**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 15 02:59:58 2011 May 15 04:04:10 there is a russian webos community? May 15 04:04:40 It's probably more well, a russian webos warez site May 15 04:05:09 but at least he kind of proved that he would have been a miserable alpha tester May 15 04:07:20 huh? I'm lost lol May 15 04:08:03 SineOt: seriously, I doubt he would have given a word of feedback May 15 04:08:17 yup May 15 04:09:18 not true. I'm sure he would come back with a bunch of questions about stuff that is already documented. May 15 04:10:15 what are we talking about? :) May 15 04:10:24 * PatrickC doesn't have a bouncer up yet... May 15 04:10:51 guy earlier was trying to get the alpha for Linphone May 15 04:10:58 hey whatever happened with the VNC talk that was going on a few months back May 15 04:11:17 and instead of reading the Precentral thread and going through the proper way of getting access, dug it up on some russian warez site May 15 04:11:33 SineOt: was it spatulator? May 15 04:11:45 yup May 15 04:11:48 PatrickC: yes May 15 04:12:07 I was in here when he was asking for access... I directed him to rod May 15 04:12:23 well, he failed pretty hard at that May 15 04:14:11 has anyone used SimpleFTP? May 15 04:26:28 infobot: welcome back :) May 15 04:26:29 [all in unison] Hi, back :)! May 15 04:26:57 lol May 15 04:27:45 fail May 15 04:28:27 halfhalo: lighten up May 15 04:28:51 lol May 15 04:29:48 its dark out May 15 04:30:06 * halfhalo is not a flashlight May 15 04:31:49 but your pre is May 15 04:34:31 * halfhalo has no pre on him May 15 04:41:12 then how are you IRCing? May 15 04:42:35 I have... other devices? May 15 04:42:59 iOS/android devices I see.. lol May 15 04:43:09 I forgot about your android phone May 15 04:43:55 more than that May 15 04:44:21 well, a version ping only showed those devices May 15 04:47:19 preware really needs a cancel download button... or back gesture for canceling. closing and reopenning it just isn't elegant enough May 15 04:48:38 halfhalo: you really need to Sprintify that Pre2 it will be well worth it I promise. and you can ditch that stupid samsung May 15 04:51:44 rwhitby: make a note of that ^ May 15 04:52:43 I like the idea for a cancel/backswipe to stop download May 15 04:54:17 well it only makes sense. May 15 04:54:38 kinda stupid that its been overlooked for so long May 15 04:55:06 oil: you take a note of that as well. you are Mr. UI May 15 04:55:51 lol May 15 04:55:59 I heart my epics screen May 15 04:56:00 well.. I'm off to bed.. night all May 15 04:58:26 halfhalo: pre2 screen is amazing to and its not a stupid android phone you silly goose. May 15 04:59:03 are you afraid of the comboard swap? I think thats the problem. its ok its not for the faint of heart May 15 04:59:24 lol May 15 05:00:13 goodnight May 15 05:00:34 night May 15 05:01:30 amoled ftw May 15 05:01:36 * halfhalo has done swap before May 15 05:03:00 whatever dude... we get it... its ok May 15 05:03:55 yeah amoled is pretty nice looking May 15 05:04:25 its the only explanation why an avid webos user would turn to android while they have a pre2 May 15 05:05:15 * halfhalo is ditching sprint soon enough... lack of service everywhere May 15 05:05:34 * Jack87 has great sprint service everywhere May 15 05:05:36 Oh, but yeah... Conjecture May 15 05:05:53 * PatrickC has great sprint service everywhere May 15 05:06:00 Sprint will launch a slate webOS device in August which will coincide with the release of 3.0 for the Pre3 and possibly Veer May 15 05:06:10 Slate device being the "flagship" 3.0 phone May 15 05:06:17 * halfhalo has no service at home, work, or school May 15 05:06:39 for at home, get an Airave May 15 05:06:50 SineOt: define slate device... (is it no keyboard phone?) May 15 05:07:03 yep May 15 05:07:04 yeah May 15 05:07:19 meh May 15 05:07:21 there was a leaked photo of a keyboardless device May 15 05:07:35 SineOt: what about this 6 month exclusivity talk about the veer on att? May 15 05:08:00 and the paired code names Mantaray and Stingray, and well, the Pre3 being one of the two leaves a matching similar device May 15 05:08:14 and what would fit better than a Pre3 without a keyboard? May 15 05:09:13 is the virtual keyboard in webOS 2.x or only 3.x May 15 05:09:35 Jack87: I dunno, it's probably contractual but honestly... What else could they do with it? They've never launched a Tmo device and the only other options are both CDMA carriers and there's no other US GSM carrier that runs on the Veer's radio bands May 15 05:09:38 there is a vkb in 2.x.. but its very unstable iirc May 15 05:09:50 So... 6 months from now I'd expect to see a CDMA Veer launch :p May 15 05:10:11 yeah the virtual keyboard in 2.0 is buggy as hell, it's basically the alpha version of what's in 3.0 now May 15 05:11:53 I wonder if verizon actually cares about webos devices anymore. I mean they ignored it and pushed droid now they are pushing iphone I'm sure. May 15 05:12:35 Yeah, but then they picked up the Pre2 May 15 05:13:01 sprint pushed the pre and it but them in the ass due to shitty hardware so I'm sure they are treding really careful now and not going to out all their eggs in one basket anymore May 15 05:13:01 After the Droid push and the looming release of the iPhone 4 May 15 05:13:38 ya... but all the Pre 2 is used for is insurance replacment of pre plus owners May 15 05:13:57 and no longer free mobile hot spot from what I understand May 15 05:14:09 Yeah, but in the past when I've dealt with insurance replacements for devices... They've just offered something "similar" May 15 05:14:24 picking up a new device just to use it as an insurance replacement would be a dumb move May 15 05:14:35 when they could just offer a cheap android set or something May 15 05:14:49 I had a few Motorolas that they wanted to replace with some beater Nokias May 15 05:15:09 so they obviously have had no qualms in the past about giving you way worse hardware as warranty replacements May 15 05:15:35 so to avoid that they picked up a pre2 no? May 15 05:15:49 why would the avoid it though? They've done it a ton in the past May 15 05:16:36 and have a pretty sizeable Android selection if they were going to go Smartphone to Smartphone May 15 05:16:49 I just hate how apple has saturated the market with their shitty software and over priced hardware May 15 05:17:37 For being "shitty" iOS sure set the bar and continually gets cloned by everything else on the market May 15 05:18:50 yup May 15 05:19:03 * halfhalo may or may not be on the ipads May 15 05:19:03 for the record I don't think iOS is shitty. Does some stuff stupid, sure, but everything at this point still does a lot of stupid stuff in one way or another May 15 05:19:35 but iOS has so many limitations I feel so clostofobic on ios devices. but it does have awesome ada/accessibility features May 15 05:19:57 well, like what? I'm curious really May 15 05:20:02 * Jack87 knows halfhalo is on an ipad May 15 05:20:31 like what as in accessibility? May 15 05:20:34 Multitasking is a bit lame but that's one of the stupid things it does May 15 05:20:46 no, what makes you feel claustrophobic for it May 15 05:20:48 * oil prefers to not be under a totalitarianism regime May 15 05:20:59 webos lets me do what i want May 15 05:21:24 Lies May 15 05:21:39 Hmm.. May 15 05:21:57 Locked myself out of my phone May 15 05:23:03 haha for one the crappy multitasking. the lack of easily accessing the internal, not being able to store things on the device other then music and videos which you must sync with itunes. and reliance on itunes May 15 05:23:46 oil: cancel button/back swipe for download stoppage in preware. to do list... write it down May 15 05:23:57 i saw your comment May 15 05:24:03 You can store stuff on device, it's just not really as simple as like, mounting the device as a drive May 15 05:24:20 which mostly is a side effect of it running an HFS+ file system to my knowledge May 15 05:25:19 but that is one of the reasons I feel so claustrophobic. and I think its done intentionally by apple. May 15 05:25:45 i remember disabling the backswipe while an install is happening haha May 15 05:26:01 well of course it's done intentionally :p May 15 05:26:08 HFS+ lets you store more than 4GB files May 15 05:26:20 the only other option for support on both mac and windows would have been fat32 May 15 05:26:29 oil: add a prompt... when back swipping during download process as a warning May 15 05:26:45 that it will leave the service in an unusable state requireing a restart? May 15 05:27:03 best to not let them muck it up May 15 05:27:27 "If you want to cancel it, why did you try to install it in the first place?" May 15 05:27:56 i can see reasons for wanting a cancel but to implement it is a lot of work May 15 05:27:56 lol SineOt is sounding like steve jobs May 15 05:28:04 like "i didn May 15 05:28:12 didn't realize this app was 100mb" May 15 05:28:30 its a bitch while downloading a large application 50Mb+ and wanting to stop May 15 05:28:45 hehe that's what happened to me earlier today May 15 05:28:47 you should note that closing hte app does not stop the service May 15 05:29:02 nah, it's more like I raged about it when I got an iPod touch and then realized that it was easier to just deal with it than rage that Apple didn't write an NTFS driver for Windows XP lol May 15 05:29:14 er, an HFS+ not NTFS May 15 05:29:45 lol no I ment the ' "If you want to cancel it, why did you try to install it in the first place?"' May 15 05:29:53 oh, haha May 15 05:29:56 yeah well, it's true May 15 05:29:56 "you're holding it wrong" May 15 05:30:09 yeah, you're all holding it wrong May 15 05:30:15 I'm the only one who holds the Pre the right way May 15 05:30:19 "oh, that was a "bug" that we found" May 15 05:31:23 steve jobs would say.. if you wanted to close an application why did you open it in the first place :) May 15 05:31:42 nah, he's not that dense :p May 15 05:31:44 actually he did say that haha May 15 05:31:58 ah, with what app? May 15 05:32:16 someone asked who you close them in his keynote and he replied 'why would you want to close it' May 15 05:32:34 how you close what May 15 05:32:38 iOS apps? May 15 05:32:58 s/who/how/ May 15 05:32:59 Jack87 meant: someone asked how you close them in his keynote and he replied 'why would you want to close it' May 15 05:33:13 ya if I recall correctly May 15 05:34:50 oil: so canceling the download service is not doable? May 15 05:36:15 its not like it already supports it and we just have it disabled May 15 05:37:54 everyone knows that webOS and Preware supports everything ever May 15 05:38:07 it's just EVIL config files disabling everything May 15 05:39:26 time to figure out a way to support it no? I mean its a pretty basic ui concept that should be available don't you think? May 15 05:42:05 maybe, but i dislike "add this to your todo list" like you're my boss, that makes me not want do anything you say even if its a good idea :) May 15 05:42:28 oil: I want you to party hard and punch a baby May 15 05:42:30 lol I wasn't meaning it to sound that way May 15 05:42:36 and mojo is on its deathbed May 15 05:42:39 gonna need those baby punchin' reports by monday May 15 05:43:24 it was more teasing than anything else. I do apologize if it came out that way May 15 05:43:27 any improvements to the current mojo preware just feels like a waste of time nowadays May 15 05:43:58 especially since nothing is really broken, it still works as it always did May 15 05:44:00 lol May 15 05:46:13 anyways, now im leaving, bbl :) May 15 05:46:31 lies May 15 05:46:40 adios May 15 05:48:24 halfhalo: did you buy an ipad2? May 15 05:48:50 no May 15 05:48:56 why would i May 15 05:49:22 ok... decision time... to slingbox or not to slingbox.... May 15 07:20:57 morning May 15 11:14:51 I''m still looking for linphone binaries. I'd like to be a tester. I hope to get a link. May 15 11:15:18 Color99: what device and sip provider? May 15 11:18:53 rwhitby: Pixi plus, Four SIPs. May 15 11:19:04 I'll list SIPs then. May 15 11:29:20 rwhitby: I checked my two ATAs, The SIPs are sipsorcery, voipbuster, sipgate.com (US), ipcomms. I'd like to be a long term tester. Try different SIP, give comparisons. May 15 11:53:32 Color99: see /msg and report in the precentral thread May 15 11:58:46 rwhitby: do you know of anyone already has access to a webos doctor for the HP Veer? May 15 11:58:53 rwhitby: I saw your post: http://discussion.treocentral.com/webos-internals/274615-linphone-alpha-testing.html May 15 11:59:30 morphis: not that I know of. they have never released a doctor before the device is released, and the veer is not released yet. May 15 12:00:03 rwhitby: ok then I have to wait until it gets released :) May 15 12:00:11 rwhitby: my login is color99, could u please PM me a link? Thank you. May 15 12:00:19 Color99: I sent you a /msg here May 15 12:06:45 ok, the veer is available today (http://www.precentral.net/grab-your-hp-veer-4g-ATT-right-now-links-pricing-and-more) May 15 12:09:47 rwhitby: do we have another way to get the doctor than inserting the serial number in the HP support side? May 15 12:09:56 no May 15 12:10:09 ok May 15 12:10:29 I have already tried the serial from the review units. Not accepted. May 15 12:12:03 ok May 15 12:12:19 but it's allowed to provide the link to the doctor? May 15 12:12:25 rwhitby: so you have a review unit? May 15 12:14:44 morphis: no May 15 12:14:59 rwhitby: ok May 15 12:15:04 some reviews showed the serial number in the published screenshots May 15 12:15:13 :D May 15 12:17:13 hmm - I wonder if the Veer should use the armv7 or armv6 feeds in Preware May 15 12:17:54 isn't it a armv7? May 15 12:20:40 rwhitby: I am mostly interested in the telephony part - if it will be the same as in the Pre devices May 15 12:21:12 "The Veer contains a speedy 800MHz Qualcomm MSM7230" May 15 12:21:29 looks like ARMv7 May 15 12:22:23 MSM7230 45 nm 800 MHz ARMv7 May 15 12:22:25 say wikipedia May 15 12:22:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(system_on_chip) May 15 12:23:53 Interesting. The palm profile server is now rejecting logins if DMSETS is incorrect. May 15 12:56:01 morning May 15 12:56:01 * PatrickC yawns May 15 13:16:14 * rwhitby bbt May 15 13:17:58 cya rwhitby May 15 15:59:04 somebody here already has a HP Veer? May 15 16:53:36 if so, i'd hope they can give a link to the doctor used and update http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions May 15 16:59:00 bpadalino: yes thats what I am think about, too May 15 16:59:08 :) May 15 16:59:39 tempted to go down to the local AT&T and take some pictures of one May 15 17:00:23 go for it .. maybe grab one of a device info screen May 15 18:13:03 bpadalino: yeah, a serial # would let us see if a doctor image is out for it May 15 18:13:28 indeed - who wants to take a trip to bb or att ? May 15 18:29:08 hello all May 15 18:29:33 please dont be mad with me as im am all new to this and webOS Palm/HP May 15 18:30:43 i bought a Pre 2 of ebay France (I live in the UK) now what happens if the phone becomes faulty can i send back to UK for repairs or do i have to deal with the French Palm ? May 15 18:33:40 you should be able to deal with whichever hp/palm you want May 15 18:36:44 i hope so i have been after a pre 2 for ages but due to money issues as only being sold sim free in UK i finally decided to sell my wp7 and get one as i found it cheap on ebay.fr May 15 18:37:10 r u in uk bpadlino? May 15 18:37:52 i am not May 15 18:40:36 the pre 2 has a azerty keyboard but due to me only using a qwerty keyboard on my laptop i should get used to a azerty one easily enough on the pre 2, has anyone moved from a qwerty yo a azerty? May 15 19:06:48 will someone please help me if possible May 15 19:08:57 whats the differenece between app catalouges ? May 15 19:19:21 stupid question if a pre 2 has been activated in france will the app cataloge still be in english? May 15 19:46:12 holy anon May 15 21:43:13 anyone on with a sprint pre plus and 2.1?? May 16 01:01:00 Hey guys! Anybody have any experience working with the PalmDatabase file (/var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3)? I was looking to get at it programmatically. I can view it just fine in SQLite, but my SQLite lib won't open it. Tried a bunch of workarounds, (including exporting it to SQL statements and then executing those) but everything is erroring out. I find it hard to believe the DB is in as shoddy condition as the sqlit May 16 01:01:02 e editor and the library are both suggesting, so I'm pretty sure i'm messing up somewhere! May 16 01:01:47 Backstory: Wanted to build a quick LISP program to let me get at my texts on the computer more easily so I can run some statistical analysis on them May 16 01:18:40 Mmkay, for anyone interested, found a python program that did the difficult comprehensions for me and exported to a text file. I guess I'll swap over to using my regexp skills rather than my apparently shakier sqlite skills in LISP. =P The thread: http://discussion.treocentral.com/web-os-development/209028-extract-full-sms-log-text-file-palmdatabase-db3-using-sql.html May 16 01:46:14 Cerealklr: An extra lib is needed to open the palmdatabase file on-device May 16 01:46:59 NuttyBunny: Huh, that's interesting. I wonder how this guy was able to work it with just a sqlite3 lib in python then... May 16 01:47:57 maybe some queries can get through, but others can't May 16 01:55:43 NuttyBunny: Could be. Actually i'm playing with the python source now. It exports all inbound texts but none of the outbound ones. May 16 01:55:54 Will report if I find out anything else useful May 16 01:56:22 I think i've identified the pattern that's been filtering them out, but I need to run out for a bit before I get a chance to actually take a look at it May 16 01:57:19 Nice, several people have poked into the messaging database, but none of us (myself included) have got far enough to be able to restore the messages into a new device May 16 02:04:53 NuttyBunny: Back! Well excellent, I might finally have something to contribute back to the community then. =] May 16 02:12:39 NuttyBunny: Yep, figured out why it was scrapping the texts I've sent! May 16 02:13:16 While extracting from the database, it drops any lines that don't have the first name of the message sender May 16 02:13:54 Either because I didn't have myself as a contact, or because that field simply isn't populated for outgoing messages, none of my messages met the requirement May 16 02:13:58 and got dropped May 16 02:16:31 1st Attempt: Attribute all messages that have a body of text but are not associated to a first name to me May 16 02:17:21 Status: FAIL. Dumps in every single person who didn't have a contact into my list. This is especially a problem since I use Google Voice, and Google Voice didn't masquerade as the sender's numbers until Sprint rolled out full GV integration May 16 02:18:50 2nd Attempt: for all messages orphaned from a named contact, substitute the Recipient.address (phone number) as the contacts name May 16 02:21:31 yep, that looks to have fixed the problem May 16 02:22:22 well, to an extent... it's attributed a number that most certainly is not mine to me, which casts doubt on whether the other numbers are correct as well. Intriguing May 16 02:22:45 Furthermore, it's split my messages up into a number of groups May 16 02:25:07 loops as though com_palm_pim_Recipient.address might actually ALWAYS be the external number. E.g. It would be (correctly) the number of the sender in the case of inbound messages, but the number of the recipient in the case of outbound messages May 16 02:25:53 cursory comparison of several inputs suggests that's the case May 16 02:27:00 In which case, I can salvage all of my outbound messages to actual contacts by setting aside all unnamed texts, then looping through to see if the recipient number is in the contact list (if it is, that would mean it was a message I had sent to that contact) May 16 02:27:27 Would still prefer a more robust solution that didn't require contacts though May 16 02:28:26 just examining the com_palm_pin-FolderEntry table, it occurs to me that the fromAddress field is left blank on all outbound texts May 16 02:28:43 which might be the silver bullet for identifying those robustly May 16 02:31:14 Bingo May 16 02:31:20 I love it when a plan comes together! May 16 02:55:08 NuttyBunny: Okay, i've fixed up the script. The code could certainly still use some cleaning, but it does the job. To the best of my knowledge, every single incoming and outgoing text is now spit out. Texts are split into groups by sender and ordered by time sent from earliest to most recent May 16 02:55:48 Now i'm going to save a copy of it and then get to work having it spit out the information in an easier to parse format. May 16 02:56:28 XML seems a little overkill, but I'll give it some thought and set it up tomorrow. May 16 02:56:47 Either way, about bedtime now. so i'll be off. Thanks for the help and moral support! =] **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 16 02:59:57 2011