**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 11 02:59:58 2014
Dec 11 07:30:53 <morphis> DougReeder: I first thought it would be ok with just adding those feeds and keep them disabled but ka6sox is right, that can end up problematic for the project if we get any legal issues with this
Dec 11 07:31:32 <DougReeder> Can you give me more detail on that?
Dec 11 07:31:40 <morphis> as it brings a threat into the system we can't control and as we are all no lawyers we can't really judge what even the addition of disabled feeds can give us
Dec 11 07:32:20 <ka6sox> morphis, the issue is that because of the way that Preware is staged into the image the postinst script doesn't get run
Dec 11 07:32:33 <ka6sox> so the normal way of adding feeds to prewar doesn't work.
Dec 11 07:32:41 <morphis> ka6sox: no, that is not true
Dec 11 07:32:47 <ka6sox> well...
Dec 11 07:32:55 <morphis> the postinst script is run but we moved it into OE
Dec 11 07:33:03 <morphis> so we don't use the same from the repository
Dec 11 07:33:37 <ka6sox> okay what DougReeder needs is a way to be able to add this repos like original Preware did.
Dec 11 07:33:45 <morphis> https://github.com/webOS-ports/meta-webos-ports/blob/master/recipes-webos/services/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.bb#L20
Dec 11 07:33:45 <ka6sox> so he doesn't hardcode them into ipkgservice
Dec 11 07:34:20 <morphis> ka6sox: you mean "doesn't hardcode" means putting them into the postinst script?
Dec 11 07:37:19 <ka6sox> putting them into that list is fine.
Dec 11 07:37:52 <ka6sox> i.e. adding them as disabled feeds.
Dec 11 07:39:08 <ka6sox> DougReeder, I apologize…now that I understand I realize that is the right place...
Dec 11 07:39:28 <ka6sox> but its not like what I'm used to so I was misteaken
Dec 11 07:39:57 <ka6sox> however we should still designate them as disabled when installed.
Dec 11 07:40:02 * DougReeder shrugs “we should have some mechnism for people to install apps easily"
Dec 11 07:40:41 <EricBlade> whaaaaaaaat? that's crazy talk.
Dec 11 07:45:28 <DougReeder> I believe the PRs at https://github.com/webOS-ports/meta-webos-ports/pull/77 and https://github.com/webOS-ports/preware/pull/15 address all the concens people have raised.
Dec 11 07:47:31 <morphis> :)
Dec 11 07:48:05 <morphis> DougReeder: in https://github.com/webOS-ports/meta-webos-ports/pull/77/files: what makes the feeds being disabled?
Dec 11 07:48:55 <DougReeder> The .disabled file extension.
Dec 11 07:49:13 <morphis> ah right
Dec 11 07:49:17 <morphis> sorry, too early
Dec 11 07:51:49 <morphis> DougReeder: ok, let me give this a test run on the weekend
Dec 11 07:52:12 * DougReeder nods
Dec 11 07:55:43 <morphis> DougReeder: you started to work on the contacts app too, right?
Dec 11 07:56:08 <DougReeder> Yes, I’m working on the “Add a Contact” feature
Dec 11 07:56:34 <morphis> so also "Edit a contact"?
Dec 11 07:57:04 <DougReeder> *Editing* a contact should pobably wait until we get PalmBus subscriptions working (and thus, DB8 watches working)
Dec 11 07:57:29 <DougReeder> Without watches, contacts can be out-of date.
Dec 11 07:57:34 <morphis> ok
Dec 11 07:57:41 <morphis> so that is something we should fix soon
Dec 11 07:57:55 <DougReeder> I would very much appreciate that.
Dec 11 07:58:15 <morphis> raised it's priority
Dec 11 07:58:26 <DougReeder> Thank you.
Dec 11 07:58:41 <morphis> DougReeder: btw. what do you think would it mean to bring mochi into the contacts app?
Dec 11 07:59:13 <DougReeder> Mmmm, ice cream. :-)
Dec 11 07:59:52 <DougReeder> What aspect of mochi were you thinking of?
Dec 11 08:00:03 <morphis> as replacement for onyx
Dec 11 08:00:26 <morphis> not sure how much work it is
Dec 11 08:00:55 <DougReeder> So far as I can tell, only mockups were produced.
Dec 11 08:01:31 <DougReeder> … and I don’t know that any Mochi Controls exist.
Dec 11 08:02:15 <morphis> DougReeder: they exist
Dec 11 08:02:15 <DougReeder> Oh, wait there’s a GitHub repo
Dec 11 08:02:19 <morphis> right
Dec 11 08:02:36 <DougReeder> Hmmm “work-in-progress”
Dec 11 08:02:47 <morphis> DougReeder: yeah, Herrie and ka6sox are the maintainers
Dec 11 08:02:55 <morphis> so unless we work on it nobody else will do
Dec 11 08:04:00 <morphis> DougReeder: if it's just a simple search&replace for the app it would be nice to have a prototype app running with mochi instead of onyx
Dec 11 08:04:45 <DougReeder> Hmmm, that adds risk, since it’s not immediately clear which Controls are finished.
Dec 11 08:05:33 <DougReeder> We could timebox some work.
Dec 11 08:06:03 <DougReeder> We would certainly be adding work to out plate, to finish the remaining controls.
Dec 11 08:06:15 <morphis> right
Dec 11 08:06:30 <morphis> but we need to start with that soon if we really want it to happen
Dec 11 08:06:44 <morphis> and I thought as the contacts app is still small it might be a good place to start
Dec 11 08:07:27 <DougReeder> Hmmm, https://github.com/enyojs/mochi/wiki/Mochi-Designs has samples
Dec 11 08:07:55 <morphis> yeah
Dec 11 08:11:22 <DougReeder> It’s worth a try.  Onyx does tend to leave apps coming out battleship-gray. :-S
Dec 11 08:14:23 <morphis> yeah
Dec 11 08:15:21 <DougReeder> None of the sample are working for me, in FF Safari or Chrome
Dec 11 08:18:03 <DougReeder> Also, we’d need to *maintain* it ourselves.
Dec 11 08:19:47 <DougReeder> I’m not sure the graphics are grounded in operations that are easy in a web browser.
Dec 11 08:21:12 <morphis> DougReeder: you tried the online samples?
Dec 11 08:21:37 <DougReeder> Can’t get them to run, get “Uncaught TypeError: undefined is not a function”
Dec 11 08:23:06 <morphis> they seem to be broken for quite some time
Dec 11 08:23:13 <morphis> but locally it should work
Dec 11 08:23:30 <DougReeder> I can certainly try them out.
Dec 11 08:23:53 <DougReeder> Visual appeal is not to be sciffed at.
Dec 11 08:24:29 <DougReeder> I’d like to see more real innovation, like 10GUI.
Dec 11 08:24:56 <DougReeder> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2F10gui.com%2Fvideo%2F&ei=xFSJVJ2oHcutyATr5ICoCg&usg=AFQjCNHikoIj2ctheJqyCTgfrZOlN77v5w&bvm=bv.81456516,d.aWw if you haven’t seen it.
Dec 11 08:28:35 <Garfonso> morning
Dec 11 08:29:59 <morphis> Garfonso: morning
Dec 11 08:32:51 <morphis> Garfonso: any news on the chatthreader?
Dec 11 08:33:21 <morphis> I have initial SMS work pending which would the produce com.palm.message objects which needs to be threaded
Dec 11 08:35:51 <Garfonso> ok. great. :)
Dec 11 08:38:16 <Garfonso> I'll see if I can finish an inital version of chatthreader today.
Dec 11 08:40:19 <morphis> great
Dec 11 13:37:13 <EricBlade> DougReeder: the 10gui video states a definite problem quite well, in that the mouse is just a single point of input, it's rather limiting when compared to what we came from (keyboard) .. but then it suggests replacing it with a system that turns BOTH your hands into single points of input.
Dec 11 16:15:50 <DougReeder> EricBlade , I’m not sure how well 10GUI would work in real life, but it is an example of breaking out of the WIMP paradigm.
Dec 11 16:43:32 <DougReeder> I hope we never have desktop-style windows in LuneOS, but displaying two cards on the screen, each taking up half, is certainly conceivable.
Dec 11 16:43:56 <DougReeder> With consistent multifinger gestures to switch things around.
Dec 11 16:49:07 <DougReeder> In the nearer-term, it would be useful to have more flexible layout than CollapsingArranger to work with.
Dec 11 16:50:06 <DougReeder> In particular, it would be useful to have something similar to CollapsingArranger that doesn’t minimize the panels to the left of the active one.
Dec 11 16:51:00 <DougReeder> And we could use a splitter arranger that let the user reallocate space between two panels.
Dec 11 17:02:16 <DougReeder> Something like the UI improvements for “Eel”
Dec 11 17:14:42 <DougReeder> Now, collapsible dividers in a list THAT’s UI innovation: http://enyojs.com/mochi/Mochi%20lists%20wireframes.pdf
Dec 11 17:21:08 <DougReeder> Enyo Lists already support swipable items - we should make more use of that. Swipe can bring in several additional controls, rather like a context menu.
Dec 11 17:22:19 <DougReeder> I wonder if we could have a system-level option to control what long-tap (or double-finger tap) does.
Dec 11 17:22:57 <DougReeder> And we should think about whether left-swipe does something different from right-swipe.
Dec 11 17:23:34 <DougReeder> That would make for a very expressive interface, but it would be hard to discover it.
Dec 11 17:26:47 <DougReeder> The Swipable-Reorderable List sample (http://enyojs.com/sampler/latest/lib/layout/list/samples/ListLanguagesSample.html) is a bit confusing; you may find Serene Notes (http://searchablenotes.hominidsoftware.com/) a bit easier to undersand, because it’s actually doing something.
Dec 11 17:28:05 <DougReeder> And Serene Notes maps double-click to swipe, because double-click is much easier with a mouse.
Dec 11 17:34:22 <DougReeder> We should probably establish a UI guideline that swiping never does anything destructive without confirmation.
Dec 11 17:34:59 <DougReeder> …and thing in terms of inherently reversible actions like archiving instead of deleting.
Dec 11 17:35:09 <DougReeder> s/thing/think
Dec 11 17:53:06 <DougReeder> Anthing stored in DB8 should be conceptualized as “throwing in the trash” rather than deleting, with appropriate access to the trash.  DB8 doesn’t actually delete things for a while.
Dec 11 18:03:28 <JaMa> anyone else seeing phonesim failing sometimes with Makefile:963: recipe for target 'src/moc_phonesim.cpp' failed ?
Dec 11 21:11:13 <morphis> JaMa: not yet
Dec 12 01:05:22 <Cage1___> http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/11/7376753/jollas-13000-backers-raised-1-8-million-to-build-a-tablet
Dec 12 02:38:43 <DougReeder_> Enyo 2.5.1 is out, and may ease development of our data-driven apps.
Dec 12 02:39:04 <DougReeder_> The docs are lots faster.
Dec 12 02:41:27 <DougReeder_> I hope there's nothing that clashes with Mochi.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 12 02:59:59 2014