**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 12 02:59:56 2010
Jun 12 03:00:00 <rwhitby> same with all the evo hype.  it's like "ok, so there's a new device that will work in a couple of cities in the US.  big deal"
Jun 12 03:01:26 <bpadalino> yeah, the 4g works in a couple cities .. but it's also wimax which is not getting big adoption and rightfully so
Jun 12 03:02:02 <rwhitby> and it's only a 16 bit screen too
Jun 12 03:02:14 <rwhitby> so it's big and ugly
Jun 12 03:02:29 <bpadalino> oh? i didn't know the screen was only 16-bit
Jun 12 03:02:32 <bpadalino> that's gross
Jun 12 03:09:29 <VincentLaw> I don't see the big deal about 16-bit being a problem. Unless you're constantly looking at display graph gradients you wouldn't even notice. The screen, despite its size, is still too small to make it noticible
Jun 12 03:09:40 <VincentLaw> and 4G works in a lot more than a couple cities
Jun 12 03:10:00 <VincentLaw> Although I'm pretty sure people aren't getting the EVO just for 4G anyway. I know I didn't.
Jun 12 03:10:01 <bpadalino> you  haven't been hanging out with the couples i know!
Jun 12 03:10:58 <VincentLaw> lol
Jun 12 03:11:16 <VincentLaw> All I know is, I got the EVO because it's the absolute best Android phone out there, especially on Sprint.
Jun 12 03:17:11 <bpadalino> maybe i just don't "get" android :(
Jun 12 03:47:02 <mandaman2k> hey guys
Jun 12 03:47:17 <bpadalino> hi
Jun 12 03:47:28 <mandaman2k> just looking if some could help with a little info about the meta-doctor
Jun 12 03:47:46 <bpadalino> sure, feel free to drop some knowledge
Jun 12 03:49:53 <mandaman2k> i've done all the steps on the wiki in webos-internals and i'm trying to modify a doctor for sprint 1.4.1.1 and only want to BYPASS_ACTIVATION, so I uncommented it and then ran make all-sprint
Jun 12 03:50:42 <mandaman2k> I think everything went smooth and then ran the doctor, once it finished my pre boot up and got the blue screen for activation
Jun 12 03:50:54 <mandaman2k> it didn't bypass it
Jun 12 03:51:35 <mandaman2k> i'm using the cygwin if it is of any help
Jun 12 03:55:06 <mandaman2k> anyone, help?? please?
Jun 12 03:55:58 <bpadalino> i am sorry, but i've never used meta-doctor .. :(
Jun 12 03:56:00 <bpadalino> i wish i could help you
Jun 12 03:56:21 <bpadalino> do you care about using the phone as a phone ?
Jun 12 03:56:30 <bpadalino> or just getting by activation ?
Jun 12 03:57:07 <bpadalino> there is always http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2051&Itemid=21 if you don't give a crap, but rwhitby does note that it is not very good in terms of using the phone as a phone for reals
Jun 12 03:57:57 <halfhalo> try bypassing first use and activation
Jun 12 03:58:15 <halfhalo> Thats what I did for the devpre, then just ran first use myself
Jun 12 04:01:41 <mandaman2k> yep, i'v tried that also and i don't know why when i use the bypass first use, I can never, reset (shutdown and turn on) or do a full erase it just stays there, dont know why
Jun 12 04:44:32 <beelzabub> :wq
Jun 12 04:44:35 <beelzabub> woops
Jun 12 04:44:43 <halfhalo> FAIL
Jun 12 04:45:28 <bpadalino> yeah, everyone knows ZZ is less characters and does the same thing
Jun 12 04:45:40 <halfhalo> lol
Jun 12 04:46:07 <beelzabub> wtf-  i never knew about ZZ
Jun 12 04:46:45 <beelzabub> that's one thing I hate about vim - some asshole comes along and decides that it's a good idea to have 10 different macros doing the same thing just because it's 1 character less
Jun 12 04:47:29 <bpadalino> hah
Jun 12 04:47:47 <halfhalo> Need to make my regex better for this client
Jun 12 04:47:48 <bpadalino> it's the opposite with emacs.. i never grew that 11th finger to make all the keystrokes doable :(
Jun 12 04:48:55 <beelzabub> that's why I could never do the C-x M-c M-butterfly command - always wanted to try it though
Jun 12 04:49:06 <bpadalino> hehe
Jun 12 04:49:12 <halfhalo> lol
Jun 12 04:49:48 <bpadalino> how is your friday night beelzabub?
Jun 12 04:49:55 <beelzabub> i'm at work
Jun 12 04:49:56 <beelzabub> :)
Jun 12 04:50:00 <bpadalino> oh wow
Jun 12 04:50:01 <halfhalo> GOD DAMMIT!  Why is my tv doing this
Jun 12 04:50:02 <beelzabub> really frustrating week
Jun 12 04:50:12 <bpadalino> sorry to hear that .. getting through it, tho?
Jun 12 04:50:14 <beelzabub> but i'm almost ready to go home - finally managed to test the feature
Jun 12 04:50:18 <beelzabub> yup
Jun 12 04:50:19 <halfhalo> did you light the place on fire again?
Jun 12 04:50:23 <bpadalino> that is good
Jun 12 04:50:43 <bpadalino> just a difficult feature to implement, or the little pebble turned into a mountain when you started to dig ?
Jun 12 04:50:46 <beelzabub> i went to meet up with my friend though - mentoring a high school student with him.  thinking of some cool robotics/programming/autonomous thing to do
Jun 12 04:50:51 <beelzabub> easy feature
Jun 12 04:50:54 <beelzabub> had it implemented last week
Jun 12 04:51:09 <beelzabub> unfortunately, all my devices broke
Jun 12 04:51:12 <beelzabub> so i couldn't test it
Jun 12 04:51:13 <halfhalo> lol?
Jun 12 04:51:16 <bpadalino> ouch, that sucks
Jun 12 04:51:25 <bpadalino> how did they break ?
Jun 12 04:51:34 <bpadalino> btw, are you familiar with FIRST robotics ?
Jun 12 04:51:34 <beelzabub> i flashed the wrong modem fw on one of them
Jun 12 04:51:40 <beelzabub> yup - i was in FIRST
Jun 12 04:51:41 <bpadalino> ah yeah, that'll do it
Jun 12 04:51:57 <bpadalino> FIRST seems to be a fun way to introduce the robotics stuff
Jun 12 04:52:00 <beelzabub> another for some reason couldn't talk to the tower, so no activation
Jun 12 04:52:14 <ka6sox> our local HS has a Engineering Academy.
Jun 12 04:52:19 <beelzabub> then another had a really annoying bug that made it deadlock quite a bit on boot
Jun 12 04:52:22 <bpadalino> or if they are more adventurous, they could take on making their own UAV
Jun 12 04:52:27 <ka6sox> they participate in FIRST.
Jun 12 04:52:30 <beelzabub> got another device from a coworker - broken modem
Jun 12 04:52:35 <beelzabub> so yeah - really frustrating week
Jun 12 04:52:42 <bpadalino> yeah that sounds pretty terrible
Jun 12 04:52:44 <beelzabub> FIRST was fun - but it's typically in january
Jun 12 04:52:50 <beelzabub> & definitely a large team project
Jun 12 04:52:51 <bpadalino> gotcha
Jun 12 04:52:52 <ka6sox> rwhitby has a broken modem too!
Jun 12 04:52:58 <beelzabub> this is kind me & a friend and this high school kid
Jun 12 04:52:59 <bpadalino> hah, indeed he does
Jun 12 04:53:12 <bpadalino> beelzabub: what type of interests other than just "robotics" ?
Jun 12 04:53:17 <beelzabub> on top of all of that, the build kept breaking exactly the things I needed working to test my feature :)
Jun 12 04:53:29 <beelzabub> bpadalino: can you clarify what you mean?
Jun 12 04:53:41 <ka6sox> beelzabub, that does sound like a bad week.. ;(
Jun 12 04:54:02 <bpadalino> just curious what types of things really get you and your friend excited when it comes to the autonomous nature of things .. or programming ..
Jun 12 04:54:26 <bpadalino> are you thinking like roomba reprogramming, or more like automated beer pouring
Jun 12 04:54:35 <bpadalino> (soda for that high school student)
Jun 12 04:54:39 <beelzabub> everything - i really want to get back into programming microcontrollers that cause things to move
Jun 12 04:54:54 <beelzabub> not sure yet - still brainstorming wild ideas
Jun 12 04:54:58 <ka6sox> beelzabub, ya, thast the fun stuff.
Jun 12 04:55:13 <ka6sox> no more making pretty pictures.
Jun 12 04:55:16 <bpadalino> whatever you do, don't do the "robot follows a line on the ground" project .. :(
Jun 12 04:55:20 <beelzabub> :)
Jun 12 04:55:28 <beelzabub> that one isn't difficult
Jun 12 04:55:40 <beelzabub> until you make it go fast
Jun 12 04:55:48 <bpadalino> inverted pendulum ?
Jun 12 04:56:13 <bpadalino> or is that too much control systems ?
Jun 12 04:56:24 <halfhalo> i like the uav option
Jun 12 04:56:45 <bpadalino> guy in i think last months circuit cellar magazine was showing off his home-made IMU .. pretty slick
Jun 12 04:56:57 <beelzabub> inverted pendulum is too much control systems
Jun 12 04:57:21 <beelzabub> my official reason is I want to make the material still relevant & related for the student
Jun 12 04:57:30 <beelzabub> although the real reason is I don't remember any control theory
Jun 12 04:57:32 <beelzabub> :)
Jun 12 04:57:35 <bpadalino> hehe
Jun 12 04:58:17 <bpadalino> so anything flying is probably out of the question
Jun 12 04:58:23 <beelzabub> not necessarily
Jun 12 04:58:33 <bpadalino> oh, alright
Jun 12 04:58:35 <beelzabub> there's pre-made kits
Jun 12 04:58:39 <bpadalino> true
Jun 12 04:58:59 <bpadalino> have you seen those precision small helicopters that can go through cracked open windows ?
Jun 12 04:59:04 <beelzabub> & you can use learning algorithms to keep the thing flying
Jun 12 04:59:12 <beelzabub> instead of figuring out the exact physics
Jun 12 04:59:17 <beelzabub> nope
Jun 12 04:59:48 <bpadalino> http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/phd-student-gets-quadrotor-helicopter-moving-aggressively-20100528/
Jun 12 05:00:25 <beelzabub> i was also thinking of doing something like a smart home theater system
Jun 12 05:00:40 <beelzabub> like having music follow you around the house
Jun 12 05:00:48 <beelzabub> turn off lights when you leave the room
Jun 12 05:00:49 <beelzabub> etc
Jun 12 05:00:53 <bpadalino> that's pretty slick
Jun 12 05:00:56 <bpadalino> i like that idea
Jun 12 05:01:06 <beelzabub> yup - i read that's how Bill Gate's house works
Jun 12 05:01:19 <bpadalino> seamless integration of personalities
Jun 12 05:01:54 <beelzabub> i wonder what happens if he has music following him & someone else has music following them
Jun 12 05:02:07 <halfhalo> music colision!
Jun 12 05:02:39 <bpadalino> maybe it tries to find the intersection of musical tastes ..
Jun 12 05:02:45 <beelzabub> i hope it overloads the system, puts the house in lockdown & thus begins an action-packed comedy romp of gates & friend trying to figure their way out of the house.  The Windows server has of course turned into HAL
Jun 12 05:02:48 <bpadalino> and tries to mix/match on the fly
Jun 12 05:03:03 <beelzabub> hmmm... maybe the therapists are right about my sanity
Jun 12 05:03:30 <bpadalino> Windows Server and HAL in the same sentence? didn't HAL have some type of intelligence?
Jun 12 05:03:45 <halfhalo> hah
Jun 12 05:04:00 <beelzabub> start services.msc - there's HAL there
Jun 12 05:04:12 <halfhalo> not microsoft BOB?
Jun 12 05:04:12 <beelzabub> so it probably doesn't take much to have it take over
Jun 12 05:04:21 <beelzabub> i said it was a comedy, not a horror film
Jun 12 05:04:26 <halfhalo> lol
Jun 12 05:04:58 <bpadalino> heh
Jun 12 05:05:47 <halfhalo> Ok, this is pissing me off
Jun 12 05:05:54 <beelzabub> ?
Jun 12 05:06:11 <halfhalo> my tv is making loud static for a second and then being normal
Jun 12 05:06:11 <bpadalino> all the laughing apparently
Jun 12 05:06:14 <bpadalino> really gets on his nerves
Jun 12 05:06:32 <halfhalo> ok, its tnt
Jun 12 05:07:57 <bpadalino> it's dyno-mite
Jun 12 05:08:23 <halfhalo> zing
Jun 12 05:08:28 <bpadalino> :D
Jun 12 05:09:05 <halfhalo> I hate regex with such a passion now…. but I think i finished mah interface for the web irc client
Jun 12 05:09:18 <bpadalino> regex's are kinda fun
Jun 12 05:09:35 <beelzabub> they're easy - specially if you get the right tool
Jun 12 05:09:37 <bpadalino> pcre's at least .. some other ones get kinda funky
Jun 12 05:09:44 <beelzabub> i hate pcre
Jun 12 05:09:47 <beelzabub> too limiting
Jun 12 05:09:48 <bpadalino> oh yeah ?
Jun 12 05:09:49 <beelzabub> perl
Jun 12 05:09:51 <halfhalo> trying to get one to parse irc commands in js
Jun 12 05:09:53 <bpadalino> which are you a fan of ?
Jun 12 05:10:04 <beelzabub> js uses perl
Jun 12 05:10:17 <beelzabub> non-greedy matches aren't available in pcre
Jun 12 05:10:23 <bpadalino> are you sure ??
Jun 12 05:10:57 <beelzabub> i think so
Jun 12 05:11:05 <beelzabub> sed uses pcre, right?
Jun 12 05:11:07 <bpadalino> ungreedy is used with ?
Jun 12 05:11:21 <bpadalino> so .*\s? should match any character then a space then stop ..
Jun 12 05:12:22 <halfhalo> biggest complaint about node.js:  I have to type in my password to start the server via command line
Jun 12 05:12:52 <beelzabub> ungreedy is ?
Jun 12 05:12:57 <bpadalino> yeah
Jun 12 05:13:00 <bpadalino> question mark
Jun 12 05:13:03 <beelzabub> .*\s means match until the last space
Jun 12 05:13:13 <beelzabub> .*?\s would mean match until the first space & stop
Jun 12 05:13:31 <beelzabub> otherwise, you need [^ ]*\s
Jun 12 05:14:31 <bpadalino> so that isn't what you meant?
Jun 12 05:20:04 <bpadalino> almost 1:20a .. should go to sleep .. night
Jun 12 05:20:15 * rwhitby beelzabub ping
Jun 12 05:20:20 <beelzabub> ?
Jun 12 05:20:51 <rwhitby> anyone there know about Pre GSM modems that don't talk back to the kernel?
Jun 12 05:21:20 <beelzabub> what do you mean?
Jun 12 05:21:37 <rwhitby> it has problems enumerating (not accepting the address), then mdm_act can't wake it up, and then usb disconnects and the cycle starts
Jun 12 05:21:51 <rwhitby> pmpowercycle doesn't fix it
Jun 12 05:22:33 <rwhitby> just want to know if it's likely to be a hardware problem or whether the modem can be put back in a good state via software
Jun 12 05:22:43 <beelzabub> that's too low level for me - i haven't gone that deep
Jun 12 05:28:10 <tmzt> something with the power state?
Jun 12 05:28:15 <tmzt> that seems unusual
Jun 12 05:28:28 <tmzt> 6k udc is very much like udc on other arm chips
Jun 12 05:28:49 <tmzt> so it's a fully software implementation of the usb handshaking, beyond the basic phy stuff
Jun 12 07:25:18 <beelzabub> finally - time to go home
Jun 12 07:25:20 <beelzabub> night everyone
Jun 12 07:30:08 <Azalyn> hm, i haven't kept up to date on what's been going on... but from the "deprecated" notices on the wiki, it seems the optware-bootstrap stuff isn't done anymore right? has all of this been rolled in to preware itself now?
Jun 12 07:30:42 <Azalyn> so no bootstrap is necessary anymore? i would just use webosquickinstall and install preware and that is all?
Jun 12 07:34:42 <rwhitby> well, you don't even really need wosqi - you can use palm-install to install preware
Jun 12 07:38:13 <jhojho> anyone know if there is a list showing gsm freqs for different countries?
Jun 12 09:31:39 <fredsa> hi, I've got a problem with my pre
Jun 12 09:32:19 <fredsa> I installed a patch through preware to disable the radio so that my phone wouldn't try to use the network to update
Jun 12 09:32:42 <fredsa> Since I've uninstalled the patch, the phone remains offline and if I look in my settings I see that my phone number isn't listed
Jun 12 09:33:06 <fredsa> I presume that the patch I installed wiped my number.  Does anyone know how to set it up again or restore it?
Jun 12 09:35:52 <fredsa> ok, just tried to go in and out of aeroplane mode and the network is back. Panic over :)#
Jun 12 09:40:17 <jhojho> finally, a comprehensive list of gsm frequencies and coverage
Jun 12 09:40:18 <jhojho> http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml
Jun 12 10:28:37 <oil> http://lifehacker.com/5561282/iphone-vs-android-vs-webos-a-counterpoint
Jun 12 11:02:32 <rwhitby> oil: yeah, tweeted that earier today :)  Without preware it would be much worse ...
Jun 12 11:20:54 <yyuyu> hey guys, does anybody know an easy to follow guide to creating webos apps?
Jun 12 11:34:13 <rwhitby> yep, developer podcasts from Palm, or standard uni lectures from Palm
Jun 12 11:34:19 <rwhitby> all linked from developer.palm.com
Jun 12 11:34:29 <rwhitby> s/standard/stanford/
Jun 12 12:28:59 <aaron_> haha
Jun 12 12:29:11 <aaron_> i like how "webOS" was tacked onto the graphic
Jun 12 13:16:03 <airmack> rwhitby: and those lecture suck big times
Jun 12 13:16:54 <rwhitby> airmack: pardon?
Jun 12 13:17:27 <airmack> >13:34 <+rwhitby> yep, developer podcasts from Palm, or standard uni lectures from Palm
Jun 12 13:17:40 <rwhitby> what's wrong with the lectures
Jun 12 13:19:21 <airmack> have you seen 4. Developing WebOS Apps: Basics, SDK, Ares
Jun 12 13:19:51 <airmack> he is trying to do some live coding to show how easy it is
Jun 12 13:19:51 <rwhitby> I've only watched the first two so far
Jun 12 13:20:02 <airmack> but he can't get it working
Jun 12 13:20:22 <airmack> even after loading his code that he prepared before he can't get it working
Jun 12 13:20:31 <airmack> Best? part: 0:38:22
Jun 12 13:20:33 <airmack> And it will launch that app ... hmm *cut*
Jun 12 13:21:47 <airmack> and afterwards of course it is simple a mess, because who doesn't get nervous if nothing works...
Jun 12 13:29:06 <swisstomcat> heya
Jun 12 14:03:45 <bsm> hi, just out of interest, what is the /media/internal/.palm directory? is it mounted as cryptofs on /media/cryptofs?
Jun 12 14:04:40 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 12 14:06:12 <bsm> rwhitby: ah thanks. which key does it use on mounting? I mean, the key has to be in the system itself, so where is the purpose on encrypting the installed applications?
Jun 12 14:07:36 <rwhitby> to stop casual observers on the USB drive
Jun 12 14:07:54 <rwhitby> (i.e. those who plug it into a windows PC, but don't know what a Linux command line is)
Jun 12 14:08:17 <rwhitby> the key used is a permutation of nduid
Jun 12 14:08:47 <bsm> ah thanks, I didn't think so far as I use some keycode for unlocking my device.
Jun 12 14:09:19 <rwhitby> completely recoverable if you have physical access to the device (novacomd reports the nduid), or know it's nduid (e.g. some authors use it for account identification, even though palm tells them not to)
Jun 12 14:14:10 * rwhitby adds CUSTOM_ROOT_PARTITION and CUSTOM_VAR_PARTITION features to MetaDoctor ...
Jun 12 14:18:31 <punzada> o.O
Jun 12 14:20:27 <swisstomcat> nice
Jun 12 15:25:52 <swisstomcat_wirc> yay
Jun 12 15:26:49 <swisstomcat_wirc> wIRC rocks
Jun 12 15:27:08 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Jun 12 16:26:58 <kx250ryder> Has anyone attempted to retrieve SMS from the PalmDatabase.db3 file for archiving?  I've managed to get it to a CSV file I can view in Excel, but their timestamp system is Greek to me.  What algorithm must be applied to a number like 1267548131803  to turn it into a timestamp?
Jun 12 16:28:03 <rwhitby> kx250ryder: Use Save/Restore
Jun 12 16:28:33 <rwhitby> the timestamps are normal posix timestamps - seconds since the unix epoch
Jun 12 16:30:02 <kx250ryder> Sorry, I know nothing of SQL, Unix, etc, and am probably well over my head on this project.  Is there a method or mathematical formula I can paste into an exel file that turns a posix timestamp into date/time format?
Jun 12 16:54:35 <rwhitby> kx250ryder: it's the number of seconds since Jan 1 1970 GMT
Jun 12 16:56:27 <kx250ryder> I googled unix time, and found a formula that supposedly converts integer dates from Unix into real number dates for excel.  The problem is that it stays as a number.  When I try to apply any cell formatting under the time or date categories, it shows a bunch of # symbols.
Jun 12 16:57:55 <kx250ryder> Here's the formula: =(((C1/60)/60)/24)+DATE(1970,1,1)   When used against the UNIX time 1267548131803, it returns 14696264.97 to the cell.  However, Excel cannot seem to turn this number into a date as all the web pages suggest it can.
Jun 12 16:58:23 <kx250ryder> I suppose this has now become off topic for the webos-internals thread.
Jun 12 17:11:14 <bsm> kx250ryder: you have to select the type "date" for the cell where your formula is in
Jun 12 17:12:57 <kx250ryder> Aha, I believe the issue lies in my lack of understanding of the references between tables in SQL.  When I pasted the above timestamp value into a timestamp converter for UNIX I found online, the year comes back as 42137 (instead of 2010).  Quite a leap into the future.  Perhaps the timestamp field in the table  com_palm_pm_Folder Entry  is making a reference somewhere else to have some math applied to it to turn it into a 
Jun 12 17:21:46 <kx250ryder> Hmm.  Three different online converters given the value of 1267548131803 to convert to a date.  Two returned the date 40,000 plus years in the future (Mon, 31 Dec 42136 23:16:43), and one that got it right (Sat Jun 12 2010 10:16:27) for my time zone.  Is there more than one UNIX time?
Jun 12 17:37:09 <kx250ryder> Computers have gotten more precise over the years with their timestamps.  Traditional UNIX to Excel formulas expect timstamps in seconds.  Palm's is stored in milliseconds.
Jun 12 17:49:03 <kx250ryder> Got it!  Formula is =(UNIXDATE/86400000)+25569.  That takes a UNIX/Posix timestamp in milliseconds and converts it to Excel timestamp format.
Jun 12 18:17:11 <sk1tt1sh> quick question about ipks. should i have to make the md5sums for it or should they just appear
Jun 12 18:24:54 <uNiXpSyChO> why would it matter
Jun 12 18:26:39 <sk1tt1sh> dude! lol i just emailed you
Jun 12 18:28:07 <uNiXpSyChO> i would assume you need to create the md5 and add it to the doctor md5sum file.
Jun 12 18:43:30 <sk1tt1sh> just md5sum *file* right?
Jun 12 18:45:19 <uNiXpSyChO> yep... then add it to the main md5sum file.
Jun 12 18:45:27 <sk1tt1sh> the files in my ipk?
Jun 12 18:45:57 <uNiXpSyChO> just the ipk
Jun 12 18:46:09 <sk1tt1sh> the webosdoctor i have doesn't have any md5sums in it tho for the ipk??
Jun 12 18:47:45 <sk1tt1sh> the ipk is in sprint.tar and just copies files and scripts to a few different places. But when I make my ipk it does it but the rom verifyer fails on the files XD
Jun 12 18:47:51 <sk1tt1sh> im frustrated
Jun 12 18:48:33 <uNiXpSyChO> md5sum the sprint.tar
Jun 12 18:49:35 <uNiXpSyChO> i dont have the osdoctor in front of me so i cant remember.  but i do remember hacking it to put custom stuff in it.
Jun 12 18:50:29 <sk1tt1sh> so if the ipkg installs it works fine im just missing an md5sum somewhere in the doc?
Jun 12 18:50:29 <PuffTheMagic> what is control char ^I
Jun 12 18:51:11 <PuffTheMagic> nm
Jun 12 18:51:19 <uNiXpSyChO> yep
Jun 12 18:52:07 <PuffTheMagic> dcc file transfers in wirc are close
Jun 12 18:53:36 <sk1tt1sh> hrm ive got the doc that someone added their custom ipkg to sprint.tar and i'm looking through the modified files but i don't see anything referring to the files his ipk adds. i have no idea where the sprint.tar ipk would go either lol
Jun 12 18:54:56 <sk1tt1sh> in usr/lib/ipkg/info the luna.sysmgr and firstuse app are the only modified md5sum files but that's from the webosdoc i think
Jun 12 19:01:11 <sk1tt1sh> haha i just ran across a lunasysmgr hacked by xxrake
Jun 12 19:01:43 <uNiXpSyChO> that cant be good
Jun 12 19:01:55 <sk1tt1sh> just activation bypass haha
Jun 12 19:03:17 <sk1tt1sh> i hate you rom verifyer
Jun 12 19:20:08 <sk1tt1sh> where does rom verifyer check md5sums from?
Jun 12 20:23:30 <sk1tt1sh> Ok
Jun 12 20:23:37 <sk1tt1sh> Problem is absolutely with my ipk
Jun 12 20:24:06 <sk1tt1sh> I took the one that was added to another rom and put it in my rom and worked fine.
Jun 12 20:28:24 <sk1tt1sh> hrm
Jun 12 20:52:22 <bsm> hey, webos has some internal timers for actions like "wakeup and get RSS feeds or mail etc", is there some way to read the next occuring events? I'm interested in how these are scheduled
Jun 12 23:22:23 <sk1tt1sh> uNiXpSyChO: you still on?
Jun 13 00:29:31 <rwhitby> morning
Jun 13 00:30:23 <sk1tt1sh> sup
Jun 13 00:32:57 <jhojho> re
Jun 13 00:36:03 <jhojho> holy cow
Jun 13 00:36:20 <jhojho> starting ubuntu 10.04 under vmware took like 5 seconds
Jun 13 00:36:26 <jhojho> im impressed
Jun 13 00:49:36 <jhojho> rwhitby:  which arm toolchain are you using to compile uberkernel?
Jun 13 00:49:59 <rwhitby> 2007q3, the same as Palm uses for the rootfs
Jun 13 00:50:16 <rwhitby> jhojho: sbromwich uses a later version of cs toolchain for his experimental kernel
Jun 13 00:50:51 <jhojho> ok
Jun 13 00:51:52 <jhojho> is http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK the recommended way to set up a cross compile env now?
Jun 13 00:52:34 <rwhitby> jhojho: that or preware/build.git
Jun 13 00:54:51 <jhojho> preware/build.git   toolchain?
Jun 13 00:55:25 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 13 01:06:05 <sk1tt1sh> build.git is tough to use if you're a noob like me :p lol
Jun 13 01:06:28 <rwhitby> sk1tt1sh: cross-compile.git is easier?
Jun 13 01:07:18 <sk1tt1sh> idk
Jun 13 01:07:29 <sk1tt1sh> i got about teh same distance on either
Jun 13 01:07:52 <sk1tt1sh> so i signed my ipk with the appsigning-bundle.crt lol
Jun 13 01:07:59 <sk1tt1sh> about to try it hahaha
Jun 13 01:08:12 <rwhitby> orly - you got the private key from somewhere?
Jun 13 01:08:20 <sk1tt1sh> no
Jun 13 01:08:25 <sk1tt1sh> i just did the -s on it
Jun 13 01:08:59 <sk1tt1sh> can i use the org.webosinternals.crt and key? ifso...where to downloda?
Jun 13 01:09:20 <rwhitby> yeah, right.  we're really going to give you the key to be able to sign things as webos internals ...
Jun 13 01:09:26 <sk1tt1sh> rofl
Jun 13 01:09:37 <sk1tt1sh> that's what i thought but i thought i'd throw it out there
Jun 13 01:10:11 <sk1tt1sh> when i tried this tho ipkg-build didn't like it
Jun 13 01:10:13 <sk1tt1sh> openssl req -x509 -nodes -days 365 -newkey rsa:1024 -keyout mycert.pem -out mycert.pem
Jun 13 01:10:13 <sk1tt1sh> extract the public key
Jun 13 01:10:13 <sk1tt1sh> openssl rsa -in mycert.pem -pubout -out pubkey.pem
Jun 13 01:10:26 <sk1tt1sh> said it wanted something about trusted
Jun 13 01:11:18 <rwhitby> sk1tt1sh: you should look at the latest metadoctor to see how to add your CA
Jun 13 01:12:18 <sk1tt1sh> in the make?
Jun 13 01:12:44 <rwhitby> just look at the latest commits in git
Jun 13 01:13:22 <sk1tt1sh> like netstat.git or something
Jun 13 01:14:31 <sk1tt1sh> ok im looking at netstat
Jun 13 01:15:50 <sk1tt1sh> ...
Jun 13 01:15:57 <sk1tt1sh> grr im screwed
Jun 13 01:16:07 <sk1tt1sh> idk wtf to even look for.
Jun 13 01:16:12 <sk1tt1sh> sorry i bug you so much
Jun 13 01:18:26 <rwhitby> sk1tt1sh: tools/meta-doctor.git latest commits
Jun 13 01:26:26 <jhojho> rwhitby: do you know if sbromwich uses the 2009 toolchain or 2010?
Jun 13 01:27:08 <rwhitby> jhojho: his Makefile in preware/build.git/testing-kernels/sbromwich-kernel-pre/ will say
Jun 13 01:30:38 <jhojho> it's the 2008
Jun 13 01:46:02 <sk1tt1sh> FML! Jun 12, 2010 7:44:36 PM com.palm.nova.installer.recoverytool.CardController logP
Jun 13 01:46:02 <sk1tt1sh> rint
Jun 13 01:46:03 <sk1tt1sh> INFO: ROM Verifyer: Starting Check of ROM
Jun 13 01:46:03 <sk1tt1sh> Jun 12, 2010 7:45:21 PM com.palm.nova.installer.recoverytool.CardController logP
Jun 13 01:46:03 <sk1tt1sh> rint
Jun 13 01:46:03 <sk1tt1sh> INFO: ROM Verifyer: *./usr/bin/bc: FAILED
Jun 13 01:49:04 <sk1tt1sh> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Packaging_Homebrew_Apps_for_Stock_Pre_without_Rooting
Jun 13 01:49:09 <sk1tt1sh> NO!
Jun 13 02:01:24 <Marajin> no what?
Jun 13 02:04:23 <jhojho> rwhitby:  I dont suppose you want to add this release to the repo...
Jun 13 02:04:24 <jhojho> http://www.codesourcery.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/release1293
Jun 13 02:04:50 <jhojho> * Significant improvements to ARMv7-A performance and reductions in Thumb-2 code size.
Jun 13 02:08:09 <uNiXpSyChO> ooooooooh.  and i thought 2009 was good.  this just came out!!!  time to start build new F105 kernel!
Jun 13 02:09:47 <Robi_> F105 is behaving quite well altho there are some glitches
Jun 13 02:10:16 <uNiXpSyChO> how?  no one has F105... it doesnt even exist yet.
Jun 13 02:11:10 <Robi_> sorry, F104, typo
Jun 13 02:24:00 <jhojho> uNiXpSyChO: cool. i was waiting for you to show up
Jun 13 02:24:21 <uNiXpSyChO> oh oh
Jun 13 02:24:42 <jhojho> I was wondering if it was time for a psychokernel package. something more than UK but packaged up nicely.
Jun 13 02:25:11 <jhojho> maybe UK + just compcache using latest toolchain
Jun 13 02:25:31 <uNiXpSyChO> its a pain in the ass
Jun 13 02:26:13 <jhojho> havent looked at the compcache patches so ...
Jun 13 02:26:37 <uNiXpSyChO> no, compcache is easy.  its mingling it with the autobuilder
Jun 13 02:27:13 <uNiXpSyChO> i dont think rwhitby will want UK to use newest toolchain as its not what Palm uses
Jun 13 02:27:30 <jhojho> thats why I'm suggesting a different kernel name
Jun 13 02:27:53 <jhojho> sbromwich's kernel uses a newer toolchain
Jun 13 02:28:03 <jhojho> and it's autobuilt. (i think)
Jun 13 02:28:12 <uNiXpSyChO> and so dont my kernels that everyone wants
Jun 13 02:28:23 <jhojho> http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=testing-kernels/sbromwich-kernel-pre/Makefile;h=7ab8ef7d421e9509526933e1a35d7f95cc551a71;hb=HEAD
Jun 13 02:28:49 <uNiXpSyChO> its a pain in the ass to make a moving target kernel autobuild
Jun 13 02:28:59 <ka6sox> oohyeha
Jun 13 02:29:29 <jhojho> well is compcache stablized or are you continuing to change it?
Jun 13 02:30:28 <uNiXpSyChO> rwhitby wants some backing-store checks before it hits uber.  but compcache requires userspace scripts to activate it.  that is currently not in the autobuilder
Jun 13 02:31:23 <jhojho> AH.
Jun 13 02:31:41 <jhojho> did not know that...
Jun 13 02:32:15 <uNiXpSyChO> so everytime i add some experimental hack that requires some voodoo dancing around userspace apps it would take an overhaul of the autobuilder.  and this is just for the testing kernels, nevermind Uber.
Jun 13 02:33:46 <jhojho> ah. I see now. http://code.google.com/p/compcache/wiki/CompilingAndUsing
Jun 13 02:33:51 <jhojho> man thats a hassle
Jun 13 02:34:02 * ka6sox sees oil rolling over with Govnah.
Jun 13 02:35:25 * uNiXpSyChO cracks open a bottle of Boone's
Jun 13 02:37:13 * oil is rolling over with what?
Jun 13 02:40:01 <ka6sox> making changes with every compcache change for controlling compcache
Jun 13 02:40:31 <oil> its dynamic, no
Jun 13 02:40:32 <oil> ?
Jun 13 02:41:07 * uNiXpSyChO stumbles out of the room
Jun 13 02:41:08 <oil> it will work with whatever the service tells it is writeable
Jun 13 02:41:30 <oil> if it doesn't recognize it, its form element is just a text box for entry of whatever
Jun 13 02:41:40 <ka6sox> k
Jun 13 02:42:04 <oil> and we can add them to the ones it knows how to format in a later release
Jun 13 02:42:26 <uNiXpSyChO> it has to edit a script for startup
Jun 13 02:44:33 <oil> edit what script?
Jun 13 02:44:48 <oil> like the "stickey" profile thing?
Jun 13 02:44:57 <uNiXpSyChO> kinda
Jun 13 02:45:07 <oil> well, the service will need to do the writing
Jun 13 02:45:10 <oil> but govnah can tell it what to do
Jun 13 02:45:33 <uNiXpSyChO> if a user wants to change how much ram to use for compcache then it has to edit event.d script or maybe change it on the fly, which can get ugly.
Jun 13 02:46:24 <uNiXpSyChO> or even turn off compcache
Jun 13 02:51:22 <rwhitby> oil: we're thinking of adding kernel module loading and unloading to Govnah
Jun 13 02:51:30 <jhojho> it would be nice if govnah could set the io and tcp schedulers
Jun 13 02:52:01 <oil> so what, a list scene with toggles?
Jun 13 02:52:14 * uNiXpSyChO oil is rolling over
Jun 13 02:52:19 <jhojho> lol
Jun 13 02:53:41 <rwhitby> oil: yeah, similar to freq list, we can get the scheduler list and select between them
Jun 13 02:54:04 <rwhitby> oil: for modules, it'd be a list with toggles and a save settings
Jun 13 02:55:52 * oil knows rwhitby knows how to make a toggle list :)
Jun 13 02:56:04 <rwhitby> uNiXpSyChO: mind if I extract the actual files out of the compcache054 patch and put them as files in the git repo?
Jun 13 02:56:27 <uNiXpSyChO> sure
Jun 13 02:57:23 <rwhitby> jhojho meet ka6sox, ka6sox meet jhojho.  Re: SysHealth
Jun 13 02:57:39 <ka6sox> hiya jhojho
Jun 13 02:57:45 <jhojho> hey
Jun 13 02:58:26 <jhojho> ka6sox: rwhitby suggested that I talk to you bout syshealth. have some ideas bout things for cleanup.
Jun 13 02:58:51 <rwhitby> jhojho: git:applications/syshealth.git is the current state
Jun 13 02:59:02 <jhojho> looking at it
Jun 13 02:59:53 <ka6sox> jhojho, go ahead I'm quite interested in expanding what syshealth does.
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