**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 09 02:59:58 2011
Dec 09 04:14:35 <wrea> sconix, looks like any dbus modules for node.js i can find are for 0.4 and up
Dec 09 04:22:43 <rwhitby> wrea: touchpad has 0.4.12, no?
Dec 09 04:27:53 <wrea> rwhitby, yeah, but i thought a mojo version for older devices was planned for pulseaudio settings
Dec 09 04:28:12 * rwhitby dunnos
Dec 09 04:28:53 <netrider> How do you find the linux command line on a Palm Pre 3
Dec 09 04:29:42 <netrider> I'm looking at some instructions that tell me to find "Tools" in Preware
Dec 09 04:29:55 <netrider> But I can't find any "Tools"
Dec 09 04:30:12 <rwhitby> netrider: install Xecutah from Preware
Dec 09 04:30:13 <wrea> well, its on the TODO at least
Dec 09 04:30:58 <netrider> ty
Dec 09 04:32:09 <halfhalo> you could bundle another node executable with mojo versions for older devices and use something like dnode to talk between the system and bundled
Dec 09 04:33:24 <wrea> i figured something like that was possible
Dec 09 04:40:45 <andrew_in_co> Hi, I'm trying to remove any sort of on screen notification when you push the physical volume keys on my touchpad.
Dec 09 04:41:07 <andrew_in_co> i've discovered the actual images in /usr/palm/sysmgr/images
Dec 09 04:41:19 <andrew_in_co> and i changed the appropriate ones to just be transparent
Dec 09 04:41:31 <andrew_in_co> however, I'm still left with a gray box
Dec 09 04:41:58 <andrew_in_co> my next thought is to search the device for references to these image files, ie "bell_off.png"
Dec 09 04:42:34 <andrew_in_co> but grepping is taking forever...does anyone have any idea where on the device references to these images might be?
Dec 09 05:08:37 <summatusmentis> how do I send special characters that aren't on my pre keyboard to xterm?
Dec 09 05:08:56 <summatusmentis> specifically { and }
Dec 09 05:11:10 <dwc-> xterm? you don't
Dec 09 05:12:14 <summatusmentis> you can actually, sym+h
Dec 09 05:13:13 <summatusmentis> except there's no close :-/
Dec 09 05:14:08 <dwc-> actually I think I have the old xterm stuff
Dec 09 05:14:18 <dwc-> so I have it on sym y/u
Dec 09 05:14:49 <summatusmentis> that's [] here
Dec 09 05:20:28 <netrider> rwhitby: OK ... I installed Xecutah. I'm not sure that I am putting the command line right.
Dec 09 05:20:33 <summatusmentis> there, hopefully now I got rid of voice dial
Dec 09 05:20:39 <summatusmentis> that thing is annoying
Dec 09 05:20:42 <netrider> I keep getting and error
Dec 09 05:20:44 <summatusmentis> especially when you wear tight pants
Dec 09 05:20:46 <netrider> an
Dec 09 05:21:28 <netrider> I am trying to get skype account to show on my unlocked Pre 3
Dec 09 05:21:43 <netrider> I got the right file, I think ...
Dec 09 05:22:28 <netrider> I am using the following command from Xterm    ipkg -force-depends install /media/internal/com.palm.app.skype_1.1-8.3_armv7.ipk
Dec 09 05:24:02 <dwc-> which pre3 do you have, and what was it activated on
Dec 09 05:24:39 <netrider> I have the unlocked ATT Pre 3 activated on ATT
Dec 09 05:24:50 <dwc-> then you should just get skype out of the app catalog
Dec 09 05:25:03 <netrider> nope
Dec 09 05:25:16 <netrider> not there ... but let me look again
Dec 09 05:25:48 <dwc-> http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.palm.app.skype
Dec 09 05:25:54 <dwc-> go there from your phone
Dec 09 05:26:08 <dwc-> what does it say
Dec 09 05:28:50 <netrider> application not available
Dec 09 05:28:59 <netrider> for your carrier
Dec 09 05:29:19 <dwc-> did you get this phone new in box, never activated?
Dec 09 05:29:36 <netrider> yes
Dec 09 05:29:51 <netrider> and I put that file in my root directory already
Dec 09 05:30:05 <dwc-> and you activated it with an AT&T SIM the first time?
Dec 09 05:30:09 <netrider> I tried to activate it using preware
Dec 09 05:30:31 <netrider> then I tried the above linux commandline
Dec 09 05:30:46 <netrider> bubkus
Dec 09 05:30:53 <rwhitby> preware does not activate phones
Dec 09 05:31:27 <netrider> no it was activated with the simcard from my Palm Veer
Dec 09 05:31:35 <netrider> on ATT
Dec 09 05:32:00 <dwc-> that's interesting...
Dec 09 05:32:03 <netrider> but it's running WebOS 2.2.0
Dec 09 05:33:25 <netrider> I've been following the instructions from http://forums.precentral.net/hp-pre-3/303094-installing-skype-att-pre-3-a.html
Dec 09 05:33:41 <andrew_in_co> w/ my pre3 I couldn't find skype in app catalog either
Dec 09 05:33:51 <andrew_in_co> but i followed the instructions by modifying the doctor file
Dec 09 05:33:55 <andrew_in_co> and that worked
Dec 09 05:34:05 <andrew_in_co> [at&t pre3 too]
Dec 09 05:34:13 <dwc-> andrew_in_co: was yours -first- activated with an AT&T sim card in it too?
Dec 09 05:35:09 <andrew_in_co> good point
Dec 09 05:35:09 <andrew_in_co> no
Dec 09 05:35:12 <andrew_in_co> I used T-mobile
Dec 09 05:35:22 <dwc-> amongst me and 2 friends, 3 pre3s... one first-activated on TMO, the other two on AT&T sims... only the TMO one can't get it in the catalog
Dec 09 05:36:01 <rwhitby> run impostah, check app catalog -> show device info
Dec 09 05:36:21 <rwhitby> I bet carrierId is "1" for those that can get it, and something else for those that cannot.
Dec 09 05:36:52 <netrider> where is impostah
Dec 09 05:36:57 <rwhitby> in preware
Dec 09 05:36:58 <dwc-> that's my guess as well
Dec 09 05:37:28 <rwhitby> mine's not a guess ;)
Dec 09 05:38:16 <netrider> installing impostah
Dec 09 05:38:36 <andrew_in_co> carrierId = 66
Dec 09 05:39:16 <netrider> carrierid 66
Dec 09 05:39:50 <dwc-> sounds like netrider didn't get a never-activated new in box then
Dec 09 05:40:03 <netrider> wow
Dec 09 05:40:13 <rwhitby> so as far as HP is concerned, you don't have an AT&T Pre 3, you have a Pre 3 activated on another carrier
Dec 09 05:40:48 <netrider> so can I get skype?
Dec 09 05:40:58 <dwc-> yes, but not from the catalog
Dec 09 05:41:07 <andrew_in_co> if you follow the doctor approach, yes
Dec 09 05:41:22 <dwc-> or you can use ipkg to install it as well (that's what I did)
Dec 09 05:42:17 <netrider> I only put one ipk file in the root directory
Dec 09 05:42:26 <netrider> I should put the other in there, right?
Dec 09 05:42:46 <netrider> and run ipkg to install it
Dec 09 05:43:07 <dwc-> I honestly don't remember
Dec 09 05:43:43 <dwc-> and I never reinstalled sshd and don't have a cable handy at the moment to check
Dec 09 05:43:59 <netrider> skype-download_1.0-2_armv7.ipk
Dec 09 05:44:17 <summatusmentis> did the veer ever get T2S?
Dec 09 05:44:29 <dwc-> if you hack 2.2 onto it
Dec 09 05:44:41 <summatusmentis> is there a way to do this?
Dec 09 05:44:52 <summatusmentis> let me rephrase, where do I find the way to do this?
Dec 09 05:44:52 <dwc-> not a 100% safe way
Dec 09 05:44:55 <summatusmentis> oh?
Dec 09 05:45:07 <dwc-> requires some firmware updating
Dec 09 05:45:12 <summatusmentis> hrm
Dec 09 05:45:20 <summatusmentis> that sounds potentially bad
Dec 09 05:45:56 <dwc-> btw, if anyone can find some "social media" contacts for skype people, let me know... I found some guy who used to, but other than that, all I've got is low-level customer support that sends me form replies re: skype on pre3s
Dec 09 05:46:00 <summatusmentis> so what you're saying is I shouldn't cancel my sprint contract just to get T2S
Dec 09 05:46:21 <dwc-> I've found T2S to be neat at first, but a little underwhelming afterwards
Dec 09 05:46:39 <dwc-> it's neat seeing it open the browser window on the other, but then you realize that's pretty much all it can do
Dec 09 05:46:51 <andrew_in_co> does anyone know if the rounded rectangle behind the volume icon is an image, or something drawn?
Dec 09 05:47:00 <summatusmentis> I thought there was a way to extend this
Dec 09 05:47:17 <dwc-> ... and then there's the times you put your phone down on your touchpad and it T2S's when you didn't really want it to
Dec 09 05:47:26 <summatusmentis> hah
Dec 09 05:48:29 <dwc-> also, I think T2S would be neater if it didn't pair two phones together and then mark them to share your address book
Dec 09 05:49:10 <summatusmentis> it pairs phones also?
Dec 09 05:49:16 <dwc-> yep
Dec 09 05:49:31 <summatusmentis> interesting
Dec 09 05:49:36 <dwc-> so not so useful for sharing with friends if you have to then go un-BT pair them afterwards
Dec 09 05:50:01 <summatusmentis> I'm so upset that webOS phones won't exist moving forward :-/
Dec 09 05:50:36 <dwc-> anyways, htere's a forum thread on precentral that covers the veer 2.2.3 and 2.2.4
Dec 09 05:50:45 <dwc-> if you want to do the background reading
Dec 09 05:50:51 <summatusmentis> hrm
Dec 09 05:50:59 <summatusmentis> intriguing
Dec 09 05:51:21 <bnceo> oh the Veer
Dec 09 05:51:25 <bnceo> how I love that phone
Dec 09 05:52:09 <summatusmentis> I should try the simple mobile 2 week plan
Dec 09 05:52:23 <summatusmentis> oh wait, that's not data
Dec 09 05:55:08 <dwc-> so many doctors on this computer, but none for the pre3
Dec 09 05:55:15 * dwc- needs to update novacom drivers
Dec 09 05:57:17 <netrider> another pre3 patient here ...
Dec 09 05:57:47 <netrider> I keep trying to run the commandline to install my skype account but i keep getting an error
Dec 09 05:57:58 <netrider> value 22
Dec 09 05:58:09 <netrider> it is in my root directory
Dec 09 05:58:17 <netrider> on the Pre3
Dec 09 05:59:40 <bnceo> I thought Skype was in the app catalog
Dec 09 05:59:51 <bnceo> and if you got a euro pre3, can be downloaded via Impostah
Dec 09 06:00:01 <bnceo> unless it's only on AT&T Pre3s
Dec 09 06:00:08 <dwc-> it is in the app catalog for everyone but AT&T pre3s activated on non-AT&T networks
Dec 09 06:00:12 <dwc-> I think
Dec 09 06:00:21 <netrider> I think what I go
Dec 09 06:00:25 <bnceo> ah. IC IC. Yeah, I activated on AT&T
Dec 09 06:00:50 <bnceo> funny thing is that Skype isn't even really an app
Dec 09 06:00:56 <bnceo> just more options for synergy
Dec 09 06:01:00 <bnceo> anyways, bedtime. gnite
Dec 09 06:01:23 * bnceo is hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst (from HP's shindig tomorrow)
Dec 09 06:01:27 <netrider> it's a unlocked Pre3 on ATT but carrierId of 66
Dec 09 07:27:37 <mizerable> Just got an update notification for webOS 2.2.4 on a pre 2. Does anyone know if there is a change list?
Dec 09 07:28:25 <wrea> not that I know of
Dec 09 07:31:12 <dwc-> what carrier are you on?
Dec 09 07:31:44 * dwc- pulls up system updates on his pre2
Dec 09 07:31:46 * dwc- waits
Dec 09 07:31:58 <dwc-> nada
Dec 09 07:32:16 <dwc-> and which pre2 do you have
Dec 09 07:33:49 <panel> hello
Dec 09 07:33:52 <mizerable> O2 uk. it's an EU unlocked
Dec 09 07:34:19 <dwc-> interesting :)
Dec 09 08:13:57 <rwhitby> 2 x Pre 2 updating here
Dec 09 08:14:13 <wrea> nice
Dec 09 08:15:28 * dwc- pokes his pre2 again
Dec 09 08:15:47 * dwc- will be sure to try out the new features in HP webOS 2.1
Dec 09 08:24:19 <EricBlade> doesn't look like NA unlockeds are very good to have right now
Dec 09 08:24:40 <dwc-> worst case, we can masquerade them as EU
Dec 09 08:27:09 * dwc- remembers why he tends to avoid forums... skimming/catching up on the webos 2.2.3/veer thread... so many people who really have no idea what they're doing... probably shouldn't be trying even
Dec 09 08:27:20 <wrea> yeah...
Dec 09 08:28:57 <dwc-> so many idiots posting, I want to smack them
Dec 09 08:31:34 <wrea> no shortage of idiots on the internet, unfortunately
Dec 09 08:38:25 <rwhitby> dwc-: that why I never post raw instructions like that on a PreCentral thread
Dec 09 08:42:09 <dwc-> clueless, oddly desperate, ... not a good combination
Dec 09 08:48:38 <EricBlade> rwhitby: you had a look at the goods yet?
Dec 09 09:03:54 <panel> rwhitby if you will update yours pre2
Dec 09 09:04:12 <panel> do you will have access to new webos doctor ?
Dec 09 09:05:16 <panel> via http://www.hpwebos.com/us/support/downloads/pre/recoverytool/deviceselector_en.html
Dec 09 09:10:08 <EricBlade> my big question, is did they move a bunch of the builtins into the cryptofs as they were talking about doing?
Dec 09 09:11:51 <panel> I have tried to download webos doctor from hp page
Dec 09 09:11:51 <panel> webOS® Doctor™ for Palm® Pre 2 for EU. Build EU.109.108, webOS 2.1.0
Dec 09 09:12:03 <panel> no change
Dec 09 09:12:18 <panel> maybe users with updated phones
Dec 09 09:12:29 <panel> will have access to new 2.2.4 webosdoctor
Dec 09 09:13:49 <panel> EricBlade this will be interesting
Dec 09 09:14:03 <panel> about that cryptofs
Dec 09 09:40:04 <threezero> how much do you guys thinki shoud pay for a used pre2 right now?
Dec 09 10:13:33 <lm> patches
Dec 09 10:15:23 <lm> how to reinstall webos patches after webos update installation?
Dec 09 10:15:26 <EricBlade> threezero_: i just got an awesome deal on one with a bunch of stuff with it for $50.. when i looked on the net before hand i was seeing them for 150-200
Dec 09 10:15:41 <EricBlade> lm: well, first you'll need to wait for the patches to get updated
Dec 09 10:16:30 <lm> did you mean to be available for update?
Dec 09 10:29:27 <rwhitby> panel: doctor often trails by a day or two
Dec 09 10:49:05 <panel> ok
Dec 09 10:49:06 <panel> thanks
Dec 09 11:02:16 <EricBlade> if this isn't showing for US by a few minutes after 6, i'm out
Dec 09 11:06:16 <panel> "No Skype added in the EU version :("
Dec 09 11:06:18 <panel> from forum
Dec 09 11:06:53 <panel> this is crazy
Dec 09 11:07:21 <panel> have somebody solution how to enroll skype on webos ?
Dec 09 11:07:32 <panel> i need skypechat only
Dec 09 11:08:12 <EricBlade> be very careful with it if you get it working, and you do any groupchats.  i had a situation where i was private messaging someone that i was also in a group chat with, and everything i sent to them private ended up on the group chat.
Dec 09 11:08:35 <panel> ah
Dec 09 11:11:25 <EricBlade> Data At Rest Encryption?
Dec 09 11:13:27 <panel> i'm not success with updating to 2.2.4, question to rwhitby
Dec 09 11:13:59 <rwhitby> EricBlade: cryptofs on db8 stuff, just like touchpad
Dec 09 11:14:15 <rwhitby> emails, attachments, etc
Dec 09 15:09:17 <netrider> I need some linux sentax help with my Pre3
Dec 09 16:26:25 <summatusmentis> if I receive the option to update to 2.2.4 on my sprintified frankenpre2, should I do it? will it break things?
Dec 09 17:00:36 <EricBlade1> i'd try it because hey there's nothing i like more than being a test dummy.  and i'd assume you could probably re-doctor it
Dec 09 17:01:45 <EricBlade1> other people would probably say "dear god, no, what are you, insane?"
Dec 09 17:06:27 <summatusmentis> I'm not expecting I'll get the option
Dec 09 17:06:29 <summatusmentis> but who knows
Dec 09 17:28:50 <dwc-> I'd totally do it
Dec 09 17:29:03 <dwc-> well, I guess it depends... is that your primary phone
Dec 09 18:39:19 <dtzWill> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/111209xa.html?mtxs=rss-corp-news ??!
Dec 09 18:39:21 <dtzWill> hahaha
Dec 09 18:39:36 <dtzWill> they're open-sourcing webos?!?
Dec 09 18:39:37 <wrea> I wasnt expecting it
Dec 09 18:39:50 <dtzWill> about as -internals as it gets xD :D
Dec 09 18:41:16 <jtrucks> sweet!
Dec 09 18:41:51 <wrea> give me the source nao
Dec 09 18:42:54 * dtzWill checks opensource.palm.com :P
Dec 09 18:44:37 * jcsullins is waiting to see what dtzWill finds ... :)
Dec 09 18:44:55 <dtzWill> xD
Dec 09 18:45:09 <dwc-> there's no way the remaining source will be out already
Dec 09 18:45:13 <dwc-> the lawyers haven't gotten paid yet :p
Dec 09 18:45:24 <wrea> :P
Dec 09 18:45:40 <stalane> News just in: HP making webOS open source
Dec 09 18:45:47 <dwc-> they're going to have to go through to make sure there's no non-HP (e.g. licensed from other companies) code in there
Dec 09 18:46:16 <jtrucks> stalane: dude... soooo 6 minutes ago news
Dec 09 18:46:19 <jtrucks> and left.
Dec 09 18:46:20 * jtrucks sighs
Dec 09 18:46:25 <dwc-> 6? more like 9
Dec 09 18:47:54 <jtrucks> and counting :P
Dec 09 18:48:27 <DThought> 9 minutes old?
Dec 09 18:48:28 <DThought> woa *G*
Dec 09 18:54:01 <hemna> yup, just saw email from Meg...Webos = OSS
Dec 09 18:54:02 <hemna> w00t
Dec 09 18:56:39 <dwc-> oh yea, yer an hper
Dec 09 18:57:55 <joem_work> WHAT DOES IT ALL MEANNNNNN
Dec 09 18:58:49 <jtrucks> it means Meg Whitman realises that HP should never have bought Palm and now she's trying to save some face
Dec 09 18:59:00 <jtrucks> and cleanup her predeccessor's mess :P
Dec 09 18:59:00 <stalane> someone better call rwhitby. he would appreciate an early wake up call
Dec 09 19:00:04 <rwhitby> been away for over an hour :)
Dec 09 19:00:09 <rwhitby> s/away/awake/
Dec 09 19:00:09 <infobot> rwhitby meant: been awake for over an hour :)
Dec 09 19:00:43 * EricBlade wonders what rwhitby's thoughts are
Dec 09 19:00:44 <joem_work> hehe
Dec 09 19:00:48 <stalane> lol
Dec 09 19:01:39 <stalane> rwhitby: your life just got a whole lot easier/harder ;-)
Dec 09 19:01:53 * DougReeder waves hello
Dec 09 19:03:17 <DougReeder> Hey, I haven't had much reason to look at the kernel so far. What should I be looking at in an ARM touchscreen netbook to port webOS to?
Dec 09 19:05:26 <DougReeder> Do I need to know what video chips a netbook uses, or can video drivers for most things be found?
Dec 09 19:05:49 <dtzWill> DougReeder: well worst case you can probably do something slow but functional
Dec 09 19:05:57 <dtzWill> and that'd get luna up and whatnot
Dec 09 19:06:04 <DougReeder> Hmmm, slow is bad.
Dec 09 19:06:21 <EricBlade> well now rwhitby and all the other super hackers in this community could potentially make some serious bank for the work they've done.
Dec 09 19:06:23 <dtzWill> but i think you'll find most devices have workable video drivers, imo
Dec 09 19:06:30 <DougReeder> What else should I be checking beforehand?
Dec 09 19:06:47 <dtzWill> esp if luna is based on qt--qtembedded should run on a bunch of stuff
Dec 09 19:07:55 <DougReeder> Do I need to be looking into what kind of touchscreen, beyond capacitive?
Dec 09 19:08:34 <rwhitby> EricBlade: what would you see as a business model that makes serious bank?
Dec 09 19:08:55 <dtzWill> i should probably make it clear i'm mostly musing--i'd naively expect one could with sufficient effort make most hardware combinations work, provided they do have some nature of linux drivers
Dec 09 19:09:46 <EricBlade> rwhitby: i don't know at the moment.
Dec 09 19:10:06 <EricBlade> it does at the very least open the possibility of a lot of new potential jobs, if there were hardware people that needed webos expertise
Dec 09 19:10:36 <EricBlade> or any other people that needed expertise in the internals
Dec 09 19:11:06 * dwc- looks at all the linux kernel people making bank because of it
Dec 09 19:11:09 <dwc-> oh wait...
Dec 09 19:11:14 <rwhitby> EricBlade: oh, right. yes paying full time jobs are always there, but most of the WebOS Internals folks already have full time jobs :)
Dec 09 19:11:46 <stalane> lol. im still here guys. since 1993 (wheres the bank?)
Dec 09 19:11:53 <EricBlade> dwc-: there are a whole lot of people who are employed solely because of Linux existing
Dec 09 19:11:59 <joem_work> rofl @ dwc-
Dec 09 19:13:47 <EricBlade> rwhitby: there are definitely a lot of new doors.  i doubt i would even be a professional programmer had it not been for Unreal going free a couple of years ago.
Dec 09 19:16:34 <stalane> im just hoping to get skype working on my pixi's :-)
Dec 09 19:18:52 <geist> oh nice. open source
Dec 09 19:19:02 <geist> then i can dig through bootie and novacom and use some codez there
Dec 09 19:19:13 <geist> assuming they open source those bits
Dec 09 19:19:49 <dwc-> there are people who are employed doing linux things
Dec 09 19:19:56 <dwc-> and they may have gotten their jobs because of their linux involvement
Dec 09 19:20:09 <dwc-> but those types of people typically don't have trouble finding jobs in the first place
Dec 09 19:20:27 <dwc-> and most of them had jobs to begin with
Dec 09 19:20:41 <stalane> dwc your right of course. not that i want a job
Dec 09 19:21:37 <grep_awesome> i hope some hardware manufacturers pick it up before the code goes stale
Dec 09 19:21:41 <stalane> the only way i can see anyone making any money (other than going to work) is making apps. no different than yesterday
Dec 09 19:22:10 <grep_awesome> from what I read, it doesn't look like the webos gbu will continue development much longer, so either it gets picked up on some devices and dev continues, or it will die a slow death
Dec 09 19:22:56 <stalane> HP says dev will continue.
Dec 09 19:23:20 <jtrucks> the official press release indicates HP will still have people coding for it
Dec 09 19:23:25 <stalane> but i bet they don't fire any lawyers :-)
Dec 09 19:23:28 <dtzWill> grep_awesome: well we can always help increase the number of devices that can run webos O:)
Dec 09 19:23:35 <dwc-> they'll probably manage the "official" tree
Dec 09 19:23:41 <grep_awesome> dtzWill: yeah I'm excited about that
Dec 09 19:23:59 <grep_awesome> dtzWill: I'm already thinking about a car-puter on my hp mini 210
Dec 09 19:24:04 <grep_awesome> with navit
Dec 09 19:24:10 <dwc-> what'll be neat, but really unexpected, is if we can get the docs on their A6 and the other hardware specs
Dec 09 19:25:09 <dtzWill> LOL http://twitter.com/#!/maryjofoley/status/145220809521250305 (and convo leading to it)
Dec 09 19:25:22 <dtzWill> Humorous timing re:#webos :) RT @maryjofoley Microsoft to allow open source apps in Windows 8 Store: zd.net/vrKwbL #windows8
Dec 09 19:25:30 <dtzWill> response: @wdtz Yes... funny how that happened ;)
Dec 09 19:26:47 <DougReeder> Chromebooks - is their source code open source?
Dec 09 19:27:59 <stalane> DougReeder: Not open
Dec 09 19:28:06 <grep_awesome> DougReeder: sorta http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os
Dec 09 19:28:06 <DougReeder> Bummer.
Dec 09 19:28:23 <stalane> Samsung have closed the hardware spec
Dec 09 19:28:39 <DougReeder> What about Acre?
Dec 09 19:28:54 <DougReeder> Acer, that is.
Dec 09 19:29:07 <stalane> Dunno. There is a french outfit that plays opensource.....
Dec 09 19:29:19 <stalane> thinking of the name :-)
Dec 09 19:29:29 <stalane> Archos
Dec 09 19:31:15 <jrabbit> DougReeder: chromeos is mostly FOSS I don't know what isn't
Dec 09 19:31:16 <dtzWill> destinal: haha hey! :)
Dec 09 19:31:34 <destinal> dtzWill: OSS webos eh?  Is this your fault?
Dec 09 19:31:36 <destinal> :P
Dec 09 19:32:31 <dtzWill> destinal: i wish i could claim that :)
Dec 09 19:32:35 <DougReeder> Sorry to ask so many question, but I'm trying to reduce my search space.
Dec 09 19:32:59 * destinal has been lost in design and assembly of lots of open hardware circuit boards and things for weeks, just realized how long it had been since he'd been around here
Dec 09 19:33:10 <stalane> well ive got to go. congrats where its due! im getting a gsm pixi and a veer next week so ill be back :D
Dec 09 19:35:34 <stalane> http://t.co/ozmUuDdY FAQ
Dec 09 19:36:18 <DougReeder> Wait, Chromebooks use a touchpad, not a touchscreen?
Dec 09 19:36:37 <grep_awesome> yep
Dec 09 19:36:42 <grep_awesome> they are netbooks more or less
Dec 09 19:37:55 <DougReeder> Drat.
Dec 09 19:50:15 <azalyn> holy SHIT, i just heard about the opensourcing of webos news.
Dec 09 19:50:19 <azalyn> :O
Dec 09 19:51:33 <azalyn> i feel like an idiot for not getting an hp touchpad now
Dec 09 19:51:43 <azalyn> not that i've even seen them anywhere..
Dec 09 19:53:57 <destinal> just in time for the refurb firesale
Dec 09 19:55:17 <azalyn> i'm in canada, not sure if they will be around over here. :(
Dec 09 19:55:34 <azalyn> not even sure if they were available last time in canada.
Dec 09 19:56:08 <tdo> we'll have to check which is the license and whether all what's needed is opensourced. I wish it revives the development on the platform!
Dec 09 19:56:45 <azalyn> i would guess either GPL, LGPL, or BSDL. or a combination of those.
Dec 09 19:57:34 <azalyn> this will be great for my palm pre though. i have a first gen one.
Dec 09 19:57:43 <DougReeder> Do I ned special permission to create a page on webos-internals?
Dec 09 19:57:50 <azalyn> has anyone had random reboots with theirs?
Dec 09 19:58:06 <azalyn> mine just seems to shut down at random.. with the battery completely charged.
Dec 09 19:58:08 <azalyn> not sure why
Dec 09 19:58:29 <scoutcamper> DougReeder, on the wiki? yes.
Dec 09 19:58:39 <azalyn> hopefully it's not a hardware problem.
Dec 09 19:59:14 <azalyn> maybe you guys can do crazy stuff now, like use systemd
Dec 09 19:59:21 <tdo> looking forward... means we can create an alternate launcher to e.g. get the smaller icons we could have in 1.4.5....
Dec 09 19:59:47 <azalyn> i'm looking forward to seeing performance enhancements and such
Dec 09 19:59:49 <halfhalo> and crankshaft in node!
Dec 09 20:00:13 <azalyn> and architectural changes to make the whole system more reliable and snappy.
Dec 09 20:01:37 <DougReeder> What's the procedure to create a new wiki page?
Dec 09 20:01:47 <tdo> what i'd like is a faster browser. i've been looking at netsurf web browser for a light alternative, or get a new webkit based (using qt/qml might be easy)... prefox was a nice try, too bad it didn't get continued
Dec 09 20:02:32 <azalyn> if firefox would hurry up and finish their multiprocess stuff.. they could be a viable competitor to webkit.
Dec 09 20:02:38 <azalyn> and might even be much better.
Dec 09 20:02:49 <rwhitby> DougReeder: create an account, get it approved, edit.
Dec 09 20:03:09 <DougReeder> got an account, how do i get it approved?
Dec 09 20:03:21 <azalyn> firefox already has improved *performance* but these are pure benchmark numbers.. in the real world it's still less user responsive.. because the whole thing lags when it's busy doing something.
Dec 09 20:04:51 <scoutcamper> DougReeder, ask rwhitby to approve you
Dec 09 20:05:14 <AMR-1> rwhitby: ? for HP - can you give an example of "HP expects that making webOS open source will accelerate the development of the webOS platform and application ecosystem..."? - ie, Netflix or any of the many other Top 100 Apps we are currently doing withou
Dec 09 20:05:15 <AMR-1> t...
Dec 09 20:05:20 <Mousey> holy crap!
Dec 09 20:05:24 <Mousey> open source?
Dec 09 20:05:32 <Mousey> i just got the link
Dec 09 20:05:34 <Mousey> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/111209xa.html
Dec 09 20:05:36 <azalyn> DougReeder: you must give rwhitby ... a shrubbery.
Dec 09 20:05:40 <Saijin_Naib> i know
Dec 09 20:05:43 <DougReeder> Ni!
Dec 09 20:05:44 * Mousey passes out champaigne and cookies
Dec 09 20:05:46 <Saijin_Naib> its crazy. First impressions anyone?
Dec 09 20:06:01 <Syco54645_work> just read the news
Dec 09 20:06:03 <Syco54645_work> happy
Dec 09 20:06:53 <azalyn> lolz, everyone is coming in here for the news.
Dec 09 20:07:08 <DougReeder> rwhitby, my wiki account is reeder.29  I've made a few small contributuins in the past.
Dec 09 20:07:09 <azalyn> now i feel silly. there must've been like 50 other people before me
Dec 09 20:07:33 <Syco54645_work> iwill be interested to see where it goes
Dec 09 20:07:40 <rwhitby> DougReeder: done
Dec 09 20:07:42 <Syco54645_work> hopefully new devices emerge
Dec 09 20:07:49 <DThought> now the real question is - who will be make ne webos hardware...
Dec 09 20:07:55 <halfhalo> HP
Dec 09 20:07:59 <DThought> (and who will fix my palm pre3 with broken screen)
Dec 09 20:08:05 <DougReeder> rwhitby Thank you!
Dec 09 20:08:06 <destinal> AMR-1: it being open source will put webos on a lot of devices which should drive up contributions both to the core OS and to apps and so on
Dec 09 20:08:23 <Syco54645_work> destinal!!!!! i need webos on my nc
Dec 09 20:08:24 <halfhalo> They just said there is a good chance of new tablets.  Maybe not in '12 though
Dec 09 20:08:32 <Mousey> yAY!!! WebOS on FREERUNNERS!
Dec 09 20:08:33 <Mousey> :D
Dec 09 20:08:39 <linuxjacques> Syco54645_work: me too!
Dec 09 20:08:41 <destinal> Syco54645_work: we've been planning it for a while but now we can even do it legally :)
Dec 09 20:08:59 <azalyn> i have a first gen pre. i'm hoping some fixes go in for better performance/responsiveness
Dec 09 20:09:05 <destinal> only problem is code will take a while to release
Dec 09 20:09:06 <Syco54645_work> destinal: i suppose any device out there will allow it
Dec 09 20:09:10 <Syco54645_work> well within reason
Dec 09 20:09:15 <linuxjacques> webos on my samsung galaxy S II !! well, maybe not for a while
Dec 09 20:09:30 <destinal> Syco54645_work: if the target hardware's not locked down too much
Dec 09 20:09:31 <Syco54645_work> webos on my thunderbolt would be nice
Dec 09 20:09:40 <Syco54645_work> destinal: exactly
Dec 09 20:09:49 <Saijin_Naib> I'm excited to see about getting the latest/greatest webOS versions on the backlevel devices
Dec 09 20:09:52 <rwhitby> Mousey: :)
Dec 09 20:09:53 <Syco54645_work> didnt you get it mostly booting on the nook color?
Dec 09 20:10:02 <Saijin_Naib> webOS 2.3.x on a Pixi+? Hell yes thank you
Dec 09 20:10:15 <Mousey> rwhitby: big hug
Dec 09 20:10:22 <linuxjacques> howdy Mousey
Dec 09 20:10:22 <azalyn> by the way, does the hp touchpad have usb?
Dec 09 20:10:24 <destinal> Syco54645_work: all the way booting except the GUI binary
Dec 09 20:10:26 <Mousey> hi y'all
Dec 09 20:10:31 <Mousey> linuxjacques: i got a touchpad
Dec 09 20:10:31 <azalyn> maybe it would make a good irc machine
Dec 09 20:10:32 <Saijin_Naib> yes of course it has usb
Dec 09 20:10:36 <Mousey> it won't be running android
Dec 09 20:10:39 <Saijin_Naib> are you asking if it has USB host? that i dont know
Dec 09 20:10:39 <Syco54645_work> destinal: shouldnt be hard now then
Dec 09 20:10:40 <linuxjacques> Mousey: sweet
Dec 09 20:10:50 <Mousey> linuxjacques: you gonna be at SCALE?
Dec 09 20:10:58 <azalyn> i could shove irc on there, and use it instead of a netbook.
Dec 09 20:11:01 <azalyn> with a smaller keyboard
Dec 09 20:11:04 <linuxjacques> Mousey: absotively!
Dec 09 20:11:08 <Mousey> yay!!!
Dec 09 20:11:11 <azalyn> my laptop died yesterday :(
Dec 09 20:11:15 <Mousey> i'm going again this year
Dec 09 20:11:17 <azalyn> and i was previously using it for irc
Dec 09 20:11:31 <linuxjacques> Mousey: wanna work the booth? :-)
Dec 09 20:11:32 <Saijin_Naib> i just use wIRC
Dec 09 20:11:35 <Mousey> i've been out of community stuff all year this year. but '12 i'll be back on the scene
Dec 09 20:11:40 * halfhalo wants a full copy of webos source on a flash drive for scale
Dec 09 20:11:43 <Mousey> linuxjacques: you'll have to share me with ka6sox
Dec 09 20:11:44 <Mousey> =P
Dec 09 20:11:52 <DougReeder> TouchPad has usb host but no power
Dec 09 20:11:53 <Mousey> halfhalo: me too!
Dec 09 20:11:59 <Mousey> DougReeder: yes please
Dec 09 20:12:04 <Mousey> USB OTG!
Dec 09 20:12:09 <linuxjacques> Mousey: I'm sure we can work something out
Dec 09 20:12:13 <Mousey> ^_^
Dec 09 20:12:24 <halfhalo> this will either end badly or awesomely
Dec 09 20:12:35 <Saijin_Naib> probably both
Dec 09 20:12:57 <DougReeder> ... or just trail off, that's usually what happens
Dec 09 20:12:58 <halfhalo> last time scale ended in both I needed a new car door
Dec 09 20:12:59 <tdo> GUI binary improvements... now possible!
Dec 09 20:13:07 <destinal> halfhalo: you can have it in time for not this upcoming SCALE but the one after it probably
Dec 09 20:13:15 <destinal> :P
Dec 09 20:13:27 * halfhalo busts out his contact list
Dec 09 20:13:50 <Mousey> the whole destiny of newly open sourced projects ALWAYS comes down to how well the community supports the project.. and how well community management comes down from the parent of the project
Dec 09 20:14:35 <Mousey> the WebOS(-internals) community has been WAY MORE than a stellar steward, so it's up to HP to fsck up the future of WebOS by not encouraging merges and accepting pull requests and forcing people to quit or fork..
Dec 09 20:15:02 <halfhalo> knowing the people behind this, that shouldn't be an issue
Dec 09 20:15:05 <Mousey> other than that, it's up to HP and friends to convince other HW manufacturers to provide support so more high profile software providers will provide software
Dec 09 20:15:27 <AMR-1> is keepin up with the Twitter stream : that is the first time I have heard Andreessen chime in!
Dec 09 20:15:44 <Mousey> well there goes me getting anything done today
Dec 09 20:16:47 <Mousey> AMR-1: whose feed?
Dec 09 20:17:37 <Saijin_Naib> tdo, what improvements are those? Is that stuff like launcher tweaks in the 2.x devices because they use accelerated QT instead of just raw HTML?
Dec 09 20:18:09 <AMR-1> topolsky
Dec 09 20:18:31 <EricBlade> hmm. well, if HP isn't going to put webOS on phones, I hope -someone- will
Dec 09 20:19:10 <AMR-1> rwhitby: ask HP where Ruby is in all this?
Dec 09 20:20:16 <azalyn> like mousey said, i'm not worried about the community aspect. webos-internals has always been awesome.
Dec 09 20:20:53 <azalyn> assuming hp actually gets the code out. the rest should be ok.
Dec 09 20:21:16 <azalyn> even if they make it difficult regarding merges and so on, that's not a problem, webos-internals will likely have it's own repo.
Dec 09 20:21:35 <Mousey> do we know what licensing yet?
Dec 09 20:21:51 <linuxjacques> Mousey: nope
Dec 09 20:21:53 <azalyn> merging back upstream isn't really that important. if hp wants that, then it's their responsibility to pull in the changes.
Dec 09 20:22:03 <Mousey> k
Dec 09 20:23:24 <azalyn> given that android is GPL/BSDL (linux kernel and userland respectively for the most part), and that hp is opensourcing webos likely to make it a better competitor to android..
Dec 09 20:23:35 <azalyn> i'm guessing we might see similar license choices
Dec 09 20:24:32 <scoutcamper> im guessing GPL
Dec 09 20:24:55 <azalyn> libraries would have to be LGPL.
Dec 09 20:25:03 <azalyn> minimum.
Dec 09 20:25:08 <Mousey> what's android?
Dec 09 20:25:55 <AMR-1> can't google pull code from webOS now too tho?
Dec 09 20:26:11 <azalyn> not really.
Dec 09 20:26:21 <azalyn> the two platforms are way too different.
Dec 09 20:26:30 <azalyn> webos could use android stuff
Dec 09 20:26:34 <Mousey> yah, dalvik is the whole thing, all they have is the kernel
Dec 09 20:26:38 <azalyn> like alien dalvik for example.
Dec 09 20:26:44 <azalyn> but not the other way around.
Dec 09 20:26:46 <Mousey> webos is a whole damn linux distro with a custom GUI
Dec 09 20:27:02 <azalyn> yeah, their gui is called 'luna' or something
Dec 09 20:27:21 <Saijin_Naib> webOS gui? Luna. What is Dalvik
Dec 09 20:27:33 <Mousey> dalvik is Googles JVM(tm)
Dec 09 20:27:37 <azalyn> dalvik is the android virtual machine.
Dec 09 20:27:39 <Mousey> everything runs inside of it
Dec 09 20:27:50 <azalyn> not everything. they do have a native sdk now.
Dec 09 20:28:04 <Saijin_Naib> Ahh, okay. Thanks for the clarification
Dec 09 20:28:11 <Mousey> it's tacky
Dec 09 20:28:13 <Mousey> we have cards, dammit
Dec 09 20:28:17 * Mousey waves fist
Dec 09 20:28:19 <Mousey> o/
Dec 09 20:28:22 <azalyn> "alien dalvik" is a port of dalvik to other non-android platforms.
Dec 09 20:28:35 <Mousey> i wish we had a jvm tho.. that'd be nice, i could play minecraft
Dec 09 20:28:39 <Saijin_Naib> Hey, does anyone think that the HP Wave launcher with the "stacks" will be able to be created now that we have OS content?
Dec 09 20:28:40 * Mousey ducks!
Dec 09 20:28:56 <Mousey> good question
Dec 09 20:28:59 <Saijin_Naib> I would LOVE to be able to use that. There is nothing that can beat the multitasking and ease of use of webOS + gesture area. Its unstoppable
Dec 09 20:29:00 <Mousey> it makes me think
Dec 09 20:29:04 <Brybry> I wonder if hp had to pay microsoft a tax to use webos in their devices like android manufacturers have to
Dec 09 20:29:09 <azalyn> the jvm is not binary-compatible with sun's jvm
Dec 09 20:29:10 <Mousey> does this mean we can finally get the HP catalog back in preware?
Dec 09 20:29:14 <azalyn> well.. oracle's
Dec 09 20:29:28 <azalyn> oracle jvm is stack based
Dec 09 20:29:31 <Saijin_Naib> Mousey, this may sound stupid, but what was the advantage of having the HP app catalogue in PreWare?
Dec 09 20:29:34 <azalyn> dalvik is register based
Dec 09 20:29:54 <Mousey> Saijin_Naib: i don't have to have/open both app catalogues, i can reach them all from preware
Dec 09 20:29:56 <Mousey> even the pay stuff
Dec 09 20:30:00 <Mousey> it was way more convenient
Dec 09 20:30:12 <Mousey> plus preware is a better app
Dec 09 20:30:23 <azalyn> i'm still on webos 1.5 i think..
Dec 09 20:30:32 <azalyn> since bell in canada hasn't sent the upgrade.
Dec 09 20:30:38 <Saijin_Naib> 1.4.5 you mean :P
Dec 09 20:30:47 <azalyn> i'm curious, is webos 2 faster?
Dec 09 20:30:49 <Saijin_Naib> Okay, thanks Mousey.
Dec 09 20:30:55 <azalyn> Saijin_Naib: yeah, sorry
Dec 09 20:31:09 * Mousey is a helper!
Dec 09 20:31:24 <Saijin_Naib> Azalyn, I think it depends upon the hardware. I think its heavy on the 256mb RAM devices, but that may be less of an issue now that we have kernel sources
Dec 09 20:31:27 <Mousey> i have sprint, so i'm stuck on 1.4.5, too
Dec 09 20:31:33 <Mousey> but my touchpad isn't! ^_^
Dec 09 20:31:58 <AMR-1> brybry: palms patents predate everyone else's
Dec 09 20:32:09 <Saijin_Naib> Wait, will we now be able to have Palm Profiles greater than the latest Doctor version? Like, I can use a OpenSource 2.x version on my Pixi and actualyl be able to purchase 2.x apps?
Dec 09 20:32:12 <azalyn> well, webos-internals has detailed how you can force an upgrade i believe.
Dec 09 20:32:20 <azalyn> but i've been afraid to try it
Dec 09 20:32:25 <Mousey> can i run my own Palm Profile server FINALLY??
Dec 09 20:32:41 <AMR-1> Mousey:  you should frankenpre2... well worth it
Dec 09 20:32:52 <Mousey> it's creepy to save my personal data on a company i don't work for's servers
Dec 09 20:32:56 <Saijin_Naib> Speaking of Pre2, does anyone want a GSM pre2?
Dec 09 20:32:57 <Mousey> AMR-1: i've read about that just recently
Dec 09 20:33:30 <azalyn> in canada rogers is the only gsm company :\
Dec 09 20:33:48 <azalyn> i would like a 'world phone', but i don't want rogers.
Dec 09 20:33:58 <azalyn> not that bell is that much better of course
Dec 09 20:33:58 <Mousey> rogers rapes american roamers
Dec 09 20:34:00 <azalyn> sigh.
Dec 09 20:34:11 <AMR-1> sanijin_Naib: put it on ebay they go for about $100
Dec 09 20:34:15 <azalyn> all of them are moving to LTE though
Dec 09 20:34:16 <Mousey> now we need an open source cell network.. like the mexican drug gang had
Dec 09 20:34:20 <azalyn> so the future might be better
Dec 09 20:34:35 <Mousey> WiMAX is an open standerd, LTE isn't
Dec 09 20:34:38 <rwhitby> Mousey: App Tuckerbox brings the HP catalog back to Preware
Dec 09 20:34:40 <Mousey> but whatever
Dec 09 20:34:45 <azalyn> Mousey: oh, i know
Dec 09 20:34:48 <azalyn> wimax is desirable
Dec 09 20:34:51 <Mousey> rwhitby: thanks, i make note!
Dec 09 20:35:03 <azalyn> but lte is something we can 'settle' for long term
Dec 09 20:35:09 <azalyn> it will be better than cdma vs gsm
Dec 09 20:35:12 <azalyn> and all that garbage
Dec 09 20:35:21 <Mousey> ugh
Dec 09 20:35:35 <Mousey> we'll see, LTE is a data standard
Dec 09 20:35:42 <azalyn> i want to see wimax take off more though.
Dec 09 20:36:03 <azalyn> would be nice to have chipsets that do both wimax and lte.. that way we could migrate from one to the other.
Dec 09 20:36:06 <Mousey> i wish i could go to Fry's and buy a WiMAX router and just run my own
Dec 09 20:36:24 <azalyn> or chipsets with gsm/cdma/wimax/lte all in one chip :P
Dec 09 20:36:25 <Mousey> that's where WiMAX fell over, no general availability, like with wifi
Dec 09 20:36:57 <azalyn> i'm not sure what prevents such chips from being inexpensive.. patents?
Dec 09 20:37:05 <azalyn> contracts ?
Dec 09 20:37:05 <Mousey> vendor lock-in
Dec 09 20:37:07 <Mousey> margins!
Dec 09 20:37:08 <azalyn> trade secret law?
Dec 09 20:37:12 <Mousey> margins make these things expensive!
Dec 09 20:37:14 <azalyn> probably a bit of everything.
Dec 09 20:37:37 <azalyn> Mousey: yeah but moore's law can apply to integrated circuits in general, not just CPUs.
Dec 09 20:37:44 <azalyn> they should get dirt cheap after awhile
Dec 09 20:38:01 <Mousey> materials are one thing, engineering resources are another
Dec 09 20:38:01 <azalyn> and no doubt all radio standards have enough in common to share some things
Dec 09 20:38:16 <azalyn> materials...? they're made of sand.
Dec 09 20:38:19 <Mousey> just because things get cheaper doesn't make people who can do ASIC design and layout easier to find, or cheaper to pay
Dec 09 20:38:51 <azalyn> yeah but that's just r&d
Dec 09 20:38:58 <azalyn> manufacturing cost is the important thing.
Dec 09 20:38:58 <Mousey> noo
Dec 09 20:39:13 <Mousey> well R&D is the main cost
Dec 09 20:39:40 <Mousey> you can't manufacture without it, and you can't update products or introduce new products without it
Dec 09 20:39:41 <azalyn> r&d is the *initial* cost, it's not the "main" one.
Dec 09 20:40:09 <azalyn> i'm pretty sure patents and contracts are the only thing holding this back..
Dec 09 20:40:14 <Mousey> that *initial* cost has to be paid long after things are in manufacturing. it may cost 30$ for an ipod, but nobody sells them for that
Dec 09 20:40:20 <azalyn> and trade secret law, which could fit in 'contracts'
Dec 09 20:40:40 <Mousey> i'm sure we're both wrong and have no business talking out of our respective asses like this
Dec 09 20:40:56 <Mousey> otherwise, i say lets go into manufacturing, we could at least agree on what os to use ^_^
Dec 09 20:41:10 <azalyn> of course. haiku os.
Dec 09 20:41:13 <azalyn> :P
Dec 09 20:41:16 <Mousey> totally
Dec 09 20:41:29 <Mousey> dual boot amigaOS
Dec 09 20:42:09 <azalyn> freedos smartphones and tablets as far as the eye can see!
Dec 09 20:42:25 <tdo> saiiin: yes that's what I meant
Dec 09 20:42:42 <Mousey> phone.sys
Dec 09 20:42:50 <azalyn> complete with real mode segmented memory management!
Dec 09 20:44:12 <Mousey> wow
Dec 09 20:44:13 <DougReeder> ok, I've created a page, where should i link to it? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Netbook
Dec 09 20:44:22 <Mousey> well it's a good thing zdnet and c|net are all excited about webos
Dec 09 20:44:29 <Mousey> </sarcasm>
Dec 09 20:44:31 <azalyn> and by the way, my point wasn't about *us*... my point is there *are* companies who more than have the resources to design unified chips like this. but they benefit from segmenting the market.
Dec 09 20:44:43 <azalyn> divide and conquer.
Dec 09 20:44:44 <azalyn> etc
Dec 09 20:45:12 <Mousey> yea. i had that same beef back when PC manufacturers started trending towards integrating peripherials on the motherboards
Dec 09 20:45:25 <Mousey> it was GREAT for manufacturers, but crappy for customers
Dec 09 20:46:10 <azalyn> like intel seem to have this habit of not providing virtualization across their whole product line. this isn't because it would cost them more money.. but rather because they want people to have to buy a new cpu if they need virtualization, and suddenly find they can't do it.
Dec 09 20:46:19 <azalyn> where as amd tends to make it available across all their products
Dec 09 20:46:32 <azalyn> even their new amd fusion line
Dec 09 20:46:42 <destinal> DougReeder: what are good ARM netbooks that would be good targets for webos?
Dec 09 20:47:13 <summatusmentis> are there good arm netbooks?
Dec 09 20:47:53 <destinal> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/223918/linux_and_arm_power_new_10inch_netbooks.html   might be good webos targets
Dec 09 20:48:19 <DougReeder> destinal that's why i created the page - to share info. First we need suitable target hardware
Dec 09 20:48:50 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: ping
Dec 09 20:49:11 <destinal> has to be ARM little endian if we're going to run existing binaries, games etc
Dec 09 20:49:20 <DougReeder> We need one with a multitouch touchscreen which narrows the field.
Dec 09 20:49:50 <destinal> DougReeder: well we can add mouse support to webos now too though I agree touchscreen might be nice..
Dec 09 20:50:03 <destinal> and all this now = future now :)
Dec 09 20:50:11 <destinal> I expect code release to take months
Dec 09 20:50:36 <Mousey> yah, the whole licensing thing will be an interesting story
Dec 09 20:50:36 <summatusmentis> yeah, stupid
Dec 09 20:50:44 <summatusmentis> I want a code dump RIGHT THIS INSTANT
Dec 09 20:51:03 <DougReeder> Without a multitouch screen, most apps won't work right.
Dec 09 20:51:22 <destinal> PuffTheMagic_: nice post on twitter
Dec 09 20:51:31 <DougReeder> It's not webos without the multitouch
Dec 09 20:52:02 <destinal> well multitouch trackpad might be fine
Dec 09 20:52:08 <destinal> and mouse
Dec 09 20:53:21 <destinal> so mouse pointer to tap icons on the screen and multitouch gesturing or keyboard and trackpad combinations for zoom in / out, we can do a lot without ts
Dec 09 20:53:24 <destinal> it would still be nice
Dec 09 20:53:47 <destinal> I'm not sure it's the most comfortable way to use a netbook though, poking at its screen
Dec 09 20:53:54 <tdo> we need patience... code dump "in the coming ...."
Dec 09 20:54:07 <destinal> tdo: code dump in the coming years
Dec 09 20:54:38 <tdo> uh...
Dec 09 20:55:29 <destinal> heh months more like
Dec 09 20:56:17 <wrea> I guess I could see the source release with a 3.1 release
Dec 09 20:58:35 <wrea> hey chuqui
Dec 09 20:58:47 <destinal> the interview with meg is awesome, that she's committed to a 4-5 year timeframe of letting it mature in the open source world
Dec 09 20:59:04 <RWings19> 4-5 years is an eternity, though
Dec 09 20:59:18 <Robi_> means funding
Dec 09 20:59:18 <RWings19> this OS needs to make a splash sooner rather than later, I feel
Dec 09 20:59:22 <chuqui> hey
Dec 09 20:59:30 <destinal> RWings19: by that I mean they won't kill it just because it's not the biggest thing in a year
Dec 09 20:59:43 <destinal> I think it will be huge
Dec 09 20:59:52 <RWings19> yeah, which helps...
Dec 09 20:59:53 <PuffTheMagic> summatusmentis, pong
Dec 09 21:00:07 <summatusmentis> Is that your evo that you're tweeting about?
Dec 09 21:00:20 <RWings19> all I know is that I've been waiting for a long time to evolve from a Sprint Pre-, and it looks like the best I can do in the meanwhile is still a FrankenPre2
Dec 09 21:00:22 <PuffTheMagic> yup
Dec 09 21:00:22 <summatusmentis> is it awesome? can I have it?
Dec 09 21:00:29 <PuffTheMagic> its not so awesome
Dec 09 21:00:33 <PuffTheMagic> its beautiful though
Dec 09 21:00:43 <summatusmentis> pretty "not working"?
Dec 09 21:00:47 <PuffTheMagic> non of the controls work
Dec 09 21:00:52 <PuffTheMagic> no hw graphics
Dec 09 21:00:56 <PuffTheMagic> it boots into software mode
Dec 09 21:01:01 <PuffTheMagic> that was about as far as i got with out source
Dec 09 21:01:16 <RWings19> Puff, are you talking about trying to boot webOS on an Evo?
Dec 09 21:01:27 <PuffTheMagic> oh its boots
Dec 09 21:01:31 <PuffTheMagic> tried and done
Dec 09 21:01:55 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: still, awesome proof of concept
Dec 09 21:02:00 <summatusmentis> I expect big things from you
Dec 09 21:08:42 <AMR-1> Splash = they need to get Andreessen and Ruby out there talkin and showin new top 100 Apps ASAP - oink, etc. and at least a couple more from the list of all the other ones we have been complaining about.
Dec 09 21:09:20 <PuffTheMagic> summatusmentis, webos WILL come back to sprint
Dec 09 21:09:49 <AMR-1> and remind everyone there is no "don't sue me" fee or windows license needed with webos.
Dec 09 21:10:02 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: then I think I can justify keeping my sprint pre2 for a while, until I can put it on other hardware
Dec 09 21:10:06 <summatusmentis> so hurry up
Dec 09 21:10:15 <destinal> RWings19: puffthemagic's evo3d http://t.co/FpCx6Ij9
Dec 09 21:10:42 <PuffTheMagic> so it took me about a day to get the userland to boot on a evo, but again that is without and buttons working
Dec 09 21:10:57 <destinal> source to hidd would be huge
Dec 09 21:11:15 <PuffTheMagic> ya once hidd and powerd code is avail this is all trivial
Dec 09 21:11:25 <PuffTheMagic> hw accelerated graphics caused luna to crash
Dec 09 21:11:33 <PuffTheMagic> but we suspect it was because i was using the TP doctor
Dec 09 21:11:40 <PuffTheMagic> and there were hardcoded resolutions
Dec 09 21:11:52 <PuffTheMagic> again, code can fix all these issues
Dec 09 21:11:59 <summatusmentis> how do we get this process expedited?
Dec 09 21:12:09 <PuffTheMagic> that out of our control
Dec 09 21:12:11 <summatusmentis> that is, how do we get what we need to run this on phones
Dec 09 21:12:16 <destinal> summatusmentis: code
Dec 09 21:12:29 <summatusmentis> I mean, yes, but presumably some of the code could be pretty easily released
Dec 09 21:12:33 <PuffTheMagic> but u can bet that as soon as code is available I will be working to get webos on a new sprint phone
Dec 09 21:12:38 <PuffTheMagic> my evo3d to start
Dec 09 21:12:51 <destinal> summatusmentis: graphics code and hidd and powerd especially
Dec 09 21:12:56 <PuffTheMagic> maybe we need a new fundraiser started
Dec 09 21:13:05 <PuffTheMagic> so we can get new non HP hardware to playwith
Dec 09 21:13:22 <destinal> yeah
Dec 09 21:15:32 <AMR-1> to estimate timeframe from outside of HP,e we need d a list of non open parts HP has to replace...
Dec 09 21:16:44 <summatusmentis> I wish they would tell us something
Dec 09 21:19:30 <AMR-1> Chiquita: ha! autocorrect :-P  hey chuq, is senergy part of open source plans?
Dec 09 21:21:01 <summatusmentis> OMG, synergy!
Dec 09 21:21:18 <summatusmentis> I completely forgot about all the backend stuff.
Dec 09 21:21:31 <summatusmentis> imagine running your own synergy servers
Dec 09 21:21:39 <summatusmentis> extended, of course
Dec 09 21:22:33 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: the verge is reporting your evo3d
Dec 09 21:22:46 <PuffTheMagic> ya i saw
Dec 09 21:23:04 <summatusmentis> YOU'RE INTERNET FAMOUS
Dec 09 21:27:58 <azalyn> [15:41:51] <Mousey> yea. i had that same beef back when PC manufacturers started trending towards integrating peripherials on the motherboards
Dec 09 21:28:21 <azalyn> Mousey: well.. depends what peripherals.
Dec 09 21:28:32 <azalyn> i kind of like that my lan is onboard. and my audio.
Dec 09 21:28:57 <azalyn> in the early days it might've been bad though.
Dec 09 21:29:29 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: are there phones that are close to TP specs that would make the evo3d stuff easier?
Dec 09 21:29:52 <RWings19> pretty freakin' sweet, Puff.  I like the prospect for where this could go.
Dec 09 21:30:11 <azalyn> the gpu+cpu merger is also kind of cool in some ways.. but it is feared that it might harm competition.
Dec 09 21:34:54 <PuffTheMagic> summatusmentis, now that source is out it really doesnt matter
Dec 09 21:35:03 <PuffTheMagic> as long as it has an unlocked/unlockable bootloader
Dec 09 21:35:24 <PuffTheMagic> i have no idea how generic their code is
Dec 09 21:35:48 <PuffTheMagic> but for each phone we would need to get buttons, touchscreen, graphics and modem working
Dec 09 21:35:56 <PuffTheMagic> and LTE is an added issue
Dec 09 21:35:58 <summatusmentis> I was thinking short term
Dec 09 21:36:02 <summatusmentis> there's no source right now
Dec 09 21:36:04 <PuffTheMagic> but if they are android most of that code is out
Dec 09 21:36:09 <azalyn> PuffTheMagic: does the evo3d have opensource drivers or something?
Dec 09 21:36:53 <azalyn> i'm not sure how the binary blob driver situation is with phones.
Dec 09 21:36:55 <summatusmentis> I wonder how compatible some of the android stuff is
Dec 09 21:36:56 <PuffTheMagic> the evo3d was identical to the touchpad with the exception of the touchscreen
Dec 09 21:36:56 <azalyn> is it like nvidia?
Dec 09 21:37:13 <azalyn> they use a small opensource glue to link it to the kernel or something?
Dec 09 21:37:22 <azalyn> or are the proprietary drivers userspace?
Dec 09 21:38:08 <PuffTheMagic> the display drivers will be the hardest part
Dec 09 21:38:09 <azalyn> with the original palm pre, i remember hearing that everything was open in kernel mode except for the wifi driver.
Dec 09 21:38:22 <PuffTheMagic> they might dictate parts of the userland
Dec 09 21:38:43 <PuffTheMagic> azalyn, we got opensource wifi drivers working on the pre
Dec 09 21:38:50 <PuffTheMagic> but they didnt work with the binary luna
Dec 09 21:38:56 <PuffTheMagic> that could also change with the source
Dec 09 21:39:04 <azalyn> oh, that is pretty nice then
Dec 09 21:39:09 <summatusmentis> so if nothing else, we might need glue between android components, and whatever webOS uses
Dec 09 21:39:14 <summatusmentis> if it comes down to drivers?
Dec 09 21:39:35 <PuffTheMagic> ehhh
Dec 09 21:39:48 <azalyn> what makes webos special is mostly it's UI i believe.
Dec 09 21:39:53 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: "now that source is out" - you realise it will likely be months before source is released, right?
Dec 09 21:40:02 <azalyn> you could take the android kernel..
Dec 09 21:40:03 <linuxjacques> :-(
Dec 09 21:40:07 <azalyn> and port webos on top
Dec 09 21:40:12 <azalyn> instead of using the webos kernel
Dec 09 21:40:17 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby, did I say "now that source is out"
Dec 09 21:40:25 <PuffTheMagic> i shoudl have said "now that its opensourced"
Dec 09 21:40:32 <PuffTheMagic> but ya i realize its not going to be tomorrow
Dec 09 21:40:33 <rwhitby> "PuffTheMagic: summatusmentis, now that source is out it really doesnt matter"
Dec 09 21:40:35 <bhuey> pretty crazy
Dec 09 21:40:50 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: it sounds like they're gonna open source parts of it as soon as they can
Dec 09 21:41:11 <linuxjacques> I hope so
Dec 09 21:41:12 <azalyn> rwhitby: why exactly is it going to take them so long.. don't they have all the copyrights or something?
Dec 09 21:41:18 <linuxjacques> keep the excitement going
Dec 09 21:41:24 <azalyn> did palm use middleware or something?
Dec 09 21:41:26 <linuxjacques> one major component a week :-)
Dec 09 21:41:28 <azalyn> that would have to be removed?
Dec 09 21:41:38 <linuxjacques> startting with launcher
Dec 09 21:41:44 <summatusmentis> azalyn: they licensed parts of it, and they need to figure out the organizational structure/etc.
Dec 09 21:41:44 <rwhitby> azalyn: governance structure needs to be determined first, for a start.
Dec 09 21:42:00 <rwhitby> then parts for which they do not own the IP need to be replaced
Dec 09 21:42:22 <azalyn> governance? geez..
Dec 09 21:42:25 <PuffTheMagic> azalyn, there are also proprietary parts they need to replace first too
Dec 09 21:42:42 <azalyn> the proprietary stuff i understand, they should certainly remove that..
Dec 09 21:42:47 <azalyn> but 'governance' ?
Dec 09 21:42:52 <AMR-1> we need to know how many parts those are...  do you think they know yet?
Dec 09 21:42:57 <azalyn> you'd think they could just do the bare minimum and then do a code dump.
Dec 09 21:43:04 <azalyn> and figure out the bureaucracy later.
Dec 09 21:43:09 <rwhitby> azalyn: that would ensure failure
Dec 09 21:43:36 <linuxjacques> would be nice if there were some transparency to the process
Dec 09 21:43:59 <linuxjacques> translucency as it were
Dec 09 21:44:11 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: that is key
Dec 09 21:44:18 <azalyn> works for id software when they open their engines.. :P
Dec 09 21:44:32 <azalyn> but whatever, i'm patient. i can wait.
Dec 09 21:44:37 <azalyn> i just hope they don't change their mind.
Dec 09 21:44:38 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: but I would not expect that before the governance is decided
Dec 09 21:44:40 <eliasp> yeeehaw, party time...!1!11!  SCNR ;)
Dec 09 21:45:05 <linuxjacques> azalyn: but Id has no plans to use those engines ever again
Dec 09 21:45:09 <summatusmentis> azalyn: the beaurocracy is important. They have to get the community structure right, otherwise this isn't going to be successful
Dec 09 21:45:57 <azalyn> it seems to me that the community has been fantastic thus far even though hp's efforts thus far have been less than impressive.
Dec 09 21:46:15 <linuxjacques> I agree with that
Dec 09 21:46:18 <summatusmentis> thing is, HP wants to retain some control
Dec 09 21:46:30 <summatusmentis> they're still gonna pay people to work on webOS
Dec 09 21:46:33 <azalyn> webos-internals has been fantastic in the face of such terrible odds.
Dec 09 21:46:33 <AMR-1> if they put Andreessen on this we are golden!
Dec 09 21:46:44 <azalyn> you guys are total badasses. i hope you know that.
Dec 09 21:46:50 <rwhitby> AMR-1: my understanding is that he is Meg's key advisor on this
Dec 09 21:47:03 <summatusmentis> azalyn: and part of that is because rwhitby understood the need for structure/vision originally
Dec 09 21:47:05 <linuxjacques> I imagine they are thinking something like Fedora
Dec 09 21:47:28 <linuxjacques> all major players are RedHat employees
Dec 09 21:47:39 <summatusmentis> I assume something similar
Dec 09 21:47:42 <summatusmentis> or hadoop
Dec 09 21:47:48 <azalyn> summatusmentis: i'm not saying structure and leadership isn't important. i was just saying that the community has been good thus far in finding it's own leadership.
Dec 09 21:47:54 <summatusmentis> or possibly even to an extent android
Dec 09 21:48:05 <summatusmentis> azalyn: that's fine, but this isn't "here, go"
Dec 09 21:48:14 <AMR-1> they will mirror Mozilla (the new one - the one thAt rolls an update every week)
Dec 09 21:48:19 <summatusmentis> this is "here, but we want to be a part, and we have business interests"
Dec 09 21:48:29 <linuxjacques> I assume HP will continue to run forums and will add a SCCS
Dec 09 21:48:51 <linuxjacques> I hope something like git
Dec 09 21:48:56 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: Fedora board has 4 redhat and 5 community, but redhat chairs and has veto
Dec 09 21:48:58 <summatusmentis> I was just gonna say I hope it's not git
Dec 09 21:49:06 <Marcus_> Hi everybody!!!
Dec 09 21:49:08 <summatusmentis> git is clunky
Dec 09 21:49:15 <azalyn> mercurial ?
Dec 09 21:49:17 <AMR-1> well they have to keep the AppCat - unless they switch to AppTuckerBox :-P
Dec 09 21:49:35 <rwhitby> AMR-1: they can license that from me
Dec 09 21:49:39 <summatusmentis> I mean, I'll use git, but I'd prefer something cleaner
Dec 09 21:49:52 <PuffTheMagic> its git or go home
Dec 09 21:50:02 <summatusmentis> I guess webos-internals uses git
Dec 09 21:50:10 <linuxjacques> :-D
Dec 09 21:50:14 <summatusmentis> so assuming they want any form of compatibility, it'll be git
Dec 09 21:50:26 <azalyn> i wonder what this means for 'tizen' though.. at one point they were talking like they wanted a webos-ish platform... they mentioned html5 apps and such
Dec 09 21:50:32 <PuffTheMagic> palm used git inhouse too it hin
Dec 09 21:50:33 <PuffTheMagic> think
Dec 09 21:50:39 <PuffTheMagic> doubt they would switch now
Dec 09 21:50:41 <azalyn> will they just ditch support and back webos?
Dec 09 21:50:42 <summatusmentis> I'd believe it
Dec 09 21:50:43 <azalyn> or what
Dec 09 21:50:55 <azalyn> seems unlikely
Dec 09 21:51:03 <RWings19> Part of me wonders/hopes that maybe Rod is having conversations with the powers at HP about 'what could be' for the future of open source webOS
Dec 09 21:51:40 <linuxjacques> they'd be smart to take his advice, for sure
Dec 09 21:51:43 <Marcus_> me too Rwing
Dec 09 21:52:22 <b-man`> I'm assuming everyone got the awesome news?
Dec 09 21:52:22 <linuxjacques> unfortunately, they probably won't say "Rod, save us!!!"
Dec 09 21:52:23 <rwhitby> RWings19: I'm meant to have a call today, but with the communications team I think.
Dec 09 21:52:51 <linuxjacques> b-man`: what news? something going on?
Dec 09 21:52:52 <rwhitby> RWings19: I've had discussions with Phil Robb (head of open source at HP) on this topic before in person at OSCON
Dec 09 21:52:54 <azalyn> b-man`: no, what news? we haven't heard any news. certainly nothing about webos being opensourced or anything crazy like that.
Dec 09 21:52:58 <b-man`> http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/09/hp-webos-to-live-on-through-open-source-hardware-lineup-still/
Dec 09 21:53:16 <b-man`> :)
Dec 09 21:53:24 <RWings19> In Rod We Trust  :)
Dec 09 21:53:29 <linuxjacques> hehe
Dec 09 21:53:30 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: will you post outcomes of that call?
Dec 09 21:53:37 <b-man`> this made my week :)
Dec 09 21:53:48 <linuxjacques> bah, he's going to tweet it live
Dec 09 21:53:57 <rwhitby> RWings19: http://bit.ly/in-rod-we-trust
Dec 09 21:53:57 <RWings19> At this point I really am hoping for the best - my main worry is fragmentation.
Dec 09 21:53:58 <linuxjacques> (not really)
Dec 09 21:54:18 <linuxjacques> RWings19: I'm sure HP is worried about that too
Dec 09 21:54:29 <azalyn> when i bought my palm pre i said i would not regret it even if it became orphaned. because i was happy with the out of the box experience.. all i wanted was an irc client (and got one, wirc)
Dec 09 21:54:40 <azalyn> even so, i wanted it to succeed. it's been a rough road.
Dec 09 21:54:47 <RWings19> I am still happy with my Pre- about 99% of the time
Dec 09 21:54:48 <azalyn> but this is the best possible outcome i think]
Dec 09 21:54:48 <linuxjacques> but even fragmentation is better than "nobody cared enough to use the code"
Dec 09 21:54:54 <Marcus_> I have a arm dev board laying around and was wandering if someone know what are the Sys requirement  For the hardware  ??
Dec 09 21:55:00 <summatusmentis> RWings19: https://twitter.com/#!/Adora/status/145234463868203009
Dec 09 21:55:27 <linuxjacques> what's it say? (blocked from twitter ehre)
Dec 09 21:55:39 <RWings19> amen to that, summatus
Dec 09 21:55:45 <summatusmentis> "@webosinternals I'm certain it was, and your leadership will be critical to ensure this community doesn't devolve into 'l337 romz.""
Dec 09 21:55:56 <summatusmentis> in response to "One humbly hopes that the way we have run WebOS Internals over the last 2 years has made this decision easier for @hp." by RWings19
Dec 09 21:55:59 <linuxjacques> ah, yes, perceptive
Dec 09 21:56:00 <summatusmentis> err.. rwhitby
Dec 09 21:56:56 <linuxjacques> don't want this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1284
Dec 09 21:57:02 <RWings19> well, I plan to continue using a webOS phone as long as I can find one that will continue to work on Sprint.  Here's to hoping this community continues to thrive.
Dec 09 21:57:12 <linuxjacques> there's like 25 different ROMZ on that page lone
Dec 09 21:57:41 <AMR-1> rwhitby: can you reword that in the format of DKs latest P|C post?  almost as good as the haikus ;-)
Dec 09 21:58:32 <Marcus_> yeah its awful jacques
Dec 09 21:58:56 <summatusmentis> RWings19: PuffTheMagic has said he'll be working to put webOS on sprint phones once the code drops
Dec 09 21:58:57 <azalyn> i just hope the original palm pre is well supported by the future opensource versions.
Dec 09 21:59:03 <azalyn> i can't afford a new phone right now
Dec 09 21:59:38 <linuxjacques> I would hope the Pre- will remain the minimal target
Dec 09 21:59:51 <summatusmentis> or even pixi-
Dec 09 21:59:57 <PuffTheMagic> i dont see newer thatn 1.4.5 on pre or pixi
Dec 09 22:00:08 <PuffTheMagic> maybe some non ui stuff could be backported
Dec 09 22:00:14 <summatusmentis> PuffTheMagic: I suppose that depends on what version gets dropped
Dec 09 22:00:15 <PuffTheMagic> like luna service 2
Dec 09 22:00:26 <Marcus_> right now  i think  webos is a bit chubby!!
Dec 09 22:00:40 <RWings19> yeah, it would be nice to get something later than 1.4.5 on my Pre-
Dec 09 22:01:18 <dwc-> azalyn: for an example of recentish opensourcing and the process, I imagine it'll be similar to sun with solaris
Dec 09 22:02:15 <dwc-> and re: source control, I've seen references in the palm stuff to a subversion.palm.com, but who knows whether they'll switch it when they go more externally
Dec 09 22:02:31 <linuxjacques> that is an interesting point: which version/s of webOS will be released
Dec 09 22:03:00 <summatusmentis> I think it's safe to assume at least 3.0
Dec 09 22:03:03 <summatusmentis> or 3.x
Dec 09 22:03:06 <linuxjacques> yeah, definitely 3.0
Dec 09 22:03:08 <summatusmentis> possibly also 2.2.x?
Dec 09 22:03:44 <dwc-> probably 2.2 if they push that to the veer and pre2
Dec 09 22:03:49 <Marcus_> isnt the 3.0 for tablet only?
Dec 09 22:04:27 <linuxjacques> yes, but maybe not by design
Dec 09 22:05:45 <linuxjacques> from the interview, it does sound like HP is mosly concerned about tablets though :-\
Dec 09 22:08:35 <DougReeder> near as I can tell, 3.0 is optimized for tablets, while 2.x was optimized for phones
Dec 09 22:09:01 <DougReeder> merging them was scheduled for next year
Dec 09 22:09:41 <DougReeder> Dunno if any work on that has been done since August.
Dec 09 22:10:50 <linuxjacques> kinda like android 2/3 -> 4
Dec 09 22:10:52 <DougReeder> It may be up to the open-source community to back-port 3 to phones
Dec 09 22:11:56 <DougReeder> And I'll bet work to make it work on the pre - and plus will be left to the community.
Dec 09 22:12:38 <Marcus_> for sure!!
Dec 09 22:13:45 <shellox> hi
Dec 09 22:14:05 <shellox> it's cool that webos gets open source :)
Dec 09 22:14:31 <Marcus_> the only things i fear is for the patented stuff
Dec 09 22:14:37 <DougReeder> the APIs for 2 and 3 are almost identical -i don't know what the differences are u der eath
Dec 09 22:15:43 <shellox> whats the newest hp smartphone?
Dec 09 22:15:58 <shellox> pre 2?
Dec 09 22:16:00 <dwc-> pre3
Dec 09 22:16:04 <Marcus_> i saw on P|C that  they have to rewrite some api  before releasing it
Dec 09 22:16:27 <DougReeder> not apis
Dec 09 22:16:27 <Marcus_> Pre 3 /veer
Dec 09 22:16:35 <dwc-> pre3, veer, pre2, etc.
Dec 09 22:16:38 <DougReeder> internal components
Dec 09 22:17:26 <shellox> would buy me one additional to my homebrew iphone :P
Dec 09 22:18:07 <aman> Need help in insatlling preware on my tp
Dec 09 22:18:48 <Marcus_> ahh ok @dougreeder
Dec 09 22:19:00 <aman> downloaded .jar file, connected my tp with laptop using the usb
Dec 09 22:19:58 <AMR-1> I'm sure there is something non opensourcable in Novacomm they have to replace or rewrite - they have been really touchy bout that from the beginin...
Dec 09 22:20:49 <Marcus_> @aman => and ??
Dec 09 22:20:56 <geist> no, i wrote novacomd and novacom
Dec 09 22:21:09 <geist> nothing in it should be un opensourceable
Dec 09 22:21:25 <linuxjacques> :-D
Dec 09 22:21:43 <linuxjacques> and bootie ?
Dec 09 22:21:44 <Marcus_> maybe about the  inductive charger
Dec 09 22:21:52 <geist> same. bootie should be fin
Dec 09 22:22:00 <linuxjacques> suh-weet
Dec 09 22:22:02 <Marcus_> or  the TTC
Dec 09 22:22:07 <geist> unless there is code in there from hw vendors that didn't want it open sourced
Dec 09 22:22:13 <PuffTheMagic> geist, do you know if its possible to get usbserial out of a pixi usb port?
Dec 09 22:22:13 <geist> but that being said, it's pretty close to lk anyway
Dec 09 22:22:15 <geist> which is open source
Dec 09 22:22:20 <geist> PuffTheMagic: no
Dec 09 22:22:30 <PuffTheMagic> no its not, or no you dont know
Dec 09 22:22:40 <geist> no it's not
Dec 09 22:22:43 <PuffTheMagic> damn
Dec 09 22:22:55 <geist> usbserial on pre was mostly a function of the omap, pixi is QC based
Dec 09 22:23:05 <geist> i think we used to get serial out of a set of pads on the bottom of the board
Dec 09 22:23:55 <PuffTheMagic> ehh that wont help either, i want to use my pixi to control some simple hw and usbserial was the easiest way
Dec 09 22:24:12 <Marcus_> The only thing missing from pre Hw is tvout stuff
Dec 09 22:24:15 <PuffTheMagic> guess i need to use either usb host on the pixi or make a usb host constroller for the the external device
Dec 09 22:24:21 <geist> right
Dec 09 22:32:12 <shellox> pre3 = EUR 299,89 ?
Dec 09 22:32:16 <shellox> nice
Dec 09 22:32:43 <shellox> but is the os still so slow?
Dec 09 22:34:59 <Marcus_> mine is pretty fast
Dec 09 22:35:12 <Marcus_> what do you mean by slowN
Dec 09 22:35:23 <Marcus_> *slow ?
Dec 09 22:38:04 <shellox> Marcus_: i havent had any web os device until now, but some sites compared it to android and ios and wrote it's slow
Dec 09 22:38:10 <shellox> so i just want to know
Dec 09 22:40:42 <Marcus_> this is a matter of perception; the best thing will be to test it!! but where?
Dec 09 22:51:36 <DMeister-IT> with the opensource project webOS 2.2.4 can be implemented on Pre/Pre+?
Dec 09 22:52:10 <rwhitby> one would expect so
Dec 09 22:54:49 <DMeister-IT> good :)
Dec 09 23:02:42 <Mousey> BACK!
Dec 09 23:02:44 <Mousey> miss me?
Dec 09 23:06:00 <destinal> geist!!!
Dec 09 23:06:18 <destinal> geist: I hope the open sourcing includes bootie
Dec 09 23:06:49 * destinal reads backlogh
Dec 09 23:06:56 <EricBlade> everything should include bootie
Dec 09 23:08:57 <RhapsodyGuru> exciting news today :)
Dec 09 23:09:04 <EricBlade> well will 2.2.4 be open sourced, or will it just be 3.0
Dec 09 23:09:23 <RhapsodyGuru> I thought all versions were going open source?
Dec 09 23:09:44 <dwc-> nobody knows!
Dec 09 23:09:53 <Mousey> it's a mystery!
Dec 09 23:09:58 <dwc-> just sit tight
Dec 09 23:10:00 <EricBlade> i'm certain that very few important questions such as things like that have been answered
Dec 09 23:10:21 <RhapsodyGuru> cool
Dec 09 23:10:28 <dwc-> maybe in the all-hands, but not in the press release
Dec 09 23:10:33 <dwc-> and the all-hands was not very long
Dec 09 23:10:56 <EricBlade> i'm sure many of these have been anticipated, but that doesn't necessarily mean without the rest of the people that were not involved in making the decisions, can they be communicated
Dec 09 23:10:58 <Mousey> and what licensinging?
Dec 09 23:11:02 <EricBlade> i feel like i'm speaking like yoda
Dec 09 23:11:05 * Mousey kant type
Dec 09 23:11:17 <Mousey> like yoda, you are not speaking
Dec 09 23:11:20 <EricBlade> someone said Enyo was leaning towards an Apache 2 license
Dec 09 23:11:27 <EricBlade> the rest i don't think we've got any info
Dec 09 23:11:31 <RhapsodyGuru> that wouldn't be a bad license
Dec 09 23:13:06 <Mousey> apache? why?
Dec 09 23:13:12 <Mousey> i mean, why would it be a bad license?
Dec 09 23:13:23 <Mousey> oy, it wouldn't
Dec 09 23:13:24 <Mousey> nm
Dec 09 23:13:29 * Mousey kant read either
Dec 09 23:13:32 * Marcus_ already seeing the double wave thing on my pre3
Dec 09 23:16:27 * EricBlade waves at Marcus_
Dec 09 23:18:11 <geist> destinal: yep
Dec 09 23:19:40 * Marcus_ wave back at EricBlade
Dec 09 23:19:57 <EricBlade> woo a double wave
Dec 09 23:20:34 <oilsworkn> all the way across the pre3?
Dec 09 23:21:43 <Marcus_> \o/ double  rain-- wave !!
Dec 09 23:48:29 <panel> hello
Dec 09 23:59:48 <LarrySteeze> wow
Dec 09 23:59:55 <LarrySteeze> it's quite a bit more quiet than I expected
Dec 10 00:02:22 <wrea> LarrySteeze, it was way busy earlier
Dec 10 00:02:39 <nebj00la> it'll be busy when the source is out :P
Dec 10 00:07:47 <LarrySteeze> yeah
Dec 10 00:08:01 <LarrySteeze> I still expected quite a bit more activity
Dec 10 00:08:13 <LarrySteeze> especially since puff came out
Dec 10 00:12:02 <bnceo`> sup everyone
Dec 10 00:12:07 <bnceo`> how is everyone's mood?
Dec 10 00:13:43 <LarrySteeze> I'm in a good mod
Dec 10 00:13:44 <LarrySteeze> mood
Dec 10 00:14:13 <panel> :)
Dec 10 00:14:15 <LarrySteeze> but I've always been an OSS advocate...as long as the centralization doesn't disappear
Dec 10 00:15:32 <bnceo`> ya. I hear ya
Dec 10 00:16:50 <LarrySteeze> and the nod from meg whitman about continuing to develop webos hardware is pretty nifty
Dec 10 00:17:09 <bnceo`> Just hope everything goes well in the transition. And that the app catalog remains free of crapware like I know the Android Market has
Dec 10 00:17:26 <bnceo`> the fact that anti-virus programs are sold on the androidmarket is just ugh
Dec 10 00:17:37 <bnceo`> Well, there is where I'm confused at
Dec 10 00:17:53 <bnceo`> Are they saying they suck at carrier relations and can do an HW here and there
Dec 10 00:18:11 <bnceo`> and also, couldn't that tablet compete with other HW companies who would want to do a tablet
Dec 10 00:18:30 <dwc-> LarrySteeze: did you notice the part where it's "maybe" a tablet and "maybe" it'll make 2012?
Dec 10 00:19:00 <LarrySteeze> yes
Dec 10 00:19:50 <dwc-> ok
Dec 10 00:39:44 <joem_> roflmao a hugh jackman touchpad showed up at my dad's door
Dec 10 00:39:55 <LarrySteeze> huh?
Dec 10 00:40:17 <joem_> hp had a contest, like a facebook page, 20 random winners get a touchpad, five of which are signed by hugh jackman
Dec 10 00:40:32 <joem_> 32gb
Dec 10 00:40:33 <bnceo`> hahah
Dec 10 00:40:34 <bnceo`> omfg
Dec 10 00:40:39 <bnceo`> take pics and tweet them
Dec 10 00:40:44 <bnceo`> or link them.
Dec 10 00:40:59 <joem_> definately, i'll have him take photos
Dec 10 00:41:05 <joem_> duno if its signed or just hugh jackman branded
Dec 10 00:41:12 <joem_> wolverine's touchpad... screen is all scratched up
Dec 10 00:41:15 <bnceo`> yeah, curious there
Dec 10 00:41:17 <bnceo`> haha
Dec 10 00:42:08 <acfrazier> http://blog.palm.com/palm/2011/12/whats-next-drumroll-please-hp-is-contributing-webos-to-the-open-source-community.html
Dec 10 00:42:14 <acfrazier> holy crap
Dec 10 00:43:19 <dwc-> well damn, why didn't I win that
Dec 10 00:43:46 <joem_> funny thing is, we did get in on the firesale, between the two of us, we now have 6 touchpads lol
Dec 10 00:44:39 <joem_> and now, with oowebos, they're not toally irrelevant
Dec 10 00:44:43 <joem_> i hope
Dec 10 00:47:02 <panel_gsm> I want to buy one TP on ebay :/
Dec 10 00:47:14 <panel_gsm> but that price
Dec 10 00:47:53 <wrea> Wait for the refurbs?
Dec 10 00:48:07 <panel_gsm> jj
Dec 10 00:48:10 <panel_gsm> yes
Dec 10 00:48:24 <panel_gsm> waitin till sunday
Dec 10 00:48:43 <wrea> I wish I had the money to buy another
Dec 10 00:48:53 <panel_gsm> but I'm little bit afraid
Dec 10 00:49:33 <panel_gsm> my b&n order was cancelled last time
Dec 10 00:50:21 <dwc-> wrea: broken your veer with 2.2.3/2.2.4 yet?
Dec 10 00:50:57 <wrea> I'm not dumb :P
Dec 10 00:51:11 <panel_gsm> :)
Dec 10 00:51:35 <panel_gsm> is there chance to get it official way?
Dec 10 00:51:36 <wrea> I'll either wait for a foolproof way or hope hp will release an update
Dec 10 00:51:53 <LarrySteeze> wrea: you want 2.2.4?
Dec 10 00:53:11 <wrea> Yeah, but not enough to risk bricking my veer
Dec 10 00:53:31 <panel_gsm> me too
Dec 10 00:53:46 <LarrySteeze> who says you have to brick your veer?
Dec 10 00:54:54 <panel_gsm> there are six bricked ?
Dec 10 00:55:16 <wrea> last i cared to look it was at 7 or so
Dec 10 00:55:56 <panel_gsm> yes someone have issue to update modem
Dec 10 00:56:35 <bnceo`> It's not worth messing with the Veer
Dec 10 00:56:42 <bnceo`> too many variables. So easy to fubar it
Dec 10 00:57:03 <panel_gsm> it's too long thread :)
Dec 10 00:57:04 <Fresneda> hi
Dec 10 00:57:04 <wrea> I'm staying way from A6
Dec 10 00:57:26 <Marcus_> its sad that the refurb is only available in the us!!
Dec 10 00:57:57 <dwc-> the modem update sounded safeish
Dec 10 00:58:06 <panel_gsm> hmm
Dec 10 00:58:08 <dwc-> as long as you don't reboot
Dec 10 00:58:14 <dwc-> the A6 update seemed .... hit or miss
Dec 10 00:58:15 <panel_gsm> yes
Dec 10 00:58:29 <dwc-> the modem update sounded not necessary though
Dec 10 00:58:34 <panel_gsm> and what is point of A6?
Dec 10 00:58:43 <dwc-> Tap to share, basically
Dec 10 00:58:57 <dwc-> you could get 2.2.4 with the touchscreen update (which seemed safe)
Dec 10 00:59:16 <Fresneda> i wanna 2.2.4!
Dec 10 00:59:29 <dwc-> I want it on my pre2
Dec 10 00:59:38 <dwc-> I don't care about it as much on my veer.... I don't even use it
Dec 10 00:59:40 <panel_gsm> me too
Dec 10 00:59:50 <dwc-> having it for the pre3 would be nice too
Dec 10 01:00:04 <panel_gsm> trying to update whole day :)
Dec 10 01:00:42 <panel_gsm> dwc-: you have eu version of pre2?
Dec 10 01:00:48 <dwc-> no :(
Dec 10 01:01:00 <LarrySteeze> A6 is fun
Dec 10 01:01:04 <dwc-> but I bet I could tokenize it into one if I get desperate ;)
Dec 10 01:01:35 <panel_gsm> :)
Dec 10 01:01:56 <LarrySteeze> it *IS* possible to unbrick those units, by the way
Dec 10 01:02:14 <panel_gsm> i have eu, but still nothing
Dec 10 01:02:17 <dwc-> I'm sure it is with the proper tools and knowledge
Dec 10 01:02:52 <LarrySteeze> the knowledge exists within this room...
Dec 10 01:03:03 <LarrySteeze> it wasn't me but i remember someone talking about doing it
Dec 10 01:03:03 <dwc-> the guys that make the chips can probably fix it, maybe that guy who used to work on the drivers for the chipset too
Dec 10 01:03:14 <Fresneda> i have eur version of pre2 and not recibe the update
Dec 10 01:03:17 <Fresneda> l3l
Dec 10 01:04:56 <panel_gsm> i have received only strange update to 2.2.1
Dec 10 01:05:15 <panel_gsm> but already was on 2.2.1
Dec 10 01:05:39 <panel_gsm> sorry 2.1.0
Dec 10 01:06:26 <panel_gsm> was on 2.1.0 and received update to 2.1.0
Dec 10 01:07:59 <EricBlade> alright, i'm going to go to sleep. someone blow up my phone if the 2.2.4 update hits NA-Unlocked phones or something else interesting happens
Dec 10 01:08:25 <panel_gsm> heh
Dec 10 01:08:28 <panel_gsm> night
Dec 10 01:08:41 <panel_gsm> i'm going sleep too
Dec 10 01:08:47 <panel_gsm> bye
Dec 10 01:08:49 * dwc- looks at the clock
Dec 10 01:25:19 * Marcus_ tell dwc 2.20 Am
Dec 10 01:26:19 <ka6sox> dwc-, dont' do that ...you will be unhappy @ where the time went.
Dec 10 01:27:47 <joem_> not a hugh jackman signed tp, just one from the contest
Dec 10 01:28:00 <joem_> @bnceo`
Dec 10 01:32:37 <dwc-> ka6sox: I'm at work, and I just got to look into a wonderful bug that ate 4 days of data
Dec 10 01:32:55 <LarrySteeze> ugh
Dec 10 01:33:07 <ka6sox> uh oh....
Dec 10 01:33:28 <dwc-> by wonderous chance, it didn't trigger any of our monitoring (time to fix that too)
Dec 10 01:33:58 <ka6sox> sigh.
Dec 10 01:34:06 <dwc-> could be worse (for me anyways), the data's gone so I don't have to sit here and try to reconstruct it :P
Dec 10 01:34:44 <ka6sox> that would not be fun....
Dec 10 01:34:57 <ka6sox> this is why the memory I use is EDAC.
Dec 10 01:35:23 <LarrySteeze> I don't understand how it simply ate the data
Dec 10 01:35:54 <dwc-> simple version: no more fd -> no new log file at log file rotation time
Dec 10 01:35:57 <Marcus_> a bug or worm??
Dec 10 01:36:06 <LarrySteeze> so it simply stopped logging?
Dec 10 01:36:11 <dwc-> yep
Dec 10 01:36:14 <LarrySteeze> so it didn't eat data
Dec 10 01:36:17 <LarrySteeze> it just didn't create it
Dec 10 01:36:35 <LarrySteeze> not that that helps at all
Dec 10 01:36:43 * dwc- shrugs
Dec 10 01:37:47 <LarrySteeze> no fun regardless
Dec 10 01:38:10 <LarrySteeze> what system failed?
Dec 10 01:40:41 <Marcus_> last thiking before sleeping!!Did you guys(/dunno if there a girl right here ) think" non hp ", webos Hardware ;without the gesture area, will be worth??
Dec 10 01:41:13 <Marcus_> *worth it?
Dec 10 01:41:14 * dwc- doesn't see any non-hp webos hardware
Dec 10 01:41:29 <ka6sox> what? who? where?
Dec 10 01:41:47 <Marcus_> i mean in the future!!
Dec 10 01:41:55 <ka6sox> Marcus_, do you have a TouchPad?
Dec 10 01:42:17 * Marcus_ run to the delorean
Dec 10 01:42:46 <ka6sox> no white line on the road after a DeLorean goes by.
Dec 10 01:42:53 <Marcus_> no ka6sox couldnt get my hands on
Dec 10 01:43:20 <wrea> There is a DeLorean here in town I can steal
Dec 10 01:43:23 <ka6sox> Marcus_, play with a friend's TP and then answer that question.
Dec 10 01:43:41 <LarrySteeze> Marcus_: Did you know that most android phones with capacitive function buttons actually *DO* have a "hidden" gesture area?
Dec 10 01:43:58 <Marcus_> ok i will
Dec 10 01:43:59 <LarrySteeze> many with controllers actually made by the same manufacturer as palm's?
Dec 10 01:44:41 <Marcus_> no larry  i will sleep clever tonight
Dec 10 01:44:51 <LarrySteeze> huh?
Dec 10 01:45:03 <LarrySteeze> well that's a feat in and of itself. I don't think I've ever slept clever.
Dec 10 01:45:40 <Marcus_> i meanbi will sleep less stupid
Dec 10 01:45:49 <LarrySteeze> gotcha
Dec 10 01:46:32 <joem_> there once was webos from nantucket...
Dec 10 01:46:35 <LarrySteeze> it's not the same for every device, but the basic gist of it is that the bottom area of phones like the Evo 3D is set up in a similar way as palm's gesture area
Dec 10 01:46:35 <joem_> we thought it was thrown in a bucket....
Dec 10 01:46:36 <Marcus_> ^^ thank you
Dec 10 01:46:42 <joem_> but we bitched and we whined
Dec 10 01:46:44 <joem_> and then after some time
Dec 10 01:46:52 <joem_> meg said "let's open source it, fuck it!"
Dec 10 01:46:53 <LarrySteeze> it's simply segmented into areas that define specific functions
Dec 10 01:47:27 <dwc-> joem_: you can put taht in the precentral "haiku" thread just for kicks
Dec 10 01:47:35 <LarrySteeze> but really anything with a touch sensitive surface can be turned into a gesture controller...it doesn't always make sense, but it can be done
Dec 10 01:47:53 <LarrySteeze> but like ka6sox mentioned, with webos 3+, it's a non-issue.
Dec 10 01:48:10 <Marcus_> nice to know
Dec 10 01:49:18 * Marcus_ go to sleep "see ya everybody"
Dec 10 01:49:24 <LarrySteeze> adiso
Dec 10 01:49:26 <LarrySteeze> *adios
Dec 10 01:56:31 <netrider> Still trying to get skype on my unlocked Pre3 ...
Dec 10 01:57:05 <netrider> I have followed some instructions found on a precentral discussion board
Dec 10 01:57:58 <netrider> I got all the way to running an ipkg statement in linux to install the files that I found to make the skype account show up on my accounts list
Dec 10 01:58:14 <netrider> after restarting the device, nothing.
Dec 10 01:58:21 <netrider> can anyone help?
Dec 10 02:03:35 <egaudet> webOS on Galaxy SII -> new year's resolution?
Dec 10 02:04:36 <rwhitby> hey egaudet
Dec 10 02:05:02 <egaudet> hey rwhitby how's it going?  Exciting news today
Dec 10 02:06:16 <netrider> rwhitby: got any suggestions?
Dec 10 02:09:25 <netrider> question: typing in the long filename that downloaded with the zip file ... so I renamed them skype1 and skype2
Dec 10 02:09:41 <netrider> finally got the linux statement right
Dec 10 02:09:52 <netrider> seemedt do install ok
Dec 10 02:10:16 <netrider> but didn't work to show me the skype account in my accounts list
Dec 10 02:10:39 <netrider> think that had anything to do with it (renaming the files to something simple)
Dec 10 02:14:27 <dwc-> did you reboot?
Dec 10 02:14:54 <netrider> yes but not immediately after I ipkg'd the files
Dec 10 02:14:57 <netrider> does taht matter?
Dec 10 02:15:29 <dwc-> don't think so
Dec 10 02:15:47 <dwc-> was asking because iirc you have yo reboot before it showed up
Dec 10 02:16:16 <netrider> I'll reboot again
Dec 10 02:17:23 <netrider> wil the skype account be on the available accounts list or will I have to go to the app catalog?
Dec 10 02:17:48 <dwc-> available accounts
Dec 10 02:18:23 <netrider> does the long filename matter?
Dec 10 02:18:36 <netrider> won't it install no matter what the name of the ipk file's name is?
Dec 10 02:19:10 <dwc-> no, maybe?
Dec 10 02:19:55 <netrider> no skype on lthe messaging account list
Dec 10 02:20:28 <netrider> no skype on the main account list
Dec 10 02:20:49 <dwc-> what did you install and how
Dec 10 02:22:03 <netrider> http://forums.precentral.net/hp-pre-3/303094-installing-skype-att-pre-3-a.html
Dec 10 02:22:23 <dwc-> and can you verify the parts installed with ipkg? and are there errors in the logs?
Dec 10 02:22:47 <netrider> I can look and see
Dec 10 02:24:37 <netrider> I don't see the log anymore
Dec 10 02:25:40 <netrider> What will happen if I try to ipkg again with the same files?  any damage?
Dec 10 02:28:47 <joem_> brace yourselves... http://cheezburger.com/View/5541958144
Dec 10 02:45:47 <netrider> dwc: I successfully got ipkg to unpack the long filenames but all the stuff unpacted  is followed by "no such file or directory
Dec 10 02:46:44 <dwc-> unpacked?
Dec 10 02:47:06 <dwc-> what are you doing, exactly?
Dec 10 02:54:29 <netrider> using Xterm to manually type in the following command ... ipkg -force-depends install /media/internal/com.palm.app.skype_1.1-8.3_armv7.ipk
Dec 10 02:54:33 <netrider> and
Dec 10 02:54:53 <netrider> ipkg -force-depends install /media/internal/skype-download_1.0-2_armv7.ipk
Dec 10 02:56:43 <dwc-> don't install the download one
Dec 10 02:56:57 <netrider> ok
Dec 10 02:57:03 <netrider> it won't install anyway
Dec 10 02:57:28 <dwc-> and whats the probem with the other one?
Dec 10 02:59:10 <netrider> the first one starts to unpack a whole bunch of files .. but almost every line it says file no file or directory found
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 10 02:59:56 2011