**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 06 02:59:57 2011 Mar 06 03:05:32 sup Mar 06 03:14:14 can the Pre receive internet via bluetooth? Mar 06 03:15:37 it can give via bluetooth afaik Mar 06 03:16:19 I know it can *give* but can it *recieve*? Mar 06 03:20:22 is it me or is the uberkernel I installed+govnah on 2.1 is something me overclock ? Mar 06 03:20:47 Hi Guys Mar 06 03:21:16 i'm looking for someone to look over my work trying to create a Sprint Pre Plus Mar 06 03:21:44 i run through the wiki article to the T Mar 06 03:22:27 but when I run the doctor after copying the tokens into castle.xml and skipping the carrier and device check Mar 06 03:22:41 The pre still comes up as ATT and the ATT Pre plus model number Mar 06 03:23:31 is everyone busy on a Saturday night? Mar 06 03:23:39 i thought we were nerds... Mar 06 03:25:13 i guess i'll hav eto try later Mar 06 03:26:24 what's going on DJ? Mar 06 03:33:42 rwhitby: hey rod, just wondering if you could help with a meta-doctor issue? when running the make i get all the echos for various flags I set in the Makefile, but no build is actually produced - any ideas? Mar 06 03:35:17 heh, internet vocabulary is spreading, I just heard a 13 year old neighbor girl describe something as "total fail" Mar 06 03:40:36 PatrickC_Pixi: in theory you could get online on a pre via bluetooth PAN, it's just a network interface. there may not be any apps to make it easy to do but it should be possible Mar 06 03:45:08 can anyone help me out with a meta-doctor issue? Mar 06 03:45:27 i'm trying to plus a Sprint Pre Mar 06 03:49:51 beingboston: generally best to explain the issue. in other words, asking the question is good, asking if you can ask a question isn't generally useful Mar 06 03:50:41 gotcha Mar 06 03:50:55 it doesn't guarantee that someone can help, but if they read the description of the issue and know the answer they might jump in with it where most people will just ignore the other Mar 06 03:51:16 i'm trying to plus a SPrint Pre. i've gone through the steps on the wiki including dumping and adding the tokens to castle.xml Mar 06 03:51:35 but when the pre reboots after doctoring it it still says ATT and has the pre plus model number Mar 06 03:52:01 i've ran through it twice but i still have hte same issue Mar 06 03:52:21 both times i completely reinstalled meta-doctor to start from scratch Mar 06 03:53:38 the pre works fine right now, but the model and carrier are in accurate Mar 06 03:53:51 beingboston: this wiki article? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Sprint_Pre_Plus Mar 06 03:53:59 that's the one Mar 06 03:54:14 i'm using ubuntu linux to build the doctor Mar 06 03:55:13 beingboston: did you use the show properties app on the Sprint Pre- to get your tokens? Mar 06 03:56:10 yes, i did a full dump and had them emailed to me. i took a dump from both phones Mar 06 03:57:18 then i copied and pasted the info into castle.xml using nano as my editor of choice Mar 06 03:57:54 hmmm, I've never done it before myself but if you took the one from the Sprint device (confirming it was the one from the sprint device and not the ATT device) and put them in there and they have action="overwrite" Mar 06 03:58:01 AND you did a make pack after that Mar 06 03:58:14 AND you ran the repacked doctor and not the original one\ Mar 06 03:58:19 it should work Mar 06 03:59:09 shoot, that's what it was... i took the dump, copyed and pasted, but didn't include the overwrite flag... Mar 06 03:59:13 d'oh! Mar 06 03:59:18 thanks destinal Mar 06 03:59:36 beingboston: you're welcome :) hopefully that works for you\ Mar 06 04:00:14 i'm sure it will, and i'd like to think this isn't hte first time i've done 90% of the work and hit a wall :-/ Mar 06 04:00:41 it's always the little things, isn't it? Mar 06 04:01:42 you're not kidding... I had a migration take 3 weeks because there were hidden characters in the data. should have taken 5 days Mar 06 04:01:56 never make that mistake again Mar 06 04:02:09 thanks again for the eyes Mar 06 04:02:19 beingboston: no problem. Mar 06 04:02:51 I'd like to make an easier automated tool for this, but no idea if and when I'll ever get to it. too many pots and not enough burners at the moment. Mar 06 04:03:39 it's an interesting project Mar 06 04:04:06 there are so many processes that are needlessly complex right now and I think "hey, I know how to make that take a few minutes rather than an hour, that would help people out", but the list is pages long :) Mar 06 04:04:09 i'm going to make sure everything is a-ok with 1.4.5 and then try 2.1 Mar 06 04:04:47 oh i'm sure. but if the person can disasemble two Pre's hopefully they don't mind a little cmd line work Mar 06 04:05:10 beingboston: yup, which is why it's lower on the list right now, too Mar 06 04:05:16 i had flash backs to taking my treo 180 apart trying to fix the flip cover Mar 06 04:05:37 making things easier for already technically competent people isn't as important as fixing the stuff everyone needs to use. like, say, terminal. Mar 06 04:06:00 which rod found a lead on from the forums that I need to investigate tomorrow Mar 06 04:06:06 v cool Mar 06 04:06:14 i'm looking forward to an update Mar 06 04:06:45 any chance of it being 2.x native without the services? Mar 06 04:08:50 good luck with terminal, keep up the great work guys Mar 06 04:28:12 can't find overclock kernel .. I just see pal kernel .. is there a feed I'm missing ? Mar 06 04:29:11 ~testing-feeds Mar 06 04:29:12 testing-feeds is, like, a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Mar 06 04:29:58 joebpre: ^^ Mar 06 04:32:13 * NuttyBunny has just added the spanish translation of meta doctor to the Wiki :D Mar 06 04:33:08 sorry, I was afk Mar 06 04:33:37 what would enable PAN access for the pre? Mar 06 04:34:44 PatrickC_Pixi: Isn't it already enabled whenever you turn bluetooth on? Mar 06 04:35:16 but I cannot access it.. I want to use my Pixi to give my pre internet via bluetooth Mar 06 04:36:30 Ah, no, that's not how it works, the Pre can't access internet via other device, the other devices can access internet via the Pre Mar 06 04:38:28 if you said anything to me within the past few minutes, then could you please repeat it? pixi locked up and needed a tripple-toggle-reset Mar 06 04:38:41 thanks Mar 06 04:51:14 RagingMind, did u need something? Mar 06 04:51:50 puffthemagic: you are a dev for freeTether, rite? Mar 06 04:52:51 ya Mar 06 04:53:52 can I give my pre internet via bluetooth from my Pixi? Mar 06 04:54:30 ~seen rwhitby Mar 06 04:54:35 rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals. Has said a total of 86 messages. Is idling for 24m 36s, last said: 'joebpre: ^^'. Mar 06 04:55:37 PatrickC_Pre, technically, it can be done, im not sure freetether is setup to do that though Mar 06 04:55:42 NuttyBunny: what you're saying is true only about current apps ability to configure BT PAN. you could do it by hand from the command line at the moment Mar 06 04:56:24 ok.. is it something that will be added later/soon? Mar 06 04:56:53 well, there is no way for a webos device to initiate a PAN connection at the moment Mar 06 04:57:05 i only know how to do that from a computer Mar 06 04:57:51 that is, unless something changed in 2.x Mar 06 04:57:53 idk Mar 06 04:57:57 ok. so pretty much, when Palm allows it (releases the API) it will happen? Mar 06 04:58:16 I thought it did change in 2.x but I'm not sure Mar 06 04:58:18 PatrickC_Pre: more like if than when Mar 06 04:58:20 it might be possible now with out palm making an api for it Mar 06 04:58:23 destinal: ah, nice to know, but at this moment we still need to connect to the Pre via a computer to configure it ;) Mar 06 04:58:42 configure what? Mar 06 04:58:57 PAN Mar 06 04:59:29 is it something that needs to be configured every time? Mar 06 04:59:35 or is it a one-time deal? Mar 06 04:59:37 I just tried the test-meta-att-preplus-2.1.0 on my att pre plus, it is reporting version 9.9.9 in my profile. Mar 06 04:59:42 PAN is point to point Mar 06 04:59:46 errr Mar 06 04:59:49 its like ad-hoc Mar 06 04:59:52 its not a AP Mar 06 05:00:01 it only works between 2 devices Mar 06 05:00:13 and one of them needs to initiate the connection Mar 06 05:00:27 right now webos is set to to listent for a PAN connection Mar 06 05:00:34 so, I need a terminal to configure it? Mar 06 05:00:54 PatrickC_Pre: there may or may not be supporting code in Palm's proprietary bluetooth stack to initiate a connection from the device to another Mar 06 05:00:54 idk if there are any commands u can run from the terminal Mar 06 05:00:57 i havent looked into it Mar 06 05:01:07 ok Mar 06 05:01:25 seems like device to device PANs would be useful Mar 06 05:01:26 I wish I had a pixi plus... then I could wifi.. Mar 06 05:01:28 esp for tap to share Mar 06 05:01:34 yea Mar 06 05:02:25 Error454: does the "test" one try without masquerading? if so then I guess Palm has not added in 2.1.0 + ATT as a valid combination Mar 06 05:03:05 destinal: I'm not sure, is that a build option in the script? Mar 06 05:03:49 Error454: haven't really read how the script does it Mar 06 05:03:51 night all Mar 06 05:04:19 Error454: it's a question of whether it's using the modified build info that sets it to claim 1.4.5 or not Mar 06 05:04:23 destinal: Not sure either, just saw on twitter that there was a test script to try and figured I would try it. Mar 06 05:04:59 Error454: yeah, the test is probably to determine whether or not it works without masq'ing at this point, and based on your data, I'd say it's not Mar 06 05:05:55 Sprint and WR currently work without masquerading as 1.4.5 so they will properly show up as 2.1.0, but carriers palm hasn't yet added for this will show 9.9.9 Mar 06 05:05:56 destinal: If you folks want any more info on the att side, I can test for you, you can get me on twitter @error454 Mar 06 05:06:27 Error454: rwhitby especially is likely to be interested Mar 06 05:37:04 which kernel should i put on my pre plus running 2.1.0? Mar 06 05:37:28 ill start w/ uber Mar 06 05:42:24 That's it, Upgrade to 2.1 and Meta Doctor spanish pages updated. :D Mar 06 05:43:36 evening Mar 06 05:49:23 NuttyBunny: nice one Mar 06 05:49:38 keith: recommend uberkernel also Mar 06 05:50:12 rwhitby: Trying to do the right things :) Mar 06 05:50:45 does screenstate work on uberkenel yet? or does it still have the bug where it goes 500 and doesnt jump back up? Mar 06 05:51:26 I'm actually testing a possible fix for that right now Mar 06 05:51:34 awesome! Mar 06 05:51:38 can i help? Mar 06 05:52:30 if it works on my device, it will be in the testing feed shortly afterwards Mar 06 05:53:41 booting is a good first step Mar 06 06:01:32 angry birds runs Mar 06 06:01:36 rwhitby: My job here is done, posted to PoderPDA, let's hope the guys now do the things correctly and not keep relying on mandaman2k ;) Mar 06 06:01:52 NuttyBunny: URL of your post? Mar 06 06:03:27 http://www.poderpda.com/foros/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42512 - I reused my previous post, I just renamed it and kept there, and referenced it here: http://www.poderpda.com/foros/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42503&start=60#p46384 Mar 06 06:06:23 NuttyBunny: you got a twitter nick? Mar 06 06:08:03 rwhitby: @cesarneg Mar 06 06:14:53 gotta go :) Mar 06 06:14:55 night! Mar 06 06:15:18 thanks for the mention ;D Mar 06 06:20:17 keith: uberkernel is in the testing feed Mar 06 06:20:32 ok i'll update Mar 06 06:32:39 Does someone still have webos 1.4.5? Mar 06 07:19:12 so does the sprint frankin pre disable palm backup? Mar 06 07:20:20 the script that is Mar 06 07:25:30 ~log Mar 06 07:25:31 it has been said that log is located at http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals/ and the latest log is located at http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals.txt Mar 06 07:48:21 rwhitby, will this command perm enable the update prl button? or will manual editing need to be done... luna-send -n 1 luna://com.palm.systemservice/setPreferences '{"showUpdatePRL":true}' Mar 06 07:56:48 Jack87: it has persisted through multiple reboots for me, but that by itself doesn't actually make it work Mar 06 07:59:01 idontwan2know, doesnt make the update work.. but the button remains in prefrences of phone? Mar 06 07:59:20 yes Mar 06 08:01:30 and the 1.4.5 provisioner doesnt work? Mar 06 08:03:16 negative. Mar 06 08:03:32 * Jack87 is reading the logs and is unable to find anyone that actually tested it and confirmed it doesnt work Mar 06 08:04:51 EdCates has, I believe. Mar 06 08:05:50 * Jack87 is considering double checking Mar 06 08:07:19 Jack87: 1.4.5 provisioner does not work Mar 06 08:07:47 i wonder if provisioner IPK isnt actually the problem Mar 06 08:08:17 Jack87: dbus->ls2 and changed libraries. forget it, it's not going to work. Mar 06 09:33:58 what is sweatshop ipk? Mar 06 11:00:20 rwhitby, i dont see uberkernel in testing feed Mar 06 11:00:40 bummer for you. it's there. Mar 06 11:01:21 double check please? Mar 06 11:01:39 no, you first. I know it's there. Mar 06 11:01:46 testing kernels Mar 06 11:01:49 just did Mar 06 11:01:56 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels/testing/2.1.0/ Mar 06 11:02:03 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels/testing/2.1.0/org.webosinternals.kernels.uber-kernel-pre_2.1.0-11_arm.ipk Mar 06 11:02:10 did you happen to check there? Mar 06 11:02:26 hum... why cant i see it Mar 06 11:02:33 what's the feed addressß Mar 06 11:02:37 i cant see it in preware Mar 06 11:02:48 can test it too Mar 06 11:03:02 Jack87: ah, well that's not what you said, is it ? ;) Mar 06 11:03:20 lol thats why i had to rephrase it Mar 06 11:03:55 MetaView, http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-kernels/testing/2.1.0/ Mar 06 11:05:04 ok, 11 kernels# Mar 06 11:05:19 Warthog, Uber, Harrier, F105 Mar 06 11:05:28 and even more Mar 06 11:05:42 Pre+ UK, 2.1.0 Mar 06 11:05:57 Preware 1.5.4 Mar 06 11:05:57 weird i only see harrier and f105 Mar 06 11:06:14 preware 1.5.5 sprint 2.1.0 Mar 06 11:06:31 check your feed config Mar 06 11:06:33 ah, most of them are just place holders Mar 06 11:06:39 but Uber has a version number Mar 06 11:06:58 most likely is you've stuffed up the feed name, and it hasn't automatically changed the version number as a result of that stuff up Mar 06 11:07:06 1.5.5 is the one which hides this stub-packages? Mar 06 11:07:10 yep Mar 06 11:07:46 I think I rebuilt the kernel placeholders with the right metadata flag Mar 06 11:11:09 oh well, I'm an idiot Mar 06 11:13:19 took a few feed updates but its there now Mar 06 13:10:55 Does anyone know where this fabled BasicService SDK example is? Mar 06 13:13:39 hi there Mar 06 13:20:11 g'day Mar 06 13:21:44 mornin' Mar 06 13:25:31 any1 got openvpn to work as client on 2.1 ?? Mar 06 13:26:32 haven't tried it yet. Just updating to latest uberkernel right now.. ;) Mar 06 13:26:47 is it public or stil in testing ? Mar 06 13:26:57 testing feed Mar 06 13:27:20 just read a message about it in the forums Mar 06 13:27:29 supposed to fix the screenstate issues Mar 06 13:27:45 bbl Mar 06 13:29:38 You should follow @webosinternals on twitter, it's faster to know the new developments :) Mar 06 13:49:05 hi Mar 06 13:49:15 found freetether <333 Mar 06 13:52:01 it's on the testing feeds :P Mar 06 14:48:42 Nutty: argh, just how many channels am I supposed to be following ;) Mar 06 15:17:46 does google image search break for anyone else with 2.1? Mar 06 15:19:33 the search loads but the preview doesn't, so you have to go to "view full size" ? Mar 06 15:19:56 RMind, it has been an ongoing bug with google images mobile Mar 06 15:20:01 scroll down on the preview Mar 06 15:20:09 the image loads, but it is way lower than it should be Mar 06 15:20:37 okay. so not a 2.1 thing at all? Mar 06 15:20:46 did it for me in 1.4.5 as well Mar 06 15:21:11 and I don't seem to remember it happening right after the 1.4.5 OTA, so I /think/ it is a google bug Mar 06 15:21:19 Is there webOS Task Manager App? Mar 06 15:21:29 scoinva, to do what exactly Mar 06 15:21:37 I want to see what process is running that creating a load. Mar 06 15:21:55 the closest thing would be JSTop I guess Mar 06 15:22:02 doesn't show load, but it shows memory usage Mar 06 15:22:13 but typically, if an app is running, you can see it's card Mar 06 15:22:14 I'm running Govnah. It goes from 13+... then slowly down to 8+. But I've seen it as low as 2. Mar 06 15:22:31 what device, what webos version Mar 06 15:22:41 cryptk: I can live with memory usage. :) Mar 06 15:22:49 Pre+ running 2.1 Mar 06 15:23:01 any apps open except govnah? Mar 06 15:23:22 no. just govnah Mar 06 15:23:29 novaterm in and run top? :) Mar 06 15:23:38 no Mar 06 15:23:42 disconnected from PC Mar 06 15:23:48 you could do that, but that will only show linux apps... won't show anything running inside luna Mar 06 15:23:58 scoinva, does the load stay after a reboot? Mar 06 15:24:12 the load starts after reboot. Mar 06 15:24:26 then it slowly goes down after a few hours. Mar 06 15:24:30 what kernel are you using? Mar 06 15:24:49 I tried installing the different kernels Mar 06 15:24:49 which LA number are you looking at? Mar 06 15:24:56 there are three LA numbers Mar 06 15:25:11 but they never seem to run at higher CPU speed. Mar 06 15:25:24 what kernel Mar 06 15:25:29 9.9, 9.22, 8.71? Mar 06 15:26:00 how do I know which Kernel I'm running? Mar 06 15:26:00 scoinva, what kernel isn't running at a higher speed? Mar 06 15:26:20 I install Uber... then F102... I'm lost which one I'm running now. Mar 06 15:26:35 title bar of govnah Mar 06 15:26:37 but I think I see your point. I should install Palm Default kernel? Mar 06 15:26:43 it will say what kernel you are using Mar 06 15:26:57 v0.7.25 Palm Mar 06 15:27:01 ? Mar 06 15:27:06 you are running the stock kernel Mar 06 15:27:12 so no wonder you aren't at higher speeds Mar 06 15:27:26 maybe I had different kernel running right at some point. Mar 06 15:27:30 the only kernels available right now are in the testing feeds Mar 06 15:27:36 which gave me the lower Load Average. Mar 06 15:27:43 and better battery life. Mar 06 15:28:01 if you don't have the testing feeds enabled in preware, then you will only see dummy packages Mar 06 15:28:23 if a kernel version is 2.1.0-0 then it is a dummy package (the -0 means dummy package) Mar 06 15:28:24 I've installed Uber from the Testing Feed but... I never see the new Profiles in Govnah Mar 06 15:28:35 I must have a hosed it up at some point. Mar 06 15:29:11 Uber doesn't overclock yet (I could be wrong though) Mar 06 15:29:16 I have the Testing Feeds added... but maybe that's what I'm actually installing are the Dummy package. Mar 06 15:29:17 but the other kernels do Mar 06 15:29:24 interesting. Mar 06 15:29:28 cryptk: uber allows overclocking Mar 06 15:29:33 if you have testing feeds added and enabled, then you won't see dummy packages Mar 06 15:29:37 m-h-k cool Mar 06 15:29:41 thanks for the correction Mar 06 15:30:00 what's the search pop up thing is 2.x use? I remember precentral talking about it, but I can't find it Mar 06 15:30:01 let me check out jstop and try to reapply the kernels. Mar 06 15:30:09 screenstate, performance, ondemand, conservative all supported Mar 06 15:30:16 what should I go with Uber to 102? Mar 06 15:30:19 125 MHz - 1 GHz Mar 06 15:30:30 after you install UberKernel you can go into the Govnah profile selection, click on Advanced, click on CPU Frequency and change the Max Freq setting Mar 06 15:30:36 only there seems to be an issue with screenstate still under 2.1 Mar 06 15:30:48 the the Max Freq to something like 800? Mar 06 15:31:09 note that the phone itself will adjust the speed on the fly with the default governor so if the phone is idling it will clock down, but launch preware and have it updating feeds and watch govnah Mar 06 15:31:13 you should see the speed go up Mar 06 15:31:24 800 would be good to start Mar 06 15:31:37 my pre just rebooted inadvertantly Mar 06 15:31:47 not sure if 1 GHz is such a good idea :) Mar 06 15:32:01 I thought uNiXpSyChO fixed that? Mar 06 15:32:19 I had the same reboot experience at some point. Mar 06 15:32:23 I love the speed scaling though... right now my Pre2 isn't doing anything so it is idling nicely at 300MHz Mar 06 15:32:25 well, it is screenstating better now, but a number of people (including me) are now reporing issues with the camera app Mar 06 15:32:39 well, that is why they are in the testing feed Mar 06 15:32:40 300? You hand tuned the values.. Mar 06 15:32:47 correct Mar 06 15:33:01 I can absolutely live with the flakeyness.. it's on a test pre Mar 06 15:33:04 m-h-k no, I am on a Pre2 Mar 06 15:33:08 oh Mar 06 15:33:16 which values do you get on a Pre2? Mar 06 15:33:27 I wish there were a Pre2 with german keyboard Mar 06 15:33:37 150, 300, 600, 800, 1GHz Mar 06 15:33:38 I want qwertz Mar 06 15:33:40 on uber kernel Mar 06 15:33:47 neat Mar 06 15:33:59 it does go down to 150 from time to time Mar 06 15:34:09 which governor are you using? Mar 06 15:34:20 ondemandtcl Mar 06 15:34:28 -tcl? Mar 06 15:34:34 wazzat Mar 06 15:34:40 that is the name of the stock governor Mar 06 15:34:44 oh Mar 06 15:35:06 Pre2 kernel comes with ondemand and auto-adjusts frequencies? Mar 06 15:35:13 yes Mar 06 15:35:16 cool Mar 06 15:35:28 my Pre2 is my main device now so I don't push the limits on it Mar 06 15:35:30 bbiaf Mar 06 15:35:36 pre- uses fixed freqzency? Mar 06 15:35:38 I didn't know that. Looks like that is what unixpsycho is fighting against with the screenstate thing Mar 06 15:36:04 it's like have a car that can switch between 4 & 8 cylinders on the fly. :) Mar 06 15:36:23 Lichtlos, Pre- with 1.4.5 uses userspace.. and Luna turns it to 600 on PDK apps (games) and 500 otherwise Mar 06 15:36:40 Lichtlos, and so does 2.1.0 on the stock kernel as far as I have seen Mar 06 15:36:48 m-h-k: thanks :) Mar 06 15:37:28 This is pretty cool that HP now switches clocks on the Pre2 by default Mar 06 15:39:27 hm, ondemand makes my Pre- crash with 2.1.0 and UK Mar 06 15:39:55 * m-h-k power-mute-cycle reboots Mar 06 15:42:10 * m-h-k thinks that hp logo needs a Penguin also. Mar 06 15:43:34 At least 2.1 boots faster Mar 06 15:50:00 m-h-k: boot time on pre- is still pain in the ass :/ Mar 06 15:50:16 Much better than 1.4.5 for me Mar 06 15:51:53 I haven't noticed any speed up in boot on my pre+ Mar 06 15:54:41 Hm, maybe it is because my 2.1.0 device still has less stuff on it than the 1.4.5 one Mar 06 15:55:12 But I get the initial lock screen a lot quicker than when I boot my 1.4.5 Pre- Mar 06 16:15:04 I'm looking for a homebrew reference that describes how to make an app run outside of the jail. Does /var/palm/data/jailusers control this? Mar 06 16:41:19 Hey, I need help with Arch Linux and novacom. Can anything help me? Mar 06 16:41:48 DasLampe: archlinux is not supported Mar 06 16:42:02 DasLampe: try using vbox/differend libusb version Mar 06 16:42:18 Oo Mar 06 16:42:18 Ok, but a few month ago, I had use this. Mar 06 16:42:25 Ok thanks Mar 06 16:43:59 hey everyone Mar 06 16:44:44 what's the process of getting linphone alpha? the forum entry doesn't say much except join the channel ;) Mar 06 17:28:44 anyone know how I can become an alpha tester for Linphone? would like to help in testing and am very knowledgeable about VOIP. I use sipgate, GV, and ringcentral. Mar 06 17:29:18 jnusraty, +1 ! Mar 06 17:32:13 SimpsonCH, do you know how? Mar 06 17:32:23 I wanna know as well ;) Mar 06 17:40:06 Can anyone help in getting approval for linphone alpha tester? would love to test and help Mar 06 17:40:57 do my eyes decieve me? Mar 06 17:41:05 flashlight in video recorder app? :D Mar 06 17:41:26 does it work? Mar 06 17:46:00 so do 1.4.5 profiles work on 2.1 now? Mar 06 17:48:12 how can i become an alpha tester for linphone? anyone know?? Mar 06 17:53:59 hehe linphone seems to be *the* question Mar 06 17:54:17 linphone rocks. Mar 06 17:54:54 why is it not in the beta feeds yet? Mar 06 17:55:05 what is linphone Mar 06 17:55:44 fudge_: VoIP client Mar 06 17:56:41 so we can use our dev pre/pixi's as a real phone now? Mar 06 17:58:12 so does anyone know how? point me in the right direction? Mar 06 18:00:43 im lovin this overclocking in 2.1 :D i was about to go back to 1.4.5 :D Mar 06 18:01:24 Josef_B: overclock on pre+/-? Mar 06 18:01:31 god ive been missing out on so much Mar 06 18:02:50 testing kernels Mar 06 18:02:59 nice Mar 06 18:03:10 how much is it able to overclock to? Mar 06 18:03:19 MetaView, I had errors installing ubercalendar on 2.1 Mar 06 18:03:30 SimpsonCH: ok, why? Mar 06 18:03:49 I installed it just yesterday on my Pre+ with 2.1 Mar 06 18:03:57 dinner, bbl Mar 06 18:05:55 anyone know what sweatshop.tar contains Mar 06 18:06:48 im trying to port over sprint nav over to 2.1, but afaik it needs the sprint navigation services Mar 06 18:08:30 dumbledore_, been tried... it won't work Mar 06 18:08:45 there are API changes in the luna messaging implementation Mar 06 18:08:50 sucks... Mar 06 18:09:16 the 1.4.5 sprint nav service uses the old API, so the only way to make it work would be to run the 1.4.5 luna... which would defeat the purpose Mar 06 18:09:35 there is no publicly releasable way to make sprint nav work on 2.X as of now Mar 06 18:10:44 dumbledore_: depends on what you define as "real phone" Mar 06 18:10:54 if you have a voip account, then yes Mar 06 18:11:37 yeah, i have a voip acct Mar 06 18:17:51 btw anyone had a look as the messaging stuff in 2.x, do they have some kind of API for other transports now? Mar 06 18:18:03 so that integration of other transports is easier Mar 06 18:20:31 ktk, what are you thinking about ? Mar 06 18:27:28 SimpsonCH: well like xmpp integration and stuff Mar 06 18:27:34 the patching in 1.x was not really nice Mar 06 19:03:11 what's goin on? Mar 06 19:06:33 preware keeps telling me that there is a new version for an app, but I cannot update it Mar 06 19:13:51 2.1 overclocked im in love Mar 06 19:13:52 :D Mar 06 19:14:45 man Mar 06 19:15:01 i went to 2 verizon stores (retail) to touch pre2 and nobody has it Mar 06 19:15:02 pfft Mar 06 19:22:12 Josef, at least you can get one in your country... theoretically :) Mar 06 19:22:52 :P Mar 06 19:27:12 I am stuck with having to get second hand pres from another country (second hand so that they have had "first activation" in a proper country Mar 06 19:27:45 <-- Austria Mar 06 19:30:46 m-h-k, same here ;) Mar 06 19:30:47 fun fun Mar 06 19:30:55 hopefully HP does something about that Mar 06 19:31:05 m-h-k, I bought a german one Mar 06 19:31:46 I'm tempted to sell mine so I can get a cdma one for personal use.. Mar 06 19:37:00 anyone else overclock their pre on 2.1? Mar 06 19:38:24 yup Mar 06 19:38:30 how much can you overclock too Mar 06 19:38:35 well..mine's a plus Mar 06 19:38:41 but 800 is working fine Mar 06 19:38:44 nice Mar 06 19:38:49 haven't really tried 1G Mar 06 19:38:56 ;o 1g Mar 06 19:38:58 gotta try Mar 06 19:39:17 anyidea when this goes live ? Mar 06 19:39:35 the kernel? Mar 06 19:40:01 im having trouble with installing a package via novaterm :-/ Mar 06 19:40:08 probably once rwhitby is convinced it works reliably and isn't going to mess up someone's phone. Mar 06 19:40:10 says something about filesystem being readonly Mar 06 19:40:24 i forgot how to set write access Mar 06 19:41:11 ah! Mar 06 19:41:15 im not in developer mode Mar 06 19:41:22 lol Mar 06 19:42:18 strange, its already in developer mode Mar 06 19:43:19 who has a Verizon pre 2? Mar 06 19:43:55 I used to have a GSM one... Mar 06 19:43:59 negative. Mar 06 19:44:02 hrmm Mar 06 19:44:03 now I have a Sprint one... Mar 06 19:44:08 check this out Mar 06 19:44:10 shoo Mar 06 19:44:12 t+ Mar 06 19:44:13 could be a VZW one if someone sends me a comm board, lol Mar 06 19:44:20 i just got a nook color for $200 Mar 06 19:44:27 yikes. why? Mar 06 19:44:31 the hardware is really close to the pre 2 Mar 06 19:44:34 really? Mar 06 19:44:36 just to hack on Mar 06 19:44:42 Mar 06 19:44:42 yeah like crazy similar Mar 06 19:44:58 boot access == root access Mar 06 19:44:58 ? Mar 06 19:45:01 also, it has a micro sd with boot priority Mar 06 19:45:08 whats it got going on there? Mar 06 19:45:12 no doubt Mar 06 19:45:26 this all posted up somewhere? Mar 06 19:45:37 hmmph yeah it is. Mar 06 19:45:52 OMAP 3621 Mar 06 19:46:05 vs pre 2 3630 Mar 06 19:46:11 tbh, i wouldnt put android on a nook. Mar 06 19:46:23 fucking OS is disgusting. Mar 06 19:46:26 yeah i put 3.0 on it, it still sucks Mar 06 19:46:30 yeah its really bad Mar 06 19:46:41 scuse my french, but even the xoom can take a hike. Mar 06 19:46:54 let make the first webos tablet guys :D Mar 06 19:46:54 $800 for a choppy-assed piece of junk Mar 06 19:47:01 Mar 06 19:47:07 yeah that thing is craptacular Mar 06 19:47:08 i cant wait my dude. Mar 06 19:47:21 i have the ipad Mar 06 19:47:31 and i bang out books and manuals Mar 06 19:47:53 I was going to try to build a bootable sd card but I think it would take me for ever to fix all the mount points etc Mar 06 19:48:03 i am hoping for the best. Mar 06 19:48:05 yeah, i got this thing to hold me over till the touchpad comes out Mar 06 19:48:09 (re: webos tablet) Mar 06 19:48:22 if I had a dd dump of the block devices Mar 06 19:48:40 i could cross compile somthing for it Mar 06 19:48:41 I could probably just write them back to the internal nand Mar 06 19:49:01 you could dd over netcat Mar 06 19:49:01 :P Mar 06 19:49:05 heheh Mar 06 19:49:22 yeah what does it got mtdblock stuffs? Mar 06 19:49:24 etx`, see my /msg to you Mar 06 19:49:41 actually I've been using a system on the sd card to connect over usb then dd'ing from the sd card to the nand Mar 06 19:50:14 PuffTheMagic, is egaudet` the other freethether guy? Mar 06 19:50:49 every second with android makes me love webos more and more Mar 06 19:51:14 can't decide if I should spend my sunday working on my last.fm app in enyo or hacking on this tablet heh Mar 06 19:51:39 I vote for the last.fm app Mar 06 19:51:43 heh Mar 06 19:51:51 I have all the hard stuff done on that Mar 06 19:52:04 rolled a eny component interface to the api Mar 06 19:52:04 etx`, you have enyo under NDA ? Mar 06 19:52:11 mostly because when all the right software/hardware is released (and I have some) I"ll be interested in the app :) Mar 06 19:52:30 SimpsonCH: I'm in the early access program yes Mar 06 19:52:35 k Mar 06 19:52:50 So, all I can say is enyo is awesome :D Mar 06 19:52:51 do you get any signals when this stuff gets available Mar 06 19:52:52 when stuff get released from being under nda? Mar 06 19:53:24 yup Mar 06 19:53:25 how do i set write access to install ipk packages in novaterm Mar 06 19:53:35 Not really, or not up to this point Mar 06 19:53:47 dumbledore_ look at /etc/fstab Mar 06 19:53:59 funny, I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened since the program started Mar 06 19:54:05 you may want to mount your rootfs to RW Mar 06 19:54:12 2.x is still under nda also Mar 06 19:54:15 it's silly Mar 06 19:54:21 oc80z, there's a script that comes with webos that does that Mar 06 19:54:26 I forget the name of it though Mar 06 19:54:31 etx`, dull ack Mar 06 19:54:36 full ack that is Mar 06 19:54:39 right Mar 06 19:55:08 ok back to java script'n Mar 06 19:55:44 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Profile.d Mar 06 20:00:16 Any clue why I would be getting "require is not defined" in my node.js service? Mar 06 20:00:33 I run it in the terminal and it works Mar 06 20:01:20 Error454, there was something cool that you're doing that I wanted to know more about, or there was something I wanted to ask you... but I forgot Mar 06 20:01:49 RagingMind: related to usb? Mar 06 20:03:59 I just decided to be un-lazy and search through my IRC logs... 1m Mar 06 20:04:01 hey does anyone else have a problem getting some packages from optware via ipkg? Mar 06 20:04:14 I'm getting short writes when i try to grab gcc Mar 06 20:04:17 and a few others Mar 06 20:05:56 this is on 2.1 ..it was working on 1.4.5, but that was a few days ago...so dunno Mar 06 20:06:20 can palm see the apps we install through preware Mar 06 20:06:46 no Mar 06 20:06:59 nice Mar 06 20:07:07 not that they really care. Mar 06 20:07:33 i got the 1.4.5 sprint nav on 2.1, i just hope i didnt do anything against the terms Mar 06 20:07:37 iirc installing certain things shuts off a lot of the reporting back to palm, at their request Mar 06 20:07:38 the software manager sees them Mar 06 20:09:01 Error454, I think it may have been about media sync Mar 06 20:09:30 RanginMind: ah, isn't there a patch for that? Mar 06 20:10:30 I saw that. I was more curious about the usb id that the Pre switches too and if that can be changed Mar 06 20:10:58 RagingMind: It can be changed quite easily, you are trying to spoof the id? Mar 06 20:12:08 RagingMind, ya Mar 06 20:12:40 Error454, Nifty. not sure what that could be used for off hand Mar 06 20:13:10 PuffTheMagic, I was wondering about the usb passthrough config. I noticed that it was removed from freetether Mar 06 20:13:18 RagingMind: I think it used to be spoofed to pretend you were an ipod Mar 06 20:13:23 it was? Mar 06 20:13:56 Error454, I had thoughts of changing it so that it pretended to be one of the iPods that HP made, but now that I think about it I'm not sure if the iPod+HP ones were firewire or USB Mar 06 20:14:43 ok help with install webosdk on fedora .. here is the info Mar 06 20:14:46 [12:12] guide http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/MojoSDK_on_Fedora Mar 06 20:14:50 PuffTheMagic, I can't find it in the one I have installed. and it would be nifty to at least be able to set the ACM port to DUN passthrough, cause then it's easy to tether a computer directly with the modem Mar 06 20:14:53 RagingMind: It's just sitting in the .config file CONFIG_USB_ROCKHOPPER_MANUFACTURER_STRING="Palm Inc." Mar 06 20:15:02 . /etc/sysconfig/modules/VirtualBox-OSE.modules < -- according to the guide i run this and it installs the modesl .. i get an error . .the guide has no error fix .. thi is the error i get when i run the above command http://pastie.org/1640423 Mar 06 20:15:06 anyone ? Mar 06 20:15:45 RagingMind, are u on 2.x? Mar 06 20:16:51 Yup. 2.1 Mar 06 20:17:16 do u have usb options at all? cause they are worded different in 2.x vs 1.4.5 Mar 06 20:17:24 the patch for enabling the passthrough app doesn't apply... but I manually edited the files and have that part of it working Mar 06 20:18:18 I have an option to turn USB "on" in freetether Mar 06 20:18:25 but no config for it Mar 06 20:18:35 it was the same when I was on 1.4.5 just before I updated Mar 06 20:18:44 Josef_B: you probably need dkms and the kernel headers installed as well Mar 06 20:18:58 Josef_B, dkms on fedora? Mar 06 20:19:05 RagingMind, i think egaudet decided to automate it and not let people be confused by the options Mar 06 20:19:13 or whatever their equivelant is Mar 06 20:20:14 PuffTheMagic, ah... well... the modem passthrough tether method is a handy option :) Mar 06 20:20:42 modem passthough tether option? Mar 06 20:20:44 maybe just one config? select either USBnet or CDC_modem or something? Mar 06 20:20:49 wtf do u do with modem passthrough? Mar 06 20:20:53 http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads there are some instructions on this page too Mar 06 20:21:32 heh, can you use dialup over USB that way? Mar 06 20:22:30 PuffTheMagic, if I set the "ACM USB port" to "DUN" then I can load usbserial on my linux box (with the right info so it finds the pre) then I can use the modem through /dev/ttyUSB0 and connect to the internet after setting up PPP Mar 06 20:22:37 Loudergood, yup Mar 06 20:22:42 * Loudergood actually has a dialup account so he could test that... Mar 06 20:22:57 Loudergood, not dial up to another service Mar 06 20:22:59 RagingMind, #777 internet or u actually dialing some ISP? Mar 06 20:23:11 #777 verizon 3g internet Mar 06 20:23:24 ooh that internet... Mar 06 20:23:26 like I used to do when I used my RAZR as a modem Mar 06 20:23:36 you prob dont want to do it that way Mar 06 20:23:44 sloooow Mar 06 20:23:48 I used to do that.... was fun Mar 06 20:23:53 and almost free Mar 06 20:23:57 it shouldnt be slow Mar 06 20:24:01 but easier to track by carrier Mar 06 20:24:34 i mean why would u do that when u can just use usbnet Mar 06 20:24:41 there are some programs that don't like being behind a nat, so I figured having the computer connect directly could be handy Mar 06 20:24:55 what programs? Mar 06 20:25:07 voip in particular Mar 06 20:25:10 games Mar 06 20:25:32 sounds like an iptables issue Mar 06 20:25:33 without playing with ip tables to enable port forwarding... I figured this would be easier Mar 06 20:25:34 not a nat issue Mar 06 20:25:51 iptables and ipforwarding are different issues Mar 06 20:27:42 http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/IP-Masquerade-HOWTO/forwarders.html Mar 06 20:28:16 iptables is how I'm familiar with doing port forwarding on linux Mar 06 20:31:49 sorry i read that wrong Mar 06 20:31:57 thought u said ip forwarding not port forwarding Mar 06 20:32:55 whats good? Mar 06 20:33:20 there are ways around ip_forward Mar 06 20:35:43 Hello again. I seem to be having connection issues Mar 06 20:37:22 well then Mar 06 20:37:42 who knew if you turned compressed air upside down it became flammable Mar 06 20:37:55 halfhalo, the can tells you that... Mar 06 20:37:59 lol Mar 06 20:38:08 mine didn't.... Mar 06 20:38:17 then yours is faulty Mar 06 20:38:31 its fry's branded, thats a given Mar 06 20:38:38 hahaha Mar 06 20:38:58 I have to wash my mouth out with mouthwash every time I eat or drink anything other than water now Mar 06 20:39:03 for 4 weeks... Mar 06 20:39:43 why Mar 06 20:39:52 heh Mar 06 20:40:30 stab wound Mar 06 20:40:50 got stabbed earlier Mar 06 20:41:09 o.O Mar 06 20:41:35 it's ok... I paid the guy to do it, lol Mar 06 20:42:06 i don't doubht that with you Mar 06 20:42:26 got another piercing today Mar 06 20:46:00 preware cause webos to crash Mar 06 20:46:05 caused* Mar 06 20:46:13 tapped it and phone rebooted Mar 06 20:47:57 anyone know why the rootfs on 2.1 (pre- via metadoctor) is super small relative to a 1.4.5 setup? Mar 06 20:48:20 or how to enlarge it? Mar 06 20:48:51 hey! a laptop! Mar 06 20:49:53 I don;t remember getting an hp tho.... Mar 06 20:51:48 halfhalo, whatcha talking about? Mar 06 20:52:01 found an hp laptop in my closet Mar 06 20:52:13 ahh Mar 06 20:52:51 lol Mar 06 20:53:22 any navit experts here atm? Mar 06 20:54:05 this is not a rare of an event as you may think for me Mar 06 20:55:33 ok, how about anyone who has gotten navit to work on webos at all? Mar 06 20:55:36 i think i still have a netbook in the firesafeofdoom Mar 06 20:55:57 bitflung: whose your service provider Mar 06 20:56:16 dumbledore_: t-mobile Mar 06 20:56:29 why? Mar 06 20:57:45 i know the gps works, if that's what you're thinking is the issue; though navit throws an error at launch: "vehicle_webos:vehicle_webos_callback:Location Callback errorCode -1990" Mar 06 20:59:46 i've got it up and running, with no errors thrown regarding the maps themselves. but the above error is thrown regarding the gps, and the navit.xml modification to set the default center location doesn't seem to work (though i'm not ruling out user error here) Mar 06 21:00:39 what's goin on? Mar 06 21:02:03 bitflung: what is you rproblem Mar 06 21:02:13 PatrickC_Pre: regarding my navit woes? or is that just a 'howdy folks' question? Mar 06 21:02:15 he wants navit on 2.1 Mar 06 21:02:22 dumbledore_: yup Mar 06 21:02:28 just a howdy all Mar 06 21:02:31 lol Mar 06 21:02:32 should work with the current release. Mar 06 21:02:36 I don't use navit sorry Mar 06 21:02:50 i got 1.4.5's sprint nav on 2.1 dosent work tho Mar 06 21:02:58 dumbledore_: can you pastbin the navit.log Mar 06 21:03:02 im assuimg tmobile would be the same issue tho Mar 06 21:03:06 i dont have navit :3 Mar 06 21:03:19 bitflung: can you pastbin the navit.log Mar 06 21:03:27 dumbledore_: sorry wrong nick Mar 06 21:03:31 hape: i've got navit running, but it won't read my location from the gps and changing the center location in navit.xml hasn't changed my starting posistion in the app - i haven't been able to observe a maps layer at all yet Mar 06 21:03:31 its ok Mar 06 21:03:40 sure Mar 06 21:04:15 what are the side effects of increasing comcache size Mar 06 21:04:22 bitflung: That is normal. I you do not get gps data then Nvit will put you to the north pole. I expect you do not have that part of the map Mar 06 21:04:48 bitflung: can you pastbin the navit.log, I can only help you if I get the messages that are going wrong Mar 06 21:06:04 hape: right - i read that. and the fix is to a) get a gps fix (don't know why i dont get one), or b) add some meaningful default coordinates in navit.xml: Mar 06 21:06:07 bitflung: and check the version in the Navi menu. It has to be 0.5.0 m4254 that is the currewnt version that works on WebOS 2.1 Mar 06 21:06:23 i'm switching to usb drive mode to get the log out for pastebin Mar 06 21:07:38 bbl bye guys Mar 06 21:08:56 does anyone have the steps on how to change the device info in 2.1? its reporting 1.4.5... Mar 06 21:10:15 hape: http://pastebin.com/yPWLnfx7 Mar 06 21:11:10 hape: version, that must be the issue. this was a fresh install from preware about 1 hour ago, gut i have 0.2.0 3490M Mar 06 21:11:40 i'm confused how such an old version was presented as the download form preware... Mar 06 21:13:35 yep, me too sould not happen Mar 06 21:13:52 can you please remove it via preware Mar 06 21:13:52 either i've got something wrong with my preware install, or the instructions are wrong here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Navit#Where_do_you_get_the_latest_version_of_Navit_for_WebOS_1.4.5_and_above_.3F Mar 06 21:14:00 ok Mar 06 21:14:26 the restart ptreware and reload the feeds. check the version number of navit before you install Mar 06 21:14:44 ok Mar 06 21:15:14 if all this do no help the downalod the apckage manually and install it via WOQS or entwe the url in the preware install dialog Mar 06 21:15:17 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/armv7/org.webosinternals.navit_0.5.0.4254-2_armv7.ipk Mar 06 21:17:20 preware shows an update available for navit - i haven't uninstalled yet - the updated version is 0.5.0 4254-2 Mar 06 21:17:41 bad form to just update it? Mar 06 21:18:16 just wondering..anyone have problems with camera app in 2.1 with uberkenel in screenstate mode? Mine opens but doesnt show the view...when its fixed or palm default it works Mar 06 21:19:02 dumbledore_: this is by design and unless you're on sprint or world-ready device it currently *needs* to report 1.4.5 Mar 06 21:19:10 otherwise you end up with 9.9.9 Mar 06 21:19:42 oh Mar 06 21:19:55 im on sprint Mar 06 21:20:09 dumbledore_: to the app catalog and services, that is. device info on the device itself should be showing the proper version if you removed the masquerading per the wiki article Mar 06 21:20:32 dumbledore_: after updating the pal-info file with the unmasq version, you'll see 2.1.0 in device info Mar 06 21:20:53 yeah, i need the steps on how to update it Mar 06 21:21:00 it seems like it was removed from the wiki article Mar 06 21:21:21 dumbledore_: ah because masquerading is not necessary any longer with the newer version of the metadoctor scripts Mar 06 21:21:24 on sprint, anyway Mar 06 21:21:34 oh lol Mar 06 21:21:48 and for the other devices they now have an auto-masqeurade feature if you need it Mar 06 21:21:50 i used the earlier script Mar 06 21:21:59 oh Mar 06 21:22:12 where do i send the unmasqed file Mar 06 21:22:14 dumbledore_: easiest way is to update your checkout of the metadoctor and do it again Mar 06 21:22:17 hape: i ran the update from preware and navit got a gps lock in seconds. thanks - i don't know how i screwed that up, but it was the wrong version over here. Mar 06 21:22:57 eh ok Mar 06 21:23:21 dumbledore_: if you really don't want to doctor you can look at the earlier revisions of the wiki to find the steps to remove the 1.4.5 build info and restore it back to 2.1.0 but you still need an erase data and applications to log back in Mar 06 21:23:30 may be easier just to build a new doctor and doctor Mar 06 21:23:38 after updating metadoctor to the new version Mar 06 21:24:53 dumbledore_: other option is to just look at the earlier version of the wiki to find the old steps and NOT wipe / relogin, this will leave you masqueraded as 1.4.5 to the palm services since it was 1.4.5 when you logged in Mar 06 21:25:10 yeah i'll do that Mar 06 21:25:19 you won't be able to install 2.x apps but at least the version will report properly to device info and preware etc Mar 06 21:25:34 bitflung: good to here. Perhaps you had not refreshed your feeds. The new version was just uploaded yesterday Mar 06 21:27:52 fair enough - thanks again for the help - now i've just got to figure out how to use it - off the RTFM :) Mar 06 21:30:08 heh got it :D Mar 06 21:30:08 reading some and skipping most of the conversation.... I have navit working wonderfully on 2.1 Mar 06 21:30:32 why wont i be able to install 2.1 apps? Mar 06 21:30:53 bitflung, in the US don't count on navit actually providing navigation Mar 06 21:31:36 RagingMind: really? is the map data incomplete? Mar 06 21:31:49 it looks about right for my neck of the woods.. Mar 06 21:32:09 there's an explanation in one of the wikis... it has to do with the OSM data Mar 06 21:32:39 the road segments are missing the information about what city/township they are in Mar 06 21:32:58 ahh Mar 06 21:33:36 so navit has to guess, using the "size" of a city and an approximate radius or something Mar 06 21:34:20 hrm - that's too bad. but won't that mostly just affect the selection of a destination? ie: if i scroll around and manually pick a location to navigate too, i'd expect the routing to work? Mar 06 21:34:39 and I've tried making bookmarks (to bypass the city search stuff) but I can't get it to actually navigate between 2 bookmark points or from my current location to a bookmark Mar 06 21:35:46 that part is supposed to work... so I think I'm either missing something or maybe I picked 2 points that were too far apart and it couldn't find a way between them? *shrugs* Mar 06 21:36:06 bitflung, if you have any luck with it, please fill me in, heh Mar 06 21:37:14 you got it - though it sounds like i've got a ways to go with trial and error before i catch up to where you are. if i get it working somehow though, i'll be in here bragging ;) Mar 06 21:38:41 oh... and I suggest turning off the "autozoom" every time you open it... it might be okay when navigating, but when just using it as a map it's super annoying Mar 06 21:40:52 i think i messed up my pre... Mar 06 21:41:13 when i slide up the slider, the screen would fade and the phone will reboot Mar 06 21:41:15 RagingMind: you should try updating your navit install - i just panned the map around to my home address (i'm at work right now, 7 miles away) and pressed 'set as destination'. immediately the routing kicked in and told me to 'turn right soon' Mar 06 21:41:55 so i set my home location (panned to same spot, clicke dit and set as a bookmark) and started navigation from there - it's givning me directions this way too Mar 06 21:42:45 ah... okay for a short distance it's working Mar 06 21:42:55 but going from here to my mom's house... nuthin happens Mar 06 21:43:01 the auto-zoom feature is a little bit too aggresive, as is the 'map follows vehicle' feature. so i'd suggest turning those off while you pan around looking for the right spot Mar 06 21:43:11 how far away is that? Mar 06 21:43:31 about 7 to 8 hours Mar 06 21:44:47 oh wow Mar 06 21:45:03 yeah - so if it's worth using a gps for it, then it doesn't work... Mar 06 21:45:03 and on the route I just did, it got most of it right, but there's one spot where the blue line leaps to the north or south pole depending on what zoom level I'm at Mar 06 21:45:53 bitflung, I'm gonna test other distances... my mom and I live on two different peninsula's that are only connected by one bridge Mar 06 21:46:16 RagingMind: , bitflung you can use bfgmaps to search the destination and then let it start Navit to guide you thee Mar 06 21:46:31 so if there's something wrong with the data around the bridge... it's not gonna be able to connect us without putting me through chicago, but that's not in my dataset Mar 06 21:46:49 the patch you need for it to work is here http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/275458-patch-bfgmaps-klicktel-support-navit-routing.html Mar 06 21:47:10 hape, are you the developer? Mar 06 21:47:23 It sould work on webOS2 also, but you need to install Inernals as the patch needs the fileservice form it Mar 06 21:48:30 RagingMind: noradtux_ made the most part of the Port, I help him herer and there Mar 06 21:48:46 RagingMind: i just created a route from western mass to cape cod (my home to family) and the route looks good. maybe you've got some corrupt or incomplete map data? Mar 06 21:48:47 port of? Mar 06 21:48:55 oh, navit? Mar 06 21:49:12 I have internals, but bfgmaps is... slow and ugly Mar 06 21:49:19 hape: bfg maps, eh? nice, i'll got check it out Mar 06 21:49:52 RagingMind: (me to cape code == 3.5 hours on a good day) Mar 06 21:49:55 bfg is very utilitarian, has nifty features, but I couldn't stand using it Mar 06 21:50:29 I'm guessing something is happening at the Mackinac Bridge Mar 06 21:52:26 has teh 2.1 kernels been taken down from preware? Mar 06 21:54:07 Navit is developed by the navit team => http://wiki.navit-project.org/ Mar 06 21:54:07 We only made the chnages to get it running on Webos and packed it up for WebOS Mar 06 21:54:13 need to go to sleep, see you. Mar 06 21:58:57 wierd, none of the patches im installing seems to be holding in place Mar 06 22:00:10 they're gone after reboot Mar 06 22:01:34 gnight hape Mar 06 22:38:05 Has anyone here messed around with node.js? Mar 06 22:41:05 clever boot screen :D Mar 06 22:42:34 dumbledore_- what boot screen ? Mar 06 22:46:14 i just used the meta-doctor script to make a new script Mar 06 22:46:19 a new doctor* Mar 06 22:46:30 upon first boot, i see the linux penguin Mar 06 22:48:14 now i see sprint apps :D Mar 06 22:50:29 hehe Mar 06 22:50:37 Error454: a bit Mar 06 23:08:40 how do i get the firstuse app to show in 2.1? Mar 06 23:09:36 fudge_: which wiki page are you following? Mar 06 23:11:44 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_2_Upgrade Mar 06 23:12:44 looks like i'll have to re-doctor again Mar 06 23:13:19 it says "Dr. Skipped firstuse" Mar 06 23:31:15 /whois [r] Mar 06 23:31:20 sorry Mar 06 23:31:22 wrong chan Mar 06 23:31:23 lmao Mar 06 23:33:11 When using the ipk packager, I'm confused which directory I'm supposed to give it. Mar 06 23:44:41 Error454: yeah, it's confusing. One level down, the inner one. Mar 06 23:49:08 m-h-k: So not the one with all of the pre/post install scripts? Mar 06 23:51:53 error: let me check.. 1 sec Mar 06 23:53:43 if you have .../somedir/ with the files control, postinst and prerm in it, and you have .../somedir/files/ with all the actual files of the package, then you are supposed to select .../somedir/files Mar 06 23:54:22 (inside .../somedir/files/ you have usr, etc, ...) Mar 06 23:54:45 found out why none of my apps/patches werent staying Mar 06 23:54:47 hmm, so then if I'm packaging a service along with an app, would I choose the app or the service, I have src/app/files and src/service/files Mar 06 23:55:04 i set the filesystem to read only by mistake in novaterm :3 Mar 06 23:55:27 I did it wrong the first time, and when I installed the package it tried to unpack to /media/cryptfs/palm/files/usr instead of /media/cryptfs/palm/usr Mar 06 23:56:05 Error, now you are asking too much from me... I only packaged apps Mar 06 23:56:50 I am not sure if you can package app and service into one ipk Mar 06 23:57:06 You may need to make two ipks and set up a dependency Mar 06 23:57:20 that makes sense Mar 06 23:57:33 let me check something Mar 06 23:59:33 hm.. I suppose the right-hand side of Ipk Packager is only for the Preware information? Where you select Type: Application or Type: Service Mar 06 23:59:57 my hunch was that it was cosmetic only Mar 07 00:00:06 I mean you can always take a look at the IPK of an existing service Mar 07 00:00:40 I am guessing it builds the appinfo.json file or something which is used by Ipk tools to tell something about the Ipk Mar 07 00:00:58 Like in Preware where you can select what type of package you are looking for Mar 07 00:01:16 I have examples of existing services and I'm setup the same as them, just not sure how they were packaged Mar 07 00:01:17 Or such that an app catalog only shows you stuff you can install on your version of webOS Mar 07 00:01:37 well I mean does their IPK only contain the service and not the app? Mar 07 00:01:57 theirs has both Mar 07 00:02:17 Hm. Maybe Ipk Packager cannot build those. Mar 07 00:02:28 it's a web of complication, obfuscation and tears Mar 07 00:02:51 no tears please. Frustration I can take and have lived with for quite some while, but not tears? Mar 07 00:03:10 I'll kick the tires more tomorrow and once I figure it out I'll wiki it Mar 07 00:03:22 Thanks for your effort, appreciated Mar 07 00:03:22 Heh, cool thanks. Mar 07 00:03:26 np Mar 07 00:03:31 I don't really know these things :) Mar 07 00:03:37 that makes 2 of us Mar 07 00:04:00 heck I have never gotten so far as acutally writing any webOS code Mar 07 00:04:27 Error454: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=support/package.mk is how we package apps in WebOS Internals Mar 07 00:05:22 in particular, we use ipkg-build from http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree;f=toolchain/ipkg-utils Mar 07 00:05:54 hope he reads the log later Mar 07 00:09:52 is it safe to leave the filesystem open (read/write permissions)? Mar 07 00:10:08 if i put it as read-only, i cant install any apps/patches Mar 07 00:12:56 you're doing it wrong then. Preware makes it read-write as required. Mar 07 00:14:46 yeah i figured lol Mar 07 00:15:01 can i install pakages with special parameters Mar 07 00:15:15 with preware* Mar 07 00:15:23 there are no such things Mar 07 00:15:36 like with "-force-depends Mar 07 00:15:39 i see Mar 07 00:16:13 fudge_: what type of package management system are you coming from? Mar 07 00:16:16 ok, now I see what you are doing (installing carrier applications into the root filesystem, not normal apps) Mar 07 00:16:24 yeah Mar 07 00:16:36 well, it might have been a good idea to state that up front, no? Mar 07 00:16:38 ignore me then Mar 07 00:16:42 :3 Mar 07 00:16:48 lol sorry summatus1entis :P Mar 07 00:16:55 no, no worries Mar 07 00:16:55 sorry im bad at explaining Mar 07 00:17:23 the only way to install such carrier app packages is on the linux command line on the device. Mar 07 00:17:33 so get terminal app? Mar 07 00:17:38 novaterm Mar 07 00:17:57 ok Mar 07 00:18:22 presumably the instructions you are following already state this? Mar 07 00:19:59 says to use novacom (which is what im using) but i get "Filesystem is read-only" error Mar 07 00:23:03 is it readonly? Mar 07 00:23:59 hm, actually, if I mount -o remount,rw / will this be remembered across reboots? Mar 07 00:26:24 m-h-k: no Mar 07 00:26:41 sorry Mar 07 00:26:45 was afk Mar 07 00:27:13 whats the default state of the filesystem Mar 07 00:27:14 destinal: ok, good, no unexpected magic Mar 07 00:27:56 m-h-k: default state either comes from the fstab or /etc/init. not sure which offhand for / Mar 07 00:28:45 rootfs_open has a number of arguments, and it's a readable script. Mar 07 00:30:49 heh got it working :D Mar 07 00:31:28 used an older version of WOSQI for the Linux Commandline option and it just worked Mar 07 00:32:10 used the exact same line in novaterm and was bombarded by errors about filesystem being readonly Mar 07 00:36:22 any instructions should already say to use rootfs_open -t to temporarily make the rootfs read-write Mar 07 00:36:49 note that the wosqi command line fails for multi-line output. Mar 07 00:37:03 I would not recommend using it for anything significant. Mar 07 00:37:18 Novaterm is the official Palm SDK utility for accessing the Linux command line. Mar 07 00:37:59 it is also guaranteed to work for any future webOS device or OS version Mar 07 00:40:50 * oil only uses novaterm to setup ssh Mar 07 01:05:38 Hi Mar 07 01:09:43 hi NuttyBunny Mar 07 01:12:22 I have been watching the HP wrap videos from MWC and the demo video of WebOS by Sachin Kansal is amazing. It is really cool to see a demo that actually shows the power of the TouchPad and WebOS 3. Mar 07 01:19:47 Whats the safest kernel right now for 2.1? Mar 07 01:20:23 fudge_: the palm stock kernel. all others are in the testing feed, therefore not "safe" Mar 07 01:21:08 ok Mar 07 01:26:50 speaking of "safe" kernels... rod: I am glad you were able to see the camera/screenstate issue yourself Mar 07 01:27:09 (which just proves the point of "testing") Mar 07 01:32:42 im just gonna stay under 700mhz, 2.1 is plenty fast enough on 500mhz Mar 07 01:33:03 is it? ;) Mar 07 01:33:12 lol for me :P Mar 07 01:33:28 I like to push the edge a little. Mar 07 01:34:08 First time I ran it it felt horrible against my tuned 1.4.5 pre Mar 07 01:34:18 2.1? Mar 07 01:34:22 i've finally found time to test the new sprint-pre metadoctor (i know, i'm late :P) ... have we found any major bugs with it being on the pre? Mar 07 01:34:23 yeah Mar 07 01:34:26 lol Mar 07 01:34:37 i was blown away with 2.1's performance Mar 07 01:35:02 what kernel do yuo use m-h-k? Mar 07 01:35:05 well it's not bad, but a 800 MHz 1.4.5 pre beats it. Mar 07 01:35:44 Right now I am using uberkernel-11. There are some issues with it though. If you use the screenstate governor, the camera might not work. Mar 07 01:36:03 i oc'd the pre to 1ghz on 1.4.5. fastest phone i've used yet. i was tempted to try the stealth kernel, but didnt want to end up with a molten pre Mar 07 01:36:29 yeah both my Pre- run 1 GHz too but it just sucks so much battery Mar 07 01:36:53 so I run screenstate 500/800 on my regular 1.4.5 pre Mar 07 01:36:53 another good point :3 Mar 07 01:37:07 ah yeah, i was just reading that ... i'm amazed it's working at all; and props to all involved for getting it functional so quickly. Mar 07 01:37:18 indeed Mar 07 01:37:36 what are the consequences for increasing compcache limit Mar 07 01:37:42 yeah *bows to woi* Mar 07 01:37:53 my 1.4.5 pre- runs 1ghz and loses about 2-3%/hr when idle, i'm happy with that. Mar 07 01:37:57 well one of the consequences is that you have more compcache Mar 07 01:38:11 webfellow: mine is seldom idle ;) Mar 07 01:38:27 haha well mine's only idle when working and sleeping :) Mar 07 01:38:52 but signal at work is bout 40%, so battery drains regardless if i don't leave it plugged in. Mar 07 01:38:58 sleep, yeah, well it's on the touchstone then. don't care how much juice it draws when I am sleeping ;) Mar 07 01:39:39 oh yeah, now i can see the difference with overclocking :D Mar 07 01:39:45 and the other touchstone is at my desk.. I guess it really only has to survive the commute, and meetings ;) Mar 07 01:40:04 touchstone in car fixes the commute Mar 07 01:40:06 fudge: see.. told ya ;) Mar 07 01:40:32 yeah, everything is jsut soo... smooth Mar 07 01:40:33 i'll gladly take a 1ghz oc and be forced to keep it charged any day. Mar 07 01:40:34 they should put them in public transport and meeting rooms too Mar 07 01:40:50 rwhitby: agreed! Mar 07 01:40:54 rwhitby: true, I have to fiddle with the cable there (car)... but frankly, my commute is often by public transport, and I have yet to see touchstones in our busses and subway ;) Mar 07 01:41:10 haha think alike Mar 07 01:41:22 i am really hoping for the Pre3 soon, definitely looking fwd to the hardware upgrade. Mar 07 01:41:50 but truely, a mobile phone should survive a few hours without charging Mar 07 01:42:09 * m-h-k wonders if the Pre3 will finally have a larger battery. Mar 07 01:42:20 yup Mar 07 01:42:31 larger screen = more power Mar 07 01:42:31 poor pre- is developing a crack from usb port ... i swear i've been hit by every single hardware issue over the 5 replacements i've had. too bad i love this phone haha. Mar 07 01:42:45 dunno what the numbers are but its public info Mar 07 01:42:55 yeah battery is larger Mar 07 01:43:32 professional power workhorse needs juice for a whole day Mar 07 01:43:37 sigh. not much more: 1230 mAh Mar 07 01:43:46 http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre3/index.html Mar 07 01:43:53 oh, that's not too exciting Mar 07 01:44:06 * Tibfib isn't worried Mar 07 01:44:25 the battery life on my pre2 has been good Mar 07 01:44:49 * rwhitby wishes the battery would have been the same size and form factor as the other 10 Pre/Pre2 batteries he has already Mar 07 01:45:10 ah yeah Mar 07 01:45:27 that little pocket in jeans on the hip is just the perfect size for a spare Pre battery Mar 07 01:45:36 as long as the touchstone fits... I am ok with it Mar 07 01:45:47 rwhitby: nice, i just tried that, i've been missing out. Mar 07 01:46:07 rwhitby: that's tweet worthy :) Mar 07 01:46:18 heh Mar 07 01:46:22 yes, don't keep that quiet. :) Mar 07 01:46:27 or precentral tip of the day Mar 07 01:46:33 what's tweet worthy? Mar 07 01:46:44 "that little pocket in jeans on the hip is just the perfect size for a spare Pre battery" ;) Mar 07 01:47:03 oh, doesn't everyone do that already? Mar 07 01:47:09 nope Mar 07 01:47:20 never thought of it Mar 07 01:47:24 I've always wondered what that pocket is good for :P Mar 07 01:47:27 lol Mar 07 01:47:41 small flash drives fit there too Mar 07 01:47:42 * halfhalo doesnt carry a spare battery with him normally Mar 07 01:47:44 can't believe it took Palm so long to invent the battery that goes with it Mar 07 01:48:25 true, I've used it for usb flash drives Mar 07 01:48:34 * plem wonders if Palm and Levi's had a secret deal Mar 07 01:48:39 i used to keep change in that pocket ... but it's gone empty for years now :) Mar 07 01:48:42 the spare battery went into a little pocket in my phone pouch Mar 07 01:49:16 I just don't like swapping the battery on the Pre. Takes so long to reboot... Mar 07 01:49:34 rather recharge whenever possible. Mar 07 01:50:07 does the phone boot faster now that node.js replaces java services/ Mar 07 01:50:22 it does Mar 07 01:50:25 pre2 boots MUCH faster Mar 07 01:50:33 nice! Mar 07 01:50:39 no longer noticeably slow Mar 07 01:50:45 yeah actually even the Pre- boots faster with 2.1 Mar 07 01:51:29 can't wait for the Pre3 but it will be bitter sweet leaving my Pre- Mar 07 01:51:40 rwhitby: any further things to test with doctoring sprint pre- before i do mine? Mar 07 01:52:09 hello? Mar 07 01:52:13 webfellow: if you rely on Sprint Nav or PRL updates, forget it. Mar 07 01:53:30 yeah i was reading that ... although i'm EAS so i might try to get Nav to work... regarding PRL, does that mean i can't roam at all, or it just can't check for updates to roaming? Mar 07 01:53:53 dunno, I live in a country which has no CDMA networks Mar 07 01:53:59 gotcha :) Mar 07 01:54:03 could anyone explain what preware IS? Mar 07 01:54:07 i figured you wouldn't have first-hand on that. Mar 07 01:54:26 ~preware Mar 07 01:54:27 preware is probably the universal package installer for webOS, see the Preware Homebrew Documentation app in the official app catalog for installation instructions. Mar 07 01:54:43 nice Mar 07 01:55:27 more what im asking is, what would be the benefits? Mar 07 01:55:35 rwhitby: well if you don't have any specific things to test for it, i'll kick it off here in a bit when i finish confirming my backup Mar 07 01:55:52 af12093487: do you have a webOS device with app catalog access? Mar 07 01:56:00 af12093487: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware Mar 07 01:56:00 is it all explained on there? Mar 07 01:56:04 ill go get it then Mar 07 01:56:04 :P Mar 07 01:56:17 but the homebrew documentation app is better Mar 07 01:57:05 oh and since i've been out of it for a few weeks, any progress/thoughts/research into modifying the launcher icons binary? Mar 07 01:58:44 will this remove my contact data and such? Mar 07 01:59:08 installing preware? no. Mar 07 01:59:55 well then off i go Mar 07 02:00:11 have fun! Mar 07 02:00:31 ill bookmark this page :D Mar 07 02:01:20 yeah modding the software on a webos phone is much easier than randomly loading roms until you find one you like on android Mar 07 02:01:37 is webos 2.0 available from the dev. program? Mar 07 02:01:43 * Loudergood still has an issue with even calling them roms Mar 07 02:01:57 ok comparing boot times now, 1.4.5 vs. 2.1.0 on Pre- Mar 07 02:02:54 yeah, there are no ROMs on most mobile devices. Mar 07 02:03:45 talk about totally missing what the acronym stands for Mar 07 02:03:51 (apart from the very very tiny one inside the OMAP processor which cannot be changed without decapping a chip and using an ion beam ...) Mar 07 02:04:40 2.1.0 booted Mar 07 02:07:24 1.4.5 booted Mar 07 02:07:44 so, 50% faster? Mar 07 02:08:01 calculating... mom Mar 07 02:09:18 2.1.0 boots in 45% of the time that 1.4.5 boots here. 2m15s vs. 5m5s Mar 07 02:09:33 on which phone? Mar 07 02:09:42 but I must admit there are a few more apps on my 1.4.5 phone. Both are Pre-. Mar 07 02:09:48 very nice. maybe one day we'll have the near instant-on ability of new computers :) Mar 07 02:10:12 yeah, i just rebooted my pre...1.4.5..and it only took about 3 mins. Mar 07 02:10:17 heh, i'd love to see some faster storage on the phone Mar 07 02:10:46 flash chips can be very fast...my laptop boots almost as quickly as it resumes Mar 07 02:10:47 I am actually not sure why mine takes so long to boot. Mar 07 02:11:09 I'm sure part of it is kernel 2.6.24 Mar 07 02:11:34 Loudergood: you man part of the reason why 2.1.0 boots faster? Mar 07 02:11:39 s/man/mean Mar 07 02:11:47 nope not at all actually Mar 07 02:12:02 because I'm pretty sure they have the same kernel still Mar 07 02:12:22 what are you referring too then? Mar 07 02:12:45 just why it takes so long to boot overall Mar 07 02:12:50 oh Mar 07 02:12:54 ...is requesting to run a postinst. allow? Mar 07 02:13:12 what, preware? Mar 07 02:13:17 yeah Mar 07 02:13:22 allow? Mar 07 02:13:23 yeah Mar 07 02:13:31 since when is it asking? Mar 07 02:13:33 thanks Mar 07 02:14:18 af12093487: what version of Preware are you running? Mar 07 02:14:20 * m-h-k cannot remember ever having to allow postinst scripts. Mar 07 02:14:32 i just downloaded it Mar 07 02:14:43 off of quick install Mar 07 02:14:48 soooo lemme see Mar 07 02:14:48 m-h-k: yep, version <1 i think Mar 07 02:14:49 af12093487: I suspect you are not following the instructions in the Preware Homebrew Documentation app ... Mar 07 02:15:09 ie, it's been a while. Mar 07 02:15:27 that would be because i am using the wiki! Mar 07 02:15:28 af12093487: is preware asking you that questions, or is webos quick install asking you that question? Mar 07 02:15:37 webos quick install Mar 07 02:15:44 phone just restarted Mar 07 02:15:45 ah, answer yes. Mar 07 02:15:45 checking Mar 07 02:15:51 oh. Mar 07 02:15:58 preware is successful Mar 07 02:16:17 ah, that explains. I usually just novaterm in and wget/run the bootstrap script Mar 07 02:16:19 af12093487: that should be the last time you need to use webos quick install - you can do everything on-device using preware now Mar 07 02:16:40 i thought it seemed so Mar 07 02:16:40 * rwhitby uses palm-install Mar 07 02:16:45 thanks for the helps Mar 07 02:17:14 af12093487: one way to show your thanks is to purchase the PHD app Mar 07 02:17:25 ;) Mar 07 02:17:28 i'd highly suggest it! Mar 07 02:17:37 same Mar 07 02:18:13 Preware is really cool, and rwhitby deserves all the appreciation.. :) Mar 07 02:18:13 Looks like the new testing feed Preware 1.5.5 Visibility feature has a subtle corner case we're not handling well. It causes kernels in the testing feed to be hidden :) Mar 07 02:18:13 associate with .ipk? Mar 07 02:18:18 yes Mar 07 02:18:36 rwhitby: what's that visibility thing supposed to do, actually? Mar 07 02:18:48 m-h-k: hide placeholders for things you don't have installed Mar 07 02:19:01 hah, oops. Mar 07 02:19:29 rwhitby: so how can I put a placeholder in place if I dont have it installed yet but am waiting for the 2.1.0 version to arrive? Mar 07 02:19:46 well, this is exactly what the testing feed is for. some people get a bit to comfortable with it, so we introduce a bug every now and again ... Mar 07 02:20:10 *g* Mar 07 02:20:23 m-h-k: we're going to make it so if you search for the exact name it shows up Mar 07 02:20:52 maybe a preference option as well Mar 07 02:20:55 oh i thought that option would be toggle-able, no? Mar 07 02:21:01 :) Mar 07 02:21:04 what would be the first thing i should install Mar 07 02:21:20 just suggestions Mar 07 02:21:20 af12093487: go through the Patches section. enjoy Mar 07 02:21:27 rwhitby: phew, that sounds awkward.. typing "SMS Vibrate to One and a Half Seconds" just to find the placeholder? Mar 07 02:21:53 af12093487: the Featured Apps in the Preware Homebrew Documentation app are a good start. See a pattern here ? ;) Mar 07 02:21:55 that doesn't work Mar 07 02:21:59 rwhitby: preferences option, please! Mar 07 02:22:24 af12093487: patches will enhance/fix various functionality, too much to describe here, read the descriptions :) Mar 07 02:22:50 *scrolling Mar 07 02:22:51 yeah, I guess we'll need a preference to make Visibility:Installed act like Visibility:Always Mar 07 02:23:19 patches welcome :) Mar 07 02:23:24 rwhitby: perhaps there is some other way to visually indicate placeholders? Like make them slightly greyed out in the lists... Mar 07 02:23:40 m-h-k: people simply don't want to see them Mar 07 02:23:44 patches are ALWAYS welcome Mar 07 02:23:46 (me included) Mar 07 02:23:50 * rwhitby bbl Mar 07 02:24:01 rwhitby: I mean for those that enable them via prefs Mar 07 02:24:45 * m-h-k begins to think he really needs to get into webOS programming... Mar 07 02:24:56 rwhitby, do you have any idea why the meta-doctor would always tell me that it's charging my phone?? Mar 07 02:25:09 yeah Mar 07 02:27:27 oh so i have an issue, though im not sure if this would be the right group to ask Mar 07 02:28:06 sometimes the phone will be connected to the 3g evdo or whatever, but will not download datat Mar 07 02:28:09 data* Mar 07 02:28:27 requires entering airplane mode, then leaving Mar 07 02:28:30 works fine after **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 07 02:59:57 2011