**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 16 02:59:56 2010 Jul 16 03:00:12 indeed, you might *benefit* by your app having lead time to develop buzz and word of mouth before the contest starts Jul 16 03:00:20 and I spent $100K specifically knowing that and depending on Palm's published start date Jul 16 03:00:33 valid point. Jul 16 03:00:45 don't know if there will be instances of that though. Jul 16 03:00:49 you'd be completely foolish to do that, since you have no control over when Palm approves your app Jul 16 03:01:00 so if I was in the US, I might be likely to sue Palm if they changed the rules at the last minute for no good reason other than to not have complaints from developers who are not globally focused. Jul 16 03:01:55 PDK apps are already approved, we're talking about the contest start date Jul 16 03:02:24 Yes, and you're talking about a hypothetical scenario where a developer timed the release of their app to the beginning of the contest Jul 16 03:02:36 (note that I don't have any such app, or even plans to enter the contest, this is all just hypothetical to show how US-centric everyone is) Jul 16 03:02:54 which is impossible to do since you cannot predict when Palm will approve your app so that it appears in the catalog Jul 16 03:03:29 If the world cup ran for the next five days, and I already had the app approved and in the catalog last week, then I would be affected. Jul 16 03:04:01 (since I was smart enough to submit it early enough) Jul 16 03:04:12 Yes. Jul 16 03:04:16 (and tick all the boxes for every country) Jul 16 03:04:19 Except the world cup is over. Jul 16 03:04:43 s/world cup/other major global event running for the next 5 days/ Jul 16 03:04:48 Such as? Jul 16 03:05:23 of course there is none. this is a hypothetical discussion of principles, right? Jul 16 03:05:34 Not on my part, no. Jul 16 03:06:10 I am putting myself in the position of a Palm executive trying to make a practical choice...not some abstract moral judgement. Jul 16 03:06:18 perhaps it is an app that assists with tax returns in a country where the tax year ends on June 30th Jul 16 03:06:43 but that's not the tax year in the US, so it doesn't matter, right? Jul 16 03:07:19 I just want the 1.4.5 source to be avail... Jul 16 03:07:57 I don't deny that it's *possible* for a global developer to be disadvantaged. I just don't see much practical chance of it happening. Jul 16 03:08:09 oh, I'm happy to accept that Palm executives will need to change the start date for practical reasons to skew the contest advantage to developers that are not globally focused. I'd just like them to admit that's what they are doing :) Jul 16 03:08:20 heh Jul 16 03:09:02 I'd do the same if I was in their shoes :) Jul 16 03:09:23 when did app developers become so entitled? Jul 16 03:09:43 egaudet: when phone sales started depending on apps rather than hardware specs Jul 16 03:09:48 Side note: I cannot seem to log in to any IM accounts...this is even in the process of restoring the palm profile after a doctor Jul 16 03:10:57 I hit the sign in button, the wheel spins for a second then it flashes back to asking me to sign in. Jul 16 03:11:32 This is pretty annoying, since this is the problem I was trying to fix by doctoring in the first place. Jul 16 03:12:30 anyway the contest start date is irrelevant, as long as the duration is sufficient Jul 16 03:13:30 Does the hosts file get rewritten by the doctor? I would assume it does. Jul 16 03:13:31 rwhitby, so the app developers are the sales department Jul 16 03:13:49 idontwan2know, everything in / does Jul 16 03:14:01 that's what I thought. bizarre Jul 16 03:15:41 I would suspect it was a problem on the server side, if it didn't occur with AIM, facebook chat, Gtalk, etc. etc. Jul 16 03:15:42 have you tried backing everything up and doing a full erase Jul 16 03:16:05 guess that's what I'm going to have to do Jul 16 03:16:54 sooo anything new today Jul 16 03:17:54 new versions of Thunderchief and Warthog Jul 16 03:17:55 so palm haven't announced any delay to the PDK contest, so it must have started today already, right? Jul 16 03:19:06 egaudet: bellmo kernel modules have different md5ums from wr kernel modules, but kernel binary is identical Jul 16 03:19:34 C and C++ are NOT the same language and sugardave use the WIDK ;) Jul 16 03:19:37 egaudet: so I'm going to need to change the kernel postinst to use the md5sums on the phone, not the md5sums from the doctor Jul 16 03:20:18 egaudet: have we ever seen any cases where palm has not kept /md5sums updated properly? Jul 16 03:20:26 it's eventually going to morph into... Aupt Jul 16 03:20:34 indeed Jul 16 03:20:36 /md5sums is NOT reliable Jul 16 03:20:46 hmm, ok. Jul 16 03:20:51 either OTA or doctor, one of them is not right Jul 16 03:21:03 I guess that's why I didn't use it before :) Jul 16 03:21:09 (at least in the past that was the case, so I used /usr/ipkg/info/*.md5sums) Jul 16 03:22:06 rwhitby, do all the bellmo modules have different md5sums? Jul 16 03:22:22 egaudet: no, only some Jul 16 03:22:35 less than half Jul 16 03:23:08 installing a recovery kernel first fixes it Jul 16 03:23:52 but it needs to be investigated fully, and is another reason why the 1.4.1 repackaged kernels will not stray from the testing feed Jul 16 03:24:19 "fixes" it? Jul 16 03:25:05 yeah, installs 1.4.1 modules which have the same md5sum as the md5sum file embedded in the 1.4.5 kernels Jul 16 03:25:29 again, "fixes" within the constraints of repackaged 1.4.1 kernels Jul 16 03:26:21 wait so the md5sums are different than what's in the md5sums file? Jul 16 03:26:39 idontwan2know: it would be so easy to take our enjoyable conversation into the thread at http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2557705 and cause all sorts of heated debate :) Jul 16 03:26:42 not the /usr/lib/ipkg/*.md5sums file though right? Jul 16 03:27:02 no all the md5sums on the device match Jul 16 03:27:18 but the incoming kernel has the md5sums from the .eu doctor embedded in the verification part Jul 16 03:27:48 rwhitby: just about as fun as poking a stick into a hornet's nest and stirring things around Jul 16 03:28:11 idontwan2know: indeed. depends on how good your protective clothing is :) Jul 16 03:35:15 I'm going to snap the next time a person posts "the needs to be added to the list" in the fatal-bug aupt thread Jul 16 03:35:50 must… resist…. mentioning…. patch.... Jul 16 03:38:02 oh hey, i have a patch Jul 16 03:39:31 you dont count Jul 16 03:40:19 I hate patches, why do people patch! Jul 16 03:40:59 rwhitby, I think the number 1 goal for aupt-5 is getting rid of remove/replace for update of patches :) Jul 16 03:41:27 geist: which patch? Jul 16 03:44:43 egaudet: how shall we do that? Jul 16 03:46:32 rwhitby, well if aufs passes heavy testing I want to have a /media/internal/org.webosinternals.patches/webos-/ overlay Jul 16 03:47:18 egaudet: /media/internal/.patches/webos-/ ? Jul 16 03:47:27 yea that works Jul 16 03:47:39 don't want media indexing it Jul 16 03:47:41 of course non-ota updates will take extra Jul 16 03:48:15 does aufs compile yet? Jul 16 03:48:24 yeah aufs works Jul 16 03:48:51 I use it on my dev device, rsync my patching files to /var/.testing/usr which is aufs overlayed onto the /usr Jul 16 03:49:04 can anyone help me compile a static openssl? Jul 16 03:49:27 * bhuey has been tring to work around not having a working power button on his pre all day now Jul 16 03:49:34 hardware finally failed on that button Jul 16 03:49:42 I run configure and it looks like it succeeds, but when I try to build an app using the libraries, I get linker errors Jul 16 03:49:46 egaudet: so how do we get into a kernela package? Jul 16 03:49:47 rwhitby, I guess the only way around it would be requiring an "apply-all" maybe even on only a package basis Jul 16 03:49:51 it into Jul 16 03:50:18 patches/aufs Jul 16 03:50:27 is it a kernel module like uinput Jul 16 03:50:38 like compcache (external kernel module) Jul 16 03:50:58 it's in the kernels/patches.git Jul 16 03:51:01 I can pastebin my configure line if it helps Jul 16 03:51:24 egaudet: shall we do a uinput-like package for aufs? Jul 16 03:51:54 it's in nonworking Jul 16 03:52:00 I -think- it builds fine Jul 16 03:52:13 for pre at least Jul 16 03:52:25 I have to add uinput-pixi and aufs-pixi Jul 16 03:53:12 One thing we'll have to thorougly test is the implication of needing to rip the overlay out while files may be in use Jul 16 03:53:50 ok so we wonnt include it in a kernel pkg like compcache then. Jul 16 03:54:06 looking through the aufs dir Jul 16 03:54:17 no patch Jul 16 03:54:18 even compcache I think can be split out into a module like uinput and aufs Jul 16 03:54:26 s/module/module package/ Jul 16 03:54:27 egaudet meant: even compcache I think can be split out into a module package like uinput and aufs Jul 16 03:55:01 geist has the patch from lk -> bootie ;) Jul 16 03:55:07 yeah, let's have all 4 ready and then put them all in testing at the same time Jul 16 03:55:17 uinput/aufs pre/pixi Jul 16 03:55:30 and compcache Jul 16 03:55:31 uinput is in testing (although it's pre only and not suffixed) Jul 16 03:55:43 oh hah, no Jul 16 03:55:44 ? Jul 16 03:55:50 but i am hacking on lk some lately Jul 16 03:56:00 gonna kind of take it in another direction Jul 16 03:56:24 freebsd? Jul 16 03:57:12 opensource webOS bootloader? one can dream Jul 16 03:57:16 well, gonna finish up the avr32 port Jul 16 03:57:28 but yeah, also thinking of making it a better booter for omap Jul 16 03:57:35 omap4 coming out soon Jul 16 03:57:56 qualcomm and android have been using it lately, implements fastboot Jul 16 03:59:45 ooo new futurama Jul 16 04:04:33 jhojho: it's a good one! Jul 16 04:06:02 blargh, still no luck signing into IM accounts even after a secure full erase...I'm out of ideas Jul 16 04:07:30 idontwan2know: did you do a full erase *and* doctor? Jul 16 04:07:44 well, I did the doctor first Jul 16 04:08:09 should I do it again after the erase? Jul 16 04:08:13 ok, should be roughly the same Jul 16 04:08:21 that's what I figured Jul 16 04:08:23 next thing would be to try a new profile Jul 16 04:08:50 and then if you can prove the problem is in your profile, you go to Palm to get it fixed Jul 16 04:10:06 makes sense Jul 16 04:13:41 * bhuey have to take his Pre apart to see if the button can be repaired Jul 16 04:14:51 logic board swap would be nice :) Jul 16 04:15:52 bhuey: http://bit.ly/pre-disassembly/ Jul 16 04:17:30 oops, take the slash off the end Jul 16 04:19:56 bhuey: http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/oWBHEMu4goxHSNOt.medium - power button is extreme right of that picture. Jul 16 04:20:30 (I've taken two of these apart so far) Jul 16 04:25:06 rwhitby: thanks Jul 16 04:25:23 have folks been successful at repairing the power button ? Jul 16 04:26:21 rwhitby: I'm hoping that the button is ok but displaced a bit or something like that Jul 16 04:28:08 I'm pretty sure I've read of people being able to fix/jury-rig power buttons Jul 16 04:28:43 bhuey: yeah, depends whether it's the plastic or the button Jul 16 04:28:59 if it's the button itself, I wouldn't have any hope of repairing it Jul 16 04:29:10 if the plastic, simple Jul 16 04:29:21 right Jul 16 04:29:22 truth Jul 16 04:30:17 rwhitby: depressing the button was getting more and more problematic over time and it finally failed yesterday Jul 16 04:32:04 the bad news is that I don't see how the plastic bit would break Jul 16 04:32:29 well parts of it can bend but I won't know if that's the case until I pull it apart Jul 16 04:32:44 I'm hoping it's simplee like that Jul 16 04:33:11 rwhitby: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/196419-power-button-not-depressing.html Jul 16 04:33:21 from that page, look for a post from Harvest Jul 16 04:34:52 ok, that's possible, but you will have had to really push hard to bend that bit of plastic Jul 16 04:35:33 I'll have to lok at it Jul 16 04:35:57 it's the most pushed button on my pre other than the center button Jul 16 04:36:02 paint has come off of that as well Jul 16 04:36:21 rwhitby: btw the overclock kernels are a winner Jul 16 04:36:24 * rwhitby bbiab Jul 16 04:36:35 my power button is messed up too Jul 16 04:37:23 I had that on my old pre before it totally died and needed replacement Jul 16 04:41:09 Ah hah! Jul 16 04:41:22 It's definitely a problem with my profile. Jul 16 04:41:32 Off to Palm tech support I go. Jul 16 04:53:02 idontwan2know: I'd be interested to know if Palm is able to move purchases from one profile to another if they have to kill your old profile for some reason Jul 16 04:55:34 oh noes. Jul 16 04:56:57 "Albert" appears to be on top of things. Jul 16 04:57:31 accidentally unplugged my pre while in usb mode Jul 16 04:57:43 done that many times Jul 16 04:57:57 me too Jul 16 04:58:01 gotta rescan file system but usually nothing gets corrupted :P Jul 16 04:58:03 usually. Jul 16 04:58:12 for a long time I didn't even realize that wasn't the accepted method Jul 16 04:58:24 me either Jul 16 04:59:58 hmm. now it wont go into usb mode Jul 16 05:00:29 rescan file system? Jul 16 05:00:45 Ugh...should have known..."Albert" can't resolve the issue and has to refer me to a "voice chat specialist" Jul 16 05:02:04 where should i report bugs on new Preware Jul 16 05:02:09 v1.2 Jul 16 05:02:48 rwhitby: ^^ Jul 16 05:03:04 datafirm: http://bit.ly/preware-1x Jul 16 05:03:23 oops datafirm: http://bit.ly/preware-1 Jul 16 05:03:42 damn you read all those? Jul 16 05:03:46 :) Jul 16 05:03:54 gotta be so much noise in the forums Jul 16 05:04:01 :-p Jul 16 05:04:08 meh, I ignore most of it :) Jul 16 05:04:47 the real bugs are in http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/preware/ Jul 16 05:04:57 but we don't allow end-users to write there Jul 16 05:05:08 redmine ftw Jul 16 05:05:12 * halfhalo goes back to hiding Jul 16 05:05:24 halfhalo: agreed Jul 16 05:05:41 you guys ever going to set it up? Jul 16 05:06:11 or there is a free trial for Fogbugz Jul 16 05:06:35 one or two users only.. so if you wanna control posting you probably need a system with user accounts. Jul 16 05:06:39 halfhalo: yep, one of these days Jul 16 05:06:52 okay. rebooting does not seem to fix things Jul 16 05:06:58 datafirm: if it aint open source, we don't use it Jul 16 05:07:19 how is auth going to be handled? ldap or some other way Jul 16 05:08:11 halfhalo: dunno yet. I personally prefer x509 client certs Jul 16 05:09:51 rwhitby: here is the bug, so you dont missit Jul 16 05:09:52 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2557892 Jul 16 05:10:09 is there a way to change your profile without doctoring? Jul 16 05:10:21 ie., log out of one and into another Jul 16 05:10:37 datafirm: Update All skips app catalog packages Jul 16 05:10:55 rwhitby: why is it stating a newer version? Jul 16 05:11:03 and Im not able to update in the App Catlogue Jul 16 05:11:03 have you updated feeds lately? Jul 16 05:11:08 yes before this. Jul 16 05:11:38 that means that Palm's XML feeds have updated versions, but the app catalog client is not showing them to you Jul 16 05:11:39 one problem there with certs…. redmine dont support them and git integration wont like it if you made em work Jul 16 05:12:15 so the beta and regular feeds are not messed up? Jul 16 05:12:20 halfhalo: how come? It just sets REMOTE_USER from SSL_* on https Jul 16 05:12:24 so its an issue on palm deployment Jul 16 05:12:30 datafirm: looks like it Jul 16 05:12:46 i can delete that post then Jul 16 05:14:09 its rails. rails is weird like that. Jul 16 05:14:27 the new thunderchief is very stable! good work. Jul 16 05:14:43 rails makes it easy to do things the rails way. like, stupidly easy. Jul 16 05:14:56 but if you want to do it another way its a major pain in the rear Jul 16 05:15:01 heh Jul 16 05:15:12 its mah dayish job Jul 16 05:15:18 im doing some rails right now.. wishing it were sinatra Jul 16 05:30:53 idontwan2know: "PDK Hot Apps Promotion Has Started!" http://palmhotapps.com/ Jul 16 05:31:13 I guess the Palm execs made the morally correct decision :) Jul 16 05:31:58 asking devs to submit a fix sounds like the easier way Jul 16 05:32:07 then dealing with the carriers Jul 16 05:36:51 rwhitby: c'est la vie. I had no dog in that hunt either way Jul 16 05:37:06 idontwan2know: neither did I :) Jul 16 05:38:12 I am pleasantly surprised, actually Jul 16 05:42:52 how to get immediate file delete under macos when deleting files from the pre/pixi http://www.macgeekery.com/gspot/2007-03/getting_immediate_delete_functionality Jul 16 05:44:22 just ran disk defragmenter analyze on the pre drive. =) Jul 16 05:45:26 oh boy file fragmentation 40% total frag 21% =) Jul 16 05:46:07 moin Jul 16 05:47:53 btw did anyone figure out how to hide the media option that pops up when you plug the pre into usb? Jul 16 05:48:08 for some reason, I'm still getting it as an option on the sprint pre Jul 16 06:00:50 jhoweb: there's a preference option for it Jul 16 06:11:10 rwhitby: do you know where off the top of your head? I cant seem to find it Jul 16 06:16:29 hmm. i see mention that media sync can be turned off via device info Jul 16 06:16:33 but i dont see the option Jul 16 14:18:05 was webos 1.1.0 able to play mp3s? I only seem to be able to get it to play wavs Jul 16 14:18:14 * sbromwich is living in the forgotten country. Jul 16 14:20:54 wav's you gotta be kidding me Jul 16 14:21:00 nup Jul 16 14:21:13 I keep missing calls because my pre can't play the pre ringtone. Jul 16 14:21:28 seriously ? Jul 16 14:21:32 seriously Jul 16 14:21:43 can you her it when you set it up ? Jul 16 14:21:43 I just did a test, it'll play wav but blanks on mp3 Jul 16 14:21:53 my mp3 play fine Jul 16 14:21:53 when it boots? Jul 16 14:22:04 no when you chose that ringtone Jul 16 14:22:12 are the mp3 are copy right protected? Jul 16 14:22:16 test it, play it/preview it Jul 16 14:22:31 en0x: not unless sox is playing silly buggers Jul 16 14:22:38 could be in some insane mp3 fromat or have drm Jul 16 14:22:43 test files at http://www.fop.ns.ca/ringtone/ Jul 16 14:23:01 they're all ringtones I used on 1.4.1 Jul 16 14:23:09 (in mp3 format) Jul 16 14:23:39 where u got 1.1.0 version of webos? :> Jul 16 14:23:45 loaner phone Jul 16 14:24:05 mine died a death, got this as a loaner till mine is repaired Jul 16 14:24:22 where the hell is 1.4.5.x Jul 16 14:24:28 update! sbromwich Jul 16 14:24:36 PuffTheMagic: call sprint/verizon/att and ask them Jul 16 14:24:58 en0x: I can't be arsed, it won't update directly to 1.4.5, I don't want to step by step it up, and it's going back soon anyway Jul 16 14:25:14 i c Jul 16 14:25:22 however... I have it booting kernels from a novacom boot mem quite happily Jul 16 14:27:18 shame that novacomd doesn't work on the device then and I can't novaterm in but we can't have everything Jul 16 14:36:25 anyone interested in adding some localized strings for wirc? Jul 16 14:39:06 i want webos in polish Jul 16 14:39:21 i wonder how hard would it be to localize it to polish language Jul 16 14:48:40 change all the strings to "nie rozumiem" and you're sorted Jul 16 14:49:18 ;] Jul 16 15:59:32 ahhh, rebooting got it to make noise again Jul 16 18:03:41 "I can't get my Bold to drop right now, maybe you can show me how to do it." Jul 16 18:03:53 I want to hug that person. Jul 16 18:05:40 git people...when I want to ./configure, what is the magic flag for specifying my own bin directory? Jul 16 18:05:56 for node? Jul 16 18:06:02 just for git Jul 16 18:06:18 no idea... Jul 16 18:06:38 make install wants to put everything in /usr/local Jul 16 18:06:42 but of course I can't write there Jul 16 18:08:15 --prefix Jul 16 18:08:17 that's the ticket Jul 16 18:15:27 if I you are running warthog with compache enabled, I was under the understanding that i should not see the TMC error? is this true? Jul 16 18:17:36 bah, my compiled git can't open sockets, I guess Jul 16 18:18:24 mikepre: u will see it but not so often Jul 16 18:19:41 s/compache/compcache/ Jul 16 18:20:16 * oilsworkn made that same problem all throughout govnah, but rwhitby fixed them in the latest release Jul 16 18:20:45 ok, cause I was running F105 for a few weeks and never saw it once, put warthog on last night and saw TMC error twice today, thanks for input, Jul 16 18:21:09 i mean, you only have so much memory Jul 16 18:21:14 so you're eventually going to fill it Jul 16 18:21:22 take all the memory out Jul 16 18:21:24 how many cards are you leaving open? Jul 16 18:21:24 and then you're going to see a warning Jul 16 18:21:25 and turn of ur phone Jul 16 18:21:30 u wont see tmc anymore :D Jul 16 18:21:36 jhojho: suggests frequent reboots Jul 16 18:21:42 lol Jul 16 18:21:45 you are evil Jul 16 18:21:45 haha Jul 16 18:21:55 what is this, windows? Jul 16 18:22:04 i'm having a bad enuff day with a dead router Jul 16 18:22:12 jhojho goes crazy when he sees people talk about rebooting their phones Jul 16 18:22:19 watch him cringe: Jul 16 18:22:23 * halfhalo_class taps reboot Jul 16 18:22:23 thanks Jul 16 18:22:25 * oilsworkn does a battery pull because preware isn't working Jul 16 18:22:31 oh god Jul 16 18:22:33 haha Jul 16 18:22:47 * halfhalo_class reboots dev pre's for kicks Jul 16 18:22:47 i did have to do my first battery pull the other day. Jul 16 18:22:50 EVER Jul 16 18:23:07 warthog -73 + govnah locked the phone tight Jul 16 18:23:15 the only time ive restarted my pre in the last few months is when wirc service gets stuck connected Jul 16 18:23:17 and i reboot to kill it Jul 16 18:23:25 not even the power wiggle would respond Jul 16 18:23:36 i blame wirc for all my phones problems Jul 16 18:23:44 although I've been rebooting fairly frequently recently Jul 16 18:24:04 halfhalo_class: correction: wircd Jul 16 18:24:04 but that's because i'm building new kernels Jul 16 18:24:06 xD Jul 16 18:24:16 lol Jul 16 18:24:22 god, stupid dns servers Jul 16 18:24:39 BTW I'm now online via a pixi + bip Jul 16 18:24:47 PALM FTW Jul 16 18:24:58 jhojho: you should call your next kernel "halfhalo" Jul 16 18:25:10 oh, make it brick phones! Jul 16 18:25:10 call it quarterhalo Jul 16 18:25:12 so when we talk smack about it its twice as good Jul 16 18:25:35 "halfhalo bricked my pre" DAMN RIGHT I DID! Jul 16 18:25:45 no halo tribute kernels coz i gotz no onlive =D Jul 16 18:26:04 hey, if I didn't have fancy shmancy acc I would have Jul 16 18:26:18 easy then. Jul 16 18:26:28 get me fancy shmancy acct too Jul 16 18:26:30 lol Jul 16 18:26:39 cant Jul 16 18:26:45 :p Jul 16 18:26:47 why would you want onlive when you can get steel battalion off ebay! Jul 16 18:26:54 because its free for me Jul 16 18:26:57 its crazy fun Jul 16 18:27:01 i shouldnt have drunk beers on my lunch Jul 16 18:27:11 now i have to go to bathroom every 30min Jul 16 18:27:11 :S Jul 16 18:27:26 what, to take more swigs from your flask? Jul 16 18:28:04 * oilsworkn has been thinking about adding another wIRC random tagline Jul 16 18:28:11 anyways. i'm off to tacos to console myself about the router. then to investigate if it's worth upgrading from dd-wrt v23 to v24 Jul 16 18:28:19 do eeet Jul 16 18:28:20 we already got "Now you can IRC from the crapper" Jul 16 18:28:26 im thinking something like Jul 16 18:28:27 " Jul 16 18:28:27 all mine are running the latest ddwrt Jul 16 18:28:57 "Now you can IRC while you're drivin-OH SHIT IT'S A TRUCK" Jul 16 18:29:05 i would Jul 16 18:29:09 lol Jul 16 18:29:30 or "dont slap people with trouts while driving" Jul 16 18:30:24 ok, can someone tell me if http://notebook-cooling.com/ is up... Jul 16 18:30:24 maybe you need wirc on a HUD in the car Jul 16 18:30:28 something about driving while in the car Jul 16 18:30:37 er, ircing while driving* Jul 16 18:30:39 Error establishing a database connection Jul 16 18:30:44 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Jul 16 18:30:50 so yes, its up Jul 16 18:30:52 oh, well fuck that db Jul 16 18:30:52 but its not working Jul 16 18:30:59 thats the db? Jul 16 18:31:05 * oilsworkn thought it was the ftp server causing you problems Jul 16 18:31:11 dns is Jul 16 18:31:35 now try Jul 16 18:32:11 * oilsworkn sees Jul 16 18:32:15 cool Jul 16 18:32:19 why dont you have a site about overclocking my macbook Jul 16 18:32:36 ummm.... I do. its called the forums at notebookreview.com Jul 16 18:32:39 seems like a pretty niche site Jul 16 18:32:49 i just host it, don't run it Jul 16 18:32:53 and it sorta is Jul 16 18:35:06 http://notebook-cooling.com/about/ $)$ Jul 16 18:35:07 404 Jul 16 18:38:04 grrrrr Jul 16 18:38:07 i blame nginx Jul 16 18:39:41 oh its the stupid url rerwiter Jul 16 18:39:56 dude, server_tokens off; Jul 16 18:39:56 mod_rewrite is anything but stupid Jul 16 18:40:33 not using apache for mod_rewrite simplicity Jul 16 18:43:09 and once again, the god damn dns servers are in my way Jul 16 18:43:43 lol Jul 16 18:44:04 thats why i try to stay away from server management Jul 16 18:44:29 well, its not so much the server as my campus's dns servers not being up to date Jul 16 18:44:44 but an entry for the server in your hosts Jul 16 18:45:19 but? Jul 16 18:45:20 put* Jul 16 18:46:48 cherokee server roox Jul 16 18:49:29 die apache die Jul 16 18:50:23 lunchtime, yaya Jul 16 19:15:55 warthog-77 pushed to autobuilder Jul 16 19:20:10 your an autobuilder Jul 16 19:26:16 come on sprint, drop 145 already Jul 16 19:32:31 they wont just because of you Jul 16 19:35:08 ;( Jul 16 19:36:14 lol. thanks oil Jul 16 19:36:26 for? Jul 16 19:36:31 just generally being awesome? Jul 16 19:36:33 that requires no thanks Jul 16 19:36:38 now go finish up govnah and maybe 145 will drop Jul 16 19:36:38 xD Jul 16 19:36:49 hey, rwhitby added that extra junk you asked for Jul 16 19:37:02 em? Jul 16 19:37:05 last night Jul 16 19:37:07 ? Jul 16 19:37:16 this morning by my timezone Jul 16 19:37:25 057 Jul 16 19:37:25 man this sprint pre is creaky Jul 16 19:37:31 i think he put it in the testing feed Jul 16 19:38:00 k. i'l check it out Jul 16 19:38:48 I think it's a shame that webos-internals sites do not have mobile interfaces :) Jul 16 19:40:06 i no rite? Jul 16 19:40:45 so do it Jul 16 19:46:50 does anyone have a clue how darronb configured qt to compile it for the palm? Jul 16 19:46:54 is it using x.org stuff? Jul 16 19:48:05 git.webos-internals.org/?p=qt/qt.git;a=summary Jul 16 19:48:11 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=qt/qt.git;a=summary Jul 16 19:48:49 ok so the io support is there but looks like no profile save yet Jul 16 19:49:59 kinda interesting to see just how much power draw there is for wirc over evdo... Jul 16 19:51:03 jhojho: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/244701-govnah-30.html#post2558498 Jul 16 19:52:24 egaudet: thanks. doesn't really reveal the configure string, but i've now stumbled over the gfxdrivers sdl plugin for the palm Jul 16 19:52:45 oil. k Jul 16 19:52:57 btw I recommend anticipatory as the io sched... Jul 16 19:53:25 smooth(er) scrolling Jul 16 19:59:53 hey Jul 16 20:23:56 muesli, I haven't looked at any of the qt stuff. Didn't know if what he put into git would help you at all Jul 16 21:14:45 hey guys, quick question... Jul 16 21:15:17 is preware (re)launch-able with an appid or some other parameter to go to a homebrew app details page Jul 16 21:15:49 with the ipk url from the preware feed, maybe? Jul 16 21:16:36 *precentral feed, i meant Jul 16 21:18:06 there's a precentral feed in preware, why not just use that? Jul 16 21:18:28 i want to launch preware to a specific app from my app Jul 16 21:19:06 yeah that's in the roadmap but not implemented yet Jul 16 21:19:10 ok Jul 16 21:19:27 AFAIK, oil and/or rwhitby would be able to confirm Jul 16 21:19:33 i'm working on the precentral (unofficial) app and want to show the homebrew catalog and have it launch preware on a button tap Jul 16 21:20:13 sounds cool, pester oil to implement it ;) Jul 16 21:20:17 lol ok Jul 16 21:22:34 run its zsoc! Jul 16 21:23:50 ? Jul 16 21:29:04 you heard me Jul 16 21:29:10 its got a launchparam for path to go to the install scene Jul 16 21:29:18 no launch param for packageid to go to package view scene Jul 16 21:29:21 well, yet Jul 16 21:29:24 its on the todo Jul 16 21:38:52 i think it would be cool to maybe handle an ipk url as a param, so apps can take advantage of the new manual ipk install] Jul 16 21:39:15 ..... Jul 16 21:39:20 [14:29] <+oilsworkn> its got a launchparam for path to go to the install scene Jul 16 21:39:28 path, url, same difference Jul 16 21:39:33 ohok i see Jul 16 21:39:35 yeah, but no one listens to you oil Jul 16 21:39:37 was thinking something else Jul 16 21:39:39 i know ;( Jul 16 21:40:25 well that will work then. i'll just get the ipk url from the feed and launch it. thanks :) Jul 16 21:40:32 what's the param name? Jul 16 21:40:54 "path"? Jul 16 21:41:04 param: {type: 'install', file: 'http://foo.org/bar.ipk'} Jul 16 21:41:14 awesome! thank you sir! Jul 16 21:41:21 only in 120 Jul 16 21:41:36 it will probably screw up if you call it pre 120 Jul 16 21:41:42 and only get the flashing card Jul 16 21:42:18 i guess it's bad to assume that even preware users would keep their apps up to date Jul 16 21:43:37 yeah, they dont Jul 16 21:55:11 oilsworkn, go implement the package id launchparam! immediately if not sooner Jul 16 21:55:28 * oilsworkn no program webos at work Jul 16 21:56:05 lies Jul 16 22:03:59 no lies Jul 16 22:45:13 hey everybody! Jul 16 22:45:32 hey Jul 16 22:45:33 oh Jul 16 23:51:28 As based in this sensor, an specialty case' cogs any building for the brand or rental of cost whereby a drug includes a athletic layout for the email to reduce prototyper for cloning one or more similar positions into interest in the region or for the drug to create part when a response developed by the communication includes a many killing Jul 16 23:51:49 ... Jul 17 00:00:23 I'm still dumbfounded that people aren't picking up on Apple's admission that the iPhone4 drops MORE calls than the 3GS, which is already known as far and wide as having a horrible problem with dropping calls. Jul 17 00:00:41 But really folks, there's no problem here...it's all been overblown. Jul 17 00:01:01 shhhhh Jul 17 00:01:01 there's a fun interview with the Woz about that Jul 17 00:01:17 if you talk about about the iphone, apple censors you Jul 17 00:01:45 what i find funny is their 1984 ad, and now they're just like that Jul 17 00:01:48 it's wild that two apple folks would compliment Palm in the same day Jul 17 00:02:15 he said to fix the situation, get a Pre plus from Verizon, and use the mifi when att/iphone fails Jul 17 00:02:24 Woz is funny. Jul 17 00:02:48 yea, jobs is an asshole Jul 17 00:02:58 jobs refused to write a chapter for woz's memiors Jul 17 00:03:56 Plenty of people can't afford *one* smartphone data plan. nobody is going to pay for a second just to keep their iPhone. Jul 17 00:04:06 "no, i'm too busy to write a small chapter of a book for a guy who is completely responsible for all my early success Jul 17 00:04:10 well, nobody who isn't a billionaire Apple cofounder Jul 17 00:05:08 apple has found a great niche Jul 17 00:05:15 liberating people from the tyranny of choice Jul 17 00:07:45 oil: around? wirc dark theme uses black on grey text for stuff you enter, hard to see ;[ Jul 17 00:09:56 hm Jul 17 00:10:01 pffft Jul 17 00:10:05 in which scene? Jul 17 00:11:14 (its not hapening to me) Jul 17 00:13:14 0.2.4? Jul 17 00:13:31 well if thats the case Jul 17 00:13:37 wait for update :) Jul 17 00:14:56 I can't believe I've been running my HDD at 1.5GB/s for years Jul 17 00:14:58 palm-dark is much better in 030 Jul 17 00:17:13 Not a complaint, just curious...why does the latest virtual keyboard with all the extras installed autocorrect spelling, but not punctuation? Jul 17 00:17:44 err...capitalization, not punctuation Jul 17 00:17:49 idontwan2know, because the developer is an idiot Jul 17 00:17:49 heh Jul 17 00:18:02 gotcha Jul 17 00:18:47 although your misspeak has uncovered an autocorrect bug now. I suppose the punctuation delimiters do not cause autocorrect in the VKB like they do with hard keyboard Jul 17 00:19:09 well not an autocorrect bug but yeah Jul 17 00:19:40 http://pleatedjeans.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/anti-atheist-christian.jpg?w=430&h=602 Jul 17 00:20:11 oops Jul 17 00:20:14 wrong room Jul 17 00:20:35 i like how he's a goat Jul 17 00:20:41 lol Jul 17 00:20:44 I assume the issue with the VKB reappearing after you change landscapes is known? Jul 17 00:21:03 err...change orientation* Jul 17 00:21:06 http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/virtual-keyboard/report/1 Jul 17 00:21:36 neat...I will look there rather than asking in the future Jul 17 00:22:59 (the enter-repeat bug that was visible in the app catalog search for instance has been fixed locally) Jul 17 00:24:25 cool Jul 17 00:25:24 egaudet: do you use vkb a lot? when you're not working on it? Jul 17 00:26:32 oil not as much as I think I should lol Jul 17 00:26:58 I went a while not even touching it, until the recent changes Jul 17 00:27:15 I have found it a lot more useful lately. Not sure if the software itself is better, or if OCing has helped, but it seems much more accurate and less laggy than in the past Jul 17 00:27:27 idontwan2know, I fixed it a lot Jul 17 00:28:19 Awesome. I went a long time without using it much, but have gone back to it with some of the improvements. Jul 17 00:28:20 I added some "semi-hackish-multi-touch-sorta-kinda-not-really-but-close-enough" logic to the mouse events that are captured, and stopped using the target object as the hit detector which throws it off when the object enlarges for preview Jul 17 00:29:08 The changes also allow holding shift/function and then tapping a number (well they will when I take the repeat away from the hold on those keys) Jul 17 00:29:16 does it come up faster? Jul 17 00:30:02 no, but it renders once per stage Jul 17 00:30:15 instead of rendering, closing, rendering etc... Jul 17 00:30:44 yeah so its in the framework, basically attached to every app Jul 17 00:30:50 I want to get this version of the VKB stable and bug-free so that I can eventually move to implementing a PDK learning keyboard Jul 17 00:31:08 oil yeah it's a widget, so it just loads and attaches itself Jul 17 00:31:59 only if we could put it into lunasysmgr xD Jul 17 00:32:56 hey maybe I'll just steal the framebuffer from luna and do what I want! lol Jul 17 00:35:15 of course as a PDK app using keyboss key emulation, it would be pretty awesome. Jul 17 00:35:23 I think the Pre's screen size puts an ultimate cap on the usability of it. But presumably the next gen of hardware will have at *least* a 3.5-3.7in screen. Jul 17 00:35:50 which would be plenty, especially in landscape Jul 17 00:37:31 egaudet: i wish it could go in a popup Jul 17 00:37:41 so the card would scale to the height of whats left Jul 17 00:37:44 instead of floating over it Jul 17 00:38:25 have you thought about attaching it to the textbox code instead of the symblock? Jul 17 00:38:37 oil it can and will Jul 17 00:38:41 and have taping on the textbox spawn a popup with the keyboard on it? Jul 17 00:38:50 can and will go in a popup Jul 17 00:38:58 oh, but do popups show in landscape? Jul 17 00:39:07 yep Jul 17 00:39:12 thats nice Jul 17 00:39:25 yeah, way back when I first started I began it as a popup app Jul 17 00:39:35 then realized I couldn't do what I wanted and landscape was impossible Jul 17 00:39:46 then I think in 1.3.5 or 1.4.0 they added popup landscape Jul 17 00:39:51 ah Jul 17 00:40:16 and I believe there is a paid app keyboard in the app cat that does it in popup Jul 17 00:40:26 no patch? Jul 17 00:40:44 no patch but it's not fully integrated all it can do is "paste" Jul 17 00:40:58 oh, that sucks Jul 17 00:40:59 yeah, it's not particularly useful Jul 17 00:41:14 I've been thinking about making it like that for the app cat but also having homebrew add-on capabilities to fully integrate it Jul 17 00:44:08 hmm...there's actually two of those apps in the catalog Jul 17 00:44:16 one is $5. lol Jul 17 00:45:25 lol Jul 17 00:45:33 http://img340.imageshack.us/i/vkb.png/ Jul 17 00:46:11 Both of them have pretty horrific reviews. Jul 17 00:47:02 if I were Palm I'd put keyboard emulation service in Luna and have it be like the GPS, allow user to enable/disable and popup on install an app that uses it Jul 17 00:47:44 that keyboard is a little ugly Jul 17 00:48:01 a little? Jul 17 00:48:10 * oil is being polite? Jul 17 00:48:13 damn thing is horrendous Jul 17 00:48:43 and getting letters to fit nicely inside a boarder radius that screws up the 32px div in portrait sucks Jul 17 00:48:47 but that was more POC Jul 17 00:49:44 now of course oil can always design a nice JS layout and images for a VKB for me ;-) Jul 17 00:51:40 * idontwan2know listens to the crickets Jul 17 00:51:46 lol Jul 17 00:51:51 * egaudet steps on one Jul 17 00:51:56 * oil could Jul 17 00:53:07 ~crickets Jul 17 00:53:08 * infobot chirps uninterestedly Jul 17 00:53:11 but… he wont Jul 17 00:53:21 depends if i have time Jul 17 00:53:26 * oil codes on a lot of projects Jul 17 00:53:55 lies Jul 17 00:54:11 Interesting...VKB does autocorrect i to I. Jul 17 00:54:38 but not i'm to I'm Jul 17 00:55:28 idontwan2know, the VKB doesn't have any autocorrect code in it Jul 17 00:55:34 right Jul 17 00:55:48 I can't seem to say what I mean tonight. Jul 17 00:55:55 so if hardware space doesn't correct i'm Jul 17 00:56:34 yeah, it doesn't Jul 17 01:04:59 ka6sox: did you ever non root wargames? Jul 17 01:32:45 does anyone know if there is an optware package (either via preware or using ipkg-opt) that has an ssh client without activating an ssh server as well? Jul 17 01:33:07 I tried the preware openssh package but it configured and launched the ssh server as well, which I would like to not do Jul 17 01:33:24 I have admittedly not yet tried preware's dropbear package Jul 17 01:46:51 halfhalo, nope, not yet...waiting for you to show me how to do it :D Jul 17 01:47:57 ugggg Jul 17 01:48:04 its like two lines Jul 17 01:48:29 halfhalo, send me the 2 lines and I'll get it done :P Jul 17 01:48:44 its like....106deg here :P Jul 17 01:48:50 heh Jul 17 01:48:58 well, actually, it more like two words Jul 17 01:49:54 okay then either paste it here or in a pastebin. Jul 17 01:50:44 server side: open app.js and change port. client side: open jquery.wargames.js and change the port Jul 17 01:50:48 done Jul 17 01:52:51 okay what port? Jul 17 01:53:19 i choose you port 8121 Jul 17 01:53:39 wfm Jul 17 01:55:07 ? Jul 17 01:55:55 Works For Me. Jul 17 01:56:25 lies Jul 17 02:03:54 can anyone in here help me with cross-compiling? zlib's configure script runs just fine, and make runs just fine, but when I try to compile an example app, I get linker errors Jul 17 02:04:30 hborders, you staged it into the right directory? Jul 17 02:04:55 ka6sox: I'm a noob. i don't know what you mean Jul 17 02:05:17 ka6sox: if there is something I can read about cross-compiling in general, I'd love to educate myself Jul 17 02:06:45 I only know what I've heard and witnessed in 6yrs of hanging around...I know that libs like zlib when they are dependencies need to be "staged" in a certain directory so that they are available when the linker does its thing. Jul 17 02:07:21 see if there is a make stage target for zlib Jul 17 02:07:43 ok Jul 17 02:09:22 nope, not there Jul 17 02:09:36 yeah, I think i have my libs in the right place. I don't get errors about missing libs Jul 17 02:09:43 I just get a bunch of undefined function references Jul 17 02:14:02 now you have exhausted my knowledge. Jul 17 02:14:40 well, thanks for trying Jul 17 02:14:42 anyone else? Jul 17 02:14:44 kernels are sooo much simpler than this application stuff. Jul 17 02:14:50 :) Jul 17 02:15:19 okay back to seeing if I can oops this new module I'm playing with. Jul 17 02:31:10 ok, I got my zlib example working. I think I linked zlib properly. The question now is this: why did this work: Jul 17 02:31:23 PATH=/opt/PalmPDK/arm-gcc/bin/:$PATH /opt/PalmPDK/arm-gcc/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc fitblk.c -L/Users/hborders/xcode-workspaces/personal/pdk-samples/simple/mac/palm-arm/lib -lz -I/Users/hborders/xcode-workspaces/personal/pdk-samples/simple/mac/palm-arm/include/ --sysroot=/opt/PalmPDK/arm-gcc/sysroot/ -o fitblk Jul 17 02:31:35 and this not: Jul 17 02:31:35 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc -mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -I/opt/PalmPDK/include -I/opt/PalmPDK/include/SDL -I/Users/hborders/xcode-workspaces/personal/pdk-samples/simple/mac/palm-arm/include --sysroot=/opt/PalmPDK/arm-gcc/sysroot -static -L/opt/PalmPDK/device/lib -L/Users/hborders/xcode-workspaces/personal/pdk-samples/simple/mac/palm-arm/lib Jul 17 02:31:35 -Wl,--allow-shlib-undefined,-rpath-link,/Users/hborders/xcode-workspaces/personal/pdk-samples/simple/mac/palm-arm/lib -lz -o Build_Device/hello fitblk.c Jul 17 02:34:33 damn dude Jul 17 02:34:36 use pastebin Jul 17 02:39:05 sorry Jul 17 02:39:25 only 2 lines. :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 17 02:59:56 2010