**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 20 02:59:56 2010
Jun 20 03:10:00 <pedroleone> hi!
Jun 20 03:11:55 <pedroleone> bell canada has a deal right now when you buy the old palm pre, and i wanted to know if it's a good option for a smartphone
Jun 20 03:12:11 <pedroleone> and as a linux user
Jun 20 03:14:56 <pedroleone> "Palm does not see this as a bad thing. Palm provides all these tools for download by anyone, anytime, for free."
Jun 20 03:15:00 <pedroleone> that's really good
Jun 20 03:15:08 <pedroleone> i hate apple politics
Jun 20 03:15:28 <Kyusaku> as a linux user it's very easy to access the linux backend on the device
Jun 20 03:18:28 <Kyusaku> you turn on developer mode that is somewhat hidden(not in the menus, need to type "webos20090606")
Jun 20 03:19:00 <Kyusaku> and basically you can get terminal access if you connect the device via USB to a computer
Jun 20 03:20:09 <pedroleone> ok, i read that battery life and the slider(oreo thing) is bad on it
Jun 20 03:20:17 <pedroleone> also the quality of the palm pre could be better
Jun 20 03:20:22 <pedroleone> what do you think of the 1st generation palm pre?
Jun 20 03:23:15 <pedroleone> can you have a terminal from the palm easily? instead of ssh'ing into it?
Jun 20 03:23:50 <Kyusaku> there are 2 apps you can use a terminal directly on the device
Jun 20 03:23:58 <Kyusaku> you don't have to set up SSH
Jun 20 03:24:11 <ka6sox-wIRC> http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/243675-compcache-kernel-experimental-42.html
Jun 20 03:24:20 <Kyusaku> what I described before doesn't require SSH
Jun 20 03:24:43 <pedroleone> ok just checking
Jun 20 03:24:44 <Kyusaku> the SSH solution is purely a wireless terminal solution
Jun 20 03:25:12 <pedroleone> the ssh could be useful when you want to use a real keyboard to setup stuff more easily, or copy paste stuff i guess from  your compter ,et c..
Jun 20 03:25:33 <Tman> ka6sox-wIRC: wow..
Jun 20 03:26:00 <Kyusaku> pedroleone: if you don't want to use a USB cable to connect to the device
Jun 20 03:27:46 <Kyusaku> pedroleone: like I said previously you could turn on developer mode on the device, hook it up to a USB port on your linux box, open up a terminal and start up novaterm and you're logged into your device.
Jun 20 03:28:26 <ka6sox-wIRC> yup  need pix of the water tubes.
Jun 20 03:28:26 <pedroleone> ok pretty cool
Jun 20 03:28:46 <Kyusaku> pedroleone: from there you could set up SSH so you can do your terminal stuff wirelessly
Jun 20 03:29:43 <pedroleone> how good is the palm for setup of alerts(email/sms filtering?)
Jun 20 03:29:57 <pedroleone> is it similar to blackberry?
Jun 20 03:30:12 <Kyusaku> in what way
Jun 20 03:30:36 <pedroleone> if you want to filter email... like for someone that receives email alerts such as a sysadmin
Jun 20 03:30:53 <Kyusaku> I don't think you can filter out SMSes
Jun 20 03:31:12 <pedroleone> perform an action, when you get a critical emailf or example... like beeping or whatever
Jun 20 03:32:12 <Kyusaku> you can customize alerts for specific accounts but nothing in the way of certain types of email or from certain people
Jun 20 03:32:45 <pedroleone> keywords?
Jun 20 03:32:48 <Kyusaku> I wonder if a patch could be made to do that...
Jun 20 03:33:11 <pedroleone> you could probably do a script that goes through the emails in the backgroudn
Jun 20 03:33:48 <Kyusaku> probably, I don't think anyone had really taken it upon themselves to take on something like that
Jun 20 03:36:00 <Kyusaku> the email app can discern between a regular email and one marked as important/critical
Jun 20 03:36:23 <Kyusaku> so it might be possible
Jun 20 03:36:43 <pedroleone> ok
Jun 20 03:36:55 <oddalot> hehe, got some annoying people emailing you?
Jun 20 03:37:13 <pedroleone> NoOneButMe, admins usually get email alerts
Jun 20 03:37:26 <pedroleone> you know like when a server is down
Jun 20 03:37:26 <Kyusaku> alerts from servers or something
Jun 20 03:37:32 <pedroleone> so you need to wake up and fix it
Jun 20 03:37:39 <oddalot> ahhh
Jun 20 03:37:51 <pedroleone> kinda annoying, but it's part of the job
Jun 20 03:38:11 <pedroleone> anyways the pre looks like the most fun of the phones
Jun 20 03:38:30 <oddalot> most elegant imo
Jun 20 03:38:38 <pedroleone> anything i should know before i buy the pre?
Jun 20 03:38:52 <oddalot> but a touchstone
Jun 20 03:38:53 <pedroleone> i read that you can get better battery life with a custom kernel
Jun 20 03:38:58 <oddalot> buy*
Jun 20 03:39:24 <Kyusaku> pedroleone: in regards to hardware, it's not perfect there are some issues, but mine hasn't broken and I've had it for over a year. You should be advised that you would be purchasing 1+ year old hardware in terms of CPU etc.
Jun 20 03:40:01 <pedroleone> Kyusaku,  yeah i don't really mind... there's a good deal with it, phone is free and there's a 15$ monthly rebate
Jun 20 03:40:25 <pedroleone> free as in you need to sign a  3y contract
Jun 20 03:40:28 <Kyusaku> the custom kernel developers generally spend their time here
Jun 20 03:40:48 <pedroleone> ok
Jun 20 03:41:13 <Kyusaku> they've done work for battery savings, overclocking, and expanding memory threshold
Jun 20 03:41:17 <oddalot> radioshack had the touchstone on saie for 15 dollars, but they were selling out
Jun 20 03:41:29 <pedroleone> whats the touchstone?
Jun 20 03:41:42 <Kyusaku> it's charging unit
Jun 20 03:41:48 <oddalot> wireless charger, it's so much better than having to plug it in with the cord
Jun 20 03:41:56 <pedroleone> isn't it dangerous?
Jun 20 03:42:02 <oddalot> no
Jun 20 03:42:17 <pedroleone> i read about it earlier just didn't remember
Jun 20 03:42:18 <oddalot> small magnetic fields
Jun 20 03:42:19 <pedroleone> the name
Jun 20 03:42:20 <pedroleone> ok
Jun 20 03:42:37 <oddalot> you have transformers bigger than that all around i bet
Jun 20 03:43:17 <oddalot> of course they don't move the flux through the air hehe
Jun 20 03:54:04 <ka6sox-wIRC> still waiting for all that free wireless power
Jun 20 04:06:15 <pedroleone> i heard that tesla had it
Jun 20 04:06:19 <pedroleone> but it was somewhat dangerous
Jun 20 04:07:29 <oddalot> not really
Jun 20 04:07:51 <oddalot> he was using the same technology palm is using to induce a current
Jun 20 04:08:13 <oddalot> he did theorize about using the earths resonance to transmit power
Jun 20 04:08:25 <oddalot> but he never accomplished it past theory
Jun 20 04:09:04 <ka6sox-wIRC> ya tesla was a bit ahead of his time
Jun 20 04:09:46 <oddalot> i named my cat tesla
Jun 20 04:10:02 <oddalot> but everyone thinks it's named after the band
Jun 20 04:14:32 <ka6sox-wIRC> his earthquake machine was kinda wierd
Jun 20 04:44:34 * phil_bw wanders by
Jun 20 04:45:59 <ka6sox-wIRC> hi
Jun 20 07:56:59 <shay_> i am lost
Jun 20 07:57:21 <shay_> how do  get me phone to post the time and date for messages
Jun 20 10:18:13 * jhojho looks around for a palm kernel employee...
Jun 20 14:03:21 <Famic_> how can I have a terminal to interact with my pre ?
Jun 20 14:15:41 <yokken> novaterm
Jun 20 14:16:04 <yokken> Famic_: enable developer mode on your device, install the SDK to your computer, and run novaterm
Jun 20 14:16:08 <yokken> what OS are you on?
Jun 20 14:16:54 <Famic_> yokken: I'm on windows, and I'd like to use putty or such to connect
Jun 20 14:17:32 <yokken> i see.
Jun 20 14:17:42 <yokken> do you have the sdk installed?
Jun 20 14:17:47 <Famic_> yes
Jun 20 14:18:29 <yokken> awesome
Jun 20 14:18:38 <yokken> have dev mode enabled?
Jun 20 14:18:43 <yokken> have pre connected via usb?
Jun 20 14:18:55 <Famic_> yep
Jun 20 14:18:56 <rwhitby> http://install.preware.org/ then install OpenSSH and follow the instructions on the Homepage link for that package.
Jun 20 14:19:06 <yokken> alright well i don't know about
Jun 20 14:19:10 <yokken> okay then
Jun 20 14:19:14 <yokken> PERSONALLY
Jun 20 14:19:23 <yokken> i found the private key authentication a pain in the ass
Jun 20 14:19:33 <yokken> and it messed up ssh on my entire machine
Jun 20 14:19:36 <yokken> so yeah cool
Jun 20 14:19:41 <yokken> but Famic_:
Jun 20 14:19:46 <yokken> novacom -t open tty://
Jun 20 14:19:48 <yokken> in cmd
Jun 20 14:19:55 <rwhitby> yokken: what messed up ssh on your entire machine?
Jun 20 14:19:56 <yokken> should put you right in
Jun 20 14:20:15 <yokken> rwhitby: know how passwords are disabled, and you have to set up the private key authentication?
Jun 20 14:20:25 <yokken> there were no instructions for mac, only windows, putty
Jun 20 14:20:27 <Famic_> yokken: that works fine, I'm just trying to do the same thing with a decent client
Jun 20 14:20:31 <yokken> so i had to figure it out myself
Jun 20 14:20:40 <Famic_> like putty
Jun 20 14:20:43 <yokken> and now everytime i ssh to a server
Jun 20 14:20:46 <rwhitby> yokken: instructions for setting up ssh keys are plentiful on the internet for all platforms
Jun 20 14:20:53 <yokken> a little window pops up with something like id_rsa
Jun 20 14:21:01 <yokken> and asks me to put in a password to access the key
Jun 20 14:21:08 <yokken> i hit esc and just go about my business
Jun 20 14:21:15 <yokken> log into server etc
Jun 20 14:21:20 <yokken> but it's just annoying
Jun 20 14:21:30 <rwhitby> so turn it off then
Jun 20 14:21:34 <yokken> lol
Jun 20 14:22:11 <yokken> i can't just "turn it off"
Jun 20 14:22:25 <rwhitby> or read the Mac OSX documentation of ssh keys and your keyring
Jun 20 14:22:38 <yokken> it involves putting a file in my home directory and all this garbage
Jun 20 14:22:42 <yokken> it's not a big deal
Jun 20 14:22:55 <yokken> i'm not all security paranoid
Jun 20 14:22:56 <rwhitby> (hint: your Mac OSX keyring can store the passphrase for your ssh key, just like it stores passwords for web sites)
Jun 20 14:23:04 <yokken> i don't need to use private key authentication
Jun 20 14:23:10 <Famic_> where are the infos from Mojo.Log stored in the filesystem ?
Jun 20 14:23:20 <yokken> i just couldn't find instructions on how to enable passwords
Jun 20 14:23:25 <yokken> so i just don't have ssh on my phone now
Jun 20 14:23:46 <rwhitby> yokken: that's great for you.  As the group who distributes the openssh server for webOS, we don't want another apple iPhone openssh worm incident thanks.
Jun 20 14:24:04 <yokken> i understand the whole alpine problem
Jun 20 14:24:13 <yokken> i had an iphone before my blackberry before my pre
Jun 20 14:24:24 <yokken> don't you use the dropbear ssh server?
Jun 20 14:24:30 <yokken> or is dropbear just an ftp server?
Jun 20 14:24:40 <rwhitby> we support both dropbear and openssh, but recommend openssh
Jun 20 14:25:49 <rwhitby> dropbear is in general better for embedded devices, but has a nasty requirement to have a root password even if you have passwords disabled in the ssh server configuration, and Palm has a habit of clearing the root password on each webOS update, causing access to dropbear to be disabled.
Jun 20 14:26:14 <yokken> speaking of updates
Jun 20 14:26:20 <yokken> would you know when 1.5 is coming?
Jun 20 14:26:23 <rwhitby> So we recommend openssh and use key authentication, and it stays enabled no matter what Palm does in their webOS updates.
Jun 20 14:26:31 <yokken> or is it 1.4.5 that's coming soon?
Jun 20 14:26:45 <rwhitby> why would you ask me to violate an NDA?
Jun 20 14:26:59 <yokken> woah buddy
Jun 20 14:27:01 <yokken> i didn't ask that
Jun 20 14:27:08 <yokken> i asked if you WOULD know, i didn't ask when
Jun 20 14:27:15 <rwhitby> anyone who knows the answers to those questions are under an NDA
Jun 20 14:27:19 <yokken> and i didn't know it was under NDA
Jun 20 14:27:23 <yokken> my apologies
Jun 20 14:27:31 <rwhitby> no harm, no foul.
Jun 20 14:27:57 <rwhitby> it's just not a question that can be answered in a publicly logged channel
Jun 20 14:28:17 <yokken> tell me if you can't answer this
Jun 20 14:28:23 <yokken> do you know what the next version # is?
Jun 20 14:29:11 <yokken> according to multiple sites it's 1.4.5 so ignore that
Jun 20 14:29:32 <rwhitby> There have been rumours reported at various sites stating what the next webOS version is.  Of course, no-one really knows cause Palm could easily change it at the last minute.
Jun 20 14:29:51 <yokken> good answer ;)
Jun 20 14:30:19 <yokken> OH i have a question just out of curiosity
Jun 20 14:30:28 <yokken> what OS do you mainly work on?
Jun 20 14:30:44 <yokken> i'd have to guess some linux distro but a guy can hope for mac, haha
Jun 20 14:31:03 <yokken> and yes technically it's bsd-based but i'm not concerned with semantics
Jun 20 14:33:35 <rwhitby> I use a MacBook Pre 15" 2.8GHz 8GB RAM laptop as my main interface to MacOSX, Linux and Windows, both locally on the machine and in many other places world-wide.
Jun 20 14:33:40 <rwhitby> s/Pre/Pro/
Jun 20 14:33:40 <infobot> rwhitby meant: I use a MacBook Pro 15" 2.8GHz 8GB RAM laptop as my main interface to MacOSX, Linux and Windows, both locally on the machine and in many other places world-wide.
Jun 20 14:34:03 <rwhitby> I use VirtualBox on the laptop to host the other OS's.
Jun 20 16:47:25 <Jonny-TX> hi
Jun 20 16:47:42 <Jonny-TX> I have a problem
Jun 20 16:48:04 <Jonny-TX> I want to execute a SH-script with my app
Jun 20 16:48:22 <Jonny-TX> how should I do that?
Jun 20 16:49:12 <Jonny-TX> hi
Jun 20 16:49:19 <bpadalino> add a listener to the public bus which can execute the script
Jun 20 16:49:42 <Jonny-TX> Do I need a service?
Jun 20 16:49:57 <bpadalino> you can try doing pdk/hybrid apps ..
Jun 20 16:50:29 <Jonny-TX> the app shall edit the hosts file
Jun 20 16:51:08 <bpadalino> neat
Jun 20 16:51:36 <bpadalino> you aren't looking to put this into the app catalog, right ?
Jun 20 16:51:41 <Jonny-TX> no
Jun 20 16:51:45 <bpadalino> excellent
Jun 20 16:51:45 <Jonny-TX> only preware
Jun 20 16:52:06 <Jonny-TX> it's a blocker for metrix
Jun 20 16:52:28 <bpadalino> to disable sending data back to palm ?
Jun 20 16:52:44 <Jonny-TX> not palm
Jun 20 16:52:48 <Jonny-TX> webosroundup
Jun 20 16:52:53 <bpadalino> oh, ok
Jun 20 16:53:06 <Jonny-TX> metrix store the device id
Jun 20 16:53:06 <bpadalino> will it just edit the hosts file once ?
Jun 20 16:53:24 <Jonny-TX> it's a little bit tricky
Jun 20 16:53:34 <Jonny-TX> I made some sh-scripts
Jun 20 16:53:53 <Jonny-TX> they'll edit the hosts
Jun 20 16:53:57 <bpadalino> i see
Jun 20 16:54:48 <Jonny-TX> the app has to execute a sh-script with parameters
Jun 20 16:55:27 <bpadalino> ok
Jun 20 16:56:22 <Jonny-TX> i want to execute the script after a button tap
Jun 20 16:56:33 <Jonny-TX> how can i make this work?
Jun 20 16:56:52 <bpadalino> do you know C ?
Jun 20 16:57:25 <Jonny-TX> a little bit :)
Jun 20 16:58:03 <bpadalino> take a look at the preware C service, how it attaches to the bus and presents its methods ..
Jun 20 16:58:08 <Kyutwo> isn't there a patch that already edits hosts file?
Jun 20 16:58:34 <bpadalino> no idea
Jun 20 16:58:54 <Jonny-TX> ok
Jun 20 16:59:36 <Jonny-TX> another question: how can i create a service ipk?
Jun 20 17:02:43 <Jonny-TX> hm?
Jun 20 17:04:10 <bpadalino> check out the way preware does it ... other than that, i have no extra insights
Jun 20 17:05:59 <Kyutwo> there is an ad blocker patch that adds hosts to host file
Jun 20 17:10:12 <Jonny-TX> yes, but my app have some toggle buttons
Jun 20 17:10:31 <Jonny-TX> the user can make a whitelist
Jun 20 17:14:03 <flare576> hello all, happy USA Fathers Day and Happy Sunday to the other nations!
Jun 20 17:14:28 <MetaView> well, thx
Jun 20 17:16:12 <flare576> question about Kernals:  I'm attempting to upgrade from one version of uber to another, but am having a hard time finding docs on it.  I've found stuff for testing feed as well as initial uber install, but nothing on incremental upgrade.  Do I just need to go back to stock first to see the new ones in list of everything?
Jun 20 17:21:15 <flare576> infobot flare576
Jun 20 17:21:16 <infobot> flare576 thinks he is a stupid user. I don't think he's that bad.
Jun 20 17:21:33 <Kyutwo> uber should be able to replace itself
Jun 20 17:21:46 <MetaView> infobot metaview
Jun 20 17:21:47 <infobot> rumour has it, metaview is the Duke
Jun 20 17:21:56 <MetaView> well done :D
Jun 20 17:22:02 <Kyutwo> the precautions stated on the forums are for people who use other kernels
Jun 20 17:22:50 <flare576> hmm, is there a separate kernals testing feed? i'm not seeing the compeche (sp) versions.
Jun 20 17:26:31 <Kyutwo> yes
Jun 20 17:30:07 <flare576> ah, found it.  had to poke around the folder listings for a bit
Jun 20 17:32:18 <flare576> odd, I wasn't aware some regions had 1.4.3
Jun 20 17:32:37 <flare576> or even 1.4.1.3
Jun 20 17:39:07 <flare576> I notice that for optware and normal webos internals there are 2 urls listed ("all" and the v6/v7).  is there a way to do that with the testing feeds from inside preware?  I've tried using the enter key as well as copy/paste with cariage return, neither worked.
Jun 20 17:39:41 <Kyutwo> ?
Jun 20 17:40:23 <HattCzech> do it through the terminal
Jun 20 17:40:47 <HattCzech> (so not, not from inside preware)
Jun 20 17:40:54 <HattCzech> so no*
Jun 20 17:41:30 <flare576> yeah, I figured as much.  double-adding with the same "name" was the last idea I came up with, and that didn't work either.
Jun 20 17:42:08 <Kyutwo> can't you just be creative with names?
Jun 20 17:42:56 <flare576> sure, but why take up 2 spaces for the same thing?
Jun 20 17:43:16 <flare576> plus, there's the super-anal need for uniformity!
Jun 20 17:43:32 <Kyutwo> as HattCzech suggests you'll have to go into the dir with the feeds and edit them
Jun 20 17:43:58 <flare576> yeah, just gotta find the dir, haven't been on the cli for a while
Jun 20 17:44:50 <Kyutwo> check /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/
Jun 20 17:45:05 <flare576> nice, thank you!
Jun 20 17:52:22 <flare576> awesome, worked great :)  thanks for pointing me in the right directions guys :)
Jun 20 17:53:02 <flare576> all from on-device, including IRC, from webos internals :D
Jun 20 17:53:44 <flare576> time to upgrade a kernal }:)
Jun 20 19:47:04 <ka6sox2> I don't think I would want the Pre to be my main computer but it will do in a pinch (like when your laptop HD dies)
Jun 20 19:51:13 * uNiXpSyChO wanders by
Jun 20 19:55:37 <MetaView> there was a way to launch the appcat o nthe device...
Jun 20 20:09:26 <BeeRad> So let me get this straight....I said I wanted 1+ghz OC on my Pre and I got brow beat for it. Now, its cool and cutting edge. LOL
Jun 20 20:11:30 <ka6sox2> BeeRad  trying to route the water tubes inside the pre is almost impossible
Jun 20 20:13:18 <BeeRad> Bah! lol Just use doubled sided tape and a cpu fan. Rewire it to feed off of the 2600mah Seidio battery. Good to go.
Jun 20 20:13:58 <dtzWill> MetaView: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/launch {\"id\":\"
Jun 20 20:14:02 <dtzWill> com.palm.app.findapps\"}
Jun 20 20:14:09 <dtzWill> ...sorry for line break
Jun 20 20:34:46 <BeeRad> I'm having a repeated issue where my phone is charging at 250mhz and it stays there. It won't ever make the jump up to 800. It started with 0.4.7 Just reporting, not complaining.
Jun 20 20:35:47 <airmack> BeeRad: mHz????
Jun 20 20:36:31 <BeeRad> 250/800 SS
Jun 20 20:37:15 <BeeRad> When the phone is charging and screen shuts off, the SS dips to 250mhz. When the phone wakes up again, it stays at 250. It doesnt ramp back up.
Jun 20 20:39:10 <BeeRad> (I was referring to the th CPU speed..sorry)
Jun 20 20:48:14 <Abyssul> rwhitby: ping
Jun 20 21:19:07 <bsiegel-wirc> Hey, who's doing the new warthogkernel?
Jun 20 21:28:52 <uNiXpSyChO> jhojho
Jun 20 21:31:08 <BeeRad> ?
Jun 20 22:11:29 <jhojho> uNiXpSyChO: yes
Jun 20 22:11:41 <jhojho> ?
Jun 20 22:11:56 <uNiXpSyChO> jhojho: now i forgot :-/
Jun 20 22:12:09 <jhojho> bsiegel: per uNiXpSyChO I'm prodding warthog
Jun 20 22:12:33 <uNiXpSyChO> oh yeah...  i was answering that question
Jun 20 22:13:18 * uNiXpSyChO doing a linpack on 1.05GHz kernel
Jun 20 22:20:53 <jhojho> nice
Jun 20 22:21:07 <jhojho> let me know what you get and I can update the gists
Jun 20 22:21:13 <Abyssul> rwhitby: can you take a look at this thread? http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2516738&posted=1#post2514804
Jun 20 22:21:33 <jhojho> unixpsycho: please also do a coremark test run on that kernel
Jun 20 22:23:24 <MetaView> when are the submitted patches approved?
Jun 20 22:36:36 <uNiXpSyChO> jhojho: Unrolled Single  Precision 50490 Kflops ; 100 Reps
Jun 20 22:50:11 <jhojho> linpack numbers for pre and pixi using different arm toolchains
Jun 20 22:50:12 <jhojho> http://gist.github.com/443429
Jun 20 22:50:22 <jhojho> pixi is the champ currently =)
Jun 20 22:50:22 <Abyssul> MetaView: When DBsooner feels like it
Jun 20 22:51:29 <ka6sox-mobile> Go Pixi!
Jun 20 22:51:55 <uNiXpSyChO> pixi is for girlz
Jun 20 22:52:28 <ka6sox-mobile> heh
Jun 20 22:53:09 <Abyssul> wow, impressive from the Pixi
Jun 20 23:12:54 <jhojho> I want an eu banded gsm pixi plus
Jun 20 23:13:13 <jhojho> with extended battery and compcache.
Jun 20 23:13:19 <jhojho> and I'll be good to go =)
Jun 20 23:29:51 <DoMC> morning
Jun 20 23:30:25 <DoMC> anyone here with experience porting Qt apps to Pre?
Jun 20 23:49:03 <dtzWill> DoMC: GL sir, it'd be great to see people working on that again
Jun 20 23:49:09 <dtzWill> DoMC: I do not, sorry. just encouragement :)
Jun 21 00:17:17 <rwhitby> uNiXpSyChO: so the Pixi is leading the Linpack benchmarking, hey?  600MHz Pixi is faster than 1050MHz Pre
Jun 21 00:17:41 <uNiXpSyChO> i am speechless
Jun 21 00:17:44 <rwhitby> Watch the reaction if I tweet those figures :)
Jun 21 00:22:56 <rwhitby> uNiXpSyChO: so, have you seen any issues with Govnah 0.4.8 in your usage?
Jun 21 00:23:25 <rwhitby> uNiXpSyChO: I'm figuring we add sticky compcache to Govnah, and have F10x disable their compcache if that file exists, and then we should be close to a public release
Jun 21 00:24:00 <BeeRad> rwhitby: Hola.
Jun 21 00:24:09 <rwhitby> hey BeeRad how as camping?
Jun 21 00:25:19 <BeeRad> Hot and wet. 105*F heat index on day one when we set up, and later that night had horrible thunderstorms. Rain was coming down so fast it was 1" in about 20min. Day 2 was awesome. Go figure.
Jun 21 00:28:21 <BeeRad> rwhitby: I hope you do Tweet those results. Pixi = a badass in sheeps clothing. lol
Jun 21 00:29:00 <rwhitby> BeeRad: BTW, I was pulling your leg about the releases on the weekend.
Jun 21 00:31:09 <BeeRad> rwhitby: Well, there WERE some releases...just nothing earth shattering. Wanna know how much I love this stuff? I was DLing updates over 1x. It was horrific. haha
Jun 21 00:32:09 <uNiXpSyChO> rwhitby: 0.4.8 looks good to me.  changes compcache when F10x already had it enabled.  so having it disable on boot would work.
Jun 21 00:52:08 <BeeRad> So does the Pixi (theoretically) have the ability to be better than the Pre? i.e. under the hood with tweaks and optimization? Screen and camera aside...
Jun 21 00:54:44 <Gollyzila> Where can I find more info on the compcache memlimit that's found in Govnah?
Jun 21 00:55:02 <rwhitby> Gollyzila: probably only the source code at the moment.
Jun 21 00:56:05 <Gollyzila> I need an explanation as to what it means. I THINK I know, but I'd like to be sure of it.
Jun 21 00:58:07 <rwhitby> what do you think it means?
Jun 21 00:58:38 <BeeRad> rwhitby: Thoughts on my question above?
Jun 21 00:58:59 <Gollyzila> Lets say it's set to 16mb. Once the device's RAM hits 16, compcache kicks in?
Jun 21 00:59:13 <rwhitby> BeeRad: nope.  "better" is too subjective to have any opinion on it :)
Jun 21 01:00:16 <BeeRad> rwhitby; True, but subjective opinion doesn't cover up objective facts. I'm asking based on the facts presented.
Jun 21 01:00:37 <rwhitby> there is only one fact presented so far.  Linpack runs faster.
Jun 21 01:02:19 <Gollyzila> rwhitby: Was I correct?
Jun 21 01:02:43 <BeeRad> rwhitby: Ok. I would love to see a well presented comparison of a tweaked Pre+ vs. a tweaked Pixi+. Full efforts given to both.
Jun 21 01:03:49 <rwhitby> BeeRad: yep, when can you have it ready? ;)
Jun 21 01:04:34 <BeeRad> As soon as you learn underwater basket weaving. :P
Jun 21 01:05:49 <rwhitby> how do you know I'm not a master of that already?
Jun 21 01:07:00 <Gollyzila> Soooo rwhitby, is my thinking correct or totally wrong?
Jun 21 01:07:21 <BeeRad> rwhitby: How do you know I'm not well versed in the realm of coding?
Jun 21 01:09:35 <rwhitby> BeeRad: I'm assuming you are, and am waiting for your results ;)
Jun 21 01:10:49 <rwhitby> Gollyzila: I think (I'm not 100% sure of what it does either), that the memlimit is the amount of memory that compcache will use for compressed ram pages before dumping them out to the flash area instead.  And it takes that amount of memory away from your programs, making swapping happen earlier than it otherwise would have.
Jun 21 01:12:57 <Gollyzila> rwhitby: thank you for the response. So the higher the memlimit, the less RAM I have for programs?
Jun 21 01:13:32 <rwhitby> no, the less ram you have for fastest access before compcache starts slowing access down by compressing.
Jun 21 01:13:50 <BeeRad> rwhitby: Totally incorrect unfortunately. Totally ignorant. :( Got my firs smartphone in Sept. of 2009 and I know nothing about code. I just wait for updates like the rest of your faithful followers. I just like the title of Alpha Tester. I'm really a fake, a front, and a total nOOb.
Jun 21 01:14:05 <rwhitby> (but on the other hand, the more compressed space you have before compcache has to dump the swap pages out to very slow flash)
Jun 21 01:15:44 <Gollyzila> Wow, I'm on EV data with full signal and I have 36.84% battery drain per hour. Is that normal for a Sprint Pre?
Jun 21 01:16:33 <Tman> nope
Jun 21 01:17:16 <Tman> unless you're downloading something or running something processor-intensive maybe
Jun 21 01:18:19 <Gollyzila> Thanks rwhitby for the info. I'm trying to understand all this but I can't.
Jun 21 01:18:47 <bpadalino> haha, i like that.. "Hrm, can't figure this out .. better /quit"
Jun 21 01:18:55 <rwhitby> TANSTAAFL
Jun 21 01:19:02 <Tman> lol
Jun 21 01:20:35 <Tman> ugh.. TWiki is becoming a pain.. any recommendations for web applications for a private tester-developer collaboration site?
Jun 21 01:20:55 <rwhitby> So many people expect a custom kernel to be able to magically provide performance and battery life in excess of what Palm engineers were able to achieve.  Whilst that might be true for specific usage cases, for the general consumer demographic you have to basically assume that Palm engineers know exactly what they are doing and have got the best out of the hardware that they could.
Jun 21 01:21:37 <Tman> I wanted a wiki and blog.. it gives me that (sort of,) but there's no way to email all the testers.. and the only semi-way is broken -_-
Jun 21 01:21:45 <BeeRad> rwhitby: Well said. I am fully aware that any changes I am making could possibly make my life WORSE, not better.
Jun 21 01:22:23 <rwhitby> Tman: we're looking at redmine at the moment
Jun 21 01:23:04 <Tman> hmm ruby on rails.. wonder if my shared hosting will do that
Jun 21 01:23:29 <Tman> yup
Jun 21 01:32:15 <Tman> sigh.. maybe I should just use twiki and have a separate mailing list
Jun 21 01:34:06 <Tman> rwhitby: out of curiosity did you look at Trac and dotProject?
Jun 21 01:34:25 <rwhitby> Tman: we use Trac now.  Looking at redmine as a possible upgrade on that
Jun 21 01:35:19 <rwhitby> Tman: dotProject looks more like what I'd use as a manager, not a developer.
Jun 21 01:35:47 <Tman> oh gotcha
Jun 21 01:37:19 <BeeRad> rwhitby: Are those Linpack results posted anywhere or just word of mouth?
Jun 21 01:39:02 <rwhitby> BeeRad: jhojho posted them at http://gist.github.com/443429
Jun 21 01:45:09 <BeeRad> 55229Kflops = 5.52Mflops correct assumption?
Jun 21 01:46:02 <rwhitby> dunno whether Mflops are usually Mflops or Miflops (e.g. GB vs GiB)
Jun 21 01:48:18 <BeeRad> Froyo 2.2 - 38.392 Mflops, Eclair 2.1 on EVO - 5.79Mflops, and 2.1 Eclair on Droid - 4.538Mflops so just curious where the Pixi and Pre fell in that.
Jun 21 01:50:33 <uNiXpSyChO> wouldnt that be 55.2Mflops?
Jun 21 01:51:12 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: why I was asking....
Jun 21 01:51:51 <uNiXpSyChO> that's the way i read it.  the only real comparison is the EVO or Nexus 1 which are both 1gig
Jun 21 01:51:55 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: I'm just comparing test results to Linpack running on Android.
Jun 21 01:52:41 <uNiXpSyChO> Froyo will only be faster with apps due to the new JIT
Jun 21 01:53:09 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: The Froyo 2.2 results above were on Nexus.
Jun 21 01:55:26 <Tman> is it possible to put SDK widgets on top of or next to OpenGL in a hybrid app? :/
Jun 21 02:01:21 <bpadalino> hybrid stuff isn't really very well supported just yet .. in the end i think it's the goal to be able to place things on top of each other and layer them .. but that's just conjecture and my own opinion
Jun 21 02:02:26 <Tman> yeah I doubt webkit is suited for that just yet
Jun 21 02:03:00 <Tman> which means I need to create my own widgets
Jun 21 02:19:49 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: Is the 800+Mhz kernel going to be released in the Alpha feed?
Jun 21 02:20:46 <uNiXpSyChO> still deciding if i want a nation of destruction after massive meltdowns
Jun 21 02:21:54 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: How warm is it at idle/running say 3D gaming?
Jun 21 02:25:12 <uNiXpSyChO> mid 30's idle, high 40's during games.  49 was not uncommon.
Jun 21 02:26:07 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: And is there a way to find out exactly how many people actually tap into the Alpha feeds? Isn't that what it's for? People who go for broke and don't care for test purposes?
Jun 21 02:26:41 <BeeRad> My phone sees 40's easy when charging. 44-45* isnt uncommon.
Jun 21 02:27:42 <uNiXpSyChO> those are the people I want to avoid.  then they complain when the wind changes direction around the Pre.
Jun 21 02:29:39 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: Then the Alpha feeds are too accessible. I don't care and go for broke, but I don't complain. I merely report what I see even though there may not be a quick answer or response. People who tap the Alpha feeds and expect miracles are the ones you need to avoid IMO.
Jun 21 02:30:31 <uNiXpSyChO> that's exactly what i mean.  those users that just want to say "me too!".
Jun 21 02:31:50 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: Then who decides who should be Alpha testing?
Jun 21 02:32:10 <uNiXpSyChO> me
Jun 21 02:33:42 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: So what's your answer to the problem?
Jun 21 02:34:22 <uNiXpSyChO> so i'm guess i'm cuaght up in just releasing it with a disclaimer written in blood and expect radioactive fallout or release to a select few.
Jun 21 02:34:36 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: LOL
Jun 21 02:35:23 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: Select few it is. Wouldn't want you sacrificing small children for their ink.
Jun 21 02:37:19 <uNiXpSyChO> i wonder if there is a way to write the package description in bold, red, 60pt font in the feed?
Jun 21 02:39:15 <BeeRad> uNiXpSyChO: Nah, just make the Alpha testing password protected. Password: GoatsBlood.
Jun 21 02:39:30 <Tman> argh!!! I guess I am creating a new debian install in VM, trying to cross-compile packages on my mac is just not working
Jun 21 02:39:48 <bpadalino> Tman: ??
Jun 21 02:40:12 <Tman> I'm trying to cross-compile libraries, like SDL_gfx
Jun 21 02:40:27 <bpadalino> Tman: did you grab the osx pdk from palm ?
Jun 21 02:40:53 <Tman> yes yes, but autoconf is a PITA on this thing
Jun 21 02:41:11 <bpadalino> oh, so you're in autoconf hell ..
Jun 21 02:41:20 <Tman> yes -_-
Jun 21 02:41:24 <rwhitby> uNiXpSyChO: I'd say that building your own kernel should be a prerequisite for 800+ testing.  It's not as if it's hard to do with preware/build.git
Jun 21 02:41:38 <bpadalino> why do you think switching to debian would help out ?
Jun 21 02:41:40 <Tman> I have a libSDL_gfx.a that I compiled awhile back on WIDK (before a HD failure wiped me out) but when I try and use it, all the color mappings are wrong.. I might need to edit by hand
Jun 21 02:42:02 <uNiXpSyChO> rwhitby: its a simple patch actually.  i can whipe up an F105 package quickly.
Jun 21 02:42:03 <Tman> bpadalino: because I can use WIDK and scratchbox2
Jun 21 02:42:12 <bpadalino> ah gotcha
Jun 21 02:42:21 <rwhitby> uNiXpSyChO: put a 105 in nonworking, and we're done I reckon.
Jun 21 02:42:54 <rwhitby> then we can all collaborate on testing it there
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