**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 25 02:59:59 2013 Mar 25 05:27:12 guys,how to resize the optware.ext3? Mar 25 05:28:21 optware install app into /opt,and it 100% now ,how to resize it? Mar 25 08:08:16 destinal, three days and two doctors later... Mar 25 15:30:08 Does will pay attention here occasionally? Mar 25 15:32:25 will? Mar 25 15:35:20 * csc` points to dtzWill whom he didn't want to namedrop Mar 25 15:36:26 i sent him an email back when I had my pixi regarding his VBA branch for the pixi, he was kind enough to make a binary and send a copy to me to shoot down my hopes of it running Mar 25 15:37:16 it ran, but like garbage. Not the phones fault imo, Robert's gbc.emu worked fine on the pixi for gameboy(color). Just lacked the optimization it seemed Mar 25 15:38:01 but i sent him a followup about my Odamex compiling woes and his XServer in a card. I had issues producing an SDL library onboard my pixi with X11 support Mar 25 15:38:42 an odd side note i DID get aalib support compiled into it, but never tried running it =3 Mar 25 15:53:26 csc`, okay understood. Mar 25 15:55:21 ka6sox, back then i only had my phone, no pc or anything. I spose i could just try the WDK to build a binary right? Mar 25 15:56:57 yes Mar 25 15:57:41 would still like to add it to my knowledge and document it for building on-board webos for X11 in a card Mar 25 16:08:09 ... Mar 25 16:09:26 what, I was unable to produce an X11 supported binary using stock X11 headers, the github headers, and nobody would point me in the right direction whatsoever Mar 25 16:37:24 csc`, sorry, I can't either... Mar 25 16:37:40 x11 and I go waaaay back..and its not pretty. Mar 25 16:39:07 heh i hate it, its a pain in the arse Mar 25 16:39:23 i remember my days of LFS....i ended up with xfree86 and not x.org Mar 25 17:11:54 csc`: hey! :) Mar 25 17:14:21 csc`: i've definitely seen same issues re:terrible pixi performance with VBA, but never had a chance to chase down what exactly caused it. It really is unreasonably bad :/. Mar 25 17:16:40 xserver stuff should build w/WIDK, but that can be a bit... fickle. Mar 25 17:17:07 hahaha aalib, wonderful. What more do you need? xD Mar 25 17:17:22 i never tried running it Mar 25 17:17:26 pixi crashed and burned before it happened Mar 25 17:17:47 and hope you dont take offense of me marketing gbc.emu to pixi users instead of buying VBA in the catalog, dtzWill Mar 25 17:19:38 oh absolutely not. VBA is open-source and freely available in preware :). The app catalog offering was an alternative, but identical binaries and such. Definitely glad pixi users have a viable alternative. Mar 25 17:20:57 sadly no gba emulation though Mar 25 17:21:00 it didnt run TOO bad Mar 25 17:21:10 hiya dtzWill Mar 25 17:21:11 but it was definitely not smooth Mar 25 17:21:16 ka6sox: hey! :) Mar 25 17:21:24 I have a clang question Mar 25 17:21:33 ka6sox: hooray! Mar 25 17:21:42 ka6sox: (go ahead) Mar 25 17:23:12 :info:build Undefined symbols for architecture x86_64: Mar 25 17:23:12 :info:build "_iconv_open", referenced from: Mar 25 17:23:12 :info:build _xmlFindCharEncodingHandler in libxml_rpl.a(libxml_rpl_la-encoding.o) Mar 25 17:23:12 :info:build "_iconv_close", referenced from: Mar 25 17:23:12 :info:build _xmlFindCharEncodingHandler in libxml_rpl.a(libxml_rpl_la-encoding.o) Mar 25 17:23:13 :info:build _xmlCharEncCloseFunc in libxml_rpl.a(libxml_rpl_la-encoding.o) Mar 25 17:23:15 :info:build "_iconv", referenced from: Mar 25 17:23:17 :info:build _xmlIconvWrapper in libxml_rpl.a(libxml_rpl_la-encoding.o) Mar 25 17:23:21 :info:build (maybe you meant: _xmem_iconveh, _xstr_iconv , _str_iconveha , _str_iconveh , _str_iconv , _xstr_iconveh , _mem_iconveha , _mem_iconveh ) Mar 25 17:23:24 :info:build ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture x86_64 Mar 25 17:23:26 :info:build clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation) Mar 25 17:23:28 :info:build make[4]: *** [libgettextlib.la] Error 1 Mar 25 17:23:30 whoops Mar 25 17:23:32 sorry Mar 25 17:23:40 should have pastebinn'd that Mar 25 17:23:43 csc`: apologies for being MIA, not so much ignore emails as keep failing to get back to them amidst real-life priorities. And yours were *fun*, too! Anyway, apologies for that. Mar 25 17:24:08 ka6sox: hehe s'all good. Can't be undone! :) Mar 25 17:24:28 http://pastebin.com/Lvtwwn6c Mar 25 17:24:51 ka6sox: link in whatever provides _iconv_open? Quick google gives me: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8997581/scannerkit-api-apple-mach-o-linker-errors . Did you try the suggested approach there? Mar 25 17:25:38 my first experience with clang and I kinda ran out of time yesterday to play anymore Mar 25 17:25:43 I'll try that Mar 25 17:26:16 how did you know it was an apple error? Mar 25 17:27:24 ka6sox: didn't, got lucky. That said, what's the ":info:build" from? Mar 25 17:27:51 macports Mar 25 17:28:36 my goal is to get the gEDA app running on my mac in x11 Mar 25 17:28:46 hehe, i mean i knew that was from macports, that's how i knew >_> <_< :) Mar 25 17:28:46 but I was running into those linker errors Mar 25 17:29:25 dtzWill, i figured as much, atleast you bothered to send me the binary :P Mar 25 17:29:39 I was attempting to: port install gettext and that happened. Mar 25 17:29:44 where do I install that dylib? Mar 25 17:30:01 (not sure where frameworks like that live. Mar 25 17:30:02 ) Mar 25 17:30:02 dtzWill, in other notes, how /would/ i build a binary for your x11 in a card? just a build it for the right architecture against standard libraries or specific versions? Mar 25 17:32:24 ka6sox: if you're just trying to install ports stuff, I'd hop into the relevant channel, they'd probably be able to help you quite a bit more. I'm a bit unfamiliar with standard mac practice. Mar 25 17:32:59 lets see if there is one here Mar 25 17:33:13 that said, since the code /built/ it seems you have the right headers (how'd the code know these symbols existed?) but somehow the build system is failing ot link in the right libraries. I suspect it's just a bad ports, but like I said I'd ping the folk maintaining it since I really don't know. Mar 25 17:37:04 csc`: the x11 server itself I believe uses SDL and GLES headers that are platform dependent and part of the SDK. Mar 25 17:37:36 so i need to build Odamex against the SDK with the WDK/Scratchbox then Mar 25 17:38:01 The server's based on whatever was the latest xserver at the time, and builds against those dependencies. The exact versions are built as part of the WIDK, but if that sounds painful it might be eaiser to merge upsream xserver changes to get the xserver-in-a-card at a revision that better matches whatever dependencies you already have on hand. Mar 25 17:38:12 building x+all its deps by hand is an annoying process, heh :/. Mar 25 17:39:15 csc`: I built it w/o WIDK the first time, but put it into WIDK to automate it. So both should work, the 'by-hand' is painful in that it mostly involves going "whoops need this dep, *chase down right version*, *build*" and repeating until you're done :). Mar 25 17:39:44 i broke your software transplanting x11 headers Mar 25 17:39:44 lol Mar 25 17:39:52 csc`: sorry, to be clear your suggested solution should work, yes. Mar 25 17:40:22 csc`: what do you mean? hehe Mar 25 17:41:45 damn tether Mar 25 17:41:51 dtzWill, getting help in #macports Mar 25 17:42:20 ka6sox: great! is there a short explanation of the fix? Curious now :) Mar 25 17:42:25 err nvm i'll just hop in Mar 25 17:42:40 dtzWill, but anywho. the X11 in a card sources are available somewhere on the bowels of github, correct Mar 25 17:44:13 csc`: in short, what I'm trying to say is the server itself should build just like any other x server, modulo the SDL/GLES headers (and linking in a few libs during final link). As for how to ./configure it, I'd check the WIDK but basically it's just a modified xsdl so enable that and disable most other things :). Mar 25 17:44:28 csc`: https://github.com/dtzWill/xserver_webos yep Mar 25 17:46:02 i think as long as the sdl copy in the sdk is linked to x11, perhaps i wont need to do much Mar 25 17:46:50 csc`: i think i modified the build system to pull in the right things, let me know if that doesn't work. It might be confused as to where to find the libs, lemme know if you run into problems. Mar 25 17:47:40 whoa the codesourcery mirrors are servering at more than 50kbps! When did that happen? haha Mar 25 17:53:15 csc`: fwiw building the server is half the battle. The other half is getting a working xserver install onto your device such that resources/etc are where they expect to be (fonts, etc). In particular there's some xkeyboard-config stuff (http://git.webos-internals.org/x11/xkeyboard-config/) that turns the SDL keycodes into something useful Mar 25 17:55:43 dtzWill, if it'll build in your current release, thats what im aimin for Mar 25 17:56:17 csc`: pulling down widk onto my arch box presently, we'll see what issues I run into... :) Mar 25 18:26:51 ka6sox: https://pastee.org/wzueu Mar 25 18:27:00 ka6sox: is that available somewhere else now? Mar 25 18:27:28 (WIDK looks for it) Mar 25 18:27:33 hmmm.... Mar 25 18:28:14 ka6sox: nbd, i really only mean to do armv7 stuff, but thought if it just migrated i'd fix it :) Mar 25 18:28:21 I see why...jas Mar 25 18:28:56 who was the main guy who did the frontend for Doom and Quake? Mar 25 18:28:59 Rod? Mar 25 18:29:18 nop Mar 25 18:30:35 dtzWill, should be fixed in 15 minutes or so Mar 25 18:31:14 csc`: those were mine as well. Good news is they're very much easier to build.. :) Mar 25 18:31:27 hey guys! Mar 25 18:31:34 dtzWill, oo maybe you can help after all Mar 25 18:31:50 dtzWill, Odamex is a client server doom port, and DOES compile on a pixi and runs in textmode Mar 25 18:31:58 what went into getting touchscreen controls and whatnot going? Mar 25 18:32:42 thats the end goal, really. To give webos users a client/server doom port to play on their phones if they want Mar 25 18:32:57 the end result would be touchscreen interface Mar 25 18:33:53 csc`: is using SDL a viable option? That's the supported webos way of making games work, and the touch input is treated as a mouse (a strange mouse, but still), etc Mar 25 18:33:59 many SDL things are pretty easy to get up and running. Mar 25 18:34:03 it offers predictive netcode, compression, wad downloads directly from the server, and is entirely GPL and open source. Written in C++ Mar 25 18:34:09 ka6sox: great, thanks :D Mar 25 18:34:16 its written in SDL dtzWill :P Mar 25 18:34:21 csc`: wow, awesome! Mar 25 18:34:30 dtzWill, if you've got a free minute, check it out, http://odamex.net/ Mar 25 18:34:40 dtzWill, did you notice they were nice and actually helpful? Mar 25 18:34:50 nobody seemed to be interested in helping me test nor get it working with video output on the forums Mar 25 18:35:05 got mad when I abandoned my futile efforts because i didn't post a binary which only ran on pixi's anyway Mar 25 18:35:25 but nobody requested the binaries and the source is available...so yeah. Mar 25 18:35:25 csc`, pixi has always been a special case Mar 25 18:35:35 ka6sox, the pixi is mentally ill Mar 25 18:35:37 im convinced. Mar 25 18:35:39 the only ARMv6 we dealt with. Mar 25 18:35:51 csc`: good, then you should just be able to build it with the palm SDK and away you go. SDK docs cna help you handle misc platform things like pausing when put into card mode, etc, if that's important. Mar 25 18:36:04 man when i saw the pixi+ on newegg for 60 bucks, i was like damn i always wanted a webos phone Mar 25 18:36:21 ka6sox: yeah! :D Mar 25 18:36:22 then investigated the scene, saw the support, got it with two day shipping Mar 25 18:36:38 dtzWill, well what about touchscreen controls similar to those in Quake? Mar 25 18:37:12 or will that just happen automagically or something Mar 25 18:37:18 csc`: ah, that was hand-rolled. Not the best, but fun project :). Mar 25 18:37:21 ka6sox, but yeah once i got it, i loved and hated it Mar 25 18:37:33 csc`: nah, added overlay and had to interpret touch events to make that work. Mar 25 18:38:04 so what, listen for touchscreen input and send data to the input subsystem? Mar 25 18:38:39 ka6sox, once i got my pre+ though...that was the game changer that made me say screw getting a nexus 4 when my pixi died in a bath of vinegar Mar 25 18:39:44 csc`: yeah, pretty much. Mar 25 18:40:39 dtzWill, so basically make an overlay to interpret touch data and translate it to raw keypress data Mar 25 18:40:53 got any links on how to get that working? Mar 25 18:41:02 or is it in the docs somewhere Mar 25 18:41:33 csc`: no no that's all something I did. It's generally rather game-specific, right? Mar 25 18:41:48 so bit of thinking about how you want to interact, then some coding to make that happen w/the game in question. Mar 25 18:41:48 dtzWill, similar keybinds to quake and doom Mar 25 18:42:13 need a joystick thingy? throw a little joystick sprite in the right spot, and convet touch events near it to appropritae movement in the game Mar 25 18:42:16 the way i just mentioned is kinda a big workaround to get this working on my own without modifying the main source tree Mar 25 18:42:56 never tried to do anything clever like you're suggesting, entirely transparent to the underlying app. Didn't seem general enough to motivat such a thing, but it's a fun idea for sure. Mar 25 18:43:04 of course it would be nice to have support for it directly in the tree Mar 25 18:43:22 but that will not even be thought of until i poop out a video-supported binary Mar 25 18:43:40 i can confirm everything works but video and key input, along with standard mouse input like you said Mar 25 18:43:50 csc`: of course. Mar 25 18:44:04 including the master, client and server. Client and server communicates normally and i can connect via textmode Mar 25 18:44:27 csc`: is this all to get your doom sdl thing going? That should be very much easier to build and deal with, and just skip x11 altogether. SDL inside of X is lame anyway due to lack of 2d accel. Mar 25 18:44:30 i documented a roadmap and whatnot, along with my progress and roadblocks encountered on the forums Mar 25 18:44:39 ka6sox: works great now, thanks! :) Mar 25 18:44:50 np Mar 25 18:44:57 dtzWill, yeah but back then i did not have a pc, only my pixi Mar 25 18:45:19 so thats why my forum sig is 'Im nuts. Help me compile odamex onboard my device' Mar 25 18:45:29 csc`: just throw SDL headers from SDK onto your device, and away you go :P Mar 25 18:45:42 err modulo enough of ipkg-opt to get a build system haha, but presumably you've got that handled Mar 25 18:45:44 hahaha <3 sig Mar 25 18:45:48 dtzWill, im going to setup the WDK to start playing with it Mar 25 18:46:05 how hard is it to interface the overlay on top of the application itself in webos? Mar 25 18:46:14 like if i built it with palm stuff Mar 25 18:46:29 csc`: yeah trying it right now myself. Judging by your arch affiliation, hopefully i'll run into most issues before you do. Unless your machine is faster than mine xD :) Mar 25 18:46:46 dtzWill, im running ubuntu on this laptop Mar 25 18:47:09 i dont have a dedicated arch machine anymore due to the fact it ate my previous laptop's drive and forced me to badblock surgerize the partitions Mar 25 18:47:25 not to mention they changed quite a bit and I don't really like the new install process Mar 25 18:47:33 csc`: i think I'm not being clear. webos has SDL support, and will forward key events as sdl keyboard events and touch events as mouse events. How your app deals with that is up to your app and any 'overlay' will be something your app does itself. Mar 25 18:47:35 for a laptop it should just work Mar 25 18:47:44 dtzWill, yeah i know Mar 25 18:47:50 i built this on the n800 Mar 25 18:47:52 csc`: ubuntu shuld work great, that's the primarily supported platform.. in theory :) Mar 25 18:47:54 onboard Mar 25 18:48:04 took forever but i got it running out of the box Mar 25 18:48:19 csc`: okay, great, just making sure you didn't think I was descrbiing some automagic thing that pops up an overlay :) Mar 25 18:48:27 no no no Mar 25 18:48:52 but when you build it with the pdk, does it generate html and javascript to operate the application in a card? Mar 25 18:49:19 thats what i was wondering. If thats so, i can just make the javascript overlay translate to keypresses and get clunky but working touchscreen controls Mar 25 18:49:39 when i built this on the n800, it was barely playable but it had no keyboard, mainly because in order to aim you had to block the screen Mar 25 18:49:42 csc`: oh, well the easiest way to do this is just build a sdl binary and follow the pdk app documentation to package it up. no html/javascript needed at all. Mar 25 18:50:12 csc`: what you're describing i think is a hybrid--html/js webos app like normal, with an embedded native app running inside it Mar 25 18:50:19 but how does it know to run it in a card without the proper html/js/etc? Mar 25 18:50:28 yeah Mar 25 18:50:31 exactly Mar 25 18:50:34 that's a bit trickier and for that i'd look at how wterm does it, perhaps. But mostly i'd try to avoid it altogether. Mar 25 18:51:10 hmm Mar 25 18:51:25 csc`: webos' sdl implementation hooks SDL_Init and handles the card stuff transparently Mar 25 18:51:38 csc`: so most sdl apps, if you just build against the webos sdl will just magically pop up cards. It's pretty cool. Mar 25 18:51:47 hmm Mar 25 18:51:55 aka SDL is the magic portability layer it's supposed to be :) Mar 25 18:52:05 yeah Mar 25 18:52:22 so in the end, real touchscreen control will need to be written into the application Mar 25 18:53:09 so question in regards to that then, do you have any clue if touchscreen data is crossplatform? ie, if you write it once, will it run on say, android (in theory, of course) Mar 25 18:53:13 pretty much. That or some clever kludge to put some overlay shim between your app and SDL, but that's probably not worth the effort... Mar 25 18:53:53 or would each OS need its own touchscreen control calibration Mar 25 18:54:02 id think not, eh? Mar 25 18:54:20 csc`: well dunno that SDL is supported on android, really have no idea. But if it is, i imagine they have similar touch input. Mar 25 18:54:43 well with the overlay i mean Mar 25 18:54:58 if the overlay is written directly into the code, no clue how portable it is? Mar 25 18:55:04 don't know, tbh. Try it, I guess. Don't see anything that'd need particular attention. Sometimes it's useful to adjust for some inaccuracy to better detect tap vs drag, that might need per-device calibration. Mar 25 18:55:59 csc`: the 'overlay' is just a)interpreting the mouse events and coverting per your input scheme and b)drawing some ui elements as part of the video pipeline so users know how to use the app Mar 25 18:56:13 seems pretty portable, but things like resolution indepdendence and such might require special attention Mar 25 18:57:38 hmm Mar 25 18:57:45 forwarding all this to the devs Mar 25 18:58:01 they're also interested in me getting this to compile on android also Mar 25 18:58:20 im the unofficial erroneous package maintainer Mar 25 18:58:22 =\ Mar 25 18:59:23 i really hae no idea re:sdl support in android, not even at the level of what "Sdl android" turns up :). Full disclosure. Mar 25 19:00:18 lol Mar 25 19:00:28 ill find out when it gets to that Mar 25 19:00:36 hows your build going dtzWill? Mar 25 19:07:49 not the best. Dead download links, presently. Mar 25 19:08:19 use svn Mar 25 19:08:33 http://odamex.net/svn/root/trunk Mar 25 19:08:36 iirc Mar 25 19:16:07 oh i forgot to ask this random question, but what is the purpose of palm-worm? Mar 25 19:16:33 oh no I'm just throwing WIDK on my laptop, haven't tackled anything related to odamex. Mar 25 19:16:36 heh :/. Mar 25 19:17:04 oh Mar 25 19:17:27 i need to free some space before i do that Mar 25 19:17:38 also want to hear what the devs have to say about implementing an overlay Mar 25 19:52:27 sebastienb, I fixed optware-project...sorry it broke. Mar 25 19:52:33 whoops Mar 25 20:33:12 dtzWill, https://github.com/kripken/emscripten Mar 25 20:33:14 heard of that? Mar 25 20:34:19 csc`: oh yes :D Mar 25 20:34:27 i wonder Mar 25 20:34:32 should i try that to make my overlay idea? Mar 25 20:35:05 csc`: have you seen this?! http://vps2.etotheipiplusone.com:30176/redmine/projects/emscripten-qt/wiki/Demos :D Mar 25 23:48:20 curious Mar 25 23:48:33 why is WDK's makefile trying to get the mac osx version of the pdk? Mar 25 23:48:46 due to originally there was no linux sdk? Mar 26 00:28:28 yup Mar 26 01:47:02 Anyone reply to the WDK question i had? Mar 26 01:47:06 been in and out Mar 26 01:47:54 [17:28] yup Mar 26 01:48:08 bah westcoaster Mar 26 01:49:29 well it failed to extract the hfs file Mar 26 01:49:48 can i just rename the linux sdk to match the extracted files? Mar 26 01:50:52 Extracting Palm_webOS_SDK/Palm_webOS_SDK-Mac-1.4.5.465.pkg ERROR: E_FAIL Mar 26 02:12:47 you mean Mar 26 02:12:48 bestcoaster Mar 26 02:13:20 yes, if you lack that utility you could probably modify the makefile and extract it a different way Mar 26 02:13:41 but there wasn't a 1.4.5 sdk for linux Mar 26 02:14:16 and LAMP is set up on my VPS to be used as a toy :) Mar 26 02:19:29 dwc-, i am a derp Mar 26 02:19:34 i ran out of space Mar 26 02:19:36 lol Mar 26 02:19:56 i was trying to archive my benq recovery iso with 7z Mar 26 02:56:48 Do legacy webos versions have WebGL? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 26 02:59:58 2013