**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 05 02:59:58 2010
Nov 05 03:00:36 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, I'm going to do that now
Nov 05 03:01:19 <destinal> rwhitby: incidentally I can chroot to my pre's proper rootfs fine so they are _there_ at least
Nov 05 03:02:00 <rwhitby> I'm novaterm'd in and sitting in /tmp/tcmnt_889/boot which flashing to prevent the unmount so I can do stuff manually
Nov 05 03:02:08 <rwhitby> s/which/while/
Nov 05 03:02:08 <infobot> rwhitby meant: I'm novaterm'd in and sitting in /tmp/tcmnt_889/boot while flashing to prevent the unmount so I can do stuff manually
Nov 05 03:02:27 <rwhitby> I love how my mind can think on thing, and my fingers can correctly type a completely different word
Nov 05 03:02:58 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby, my fingers do that all the time
Nov 05 03:05:33 <egaudet> rwhitby, do we have any pre2 public reports of sucessful doctor?
Nov 05 03:06:35 <rwhitby> egaudet: no, but there's no reason why it wouldn't
Nov 05 03:06:59 <egaudet> well if it's using readlink on the installer images /lib it will try to get ld-2.5.so
Nov 05 03:07:06 <egaudet> when it needs ld-2.8.so
Nov 05 03:07:12 <egaudet> and that -would- explain the missing lib
Nov 05 03:07:14 <egaudet> s
Nov 05 03:07:31 <rwhitby> ah, we're using the 1.4.5 installer
Nov 05 03:07:40 <destinal> oooooohh
Nov 05 03:07:42 <destinal> aha
Nov 05 03:07:58 <destinal> that would be the key difference there.  nice, egaudet
Nov 05 03:08:12 <destinal> egaudet: they're using an installer with different libs
Nov 05 03:08:21 <destinal> rwhitby: let's repack the _proper_ installer image, eh?
Nov 05 03:08:26 <egaudet> yeah so let's do that :P
Nov 05 03:08:38 <rwhitby> ok, so we need a uImage unpacker
Nov 05 03:09:37 <rwhitby> alternatively, we patch tcpostflash.sh (which would be a useful meta-doctor feature in itself)
Nov 05 03:09:57 <egaudet> patch tcpostflash.sh for what?
Nov 05 03:10:18 <rwhitby> to readlink relative to the new rootfs lib instead of the installer lib
Nov 05 03:11:52 <destinal> rwhitby: yeah, editing uimages != trivial it seems
Nov 05 03:12:08 <rwhitby> destinal: yes, I've needed to do that before, and gave up early
Nov 05 03:12:20 <rwhitby> patching tcpostflash.sh is much easier
Nov 05 03:12:56 <destinal> rwhitby: ok, let's do that.  I worry that other stuff may be picky too and we'll amass a large list of hacks, but may as well be making progress
Nov 05 03:13:33 <destinal> and adding this doesn't preclude fixing uImage later
Nov 05 03:13:34 <rwhitby> alternatively, we copy the old libs into the new boot
Nov 05 03:13:58 <rwhitby> in fact, I should be able to do that very easily manually
Nov 05 03:14:01 <destinal> let me try it by hand and see if it boots
Nov 05 03:15:38 <egaudet> but using the 1.4.5 doctor should have used the old tcpostflash right?
Nov 05 03:15:50 <egaudet> oh nvm right the new rootfs
Nov 05 03:16:21 <destinal> root@palm-webos-device:/# chroot /mnt/root/boot
Nov 05 03:16:21 <destinal> @palm-webos-device:/#
Nov 05 03:17:11 <rwhitby> egaudet: and old tcpostflash would not do the extra lvm nodes as you noticed
Nov 05 03:17:12 <destinal> let's see if it boots
Nov 05 03:17:34 <rwhitby> libc, libm and ld, right?
Nov 05 03:18:02 <destinal> rwhitby: yup
Nov 05 03:18:10 <destinal> just copied them from the mounted root
Nov 05 03:18:57 <destinal> flashing palm logo,luna start
Nov 05 03:20:10 <destinal> really stuttery though
Nov 05 03:20:12 <egaudet> root@roadrunner:/#
Nov 05 03:20:26 <rwhitby> damn, I copied them to /boot instead of /boot/lib, so now I'm lagging behind you :)
Nov 05 03:20:52 <rwhitby> booting, starting node )
Nov 05 03:21:43 <destinal> egaudet: did you have to use a newer novacom on PC side to get that/
Nov 05 03:21:51 <egaudet> destinal, no
Nov 05 03:22:27 <egaudet> destinal, did yours boot?
Nov 05 03:22:31 <destinal> still flashing palm logo btw
Nov 05 03:22:37 <egaudet> yeah me too
Nov 05 03:22:53 <egaudet> 2010-11-05T03:17:32.633422Z [211] roadrunner user.err hidd: HiddEventIpc.c:440 : _SendEvent: Connection refused [Errors since last msg: 5]
Nov 05 03:23:14 <egaudet> 2010-11-05T03:17:31.846954Z [211] roadrunner user.warning activitymanager[1791]: [activitymanager.systemmanagerproxy] Subscription to System Manager failed, retrying: {"errorCode":-1,"errorText":"com.palm.systemmanager is not running.","returnValue":false,"serviceName":"com.palm.systemmanager"}
Nov 05 03:24:00 <rwhitby> lots of minicores
Nov 05 03:24:28 <rwhitby> it's the toolchain change
Nov 05 03:25:21 <rwhitby> LunaSysMgr failing to start
Nov 05 03:25:29 <egaudet> i get a segfault trying to start luna in the foreground
Nov 05 03:25:43 <egaudet> ** (LunaSysMgr:7656): CRITICAL **: FATAL:(TextureSharedCompositingWindow::TextureSharedCompositingWindow(int, int, unsigned int, HostWindowDataOpenGLTextureShared*):66) gc
Nov 05 03:28:04 <rwhitby> copied new kernel modules into rootfs, trying with that.  not expecting it to work.
Nov 05 03:28:32 * rwhitby holds vol key
Nov 05 03:28:47 <rwhitby> ok, we have novcom
Nov 05 03:30:17 <rwhitby> 2010-10-09T01:28:07.457061Z [91] roadrunner kern.warning kernel: [   91.410000] sd8xxx: Unknown symbol omap3_rev
Nov 05 03:30:51 <rwhitby> so new modules won't work on old kernel
Nov 05 03:30:51 <linuxjacques> it's as if modules don't match kernel
Nov 05 03:30:51 <egaudet> I get tons of unknown symbols from the bridgedriver
Nov 05 03:31:08 <egaudet> oh it's using new modules yeah gotta fix that
Nov 05 03:31:26 <rwhitby> 2010-10-09T01:29:16.984527Z [160] roadrunner kern.warning kernel: [  160.940000] bridgedriver: Unknown symbol omap3_max_vdd1_opp
Nov 05 03:31:54 <rwhitby> egaudet: no, it's using old modules, and they don't work , and new modules don't work with old kernel
Nov 05 03:32:06 <rwhitby> I've just tested boht
Nov 05 03:32:29 <egaudet> well unknown symbols mean that either modules or kernel is new
Nov 05 03:32:57 <linuxjacques> agree
Nov 05 03:32:58 <rwhitby> egaudet: my unknown symbols are from new modules on old kernel
Nov 05 03:33:30 <egaudet> rwhitby, right
Nov 05 03:33:39 <egaudet> it's using new modules
Nov 05 03:33:43 <rwhitby> NO
Nov 05 03:33:55 <rwhitby> I intentionally copied new modules in after it failed with old modules
Nov 05 03:33:59 <rwhitby> 13:52 rwhitby: copied new kernel modules into rootfs, trying with that.  not expecting it to work.
Nov 05 03:34:02 <egaudet> mine is using new module
Nov 05 03:34:04 <egaudet> modules*
Nov 05 03:34:10 <rwhitby> why?
Nov 05 03:34:16 <egaudet> and i did NOT intentionally copy them in
Nov 05 03:34:23 <rwhitby> did you give CUSTOM_KERNEL_DIR ?
Nov 05 03:34:33 <rwhitby> paste your command line to build doctor
Nov 05 03:35:09 <egaudet> http://webos.pastebin.com/6WdDsyvz
Nov 05 03:35:17 <egaudet> TMP is 2.0
Nov 05 03:35:30 <egaudet> disregard my funky all over the place directory lol
Nov 05 03:36:01 <rwhitby> CUSTOM_KERNEL_DIR=/home/egaudet/WEBOS/unpacked/webos-1.4.5/resources is wrong
Nov 05 03:36:10 <rwhitby> should point to ..../rootfs
Nov 05 03:36:19 <egaudet> I don't have rootfs
Nov 05 03:36:31 <egaudet> resources has usr, bin, boot etc...
Nov 05 03:36:39 <rwhitby> next level up
Nov 05 03:36:40 <egaudet> so if rootfs is just base of rootfs then it should work
Nov 05 03:37:07 <rwhitby> did you use the unpack-doctor script?
Nov 05 03:37:17 <egaudet> no
Nov 05 03:37:30 <rwhitby> you have an unknown pedigree then
Nov 05 03:37:36 <egaudet> no I don't
Nov 05 03:37:40 <egaudet> CUSTOM_KERNEL_DIR/lib is there
Nov 05 03:38:15 <rwhitby> did you use the meta-doctor with the tar fix?
Nov 05 03:38:22 <destinal> my USB subsystem finally died with all the insert and remove
Nov 05 03:38:30 <egaudet> tar fix?  The latest one
Nov 05 03:38:51 <rwhitby> yep
Nov 05 03:38:57 <destinal> rwhitby: so lunasysmgr is segfaulting?
Nov 05 03:39:39 <destinal> rwhitby: it could be a lot of things including plugins.  anyone tried tracing it?
Nov 05 03:40:29 <destinal> rwhitby: I suppose it could be graphics too unfortunately if they have device specific builds due to different graphics processors but I hope not
Nov 05 03:40:32 * rwhitby bbl
Nov 05 03:40:49 <rwhitby> I suspect the graphics - ti pvr libs
Nov 05 03:42:00 <linuxjacques> the kernel<->userspace interface for graphics hardware has changed?
Nov 05 03:42:28 <destinal> linuxjacques: if it's modular like a library we may be able to pull in a 1.4.5 version
Nov 05 03:42:39 <linuxjacques> hmm
Nov 05 03:43:02 <destinal> if it's in kernelspace though, that's a lot harder
Nov 05 03:43:52 <destinal> linuxjacques: this is a build for roadrunner so if the userland matches a kernel change and the architecture is the same as 1.4.5 we may be able to grab the matching 1.4.5 library
Nov 05 03:44:31 <destinal> if changes are in lunasysmgr binary itself though, that would be less fun
Nov 05 03:54:05 <egaudet> First thing I see from Luna that looks off is
Nov 05 03:54:07 <egaudet> LoadNamedWSModule /usr/lib/egl/libeglsubdrv.so
Nov 05 03:54:07 <egaudet> Could not initialize EGL display - are the drivers loaded?
Nov 05 03:57:53 <PuffTheMagic> this looks fun
Nov 05 03:58:25 <PuffTheMagic> you all are gonna finish this then the next morning real doctors will be out ;)
Nov 05 04:03:54 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: lol
Nov 05 04:04:07 <PuffTheMagic> its happened more than once
Nov 05 04:04:30 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: totally.  and sometimes, maybe *because* we finish :)
Nov 05 04:04:31 <PuffTheMagic> should just make a fake post on p|c saying we figured it out and see what happens
Nov 05 04:04:54 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: remember that one stubbed library you did?
Nov 05 04:05:04 <PuffTheMagic> yup
Nov 05 04:05:45 <egaudet> I'll bet we need that dspbridge module
Nov 05 04:07:08 <destinal> are there equvilent libs in 1.4.5 that may work with the kernel and hw we have?
Nov 05 04:11:39 <simzz> hey
Nov 05 04:11:44 <simzz> I am new to palm
Nov 05 04:11:48 <simzz> and saw prewar
Nov 05 04:11:55 <simzz> preware
Nov 05 04:12:25 <simzz> I was wondering how risky it is to install apps from it
Nov 05 04:12:34 <simzz> are there viruses or malware?
Nov 05 04:12:39 <rwhitby> none yet
Nov 05 04:12:54 <simzz> could i brick my phone if i am not careful
Nov 05 04:12:57 <rwhitby> no
Nov 05 04:13:09 <rwhitby> doctor will always fix it
Nov 05 04:13:09 <simzz> any reason NOT to install preware?
Nov 05 04:13:15 <rwhitby> no
Nov 05 04:13:24 <simzz> cool
Nov 05 04:13:26 <simzz> thanks
Nov 05 04:13:29 <rwhitby> but I'm biased of course
Nov 05 04:13:41 <halfhalo> as you should be
Nov 05 04:14:16 <rwhitby> simzz: make sure you follow the intructions in the Preware Homebrew Documentation app in the official app catalog
Nov 05 04:14:27 <simzz> are you at least partly honest even though you are biased?
Nov 05 04:14:36 <rwhitby> 100%
Nov 05 04:14:39 <simzz> thanks
Nov 05 04:15:13 <simzz> I was also wondering what webos quick install was
Nov 05 04:15:20 <simzz> and how to get it
Nov 05 04:15:30 <rwhitby> that is all explained in the PHD app
Nov 05 04:15:36 <rwhitby> go get that app first
Nov 05 04:15:57 <simzz> in the pre market?
Nov 05 04:16:02 <rwhitby> yes
Nov 05 04:16:07 <simzz> ok
Nov 05 04:16:11 <simzz> thank you
Nov 05 04:16:15 <rwhitby> it's #8 on the hottest apps list
Nov 05 04:16:24 <simzz> and why does the phone have to be in dev mode
Nov 05 04:16:41 <rwhitby> again, answered in the app
Nov 05 04:16:45 <simzz> ok
Nov 05 04:16:48 <simzz> thanks
Nov 05 04:16:53 <simzz> for the help
Nov 05 04:17:01 <rwhitby> np - tell your friend about the app too
Nov 05 04:17:03 <destinal> rwhitby: somehow I didn't realize we had that
Nov 05 04:17:09 <simzz> bye
Nov 05 04:17:28 <destinal> that's a cool way to collect answers to frequently asked questions I guess
Nov 05 04:18:28 <rwhitby> you should check it out - it's in git
Nov 05 04:19:28 <destinal> cool.  I have to get a little bit of work done and then get to bed.  I have a feeling we're still close but like Puff said, it'd be funny if OTA for sprint hits in a few days   :)  (though I kind of doubt it will)
Nov 05 04:20:26 <destinal> even if it does though the experience is worth it
Nov 05 04:21:00 <rwhitby> destinal: http://forums.precentral.net/2746264-post31.html
Nov 05 04:21:35 <destinal> rwhitby: exactly
Nov 05 04:26:45 <ashi_todd> hi
Nov 05 04:26:51 <rwhitby> ashi_todd: g'day
Nov 05 04:26:57 <ashi_todd> hi rod
Nov 05 04:27:25 <rwhitby> ashi_todd: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals.txt
Nov 05 04:28:14 * ashi_todd reads
Nov 05 04:28:31 <rwhitby> there's stuff before that, but that's the summary pretty much
Nov 05 04:33:24 <ashi_todd> cool
Nov 05 04:33:27 <ashi_todd> bbiab, thanks
Nov 05 05:06:03 <ryan[WIN]> o hai
Nov 05 05:09:57 <ashi_todd> hi
Nov 05 05:10:12 <ashi_todd> rebuilt with new Makefile, reflashing now.
Nov 05 05:13:07 <rwhitby> ashi_todd: we also have the ability to put the 2.0 rootfs into the 1.4.5 doctor now too
Nov 05 05:13:39 <ashi_todd> neat
Nov 05 05:13:45 <rwhitby> you'll need to add PATCH_DOCTOR=1 if doing the old way
Nov 05 05:14:27 <ashi_todd> ah, add that to the command you put in the forum?
Nov 05 05:15:31 <ashi_todd> I'm flashing a Sprint Pre with a Verizon radio and tokens, with a broken touchscreen. :) I was using it as a battery charger.
Nov 05 05:22:57 <ashi_todd> reflashing again.
Nov 05 05:33:44 <rwhitby> ashi_todd: instructions updated. I'd appreciate if you can proof-read them to make sure they are correct
Nov 05 05:34:02 <rwhitby> and I've put the PATCH_DOCTOR in the Makefile now
Nov 05 05:34:37 <ashi_todd> will do. ooh, got a longer klog this time.
Nov 05 05:34:59 <ashi_todd> got to: kernel panic - not syncing: no init found.
Nov 05 05:35:11 <rwhitby> yep, update to web page shows how to get past there
Nov 05 05:35:30 <ashi_todd> yay, thanks.  will read and follow it and proof-read.
Nov 05 05:39:19 <rwhitby> egaudet: you still working on anything?
Nov 05 05:40:03 <rwhitby> I wonder if recompiling the 1.4.5 Palm kernel with the new toolchain will make a difference ...
Nov 05 05:42:58 <ashi_todd> I've been editing the Makefile to DEVICE = pre2 and CARRIER = wr ... should I be doing that?
Nov 05 05:43:43 <ashi_todd> Oh, I see DEVICE is in the command
Nov 05 05:44:08 * ashi_todd will leave it alone
Nov 05 05:44:11 <rwhitby> no need to edit Makefile
Nov 05 05:44:36 <rwhitby> and make sure you've got the latest Makefile - it changes frequently :)
Nov 05 05:44:58 <ashi_todd> just got it again, and i noticed :)
Nov 05 05:48:05 <ashi_todd> aha, got an error on the 2nd method... have to unpack both doctors now i guess.
Nov 05 05:49:32 <rwhitby> yep, I added that up top
Nov 05 05:49:43 <rwhitby> sorry, fast moving instructions :)
Nov 05 05:49:54 <ashi_todd> ahh i see it, yup
Nov 05 05:51:37 <ashi_todd> the first time i tried to adapt it to use the sprint version instead of wr, but I gave up, since it's not completely working yet anyway.
Nov 05 05:55:33 <ashi_todd> hmm getting an error on make memload-wr mount
Nov 05 05:56:29 <ashi_todd> oh i haven't even flashed it yet... getting sleepy heh
Nov 05 05:56:48 <rwhitby> you need to flash, and then get it into recovery mode
Nov 05 05:56:58 <ashi_todd> right
Nov 05 05:57:44 <ashi_todd> flashing
Nov 05 06:13:47 <ashi_todd> hmm okay i held down the up arrow while it rebooted. It looks like the next step is make memload-wr mount, but that gives me an error.
Nov 05 06:14:28 <ashi_todd> Please download the correct version of the webOS Doctor .jar file
Nov 05 06:14:29 <ashi_todd> and then move it to downloads/webosdoctor-wr-.jar (i.e. the downloads directory that was just created under the current directory).
Nov 05 06:14:42 <rwhitby> ah, ok.  make DEVICE=pre ...
Nov 05 06:14:56 <ashi_todd> right
Nov 05 06:15:22 <ashi_todd> there it goes :)
Nov 05 06:15:31 <rwhitby> instructions updated
Nov 05 06:16:38 <ashi_todd> oh i think i'll need to mount -o remount,rw /
Nov 05 06:16:49 <ashi_todd> cp: cannot create '/tmp/boot/lib/libc-2.8.so': Read-only file system
Nov 05 06:17:22 <ashi_todd> hmm no, still has that error
Nov 05 06:17:31 <ashi_todd> perhaps not /
Nov 05 06:17:47 <ashi_todd> /tmp/boot
Nov 05 06:18:03 <ashi_todd> aha.
Nov 05 06:19:02 <ashi_todd> i got those copied after: mount -o remount,rw /tmp/boot
Nov 05 06:19:34 <ashi_todd> which i see is already in teh instructions now
Nov 05 06:21:22 <ashi_todd> shall i reboot it now?  /tmp/root/sbin/shutdown now -r
Nov 05 06:22:20 <ashi_todd> no, it doesn't like that.
Nov 05 06:22:56 <ashi_todd> shutdown: (00397/479989013) Unable to send message: Connection refused
Nov 05 06:23:41 <ashi_todd> /etc/init.d/reboot works
Nov 05 06:25:56 <ashi_todd> nice to see: root@roadrunner:/#
Nov 05 06:26:43 <ashi_todd> dmesg output is interesting
Nov 05 06:32:01 <ashi_todd> ooh the shutdown animation is prettier.  I did a shutdown now -h, and the animation was different/brighter, and it had a "do not remove battery" warning on the bottom.
Nov 05 06:32:28 * ashi_todd going to bed, looking forward to catching up on the thread and IRC in the morning.
Nov 05 06:32:39 <ashi_todd> Thanks for all the hard work!
Nov 05 06:34:58 <rwhitby> ashi_todd: good night
Nov 05 08:39:42 <[AD]Turbo> yo all
Nov 05 09:49:54 <cryptk> everyone who complains about battery life should just get a new battery and then use UK on 500/1000 SS
Nov 05 09:50:07 <cryptk> I'm on day three with no charge, still at 35%
Nov 05 09:50:45 <cryptk> granted, there was very light use, one or two quick calls a day and only a handfull of texts, plus I have had good signal strength the whole time so it hasn't been searching for a signal at all
Nov 05 09:51:11 <cryptk> but if it will go this long with very light use, it will definitely last all day with moderate/moderately heavy use
Nov 05 09:51:51 <cryptk> I used to think the battery life was really bad, then shamoo killed my battery and I got a new one from Sprint... man, the battery life is actually kinda amazing
Nov 05 09:52:07 <cryptk> my girlfriends Epic won't even last a day and a half without it doing anything... no use at all...
Nov 05 09:54:00 <rwhitby> Hmm - I've got a Palm Profile with a device record that says OS Version 9.9.9
Nov 05 09:54:59 <cryptk> ?? where did you get that info from?
Nov 05 09:55:15 <rwhitby> log into your palm profile
Nov 05 09:55:17 <rwhitby> on the web
Nov 05 09:55:32 <rwhitby> https://ps.palmws.com/palmcsext/console/pages/LoginPage.iface
Nov 05 09:55:51 <sconix> rwhitby: mine says the same
Nov 05 09:56:00 <sconix> although my old profile shows correct version
Nov 05 09:56:41 <rwhitby> sconix: no access to paid apps on that profile?
Nov 05 09:56:45 <sconix> I have wondered could that be a reason why I can't get some free apps from app catalog even though I have managed to get them before
Nov 05 09:56:50 <sconix> no
Nov 05 09:57:08 <rwhitby> sconix: was that profile used with a meta-doctored device?
Nov 05 09:57:09 <cryptk> mine kinda has the right version
Nov 05 09:57:13 <cryptk> 1.40.50
Nov 05 09:57:22 <rwhitby> yeah, that's normal
Nov 05 09:57:37 <cryptk> yeah, the extra zeros are odd though, lol
Nov 05 09:58:18 <cryptk> anyone else tried minefield yet (FF 4.0)
Nov 05 09:58:20 <sconix> rwhitby: I am not 100% sure but it might be that I once used this when I had meta doctored with the bypass carrier check or something like that set
Nov 05 09:58:40 <sconix> I wonder if that version can be fixed somehow or is it time for new profile again...
Nov 05 09:58:57 <rwhitby> sconix: I'm testing that out now, trying different things to fix the profile
Nov 05 09:58:58 <cryptk> I was just wondering if meta doc could cause it... I have run on meta doc alot, but never bypassed carrier check or anything
Nov 05 09:59:12 <rwhitby> no, simple meta-doc doesn't cause it
Nov 05 09:59:24 <sconix> rwhitby: ok thats good, please let me know if you find a cure
Nov 05 09:59:33 <cryptk> rwhitby, did oil's work at getting a 2.0 1.4.5 frankendoc ever work? I remember you were stuck at init with a KP
Nov 05 09:59:42 <rwhitby> sconix: GSM device?
Nov 05 09:59:52 <sconix> yes
Nov 05 09:59:53 <rwhitby> cryptk: oil's work?
Nov 05 10:00:09 <rwhitby> cryptk: http://bit.ly/frankendoctor
Nov 05 10:00:32 <cryptk> well, I remember oil was doing some work on it
Nov 05 10:01:21 <rwhitby> sconix: have you tried reflashing the device with activation not bypassed, and then activate with a real sim ?
Nov 05 10:01:47 <rwhitby> (so it can send the SMS message back to palm on activation)
Nov 05 10:02:37 <rwhitby> cryptk: I don't think oil was doing any work on it. maybe you mean destinal
Nov 05 10:03:01 <sconix> yes the latest flash was done with no special options in meta doctor and I activated by using this profile on the first startup
Nov 05 10:04:31 <rwhitby> I'll see whether that version is tied to the profile or tied to the device.  If it's tied to the device, then a new profile won't help.
Nov 05 10:04:56 <cryptk> rwhitby, I probably am meaning destinal
Nov 05 10:05:58 <sconix> I hope its tied to device since then its not that big problem since at some point my main device will change to pre 2
Nov 05 10:06:20 <sconix> but would not like to create a new profile again
Nov 05 10:06:33 <rwhitby> sconix: I have two other devices listed on the same profile, and they have 1.40.50 version numbers
Nov 05 10:06:49 <sconix> ok so I guess it pretty sure that its tied to device
Nov 05 10:07:28 <sconix> well of course if I want to sell this device and new profile wont fix that then its a problem
Nov 05 10:09:45 <cryptk> rwhitby, did you get a log that indicates it is the graphics libraries? or just an educated guess?
Nov 05 10:09:59 <cryptk> I really wish I had a spare device to work on that with...
Nov 05 10:10:39 <rwhitby> ok, that's a good sign, drPodder and BadKitty downloaded
Nov 05 10:12:59 <rwhitby> nope, still at 9.9.9 and not seeing paid app catalog
Nov 05 10:13:13 <rwhitby> {"message": "Request authentication failure", "errorCode": "PMT01002"}
Nov 05 10:13:57 <cryptk> rwhitby, have we ever been able to intercept what happens during the activation?
Nov 05 10:14:31 <cryptk> if not, there is a chance I may be able too... have my airaive run through my box during the activation and sniff it...
Nov 05 10:15:21 <rwhitby> I know that an SMS gets sent back to Palm
Nov 05 10:16:38 <cryptk> but you don't know the contents of it?
Nov 05 10:17:16 <cryptk> I am wondering if I can intercept that, and then if we can manually send one to set the version number
Nov 05 10:17:16 <rwhitby> yeah, IMEI and stuff
Nov 05 10:17:50 <rwhitby> I think that's a bit to far into the grey area
Nov 05 10:18:03 <cryptk> maybe
Nov 05 10:18:18 <cryptk> I am sure it is hashed or something anyway...
Nov 05 10:18:27 <cryptk> but it would be fun to take a peek at the data
Nov 05 10:18:44 <cryptk> even if we don't send one ourselves, just to take a look and see what they are gathering...
Nov 05 10:19:41 <rwhitby> you can turn on debug logging and see it
Nov 05 10:20:14 <cryptk> ahh, so just turn on debug and then re-run first use
Nov 05 10:20:48 <cryptk> wonder if just re-running first use would fix that... if the version number is sent on activation and on OS updates, it might
Nov 05 10:27:08 <rwhitby> already tried taht
Nov 05 15:18:14 <destinal-sleep> http://www.precentral.net/webos-internals-attempting-unpossible-webos-20-frankendoctor-older-devices
Nov 05 15:32:57 <destinal> not sure we wanted the front page just yet, since we don't have a solution that works and lots of people without the ability to troubleshoot it may try it.  OTOH, maybe we'll get a few more technical people interested as well
Nov 05 15:45:00 <destinal> rwhitby: I sent an inquiry on the open source packages for webos 2.0 to see what the expected timeframe is.  Technically the person that has the right to ask for them under GPL is someone who owns a Pre2, but I doubt that's a concern
Nov 05 15:56:44 <AZWebNut> hello everybody.  just had a quick question...
Nov 05 15:57:37 <AZWebNut> can anyone tell me the prereqs. for save/restore.  I have to install it via wosqi
Nov 05 16:00:29 <AZWebNut> I'm back - if anyone responded - I didn't see it...  can you repost?
Nov 05 16:00:40 <ashi_todd> no one did
Nov 05 16:00:54 <ashi_todd> hmmm i don't know the prereqs
Nov 05 16:01:40 <ashi_todd> destinal: lol, love the pic.  http://www.precentral.net/webos-internals-attempting-unpossible-webos-20-frankendoctor-older-devices
Nov 05 16:03:20 <AZWebNut> is it even possible to install everything that's needed for save/restore over wosqi
Nov 05 16:03:54 <destinal> ashi_todd: haha, that is good
Nov 05 16:04:20 <destinal> chuqui: morning
Nov 05 16:04:31 <chuqui> morning!
Nov 05 16:05:01 <destinal> AZWebNut: why not install preware and install save/restore from there?
Nov 05 16:05:47 <ashi_todd> Yeah, even if you only have wifi... or do you have no connection at all for some reason?
Nov 05 16:05:53 <destinal> ashi_todd: rod's "frankendoctor" name seems to have inspired precentrals' imaginations.. :)
Nov 05 16:06:14 <AZWebNut> because the user is 2 hours away and WILL screw his phone up...
Nov 05 16:06:16 <ashi_todd> destinal: I like it.
Nov 05 16:06:39 <ashi_todd> Oh, you're helping someone remotely?  Hmmm...
Nov 05 16:07:30 <destinal> AZWebNut: it's pretty hard to screw your phone up with just preware but check the feed for the prereqs
Nov 05 16:08:15 <destinal> AZWebNut: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/armv7/Packages
Nov 05 16:08:32 <AZWebNut> destinal: he screws up excel... daily....
Nov 05 16:09:10 <destinal> AZWebNut: search for it in that packages file and look for "Depends: "
Nov 05 16:09:55 <destinal> AZWebNut: and then anything those depnds have depends for :)
Nov 05 16:10:27 <destinal> uh, bye...?
Nov 05 16:10:55 <AZWebNut> thank you!
Nov 05 16:11:05 <destinal> AZWebNut: you're welcome
Nov 05 16:11:56 <AZWebNut> *hates when I get a phone call when on wIRC and I get disco'd
Nov 05 16:12:46 <oil> lol, yeah that sucks
Nov 05 16:12:46 <destinal> aha.  yeah, I have way more wifi  networks entered in my pre than I really need just to avoid that when possible
Nov 05 16:13:02 <destinal> shame CDMA can't do both at once.
Nov 05 16:15:14 <AZWebNut> unfortunately, I block irc - and for good reason given some of our users
Nov 05 16:15:32 <AZWebNut> only wi-fi right now is the company net
Nov 05 16:16:14 <destinal> I wonder if windsor, stingray, mantaray, or broadway (the new device codenames) will have wimax versions
Nov 05 16:17:14 <AZWebNut> I wonder if they'll do clear net (and if we'll get clear here, in PHX)
Nov 05 16:17:27 <ashi_todd> I ssh out to use IRC... and to run git clone on my server at home so I can tar up meta-doctor and scp it over.
Nov 05 16:17:51 <destinal> ashi_todd: Terminal app?
Nov 05 16:18:22 <destinal> ashi_todd: or from a PC not pre
Nov 05 16:18:47 <ashi_todd> either way, usually from a PC.
Nov 05 16:19:06 <ashi_todd> irssi running under screen doesn't look so great on my Pre Plus. :)
Nov 05 16:19:15 <AZWebNut> I block all but 80, pop, ssl, smtp (special port),  and a few others.  i'm the net admin everyone hates
Nov 05 16:19:46 * destinal is one of the devellopers of terminal, so probably party to blame if it doesn't look good :-/
Nov 05 16:20:30 <destinal> I always rush on to the next thing though, I'm not great as a maintainer
Nov 05 16:20:33 <ashi_todd> Well, I keep getting lines turning red, probably something to do with the colors... I could probably just turn colors off, but I'd rather use a pc or wirc.
Nov 05 16:21:22 <ashi_todd> Only thing that ever really bugs me is not being able to hold orange down and hit the 0 :) But I've gotten used to not trying to do it that way,
Nov 05 16:21:28 <ashi_todd> and I am very thankful for Terminal.
Nov 05 16:21:36 <AZWebNut> thank you gents...  for the record - prereqs are simple: zip & unzip
Nov 05 16:21:45 <ashi_todd> cool
Nov 05 16:22:03 <ashi_todd> (I meant after hitting other numbers)
Nov 05 16:22:13 <destinal> ashi_todd: wow, I wasn't aware of that bug, I'll look at it this weekend
Nov 05 16:22:20 <destinal> no idea how I could have missed that
Nov 05 16:24:53 <destinal> it's just the key repeat on meta+0 and I think I know why, the scan code is weird on the zero/@ key and one or two others
Nov 05 16:27:33 <destinal> I should probably redo terminal as a hybrid pdk/sdk app to get it into the app catalog.  I wonder if I could have gotten it into hot apps  if I'd been less lazy :)
Nov 05 16:30:18 <destinal> one more good reason to get 2.0 going early, I wonder if terminal works with a bluetooth keyboard
Nov 05 16:31:37 <oil> destinal: no hybrids were in hotapps
Nov 05 16:31:51 <oil> and, hybrids are jailed, idk if that matters for terminal or not
Nov 05 16:32:24 <destinal> oil: ah.  and making it "game" pdk would have been a one-off just  to get it into hot apps and not really the way I'd want to keep it
Nov 05 16:32:34 <oil> ah
Nov 05 16:32:56 <oil> hybrids > "game" pdk apps :)
Nov 05 16:33:01 <destinal> oil: jail is fine for a terminal app I think
Nov 05 16:33:25 <oil> wouldnt it also be inside the jail?
Nov 05 16:33:30 * oil really knows nothing about how it works, haha
Nov 05 16:34:03 <destinal> well I wonder if you could call login from a jail, and if so would it be a jailbreak? :)
Nov 05 16:34:18 <oil> lol
Nov 05 16:34:27 <destinal> chroot environments really aren't intended for security, though a lot of people seem to think they are
Nov 05 16:35:37 <ashi_todd> Yeah, I came in here when Terminal was pretty new to report that, but I don't remember who I talked to.
Nov 05 16:36:41 <destinal> oil: so yeah the jail may be a dealbreaker, if so may as well just make a version to do outbound ssh and put it in the catalog
Nov 05 16:36:56 <oil> yeah, people would eat that up
Nov 05 16:37:22 <oil> and idk if you saw, but some guy added more keys to it
Nov 05 16:37:45 <destinal> yeah, I just hit preware and looked at my updates and was like, hey, terminal?
Nov 05 16:37:52 <oil> haha
Nov 05 16:38:08 <oil> can finally type {
Nov 05 16:38:09 <oil> lol
Nov 05 16:38:11 <destinal> that's cool
Nov 05 16:38:28 <destinal> about damn time :)
Nov 05 16:38:34 <oil> though i still think little onscreen kb would have been nice for extra buttons
Nov 05 16:38:37 <oil> :)
Nov 05 16:39:02 <ashi_todd> or copy/paste :)
Nov 05 16:39:13 <oil> yeah
Nov 05 16:39:27 <ashi_todd> but hey, i like it a lot better than Terminus.
Nov 05 16:39:28 <oil> should do it shift-click like notes app
Nov 05 16:39:37 <destinal> ashi_todd: oh!  good idea, though you can always read and write the clipboard file
Nov 05 16:39:51 <ashi_todd> ooh, hadn't thought of that.
Nov 05 16:39:54 <destinal> integrated c/p would be way better
Nov 05 16:40:05 <ashi_todd> anyway, thanks for Terminal. :) work to do, bbl
Nov 05 16:40:13 <oil> haha
Nov 05 16:40:27 * oil was supposed to be at work an hour ago, but slept in tough
Nov 05 16:40:32 <destinal> ~seen mrvc
Nov 05 16:40:39 * oil should probably finish getting ready and head in
Nov 05 16:40:49 <infobot> mrvc <~vcato@c-67-191-184-192.hsd1.ga.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 150d 10h 32m 48s ago, saying: 'rwhitby: going to bed -- we can work on it more later'.
Nov 05 16:41:06 <oil> lol, and later never came...
Nov 05 16:42:11 <destinal> alas, I'm probably not the only one with "solved problem" disease :)
Nov 05 16:42:57 <destinal> mrvc deserves most of the credit, I just pushed and pushed to get the project going and then contributed bits here and there
Nov 05 16:51:25 <oil> ok, goin to work
Nov 05 16:51:25 <oil> bbl
Nov 05 17:35:39 <destinal> rwhitby:  Thank you for your email. We are in the process of preparing the source code packages and when ready they will be published on http://opensource.palm.com. Please watch the open source web site for availability.
Nov 05 17:36:18 <destinal> I'd hoped for a date, but no big deal I guess
Nov 05 17:38:16 <oilsworkn> so basically.. "reply to them with the template we always send them"?
Nov 05 17:39:28 <destinal> heh, yeah,obviously form response but hopefully they really are preparing the 2.0 packages.  that could mean tomorrow or months from now though I suppose
Nov 05 17:51:54 <dtzWill> just curious--aren't you obligated (legally) to make sources available as soon as you ship the binaries?
Nov 05 17:52:23 <dtzWill> oh well, at least they're coming at all :).
Nov 05 17:57:17 <SteveG> Simple qestion - where do I enter the upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart comandto enter developer mode?
Nov 05 17:57:36 <Mousey> anywhere really
Nov 05 17:57:49 <Mousey> just start typing it, the "find" dialog will appear, keep typing!
Nov 05 17:57:54 <oilsworkn> when in card view, or looking at the launcher
Nov 05 17:58:00 <oilsworkn> whenever you're not in an app
Nov 05 17:58:06 <Mousey> what oilsworkn said
Nov 05 17:58:20 <SteveG> Thanks.  I think I missed a "down" so it went to google search
Nov 05 17:58:44 <SteveG> That was quick!
Nov 05 17:58:49 * Mousey thinks . o O ( at least it's not pink unicorns (
Nov 05 17:59:00 <Mousey> () i mean
Nov 05 17:59:18 <SteveG> Or unicorn meat if you saw Rachel Maddow last night
Nov 05 17:59:40 * Mousey doesn't know who that is
Nov 05 17:59:50 * Mousey feels uncultured =(
Nov 05 18:00:19 <SteveG> MSNBC news show host
Nov 05 18:01:23 <Mousey> ah
Nov 05 18:01:54 <oilsworkn> dont feel bad mousey, i didn't know who it was either
Nov 05 18:02:08 * halfhalo slaps oil with an iphone
Nov 05 18:02:20 <Mousey> that was low!
Nov 05 18:02:32 <oilsworkn> and the iphone shatters into a bajillion pieces?
Nov 05 18:02:52 <halfhalo> nope, you do
Nov 05 18:03:02 <oilsworkn> lies, im still in one piece
Nov 05 18:15:47 <oilsworkn> hey egaudet_work
Nov 05 18:15:56 <egaudet_work> sup oilsworkn
Nov 05 18:16:11 <oilsworkn> nm, just work
Nov 05 18:16:22 <oilsworkn> haha
Nov 05 18:17:03 <oilsworkn> wishing normal web development was more like webos
Nov 05 18:17:06 <destinal> dtzWill: the legal obligation in GPL is really only to mail you a CD on request within a reasonable time of request
Nov 05 18:18:05 <destinal> dtzWill: but I think simultaneous release is better from a respect for the community perspective if it's practical
Nov 05 18:21:43 <destinal> oh, hey, I made pc front page  http://www.precentral.net/new-webos-device-codenames-discovered-webos-20-doctor
Nov 05 18:24:07 * oilsworkn claps
Nov 05 18:24:35 <destinal> tempted to put "hi, mom"  in the comments.  I do wonder what the new devices are though
Nov 05 18:26:10 <oilsworkn> tablet!
Nov 05 18:26:19 <summatusmentis> I wants it
Nov 05 18:26:42 <destinal> broadway is 320x400 so probably not tablet  (http://www.webosroundup.com/2010/10/webos-device-broadway-found-in-app-logs/)
Nov 05 18:26:52 <destinal> pixi2 I guess
Nov 05 18:26:53 <oilsworkn> i really, really, really hope its not just "big pre"
Nov 05 18:27:25 <oilsworkn> though, it probably will be
Nov 05 18:27:37 <summatusmentis> which? the tablet?
Nov 05 18:27:51 <summatusmentis> or the new devices?
Nov 05 18:27:57 <oilsworkn> teh tablet
Nov 05 18:28:15 <summatusmentis> I'm really skeptical they'd put a hardware keyboard on it
Nov 05 18:28:23 <oilsworkn> i dont mean like that, lol
Nov 05 18:28:35 <summatusmentis> heh, oh
Nov 05 18:28:38 <oilsworkn> i mean, not changing the interface at all to take advantage of the larger screen
Nov 05 18:28:39 <summatusmentis> care to clarify then?
Nov 05 18:28:41 <summatusmentis> oh
Nov 05 18:28:54 <summatusmentis> I'm not sure the interface needs much changing
Nov 05 18:29:23 <sugardave_> windsor....isn't that a castle?
Nov 05 18:29:39 <summatusmentis> indeed
Nov 05 18:29:56 <oilsworkn> so says wikipedia
Nov 05 18:30:01 <oilsworkn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Castle
Nov 05 18:31:39 <egaudet_work> so frankendoctor get any further last night?
Nov 05 18:34:12 <oilsworkn> last i heard they needed kernel stuff to move forward?
Nov 05 18:34:17 <destinal> egaudet_work: nothing past webos booting and lunasysmgr crashing
Nov 05 18:34:17 <sugardave_> windsor, pre 2 plus, or pre supreme?
Nov 05 18:34:43 <sugardave_> suPreme
Nov 05 18:34:47 <summatusmentis> was there a different code name for pre+?
Nov 05 18:34:51 <oilsworkn> pre++
Nov 05 18:35:07 <sugardave_> summatusmentis: I'm not sure
Nov 05 18:35:12 <chrisa> pre+ was castle+ internally
Nov 05 18:35:21 <sugardave_> ah
Nov 05 18:35:23 <egaudet_work> destinal: do we believe it has to do with GPU driver?
Nov 05 18:35:41 <summatusmentis> so it's unlikely windsor would be pre2+
Nov 05 18:36:13 <chrisa> windsor is not a product
Nov 05 18:36:37 <sugardave_> it's a state of mind?
Nov 05 18:37:02 <destinal> sugardave_: that would tend to indicate an internal development platform
Nov 05 18:37:12 <destinal> like, what was it, hendrix back in the day?
Nov 05 18:37:31 * sugardave_ tries hard to remember.
Nov 05 18:37:34 * sugardave_ fails.
Nov 05 18:37:52 <chrisa> It's more complicated than that, but suffice it to say it's not something you'll ever see
Nov 05 18:38:09 <sugardave_> CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!
Nov 05 18:38:24 <summatusmentis> hah
Nov 05 18:38:28 <chrisa> You know what I mean
Nov 05 18:38:32 <sugardave_> :D
Nov 05 18:38:55 <destinal> chrisa: there was hendrix and one other codename that was used internally back in the day, I think it was speculated that one was a non-phone pda /media device and the other was a centro or something
Nov 05 18:39:07 <destinal> think geist mentioned the latter
Nov 05 18:39:14 <chrisa> zepfloyd?
Nov 05 18:39:26 <destinal> right, that's the one
Nov 05 18:40:14 <destinal> so hendrix was the centro and zepfloyd the non-phone that never saw the light of day, or the other way around?
Nov 05 18:40:41 <summatusmentis> man, if i could've put webos on my centro, that would've been neat
Nov 05 18:41:33 <sugardave_> I never had a Centro my first Palm phone was a Treo 755p (the last of the Palm OS)
Nov 05 18:41:59 <destinal> summatusmentis: I think it was used as an internal prototype before the first castle was built
Nov 05 18:42:01 <sugardave_> I still have it, too, because it beats the hell out of the Pre as a paperless geocaching platform
Nov 05 18:42:20 <chrisa> I think centro was the last palm OS device actually, but I can't remember when the last non-winmo treo came out
Nov 05 18:42:21 <summatusmentis> destinal: I'm sure, mostly just idle curiosity
Nov 05 18:42:34 <chrisa> destinal: correct
Nov 05 18:42:37 <summatusmentis> centro was later than the last palos treo
Nov 05 18:42:41 <summatusmentis> palmos*
Nov 05 18:42:49 <sugardave_> chrisa: I got the 755p, 3 years ago, I believe
Nov 05 18:42:57 <sugardave_> orly?
Nov 05 18:42:59 <chrisa> yeah, centro came after that and had palmos
Nov 05 18:43:09 <summatusmentis> centro was my first smartphone
Nov 05 18:43:45 <sugardave_> maybe I meant the last Treo with PalmOS :D
Nov 05 18:44:09 <summatusmentis> centro was also the reason I seriously considered the pixi
Nov 05 18:44:39 <en0x> pixi is nice... with webos 2.0 it will rock!
Nov 05 18:44:47 <en0x> my pre is dying slow death :(
Nov 05 18:44:58 <summatusmentis> I like the screen size
Nov 05 18:45:03 <chrisa> pixi 2.0 is something I am curious about
Nov 05 18:45:05 <summatusmentis> on the pre
Nov 05 18:45:12 <sugardave_> mine is still kicking...it's going to be interesting to see how many who go to devday ar estill rocking the pearl
Nov 05 18:45:16 <chrisa> Take a look at 2.0's idle memory footprint compared to 1.4.5
Nov 05 18:45:26 <chrisa> Then remember how much pixi already swaps
Nov 05 18:45:48 <destinal> chrisa: looks like signs point to broadway = pixi2
Nov 05 18:46:00 <chrisa> I worked on broadway from the start
Nov 05 18:46:51 <destinal> chrisa: ah, cool.  you worked on pixie too, right?
Nov 05 18:47:07 <chrisa> yes, but that doesn't mean they're the same ;)
Nov 05 18:47:27 <chrisa> I also worked on pre, pre+ and pre2
Nov 05 18:48:00 <destinal> chrisa: :)  yeah.  all we have to go on is the resolution's the same as pixi and the A6 is interesting...
Nov 05 18:49:38 <destinal> chrisa: any idea if the dreams of syncing up with kernel upstream will ever happen?
Nov 05 18:50:36 <chrisa> Not really sure. Qualcomm has been pushing directly to King for a while, so I think the main obstacle is getting everyone on the same kernel revision
Nov 05 18:50:47 <chrisa> Some of us spent time trying to do that, but current work always trumps technical debt
Nov 05 18:51:23 <destinal> chrisa: yeah, I figure that it adds a bunch of work maintaining a seperate tree and backporting things though
Nov 05 18:51:33 <chrisa> Hm, somewhat
Nov 05 18:51:44 <chrisa> A lot of the time when it comes to CVEs and such someone else has already backported it for you
Nov 05 18:58:25 <destinal> lol, someone on the precentral comments pointed out that an A6 envelope is: 4 3/4" x 6 1/2" which was an odd shape for the new devices  :)
Nov 05 18:58:49 <oilsworkn> lol
Nov 05 18:58:54 <chrisa> A6 is just a naming convention. It's not an arm core
Nov 05 18:58:55 <chrisa> fwiw
Nov 05 18:59:16 <en0x> a6 is a paper size too
Nov 05 18:59:20 <en0x> [;
Nov 05 18:59:51 <chrisa> In college my capstone group project's team was called a4
Nov 05 19:00:00 <chrisa> because we had no ideas and we were writing it on a piece of paper
Nov 05 19:00:07 <chrisa> er, writing ideas
Nov 05 19:01:14 <en0x> so a6 can be anything :P
Nov 05 19:02:16 <sugardave_> it's a car!
Nov 05 19:02:26 <sugardave_> a webOS powered Audi
Nov 05 19:02:30 <sugardave_> fucking brilliant!
Nov 05 19:02:55 <destinal> sugardave_: great, most of the new devices are part of a car.
Nov 05 19:03:01 <destinal> :P
Nov 05 19:03:22 <en0x> so it's basicaly like finding nemo
Nov 05 19:03:29 <oilsworkn> its got the "oh shit we're going to die" gesture, where it automatically applies the breaks if the passenger freaks out too much
Nov 05 19:03:49 <en0x> heh
Nov 05 19:04:04 <egaudet_work> devices that plug in together to form a tablet
Nov 05 19:04:06 <en0x> is it only me or the web browser in webos 1.4.5 has huge memory leaks?
Nov 05 19:04:29 <en0x> when i got to a website with some photos and javascript it slows down my pre and i cant do shit except close the card
Nov 05 19:04:37 <en0x> and i have to wait for that for like a minute
Nov 05 19:06:42 <destinal> chrisa: I bet you guys get a kick out of off the wall things we do like shoehorning webos 2.0 from roadrunner onto castle
Nov 05 19:06:55 <sugardave_> oilsworkn: yeah, that's a "meta-squeeze" on the oh shit handle AND a double-foot stomp on the floorboard
Nov 05 19:07:24 <oilsworkn> lol
Nov 05 19:07:31 <summatusmentis> I appreciate that you also refer to it as the oh shit handle
Nov 05 19:07:31 <oilsworkn> my dad used to do that when i was learning to drive
Nov 05 19:07:43 <oilsworkn> would act like there was a instructor break pedal and smash his foot against the floor
Nov 05 19:08:04 <summatusmentis> I find myself doing that when my friends who are crappy drivers are driving
Nov 05 19:08:09 <oilsworkn> lol
Nov 05 19:08:25 <summatusmentis> usually it's just smashing my foot into the floor
Nov 05 19:08:27 <oilsworkn> when im with friends who are crappy drivers, i tend not to pay attention
Nov 05 19:08:38 <oilsworkn> you're less likely to get seriously injured if you're not tensing up
Nov 05 19:08:44 <sugardave_> that is true
Nov 05 19:08:54 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: I live 3 hours from the nearest airport, and I've gotten rides to the cities with someone who drives 90 mi/hr
Nov 05 19:09:10 <destinal> oilsworkn: yeah but if you're watching you acn always throw yourself out the passenger door
Nov 05 19:09:15 <sugardave_> the only time I ever got hit hard enough by another car to total mine, I was completely unaware until it happened and suffered no injuries
Nov 05 19:09:19 <en0x> summatusmentis: 90mph is slow :S
Nov 05 19:09:34 <summatusmentis> en0x: not when they also ride people's tails
Nov 05 19:09:39 <summatusmentis> :(
Nov 05 19:09:43 <en0x> i do that
Nov 05 19:09:43 <en0x> d
Nov 05 19:09:44 <en0x> ;d
Nov 05 19:09:56 <oilsworkn> destinal: no, cause im wearing my seatbelt, hard to hurl yourself out when you got a strap holding you in
Nov 05 19:10:01 * halfhalo is a cwazy driver
Nov 05 19:10:17 * sugardave_ takes notes.  "This is the list of people to not ask for rides."
Nov 05 19:10:37 <en0x> i dont wear a seatbelt... it pisses me off
Nov 05 19:10:37 * oilsworkn took out two telephone poles during lunch in highschool
Nov 05 19:10:50 <oilsworkn> in a 73 chevy truck
Nov 05 19:10:56 * halfhalo has never hit anything or been hit (save for one time)
Nov 05 19:11:01 <oilsworkn> lap-belts only, i bet the steering wheel like 6 inches with my chest
Nov 05 19:11:06 <destinal> ooh, this is actually a good guess  from the precentral comments:  A6 = 6-axis geomagnetic module?
Nov 05 19:11:18 <oilsworkn> awesome circular steering-wheel shaped bruise on my chest for months
Nov 05 19:11:19 <en0x> i've been hit twice halfhalo
Nov 05 19:11:41 <halfhalo> I was hit once by a high ricer driver
Nov 05 19:11:57 <halfhalo> they decided to try and merge into the side of my volvo
Nov 05 19:11:58 <en0x> i was hit twice by grandmas :(
Nov 05 19:12:18 <halfhalo> lol
Nov 05 19:12:31 <en0x> on traffic light eh... long story
Nov 05 19:12:37 <halfhalo> My car is all dinged up though, and has a big gash in the passenger side mirror from my mom driving it
Nov 05 19:13:15 <en0x> u got volvo
Nov 05 19:13:23 <en0x> i hate volvo drivers in MA.... they blows
Nov 05 19:13:35 <halfhalo> used to, and I was not a typical volvo driver :p
Nov 05 19:13:51 <halfhalo> I used every ounce of power that 2.5L engine could deliver
Nov 05 19:14:00 <en0x> ;]
Nov 05 19:14:13 <halfhalo> Now I drive an SUV
Nov 05 19:14:21 <halfhalo> Which means no slowing for speedbumps
Nov 05 19:14:41 <en0x> buehehe
Nov 05 19:14:53 <en0x> i should get a hummer for that!
Nov 05 19:15:06 <destinal> then again a magnetometer would be useless with a touchstone generally
Nov 05 19:15:35 <en0x> destinal: stop disturbing when grown-ups are talking
Nov 05 19:15:42 * en0x hides
Nov 05 19:15:44 <destinal> en0x: lmao
Nov 05 19:16:07 <halfhalo> I do like to drive the G25 sedan though...
Nov 05 19:16:29 <ka6sox> ^^^leadfoot
Nov 05 19:16:31 <halfhalo> 3 more gears than my suv, another 1.5k till redline, but .5L less in the engine
Nov 05 19:17:30 <halfhalo> It is a well established fact I have a leadfoot.  Just ask swiss when he gets online.
Nov 05 19:17:39 <SteveG> I'm a novice (sorry!) but I am trying to install Web OS Quick Install v 3.14 and it says I have to download Web OS Doctor.  Jason Robitale's instruction page says I SHOULD NOT run OS Doctor or "you may inadvertently erase your device to WebOS factory settings"
Nov 05 19:18:12 <SteveG> Do I just download Web OS Doctor and let it sit in the same folder as Web Install 3.14?
Nov 05 19:18:18 <en0x> webos quickinstall requires webos doctor
Nov 05 19:18:28 <en0x> just let it download it... it won't run
Nov 05 19:18:31 <sugardave_> destinal: but what about when it's not docked on a touchstone? :D
Nov 05 19:20:12 <SteveG> Thanks...
Nov 05 19:20:58 * halfhalo has his 22 dollar AA usb charger thingie!
Nov 05 19:20:59 <destinal> sugardave_: the problem is I think strong magnets have a tendancy to damage magnetometers so they don't read accurately, people with G1 phones that used magnets near them said it eventually rendered the sensor inaccurate
Nov 05 19:21:03 <halfhalo> 2*
Nov 05 19:21:13 <sugardave_> destinal: ah, I see
Nov 05 19:21:29 <destinal> sugardave_: not sure if it magnetizes something in the sensor or what
Nov 05 19:23:00 <destinal> also does the touchstone back have magnets in it or just metal bits for the ts magnet to pull?
Nov 05 19:27:52 <web05hitz>  
Nov 05 19:31:28 <sugardave_> destinal: I'm not sure, I think someone on p|c said no magnets in the back
Nov 05 19:34:53 <tmzt> chrisa: qualcomm likes to backport CVE's back in, or HTC or somebody :)
Nov 05 20:36:18 <rwhitby> morning
Nov 05 20:37:22 <ka6sox-work> rwhitby, does our autobuilder rm_work after builds?
Nov 05 20:38:54 <rwhitby> destinal: ping
Nov 05 20:40:47 <rwhitby> dtzWill: regarding GPL and Palm, they provide a written offer in the rootfs, so fully comply with their obligations.  As long as they respond to such requests within a reasonable timeframe (which courts would expect to be weeks, not hours like we expect), then they are fine,
Nov 05 20:43:40 <ashi_todd> Morning rwhitby.
Nov 05 20:45:55 <rwhitby> ka6sox-work: it does not
Nov 05 20:46:07 <rwhitby> g'day ashi_todd - anyone make any progress overnight?
Nov 05 20:46:09 <ka6sox-work> kk
Nov 05 20:46:38 <ashi_todd> I am not aware of any. :)
Nov 05 20:48:52 <egaudet_work> I made pretend progress in my mind
Nov 05 20:49:06 <ashi_todd> heh
Nov 05 20:49:06 <halfhalo> thats the best kind...
Nov 05 20:49:13 <Gollyzila> I'm using F105 Kernel overclocked to 800 MHz with compcache off, yet Govnah shows that I currently have 58 swap. Shouldn't that swap be 0? Also, how do I clear the swap w/o rebooting?
Nov 05 20:52:20 <Gollyzila> Did I miss anything while I was gone?
Nov 05 20:52:21 <rwhitby> egaudet_work: any results
Nov 05 20:52:54 <egaudet_work> my pretend pre morphed into a pretend pre2 and things suddenly worked
Nov 05 20:53:02 <ashi_todd> nice.
Nov 05 20:53:06 <ashi_todd> Gollyzila: no.
Nov 05 20:53:11 <rwhitby> Gollyzila: swap is not just compcache.  You can clear it by disabling swap at the command line, but there is no real reason why you would want to.
Nov 05 20:54:40 <Gollyzila> After time the swap builds up and slows down the phone. Wouldn't that be a valid reason, or does swap clear itself up after time?
Nov 05 20:56:54 <egaudet_work> memleak
Nov 05 20:57:38 <Gollyzila> I'm experiencing a memleak?
Nov 05 21:05:03 <PuffTheMagic> destinal, rwhitby get anywhere witht eh doctor?
Nov 05 21:07:02 <rwhitby> nothing new since the graphics libraries
Nov 05 21:07:57 <PuffTheMagic> graphics libs?
Nov 05 21:08:15 <egaudet_work> Gollyzila: if you aren't running anything and the device is slowing down and actively swapping then there must be a memleak somewhere
Nov 05 21:08:20 <PuffTheMagic> i see on the frankendoctor post you got luna segfaulting
Nov 05 21:08:56 <egaudet_work> yeah PuffTheMagic go fix it
Nov 05 21:09:38 <PuffTheMagic> ya will have to try out these steps
Nov 05 21:09:55 <Gollyzila> egaudet_work: would having notifications present make swapping occur?
Nov 05 21:12:57 <chrisa> destinal: I don't work there, so the magic of watching you guys is a bit lost on me
Nov 05 21:16:16 <rwhitby> chrisa: current status seems to be that the change in toolchain and possibly kernel patches causes LunaSysMgr to segfault after failing to load libraries related to the SGX hw accel graphics in 2.o
Nov 05 21:18:48 <AStice> I'm not really familiar with the licenses, but since 2.0 is in customers hands, shouldn't we be able to get a copy of the kernel source from somewhere? Or do they have a timeframe where they can hang on to that stuff?
Nov 05 21:19:49 <ka6sox-work> its been requested.
Nov 05 21:19:50 <ka6sox-work> takes time.
Nov 05 21:21:40 <AStice> Makes sense. I'm assuming that the os won't run properly, if at all, without the hw accelerated graphics libraries, so there'd be no way to bypass them. How about porting them? Do we know which ones they are?
Nov 05 21:26:49 <egaudet_work> commute
Nov 05 21:28:13 <PuffTheMagic> hmnn
Nov 05 21:28:20 <PuffTheMagic> metadoctor is not working for me
Nov 05 21:29:29 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby, i know the instructions for ubuntu... and yes i am doing this on gentoo...
Nov 05 21:29:36 <PuffTheMagic> but its failing on the md5sum stage
Nov 05 21:29:49 <PuffTheMagic> looks like its not cd'ing into some dir
Nov 05 21:30:08 <PuffTheMagic> nm
Nov 05 21:30:13 <PuffTheMagic> i wasnt following part of the directions
Nov 05 21:30:50 <rwhitby> AStice: those are the areas of investigation now
Nov 05 21:33:21 <dtzWill> rwhitby: ah, okay. thanks. good to know, for sure :D.
Nov 05 21:44:29 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby, what am i supposed to do after copying those libs
Nov 05 21:44:34 <PuffTheMagic> the directions just end
Nov 05 21:45:59 <rwhitby> reboot
Nov 05 21:46:33 <rwhitby> or do a funky manual and chroot/pivot_root if you're chuck norris
Nov 05 21:46:47 <PuffTheMagic> i rebooted and it just went to my old 1.4.5
Nov 05 21:49:37 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Nov 05 21:49:49 <PuffTheMagic> the directions leave out the obvious step of running the doctor ;)
Nov 05 21:51:41 <ashi_todd> there is the java -jar command...
Nov 05 21:52:57 <PuffTheMagic> ya
Nov 05 21:53:05 <PuffTheMagic> idk what i was thinking
Nov 05 21:53:36 <PuffTheMagic> i know rod said there was a way to doctor using cli args so i figured that was rolled up into the procedures listed
Nov 05 21:53:57 <ashi_todd> ahh. :)
Nov 05 21:55:13 <rwhitby> for the webOS 2.0 doctor there is, yes.
Nov 05 21:55:25 <rwhitby> you add --auto to the java -jar file commands
Nov 05 21:55:30 * rwhitby bbl
Nov 05 22:16:06 <halfhalo> ooohh, fancy, linux
Nov 05 22:25:16 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby, how are u getting term access to the frankendoctored pre?
Nov 05 22:26:42 <rwhitby> normal novaterm
Nov 05 22:27:18 <PuffTheMagic> it does not see my device
Nov 05 22:27:21 <rwhitby> ah, if you haven't used MetaDoctor before, you may have neglected to enable developer access
Nov 05 22:27:36 <rwhitby> check the documentation at the top of the Makefile
Nov 05 22:27:54 <PuffTheMagic> i have used it before
Nov 05 22:28:08 <PuffTheMagic> i just didnt inspect all franken doctor instructions
Nov 05 22:28:18 <PuffTheMagic> i would have thought that would have been selected
Nov 05 22:33:07 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby, i think you should mod that post and add that as default until the process works
Nov 05 22:33:48 <linuxjacques> have we ever found a downside to having devel mode enabled?
Nov 05 22:33:55 <linuxjacques> I leve mine like that all the time
Nov 05 22:34:02 <linuxjacques> s/leve/leave/
Nov 05 22:34:02 <infobot> linuxjacques meant: I leave mine like that all the time
Nov 05 22:38:08 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: mine is enabled before flashing, and never changes
Nov 05 22:39:13 <linuxjacques> I have had mine on devel mode and usbnet for almost a year now with no ill effects
Nov 05 22:39:53 <linuxjacques> soon my year will be up and I will get a device credit again from sprint. silly sprint! get the pre2!
Nov 05 23:18:37 * ashi_todd heads home
Nov 05 23:25:13 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: the md5sum problem is due to your bad "find" binary
Nov 05 23:25:53 <destinal> it's finding symlinks when it should not because it's told to find -type f
Nov 05 23:26:37 <destinal> I grabbed the latest stable findutils from gnu.org, ./configure && make and that version did the right thing on your gentoo box
Nov 05 23:44:17 <daltonj82> hey everyone I have a question... like on android they have custom roms. does webos have custom roms or is it just custom kernals and patches??
Nov 05 23:46:00 <Gollyzila> It has been a couple hours, I've had no apps open during that time, but the swap on my phone has been at a constant 44.
Nov 05 23:48:09 <Gollyzila> daltonj82: I believe the Meta-doctor can preload Preware and other services on a phone.
Nov 05 23:49:03 <Gollyzila> daltonj82: that's as close to custom ROMs as far as I know.
Nov 05 23:50:38 <rwhitby> daltonj82: since custom ROMS are illegal if they include proprietary webOS files, WebOS Internals devised a way for end-users to make finer granularity modifications to their own devices without needing to illegal redistribute Palm files.
Nov 05 23:51:24 <daltonj82> Gollvzilla. I have preware on mine. and a custom kernal for the overclocking but I have a android phone and the custom roms are endless ok sounds good though
Nov 05 23:53:05 <rwhitby> daltonj82: the endless custom ROMS are just combinations of features.  each of the features is available in Preware and you can combine them the way you want, not the way that someone else has chosen for you
Nov 05 23:54:58 <daltonj82> rwhitbv: is there something out there that's will add widgets to my desktop or add more icons on the bottom of the screen?
Nov 05 23:55:34 <rwhitby> no, those things cannot be done in webOS at this time
Nov 05 23:56:54 <PuffTheMagic> destinal, no its not due to my non "bad" find util
Nov 05 23:57:13 <PuffTheMagic> it was because of all the absolute paths in rwhitby posts
Nov 05 23:57:23 <PuffTheMagic> and me working our of your home dir
Nov 05 23:57:29 <PuffTheMagic> instead of /srv/..
Nov 06 00:00:20 <destinal-pre> daltonj82: technically custom rom distribution breaks copyright laws
Nov 06 00:01:03 <Gollyzila> After all cards are tossed away, can Swap automatically decrease to 0?
Nov 06 00:01:09 <destinal-pre> daltonj82: but you can  always make your own custom doctor with metadoctor for your own use
Nov 06 00:03:18 <destinal-pre> Gollyzila: swap depends on what's going on in the system.  if you've got plenty of ram and not much loaded it could drop to zero used but there are good reasons for it not to in many circumstances
Nov 06 00:03:32 <daltonj82> ok..  one more question. if linux is open source whyand how is it breaking any laws. and I heard palm likes the developers and patches..
Nov 06 00:04:41 <destinal-pre> daltonj82: there's a lot more than linux in webos that's covered by copyright and a lot of it's not open / free software
Nov 06 00:04:55 <destinal-pre> same with android really
Nov 06 00:05:56 <PuffTheMagic> Gollyzila, set your swappyness varriable to 0
Nov 06 00:07:15 <destinal-pre> daltonj82: what are the advantages of a custom installer that you are looking for?
Nov 06 00:11:02 <rwhitby> daltonj82: for example, if your Android custom rom includes a Gmail app, then it is illegal.
Nov 06 00:11:05 <daltonj82> I miss the weather as a widget... mosly
Nov 06 00:11:32 <rwhitby> daltonj82: there are webOS apps in the app catalog that put the weather on your background.
Nov 06 00:12:02 <PuffTheMagic> they are garbage though
Nov 06 00:12:23 <PuffTheMagic> generating a wallpaper on the fly and swapping it constantly.... eww
Nov 06 00:12:31 <Gollyzila> PuffTheMagic: I don't have compcache enabled in Govnah.
Nov 06 00:12:33 <rwhitby> Gollyzila: there is no reason for swap to go to zero if you close all cards.  The data in swap may be from any other part of the system, not just webOS apps.
Nov 06 00:12:39 <PuffTheMagic> Gollyzila, so?
Nov 06 00:12:58 <rwhitby> Gollyzila: PuffTheMagic is referring to a setting which is not in Govnah.
Nov 06 00:13:18 <PuffTheMagic> /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
Nov 06 00:13:51 <Gollyzila> Thanks everyone for the responses so far. The thing is, if the swap gets close 100, my  Pre bogs down. After all cards are closed the swap stays that high.
Nov 06 00:15:18 <rwhitby> yes, and as the data that is in swap is used again, it will be moved back out of swap if there is memory availabe
Nov 06 00:15:42 <rwhitby> if it's not being used, then the 100MB of data in swap does not slow anything down.
Nov 06 00:15:49 <PuffTheMagic> To tune, simply echo a value from 0 to 100 onto /proc/sys/vm/swappiness. The higher a number set here, the more the system will swap.
Nov 06 00:16:04 <PuffTheMagic> default is 60
Nov 06 00:17:15 <Gollyzila> rwhitby: thanks. It's making more sense now.
Nov 06 00:17:33 <Gollyzila> PuffTheMagic: I can use Internalz to change it?
Nov 06 00:17:57 <destinal-pre> Gollyzila: no need for it to come out of swap until it's needed
Nov 06 00:18:45 <PuffTheMagic> Gollyzila, i've never used internalz so i have nfc
Nov 06 00:18:57 <destinal-pre> it's just the contention of being out of memory and swaping in and out that makes things slow
Nov 06 00:18:57 <PuffTheMagic> i would just novaterm in and try it
Nov 06 00:19:24 <PuffTheMagic> swapping on a embedded device with slow hd is not good in my mind
Nov 06 00:19:30 <PuffTheMagic> i would just disable swap all together LD
Nov 06 00:19:32 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Nov 06 00:19:51 <PuffTheMagic> s/hd/flash/
Nov 06 00:21:04 <Gollyzila> PuffTheMagic: what would the end result of doing would be?
Nov 06 00:21:17 <rwhitby> not a good option for Sprint Pre users
Nov 06 00:21:31 <halfhalo> psh, like they matter
Nov 06 00:21:52 <PuffTheMagic> Gollyzila, u could run luna with no apps really well
Nov 06 00:24:19 <Gollyzila> PuffTheMagic: practically making my smartphone "dumb"
Nov 06 00:24:59 <Gollyzila> halfhalo: just because we have half RAM doesn't mean we don't have feelings.
Nov 06 00:25:07 <jacques> yeah :-|
Nov 06 00:25:45 <PuffTheMagic> someone should apply reiser4 or btrfs to UK
Nov 06 00:25:53 <PuffTheMagic> and reformat their / with compression enabled
Nov 06 00:41:34 <daltonj82> think sprint is gonna f*ck its customers again with the new pre?
Nov 06 00:45:47 <PuffTheMagic> again?
Nov 06 00:46:16 <PuffTheMagic> Palm dropped on the Pre launch
Nov 06 00:46:22 <PuffTheMagic> no/terrible advertising
Nov 06 00:46:29 <PuffTheMagic> sprint is partially to blame too
Nov 06 00:46:46 <PuffTheMagic> but mostly palm's fault
Nov 06 00:47:01 <PuffTheMagic> s/dropped/dropped the ball/
Nov 06 00:47:28 <PuffTheMagic> didnt really see any advertisement till verizon got Pre+'s
Nov 06 00:47:35 <PuffTheMagic> and it was VZW that did the advertisement
Nov 06 00:47:40 <oil> PuffTheMagic: the borg queen commercials
Nov 06 00:48:00 <daltonj82> because sprint got the pre verizon got he pre plus.. and the new pre 2 supposable is just for verizon
Nov 06 00:48:01 <PuffTheMagic> oil, those aired once a month
Nov 06 00:48:17 <oil> PuffTheMagic: had thoughts on another plugin
Nov 06 00:48:56 <oil> to do bluetooth pre-to-pre gaming for javascript games
Nov 06 00:49:31 <oil> or some other pre-to-pre connection
Nov 06 00:49:37 <daltonj82> I been a fauthful palm user. I love webOS just some stuff I don't like. I read about the new 2.0 it would b nice if the pre wil get it.
Nov 06 00:49:59 <daltonj82> oil that would bbad ass lol
Nov 06 00:50:02 * oil even has a javascript game which could use it
Nov 06 00:50:40 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, sure, im with ya there, but palm's launch of pre left a bad taste in sprints mouth im sure, i cant see sprint wanting to get back in bed with them that soon
Nov 06 00:51:05 <PuffTheMagic> oil, im not getting near palms halfbaked bt stack
Nov 06 00:51:17 <PuffTheMagic> if 2.0 has upstream bluez support maybe
Nov 06 00:51:38 <oil> maybe over wifi or something then
Nov 06 00:51:47 <PuffTheMagic> oil, i am making clicker app for my pre using wifi
Nov 06 00:51:59 <PuffTheMagic> so i can control presentations running on my computer
Nov 06 00:52:04 <PuffTheMagic> bt and ir suck
Nov 06 00:52:04 <daltonj82> what happened with the pre and sprint?
Nov 06 00:52:27 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, ?
Nov 06 00:52:32 <oil> PuffTheMagic: well if you feel like plugin-izing it, i would implement it into dot game
Nov 06 00:52:58 <PuffTheMagic> oil, that dont need a plugin
Nov 06 00:53:14 <palmguy> hi all
Nov 06 00:53:17 <PuffTheMagic> oil, u can already do web services with js
Nov 06 00:53:21 <palmguy> <- new to room
Nov 06 00:53:22 <PuffTheMagic> http communication
Nov 06 00:53:24 <halfhalo> good times...
Nov 06 00:53:27 <oil> true
Nov 06 00:53:30 <oil> forgot about node
Nov 06 00:53:30 <daltonj82> you said sprint might not want them
Nov 06 00:53:44 <oil> hi palmguy
Nov 06 00:53:45 <halfhalo> not even node, but a server side service
Nov 06 00:54:36 <palmguy> I have a palm pre plus that I modded out - then went on vacation before I finished everything...  now I forget which mods I loaded...  so I want to blank my palm and start over - tried it and all my programs came back AND the mods...
Nov 06 00:54:38 <palmguy> hey oil
Nov 06 00:54:39 <oil> halfhalo: want to do it without the need for a server
Nov 06 00:54:56 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, ya.... Palm: "hey sprint, by 10000000000 Pre's from us and you get exclusive access for 6months", Sprint: "sure sounds good"...... purchases made... Palm: "oh yeah, we arent going to advertise these phones at all"
Nov 06 00:55:06 <oil> palmguy: you want to use the webos doctor on your phone
Nov 06 00:55:08 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, Sprint prob has 100000000 Pre1's in stock
Nov 06 00:55:13 <PuffTheMagic> why would they order more?
Nov 06 00:55:18 <oil> and completely refresh it to stock
Nov 06 00:55:51 <oil> or emergence patch recovery or whatever its called
Nov 06 00:55:51 <daltonj82> true
Nov 06 00:55:52 <oil> in preware
Nov 06 00:55:53 <halfhalo> oil: node pretty much would need a server as well, with a few exceptions
Nov 06 00:55:55 <oil> will remove all your patches
Nov 06 00:56:08 <oil> if you installed them from normal places and not manually
Nov 06 00:56:24 <oil> but if you made manual custom changes, go with the doctor
Nov 06 00:56:29 <palmguy> yeah - it was weird that my mods stayed - but preware, govnor, internalz etc were all gone..
Nov 06 00:56:45 <oil> you just did one of the reset options from the menu?
Nov 06 00:56:52 <palmguy> yeah
Nov 06 00:56:53 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, Sprint usually likes to go with "mature" devices, they might order some down the road, but they are def not going in first round this time
Nov 06 00:57:00 <oil> yeah, run emergency patch recovery
Nov 06 00:57:35 <palmguy> is emergency patch recovery part of Web Doc or is it a completely diff prog?
Nov 06 00:57:48 <oil> you got your patches from preware?
Nov 06 00:58:24 <palmguy> oil: from a couple places..  and two were my own...  i know how to code  BARELY..
Nov 06 00:58:25 <daltonj82> that suxs but I understand sprint
Nov 06 00:58:38 <oil> well, if they were custom, you're option is the doctor
Nov 06 00:59:03 <oil> or that repair tool jason made, but ive never used it
Nov 06 00:59:11 <oil> or know the state of its effectiveness
Nov 06 01:00:20 <palmguy> gotchya..  o.k. last n00bish ?...  should i suck it up that some games do not work with the latest update for Web OS or should i revert to an older version to enjoy the games - and - should I simply forget about ever having the ability to use java based apps and games with my palm?
Nov 06 01:00:57 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, you could always go to another carrier if u really want a pre2.... and then pay 2x for the same data plans
Nov 06 01:00:58 <oil> what games dont work on what version?
Nov 06 01:01:34 <daltonj82> puffthemagic: fuk that lol
Nov 06 01:02:30 <palmguy> I have a Verizon (sounds of the angels singing from up in heaven) Palm Pre Plus - with latest software update...  cause that's what it resets to...  The racing game shit - i forget which games - there's like 10 really kikazz games that just don't work with the new update
Nov 06 01:02:46 <en0x> seems like fstab bug
Nov 06 01:02:47 <en0x> ;]
Nov 06 01:03:03 <oil> palmguy: run the webos doctor
Nov 06 01:03:11 <oil> to install 1.4.5
Nov 06 01:03:15 <daltonj82> I been with sprint for 10 years know
Nov 06 01:03:17 <palmguy> I'm connected via mobile wifi atm with my palm outside hanging from a flower pot to get 2-3 bars of 3g
Nov 06 01:03:25 <oil> en0x: doctor installs dont have fstab bug :)
Nov 06 01:03:40 <en0x> oil: right... but if he has preware installed he can install the patch
Nov 06 01:03:55 <palmguy> awesome awesome.....
Nov 06 01:03:59 <oil> right, but he has custom patches
Nov 06 01:04:03 <oil> that epr wont be able to fix
Nov 06 01:04:05 <halfhalo> ewww, custom
Nov 06 01:04:08 <oil> that he wants removed
Nov 06 01:04:17 <palmguy> preware is no longer installed - but all the patches remain
Nov 06 01:04:28 <bpadalino> whoops
Nov 06 01:04:32 <en0x> well then doctor
Nov 06 01:04:33 <en0x> ;D
Nov 06 01:04:44 <oil> he could run epr if he hadn't manually changed some files
Nov 06 01:05:09 <palmguy> so what about the ability to use java based apps & games in the future??  ie supremacy1914, frostwire, etc
Nov 06 01:05:47 <halfhalo> not gonna happen
Nov 06 01:05:50 <PuffTheMagic> oil, u could always use wirc for pre2pre gaming ;)
Nov 06 01:06:05 <oil> meh
Nov 06 01:06:19 <en0x> play netris ;)
Nov 06 01:06:34 <oil> my thought was two people in the same room
Nov 06 01:06:39 <oil> not over the internets
Nov 06 01:06:44 <oil> not needing chat
Nov 06 01:06:51 <PuffTheMagic> im not talking chat
Nov 06 01:06:59 <PuffTheMagic> if they are in the same room they would be on same wifi
Nov 06 01:07:01 <PuffTheMagic> use dcc
Nov 06 01:07:15 <PuffTheMagic> and send "game packets" not chat text
Nov 06 01:07:32 <oil> that sounds like a pain in the ass
Nov 06 01:07:37 * halfhalo knows node could work if the clients are on the same wifi network, but it cannot make a pre to pre connection on its own
Nov 06 01:07:39 <PuffTheMagic> what part?
Nov 06 01:07:49 <palmguy> Puff & oil - what games can you pre2pre with
Nov 06 01:07:56 <PuffTheMagic> nothing yet
Nov 06 01:08:03 <PuffTheMagic> but lots of came could
Nov 06 01:08:06 <PuffTheMagic> dot game
Nov 06 01:08:07 <PuffTheMagic> chess
Nov 06 01:08:09 <oil> PuffTheMagic: implementing using the wirc plugin in a simple game
Nov 06 01:08:10 <palmguy> i was gonna say - hadn't heard that
Nov 06 01:08:20 <oil> it needs like 900 callback functions and everything
Nov 06 01:08:27 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:08:33 <palmguy> i'm just pissed that I can't use bluetooth to control my house...
Nov 06 01:08:36 <PuffTheMagic> oil, naa wirc launch args
Nov 06 01:08:41 <PuffTheMagic> start it up in a headless way
Nov 06 01:08:51 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:09:01 <PuffTheMagic> i could make minimal hooks for dcc
Nov 06 01:09:55 * oil wouldnt want it to depend on wirc
Nov 06 01:10:23 <PuffTheMagic> too bad
Nov 06 01:10:47 <PuffTheMagic> gotta make more reasons for people to need/want wirc
Nov 06 01:10:56 <oil> no we dont
Nov 06 01:11:25 <daltonj82> wirc is the shot :-)
Nov 06 01:11:32 <daltonj82> shit I ment
Nov 06 01:11:44 <oil> its already a bad ass irc client
Nov 06 01:11:59 <oil> it doesnt need more reasons to get it
Nov 06 01:12:25 <PuffTheMagic> sure there are
Nov 06 01:12:26 <palmguy> so what are some real world applications of Wirc and WebOS
Nov 06 01:12:41 <PuffTheMagic> else halfhalo will make an irc client that obsoletes wirc
Nov 06 01:12:43 <oil> using it to use irc
Nov 06 01:12:47 <halfhalo> dundunDUN
Nov 06 01:12:51 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:13:01 <PuffTheMagic> oil, u know its on his todo list
Nov 06 01:13:13 <oil> halfhalo is far too lazy
Nov 06 01:13:17 <halfhalo> It would be, but I hate making interfaces, so no
Nov 06 01:13:27 <oil> he will just make hte server, and ill make wirc's front-end use it
Nov 06 01:13:36 <oil> see
Nov 06 01:13:41 * oil knows halfhalo, lol
Nov 06 01:13:53 <PuffTheMagic> oil, so u will conspire with halfhalo to make wirc obsolete... great
Nov 06 01:14:00 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:14:05 <palmguy> IRC on Palm - have a google chat handle repeat to irc and then have responses sent to gogle chat...
Nov 06 01:14:31 <oil> palmguy: wirc is much better then google chat
Nov 06 01:14:40 <halfhalo> OR IS IT?!?!?!
Nov 06 01:14:45 <en0x> i use wirc to download movies to me pre over dcc
Nov 06 01:14:46 <en0x> ;d
Nov 06 01:14:46 <palmguy> yes - but google chat is native on palm pre
Nov 06 01:14:54 <oil> so is wirc
Nov 06 01:14:57 <en0x> palmguy: wirc too lol
Nov 06 01:15:04 <oil> its webos irc client
Nov 06 01:15:30 <palmguy> so how do I bring it up in my options?
Nov 06 01:15:36 * oil is going to insist people pronounce it "werk" at devdays
Nov 06 01:15:42 <halfhalo> doitdoitdoit
Nov 06 01:16:04 * halfhalo is planning on watching a live stream
Nov 06 01:16:04 <palmguy> why not wurse
Nov 06 01:16:07 <oil> which reminds me to add a "its pronounced 'werk'" as a tagline
Nov 06 01:16:07 <palmguy> :-p
Nov 06 01:16:15 <PuffTheMagic> wurk
Nov 06 01:16:27 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:16:54 <PuffTheMagic> palmguy, what options?
Nov 06 01:17:01 <palmguy> so i have the option to add google, aim,fb etc - where/how do i add Wirc handles? is it simply a patch?
Nov 06 01:17:07 <PuffTheMagic> no
Nov 06 01:17:09 <oil> its an app
Nov 06 01:17:13 <PuffTheMagic> native does not mean built into webos
Nov 06 01:17:22 <PuffTheMagic> that woudl just suck
Nov 06 01:17:31 <PuffTheMagic> chatrooms and IM's are not the same
Nov 06 01:17:44 <oil> if they decided to include wirc stock? that wouldnt suck, lol
Nov 06 01:17:48 <PuffTheMagic> mobile irc clients that try to make it like that suck
Nov 06 01:17:54 <PuffTheMagic> like all other mobile irc clients
Nov 06 01:18:00 <PuffTheMagic> wIRC has more features than Xchat
Nov 06 01:18:26 <daltonj82> like?
Nov 06 01:19:28 <PuffTheMagic> xchat does not have the bad ass red marker that shows where you left off when you switch between channels
Nov 06 01:20:27 <PuffTheMagic> ok maybe not more than xchat but it does nearly everything xchat does
Nov 06 01:20:37 <PuffTheMagic> which is way more than any other mobile irc client
Nov 06 01:20:41 <PuffTheMagic> and more than most desktop clients
Nov 06 01:20:53 <PuffTheMagic> wirc does dcc chat and dcc file transfers
Nov 06 01:20:54 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:21:01 * halfhalo can attest to the fact its better than every android client
Nov 06 01:21:14 <daltonj82> lol
Nov 06 01:21:28 <daltonj82> how do you do the * red thing
Nov 06 01:21:43 <palmguy> i wish i could connect my palm to my monitor and a keyboard...
Nov 06 01:21:47 <oil> type /me is talking in third person
Nov 06 01:21:57 <halfhalo> that?  /me.  And its still broken in a private chat :p
Nov 06 01:22:17 <oil>  /me doesnt work in wirc private chats?
Nov 06 01:22:25 <halfhalo> its parsing it wrong
Nov 06 01:22:53 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, i think its automatic
Nov 06 01:23:00 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, open 2 channels
Nov 06 01:23:15 <PuffTheMagic> open up a busy channel
Nov 06 01:23:19 <PuffTheMagic> leave it for a sec
Nov 06 01:23:21 <PuffTheMagic> then come back
Nov 06 01:23:37 <PuffTheMagic> and there should be a line showing u the last message ebfore u left
Nov 06 01:23:50 <PuffTheMagic> ya there is no option to disable it
Nov 06 01:23:51 <daltonj82> ic
Nov 06 01:23:57 <PuffTheMagic> just an option to change its color
Nov 06 01:25:56 <daltonj82> puffthemagic. so you have the manullay type in the persons name everytime or is there a copy past option?
Nov 06 01:26:24 <oil> type pu then hold gesture area and press the orange key
Nov 06 01:27:56 <oil> halfhalo: it works, just has a weird : after the *, lol
Nov 06 01:28:10 <halfhalo> yeah, its not parsing it right
Nov 06 01:28:17 <halfhalo> because SOMEONE did SOMETHING
Nov 06 01:28:35 * oil doesnt even remember where that code is
Nov 06 01:29:21 <oil> does it work in dcc chat?
Nov 06 01:29:32 <daltonj82> another question... if I'm on wifi internet. can I surf and talk the same time?
Nov 06 01:29:34 <halfhalo> hell if I know
Nov 06 01:29:54 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, ya
Nov 06 01:29:59 <oil> dcc that with oil_dev, i can't do it locally
Nov 06 01:30:22 <daltonj82> cool I love this little phone haha
Nov 06 01:30:24 <PuffTheMagic> oil, ^^ dont know how to set firewall rules
Nov 06 01:30:34 <oil> apparently not
Nov 06 01:30:37 <oil> but not from lack of trying
Nov 06 01:30:57 <oil> ive never been able to test dccing files with wirc
Nov 06 01:31:00 <Naa> hii
Nov 06 01:31:07 <halfhalo> gah, making me type in a name....
Nov 06 01:31:48 <oil_dev> halfhalo:
Nov 06 01:31:57 <oil> hey Naa
Nov 06 01:32:19 <oil> bye Naa
Nov 06 01:32:27 * halfhalo notes colloquy has no dcc chat, only file transfer
Nov 06 01:32:29 <halfhalo> :/
Nov 06 01:32:33 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:32:50 <PuffTheMagic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_Internet_Relay_Chat_clients
Nov 06 01:32:59 <PuffTheMagic> ^^^ just see how much better wIRC is
Nov 06 01:33:27 <oil> you added it?
Nov 06 01:33:28 <oil> nice
Nov 06 01:33:38 <PuffTheMagic> ya
Nov 06 01:33:42 <PuffTheMagic> when i added ssl
Nov 06 01:33:53 <oil> no ipv6?
Nov 06 01:33:58 <PuffTheMagic> hell no
Nov 06 01:34:00 <PuffTheMagic> who uses that shit
Nov 06 01:34:01 * oil hangs head in shame
Nov 06 01:34:03 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:34:07 <halfhalo> dundundun...
Nov 06 01:34:09 <oil> everyone, WHEN WE RUN OUT!
Nov 06 01:34:15 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:34:29 <oil> i like the ?'s like you dont know we dont support it?
Nov 06 01:34:29 <PuffTheMagic> i stipped out all of the ipv6 shit from the irc lib
Nov 06 01:34:33 <daltonj82> how do you all type so fast on ur pre? lol
Nov 06 01:34:37 <Loudergood> haha
Nov 06 01:34:39 * oil is using a pc
Nov 06 01:34:46 <daltonj82> o ok lol
Nov 06 01:34:52 <PuffTheMagic> guess i will have to add it back
Nov 06 01:34:52 * halfhalo is using a typewriter and a scanner
Nov 06 01:34:54 <Loudergood> we'll just all be double natted soon it's no big deal ;)
Nov 06 01:34:58 <daltonj82> I'm on my mighty little pre lol
Nov 06 01:35:14 <oil> wirc needs to support whiteboard
Nov 06 01:35:21 <PuffTheMagic> oil, we need to add speech to text for wirc
Nov 06 01:35:40 <oil> sounds like a pain in the ass
Nov 06 01:35:41 <PuffTheMagic> oil, i will add it if i knew what it was
Nov 06 01:35:52 <daltonj82> or text to speech haha
Nov 06 01:36:00 <oil> PuffTheMagic: well i dont know for sure, but i assume some sort of shared drawing space
Nov 06 01:36:05 <PuffTheMagic> text to speech is easy
Nov 06 01:36:15 <PuffTheMagic> ascii drawing?
Nov 06 01:36:19 <Loudergood> speech to text?
Nov 06 01:36:27 <daltonj82> should add both options
Nov 06 01:36:43 <oil> no, like, a white screen, and when i draw my finger across from one side to the other, you see a black line
Nov 06 01:36:52 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Nov 06 01:36:56 <oil> i assume anyways
Nov 06 01:37:03 <PuffTheMagic> finger painting for the pre
Nov 06 01:37:31 <Loudergood> with a shared canvas
Nov 06 01:37:31 <oil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Client-to-Client#DCC_Whiteboard
Nov 06 01:37:44 <daltonj82> how about just write on the screen and it puts it into text
Nov 06 01:38:40 <Loudergood> like palm pilots used to do
Nov 06 01:38:42 <PuffTheMagic> oil, why would we add a feature to wirc that would only be usable with other pre users
Nov 06 01:38:53 <PuffTheMagic> idk of 1 irc client with whiteboard suppport
Nov 06 01:38:59 <oil> to put a yes in that box?
Nov 06 01:39:02 <oil> haha
Nov 06 01:39:20 <PuffTheMagic> there are like 10 other dcc options that would be more useful
Nov 06 01:39:37 <oil> on the desktop comparison page, there is Konversation and Visual IRC which say they use it
Nov 06 01:39:41 <oil> er, support it
Nov 06 01:39:48 <PuffTheMagic> resume/passive
Nov 06 01:40:09 <PuffTheMagic> oil, it make more sense on a computer with lots of resolution and a mouse
Nov 06 01:40:19 <PuffTheMagic> what could u do with your finger?
Nov 06 01:40:23 <PuffTheMagic> on a 2 in screen
Nov 06 01:40:30 <PuffTheMagic> draw 3 letters
Nov 06 01:40:33 <PuffTheMagic> then start a new page
Nov 06 01:40:38 <PuffTheMagic> draw 3 more letters
Nov 06 01:40:41 <oil> stick figure!
Nov 06 01:40:41 <PuffTheMagic> new page
Nov 06 01:40:47 <PuffTheMagic> stick?
Nov 06 01:40:50 <PuffTheMagic> more like branch
Nov 06 01:40:52 <PuffTheMagic> or log figures
Nov 06 01:40:59 <daltonj82> lol no I ment like you write a word and it inputs it into text
Nov 06 01:41:17 <PuffTheMagic> daltonj82, im not implementing graphiti
Nov 06 01:41:24 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:41:36 <daltonj82> lol
Nov 06 01:42:02 <oil> i love how all the mobile colloquy ones have [citation needed]
Nov 06 01:44:26 <oil> halfhalo: contrary to what you may have thought about /me in query
Nov 06 01:44:32 <oil> it wasn't me :)
Nov 06 01:44:45 <halfhalo> lol
Nov 06 01:44:56 <oil> someone... changed all the styles, and forgot to update that one
Nov 06 01:45:06 <halfhalo> suuure/
Nov 06 01:45:11 * PuffTheMagic looks around
Nov 06 01:45:31 <oil> from the confusingly-named "action" to the now-i-know-what-it-is "type7"
Nov 06 01:45:33 <PuffTheMagic> halfhalo, its always oils fault
Nov 06 01:45:43 * halfhalo knows.  he started that
Nov 06 01:45:48 <PuffTheMagic> action was supposed to be removed
Nov 06 01:45:51 * oil goes to the git logs to point out when the "type#"s were added
Nov 06 01:45:53 <PuffTheMagic> as with all the "nice names"
Nov 06 01:46:05 <PuffTheMagic> so that i knew they were all converted
Nov 06 01:46:15 <PuffTheMagic> then the "type" names converted to friendly names
Nov 06 01:46:17 <oil> you were the one doing the converting
Nov 06 01:46:48 <PuffTheMagic> oil, u are the gui overlord, its still your fault for not testing everything
Nov 06 01:46:56 <oil> lol
Nov 06 01:46:56 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Nov 06 01:47:48 <oil> lol, i added that tagline with a low weight
Nov 06 01:47:55 <oil> and ive gotten it hte last two times i launched it
Nov 06 01:48:27 <oil> http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/wIRC.git;a=commitdiff;h=22e9e06aa420e20966d4db72417aaa50a7ec8c39
Nov 06 01:48:29 <PuffTheMagic> what tag line?
Nov 06 01:48:32 <oil> now its there for all eternity
Nov 06 01:48:38 <oil> "its pronounced 'werk'"
Nov 06 01:51:45 <daltonj82> what's a goog desktop widget app I'm looking for one on preware
Nov 06 01:51:57 <oil> is there?
Nov 06 01:52:23 <PuffTheMagic> webos does not have desktop widgets
Nov 06 01:52:30 <daltonj82> widget that's weather I ment
Nov 06 01:52:37 <PuffTheMagic> there is no good one
Nov 06 01:52:43 <PuffTheMagic> its all suck
Nov 06 01:52:50 <daltonj82> ic
Nov 06 01:53:00 <oil> wasnt there one that changed the icon?
Nov 06 01:53:05 <PuffTheMagic> yea
Nov 06 01:53:10 <PuffTheMagic> that one was decents
Nov 06 01:53:14 <PuffTheMagic> decent
Nov 06 01:53:27 <oil> you know, i had the first weather app
Nov 06 01:53:35 <oil> when the phone came out there was nothing, but this weather app
Nov 06 01:53:38 <oil> i never looked at it
Nov 06 01:53:47 <PuffTheMagic> i made a weather app to
Nov 06 01:53:51 <oil> i know
Nov 06 01:53:52 <PuffTheMagic> its a shortcut to weather.com
Nov 06 01:53:56 <oil> oh
Nov 06 01:53:58 <oil> that one guy
Nov 06 01:54:01 <oil> ni| was it?
Nov 06 01:54:06 <PuffTheMagic> nil
Nov 06 01:54:10 <PuffTheMagic> my boy
Nov 06 01:54:24 <oil> didn't he do "thefuckingweather.com"?
Nov 06 01:54:28 <oil> app
Nov 06 01:54:32 <PuffTheMagic> yea
Nov 06 01:54:34 <PuffTheMagic> he still owes me that threaded e-mail patch
Nov 06 01:54:35 <daltonj82> haha
Nov 06 01:54:49 * oil would have used that app
Nov 06 01:54:53 <oil> i never saw it though
Nov 06 01:54:58 <oil> there is an icon on the icon page, haha
Nov 06 01:55:22 <PuffTheMagic> oil, i will ask him for it
Nov 06 01:55:26 <PuffTheMagic> so we can rerelease it
Nov 06 01:55:30 <oil> seriously
Nov 06 01:55:45 * oil is looking forward to it
Nov 06 01:55:49 <PuffTheMagic> my dev pre is like 1000 degress
Nov 06 01:55:58 <PuffTheMagic> its been in infinte reboot loop for 2 horus now
Nov 06 01:58:20 <ashi_todd> If you can't get in with novaterm to shutdown now -h, just pull the battery, heh.
Nov 06 02:12:36 <windzilla> the icon app is called weather icon
Nov 06 02:14:08 <daltonj82> how you get a dev pre I heard people where getting dev pre2 know
Nov 06 02:14:50 <ashi_todd> from france
Nov 06 02:15:51 <bpadalino> ooh, la la!
Nov 06 02:16:12 <daltonj82> how though?
Nov 06 02:16:19 <ashi_todd> http://www.sfr.fr/mobile/telephone-portable/palm-pre-2?vue=000agv
Nov 06 02:16:22 <halfhalo> internets
Nov 06 02:16:23 <ashi_todd> a la carte
Nov 06 02:16:51 <ashi_todd> er, avec SFR la Carte
Nov 06 02:17:52 <PuffTheMagic> ashi_todd, im not TRYING to do anything
Nov 06 02:17:58 <PuffTheMagic> im just too lazy to take out the battery
Nov 06 02:18:22 * ashi_todd grins
Nov 06 02:27:26 <rwhitby> True support request: "im sorry to bather u with this problem i know u have beter things to do but if u can help me with one thing i workin on meta for verizon and i have evrything don like u writhe in u poste i follow the poste to the leather and when i tray to do  make unpack patch pack i got this error."
Nov 06 02:28:04 <rwhitby> my first guess is that he's made a typo somewhere ...
Nov 06 02:28:15 <windzilla> haha
Nov 06 02:28:36 <bpadalino> he looks like a skilled and experienced typist
Nov 06 02:28:57 <bpadalino> nay - stenographer
Nov 06 02:29:00 <ashi_todd> :D
Nov 06 02:29:40 <en0x> ;]
Nov 06 02:30:44 <ashi_todd> I do wonder whether they did "make unpack patch pack" as one command...
Nov 06 02:36:26 <tmzt> speach recognition
Nov 06 02:42:32 <en0x> hehehe
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 06 02:59:57 2010