**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 27 02:59:57 2011 Jun 27 05:39:13 hmm? Jun 27 05:40:15 what's up? Jun 27 05:42:53 not much, want a new phone cause the volume buttons on my Pre + broke, but waiting for the Pre 3. =/ Jun 27 05:43:16 Have the money set aside for a Touchpad Friday! =D Jun 27 05:43:21 same here Jun 27 05:43:22 :) Jun 27 05:45:27 funny thing is, a years ago I wouldn't have imagined spending $800 on a tablet, let alone one lacking video-out and usb ports. =P Jun 27 05:45:42 haha Jun 27 05:46:01 I'm 15... I don't just have $500 laying around.. but I might for the tp ;) Jun 27 05:47:36 Was it Staples that's throwing in the case free with the touchpad? Jun 27 05:47:50 I think Costco Jun 27 05:47:59 Sam's Club has it for $478 and $578 Jun 27 05:48:07 I wouldn't mind spending $50 less than I planned Jun 27 05:48:44 :) Jun 27 05:49:00 amazon ftw. no tax is awesome Jun 27 05:50:19 halfhalo: price? Jun 27 05:50:25 if the touchpad doesn't have document editing and netflix at launch I'll be sad. ): Jun 27 05:50:31 500 Jun 27 05:51:11 any word on battery life? Jun 27 05:52:12 I've heard nothing about it, and it's the one area that should make a tablet more advantageous than a laptop Jun 27 05:52:53 (that and the form factor difference) Jun 27 06:01:39 * PatrickC is looking for a new freehost.. Jun 27 06:02:24 use githib Jun 27 06:02:28 github even Jun 27 06:03:19 rwhitby: that won't work for hosting an actual website and for ftp :/ Jun 27 06:04:07 hostgator? Jun 27 06:05:14 hostgator is a paid host :/ Jun 27 06:05:19 ohyeah Jun 27 06:05:22 I found up4.net Jun 27 06:05:25 that part =/ Jun 27 06:05:44 * rwhitby wonders what PatrickC's website hosting requirements have to do with webos-internals ... Jun 27 06:06:08 let me point you to the watercooler channel .. Jun 27 06:06:28 lawl Jun 27 06:06:46 rwhitby: it doesn't yet, but it will once I get the FTP working :) Jun 27 06:06:58 patches galore for my beta group :) Jun 27 06:07:18 as I said, github works for that. Jun 27 06:08:37 true Jun 27 06:08:37 but to have a private repo on github, that costs money (doesn't it?) Jun 27 06:08:56 why are you discussing private repos in #webos-internals? Jun 27 06:09:34 cause they will contain patches to make webos better? Jun 27 06:10:52 and why are they private? Jun 27 06:12:57 for my private beta testing Jun 27 06:13:11 then once all the bugs are worked out, I'll make 'em public Jun 27 06:15:16 blarg, webOS 2.x and 3.x need mini card view and a patchable launcher =/ Jun 27 06:15:41 PatrickC: you should read the cathedral and the bazaar, and learn about "release early, release often" Jun 27 06:16:13 cause what you are talking about is the anathema of this channel Jun 27 06:21:32 anyone know if the Veer has heat issues like devices in the prē series? Jun 27 06:22:36 rwhitby: did geo-restricting stop on your veer? Jun 27 06:23:24 I don't have a Veer Jun 27 06:23:53 I thought you did..? Jun 27 06:23:55 its ded Jun 27 06:24:49 Processor didn't support a USB recover or something IIRC Jun 27 06:24:56 *recovery Jun 27 06:26:25 I'd like to see a webOS device running on the OMAP pandaboard Jun 27 06:26:41 none of this snapdragon nonesense Jun 27 06:27:33 *nonsense Jun 27 06:29:54 Usb OTG host, SD card slot, HDMI, 1GB ram, dual core 1ghz processor and it's relatively cheap Jun 27 09:08:31 Hi, is there an obexftp ipkg to support obex push profile on palm pixi ? Jun 27 17:27:52 HP and sprint are making it difficult to be loyal consumers Jun 27 17:34:41 =sprint Jun 27 17:35:04 heh Jun 27 17:36:34 It's much easier to be loyal with a Pre 2 on Verizon or a Veer on AT&T, assuming you forgot their monthly carrier prices Jun 27 17:36:54 But Friday, the TouchPad is available, regardless of wireless carrier Jun 27 17:38:22 yeah Jun 27 17:38:29 i'm sure this channel will be pretty active then, haha Jun 27 17:39:45 I think the TouchPad is sweet Jun 27 17:39:53 ...but everyone can decide themselves in a few days :) Jun 27 17:39:56 yeah Jun 27 17:40:45 greetings Jun 27 17:41:05 Howdy Jun 27 17:47:25 is sprint really that torqued off about Pre sales/returns? Jun 27 17:49:23 I don't know the answer for sure, but my impression is that Sprint is losing money each year, and wants to turn more profitable. One of their key "assets" is their lower prices, so they're going to try and cut elsewhere Jun 27 17:49:36 Android, I think, is their big way to differentiate -- Jun 27 17:49:42 HP is dragging its feet on the pre3 Jun 27 17:49:53 which will be immediately behind most other smart phones Jun 27 17:49:58 4G, SprintID, carrier lockdown on devices, training on a single platform Jun 27 17:50:17 1.4ghz single core vs the already out there dual core motorola atrix and htc evo 3d Jun 27 17:50:22 ...and they can continue to sell the "latest and greatest" Jun 27 17:50:42 they have really jumped on the google bandwagon. look at the google voice stuff Jun 27 17:52:19 Ultimately, Sprint has business decisions to make, and if they decide not to carry a phone (like they did with the Pixi Plus, Pre Plus, Pre 2 and Veer so far) it is their decision Jun 27 17:52:43 Unfortunately. Carriers can be a real pickle Jun 27 17:52:52 i wish HP would quit dragging their feet Jun 27 17:53:14 HP easily has the R&D money/muscle to compete with smart phones Jun 27 17:53:17 What do you mean? Jun 27 17:53:20 not to mention a major head start with webos Jun 27 17:53:33 * halfhalo sits down with popcorn to watch Jun 27 17:53:38 They said the Veer would launch in spring. It launched late spring Jun 27 17:53:43 but they need to start releasing competing devices fast or they're going to drown in that market Jun 27 17:53:56 veer is not a competitive phone Jun 27 17:53:57 They said the TouchPad and Pre 3 would release in summer. The TouchPad is releasing this week -- beginning/middle of summer Jun 27 17:54:02 its a novelty phone Jun 27 17:54:17 The Pre 3 is coming, and yes, it isn't a huge 4" phone with a dual-core, but it works great Jun 27 17:54:19 * PatrickC joins halfhalo Jun 27 17:54:22 ya but pre 3 is already far behind other phones in specs Jun 27 17:54:26 I prefer the Veer more, personally, but I do like the Pre 3 Jun 27 17:54:34 Just like the iPhone 4, right? Jun 27 17:54:38 Which still sells like hotcakes? Jun 27 17:54:58 iphone 4 is not nearly as far behind as HP at this point Jun 27 17:55:04 not even a reasonable comparison Jun 27 17:55:05 lol Jun 27 17:55:09 go singmajesty! Jun 27 17:55:13 comparing apples to pineapples Jun 27 17:55:30 they both have apples in the name :P Jun 27 17:55:34 not to mention apple has a much larger loyal fan base than palm did Jun 27 17:55:58 apple is shrinking too now that its forced to compete with android Jun 27 17:56:18 http://www.theiloop.com/hp-pre-3-vs-apple-iphone-4-vs-samsung-nexus-s-comparison/ Jun 27 17:56:22 last figures i saw put android in the 36% ball park and apple in the 24% ball park? Jun 27 17:56:49 singmajesty: whats the point of comparing a phone that hasnt been released to 2 phones that are already outdated? Jun 27 17:57:00 compare the pre3 to atrix or evo 3d Jun 27 17:57:00 Is there an iPhone 5 I didn't hear about? Jun 27 17:57:14 Personally, I think its about experience Jun 27 17:57:23 People have bought under-powered Apple products for years Jun 27 17:57:35 Because they preferred the experience they had on OS X than they did on Windows Jun 27 17:57:44 For them, faster specs were not the primary selling point Jun 27 17:57:56 ...and let me tell you, my wife, mom and even dad aren't into specs Jun 27 17:57:58 well the growing market share of devices? Jun 27 17:58:02 horsepower is everything Jun 27 17:58:03 Pre³ wins Jun 27 17:58:06 end of story Jun 27 17:58:11 They care about whether the phone will do everything they want it to, and what the experience feels like Jun 27 17:58:12 haha Jun 27 17:58:16 i have been a pre user since they released Jun 27 17:58:23 hp is about to lose my loyalty Jun 27 17:58:23 So users have a decision to make between webOS, iOS and Android Jun 27 17:58:48 As I said, I prefer the Veer over the Pre 3 -- I have both Jun 27 17:59:08 The Veer doesn't have the same specs as the Pre 3, but I don't need it to. It's zippy for everything I *need* in a phone Jun 27 17:59:13 I'm going to stick with HP till the end, no question Jun 27 17:59:14 ...and it gives me the experience I prefer Jun 27 17:59:25 So that's what it comes down to -- what provides the experience you are after? Jun 27 17:59:30 yeah Jun 27 17:59:40 When I buy my next laptop, I care about weight, battery life, and a baseline of functionality. Jun 27 17:59:50 its not about having a 1.2GHz dual-core, but how well does it work with what it has Jun 27 17:59:59 When I upgrade my desktop, I will care about specs regardless of weight or power use, pretty much, though I will care about price Jun 27 18:00:27 So, to each their own :) Jun 27 18:00:36 I don't want to watch videos on my phone. I'll use another device for that Jun 27 18:00:53 Nowadays, we have a mixture of phone, tablet, netbook, notebook and desktop form factors Jun 27 18:01:05 android is good for people who like virus', iOS is good for people who need a ton of apps, webOS is good for everything :) Jun 27 18:01:07 Your needs + X number of devices = needs met, hopefully Jun 27 18:01:16 lol Jun 27 18:01:24 So the number of devices you have, with their varying flavors and features, will hopefully meet your needs Jun 27 18:01:48 * halfhalo wants to watch movies on his phone... :( Jun 27 18:01:49 I love webOS -- it makes me super productive. However, I would say that the experience of an overclocked Pre Plus, onward, is different than an original Pre Jun 27 18:01:51 I can't wait till the touchpad launches and kills the iPad Jun 27 18:01:56 That's what I mean about a baseline of functionality Jun 27 18:02:25 webOS performs best with 512 MB of RAM and 700+MHz CPU Jun 27 18:02:36 (In my experience) Jun 27 18:02:39 I like webos for many reasons, being able to hack/have fun with it, and *still keep my warranty* is a *huge* reason I stay with them Jun 27 18:02:59 Oh, cool fact -- Jun 27 18:03:06 at the hackathon on Friday, Saturday Jun 27 18:03:16 yeah? :) Jun 27 18:03:25 We put Ubuntu on a TouchPad, compiled C++ using g++ on the device, installed haxe and compiled and ran haxe applications on the TouchPad Jun 27 18:03:28 * PatrickC likes where this is going :D Jun 27 18:03:39 ...all we need is a terminal and we can do PDK development on device, no laptop needed Jun 27 18:03:40 awesome!!!! Jun 27 18:03:49 wait, ubuntu-dualboot touchpad?! Jun 27 18:03:51 That plus the TouchStone and a bluetooth keyboard could be fun :) Jun 27 18:03:55 I like webos, but hate the COMPLETE AND UTTER LACK OF VIDEO CODEC SUPPORT. Jun 27 18:04:04 It was Ubuntu in a terminal, we didn't get Ubuntu writing to the framebuffer Jun 27 18:04:09 what about sdk development Jun 27 18:04:12 We were playing more with running ARM build apps Jun 27 18:04:15 Oh, you could do that now Jun 27 18:04:21 novaterm, vi Jun 27 18:04:30 Or if someone writes a nice IDE Jun 27 18:04:31 halfhalo: +1 Needs moar MKV Jun 27 18:04:41 so, you are saying you could build total apps on your touchpad? Jun 27 18:04:48 Yeah, end-to-end Jun 27 18:04:51 that's a +1 over the iPad/Android tabs! Jun 27 18:04:54 awesome! Jun 27 18:05:04 konami code required? Jun 27 18:05:06 PatrickC, all you need for SDK apps is a text editor Jun 27 18:05:24 but to palm-package it, you need the SDK to be installed Jun 27 18:05:30 Right Jun 27 18:05:30 and palm-generate the template Jun 27 18:05:44 templates are for noobs :P Jun 27 18:05:44 So this approach works best if you already palm-package and palm-install the application once Jun 27 18:05:48 except there are ways to not use those tools Jun 27 18:05:49 * Popple3 runs Jun 27 18:06:00 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Debian_chroot Jun 27 18:06:02 However, it would be possible to install an application while on the device Jun 27 18:06:09 Yeah, we used chroot for Ubuntu Jun 27 18:06:16 1 GB Jun 27 18:06:22 singmajesty: preware is my installer :) Jun 27 18:06:39 I think it would be awesome to have some kind of ODDK Jun 27 18:06:43 on-device development kit Jun 27 18:06:44 * halfhalo has done lenny and natty chroots on his veer Jun 27 18:06:55 hmm.. I think if Ares worked on-device, you would win the war Jun 27 18:07:11 Once we get the Ares guys off of Enyo and back on Ares, we probably can Jun 27 18:07:45 * PatrickC can't wait to see Ares + Enyo! Jun 27 18:08:27 wosi should make an ODDK :) Jun 27 18:28:47 PatrickC and singmajesty the argument of "what it does with what it has" is moot Jun 27 18:29:04 i like webos but the pre/pre2 both struggle to run the OS Jun 27 18:29:10 android phones with dual cores haul ass Jun 27 18:29:14 its not even a fair comparison Jun 27 18:29:24 not really, they still lag for no real reason Jun 27 18:29:38 i havent seen that at all with the atrix or evo 3d Jun 27 18:30:24 someone at work has an atrix and he let me mess with it for the better part of a day even... after running tons of 3d video games and what not the only negative i saw was its power hunger and heat while under load Jun 27 18:30:35 both problems the pre's have Jun 27 18:30:51 they do. and when they do its extremely annoying because there is no rhyme or reason to it Jun 27 18:31:14 dual core makes sense for multitaksing environments Jun 27 18:31:33 and thats the major selling point of webos.. or at least it was when it was shiny and new Jun 27 18:31:48 dont get me wrong... i like webos more than i like android Jun 27 18:31:58 but the phones do not keep up with the OS Jun 27 18:32:22 and the pace of hardware is literally a year apart from HP/palm devices at this point Jun 27 18:32:25 dual core makes sense for android. which needs both cores just to stay semi fluid. webos is smarter than that and can get away with one core. Jun 27 18:32:50 ive overclocked my pre even and i can say thats not true at all Jun 27 18:32:57 my pre lags like crazy all the time Jun 27 18:33:02 pre -? Jun 27 18:33:17 ya and the pre+ i had from work Jun 27 18:33:58 the pre- really should have had the ram the pre+ did. the ram was its limiting factor, not cpu Jun 27 18:33:58 sadly i eventually gave my pre+ back in favor of a blackberry with week long battery life and super fast email interface Jun 27 18:34:27 i couldnt deal with waiting 10 seconds between displaying emails and constant interface lag Jun 27 18:35:41 i was excited when HP bought palm thinking they would drastically accelerate their hardware R&D and put them back in the game but it doesnt appear if they have put any significant muscle behind that purchase because they're a year behind a lot of other hardware vendors now Jun 27 18:35:51 webos 2.x is much more fluid on the hardware that can run it. The veer is extremely fast for such a small phone Jun 27 18:36:24 i tried the veer in a store display but its not a smart phone contender really Jun 27 18:36:34 it is for me. Jun 27 18:36:56 veer is slower than an iphone with a smaller display and less battery life Jun 27 18:37:03 how does that contend considering the iphone sucks? Jun 27 18:37:37 only on paper is the veer slower. in actual usage its faster. Jun 27 18:37:47 the CPU isn't much slower than an iPhone, and smaller form factor can be a plus to some Jun 27 18:38:18 Personally, I like the screen on my Pre 2, I think it's just right Jun 27 18:38:25 I'll probably still get a Pre3 though :P Jun 27 18:38:50 I'll end up with a pre3 to play with, but I think I'm going to keep the veer as my main phone Jun 27 18:39:21 I use the headphone jack too much to be ok using a veer, I think Jun 27 18:39:35 I would totally lose the little magnet dongle Jun 27 18:39:52 I can honestly say I have not used the headphone jack once. AND I haven't lost the thingie yet! Jun 27 18:40:21 my phone is my portable music player Jun 27 18:40:45 * halfhalo has zune hd, he does not do phones as music players Jun 27 18:40:47 summatusmentis: superglue th dongle to ur headphones Jun 27 18:41:05 although I do use the sammy focus as a movie player. mmmmmmm.... superamoled.... Jun 27 18:41:42 haeffb_pre: yeah.... no Jun 27 18:41:51 halfhalo: Samsung Wave is awesome for watching vids, Super AMOLED and Bada has native MKV support :D Jun 27 18:42:01 and srt subtitle support Jun 27 18:42:17 Bada otherwise sucks, but still :P Jun 27 18:42:25 my epic 4g has video support for literally every movie I could find. Jun 27 18:43:15 oh right, didn't realise Samsung add codecs to their Android phones Jun 27 19:50:36 hello, with Preware, before last update, I was see more than 2000 application, but now just 500, why? Jun 27 19:51:00 Because that, I can't finf nDrive, for example Jun 27 19:51:09 Because that, I can't find nDrive, for example Jun 27 19:51:23 the palm catalog feeds were removed from preware Jun 27 19:51:38 it is possible to add it? Jun 27 19:51:54 no, palm shut them down, hence their removal Jun 27 19:52:05 you can still find ndrive in the app catalog though Jun 27 19:52:08 hello Jun 27 19:52:35 with app Catalog, I try to search nDrive but not found, why I can't install it? Jun 27 19:53:23 Applicatios not found Jun 27 19:53:28 i honeslty don't know, I haven't ever searched for it myself Jun 27 19:53:29 NDrive is in beta for webOS, I believe Jun 27 19:53:30 Application not found Jun 27 19:53:34 Not in the official catalog yet Jun 27 19:53:43 no 50$ for that Jun 27 19:53:58 Go to http://beta.ndrive.com Jun 27 19:53:58 singmajesty: really? I could have sworn i saw it before Jun 27 19:54:00 I want it for Canada Jun 27 19:54:09 Maybe I'm wrong :) Jun 27 19:54:43 I saw it before too in Preware but now I can't find it in App Catalog, I want it please Jun 27 19:55:11 Nevermind, I do see it Jun 27 19:55:19 Not sure what their minimum version is marked as Jun 27 19:55:53 TheOneric: what webos version and what carrier? Jun 27 19:56:28 My WebOS it's 1.4.5 with Bell Canada Jun 27 19:58:13 ah, nDrive is webos 2.x only in the app catalog. Jun 27 19:58:44 It is because I can't find it with my App Catalog? Jun 27 19:59:47 TheOneric: to use nDrive you need a newer webOS version which Bell Canada has not released. Thats why its not showing for you in the catalog. Jun 27 20:00:21 OK, thank you for your help Jun 27 21:12:37 enen: singmajesty: Please re-read the channel topic - smartphone comparative discussions should be done elsewhere thanks. Jun 27 21:17:07 Sorry about that. I'll bear that in mind in the future Jun 27 21:17:36 Are you using a TouchPad? Jun 27 21:18:41 either that or toilet paper Jun 27 21:21:51 or a tiny phone Jun 27 21:22:28 or a tremendous portable Jun 27 21:31:47 coding help? Yes? Jun 27 21:32:24 I'm using Ajax.Request to detect if file exists. It works fine on small file but not large files. Jun 27 21:32:35 please help. Jun 27 22:47:53 how big is the file? **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 28 00:11:46 2011 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 28 02:59:58 2011