**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 25 02:59:57 2011 Sep 25 03:02:34 PatrickC: already heave ;) Sep 25 03:02:44 awesome :) Sep 25 03:02:54 run ubuntu/debian on it? Sep 25 03:03:31 rwhitby: preware coming out for the Pre 3 with substantial patches ? Sep 25 03:03:52 benklop: you could have just novaterm'd in, hit return to get a bootie prompt, then typed "reset". Sep 25 03:04:06 bhuey: already is Sep 25 03:04:28 rwhitby: does "reset" and "tellbootie" both work the same? Sep 25 03:04:40 * PatrickC isn't near a computer right now Sep 25 03:04:49 ok Sep 25 03:04:57 PatrickC: considering one is a bootie command, and one is a Linux command, no. Sep 25 03:05:15 ok.. well, they both restart the device Sep 25 03:05:25 so I didn't know how much difference there was, if any Sep 25 03:05:52 PatrickC: debian, couldn't think of a reason for ubuntu :-P Sep 25 03:06:01 lol Sep 25 03:06:23 * PatrickC is off to bed Sep 25 03:06:25 night all Sep 25 03:06:34 night! Sep 25 03:28:44 during trying to build the cross-compile toolchain im getting the message "cc1: warning: include location "/usr/include" is unsafe for cross-compilation", and libsdl fails to build with "./src/audio/dma/SDL_dmaaudio.c:166: error: impossible constraint in 'asm'" - what am I doing wrong? Sep 25 03:31:40 i don't think i've got an environment variables referencing /usr/include, so i have no idea why that is getting in there Sep 25 03:34:52 benklop, what package is being built? Sep 25 03:38:58 libsdl Sep 25 03:39:20 i'm trying a make clean now Sep 25 03:39:50 i'm trying "make toolchain" Sep 25 03:40:22 im running it right now, but it sounds like the makefile needs editing Sep 25 03:40:39 yeah.. Sep 25 03:40:49 fails the same after a make clean Sep 25 03:42:55 i dont see it anywhere in the root makefile Sep 25 03:43:25 http://ompldr.org/vYWlteg/wterm_2011-24-09_234048.png Sep 25 03:46:33 what is the ar6000 module for? Sep 25 03:46:47 wifi Sep 25 03:48:17 wha.... wterm? me want!! ;) Sep 25 03:48:19 What's the best way to directly edit emulator system files on my pc? Sep 25 03:49:34 NuttyBunny, :D Sep 25 03:50:24 compat-wireless-old? what are you planning?? wardriving? :P Sep 25 03:50:25 me too Sep 25 03:50:40 :-P Sep 25 03:54:59 Only if monitor mode worked on the tp Sep 25 03:56:17 i was trying to decide for a moment if usb-host support was being used to hook some ethernet adapter up, and then was wondering why Sep 25 03:58:28 the SDL makefile here includes /usr/include... am I supposed to be building this inside a chroot or something? Sep 25 03:59:09 benklop: widk uses scratchbox2 Sep 25 04:00:21 so are the instructions at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Building_Apps_and_Kernels incorrect? Sep 25 04:02:45 that describes both the autobuilder setup (which is a straight cross-compile) and the widk (which uses sb2) Sep 25 04:09:13 ah. well if both will get me to a similar goal, i'll just use sb2 Sep 25 04:12:23 occassionally I get what may be leaking escape code chars on the screen using Xterm via Xecutah using ssh to a linux machine and attaching to a screen session running irssi in it. Sep 25 04:12:28 is this a known issue? Sep 25 04:12:51 is it something I can chang locally Sep 25 04:32:56 hi Sep 25 04:57:13 Hello Sep 25 04:58:12 is the widk for the touchpad? or is there any real difference in versions used Sep 25 04:58:45 it works to build stuff for the touchpad. Sep 25 05:00:33 I've been having trouble getting OpenSSH to connect. I keep getting a "Connection Refused" error. If anyone could help me with this, it wouldbe greatly appreciated. Thanks! Sep 25 05:00:51 connect how? from the touchpad to another machine? Sep 25 05:01:02 check and see if the sshd is running Sep 25 05:01:07 connection refused generally means there either is A: nothing listening on the other side, or B: a firewall in the way. Sep 25 05:01:44 It is. I was suspecting a firewall. Sep 25 05:02:44 SSH worked in the past but stopped after I installed the last WebOS update on my Verizon Pre Plus. Sep 25 05:03:09 which direction are you going? to the pre or from the pre somewhere else? Sep 25 05:03:23 Putty on Windows to Pre. Sep 25 05:03:37 localhost from xterm on the same pre won't work either though Sep 25 05:03:56 ok, 1 of 2 things then.. either 1: sshd isn't actually running anymore... or 2: VZ added some kind of fw/ipchains block in their update... Sep 25 05:04:45 try restarting sshd and look in the logs (/var/log/messages probably I think) and see if it's complaining at all. or if it's even really starting. Sep 25 05:05:17 one thing i really wish we had in webos was netstat. ... that woudl make life easier for looing at this stuff. hah Sep 25 05:05:39 start mobi.optware.openssh says "pre-start process terminated with status 127" Sep 25 05:05:57 ah, so it' not starting. hmm. Sep 25 05:05:58 christr, its available in Optware. Sep 25 05:06:12 really? thought i looked there and didn't see it... hmm. i'll look again. Sep 25 05:06:25 Yeah I installed via preware Sep 25 05:07:29 I edited the upstart script according to the "Troubleshooting -> Unable to Connect" scetion on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:OpenSSH . Sep 25 05:07:45 I'm going to reinstall incase I broke that upstart script Sep 25 05:08:54 OK, sshd is starting now. That one was my bad. Now let me see if I can ssh from outside. Sep 25 05:09:39 Tom: thanks! installed the net-tools package and got it. sweet. :) Sep 25 05:18:17 OK It is now working after the reinstall. I'm not really sure what caused all that. Sep 25 05:19:45 Thank you for your help! Sep 25 06:34:28 man... using Xorg and a debian chroot to connect an rdp session to a windows box with virtual keyboard to run a console session of a remote debian virtual machine install is downright near impossible Sep 25 06:36:36 the lack of keyboard mappings is the first obstacle, the lack of right click is the second, and the lack of an alt key makes it impossible to unfocus the vm so you can use the keyboard. not that the keyboard would help then, because the vm is unfocused. Sep 25 06:37:56 not that most of this is webos's fault, mostly just the whole form factor isn't really good for doing wonky things Sep 25 06:37:59 benklop: can you get a low latency vnc going? Sep 25 06:38:06 like tigervnc? Sep 25 06:38:26 direct to the VM during the install? Sep 25 06:38:39 maybe, that might work better Sep 25 06:42:09 guess I'll have to check and see if ESXi 4.1 still supports direct connections to VM consoles using VNC - looks like ESX 3.x did 3 years ago, albeit using undocumented options to do so Sep 25 06:42:27 still, sounds like fun :D Sep 25 06:43:14 not that that's off-topic in a webOS chat room of course :-P Sep 25 06:43:22 lol Sep 25 06:44:52 so there's a webOS vnc client then? Sep 25 06:45:39 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/VNC_(Virtual_Network_Computing) Sep 25 06:47:24 neither of those seem to come up in the touchpad catalog Sep 25 06:47:27 :/ Sep 25 06:49:48 can't check preware right now either as my firewall seems to hate something about it. oh well something for work tomorrow... Sep 25 08:33:09 morning Sep 25 08:45:33 LunohoD: got your email, will look at tomorrow (and assuming all is well, push to some feed :D) Sep 25 08:46:01 (thanks!! :) Sep 25 08:46:02 ) Sep 25 08:46:44 the xsdl/xkeyboard patches are exactly what they should be, just am about to run (it being almost 4am here and all) so will play with replacing the qmap later :) Sep 25 08:46:54 anyone know anything abot the jailer? Sep 25 08:47:13 about* Sep 25 08:55:40 yep Sep 25 08:56:17 i've develoepd a enyo hybrid app Sep 25 08:56:47 but i need root access in the pdk part, apart from creating /etc/nojail i dont know how to go about getting this? Sep 25 08:56:49 any ideas? Sep 25 08:57:12 can't be done with a hybrid. Sep 25 08:57:22 ok, how can it be done? Sep 25 08:57:46 only way I know how to do it is with a C service or node.js service, homebrew only (won't get into app catalog) Sep 25 08:57:59 this is homebrew Sep 25 08:58:21 have you looked at the Hello! repo? Sep 25 08:58:31 no Sep 25 08:58:56 i've done everything frmo palm doc's/example's so far Sep 25 08:59:02 only came here when i couldn't get it working Sep 25 08:59:13 yeah, no chance of any of their stuff getting you root access Sep 25 08:59:23 where's your public source repo? Sep 25 08:59:23 :( Sep 25 08:59:33 D:\ Sep 25 08:59:36 ;) Sep 25 08:59:53 not public yet Sep 25 09:00:11 can js interact with service? Sep 25 09:00:13 well, fix that minor item and we'll be able to take a look and give advice Sep 25 09:00:32 or would it be js -> hybrid -> service Sep 25 09:08:28 Hi folks. rwhitby, thank you for the multicard hints earlier in the TigerVNC thread. Based on that, I've made a script that scans for xecutah-enabled apps and rebuilds main-assistant.js - would you like a copy? Sep 25 09:08:46 Soruk: hi Sep 25 09:09:06 Soruk: that kind of defeats the whitelist aspect doesn't it? Sep 25 09:09:22 any rogue app can then install an xecutah script and own your system Sep 25 09:10:19 True, but any rogue app that knows what to change can do that anyway. Sep 25 09:10:32 * ka6sox wrestled with this and finally came to the conclusion he would have to update xecutah everytime he added a new XApp. Sep 25 09:11:39 which isn't a bad thing Sep 25 09:11:47 ka6sox, whats happening with xapps Sep 25 09:12:06 it also means we then have a list of people to coordinate with if the xecutah service has to change for some reason Sep 25 09:12:07 ka6sox, I really want to play with a window manager in chroot. will that hinder abilities for xapps Sep 25 09:12:28 as soon as I get concurrence that I'm not going to blow up the world I'll put the first one in Alpha. Sep 25 09:12:45 then as I get more known good ones I can add them. Sep 25 09:12:51 after they get tested. Sep 25 09:13:34 Another thing, while people are awake here, middle of last week I put in an application to upgrade my forum account to a developer one so I can post in the right place to get TigerVNC uploaded to preware, but I've heard nothing back. Sep 25 09:13:49 Soruk: that's PreCentral, not us. Sep 25 09:14:07 so I could add TigerVNC if I got confirmation that it worked and played nice on the TP. Sep 25 09:14:48 ka6sox, via window manager i installed quick synergy client and it worked pefrect Sep 25 09:15:39 Jack87, there is an Applications:XApps page on the wiki now. Sep 25 09:15:49 add any known friendly apps and I will review. Sep 25 09:16:05 oo nice Sep 25 09:16:32 ka6sox, i was actually wondering... can we do synergy within webos (not in x chroot) and use computer keyboard? Sep 25 09:17:01 Jack87, I've seen a client...dunno if that was a chrooted thing or not. Sep 25 09:17:16 (seen a video of it running on multiple devices. Sep 25 09:17:17 ka6sox, it might of just been x Sep 25 09:17:18 ) Sep 25 09:17:27 yes i saw that rwhitby did it Sep 25 09:17:33 yep Sep 25 09:17:35 i wonder if we can make the client an optware app Sep 25 09:17:44 thats the one I was referring to. Sep 25 09:17:56 and that way use it outside of x perhaps? Sep 25 09:18:14 things that make use of graphics are not in Optware mostly Sep 25 09:18:14 rwhitby, was in x only as i remember. it be cool to get keyboard access in the rest of webos Sep 25 09:18:39 you'd have to use something like keyboss to insert keystrokes into the kernel Sep 25 09:18:41 ka6sox, is there a teminal base synergy client? Sep 25 09:18:42 well. I do have access via the BT keyboard. Sep 25 09:19:00 rwhitby, intreasting Sep 25 09:19:16 the primary issue I would think is that "mouse" events are not supported in our kernel. Sep 25 09:19:18 What's the process I need to follow to get TigerVNC formally added to Xecutah? Sep 25 09:19:19 the stock one. Sep 25 09:19:20 ka6sox, hehe i mean other than using BT keyboard Sep 25 09:19:57 ka6sox, you can switch desktop with other ways other than mouse events i believe. you just configure the server how to switch between machines Sep 25 09:20:14 Soruk, is the source for the app somewhere we can look and build it from? Sep 25 09:20:56 Soruk: public source repository is a key item, for security reasons Sep 25 09:21:58 Currently, the source is at www.tigervnc.org, and a minimal patch to get it to build (and a menu popup remap) is at http://www.eridani.co.uk/webos/TigerVNC-tp.diff Sep 25 09:22:04 In this channel, we're of the opinion that publicly accessible source code is pretty important ;) Sep 25 09:22:41 It's also packaged with dwm, at dwm.suckless.org Sep 25 09:23:04 Soruk: why is dwm needed? Sep 25 09:23:53 Without a window manager of sourts, TigerVNC's screen window doesn't receive keyboard events. Same is true of every Linux VNC client I've tried to run without a window manager. Sep 25 09:24:23 My build of dwm is configured to be completely invisible, no title bars or anything, to maximise the screen space available for TigerVNC. Sep 25 09:25:31 Soruk, so its not good enough to call an xterm in the x-server canvas and then start tigerVNC? Sep 25 09:26:02 It also auto-maximises the VNC screen - difference between that and fullscreen mode is fullscreen doesn't offer any scroll bars even if your remote screen is bigger. Sep 25 09:26:21 true Sep 25 09:26:31 I tried that, it worked to connect but it didn't receive any inputs until I also added a window manager, initially twm. Sep 25 09:27:47 how "heavy" is this in terms of memory space? Sep 25 09:28:00 one second... Sep 25 09:29:04 Soruk: since PreCentral isn't responding, would you like to distribute via git.webos-internals.org and the webos-internals feeds? Sep 25 09:29:39 Certainly, yes please. Sep 25 09:29:52 Soruk: you familiar with git? Sep 25 09:30:42 ps shows dwm having a VSZ of 3216. RSS 1096, vncviewer VSZ 5636, RSS 1792. Sep 25 09:30:53 Not at all, but I'll learn ^_^ Sep 25 09:32:24 that vnc figure is at the login screen, I'm away from home, doing 3G on my laptop and no connectivity to my touchpad. Sep 25 09:32:40 Soruk, okay thats not bad. Sep 25 09:33:06 so do you immediately transition from dwm background to the app? Sep 25 09:33:28 * rwhitby bbiab Sep 25 09:34:06 Yeah, my start script starts dwm as a background app then kicks off vncviewer. Sep 25 09:35:19 I'll need to make a few other changes to vncviewer, as it stands however you exit it it has an exit code of 1. I want to make a user-request exit to have an exit of 0, so mistyped passwords or link failure can be caught to restart the app but user-requested close just stops it. Sep 25 09:35:39 either that, or call the start new session bit in the code instead of exiting! Sep 25 09:36:04 something else I have planned is to do a L-R button switch so you can right-click. Sep 25 09:36:20 so there is a floating window for the connect then a FS window upon connect with scrollbars as necessary? Sep 25 09:36:40 Yes. Sep 25 09:36:57 hey guys, this isn't exactly a true "internals" question, but can anyone think of a particularly good reason why the default setting for "accelerated" in a VirtualRepeater is false? i just flipped it to true in my base framework, and some apps that really sucked are just smokin fast now Sep 25 09:37:26 Soruk, you could make it a "service" and say start upon stop so it would restart. Sep 25 09:37:50 If you want a play the latest package is at the TigerVNC thread on precentral or at www.eridani.co.uk/webos/ Sep 25 09:39:08 Soruk, so if its in a card it would "die" a natural death if the card was thrown away... Sep 25 09:39:26 but if it died because of a failure it would bring you back to the connect. Sep 25 09:39:32 I'll look into that. Sep 25 09:40:55 I assume this isnt' SDL but rather runs in a chroot? or native with X-support. Sep 25 09:41:38 Native with X support. Sep 25 10:11:46 ~logs Sep 25 10:11:46 All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23webos%2dinternals/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. Sep 25 11:13:43 rwhitby, have you seen this script? http://forums.precentral.net/webos-development/295909-easy-autoconfiguration-ubuntu.html Sep 25 11:14:00 what do you think? is it safe or worth giving a shot? Sep 25 11:17:48 hi I'm new to this webOS thing need help to install Bantu on HP touchpad don't know how to use meta-doctor please gelp Sep 25 11:18:34 need help I have installed macports and score and don't know what to do know Sep 25 11:19:03 akeel1519, go look at the wiki. its all there Sep 25 11:19:15 akeel1519, no one here will tell you anything different than what is already documented Sep 25 11:19:47 I can't make it it out maybe cos I'm a little stupid don't know how to build meta doctor Sep 25 11:20:17 do I use the palm SDK in xcode ? Sep 25 11:21:18 akeel1519, try following the wiki as it says it explains it all Sep 25 11:21:41 no SDK is required to make a meta doctor however you will need linux machine the instructions are targeted towards ubuntu Sep 25 11:22:10 I have a mac so am I stuck Sep 25 11:22:24 akeel1519, read the wiki.. there is mac guide Sep 25 11:23:02 akeel1519, where are you looking for guidance right now anyway? Sep 25 11:23:26 how do I install Lewin things Sep 25 11:23:43 mdsum5 Sep 25 11:24:23 I want to try Bantu out Sep 25 11:24:31 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Sep 25 11:24:41 * Jack87 doesnt use mac... ^ follow instructions and good luck Sep 25 11:24:57 its all layed out step by step Sep 25 11:25:15 ho do I install the ports Sep 25 11:25:41 like i said i dont use mac.. youll have to figure that out else where Sep 25 11:26:02 ok thanks that's where I'm stuck Sep 25 11:26:39 im sure a google search should come in handy (as that isnt really webos related its a different project) Sep 25 11:27:08 rwhitby: ping Sep 25 14:26:46 Hoot Sep 25 15:22:39 I love impostah's app description Sep 25 15:38:55 so..any obvious way to force turn off device when in USB/recovery mode? in particular if USB connection has stopped work :P Sep 25 15:39:05 holding down power button for ages does nothing Sep 25 15:39:12 (on TouchPad) Sep 25 15:46:14 did youtube start blocking the hptp? Sep 25 15:46:25 for some reason all frames where the video should be, are now black Sep 25 15:46:29 without that i changed anything Sep 25 15:47:41 hi, compiling c/c++ for same for pre as pixi? or do i need seperate packages for each? Sep 25 15:53:29 RaYmAn: try holding the home button and the power button down for 30s Sep 25 15:53:55 awesome! Sep 25 15:53:58 that worked :) Sep 25 15:53:58 Zuchmir2: depends on your compiler options... pixi is armv6, pre is armv7 Sep 25 15:54:01 after around 10 secs Sep 25 15:54:41 yea, 10, I just tell people 20 or 30 in case they count fast :) Sep 25 15:54:49 lol Sep 25 15:55:08 * RaYmAn feels embarrased for not reading the obvious posts about getting out of recovery mode Sep 25 15:55:09 dwc-: been using /opt/PalmPDK/arm-gcc/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc -Wall -O2 -fPIC -I/opt/PalmPDK/arm-gcc/include -DDISTRIBUTION -DNDEBUG -c file.c Sep 25 15:55:26 I just assumed it as people being stuck in recovery mode in the sense of rebooting into recovery mode everytime, lol Sep 25 15:55:53 would that be using arm6 or arm7 (how can i tell) Sep 25 15:56:24 probably armv4, lol (iirc, that's the default in gcc) Sep 25 15:57:01 file plugin.so shows: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, strippe Sep 25 15:57:22 so should that work on pixi as well as pre? Sep 25 15:58:08 I'm not sure... I don't have a pixi Sep 25 15:59:17 is there any sample code with Makefile for plugin (or other bin) that runs on both pre and pixi Sep 25 15:59:40 try wIRC Sep 25 16:00:51 thanks Sep 25 16:49:25 ~seen Zuchmir2 Sep 25 16:49:31 zuchmir2 <18e453fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.228.83.251> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 48m 40s ago, saying: 'thanks'. Sep 25 20:28:51 dtzWill: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Touchpad_Bluetooth_Keyboard#Keyboard_layouts Sep 25 20:29:17 my english sucks :( Sep 25 20:30:07 Is Rod around? Sep 25 20:30:55 Andreas___: ping him? he's probably sleeping if I had to guess Sep 25 20:30:58 but idk Sep 25 20:33:16 ok, my english aint that good so I had trouble understanding the last step in how to get App Catalog access. Sep 25 20:33:57 Wasnt sure if just doctor it and relogin to the Impostah created account or create a completely new account with the phone. Sep 25 20:36:00 Said to turn backup off so that got deleted so I figured I should login to that account again. (feels a bit stupid today lol) Sep 25 20:40:40 LunohoD, thanks. Sep 25 20:45:46 + Sep 25 20:45:57 oops Sep 25 21:08:02 cool optware is ported to dd-wrt! :) http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Optware Sep 25 21:08:49 well... I mean, dd-wrt had optware before we did Sep 25 21:09:02 is it valid enough to be added to the optware platforms section of the optware wikipedia article? Sep 25 21:09:07 oh it did? Sep 25 21:09:11 so its not the same? Sep 25 21:09:22 oh its added there alrady i see it Sep 25 21:09:25 I mean, it is Sep 25 21:09:46 optware was a thing that was started for the nslu2 embedded linux Sep 25 21:09:53 right Sep 25 21:10:21 does anyone know the subpixel orientation on the touchpad? Sep 25 21:10:21 I don't know the specifics, but dd-wrt has been using it for a while Sep 25 21:11:11 i know openWRT was.. but ya looking at the dd-wrt wiki history. the wiki was created aug of 09 so a little after the pre was released Sep 25 21:11:49 oh, I may be confusing openwrt + dd-wrt Sep 25 21:12:02 regardless, yes, dd-wrt has optware Sep 25 22:25:36 yay for rdesktop :) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9259463/xserver_2011-25-09_161951.png Sep 25 22:27:21 now i just gotta finish my app Sep 25 22:27:27 and you'll have an easy remote desktop gui Sep 25 22:27:51 i'm waiting on rwhitby to add my app to his whitelist :) Sep 25 22:28:27 i am in rdesktop now Sep 25 22:28:35 excellent Sep 25 22:28:51 however, my app will make it much easier to connect/save connections Sep 25 22:29:03 without the need for a full window manager+chroot setup Sep 25 22:29:21 http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touchpad-apps/300550-wip-easy-remote-desktop-client-gui-done.html Sep 25 22:29:34 halfhalo, ^ did you see Sep 25 22:29:54 IOMonster, nice to see you in webos community! Sep 25 22:30:22 ah! weren't you in the lg revolution channel? Sep 25 22:31:22 IOMonster, no we have history in nookdevs i believe Sep 25 22:31:27 or nookie or somethign Sep 25 22:31:59 IOMonster, nook stuff. Sep 25 22:32:10 ah okay Sep 25 22:32:16 now i'm remembering it all Sep 25 22:32:18 howdy ka6sox Sep 25 22:32:24 hehe yup Sep 25 22:32:25 i'm just all over the place haha Sep 25 22:32:35 IOMonster, how are you enjoying webos? Sep 25 22:32:50 i like it a lot-- it's much smoother than android in terms of user experience Sep 25 22:32:58 but from a developer standpoint, it's a mess Sep 25 22:32:58 haha Sep 25 22:34:01 IOMonster, its "different" Sep 25 22:34:04 webos needs a few things: 1) better documentation Sep 25 22:34:07 2) a superuser app Sep 25 22:34:20 3) some "cleanup in the filesystem aisle" Sep 25 22:34:27 but other than that Sep 25 22:34:30 i like it more than android Sep 25 22:34:35 from the 'user' standpoint Sep 25 22:34:36 #2 xterm Sep 25 22:34:38 good to have you here... Sep 25 22:34:49 #1 agreed Sep 25 22:35:07 i dont think there will be a superuser app ever... but you are welcome to use xterm to run your own commands Sep 25 22:35:23 #3 the cryptofs throws a wrinkle in this but its a good way to deal with things. Sep 25 22:35:25 for #2 i mean a service that acts as an intermediary between applications and services that need to run in linux subsystem Sep 25 22:35:27 ka6sox, super user app gave third party apps sudo in android Sep 25 22:35:36 here's the reason for superuser app Sep 25 22:35:43 my app ioremote needs to launch rdesktop Sep 25 22:35:45 and xserver Sep 25 22:35:54 IOMonster, i believe the practice is certain services for the apps that need special access Sep 25 22:36:08 IOMonster, have you checked out the xapps wiki? Sep 25 22:36:17 but right now i have to write a service to be able to run a local app Sep 25 22:36:21 IOMonster, give me a week and rdesktop will work fine. Sep 25 22:36:24 i think a superuser app would be excellent Sep 25 22:36:32 as a "user" Sep 25 22:36:36 not client. Sep 25 22:36:38 i guess there is nothing there yet Sep 25 22:36:41 sorry Sep 25 22:36:44 not server Sep 25 22:36:47 since then i could just call com.thecubed.superuser with {"params": "/usr/bin/rdesktop"} and be done with it Sep 25 22:36:47 but ka6sox is working on developing xapps Sep 25 22:37:28 nice Sep 25 22:37:31 IOMonster, basically all you will have to do is run xecutah, and choose rdesktop. Sep 25 22:37:45 and all that you said will be handled. Sep 25 22:38:02 ka6sox: but how will you handle saving connection details? Sep 25 22:38:09 i've already written a gui that does that Sep 25 22:38:32 I'd use rdesktops connection manager. Sep 25 22:38:42 and save it locally on the TP. Sep 25 22:38:59 so your app would rely on the x frontend of rdesktop for connection managing? Sep 25 22:39:14 yup Sep 25 22:39:27 eh, i think i'll keep working on mine Sep 25 22:39:35 i'd prefer a native webos frontend Sep 25 22:39:53 WFM.... Sep 25 22:39:57 ? Sep 25 22:40:02 and I'll continue with XApps. Sep 25 22:40:07 Works for Me. Sep 25 22:40:26 okey dokey Sep 25 22:40:33 what other xapps are you working on? Sep 25 22:40:37 XApps was never envisioned as a replacement for Native Apps. Sep 25 22:40:49 ka6sox, i think i will mess with samba soon Sep 25 22:40:52 it was for things that we couldnt' get easily on the TP. Sep 25 22:41:18 IOMonster, started with XChat, now testing chromium browser and then libreoffice Sep 25 22:41:18 ah Sep 25 22:41:26 very nice Sep 25 22:41:32 those sort of things i think are incredibly useful Sep 25 22:41:56 IOMonster, hehe and i am lighting a fire under transmission and rdesktop and whatever else i can think of Sep 25 22:42:13 yes, until we get native apps that run better than the XApps. I just wanted something we could use to make things better in the "App" department. Sep 25 22:42:23 see, here's why i think we need a superuser app-- that way i can write webos frontends to console apps like samba Sep 25 22:43:01 IOMonster, you can create an app that has root privs. Sep 25 22:43:09 we have a lot of them already. Sep 25 22:43:11 yep, you just gotta write a service Sep 25 22:43:12 IOMonster, you can write a service for such apps if you like Sep 25 22:43:23 yeah, i just don't see a need in duplicating services Sep 25 22:43:34 IOMonster, you can write one service to control multiple apps Sep 25 22:43:37 i think unifying the root permissions service would be useful Sep 25 22:43:41 call it IO service :) Sep 25 22:43:55 could be done. Sep 25 22:43:56 yep, that's what i'll be doing apparently haha Sep 25 22:44:00 IOMonster, there was a service that controled all but it was a secuirt risk rwhitby took it down Sep 25 22:44:09 not so Sep 25 22:44:17 rwhitby, oh? please clearify Sep 25 22:44:24 the advantage to my idea is that when an app requests a local application ran it'd pop up with a notification Sep 25 22:44:30 allowing the user to allow or deny the request Sep 25 22:45:39 i just hate duplicating work that's all Sep 25 22:47:59 IOMonster: yeah, I've thought about such a root proxy app in the past. Sep 25 22:48:13 i'd be happy to do the GUI for you Sep 25 22:48:42 i think it'd be advantageous to have an app that presents the user with the ability to allow/deny the reguest, and view the raw command details Sep 25 22:48:43 well, it would have to be in Mojo, since such a proxy would not only be for touchpads Sep 25 22:48:56 i think i'd to a mojo/enyo version Sep 25 22:49:06 sounds good, fat apps ftw Sep 25 22:49:09 i think i've figured out a possible way to have a hybrid version Sep 25 22:49:28 so the enyo version could use enyo noticiations like the usb disk popup Sep 25 22:49:35 and the mojo version would just use a dialog Sep 25 22:49:38 combined mojo/enyo apps are well known and documented Sep 25 22:49:42 ah okay Sep 25 22:49:43 sweet Sep 25 22:49:58 they're even accepted into the app catalog Sep 25 22:50:10 once i get my enyo rdp gui done, i'll make it a hybrid mojo/enyo app Sep 25 22:50:26 IOMonster: BTW, hybrid means something different in webOS. Sep 25 22:50:31 ah okay Sep 25 22:50:36 you're describing a multi-platform package Sep 25 22:50:38 ah Sep 25 22:50:43 or "fat app" Sep 25 22:50:45 hybrid means pdk/webos then? Sep 25 22:50:50 yes Sep 25 22:50:53 okey dokey Sep 25 22:50:56 thanks Sep 25 22:51:16 the frustrating part about coming from android/desktop linux to another platform is the terminology is confusing Sep 25 22:51:33 IOMonster: let's discuss the root proxy service later - I need to get the kids to school right now Sep 25 22:51:38 okey dokey Sep 25 22:52:27 when you get some time, i'd like to discuss the possibility of adding arguments support to xecutah's c-service Sep 25 22:53:30 yep, later today Sep 25 22:53:36 okey dokey Sep 25 22:53:42 sounds good to me Sep 25 22:53:50 (8:30m monday here) Sep 25 22:53:53 ah wow Sep 25 22:53:59 you're waay ahead of me Sep 25 22:54:07 can you make any predictions about the future? Sep 25 22:54:10 :) Sep 25 22:54:20 when the world ends, I'll give you some advance warning Sep 25 22:54:24 sweet Sep 25 22:54:27 heh Sep 25 22:54:45 everyone, monday is guaranteed. stop the doomsday clocks :) Sep 25 22:54:50 * rwhitby bbl Sep 25 22:55:34 9minutes till midnight Sep 25 22:55:40 bbl Sep 25 22:56:25 I wonder wtf I was doing last time I was working on kismet Sep 25 23:23:39 Looking for some advice, random event happened. I was uninstalling the Ubuntu Chroot package via Preware. After it was done I restarted the device only to find that Preware was gone as were a load of my Homebrew Apps, but patches seemed to be intact.Anyone know what might have caused this? Catalog apps were unaffected, and no synergy services were lost. Sep 25 23:24:08 Let me clarify, patches don't show as installed via Preware, but they are effective on the device. Sep 25 23:26:40 emergency patch recovery Sep 25 23:27:32 that reverts everything to normal correct? Sep 25 23:28:14 And then I can reinstall them all correctly? Sep 25 23:29:13 yo Sep 25 23:29:20 so what's all the tweeting about AT&T pre3 phones? Sep 25 23:29:30 they're just trickling on to ebay? Sep 25 23:30:00 or try emergency reconstruction utility Sep 25 23:30:13 that's all I've heard Sep 25 23:30:21 but new ceo so who the hell knows Sep 25 23:31:14 oh nice Sep 25 23:31:15 yay Sep 25 23:33:44 http://yfrog.com/o0u1qxj Sep 25 23:56:23 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Xapps Sep 26 00:12:14 is there any information on writing a VPN provider? Sep 26 00:12:33 i'd like to have openvpn in the vpn menu on my touchpad Sep 26 00:13:19 i found the modules that ship with webOS and what the function signatures it needs to export are Sep 26 00:13:38 however my reverse-engineering skills stop there, i have no idea what the signature needs to be Sep 26 00:14:20 cmv: I'm interested in the same. Sep 26 00:14:30 it seems to be basically "start connection" and "stop connection", and it looks like there are a lot of internal (c) luna calls Sep 26 00:14:32 haven't started on figuring out functions in the so yet Sep 26 00:14:46 yeah it's probably pretty easy Sep 26 00:14:48 are there headers for those internal calls anywhere? Sep 26 00:15:02 cmv: no, doubtful, you'll have to write your own Sep 26 00:15:11 cmv: there is not. I tried to look at it, and stopped at the undocumented .so's Sep 26 00:15:17 hrm ok Sep 26 00:15:39 cmv: I'm sure it could be reverse engineered though, using ls-monitor and strace. Sep 26 00:15:54 i may try to hack something into the emulator then Sep 26 00:16:06 but I figured i'd make sure i wasn't reinventing any wheels Sep 26 00:17:34 cmv: if you do publish what you do learn on the wiki that would be awesome, we also have a code repository and the feeds if you want to go past a POC Sep 26 00:19:57 yeah I'll make a wiki page with what I know so far (which is not much) Sep 26 00:20:40 i suppose i should also learn about how webos processes work (does everything except native code live in luna processes?) Sep 26 00:27:03 anyone else see palm s site, error out Sep 26 00:28:52 Hi rod, sorry i keep bothering you but my english aint that good and I was confused about step 15 in impostah activation. Sep 26 00:29:48 I doctored and logged into impostah profile, was that wrong so i need to doctor again and create a new profile? Sep 26 00:34:16 Andreas_: impostah-created profiles are no different from any other profiles Sep 26 00:43:44 rwhitby: so no need to create new profile with the Pre3? Ive doctored it with 2.2 but aint there a OTA upgrade available, havent got that? Sep 26 00:51:20 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/VPN_Plugins Sep 26 00:51:27 that's about all i know at this point Sep 26 00:56:04 cmv: good start Sep 26 01:19:04 cmv, good start indeed Sep 26 01:25:33 thanks Sep 26 01:25:40 i'll post an strace when i get a chance Sep 26 01:26:03 i think PmVpnDaemon is where i'd want to start Sep 26 01:26:21 Yeah Sep 26 01:27:44 dtzWill: you around? Sep 26 01:28:42 M25: sorta. yes, but distracted a bit, but i'll do what i can :). sup? Sep 26 01:31:44 whenever you add the xrandr stuff to xorg, will it show up in the testing feeds before the regular feeds? Sep 26 01:31:47 or both at onace? Sep 26 01:31:48 *once Sep 26 01:32:11 Andreas_: Pre 3 doctor has the latest 3171 build Sep 26 01:32:41 M25: new stuff would always be in an alpha or beta feed before going in the stable feed. Sep 26 01:32:47 (by definition) Sep 26 01:34:51 gotcha. what I'm really asking is if it's worth it to reinstall preware just to get the beta feeds Sep 26 01:35:23 yep, testing feed. Sep 26 01:35:59 eh xrandr is worth it. any ETA on that? Sep 26 01:36:42 no, although after this week i should be post-deadline-madness and will be looking for some webos goodness, and taht's high on my list :) Sep 26 01:37:01 sweeet, thanks for the info Sep 26 01:37:02 peace Sep 26 01:39:00 I don't get why people ask whether it's "worth" using the alpha or beta feeds. Either you're testing something or you're not. It's a binary decision. Sep 26 01:54:32 rwhitby: yeah, they're basically trying to decide whether something is useable enough to hassle with the probable bugs it contains. Google and others have trained people into thinking using beta software as if it were released is normal behavior :-/ Sep 26 01:55:45 so they may be "testers" in that they're using test software and who knows, some may even file bug reports when the test software breaks, who knows? :) Sep 26 01:59:38 If I have to be honest, somehow I doubt many of them will though Sep 26 02:07:42 did something changed in the Mobile Hotspot app with webOS v.2? It works on my Pre but not on my Pre3 Sep 26 02:12:06 rwhitby: As an android guy with a touch pad I hate admit your right. The overwhelming majority of Android users will grab alpha and beta builds and then complain about what doesnt work. hey will not bug report. Sep 26 02:14:07 badfrog: worse than that, we had a guy in here complaining because we turned the amorphous testing feed into explicit alpha and beta feeds. Sep 26 02:14:38 ive been following your posts at xda Sep 26 02:15:20 im well used to it...i actually test fro some devs and help on irc and android people have been trained that beta means usable Sep 26 02:15:59 well, beta should be usable. that's why we have alpha :) Sep 26 02:16:27 they think beta means everything works and someone just needs to slap RC on it :) Sep 26 02:17:14 anyway....we arent all ignorant so don't judge us all please lol Sep 26 02:17:47 oh, I know there are heaps of excellent developers and users on xda. They just don't seem to be in the webOS threads ;) Sep 26 02:18:13 they arent...they are mostly people wnating android ported and are being idiots Sep 26 02:18:43 i want more apps for webos myself...i have an android tablet Sep 26 02:19:36 that what i wanted to say.....i'm going back to lurking now....thx Sep 26 02:20:22 I personally can't wait for the Android port to be released, so the folks who just want Android can get it and bugger off. Sep 26 02:20:57 i don't blame you one bit Sep 26 02:36:17 rwhitby, agreed Sep 26 02:36:20 though honestly I'm glad they're getting exposed to webos, a lot of people have discovered how good it is Sep 26 02:36:33 too bad hp doesnt care :( Sep 26 02:36:52 destinal, hehe ya many talanted devs that just didnt know better Sep 26 02:36:57 keep making apps and a few of will.....im have mutiple tps Sep 26 02:37:11 oil: true, but the fat lady hasn't sung yet, either :) Sep 26 02:38:45 didn't she say in that ceo changeover call that they're not changing plans? Sep 26 02:39:23 regarding webos that is Sep 26 02:39:26 at the moment, but now she is ceo she will review. which means not changing plans but keeping the option open in case she decides to (which she wont) Sep 26 02:41:49 Oh, not trying to be a jerk here... but what's so good about webos? I've been trying to like it since I got my TP. I thought I was going to like it. Sep 26 02:41:56 I like the cards and how you multitask. Sep 26 02:41:58 But that's about it... Sep 26 02:42:23 Are there any must have apps that I'm missing? Sep 26 02:42:29 vividboarder, its great for technical users Sep 26 02:42:46 Jack87, why? Sep 26 02:42:52 I'm a very technical user... Sep 26 02:42:53 it lacks a bunch of useless apps in the catalog :) Sep 26 02:43:06 So, what makes it great for technical users? Sep 26 02:43:07 vividboarder, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Xapps Sep 26 02:43:26 Yea, that's my next step actually. :P Sep 26 02:43:33 :) Sep 26 02:43:34 I installed xserver and everything. Sep 26 02:43:39 good luck Sep 26 02:43:40 Just have to partition and install ubuntu Sep 26 02:44:03 Hmm... that's pretty solid. Sep 26 02:44:10 They run in their own cards... Nice. Sep 26 02:44:21 nice Sep 26 02:44:37 badfrog, you stalker! Sep 26 02:44:44 i was here first Sep 26 02:45:11 i was apolagizing for the morons in our android world Sep 26 02:45:16 Haha Sep 26 02:45:22 even though i cant type Sep 26 02:46:08 lol Sep 26 02:46:17 there are morons everywhere Sep 26 02:46:35 not like ours Sep 26 02:46:38 Especially on the internet. :P Sep 26 02:46:41 oil: it's just a matter of population size which makes the difference Sep 26 02:46:42 oil, you are right... i been using webos from the start. and im around :) Sep 26 02:46:47 badfrog, you've obviously never had an iPhone. ;) Sep 26 02:46:54 nope lol Sep 26 02:47:19 i always thought webos had a pretty good ratio of moron to not a moron Sep 26 02:47:37 Good. :) Sep 26 02:47:53 oil, most morons from webos migrate to other platforms lucky us Sep 26 02:47:57 Haha Sep 26 02:47:58 heh Sep 26 02:48:06 lack of shitty apps keeps shitty users away Sep 26 02:48:13 android is 75 n00b 15% good 15% testers and 5% devs Sep 26 02:48:39 thats 110%? xD Sep 26 02:48:43 there are apps webos needs for people like me..i can do video or control my desktop completely from my tablet Sep 26 02:48:56 Yea, but badfrog you are leaving out the 70% "devs" Sep 26 02:48:57 65% n00bs Sep 26 02:49:13 badfrog, hehe soon enough.. with xapps a lot is possible Sep 26 02:49:19 The noobs that change some images in a .zip and say they just came out with a new ROM. Sep 26 02:49:20 :P Sep 26 02:49:25 i did rotrrent to my win7 computer Sep 26 02:49:28 vnc is coming soon Sep 26 02:49:31 we hope Sep 26 02:49:33 :) Sep 26 02:49:34 new nothing until you posted that link..im excited Sep 26 02:49:50 Jack87, VNC is nothing once you've used TeamViewer... Sep 26 02:50:07 i hoping splashtop makes their client because i already use it for android Sep 26 02:50:09 But... with X Window you can probably run TeamViwer anyway. Sep 26 02:50:21 vividboarder, is it opensoruce and free? Sep 26 02:50:33 Jack87, not OSS but it is Free. Sep 26 02:50:39 vividboarder, yes you probably can Sep 26 02:50:53 if its not OSS i dont think ill bother with it (personally) Sep 26 02:51:16 It's free and supports Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iPhone. It gets a way better framerate than I ever get with VNC as well. Sep 26 02:51:29 I'd recommend trying it out. Sep 26 02:51:38 Just for the "experience" ;) Sep 26 02:52:06 vividboarder, maybe. if i get a chance Sep 26 02:52:41 Couldnt run teamviewer anyway, no arm build. Unless you can get the android build to work somehow Sep 26 02:52:50 theres just not the ease of functionality like i have with android right now...i have to tp doing most of the stuff i can do on my android tab but not all Sep 26 02:53:10 vividboarder: it's interesting that due to us making Preware support end-user mix and match of kernels and patches, there's no need for webOS custom "ROM"s as such, so we don't have that 70% "devs" Sep 26 02:53:16 wrea, I figured it was java... Sep 26 02:53:45 rwhitby, actually, that was one of the things I liked about Cydia and the iOS developers. Sep 26 02:53:53 The ability to "inject" features is pretty sweet. Sep 26 02:54:07 rwhitby, we also dont condone distributing of doctors Sep 26 02:54:13 And, knowing javascript, I've already downloaded the sdk and I'm looking around already. Sep 26 02:54:43 you taking app requests vividboarder? Sep 26 02:54:46 vividboarder: to contribute a patch in Preware, someone only needs to know javascript and diff Sep 26 02:54:57 badfrog, i like my nook color for reading books.. hehe everything else touchpad :) Sep 26 02:55:00 Yea, I asked about that here the other day. Sep 26 02:55:12 i gave up my nook Sep 26 02:55:18 I was looking to make a UA switcher, but I can't find the code where the http request is actually made. Sep 26 02:55:22 badfrog, i will admit it doesnt have all the nice pdf and other readers like android has. but thats the only thing i envy Sep 26 02:55:35 The javascript looks like it calls some other method I don't have access to with just the URL. Sep 26 02:55:37 it doesnt have the video either Sep 26 02:56:02 i stream everything off my server/desktop Sep 26 02:56:18 What do you use badfrog? I use Plex. Sep 26 02:56:28 my wife is using it for a book reader just fine tho Sep 26 02:56:36 but, aparently Orb works pretty well on Webos Sep 26 02:56:48 Teamviewer for linux requires wine, or so it looks like Sep 26 02:56:54 vividboarder, i used orb back in 09 on my original pre it was not bad Sep 26 02:57:06 i was looking at orb Sep 26 02:57:10 Nice. I haven't used it... since I got my Wii. haha Sep 26 02:57:48 mostly its easier to mount the drive under cifs and just play it Sep 26 02:58:12 windows and me are fighting over dnla **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 26 02:59:56 2011