**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 27 02:59:57 2010 Sep 27 03:18:53 * scoutcamper shakes his fist at ubuntu 9.04, does anyone know how to update javascript on ubuntu 9.04? Sep 27 03:22:16 So, just saw the tweet, what's up with this registry? Sep 27 03:28:17 oh cool Sep 27 03:29:19 TUV is basically the german FCC, they have to have any wireless devices registered through them... It seems that unlike the FCC, Palm either registered first with TUV, or TUV posted the info early while the FCC is still sitting on it (which they do from time to time with big releases like the iPhone) Sep 27 03:33:39 I wonder, what would make this release such a big deal to have the FCC sit on it. Sep 27 03:37:17 companies regularly request confidentiality from the FCC until release date Sep 27 03:37:39 Yeah, I figured they could do that, but wouldn't they have done the same with the Germans? Sep 27 03:38:04 Didn't take long to hit the main page. Sep 27 03:38:51 I wonder if HP/Palm will be angry about this leak, if it was intentional, or what. Sep 27 03:42:32 go TUV! Sep 27 03:45:25 engadget and the like troll the FCC database and post the interesting bits every friday, so asking for confidentiality until release keeps the FCC from outing your device before it's due Sep 27 03:45:34 and it might just be something to do with TUV's policies Sep 27 03:45:47 because looking at it, all it really says is that devices with those model numbers got tested Sep 27 03:45:56 but not things like what spectrums they got tested on, etc Sep 27 03:46:01 Not a thing about the. Sep 27 03:46:03 them. Sep 27 03:46:22 I really hope that it's not a 4G device, I don't want to have to pay for the added data service. :P Sep 27 03:46:31 3G works more than fine for my needs. Sep 27 03:48:29 rwhitby: Your new link is not working. :( Sep 27 03:48:43 eh, part of me hopes it's a 4G device... if only because my area is getting 4G roll out right now and it's really, really fast lol Sep 27 03:49:05 I tried out an Evo 4G and was getting ~7000kbps down :C Sep 27 03:49:13 our home dsl is like ~3000kpbs :C Sep 27 03:49:29 Yeah, I have 4G here too, bt really, it's not worth it to me as I don't use a phone as a primary source of connectivity. Sep 27 03:49:54 I like my desktop thank you very much, built it myself, OC it, water cool it, all that good stuff. Sep 27 03:50:26 WHY IS TWITTER REDIRECTING ME TO A BLOGGER PAGE AGAIN!!!!! Sep 27 03:51:17 This has happened twice in the past month, just for several hours Twitter redirects to a random blogger page of some asian girl. Sep 27 03:51:30 Or another website, don't remember what. Sep 27 03:51:35 It's real annoying. Sep 27 03:52:23 sounds like a virus or spyware... Sep 27 03:52:35 Nah. Sep 27 03:52:44 I think it has something to do with tabs in Firefox. Sep 27 03:52:52 As it fixes itself when I close FF. Sep 27 03:53:06 And I've tested my computer three ways from Sunday for a virus. Sep 27 03:55:02 Anyways, I'll go to bed, and see what's turned up in the morning. Sep 27 04:00:39 anyone around that wouldn't mind testing some kinetic scrolling code i wrote for supernes? :) Sep 27 04:00:43 (i can link ipk) Sep 27 04:01:27 dtzWill: send it Sep 27 04:03:19 yeah, I like my desktop too, but... my desktop doesn't fit in my pocket and come with me to class :p Sep 27 04:03:50 cryptk|wirc: you want preware package id or app cat or do you care? Sep 27 04:03:59 have you ever tried a port to the Pixi, dtzWill? Sep 27 04:04:11 cryptk|wirc: and do you have some roms? if not for testing purposes you can just create a bunnch of empty '.smc' files lol Sep 27 04:04:20 SineOt: yes, but it got stopped due to a complete inability to test properly. Sep 27 04:04:28 I have app cat installed already, but doesn't matter Sep 27 04:04:38 if you want to give it a shot, I'll do my best to help test~ Sep 27 04:05:06 cryptk|wirc: kk i'll send preware one, so later if it hits the app cat the one with your saves will always be the one with the clean version, etc :) Sep 27 04:06:18 SineOt: i appreciate it, but the issues are generally of the "it won't run at all b/c it's doing something slightly wrong" variety Sep 27 04:06:26 SineOt: are you familiar with gdb, etc? Sep 27 04:06:49 familiar in that I've heard of it, but that's about where my experience with it ends Sep 27 04:07:18 okay. well i'm swamped with updates to supernes and vba if i have time, but next time pixi hits the top of my todo list i'll poke you :) Sep 27 04:07:32 in other words if you sign off IRC i'll blame the lack of a pixi port on YOU Sep 27 04:07:35 ;) Sep 27 04:07:42 hahaha Sep 27 04:08:38 no pressure there, lol Sep 27 04:09:00 cryptk|wirc, anyone else that has a second: http://wdtz.org/files/org.webosinternals.supernes.preware_1.0.2_all.ipk Sep 27 04:09:23 big changes are new skin (lol), the kinetic scrolling, remembering where you are in the rom selector for when you return, aaandd Sep 27 04:10:03 better handling of huge rom collections, making the rom selector faster but won't crash if you have a ridiculous amount of roms :) Sep 27 04:10:15 well, okay it still might if you have like MAX_INT or something, but you know much LESS likely :) Sep 27 04:10:31 oh and it'll TRY to create the 'snes/roms' directory for people if it /can/. hopefully that helps some Sep 27 04:10:39 aka usability updates really :) Sep 27 04:12:04 cryptk|wirc: let me know what you think. i can change things like how quickly it slows down, etc, etc but big question is a "is this an improvement?" Sep 27 04:12:15 cryptk|wirc: or does it feel weird and stupid and should go back to how it was :) Sep 27 04:13:38 one change I would make is that instead of using the speed that they were scrolling at as the start speed, reduce it by about 25% Sep 27 04:13:53 so as soon as they lift a finger the list slows a little Sep 27 04:14:02 * rwhitby bbl Sep 27 04:14:09 cryptk|wirc: interesting. i thought it would feel unnatural if taht happened as opposed to extending the 'you're throwing the list' thing. Sep 27 04:14:12 but..i'll give that a shot, ty :). Sep 27 04:14:24 it is commonly done in kinetic lists and helps it to be more controllable Sep 27 04:14:24 * dtzWill has lots of ideas but is no expert at all. Sep 27 04:14:36 cryptk|wirc: yeah i believe you and it does seem a tad out of control O:) Sep 27 04:14:51 but the fact that it ticks instead of scrools makes it feel a little clunky IMHO Sep 27 04:15:15 cryptk|wirc: okay. i was hoping to avoid the scrolling since it actually would require rewriting a decent portion of that code :) Sep 27 04:15:26 yeah Sep 27 04:15:36 but yes, it is an improovement Sep 27 04:16:00 and the initial speed drop may not be needed,may just be weird because of the ticking Sep 27 04:16:13 wait Sep 27 04:16:18 I found the problem Sep 27 04:16:35 the list scrools almost twice as fast as I drag my thumb Sep 27 04:16:43 haha x.x. Sep 27 04:17:03 maybe even 3 times as fast Sep 27 04:17:24 that makes it hard to predict how far you are going to flick the list Sep 27 04:17:47 don't do the initial speed drop, but do make it a 1:1 scroll Sep 27 04:18:00 then send me a new build and I will let ya know Sep 27 04:18:18 evening Sep 27 04:18:32 cryptk|wirc: tyvm for the feedback. Sep 27 04:18:37 with about 30 entried in the list scrolling halfway puts me from one end to the other Sep 27 04:18:47 chrisA: evening Sep 27 04:21:03 this channel be jumping Sep 27 04:22:14 * halfhalo goes back to making a feed plugin for irc Sep 27 04:24:42 dtzWill: you haven't made my requested changes yet? geeze... slowpoke... Sep 27 04:24:57 cryptk|wirc: lol i definitely did but i don't like it good enough yet :). Sep 27 04:25:04 ahh Sep 27 04:25:21 just make it 1:1 scroll and it should be good Sep 27 04:25:48 cryptk|wirc: i think there's more to it, i'm using a mouse motion event to calculate the initial 'velocity' and i think that's not the best way. Sep 27 04:25:51 it just feels... wrong :/ Sep 27 04:25:54 it is just too touchy at 3:1 or whatever it is Sep 27 04:26:09 The internals twitter is pretty chatty now Sep 27 04:26:31 yup Sep 27 04:27:36 yep, someone found something, lol Sep 27 04:29:50 hm, new touchstone too? maybe my dream will come true and it'll have wireless USB too :'3 Sep 27 04:30:33 I am thinking more along the lines of a different angle on the top so a tablet can go on it Sep 27 04:31:22 because a computer doesn't put out enough power to run the touchstone Sep 27 04:31:37 No matter how you look at it, a standard touchstone at any angle would be awkward for a tablet Sep 27 04:31:46 you know, that makes me curious Sep 27 04:31:51 so you would be wirelessly USB'ing to the power company Sep 27 04:32:26 chrisA: not if it had some kind of support built on it, or placed on it, for a tablet Sep 27 04:32:40 and that support piece could come with the tablet Sep 27 04:32:58 So your proposed solution is a widget to clamp on to it Sep 27 04:33:08 For a power supply that already likely doesn't supply enough power Sep 27 04:33:18 I suggest reevaluation :) Sep 27 04:33:24 or a tablet stand that it would fit inside of Sep 27 04:33:40 higher power spec for the new touchstone Sep 27 04:33:51 to support the tablet Sep 27 04:33:57 all conjecture here Sep 27 04:34:07 does anyone know what the amp draw is on the Touchstone? I'd assume it's 1A Sep 27 04:34:13 and I am sure chrisA is laughing his ass off at how wrong I am Sep 27 04:34:27 I thinl aroung 1A yes Sep 27 04:34:30 touchstone charges around 650-700 mA SineOt Sep 27 04:34:38 s/thinl/think/ Sep 27 04:34:39 cryptk|wirc meant: I think aroung 1A yes Sep 27 04:34:46 there is your answer Sep 27 04:34:51 You're throttled by the battery (I believe the formula is something like .6 * capacity? I forget) Sep 27 04:35:11 granted a tablet would have a much larger battery capacity Sep 27 04:35:54 or perhaps the new touchstone has some basic comms in it Sep 27 04:36:11 well, it's more that I'm pretty sure that the iPad requires ~1100mA (that'd be 1.1A, right?) to charge over USB Sep 27 04:36:21 so the device wouldn't just know it is on A touchstone... but it would know which touchstone it was on Sep 27 04:36:27 which is something that any Mac made in the last like... 4 years can handle over USB Sep 27 04:36:36 and some PCs Sep 27 04:36:45 my work mbp can't handle ipad charging Sep 27 04:37:03 2007 model iirc Sep 27 04:37:09 cryptk|wirc: give that a shot? (updated, same link) Sep 27 04:37:11 I'd have to check the spec again, but I recall usb 2.0 only guarantees 500 mA Sep 27 04:37:20 Some will do higher yes, but it's not safe to rely on it Sep 27 04:37:30 indeed, ipad does violate the charging spec Sep 27 04:37:33 seems the earliest it came on was 2007 Sep 27 04:37:41 that is why tons of ipad users are pissed Sep 27 04:37:55 chrisA: gotta love public cert dbs ;) Sep 27 04:37:58 their computers won't charge it Sep 27 04:38:21 rwhitby: I prefer to learn of them via prototypes and schematics :) Sep 27 04:38:28 Though I guess I get no more of those Sep 27 04:38:55 chrisA: why wouldn't you? you stop working for HP/palm? Sep 27 04:39:03 mmhmm Sep 27 04:39:11 Wednesday Sep 27 04:39:30 ahh, didn't know that, hope you enjoy your new job (whatever it may be) Sep 27 04:39:54 I'm sad to see HP branding is taking over Sep 27 04:40:24 dtzWill: better... Sep 27 04:40:36 but it still doesn't seem to be 1:1 Sep 27 04:40:56 but how far off it is seems to vary bu how fast I am dragging Sep 27 04:41:04 actually I kinda like it Sep 27 04:41:36 drag real slow and it scrolls slower than the drag, drag real fast and it scrolls faster than the drag Sep 27 04:41:39 hm, looking at it: USB 3.0 has moved spec to allow at least to 900ma for charging, but that USB 2.0 spec is recommended to cap at 1500ma with the minimum being 500ma? I think Sep 27 04:41:58 1500? That's more than wall chargers even draw Sep 27 04:42:25 yeah, highest wall charger I have seen is like 1.2A Sep 27 04:42:41 apparently the USB spec says that dedicated wall chargers are allowed to go to 1.8A Sep 27 04:44:02 1.8A? wow... Sep 27 04:44:49 wtf are they gonna charge? a car battery? Sep 27 04:44:57 hmmm...... Sep 27 04:45:06 yeah, from the USB Forum's guidelines on Battery Charging: "The standard-A connectors defined in the USB 2.0 specification are rated for 1500 mA." Sep 27 04:45:13 Idea.... Sep 27 04:45:50 ?? Sep 27 04:45:54 and if you're doing USB 2 high speed data transfer, you're downrated to 900mA Sep 27 04:46:17 SineOt: to prevent interfearance Sep 27 04:46:36 so given this document is almost 2 years old, I think it's been USB spec, it's just that since the minimum you're required to meet the spec is 500ma, a lot of companies just play things cheap and go for the 500ma and -only- 500ma route Sep 27 04:46:36 yes Sep 27 04:46:43 I would rather work with SPI, I2C, or any number of other things than USB Sep 27 04:46:49 but if there's no data, 1500mA Sep 27 04:47:09 so a USB powered Touchstone would be doable Sep 27 04:47:53 trying it on my Mini that has the 1150mA ports, it cycles on and off as a charger (probably because it's no requesting to be bumped to ~1150mA or whatever since there's no chip in it, since it doesn't get reported as a USB device) Sep 27 04:48:12 hi Sep 27 04:48:30 usb is pretty damned complicated when it comes down to it .. :( Sep 27 04:48:38 yes it is Sep 27 04:48:38 SineOt: the 1500 probably only applies to USB A Sep 27 04:48:47 what about the smaller connectors Sep 27 04:48:48 USB is a lot like IBM's old networking protocol SNA actually ... Sep 27 04:48:58 karathos: hi Sep 27 04:49:00 is it ? Sep 27 04:49:07 how can I make my stock pre plus use less battery when it's in my pocket not in use Sep 27 04:49:15 power it down Sep 27 04:49:23 cryptk|wirc: if you're attaching it to a touchstone, I don't see why they couldn't just use USB A though Sep 27 04:49:30 karathos: set email to sync less, turn off messenging when not in use Sep 27 04:49:52 karathos: third party kernel, screenstate governor downclocking the phone while screen is off Sep 27 04:50:19 SineOt: because then it would be a separate cable than the one normally used on the phone Sep 27 04:50:20 I did the email and sync already thanks though Sep 27 04:50:36 I just recently got the govnah Sep 27 04:50:45 which would make the device seem more complicated Sep 27 04:50:56 karathos: what kernel are you using? Sep 27 04:51:18 and was messing with that for a minute but there's some technical stuff in there I just don't know Sep 27 04:51:31 using the stock kernel Sep 27 04:51:49 I was thinking about that uberkernel or whatever Sep 27 04:51:59 cryptk|wirc: it will continue to scroll using the delta between the last two mouse events as its metric. Sep 27 04:52:17 cryptk|wirc: i think it should somehow consider time or...something better. Sep 27 04:52:28 also feel like i'm reinventing the (scroll)wheel Sep 27 04:52:31 lol @ my own joke Sep 27 04:52:37 karathos: with stock kernel govnah won't do much for you Sep 27 04:52:55 SineOt: the 1500ma only applies to wall chargers Sep 27 04:53:18 so I have to get the uber. And that will let me throttle it down when I'm not using it? Sep 27 04:53:19 on a system devices are limited to 5 unit loads in high-power mode Sep 27 04:53:26 karathos: yes Sep 27 04:53:48 one unit load in USB 2.0 is 100ma Sep 27 04:54:11 so max 500ma per port in USB 2.0 on a computer Sep 27 04:54:12 I know I'm not gonna fry it by throttling it. But is there any other mishaps that this could cause? Sep 27 04:54:38 if you have a 'weak phone' then it could hang Sep 27 04:54:44 and refuse to boot Sep 27 04:54:55 which would then require a doctor Sep 27 04:55:17 pre plus isn't weak right? Sep 27 04:55:19 and no way to tell before hand if your phone is 'weak' or not Sep 27 04:55:27 it would be Sep 27 04:55:35 it isn't specific to not plus Sep 27 04:55:42 any phone can be weak Sep 27 04:55:47 I don't understand Sep 27 04:56:07 weak as in it can't handle very low or very high speeds Sep 27 04:56:28 has nothing to do with plus model or not plus model Sep 27 04:56:48 has to do with the processor (which all pre's have the same one) Sep 27 04:57:02 I thought pre plus had a diff processor than pre Sep 27 04:57:08 nope Sep 27 04:57:10 oh okay Sep 27 04:57:49 so then I could risk breaking my phone if I throttle it? Sep 27 04:58:25 not really, but you do void the warrenty Sep 27 04:59:05 stock) Sep 27 04:59:10 and aftermarket kernel voids warranty Sep 27 04:59:16 I don't think there have been any reports of phones being bricked by throttling them Sep 27 04:59:24 not bricked no Sep 27 04:59:28 (or from non crazy overclocking either) Sep 27 04:59:31 a doctor can fix it Sep 27 04:59:34 so it's more risky than leaving it at the stock? Sep 27 04:59:38 yes Sep 27 05:00:05 kernel changes involve risk and a little reading should be done first Sep 27 05:00:11 in the same way that a bmw is more risky than a mercedes Sep 27 05:00:54 karathos: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:UberKernel Sep 27 05:01:02 read all of that first Sep 27 05:01:09 it will explain alot Sep 27 05:01:26 and read the warning twice Sep 27 05:02:12 * halfhalo doesn't have to worry since he is waaaaaaay past the voiding warranty part of the program Sep 27 05:03:40 how long is the warranty? Sep 27 05:03:47 a year Sep 27 05:03:57 ooh tasty Sep 27 05:05:04 Iill deal with this crap battery life then. Maybe after a few months or so I'll check back and see how this is going Sep 27 05:05:28 could I bork my phone with just govnah? Sep 27 05:06:17 Nope Sep 27 05:06:31 awesome. Thanks yall Sep 27 05:06:40 see ya in a few months! Sep 27 05:06:44 gl hf Sep 27 05:09:23 oh, that reminds me Sep 27 05:09:32 even if USB A is the only one specced to 1.5A Sep 27 05:09:47 the MicroUSB from the wall charger for the current touchstone still does at least 1A Sep 27 05:12:07 yep Sep 27 05:12:27 god, I totally forgot how I was parsing the ipkg feeds before.... Sep 27 05:12:59 the thing is, to get over 5 unit loads is to short the data pins Sep 27 05:13:25 can't you sync -and- charge an iPad at the same time? Sep 27 05:13:34 well, the only way to get it out of a PC Sep 27 05:13:45 I don't think it does Sep 27 05:14:17 like I said, I think what it is is just that the USB spec only says that you have to do 5 unit loads for a total of 500ma, anything more is extra, so they don't Sep 27 05:14:22 on a battery specced computer I think the ipad will charge only while not transmitting data Sep 27 05:14:43 correction, per USB spec it cannot charge and send data Sep 27 05:14:44 because reading the USB thing on battery charging, they've got instructions on how your device can operate all the way up to 1800mA Sep 27 05:15:05 unless it can charge off of 500ma Sep 27 05:15:34 which is the mose power a spec compliant system can send while sending/recieving data Sep 27 05:15:48 can it? there's mention of if you're using USB Highspeed you're limited to 900mA to prevent interference with the data portion, and if you're using Full Speed or Low Speed you're allowed a lot higher mA Sep 27 05:16:05 SineOt: yes, but to get that kind of power you have to either use a wall charger OR short the data pins Sep 27 05:16:46 I'm really wishing I had an iPad with me :p Sep 27 05:17:05 without shorting D+ and D- a device will only get 500ma from a compliand USB controller Sep 27 05:17:14 you don't need one, read the spec Sep 27 05:17:19 woah there nelly... thats alot of undefined... Sep 27 05:17:27 the ipad violates the spec Sep 27 05:18:44 I am reading the spec? Sep 27 05:18:51 "Battery Charging Specification, Revision 1.1" Sep 27 05:19:04 "Portable Device Current from Charging Downstream Port at High-speed" would be a standard USB port, wouldn't it? Sep 27 05:19:58 yes Sep 27 05:20:29 cryptk|wirc: where does all this awesome knowledge come from? Sep 27 05:20:31 they list it as being a max 900mA Sep 27 05:20:41 if you operate at low speed or full speed, 1500mA Sep 27 05:20:47 with no data, 1800mA Sep 27 05:20:51 is that the 2.0 or 3.0 spec Sep 27 05:21:00 2.0 spec Sep 27 05:21:06 3.0 allows 6 units at 150ma per unit Sep 27 05:21:09 this is from April 2009 Sep 27 05:22:47 looking at it, I think what it is is that the minimum you can have while being considered in spec is 6 units at 150mA a unit Sep 27 05:23:50 http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_1.zip this is the document I'm finding this in, if you're curious Sep 27 05:24:12 SineOt: 5 and 6 unit loads are the maximums Sep 27 05:24:22 but that is for data spec Sep 27 05:24:44 thing is, battery charging spec is kinda new and as such not all mobo's support it Sep 27 05:25:14 which is why you will not see a PC USB touchstone Sep 27 05:25:24 or it is at least less likely Sep 27 05:26:10 * halfhalo has sucess! Sep 27 05:26:31 man this gets confusing Sep 27 05:26:35 "Thus, a Portable Device is able to communicate with a Charging Downstream Port at low-speed or full-speed when drawing a current of IDEV_CDP_LFS max." Sep 27 05:26:44 IDEV_CDP_LFS max is 1500mA Sep 27 05:28:20 if you assume a similar life time to the current touchstone, which is probably going to be 2 years old when the new one releases, I'd say it'd be worth betting that most mobos would be able to supply 1A over USB by that point :p Sep 27 05:29:28 they could just make the stone support it... and if your computer doesn't then 'sorry' Sep 27 05:29:37 'use the wall plug' Sep 27 05:29:45 yeah, exactly Sep 27 05:29:59 similar to what Apple has done with the iPad Sep 27 05:30:04 not palms fault you have old hardware, lol Sep 27 05:30:09 "won't charge on USB? good thing we gave you a wall plug" Sep 27 05:34:05 if a touchstone can do charging and USB through induction via some magic, then by golly they'd have a (near) perfect device Sep 27 05:34:27 SineOt: bluetooth receiver in the touchstone Sep 27 05:34:39 problem solved Sep 27 05:35:15 err radio, not receiver Sep 27 05:35:21 that'd be cool Sep 27 05:35:31 it'd be dumb if it was anything other than Bluetooth 3 though Sep 27 05:36:00 2.1mbps versus 24mbps versus 480mbps Sep 27 05:36:24 yeah Sep 27 05:37:31 oh wow that's kind of dumb, way to go Bluetooth SIG: "It supports theoretical data transfer speeds of up to 24 Mbit/s, though not over the Bluetooth link itself. Instead, the Bluetooth link is used for negotiation and establishment, and the high data rate traffic is carried over a colocated 802.11 link" Sep 27 05:37:57 so they just coopt wifi for the higher speeds on BT3, and still only get 24mbit out of it? Sep 27 05:38:46 engadget has new WebOS 2.0 screen shots. You can set the alarms to have an ascending volume :'3 Sep 27 05:38:48 oh, oh, oh! Just froze textmate! Sep 27 05:39:19 BT3 has dual radios yes, it is like cell phones and 4G data Sep 27 05:39:28 accidentally tried to open the packages.db file... which, as you guess, is full of packages Sep 27 05:39:36 they use wimax for the high speed basically Sep 27 05:39:46 halfhalo: lol Sep 27 05:40:19 hmmm... its only 1.1MB..... Sep 27 05:40:43 probably can't display the binary data and it got hung Sep 27 05:40:44 yeah, it's just kind of sad that they're still only getting a theoretical max of 24mbit out of it Sep 27 05:40:55 is what I meant Sep 27 05:41:17 I know bandwidth is somewhat determined by frequencies used Sep 27 05:41:49 ask ka6sox-work he may know more info about radio frequencies/bandwidth... he is a radio tower guy Sep 27 05:41:52 * halfhalo thinks this is a sign to give up for the night.... Sep 27 05:41:59 given it's probably operating in the same 2.4 and 5ghz ranges as 11g and 11n, though... Sep 27 05:42:17 not sure, never looked into it Sep 27 05:42:53 current bluetooth 1/2+EDR operates in the 2.4ghz range Sep 27 05:43:11 since 3 has backwards compat with 1/2 I'd assume it's the same Sep 27 05:45:06 yeah Sep 27 05:48:16 sleep time Sep 27 06:34:55 so... in 1.4.5 does every app run in a jail or just some apps? Sep 27 06:36:45 all PDK apps. Pure mojo apps don't have any other binaries, so there is no need. Sep 27 06:38:30 humm.. so got x working again. but then angrybirds didn't. can't we just exclude x from jails or something? Sep 27 06:39:28 is wIRC a PDK? I think it may have also had trouble with jails disabled. Sep 27 06:46:57 Remove /etc/nojail to turn jails back on again. It's an all-or-nothing setting. Sep 27 06:47:21 curious though that /any/ app would *fail* with jails disabled? Sep 27 06:47:31 i mean unintentionally anyway Sep 27 06:47:40 auhh. alrigt. I'll just setup an alias to turn it on and off I guess. thanks again... Sep 27 06:48:24 that is odd that an app would fail with jails off... Sep 27 06:49:07 I may have been out of memory or something. are you saying that angrybirds should still run with jail disabled? Sep 27 06:50:42 I would expect it to. Sep 27 06:53:02 ok, gonna try and sleep again... night all Sep 27 06:53:24 let me test. btw does jail/unjail happen on the fly or require rebooting? Sep 27 06:56:48 it appears that jail/unjail is instant. with jail off angrybirds launches it's card and then quits, no splash screen. Sep 27 06:57:07 is wirc a jailed app? Sep 27 06:58:33 is there an irc /help like command? Sep 27 07:05:28 wirc is jailed Sep 27 07:07:57 it doesn't have a /help command, lol Sep 27 07:08:00 maybe it should Sep 27 07:09:30 I'm just unfamilure with irc. lookin for valid command list... Sep 27 07:17:00 D0li0: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:WIRC gas a list of commands Sep 27 07:17:20 that wirc supports Sep 27 07:17:33 ty Sep 27 07:20:38 and there is some aliases in the preferences Sep 27 07:34:00 oh hay.. anyone know how to run a fsck on a Pre? safely that is... Sep 27 14:35:48 afternoon Sep 27 14:36:55 hello Sep 27 14:39:49 i need help Sep 27 14:40:29 with? Sep 27 14:41:16 virtual keyboard Sep 27 14:42:06 go ahead Sep 27 14:42:30 i have a azerty palm pre plus Sep 27 14:42:58 ok Sep 27 14:43:07 i installed vk and vk themes but no error in installation Sep 27 14:43:18 but it didnt work Sep 27 14:44:29 i've seen the same problem Sep 27 14:44:39 on a qwertz device Sep 27 14:46:25 do you solve the problem? Sep 27 14:51:59 not yet Sep 27 14:52:10 see if you can talk to egaudet Sep 27 14:52:36 how? Sep 27 14:53:11 he's on here sometimes Sep 27 14:53:17 but probably still asleep Sep 27 16:08:01 last tim I tried openvpn on my pre, I found that the most trivial incommings from the vpn would wake the device since it's a userspace app.. Sep 27 16:08:31 I guess that's the end of my thought. Sep 27 16:52:35 jettero: can you have iptables block it while sleeping? Sep 27 16:58:03 rwhitby: great job stirring up the hornet's nest! bet there are some HP marketing folks in crisis mode this morning! Sep 27 16:59:13 hrm, did i miss some news? Sep 27 17:00:42 rwhitby found some reports of new palm devices being submitted for some kind of standards testing Sep 27 17:00:49 ah sweet Sep 27 17:01:30 i could use a new pre Sep 27 17:35:44 cryptk|work: Link? Sep 27 17:36:10 look at the recent tweets on the webos-internals twitter Sep 27 17:36:15 http://twitter.com/webosinternals Sep 27 17:36:23 the ones over the past 24 hours or so Sep 27 17:36:32 or the front page of precentral or webosroundup Sep 27 17:36:36 or engadget Sep 27 17:37:46 Very interesting. Sep 27 17:38:02 A car touchstone with a stronger magnet would be handy. Sep 27 17:38:49 And, well, I'll wait before jumping for joy on the new phone, but. Sep 27 17:44:40 hay Sep 27 17:46:33 they might redesign the touchstones to be compatible with "the standard" now that there is one Sep 27 17:46:47 which of course means we all have to buy new ones Sep 27 17:47:32 there is a standard for touchstone? Sep 27 17:47:42 there's a standard for inductive charging Sep 27 17:48:08 called qi Sep 27 17:49:25 http://is.gd/fw2Ok Sep 27 17:58:18 mikewx: Only for newer devices, I can't see a reason to replace the touchstone and back on my phone. Sep 27 18:00:19 anyone here have a pre and want to help suggest some control scheme ideas for a game i ported over Sep 27 18:04:49 ryan[WIN]: Ask your questions, and people here will answer, or not. Sep 27 18:05:41 http://www.diod.es/ryanwin/shippre.zip - current BAD scheme is t/v are left/right and f/h are up/down and p is fire Sep 27 18:06:21 you need to have a terminal program to invoke it since it's not in an ipk yet Sep 27 18:09:08 Any reason not to use the accelerometar for that and tapping on the screen for fire? Sep 27 18:10:26 it treats it as a joystick in SDL right Sep 27 18:12:33 Not sure. Sep 27 18:12:38 Possibly. Sep 27 18:44:01 acceloremeter is joystick, yes Sep 27 18:45:53 ryan[WIN]: I think I know this game, someone parted it to PalmOs Sep 27 18:46:12 MetaView, yeah tapwave zodiac/palm os Sep 27 18:46:22 right, was it you? Sep 27 18:46:30 i didn't do the port, i made the original :> Sep 27 18:46:39 oh :) Sep 27 18:46:57 porting shippy1984 is like my hello world these days Sep 27 18:48:08 surprised to see the palm either supports or pretends to support 8bpp rendering Sep 27 18:51:55 oh, i remember the tapwave zodiac .. ahead of it's time Sep 27 18:52:28 have 2 on my desk Sep 27 18:53:15 prolly should find a large box for my palm graveyard Sep 27 18:56:08 lol Sep 27 18:58:05 anyone got pixi screen protectors? Sep 27 19:06:32 * MetaView has only one Zod Sep 27 19:07:55 i dont know which pixi screen protectors to get Sep 27 19:15:54 phantom skinz and skinomi usually get the best reviews Sep 27 19:25:31 ok thanks Sep 27 20:15:09 cryptk|work: you see the supernes update in the cat? if/when you get a chance mind poking at it? Sep 27 20:15:29 cryptk|work: people report the new rom selector is /crashy/ which is just terrible and unacceptable...but unfortunately I can' reproduce it. Sep 27 20:15:36 (which is why it got pushed, heh :() Sep 27 20:15:44 cryptk|work: also i'm curious if you think i finally got the kinetic stuff right :) Sep 27 20:16:55 ok Sep 27 20:21:36 cryptk|work: tyvm. i realize.. you're at work :) Sep 27 20:24:05 dtzWill: it still isn't quite in sync with my finger Sep 27 20:24:45 but the scrollbar is nice Sep 27 20:27:56 cryptk|work: okay. well thanks for looking :). and didn't crash on you or anything? ): Sep 27 20:28:16 nope Sep 27 20:30:29 cryptk|work: okay, thanks. :) Sep 27 21:29:11 man, wonder what kind of battery life that Blackberry tablet is going to get Sep 27 21:54:46 hi all .. question .. im in the market for a new phone .. im currently an android lover lol .. this palm has been catching my eye for a very long time .. im a huge texter .. im looking at reviews on this device and this keyboard is way to small .. anyone else have this problem .. or is there some kind of hack or whatever to put on a touch screen keyboard ? Sep 27 21:55:05 im an avid texter Sep 27 21:57:42 The keyboard is very usable Sep 27 21:58:11 so currently im on android and its touch screen Sep 27 21:58:11 But it may not have a resilient enough '.' key for you Sep 27 21:58:14 so i can't fat finger Sep 27 21:58:40 but yea .. plam pre phones are atractive Sep 27 21:58:41 lol Sep 27 21:58:43 very Sep 27 22:00:22 is this the chan for rooting palm or no ? Sep 27 22:00:34 it doesn't need to be rooted Sep 27 22:00:42 hmm Sep 27 22:00:50 all phones get rooted lol 0_o what makes palm diff ? Sep 27 22:00:56 macman_: the Pre keyboard is okay, although I like the Pixi one better. Most people I've talked to like the Pixi one more Sep 27 22:01:02 you don't have to do anything special to root it Sep 27 22:01:08 just type in a string of letters and it's done Sep 27 22:01:08 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux Sep 27 22:01:12 macman_: ^^^ Sep 27 22:01:21 ha Sep 27 22:01:22 no need for special roms or for someone to find an exploit Sep 27 22:01:23 its linux ? Sep 27 22:01:53 it's linux + a proprietary GUI Sep 27 22:01:56 essentially Sep 27 22:02:05 how good is the spell check Sep 27 22:02:26 and does it have a custom dictionary/ it learns from Sep 27 22:02:36 that I don't know Sep 27 22:03:05 you can replace the spellcheck dictionary with a bigger one easily Sep 27 22:03:15 spell check is okay, catches most common things out of the box Sep 27 22:03:26 no custom one that's easy to get to but that'll be coming in webOS 2.0 Sep 27 22:03:42 plam is java based like the samsing impression i had eh ? Sep 27 22:03:48 nope Sep 27 22:03:50 no Sep 27 22:03:55 .jar ? Sep 27 22:03:57 at least not in any meaningful way Sep 27 22:04:06 the .jar stuff is for desktop apps Sep 27 22:04:11 oh Sep 27 22:04:31 and I think the facebook background service is java or something isn't it? Sep 27 22:04:56 i saw a review that t-mobile had a hotspot and the att palm won't have it Sep 27 22:05:01 there a way to get it ? Sep 27 22:05:02 no, its havascript Sep 27 22:05:11 vzw has mobile hotspot Sep 27 22:05:44 i like my android but my brother in law is on sprint and i keep looking at his palm Sep 27 22:05:46 0_o Sep 27 22:05:59 i've been thru blackberry / iphone / currenly on android Sep 27 22:06:15 macman_: I'm getting ready to move to palm, I think Sep 27 22:06:20 as for getting it onto another carrier, that violates some carrier agreement or another and hence, is not talked about here Sep 27 22:06:22 I've held out for a while because I've been on SERO Sep 27 22:06:28 I do love my pre plus on sprint Sep 27 22:06:42 summatusmentis, your have a hero / android phone ? Sep 27 22:07:05 macman_: not officially, SERO doesn't allow android or webos phones (until october) Sep 27 22:07:05 Processor TI OMAP 3430 < -- what the heck ? Sep 27 22:07:13 what about it Sep 27 22:07:20 is that 1ghz 528mhz Sep 27 22:07:27 macman_: I've got an HTC Touch, which is fully supported by open source android efforts Sep 27 22:07:51 it's 550mhz iirc Sep 27 22:07:55 oh Sep 27 22:07:58 It runs at 600mhz at stock for games Sep 27 22:07:59 but can be overclocked to 1ghz or higher Sep 27 22:08:04 yup Sep 27 22:08:04 ... Sep 27 22:08:07 oo i like that Sep 27 22:08:18 alright guys Sep 27 22:08:23 http://www.diod.es/ryanwin/shippre.zip Sep 27 22:08:41 j/m move left and right, n/k move up and down and you tap the screen to fire Sep 27 22:08:59 best part to tap on screen is where the extra shippies are Sep 27 22:09:19 must be run from the terminal since it's not in an ipk Sep 27 22:11:16 how is gps ? Sep 27 22:11:37 depends on the carrier, on Verizon it's kind of slow but otherwise it's awesome Sep 27 22:11:58 my Sprint Pixi picks up my location to about 50 feet within a few seconds Sep 27 22:13:44 when my phone gets gps it's really nice, but a lot of the time it never locks on (I'm on verizon) Sep 27 22:14:48 I've been looking into ways to "help" it, but right now my stopping point is I lack a 32 bit windows machine Sep 27 22:16:17 k thx Sep 27 22:16:25 i will have to do more research 0_o Sep 27 22:16:30 if i get it i will idel of course Sep 27 22:16:31 lol Sep 27 22:16:35 oh Sep 27 22:16:44 was going to say wait a few months to see what pans out with the p102 :p Sep 27 22:21:22 SineOt: I was planning on getting a pre in october, but now I'm almost gonna wait Sep 27 22:21:43 I'd say wait at least like, a few months Sep 27 22:22:06 I mean there's so much coming out right now with webOS 2 and with stuff on like the P102 that it might be worth it Sep 27 22:22:14 even if you decide to just go with the Pre anyways Sep 27 22:22:50 if only Palm/HP emulated Apple in one way... That new iPhones pretty much come in June/July without fail lol Sep 27 22:23:47 from what I have read, they have a whole timeline planned for the next year, likely with multiple device launches Sep 27 22:24:12 My best guess is that they decided to re-invent the next new palm phone because of all of the delays Sep 27 22:24:20 delays caused by the purchase of palm etc Sep 27 22:24:30 it would have made that successor not be considered 'top of the line' Sep 27 22:26:19 yeah, but it's just like... how long should I wait? a whole timeline planned for the next year might mean June Sep 27 22:26:50 I'd say... January? Sep 27 22:26:58 By that point I'm sure that what's coming will be a lot more in focus Sep 27 22:27:59 hopefully Sep 27 22:28:12 I'd love to see something released in october, but I doubt that'll happen Sep 27 22:28:15 at least with regards to webOS 2.0 features Sep 27 22:28:37 I'm so anxious for webos 2.0 Sep 27 22:31:24 anybody else think RIM made a huge mistake by announcing the playbook 4-6 months before it actually hits the market? Sep 27 22:32:12 wow that's a long while Sep 27 22:32:15 No way they can sustain the hype Sep 27 22:33:46 wow I have never not seen rwhitby here Sep 27 22:34:28 scoutcamper: haha ya! either he is not here but still logged in... odd eh? Sep 27 22:34:56 ka6sox-work: ka6sox-away: are you around? Sep 27 22:35:18 jack yep, every Sep 27 22:35:41 lol Sep 27 22:35:48 * scoutcamper meant very Sep 27 22:36:08 idontwan2know, I don't know, it could go either way Sep 27 22:36:25 with it being a dual core Cortex A9, speed wise it should stay fresh for a long time Sep 27 22:36:38 and if it has support for BBM, then a ton of dumb 20 somethings are going to want one Sep 27 22:37:30 Yeah, but are they going to wait around/remember it when there's dozens of other releases and anouncements happening between now and the thing actually hitting shelves? Sep 27 22:37:58 those 20 somethings have a very short attention span Sep 27 22:38:05 trust me, I am one Sep 27 22:39:26 the installing openssh page reads like it expects that you've set up a user account Sep 27 22:39:47 those 20 somethings also probably aren't following the Blackberry Developer Days though lol Sep 27 22:39:47 but the page entitled "Set up users, Optware, and access" is labeled deprecated Sep 27 22:40:34 install preware, install openssh via preware Sep 27 22:41:11 oh, and installing preware allows you to set up a user account Sep 27 22:41:27 * scoutcamper goes to setup ash on his linux server Sep 27 22:41:36 ssh* Sep 27 22:46:14 does anyone know, can you host a webserver(apache or????) from a pre? Sep 27 22:46:41 someone was early on, I don't know how that still works Sep 27 22:46:54 if I understand correctly, all of optware is now in preware Sep 27 22:47:00 and I believe optware has a webserver Sep 27 22:47:11 this is worrisome... not all of the photos that I've taken show up in the DCIM folder Sep 27 22:47:31 optware has a webserver Sep 27 22:47:34 they show up in the photo roll, but I can't find them on the drive when I plug in the phone Sep 27 22:48:21 k, thanks summatusmentis and basotl Sep 27 22:48:47 ragingmind pre, pre+ and what webos? Sep 27 22:49:13 verizon prē+ with 1.4.5 Sep 27 22:49:16 SineOt: You will never have more press than when you announce a new product...giving the market 4-6 months to forget about it is not smart. Ask Palm. Sep 27 22:49:36 ask apple with the first iphone :p Sep 27 22:49:46 s'why I said that it could go both ways Sep 27 22:49:57 that was a case of entering a market with no strong competitors Sep 27 22:50:14 same thing if you're gonna be the first to market with a new console Sep 27 22:50:27 the only competitor right now is the iPad, and at least with the technical specs, this beats it Sep 27 22:50:36 doesn't matter Sep 27 22:50:50 there will be plenty of competitors Sep 27 22:51:21 As an FYI Lighty is the webserver available. Sep 27 22:51:21 all announcing and releasing before customers have a chance to buy a playbook Sep 27 22:52:47 I could be wrong, but I think this is a major mistake. Sep 27 22:53:40 Waiting another couple months and anouncing it just before the holiday buying season kicks into gear would have been much smarter...the product would be fresh in people's minds and might convince them to hold off on a tablet purchase until they can get a playbook Sep 27 22:57:40 I think the problem with the comparison to Palm and the Pre as to how the delay in release can hurt, it'd be worth keeping in mind that the Pre was the very first entry into a new device ecosystem with webOS Sep 27 22:57:56 while this is entering an already established one as another possible device with the Blackberry OS Sep 27 22:58:44 anyone have an idea where my photos are? Sep 27 22:58:52 It doesn't use blackberry OS Sep 27 23:00:44 oh no... I found them Sep 27 23:01:19 RagingMind: hooray :) Sep 27 23:01:25 the pre uses the lowest possible number for new photos and doesn't just continue after the highest number found? Sep 27 23:01:29 that's... wow Sep 27 23:01:47 from what I had read, you'll be able to run Blackberry apps on it, even though it's running the "Blackberry OS for Tablets" or whatever they call it Sep 27 23:01:58 this is really really really awful for me. it destroys the entire way I manage digital cameras Sep 27 23:03:27 morning Sep 27 23:03:36 RagingMind: make a patch? :( Sep 27 23:03:38 rwhitby: 'morning Sep 27 23:03:58 p sure that's what the "improved photo naming" patches are for Sep 27 23:04:06 gives them names based on the time and date they're taken Sep 27 23:04:23 there you go :) Sep 27 23:04:24 I'm actually quite pissed off by this... it's going to take me a while to pick apart this big f***ed up pool of pictures into something manageable Sep 27 23:04:51 RagingMind: are the timestamps on the files accurate? maybe you could use those to do your renaming Sep 27 23:06:04 dtzWill, yeah I can separate them out that way, but that doesn't solve my name collision problem Sep 27 23:06:17 ^ "Improved Photo Naming" patch Sep 27 23:06:33 I have a very particular way that I manage my photos... I have a folder that is named for the device that took them Sep 27 23:07:06 and I kinda use the numbers that are assigned when the photo is taken like a serial number Sep 27 23:07:46 now I have to go though and figure out what all of the recent photos *should* have been numbered to make it fit Sep 27 23:08:15 well, you pretty much have one of two options: rage about it, or use the Improved Photo Naming patch and just deal with dates instead of arbitrary number schemes ;P Sep 27 23:08:37 if I had one wish right now it'd be that the person that decided this would be the default behavior would get fired Sep 27 23:08:50 To class I go... goodbye peeps. Welcome back rwhitby. Sep 27 23:08:58 I'll use the patch... but I needed to rant. Sep 27 23:09:24 Improved Photo Naming CIMG: "CIMG_YYYY-MM-DD-hhmmss.jpg" Sep 27 23:15:56 ugh...people complaining about webOS on printers don't get it Sep 27 23:16:26 People need printers. People already buy HP printers. They'll still buy HP printers with webOS, whether they "need" it or not. Sep 27 23:16:45 yeah... but I want to play angry birds while printing! Sep 27 23:17:49 HP will sell 15 million webOS printers next year. That's 2-3 times the number of Palm phones they could hope to sell in their wildest dreams. Sep 27 23:18:14 And every one of them is a potential customer for app developers. Sep 27 23:20:29 I mean whatever they're named now, if their timestamps encode the ordering you want, use that to create new names for all those photos Sep 27 23:27:54 but anyway that might not work for a number of reasons, just making sure my suggestion was clear :) Sep 27 23:28:15 I think the WebOS printers sound nice for networked use. Sep 27 23:29:03 I agree...disconnecting the printer from the need for a PC is a great thing and webOS is just the thing to do it. Sep 27 23:32:22 i imagine they'll just use webos to replace whatever software they currently have in their printers with touch screens. I saw a few of them at office max. Sep 27 23:32:54 A LINUX PRINTER Sep 27 23:32:55 <333 Sep 27 23:33:04 that blackberry tablet looks pretty sweet. basically what i'd want from a webos tablet at first glance anyway. Sep 27 23:33:21 although i am rather attached to webos, they sure did a fantastic job on that video from where i'm siting :) Sep 27 23:33:22 if i went back in time Sep 27 23:33:31 and told people that we'd be making homebrew apps for printers Sep 27 23:33:37 they'd say "ur crazy" Sep 27 23:34:23 dtzWill: I agree, it does look like a pretty nice piece of kit Sep 27 23:34:47 ryan[WIN]: go back farther and explain what a printer is and you'd say you're crazy ;) Sep 27 23:35:11 you can always tell how old a programming language is by whether or not it includes a "print" statement Sep 27 23:35:21 because it used to mean actually printing :< Sep 27 23:35:23 go back far enough and show a lighter and they'll think you're crazy :p Sep 27 23:36:21 they'd think you're a witch and try to burn you Sep 27 23:36:52 RagingMind: luckily you gave them a lighter so starting the fire is a lot easier Sep 27 23:42:05 woo time for a doctoring Sep 28 01:37:20 hmm...so a freshly doctored phone, put it in dev mode, and plug in the usb and it doesn't ask me what to do with it Sep 28 01:37:27 it just goes straight to charging Sep 28 01:45:17 Who be this frigg that be asking for me CTCP VERSION? (I know he's a robot, but what is that?) Sep 28 01:45:18 its freenode asking you irc client what version it is at Sep 28 01:45:37 I'm just using the website. Sep 28 01:46:09 It probably asks everyone. Sep 28 01:46:47 yup, it does Sep 28 01:53:50 First time I've seen it. Sep 28 01:54:05 So, who's ever done a standard addition? Sep 28 02:00:00 Loudergood, (undoctored) my phone was doing that a couple days ago. I wound up having to reboot my computer Sep 28 02:02:15 Zen00: what do you mean a standard addition? Sep 28 02:02:31 It's chemistry stuff. Sep 28 02:03:00 I may have, but good luck getting any useful info out of me Sep 28 02:20:21 Give us a big announcement! Something important! Make me excited to hang out here! Sep 28 02:20:54 maybe something will happen tomorrow Sep 28 02:21:05 just keep repeating that to yourself Sep 28 02:21:08 one day you'll be right Sep 28 02:22:03 Maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow... That has to be the sadest, most procrastinating mantra ever. Sep 28 02:22:19 Well, if the news isn't coming to me, time for me to make the news... Sep 28 02:22:25 make it Sep 28 02:22:58 I pondered it, maybe a fake leak or two here or there about the P102 having a landscape slider keyboard Sep 28 02:23:15 or maybe go whole hog, dual mode slider? landscape and portrait? Sep 28 02:23:21 i heard it's a 7" phone with 2 slide out keyboards Sep 28 02:23:22 I was just talking with a friend who knows this guy who works in a factory in China for $0.02 a day, and he says that his boss thinks there's the chance that a new Palm phone is in the works... Sep 28 02:23:25 while(!palm_hardware_announcement){ think('maybe tomorrow...'); goToTomorrow(); } Sep 28 02:23:33 hell trimode :Q Sep 28 02:23:43 landscape/portrait qwerty and a standard phone pad Sep 28 02:23:50 UI adjusts on the fly based on which is open Sep 28 02:24:05 although that'd actually be kind of cool, hm Sep 28 02:24:11 Oooo, must put on PreCentral home page... Sep 28 02:24:31 So I know this guy who knows this guy who went to china once and talked to this guy who knew someone in sunnyvale Sep 28 02:24:35 actually that'd be really cool. I'd love to see landscape webOS Sep 28 02:24:36 We need Mythbusters to do an episode on this. Sep 28 02:24:37 and he totally thinks there is a new phone Sep 28 02:24:42 * chrisA groans Sep 28 02:24:51 chrisA you're totally wrong, it's 3 new phones :Q Sep 28 02:25:05 And a Touchstone that launches mini-rockets! Sep 28 02:25:07 Zen00: announcements don't happen here. that's what twitter is for Sep 28 02:25:13 well, we KNOW there are new phones.. we just don't know what they are! Sep 28 02:25:21 * halfhalo thinks we need a twitter up in here Sep 28 02:25:25 I'm not wrong, I'm just not willing to confirm/deny any information Sep 28 02:25:29 chrisA: oh yeah? does the new phone make calls ? Sep 28 02:25:37 Why would a phone do that? Sep 28 02:25:40 Thats more than the old one does! Sep 28 02:25:46 zing! Sep 28 02:25:58 * halfhalo highfive Sep 28 02:26:00 halfhalo: actually, all we know is that TUV has certified some phone hardware from Palm which happens to have model numbers that are sequential in the naming scheme to existing devices. Sep 28 02:26:13 i heard palm is going to stop making phones and is going right into the iphone accessories market .. there's a ton more money in that market Sep 28 02:26:38 imagine a device that your iphone can tether to .. like a tablet .. foleo or something ? Sep 28 02:26:44 revolutionary! Sep 28 02:26:47 Way to chill a conversation. Sep 28 02:26:50 :P Sep 28 02:26:50 whether or not those certified devices will ever reach the market, and if so, when, is a completely different question, for which there is no publicly available information that I have seen Sep 28 02:26:51 rwhitby: even without the TUV stuff, We still know palm is working on new stuff, just no more details Sep 28 02:27:11 how much does it cost to get a device certified ? Sep 28 02:27:21 I wonder how much a black market prototype would go for if they never do go in for mass production? Sep 28 02:27:26 heaps, so it's usually done quite late in the schedule Sep 28 02:27:34 bpadalino: ^^ Sep 28 02:28:07 bpadalino: but I've seen devices at big companies cancelled after certification before Sep 28 02:28:09 always surprised that there's no more consolidation in the radio features of a device if it costs so much to certify each device .. Sep 28 02:28:10 Zen00: not sure, I could try ebaying some canceled projects and see Sep 28 02:28:14 I hate my chemistry lab book. Sep 28 02:28:18 one for gsm, one for cdma, one for blah blah blah Sep 28 02:28:21 It's the worst ever. Sep 28 02:28:47 I love my O-Chem book, but this Quantitative Chemical Analysis sucks. Sep 28 02:28:50 rwhitby: that is surprising! must have been a terrible device :( Sep 28 02:28:54 It's completely unreadable. Sep 28 02:28:58 bpadalino: manuf cost of a consolidated device is larger than two specialised, including once-off certification costs probably Sep 28 02:29:11 bpadalino: no, the market had a disruptive change Sep 28 02:29:16 There are plenty of reasons to kill a product off post-cert but before mass production Sep 28 02:29:20 Say the market has changed Sep 28 02:29:25 Say your carrier deals fell through Sep 28 02:29:46 rwhitby: you think so? with the chipsets today that do everything .. i'd imagine it can't be that difficult or expensive to get a single device that does it all Sep 28 02:29:50 See, I want a webOS tablet much more than a webOS phone right now. I would love a content consumption device. Sep 28 02:29:54 unless the RF sections are THAT complicated Sep 28 02:30:08 carrier deals .. i hate how the carrier is the customer .. Sep 28 02:30:12 RF requires entire teams of specialty engineers Sep 28 02:30:16 I want a webOS TV so I can watch four shows at once at the same time :Q Sep 28 02:30:16 bpadalino: I believe it's more the complicated RF bits, but I'm no RF engineer Sep 28 02:30:28 bpadalino: what chrisA said :) Sep 28 02:30:43 everything is vector IQ modulators now .. it's not like there are a lot of IFs now .. Sep 28 02:31:28 The more I know about the fine details of cellular technologies, the more I stand in awe that we can actually make phone calls on a daily basis. Sep 28 02:31:30 though maybe it's all just RF Sep 28 02:31:38 I still wish I could Frankenstein some more RAM onto my Pre from my old sticks lying around. :P Sep 28 02:31:44 rwhitby: oh it's pretty spectacular, that's for sure .. Sep 28 02:32:04 it's a little irritating when people complain that the piece of technology failed them at the "most inconvenient time" Sep 28 02:32:32 So, who here still wants Flash on their phone? I don't, mainly for security flaws right now. Sep 28 02:32:49 After going to factories in asia for builds I am amazed any consumer product is ever released Sep 28 02:33:03 chrisA: do you think USA manufacturing can do better ? Sep 28 02:33:16 It's not an issue with the region Sep 28 02:33:33 Just watching things that can crop up Sep 28 02:33:38 and how often vendors fuck up Sep 28 02:33:43 I wonder, how much of a premium that people would pay for a US built phone. Sep 28 02:33:49 yeah, vendors are pretty terrible Sep 28 02:33:58 there's a big tantalum capacitor shortage right now Sep 28 02:33:58 Though having people who were sweet potato farmers last week building phones the next week Sep 28 02:34:02 Not great Sep 28 02:34:37 Not exactly the best of choices of workers then. Sep 28 02:35:04 hard to find skilled labor to do that stuff Sep 28 02:35:24 even finding defects is difficult to do with those boards.. BGA components .. 01005 sizes Sep 28 02:35:43 Meh, too bad we can't do it all with robotics. Sep 28 02:35:51 I suspect they still do a better job at it than I would, 100 devices an hour, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week ... Sep 28 02:36:14 I want new products to come out so I can put them on my resume and add them to my set of production boxes Sep 28 02:36:18 i hand soldered 4 boards today .. thru hole or 1206 components .. Sep 28 02:36:21 took me like 2 hours Sep 28 02:36:31 I'm sure after you've built them for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for a few months, you'd do just as good at it :p Sep 28 02:36:38 I can't solder a single thing for the life of me Sep 28 02:36:47 SineOt: the point is that I wouldn't Sep 28 02:36:50 rs232 to ttl converters Sep 28 02:37:28 I soldered my headset back together, that's about all I've done. Sep 28 02:38:03 i'm much better at ripping up pcb traces from test points that don't have any strain relief Sep 28 02:38:08 i am a pro at that Sep 28 02:38:56 i've got fpga build issues now .. with a lack of good constraints Sep 28 02:39:24 fpga is unfortunately over my head Sep 28 02:39:24 I don't know what those acronyms mean. Sep 28 02:39:46 pcb = printed circuit board, fpga = field programmable gate array (programmable logic) Sep 28 02:40:12 it's my dayjob Sep 28 02:41:22 I know the PCB one. Sep 28 02:41:27 oh ok Sep 28 02:41:32 Thanks for the expo on FPGA. Sep 28 02:41:42 Still don't know what it is. Sep 28 02:41:53 it's like assembly, but you aren't restricted by the registers you can use .. Sep 28 02:41:59 and every clock cycle you get to choose what you want to do Sep 28 02:42:25 Yeah, over my head Sep 28 02:42:26 Meh, that's all CS major stuff to me. Sep 28 02:42:40 computer engineering more than science .. Sep 28 02:42:43 I did a single asm class so far Sep 28 02:42:45 I quite that after failing at Java. Sep 28 02:43:09 Java is just.... annoying to me Sep 28 02:43:11 it's actually interesting how different CE is from CS .. and amazing the lack of overlap Sep 28 02:43:24 Its easy, but i hate it Sep 28 02:44:47 For the most part, how programs work for me is by magic. Sep 28 02:44:59 It's easier to think that way. :D Sep 28 02:45:28 I want to show a cave man some of our stuff today and watch his brain explode. Sep 28 02:48:33 you think a caveman would care? maybe about the mechanical stuff .. but i doubt about the technological wizardly Sep 28 02:48:38 wizardry Sep 28 02:48:56 flashing lights would Sep 28 02:50:10 or sound, or video or etc Sep 28 02:50:14 hell, flashing lights amaze me now Sep 28 02:50:25 blinky Sep 28 02:50:51 when my Pixi bugs out and forgets it has a gesture area and just flashes the little bar at me, it's like "oh man that is so cool" *blink blink blink blink* Sep 28 02:51:04 It always seems to work in those movies when people go back in time. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 28 02:59:57 2010