**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 15 02:59:59 2012
Aug 15 03:03:25 <ka6sox-farfarawa> really?
Aug 15 03:04:18 <fxspec06> yep. technically they could hire the old hardware and change the name to palm
Aug 15 03:04:23 <citrus> the new entity is called GRAM...
Aug 15 03:04:25 <fxspec06> they'll be in the same buildings. o.O
Aug 15 03:05:13 <fxspec06> btw, i'd like to point out that GRAM and palm both are four letters and contain the letters 'a' and 'm.'
Aug 15 03:05:44 <fxspec06> and, g kinda looks like a backwards p
Aug 15 03:06:06 <scoutcamper> lol
Aug 15 03:06:27 <scoutcamper> fxspec06, palmsource would be a better name
Aug 15 03:12:42 <EricBlade1> jeezus, i go and do my evening job for an hour and all hell breaks loose. it's like last august, all over again. except this can be spun in a positive fashion without looking like an idiot.
Aug 15 03:14:07 <HaDAk> well. we fixed it.
Aug 15 03:15:02 <EricBlade1> what'd we fix?
Aug 15 03:15:21 <HaDAk> nothing, really. just added a featuer.
Aug 15 03:15:24 <HaDAk> feature*
Aug 15 03:19:04 <bluen> job description on webosjobs: to create a front end Web-based application for a major enterprise team
Aug 15 03:19:19 <bluen> migrating their current PHP legacy code over to JavaScript.
Aug 15 03:19:37 <bluen> integration with internal RESTful JSON APIs, designing solutions against specifications provided by a UX team, and carrying a commercial service from conception all the way to deployment.
Aug 15 03:20:00 <bluen> what does that sound like to you?
Aug 15 03:20:54 <fxspec06> sounds like they want to make some new core enyo business apps
Aug 15 03:21:20 <bluen> webOS - Sr. Web Developer-1011930
Aug 15 03:21:38 <bluen> so the initial app is in webOS yes?
Aug 15 03:23:01 <EricBlade1> * Sense of humor or at least ability to laugh in the face of tough situations (of which there will be many) is a must.
Aug 15 03:23:01 <EricBlade1> * Huge bonus points to candidates with knowledge of package management formats (RPM, Debian), Enyo, or Amazon Web Services.
Aug 15 03:23:51 <HaDAk> i wanna work for them.
Aug 15 03:24:02 * rwhitby doesn't get it
Aug 15 03:24:17 <rwhitby> at least it's metric.
Aug 15 03:24:20 <EricBlade1> what don't you get rod?
Aug 15 03:24:49 <bluen> webos senior visual designer: Palm is seeking a world-class user experience visual designer
Aug 15 03:25:04 <bluen> An empathic connection to users of mobile devices
Aug 15 03:25:29 <bluen> Contribute to a cross-functional team during the design process from research to delivery
Aug 15 03:25:31 <fxspec06> well, i'm ruled out =(
Aug 15 03:25:44 <bluen> Drive intuitively simple, emotionally appealing, and functionally impressive visual design
Aug 15 03:26:35 <rwhitby> EricBlade1: "gram"
Aug 15 03:26:40 <bluen> Experience with software applications for phones or handheld devices a plus
Aug 15 03:29:26 <EricBlade1> well, i think fxspec has the best analysis of it so far.
Aug 15 03:29:42 <EricBlade1> it's like palm, in that it has an a and an m, and g looks like a reversed p. sort of.
Aug 15 03:30:29 <EricBlade1> and basically, we have no idea what the hell they are doing, but they'll use HP webOS, Enyo, and HP Cloud to do it. And their partners. whomever they might be.
Aug 15 03:31:41 <fxspec06> EricBlade1: if it's even going to be called "HP webOS" any more
Aug 15 03:31:54 <fxspec06> they might call it something else, and it might not be owned by HP
Aug 15 03:32:33 <fxspec06> *shrugs* tired, gtg bed. later all
Aug 15 03:34:32 <EricBlade> it does sort of lead to an impression that HP keeps what it has, and this new company goes forth and proliferates.  Hopefully without the poisonous HP name directly attached when they are negotiating with these so called partners.
Aug 15 03:35:15 <bluen> so Gram means its a lightweight OS?
Aug 15 03:35:59 <bluen> and the apps in the OS pull together all the services and hardware in the cloud structure?
Aug 15 03:38:25 <bluen> one advantage of a separate co is you treat it as a startup--you can isolate its losses and then spin it off as it grows more profitable. this is a protective mechanism i would think and goes to the point that this is part of whitman's exec team projects
Aug 15 03:43:35 <HaDAk> oh, EricBlade is still here.
Aug 15 03:43:37 <HaDAk> i just emailed you.
Aug 15 03:43:44 <EricBlade> i returned!
Aug 15 03:44:22 <HaDAk> so very interesting. this is enyo, right?
Aug 15 03:46:36 <EricBlade> what is
Aug 15 03:46:46 <HaDAk> synergv
Aug 15 03:47:10 <EricBlade> the communication stuff is all node.js the app is enyo 1
Aug 15 03:47:43 <HaDAk> yeah, the app itself.
Aug 15 03:47:52 <HaDAk> it does interesting things on small screens
Aug 15 03:47:54 <HaDAk> good to know
Aug 15 03:49:11 <EricBlade> yea it should be a snap to get the main bits working, but some things will need some thought & design
Aug 15 03:49:57 <HaDAk> if i open up the app and hit the preferences and accounts or whatever, the sides are faded out, and i can scroll around it freely
Aug 15 03:50:00 <bluen> i suppose gram and cloud carry the same light weight theme--something almost made of air
Aug 15 04:35:32 <EricBlade> HaDAk it's a little nicer if you go to landscape mode
Aug 15 04:35:49 <EricBlade> but it still doesn't do anything because it doesn't really understand small size screens
Aug 15 04:46:32 <EricBlade> hmm. looks like i might be forced to perform a franken operation. "the notification light is flashing but i can't get the screen to come on"
Aug 15 05:01:34 <destinal> EricBlade: GRAM webOS, eh?
Aug 15 05:01:55 <destinal> should have reacquired the Palm name :)
Aug 15 05:28:00 <zubiaur> Hi!
Aug 15 05:29:15 <zubiaur> a quick question, what gesture do I  need to perform in order to get tabbed view while using fluid gesture detection?
Aug 15 05:33:21 <ka6sox-farfarawa> zubiaur, fluid gestures break tabbed view currently
Aug 15 05:35:19 <zubiaur> uh! ok!
Aug 15 05:35:31 <zubiaur> fluid gestures are awesome by the way!
Aug 15 05:35:57 <zubiaur> thanks for the hard work :)
Aug 15 05:36:13 <PatrickC> all i know is i can't wait to get my touchpad back so i can start testing! :D
Aug 15 05:40:42 <zubiaur> not that there is much testing to do, its very polished! I expected it to crash from time to time or send me to the doctor a couple of times, its awesome
Aug 15 05:41:43 <zubiaur> Pff going to sleep, thanks again!
Aug 15 05:44:29 <kayphoonstar_> Does 4.2.0 need to be you uninstalled before upgrading to 4.3.1?
Aug 15 05:55:06 <kayphoonstar_> My first attempt @ upgrade to 4.3.1 seemed to you uninstall 4.2.0 and ipkg fail. restored to stock and tried again. now working nice.
Aug 15 05:57:36 <ka6sox-farfarawa> the uninstall fails for 4.2.0?
Aug 15 05:57:55 <ka6sox-farfarawa> can you email it to yourself and pastebin the error?
Aug 15 06:03:18 <kayphoonstar_> not the uninstall - trying to upgrade uninstalled lunaCE. new install went fine.
Aug 15 06:05:08 <kayphoonstar_> the error when upgrading just said that luna had already been modified
Aug 15 06:06:28 <EricBlade> dammit! i just accidentally booted android. now i have to play Pinball Arcade.
Aug 15 06:11:10 <kayphoonstar_> I can't type anything with fluid enabled - it keeps carding the app!
Aug 15 06:12:15 <kayphoonstar_> I have to be really deliberate.
Aug 15 06:14:32 <EricBlade> updating from 4.2.0 to 4.3.1 via preware left me with 4.2.0.  arrrgh
Aug 15 06:17:53 <ka6sox-farfarawa> kayphoonstar, write that up as a bug report @ issues.webos-ports.org
Aug 15 06:18:09 <ka6sox-farfarawa> EricBlade, how did that happen?
Aug 15 06:27:37 <kayphoonstar_> in WOCE-Build?
Aug 15 06:38:58 <EricBlade> i don't know how it happened. so far, my luck with the isntallation system has been .. not good.
Aug 15 06:42:37 <ka6sox-farfarawa> I can see that...
Aug 15 06:42:44 <ka6sox-farfarawa> we need to sort out why that is.
Aug 15 06:45:33 <EricBlade> the dev pad went straight into 4.3.1, although i had a boot to android in between
Aug 15 06:53:09 <EricBlade> switching back to 3.0.5 on the regular one
Aug 15 06:54:04 <EricBlade> ok, switch to 3.0.5 luna restart, good
Aug 15 06:56:17 <kayphoonstar_> I reported it in Luna-SysMgr - hope that's right.
Aug 15 06:56:19 <EricBlade> hmm. i think i saw this discussion earlier, fluid doesn't work with tabbed right
Aug 15 06:58:10 <EricBlade> bringing up the launcher in fluid is almost impossible
Aug 15 06:59:08 <kayphoonstar_> fluid is really cool but I had to turn it off to type anything.
Aug 15 06:59:51 <citrus> or one letter at a time
Aug 15 07:00:10 <citrus> multi-touch glitch?
Aug 15 07:00:31 <kayphoonstar_> yes. one. at. a. time.
Aug 15 07:00:44 <citrus> slow...
Aug 15 07:01:10 <kayphoonstar_> seems like a sensitivity thing.
Aug 15 07:05:18 <EricBlade> ok it is probably my tablet or the screen protector that is making the gestures suck.
Aug 15 07:05:28 <EricBlade> btw, after reinstalling 4.3.1 on my regular pad, i ended up with 4.2.0
Aug 15 07:05:28 <citrus> no
Aug 15 07:05:55 <EricBlade> no matter what mode i put it in, the standard down bezel was not responding very well to me
Aug 15 07:06:17 <EricBlade> i showed my gf tabbed cards, though, and the first thing she said was "THAT IS HOW TABLETS ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK"
Aug 15 07:06:26 <citrus> yes!
Aug 15 07:06:55 <kayphoonstar_> it is!
Aug 15 07:08:15 <EricBlade> i really think that we could stand to explore that concept a lot more.  frankly, screw the stack idea, have "card view" go down to what we call "tab view" now, except to keep it webOS style, have the tabs run along the top or bottom rather than left or right, and add in a "toss" to them for closing them
Aug 15 07:08:58 <citrus> I dig that the stacks are 'tabs' in the side-to-side swipe app changing environment tho!
Aug 15 07:09:07 <EricBlade> some polish on that feature, and dukie can tell duarte to shove it
Aug 15 07:09:21 <EricBlade> er.. that might be a little harsh
Aug 15 07:09:23 <EricBlade> :)
Aug 15 07:10:03 <citrus> the whole 'vertical column of tabs' thing is like, if you hybridize the Android app switcher with a stack of webOS cards
Aug 15 07:10:19 <citrus> very durat-esque
Aug 15 07:12:11 <citrus> so, um, it's been noted that the virtual keyboard is broken with fluid gestures enabled?
Aug 15 07:18:06 <citrus> so I would guess you just did a reinstall, kayphoonstar. did that help?
Aug 15 07:19:09 <kayphoonstar_> yeah, I had to go back to stock (recovery) then install.
Aug 15 07:19:52 <citrus> so that pinch-to-cardview hypersensitivity is gone?
Aug 15 07:27:36 <kayphoonstar_> tap ripple is back even with the remove patch installed  after 4.3.1
Aug 15 07:28:31 <kayphoonstar_> I think I miss thumbnav even more than the keyboard patch - hmm.
Aug 15 07:44:02 <rwhitby> EricBlade: can you please post the ipkg log whenever you get a strange install or uninstall ?
Aug 15 07:48:37 <EricBlade> rwhitby: no errors
Aug 15 07:49:18 <rwhitby> ok, "md5sum /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr*" then please
Aug 15 07:49:51 <EricBlade> kayphoonstar thumb nav just detects a tap on the screen edge.  it's a bit of a trick to hit though with a small dead area around the screen that swallows edge swipes from being sent into apps
Aug 15 07:50:04 <EricBlade> which, frankly, is the best of the best improvements so far
Aug 15 07:50:15 <EricBlade> unless we can come up with a better way of doing it
Aug 15 07:51:33 <rwhitby> EricBlade: after a new install, you should see the old LunaSysMgr and a new LunaSysMgr.install in /usr/bin - the .install version gets moved to overwrite the old one on the next invovation of the LunaSysMgr upstart script (i.e. a luna restart)
Aug 15 07:52:29 <citrus_> how are fluid gestures going to work with tabs?
Aug 15 07:52:56 <rwhitby> that would be a question for ShiftyAxel|Away
Aug 15 07:55:55 <EricBlade> rwhitby: that seems to work well when reverting to 3.0.5, but whenever i bump up, it says everything's successful, but i got the wrong version
Aug 15 07:56:07 <kayphoonstar_> EricBlade: so are you saying that it might will still work when the tap is right?
Aug 15 07:56:41 <EricBlade> kayphoonstar yeah i've seen it happen, it was easy to do before the dead area was added, i haven't tried since
Aug 15 07:58:29 <EricBlade> hmm. maybe it put 4.2.0 there intentionaly because that's all that it knew was there.
Aug 15 07:58:49 <EricBlade> is there a specific timeframe that preware caches responses for?  this particular touchpad always seems to be quite behind
Aug 15 07:59:50 <EricBlade> ok 4.3.1 fails with "Device LunaSysMgr files are not in factory condition, refusing to install replacement".  Verification failed on /etc/palm/lunaAnimations.conf
Aug 15 08:00:16 <EricBlade> SO, it looks like the 3.0.5 package either doesn't restore lunaAnimations.conf or something randomly failed in that process on me
Aug 15 08:01:41 <kayphoonstar_> thumbnav *is* still there!
Aug 15 08:02:05 <rwhitby> EricBlade: are you using the 3.0.5-2 version of palm-lunasysmgr ?
Aug 15 08:02:34 <EricBlade> my guess is not, i had to update the cache before it even found 4.3.1 .. will try that when it's done rebooting
Aug 15 08:02:47 <rwhitby> -2 contains lunaAnimations recovery
Aug 15 08:02:49 <kayphoonstar_> it takes a double tap.
Aug 15 08:03:15 <EricBlade> it shouldn't take 2, but i can see how that would make it easier to locate the spot
Aug 15 08:11:21 <EricBlade> i had to do a similar thing with the soft keyboard button in Splashtop
Aug 15 08:11:29 <EricBlade> it often takes a couple taps to hit it right
Aug 15 08:14:36 <EricBlade> yay, now i'm on 4.3.1.
Aug 15 08:14:52 <citrus_> :D
Aug 15 09:06:33 <swisstomcat> morning
Aug 15 09:36:41 <bhuey> folks
Aug 15 10:09:49 <bhuey> hmmm Gram
Aug 15 10:09:55 <bhuey> of what ?
Aug 15 10:30:44 <swisstomcat> installing LunaCE
Aug 15 10:38:59 <swisstomcat> worked without a problem
Aug 15 10:39:02 <swisstomcat> now testing :)
Aug 15 10:54:47 <swisstomcat> now if someone could describe how tabbed cards work? :)
Aug 15 10:57:53 <falchie> from tweaks: "enable tabbed cards when performing a sideways bezel gesture inside a maximised, stacked card"
Aug 15 11:32:51 <swisstomcat> hmm
Aug 15 11:36:43 <swisstomcat> ah! i see it now
Aug 15 11:36:46 <swisstomcat> thanks
Aug 15 11:37:02 <swisstomcat> very cool
Aug 15 12:33:19 <tyrok> Haven't had a chance to do much with WOCE or OWO for a while now and haven't really been keeping up on the channel.  How's progress been going?
Aug 15 12:35:24 <tyrok> I see there's been quite a bit of activity in the "features" branch.
Aug 15 12:41:34 <bluen> tyrok: lunaCE version 4.3.1 is in alphafeed in Preware, now has a fluid gesture option which will let you drag a full card up from the bottom and it will slowly shrink
Aug 15 12:43:06 <bluen> webosnation wrote an article last night that suggested webOS is being put into a newCo with Enyo and "cloud services". No real facts but backed by HP and perhaps they create apps which HP cloud services sells along with their services nad hardware
Aug 15 12:43:28 <bluen> Perhaps HP hoping also some other
Aug 15 12:44:41 <bluen> "partners" create cloud apps using webOS or enyo and leveraging off HP sales force to get the word out. So if this entity called Gram takes off, it also takes on investment from someone other than HP? Whole thing very cloudy
Aug 15 12:44:55 <bluen> pure speculation everything i wrote
Aug 15 12:45:14 <tyrok> bluen: Cool.  So then it builds relatively stable now?
Aug 15 12:45:46 <bluen> Yes, stable and fluid
Aug 15 12:45:55 <bluen> feels visually awesome
Aug 15 12:46:50 <tyrok> Nice.
Aug 15 13:21:10 * HaDAk|work groans
Aug 15 13:21:12 <HaDAk|work> fking mornings
Aug 15 13:21:38 <GodGinrai> lol, agreed
Aug 15 13:22:15 <HaDAk|work> the day i choose to be 15 minutes late to work, my boss decides not to be 90 minutes late.
Aug 15 13:22:16 <HaDAk|work> great.
Aug 15 13:22:47 <GodGinrai> that sucks
Aug 15 13:23:18 <HaDAk|work> yeah.\
Aug 15 14:14:32 <swisstomcat> Hi ShiftyAxel
Aug 15 14:14:37 <swisstomcat> did you get a package today? :)
Aug 15 14:15:16 <ShiftyAxel> morning swisstomcat :)
Aug 15 14:15:38 <ShiftyAxel> not as of yet, apparently it's with the mysterious DHL man but I don't think he's swung by yet
Aug 15 14:16:01 <swisstomcat> i forgot to add an UK plug adapter, sorry about that
Aug 15 14:16:59 <stefan_schmidt_w> UK power plugs are a pain anyway :)
Aug 15 14:17:25 <ShiftyAxel> that's not a problem, I have more palm power adapters than god :D
Aug 15 14:17:26 * stefan_schmidt_w has EU multi power plug with UK plug at the end in his flat
Aug 15 14:47:54 <ka6sox-away> morning
Aug 15 14:50:36 <stefan_schmidt_w> hi ka6sox-away
Aug 15 15:19:55 <swisstomcat> morning ka6sox
Aug 15 15:20:35 * ShiftyAxel kicks his sky router again
Aug 15 15:20:38 <ShiftyAxel> damn thing
Aug 15 15:23:20 <ShiftyAxel> and now OSX has decided to flash the screen instead of playing alert sounds...
Aug 15 15:23:28 <ShiftyAxel> today is a bad day for technology
Aug 15 15:25:05 <GodGinrai> btw Shifty
Aug 15 15:25:56 <GodGinrai> yesterday, my Pre3 battery hit 52 degrees during idle charge on Touchstone. :(
Aug 15 15:26:20 <GodGinrai> I didn't even have any apps open
Aug 15 15:31:53 <GodGinrai> bbl
Aug 15 15:53:00 <ShiftyAxel> GodGinrai: what accounts do you have configured, out of interest?
Aug 15 15:53:18 <ShiftyAxel> some of them seem to have a latent bug that causes them to OM NOM NOM memory and CPU cycles like mad
Aug 15 15:54:44 <ShiftyAxel> google calendar, for one
Aug 15 15:55:31 <ShiftyAxel> if you run 'top' in novaterm it'll tell you what's using what
Aug 15 17:11:23 <bluen_> allthingsD has an HP article saying they want to do commercial tablets "and have unique intellectual property. I hope that means Gram along with whatever else
Aug 15 18:15:10 <bhuey> folks
Aug 15 19:53:03 <LarrySteeze|Cell> Bhuey
Aug 15 20:07:37 <rrix> rrix
Aug 15 20:07:41 <rrix> oh wait
Aug 15 20:15:47 <LarrySteeze|Cell> Rrix
Aug 15 21:09:54 <bluen> HP Gram is so confusing that Bloomberg quotes an analyst who gets it wrong http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-15/hewlett-packard-remakes-webos-as-gram-startup-to-revive-brand.html?cmpid=yhoo
Aug 15 23:15:31 <ShiftyAxel> off now, nn all
Aug 16 01:49:17 <fxspec06> oh btw, upgrade from 4.2 to 4.3 made me uninstall first. i thought i should mention that in here.
Aug 16 01:49:30 <fxspec06> i haven't actually installed or tested 4.3 yet, though
Aug 16 01:49:37 <kayphoon> update from 4.3.1 to 4.3.2 http://pastebin.com/upYeQqfp - I had to uninstall again.
Aug 16 02:13:58 <lagoldste> thanks for the heads up, kayphoon
Aug 16 02:15:48 <lagoldste> fxspec06: i had to uninstall 4.2 to go to 4.3.1 also
Aug 16 02:17:48 <kayphoonstar> fluid gestures and keyboard work together! But I don't seem to be able to get tabs now with fluid gestures enabled.
Aug 16 02:18:34 <lagoldste> fluid gestures?
Aug 16 02:20:51 <kayphoonstar> fluid "gesture detection" is more precise I guess
Aug 16 02:22:27 <lagoldste> ok. i'm still not sure what that is. wondering now if i'm going to have to read the source code to figure out what some of this stuff is
Aug 16 02:25:37 <lagoldste> i did figure out that two finger swipe switches card stacks, which is nice. still has some oddities similar to the ones the arrow keys had in 4.2
Aug 16 02:36:03 <kayphoonstar> "slide" seems to be my favorite - it seems smoother.
Aug 16 02:47:54 <lagoldste> that's another question i have- what's the difference between swipe and slide? the length of the stroke?
Aug 16 02:48:37 <HaDAk-TP> fluid isn't working in 4.3.2
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 16 02:59:58 2012