**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 08 02:59:57 2011
Jan 08 03:00:18 <ka6sox> infobot define forever
Jan 08 03:00:19 <infobot> Use ~dict for definitions.
Jan 08 03:00:41 <ka6sox> ~dict forever
Jan 08 03:00:45 <infobot> Dictionary 'forever' (2 of 5): seemingly without interruption; often and repeatedly; "always looking for faults"; "it is always raining"; "he is forever cracking jokes"; "they are forever arguing"  ;; for a limitless time; "no one can live forever"; "brightly beams our Father's mercy from his lighthouse evermore"- P.P.Bliss .
Jan 08 03:04:44 <SineOt> ~dict palm
Jan 08 03:04:47 <infobot> Dictionary 'palm' (1 of 10): \Palm\, n. [AS. palm, L. palma; -- so named fr. the leaf resembling a hand. See 1st {Palm}, and cf. {Pam}.] [1913 Webster] 1. (Bot.) Any endogenous tree of the order {Palm[ae]} or {Palmace[ae]}; a palm tree. [1913 Webster] Note: Palms are perennial woody plants, often of majestic size. The trunk is usually erect and rarely branched, and has a roughened exterior composed of the persistent bases of the leaf stalks. The ...
Jan 08 03:04:58 <SineOt> ;C
Jan 08 07:00:17 <Jack87> its a ghost town in here
Jan 08 07:07:52 <destinal> Jack87: quite
Jan 08 07:08:07 * Jack87 belives people are hiding
Jan 08 07:11:24 <halfhalo> moo?
Jan 08 07:23:35 <gkatsev> meow
Jan 08 07:23:47 <halfhalo> barkbark
Jan 08 07:24:03 <gkatsev> oink
Jan 08 07:24:29 <fahhem> moo
Jan 08 07:24:32 <halfhalo> SQEAL PIGGIE SQEAL
Jan 08 07:24:51 <gkatsev> lol
Jan 08 07:25:08 <gkatsev> fahhem: Error: moo has already been said. Please try again.
Jan 08 07:25:10 <fahhem> i think halfhalo's got some deep seated issues re pigs
Jan 08 07:25:21 <fahhem> chirp chirp
Jan 08 07:28:50 <halfhalo> rawr
Jan 08 08:29:09 <lingfish> Hrm, is there a way to actually download files from gitorious web frontend?
Jan 08 08:29:13 <lingfish> as in, patches?
Jan 08 11:51:27 <Jack87_Sleep> night
Jan 08 13:02:06 <ice8lue> heyho
Jan 08 13:03:02 <fahhem> who you callin' ho?
Jan 08 13:03:29 <Loudergood> hohoho
Jan 08 13:04:04 <fahhem> you're about 2 weeks late santie
Jan 08 13:07:36 <Loudergood> what do you think santa does for 11 months of the year?
Jan 08 15:28:25 <swisstomcat> afternoon
Jan 08 16:11:39 <RagingMind> moof
Jan 08 16:13:13 <Loudergood> foom?
Jan 08 16:26:42 <swisstomcat> meow
Jan 08 17:28:31 <Tibfib> oil: ping
Jan 08 17:31:04 <ka6sox> morning Tibfib
Jan 08 17:31:44 <Tibfib> howdy ka6sox
Jan 08 17:32:49 <ka6sox> ~seen oil
Jan 08 17:33:01 <infobot> oil is currently on #webos-internals, last said: 'he was the only one with power over that server, we had to move it'.
Jan 08 17:33:36 <ka6sox> infobot seems to be having a "slow" morning...needs more caffiene
Jan 08 17:35:08 * ka6sox is in a strange mood today....thinks a decibell is a tenth of a phone company.
Jan 08 17:35:28 <Loudergood> fairpoint?
Jan 08 17:35:30 <decibell> ka6sox lol if only I had that much money
Jan 08 17:37:07 <ka6sox> decibell, don't we all
Jan 08 17:43:26 <ka6sox> I wonder who oil was referring to with "he"..I thought I had the power over the servers.
Jan 08 18:16:05 <coveredwagonkid> good day all
Jan 08 18:18:20 <coveredwagonkid> ive got a couple questions if anyone is around
Jan 08 18:22:18 <coveredwagonkid> well, i'll give an overview for when people are active later on
Jan 08 18:22:33 <coveredwagonkid> two things
Jan 08 18:22:34 <ZehHa> coveredwagonkid: I'm here, but pretty new both to irc and webos-internals. But maybe I can help
Jan 08 18:23:20 <coveredwagonkid> #1 is that preware doesn't seem to be pulling the new palm catalog entries
Jan 08 18:23:40 <coveredwagonkid> #2 is that i cant seem to get openssh to work
Jan 08 18:24:05 <coveredwagonkid> good orning/evening to ya ZehHa
Jan 08 18:25:21 <ZehHa> coveredwagonkid: Is the palm-catalog feed enabled? Takes quite a time. In DE it's > 6000 apps.
Jan 08 18:26:59 <ZehHa> coveredwagonkid: #2 I got openssh to work. It's not that hard.
Jan 08 18:28:10 <coveredwagonkid> as for the app catalog feed, it is enabled, but seems to be missing the pass few days
Jan 08 18:29:16 <coveredwagonkid> as for openssh, i got it installed and can access other machine from my pre, but i cant access my pre from my pc
Jan 08 18:29:42 <coveredwagonkid> i keep getting connection refused, and upstart manager says that mobi.optware.openssh is not running
Jan 08 18:29:47 <ZehHa> Tried reboot, and restart preware?
Jan 08 18:31:10 <coveredwagonkid> the app cat feeds has been going on for a couple day, so i have done a few luna and device restarts
Jan 08 18:31:44 <ZehHa> Where do u live?
Jan 08 18:31:55 <coveredwagonkid> US
Jan 08 18:32:43 <coveredwagonkid> brb
Jan 08 18:35:00 <ZehHa> Just googled. I don't find any msgs about specific US palm catalog problems...
Jan 08 18:36:07 <ZehHa> I your pre's catalog app working?
Jan 08 18:36:28 <ZehHa> "Is"
Jan 08 18:49:53 <halfhalo> coveredwagonkid: Did you set up an ssh key
Jan 08 19:19:05 <coveredwagonkid> halfhalo yes i generated the key follow the directions on the wiki page for openssh
Jan 08 19:20:05 <coveredwagonkid> ZehHa the normal app cat works fine, thats actually how i noticed the issues i was seeing
Jan 08 19:25:24 <ZehHa> coveredwagonkid: If you cannot ssh into your pre, maybe it's not configured as server. Key pair public -> pre, private -> PC.
Jan 08 19:26:50 <coveredwagonkid> the instructions has me move/rename "id_rsa.pub" to "authorized_keys" on device
Jan 08 19:27:12 <ZehHa> Have to leave now!
Jan 08 19:42:46 <coveredwagonkid> to be honest, i only tried access ssh from pc to pre to have that as an option to troubleshoot with the preware/app cat issue
Jan 08 23:15:24 <rwhitby> morning
Jan 08 23:16:02 <SineOt> morning
Jan 08 23:22:11 <lingfish> Morning :)
Jan 08 23:22:20 <lingfish> Does Mojo.Log.info goto /var/log/messages?
Jan 08 23:22:22 <lingfish> I'm thinking no?
Jan 08 23:22:53 <oil> ka6sox: i was talking about when the patch portal was on dbsooners server, he was the only one with power
Jan 08 23:22:57 <oil> Tibfib: pong?
Jan 08 23:23:06 <lingfish> My update to the LED/throbber patch isn't working :/
Jan 08 23:23:24 <oil> lingfish: it does if your device has the log level upped
Jan 08 23:23:30 <oil> or else only Mojo.Log.error shows up
Jan 08 23:23:35 <oil> (it defaults to showing error only)
Jan 08 23:23:40 <lingfish> Yeah that's what I thought.
Jan 08 23:23:56 <lingfish> googling for clues now, as I thought there was something you could run once-off to tail it too
Jan 08 23:25:22 <oil> tail -f /var/log/messages?
Jan 08 23:25:40 <lingfish> nah I mean for info, without changing syslog level.
Jan 08 23:26:48 <oil> PmLogCtl set LunaSysMgrJS debug
Jan 08 23:26:56 <oil> changes it so info is shown
Jan 08 23:27:06 <lingfish> ta.
Jan 08 23:27:15 <oil> (i think thats it anyways)
Jan 08 23:33:13 <lingfish> could the context be com.palm.email instead?
Jan 08 23:34:43 <lingfish> So that I don't get INFO level for everything, but just com.palm.email instead?
Jan 08 23:36:23 <lingfish> maybe just easier to use palm-log ?
Jan 08 23:46:13 <oil> palm-log basically does that and changes the log level for everything
Jan 08 23:46:19 <oil> well, for lunasysmgrjs
Jan 08 23:46:21 <oil> which is all the mojo apps
Jan 08 23:46:35 <oil> but it greps out that apps id
Jan 08 23:57:20 <tmandry> dtzWill: don't guess you found out anything about the Qt problem while I was gone?
Jan 08 23:59:20 <lingfish> oil: yep nice.  Bizarre.  the throbbing stuff isn't even called anymore it seems by email, yet it throbs.
Jan 09 00:11:19 <lingfish> question: in a typical applications/.../app/controllers subdir, does everything in that subdir just get loaded?
Jan 09 00:12:14 <lingfish> reason I ask is that I've been patching for email/LED notifs, and left the original email-dashboard-assistant.js in there but with _2.0.1 on the end of the filename... and I think it plus my patched version is being loaded/instantiated...
Jan 09 00:12:25 <oil> in /sources.json
Jan 09 00:12:28 <oil> it lists things to be loaded
Jan 09 00:12:38 <lingfish> Right, I vaguely recalled that too, ta.
Jan 09 00:13:45 <lingfish> hah, email-dashboard-assistant.js isn't even listed anymore!
Jan 09 00:13:50 <lingfish> Can someone confirm that it was on 1.4.5?
Jan 09 00:14:22 <lingfish> I don't have 1.4.5 laying around anywher
Jan 09 00:15:22 * oil would if he wasn't on his way out the door
Jan 09 00:35:13 <coveredwagonkid> hello all
Jan 09 00:37:25 <coveredwagonkid> i posed a couple questions earlier in the day, but it seemed as though most werent around...
Jan 09 01:08:38 <coveredwagonkid> anyone awake and active?
Jan 09 01:10:45 <Loudergood> yes and no
Jan 09 01:11:04 <Loudergood> I'm here but I should be working on other things
Jan 09 01:12:14 <coveredwagonkid> Loudergood fair enough
Jan 09 01:14:26 <rick-nook> I'm up
Jan 09 01:15:25 <rick-nook> Sort of.  Sitting on the couch watching tv with my nook color.
Jan 09 01:15:47 <coveredwagonkid> rick-nook how familiar are you with either preware's app catalog feed issues or openssh issues?
Jan 09 01:16:18 <rwhitby> what issues?
Jan 09 01:16:43 <rick-nook> Not very.
Jan 09 01:16:48 <coveredwagonkid> rwhitby sorry, that probably came off wrong
Jan 09 01:16:59 <coveredwagonkid> i am experiencing an issue
Jan 09 01:17:02 <rick-nook> OK try again
Jan 09 01:17:38 <coveredwagonkid> official app catalog feed within preware doesnt seem to be pulling the latest and greatest package list
Jan 09 01:18:44 <rick-nook> What was your ssh problem?
Jan 09 01:19:57 <coveredwagonkid> rick-nook after following the directions from the wiki article, putty throws a connection refused error
Jan 09 01:21:02 <rick-nook> You installed optware and can't ssh into the pre?
Jan 09 01:21:54 <coveredwagonkid> correct
Jan 09 01:22:09 <coveredwagonkid> i can ssh out from my pre, but not in
Jan 09 01:22:23 <rick-nook> Ok.
Jan 09 01:22:26 <coveredwagonkid> also, sprint pre 1.4.5
Jan 09 01:22:40 <rick-nook> Should work
Jan 09 01:22:57 <rick-nook> In pressed install openssh
Jan 09 01:23:08 <rick-nook> In preware
Jan 09 01:23:55 <rick-nook> Have to train this new kb about the words I use
Jan 09 01:24:02 <coveredwagonkid> openssh v5.3.1-5 was installed via preware
Jan 09 01:24:16 <torchie> dhpc server is unlit
Jan 09 01:24:24 <rick-nook> Weird
Jan 09 01:24:34 <coveredwagonkid> and ive got optware bootstrap v1.5.2 installed
Jan 09 01:24:47 <rick-nook> What is the pre's ip?
Jan 09 01:24:47 <torchie> dhcp*
Jan 09 01:25:35 <coveredwagonkid> another thing i noticed was the in upstart manager, mobi.optware.openssh isnt running
Jan 09 01:26:20 <coveredwagonkid> if i try to manually start, it just sits as "pre-start"
Jan 09 01:26:24 <rick-nook> Hmmmm what happens if you run openssh by hand?
Jan 09 01:26:32 <rick-nook> Ok
Jan 09 01:26:58 <coveredwagonkid> i manually try by tapping on it from within upstart manager
Jan 09 01:27:37 <rick-nook> Need rwhitby or destinal or someone else.
Jan 09 01:28:43 <coveredwagonkid> thanks for trying
Jan 09 01:28:54 <rick-nook> Sokay
Jan 09 01:30:34 <rwhitby> novaterm in, start mobi.optware.openssh, check /var/log/messages
Jan 09 01:30:53 <rwhitby> once it's running there ok, use ssh -v on the client to see what's wrong connecting to it
Jan 09 01:32:38 <tmandry> rwhitby: am I correct in understanding that you were involved in the qt port?
Jan 09 01:33:14 <rwhitby> tmandry: not really.  I helped package it, but didn't work on the port at all.
Jan 09 01:33:55 <tmandry> rwhitby: ok.. well all the same do you think you could shed some light on what might be going on in this backtrace?
Jan 09 01:34:00 <tmandry> http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/jJj2jkGT
Jan 09 01:34:48 <tmandry> rwhitby: I'm not really sure where all the SDL or main loop stuff comes from, there isn't really any code I can find that does it..
Jan 09 01:35:05 <tmandry> in qt or the plugin
Jan 09 01:35:28 <tmandry> is this something that all webOS apps have or anything like that?
Jan 09 01:36:16 <rwhitby> dunno
Jan 09 01:36:26 <tmandry> k, IO
Jan 09 01:36:32 <tmandry> I'll just keep looking* :p
Jan 09 01:46:04 <torchie> lol
Jan 09 01:46:13 <torchie> I like how the changelog advance button has changed to "yeah, yeah, whatever"
Jan 09 01:47:05 * rwhitby bbl
Jan 09 01:48:50 <tmandry> rwhitby: and all signs point to Qt being broken on current webOS (1.4.5)
Jan 09 01:49:34 <Loudergood> last I heard that was due to the jailing
Jan 09 01:50:23 <torchie> :(
Jan 09 01:50:52 <Loudergood> just build the libs into your application ;)
Jan 09 01:50:54 <tmandry> Loudergood: well, at least with the Qt libs I compiled myself, it's due to a race condition on initialization in Qt (and/or the webos plugin) that causes a segfault
Jan 09 01:51:09 <Loudergood> oh I see
Jan 09 01:51:40 <tmandry> so next.. I have to find out why ;)
Jan 09 02:12:38 <Tibfib> oil: ping
Jan 09 02:12:44 <oil> hey
Jan 09 02:13:21 <Tibfib> wanna chat preware ui?
Jan 09 02:13:46 <oil> like what?
Jan 09 02:15:08 <Tibfib> well, I think the categories scene could be bypassed in a lot of items
Jan 09 02:15:41 <Tibfib> dang, there's a lot of either or options that you could do
Jan 09 02:16:13 <oil> lol
Jan 09 02:16:53 <halfhalo> Moo
Jan 09 02:17:16 <Tibfib> like the patches one, that should just push to the list, with the drop down arrow usable
Jan 09 02:17:36 <Tibfib> the apps one is a tad tougher because of the feed setting
Jan 09 02:17:46 <destinal> rwhitby: any way to clean out the  download manager?  I have a preware stuck there I can't get rid of
Jan 09 02:17:53 <destinal> from metadoc
Jan 09 02:18:10 <Tibfib> oil: also, I would appreciate an "all" option for "other"
Jan 09 02:18:38 <Tibfib> oil: and the "other" command menu items should be switched
Jan 09 02:18:54 <Tibfib> or the "apps" command menu items should
Jan 09 02:18:58 <Tibfib> so they are consistent
Jan 09 02:19:11 <Tibfib> installed packages and package updates could be rolled into one
Jan 09 02:19:24 <Tibfib> as well as saved packages list
Jan 09 02:20:05 <oil> did you look at the code?
Jan 09 02:20:17 <Tibfib> just a tad, been looking more at UI stuff
Jan 09 02:20:43 <oil> ah
Jan 09 02:21:04 <Tibfib> tapping the title for apps,patches,other could have a popup to swap between apps/patches/other
Jan 09 02:21:04 <oil> well the saved package list / installed list / updates list / anywhere there is a list of packages, is one scene
Jan 09 02:21:58 <Tibfib> preware could do a installed packages a la 1.4.5 catalog
Jan 09 02:22:09 <Tibfib> and do updates similarly
Jan 09 02:22:36 <Tibfib> and if you want it as a command menu icon as the main page, you could have a little bubble signifying the amount of updates available
Jan 09 02:22:45 <Tibfib> icon *on the main page
Jan 09 02:24:43 <Tibfib> any thoughts? clarifaction needed?
Jan 09 02:25:06 <oil> it just depends if we want to change the main scene a lot or not
Jan 09 02:25:21 <oil> there was an original design mockup which i designed it from
Jan 09 02:26:28 <Tibfib> do most people turn "show available types" on?
Jan 09 02:26:37 <oil> that was a battle
Jan 09 02:26:38 <oil> lol
Jan 09 02:26:41 <oil> i do
Jan 09 02:26:43 <Tibfib> I always have
Jan 09 02:26:46 <oil> because i liked it the old way
Jan 09 02:27:35 <oil> well, then turned them all on and themes off
Jan 09 02:27:40 <oil> :)
Jan 09 02:28:57 <Tibfib> I would vote for on a revised UI: "Apps, Patches, Other, Everything". then if you want a list item for installed packages, or a command menu items
Jan 09 02:28:59 <Tibfib> item*
Jan 09 02:29:33 <oil> you should whip up some mockups that can be discussed with more of webosinternals :)
Jan 09 02:29:43 <Tibfib> hmm, how ?
Jan 09 02:29:53 <Tibfib> not saying I have no idea, just what would be preferred?
Jan 09 02:29:57 <coveredwagonkid> question: looking at ipkg.preware.org/feeds/ it looks like the packages haven't been updated since jan 6
Jan 09 02:30:01 <coveredwagonkid> is that normal?
Jan 09 02:30:14 <coveredwagonkid> sorry, for the app cat
Jan 09 02:30:31 <oil> just mock one up in photoshop?
Jan 09 02:30:32 <oil> an image
Jan 09 02:31:02 <Tibfib> heheh, I have terrible photo shop skills, but I'll try
Jan 09 02:31:19 <rick-nook> Rincon draw mockups on paper and photo them
Jan 09 02:32:01 <rick-nook> Tibfib no big deal mockups should be simple
Jan 09 02:32:10 * oil is looking for originals
Jan 09 02:32:24 <Tibfib> can't draw well either. :)
Jan 09 02:33:04 <oil> http://www.webos-internals.org/images/5/57/OPS_App_Mockup1.png
Jan 09 02:33:13 <rick-nook> Neither can i.  Doesn't matter. See preware originals on wiki
Jan 09 02:37:05 <Tibfib> alrighty, mockking it up
Jan 09 02:38:29 <lingfish> ugh.. why does the search in Palm/HP's forums not work, at all, ever.
Jan 09 02:38:47 <lingfish> annoying.
Jan 09 02:40:12 <Tibfib> I'm going to bet it'll be faster for me to code what I want it to look like than mock it up
Jan 09 02:42:35 <Tibfib> oil: btw, you could easily do the count stuff with list formatters, no need to run your loop
Jan 09 02:42:58 <oil> things could certainly be improved :)
Jan 09 02:43:20 <rick-nook> Tibfib just scribble.  I can't find those early preware mockups
Jan 09 02:43:41 <Tibfib> no, I'm not kidding, It'll be faster to code it and ss. I'm almost done
Jan 09 02:43:46 <rick-nook> But we just drew on four by six cards
Jan 09 02:44:19 <rick-nook> Kk
Jan 09 02:49:35 <rwhitby> destinal: remove the installHistory.db
Jan 09 02:50:24 <destinal> rwhitby: cool, thanks
Jan 09 02:55:00 <Tibfib> http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/Tibfib/preware_mockup1.png
Jan 09 02:55:13 <Tibfib> a better icon could be used if someone has it
Jan 09 02:55:21 <Tibfib> or it could be another list item
Jan 09 02:56:20 <torchie> what's the shopping bag icon do
Jan 09 02:56:27 <Tibfib> take you to installed packages
Jan 09 02:56:30 <torchie> ah I see
Jan 09 02:56:43 <Tibfib> which would replace the "updates" list item
Jan 09 02:56:55 <torchie> the gift-box icon
Jan 09 02:57:01 <torchie> boom easily understood
Jan 09 02:57:04 <torchie> gift box? updates!
Jan 09 02:57:08 <torchie> or maybe gift box? gifts!
Jan 09 02:57:14 <torchie> given on a user's competency with webos
Jan 09 02:57:21 <Tibfib> well it is more of a list of installed packages, where you get updates too
Jan 09 02:57:53 <Tibfib> you could have a little icon on top of the menu icon to signify available updates, lemme see if I can find a ss
Jan 09 02:58:26 <SineOt> just make it say "Updates"
Jan 09 02:58:27 <Tibfib> huzzah, http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/Tibfib/mojo%20messenger/menubarissue.png here's a sample. top right
Jan 09 02:58:29 <Loudergood> presents?
Jan 09 02:58:34 <SineOt> with a number bubble
Jan 09 02:58:45 <Tibfib> that's an ugly screen shot, but you get the number bubble
Jan 09 02:59:05 <Tibfib> SineOt: it isn't for updates by itself. It is exactly like the catalog app list
Jan 09 02:59:09 <Tibfib> installed app list
Jan 09 02:59:34 <torchie> yeah I was thinking
Jan 09 02:59:41 <torchie> updates - applications - everything - other
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 09 02:59:58 2011