**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 03 02:59:58 2012 Jul 03 03:04:02 the whole mid-atlantic has been sweltering Jul 03 03:05:00 egaudet, started a archlinux setup for nfsd on the wiki... Jul 03 03:05:07 feel free to fix that as necessary... Jul 03 03:05:16 I'll check it out Jul 03 03:14:04 where should I add tips for installing vagrant? Jul 03 03:14:37 in the top section Jul 03 03:14:53 under the "install vagrant" section Jul 03 03:15:14 this is for Arch? Jul 03 03:15:20 or any linux? or ? Jul 03 03:18:22 for arch sorry Jul 03 03:18:24 alt tab Jul 03 03:19:56 put it in the Arch Linux section then please Jul 03 03:21:39 ok thanks Jul 03 03:39:51 * EricBlade wonders if Windows Backup normally takes 8+ hrs to backup about 300 gig Jul 03 03:51:27 doesn;t suprise me Jul 03 03:57:43 EricBlade, I wouldnt' be surprised Jul 03 04:00:04 oil__, you here? Jul 03 04:34:11 bah...I rarely use this windoze lappy..and now, instead of finishing woce-be I'm disinfecting :P Jul 03 04:41:36 EricBlade, I suspect that we need to sort out 2 things before we can pull in new gesture things... Jul 03 04:41:45 1) fix whats broken with PDK apps Jul 03 04:42:04 2) come up with a method to control the advanced gestures. Jul 03 04:47:49 well, here's a fun one Jul 03 04:48:01 my tablet is sitting in portrait mode Jul 03 04:48:16 if the screen turns off, then i press the home button to wake it up Jul 03 04:48:31 the card appears half in portrait half in landscape for about a full second Jul 03 05:05:52 ha ha ha ha ha...I love it! Jul 03 05:09:02 seeing same thing? Jul 03 05:09:09 folks Jul 03 05:09:37 any new news ? Jul 03 05:09:44 just finding more bugs Jul 03 05:10:14 with lunasysmgr ? Jul 03 05:10:45 suprise suprise suprise! Jul 03 05:52:48 ka6sox: I agree (1) is the most important Jul 03 05:55:22 thanks... Jul 03 05:55:43 finding out what is broken and fixing it will make it more desirable for users... Jul 03 05:55:54 yeah Jul 03 05:56:24 so here's where I am right now Jul 03 05:56:38 i'm tracking how a PDK app gets launched Jul 03 05:56:49 and they do in fact get launched Jul 03 05:56:54 you can see the process starting Jul 03 05:57:00 and then there's a "client connection" that happens Jul 03 05:57:10 in IPCServer.h Jul 03 05:57:21 void IpcServer::clientConnected(int pid, const std::string& name, PIpcChannel* channel) Jul 03 05:57:34 this then creates a client host Jul 03 05:57:35 IpcClientHost* c = new IpcClientHost(pid, appId, channel); m_clientHostSet.insert(c); Jul 03 05:57:42 and stores it in that m_clientHostSet Jul 03 05:57:59 and eventually, when you close the app, the connection gets closed Jul 03 05:58:09 however I see nowhere in the code where the channel is connected Jul 03 05:58:15 ie, everything is using "m_channel" Jul 03 05:58:27 but I'm trying to find where m_channel attaches to this m_clientHostSet Jul 03 05:58:50 so if the IPC server isn't connected then that would cause trouble Jul 03 05:59:01 actually, let me test sending an async command Jul 03 05:59:05 immediately after it connects Jul 03 05:59:35 it might connect, i just don't see the evidence yet Jul 03 05:59:40 but if it isn't connected Jul 03 05:59:44 this explains why a bit Jul 03 05:59:52 this explains the issues, i mean Jul 03 06:01:00 yes Jul 03 06:03:51 hmm Jul 03 06:04:00 the reason you see something when the app is minimized Jul 03 06:04:04 perhaps the process is writing a file Jul 03 06:04:14 ie of what the screen should be Jul 03 06:14:03 ok, cardhostwindow is made after the client is connected... Jul 03 06:15:30 hmm Jul 03 06:15:35 maybe it is getting it... Jul 03 06:24:40 ok no i think it gets the channel. Jul 03 06:24:57 what a maze this is! Jul 03 06:27:24 at least its not Perl. Jul 03 06:27:47 then it would be an unreadable maze Jul 03 06:29:12 yeah, true Jul 03 06:29:28 so Window << HostWindow << CardWindow << CardHostWindow Jul 03 06:29:36 for PDKs Jul 03 06:58:25 interesting...hybrid apps paint Jul 03 07:14:28 anyone have a fresh device Jul 03 07:14:33 ie with 3.0.5 still on? Jul 03 07:14:37 (non #woce) Jul 03 07:15:44 yes, well I should check if its 3.0.5 first.. Jul 03 07:15:45 jas Jul 03 07:16:37 can you run the simple example Jul 03 07:16:39 from the PDK Jul 03 07:16:48 and see if you get this error Jul 03 07:16:59 PmLogLib: sem_open error: Permission denied Jul 03 07:17:43 I don't have that here... Jul 03 07:17:47 hmm, never mind Jul 03 07:17:51 i see it in the hybrid too Jul 03 07:17:52 which works Jul 03 07:17:54 (as I don't have the PDK...) Jul 03 07:17:58 bummers Jul 03 07:19:24 a complete instant machine reboot on doing a palm-install.. that's a weird one Jul 03 07:19:55 that sounds like an oopsed kernel Jul 03 07:21:48 "palm-install: no response", i look at the device, and it's sitting on the boot menu Jul 03 07:26:14 ok Jul 03 07:26:21 so i get logs from my PDK Jul 03 07:26:42 however it hangs on SDL_GL_SwapBuffers(); Jul 03 07:27:02 when i comment that out, I don't get touch events either Jul 03 07:35:21 perhaps I can track down how the hybrid app starts its process Jul 03 07:35:25 and compare to the PDK Jul 03 07:48:49 kind of annoying this is happening... Jul 03 07:51:33 yeah... Jul 03 07:51:40 you'd think this would have been tested? Jul 03 07:52:49 sssh...we are happy we have this...whats a few bugs among friends... Jul 03 07:52:52 :D Jul 03 07:52:59 haha Jul 03 07:53:14 its probably something we forgot to link in. Jul 03 07:53:42 that's what i was thinking when i got that error...until i got the same error in hybrid Jul 03 07:54:25 a permission denied is funny.... Jul 03 07:54:37 since everything in the TP almost runs as root. Jul 03 07:54:42 (well some things don't) Jul 03 07:54:48 those processes don't Jul 03 07:54:53 right Jul 03 07:54:57 forgot about that Jul 03 07:56:14 let me set some of their logs lower Jul 03 08:02:15 hmm Jul 03 08:02:21 so you have Angry Birds on yours? Jul 03 08:02:28 on 3.0.5 version Jul 03 08:07:04 no, this one is plain jane... Jul 03 08:07:14 its my vanilla box Jul 03 08:09:09 do you have any pdk apps on there? Jul 03 08:09:31 just widk Jul 03 08:09:47 can you set your logging to debug Jul 03 08:09:52 and see if you get these Jul 03 08:12:48 2012-07-03T08:10:42.655680Z [169839] webos-device user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: static PIpcBuffer* PIpcBuffer::attach(int, int): failed to attach to shared memory key -1: Invalid argument 2012-07-03T08:10:42.655792Z [169839] webos-device user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: HostWindowDataSoftware::HostWindowDataSoftware(int, int, int, int, bool) (55): Failed to attach to metadata shared buffer with key: -1 Jul 03 08:13:27 let me add a pdk app... Jul 03 08:15:12 wirc is hybrid Jul 03 08:15:21 what is a pdk from the homebrew catalog? Jul 03 08:17:11 I just realized..this is 3.0.4 Jul 03 08:17:12 Qt browser Jul 03 08:17:19 that should be fine too Jul 03 08:17:40 A-Browser Qt Jul 03 08:17:45 is Xecutah? Jul 03 08:17:59 or Xterm? Jul 03 08:20:00 I'll snag Xterm Jul 03 08:20:11 Edge is slow...so it will be a few minutes Jul 03 08:20:43 no worries Jul 03 08:22:48 hmmm Jul 03 08:22:58 so both hybrid and PDK call this function Jul 03 08:23:12 for this "metadata key", it is hard coded to -1 in the PDK case Jul 03 08:23:28 the other is something else Jul 03 08:23:31 might be getting somewhere Jul 03 08:28:38 I keep forgetting how slow edge is. Jul 03 08:40:23 ka6sox: sssslllllloooooooooowwwwwwwww Jul 03 08:40:24 :) Jul 03 08:40:33 no kidding Jul 03 08:41:39 ka6sox: try GPRS if you want fun Jul 03 08:41:53 ka6sox: or better go back to CSD Jul 03 08:41:56 ow ow ow Jul 03 08:42:09 stefan_schmidt_w, acoustic couplers and 110baud modems. Jul 03 08:42:12 there was an age before 3G and better :) Jul 03 08:42:21 ka6sox: yeah, that one would rock Jul 03 08:43:08 it would be so great to us ethe voice channel to transfer data between phones. Sadly the re-encoding of the voice channel by operators makes that not really feasible Jul 03 08:43:43 I think carrier pigeons are faster. Jul 03 08:43:56 there is an RFC for that... Jul 03 08:44:01 and CSD is not under normal phone minutes. Well, and operators start to disable it and now longer deploy equipment with it Jul 03 08:44:06 to bad Jul 03 08:44:18 direct data communication between devices would be sweet Jul 03 08:44:27 ka6sox: yeah, seen it :) Jul 03 08:45:00 oddly...its that RFC that enables us to talk to the MARS rovers Jul 03 08:45:14 ka6sox: 5050? Jul 03 08:45:40 I did my diploma thesis about delay tolerant networking over IEEE802.15.4 :) Jul 03 08:45:59 DTN uses RFC5050 (bundle protocol) Jul 03 08:46:10 1149 Jul 03 08:46:50 ah, never seen this one Jul 03 08:47:14 ah, that is the pidgin one Jul 03 08:47:25 I was confused for a second Jul 03 08:47:39 anyway, work is calling. bbl Jul 03 08:47:46 5050 is the "improved version with QoS" Jul 03 09:23:28 released: http://bit.ly/MS70rQ thanks shiftyaxel and egaudet Jul 03 09:26:05 ok, i'm getting nowhere Jul 03 09:26:11 think i'll give up tonight Jul 03 09:26:21 however, my current plan is to hijack the PDK Jul 03 09:26:41 ie, if it is PDK, I turn it into a hybrid Jul 03 09:26:48 kk Jul 03 09:27:03 I give up too...its 2;30am and I'm beat Jul 03 09:27:11 i'm not sure what performance hit one would take Jul 03 09:27:45 anyway, GN Jul 03 09:27:52 nite dukiedrew Jul 03 14:35:18 * pc-world reported two bugs in Infrastructure http://issues.webos-ports.org/projects/infrastructure/issues?set_filter=1 Jul 03 14:45:28 morning all Jul 03 14:48:44 hi Jul 03 14:57:07 morning all, I just grabbed a touchpad for cheap. It's dual booting CM, anyone know the easiest way to redo this thing? (new to webos restoring). Jul 03 14:57:23 as in remove CM? Jul 03 14:57:39 Well, remove CM and do a fresh install of WebOS. Jul 03 14:57:54 download the latest doctor from http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Doctor_Versions#Tablet Jul 03 14:57:59 (3.0.5) Jul 03 14:58:20 then just plug your TP in and run the doctor, it should detect it and set it up as stock Jul 03 14:58:38 Awesome, thanks. Jul 03 14:58:46 no worries :) Jul 03 15:10:32 hi, nice to see that my pull requests have been accepted :-) Jul 03 15:11:26 I'm planning to dig into the virtual keyboard and international keymaps some more. What is the project's preferred way of storing the keymaps? Jul 03 15:11:49 as it is now, in the code, or in the file system? Jul 03 15:33:23 ShiftyAxel: Doctor won't see this thing. Running Windows 7 any idea why that would be? Should I put it in usb drive mode when it pops up? Jul 03 15:33:51 hmm, might have to put it into usb mode Jul 03 15:34:50 one sec while i look up how that works Jul 03 15:35:26 (usb mode as in developer-y usb mode, not mass storage) Jul 03 15:35:47 I'm googling it myself. Haven't found anything yet. Jul 03 15:36:33 aha, there we go Jul 03 15:37:07 turn the device off, hold the volume up button then connect the USB cable Jul 03 15:38:01 a big usb symbol should appear onscreen, at which point the doctor should sail through with no problems Jul 03 15:40:08 Ah, ha. That's not part of HP's instructions? lol Jul 03 15:40:33 *crosses fingers that he doesn't brick this out of the gate* Jul 03 15:41:03 hp's instructions strike me as 'in an ideal world' :P Jul 03 15:41:13 and dw, webOS devices are very, very difficult to brick Jul 03 15:41:19 Has it seems. Just found what you were talking about in their support. Jul 03 15:41:37 aha, good stufff Jul 03 15:43:00 * ShiftyAxel decides that Colloquy is better than Limechat Jul 03 15:44:52 that's better Jul 03 15:46:52 Heh, I've never looked further than Collo for IRC on Mac…but I'm lazy too. Jul 03 15:47:47 yeah, installing and testing more than one is a faff Jul 03 15:47:58 from what i hear though, collo is the best free option Jul 03 15:50:32 HP glowing orb of waiting 20 minutes to boot. >.> Jul 03 15:51:13 haha, that bit is always slightly tense Jul 03 15:51:40 it'll be fine though Jul 03 15:53:09 So what's the plan here. How deep are you guys looking to change this CE? So far (I know it's only been out a few weeks) it looks like just tweaks. Jul 03 15:53:33 amnoth, as the familiarity with the code increases, so will the complexity of the modifications Jul 03 15:53:50 everything is just "tweaks" so far because any one person is only familiar with 1% of the code Jul 03 15:54:25 but as far as how far do people plan on going... I would say that it's a pretty safe bet that no piece of code is safe from being modified Jul 03 15:54:39 yeah, that sounds about right :P Jul 03 15:54:58 I personally would like to see the general "look and feel" of webOS stay the same, card metaphor, emphasis on gestures, etc Jul 03 15:55:18 but I would love to see more gestures, perhaps even a way to setup custom gestures down the road Jul 03 15:55:29 imagine drawing the letter e on the screen and having the email app open Jul 03 15:55:44 drawing a w and the default web browser opens Jul 03 15:56:03 that sounds sensible, plus with all the new features being added there should probably be a choice of gesture->feature mapping Jul 03 15:56:06 drawing a certain squiggle and your favorite app opens... Jul 03 15:56:29 ShiftyAxel, exactly, what I would LOVE to see is a system app that lets you teach it a gesture, and tell it what to do when that gesture is used Jul 03 15:56:30 btw, LunaSysMgr has about 279214 lines of code Jul 03 15:56:49 Heh. yeah, I peeked at it. def a lot to take in. Jul 03 15:57:24 (and about 1484 files) Jul 03 15:57:32 but that's the best part about it being open sourced... it now has the potential to draw from a developer pool many times the size of apple's or google's Jul 03 15:57:59 I don't think it is at that point yet, but the potential for it is there Jul 03 15:59:12 I always thought an inverse of HTC's unlock screen would be an awesome fit for the unlocker in webos. Jul 03 15:59:34 where you drag the lock to the app instead of the app to the ring. Jul 03 16:00:25 i'm not sure i follow? Jul 03 16:00:59 So when you unlock you've for the lock which you drag out of the horizon thingy on webs right. Jul 03 16:01:08 yeah Jul 03 16:01:24 when you grab the lock around the horizon are app icons. Jul 03 16:01:39 you drag the lock to the app you want to open and let go and it unlocks to that app. Jul 03 16:01:48 perhaps with a position due north which is just "unlock" Jul 03 16:01:53 ah, yeah Jul 03 16:01:56 that sounds cool Jul 03 16:02:02 drag up to just unlock, but be able to configure apps to be evenly spaced around it Jul 03 16:02:32 i had a similar idea a few weeks back, Jul 03 16:02:34 Yeah, also would need to reinstate the drag from the "gesture area" to unlock. Jul 03 16:02:47 dragging up from the bottom? Jul 03 16:02:54 Yeah. Like you could on the phones. Jul 03 16:03:00 Doesn't look like it works on the touchpad. Jul 03 16:03:04 This button is stupid btw. Jul 03 16:03:11 Who at HP added this button to webos. Jul 03 16:03:15 I hate you. Jul 03 16:03:22 yes, buttons are bad Jul 03 16:03:34 agreed Jul 03 16:03:37 with a vengeance Jul 03 16:03:43 it's cumbersome. Jul 03 16:03:47 gestures are totally the way forward Jul 03 16:03:47 I don't mind power buttons, volume buttons are OK too... and I am a big fan of a ringer mute switch Jul 03 16:03:55 I feel like I should flick from the middle. Jul 03 16:04:07 but any button which needs to be used constantly as part of operating the device is frivolous Jul 03 16:04:34 What is the name of the top left menu? Jul 03 16:04:35 i imagine adding the swipe up to unlock would actually be pretty easy now you mention Jul 03 16:04:38 Because I hate it too. Jul 03 16:04:48 lol, the device menu? Jul 03 16:04:55 whyfore? Jul 03 16:05:04 * halfhalo yawns Jul 03 16:05:06 It feels like a legacy thing. Jul 03 16:05:18 ShiftyAxel, what I wold prefer, rather than dragging up from the bottom, is something like this Jul 03 16:05:30 there is no lock icon shown... wherever you tap, that's where it shows up Jul 03 16:05:42 If it were actually used to store EVERY apps settings or something ok, but it does nothing. Jul 03 16:06:00 then when you finger hits the screen, the lock icon is under it, and put an unlock spot due north of it, with amnoth's app ring around it Jul 03 16:06:33 I like it as a setting, but I think you need a point of reference for general useres. Jul 03 16:06:37 users* Jul 03 16:07:57 The problem is that people need to know what to do the first time. Jul 03 16:08:12 How would we convey that you need to hold your finger anywhere? Jul 03 16:08:15 aka 'simplicity is king'? Jul 03 16:08:38 my Galaxy S3 shows no lock icon until you touch it Jul 03 16:08:58 By default? Jul 03 16:09:44 wow, I forgot how much I missed webos..this thing is awesome and all i've done is join wifi. Jul 03 16:10:07 hah Jul 03 16:10:18 haha, i know that feeling Jul 03 16:10:33 it doesn't do as much as iOS or Droid, but god does it feel nice Jul 03 16:11:00 "it doesn't do as much as iOS or Droid" is why I finally switched Jul 03 16:11:02 amnoth, yep, by default, I can tap on an app icon and drag to unlock into that app, or I can tap off an app icon and a lock shows up, which I can then drag to just unlock Jul 03 16:12:00 Oh, there are icons you drag to the lock then? Jul 03 16:12:58 tap on icon and drag X distance, or tap on lock and drag X distance Jul 03 16:13:03 I may or may not have geeked out one evening and made some drawings about this on my iPad... Jul 03 16:13:52 got cha. I defiantly like it either way. being able to quick jump from the lock to any app you normally use is a must imo. Jul 03 16:14:16 are you guys aware of the webOS Open Source Ideas Hub? Jul 03 16:14:38 nope. Jul 03 16:15:54 take a look: https://www.pivotaltracker.com/projects/486337/stories Jul 03 16:16:12 not enough people know about it imo, it's like a repo to store ideas that the community want implimented Jul 03 16:18:14 "Don't scroll when swiping in from bezel", hehe word, that is annoying. Jul 03 16:18:23 did they never release Skype for touchpad? Jul 03 16:18:43 Oh, it's part of messages... Jul 03 16:18:57 both me and blade have already fixed the scrolling issue, in two separate luna mods :D Jul 03 16:19:01 *eblade Jul 03 16:19:32 Cool. That's my next project today. Figure out how to setup this CE stuff. Jul 03 16:20:02 the webos-ports wiki has some good info on that Jul 03 16:20:21 Yeah, I was messing with the BE last night. Jul 03 16:20:26 what we need to work on is a good way to have all these cool patches that you guys are making be selectable options from a system configuration menu ;) Jul 03 16:21:10 the BE is awesome, i was hanging out in here during development Jul 03 16:21:30 i really should set it up actually, i'm still copying and pasting from my ubuntu vm to my github repo >_> Jul 03 16:21:58 I didn't really understand what it was and didn't get it running yet. Jul 03 16:22:13 It was talking about setting up nfs for something. Jul 03 16:22:45 yeah, that's so you can use whatever you like to edit the sources on your host os Jul 03 16:23:12 the BE then accesses the sources via nfs share and compiles them under a fully-supported linux environment Jul 03 16:23:59 So is the vm running webos? Jul 03 16:23:59 yep Jul 03 16:24:24 i believe it's ubuntu actually Jul 03 16:24:27 the idea is that you can build your patched versions of things in a virtualized environment that we know is capable of properly building the stock code Jul 03 16:24:31 it is ;) Jul 03 16:24:44 we exclusively support Ubuntu 12.04 as our build environment Jul 03 16:25:09 haha, my new phone ranks higher than the HTC One X on the quadrant benchmarks Jul 03 16:25:22 GS3? Jul 03 16:25:26 yep Jul 03 16:25:27 So this is just for building then. Does it push to your device somehow then too I take it. Jul 03 16:26:23 amnoth: you have to transfer LunaSysMgr to your TP manually, i do it via an automator app that runs the novacom stuff at the bottom of the woce-build wiki page Jul 03 16:27:01 +cryptk: niiice, i'm kind of torn between the One X and GS3 for my next upgrade Jul 03 16:27:01 k Jul 03 16:27:17 I'll understand all of this in a few weeks. Sorry for all the ?s. lol Jul 03 16:27:27 ShiftyAxel, the One X ranks higher on the CPU benchmarks Jul 03 16:27:28 happy to help :) Jul 03 16:27:35 but a phone with 2GB of ram is hard to beat ;) Jul 03 16:27:51 haha, this is true Jul 03 16:28:08 the One X is such a sexy piece of hardware Jul 03 16:28:33 as is the GS3 Jul 03 16:28:39 but we are getting OT now... Jul 03 16:28:59 I still don't get why you'd need 2GB of RAM (with a good mobile OS) Jul 03 16:29:26 pc-world, more ram could potentially allow things like prefetching commonly used apps into ram to allow for faster launches Jul 03 16:30:08 imagine if the entire email app were already running, but in a paused state, in ram Jul 03 16:30:18 it could in theory be launched near instantly Jul 03 16:30:32 cryptk: btw, that's what is (more or less) done in webOS Jul 03 16:30:37 most stock apps are in RAM all the time Jul 03 16:31:20 pc-world, the background portion of them are, that way it can check email and notify you if it comes in Jul 03 16:31:20 i've noticed that the stock apps load way faster, i'd be great if all apps just slid straight up onto the screen Jul 03 16:31:29 but I mean having the whole email app running, just not displayed Jul 03 16:31:47 it would near eliminate the "loading pulse" when launching them Jul 03 16:31:57 http://www.webosnation.com/hp-windsornot-slab-phone-revealed-old-marketing-materials ; ; Jul 03 16:32:05 that is just one use case or lots of ram Jul 03 16:32:07 I want the front of that phone, but the back is kinda scary. Jul 03 16:32:21 cryptk: I'm pretty sure they are kept in RAM all the time Jul 03 16:32:33 e.g. stock apps load their JS only once Jul 03 16:32:39 not really Jul 03 16:32:40 (and *not* just the services) Jul 03 16:32:44 they are. Jul 03 16:32:47 launch the music app, start playing something Jul 03 16:33:02 then swipe it up off the screen and re-launch it, it will be where you used to be, and the re-launch will be faster Jul 03 16:33:09 now down swipe it to close it Jul 03 16:33:12 launch again Jul 03 16:33:28 amnoth: i saw that earlier, such a shame that HP killed it. a webOS slab would have done well I think Jul 03 16:33:29 longer launch (same time as the first launch after a reboot) and you are back at the beginning of your music list Jul 03 16:33:32 cryptk: Make a syntax error in one file of the stock apps, restart Luna. Fire up palm-log or tail -f /var/log/messages, the syntax error message will not come up again Jul 03 16:33:51 pc-world, correct, but that does not mean that the app is fully running Jul 03 16:33:54 cryptk: They only show up once, and that's when Luna boots. So it at least preloads the JS or something Jul 03 16:34:02 cryptk: no, not fully Jul 03 16:34:06 it means that the files contents are cached, and there is no need to parse them again Jul 03 16:34:06 yeah, I think the main reason the adoption rate was terrible was Rubys stupid keyboard. Jul 03 16:34:09 *imo Jul 03 16:34:23 pc-world, what I am talking about is starting the stock apps (and perhaps others) at bootup Jul 03 16:34:23 don't get me wrong, i love the keyboard on my pre3 Jul 03 16:34:31 and leaving them running in ram, but with no card displayed Jul 03 16:34:41 then when you launch them, it is a matter of just displaying the card Jul 03 16:34:46 but i'm well aware that slabs are the in thing atm, and it was a silly move to doggedly stick to sliders Jul 03 16:34:57 cryptk: that shouldn't be too hard to implement (I guess) Jul 03 16:35:12 the only think fun about the keyboard was opening and closing it when bored. Jul 03 16:35:29 pc-world, it isn't necessarily a feature request, just an example of one reason why it might be desirable to have 2GB of ram on a phone Jul 03 16:35:46 amnoth, I prefer physical keyboards Jul 03 16:35:58 slabs are the "in thing" but they aren't everybodies preference Jul 03 16:36:19 Hey, open source = options right. :) Jul 03 16:36:24 cryptk: Well, you could just put these apps (when not displayed to the user) in swap, if done correctly this shouldn't make it much slower Jul 03 16:36:52 +cryptk, pc-world: if combined with an algorithm to detect which apps are most used, that could be a pretty cool feature to have on webOS Jul 03 16:37:01 pc-world, ram is faster than swap, and it takes time and CPU cycles to move something to swap, and time/CPU to move them back out Jul 03 16:37:02 The real problem is that most OSs/applications don't handle resources right Jul 03 16:37:11 so long as it took into account how much ram is spare to avoid mem/performance issues Jul 03 16:37:15 cryptk: I know it does, that's why I said "if done correctly" Jul 03 16:37:19 leaving something in ram only requires the refresh pulse that the mainboard is already sending to maintain the bits Jul 03 16:37:45 ShiftyAxel, yep, it would need to properly manage the ram to make sure that the "hidden" apps don't slow down the active ones Jul 03 16:38:00 yeah, but copying a few MB to the RAM shouldn't be more than a few ms (correct me if I'm wrong) Jul 03 16:38:16 that is highly dependent on a multitude of factors Jul 03 16:38:26 but ideally, it would be pretty quick Jul 03 16:38:37 as long as the things in swap aren't being actively accessed, it isn't a problem Jul 03 16:39:07 in fact, linux does what you are talking about already ;) Jul 03 16:39:08 yeah, that's why this should be done mainly with apps that aren't displayed to the user. Jul 03 16:39:43 When a binary isn't running, it is in neither the RAM or swap (afaik) Jul 03 16:39:49 (in Linux) Jul 03 16:40:04 I was referring to the "swap out bits in ram that aren't being used" portion Jul 03 16:40:23 of course it does, otherwise swap would be really useless ;) Jul 03 16:40:24 not the actively running apps in ram that aren't displayed Jul 03 16:40:43 the original intent of swap was to prevent an OOM crash situation when ram was exhausted Jul 03 16:40:55 though that doesn't apply to webOS at all, since all (web) apps run in the same process sadly Jul 03 16:41:01 but it turns out that happens so infrequently, that they came up with other additional uses for it Jul 03 16:41:23 such as storing the entire contents of your ram in swap when you hibernate Jul 03 16:41:31 That's one thing that makes webOS so slow, each running app blocks the others Jul 03 16:41:34 that is why you need at least as much swap as ram in order to hibernate a linux OS Jul 03 16:42:01 pc-world, I haven't had a chance to pour over the new LSM code, but I would suspect that is still the case in the new one as well Jul 03 16:42:13 yes, it is Jul 03 16:42:17 although I would personally prefer to see apps have their own processes/PID's/memory space etc Jul 03 16:42:25 multi-processing would probably require *massive* code rewrite Jul 03 16:42:45 yes, that feature really is missing Jul 03 16:42:52 i would imagine that's what'll happen with Open webOS (hopefully at least) Jul 03 16:43:08 ShiftyAxel: I hope so too, but I don't really expect this Jul 03 16:43:10 i hear isis uses some sort of multiprocess model Jul 03 16:43:37 there was an article about it a while ago on some strange website that referred to developers as 'web kittens' Jul 03 16:43:52 that doesn't mean webOS will make use of it Jul 03 16:44:04 (Ben Combee commented on that a while ago) Jul 03 16:44:27 ah Jul 03 16:44:31 (on multi-process webOS) Jul 03 16:45:06 i guess i'm not especially bothered how it works, so long as it works smoothly Jul 03 16:46:03 my idealist hope would be iOS-comparable smoothness, but the cynic in me keeps saying 'really? reeeeally?' Jul 03 16:46:54 ShiftyAxel, I would compare the smoothness of the GS3 to be near what iOS has Jul 03 16:47:18 it runs ICS, right? Jul 03 16:47:21 but I would love to see that on a webOS device Jul 03 16:47:25 ShiftyAxel, yes, ICS Jul 03 16:47:27 cryptk: though Android needs like 3 times the resources of iOS to accomplish this Jul 03 16:47:30 no JB with Butter enhancements yet Jul 03 16:47:34 pc-world, true Jul 03 16:47:42 the butter enhancements were what i was thinking of Jul 03 16:47:45 but android is about 3 times more powerful than iOS Jul 03 16:47:56 it doesn't treat me like a child, which is what annoys me most about iOS Jul 03 16:48:01 and what draws me to webOS the most Jul 03 16:48:41 ...cause there are so many problems and you have to solve them all on your own. :D Jul 03 16:50:08 i'm quite enjoying messing with the webOS source, i've wanted to ever since i had my original Pre Jul 03 16:56:40 anyway, time for me to sleep, I gotta work tonight unfortunately... Jul 03 16:56:43 later all Jul 03 16:56:46 l8r Jul 03 17:05:40 p9rm8ss76n$ Jul 03 17:05:51 p9rm8ss76n$ Jul 03 17:05:54 ... Jul 03 17:06:07 still better than hunter2, though. Jul 03 17:06:19 * ShiftyAxel stares blankle Jul 03 17:06:23 *blankly Jul 03 17:07:21 nah, not this box's passwd Jul 03 17:07:31 different one. but now I get to change it... Jul 03 17:08:14 I liked that password too. Jul 03 17:09:02 what I get for two keyboards in front of me lol Jul 03 17:09:13 amnoth: pwgen -sy 20 1 Jul 03 17:09:45 heh, w0rd. Luckily I only use that password for work. >.> Jul 03 17:10:10 amnoth: your employer is gonna kill you :P Jul 03 17:10:35 Ha, nah, only my local user not my domain admin passwd lol Jul 03 17:10:57 lol Jul 03 17:11:06 That would suck. Jul 03 17:11:59 amnoth: you typed that twice cause you wondered why your computer (with the other keyboard) didn't react? ^^ Jul 03 17:12:35 Truth. Jul 03 17:12:49 <3 technology Jul 03 17:12:54 Not the first time I've done that either, just usually not on IRC... Jul 03 17:13:13 Normally it's in a note or something and I look up at the other screen like wtf... Jul 03 17:13:30 especially an IRC whose logs are officially available Jul 03 17:13:30 It's an easy to type password though, feel free to use it... Jul 03 17:13:50 amnoth: will use your password for my webOS dev account. Jul 03 17:13:58 Sure! Jul 03 17:14:15 thx in advance Jul 03 17:14:16 :D Jul 03 17:14:16 At least you'll all know me as the guy that types passwords in plain text... Jul 03 17:14:29 Like I said, no one passwd gets reused. Jul 03 17:14:57 Let's hope I don't type the domain admin password though... Jul 03 17:15:11 amnoth: How'd you do it else? Talk to your PC until he unlocks itself? ^^ Jul 03 17:15:24 *it Jul 03 17:16:05 How'd I what now? Jul 03 17:16:21 I'm still wondering how different open webos will be at launch from 3.0.5 or the community edition Jul 03 17:16:43 amnoth: re "as the guy that types passwords in plain text" Jul 03 17:16:57 RagingMind: probably less stable, less features etc. Jul 03 17:17:36 Oh, idk…Making a name for myself in the webos comm is hard you know... Jul 03 17:18:03 I use face unlock to unlock all my computers. Jul 03 17:18:24 lol Jul 03 17:18:24 I'll print a photo of you and unlock your PCs :P Jul 03 17:18:26 Then I paste a picture of myself in my chair so people think I'm working... Jul 03 17:18:33 lol Jul 03 17:20:53 anyway, not that I've changed that password finally, back to installing vagrant.... Jul 03 17:27:23 oy Jul 03 17:27:25 oops Jul 03 17:27:38 pc-world: Do you think there will be any major architecture changes, getting rid of outdated code etc? Jul 03 17:27:47 So reading the be stuff, what's the /path/to/shared/dir ? Jul 03 17:28:13 the location of woce-build on the host system Jul 03 17:28:31 for instance, mine is in /Users/josh/Documents/Github/Projects/woce-build Jul 03 17:28:36 Ah. kk Jul 03 17:28:36 so that's what i'd use Jul 03 17:28:50 ShiftyAxel: Do you mean LunaSysMgr in Open webOS? Jul 03 17:29:28 pc-world: Open webOS as a whole really, I don't really have an image in my head of what it'll be Jul 03 17:29:37 though i guess few do :p Jul 03 17:30:24 ShiftyAxel: I don't know, though I guess there will be quite much of code rewrite, though not sure which parts of webOS this will affect Jul 03 17:31:39 ShiftyAxel: though I can't imagine there will be many new/mind-blowing (end-user) features, considering how few ppl only still work on webOS Jul 03 17:32:05 (but, again, that's all just speculation) Jul 03 17:33:20 Not sure it really needs mind-blowing new features, just an evolution and some updating here and there. Jul 03 17:33:53 (Assuming, of course, Isis is integrated and maintained. Future of apps /should/ be browser based.) Jul 03 17:34:01 agreed there Jul 03 17:34:20 i'd like the os as a whole to be more responsive, which is something i'm trying to work into WOCE Jul 03 17:34:43 Getting an error on the checkexports, unknown user: 501? Jul 03 17:35:03 hmm, what version of osx are you running? Jul 03 17:35:21 10.7.4 Jul 03 17:35:22 Would be nice if more codecs were bundled into the gstreamer install. (Packaged, of course, only for those countries they're legal in. *cough cough*) Jul 03 17:35:48 amnoth: curious, have you got some sort of non-standard user setup? Jul 03 17:36:14 network user ya. Does that just want my userid I take it? Jul 03 17:36:43 yeah, either that or 'nobody' Jul 03 17:37:12 whichever works basically Jul 03 17:37:31 let me know which works for you and i'll update the wiki with the info Jul 03 17:37:43 Better file management is another big wish. There is no reason individual apps should have to implement support for dropbox or box.net or any other cloud provider. Jul 03 17:37:44 Mmm.... network users... Jul 03 17:38:08 * ShiftyAxel imagined that in a homer simpson voice Jul 03 17:39:21 mberg: hopefully stuff like that will be properly implemented as synergy services this time round Jul 03 17:39:35 That is my hope. :) Jul 03 17:39:52 somebody needs to build a webOS Pivotal Tracker app now :) Jul 03 17:40:32 Exports list on localhost: ….../woce-build Everyone Jul 03 17:40:38 That what we're looking for? Jul 03 17:42:13 ShiftyAxel: "card view, the launcher and any other native graphic elements composed of HTML5 and CSS3 instead. This is how 1.4.5 worked" Jul 03 17:42:13 I don't really think card view was JS in 1.4.5 Jul 03 17:42:51 I think you're right about that Jul 03 17:43:02 * ShiftyAxel surreptitiously modifies that entry Jul 03 17:43:18 ShiftyAxel: Seems to work. I just ran id and grabbed my userid. the /path/to/share should be explained a bit. Jul 03 17:44:43 cool, i'll modify the entry taking that into account Jul 03 17:44:50 ShiftyAxel: Pivotal keeps logs ;) Jul 03 17:44:59 ShiftyAxel: and that wouldn't work at all (at least not in a real way) Jul 03 17:45:08 not feasible? Jul 03 17:45:38 i think i wrote a lot of those entries before i got into development for webOS, so a few of them might be a bit hopeful Jul 03 17:45:41 ShiftyAxel: you could do iframes... But that doesn't make any sense Jul 03 17:45:59 how come? Jul 03 17:46:37 HTML just wasn't built for that. (okay, neither is it suitable for real apps...) Jul 03 17:46:57 actually thinking back, i think that one was written taking into account the isis multi-process model and BrowserServer model Jul 03 17:47:17 HTML is just misused in "modern web development" Jul 03 17:47:20 it seemed quite an elegant way to do things, but is kind of torpedoed if webOS isn't necessarily going to use it Jul 03 17:47:28 ah Jul 03 17:48:03 (just my opinion) Jul 03 17:49:26 pc-world: don't tell Mozilla Jul 03 17:49:50 bigbluehat: lol why? Jul 03 17:50:06 Firefox OS is all HTML5 Jul 03 17:50:17 (HTML5 being more than HTML it should be noted) Jul 03 17:50:35 oh, haven't read up on Firefox OS yet Jul 03 17:50:42 do Jul 03 17:50:48 Gaia, their UI, is entirely HTML5 Jul 03 17:50:53 and can be hacked on in Chrome Jul 03 17:51:03 and checked out and used (most of it) without the OS Jul 03 17:51:20 super good for gaining UX designer support/interest Jul 03 17:51:28 ...if nothing else :) Jul 03 17:51:37 At least when your HTML just consists of divs (like Mojo/Enyo), that tells that you completely failed to get the intention of HTML Jul 03 17:52:00 Enyo sort of punts on HTML Jul 03 17:52:13 and makes it's own markup language (of sorts) that "compiles" (or runs) as HTML Jul 03 17:52:17 because that's what the browser needs Jul 03 17:52:20 bigbluehat: what do you think of mozilla's offering? the initial UI and stuff seems a little… uninviting Jul 03 17:52:22 yeah, and that's the problem Jul 03 17:52:35 HTML isn't just suitable for web apps anymore Jul 03 17:52:35 yeah, so far it's mostly "rinse and repeat" from other OS's Jul 03 17:52:50 morning EricBlade Jul 03 17:52:53 but it's also mostly a proof of concept for the HTML5 for All The Things™ Jul 03 17:52:55 concept Jul 03 17:53:07 haha Jul 03 17:53:21 without something like db8 and/or Synergy, they're not going to be doing much that's really *new* Jul 03 17:53:27 webOS does more than change UX Jul 03 17:53:34 it changes the full environment of the OS Jul 03 17:53:39 to something that's document centric Jul 03 17:53:47 ...at least for those apps that did it right Jul 03 17:53:55 Synergy is one of the best ideas in webOS Jul 03 17:54:01 hey guys. i have witnessed just at this moment, that the stacking bug is not completely fixed, only acts up less Jul 03 17:54:06 definitely, just a shame it wasn't made more extensible Jul 03 17:54:08 and it's the key thing I'd like to see opened up/expanded in both CE & OW Jul 03 17:54:27 ShiftyAxel: pretty sure that's fixable now :) Jul 03 17:54:43 ShiftyAxel: +1, when I requested documentation for Synergy Messaging, they declined and they said I've been the only one interested so far... -.- Jul 03 17:54:52 (they=HP) Jul 03 17:55:05 heh Jul 03 17:55:11 pc-world: most of the Synergy documentation is hiding under the Account Manager Jul 03 17:55:12 HP, meet EricBlade :) Jul 03 17:55:25 if it's in there, he'll find it ;) Jul 03 17:55:28 and the specifics to messaging i detailed on the gvoice blog a few days ago :) Jul 03 17:55:38 see :) Jul 03 17:55:50 EricBlade: Weren't you the one that posted the "inofficial" Synergy Messaging docs? Jul 03 17:56:00 EricBlade: ah, so you reworked your forum posts? Jul 03 17:56:03 that's me .. i've got a much better handle on it now than i did then Jul 03 17:56:21 EricBlade: where is your blog? Jul 03 17:56:26 amnoth: whoops, missed your last message. that's the correct output yes. Jul 03 17:56:29 http://www.ericbla.de/gvoice-webos Jul 03 17:56:48 the blog post is more a "this is all the fields that i can find that do something" Jul 03 17:58:13 check out http://projectgrande.wikispaces.com/ if/when you're bored or need inspiration for webOS hacks Jul 03 17:58:20 improvements, etc Jul 03 17:58:37 Stskeeps is the creator of it ^^ (he's lurking here too, it seems ;) ) Jul 03 17:59:00 ok, i think the power here is on for a while now, so hopefully i can be around for a while Jul 03 18:02:35 amnoth: I've updated the wiki page with the new info, would you mind taking a look and giving me your opinion? Jul 03 18:03:52 sure thing Jul 03 18:03:58 thanks :) Jul 03 18:04:14 Recent changes seems to be the only way to navigate the wiki. >.> Jul 03 18:04:47 ka6sox: the info on how to setup nfs under windows seems to have disappeared from the woce-be page, were there problems getting it to work? Jul 03 18:04:58 ShiftyAxel: thanks for the link to the idea tracker!! Was really hoping such a thing existed, and if not was going to suggest we make one :D Jul 03 18:05:41 amnoth: Yeah, I'm unsure why that is. I've only maintained the OSX section of the woce-be page thus far. Jul 03 18:06:23 +dtzWill: No worries :) feel free to spread the good word- I've been trying via the forums but there's only so much one guy's signature can do Jul 03 18:06:43 ShiftyAxel, the nfs server he had found was a 30 day fee trial :/ Jul 03 18:07:12 oh dear :( that old gotcha Jul 03 18:15:40 do any of you guys get a little 'click' sound from your computer when make finishes compiling? Jul 03 18:16:20 under my ubuntu vm, regardless of speaker volume (still happens on mute) my macbook makes a click noise Jul 03 18:16:50 i do not get a click Jul 03 18:16:57 but im sure i could program one in :D Jul 03 18:22:14 i'm just wondering why my laptop chooses to make the click… if the speakers are off then it would imply some other component emitting it Jul 03 18:22:57 perhaps it's a really short fan stall or something Jul 03 18:22:57 ShiftyAxel: Seems much more understandable to me at least. Sorry I was on the phone. Jul 03 18:23:11 no worries, irc's all about the patience ;) Jul 03 18:23:56 ShiftyAxel: hd spinning down? :/ Jul 03 18:24:22 i recently upgraded to a ssd, so there shouldn't be any moving parts... Jul 03 18:25:20 i thought it might be caused by heat, perhaps the unibody expanding/contracting a little and causing a creak Jul 03 18:25:33 but it's far too uniform for that, every time make finishes like clockwork Jul 03 18:25:35 So what does the woce-build do exactly? I see that it builds Luna but from what src? Jul 03 18:26:02 amnoth: by default it downloads woce/LunaSysMgr from github and builds that Jul 03 18:26:48 Ok. You say by default. So is there a way to build from a local src then? Jul 03 18:27:08 Also it failed to build, that's why I was wondering where the src was from. Jul 03 18:27:29 amnoth: http://webos-ports.org/wiki/WOCE_build_Instructions#Developer_Extras to use local directory for luna source Jul 03 18:27:35 ty Jul 03 18:27:51 failed to build you say, with what error? Jul 03 18:27:52 amnoth: But I'm interested in this failure--what happened? Jul 03 18:27:59 ../src/Src/base/WindowServer.cpp: In member function 'virtual bool WindowServer::processSystemShortcut(QEvent*)': Jul 03 18:28:54 anything further? that's just identifying the function where the build error occurred Jul 03 18:29:05 http://pastebin.com/4WHHTn93 Jul 03 18:29:12 People still use paste bin right? >.> Jul 03 18:30:11 yeah :p Jul 03 18:31:42 hmm, looks like dtzWill is more qualified than me to troubleshoot that Jul 03 18:31:49 (aka i got nothing) Jul 03 18:33:05 I actually just nuked my build and rebuilding from scratch atm, so might need to wait for that to finish first >.< Jul 03 18:34:20 i'm about to setup woce-be on my system, i wonder if i'll run into a similar error Jul 03 18:35:38 okay that's bizarre! WindowServer.cpp #include's "Time.h" earlier (and no error reported about not finding it) and Time.h defines " class Time {" ... Jul 03 18:36:27 This is building with the build env. Jul 03 18:36:36 Was just trying it out ... Jul 03 18:37:30 amnoth: woce-build? what platform/etc are you running on? Jul 03 18:38:44 10.7.4 using http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Woce-be Jul 03 18:38:51 how's this sound for a future idea -- thinking open webos, not CE unless someone gets CE building for other devices .. status bar location user configurable for left-right-top-bottom, and the status bar becomes a gesture area ? Jul 03 18:39:13 assuming, of course, that open webos even has the concept of gesture area Jul 03 18:39:30 EricBlade: How would you work around the app/device menus in that situation? Jul 03 18:39:53 well the magic of the VM BE is if you're seeing that others should too... at least you'd think so. hmmm. Jul 03 18:40:02 EricBlade: since advanced app switching requires touch start at the extreme left/right Jul 03 18:41:26 app switch could be done as is - bezel Jul 03 18:41:58 I cloned down the woce-build with Xcode… ? Jul 03 18:42:12 ls Jul 03 18:42:14 lol Jul 03 18:42:17 again with this Jul 03 18:42:53 amnoth: with Xcode? it's probably advisable to do the cloning with Terminal.app for reproducible results Jul 03 18:43:06 might not have anything to do with it, but i don't trust Xcode to leave stuff alone Jul 03 18:43:07 That's what I'm doing now. Jul 03 18:43:15 i was just thinking, looking at the windsornot, as well as combining it with my experience with Pre3, and iPod Touch, that a 3.7" + display, makes it kind of a pain in the ass to have a gesture area locked at the bottom, and I also dislike having the huge bezels ala Playbook Jul 03 18:43:30 git have cli to install for mac? Jul 03 18:43:51 oh yeah Jul 03 18:43:53 hm Jul 03 18:44:02 download it as a tarball/zip? Jul 03 18:44:03 but as far as app menu and system menu go, well, i'm not entirely sure Jul 03 18:44:09 nvm I'll use the be lol Jul 03 18:44:37 as well, if we're going to be running on devices that do not have any kind of touch sensitive areas outside their display .. Jul 03 18:45:16 this is true, i'm doubting that HP have any intention of continuing with a gesture area should they make hardware again Jul 03 18:46:51 amnoth: sorry, this seems to work for everyone so far so not sure where to begin. The error you're seeing is very surprising given the code it's referring to. Having a hard time coming up with reasons that would happen. Jul 03 18:47:06 ShiftyAxel: when you get the BE up can you confirm you aren't seeing that error? Jul 03 18:47:13 dtzWill: I'll clone it down again and try again, no worries. Jul 03 18:47:49 but can't think of how that'd happen either. oh well. My leading theory is somehow TIME_H is defined by system headers and breaks the include guard.... but that's a stretch Jul 03 18:47:50 +dtzWill: sure thing, just waiting on the download atm Jul 03 18:51:27 Ok, removed all that and changed the root of the nfs share. going to clone down with git on the be. Jul 03 18:52:50 Now following the build instructions, all the prereqs are already installed on the be right? nothing to do but git and make? Jul 03 18:52:59 *assumed* Jul 03 18:53:25 vagrant is a cool idea btw. Never seen it before. Jul 03 18:54:28 My wife is taking a week vaca with the kids on Sunday so get used to my arse. ;) Jul 03 18:56:05 amnoth: not sure about the dependencies, i tested on a vanilla precise32 box. probably best to follow the woce-build wiki page to the letter, just to be safe Jul 03 18:56:34 Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of the build-env? Jul 03 18:58:07 hmm. the Open webOS Novacom documentation has disappeared Jul 03 18:58:52 amnoth: i was referring to stuff like python, unzip etc. i don't know if they're installed, so it can't hurt to run a few sudo apt-get install commands just in case Jul 03 18:59:31 understood. Jul 03 19:00:56 amnoth: it does defeat the purpose for sure. however, even so I'm not sure what would get you so far in the build to fail on that. very curious Jul 03 19:01:49 dtzWill: Heh, well, she's building again. Jul 03 19:02:08 Only difference this time was I used BE git instead of Xcode to clone. Jul 03 19:02:24 amnoth: btw, did you have to quit out virtualbox using activity monitor after setting up woce-be? mine sets up and installs fine, but starts the vm without a window so i have to manually kill it and restart in order to get anything visible Jul 03 19:03:08 Um, I didn't know it was supposed to start up anything visual actually. Jul 03 19:03:22 I just used vagrant ssh and am using it that way. Jul 03 19:03:30 So I guess yes if I wanted to see the VM? Jul 03 19:04:06 aha, i see Jul 03 19:04:39 I built this a few days ago w/o any issues but that was on an ubuntu laptop. Jul 03 19:06:31 ShiftyAxel: Like I said, I had never heard of vagrant before yesterday. So I don't really understand what it does other than opens vboxes... Jul 03 19:06:58 tbh i think your approach is the intended one, i didn't do a hell of a lot of reading during testing Jul 03 19:07:02 it was 4AM and stuff :P Jul 03 19:07:18 dependencies are all there already btw Jul 03 19:08:49 wow, 'vagrant ssh' is so much easier than my method Jul 03 19:08:51 whoops >_> Jul 03 19:10:13 +dtzWill: beginning the build now, let's see what we've got Jul 03 19:11:41 dtzWill: Same thing :( Jul 03 19:12:15 Is this thing a 32bit of 64bit ubuntu vm? Jul 03 19:12:59 nvm, seems like everything listed in the build inst. is installed. Jul 03 19:14:03 dtzWill: You said it's still building right for you though? Jul 03 19:16:01 amnoth: well I don't use the be/vm approach, just on bare linux hosts Jul 03 19:16:08 but yes Jul 03 19:35:01 Hrm. Jul 03 19:37:20 I guess I'll try my Linux host again. Jul 03 19:40:32 ShiftyAxel: What do you mean about your "Swipe Away Notifications" entry on pivotal? Jul 03 19:41:38 being able to close the notifications panel by swiping up/down on it Jul 03 19:42:00 Oh, the whole panel. Gotcha. Jul 03 19:42:02 makes things a little bit more fluid/tactile Jul 03 19:42:15 *Like Jul 03 19:42:57 ideally the notifications would move with the finger too, as should lots and lots of things that don't atm Jul 03 19:43:56 i'll update the entry to clarify, i think Jul 03 19:44:49 ShiftyAxel: You the only one that posts to pivotal? lol Jul 03 19:45:00 one of about 3 people i think :p Jul 03 19:45:13 I applause your dedication. Jul 03 19:45:31 why thank you, i have a very active mind when it comes to design and stuff like that Jul 03 19:45:50 i'd like to get as many people as possible posting to pivotal, so tell your friends! :D Jul 03 19:46:43 ShiftyAxel: Were you able to build using the BE? Jul 03 19:46:55 just checked, it failed with the same error Jul 03 19:47:08 Booo Jul 03 19:47:22 +dtzWill: Was it always using Qt 4.8? I thought it was 4.7 before… Or am I imagining things? Jul 03 19:48:02 I'm goanna try compiling in the share using my Ubuntu VM, see if it gives the same issues Jul 03 19:48:29 ka6sox: do you see the error ShiftyAxel and amnoth are seeing with the BE? Jul 03 19:48:38 Well, I created a ubuntu vm myself and followed the build inst it's building now. Jul 03 19:54:12 Build Success! New LunaSysMgr available at: Jul 03 19:54:55 Yeah, seems like something's wrong with the build env vm. Jul 03 19:55:28 weird, well i'm sure it'll get fixed shortly :) Jul 03 19:55:51 cmd+w the wrong thing…I'm not very good with computers I guess. Jul 03 19:59:01 so what is the recommended ide to use anymore? Jul 03 20:04:02 folks Jul 03 20:04:37 * bhuey is wowed by the amount of chat activity here Jul 03 20:05:14 Sarcasm? Jul 03 20:08:33 Let's find that pesky launcher button... Jul 03 20:09:20 * halfhalo noms on button Jul 03 20:10:40 amnoth: planning something awesome? Jul 03 20:10:54 Ha, I don't know enough cpp to do anything but break this sucker. Jul 03 20:11:03 welcome to my world Jul 03 20:12:22 haha, everyone's gotta start somewhere :p Jul 03 20:12:24 Right now just trying to figure out the best way to navigate the code base. Wondering what people use besides Xcode lol. Jul 03 20:12:48 interesting, doing stuff inside the nfs share under the ubuntu guest is reeeeeeally slow Jul 03 20:12:51 like I'm actually impressed, really Jul 03 20:13:22 It's hard to debug stuff unless you get off production kernels Jul 03 20:13:22 amnoth: I use finder's search function, it's really versatile if you use the Contains option Jul 03 20:13:32 and add addition bits of instrumentation Jul 03 20:13:34 * halfhalo just gets other people to code for him. Whether they know it or not. Jul 03 20:13:42 hi Jul 03 20:13:50 amnoth: Then I use TextWrangler for my actual editing Jul 03 20:13:51 speak of the devil! Jul 03 20:13:58 morning ka6sox Jul 03 20:14:01 it's why I think there should be a dedicated machine that can build internal kernels for us so that we don't break the wireless driver ABIs and stuff Jul 03 20:15:03 I remember people used to use TextMate or something like that? Jul 03 20:15:18 Maybe coda 2 will work. >.> Jul 03 20:16:44 * halfhalo hearts textmate Jul 03 20:16:49 ShiftyAxel what is the issue? Jul 03 20:16:55 amnoth, same question? Jul 03 20:17:10 ka6sox: 'morning! :) Jul 03 20:17:20 http://pastebin.com/4WHHTn93 Jul 03 20:17:22 morning dtzWill Jul 03 20:17:27 Issue? Well, earlier I typed my password into chat..So that's how my day started... Jul 03 20:17:46 the build complains that Time isn't defined, but only inside the be vm Jul 03 20:18:03 and ShiftyAxel just posted the build error the build env vm seems to get. Jul 03 20:18:16 ka6sox: apparently we're seeing build failures using the BE, but not elsewhere. being just another host I'm not even sure what could be different about the VM taht'd cause such a failure Jul 03 20:18:22 but thought I'd rope you in JIC you knew something Jul 03 20:18:59 why is it looking @ the host for that informatoin Jul 03 20:19:05 (since its host dependent) Jul 03 20:19:10 (the error that is) Jul 03 20:20:50 ShiftyAxel, didn't you build inside the VM before? Jul 03 20:20:50 bit of background: /srv (for me) contains doctors, downloads & share. share is mapped to my Github folder, which contains woce-build. I cd into /srv/share/woce-build and run make, then it errors Jul 03 20:21:02 I did, but that was the precise32 one that I setup myself Jul 03 20:22:17 I don't think i did the build inside the share that time though Jul 03 20:22:29 I'll test with woce-be just in the home folder Jul 03 20:24:05 kk Jul 03 20:24:18 its not $TIME its TIME Jul 03 20:24:25 so I dunno about that... Jul 03 20:24:40 best to ask the build folks. Jul 03 20:25:46 So I've seen all these videos of tweaks to ce on "the nation" there a change log or patch something log at a place I can't find? Jul 03 20:26:08 interesting Jul 03 20:26:26 i just got a kernel panic Jul 03 20:26:33 You're welcome. Jul 03 20:26:40 evidently osx gets panicky when you run too many VMs Jul 03 20:26:47 I miss anything? Jul 03 20:27:13 ka6sox gave everyone that was here $100000! Jul 03 20:27:27 All you had to do was type a . :( Jul 03 20:27:36 what? Jul 03 20:27:52 * ka6sox missed the memo Jul 03 20:27:57 heh Jul 03 20:28:21 Again, I can't over explain how much I hate this button... Jul 03 20:28:24 dang, so much for getting rich quick :p Jul 03 20:28:39 amnoth: you're actually trying to kill it, i take it? Jul 03 20:28:56 Even when you press it to take from sleep it brings up the launcher... Jul 03 20:29:01 I hate you HP guy that added the button!!!! Jul 03 20:30:10 was it like that before WOCE? I only properly noticed it quite recently Jul 03 20:30:25 though that might be because it's been plugged into my laptop almost exclusively Jul 03 20:31:06 The button? I haven't even loaded woce. This is 3.0.5. I wanted to find a change log or something before installing woce. Jul 03 20:31:23 Trying to figure out github... Jul 03 20:31:52 what is this changelog you speak of? Jul 03 20:32:20 So I've seen all these videos of tweaks to ce on "the nation" there a change log or patch something log at a place I can't find? Jul 03 20:32:26 I said that while you were d/cing I guess. Jul 03 20:32:54 if you're looking for 3.0.5 -> woce changes then you're out of luck i'm afraid Jul 03 20:33:03 or are those just local patches people are playing with. Jul 03 20:33:28 those are all community-made Jul 03 20:34:16 in terms of what i've noticed since i installed woce, it feels a bit snappier in general and the PDK is utterly farked Jul 03 20:35:12 so no games, xecutah, etc Jul 03 20:35:51 Hmmm. So I only see like 3 commits in the LunaSysMgr. So all this other stuff isn't added to the master branch? Jul 03 20:36:35 i think the majority of it is under the pull requests tab Jul 03 20:37:01 some of them aren't even there yet, following webosports on twitter is how i discovered the majority of them Jul 03 20:37:26 Ok, checked the source link on wn pcworld asking the same question I am to dukiedrew? Jul 03 20:38:03 eh? Jul 03 20:38:49 https://twitter.com/dukiedrew/status/219331285179564033 Jul 03 20:40:57 I see you were talking to him already. Jul 03 20:41:22 ShiftyAxel, anything? Jul 03 20:41:34 (I am *attempting* to work a bit) Jul 03 20:42:01 Build Success! for me in the home dir using vagrant Jul 03 20:42:08 You've got good timing sir. Jul 03 20:42:21 so the issue maybe the nfs variant? Jul 03 20:42:30 So NFS issue? What rights that giving I didn't look. Jul 03 20:43:14 sounds like an ifs thing, mine's still downloading the required stuff'n'things(tm) Jul 03 20:43:28 *nfs Jul 03 20:43:32 bloody autocorrect Jul 03 20:43:39 Ha ha! You should not work at work and use their Internet like me! Jul 03 20:44:17 alas, i'm stuck on sky uk's relatively disappointing copper cable service Jul 03 20:44:35 amnoth, I am self-employed...it is taking all my willpower not to ignore work right now... Jul 03 20:46:06 Eh? I meant him downloading. Jul 03 20:47:59 amnoth, np...I just have to keep putting xchat in the background. Jul 03 20:48:50 ew, xchat Jul 03 20:50:34 halfhalo: Running IRC as root is stupid. Jul 03 20:50:54 Good old xchat... Jul 03 20:51:00 but root IS my user! Jul 03 20:51:16 * halfhalo says that from the crappiest windows irc client in the world Jul 03 20:51:27 which suprisingly isn't xchat Jul 03 20:51:58 windows is so trusting :p Jul 03 20:52:05 mirc! mirc! Jul 03 20:52:13 bleh Jul 03 20:52:55 ShiftyAxel: So anyone that connects to the NFS gets mapped to the UID we put in right? If I understand the man right. Jul 03 20:53:08 yeah, that's correct Jul 03 20:53:14 Man, I haven't used NFS is so long. There's no auth on NFS? Jul 03 20:54:21 auth is done on the host side through the /etc/exports, /etc/hosts.allow and /etc/hosts.deny files Jul 03 20:55:13 you can specify specific IP addresses that can connect inside exports, and hosts.allow/deny lets you explicitly allow or deny certain hosts through Jul 03 20:58:03 I assume on the vbox settings you've got a host only network with static ips right? so the fstab is connecting to 10.0.2.2 which is my box…. Jul 03 20:58:37 that's something you'll have to ask ka6sox Jul 03 20:58:58 nvm, it's not important to the problem I would guess. Jul 03 20:59:03 I was just making sure I understood. Jul 03 20:59:21 though judging from the VirtualBox prefs->networking tab, there are no host-only networks configured Jul 03 20:59:24 aha, fair enough Jul 03 20:59:27 we are setting up our vboxes with NAT Jul 03 20:59:37 vbox chose 10.0.2.2 as the defaults Jul 03 20:59:40 (iirc) Jul 03 20:59:54 and generally thats pretty safe (except inside of a large corp net) Jul 03 20:59:57 yeah, it was the default Jul 03 21:00:22 ka6sox: build succeeded, looks like it's the NFS causing the issue Jul 03 21:00:44 ShiftyAxel, so we need to figure out what is happening Jul 03 21:01:01 suggest we setup ntp inside the vm (although that doesn't make sense either) Jul 03 21:01:39 network time protocol? Jul 03 21:03:29 I don't know what that is about... Jul 03 21:05:51 eh? i'm not following this Jul 03 21:06:32 perhaps rwhitby could throw some light on proceedings, since he's got a working NFS setup Jul 03 21:07:22 ShiftyAxel, ya.... Jul 03 21:07:35 once the sun makes its way 'round that direction. Jul 03 21:08:42 haha, yes indeed Jul 03 21:09:00 i'll do a bit of googling in the meantime, though this is a pretty specific use case so i'm not expecting much Jul 03 21:09:43 we may write the use case for it here... Jul 03 21:13:54 so, i don't know what the cause of the weird app stacking is, but Spaz HD still stacks weirdly when launching new Jul 03 21:14:50 weirdly, you say? Jul 03 21:18:26 ka6sox: a thought- couldn't we symlink/copy the source into the be's home dir for the build? copying would probably add unnecessary time to the build process, but a symlink might be able to trick it into not breaking Jul 03 21:23:04 okay we can try that Jul 03 21:23:18 this would be inside the VM or in the host? Jul 03 21:24:11 i'm trying inside the vm at the moment, ln -s /srv/share/woce-build ~/build Jul 03 21:24:34 it seems to be taking a very, very long time to unpack the doctor rootfs though Jul 03 21:25:33 how much RAM, how many Vcpus? etc? Jul 03 21:25:41 ls Jul 03 21:25:44 ... Jul 03 21:25:57 1Gb RAM, 2 VCPUs Jul 03 21:25:59 using make -j3 Jul 03 21:26:22 ran way faster when operating directly in the share and on non-linked woce-build inside the home dir Jul 03 21:26:57 so the NFS is a killer Jul 03 21:30:34 it's strange, it was fine without the symlink, but it behaved like this under my ubuntu vm with no symlink Jul 03 21:30:44 strange stuff Jul 03 21:38:38 * bhuey would like to see a default Ubuntu jail for webOS devices Jul 03 21:39:04 compiling stuff like nmap for webOS devices is just stupid Jul 03 21:39:08 just download the binary and done Jul 03 21:52:13 ka6sox: hmm, interesting. activity monitor's showing the file indexer taking up 96%ish of my CPU Jul 03 21:52:26 i wonder if it's trying to index the changing files in the share or something Jul 03 21:52:52 ka6sox: if you folks used an Ubuntu jail you can install the NFS supporting binaries without having to cross-compile them yourself Jul 03 21:57:41 we're not installing nfs to a webOS device, it's for communicating between a VM build environment and it's host os Jul 03 21:58:11 for purposes of editing code in whatever IDE you like, then compiling them in an environment that'll definitely work Jul 03 22:01:48 ok Jul 03 22:01:51 oh Jul 03 22:02:34 you folks made a VM build image for compiling webOS binaries ? Jul 03 22:02:44 * bhuey is out of the loop regarding these issues Jul 03 22:03:56 ka6sox mostly, i'm helping test :) Jul 03 22:04:03 have a look here for more info: http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Woce-be Jul 03 22:04:39 I love virtualbox Jul 03 22:05:00 as an environment it works perfectly, except for when you try to compile things inside an NFS share, which is what we're attempting to fix Jul 03 22:05:09 yeah, vbox is awesome Jul 03 22:05:34 though the lack of an option to map cmd to ctrl under OSX bugs me slightly Jul 03 22:07:41 one of my Windows images is corrupted on vbox Jul 03 22:08:33 isn't happy about a dll that's missing or thrashed Jul 03 22:08:46 asked me to manually copy it over from the Windows install image Jul 03 22:08:51 h Jul 03 22:08:52 uh Jul 03 22:08:57 "screw it' Jul 03 22:23:28 amnoth, any ideas? Jul 03 22:25:17 wb ShiftyAxel Jul 03 22:25:29 greetings Jul 03 22:26:01 i decided to reboot, see if it would clear up the slow access to nfs shares. no luck though. Jul 03 22:46:04 ShiftyAxel, anythign bettter? Jul 03 22:47:39 ka6sox: Nope, nothing. It's strange, I could swear the first time I built it under woce-be there was no performance issue Jul 03 22:48:19 amnoth: how was your build performance when trying to compile inside the share? Jul 03 23:03:35 interesting... "palm-stuart-eichert created branch build-with-openwebos-qt at isis-project/isis-project an hour ago" Jul 03 23:04:35 interesting indeed, progress! Jul 03 23:11:50 possible bug, although i think it's more an error in documentation .. the Just Type documentation say you can provide a "url" field in the description which will set the thing to launch when you trigger it .. doesn't work Jul 03 23:16:45 anyone locate Just Type launching yet? it appears that the documented "launchParamDbField" does not function in the slightest Jul 03 23:17:03 i'm thinking it might not be in here, though Jul 03 23:22:42 you mean the process? Jul 03 23:23:12 yeah the actual stuff that does the just type .. looks like we don't have it, just a bunch of code associated with showing it Jul 03 23:23:31 EricBlade: I get the feeling that it's another component of the OS- I did a finder search for 'justtype' in the rootfs and it popped out a bunch of files in /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/ Jul 03 23:23:36 right, it is another process Jul 03 23:23:56 root 2010 0.0 0.4 16788 4244 ? SLs Jul01 1:09 /usr/bin/LunaUniversalSearchMgr Jul 03 23:25:42 ka6sox: tried compiling with the share mounted in /home/vagrant/share, no joy again Jul 03 23:28:38 interesting Jul 03 23:29:02 [1472375.853698] EXT4-fs (sda1): Unaligned AIO/DIO on inode 24 by VirtualBox; performance will be poor. Jul 03 23:47:20 ka6sox: performance issues seem to have resolved though after deleting and redownloaded the box Jul 03 23:47:28 *redownloading Jul 03 23:56:38 ShiftyAxel, dukiedrew_away EricBlade : has anyone given any thought as to how we are going to enable/disable "features" (not the UI side...inside of LunaSysMgr? Jul 03 23:56:38 ) Jul 03 23:57:41 I think after a settings change we will need to do a luna reset like with patches. Jul 03 23:58:06 yupyup Jul 04 00:00:01 and we *could* switch back and forth between stock and CE as well easily Jul 04 00:01:40 * halfhalo is not alone in having his irc client kick him from znc on connect!' Jul 04 00:06:31 well how does the system normally do it? you can change, for example, Advanced Gestures setting, without rebooting Jul 04 00:10:31 probably via a PalmService call, which then sets some kind of variable to enable the functionality Jul 04 00:11:35 that's a point, my gesture rewrite doesn't take the advanced gestures setting into account Jul 04 00:11:50 okay so not using AIOSettings? Jul 04 00:12:11 instead Advanced Gestures? Jul 04 00:12:17 nah, i meant that's how i think it's done atm Jul 04 00:12:33 the PalmService call could be done from within AIOSettings (and i'm up for using it, seems sensible to me) Jul 04 00:12:35 too bad we dont' have 2.X code Jul 04 00:13:11 using a Palmservice Call would be nice and simple Jul 04 00:13:23 anyone know -where- the settings apps are? Jul 04 00:13:44 on-device? Jul 04 00:14:01 yea Jul 04 00:14:57 in /usr/palm/applications according to finder Jul 04 00:15:13 ex. /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.screenlock Jul 04 00:15:26 ah, derp Jul 04 00:15:57 let me know what we need...no guarantees..but I can try :D Jul 04 00:16:26 how about the Just Type process? :0 Jul 04 00:16:32 looks like it uses a call to palm://com.palm.systemservice/getPreferences Jul 04 00:16:36 or setPreferences Jul 04 00:18:50 so are we agreed that we will use AIOSettings as the "one settings app to rule them all"? Jul 04 00:19:02 * ShiftyAxel raises hand Jul 04 00:19:02 aye Jul 04 00:19:10 well, I don't know how it works at this exact moment, but Preferences.cpp seems to implement the com.palm.systemservice Jul 04 00:20:15 looks like it references a '/var/luna/preferences/systemprefs.db' Jul 04 00:20:32 presumably where the preferences are stored during runtime Jul 04 00:21:33 though it doesn't look like it's present in the roots, which would imply it's created on first boot or something like that Jul 04 00:23:31 i'm not entirely certain if it implements it or if it just interfaces to it Jul 04 00:25:52 looks like it is an interface to it, not the actual implementation Jul 04 00:26:27 yeah, lots of LSCalls to more system services Jul 04 00:27:07 ok, it subscribes to the com.palm.systemservice/getPreferences and holds onto any settings it needs in memory Jul 04 00:27:33 and then whenever they change at the service, the service sends the subscription notification to Luna, which would automatically adjust Jul 04 00:28:01 so what stuffs the db? Jul 04 00:32:44 looks like an SQLite3 database, I just pulled mine off the TP Jul 04 00:34:55 https://github.com/Choorp/AIOSettings/blob/master/source/App.js Jul 04 00:35:11 ShiftyAxel, so we can stuff the db from a file like govnah does. Jul 04 00:35:14 it just cross-launches the settings apps Jul 04 00:35:42 * ka6sox steps back from the keyboard... :D Jul 04 00:35:42 doesn't do any settings manipulation Jul 04 00:36:27 I think they are looking at the preferences for LSM and how that code works. Jul 04 00:36:34 (the LSM side) Jul 04 00:36:44 right, but the settings are all seperate apps Jul 04 00:36:46 i think it doesn't depend on the database itself, it grabs a few things from the database for use early in the startup, and then it gets the majority of stuff from the service Jul 04 00:37:05 you would need to create the settings app then you could make AIOSettings open your app in its frame Jul 04 00:37:36 it gets the device lock timeout, and the locale and region information directly from the database, everything else comes in when the service comes up Jul 04 00:42:06 ka6sox: we could always use Tweaks for Luna modifications? That already has a PalmService implementation and all that gubbins Jul 04 00:42:39 i wonder if we just throw new properties at that service would it hold them? Jul 04 00:42:56 hmm, might be worth a test Jul 04 00:44:20 so make this a tweaks implementation? Jul 04 00:45:24 looks like it'll take anything you throw at it Jul 04 00:45:50 luna-send -n 1 -a com.palm.app.settings palm://com.palm.systemservice/setPreferences '{"whatever":"blahblah"}' Jul 04 00:45:53 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Tweaks#Patch_Developers Jul 04 00:46:11 luna-send -n 1 -a com.palm.app.settings palm://com.palm.systemservice/getPreferences '{"keys":["whatever"]}' Jul 04 00:46:21 EricBlade: https://developer.palm.com/content/api/reference/services/system-services.html#getPreferences Jul 04 00:46:25 { "whatever": "blahblah", "returnValue": true } Jul 04 00:46:39 so it works? Jul 04 00:46:48 i've never personally used it Jul 04 00:47:48 ok, this is why i was under the impression that this was not somethign to be used .. "The preferences database is not secure. Apps should not rely on it for system settings or storing data. Apps that require persistent storage should use the db8 database." Jul 04 00:48:16 how does tweaks do it? Jul 04 00:48:21 store it in a db8? Jul 04 00:48:29 it sounds like from that, that it's something subject to random erase .. but I guess, that it means, that it's actually just subject to "any app could overwrite it" Jul 04 00:48:33 you write a json file to a folder Jul 04 00:48:49 that explains the options/how to change them Jul 04 00:49:12 im not sure how it stores the settings (i havent looked at the code) Jul 04 00:49:22 thats a question for sconix Jul 04 00:49:53 ka6sox: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Tweaks#Sample_JSON_File Jul 04 00:49:56 that is really bizarre that that entire service is open for public Jul 04 00:50:13 why? Jul 04 00:50:58 with all the other stuff that is not changeable due to security reasons, it's weird that there's a whole host of stuff that is Jul 04 00:52:24 yup Jul 04 00:52:39 okay I just emailed the author of tweaks asking for pointers... Jul 04 00:52:52 Luna subscribes to: ringtone, alerttone, notificationtone, region, timeFormat, wallpaper, dockwallpaper, systemSounds, showAlertsWhenLocked, BlinkNotifications, imeEnabled, imeType, sysUiNoHomeButtonMode, sysUiEnableNextPrevGestures, airplaneMode, hideWANAlert, roamingIndicator, dualRSSI, lockTimeout, rotationLock, muteSound, enableVoiceCommand, enableALS, and .. whatever PALM_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD_PREFS and PALM_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD_SETTIN Jul 04 00:53:43 ka6sox: hey I still need you to add me Jul 04 00:56:42 the keyboard prefs contain your tapSound setting, spaces to periods setting, and the list of enabled keyboards Jul 04 00:56:49 jhojho, what do you need added to? sorry...been a bit crazy Jul 04 00:57:09 and the keyboard settings apparently store the currently active layout, language, and keyboard size Jul 04 00:57:32 what do people think about defaulting to encrypted search? Jul 04 01:04:03 sounds like a good branch to test! :D Jul 04 01:06:39 It looks like sysUiNoHomeButtonMode disables CoreNavi events for up/downswipes, presumably for devices without a gesture area Jul 04 01:07:07 jhojho: encrypted as in https or something along those lines? Jul 04 01:07:41 yes. patching from before did not work as the source was not avail. Jul 04 01:07:46 secure is always good, so long as it doesn't introduce any significant downsides (not that i can think of any off the top of my head) Jul 04 01:08:14 now that source is avail. its at least viable to make it an option Jul 04 01:08:25 and I rather default to it than not. Jul 04 01:08:50 its entirely possible to keep the orig as an alternate option Jul 04 01:09:03 lets test and see how it goes :D Jul 04 01:09:27 it should work fine. the patch for pre3 works fine. Jul 04 01:09:31 sounds good Jul 04 01:10:03 the problem is there is a lot of halfassedness between what was hardcoded into LunaSysMgr vs a patchable json/js file Jul 04 01:10:54 i think i'm goanna call it a night, catch you guys later Jul 04 01:11:00 jhojho, making it patchable and selectable is best Jul 04 01:11:02 all released devices except the touchpad were patchable or could use the opensearch spec Jul 04 01:11:03 ShiftyAxel, nite Jul 04 01:11:05 thanks! Jul 04 01:11:34 ka6sox: its going to have to be a code change (compile) for touchpad Jul 04 01:11:44 ive tried the other way and it just doesnt work. Jul 04 01:11:53 yes, but make it selectable via Tweaks Jul 04 01:12:11 it will be selectable direct from the prefs. no need for tweaks Jul 04 01:12:24 which prefs? Jul 04 01:12:41 conf/defaultPreferences.txt Jul 04 01:13:06 hmmm.... Jul 04 01:13:26 make that so that its tweakifyable and we are good. Jul 04 01:13:40 since we are trying to unify this...not fragment it. Jul 04 01:14:43 so, it looks to me, like, probably the best way to add new preferences internally, is to add them to the list of things monitored in Preferences::serverConnectCallback, handle interpreting the settings in Preferences::getPreferencesCallback, and then we can just access Preferences::instace()->someQueryFunction() to get the status of the setting from memory Jul 04 01:15:24 and we wouldn't even need a palm domain app for it Jul 04 01:15:39 EricBlade, where are the persistent bits (like whats available when it starts up) gonna live? Jul 04 01:16:18 in json files that tweaks can see? Jul 04 01:16:18 that one i don't know -- will we need anything before the prefs service is connected? Jul 04 01:16:49 I'd really like to know how we set the Advanced Gestures are persistent across reboots. Jul 04 01:17:02 s/are/that are/ Jul 04 01:17:02 ka6sox meant: I'd really like to know how we set the Advanced Gestures that are persistent across reboots. Jul 04 01:17:07 the service persists it, somehow or other Jul 04 01:17:29 stock doesn't have those bits Jul 04 01:17:53 so when we add advanced gestures we need to make those options available to tweaks I assume to allow that to be written. Jul 04 01:18:20 i'm confused Jul 04 01:20:10 sorry, I am probably waaaaaay off base here... Jul 04 01:20:20 I will retire Jul 04 01:25:09 bbl Jul 04 02:37:12 evening Jul 04 02:47:17 webOSdev: @ekdikeo @openwebosdev We're redoing parts of the documentation now! Jul 04 02:56:17 i didn't think i would be too much into the sideswipe thing, but i find myself using it a lot. way more than on iOS, considering on iOS I know each app is going to restart when I swipe to it Jul 04 02:57:34 that's awful Jul 04 02:59:02 who thought up that scheme ? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 04 02:59:58 2012