**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 14 02:59:59 2010
Nov 14 04:23:06 * sportman waves
Nov 14 04:23:20 <sportman> so is there any more info about web2.0 for the original pre?
Nov 14 04:23:31 <sportman> i have been trying to see if there is anything about release dates for the update
Nov 14 04:23:38 <sportman> or if people are wokring on getting the update going ahead of time
Nov 14 04:28:20 <Loudergood> no, no, yes, and for your next question no.
Nov 14 04:32:15 <sportman> so which questions was yes?
Nov 14 04:39:59 <Loudergood> the third one.
Nov 14 04:42:30 <sportman> oh the people working on it ahead of time
Nov 14 04:42:41 <sportman> what did you think my next question was?
Nov 14 05:53:24 <rsanchez> hello, had a quick question on uberkernel
Nov 14 05:53:55 <rsanchez> it's suppose to cut down on the tmc errors even at 500MHz rigt?
Nov 14 05:54:26 <ka6sox> tmc errors have nothing to do with how fast the unit runs.
Nov 14 05:55:10 <rsanchez> ok
Nov 14 05:55:27 <ka6sox> TMC has to do with memory management
Nov 14 05:55:45 <rsanchez> I don't think I want to run at 1Ghz, but I really want to reduce tmc
Nov 14 05:55:50 <ka6sox> now, UK has some fixes that help with TMC errors.
Nov 14 05:57:12 <ka6sox> they aren't eliminated completely...but they are helped.
Nov 14 05:58:09 <rsanchez> is there another patch/addon that could help with tmc?
Nov 14 06:01:19 * oil should make a patch that just removes the tmc popup request
Nov 14 06:02:12 <dtzWill> oil: lol
Nov 14 06:02:25 <oil> its probably in the framework somewhere
Nov 14 06:02:32 <dtzWill> rsanchez: did you get your x forwarding in the end? :)
Nov 14 06:03:06 <rsanchez> yeah I could launch xeyes lol
Nov 14 06:05:09 <dtzWill> rsanchez: :). try running kde :P
Nov 14 06:05:45 <rsanchez> lol that runs slow on my computer
Nov 14 06:06:00 <rsanchez> can't imagine the framerate on my pre...
Nov 14 06:06:43 <ka6sox> dtzWill, reminded me of compcache as a help too :D
Nov 14 06:10:40 <rsanchez> be back in a bit
Nov 14 06:27:51 <palmpreSF> any good repo to recommend?
Nov 14 06:46:33 <ashi_todd> lol xeyes
Nov 14 07:07:57 <rsanchez> just tried to launch an image viewing program through x forwarding... not working out so well lol
Nov 14 07:08:18 <rsanchez> finally loaded after 10 minutes
Nov 14 07:08:48 <ka6sox> the poor thing isn't designed for this.
Nov 14 07:09:51 <rsanchez> you can do it pre!!!
Nov 14 07:20:45 <makkk> does anyone know if having the uberkernel messes with pdk develpment? i can't seem to connect to the device and am wondering why
Nov 14 07:21:34 <rsanchez> you can't conect using novaterm?
Nov 14 07:22:54 <makkk> hmm... maybe there's my problem. i'm going through cmd
Nov 14 07:22:58 <makkk> let me try novaterm
Nov 14 07:23:57 <rsanchez> novacom or novaterm
Nov 14 07:25:11 <makkk> are these available in windows?
Nov 14 07:25:17 <makkk> i have the nova-browser
Nov 14 07:25:40 <rsanchez> they should have been installed with the sdk
Nov 14 07:28:20 <makkk> not seeing it.. seeing everything else, but not novacom
Nov 14 07:29:14 <rsanchez> type it in the command promp?
Nov 14 07:31:14 <makkk> it claims it can't connect to server
Nov 14 07:31:44 <rsanchez> hmm...
Nov 14 07:32:02 <makkk> let me try a reinstall/restart
Nov 14 07:32:17 <rsanchez> you do have developer mode turned on right?
Nov 14 07:32:28 <makkk> yeah, checked that
Nov 14 07:34:28 <makkk> btw, do you know if the 32 bit will work on a 64bit system?
Nov 14 07:34:45 <makkk> not 100% sure what visualstudio version i have
Nov 14 07:35:18 <rsanchez> I'm not sure about that, don't use visual studio
Nov 14 07:35:43 <makkk> ok. going to restart and such. brb. thanks
Nov 14 07:35:44 <rsanchez> but if there is a 64bit version you should use that one
Nov 14 12:01:49 <gianguido> hey
Nov 14 14:00:16 <Badcard> Hello peeps :-)
Nov 14 14:03:18 <Badcard> Can anyone here give me some tips on how to install Preware on a Pre2/WebOS2.0 ?
Nov 14 14:54:16 <daltonj82> is there a app or a easier way to access the prl on the pre?
Nov 14 14:58:56 <cryptk> daltonj82, not that I know of
Nov 14 14:59:04 <cryptk> Badcard, I have never done it on webos 2.0
Nov 14 14:59:47 <daltonj82> so hows os 2.0
Nov 14 15:03:10 <cryptk> I don't have it... :( (sprint pre.. minus...)
Nov 14 15:07:35 <daltonj82> me to bro kinda suxs hopefully the masterminds can get it up and funning for us because I don't think sprint will release it
Nov 14 15:08:16 <daltonj82> I did read that palm is working on 5 new devices though one is the pre 2
Nov 14 15:30:00 <Badcard> WebOS2.0 rocks!
Nov 14 15:30:16 <Badcard> Love the stacks, feels really natural to me
Nov 14 15:30:37 <Badcard> The launcher is also miles better... they took sconix's pointers! :-p
Nov 14 15:31:12 <Badcard> The device itself feels like a much better quality phone... really what the Pre+ should've been though
Nov 14 15:31:56 <Badcard> I love the Pre's form factor but I'm also eager to see what the new devices will be like
Nov 14 15:32:30 <Badcard> Battery life is much better...not hard to do, but still appreciated
Nov 14 15:33:12 <Badcard> 2.0 feels really good, but I can't wait to get my Preware patch's back! :-p
Nov 14 16:38:10 <JD82> hey guys i have a quick question. is there a program like cdma workshop for the linux operation system instead of windows?
Nov 14 17:18:00 <ashi_todd> JD82: could try bitpim.
Nov 14 17:24:35 <JD82> ok
Nov 14 17:32:33 <JD82> ashi_todd:  is there any special drivers?
Nov 14 17:38:28 <ashi_todd> JD82: i have no idea. I just found it by googling. I have not tried it, though I might, since I use Linux as my main OS.
Nov 14 17:39:04 <JD82> well im dl it know ill let u know if u want
Nov 14 17:39:23 <JD82> what distro u using?
Nov 14 18:47:12 <ashi_todd> JD82: ubuntu 10.10 on my desktop at home.
Nov 14 18:49:23 <JD82> ashi_todd: me to cant get bitpim to work wont red the phone
Nov 14 18:49:34 <JD82> read i ment
Nov 14 19:21:35 <ashi_todd> ah
Nov 14 19:35:41 <rboatright> hi
Nov 14 20:21:19 <rwhitby> Badcard: ping
Nov 14 20:22:01 <rwhitby> what host OS are you running, Badcard?
Nov 14 20:33:24 <JD82> rwhitby: hey have u used bitpim on a  pre before?
Nov 14 20:33:44 <rwhitby> no
Nov 14 20:34:22 <JD82> u know a program that can play witht the radio on a pre im wanting to change my prl
Nov 14 20:35:12 <rwhitby> Ask your carrier.
Nov 14 20:36:52 <JD82>  windows computer but all i own know is a linux computer
Nov 14 20:37:26 <JD82> what i ment is im wanting to install a alltel prl im with sprint.
Nov 14 20:37:50 <JD82> i know cdma workshop would work if i had windows
Nov 14 20:37:55 <JD82> but im on linux
Nov 14 20:44:24 <Loudergood> longshot but wine?
Nov 14 21:00:17 <JD82> Loudergood: i have virtualbox installed im dl windows xp know but just a stripped down version know
Nov 14 21:38:09 <ice8lue> heyho @ all
Nov 14 21:42:14 <ice8lue> is it possible that running Uber1G at SS 500MHz/1GHz continously drains the battery health?
Nov 14 21:44:36 <rwhitby> yes, if you have an application continuously running in the background.
Nov 14 21:44:52 <ice8lue> mhh not that i knew of...
Nov 14 21:44:56 <rwhitby> but it won't be any worse than stock configuration when the screen is off
Nov 14 21:45:07 <rwhitby> (500MHz is 500MHz)
Nov 14 21:45:58 <ice8lue> well...in June i had the 20%-to-0%-drop problem, therefore i did a re-calibration with dr battery which said the battery health was 80%
Nov 14 21:46:07 <Loudergood> yeah I run at 500/800 all the time (1Ghz made the phone get too hot when recording video)
Nov 14 21:46:36 <ice8lue> last week I had to doctor my pre and afterwards had to do this calibration again, which resulted in 65% health
Nov 14 21:49:50 <ice8lue> and i think 15% in 5 months is much...
Nov 14 21:59:27 <ice8lue> btw, how is 2.0 developement going on? is luna starting now?
Nov 14 22:15:23 <ice8lue> hm noone wants to talk
Nov 14 22:16:03 <Loudergood> busy with other household things
Nov 14 22:16:10 <ice8lue> ^^
Nov 14 22:27:41 <ice8lue> gn8 everyone
Nov 14 23:57:19 <destinal> rwhitby: do you use darwinports?
Nov 14 23:58:39 <destinal> looking for best practices for managing unix software packages on OSX.   I've got xcode and I'm sure autoconf works in many cases, but dependencies, packages, etc would simplify things
Nov 14 23:58:57 * halfhalo uses macports
Nov 15 00:01:03 <destinal> halfhalo: cool, I'll check it out
Nov 15 00:11:13 <mdogg> good morning
Nov 15 00:11:39 <mdogg> does anyone know if it is possible to run linux commands in webos applications
Nov 15 00:11:46 <mdogg> or if terminal has a public api
Nov 15 00:12:01 <rwhitby> destinal: I use macports, but not very much.
Nov 15 00:12:53 <rwhitby> mdogg: git.webos-internals.org has examples of applications which do that.  You don't want a generic command line service, lest it be used by a rogue wallpaper app to send your banking details to a russian botnet.
Nov 15 00:13:12 <rwhitby> So we create very specific sanitised interfaces for specific apps.
Nov 15 00:13:36 <rwhitby> Terminal is specifically designed not to allow a Mojo app to control it - the input has to come from a real user.
Nov 15 00:19:44 <mdogg> No program can execute an sh file then?  I'm looking to make a gui for psfreedom
Nov 15 00:20:39 <dtzWill> mdogg: you'll need to write something like a plugin like terminal, hybrid like wirc, or just a pdk app.
Nov 15 00:20:58 <dtzWill> each has it's pros/cons, but afaik raw webos javascript cannot invoke commands as you're hoping.
Nov 15 00:21:20 <rwhitby> and normal PDK apps are jailed, so can't execute insmod commands as root either
Nov 15 00:21:29 <mdogg> pdk or hybrid won't do the job, I need acces to the kernel
Nov 15 00:21:38 <mdogg> as rw just said ;)
Nov 15 00:22:10 <rwhitby> mdogg: look at Save/Restore in the link I gave you.  Specifically the src/luna_methods.c file.
Nov 15 00:22:36 <rwhitby> Preware, Save/Restore, Govnah, Lumberjack, are all examples of that technique.
Nov 15 00:22:49 <dtzWill> sorry didn't realize you needed that kinda access.
Nov 15 00:23:03 <dtzWill> also rwhitby knows this better anyway
Nov 15 00:23:05 <dtzWill> :)
Nov 15 00:26:18 <mdogg> thanks, this looks useful
Nov 15 00:26:29 <mdogg> I assume it's a big app catalog nono?
Nov 15 00:26:41 <rwhitby> yep
Nov 15 00:27:42 <mdogg> shame, but freeware anyway
Nov 15 00:28:14 <mdogg> rwhitby: is there any reason why such an application does not already exist?
Nov 15 00:28:28 <rwhitby> other than no-one has written it, no.
Nov 15 00:51:03 * destinal is new to the post jail PDK world.
Nov 15 00:51:19 <destinal> is it possible to specify a PDK app not be jailed somehow?
Nov 15 00:53:02 <destinal> or are C services included alongside the app the best way to go for the moment (like how preware does it)
Nov 15 00:55:32 <destinal> rwhitby: say, for instance we wanted a DOOM like app to have root access and not run in a jail, would we need to use tricks like we did with the original DOOM app (before we knew of type: game) or are jail profiles an OS configuration item?
Nov 15 00:56:14 <destinal> (and thus customizable with root level access to the system already)
Nov 15 01:04:01 <Loudergood> hmm...that almost smells like a bug in preware..
Nov 15 01:04:37 <Loudergood> just updated that and a patch that asked for luna restart..and poof preware closed because it was updated
Nov 15 01:04:51 <Imop45> you could reverse engineer the Palm jail code
Nov 15 01:07:40 <destinal> Imop45: sure.  I guess I wanted to figure out if anyone was already digging into it.  looks like there's a reference on the Application_Signing page about a jail.conf.  hmm..
Nov 15 01:08:32 <destinal> err jail_app.conf
Nov 15 01:08:52 <Imop45> isn't there a program to compare the differences in two files? that'll quickly tell you what's exactly changed
Nov 15 01:09:06 * oil thought there was something to do with putting "pardon" in a file
Nov 15 01:09:07 <oil> or something
Nov 15 01:09:20 <oil> to get out of the jail
Nov 15 01:09:33 <bpadalino> i thought doing a pardon will let everything run outside of the jail
Nov 15 01:09:48 * oil has no clue
Nov 15 01:10:18 * destinal checks out the logs
Nov 15 01:10:26 <Imop45> oil: or an attorny
Nov 15 01:11:01 <destinal> oil: whichever it is, I think we need a get out of jail free card
Nov 15 01:11:15 <oil> i just like that its called pardon
Nov 15 01:11:19 <oil> lol
Nov 15 01:11:57 <Imop45> hmm, time to play prenopoly
Nov 15 01:12:02 <destinal> oil: palm naming convention humor is the best.  (eyes trenchcoat)
Nov 15 01:12:14 <oil> yeah
Nov 15 01:12:55 <Loudergood> yeah that's pretty funny stuff
Nov 15 01:17:57 <rsanchez> hi guys
Nov 15 01:18:16 <rsanchez> have a question on the debian chroot environment
Nov 15 01:18:45 <rsanchez> I use it to install a window manager for use with the x server on pre right?
Nov 15 01:27:24 <dtzWill> rsanchez: it's definitely one of the easier ways to do that :)
Nov 15 01:29:45 <rsanchez> if I want to use the window manager later do I have to activate the debian rootfs each time, or just for install?
Nov 15 01:44:46 <rsanchez> or can I just leave the debian chroot mounted?
Nov 15 01:46:59 <rwhitby> destinal: as I've always said, C service running outside of PDK type game or jails is the most robust architecture (which is why stuck to it)
Nov 15 01:47:09 <rwhitby> oil: echo "pardon" > /etc/nojail
Nov 15 01:47:18 <oil> so its global
Nov 15 01:47:19 <oil> not per-app
Nov 15 01:47:54 <rwhitby> destinal: we've worked out how to do signed jail_app.conf files, but they are additive only, you can't disable the jail in one of them, nor make the executable run as root.
Nov 15 01:48:36 <rwhitby> you could use them to let one app see into another apps directory, for example.  or to see a new /dev file.  but that's pretty much it.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 15 02:59:58 2010