**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 24 10:52:15 2010 Sep 24 12:27:44 rehi Sep 24 12:58:51 my palm pre has issues with messenger. I will switch over to the messenger and it will just say "logging in" and will stay that way until I reboot. Once I reboot, the messenger will login fine, but after a day or so I'll need to reboot again Sep 24 14:03:23 I ran the emergency patch recovery, it's been going for over half an hour now Sep 24 16:15:43 10bin=2 Sep 24 16:16:16 16hex=10 Sep 24 16:16:39 10hex=16 Sep 24 17:48:05 how do you direct a message to a certain person in the chat?? Sep 24 17:52:23 /msg Sep 24 17:53:38 without openin a private chat Sep 24 17:56:33 indeed /msg NAME MESSAGE Sep 24 18:04:00 wakawakawaka Sep 24 18:19:29 and that will put the highlight on the words? Sep 24 18:30:41 Do the Linux SDK palm-package and palm-install tools work to package PDK apps? Sep 24 18:30:46 Or do you guys use something different Sep 24 18:31:50 Amaranth: I think I used the SDK palm-package in all my apps, and so far so good. Sep 24 18:32:09 phew, that makes things easier Sep 24 18:32:59 WIDK make stage is failing for me and since all I want to do is make actual PDK apps I'm just taking the toolchain, adding in the PDK device libs from the OS X download, and making myself a PDK Sep 24 18:33:07 I use the SDK palm-package and a palm-game-fix script Sep 24 18:33:15 bbiaf Sep 24 18:33:19 palm-game-fix? Sep 24 18:33:50 Amaranth: sounds good. the rootfs in WIDK works too for linking just fine. Sep 24 18:34:21 Ah, I see, hopefully the 1.4.5 versions don't have that problem Sep 24 18:34:42 dtzWill: Yeah but I also want to get a path similar to the OS X one so I'm just moving things around Sep 24 18:35:28 Hopefully I don't have to screw with the linking Sep 24 18:56:03 well, that seems to have compiled anyway Sep 24 18:59:16 Yay, it compiled, linked, packaged, and installed to the device and the app actually seems to work Sep 24 18:59:18 hurr Sep 24 18:59:30 All I'm missing is the host libs and I'd have a full PDK :) Sep 24 18:59:54 Amaranth, make stage fails for me too but it gets far enough for me to do SDL apps and such Sep 24 19:00:03 since at least the toolchain works Sep 24 19:00:23 Amaranth, do you get libtool configuration errors? Sep 24 19:00:28 Yeah, that's why I pulled the toolchain and OS X PDK together to make a linux PDK with the same directory structure Sep 24 19:00:32 er not config version conflicts Sep 24 19:00:34 ryan[WIN]: yep, LT_INIT Sep 24 19:01:05 Amaranth, yeah those are legitimate issues with the build right now Sep 24 19:01:53 i tried building the widk with a freshly installed os and have like 45k lines of saved buffer from the failed build process so i'm sure it'llget worked out eventually or i'll put some effort into remaking the build Sep 24 19:02:38 Eh, I don't need the extra WIDK stuff, really Sep 24 19:02:53 I have enough to build my PDK app, install it to my device, and have it actually run Sep 24 19:03:31 If I get bored I may look in to building the host folder too so I can do off-device testing Sep 24 19:07:05 amaranth: what app are you buildin? Sep 24 19:07:31 thegozt: a game I'm working on Sep 24 19:07:46 Although I spend most of my time playing with new techniques for making a game instead of actually making a game Sep 24 19:08:08 The only difference between me and 3D Realms is I don't have millions of dollars to do it for 12 years :) Sep 24 19:10:24 I hear ya! Sep 24 20:39:29 why is it that when i look in the app catalog sorted by date, under "today" there are apps that i have the latest version of already Sep 24 20:40:14 perhaps these were in beta feed for eternity? Sep 24 21:26:52 hello, is there any other web browser that the Pre+ can use? via install, stand alone or from the usual precentral, et al. thanks. Sep 24 21:27:11 prefox Sep 24 21:27:29 I've heard of that, but can't find it. Sep 24 21:27:44 but its early, crashy, slow, beta software Sep 24 21:27:55 its not on any feeds afaik Sep 24 21:28:12 make your own feed and be happy Sep 24 21:28:25 oh, yeah.. ok. will still hold on then.. thanks oils. Sep 24 21:28:40 be happy. dooont worry. ;) Sep 24 21:29:27 would loove to see chrome on the pre.. :) Sep 24 21:30:12 nothin really wrong with this one, but always nice to have options.. Sep 24 21:30:43 re halfhalo. Sep 24 21:35:13 jesus mchrist in a handbasket Sep 24 21:36:29 lol Sep 24 21:36:43 with fries even! Sep 24 21:36:49 ka6sox: ka6sox-away Hello. Are you around? I have question for you. Sep 24 21:37:02 AND ITS STILL BLOODY GOING! Sep 24 21:37:12 haha Sep 24 21:37:13 WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO KILL THIS THING?!?!?! Sep 24 21:37:27 nukes Sep 24 21:38:06 the stupid bot keeps getting messages saying someone has authenticated as it.... Sep 24 21:38:23 ouch Sep 24 21:38:47 it's oils fault. Sep 24 21:40:02 :/ Sep 24 21:40:17 iz just kidding :) Sep 24 21:43:44 * halfhalo snapped and is going to kill the bot with fire Sep 24 21:48:24 OH MY GOD ITS NOT DEAD Sep 24 21:49:53 the damn rbot I was playing with a few days ago has been continually connecting, trying to parse a message, and disconnecting automatically... Sep 24 21:50:00 i <3 rbit Sep 24 21:50:03 rbot, even Sep 24 21:50:06 especially the uno module Sep 24 21:50:08 <3 Sep 24 21:50:52 yeah.. but I can't kill it.... Sep 24 21:51:01 oh Sep 24 21:51:05 =( Sep 24 21:51:33 !quit Sep 24 21:51:54 doesn't work since it can't actually connect Sep 24 21:52:29 I told it to run through znc and it crashed whenever *status or *** sent it a message Sep 24 21:52:55 Wait.... I think i killed it..... Sep 24 21:53:18 * halfhalo goes to erase the file while its down Sep 24 21:55:04 more importantly, my node bot is working... Sep 24 22:33:06 I was just letting someone in #ubuntu-offtopic know how awesome Preware is and the homebrew community. Sep 24 22:55:31 hy Sep 24 22:58:15 yo Sep 25 00:31:06 [2010-09-25 00:04:20] (wIRC) Uncaught Error: NOT_FOUND_ERR: DOM Exception 8, file:///media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.wirc/app/assistants/app-assistant.js:53 Sep 25 00:31:24 happens Sep 25 00:31:55 how does one fix that without rebooting the phone? Sep 25 00:32:14 is it actually breaking anything? Sep 25 00:32:36 just wirc... fails to start Sep 25 00:32:47 hmm.... no idea Sep 25 00:35:16 got an email from at&t just now. apparently the $60 "unlimited data rate for life" isn't for life Sep 25 00:35:19 http://pastebin.org/1157031 Sep 25 00:35:41 i miss the good old days of cingular :( Sep 25 00:35:45 lol Sep 25 00:36:11 out of curiosity, what are you doing that draws down more than 5gb in a month Sep 25 00:36:15 me too, i had an OGO on cingular before at&t bought them and cancelled it off :p Sep 25 00:38:40 i use my phone om the road for internet, mostly vnc that eats it, but now i'm into podcast downloads, ampache, and uploading videos via pixelpipe... Sep 25 00:39:10 i guess ampache has to go Sep 25 00:39:27 and video uploads have to wait Sep 25 00:39:29 meh Sep 25 00:39:58 VNC is probably the big killer Sep 25 00:40:02 perhaps time to switch carriers Sep 25 00:45:13 I enjoy my sprint and using mytether since they dont care about data used on the actual phone Sep 25 00:45:52 although i'm probably gonna get the overdrive once my area gets 4g Sep 25 00:48:03 i abandoned verizon for cingular way back then because data hardly ever worked when roaming on cdma... whereas gsm pretty much guaranteed gprs no matter whose tower it was Sep 25 00:48:55 i usually have evdo even when i have low or no service on cdma Sep 25 00:49:43 thankfully to have no service i have to be somewhere extremely remote Sep 25 00:50:18 they also used to cripple all the phones, but it seems that practice is all over with, especially with verizon pushing android Sep 25 00:50:33 verizon still cripples phones Sep 25 00:51:07 i remember when i had verizon they tried to charge me to be able to use the bluetooth on my phone Sep 25 00:51:35 i was involved in the v710 lawsuit over bluetooth crippling Sep 25 00:51:51 that was the last straw Sep 25 00:52:13 yeah, Verizon still cripples, they just do things in their own ways Sep 25 00:52:26 like... wanting to have their own version of the Android Market where they control the apps in it Sep 25 00:52:36 rolling out their own location APIs instead of using the stock ones Sep 25 00:52:52 killing hippies... oh wait Sep 25 00:53:09 i'm honestly surprised verizon includes buttons on the phone with no extra charge Sep 25 00:53:19 lol Sep 25 00:53:20 well yeah a bit of that too, they love funding some weird weird politicians Sep 25 00:53:29 but that's neither here nor there Sep 25 00:53:43 maybe i'll grab up a free webos offering from sprint Sep 25 00:55:28 paid oodles of monies for pre plus on at&t, mainly because of the awesome unlimited data plan i expected to stick around forever Sep 25 00:56:11 i actually got $20 back for my pixi, ended up paying almost full price for my pre though Sep 25 01:09:13 So it seems the code Palm provides for SDL doesn't actually result in something that compiles Sep 25 01:09:24 Has anyone managed to get this to compile? Sep 25 01:14:02 Amaranth: afaik no. missing headers right? Sep 25 01:14:22 dtzWill: It's missing the opengles bits so I guess so Sep 25 01:16:07 Well, there goes building host libs for the PDK... Sep 25 01:17:12 Well, I guess that's probably in the include files for the PDK... Sep 25 01:17:38 eep halfhalo is logging me with nodejs :P Sep 25 01:17:48 no, its not working Sep 25 01:17:49 :p Sep 25 01:18:03 stupid regex is failing hard... Sep 25 01:26:17 wtf, even the SDL_opengles.h header doesn't provide SDL_OPENGLES Sep 25 01:27:51 Amaranth: iirc it had missing pieces with napp (or w/e it was called that generated the events), maybe some other libs Sep 25 01:27:58 ha, it's just a copy of the gl.h and glext.h headers Sep 25 01:28:17 that's all SDL_opengles.h and SDL_opengles_ext.h headers are Sep 25 01:28:43 dtzWill: Oh, I'm not defining the PALM env variable, trying to build a desktop version of the lib Sep 25 01:28:55 I've got dgles built, need SDL now Sep 25 01:29:05 Amaranth: oh, how are you expecting that to be different than normal SDL? Sep 25 01:29:21 dtzWill: Err, the OpenGL ES support Sep 25 01:29:21 i would (naively?) expect without the PALM def it would be the same as 'regular' SDL Sep 25 01:29:39 Nope, it sets up an accelerometer emulator or something too at least Sep 25 01:29:48 and makes changes to SDL_audio and etc Sep 25 01:29:55 Amaranth: shows what i know, march on :). Sep 25 01:29:57 It's a 450kB diff file... Sep 25 01:30:28 Amaranth: keep me/us posted, i know i'd /love/ to be able to test my pdk apps on my computer Sep 25 01:30:31 omg... i hate regex with a passion Sep 25 01:30:51 Ah, they have a custom SDL_video.h that they _don't_ include in their patch Sep 25 01:30:58 That's not even legal.. Sep 25 01:31:21 it will fail if there is an s in it.. Sep 25 01:31:39 halfhalo: regex is not the right way to parse IRC Sep 25 01:31:56 its not for irc perse Sep 25 01:32:02 thats already being taken care of Sep 25 01:32:30 heh.... heheh... forgot to escape \s Sep 25 01:32:45 !palm id com.silentbluesystems.steamfriendspro Sep 25 01:32:45 No Record of com.silentbluesystems.steamfriendspro! Sep 25 01:33:05 YOU SAW NOTHIN Sep 25 01:33:23 Getting closer to getting this built, complaining about EGL stuff now Sep 25 01:34:14 Luckily mesa has EGL support now Sep 25 01:34:28 Although if that's the fix this thing will only work on Ubuntu 10.10 Sep 25 01:35:30 Ok, that failed spectacularly, it seems they are leaving quite a lot out of their SDL patch Sep 25 01:35:51 I think it's time to contact Palm, actually Sep 25 01:37:24 doitdoitdoit Sep 25 01:37:45 Well, let me dig deeper here Sep 25 01:37:59 Amaranth: oh on windows they actually let you test apps on host?! Sep 25 01:38:04 Perhaps this part of the patch only applies correctly when building on Windows Sep 25 01:38:08 dtzWill: Yes, and on OS X Sep 25 01:38:14 ooooooo wow that would be excellent. Sep 25 01:38:22 They have a /opt/PalmPDK/host directory full of libs Sep 25 01:38:34 You link to those instead and you get a little window with your app running Sep 25 01:38:37 it would be *especially* excellent if i could start testing pixi-like hardware Sep 25 01:38:54 Amaranth: yeah, that's excellent. Sep 25 01:38:56 Oh, this is completely different from Pre or Pixi Sep 25 01:39:15 You can test on here to make sure the code at least seems to do what you want without installing to the device every build Sep 25 01:39:24 Amaranth: oh I was hoping it had some way of faking those, guess that's what the emulator is for Sep 25 01:39:26 But it doesn't really work the same way, different GL drivers and such Sep 25 01:39:29 Amaranth: I understand :( Sep 25 01:39:54 does the emulator support SDL at all? Sep 25 01:40:00 SDL w/o gles? Sep 25 01:40:03 And they appear to have a way to do GLES2 on the host too while dgles only gave me GLES Sep 25 01:40:05 Nope Sep 25 01:40:57 Amaranth: well i wonder what it's take to do a gles2->gl wrapper Sep 25 01:41:27 iirc they're fairly similar, gles2 being a relatively nice subset...of.. a version of gl i thought i remembered Sep 25 01:41:32 OpenGL 4.1 support on the host ;) Sep 25 01:42:05 I imagine you can get by with less but if you had OpenGL 4.1 support you could just use that and try not to use anything outside of what GLES2 actually supports Sep 25 01:42:26 Amaranth: yeah but that's just a matter of using GLES2 headers and letting the rest go undefined Sep 25 01:42:39 compiler-enforced compat ftw Sep 25 01:44:03 Actually it looks like you could almost get away with doing that with OpenGL 2.0 Sep 25 01:44:24 Amaranth: then maybe that's it. one of the versions of GL is pretty damn close Sep 25 01:44:27 And yay Intel gives me 2.1 Sep 25 01:44:33 Amaranth: hooray. intel? Sep 25 01:44:56 4.1 was the first release that actually added all of the bits to let you just change the headers and compile Sep 25 01:45:08 But GL2 is pretty close to GLES2 Sep 25 01:45:38 Amaranth: ah, kk. Sep 25 01:45:49 That's why AMD is now shipping EGL, GLES, and GLES2 drivers on Windows, once you support 4.1 it's simple to provide Sep 25 01:49:32 * Amaranth downloads a massive PowerVR SDK Sep 25 01:49:56 Hopefully this provides Linux libraries, it doesn't specify but the others I checked all specifically say windows Sep 25 01:50:11 It's a tar.gz so I think it will Sep 25 01:50:27 tar.gz is good news if you are looking for linux Sep 25 01:50:35 not a guarantee, but a good indicator Sep 25 01:50:36 your linux Sep 25 01:51:57 badumpsh Sep 25 01:52:13 Just got back from an Alumni dinner. Sep 25 01:52:45 They were throwing a welcome back to school party for people from the Kansas City area. Sep 25 01:52:59 Pizza and ice cream, yum. Sep 25 01:53:20 they held it at chuck e cheese? Sep 25 01:53:28 That would be win Sep 25 01:53:35 Ok, so it seems what they've actually left out is how they made this crap work on OS X and Windows Sep 25 01:54:13 I think I'm going to have to write a custom SDL_video backend mixing the OpenGL/GLX backend and the GLES/Palm backend Sep 25 01:55:13 So, I really want to do a SNES style RPG for the Pre, but I need someone to program it, how would I go about finding someone to do that? Sep 25 01:55:43 just port cavestory Sep 25 01:55:51 Zen00: you could start with learning C or C++ Sep 25 01:56:04 oh god cavestory Sep 25 01:56:13 :P Sep 25 01:56:41 Nah, I'm good at story, moderately good at art, good at design, but I'm no great shakes at programming. Sep 25 01:57:09 I'd need an artist type, a programmer type, and me. Sep 25 01:57:38 I tried taking programming here, but I failed miserably. Sep 25 02:00:32 * Zen00 scares the fish in his koi pond Sep 25 02:01:25 lol Sep 25 02:03:01 Ok so it seems the actual problem is SDL_fbvideo.c unconditionally compiles webOS specific things but SDL_fbvideo.h wisely only defines the things it needs ifdef PALM Sep 25 02:03:20 And the things in the C file use ioctl and such to manipulate the Pre/Pixi hardware Sep 25 02:03:32 This is such a fuckup Sep 25 02:03:48 dtzWill: This seems to be the part you were talking about with napp Sep 25 02:13:14 gah Sep 25 02:13:33 lol Sep 25 02:13:39 They do a little ifdef to define SDL_FBCON_VFB 1 or 0 then all of their checks for it are #ifdef Sep 25 02:14:06 So it always includes the code wrapped in #ifdef SDL_FBCON_VFB even though that's not what they meant to do Sep 25 02:15:36 It builds! Ship it! Sep 25 02:17:20 So I should be able to get everything except libpdl and libSDL_cinema Sep 25 02:17:26 And I might not be able to get GLES2 Sep 25 02:24:01 Amaranth: What are you building anyways? Sep 25 02:24:20 Zen00: a proper Linux PDK Sep 25 02:24:33 What for? Sep 25 02:24:37 dang, my SDL build still references DisplayFps Sep 25 02:24:46 Zen00: Because I want one :) Sep 25 02:25:00 All right. I wish I could do that kind of stuff. :( Sep 25 02:25:17 What I can do is make a better dish washing detergent at will using the power of chemistry! Sep 25 02:25:41 No scratchbox crap, no chance of accidentally including stuff from the homebrew scene that isn't allowed in the catalog Sep 25 02:25:53 Also it allows me to reuse my makefiles and such from OS X easily :) Sep 25 02:25:59 And if I get lucky, publish a paper on the ethanol content of local gasahol. Sep 25 02:26:02 Oh, and because Palm hasn't done it yet Sep 25 02:26:49 Stupid Dr. Battery... Sep 25 02:27:59 Whoa whoa whoa Sep 25 02:28:03 I think my SDL build works... Sep 25 02:28:04 Bah humbug, every time the voltage drops to the point I can start calibration, it tells me something has interrupted the calibration, even though I haven't even put it on the Touchstone yet. Sep 25 02:28:10 Yeah, it works Sep 25 02:28:22 And now my Pre has shut down, so I can't calibrate it. :P Sep 25 02:28:38 Oh well, it's only 2 or 3 percent off right now, not the 20% it was the first time around. Sep 25 02:28:46 Congrats! Sep 25 02:29:23 Well, it works well enough for my mainloop demo to run Sep 25 02:29:28 By the way, read this comic for awesomness. http://www.webcomicsnation.com/uvernon/irrationalfears/series.php Sep 25 02:29:40 Need to build the other SDL components to test my demo game code Sep 25 02:29:47 The artist publishes children's books that I see in the library occasionally. Sep 25 02:29:54 Which hilariously does not use my mainloop code Sep 25 02:30:10 Another game I'd like to see on the Pre is a clone of the old DOS game, Shooting Gallery. Sep 25 02:31:51 A cool app would be one that has an entire reference of Mythbusters episodes, and references to where they are on the web so that you tap on the one you want to watch and it opens (as far as non-flash sites go). Sep 25 02:34:49 oh god, they link to libavutil Sep 25 02:34:59 and libavformat Sep 25 02:35:09 * Amaranth crosses fingers and prays the API hasn't changed Sep 25 02:35:34 This is probably SDL fail though, I don't think Palm patches libsdl-mixer much Sep 25 02:45:45 Ha, in the end it links to the copies in /usr/lib, need some LD_LIBRARY_PATH magic Sep 25 02:47:20 But with that it links to my libraries and it runs! Sep 25 02:49:44 Now I wonder if anyone else would want this Sep 25 02:50:14 Amaranth: what do you have? does it support GLES/accelerometer/the things that make it better than using normal host copiues of SDL? Sep 25 02:50:50 dtzWill: I haven't looked closely at the accelerometer emulation to see how that is supposed to work but it does GLES 1 Sep 25 02:51:27 But if you aren't using Ubuntu 10.10 on amd64 it won't be useful for you Sep 25 02:51:38 Well, it probably works with fedora rawhide too Sep 25 02:52:33 Amaranth: great! gles is a big start :) Sep 25 02:52:46 Amaranth: accel ends up just being a joystick as exposed to the app Sep 25 02:52:52 Oh, but I probably can't distribute it, considering it uses parts of the official Palm PDK Sep 25 02:53:03 Amaranth: so i'd imagine you could just hook up any ol' joystick for testing :) Sep 25 02:53:12 I know how it works in PDK app code, I meant how they implement the emulation in SDL Sep 25 02:53:30 They have extra code to fake an accelerometer that doesn't appear to be a joystick Sep 25 02:53:36 oh, i just meant it matters less :). Sep 25 02:53:43 Amaranth: ahh okay :) Sep 25 02:55:29 well congrats! Sep 25 02:55:38 even if you can't ship the result you can ship a build system for the result Sep 25 02:55:44 Oh, cute, the accelerometer emulation does hold LSHIFT and move the mouse Sep 25 02:56:10 dtzWill: I had to patch Palm's SDL patch Sep 25 02:56:30 And it just pulled the toolchain out of the half built WIDK Sep 25 02:57:19 i think most people here would be interesting in (gulp) nuking much of the existing WIDK, it's too unmaintainable Sep 25 02:57:29 with respect to people wanting to maintain it anyway Sep 25 02:57:39 and so having something that works like the otehr PDK's would be glorious Sep 25 02:57:47 and having nice host support would be a fantastic part of that Sep 25 02:59:01 dtzWill: I could tar the 'pdk' folder I built the SDL and dgles stuff from and let you sort it out ;) Sep 25 02:59:07 Otherwise I suppose I'll do it eventually Sep 25 02:59:31 Or I could just package the final result and wait for someone to complain :D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 25 02:59:57 2010