**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 25 02:59:57 2011 Jul 25 03:00:28 rwhitby: ping Jul 25 03:01:09 I can't install omap3_usbload .. Jul 25 03:01:14 it won't run.. Jul 25 03:05:01 how do you guys talk in red and make my computer buzz me Jul 25 03:05:41 kill_dano: like that? Jul 25 03:05:46 :( Jul 25 03:05:51 yes Jul 25 03:06:01 it's what happens when someone says your name Jul 25 03:06:15 oh Jul 25 03:06:24 kill_dano Jul 25 03:06:25 to let you know someone is talking to you Jul 25 03:06:28 rwhitby: got it to work. thanks!!!!!!!!!! Jul 25 03:06:49 * rwhitby knew telekenesis would do the trick Jul 25 03:06:58 kill_dano: you need to say someone else's name :) Jul 25 03:07:20 rwhitby, I unmounted /media/ext3fs and I still see the ubuntu natty directory and it's full of stuff Jul 25 03:07:38 delete it? or is this expected behaviour? Jul 25 03:07:43 kill_dano: that's what has filled your / partition Jul 25 03:07:53 thanks, friend Jul 25 03:08:17 oh brother.... Jul 25 03:08:21 so it begins Jul 25 03:09:34 anyone know how to use iwpriv to manually connect using a palm pre plus's wifi? Jul 25 03:12:10 has anyone connected their pre to wifi using the command line before? Jul 25 03:12:53 root / is 76% capacity. is that about normal? Jul 25 03:14:11 kill_dano, its only like 500MB Jul 25 03:14:16 mine's usually 90% Jul 25 03:14:22 sweet thanx Jul 25 03:14:33 which is fine, cause there should never be anything written to it Jul 25 03:15:05 unless you're me :p Jul 25 03:15:21 I can see all these chroots without partitioning are going to be "interesting" as they fill up wrong places Jul 25 03:17:00 ka6sox: meh - we'll just tell 'em to doctor. Jul 25 03:17:03 partitioning or not, if the mount doesn't happen for whatever reason ... Jul 25 03:17:51 then a chroot shouldn't be installed where there isn't a separate mountpoint that is on on / Jul 25 03:18:21 instead of a file or real partition Jul 25 03:19:17 suggestion? set /media/ext3fs to 000 Jul 25 03:19:25 then you /can't/ write to it unless there's something mounted there Jul 25 03:19:48 dwc-, that won't work for stock builds Jul 25 03:20:18 why not? Jul 25 03:20:21 better to test how much space is there. Jul 25 03:20:35 because the installer would have to be saavy enough to detect that. Jul 25 03:20:51 if [ -x /media/ext3fs ] ? Jul 25 03:21:15 or, it'll just fail hard when it can't write anything Jul 25 03:21:16 and it doesn't prevent the 47 different P|C articles that say just go ahead and use a loop mount on /media/iternal Jul 25 03:21:32 http://pastebin.com/uYYtgYin Jul 25 03:21:35 any idea? Jul 25 03:21:45 and if thats not setup right it still doesnt' fix things. Jul 25 03:21:57 oh, well, they're really truly not supported Jul 25 03:22:21 right...but that is whats out there Jul 25 03:22:33 if someone has copied your docs, then I suppose it's too late for those Jul 25 03:22:51 but at least future users of your docs will be ok Jul 25 03:23:02 I guess we can't keep people from hurting themselves and I should just do it right. Jul 25 03:23:21 time for me to jet...long drive still ahead Jul 25 03:24:30 * rwhitby is working on testing lvm resizing right now Jul 25 03:27:24 rwhitby, awesome Jul 25 03:27:33 anyone have any idea on the failed doctor? Jul 25 03:28:59 lines 205 to 316 are pretty clear Jul 25 03:30:33 how would u fix that? Jul 25 03:33:41 looks like a hardware problem to me Jul 25 03:33:53 ugg... that stinks Jul 25 03:33:56 thanks rwhitby Jul 25 03:34:26 if a comms board pin gets moved a little, would that cause it? Jul 25 03:34:45 easily Jul 25 03:34:50 man.. Jul 25 03:34:57 thats probably what happened Jul 25 03:35:01 any remedy? Jul 25 03:35:14 yeah, don't screw the hardware Jul 25 03:35:30 * halfhalo likes that plan Jul 25 03:35:37 is there *any* way to provision on a pre2? using a sprint comms board? Jul 25 03:36:14 * rwhitby lives in a country with no CDMA carriers Jul 25 03:36:22 easiest way is to change to GSM Jul 25 03:36:23 so, u dont know? Jul 25 03:36:30 yeah.. not possible atm Jul 25 03:36:37 is there anyway to trick the pre into thinking I have an account? Jul 25 03:36:47 in what way? Jul 25 03:36:51 to gain app cat access? Jul 25 03:36:56 * rwhitby points to Impostah Jul 25 03:37:03 I think I'm stuck because I don't have 3g on usually Jul 25 03:37:11 just upgraded to WebOS 2.1 Jul 25 03:37:42 I got internet working via novaterm and usb internet but it still won't let me register Jul 25 03:37:44 any ideas? Jul 25 03:37:46 oh, 2.1 is easy. us #*DEVMODE# Jul 25 03:37:57 then Impostah Jul 25 03:38:27 there's a thread I wrote on PreCentral showing how to do it. sticky in our sub-forum Jul 25 03:39:07 rwhitby, can u bypass the modemdiag ? Jul 25 03:40:39 if i disable modem update w/ a meta-doctor, would it still provision? Jul 25 03:42:39 would downgrading get me control of the phone back? Jul 25 03:46:03 gQuigs: #*DEVMODE# and Impostah, on 2.1 Jul 25 03:46:21 oh.. Jul 25 03:47:27 thanks rwhitby Jul 25 03:47:47 they made dev mode shorter? Jul 25 03:50:16 more powerful version Jul 25 04:00:27 rwhitby, ping Jul 25 04:00:46 i told my meta-doctor to disable modem updater, yet it still failed because of the modem Jul 25 04:09:04 are there any long term issues about operating with no palm profile? Jul 25 04:26:26 thanks again :) it's working now Jul 25 06:37:20 Ugh. Just bought a verizon pixi plus, and the full reset does absolutely nothing. The hardware reset doesn't do anything either Jul 25 06:37:26 I can't delete the existing profile at all Jul 25 06:38:11 Sorry, should add "bought a verizon pixi plus from a guy on craigslist" Jul 25 06:48:36 piroko: webos doctor Jul 25 07:35:55 PatrickC: Alright cool. That worked. Now, the phone has apparently been flashed to cricket, since when I dial *228, I get the cricket welcome message Jul 25 07:36:10 I thought flashing it with webos doctor would put it back on verizon -_- Jul 25 07:36:14 I don't know how to fix that Jul 25 07:36:21 That makes two of us. heh Jul 25 07:36:51 the doctor just puts it back to factory Jul 25 07:36:56 it doesn't change the carrier Jul 25 07:40:31 piroko: if you stick around, someone might know how to help.. Jul 25 07:40:37 Alright, will do Jul 25 07:40:52 It's annoying because every guide I've found goes from Verizon to Cricket. Never the other way around Jul 25 07:42:25 follow the steps backward? Jul 25 07:42:29 sorry.. I have no clue Jul 25 07:42:32 I'm on sprint Jul 25 07:43:04 haha. Doesn't seem like it works that way :) Jul 25 07:43:21 worth a try :) Jul 25 07:45:15 Well the problem is you overwrite some numbers that are already there Jul 25 07:45:31 So I have no idea what those original numbers were Jul 25 07:45:41 ah Jul 25 07:45:43 tokens? Jul 25 07:47:35 No clue Jul 25 07:47:48 ok.. sorry I'm not of more help :/ Jul 25 07:48:00 I'm off to bed.. its almost 3am here lol Jul 25 07:48:07 night.. and good luck! :) Jul 25 08:03:28 so I guess since ubuntu churoot is compiled for ARM I can't install normal .deb files... any way around this? I wanna instal flash Jul 25 11:13:26 hello Jul 25 11:15:38 i have a question about upgrading my pre minus to webos 2.1: my pre's original carrier is O2 but it is now unlocked. will it still be unlocked after the flashing? Jul 25 11:16:36 hello? Jul 25 12:54:24 I want to install SSH and SFTP on my Pre2, but every page I find on the WebOS Internals wiki says that it's deprecated... Where can I find a non-deprecated one? Jul 25 13:00:36 found it :) http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH - should be on the Getting Started / Accessing Linux page Jul 25 13:03:06 pc-world: that's the homepage documentation link for the OpenSSH package in Preware. Why do people never click on the HomePage link in Preware to get information about the packages they are installing? Jul 25 13:03:26 I did this time, and that's why I found it Jul 25 13:03:53 If you find any other pages about SSH on the wiki, please point them to that one. Jul 25 13:04:48 ok, I'll do Jul 25 14:40:55 Hello? Jul 25 15:00:22 how to build the WIDK with only the necessary packages for compiling for webOS? So things like SDL, OpenGL, libc, ... and not packages like Navit Jul 25 15:20:58 I was getting ready to answer pc-world... but he left... Jul 25 15:21:08 RavenII, Hello! Jul 25 15:22:44 Did you guys know...that there's no Shazam type app for the pre?... Jul 25 15:22:56 yes we did know that Jul 25 15:23:15 someone should make one Jul 25 15:23:50 I wish someone would, I really want one Jul 25 15:24:27 swisstomcat tweeted something that would provide a decent back-end, possibly Jul 25 15:24:37 but I don't remember what the link was Jul 25 19:11:34 Is there a task manager like Astrid for WebOS?...that's the main thing I miss from my....Evo...that's what I had. Jul 25 19:12:51 RavenII: what do you want from a task manager that you can't just use luna for? (throw cards away, etc?) Jul 25 19:13:03 (I'm not being defensive, serious question) Jul 25 19:13:16 No no, I didn't take that the wrong way... Jul 25 19:14:05 You don't need a task manager on WebOS... what is running is right there in a card... throw it away and it isn't running anymore Jul 25 19:14:12 Ummm, the main thing is that with Astrid, you'd be able to create a task/reminder, and I would be able to color code it by priority... Jul 25 19:14:20 oh, that kind of tasks Jul 25 19:14:23 OH...no no, yeah Jul 25 19:14:23 haha Jul 25 19:14:34 what device do you have? Jul 25 19:14:44 and set it to randomly remind you Jul 25 19:14:53 Pre+ Jul 25 19:15:01 oohhhhh hahaha Jul 25 19:15:16 i'm rather fond of tooldedo, so am making use of "done!" and rather enoying it. Jul 25 19:15:39 the TP version is a WIP, so i'm trying a few clients out, but was rather happy with 'done!' on my pre Jul 25 19:15:46 yep Jul 25 19:15:53 I was using my girl's Evo the other day...it's WEIRD not having cards... Jul 25 19:16:10 and there is also the calendar if you are looking for something built in... but done! is great for just a task list/manager Jul 25 19:16:21 Nice... Jul 25 19:28:24 AV8B or Uber?.... Jul 25 19:28:36 Or am I about to start a war in here? Jul 25 19:29:38 Good...I'm assuming that didn't go through... Jul 25 19:36:07 In android...OOOH Jul 25 19:36:14 Hi, I'm back. Jul 25 19:37:03 In android there was a way to "nandroid" everything to a SD card...that way if you did anything to screw up...it restored EVERYthing as it was before....anything like that with WebOS? Jul 25 20:31:39 is there a way to get the pre 2 testing kernels installed when i still have 2.0.1 on my phone? Jul 25 21:02:08 netflix would need to port their drm to webOS and a playback api would almost certainly not be open to third parties Jul 25 21:02:26 damn window management Jul 25 21:02:44 rwatkins, it isn't netflix DRM that is in play there Jul 25 21:02:52 it is silverlight DRM Jul 25 21:03:14 moonlight will do silverlight stuff in linux just fine... except for the DRM, which is a closely guarded microsoft secret Jul 25 21:03:56 cryptk: hm? netflix is on many non-silverlight platforms. Jul 25 21:04:22 cryptk: I assuem the DRM was ported to the playstation, they didnt port silverlight Jul 25 21:04:26 yep, but those DRM libraries are Jul 25 21:04:45 the DRM is a microsoft design... it isn't specific to silverlight, but silverlight uses it Jul 25 21:04:55 but the DRM libraries themselves are portable outside of silverlight Jul 25 21:05:01 yes .. so .. ? Jul 25 21:05:16 so we would need Microsoft to provide the DRM libraries... not netflix Jul 25 21:05:37 granted, pressure from netflix could make that happen Jul 25 21:05:41 cryptk: are you sure their DRM solution on all platforms is microsoft provided? I doubt it. Jul 25 21:06:11 the primary way that netflix secures their media is with the MS designed DRM libraries Jul 25 21:06:21 granted netflix could always have other ways, it's up to them Jul 25 21:06:25 cryptk: you think microsoft ported it to iOS? Jul 25 21:06:43 my guess would be .. no. Jul 25 21:06:48 it's possible, considering that the license for those DRM libraries comes with royalty fees Jul 25 21:07:01 the more netflix uses it, the more MS makes Jul 25 21:07:18 cryptk: I think company strategy here would trump the licensing fees. Jul 25 21:07:25 so, it is quite possible that MS did port them to iOS, in order to make more money Jul 25 21:07:37 rwatkins, look at the two options... Jul 25 21:07:46 one: they port the DRM libraries and make money off it Jul 25 21:07:59 two: they don't port the DRM licenses, netflix does it another way, they make no money Jul 25 21:08:05 and the other is theyh dont port and make the ios app massively delayed .. hm. Jul 25 21:08:09 which would you chose? Jul 25 21:08:39 cryptk: I've seen discussion they've used multiple drm solutions and they've migrated over the years. Jul 25 21:08:47 rwatkins, I highly doubt the videos are stored as silverlight files... they are likely stored as a regular video file on the server... then just streamed through silverlight Jul 25 21:09:17 rwatkins, that is true, but currently they are using the MS DRM for their website, and for some mobile uses Jul 25 21:09:32 do you remember the big problem with boxxee and losing netflix? Jul 25 21:09:36 you know the reason why? Jul 25 21:09:44 cryptk: correct. and playready is also used by Roxio anyway, so already on webOS. Jul 25 21:10:02 microsoft decided not to port the libraries for their DRM to linux... hence boxxee couldn't have netflix Jul 25 21:10:29 granted, all of this can, and likely will change Jul 25 21:10:42 as you stated, netflix has changed their DRM solution multiple times in the past Jul 25 21:10:56 my point essentially was that there must be a platform DRM solution already or Netflix must port one (or get a vendor to port it for them) to webOS. Jul 25 21:11:18 yep, but so far none of that has happened Jul 25 21:11:23 and until very recently the DRM solution on webOS was .. non-existant. Jul 25 21:11:32 yep Jul 25 21:11:50 but now there is some DRM capability in it, so netflix is more possible now than it was before Jul 25 21:12:01 i work for www.bitbop.com so somewhat tuned to these issues. Jul 25 21:12:15 but it is still up to netflix to provide their content in a way that works with that DRM solution Jul 25 21:12:42 rwatkins, you guys have a webOS app yet? Jul 25 21:12:46 no Jul 25 21:12:50 D Jul 25 21:12:58 in the works? Jul 25 21:13:01 DRM clearly being one of the issues. Jul 25 21:13:02 no Jul 25 21:13:29 go around to the DRM vendors, try and find one that ported to webOS. :) Jul 25 21:13:36 exactly Jul 25 21:13:37 much less heard of webOS. Jul 25 21:14:00 but I would think that if webos does get a good DRM solution, then netflix would likely jump on board Jul 25 21:14:29 cryptk: possibly .. HP ponies up the dev cost, or they actually think they can make some money on the platform. Jul 25 21:14:34 does that work in the tp's browser? Jul 25 21:14:51 PatrickC, what netflix? have you read any of what has been said? Jul 25 21:15:06 netflix uses playready... which is made by microsoft Jul 25 21:15:07 no.. rwatkins's company Jul 25 21:15:21 again, you didn't read Jul 25 21:15:22 rwatkins, you guys have a webOS app yet? Jul 25 21:15:22 no Jul 25 21:15:22 D Jul 25 21:15:22 in the works? Jul 25 21:15:22 DRM clearly being one of the issues. Jul 25 21:15:24 no Jul 25 21:15:27 dunno how many TouchPad users they are, but gotta be alot of them to pay whats likely atleast a few hundred k in dev cost. Jul 25 21:15:51 rwatkins, especially considering that you would need to include some kind of DRM in the dev costs Jul 25 21:16:11 yup. Jul 25 21:16:12 PatrickC: no. the US site is rim, android and wp7. the DE one android, iOS and PC/Mac via silverlight. Jul 25 21:16:16 if HP put a good DRM solution onto the TP... then all bets are off, netflix, hulu, etc etc etc Jul 25 21:16:33 rwatkins, why no iOS on the US site? Jul 25 21:16:47 cryptk: independing of the DRM costs its likely still a large chunk of cash to build it. Jul 25 21:16:52 cryptk: Apple are jerks. Jul 25 21:17:07 we have licenses to "mobile" not PC in the US. Jul 25 21:17:18 and apple requires you create an iPad app if you create an iPhone app. Jul 25 21:17:20 catch 22. Jul 25 21:17:37 the iPad isn't considered mobile? Jul 25 21:17:42 nope Jul 25 21:17:47 who decided that? Jul 25 21:17:51 the contract? Jul 25 21:18:01 I take my TP with me all over the place... it is clearly mobile Jul 25 21:18:15 "tablets" are generally considered 'not mobile' by the content companies. Jul 25 21:18:24 then content companies are stupid Jul 25 21:18:25 so is your laptop. its not mobile either. Jul 25 21:18:50 they dont want to piss off TimeWarner, Comcast and all the others .. so they are careful about what platforms their licenses are for. Jul 25 21:19:04 because the real money still comes from the cable companies. Jul 25 21:19:38 yep Jul 25 21:19:52 and they don't want to piss off the cable companies and have them stop playing their content Jul 25 21:19:55 they'll sell you a mobile license for $1 / sub, but they'll charge you 20x that for somethign that would compete with a TV. Jul 25 21:20:33 no, they dont want the cable company coming back adn saying "why do I pay you $20/sub when this other guy only pays you $1/sub?" Jul 25 21:21:19 and you try making money on the internet video streaming business on a $50/month subscription. Jul 25 21:21:33 netflix got some sweet deals but those days are numbered. Jul 25 21:21:34 haha Jul 25 21:32:57 so apparently netflix uses atleast Widevine and PlayReady Jul 25 21:32:59 http://www.quora.com/When-does-Netflix-use-WideVine-DRM-instead-of-Microsoft-PlayReady-DRM Jul 25 21:35:13 no incentive for them to upgrade. want you to buy a new phone and contract for new features. Jul 25 21:36:58 so there is some hope then Jul 25 22:46:50 Is there a way to add commands to Xecutah? Jul 25 22:47:38 Or Jul 25 22:47:51 AtomicPlayboy, xecutah source code is on the git server Jul 25 22:48:07 Is it possible to run a command in the ubuntu chroot without opening a terminal, or close the terminal without killing whatever session is open? Jul 25 23:44:48 Hi all Jul 25 23:44:54 New Veer owner here Jul 25 23:45:34 anyone knows if appcat will grow on this device, or will it take a really long time for new interesting apps to come ? Jul 25 23:45:59 happy with what I have now, but I like novelty :) Jul 25 23:46:57 tatsuyanakadai: will the stock market go up or down tomorrow? Jul 25 23:48:41 yup, you're right... Jul 25 23:48:58 just hoped for some hints in dev contry ^^ Jul 25 23:49:27 most of the people here are what you'd call "indie devs" Jul 25 23:49:55 or, since this isn't the channel I thought it was, most of the people here are what you'd call "hackers" Jul 25 23:50:32 yeah, but legitimate "hackers" ;) Jul 25 23:50:38 I see your point Jul 25 23:51:03 right, but the point is, not the people that'd have inside information on what big-name companies are bringing apps to webos :) Jul 25 23:51:51 not all good softs come from big-name brands Jul 25 23:52:35 Though I understand here is an underground hive Jul 25 23:53:15 so seems that most of devs here will bring apps to preware or such Jul 25 23:53:23 hive brings connotations of gross bugs and things, but you're right, not all apps come from brands Jul 25 23:53:24 not app cat Jul 25 23:53:40 "underground"? Jul 25 23:54:00 yeah, meaning it's not totally official ways Jul 25 23:54:12 HP has flown me to OSCON for a sponsored presentation on Preware homebrew. That's a funny definition of undergroun. Jul 25 23:54:20 not official, but not hidden in any way Jul 25 23:54:30 there's no offenses in my sayings, just words :) Jul 25 23:54:57 what's OSCON ? Jul 25 23:55:03 www.oscon.com Jul 25 23:55:23 HP is weird. this is a known fact. Jul 25 23:55:30 I think rwhitby's point is only that it's not as though webos-internals is doing things in secret, HP makes a point to embrace/allow what they do Jul 25 23:56:10 halfhalo-work: weird? Jul 25 23:56:24 yes weird, but has nice ideas as summatusmentis points out ;) Jul 25 23:56:31 they hired halfhalo as an intern, they must be weird Jul 25 23:56:37 working with third parties for the good of their customers is weird? Jul 25 23:56:41 Loudergood: that is true Jul 25 23:56:56 exactly. Jul 25 23:56:57 they also seem to think that they can update tablet hardware like they do PCs Jul 25 23:57:03 which is very interesting Jul 25 23:57:09 rwhitby: weird cuz they have strange behaviour when handling things... commercialy specificaly Jul 25 23:57:32 rwhitby: working with third parties for the good of their customers is weird when you're a US corporation ;) Jul 25 23:57:38 I like Oscon by their aim :) Jul 25 23:58:03 rwhitby: is OSCON sponsored by Microsoft this year, btw? Jul 25 23:58:16 rrix: they are one of the sponsors, yes. Jul 25 23:58:51 microsoft is kissing linux ass right now Jul 25 23:58:53 That always made me lol Jul 25 23:58:57 rwhitby: there's been a lot of stuff that I've seen around "statements of diversity"/codes of conduct at OSCON, did any of that factor into your decision? Jul 25 23:59:02 they're afraid of apple and google Jul 25 23:59:19 summatusmentis: my decision to do what? Jul 25 23:59:43 to give the talk Jul 25 23:59:46 sorry Jul 26 00:00:08 not sure what you're referring to, and what it has to do with my talk Jul 26 00:00:46 rwhitby: A bunch of people decided to go/not go because OSCON didn't have an anti-harassment policy or COC and all sorts of silliness like that. Jul 26 00:01:08 that, excpet I don't think it's silliness Jul 26 00:01:14 * rrix shrugs Jul 26 00:01:23 And this is why I don't talk about it :) Jul 26 00:01:34 it doens't have anything to do with your talk specifically, beyond that it's sort of a political statement Jul 26 00:01:38 I was just curious Jul 26 00:01:47 political statement? Jul 26 00:01:57 "political" Jul 26 00:02:26 I have a question about my Sprint Pre - upgraded to webOS 2.1 with F105 kernel. Boot process halts in the middle of the F105 logo at top and scrolling messages gets stuck Jul 26 00:02:28 the idea being that participating/not participating sends a message to the organizers Jul 26 00:02:36 * rwhitby wonders what codifying and publishing an obviously implicit harrassment policy at conferences has to do with open source webOS homebrew. Jul 26 00:03:49 I can still get to Novacom command prompt. Can I delete and replace the kernel? Jul 26 00:04:15 again, nothing directly, beyond attempting to say "open source needs to pay attention to this issues" Jul 26 00:04:35 rwhitby: then I take it this issue didn't factor in Jul 26 00:04:44 summatusmentis: what is the relevance of open source in this question (as opposed to any conference on any subject?) Jul 26 00:05:42 beyond that it's a group that has members that care about this question? nothing Jul 26 00:05:59 summatusmentis: I don't see the connection. I don't think that supporting a harrassment policy and presenting at an open source conference are concepts that have much of an intersect, let alone somehow being mutually exclusive. Jul 26 00:06:46 the idea is that participation (or not) suggests being amenable to decisions that organizers make Jul 26 00:07:04 rwhitby: The basic gist of it is that open source has assholes, like any large group of people, and that people think that anti-harassment policies will solve the asshole problem. So by not participating in events that don't have an anti-harassment policy, they can speak out against groups that don't care about fixing tha Jul 26 00:07:16 The basic gist of it is that open source has assholes, like any large group of people, and that people think that anti-harassment policies will solve the asshole problem. So by not participating in events that don't have an anti-harassment policy, they can speak out against groups that "don't care" about fixing the asshole problem Jul 26 00:07:25 stupid enter key Jul 26 00:08:07 rrix, summatusmentis: so the existence of a harrassment policy (which is a good thing to have) is more important to those people than the existence of the conference itself? Jul 26 00:08:18 rwhitby: Apparently :( Jul 26 00:08:56 as I understand it, the exitence of the conference is seen as "already solved" Jul 26 00:09:03 * rwhitby wasn't aware that harrassment at past oscon events was so severe that a boycott was justified Jul 26 00:09:18 I don't know that it's OSCON specifically Jul 26 00:09:39 summatusmentis: it's not. I don't think OSCON has ever had an asshole problem Jul 26 00:10:00 other events have, though, and have been dealt with on an individual basis Jul 26 00:10:43 looks to me like it's last-minute guerrilla tactics by someone who has an axe to grind, rather than an early rationale reasoned approach to future policy making. Jul 26 00:10:47 I don't remember hearing anything about OSCON Jul 26 00:10:54 in particular Jul 26 00:11:05 summatusmentis: probably because OSCON tickets are god damn expensive :) Jul 26 00:11:16 hah, they certainly are Jul 26 00:11:48 top post at the geekfeminism blog is about OSCON http://geekfeminism.org/2011/07/25/getting-ready-for-oscon-code-of-conduct-and-cultural-change/ Jul 26 00:11:55 webos doctor for german Veer's is out Jul 26 00:12:03 rwhitby: I don't know a lot about the time frames, I was purely just curious as to whether you'd considered it/factored it into your decision to participate Jul 26 00:12:19 do you think there will be an update of ubercalendar for german Veer's ??? Jul 26 00:12:45 and I don't mean to come off as pushy around the issue, I'm not terribly vested in the matter beyond "people should be decent to each other" Jul 26 00:13:05 seems that oscon has is covered: http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/07/sexual-harassment-at-technical.html Jul 26 00:13:13 summatusmentis: I don't think that "don't be an asshole" has to be codified or the lack of a code should justify a boycott, that's dumb. Jul 26 00:13:32 summatusmentis: people should be decent to each other everywhere, not just at conferences Jul 26 00:13:52 and if it comes down to it, the kind of assholing (sexual harassment) they want to prevent is a CRIME, and that no policy is going to prevent someone from committing a crime. Jul 26 00:14:35 rrix: "has to be" and "ought to be" are different, but unfortunately, there are enough people that are assholes that indicating that there's a code of conduct raises the issue Jul 26 00:14:40 whereas otherwise it's unspoken Jul 26 00:14:51 summatusmentis: assholes are everywhere Jul 26 00:14:55 rwhitby: I don't disagree, conferences are just a lot of people together in one palce Jul 26 00:14:57 it's not an open source problem, it's a societal problem. Jul 26 00:14:58 place* Jul 26 00:15:06 It's not a problem open source can solve Jul 26 00:15:21 It's not a problem open source SHOULD solve, I am tempted to say Jul 26 00:15:34 it's a problem any one group can attempt to solve Jul 26 00:15:40 within their group Jul 26 00:15:50 by being exclusionary? Jul 26 00:16:03 * rwhitby bbl Jul 26 00:16:12 how is a code of conduct exclusionary? Jul 26 00:16:34 save for "we don't want assholes" Jul 26 00:16:46 You exclude one group (assholes) so that another group can feel welcome, rather than solving the root problem of assholes. Jul 26 00:17:25 so instead OSS ought to just embrace everyone, which leads to other groups feeling excluded? Jul 26 00:18:13 it seems more reasonable to exclude assholes than it does to inherently exclude women/homosexuals/etc. Jul 26 00:18:25 We're not inherently excluding anyone Jul 26 00:19:43 arguably, by allowing "bad" people to participate, and not indicating that it's unacceptable behavior, a type of behavior that excludes certain groups is continued Jul 26 00:21:23 (for varying meanings of the word bad) Jul 26 00:23:15 How is being an asshole ever accepted? Jul 26 00:23:26 All I'm saying is that a societal problem cannot be legislated out of existence Jul 26 00:24:05 You can fight the drug war all you want, but people are still going to do drugs until we solve the problems that cause people to do drugs. Jul 26 00:24:12 Anyways, my battery is low, and I have to go now. Jul 26 00:25:17 rrix: I don't disagree that it's a societal problem, nor do I disagree that it's something that can purely be solved by cons, but they can certainly try and help Jul 26 00:25:49 and unless there's an explicit unacceptance, it's accepted Jul 26 00:26:23 I didn't mean to start anything drastic, I was just curious Jul 26 00:26:31 I think that encouraging the types of people who can help to solve those problems at conferences to NOT attend the very conferences they want to fix is … silly at best Jul 26 00:26:34 But I'm gone now. Jul 26 00:43:18 Is it possible to delte a kernel from the command line? Jul 26 00:43:31 Or to start Luna? Jul 26 00:43:42 what happened? Jul 26 00:44:18 g2g sorry Jul 26 00:44:27 My Sprint Pre - is updated to webOS 2.1, running F105 kernel, now stuck with F!05 icon at top Jul 26 00:44:57 i can novaterm to my Pre, though Jul 26 00:47:26 I say re-doctor it and start over Jul 26 00:47:39 What does one do after membooting a uImage? Jul 26 00:47:40 Unless you don't have access to a machine with a doctor Jul 26 00:47:49 Not sure Jul 26 00:48:31 I've doctored loads of times, but i wanted to try a second to last option Jul 26 00:48:36 you can always rm the kernel... but that might not be a Good Idea if you don't have anything else set up to boot from Jul 26 00:48:47 I redoctered back to WebOS 1.4.5, but now I can't get back in- profile issues, is there something like #*DEVMODE# for 1.4.5? Jul 26 00:49:23 what is the directory of the kernel? Jul 26 00:50:01 gQuigs: you could always set up a new profile Jul 26 00:50:36 I *think* it doesn't work because I don't have 3g data enabled Jul 26 00:50:40 but I can try that Jul 26 00:52:22 yea.. I get network errors... on 2.1 I used the DEVMODE to get in and use it as a phone but wanted to get back and try again, to recover my profile, ironically Jul 26 01:08:17