**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 20 02:59:59 2015 Mar 20 05:32:41 dwc-: You need to have Android 4.2.2 on it Mar 20 05:33:18 If you have anything else that might explain why your wifi doesn't work. We're looking into upgrading to 4.4.x but that hasn't been completed yet Mar 20 07:49:55 morphis: Has any luck with those TP4G ofono logs? Mar 20 12:25:42 Herrie: sorry, didn't had time yet Mar 20 12:29:04 Herrie: I almost won a Nexus 4 on eBay yesterday. Mar 20 12:44:17 choorp: you won one? Mar 20 12:44:40 you mean you won the action? Mar 20 12:46:56 Almost. Outbid at the last second and couldn't get a new bid in. :( Mar 20 12:47:48 Last-minute sniping is why I quit bidding on ebay. Mar 20 12:50:09 Yea, I very rarely bid on items anymore. I stick with the Buy it Now listings and Swappa. Mar 20 12:50:22 yeah Buy it Now is one of the better things Mar 20 12:50:41 I know people who are really good in winning auctions but that isn't worth my time :) Mar 20 12:51:06 if I pay +/- a few bugs it doesn't matter for me Mar 20 12:51:27 worth to spend in regard for the time I would loose the other way Mar 20 12:52:04 Herrie: "The new webappmgr dashboard is not an improvement for Dash Weather app" what do you mean with that? Mar 20 12:52:16 I'm still keeping my eye out for a Nexus 4 though. I could use a side project to supplement my FirefoxOS stuff. Mar 20 12:53:20 choorp: what are you doing for FirefoxOS? Mar 20 12:53:35 I read a paper on allocating network resources, where bids were submitted simultaneously, and the highest bidder got the resource at the second-highest bidder’s price. Sounded very efficient, but efiiciency is not what draws people to ebay. Mar 20 12:54:08 Just apps and stuff. Nothing with the OS yet, although that does seem like it could be fun. Mar 20 12:55:59 choorp: basically FirefoxOS apps should be able to run on LuneOS too Mar 20 12:56:10 if you can make the use of their private APIs optional Mar 20 12:56:40 If you’re interested, you could try my Serene Notes: https://marketplace.firefox.com/app/searchable-memos?src=search Mar 20 12:57:08 is that with enyo? Mar 20 12:57:29 morphis: Yep, I've got a couple apps working on both platforms with very little changes. Mar 20 12:57:37 It won’t run under LuneOS until Indexed DB trickles down to our version of webkit. Mar 20 12:57:55 choorp: nice Mar 20 12:58:17 DougReeder: so FirefoxOS has a different version? Mar 20 12:58:32 thought the interface would be an official API Mar 20 12:58:36 Firefox OS doesn’t use webit at all. Mar 20 12:58:51 webit? Mar 20 12:58:53 THey have an independent implementation. Mar 20 12:58:58 DougReeder: My one app uses indexedDB and it somewhat works on LuneOS Mar 20 12:59:03 s/webit/webkit/ Mar 20 12:59:27 At least, it doesn't crash when creating the db at startup like it does on webOS 2.2.4. heh Mar 20 13:03:34 DougReeder: I'll give it a try later today. I didn't bring my Flame to work with me today. Mar 20 13:03:56 Hmm, my app doesn’t throw errors, but it doesn’t persist data, either. Mar 20 13:04:32 If you want to try my app, the webapp version is at http://searchablenotes.hominidsoftware.com/ Mar 20 13:04:59 Hmm. I didn't get to the point where I could add data to the db due to some other issues. Mar 20 13:05:31 Once I find a Nexus 4, I'll look into it more. Mar 20 13:15:32 morphis: OK no worries. Mar 20 13:18:02 With update to webappmgr the dashboard in Choorp's Dash Weather app looks actually worse ;) Mar 20 13:21:16 why? Mar 20 13:21:23 is it too small? Mar 20 13:21:55 Check the irc log I posted the comparison Mar 20 13:22:08 Initially bottom was cut off now it's all mixed up Mar 20 13:22:35 Could be because it needs adjusting in the app Mar 20 13:22:37 basically the latest change doesn't do anything different then before if you don't set the metrics field Mar 20 13:22:51 Well seems it does :P Mar 20 13:22:59 Or maybe I need to check LNC Mar 20 13:23:10 Could be I need to push different LNC then Mar 20 13:23:30 depends on the height the app sets for the dashboard panel Mar 20 13:23:41 Well the app didn't change Mar 20 13:23:45 Maybe it's LNC Mar 20 13:24:32 morphis: Ah, I see. I'll update the app to define the height. Mar 20 13:25:03 Because I was testing Tofe's latest LNC before flashing Mar 20 13:25:05 choorp: however in LuneOS we have the problem that we're dealing with multiple screen sizes Mar 20 13:25:40 choorp: that is why we added https://bpaste.net/show/07c2901338bc Mar 20 13:26:11 when you define metrics: units it will use a device dependent grid unit and multiply it with the number of units you specify Mar 20 13:26:17 works pretty well Mar 20 13:27:02 It looks like our version of WebKit implements the IndexedDB API, but deletes all data when the browser is relaunched. Mar 20 13:27:56 DougReeder: the browser app or a webapp? Mar 20 13:28:05 Browser. Mar 20 13:28:16 possible Mar 20 13:28:40 Could it be that, when deleting temporary files, it also deletes IndexedDB files by mistake? Mar 20 13:30:28 DougReeder: we're not actively deleting anything, however the data is stored under a id and it's possible that the browser uses a different one each time because nobody ever sets it Mar 20 13:30:33 need to check that Mar 20 13:30:57 …and might that be our code, rather than something in the upstream webkit? Mar 20 13:33:29 I think so Mar 20 13:36:23 morphis: Interesting. Maybe I can convince Herrie to look into it for me since I don't have a device? :) Mar 20 13:36:48 choorp: yeah Mar 20 13:37:00 a phone-sized emulator would be nice, btw. :P Mar 20 13:37:44 Is the code on your choorp gh up to date? Mar 20 13:41:04 Herrie|Veer: No, it's pretty old actually. Mar 20 13:42:23 I can get the newest code up on there sometime this weekend though. Mar 20 13:43:36 choorp: yeah, should be not that much work to add Mar 20 13:52:28 Hello again, I got my 2012 Nexus today (currently charging) and would - first of all - see a running version of LuneOS, but the download link is down and the link mentioned in the forum from yannik56 seems to be not available (or I don't understand enough french language...). Is it somehow possible to get the old version? Thanks in advance. Mar 20 13:54:26 sewziq: that will be hard Mar 20 13:54:33 I think we dropped all those images some time ago Mar 20 13:54:38 sewziq: Unfortunately the last working image was accidentally deleted when we did some server cleanup... Mar 20 13:55:23 Oh - don't matter, I ask again in the forum, maybe yannik56 could serve a new link. Mar 20 13:59:01 If you get it let us know :) Mar 20 14:00:51 of course! :-) Mar 20 14:06:59 what I determined yesterday, that the build of a version takes a lot of time... :-) sadly I'm not in my office until monday. There I have currently the possibility to use a relative high-powered VM for building... don't think that my small i3 Laptop would finish the job before the weekend ends ;-) Mar 20 14:17:45 It's quite long... Especially the webkit building/linking Mar 20 14:18:00 And the downloading of all the info to build the image as well Mar 20 14:18:19 So a quick connection, lots of ram and cpu power sure help :) Mar 20 14:39:00 DougReeder: https://bpaste.net/show/cfa8650fbe38 Mar 20 14:39:24 so basically it should work Mar 20 14:39:29 but the local is wrong Mar 20 14:42:57 s/local/path/ Mar 20 14:47:57 DougReeder: will push a fix for that later Mar 20 16:09:00 Component "lxc" failed to build due to not being able to build docs. Mar 20 16:35:57 had to create builds/webos-ports-env/webos-ports/tmp-glibc/work/armv7a-vfp-neo-webos-linux-gnueabi/lxc/1.0.1-r0/build/doc/api/Doxyfile Mar 20 16:43:02 I packaged Serene Notes and when I run it on my N4, it works fine (so the Indexed DB API is working), but does not save data between runs. Mar 20 16:43:29 So, morphis, hopefully your fix will fix both the browser and packaged apps. Mar 20 16:44:17 DougReeder: let me try that Mar 20 16:44:19 for packaged apps it should work Mar 20 16:44:21 DougReeder: can you send me the ipk? Mar 20 16:44:31 sure; how? Mar 20 17:16:22 y u no use db8? :-D Mar 20 17:17:24 (just kidding, i realize that there's really no good use for a web app to bother with db8 now that there's no backup feature) Mar 20 17:17:45 EricBlade: DB8 is webOS specific right? Mar 20 17:17:48 unless you need to work with other apps Mar 20 17:21:09 Herrie|Veer: oh... webos doesn't replace the android that's on there? Mar 20 17:21:24 thanks, that would explain it Mar 20 17:21:49 Mar 20 17:32:11 EricBlade, if you were asking about why my app uses IndexedDB, it was written for Firefox OS. It also runs under Tizen. Mar 20 17:32:33 morphis: Ordered a Oneplus One last night. Interested in getting LuneOS running on it. Possibly as a dualboot w/ Sailfish OS, if that is possible. Mar 20 17:36:10 morphis: thoughts? Mar 20 17:36:21 tizen o.o traitor. :-) Mar 20 17:37:20 EricBlade: How is making something that works on Tizen more traitorous than FirefoxOS? Mar 20 17:37:58 because Samsung Mar 20 17:38:24 dwc-: We use CyanogenMod 10.1 as a basis and that's based on 4.2.2. We overwrite Android but rely on the firmware versions for components that are supplied with 4.2.2 Mar 20 17:39:15 EricBlade: and...? Mar 20 17:39:49 LG and Samsung are arch enemies :P Mar 20 17:39:59 EricBlade works for LG :P Mar 20 17:40:17 Like Huawei and ZTE :P Mar 20 17:40:19 Well, LG can suck it until they are nicer with OpenWebOS Mar 20 17:40:32 Samsung is much more open w/ the Enlightenment development Mar 20 17:40:33 :( Mar 20 17:41:01 I can't even make apps for my TV without having to sign them thanks to LG's stupid policies. Mar 20 17:42:37 i'm just going to blame that on other companies Mar 20 17:42:39 :-) Mar 20 17:42:56 herrie: got it, that totally makes sense. Mar 20 17:43:00 If a body of quality HTML5 apps that run on different platforms grows up, the OSs can compete on merit. Or serve different users. Mar 20 17:43:12 EricBlade: That's just shifting the blame. Palm and HP were much more open w/ webOS Mar 20 17:43:13 +1 Mar 20 17:45:32 GodGinrai: i can't go into a lot of detail, but there are other companies that would not work with a more open system. Mar 20 17:45:59 EricBlade: then you give them a way to close their stuff without closing everything off. Mar 20 17:46:29 What made webOS so great was the community being able to solve all of the problems Mar 20 17:46:36 or deeply customize it Mar 20 17:47:10 My webOS TV, on the other hand, is a *great* interface, w/ no apps, and no way to customize it. Mar 20 17:47:19 i'm not going into any more detail than what i've already said :P Mar 20 17:48:53 ^ and this is exactly the problem. Mar 20 17:49:09 LG won't tell us their reasons for their bad decisions, and ban you guys for saying them either. Mar 20 17:49:23 the LG App Store is worse off than Palm's app store was Mar 20 17:50:04 Tofe: you have any idea how to fix the keyboard for the touchpad? Mar 20 17:51:10 I'm not banned, but I'm not personally willing to talk about things that I'm not positive are ok to discuss, especially inasmuch as they relate to other places as well. Mar 20 17:54:09 bummer. I put factory 4.4.2 on this nexus4 and then the nighly and the wifi and swipedown menus still don't work. Mar 20 17:54:25 oh well, have to pass the nexus4 off at lunch, better put android back on it again Mar 20 17:56:22 EricBlade: Ambiguity on whether you can speak about important subjects isn't much better. Mar 20 17:58:32 GodGinrai: unless someone is in a PR/marketing/public role, I wouldn't expect them to know for sure or have access to that sort of info Mar 20 17:59:05 EricBlade: webOS on my Pre3 was so well-supported by the community that I had no problem switching to it from Android, and since switching back to Android, I have been constantly missing it. If I were to switch TVs to non-webOS, I would miss the nice menu and the way it handles alternate inputs, but that would be it. Mar 20 18:00:36 EricBlade: App-wise, I wouldn't give a damn. And as for the remote? I'd probably be happy to have something with media buttons (play, pause, FF, and rew) Mar 20 18:01:07 EricBlade: LG doesn't even tell us what the updates our TV gets *do*. Mar 20 18:01:48 your tv gets more updates than my pre2/pre3 do :( Mar 20 18:02:46 morphis: oh, I forgot about that. But now I have a build, so I just have to remove my qpa patch and I'll be able to work on it Mar 20 18:02:54 I suspect a window mask misplacement Mar 20 18:02:56 These are criticisms that I would whole heartedly encourage you to present to an official LG support channel (not an LG engineer :-) ), without trying to frame them in a way that compares them to the old webOS. Mar 20 18:02:57 ok Mar 20 18:05:11 dwc-: that's because they are not supported *anymore*. And "more updates" doesn't mean anything if you don't know what they do. Mar 20 18:05:42 I'd bet your tv has gotten more updates than my pre2 and pre3 ever did combined.... Mar 20 18:05:51 (the number is not that high!) Mar 20 18:06:12 EricBlade: Tell me who I should speak to in the company that I don't call through the 800 number, and I am willing to discuss it with them in detail. Mar 20 18:07:20 dwc-: as I said, "more" is not always "better". Many of these updates, people have barely noticed any changes. And since they don't tell us what the changes are, we don't know exactly what they are. Mar 20 18:07:57 dwc-: and by leaving the system open, the community was able to provide their own "updates" through patches, which is completely impossible to do on the TV Mar 20 18:08:02 For developer concerns, I'd probably start with the developer.lge.com forum Mar 20 18:08:18 morphis: ophonod complain each second about missing RILD, shouldn't we remove ophonod from tenderloin build ? Mar 20 18:08:18 would you be happier if they just wrote a generic "fix bugs and performance enhancements" ? Mar 20 18:08:23 For user concerns, I'd start with the 800 number. Mar 20 18:08:39 Tofe: no, we should more configure it to ignore the ril modem plugin Mar 20 18:08:46 ok Mar 20 18:08:48 with supplying -P ril Mar 20 18:09:22 when you buy/use a consumer product, that is the kind of support you get Mar 20 18:11:52 dwc-: No, it isn't. Plenty of companies are more open with their updates. Sony can do it, why can't LG? Mar 20 18:11:55 dwc-: https://esupport.sony.com/US/p/swu-download.pl?upd_id=6533&mdl=KDL52V5100 Mar 20 18:17:21 EricBlade: Dealing with LG's user support with regards to the Google TV Android 4.0 update has shown me that they are *not* the people to speak to in order to get your voice heard. If you can tell me a particular person, I will speak to them. Otherwise, what you are doing is equivalent to sending me on a wild goose chase. Mar 20 18:23:27 morphis: I think the window mask has the wrong orientation Mar 20 18:24:28 GodGinrai: i'll try to ping some people and see what i can come up with. i'm personally quite far insulated / separated from those sorts of things, but i'll do what i can. Mar 20 18:24:29 and the reason why it behaves differently between QML apps and Enyo apps is I think because the focus management is slightly different Mar 20 18:24:41 EricBlade: thanks. Mar 20 18:25:50 I do want to see great things happen, for users and developers, and for the company, but everything is a very long and slow process. :-) Mar 20 18:26:43 EricBlade, what was the final result/fix for your TP and the .db full issue? Mar 20 18:26:58 someone reported same issue on a pre3 Mar 20 18:27:02 whoops..pre2 Mar 20 18:30:57 ka6sox: it reset when i rebooted.. Mar 20 18:31:05 and so it restored from backup Mar 20 18:33:30 any idea why the db was full? Mar 20 18:34:34 no clue. /var/db had 40-ish files in it titled (somenumber).log that were a couple MB each, could just be that after months of piling up data, the database was full Mar 20 18:35:07 too many email accounts, or too long of a save time on them? messaging, and others? i don't know Mar 20 18:35:17 since resetting, though, i only have 2 of those files, at 2MB Mar 20 18:36:33 the funny bit is that this happened after Network Services were cut off…and to both 3.x and 2.x devices Mar 20 18:36:46 but they aren't Mar 20 18:37:12 or at least weren't as of when i restored Mar 20 18:47:49 kk Mar 20 18:51:35 do you know what the diff is between main/ and temp/ ? Mar 20 18:51:46 I hve a 43.4MB main an da 75.4M temp Mar 20 18:55:10 /etc/event.d/tempdb has a commented out rm -r of /var/db/temp ... Mar 20 18:56:03 morphis: https://github.com/webOS-ports/webos-keyboard/pull/17 Mar 20 19:17:24 dwc-: com.palm.tempdb is supposedly reset on a reboot. that may be handled by mojodb-luna, rather than via that script... Mar 20 19:18:22 dwc-: the weird thing, i dug through all of db8 source and couldn't seem to figure out what the .log files were. maybe it was a feature that didn't make it to open source Mar 20 19:19:39 I assumed the .log files are BDB logs Mar 20 19:20:53 oddly, I just ran luna-send -n 1 luna://com.palm.db/compact {} and it nuked the 3 of left me with 1, but my main/ and temp/ are still the same size... I wonder if it means it's just somehow gotten a big load of junk in there Mar 20 19:21:32 (I did this by stopping mojodb, mv'ing temp to /media/cryptofs, symlinking, and restarting mojodb) Mar 20 19:22:02 temp/ must not be getting cleaned out though, since the _version file is from 2010 Mar 20 19:22:30 I'm not keen on rebooting in this state, since I'm guessing /media/cryptofs won't be mounted yet when mojodb comes up Mar 20 19:22:33 it might delete al lthe data in it, without destroying the files Mar 20 19:22:44 true Mar 20 19:25:04 the palm calendar reminder service seems unhappy about the db though... it's spamming the logs so fast /var/log/messages is rotating every minute or so Mar 20 19:29:54 yeah.. i tried moving the files off and restarting mojodb, and that didn't work. so i put them back, but then they wouldn't fit because in the meantime more data had been written.. so.. i just let it reboot/reset Mar 20 19:31:47 my best guess is that when prepping for the cloud services going away, I added google contacts sync to 2 accounts (neither of which worked btw) and it kept adding crap in there Mar 20 19:32:38 luna-send -a com.palm.configurator -f -n 1 luna://com.palm.db/purge '{}' seems to have freed up some space though Mar 20 19:32:49 2015-03-20T19:30:36.452056Z [226510] palm-webos user.notice mojodb-luna[11935]: [db.mojodb] purging objects deleted more than 14 days ago... Mar 20 19:32:53 2015-03-20T19:30:48.211822Z [226522] palm-webos user.notice mojodb-luna[11935]: [db.mojodb] purged 7001 objects Mar 20 19:33:18 deleted... 7mb of stuff out of main, it might actually fit on /var/db again Mar 20 19:33:43 I should probably back up this phone before rebooting.... Mar 20 19:34:35 oh, i didn't see /purge. i tried to use /internal/scheduledPurge or something like that, but it didn't do squat for me Mar 20 19:35:20 found it here -- http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-discussion-lounge/328275-database-error-3991-db-inconsistent-index.html Mar 20 20:50:39 hooray my build is complete Mar 20 20:50:56 now i just need the touchpad that i want to put it on. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 21 02:59:59 2015