**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 21 02:59:58 2013 Mar 21 07:50:35 what, no way, dtzWill is here >:| Mar 21 07:51:12 * csc` is still waiting on a reply from him in regards to building X11 applications on-board webOS that will run in his card implementation Mar 21 08:31:51 just bought a original pre w/ broken screen for $5 w/ free shipping. probably the cheapest ARM dev board w/ wifi imaginable ... not that I really need it but you never know :) Mar 21 08:39:23 destinal, yeah the devices are amazing for an embedded linux system Mar 21 08:39:39 destinal, everyone who i brag to about my phone always attacks it for what it was released as, and not what us power users have made it into Mar 21 08:41:48 someone i know loathes webos because he didnt bother homebrewing his Pre2 Mar 21 08:42:05 "I shouldn't have to" is his excuse =3 Mar 21 08:42:46 I hope a buddy of mine whom i got a 60' DLP from finds his original sprint pre for me to break Mar 21 08:43:37 csc`: I know cross-channel traffic but this may be a better place to talk about recovering bricked pixis like your... I wonder if there's some key that gets the hardware to boot into a debug (burned) bootloader like the Motorola Devour which uses the same system-on-chip as the pixi. there's a tool called "RSD Lite" and these "SBF" files used on said devour and other motorola android... Mar 21 08:43:38 ...devices.. I wonder... so much we haven't documented about the qualcomm webos hardware Mar 21 08:44:29 meh Mar 21 08:45:00 like i said, im open to offer it up to the homebrew scene to break even more, or if someone needs parts for a pixi Mar 21 08:45:31 aside from a few smudges and smears the LCD works, and i'd presume the touchscreen should too Mar 21 08:45:41 csc`: re your buddy.. IMO pre2 is even now a solid phone Mar 21 08:46:00 destinal, yeah but theres not much difference between a pre+ and a pre2/3 is there :P Mar 21 08:46:17 besides clock speed, and a pre+ can go up to 1ghz, the stock speed of the pre 2 Mar 21 08:46:31 pre3 was alright too but qualcomm and stole some of the RAM back Mar 21 08:46:52 mine does fine at 748 Mar 21 08:47:11 i found that a good middle point when i developed the ubersaver profile for my pixi Mar 21 08:47:23 i wish screenstate2 was supported in uberkernel for the pre though Mar 21 08:49:24 i really see no point in upgrading to 2.2.4 on my pre Mar 21 08:49:44 flash isnt that big of a deal, and from what i've heard, i could lose my palm profile to the bowels of HP hell Mar 21 08:52:06 it just me or is the web patch frontend not displaying ALL the patches available Mar 21 08:52:28 or is that because some are in the beta and alpha feeds Mar 21 08:54:05 hmm, could be, yeah Mar 21 08:54:37 im looking for a patch i had on my pixi, it enabled a 3g/2g slider in the phone prefs Mar 21 08:54:44 have any idea what its called or where its at? Mar 21 08:56:50 csc`: hmm I thought that was always there under preferences, network Mar 21 08:58:58 destinal, nope. Mar 21 08:59:05 csc`: or hmm maybe that's the one that AT&T disabled. you on ATT? Mar 21 08:59:23 yep Mar 21 08:59:23 but not on their network Mar 21 08:59:43 i had it on the pixi, dunno why i cant find it on the pre+ in preware Mar 21 08:59:55 then again i did have the beta and alpha feeds Mar 21 09:00:10 csc`: "Toggle 3G in Device Menu" Mar 21 09:00:11 destinal, Preware 2 confirmed to run mostly fine on 1.4.5? Mar 21 09:00:31 http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-patches/225494-switch-between-2g-3g-auto-device-menu.html Mar 21 09:00:41 isnt that the top menu? Mar 21 09:01:09 csc`: "Displays a submenu in device menu to switch network type between 2G, 3G or Auto" Mar 21 09:01:12 is on patches portal Mar 21 09:01:42 oh yeah that is top bar, nm Mar 21 09:02:24 yeah the one i had installed was the actual phone settings Mar 21 09:02:59 if preware 2 will run mostly fine on 1.4.5, ill go through the trouble of enabling testing feeds and help out with debugging Mar 21 09:03:03 csc`: yeah looks like everyone but ATT gets that stock, not sure what it took to reenable it for ATT folks Mar 21 09:03:25 some patch in the beta/alpha feed metinks Mar 21 09:03:36 the pixi was At&t too Mar 21 09:04:27 csc`: no idea re preware2 for 1.4.5. Mar 21 09:04:27 actually, can preware and preware 2 coexist, destinal? Mar 21 09:05:33 csc`: never tried it but I expect they could, they use the same backend service Mar 21 09:05:34 i remember seeing an armv7 binary Mar 21 09:05:54 destinal, they're named com.preware and com.preware2 respectively though right? Mar 21 09:06:07 so they should be able to Mar 21 09:10:17 yeah Mar 21 09:10:26 preware 2 is named preware-alpha Mar 21 09:10:40 on a side note i always wondered where the heck the keyboss package was Mar 21 09:11:04 csc`: they also start with org.webosinternals. Mar 21 09:11:21 but neither here nor there :) Mar 21 09:13:11 floating point numbers and strings separate package versions, afaik Mar 21 09:13:36 has to be named preware and have a floating point version of 2.0.0 to upgrade preware 1.9.x Mar 21 09:13:45 at least, in theory Mar 21 09:14:25 i wish i didnt have to reinstall preware for this to work though Mar 21 09:14:26 :( Mar 21 09:15:13 i hate doing that, always scares me. One time something happened on my phone and the second half of the alphabet vanished, leaving everything onboard the phone that I could use to reinstall preware missing Mar 21 09:15:56 err the second half of the alphabet vanished? Mar 21 09:16:00 yeah Mar 21 09:16:02 weird i know Mar 21 09:16:07 i forget what i was fiddling with Mar 21 09:17:01 csc`: well if you have devmode on you can always reinstall preware one way or another, at least Mar 21 09:17:01 ...there it goes Mar 21 09:17:12 destinal, i had no computer at the time so i was pretty furious Mar 21 09:17:24 lucky i had all the tools required for a doctor Mar 21 09:18:00 how can i install an ipkg via commandline? Mar 21 09:18:15 palm-install whatever.ipk Mar 21 09:18:22 on pc command line Mar 21 09:18:41 need webos SDK for this though Mar 21 09:18:57 uh yeah i have that but on linux Mar 21 09:18:59 dont have palm-install Mar 21 09:19:08 was wondering how to do it on the device Mar 21 09:19:17 i have the ipkg optware installer if that makes things easier Mar 21 09:21:02 found it Mar 21 09:21:07 csc`: hmmm, been so long since I did that. you have to ipkg -o install whatever.ipk and then manually run the postinst file. even I haven't done that in a long time Mar 21 09:21:15 ipkg-cl Mar 21 09:22:05 errr Mar 21 09:22:35 got a hand ful of upstart errors Mar 21 09:22:42 on installing it Mar 21 09:22:42 brb Mar 21 09:26:34 csc`: this would still work these days I think .. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Installing_Preware_from_the_command_line Mar 21 09:33:48 well that didnt work Mar 21 09:36:38 crap Mar 21 09:38:02 pretty weird how usb tethering works without the mytether slider on Mar 21 09:38:24 destinal, Im shadowflank on the forums, in case nobody could glean that Mar 21 09:38:35 csc`: this would still work these days I think .. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Installing_Preware_from_the_command_line Mar 21 09:38:40 was having an issue with it on windows 7 and still never got it to work Mar 21 09:39:06 destinal, well i just snagged webos quick installer but i forgot to enable the testing feeds again Mar 21 09:39:09 *sigh* Mar 21 09:39:14 ahh Mar 21 09:39:49 curse you rootfs and your lack of a .bash_history Mar 21 09:40:11 * csc` knows this is because its read only, and not dare change it to rw unless need be Mar 21 09:42:37 destinal, know if anyone plans on fixing wIRC? Great client if it weren't plagued with problems Mar 21 09:42:42 massive problems Mar 21 09:43:09 csc`: hmm, what problems are those? Mar 21 09:43:28 crashing the entire phone because the plugin/frontend is buggy Mar 21 09:43:44 they aren't bs, as I heard the developers told one person years ago Mar 21 09:44:00 csc`: I think the primary developer has quit webos app development but it's open source so anyone could contribute patches... Mar 21 09:44:30 randomly it'll decide to hang on a connection, and if you try to disconnect, crash. Sometimes you'll hit connect after it disconnects and crash. so on and so forth Mar 21 09:44:37 not to mention lack of simple scripting plugins Mar 21 09:46:03 even though ncurses applications suck in 'Terminal', i'd rather use irssi Mar 21 09:48:15 i wish i didnt get screwed when i got my pixi+, the battery health was already at 80. Looking at it almost hit full charge, the 850mAh is just kinda sad Mar 21 09:50:15 anywho, thanks for the help destinal, and company. I'll be lurking here more often now that i know you guys exist here Mar 21 09:50:45 I'd like to start getting into actual development for WebOS, just can't wrap my head around all the bits required to do that right now :s Mar 21 09:50:49 csc`: wow, still using Terminal? Mar 21 09:51:13 destinal, terminus crashed when i used it once and xterm is annoying with the keybinds Mar 21 09:51:34 terminal is nice for quick and dirty stuff but not things like ncurses, where you have to rotate the screen constantly to force a ui update Mar 21 09:52:19 destinal, does wterm run on 1.4.5? Mar 21 09:52:19 or no clue Mar 21 09:52:34 csc`: good question, I don't know (but I would have guessed it would) Mar 21 09:52:50 when i stumbled upon the forums post it seemed mainly for the TP Mar 21 09:53:02 but i vaguely recall seeing a beta package for armv7 Mar 21 09:53:13 dunno ill check it out and report issues if i have any Mar 21 09:53:24 I know some work has been done on it for the phones but not sure if only pre2 and so on Mar 21 09:53:30 but its almost 5am and ive got work in 6 hours :( Mar 21 09:53:34 it was originally touchpad focused Mar 21 09:53:58 i installed the VKB package even though its somewhat garbage, in effort to save my device from the dreaded oreo twist Mar 21 09:54:12 kinda random to mention, but i remember wterm having a vkb Mar 21 09:54:50 csc`: well at any rate glad you've found the channel .. it's a bit quieter than it used to be but a bunch of us are still here at times Mar 21 09:55:44 meh, im usually not very quiet at all Mar 21 09:55:54 and the only thing i have interest in lately is webos Mar 21 09:56:20 i have a benq mid s6 which i want to port Openwebos to, and a utab430 which i think has the allwinner 10 SoC Mar 21 09:57:28 and best of all, im now getting 3G over T-Mobile, no more crappy 2g data for me Mar 21 09:57:55 my range of getting needed files to work on webos and open webos is greatly increased with the added bandwith :) Mar 21 09:58:20 the new speeds i get will drain the battery while its charging, which is a bit scary but impressive Mar 21 09:59:35 ill neither confirm or deny it, but i have desires to assemble persons capable of building generic linux compatible hardware, for *coughnewdevicescough* Mar 21 10:01:33 anyway, thanks again destinal Mar 21 10:32:54 well i WAS going to go to sleep but then i noticed preware missing Mar 21 10:32:56 =\ Mar 21 20:10:34 anyone around? Mar 21 20:10:42 I need help with a ghost preware Mar 21 20:11:39 csc`, what do you mean a 'ghost preware'? Mar 21 20:11:58 scoutcamper, exactly what it sounds like, its installed but not according to ANY palm software Mar 21 20:12:18 tried two versions of quick install, the bootstrap, nothing Mar 21 20:12:23 it usually stays until i reboot Mar 21 20:12:38 what version of preware did you install? how? on what device? running what os version? Mar 21 20:12:46 only thing i have done to break it was enable the alpha and beta feeds Mar 21 20:12:48 at first .19 Mar 21 20:13:05 then .10, on a Pre+ running 1.4.5 on T-Mobile with carrier branding of AT&T Mar 21 20:13:23 i tried .4 and .5 of quick install also Mar 21 20:13:34 using what install method? palm-install? Mar 21 20:13:37 i really dont want to doctor my phone, it would take a day to get everything Mar 21 20:14:22 scoutcamper, ipkg-cl ipkg webos quick install 4 and 5, preware upgrade from .10 to .19 Mar 21 20:14:29 and the preware-bootstrap shell script Mar 21 20:14:36 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Preware#Installing_Preware_using_the_official_HP.2FPalm_SDK Mar 21 20:14:54 the only noticable error is something about the package database and awk not being able to parse it Mar 21 20:14:56 i only install preware with palm-install Mar 21 20:15:06 ive never had an issue til now :( Mar 21 20:15:10 even disabling the feeds didnt work Mar 21 20:17:28 scoutcamper, all i got from the palm sdk was novacomd and novaterm Mar 21 20:17:38 Im running Lubuntu 12.10 on this machine Mar 21 20:18:31 no 'palm-install' unless theres something missing from that wiki page Mar 21 20:19:37 palm-install should have come with it, one second Mar 21 20:22:39 running 'find / | grep palm-install' Mar 21 20:22:52 csc`, can you post the whole awk cant parse package db error? Mar 21 20:23:21 not without killing my internet connection Mar 21 20:23:33 it was a file not found error from awk about org.webosinternals.Packages or something of the sort Mar 21 20:23:45 it was looking in the directory '/tmp/' Mar 21 20:26:02 hmmmm Mar 21 20:26:51 scoutcamper, upon reading ipkg service on the wiki, i may have broken something using ipkg -o via commandline Mar 21 20:26:53 csc`, please confirm that you installed https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/3.0.5.676/sdkBinaries/HP_webOS_SDK-Win-3.0.5-676-x64.exe Mar 21 20:26:55 or ipkg-cl Mar 21 20:27:07 errr Mar 21 20:27:08 Im running Lubuntu 12.10 on this machine Mar 21 20:27:10 thats a .exe Mar 21 20:27:23 https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/3.0.5.676/sdkBinaries/palm-sdk_3.0.5-svn528736-pho676_i386.deb Mar 21 20:27:45 i am on kubuntu 12.04 myself Mar 21 20:28:35 weird Mar 21 20:28:50 not installed Mar 21 20:29:10 csc`: novacom is its own package, sdk is its own package Mar 21 20:29:12 you need both Mar 21 20:29:22 palm-sdk_2.1.0-svn409992-pho519_i386.deb is what i have Mar 21 20:29:33 and what i /thought/ was installed Mar 21 20:29:42 csc`: check /opt/palm IIRC Mar 21 20:29:46 you installed a very ancient version of the sdk if that is what you installed Mar 21 20:29:59 scoutcamper, dont really have time to download that 3.x sdk, can i use mine? Mar 21 20:30:11 im on a tether Mar 21 20:30:32 yours still should have come with palm-install Mar 21 20:30:35 it shouldnt matter if the version of webos is lesser than that of the sdk, id think Mar 21 20:30:43 scoutcamper, somehow it isnt installed anymore Mar 21 20:30:45 as destinal said check /opt/palm Mar 21 20:30:48 maybe i forgot to install it Mar 21 20:30:56 thats possible Mar 21 20:31:25 i recently repaired the system and dont remember downloading that recently Mar 21 20:31:32 so yeah, i think i just forgot to install it somehow Mar 21 20:31:48 i can use 2.1.0 even though its not latest, because my phone is 1.4.5, right? Mar 21 20:31:53 csc`: dpkg -L palm-sdk Mar 21 20:31:59 see what files you got from it Mar 21 20:32:24 destinal, checked in synaptic...its easier just to reinstall the package than sit here bickering about where it got misplaced yknow :P Mar 21 20:34:19 yeah, just wasnt installed is all. Guess i forgot Mar 21 20:34:19 onward! Mar 21 20:36:06 hope this works Mar 21 20:36:33 if it does, proves the beta feed enabling, for whatever reasoning it could've been, wasn't the issue and I can re-enable them Mar 21 20:37:06 on a side note Preware 2 does not run past the 'loading package list' spinner on webos 1.4.5 as of now. Not complaining, just throwing it out there. Mar 21 20:37:48 how did you install preware-alpha? preware alpha 2.0.0 or v2.0.1? Mar 21 20:38:04 through preware before i rebooted and it disappeared Mar 21 20:38:24 preware alpha stayed Mar 21 20:38:28 preware didnt. Mar 21 20:39:01 figured maybe i'd give it a bit of time to run its course but it never got past that screen Mar 21 20:39:21 scoutcamper, preware is still missing after a luna restart using palm-install Mar 21 20:39:59 used this: http://get.preware.org/org.webosinternals.preware.ipk ipkg to install Mar 21 20:40:32 try this: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/armv7/org.webosinternals.preware_1.9.12_arm.ipk Mar 21 20:41:35 it will stay if i dont restart the phone or luna, but eventually somehow the phone dies and reboots on its own Mar 21 20:41:39 taking preware with it Mar 21 20:44:34 the alpha and beta feeds are still enabled even though i removed /var/prefs~/org.webosinternals.preware Mar 21 20:45:33 scoutcamper, this is baffling really. Preware doesn't exhibit any abnormal functionality or anything Mar 21 20:45:41 i can run it just fine til i restart luna/reboot Mar 21 20:46:40 novaterm into the device and watch the logs in /var/logs/messages while you reboot luna Mar 21 20:48:40 whats the command to actively pipe a file, if any? Mar 21 20:49:02 or should i nuke messages and just restart luna to get a fresh log Mar 21 20:49:23 tail -f /var/log/messages Mar 21 20:51:12 2013-03-21T20:50:17.608612Z [7563] palm-webos-device user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS}: com.palm.systemui: Error: SystemUI-App Restore Needed {"returnValue": true, "subscribed": true}, palmInitFramework347:2528 Mar 21 20:51:15 only thing i see really Mar 21 20:52:34 i dont recall what that error means Mar 21 20:52:51 2013-03-21T20:52:34.850708Z [7700] palm-webos-device user.notice ApplicationInstallerUtility: Install Completed, returning AI_ERR_NONE Mar 21 20:52:54 its been too long since ive had any strange issues like this on non-owo hardware Mar 21 20:52:59 csc`: ipkg-cl was really not the right thing to run yesterday ;-/ Mar 21 20:53:15 destinal, of course it wasnt Mar 21 20:53:21 nothing i ever do is right, durr Mar 21 20:53:36 csc`: heh now if you followed the wiki! then you'd probably have been ok :) Mar 21 20:53:58 csc`: as of now, you may have to doctor Mar 21 20:54:25 there is always the preware homebrew documentation app in the app catalog for you to look at after you doctor the device Mar 21 20:54:49 bleh Mar 21 20:55:03 if i would've noticed palm-sdk wasn't installed i would've palm-installed Mar 21 20:55:44 what does ipkg-cl -o org.webosinternals.preware.ipk do, really Mar 21 20:55:49 is there any way to revert it? Mar 21 20:56:58 2013-03-21T20:56:38.333862Z [7944] palm-webos-device user.err jailer[11473]: No conf file for type (null)- can't delete jail for org.webosinternals.preware Mar 21 20:57:03 hmm Mar 21 20:57:35 thats what i get removing preware via webos quick install 4.5 Mar 21 20:59:10 if i completely remove preware manually from the device, would it render it more useless than it is without preware? Mar 21 21:06:44 * csc` prods destinal and scoutcamper Mar 21 21:08:07 csc`, i am busy with my day job, but i suggest webos doctor as the quickest way to fix your device Mar 21 21:08:22 heh if you only knew what that entailed Mar 21 21:09:30 scoutcamper, i know your busy, but if i were to delete /var/palm/data/file_.usr.palm.applications.org.webosinternals.preware_0/, do you know what it would break Mar 21 21:10:13 csc`: I think somehow you have really messed the state of things on your device if luna is crashing now Mar 21 21:10:35 csc`: I doubt anyone here has the hours of troubleshooting it would take to get that sorted without doctoring Mar 21 21:10:39 destinal, its not crashing really Mar 21 21:11:00 destinal, just want to know if preware will hate having its database purged Mar 21 21:11:17 tis weird how it only affects preware and nothing else Mar 21 21:11:53 heh find / | grep org.webosinternals.preware reveals quite a few people include the preware ipk in their package Mar 21 21:12:15 csc`: yeah I think removing those files would be fine, I'd completely uninstall preware as well Mar 21 21:12:17 unless im misunderstanding what the jailer does Mar 21 21:12:39 destinal, i tried that with WOQSI, i got the above jail error Mar 21 21:12:59 csc`: you're out of my depth and my knowledge is pretty deep :) Mar 21 21:13:19 destinal, no way to force a manual jail removal? Mar 21 21:13:27 csc`: I've never heard of anyone trying Mar 21 21:13:30 not that i know of Mar 21 21:13:47 what does it use? fuse? Mar 21 21:15:09 like i said, webos-doctor is the only way i know of that *will* fix this issue. Mar 21 21:15:10 hmm Mar 21 21:15:33 scoutcamper, ill probably continue using the bootstrap until i can dedicate half a day to doctor Mar 21 21:16:09 is there any easy way to reinstall mass patches/packages previously installed or am I just gonna have to do that on my own Mar 21 21:16:24 or backup the list Mar 21 21:16:32 csc`: very good question -- i think rwhitby did some research on the jails but I haven't really played much with them. searching the wiki would be a good thing to try Mar 21 21:17:07 destinal, /var/palm/jail doesnt have a jail for preware = Mar 21 21:17:09 =\ Mar 21 21:17:09 csc`: at very least you now have an extremely rare problem Mar 21 21:17:38 tethered preware install! Mar 21 21:17:46 perfect for bringing it to the manufacturer Mar 21 21:18:07 if only i could figure out how to reverse it, i'd slap it on the wiki Mar 21 21:18:36 i think im gonna hold off on doctoring til someone wants to help debug it, since it is such a rare and odd issue Mar 21 21:18:43 someone could benefit from such information Mar 21 21:19:15 its not like i honestly need preware on the phone right now really, i have everything setup Mar 21 21:19:28 and if i absolutely need it, i can preware-bootstrap and get it back for a minute Mar 21 21:23:44 plus some of my applications aren't available in the app catalog, and i'd like to convert most of my things into ipk Mar 21 21:44:55 sigh Mar 21 21:49:41 oh, him again? i ignored him yesterday in #webos Mar 21 21:53:35 PatrickC|Quassel: it's one of those situations of "knowing enough to be dangerous" Mar 21 21:53:57 and not spending the time to do the homework to absorb al the work we've already done here Mar 21 21:54:15 ie webos-internals wiki Mar 21 21:54:20 i've been there before..... Mar 21 21:54:23 it got me kicked heh **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 22 02:59:57 2013