**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 25 02:59:58 2012
Jul 25 03:22:54 <dukiedrew> this would probably be a lot of work, but cool
Jul 25 03:22:59 <dukiedrew> with these UI tweaks
Jul 25 03:23:11 <dukiedrew> if the user does something that there's a tweak for, and it is turned off
Jul 25 03:23:22 <dukiedrew> a notification pops up the first time they do that
Jul 25 03:23:27 <dukiedrew> asking if they'd like it enabled
Jul 25 03:24:35 <dukiedrew> so the "multitouch card stacking" change is now tweakified
Jul 25 03:24:46 <dukiedrew> should I do a "pull request" for that individually?
Jul 25 03:24:57 <dukiedrew> and then start anew with tabbed cards?
Jul 25 03:25:09 <dukiedrew> or just do all these various tweaks in one version?
Jul 25 03:25:26 <dukiedrew> (ie with 2 separate tweaks (3 counting infinite card cycling)
Jul 25 03:28:12 <dukiedrew> i'm just gonna keep adding to this version
Jul 25 04:27:14 <rwhitby> dukiedrew: if you can make them 3 separate independent changes, that would be best
Jul 25 04:40:53 <ka6sox> morning
Jul 25 04:47:36 <ka6sox> I thought this was going to only work with 3.0.0 as a minimum?
Jul 25 04:47:41 <ka6sox> (tweaks)
Jul 25 05:11:32 <dukiedrew> hmm, well the two small ones are in one version
Jul 25 05:11:39 <dukiedrew> i can separate the tabbed card one
Jul 25 05:11:54 <dukiedrew> [although there's one bug in the multi-touch card stacking i can't quite figure out yet]
Jul 25 05:12:07 <dukiedrew> basically sometimes the first touch to launch an event crashes luna
Jul 25 05:12:24 <dukiedrew> if you wait to let luna "warm up", there doesn't seem to be an issue
Jul 25 05:13:33 <ka6sox> mmm...thats an interesting one.
Jul 25 05:14:45 <dukiedrew> yeah, i can't crash it except within the first moments luna is active
Jul 25 05:16:09 <ka6sox> if its tweaksified...can you turn it off and the issue goes away?
Jul 25 05:16:26 <dukiedrew> as far as i can tell
Jul 25 05:17:48 <dukiedrew> this also happened in my non-tweakified version
Jul 25 05:18:45 <ka6sox> ah, okay
Jul 25 05:18:59 <ka6sox> is this tabs or the other one?
Jul 25 05:19:02 <ka6sox> (stacking?)
Jul 25 05:19:05 <dukiedrew> the stacking
Jul 25 05:19:39 <dukiedrew> i'm doing those two first b/c their changes are smaller
Jul 25 05:19:46 <dukiedrew> stacking & infinite cards
Jul 25 05:20:28 <dukiedrew> must be something in memory that i haven't dbl-checked
Jul 25 05:24:31 <ka6sox> c++ makes my head hurt
Jul 25 05:24:44 <scoutcamper> heh
Jul 25 05:25:28 <ka6sox> 45 parallel terms in VHDL...thats fun :D
Jul 25 05:30:26 <dukiedrew> ok...resetting it 5 times so far no crash
Jul 25 05:30:29 <dukiedrew> hopefully 5 more times]
Jul 25 05:30:44 <ka6sox> :D
Jul 25 05:31:31 * dukiedrew hopes someone is working on making luna restarts faster... :)
Jul 25 05:35:11 <ka6sox> dukiedrew, I believe a lot of that is setting up the 2 FrameBuffers...
Jul 25 05:35:18 <ka6sox> FB0 and FB1
Jul 25 05:35:40 <ka6sox> it has to clear memory (reallocate) into Kernel Space.
Jul 25 05:36:07 <ka6sox> if we ever get to Systemd that might go a lot quicker.
Jul 25 05:36:19 <dukiedrew> what's systemd?
Jul 25 05:36:30 <ka6sox> a replacement for SysV init
Jul 25 05:36:34 <dukiedrew> is it written in VHDL? ;-)
Jul 25 05:36:49 <ka6sox> it takes the init from 30+seconds to <5seconds
Jul 25 05:36:57 <dukiedrew> whoa
Jul 25 05:36:57 <ka6sox> I wish...
Jul 25 05:37:01 <ka6sox> its written in C
Jul 25 05:37:05 <dukiedrew> how come?
Jul 25 05:37:11 <ka6sox> moves init stuff into the kernel.
Jul 25 05:37:20 <ka6sox> where its FAST.
Jul 25 05:37:29 <dukiedrew> what's the downside?
Jul 25 05:37:35 <dukiedrew> ie why didn't they do it before?
Jul 25 05:37:48 <ka6sox> its a PITA to modify things.
Jul 25 05:37:54 <ka6sox> since its *in* the kernel.
Jul 25 05:37:59 <ka6sox> (in kernel space)
Jul 25 05:38:15 <ka6sox> everything that uses sysVinit has to be redone to use systemd
Jul 25 05:38:36 <ka6sox> the kernel has to have cgroups and other permissions bits setup correctly
Jul 25 05:38:52 <dukiedrew> hmm
Jul 25 05:38:53 <dukiedrew> ok
Jul 25 05:38:58 <ka6sox> it does set us up for very good RT performance however in the future.
Jul 25 05:39:17 <ka6sox> and a much better priority system for handling things.
Jul 25 05:39:37 <dukiedrew> is that what other devices use?
Jul 25 05:39:45 <dukiedrew> ie how ipads start up so quickly?
Jul 25 05:39:56 <ka6sox> no, iOS uses something else...
Jul 25 05:40:09 <ka6sox> (most likely..but with a seriously walled garden who knows???)
Jul 25 05:40:18 <dukiedrew> still, that's pretty exciting
Jul 25 05:40:23 <ka6sox> it is...
Jul 25 05:40:29 <ka6sox> but it does have downsides...
Jul 25 05:40:43 <ka6sox> its a lot harder to initially setup.
Jul 25 05:41:02 <dukiedrew> well, in general that's true for anything that is faster down the road
Jul 25 05:41:03 <ka6sox> but once its done it is much faster (order of magnitude)
Jul 25 05:41:19 <dukiedrew> okay, 2 more restarts
Jul 25 05:41:25 <dukiedrew> then i'm saying i fixed it
Jul 25 05:41:33 <ka6sox> kk...good
Jul 25 05:41:46 <ka6sox> for now I doubt we will see it anytime soon in either CE or OWOS
Jul 25 05:41:46 <dukiedrew> BTW, I change m_group from QVector to QList
Jul 25 05:42:14 <ka6sox> I'm sure that EricBlade and ShiftyAxel understand that bit...
Jul 25 05:42:17 <dukiedrew> i highly doubt it affects anyone else's patches
Jul 25 05:42:20 <ka6sox> I work on lower level stuff :D
Jul 25 05:42:25 <dukiedrew> it is a means by which Qt stores arrays
Jul 25 05:42:32 <dukiedrew> QVector = everything stored in same area of memory
Jul 25 05:42:37 <dukiedrew> QList = stored wherever
Jul 25 05:42:47 <ka6sox> aha...
Jul 25 05:42:50 <dukiedrew> QList makes more sense when you're removing and rearranging things
Jul 25 05:43:13 <dukiedrew> [although at the # of cards typically used, it probably doesn't matter]
Jul 25 05:43:20 <ka6sox> good...we shall see if either of them say anything.
Jul 25 05:43:23 <dukiedrew> but using QList lets you use more intuitive functions
Jul 25 05:43:28 <dukiedrew> well, one
Jul 25 05:43:30 <dukiedrew> removeAt()
Jul 25 05:43:30 <EricBlade> I think dukie and Shifty have a far better understanding of QT than I do
Jul 25 05:43:57 <dukiedrew> okay, these two are done [but one]
Jul 25 05:44:21 <dukiedrew> time to google pull requests
Jul 25 05:44:51 <dukiedrew> also, for the tweaks,
Jul 25 05:45:00 <dukiedrew> has there been any discussion on categories?
Jul 25 05:45:12 <dukiedrew> right now mine are going in luna/"preferences"
Jul 25 05:45:21 <dukiedrew> preferences seems a wee vague
Jul 25 05:45:23 <EricBlade> I kind of like the look of how QT works, but I really haven't given it any study other than looking at the docs on bits that seemed related to the area I did work in
Jul 25 05:45:37 <dukiedrew> I've been doing UIs in QT for ~4 years now
Jul 25 05:46:40 <ka6sox> I think shifty was using a category he added to tweaks 3.0.0
Jul 25 05:47:14 <dukiedrew> right, the category is "luna"
Jul 25 05:47:23 <dukiedrew> but you can have "groups"
Jul 25 05:47:53 <dukiedrew> perhaps the recommended types of groups should be added to http://webos-ports.org/wiki/Preferences_Support
Jul 25 05:47:54 <ka6sox> do you want me to ask Shifty when he is around?
Jul 25 05:48:13 <dukiedrew> sure
Jul 25 05:48:19 <ka6sox> please do
Jul 25 05:48:31 <ka6sox> iirc thats what shifty wrote up on this subject.
Jul 25 05:48:35 <dukiedrew> yeah
Jul 25 05:48:42 <dukiedrew> i'll think about groups
Jul 25 05:49:04 <dukiedrew> ie Card View Gestures, Keyboard, etc
Jul 25 05:49:05 <ka6sox> ty
Jul 25 06:04:38 <dukiedrew> hmm
Jul 25 06:05:01 <dukiedrew> so if i create a fork
Jul 25 06:05:06 <dukiedrew> then push to that fork
Jul 25 06:05:12 <dukiedrew> it still shows changes compared to my last version
Jul 25 06:05:17 <dukiedrew> not only to the woce version
Jul 25 06:05:36 <dukiedrew> if I do a pull request to the woce version, will that be the case?
Jul 25 06:05:51 <dukiedrew> or will it just diff my tweakified version with the woce version?
Jul 25 06:15:44 <dukiedrew> hmm
Jul 25 06:15:45 <dukiedrew> appears that way
Jul 25 06:17:04 <dukiedrew> although it is also showing changes made by pcworld
Jul 25 06:21:55 <dukiedrew> here goes nothing...
Jul 25 06:22:50 <ka6sox> :D
Jul 25 06:27:08 <dukiedrew> hope that worked
Jul 25 06:27:20 <dukiedrew> although still confused why the other changes show up there too
Jul 25 06:27:52 <dukiedrew> [by pcworld]
Jul 25 06:27:53 <dukiedrew> whatever
Jul 25 06:32:27 <ka6sox> you will get it...
Jul 25 06:32:46 <ka6sox> I don't have a good answer for you right now.
Jul 25 06:34:16 <dukiedrew> i prefer C++ :)
Jul 25 06:34:38 <ka6sox> :D
Jul 25 06:50:46 <ka6sox> dukiedrew, rome wasn't built in a day...I'll ask some folks about how to integrate what you have done...
Jul 25 06:50:56 <ka6sox> is it pushed up to github?
Jul 25 06:51:00 <dukiedrew> yup
Jul 25 06:51:05 <dukiedrew> i did a "pull request" to the woce master
Jul 25 06:51:11 <ka6sox> ty...
Jul 25 06:51:23 <ka6sox> it might be a day or 2 till the git master pulls stuff in...
Jul 25 06:51:25 <dukiedrew> for infinite card cycling and m-t card grouping
Jul 25 06:51:28 <dukiedrew> no worries
Jul 25 06:52:03 <dukiedrew> and as I mentioned in the pull request, the m-t stuff will need to be carefully integrated with whatever shiftyaxel's doing
Jul 25 06:52:23 <ka6sox> we should probably get him to comment on that pull request
Jul 25 06:52:27 <ka6sox> what number is it?
Jul 25 06:52:32 <ka6sox> (so I can reference it)
Jul 25 06:52:55 <ka6sox> #18
Jul 25 06:52:56 <ka6sox> got it
Jul 25 06:54:18 <dukiedrew> the changes he'd be concerned with would be in touchEvent() and sceneEvent() in CardWindowManager
Jul 25 06:54:28 <ka6sox> kk
Jul 25 06:54:30 <ka6sox> than ks
Jul 25 06:54:33 <dukiedrew> ja
Jul 25 06:55:20 <ka6sox> okay 15hrs of work and 400miles of driving and I'm beat...
Jul 25 06:59:38 <dukiedrew> wow
Jul 25 07:00:03 <dukiedrew> drive down to Cabo? :)
Jul 25 07:00:10 <ka6sox> (and I never left the lower half of the state.
Jul 25 07:00:21 <ka6sox> San Diego to PS to Santa Monica to home.
Jul 25 07:01:10 <dukiedrew> :-\
Jul 25 07:01:15 <dukiedrew> hope it was at least > 75 mph
Jul 25 07:01:22 <ka6sox> I need time to work on the carpad...but this project is keeping me busy :D
Jul 25 07:01:54 <ka6sox> funny how I see the CHP all the time chatting on their phones..with them up to their ear!
Jul 25 07:03:35 <ka6sox> I need time to finish getting pocket-sphinx working on the TP.
Jul 25 07:04:31 <ka6sox> let the second mostly idle core chew on the recognition.
Jul 25 07:13:00 <dukiedrew> hmm, anyway, time for bed here
Jul 25 07:13:05 <dukiedrew> gnite
Jul 25 08:39:26 <LunohoD> has anyone tried to build lunasysmgr for the qemu?
Jul 25 09:40:17 <EricBlade> LunohoD: i don't think anyone has put much effort into it.  There are possibly some defines in the code that might make that easy to do, although our build process currently is quite arm-centric
Jul 25 09:41:02 <EricBlade> i would guess it depends on exactly what our build process uses all those doctor files that it gets for
Jul 25 10:04:44 <EricBlade> woot is wooting touchpads!
Jul 25 11:21:30 <ShiftyAxel> morning all
Jul 25 14:57:19 <HaDAk_>  nnnnng
Jul 25 15:22:39 <ka6sox> is that a reference to morninnnnnnnng?
Jul 25 15:54:14 <ka6sox> tyrok, thanks for documenting all this...I am now getting a better idea of how things fit.
Jul 25 15:54:55 <tyrok> ka6sox: No problem.  WIsh I had more time to work on it.
Jul 25 15:55:59 <tyrok> That reminds me: who (if anyone, right now) approves pull requests, and when do they usually happen?  I don't think I've seen any of them actually approved yet.
Jul 25 15:57:32 <HaDAk_> tyrok: my thanks too. you've been such an amazingly huge help. i know it's a daunting task. :)
Jul 25 16:01:03 <ka6sox> I can, after I poll the group...
Jul 25 16:01:40 <ka6sox> I don't see an issue but I don't want to jump ahead of the group.
Jul 25 16:02:02 <ka6sox> so give me another day or 2 and then we should start seeing action.
Jul 25 16:17:23 <ShiftyAxel> woot, time to install mountain lion
Jul 25 16:32:23 <stefan_schmidt_w> You can install this. No need to buy a new machine for it? ;)
Jul 25 16:50:39 <tyrok> HaDAk_: Thanks!  It's no so daunting if you take it piece-by-piece.  I'm learning a TON about webOS with doing this.
Jul 25 16:51:02 <tyrok> ka6sox: Cool.  No hurry, was just wondering what the process was.
Jul 25 16:52:14 <HaDAk_> tyrok: i'm so glad! you're going to be the authority. super, super  value member of the community. :D
Jul 25 17:00:26 <ka6sox> HaDAk_, agreed.
Jul 25 17:32:07 <ShiftyAxel> success!
Jul 25 17:41:38 <HaDAk_> bummer.
Jul 25 17:41:44 <HaDAk_> that means you're stuck with 10.8
Jul 25 17:51:30 <ShiftyAxel> you don't sound terribly enthusiastic about it, bad experience?
Jul 25 18:14:51 <HaDAk_> i used osx up until snow leopard. i really liked it, tbh.  after i sold my macbook, i watched the direction os x went, and was horribly unimpressed
Jul 25 18:15:03 <HaDAk_> their inclusion of so many ios features really turned me off from it.
Jul 25 18:17:20 <ShiftyAxel> i liked using lion, the UX impressed me
Jul 25 18:17:35 <ShiftyAxel> though it's a shame they killed off 2D spaces
Jul 25 18:17:44 <ShiftyAxel> but the switching and general workflow is nice imo
Jul 25 18:17:55 <ShiftyAxel> plus mountain lion lets me tweet from _anywhere_
Jul 25 18:18:05 <ShiftyAxel> which is kind of fun
Jul 25 18:19:27 * ShiftyAxel is the worst salesman ever
Jul 25 18:19:53 <summatusmentis> I hear a lot about "inclusion of iOS features" being bad
Jul 25 18:20:13 <summatusmentis> but nothing about those features require using them (yet)
Jul 25 18:20:17 <summatusmentis> so I fail to see the issue
Jul 25 18:20:54 <ShiftyAxel> indeed, i can't really see myself using game center or messages
Jul 25 18:21:14 <ShiftyAxel> or any of the 'works magically across all your devices like a unicorn' stuff
Jul 25 18:21:17 <summatusmentis> I'm gonna use messages, especially when iOS6 comes out
Jul 25 18:23:37 <HaDAk_> something about the applications being all over your desktop in a grid or something...
Jul 25 18:23:58 <HaDAk_> this shit
Jul 25 18:23:58 <HaDAk_> http://geekprison.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/apple_mac_os_x_launchpad.jpg
Jul 25 18:24:17 <summatusmentis> not on your desktop
Jul 25 18:24:24 <summatusmentis> that's hidden unless you access it
Jul 25 18:24:33 <summatusmentis> (which I almost never do)
Jul 25 18:24:51 <ShiftyAxel> oh that, the iOS launcher thing
Jul 25 18:25:13 <ShiftyAxel> I use it occasionally, but most of my oft-used stuff is in the dock
Jul 25 18:25:29 <ShiftyAxel> and i'd use messages if it had IRC support, that would be cool
Jul 25 18:25:43 <summatusmentis> well, I use the doc, and Alfred to search for things not in my doc
Jul 25 18:25:45 <summatusmentis> dock*
Jul 25 18:26:22 <ShiftyAxel> I use Spotlight when I remember it's there
Jul 25 18:26:27 <ShiftyAxel> which isn't often
Jul 25 18:26:47 <ShiftyAxel> oh yeah, dictation isn't working very well atm
Jul 25 18:26:53 <summatusmentis> big surprise
Jul 25 18:26:54 <ShiftyAxel> the new siri-ish thing in 10.8
Jul 25 18:27:05 <ShiftyAxel> i think their servers are overloaded/melting
Jul 25 18:28:06 <summatusmentis> I'm sure that's true
Jul 25 18:30:04 <ShiftyAxel> aha, there's a preferences pane for it
Jul 25 18:30:21 <ShiftyAxel> …but the 'make it work' checkbox is missing, looks like they'll have to add that in 10.8.1
Jul 25 18:30:51 <summatusmentis> hah
Jul 25 18:52:02 <dukiedrew> morning, Shifty.
Jul 25 18:52:11 <dukiedrew> have you thought about how to group luna tweaks preferences?
Jul 25 20:56:52 <creationix> I just built WOCE.  I'm impressed with how fast it builds and how easy it was
Jul 25 21:02:12 <HaDAk_> i'm dismayed with the amount of bugs in it >.>>..
Jul 25 21:02:28 <HaDAk_> we'll get em though
Jul 25 21:03:05 <dukiedrew> creationix: me too.
Jul 25 21:07:16 <creationix> so what's new compared to the stock HP image?
Jul 25 21:09:01 <dukiedrew> which did you build?
Jul 25 21:37:46 <ka6sox> hi creationix
Jul 25 21:38:31 <ShiftyAxel> dukiedrew: ping?
Jul 25 21:39:00 <creationix> ka6sox, hello
Jul 25 21:40:54 <dukiedrew> ping
Jul 25 21:42:30 <ka6sox> ShiftyAxel, he is there :D
Jul 25 21:43:00 <ShiftyAxel> dukiedrew: what do you mean by grouping luna tweaks preferences?
Jul 25 21:43:15 <dukiedrew> to keep things organized
Jul 25 21:43:27 <dukiedrew> ie, right now i have
Jul 25 21:43:28 <dukiedrew> "Features"
Jul 25 21:43:30 <dukiedrew> and "Settings"
Jul 25 21:43:38 <dukiedrew> and maybe another might be "Keyboard"
Jul 25 21:43:49 <dukiedrew> ie if the idea is to have all sorts of Luna tweaks,
Jul 25 21:43:58 <dukiedrew> there should be some sort of organizational order
Jul 25 21:54:28 <ShiftyAxel> yeah, that sounds good
Jul 25 21:55:52 <ShiftyAxel> I've been naming mine similarly- Gestures & Status Bar so far iirc
Jul 25 22:06:34 <ka6sox> wb
Jul 25 22:06:52 <ShiftyAxel> ty
Jul 25 22:08:25 <ShiftyAxel> looks like my notification center isn't broken anymore
Jul 25 22:08:34 <ShiftyAxel> love initial releases, they're the best
Jul 25 22:08:57 <ShiftyAxel> i'm goanna get some downtime now, if anyone wants me i'll be available under ShiftyAxel_TP
Jul 25 23:18:25 <dukiedrew> hmmm
Jul 25 23:18:40 <dukiedrew> webos-device user.warning LunaSysService: getPreferences(): resultMap: [customizationAppsToInstall] -> [---, length 2]
Jul 25 23:18:51 <dukiedrew> webos-device user.warning LunaSysService: setPreference(): setPref did NOT find handler for customizationAppsToInstall
Jul 25 23:19:45 <dukiedrew> webos-device user.warning LunaSysService: PrefsDb::setPref(): set ( [customizationAppsToInstall] , [---, length 2] )
Jul 25 23:19:59 <dukiedrew> webos-device user.warning LunaSysService: setPreference(): setPref saved? true
Jul 25 23:20:06 <dukiedrew> followed by a luna crash
Jul 25 23:20:15 <dukiedrew> which happens randomly
Jul 25 23:20:53 <dukiedrew> but frequently
Jul 25 23:20:57 <dukiedrew> [when luna is restarted]
Jul 26 00:32:03 <bhuey> folks
Jul 26 00:53:24 <ka6sox> bhuey
Jul 26 01:15:52 <ka6sox> Series= 32M, Shunt=8k
Jul 26 01:55:36 <dukiedrew> cmake question
Jul 26 01:55:43 <dukiedrew> i changed the directory for custom.mk
Jul 26 01:55:52 <dukiedrew> but it doesn't want to recompile
Jul 26 01:56:00 <dukiedrew> [even though i've changed a file's contents]
Jul 26 02:07:42 <hewball> hurry up openwebos, ive got 2 raspberry pi's i want to play with
Jul 26 02:15:43 <dukiedrew> ergh, weird.  2-3 hrs of debugging something i can't explain.  I rebuilt from scratch and the error goes away.  ?!
Jul 26 02:58:27 <tyrok> *facepalm* There's this nice smart pointer implementation (sptr<> - see docs) and they don't use it for WebAppBase to support automatic cleanup of page content.  This makes no sense to me.
Jul 26 02:59:13 <ka6sox> tyrok, doesn't surprise me...just code cleanup may make this 20% faster!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 26 02:59:58 2012