**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 20 02:59:57 2010 Nov 20 03:51:29 wow, palm folks actually recommended the webos-internals WIDK for someone on linux since they don't have the official PDK up and running on linux yet.. you can get your app running on that, still submit it normally, and it's great! (paraphrasing) Nov 20 03:51:42 yeah Nov 20 03:51:49 there was lots of plugging of wi stuff today Nov 20 04:32:36 Hello everyone Nov 20 04:33:26 I have a quick question for you all.. I recently purchase an Evo 4G that is now my daily driver. I created a Meta-Doctor and doctored my Pre to bypass activation and the first use app. My question now is...Is there a way to sign in to my Palm profile without activating the phone? Nov 20 04:34:24 if you run the firstuse app it should just do the profile stuff? Nov 20 04:34:58 Well, I started the first use app, but it scared me a little when I set the language and the phone then said "Phone Activated" so I closed out first use haha. Nov 20 04:35:20 I can't have this phone taking over activation due to my 6 month limitation with Wirefly that I have to retain activation on the Evo Nov 20 04:35:41 i dont know :/ Nov 20 04:37:35 Hmm.. I'm going to go ahead and run First Use all the way through and create a new profile. Fingers crossed that it doesn't activate haha. Nov 20 04:37:45 Do you know if webOS 2.0 will be easily meta doctored like 1.4.5 is? Nov 20 04:39:15 yeah Nov 20 05:32:51 hey peeps Nov 20 05:33:24 im like so fucked up i drank gin Nov 20 05:33:58 lol Nov 20 05:54:18 msd18: lol Nov 20 05:56:30 hey dtz Nov 20 05:56:36 gin is awsome Nov 20 06:05:12 going to bed nite Nov 20 10:42:30 Hey anoyone ;) Nov 20 10:42:40 Anoybody here who could help me? Nov 20 10:43:20 please ;) Nov 20 10:44:51 with what? Nov 20 10:46:11 Hi MetaView ;) I ant to install the preware soft but I really dont know which file I have to download with my palm Pre phone... :( Nov 20 10:46:39 Costa: search for "Preware" in the Palm app catalog. Nov 20 10:46:52 Download and install "Preware Homebrew Documentation" from the search results. Nov 20 10:47:08 Read the step-by-step instructions in that app - it tells you what to do. Nov 20 10:47:20 Hi rwhitby, I'll have a try ;) Nov 20 10:47:49 rwhitby: jetlag? Nov 20 10:47:58 it#s middle of night in NYC, or? Nov 20 10:48:15 5:40am Nov 20 10:48:54 still quite early :) Nov 20 10:49:00 yes Nov 20 10:49:47 hello? Nov 20 10:49:50 Sry disconnected... I found Preware Homebrew Documentation. 0,99€ is it the price only fpr the documentation? Nov 20 10:49:59 yes Nov 20 10:50:01 yes Nov 20 10:50:16 hello?\ Nov 20 10:50:22 the 0.99 is a donation to webosinternals team Nov 20 10:50:51 preware doesnt show up in web os quick instal Nov 20 10:51:00 MetaView: actually, the 0.99 is a payment to me directly, not a donation. Nov 20 10:51:42 You know any other way to block unwanted calls comin from a contact in my contact list? It's the only feature I need know ,) Nov 20 10:51:49 now Nov 20 10:52:20 rwhitby: oh, ok Nov 20 10:52:25 Costa_: I do not. Nov 20 10:53:00 @ rwhitby: I'm from Germany are there any problems known cause of the language? Nov 20 10:53:31 Costa_: the app is in English only unfortunately. Preware itself has German translations. Nov 20 10:53:57 the German translation sucks... Nov 20 10:54:03 hehe ;:D Nov 20 10:54:04 anyway, I'm German too Nov 20 10:54:20 there are patches which will not work on German devices Nov 20 10:54:35 they only work with english as os language Nov 20 10:54:37 MetaView: patches welcome on the Preware translations ... Nov 20 10:55:04 MetaView: you already have direct write access to the source code repository where the Preware German translations are kept - make them not suck. Nov 20 10:55:07 rwhitby: well, maybe then it doesn't suck that much :) Nov 20 10:55:43 MetaView: you can make them shine instead of sucking. Will you do that? Nov 20 10:55:58 if I find some time, yes Nov 20 10:56:11 haven't even touched UberCalendar for ages Nov 20 10:56:26 all progress of the last weeks was done by frantid Nov 20 10:56:41 day job and kids doesn't leave much time Nov 20 10:57:48 My life is much eayier ;) livin' at my parents home, woke up drunken this morning and so far ;D Nov 20 10:57:52 just now I try to make a seperate app from BirthdayEventPatch Nov 20 10:58:13 but now have to hurry, the flat needs some cleaning... Nov 20 10:58:30 Costa_: I would suggest being sober before installing Preware. Nov 20 10:59:24 but actually, using WebOSQuickInstall it goes quite easy Nov 20 10:59:27 :D I think it will be my first aim today ;D Nov 20 10:59:51 I just read the wiki I hope it'll help me ;) Nov 20 11:00:37 Is there a reason to download the software in the palm app store? I would pay up to 5€ ;) Nov 20 11:01:55 yes, it explains everything Nov 20 11:02:00 why 5€? Nov 20 11:02:15 Costa_: www.youtube.com/webosinternals - that video will tell you why Preware is not directly in the app store. Nov 20 11:03:26 Because I need the feature ;) I'll watch the video =) Nov 20 11:04:40 It got a lenght of round about an houer?! Way to much ;) Nov 20 11:05:21 Some people at the session told me it was not nearly enough. Nov 20 11:06:54 OK, but I think i wouldn't understand the whole presantation ;) Nov 20 11:08:58 Unfortunately there is no German translation. Nov 20 11:09:15 Is the documentation at the app tore a step-by-step introduction? I've never herad abaout the developer mode or anything like this ;) Nov 20 11:11:00 Yes, it is. Nov 20 11:11:25 And it contains links to forums where you can post questions if you have problems. Nov 20 11:11:45 So it is the best to download the doc, I think.+ Nov 20 11:12:44 wondering why my pre2 says "your phone is up to date" when others are getting the 2.0.1 update.. has it something to do with regional settings or where it was activated? Nov 20 11:12:58 I hope I can install the soft easily. I don't want to reg my nick in any other boards you know ;) Nov 20 11:13:21 Costa_: you seem to have a lot of limitations on what you will do to achieve your goal. Nov 20 11:13:33 falchie: what carrier? Nov 20 11:14:33 rwhitby: a swedish one, tele2 Nov 20 11:15:19 falchie: is it an SFR Pre 2 or an unlocked sim-free Pre 2 ? Nov 20 11:15:28 rwhitby: unlocked Nov 20 11:16:32 falchie: no idea, sorry. Nov 20 11:19:00 rwhitby: okej, thanks anyway Nov 20 11:19:34 falchie: if you tail -f /var/log/messages while running the update app, you might get some more information Nov 20 11:21:50 rwhitby: i'll try that Nov 20 11:50:54 rwhitby: "roadrunner user.err UpdateDaemon: Unable to read update build from" seems like the closest thing to an error Nov 20 11:51:12 yep, that would do it. Nov 20 11:51:20 pastebin the full error message Nov 20 11:51:43 did you meta-doctor this device or anything like that? or is it a straight Palm doctor install? Nov 20 11:54:25 rwhitby: it's a straight palm doctor install Nov 20 11:55:23 rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/wjWWC2hf Nov 20 12:07:38 falchie: is there anything later which shows the reply to the curl command? Nov 20 12:09:55 rwhitby: no, nothing Nov 20 16:16:21 so who else is here at Developer Days in NYC? Nov 20 16:19:40 rwhitby, was there (may stoill be, not sure) Nov 20 16:20:01 rwhitby and oilsworkn are Nov 20 16:28:24 man I wish I could have made it. Too bad I'm in Oregon, not that oil was any closer Nov 20 19:56:41 is this working? Nov 20 19:56:44 oh cool. Nov 20 19:56:50 algright Nov 20 19:56:59 i went to download the "advance settings" patch Nov 20 19:57:12 and i got an error saying i couldn't download a "hunk" Nov 20 19:57:14 suggestions? Nov 20 20:08:54 wow, only waited 2 minutes? Nov 20 20:09:24 I know... Nov 20 20:09:30 I was just about to tell him what to do too... Nov 20 20:09:33 oh well... Nov 20 20:10:34 I just gave up when I got said error and lost interest Nov 20 20:10:53 was going to suggest the same, apparently you're more useful than I Nov 20 20:12:05 er rather more helpful, probably more useful as well though Nov 20 20:12:40 kids these days... so demanding... Nov 20 20:14:46 phil_bw, the best way to install the advanced config patches is to update your saved packages list, run EPR, install the advanced config patches, then go into your saved packages list and click install all. Nov 20 20:15:10 then whenever it errors out on applying a patch, swipe to delete it from the list, wait for the list to resave and click install all again Nov 20 20:15:30 cryptk: good to know, thanks Nov 20 20:16:03 I just got a refurb and was trying some new patches upon recovery and that was the only one to fight back Nov 20 20:17:50 they touch ALOT of files, they will conflict with alot of other patches (although it isn't so much that they conflict, more like replace) Nov 20 21:44:39 I can't believe I missed DevDay and the free Pre2s! I'm only 20min away! Nov 20 21:46:48 !!! Nov 20 22:33:38 any devs around? Nov 20 22:34:22 have a fix for a problem not covered in webOSint wiki Nov 20 22:34:33 and i want to submit Nov 20 22:35:05 Mugen[home]: simply add it to the wiki? Nov 20 22:36:02 i can... figured it'd carry more clout if a current/trusted member added it Nov 20 22:37:47 Mugen[home]: but you didn't figure out how to install 2.0 on the good ol' pre? ;) Nov 20 22:38:00 lol.. i wish :( Nov 20 22:38:38 had the weirdest problem though... last night, picked up the pre to check some mail, and mobile network failed to connect (no 3g/ev/1x icon) Nov 20 22:38:44 could make calls though. Nov 20 22:38:57 Mugen[home]: if its SO important, tell precentral or some other news page, whoever writes it to the wiki Nov 20 22:39:05 so i fiddled with settings, mobile network, etc... then rebooted Nov 20 22:39:33 then it couldn't find the carrier just kept saying "Searching..." Nov 20 22:40:52 it's not important... seeing as i seem to be the only user to have come up on it Nov 20 22:41:06 just figured i'd help the community in case i don't :P Nov 20 23:09:25 anyone ever gotten the problem "Sorry, we are unable to authenticate your phone" on vzw? Nov 20 23:10:55 Mugen[home]: I think that's a "call VZW" type issue to be honest. I'm on sprint but usually that kind of thing is an account profile or possibly hardware problem Nov 20 23:11:36 hmmm... Nov 20 23:11:46 I was just checking out the new enyo framework stuff. seems almost too simple, but it's amazing if it works the way it seems to Nov 20 23:11:59 are you at dev day? Nov 20 23:12:38 no just watching videos and liveblogged updates Nov 20 23:15:25 do you have a link to a good video? Nov 20 23:17:30 it was live on the ustream but doesn't look like it was recorded there, yesterday palm posted them all on their youtube at the end of the day so I imagine they'll probably do the same for today's talks Nov 20 23:18:46 gotcha... what looks like the main selling point of Enyo? Nov 20 23:20:55 looks like they're going to a really lightweight, fast, simple framework for future webos apps that's javascript but less in the way of html and css, these apps can run in any random browser, was demonstrated on a desktop without emulator, in chrome I believe. Nov 20 23:23:21 I like the looks of Enyo Nov 20 23:23:42 I can forsee it working well for UI development of hybrid apps Nov 20 23:23:44 looks like it's a lot faster and easier to write apps in too and results in straightforward, easy to read code that could run on any webkit based system in theory. really neat looking Nov 20 23:24:36 I'm sure there are a lot of developers out there that have a lot of C/C++ code they'd love to port over only now if it doesn't use OpenGL or SDL it won't work (well not well) Nov 20 23:25:10 well we have hybrid apps but they're not being accepted into catalog just yet. Nov 20 23:25:28 with Enyo they'll be able to easily write a robust UI to go along with the hybrid app Nov 20 23:26:03 hmmm Nov 20 23:26:08 *nods* true. definitely looks impressive, can't wait to play with it. Nov 20 23:26:09 you've got to admit, for someone simply looking to put a UI to native code Mojo is pretty bloated Nov 20 23:26:36 you really think so? Nov 20 23:26:46 I'm sure Enyo will work well for full apps as well, but it won't just have to be for that Nov 20 23:26:49 of course Nov 20 23:27:08 if all of the heavy lifting is done in native code you don't need the UI to be overly complicated Nov 20 23:27:31 anyhow, gotta run Nov 20 23:27:33 * phil_bw wanders off Nov 20 23:27:36 see ya Nov 20 23:39:17 hello Nov 20 23:39:30 hi Nov 20 23:41:29 this is kinda cool.. I just found out about how to use this while watching some predev day things on utube Nov 20 23:43:54 my preware keeps sayin that is not running... what do i do? i have reloaded rebooted and all... someone help please Nov 20 23:44:19 cruskin, what do you mean? Nov 20 23:44:33 when you click on the icon in launcher, what does it say exactly? Nov 20 23:45:03 trikk, what do you mean? Nov 20 23:45:06 irc? Nov 20 23:45:33 The service is not runny. try restarting preware, or reboot you phone and try again... that's what it keeps saying to me Nov 20 23:46:16 sorry, running* Nov 20 23:49:01 hello Nov 21 00:08:55 lol re: the service is not runny :) Nov 21 00:09:31 I picture a very messy service Nov 21 00:24:50 heh Nov 21 00:41:49 destinal, you were right about my pre problem Nov 21 00:42:03 vzw managed to push the new auth-key to the phone and i'm back up and running Nov 21 00:42:09 they still can't tell me why it happened though Nov 21 00:44:20 Mugen[home]: ah, cool. glad they got you fixed up Nov 21 00:46:11 i was so happy when i went into the store... there was a gentleman beside me that had a speaker problem on his pre so he needed a replacement. the counter clerk asked him if he had thought about upgrading... and his response was and i quote "No way!!!! I absolutely adore that phone, I wish they made more like this..." Nov 21 00:46:41 he was even eligable for an upgrade at reduce price, and the clerk was trying to sell him on a droid 2/x Nov 21 00:47:08 ...i thought it was neat. we need more users to see/feel/use webos so that it doesn't go the way of the dodos Nov 21 00:48:29 Mugen[home]: yeah, market share is pretty small but loyalty seems to be really high among users Nov 21 00:49:07 just need some newer devices... and a webOS tablet would just be dreamy Nov 21 00:49:09 when the palmpad and the next gen hp phones come out next year I think we'll see more adoption Nov 21 00:49:41 i hope so... it really is the non-iphone iphone Nov 21 00:50:02 and palm deserves the market share Nov 21 00:51:04 welp, i'm off to watch the dev day keynote from yesterday Nov 21 00:51:09 ...afk Nov 21 00:52:06 Mugen[home]: I've used a lot of both iphone and android and to me, webos is the most modification-friendly of the lot. maybe maemo / meego is better still for hacking on but none of their devices have been cheap / carrier subsidized and more importantly, on sprint (which still has unlimited data and I can afford it) Nov 21 00:52:42 it's sad to think that we'll have to do comm board swaps to stay on sprint with pre2 Nov 21 00:52:49 :\ Nov 21 00:52:55 i agree... Nov 21 00:53:08 i'll comment before i go afk Nov 21 00:53:25 here's how i see the mobile smartphone market and devices Nov 21 00:53:39 iOS really is the bees knees when it comes to hardware software and uix Nov 21 00:54:07 when i look at a device, and i'm rating it for usability, the UIX has to be perfectly fluid 100% of the time Nov 21 00:54:24 something Android has utterly failed at Nov 21 00:54:33 and something that Apple got perfectly with iOS Nov 21 00:55:05 webOS is awesome, because it's almost up there with iOS, but manages to have the community support a-la Android hackers Nov 21 00:55:15 yeah, I was using an iphone4 the other day and noticed that for respnsiveness it has the pre beat cold (but maybe not pre+/pre2, I don't know) Nov 21 00:55:46 yeah, while i was at the vzw store, i was side-by-side'ing the galaxy tab to the ipad Nov 21 00:55:58 and resolution/display size aside Nov 21 00:56:11 the ipad is just so much better because of that fluidity in the uix Nov 21 00:56:40 and i'm a firm believer of the fact that that stems from androids fragmentation in the market Nov 21 00:56:44 but apple is really not developer friendly IMO when you look at all the hoops you have to jump through. (OSX only and have to pay $99 to apple to get a signing key) Nov 21 00:57:02 it's like the win98 of the mobile world... it has to support so much hardware, that it never does any one thing perfectly Nov 21 00:57:26 oh dear god no... i think objective-c makes my head explode Nov 21 00:57:43 ...that said. if you're a good Apple dev, you're golden Nov 21 00:58:00 and that brings me back to why i love webOS so much Nov 21 00:58:19 they retain control of the hardware... so the OS is built sturdy and under same specs Nov 21 00:58:36 If you want to go around the app store you need to jailbreak an iphone, install a code signing bypass for apk's on the device, and self-sign a key in Xcode, too. — really pretty painful. Nov 21 00:58:40 user interface experience is always spot on, because they know what hardware its going on Nov 21 00:58:56 right Nov 21 00:59:07 but their market is for monkeys Nov 21 00:59:12 and it filled the niche Nov 21 00:59:33 the whole hand holding mentality is their business model Nov 21 00:59:54 but for the likes of you and i... we have webOS or android Nov 21 01:00:05 and webOS really is the hackers iPhone Nov 21 01:00:21 where android is really a late model windows Nov 21 01:00:34 Nov 21 01:00:35 :) Nov 21 01:08:13 Mugen[home]: I wish more of the platform itself was open-source, though.. enough pieces are (or are user-editable) that we can do a lot, but some are total black boxes Nov 21 01:08:43 yeah, i think we're going to see that change though Nov 21 01:08:53 hp really are embracing the community Nov 21 01:10:19 what I'm seeing, with the switch to anyo I bet we could make an open source platform capable of running palm anyo apps and SDL apps on the pre, if we wanted.. Nov 21 01:13:44 maybe HP will consider opening more of it up at that point Nov 21 01:16:04 i'm better they will Nov 21 01:16:12 *betting Nov 21 01:56:19 hey, anyone on willing to anser a govnah question? Nov 21 01:57:55 if we know the answer. Nov 21 01:58:07 DUNDUNDUN!!!! Nov 21 01:59:34 aximmaxim, go ahead...the 2 main authors of Govnah are @ DevDays Nov 21 02:04:03 orrr not. Nov 21 02:06:38 3 minutes....not anywhere NEAR a record. Nov 21 02:07:11 but he did leave after help was offered.. that's somewhat unusual. Nov 21 02:23:47 blah, timeout Nov 21 02:24:04 I have a sprint pre, newish stock battery Nov 21 02:24:29 it's clocked to 1ghz with uberkernel Nov 21 02:24:39 and govnah, of ourse Nov 21 02:25:09 I'm trying to figure out the best way to balance sped with battery life. Nov 21 02:26:09 I was having trouble with tmc errors last week so I uninstalled and teinstalled the kernel, which shockingly seems to hae helped. Nov 21 02:26:32 but I wanted advice on best settings in gov Nov 21 02:27:30 and what I should expect in terms of battery drainage rate Nov 21 02:35:34 from what I understand, Nov 21 02:35:41 most of the drainage is not from the processor, even when overclocked Nov 21 02:35:53 it's the screen and cell radio Nov 21 02:36:08 especially during low reception Nov 21 02:36:23 I was in the theater last night and my pre was pulling 800+ mA idle on Palm Default Nov 21 02:39:10 torchie: probably just really bad signal from the tower so the phone turned up the radio to broadcast loud enough to be heard. putting the pre in a lead box will drain its battery in no time. Nov 21 02:39:18 YEAH Nov 21 02:39:20 yeah* Nov 21 02:39:52 more idealism Nov 21 02:40:06 wouldn't it be awesome if the next palm phone could have an 1800mah battery in it like the treo did Nov 21 02:40:37 there's an argument for overclocking actually *reducing* battery use Nov 21 02:40:59 since the CPU can process what it needs to and turn the radio off faster Nov 21 02:42:34 torchie: next time you go to that theater, try increasing CPU clock and see how it affects drain Nov 21 02:42:55 hmm Nov 21 02:42:57 (discharge rate) Nov 21 02:43:16 I dunno, if it was the case why wouldn't the cell makers overclock like hell Nov 21 02:44:01 torchie: exceeding manufacturer ratings for a given CPU can reduce its useful life, device builders tend to keep to the datasheets Nov 21 02:44:01 maybe dummies Nov 21 02:44:04 oh yeah Nov 21 02:44:08 there's that too Nov 21 02:44:15 you know what's been annoying lately Nov 21 02:44:37 "pre 2 has a 1GHz processor? LOL I ALREADY HAVE A 1 GHz PRE durr" Nov 21 02:45:15 torchie: sure, pre2's just a *supported * 1GHz (which matters to the people who don't visit this channel) Nov 21 02:45:22 fair enough, but ppl on sprint gotta do something to keep our spirits up Nov 21 02:45:34 1st gen pre for over a year :( Nov 21 02:45:59 destinal: it's a newer generation omap though, it's not like clock speed is the only improvement Nov 21 02:46:09 torchie: also it's a spec bump from the pre+, better camera, glass screen, I forget whether there's more flash than pre+ or same Nov 21 02:46:12 I'm sorry I kept falling off channel, had to d/l wirc, since web irc was going crazy Nov 21 02:46:19 yeah battery life is probably better too at least Nov 21 02:46:41 I just wish there was a front facing camera, gyroscope, and bigger battery Nov 21 02:46:52 also that it was wrought from tank iron and up to military specifications Nov 21 02:47:00 and on sprint :( Nov 21 02:47:15 lol I think I'll skip the tank iron, gotta carry this thing around in a pocket Nov 21 02:48:02 what should I expect in terms of battery life with ev on @ 1ghz, but while not using the phone? Nov 21 02:48:10 yeah, re: sprint, you can always do a comm board swap between a sprint pre and any pre2 and keep two useful devices. of cvourse , there goes your warranty on both.. Nov 21 02:50:48 of course if you can't get a sprint pre, (and they'll stop selling them soon) then it would be tough.. Nov 21 02:52:02 also I'm not sure why sprint wouldn't want to sell any of the pre's. maybe they'll pick up the new devices next year though Nov 21 02:52:23 also, any advice on govnah settings to maintain 1ghz for as long as possible with stock battery? Nov 21 02:52:38 is current thought to use screenstate? Nov 21 02:52:49 I dunno I just want something that never ever breaks Nov 21 02:53:01 I use screenstate and I don't notice a big change in battery life Nov 21 02:53:04 vs stock Nov 21 02:53:06 it'd be nice for the phone I actually enjoy greatly to also last long Nov 21 02:53:15 I wonder Nov 21 02:53:20 if you keep it on fixed speed 800 Nov 21 02:53:24 background idle processing would go faster Nov 21 02:53:27 would the battery last longer then? Nov 21 02:54:08 how long does battery last for you w/screenstate 1ghz... or, better yet, what's the time per % with use and idle? Nov 21 02:54:12 it might — I don't think a lot of people have done the data analysis to say what the best battery life is. Nov 21 02:55:03 I tried it on fixed 1ghz tonight. that went badly, but I left data on in a bad coverage area. Nov 21 02:55:03 (I haven't really, either) Nov 21 02:55:13 I'm not really sure, I'd like a way to just time it from the second I take it off the charger Nov 21 02:55:27 it drop 50% in about 2.25 hours, in my pocket Nov 21 02:55:28 just switched to fixed 800 Nov 21 02:56:01 problem is you have to gather a lot of days worth of data stock and overclocked because any given day you've got a lot of variables Nov 21 02:56:12 yeah Nov 21 02:56:20 screw it let's just get 3400s Nov 21 02:57:18 the OMAP SoC? We have OMAP3430 in original pre, and OMAP3630 in pre2 IIRC Nov 21 02:57:51 ? Nov 21 02:57:54 oh no I meant batteries Nov 21 02:58:02 3400mah big bulgers Nov 21 02:58:10 oh, yeah 3400mAh would probably be very handy ;) Nov 21 02:58:15 $ Nov 21 02:58:18 $$$$$$ Nov 21 02:58:22 or external Nov 21 02:58:47 just carry around a 6cell netbook battery seperately ;) Nov 21 02:59:07 lol Nov 21 02:59:22 I used to think of my macbook as my pre's external battery Nov 21 02:59:29 for a long while I carried both a psp and a palm centro Nov 21 02:59:32 those were the days **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 21 02:59:58 2010