**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 19 02:59:57 2011 Aug 19 03:00:07 ill do a make clobber Aug 19 03:02:33 this is what happens when some dumb HP exec says clueless stuff on an earnings call: Aug 19 03:02:41 http://feedback.mog.com/forums/74175-mobile-application-suggestions/suggestions/925431-develop-mog-mobile-app-for-webos-platform Aug 19 03:02:44 ^^^ Aug 19 03:03:21 um Aug 19 03:03:40 you mean when dumb media people report wrong facts Aug 19 03:03:48 argh... i just did a fresh git clone and still get the error Aug 19 03:03:52 and fanboys and everyone else keeps spreading the misinfo? Aug 19 03:04:20 dwc-, +X or +x ? Aug 19 03:04:31 ? Aug 19 03:04:35 chmod Aug 19 03:04:42 chmod +X or chmod +x Aug 19 03:04:48 i forget Aug 19 03:04:55 x Aug 19 03:05:21 that didnt fix it.. rwhitby, any ideas? Aug 19 03:06:49 sorry, I meant "man chmod" Aug 19 03:06:57 I have some ideas Aug 19 03:07:03 ls -l scripts Aug 19 03:08:12 http://pastebin.com/5VxdHXtG Aug 19 03:08:50 dwc-: well the tech press mis-reported it, now mainstream press is mis-reporting it Aug 19 03:09:17 hm, nope, my guess is wrong Aug 19 03:09:26 drobbins: and so are the fanatical fanboys on irc, so.... Aug 19 03:09:31 dwc-: is there another way to express that bashism which will work for dash? Aug 19 03:09:46 dwc-, they have the correct permissions? Aug 19 03:09:54 write it as a sh'ism ... the original test should use = instead of == for string equals Aug 19 03:10:08 or, if you're sure you get bash, then [[ and == Aug 19 03:12:07 or, define SHELL=bash and it should just work, (even if the syntax isn't technically correct) Aug 19 03:12:17 or := or whatever it is Aug 19 03:13:18 changed to use = ; pushed Aug 19 03:13:54 rwhitby, ill try it now Aug 19 03:15:52 rwhitby, didnt get the error at the beginning, ill let u know what happens Aug 19 03:18:15 rwhitby, seems to have built without a problem. ill let u know tomorrow when my touchpad arrives if it worked fully Aug 19 03:19:29 g2g thanks dwc- and rwhitby! Aug 19 04:24:19 n Aug 19 04:24:45 hi Aug 19 06:30:21 *sigh* Aug 19 06:33:02 yup. Aug 19 11:30:40 hi guys - are you going to continue your work for the Pre3? Aug 19 11:55:01 *sigh* Aug 19 11:55:03 again. Aug 19 13:05:57 pointer please - running linux apps in webOS card via x-windows Aug 19 13:06:49 look for xecutah or ubuntu chroot in webosinternals page Aug 19 13:06:56 CWF: Xecutah? Aug 19 13:07:00 seem to have read about running Aug 19 13:07:12 right! Thanks Aug 19 13:51:00 hola Aug 19 13:51:46 anyone around? Aug 19 13:52:08 I'm sure plenty of folks are around Aug 19 13:52:51 right, I saw this. http://twitter.com/#!/webosinternals/status/104124665496223744 Aug 19 13:53:42 and thought I'd like to be a guinea pig. DHL just dropped by. Installed Preware.. then Impostah.. now.. activation says unknown SKU. Aug 19 13:57:31 Minority: did you tweet back? Aug 19 13:59:04 Minority, can you try to download a webos doctor? can you activate the device normally? Aug 19 13:59:27 no. Aug 19 13:59:32 2 sec, phone. Aug 19 14:02:58 webos doctor to do what? Aug 19 14:03:12 and i can't activate the device normally - if i were to do it i wouldn't get app access Aug 19 14:03:15 i live in denmark Aug 19 14:07:32 ahhh Aug 19 14:07:49 yep, yep. Aug 19 14:08:10 so, no solution for this yet? Aug 19 14:08:14 (that's why i'm here :)) Aug 19 14:08:14 Minority, please respond to rwhitby, he im sure will want to talk to you, can you be here in 8-9hrs? Aug 19 14:08:22 i'll be here. Aug 19 14:08:43 Minority, ask rwhitby about this, im sure it means pre3 has an odd SKU Aug 19 14:08:51 no, off to college with me Aug 19 14:08:57 s/no/now/ Aug 19 14:08:57 scoutcamper|away meant: now, off to college with me Aug 19 14:09:30 hehe, k. Aug 19 14:09:41 i'll do that Aug 19 14:10:20 http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/281075-global-paid-app-catalog-access-new-unlocked-gsm-pre-2-devices-using-impostah-6.html#post3074789 Aug 19 14:10:51 we are a few with the problem. Aug 19 14:35:49 dtzWill: It seems like Xterm scrolling works only to scroll down, in ubunut chroot I vnc'ed into my desktop and It has a scroll bar I was able to move it down but not back up. this might explain why for the terminal it seemed like it didnt scroll because the bar is always at the bottom. does this sound like an Xterm thing or an Xserver thing? Aug 19 15:12:36 Minority: Impostah 0.9.12 fixes that Aug 19 15:38:06 Just wanted to stop by and say thanks to everyone who works on the webos-internals projects. I gave up my Pre for an HTC EVO 3D a couple months ago, but I still just about cried when I read the recent HP catastrof$&^. I really hope WebOS gets a new life on some non-HP hardware. Aug 19 15:38:09 O hai! Aug 19 15:39:28 QKRTHNU thanks. Aug 19 15:39:42 QKRTHNU, sorry you felt you had to leave back then sir :( HP/Palm had a great hand of cards, but played them wrong. Aug 19 15:41:03 hmm, I'm reading through some comments... I wonder what a hybrid of Android and WebOS could be like Aug 19 15:41:37 widgets+cards would probably destroy battery life, though Aug 19 15:43:28 who says its over? my Pre3 arrives tomorrow :) Aug 19 15:44:13 noxis: where in the world are you? Aug 19 15:44:22 yeah, I am awaiting damage control from HP Aug 19 15:44:26 the next few weeks are going to determine what happens to my TouchPad and to my potential purchase of a Pre3 when it lands stateside. I just started a family, I can't really afford to invest in a dying platform and have to switch. Aug 19 15:44:39 flare576: eh, you can afford it.... Aug 19 15:44:40 :) Aug 19 15:44:45 flare576: the Pre 3 will never land in the US Aug 19 15:45:05 so the last HP WebOS phone in the US is the veer Aug 19 15:45:09 ? Aug 19 15:45:14 unless you import one from europe Aug 19 15:45:15 rwhitby, wow, what makes you say that? Aug 19 15:45:20 would be nice if hp would just completely open the platform when they abandon it Aug 19 15:45:28 flare576: did you miss the last 24 hours? Aug 19 15:45:34 rwhitby: importing one could be an option. Aug 19 15:45:45 drobbins: only if you're on the right bands Aug 19 15:45:54 nope, but they've already got devices made, and I've continued to see TouchPad comercials. Aug 19 15:46:00 * rwhitby has one coming from Finland Aug 19 15:46:16 I am a late convert to webos Aug 19 15:46:21 flare576: you don't announce you're dropping all devices and then release a new device Aug 19 15:46:23 so I guess I hopefully assumed that they'd stop making new devices, but continue shipping the ones they have laying around. Aug 19 15:46:31 2 weeks after I become a fan, HP poops on me Aug 19 15:46:41 rwhitby: its already been released! just very very softly... Aug 19 15:46:43 flare576: they haven't begun to sell Pre 3 in US. they won't start now. Aug 19 15:46:46 drobbins: London Aug 19 15:46:49 is where i am at Aug 19 15:46:51 noxis: only in the EU Aug 19 15:46:57 EU is the world Aug 19 15:46:59 rwhitby: I am hoping we will get some good licencees Aug 19 15:47:04 not my fault you in some new fangled world bit... Aug 19 15:47:13 noxis: indeed it is part of the world, just like AU where I am. Aug 19 15:47:18 noxis: but flare576 was asking about US Aug 19 15:47:20 ah criminals Aug 19 15:47:20 rwhitby, valid point. So, what's on the docket for webOS Internals? Aug 19 15:47:25 what about something like this: Aug 19 15:47:27 http://www.vintagemobilephones.com/MyImages/gecko.gif Aug 19 15:47:38 old school webos phone with external antenna and 30 days battery life Aug 19 15:47:41 noxis: and proud of it Aug 19 15:50:44 rwhitby, any thoughts about the possibility of a hardware partner? I'm not a CPU guy, but I'd have to imagine that it would necessitate re-inventing the OC portion of the kernals.... Aug 19 15:51:15 flare576: webOS runs on Linux. Any phone manufacturer could port it in a month. Aug 19 15:51:40 anyway of running it on x86? Aug 19 15:51:46 it already does Aug 19 15:51:50 easily? Aug 19 15:51:53 emulator'd Aug 19 15:51:59 i got a touchscreen laptop that would be fun to get webos running on Aug 19 15:52:11 ironically a HP laptop too Aug 19 15:52:12 the webOS SDK is webOS cross-compiled for x86 instead of arm Aug 19 15:52:20 noxis: that's been done Aug 19 15:52:58 including boot or inside a VM? or using some distro to boot strap it? Aug 19 15:55:17 noxis: as far as i know the emulated version that comes with the sdk is actually x86 Aug 19 15:56:10 * flare576 kind of wants a dual boot laptop running windows (for work) and webOS (for play).... Aug 19 15:56:15 PuffTheMagic: I'm going to go ahead with Funtoo support on TouchPad Aug 19 15:57:58 nice Aug 19 16:03:58 is novacom opensource? Aug 19 16:04:15 if my understanding is correct, partly Aug 19 16:04:24 but mostly not Aug 19 16:04:52 ok I was just on the opensource.palm.com and I saw novacom and dont ever remember seeing it there. Aug 19 16:05:16 I believe @webosinternals was tweeting about that the other day Aug 19 16:05:38 they opened up a part of it, but the guts are still closed. Aug 19 16:05:57 I am not a tweet follower, but that is good to know Aug 19 16:06:08 elpollodiablo1_: its not opensource Aug 19 16:06:19 they're just putting it there to make it easier for people to get to install homebrew/etc Aug 19 16:07:03 oilsworkn: ah so that is just the install stuff. makes more sense since there are OS specific versions. Aug 19 16:07:35 yeah, its just a binary, not hte source for it Aug 19 16:08:27 touchpad webos is also the first one that looks OKish on larger resolutions Aug 19 16:08:36 thank you for the clarification, oilsworkn! Aug 19 16:09:19 np Aug 19 16:09:27 javispedro, I absolutely love mine :) if webos-internals sticks around, I might just keep the device even if HP scraps the OS as well as the hardware ;) Aug 19 16:10:08 * oilsworkn isn't going anywhere Aug 19 16:10:11 I'm still planning on getting a TP Aug 19 16:10:33 the hardware is nifty. and no matter what HP does there's always this group to improve things :) Aug 19 16:11:23 so... oilsworkn, in your opinion, is there anything you think you could do with webOS as 100% open source that you can't do right now? Aug 19 16:11:40 my phone and touchpad work the same today as they did two days ago, with the same apps. so does the software and infrastructure provided by WebOS Internals. the only thing that has changed is the future, which we never depend on anyway. Aug 19 16:12:36 if it was opensource we could do a lot more im sure Aug 19 16:13:04 rwhitby, totally awesome outlook; I told my friend something similar "My Pre- hasn't seen an "official" software update for months, but still works great. Aug 19 16:13:42 Sorry to ask so bluntly but can I help testing Linphone? Aug 19 16:14:02 if anyone has any info on how someone can get a working Pre3 in the US, lemme know Aug 19 16:14:42 kshade: what device Aug 19 16:14:50 Pixi Plus Aug 19 16:14:52 drobbins: import from UK Aug 19 16:14:52 drobbins: you gotta order it from across the pond then maybe use it on one of the gsm carriers here Aug 19 16:15:03 probably tmo Aug 19 16:15:18 would you get 3g with tmo or att? Aug 19 16:15:32 drobbins: talk to Richard at http://www.pdatechcenter.nl/ - I just modified Impostah so he could pre-activate a dozen Pre 3's for his customers Aug 19 16:15:47 rwhitby: will it to 3G over here? Aug 19 16:15:48 I can never remember who uses what frequencies Aug 19 16:16:08 probably edge only Aug 19 16:16:15 btw Aug 19 16:16:19 drobbins: when your government uses reasonable frequencies, yes. Aug 19 16:16:23 but idk what frequencies its on or whats needed Aug 19 16:16:29 has anyone tried getting mupen64plus to work under webOS? Aug 19 16:16:46 asking because I believe it's an easy task and mupen64plus on the TP would probably be nice Aug 19 16:17:00 rwhitby: I think I'd want a 3g one. Otherwise I could grab a veer. Aug 19 16:19:50 rwhitby: are there even binaries for the pixi plus? Aug 19 16:20:33 nothing a make command wouldn't fix? Aug 19 16:21:07 drobbins: which 3G? real 3G or US frequencies? Aug 19 16:21:16 rwhitby: US frequencies Aug 19 16:21:36 I doubt that a US frequencies Pre 3 will ever be released. Aug 19 16:21:54 use UK on AT&T ? Aug 19 16:22:04 rwhitby: ok, I don't know much about the worldwide 3g frequencies thing. So they are way off from the Euro 3g eh? Aug 19 16:22:23 noxis: not with 850MHz towers Aug 19 16:22:33 arent all phones new tri/quadband? Aug 19 16:22:38 "all new phones" Aug 19 16:22:57 GSM, not 3G Aug 19 16:23:24 tri-band 3G means you choose between 850 or 900 Aug 19 16:23:24 Quad band GSM networks: 850/900/1800/1900MHz Aug 19 16:23:49 yep, they will all work at EDGE speeds Aug 19 16:23:50 i dont know much about this stuff Aug 19 16:24:09 is UMTS US ? Aug 19 16:24:15 UMTS = 3G Aug 19 16:24:20 UMTS is 3G Aug 19 16:24:21 Tri band 3G UMTS networks: 850/900/1900/2100MHz Aug 19 16:24:26 coz thats what is listed for the Pre3 Aug 19 16:24:28 or rather Aug 19 16:24:29 noxis: wrong Aug 19 16:24:32 3G on GMS Aug 19 16:24:37 CDMA is the other variant Aug 19 16:24:40 without SIM cards Aug 19 16:24:42 rwhitby: you sure? Aug 19 16:24:45 tri-band is either 850 or 900, not both Aug 19 16:24:52 noxis: same as pre 2 before it Aug 19 16:25:02 will it say anywhere when i recieve it? Aug 19 16:25:08 coz so many specs floating around are guess work Aug 19 16:25:08 noxis: why do you think they have P102UNA and P102UEU models? Aug 19 16:25:21 to make moar moneh! Aug 19 16:25:32 well its HP they didnt appear to want to make money... Aug 19 16:25:49 rwhitby, my US-Pre2 works perfectly here in Germany Aug 19 16:25:59 * scoutcamper mumbles something about being a VZW customer and not having a pre3 ever ... Aug 19 16:26:04 i read somewhere that devs started pulling their apps from the HP app store and HP have frozen it? Aug 19 16:26:05 phoque_uni: are you in the city? Aug 19 16:26:16 in a smaller city, but yes Aug 19 16:26:18 noxis: incorrect lie Aug 19 16:26:19 why does it matter? Aug 19 16:26:24 rwhitby: I thought it was Aug 19 16:26:27 phoque_uni: so you're hitting high freq instead of 900 Aug 19 16:26:38 prop 2100 Aug 19 16:26:39 prob Aug 19 16:26:49 scoutcamper: I dont know about US carriers but cant you just change to someone eles? Aug 19 16:27:03 go in the country where there are only 900MHz towers and you'll drop to EDGE speeds Aug 19 16:27:12 i could, yes, but i only get signal at my house with VZW, so not realistic Aug 19 16:27:22 rwhitby, sorry what? Aug 19 16:27:24 yeah of course Aug 19 16:27:33 UTMS is exclusively 2.1GHz Aug 19 16:27:41 no UMTS coverage, no UMTS speeds Aug 19 16:27:57 UMTS is not exclusively 2100 Aug 19 16:28:25 in areas of lower population, 900 is usually used, for larger reach Aug 19 16:28:33 (850 in the US) Aug 19 16:28:44 scoutcamper: Hard for us UK folk to think about being in a location WITHOUT a mobile signal from at least 2 - 3 providors :P Aug 19 16:29:17 yeah, US folks have these strange ideas about GSM which are based on crappy carriers rather than technology differences Aug 19 16:29:19 heh, i wish Aug 19 16:29:57 rwhitby, in Germany, they only use 2,1 GHz Aug 19 16:30:03 I get HSDPA from my office desk all the way home through out a 1hr 30min journey Aug 19 16:30:23 900 is GSM only Aug 19 16:30:53 phoque_uni: yes, Germany is one country that has no 900 Aug 19 16:31:44 phoque_uni: but read http://www.telecompaper.com/news/e-plus-plans-to-deploy-umts-via-900-mhz-frequencies-ceo for example Aug 19 16:32:28 rwhitby, that's a funny idea anyways. E-Plus has been using 1800, while everybody else has been 900 for years Aug 19 16:33:38 phoque_uni: anyway, other parts of EU and the rest of the world use 900 for rural UMTS Aug 19 16:34:23 and the GSM/UMTS transmitter knows only GSM on 850/900 and GSM+UMTS on 1900/2100? Aug 19 16:36:40 so is Preware etc all working on the Pre3? Aug 19 16:36:53 yes, same as any other webOS device Aug 19 16:36:57 dont see why it wouldnt Aug 19 16:36:58 nice Aug 19 16:37:11 may be some sizing problems that we'll need to fix Aug 19 16:37:16 what is the word about apps from previous gen Pres working despite the resolution change? Aug 19 16:37:19 but thats just cosmetic Aug 19 16:37:30 noxis: preware from the phone works on the touchpad Aug 19 16:37:40 and thats a larger res change Aug 19 16:37:43 thats coz you guys are awesome clearly Aug 19 16:38:13 :) Aug 19 16:45:22 phoque_uni, rwhitby, sorry for n00bing it up, but summary: importing a Pre3 into the USA will mean no 3G speeds due to frequency differences? Aug 19 16:45:26 rwhitby: it should not be terribly difficult to have WebOS ported to an existing armv7 phone, right? Not asking you to do it, just talking about the technical work involved. Aug 19 16:45:42 rwhitby: like having WebOS run on an existing US 3G phone, with proper support from HP Aug 19 16:45:51 rwhitby: that would allow a quick release of a WebOS phone. Aug 19 16:46:33 rwhitby: I imagine all that's needed are a few critical drivers for input, display (if needed to be rewritten) and communications. Aug 19 16:47:00 I've heard that 3.x is slightly more coupled to Qualcomm for some reason Aug 19 16:47:11 what is the pre3 running? Aug 19 16:47:15 well, the kernel is by qualcomm Aug 19 16:47:18 is 3.x touchpad only right now? Aug 19 16:47:19 in 3.x I mean Aug 19 16:47:27 javispedro: more lies by the execs Aug 19 16:47:30 linuxjacques: hah, so it surely has plenty of android stuff? Aug 19 16:47:43 javispedro: yes, it's based on qualcomm's android patches Aug 19 16:47:45 yeah, so basically there are lots of android phones that could host WebOS Aug 19 16:47:56 Pre 2 run on IT, the interface between userspace and kernel has not changed much from Pre 2 to Pre 3. Aug 19 16:47:57 javispedro: all the new webos stuff is MSM*, no more omap Aug 19 16:48:03 * javispedro ponders if it's time I release "that video" ;) Aug 19 16:48:09 s/IT/TI/ Aug 19 16:48:09 rwhitby meant: Pre 2 run on TI, the interface between userspace and kernel has not changed much from Pre 2 to Pre 3. Aug 19 16:48:13 but, TI also has recent android kernels Aug 19 16:48:15 javispedro: what "that video"? Aug 19 16:48:18 big difference is graphics drivers Aug 19 16:48:21 javispedro: hopefully not another hitler video :) Aug 19 16:48:31 * linuxjacques agrees with rwhitby Aug 19 16:48:45 SGX vs Adreno Aug 19 16:50:13 rwhitby: what is the big difference in gfx drivers? Aug 19 16:50:42 I think it would be good to get a samsung phone out quickly with WebOS on it Aug 19 16:50:51 in the US Aug 19 16:51:24 drobbins: they're binary Aug 19 16:52:38 rwhitby: if you/we/I can find a good host phone platform, you/we/I can start getting the proper resources involved and become the first WebOS licensee :) Aug 19 16:52:45 the SGX stack is at this point probably more standard Linux, wbased on DRI2 et all, Aug 19 16:53:05 while I bet the Adreno one is very much Android. Aug 19 16:54:28 rwhitby: is the touchpad the only 3.x device? Aug 19 16:54:33 Well, that's kind of a dick move: dude has an ebay auction "Palm Pre 2 - Black (Verizon)" First line of description "You are bidding on a used Palm Pre. THIS IS NOT THE PALM PRE 2" jerk. Aug 19 16:55:29 drobbins: yes Aug 19 16:57:42 so: identify host phone. get a few developer systems to an embedded developer, get them to set up WebOS on the phone. Aug 19 16:57:57 then: sell unlocked versions of this phone online.? Aug 19 16:58:10 all the FCC stuff is then already taken care of Aug 19 16:59:25 webOS on the Galaxy S II? Aug 19 17:02:32 would be awesome just for the screen ) Aug 19 17:02:34 :) Aug 19 17:02:37 why not Aug 19 17:02:54 I think among all of us, we have the knowledge or know people who know how to get it done. Aug 19 17:02:59 kernel/drivers/porting. Aug 19 17:03:16 just need a license from HP. Aug 19 17:04:01 and the source for luna and some daemons Aug 19 17:04:15 yep Aug 19 17:04:29 but technically it is not difficult because you don't need to design a completely new phone. Aug 19 17:05:24 what would you lose? touchstone I think would be all. Aug 19 17:06:04 drobbins: the video is webos1 mostly running on a N900: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbYX0-5fddM Aug 19 17:06:26 quite old, but maybe a good time to show it is possible. Aug 19 17:06:35 ah nice Aug 19 17:06:54 * rwhitby bbt - way past bedtime Aug 19 17:07:44 question... provided my palm profile isn't broken (i.e. "9.9.9") I should theoretically be able to purchase at least 1.4.5 apps from the app catalog on a pre plus with 2.1.0, correct? Aug 19 17:08:16 not since the server changes Aug 19 17:08:40 oh dang, they changed things? Aug 19 17:08:46 that explains it. Aug 19 17:09:07 I was wondering why free apps worked fine. I haven't been able to get any paid ones, though. Aug 19 17:09:54 darnit Aug 19 17:10:39 any preplus? even the official O2 ones are locked out of paid apps if they have 2.1? Aug 19 17:10:48 so, is there anything I can do on my end to force it to work, or is it entirely in HPalm's court? Aug 19 17:11:55 drat... I should have gotten a voice memo app when I could. that's the one thing I think I'd pay for right now Aug 19 17:12:19 ndrive! I need to save up for that while I can Aug 19 17:24:00 would anyone here buy an unlocked modern HTC phone that ran WebOS 3.x (dual-core 1.2GHz)? Aug 19 17:24:08 officially sanctioned by HP? Aug 19 17:25:40 * linuxjacques would. Aug 19 17:25:52 * fprimex would Aug 19 17:27:12 they need to whip the webkit team a bit harder but yes Aug 19 17:35:23 btw Aug 19 17:35:39 one of the projects I have is to make an SDL port that is very similar to Palm's SDL. Aug 19 17:36:07 In fact I've already reused code from Palm. Aug 19 17:36:25 my main target is the N900/N950 but it can be used elsewhere with X11 and OpenGL ES probably. Aug 19 17:37:02 javispedro: I recently learned that Palm's SDL patches are based on SDL 1.3 features Aug 19 17:37:11 only the Haptic stuff Aug 19 17:37:27 not the GLES stuff? Aug 19 17:37:30 nah Aug 19 17:37:46 and EGL integration? Aug 19 17:37:47 you can see they developed it because there's still remains of code from when the developer didn't understand SDL. Aug 19 17:37:54 like the SDL_OPENGLESBLIT stuff. Aug 19 17:38:55 The person who wrote the SDL1.3 GLES stuff was a OpenPandora guy and his code and Palm's don't resemble much Aug 19 17:39:12 I'm at work right now, but sometime I would really like to talk with you in depth about this :-) You have obviously learned quite a bit about it Aug 19 17:39:20 yeah :) Aug 19 17:39:35 I've also learned some misteries from the SGX drivers which I've always to learn. Aug 19 17:39:40 *wanted Aug 19 17:39:41 I was going by a post on the palm dev forums which said the above Aug 19 17:39:56 (by a palm employee) Aug 19 17:41:15 well you could also say that the multitouch stuff was inspired by SDL1.3 Aug 19 17:43:43 I wish I knew how to get a card using only EGL Aug 19 17:44:02 either way, I hope to establish I lively sharing flow of homebrew games :) Aug 19 17:44:10 *a lively Aug 19 17:45:07 it is one of the reasons I'm suggest someone give it a try to mupen64plus ( a n64 emulator), as I was able to port it to my SDL easily, so porting it to Palm's should also be a breeze (save Qualcomm/Adreno differences :S) Aug 19 17:45:10 javispedro: would be cool to set up a company managed by the community to port WebOS to HTC phones and sell them online. Aug 19 17:45:16 javispedro: are you involved with openpandora? Aug 19 17:45:39 even set it up as a not-for-profit Aug 19 17:45:49 all money goes back into R&D Aug 19 17:45:54 and salaries Aug 19 17:46:39 linuxjacques: you will not get a card with EGL only on the WebOS I looked at (pre3.0), but rather, you'll overwrite the screen ;) Aug 19 17:46:58 drobbins: good to hear about funtoo and TP Aug 19 17:46:59 nah, not involved with openpandora. Aug 19 17:47:41 PuffTheMagic: are there docs anywhere on setting up the gentoo chroot? Aug 19 17:49:04 drobbins: i just used curl to download the stage3 and then continued like any other gentoo install minus the grub part Aug 19 17:49:12 also of interest is that I already applied some changes to this SDL that might even interest Palm. Aug 19 17:49:22 PuffTheMagic: ok Aug 19 17:49:24 for example, I've removed the 10Hz tick from SDL_WaitEvent Aug 19 17:49:53 therefore battery life when you have many SDL apps in the background should go up Aug 19 17:51:47 PuffTheMagic: as for versions of packages, I guess I could get that from /var/db/pkg Aug 19 17:51:53 PuffTheMagic: any docs on cross-compiler set up? Aug 19 17:56:25 drobbins: for the cross compiler.... Aug 19 17:56:55 the setup doesnt matter unless you are building stuff that will get installed on the normal userland Aug 19 17:57:29 PuffTheMagic: but you have a specific toolchain your are using for armv7 right? Aug 19 17:57:33 gcc/glibc/etc? Aug 19 17:57:49 support for non-PC stuff is always a bit sketchier Aug 19 17:58:08 i have a specific toolchain when I do crosscompiling for stuff that I install on the main filesystem Aug 19 17:58:14 in my chroot I use latest Aug 19 17:58:21 ok Aug 19 17:58:30 in your chroot you use latest what? Aug 19 17:58:43 just latest arm unstable stuff? even for toolchain.... Aug 19 17:58:44 ok Aug 19 17:58:56 can I get the list of what you use for your cross-compile setup? Aug 19 17:59:00 then I can start working on that here. Aug 19 17:59:30 I want to end up with metro setting up the cross-compiler and building an armv7 stage3 with the packages you want in it. Aug 19 18:00:12 local seed stage3 -> xcompile stage3 -> armv7 stage3. Aug 19 18:01:58 bbiab. Aug 19 18:02:08 PuffTheMagic: if you have info, you can email me at drobbins@funtoo.org. Aug 19 18:18:07 if i have a non activated sprint comm board, am i able to put it into a pre plus and activate it? i assume no but wondering since my pre is broken and not activated Aug 19 18:53:17 hello Aug 19 18:53:22 hi everyone Aug 19 18:53:26 I need help Aug 19 18:54:30 I've pressed in pal profile that syaing that I'd lost my phone Aug 19 18:55:03 and now I cant to login to it Aug 19 18:55:21 so.. considering what's gone down.. I'm trying to think of ways to somewhat future-proof my TouchPad... has any work ever been done on spoofing the user agent string? I figure if we could access webapps written for iPad that could assure us access to iPad webapps that come later Aug 19 18:58:02 hello? Aug 19 18:58:14 I'm sure somebody's working on that as a patch, if it's not already there. Aug 19 18:58:27 hasnobrains: pal profile? Aug 19 18:58:42 palm profile Aug 19 18:59:58 you should probably talk to support about that Aug 19 19:00:36 but I'm actually not us citizen Aug 19 19:01:07 or any other authorized country Aug 19 19:29:33 zylogz80: right now it would be a binary patch I think but ultimately the webkit on the device is open source so we should be able to build a patched version from source code that can have a configurable user agent Aug 19 19:29:50 (assuming of course the HP code is complete / corresponding and will compile) Aug 19 19:30:44 destinal, thanks for the ping back. I thought of it when the kindle cloud reader launched. It blocks touchpad based on user agent string but I'd bet that touchpad would render it fine. Aug 19 19:30:45 destinal: hi! good to see you around :) Aug 19 19:32:42 dtzWill: yup. trying to make sense of the future direction of webos, but IMO there's no reason we / the community can't keep adding to webos even if HP chooses not to. I don't really want to go to android or iOS at this point... Aug 19 19:33:23 dtzWill: work situation and moving to vegas has kept me pretty busy but I'll be around more. nice work with the X stuff btw Aug 19 19:33:54 destinal: the only reason is that our hardware gets outdated quickly Aug 19 19:34:03 particularly those of us on sprint Aug 19 19:34:19 summatusmentis: so obviously we've got to find a newer hardware platform (maybe one designed for android) that we can run webos on :) Aug 19 19:34:46 that's an interesting concept Aug 19 19:35:03 meta-doctor to non-palm/HP devices Aug 19 19:35:25 destinal: good call, and ty :) Aug 19 19:36:09 hrm Aug 19 19:36:24 dtzWill: I think it's more important than ever that we make sure we can build all the OSS stuff from HP though, it occurred to me that I haven't tried to compile webkit for webos in a long time Aug 19 19:36:28 are there any devices out there that have relatively similar hardware? Aug 19 19:39:19 summatusmentis: yeah several actually Aug 19 19:39:56 destinal: which ones? Aug 19 19:40:19 in theory, if they're android devices, we could even get the required source for them Aug 19 19:40:31 destinal: agreed. not that i have the time for it, but i'd be rather interested in helping with that effort as i can Aug 19 19:40:33 would this be legal? Aug 19 19:40:53 well we still don't have luna--and i'm not sure if we can break it off at a level of abstraction that we could hack onto a new device without effort Aug 19 19:40:56 luna would be the only real issue wouldn't it? Aug 19 19:41:07 i mean after all webos only runs on the one processor or something, right? Aug 19 19:41:08 summatusmentis: we couldn't redistribute any binaries Aug 19 19:41:14 * dtzWill fail reference to whatever that news thing was yesterday Aug 19 19:41:19 lol Aug 19 19:41:27 destinal: but metadoc doesn't redistribute binaries either Aug 19 19:41:29 destinal: indeed, but we could patch the doctor as we wanted Aug 19 19:41:38 yeah, lke meta Aug 19 19:41:42 summatusmentis: yeah, same concept should work Aug 19 19:42:27 so all we're talking about is potentially a custom kernel, and meta-dcoc Aug 19 19:42:30 meta-doc* Aug 19 19:43:56 summatusmentis: well, some userland stuff too to talk to hardware, keyboard, touchscreen, bluetooth, a phone baseband, light and proximity sensors, all that could differ between different phones Aug 19 19:44:18 oh, I suppose that's true Aug 19 19:44:21 baseband (cell modem) is a big part of it obviously Aug 19 19:44:28 most of the userland stuff is OSS though right? Aug 19 19:44:43 or is it not "normal linux" in that way? Aug 19 19:45:44 nah, a lot of proprietary stuff --the architecture is such that we should be able to replace components and get it all working but it would be a fair bit of work Aug 19 19:46:19 ah :-/ Aug 19 19:47:27 probably best is to find a target device close to veer / pre3 where people have already rooted the device for android, since the qualcomm chipset and modem stuff should be the same. pre / pre2 has an unusual arrangement with the comm board Aug 19 19:48:00 yeah, that makes sense to me Aug 19 19:49:37 what sucks is that not a lot of vendors ship hardware with no crypto bootloader locks, that was one nice thing about HP / Palm Aug 19 19:51:00 HTC lets you unlock the bootloader Aug 19 19:51:31 though what happens to your warranty when you do is somewhat undefined Aug 19 19:52:01 I'm pretty sure putting a completely different OS on the device would void your warranty anyway Aug 19 19:52:36 IMO it shouldn't but that's just my idea of a sensible world Aug 19 19:53:25 well, from a company perspective, the don't have any idea what the new OS would do Aug 19 19:53:38 could be entirely the users fault if they burn out the chips, as an example Aug 19 19:54:07 looking forward to Ice Cream Sandwich source release. if the Touchpad already runs an Android kernel, it SHOULD be fairly easy to port Android. Aug 19 19:54:41 the TouchPad runs a linux kernel Aug 19 19:54:45 which is also what android runs Aug 19 19:54:50 it's not an android kernel Aug 19 19:55:03 the tp kernel is based on the qualcomm android kernel Aug 19 19:55:22 if you look through the source, you see android references everywhere Aug 19 19:55:32 hmm Aug 19 19:55:36 it's all just linux Aug 19 19:55:40 someone would have to sit down and make all the android patches…a big task Aug 19 19:55:43 heck, IIRC, if you look in /proc you can see a waitlock dir Aug 19 19:55:54 wakelock Aug 19 19:56:06 (I don't have my tp with me right now) Aug 19 19:56:47 i think i'll return my touchpad to amazon :/ Aug 19 19:56:52 while i still can Aug 19 20:00:29 i returned mine Aug 19 20:00:32 you'd be stupid to keep it Aug 19 20:00:47 except that it's a decent tablet, for what it is Aug 19 20:01:06 it is! Aug 19 20:01:34 it was when it had a future Aug 19 20:01:39 I disagree Aug 19 20:01:40 now its a portal web browser, and not a very good one Aug 19 20:01:41 it is now Aug 19 20:01:56 it just needs a good buyer that'll keep working on webOS Aug 19 20:01:59 there's not a lot of likelihood of it getting better, but I'm happy with my TP purchase Aug 19 20:02:01 return it, wait a month and buy it again for $150 Aug 19 20:02:10 nightburn has the right idea Aug 19 20:02:17 lol Aug 19 20:02:18 mine went back earlier today Aug 19 20:02:25 as much as I loved it, it's nothing without a future Aug 19 20:02:37 if webos was open source, it'd be another story Aug 19 20:02:54 I don't think so Aug 19 20:03:15 if webos was open source, it would still need a good buyer to maintain it Aug 19 20:03:18 I can't return mine Aug 19 20:04:12 crimsonredmk: not necessarily Aug 19 20:04:13 it all depends on who buys it…whoever does won't release android for it (htc or samsung) but they'll have another OS to maintain, or just take the IP from Aug 19 20:04:16 yea, it's the first adopters that are totally getting screwed here Aug 19 20:04:41 open source isn't going to help much, look at meego Aug 19 20:04:56 nokia dumped it, intel isn't helping much anymore, and look where it's at Aug 19 20:08:51 crimsonredmk: I didn't know intel was not helping meego anymore :-\ Aug 19 20:09:07 it's still kinda sorta maybe a little bit in there Aug 19 20:09:22 but they know android is the only way forward, which sucks Aug 19 20:09:34 linuxjacques: yeah, I know of some folks who worked at intel near that project and the gist was they were stepping away from it Aug 19 20:09:49 superficial effort only Aug 19 20:09:55 yeah Aug 19 20:09:58 ouch, what's intel moving toward? Aug 19 20:10:04 android Aug 19 20:10:17 sigh. Aug 19 20:10:18 how else can they compete with ARM Aug 19 20:10:24 they don't really need to move toward anything Aug 19 20:10:27 i really wish android wasnt crap Aug 19 20:10:33 just keep pumping out hardware Aug 19 20:10:49 i wish google grabbed android by the collar and started caring about the user experience Aug 19 20:11:09 they hired the webos UI designer, no? Aug 19 20:11:13 maybe something will come of that, who knows Aug 19 20:11:20 yeah, that was for honeycomb wasn't it? Aug 19 20:11:25 or did he come later Aug 19 20:11:29 that was quite a while ago Aug 19 20:11:30 can't remember Aug 19 20:11:31 dgarbs: probably promptly put him to work improving the administrator UI for adwords :PP Aug 19 20:11:39 lol Aug 19 20:11:40 heh Aug 19 20:11:54 i have a bunch of friends that *just* got hired over at HP specifically to their webOS division in May Aug 19 20:11:55 i love all things google, but android isn't one of them Aug 19 20:12:03 whoops Aug 19 20:12:12 i don't know what they were thinking with this launch Aug 19 20:12:47 they just quit too easily Aug 19 20:12:54 they needed to put more of those marketing dollars into getting devs to make apps Aug 19 20:13:07 do a little apple style supply restriction to create demand Aug 19 20:13:41 i went to costco and the touchpad was in a plexiglass box Aug 19 20:13:45 locked up playing the demo app Aug 19 20:13:57 the iconia was right next to it, out in the open and free to play with Aug 19 20:14:19 you'd never see that in an apple store Aug 19 20:15:24 oh well Aug 19 20:15:30 nothing we can do now Aug 19 20:40:37 lol all pre3 US orders have been cancelled?! Aug 19 20:40:38 lolol Aug 19 20:40:53 yup Aug 19 20:41:29 oh i thought they cancelled people buying pre3's from that EU carrier/site, or something Aug 19 20:41:31 errr UK Aug 19 20:41:33 * dtzWill blushes Aug 19 20:41:44 not that ATT support is cancelled--saw /that/ coming Aug 19 20:42:10 although i really was hoping for pre3 goodness on ATT, sigh. Aug 19 20:42:26 but with hp bailing, not sure i can bring myself to throw down for a pre3--to what end? will ANY apps run on it?! Aug 19 20:42:27 etc Aug 19 20:43:48 it was to be made to run both mojo and enyo apps. scale mojo up to fit perfectly Aug 19 20:45:11 ah, never poked at it (was mostly focused on the PDK stuff anyway) Aug 19 20:45:13 interesting. Aug 19 20:45:55 anyone wanna travel to china and find the stock piles of pre3s? :) Aug 19 21:25:36 ok, so we got an interview Aug 19 21:25:59 http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/19/the-engadget-interview-hps-stephen-dewitt-discusses-the-state/ Aug 19 21:30:57 "It doesn't mean -- in any way, shape or form, at all -- that we are abandoning webOS." exec-speak translation: "we are abandoning webOS" Aug 19 21:31:25 (same as politician-speak) Aug 19 21:32:30 anyone know the appid for the pptp vpn app by HP? Aug 19 21:33:22 aargh, acronym overload Aug 19 21:37:47 "Apple's success in the pad market -- remember it took a long time for Apple to get to the market." it did? Aug 19 21:39:21 maybe I am giving the HP execs too much credit. maybe they really do think that 12-18 months of lost momentum won't kill webos. Aug 19 21:52:27 So, anyone know if there's a way to control the dimensions of the xterm spawned by xecutah to keep the viewable area from going below the keyboard? Aug 19 21:54:21 elfurbe: make your keyboard smaller Aug 19 21:54:30 It won't minimize Aug 19 21:54:38 The hide-keyboard button doesn't do anything Aug 19 21:54:42 the xterm is sized for IIRC the small keyboard Aug 19 21:54:53 elfurbe: I mean change to the small keyboard Aug 19 21:55:01 Is there a smaller keyboard on the tpad? Aug 19 21:55:13 there are at least three heights Aug 19 21:55:37 I don't have my tp with me, but I believe you tap and hold on a button - maybe the minimize button Aug 19 21:56:20 Oh, yeap, it's sized for XS Aug 19 21:56:28 u press and hold the kb button Aug 19 21:56:44 Can it be resized though or is that just what it is Aug 19 21:57:08 yes Aug 19 21:57:11 that is how u resize it Aug 19 21:57:12 you could resize the xterm by editing the script that spawns it Aug 19 21:57:16 NO, the xterm window Aug 19 21:57:17 hold button that minimizing the kb Aug 19 21:57:22 Sorry, not capital no :D Aug 19 21:57:23 ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Aug 19 21:57:59 I like the bigger keyboard, and it gives me plenty of terminal real estate Aug 19 21:59:46 Oh, yeah, it's set to "maximize" Aug 19 22:11:09 If anyone is curious, 169x32 fits the medium keyboard Aug 19 22:16:29 elfurbe: good to know Aug 19 22:16:42 And 169x36 for small :D Aug 19 22:16:54 in theory could have different scripts for the different sizes Aug 19 22:17:11 Can I Aug 19 22:17:23 I didn't know how to add entries to the Xecutah list Aug 19 22:17:37 I don't know either off-hand, but it can be done Aug 19 22:18:07 Is there a way to add the full optware feed in a preware-approved manner? Aug 19 22:19:42 yes, you just use the cmdline client, ipkg-opt Aug 19 22:20:21 See, I don't have that Aug 19 22:20:28 I thought I should, but figured I must've misunderstood Aug 19 22:21:23 I don't remember the package name. don't have my tp here and my pre is dead right now Aug 19 22:21:32 Fair enough Aug 19 22:21:39 if you try to install openssh, it's one of the deps Aug 19 22:21:50 I've got openssh installed... Aug 19 22:21:57 hrm Aug 19 22:22:22 hmmm Aug 19 22:22:28 Yeah "optware advanced linux command line installer" Aug 19 22:22:35 that sounds right Aug 19 22:22:37 but in novaterm, ipkg-opt doesn't exist Aug 19 22:22:55 do you have /opt/bin in your path? Aug 19 22:22:56 Is there a path I need to add? Aug 19 22:22:59 heh Aug 19 22:23:05 or maybe /opt/sbin Aug 19 22:24:18 ah, there we go Aug 19 22:24:38 Sorry I'm noobin' out here, I've only had this thing for a week, it's my first webos device :D Aug 19 22:25:59 And in light of the news, I'm glad it was free! :D Aug 19 22:26:16 * linuxjacques paid full price on launch day. :-( Aug 19 22:32:24 Ouch, man. Well, I mean, it's not like it's suddenly any worse than it was before they decided to check out. And let's not kid ourselves, that had already checked out. Aug 19 22:34:03 I didn't buy it for what it is, but for what it was supposed to become. Aug 19 22:34:27 now there is practically no future of OS updates, bug fixes, nor new apps Aug 19 22:34:38 so to me, it is worse now Aug 19 22:35:57 i agree linuxjacques Aug 19 22:36:10 webos has been all about potential Aug 19 22:36:16 now what is left Aug 19 22:36:39 not much :-( Aug 19 22:37:14 I was really looking forward to webos overlay on PCs Aug 19 22:37:29 texting from my computer without google voice would have been nice Aug 20 00:12:28 nice $99 touchpad Aug 20 00:13:36 http://wtogami.blogspot.com/2011/08/hp-should-donate-webos-to-open-source.html#more Founder of the Fedora project Aug 20 00:13:54 rwong: Not nice for the folks who spent 400$ on them a few weeks ago (just long enough to not be able to return it) Aug 20 00:14:07 hi everyone. is there a port of Qt4 for webOS yet? i heard one was in the works, but no idea if it's still around. Aug 20 00:14:13 I seriously don't get how open sourcing it would help... why would it? So that a bunch of hackers can cobble together a breadboard of hardware to run it on?! Aug 20 00:14:29 KingRichardIV: There's one in preware, and I"m working on trying to update it Aug 20 00:14:53 @lingfish: yeah. if everything webOS was open source, i'd be down to keep adding new software. like LaTeX or OpenOffice and other linux tools Aug 20 00:17:03 @rrix: is it working well though for the version it's at? what are the expectations for the future? Aug 20 00:17:09 kirksutton : you may still see it on pcs Aug 20 00:17:10 KingRichardIV: lol, you serious?! LaTeX? Hah. Lets crawl before we walk people... facebook timezone issues, and disappearing alarms.. fix the basics. Aug 20 00:17:36 KingRichardIV: it was codedumped by darron black, i've never really been able to nicely get anything more than his demos working Aug 20 00:17:43 @lingfish: i'm not interested in that. i'm sure there's people interested in bugfixing. Aug 20 00:17:44 I just fail to see why any money-making org would want to _sell_ phones based on an OS OS. Aug 20 00:17:56 In my freetime I've been porting his plugin over to Qt lighthouse but it's slow and I dont have much time lately Aug 20 00:18:04 @lingfish you are welcome to work on what you want fixed, The King can work on whatever he wants to fix, welcome to open source development. :D Aug 20 00:18:11 lingfish: Maybe google knows Aug 20 00:18:19 ^^ Aug 20 00:18:22 KingRichardIV: well sure.. but you're 0.0001% ... and part of why this has all flopped (no offence)... hackers like us aren't the mass market. Aug 20 00:18:37 And hackers like us can't create the mass market for HP Aug 20 00:18:43 HP needed to create a market that cared Aug 20 00:18:45 They did not do that Aug 20 00:18:48 elfurbe: or... even less gets fixed, like a bazillion other OS projects that float, then die. Aug 20 00:18:48 hence Aug 20 00:19:06 they really should have given away a touchpad with every PC Aug 20 00:19:12 but shareholders really don't like long-term thinking Aug 20 00:19:32 especially not lately. it would have meant a loss in the PC/Palm divisions, but it would have brilliant to get a few million touchpads out there Aug 20 00:19:57 honestly i only got interested in webOS programming because it seemed natural from programming on the web, and now that a new 16GB touchpad is only $99... Aug 20 00:19:58 Nothing creates a market like freebies Aug 20 00:20:14 well, it's not meego, nor is it a pixelqi screen, but hot damn i'll take it. Aug 20 00:20:15 Where is this new 16G touchpad for $99? Aug 20 00:20:19 bestbuy.ca Aug 20 00:20:24 futureshop.ca, thesource.ca Aug 20 00:20:31 KingRichardIV: it not being meego is probably good ;) Aug 20 00:20:32 32GB for 149 at most places Aug 20 00:20:41 Rumour has it that it'll be 99$ everywhere soon Aug 20 00:20:42 @rrix: haha you suck Aug 20 00:20:44 I'm not in Canada... Aug 20 00:20:46 :D Aug 20 00:20:54 KingRichardIV: I want to love meego, i really do, but it's garbage :( Aug 20 00:21:03 I know a lot of its developesr and I still say that Aug 20 00:21:35 @rrix: i don't know. it's still brilliant. it's got the best development platform out there. Aug 20 00:21:48 Except it's a buggy disaster Aug 20 00:21:52 i really haven't seen anything that competes with Qt, in terms of being packed with features and being crossplatform. Aug 20 00:22:10 KingRichardIV: being a KDE developer I _TOTALLY_ agree with you, but meego just does things ... wrong. Aug 20 00:22:15 The quality of their UIs suck Aug 20 00:22:19 apparently though LG is interested in keeping MeeGo alive, so... Aug 20 00:22:47 the nice thing about MeeGo is that it currently uses plain old X11 though. you can just install KDE and roll with that, or something based on matchbox Aug 20 00:22:54 No consumer will buy Meego as long as its in its current Alpha quality, and I don't see it getting much better Aug 20 00:22:58 i don't think you can install X11 straight on webOS can you? Aug 20 00:23:07 Yes, you can, preware did that :) Aug 20 00:23:10 ^^ Aug 20 00:23:12 apparently everyone who played with the n9 loved it Aug 20 00:23:17 ooo is it native then? no chroot? Aug 20 00:23:23 And then n9 isn't actually meego ;) Aug 20 00:23:33 it's maemo6 with a meego compat layer on top Aug 20 00:23:37 For good reaossons Aug 20 00:23:45 wow, fail. reasons Aug 20 00:23:58 Lagtastic wifi tonight Aug 20 00:24:03 true, but it's essentially MeeGo based on debian Aug 20 00:24:20 like the UI is more or less the same, just tweaked slightly (which has to be redistributed anyway due to licensing) Aug 20 00:24:39 KingRichardIV: The Swipe UI on the n9 isn't opensauce Aug 20 00:25:30 note that what's not "opensauce" about swipe is Aug 20 00:25:46 theme artwork, the implementation of the algorithm that detects the gesture, Aug 20 00:25:53 and the associated GL animation. Aug 20 00:26:03 even the framework that is used to implement such detection and animation is open. Aug 20 00:26:11 I thought the entire UI was closed Aug 20 00:26:14 I stand corrected Aug 20 00:26:18 no, the UI is fairly open Aug 20 00:26:35 what's closed was the old telephony stack, and most of the cellular stuff that runs on the coprocessor Aug 20 00:26:39 obviously it looks like ass without artwork Aug 20 00:26:44 but ofono is open, and cellular stuff is never open Aug 20 00:26:49 but you can always clone artwork :p Aug 20 00:27:02 even the freerunner didn't have open cellular stuff until it was mysteriously leaked :P Aug 20 00:27:46 ah, forgot, also the n9 launcher is not opensauce, stock meego launcher you can see on videos. Aug 20 00:27:59 hmm Aug 20 00:28:01 Maybe that's what I was thinking of then? Aug 20 00:28:06 still, the stock meego stuff isn't that bad :/ Aug 20 00:28:39 If it's the handset UX in 1.1 then it kinda is :) Aug 20 00:28:51 but anyway, as an aside, could the touchpad then run X11? what about all the associated programs? (GTK, qt4, etc? how hard are they to port? I'm a compsci student as of two weeks so i'm down to port) its bootloader is open? Aug 20 00:29:10 KingRichardIV: Yes, see [[Application:Xecutah]] on webos-internals wiki Aug 20 00:29:30 You're running Xsdl inside of webOS, you're not booting or chrooting in to anything Aug 20 00:29:34 rrix: surprisingly the N9 UI is based on that handset UX. Aug 20 00:29:50 but you can set up a chroot to run nearly anything without having to recompile Aug 20 00:29:58 never heard of xsdl? Aug 20 00:30:02 javispedro: really now? Did they make it not consistently suck :) Aug 20 00:30:14 KingRichardIV: Xorg with an SDL buffer instead of directly using the framebuffer Aug 20 00:31:10 ahh... but how does that look metaphorically? so is xorg using a fake SDL driver instead of eg -intel driver? Aug 20 00:32:07 yeah, it's not fake, it's just what it is Aug 20 00:32:16 latencyyyyyy :( Aug 20 00:32:24 well, you know what i mean. i figured latency would be the killer. Aug 20 00:32:29 oh Aug 20 00:32:35 but is that latency while playing games or latency in every day stuff? Aug 20 00:32:37 it shouldn't Aug 20 00:32:47 KingRichardIV: Applications run inside of a card, and look and act like Xorg applications, that's about all there is to say :) Aug 20 00:33:14 Well, the entire X server runs inside a card and applications run on that card, right? Aug 20 00:33:21 or do applications on Xorg run natively essentially? Aug 20 00:33:29 It's not like you can spawn headless X11 windows that just pop up as cards like magic Aug 20 00:33:44 KingRichardIV: Yes. Aug 20 00:33:46 you can spawn separate X servers though (just a guess) Aug 20 00:34:02 That'd get pretty messy, wouldn't it? Aug 20 00:34:06 The entire X server runs inside a card and applications run on that card, like I said :) Aug 20 00:34:06 maybe Aug 20 00:34:07 what about an SSH client? Aug 20 00:34:25 xterm! Aug 20 00:34:26 :D Aug 20 00:34:26 KingRichardIV: Xterm, but there's no escape or control keys yet Aug 20 00:34:29 so it sucks Aug 20 00:34:33 What he said Aug 20 00:34:35 Don't expect Vim to work well :) Aug 20 00:34:52 hmm Aug 20 00:35:13 see i'd love to get my hands on a touchpad and (yeah haters gonna hate) rip everything out and put xorg + xfce/kde on it Aug 20 00:35:14 I'd imagine whomever is hacking on Xecuath will have solutions for that eventually (dtzwill was it?) Aug 20 00:35:20 but i don't think that would work too well :p Aug 20 00:35:23 The only thing missing from must-have-apps on my tpad is a useful ssh client Aug 20 00:35:33 KingRichardIV: I was planning on trying to get Meego with KDE Plasma Active on it eventually Aug 20 00:35:41 I even tried the telnet client in the app store to no avail Aug 20 00:35:50 Since there are already prebuilts of Active for Meego Aug 20 00:36:04 elfurbe: running pssh in Classic was my solution, lol... Aug 20 00:36:19 elfrube: i don't think it would be too hard to build in SSH. can't you leverage openSSH and an existing small terminal program? or something that was used on DSLinux/WiiLinux? Aug 20 00:36:30 There's no terminal emulator Aug 20 00:36:38 xterm Aug 20 00:36:38 KingRichardIV: busybox already has ssh, all the terminals just suck on the TP Aug 20 00:36:38 rrix: huh. is that possible then? the UI level stuff from MeeGo on Touchpad's linux core? Aug 20 00:36:41 I mean, taht's it Aug 20 00:36:52 oh, in that case, i guess it's just a question of finding a good terminal program then huh? Aug 20 00:37:02 KingRichardIV: Iunno, hadn;t considered it like that, i was just gonna rig up a doctor that would install meego directly :) Aug 20 00:37:05 or writing one? i thought webOS came with a terminal though? Aug 20 00:37:07 Building, I think you mean :D Aug 20 00:37:08 Meego is quite exigent with OpenGL Aug 20 00:37:30 rrix: haha what? never heard that before :p Aug 20 00:37:32 kernel recommendation for the tp? Aug 20 00:37:32 If you've got it attached to a computer, you can pull a shell with novaterm Aug 20 00:37:42 KingRichardIV: worth a shot, no? I can just doctor back :) Aug 20 00:37:46 if you don't have direct rendering or certain extensions like lock_surface you can pretty much say goodbye to performance Aug 20 00:38:02 but what do you mean by doctor lol? Aug 20 00:38:12 javispedro: true. Could ram the TP kernel on top of it if you needed to Aug 20 00:38:19 KingRichardIV: Doctor is the tool used to flash webos devices Aug 20 00:38:22 javispedro: well, there's always a more "standard" linux with another UI Aug 20 00:38:38 rrix: huh. did not know. like i said, never owned a palm device in my life. been following webOS for a long time but never dove in. Aug 20 00:38:50 * rrix nods Aug 20 00:38:54 I just recently dove in too Aug 20 00:38:58 rrix: which is why I'd query the GL driver on the TP first before considering Meego a real use case Aug 20 00:38:59 rrix: does the snapgdragon that touchpad use have meego support? Aug 20 00:39:16 @PatrickC: I'm using conservative with .5s sampling, 60% scale up threshold, 20% scale down, 25% freq step and bfq I/O scheduler. Aug 20 00:39:26 rrix: could we flash say ubuntu on it instead? i'm only thinking meego because debian has piss-poor ARM performance from what i hear, for backwards compatibility with ARM9/11 and back Aug 20 00:39:27 @PatrickC is that what you were asking for? Aug 20 00:39:36 javispedro: I'm not considering it a real use case, just a toy :) Aug 20 00:39:45 are there multiple kernels for the tp? Aug 20 00:39:52 sorry, chroot is installing ant check Aug 20 00:39:56 Oh, not that I'm aware of, just the Uber Aug 20 00:39:59 * javispedro would get a $99 touchpad and thus would try that Aug 20 00:40:01 There may be more Aug 20 00:40:05 KingRichardIV: I really don't know. I'm just playing with the idea, I haven't actually researched or anything yet Aug 20 00:40:08 I know of f15 Aug 20 00:40:12 But mind you, Ubuntu is also based on debian Aug 20 00:40:33 rrix: true, but it's been compiled with hardfloat and such Aug 20 00:40:38 Well then, I'll stop talking, I do not know of 15. Aug 20 00:40:53 javispedro: i'm a student though. i'm not sure if i want to siphon off $100 of potential books/tuition money for a touchpad Aug 20 00:42:38 especially when parents are nagging me to do driving school but i don't care to spend $600 on something i can't do for another 5 years... :p Aug 20 00:43:19 hey, $99 is around 40% of my current income :) Aug 20 00:44:06 http://www.box.net/shared/oixdmm2zod8d5049xaea Aug 20 00:44:09 what's this mean? Aug 20 00:44:17 hahaha i feel your pain, i am on again off again unemployed :p Aug 20 00:45:12 Hey Guys Aug 20 00:45:30 any guesses if/when the US is going to see the $99 touchpad? Aug 20 00:45:38 If so, I am going to get 5 Aug 20 00:45:38 lol Aug 20 00:45:51 BREAKING NEWS Aug 20 00:45:52 http://developer.palm.com/blog/2011/08/the-next-chapter-for-webos/ Aug 20 00:46:07 just read that Aug 20 00:47:10 the 20th the pricing should be in effect Aug 20 00:47:20 at the same time though, i'm wondering if i shouldn't just gift it to my mom instead or something. i don't even need a tablet. :p Aug 20 00:47:48 bpadalino: Are you saying that the $99 pricing is going to be in effect in the US? Aug 20 00:48:06 trsohmers: i believe that's what the reports are saying Aug 20 00:48:11 I CAN FINALLY USE TIDE!!! :D Aug 20 00:48:16 Going to be staying up tonight... Aug 20 00:48:18 Buying 5 lol Aug 20 00:48:19 BREAKING NEWS: "webos team tries to pick up the pieces from the community HP destroyed. News at 9" Aug 20 00:48:26 news at 11* Aug 20 00:48:27 :P Aug 20 00:48:37 yea yeah Aug 20 01:06:10 anyone get the WebOS Developer email from HP just now? Aug 20 01:06:13 http://pastie.org/2399561 Aug 20 01:06:24 yea.. trsohmers posted it :) Aug 20 01:06:32 Yea Aug 20 01:06:35 I just got it Aug 20 01:06:41 sorry, missed that you posted it before I did :) Aug 20 01:07:00 It's ok Aug 20 01:07:01 lol Aug 20 01:12:57 wife is a bit pissed about the price cut (and she's the one that wanted it on day one).. however when the price change hits the US.. I think I may pick up a 16gb Aug 20 01:13:22 whats the new price supposed to be? Aug 20 01:13:30 100$ for 16g Aug 20 01:13:31 99/150 Aug 20 01:13:34 16/32 Aug 20 01:13:40 100/150.. is rounding up Aug 20 01:13:43 if* Aug 20 01:13:51 oh thats not bad at all Aug 20 01:14:07 it's almost too cheap to pass up Aug 20 01:14:43 seriously Aug 20 01:15:12 i've been wanting a tablet for all the damn pdfs i have on my laptop Aug 20 01:15:17 hehe Aug 20 01:15:19 there you go :) Aug 20 01:15:53 and I'm not concerned with the OS Support side of things.. as I know at least the homebrew side isn't going anywhere anytime soon (might shrink slightly.. but I doubt anything major) Aug 20 01:17:13 The homebrew community has ostensibly grown since all of this happened :) Aug 20 01:17:22 Five mainstream apps open sourced, by my count Aug 20 01:17:30 really? niceee Aug 20 01:18:05 Not really, it kinda signals them abandoning it more than anything Aug 20 01:18:46 true.. but at least they are OSing it instead of just killing it off Aug 20 01:18:57 * rrix nods Aug 20 01:19:31 yea.. yesterday sucked for me.. failed a professional exam, then came home to find HP cutting the devices Aug 20 01:24:41 Back Aug 20 01:25:56 lovely.. and it seems my original pre's internal speaker now doesn't work (I Think it's the headset jack issue) Aug 20 01:26:17 anyone have any experience with the backlight of the pre not turning on/off properly? Aug 20 01:26:50 So, do you guys think it would be possible to port Android to the Touchpad? Aug 20 01:34:16 can the hp touchpad run android? Aug 20 01:34:36 can you write code? Aug 20 01:35:15 nope :( Aug 20 01:35:20 It can, someone has to make it happen though Aug 20 01:35:26 of course Aug 20 01:35:49 idk, there are always other tablets for android. i would much rather see the touchpad turn into a meego device. Aug 20 01:36:19 its just that they're going for 100 bucks now Aug 20 01:36:24 it's got a linux kernel running .. replacing luna shouldn't be super difficult? Aug 20 01:36:46 I'm going to try to port Gingerbread or Honeycomb Aug 20 01:36:55 I'm 99% positive I could get Gingerbread running on the Touchpad Aug 20 01:37:26 about 60% sure I could get Honeycomb… only problem is Honeycomb source code hasn't been released, but it has been ported to devices without Tegras by just using the rootfs and some kernel modifications Aug 20 01:38:27 yeah, i don't know. people seem to have mixed results running xorg on webOS. so far it seems confined to running within a card. Aug 20 01:38:37 wait...why the hell would you want to put android on the touchpad? Aug 20 01:39:00 i would much rather see someone either make an SSH client (or something similar so that X11 apps can be forwarded onto seperate cards) or see someone give an option to switch between xorg and luna Aug 20 01:39:04 KingRichardIV: I can't see a reason for that Aug 20 01:39:24 I mean one single Xorg card, you could probably launch as many instances as Xorg as you wanted. Aug 20 01:39:38 yeah, but aren't they all confined to one card? how do you window manage with that? Aug 20 01:40:09 if you run multiple Xorg instances you can selectively send applications to one of them Aug 20 01:41:03 yeah, but that's a little messy compared to just running xorg natively. i'll give you that though, because it preserves luna. Aug 20 01:41:11 still, i don't want to be tied to proprietary programs. Aug 20 01:41:28 what happens if you run a single xorg and fullscreen the card? Aug 20 01:41:56 shouldn't that be quite similar to "having closed Luna"? Aug 20 01:42:21 yeah, i guess. but can you run OpenGL programs like that? Aug 20 01:42:24 when fullscreened the Palm SDL virtually connects directly to /dev/fb0, so it's as raw as it gets Aug 20 01:42:27 and can you run a window manager within xorg? Aug 20 01:42:37 hmm Aug 20 01:42:44 a) no b) you are already running a wm Aug 20 01:42:55 probably one of the simpler ones Aug 20 01:43:02 again, point taken, but i really hate to be restricted like that. how do you manage applications within the xorg card then? Aug 20 01:43:19 doesn't it spawn all your stuff within that same one card? or is it smart enough to send each application to a different card, just under xorg? Aug 20 01:43:33 you're running a window manager, so, via the usual way that window manager does it Aug 20 01:43:46 :p Aug 20 01:43:47 if you were to run say metacity, you'd get gnome style titlebars and draggable windows. Aug 20 01:43:51 ahh Aug 20 01:44:01 all confined to the single Xorg card obviously. Aug 20 01:44:17 but now see that's what i was asking; so within a single card i can run my WM and all my native programs that have been ported then? Aug 20 01:44:28 you should Aug 20 01:44:45 note I not have a TP, but unless something's broken or missing from Xsdl, you should. Aug 20 01:44:49 how hard is it to port from eg debian to webOS? (or a distribution that has a similar kernel release) Aug 20 01:45:04 i figure it's the same software or very similar, isn't it? from Pre Plus to TP? Aug 20 01:45:27 also I am thinking that added direct GL rendering support to Xsdl isn't out of the question. Aug 20 01:45:31 *adding Aug 20 01:45:37 but rather hard. Aug 20 01:46:54 hmm Aug 20 01:47:10 see if you can port the libs, i figure getting a new GUI written for webOS's Luna wouldn't be hard Aug 20 01:47:12 GUYS Aug 20 01:47:14 7AM tomorrow Aug 20 01:47:15 HP.com Aug 20 01:47:29 If you have education discount, you can get the 32GB for $87 and 16gb for $63… if you use the SAVE15HP discount code as well Aug 20 01:47:36 trsohmers: considering the engadget activity it'll be already sold out by 7:01 Aug 20 01:47:42 probably Aug 20 01:47:46 help with ubuntu chroot Aug 20 01:47:47 http://www.box.net/shared/oixdmm2zod8d5049xaea Aug 20 01:47:49 but yeah, think it's possible? Aug 20 01:47:49 oh Aug 20 01:47:53 but that is a chroot :/ Aug 20 01:47:54 why would I get that error? Aug 20 01:48:08 what's wrong with a chroot Aug 20 01:48:12 KingRichardIV^^ Aug 20 01:48:50 oh sorry PatrickC, didn't notice that was a question... o.o;; Aug 20 01:49:01 javispedro: doesn't it require a host OS? Aug 20 01:49:03 lol Aug 20 01:49:39 the beauty of sense 3.0 Aug 20 01:49:58 KingRichardIV: which you already have.. Aug 20 01:50:36 javispedro: the goal is to clear off webOS :p Aug 20 01:51:00 ok. on the tp now Aug 20 01:51:19 troshmers: think that will apply to canada as well? Aug 20 01:52:01 trsohmers: link? Aug 20 01:52:21 I just bought it in the US for 92 :D Aug 20 01:53:22 LarrySteeze: LINK Aug 20 01:53:30 :) Aug 20 01:54:14 http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3220862 Aug 20 01:54:26 http://slickdeals.net/?&u2=http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/store_access.do?product_code=FB355UA%23ABA&template_type=product_detail&aoid=35252&jumpid=ex_r11614_us/en/HHO_r329/Affiliate/FY11/TouchPad Aug 20 01:55:05 that link shows $399.99 for me Aug 20 01:55:16 Flush cache Aug 20 01:55:20 and sign in as HP Academy Aug 20 01:55:25 need .edu email address Aug 20 01:55:49 Some are seeing it, some arent Aug 20 01:56:10 I don't have a edu address Aug 20 01:56:24 jacques: you have to be logged into your HP Academy account Aug 20 01:56:36 did you go to college (or are you currently enrolled)? Aug 20 01:56:41 so this is an edu deal, it's not intended for me Aug 20 01:56:54 I registered as an alumni, without my edu address Aug 20 01:57:01 oh really Aug 20 01:57:02 I'm wondering if when we go to Sams Club tomorrow, if they will have the reduced price Aug 20 01:57:05 Just confirmed… $99 if you call HP Aug 20 01:57:47 does seem the hp website did drop the price on the accesories a bit Aug 20 01:58:47 trsohmers: what was the code? Aug 20 01:58:48 interesting, homeschoolers are eligible Aug 20 01:59:14 SAVE15HP is the coupon code for $15 off Aug 20 01:59:15 how do you get to the edu site? Aug 20 01:59:16 save15hp is 15% off Aug 20 02:00:09 Phone number is 8889994747 Aug 20 02:01:37 can htc sense 3.0 be ported Aug 20 02:02:06 I'm going to be porting vanilla Gingerbread and maybe Honeycomb Aug 20 02:02:53 can you use sense roms Aug 20 02:03:30 with scribe lol Aug 20 02:03:34 until it's been done, assume you can't Aug 20 02:04:05 Indeed Aug 20 02:04:41 I'm looking deeper into touchpad spec sheets, and it looks like it may be hard to get the touchpad speakers working within Android Aug 20 02:04:56 anyone? https://www.box.net/shared/oixdmm2zod8d5049xaea Aug 20 02:05:36 possible htc beatz modemless kernel Aug 20 02:06:51 are you emu ubuntu? Aug 20 02:09:12 save30hp works Aug 20 02:09:43 CTLAdvance: it arrived :-) Aug 20 02:12:14 a billion dollars of unsold tp Aug 20 02:12:49 good riddance, i'm still calling tablets a fad. Aug 20 02:13:01 i'm just hoping someone will pick up the pieces and use them in a smart way Aug 20 02:13:57 where Aug 20 02:14:09 where is the best place to buy this 99 touchpads Aug 20 02:14:26 congrats on this Aug 20 02:14:55 surrey nanaimo Aug 20 02:16:38 bestbuy? Aug 20 02:19:33 CTLAdvance i'd check around a lot of places Aug 20 02:19:37 KingRichardIV: I kinda agree... I personally bought a convertable tablet PC , which was one of the best purcahses I made.. especially since I was still in school at the time Aug 20 02:19:49 HP told all their affiliates and sellers that the new price is $99 Aug 20 02:19:55 however the tablets that are out now.. don't suite me for note taking like that tablet +Onenote did Aug 20 02:19:59 so i wouldn't be suprised if amazon sold them for $99 too Aug 20 02:20:47 although it looks like you can get it cheaper through HP's site with some coupon codes Aug 20 02:20:53 amazon is still 398 Aug 20 02:20:59 but they were 399 earlier today Aug 20 02:21:34 so what is the best way to buy one now Aug 20 02:21:38 HP.com with a coupon Aug 20 02:21:41 or call them direct Aug 20 02:22:57 this exactly moment seems to be to call them Aug 20 02:23:10 if you can wait till the morning, it seems thats when the pricing goes into effect (well morning EST) Aug 20 02:33:12 Hi Guys.. anybody know if you can upgrade webOs to Andriod ? Aug 20 02:33:48 nope, not at the moment or in the forseeable future Aug 20 02:33:53 upgrade... Aug 20 02:33:58 Sederox: what annoys me is that they're not open at all. can't add or remove programs that i want. Aug 20 02:34:37 Sederox: as much as i hate windows, microsoft left in the provisions that you can upgrade. same thing with apple. so if i stop using MS Office my life won't end. but try living without those two mobile office suites, one of which only works on iOS v4+ Aug 20 02:34:43 android honeycomb is closed source and the android kernel is much different than a touchpad's kernel, both things pose problems Aug 20 02:35:15 i think you could port dalvik to webOS, but even dalvik to ubuntu is having trouble so i would doubt you'd see it any time soon Aug 20 02:35:33 Any alternative other than andriod ? I can get one tomorrow for 99$ :) Aug 20 02:36:33 CyBeRaT: just run webOS on it. it's not going anywhere any time soon. ifwhen webOS dies, there will likely be a meego/ubuntu/otherlinux replacement Aug 20 02:36:53 or you'll see a stable xorg in preware and you'll just have to run meego applications on the side sort of thing, which is imjo fine by me Aug 20 02:37:21 KingRichardIV: as you know did you know if some "portable" exist at this moment ? Aug 20 02:38:09 KingRichardIV: davlik is encumbered by patent litigation Aug 20 02:38:20 s/davlik/dalvik/ Aug 20 02:38:20 rwhitby meant: KingRichardIV: dalvik is encumbered by patent litigation Aug 20 02:38:25 CyBeRaT: what do you mean by that? as far as i know, there's no alternative OS to webOS at the moment for the touchpad. this is one of my gripes with ARM. Aug 20 02:38:46 rwhitby: do you mean the oracle lawsuits, or do you mean there's no source & trail for dalvik to port it? Aug 20 02:38:51 KingRichardIV: Thank's fot the info.. Aug 20 02:39:07 KingRichardIV: lawsuits. why would you put yourself in the line of those. Aug 20 02:39:36 CyBeRaT: you can always run xorg on the touchpad, which means you'd be able to access ported linux programs. i wouldn't worry too much about getting say firefox or openoffice on there one day, it just won't really act right :/ Aug 20 02:39:57 rwhitby: i'm pretty sure canadian courts have rejected software patents. don't know if steven hurpdurp will change that. Aug 20 02:40:49 KingRichardIV: so a get one tomorow morning 1:) Aug 20 02:41:51 CyBerRaT: I'm planning on getting another (we got a 32 on launch day) at that price.. really no reason not to Aug 20 02:41:55 KingRichardIV: you can connect with the WebOs a X session ? Aug 20 02:41:58 Ubuntu and an XServer already run on the TouchPad, in a webOS card. Aug 20 02:42:11 CyBerRat: yep, if you'd want. I was thinking about getting one for my mom. I hear that x11 runs well in webOS, not sure how well. Aug 20 02:42:36 rwhitby: a full version of Ubuntu ? Aug 20 02:43:09 CyBerRaT: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/UbuntuChroot - try it for yourself, it's in Preware. Aug 20 02:43:13 it's chrooted. it's a full version of ubuntu running with some limitations iirc. Aug 20 02:43:36 KingRichardIV: the dbus issues have been solved, just not packaged and released. Aug 20 02:43:41 too cool rwhitby ... Aug 20 02:43:42 rwhitby: my dealbreaker. does webOS have a "/home", and can ubuntu chrooted use it? Aug 20 02:44:00 KingRichardIV: you can bind mount whatever you want into the chroot Aug 20 02:44:02 i'm a linux user since 15 years :) Aug 20 02:44:31 With one is better 16 or 32 gigs version Aug 20 02:44:42 64 Aug 20 02:45:16 they are all the same, except for storage space.. so it's up to your needs which one fits better Aug 20 02:45:19 too big... Aug 20 02:45:23 'cept for the 64 Aug 20 02:45:43 whay 64 gigs version ? Aug 20 02:45:48 yea Aug 20 02:45:50 they're all physically the same size though. so just pick what level of GB you want without "overpaying" Aug 20 02:45:54 was released a few days ago Aug 20 02:46:00 wait, is the 64GB one physically bigger? Aug 20 02:46:05 and is there even an SD card slot? o.o Aug 20 02:46:10 just wait another few days if you don't want to overpay Aug 20 02:46:18 KingRichardIV: no and no Aug 20 02:46:26 well, i meant if you think $50 for 32GB is too rich for your blood... Aug 20 02:46:36 ;) Aug 20 02:47:01 where can you get a 32GB for $50? Aug 20 02:47:10 it's $50 more then the 16 Aug 20 02:47:53 jacques: sorry, i meant an additional 32GB for $50 Aug 20 02:47:59 then you're paying $50 for an extra 16GB Aug 20 02:48:10 unless 64GB is $50 more than 32GB ? Aug 20 02:48:27 dunno.. if the 64 is only $200.. thats really tempting Aug 20 02:48:34 but haven't seen anything on that yet Aug 20 02:48:38 sorry brainfart there. Aug 20 02:48:46 me either, I was just hoping it would be Aug 20 02:48:49 i thought 32 - 16 = 64 for some reason Aug 20 02:48:56 *32 - 16 = 32 Aug 20 02:49:10 I think we'll see tomorrow Aug 20 02:49:49 you think amazon will do anything to match the price for people who have already bought it? Aug 20 02:49:56 if i threaten them with a refund? Aug 20 02:50:16 i mean i bought it on monday dammit Aug 20 02:50:16 lol Aug 20 02:51:14 I'm still wondering about Bestbuy.. as it seems the 60 day thing is for TVs Aug 20 02:52:11 amazon says the same…only for TVs Aug 20 02:54:29 hmm, it might not work :/ Aug 20 02:54:41 but then again if amazon does lower its prices, as i expect it to, it might just honour it Aug 20 02:54:59 KingRichardIV: jaycanuck just retweeted someone who said amazon's firesale was live Aug 20 02:55:06 sweet. Aug 20 02:55:17 they should honour it then. otherwise they're shooting themselves in the foot. Aug 20 02:58:41 Anyone use Navit much? I'm on Sprint and would go Pre2 but I use Sprint Nav all the time. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 20 02:59:56 2011