**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 18 02:59:57 2011 Jul 18 03:03:14 egadgetguy: you need to force-refresh to see the change, we have a 1h cache on the wiki Jul 18 03:03:54 ok - I guess refreshing it 50 times isn't good enough Jul 18 03:05:08 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor#How_to_get_the_optional_ext3fs_partition_mounted_at_device_boot Jul 18 03:05:25 is still the same, even on a different browser Jul 18 03:05:28 It now says "Note that you have to use the Meta-Doctor as shown earlier in this page to doctor your device to create the ext3fs partition before attempting the following steps." Jul 18 03:05:59 first line after the "How to get the optional ext3fs partition mounted at device boot" heading Jul 18 03:06:18 ok - not there Jul 18 03:06:30 force-refresh Jul 18 03:06:37 ka6sox: ping Jul 18 03:06:58 I fricken used a different browser how much more refreshed is there Jul 18 03:07:17 egadgetguy: that does nothing to caching on the server side Jul 18 03:07:32 (which is what is happening here) Jul 18 03:08:14 yes? Jul 18 03:08:45 egadgetguy: can't see a change I made to the wiki over an hour ago Jul 18 03:08:55 ka6sox: any idea why? Jul 18 03:09:13 http://www.webos-internals.org/index.php?title=Application%3AMetaDoctor&action=historysubmit&diff=17341&oldid=17333 is the change made Jul 18 03:09:27 ok - I have to read this page again. that info doesn t help me anyway Jul 18 03:09:40 ka6sox: egadgetguy swears he cannot see the "Note that you have to use the Meta-Doctor as shown earlier in this page to doctor your device to create the ext3fs partition before attempting the following steps." line directly after the "How to get the optional ext3fs partition mounted at device boot" heading. Jul 18 03:09:55 egadgetguy: is that the case - you cannot see that line? Jul 18 03:10:03 that is the case Jul 18 03:10:22 then ka6sox is the guy to help you work out why our server is not serving that change to you. Jul 18 03:10:36 since it is serving it to me. Jul 18 03:10:44 wow... that wiki page is crashing the TP. Jul 18 03:10:52 and you can clearly see from that diff page that the change it there on the server. Jul 18 03:11:16 I can see it... Jul 18 03:11:29 so that means there is probably a proxy involved Jul 18 03:11:31 ka6sox: are you logged in? Jul 18 03:11:40 logged into what? Jul 18 03:11:47 into mediawiki Jul 18 03:11:59 am now Jul 18 03:12:07 my assumption is that egadgetguy is not logged in to mediawiki Jul 18 03:12:26 logged in? Jul 18 03:12:43 egadgetguy: you should not need to be Jul 18 03:12:46 Wierd. I now see that line at the top of the page Jul 18 03:12:58 screenshot please Jul 18 03:14:13 ok hold on Jul 18 03:15:54 help uploading pic to here? Jul 18 03:16:04 too long since I tried Jul 18 03:16:16 or I could send it to picasa Jul 18 03:16:21 anywhere will do. Jul 18 03:16:30 twitpic, omploader, etc. Jul 18 03:19:01 rwhitby, that page blows up the TPs browser..... Jul 18 03:19:10 as in luna reset Jul 18 03:19:13 yep Jul 18 03:19:14 reliably Jul 18 03:19:37 which is a good thing Jul 18 03:19:57 probably means there is some embedded control chars Jul 18 03:20:27 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8939704/metadoc_ext.png Jul 18 03:20:40 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8939704/metadoc_ext2.png Jul 18 03:20:58 so those are both correct. what's the problem? Jul 18 03:21:48 first time I saw any of that was last time and it's at the top... Jul 18 03:22:32 dtzWill: I mean there was some discussion around xv where tris didn't work because it split the screen in two so there was a flicker when you played video Jul 18 03:22:58 the solution was to have one tri that was bigger than the screen or something like that, but I'm just trying to understand the drawing code here Jul 18 03:24:47 What am I missing here? How is it that the MD is used to create the mount point. I have read it over and over Jul 18 03:25:21 There is an EXT3FS_PARTITION_SIZE feature documented at the top of the Meta-Doctor Makefile. Jul 18 03:27:25 oh? what page is THAT on? Jul 18 03:29:55 sorry - a little frustrated that I wasn't seeing the other line, then it was not descriptive of the procedure... and now I don't see where this is documented Jul 18 03:37:41 egadgetguy: it's documented in the Makefile - feel free to transfer that to the wiki if you like Jul 18 03:37:53 rwhitby I think I see what you are talking about. I have to edit the makefile to tell it to mount that partition....? Jul 18 03:38:15 no, you have to tell the meta-doctor to *create* that partition Jul 18 03:38:23 ext3fs? Jul 18 03:40:27 I need to boot into ubuntu and look around I guess Jul 18 03:41:25 "make DEVICE=foo CARRIER=bar EXTFS_PARTITION_SIZE=2GB all" will do it Jul 18 03:42:08 OK - but I don't know where you got that Jul 18 03:42:33 seems like 2 gb is a lil small? Jul 18 03:43:33 anymore help needed here? Jul 18 03:44:16 egadgetguy: the wiki page has examples of command line usage, the Makefile has documentation of the options. Jul 18 03:44:42 egadgetguy: you need to be able to put both of those thing together to use it. it's not meant to be point and click. Jul 18 03:45:26 I understand... I just can't find the documentation you keep mentioning Jul 18 03:45:59 ka6sox: where's the best place to learn how to make the ext3fs on-device? Jul 18 03:46:59 egadgetguy: line 143 of http://git.webos-internals.org/tools/meta-doctor/tree/Makefile Jul 18 03:47:33 line 21 says "START OF DOCUMENTATION" pretty clearly Jul 18 03:48:11 and the third line of the wiki page says "Documentation for the features that the MetaDoctor offers is at the top of the Makefile (you find out where that is later)." Jul 18 03:48:35 (third line of http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor) Jul 18 03:48:44 it's even in bold type. Jul 18 03:49:23 funny. searching the wiki sphere didn't find that Jul 18 03:49:25 but if that's not clear enough, feel free to edit that wiki page to add any other clarifications you consider necessary. it's a wiki for a reason. Jul 18 03:50:11 searching for what? you linked to that page earlier. Jul 18 03:50:32 "12:29 egadgetguy: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor#How_to_get_the_optional_ext3fs_partition_mounted_at_device_boot" Jul 18 03:52:33 line three say "you find out where that [the makefile] is later... then there is never a link that tells you where! Jul 18 03:54:34 one more question... do I use the MD 2.1.0 I created back when? Jul 18 03:55:11 i'm thinking I'm off track again. Jul 18 03:56:21 NVM Jul 18 04:00:11 when you clone the git repo it's pretty hard to miss the Makefile Jul 18 04:02:07 rwhitby: sorry if its already asked before, so for trying UbuntuChroot I need to enable EXT3FS_PARTITION_SIZE = 2GB or VAR_PARTITION_SIZE = 2GB ? Jul 18 04:02:36 I already MD my pre using your meta-o2-pre-2.1.0 script Jul 18 04:02:52 and I'd like to try UbuntuChroot Jul 18 04:02:53 kostka: EXT3FS Jul 18 04:03:24 ok, and AFAIK it's gonna wipe out all my files, right? Jul 18 04:04:05 can I just put additional option in your script? or should I do it manually with Makefile? Jul 18 04:04:27 I edited the metdoctor page adding a link to the makefile documentation. no need to rewrite it all Jul 18 04:05:38 and, is 2GB enough for UbuntuChroot testing? Jul 18 04:09:16 depends what you want to install Jul 18 04:09:22 I did 8GB on my 32GB touchpad Jul 18 04:09:37 not much if you want a lot of packages Jul 18 04:10:42 egadgetguy: I would rather there not be links like that, since last time we changed the tool we use to show git repos on the web all those links broke. Jul 18 04:10:48 I'm not looking for much. mainly the office product Jul 18 04:10:50 I guess that's enough, then.. not planning installing a lot.. just try it out to see Ubuntu running on my Pre :) Jul 18 04:11:05 thanks rwhitby and tmzt Jul 18 04:11:19 egadgetguy: if you're at that point, you have the Makefile in front of you and don't need a web link Jul 18 04:11:23 gtg now.. trying it out later and reporting back soon Jul 18 04:11:30 cu guys Jul 18 04:12:07 I don't but what about the nest guy? how do you point them to documentation without a link? Jul 18 04:12:35 and how is that link different from the 50 other links on that page? Jul 18 04:12:48 inquiring minds and all that Jul 18 04:13:10 egadgetguy: what other links? Jul 18 04:13:35 I've done http://www.webos-internals.org/index.php?title=Application%3AMetaDoctor&action=historysubmit&diff=17349&oldid=17347 instead Jul 18 04:17:27 Webos Doctor Versions http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Jul 18 04:17:32 for instance Jul 18 04:18:32 yep, that URL is not going to change Jul 18 04:19:33 egadgetguy: there is no way for you to have know the git repo url is not solid - I'm not hassling you about it. Jul 18 04:19:52 just letting you know why I changed your edit Jul 18 04:19:58 ok Jul 18 04:20:33 will there be anything different on a non-activated [bypassed] pre+ Jul 18 04:20:58 you need to make sure you preserve any other options you need when you doctor Jul 18 04:21:43 ok - I can see I'm not going to figure it all out tonight. Jul 18 04:22:25 some other guys are working on a resize method that does not involve doctoring, but it's not in a state for end-user deployment yet. Jul 18 04:22:29 guess I'll keep all this in mind and work on it later. I didn't expect PNP, but it's a little overwhelming Jul 18 04:23:13 meta-doctoring is a serious step, not for someone who is not sure whether they want to take that step or not. Jul 18 04:23:33 rwhitby: who do I contact to get in on that? Jul 18 04:23:37 that is why I was planning on playing with the spare pre Jul 18 04:24:19 I don't want to mess with my real phone's settings and apps Jul 18 04:24:25 et Jul 18 04:24:25 egadgetguy: good plan Jul 18 04:24:29 yet Jul 18 04:24:52 PatrickC: when it's ready for beta testing it will be announced. Jul 18 04:25:04 rwhitby: I would like to help with the alpha Jul 18 04:31:17 PatrickC: what experience do you have with stopping the cryptofs and lvm resizing? Jul 18 04:31:36 i've don't lvm resizing before Jul 18 04:31:47 I did a dualboot that required it Jul 18 04:32:23 and then I had to wipe the whole thing and manually create partitions again Jul 18 05:12:31 and he's even got spare phones to do it on Jul 18 05:13:12 who? me? Jul 18 05:14:32 I just created a dummy service and I get an error when attempting to run it. It immediately prints "Invalid Permissions" and syslog has something about "No role file for executable" Jul 18 05:14:47 I'm guessing I need to register the service somehow? Jul 18 05:15:45 yep you Jul 18 05:17:15 I added a file to /etc/event.d (I basically copied the mojodb one and edited it) Jul 18 05:17:26 sosborn: oh dear Jul 18 05:17:38 what sort of service is it? Jul 18 05:17:41 dwc-: yep :) Jul 18 05:17:48 I have a pre+ I *never* use Jul 18 05:18:28 It's just a c service based on the one in the hello project. Right now I just have dummy methods that return static strings Jul 18 05:18:37 sosborn: services also have a thing in /var/palm/ls2 Jul 18 05:18:59 with roles, that might be related Jul 18 05:19:01 sosborn: you know you can never get that into the app catalog, right? Jul 18 05:19:19 rwhitby: yep Jul 18 05:19:32 sosborn: ok, then take a look at the postinst script in the hello package Jul 18 05:19:52 you never want to touch /etc/event.d/ Jul 18 05:20:11 new location is /var/palm/event.d/ Jul 18 05:20:20 see the postinst script for details Jul 18 05:20:27 sosborn: what are you working on? Jul 18 05:20:27 Oh, nice Jul 18 05:20:32 thanks Jul 18 05:20:43 what's the intended application? Jul 18 05:21:50 sosborn: what is the service going to do? Jul 18 05:21:59 rwhitby: remote notifications Jul 18 05:22:25 does it need to run as root? Jul 18 05:46:21 xmpp? Jul 18 06:23:12 dgathright: where did you get your T5? Jul 18 06:23:15 or T6? Jul 18 06:23:48 PatrickC: Just at the local hardware store 2 blocks from my apt in SF. If I could find it there, you could find one anywhere. Jul 18 06:24:03 lol Jul 18 06:24:27 I'll look at Home Depot/Lowes Jul 18 07:15:33 Is there a terminal app that runs on the tablet? I'm looking in the Preware catalog and I don't see anything Jul 18 07:17:10 wait, SDLTerminal? Jul 18 07:21:42 sosborn: we just finished work on XServer and XTerm. Jul 18 07:21:56 ~testing-feeds Jul 18 07:21:57 i heard testing-feeds is a means of testing new WebOS Internals products, documented at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Testing_Feeds Jul 18 07:22:06 sosborn: enable the testing feeds, then install Xecutah Jul 18 07:22:50 I don't believe any of the other solutions work on the TouchPad Jul 18 07:24:58 is there a place to download the full webos source from the touchpad except directly from the device? Jul 18 07:26:11 Flashpass: the emulator? Jul 18 07:28:33 unpack the doctor Jul 18 07:28:49 Xuzz: hm, so is there a way to pull all the source off at once? I just kind of want all the files available on disk for reference Jul 18 07:28:54 ah Jul 18 07:28:59 thats a good way Jul 18 07:29:17 Flashpass: well, you could install SSH and scp it over. but rwhitby's way is probably better. Jul 18 07:29:38 yeah, doctor is good, thanks guys Jul 18 14:13:08 Alright...got my phone up and running... Jul 18 14:24:47 This is probably a stupid question but: When you run MetaDoctor, it actually reinstalls WebOS, right? As in, there is no way to run it on an existing WebOS install and have it just modify it. Jul 18 14:32:20 any navit people in here? Jul 18 14:35:03 it launches, then closes itself Jul 18 14:35:09 log shows nothing Jul 18 14:53:03 HebrewzHammer? Jul 18 14:54:01 hape: are you the hApE from beta.ndrive.com? Jul 18 15:29:02 so i think my pre 2 has a problem. i don't think it's going to sleep properly when i press the power button Jul 18 15:29:11 battery life is struggling and its less than a month old Jul 18 15:29:32 anyone else get this before? Jul 18 15:39:53 what does dr. battery say? Jul 18 15:42:20 dr. battery says 100% under health Jul 18 15:42:29 i just made this post on pc w/ screenshot http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-2/280468-official-pre2-bug-list-5.html#post3035272 Jul 18 15:43:05 fired up terminal and lots of sleep/wake up messages while its just sitting there Jul 18 15:49:56 hmm... Jul 18 15:52:17 really haven't screwed with any patches on this phone. stock kernel. preware is installed of course and a few apps but nothing out of the ordinary Jul 18 15:57:03 could poor signal explain it? i didn't think that alone would cause it to go crazy and not sleep properly but that might be it Jul 18 15:57:25 when I have poor signal, my battery dies quickly Jul 18 15:58:34 my pre gets really hot when i have poor signal or turn on gps :) Jul 18 15:58:40 i'm doin a test with airplane mode now to see Jul 18 15:58:51 yeah my phone was super hot this morning Jul 18 15:59:20 mine does that too Jul 18 15:59:22 not sure about my pre2 (not activated *yet*) Jul 18 15:59:27 the friggin battery is my only complaint about the phone... it's done great w/ everything else Jul 18 16:00:02 i gave up on my pre plus that has a bad modem and got the pre 2 on verizon. liking it a lot Jul 18 16:01:03 still seeing the sleep/wake up messages in terminal w/ airplane mode on however Jul 18 16:01:12 I'm gonna build a pre2 for sprint Jul 18 16:01:38 Anyone know what might cause this: /usr/lib/libpdl.so: undefined reference to `__aeabi_atexit@CXXABI_ARM_1.3.3' Jul 18 16:01:47 I'm attempting to compile on the device Jul 18 16:02:14 no clue Jul 18 16:12:02 sosborn - the code is referring to a object that hasn't been defined. Jul 18 16:12:25 That usually happens when you're missing a library that you need, or have the wrong version of a library that you need. Jul 18 16:12:33 (there are other things, but those are the most common) Jul 18 16:19:55 ugggg yea govnah shows while plugged in and power button is pressed to sleep it chills at 300mhz Jul 18 16:20:09 when unplugged its pegged at 1ghz while 'sleeping' Jul 18 16:38:36 hm, nodoze seems to be keeping the cpu at 300mhz on battery Jul 18 16:38:44 this may be all i need Jul 18 16:38:48 still frustrating tho Jul 18 16:50:09 what is the advantage of creating a new ext3fs partition over creating an ext3fs image and mounting it for the ubuntu chroot? Jul 18 17:00:22 not sure Jul 18 17:01:03 I'm wanting to do it w/o doctoring Jul 18 17:01:26 willing to help alpha that process too Jul 18 17:01:57 elpollodiabo1, the ext3fs is designed to survive doctoring Jul 18 17:02:19 if the image file is in internals, I thought that doesnt get wiped? Jul 18 17:03:05 scoutcamper: likelyhood of doing it w/o doctoring? Jul 18 17:03:20 PatrickC, not likely Jul 18 17:03:26 really? Jul 18 17:04:06 rwhitby said that some people were working on it last night.. Jul 18 17:04:15 was wondering if you knew anything about it... Jul 18 17:04:42 I thought they were working on a script to resize and partition with out the need for dr Jul 18 17:05:21 ka6sox is working on a script to do it without doctoring, but im old school. Make a doctor! Jul 18 17:05:33 lol haha Jul 18 17:05:38 ka6sox: ping :) Jul 18 17:05:41 scoutcamper: haha Jul 18 17:06:33 I am not a fan of doctoring, and I dont like creating new partitions and resizing old ones. would rather have a controlable image file, that I can store in internals and delete and mess around with if need be Jul 18 17:07:32 elpollodiabo1: performance for one Jul 18 17:07:38 elpollodiabo1, if you use the ubuntu chroot from the feeds you can do a 2 button chroot start through xecutah, image file takes more work Jul 18 17:08:24 from what I read if I mount the image to /media/ext3fs it will do it for me Jul 18 17:08:37 so all I have to worry about is a mount which I can write my own little script. Jul 18 17:09:03 I figured performance might be an issue, but I dont plan on doing anything to performance demanding Jul 18 17:09:37 more or less just to test it out and have a back up solution if my other options dont work and I can do it through the ubuntu chroot Jul 18 17:10:02 raw device vs running an ext3fs loop on a cryptofs on an ext3fs Jul 18 17:10:03 scoutcamper: but the chroot from the feeds still needs the ext3fs, doesn't it? Jul 18 17:10:14 PatrickC, correct Jul 18 17:10:37 hmm.. ok Jul 18 17:10:41 you can make an ext3fs image Jul 18 17:10:46 I'll wait to talk with ka6sox Jul 18 17:10:57 elpollodiabo1: lemme know what you do Jul 18 17:10:58 dwc good point Jul 18 17:11:45 elpollodiabo1, an image is always an option, untill 2 days ago i was using an image. i was running a gui and doing multiple things, perfromance was crap, so i bit the bullet, doctored, and did the ext3fs partition. perfrormance is miles better Jul 18 17:12:21 * scoutcamper is also working on minecraft in chroot Jul 18 17:12:57 scoutcamper: : thanks for the first hand experience. like I said I dont think I will actually be using the ubuntu chroot much, just as a last resort. Jul 18 17:13:22 understood Jul 18 17:13:46 scoutcamper: don't do it, pocket minecraft is too dangerous a distraction ;) Jul 18 17:14:30 Oh god no, Minecraft on my Pre is the last thing I need. Jul 18 17:14:44 elpollodiabo1, the guide i followed for the image is here. http://howtonode.org/arm-chroot-fun Jul 18 17:21:30 scoutcamper: thanks for the link, from my understanding I would not actually have to worry about setting up the chroot or ubuntu, I believe that is taken care of by xecutah and the ubuntu-chroot apps. all I need is an empty image that is mounted /media/ext3fs or where ever the chroot location is. Jul 18 17:28:06 hello. Jul 18 17:29:49 can I ask a question? Jul 18 17:30:17 go Jul 18 17:30:34 ask away Jul 18 17:31:35 i tried to backup the complete content of a pre (webos 1.4.5) Jul 18 17:31:41 so far so goog. Jul 18 17:32:18 restored the backup to a another pre. same version of webos, same model of pre. Jul 18 17:32:35 appears to work ok. for a few minutes to a pair of hours Jul 18 17:33:16 then a "You're no longer signed to your palm profile" message appears, and the device reboots to first use. Jul 18 17:33:57 is the old one still on and connected to the palm profile? Jul 18 17:34:37 There are probably some hardware specific things that need to be changed so a complete copy probably wont work. Jul 18 17:34:54 the other one is powered off. Jul 18 17:35:24 (and, given the comm board is busted, will never connect anymore) Jul 18 17:36:01 actually i tried several things. Jul 18 17:36:08 I dont know if anyone has ever successfully copied everything over to a new phone and it worked. most people have copied over dbs and certain files and that is good enough. Jul 18 17:36:20 first i changed the new device serial numers to be the ones of the old. Jul 18 17:36:26 same. Jul 18 17:37:05 i've seen the IMEI of the device is mentioned in the PalmDatabase.db3 Jul 18 17:37:30 one can't change the imei. so i changed the content of PalmDatabase.db3 Jul 18 17:37:31 same. Jul 18 17:39:38 one must assume there's no safe way to restore. Jul 18 17:39:46 the rsync method clearly does not work. Jul 18 17:39:55 what exactly are you trying to transfer? Jul 18 17:40:14 like do you need all the linux files or just like your messages and so on? Jul 18 17:40:35 messages, calendars, and so on. Jul 18 17:40:59 the more the better. Jul 18 17:41:14 have you checked out Save & Restore? Jul 18 17:44:51 it does not restore. Jul 18 17:45:30 hrm. for some reason, my opensshd didn't run at boot time. respawned 11 times, with no other messages in the logs Jul 18 17:45:49 started up fine by hand though... Jul 18 17:45:55 dwc-: no networking available, most likely Jul 18 17:47:08 PatrickC, yes? Jul 18 17:47:44 was saying. save & restore does not really restore messaging or calls. Jul 18 17:48:42 hm, how does one specify dependencies in this fancy upstart thingamajigger Jul 18 17:48:51 I am out of ideas, since I haven ot actually had to restore a device yet. you might want to come back later and ask later when it is more active. Jul 18 17:48:54 actually, i would be happy even if the palm profile was disabled. Jul 18 17:49:10 under webos 1.4.5 it's useless. Jul 18 17:49:31 and i live in an unsupported country (italy) so the app catalog is useless too. Jul 18 17:49:53 dwc- no idea. i tried several things but nothing works Jul 18 17:50:27 I beleive there is a way to bypass activation, there should be a link somewhere, might want to check developer.palm.com Jul 18 17:50:59 dwc- in the end i put a relatively long (10s) sleep in the pre-start script. Jul 18 17:51:27 elpollodiabo1: the gsm device is very easy to start without activation. Jul 18 17:51:44 you just touch /var/luna/preferences/ran-first-use Jul 18 17:52:14 but when i copy over the PalmDatabase.db3 and restart Jul 18 17:52:30 the original device was connected to the profile. Jul 18 17:52:39 so i'm back to square one. Jul 18 17:52:50 i've even tried to copy the full flash. Jul 18 17:53:03 probably it would work if i could change the IMEI. Jul 18 17:53:16 but it does not sound like a solution to the backup problem. Jul 18 17:55:34 if I meta-doctor to create that ext3sf partition, do I lose all my files in /media/internal? or is the meta-doctor smart enough to do non-destructive partition manipulation? Jul 18 17:56:27 I read that the meta-doctor is smart enough. Jul 18 17:56:29 why would you take the chance of it being wiped out without backing it up first? Jul 18 17:56:52 but i also read that you can restore from a device to another with rsync. whereas it does NOT work. Jul 18 17:57:23 i'm definitely backing up, i'm just curious how much work i'll have to do to get it all back. Jul 18 17:57:23 a lot on the webos internal wiki is obsolete. Jul 18 17:57:29 and not running save/restore first too. Jul 18 17:58:03 idg, do you have an account on the wiki? Jul 18 17:58:11 yep. Jul 18 17:58:18 then update away! Jul 18 17:58:27 i plan to do that. Jul 18 17:58:35 good Jul 18 17:59:04 but discovering that the backup plan i was counting on does not work is a bit of a letdown. Jul 18 17:59:41 webos changes, and we don't control that. Jul 18 17:59:56 did you check precentral, there might be a topic of two over there that has some info. Jul 18 17:59:57 apparently nobody cares enough to even stamp a "OBSOLETE. DOES NOT WORK" at the top. Jul 18 18:00:24 idg, you have the power to do that :D Jul 18 18:01:03 yeah. Jul 18 18:01:16 "does not work on X device using X.X webOS version. Jul 18 18:01:57 a blanket statement saying it doesnt' work is misleading. Jul 18 18:02:10 given the symptoms, probably does not work unless you restore on the same device you did backup. Jul 18 18:02:12 unless you have tested on every device with every version of webOS Jul 18 18:03:24 idg, thats a good thing for the discussion page for that article so others can test too. Jul 18 18:03:34 yeah, that's the plan. Jul 18 18:04:03 go to it mon, :D Jul 18 18:08:32 Wow...usb transfer is SLOW Jul 18 18:09:14 It's taken an hour to transfer 5 gigs. Jul 18 18:09:14 the Re|Captcha is incredibly hard. Jul 18 18:09:16 and counting. Jul 18 18:09:32 either that or i'm less and less human as the time goes by... Jul 18 18:10:00 haha Jul 18 18:11:01 ok. doctorin' the house again Jul 18 18:17:06 usb is slow. the flash itself is pretty slow too Jul 18 18:32:07 ok. i'm trying something different. Jul 18 18:32:15 removed the device from the profile. Jul 18 18:32:22 doctoring. Jul 18 18:32:35 creating a new profile. Jul 18 18:32:37 restoring. Jul 18 18:33:16 if this does not work, well... Jul 18 18:54:46 Is anyone else experiencing very...very slow transfer speeds with a Pre+? Jul 18 18:54:50 USB. Jul 18 18:55:30 how slow is "very slow" Jul 18 18:56:18 Let's see....let me do the math, hang on.. Jul 18 18:57:54 700Kbps... Jul 18 18:58:12 Kbps? or kb/s? Jul 18 18:58:43 RavenII_: transfers to what? novacom? usbnet? usb disk mode? Jul 18 18:58:45 that's the same...you mean KB vs Kb....Kb Jul 18 18:59:04 idg: usb disk mode Jul 18 18:59:13 700 KBYTES/SEC? Jul 18 18:59:18 write or read? Jul 18 18:59:25 Write Jul 18 18:59:25 write is waaaaay slower Jul 18 18:59:27 well, Kbps definitely has only one meaning Jul 18 18:59:39 kb/s most people mean kilobytes per second Jul 18 19:02:11 so you're saying you only get 700 kilobits per second? Jul 18 19:02:31 right Jul 18 19:02:56 300kbytes-1mbyte per second is plausible. Jul 18 19:03:06 slower means something wrong somewhere. Jul 18 19:03:14 Right...ok...that's what I thought. Jul 18 19:03:32 my pre2 only gets ~1.5MB/s over usb Jul 18 19:03:54 raw device access dd if=file | novacom run 'file:///bin/dd of=/dev/mmcblk0' is around 300-400 kbytes/sec Jul 18 19:05:02 the other way around is around 5 megabytes per second. Jul 18 19:07:31 trust me. i tried. Jul 18 19:07:38 quite a numer of times :-) Jul 18 19:11:42 ah... happiness... a medium rare cut of skirt steak... Jul 18 19:11:54 Nice... Jul 18 19:11:54 all my backup/restore whoes do seem so far away... Jul 18 19:12:46 Doing a test with crystalmark I get 11MB/s read and 3.5MB/s write Jul 18 19:13:21 that's ok. Jul 18 19:13:54 when you go thru the block device cache it's faster Jul 18 19:16:01 (syncing. poor thing. it's so fantastically slow with the stock kernel) Jul 18 19:18:20 (once you use psycho's AV8B, the default is *PAINFUL*) Jul 18 19:18:38 AV8B? Jul 18 19:19:07 the 1GHz kernel for pre/pre+ Jul 18 19:19:11 from unixpsycho Jul 18 19:19:53 the stock pre kernel it's like walking after you tried flying. Jul 18 19:22:07 aww... this skirt steak is awesome. Jul 18 19:31:16 ok. i don't care anymore. i have the DB3. i can move the data if i'm so inclined. Jul 18 19:31:26 webos 2.1.x here i come. Jul 18 19:31:54 if anyone is interested. moving the PalmDatabase.db3 over a freshly registered device does not work either. Jul 18 19:32:27 it's quite conclusive. backing up with rsync or copying the disk byte-by-byte does not work. Jul 18 19:32:36 with webos 1.4.5 atleast. Jul 18 19:32:37 Is sprint telenav free? Jul 18 19:32:54 not sure. i think you need to pay sprint Jul 18 19:33:07 Hmm... Jul 18 19:33:08 maybe it's part of some phone's integrated plan Jul 18 19:33:24 And google navigation doesn't...exist... Jul 18 19:33:30 hu? Jul 18 19:33:55 well. google maps provides some bits of navigation. Jul 18 19:34:01 not turn by turn. no. Jul 18 19:47:00 does the facebook app show photos correctly for anyone? its never worked so hot on my phones Jul 18 19:47:23 worked fine with webos 1.4.5 Jul 18 19:47:46 but you don't see ALL the photos. Jul 18 19:48:04 you get to see only some of the albums. Jul 18 19:50:33 kevets: nah, it takes me to the "website" Jul 18 19:50:38 for a few of them... Jul 18 19:50:46 yep. Jul 18 19:51:06 some get you to the website. Jul 18 19:51:13 weird bug. Jul 18 19:52:20 (this irc client - MangoIRC, MacOS - sucks) Jul 18 19:57:16 yeah i have a launcher link to the facebook web site Jul 18 19:57:38 seems to work better than the app Jul 18 19:57:46 would be nice if they updated it one day Jul 18 20:06:34 What does "Tellurium service not available" mean? Jul 18 20:21:42 I should send the link for 1.7.0 Preware to people with a TouchPad? Jul 18 20:23:34 what do you mean? Jul 18 20:23:55 I just wanted to send a straight get.preware.org/asdf.ipk link to them Jul 18 20:24:00 and there are two versions Jul 18 20:24:04 1.5.0 and 1.7.0 Jul 18 20:24:23 I got it under control now :D Jul 18 20:24:35 heh Jul 18 20:42:52 Let's say there's a directory of videos on my server, is there an app to stream them to the pre? Jul 18 20:43:03 not afaik Jul 18 21:08:02 am i silly, or how do you use the file:// browser patch? :( Jul 18 21:08:05 just says unable to load file :( Jul 18 21:08:59 as soon as i speakup, i _am_ silly :) Jul 18 21:09:07 file:///media/internal/blah Jul 18 21:10:36 what were you trying to do? Jul 18 21:11:05 ah, well i'm good now. Jul 18 21:11:10 i'm playing machinarium on my tp :) Jul 18 21:11:47 without needing a local http server Jul 18 21:12:02 although doesn't go fullscreen like it did before, hrm Jul 18 21:13:25 cute game, makes lots of sense on the tp :) Jul 18 21:13:30 or on a tablet anywa Jul 18 21:41:56 Anyone familar with PDK plugins? I have a really simple Enyo app that doesn't seem to load my plugin at all Jul 18 21:42:06 when I run ps it never shows up Jul 18 21:42:29 here is my plugin http://pastebin.com/qUcucZQU Jul 18 21:43:31 The only thing that looks suspicious in the logs is this http://pastebin.com/3JZbCvQP but I haven't found anything on it Jul 18 21:44:47 oil_: Lumberjack works again.. Jul 18 21:55:29 Here is the entire Enyo app (with arm binary) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/994681/enyo_plugin.tar.gz Jul 18 21:55:39 what's it do? Jul 18 21:55:42 If I run the plugin solo it seems to function ok Jul 18 21:56:03 It recieves remote notifications Jul 18 21:56:08 cool Jul 18 21:56:12 and should display a banner message on receipt Jul 18 21:56:24 but right now it doesn't even run the plugin on startup Jul 18 21:56:29 and I have no idea why Jul 18 22:02:06 sosborn: have you copied what the Hello! app does for plugin handling in enyo? Jul 18 22:02:35 Yeah, this is basically a stripped down version Jul 18 22:02:49 I threw out any mojo specific stuff Jul 18 22:03:01 does the binary run manually? Jul 18 22:03:10 It does Jul 18 22:04:31 sosborn: I don't see an SDL_INIT in your source code? Jul 18 22:08:23 dwc-: opensshd boot failure is on which device? Jul 18 22:09:08 pre2 Jul 18 22:09:24 it's come up on boot normally previously, just not this time Jul 18 22:09:54 given idg's suggestion that the network wasn't up yet, should the upstart dependency be on network up? Jul 18 22:11:09 idg: yes, moving PalmDatabase.db3 files does not work. Not sure who told you it would. Jul 18 22:11:33 sosborn: the Tellurium errors are spurious, BTW. Jul 18 22:11:34 * egadgetguy is back Jul 18 22:12:34 got to play with a touchpad today. It was awesome. can't wait til I get mine Jul 18 22:13:17 rwhitby: I added the call to sdl_init (thanks) and I get the same results :( Jul 18 22:13:47 dwc-: we do need more deps in the opensshd upstart. e.g. start on started org.webosinternals.optware Jul 18 22:14:11 egadgetguy: I know! I loved when I played with it Jul 18 22:14:12 sosborn: have you been able to get Hello! to work as-is? (checking your toolchain, etc) Jul 18 22:14:52 * egadgetguy wants one bad. It guy is gonna make sure my boss gets me one Jul 18 22:15:10 IT Jul 18 22:16:39 We have to test our streaming videos on it so our clients will be able to watch on the TP. It already works on PC, MAC, linux, iPad, iPhone, Itouch... testing WebOS and android Jul 18 22:17:33 cool Jul 18 22:18:38 we're coding it to recognize what system is connecting and serve the right content Jul 18 22:30:24 * rwhitby bbl Jul 18 22:41:22 Is anyone working on a patch so we can use CalDAV in WebOS? Is this even possible? Jul 18 22:43:08 you can probably sync your caldav to google calendar, and then from there Jul 18 22:43:50 Yeh, I'm basically doing that now Jul 18 22:44:08 it looks like there's some synergy calendaring services, so I would assume it's possible Jul 18 22:45:02 iirc MobileMe is calDav, so on 3.0 (if that's true), you can do some forms of CalDav Jul 18 22:46:04 AFAIK Google Calendar is CalDAV Jul 18 22:46:36 you know, now that you say that, I think you're right Jul 18 22:46:41 so, google calendar syncs Jul 18 22:46:48 I'll have a dig - I just got a Pre 2 and I want to use CalDAV and CardDAV Jul 18 22:47:05 And I don't really want to use a middleman long term Jul 18 22:47:22 but I'm not sure how easy it is to sync to a personal "generic" synergy (or if it's possible) Jul 18 22:47:33 And I can't believe I'm the only person who has come to this :P Jul 18 22:48:18 I assume most people use Google Jul 18 22:48:26 or MS Exchange Jul 18 22:48:42 right Jul 18 22:49:04 Yeh Jul 18 22:49:06 on 2.1, looks like there aren't any generic options Jul 18 22:49:38 which isn't really the premise, if you think about it conceptually Jul 18 22:49:56 ? Jul 18 22:49:59 webOS seems to be designed with the idea that users want to collect all their cloud data in on e place Jul 18 22:50:18 hehe Jul 18 22:50:19 which means the assumption that you're using one of the cloud providers is built-in pretty deeply Jul 18 22:50:31 I'm using a cloud provider Jul 18 22:50:57 it's a box in canary wharf running davical ;) Jul 18 22:51:10 it's not cloud if you run it yourself :-P Jul 18 22:52:07 If I've learned one thing about cloud it's that there are as many definitions as there are products Jul 18 22:52:35 I think you're referring to SaaS, in which case no I'm not Jul 18 22:52:53 Although I guess that means my family and friends are ;) Jul 18 22:53:06 But yeh, I see no reason not to have CalDAV as an option Jul 18 22:53:30 So you reckon there are APIs for the Calendaring program? Jul 18 22:58:47 Okay, considering what I've just read that probably sounds really stupid Jul 18 22:59:08 Looks like I need to learn about 'Synergy Connectors' Jul 18 23:01:25 I believe there are ways to write synergy connectors for pretty much any service you want Jul 18 23:01:40 although I expect the API assumes that you're using a web API Jul 18 23:01:50 maybe not Jul 18 23:02:18 generally "cloud" means someone running data centers, backed by big storage, and providing a simplistic API for certain things you want to do Jul 18 23:02:31 so yes, technically SaaS, but still Jul 18 23:07:26 Hehe Jul 18 23:07:30 Yeh, I'll read up on it Jul 18 23:07:50 Doesn't look that hard, though maybe I'm being naive Jul 19 00:13:10 hello Jul 19 00:18:58 anyone able to help with a git and branching question? Jul 19 00:21:23 I am trying to set up a branch of my main project so I do "git branch mybranch" it creates a new branch but does that create a new directory, how do I edit the branch files and not the master files? Jul 19 00:22:14 when ever I check out the branch and edit the files and switch back to the master the changes are there. what am I missing? Jul 19 00:23:35 git checkout branch Jul 19 00:23:39 git checkout master to go back Jul 19 00:23:56 git is not svn, that's what you're missing Jul 19 00:25:38 it jsut depends on which ever branch I am in not actually what the files or directory it is? so what ever is in my cloned directory is going to be for which ever branch I am set to? Jul 19 00:43:35 elpollodiabo1: git stores it's data under .git and it maintains the current 'working tree' in your directory Jul 19 00:43:51 you'll see that if you fail to commit something and checkout a confilicting file for instance Jul 19 00:43:58 it will simple fail to checkout Jul 19 00:44:17 git branches and tags are actually references to a specific sha1 of a commit Jul 19 00:44:26 you can see this if you cat files under .git/info Jul 19 00:45:08 to answer your question ,yes Jul 19 00:53:09 ok my approach isnt working, so what is the best way to set up git repo to support a free and paid version of an app? free is just a limited version of the other one. Jul 19 00:53:50 since you need to share code, maybe just make it conditional at compiile time? Jul 19 00:56:59 ok what about this situation, I have aphone version that I made before a tablet was created. some additions have occured to the original project which are not part of the phone version and not easily merged in. is there away to have 1 repo for both cases? like the master would be the full app and a branch or another repo would be the phone version. Jul 19 00:59:02 can't reset my theme, it says there is no theme downloaded. Jul 19 01:03:38 elpollodiabo1: separate subdirs and symlinks Jul 19 02:08:05 rwhitby: i've successfully created ext3fs and running UbuntuChroot in Pre with webOS 2.1.0 :) Jul 19 02:08:16 just reporting back like I promised yesterday Jul 19 02:08:20 kostka: meta doctor? Jul 19 02:08:22 thx for the help Jul 19 02:08:31 PatrickC: yes, meta-doctor Jul 19 02:08:44 kostka: excellent Jul 19 02:25:51 hello webos-internals, thanks for all the brew! Jul 19 02:26:22 hey Jul 19 02:26:26 I would like to doctor a phone that has a broken volume 'cable' (from sub-optimal disassembly) Jul 19 02:26:35 hi PatrickC :) Jul 19 02:27:26 I don't believe you can fix the volume cable Jul 19 02:27:34 but a regular doctor should work.. Jul 19 02:27:43 yes, I'm not hoping for that... but Jul 19 02:27:48 well to do a doctor Jul 19 02:27:58 you have to get into the 'special' usb mode by Jul 19 02:28:07 power on with the 'up volume' key pressed Jul 19 02:28:23 but.... I don't have an up volume key anymore... :^/ Jul 19 02:28:25 notcalvin, you dont have to do that Jul 19 02:28:27 you don't *have* to Jul 19 02:28:30 ahhh Jul 19 02:28:40 notcalvin, you can doctor while os is booted Jul 19 02:29:02 just hit "Just Charge" when you plug it into the pc Jul 19 02:29:13 ahh ok Jul 19 02:29:38 I will try that, and if that doesn't work, then i guess my problem is the 'simpler' - the doctor does not see my pre Jul 19 02:29:49 that is very helpful to know! Jul 19 02:30:38 notcalvin: does the device boot? Jul 19 02:30:43 so is the kindle app purely touchpad? Jul 19 02:30:49 or is it also mojo/pre Jul 19 02:31:30 * PatrickC installed it on my pre2 Jul 19 02:32:25 do we have to put enyo on the device? Jul 19 02:32:56 matbee_: it's enyo Jul 19 02:33:26 bah Jul 19 02:37:58 matbee_: its not hard to put enyo on a device Jul 19 02:38:34 PatrickC, but it does violate enyo's license Jul 19 02:38:43 yup Jul 19 02:38:51 why would it? Jul 19 02:40:03 read the enyo license Jul 19 02:43:39 well, technically, I'm not sure I can use the webos doctor Jul 19 02:43:56 why? Jul 19 02:44:20 I didn't purchase my device? Jul 19 02:44:48 and it also seems to have some clause about not modifying or altering the software Jul 19 02:46:24 ah Jul 19 02:46:52 (IANAL) Jul 19 02:48:04 that being said I don't see a license to enyo as a whole in the 3.0 doctor Jul 19 02:48:34 not in /usr/palm/frameworks/enyo anyways Jul 19 02:49:34 hmm Jul 19 02:49:45 PatrickC, I simply copy it to that folder? Jul 19 02:50:00 right now, not gonna say.. Jul 19 02:50:01 sorry Jul 19 02:50:03 ...and i only have the desktop enyo Jul 19 02:50:06 srsly? Jul 19 02:50:19 yeah. not sure if I'm allowed now.. Jul 19 02:51:23 now, that being said, a palm person last week at the html5 meetup referenced enyo not being licensed for non-palm devices Jul 19 02:51:37 heh Jul 19 02:51:44 rwhitby: the device boots and runs fine, and i just now got "unable to reset device" by putting it in dev mode, restarting, starting vzw doctor, plugging in phone when told to, then charge only, then the "unable to reset device" Jul 19 02:51:50 so many different SDK's for so many different platforms Jul 19 02:51:52 im disgusted Jul 19 02:51:54 but didn't mention anything about putting it on devices it wasn't officially on Jul 19 02:52:02 there are _two_ sdk's Jul 19 02:52:28 if only Palm knew how to make proper/modern webkit standards Jul 19 02:52:37 it should be at the same rate/better than chromium **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 19 02:59:56 2011