**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 27 02:59:57 2011 Jan 27 03:00:22 then remove the kernel, reboot again. install palm stock kernel Jan 27 03:01:13 shouldn't uninstalling the f14 just leave me with the palm kernel? Jan 27 03:01:24 or do i have to uninstall one, then install the other? Jan 27 03:01:45 govnah is showing that the current kernel is f14-8 Jan 27 03:02:34 no, you have to re-install the palm kernel as far as I know Jan 27 03:02:54 uninstalling F14, ideally, will put you back with the stock Palm Kernel Jan 27 03:03:28 Is it ok to skip uninstalling the f14 and just install the stock palm then? Jan 27 03:04:12 note that govnah shows the currently *active* kernel, which may or may not be the same as the kernel you just installed or uninstalled, until you reboot. Jan 27 03:04:30 You should end up with stock either way, but uninstalling F14 is probably the easiest way Jan 27 03:12:05 stock kernel reinstalled Jan 27 03:12:36 should i try my luck again with f14, or is it likely that my device just plain can't handle it? Jan 27 03:12:36 dtzWill: ping Jan 27 03:40:26 yay just +'d my sprint pre!!! thanks internals Jan 27 03:42:10 +'d? Jan 27 03:42:19 Sprint Pre+ Jan 27 03:43:58 how did internals help? did you swap comm boards? Jan 27 03:47:09 yup Jan 27 03:47:27 well they pretty much made everything to make it happen Jan 27 04:03:14 metadoc! Jan 27 04:17:23 DaDirtyPanda: really you sprintified your plus, yeah? Jan 27 04:17:55 I've heard "plusing a pre" but it doesnt make sense since you don't really use the pre- Jan 27 04:18:07 right you Sprintify your Plus Jan 27 04:20:19 I have a pre+ with severe frontal damage that is being shipped to me, I'm thinking about swapping omap boards to upgrade a pre- , that might be plussing a pre.. downside is I'll probably have to extend / replace the antenna wire, or actually I guess if I move comm board too then I won't Jan 27 04:20:31 err keep sprint comm board that is Jan 27 04:38:08 yup yup i did Jan 27 04:38:50 I tried to install sr71, same results, a device that won't boot. This time, when booting while plugged in, it sometimes worked, but I had 4 of 6 launcher pages completely blank. Jan 27 04:45:43 including no way to access Preware to uninstall the kernel Jan 27 04:46:04 time to see the doc Jan 27 04:47:43 cwgtex! nooooo Jan 27 04:47:45 just memboot! Jan 27 04:47:59 if you have the doctor, in webOS.tar I think, you can get the full kernel uimage Jan 27 04:48:09 memboot that and then go into Preware, uninstall Jan 27 04:48:11 way easier Jan 27 04:53:07 crap too late I'm at 24% on the doctor Jan 27 04:53:50 Tell you what I'll try to install F14 again after the doctor, and if the same thing happens, I'll try out the memboot stuff. Jan 27 04:54:16 sorry I didn't see your reply right away Jan 27 04:54:30 yeah since I realized that you can memboot the full stock kernel and not just the install one that only gets you novaterm... Makes recovering from test kernels a lot easier Jan 27 04:56:36 Sine0t does memboot erase your usb drive? Jan 27 04:58:16 SineOt I believe I saw that on the wiki Jan 27 04:58:17 nope Jan 27 04:58:26 all it does is boot the device with the kernel you feed it Jan 27 04:58:28 bbl Jan 27 04:59:17 hmmm Jan 27 04:59:35 The webos-internals wiki section on memboot starts off with "note that this will completely and utterly destroy all data on the USB drive" Jan 27 04:59:54 unless I am looking in the wrong place Jan 27 05:00:13 cwgtex: you are Jan 27 05:00:39 yeah, I've membooted my Pre and Pixi a number of times now and it doesn't touch the USB partition Jan 27 05:01:04 cwgtex: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery -- the section under "Alternative Recovery" Jan 27 05:01:39 guess the wiki needs updating Jan 27 05:02:19 however that is the part of the wiki that talks about the webosdoctor failing because of a corrupt usb drive Jan 27 05:02:30 is there another part of the wiki specifically for memboot? Jan 27 05:02:37 cwgtex: did you read what I just wrote? Jan 27 05:03:08 Yeah if it's corrupt, you will wipe everything... Since that's how you get rid of the corruption Jan 27 05:03:37 cwgtex: cwgtex: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Last_Resort_Emergency_BootLoader_Recovery -- the section under "Alternative Recovery" Jan 27 05:03:39 ^^ Jan 27 05:03:44 Honestly if anything needs updating though it should be that the Alternative Recovery should y'know, mention that you can boot the full kernel! Jan 27 05:03:44 is the correct place Jan 27 05:03:50 you were in the wrong place Jan 27 05:04:03 And not have to dick with trying to fix things (like a bad kernel install) via the command line, and can instead just do it through Preware Jan 27 05:04:17 SineOt: ah, rather than booting the recovery image, just boot the stock kernel? Jan 27 05:04:24 yeah, that's what I've done before Jan 27 05:04:28 well the same novacom boot mem:// < nova-installer-image-castle.uImage Jan 27 05:04:35 because it basically gives you, well, a working Pre Jan 27 05:04:37 works just use the other uImage Jan 27 05:04:40 yeah Jan 27 05:04:48 you can use the full uImage, and not just the installer one Jan 27 05:05:14 and it gives you a GUI and everything, which is, well, way easier for most things people would need to recover from, since you can launch and uninstall things via Preware Jan 27 05:05:26 not sure if membooting the full kernel gives you Novaterm access though Jan 27 05:05:34 SineOt: it should Jan 27 05:05:44 if they had dev mode enabled before Jan 27 05:05:54 ah, true Jan 27 05:06:11 then in reality, it's probably even better to boot the full kernel than to just boot the installer image Jan 27 05:06:20 if your system isn't hosed Jan 27 05:06:27 you get GUI + Novaterm instead of just Novaterm Jan 27 05:06:31 ie if only the kernel is bad Jan 27 05:06:52 and isn't that where the doctor comes in? :P Jan 27 05:07:03 SineOt: I've had things I've fixed using the install image Jan 27 05:07:14 that didn't need doctor and that booting the stock kernel wouldn't have fixed Jan 27 05:07:18 like what? (I'm actually curious) Jan 27 05:07:46 I tried swapping out some kernel modules once, another time I broke an upstart script Jan 27 05:08:39 well, rather-I guess saying "try booting the full kernel" should be the first thing on that list Jan 27 05:08:42 if you're not very familiar with fixing broken linux systems it's best to just doctor but for me fixing it by hand was faster and less work Jan 27 05:08:50 instead of doctoring, and then booting the pure novaterm installer image Jan 27 05:09:07 SineOt: why would you do both? Jan 27 05:09:16 SineOt: it's one or the other Jan 27 05:09:37 what do you mean? Jan 27 05:09:57 either doctor, which wipes everything and you're back to normal, or installer image, that lets you mess with things in a "linux rescue" type fashion Jan 27 05:11:40 yeah i definitely think i should learn this memboot recovery style Jan 27 05:12:13 why? because if you're like cwgtex, you don't have instructions for an "easy" way to get back to normal without needing to fix from the command line, or wipe with a doctor (since 2.0 apparently wipes the USB partition again...) Jan 27 05:12:14 cwgtex: if you have kernel issues, really, booting the stock kernel uImage is gonna be the easiest fix Jan 27 05:12:45 as opposed to the installer image Jan 27 05:12:52 they are both in doctor Jan 27 05:12:54 gotcha Jan 27 05:13:00 (just need to extract) Jan 27 05:14:03 SineOt: still, it's one or the other, not both Jan 27 05:14:18 since f14 and sr71 both went screwball on me, I guess my pre2 is a little weak Jan 27 05:14:36 if you say so Jan 27 05:14:38 cwgtex: that _is_ strange. Jan 27 05:14:55 SineOt: doctor uses the installer image and then drives it. novacom booting it by hand just lets you do stuff by hand instead Jan 27 05:14:58 well, yeah, there you go: on a pre2, doctoring will wipe the USB partition, won't it? Jan 27 05:15:17 SineOt: I'm not sure Jan 27 05:15:34 I think the current 2.0 doctors wipe the USB partition Jan 27 05:15:50 SineOt: at any rate we should put somewhere that if you're having problems with a kernel specifically, you should novacom boot the stock kenrel Jan 27 05:15:52 there was some bit on Precentral about it Jan 27 05:15:56 that's the only thing it would fix though Jan 27 05:17:06 I'd wager a guess that OC kernel recovery is probably the main reason people hit that page, so it's probably worth adding Jan 27 05:17:40 SineOt: agreedf Jan 27 05:18:00 SineOt: I think filesystem corruption is another major cause Jan 27 05:18:17 but broken kernels is probably a big one Jan 27 05:18:44 probably, but with Filesystem corruption you're going to hose your USB partition anyways Jan 27 05:18:59 what are we talking about? Jan 27 05:19:16 and since no ones know if later 2.x doctors will keep up the trend of wiping USB again, membooting stock for kernel recovery will at least help safeguard against that Jan 27 05:19:32 since I imagine a lot of people aren't overclocking only their "dev" devices, if they even have one... :p Jan 27 05:20:00 I was.. but decided to not anymore Jan 27 05:20:01 SineOt: yeah sure but you can actually *fix* the media FS sometimes Jan 27 05:20:14 with booting the installer image Jan 27 05:20:18 instructions for that would probably be awesome too Jan 27 05:20:32 yay new wiki page Jan 27 05:20:35 haha Jan 27 05:20:41 unless it's supposed to fix them when you mount the disks, etc Jan 27 05:21:21 PatrickC_Pre: I don't overclock my dev device, but I do overclock my personal one Jan 27 05:21:56 this kinda bums me out, my pre plus overclocked like a champ Jan 27 05:21:59 If I'm using something for development testing... I want it close to stock so I can at least gauge if it's terrible or not Jan 27 05:22:13 I don't overclock my dev anymore. but I do on my personal Jan 27 05:22:54 Yeah pretty much. Pixi at 806mhz (won't boot 900, don't ask...) and my Pre+ gets to hum along at the stock 500 or whatever. Jan 27 05:23:14 cwgtex: well, pre2's already at 1000 stock, so it's not a huge deal, right? :) Jan 27 05:23:39 pssh, 1400 is a huge deal :p Jan 27 05:23:49 so, they have a kernel for he pixi that does 900? Jan 27 05:24:13 No, 806 is the fastest. Jan 27 05:24:21 I think some testing devices hit 900, but it's rare. Jan 27 05:24:42 destinal: true, but still, when i see 1.4 i want it lol Jan 27 05:25:15 500 -> 1ghz is way more important for me personally and that's solid on every pre- I've tried it on Jan 27 05:26:18 I wish that OndemandTCL would get back ported to the Pre. Jan 27 05:26:26 I can't wait to see what kinda hardware the new feb9 smartphone will have Jan 27 05:26:45 I think it's going to be Broadway... Which personally, has me excited! :p Jan 27 05:27:08 it will let us know if hp is serious about keeping palm products competitive Jan 27 05:27:14 SineOt: palm released the pre2 kernel source already obviously and some people have gotten it working on pre- / pre+ to some degree at least Jan 27 05:27:25 well thanks for the help guys, im going to bed Jan 27 05:27:37 more pre2 hackery tomorrow Jan 27 05:32:59 so, what's up? Jan 27 05:33:11 not much. Designing glyphs. Hating a lot of them P: Jan 27 05:33:24 lol Jan 27 05:33:50 It can be hard to get some things across in 80x80 pixels Jan 27 05:33:59 who on here do I contact about bugs in IRC (as the channel didn't help) Jan 27 05:34:12 you mean in wIRC? Jan 27 05:34:20 yea Jan 27 05:34:25 sorry lol Jan 27 05:34:33 oil or PuffTheMagic Jan 27 05:34:37 ok Jan 27 05:34:40 thx Jan 27 05:34:59 there is no bugs, psh Jan 27 05:35:28 lol Jan 27 05:35:50 oil: PM me please Jan 27 05:36:01 * halfhalo laughs Jan 27 05:36:05 pm? Jan 27 05:36:18 just say what you got to say Jan 27 05:36:32 never mind. Jan 27 05:37:00 kinda can't out in the open :p Jan 27 05:37:21 so subtle Jan 27 05:37:36 I know :) Jan 27 05:39:33 is anyone on a Pre2? Jan 27 05:39:48 does wIRC work in 2.0? Jan 27 05:39:54 yes Jan 27 05:39:56 yeah, pretty sure Jan 27 05:39:56 yes Jan 27 05:40:04 there is a few issues, but it works Jan 27 05:40:12 (like card stacking) Jan 27 05:40:45 I'm having more then a few :p Jan 27 05:40:57 I'll tell you over PM Jan 27 05:41:09 and sometimes it wont relaunch Jan 27 05:41:39 this is why i dont do support Jan 27 05:41:56 I get the not-relaunching problem at least once a day Jan 27 05:41:59 why lol Jan 27 05:42:04 bugs Jan 27 05:42:22 use jstop to kill it Jan 27 05:42:25 then it works Jan 27 05:42:31 and have to remove it, then re-install it, then al is well in the wIRC world Jan 27 05:42:43 oh I'll have to try that Jan 27 05:42:51 or reboot Jan 27 05:42:56 oil, if I designed you a literal bug, would you add it to wIRC as an easter egg to have climb around on the screen? P: Jan 27 05:42:59 but reinstalling is lol Jan 27 05:43:13 but it stacks fine for me Jan 27 05:43:30 I mean, you mentioned stacks problems. just sayin Jan 27 05:43:32 not if you auto-join more then one channel on connect Jan 27 05:43:44 does it split the stacks if you do that? Jan 27 05:43:47 uhoh Jan 27 05:43:48 yeah Jan 27 05:43:52 ohhh, I don't autojoin Jan 27 05:43:53 * wgreenhouse auto-joins zillions of channels in 1.4.5 Jan 27 05:44:01 because there is no "active" card when the new one is launched Jan 27 05:44:06 wirc connects to bitlbee, oftc, and freenode via ZNC for me Jan 27 05:44:12 * halfhalo laughs at people who use witc Jan 27 05:44:20 cause its that awesome Jan 27 05:44:34 well, besides the plugin problem Jan 27 05:44:43 halfhalo: I've got irssi on here too, I mix it up a bit Jan 27 05:44:45 and the other issues Jan 27 05:44:54 irssi doesn't seem to hold connections as well for me Jan 27 05:44:55 wha there is no other big issues Jan 27 05:45:06 there are ALWAYS other issues Jan 27 05:45:12 "mah staaaaacks" q_q Jan 27 05:45:20 big issues Jan 27 05:45:39 "mah stacks could reach the moon therefore they are biiiiig" q_q Jan 27 05:45:57 * wgreenhouse spends most of his time in webos using wirc and spaz, probably Jan 27 05:46:14 when I open wirc in jstop, there r 3 files Jan 27 05:46:18 "oil i am going to send you support emails that are nothing but crudely drawn ascii art genitials, 1 star won't install" q_q Jan 27 05:46:30 :/ Jan 27 05:46:38 PatrickC_Pixi: swipe-delete them all Jan 27 05:46:52 * SineOt is just teasing oil! Jan 27 05:46:55 ok. next time it happens, I will Jan 27 05:47:11 lol Jan 27 05:47:49 lol, didn't even know my other phone was connected :p Jan 27 05:48:17 * oil just typed pat Jan 27 05:48:40 or in wirc, meta+orange Jan 27 05:49:52 * oil has plans to make that more better Jan 27 05:50:22 thats not saying much Jan 27 05:50:34 what, because anything is better? Jan 27 05:50:55 * halfhalo dunnos hes not paying attenting Jan 27 05:51:00 wait, are you talking abt wIRC? lol Jan 27 05:51:18 weren't we? Jan 27 05:51:34 haha I thot so Jan 27 05:51:42 I was talking about Law and Order this entire time Jan 27 05:52:03 I was wondering.... lol Jan 27 05:52:07 (There is a dude... A dude who wrote and produced a few episodes... That dude's name... Is SPEED WEED) Jan 27 05:52:10 * halfhalo was talking about applejuice Jan 27 05:52:16 SPEED WEED. That is a real person's name Jan 27 05:52:28 I love that movie halfhalo! Jan 27 05:52:58 Speed. Weed. Jan 27 05:53:21 no. applejuice Jan 27 05:56:28 * PatrickC_Pre says nite ;) Jan 27 05:56:38 cyall later Jan 27 06:59:38 hey guys Jan 27 06:59:44 so I made my first program Jan 27 07:01:21 yay Jan 27 07:08:23 where do i go from here? Jan 27 07:08:57 i'm trying to create a grid with x/y inputs Jan 27 07:09:17 where I don't know what I could measure the x/y of the screen... Jan 27 07:09:39 320x400? Jan 27 07:09:48 or is it not sensitive per pixle? Jan 27 14:00:38 hi i'm new developer from italy ! :D Jan 27 14:05:46 I created a patch to increase the volume of 9dB Palm Pre 2 version 2.0.0 and 2.0.1 I want if possible a guide to create the patch file and the ipk file for posting it on feed preware Jan 27 14:06:03 can someone help me? Jan 27 14:06:54 can someone help me? Jan 27 14:07:21 For now, the patch I made by hand directly on the phone unix.... my contact is fabio.gatto@live.it (MSN/FB) Jan 27 14:07:31 fabionios@gmail.com GTALK Jan 27 15:57:10 wante to say thanks for Bypas Pin patch for 2.0 Jan 27 16:44:03 hello webos-internals! Jan 27 16:44:06 how's it goin? Jan 27 16:59:02 does P|C have a IRC channel? Jan 27 17:03:14 Who knows about the launcher restore details in save/restore Jan 27 17:31:28 ok so I think I'm going to want to look into canvas stuff Jan 27 18:28:12 just so everyone knows the pre2 2.0.1 doctor does NOT wipe the usb drive Jan 27 18:42:07 added to wiki Jan 27 19:01:32 cwgtex: probably it would only wipe usb if you were going from 1.4.5 to 2.0 which wouldn't make sense for a pre2 Jan 27 19:03:34 yeah thats how i added the info to the wiki Jan 27 19:03:54 "Using a 2.0 doctor will wipe your usb partition, unless you already have 2.0 on your device. For example, 1.4.5 > 2.0.1 will wipe usb, but 2.0.0 > 2.0.1 will not." Jan 27 19:04:55 cwgtex: excellent Jan 27 19:05:34 I am all for getting the wiki as informative as possible Jan 27 19:06:30 destinal: weren't we talking with SineOt yesterday about adding a wiki page just for using memboot as a kernel recovery tool? Jan 27 19:06:48 possibly? I'll write it if need be P: Jan 27 19:07:09 cwgtex: I think we should unify the recovery stuff Jan 27 19:07:13 too many pages Jan 27 19:07:14 you ever get your Pre2 back up to running, cwgtex? Jan 27 19:07:35 yes, yes i did Jan 27 19:07:45 posted about it in the f14 thread on pc Jan 27 19:07:58 but i think i had "unset cfq io" patch before Jan 27 19:08:09 i have no idea why but i think i remember installing it Jan 27 19:08:27 after doctoring, my pre2 took f14 like a champ Jan 27 19:08:31 it runs great Jan 27 19:08:59 I think there's some bugs with other kernels/earlier kernels having the CFQ IO hardcoded, so that patch removes the hard coding (that's my understanding) Jan 27 19:09:18 but that's good to know! Jan 27 19:09:42 SineOtter: this is the first time i've used anything other than uber, so i really have no idea why i installed that patch Jan 27 19:09:52 maybe i was drunk and thought it sounded cool Jan 27 19:10:23 lol Jan 27 19:10:41 I have it installed on Warthog right now, because I think Warthog is one of the ones that recomends that patch Jan 27 19:13:19 i guess it works out that i doctored instead of membooting, because then i wouldn't have had to reinstall my patches, and i wouldn't have noticed the description saying not to use it with Fxxx kernels Jan 27 19:13:40 F14 is real nice Jan 27 19:13:48 i named my profile "maverick" Jan 27 19:14:15 cwgtex: heh, re the recent "unstable as iceman" quote? Jan 27 19:17:23 haha Jan 27 19:18:14 have yall ever seen the internet clip with quentin tarantino talking about why top gun is gay? Jan 27 19:18:32 no I didn't Jan 27 19:18:37 cwgtex: I haven't. Jan 27 19:19:36 sorry getting off topic but i'll post the link if you want Jan 27 19:19:41 its hilarious Jan 27 19:24:54 basically tarantino is explaining why top gun is literally about homosexuality Jan 27 19:25:22 i wouldn't be able to watch the real movie now without laughing Jan 27 19:29:28 anyways the f14 kernel is nice Jan 27 19:29:57 proves that even the 1GHz Pre2 has room for improvement Jan 27 19:32:18 there's always room for improvement, regardless of how fast it runs :] Jan 27 19:35:27 I can't wait for feb 9th Jan 27 19:36:11 even though a phone is so much more than just proc gigahertz, the majority of consumers will use that to compare phones Jan 27 19:36:19 what's febuary 9th Jan 27 19:36:33 hp needs to prove that they are serious about competing with android Jan 27 19:37:13 Broadway! Jan 27 19:37:18 I want to see Broadway Jan 27 19:37:24 that phone has me all aflutter Jan 27 19:37:38 i hope they retain the pre form factor, just a little bigger Jan 27 19:38:02 a slab will be nice and sell very well, but i want a hardware keyboard Jan 27 19:38:44 Broadway is apparently a super small form factor slider Jan 27 19:39:30 is anyone familiar with equipment replacement Jan 27 19:39:32 I've loved the Pixi better than the Pre since well, ever P: so the thought of a Pixi successor interests me way more than any Pre successor Jan 27 19:39:38 the palm pre is EOL, will i get a pre2 if i need to replace it? Jan 27 19:39:44 ShadeS: depends on the carrier Jan 27 19:39:47 sprint Jan 27 19:39:51 and no, you'll more than likely get a Pre Jan 27 19:40:03 that's lame Jan 27 19:40:06 just because it's EOL doesn't mean they don't have a backstock just for device replacement Jan 27 19:40:22 boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Jan 27 19:40:40 every carrier ever has done that P: Jan 27 19:40:50 BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Jan 27 19:40:55 8 C Jan 27 19:41:36 besides... Sprint doesn't even have the Pre2! Jan 27 19:41:44 what? Jan 27 19:41:45 who does? Jan 27 19:42:16 well uh, Verizon is the only US carrier who's supposed to get it, but they haven't yet Jan 27 19:42:29 and you can use the unlocked GSM Pre2 on ATT and Tmo. Jan 27 19:42:31 grrrrrrrr Jan 27 19:42:36 And Rogers offers it in Canada Jan 27 19:42:46 but sprint is my carrier Jan 27 19:43:51 then, in the words of the late, great JFK, "Deallll with itttttttttttt" Jan 27 19:43:59 haha but no, really... There's not much to do right now Jan 27 19:44:18 The general assumption is that Feb 9th will bring new devices to Sprint but until the event actually HAPPENS, there's no way to really tell Jan 27 19:45:07 i like how the g2 has a little touch sensor where the button is on the pre, allowing you to go back/forth/up/down Jan 27 19:45:14 cause it's hard to click in between characers w/ the touchpad Jan 27 19:45:20 having not a ball there is a fail... Jan 27 19:46:38 you can hold down option and it basically gives you the same thing Jan 27 19:46:50 using the touchscreen as a giant navigation ball of sorts Jan 27 19:47:02 if you hold shift you can also drag around and select large bits of text to copy Jan 27 19:47:29 one of those little features that never really gets mentioned anywhere and is easy to miss Jan 27 19:50:51 whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Jan 27 19:51:13 also cool and often unknown: holding shift and tapping backspace deletes an entire word! Jan 27 19:51:22 good to know Jan 27 19:53:29 ShadeS: you should check out the tips on precentral Jan 27 19:53:49 i knew about ctrl+bkspc on a desktop Jan 27 19:53:51 but not on the pre Jan 27 19:54:16 yup, it's there on webOS too Jan 27 19:54:21 way handy Jan 27 20:23:24 how do i put a | in the terminal Jan 27 20:23:25 SineOtter: why did HP/Palm fail to document like any of this phone to the consumer, other than swipe back and swipe out? Jan 27 20:23:51 * wgreenhouse looks at his pathetic origami user manual Jan 27 20:23:53 because when this stuff was getting put in, it was just Palm, who was operating on a shoe string budget from hell Jan 27 20:24:10 so probably a mixture of time, cost, and well, cost Jan 27 20:24:57 thank you for the option-touchscreen hint, now I can navigate inside things like url bars that vanish off the screen Jan 27 20:25:49 I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that features like the option-touchscreen thing got added in like, 1.2 or something... and a lot of the documentation still really only covers the 1.0 features that were present at launch Jan 27 20:26:22 but when you're operating in a company that has a very likely chance of going under in less than 10 months, that's probably a low priority to update Jan 27 20:27:01 yeah Jan 27 20:27:41 I find these phones are such polished products that it's easy to forget that they were made as what would've been Palm's parting shot before vanishing from the world Jan 27 20:27:48 yup Jan 27 20:28:33 when stuff like Pre and Pixi were getting designed Palm was operating with a death sentence basically, and with fewer than 1000 employees from what I can gather doing everything from hardware design to software design to overseeing manufacturing Jan 27 20:29:01 while a company like HTC has something like 5500 employees basically just doing hardware design and updating SenseUI for operating systems they don't build Jan 27 20:29:36 so for webOS and the Pre and Pixi to be as polished as they are with so few resources, it's a definite testament to how devoted they are to what they're doing Jan 27 20:30:55 SineOtter: I don't know, companies with fewer employees than that have done awesome things with both software and hardware manufacture Jan 27 20:31:23 destinal: oh of course, I'm not saying they can't do that Jan 27 20:31:42 but to have something that even registers as a blip on the smartphone map is something that those companies probably haven't done Jan 27 20:33:23 I mean like hell, the Boxee Box is pretty awesome and it was done by a pretty small team... But it's not something that also requires carrier agreements, etc to get it into someone's house :p Jan 27 20:34:13 as a big Linux goofball, I certainly enjoy the idea that my phone is someone's crazy eleventh-hour idea for an experimental handheld Jan 27 20:34:49 Yeah, I remember reading that webOS was actually a back burner project within Palm originally, and their next gen OS was going to be an overhaul of the old PalmOS stuff Jan 27 20:35:14 which would have been a disaster Jan 27 20:35:31 * SineOtter disappears for class! Jan 27 20:45:27 hi there Jan 27 21:06:13 I don't know how many patch devs hang out in here or if someone might know, but is there a patch that lets Calendar update Messaging status? Meaning, when a Metting starts in my calendar, it updates my messaging status to "Busy" automagically? Jan 27 21:06:55 no Jan 27 21:07:39 It didn't look like it. If that isn't a feature of 2.x, I might have to try to make one... it seems like it'd be useful Jan 27 21:08:12 Thanks MetaView :D Jan 27 21:09:36 ooh Jan 27 21:10:07 sounds like something to tie into mode switcher Jan 27 21:11:21 I am running my Pre2 at 300Mhz right now to test my lower voltage limits. Wow this thing is sluggish. Jan 27 21:22:37 how fast does the pre2go? Jan 27 21:22:51 as fast as you can throw it ;) Jan 27 21:23:13 i've had mine running at 1.2GHz with no issues Jan 27 21:23:46 how fast does the battery go at that speed? Jan 27 21:29:35 i don't have exact metrics Jan 27 21:29:46 but i use the power scaling Jan 27 21:29:55 it is only at 1.2 while in use Jan 27 21:30:05 and drops to 500 when not Jan 27 21:30:22 I'm sure rwhitby could give you some detailed info Jan 27 21:30:28 Rob is a guru Jan 27 21:31:03 you can't get an accurate answer about battery life Jan 27 21:31:09 every device will be different Jan 27 21:31:27 and the same device will last different amounts of time with different users Jan 27 21:31:46 i agree cwgtex Jan 27 21:32:00 it is sort of silly to expect exact metrics concerning that Jan 27 21:32:00 and the same device with the same user will last different amounts of time in different area (coverage), usage, etc. Jan 27 21:32:10 way, way, way too many variables Jan 27 21:32:26 multi variable calculus Jan 27 21:32:29 ah, the good ol days Jan 27 21:32:31 i just know that for me, i get much more battery life after i under-volt Jan 27 21:35:34 ShaedS: the pre2 runs at 1GHz from the factory, but it also scales down to 300Mhz based on demand Jan 27 21:35:53 it works good Jan 27 21:36:10 i forced mine to run at 300MHz so i can see how low i can drop the voltage for my screenstate profile Jan 27 21:36:29 i won't use it at 300Mhz, but I want to see just how low the voltage can go. Jan 27 21:36:36 there is pre2 screenstate? Jan 27 21:40:03 oilsworkn: there is after you install f14 kernel Jan 27 21:47:48 hi Jan 27 21:55:14 hey guys Jan 27 21:55:26 i'm having a hard time saving a .pls file as a bookmark Jan 27 21:55:28 whats up Jan 27 21:57:52 how can i fisx this Jan 27 21:59:46 can anyone please help me with some "political/licence" rulez for creating meta package ? Jan 27 22:00:14 like? Jan 27 22:02:15 halfhalo: i make metapackage for install opera mini to prejvm, but what app_id and vendor in appinfo.json is correct ? com.opera.operamini and Opera Software ? Jan 27 22:05:00 halfhalo: of course operamini jar is not included, is downloaded from opera.com via script Jan 27 22:05:29 what do you mean by meta-package... you mean ipk? Jan 27 22:07:22 maybe dummy-package ? ipk with install script for download jar, with opera mini icon for launcher and script for this icon, that run installed jar under prejvm. Jan 27 22:13:25 halfhalo: btw: icon is from iconspedia.com, licenced for free Jan 27 22:15:29 I know you can do it using pre-install scripts in preware Jan 27 22:15:39 * halfhalo goes to get foods from kitchen Jan 27 22:22:38 halfhalo: i know too :) i have package completed and work fine, but i don't know if is correct use id "com.opera.operamini" and in appinfo.json as vendor "Opera Software ASA" Jan 27 22:25:44 well, do you have the legal right to use Opera's name? Jan 27 22:30:13 opera didn't create the package, YOU did Jan 27 22:30:57 halfhalo: no Jan 27 22:32:01 Loudergood: ok, but if icon run jar from Opera and not from me ? Jan 27 22:32:32 that jar will have it's own identifiers Jan 27 22:33:23 the pre2's cpu undervolts like a champ Jan 27 22:34:23 Loudergood: but this is not showed when i skip preJVM gui where is in menu Info Jan 27 22:35:18 just don't distribute as opera Jan 27 22:35:46 halfhalo: you think that id com.opera.operamini is also not correct, right ? :) Jan 27 22:36:12 Loudergood: ok. Jan 27 22:37:17 and opera-mini in package name ? sorry if me question is .... Jan 27 22:40:11 make it clear that it's a downloader I think Jan 27 23:18:05 Where does the lower limit of 912.5mV in Govnah come from? Just a shot in the dark? Or some TI specs? Jan 27 23:18:23 (by shot in the dark i mean educated guess) Jan 27 23:18:39 Loudergood: i have in FullDescription that it's a downloader/installer, but what app id ? com.opera.operamini ? com.download.operamini ? download.jar.to.my.phone.and.put.big.red.o.icon ? :) Jan 27 23:19:51 k3dar: you may only use domains that you have administrative control over. I doubt you have administrative control over com.opera Jan 27 23:20:32 (e.g. you can only use com.foo.package if you actually own the foo.com domain) Jan 27 23:21:23 rwhitby: thx, and if i don't own domain ? Jan 27 23:30:02 rwhitby: Where does the lower voltage limit of 912.5mV in Govnah come from? I can't seem to find any specs for the OMAP3630 that list a voltage range. Jan 27 23:30:19 there are none Jan 27 23:31:58 rwhitby: What are your thoughts on manually setting the voltage lower than that (25 in manual settings)? Jan 27 23:32:29 I suspect the kernel won't accept it, since Govnah displays and adheres to the parameters that the kernel reports Jan 27 23:34:12 use warthog instead Jan 27 23:34:48 warthog not available for pre2 that i can tell Jan 27 23:35:16 but then again it might eat ur phone Jan 27 23:35:29 no, not avail Jan 27 23:35:39 coz I'm lazy Jan 27 23:36:10 900 mv is very low already Jan 27 23:36:52 ull get more savings from the phone waking up less Jan 27 23:38:00 you are correct rod, i entered 24 and saved it, but it reverted back to 25, aka 912.5mV Jan 27 23:41:10 i was able complete webOSmark @ 600Mhz @ 912.5mV Jan 27 23:41:31 i just wanted to see if i could set it lower for 300MHz Jan 27 23:42:55 you are running f14? Jan 27 23:43:30 the stock kernel does not allow for voltage changes afaik. Jan 27 23:50:31 yes, running f14 Jan 27 23:50:36 i named my profile maverick Jan 27 23:51:45 what are the advantages of the warthog kernel? Jan 27 23:57:17 Is there a way to add the kernel testing feed through novaterm? i just added the regular testing feeds with novaterm following the wiki. Jan 28 00:19:00 warthog eats phones just like sr71 Jan 28 00:19:11 just from a low voltage angle **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 28 02:59:56 2011