**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 14 02:59:57 2011
Jun 14 03:07:34 <Lumiere> PuffTheMagic: for 2.x only?
Jun 14 03:07:48 <PuffTheMagic> no
Jun 14 03:07:51 <PuffTheMagic> err
Jun 14 03:07:52 <PuffTheMagic> wirc
Jun 14 03:07:53 <PuffTheMagic> yes
Jun 14 03:07:59 <PuffTheMagic> the cat version
Jun 14 03:08:13 <PuffTheMagic> ya know, cause palm couldnt get their act together for plugins in 1.4.5
Jun 14 03:08:18 <PuffTheMagic> and wont push a fix
Jun 14 03:08:20 <Lumiere> heh
Jun 14 03:08:26 <Lumiere> yea my Pre- is so sad
Jun 14 03:09:23 <Lumiere> Want to Buy: Pre3 on Sprint...
Jun 14 03:09:44 <ka6sox-away> Lumiere, you and a lot of others.
Jun 14 03:09:48 <Lumiere> I know
Jun 14 03:12:48 <Lumiere> I am going to buy myself a touchpad as a stopgap... but I am really hoping I don't have to go from paying $20 a month for my pre to paying $100+ on another provider
Jun 14 03:14:11 <PuffTheMagic> not gonna get pre3 on sprint
Jun 14 03:14:18 <PuffTheMagic> never gonna happen
Jun 14 03:14:24 <Lumiere> which sucks royally
Jun 14 03:14:57 <Lumiere> I bet anything it is Sprint being a pain not HP
Jun 14 03:15:42 <rwhitby> sprint pre 2 is best you can do as far as what has been announced
Jun 14 03:15:59 <rwhitby> (DIY Sprint Pre 2 that is)
Jun 14 03:16:00 <Lumiere> I can wait for announcements...
Jun 14 03:16:17 <Lumiere> rwhitby: if I have to go that route I'll get cryptk to do it while I sit in the office
Jun 14 03:16:18 <rwhitby> don't hold your breath waiting ...
Jun 14 03:16:35 <cryptk> I can build it at work
Jun 14 03:16:43 <cryptk> just bring me a Pre2 and your Sprint phone
Jun 14 03:17:00 <Lumiere> rwhitby: I don't have time to hold my breath
Jun 14 03:17:40 * Lumiere looks at the queue
Jun 14 03:18:04 <cryptk> hey Lumiere don't you have tickets to solve?
Jun 14 03:18:05 <cryptk> lol
Jun 14 03:18:47 <Lumiere> we're down to like 10
Jun 14 05:55:51 <shadeslayer> hi
Jun 14 05:56:47 <shadeslayer> i'm a bit new to webos, but i have a general question about Dual booting on a webos device, if all the kernel modules are present and working correctly, would it be possible to boot a linux based distro on a webos device?
Jun 14 05:57:01 <shadeslayer> s/webos/webOS
Jun 14 07:18:10 <rwhitby> shadeslayer: webOS *is* a linux based distro
Jun 14 07:18:39 <shadeslayer> rwhitby: yes, i understand, but what about booting another distro like ubuntu on it?
Jun 14 07:18:59 <rwhitby> Look for the dual booting SHR Wiki page
Jun 14 07:19:43 <rwhitby> google should find the info
Jun 14 07:19:56 <shadeslayer> yep googling
Jun 14 07:24:50 <shadeslayer> one other thing, i was looking at the HP Touchpad and the cost is 499 USD for the 16GB version, its not mentioned anywhere if thats inclusive of shipping and taxes or noat
Jun 14 07:24:52 <shadeslayer> *not
Jun 14 07:28:46 <rwhitby> it never is
Jun 14 08:12:05 <shadeslayer> hmm
Jun 14 08:12:11 <shadeslayer> thanks for the info :)
Jun 14 15:20:50 <donr> Hey guys, I have a question: there's a bug in WebOS' implementation of webkit (been there since 1.0) and I want to find it and fix it. So I downloaded the webkit/webcore packages from HP's opensource site. How would I compile them and then replace them on my Pre 2?
Jun 14 15:31:09 <divilis> hi donr, maybe you can find the answer on webos-internals.org.
Jun 14 15:31:46 <donr> divilis: any idea where I might look?
Jun 14 15:32:22 <divilis> i seems that my pixi's web brower doesn't support "upload file" function.
Jun 14 15:33:26 <divilis> donr, you should set up a development env.
Jun 14 15:33:54 <divilis> check: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Tools
Jun 14 15:39:50 <donr> divis: well, I have the PDK and toolchain installed. But my question is on how I properly compile/replace just the webkit/webcore code.
Jun 14 15:43:37 <stbuehler> how do you want to fix bugs if you can't even find out how to compile it? :)
Jun 14 15:53:01 <divilis> donr: i think you should get some files after you compile source. then you should kown what to replace.
Jun 14 17:21:50 <NuttyBunny> Is this it? wIRC is really being reviewed?? :D
Jun 14 17:22:09 <cryptk> could be
Jun 14 17:22:13 <cryptk> it has been reviewed before
Jun 14 17:22:15 <cryptk> and rejected
Jun 14 17:22:21 <ka6sox-away> repeatedly
Jun 14 17:22:32 <cryptk> then oil and Puff fix the reason it was rejected, then it gets rejected again for a different reason
Jun 14 17:22:38 <cryptk> but every time, it gets closer
Jun 14 17:22:48 <zandi> heh
Jun 14 17:22:55 <zandi> i still need to put that on my pre
Jun 14 17:23:04 <ka6sox-away> pretty soon their shiny BMW will look like a Yugo.
Jun 14 17:37:16 <NuttyBunny> I know, I know, but I just saw a tweet... Adora... is wIRC finally passing review? :)
Jun 14 17:37:50 <cryptk> OH!
Jun 14 17:37:54 <cryptk> maybe it is then!
Jun 14 17:38:09 <summatusmentis> NuttyBunny: wasn't the tweet by oil?
Jun 14 17:39:05 <cryptk> I see tweets by Oil about wIRC, nothing by Adora though
Jun 14 17:39:47 <summatusmentis> cryptk: yar, me too
Jun 14 17:40:00 <oilsworkn> is it talk like a pirate day again already?
Jun 14 17:40:31 <summatusmentis> no, I'm just... being weird? I don't have a good reason
Jun 14 17:40:47 <oilsworkn> ok
Jun 14 17:40:54 <NuttyBunny> No, it wasn't by Oil (I don't remember) :)
Jun 14 17:41:06 <oilsworkn> what?
Jun 14 17:41:24 <summatusmentis> tweets about wirc being reviewd
Jun 14 17:41:32 <summatusmentis> it was definitely by oil
Jun 14 17:41:47 <summatusmentis> dontblameoil> @Adora Reviewing wIRC should be!
Jun 14 17:42:14 <oilsworkn> no, thats not me
Jun 14 17:43:02 <summatusmentis> I hope you're joking, otherwise I'm following some random person
Jun 14 17:43:11 <oilsworkn> lol, yeah, i was
Jun 14 17:43:23 <summatusmentis> :)
Jun 14 17:43:25 <oilsworkn> as if im not some random person haha
Jun 14 17:43:39 <summatusmentis> well, you're some random person I "know" on the internet
Jun 14 17:43:47 <summatusmentis> instead of some random person I "don't know" on the internet
Jun 14 17:44:01 <oilsworkn> ah
Jun 14 17:54:15 <summatusmentis> who was working on Terminal?
Jun 14 17:54:35 <summatusmentis> and/or is there a reason it's non-functional on 2.x?
Jun 14 17:55:39 <cryptk> I think PuffTheMagic was mentioning plans to get it working again
Jun 14 17:56:02 <cryptk> we are just a little overloaded with all the changes lately, there's only about 15 of us, and some of us aren't even programmers
Jun 14 17:56:12 <cryptk> like me for instance, definitely not a programmer
Jun 14 17:56:18 * oilsworkn just does js
Jun 14 17:56:27 <summatusmentis> that's fair, I was mostly curious
Jun 14 17:56:35 <summatusmentis> I liked Terminal better than Terminus
Jun 14 17:56:40 <summatusmentis> and I can't get SDLTerminal to install
Jun 14 17:56:45 <cryptk> I just use novaterm or SSH
Jun 14 17:56:54 * oilsworkn has always liked termplugin/terminal better
Jun 14 17:57:21 <summatusmentis> cryptk: I use it enough from the device itself as an ssh client or something
Jun 14 17:57:30 <cryptk> I have a laptop for that
Jun 14 17:57:37 <summatusmentis> not in your pocket you don't
Jun 14 17:57:43 <cryptk> although, when the TP comes out... we do need a full featured SSH app
Jun 14 17:57:49 <oilsworkn> cryptk has REALLY BIG pockets
Jun 14 17:57:53 <summatusmentis> heh
Jun 14 17:57:57 <cryptk> I'M HUGE!!!!
Jun 14 17:57:59 <oilsworkn> jnco style
Jun 14 17:58:20 <summatusmentis> I spend enough time in classrooms where they don't want you to have a laptop....
Jun 14 17:58:27 <cryptk> most people don't know this, but I'm actually 7'6" and 380 lbs
Jun 14 17:58:42 <oilsworkn> and by laptop, you mean "facebook machine"
Jun 14 17:58:44 <cryptk> so I have BIG pants... as such... BIG pockets
Jun 14 17:59:04 <cryptk> I refer to it as my "folding picture box"
Jun 14 17:59:15 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: well, you know, "facbook and irc machine"
Jun 14 17:59:18 <oilsworkn> lol
Jun 14 17:59:51 <cryptk> I have wIRC on the Sprint Pre2 for that
Jun 14 18:00:13 <cryptk> do you know how hard it is to build a franken Pre2 with fingers like sausages!
Jun 14 18:00:39 <oilsworkn> nope
Jun 14 18:01:19 <cryptk> it's tough...
Jun 14 18:01:29 <cryptk> damn little parts... I keep smashing them by accident
Jun 14 18:01:54 <cryptk> then when I'm finally finished, I lose the damn thing in my pockets and have to build a new one
Jun 14 18:02:10 <summatusmentis> hah
Jun 14 18:02:42 <oilsworkn> lol
Jun 14 18:15:44 * NuttyBunny just read oilsworkn tweet and understood everything :S .....  *goes and hides in a corner*
Jun 14 18:16:00 <oilsworkn> what tweet?
Jun 14 18:20:42 <NuttyBunny> The tweet of you politely asking Adora to put wIRC review on top of her priorities ;)
Jun 14 18:21:05 <oilsworkn> oh heh
Jun 14 20:31:46 <zandi> say, is anyone here intimately familiar with how WebOS does its localization?
Jun 14 20:32:01 <zandi> i'm wanting to change some strings, but i'm getting very weird results
Jun 14 20:34:05 <ka6sox-away> find swisstomcat when you see him online
Jun 14 20:34:14 <ka6sox-away> he has done German work.
Jun 14 20:35:17 <zandi> sweet, i appreciate it
Jun 14 20:35:43 <zandi> from what i've seen it's basically a strings.json object with english phrases as keys, and a sort of lookup later on with $L()
Jun 14 20:35:55 <zandi> but i haven't dove in deep enough to know if there's more to it
Jun 14 21:06:24 <gmoj> hi
Jun 14 21:07:22 <gmoj> i want to alphatest linphone app
Jun 14 21:07:34 <gmoj> can anyone help me?
Jun 14 21:09:29 <oilsworkn> gmoj: you're looking for rwhitby, but i dont think its day time in australia yet
Jun 14 21:11:09 <gmoj> i am looking for thibaud
Jun 14 21:11:21 <gmoj> i think he's the lead developer for this app
Jun 14 21:12:55 <oilsworkn> he is, but he is rarely in irc
Jun 14 21:13:07 <oilsworkn> rwhitby has been handling the alpha test requests
Jun 14 21:13:43 <gmoj> ah
Jun 14 21:13:51 <gmoj> thanks
Jun 14 21:14:17 <gmoj> so when's he here?
Jun 14 21:14:20 <oilsworkn> np
Jun 14 21:14:22 <oilsworkn> uh
Jun 14 21:14:27 <oilsworkn> a few hours?
Jun 14 21:14:38 <oilsworkn> its still early morning down under
Jun 14 21:36:58 <NuttyBunny> you gotta love the nerve of these people... "i want to alphatest linphone app"
Jun 14 21:39:58 <oilsworkn> they come in here and say that because thats what they're told to do in the thread i believe
Jun 14 21:53:29 <NuttyBunny> But they're not, the thread says: Go and visit the channel, make yourself known, and then ask
Jun 14 21:53:39 <NuttyBunny> not just go and ask rudely
Jun 14 21:53:50 <oilsworkn> didnt seem rude to me :/
Jun 14 21:54:23 <halfhalo> gimme linphone NAO
Jun 14 21:55:06 <NuttyBunny> perhaps I'm just in a bad mood... he didn't seem that rude :)
Jun 15 00:14:51 <Popple3> rwhitby: It's probably staring me in the face, but where in Impostah can I sign out of my Palm Profile without wiping the device?
Jun 15 00:16:26 <rwhitby> Popple3: reset palm profile, but cancel when it says to reset.
Jun 15 00:16:58 <Popple3> rwhitby: Perfect, thanks. I assume to log back in I just use the activation page?
Jun 15 00:17:20 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 15 00:18:01 <Popple3> awesome, now to just wait for this Pre- to meta doctor so I can sign in with my 2.1 profile on it. Hopefully it wont screw anything up
Jun 15 01:05:42 <Popple3> rwhitby: That worked flawlessly :D Thanks a million. I of course bought the homebrew docs while I was at it :)
Jun 15 01:20:58 <rwhitby> Popple3: sweet.
Jun 15 01:24:44 <Popple3> rwhitby: Actually, not quite, I just rebooted :(
Jun 15 01:24:49 <Popple3> All my apps disappeared
Jun 15 01:26:08 <Loudergood> on which phone?
Jun 15 01:26:35 <Popple3> the pre 2
Jun 15 01:27:01 <Popple3> which is the one without app catalog access
Jun 15 01:27:17 <Popple3> installing Impostah now to get them back
Jun 15 01:30:41 <Popple3> of course I couldn't get Music Player Remix thanks to the submission bug :(
Jun 15 01:33:29 <Loudergood> there's always the preware edition
Jun 15 01:33:53 <Popple3> isn't that <2.x only though?
Jun 15 01:33:56 <summatusmentis> yes
Jun 15 01:34:16 <summatusmentis> so, has the submission bug been fixed at all?
Jun 15 01:34:31 <Loudergood> oh you're right
Jun 15 01:34:37 <Loudergood> and not that I've heard
Jun 15 01:35:49 <summatusmentis> hrm
Jun 15 01:35:57 <singmajesty> Which bug?
Jun 15 01:36:22 <summatusmentis> I don't know the specifics, but somehting about losing apps on older 2.1 devices?
Jun 15 01:36:58 <Popple3> not really losing them, just not being able to update/download them :P
Jun 15 01:37:16 <Loudergood> http://www.webosroundup.com/2011/06/app-catalog-troubles-for-meta-doctored-devices/
Jun 15 01:37:17 <summatusmentis> oh
Jun 15 01:39:03 <singmajesty> Ah, I see, so more than checking the OS version, it is checking the device model
Jun 15 01:39:28 <singmajesty> ...and since the Pre and Pre Plus don't officially support webOS 2.x, they are getting blacklisted on the current App Catalog?
Jun 15 01:39:42 <Popple3> singmajesty: Pre+ does on some networks
Jun 15 01:39:55 <singmajesty> Ah, right, in EU
Jun 15 01:40:35 <Popple3> anyway, I'm off to bed, stayed up way too late to get a few paid apps :P
Jun 15 01:40:37 <singmajesty> Is anyone at Palm aware of this?
Jun 15 01:40:53 <summatusmentis> yes, they've confirmed it as a bug, iirc
Jun 15 01:42:14 <singmajesty> Do you know if they opened a ticket on the issue?
Jun 15 01:43:05 <rwhitby> singmajesty: Pre+ *does* officially support webOS 2.1.0
Jun 15 01:43:17 <rwhitby> please do not allow the misconception that it does not to be promulgated.
Jun 15 01:43:32 <rwhitby> O2 released an official webOS 2.1.0 upgrade for the P101UEU device.
Jun 15 01:43:57 <singmajesty> Right, that's what I meant about EU
Jun 15 01:43:59 <rwhitby> and it is this misconception that 2.1.0 is not officially supported on the Pre+ which has led to this app catalog bug.
Jun 15 01:44:29 <rwhitby> since obviously the people making the change thought "Oh, 2.x is only on Pre 2 and Veer"
Jun 15 01:44:42 <singmajesty> They should probably say "Pre 2" on the developer portal, but register as Pre and Pre Plus internally
Jun 15 01:45:13 <rwhitby> and now they've gone too far in making that simplification to be able to revert it easily is my guess. hence the delay in fixing a "must-fix" bug.
Jun 15 01:45:42 <singmajesty> Does that sound like the right solution? I know that it should most appropriately say, "Pre 2/Pre Plus (if you are on O2 in the right country)", but leaving the caption as "Pre 2" while allowing the Pre or Pre Plus to download would probably go over easiest
Jun 15 01:46:16 <singmajesty> It might be a simple device ID thing. Hopefully it isn't more complicated
Jun 15 01:46:40 <rwhitby> well, I personally think it's an attitude problem.
Jun 15 01:47:28 <singmajesty> It might just be an oversight
Jun 15 01:47:35 <rwhitby> those in charge of the app catalog implementation simply have no concept of the devices being used by people outside of the US.
Jun 15 01:48:09 <singmajesty> We were in France and Germany recently, and I think we will be visiting more locations outside of the United States
Jun 15 01:48:27 <rwhitby> and that causes bugs like this to slip through not only engineering design change reviews (which I hope Palm does) but implementation reviews as well (which I also hope Palm does).
Jun 15 01:48:32 <singmajesty> Being able to travel and meet developers face to face, I think, helps us all keep a better perspective
Jun 15 01:48:43 <rwhitby> devrel were in EU, not the app catalog people.
Jun 15 01:49:13 <rwhitby> and it seems devrel has little influence over app catalog bug fixing priorities
Jun 15 01:49:37 <singmajesty> When I was working on Bible Reader, I felt that treating "every language like a first class citizen" was important
Jun 15 01:49:43 <singmajesty> I think that same principle applies here, too.
Jun 15 01:50:12 <rwhitby> or over webOS bug fixing priorities either.  The bug which stops GPS working in the southern hemisphere was reported and acknowledged in 1.2.1, and is still not fixed in 2.1.1
Jun 15 01:50:34 <singmajesty> Oh, I haven't heard of that before.
Jun 15 01:51:12 <singmajesty> I've heard about the Verizon A-GPS crippling. Do you know what the cause is for the bug you're referencing?
Jun 15 01:51:13 <rwhitby> NOV-125660 - look it up and see what the status is.
Jun 15 01:51:37 <singmajesty> Perfect
Jun 15 01:51:38 <rwhitby> they have all the information needed, almost to the level of telling them which line to change in the code.
Jun 15 01:52:08 <rwhitby> but it doesn't affect an official launch country (none of which are in the southern hemisphere), so it is ignored.
Jun 15 01:52:31 <singmajesty> Do you know if the App Catalog bug has been filed?
Jun 15 01:52:46 <rwhitby> I know that many people know about it. I don't have an NOV for it.
Jun 15 01:54:04 <singmajesty> I think the TouchPad is going to help provide leverage for resolving some of these global issues
Jun 15 01:54:32 <singmajesty> I don't remember the list of countries which were mentioned, but I remember a few that have never officially seen a phone before
Jun 15 01:54:39 <singmajesty> Singapore, Australia I think
Jun 15 01:55:02 <rwhitby> yes, however that is wifi version only, but it's a start.
Jun 15 01:55:29 <singmajesty> Yeah, I was thinking about that with the GPS
Jun 15 01:55:55 <singmajesty> ...but since there is a carrier with webOS 2.x on the Pre Plus, there is no excuse for the catalog issue
Jun 15 01:55:57 <rwhitby> GPS on TouchPad probably requires the modem chip, since that's how Qualcomm usually does it.
Jun 15 01:56:24 <rwhitby> I wonder if the wifi touchpad even has GPS capabilities.
Jun 15 01:56:38 <singmajesty> I was just wondering the same. I'm not sure -- I've never tried it.
Jun 15 01:57:05 <rwhitby> I bet it uses google location services and wifi, which is exactly what doesn't work in the southern hemisphere.
Jun 15 01:57:17 <singmajesty> Bing Maps seemed to find my location pretty well. I wonder if that was GPS or if it was finding the location using wi-fi
Jun 15 01:57:42 <singmajesty> Ah, so Google Location Services are broken, or is it just a bug in the implementation?
Jun 15 01:57:56 <rwhitby> a bug in the implementation on webOS.
Jun 15 01:58:07 <rwhitby> someone doesn't realise that the earth is two hemispheres.
Jun 15 01:59:00 <ka6sox-home> rwhitby, a Notre Americano Earth....everything else is of the edge of the pam.
Jun 15 01:59:04 <ka6sox-home> s/pam/map
Jun 15 02:01:05 <singmajesty> If the TouchPad uses Google Location Services, I think we'll be able to get it resolved soon
Jun 15 02:01:38 <singmajesty> That will be webOS 3.x, though. Maybe it can be applied to the 2.x branch as well
Jun 15 02:07:49 <rwhitby> singmajesty: I'm sure it can be resolved quickly, as soon as someone takes an interest in it.
Jun 15 02:08:00 <rwhitby> in the last 2 years, that hasn't happened.
Jun 15 02:11:28 <singmajesty> I'm sorry. I'll see if we can get this resolved
Jun 15 02:12:03 <singmajesty> I'll see if I can tap someone in engineering to put in the fix if we already have the problem/solution figured out
Jun 15 02:12:25 <singmajesty> Otherwise I'll make sure to communicate this is something we want ready for the wider TouchPad release
Jun 15 02:13:00 <rwhitby> thanks.
Jun 15 02:21:31 <bnceo> I finally got answers questions on how to use my Pre2 in Peru
Jun 15 02:21:37 <bnceo> well, more like prices and stuff
Jun 15 02:22:53 <bnceo> Before I leave, I'll unlocked the Veer and use it down there too
Jun 15 02:23:01 <bnceo> I hope TSA doesn't go nuts with me having 3 cell phones with me
Jun 15 02:24:25 <oil> if i lived in peru i'd totally hook you up with a ride from the airport :)
Jun 15 02:24:38 <oil> haha
Jun 15 02:24:44 <rwhitby> bnceo: I've carried 12 Pre batteries in carry-on before.
Jun 15 02:25:38 <bnceo> I also hope Peru doesn't go nuts either and give me the red light. it's infamous down there
Jun 15 02:25:50 <bnceo> I guess if it checks out, it checks out rod
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 15 02:59:57 2011