**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 21 02:59:57 2010 May 21 03:13:20 uberkernel 1.4.2 in the kernels-testing feed May 21 03:13:44 Sexy May 21 03:17:06 rwhitby, what is the url for the kernels-testing feed? May 21 03:18:30 1.4.5 is coming out soon, eh? May 21 03:23:11 UberKernel 1.4.2 seems to work May 21 03:23:18 pushing to autobuilder for public feed May 21 03:24:25 * rwhitby bbl (lunch) May 21 03:50:01 UberKernel 1.4.2 released to public feed May 21 03:50:06 JackieRipper: can you test please? May 21 04:10:14 hey guys so i saw the posts on the webos-internals twitter about 1.4.2 so i was like "ooh new firmware" and went to Update and it's telling me it's gonna download 1.4.1.1 even though i already have it. kernel problem? May 21 04:10:29 i really don't want to have to redownload all my patches AGAIN :( May 21 04:10:58 if preware alpha has a queue in it then i'm fine... but otherwise, what do i do? May 21 04:11:08 chmod -x UpdateDaemon ? May 21 04:11:09 or what May 21 04:13:35 here's a list of things changed in palms patch to webkit https://pastee.org/h62tj I cant seem to find the patches to v8 May 21 04:14:02 i thought it already ran on v8 May 21 04:14:15 and it does not look like the sources/patches to v8 are published. May 21 04:14:19 it does May 21 04:14:25 doesn't chromium run on v8...? May 21 04:14:53 I was taking a look to see if there were any clues as to how palm was integrating v8 into their browser May 21 04:14:58 whatever i obviously have no idea what i'm talking about May 21 04:15:23 it just doesn't make sense to me that you would have any files named v8 May 21 04:15:27 or anything with v8 in it May 21 04:15:46 it's a javascript parsing/rendering engine, it would just be in that specific version of webkit May 21 04:16:10 webkit does not ship with v8 May 21 04:16:11 yokken: do you have an AT&T Pre Plus? if not, then 1.4.2 is not available for you. May 21 04:16:17 v8 sources are separate May 21 04:16:24 no, pre on sprint. :( May 21 04:16:29 there is a /usr/lib/libv8.so May 21 04:16:45 but no clear if that's a straight dropin May 21 04:16:50 s/no/not/ May 21 04:16:50 jhojho meant: but not clear if that's a straight dropin May 21 04:16:52 so rwhitby, if i already have 1.4.1.1 on my device and it wants to update to 1.4.1.1... what should i do May 21 04:17:00 panic May 21 04:17:07 ha ha May 21 04:17:36 is UpdateDaemon in /usr/bin? May 21 04:17:39 or sbin May 21 04:17:42 has to be sbin May 21 04:18:28 NOPE May 21 04:19:51 drat ubuntu hardy's version of scons it too old May 21 04:20:01 s/it/is/ May 21 04:20:03 jhojho meant: drat ubuntu hardy's version of scons is too old May 21 04:20:06 cant type today May 21 04:20:11 HA HA May 21 04:20:14 GET OWNED UPDATEDAEMON May 21 04:20:15 HA May 21 04:20:32 i don't know why anyone *serious* about linux would ever use ubuntu May 21 04:25:52 yokken: Because it works, it's reliable, and it serves as a more up to date version of Debian then any stable release without the issues you find running testing or sid. May 21 04:26:11 i just got told May 21 04:26:31 still, dunno why you wouldn't use slackware or something May 21 04:26:53 Because I want an actually _functional_ package management system, one that works, and works well. May 21 04:27:03 so yokken, u on a Sprint Pre 1.4.1.1, installed the latest UK and now its asking you to updeate to 1.4.1.1 again from Palm? May 21 04:27:20 i'm in the US. May 21 04:27:20 gentoo looks interesting, but I'm less interested in recompiling absolutely everything then some. May 21 04:27:26 UK? May 21 04:27:30 oh uberkernel May 21 04:27:41 i installed it like 2 days ago May 21 04:28:02 Mercury: compile your own shit, package management is for wussies May 21 04:28:40 http://funroll-loops.info/ May 21 04:28:40 yokken: Then I'm a wuss, I've only been doing this for over a decade. May 21 04:30:02 DAMN RIGHT May 21 04:30:29 i think i got introduced to linux 10 years ago... 9 years old, a dad that's a sysadmin... i think that's about right May 21 04:30:42 but that's irrelevant May 21 04:31:42 ka6sox: Yeah, that sounds about right. May 21 04:31:51 I remember GNOME 1.2 ;) May 21 04:31:52 gentoo stole their build system from BSD. May 21 04:32:17 ka6sox: Of course, a whole bunch of the arguments for gentoo fall apart when you're not running x86 but instead x86_64/amd64. May 21 04:32:46 lol May 21 04:32:51 or ARM. May 21 04:32:56 Yep. May 21 04:33:15 64bit machines don't gain much in performance from gentoo? May 21 04:33:35 64 bit doesn't = performance May 21 04:33:41 it ususally just = more ram usage. May 21 04:33:45 yeah May 21 04:33:53 also that site is hilarious May 21 04:34:00 the orange ricer on the right May 21 04:34:09 spoiler on the roof May 21 04:34:13 funny stuff May 21 04:34:48 what? you mean it doesn't make it go faster/ May 21 04:34:56 ? May 21 04:35:06 64bit or a spoiler on a roof May 21 04:35:17 yes May 21 04:35:22 WHICH ONE May 21 04:35:24 lol May 21 04:35:40 yokken: Well, the difference in optimization settings for the very first amd64 chip and the current 64bit chips isn't nearly as impressive as the difference between compiling for a 386 and something modern, or even a pentium and something modern. May 21 04:35:59 difference between 386 and 686, for example? May 21 04:36:21 what IS the whole 386/486/686 BS anyway? May 21 04:36:28 i've never understood what those generations meant May 21 04:36:34 i've never bothered to look it up May 21 04:37:22 those are modern processors. May 21 04:37:53 even 386? May 21 04:38:07 oh yeah May 21 04:38:13 explain May 21 04:38:22 look up Intel 4004 May 21 04:38:55 ALTAIR 8800 May 21 04:38:56 WOOOO May 21 04:39:17 okay well 1974 is obviously old as fuck May 21 04:39:33 i'm talking from like the 90s to now May 21 04:39:36 heh...some of graduated from High School then. May 21 04:39:37 isn't a 386 an old processor May 21 04:39:59 yeah, 1985 May 21 04:41:29 i986 is where it's at May 21 04:41:35 nehalem-based processors May 21 04:42:00 the i3 is crazy fast for being a budget processor, a "low-end" processor May 21 04:42:40 wow new instruction set in the 32nm westmeres, makes AES encryption/decryption 3x faster May 21 04:42:42 WOW May 21 04:46:08 sigh... the sandy bridge, after westmeres, new socket type... can't intel manage to make 2 processor generations with the SAME socket type? May 21 04:46:20 LGA775 was relevant for like 3 years at LEAST May 21 04:46:31 now 1366 is already out of the picture May 21 04:46:37 1156 is "new" May 21 04:46:50 it'll be 1356 and 1155 May 21 04:47:11 http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8em/pdp8em.shtml << thats a real computer. May 21 04:47:32 So, anyone on AT&T tested the new UberKernel yet? May 21 04:47:52 wow ka6sox May 21 04:48:11 1st computer I had operator priveleges on May 21 04:50:23 we had up to 8 users at a time on it. May 21 04:51:27 man you're old May 21 04:51:50 nothing bad about that but just, wow. May 21 04:53:55 we did a LOT with just 8-bits/1.023Mhz/64K RAM/ 64K Rom. May 21 04:54:11 ka6sox: I thought I was old for starting on a Apple II+. Thanks. May 21 04:54:43 ka6sox is even older than me I think May 21 04:54:52 ^^ Description of an Apple II+ May 21 04:55:16 rwhitby, might be! May 21 04:55:21 ka6sox: yeah, an Apple II++ is about that. Slightly, very slightly, faster in the MHz department and smaller in the ROM department. May 21 04:55:40 all you'll ever need is 640K. May 21 04:55:41 Apple II+ had 16k ROM May 21 04:55:44 that's more than you'll ever need. May 21 04:56:02 hey, that's ten times an Apple II+ with a language card. May 21 04:56:17 to be honest May 21 04:56:19 though there were aftermarket solutions to add more RAM. May 21 04:56:21 I thought the "Language" card had room for 8 8K roms? May 21 04:56:30 i'm glad the computer industry isn't overzealous about the years to come May 21 04:57:07 like "IN 10 YEARS WE'LL ALREADY HAVE CHIPS IN OUR BRAINS" May 21 04:57:10 ka6sox: the Language card had RAM, and you loaded it into it's 16k of bank-switched RAM. (I think it was 12k of memory mapped space, my memory could be mistaken though.) May 21 04:57:32 EdLin, ewww...sliding windows into more RAM. UGLY form of MMU... May 21 04:57:43 the 6809E was famous for that UGLY MMU> May 21 04:57:49 ka6sox: it worked via a soft-switch. May 21 04:58:07 still windowed the additional ram. May 21 04:58:18 ka6sox: not any more ugly than an 8088's segmented RAM really. May 21 04:58:34 true... May 21 04:58:38 i really just want to be able to take pictures from my eyes May 21 04:58:42 hence the term "Seg Fault" May 21 04:59:22 ka6sox: yeah, but these didn't have operating systems that would follow that with a core dump. ;-) May 21 04:59:57 my AT&T 7300 would do that...BARF.....2MB of Core Dump. May 21 05:00:36 ka6sox: yeah, core dumps would be kind of unbearable now, with 2GB of RAM or more. May 21 05:02:02 now we have HH devices with 512MB of RAM and not enough flash for even 1 Core Dump. May 21 05:02:04 ka6sox: what I was pointing out was that with those OSs, if you had a segfault, it was time to hit the big red switch. May 21 05:02:30 true. May 21 05:02:54 I think its funny now how everybody is soooo jazzed about VMs..... May 21 05:02:56 I'm not sure if AppleDOS 3.3 would even qualify as an OS, it was really just an object loader. May 21 05:03:06 MSDOS also May 21 05:04:07 ka6sox: VMs are old technology, IBM invented it in the late 60s. May 21 05:04:22 ka6sox: they just are new to micros. :) May 21 05:04:34 yes, we had them on a 370/145 May 21 05:04:59 the 1MB of RAM lived in a box on a cart outside the CPU Cabinet. May 21 05:05:17 with ribbon cables connected to it. May 21 05:05:27 today's Z-Series are just those 360s and 370s evolved you know. May 21 05:06:11 they can still run stuff made for the Apollo mission, on today's hardware. May 21 05:06:27 without a recompile May 21 05:06:55 wow May 21 05:07:09 i heard they accidentally the plans for the saturn 5 rocket May 21 05:07:56 accidentally erased you mean? May 21 05:08:03 no, accidentally May 21 05:08:20 * yokken trolls May 21 05:08:38 it's a meme... from 4chan... which i'm assuming you're too old to enjoy now May 21 05:08:47 if you started on an apple ii May 21 05:09:14 4chan isn't enjoyed, it's tramatically encountered. May 21 05:09:28 you are the plague of the internet May 21 05:09:37 "GO BACK TO YOUR CAVE, TROLL" May 21 05:09:41 4chan is hilarious May 21 05:09:48 you have to realize that the entire thing is one big joke May 21 05:10:18 some people have an odd sense of humor. :P May 21 05:10:35 some people need to get the sand out of their underwear :P May 21 05:11:10 I probably get some of the memes of 4chan on slashdot, that's more than enough for me. ;-) May 21 05:11:52 "i accidentally 46gb guys" May 21 05:11:54 "is this bad?" May 21 05:12:15 i accidentally the internet May 21 05:12:55 http://encyclopediadramatica.com/I_accidentally_X May 21 05:13:19 http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/2d/AccidentallyEconomy.jpg May 21 05:13:27 * ka6sox gets back to real work...fixing the internet. May 21 05:13:49 (or at least my little corner of it) May 21 05:31:13 ka6sox, are you married? May 21 05:31:30 yep...forever it seems. May 21 05:31:47 how on earth did you get far enough to take the plunge May 21 05:31:58 wha? May 21 05:32:10 it's been 10 and a half months with my girlfriend and she's bugging the hell out of me May 21 05:32:20 we're definitely out of the honeymoon stage of our relationship May 21 05:32:40 like how did you personally stay interested for so long May 21 05:32:59 rwhitby, unless I have the wrong url, I'm not seeing UberKernel 1.4.2 May 21 05:33:14 cause shit has got to change with my girlfriend or i don't see us getting married May 21 05:33:44 did you just tell your wife (before marriage) that some things had to change if you wanted to stay together? May 21 05:33:52 nope May 21 05:33:57 what the hell May 21 05:33:58 then how May 21 05:34:17 not EVERY person married had a flawless "omfg i love you so much" relationship for 3-4 years before getting married May 21 05:34:34 yep May 21 05:34:59 well then how May 21 05:35:15 i need relationship advice from successful people that i will probably be in 10-20 years May 21 05:36:17 You have a LOT of life ahead of you...don't rush it. May 21 05:37:57 hello................ May 21 05:38:02 regardless May 21 05:38:10 care to tell me your secrets? May 21 05:38:16 lol May 21 05:38:20 obviously it wasn't amazing 24/7 May 21 05:38:27 do u know bout preware? May 21 05:38:30 no May 21 05:38:31 what is it May 21 05:38:35 lol May 21 05:38:38 a little bit...I've seen it once. May 21 05:38:44 i heard about it May 21 05:38:55 isn't it something the nsa is working on May 21 05:38:57 oh i cant install it on my phone May 21 05:39:03 holy shit how did you get it May 21 05:39:20 * yokken is done May 21 05:39:22 Javi, how are you attempting to install it? May 21 05:39:26 yes May 21 05:39:30 http://i.imgur.com/tUF4J.jpg May 21 05:39:38 i had it before and my phone reset and now i cant May 21 05:39:43 you can go to work at target pretty effing drunk May 21 05:40:11 hahaha May 21 05:40:46 also typo lulz May 21 05:40:54 alochol!!! May 21 05:46:47 yokken: LOL May 21 05:59:15 lol dtzWill May 21 05:59:19 you like that May 21 06:15:10 wow, dead tonight... May 21 06:18:22 hello!is anybody here? May 21 06:18:40 semi-sorta May 21 06:19:16 wazzup? May 21 06:19:34 yeahhhhhhhhh wooooooo!!!!! people! May 21 06:20:22 hello May 21 06:22:56 hello...as the "whos" Said...We are HERE! May 21 06:25:07 sorry. I need help for some information about the stagecontroller's method --- deactivate. May 21 06:25:16 sorry for my poor english May 21 06:25:45 I'm afraid I don't use that one. so I'm no help :( May 21 06:26:48 thanks all the same May 21 06:27:00 where in the EU are you, sweden? May 21 06:48:28 yokken: sure would explain many of my target experiences....... :P May 21 06:48:45 lol i used to work there May 21 06:48:49 i hated it May 21 06:49:15 maybe if you'd read the fine print closer you'd've enjoyed it more :) May 21 06:49:59 lol May 21 06:50:03 i don't like being drunk May 21 06:50:15 i've been .20 before, PROBABLY higher but hadn't been tested May 21 06:50:22 .20 with 3mg of lorazepam in me too :S May 21 06:52:13 ya i'd say you overdid that one :) May 21 06:54:40 yeah May 21 06:54:42 i'd say so too May 21 06:54:46 i didn't even notice though May 21 06:54:49 like i didn't feel drunk at all May 21 06:54:59 i was just drinking delicious drank, fruity delicious drank May 21 06:55:15 and SOMEHOW i was .20 even though cops+nurse agreed i only seemed like i had 3 drinks or so May 21 06:55:27 that was with the ativan too May 21 07:10:19 morning May 21 07:12:10 morning swisstomcat May 21 07:12:22 morning May 21 07:13:52 i was surprised to see an openexpo logo in that presentation by matthew tippett May 21 07:16:09 raster: what are you doing these days? May 21 07:26:07 there we go. much better May 21 07:40:03 info May 21 07:40:29 help May 21 07:41:25 ~info May 21 07:41:34 ~status May 21 07:41:38 Since Tue May 18 07:40:14 2010, there have been 4 modifications, 114 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 66 commands. I have been awake for 3d 1m 23s this session, and currently reference 117043 factoids. I'm using about 28864 kB of memory. With 1 active fork. Process time user/system 7833.29/208.74 child 0.17/0.05 May 21 07:44:34 ~info mlocate May 21 07:44:44 mlocate: (quickly find files on the filesystem based on their name), section utils, is standard. Version: 0.22.2-1 (sid), Packaged size: 85 kB, Installed size: 560 kB May 21 07:45:11 ~info slocate May 21 07:45:29 ~info locate May 21 07:45:34 locate: (maintain and query an index of a directory tree), section utils, is optional. Version: 4.4.2-1 (sid), Packaged size: 148 kB, Installed size: 324 kB May 21 07:46:18 ~info sbox2 May 21 07:46:40 ~info sbox May 21 07:46:54 grrr... May 21 07:46:58 ~info scratchbox May 21 07:47:19 1 last try for you infobot May 21 07:47:29 ~info scratchbox2 May 21 07:47:39 ~lart infobot May 21 07:47:39 * infobot slaps ka6sox around with a large trout May 21 07:48:03 heh May 21 07:48:12 ~qemu May 21 07:48:13 extra, extra, read all about it, qemu is an x86 emulator at http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/ May 21 07:49:13 scratchbox2: (Transparent cross compiling environment), section utils, is extra. Version: 2.0-3.1 (sid), Packaged size: 101 kB, Installed size: 612 kB May 21 07:53:35 heh May 21 07:53:45 i remember writing a bot for irc in my early days .. fun May 21 07:53:58 in REXX of all languages :) May 21 07:56:19 you haven't lived till you write one in LISP :D May 21 07:56:23 lisp May 21 07:56:32 my first semester programming course was in scheme May 21 07:56:41 i hated it at the time but thinking back, i love scheme. May 21 07:56:49 so easy, so elegant May 21 07:56:54 recursion was so simple May 21 08:00:20 Originally specified in 1958, Lisp is the second-oldest high-level programming language in widespread use today; only Fortran is older May 21 08:00:33 it was a good year. May 21 08:01:39 cdm: hey ho May 21 08:04:20 (was just having problems with rsvg bugs.. gave it the boot. dont need no steeeeeeeeeeeeenkin svg anyway) May 21 08:27:27 Grah, the ringtone selection menu sucks, I need to organise the tones in a slight directory structure, and it's really not working well. May 21 10:31:22 ping saurik May 21 13:03:49 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/MiniDM May 21 13:05:29 hi hattczech May 21 13:05:41 hey swiss May 21 13:05:53 just saw that my ap got published May 21 13:05:59 wohoo May 21 13:06:04 congratulations May 21 13:06:10 which one is it? May 21 13:06:11 now to somehow get 20k+ downloads :) May 21 13:06:16 txt group May 21 13:06:46 what's the app-id? May 21 13:06:57 com.hattczech.txtgroup May 21 13:07:09 it's always a good moment when an app finally is released May 21 13:07:34 indeed May 21 13:07:52 now I just need to update txt manager to compliment it May 21 13:09:14 hmmm, they didn't include all 5 pictures... only 3 May 21 13:13:31 hattczech_wirc: https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=7216 May 21 13:15:43 hmmm, odd May 21 13:19:49 someone with a running toolchain to build arm-elf binaries for the palm? May 21 13:25:39 thalunil: what do you want to build up? May 21 13:27:44 thalunil: git.webos-internals.org May 21 13:28:11 thalunil: preware/build.git/Makefile, look at the toolchain target May 21 13:30:25 bpadalino: toying around with tcpdump, but: i am having problems buildung the toolchain with the nslu2-linux.org thingie May 21 13:33:39 ah interesting May 21 13:33:58 that toolchain that rwhitby has up there should be helpful May 21 13:34:45 thalunil: tcpdump is in optware already May 21 13:34:59 or you could just grab that May 21 13:36:42 oh, havent spotted May 21 13:37:00 just a stupid example, i want to build anyway May 21 13:37:12 lets see if these targets work better May 21 13:38:17 so, i have 8 pks in optware. using: optware/all and optware/armv6 May 21 13:38:25 is there no armv6 build? May 21 13:38:41 pre or pixi, if i may ask ? May 21 13:41:15 thalunil: there are over 1600 packages in optware May 21 13:41:52 install the "Optware Advanced Linux Command Line Installer" from Preware, go to the command line, type "ipkg-opt update ; ipkg-opt list" May 21 13:42:16 good morning May 21 13:42:33 thalunil: the command line optware packages come from http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/ May 21 13:42:43 hey JackieRipper, did you test Uber 1.4.2 ? May 21 13:43:11 rwhitby, I tried list night, but did not see it in the kernel or kernel testing feed May 21 13:44:14 it's released now May 21 13:44:16 still don't, actually. In the kernels category, I have Palm Kernel and SBromwich Kernel May 21 13:44:24 just refreshed May 21 13:45:38 bpadalino: Pixi May 21 13:46:41 doesn't seem like as many pixi users here than pre users, that's for sure May 21 13:48:35 rwhitby, it's not in http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels/1.4.1.1/ May 21 13:48:52 it looks like it was only released for webos 1.4.2 May 21 13:49:21 as it is in http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels/testing/1.4.2/ May 21 13:49:22 JackieRipper: yep, that's why it's called UberKernel 1.4.2 May 21 13:49:45 ahhh, and here I thought it was just a new version May 21 13:49:50 my bad May 21 13:49:56 it is a new version, for webOS 1.4.2 May 21 13:50:30 but the patches are still at -21 May 21 13:51:48 I am unable to test at this time :) May 21 13:51:56 rwhitby: works great, although: ipkg-opt update complains there is no pixi/cross dir on ipkg.nslu2-linux.org May 21 13:52:20 oops, that should be a frown face May 21 13:52:30 so: 1308 packages on this ipkg-opt thing May 21 13:53:29 thalunil: ah yes, we haven't built any kernel stuff for the Pixi, and that's the only stuff that needs a separate feed. Just delete that line from /opt/etc/ipkg/*.conf May 21 13:53:48 rwhitby: already done...nifty tools yeah :) May 21 13:54:22 thalunil: all that stuff comes from the nslu2-linux.org project, which I founded over 5 years ago May 21 13:54:27 rwhitby: now i want my own toolchain, want to check Tor and friends May 21 13:54:43 rwhitby: yeah, thats what i figured. its the same arch, isnt it? May 21 13:54:45 thalunil: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/AddAPackageToOptware May 21 13:54:52 not the same arch May 21 13:55:03 optware supports about 20 different devices and archs May 21 13:55:25 if you create a new .mk file, we can get you commit access May 21 13:58:53 thalunil: alternatively, you can use the WIDK May 21 13:59:53 i thought of optware as the optware feed in preware May 21 13:59:55 hrmpf May 21 14:00:04 2days of confusion May 21 14:02:25 the optware feed in preware is just those packages from optware that we've taken the trouble to repackage with screenshots and descriptions and stuff and put into Preware May 21 14:02:59 thalunil: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Optware explains it reasonably well May 21 14:03:05 ty! May 21 14:23:16 * rwhitby bbt May 21 14:36:30 bbl May 21 15:24:24 Good Morning! May 21 15:25:12 good afternoon May 21 15:25:54 :( May 21 15:25:58 :)* May 21 15:26:55 * en0x is playing pacman on google.com May 21 15:28:07 en0x: playing 2player yet? May 21 15:28:17 Insert Coin twice = Ms. Pacman 2 Player May 21 15:29:38 :> May 21 15:51:26 man playing two player is hard May 21 15:51:32 well being the only player May 21 15:51:40 wasd style for mc pacman May 21 15:55:29 ooo played two player with a coworker we kicked ass May 21 16:27:44 rwhitby: you are still here? May 21 16:30:27 google pacman works on the iPhone, not on the Pre :/ May 21 16:30:48 why not ? May 21 16:35:52 Metaview: Why doesn't it work? I assume it is an evil plot to make people hate webOS May 21 16:36:31 :) May 21 17:40:12 has anyone looked at the doodels for google's home page drawn my children! holly crap do kids really draw like that? May 21 17:40:44 http://www.google.com/doodle4google/vote.html May 21 17:42:38 region 9 for k-3.... that kid is going to be a computer wiz :) May 21 17:43:07 he is already writing binary at age 7 :) May 21 17:44:21 does http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/optware-bootstrap-manual.sh still work? May 21 17:45:50 unsigned: should be ha May 21 17:46:14 Jack87|Work: tx May 21 17:48:22 Afternoon. May 21 17:48:38 good afternoon May 21 17:48:45 I have a question about Uber Kernel if someone is available to answer. May 21 17:48:53 I am unable to install it' May 21 17:48:55 go ahead...I can try :D May 21 17:49:07 I'm running Preware 1.0.4 May 21 17:49:18 and WebOS 1.4.1.1 VZW May 21 17:49:34 whats the error? May 21 17:49:41 When I click on the install button in preware it just sits there saying downloading May 21 17:50:02 Yesterday it hung for 3 hours. Today I've let it sit for 5 minutes, 10 minutes and 20 minutes. May 21 17:50:02 what feed does it say its getting it from? May 21 17:50:36 It doesn't give me any extra output below the "Downloading/Installing" message like it does with other applications I install May 21 17:51:02 do a package update then retry getting it. May 21 17:51:08 No IPKG error log entries either. May 21 17:51:15 things may have moved since your last update May 21 17:51:29 so it doesn't do that automatically every time I load preware? May 21 17:51:46 I admit I'm not sure about that. May 21 17:52:01 * ka6sox looks at the feed it should be in. May 21 17:52:02 I just reinstalled preware about 20 minutes ago May 21 17:52:26 from WebOS Quick Install May 21 17:52:33 okay, so you are using 1.0.4 of the preware installer...thats right. May 21 17:52:46 the method for installing kernels changed in 1.0.4 May 21 17:53:11 try installing it from wosqi. (the kernel) May 21 17:53:14 It put it in at 1.0.0 and I had to update it again. May 21 17:53:25 how do I do that, it's not listed in any of the feeds May 21 17:53:32 I guess I could manually put in the feed, eh? May 21 17:53:39 ya, thats what I do. May 21 17:55:23 ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-patches/1.4.1.1 right? May 21 17:56:17 iirc its webos-kernels May 21 17:56:20 lemme check May 21 17:57:17 ya, webos-kernels May 21 17:57:59 I'm getting a message that says it cannot connect to the package feed May 21 17:58:02 hello ka6sox May 21 17:58:23 * ka6sox checks the server. May 21 17:59:36 I should be hitting 140.211.169.161 right? May 21 18:00:10 eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:16:3e:08:9f:0d May 21 18:00:10 inet addr:140.211.169.161 May 21 18:00:13 and to add the custom feed the full url is http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-patches/1.4.1.1 right? May 21 18:00:47 webos-kernels May 21 18:01:35 ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels/1.4.1.1 May 21 18:02:45 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels May 21 18:02:48 ? May 21 18:03:01 doh May 21 18:04:27 do I need the http:// ? May 21 18:04:32 I tried it with and without May 21 18:04:47 I copied ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels/1.4.1.1 May 21 18:04:49 http:// May 21 18:04:50 put it int here May 21 18:05:01 still getting the Cannot connect to package feed: May 21 18:06:00 if I put it in my browser it comes up May 21 18:07:05 i downloaded it and manually added it via the + thingy May 21 18:08:04 Umm.. Oh there it goes, phone just rebooted May 21 18:08:14 Lets see if it's a paper weight May 21 18:08:34 I downloaded the webosdoctor 1.4.1.1 just in case May 21 18:13:09 So was preware causing a lot of my stability issues? May 21 18:13:16 My phone would reboot like mad May 21 18:15:53 also, does anyone have experience with jstop? May 21 18:16:27 well, I use it to get ride of the email or contact app when testing modifications May 21 18:16:29 When it does a garbage collect when I'm listening to Pandora does it blow away my cached music? May 21 18:16:40 no clue about this May 21 18:21:05 rehi May 21 18:39:33 hello May 21 18:40:26 hello May 21 18:42:43 first time here, i wanted to post a suggestion to the webos-internals team May 21 18:43:09 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2467014 May 21 18:43:15 the full suggestion is there May 21 18:43:26 no idea if this has been thrown around before May 21 18:45:24 interesting May 21 18:45:30 in which country are you? May 21 18:47:52 UAE May 21 18:48:02 GSM i assume? May 21 18:48:05 yep May 21 18:48:16 3G on 2100mhz May 21 18:48:52 could you use a german unlocked pre? May 21 18:48:52 even if I had a phone though, I don't have much experience with lots of js/css May 21 18:49:04 yeah, german should be 2100MHz May 21 18:49:10 i mostly just hack files to get them to look the way I want May 21 18:49:14 yeah, i know May 21 18:49:20 but if the hardware fails May 21 18:49:30 i can't get any warranty help May 21 18:49:38 thats a big investment for me right now May 21 18:50:29 i actually played with a Sprint Pre in the USA last summer May 21 18:50:33 really enjoyed it May 21 18:51:06 but i noticed a lot of JS comments, CSS comments, and the idea of minification came to me May 21 18:51:28 didn't know really if it was reasonable, and i thought webos-internals would catch it sooner or later May 21 18:51:36 but apparently not May 21 18:51:44 also, the other problem is i dont know what it does to patches May 21 18:52:15 patches would probably have to be rebuilt May 21 18:52:19 the core css/js needs to get patched, and the compression tools get run on top of that May 21 18:52:36 I was thinking that some kind of compression engine gets built on top of preware May 21 18:53:17 are you an active webos-internals dev? May 21 18:53:52 who ? May 21 18:53:55 the Yahoo profilers and tools are really good, from what i know May 21 18:54:00 swisstomcat? May 21 18:54:12 how about you bpadalino May 21 18:54:14 Hey all May 21 18:54:31 well, what would the point be of minification ? May 21 18:54:51 i haven't done anything significant for webos internals for a very very long time May 21 18:55:34 yes? May 21 18:55:43 well, its unclear if reducing calls to JS/CSS speeds up Javascript performance on a mobile device May 21 18:56:00 just to test if it does or not, and enjoy the enhancement if it does May 21 18:56:08 i'm doing translation work for webos-internals May 21 18:56:36 you could use the emulator, ken2022 .. although timing is probably different there because it's built for x86 May 21 18:56:36 Ben and Dion suggest in the recent Dev Podcast that the local files on the mobile device obey many of the same rules as websites and HTTP May 21 18:56:37 i was always under the impression that minification is more for a compression benefit so there is less time required to transfer the same information over the wire .. May 21 18:57:01 that's what i heard at the developer days too May 21 18:57:13 optimize your loading times because the flash-disk is slow May 21 18:57:22 we arent talking just minification, but grouping CSS/JS May 21 18:57:25 into 1 each May 21 18:57:26 etc May 21 18:57:36 so not stricting minifying singular JS or CSS files May 21 18:57:41 is reading the flash really that slow ? May 21 18:57:55 it is surprising, if that is the case May 21 18:59:14 i know i could use an emulator, but thats not really the main issue. i simply can't do this myself, not unless i had a good amount of help. May 21 18:59:36 Does anyone know the type of streaming audio that Webos can decode and play? May 21 19:00:23 anyways, hopefully someone will read over this and decide its worth checking out, perhaps anyone that is listening can pass on to the higher powers to see if this can be added onto a priority list? May 21 19:01:05 gtg May 21 19:03:46 Thinking of making a radio streaming app but from what i understand webos can't handle some stream feeds May 21 19:06:24 major: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1741&Itemid=265 (bottom) May 21 19:06:36 howdy preoccupied May 21 19:08:40 sweet May 21 19:12:48 XC5VLX50-3FF676 May 21 19:13:06 wrong place..sri May 21 19:16:01 what program is that for LOL May 21 19:27:50 where does preware store 'installed apps' details? May 21 19:28:02 IOW: Anyway to manually remove apps May 21 19:28:58 (I have installed apps that don't show up in Luna) May 21 19:29:27 hmm May 21 19:29:47 ka6sox: what are you doing with a v5 ? May 21 19:30:25 virtex 5 FPGA May 21 19:31:07 yeah May 21 19:32:19 encoding 600GB files. May 21 19:32:35 (and streaming) May 21 19:33:04 sounds like a fun project May 21 19:33:29 ya, streams @ 720Mbps May 21 19:33:55 wired? May 21 19:34:02 very May 21 19:34:43 can't lose any bits over the entire 600GB. May 21 19:34:52 lost bits are bad May 21 19:36:51 had to go to RAID0 for the drive array :P May 21 19:36:59 SSD's May 21 19:37:53 now thats practical..when we first started it wasnt' May 21 19:38:19 what are the files you're encoding and streaming ? May 21 19:42:26 big image files. May 21 19:44:00 very nice May 21 20:05:25 where does the browser put temp files? May 21 20:06:14 apparently I can't save files of unrecognized types, but I'm hoping they end up in a temp directory and I can cp them... May 21 20:07:04 so, anyone willing to take a look at and verify install on Mathias's hybrid chess app? Binary engine, javascript front end... May 21 20:07:15 http://www.schachforum-darmstadt.de/prechess/com.vocshopgames.chess_0.0.5_all.ipk May 21 20:11:08 sure May 21 20:11:13 emu or device? May 21 20:13:53 i was about to ask the same May 21 20:14:02 i'm setting up my phone to try May 21 20:20:19 device May 21 21:07:52 my pre is much faster than my spac station 2 ever was, if it only had video and keyboard/mouse ports. May 21 21:08:08 ^ for X May 21 21:25:41 anyone seen sbromwich recently? May 21 21:40:29 ~seen sbromwich May 21 21:40:34 sbromwich is currently on #webos-internals. Has said a total of 48 messages. Is idling for 2d 2h 51m 14s, last said: 'best example being the caffeinated moka ale'. May 21 21:41:03 not recently, jhojho May 21 21:42:34 voltnine: they do not download at all if it is an unrecognized filetype. I believe it checks mime types sent on request of the download, before the download begins. May 21 21:43:14 hello? May 21 21:43:27 how do i find the themes in my preware app? May 21 21:45:47 manage feeds, enable prethemer or precentral-themes May 21 21:45:52 (or both) May 21 21:45:57 then update and browse May 21 21:54:49 that's seriously lame. May 21 21:55:16 so there's no way to actually download things? May 21 21:55:40 well aside from wget. May 21 21:55:50 wget would work May 21 21:55:54 or maybe a curl command May 21 21:56:00 but i'm not familiar with curl so much May 21 21:56:04 which won't work for me because I'm trying to grab a webmail attachment. May 21 21:57:18 I don't know of any way to trick gmail into thinking it's the same connection if I wget. May 21 22:00:08 well, heheh May 21 22:00:21 there is a somewhat tricky way May 21 22:00:45 use the full version of wget (through optware) May 21 22:00:59 and store the cookie when going between sessions May 21 22:01:24 it's an extreme PITA, but it works May 21 22:01:38 i just wish i could meta-tap and download May 21 22:03:47 but then I'd have to log in to my mail account in wget to get the cookie wouldn't I? May 21 22:06:01 seriously, me too. May 21 22:06:08 yup May 21 22:06:19 like i said, PITA May 21 22:06:30 I can't believe nobody has added a patch for that. May 21 22:06:57 true May 21 22:07:26 I think I'll try my hand at adding /quote support in wirc to get familiar with webos dev. May 21 22:53:20 . May 21 22:55:49 ns May 21 23:41:46 I still haven't figure out how to get WebOS Quick Install to work :( May 21 23:51:26 Preware 1.0.4 released. May 21 23:52:18 which feed? May 21 23:57:50 public feed May 22 00:44:03 mcgruber or ironman 2? May 22 01:59:32 hey ppl May 22 01:59:39 hello May 22 01:59:42 hows it going ? May 22 02:00:04 not too bad, you? May 22 02:00:19 eieio: yo May 22 02:00:20 eh, doing OK .. a little sad, tho May 22 02:00:46 i didn't realize the focus of the pre's camera really didn't allow for barcode picture taking to be easily done May 22 02:01:08 bpadalino: you didn't ask me :> May 22 02:01:13 zsoc, sorry! May 22 02:01:24 zsoc, did you look into sharpening filters for deblurring the image ? May 22 02:01:43 eieio, got any plans for the weekend ? May 22 02:01:55 bpadalino: No, because they won't work :> May 22 02:02:03 don't think so? May 22 02:02:17 yeah, that is disappointing. better cameras next iteration May 22 02:02:24 eieio, that sounds promising May 22 02:02:35 i'll continue with my idea then .. May 22 02:02:58 i decided tonight i was going to compile zxing and see if i could do a PDK/JS dealie .. just for giggles May 22 02:03:14 so even if it doesn't work for now .. maybe in the future it'll have a purpose May 22 02:03:38 cool cool May 22 02:04:05 eieio, i'm also hoping for a 6/6 anniversary announcement of some type .. but not holding my breath May 22 02:04:43 of course i can't comment on those types of things ;) May 22 02:05:18 My pastime: trying to figure out what each libpdl api is a wrapper of May 22 02:05:34 eieio, i considered it a one-way comment :) May 22 02:05:52 i know how frustrating one-way conversations can be .. we have them at work too often :( May 22 02:05:58 Or as geist would say, ICNCODTS May 22 02:06:06 indeed May 22 02:06:20 eieio, have you been checking out the kernel stuff the guys in here have been doing ? May 22 02:08:55 i stumbled onto someone's work dir on the interwebs at one point, but i haven't had much time to look at it May 22 02:09:19 good to know you're working hard on something else :) May 22 02:09:37 geist and i were talking about taking a look sometime though May 22 02:10:18 yep, working on the next stuff May 22 02:10:32 sounds fun May 22 02:10:44 eieio: it's cool stuff... temperature sensors... various working governors, including screenstate, overclocking to 720/800.. etc May 22 02:11:19 yeah i gotta say - getting the cpu internal temperature monitor going was pretty nice May 22 02:11:28 not having to rely on the battery temperature May 22 02:11:30 it was a 3530 backport right? May 22 02:11:42 oh cool May 22 02:12:04 i don't know any details - sbromwich or whoever would obviously be better to ask :) May 22 02:12:08 i'm a dummy :) May 22 02:12:24 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=kernels/patches.git;a=blob;f=sensors/sensors_temp_omap34xx.patch;h=356c887bbbfc3ce1faa9882644142b5a76dab842;hb=HEAD May 22 02:12:25 we'll have to take a look at that if we have time. May 22 02:12:28 that's the patch for the temp sensor May 22 02:12:32 eieio: bookmark it ;) May 22 02:12:43 OPPs were a 3560 backport, I found a working temp sensor patch on the third try. May 22 02:12:56 we've been wanting to revisit at lot of stuff on pre, but of course things keep moving and that doesn't always work out May 22 02:14:00 yeah, that's what we're for May 22 02:14:11 yeah, always sucks making that tradeoff between good enough and great May 22 02:16:41 GB did you get a hold of Rod? May 22 02:16:49 DarthPooh: yep May 22 02:16:54 Good May 22 02:16:58 he's the man for the job May 22 02:17:23 DarthPooh: hiya May 22 02:17:24 without cmd line access, it isn't possible. BUT I think it'll be this guy who gets root May 22 02:17:31 zsoc: hola mate. May 22 02:19:40 zsoc: yep. open systems FTW May 22 02:20:37 I'm fairly happy with the pdk app runtime env decisions May 22 02:20:38 Indeed, the irony over AOSP is it isn't so OS at all May 22 02:21:41 zsoc: the sandboxing was done properly, just wish there was a bigger budget at Palm to move things along a lil bit faster in terms of developement May 22 02:23:01 zsoc: things are catching up with Android with 3D gaming... gameloft is about to drop major apps to Android :( May 22 02:23:38 That's not a :( to me, but ok :) May 22 02:24:13 My big problem is AOSP is the lack of anything standard or gpl in the stack. May 22 02:24:42 AOSP ? May 22 02:25:01 Android Open Source Project May 22 02:25:04 ah gotcha May 22 02:26:00 zsoc: one of the main issues with that gpl is because you have too many OEM's using different chipsets... the worst offender is samsung,using proprietary chips making for an entirely different file system. May 22 02:26:35 the other irony is that Android isn't Linux May 22 02:26:43 May 22 02:26:50 May 22 02:27:25 in the GNU/Linux sense May 22 02:27:28 Samsung's LED TV's are so damn pretty they're allowed to be shallow and proprietary :| May 22 02:27:30 eieio: sure it is May 22 02:27:50 eieio: it's a modified kernel, just like iPhone / webOS is May 22 02:27:56 yeah, I guess now that the android patches have been booted out of the kernel.org tree, you can really only say it's a derivative of the mainline linux kernel :) May 22 02:28:07 DarthPooh: I'm confused by your direct and compelling arguments and understanding of various complex embedded .. things. Maybe I confused your identity. May 22 02:28:07 heh May 22 02:28:08 what part is besides the kernel? May 22 02:28:23 (but of course the kernel in webOS is the same, but at least is using omap patches that are destined for mainline May 22 02:29:13 eieio: Kernel is what defines it for me. but I suppose calling it a derivitive isn't the worst thing. May 22 02:29:35 and iPhone doesn't run the linux kernel, it runs xnu (darwin) May 22 02:30:27 people often say that Android is based on the Linux operating system, which isn't precisely true May 22 02:30:27 in the classical sense, it seems palm and nokia are the linux phones and android is a funky hybrid May 22 02:30:29 eieio: yes... unix. apologies May 22 02:31:08 it's somewhat pedantic, but there is a meaningful distinction May 22 02:31:13 bpadalino: this I agree with 100%, but it's got a linux kernel May 22 02:31:25 eieio: no absolutely, I was being obtuse May 22 02:31:51 bpadalino: franken-linux if you will May 22 02:31:58 When I was picking a new phone platform for myself I saw webos and thought 'awesome, you can edit and see damn near everything' and then saw andriod hacking as 'oh...great...custom roms... cause I wasn't sick enough of that with windows mobile' ;x May 22 02:32:29 yeah, the fact they had to write their own libc is kinda meh as well .. since stuff written to run on a linux system won't really be useful - whereas optware works well on webos May 22 02:33:07 indeed May 22 02:33:11 bpadalino: optware works... it's just... part brute force and magic, required. May 22 02:33:36 i thought apple had a patent on magic in electronic products ;) May 22 02:33:52 no, their patent is for making magic in electronics 'pretty' May 22 02:34:06 ah, i was confused May 22 02:34:11 i bet George Lucas has that patent May 22 02:34:22 bpadalino: magical experiences are patented... not the exclusive use of voodoo or unicorn blood (TM) May 22 02:34:47 punzada: yeah, one of my main design goals for webos-internals stuff is to never have to distribute something as a "ROM" May 22 02:34:49 does George Lucas pay attention to that, or is he too busy counting his money? May 22 02:35:13 i dunno, money is pretty distracting May 22 02:38:56 rwhitby: well, Rod, sometimes, that isn't an awful thing. A "Rom" could be the best of patches/kernels that are one click installs. feature sets... if you will. May 22 02:39:02 at least this weekend is supposed to be really rainy, so i don't mind sitting back and trying this zxing thing May 22 02:39:42 Hey all, got Preware bug question... May 22 02:39:43 bpadalino: it better be awesome. you have too much talent to waste doing something silly ;) May 22 02:39:50 Jbg7474: there aren't any, clearly May 22 02:40:02 zsoc: there is in 1.0.4 :) May 22 02:40:18 and 1.0.5 for that matter May 22 02:40:30 Luna restarts after installing patches seem to disable my lock screen. Anyone else experience this? May 22 02:40:41 Jbg7474: you're running 1.0.0 ? May 22 02:40:57 Rwhitby: yep May 22 02:41:19 Jbg7474: reboot, and it will go away until the next time you install something. A fix is in alpha testing (1.0.6( May 22 02:41:26 s/(/)/ May 22 02:41:26 rwhitby meant: Jbg7474: reboot, and it will go away until the next time you install something. A fix is in alpha testing )1.0.6( May 22 02:41:43 excellent May 22 02:41:46 ~botslap May 22 02:41:47 * infobot cowers away from rwhitby May 22 02:41:48 zsoc, i don't have that much talent at all .. it's all a farce May 22 02:41:56 infobot: do what I mean, not what i say! May 22 02:41:57 * infobot does what I mean, not what i say!. May 22 02:42:22 Rwhitby: okay, just wanted to see if you knew about it. May 22 02:44:56 Gnight then! Thanks for the help. May 22 02:44:59 Jbg7474: thx - feel free to alpha test 1.0.6 May 22 02:46:11 Rwhitby: I'll give it a spin. Alpha feed is easy to select from Manage feeds I presume? May 22 02:47:29 no, you have to manually add it May 22 02:47:32 ~testing-feeds May 22 02:47:46 ~testing-feed May 22 02:47:47 well, testing-feed is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds May 22 02:47:49 interesting bot feature May 22 02:47:58 i should implement that in my bot May 22 02:48:15 the s/// thing, i mean May 22 02:51:00 If only it had a few more sed features May 22 02:51:19 what other features would you want ? May 22 02:51:30 * zsoc would like alternative deliminators May 22 02:51:44 and backreferences May 22 02:52:46 zsoc got mentioned on precentral.net :-) May 22 02:52:51 what is he/she/it written in? May 22 02:53:02 ~infobot May 22 02:53:03 methinks infobot is the most helpful and smartest of all the bots May 22 02:53:07 * zsoc sighs May 22 02:53:28 PrimerFender: more importantly, precentral.net got mentioned on zsoc May 22 02:54:16 ?? May 22 02:54:33 does govnah now preserve settings across reboots? May 22 02:54:42 jhojho: did it not before? May 22 02:54:49 no May 22 02:54:54 not afaik May 22 02:54:54 i don't think it does .. in case you become unstable .. May 22 02:55:06 reboot loop May 22 02:55:09 reboot loop May 22 02:55:11 reboot loop May 22 02:55:14 hehe May 22 02:55:16 reboot loop May 22 02:55:17 xD May 22 02:55:22 * zsoc is a follower May 22 02:55:25 my phone restarted (dead battery) and it came up in performance gov May 22 02:55:28 strange May 22 02:55:56 jhojho: maybe on shutdown from dead battery webos does some magical cookie saving May 22 02:56:05 like "save as much as possible before forcing shutdown" May 22 02:56:56 speaking of which, I was thinking the other day that it would be nice if save/restore could save restore browser cookies and bookmarks. May 22 02:57:26 those should be in your palm profile May 22 02:57:35 i mean i don't think they are, but they /should/ be ;) May 22 02:58:05 be nice if pp had an api so you could push whatever small amount of data (json?) upstream May 22 02:58:31 zsoc: agreed that it should be but isnt May 22 02:59:45 night all **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 22 02:59:57 2010