**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 24 02:59:57 2011
Dec 24 03:00:54 <Compn> ugh
Dec 24 03:01:13 * Compn getting annoyed by web browser unability to set font size or 'fit to width' to avoid horizontal scrolling when zooming
Dec 24 03:27:42 <Abyssul> 30mb connection and this damn website only gives me 88kBps....
Dec 24 03:27:51 <Abyssul> Whats the point?
Dec 24 03:44:15 <PuffTheMagic> scoutcamper, wrea, comments?
Dec 24 03:49:43 <scoutcamper> puffTheMagic, i like it
Dec 24 03:57:19 <wrea> PuffTheMagic, So far I'm liking it
Dec 24 03:57:40 <wrea> Love the vkbd. Makes using a terminal on the tp a much better experience
Dec 24 04:32:42 <PuffTheMagic> scoutcamper, wrea, im working on making it pass the vttests
Dec 24 04:32:58 <PuffTheMagic> once it passes the vt100 tests i will bump it up to beta feed
Dec 24 04:45:41 <ka6sox> PuffTheMagic, which class are you making it pass? VT100, VT102?
Dec 24 04:46:05 <ka6sox> duh...didn't see second line
Dec 24 04:59:23 <PuffTheMagic_> ka6sox: really both vt100 and vt102
Dec 24 04:59:33 <PuffTheMagic_> i will work on the advanced xterm stuff later
Dec 24 05:00:32 <PuffTheMagic_> ka6sox: if u give me your box.net email i can add you to the ipk folder
Dec 24 05:05:05 <ka6sox> let me find it
Dec 24 05:07:11 <summatusmentis> I've asked this a couple times, I'm starting to assume "no", but is it possible to change the webOS limit on how much websites can store locally?
Dec 24 05:12:11 <ka6sox> you mean local web cache?
Dec 24 05:23:29 <summatusmentis> ka6sox: umm... it's not cache, I don't think
Dec 24 05:23:38 <summatusmentis> HTML5 local storage
Dec 24 05:25:06 <ka6sox> this is for things you look @ on the net or things that are locally generated on the device?
Dec 24 05:27:08 <Abyssul> Anyone else have a Pre2 with 2.2.4?
Dec 24 05:27:32 <summatusmentis> specifically, it's for an iphone-spoofed veer to be able to use the Google Music local site
Dec 24 05:27:45 <summatusmentis> in general, it's for things on the net, trying to use local storage that HTML5 exposes
Dec 24 05:27:46 <Abyssul> nvm
Dec 24 05:27:51 <summatusmentis> Abyssul: I do
Dec 24 05:27:54 <summatusmentis> but it's not on right now
Dec 24 05:28:19 <Abyssul> I thought the browser was acting up, but it fixed itself
Dec 24 05:28:37 <dwc-> that's webos for ya
Dec 24 05:29:05 <Abyssul> It had some graphical glitch with the URL bar
Dec 24 05:29:22 <Abyssul> but swiping it away and opening it back up fixed it
Dec 24 05:30:05 <summatusmentis> ka6sox: I'm pretty sure the Google Music site is trying to use websql of some sort
Dec 24 05:32:13 <PuffTheM1gic_> i wish i knew how to use irssi
Dec 24 05:32:18 <Abyssul> Where is this photo app finding all these album covers?!?  Is it looking at the mp3's directly?
Dec 24 05:32:53 <dwc-> irssi: it's migic
Dec 24 05:33:30 <PuffTheM1gic_> what is alt uswd for in irssi
Dec 24 05:34:33 <summatusmentis> PuffTheM1gic_: switching between windows, normally
Dec 24 05:34:47 <PuffTheM1gic_> how
Dec 24 05:35:58 <PuffTheM1gic_> wht i am really getting at is what should alt keys map to in  teminal
Dec 24 05:37:44 <dwc-> alt-n/p
Dec 24 05:37:48 <dwc-> scrolls
Dec 24 05:38:13 <dwc-> alt - 1 through 0 etc = switch to window 1-10
Dec 24 05:38:38 <dwc-> why shouldn't alt just be alt?
Dec 24 05:39:20 <PuffTheM1gic_> idk what that means
Dec 24 05:40:08 <PuffTheM1gic_> all keys need to send somthing to the tty
Dec 24 05:40:28 <PuffTheM1gic_> when a modifier like alt is pressed itdoesnt though
Dec 24 05:40:52 <dwc-> why does it have to send something to the tty?
Dec 24 05:40:54 <PuffTheM1gic_> it modifies what the subsequent key sends
Dec 24 05:41:25 <dwc-> so it's an on/off toggle
Dec 24 05:41:42 <PuffTheM1gic_> like ctrl a send x01
Dec 24 05:41:45 <augiedoggie> iirc, some terminals send esc+key when alt is used
Dec 24 05:42:09 <PuffTheM1gic_> hmmm ok
Dec 24 05:42:20 <PuffTheM1gic_> that could be it
Dec 24 05:43:06 <dwc-> look at your xterm though, that's not always right (it's configurable)
Dec 24 05:43:46 <PuffTheM1gic_> well i will add config later
Dec 24 05:46:43 <PuffTheM1gic_> quit
Dec 24 06:41:12 <antijingoist> any docs on packaging somethnig for preware?
Dec 24 06:45:31 <ka6sox> antijingoist, look @ the hello app in the git repo
Dec 24 06:45:43 <ka6sox> that shows you what peices you need
Dec 24 06:45:52 <antijingoist> THanks! will do
Dec 24 06:45:55 <ka6sox> git.webos-internals.org
Dec 24 06:46:05 <ka6sox> (for now)
Dec 24 07:01:21 <antijingoist> I think that's exactly what I needed. Thanks ka6sox! Pity there isn't a doc for it atm.
Dec 24 07:04:29 <rwhitby> antijingoist: feel free to write one for us
Dec 24 07:04:43 <rwhitby> if you don't then you know why there isn't one ;)
Dec 24 07:04:59 <antijingoist> haha. Maybe I will once I know what I'm doing. :)
Dec 24 07:05:44 <rwhitby> that's why all the others said ...
Dec 24 07:05:53 <rwhitby> s/why/what/
Dec 24 07:05:55 <infobot> rwhitby meant: that's what all the others said ...
Dec 24 07:06:16 <antijingoist> oh... thats almost depressing.
Dec 24 07:06:42 <ka6sox> antijingoist, yes, it is...
Dec 24 07:07:46 <rwhitby> the fact is that the code never gets out of date (cause it doesn't work if it does), but documentation is never kept up to date
Dec 24 07:12:26 <antijingoist> would it be frowned upon if I created a new page on the wiki right now for it with a link to the hello app?
Dec 24 07:16:41 <ka6sox> there isn't a page for the hello app curently?
Dec 24 07:17:09 <ka6sox> guess not
Dec 24 07:17:36 <ka6sox> sure...just call it something having to do with learning what is what and goes where.
Dec 24 07:19:53 <antijingoist> so, for clarification, anything in pmPostInstall.script runs after install?
Dec 24 07:22:37 <ka6sox> << Infra Guy, I just try to keep things working :D
Dec 24 07:32:29 <antijingoist> goodness. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_webOS_IPKG_Installer
Dec 24 07:33:10 <antijingoist> 4 hours of searching and I found that with the term "ipk windows"
Dec 24 07:35:22 <ka6sox> then I would add a couple of redirects from the other terms we talked about.
Dec 24 07:36:32 <ka6sox> this looks like novatool.
Dec 24 07:36:38 <ka6sox> but I may be wrong
Dec 24 07:40:44 <antijingoist> I think it might be too early in the morning for me to figure it out. :D
Dec 24 07:41:01 <antijingoist> if novatool == tutorial link
Dec 24 07:44:04 <rwhitby> antijingoist: that page is way out of date.
Dec 24 07:44:50 <rwhitby> antijingoist: I would not recommend using any information from that page
Dec 24 07:46:03 <antijingoist> thanks! I was about to
Dec 24 08:10:05 <antijingoist> hrm. what directory is the postinstall script relative too?
Dec 24 08:11:37 <ka6sox> it lives @ the top level
Dec 24 08:21:31 <antijingoist> *facepalm* it was a typo. :P thanks for your help guys!
Dec 24 08:22:34 <antijingoist> okay, so, I've been awake for almost 30 hours now. so after some sleep I'll make a 'creating an ipk' page on the wiki.
Dec 24 08:22:42 <antijingoist> thanks!
Dec 24 08:40:49 <ka6sox> nite and thanks.
Dec 24 08:42:04 <rwhitby> ka6sox: ping?
Dec 24 09:08:33 <SammyF> morning
Dec 24 09:09:18 <SammyF> how can i disable the webos keyboard in xecutah?
Dec 24 09:23:30 <sammyf> hello there, is there a way to disable the webos internal keyboard when running ubuntu-chroot with Florence?
Dec 24 09:23:51 <rwhitby> use Tweaks
Dec 24 09:23:55 <antijingoist> use tweaks -> category system
Dec 24 09:25:11 <sammyf> rwhitby: yeah, that's what stands on the xecutah screen, but what/where IS tweaks ?
Dec 24 09:25:21 <rwhitby> in Preware of course
Dec 24 09:25:30 <rwhitby> type to search
Dec 24 09:25:39 * sammyf must be blind ... checking again
Dec 24 09:25:42 <sammyf> thanks
Dec 24 09:26:14 <rwhitby> don't check, type to search
Dec 24 09:26:34 <sammyf> rwhitby: yep. found it. thanks. I guess I mistyped earlier
Dec 24 09:57:53 <ice8lue> merry christman!
Dec 24 09:58:06 <ice8lue> ;) or christmas
Dec 24 09:59:44 <rwhitby> works either way
Dec 24 10:06:32 <acfrazier> so is the webos source out yet
Dec 24 10:06:41 <acfrazier> I check github all the time but I'm not sure that's legit anymore
Dec 24 10:07:21 <ka6sox> acfrazier, do you really expect something as complicated as webOS is to be released in under a month after the announcement?
Dec 24 10:07:49 <acfrazier> I realize they probably have a metric ton of source cleanup to do
Dec 24 10:08:00 <acfrazier> but at least they could say 'hey we're still working on it'
Dec 24 10:08:05 <ka6sox> that would be an accurate assessment.
Dec 24 10:08:43 <ka6sox> they are under no timeline from the outside world to release anything on our (the outside world's) timeline
Dec 24 10:08:58 <ka6sox> s/1st timeline to be obligation.
Dec 24 10:09:15 <acfrazier> I dunno, 'the near future' is very vague and implies that it'll happen pretty quick
Dec 24 10:09:18 <ka6sox> they will do it when they are darned good an ready.
Dec 24 10:09:24 <acfrazier> that's what it says in the press release
Dec 24 10:09:30 <ka6sox> in galactic time? quick
Dec 24 10:09:39 <ka6sox> in internet time? months late
Dec 24 10:10:30 <ka6sox> I expect it to come out in dribbles and drabs...as things are cleared.
Dec 24 10:10:34 <rwhitby> acfrazier: that phrase means 90 days to a CEO
Dec 24 10:10:57 <acfrazier> but yeah, it's not like they can just initialize the git repository and push out what they have, trade secrets and all that fun stuff have to be stripped and made to work in an open source fashion
Dec 24 10:11:15 <ka6sox> acfrazier, which git repository are you referring to?
Dec 24 10:11:25 <acfrazier> the one presently on github
Dec 24 10:11:38 <acfrazier> https://github.com/hpwebos/webos
Dec 24 10:11:43 <ka6sox> um....have you seen the comments?
Dec 24 10:11:55 <acfrazier> the issues? yes, it's people trying and failing to be funny
Dec 24 10:11:58 <ka6sox> its like a joke...
Dec 24 10:12:06 <ka6sox> who says its even them.
Dec 24 10:12:16 <ka6sox> (the company)
Dec 24 10:12:44 <rwhitby> well, since all that has happened so far is an announcement of an *intention* to open source webOS at some time in the future, I think you need to adjust your timeframe expectations
Dec 24 10:13:37 <rwhitby> like, maybe wait for an announcement of which license they are going to release it under, and who is going to be leading the open sourcing project, before looking for a github commit ...
Dec 24 10:13:59 <acfrazier> but I mean, why did they even make the repository
Dec 24 10:14:10 <acfrazier> if they are going to leave it empty for three months
Dec 24 10:14:46 <acfrazier> it just doesn't make sense to me at all
Dec 24 10:15:22 <rwhitby> you realise anyone can create a github account with any name, right?
Dec 24 10:15:32 <acfrazier> I do
Dec 24 10:15:48 <ka6sox> and what makes you believe that is the company repository?
Dec 24 10:15:55 <acfrazier> but I'd think HP would've done something about it if it weren't
Dec 24 10:16:12 <rwhitby> maybe they think it's funny
Dec 24 10:16:19 <ka6sox> :D
Dec 24 10:16:24 <acfrazier> but I agree with you
Dec 24 10:16:40 <acfrazier> they effectively paid 1.2 billion dollars for palm and then are giving away all of it for free
Dec 24 10:16:51 <acfrazier> they don't have to
Dec 24 10:16:56 <acfrazier> but they are
Dec 24 10:17:33 <ka6sox> giving it away is not quite what going "open source" means.
Dec 24 10:17:46 <ka6sox> they still hold the copyrights
Dec 24 10:17:54 <acfrazier> depends on the license they decide to release it under
Dec 24 10:18:15 <ka6sox> its a safe bet it wont' be GPLv3
Dec 24 10:18:18 <acfrazier> if it's GPL, then that's effectively 'giving it away'
Dec 24 10:18:19 <acfrazier> yeah
Dec 24 10:19:16 <ka6sox> so all I am saying is...give them time, and don't expect a whole lot of hand holding of the "community" on their part.
Dec 24 10:20:08 <acfrazier> but I mean, they express the fact that they think doing this will allow people like myself and other developers to contribute
Dec 24 10:20:09 <ka6sox> given the number of people we have read they have lost over the last 3 months...expect there to be a LOT of work to make this happen on the company's sidee
Dec 24 10:20:28 <acfrazier> but if I don't know what's going on it's sort of.. hard
Dec 24 10:20:36 <ka6sox> again, internet time is a reality distortion field.
Dec 24 10:21:14 <ka6sox> I do compliance for some of my clients...its a PITA to get right
Dec 24 10:22:29 <ka6sox> I would not want the job of clearing all the bits of webOS to make them available.
Dec 24 10:22:53 <ka6sox> luckily I use mostly OE things, so that makes it easier.
Dec 24 10:23:35 <ka6sox> right now everyone is in hide and watch mode.
Dec 24 10:23:59 <ka6sox> what date was the announcement?
Dec 24 10:24:57 <ka6sox> 9december...
Dec 24 10:25:44 <ka6sox> 16days (including weekends)
Dec 24 10:26:42 <ka6sox> and really more like 12 work days from the announcement...
Dec 24 10:28:45 <acfrazier> recently the days have just been running into one another for me
Dec 24 10:28:49 <acfrazier> so it feels like years
Dec 24 10:29:27 <ka6sox> acfrazier, same here...but every once in a while I have to stop and get a reality check...see if it bounces.
Dec 24 10:30:00 <ka6sox> working with the entire codebase of a FULL OS is not the same as working with iphone games.
Dec 24 10:45:50 <sammyf> hmm.. anybody has ubuntu installed and got sound working correctly? when I try to listen to something in the standard music player I don't get any sound, and in audacious Luna reboots after a couple of seconds of actual sound
Dec 24 11:30:37 <panel> merry christmas to everyone
Dec 24 19:06:39 <antijingoist> lol. I don't have perms to add a page. created it here instead: http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-development/309263-packaging-ipk-s-webos.html#post3271441
Dec 24 19:06:44 <antijingoist> with all I knew.
Dec 24 19:36:15 <PatrickC> anyone in here have a pre2 on 2.2.4? preferably one on sprint?
Dec 24 19:36:21 <PatrickC> rwhitby: ping
Dec 24 20:40:54 <PatrickC> i guess ill see if this thing works :)
Dec 24 20:44:04 <PatrickC> its booting! lets see if it works
Dec 24 20:45:11 <PatrickC> umm.. actually not sure if this is done.. doctor is at 62% but the phone shows the HP logo?
Dec 24 20:48:40 <PatrickC> it worked? cool
Dec 24 20:51:51 <PatrickC> just ran the stock WR 2.2.4 doctor on my Sprint Pre2
Dec 24 22:29:40 <LunohoD> is there a built-in font in the Xsdl?
Dec 24 22:33:44 <ka6sox-away> LunohoD, there is a default one.
Dec 24 22:33:53 <ka6sox-away> I can't remember what it is.
Dec 24 22:34:26 <LunohoD> ka6sox-away: I wonder how to use another font with xterm
Dec 24 22:34:44 <LunohoD> will -fn option work?
Dec 24 22:35:17 <ka6sox-away> LunohoD, yes, you can add that to the call to launch xterm
Dec 24 22:35:27 <ka6sox-away> thats what I do because I can't read it otherwise
Dec 24 22:35:35 <ka6sox-away> both fontname and size
Dec 24 22:35:52 <ka6sox-away> I am hoping to get that into tweaks in the new year.
Dec 24 22:35:59 <ka6sox-away> so it will be settable.
Dec 24 22:36:16 <LunohoD> where the font file should be placed?
Dec 24 22:37:58 <ka6sox-away> I am just pointing to the system font directory and using those fonts.
Dec 24 22:38:15 <ka6sox-away> the ttf ones iirc
Dec 24 22:38:24 <LunohoD> cool, thanks
Dec 24 22:39:57 <ka6sox-away> if I understood how to do tweaks I'd fix it up, but no good at that stuff.
Dec 24 22:45:52 <ka6sox-away> maybe dtzWill will add the necessary bits to the xterm call.
Dec 24 22:55:03 <wrea> hmmm, tp randomly rebooted
Dec 24 23:17:42 <jcsullins> wrea: any chance you were using usb host?
Dec 24 23:18:01 <wrea> nope
Dec 24 23:18:13 <wrea> Havent messed with that since 3.0.2
Dec 24 23:18:49 <jcsullins> ok, just wondered, that's where I've noticed some random reboots
Dec 24 23:20:01 <wrea> I'll look into it if it happens again
Dec 25 00:00:08 <PatrickC> whos the wiki editor?
Dec 25 00:00:18 <scoutcamper> PatrickC, wiki editor?
Dec 25 00:01:04 <PatrickC> the main person over the wiki
Dec 25 00:01:11 <dwc-> ka6sox-away: sounds like a good thing to have.  I've added -rv to mine personally
Dec 25 00:01:12 * PatrickC should have looked at the Who's who page first
Dec 25 00:01:56 <PatrickC> hmm.. someone ive never seen on here according to the WhoIsWho page on the wiki
Dec 25 00:02:04 <dwc-> "main person" ... is that by edit counts?
Dec 25 00:03:25 * PatrickC found what he was looking for
Dec 25 00:05:52 * PatrickC is making his first wiki page and was looking for a resource that had all the editing helps in it
Dec 25 00:06:01 <PatrickC> s/is/was/
Dec 25 00:10:02 <dwc-> there's an editing help on the wiki
Dec 25 00:10:14 <dwc-> also, all of the wikipedia/wikimedia stuff applies
Dec 25 00:10:20 <dwc-> well, almost all
Dec 25 00:10:37 <dwc-> you don't need to speak to the person who set it up for that
Dec 25 00:10:50 <PatrickC> dwc-: yep. found the editing help page. exactly what im looking for
Dec 25 00:11:32 <PatrickC> is there a way to save a page so someone can look at it to make sure its fine before posting it?
Dec 25 00:12:07 <dwc-> copy it to a page in your userspace
Dec 25 00:13:58 <PatrickC> ok
Dec 25 00:14:30 <dwc-> you can also use the article's talk page to ask for feedback, but I'm not sure anyone watches those
Dec 25 00:14:59 <PatrickC> im writing a wiki page on how to get MAP bluetooth on legacy devices
Dec 25 00:15:13 <PatrickC> 1.4.5 devices don't work yet. 2.1 only for now
Dec 25 00:32:39 <PatrickC> if someone wants to take a look at it to make sure the instructions are straight forward, give it a go http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/User:Patrickc
Dec 25 00:38:29 <ka6sox-away> PatrickC, you know what you should get for christmas?
Dec 25 00:38:38 <ka6sox-away> Google Search lessons :P
Dec 25 00:38:43 <PatrickC> lol
Dec 25 00:39:05 <scoutcamper> from ebay professor video dvd guys
Dec 25 00:39:10 <scoutcamper> :p
Dec 25 00:39:34 <PatrickC> does the wiki page look good? and is it easy to follow?
Dec 25 00:41:47 <ka6sox-away> you sound like my mother-in-law @ christmas dinner...."Is it good? I know it is" :P
Dec 25 00:41:53 <PatrickC> lol
Dec 25 00:42:01 <PatrickC> i just want to make sure its easy to follow :P
Dec 25 00:43:40 <PatrickC> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/MAP_Bluetooth_Legacy_Devices decided to post lol
Dec 25 00:48:01 <PerfectLogic> it sounds simple enough to me. maybe giving a little more background on using the meta-doctor could profit less webos-savy people
Dec 25 00:55:18 <scoutcamper>  PatrickC, you assume that i am using a gui on my linux laptop
Dec 25 00:55:51 <PatrickC> scoutcamper: hmm.. im guessing thats referring to where i said to move the file and to extract the tar?
Dec 25 00:57:02 <scoutcamper> yes
Dec 25 00:58:29 <PatrickC> hmm.. well, i would assume that most people would have a GUI, and if you didn't then you would know the relevant commands.. but do you think i should update it to include the command line commands to do the stuff?
Dec 25 00:58:57 <scoutcamper> yes i do
Dec 25 00:59:47 * PatrickC goes to edit them
Dec 25 01:01:34 <dwc-> I assume people without a gui should know what they're doing =]
Dec 25 01:02:14 <PatrickC> dwc-: exactly what i said :)
Dec 25 01:02:21 <scoutcamper> assume nothing
Dec 25 01:02:59 <dwc-> tough for them
Dec 25 01:04:36 <PatrickC> scoutcamper: the thing is, how do i know where they downloaded the getbt script to?
Dec 25 01:05:39 <scoutcamper> PatrickC, just put all the commands in there for being in the same dir as the getbt
Dec 25 01:06:00 * scoutcamper is playing devils advocate since rwhitby isnt arround
Dec 25 01:06:09 <PatrickC> the getbt needs to be moved to the scripts/ directory
Dec 25 01:06:22 <PatrickC> so i need to know where they put the meta-doctor directory
Dec 25 01:06:23 <scoutcamper> then write the command from there
Dec 25 01:06:40 <dwc-> make sure you teach them how to get there and what a directory is
Dec 25 01:06:46 <scoutcamper> use <your/meta-doctor/dir/here>
Dec 25 01:12:13 <PatrickC> scoutcamper: how do you move a folder to a USB device from the command line? never had to do it
Dec 25 01:12:55 <scoutcamper> cp <whaterv file src here> /media/somedevicenumberhere
Dec 25 01:13:12 <scoutcamper> the somedevicenumberhere can be autofilled with the tab key
Dec 25 01:13:28 <PatrickC> ok, so just /media/<tab> would work?
Dec 25 01:13:48 <PatrickC> in a general manner..
Dec 25 01:13:58 <scoutcamper> assuming they only have 1 external drive hooked up, yes
Dec 25 01:16:37 <dwc-> that's going to be *highly* dependent on their distribution
Dec 25 01:16:50 <dwc-> my drives end up under /mnt =]
Dec 25 01:17:20 <dwc-> but on my personal desktop, they don't even automount, so...
Dec 25 01:18:52 <scoutcamper> thats entirely true
Dec 25 01:27:37 * PatrickC wonders if general instructions will be good enough
Dec 25 01:27:39 <PatrickC> ?
Dec 25 02:25:02 <bhuey> folks
Dec 25 02:25:08 <PatrickC> hey bhuey
Dec 25 02:25:18 <bhuey> hey
Dec 25 02:40:11 <PatrickC> hmm.. i hate it when my code should work but doesnt :/
Dec 25 02:43:35 <stalane> has anyone unlocked a GSM at&t veer?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 25 02:59:57 2011