51 <HattCzech> phil_bw: i've tried and failed, so i'm not the one to ask :)
May 17 23:03:04 <phil_bw> wonder if rwhitby is around
May 17 23:03:39 <rwhitby> phil_bw: gotta take kids to school now, will be around in 1h
May 17 23:03:45 <phil_bw> okee
May 17 23:04:04 <phil_bw> or I could bug dtzWill if he's around
May 17 23:04:27 <rwhitby> phil_bw: PuffTheMagic always likes to educate folks on the correct way to use git ..
May 17 23:04:36 * rwhitby bbl
May 17 23:04:40 <phil_bw> sounds good
May 17 23:05:48 <HattCzech> does the unthrottle download patch do anything?
May 17 23:05:55 <oilsworkn> yeah, puffy is git pro
May 17 23:06:53 <phil_bw> should be easy for them
May 17 23:07:07 <phil_bw> I'm not trying to get it to cook me dinner or anything... though that'd be nice
May 17 23:07:50 <oilsworkn> git dinner --cook
May 17 23:07:50 <phil_bw> hey oilsworkn where are you located again?
May 17 23:07:55 <oilsworkn> america
May 17 23:08:04 <oilsworkn> haha
May 17 23:08:06 <phil_bw> I remember you're up in WA somewhere
May 17 23:08:09 <oilsworkn> yeah
May 17 23:08:13 <oilsworkn> like the middle
May 17 23:08:28 <phil_bw> I'm going to be up in anacortes and bellingham this weekend
May 17 23:08:46 <phil_bw> oh you're over towards yakima aren't ya
May 17 23:08:51 <oilsworkn> im in yakima
May 17 23:09:19 <phil_bw> must be thinkin of someone else that's over where I'm going
May 17 23:10:20 <oilsworkn> yeah, i dont know
May 17 23:10:28 <oilsworkn> though im just over the mountain
May 17 23:13:30 <phil_bw> yeah the wife's grandma lives over there, we go there from time to time
May 17 23:17:57 <colombia> hello everyone
May 17 23:19:39 <oilsworkn> hello
May 17 23:50:44 <TheSavaLord> hiya peeps
May 17 23:58:03 <TheSavaLord> lol there is more chat late at night
May 18 00:02:08 <phil_bw> well I almost got this git stuff working (with the help of someone in #git) now I'm getting Permission denied (publickey) so I guess I wait for rwhitby
May 18 00:03:04 <rwhitby> phil_bw: which repo?
May 18 00:03:25 <phil_bw> x11/fvwm-f3
May 18 00:03:37 <rwhitby> what clone URL did you use?  (check .git/config)
May 18 00:03:39 <phil_bw> trying to do my initial upload
May 18 00:03:53 <phil_bw> I didn't use clone
May 18 00:04:44 <phil_bw> I did git init, git add ., git comit, git remote add origin git://git.webos-internals.org/x11/fvwm-f3.git, git push origin master
May 18 00:04:45 <rwhitby> oh, we create empty repos for you to clone and then add ti
May 18 00:04:46 <BeeRad> G'day mates.
May 18 00:05:12 <rwhitby> phil_bw: git@git.webos-internals.org:x11/fvwm-f3.git for write access
May 18 00:05:18 <rwhitby> hey BeeRad
May 18 00:05:48 <BeeRad> rwhitby: Hey Rod. How was the camping trip?
May 18 00:06:16 <tfoutz> @rwhitby - could we pickup where we left off on trying to address the memory error I was having on my Pre Plus? Many thanks!
May 18 00:06:44 <rwhitby> BeeRad: it was a good break, and I hear i dodged some app cat hassles by doing it too
May 18 00:06:55 <rwhitby> tfoutz: got a command line?
May 18 00:07:00 <tfoutz> Yes.
May 18 00:07:24 <tfoutz> on novaterm
May 18 00:07:25 <BeeRad> rwhitby: yes, yes you did. There was an easy work around though. Not a biggie.
May 18 00:08:00 <rwhitby> tfoutz: ok, if you run "tail -f /var/log/messages" do you get a whole lot of scrolling text as you do stuff on the device?
May 18 00:08:09 <phil_bw> rwhitby, it says "unable to chdir or not a git archive"
May 18 00:08:39 <rwhitby> phil_bw: you might want to clone that URL, then add your stuff to the cloned repo
May 18 00:08:44 <phil_bw> er wait, typo
May 18 00:09:51 <BeeRad> Has anybody created an app that flashes colors to try and unstick and stuck pixel on the screen? lol
May 18 00:10:43 <phil_bw> so if I clone the directory how can I have it clone into an existing directory?
May 18 00:11:55 <TheSavaLord> I am getting so sick and tired of the droid commercials
May 18 00:12:41 <tfoutz> No - I get a bunch of lines about palm-webos-user device.info powerd - I'm in Novaterm
May 18 00:12:46 <rwhitby> phil_bw: you cannot.  copy the files in and git add them again
May 18 00:13:11 <rwhitby> tfoutz: that's good.  now run the quick test and see if you get any lines talking about memory errors
May 18 00:14:34 <tfoutz> Yes. Same issue: Code 3 Memory Error
May 18 00:15:08 <phil_bw> rwhitby, could I create a symbolic link to the cloned directory to basically replace the config directory
May 18 00:15:09 <phil_bw> ?
May 18 00:15:31 <rwhitby> phil_bw: no
May 18 00:15:41 <rwhitby> tfoutz: any messages in novaterm?
May 18 00:15:58 <tfoutz> No messages in Novaterm after or during the Quick Test.
May 18 00:16:14 <rwhitby> tfoutz: can you open a second command line window?
May 18 00:16:15 <phil_bw> crap, maybe this isn't going to work
May 18 00:16:30 <PrimerFender> rwhitby, how long you think secure full erase will take on 16gb? I think mine took an hour or two for 8GB
May 18 00:16:46 <rwhitby> phil_bw: just clone the repo using the URL I gave you, copy your app files in, then git add, git commit, git push.
May 18 00:17:03 <rwhitby> PrimerFender: dunno
May 18 00:17:15 <tfoutz> wow - all of a sudden a ton of lines came in
May 18 00:17:36 <tfoutz> Still coming in - what should I look for???
May 18 00:20:08 <tfoutz> There's some user.warning messages for LunaSysMgr
May 18 00:20:34 <tfoutz> And user.crit for LunaSysMgr
May 18 00:25:54 <tfoutz> Void CpuShareManager - failed to open Copy Share File
May 18 00:31:06 <tfoutz> Tried to open the App Catalog and got a bunch of LunaSysMgr issues - Error: Catalog.download failed.init error
May 18 00:31:36 <rwhitby> tfoutz: you'd be looking for ones from the kernel talking about filesystem errors
May 18 00:31:54 <rwhitby> ignore the cpu share stuff
May 18 00:32:57 <rwhitby> if the kernel is not reporting errors, then there is still hope that it is some software error rather than a hardware flash memory failure
May 18 00:36:00 <tfoutz> No, Rod, I'm not seeing any kernel filesystem errors
May 18 00:43:06 <tfoutz> So whats the next steps?
May 18 00:54:06 <rwhitby> tfoutz: unless a full erase and doctor and new profile clears it, it's a warranty case.
May 18 00:55:05 <tfoutz> Let me ask you - how long should a full erase take and what should i be seeing on the phone while it's erasing? Thank you.
May 18 00:56:21 <TheSavaLord> test
May 18 00:56:39 <PrimerFender> tfoutz, I know mine took a long time, like an hour or two and that was 8GB. If you had a 16GB i would imagine it would take about twice. I would imagine...I also don't know if novaterm would spit anything out in that case either
May 18 00:57:01 <PrimerFender> like while it's running if it would update status
May 18 00:57:44 <tfoutz> Hmmm. So maybe I just didn't let it go long enough. What happens at the end of erase? Does it restart automatically or give you message that it is complete?
May 18 00:58:17 <PrimerFender> I think it restarts and takes you to activation/profile sign in screen
May 18 00:59:24 <tfoutz> OK thanks all - You guys have been a BIG help. I'll report back after a full erase. After I erase, I'll doctor it.
May 18 00:59:42 <PrimerFender> See if novaterm works while it's erasing :-)
May 18 00:59:57 <tfoutz> OK, I will.
May 18 02:29:18 <tfoutz> Well, Full Erase doesn't work. It's been sitting for 1.5 hours and nothing. It's like it can't communicate with the command "erase"
May 18 02:33:15 <tfoutz> Has anyone ever heard of Pre not being able to be erased?
May 18 02:33:37 <bpadalino> the data is too persistent ?
May 18 02:35:45 <rwhitby> tfoutz: did you say you could get the doctor to connect and start?
May 18 02:36:05 <tfoutz> Yes sir. I have doctored the phone about a half-dozen times over the last two days
May 18 02:36:51 <rwhitby> tfoutz: ok, you could use novaterm to connect to the phone command line while the doctor is running
May 18 02:37:06 <rwhitby> then you can execute linux commands to wipe everything
May 18 02:37:24 <tfoutz> Excellent. Could you walk me through that please?
May 18 02:38:12 <rwhitby> halfhalo: ping (re touchstone backs)
May 18 02:38:52 <rwhitby> tfoutz: get the doctor running, then run novaterm after the device has rebooted
May 18 02:40:26 <tfoutz> OK, got it. Then what? What should I be looking for?
May 18 02:41:15 <rwhitby> then we'll run you through the commands
May 18 02:42:42 <rwhitby> tfoutz: let me know when you have the command prompt
May 18 02:43:05 <tfoutz> should i open novaterm WHILE doctor is running?
May 18 02:43:48 <rwhitby> yes
May 18 02:45:44 <rwhitby> tfoutz: you should be able to get in around 8% or so
May 18 02:45:51 <tfoutz> Got it
May 18 02:46:43 <tfoutz> at 12%
May 18 02:46:45 <rwhitby> tfoutz: does the doctor hang, or does it complete?
May 18 02:47:07 <tfoutz> now at 14%
May 18 02:47:09 <rwhitby> tfoutz: if you run "ps -ef" a number of times, you can see the commands that the doctor is executing
May 18 02:47:29 <rwhitby> tfoutz: /sbin/trenchcoat is the flashing utility
May 18 02:47:32 <tfoutz> i'm not seeing that
May 18 02:48:07 <rwhitby> does typing "ps -ef" on the device command line do anything?
May 18 02:48:59 <geist> tfoutz: it fakes forever to erase
May 18 02:49:29 <tfoutz> OK - got lots of PID numbers after running ps -ef
May 18 02:49:59 <tfoutz> I see sbin/trenchcoat!
May 18 02:50:24 <tfoutz> at 46%
May 18 02:50:35 <geist> win!
May 18 02:50:48 <tfoutz> what should i do?
May 18 02:51:04 <rwhitby> tfoutz: watch the output of ps -ef to get familiar with what the doctor is doing
May 18 02:51:22 <rwhitby> you should see some 'tar' processes running - this is unpacking the doctor image onto your device
May 18 02:52:16 <tfoutz> I see two entries for tar zxf
May 18 02:53:16 <geist> yep. its a installin
May 18 02:53:18 <tfoutz> Am i supposed to do something with the sbin/trenchcoat
May 18 02:53:27 <geist> let it run. takes a while to install
May 18 02:53:33 <tfoutz> 64%
May 18 02:53:47 <rwhitby> tfoutz: later it will flash the modem
May 18 02:53:56 <rwhitby> tfoutz: and it will install any carrier-specific apps
May 18 02:54:18 <rwhitby> tfoutz: and finally do an md5sum verification of the install and reboot
May 18 02:54:26 <rwhitby> tfoutz: just watch it the first time round, get a feel for it.
May 18 02:54:37 <geist> become one with trenchcoat
May 18 02:54:41 <geist> let it flow
May 18 02:54:58 <tfoutz> @geist - you're cracking me up!
May 18 02:55:23 <tfoutz> I'm not sure I understand @rwhitby. You're suggesting I'm going to need to go through this process again?
May 18 02:55:31 <geist> it is the tao of trenchcoat
May 18 02:55:40 <tfoutz> 72%
May 18 02:56:07 <rwhitby> tfoutz: yeah, we just want to see if doctor completes this time, and if it hangs you'll be able to see from your continual ps -ef runnnig where it was up to
May 18 02:56:18 <rick-home> most people decide they WANT to go through the process again so that they can do even newerthings.
May 18 02:57:07 <tfoutz> 82% and nothing new on the ps -ef
May 18 02:57:30 <bpadalino> geist, are you suggesting zen trenchcoat leads to flashing bliss
May 18 02:57:38 <tfoutz> it just finished
May 18 02:57:55 <bpadalino> how voyeuristic
May 18 02:58:03 <rwhitby> tfoutz: ok, so did the doctor complete successfully?
May 18 02:58:08 <geist> well, i wrote most of it. it is the tao of geist
May 18 02:58:45 <bpadalino> zen geist leads to bliss .. sounds like a pick up line
May 18 02:58:51 <tfoutz> yes it did - in process of restarting. HOWEVER - it will hang up at Palm logo (not glowing) until I do Option-Symbol-R. then it will restart
May 18 02:59:37 <bpadalino> geist, do you own a trenchcoat of any type ?
May 18 02:59:41 <tfoutz> Last entry on ps -ef was /bin/sh -1
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 18 02:59:57 2010