**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 22 03:00:00 2012
Oct 22 11:39:07 <Tofe> morning
Oct 22 11:52:45 <Tofe> Ah, too bad morphis isn't there, he's just the one I'd like to ask a question to
Oct 22 11:54:15 <Tofe> Well, let's try anyway: do someone know how to recompile the bionic libc with the NDK ? I've got the NDK ready, the libc source, but it fails to parse the makefile...
Oct 22 13:41:26 <ShiftyAxel> interesting... it looks like OWO isn't receiving flick events on the GNex
Oct 22 13:42:01 <ShiftyAxel> I blame HPalm's implementation of Qt for this...
Oct 22 15:51:25 * EricBlade returns
Oct 22 16:15:05 <ka6sox> ShiftyAxel, to deal with the com.palm.app.browser silliness should I fork this so we can fix it?
Oct 22 16:15:27 <ShiftyAxel> ya, this the way to go
Oct 22 16:15:39 <ka6sox> off to fork!
Oct 22 16:15:56 <ShiftyAxel> I wonder if upstream would accept an enyo2 rewrite of the browser frontend...
Oct 22 16:16:18 <ka6sox> yes
Oct 22 16:16:31 <ka6sox> I'm pretty sure they don't want to rewrite it (or maybe someone is...)
Oct 22 16:17:43 <ka6sox> done and you have push access
Oct 22 16:18:08 <ShiftyAxel> tyvm, I'll poke at it when I get back to the laptop
Oct 22 16:18:30 <ka6sox> this looks "debianized" for Ubuntu....
Oct 22 16:18:38 <ka6sox> we will need to get a bb for it going.
Oct 22 16:19:26 <ka6sox> bleh..lysdexia getting me today
Oct 22 16:19:29 <ShiftyAxel> I need to figure out what's going on with the app situation too
Oct 22 16:19:38 <ka6sox> which app situation?
Oct 22 16:19:54 <ShiftyAxel> scaling
Oct 22 16:21:15 <ka6sox> I saw the ML post
Oct 22 16:23:33 <ShiftyAxel> ya, the 2.x style stuff
Oct 22 16:23:56 <ShiftyAxel> there are two routes I can see
Oct 22 16:24:38 <ShiftyAxel> a. scaling them 2.x style, maximum compatibility with older stuff but loses a bit of resolution
Oct 22 16:25:20 <ShiftyAxel> b. leave it as-is and make dynamic scaling (percent vs pixels) a requirement
Oct 22 16:26:22 <ShiftyAxel> b lets apps take full advantage of the screen res, which is a good thing, but more rewriting for exisiting devs
Oct 22 16:34:00 <ka6sox> ShiftyAxel, is 2X enough for the likes of a Gnex?
Oct 22 17:03:46 <morphis> heyho
Oct 22 17:07:27 <ShiftyAxel> ka6sox: in my testing, 2x has been ideal
Oct 22 17:27:49 <ka6sox> ShiftyAxel, so you are talking about scaling the Launcher Icons?
Oct 22 17:27:57 <ka6sox> or is that a separate issue?
Oct 22 17:33:31 <ShiftyAxel> scaling the entire UI
Oct 22 17:33:42 <ShiftyAxel> save for webapps, those are the separate issur
Oct 22 17:33:50 <ShiftyAxel> *issue
Oct 22 18:09:05 * linuxjacques watches webkit-webos build really fast
Oct 22 18:10:16 <ka6sox> better builder?
Oct 22 18:11:15 <linuxjacques> ka6sox, my new work machine is a desktop i7
Oct 22 18:11:34 <linuxjacques> ka6sox, so four cores + HT @ 3.7GHz
Oct 22 18:11:43 <linuxjacques> and 16GiB DRAM
Oct 22 18:13:07 <ka6sox> that ought to make it fly
Oct 22 18:13:31 <linuxjacques> and it does, all four cores are in C0 state 100% of the time
Oct 22 18:13:53 <ka6sox> build baybee build
Oct 22 18:13:58 <linuxjacques> heh
Oct 22 18:20:59 <linuxjacques> diskwait :-\ I don;t see that on my laptop with SSD
Oct 22 18:23:49 <ka6sox> so you need a 120GB SSD for the desktop too!
Oct 22 18:25:56 <linuxjacques> yeah I am trying to get my supervisor to get me one
Oct 22 18:26:10 <linuxjacques> well, a 256GB one :-)
Oct 22 18:26:36 <linuxjacques> for evaluation purposes
Oct 22 18:27:43 <linuxjacques> we're evaluating this hardware for our new developer workstations
Oct 22 18:28:08 <linuxjacques> to replace the 5+ year old ones we have now (mine is > 6 years old)
Oct 22 18:28:31 <ShiftyAxel> just posted to the ML with regards to scaling webapps on the GNex, if anyone has any thoughts please feel free to chime in
Oct 22 18:28:42 <ShiftyAxel> morph is, ka6sox^^^
Oct 22 18:28:47 <ShiftyAxel> *morphis
Oct 22 18:28:53 <ShiftyAxel> blasted droid autocorrect
Oct 22 18:29:02 <linuxjacques> yeah I need to catch up on the ML
Oct 22 18:29:21 <linuxjacques> my build completed
Oct 22 18:37:16 <ShiftyAxel> linuxjacques: how long did that take? seems pretty speedy
Oct 22 18:38:04 <linuxjacques> ShiftyAxel, I don't have a good timing on it; I had started the build on Friday and stopped it before I left, then did "make update" and resumed it today
Oct 22 18:39:45 <linuxjacques> I'm running with PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 8" and BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "8"
Oct 22 18:43:01 <ka6sox> kewl
Oct 22 18:45:29 <linuxjacques> I've been running F17 on my laptop which I only use as a build server, but now trying to setup a workstation running F17, I'm having a hard time configuring cinnamon how I want it
Oct 22 18:45:34 <linuxjacques> might try xfce
Oct 22 18:45:38 <linuxjacques> or MATE
Oct 22 18:45:51 <linuxjacques> but I think MATE is no longer being developed :-\
Oct 22 18:55:26 <ShiftyAxel> I like XFCE for it's simpleness
Oct 22 18:55:36 <ShiftyAxel> never heard of MATE though..?
Oct 22 18:58:22 <ShiftyAxel> w00t, looks like we have a vote for B in the app scaling discussion
Oct 22 18:58:25 <linuxjacques> ShiftyAxel, it was done by the devs of the mint distro, before cinnamon - MATE is based on gnome2, cinnamon on gnome3
Oct 22 18:59:05 <ShiftyAxel> ah, mint. I remember mint
Oct 22 18:59:34 <ShiftyAxel> why would you want to use an older version of gnome though? stability/lightweightness?
Oct 22 18:59:37 <linuxjacques> heh heh, I've cleared 47GB of the 80GB SSD in one of our devel servers - dual xeon with 24GiB DRAM
Oct 22 19:00:12 <linuxjacques> ShiftyAxel, I like the underpinnings of gnome3, just not the shell / UI - I would _prefer_ a sane UI on top of gnome3
Oct 22 19:00:59 <linuxjacques> but even cinnamon is too gnome-shell-like for me
Oct 22 19:03:09 <linuxjacques> I don't want things flying around my screen. I use 16 workspaces and I like them to be static and a panel applet which shows a tiny preview of what's in each workspace - like I have in gnome2
Oct 22 19:03:39 <linuxjacques> I'd probably use > 16 workspaces if gnome2 didn't have a bug with using more
Oct 22 19:05:27 <ShiftyAxel> eheh, I've seen a lot of controversy over gnome shell
Oct 22 19:05:47 <ShiftyAxel> I'm using it right now, mainly because unity didn't allow me to specify custom trackpad gestures
Oct 22 19:07:12 <linuxjacques> also, I use terminals with pixel-based fonts. I cannot get gnome-terminal to look as good (with it's vector-based fonts)
Oct 22 19:07:24 <linuxjacques> but nobody cares about / develops terminals anymore
Oct 22 19:07:36 <linuxjacques> so my mrxvt is really rotting
Oct 22 19:07:54 <linuxjacques> even has rendering issues with lastest gnome / x-server
Oct 22 19:08:19 <linuxjacques> s/it's/its/
Oct 22 19:09:02 <linuxjacques> (and don;t get me started on the footprint of gnome-terminal)
Oct 22 19:11:02 <ShiftyAxel> so THAT'S why gnome terminal looks all smoothed
Oct 22 19:11:06 <ShiftyAxel> always wondered
Oct 22 19:11:26 <ShiftyAxel> bugger, I appear to have broken my OE build... I forsee hours of not being able to do anything now :|
Oct 22 19:11:42 <linuxjacques> ouch
Oct 22 19:12:19 <Geekpeter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1Isjgc0oX0s
Oct 22 19:12:21 <Geekpeter> ^
Oct 22 19:13:52 <ShiftyAxel> lolol Geekpeter :D
Oct 22 19:13:54 * ShiftyAxel fixes it
Oct 22 19:14:26 <ShiftyAxel> I'm using a rather fragile, hacky method to build luna fast atm, so if I just s///g something here.... something there...
Oct 22 19:14:57 * ka6sox makes ShiftyAxel regress things before committing :P
Oct 22 19:15:20 * ShiftyAxel has learned his lesson
Oct 22 19:15:32 <ShiftyAxel> though in this case it's more the build system itself that's in a bit of a state :p
Oct 22 19:20:25 <ShiftyAxel> yay, build system fixed
Oct 22 19:20:34 <ShiftyAxel> I don't have to glare at webkit for several hours :)
Oct 22 19:21:37 <Geekpeter> go forth and make......things
Oct 22 19:21:49 <ShiftyAxel> THINGS!
Oct 22 19:21:54 <linuxjacques> heh heh 16 cores + SSD now
Oct 22 19:21:58 <ShiftyAxel> Geekpeter: have you seen the latest tweetings?
Oct 22 19:22:10 * Geekpeter cranks up mcaw
Oct 22 19:22:45 <Geekpeter> why am i reaching for my pre3 when i have carbon sat in my face on teh tpad 12" away from my face
Oct 22 19:22:58 <Geekpeter> and graphite
Oct 22 19:23:03 <ShiftyAxel> force o' habit?
Oct 22 19:23:06 <Geekpeter> er and neo and erm others
Oct 22 19:23:08 <Geekpeter> could be :D
Oct 22 19:24:22 <Geekpeter> thats some blurry ass pictures, you got parkinsons ro a bad camera? :D
Oct 22 19:24:32 <ShiftyAxel> or BOTH? :D
Oct 22 19:24:36 <Geekpeter> :D
Oct 22 19:24:40 <ShiftyAxel> the latter, I was using my Pre3's camera
Oct 22 19:24:50 <Geekpeter> looks pimp tho
Oct 22 19:24:53 <ShiftyAxel> and I can confidently say that it's prettier in person
Oct 22 19:24:57 <Geekpeter> hybridization 4tw
Oct 22 19:25:34 <Geekpeter> you doing your UI stuff tailored to that phone, or inteligent/scaled to suit anything?
Oct 22 19:26:49 <ShiftyAxel> the latter, I see no point in causing more headaches in the long run :)
Oct 22 19:27:02 * Geekpeter feels warm and fuzzy
Oct 22 19:27:11 <ShiftyAxel> currently i've added 'UiScale' and 'TextScale' to luna.conf, so it can be done per-device
Oct 22 19:27:39 <ShiftyAxel> and you can scale both up and down, for those crazy loonies that want to port it to devices with a 320x240 screen
Oct 22 19:28:01 <Geekpeter> is that like what you could do to the phones?  i rmember scaling somethign i thought was web/browser only and ended up scaling my whole phone ui horribly
Oct 22 19:28:07 <ka6sox> ShiftyAxel, X and Y scaling separate or just a factor?
Oct 22 19:28:21 <Herrie> What's wrong with 320x400 on my Veer :P ?
Oct 22 19:28:26 <ShiftyAxel> just a factor, UI layout  should be done intelligently
Oct 22 19:28:29 <Herrie> Morning all ;)
Oct 22 19:28:33 <ShiftyAxel> morning Herrie
Oct 22 19:28:37 <ka6sox> morning Herrie
Oct 22 19:29:04 <Herrie> I have some spare time on my hands finally (not by choice unfortunately but well). Decided I should play around with some kernels etc
Oct 22 19:29:30 <Herrie> But getting stuck... Must be something with my CodeSourcery Toolchain that's not working properly... Anyone got a minute to have a look?
Oct 22 19:29:52 <ka6sox> Herrie, what target?
Oct 22 19:29:57 <ka6sox> and what setup?
Oct 22 19:30:16 <Herrie> Ubuntu 12.04 32 bits in VIrtualBox
Oct 22 19:30:25 <Herrie> On my Win7 x64 machine
Oct 22 19:30:47 <Herrie> Trying to see if I can get anything working on the MSM chipsets (Veer etc ;))
Oct 22 19:30:49 <ka6sox> what target are you trying to build for?
Oct 22 19:30:58 <ka6sox> oh
Oct 22 19:31:17 <Herrie> Got a few spares laying around doing nothing, so thought they might be useful for something ;)
Oct 22 19:31:36 <Herrie> Seems like there are 3.x kernels for MSM 7x30 around...
Oct 22 19:31:43 <Herrie> So might be possible to do something with them
Oct 22 19:32:10 <Herrie> THere are also quite some other phones out with the same chipset (HTC, Acer etc)
Oct 22 19:32:11 <ka6sox> you would need to find out how close some other MSM7030 device is to the Veer and start there...
Oct 22 19:32:33 <Herrie> THere seems to be a "default" msm7x30 kernel 3.0 version
Oct 22 19:32:44 <ka6sox> I'm not sure if any of them have hardware keyboards...
Oct 22 19:32:45 <Herrie> That should be able to boot I would say, but cannot get the kernel compiled
Oct 22 19:33:10 <ka6sox> Herrie, we have Uberkernel iirc for the Veer
Oct 22 19:33:14 <ka6sox> so start there.
Oct 22 19:33:20 <ka6sox> with build.git and kernels
Oct 22 19:33:38 <Herrie> We have for 2.1.2 but not for 2.2.4 ;)
Oct 22 19:33:59 <Herrie> Just have problem with the toolchain setup
Oct 22 19:34:03 <Herrie> Must be something silly
Oct 22 19:34:08 <Herrie> So cannot get the kernel to compile :(
Oct 22 19:34:13 <ka6sox> did you use the toolchains from build.git?
Oct 22 19:35:19 <Herrie> Got the arm-2010.09 from codesourcery
Oct 22 19:35:36 <ka6sox> I would start with something that is known...
Oct 22 19:35:52 <ka6sox> the build.git setup builds kernels correctly and doesnt' have issues
Oct 22 19:36:27 <Herrie> Ok where to find this one?
Oct 22 19:37:03 <ka6sox> https://github.com/webos-internals/build
Oct 22 19:37:04 <ka6sox> start there
Oct 22 19:38:08 <linuxjacques> I just installed MATE on F17 and so far it's looking good
Oct 22 19:40:11 <linuxjacques> well, kinda... a few issues
Oct 22 19:40:31 <Herrie> And then ?
Oct 22 19:40:32 <Herrie> OK, getting there.... Just do a git clone for https://github.com/webos-internals/build.git ?
Oct 22 19:40:37 <ka6sox> yes
Oct 22 19:40:50 <ka6sox> then look in the kernel makefiles
Oct 22 19:41:04 <ka6sox> I'd start with uberkernel as thats the most standard
Oct 22 19:41:16 <ka6sox> or you can use the recovery kernel for veer.
Oct 22 19:41:49 <ka6sox> dunno if dropping the config into the 3.0 sources and running make oldconfig will get you anywhere...
Oct 22 19:41:50 <Herrie> Uberkernel doesn't work
Oct 22 19:42:21 <ka6sox> I'd seriously look into finding another device that has a Android 3.x kernel and is close
Oct 22 19:42:41 <Herrie> Standard kernel seems to work
Oct 22 19:42:51 <Herrie> Looks like reference to palm.cdnetworks is down in uberkernal
Oct 22 19:43:10 <ka6sox> those were fixed months ago...
Oct 22 19:44:25 <ka6sox> Herrie, which recipe?
Oct 22 19:44:25 <Herrie> I still got it
Oct 22 19:44:49 <ka6sox> url of the makefile you are usng for uberkernel.
Oct 22 19:45:03 <Herrie> This one: https://github.com/webos-internals/build/blob/master/kernels/uber-kernel-veer/Makefile
Oct 22 19:45:21 <Herrie> Just did a git clone cd-ed into the uber-kernel-veer
Oct 22 19:45:25 <Herrie> And did make
Oct 22 19:47:03 <ka6sox> yup, support/kernel.mk has a wrong url...
Oct 22 19:47:53 <Herrie> That explains ;)
Oct 22 19:50:24 <ka6sox> Herrie, please repull and restart
Oct 22 19:50:33 <ShiftyAxel> w00t, just did my first test of UiScale=0.5
Oct 22 19:50:35 <ShiftyAxel> SUCCESS
Oct 22 19:50:40 <Geekpeter> \o/
Oct 22 19:50:54 <ShiftyAxel> where SUCCESS is equal to 'my UI is too small to effectively use in any meaningful way shape or form' :D
Oct 22 19:51:00 <ka6sox> vi kernel.mk
Oct 22 19:52:07 <Herrie> OK
Oct 22 19:52:48 <Herrie> Got downloads.help.palm.com in there now :)
Oct 22 19:53:34 <ka6sox> kk..good
Oct 22 19:53:54 <Herrie> Thnx for help
Oct 22 19:54:03 <Herrie> WIll have a look to see if I can get my other kernels to build now too
Oct 22 19:54:19 <ka6sox> GLHF!
Oct 22 19:55:28 <gianguido> morning people, a fast question about bb, can ask?
Oct 22 19:56:22 <ka6sox> ~asktoask
Oct 22 19:56:23 <WoceBot> asktoask is, like, Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help, if they can.
Oct 22 19:56:54 <gianguido> how can i make a clean build of webos-dev-image?
Oct 22 19:57:11 <gianguido> if i run again the build command, it simply repack the entire os
Oct 22 19:57:18 <ka6sox> right.
Oct 22 19:57:52 <ka6sox> there is a make target for cleaning up...
Oct 22 19:58:04 <ka6sox> you can blow away the sstate or the whole thing.
Oct 22 19:58:22 <gianguido> i've tried with -c cleansstate but nothing happends
Oct 22 19:59:35 <ka6sox> I'm old school...I blow away ~/tmp/deploy/images (or remove the one I want rebuilt)
Oct 22 19:59:56 <Herrie> Tom there are a few more references to palm.cdnetworks in the kernel.mk ;)
Oct 22 20:00:00 <ka6sox> what component do you want rebuilt...
Oct 22 20:00:11 <ka6sox> let me go look...sorry...
Oct 22 20:00:13 <Herrie> For example: http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/${WEBOS_VERSION}/linuxkernel-${KERNEL_VERSION}.patch.tgz
Oct 22 20:00:20 <Herrie> And there are about a dozen more ;)
Oct 22 20:00:32 <gianguido> ka6sox: all webos :D
Oct 22 20:00:51 <ka6sox> yes, I see that now...
Oct 22 20:01:00 <ka6sox> let me see about making this easier.
Oct 22 20:06:13 <ka6sox> Herrie, let me see if there are any other nasties...
Oct 22 20:09:19 <ka6sox> there are but not that would cause you issues
Oct 22 20:09:45 <Herrie> Ok lemme retry
Oct 22 20:11:59 <ka6sox> gianguido, sorry busy on an other issue
Oct 22 20:20:28 <Herrie> Tom, seems quite OK now, still have another issue
Oct 22 20:20:57 <ka6sox> okay...
Oct 22 20:21:22 <ka6sox> fixed all the links in build.git/support/*
Oct 22 20:21:31 <Herrie> Can't find default configuration "arch/arm/configs/shank_defconfig
Oct 22 20:21:52 <ka6sox> that should be in the patches file
Oct 22 20:48:17 <ShiftyAxel> hmm, there appears to be an issue with the GNex and notifications
Oct 22 20:48:28 <ShiftyAxel> as in, they make it crash and burn when you try to open them
Oct 22 20:50:03 <Geekpeter> if it actually makes it physically burn, that could be a nice "feature"
Oct 22 20:50:32 <ShiftyAxel> I like my GNex not on fire
Oct 22 20:51:13 <Geekpeter> could save your life 1 day when freezing cold in the south pole?
Oct 22 20:55:45 <ShiftyAxel> I have no plans to go to the south pole :p
Oct 22 20:57:38 <Geekpeter> i have no plans to die a wringly old man with a bursting case of piles and a faint smell of wee, but 1 day ittl happen anyways
Oct 22 20:57:44 <Geekpeter> wrinkly*
Oct 22 20:59:13 <Geekpeter> 1 minute your sat programmign the next best thing since sliced gravy, next thing you know your naked in the south pole with a GNex that doesnt combust into a warm fire and its game over
Oct 22 21:41:02 <linuxjacques> hmm, I went and talked to someone in another cubicle and the dual xeon server built webos-dev-image
Oct 22 23:49:02 <ShiftyAxel> ahoy, we have new screenies from the twitters!
Oct 22 23:49:07 <ShiftyAxel> https://twitter.com/shiftyaxel/status/260527811759054848
Oct 22 23:51:12 <linuxjacques> ShiftyAxel, nice!
Oct 22 23:51:19 <ShiftyAxel> and yet more
Oct 22 23:51:20 <ShiftyAxel> https://twitter.com/shiftyaxel/status/260528672862257153
Oct 22 23:51:38 <ShiftyAxel> not finished, but certainly en route
Oct 22 23:52:03 <linuxjacques> beeyoutiful!
Oct 22 23:52:06 <ShiftyAxel> :D
Oct 22 23:52:18 <ShiftyAxel> latest is available in the shiftyaxel/ui-scaling branch of luna-sysmgr
Oct 22 23:52:36 <ShiftyAxel> i'm just building it now, but it's going to take until tomorrow because I had to clean my build env
Oct 22 23:53:09 <linuxjacques> need moar power!
Oct 22 23:53:21 <ShiftyAxel> so, so true
Oct 22 23:55:21 <ShiftyAxel> lessons of the day: pointers can SUCK IT and the launcher code (aka dimensionsUi) is big, scary and not at all like the rest of luna
Oct 23 00:02:29 <ka6sox> uh oh.
Oct 23 00:19:15 <KyleMaas> ShiftyAxel: One thing I don't at all understand is how there's a smart point system right there in the code and it's almost never used.  It's a nice system, too.
Oct 23 00:19:51 <KyleMaas> Makes me wonder if it was added after most of the code was already written, though it would be relatively trivial to convert almost all of the pointers in the system to use it.
Oct 23 00:20:22 <ka6sox> KyleMaas, is this all documented?
Oct 23 00:20:50 <KyleMaas> ka6sox: http://kylemaas.github.com/LunaSysMgr/classsptr.htm
Oct 23 00:21:06 <ka6sox> KyleMaas, thanks!
Oct 23 00:22:54 <KyleMaas> It only *works* if it's pointing to an object that derives from RefCounted, though it may compile correctly if you use it on something else.
Oct 23 00:23:39 <KyleMaas> However, all you have to do to make an object compatible with it is derive it from RefCounted through multiple inheritance.  So, like I said, it takes almost no effort at all to switch it over.
Oct 23 00:24:16 <KyleMaas> You can see the inheritance tree for RefCounted-compatible objects here: http://kylemaas.github.com/LunaSysMgr/classRefCounted.htm
Oct 23 00:29:40 <ka6sox> I'd hate to not have any documentation  for this...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 23 03:00:00 2012